Series Talk: Round 1: Predators vs. Canucks

[101st_fan]

Novak is 27. Not exactly a young guy at this point. Fagemo and Foudy were retreads and Foudy unsurprisingly joins the tweener group that we have plenty of. I think Parssinen played very poorly at the NHL level this year- no argument there. Tomasino horse has been beaten to death.

Let's say Zucker leaves. I am not of the opinion that this team is short on tweener types- I think that's hardly arguable. I don't see the harm in opening the season with 2 more spots that are essentially designated for current Milwaukee players (it won't be presented this way of course but you get the idea). I certainly don't think the team will greatly miss what Sherwood, Jankowski, McCarron, etc bring which is somewhere between replacement level and league average.

No particular order-

Tomasino
L'Heureux
Afanasyev
Kemell
Svechkov
Parssinen

6 guys that can compete for a couple of roster spots and push out some of the known-quantity mediocrity down the roster. Mix and match depending on the role we are looking to fill. Truthfully, if that somehow torpedoes the Preds' playoff chances, there's not a great loss here. You can frame that as not caring if they make it or not, but while I want them to make the playoffs every year, the idea of sneaking in again as one of the oldest teams in the league is just not that compelling.

Performance, not age, matters. I don't care if it's a kid or a vet that performs, as long as they perform. Nyquist was expected to fill a 2nd or 3rd line role .. then stepped up and executed. Novak, Tomasino, and Pärssinen were expected to put up points yet only one of the three did ... for part of the season. There are roster spots to take. It's up to players to do it. For all of the handwringing over Smith, Sherwood, Jankowski, and McCarron .. nobody really made a case to push them out of the lineup.

Come camp, what do the current top performers in Milwaukee do to make a case for themselves? That is what matters. We've buried Jankowski in the AHL to start the last two seasons. Smith and McCarron are candidates for 13th/14th forward. It's a matter of execution.

 

[wmupreds]

Performance, not age, matters. I don't care if it's a kid or a vet that performs, as long as they perform. Nyquist was expected to fill a 2nd or 3rd line role .. then stepped up and executed. Novak, Tomasino, and Pärssinen were expected to put up points yet only one of the three did ... for part of the season. There are roster spots to take. It's up to players to do it. For all of the handwringing over Smith, Sherwood, Jankowski, and McCarron .. nobody really made a case to push them out of the lineup.

Come camp, what do the current top performers in Milwaukee do to make a case for themselves? That is what matters. We've buried Jankowski in the AHL to start the last two seasons. Smith and McCarron are candidates for 13th/14th forward. It's a matter of execution.

I'm not going to open up the great Tomasino P/60 debate again- it's beaten to death. And my point goes beyond any one player anyway.

"Performance, not age, matters" is true enough in a vacuum but frankly it's a very rigid and flawed way of looking at things when you're talking about asset management and roster building. Age absolutely matters in that context.

If all these kids save Vange in the 21-24ish range are actually not capable of playing at the NHL level by next year we have bigger problems than previously thought.

 

[101st_fan]

I'm not going to open up the great Tomasino P/60 debate again- it's beaten to death. And my point goes beyond any one player anyway.

"Performance, not age, matters" is true enough in a vacuum but frankly it's a very rigid and flawed way of looking at things when you're talking about asset management and roster building. Age absolutely matters in that context.

If all these kids save Vange in the 21-24ish range are actually not capable of playing at the NHL level by next year we have bigger problems that previously thought.

It's a very merit based view. Beat out Sherwood or Jankowski if you want the spot. The kids in Milwaukee didn't which is what got Jankowski called up ahead of them two seasons in a row. This is quite simply a profession where performing in your role matters. Best option tends to play across the league and our kids haven't EARNED the spot.

 

[Predsanddead24]

All I know is we had a 3-1 lead with 3 minutes left and it definitely wasn’t any of the young guys fault we blew it. Make of that what you will.

 

[101st_fan]

Welcome to competitive hockey that doesn't go our way.

 

[Armourboy]

All I know is we had a 3-1 lead with 3 minutes left and it definitely wasn’t any of the young guys fault we blew it. Make of that what you will.

Doesn't bode well for a group of Vets that were brought in to teach the young guys how to win.

 

[Scoresberg]

Well, I'm glad the youngsters O'Reilly, Schenn etc. got this new experience and now they can develop and be EVEN better next year!

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Maybe the organization will notice something about the bundle of AHL tweener types now? Maybe when they serve as examples of consistent hard work, giving 100%, etc in the regular season, it can make them seem “safer” to put on the ice? But… they have nowhere to go from there… no room to elevate their play to playoff level, no upside to be better.

We might have 4 or 5 guys up front who simply wouldn’t make the lineups of any contending team. Until that is fixed, we can’t set our expectations too high.

Then on D I think while we have nhl calibre players at least, we have some who are mis-cast or severely overrated by the coaching staff. Lauzon and Carrier in particular are just not good defenders. They can play in the league, but shouldn’t be top-4 minutes. We needed an Ekholm back there last night.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

We have RFAs still on the board. Parssinen, Anderson-Dolan, Stastney, Tomasino, Afanseyev, Alison, Foudy, Del Gaizo, and Wilsby. There is also Zucker, Beauvillier, Carrier, and Barrie as UFAs.

But I was thinking about the 1st group. Does Trotz bring them all back? Why? It's not clear they really fit the program going forward. "Walk" wasn't a good choice of verb, but some of them may not get offers. Some of them may be traded away for some other assets too.

The point though is that with some of these guys it might have been good to get some more evaluation time in games. Maybe not though. Maybe they already know they're not going to work out or are going to take a big step up.

But I am leaning in your direction here. I'm not sure Trotz and Brunette really want to bring any of these guys, RFA or UFA, back to be honest.

I don't think it's difficult to decide what to do with any of the FAs, UFA or RFA.

Qualify and sign Parssinen, Stastney, Tomasino, Afanaseyev, and Del Gaizo - and find places for them on the team. (Or in the case of Tomasino, could include him in a trade if you're permanently convinced he won't ever take the next step).

Don't qualify Anderson-Dolan, Alison, Foudy, Wilsby (or Grigals). Foudy has been decent in Milwaukee, Anderson-Dolan probably would be too, Wilsby is too, but seems to have topped out. Depending on what the lineup looks like for the Ads, could bring any of these guys back, but it doesn't have to be via qualified contract. They might want to shop around for better openings, or in the case of Wilsby go back to Sweden.

Barrie obviously walks. I'd let Carrier go too... he's a passable NHL defender but is just massively overrated by our coaching staff, and just not a good fit for our mix right now given the types of D we have in the system atm to promote. I don't think it will help our mix or the development of our incoming D to have them slotted for many years behind Carrier on a 4x$4M or whatever type of deal the organization seems to view him as being worthy of. Let him get that contract somewhere else. I'd take Sherwood back, but 3 out of him Smith, McCarron, Jankowski would be starting in Milwaukee if they cleared waivers. Beauvillier can take a hike. Zucker has been decent, but I wouldn't pay him what he's used to... something like 2x$2.5M would be the limit of my interest in him.

Weatherby, Gross, and McKeown can walk from the farm team. We need to find better NHL defenders, and we have Ufko, Hanzel, Matier, and Prokop who need to play regularly in the AHL. Gravel is already back as the veteran down there. Livingstone will still be there. It may not bode as well for the Ads staying at the top, so maybe one of Gross/McKeown/Wilsby could stick around or another veteran FA hired, but just 1.

Goaltending is where things will really be interesting. Let's see how Askarov fares in the AHL playoffs. I'm sure tons of speculation in our off-season will center on what to do with Saros. Which then impacts what we do with Lankinen. If we traded Saros we'd want to keep Lankinen to run with Askarov. Assuming we promote Askarov, do they see enough in Haider to play him in the AHL instead of ECHL while keeping Grosenick? Do we just run Saros+Askarov and punt that question down the road? I have an easy answer for what to do with all of our other UFAs and RFAs, but goaltending is going to be everybody's question mark. And will have its own dedicated threads again I'm sure.

 

[101st_fan]

Let's bring the goalposts back to their original position. This is a bubble team that got into a wild card spot on the backs of a career season from Forsberg and offensive resurrections from O'Reilly and Nyquist. While it was among the best goal producing seasons in franchise history, it was also among the worst for goals allowed and PK%. Our TDL buys were done with mid to late round draft picks ... with Zucker being the only move that bolstered the middle six, Beauvillier at best a lateral move, and the JAD claim not resulting in anything so far.

Getting to the playoffs was a longshot for this team to start the season. Advancing beyond the first round an even longer shot no matter what people hoped.

 

[herzausstein]

So will fabbro get back into the next game. Easily had the least amount of TOI of all the dmen. Only 5 shifts in the 3rd period (last shift was the final 8 seconds of the period after vancouver already tied it up) and it was a total 5v5 period which is where fabbro typically gets his TOI.

I just dont see a future for him (or glass) here with Brunette.

 

[Predsanddead24]

So will fabbro get back into the next game. Easily had the least amount of TOI of all the dmen. Only 5 shifts in the 3rd period (last shift was the final 8 seconds of the period after vancouver already tied it up) and it was a total 5v5 period which is where fabbro typically gets his TOI.

I just dont see a future for him (or glass) here with Brunette.

Well we had to sit him and Evangelista to make sure we had the defensively responsible guys who know how to hold a lead out there.

 

[herzausstein]

Well we had to sit him and Evangelista to make sure we had the defensively responsible guys who know how to hold a lead out there.

Worked out perfectly too. I swear our top line and Josi McDonagh have given up a ton of goals

 

[drwpreds]

I don't know how this is remotely possible, but I woke up this morning and felt even worse- lol

Just a couple of thoughts- I keep seeing and hearing a ton of Preds fans basically saying "well, this was just a bubble team anyway who went on a hot streak and probably shouldn't have even been in the playoffs anyway, etc, etc". Or something close to that.

My take? If we had just been completely outclassed and dominated in this series that I would be 100% on board with that line of thinking. But that absolutely is not what has happened in this series. At the very least it has been an even series, but I would argue the Preds have been the better overall team and easily could (and maybe should) be up 3-1 instead of down 3-1. If you watched the first 57 minutes of that game yesterday WE looked like the 2 seed, not Vancouver.

We controlled play for almost the entire two games at home, out shot them 60-32

So for me, I can't just look back now becuase of epic 2 minute failure and just say well, we aren't good enough and shouldn't have even made the playoffs to start with. If anything I think we have actually shown that we did belong in the playoffs.

And finally, I was thinking about this and the fact that overall we have probably been the better team in the series. We have had two separate spectacular, complete fails that have completely cost us the series.

Game 1- blew a late lead by giving up 2 goals in 12 seconds
Game 4- spectacular collapse- giving up 3 goals in 4 minutes

So there have been a total of 242 total minutes played- and we pretty much blew the series by two incredible meltdowns totaling a combined 4 minutes and 12 seconds. For the other 237+ minutes we have been the better team and could/should be up 3 games to 1.

They have scored 11 goals in the series- almost half of them came in that 4 minute and 12 second span- unbelievable.

Like I said, I feel even worse today than I did sitting in Bridgestone yesterday- still cannot even wrap my head around it

 

[herzausstein]

I don't know how this is remotely possible, but I woke up this morning and felt even worse- lol

Just a couple of thoughts- I keep seeing and hearing a ton of Preds fans basically saying "well, this was just a bubble team anyway who went on a hot streak and probably shouldn't have even been in the playoffs anyway, etc, etc". Or something close to that.

My take? If we had just been completely outclassed and dominated in this series that I would be 100% on board with that line of thinking. But that absolutely is not what has happened in this series. At the very least it has been an even series, but I would argue the Preds have been the better overall team and easily could (and maybe should) be up 3-1 instead of down 3-1. If you watched the first 57 minutes of that game yesterday WE looked like the 2 seed, not Vancouver.

We controlled play for almost the entire two games at home, out shot them 60-32

So for me, I can't just look back now becuase of epic 2 minute failure and just say well, we aren't good enough and shouldn't have even made the playoffs to start with. If anything I think we have actually shown that we did belong in the playoffs.

And finally, I was thinking about this and the fact that overall we have probably been the better team in the series. We have had two separate spectacular, complete fails that have completely cost us the series.

Game 1- blew a late lead by giving up 2 goals in 12 seconds
Game 4- spectacular collapse- giving up 3 goals in 4 minutes

So there have been a total of 242 total minutes played- and we pretty much blew the series by two incredible meltdowns totaling a combined 4 minutes and 12 seconds. For the other 237+ minutes we have been the better team and could/should be up 3 games to 1

Like I said, I feel even worse today than I did sitting in Bridgestone yesterday- still cannot even wrap my head around it

This has been a winnable series. Every game we have lost has been lost due to a couple minute window of foolish play.

Up 2-1 going into the 3rd and give up 2 goals in 12 seconds.

McCarron full on steamrolls the goalie behind the net for a penalty and they score on the ensuing powerplay.

Full on collapse of a 2 goal lead with under 3 mins left in the game and then OT goal just over a minute into OT. Just 4 minutes of WTF. Cant clear a puck and kept sending the same people out there to keep doing it over and over again.

Other then that an inept PP has been a killer.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I don't know how this is remotely possible, but I woke up this morning and felt even worse- lol

Just a couple of thoughts- I keep seeing and hearing a ton of Preds fans basically saying "well, this was just a bubble team anyway who went on a hot streak and probably shouldn't have even been in the playoffs anyway, etc, etc". Or something close to that.

My take? If we had just been completely outclassed and dominated in this series that I would be 100% on board with that line of thinking. But that absolutely is not what has happened in this series. At the very least it has been an even series, but I would argue the Preds have been the better overall team and easily could (and maybe should) be up 3-1 instead of down 3-1. If you watched the first 57 minutes of that game yesterday WE looked like the 2 seed, not Vancouver.

We controlled play for almost the entire two games at home, out shot them 60-32

So for me, I can't just look back now becuase of epic 2 minute failure and just say well, we aren't good enough and shouldn't have even made the playoffs to start with. If anything I think we have actually shown that we did belong in the playoffs.

And finally, I was thinking about this and the fact that overall we have probably been the better team in the series. We have had two separate spectacular, complete fails that have completely cost us the series.

Game 1- blew a late lead by giving up 2 goals in 12 seconds
Game 4- spectacular collapse- giving up 3 goals in 4 minutes

So there have been a total of 242 total minutes played- and we pretty much blew the series by two incredible meltdowns totaling a combined 4 minutes and 12 seconds. For the other 237+ minutes we have been the better team and could/should be up 3 games to 1.

They have scored 11 goals in the series- almost half of them came in that 4 minute and 12 second span- unbelievable.

Like I said, I feel even worse today than I did sitting in Bridgestone yesterday- still cannot even wrap my head around it

For real. The way some people talk you'd think we're facing the Gretzky led Oilers. Instead we're facing a team that was predicted to also miss the playoffs and is on their third string goalie. FWIW without Demko the Cancuks had a worse point percentage than we did this season. We've been given a prime opportunity and have completely squandered it. On top of that we're losing this series in large part because of the culture building vets and the "give it your all" tweeners we've decided should be the core of our team.

 

[JR303]

Completely agree, drwpreds and was debating coming here to say basically the same thing.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

This has been a winnable series. Every game we have lost has been lost due to a couple minute window of foolish play.

Up 2-1 going into the 3rd and give up 2 goals in 12 seconds.

McCarron full on steamrolls the goalie behind the net for a penalty and they score on the ensuing powerplay.

Full on collapse of a 2 goal lead with under 3 mins left in the game and then OT goal just over a minute into OT. Just 4 minutes of WTF. Cant clear a puck and kept sending the same people out there to keep doing it over and over again.

Other then that an inept PP has been a killer.

We could easily be the team up 3-1 in this series or even have swept them, with a handful of (basic hockey) moments just executed correctly and special teams that weren't complete impotent. Overachievers or not, playoff teams (even bubble ones) should not be crapping the bed with some of these plays.

 

[ChuckFanForever]

Sorry, but is this the 7th straight Playoff loss at home for the Predators?

 

[drwpreds]

Saw someone posted this elsewhere and it is kind of true. In the 4 games played in this series you can make the argument that the better team in each particular game is now 0-4

 

[hockey diva]

You're not sorry, you're just here to gloat, please go back under the rock you came from.

 

[drwpreds]

Sorry, but is this the 7th straight Playoff loss at home for the Predators?

If my research is correct we have now lost 5 in a row.

0-2 this year
0-2 against Colorado two years ago
lost the last game against Carolina after winning 2 home OT games

Overall, going back to the Winnipeg series in 2018, we are 4-11 at home

6-12 at home since the Cup run season.

Pretty depressing. I know our fanbase gets some grief for the atmosphere not being as great as it used to be but good gracious there has been pretty much nothing but misery in Bridgestone since that Cup run- hard to blame fans for being gunshy about getting fired up

 

[drwpreds]

One thing I have been wondering and have not been able to find an answer. How many times has what happened yesterday ever happened in the history of the NHL playoffs?

A team scores TWO 6 on 5 empty net goals to tie a game and then go on to win it.

Or simply- what is the record for teams that are up 2 goals with less than 3 minutes left in a playoff game?? Has anyone ever lost a game in that situation before yesterday?

Has that EVER happened before in the playoffs?? If it has it can't have happened much.

Still can't get over it

 

[drwpreds]

If my research is correct we have now lost 5 in a row.

0-2 this year
0-2 against Colorado two years ago
lost the last game against Carolina after winning 2 home OT games

Overall, going back to the Winnipeg series in 2018, we are 4-11 at home

6-12 at home since the Cup run season.

Pretty depressing. I know our fanbase gets some grief for the atmosphere not being as great as it used to be but good gracious there has been pretty much nothing but misery in Bridgestone since that Cup run- hard to blame fans for being gunshy about getting fired up

And just a follow up on this- all of that home misery makes that Cup run season all the more crazy. We were completely dominant at home during that Cup playoff run. Went 9-2 at home and one of the losses was in OT and the other one was the Pittsburgh game 6 that was 0-0 with 2 minutes left in the game.

 

[BigFatCat999]

We need to laugh in this thread. Let me tell you the story of how I dislocated my knee working a work study job during a hockey game. It sprained my right foot the day before and I was working as one of the guys moving the nets for the Zamboni the day after walking on the ice my foot was numb and my right knee dislocated in front of a lot of my friends in college. Biggest highlight was after everybody stop laughing I heard one person go “oh I think he hurt himself.” Luckily, the knee pop back in the place when I fell down on the ice.