OT: Raise the Jolly Rodger: Post Ship trading deadline

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DJ Spinoza

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So glad that Hayes didn't get hurt on that stupid send. I don't mind how crazy aggressive Rabelo is at times but that was risky and never going to work.

LMAO Rivas and Bae. Imagine this if you are a Reds fan. Just like we said f*** the Cubs -- f*** the Reds. Finish this and then stomp them tomorrow.
 

DJ Spinoza

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I'm still intrigued enough with him but he's really rough to watch a lot of times. It's a function of the very bad depth right now, even if Holderman is as bad at times. I'm shocked he didn't fully give up the lead, though weirdly maybe it's a good thing to try and test him there.

It seems like the plan is for Bednar to stay down tonight and as bad as I want to win and bust the Reds out of the playoffs, I think being cautious with Bednar is smart. Pride/being a spoiler still counts, but these games are fundamentally meaningless in the end. That's also why I hated seeing Hayes sent -- Hayes has a laundry list of injuries and is capping off the best stretch of his career. There's no reason to take any risks whatsoever with him.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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Yeah, never easy. I'll be really surprise if we somehow pull this out. Everything is on the line for the Reds.
 

Empoleon8771

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Also Triolo went 4 for 5 today and his OPS is now up to .757. He's quickly playing his way into "should be the starting 2B next year" territory for me.

I don't know that he has a very high upside, but his floor is super high with his defense, speed and contact skills. If he can mesh a bit of power in there, the dude is tailor made to be a 2B.
 

WickedWrister

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1695528872715.png
 

metalan2

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So what are we looking at for OD next season?

1B - Joe?
2B - Peguero? Gonzalez?
SS - Cruz
3B - Hayes
C - Rodriguez/ Davis
RF - Davis/ Suwinski?
CF - Bae? Suwinski?
LF - Reynolds
DH - Cutch?

Is it me or do the upper minors seem kind of barren right now?
You're forgetting two of our best players, Palacious and Andujar.
 

BusinessGoose

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You're forgetting two of our best players, Palacious and Andujar.
Yeah i think the team is in a pretty good spot with the pipeline as well as being able to construct MLB rosters right now.

I mean, as good a spot as any over the last 8 years lol

Being less than 10 out of a wildcard/away from .500 is pretty good stuff.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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Last night almost definitely killed the Reds WC hopes, but slamming the door on a sweep today can really put an exclamation point on it.

For those keeping track, we've also settled into a pretty comfortable window for the 2024 draft lottery, since barring a huge hot or cold streak in the final 7 games, we're likely to end up 8-12th headed into it. The odds make it likely to stay in that range no matter what, but we might get dumb luck to hop up closer to the top-5. It's hard to fully say yet, but the other possibility is that our comp round pick may allow us some slight buying power to pressure the handful of teams ahead of us, especially since some of them, such as WAS, LAA, and NYM, don't receive any comp pick, which could give us enough of a pool to leapfrog them if we want to.

I fully expect the Cardinals to end up with pick 1.1 and draft a true phenom. Based on the little I know of the draft, the college crop is very solid, but there will be plenty of time to sort this out later. I'd love a shot to get Skenes teammate Tommy White, who is maybe someone that could be drafted at a comfortable slot in this position since he seems ticketed for first base. You never draft for need, but if he's showing good patience and contact, it could be the right fit, especially in the 8-12 range. Even if he continues to rake, it's very unlikely a top-5 team drafts a 1B prospect. There are also a bunch of college arms (as of now) if we want to run it back in that direction too.
 

Gallatin

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I think on balance, what Palacios has done in a part-time role is pretty hard to ignore. There might be a broader argument that a decent 4th OF option should not have a lockdown spot on the 40-man when you need better consistency from the CF and RF spots, but I think we also have to face the reality that both Suwinski and Davis are vital to the immediate success of the team, and so there's no way we're paying for a free agent to displace one of them from a starting role.

That's long-winded and not meant as an insult to Palacios. I think he brings the speed, energy, and passable defense that you want in an all around 4th OF, with the pinch hitting stuff being a major boon as well. I have him penciled in to keeping a roster spot and a 40-man spot.

Andujar is a tougher sell for me. He's been really consistent, but the roster flexibility is going to be tricky already with all of Joe, Cutch, and Davis. I guess there's more ABs to go around if Joe primarily backs up and/or plays 1B, but I think we need an external 1B which makes it tighter. I think it could be worth trying to keep him around as ST competition and depth, but he's also making a not-insignificant salary when it comes to squeezing every dollar possible for pitching and other upgrades. Realistically, I doubt he keeps his 40-man spot, but if he doesn't go claimed (seems like a tossup), then I like having him in the mix to push the others around him, including any young player like Gonzales or Peguero who could be taking that spot.
Andujar ever try 1B?

The offense needs to improve and I think they could stand to bring someone external in, but there aren't a ton of options out there in FA that I've seen. I think this is where the lack of a commitment beyond 2023 comes back to bite you, because any modest steps forward now again need to be supplemented.

To give an example, someone who wouldn't have been too expensive or entailed that much risk to bring in last year is Brandon Drury. He signed for 2 years, 17 million, after most people seemed to think he'd only get one guaranteed year. For 8.5/year, he's had a great first year, hitting for solid average with solid power and defense at 1B and 2B. I think the Connor Joe trade was actually fine for what it was, and he's given solid enough production for someone who isn't a full time player, but a guy like Drury would be an enormous upgrade over that -- nearly double the power and the ability to play some 2B as well.

I don't want to stay laser-focused on Drury, but maybe if the Angels end up trading Trout, they'll be in full fire sale mode and he can be a target.

In any case, the engine for a lot of improvement has to be Cruz. If he's producing and Hayes's breakthrough is mostly real, then with Reynolds you have the start of a solid group. If they are going to address the offense with an outside player, then I think you have to look at some trade options. Maybe there's an outside chance of Hoskins or something at 1B, but the Phillies could end up giving him a QO which would mean we'd give up our second pick if we signed him (aka, it's not happening).
I'm highly focused on trades for 1B & that mid- rotation starter. Get the other starter in FA.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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I think he's played 1B a small handful of times, not sure about the minors. To me, it'd be worth broaching with him in a conversation for next year's role, though I wonder how things will unfold. From his perspective, he's been given some minor looks and I guess he's playing a fair bit now in some kind of audition for next year, but otherwise it's mostly been the same situation for him since coming over.

From the Pirates, I think they need to look bigger than Andujar, even in terms of a part-time role, which is why I'm hesitant to even pencil him into maintaining a 40-man roster spot at the moment. I think it's worth doing so if possible, since you never know what might happen between now and spring training, and Andujar has flashed the tools and a high degree of success in MLB before, so it's not out of the question that he'd have a very productive MLB season or two at some point.

In general, I think trading is going to be the place we can bring in some upgrades for next year. I have trouble seeing even modest spending on pitching in free agency, but I hope I am wrong. Montgomery is going to get a huge haul, especially if he performs in the playoffs, but if we could land him on a Walker/Taillon type deal (which would blow other Pirates FA deals out of the water), that would be amazing. It'd be worth going over that, too, and the payroll "flexibility" should be present to have a very highly paid pitcher who would kind of chance the equation. I think Giolito will be less sought after but still accomplish something similar, as having 3 guys who can cover 180 innings will have some trickle effects.

For me, if Chicago wanted to move on from Cease and was interested in Suwinski as a high ceiling starting point of a return, I'd be willing to go down that road. Cease can be very volatile, but I think he's still capable of the FOR-type performance and he's about to finish up a third straight season of shouldering a lot of innings. I think a lot of people have soured on Suwinski (myself included), but he's still somewhat risky to trade, because if he can have everything start to click, he goes from nice enough strong side platoon player to a genuine constant threat. It's so hard to figure out what direction Chicago is headed in, but off the top of my head, this is the biggest swing that could be possible for the team in terms of a trade. Much more likely that it will need to be a more minor deal.

Maybe the Mets would be willing to trade Quintana if they truly want to take a step back financially next year, but their direction is also a little bit hard to figure out.
 
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ChaosAgent

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Are the Tigers still thinking of selling? I’d pay an arm and a leg to bring in Skubal if the Tigers are still considering selling.

I feel like the Tigers are going to try to compete.

The package for Skubal would have to be something stupid, like Cruz straight up or Johnson + Davis.

I'd still consider it. Skubal is an absolute ace.
 

DJ Spinoza

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The AL Central is about as goofy as the NL Central, in the sense that it should be pretty wide open for most of the teams to compete. IMO the White Sox are in the worst position in terms of contracts expiring and a barren farm system. Detroit has always been willing to spend when they think they can start to compete again, so my guess would be that they see Skubal and Torkelson as players to build the next contender around.

The Royals are another team who is a little bit hard to figure out, but might make for a good prospect for prospect or young player for young player trade. I like Daniel Lynch as a change of scenery candidate, though he's obviously not in the same tier as any name like Skubal, Cease, Giolito, Montgomery etc.

Trading is also somewhat of a risky proposition when the team core isn't fully set. I have a hard time thinking we'd trade any of Reynolds, Hayes, Cruz, Davis, or Endy, but obviously the last three have questions about them, and Hayes will need to answer the offensive bell for a full season (even if not quite at the crazy level he has since returning this year). I'm not sure we're in a position to cavalierly move a Suwinski, Gonzales, or someone else, but that's probably the starting point for any kind of medium-impact trade or more.

I think the easiest thing is to actually spend significantly on a pitcher, but I'd be floored if we did that based on ally past indicators. But I'll still point out until I am blue in the face that there's room to pay a pitcher 15-20M per year and also extend Keller and even give Skenes the Hunter Greene contract and still not end up that close to 90-100M, which should be the floor expectation for any team serious about contending. I think they are gonna try and do it with 60-70M, and that isn't going to work.
 

Gallatin

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The AL Central is about as goofy as the NL Central, in the sense that it should be pretty wide open for most of the teams to compete. IMO the White Sox are in the worst position in terms of contracts expiring and a barren farm system. Detroit has always been willing to spend when they think they can start to compete again, so my guess would be that they see Skubal and Torkelson as players to build the next contender around.

The Royals are another team who is a little bit hard to figure out, but might make for a good prospect for prospect or young player for young player trade. I like Daniel Lynch as a change of scenery candidate, though he's obviously not in the same tier as any name like Skubal, Cease, Giolito, Montgomery etc.

Trading is also somewhat of a risky proposition when the team core isn't fully set. I have a hard time thinking we'd trade any of Reynolds, Hayes, Cruz, Davis, or Endy, but obviously the last three have questions about them, and Hayes will need to answer the offensive bell for a full season (even if not quite at the crazy level he has since returning this year). I'm not sure we're in a position to cavalierly move a Suwinski, Gonzales, or someone else, but that's probably the starting point for any kind of medium-impact trade or more.

I think the easiest thing is to actually spend significantly on a pitcher, but I'd be floored if we did that based on ally past indicators. But I'll still point out until I am blue in the face that there's room to pay a pitcher 15-20M per year and also extend Keller and even give Skenes the Hunter Greene contract and still not end up that close to 90-100M, which should be the floor expectation for any team serious about contending. I think they are gonna try and do it with 60-70M, and that isn't going to work.
I'm looking for a deal like we did with San Diego when we gave up Musgrove for prospects, only in reverse this time.
 

Empoleon8771

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I don't want to say the word but Keller is doing stuff in the Pirates-Phillies game right now.

Too bad the offense can't give him any support.

Edit: lol the no-hitter got broken up literally the batter after I made this post. Marsh HR makes it 1-0 Phillies.
 
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sovietsanta87

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Keller throws a pitch 88 mph. Calls out the trainer. They look at his elbow. They keep him in the game. Next pitch is 91 down middle. Home run. Pitches after that are low 90’s. Remind me…how many games do we need to win in order to make the playoffs? Oh wait this game is meaningless

i hate Shelton
 
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