Recalled/Assigned: Stefan Elliott recalled

[Colorado Avalanche]

Yes, they do.

Asserting that offense from the blueline isn't necessary because defense from the blueline is substandard, is simply wrong. The Avs' blueline just happens to have the unfortunate distinction to be substandard at both. They can't win if both don't get fixed, to some more or lesser extent.

For all of the *****ing about Colorado's porous defense (and the *****ing is deserved), I'd like to point out that Colorado also is in the Bottom 3 or 4 in the NHL in goals scored. Given their forward talent, I'd put forth the question: Why?



I don't believe so, no.

Avalanche defense has produced 4 goals this season. 4 goals. Blame can be put on Johnson, he should the one making goals from blueline. IMO. At least that was my idea when we first got him. Offensively Johnson has been big disappointment (let's face the fact).
Any way, our biggest problem is offense, we can't even get good passes to our forwards, we are running around in defense zone too long and not getting anything going offensively. This team has a lot of offensive talent, problem is obviously in defense. Even Barrie has been able to make huge difference to this team offensively and he's a rookie. Imagine, If we had someone like Timonen, Streit whoever, puckmoving defenseman. It would make huge difference to our offense.

 

[CalderKing21]

Yes, they do.

Asserting that offense from the blueline isn't necessary because defense from the blueline is substandard, is simply wrong. The Avs' blueline just happens to have the unfortunate distinction to be substandard at both. They can't win if both don't get fixed, to some more or lesser extent.

For all of the *****ing about Colorado's porous defense (and the *****ing is deserved), I'd like to point out that Colorado also is in the Bottom 3 or 4 in the NHL in goals scored. Given their forward talent, I'd put forth the question: Why?



I don't believe so, no.

i'm not saying they need absolutely none from the blueline. but the defensemen are primarily for defense. if they can't play that role properly it won't matter what they produce on offense.
offense from them needs to be wholly secondary to the cause protecting our own zone and stopping shots from peppering the goalie.

the Avs offense sucks this season? why you ask? two of our better players were hurt for a long duration of time, one out for the season.
our lines have been scattered and nonsensical, we have no real offensive scheme or system(most of our good goals come from freelancing by our forwards) and we get outcoached in every damn game.

 

[Rumplesnipeskin]

Avalanche defense has produced 4 goals this season. 4 goals. Blame can be put on Johnson, he should the one making goals from blueline. IMO. At least that was my idea when we first got him. Offensively Johnson has been big disappointment (let's face the fact).
Any way, our biggest problem is offense, we can't even get good passes to our forwards, we are running around in defense zone too long and not getting anything going offensively. This team has a lot of offensive talent, problem is obviously in defense. Even Barrie has been able to make huge difference to this team offensively and he's a rookie. Imagine, If we had someone like Timonen, Streit whoever, puckmoving defenseman. It would make huge difference to our offense.

... Coaching kills us. I'm not sure Sacco is aware what the word "breakout" even means.

 

[CalderKing21]

Avalanche defense has produced 4 goals this season. 4 goals. Blame can be put on Johnson, he should the one making goals from blueline. IMO. At least that was my idea when we first got him. Offensively Johnson has been big disappointment (let's face the fact).
Any way, our biggest problem is offense, we can't even get good passes to our forwards, we are running around in defense zone too long and not getting anything going offensively. This team has a lot of offensive talent, problem is obviously in defense. Even Barrie has been able to make huge difference to this team offensively and he's a rookie. Imagine, If we had someone like Timonen, Streit whoever, puckmoving defenseman. It would make huge difference to our offense.

fixing the defense allows the offense to come. we spend less time in our own end, we can take turnovers and force the odd man rush, put less pressure on our goalies and take so many mistakes out of it for our team and decrease the overall margin for error.
great defense turns into offense on the other end. that's what we need first and foremost.

 

[CalderKing21]

... Coaching kills us. I'm not sure Sacco is aware what the word "breakout" even means.

the only thing he knows is dump and chase. offense or defense, it's all he knows and coaches.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

i'm not saying they need absolutely none from the blueline. but the defensemen are primarily for defense. if they can't play that role properly it won't matter what they produce on offense.
offense from them needs to be wholly secondary to the cause protecting our own zone and stopping shots from peppering the goalie.

the Avs offense sucks this season? why you ask? two of our better players were hurt for a long duration of time, one out for the season.
our lines have been scattered and nonsensical, we have no real offensive scheme or system(most of our good goals come from freelancing by our forwards) and we get outcoached in every damn game.

I would argue that our pluggers do an exemplary job at blocking shots. What more could you ask from defenders? They block shots? They turn bodies outside when necessary. It's all according to plan.

Fact is, the team needs more from the D corp. The real reason they suck is because they over-corrected. They had a small-skill group and went to a big lumbering group and never really solidified any pairing. That's a ****ing joke on the fans played by the ownership. We'll see how that one ends.

Fact is, you need better two way guys than we have and we also need better one-way offensive dmen and better one-way defensiemen. We also need a coach that can create a system that allows his players to excel at what they are good at.

Maybe next year? The year after? I'm sure were only 5 or 6 more lottery picks away...

Here's too the tank...at least we have that going for us right? I mean...after all, we want to suck correct? Who in their right mind would actually want to see a team win a game or three in a row? It's been so ****ing long I can't remember what it was like but I'd like for my team to do everything in its power to prevent me from seeing it for another 10-36 month because there is some bust waiting to happen we might be able to draft if we don't outsuck some other loser team.

 

[Avs_19]

i'm not saying they need absolutely none from the blueline. but the defensemen are primarily for defense. if they can't play that role properly it won't matter what they produce on offense.
offense from them needs to be wholly secondary to the cause protecting our own zone and stopping shots from peppering the goalie.

the Avs offense sucks this season? why you ask? two of our better players were hurt for a long duration of time, one out for the season.
our lines have been scattered and nonsensical, we have no real offensive scheme or system(most of our good goals come from freelancing by our forwards) and we get outcoached in every damn game.

You left out the part about the defense not being able to move the puck. They can't skate or pass and in the offensive zone they're no help either. The play usually dies when the forwards give the puck to Zanon, O'Brien, Hejda and O'Byrne (when he was here). Hunwick can skate but he isn't all that valuable when it comes to making the right pass or putting the puck on net.

Forget about the injuries, coaching, system, etc, it's hard for the forwards when they have to do all the work in order to produce goals. Yes, it's their job but they still need help. Just like how the defense needs the forwards to come back and help out defensively. You can't go 3 on 5 all the time and expect to score goals. EJ, Barrie, and Elliott can retrieve the puck and either pass it up ice to the forwards or carry it themselves. When you have any combination of O'Byrne, Zanon, Hejda, and O'Bryne on the ice, the forwards have to do all the work in order to score.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I would argue that our pluggers do an exemplary job at blocking shots. What more could you ask from defenders? They block shots? They turn bodies outside when necessary. It's all according to plan.

Fact is, the team needs more from the D corp. The real reason they suck is because they over-corrected. They had a small-skill group and went to a big lumbering group and never really solidified any pairing. That's a ****ing joke on the fans played by the ownership. We'll see how that one ends.

Fact is, you need better two way guys than we have and we also need better one-way offensive dmen and better one-way defensiemen. We also need a coach that can create a system that allows his players to excel at what they are good at.

Maybe next year? The year after? I'm sure were only 5 or 6 more lottery picks away...

Here's too the tank...at least we have that going for us right? I mean...after all, we want to suck correct? Who in their right mind would actually want to see a team win a game or three in a row? It's been so ****ing long I can't remember what it was like but I'd like for my team to do everything in its power to prevent me from seeing it for another 10-36 month because there is some bust waiting to happen we might be able to draft if we don't outsuck some other loser team.

Eh, I want a high pick but I'll enjoy any win we do get. 6 games and 12 points left for us to be had. Best that gets us with ZERO movement right now would be 15th. Obviously the teams between us and 15th are not going to lose every single game. We'll draft in the top 4 at least IMO.

Jones
Drouin
Mackinnon
Barkov

Any one of those guys have a strong chance at being a franchise player for us. Either of the two centers could covert to wing as well. Barkov is fairly interesting as an option for a smart big bodied top 6 LW while Mackinnon would be a good goal scoring RW replacing Jones on Stastny's line. I just want one of those four at this point.

A left side of Barkov, Landeskog, and McGinn to go with our three centers wouldn't be a bad thing by any means.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Eh, I want a high pick but I'll enjoy any win we do get. 6 games and 12 points left for us to be had. Best that gets us with ZERO movement right now would be 15th. Obviously the teams between us and 15th are not going to lose every single game. We'll draft in the top 4 at least IMO.

Jones
Drouin
Mackinnon
Barkov

Any one of those guys have a strong chance at being a franchise player for us.

What worries me is the later rounds. I don't want to give 4x4 contracts a lot of 9th rounders (even if they have cool piratey names.) I know it's not really possible to do that now that the draft is only 7 rounds deep but it wouldn't surprise me to see PL coveting 9th rounders still. He's just not really in touch with the modern game.

 

[CobraAcesS]

What worries me is the later rounds. I don't want to give 4x4 contracts a lot of 9th rounders (even if they have cool piratey names.) I know it's not really possible to do that now that the draft is only 7 rounds deep but it wouldn't surprise me to see PL coveting 9th rounders still. He's just not really in touch with the modern game.

lolz

 

[ABasin]

i'm not saying they need absolutely none from the blueline.

Well, OK. I don't wish to drive this discussion to silly places, but that's not what you wrote in your original post. Hence, my response.

But I do understand that if we were put up against a wall and had to choose which one of the two the defense didn't suck at, then we'd probably choose their play in their own zone. That said, a defensive corps needs to do both passingly well for a team to succeed. What makes this year's Avs blueline effort so insidious, is that they are AWFUL at both. Simply terrible. They are just a rotten group of players when the puck is in their possession.

the Avs offense sucks this season? why you ask? two of our better players were hurt for a long duration of time, one out for the season.
our lines have been scattered and nonsensical, we have no real offensive scheme or system(most of our good goals come from freelancing by our forwards) and we get outcoached in every damn game.

...and the fact that their defense is awful at getting the puck to the forwards, and awful at point play. I'm not saying the Avs forwards don't own some of their own collective ineptness, but it's hard to score when only 3 of the 5 guys on the ice are generating offensive chances.

 

[ABasin]

Eh, I want a high pick but I'll enjoy any win we do get.

This is my position as well. Play the game.

I admit I don't watch much junior hockey (and I've seen an awful lot of can't miss picks miss), so I don't have a horse in this Jones-Drouin race. The Avs will likely get a Top 5 pick and will therefore likely get a good young player. That's enough for me.


I mean, over the 18 years' worth of 1st round slots the Avs have had as a franchise (yes, they traded away some and for some, but the Avs have one 1st round slot per draft like everyone else), what is the number of those 1st round draft slots who:

Are still with the organization? Answer: 3 out of 18.
Have ever played more than 5 full seasons with the Avalanche: 1 out of 18.

So I'm not getting all worked up over individual prospects.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I mean, over the 18 years' worth of 1st round slots the Avs have had as a franchise (yes, they traded away some and for some, but the Avs have one 1st round slot per draft like everyone else), what is the number of those 1st round draft slots who:

Are still with the organization? Answer: 3 out of 18.
Have ever played more than 5 full seasons with the Avalanche: 1 out of 18.

So I'm not getting all worked up over individual prospects.

Yeah, those were the days when we were buyers at trade deadline. Now It's different, those numbers will change for sure.

 

[ABasin]

Yeah, those were the days when we were buyers at trade deadline. Now It's different, those numbers will change for sure.

That's part of it, certainly. But even since the lost CBA season, there have been 8 1st round slots for the Avs. They still only have 3 players, and zero who have played more than 5 seasons with the team. Or even more than 3 seasons with the team.

This team tends to move its 1st round picks/slots.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I want Jones, but will accept whomever we draft, therefore where we pick doesn't concern me right now. Nor should it many Avs fans. For all we know Sherman pulls off a trade to move up and get Jones.

For the record, I'm very opposed to people using past precedence in evaluating drafting success over such a long period of time. Too many variables to lump in all the drafts into one analysis.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I want Jones, but will accept whomever we draft, therefore where we pick doesn't concern me right now. Nor should it many Avs fans. For all we know Sherman pulls off a trade to move up and get Jones.

For the record, I'm very opposed to people using past precedence in evaluating drafting success over such a long period of time. Too many variables to lump in all the drafts into one analysis.

If Florida keeps their 1st over all and we end up #2 or #3, this is one year I could actually see us trading up. Florida arguably wants a forward.

The question is, is it worth giving up Sgarbossa or our 2nd round pick in order to get Jones, maybe more? Unless we lose 4 or 5 of our remaining 6 games, I am guessing we draft #2 or #3.

 

[R S]

People are coming around? Or his play is coming around?

He played his best game in awhile, no doubt.

Both.

They do go hand in hand but I've said all along that he just needs the time to adjust to the NHL game. People were starting to lose faith that it was going to happen for him and I'm glad some of those same people are coming around again now that he's playing well.

 

[Christian Litscher]

If Florida keeps their 1st over all and we end up #2 or #3, this is one year I could actually see us trading up. Florida arguably wants a forward.

The question is, is it worth giving up Sgarbossa or our 2nd round pick in order to get Jones, maybe more? Unless we lose 4 or 5 of our remaining 6 games, I am guessing we draft #2 or #3.

Easily.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

The question is, is it worth giving up Sgarbossa or our 2nd round pick in order to get Jones, maybe more? Unless we lose 4 or 5 of our remaining 6 games, I am guessing we draft #2 or #3.

I wouldn't think about doing that, but maybe it's just me. This team has depth issues. Trading away Sgarbossa, one of the few prospects we have who may be a top 6 forward, or a 2nd round pick in a deep draft kills the depth even more. If the Avs are drafting at 2 or 3, they're still going to get a great player that they will be happy with for a long time.

This team isn't deep enough or good enough to trade multiple assets for one asset right now.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I wouldn't think about doing that, but maybe it's just me. This team has depth issues. Trading away Sgarbossa, one of the few prospects we have who may be a top 6 forward, or a 2nd round pick in a deep draft kills the depth even more. If the Avs are drafting at 2 or 3, they're still going to get a great player that they will be happy with for a long time.

This team isn't deep enough or good enough to trade multiple assets for one asset right now.

That's what I was thinking, but I guess it depends on how much faith they have in Sgarbossa or how much they like the players that may be there at 31-34. I personally don't feel like Sgarbossa got much of a chance offensively in the few games he was up.

I wish he would of either got some time with better wingers or on the LW with either of Duchene or Stastny. Sgarbossa is a guy that can think the game very well and score goals just the same. Hes also not afraid of contact...

I'd really like to see him on Duchene's wing before we even consider trading him. Duchene thrives with smart players next to him.

On top of the fact that it would either fill a hole or bolster his value in any trade.

However, if we draft another forward. How much of a chance is Sgarbossa really going to have when it comes to breaking into our top 9 group?

Drouin/Barkov could both fill a hole on the left side, if we keep all three of our current centers. Mack could be the goal scoring RW that Stastny needs.

 

[Holyhell]

I wouldn't think about doing that, but maybe it's just me. This team has depth issues. Trading away Sgarbossa, one of the few prospects we have who may be a top 6 forward, or a 2nd round pick in a deep draft kills the depth even more. If the Avs are drafting at 2 or 3, they're still going to get a great player that they will be happy with for a long time.

This team isn't deep enough or good enough to trade multiple assets for one asset right now.

When I saw the original proposal I thought, "No one would ever say no to Sgarbossa and a 2nd for Jones, NOONE!"

Sir you just turned my world upside-down.

 

[R S]

If Florida keeps their 1st over all and we end up #2 or #3, this is one year I could actually see us trading up. Florida arguably wants a forward.

The question is, is it worth giving up Sgarbossa or our 2nd round pick in order to get Jones, maybe more? Unless we lose 4 or 5 of our remaining 6 games, I am guessing we draft #2 or #3.

I would think so. For me, Jones fills that big of a need and is that much better of a player than either Drouin or MacKinnon. Does management feel that way? Hard to say..but I would hope that they would at least consider 1st overall for 2nd/3rd overall + Sgarbossa + our 2nd.

I wouldn't think about doing that, but maybe it's just me. This team has depth issues. Trading away Sgarbossa, one of the few prospects we have who may be a top 6 forward, or a 2nd round pick in a deep draft kills the depth even more. If the Avs are drafting at 2 or 3, they're still going to get a great player that they will be happy with for a long time.

This team isn't deep enough or good enough to trade multiple assets for one asset right now.

I don't think our depth issues are as big as you say they are.

I still love the depth of our FW group. For next year, if Hejduk retires, you can essentially slide Downie in to replace him...leaving us with a very balanced group that would look something like:

Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie
McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau
Mitchell - Stastny - Jones
McLeod - Malone - Bordeleau

Ex. Olver and others.....give or take a name or two.


I think a guy like Malone has proven himself he can be a valuable depth guy now, same can be said for Olver.

 

[CobraAcesS]

When I saw the original proposal I thought, "No one would ever say no to Sgarbossa and a 2nd for Jones, NOONE!"

Sir you just turned my world upside-down.

ROTFL no, it would be pick #2/#3 + Sgarbossa/#32 for pick #1.

If we could trade Sgarbossa + #32 for #1 I'd be all over that no question. Who knows though... Calgary likes second round players better than first round players according the last years draft. Maybe we can get #2 and #3 over all, lol.

 

[R S]

That's what I was thinking, but I guess it depends on how much faith they have in Sgarbossa or how much they like the players that may be there at 31-34. I personally don't feel like Sgarbossa got much of a chance offensively in the few games he was up.

I wish he would of either got some time with better wingers or on the LW with either of Duchene or Stastny. Sgarbossa is a guy that can think the game very well and score goals just the same. Hes also not afraid of contact...

I'd really like to see him on Duchene's wing before we even consider trading him. Duchene thrives with smart players next to him.

On top of the fact that it would either fill a hole or bolster his value in any trade.

However, if we draft another forward. How much of a chance is Sgarbossa really going to have when it comes to breaking into our top 9 group?

Drouin/Barkov could both fill a hole on the left side, if we keep all three of our current centers. Mack could be the goal scoring RW that Stastny needs.

This isn't exactly how it works though. Barkov is a C. It's not like a video game where a team will just put the kid on left wing because he's a lefty. Is it the right move for his development? Is it the best fit for his playing style? Is he comfortable there? Etc, etc.

Same goes for MacKinnon. He's a C. Can he play wing? Probably. But the same questions from above can be asked here.

 

[PAZ]

I would think so. For me, Jones fills that big of a need and is that much better of a player than either Drouin or MacKinnon. Does management feel that way? Hard to say..but I would hope that they would at least consider 1st overall for 2nd/3rd overall + Sgarbossa + our 2nd.



I don't think our depth issues are as big as you say they are.

I still love the depth of our FW group. For next year, if Hejduk retires, you can essentially slide Downie in to replace him...leaving us with a very balanced group that would look something like:

Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie
McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau
Mitchell - Stastny - Jones
McLeod - Malone - Bordeleau

Ex. Olver and others.....give or take a name or two.


I think a guy like Malone has proven himself he can be a valuable depth guy now, same can be said for Olver.

I like how our '3rd line' is the weakest defensively out of all 4, when conventionally it's suppose to be the checking line. I'd rather see Pajamas over Mitchell or Jones with Staz. He hustles his ass off and actually helps create offense with Stastny.