Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[NJDevs26]

Palat “already being a bad hockey player” is fake news. Marino should have a nice bounce back season on a lower pairing.

But the rest I agree.

He’s not a bad player but he really shouldn’t be in the top six either. They have to bump him down and replace Toffoli long term. Holtz would have been nice but….

 

[forceten]

Technically, we aren't eliminated, because we can get to 85 points and doing so would have us at 40 wins, 3 more than Washington who is 8th at 85 points with 37. What am I missing here? I know that we will be eliminated, but it seems premature.

 

[theoptimist]

They clearly had an inkling but you're not going to replace McLeod via UFA. Nosek is another player who was hurt all year. Healthy, he would've been just fine replacing 2022-23 McLeod.

I don't understand. A player we signed this year (Nosek) would replace a player's production from a season ago? IMO, McLeod was a core player and I know some posters pummeled others for suggesting this. Nosek and McLeod are comparable if you're only comparing counting totals. It's unfortunate, but a pious McLeod would have earned $3.5-4M in the open market. Right-handed center coming off a career year. Even at $3.5/4 he would have been the perfect, cost-effective 3C and would have continued to support Nico on defense matchups. You can replace, but these are big shoes to fill.

I also liked McLeod alot (probably more than the average fan) and considered him just as important as Nico, Jack, and Bratt. Lazar brings similar elements, but I'm not sure he has a future as a third line center.

 

[ZYXWVUT]

Thoughts on the below?

NJ trades

2025 1st
Bahl
Holtz

VGK trades

Thompson
McNabb
Roy

CGY trades
Markstrom @50%
Vladar @ 50%

NJD receives

Markstrom @50%
Roy
McNabb

VGK receices

Bahl
2025 1st
Vladar @ 50%

CGY Receives

Thompson
Holtz

a lot to sift through in terms of value & figuring it out, but i am all in on the idea of those targets that would land in NJ here.

Technically, we aren't eliminated, because we can get to 85 points and doing so would have us at 40 wins, 3 more than Washington who is 8th at 85 points with 37. What am I missing here? I know that we will be eliminated, but it seems premature.

its because of the teams playing one another, so someone is getting past 85 no matter what. pretty sure its that at least.

 

[forceten]

its because of the teams playing one another, so someone is getting past 85 no matter what. pretty sure its that at least.

I know, but technically, as of right now, we're not eliminated. We just will be for sure

What's weird is it looks like a team under .500 (just in W-L) will make the playoffs and that is lame.

 

[Triumph]

I don't understand. A player we signed this year (Nosek) would replace a player's production from a season ago? IMO, McLeod was a core player and I know some posters pummeled others for suggesting this. Nosek and McLeod are comparable if you're only comparing counting totals. It's unfortunate, but a pious McLeod would have earned $3.5-4M in the open market. Right-handed center coming off a career year. Even at $3.5/4 he would have been the perfect, cost-effective 3C and would have continued to support Nico on defense matchups. You can replace, but these are big shoes to fill.

I also liked McLeod alot (probably more than the average fan) and considered him just as important as Nico, Jack, and Bratt. Lazar brings similar elements, but I'm not sure he has a future as a third line center.

McLeod took a big step over the offseason and was a significantly better player. In 2022-23 he scored 4 goals and none of those were shot into a net with a goalie in it. His playoff goals were both weird too. He did a lot of other stuff well but it's really hard to be a valuable forward when you cannot score goals.

Very obviously I was commenting on the hypothetical that Nosek was signed, in part, because the Devils anticipated that McLeod may not be with the team for the whole season.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

A relatively normal season in terms of injuries and goaltending being even mediocre would definitely go a long way. It's also true that a healthy core playing well makes the supporting cast job's easier, e.g. the PP scores goals your even strength time is easier.

Just there are lots of examples of a team with elite talent not having the right support guys. A lot of Crosby/Malkin years wasted for example, I'm looking at TB right now and wondering what's going on with their bottom 6. There's some guys Fitz went after that make me concerned. You can show me 80 different graphs talking about how great Tyler Toffoli is for example but I just didn't see him as being the right fit for Jack Hughes's winger to make a controversial claim. A less controversial claim is it's crazy how many minutes Brendan Smith played this year for NJ, even as a depth dman they should have found some way to get him out of the lineup earlier.

NJ simply needs to make the playoffs next year and have it be relatively effortless instead of an 82 game grind if they want to be contenders, and I think we all expect them to contend next year (or at least I do).

You may be overestimating the Devils core at this point and especially what they were this year. The only Devil that would have hit 30 goals this year was a 31 year old journeyman who is now on his 6th team or so. Every team that made the playoffs this year had at least one 30 goal scorer. A talented core is ont thing - a healthy, productive one is another

 

[NJDevs26]

Technically, we aren't eliminated, because we can get to 85 points and doing so would have us at 40 wins, 3 more than Washington who is 8th at 85 points with 37. What am I missing here? I know that we will be eliminated, but it seems premature.

Seven teams are over 86 points and either Pittsburgh or Detroit will get there after they play

 

[Devils731]

You may be overestimating the Devils core at this point and especially what they were this year. The only Devil that would have hit 30 goals this year was a 31 year old journeyman who is now on his 6th team or so. Every team that made the playoffs this year had at least one 30 goal scorer. A talented core is ont thing - a healthy, productive one is another

That seems an unfair way to look at things as the Devils had 4 players pace for 30+ goals this season, 2 of those players doing so while playing significantly hurt for a portion of their games.

 

[glenwo2]

Would really love to see a Rangers-Islanders 1st round matchup. Would be great to see the Rangers get knocked out again in the 1st round by one of their biggest rivals. At the very least, the two teams would probably beat the crap out of each other.

As long as the Rangers lose at some point, I'm fine. Maybe I'll root for Edmonton as I'd like to see McDavid, Draisaitl & Henrique win a Cup.

Would love to see Rico win a Cup.

He deserves to for "Henrique! It's Over!" in 2012 at the very least.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

That seems an unfair way to look at things as the Devils had 4 players pace for 30+ goals this season, 2 of those players doing so while playing significantly hurt for a portion of their games.

That is why I said:

"A talented core is ont thing - a healthy, productive one is another"

 

[Devils731]

That is why I said:

"A talented core is ont thing - a healthy, productive one is another"

So the Devils should re-evaluate the core because this season a bunch of them missed 15+ games?

The prior year they barely missed any time.

If Nico hits 30 anyway, does the core stop needing re-evaluation because a guy got to that number this year?

I do think that was a pretty unfair way to evaluate the Devils core.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

So the Devils should re-evaluate the core because this season a bunch of them missed 15+ games?

The prior year they barely missed any time.

If Nico hits 30 anyway, does the core stop needing re-evaluation because a guy got to that number this year?

I do think that was a pretty unfair way to evaluate the Devils core.

I was responding a poster that compared the Devils core to prime Pitt (2 first ballot HOFers) and TBL with 2 great proven playoff pjerformers

 

[NJDevilsFan21]

Outside of Timo I don't know how I feel about a core of a bunch of 175lb players moving forward. Though I thought Bratt actually looked pretty good in this regard, this past season...

Malkin, Crosby, McDavid, Stamkos, etc. All closer to 200lbs. All players that could play the boards if needed - something the Devils could not do at all this past season. That's aside from just feeling more injury prone.

When a team played a 1-3-1 the Devils were completely neutralized. We had absolutely no counter to our transition game being shut down.

Go get Zetterlund back from SJ please! We need those types of versatile players and not players like Mercer and Holtz with a core of Bratt, Nico, and Jack.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

You may be overestimating the Devils core at this point and especially what they were this year. The only Devil that would have hit 30 goals this year was a 31 year old journeyman who is now on his 6th team or so. Every team that made the playoffs this year had at least one 30 goal scorer. A talented core is ont thing - a healthy, productive one is another

Possibly, there are question marks whenever dealing with recovery from injury. Hamilton is also older so it is the decline phase of his career. Timo shut up a lot of doubters including myself though to the end the year. Hischier/Bratt were great this year. Jack Hughes was great if you consider he had a bum shoulder for at least half the year.

Luke Hughes and Simon Nemec had amazing rookie years. There really isn't a core out there that looks better than NJ's the next 5 years. The team is still in a charmed position even with this nightmare season and really should be thinking cup moving forward.

Edit: maybe Colorado or whoever, 5 years isn't that long, but NJ is right up there with them.

 

[Bleedred]

I'm confident this team will be better next year with a bit more health, some bottom-6 reinforcements, one new goalie and just the termination of the Green Plague and completely removing him from the staff should help tremendously, as long as we don't hire other people as bad as him, which that's pretty hard to do.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Why are we complaining about the players that did their job?

-Jack was a PPG player with one arm.
-Nico is going to finish close to 30 goals and at almost a PPG despite a major concussion.
-Bratt set a new career high in points and is within spitting distance of the franchise's single season assist record.
-Timo was a dominant player in March when he finally got healthy, being close to 30 goals this season is close to a miracle.

It was the depth outside the core that failed to show up this season.

Mercer:
56 points last season --> 33 points this season

Toffoli:
73 points last season --> 44 points this season

Haula:
41 points last season --> 34 points this season

Palat:
19 goals, 54 points in 117 games as a Devil

Marino:
2.05 GA/60 last season --> 3.47 GA/60 last season

Bahl:
2.19 GA/60 last year --> 3.01 GA/60 this year


McLeod had 27 points in 79 games in calendar year 2023.
Bastian, Tierney, Nosek, and Willman combined for 34 points in 156 combined man-games.


And of course,

Vanecek:
.911%, 2.45 GAA last season --> .890%, 3.18 GAA last season

Schmid:
.922%, 2.14 GAA last season --> .895%, 3.15 GAA last season

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Possibly, there are question marks whenever dealing with recovery from injury. Hamilton is also older so it is the decline phase of his career. Timo shut up a lot of doubters including myself though to the end the year. Hischier/Bratt were great this year. Jack Hughes was great if you consider he had a bum shoulder for at least half the year.

Luke Hughes and Simon Nemec had amazing rookie years. There really isn't a core out there that looks better than NJ's the next 5 years. The team is still in a charmed position even with this nightmare season and really should be thinking cup moving forward.

Edit: maybe Colorado or whoever, 5 years isn't that long, but NJ is right up there with them.

No doubt, but that is different than comparing this Devils core to all time great cores. IMO the Metro sucks and it is embarrassing to miss the playoffs this year.

TBL was so good they had Kuch miss a whole regular season and still mangaed to make the playoffs and than go on to win it with him at less than 100% TBL had one of the best goalies at that time, the Devils not so much., so I guess it depends on what you consider part of a teams core and what is important.

 

[Zippy316]

Why are we complaining about the players that did their job?

-Jack was a PPG player with one arm.
-Nico is going to finish close to 30 goals and at almost a PPG despite a major concussion.
-Bratt set a new career high in points and is within spitting distance of the franchise's single season assist record.
-Timo was a dominant player in March when he finally got healthy, being close to 30 goals this season is close to a miracle.

It was the depth outside the core that failed to show up this season.

Mercer:
56 points last season --> 33 points this season

Toffoli:
73 points last season --> 44 points this season

Haula:
41 points last season --> 34 points this season

Palat:
19 goals, 54 points in 117 games as a Devil

Marino:
2.05 GA/60 last season --> 3.47 GA/60 last season

Bahl:
2.19 GA/60 last year --> 3.01 GA/60 this year


McLeod had 27 points in 79 games in calendar year 2023.
Bastian, Tierney, Nosek, and Willman combined for 34 points in 156 combined man-games.


And of course,

Vanecek:
.911%, 2.45 GAA last season --> .890%, 3.18 GAA last season

Schmid:
.922%, 2.14 GAA last season --> .895%, 3.15 GAA last season

I don’t think Haula or Palat were the issues.

Meier and Hughes had underwhelming seasons by their usual standards (partially due to injury obviously). Siegenthaler, Marino, and Mercer struggled tremendously.

I think Hamilton returning corrects some of the defensive issues. It will prop up Siegenthaler, take some minutes off of Marino, and prevent over-extending Luke. If you can add one solid second pairing defensive LD, I think the defense as a group would be fine, especially if Luke/Nemec continue to improve.

Same for a healthy Hughes and Meier. Again, if you add another Haula type for the top-nine and a McLeod replacement for bottom six, I think those issues sort themselves out.

This season falls on one over-arching theme (with some poor injury luck). Fitzgerald took the gamble that the young core were playoff contenders and that they could carry the team into the playoff despite being top heavy like the Caps and Penguins have been doing for years. I think it’s clear this team needs a little more depth than previously thought.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

You may be overestimating the Devils core at this point and especially what they were this year. The only Devil that would have hit 30 goals this year was a 31 year old journeyman who is now on his 6th team or so. Every team that made the playoffs this year had at least one 30 goal scorer. A talented core is ont thing - a healthy, productive one is another

What an arbitrary line in the sand to draw.

Hughes had 27 goals
Nico has 27 goals
Toffoli had 26 goals
Bratt has 25 goals
Meier has 25 goals
Even Mercer who was shit for 75% of the year has 20 goals.

I'd much rather 5-6 guys hit 25+ than 1 guy hit 30+.

 

[Ripshot 43]

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Basically, here is where I am at:

• I am not worried whatsoever about the "core" guys (Hughes x2, Hischier, Bratt, Meier, Nemec), but they do need to show that they can stay healthy.
• Need to get a coach with a structured system first and foremost. Ruff's "system" was basically just pond hockey. They need structure. I don't need a Torts level madman, just get me someone with a legit system in place.
• Need to get a goalie. Markstrom, Ullmark, Saros, etc etc we all have been over this. Allen is fine as the backup.
• Need to bring in at least 2 new bottom 6ers. I posted a list a few weeks ago of guys I would like, but there are plenty available in FA.
• Probably need to look into another 2nd pairing LHD that can defend.
• Need Brendan Smith to f*** off to Siberia

 

[NJDevs26]

Thing is, the core was mostly there when we no-showed and lost game after game to cream of the crap teams. Numbers are nice but Fitz needs to do a deep dive, you can’t just blame the coach when it was the same shit on two staffs although yes Fitz picked a horrible staff. I compare it to 2002 when Lou clearly saw the room wasn’t right and traded guys for non hockey reasons

 

[glenwo2]

 

[MasterofGrond]

if I have to watch a single Brendan Smith game next season I'll be annoyed.

If I have to watch 10+ I'm burning down Fitz's house.