What wrong with "Mitch'in" Marner?

[Tuggy]

I find it crazy that Matthews get a pass but Marner doesn’t. Is it because regular season goals or because Marner has a “please punch me” kind of face? As players, he actually shows up more than Austen in the playoffs which isn’t saying much but still, not sure why both of these guys arent laughed out of town.

Matthews is the golden boy in Toronto.

 

[Craig Button]

Considering he had a high ankle sprain which takes a couple of months to recover. It makes sense to avoid contact.

Judging by his skating he’s still suffering from the ankle injury

I wouldn’t risk further injury and ruin an ankle and career for a Team with a horrible goaltender and crappy defence.

 

[Bileur]

Considering he had a high ankle sprain which takes a couple of months to recover. It makes sense to avoid contact.

Judging by his skating he’s still suffering from the ankle injury

I wouldn’t risk further injury and ruin an ankle and career for a Team with a horrible goaltender and crappy defence.

You’re definitely right that high ankle sprains are serious injuries that often take a full year to fully recover from.

That said, Marner’s aversion to contact predated his sprain. Sure it probably makes it worse, but this has been a problem for a long time.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Marner is a fantastic player.

I don't think he is the type of player to ever hoist a team on his back. That's not really a knock against him necessarily, but he's paid like he is.

The Leafs problems run deeper.

I think this team needs to be stripped down to the studs and completely renovated. This structure doesn't work and it hasn't worked. The culture is non-existent.

Of course I thought that last year and here we are - in a worse place with yet another monster contract on the books.

I think it starts at the top with Shanahan and works its way down with a vengeance.

The problem with your statement I bolded is in a hard cap environment - EVERY player is evaulated based on their contribution when in matters compared to their cap hit. Marner's cap hit is essentially a top 10 player in the league, and his production falls by 30+% when the games really matter.

Marner has the ability to be a fantastic player based on his ability to play a 2 way game if he wasn't paid like a top 10 player in the league. To make this happen though - he has to engage physically which hasn't in the past. Currently Marner seems to be more of a complimentary player who bears the burden of his agent absolutely corn-holing Dubas in the last contract negotiation.

 

[Buck Naked]

Marner's cap hit is essentially a top 10 player in the league, and his production falls by 30+% when the games really matter.

He's not the only one though, yet for some reason he's always the one carrying the blame. Matthews sees the exact same drop. Like posted before, he's scoreless in over 50% of the games he's played in the playoffs. Crazy that he's not the one with multiple threads.

Matthews is a 35 goal, 71 point scorer per 82 games in the playoffs.

 

[tfwnogf]

he's too weak mentally, either needs to be shipped to a team with a good system in place to help toughen him up, or surround him with big bodies so he can play his finesse style game without having to do any heavy lifting. But as it stands, he is a product of toronto's terrible coach and team culture allowing him and the big 4 the keys to the castle.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

The whole big 4 are problems to varying degrees. When you’re paid that kind of money you are expected to be a difference maker and none of them have.
Marner’s just the lighting rod right now but Matthews, Tavares and even Nylander have all out performed other cores for years now.
Change has to start somewhere and trading Marner seems like the logical choice but that certainly won’t fix what’s ailing this group.

 

[DFC]

The whole big 4 are problems to varying degrees. When you’re paid that kind of money you are expected to be a difference maker and none of them have.
Marner’s just the lighting rod right now but Matthews, Tavares and even Nylander have all out performed other cores for years now.
Change has to start somewhere and trading Marner seems like the logical choice but that certainly won’t fix what’s ailing this group.

I think in the playoffs, Marner has more consistently disappointed than the rest. I would say, overall, Nylander has been the closest to the guy who "gets it." In both series vs. Tb, he was the scariest Leaf.

Marner just cant seem to adapt to playing a style where he doesnt take the bait to stay on the perimeter.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I think in the playoffs, Marner has more consistently disappointed than the rest. I would say, overall, Nylander has been the closest to the guy who "gets it." In both series vs. Tb, he was the scariest Leaf.

I think that’s part of it. But the other part is that Matthews needs someone to be the engine for him. He’s not like his other competitors who can take over games and drive play on their own. He’s not really a typical center at all.

 

[DamonDRW]

Offense always starts with defence. The latter is non-existent in Toronto. It is not on Marner, Matthews or Nylander. It is on the lack of personnel due to their huge contracts. Eventually, it is GM to blame for all this.

 

[Strangle]

This guy could be the second coming of Doug gilmour

He could be even better, but he’s scared of physicality

 

[winnipegger]

His ankle seemed fine on his dipsy doodle beautiful glide on his knees goal. I think the issue is he's an entitled little shit who only wants to play when he can do stuff like that.

 

[viper0220]

I think that’s part of it. But the other part is that Matthews needs someone to be the engine for him. He’s not like his other competitors who can take over games and drive play on their own. He’s not really a typical center at all.

I thought I was the only one that thought this, I think Matthews should be a winger. He would thrive in that situation.

 

[NVious]

I think that’s part of it. But the other part is that Matthews needs someone to be the engine for him. He’s not like his other competitors who can take over games and drive play on their own. He’s not really a typical center at all.

They are just head cases, Matthews literally has the GOAT g/60 in the season at 2gp/60 and yet in the playoffs he drops down to 1.18 behind guys like Hertl, Hyman and Pavelski. Marner goes from 12th in p/60 to 35th and 102g/60 to 197th g/60.

It's not a skill issue because you see flashes of it, they just can't do it consistently. There's no other explanation other than it being mental, even the PP sucks in the playoffs which makes no sense because they should at least still be able to score on a 5 on 4, but they can't.

 

[Masterplan]

This guy could be the second coming of Doug gilmour

He could be even better, but he’s scared of physicality

Is he really scared though or is a 26 year old that has like $50M+ in the bank and doesn't want CTE or some other physical disability when he retires. I'd play it the same way if my boss was foolish enough to give me money up front in my career.

 

[Chaos2k7]

Even if they aren't scoring shouldn't AM and MM be providing Selke level defense to contribute that way?

I mean those are the regular season talking points we hear about each and every season by Leafs fans. Who is taking the Marchand and Pasta matchup if not your best guys?

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

He's not the only one though, yet for some reason he's always the one carrying the blame. Matthews sees the exact same drop. Like posted before, he's scoreless in over 50% of the games he's played in the playoffs. Crazy that he's not the one with multiple threads.

Matthews is a 35 goal, 71 point scorer per 82 games in the playoffs.

Agree on Marner isn't the ONLY issue, but he's a major issue IMO in the Leaf's struggles. In the play-off's, there is less time and space, and players need to adapt. Not sure if the current struggles are injury related - but I've always felt that MM tends to "play scared" come play-off time.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

This guy could be the second coming of Doug gilmour

He could be even better, but he’s scared of physicality

I do think that this is "overly-simplified". There is a "more physical/higher compete level" comparison for every player - but that character is what made the all-time greats we remember as special. 99% of players don't that in them. Even if you're incredibly skilled, and physically gifted you don't necessarily have that apex predator mentality that the all-time greats possessed.

 

[Buck Naked]

Agree on Marner isn't the ONLY issue, but he's a major issue IMO in the Leaf's struggles. In the play-off's, there is less time and space, and players need to adapt. Not sure if the current struggles are injury related - but I've always felt that MM tends to "play scared" come play-off time.

Of course he is a major issue. People make it sound like he's the major issue though, when the problem is shared with all his teammates. Matthews is a much better player, yet disappears in the playoffs and is not taking any critique for it, just because he's Matthews. Marner, however. As soon as the playoffs comes around, he's run out of town. Just a terrible fanbase from start to finish.

 

[LarKing]

Of course he is a major issue. People make it sound like he's the major issue though, when the problem is shared with all his teammates. Matthews is a much better player, yet disappears in the playoffs and is not taking any critique for it, just because he's Matthews. Marner, however. As soon as the playoffs comes around, he's run out of town. Just a terrible fanbase from start to finish.

Matthews is pretty routinely criticized for anything including his lack of playoff success/production. Marner is getting the heat right now, but Matthews will get plenty too if they lose.

 

[Gilmour1996]

He's built like a 16 year old boy with no effort to get bigger and stronger so plays scared when playing against men.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

I think Marner needs a very, very fresh start far from the limelight. He would do wonders in a quiet market. Elite talent but he is not built for pressure.

 

[Chaos2k7]

I think Marner needs a very, very fresh start far from the limelight. He would do wonders in a quiet market. Elite talent but he is not built for pressure.

I think if he was on a line with say Bennett and Tkachuk you could hide him a bit more and open space.

Not that I would want him, but those types of guys would work with him in the postseason IMO.

Problem is all of AM, WN, JT, and MM would need that type of setup.

 

[GMR]

Maybe he’s in love.

 

[AvroArrow]

When will people get sick of making excuses for a bunch of highly paid underperforming players? Marner and Matthews are 26 years old with over 500 games played. They aren't clutch players when the team needs them to be.

How many games did Ovechkin play until he won his cup ?