OT: 2024 Washington Commanders off-season thread: change we can believe in!

[CapitalsCupReality]

I prefer not to be told to accept or support either version.

Agreed, he's just another fool. He shouldn't be sanctioned for his words, just mocked.

That’s the flip side of the free speech thing in this instance….we’re also free to ignore/not support fools.

 

[ynotcaps]

Commanders' Jayden Daniels lays out bold C.J. Stroud rookie season goal

On a recent podcast appearance, Commanders' rookie QB Jayden Daniels explains how he plans to one-up C.J. Stroud's rookie season.

clutchpoints.com

“That’s my boy,” Daniels said, “we’re competitive, I’d be lying if I say I didn’t want to do better than him his rookie year.”

“What he did, like you said, is unheard of,” Daniels said, “I’m not comparing myself to him, I mean just me being a competitor, us being from the same area, I want to outdo him. Just like he was a two-time Heisman Finalist, but he ain’t win one, so I won one. That’s my brother, that’s my dawg, what he did is unheard of but that’s just who he is, he’s a confident human being.”

He's competing with him, sure. But he does not say he's better than him. (And I think we know what we'd hear from some on this site if he didn't come out and say he wanted to outdo last year's OROY, who was also the second QB and the second OA pick.)

 

[Neil Racki]

Not really. Freedom of speech doesn’t equate to freedom from consequences for what you said. He has the right to say what he feels and other people have the right to call him a turd bucket. Saying his rhetoric is dangerous and shouldn’t be endorsed by the league is not being “unAmerican.”

I think the "unAmerican" argument can be made where we the public looks to punish the guy bc he gave a conservative religious speech at the invitation from a conservative religious group at a closed-to-public invite only ceremony.

Thats okay by me and Im progressive liberal whatever. I dont think he needs to be cut and if he is sponsored .. thats for his corporate sponsors to decide. Big fan of freedom of speech doesnt mean freedom from consequences but here, in such a closed setting ... let them have their hate rally.

Okay .. im wont poke this further.

"Live and let live ..." really hard to truly follow

 

[Roric]

Those new giants jerseys are horrible, make ours look amazing

 

[g00n]

I think the "unAmerican" argument can be made where we the public looks to punish the guy bc he gave a conservative religious speech at the invitation from a conservative religious group at a closed-to-public invite only ceremony.

Thats okay by me and Im progressive liberal whatever. I dont think he needs to be cut and if he is sponsored .. thats for his corporate sponsors to decide. Big fan of freedom of speech doesnt mean freedom from consequences but here, in such a closed setting ... let them have their hate rally.

Okay .. im wont poke this further.

"Live and let live ..." really hard to truly follow

The problem is there is a fundamental element of telling others how they should live based on shit they can't control behind a lot of the "conservative" speech. Whether it's your gender or the color of your skin, that's not the same as protection for voicing an opinion, which is elective and totally within our control.

This is why the "NO U" free speech argument fails. They're not identical situations. It's the difference between protecting human/civil rights and enforcing social or emotional intelligence.

As I said before, we don't have to examine these same old concepts every single time they're uttered. We know what they are. We can call them stupid without the need to justify it by now. And if people want to continue saying these kinds of things, when the world and the individual have both had ample opportunity to evolve beyond it, we can judge them based on that.

edit: and the audience isn't a get out of jail free card. Would we say the same thing if he was a Klan member dropping N-bombs at Klan rally? It's not illegal. It's protected speech. We should just ignore that? Not saying the Catholic church is the KKK but this idea that these things happen in a bubble doesn't hold up. They're his beliefs, and speaking before a crowd who agrees doesn't make them off limits or temporary. It just reveals them.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Deleted my posts. I’m not going to engage on this topic.

 

[Neil Racki]

Youth Washington Commanders Jayden Daniels Nike Burgundy 2024 NFL Draft First Round Pick Player Game Jersey

Let your kiddo represent their favorite team and player by grabbing them this Jayden Daniels 2024 NFL Draft First Round Pick Player Game Jersey from Nike. Complete with the Washington Commanders trademark colors and graphics they love, this jersey is the best way to show support for the...

www.nflshop.com

$89 for a youth small JD jersey
$59 for a toddler McLaurin jersey

f***ing A .. my 1 yr old might just get the hand me down youth Josh Norman jersey collecting dust

 

[twabby]

Harrison Butker?

More like...Harrison Butthole!

I'll be here all day folks

 

[bacchist]

This period after the draft and before pre-season is so boring we're even pretending to take something a kicker said seriously.

 

[tycoonheart]

People like Butker need to be called the F out. Worst thing we can say is he is allowed to voice his opinion. Nope. These folks need to be named and shamed. Have zero issues with people calling for him to be cut. There should be no room for "opinions" like that in this day and age.

 

[Holtbyisms]

These last couple pages have devolved into what's wrong with this country. I thought the JD vs Maye portion of this thread was insufferable, it's been one upped. Would love to get back on Washington football team discussion. Mods shouldn't entertain this.

 

[ynotcaps]

From WaPo on learnings from minicamp:

Protection​

Two criticisms of Kingsbury’s offense in Arizona: He didn’t marry run and pass concepts well, and his protection plans were simplistic. Kingsbury hired a few key coaches, seemingly to help address those concerns, and has been “really impressed” by Daniels’s advanced understanding of how to adjust the offensive line.
“A lot of guys coming into the league, [protection is] not an area that they majored in in college,” he said. “They don’t have a lot of time. It’s four hours per day. They have rules. But he’s really well-versed in the protections, and he works at it.”

Which is a little weird, because it makes it sound like his experience is a good thing.

 

[Jags]

Butker wants to change the world by repressing people's rights when they aren't living in alignment with his world views.

I definitely agree with your feelings on this guy 100%, but it's mischaracterizing things a bit saying that he's out to repress anyone's rights. He believes the world should live in his little closed-minded box, sure, but I didn't hear any suggestions or means of enforcing such a thing. But his most vocal opponents ARE out to repress HIS rights. Lots of chatter out there (probably mostly by the loudest idiots on the other side) about how he should be fired, deplatformed, canceled, and so on.

They want to change the world by repressing peoples' rights when they aren't living in alignment with their world views. There is definitely an attack on free speech happening around the world today, and some of that has resulted in actual policy in certain places.

I really hate what Butker said, but I hate even the suggestion of curtailing free speech far, far more.

Not gonna lie if those are his stats we will be hearing bust talk. JD better stop saying hes better then CJ Stroud who had one of the better rookie seasons for a QB

I think those stats are light. If he starts a full season, I think he tops 4K yards, and I think KK's offense and development will have him embracing the instincts that led to very few turnovers for him in the SEC. I think the only way he'd be sheltered throwing is if the running game really takes off, but even then they'd want balance, and to leverage the success of the running game by taking advantage of teams stacking the box to prevent it.

Anyway, I'm more hopeful. If he's the starter for 17 games, I think he could hit 4,000 yards with 20 TDs and 10 picks. I liked the projection of about 600 running yards and 5 TDs, as I don't want him running too much or in high-contact situations (let the RBs handle the goal line, don't push his tush).

Everybody is saying he has the legal right to say what he feels.

Maybe everybody here, but not everybody everybody. This is the exact kind of speech very large and active groups of people are looking to silence, and Butker is an extreme example. There are some conservative speakers getting run off campuses and similar venues that are nowhere near as extreme or provocative as Butker was. That's troubling. Diversity of thought on college campuses should be seen as crucially important, not something that needs to be stopped.

And the folks out there that believe that the people who disagree with them should be silenced and canceled isn't confined to college campuses either. And it's mind-boggling to me that it's the left that's behind the majority of it. The religious right used to have the market cornered on that idiocy, and now they're outnumbered on the left. Yikes, y'know?

His free speech rights are 100% intact and will remain so.

That's optimistic. A lot of people are looking at the policy that has emerged in other countries restricting free speech as a good thing. They want that here. Granted, it appears that most of them are in the "pretty young and very idealistic" phases of their development, but with that rhetoric being as widespread as it is today, they might not be disabused of those notions by the time their generation is really taking over.

I hope you're right. Maybe it's just a fad that will fade once people see that it goes too far, but there are times where it feels like it's picking up steam, not subsiding, in my opinion.

They're his beliefs, and speaking before a crowd who agrees doesn't make them off limits or temporary. It just reveals them.

Exactly, and this is why I'm for free speech the way it is. No yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater and all that, but I like that dumb and hateful people are free to speak their minds. Partly because that's what free speech is, but mostly because it helps us figure out who they are. I want to know exactly who the evil pricks in the world are, and letting them publicly self-identify makes it easy.

If someone you strongly disagree with comes to your town or campus to give a speech, you shouldn't be picketing outside. You should be inside, listening and taking notes, so you can learn what they actually believe, what they actually advocate for, and how they arrived at their conclusions. If you do that, most of the time you'll find a human being that's not all that different from you that just sees the world in a different way because their life experiences to date led them down a different road.

And yeah, there'll be a bunch of times where you're just right, and they ARE the buffoons you thought they were, but at least you heard them out and can now refute their ideas with better ones instead of the constant strawman nonsense that goes on now. Because no, not everyone that disagrees with you is a Nazi or "worse than Hitler." That's almost never true, and you saying the hyperbolic thing instead of the nuanced and true thing makes you look like the idiot instead.

But yeah, JD will absolutely better than what that guy said, and other on-topic, football-related insights.

 

[g00n]

If someone you strongly disagree with comes to your town or campus to give a speech, you shouldn't be picketing outside. You should be inside, listening and taking notes, so you can learn what they actually believe, what they actually advocate for, and how they arrived at their conclusions. If you do that, most of the time you'll find a human being that's not all that different from you that just sees the world in a different way because their life experiences to date led them down a different road.

And yeah, there'll be a bunch of times where you're just right, and they ARE the buffoons you thought they were, but at least you heard them out and can now refute their ideas with better ones instead of the constant strawman nonsense that goes on now. Because no, not everyone that disagrees with you is a Nazi or "worse than Hitler." That's almost never true, and you saying the hyperbolic thing instead of the nuanced and true thing makes you look like the idiot instead.

Nah dude, I don't need to waste time taking notes when clear-cut sexism and religious bigotry is involved. I've already sat through that class.

 

[Roric]

Youth Washington Commanders Jayden Daniels Nike Burgundy 2024 NFL Draft First Round Pick Player Game Jersey

Let your kiddo represent their favorite team and player by grabbing them this Jayden Daniels 2024 NFL Draft First Round Pick Player Game Jersey from Nike. Complete with the Washington Commanders trademark colors and graphics they love, this jersey is the best way to show support for the...

www.nflshop.com

$89 for a youth small JD jersey
$59 for a toddler McLaurin jersey

f***ing A .. my 1 yr old might just get the hand me down youth Josh Norman jersey collecting dust

Man everyone gonna have a JD jersey, get him/her a mccaffrey one before he blows up

 

[Jags]

Nah dude, I don't need to waste time taking notes when clear-cut sexism and religious bigotry is involved. I've already sat through that class.

Yeah, of course specifically with Butker that's obvious. He's just a dummy. I was more talking about the types of people generally getting run off campuses and such that are there to speak about or debate actual issues and differing ideologies. A lot of those people are benign; they just have worldviews that are different. This general idea now that all conservatives are evil has gone overboard in recent years, for example.

There are serious issues that need real discussion, and college students need to see it and learn how it should be done. Listening is a big part of that, even when you're pretty sure you're going to hear things you don't agree with. Demonizing every dissenting opinion has become commonplace, and that has to stop.

Free speech and some of the more hot-button social issues of today raise big questions that will require serious, pragmatic discourse that just isn't happening in college anymore and is becoming far less common in society in general and, alarmingly, in our government.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Everybody is saying he has the legal right to say what he feels. Some are saying that people who are offended should just accept it, or bizarrely, they should debate the merits of his speech, as if anyone on either side is going to change their entire worldview with such an exercise.

The only thing truly being stifled here is the idea that people who disagree with him should still support him, vs voicing their displeasure in ways such as not buying products he endorses, or being happy at the prospect of him losing sponsors for his words.

People also love to throw out the first amendment free speech clause as if it wasn't specifically included for the purpose of being able to redress grievances against the government. Nowhere in the founders thought process was "people should have the right to incite violence or hatred" or, you know, say whatever the eff they want any time and any place they want. Freedom of speech isn't the same thing as everyone accepting any ridiculous things anyone says anywhere. Specifically, Congress has made no law preventing Butker from being an asshole. His free speech rights are 100% intact and will remain so. The general public is bound by no such restriction.

I haven’t seen the bolded. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, I prob skimmed it. As a lot of this seems to be a few ppl “pissing into the wind”, so I haven’t read every word of it.

 

[bacchist]

I definitely agree with your feelings on this guy 100%, but it's mischaracterizing things a bit saying that he's out to repress anyone's rights. He believes the world should live in his little closed-minded box, sure, but I didn't hear any suggestions or means of enforcing such a thing. But his most vocal opponents ARE out to repress HIS rights. Lots of chatter out there (probably mostly by the loudest idiots on the other side) about how he should be fired, deplatformed, canceled, and so on.

They want to change the world by repressing peoples' rights when they aren't living in alignment with their world views. There is definitely an attack on free speech happening around the world today, and some of that has resulted in actual policy in certain places.

I really hate what Butker said, but I hate even the suggestion of curtailing free speech far, far more.



I think those stats are light. If he starts a full season, I think he tops 4K yards, and I think KK's offense and development will have him embracing the instincts that led to very few turnovers for him in the SEC. I think the only way he'd be sheltered throwing is if the running game really takes off, but even then they'd want balance, and to leverage the success of the running game by taking advantage of teams stacking the box to prevent it.

Anyway, I'm more hopeful. If he's the starter for 17 games, I think he could hit 4,000 yards with 20 TDs and 10 picks. I liked the projection of about 600 running yards and 5 TDs, as I don't want him running too much or in high-contact situations (let the RBs handle the goal line, don't push his tush).



Maybe everybody here, but not everybody everybody. This is the exact kind of speech very large and active groups of people are looking to silence, and Butker is an extreme example. There are some conservative speakers getting run off campuses and similar venues that are nowhere near as extreme or provocative as Butker was. That's troubling. Diversity of thought on college campuses should be seen as crucially important, not something that needs to be stopped.

And the folks out there that believe that the people who disagree with them should be silenced and canceled isn't confined to college campuses either. And it's mind-boggling to me that it's the left that's behind the majority of it. The religious right used to have the market cornered on that idiocy, and now they're outnumbered on the left. Yikes, y'know?



That's optimistic. A lot of people are looking at the policy that has emerged in other countries restricting free speech as a good thing. They want that here. Granted, it appears that most of them are in the "pretty young and very idealistic" phases of their development, but with that rhetoric being as widespread as it is today, they might not be disabused of those notions by the time their generation is really taking over.

I hope you're right. Maybe it's just a fad that will fade once people see that it goes too far, but there are times where it feels like it's picking up steam, not subsiding, in my opinion.



Exactly, and this is why I'm for free speech the way it is. No yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater and all that, but I like that dumb and hateful people are free to speak their minds. Partly because that's what free speech is, but mostly because it helps us figure out who they are. I want to know exactly who the evil pricks in the world are, and letting them publicly self-identify makes it easy.

If someone you strongly disagree with comes to your town or campus to give a speech, you shouldn't be picketing outside. You should be inside, listening and taking notes, so you can learn what they actually believe, what they actually advocate for, and how they arrived at their conclusions. If you do that, most of the time you'll find a human being that's not all that different from you that just sees the world in a different way because their life experiences to date led them down a different road.

And yeah, there'll be a bunch of times where you're just right, and they ARE the buffoons you thought they were, but at least you heard them out and can now refute their ideas with better ones instead of the constant strawman nonsense that goes on now. Because no, not everyone that disagrees with you is a Nazi or "worse than Hitler." That's almost never true, and you saying the hyperbolic thing instead of the nuanced and true thing makes you look like the idiot instead.

But yeah, JD will absolutely better than what that guy said, and other on-topic, football-related insights.

lol

 

[John Price]

These last couple pages have devolved into what's wrong with this country. I thought the JD vs Maye portion of this thread was insufferable, it's been one upped. Would love to get back on Washington football team discussion. Mods shouldn't entertain this.

It's not even related to the commanders lol. I just scroll by until I see something related to local teams.

regarding this team

Yeah the jd jersey is expensive and the official uniforms suck. I purchased a third party baseball one for 20 dollars on Amazon but if you have money yeah the link posted before about classic redskins jerseys is highly intriguing

the rebrand has been okay but damn the current uniforms suck

 

[Ridley Simon]

Ok ok ok

Are we done with this “being aghast at what a kicker said” portion of our football thread?

How much more legs does this need?

JD hitting 4K his rookie year would be…..something.

It's not even related to the commanders lol. I just scroll by until I see something related to local teams.

regarding this team

Yeah the jd jersey is expensive and the official uniforms suck. I purchased a third party baseball one for 20 dollars on Amazon but if you have money yeah the link posted before about classic redskins jerseys is highly intriguing

the rebrand has been okay but damn the current uniforms suck

The uniforms are horrid. I loathe them. Almost as much as a loathe the name.

 

[ynotcaps]

Yeah, I wasn't spending money on anything team-related while shithead was the owner. Now I'd be willing to, but whatever they're wearing isn't burgundy and gold, so no dollars until they get that fixed.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yep, I too refuse to buy a jersey until the branding is redone.

 

[RandyHolt]

Harrison Butker?

More like...Harrison Butthole!

I'll be here all day folks

Hairy Pair of Testicles Buttkiss?

Chiming in on hockey, and then rethinking it mid-sentence..

"A Woman's place is in Kitchen...er Ontairo?!"

I won't be here all day. In fact, I'll show myself out.

 

[Jags]

The uniforms are horrid. I loathe them. Almost as much as a loathe the name.

Definitely. There's something about this new trend of teams wearing the same color pants and socks... Makes it look like they're wearing tights. I liked the colors they wore occasionally with the spear helmets about 20 years ago...

And during the whole new name era I kept saying that I don't really care what the name is, but then they chose Commanders and I realized that, yes, I probably do care a little. I like Wolves or Red Wolves, but really anything along those lines -- simple, inoffensive name, easy to say, good logical nickname if necessary (Bucs, Pats, Fins, etc.), easy imagery for a mascot and branding. Also, think it through a little. You have to know people are going to say Commies, dipshit.

So Wolves works. A home crowd howling could be cool, simple mascot... But some of the other frontrunner names from a couple years ago were also fine, as I recall. Hell, a few cities used to have multiple teams use the same name, including NFL teams (Cards, Pirates, Giants). So DC could do that for all I care (I do like Caps better than Nats, no Wiz).

Anyway, I'm not super picky about it and am in no rush. They should take their time and get it right.

 

[ynotcaps]

OK, gonna make a bunch of half-assed suppositions and make some connections that probably don't exist.

That disclaimer out of the way, let's revisit DQ's W-feathered shirt.

"W" happens to be the first letter of "warriors," and our Native American mascot was envisaged as a warrior.

There was so much fervor and gnashing that I honestly can't remember where the sense of the argument ended as to whether using any Native American imagery/relations was gone forever or not.

BUT, if the window is still open at all, I think "Warriors" would enable us to bring back some elements (like the spear, the feathers) while doing so in a way that would reflect respect rather than a derogatory reference.

(Within that context, I think the depiction on our traditional helmets was very dignified, but too much water may have already passed under that bridge.)

(And if we did do "Warriors, I'd want them to change the font of that stupid W.)