Fertitta shows renewed interest in bringing hockey to Houston (Bloomberg)

[BKIslandersFan]

They have to fix that Winnipeg situation too. I don't see the Canadian TV deal being great growth this time around. Winnipeg has a small corporate base, the arena is small so they can't make up revenue by lowering tickets prices and offering more. The Canadian media thumping the bandwagon of more Canadians teams after the lockout and salary cap were short cited and now you're starting to see what these WHA markets are really like post honeymoon period again.

Winnipeg is having a great season this year. so we need to see what the season ticket sale is like next year.

TB sold like 40% of their team for a valuation of $1.4 billion. (so, they got $560 million for that 40%). Houston is a larger market, as would ATL be as well. Probably why he's targeting that range.

If that is the range the NHL wants Houston to pay, can Fertitia handle that? Toyota Center, opened in like 2003, so it's only 20 years old. If the location works, I assume renovations would be made to upgrade the facility, vs build a new one.

HIs net worth is $9.6B, so if he really wants to he probably can.

 

[KevFu]

HIs net worth is $9.6B, so if he really wants to he probably can.

The University of Houston basketball team (who will be #1 in the polls tomorrow) did a $60m renovation of their basketball arena, finished in 2018. Upon it's completion, they renamed the building the Fertitta Center.

Dude is in "Eff You Money" class for sure.

 

[lakeshirts37]

As a pragmatist and a realist, I understand both the Canadian feelings of the NHL "turning its back" on a loyal fan base for their product in Canada, and the business side of ATL, HOU, PHX, DAL, DEN are just bigger markets than WIN, QC, and Hartford.

But the fact that Winnipeg and Quebec might struggle to keep up financially in the NHL means you need to FIX that in the NHL, because it's a sign you're making your product unobtainable to he masses and in danger of becoming a brand like Lexus.

Atlanta, Houston, and Salt Lake should HELP Quebec City get a team, not price them out of it.

QC is not getting a team and they shouldnt

As a pragmatist and a realist, I understand both the Canadian feelings of the NHL "turning its back" on a loyal fan base for their product in Canada, and the business side of ATL, HOU, PHX, DAL, DEN are just bigger markets than WIN, QC, and Hartford.

But the fact that Winnipeg and Quebec might struggle to keep up financially in the NHL means you need to FIX that in the NHL, because it's a sign you're making your product unobtainable to he masses and in danger of becoming a brand like Lexus.

Atlanta, Houston, and Salt Lake should HELP Quebec City get a team, not price them out of it.

Yeah or the canadian economy is in the toilet and WPG, QC are tiny markets that should not have NHL teams

 

[Major4Boarding]

The University of Houston basketball team (who will be #1 in the polls tomorrow) did a $60m renovation of their basketball arena, finished in 2018. Upon it's completion, they renamed the building the Fertitta Center.

Dude is in "Eff You Money" class for sure.

Don’t forget “Middle Class Billionaire“

 

[KevFu]

Well, yeah, that remains hilarious, but owning two of NHL, NBA and MLB is the same price as an NFL team.

NFL teams just aren't for sale very often. 10 teams have been owned for 70+ years by the same family. Half the league hasn't been up for sale for over 35 years (if ever).


The Green Bay Packers, Chicago Bears and New York Giants were purchased for a combined $600.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Well, yeah, that remains hilarious, but owning two of NHL, NBA and MLB is the same price as an NFL team.

NFL teams just aren't for sale very often. 10 teams have been owned for 70+ years by the same family. Half the league hasn't been up for sale for over 35 years (if ever).


The Green Bay Packers, Chicago Bears and New York Giants were purchased for a combined $600.

Think some higher tier NBA and MLB teams are worth more than lower tier NFL teams but yea. NFL is king.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Keeping a team in Arizona has always been Bettman's M.O.

I don't think it's his m.o. at all. I think he's much more concerned about following process, because as a lawyer the last thing he wants to do is establish a different precedent and then have it used against him and all the other owners. The "doing everything he can for Arizona" complaints really is more about him avoiding the league getting involved in dictating what any team does. As long as whoever owns the team in Arizona isn't shorting the league or other creditors, he's going to let them be accountable for their actions.

 

[ponder719]

Think some higher tier NBA and MLB teams are worth more than lower tier NFL teams but yea. NFL is king.

Take this with a whole shaker of salt, since it's just an infographic tied to a subscriber-only article I don't have access to, but Sportico's list of the 100 most valuable sports franchises goes NFL, NBA, NBA, NBA, MLB at the top before the NFL truly asserts itself (10 of the next 11 teams are NFL, and the lowest-ranked NFL team is tied for 53rd.) The NHL, meanwhile, doesn't poke its head in until #82.

 

[StreetHawk]

Think some higher tier NBA and MLB teams are worth more than lower tier NFL teams but yea. NFL is king.

You'd be talking about like the truly elite teams with history, like the Lakers. Yankees, Dodgers, etc.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Yeah, teams in the NBA and MLB can be worth more than some NFL teams, but those are limited to either exceptionally profitable basketball and baseball teams or dismally underperforming football teams that are exceptions and not the rule.

 

[MeHateHe]

Yeah or the canadian economy is in the toilet

People who keep repeating this nonsense need to show their work. Canada's economy is okay - not great but not terrible. All the leading indicators are soft to be sure - but there is some growth, employment levels are more or less stable, inflation is coming down and interest rates will likely start to come down in the next few quarters.

It's like you people were not around in 2008 when there was an actual recession things were, like, bad.

 

[RogerRoger]

People who keep repeating this nonsense need to show their work. Canada's economy is okay - not great but not terrible. All the leading indicators are soft to be sure - but there is some growth, employment levels are more or less stable, inflation is coming down and interest rates will likely start to come down in the next few quarters.

It's like you people were not around in 2008 when there was an actual recession things were, like, bad.

The GDP per capita keeps shrinking, that's not soft, that's terrible.

 

[MeHateHe]

The GDP per capita keeps shrinking, that's not soft, that's terrible.

Productivity in many western economies has been an issue for decades. And in Canada, it's an exaggerated factor because we abandoned our manufacturing sector and have an over-reliance on commodities.

The actual impact of any of this on sports teams and their ability to attract fans is negligible. People are working and wages are starting to rise. There's no comparison between the situation today and what we went through in, say, the early 1990s or late 2000s.

 

[Tawnos]

Productivity in many western economies has been an issue for decades. And in Canada, it's an exaggerated factor because we abandoned our manufacturing sector and have an over-reliance on commodities.

The actual impact of any of this on sports teams and their ability to attract fans is negligible. People are working and wages are starting to rise. There's no comparison between the situation today and what we went through in, say, the early 1990s or late 2000s.

Yep, agreed. The big issue, though, will always be the exchange rate. In 2013, when the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg, the average exchange rate for the year was $0.97 CDN to USD. Nearly par. It spent part of the year over $1.00. By the time you got the the QC bid in 2016, it was around $0.75. It's fluctuated a bit since then, but is around $0.75 today. It's never gotten to near par again. The expectation seems to be that it'll get worse this year, but I don't really have a lot of respect for economic forecasting so we'll see.

For the bigger markets in Canada, it's not a huge issue. For Winnipeg and a hypothetical QC team? It's a problem.

 

[MeHateHe]

The big issue, though, will always be the exchange rate. In 2013, when the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg, the average exchange rate for the year was $0.97 CDN to USD.

For sure, the exchange rate is a challenge, but that has more to do with being able to afford to attract and retain talent, both on and off the ice. When the Canadian dollar was trading around 63 cents US in the early 2000s, smaller market teams in Canada were struggling, especially without the salary cap.

And yes, of course this means that there's a premium on price that comes with a more sluggish Canadian dollar. Winnipeg is certainly more challenged than, say, Edmonton, given the relative lack of corporate support. Having said that, as I've said in other threads, the level of marketing savvy shown by Canadian sports franchises in just about every sport at most levels is shockingly bad. The surprising exception has been the Toronto Raptors. Hockey teams at all levels are locked into a 1955 mindset.

My sole reason for getting into this discussion was to respond to the over-wrought generalization that the Canadian economy is "in the toliet." It's not, and it hasn't been for 15 years. Things aren't terrific, and economic gains are not evenly distributed across the country, nor are they distributed well demographically, but things aren't that bad either.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

For sure, the exchange rate is a challenge, but that has more to do with being able to afford to attract and retain talent, both on and off the ice. When the Canadian dollar was trading around 63 cents US in the early 2000s, smaller market teams in Canada were struggling, especially without the salary cap.

A lot of that had to do with whether players were paid in $CN or $US and the increasing push by players to be paid in $US, because $X US was worth a lot more than $X CN.

That's why since 2005 it's been specified that all new contracts are paid in the same currency ($US). That way every team knows the currency basis and Canadian teams can strive to target revenues accordingly.

 

[lakeshirts37]

For sure, the exchange rate is a challenge, but that has more to do with being able to afford to attract and retain talent, both on and off the ice. When the Canadian dollar was trading around 63 cents US in the early 2000s, smaller market teams in Canada were struggling, especially without the salary cap.

And yes, of course this means that there's a premium on price that comes with a more sluggish Canadian dollar. Winnipeg is certainly more challenged than, say, Edmonton, given the relative lack of corporate support. Having said that, as I've said in other threads, the level of marketing savvy shown by Canadian sports franchises in just about every sport at most levels is shockingly bad. The surprising exception has been the Toronto Raptors. Hockey teams at all levels are locked into a 1955 mindset.

My sole reason for getting into this discussion was to respond to the over-wrought generalization that the Canadian economy is "in the toliet." It's not, and it hasn't been for 15 years. Things aren't terrific, and economic gains are not evenly distributed across the country, nor are they distributed well demographically, but things aren't that bad either.

Isnt that a big problem though?

 

[MeHateHe]

Isnt that a big problem though?

Sure. I'm not arguing it. But skip down a couple of paragraphs.

 

[Tawnos]

For sure, the exchange rate is a challenge, but that has more to do with being able to afford to attract and retain talent, both on and off the ice. When the Canadian dollar was trading around 63 cents US in the early 2000s, smaller market teams in Canada were struggling, especially without the salary cap.

And yes, of course this means that there's a premium on price that comes with a more sluggish Canadian dollar. Winnipeg is certainly more challenged than, say, Edmonton, given the relative lack of corporate support. Having said that, as I've said in other threads, the level of marketing savvy shown by Canadian sports franchises in just about every sport at most levels is shockingly bad. The surprising exception has been the Toronto Raptors. Hockey teams at all levels are locked into a 1955 mindset.

My sole reason for getting into this discussion was to respond to the over-wrought generalization that the Canadian economy is "in the toliet." It's not, and it hasn't been for 15 years. Things aren't terrific, and economic gains are not evenly distributed across the country, nor are they distributed well demographically, but things aren't that bad either.

The exchange rate point is far more about profits than necessarily affording and retaining talent, though of course there's a connection. I don't think Winnipeg has any issues hitting the cap floor, but when they're having to pay $1.35 USD per $1 CDN when all of their revenue is in CDN, that's a big hit to profit margin for a team that has less room for error no matter what their payroll and revenue are in reality.

But I agree about the Canadian economy overall.

 

[MeHateHe]

But I agree about the Canadian economy overall.

Don't make me agree with you again.

 

[KevFu]

For sure, the exchange rate is a challenge, but that has more to do with being able to afford to attract and retain talent, both on and off the ice. When the Canadian dollar was trading around 63 cents US in the early 2000s, smaller market teams in Canada were struggling, especially without the salary cap.

And yes, of course this means that there's a premium on price that comes with a more sluggish Canadian dollar. Winnipeg is certainly more challenged than, say, Edmonton, given the relative lack of corporate support. Having said that, as I've said in other threads, the level of marketing savvy shown by Canadian sports franchises in just about every sport at most levels is shockingly bad. The surprising exception has been the Toronto Raptors. Hockey teams at all levels are locked into a 1955 mindset.

My sole reason for getting into this discussion was to respond to the over-wrought generalization that the Canadian economy is "in the toliet." It's not, and it hasn't been for 15 years. Things aren't terrific, and economic gains are not evenly distributed across the country, nor are they distributed well demographically, but things aren't that bad either.

I don't understand the whole Canadian Dollar vs US Dollar aspect of it.

Like, yeah, the Canadian dollar isn't as valued as highly as USD, but things in Canada cost more Canadian dollars, right? Isn't the price dictated by the relative worth of the currency you're using, but the product carries the same worth in both countries?

I.E. - If Winnipeg and Buffalo tickets are worth the same amount, and Buffalo fans pay $73 USD, . Winnipeg fans pay $96 CAN dollars, because $96 CAN = $73 USD.

What am I missing? Is it the fluctuations of the value that causes the problem?

 

[Tawnos]

I don't understand the whole Canadian Dollar vs US Dollar aspect of it.

Like, yeah, the Canadian dollar isn't as valued as highly as USD, but things in Canada cost more Canadian dollars, right? Isn't the price dictated by the relative worth of the currency you're using, but the product carries the same worth in both countries?

I.E. - If Winnipeg and Buffalo tickets are worth the same amount, and Buffalo fans pay $73 USD, . Winnipeg fans pay $96 CAN dollars, because $96 CAN = $73 USD.

What am I missing? Is it the fluctuations of the value that causes the problem?

Pretty sure that, demand being equal, those Winnipeg fans are paying $73 CDN.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I don't understand the whole Canadian Dollar vs US Dollar aspect of it.

Like, yeah, the Canadian dollar isn't as valued as highly as USD, but things in Canada cost more Canadian dollars, right? Isn't the price dictated by the relative worth of the currency you're using, but the product carries the same worth in both countries?

I.E. - If Winnipeg and Buffalo tickets are worth the same amount, and Buffalo fans pay $73 USD, . Winnipeg fans pay $96 CAN dollars, because $96 CAN = $73 USD.

What am I missing? Is it the fluctuations of the value that causes the problem?

Generally speaking you're right. And yes - it is the fluctuations that causes problems. If you're the Jets and your income is in C$, and your major expense in US$ - if suddenly the value of the C$ drops you have a mismatch.

But the exchange rate right now is about what would be called "typical", so whatever is going on in Winnipeg right now it's not related to exchange rates.

 

[aqib]

Generally speaking you're right. And yes - it is the fluctuations that causes problems. If you're the Jets and your income is in C$, and your major expense in US$ - if suddenly the value of the C$ drops you have a mismatch.

But the exchange rate right now is about what would be called "typical", so whatever is going on in Winnipeg right now it's not related to exchange rates.

A large part of what's going on is that many of the season tickets are groups of people/families dividing them up and Canada's cost of living crisis has put the squeeze on people so if one family drops out the whole group is done. Eventually this cost of living situation has to normalize not just for hockey.

 

[KevFu]

Yeah, I think the "problem" in Winnipeg is simply that it's the SAME people spending the money on the Jets over and over and over again. And any price increase leads to attrition.

Where larger markets just have a massive supply of occasional customers by comparison. So they can offset the diehards being priced out by marketing and advertising so people who go A GAME every 2-5 years to show up to one again.