Proposal: Trade Juuse Saros

[Bringer of Jollity]

Brunette indicated in that postmortem that he's only going to play guys who play with sandpaper and grit. He wants guys who'll play that physical style of game. Which isn't really very different than what Hynes wanted. Skilled players need not apply. (Looking at you Connor Bedard.)

Explains why they wanted Duchene gone so badly, and why Glass, Tomasino, and Fabbro are likely to be traded/dumped soon.

It's not necessarily anti-skill, more a specific type of skill player. Boston Bruins-esque. They didn't have a Bedard, but Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand, etc... are all guys that had good offensive skill but also are very strong on the defensive end and aren't rubbed out of the game in a physical contest.

 

[Kat Predator]

It's not necessarily anti-skill, more a specific type of skill player. Boston Bruins-esque. They didn't have a Bedard, but Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand, etc... are all guys that had good offensive skill but also are very strong on the defensive end and aren't rubbed out of the game in a physical contest.

Exactly. Hopefully and assuming this is really the blueprint for the plan going forward, they stop wasting draft picks and time on undersized players and players who "go around the wall" and focus on players that "go through the wall".

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Exactly. Hopefully and assuming this is really the blueprint for the plan going forward, they stop wasting draft picks and time on undersized players and players who "go around the wall" and focus on players that "go through the wall".

I think even last draft however we may have taken some players who aren't really the "go through the wall" types. I mean, it's fine if that is going to be your identity going forward. I can't argue that these playoffs certainly indicate that the NHL isn't changing at all, and those types are going to continue to have that necessary added playoff value.

But then get your departments on the same page. Stop wasting assets. Don't burn the draft picks on those other guys. And if you do happen to have some of the softer/skillsier types still around, is it better to crater any trade value they might have and just liquidate them, or, when your franchise is in a bit of a transition period, could you afford to invest a little into at least making them look like tradeable assets so that you can recoup some of the investment first?

 

[triggrman]

Brunette indicated in that postmortem that he's only going to play guys who play with sandpaper and grit. He wants guys who'll play that physical style of game. Which isn't really very different than what Hynes wanted. Skilled players need not apply. (Looking at you Connor Bedard.)

Explains why they wanted Duchene gone so badly, and why Glass, Tomasino, and Fabbro are likely to be traded/dumped soon.

Carrier, Statsney, Evangelista, Novak, are all undersized guys under Brunette that had good years.

 

[Kat Predator]

Carrier, Statsney, Evangelista, Novak, are all undersized guys under Brunette that had good years.

Just have to wait and see what they do. The new regime is very new.

 

[Kat Predator]

I think even last draft however we may have taken some players who aren't really the "go through the wall" types. I mean, it's fine if that is going to be your identity going forward. I can't argue that these playoffs certainly indicate that the NHL isn't changing at all, and those types are going to continue to have that necessary added playoff value.

But then get your departments on the same page. Stop wasting assets. Don't burn the draft picks on those other guys. And if you do happen to have some of the softer/skillsier types still around, is it better to crater any trade value they might have and just liquidate them, or, when your franchise is in a bit of a transition period, could you afford to invest a little into at least making them look like tradeable assets so that you can recoup some of the investment first?

I think that's a fair point and agree. I'm not especially fond of the approach of a new regime flushing assets in preference to getting "the right guys". The frequency of it not really working out as well as they envision is pretty high. That includes the whole range from the new regime is "smarter than everyone" idiots to they have a pretty good system, but other people have more talent and good systems as well so they'll never be more than an also-ran.

Being able to coach a style and system that complements the players that are on hand is my preferred approach. Systems don't win championships. Players that make plays do. Coaching is about putting players in the best conditions to make plays.

 

[BigFatCat999]

Getting a star forward is low hanging fruit but I look at the defensive depth chart and the Predators end is looking older

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Getting a star forward is low hanging fruit but I look at the defensive depth chart and the Predators end is looking older

Yeah, since we need better offense and better defense, it would definitely balance things if we traded our goalie too.

 

[glenngineer]

Yeah, since we need better offense and better defense, it would definitely balance things if we traded our goalie too.

I’ll throw a scenario out to you.

Re-sign Lankinen for 2-3 years. Let him platoon with Askarov until Askarov shows he’s ready to be the full time starter, which is the reason he was drafted.

At the same time, move Saros. It could be for help up front, back end or both. Say you get two solid players in return, one of which is either a top 6 forward or a top 4 defender, would you do it? What if you end up with a top pairing defender? Let’s just say a valuable piece that’ll be in your lineup for the next 10 years, do you do it?

At some point, you have to have faith in the guys you drafted. If not, hire new scouts and player development coaches.

We’re not winning with Saros in the playoffs. Time to rip the band aid off. Time to get rid of the distraction of what we do with him. Get assets, move forward.

 

[Armourboy]

I generally can't stand Jared Stillman but he did ask some questions that did make me think, what have we done in the playoffs with Saros? Would the outcome really have changed if we didn't have him? What would David Poile do and is that a route we want to continue going down 25 years later? Is the money spent on this Saros contract the best way to use that money?

I think Saros frankly matters less than we think he does until we get some better high end talent and depth. We kind of proved this season we can still make the playoffs with an average goalie because frankly that is all he was.

 

[herzausstein]

I generally can't stand Jared Stillman but he did ask some questions that did make me think, what have we done in the playoffs with Saros? Would the outcome really have changed if we didn't have him? What would David Poile do and is that a route we want to continue going down 25 years later? Is the money spent on this Saros contract the best way to use that money?

I think Saros frankly matters less than we think he does until we get some better high end talent and depth. We kind of proved this season we can still make the playoffs with an average goalie because frankly that is all he was.

It isnt a bad question to ask and frankly with his sv% this year could we of made the playoffs with a different goalie. It wasnt all on Saros for sure since the team played like straight ass and abandoned him many times but could a platoon tandem of Lankinen/ and Stolarz/Brossoit be enough to try and sneak this team through with similar results and bring Askarov up for a couple runs here and there?

Not a bad thought experiment. Dont know how trotz feels about it.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I'm a big defender of Saros playoff performances but even then at best all he's gotten us is a couple wins in a series we still lost. I agree that unless you think he is a piece that gets us over the top within the next 3-4 years we should just go ahead and move on. If we do think he is that piece and sign him than the expectation should be we make a serious run in the next several seasons and Trotz/Bruno should be judge accordingly. I'm perfectly fine to give Trotz/Bruno time to get us up to contender status and I think they do get that opportunity but I personally feel we're still on the trajectory of remaining in the mushy middle for the foreseeable future and keeping Saros is emblematic of that mindset. Hope to be proven wrong though.

 

[jumb0]

I generally can't stand Jared Stillman but he did ask some questions that did make me think, what have we done in the playoffs with Saros? Would the outcome really have changed if we didn't have him?

We would have lost game 6 4-0 instead of 1-0

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I generally can't stand Jared Stillman but he did ask some questions that did make me think, what have we done in the playoffs with Saros? Would the outcome really have changed if we didn't have him? What would David Poile do and is that a route we want to continue going down 25 years later? Is the money spent on this Saros contract the best way to use that money?

I think Saros frankly matters less than we think he does until we get some better high end talent and depth. We kind of proved this season we can still make the playoffs with an average goalie because frankly that is all he was.

Add to that I think you also don't waste a #11 pick on a guy, who then has basically develops as expected/hoped for, just so you can ride primarily with the original guy for the better part of the next decade.

 

[Viqsi]

Some part of me is starting to daydream about Saros-for-Marner scenarios and this to me is the clearest indication yet that I've completely lost my f***ing mind.

 

[originalpredfan]

My biggest worry about Saros is that Trotz may get tempted to pull a Poile and resign him long term and top money. Which I'm afraid would eventually turn out to be another buy out and future draining of cap dollars. We are paying enough guys not on our roster already. Saros is small for a goalie. Most teams realize shooting high on him is the key. Watch how often he gets in a crouch leaving the top half of the net open. Granted he still makes some spectacular saves, but overall he concerns me. I'm in the camp of keeping Lankinen and bringing up the guy we felt was worth an 11th first round pick. At least that way we have extra dollars to go aggressively after top offensive or defensive talent. Keeping Saros or playing Askarov both entail a risk so either my opinion or someone else's who feels differently both end up being a crap shoot.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I'm a big defender of Saros playoff performances but even then at best all he's gotten us is a couple wins in a series we still lost. I agree that unless you think he is a piece that gets us over the top within the next 3-4 years we should just go ahead and move on. If we do think he is that piece and sign him than the expectation should be we make a serious run in the next several seasons and Trotz/Bruno should be judge accordingly. I'm perfectly fine to give Trotz/Bruno time to get us up to contender status and I think they do get that opportunity but I personally feel we're still on the trajectory of remaining in the mushy middle for the foreseeable future and keeping Saros is emblematic of that mindset. Hope to be proven wrong though.

I'm an even bigger defender of Saros' regular season performances. Playoffs... well we haven't had the teams to win playoff rounds with anybody in net. But it's also not so easy to even make the playoffs. And, aside from this season, I think Saros had been on a nice string of seasons where he proved to be a key component of getting us more points in the standings than we would have had with average goaltending. The season before, it was 20+ points. Now, the tankers will say that's actually a bad thing. But I see it as a good thing. Getting into the playoffs in the 32-team league isn't easy or automatic, and having Saros could be the difference maker.

I just don't believe in the "mushy middle", really. Get in the playoffs, hope to hit your streak at the right time, that's worth something too. Since getting all the other pieces we need is basically going to be impossible/down to extreme luck.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I'm an even bigger defender of Saros' regular season performances. Playoffs... well we haven't had the teams to win playoff rounds with anybody in net. But it's also not so easy to even make the playoffs. And, aside from this season, I think Saros had been on a nice string of seasons where he proved to be a key component of getting us more points in the standings than we would have had with average goaltending. The season before, it was 20+ points. Now, the tankers will say that's actually a bad thing. But I see it as a good thing. Getting into the playoffs in the 32-team league isn't easy or automatic, and having Saros could be the difference maker.

I just don't believe in the "mushy middle", really. Get in the playoffs, hope to hit your streak at the right time, that's worth something too. Since getting all the other pieces we need is basically going to be impossible/down to extreme luck.

We've discussed it before but its really still just the contract issue. If Saros will sign for <5 years at a reasonable AAV with no trade protection than you just ride with him and hope Askarov takes the reins sometime in that interval. If he wants more than that than that is where the situation gets tricky. I'm more optimistic that you're right and we may be able to pull that off given the subpar (at least numberswise) performance Saros put up this postseason than I was more previously at least.

 

[BigFatCat999]

Some part of me is starting to daydream about Saros-for-Marner scenarios and this to me is the clearest indication yet that I've completely lost my f***ing mind.

Come to the dark side....


Edit; that being said I think it would be Saros and Tommasino for Marner

 

[drwpreds]

Some part of me is starting to daydream about Saros-for-Marner scenarios and this to me is the clearest indication yet that I've completely lost my f***ing mind.

I know it is extremely complicated and there are risks and red flags surrounding Marner. But if that trade was announced today, I am not gonna lie- my first reaction would be extreme excitement.

So you are not alone- lol

 

[Flgatorguy87]

I know it is extremely complicated and there are risks and red flags surrounding Marner. But if that trade was announced today, I am not gonna lie- my first reaction would be extreme excitement.

So you are not alone- lol

Completely agree. That's a deal where I am extremely excited and just conclude we will figure out the rest when we get there.

 

[herzausstein]

I know it is extremely complicated and there are risks and red flags surrounding Marner. But if that trade was announced today, I am not gonna lie- my first reaction would be extreme excitement.

So you are not alone- lol

I would have alot of apprehension.

Followed by intrigue... wondering where this roster shakeup is going.

Excitement possible by opening day depending on what other moves occur.

Marner is a pretty premium piece. There are just some other holes i see on this roster that i think need addressing as well. As long as they get addressed in some form/fashion as well, i can probably get behind a marner move (assuming he doesnt turn into a diva and demand huge trucks of cash).

 

[Predsanddead24]

I feel like we had these exact same conversations about Stone and Tkachuk when they were on the market (e.g. the timing isn't right, we actually need a center, the contract will be too big, the assets needed to get him are too much) and in hindsight I wish we had been the one to make those trades. If Marner is willing to re-sign here I think you have to take the opportunity to trade for him.

 

[Soundgarden]

Hell, if we're not going to actually play our best prospects or have our 1sts play full seasons with us then why not go for star players.

 

[Armourboy]

Only real issue I have with Marner is the money, I'm not paying him 11 million a season, he should have never been making that to start with. Now I did hear somewhere this morning that people think in a different city he would take 9-9.5 and that might be doable, just not sure that paying two wingers is where I want to be. No doubt though he makes the team better.