Rumor: Friedman: Vellucci not coming back

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think it's because he's been an AGM in Carolina as well as he had executive duties with Plymouth when he was there, not due to his AHL coaching experience. I don't think any team would hire him as a GM right off though, but maybe in Carolina (which is a hive mind anyhow), they give him more responsibility as an AGM/Co-GM to transition into a GM role longer term, like they did with Francis and JR.

For me, it depends on if he wants to coach or be in a GM role. We can't offer him any coaching role at the NHL level unless we fire one of our current assistant coaches, which is unlikely.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I think it's because he's been an AGM in Carolina as well as he had executive duties with Plymouth when he was there, not due to his AHL coaching experience. I don't think any team would hire him as a GM right off though, but maybe in Carolina (which is a hive mind anyhow), they give him more responsibility as an AGM/Co-GM to transition into a GM role longer term, like they did with Francis and JR.

I get this and agree that he has this background and perhaps even front office aspirations rather than coaching, but I just don't really see how his success in his coaching role this year is any indication of his performance as an AGM.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I get this and agree that he has this background and perhaps even front office aspirations rather than coaching, but I just don't really see how his success in his coaching role this year is any indication of his performance as an AGM.

Yeah, I don't think it is. I think people are probably thinking he's reached the pinnacle of coaching at the AHL level and may want to move on from that. That means either an NHL coaching gig or some sort of executive/GM type role. At least that's how I thought of it.

I'm not sure how much allegiance he holds toward the Canes in general now that PK, Francis, and JR are all gone. I'm sure the Canes think highly of him though.

 

[GoldiFox]

I get this and agree that he has this background and perhaps even front office aspirations rather than coaching, but I just don't really see how his success in his coaching role this year is any indication of his performance as an AGM.

I think it is more that since hiring Velucci as the "Director of Hockey Operations" 4 years ago the Canes and the Checkers have exploded with depth and young talent. Velucci being able to personally go down and coach the team he helped build as AGM to a 66-21-7 record (regular season + playoffs) and an AHL championship is just icing on the cake.

When the Canes talk about the "Brain Trust" I've always imagined this group includes 1) Dundon, 2) Waddell, 3) Rod, and 4) Velucci. He is a key cog in what goes on. It wouldn't surprise me if Waddell transitioned back to President and Velucci was named GM (If Velucci did not want to explore coaching further).

 

[My Special Purpose]

Francis/Vellucci team in Seattle?

Seriously, I'm not sure what RF did in his time here that would make Seattle or Pittsburgh think he's their guy, but if Peter Chiarelli got two kicks at the can, I guess RF should, too. I can't imagine a worse fit for him that Pittsburgh, though, so that will probably happen.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Maybe it was mentioned earlier, but is his contract up after this year?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I think it is more that since hiring Velucci as the "Director of Hockey Operations" 4 years ago the Canes and the Checkers have exploded with depth and young talent. Velucci being able to personally go down and coach the team he helped build as AGM to a 66-21-7 record (regular season + playoffs) and an AHL championship is just icing on the cake.

When the Canes talk about the "Brain Trust" I've always imagined this group includes 1) Dundon, 2) Waddell, 3) Rod, and 4) Velucci. He is a key cog in what goes on. It wouldn't surprise me if Waddell transitioned back to President and Velucci was named GM (If Velucci did not want to explore coaching further).

Yeah, I don't think it is. I think people are probably thinking he's reached the pinnacle of coaching at the AHL level and may want to move on from that. That means either an NHL coaching gig or some sort of executive/GM type role. At least that's how I thought of it.

I'm not sure how much allegiance he holds toward the Canes in general now that PK, Francis, and JR are all gone. I'm sure the Canes think highly of him though.

Both fair points, and if he does want to be a front office guy it makes sense that this would be the time to move away from coaching.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Francis/Vellucci team in Seattle?

Seriously, I'm not sure what RF did in his time here that would make Seattle or Pittsburgh think he's their guy, but if Peter Chiarelli got two kicks at the can, I guess RF should, too. I can't imagine a worse fit for him that Pittsburgh, though, so that will probably happen.

Time is proving RF to be a darn good draft and develop GM IMO. I think even Dundon would agree that RF set the table pretty well for what they were able to do this year.

And, given he's good at drafting, developing, and rebuilding a pipeline after JR goes all scorched earth trying to squeeze the last bit of toothpaste out of the tube, I think he will be the ideal GM for Pittsburgh in about two years.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Some tweets about Vellucci (hopefully they show up ok)

 

[A Star is Burns]

Francis would be a good GM for a brand new franchise. Steady, methodical, and will quickly load up the pipeline for long term success. He would do well in Seattle, and they'd be smart to hire him.

Vellucci leaving Charlotte should surprise nobody. He has literally nothing more to prove there, and its time for him to take that next step in his career. Whether that is with a position with the Canes or elsewhere, he has absolutely earned the opportunity to maximize his gains, and he'd do very well to use it. Selfishly, I hope its with us, but I hold no grudges if he finds something elsewhere.

That's not a bad theoretical choice and strategy for an expansion team. But after what Vegas did, I wouldn't be surprised if a team wants someone that wants to contend now and knows how to make that happen. That may or may not be Francis. I've had my doubts that he could pull off the big moves as needed, but it's hard to say how he'd do in another environment. He would probably at least be as good as McPhee at getting some assets out of teams to protect certain players. I know there have been quotes floated around about GMs being smart enough to not do that next time, but I think several years after the last expansion draft, they won't be able to help themselves.

I don’t have insight into the inner workings of the NHL so maybe I’m missing something, but in what world is Vellucci a GM candidate? He just won the Calder Cup as a head coach. I get that he’s also in some official position with the Canes, but I’ve never heard his name come up once in any potential GM search. I’m not sure winning the Calder Cup as a HC moves the needle much on his front office resume, but also what do I know?

He has been an AGM here for a number of years and a GM at a lower level previously. The only thing that could prepare him more would be if he was an only/primary AGM rather than a guy that was sharing those duties with several others.

Edit: Screen didn't refresh, I'm way behind

 

[A Star is Burns]

At this point, how many good NHL spots are there that we can't give him? We could probably find him an assistant coaching spot if absolutely necessary. He's already an AGM. Head coach would be Anaheim or bust I would think. Are there any GM spots open or places that would kick a guy upstairs for him? Seems unlikely. Granted, he could just want more money, a new challenge, or a different place to live. I just think his team played so long, there's not that many obvious spots for him.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Time is proving RF to be a darn good draft and develop GM IMO. I think even Dundon would agree that RF set the table pretty well for what they were able to do this year.

And, given he's good at drafting, developing, and rebuilding a pipeline after JR goes all scorched earth trying to squeeze the last bit of toothpaste out of the tube, I think he will be the ideal GM for Pittsburgh in about two years.

Wait a sec. Saying that Francis built a Calder Cup championship team is damning with faint praise if I've ever heard it. We had four No. 1 picks playing for Charlotte because none of them were playing for Carolina. Look, I'm not going to get into a debate of RF's strengths and weaknesses in another thread, but the guy is simply not a GM. He's a scouting director, or and AGM in charge of prospects, or an AHL GM. He was completely focused on *one* aspect of the 20 job requirements necessary to be an NHL GM. And he wasn't even super-great at it (Haydn Fleury, Noah Hanifin, Bean over McAvoy). He acquired and made a lot of draft picks. That's pretty much it.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think we have another topic to add to your self ban list.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Wait a sec. Saying that Francis built a Calder Cup championship team is damning with faint praise if I've ever heard it. We had four No. 1 picks playing for Charlotte because none of them were playing for Carolina. Look, I'm not going to get into a debate of RF's strengths and weaknesses in another thread, but the guy is simply not a GM. He's a scouting director, or and AGM in charge of prospects, or an AHL GM. He was completely focused on *one* aspect of the 20 job requirements necessary to be an NHL GM. And he wasn't even super-great at it (Haydn Fleury, Noah Hanifin, Bean over McAvoy). He acquired and made a lot of draft picks. That's pretty much it.

I didn't say that at all lol. I simply said he got this franchise back to the point where it had a lot of good raw materials.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I didn't say that at all lol. I simply said he got this franchise back to the point where it had a lot of good raw materials.

I wasn't saying that you did. I was just saying that the running joke -- on this board and on Twitter -- that Francis built a Calder Cup championship team -- doesn't necessarily equate to "proving RF to be a darn good draft and develop GM."

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I wasn't saying that you did. I was just saying that the running joke -- on this board and on Twitter -- that Francis built a Calder Cup championship team -- doesn't necessarily equate to "proving RF to be a darn good draft and develop GM."

Agreed.

I think that if you list the players and controlled assets of the team and list the GM that was responsible for bringing them into the organization, Francis built a huge part of of this team.

The criticism of him is clear, that he couldn't put it all together or couldn't make the big shakeup move that he needed to, and I think you're right that maybe that makes him a better AGM or Scouting Director. But he made a lot of shrewd moves, likely under some restrictions from Karmanos that may not have been there under Dundon, and should be recognized for them.

I'll rephrase for clarity, time has proved that RF was darn good at the draft/develop and asset building aspects of being a GM. If I were his defense council, I'd also point at the state of the franchise he inherited, which was devoid of both NHL talent and a decent prospect pool. I don't think he was a top notch GM, but he pulled us out of the wasteland that JR drove us into, and did so pretty well. I don't think he would be a bottom 10 GM in the league were he to be hired by someone today. I'd also be interested to see what he could do under a real owner.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

From Wikipedia, these were the team stats the season immediately before RF took over:

Player	GP	G	A	Pts	+/−	PIM
Eric Staal	79	21	40	61	−13	74
Jeff Skinner	71	33	21	54	−14	22
Andrej Sekera	74	11	33	44	4	20
Alexander Semin	65	22	20	42	1	42
Jordan Staal	82	15	25	40	2	34
Justin Faulk	76	5	27	32	−9	37
Nathan Gerbe	81	16	15	31	−6	36
Jiri Tlusty	68	16	14	30	2	22
Riley Nash	73	10	14	24	0	29
Patrick Dwyer	75	8	14	22	−2	14
Elias Lindholm	58	9	12	21	−14	4
Tuomo Ruutu‡	57	5	11	16	−19	34
Ron Hainsey	82	4	11	15	−9	45
Jay Harrison	68	4	11	15	−1	44
Manny Malhotra	69	7	6	13	0	18
Drayson Bowman	70	4	8	12	−2	16
Ryan Murphy	48	2	10	12	−9	10
Andrei Loktionov†	20	3	7	10	−4	2
Radek Dvorak	60	4	5	9	3	41
John-Michael Liles†	35	2	7	9	7	8
Brett Bellemore	64	2	6	8	−1	45
Mike Komisarek	32	0	4	4	−4	14
Zach Boychuk	11	1	3	4	2	0
Brett Sutter	17	1	1	2	−4	9
Chris Terry	10	0	2	2	−4	0
Tim Gleason‡	17	0	1	1	−7	10
Aaron Palushaj	2	0	0	0	−1	0
Kevin Westgarth‡	12	0	0	0	−2	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[the halleJOKEL]

From Wikipedia, these were the team stats the season immediately before RF took over:

Player	GP	G	A	Pts	+/−	PIM
Eric Staal	79	21	40	61	−13	74
Jeff Skinner	71	33	21	54	−14	22
Andrej Sekera	74	11	33	44	4	20
Alexander Semin	65	22	20	42	1	42
Jordan Staal	82	15	25	40	2	34
Justin Faulk	76	5	27	32	−9	37
Nathan Gerbe	81	16	15	31	−6	36
Jiri Tlusty	68	16	14	30	2	22
Riley Nash	73	10	14	24	0	29
Patrick Dwyer	75	8	14	22	−2	14
Elias Lindholm	58	9	12	21	−14	4
Tuomo Ruutu‡	57	5	11	16	−19	34
Ron Hainsey	82	4	11	15	−9	45
Jay Harrison	68	4	11	15	−1	44
Manny Malhotra	69	7	6	13	0	18
Drayson Bowman	70	4	8	12	−2	16
Ryan Murphy	48	2	10	12	−9	10
Andrei Loktionov†	20	3	7	10	−4	2
Radek Dvorak	60	4	5	9	3	41
John-Michael Liles†	35	2	7	9	7	8
Brett Bellemore	64	2	6	8	−1	45
Mike Komisarek	32	0	4	4	−4	14
Zach Boychuk	11	1	3	4	2	0
Brett Sutter	17	1	1	2	−4	9
Chris Terry	10	0	2	2	−4	0
Tim Gleason‡	17	0	1	1	−7	10
Aaron Palushaj	2	0	0	0	−1	0
Kevin Westgarth‡	12	0	0	0	−2	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

thanks i hate it

 

[HisIceness]

Wow, I completely forgot Mike Komisarek once suited up for this franchise. Dvorak too, holy moly.

 

[MD]

I hope Velluci stays in this organization in some capacity, but I would really love to see Tulsky take over as GM eventually. He has a brilliant mind and I’m sure has had a big say in things these past few years.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I hope Velluci stays in this organization in some capacity, but I would really love to see Tulsky take over as GM eventually. He has a brilliant mind and I’m sure has had a big say in things these past few years.

I'm not sure that's the best use of Tulsky. GMs have a LOT more on their plate than just evaluating and targeting players. They deal with other GMs, the league, agents, the press, etc... they negotiate contracts, they worry about the business side of things (ticket sales, arena stuff, etc..) among many other things. Tulsky is fantastic at analytics. Why burden him with these other things vs. just getting the most out of him in the role he's currently in? With the hive mind the Canes have in place, he already has a big say in things player/personnel related.

 

[MinJaBen]

I'm not sure that's the best use of Tulsky. GMs have a LOT more on their plate than just evaluating and targeting players. They deal with other GMs, the league, agents, the press, etc... they negotiate contracts, they worry about the business side of things (ticket sales, arena stuff, etc..) among many other things. Tulsky is fantastic at analytics. Why burden him with these other things vs. just getting the most out of him in the role he's currently in? With the hive mind the Canes have in place, he already has a big say in things player/personnel related.

Isn't the first thing why Dundon put in the second thing? With the new way of doing things, why couldn't Tulsky be the "GM" with his little analytics hat, too, while others do the a lot of the other things?

 

[GoldiFox]

Isn't the first thing why Dundon put in the second thing? With the new way of doing things, why couldn't Tulsky be the "GM" with his little analytics hat, too, while others do the a lot of the other things?

GMing is a good ole boys club full of lifelong NHL/hockey alumni while Tulsky has a PhD in Chemistry and a background in applied nanoparticles.

Tulsky is elite level analytical support staff. Leave the negotiating and networking to the negotiators and networkers. I'd rather have Tulsky running numbers than on the phone with Paul Fenton trying to make an irrational trade (analytically) like Nino for Rask.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Isn't the first thing why Dundon put in the second thing? With the new way of doing things, why couldn't Tulsky be the "GM" with his little analytics hat, too, while others do the a lot of the other things?

To some extent, yes, but even with the hive mind, there are more responsibilities a GM has and there is no way around it. Other GMs are going to call the Canes GM when they want to make a trade or inquire about a player. GM is the guy that's going to be meeting the press regularly. If negotiations get difficult, the GM has to step in, etc.., etc...

I just think that just because Tulsky is great at analytics, doesn't mean he'll be great as a GM (nor that it would be the best use of him, nor does it mean he even wants to do it).

 

[MinJaBen]

I just think that just because Tulsky is great at analytics, doesn't mean he'll be great as a GM (nor that it would be the best use of him, nor does it mean he even wants to do it).

True, but just cause he's great at analytics doesn't mean he's not good at the other things you said a GM needs to do, either. The important thing to ask is is he interested in that for his career? If he is, we may have to choose at some point between letting him have a shot, or losing him to someone who will give him that shot.