WC: 2024 Team USA

[MNRube]

It's going to be tough for Johnny with the talent we have, but if he comes out the gate swinging next year on a bit more talented Blue Jackets team, how do you leave off one of the most talented players your country has that actually gives a shit and repeatedly has shown up here? For me the damage is worse by leaving him off versus whatever limitations he might have.

We have plenty of bigger skilled wingers to surround him, Hughes and Kane with..too many times we lose because we simply don't have enough skill...that won't be the case next year unless we pick a team more focused on what Canada has or will bring instead of the talent we have available.

Connor, Boldy, Guentzel, Tkachuks, Thompson, Tuch, Keller, Kreider, Boeser is a really deep group of wingers. Then you have guys like JT Miller & Larkin who could get moved to the wing. I just don’t see a spot for Gaudreau, even though I agree with your sentiments above. I think a role player like Coleman is a better fit. Shortage of talent is not going to an issue for this rendition of Team USA with Eichel, Hughes & Matthews as your 3 scoring Cs

 

[AmericanDream]

Connor, Boldy, Guentzel, Tkachuks, Thompson, Tuch, Keller, Kreider, Boeser is a really deep group of wingers. Then you have guys like JT Miller & Larkin who could get moved to the wing. I just don’t see a spot for Gaudreau, even though I agree with your sentiments above. I think a role player like Coleman is a better fit. Shortage of talent is not going to an issue for this rendition of Team USA with Eichel, Hughes & Matthews as your 3 scoring Cs

My thinking is the 4 Nations is where you give the guys who have been loyal their chance. Reward Gaudreau, Nelson, Boldy, etc.. They showed up when Connor, Keller, Trocheck, Guentzel really haven't.

That tournament should be used as a trial to see what type of group/team you can bring together. If that team gets beat or looks bad at least you can say you gave guys who were loyal their chance..then Olympic time you can look to some of those names above that got left off...

I doubt US Hockey leaves off all of Keller, Connor, Guentzel and Trocheck but I do believe a few of them will be and rightfully so at least for the 4 Nations.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Respectfully disagree. Give me a guy like Tuch as a role player. Gaudreau isn’t good enough anymore to be a main player on what could be the best overall roster in 4 Nations. No Gaudreau, Caufield, Zegras or any one-dimensional players. Sweden & Canada will expose guys like that

Gaudreau is in no way a one dimensional player. Such a crazy misconception.

Connor, Boldy, Guentzel, Tkachuks, Thompson, Tuch, Keller, Kreider, Boeser is a really deep group of wingers. Then you have guys like JT Miller & Larkin who could get moved to the wing. I just don’t see a spot for Gaudreau, even though I agree with your sentiments above. I think a role player like Coleman is a better fit. Shortage of talent is not going to an issue for this rendition of Team USA with Eichel, Hughes & Matthews as your 3 scoring Cs

You talk about not wanting one dimensional players and then mention like 5 of them....

Gaudreau is still an elite offensive player, don't let his numbers in Columbus fool you.

 

[MNRube]

Gaudreau is in no way a one dimensional player. Such a crazy misconception.


You talk about not wanting one dimensional players and then mention like 5 of them....

Gaudreau is still an elite offensive player, don't let his numbers in Columbus fool you.

He’s tiny, has no physical game whatsoever and no longer is productive enough to make up for it. If he gets back to being Johnny Hockey, which is entirely possible, it’s a different story.

 

[Zero Pucks Given]

Well that's quite the headline...

 

[AmericanDream]

My man just gets it....

 

[Rabid Ranger]

View attachment 873395

My man just gets it....

Cool

 

[WarriorofTime]

Bring the best team to the Bettman Cup so that you are in a position to bring the best team to the Olympics.

The WC are nice and all for what they are, but in no way are you selecting your best team based on who scored points in a 10-1 win against Kazakhstan, who has a back to back with the game against Poland determining who is relegated (Kazakhstan either needs to win or any sort of regulation tie as they enter two points up on Poland). And not to be that guy, but Gaudreau's teams didn't even medal in 3 of the previous 4 World Championships he played, so that'd be really rewarding someone with a participation trophy in the truest sense of that term.

On a cheerier note, officially clinched for the Quarterfinals. Latvia's shootout win over Slovakia made it impossible for Latvia to catch USA (because they got 2, not 3 ponts) and by dropping 2 points, Slovakia is now behind USA each with 1 game left. A regulation win over Latvia would lock USA into 2nd. An OT/Shootout win (for 2 points) probably gets them there as well since they have a tiebreak on Germany, and Slovakia would have to beat Sweden in regulation (to get 3 points and tie USA in points but Slovakia would have tiebreaker), and I think they'd need Germany to NOT have won in regulation so it's not a 3-way tie which favors USA for having most points amongst that threesome (with a reg win and OT loss, instead of reg win and reg loss or OT win and reg loss).

 

[ORRFForever]

Bring the best team to the Bettman Cup so that you are in a position to bring the best team to the Olympics.

The WC are nice and all for what they are, but in no way are you selecting your best team based on who scored points in a 10-1 win against Kazakhstan, who has a back to back with the game against Poland determining who is relegated (Kazakhstan either needs to win or any sort of regulation tie as they enter two points up on Poland). And not to be that guy, but Gaudreau's teams didn't even medal in 3 of the previous 4 World Championships he played, so that'd be really rewarding someone with a participation trophy in the truest sense of that term.

On a cheerier note, officially clinched for the Quarterfinals. Latvia's shootout win over Slovakia made it impossible for Latvia to catch USA (because they got 2, not 3 ponts) and by dropping 2 points, Slovakia is now behind USA each with 1 game left. A regulation win over Latvia would lock USA into 2nd. An OT/Shootout win (for 2 points) probably gets them there as well since they have a tiebreak on Germany, and Slovakia would have to beat Sweden in regulation (to get 3 points and tie USA in points but Slovakia would have tiebreaker), and I think they'd need Germany to NOT have won in regulation so it's not a 3-way tie which favors USA for having most points amongst that threesome (with a reg win and OT loss, instead of reg win and reg loss or OT win and reg loss).

It's either the Swiss or Czechia. Not sure who the U.S. would rather play.

 

[mphmiles]

Can someone tell Engblom that Sanderson and Karlsson didn't overlap in Ottawa? Second game he's compared them and claimed Karlsson mentored Sanderson...

It's astounding that he keeps repeating that. Karlsson left Ottawa four years before Sanderson arrived there. Sanderson was 16.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

"And not to be that guy, but Gaudreau's teams didn't even medal in 3 of the previous 4 World Championships he played, so that'd be really rewarding someone with a participation trophy in the truest sense of that term."

Yah cause yag know...Gaudreau should have played better in net during his previous appearances. Placing blame on one player, to where his team finished or why they didn't medal, is pretty ridiculous.

 

[AmericanDream]

"And not to be that guy, but Gaudreau's teams didn't even medal in 3 of the previous 4 World Championships he played, so that'd be really rewarding someone with a participation trophy in the truest sense of that term."

Yah cause yag know...Gaudreau should have played better in net during his previous appearances. Placing blame on one player, to where his team finished or why they didn't medal, is pretty ridiculous.

Some of this stuff I get from others and some of it I truly don't understand.

Johnny can be a streaky player, we know this. But so is Kane. So is Hughes. Most smaller skilled players are like this. When they are "on" they can be dominating and when they aren't "on" they can be a mess out there. It is risk vs reward and normally the reward over time far exceeds the risks.

Johnny wouldn't need to be the go to guy here nor would Kane. There would be plenty of talent/support to surround these guys to just let them do what they do.

I have said this many times already but loyalty matters. What the hell is the point of top players like Gaudreau, Nelson, Jones, etc if they can't make a 4 Nations team despite showing up numerous times in favor of some guys who declined almost every year? Make it make sense to me please (not meant for you ofcourse)???

If the talent range is close, these are the guys you take. And why is that? Because it matters to them! Guys like Keller, Connor, Guentzel and Trocheck over the years couldn't be bothered to attend whether after a first round elimination or if they missed the playoffs.

Why on Earth would we want all of those guys on these teams? Do we really think they are going to give it their all out there when they couldn't show up for years to play at the WC? Only one correct answer here lol..

I agree on bringing your most talented players, but you also have to factor in setting a culture and tone for your teams moving forward. Guys like Nelson and Gaudreau are some of the most talented players we have, they aren't grinders with "truculence"..

They have shown up many times when called upon. If you don't pick them because someone scored 10 more goals than them or has a handful more assist than them, you have just shown all American players it doesn't matter if you show up when called. It doesn't matter if you truly care about this and will play your heart out. Teams that do that, they tend to lose.

This isn't an all-star game.

 

[Czechboy]

It's either the Swiss or Czechia. Not sure who the U.S. would rather play.

They want Switzerland.. Czechs decline.

 

[SK94]

I have said this many times already but loyalty matters. What the hell is the point of top players like Gaudreau, Nelson, Jones, etc if they can't make a 4 Nations team despite showing up numerous times in favor of some guys who declined almost every year? Make it make sense to me please (not meant for you ofcourse)???

This. If they take a guy like Keller instead of Johnny and co, there's no point for USA Hockey even to try get more talent into this tournament in the future. Now it's time to set the tone for the future.

Fringe guys like Keller, Boeser etc who have never shown up should be left out. Fringe guys like Johnny, Jones, Nelson and Kane should be in the team.

It would be rather sad to first say that now is the time to come if you want to participate in next season's big tournaments and then in the end these words wouldn't mean a damn thing.

 

[AmericanDream]

This. If they take a guy like Keller instead of Johnny and co, there's no point for USA Hockey even to try get more talent into this tournament in the future. Now it's time to set the tone for the future.

Fringe guys like Keller, Boeser etc who have never shown up should be left out. Fringe guys like Johnny, Jones, Nelson and Kane should be in the team.

It would be rather sad to first say that now is the time to come if you want to participate in next season's big tournaments and then in the end these words wouldn't mean a damn thing.

Yep. It simply makes no sense to me.

How would you reward players who have turned you down repeatedly over others who have shown up? And the talent gap isn't that wide at all with those names mentioned.

Keller has declined 4 straight years. No playoff appearances. He showed up as a rookie in the NHL and when Kane brought the troops. Nothing since.

Guentzel hasn't played ever for USA Hockey. He didn't show last year when his name was originally released for USA Hockey at the WC. I am sure that won management over.

Connor didn't show when they didn't make the playoffs but Samberg did. Connor was "thinking it over" after another first round loss this year, but gee...he decided nope again. But who did answer the call after a first round loss??? Brock Nelson did. Yet again.

Trocheck probably sends USA Hockey calls to an answering service in India. He hasn't played in over a decade for the US and seems jaded from his WJC snub 12 years ago.

Yeah, let's load up on these guys for a tournament of best on best playing for your country lol...

We already have locks in Matthews, Miller, M. Tkachuk, Slavin, etc who haven't played for USA Hockey in ages. The reason they make it is because their skillset is either way above the rest or what they bring to the team we can't duplicate. We need to balance out a roster of guys who have answered the call with some of the skilled guys who haven't for mainly playoff reasons...

 

[mphmiles]

This. If they take a guy like Keller instead of Johnny and co, there's no point for USA Hockey even to try get more talent into this tournament in the future. Now it's time to set the tone for the future.

Fringe guys like Keller, Boeser etc who have never shown up should be left out. Fringe guys like Johnny, Jones, Nelson and Kane should be in the team.

It would be rather sad to first say that now is the time to come if you want to participate in next season's big tournaments and then in the end these words wouldn't mean a damn thing.

I don't know that I'd include Boeser in that group.

Dude's dealt with a laundry list of nagging injuries and personal hardships in his career thus far (plus he was still playing this year) that make his absences from these tournaments a lot more understandable.

 

[ORRFForever]

Trocheck probably sends USA Hockey calls to an answering service in India.

 

[AmericanDream]

I don't know that I'd include Boeser in that group.

Dude's dealt with a laundry list of nagging injuries and personal hardships in his career thus far (plus he was still playing this year) that make his absences from these tournaments a lot more understandable.

Boeser has gone through a lot but he has played 5 full NHL seasons of missing the playoffs and he never came to play for the US once. I would say his chance of making this team is almost 0.

 

[AmericanDream]

Anyone think we see any changes after a 10 goal win???

Maybe Lindgren gets the net tomorrow?

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Probably have to do something with Zegras.

If I were him, I would put on my best impression of a 5 year old walking up to his neighbor's door, knocking, and saying "Hi Mr. Hynes, can Matt Boldy come out to play with me?"

 

[WarriorofTime]

"And not to be that guy, but Gaudreau's teams didn't even medal in 3 of the previous 4 World Championships he played, so that'd be really rewarding someone with a participation trophy in the truest sense of that term."

Yah cause yag know...Gaudreau should have played better in net during his previous appearances. Placing blame on one player, to where his team finished or why they didn't medal, is pretty ridiculous.

Who "placed blame"? Wasn't me...

If we're gonna reward players for "showing up", that's different (a participation trophy) compared to rewarding players who show up AND WIN. Count me out for focusing on who had some stats against Kazakhstan when other guys are consistently playing in the NHL Playoffs.

Show up and win = get rewarded.

Show up and finish 6th = meh. No special bonus for you.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

He’s tiny, has no physical game whatsoever

Being small doesn't make a player one dimensional.

and no longer is productive enough to make up for it. If he gets back to being Johnny Hockey, which is entirely possible, it’s a different story.

I don't think you appreciate how little help Gaudreau had in Columbus. He had nobody to get him the puck. He was the only forward who could consistently make high danger passes - look at their primary assist numbers from last year:

Hard to put up goals and secondary assists when you're the only guy who can consistently set up primary scoring chances.

But his primary assist numbers were still very much elite this year, despite playing on a terrible team who changed coaches right before the season, giving a rookie coach with a defensive system the reins.

After an understandably slow first month under that brand new coach, Gaudreau was 2nd to only Matthew Tkachuk in primary assists among LWs from mid-November on.

And not to be that guy, but Gaudreau's teams didn't even medal in 3 of the previous 4 World Championships he played, so that'd be really rewarding someone with a participation trophy in the truest sense of that term.

Ignoring the fact that you're trying draw conclusions about a team's performance from one player, the US has only medaled 5 times in the last 20 years (25%), the same rate at which we've medaled with Gaudreau.

Maybe we should leave off Matthews, Eichel, and J Hughes as well? We've medaled a total of 0 times in the 5 years they've played...

Gaudreau has a WC stat line of 38gp 13g 43p +15 and somehow he's the problem?

Who "placed blame"? Wasn't me...

If we're gonna reward players for "showing up", that's different (a participation trophy) compared to rewarding players who show up AND WIN.

How about guys that show up and perform?

Count me out for focusing on who had some stats against Kazakhstan when other guys are consistently playing in the NHL Playoffs.

Yeah, how dare Johnny Gaudreau not carry that Columbus team to the playoffs.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Ignoring the fact that you're trying draw conclusions about a team's performance from one player, the US has only medaled 5 times in the last 20 years (25%), the same rate at which we've medaled with Gaudreau.

Maybe we should leave off Matthews, Eichel, and J Hughes as well? We've medaled a total of 0 times in the 5 years they've played...

So is it your position that Johnny Gaudreau is equally worthy as Auston Matthews, Jack Eichel and Jack Hughes of making an Olympic roster? Or am I being as uncharitable in my read of your comment as you are of mine?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So is it your position that Johnny Gaudreau is equally worthy as Auston Matthews, Jack Eichel and Jack Hughes of making an Olympic roster? Or am I being as uncharitable in my read of your comment as you are of mine?

My position is that it's ridiculous to hold the team's medal performances against Gaudreau.

 

[WarriorofTime]

My position is that it's ridiculous to hold the team's medal performances against Gaudreau.

And my position that it's ridiculous to give an extra special boost to someone for showing up for teams that don't even medal to "reward them for their service" if there are better players available.