Prospect Info: Valtteri Puustinen (7th round, #203 overall, 2019)

[Pens x]

I hope the media presses sleepy and sully about why they continue to refuse to try AHL players when the current guys are absolute trash.

Power to the fans and media for making sleepy come out of his cave twice in a week.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Wouldnt be suprised if Veruca Saltivan already is planning on running him out of town or making up cover stories why he's worse then 100000 Mega-Hitlers.

 

[Pens x]

If FSG isn’t firing Sully and or Hextall, then I hope Puus gets dealt at the deadline for his own sake. He has no shot here.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

He's really impressed me in the Penguins games I've watched.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Agree. I think he’s been very good. More talented than I expected. IMO he can play in the NHL.

 

[eXile3]

Been singing his praises 3 years now. Got laughed at. People need to forget draft position once they’re drafted.

 

[Gurglesons]

He's really impressed me in the Penguins games I've watched.

If only our coach felt the same..

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Been singing his praises 3 years now. Got laughed at. People need to forget draft position once they’re drafted.

I know it cannot possibly be true (or probably even close to it) but it almost feels like 5th/6th/7th rounders pan out almost as often as late firsts. Regardless I agree that draft position shouldn't mean much once a player hits the pros. The AHL is kind of the first true equalizer and a ton of highly-touted guys with shiny draft status can't hack it because they simply can't get away with doing the things there that they did in juniors/NCAA/etc.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I know it cannot possibly be true (or probably even close to it) but it almost feels like 5th/6th/7th rounders pan out almost as often as late firsts. Regardless I agree that draft position shouldn't mean much once a player hits the pros. The AHL is kind of the first true equalizer and a ton of highly-touted guys with shiny draft status can't hack it because they simply can't get away with doing the things there that they did in juniors/NCAA/etc.

Guys who have the "1" next to their name face an extreme amount of internal & external (how much depends on market) pressure, whereas guys picked a few picks later with a "2" next to their name face very little pressure, even in passionate markets in Canada and the Northern US.

European Pro and NCAA route players have a longer development curve and get picked even more in late rounds, so that helps. Major junior guys have to be ready in 2-3 years, so they have issues if they don't adjust to pro well right away.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

If only our coach felt the same..

Should have been here to start the season. Ridiculous evaluation by Jack Adams, err Mikey Sullivan

 

[Gurglesons]

I know it cannot possibly be true (or probably even close to it) but it almost feels like 5th/6th/7th rounders pan out almost as often as late firsts. Regardless I agree that draft position shouldn't mean much once a player hits the pros. The AHL is kind of the first true equalizer and a ton of highly-touted guys with shiny draft status can't hack it because they simply can't get away with doing the things there that they did in juniors/NCAA/etc.

It's not that true, but 20ish 1st round picks have very low return rates.

 

[JTG]

I know it cannot possibly be true (or probably even close to it) but it almost feels like 5th/6th/7th rounders pan out almost as often as late firsts. Regardless I agree that draft position shouldn't mean much once a player hits the pros. The AHL is kind of the first true equalizer and a ton of highly-touted guys with shiny draft status can't hack it because they simply can't get away with doing the things there that they did in juniors/NCAA/etc.

Because the NHL draft is the greatest chance of luck in pro sports. These kids are getting drafted at 17 and 18 and then you have to wait for most of them to develop. The most important guys in an organization are scouts and guys who get their eyes on these players.

I've always thought that the kid's 20th birthday year, he's eligible for the draft. It gives all of the lower leagues more time with their stars, then none of these stupid Jr hockey rules for where guys can start, these teams can actually get a reasonable assessment on what these guys are going to be, and not have to wait 5-8 f***ing years for the kid to be reasonably ready to play outside of a big time player. Draft a guy outside the top 10, you may as well forget his name. That's not how it should be. That's why the NFL draft is so captivating for people. Your team has the chance to turn their fortunes around, just like that.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Because the NHL draft is the greatest chance of luck in pro sports. These kids are getting drafted at 17 and 18 and then you have to wait for most of them to develop. The most important guys in an organization are scouts and guys who get their eyes on these players.

I've always thought that the kid's 20th birthday year, he's eligible for the draft. It gives all of the lower leagues more time with their stars, then none of these stupid Jr hockey rules for where guys can start, these teams can actually get a reasonable assessment on what these guys are going to be, and not have to wait 5-8 f***ing years for the kid to be reasonably ready to play outside of a big time player. Draft a guy outside the top 10, you may as well forget his name. That's not how it should be. That's why the NFL draft is so captivating for people. Your team has the chance to turn their fortunes around, just like that.

The NHL Draft age used to be 20, then moved to 18 (by September 15) back in the day because the WHA had a lower draft age.

The MLB Draft is even more of chance/luck in pro sports, as you're drafting some kids out of HS, some out of NCAA/JUCO, and you force HS players to choose to sign or forego signing to enter the NCAA. Plus, the MLB has so many minor leagues that most guys bust out for a variety of reasons.

I actually like the NHL Draft age structure the way it is because of labor/adult age being 18, thus a more free market, and also because hockey isn't a school based sport like football and basketball (historically) are. The CHL and European Pro routes account for 66% of the players, thus no need to cater to draft rules that the NFL and NBA have.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I know it cannot possibly be true (or probably even close to it) but it almost feels like 5th/6th/7th rounders pan out almost as often as late firsts. Regardless I agree that draft position shouldn't mean much once a player hits the pros. The AHL is kind of the first true equalizer and a ton of highly-touted guys with shiny draft status can't hack it because they simply can't get away with doing the things there that they did in juniors/NCAA/etc.

It's not that true, but 20ish 1st round picks have very low return rates.

View attachment 825586

Here's a graph I put together of the picks from 2006 to 2015:

Success = at least 82 or 60 games played in the NHL (82 for skaters, 60 for goalies)

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Nice! Thanks for bringing the data... love it.

 

[Fordy]

some guys have the nhl talent but don't have the attitude to stick around under under mike sullivan when they can go back and have successful careers in europe, we've seen it happen before on this team. i don't think puusty is that guy. he's a great fit with malkin, and should have a solid career on another nhl team when he moves on

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Nice! Thanks for bringing the data... love it.

Thanks. Been meaning to update it and do a better definition of "success".

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Here's a graph I put together of the picks from 2006 to 2015:

Success = at least 82 or 60 games played in the NHL (82 for skaters, 60 for goalies)

You see that cluster in the late 1st being lower than a cluster in the early to mid 2nd, partially as a result of exactly what I mentioned: "Guys who have the "1" next to their name face an extreme amount of internal & external (how much depends on market) pressure, whereas guys picked a few picks later with a "2" next to their name face very little pressure, even in passionate markets in Canada and the Northern US."

 

[JTG]

The NHL Draft age used to be 20, then moved to 18 (by September 15) back in the day because the WHA had a lower draft age.

The MLB Draft is even more of chance/luck in pro sports, as you're drafting some kids out of HS, some out of NCAA/JUCO, and you force HS players to choose to sign or forego signing to enter the NCAA. Plus, the MLB has so many minor leagues that most guys bust out for a variety of reasons.

I actually like the NHL Draft age structure the way it is because of labor/adult age being 18, thus a more free market, and also because hockey isn't a school based sport like football and basketball (historically) are. The CHL and European Pro routes account for 66% of the players, thus no need to cater to draft rules that the NFL and NBA have.

It's actually interesting to me now with NIL deals, what kind of money are these college guys looking at for big time D1 schools? If they make more than a major junior, maybe college hockey starts being more viable?

I despise baseball economics. None of it makes any sense.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

It's actually interesting to me now with NIL deals, what kind of money are these college guys looking at for big time D1 schools? If they make more than a major junior, maybe college hockey starts being more viable?

I despise baseball economics. None of it makes any sense.

Very few NCAA hockey programs have sizable NIL money. Jaxon Nelson, a senior at University of Minnesota, confirmed to one of his hometown publications that there's very little NIL money in D1 hockey, even at a blue blood like Minnesota.

The Cole Eiserman situation, where BU pulled the local kid away from his commitment to Minnesota, has heavily been rumored to be due to NIL, but those cases are few and far between.

Remember, 99% of kids from MA/New England and MN are going NCAA regardless. There are so few high profile players from MI, NY, IL, PA, NJ, CA, WI, etc (and most relatively high profile Canadians and Europeans who go NCAA are unknown to nearly everyone in the US hockey community) who would be getting major NIL money offers, as minor hockey just isn't as popular or visible.

I would guess the blue bloods have some NIL money, but it's not huge with the few exceptions for the elite of elite. NCAA hockey has been quite viable for a long time as a route and as a D1 sport, but it's incredibly niche and it's so expensive to have as a D1 sport, so it will remain niche and really only big in Minnesota, New England, and then parts of Michigan, New York, North Dakota, and Wisconsin.

 

[Freeptop]

It's not that true, but 20ish 1st round picks have very low return rates.

View attachment 825586

This is where I point out that much of the hype around first and second round picks was started at a time when the League had around had a lot fewer teams and the mythologizing of first round picks (and especially second round picks as "high picks") hasn't really caught up to the fact that there are now 32 teams, and thus, 32 picks in the first round.

For reference, when the draft age was permanently lowered to 18 in 1980, there were 21 teams.
The last pick of the first round today was in the last half of the second round in 1980.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

It's actually interesting to me now with NIL deals, what kind of money are these college guys looking at for big time D1 schools? If they make more than a major junior, maybe college hockey starts being more viable?

I despise baseball economics. None of it makes any sense.

a college lacrosse recruit pulled in a 6 figure plus pay day to flip his commitment. I have to imagine there’s a bit more cash in hockey, given the pro league is 100x more legit.

Although maybe that makes college lax more likely to have $? Since it’s the top level of the sport? Idk.

But hope that gives you an idea.

 

[JTG]

Very few NCAA hockey programs have sizable NIL money. Jaxon Nelson, a senior at University of Minnesota, confirmed to one of his hometown publications that there's very little NIL money in D1 hockey, even at a blue blood like Minnesota.

The Cole Eiserman situation, where BU pulled the local kid away from his commitment to Minnesota, has heavily been rumored to be due to NIL, but those cases are few and far between.

Remember, 99% of kids from MA/New England and MN are going NCAA regardless. There are so few high profile players from MI, NY, IL, PA, NJ, CA, WI, etc (and most relatively high profile Canadians and Europeans who go NCAA are unknown to nearly everyone in the US hockey community) who would be getting major NIL money offers, as minor hockey just isn't as popular or visible.

I would guess the blue bloods have some NIL money, but it's not huge with the few exceptions for the elite of elite. NCAA hockey has been quite viable for a long time as a route and as a D1 sport, but it's incredibly niche and it's so expensive to have as a D1 sport, so it will remain niche and really only big in Minnesota, New England, and then parts of Michigan, New York, North Dakota, and Wisconsin.

I dig your posts!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Dom Simon was the other older late pick that the Pens had other than Puustinen that have made the Pens, I can't recall if they drafted more that worked out (well so far for Puustinen before Sully, Sullies again). Simon had his moments but the issues were pretty clear even when he was playing well, the bottom fell out hard for him.

 

[canadianguy77]

This is where I point out that much of the hype around first and second round picks was started at a time when the League had around had a lot fewer teams and the mythologizing of first round picks (and especially second round picks as "high picks") hasn't really caught up to the fact that there are now 32 teams, and thus, 32 picks in the first round.

For reference, when the draft age was permanently lowered to 18 in 1980, there were 21 teams.
The last pick of the first round today was in the last half of the second round in 1980.

I wonder how many more people play the game now compared to then?