Player Discussion Drake Batherson (RW) - Part II

[SlapJack]

Guys like me? Did you read where I said I understand what you are trying to do?

I have an imagination but this isn't fantasy land.

If you think he will be a policeman, I have news for you, Gauthier isn't tough. So what is he going to do to help Stu? And why do we need someone to protect him?

Who protects McDavid? Who protects Crosby? Who protects Kane, Panarin, etc...?

The days of Semenko are LONG gone. Nobody is out there running around trying to kill guys. The PP is protection these days, and the Senators have a good one.

If the only answer to improve the bottom 6 is to take our legit top 6 and move them down then something is really wrong.

I'm all for team toughness and size but not just for the sake of it. I will be happy to have Gauthier/Kastelik/Kelly (or whoever, Joseph?) on the 4th line and think that is a net improvement over the start of last year.

Formenton / Pinto / Greig is a massive improvement on the 3rd line as well. Even Greig/Pinto/Joseph would be a big improvement.

Gauthier on the first line is out there for sure, but I don't think there was any suggestion he was going to be a policeman

 

[Golden_Jet]

Guys like me? Did you read where I said I understand what you are trying to do?

I have an imagination but this isn't fantasy land.

If you think he will be a policeman, I have news for you, Gauthier isn't tough. So what is he going to do to help Stu? And why do we need someone to protect him?

Who protects McDavid? Who protects Crosby? Who protects Kane, Panarin, etc...?

The days of Semenko are LONG gone. Nobody is out there running around trying to kill guys. The PP is protection these days, and the Senators have a good one.

If the only answer to improve the bottom 6 is to take our legit top 6 and move them down then something is really wrong.

I'm all for team toughness and size but not just for the sake of it. I will be happy to have Gauthier/Kastelik/Kelly (or whoever, Joseph?) on the 4th line and think that is a net improvement over the start of last year.

Formenton / Pinto / Greig is a massive improvement on the 3rd line as well. Even Greig/Pinto/Joseph would be a big improvement.

Kane protects McDavid

 

[OD99]

Gauthier on the first line is out there for sure, but I don't think there was any suggestion he was going to be a policeman

He referred to Semenko protecting Gretzky as an example and specifically said he would protect Stu.

"...he's a big body who could help Stutzle when guys go after him. Semenko played on Gretsky's line..."

Kane protects McDavid

They didn't get Kane or add him to McDavid's line specifically to protect him.

Kane is tough in his own right but is a legit player.

Plus Brady is already playing with Stu and he is one of the toughest in the league.

PLUS, who are all these boogeymen trying to jump Stu?

 

[Golden_Jet]

He referred to Semenko protecting Gretzky as an example and specifically said he would protect Stu.

"...he's a big body who could help Stutzle when guys go after him. Semenko played on Gretsky's line..."


They didn't get Kane or add him to McDavid's line specifically to protect him.

Kane is tough in his own right but is a legit player.

Plus Brady is already playing with Stu and he is one of the toughest in the league.

PLUS, who are all these boogeymen trying to jump Stu?

Yep I’m sure they keep Stu with Brady, makes the most sense. Don’t need guys taking advantage. Shuffle the right wingers around.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think Batherson will bounce back. We don't know how much teaching is going on playing defense and being on the right side of the puck , or supporting in the D zone or fronting pucks etc.. We did not see whatever level of schooling there was going on paying many dividends... Its not that hard to teach .. and of course there has to be a willingness to do it and there has to be a willingness to give up some chances on offense to do it. I would have to think a coach like Brind'Amour would be able to break it down and have it sink in.

 

[coladin]

I think Batherson will bounce back. We don't know how much teaching is going on playing defense and being on the right side of the puck , or supporting in the D zone or fronting pucks etc.. We did not see whatever level of schooling there was going on paying many dividends... Its not that hard to teach .. and of course there has to be a willingness to do it and there has to be a willingness to give up some chances on offense to do it. I would have to think a coach like Brind'Amour would be able to break it down and have it sink in.

I mean, I can totally rationalize in hindsight, and with the benefit of knowing of the ankle issues throughout the season, a player being tentative because of mobility issues. Should I go for that puck at the point? My ankle won't allow me to get there and get back and quickly change directions...I can totally see that. Playing that way, withyour ankle limitations in your head, will certainly lead to the issues he had.

He should bounce back

 

[DanyHeatley]

What is a bounce back season for Batherson?

60+ points positive +\-?
70+ points -10 ?

 

[Micklebot]

What is a bounce back season for Batherson?

60+ points positive +\-?
70+ points -10 ?

Bounce back suggests he plays similar to the previous year,

So based on his 2021-22 pace, I'd say a pace for :

30g 78pt, +7 or better would qualify as a bounce back.

Probably need to adjust that up for the increase in league scoring though.

 

[Agent Zub]

Didn't listen to the interview but the unlucky thing is bs.

He fully deserved that +/-.

 

[Micklebot]

Didn't listen to the interview but the unlucky thing is bs.

He fully deserved that +/-.

He certainly deserved a fair portion of the minuses, but he definitely had some misfortune at the other end of the ice, 4.14 sh% at 5v5 doesn't happen to a guy who can shoot like him without a bit of bad luck, you could probably add about 10+ goals if he was shooting at the same sh% as he did the prior two years.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

He's getting 75+ points if he stays clear of injury next season. No need to keep putting him in trade proposals.

 

[Sun God Nika]

He's getting 75+ points if he stays clear of injury next season. No need to keep putting him in trade proposals.

Nah, let’s trade a 4.95$ young top 6 forward who is capable of being ppg , it’s the cool take

 

[Larionov]

Any of you who are Blue Jays fans will be familiar with how this season is going for Kikuchi as opposed to last season. This year the dude is 5-0 so far and one of the best pitchers in MLB. Last year, he got dumped down to the bullpen by August and was absolutely dreadful. The thing is, no one could figure out why it was going badly for him - he was healthy, appeared to have good stuff, but was getting hit all over the yard. As it turns out, he was just having some bad luck and a bad year. I feel like Batherson is in the same boat - between the lingering injury, missing his buddy Norris and just some bad luck, you saw what you saw. There's every reason to believe that he is poised for a significant bounce back season.

 

[JungleBeat]

Too many controller disconnect moments from him. Another reason why we need a new coach that holds these players accountable and isn’t buddy buddy with them.

 

[Slippy]

Any of you who are Blue Jays fans will be familiar with how this season is going for Kikuchi as opposed to last season. This year the dude is 5-0 so far and one of the best pitchers in MLB. Last year, he got dumped down to the bullpen by August and was absolutely dreadful. The thing is, no one could figure out why it was going badly for him - he was healthy, appeared to have good stuff, but was getting hit all over the yard. As it turns out, he was just having some bad luck and a bad year. I feel like Batherson is in the same boat - between the lingering injury, missing his buddy Norris and just some bad luck, you saw what you saw. There's every reason to believe that he is poised for a significant bounce back season.

That is not true. Kikuchi has significantly improved his command this season as you can note in the difference of his walk rate. Also he has changed his pitch mix meaning he isn't throwing the cutter that got him trouble so often last year as much this year. He also changed parts of his delivery.

Many people saw what was wrong with Kikucki and tried to fix, but that is not as easy for a pitcher in the middle of a season versus making adjustments in the offseason with time to get comfortable and work out any issues.

Bad luck can account for smaller changes or smaller sample sizes, but rarely can it be used to describe an entire season. Batherson as well, may have experienced some bad luck (making a pass that leads to a goal, but is inevitably on the bench when the goal is scored [misses the +1]), but mostly I think the lack of confidence in his leg and mobility probably caused the slower first half.

 

[aragorn]

He referred to Semenko protecting Gretzky as an example and specifically said he would protect Stu.

"...he's a big body who could help Stutzle when guys go after him. Semenko played on Gretsky's line..."


They didn't get Kane or add him to McDavid's line specifically to protect him.

Kane is tough in his own right but is a legit player.

Plus Brady is already playing with Stu and he is one of the toughest in the league.

PLUS, who are all these boogeymen trying to jump Stu?

Gauthier is a big guy & a strong guy although not a tough guy & certainly not an enforcer, but being big is sometimes enough to get in between guys & stop others from going after Stutzle in scrums. Lots of guys have been elevated in the lineup for different reasons one of them is trying to get them with better players to hopefully get their offence going, that is what I was implying, spreading out their offence. Gauthier used to be a goal scorer & needs something to get his offence going & playing with those two might do it. They tried Joseph on the top line a few times why not Guathier? If it doesn't work than look to move him otherwise I don't see a need for him.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If you wanted to give one guy a chance to prove themselves between Batherson , Joseph and DJ Smith ; Who you got?

 

[Micklebot]

If you wanted to give one guy a chance to prove themselves between Batherson , Joseph and DJ Smith ; Who you got?

Seems like Batherson is clearly the toughest to replace,

Joseph is at best a middle six guy on a decent contract if he plays to his potential, but a bad contract if he keeps playing the way he did this year

DJ is a well liked coach who hasn't yet gotten the wins, coaches are hired to be fired,

Batherson is a top line wing on a steal of a contract if he plays to his potential, a one way scoring wing that needs sheltering if he continues to play like he did this year,

It's not really a tough call at all.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Seems like Batherson is clearly the toughest to replace,

Joseph is at best a middle six guy on a decent contract if he plays to his potential, but a bad contract if he keeps playing the way he did this year

DJ is a well liked coach who hasn't yet gotten the wins, coaches are hired to be fired,

Batherson is a top line wing on a steal of a contract if he plays to his potential, a one way scoring wing that needs sheltering if he continues to play like he did this year,

It's not really a tough call at all.

The good news is that we can give all three a shot at success.

 

[Micklebot]

The good news is that we can give all three a shot at success.

We can do a lot of things, not all of them are going to be in the teams beat interest.

 

[Ice-Tray]

We can do a lot of things, not all of them are going to be in the teams beat interest.

Vague, and also impossible to disagree with.

 

[Micklebot]

 

[aragorn]

Batherson is a high skilled player who can handle & distribute the puck in a phone booth. IMO he is irreplaceable & definitely part of the core & will eventually replace Giroux on the top line.

Joseph & Brannstrom are the two who together make about $5 mil & should be moved to make room for a player like Tarasenko. Kleven will eventually replace Brannstrom hopefully sooner rather than later & they also have Larsson in Belleville who has NHL experience.

IMO I would much rather have Sokolov in the lineup over Joseph given he has led Belleville in two out of three seasons with only a pt behind in the season he did not lead. He's a big body that goes to the net that is hard to move & could pick up a lot of garbage goals around the net. He would be an improvement IMO that is much cheaper.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Batherson is a high skilled player who can handle & distribute the puck in a phone booth. IMO he is irreplaceable & definitely part of the core & will eventually replace Giroux on the top line.

Joseph & Brannstrom are the two who together make about $5 mil & should be moved to make room for a player like Tarasenko. Kleven will eventually replace Brannstrom hopefully sooner rather than later & they also have Larsson in Belleville who has NHL experience.

IMO I would much rather have Sokolov in the lineup over Joseph given he has led Belleville in two out of three seasons with only a pt behind in the season he did not lead. He's a big body that goes to the net that is hard to move & could pick up a lot of garbage goals around the net. He would be an improvement IMO that is much cheaper.

I agree with moving Joseph and Bran but not for Tank. Need someone with more jam.

Given Batherson’s contract he is an integral part of this team’s future success, if any. Hopefully he’s over the HAS.