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This is not a thread to discuss Ovechkin's political positions. This is your warning.
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This is not a thread to discuss Ovechkin's political positions. This is your warning.
There is zero argument to be made for OV in that regard. Don’t worry, OV will go down as the greatest goal scorer. His spot is safe. You don’t have to shoehorn him into the top 5 to ‘respect him’ and you don’t have to make Mario look like a guy who can’t hold Gretzky’s jockstrap.
Yep. Haters hate his top 3 hardware conquered in the toughest worldwide pool ever, pretending that means nothing.As OV climbs toward 895 we should be on alert for serious debates about a ‘big 5’
Did I miss anything fam?
Did I miss anything fam?
OV is the greatest player ever cause goals are the only thing that matter.
People who don’t understand that there are more assists than goals in a game don’t understand the value of goals.
As OV climbs toward 895 we should be on alert for serious debates about a ‘big 5’
Did I miss anything fam?
What was Lemieux weakness? Besides cancer?Yeah you missed the part where you asserted that Ovie can't be part of a big 5 because that would indicate 5 players were all on the same level, except nobody else is on Wayne's level, so you kinda made no sense there.
Anyway, there is no "big 4" because Lemieux and Orr are massively overrated and have no business being put on a level with Gretzky. They both have massive gaping weaknesses on their resumes. Not so for Howe and Gretzky.
What was Lemieux weakness? Besides cancer?
Yeah you missed the part where you asserted that Ovie can't be part of a big 5 because that would indicate 5 players were all on the same level, except nobody else is on Wayne's level, so you kinda made no sense there.
Anyway, there is no "big 4" because Lemieux and Orr are massively overrated and have no business being put on a level with Gretzky. They both have massive gaping weaknesses on their resumes. Not so for Howe and Gretzky.
A very interesting opinion! How come are Bobby Orr and Mario Lemieux overrated?
I think they were as good as Gretzky (if not better)
Lemieux missed 22 games with cancer.
The other games he missed were primarily due to a bad back, and many were simply due to him being a quitter. Clearly, durability was a huge weakness for Lemieux.
Quitting is an obvious weakness. Poor leadership was also a huge weakness for Lemieux - one that Jagr inherited. You realize that the Pens traded away a hall of fame defenseman at the beginning of his prime (Zubov) for a washed-up player in return, all because Mario was pissed that Zubov didn't pass him the puck enough on the power play, right?
Lemieux missed 22 games with cancer.
The other games he missed were primarily due to a bad back, and many were simply due to him being a quitter. Clearly, durability was a huge weakness for Lemieux.
Quitting is an obvious weakness. Poor leadership was also a huge weakness for Lemieux - one that Jagr inherited. You realize that the Pens traded away a hall of fame defenseman at the beginning of his prime (Zubov) for a washed-up player in return, all because Mario was pissed that Zubov didn't pass him the puck enough on the power play, right?
At the moment, Ovechkin is one of that group of players who have an argument for #5 all-time. Whoever your opponent picks as #5, it is always possible to say "Ovechkin is better or at least as good because..."
Ovechkin's legend is guaranteed to grow with time, just as Jagr's legend is growing. The longer Ovechkin spends without a heir who would in turn win 7-9 Rockets and challenge the career goals record, the greater is going to be the awe of future generations for what Ovechkin did.
It is possible, especially if Ovechkin adds to his resume and no one else emerges as a dominant force, that at some point of time Ovechkin will become a very common pick for #5 all-time. That would be the moment when Big 4 will turn into Big 5.
And no, it will not require an argument for Ovechkin>Lemieux or Ovechkin>Howe (even though I dread that future generations will make the latter argument - wrongly, but Howe does not get the respect he deserves even today).
That's nuts.
Gretzky was league MVP 9 times. Lemieux and Orr each won that 3 times.
Orr played half a career. Gretzky was superior to Orr for as many games as Orr played, and had another hall of fame career after that.
I don't know what kind of rationale makes these players equal. It is unfathomable to me.
But you can make an equally good argument for Crosby at 5 as Ovechkin? So I don't see your point here?
How do you know Ovechkins legend will grow any more than Crosbys?
Breaking the league's career goals record might have that effect.
Just a hunch.
Yes, but I mean Ovechkin could break his leg in the game today and never play another game. Or regress so that it takes 9 seasons to get those final goals. We just don't know what the future holds.
Sure, there are variables that could impact either player.
But between the two of them, the one whose legend has the potential to grow more is undoubtedly Ovechkin.
What can Crosby do to top it, outside of winning every Hart trophy from now until retirement?
Lemieux was always injured. It wasn't just cancer. His conditioning was terrible. There's luck that goes into injuries, but it was partially his own fault. He had a dominant '96 season post-cancer, it was the back injuries that really forced him to retire.What was Lemieux weakness? Besides cancer?
Funny then that despite all of Lemieuxs "poor leadership" he still led his team to TWO Stanley cups...
I think you consider Ovechkin as a pretty good leader, yet he has only been able to lead his team past the 2nd round once. Leadership?