OT: In case you forgot what good goaltending looks like

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Am I the only one who blames the Wings' goaltending coaches for our lack of success in goal? It seems like Howard and Mrazek both got worse as soon as Salajko came in, and none of our goalie prospects have done well. Mrazek has pretty much only improved since leaving the team, and Howard's career pretty much fell off a cliff once Salajko was hired. I also never had any confidence in Jim Bedard as a coach. I'd kind of like to see the Wings try to lure Allaire out of retirement, or go after his brother.

Luring Francois Allaire out of retirement is exactly what I proposed a while back. On that note, WikiP has him listed as the Panthers G consultant. If he doesn't accept, maybe he'd go for a remote Goaltending Advisory role, where he breaks down videos & gives feedback...plus a few zoom calls during practice & we're in business. We have the technology. All his teams hated us & vice versa.

François Allaire - Wikipedia

 

[Henkka]

Am I the only one who blames the Wings' goaltending coaches for our lack of success in goal? It seems like Howard and Mrazek both got worse as soon as Salajko came in, and none of our goalie prospects have done well. Mrazek has pretty much only improved since leaving the team, and Howard's career pretty much fell off a cliff once Salajko was hired. I also never had any confidence in Jim Bedard as a coach. I'd kind of like to see the Wings try to lure Allaire out of retirement, or go after his brother.

Jim Bedard has kind of proved (by leaving Detroit) that he is one of the best in business. Just look at the Dallas Stars latest years, how the goalie changes and results stay good.

They have defensive system, but yeah, so has the islanders and they have Mitch Korn.

Our best years happened with Bedard. He was able to reclamate Osgood with another Cup. Quite an accomplishment.

Salajko has been just a warm body. Time to release him from his duties.

 

[DetroitRed]

He was also their best player most years, so he quickly became the cornerstone of the franchise and fan favorite. He won the Rangers MVP award 9 times. Fastest goalie in NHL history to record 400 wins.

New York is a market that will propel you if you're great, but if you're not up to the task, well... ask Wade Redden.

He was arguably their best player a lot of years and has one Hart nomination to show for it, was also the NHL's best goalie for about a season. You made me curious about how "great" Lundqvist really is, so comparing him to just some of his contemporaries:

Vezina:
Lundqvist 1
Vasilevsky 1
Price 1
Rinne 1
Hellebuyck 1
Rask 1
Holtby 1
Brodeur 4
Tim Thomas 2
Sergei Bobrovsky 2

Stanley Cups:
(Lundqvist 0)
Brodeur 3
Tim Thomas 1
Vasilevskiy 1
Rask 1
Holtby 1

First Team All-Star:
Brodeur 3
Thomas 2
Bobrovsky 2
Vasilevskiy 1
Lundqvist 1
Price 1
Rinne 1
Rask 1
Holtby 1
Hellebuyck 1

Conn Smyth:
Thomas 1
(Lundqvist 0)

William K. Jennings wins:
Brodeur 5
Thomas 1
Holtby 1
Rask 1
Price 1
(Lundqvist 0)

Calder Memorial Trophy wins:
Brodeur 1
(Lundqvist 0)

Hart Trophy wins:
Price 1
(Lundqvist 0)

Ted Lindsey Award wins:
Price 1
(Lundqvist 0)

So, if I were rating him against those contemporaries, just adding up the points from above, they rank as follows:

1. Brodeur
2. Thomas
3. Price
4-6. Holtby/Rask/Bobrovsky
7. Vasilevskiy
8-10. Hellebuyck/Rinne/Lundqvist

Although, keeping in mind that many goalies are younger and could climb in the rankings. Some of these are also kinda team achievements - Bobrovsky, for example, might rank higher than Price, with his two Vezinas.

Still, Lundqvist is one of the better goalies of his era - might still be in the top fifteen goalies of his era when all is said and done (I didn't include Hasek, Kiprusoff, Miller or Belfour above, nor any up-and-comers).

 

[TheClap]

Am I the only one who blames the Wings' goaltending coaches for our lack of success in goal? It seems like Howard and Mrazek both got worse as soon as Salajko came in, and none of our goalie prospects have done well. Mrazek has pretty much only improved since leaving the team, and Howard's career pretty much fell off a cliff once Salajko was hired. I also never had any confidence in Jim Bedard as a coach. I'd kind of like to see the Wings try to lure Allaire out of retirement, or go after his brother.

I was going to ask, did Stevie bring any of the goalie guys with him from Tampa? Based on how Bernier has played and how Greiss closed out the year it doesn't seem like we have the same old regime.

 

[Bench]

So, if I were rating him against those contemporaries, just adding up the points from above, they rank as follows:

1. Brodeur
2. Thomas
3. Price
4-6. Holtby/Rask/Bobrovsky
7. Vasilevskiy
8-10. Hellebuyck/Rinne/Lundqvist

I appreciate your efforts, but judging goalies based on awards is going to lead you to a grouping like this where you have a guy like Holtby several spots ahead of Lundqvist. And literally nobody, not even the biggest Caps homers, will argue that.

 

[DetroitRed]

I appreciate your efforts, but judging goalies based on awards is going to lead you to a grouping like this where you have a guy like Holtby several spots ahead of Lundqvist. And literally nobody, not even the biggest Caps homers, will argue that.

Well, what does Holtby have more, a Jennings and a Cup? Those are team-influenced achievements for sure, but so are wins. What are you judging by if not these kinds of things? Plus, Holtby might be one, maybe Miller is another... you could even take another one, but that would still leave Lundqvist in the top fifteen of his own era rather than top ten. I don't think it's a bad way to view it, honestly, seems pretty accurate considering those other names. And top fifteen in the world in his own era is pretty damn good.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

You forgot the best, though.



Gun to my head, Lundqvist is my favorite goalie of all time. The Bench favorite list, which is not to be confused with an actual quality ranking.

1. Lundqvist
2. Belfour
3. Turco
4. Hasek
5. Osgood

List is subject to change because it's my list.

Hasek is best goalie of all time you clown.

 

[14ari13]

One of the best saves ever by Hasek was vs avs in 02 game 6. The avs were on PP and he stopped Drury by his head. I have no idea how that shot did not go in.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Hasek is best goalie of all time you clown.

That one is Bench’s list of favorites. Not a “best goalie”. Marty Turco at #2 or #3 should have been the giveaway

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

He was arguably their best player a lot of years and has one Hart nomination to show for it, was also the NHL's best goalie for about a season. You made me curious about how "great" Lundqvist really is, so comparing him to just some of his contemporaries:

Vezina:
Lundqvist 1
Vasilevsky 1
Price 1
Rinne 1
Hellebuyck 1
Rask 1
Holtby 1
Brodeur 4
Tim Thomas 2
Sergei Bobrovsky 2

Stanley Cups:
(Lundqvist 0)
Brodeur 3
Tim Thomas 1
Vasilevskiy 1
Rask 1
Holtby 1

First Team All-Star:
Brodeur 3
Thomas 2
Bobrovsky 2
Vasilevskiy 1
Lundqvist 1
Price 1
Rinne 1
Rask 1
Holtby 1
Hellebuyck 1

Conn Smyth:
Thomas 1
(Lundqvist 0)

William K. Jennings wins:
Brodeur 5
Thomas 1
Holtby 1
Rask 1
Price 1
(Lundqvist 0)

Calder Memorial Trophy wins:
Brodeur 1
(Lundqvist 0)

Hart Trophy wins:
Price 1
(Lundqvist 0)

Ted Lindsey Award wins:
Price 1
(Lundqvist 0)

So, if I were rating him against those contemporaries, just adding up the points from above, they rank as follows:

1. Brodeur
2. Thomas
3. Price
4-6. Holtby/Rask/Bobrovsky
7. Vasilevskiy
8-10. Hellebuyck/Rinne/Lundqvist

Although, keeping in mind that many goalies are younger and could climb in the rankings. Some of these are also kinda team achievements - Bobrovsky, for example, might rank higher than Price, with his two Vezinas.

Still, Lundqvist is one of the better goalies of his era - might still be in the top fifteen goalies of his era when all is said and done (I didn't include Hasek, Kiprusoff, Miller or Belfour above, nor any up-and-comers).

Silliness. There isn’t a “might still be”.

Braden Holtby had three years where he was a starter on Lundqvist’s level. Three. Lundqvist was never worse than sixth in Vezina voting for the first decade of his career. It is frankly insulting and reeks of massive stat/award watching and no other analysis that you’d ever dream of Holtby over Lundqvist. Or Pekka Rinne over Lundqvist. And man, I love Pekka Rinne

 

[Bench]

That one is Bench’s list of favorites. Not a “best goalie”. Marty Turco at #2 or #3 should have been the giveaway

Well, that, and the fact I just straight up said so.

The Bench favorite list, which is not to be confused with an actual quality ranking.

But it sounds like it might be fun to convince this guy Turco is a better goalie than Hasek.

Let's start with stickhandling...