Player Discussion Morgan Rielly

[mclaren55]

The way accountability works is when you accept blame for something going wrong, however small a share of it you deserve, it also means it’s within your capability to make things right. It means you have the power to change things positively.

When people say it’s not Morgan’s fault for the OT goal or the 1-1, or the powerplay going to shit, what are you saying anyway? He can’t defend better in key situations, make more of an offensive impact earlier in the series, play with motivation and focus when it’s on the line?

Sir, if you think Rielly is the problem on the PP you weren’t watching. They were constantly denied entry due to their stupid drop pass setup and inability to dump and chase. Not because Morgan doesn’t have a clapper. Anyone notice when Marner was injured the PP started picking up again as well?

 

[Stephen]

Sir, if you think Rielly is the problem on the PP you weren’t watching. They were constantly denied entry due to their stupid drop pass setup and inability to dump and chase. Not because Morgan doesn’t have a clapper. Anyone notice when Marner was injured the PP started picking up again as well?

Rielly’s been an on again off again problem on the PP since 2021. That’s why they tried to throw young Sandin in that role at various times and went out and got Klingberg to PPQB.

Rielly’s PP work is slow on the transition, not dynamic in walking the line. Has no shot and makes predictable plays with the puck.

 

[IPS]

Your spinning off in another direction. I didnt bring up the Avs (who are flailing out of the playoffs ATM due to goaltending differential) to compare them to the Leafs in that way.

But since we're in the Rielly thread, like I said before, Rielly has the same awful PP numbers as the rest of the gang but his direct comparables at even strength would include Cale Makar except Rielly has better defensive numbers. Rielly is easily one of the most valuable playoff dmen at ES the last half decade.


its just strange to me and Ive been warning about this for years now.

1. Everyone agrees goaltending is maybe the most important thing in the playoffs.
2. Campbell, Campbell, Samsonov, Samsonov vs. Price, Vasy, Bobronski, Swayman in the playoffs leads to Leafs losing. (duh)
3. Everyone starts blaming everything else.

We run two goalies that have been kicked out of the league for barely being NHLers against some of the best goalies in hockey and we expect to win? Hell, Samsonov has been benched over the last 2 playoff runs and doesnt seem to take any heat. Any other team fanbase/media and they would at least place a good portion of the blame on goaltending if not all of it. Hell, the only other goalie we've played outside of the two playoff starters we've had is an injury prone rookie who has put up incredible numbers and never taken an L in the playoffs.

If the fanbase continues to wish to destroy the core, thats fine but the big problem there is that they have been the only ones keeping this team in tight series and maybe certain folks around here will finally get their wish for the team to not even make the playoffs next year. (although they might not want it that way after the changes but will get it)

So goaltending you figure is a pretty major part of why the Leafs anually fail in the playoffs, ok.

Where do you rank scoring, and stuff like the PP going 1/20 converting at 5%? This stuff just not even worth discussion or what? I'll tell you the problem, it's the f***ing core dude. They don't produce shit when it matters. How about we address goaltending when we clear some cap that Marner and Tavares are taking up only to go 1/20 on the PP and not even get .5 PPG.

 

[seanlinden]

Sir, if you think Rielly is the problem on the PP you weren’t watching. They were constantly denied entry due to their stupid drop pass setup and inability to dump and chase. Not because Morgan doesn’t have a clapper. Anyone notice when Marner was injured the PP started picking up again as well?

That's actually a really good point... not only how much time they waste trying to gain entry, but how it allows opponents to setup their defensive structure, whereas a dump & chase, if you win it, which you should given that you have numbers, leaves broken plays and space for creativity.

 

[mcleex]

Until this guy develops a proper point shot, I can't take him seriously as a #1 defenseman
It's embarrassing watching him on the PP

 

[Community]

We are something like 24-3-2 without him in the lineup. I think we will be fine.

46-20-7 without Rielly.
35-19-2 without Matthews.

Doesn't mean we're better without either of them.

 

[mclaren55]

Rielly’s been an on again off again problem on the PP since 2021. That’s why they tried to throw young Sandin in that role at various times and went out and got Klingberg to PPQB.

Rielly’s PP work is slow on the transition, not dynamic in walking the line. Has no shot and makes predictable plays with the puck.

I get it, Rielly isn't great on the power play. Know where he is great; even strength scoring. He is 8th in even strength scoring since entering the league. I assume you realize that even strength makes up the majority of the game.

The people knocking on this guy for his perceived power play deficiencies always over look the area he is terrific at, zone exits, first passes, as well as skating and mobility. You WILL NOT find someone to replace him for 7.5m, guaranteed.

Trade the only guy we have that gives it 100% in the playoffs though because he doesn't have a point shot. Sounds about right for leaf fans.

 

[mjd1001]

Until this guy develops a proper point shot, I can't take him seriously as a #1 defenseman
It's embarrassing watching him on the PP

I agree on that and on a lot of points others are making.

Reilly is a really REALLY good 2nd pair D-man. One to give you 20 minutes per game. On that CAN be on your 2ND powerplay unit if needed. He's not a clear cut, without a doubt, #1 D-man.

He is not a top 10-15 guy. He is maybe top 20-50 in terms of overall D-men. That is still a GOOD player, but when people want to start thinking of him as a top guy in the league, that is where expectations do not meet reality.

 

[Ports]

Sir, if you think Rielly is the problem on the PP you weren’t watching. They were constantly denied entry due to their stupid drop pass setup and inability to dump and chase. Not because Morgan doesn’t have a clapper. Anyone notice when Marner was injured the PP started picking up again as well?

Morgan is a black whole on the PP. There are other problems as well but he’s not a shooting threat, over handles the puck, doesn’t walk the line or change his shooting angle. Given these facts and his poor defensive play, they can better use his cap hit for a true top pairing dman.

20-17-5 without Marner, 35-19-2 without Matthews. Point is, the records without a player are meaningless, otherwise you should be parroting about trading Matthews to make the team better.

How's this for a stat for everyone piling on Rielly;

19th in playoff scoring among Dmen since drafted while posting a +14
11th in regular season scoring among Dmen since drafted.

Tell me who replaces him?

Montour for one.

 

[Ports]

I get it, Rielly isn't great on the power play. Know where he is great; even strength scoring. He is 8th in even strength scoring since entering the league. I assume you realize that even strength makes up the majority of the game.

The people knocking on this guy for his perceived power play deficiencies always over look the area he is terrific at, zone exits, first passes, as well as skating and mobility. You WILL NOT find someone to replace him for 7.5m, guaranteed.

Trade the only guy we have that gives it 100% in the playoffs though because he doesn't have a point shot. Sounds about right for leaf fans.

If that was 100% in this year’s playoffs better trade him before he falls off a cliff. He was awful.

 

[ToneDog]

46-20-7 without Rielly.
35-19-2 without Matthews.

Doesn't mean we're better without either of them.

Given the choice, I'd rather have Matty in the lineup. You have given a larger sample size but over the last two seasons they have been virtually unbeatable without Rielly in the lineup. Rielly is a good dman but our best dman needs to be better. As Ports said, they can better use his cap hit for a true top pairing dman.

If that was 100% in this year’s playoffs better trade him before he falls off a cliff. He was awful.

Nah in typical Leafs fashion, they will wait until his value is at it's lowest and then trade him.

 

[Ports]

Given the choice, I'd rather have Matty in the lineup. You have given a larger sample size but over the last two seasons they have been virtually unbeatable without Rielly in the lineup. Rielly is a good dman but our best dman needs to be better. As Ports said, they can better use his cap hit for a true top pairing dman.


Nah in typical Leafs fashion, they will wait until his value is at it's lowest and then trade him.

Should have traded him at the deadline after his 20 goal season but Dubas panicked and threw that 8 year albatross of a no move contract at him.

 

[ToneDog]

Should have traded him at the deadline after his 20 goal season but Dubas panicked and through that 8 year albatross of a no move contract at him.

Listening to Lawton this morning is further evidence for me of management's incompetence for the 5 years under Dubas. We can and we will and I bet everything on this core pretty much sums up how brilliant he was.

 

[Evilhomer]

Everyone was literally madly in love with Rielly after the playoffs last year, and now he's a dog. The truth is somewhere in between. The team desperately needs to bring in a guy who can play above Rielly. There is no UFA who falls into that category, so somehow acquiring that guy in a Marner trade seems like the only possibility, and good luck to Treliving on that one.

 

[ToneDog]

Everyone was literally madly in love with Rielly after the playoffs last year, and now he's a dog. The truth is somewhere in between. The team desperately needs to bring in a guy who can play above Rielly. There is no UFA who falls into that category, so somehow acquiring that guy in a Marner trade seems like the only possibility, and good luck to Treliving on that one.

He is not a dog but we need a better dman and most likely his cap space to get one. It has taken almost 8 years for management to recognize/admit that this core will never get it done. It is time for change. Rielly could/should be one of 3 to go.

Trading Rielly now before he starts to decline hard is also another reason to move him. Like the guy but I do not see him being part of the solution.

 

[Evilhomer]

He is not a dog but we need a better dman and most likely his cap space to get one. It has taken almost 8 years for management to recognize/admit that this core will never get it done. It is time for change. Rielly could/should be one of 3 to go.

Trading Rielly now before he starts to decline hard is also another reason to move him. Like the guy but I do not see him being part of the solution.

I agree, but it's hard to imagine they move off of Marner and Rielly in the same off-season.

 

[Community]

Morgan is a black whole on the PP. There are other problems as well but he’s not a shooting threat, over handles the puck, doesn’t walk the line or change his shooting angle. Given these facts and his poor defensive play, they can better use his cap hit for a true top pairing dman.


Montour for one.

I'm a fan of Montour, but the guy has broken 40pts once (and paced for 41pts this year) while Rielly has paced/surpassed 40pts in each of his last 7 seasons. Montour had a huge season last year which he couldn't replicate this year so let's not just assume he'd easily replace Rielly.

 

[ToneDog]

I agree, but it's hard to imagine they move off of Marner and Rielly in the same off-season.

Agreed I doubt they find a better option this summer. Many say Montour but I am not sure. Remember when Kyper was saying trade Nylander for Montour+? Many did not think much of Montour.

 

[Ports]

I'm a fan of Montour, but the guy has broken 40pts once (and paced for 41pts this year) while Rielly has paced/surpassed 40pts in each of his last 7 seasons. Montour had a huge season last year which he couldn't replicate this year so let's not just assume he'd easily replace Rielly.

The playoffs is where Montour shines. Quick, physical, good puck handler, great shot from the point. If they can sign Montour, nobody will miss Rielly. Rielly’s regular season scoring is because he plays on the second highest scoring regular season team and the PP. The playoffs is where their PP goes 1 for 21 and is the difference in the series. Montour has a bomb from the point and is a great puck handler and will help them more than Rielly when the games really matter.

 

[Evilhomer]

Agreed I doubt they find a better option this summer. Many say Montour but I am not sure. Remember when Kyper was saying trade Nylander for Montour+? Many did not think much of Montour.

Montour is likely going to get a monster contract, and I think whichever team signs him will have to be pretty confident that he doesn't fall off three years into that contract.

 

[Stephen]

I get it, Rielly isn't great on the power play. Know where he is great; even strength scoring. He is 8th in even strength scoring since entering the league. I assume you realize that even strength makes up the majority of the game.

The people knocking on this guy for his perceived power play deficiencies always over look the area he is terrific at, zone exits, first passes, as well as skating and mobility. You WILL NOT find someone to replace him for 7.5m, guaranteed.

Trade the only guy we have that gives it 100% in the playoffs though because he doesn't have a point shot. Sounds about right for leaf fans.

Well, you’ll notice we lost the Bruins series with an abysmal special teams performance on the PP with Rielly as one of the fixtures on the unit. So 5 on 5 play is meat and potatoes stuff but special teams is a separator.

Secondly, if the Boston series was Rielly giving 100% in the playoffs, I don’t think that’s a good sign since that wasn’t really a command performance. I also would disagree with Rielly’s zone exits and speed as things that are strengths. He looked very sluggish out there.

Finally, on the $7.5 million salary. My intention would be to subtract Rielly so his $7.5 million and a kicker could help bring in a more substantial defenseman. I don’t mind paying more for the alpha on D if he brings more value. I don’t want to work with and around Morgan, if that makes sense.

 

[Community]

The playoffs is where Montour shines. Quick, physical, good puck handler, great shot from the point. If they can sign Montour, nobody will miss Rielly. Rielly’s regular season scoring is because he plays on the second highest scoring regular season team and the PP. The playoffs is where their PP goes 1 for 21 and is the difference in the series. Montour has a bomb from the point and is a great puck handler and will help them more than Rielly when the games really matter.

Since Montour has entered the league, Morgan Rielly has produced the same amount of playoff goals in less games and been a significantly better playoff point producer. Playoff point shots are very over-rated and nearly non-existant across the league. We want the puck down low more often, not at the point.

Last year was Montour's best season, by far, and Riellys playoff production was more impressive.

Keep in mind Toronto's struggles offensively and the fact that Rielly still has great playoff stats and I think you should realize he has not been the problem.

If he wasn't on the ice for the game 7 OT goal (which pretty much all the players on the ice f***ed up), he'd be getting a lot less flak. He had a very average series (poor by hid standard), but still had the same amount or more points as Marner and JT and was still tied for 2nd in points and plus/minus.

 

[Community]

Well, you’ll notice we lost the Bruins series with an abysmal special teams performance on the PP with Rielly as one of the fixtures on the unit. So 5 on 5 play is meat and potatoes stuff but special teams is a separator.

Secondly, if the Boston series was Rielly giving 100% in the playoffs, I don’t think that’s a good sign since that wasn’t really a command performance. I also would disagree with Rielly’s zone exits and speed as things that are strengths. He looked very sluggish out there.

Finally, on the $7.5 million salary. My intention would be to subtract Rielly so his $7.5 million and a kicker could help bring in a more substantial defenseman. I don’t mind paying more for the alpha on D if he brings more value. I don’t want to work with and around Morgan, if that makes sense.

If you honestly think Rielly was the biggest problem on the powerplay this year when Marner/Matthews/Nylander/JT are usually the other 4 guys then I don't know what to tell you. If the other 4 guys did their role as well on the powerplay (or better as 11m players should be doing) than we'd have easily been in round 2.

 

[Stephen]

If you honestly think Rielly was the biggest problem on the powerplay this year when Marner/Matthews/Nylander/JT are usually the other 4 guys then I don't know what to tell you. If the other 4 guys did their role as well on the powerplay (or better as 11m players should be doing) than we'd have easily been in round 2.

Rielly is not strong in his role, in what he can control on the ice. Poor lateral mobility, no point shot threat, predictable puck movement, defers zone entries to others with inefficienc drop passes. Doesn’t walk the line quickly, not deceptive in change of angles. Sluggish puck movement. Add it all up, his offensive specialty isn’t all that impressive.

In terms of spreading around the blame to Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander, I have no problem with it and I’m also happy to move on from 50% of that group. Basically if we could delete Rielly, Tavares and Marner, I call that a fresh start.

Rielly has been here in the organization for 12 years already. That’s the bulk of an NHL career. I don’t think stand pat is a great idea when we’ve most likely gotten the best out of him already, and it’s never been good enough.

 

[Ports]

Montour is likely going to get a monster contract, and I think whichever team signs him will have to be pretty confident that he doesn't fall off three years into that contract.

I watch him play in the playoffs and he looks like exactly what they need. In four years Matthews may be gone so their window is now. If not Montour, there are other good dmen out there.