Cheddabombs
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- Mar 13, 2012
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New Head Coach search
- Thread starter Lou is God
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- Dec 20, 2018
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You were the one that said it was “hard to find” when it’s literally something that takes five seconds of thought to think of. I am sure I could find other examples as well but I will leave it at that.
Edit: I have some time, lets play this game.
2009: Fleury wasn’t great, was below avg that postseason out of the playoffs goalies
2010: Niemi was below avg
I am sure I can find a few more in the last two decades. Yes, doesn’t happen often but it’s not hard to find. Teams can indeed win without good goaltending. Look at some of the goalies in the Cup Finals that almost won championships. Those Flyers goalies in 2010, Marty in 2012, etc etc.
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TrufleShufle
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- Aug 31, 2012
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Name two teams in the past year that won a Stanley Cup. Betcha can't, betcha can only find like one outlier.
Cmon
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No of course it exists. Most of the time coaches don't get fired mid-season when things are average. Usually it's when a team has not met expectations or has just hit absolute rock bottom. The margins between good and bad teams in this league are quite fine, so you naturally expect a regression to the mean at some point (+players realize there will be real consequences). My point is that the new coach bump didn't even really happen there. They continued to tread water and were still below .500 for a month and a half after Berube took over. It wasn't until Bennington came along and rattled off a 24-5-1 record with a sky high save percentage that their season actually turned around.
I'm not saying Berube gets no credit for any of it, and I actually don't even think he's a bad candidate. But to anoint him as the only option because he won a cup 6 years ago is absurdly more disingenuous than anything I said. You're completely ignoring all other context to these coaches' previous performances.
Wait .. so now you are telling me that Berube won his cup with sub standard goaltending
Ripshot 43
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- Jul 21, 2010
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Media - “Cheddabombs, what will you do to bring the Devils back to the playoffs next year”
Cheddabombs -
No,
Someone suggested that Green may be so bad in Ottawa that he gets fired before the season, and then the Devils come in and swoop him up.
guitarguyvic
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- Mar 31, 2010
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Berube won a cup taking over a team mid-season with a goaltender who played out of his mind during that time. His coaching record outside of that one season is pretty much junk. He’s literally had zero success otherwise.
By contrast, Keefe has a half a decade track record of somehow making a shoddy no-name defense highly effective in its own end despite having shit goaltenders, and making an overall poorly constructed top heavy roster consistent division leaders. Yeah they’ve also consistently melted down in the playoffs but what do you expect from a poorly built team whose biggest stars appear to be mental midgets in the playoffs and don’t have any depth to make up for it?
By contrast, Keefe has a half a decade track record of somehow making a shoddy no-name defense highly effective in its own end despite having shit goaltenders, and making an overall poorly constructed top heavy roster consistent division leaders. Yeah they’ve also consistently melted down in the playoffs but what do you expect from a poorly built team whose biggest stars appear to be mental midgets in the playoffs and don’t have any depth to make up for it?
BurntToast
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Maybe the Devils interviewed Keefe, to see if he knew anything about the Pens situation.
- May 1, 2011
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2014 Quick wasn't anything special either.
2012? Yes. 2014? He was just whatever.
Actually, 2019 Binnington wasn't even really all that great in the playoffs. He certainly was in the regular season, but he was just okay in the playoffs. That may validate the opinion that Berube was amazing though lol.
Most recently we had 2022 Darcy Kuemper, who may have played as poorly as any cup winning starting goalie in a very long time. Probably worse than 2009 Fleury, definitely worse than 2010 Niemi and absolutely worse than 2014 Quick.
And as far as some of the goalies in the finals that almost won championships, one really recent rando was Anton Khudobin in 2020. Now, I'm not saying Khudobin was pedestrian in those playoffs, he wasn't. But that's a name that will probably be most often forgotten among cup finals goalies over the last 15 years or so? Probably since the 2010 Flyers duo? Not to mention that he was considerably up there in age when he went to the finals as a starting goaltender.
Bobrovsky/Hill, Kuemper/Vasilevskiy, Vasilevskiy/Price, Vasilevskiy/?, Binnington/Rask, Holtby/Fleury, Murray/Rinne, Murray/?, Crawford/Bishop, Quick/Lundqvist, Crawford/Rask, Quick/Brodeur, Thomas/Luongo, Niemi/??
The question marks would be Khudobin, Martin Jones and the tag team of Leighton/Boucher. All of them are very easy to forget for the average hockey fan with a better than average memory.
I have a feeling Adin Hill would have been another question mark if not for winning the cup.
I think only the Flyers duo are more random of names than Khudobin and there were two of them those playoffs. I think Leighton was the only one to start in the finals though.
NJDevs26
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And average goalies can also get hot like Thompson last year, Binnington for Berube or even a guy like Chris Osgood way back when.
The logic here has been wild.
“Hard to find” Cup winners without good goaltending
*Shows him 4 examples in the last 15 years*
He ignores the results.
Says Berube got a coach bump, but then won the Cup after said coach bump expired according to his arbitrarily written games played max for a coach bump which makes the cup win more important (lmao), while deeming other coach bumps meaningless.
*Attacks everyone for pointing out how illogical all of this is*
An absolute masterclass in the last few pages. Bravo, 10 out of 10 Danos.
“Hard to find” Cup winners without good goaltending
*Shows him 4 examples in the last 15 years*
He ignores the results.
Says Berube got a coach bump, but then won the Cup after said coach bump expired according to his arbitrarily written games played max for a coach bump which makes the cup win more important (lmao), while deeming other coach bumps meaningless.
*Attacks everyone for pointing out how illogical all of this is*
An absolute masterclass in the last few pages. Bravo, 10 out of 10 Danos.
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I wouldn’t say substandard goaltending, there was a lot of good goaltending that year.
It’s not a league wide stats contest, the only two teams’ goalies compete each round.
Round 1: STL won a close 6 game series vs Winnipeg.
Away team won every game until STL won Game 6.
16 GF vs 16 GA
Hellebuyck .913 vs Binnington .908
Round 2: STL won a close 7 game series vs Dallas.
18 GF vs 17 GA (1 EN GA)
Bishop .922 vs Binnington .922
WCF: Sharks went up 2-1 and then imploded in 6 game series.
Well, Martin Jones imploded and Karlsson, Pavelski & Hertl were injured.
23 GF vs 15 GA (1 EN GA)
Jones .869 vs Binnington .912
SCF: Physical up and down 7 game series with injuries galore.
19 GF (1 EN GF) vs 22 GA (3 EN GA)
Rask .912 vs Binnington .912 &
Allen .750 (25 min in 7-2 L, 1 GA)
- May 1, 2011
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I actually defended Berube when the Blues fired him and wondered why he was being fired for, if they weren't just gonna blow the thing to smithereens.
The roster didn't look like something that could compete as anything better than a bubble team.
But I also think there's better choices.
The roster didn't look like something that could compete as anything better than a bubble team.
But I also think there's better choices.
The pandemic clouds that the Blues were also really good the year following winning the Cup. They were 2nd in the NHL when Covid shut down the season. They fell off the next year when Pietrangelo left.
Devils Trap
Registered User
Just some guy named Elliott Freidman, im sure you would say he isnt a credible source though
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
Elliott isn't tough enough and doesn't have enough grit to be a credible NHL insider
I provided 4 in 15 years, a 26.67% rate
One was literally two years ago
“Hard to find”
One was literally two years ago
“Hard to find”
Devils Trap
Registered User
Yea but 11 of the 15 it didnt happen so case closed sorry
New Custom Title time
But yeah, Keefe Woodcroft. A solid coach if it comes down to one of them
Devils Trap
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TrufleShufle
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Not sure where you get your reports from. But it sounds more like 1 outlier.
Yeah, that seems like a lateral move like Ruff. A long time coach with little success. Woodcroft and Keefe can make a name for themselves here
Emperoreddy
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