Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2023-24

[Spurgeon]

This Matthews situation is why I'm nervous about Kaprizov's contract.

Wouldn’t have minded if they initially tried to lock him up to $10-11M x 8 instead of the $9M x 5 contract he got. Especially when it seemed their minds were made up on moving Fiala.

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Anyone think Tarasenko could be a potential Zucc replacement next season? Wouldn’t want to give him anything longer than 3 years, but I’d be interested to see how he’d perform with Kaprizov. Could make a Kap - Khus - Tarasenko top line

Although my #1 target for next offseason is still Lindholm

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Wouldn’t have minded if they initially tried to lock him up to $10-11M x 8 instead of the $9M x 5 contract he got. Especially when it seemed their minds were made up on moving Fiala.

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Anyone think Tarasenko could be a potential Zucc replacement next season? Wouldn’t want to give him anything longer than 3 years, but I’d be interested to see how he’d perform with Kaprizov. Could make a Kap - Khus - Tarasenko top line

Although my #1 target for next offseason is still Lindholm

The all Russian line could be exciting. For the right price I wouldn’t complain too much.

 

[BagHead]

Wouldn’t have minded if they initially tried to lock him up to $10-11M x 8 instead of the $9M x 5 contract he got. Especially when it seemed their minds were made up on moving Fiala.

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Anyone think Tarasenko could be a potential Zucc replacement next season? Wouldn’t want to give him anything longer than 3 years, but I’d be interested to see how he’d perform with Kaprizov. Could make a Kap - Khus - Tarasenko top line

Although my #1 target for next offseason is still Lindholm

I think I'd prefer to go after a center with the freed up cap space, if one's available. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind so long as he's not expensive and has short term. He'll be a 32 year old scorer with an injury history whose production took a notable dive last year. Past experience tells me that he's got probably 2-3 years left before his production drops off completely. I just wouldn't pay much for that, nor keep it around for too long.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Although my #1 target for next offseason is still Lindholm

If we are gonna go after Lindholm, we should do it this offseason. We have the assets to make a trade and his cap hit is low enough to fit reasonably well as long as we send cap back (Foligno).

 

[Spurgeon]

I think I'd prefer to go after a center with the freed up cap space, if one's available. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind so long as he's not expensive and has short term. He'll be a 32 year old scorer with an injury history whose production took a notable dive last year. Past experience tells me that he's got probably 2-3 years left before his production drops off completely. I just wouldn't pay much for that, nor keep it around for too long.

They technically have enough to go after both. I would prefer a center more than anything. Still, there’s going to be right around $16-17M available to fill in 2-3 spots assuming a roster like this:

Kap - Khus ($950K) - X
Johansson - Ek - Boldy
Beckman ($800K) - Rossi - X
Dewar ($1.5M) - Gaudreau - Duhaime ($1.5M)

Brodin - Spurgeon
Middleton - Faber
Hunt - Addison ($1.2M)
Merrill

Gus ($3.5M)
Wall

Obviously going to need to save some money for extensions on Faber, Rossi, and Wallstedt. However, they still have a ton of money to work with. Hoping Guerin uses it wisely.

If we are gonna go after Lindholm, we should do it this offseason. We have the assets to make a trade and his cap hit is low enough to fit reasonably well as long as we send cap back (Foligno).

Yeah I wouldn’t mind this if they can work an extension out with Lindholm beforehand. I just don’t see Guerin trading Foligno. Im worried he’s going to end up extending both him and Zucc at $8-10M.

Hopefully he realizes we’ve got a ton of prospects that we need to start filtering in here & it’d be much better to utilize this cap on long-term improvements to the team. Going to really be the first time Guerin has money to throw around.

 

[AKL]

We need to wait until our core group of prospects are established NHL players and see what we actually need before we go out trying to find the UFAs and trade candidates we think we need. Otherwise the next decade is going to be no different than the last decade. Build through the draft, supplement with trades and free agents.

 

[Webster]

I believe the Wild would like to re-sign Zuccarello. But with 70 points in the last couple of seasons, his experience and leadership, he's a wanted guy out there. Can't leave too much on Guerin's table. But nothing will happen anyway until the Gus deal is done.

 

[TaLoN]

We need to wait until our core group of prospects are established NHL players and see what we actually need before we go out trying to find the UFAs and trade candidates we think we need. Otherwise the next decade is going to be no different than the last decade. Build through the draft, supplement with trades and free agents.

Who would you define as the core group of prospects?
The lack of blue chip guys muddy those waters IMO.

 

[57special]

Who would you define as the core group of prospects?
The lack of blue chip guys muddy those waters IMO.

To me, it's Rossi, Ohgren, Yurov, Marat, Wall, Faber.

I think that guys like Peart, Heidt, Stramel, Milne and at least one other Dman will also be part of the team at some point, too. TBD how important a part of the team.

Bankier, Beckman, Masters are intriguing long shots.

Walker is a fill in, for now.

 

[Circulartheory]

To me, it's Rossi, Ohgren, Yurov, Marat, Wall, Faber.

I think that guys like Peart, Heidt, Stramel, Milne and at least one other Dman will also be part of the team at some point, too. TBD how important a part of the team.

Bankier, Beckman, Masters are intriguing long shots.

Walker is a fill in, for now.

Mostly agree. I'll even expand my own definitions by saying "Key, Core, Depth" tiers.

Key (disappointment if they do not become top six forwards, top four dmen)
- Ohgren, Yurov, Wallstedt, Faber, Rossi

Core (positively impact players but not relied on as key - think Middleton, Foligno, Gaudreau - disappointment if they don't become an NHL regular)
- Stramel, Lambos, Peart, Spacek (i'm a fan), Khusnutdinov

Depth (hope they can contribute as depth players, not surprised if some don't make it)
- Hunt, Bankier, Kumpulainen, Heidt, Haight, Lorenz, Milne, Beckman, Walker

While we definitely lack the high-end offensive talent in our prospects, I still feel its nice to see 5 names under both key and core tiers in my own grading. I still remember when our top 5 prospects were Mikael Granlund, Marco Scandella, Casey Wellman, Tyler Cuma, Matt Hackett, Colton Gillies. If translated into today, it would mean we only have 1 key prospect in the group. Rest are 'core' - but gives me pause as well, perhaps only 1 in Stramel/Lambos group is going to be an NHLer.

 

[AKL]

Who would you define as the core group of prospects?
The lack of blue chip guys muddy those waters IMO.

It's the upper tiers of prospects you expect to play towards the top of your lineup (top 6/top 4), the guys that you'd prioritize keeping on longer term deals (4-5+ years). The fact that there aren't (m)any bluechip guys is a GM failure, but it's a different conversation.

Boldy (not a prospect but a graduated part of that core), Rossi, Yurov, Khusnutdinov, Ohgren, Lambos, Faber, Wallstedt. Maybe Stramel if you believe he has that top six potential. I'm undecided on him.

 

[Digitalbooya]

It's the upper tiers of prospects you expect to play towards the top of your lineup (top 6/top 4), the guys that you'd prioritize keeping on longer term deals (4-5+ years). The fact that there aren't (m)any bluechip guys is a GM failure, but it's a different conversation.

Boldy (not a prospect but a graduated part of that core), Rossi, Yurov, Khusnutdinov, Ohgren, Lambos, Faber, Wallstedt. Maybe Stramel if you believe he has that top six potential. I'm undecided on him.

I have blue chippers as Wallstedt and Yurov. Both fell for different reasons (position + nationality). How many blue chip guys did they pass on outside of the 2020 draft? We don't have a lot of blue chip prospects because we have consistently been a playoff team. I would not call that a GM failure per say.

 

[AKL]

I have blue chippers as Wallstedt and Yurov. Both fell for different reasons (position + nationality). How many blue chip guys did they pass on outside of the 2020 draft? We don't have a lot of blue chip prospects because we have consistently been a playoff team. I would not call that a GM failure per say.

To me, blue chip guys are can't miss first line or top pairing players, so as much as I like Yurov, I wouldn't call him a blue chip. My standards for that are very high.

We're going to see how much not having those guys matters. I've talked about this ad nauseum here, and I'm not interested in another conversation about the merits of tanking for better picks or any other way to acquire better picks/prospects. The fact of the matter is we don't have those guys, while other teams do focus on trying to get them. We're going to see how that works for us (again) over the next decade or so. We'll find out if trying for those first round exits the last few years is a sound strategy or not.

 

[Wabit]

We need to wait until our core group of prospects are established NHL players and see what we actually need before we go out trying to find the UFAs and trade candidates we think we need. Otherwise the next decade is going to be no different than the last decade. Build through the draft, supplement with trades and free agents.

If there is a top-6 center or top pair d-man I'm getting them and not waiting in the hope that the prospects turn into anything. I'll wait on wingers and non-top pair d-men because the prospect pool has that in spades.

 

[Digitalbooya]

To me, blue chip guys are can't miss first line or top pairing players, so as much as I like Yurov, I wouldn't call him a blue chip. My standards for that are very high.

We're going to see how much not having those guys matters. I've talked about this ad nauseum here, and I'm not interested in another conversation about the merits of tanking for better picks or any other way to acquire better picks/prospects. The fact of the matter is we don't have those guys, while other teams do focus on trying to get them. We're going to see how that works for us (again) over the next decade or so. We'll find out if trying for those first round exits the last few years is a sound strategy or not.

I must be high on Yurov. I think he will be a top line player. But to each their own.

I agree for the most part. I think our issue has been more along the lines of we haven't drafted quality centers and it would be nice to get a top pair guy as well. We can find quality wingers and bottom 4 defenders every season. That's why I wasn't that bothered by the Wild passing on Perreault at the draft.

This organization has proven that it can win, to a certain extent, with a sub par center group and a small defense that lacks top pair guys. We do not necessarily need a McDavid, but a couple of centers like Eriksson Ek and exchanging out a couple of defenders for bigger guys that can still play will do wonders for this team. Lindholm would be good. Hanifin could be good too. Just to name a couple guys we could target.

 

[AKL]

I must be high on Yurov. I think he will be a top line player. But to each their own.

I love Yurov, I think he's our best prospect outside of Wallstedt, and the only one with real star potential, I just don't feel comfortable calling him a can't miss first liner. I don't think he's proven a consistent track record in places where you want guys to prove that. Not necessarily through any fault of his own either, he's not getting playing time in the KHL, the MHL might as well be US High School for how much I care about that league, and he hasn't played in an international tournament against peers in 2.5 years.

I do think he can be a first liner, I'll be disappointed if he's not, I'm just not convinced he's a can't miss first liner yet. Like I said though, my standard for being a blue chipper is very high.

 

[Spurgeon]

We need to wait until our core group of prospects are established NHL players and see what we actually need before we go out trying to find the UFAs and trade candidates we think we need. Otherwise the next decade is going to be no different than the last decade. Build through the draft, supplement with trades and free agents.

I think that’d be a mistake with Kaprizov’s expiring contract. They need to take advantage of the 24-25 and 25-26 seasons when they’ve got these batch of prospects on ELCs + a ton of cap to sign UFAs. You need to be proactive rather than reactive to build a team capable of winning the Cup.

Identify UFAs that you know will have a positive impact on the team and sign them. It’s an easy decision to try to bring in a guy like Lindholm. The trickier decision is do you attempt to sign someone like Hanifin when you’ve got a lot of LD prospects with uncertain trajectories?

All I know is that Guerin can’t be bringing back guys like Zucc and Foligno.

 

[AKL]

I think that’d be a mistake with Kaprizov’s expiring contract. They need to take advantage of the 24-25 and 25-26 seasons when they’ve got these batch of prospects on ELCs + a ton of cap to sign UFAs. You need to be proactive rather than reactive to build a team capable of winning the Cup.

Identify UFAs that you know will have a positive impact on the team and sign them. It’s an easy decision to try to bring in a guy like Lindholm. The trickier decision is do you attempt to sign someone like Hanifin when you’ve got a lot of LD prospects with uncertain trajectories?

All I know is that Guerin can’t be bringing back guys like Zucc and Foligno.

You don't even know what those prospects will look like yet, if they're even on the team, and you're trying to go all in on two years with them in their rookie/sophomore seasons?

We're watching this cautionary tale with expecting too much too soon from these prospects in real time right now, everyone on this board thought Rossi would be a top six center by now, almost everyone thought Addison would have a regular spot in the lineup, a few years ago most thought Beckman would be a regular by now, a lot of people thought Greenway had more to give prior to this season, we watched Eriksson Ek take 5 years from the time he stepped on NHL ice to develop into a top six forward, and even then there were still questions about whether he's an actual top six forward or not.

Why are we continuing to assume this current batch of guys is going to come over the next two years and be impact players immediately? It could take these guys 3-5 years to really start making an impact in the way we need them to.

 

[Spurgeon]

You don't even know what those prospects will look like yet, if they're even on the team, and you're trying to go all in on two years with them in their rookie/sophomore seasons?

I mean if this current roster can make the playoffs with $15M in dead cap, then I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t try to make a run in the 24-25 and 25-26 seasons. Not attempting to make a run before Kaprizov’s contract expires feels like it’d be a mistake to me. You’ve only got a limited amount of years left of Brodin + Spurgeon as well.

If this prospect pool is supposedly as deep as it’s touted to be, then this team should have at least a few ELC guys that can be impact players in those seasons.

 

[AKL]

I mean if this current roster can make the playoffs with $15M in dead cap, then I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t try to make a run in the 24-25 and 25-26 seasons. Not attempting to make a run before Kaprizov’s contract expires feels like it’d be a mistake to me.

This has nothing to do with the prospect pool. If you think the roster as structured can make a run by adding Lindholm (questionable, as Calgary couldn't even make the playoffs this year with him as their top center, but who knows), that's irrelevant to the prospects.

If this prospect pool is supposedly as deep as it’s touted to be, then this team should have at least a few ELC guys that can be impact players in those seasons.

That's not how that works at all. Look at what Boldy did on his ELC and understand that none of these guys are even remotely close to Boldy in terms of ability or NHL toolkits. Look at the guys who made an impact on their ELC last season. Stutzle, Cozens, Zegras, Boldy, Beniers, Mercer... We don't have anyone like those guys.

 

[Spurgeon]

Why are we continuing to assume this current batch of guys is going to come over the next two years and be impact players immediately? It could take these guys 3-5 years to really start making an impact in the way we need them to.

Because we have 15 of them instead of 5 of them.

This has nothing to do with the prospect pool. If you think the roster as structured can make a run by adding Lindholm (questionable, as Calgary couldn't even make the playoffs this year with him as their top center, but who knows), that's irrelevant to the prospects.


That's not how that works at all. Look at what Boldy did on his ELC and understand that none of these guys are even remotely close to Boldy in terms of ability or NHL toolkits.

A team wins the Cup with opportunistic goaltending and favorable cap situations. You simply can’t wait until you’ve identified all of your top prospects because then you’re paying them for that performance. Guerin has had 4 years to build this pool, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that there’s significant contributors coming from that pool in years 6-7.

 

[AKL]

Because we have 15 of them instead of 5 of them.


A team wins the Cup with opportunistic goaltending and favorable cap situations. You simply can’t wait until you’ve identified all of your top prospects because then you’re paying them for that performance. Guerin has had 4 years to build this pool, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that there’s significant contributors coming from that pool in years 6-7.

Yeah, years 6-7. What that looks like is:

Rossi/Khusnutdinov: 2027
Wallstedt/Lambos: 2028
Ohgren/Yurov: 2029

None of those are 2025.

 

[Wabit]

You don't even know what those prospects will look like yet, if they're even on the team, and you're trying to go all in on two years with them in their rookie/sophomore seasons?

We're watching this cautionary tale with expecting too much too soon from these prospects in real time right now, everyone on this board thought Rossi would be a top six center by now, almost everyone thought Addison would have a regular spot in the lineup, a few years ago most thought Beckman would be a regular by now, a lot of people thought Greenway had more to give prior to this season, we watched Eriksson Ek take 5 years from the time he stepped on NHL ice to develop into a top six forward, and even then there were still questions about whether he's an actual top six forward or not.

Why are we continuing to assume this current batch of guys is going to come over the next two years and be impact players immediately? It could take these guys 3-5 years to really start making an impact in the way we need them to.

Don't include me in those everybody statements.

I'm low on prospects in general, it's why I'd rather add/keep top of the lineup players whenever possible. Prospects can fill in the bottom of the lineup spots instead of overpaying vets to fill those spots.

 

[Spurgeon]

Yeah, years 6-7. What that looks like is:

Rossi/Khusnutdinov: 2027
Wallstedt/Lambos: 2028
Ohgren/Yurov: 2029

None of those are 2025.

Guerin has had the 19-20, 20-21, 21-22, and 22-23 seasons. I’m not saying 6-7 years for a prospect to develop. I’m saying 6-7 years of him drafting players and building a pool of players that can be impactful.

 

[Wabit]

Because we have 15 of them instead of 5 of them.


A team wins the Cup with opportunistic goaltending and favorable cap situations. You simply can’t wait until you’ve identified all of your top prospects because then you’re paying them for that performance. Guerin has had 4 years to build this pool, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that there’s significant contributors coming from that pool in years 6-7.

Players are waiver eligible after 5 years; that's 2 slide years and 3 ELC years. It's a fine development path for non-top 45(ish) picks. It's a horrible development path for top 45 (ish) picks. If it's a top-10 pick they should be almost fulltime in the NHL in their 2nd ELC year.