Can a high profile prospect refuse to play for the team that drafted them?

[Brodeur]

I dont think it works that way
Teams have lists of eligible players and draft from that
Could draft a blind ballerina if they wanted
Recall last summer, the deviant prospect who posted pictures of a sex partner asleep and unaware. In wake of scandal, he asked teams not to pick him.
But a now-former NHL GM selected him early

I think the post-2005 CBA simplified it where it's defined by age rather than a player having to opt in. Although I vaguely recall a snippet when the Islanders drafted Henrik Tikkanen late in 2020 and they had to help him submit some form of paperwork in order for the pick to be kosher. Tikkanen didn't think he'd be drafted, so maybe he/his agent didn't send the NHL the required form?

In the pre-2005 days, a player had to submit paperwork to opt into a draft. I think there was an instance where a team (Edmonton?) drafted a European player who hadn't filed the paperwork and the pick was negated. This was a bit of chore in those days when NCAA players had to wait an extra year to be drafted (ie, why Thomas Vanek and Zach Parise were a year older than most of their 2003 draft counterparts) or opt in early and giving up their amateur status. Rick DiPietro, originally scheduled for the 2001 Draft, opted in relatively late for the 2000 Draft and sacrificed his remaining NCAA eligibility in the process.

For fun, here's the form that you had to send back in those days:

Exhibit 3
Opt-In Form
Instructions to Players Wishing to Opt In to NHL Entry Draft
1. Please complete the attached form. Be sure to have it
signed by a parent or legal guardian and have it notarized by a
notary public, commissioner of oaths or its equivalent.

2. The form should be returned, by registered mail, to:

National Hockey League
1800 McGill College Avenue
Suite 2600
Montreal, Quebec H3A 3J6
Attn: Central Registry

with a copy to:

National Hockey League
1251 Avenue of the Americas
47th Floor
New York, NY 10020
Attn: Brian P. Burke
Senior Vice President,
Director of Hockey Operations

and:

National Hockey League Players' Association
One Dundas Street West
Suite 2300
P.O. Box 84
Toronto, Canada M5G 1Z3

The form must be postmarked by May 15, or within 7 days of your
last game, whichever is later.

3. We will send you (and your representative, if you have
selected one) a formal acknowledgment that we have received your
opt-in form. Election to Opt-In to NHL Entry Draft
I, ________________, hereby irrevocably elect to be eligible
for the 1995 National Hockey League Entry Draft. I recognize
that making this election may cause me to lose my eligibility to
participate in collegiate and other amateur competition and I
understand and accept that risk freely and knowingly.

Player Information:

Player Name:
Player Address:

Player Phone:
Player Birthday:
Player's Current Club or College:
Date of Last Game:
Agent Information, if any:

Agent Name:
Agent Address:

Agent Phone:

Player Parent or Guardian
On [date] before me personally appeared [player]
and [parent/guardian] known to me to be the persons signing
this form and signed it in my presence or attested that the
signatures on the form were their respective signatures.

Notary Public/Commissioner of Oaths Date
Signed

-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------
For Central Registry Purposes Only:
Date Received:
By: Initialed
Name Printed

 

[The Professional]

Yea no, the players is the entitled one, not the fans who “deserve” to own a players life trajectory

Who said anything about the fans? It's got nothing to do with it.

In my book, you get drafted, you're a professional, or at least you're trying to be, shut the f*** up and report to your team like everyone else and be thankful you're getting a chance to play in the best league in the world and make millions of dollars. Unless it's for a valid reason like you're in school and want to continue your studies then that's fine , but this whole " I'm a spoiled little Superstar Primadonna and I don't want to play in City X and I want to choose where I am going to play like I'm already some free agent even though I haven't played a shift in the NHL yet" bit is a whole bunch of crap.

There are countless players everywhere who would give their left nut for a chance to be drafted and play even one shift in the NHL and who would never dream to give the finger to the team that drafted them.

 

[Brodeur]

Mathieu Chouinard.

Drafted by Ottawa in first round.

Opted to re enter draft 2 years later.

Drafted by Ottawa in second round.

I always like to expand on that story since it was a little bit messy. Chouinard was drafted in June 1998 when Pierre Gauthier was Ottawa's GM. Two days after the draft, Gauthier quit citing family reasons (only to agree to become Anaheim's GM shortly thereafter). Gauthier was replaced by Rick Dudley who then left to become GM in Tampa before the 1999 Draft. Dudley was then replaced in Ottawa by Marshall Johnston.

With Ottawa's front office in disarray, Chouinard said that he had minimal contact with the organization in the two years after being drafted. Right before the signing deadline in June 2000, Chouinard said that they presented him with a lowball "take it or leave it" offer and Johnston refused to negotiate. Out of principle, Chouinard decided not to sign and re-entered the draft. Ottawa got a compensatory pick for not being able to sign Chouinard. Then comically Ottawa used that compensatory pick to select him again. Chouinard said he punched a wall when he found out.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Adam Fox has entered the chat.

 

[General Fanager]

Why? It's the one thing that gives a player power over his destiny and it's expensive enough for him.

Cause they all want to end up on big market teams or their home teams and the teams that invested in them get screwed.

 

[Chips]

Who said anything about the fans? It's got nothing to do with it.

In my book, you get drafted, you're a professional, or at least you're trying to be, shut the f*** up and report to your team like everyone else and be thankful you're getting a chance to play in the best league in the world and make millions of dollars. Unless it's for a valid reason like you're in school and want to continue your studies then that's fine , but this whole " I'm a spoiled little Superstar Primadonna and I don't want to play in City X and I want to choose where I am going to play like I'm already some free agent even though I haven't played a shift in the NHL yet" bit is a whole bunch of crap.

There are countless players everywhere who would give their left nut for a chance to be drafted and play even one shift in the NHL and who would never dream to give the finger to the team that drafted them.

I did, that was my point. Lots of fans complaining about players trying to influence their careers as if they’re owed anything by the player.

players work insanely hard as kids to achieve their dream, and some have their dreams wasted by mediocre management. There’s a variety of personal and professional reasons players may want to go to a different city from ice time/roster competition or location of their family etc

Young players didn’t negotiate or agree to the draft, they just have to live with it, they promised nothing.

I’m fine with teams trying to retain control and I’m equally fine with players trying to have some influence in their life, they owe nothing to us. We all have self interest and as has been pointed out in these types of threads the top of the crop in basically every other industry, where they are because they invested their lives, made sacrifices, committed get some say in where they go. Ie they’re rewarded. If a player is willing to give up literally millions of dollars to have some say, in a sense he’s paying for it and that’s his right.

It’d be better if there was an environment where players at least felt comfortable before the draft saying they’d likely stay at college/not go here or there. If the team wants fo draft them anyway that’s on them.


The fan entitlement is fans criticizing people they’ve never met, who they literally only think about in the context not as complex humans, not even of hockey broadly, but specifically that two hours a day every few days… that small % of that fans life, some extent of their entertainment… that versus the players whole life, commitment, dreams, where they live, distance traveled etc; and criticizing the player and dumping on the player as “a selfish brat” for having the nerve to try and exercise the same right literally as everyone else does.

It’s bratty of the fans feeling they’re owed anything. Players who even commit fully to their teams get dumped and abandoned all the time. It goes both ways. Even after getting the team he wants/finds more acceptable he has little control over much of his life

 

[Tawnos]

With the cost of university in the states, living without expenses while playing college hockey represents significant earnings. It's not a slam dunk that other leagues such as in Europe could offer a better financial situation.

I'm not saying that the draw of college hockey is money. I'm saying there is no significant financial loss in staying there.

The financial loss, for a player that goes all 4 years who could otherwise sign a contract in the NHL, is potentially several million dollars. It does depend on the caliber of player, but getting going two years early has implications down the line. Let's take Kevin Hayes...

Reality, college UFA at 22:
ELC - 2 years, $1.8m ($900k per)
2nd contract - 2 years, $5.2m ($2.6m per)
3rd contract - 1 year, $5.175m
4th contract - 7 years, $50m($7.142857m per)
Total earnings at 33 - $62.175m

Could've been, left college and signed with Chicago at 20:
ELC - 3 years, $2.7m ($900k per)
2nd contract - 2 years, $4.4m ($2.2m per)
3rd contract - 2 years, $8m ($4m per)
4th contract - 7 years, $50m ($7.142857m per)
Total earnings at 33 - $65.1m

Leaving college two years early, while giving him an extra ELC year making $900k, also gives him an extra year to earn a lucrative contract in his prime. And that's even with reducing the annual value of the 2nd and 3rd contracts significantly. He still signs his big contract in the same year of his career. Staying in college two extra years probably cost him $3m in NHL earnings. It's probably closer to $5m, but I think I low-balled those RFA contracts, honestly. Two years of college expenses doesn't come close to making up for that.

 

[Anglesmith]

The financial loss, for a player that goes all 4 years who could otherwise sign a contract in the NHL, is potentially several million dollars. It does depend on the caliber of player, but getting going two years early has implications down the line. Let's take Kevin Hayes...

Reality, college UFA at 22:
ELC - 2 years, $1.8m ($900k per)
2nd contract - 2 years, $5.2m ($2.6m per)
3rd contract - 1 year, $5.175m
4th contract - 7 years, $50m($7.142857m per)
Total earnings at 33 - $62.175m

Could've been, left college and signed with Chicago at 20:
ELC - 3 years, $2.7m ($900k per)
2nd contract - 2 years, $4.4m ($2.2m per)
3rd contract - 2 years, $8m ($4m per)
4th contract - 7 years, $50m ($7.142857m per)
Total earnings at 33 - $65.1m

Leaving college two years early, while giving him an extra ELC year making $900k, also gives him an extra year to earn a lucrative contract in his prime. And that's even with reducing the annual value of the 2nd and 3rd contracts significantly. He still signs his big contract in the same year of his career. Staying in college two extra years probably cost him $3m in NHL earnings. It's probably closer to $5m, but I think I low-balled those RFA contracts, honestly. Two years of college expenses doesn't come close to making up for that.

Those numbers are pretty normal when it comes to NHL players picking a preferred destination. The players who look to maximize their earnings at each opportunity likely would not stay in college for four years. The players who go four years in college are likely the same type of guys who leave money on the table to go to or stay with a specific team.

 

[FMichael]

Let’s say an 18 year old kid “generational talent” decides he doesn’t want to play for the team that drafted him. Could he sign in Russia for 3 years for potentially more money and sign with whoever he wants at 21?

Random question

I suggest you speak to Carl Lindros.

 

[sinDer]

Or forever if he goes to the KHL as OP asked about. Teams retain the re-entry rights for the prospects in the KHL forever. The Jackets still have the rights to longtime KHL MVP Sergei Mozyakin, who they drafted two decades ago...

No NA player would be interested to go play in the KHL anyways.

 

[Oblivion Beckons]

Of course lol. What you think there's a gun to their head?

Players don't choose to enter the draft. I think with the way the draft is presented people think teams are actually drafting the physical player when in reality teams are drafting the exclusive rights to the players. Players have zero obligation to play for a team that drafted them but if they wish to play in the NHL it has to be with the team with their rights. The whole Russian factor is a great example of this, some Russian players are drafted by NHL teams but choose to never play in the NHL. On the other hand there are KHL teams that draft high end would be NHLers in later rounds of their draft so if for some reason that player wanted to play in the KHL that team would have their rights. For example McDavid, MacKinnon, Rantanen, W Nylander and Eichel all have been drafted by KHL teams.

 

[Tawnos]

Those numbers are pretty normal when it comes to NHL players picking a preferred destination. The players who look to maximize their earnings at each opportunity likely would not stay in college for four years. The players who go four years in college are likely the same type of guys who leave money on the table to go to or stay with a specific team.

You seem to have missed my entire point, but ok

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

I did, that was my point. Lots of fans complaining about players trying to influence their careers as if they’re owed anything by the player.

players work insanely hard as kids to achieve their dream, and some have their dreams wasted by mediocre management. There’s a variety of personal and professional reasons players may want to go to a different city from ice time/roster competition or location of their family etc

Young players didn’t negotiate or agree to the draft, they just have to live with it, they promised nothing.

I’m fine with teams trying to retain control and I’m equally fine with players trying to have some influence in their life, they owe nothing to us. We all have self interest and as has been pointed out in these types of threads the top of the crop in basically every other industry, where they are because they invested their lives, made sacrifices, committed get some say in where they go. Ie they’re rewarded. If a player is willing to give up literally millions of dollars to have some say, in a sense he’s paying for it and that’s his right.

It’d be better if there was an environment where players at least felt comfortable before the draft saying they’d likely stay at college/not go here or there. If the team wants fo draft them anyway that’s on them.


The fan entitlement is fans criticizing people they’ve never met, who they literally only think about in the context not as complex humans, not even of hockey broadly, but specifically that two hours a day every few days… that small % of that fans life, some extent of their entertainment… that versus the players whole life, commitment, dreams, where they live, distance traveled etc; and criticizing the player and dumping on the player as “a selfish brat” for having the nerve to try and exercise the same right literally as everyone else does.

It’s bratty of the fans feeling they’re owed anything. Players who even commit fully to their teams get dumped and abandoned all the time. It goes both ways. Even after getting the team he wants/finds more acceptable he has little control over much of his life

The system is necessary to ensure that all 32 teams have more or less a chance to one day have a championship team. Otherwise you have a system like European soccer.

 

[PettersonHughes]

Can we cite this post as the source of this information?

Lol down for that. If he doesn't sign though just like Adam Fox didn't sign with Calgary I'd better get credited.

 

[Chips]

The system is necessary to ensure that all 32 teams have more or less a chance to one day have a championship team. Otherwise you have a system like European soccer.

And most players go where they’re drafted, but I don’t mind players who don’t. Also to a large extent the draft exists from/because of pre salary cap days. Someone smarter than me could probably figure out changes to the system that would give the players a little more

you can’t afford to buy every star talent, and less sure-thing young players can’t afford to not accept whatever team takes them

 

[Chainshot]

Lol down for that. If he doesn't sign though just like Adam Fox didn't sign with Calgary I'd better get credited.

Yeah, you aren't getting shit.

 

[ole ole]

I hate this line of thinking. While it would suck for a prospect to not want to sign with your team, that player is also potentially sacrificing a lot of money to do this. These guys only get one career and if a player doesn’t want to waste it in Arizona can you blame them. I’ll side with the players over the owners any day.

Would love to see a player sit out the 2 yrs just to get redrafted b y the same team. Would look good on the player.

 

[PettersonHughes]

Yeah, you aren't getting shit.

Lol I can tell you're fun to be with at parties.

 

[JAK]

If you are the next generational talent that is slated as the default top 3 pick in the next draft, and you see Oilers, Coyotes, and Sabres all waiting in the top 3 to pick you, and you have seen what those organization have been your entire life, what do you do?

Why not tell everyone in those standard team interviews I'm going to NCAA, go on a tour of campuses and see which top school willing to give me a scholarship?

If I still get drafted by Oilers, Coyotes, Sabres, then I can stay in school, if I wanted to.
If I get drafted by a team that knows what their doing, then maybe I get 'convinced' to leave school.

 

[cleveland408]

demand a trade or go to US college and play all 4 years and become UFA ( NHL needs to fix this)

but that's about it I think....

It doesn't need "fixing"

 

[Reindl87]

Bit off topic. I have always wondered why no one has ever brought the Draft System in American sports to the Supreme Court. No way in hell the system would survive that. It breaches so many Individual rights.

 

[Mogo]

Let’s say an 18 year old kid “generational talent” decides he doesn’t want to play for the team that drafted him. Could he sign in Russia for 3 years for potentially more money and sign with whoever he wants at 21?

Random question

Eric Lindros

 

[Speyer]

The Spengler Cup?

The Spengler Cup is neither a team nor a League though. You can't play for a tournament...

 

[tarheelhockey]

The Spengler Cup is neither a team nor a League though. You can't play for a tournament...

???

“Play for” as in, the reason he’s playing there.

Every player in the NHL plays for money. Some of them don’t care about the money and are really playing for a Cup. The rest of us play for fun.

 

[SaltNPeca]

Not entitled at all, IMO. The player is paying the price by turning down money to not play for that team.

Not saying I like when players do this, but this doesn't make them entitled.

Agree. US College or KHL/International route is respectable.

What Lindros did on the other hand wasn't that respectable. The team he snubbed won cups while he NEVER did. Interestingly the Rangers also won in '94 with some key players that were offered for Lindros. Weird how these things turn out.