Player Discussion: Erik Cernak

[DFC]

KK was a bad draft pick. That was the issue. We've hung on to him this long because of that, not because of any merit.

He's a great skater but he doesn't have the brains to be a Dman. I think he'd be a good winger though.

I think that's true, but I also think it's true that we made mistakes with his development, and ran into some bad luck (two shoulder surgeries, or was it three, in addition to the one he'd already had). He definitely made steps forward before going to Syracuse, and we definitely handled him differently than other prospects, which I think, in hindsight, was a mistake. And he lost years on his development in that time. And maybe there's a point where you just can't get that lost time back.

That's not to say he was a good draft pick. He'd already had one shoulder surgery, if I remember correctly. So this was probably another case where Yzerman/Murray ignored red flags in search of a homerun. But, even so, I think we mishandled his development and made the problem worse, or, at least, made him less likely to reach whatever potential he had, and then there was a lot of bad luck along the way.

Koekkoek did, at times, show flashes that he could be a good player. They seemed to dry up in the last two years though. The Pens series in 2016 might be the best Koekkoek we'll ever see, sadly. That said, he could still develop into Coburn's replacement on the cheap.

 

[DFC]

I thought we tried him at forward for a game or so but could be wrong. But I think we should. And I agree with your assessment here. Hell, even Luke freaking Witkowski has played wing for us before.

It definitely happened with Luke, but I have no recollection of it happening with Slater.

 

[Rschmitz]

It definitely happened with Luke, but I have no recollection of it happening with Slater.

I think it happened by chance when we went 7 D and lost a forward to injury. Like substituting a position player in baseball, something that kind of just happened out of necessity. Also cloudy in my memory, but I do kind of remembering it happening

 

[Rschmitz]

I think that's true, but I also think it's true that we made mistakes with his development, and ran into some bad luck (two shoulder surgeries, or was it three, in addition to the one he'd already had). He definitely made steps forward before going to Syracuse, and we definitely handled him differently than other prospects, which I think, in hindsight, was a mistake. And he lost years on his development in that time. And maybe there's a point where you just can't get that lost time back.

That's not to say he was a good draft pick. He'd already had one shoulder surgery, if I remember correctly. So this was probably another case where Yzerman/Murray ignored red flags in search of a homerun. But, even so, I think we mishandled his development and made the problem worse, or, at least, made him less likely to reach whatever potential he had, and then there was a lot of bad luck along the way.

Koekkoek did, at times, show flashes that he could be a good player. They seemed to dry up in the last two years though. The Pens series in 2016 might be the best Koekkoek we'll ever see, sadly. That said, he could still develop into Coburn's replacement on the cheap.

I don't see any mishandling of his development up until he was competing for a position on the NHL roster. Like you said though, huge risk on drafting him based on his injury history and where he was anticipated to go in the draft. Most teams factored that in and we didn't, and feels like a reach because of need which unfortunately Yzerman says we do from time to time instead of taking BPA.

We've ignored injury history before with Connolly, I think they fell in love with KK's speed/size ratio and his defensive play in his draft+2 year was amazing, but didn't add enough muscle and he had issues on how he thought the game through. Needed some better coaching in that department.

You get basically the opposite in Cernak. Not a PMD, very much in the Weber/Seabrook mold.

 

[DFC]

I don't see any mishandling of his development up until he was competing for a position on the NHL roster. Like you said though, huge risk on drafting him based on his injury history and where he was anticipated to go in the draft. Most teams factored that in and we didn't, and feels like a reach because of need which unfortunately Yzerman says we do from time to time instead of taking BPA.

We've ignored injury history before with Connolly, I think they fell in love with KK's speed/size ratio and his defensive play in his draft+2 year was amazing, but didn't add enough muscle and he had issues on how he thought the game through. Needed some better coaching in that department.

You get basically the opposite in Cernak. Not a PMD, very much in the Weber/Seabrook mold.

I think we go searching for homeruns in every single round. It's just, when we swing and miss in later rounds, nobody cares. When we swing and miss in the 1st, it shows up, because we wasted a chance at a better player.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Not sure why this is in the Cernak thread instead of the general discussion but whatever. That said I don't think Koekkoek is a bad player, bad pick maybe because of who went behind him but that's a different story. I just don't think he'll break out with us but can still be a good NHLer. Just look at guys like Barberio, Connolly, Panik as recent picks who couldn't cut it with us but have carved out a decent career for themselves, I believe Koekkoek will be next on that list and Erne probably isn't too far behind him. Sometimes it takes a different coach or system for guys to work. Also with us we've been in a contender status for some time so trying to develop 20 year olds at the NHL level just isn't what we're doing which some of these kids need.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

How has he been these 2 games since his callup??

 

[Rschmitz]

How has he been these 2 games since his callup??

Making his presence known physically, surprisingly tight defensively already, but still hesitant with the puck on his stick.

 

[DFC]

He looks like he belongs though. I mean, he might not look like a top-4 guy, but that was never the projection for him. It's interesting though that we lost the Buffalo game and still went with Cernak, rather than back to Koekkoek, which shows that Koekkoek's recent stretch hasn't bought him much faith.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

It definitely happened with Luke, but I have no recollection of it happening with Slater.

I remember we did it for like a week or two and he was ok enough but then our offense got healthy

 

[CupsOverCash]

He looks like he belongs though. I mean, he might not look like a top-4 guy, but that was never the projection for him. It's interesting though that we lost the Buffalo game and still went with Cernak, rather than back to Koekkoek, which shows that Koekkoek's recent stretch hasn't bought him much faith.

KK didnt do much when he was here and they didnt trust him with the minutes they gave Cernak (I almost called him Dotchin lol). However I think since we cant send KK back to Syracuse they give the time they can to Cernak because I suspect he will be sent back to Syracuse unless they trade KK or somebody else.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Cernak deserved his cup of coffee but I don't think he played because of Koekkoek had a bad last game before he came up. Cernak played because we would've been 5L 1R otherwise so he gave us a little more balance than Koekkoek does. I think Koekkoek showed enough to get more games down the line and not just when there's an injury. We need to see if he worth bringing back as he'll be a cheap option with some experience for the 3rd pair.

 

[teddygmr]

I actually like Cernak better than Girardi!

 

[ccman68]

He has looked decent so far but he can be so much better. He just needs to find the confidence to skate with the puck.

 

[The Macho King]

I actually like Cernak better than Girardi!

Girardi is pretty much a "do no harm" Dman. Cernak takes a bit more risks.

Generally I like Cernak more. Better skater, better offensive instincts, better breakout pass, solid defensively. But Girardi is better positionally and less likely to roam a bit.

Cernak made a mistake that led to a goal in the Nashville game that we didn't really break down because Forsberg's shot was so good. He carries the puck deep in the offensive zone (and he has a forward cover him). That's fine. But then he makes a pass to no one. And that allows Forsberg to attack a forward skating backwards. If a Dman is playing deep in the zone (which is fine and I love them doing), they have to make pretty safe plays. Pucks in the slot, pucks behind the net, stuff like that. Not blind drop passes.

Rookie mistake and not really worth examining deeply. I'm sure the coaches talked about it during video. But it's the type of play a rookie Dman would make that a 12 year veteran wouldn't.

 

[BowDownToVasilevskiy]

Had his first multi point game in the NHL tonight. Was a good game for him.

 

[Steazy Doo]

I was critical of Cernak a few games ago, but he played very well tonight, points aside.

 

[RegularSznAllStars]

I was critical of Cernak a few games ago, but he played very well tonight, points aside.

I thought he was very strong

 

[42]

How do they send him down? He's been great.

 

[Cmac66]

How do they send him down? He's been great.

I don’t think they will, would not be surprised to see another D traded due to how well he’s has played.

 

[Rschmitz]

Most of his mistakes and errors have come in areas that are consistent with adjusting to this level. A little scared with the puck on his stick, erratic when a forward hits the blueline with speed, is susceptible to the forecheck when he doesn't have a secure outlet.

He's going to be a monster. Keep him up if hes one of the 6 best dmen we have, he doesn't need more AHL time.

Pretty sure thats the plan. He got a ton of SH time, you don't do that to a rookie in his first dozen or so games...coaching staff has confidence in him. Great to see

 

[HoseEmDown]

Waiting on the Dom to call him a potential #1 D, until then he's not good enough for me.

 

[waterboy65]

Cernak has all the earmarks of being a quality second pair defenseman. A better Coburn at his best. If top pair Dmen are like Hedman-McD-Stralman, he is behind those trio! As for KK, I actually thought he played well this year. Its a shame that just as he was gaining confidence, his ice time was eliminated. With Cernak clearly having passed KK on the depth chart, I think trading KK for a mid round draft pick should be done to benefit the player and the team!

 

[CupsOverCash]

Waiting on the Dom to call him a potential #1 D, until then he's not good enough for me.

Just go by advanced stats instead. Usually tells the tale.

 

[DFC]

I think he's a lot more likely to be an ideal 3rd pairing guy than a 2nd pairing guy (depth chart-wise, I mean. I just think he'll always be a #5 or 6 on a good depth chart). Sort of like how Cirelli, no matter how good he looks, is unlikely to ever be a legit top-6 guy.

That's not a knock on Cernak. He fills a need we've had for a long, long time. So much better than Sustr or Dotchin.