Proposal: Trade Talk #68

[salbutera]

History is not simply repeating cause if they were looking for a quick turnaround, they would not have traded Toffoli. I think we all need to calm down and look at what the actual moves are vs what those "tweets" are from the media.

I think we find out their real strategy once we see the roster to start next season. The biggest issue Bergevin had was drafting/developing and I have no doubt in my mind that Gorton/Hughes and even Molson have a good understanding of what went wrong with Bergevin.

If you look at what we can do in the next two drafts and what we have from 17-21, it can turn around quickly but when someone says quickly, others think next season. I don't believe that's what they really mean and Gorton/Hughes have been clear... there is no timeline and it's fluid season to season.

I think Toffoli simply wanted out, unless Gorton / Hughes were vying for a Cup next season, which isn’t the case, and Cgy came knocking willing to assume the entire term & AAV along w sending a 1st rounder. I also suspect Gorton / Hughes viewed Toffoli as a depreciating asset, who speed could completely fall off a cliff at any time and didn’t fit their vision for the team.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sure they are trying to ice a roster that is premised on speed and possession but they are also trying to do it fast. There have been more than enough quotes lately to suggest that. The’re not going for a long winded rebuild, clearly. They’ve been using “roster transformation” as a euphemism for a reset. You are not aggressively chasing UFAs unless you are vying for a quick turnaround. We shall see.

I'll get more concerned once I see where we stand in Nov. There is a lot that can happen from now till then that reveals the true management strategy. If some fans are looking for tank/100% rebuild, maybe they will be upset. But Toffoli was traded and we are going to make more trades for youth at the deadline and maybe even this summer.

Do we try to sign top UFA? Who knows but some who think we are signing Kadri are going a little overboard. The only top guy I see potentially signing with us is Letang and even that is a stretch.

Probability we are a bubble team next year again? It's low IMO. From what I see today anyways

 

[Yoor]

Anyone thinking they'd get value for Gallagher hasn't been watching games. That's just crazy. That will be a contract dump IF they can find a taker.

I hear Arizona needs to fill a roster...

 

[Runner77]

Actually I believe Molson’s words have consistently been “our fans are not scared of that term” (rebuild), but ownership definitely seems to be..

Yes, last November he claimed that he wasn’t afraid of a rebuild but he was being disingenuous.

“Among the more immediate ones will be the selection of a new general manager. But, when that person is in place, the direction of the team which appeared in the Stanley Cup Final last season may change, too — including the possibility of a rebuild.
“I’m not afraid of that word,” Geoff Molson, the team’s owner, said Monday when discussing the team’s on-ice future. “I think our fans wouldn’t be afraid of that word either.”

Canadiens owner Molson 'not afraid' of rebuild after front office shakeup

 

[Goalfield22]

Not sure it's like that entirely. Personally, I think Gorton/Hughes have explained this well to Molson and they are smart by not saying it's a complete tank/rebuild and they have not set a timeline.

Forget about rumors. Look at the actual moves and what Gorton/Hughes are saying vs what the media is trying to spin at us with click bait narratives. We traded Toffoli for futures so if they were looking to only fill holes, they would have kept him. The narrative I believe is they still will focus on youth/development/draft picks (high draft power) but they also want to ice a fast skating young team and not get blown out every game where it has business revenue issues.

I look at what G/H have said. The Toffoli move makes complete sense as he isn't a player that fits their preferred style of play. Also, they did get a decent prospect in that deal. You can't always just get prospects as it takes two to tango, and some positions are just too hard to fill without drafting (few teams like to trade away top C and RD prospects). They have said they want to make a move in free agency. I also look at what Gorton did in NY.

You are right, but only for a portion of their strategy. Now, I am not fully against this. There is also a lot of negatives for going the high draft pick route for too long. I was just hoping we could guarantee a high draft pick again next draft before doing this.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if we draft Wright/Cooley while signing Letang (and keeping Petry around). If that happens, I would be perfectly fine with this.

 

[Yoor]

Well the reports have been the entire time that we are looking for the Savard return. Which means we haven't even been offered that yet, there's a n opportunity that at the deadline desperation kicks in but it's not looking likely.

Friedman on his recent 32 thoughts mentioned that the buyers feel the sellers market is soft on defenseman and believe they can squeeze sellers. If anything the likelihood is LESS than the Savard return, rather than the MORE.

Thanks for the info, appreciated.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think Toffoli simply wanted out, unless Gorton / Hughes were vying for a Cup next season, which isn’t the case, and Cgy came knocking willing to assume the entire term & AAV along w sending a 1st rounder. I also suspect Gorton / Hughes viewed Toffoli as a depreciating asset, who speed could completely fall off a cliff at any time and didn’t fit their vision for the team.

I don't believe Toffoli wanted out. I think they are getting a lot of calls for several players and they are reviewing them 1/1 in terms of how it makes sense for the future.

I do believe they don't want another disaster season like this one and they want better culture but we have to remember, the new culture of a fast skating team that works hard takes time and the earlier you start that process, the better.

Book mark this or remember. I think we are still looking at a 5-10 range pick next season. Even if Price is 100% healthy. Lets just wait to see what happens at the deadline, at the draft, and after July 1st. I'm pretty sure our roster to start next season won't be a playoff team.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I look at what G/H have said. The Toffoli move makes complete sense as he isn't a player that fits their preferred style of play. Also, they did get a decent prospect in that deal. You can't always just get prospects as it takes two to tango, and some positions are just too hard to fill without drafting (few teams like to trade away top C and RD prospects). They have said they want to make a move in free agency. I also look at what Gorton did in NY.

You are right, but only for a portion of their strategy. Now, I am not fully against this. There is also a lot of negatives for going the high draft pick route for too long. I was just hoping we could guarantee a high draft pick again next draft before doing this.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if we draft Wright/Cooley while signing Letang (and keeping Petry around). If that happens, I would be perfectly fine with this.

Some good context there. I just think we need to calm down a bit. Lets not guess, lets evaluate what we see when we see it.

 

[Runner77]

I hear Arizona needs to fill a roster...

Arizona is running a laundromat disguised as an NHL team.

 

[Goalfield22]

Some good context there. I just think we need to calm down a bit. Lets not guess, lets evaluate what we see when we see it.

I'm calm. Who says I'm not calm? I'M FINE. EVERYTHING'S FINE!!!!!!!!!

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm calm. Who says I'm not calm? I'M FINE. EVERYTHING'S FINE!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bouboumaster]

Do you want Hughes to trade him for a 2nd and B prospect and then criticize him for that too (Should have waited cause the offers would have gotten better)? Do you really think the 1st and prospect is on the table today?

Should have traded him sooner, now he's playing like ASS!

What, you want to hold up until after the trade deadline?

 

[Bouboumaster]

trade deadline is weeks away why rush a trade if the right offer isnt on the table yet.....

Do it Hughes!!

 

[Habs Halifax]

Should have traded him sooner, now he's playing like ASS!

What, you want to hold up until after the trade deadline?

His value will not go down and he's not playing like ass. They are actually playing him on the RD side showcasing his ability to play both sides.

No, I don't want to move him after the deadline.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I think Toffoli simply wanted out, unless Gorton / Hughes were vying for a Cup next season, which isn’t the case, and Cgy came knocking willing to assume the entire term & AAV along w sending a 1st rounder. I also suspect Gorton / Hughes viewed Toffoli as a depreciating asset, who speed could completely fall off a cliff at any time and didn’t fit their vision for the team.

Toffoli was actually pretty vocal about not wanting to move and expressed that to Hughes before he was traded. He didn't want to go but Hughes said he got the best offer he wanted for him and moved on it. Toffoli definitely didn't want to move, though I imagine he's pretty happy in Calgary right now.

 

[Goalfield22]

Toffoli was actually pretty vocal about not wanting to move and expressed that to Hughes before he was traded. He didn't want to go but Hughes said he got the best offer he wanted for him and moved on it. Toffoli definitely didn't want to move, though I imagine he's pretty happy in Calgary right now.

Hughes wanted that coveted Calgary 1st that was going to be traded that week regardless. It wasn't Hughes rushing, IMO, it was Calgary.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

There are no facts here. It's literally all hypotheticals so lets not throw words like "fact" around. The only facts we do have are the trades that happened in the past for players similar to Chiarot and they yielded 1st + returns. I don't know why you think this is any different but it's not. Teams will want an established, big, rugged, playoff proven defender in the playoffs. Chiarot's performance last year only solidified his worth. You said yourself you don't doubt he'll get a 1st so i don't know what you're even trying to argue?

Last year, there weren't a lot of good players available and Savard was the most sought player. Completely different circumstances than the one I presented.
What I'm trying to argue? It was pretty clear from my first post.

I hope the good players like Lindholm, Forsberg, Klingberg, etc. don't end up being traded since that would hurt Chiarot's value.

I'm arguing that Chiarot could return less than expected. That doesn't mean he won't return a 1st. It could mean that instead of returning a 1st+3rd, he only returns a 1st.

 

[Schwang]

I hear Arizona needs to fill a roster...

Not exactly like he'd help them much either.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Future Hab Kravtsov () scored 2 goals today in a 2-1 win in the KHL playoffs.

 

[First Line]

Not just NYR, Gorton also did the same in Boston. Even after signing Chara, the team finished bottom 10.
One UFA won’t catapult this team in the standings but it migh be what is needed to get a culture change and some leadership.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Kravtsov more like Krapsoft am I right

 

[Adam Michaels]

Kravtsov more like Krapsoft am I right

 

[Sterling Archer]

Last year, there weren't a lot of good players available and Savard was the most sought player. Completely different circumstances than the one I presented.
What I'm trying to argue? It was pretty clear from my first post.



I'm arguing that Chiarot could return less than expected. That doesn't mean he won't return a 1st. It could mean that instead of returning a 1st+3rd, he only returns a 1st.

Unfortunately there is no way to prove this argument. No one will ever know what a GM would’ve paid last year vs this year vs Chiarot vs another player. Market forces are always changing but the pool of D remains thin. Chiarot is top tier in his pool and asking price already set in the market. If there was 10 Chiarot like D on the market now, I’d agree with you but there aren’t. And the other D that are on the market are a completely different category than a team who’d be looking at a Chiarot. Rangers, Florida, St. Louis, etc aren’t looking at Klingberg or Chykrun, Lindholm for their D, particularly ones with term on their deals as they have near zero cap now or next year. Apples to orange comparison. Chiarot is a one stop pop and move on. Little space now and none next year and at a cost considerably less than the other D.

 

[sampollock]

Why would we move Edmundson?

agreed, ED stays

 

[sampollock]

I hear Arizona needs to fill a roster...

send them JD then.. asap