Who is this Bedard guy?

[frag2]

Bedard will be a Art Ross winner or probably MVP as well down the road....only because McDavid will be too old to challenge him and he has the most talent to do so

he's not at McDavid's "generational" elite talent though...he's on the small size at only 5'10" and not nearly thick enough like Crosby was at 18 to play along the wall

elite talent, just not "generational" IMO

This is how I kind of see it as well. But I'll wait and see before I really make judgment. Way too many players with the 'generational' tag it seems [cough TSN cough...Matthews, Hughes, Laf]

IMO, if youre a generational talent, you make an immediate impact to your team [ie. point per game as an 18 yr old rookie] even if they arent winning it all; if you 'develop' into a ppg player after a few years-as in not ppg right from getgo, youre just an elite level talent, not generational.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Your making something that isnt there.

Maybe I'll learn to like him. Got a bad impression of him showboating and trying to embarrass opponents on ice ample times and including the Czech game. In anycase he won't ever be an Oilers so its moot point what I feel about him.

Thanks for the article anyway. I took a look at it.

You could be right on the bolded.

 

[GMofOilers]

His numbers are not better than McDavid's at the same age.

Bedard ppg is 1.82 in the WHL
Mcdavid ppg was 1.72 in the OHL

 

[McFlyingV]

Bedard ppg is 1.82 in the WHL
Mcdavid ppg was 1.72 in the OHL

You don't look at a players entire junior career when looking at a developing player. What they did as 15 and 16 year olds has very little bearing on the player they are today (or in McDavid's case when he was going into his draft).

McDavid Draft year: Regular season: 0.94GPG, 2.55PPG, Playoffs: 1.05GPG, 2.45PPG
Bedard Draft year: Regular season: 0.96GPG, 2.29PPG

 

[GMofOilers]

You don't look at a players entire junior career when looking at a developing player. What they did as 15 and 16 year olds has very little bearing on the player they are today (or in McDavid's case when he was going into his draft).

McDavid Draft year: Regular season: 0.94GPG, 2.55PPG, Playoffs: 1.05GPG, 2.45PPG
Bedard Draft year: Regular season: 0.96GPG, 2.29PPG

Years not over yet, so why use that?

 

[McFlyingV]

Years not over yet, so why use that?

Because thats the only data we have up until this point for his current year. At the WJC break in his draft year McDavid had 49 points in 18 games (2.72ppg), and had to come back from a broken hand that season.

 

[VainGretzky]

Bedard ppg is 1.82 in the WHL
Mcdavid ppg was 1.72 in the OHL

It's hard to compare junior leagues like that, what quality of defense and goaltending did McDavid face, Also McDavid was playing junior when the scoring race in the NHL was won with 87 points and the 6th place skater had 78 lol last few years scoring has risen dramatically and that always trickles down to Junior, but Bedard could well very much be generational he sure has a pocket full of tricks in his arsenal. And another Gretzky Lemieux scenario would be awesome for the NHL

 

[ujju2]

Myself I love and respect a lot of players league wide and enjoy watching them play. Nobody was stating otherwise. Where the recoil occurs is in the unsubstantiated suggestion that Connor Bedard is better than Connor McDavid who is more prolific than almost anybody in history.

Its the blatant overhype, with no results, that people push back on.

On a personal level I love the demeanor of McD and how he was raised. He's not a player that loves shoving somebodies nose in it. He's the greatest in the world and he's NOT a showboat. Whereas I see that tendency in Connor Bedard. Maybe I'm making something that isn't there but I'm less thrilled with how Bedard comports himself.

We've been so lucky to have a generational superstar that doesn't even have the arrogance that is sometimes attached.

To wit on a personal level people like Messi more than Ronaldo. In human terms its understandable why they do.

As someone who likes Ronaldo more than Messi (and Ovi more than Crosby) the showboating thing really doesn't matter to me. But yeah I don't think there's much of a chance anybody else is at prime McDavid level for the next couple decades. Not a knock on Bedard, he could very well be the next generational player. But not all generational players are equal.

 

[GMofOilers]

Because thats the only data we have up until this point for his current year. At the WJC break in his draft year McDavid had 49 points in 18 games (2.72ppg), and had to come back from a broken hand that season.

Your digging pretty deep to defend your post which as "the same age"

Mcdavid was 6 months older at the WJC break in his draft year, so not sure why you would break it down to that?

 

[EnufAlready]

Bedard isnt a showboater. And hes a great playmaker. Hes really showing that this week.

Im a believer that we cant judge him till he gets there. The NHL is a different animal.

But…for the guys using Jr Stats, Mcdavid played with some damn good guys in Erie

Its been pretty dry for the Pats during his tenure.

Either way, lets hope he's a great Canadian Pro and doesn't piss a drop against the Oilers.

 

[McFlyingV]

Your digging pretty deep to defend your post which as "the same age"

Mcdavid was 6 months older at the WJC break in his draft year, so not sure why you would break it down to that?

Because its his draft year? I've never been someone who nit picks over someone being 5 or 6 months older. It means absolutely nothing, they're both in the year before they'll be playing in the NHL thats really all that matters.

Again, you tried to discredit my point so I showed you just how silly it is to say "well the year isn't over yet". Yeah, sure, but scoring doesn't usually increase as the year goes on. Typically scoring drops as teams have more time to get into mid season form, fine tune defences, etc. McDavid's ppg dropped as the season went on, so to expect Bedard's to somehow increase and catch or surpass McDavid's is an interesting prediction. At the same point in each player's draft year McDavid was outscoring him significantly, and he also went through an injury that season.

Its very odd you're trying to discredit just how incredible McDavid's draft year was. Bedard's as special player, but he hasn't matched McDavid at the same age, and I doubt he will at the NHL level when he's not shooting on CHL goalies. McDavid scored goals at a very similar pace despite having a pretty mediocre shot in junior. Bedard just doesn't have that insane speed, edge, and puck control that McDavid does, and thats why I don't see him as a McDavid level prospect. Thats not an insult. There's only been maybe 3-4 McDavid level prospects in the history of the NHL.

Bedard isnt a showboater. And hes a great playmaker. Hes really showing that this week.

Im a believer that we cant judge him till he gets there. The NHL is a different animal.

But…for the guys using Jr Stats, Mcdavid played with some damn good guys in Erie

Its been pretty dry for the Pats during his tenure.

Either way, lets hope he's a great Canadian Pro and doesn't piss a drop against the Oilers.

The Pats have no issue scoring. They're an upper tier offensive team in the WHL, they just can't defend to save their life. Thats the major difference between McDavid's Otters and Bedard's Pats. Both teams could score, but the Otters could actually keep the puck out of their net. Obviously the Otters were still a better offensive team, but the Pats aren't a lower tier offensive team by any means.

 

[EnufAlready]

There was lots of talk about Kamloops making a play for Bedard but the extremely wealthy Pats ownership don’t seem to want any part of it. If he got traded to Kamloops and played with Stanks, I think his point production might be out of this world.

Its a good night

Canada vs Sweden

Oilers kick some Winnipeg ass!!

 

[GMofOilers]

Because its his draft year? I've never been someone who nit picks over someone being 5 or 6 months older. It means absolutely nothing, they're both in the year before they'll be playing in the NHL thats really all that matters.

Again, you tried to discredit my point so I showed you just how silly it is to say "well the year isn't over yet". Yeah, sure, but scoring doesn't usually increase as the year goes on. Typically scoring drops as teams have more time to get into mid season form, fine tune defences, etc. McDavid's ppg dropped as the season went on, so to expect Bedard's to somehow increase and catch or surpass McDavid's is an interesting prediction. At the same point in each player's draft year McDavid was outscoring him significantly, and he also went through an injury that season.

Its very odd you're trying to discredit just how incredible McDavid's draft year was. Bedard's as special player, but he hasn't matched McDavid at the same age, and I doubt he will at the NHL level when he's not shooting on CHL goalies. McDavid scored goals at a very similar pace despite having a pretty mediocre shot in junior. Bedard just doesn't have that insane speed, edge, and puck control that McDavid does, and thats why I don't see him as a McDavid level prospect. Thats not an insult. There's only been maybe 3-4 McDavid level prospects in the history of the NHL.


The Pats have no issue scoring. They're an upper tier offensive team in the WHL, they just can't defend to save their life. Thats the major difference between McDavid's Otters and Bedard's Pats. Both teams could score, but the Otters could actually keep the puck out of their net.

I posted my stats, you broke it down to the last 3 months to defend your position. You wont use the last 2.4 years because then your argument becomes invalid.

That is cherry picking.......

Bedard got off to kinda a slow start this year, only had 10 goals 22 points in first 13 games. In his last 15 games hes got 17 G and 42 points. Thats improving as the season goes along, at a higher clip then Mcdavids 2.72 ppg, if we want to cherry pick?

There was lots of talk about Kamloops making a play for Bedard but the extremely wealthy Pats ownership don’t seem to want any part of it. If he got traded to Kamloops and played with Stanks, I think his point production might be out of this world.

Its a good night

Canada vs Sweden

Oilers kick some Winnipeg ass!!

Paddock has stated to the media Bedard does not want to be traded, so Paddock is not going to trade him. Its a request from Bedard.

 

[EnufAlready]

Because its his draft year? I've never been someone who nit picks over someone being 5 or 6 months older. It means absolutely nothing, they're both in the year before they'll be playing in the NHL thats really all that matters.

Again, you tried to discredit my point so I showed you just how silly it is to say "well the year isn't over yet". Yeah, sure, but scoring doesn't usually increase as the year goes on. Typically scoring drops as teams have more time to get into mid season form, fine tune defences, etc. McDavid's ppg dropped as the season went on, so to expect Bedard's to somehow increase and catch or surpass McDavid's is an interesting prediction. At the same point in each player's draft year McDavid was outscoring him significantly, and he also went through an injury that season.

Its very odd you're trying to discredit just how incredible McDavid's draft year was. Bedard's as special player, but he hasn't matched McDavid at the same age, and I doubt he will at the NHL level when he's not shooting on CHL goalies. McDavid scored goals at a very similar pace despite having a pretty mediocre shot in junior. Bedard just doesn't have that insane speed, edge, and puck control that McDavid does, and thats why I don't see him as a McDavid level prospect. Thats not an insult. There's only been maybe 3-4 McDavid level prospects in the history of the NHL.


The Pats have no issue scoring. They're an upper tier offensive team in the WHL, they just can't defend to save their life. Thats the major difference between McDavid's Otters and Bedard's Pats. Both teams could score, but the Otters could actually keep the puck out of their net. Obviously the Otters were still a better offensive team, but the Pats aren't a lower tier offensive team by any means.

Bedard has played 28 of their 36 games and yet hes been involved in more than 50% of their total goals. One could argue they dont score that well without him.

McDavid was in on just over 1/3 of his teams goals.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Man I'm glad Canada continues to produce super elite talent. And that an electric skill player is coming from Western Canada and the Dub.

Bedard's shot is elite now and will be against NHL goaltending, immediately. He's got that super elite processor that instinctively creates opportunity that only rarified players can identify and shifty elusiveness to find soft ice. His size, skating edge work, agility and elusiveness reminds me of the best attributes of Patrick Kane's game. That shot will be Stamkos, Matthews level.

His size is a lesser issue for the softer style of modern NHL. How high his ceiling will be against larger, faster, apex adult competition we'll see. If the kid can have a Patrick Kane level NHL career that would be remarkable. McDavid and Crosby all time super elite... I'm not sure about that. But again, I'm most happy about my top two points.

 

[Canovin]

Bedard will be challenging Mcdavid for the Art Ross in the next 3 seasons.

Doubt it. Bedard is going to a rebuilding team. McDavid got Drai and for possibly his whole career. I’d say 7 years from now he might

 

[EnufAlready]

Doubt it. Bedard is going to a rebuilding team. McDavid got Drai and for possibly his whole career. I’d say 7 years from now he might

Likey get a few points on a line with Zegras and McTavish???

 

[Canovin]

Likey get a few points on a line with Zegras and McTavish???

He has a better chance of winning the Richard than the Ross. The Ross is McDavid’s award to lose every year for the next 7 years

 

[EnufAlready]

He has a better chance of winning the Richard than the Ross. The Ross is McDavid’s award to lose every year for the next 7 years

Im not saying hes gonna win anything. Never did. Not even saying hes gonna be a great pro. But….hes gotta be hoping Ducks not Yotes.

 

[ujju2]

Im not saying hes gonna win anything. Never did. Not even saying hes gonna be a great pro. But….hes gotta be hoping Ducks not Yotes.

For sure. But I will say Keller-Bedard-Schmaltz wouldn't be a horrible line for him to start in. Ducks obviously have a lot more talent and depth but Bedard's line will be decent on either team.

 

[McFlyingV]

I posted my stats, you broke it down to the last 3 months to defend your position. You wont use the last 2.4 years because then your argument becomes invalid.

That is cherry picking.......

Bedard got off to kinda a slow start this year, only had 10 goals 22 points in first 13 games. In his last 15 games hes got 17 G and 42 points. Thats improving as the season goes along, at a higher clip then Mcdavids 2.72 ppg, if we want to cherry pick?


Paddock has stated to the media Bedard does not want to be traded, so Paddock is not going to trade him. Its a request from Bedard.

Thats not cherry picking, its just incredibly stupid to look at a player's entire junior career as a predictor of future success. Looking at how they progress year to year is far more important, and looking at where they're at during their draft year is the best predictor. McDavid progressed more throughout his junior career and to this point had a better draft year, despite missing 5 weeks with a broken hand.

Your statement is far more cherrypicking than anything I did. You picked literal cutoff games to portray stats the way you wanted. I looked at draft year data that we have to date. Could Bedard end up having a better draft year? Maybe, but I doubt he will. Does Bedard's skillset project as well as McDavid's has? Again I don't think so, but only time will tell. He has a tall order though to surpass a guy who will probably win close to 10 Art Rosses and likely 5 or more Harts and Lindsays in his career.

 

[GMofOilers]

Thats not cherry picking, its just incredibly stupid to look at a player's entire junior career as a predictor of future success. Looking at how they progress year to year is far more important, and looking at where they're at during their draft year is the best predictor. McDavid progressed more throughout his junior career and to this point had a better draft year, despite missing 5 weeks with a broken hand.

Your statement is far more cherrypicking than anything I did. You picked literal cutoff games to portray stats the way you wanted. I looked at draft year data that we have to date. Could Bedard end up having a better draft year? Maybe, but I doubt he will. Does Bedard's skillset project as well as McDavid's has? Again I don't think so, but only time will tell. He has a tall order though to surpass a guy who will probably win close to 10 Art Rosses and likely 5 or more Harts and Lindsays in his career.

You used 28 games of a season not even finished yet to say his stats at the same age arent as good, thats not cherry picking? If you can cherry pick ill cherry pick his last 15 games. Its simple. Why you ignore their CHL careers at this point is bonkers.

 

[McFlyingV]

Bedard has played 28 of their 36 games and yet hes been involved in more than 50% of their total goals. One could argue they dont score that well without him.

McDavid was in on just over 1/3 of his teams goals.

Stats are a bit skewed because of missed time from McDavid's injury and the WJC.

The Otters scored 247 goals in the regular season when McDavid was in the lineup and he had 120 points (48.5%). He then followed that up with 49 points on 84 Otters goals in the playoffs (58.3%).

Bedard in the games hes played this season has 64 points on 112 Pats goals (57.1%).

So no question, McDavid played on a better offensive team, but he was also a major reason for that like much Bedard is a reason why Regina is a higher scoring team despite being lower in the standings. Hard to quantify what being on either team does for either player's production though.

As of now McDavid had the better draft year. That could change by seasons end, but at this point McDavid is clearly ahead.

One other interesting aspect to consider is just how weak McDavid's shot was in junior. Bedard already has an incredible shot and thats going to beat junior goalies with ease because CHL goalies are quite terrible compared to their NHL counterparts. We know McDavid's shot has improved significantly since he was drafted. Can Bedard have that same type of progression in other aspects of his game to match the evolution of McDavid? Maybe, but its going to be a tall order for him.

 

[McFlyingV]

You used 28 games of a season not even finished yet to say his stats at the same age arent as good, thats not cherry picking? If you can cherry pick ill cherry pick his last 15 games. Its simple. Why you ignore their CHL careers at this point is bonkers.

Because it doesn't matter? Look at Tavares who had arguably one of the best junior careers of all time but was stagnant in his development into his draft year and never became that next generational talent. Look at the majority of high draft picks who will have a 40-50 point season in their draft-1 season and then follow it up with a 100+ point draft year season. Why you would ever look at their previous seasons as an indication leading into the draft is beyond me at that age. Players make exponential improvements in their game at that age that a previous year really doesn't have any predictive value on what they'll become the next year at the NHL level.

And again, if you can't see the difference in how our "cherry picked" stats are different, then I cannot help you. McDavid at this point had a better draft year. He had a better start to his draft year as well. Will he have a better finish? I'm not sure, I can't tell the future, but with the current data we have McDavid's draft year was more impressive (so far).

 

[GMofOilers]

Because it doesn't matter? Look at Tavares who had arguably one of the best junior careers of all time but was stagnant in his development into his draft year and never became that next generational talent. Look at the majority of high draft picks who will have a 40-50 point season in their draft-1 season and then follow it up with a 100+ point draft year season. Why you would ever look at their previous seasons as an indication leading into the draft is beyond me at that age. Players make exponential improvements in their game at that age that a previous year really doesn't have any predictive value on what they'll become the next year at the NHL level.

And again, if you can't see the difference in how our "cherry picked" stats are different, then I cannot help you. McDavid at this point had a better draft year. He had a better start to his draft year as well. Will he have a better finish? I'm not sure, I can't tell the future, but with the current data we have McDavid's draft year was more impressive (so far).

28 games in the CHL he was a tiny bit better. The last 15 games not as good. Ok we going to ignore the WJC in their draft years? Your the one using small sample sizes to conclude the better year?

I just cant wrap my head around better stats at the same age