U18: Team USA 2023 U18 Championship

[SanDogBrewin]

Dumb challenge.

Fischer and Buium have been rough this tournament. So lackadaisical retrieving that dump in.

Terrible challenge. Didn't like the non-call in the corner right before the Sweden goal. Swedish stick right up in the US defenders helmet.

 

[SK94]

It would have been beneficial to have a stronger group stage. Now it is a huge step up from earlier games. Both penalties were something you shouldn't take in the final. Pointless challenge and then Leonard took another dumb penalty when on the PP.

 

[William H Bonney]

Teams still feeling each other out in that opening period. Pretty even. Giving up the opening goal was not ideal, especially since Erliden looks dialed in again.

The goal against was so easily preventable. Buium and Fischer were both so lackadaisical turning and retrieving that puck. Should have been an easy retrieval but instead they dogged it and it cost them. They let 1 forechecker beat 3 guys.

Terrible challenge. Didn't like the non-call in the corner right before the Sweden goal. Swedish stick right up in the US defenders helmet.

Yeah, reffing that period was.... interesting. They ignored some obvious calls you have to make such as that high stick on Buium right before the goal, the Leonard trip early in the 1st. I guess the only positive was the inconsistency went both ways. It's been one of the better refereed IIHF tournaments (which isn't saying much) but not a great 1st from the stripes.

 

[William H Bonney]

It would have been beneficial to have a stronger group stage. Now it is a huge step up from earlier games. Both penalties were something you shouldn't take in the final. Pointless challenge and then Leonard took another dumb penalty when on the PP.

Yep. Also doesn't help that the U18s comfortably beat Sweden twice this season. The NTDP is always overconfident in this tournament. And I bet this team is more confident than most prior iterations given the circumstances.

 

[William H Bonney]

Another USAH choke job in progress?

 

[jj cale]

Another USAH choke job in progress?

I'm not sure you could classify it as a choke, man, this Swedish team is a real pain in the ass.

 

[Czechboy]

As a fan I always prefer the high scoring team over the high defending team.

Majority of championships get won by D though.

Curious if US can get back in this. I think they can. Swedes look great right now... PP, 2 goal lead. Their D just don't make many mistakes. A real solid group!

 

[William H Bonney]

I'm not sure you could classify it as a choke, man, this Swedish team is a real pain in the ass.

It is a choke when the NTDP puts all their eggs in the IIHF U18 basket. This tournament is their goal after 2 seasons. And they're on their way to 5 tournaments since winning gold and having lost the gold medal game 3 times during that stretch.

It has nothing to do with Sweden not being an excellent team. And everything to do with USAH's approach to this tournament.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

I'm not sure you could classify it as a choke, man, this Swedish team is a real pain in the ass.

Sweden is good with excellent goaltending.

 

[jj cale]

It is a choke when the NTDP puts all their eggs in the IIHF U18 basket. They're on their way to 5 tournaments since winning gold and having lost the gold medal game 3 times during that stretch.

It has nothing to do with Sweden not being an excellent team. And everything to do with USAH's approach to this tournament.

point taken still..............Sweden just looks like a machine defensively with a dialed in goalie to boot.

Tough for any team to beat no matter what approach you take i'd say.

 

[SK94]

Even the top line is a mess out there. It's crazy considering how many goals they have scored that it feels like there is no threat at all.

I am sure that Muse is not going to change anything during the intermission. I would like to see some personnel changes at USA Hockey and new approach when they are selecting coaches. They need to know international game better. They should also finally start to look reasons why our opponents are often so much better organized.

Least this year it is easier to accept if they lose because Swedes has not been just better today but also the best team in the tournament. 01s lost against Russia in the semi-finals and 04s lost against Sweden in the final were much harder pill to swallow.

 

[William H Bonney]

point taken still..............Sweden just looks like a machine defensively with a dialed in goalie to boot.

Tough for any team to beat no matter what approach you take i'd say.

By choke I don't mean this is an upset or that Sweden would be an undeserving gold medalist. This isn't like last year's tournament where USA thoroughly dominated Sweden but hit endless posts and got terrible goaltending.

Choke because USAH and the NTDP treat this as the be-all-end-all of the program - which is dumb and a mistake - and they're on their way to not being successful for a 5th straight tournament. Choke because their approach to the tournament hasn't been working but they trudge on. Choke because they'd rather be loyal to marginal players instead of taking better players.

When things are going well in this tournament USAH doesn't shut up about it. But they should do better than the other countries in this tournament. They take it more seriously. It wouldn't be dissimilar if Canada went 5 Hlinka's without a gold.

As a fan I always prefer the high scoring team over the high defending team.

Majority of championships get won by D though.

Curious if US can get back in this. I think they can. Swedes look great right now... PP, 2 goal lead. Their D just don't make many mistakes. A real solid group!

I'd be surprised unless they get an early goal in the 3rd. This team gets very selfish and individualistic when things aren't going their way. And it'll be tough to get multiple goals against Sweden playing that way.

 

[WarriorofTime]

See the same thing lately. They cruise through bad competition in the group stage and score like 10 goals a game. Then they get to the semis or finals and face a talented team and things don’t go well early and they lose composure and tighten up and don’t play with much fluidity. The two year buildup to this one tournament and the historical success until recently seem like a bad combination as far as not having a good mental game. The second period was extremely poor in my opinion.

 

[SK94]

I'd be surprised unless they get an early goal in the 3rd. This team gets very selfish and individualistic when things aren't going their way. And it'll be tough to get multiple goals against Sweden playing that way.

I would say that this has always been a huge issue for us. Even with senior teams. I think that is a big reason why super disciplined team like Finland has often been so difficult to us. They are pain in the ass and our guys are losing their minds.

 

[William H Bonney]

Even the top line is a mess out there. It's crazy considering how many goals they have scored that it feels like there is no threat at all.

I am sure that Muse is not going to change anything during the intermission. I would like to see some personnel changes at USA Hockey and new approach when they are selecting coaches. They need to know international game better. They should also finally start to look reasons why our opponents are often so much better organized.

Least this year it is easier to accept if they lose because Swedes has not been just better today but also the best team in the tournament. 01s lost against Russia in the semi-finals and 04s lost against Sweden in the final were much harder pill to swallow.

Yeah, the 01s and 04s were different. They thoroughly dominated their opponents. Just happened to hit endless posts, run into hot goalies, and get poor goaltending all the in the same game they lost.

1st line is playing selfish. They're taking crazy long shifts and just throwing blind passes. Sweden has them frustrated. Doesn't help that Perreault is convinced he's going to score multiple short side bad angle goals today instead of passing the puck (sans the beautiful breakaway pass to Terrance).

Muse should shorten the bench and mix things up to start the 3rd. I doubt he does. NTDP coaches are stubborn in their approach.

 

[WarriorofTime]

While I wouldn’t mind cutting half the team from the USNDTP for this tournament each year, you have to think if you did that, you won’t get players to commit and then there’s no point in having a USNDTP. In some ways I think USA has outgrown the need for this team but it’s hard to unwind. Once you have it, players want to be in it and it’s a good way to attract dual citizen kids. They don’t necessarily want to go play in Fargo or Lincoln or whatever USHL team happens to get their draft rights. So you may be a bit stuck even though I think it’s starting to get counterproductive.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

While I wouldn’t mind cutting half the team from the USNDTP for this tournament each year, you have to think if you did that, you won’t get players to commit and then there’s no point in having a USNDTP. In some ways I think USA has outgrown the need for this team but it’s hard to unwind. Once you have it, players want to be in it and it’s a good way to attract dual citizen kids. They don’t necessarily want to go play in Fargo or Lincoln or whatever USHL team happens to get their draft rights. So you may be a bit stuck even though I think it’s starting to get counterproductive.

You well describe why the USNTDP is going nowhere but needs to be reevaluated.

 

[SK94]

While I wouldn’t mind cutting half the team from the USNDTP for this tournament each year, you have to think if you did that, you won’t get players to commit and then there’s no point in having a USNDTP. In some ways I think USA has outgrown the need for this team but it’s hard to unwind. Once you have it, players want to be in it and it’s a good way to attract dual citizen kids. They don’t necessarily want to go play in Fargo or Lincoln or whatever USHL team happens to get their draft rights. So you may be a bit stuck even though I think it’s starting to get counterproductive.

NTDP is still a very much beneficial for the USA Hockey. No doubt about that. You have to remember how much NTDP is giving to these guys. It is still very beneficial to be part of even you don't go to Worlds after two years. End of the day, it is only a one tournament. I don't think they need to be this loyal to get guys sign up. This year D group should have been improved.

 

[William H Bonney]

Carter Slaggert. The 13th forward. A guy who probably only made the NTDP because of his dad. A guy who should have been demoted a while ago to the U17s and replaced for this tournament. And yet he's getting shifts with 13 minutes left while down 2 in the gold medal game.

NTDP coaching at its finest.

 

[SK94]

Danny Nelson should have played much more in this tournament. Has earned it. Unsung hero of the team.

 

[William H Bonney]

Buium finally with a positive play. He's had a rough tournament but I do like his long-term potential.

Nelson is underrated. The engine that makes the 4th line go.

Danny Nelson should have played much more in this tournament. Has earned it. Unsung hero of the team.

Yeah, he's a center but he should have been on the Moore or Hagens lines over Terrance, Fine, or Vote. I don't care which person you leave at center and which you move to wing.

 

[William H Bonney]

Edstrom with the gift. Must have been his American dad's genes controlling his brain.

 

[William H Bonney]

It's insane the speed and accuracy Eiserman gets on his shot when it doesn't even seem like he's trying.

 

[jj cale]

It's insane the speed and accuracy Eiserman gets on his shot when it doesn't even seem like he's trying.

Speaking of choke jobs you are witnessing a genuine one in progress right now.

 

[William H Bonney]

Speaking of choke jobs you are witnessing a genuine one in progress right now.

Yep. Sweden got too confident that they could hunker down.