Podcast (Audio) Do the Rangers need Eichel?

[Shesterkybomb]

They were, and really, what did Nash do for us? He was MIA in the playoffs during our one cup run. The best thing he did for us was bring back Lindgren in trade.

And miller and strome.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Well GM's that are actually in the NHL clearly are not going out and paying the premium that Buffalo wants. So that says something. I get why people would be excited by Eichel, but the devil is in the details. Neck surgery/Attitude/Huge cap hit for 5 more seasons with a NMC that kicks in next year. Enough to make a lot of people say no thanks.

 

[bernmeister]

Respectfully, this is why people like Stellick are commentators and not GM's. I like Gord a lot, but he couldn't be more wrong here. Going all out for a very talented, very injured, malcontent is a Rangers of 97-04 move. An era that many of us are still trying to erase from our memories.

agree, except as to malcontent reference.
Eich made his bed and took top dollar long term.
Now that was made with a reasonable expectation the club would make a legit effort to build a legit Cup challenger.
Instead Sabes have been terrible.
He wants out.
He has a right to demand that given BUF failure.
But neither he nor Sabes have a right to demand a team bail them out of Sabes terms to end their problem.

Yes.

no price is still too high, totality of factors, including both known costs and unknown risks

I'd do it for a higher/fairer price than that, but it relies on so much juggling with the salary cap, so much knowledge about what the alternative options are that we don't have as fans, knowledge about his injury that we don't have that it's IMO impossible to be unconditionally gung-ho about it. But I'm sure I'm still in like the 75% percentile of wanting to make the move on HFNYR.

I hope our base is smarter than that, but
we didn't give Nieves a chance when it cost ZILCH to try [even if he was only a short term stopgap, there was ZERO reason to not try]
and
this base is about to repeat that mistake by not giving Kravtsov a shot at pivot under my specific advice -- between Kakko + righty shot Panarin at RW. Again, on paper, no reason to not try. risk is minimal [shift back to W if not happenin] and upside is huge [solves many problems].

Let's hope open minds will hear this.

Yes, but I doubt the price is ever THAT low. The reality is that we'll for sure have to send at least one of Lundqvist/Schneider/Kravtsov the other way and I'd really like to see all three of them on NHL ice before trading any of them (Yes, I'm aware Kravtsov has played a few games but I want a bigger sample size before he's potentially moved in a trade).

No price is still too high, totality of factors, including both known costs and unknown risks

Of course. I'd want Drury fired if he didn't. That is too low to refuse... obviously pending a medical eval.

I'd even be fine with a bit more than that. But going all out implies caving to Buffalo's ask of some combination of Kakko, Laf, Lundkvist, Kravtsov, 1st.

No price is still too high, totality of factors, including both known costs and unknown risks

Of course. This offer would be like paying with change from our couch cushion. It won’t be that small.

No price is still too high, totality of factors, including both known costs and unknown risks

A similar package to the one for Nash would be Chytl+Buch then?

No on moving Chytil

if we make an offer it should be
Buch + Strome + Jones
for
Eich and conditional picks [multiple 1sts] if Eich doesn't recover from neck surgery, play up to a certain standard, etc.

If that doesn't cut it, fine.

We are better off looking elsewhere, and I think we are better off
a) building
and
b) if we go big we go for Matthews, and we still do that without dealing our bluest blue chips [other than Jones]. We do something around Zib ++ there, and if/when I get time I'll post it later.

 

[bernmeister]

We suffered to develop the bluest blue chip elcs we have.
Other than Jones, who is made redundant surplus by everybody else and is not supplanting Fox, none can be spared if we want a deep roster, one which is inexpensive, productive, and allows for raises to Fox and Shesty now with big deals that are cost effective long term, and $$ for elcs->rfas, etc.

Stop pls everyone with this nonsense about dealing bluest blue chips.

sell high on Buch, Strome, Zib

bank highly desired futures currency that is useful when correct splurge opportunity emerges [maybe another PLD type situation?]

we have our top $ guy in breadman
couple of sloppy overreaches and we easily turn into top heavy Toronto.
Who wants that stupidity?

we are not gonna have real room for a real splurge upgrade until
we move Strome, Buch and Zib
and
we can move Trouba's 8m and replace w/Schneider

 

[NYSPORTS]

Stop pls everyone with this nonsense about dealing bluest blue chips.

sell high on Buch, Strome, Zib

great post. Moving those three would open up a lot of space yet quite a hole at center. I like the mindset but boy, they really need to hit a center home run in return. I think a Larkin would take younger players yet those three should return something, Question is who? Does Toronto want to do anything? Do we want any of them?


Big decisions

 

[Off Sides]

sell high on Buch, Strome, Zib

I've come around to liking that idea more and more.

Extending Buch at his age to a somewhat long term deal I would be pretty comfortable with, yet they have wings coming up.

Zbad I am worried that if they go over like 4 years, every year beyond that is going to be terrible.

Strome, I just don't like his game.

If they can parley them all into two legit, 2 way top 6 centers who are young enough to develop with the young wings, I'd like to see that sort of thing. If Eichel did not have the injury, cap hit, I think he would fit, yet he does have those things.

 

[bernmeister]

I've come around to liking that idea more and more.

Extending Buch at his age to a somewhat long term deal I would be pretty comfortable with, yet they have wings coming up.

Zbad I am worried that if they go over like 4 years, every year beyond that is going to be terrible.

Strome, I just don't like his game.

If they can parley them all into two legit, 2 way top 6 centers who are young enough to develop with the young wings, I'd like to see that sort of thing. If Eichel did not have the injury, cap hit, I think he would fit, yet he does have those things.

so maybe bern is not quite so crazy?

 

[bernmeister]

great post. Moving those three would open up a lot of space yet quite a hole at center. I like the mindset but boy, they really need to hit a center home run in return. I think a Larkin would take younger players yet those three should return something, Question is who? Does Toronto want to do anything? Do we want any of them?


Big decisions

I don't want to go extensively into that now b'c
I'm busy atm
and
topic is re: Eichel, so extended comment could be construed as hijack of thread.

However, as and for a brief incidental comment
I believe a solid case can be made on paper for
selling Matthews to the right partner for the right return
and
that NYR can be that partner for Zib++.

I will add I don't think Leafs WANT to move AM, but
he is only under contract for 3 more seasons.
He may want out to highest bidder/cup contender/AZ home w/'yotes

If Rangers can repurpose enough strategic assets to slightly overpay for Matthews in a way that is not Leafs preference but is still too profitable to turn down, giving TOR adequate immediate help plus better structural roster + a future or 2, that could be a ticket.

Rangers then ride Matthews for 2 years and if he extends here great, if not, we deal him a year early to AZ and still recover a chunk of what we paid to get him.

win win

 

[Zynbanejad]

Pay less for Dylan Larkin.

 

[LokiDog]

This is like me making a thread asking y’all if I need dessert. I know I don’t, but I want it, and you guys convincing me that maybe I do need it makes me feel better about wanting it even though I know it’s a bad idea.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

This is like me making a thread asking y’all if I need dessert. I know I don’t, but I want it, and you guys convincing me that maybe I do need it makes me feel better about wanting it even though I know it’s a bad idea.

how about if we just split one?

 

[Cag29]

No Eichel.

 

[Trxjw]

If the injury is a non-issue, Eichel will likely solidify himself as a top-5 center in the NHL with a new team. He's an elite offensive player.

That being said, we have an elite winger, elite defensemen, and two other wingers who could easily be in the top-10 at their position in a couple of years. Do you need an elite offensive center with those guys in the fold? I'd argue that you don't. What you do need is the right mix of players down the middle who can compliment those elite wingers.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

If you don't go and get Eichel, you cannot get rid of Zibanejad. Took us 20+ years to find a 1C. If you don't want to go long term on Z, you have to get Eichel. Larkin isn't good enough. Barkov would be sweet but thats highly unlikely.

 

[LetsGoRangers2021]

The guy literally has a broken neck. Wtf.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The guy literally has a broken neck. Wtf.

oh shit RIP Jack

 

[Edge]

If the injury is a non-issue, Eichel will likely solidify himself as a top-5 center in the NHL with a new team. He's an elite offensive player.

That being said, we have an elite winger, elite defensemen, and two other wingers who could easily be in the top-10 at their position in a couple of years. Do you need an elite offensive center with those guys in the fold? I'd argue that you don't. What you do need is the right mix of players down the middle who can compliment those elite wingers.

I'm in the same boat in the sense that I think we'd be fine with a capable first line center, but not necessarily an elite one.

A big part of what we need to find it the right combinations that compliment each other.

 

[bernmeister]

Pay less for Dylan Larkin.

would love that reasonable alternative, but my understanding is DL is a favorite son, and not available.

If you don't go and get Eichel, you cannot get rid of Zibanejad. Took us 20+ years to find a 1C. If you don't want to go long term on Z, you have to get Eichel. Larkin isn't good enough. Barkov would be sweet but thats highly unlikely.

this is one error of win now
you are ignoring reality
time waits for no man
If Zib took 2-3 yr extension after his current bargain deal expires, sure!

but we can't assume that.
It is better to sell high, bank cap space and assets, and not be concerned about a guy a guy in his mid 30s who could be a prob if he declines overnight, which has happened.

Age 32 and up, 1 yr deals only, if any
G possible exception

 

[Luger]

One thing to remember is that big names keep value better. Nash brought back Lindgren, Miller, Strome. What would Anisimov and Dubi get us at the same time? Gaborik brought back young Brass, who later brought back young Zibanijad.

A 30 year old Eichel will bring back more than a 30 year old Butch.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

One thing to remember is that big names keep value better. Nash brought back Lindgren, Miller, Strome. What would Anisimov and Dubi get us at the same time? Gaborik brought back young Brass, who later brought back young Zibanijad.

A 30 year old Eichel will bring back more than a 30 year old Butch.

good point

 

[Off Sides]

so maybe bern is not quite so crazy?

Everyone has their moments of both sanity and crazy.

I've never been a fan of signing/extending players past age 32-33. Some will call that an arbitrary age, and it is to a point, yet it's the age where pretty much every expensive Ranger player (Drury too) has started to decline if not a little earlier, other than Jagr. Even if it's not just age, instead a build up of injuries.

 

[Fansince1992]

Best thing for Sabres, Rangers, and Eichel is for Eichel to have surgery, sit out most of the year, see his production upon his return, and if he's still a point per game player, then we trade for him. This way Sabres get the haul they want, Rangers get the healthy player they want, and Eichel is happy being out of Buffalo

 

[huerter]

Best thing for Sabres, Rangers, and Eichel is for Eichel to have surgery, sit out most of the year, see his production upon his return, and if he's still a point per game player, then we trade for him. This way Sabres get the haul they want, Rangers get the healthy player they want, and Eichel is happy being out of Buffalo

Fire any and every GM to the sun if they care about points per game in a short sample size.

 

[sbjnyc]

Best thing for Sabres, Rangers, and Eichel is for Eichel to have surgery, sit out most of the year, see his production upon his return, and if he's still a point per game player, then we trade for him. This way Sabres get the haul they want, Rangers get the healthy player they want, and Eichel is happy being out of Buffalo

If Sabres are trading Eichel it'll be before his NMC kicks in.

 

[ElLeetch]

so maybe bern is not quite so crazy?

The person talking about themselves in the 3rd person is asking if he is crazy.