Great8Cam
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2008
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They can’t play dump and chase. they’re not built for that. Possession hockey will work.
Exactly! But their coach didn’t want to do it and their D is reinforcing that belief by not being able to spring the forwards with accurate passes.They can’t play dump and chase. they’re not built for that. Possession hockey will work.
Q ran it better than Bruno, but Q is gone and Bruno isn't ready to be a HC. In both 21 and 22 though, the theme was the same. Tampa outdefended us, outsmarted us, and outgrinded us. That's what Maurice is trying to correct. He's not perfect, but I agree with the direction he's going in.Their hockey in 2022 playoffs didn't look like "Florida hockey" as opposed to 2021 playoffs.
They're not gonna win the Cup playing firewagon hockey. They're not really built for that either. We lost some offensive weapons, and it may take us years to regain that same forward depth.They can’t play dump and chase. they’re not built for that. Possession hockey will work.
They should pay WAY more attention to really spending time practicing PP and PK. Tampa owes almost 50% of its playoffs success on those.Q ran it better than Bruno, but Q is gone and Bruno isn't ready to be a HC. In both 21 and 22 though, the theme was the same. Tampa outdefended us, outsmarted us, and outgrinded us. That's what Maurice is trying to correct. He's not perfect, but I agree with the direction he's going in.
They're not gonna win the Cup playing firewagon hockey. They're not really built for that either. We lost some offensive weapons, and it may take us years to regain that same forward depth.
I agree that our special teams are insufficient.They should pay WAY more attention to really spending time practicing PP and PK. Tampa owes almost 50% of its playoffs success on those.
I don't see how, with how Bob played in the playoffs, that last years team doesn't make the finals with him behind the bench.The Q fiasco probably set this organization back more than any recent roster move by a large margin it appears.
We are not playing the right way and we haven’t played the right way since the mustache was behind the bench.
I never said any of this.They are close to the pinnacle. They have several years to figure it out, make tweaks, let a couple prospects mature. I don't know why it sounds like you just assume failure. You really want to rebuild. Let's say they rebuild tomorrow. You can't trade Barkov. That alone keeps them out of the bottom of the basement. So you are hoping for very slim odds to win the lottery. Some other guys you probably can't even sell off for varying reasons. They are too good to get a Bedard, Fantilli, Michkov, Kiviharju, Misa. And even if they were, tanking doesn't work like it did even 10 years ago. Look at Arizona, they got screwed out of a top 2 pick, and now they are slightly better this season and will probably also miss out on Bedard, Fantilli, and Michkov. Their grand masterplan of being godawful and trying to nab the #1 pick for multiple years has crashed and burned. They have several great prospects, but their future outlook doesn't look that great honestly. They look like they might be the second coming of the 00's Panthers. Bad but not bad enough to get top 2 picks. I don't see a future powerhouse there. Unless they trade Chychrun and somehow plummet to the very bottom for the next couple years.
We are near the top now. So it makes no sense to tear it down. If we rebuild tomorrow, it might take us more than 5 years to get back to this point. And no guarantee of continued advancement. We've also depleted our draft picks for the next few years.
Where did I say Lundell and Knight are moving the needle? I said if we rebuild, we probably keep them as they will still be young-ish and in their primes. And you're still gonna need a goalie and a top 6 two-way center.
My friend, this team is closer to a Cup than if they blow it up and wait 5-7 to get respectable again. If like you say they don't get top 2 picks and yet still manage to build a solid team several years later with shrewd moves, there's still.no guarantee they'll be as good as they are now.I never said any of this.
And most of the things you said and acredited to what I want, is nothing like what I'm saying. This is the problem. A lot of the time, people think "tank" and "top 5 picks", boom, rebuild. It's a lot more details that go into a team build than that. And that's mostly what I'm talking about, the details outside of just drafting. And the one I was focusing on for this discussion was the fact that teams that make a good plan and stick to it, are the teams that separate themselves from the pack. They stay patient, and don't deviate from the plan.
The Panthers have gone in several different directions. This team is not close to a cup, Names on the back of the jerseys do not win cups. And even with that, I'm not overly impressed with this team like that. At least as far as winning a cup.
It's a lot more to winning a cup than what bodies you can bring in, and what rosters you have. That's the point I'm trying to make. It's a process, and the Panthers' process has not been cup worthy. And what I meant by Lundell and Knight is they're not moving the needle as far as winning the cup. Doesn't matter if they're young or not, stay or go.
I truly hate to admit it but you’re spot on.The team of last year transpired so much joy for the game, so much coolness and swagger to just go out and play, and all that through the whole Q story...
This feeling is completely gone. They seem like a disgruntled helpless sorry-for-themselves group right now. Q taught this team to never lose the fun for the game, and Bruno managed to ndot interfere with that and to just let them play. To me it seems that PoMo's presence messed that up, and the team indeed has to find a new identity again. I doubt that this identity fits to our group of players.
no guarantee they'll be as good as they are now.
It's not about the roster, it's about the process it takes in getting to where you are. You're right with the fact that ownership compromised Tallon's process. But the harsh reality is, you don't get a second chance with that. This is not about fans and what they think, it's about what the reality of the situation is. What reality says to you, this is what you need to win a cup. Rosters are only as good as the process it took to build it. And Zito is irrelevant. There's nothing he can do. That's why retools don't work. It's not his fault, but it is what it is. "Retools" are only good for a team that has already won a cup. And then it's mostly are about getting in the right coach, for a proven cup winning core group.My friend, this team is closer to a Cup than if they blow it up and wait 5-7 to get respectable again. If like you say they don't get top 2 picks and yet still manage to build a solid team several years later with shrewd moves, there's still.no guarantee they'll be as good as they are now.
Tallon had a process, but it was messed with and compromised by ownership. He also made some mistakes as well. Zito had to correct a flawed roster and cap situation, he didn't come into an ideal situation. He has a process as well, it just wasn't a rebuild. A retool is a process. Zito can't be blamed for past mistakes of owners and GMs. He's done a pretty good job since coming in, all things considered. This group definitely has the potential to win a Cup. You can disagree and that's fine, but no Panther core has had as much success as we've had the past couple years since the '93-97 team.
Are Lundell and Knight not both very promising young players, especially for their age? Lol. That's it. That's all I was trying to say. Idk why you're being so nitpicky.
But if this group doesn't win a cup in 2 or...
Wasn't Bruno criticized for just 'not wanting to interfere with what Q established'. Of course they're gonna have a different identity. Q is gone. It's time to move on.The team of last year transpired so much joy for the game, so much coolness and swagger to just go out and play, and all that through the whole Q story...
This feeling is completely gone. They seem like a disgruntled helpless sorry-for-themselves group right now. Q taught this team to never lose the fun for the game, and Bruno managed to ndot interfere with that and to just let them play. To me it seems that PoMo's presence messed that up, and the team indeed has to find a new identity again. I doubt that this identity fits to our group of players.
Well as tonight showed, they are capable of much more than .486 win %. No one would disagree that they have underachieved this season so far. We'll see what they do in the sscond half. But they still have the potential to be a top 10 team..486 is not good right now, Injuries are only excuses many teams faced before.
And i disagree with the second point of your Post, the double trade last year and the cost for both was far off.
Giroux showed emotion what was missed by most of the Team and grinded. And now we play that kind of Game that near no one in this Team wanna play beside 2nd Line down.
This Team has no Team spirit or a philosophy they are growing otherwise this Team would play or act different.
This Team reached a lot the last two Years and falled apart in both PO Years, the best Coach in Hockey is gone.
And i agree Bruno is no HeadCoach, but took over. Since then with the new Game and philosophie this Team looks gone and empty.
My 5 Cent on the Main Roster. AHL is something complete different.
St. Louis retooled, they didn't rebuild. They won the Cup. Saying retools don't work is ridiculous. Carolina also didn't follow a traditional rebuild in 2006. San Jose came as close as you can without winning it for 15 years.It's not about the roster, it's about the process it takes in getting to where you are. You're right with the fact that ownership compromised Tallon's process. But the harsh reality is, you don't get a second chance with that. This is not about fans and what they think, it's about what the reality of the situation is. What reality says to you, this is what you need to win a cup. Rosters are only as good as the process it took to build it. And Zito is irrelevant. There's nothing he can do. That's why retools don't work. It's not his fault, but it is what it is. "Retools" are only good for a team that has already won a cup. And then it's mostly are about getting in the right coach, for a proven cup winning core group.
And the point is, you say it will take 5-7 years for a rebuild to get to this point. But if this group doesn't win a cup in 2 or if you really are being generous, 3 years (I don't think they have 3 years). They definitely are not winning it 7 years from now. And then you have a old roster that's not on the verge of winning a cup.
Was it really a system thing?But we couldn't get past Tampa 2 years playing run and gun hockey.
Well, what do you think it was thenWas it really a system thing?
There is a difference between keeping an identity intact through avoiding major changes and refraining to make any systematic changes at all. Bruno not reacting at all to our miserable PP was just a horrible coaching decision and showed his inexperience. Yet he was a fitting guy for the team's moral and free-flow game play that they excelled at most of the time.Wasn't Bruno criticized for just 'not wanting to interfere with what Q established'. Of course they're gonna have a different identity. Q is gone. It's time to move on.
I was just wondering if it is the best fitting identity for the players we currently have and if it is getting the most out of them.
I think if there are some players that don't fit the identity, then they need to be shipped out. I believe in Zito and Maurice's direction. We need to become harder to play against and have different ways we can score in the playoffs. Playoff hockey is tighter, more physical, more grinding. They need to get used to playing that way to have success in the postseason.There is a difference between keeping an identity intact through avoiding major changes and refraining to make any systematic changes at all. Bruno not reacting at all to our miserable PP was just a horrible coaching decision and showed his inexperience. Yet he was a fitting guy for the team's moral and free-flow game play that they excelled at most of the time.
I am not criticizing PoMo for the fact he wants them to change their identity. I was just wondering if it is the best fitting identity for the players we currently have and if it is getting the most out of them. It always is a cruel time for the team to fight through system changes.
And I don't believe I sounded like whining about the good old Q times, even though I still believe he is by far the best coach out of our last 3.
Well as tonight showed, they are capable of much more than .486 win %. No one would disagree that they have underachieved this season so far. We'll see what they do in the sscond half. But they still have the potential to be a top 10 team.
The cost around the league for Chiarot was a 1st. It is what it is. It didn't work out, but Chiarot was highly sought after at the time and that was the cost. I was never really behind the Giroux acquisition, in hindsight Lehkonen would have been a better acquisition. But if those are Zito's 2 worst trades, he's not that bad. He's made many other good trades. Idk how anyone can say he hasn't done a good job with this team since he got here.
It's gonna take time to adjust to a new system and philosophy. There's gonna be growing pains as we've seen. But we couldn't get past Tampa 2 years playing run and gun hockey. So why would we want a new head coach with the same systems? It doesn't work in the playoffs. Sure, they may have fun in the regular season and yeah they probably love playing that style, but we're not out for regular season trophies anymore.