Hoffmann is getting third line's ice time on a really bad team. The guy is simply not enough good. Yet. He's got elite skating, but he has really to bulk up. Hockey sense is also lacking.
Switzerland: Swiss young guns
- Thread starter torero
- Start date
You're right.
Otherwise is also true he is not playing on last year niveau. He did not started with the team this season, and he problably is not yet best fit because of the nordamerican effort.
And I am not sure I was injured (inside report talk about misunderstandigs with Constantine).
On this i totally agree!
Hossa
Registered User
Thanks for the responses guys. As a Canadian hockey fan living in Switzerland, Hofmann's one of the few NHL prospects I can pretend to scout, so I've been following him the best I can, and hope to see him live next month.
Obviously Hofmann got drafted in part because of his great speed, but also I think because of his aggressiveness. Certainly he needs to bulk up (does he seem any stronger than last year), but if you can skate and use that to be aggressive, you can make the NHL. A guy like Ryan Shannon is a great example of a guy who has used his speed and aggressiveness on a smaller ice surface to be an effective player, despite limited offence. But you'd hope Hofmann can take a step forward offensively.
The comment on his hockey sense is interesting. Can you give me an example of how that comes out in his play? Hockey sense is so often something you can only really assess after multiple viewings (which I don't have), so I'm interested. Certainly a lot of players with speed struggle to have their head and hands keep up with their feet.
My hope was he might be able to take a step forward like Roman Josi did after being drafted, but that doesn't look to be the case, reconfirming that Josi's probably clearly more talented. If he only has a so-so season, where do you think Hofmann will play next year? Ambri-Piotta seems to be from year to year consistently below average (I still find it amazing they stay in the top league at all), and Kevin Constantine does not have a reputation in North America at least for being a great developer of talent. But I doubt Hofmann's ready for the AHL yet, so I wonder where would be best if he continues to toil as a third liner in Ambri-Piotta.
Obviously Hofmann got drafted in part because of his great speed, but also I think because of his aggressiveness. Certainly he needs to bulk up (does he seem any stronger than last year), but if you can skate and use that to be aggressive, you can make the NHL. A guy like Ryan Shannon is a great example of a guy who has used his speed and aggressiveness on a smaller ice surface to be an effective player, despite limited offence. But you'd hope Hofmann can take a step forward offensively.
The comment on his hockey sense is interesting. Can you give me an example of how that comes out in his play? Hockey sense is so often something you can only really assess after multiple viewings (which I don't have), so I'm interested. Certainly a lot of players with speed struggle to have their head and hands keep up with their feet.
My hope was he might be able to take a step forward like Roman Josi did after being drafted, but that doesn't look to be the case, reconfirming that Josi's probably clearly more talented. If he only has a so-so season, where do you think Hofmann will play next year? Ambri-Piotta seems to be from year to year consistently below average (I still find it amazing they stay in the top league at all), and Kevin Constantine does not have a reputation in North America at least for being a great developer of talent. But I doubt Hofmann's ready for the AHL yet, so I wonder where would be best if he continues to toil as a third liner in Ambri-Piotta.
interesting quotes about G. Hofmann in here...
his game definitely looks a bit unstructured right now.
I think there are various reasons for it. Expectations from in- and outside are much higher after his draftpick (sophomore), his late injury last year, his trip to NA to interrupt the preseason...
about his hockey sense/intelligence: I agree is not (yet) on his skating and hustleing level. But it's not on a bad level IMO, it just get more exposed because of his playing style.
When he finds a bit of time, his decisionmaking "historically" is pretty good. And a guy with that great footspeed and lack of hockey sense, wouldn't be an option as C, which he's been on all levels he's played yet. Plus he got a history of being "clutch", and that would be an untypical characterisation as well, for a guy lacking hockey sense.
There's a good chance IMO, that he won't end up like Andres Ambühl, who's the prototypical player in Switzerland, who got it all, except a solid hockey sense/iQ.
I'd like to see him along a smart, veteran forward, that could lead and correct him on the ice...
It definitely doesn't help when he has to play alongside a guy like R.Raffainer, who got a long history of making his linemates ineffective with his unsopisticated pattern of the game.
his game definitely looks a bit unstructured right now.
I think there are various reasons for it. Expectations from in- and outside are much higher after his draftpick (sophomore), his late injury last year, his trip to NA to interrupt the preseason...
about his hockey sense/intelligence: I agree is not (yet) on his skating and hustleing level. But it's not on a bad level IMO, it just get more exposed because of his playing style.
When he finds a bit of time, his decisionmaking "historically" is pretty good. And a guy with that great footspeed and lack of hockey sense, wouldn't be an option as C, which he's been on all levels he's played yet. Plus he got a history of being "clutch", and that would be an untypical characterisation as well, for a guy lacking hockey sense.
There's a good chance IMO, that he won't end up like Andres Ambühl, who's the prototypical player in Switzerland, who got it all, except a solid hockey sense/iQ.
I'd like to see him along a smart, veteran forward, that could lead and correct him on the ice...
It definitely doesn't help when he has to play alongside a guy like R.Raffainer, who got a long history of making his linemates ineffective with his unsopisticated pattern of the game.
torero
Registered User
young guns in NA
Forwards
Richard Tanner - Guelph storms - 9game - 12pts - 1st exaequo
Allessio Bertaggia - brandon Wheat - 11 games - 14pts - 3rd
Sven Bartschi - Winterhawks - 8 games - 17pts - 2nd (3 games less and by 1 point)
Eric Arnold - Moose Jaw Warriors - 10 games - 8points - 4th
Devin Muller - Salmon Arms Silverback - 10 games - 10 points - 2nd
Lino Martschini - Petersborough Petes - 11 games - 6 points - 8th
Sven Andrighetto - Rouyn-Noranda Huskies - 11 games - 14points - 2nd
Ryan Mc Gregor - Harvard Uni hockey - ... no figures yet.
Defence
Dave Sutter - Seattle Thunderbirds - 7games - 4points - 5th (2nd D at 1point)
Dario Truttmann - Plymouth Whalers - 11 games - 5points - 10th (2nd D at 1point)
Not bad at all !!! ... who was questioning our forwards in the years ahead ?
If i forgot someone ... be my guest and add your stone to the wall !
Forwards
Richard Tanner - Guelph storms - 9game - 12pts - 1st exaequo
Allessio Bertaggia - brandon Wheat - 11 games - 14pts - 3rd
Sven Bartschi - Winterhawks - 8 games - 17pts - 2nd (3 games less and by 1 point)
Eric Arnold - Moose Jaw Warriors - 10 games - 8points - 4th
Devin Muller - Salmon Arms Silverback - 10 games - 10 points - 2nd
Lino Martschini - Petersborough Petes - 11 games - 6 points - 8th
Sven Andrighetto - Rouyn-Noranda Huskies - 11 games - 14points - 2nd
Ryan Mc Gregor - Harvard Uni hockey - ... no figures yet.
Defence
Dave Sutter - Seattle Thunderbirds - 7games - 4points - 5th (2nd D at 1point)
Dario Truttmann - Plymouth Whalers - 11 games - 5points - 10th (2nd D at 1point)
Not bad at all !!! ... who was questioning our forwards in the years ahead ?
If i forgot someone ... be my guest and add your stone to the wall !
It is true that if you look at our prospects we have more offensive prospects than defensive ones (Sbisa and Josi aren't prospects anymore for us 
).
We'll see if there is even one defender with NHL-chances, I doubt that. Loeffel? Guerra? Kukan?
).We'll see if there is even one defender with NHL-chances, I doubt that. Loeffel? Guerra? Kukan?
And the players who will make both the teams are Félicien Du Bois, Damien Brunner, Julien Sprunger, Andrei Bykov et Simon Moser.
some interesting names on the swiss U-20 roster http://www.swiss-icehockey.ch/media/native/pdf/siha/nationalmannschafte/u20_herren/u20_aufgebot_nov_2011.pdf .
Although it's advertised as a U-19 squad, it's more of a U-20... minus the NA legionaries.
Not surprised to see Simion and Bertschy there, especially Simion could make the WJ-team, IMO.
But Baltisperger's call as a triple-underager is quite unusual and impressive. especially when there's no 94 born D on the team.
Although it's advertised as a U-19 squad, it's more of a U-20... minus the NA legionaries.
Not surprised to see Simion and Bertschy there, especially Simion could make the WJ-team, IMO.
But Baltisperger's call as a triple-underager is quite unusual and impressive. especially when there's no 94 born D on the team.
swissexpert
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2009
- 2,733
- 1,005
Baltisberger is the next big thing out of this country, guy impressed at every stage so far, hopefully he can keep it up.
6'00" isn't too bad for a 16yo, would be cool if he could add a little bit height.
6'00" isn't too bad for a 16yo, would be cool if he could add a little bit height.
torero
Registered User
Recently the NHL made some pre-draft assessments and ... no Swiss on the list.
I am surprised ... when i wander around the sites of our young exports (imports on their stats) ... some lead their team in points scored ... others are in the top 5 or top 3. But none of these chaps is on the list.
Is someone out their who can enlighten me on this matter with a attempt for explanation ?
tks
I am surprised ... when i wander around the sites of our young exports (imports on their stats) ... some lead their team in points scored ... others are in the top 5 or top 3. But none of these chaps is on the list.
Is someone out their who can enlighten me on this matter with a attempt for explanation ?
tks
Source please. Which list? How many picks were considered?
This one?
No swiss picks in first 3 rounds? Possible and probable
You, who do you think will be drafted in 2012?
Simion could be a very high pick, but maybe in 2013.
Tanner Richard, bertaggia, vermin and others could be called but probably from the third/fourth round. The other lands have better youngs then switz., dont forget.
This one?
No swiss picks in first 3 rounds? Possible and probable
You, who do you think will be drafted in 2012?
Simion could be a very high pick, but maybe in 2013.
Tanner Richard, bertaggia, vermin and others could be called but probably from the third/fourth round. The other lands have better youngs then switz., dont forget.
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I guess you refer to Richard and Bertaggia (I feel old typing these names 
). Both had their draft year last season so it's not surprising they don't appear in the lists, the best they can hope is to be picked in a late round.
Regarding the players based in Switzerland, if I remember the preseason rankings correctly, the highest rated were Rouiller, Simion, Bertschy and Schmutz. None of them being an out of this world talent, I suspect only Simion is not disqualified by his size.
). Both had their draft year last season so it's not surprising they don't appear in the lists, the best they can hope is to be picked in a late round.Regarding the players based in Switzerland, if I remember the preseason rankings correctly, the highest rated were Rouiller, Simion, Bertschy and Schmutz. None of them being an out of this world talent, I suspect only Simion is not disqualified by his size.
torero
Registered User
tks guys !
appreciate your savoir.
Actually it could still change ... but since you support that it is a weak year for us (let's call it weak ... since we got used to good years !)
whatever ...tks
appreciate your savoir.
Actually it could still change ... but since you support that it is a weak year for us (let's call it weak ... since we got used to good years !)
whatever ...tks
How is Simion worse than last year's Hoffmann? Simion has better hands, better strenght on the puck, only skating is worse.
Ps.: There'll only one draftee from Switzerland btw.
Ps.: There'll only one draftee from Switzerland btw.
They really like Richard's canadian-type of game in Guelph. I think he's got a fair chance to be a late round draft. let's see how Andrighetto's season develops, his critics are pretty good too. But he definitely got the size issue against him, though he doesn't shy away of the dirty areas.
The results the 94ers achieved over the last 1 and 1/2 on international stage don't indicate a weak generation. they won most games against GER,SVK and CZE. and had always pretty close games against all big competition, except the NA' teams.
They may lack a bit of top end talent (though I'm not sold on that), but the forward depth is impressive and comparable to 92/89 generations. For a country with a small talent pool like switzerland, depth is more important then top-talent. it's the basis of our home league, and finally of the quality it'll produce.
there are over a dozen 89-forwards playing in NLA, most of them not as teamleaders, but as role players. (e.g. I'd like to know Schlagenhaufs Face-off stats... nearly everytime I see him in the circle, he wins it clearly).
I don't think the 1st lines in NLA are better than 10 years ago, it's the 3rd and 4th lines that made a jump in quality. and allow the teams nowadays to challenge any european competition.
The results the 94ers achieved over the last 1 and 1/2 on international stage don't indicate a weak generation. they won most games against GER,SVK and CZE. and had always pretty close games against all big competition, except the NA' teams.
They may lack a bit of top end talent (though I'm not sold on that), but the forward depth is impressive and comparable to 92/89 generations. For a country with a small talent pool like switzerland, depth is more important then top-talent. it's the basis of our home league, and finally of the quality it'll produce.
there are over a dozen 89-forwards playing in NLA, most of them not as teamleaders, but as role players. (e.g. I'd like to know Schlagenhaufs Face-off stats... nearly everytime I see him in the circle, he wins it clearly).
I don't think the 1st lines in NLA are better than 10 years ago, it's the 3rd and 4th lines that made a jump in quality. and allow the teams nowadays to challenge any european competition.
Rafik Soliman
Registered User
I totaly agree with duga on this... We miss the very good talent this year...
Again we have good scoring forwards in Christoph Bertschy, Julian Schmutz or Nicola Brandi who lack the size. Then we have othe good forwards who are still raw in their game like Dario Simion or Sandro Zangger.
Anthony Rouiller can be compared to Yannick Weber - small and hard working with a very good shot. But Rouiller is very injury prone, which gives him a huge question mark...
The 94s need an increadible u18 WJC, or even make it to the u20 (but that chance is so small and I don't see anyone make it as a double underager) to get more recognition... Like I said at the begining of the season, that our guys in NA have the best chances to get drafted and I still hold on to that quote...
Again we have good scoring forwards in Christoph Bertschy, Julian Schmutz or Nicola Brandi who lack the size. Then we have othe good forwards who are still raw in their game like Dario Simion or Sandro Zangger.
Anthony Rouiller can be compared to Yannick Weber - small and hard working with a very good shot. But Rouiller is very injury prone, which gives him a huge question mark...
The 94s need an increadible u18 WJC, or even make it to the u20 (but that chance is so small and I don't see anyone make it as a double underager) to get more recognition... Like I said at the begining of the season, that our guys in NA have the best chances to get drafted and I still hold on to that quote...
Wow, I knew that Bykov is fast, but he's very fast, probably the fastest player on Swiss ice at the moment.
ey guys,
I really like the niveau of disscussion we're developing in here, wanted to thx everybody for their efforts.
after the forums on hockeyfans.ch have grown more and more childish and unreadable over the years, I already had accepted that their's no place online to disscuss the subject "swiss hockey" without getting lost in non-sense, homerism and personal attacks. I'm glad I was wrong!
BTW, I'm not criticizing the guys behind hockeyfans. ch! au contraire, if I was the man in charge for the nominees for the "Swiss hockey award", I'd definitely select Martin Merk as an option...for a decade of professional and reliable journalism as a volunteer.
I really like the niveau of disscussion we're developing in here, wanted to thx everybody for their efforts.
after the forums on hockeyfans.ch have grown more and more childish and unreadable over the years, I already had accepted that their's no place online to disscuss the subject "swiss hockey" without getting lost in non-sense, homerism and personal attacks. I'm glad I was wrong!
BTW, I'm not criticizing the guys behind hockeyfans. ch! au contraire, if I was the man in charge for the nominees for the "Swiss hockey award", I'd definitely select Martin Merk as an option...for a decade of professional and reliable journalism as a volunteer.
on topic:
I couldnt think of a better player than Martin Plüss to accompany Bertschy's first steps in LNA. They are on similar level when it comes to skills and hockey sense.
And as Rafik said, Simion's still abit raw. But I like very much what I saw of him this season. He's always husteling and noticeable on the ice, protects the puck surprisingly well, good hands, some smart passing, and seems (similar to Nino's first strides in LNA) already physically stronger then half the league.
I want to see the Gotteron-Trio against real competition. they played a cat-and-mouse-game yesterday against the Legionaires. Bykov's speed definitely stood out a few times (but I'm pretty sure he couldn't beat F. Schnyder with sheer footspeed). Sprunger's self-esteem is definitely back. If their style doesn't work against stronger competition... I'd like to see the Bykov-Sprunger-combo being supplemented with a physically solid player, with good scoring-instincts and good hockey I.Q. (Bürgler, Monnet, Stancescu or Christen)
I couldnt think of a better player than Martin Plüss to accompany Bertschy's first steps in LNA. They are on similar level when it comes to skills and hockey sense.
And as Rafik said, Simion's still abit raw. But I like very much what I saw of him this season. He's always husteling and noticeable on the ice, protects the puck surprisingly well, good hands, some smart passing, and seems (similar to Nino's first strides in LNA) already physically stronger then half the league.
I want to see the Gotteron-Trio against real competition. they played a cat-and-mouse-game yesterday against the Legionaires. Bykov's speed definitely stood out a few times (but I'm pretty sure he couldn't beat F. Schnyder with sheer footspeed). Sprunger's self-esteem is definitely back. If their style doesn't work against stronger competition... I'd like to see the Bykov-Sprunger-combo being supplemented with a physically solid player, with good scoring-instincts and good hockey I.Q. (Bürgler, Monnet, Stancescu or Christen)
I second this, thanks everyone for the level of knowledge shown, and for making the moderating job easy.
Definitely true, those guys have way better standards than some so called "real" journalists.
For the moment, I have a hard time evaluating the true level of that line. They did well yesterday (By the way, I'm not sure what the point of that game is, I would prefer to play a real team, even the like of Austria or Italy), but we all know they can do well against NLA opposition. I think B. Plüss doesn't have what it takes to play at the higher level, but Bykov definitely deserves a closer look. I'm not a fan of what Sprunger has shown in international tournaments so far, he can score some goals against lesser teams, but is almost useless against stronger ones. Maybe playing with Bykov would help, but on the other hand lack of chemistry was never a issue while playing with Monnet.
No question on the potential of Beni Plüss, he's far away from his brother and normally shouldn't be a candidate for a WC. Bykov is getting really interesting, he made a huge step and I can see him getting a similar career like Martin Plüss. There was one scene on Tuesday in the PP where a defender lost the puck on the blueline and there was a 2vs1 vs. the Swiss and Bykov won several meters (compared to the other) and made a great play in the own zone. He seemed to me by far the fastest player on the ice overall.
I do not like bashing Sprunger. Surely he was not constant for Switzerland in the last few year, had better games, had games where he couldn't show up. I still like his potential, I think if he stays healthy for some time and builds up with confidence he is a lock for any national-team selection.
Gerber is not really a young gun anymore, but still a great goalkeeper and in my opinion still #2 in Switzerland (behind Hiller). Such a great guy.
Edit: I'm very interested in seeing Von Gunten this weekend. He may be another Diaz, I think he has NHL-potential and playing in the first line in Sweden with good statistics is quite impressive.
I do not like bashing Sprunger. Surely he was not constant for Switzerland in the last few year, had better games, had games where he couldn't show up. I still like his potential, I think if he stays healthy for some time and builds up with confidence he is a lock for any national-team selection.
Gerber is not really a young gun anymore, but still a great goalkeeper and in my opinion still #2 in Switzerland (behind Hiller). Such a great guy.
Edit: I'm very interested in seeing Von Gunten this weekend. He may be another Diaz, I think he has NHL-potential and playing in the first line in Sweden with good statistics is quite impressive.
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I wasn't really bashing him, just trying to assess his potentiel at the highest level. I think we can agree that he can't handle physical play and his skating is below average. His hands are good by Swiss standard, by the highest standards not so much. I have a hard time considering him a lock with all the available wingers who can play offensive roles.
By the way, this discussion about national team potential gave me a thread idea! (it would be nice if this one was kept about young player potential)
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