Explain/discuss this. Habs have 6 D in the top 20 for Giveaways/60

[Habs Halifax]

Interesting find and wondering how/why and what can we do to improve?

Kova, Matheson, Xhekaj, Barron, Savard, Guhle all in the top 20 in giveaways/60. Over the last two seasons with min 50 games played.

Has to be a system problem and lack of depth up the middle?

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[CHfan1]

Interesting to see the difference between home and away games.

Home giveaways/60:

Kovacevic: 4.07
Matheson: 2.95
Xhekaj: 3.04
Barron: 3.20
Savard: 3.53
Guhle: 3.07

Away giveaways/60:

Kovacevic: 1.55
Matheson: 1.38
Xhekaj: 1.56
Barron: 1.36
Savard: 1.12
Guhle: 0.61

 

[ReHabs]

The difference Home and Away makes me think we have a very generous counter in town. How many Habs are topX if you only count away games?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Interesting to see the difference between home and away games.

Home giveaways/60:

Kovacevic: 4.07
Matheson: 2.95
Xhekaj: 3.04
Barron: 3.20
Savard: 3.53
Guhle: 3.07

Away giveaways/60:

Kovacevic: 1.55
Matheson: 1.38
Xhekaj: 1.56
Barron: 1.36
Savard: 1.12
Guhle: 0.61

Very interesting in terms of the difference.

The difference Home and Away makes me think we have a very generous counter in town. How many Habs are topX if you only count away games?

That thought ran through my mind as well. Someone has to talk to that person if it's the same person. That's quite a difference between road/home where you don't get match-up advantage on the road.

 

[lamp9post]

Interesting to see the difference between home and away games.

Home giveaways/60:

Kovacevic: 4.07
Matheson: 2.95
Xhekaj: 3.04
Barron: 3.20
Savard: 3.53
Guhle: 3.07

Away giveaways/60:

Kovacevic: 1.55
Matheson: 1.38
Xhekaj: 1.56
Barron: 1.36
Savard: 1.12
Guhle: 0.61

Looks like there could be a discrepancy with how these stats are tracked between venues. I remember reading a number of years ago that certain buildings counted hits much more liberally than others, perhaps that's the case here as well with giveaways.

Regardless, I'm not surprised to see several players high on this list. It is a young d-core on a rebuilding team with lots of players playing over their heads in the lineup.

 

[morhilane]

The difference Home and Away makes me think we have a very generous counter in town. How many Habs are topX if you only count away games?

Habs have been top 5 worst (as a team) in giveaway most seasons since 2008. That spawn multiple coaches, systems and dmens. Generous counters at the Bell Center is the only way I can see that being explained.

 

[salbutera]

Interesting find and wondering how/why and what can we do to improve?

Kova, Matheson, Xhekaj, Barron, Savard, Guhle all in the top 20 in giveaways/60. Over the last two seasons with min 50 games played.

Has to be a system problem and lack of depth up the middle?

Weak Fwd back checking - Aaron Ward mentioned during the year, the analytics company he works for has clear data showing Habs were bottom-3 in the league for yielding Dzone entries & odd man rushes

 

[Habs Halifax]

Fwd back checking - Aaron Ward mentioned during the year, the analytics company he works for has clear data showing Habs were bottom-3 in the league for yielding Dzone entries & odd man rushes

There are a few areas that need to improve if we are sniffing at any wild card spot next year. It's deeper than just youth development and point totals.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Habs have been top 5 worst (as a team) in giveaway most seasons since 2008. That spawn multiple coaches, systems and dmens. Generous counters at the Bell Center is the only way I can see that being explained.

I remember this being explained on RDS a long long time ago, likely around 2008-2010.

The stats counters at the Bell Center are more generous on giveaways than most arenas.

 

[calder candidate]

Interesting to see the difference between home and away games.

Home giveaways/60:

Kovacevic: 4.07
Matheson: 2.95
Xhekaj: 3.04
Barron: 3.20
Savard: 3.53
Guhle: 3.07

Away giveaways/60:

Kovacevic: 1.55
Matheson: 1.38
Xhekaj: 1.56
Barron: 1.36
Savard: 1.12
Guhle: 0.61

Interesting to see the difference between home and away games.

Home giveaways/60:

Kovacevic: 4.07
Matheson: 2.95
Xhekaj: 3.04
Barron: 3.20
Savard: 3.53
Guhle: 3.07

Away giveaways/60:

Kovacevic: 1.55
Matheson: 1.38
Xhekaj: 1.56
Barron: 1.36
Savard: 1.12
Guhle: 0.61

Seem clear to me that there isn’t any significant difference in giveaways home vs. Away clearly the stat guy in Montréal is way better or worst than every where else… Also not all turn over are equal.

 

[WatchfulElm]

Teams stats should tell a better story.

For 2023-24

Home games
499 gva (4th)
226 tka (30th)

Away games
251 gva (16th)
237 tka (26th)

Well, no, it doesn't make more sense. Obviously, there are big discrepencies between arenas. But it doesn't explain why the Habs are 30th in tka at home if the Bell Center is being so generous with this stats.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

This is pretty serious. If MSL does not address that side of the ice convincingly, he needs a better assistant coach who can shore that up. Though part of the problem is lack of forward talent, where the team spends most of its time defending. They also need an analytics expert who can parse the disparity between home and away performances.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Giveaway takeaway stats are wildly different from arena to arena. They can't be trusted.

 

[Habs]

I blame stupid Burrows for everything, guys a mouth breather

 

[Rapala]

Weak Fwd back checking - Aaron Ward mentioned during the year, the analytics company he works for has clear data showing Habs were bottom-3 in the league for yielding Dzone entries & odd man rushes

It's not like we haven't harped on this all season long. For the former it's noticeable when anyone stands up at the blue line at all; thank you Arber Xhekaj. Regarding the latter awful giveaways at the opposing blue or simple poor puck management and decision making are at fault. There are some basic fundamentals that have to be enforced next year if this team wants to become serious. It starts with the vets playing the right way.

 

[BLONG7]

I think at this point, with this particular group we are just a young D corps. And our two vets are also turnover machines, so................
I did notice later in the year, it seemed to get much better, and the entire d corps was much better at less turnovers, and moving out of our end.

I am not conivnced the style of play MSL is wanting them to play, is the way to go. We never seem to have the puck, and we run around in our end......hate that man to man crap in our own end.....

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think at this point, with this particular group we are just a young D corps. And our two vets are also turnover machines, so................
I did notice later in the year, it seemed to get much better, and the entire d corps was much better at less turnovers, and moving out of our end.

I am not conivnced the style of play MSL is wanting them to play, is the way to go. We never seem to have the puck, and we run around in our end......hate that man to man crap in our own end.....

You're correct. From Jan 1s+, only Kova is in the top 20 in giveaways/60. It improved and you better bet the Habs management noticed that trend as well. That's with no filter of games. If I set it to 20 games, Kova is 1st, Struble is 8th, Savard is 17. Matheson improved to 25th.

Hutson with his 2 games is in the top 20 mix though. His giveaways/60 was a whopping 5.28 but at the same time, his takeaways were also impressive at 3.96.

I really do think Struble, Hutson, Reinbacher should start in the AHL. Let them work on both ends of the game in high usage in the AHL. Add Engstrom and you got a good top 4 mix for Laval.

If no changes (boring yes) but this is what I think we do to start the new season.
Matheson / Guhle
Harris / Savard
Xhekaj / Mailloux
Barron, Kova

Barron, Harris, Mailloux alternate in/out.

Struble, Hutson, Reinbacher, Engstrom in the AHL.

 

[Frankenheimer]

A lot of these stats go hand in hand with overall performance and probably correlates with game patterns (falling behind early for example). It would be a mistake to deduce from these stats that giveaways are the cause of bad performance and that this can be rectified independently of overall performance. More wins, more goals, will naturally bring down this number.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Giveaway takeaway stats are wildly different from arena to arena. They can't be trusted.

Deep neural networks for Human Pose Estimation could measure this accurately from video, in real time. I could put a PhD student on it if the Habs wanted to fund it.

 

[ReHabs]

It's not like we haven't harped on this all season long. For the former it's noticeable when anyone stands up at the blue line at all; thank you Arber Xhekaj. Regarding the latter awful giveaways at the opposing blue or simple poor puck management and decision making are at fault. There are some basic fundamentals that have to be enforced next year if this team wants to become serious. It starts with the vets playing the right way.

How can you rebuild and call it successful if you don't have basic fundamentals down pat?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Giveaway takeaway stats are wildly different from arena to arena. They can't be trusted.

Depends on how deep you trust it (like +/-). With our situation, it does kind of fit with the giveaways/60. We are in the bottom 5 in team D and our D is young.

I'd take it with a grain of salt vs going all out and not using it at all.

A lot of these stats go hand in hand with overall performance and probably correlates with game patterns (falling behind early for example). It would be a mistake to deduce from these stats that giveaways are the cause of bad performance and that this can be rectified independently of overall performance. More wins, more goals, will naturally bring down this number.

Youth has an effect on this no doubt. We are asking our young D to play important roles and there has been some movement in terms of consistent pairings (injury factor).

It should improve but I was surprised to see how bad we were in this area though.

 

[Milhouse40]

Interesting find and wondering how/why and what can we do to improve?

Kova, Matheson, Xhekaj, Barron, Savard, Guhle all in the top 20 in giveaways/60. Over the last two seasons with min 50 games played.

Has to be a system problem and lack of depth up the middle?

Or maybe it's just that we have one of the youngest D in the league and our vets are covering for them too.

Barron, Guhle, Xhekaj and Struble are all in the Top 20 of the youngest D in the NHL (40+games)

 

[Habs Halifax]

Or maybe it's just that we have one of the youngest D in the league and our vets are covering for them too.

Barron, Guhle, Xhekaj and Struble are all in the Top 20 of the youngest D in the NHL (40+games)

View attachment 870536

Age/maturity is definitely a factor in this.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Deep neural networks for Human Pose Estimation could measure this accurately from video, in real time. I could put a PhD student on it if the Habs wanted to fund it.

 

[Beer and Chips]

Or maybe it's just that we have one of the youngest D in the league and our vets are covering for them too.

Barron, Guhle, Xhekaj and Struble are all in the Top 20 of the youngest D in the NHL (40+games)

View attachment 870536

But what are the stats for these other young defensemen? It's fine saying that they are young.