Around the NHL — Episode XLXVI

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
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Matthews not faring much better than Yashin against Corson.

They seem pretty damned similar to me. Just guys who wanted the payday and didn't really care outside of that.

Put up points while its easy, boatloads of skill . . . no real drive or passion when the games get tough.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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They seem pretty damned similar to me. Just guys who wanted the payday and didn't really care outside of that.

Put up points while its easy, boatloads of skill . . . no real drive or passion when the games get tough.

To be fair to Yashin, we were not a particularly deep offensive team for most of his time here, so the strategy was to smother him.
 
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aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
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I feel like Marner may actually want to be traded, there's just way too much media pressure in Toronto, and he can't find his groove at all in the playoffs. A fresh start might do him well.
Marner will never have a groove in the playoffs because the oppossition target him specifically & he isn't tough enough mentally or physically to deal with the abuse. Toronto has also done a shit job of protecting their stars & like JM with Yashin want him to play through it which like Marner he could not. Marner is a regular season player while Marchand is proving he is a playoff warrior.
Ya but Gryba gave us the infamous player 61 quote 😁


Could you imagine what Matthews would be like if he was a playoff warrior
Yes, Mathews would be awsome if he was a playoff warrior but it's obvious he is more like Yashin. Brady on the other hand we all know will be a playoff warrior & with the additions of Ostapchuk & Kleven to this roster should improve their size & toughness. They just need one or two more big tough players who can play especially in the bottom six & one on defence.
 
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HSF

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Sep 3, 2008
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Matthews is a gamer. Marner was pathetic...hes either too small to be a factor inside or he is too scared

Leafs have a chance to open things up a bit by trading Marner and Tavares taking a discount after the next season.

The Marner trade is going to be bad for them though if their goal is to clear cap
 
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lang006

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Jan 2, 2020
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Matthews is a gamer. Marner was pathetic...hes either too small to be a factor inside or he is too scared

Leafs have a chance to open things up a bit by trading Marner and Tavares taking a discount after the next season.

The Marner trade is going to be bad for them though if their goal is to clear cap
Marner is/was also recovering from an ankle sprain down the stretch (or so I've been told by Leaf fans)... Might be impacting his ability level somewhat these playoffs. (i.e. like the Batherson high ankle sprain a couple years back that seemed to make him play tentatively a good full year post incident)

But that all said, I don't disagree that the drive with Marner seems to perhaps also be an issue and just amplifies once playoffs roll around and the going gets tougher.

Then finally, what is really up with Nylander? Last couple Leaf playoff appearances he might've been their most consistent performer. The other night post-game he seemed in a joking, nonchalant, carefree mood and most certainly not what you'd expect after another rough defeat second straight home ice loss and up against elimination once again.
 

BankStreetParade

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Jan 22, 2013
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Matthews is a gamer. Marner was pathetic...hes either too small to be a factor inside or he is too scared

Leafs have a chance to open things up a bit by trading Marner and Tavares taking a discount after the next season.

The Marner trade is going to be bad for them though if their goal is to clear cap
Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander all have NMCs. They're not leaving if they don't want to and, even if one of them would leave, they're not going to get a great return if they hand-pick their destination.
 

frightenedinmatenum2

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I feel like Marner may actually want to be traded, there's just way too much media pressure in Toronto, and he can't find his groove at all in the playoffs. A fresh start might do him well.

If Toronto does not want to re-sign him, I could see him being open to a trade and sign where another team gives him franchise player money. He was apparently willing to sign an offer sheet with Columbus, but he didn't want to go full term. They wanted full term if they were going to give up four first round picks.

“I think what happened was, if Columbus was going to do it, it had to be for seven years. And I think what I heard Marner was looking for, or his side was looking for, was less term than that,” Friedman said. “But I had multiple people telling me that they thought if anybody was going to do it, it was going to be Columbus.” - Friedman

With that said, Marner holds all the cards. If he wants to stay in Toronto long-term, he could manufacture that by refusing to waive his NMC. Even with all the talk about Marner being a dud in the playoffs, they aren't going to let him sign for nothing. I guess my other post was framed with the assumption that if the core doesn't want to move, Nylander is the odd man out because he doesn't have trade protection until July 1st.

If I am Salt Lake City, I would make a push for Nylander or Marner. Adding a superstar who can put up 100+ points would be a massive way to help market a new team. They are loaded with cap space and assets, they also have a few solid roster players with term at good cap hits that might appeal to the Leafs. If the Leafs have any sense, they ask for Lawson Crouse back as part of any deal. They need someone like him.

Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander all have NMCs. They're not leaving if they don't want to and, even if one of them would leave, they're not going to get a great return if they hand-pick their destination.

Nylander's NMC does not kick in until July 1st.

Sometimes when a superstar signs a big extension with a NMC, they will require the team to redact their current contract to add a NMC so that they cannot be flipped with term (see Carey Price as an example). Nylander could not do that because the current year he is on is an RFA year, so he is not allowed trade protection.

It would be considered scummy by players, but they could trade Nylander anytime prior to July 1st. I don't think it would be a fair thing to do because they gave him a NMC and can only trade him on a technicality before July 1st. It would be very cut throat.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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Nylander's NMC does not kick in until July 1st.

Sometimes when a superstar signs a big extension with a NMC, they will require the team to redact their current contract to add a NMC so that they cannot be flipped with term (see Carey Price as an example). Nylander could not do that because the current year he is on is an RFA year, so he is not allowed trade protection.

It would be considered scummy by players, but they could trade Nylander anytime prior to July 1st. I don't think it would be a fair thing to do because they gave him a NMC and can only trade him on a technicality before July 1st. It would be very cut throat.

Cap Friendly has him with a NMC right now. The new contract updated the existing NTC.

1714408409182.png
 

HSF

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Sep 3, 2008
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Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander all have NMCs. They're not leaving if they don't want to and, even if one of them would leave, they're not going to get a great return if they hand-pick their destination.
I think Marner will go if the team asks. The return won't be good though. I suspect it will be hard to trade him without taking back some salary which doesn't help Toronto. UNless its Chicago or something

Marner is/was also recovering from an ankle sprain down the stretch (or so I've been told by Leaf fans)... Might be impacting his ability level somewhat these playoffs. (i.e. like the Batherson high ankle sprain a couple years back that seemed to make him play tentatively a good full year post incident)

But that all said, I don't disagree that the drive with Marner seems to perhaps also be an issue and just amplifies once playoffs roll around and the going gets tougher.

Then finally, what is really up with Nylander? Last couple Leaf playoff appearances he might've been their most consistent performer. The other night post-game he seemed in a joking, nonchalant, carefree mood and most certainly not what you'd expect after another rough defeat second straight home ice loss and up against elimination once again.
Nylander's been injured and came back and looked like a guy who has been out.

He is usually pretty solid in the post season. I think his attitude is actually perfect for a place like Toronto. If they trade him they made the wrong move
 

HSF

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Sep 3, 2008
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Marner will never have a groove in the playoffs because the oppossition target him specifically & he isn't tough enough mentally or physically to deal with the abuse. Toronto has also done a shit job of protecting their stars & like JM with Yashin want him to play through it which like Marner he could not. Marner is a regular season player while Marchand is proving he is a playoff warrior.

Yes, Mathews would be awsome if he was a playoff warrior but it's obvious he is more like Yashin. Brady on the other hand we all know will be a playoff warrior & with the additions of Ostapchuk & Kleven to this roster should improve their size & toughness. They just need one or two more big tough players who can play especially in the bottom six & one on defence.
If Kleven and Ostapchuk are our answer for being tougher we are coookkedddd
 

Burrowsaurus

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Mar 20, 2013
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Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander all have NMCs. They're not leaving if they don't want to and, even if one of them would leave, they're not going to get a great return if they hand-pick their destination.
Marner will be the one to leave. Not sure how many more years Tavares has.

You can move marner not sure who is goi by to take him tho. Leafs will likely have to take back a contract they don’t want to give up tho
 

frightenedinmatenum2

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Sep 30, 2023
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I think Marner will go if the team asks. The return won't be good though. I suspect it will be hard to trade him without taking back some salary which doesn't help Toronto. UNless its Chicago or something


Nylander's been injured and came back and looked like a guy who has been out.

He is usually pretty solid in the post season. I think his attitude is actually perfect for a place like Toronto. If they trade him they made the wrong move

I think that teams would line up for Marner.

Say what you want about his failure to show up in the playoffs, teams are still going to give him the benefit of the doubt because on paper he is a franchise forward. It's not often teams get a chance to add a 100+ points Selke candidate.

There might have to be more of a hockey trade component because his cap hit is high, but I don't think it would be a dynamic where the Leafs have to retain or take back a bad contract.

They will not get full value because he has a NMC, and teams will want an extension to give up big assets.

They need to do something ballsy like the Raptors did. Not that I would want to see that. I'd prefer them to continue making the same mistake.
 
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PlayOn

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Jun 22, 2010
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I think that teams would line up for Marner.

Say what you want about his failure to show up in the playoffs, teams are still going to give him the benefit of the doubt because on paper he is a franchise forward. It's not often teams get a chance to add a 100+ points Selke candidate.

There might have to be more of a hockey trade component because his cap hit is high, but I don't think it would be a dynamic where the Leafs have to retain or take back a bad contract.

They will not get full value because he has a NMC, and teams will want an extension to give up big assets.

They need to do something ballsy like the Raptors did. Not that I would want to see that. I'd prefer them to continue making the same mistake.
If he has the standard list of desired destinations like Tampa, Florida, Vegas, NYR or whatever else, gonna be tough for Toronto to get much imo.

You’re working with a handful of teams, none of whom have cap space. Making the money align for 11 million is tough and teams aren’t sending you what they feel are critical pieces.

If he’s open to like 10 teams or so, a bit of a different story.

Not sure they have a choice but to move on at this point though.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

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Oct 16, 2006
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I think that teams would line up for Marner.

Say what you want about his failure to show up in the playoffs, teams are still going to give him the benefit of the doubt because on paper he is a franchise forward. It's not often teams get a chance to add a 100+ points Selke candidate.

There might have to be more of a hockey trade component because his cap hit is high, but I don't think it would be a dynamic where the Leafs have to retain or take back a bad contract.

They will not get full value because he has a NMC, and teams will want an extension to give up big assets.

They need to do something ballsy like the Raptors did. Not that I would want to see that. I'd prefer them to continue making the same mistake.
I'm sure a lot of teams understand it's also a product of the situation. He could just as easily land somewhere else and thrive in the playoffs. It's hard to definitively say one guy is a choker when the whole team collapses in the same fashion year after year after year. Lots of teams would be after him imo.
 
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HSF

Registered User
Sep 3, 2008
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I think that teams would line up for Marner.

Say what you want about his failure to show up in the playoffs, teams are still going to give him the benefit of the doubt because on paper he is a franchise forward. It's not often teams get a chance to add a 100+ points Selke candidate.

There might have to be more of a hockey trade component because his cap hit is high, but I don't think it would be a dynamic where the Leafs have to retain or take back a bad contract.

They will not get full value because he has a NMC, and teams will want an extension to give up big assets.

They need to do something ballsy like the Raptors did. Not that I would want to see that. I'd prefer them to continue making the same mistake.
Yes teams will want him the problem being his cap hit and his NMC. He probably would want to go to a decent team and Toronto probably rather trade him to a poor team who can take his cap hit without sending much back

Additionally any team that takes him would want a contract extension in place meaning he would have to want to sign there longterm

The complexity of the deal is what makes me think toronto will have a poor return
 

Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
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If he has the standard list of desired destinations like Tampa, Florida, Vegas, NYR or whatever else, gonna be tough for Toronto to get much imo.

You’re working with a handful of teams, none of whom have cap space. Making the money align for 11 million is tough and teams aren’t sending you what they feel are critical pieces.

If he’s open to like 10 teams or so, a bit of a different story.

Not sure they have a choice but to move on at this point though.
Currently he has a list of 31 teams he can’t be traded to.
 

Hale The Villain

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Marner's NMC is a problem for the Leafs, as is the timing. Trading him after yet another playoff no-show won't help his value.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned though is his extremely front-loaded and bonus-heavy contract.

If the Leafs were to trade him after his bonus is paid, presumably on July 1st, the acquiring team would get Marner for 775k in real dollars owed for the remaining year on his contract.

That's worth a lot in value for teams that care about real money in vs. out.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,501
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Yukon
Marner's NMC is a problem for the Leafs, as is the timing. Trading him after yet another playoff no-show won't help his value.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned though is his extremely front-loaded and bonus-heavy contract.

If the Leafs were to trade him after his bonus is paid, presumably on July 1st, the acquiring team would get Marner for 775k in real dollars owed for the remaining year on his contract.

That's worth a lot in value for teams that care about real money in vs. out.
Oh man, Melnyk would have been running down the halls screaming at Dorion to prioritize this. He might fire him and make the trade himself. Whatever it takes.
 
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HSF

Registered User
Sep 3, 2008
26,093
7,620
Marner's NMC is a problem for the Leafs, as is the timing. Trading him after yet another playoff no-show won't help his value.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned though is his extremely front-loaded and bonus-heavy contract.

If the Leafs were to trade him after his bonus is paid, presumably on July 1st, the acquiring team would get Marner for 775k in real dollars owed for the remaining year on his contract.

That's worth a lot in value for teams that care about real money in vs. out.
If he had more term maybe... Any bad team that could take that cap would want an extension in place. If you are Marner why would you sign now unless its the exact money and term you want
 

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