CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[Legion34]

Great..... And the value of Leafs and MLSE been directly affected by the Coyotes?? Somehow I'd say no.




So??? I was actually for TED being put up to a public referendum. If you were following along this thread you'd know that rather than popping in every few months.

And I don't have control over who posts what. You want to be critical? Fine. Knock yourself out. Just don't be surprised if I respond and point out where you're assumptions are wrong.

The value has been directly affected by the coyotes absolutely. How much or how little is irrelevant.

Even if it’s 100 bucks that’s probably more than the vast majority of people in the coyotes catchment area.

People clearly aren’t paying money to watch the team.

 

[Ciao]

We're talking about the effect of NHL franchises on the $128-billion CAD OMERS pension fund?

Sheesh.

I think I have some earwax to clean out, or a windmill to tilt at, or something else that's less of a waste of time and effort to do.

 

[Legion34]

We're talking about the effect of NHL franchises on the $128-billion CAD OMERS pension fund?

Sheesh.

I think I have some earwax to clean out, or a windmill to tilt at, or something else that's less of a waste of time and effort to do.

The sad thing is it still has more direct impact on the lives of Ontarians than the vast majority of people in the city that has the team

That’s literally the point. There are about 12 junior teams in ontario that get more fans and can at least turn something close to a profit.

Teams fold/move all the time. Maybe they could actually make money somewhere else

 

[LT]

Let's move on about the pension please

 

[TheLegend]

The value has been directly affected by the coyotes absolutely. How much or how little is irrelevant.

Even if it’s 100 bucks that’s probably more than the vast majority of people in the coyotes catchment area.

People clearly aren’t paying money to watch the team.

You’ve been getting more smarmy with every post. Not giving your credibility much help here.

 

[dj4aces]

People clearly aren’t paying money to watch the team.

You do realize that college barn holds only 4600 people, and it's sold out every night, right? Like it or not, people are clearly paying far above market value to watch the Coyotes. Whether the Coyotes will continue to draw sellout crowds every night when a 18k seat building is finally constructed is a different question no one could possibly have the answer to at this time. However, having that barn closer to the fans certainly helps.

 

[aqib]

This isn’t really accurate fyi if you leave early. You cannot just keep your pension and get 2% of your best 3-5 years. I actually looked into it. I was going to change lines of
Work completely at 20 years and try to take 40%. It works out like that only if completely your 30/80-85 factor.

Look at your example. You think you can quit after 5 years of 100k and they will pay you 10k from 50 for the rest of your life? That’s hundreds of thousands of dollars. That’s insane.

You can’t do it. I have Been in 3 pensions in the past 21 years. The first one I rolled over the second I got paid out. Bought the OMERS and had to put the surplus in RRSP.

No I am not under the impression I can retire whenever I realize it only kicks in when you reach retirement age. I simplified it for the sake of this conversation.

 

[aqib]

Great..... And the value of Leafs and MLSE been directly affected by the Coyotes?? Somehow I'd say no.

In a round about way. If the Coyotes were a thriving franchise that brought more revenue into the league that would impact the value of MLSE. How much? I don't know seeing as the Leafs are only one component of MLSE, and the pension plan only owns 5%. Also, OMERS actually bought a 20% share of Kilmer Sports (Larry Tannenbaum's holding company) so we don't know what else he may have there.

Is the impact of the Coyotes material to the return on OMERS which has $124 billion of assets under management? No.

 

[TheLegend]

In a round about way. If the Coyotes were a thriving franchise that brought more revenue into the league that would impact the value of MLSE. How much? I don't know seeing as the Leafs are only one component of MLSE, and the pension plan only owns 5%. Also, OMERS actually bought a 20% share of Kilmer Sports (Larry Tannenbaum's holding company) so we don't know what else he may have there.

Is the impact of the Coyotes material to the return on OMERS which has $124 billion of assets under management? No.

It is..... and always has been...... a very weak point to stand on in regards to the Coyotes.

Because even if the Coyotes were to turn it completely around and become a revenue generator the costs to attending a game in places like Toronto would never go down. They might even go up.

 

[MayDayMayDay]

The coyotes are done in Arizona & have been done for a long time now & nobody in Arizona wants them to build an arena in there town because they cannot pay there bills & there is no way they will get any public funding because there bad credit so in my opinion they should start hearing offers from Houston & Salt Lake City on relocating there next season .

Holy run on sentence Batman.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Doesn't matter whether or not I am or aren't taking it personally as it doesn't involve you. You constantly say that because we aren't directly impacted by whatever situation we're talking about, we shouldn't be talking about, so I'm simply telling you to take your own advice by not involving yourself in something that doesn't involve you.

I mean yea sure. Have a conversation but goddamn you people are making it so personal for no good reason.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The value has been directly affected by the coyotes absolutely. How much or how little is irrelevant.

Yea, I am gonna need you to show some proof there, Warren Buffet.

There will always be a team that struggles to draw at the gate and do poorly, somebody has to be at the bottom. Any league, any time.

LIke I've been saying, its amazing how people like this dude think they know how to make money better than NHL owners.

 

[Legion34]

Yea, I am gonna need you to show some proof there, Warren Buffet.

There will always be a team that struggles to draw at the gate and do poorly, somebody has to be at the bottom. Any league, any time.

LIke I've been saying, its amazing how people like this dude think they know how to make money better than NHL owners.

Than the owners that can’t pay the hot dog guy? Maybe?

The rest absolutely not. And you have your head in the sand if you think the “owners” are all on board with this. It is Bettmans sunk cost fallacy and arrogance that is keeping them there. Not AM business acumen and 31 other owners.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Bettman hates Canada so much, he's purposely keeping the Coyotes in AZ to mess with investments from up North. You can't make this stuff up folks.

 

[aqib]

Yea, I am gonna need you to show some proof there, Warren Buffet.

There will always be a team that struggles to draw at the gate and do poorly, somebody has to be at the bottom. Any league, any time.

LIke I've been saying, its amazing how people like this dude think they know how to make money better than NHL owners.

Just because people are rich enough to buy an NHL team doesn't make them experts on everything. You can be a brilliant hedge fund manager but that doesn't mean you're great at the business of sports.

 

[TheLegend]

Just because people are rich enough to buy an NHL team doesn't make them experts on everything. You can be a brilliant hedge fund manager but that doesn't mean you're great at the business of sports.

Yet you have a man who is a self made billionaire and has managed over the last 40 years to survive a recession and pandemic without having to relinquish anything he's ever acquired, that spans several business genre which he's came into every one of them cold.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Yet you have a man who is a self made billionaire and has managed over the last 40 years to survive a recession and pandemic without having to relinquish anything he's ever acquired, that spans several business genre which he's came into every one of them cold.

Cold as Mullett ice regarding TED.

 

[TheLegend]

Cold as Mullett ice regarding TED.

Touché.

Still has the team though, doesn’t he?

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Just because people are rich enough to buy an NHL team doesn't make them experts on everything. You can be a brilliant hedge fund manager but that doesn't mean you're great at the business of sports.

I agree just because they are billionaires doesn’t make them great at everything. But making money is their expertise. Business of sport is still business last time I checked. And considering NHL makes money hand over fist there is no indication what so ever NHL management is bad at it. Moral failure is another story but that’s for another time.

Again, have to keep reminding people Coyotes would have been gone long ago if owners wanted them to. It’s really that simple.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Touché.

Still has the team though, doesn’t he?

He does and I suspect/hope he will keep it. Despite my being critical, I haven't wavered on that. It's quite possible the TED debacle pissed me off more than the NHL, but as I said in another thread, ownership may have the NHL over a barrel regarding any attempt to force a sale.

 

[TheLegend]

Some rumblings..... (and I know what today is.... )

Report: Group considering pro soccer stadium in Phoenix area

A group led by a former Arizona Coyotes leader is eyeing land and legislation to potentially bring a pro soccer stadium to the Phoenix area.

arizonasports.com

Main source for the article is here:

Arizona legislation could help Coyotes arena financing, bring top-level soccer to Phoenix area

A former Arizona Coyotes executive is endorsing state legislation that he hopes will help a group unconnected to the team build a mixed-use development near Mesa that could include a professional soccer stadium.

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

(note: SBJ articles are paywalled but I was able to access it through the embedded link in the Arizona Sports article.)


Coyotes are currently NOT part of this effort. It's being led by a former Coyotes executive who left the team in December '23. And a former lobbyist who is no longer connected to the team either. But the article suggests this legislation could be a benefit they could take advantage of, if passed.

 

[awfulwaffle]

That legislation is exactly what TED was no? Sales tax in the district would help fund the construction. Round and round we go lol.

 

[TheLegend]

That legislation is exactly what TED was no? Sales tax in the district would help fund the construction. Round and round we go lol.

Not exactly.

AIUI….. The law as it stands now…. Allows for a surcharge up to 9% on top of any current taxes. It was adopted in 2021 on behalf of the Diamondbacks to help getrenovations to Chase Field. It also requires the city and county to be on board.

The Diamondbacks however chose not to go this route and tack more costs onto the fans (if you want to believe that).

What appears to be going on now by the pro soccer group is to amend this law get around the city/country requirement.

One other point from the article is that Phoenix currently cannot help Meruelo financially with his project because of their lease agreement with the Suns (and Ishiba). Whether that extends to GPLETs or anything else I don’t know.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Not exactly.

AIUI….. The law as it stands now…. Allows for a surcharge up to 9% on top of any current taxes. It was adopted in 2021 on behalf of the Diamondbacks to help getrenovations to Chase Field. It also requires the city and county to be on board.

The Diamondbacks however chose not to go this route and tack more costs onto the fans (if you want to believe that).

What appears to be going on now by the pro soccer group is to amend this law get around the city/country requirement.

One other point from the article is that Phoenix currently cannot help Meruelo financially with his project because of their lease agreement with the Suns (and Ishiba). Whether that extends to GPLETs or anything else I don’t know.

Can you elaborate on the bolded, please & thanks.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Can you elaborate on the bolded, please & thanks.

Think we'd need a copy of the lease itself. Could be interpreted in many different ways what "economic assistance" could be.