Blow this team up already!

[hotpaws]

… or play out the year hoping to change their mind. Worse case you choose your own destination as a UFA.

worse case is they stop trying to build a 2nd line around him and use him as the bottom 6 winger he is with little pp time and he puts up 30ish pts at best and then has to take a deal to the small group of teams that'll offer one

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

If it leaks out that he was using his NMC to stay after this fiasco of a series (unless something drastic changes)....I wouldn't want to be him walking around this city. He cares about his image...so much so..that when Jeff O'Neill went on a rant about his asking price during his holdout...he signed shortly afterwards and then had to record himself saying what this city means to him blah blah.

If he forced the team to keep him and then bolted as a UFA....man...I really wouldn't plan on living in this city after I retired...

I'm not sure there is a need for anything drastic.

It's as simple as this; Marner can only get 7 years in UFA or 8 years if he signs with a team beforehand. If the Leafs aren't offering it, he'll need to agree to be traded.

Marner's salary is going to be huge. I wouldn't want to give up a full year of 12.5M pay by going to UFA

 

[ACC1224]

Basically it would be doing the team version of what Matthew Tkachuk did to the flames. Not asking him to waive but making it clear to him and media they are not resigning.

Anyway all moot as you say maybe they decide to keep him.

Tkachuk wanted out though and didn't have a NMC.

 

[hotpaws]

One reason a team like Boston or a team like Vegas has been able to be so successful for so long is by having the balls to move on from good or even great players

Toronto hasn’t had that kind of courage. Yet

Vegas does it right , they move on from players when their play slides , we do back flips to find reasons why not to move on from them .

 

[ACC1224]

I'm not sure there is a need for anything drastic.

It's as simple as this; Marner can only get 7 years in UFA or 8 years if he signs with a team beforehand. If the Leafs aren't offering it, he'll need to agree to be traded.

Marner's salary is going to be huge. I wouldn't want to give up a full year of 12.5M pay by going to UFA

7 or 8 years would be very low priority on the list.

 

[CincoHolio]

I think the only way Marner get's a raise on his current salary is if he goes to a bottom feeder team starved for star power.

It's not an automatic that he makes more on his next contract..."just because". I've yet to see any reasons why he should be paid more than what he is right now - which is already overpaid.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

7 or 8 years would be very low priority on the list.

I don't agree. An extra year of 12.5M is an enormous amount of money to risk at your age 34 season.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't agree. An extra year of 12.5M is an enormous amount of money to risk at your age 34 season.

I don't think it's enough to make him leave town when he's already made an enormous amount.
Matthews wasn't to worried about taking a shorter term.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

There is no reason at all to believe that is the case.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

[Stephen]

This!

Tavares isn't going anywhere, can be useful in mentoring some younger players, and will likely sign for cheap to stay here.

I don’t really want to see any young player model their professional game, demeanor and approach on JT’s example, do you? That brand of corporate leadership is not what I’m looking for in the next generation.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I don't think it's enough to make him leave town when he's already made an enormous amount.
Matthews wasn't to worried about taking a shorter term.

-In a vacuum, an extra year isn't enough for him to waive. But in the same thought, why would he stay the extra season for no other reason if he knows he's walking? He may as well waive and select his next team now and secure that 8th year.
-In the most gentle terms possible, Mitch isn't Matthews. All 32 teams would offer Matthews a blank cheque at any point in his career and at age 30. Mitch might not be as risk tolerant. A huge 8 year deal is worth more to 99.9% of players than two 4 year deals that could possibly net you more money. Auston is that 0.01%.

 

[Fogelhund]

I don’t really want to see any young player model their professional game, demeanor and approach on JT’s example, do you? That brand of corporate leadership is not what I’m looking for in the next generation.

Well... I'm thinking on how to play C more than anything else... which he does well, and faceoffs....

 

[JKG33]

This offseason is literally the worst time to trade Marner, but it is what it is. Playoff teams aren't going to want him cause he's worth half his cap at best in playoffs. And non-playoff teams won't want to trade anything for him because they can wait until UFA.

To me there's 2 obvious teams to target. Anaheim and Chicago. Anaheim seems to love the charmain ultrasoft variety with inflated egos (Gauthier, Zegras). Chicago just needs talent to play with Bedard. The problem is both these teams will have at best very underwhelming trade offers at the draft. At this point I'd take whatever 2nd pick and middling prospect package they offer just to get his bitch ass off the team.

Buffalo could be another option, but Patty Kane should be their target.

 

[Stephen]

Well... I'm thinking on how to play C more than anything else... which he does well, and faceoffs....

Nope.

 

[notbias]

Vegas does it right , they move on from players when their play slides , we do back flips to find reasons why not to move on from them .

Vegas needed 10 million extra in cap space to make this plan work.

The other teams that won recently like Tampa and Colorado didn't.

Not saying we should not move on from players, but to replicate what Vegas did, we'd need to sit Marner all year, use his cap space, have him 100% before the playoffs, lie to the league about him being 100%, and then bring him back along with the extra players who were covering his cap.

I know our team sucks a lot, but we could have brought in the same players Vegas did in Hertl, Hanafin, and Mantha.

Domi - Matthews - Bertuzzi
McMann - Hertl - Marner
Mantha - Tavares - Nylander
Knies - Kampf - Reaves

Rielly - Lub
Hanafin - Liljegren
McCabe - Benoit

this team is cap-compliant using their methods, not saying they are winning anything, but this gives them a significant edge.

Just annoying seeing Vegas as how we should run things when they can't win without cheating.

I also call it cheating because if Stone is healthy he needs to come back, and I believe he was, you can argue it, but I won't agree.

 

[hotpaws]

Vegas needed 10 million extra in cap space to make this plan work.

The other teams that won recently like Tampa and Colorado didn't.

Not saying we should not move on from players, but to replicate what Vegas did, we'd need to sit Marner all year, use his cap space, have him 100% before the playoffs, lie to the league about him being 100%, and then bring him back along with the extra players who were covering his cap.

I know our team sucks a lot, but we could have brought in the same players Vegas did in Hertl, Hanafin, and Mantha.

Domi - Matthews - Bertuzzi
McMann - Hertl - Marner
Mantha - Tavares - Nylander
Knies - Kampf - Reaves

Rielly - Lub
Hanafin - Liljegren
McCabe - Benoit

this team is cap-compliant using their methods, not saying they are winning anything, but this gives them a significant edge.

Just annoying seeing Vegas as how we should run things when they can't win without cheating.

I also call it cheating because if Stone is healthy he needs to come back, and I believe he was, you can argue it, but I won't agree.

Vegas isn't cheating , they're maximizing the rules to ice the best team possible .

this being said it has nothing to do with them moving on from players who's are starting to slide

 

[notbias]

Vegas isn't cheating , they're maximizing the rules to ice the best team possible .

this being said it has nothing to do with them moving on from players who's are starting to slide

If Stone can play before game 1 of the playoffs, it is cheating.

You can't sit a healthy player on LTIR, it is against the rules.

His going there originally is fine, him staying there when healthy is not.

I always find it funny when a team loads up at the deadline when a player has a timeline around game 1, it means they know that he won't be back in the regular season, how do they know this?

As I said, fine to move on from players, but we can't replicate Vegas unless we have players willing to cheat.

 

[ACC1224]

-In a vacuum, an extra year isn't enough for him to waive. But in the same thought, why would he stay the extra season for no other reason if he knows he's walking? He may as well waive and select his next team now and secure that 8th year.
-In the most gentle terms possible, Mitch isn't Matthews. All 32 teams would offer Matthews a blank cheque at any point in his career and at age 30. Mitch might not be as risk tolerant. A huge 8 year deal is worth more to 99.9% of players than two 4 year deals that could possibly net you more money. Auston is that 0.01%.

As a UFA he can select his team, way more options. 'Picking' a team he can be traded to is reliant on the teams coming to an agreement on a trade.
I still don't think an 8th year is really all that big a deal.

 

[hotpaws]

If Stone can play before game 1 of the playoffs, it is cheating.

You can't sit a healthy player on LTIR, it is against the rules.

His going there originally is fine, him staying there when healthy is not.

I always find it funny when a team loads up at the deadline when a player has a timeline around game 1, it means they know that he won't be back in the regular season, how do they know this?

As I said, fine to move on from players, but we can't replicate Vegas unless we have players willing to cheat.

again , this is about Vegas moving on from players who are sliding , so stop trying to shift the goal posts

but i will say just because a player can get back into the lineup doesn't mean he's healthy , a few years ago Bergeron played with broken ribs and a punctured lung . a lot of players play with injuries in the playoffs they wouldn't play through in the regular season

 

[notbias]

again , this is about Vegas moving on from players who are sliding , so stop trying to shift the goal posts

but i will say just because a player can get back into the lineup doesn't mean he's healthy , a few years ago Bergeron played with broken ribs and a punctured lung . a lot of players play with injuries in the playoffs they wouldn't play through in the regular season

They move away from players but it isn't like they've won without cheating, so just saying it doesn't guarantee we get better.

Lots of teams didn't move away from players and won, Tampa, Colorado, and Washington being notable ones.

Again, fine to move away from players, but it isn't necessarily a recipe for success.

 

[Stephen]

They move away from players but it isn't like they've won without cheating, so just saying it doesn't guarantee we get better.

Lots of teams didn't move away from players and won, Tampa, Colorado, and Washington being notable ones.

Again, fine to move away from players, but it isn't necessarily a recipe for success.

In case you haven’t noticed our total cap hit is $97 million and $5 million more than Vegas. Only difference is we have guys like Muzzin, Murray and Klingberg on the sidelines and there’s no hockey value in reactivating them.

Maybe we could have been smarter with our guys like Brodie and Tavares on LTIR as well and bought some goodies at the deadline.

 

[CDN24]

Vegas needed 10 million extra in cap space to make this plan work.

The other teams that won recently like Tampa and Colorado didn't.

Not saying we should not move on from players, but to replicate what Vegas did, we'd need to sit Marner all year, use his cap space, have him 100% before the playoffs, lie to the league about him being 100%, and then bring him back along with the extra players who were covering his cap.

I know our team sucks a lot, but we could have brought in the same players Vegas did in Hertl, Hanafin, and Mantha.

Domi - Matthews - Bertuzzi
McMann - Hertl - Marner
Mantha - Tavares - Nylander
Knies - Kampf - Reaves

Rielly - Lub
Hanafin - Liljegren
McCabe - Benoit

this team is cap-compliant using their methods, not saying they are winning anything, but this gives them a significant edge.

Just annoying seeing Vegas as how we should run things when they can't win without cheating.

I also call it cheating because if Stone is healthy he needs to come back, and I believe he was, you can argue it, but I won't agree.

It was doable from a 2023-24 Cap perspective - not sure how 24-25 would work out adding another F at almost 7M. Also not sure Leafs had the assets to make it work Vegas traded

Player drafted in late 1st round of 2023 - Eastan Cowan from Leafs
2025 and 2026 1st rounder - leafs would have used 2024 and 2026 as their 2025 is already gone Mccabe trade
plus 2 2nds a 4th and a 5th - Leafs have no 2nds next 3 years, on3 3rd and 1 4th and a truck load of 5ths
They could have made it work but it was one hell off a all in gamble would have meant now picks in the the top 3 rounds of the next 3 drafts. Okay if it worked but based on results so far would Hertl, Mantha and Hanifin get this gang over the top?

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

As a UFA he can select his team, way more options. 'Picking' a team he can be traded to is reliant on the teams coming to an agreement on a trade.
I still don't think an 8th year is really all that big a deal.

That's a good counterpoint, but if Marner is providing the teams he's happy to play for, it's not really way more options. He can pick it now.

I do think the 8th year is a big deal when we're talking about the kind of AAV he's seeking. Anything over 10M per year is an amazing pay you'd want as long as possible in your late 20s and 30s. Nobody is leaving that on the table for an extra season in Toronto.

 

[notbias]

In case you haven’t noticed our total cap hit is $97 million and $5 million more than Vegas. Only difference is we have guys like Muzzin, Murray and Klingberg on the sidelines and there’s no hockey value in reactivating them.

Maybe we could have been smarter with our guys like Brodie and Tavares on LTIR as well and bought some goodies at the deadline.

You are advocating for cheating...

the $97 million we are using is irrelevant since no player is being sat to make room for other players and then being activated the exact moment playoffs start.

Not sure this is a case of our GM being dumb, just don't think anyone in our organization is amoral enough to cheat.

It was doable from a 2023-24 Cap perspective - not sure how 24-25 would work out adding another F at almost 7M. Also not sure Leafs had the assets to make it work Vegas traded

Player drafted in late 1st round of 2023 - Eastan Cowan from Leafs
2025 and 2026 1st rounder - leafs would have used 2024 and 2026 as their 2025 is already gone Mccabe trade
plus 2 2nds a 4th and a 5th - Leafs have no 2nds next 3 years, on3 3rd and 1 4th and a truck load of 5ths
They could have made it work but it was one hell off a all in gamble would have meant now picks in the the top 3 rounds of the next 3 drafts. Okay if it worked but based on results so far would Hertl, Mantha and Hanifin get this gang over the top?

The Leafs had more assets than Vegas, we just like to pretend we have none.

As you mentioned here, players are still assets.

 

[myleafs]

This!

Tavares isn't going anywhere, can be useful in mentoring some younger players, and will likely sign for cheap to stay here.

may as well just re-sign marner as well and keep this train rolling til it just dies eventually.