Movies: Kraven the Hunter - August 30, 2024

[tarheelhockey]

Not sure if that's the Kraven I've seen in comics... Also, Kris Carr has said on both Kristian Harloff's and John Campea's shows recently that she knows some people who are working on the movie and they're saying "it's a mess".

By that trailer, it appears to have zero plot and is an excuse for 2 hours of cheap, gratuitous violence.

I'm going to need to see some reviews that convince me otherwise, or it'll be a hard pass.

 

[trojansoilers]

My favorite part was when he said "It's Kraven Time!"

 

[beowulf]

Sony is really trying to make them more and more into anti-heroes or leaning into that as I guess in the comics all of them so far had spent time as such.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

"There is an animal in each one of us." LOL. This looks absolutely terrible. Morbius 2.

 

[Jussi]

"There is an animal in each one of us." LOL. This looks absolutely terrible. Morbius 2.

I would not be surprised. Just the way he seems to be getting his powers...

 

[beowulf]

I would not be surprised. Just the way he seems to be getting his powers...

Indeed since it the comics he gets them from drinking a elixir from a Voodoo priestess called Calypso.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Indeed since it the comics he gets them from drinking a elixir from a Voodoo priestess called Calypso.

I guess that's not going to fly in a contemporary environment. I do get that they have to make plot contrivances to update some of these stories (the way they pulled off The Mandarin was quite interesting) and the anti-hero direction isn't necessarily a problem.

In some ways this just doesn't feel like a Marvel movie. It feels like a Steven Segal movie with some Marvel IP thrown in.

 

[Jussi]

I guess that's not going to fly in a contemporary environment. I do get that they have to make plot contrivances to update some of these stories (the way they pulled off The Mandarin was quite interesting) and the anti-hero direction isn't necessarily a problem.

In some ways this just doesn't feel like a Marvel movie. It feels like a Steven Segal movie with some Marvel IP thrown in.

I can't understand why it wouldn't, they've(Marvel in general) introduced the viewers to magic, cosmic beings and are now introducing mutants. Voodoo would seem very appropriate in that company.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I can't understand why it wouldn't, they've(Marvel in general) introduced the viewers to magic, cosmic beings and are now introducing mutants. Voodoo would seem very appropriate in that company.

Voodoo is an actual religion with some 60 million followers, most of whom are in the most exploited and vulnerable parts of the world. Caricaturing it in the context of a 2023 Hollywood blockbuster would be in poor taste.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

Big fan of Aaron Taylor-Johnson, but this looks terrible!

 

[NyQuil]

Voodoo is an actual religion with some 60 million followers, most of whom are in the most exploited and vulnerable parts of the world. Caricaturing it in the context of a 2023 Hollywood blockbuster would be in poor taste.

Meh, Black Panther used the Hindu monkey deity Hanuman as the totem deity of M'Baku's Wakandan clan.

There are 1.2 billion followers of Hinduism.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Meh, Black Panther used the Hindu monkey deity Hanuman as the totem deity of M'Baku's Wakandan clan.

There are 1.2 billion followers of Hinduism.

And they had to edit that out of the versions of the movie shown in the 1.4 billion person Indian market.

The Kraven origin story is closer to recreating the priest scene in Temple of Doom as a central plot element, except with Africans instead of Indians. It would be a horrible look, especially for Marvel given the contrast to their positive portrayal of Africans in Wakanda. Even in this current movie it looks like they’ve gone out of their way not to do the “heart of darkness” trope, basically just showing Europeans ****ing with animals for sport and getting what was coming to them.

 

[sdf]

Voodoo is an actual religion with some 60 million followers, most of whom are in the most exploited and vulnerable parts of the world. Caricaturing it in the context of a 2023 Hollywood blockbuster would be in poor taste.

It's okay to caricaturing it

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

This isn’t Marvel, don’t forget. This is Sony with their Marvel property.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's okay to caricaturing it

It's really not okay though.

 

[Jussi]

It's really not okay though.

Eh, Kraven's been around for decades, one would think voodoo people (that's a Prodigy reference for people who didn't live in the 90's) would have stuck needles in dolls complained online about it already.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Eh, Kraven's been around for decades, one would think voodoo people (that's a Prodigy reference for people who didn't live in the 90's) would have stuck needles in dolls complained online about it already.

The Mandarin has also been around for decades. That doesn’t mean it’s OK to make a Hollywood reboot of the character using the same exaggerated stereotypes that constituted that character in 1964.

Common ****ing sense says it’s a bad idea for a major Hollywood studio to mock and exploit an actual real-life religion, let alone one closely associated with the world’s most exploited people.

 

[NyQuil]

Common ****ing sense says it’s a bad idea for a major Hollywood studio to mock and exploit an actual real-life religion, let alone one closely associated with the world’s most exploited people.

How many movies about exorcism are out there?

Hollywood has no problem messing around with Catholicism, and many Catholics live in the world's most exploited and poorest countries.

 

[tarheelhockey]

How many movies about exorcism are out there?

Hollywood has no problem messing around with Catholicism, and many Catholics live in the world's most exploited and poorest countries.

If Marvel rolled out a movie which featured a wildly caricatured version of Catholic beliefs, something like an evil Catholic priest using a shard of the True Cross to summon Beelzebub to take over a non-Catholic's body and turn them into a supervillain who wants to install an Anti-Pope to rule the world... yes, of course that would be a terrible idea. We would be stunned at how bad of a decision -- and how bad of a movie -- that would be.

To the extent that such movies exist (usually low-budget, campy, and/or produced decades ago) it's because mainstream audiences are generally familiar enough with Catholicism to have a sense of where the artistic license is taking place. That is not the case with voodoo, which has effectively zero serious and non-scary representation in mainstream media. It's one of the few areas where we don't blink at what amounts to an 19th Century style portrayal of African/Caribbean people.

 

[NyQuil]

If Marvel rolled out a movie which featured a wildly caricatured version of Catholic beliefs, something like an evil Catholic priest using a shard of the True Cross to summon Beelzebub to take over a non-Catholic's body and turn them into a supervillain who wants to install an Anti-Pope to rule the world... yes, of course that would be a terrible idea. We would be stunned at how bad of a decision -- and how bad of a movie -- that would be.

Ok.

In Mexico, a scavenger recovers the tip of the spear that pierced Jesus Christ from a ruined church and, after becoming possessed, takes it to Los Angeles. There, cynical occult expert John Constantine exorcises a demon from a young girl after witnessing its attempt to come through her to Earth, something that should be impossible because of a treaty between Heaven and Hell. Suffering from terminal lung cancer, Constantine meets with the half-breed angel Gabriel to request an extension to his life in exchange for his work deporting Hell's forces. Gabriel responds that performing good deeds for selfish reasons will not secure his way into Heaven.

Elsewhere, detective Angela Dodson is investigating the death of her twin sister Isabel who leaped from a psychiatric hospital roof. Angela refuses to believe her sister, a devout Catholic, would commit suicide and condemn herself to Hell. Watching security footage, Angela hears Isabel say "Constantine", and seeks out his assistance. He refuses to help until he witnesses demons pursuing Angela and fends them off. He uses a ritual to see Isabel in Hell and confirms she killed herself. Constantine tells Angela that he committed suicide as a teenager because he was traumatized by seeing supernatural creatures and, though he was revived, when he dies he is condemned to Hell.

At the morgue, Constantine's friend Father Hennesy discovers a symbol on Isabel's wrist but is killed by the half-breed demon Balthazar. Constantine and Angela discover Hennesy carved the symbol into his hand for them to find. Angela also finds a clue hidden in Isabel's hospital room concerning a chapter of Hell's bible. Before being killed by Balthazar, Constantine's ally Beeman tells the pair the symbol represents the antichrist Mammon, Lucifer's son, and the chapter prophesies him usurping his father and conquering the Earth, using a powerful psychic and divine assistance; the psychic, Isabel, killed herself to stop Mammon. Angela reveals she possessed powers like Isabel's but repressed them to avoid being deemed insane like her sister. Constantine helps Angela reawaken her powers by inducing a near-death experience, and she uses them to find Balthazar.

Constantine interrogates Balthazar and learns that the blood of Christ on the spear tip is Mammon's divine assistance, and Angela has been chosen as his new host. An unseen entity destroys Balthazar and abducts Angela who becomes possessed by Mammon. With the help of witch doctor Papa Midnite, Constantine induces visions to locate Angela at the psychiatric hospital. Alongside his driver and apprentice, Chas Kramer, Constantine arms himself and assaults the building, battling through hordes of demons to Angela. Constantine and Chas seemingly exorcise Mammon from her, but Chas is killed by the unseen force, revealed to be Gabriel. Resentful at God's favoritism for humanity and forgiveness for even the most wicked, Gabriel intends to unleash Hell on Earth so that those who survive will become truly "worthy" of His love. Gabriel tosses Constantine away and prepares to pierce Angela with the spear tip to unleash Mammon.

Desperate, Constantine commits suicide by slitting his wrists, knowing that Lucifer will personally come to collect him. Time pauses and Constantine convinces Lucifer to intervene and stop Mammon. Gabriel ineffectually attempts to smite Lucifer, revealing God has abandoned them, and Lucifer burns away Gabriel's wings before banishing Mammon to Hell. Lucifer offers to restore Constantine to life for his assistance, but he instead asks that Isabel be sent to Heaven. Lucifer releases Isabel, but Constantine begins ascending to Heaven for his selfless sacrifice. Infuriated, Lucifer restores Constantine to life and removes his cancer, believing that, in time, he will prove he belongs in Hell. Constantine punches the now-mortal Gabriel before leaving and entrusts Angela with securing the spear tip. In a post-credits scene, Constantine visits Chas's grave and witnesses Chas in an angelic form.

And guess what, they are making a sequel. (at least until DC went through their big shake-up)

What about End of Days? The Exorcist? Devil's Advocate? Rosemary's Baby?

Or more recently: The Rite? The Conjuring?

To the extent that such movies exist (usually low-budget, campy, and/or produced decades ago) it's because mainstream audiences are generally familiar enough with Catholicism to have a sense of where the artistic license is taking place. That is not the case with voodoo, which has effectively zero serious and non-scary representation in mainstream media. It's one of the few areas where we don't blink at what amounts to an 19th Century style portrayal of African/Caribbean people.

I see it as a double standard.

Plenty of traditionally exploited people in poor places like El Salvador, Central African Republic, Burundi, etc. take their Christianity very seriously.

If anything, they would be better off keeping but modifying the voodoo angle and using it as an opportunity to educate the clearly ignorant, racist and oppressive mainstream film audiences.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Ok.



And guess what, they are making a sequel. (at least until DC went through their big shake-up)

What about End of Days? The Exorcist? Devil's Advocate? Rosemary's Baby?

Or more recently:

The Rite? The Conjuring?

Setting aside the obvious -- that none of these are recent movies, and there has been a clear trend away from religiously-exploitive storylines in major productions -- I agree that these movies were generally cartoonish/exploitive in the way they portray Catholic beliefs. I would be A-OK if Hollywood stopped making this sort of movie.

I see it as a double standard.

As well you should. It's a practice with little to recommend it. Horror shouldn't rely on twisting people's actual religious beliefs into cartoonish boogeymen. It's just shitty and usually very weak writing (see: most of the movies you named).

 

[Jumptheshark]

JC Chandor is a terrific director so I assume it will be at least semi-watchable.

Margin Call is one of my favourite movies. (I was shocked when I found out it was filmed in 17 days)

 

[beowulf]

Setting aside the obvious -- that none of these are recent movies, and there has been a clear trend away from religiously-exploitive storylines in major productions -- I agree that these movies were generally cartoonish/exploitive in the way they portray Catholic beliefs. I would be A-OK if Hollywood stopped making this sort of movie.



As well you should. It's a practice with little to recommend it. Horror shouldn't rely on twisting people's actual religious beliefs into cartoonish boogeymen. It's just shitty and usually very weak writing (see: most of the movies you named).

So I guess no more movies with Islam as the bad religion and the good guy goes around killing Muslim terrorists?

I really could not give a crap as all religions are a joke and exploit people left and right.

 

[tarheelhockey]

So I guess no more movies with Islam as the bad religion and the good guy goes around killing Muslim terrorists?

I’m sorry, what movie are you thinking of that has Islam as the “bad religion”?

I really could not give a crap as all religions are a joke and exploit people left and right.

That’s fine as your opinion, but that is still their culture and belief system. The fact that you view it as a joke doesn’t give you a green light to (literally) demonize them and exploit that demonization for money.

 

[beowulf]

I’m sorry, what movie are you thinking of that has Islam as the “bad religion”?




That’s fine as your opinion, but that is still their culture and belief system. The fact that you view it as a joke doesn’t give you a green light to (literally) demonize them and exploit that demonization for money.

Most recent war movies or spy movies or tv shows? Thew Kingdom, Aladdin, The Siege, Rules of Engagement, True Lies, etc etc. Islam/Muslim/Arabs became the new Soviet/Communist after the end of the Cold War and it continues to this day. Rarely is there an even portrayal of Muslims in Western films. Some do like the recent Guy Ritchie move The Covenant but they seem to be few.

Muslims Underrepresented And Stereotyped In Top-Grossing Films, USC Annenberg Report Finds

Religion is one of the major issues in the world whether today or 2,000 years ago. Religion has caused more wars and death that virtually anything else in our history. Whether the Romans killing Jews or Christian crusaders going to the middle east for centuries up until the recent terrorist attacks my those of the Muslim faiths. It encompasses all religions, whether fighting against another religion or within itself pitting sects against each other. All based on ideas created by humans for humans to try and explain the world around them that they did not understand 2000, 3000, 4000 years ago.

Religions exploit their own members, asking for money, limiting their freedom, making them do stupid things and trying to convince them that you can only be moral and just if you are religious which is a joke. Want exploitation for money? How many the good ole' Christian prosperity gospel, one of the fastest growing denominations of Christianity.


Calypso is not the only Marvel voodoo based character and many are more positive with them being the good guy like Brother Voodoo, he has been the sorcerer supreme in the past for example.