Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[abo9]

It almost needs a new word. Is it circumvention if the medical issue has been playable for a while, but the timing of going on LTIR is selected just to spend at the deadline, with Eichel returning just in time for the cap to disappear?

Honestly, if the medical issue is real (which it is) then you can't call it circumvention

Ding ding ding.

Its like... recovery manipulation? Instead of playing through injuries, the team rests its best player?

Its kind of only an advantage because of the macho mentality around the league. I bet theres many players with injuries thay could get them on IR, but play through it.

It surprises me to a point that some fans are surprised. These players play through insane stuff in the playoffs... surely its expected that a player in recovery would precipitate his return when it coincides with the playoffs?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

The simplest solution is make the cap apply through the playoffs.

Not quite that simple.

Most playoff teams are above the cap based on salary aav in the playoffs, because they accrue cap space during the season so they can spend at the deadline.

Make it hard cap for the playoffs, kill the trade deadline. And the ad dollars that go with it.

Maybe you can do somthing like the offseason where you can exceed by 10% so it's not so egregious? Not sure.

If you miss all the games from the trade deadline to the playoffs you miss the entire first round? Ensures a team can be cap compliant by the time playoffs start?

This. Well, make the cap count through the playoffs sounds so incredibly simple, and it's not. It's so not. And I say this knowing I've come up with easily a dozen ways to try and make a cap work in the playoffs and then picked every one of them apart with pretty simple examples of why it still fails, and here's 43 steps you have to go through to make the cap apply in the postseason correctly is not going to be a solution the league trots out.

This simplest explanation really is: if the league cared, it could have done something - even something shitty, like it's done with other problems that created more problems that people are still trying to "fix" with shitty non-solutions - long ago. It doesn't care, so bitching about what it's not going to do is a waste of time and energy.

 

[sepHF]

of course they are

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

People think the cap exists for a reason other than to insure owner profits. LOL.

The league doesn't care, the NHLPA doesn't care. The only ones who care are fans of the teams that get f***ed in the process.

While we're at it, let's address the fact that teams with no state tax get an extra 4-10% of effective extra cap space. So not only can Las Vegas abuse LTIR, but they also have something like 10-15% more effective cap space than teams in New York due to tax structures. Again, this doesn't really affect owner profits due to revenue sharing so no one cares except the fans whose teams get f***ed over by the situation.

 

[kingsholygrail]

People think the cap exists for a reason other than to insure owner profits. LOL.

The league doesn't care, the NHLPA doesn't care. The only ones who care are fans of the teams that get f***ed in the process.

While we're at it, let's address the fact that teams with no state tax get an extra 4-10% of effective extra cap space. So not only can Las Vegas abuse LTIR, but they also have something like 10-15% more effective cap space than teams in New York due to tax structures. Again, this doesn't really affect owner profits due to revenue sharing so no one cares except the fans whose teams get f***ed over by the situation.

States with no income tax tend to make that up in sales and property taxes.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

States with no income tax tend to make that up in sales and property taxes.

Florida and NV have property taxes that are lower than national average. I'm too lazy to look up Texas info.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Florida and NV have property taxes that are lower than national average. I'm too lazy to look up Texas info.

I don't blame you. lol Yes, it's nice not to have a state income tax. I just don't think it's a big enough factor.

 

[wavaxa2]

I thought he was expected to be out 4-6 weeks. It's close to six weeks now. Did he have a setback, or...?

 

[Three On Zero]

I thought he was expected to be out 4-6 weeks. It's close to six weeks now. Did he have a setback, or...?

He can be activated tomorrow for all we know, I think Mouser explained it best earlier in the thread. He was likely LTIR’d to activate someone else on the roster.

Vegas had 6 main roster players hurt, they need to start bringing them back in while still being cap compliant with some of the other replacements. It’s not circumventing the cap at all, it’s just juggling players to stay cap compliant

 

[Bizz]

time to start taking away 1st round picks from these cheaters.

 

[zar]

I don't blame you. lol Yes, it's nice not to have a state income tax. I just don't think it's a big enough factor.

When those guys spend even close to half of their net income in that state then I will agree with you. They probably wouldn’t even spend 20% of their income on items where sales tax applies. The property tax factor might make about a $25K difference in total… that a nice dinner for some of these guys. Meanwhile, the difference in income tax is hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions.

It’s a huge advantage.

 

[zar]

If Eichel is activated in the next couple weeks, fine.

If not, and the Golden Cheats trade for another high end talent, only for Eichel to dress in game one of the playoffs… just chalk it up to another cheat, 3rd time in 4 years for a no state income tax team. Uncle Gary will just look away.

 

[Sanderson]

Trying to make the cap count in the playoffs would be very hard to pull off. You can't add up the salaries on a daily basis if there aren't any salaries being paid out anymore.

What you could do though, would be to make only those players eligible fo the playoffs who have been removed from LTIR prior to the end of the regular season. So a team would need to have the capspace to activate the player or he would have to sit out the playoffs.

 

[Cloned]

Stone also got injured tonight I think.

 

[wetcoast]

The simplest solution is make the cap apply through the playoffs.

Or get rid of the hard cap and have a luxury tax like in other pro leagues?

 

[HanSolo]

Yeah with all the trouble Vegas has had with scoring lately, this is the ideal move. Putting a guy who was their top scorer at the time of injury on ice for the rest of the season. Big brain shit, truly.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Meh. If they can. They should. Perfectly within the rules.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

Lol I wanted to give them a break last year because the rumors were that Stone’s injury was potentially career-threatening but now I don’t know if I even believe that.

They seem to pretty much be a lock for the playoffs but losing their #1 center seems like risking a bad first round matchup. This management definitely doesn’t deserve any more benefit of the doubt though.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Trying to make the cap count in the playoffs would be very hard to pull off. You can't add up the salaries on a daily basis if there aren't any salaries being paid out anymore.

What you could do though, would be to make only those players eligible fo the playoffs who have been removed from LTIR prior to the end of the regular season. So a team would need to have the capspace to activate the player or he would have to sit out the playoffs.

The best way to adjust the salary cap would be to set it as a post-tax figure instead of a pre-tax figure and also to either A. require that any team who had a player(s) on LTIR and acquired a player using that cap space and exceeded the salary cap post-trade deadline must keep the injured player(s) off-roster for the first round of the playoffs or B. require that teams in the post-season adhere to the salary cap for the first round of the playoffs only using the same per-game salary calculations as the regular season, even though players are not getting paid.

So, team X loses a player right before the deadline, they can replace that player in an effort to still make the playoffs, but they cannot materially benefit from the injury. Teams should also not benefit from outside vagaries such as local taxes that are addressable with simple modifications to salary cap language.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Fun Fact: Vegas' 20 man Game 5 lineup against the Panthers had a cap charge of ~$80.68 mil. ~$1.82 mil under the cap.

A cap in the playoffs doesn't save Winnipeg or Edmonton or Dallas or Florida. The Knights used a chunk of Stone's LTIR on Quick and Blueger. It also allowed them to keep Kessel rather than having to dump him. That's $6.6 mil for 10 registered playoff games combined.

EDIT: Tampa is still the LTIR king. That 20 man Game 5 lineup against Montreal: ~$89.37 mil. ~$7.87 mil over the cap.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Vegas needs scoring help, they wouldn't leave Eichel out when they're playing this bad without him. He hasn't played for over six weeks and I'm pretty sure he's still our leading PP scorer.

Eichel literally had a surgery in January and Cassidy has said they expect him back early March. Today was Theodore's first game back since November, so they needed the space with the extra callups for our other injuries.

Vegas has had terrible injury luck this year to multiple impact players at a time for long stretches and it has helped derail our season quite a bit, and it appears Stone could be added to that list again.

Who started this? Did they do any research beyond, "Eichel was put on LTIR!?!?"

 

[HanSolo]

Fun Fact: Vegas' 20 man Game 5 lineup against the Panthers had a cap charge of ~$80.68 mil. ~$1.82 mil under the cap.

A cap in the playoffs doesn't save Winnipeg or Edmonton or Dallas or Florida. The Knights used a chunk of Stone's LTIR on Quick and Blueger. It also allowed them to keep Kessel rather than having to dump him. That's $6.6 mil for 10 registered playoff games combined.

EDIT: Tampa is still the LTIR king. That 20 man Game 5 lineup against Montreal: ~$89.37 mil. ~$7.87 mil over the cap.

Nah we don't deal in facts or context here. Just outrage.

 

[The Panther]

Since Nov. 2nd, the Knights are the 21st or 22nd best club in the NHL (below Washington), playing at a pace for an 86 or 87-point season (i.e., not good enough to make the playoffs).

It's possible that they're crapping out. In any case, they're not doing well enough right now to even think of trying to "circumvent" the cap. Eichel is legit injured... again.

Regardless: I understand the financial complications with extending the LTIR / cap rules in the playoffs, but the NHL truly needs to do something to prevent this "obviously-cheating-but-we'll-pretend-not" kind of thing, as it seems to be an issue year after year.

Maybe do something to prevent any team being over the cap just in round one or something...

 

[Mrfenn92]

 

[TheBeard]

He can be activated tomorrow for all we know, I think Mouser explained it best earlier in the thread. He was likely LTIR’d to activate someone else on the roster.

Vegas had 6 main roster players hurt, they need to start bringing them back in while still being cap compliant with some of the other replacements. It’s not circumventing the cap at all, it’s just juggling players to stay cap compliant

Vegas really have two out: Eichel and Carrier. Don’t give me no “Dorofeyev is a huge part of our forward group”