Tribute Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Goodbye and Good Luck

[Goalfield22]

Dvorak was better last year but the poster you quoted talked about this upcoming season and that's where it's less clear since Kotkaniemi has much more room for growth. I'm not sure it would've really surprised anyone if KK in a 2nd line center role with us would've produced 45 points for us, which is probably what we should expect from Dvorak.

OK, but you are ignoring the fact that Dvorak will be in a much better situation on the Habs next season compared to Arizona. It goes both ways.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Dvorak was better last year but the poster you quoted talked about this upcoming season and that's where it's less clear since Kotkaniemi has much more room for growth. I'm not sure it would've really surprised anyone if KK in a 2nd line center role with us would've produced 45 points for us, which is probably what we should expect from Dvorak.

Dvorak will be leaned on heavy and probably 18-19 min a game playing heavy center minutes. KK will be playing wing and some PP time maybe. That poster can talk to me when KK plays center again and is leaned on heavy like Dvorak will be this year.

 

[Goalfield22]

Domi was voted to be more valuable than Price after his 1st season with us cause he put up 72 pts. Tatar was considered a top line LW when people were trying to shop him for futures... cause he had good point totals for LW guys. Points are important but having complete games with little flaws is what makes valued NHL assets.

Expecting KK to improve his skating is the same hope we had with Mete improving on his shot.

And KK has more than just skating he needs to improve on. He is going to suck badly playing wing. His skillset doesn't compliment that role at all.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And KK has more than just skating he needs to improve on. He is going to suck badly playing wing. His skillset doesn't compliment that role at all.

Needs to shorten his stick and have better body protection if he wants to be effective on wing. We tried that already.

He's going to improve yes. But as a winger with flaws. Those who are worried about KK busting out will have to wait for any NHL coach to lean on him heavy playing in a center role first.

 

[Goalfield22]

Needs to shorten his stick and have better body protection if he wants to be effective on wing. We tried that already.

He's going to improve yes. But as a winger with flaws. Those who are worried about KK busting out will have to wait for any NHL coach to lean on him heavy playing in a center role first.

We have and would have continued to put him in that situation. Yeah, he is earning $6.1 mil next year, but this situation is not good for his career overall.

This is one of the few times I don't agree with you though. I don't see him improving by playing wing at all. I think he will regress.

 

[Habs Halifax]

We have and would have continued to put him in that situation. Yeah, he is earning $6.1 mil next year, but this situation is not good for his career overall.

This is one of the few times I don't agree with you though. I don't see him improving by playing wing at all. I think he will regress.

Hard to say but I do see your wing concerns. When I say he improves, I really mean over the next year or two. However, I don't expect him to drive the play either at center or on wing. Not for a while yet

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Good luck to KK. I think if he puts it all together, he can become a comparable player to Jordan Staal down the line.

 

[Sorinth]

OK, but you are ignoring the fact that Dvorak will be in a much better situation on the Habs next season compared to Arizona. It goes both ways.

That's very debatable. We will see but I expect him to get similar ES usage (Good TOI but tilted defensively) and probably less PP opportunities.

And KK has more than just skating he needs to improve on. He is going to suck badly playing wing. His skillset doesn't compliment that role at all.

Dvorak will be leaned on heavy and probably 18-19 min a game playing heavy center minutes. KK will be playing wing and some PP time maybe. That poster can talk to me when KK plays center again and is leaned on heavy like Dvorak will be this year.

It doesn't even matter what KK does in Carolina as a winger, we will never know what he would have done if he used as our 2nd line center this coming year. If Dvorak doesn't take a sizeable step forward in his production then there will always be questions because 45 points was well within KKs potential if he was used as our #2 center.

 

[superstar436]

And KK has more than just skating he needs to improve on. He is going to suck badly playing wing. His skillset doesn't compliment that role at all.

Agree, he was worst as a winger than a centerman. I never saw the offensive skillset in him that some ppl talk about.

 

[tazsub3]

i thought of him as an elite number one center when drafted.
in two years he did nothing but disappoint.
I dont see that ceiling anymore but only time will tell.
In a way i hope i am wrong and i stay wrong and he dont reach what i thought he did

 

[Goalfield22]

That's very debatable. We will see but I expect him to get similar ES usage (Good TOI but tilted defensively) and probably less PP opportunities.





It doesn't even matter what KK does in Carolina as a winger, we will never know what he would have done if he used as our 2nd line center this coming year. If Dvorak doesn't take a sizeable step forward in his production then there will always be questions because 45 points was well within KKs potential if he was used as our #2 center.

45 pts for a C making $4.45 mil for the next 4 years is perfectly reasonable. I am not comparing Dvorak to KK equally. I am looking at their cap hits and what they bring to the table in comparison. For $6.1 mil, he should be better than Dvorak next season. Spoilers: He won't be.

 

[Sorinth]

45 pts for a C making $4.45 mil for the next 4 years is perfectly reasonable. I am not comparing Dvorak to KK equally. I am looking at their cap hits and what they bring to the table in comparison. For $6.1 mil, he should be better than Dvorak next season. Spoilers: He won't be.

I think you said the quiet part out loud.

 

[Goalfield22]

I think you said the quiet part out loud.

Read the rest of the post.

 

[holy]

I’d be lying if I said I didn’t cry myself to sleep for the last week imagining that angelic smile.

 

[jaffy27]

Yeah because regular season play is so much harder.

Kid scored 9 goals in 29 playoff games. He's a gamer and scores when it matters. But he can't score for the lifeof him, right?

that's all great and stuff, but not at 6.1m$.....you just don't do that.

One must make it to the playoffs to produce in them. If he's unable to produce during the year and eats up 6.1m$ of your cap.....not a good situation.

 

[jaffy27]

soooo.....you'd been ok with Bergevin signing Armia at 5.75m$ per?

Is Corey Perry really a better goal scorer then Toffoli?

Hey, I liked KK, but not at that price.

 

[canucklover123]

Never understood why posters say we rushed him, but then argue he should be playing second line C…..

Just so if he fails, same posters can say we fed him to the wolves.

Never ending circle

 

[Habby4Life]

Never understood why posters say we rushed him, but then argue he should be playing second line C…..

Just so if he fails, same posters can say we fed him to the wolves.

Never ending circle

Even last year with sheltered minutes, better linemates, and consistent pp time he was overwhelmed. He is no where ready for 2c and most likely wont in the future.

The fact is he was a bad pick with many flaws that still exist. The Canes did the Habs a favour and now we have Dvorak who is a real center. C ya KK, time not to look back.

Habs need to start drafting BPA with these high picks and stop drafting projects that turn out to be turds.

 

[Not The One]

that's all great and stuff, but not at 6.1m$.....you just don't do that.

One must make it to the playoffs to produce in them. If he's unable to produce during the year and eats up 6.1m$ of your cap.....not a good situation.

Even his supposedly great playoff production is kinda overrated.

Last year: One goal each of his first two games. Then nothing for three games. Then a two-goal game. Then nothing in the last four games. Zero assists in any of those games. Effectively, he didn't contribute a single point in 7 of the last 8 games.

This year: 3 goals 0 assists against TOR. 1 goal 0 assists against WPG. 1 goal 2 assists against VGK and 0 goals 1 assist against TBL. In total, 1 goal and 3 assists in his last 12 games. All the while getting a very offensive zone deployment and PP2 time, forcing the team to overuse defensive assets (Danault). Dis not get a single PP point in the entire playoffs.

His playoff goals were great but someone like Dvorak might have been much more effective overall when he's not scoring.

Never understood why posters say we rushed him, but then argue he should be playing second line C…..

Just so if he fails, same posters can say we fed him to the wolves.

Never ending circle

This. Apparently he should have been in Finland two years ago and in the AHL this year, but we hear complaints that he was benched for 3/22 games in the playoffs.

 

[Goalfield22]

soooo.....you'd been ok with Bergevin signing Armia at 5.75m$ per?

Is Corey Perry really a better goal scorer then Toffoli?

Hey, I liked KK, but not at that price.

They will just point to his age as a response here. That's all they have. Playoff stats and age.

 

[Wats]

I still think the discussion needs to be nuanced and needs to be a case-by-case basis, both player an organization.

I feel like Montreal, or any high pressure market, is not a place to roll the dice on whether they are ready. If we were to dive into looking at the development success stories from Bergevin era, there seems to be a common trend of the players being dominant in previous stage prior to joining Montreal. They also produced almost immediately and kept a consistent role.

1) Gallagher ended junior as one of the few prospects in recent history with 3 straight 40+ goal seasons in WHL before 20. Due to lockout started in AHL and was named an all star. Once the season started started producing right out of the gate and never looked back.

2) Suzuki played his final 2 years in OHL, lit up the playoffs in his final year. Came in as a rookie and after his first 6 games with only 1 point, started to produce (had 12 points in next 20 games to end of November). They kept giving him icetime and PP minutes and they have not really punished him for those cold streaks where he looks like he's not trying.

3) Caufield played in NCAA at age 18/19, dominated in his 2nd year. Signed contract and started producing right away. They kept giving him offensive opportunity and if they leave him with Suzuki/with 1st PP time this season I think they are doing him right. If they start benching him and putting him on 4th line with no PP time, I'd be saying he is better off in AHL working on whatever they feel he is lacking against easier competition.

Tinordi/Juulsen/Fleury/Mete/DLR/McCarron/Romanov/Kotkaniemi are all players who for whatever reason all played in NHL at young age without ever really being that good to begin with yet in their previous stage. They all looked like they can be a NHL regulars. I hope I'm wrong with Romanov but I really don't like the path they are taking with him and feel like they are better off leaving him in KHL to actually be a top 4 D or play him in AHL as top pairing. It's very reminiscent of Mete and it's easy to forget how highly regarded he was as a rookie. I really hope they leave Norlinder off this roster.

 

[Schooner Guy]

What type of goals is he scoring though? Is he Johnny on the spot or is he generating those scoring chances as a center? From what I have seen, he's not driving the play. Still young yes and he needs to get strong lower body to be able to hold onto the puck longer IMO.

8 playoff goals before he turned 21 is insane. It's among the best in NHL history. Are you agreeing with the poster who said he'd be a late-1st or a 2nd round pick if 2018 draft happened today? That's who I was responding to.

 

[Goalfield22]

8 playoff goals before he turned 21 is insane. It's among the best in NHL history. Are you agreeing with the poster who said he'd be a late-1st or a 2nd round pick if 2018 draft happened today? That's who I was responding to.

Yes.

 

[Schooner Guy]

Yes.

LOL!!! A potential contender just paid him $6.1m for the upcoming season. Elliotte Friedman said he talked to many GMs on the weekend who all believe KK will be a really good player.

I get that you'd take a bullet for your idol Bergie but to say KK might not go in the 1st if the 2018 draft was to be held over again is completely asinine! And if he wouldn't go in the 1st, what does that say about Bergie who drafted him #3, was responsible for his development and made the call to keep him in the NHL at age 18?

 

[Goalfield22]

LOL!!! A potential contender just paid him $6.1m for the upcoming season. Elliotte Friedman said he talked to many GMs on the weekend who all believe KK will be a really good player.

I get that you'd take a bullet for your idol Bergie but to say KK might not go in the 1st if the 2018 draft was to be held over again is completely asinine! And if he wouldn't go in the 1st, what does that say about Bergie who drafted him #3, was responsible for his development and made the call to keep in the NHL at age 18?

I don't see value in KK. He was a mid 1st round pick when we selected him at 3OA. I don't see him being much better today. I was more agreeing with a late 1st than a 2nd. A 2nd I would not agree with. A late first seems about right. Wasn't he ranked around 15th his draft year