Zirakzigil
Global Moderator
Flames made a big trade today. Meanwhile, Sleepy is at his desk like:
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Yeah me either. Hopefully Desmith starts coming around. Allows us to invest more up front.
I feel like Zacha would be a good piece for us to add if we can. Him and Malkin seem like they’d work well.
Don’t you think that’s too much of a gamble though to not upgrade goaltending? You can’t piss away two consecutive years like this. You need some type of insurance. I hope two games against Ottawa and Detroit haven’t convinced people DeSmith is fine.
Don’t justify not making a move because that’s what you think Sleepy will do.
I don’t really see an improvement on Desmith available for cheap.
Zucker-Sid-Rust
Guentzel-Geno-Carter
McGinn-Blueger-Kap
Heinen-Erod-?
Thinking of the playoffs and how to balance our roster...I know GCR is life. But we won't win if they're the only cohesive line.
I go back to Sid/Zucker showing some chemistry. Think that line could work especially if Rust continues balling.
Geno would get two great shooters and Carter to help on draws.
The 3rd line could be a real b**** to play against. Mostly cause Blue/McGinn are real solid together.
Heinen/Erod could be a really nice start to a 4th line. Maybe we can get a heavy RW at the deadline to bolster that line.
We know Zucker-Geno-Kap isn't the answer. So why not get creative.
Extras: Boyle/Zohorna/DOC
Trade: ZAR
Waive: Simon
If nothing else I'd like:
-A heavy bottom 6 wing
-A heavy bottom pairing Dman
The next time a trade is made -- and actually works out -- based solely on "Player X will light it up playing next to Malkin!!!" will be the first one since February 21, 2011.
So I guess we're due.
Neal was traded to play with Crosby.
Only goalie move I could see them making is MAF due to the history/friendship he has with the core. Otherwise I agree, they will roll with what they got. CDS has really picked up his play of late, which I think made goaltending a nonissue in managements mind.
Everyone is mad at you guys for bumping this one and not posting in the new one.
I made that thread purely to discuss LD moving forward and poll it. It was not intended to become the main cap thread
They would be foolish to convince themselves based off two recent games against two non-playoff teams that DeSmith is fine, considering he’s played poorly for about 10 months.
It sucks that Halak might not want to be traded, but this should have been addressed this past off season. I don’t think management is that naive to believe DeSmith is good enough. If management fails to upgrade DeSmith, and our goaltending falters again, that would look awful for them.
They even commented on it with how the team was playing earlier this season giving him a pass.
I can see where adding a depth D-man comes into play, and that might be priority #1 for them. They don't have many sure fire guys they can trust if one of the D-men go down.
Not really. If Jarry implodes again come playoffs, Halak isnt going to save anything. Really there is only 1 goalie that is available and has the pedigree to carry a team in the playoffs, MAF. Halak is just another middling backup. Pens are riding or dying with Jarry.
Yeah.... And there are lots avaiable to add. Scoring is a different question. Depth defense are always needed for long runs. Just annoying they wont try out POJ/Spearman/Riiko first to see what they got.
That's the thing, those are all LD.
Don’t knock Sully’s lineup decisions around these parts.
When has that mattered to our coaches, ever?
Besides Petry, what RD are available? Petry is a pipedream and the last thing we need is to spend more cap space on a defenseman.
I'd try to shake Risto loose from the Flyers. But yeah, RD is a hard find. We are also targeting guys at the top of the list when the target could be further down considering it's the RD #6 spot.
I hate the Luke Schenn kind of target, but he'd be cheap.
I'd try to shake Risto loose from the Flyers. But yeah, RD is a hard find. We are also targeting guys at the top of the list when the target could be further down considering it's the RD #6 spot.
I hate the Luke Schenn kind of target, but he'd be cheap.
Before making any trades, L1 needs to be broken up, as I’ve said before…here’s a poster on another site who broke down some numbers and looked at some other teams, and agrees:
“Without breaking up Guentzel and Rust, things are bound to be difficult. Naturalstattrick.com crashed on me, so I cannot see if this is high or not, but Crosby, Malkin, Carter, Rust, and Guentzel are making up around 53% of the even strength goals since the start of 2022, and Dumo, Letang, and Matheson contributed 17% of total even strength goals in 2022. The entire rest of the team (Rodrigues, Zucker, Kapanen, Heinen, McGinn, Zohorna, Boyle, Bjorkqvist, ZAR (0), Simon, Blueger, Marino(0), Pettersson(0),Ruhwedel(0), DOC(0),Angello(0) has scored 30% of the remaining goals. Out of that "entire rest of the team," Heinen, Kapanen, and Rodrigues have scored 7 goals.
OK stats site back up. In 2022, Florida is in 1st place (Penguins 3rd) with 58 even strength goals, but in 3 less games than the Penguins. Barkov, Huberdeau, Bennett, Lundell, and Reinhart would be considered equivalent of 87,71,77,59,17 (in terms of top 3 center, and top 2 wingers). Those 5 for Florida have 25 of their 58 even strength goals, 43%. They've gotten 6 goals from defensemen during that time, 10%. Mason Marchment, Anthony Duclair, and Carter Verhaghe have added 19 goals, 33%. The rest of the players...Tippett, Hornqvist, Lomberg, Vatrano and Mamim have added another 8 goals 14%
The difference in "secondary scoring" between Pittsburgh and Florida is quite staggering. The 2nd level for Florida, has almost tripled the output of the Penguins "secondary scoring" wingers. Carolina is 4th in even strength goal scoring in 2022 (FLA 1st, COL 2nd, PIT 3rd, CAR 4th). PIT and COL both have 19 games played, FLA and CAR both only 16. So CAR is 3 behind PIT with 3 less games played. Their breakdown:
Aho, Trocheck, Staal, Svechnikov would be their top 4. Debatable if Teravainen or Niederreiter is #5. Teravainen currently on top unit, but Nino has more overall goals so I'll go with Nino. That 5 (top 3 centers and top 2 wingers) has scored 21 of 50 even strength goals, 42%. Their next big 3, Teravainen, Necas, and Jarvis have 5 goals (3 for Jarvis, and both Necas and Teuvo have missed some games). But, Stepan has 4, Lorentz has 3. Those 2 players have almost equaled our next 3, and both of those guys are 4th liners for the Canes. Brady Skjei also has 5 ES goals in 2022, which helps distribute the load.
The Penguins need to balance out their lines, and somebody out of ERod, Heinen, Kapanen or eventually Zucker is going to need to pickup some consistency the rest of the way, or this team will be in trouble.”
Player | GP | 5v5 Points | Per Game |
Jonathan Huberdeau | 47 | 34 | 0.723404255319149 |
Carter Verhaeghe | 46 | 31 | 0.673913043478261 |
Sam Reinhart | 44 | 27 | 0.613636363636364 |
Anthony Duclair | 39 | 24 | 0.615384615384615 |
Anton Lundell | 43 | 23 | 0.534883720930233 |
Mason Marchment | 22 | 20 | 0.909090909090909 |
Aleksander Barkov | 34 | 19 | 0.558823529411765 |
Sam Bennett | 37 | 19 | 0.513513513513513 |
Eetu Luostarinen | 43 | 13 | 0.302325581395349 |
Frank Vatrano | 40 | 12 | 0.3 |
Patric Hornqvist | 37 | 12 | 0.324324324324324 |
Owen Tippett | 41 | 12 | 0.292682926829268 |
Ryan Lomberg | 35 | 10 | 0.285714285714286 |
Maxim Mamin | 23 | 7 | 0.304347826086957 |
Joe Thornton | 24 | 3 | 0.125 |
Zac Dalpe | 1 | 0 | 0 |
Aleksi Heponiemi | 4 | 0 | 0 |
Grigori Denisenko | 1 | 0 | 0 |
Cole Schwindt | 1 | 0 | 0 |
Player | GP | 5v5 Points | Per Game |
Andrei Svechnikov | 43 | 26 | 0.604651162790698 |
Sebastian Aho | 43 | 24 | 0.558139534883721 |
Martin Necas | 42 | 19 | 0.452380952380952 |
Nino Niederreiter | 40 | 19 | 0.475 |
Vincent Trocheck | 46 | 19 | 0.41304347826087 |
Jesperi Kotkaniemi | 43 | 17 | 0.395348837209302 |
Jesper Fast | 46 | 15 | 0.326086956521739 |
Seth Jarvis | 37 | 15 | 0.405405405405405 |
Derek Stepan | 38 | 14 | 0.368421052631579 |
Jordan Staal | 44 | 12 | 0.272727272727273 |
Teuvo Teravainen | 41 | 11 | 0.268292682926829 |
Steven Lorentz | 41 | 10 | 0.24390243902439 |
Jordan Martinook | 30 | 8 | 0.266666666666667 |
Josh Leivo | 7 | 3 | 0.428571428571429 |
Jack Drury | 2 | 2 | 1 |
Stefan Noesen | 2 | 0 | 0 |
Andrew Poturalski | 2 | 0 | 0 |
C.J. Smith | 1 | 0 | 0 |
Player | GP | 5v5 Points | Per Game |
Nazem Kadri | 43 | 34 | 0.790697674418605 |
Mikko Rantanen | 43 | 28 | 0.651162790697674 |
Andre Burakovsky | 44 | 28 | 0.636363636363636 |
Gabriel Landeskog | 38 | 24 | 0.631578947368421 |
Nathan MacKinnon | 32 | 22 | 0.6875 |
Valeri Nichushkin | 30 | 17 | 0.566666666666667 |
Nicolas Aube-Kubel | 34 | 14 | 0.411764705882353 |
Alex Newhook | 36 | 12 | 0.333333333333333 |
Logan O'Connor | 46 | 12 | 0.260869565217391 |
Tyson Jost | 46 | 10 | 0.217391304347826 |
J.T. Compher | 34 | 6 | 0.176470588235294 |
Darren Helm | 34 | 4 | 0.117647058823529 |
Jayson Megna | 20 | 3 | 0.15 |
Kiefer Sherwood | 11 | 2 | 0.181818181818182 |
Dylan Sikura | 5 | 1 | 0.2 |
Mikhail Maltsev | 18 | 0 | 0 |
Martin Kaut | 6 | 0 | 0 |
Sampo Ranta | 10 | 0 | 0 |
Stefan Matteau | 1 | 0 | 0 |
Player | GP | 5v5 Points | Per Game |
Jake Guentzel | 43 | 28 | 0.651162790697674 |
Evan Rodrigues | 49 | 22 | 0.448979591836735 |
Danton Heinen | 43 | 18 | 0.418604651162791 |
Sidney Crosby | 37 | 18 | 0.486486486486487 |
Kasperi Kapanen | 48 | 16 | 0.333333333333333 |
Brock McGinn | 46 | 15 | 0.326086956521739 |
Jeff Carter | 43 | 15 | 0.348837209302326 |
Bryan Rust | 27 | 15 | 0.555555555555556 |
Teddy Blueger | 40 | 14 | 0.35 |
Jason Zucker | 31 | 10 | 0.32258064516129 |
Zach Aston-Reese | 41 | 10 | 0.24390243902439 |
Brian Boyle | 36 | 7 | 0.194444444444444 |
Dominik Simon | 43 | 7 | 0.162790697674419 |
Drew O'Connor | 22 | 5 | 0.227272727272727 |
Evgeni Malkin | 13 | 5 | 0.384615384615385 |
Radim Zohorna | 8 | 2 | 0.25 |
Sam Lafferty | 10 | 2 | 0.2 |
Kasper Bjorkqvist | 6 | 1 | 0.166666666666667 |
Anthony Angello | 1 | 0 | 0 |
As you can see above the big issue isn't our depth scoring.
Players like ZAR, Blueger, Carter, Rodrigues, Heinen and McGinn are scoring at similar rates to their comparable on Colorado, Florida and Carolina. (In the case of Carolina and Colorado they are actually outproducing them)
The big issue is Sid and Geno being pretty damn pedestrian at 5v5.
Also, the reason why the Pens were 5 on 5 machines while both were out leading up to Geno's return, letting said players have upper/bigger roles and cashing in on them.
So, that's not the same because, those teams were not missing their top players. The Pens depth scoring dried up upon their return. Then the PP kicked in for the stars.
I know that was a lot of work, Gurgs. I give you an A+++ for effort.
I don't care about other teams, I just want this team to finally make it out of the 1st round.
No excuse to lose in round 1 every single year.Probably going to be tough especially considering NYR and Carolina probably add.
No excuse to lose in round 1 every single year.
Trade Matheson for Hornqvist and this team wins a Cup with ease.
Minnesota also frightens me, but otherwise I agree with this.Overall, I think it is stupid to compare this team to Florida, Colorado or Tampa. This team is never going to be a favorite against those three teams. I take us against every other playoff team though. Maybe not Calgary.
Then maybe we should add too? Oh yea, I forgot we are now supporting the whole let the chips fall narrative, trying to defend Hextall in case he doesn’t do anything.Probably going to be tough especially considering NYR and Carolina probably add.
MacKinnon has played less games than Crosby.
Barkov has played less games than Crosby.
Carolina has largely been healthy.
Not sure, I buy that excuse.
The difference between "the contenders" in the league and us is that Crosby and Malkin are not 5v5 monsters like the other elite talent on Florida and Colorado. Carolina's talent is comparable to ours.
Florida and Colorado have the best top sixes in hockey and they are largely driven by two players in Huberdeau / Barkov and Kadri / MacKinnon.
The issue with our top six right now is Sullivan assumes our line 1 is driven by Crosby where as to me when I watch the games Guentzel and Rust are the ones doing the scoring. It's why it is so infuriating that a coach that preaches depth won't split them up.
And the depth scoring hasn't really "dried up" so much as in it has been had two of its main catalysts injured in Zucker and Blueger. Losing Zucker forces us to remove a player from the bottom six.
How does he not see that this line has largely been ineffective for three straight playoffs? Why will it suddenly play well in these upcoming playoffs? Because no neck Trotz won’t be there?I'm fixated on the same thing. Line 1 is stacked and clearly right now both Guentzel and Rust are drivers. If we want success we should give Geno one of them.
The issues is GCR isn't a big line and if it's the only line, teams have shut them down the past few playoffs. I like the idea of Zucker tried in Guentzels spot bc he plays a more gritty style fits playoff hockey.
Guentzel with say Geno and Carter who are bigger style players also makes sense to me.
We can't afford to just role GCR and a disjointed 2nd line. We won't win round 1.