How do Kings earn back your money?

Who needs to go to earn back your money?


  • Total voters
    61

Brownie to Pancakes

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The fact that she's the most common topic in a thread about the myriad dysfunctions of the org is not because her (few) comments reinforced the frustrating posture of the team and media apparatus, it's because meatheads like to pile on chicks. If she didn't cut her hair I bet the forum Cialis brigade would be defending her
 

King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
Jul 1, 2003
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Yes--the serious posts point that out as one of the things. no one has posted that as their sole issue, and most point it out as a symptom of bigger issues.

Anyone taking the shallow driveby remarks as serious substantial remarks is either being dishonest or f***ing stupid. This forum knows better. It just allows people to tee off and distract from the meat of the discussion.
Or, how about this? We're calling out the stupid posts that detract from the well-thought out points, even if we disagree.

All of us, you included, get baited with bullshit from people in these forums. Calling people dishonest of f***ing stupid for addressing it or calling out the ridiculousness is pretty nervy and hypocritical.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
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Or, how about this? We're calling out the stupid posts that detract from the well-thought out points, even if we disagree.

All of us, you included, get baited with bullshit from people in these forums. Calling people dishonest of f***ing stupid for addressing it or calling out the ridiculousness is pretty nervy and hypocritical.

Not in the slightest because people have zero problem teeing off on my posts when I'm full of shit and I'm fine with that and have worked to be more and more fine with it over time.

I don't like having my argument reduced to 'huh huh blondie' because a few posters intentionally or not are unable to connect symptoms to disease.

I would think you of all people would be understanding given you want your work to stand independently of someone that others dislike but for whatever reason you feel the need to stand up for intellectual dishonesty so if you want to catch some more strays keep at it.
 

Schmooley

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Apr 5, 2016
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, it's because meatheads like to pile on chicks.
The poll in this thread is about firing a bunch of men that we tee off on constantly. The Mayor is getting piled on all over this board people calling him mayor mccheese.
She gets no more than everyone else why you so sensitive?
 

King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
Jul 1, 2003
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Not in the slightest because people have zero problem teeing off on my posts when I'm full of shit and I'm fine with that and have worked to be more and more fine with it over time.

I don't like having my argument reduced to 'huh huh blondie' because a few posters intentionally or not are unable to connect symptoms to disease.

I would think you of all people would be understanding given you want your work to stand independently of someone that others dislike but for whatever reason you feel the need to stand up for intellectual dishonesty so if you want to catch some more strays keep at it.
If you want to point out where anyone has batched your thoughts with dumb shit we're addressing, have at it. If you want to accuse me of defending inellectual dishonesty you can back it up or back the f*** off. Because every day I read all the comments about Hoven and intermittently interject but don't assume any of it is directed specifically to me, even though I've had snide bullshit remarks thrown at me in the past. It's minimal effort to realize that perhaps the comments aren't specific to your points.
 
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Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
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If you want to point out where anyone has batched your thoughts with dumb shit we're addressing, have at it. If you want to accuse me of defending inellectual dishonesty you can back it up or back the f*** off. Because every day I read all the comments about Hoven and intermittently interject but don't assume any of it is directed specifically to me, even though I've had snide bullshit remarks thrown at me in the past. It's minimal effort to realize that perhaps the comments aren't specific to your points.

The intellectual dishonesty is the reduction of the argument. For some reason, you feel the need to champion it, say it's okay. If not, there's really no need for you to be arguing with me, is there? You don't need to pick up the shoe and wear it, but for some reason you keep trying it on.

Whether the gun is pointed directly at me or not is immaterial, since I can't further the point when people are intentionally sewering it every other post.

Regardless later on I'll post a nice, thorough post of what the Kings should do to earn my money, and I'll bulletpoint it nicely so it won't be hard to understand, and people can't make dishonest digressions that you oddly feel the need to defend.
 

Brownie to Pancakes

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The poll in this thread is about firing a bunch of men that we tee off on constantly. The Mayor is getting piled on all over this board people calling him mayor mccheese.
She gets no more than everyone else why you so sensitive?
I went back to the beginning of the thread, 22 posts over the first two pages are about her, and that's not including the few in her defense. I stopped there. It's just so goofy you guys
 
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King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
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Edit: removed last comment as the request to take it to PM. Not going to keep something up that can't be responded to in the thread.
 
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bland

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Jul 1, 2004
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I went back to the beginning of the thread, 22 posts over the first two pages are about her, and that's not including the few in her defense. I stopped there. It's just so goofy you guys
No, it isn't.

It's about a person who is employed by the team's broadcasting partner choosing to represent the team in a manner that insults the RIGHTFULLY angry fans while telling one of the few non-forum blue colored glass wearing members of the "media" to take down a factually correct critical tweet during a time in which fan frustration was at an all-time high in a venue specifically created to share those feelings.

Its unacceptable and should have repercussions.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
62,270
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What the Kings need to do before I spend another cent on this team

non negotiables:

--ditch the 1-3-1
Defensive hockey doesn't have to be boring. And of course it's less boring when you're winning. But a passive system that's being used as one size fits all regardless of being embarrassingly picked apart needs to be gone. It's eye bleedingly bad, and an obvious hurdle to success, not to mention the personnel being used to support it don't match. The aggressive 1-2-2 employed in parts of the playoff games, with guys finishing checks hard and using their speed/tenacity is an example of a defensive system that matches AND is easy to root for.

--ditch the nepotism
Completely unimaginative hires and trades year after year, all related to 'who i've played with' and 'who my friends are.' And look, I get it--I work in a networked environment where relationships are great and I don't even hate the idea of Blake creating a system of folks who work well together; however, it's clear how they feel about boat rockers (see DL) and having a bunch of yes-men around isn't helpful. At least pretend you're going to interview/acquire players beyond your first-degree network, it will keep you honest.

*corollary: brisson clients. There's working with who you know and love and then there's...this. There's a major appearance of impropriety here and without auditing the insane connections over the Kings tenure (someone on twitter did it--hardcore doughty maybe?) one needs look no further than the Patches non-trade and his subsequent Brisson firing to see something is just amiss here.

--revamp development
not sure what I can say here that hasn't been said for years, but all our hypotheses about the Kings having no clue what to do with blue chip talent have come to fruition. The Clarke handling last year was totally unforgivable and an example of the 'we do things differently around here' thinking that is handicapping the org. And the constant flipflopping of centers-to-wings-and-back is insane. These guys are amazing at developing JAGs and placing late round picks--the Kings have more games played from draftees than most franchises. But their 1st-2nd round drafting success is horrendous in comparison and it's the blue chip/talented players that suffer here.

*corollary: revamp deployment. Heavily. Play the best players regardless of age. Let people make on the job mistakes.

--honest self-evaluation
and in this regard, I don't mean for the fans--i mean for themselves. for an org that relies so heavily on analytics, they sure seem to ignore them, and all other evaluations. like above-to some degree, I'm for outside the box thinking if you have a strong evaluation system in place to correct course if it isn't working. Instead, like all their other mistakes--they seem to be doubling down. Something I really appreciated about Blake's early tenure was that he didn't seem to adhere to sunk cost fallacy, but now it seems like they're all going 'we've gone so far down this road there's no turning back now.' There's no 'well this didn't work, let's adjust'. They just go harder at the problem. It's completely arrogant. They need a dissonant voice in the room to argue at the very least.

--be honest and open with the fans
what's the actual plan here? Are you scared to verbalize your vision? what are our metrics for a successful season--can't even commit to that? And when we don't even come close, when we have the worst playoff showing of this era, spit out some platitudes about improved regular season goals for and against? You'd think this is a shareholder/investor meeting.

--access/interaction/organizational arrogance
There is far too much insulation for a pro sports organization. These guys have put up walls to squelch criticism and are nonresponsive to feedback even if it's constructive--and that goes from the kings right on down to their team-controlled media. And even beyond the hiding--much like we don't want refs to insert themselves into the game--we don't need members of the org berating fans. And I'm not talking about the burner accounts saying f*** YOU JIM, I'm talking about the honest fans and coverage being told not to publish stats because they aren't flattering. That's some bullshit. To say nothing of their demeanor towards non-team-tangentially-employed media at conferences. They've unfortunately successfully whipped the fans into thinking it's totally normal to limit events, feedback, and even media to shape their own narratives.

--freeze ticket pricing
Speaking of arrogance, imagine objectively getting worse three years in a row and raising prices.

I've never not wanted to be at a Kings game until around January of this year. And unfortunately for me, AEG does not care about the on-ice product or fan treatment so long as they're making profits--which they are hand over fist. I would hope they would get in front of some of these leading indicators--team performance vs. age vs. assets--but they seem content to collect black hole revenue from corporate ticket holders and flyby fans while motherf***ing the die hards.


wants

--purple and gold
Is it really so hard to make these thirds easier to grab? I'd love them to be full time, not mad if theyre not, but making such a well-received (several actaully) jersey so hard to access is emblematic of the 'we'll tell you what you want' attitude.

--Blake, Luc et. al. gone.
YOu'll notice this isn't even a non negotiable for me. I actually vouched for Blake as a GM as some of you may remember. Good pedigree, good experience, well educated. I'd like to think based on some of the above that he could learn and adapt. BUT--I want them gone because i don't BELIEVE they'll adapt, it seems that they think they're smarter than any other front office in the league, and frankly Blake's tenures with this franchise--no matter how nice he seems to be as a human--are just bad juju at this point and I'm a superstitious hockey player. Him and this franchise's success are oil and water. But my bigger problem is with Luc, who I don't think EVER should have had any influence beyond being a charismatic public-facing cheerleader handshaker and baby kisser.

--Scouting/drafting staff to stay
I think these guys are, at absolute worst, above-average. I actually think they're good to great. I blame the post-draft development and deployment for the disconnect. the only team getting more out of later round picks is Dallas.



I actually tried to be succinct. There's definitely more. But I've never been more disgusted by the organization as a whole. I'm definitely not spending MORE money next season, it's really unbelievable that they're pushing prices up and that season-ending presser was the nail in the coffin for me. Just total delusion.
 

Brownie to Pancakes

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Jul 1, 2012
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No, it isn't.

It's about a person who is employed by the team's broadcasting partner choosing to represent the team in a manner that insults the RIGHTFULLY angry fans while telling one of the few non-forum blue colored glass wearing members of the "media" to take down a factually correct critical tweet during a time in which fan frustration was at an all-time high in a venue specifically created to share those feelings.

Its unacceptable and should have repercussions.
You're not gonna find any argument here that it wasn't an ill advised handful of comments. But the disciplinarians around here wanting their pound of flesh over it is such an overwrought bore, and the skeezy hairstyle advisers egging it on make for a deeply tacky and grimy vibe. I have a solution for both groups: just yell the frustration into your pillow
 

bland

Registered User
Jul 1, 2004
7,465
10,888
You're not gonna find any argument here that it wasn't an ill advised handful of comments. But the disciplinarians around here wanting their pound of flesh over it is such an overwrought bore, and the skeezy hairstyle advisers egging it on make for a deeply tacky and grimy vibe. I have a solution for both groups: just yell the frustration into your pillow
I have about a dozen or so people here blocked, so I can only assume that it's worse than it looks on my end.

Also, I expected this past year to be more of the same, and hated the PLD trade and all of its inevitable side effects from the get go. Those things didn't surprise me, so they didn't have the same "that shit ain't right" reaction that I had to those comments.
 

tny760

Registered User
Mar 12, 2017
19,857
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You're not gonna find any argument here that it wasn't an ill advised handful of comments. But the disciplinarians around here wanting their pound of flesh over it is such an overwrought bore, and the skeezy hairstyle advisers egging it on make for a deeply tacky and grimy vibe. I have a solution for both groups: just yell the frustration into your pillow
but my pillow doesn't talk back

usually
 

Sol

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Jun 30, 2017
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The fact that she's the most common topic in a thread about the myriad dysfunctions of the org is not because her (few) comments reinforced the frustrating posture of the team and media apparatus, it's because meatheads like to pile on chicks. If she didn't cut her hair I bet the forum Cialis brigade would be defending her
Are you implying that most the people on here are mad at her because she's a woman with a bad haircut? You really...really don't think it's because of her shitting on the fans through some of the worst hockey that got Todd fired... really? You don't think it's because we saw her shit on Russell Morgan on twitter?

Almost everyone on this forum except 1 or 2 people have an issue with her because of her haircut. Overall she's shit at her job because rather than say nothing like most people do, she attacked the fans who have every right to be pissed at the team. She made herself a target for no reason. The multiplying factor here isn't the fact that shes a woman, its the fact that she went out of her way to lie about the team and insult fans, the same way Blake did in a more professional way by acting like the Kings made progress despite being bounced one game quicker. The same way Luc smiled at the question from Kevin about "it sounds like you guys are doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

Carrlyn isn't great for the fans but the real problem with the organization is Blake and Luc. No one else matters.

I like you pancakes, but you're missing the plot on this take.
 
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kilowatt

the vibes are not immaculate
Jan 1, 2009
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Look I'm all for roasting management and players for how the past decade of Kings hockey has turned out, but members of the media and the broadcasting crew don't get paid enough to have a bunch of dorks like me rant about them on message boards. So f***ing weird you guys
 

Brownie to Pancakes

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Are you implying that most the people on here are mad at her because she's a woman with a bad haircut? You really...really don't think it's because of her shitting on the fans through some of the worst hockey that got Todd fired... really? You don't think it's because we saw her shit on Russell Morgan on twitter?

Almost everyone on this forum except 1 or 2 people have an issue with her because of her haircut. Overall she's shit at her job because rather than say nothing like most people do, she attacked the fans who have every right to be pissed at the team. She made herself a target for no reason. The multiplying factor here isn't the fact that shes a woman, its the fact that she went out of her way to lie about the team and insult fans, the same way Blake did in a more professional way by acting like the Kings made progress despite being bounced one game quicker. The same way Luc smiled at the question from Kevin about "it sounds like you guys are doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

Carrlyn isn't great for the fans but the real problem with the organization is Blake and Luc. No one else matters.

I like you pancakes, but you're missing the plot on this take.
Pillow is thataway

Anyway as for the material problems with the team, RJ covered them all exhaustively and I basically agree with all of it
 

SettlementRichie10

Registered User
May 6, 2012
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I’m generally one of the most diehard progressives on this forum, but I really disagree with the notion that people are shitting on Carrlyn just because she’s a woman. People shit on the Mayor way more.

She directly challenged fan backlash during an awful stretch of hockey. No one forced her to say anything. If you’re going to be a public figure and stake out a position on the internet, guess what, you’re going to catch heat for it.

I’m not familiar with her work nor do I follow her socials. For all intents and purposes, she seems like a perfectly acceptable human being. But again, internet discourse is a full contact sport. You open yourself up to criticism.
 
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BigKing

Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Mar 11, 2003
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I’m generally one of the most diehard progressives on this forum, but I really disagree with the notion that people are shitting on Carrlyn just because she’s a woman. People shit on the Mayor way more.

She directly challenged fan backlash during an awful stretch of hockey. No one forced her to say anything. If you’re going to be a public figure and stake out a position on the internet, guess what, you’re going to catch heat for it.

I’m not familiar with her work nor do I follow her socials. For all intents and purposes, she seems like a perfectly acceptable human being. But again, internet discourse is a full contact sport. You open yourself up to criticism.
Little bit of Column A, little bit of Column B.

In a male dominated profession, women will be scrutinized more. Bad male broadcasters are roasted but bad female ones are crucified. Rightly so in many cases but there is more heat thrown on them because they are bad and they must only be on the broadcast because they are a woman if they are indeed that bad. Leah Hextall, Cammi Granato way back in the day and whoever ESPN had on the Oilers/Kings playoff series just now come to mind.

There is also a meathead component to the Carrlyn thing. She isn't as hot as she was when she was scooping up ice in stretch pants and a sports bra but that is like 17 years ago so, sure, she got a hair cut. Outside of myself and a blessed few, most people don't look as good as they did 17 years ago. For longtime fans, there is definitely going to be a bit of "I liked you when you were captain of the Ice Girls v. telling me about hockey while having a short hair cut".

Agree that putting stuff out there opens you up to criticism, but she gets critiqued on her looks as well as what is deserved so it gets a bit uglier than it needs to be,

I mean, I think I'm the only one that ever criticizes Hoven's looks, except for maybe @Maynard. Now there is a mug only a mother could love, but is he getting grief for that?

It's just so easy to not pay attention to the broadcast outside of the actual game. Part of the reason why I love this place: full of Kings and hockey historians that don't need Hoven or anyone to tell them what is going on. There is nothing new under the sun and most of us on here have seen it all before.
 
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Sol

Smile
Jun 30, 2017
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Little bit of Column A, little bit of Column B.

In a male dominated profession, women will be scrutinized more. Bad male broadcasters are roasted but bad female ones are crucified. Rightly so in many cases but there is more heat thrown on them because they are bad and they must only be on the broadcast because they are a woman if they are indeed that bad. Leah Hextall, Cammi Granato way back in the day and whoever ESPN had on the Oilers/Kings playoff series just now come to mind.

There is also a meathead component to the Carrlyn thing. She isn't as hot as she was when she was scooping up ice in stretch pants and a sports bra but that is like 17 years ago so, sure, she got a hair cut. Outside of myself and a blessed few, most people don't look as good as they did 17 years ago. For longtime fans, there is definitely going to be a bit of "I liked you when you were captain of the Ice Girls v. telling me about hockey while having a short hair cut".

Agree that putting stuff out there opens you up to criticism, but she gets critiqued on her looks as well as what is deserved so it gets a bit uglier than it needs to be,

I mean, I think I'm the only one that ever criticizes Hoven's looks, except for maybe @Maynard. Now there is a mug only a mother could love, but is he getting grief for that?

It's just so easy to not pay attention to the broadcast outside of the actual game. Part of the reason why I love this place: full of Kings and hockey historians that don't need Hoven or anyone to tell them what is going on. There is nothing new under the sun and most of us on here have seen it all before.
I think Darryl Evans gets lambasted way more for his looks than Carrlyn. Faust got crucified here too. I think people are forgetting a lot of the shit men get from fans just because we're used to roasting men more often. I think there's some subjectives truths though, I think Darryl would get less shit if he stopped dressing like a ring leader at a circus, and if Carrlyn didn't subjectively have a bad haircut I think it'd lessen some of the commentary. When you're a public figure, any person will get made fun of. Even Jim, why is the guy still coloring his hair? Stoll and Patrick need to stop wearing those ugly sneakers with blazers.

On an interesting side note, I have begun to like Stoll a lot less. He's so uncritical of the Kings that its infuriating at times with his beyond milquetoast commentary.
 
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AbsentMojo

F-ing get up and hunt! Cmon Todd!
Apr 18, 2018
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I think Darryl Evans gets lambasted way more for his looks than Carrlyn. Faust got crucified here too. I think people are forgetting a lot of the shit men get from fans just because we're used to roasting men more often. I think there's some subjectives truths though, I think Darryl would get less shit if he stopped dressing like a ring leader at a circus, and if Carrlyn didn't subjectively have a bad haircut I think it'd lessen some of the commentary. When you're a public figure, any person will get made fun of. Even Jim, why is the guy still coloring his hair? Stoll and Patrick need to stop wearing those ugly sneakers with blazers.

On an interesting side note, I have begun to like Stoll a lot less. He's so uncritical of the Kings that its infuriating at times with his beyond milquetoast commentary.
Carlynn's scold of the fans was totally tone deaf. She is part of the org and her cheerleader self felt like defending the group she feels a part of... she def shouldve stayed neutral. Stoll is a good analyst - but since he's also a coach, you can understand why he can't really call them out. I can handle that re Stoll... with him I read between the lines.
 

BigKing

Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Mar 11, 2003
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I think Darryl Evans gets lambasted way more for his looks than Carrlyn. Faust got crucified here too. I think people are forgetting a lot of the shit men get from fans just because we're used to roasting men more often. I think there's some subjectives truths though, I think Darryl would get less shit if he stopped dressing like a ring leader at a circus, and if Carrlyn didn't subjectively have a bad haircut I think it'd lessen some of the commentary. When you're a public figure, any person will get made fun of. Even Jim, why is the guy still coloring his hair? Stoll and Patrick need to stop wearing those ugly sneakers with blazers.

On an interesting side note, I have begun to like Stoll a lot less. He's so uncritical of the Kings that its infuriating at times with his beyond milquetoast commentary.
Darryl is more for his outfits. Faust got criticized for his looks?

The sneakers with suits thing is rough. You aren't the guys on Inside the NBA: you can't pull it off.
 

johnjm22

Pseudo Intellectual
Aug 2, 2005
19,957
15,667
On an interesting side note, I have begun to like Stoll a lot less. He's so uncritical of the Kings that its infuriating at times with his beyond milquetoast commentary.
Stoll sucks as a commentator.

He's the same as every other vanilla dime a dozen former player commentators. He has nothing interesting to say. He's no better than Anson Carter.

I don't have anything against him, but I've never understood what people like about him. He's just there.
 

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