CXLVIII - NHL BOG approves sale and relocation of Coyotes to Ryan Smith, league announces establishment of franchise in Utah

[Spydey629]

Well they won't be paying management fees anymore and they will be done with bond payments in 2033. So it looks like they've minimized the pain of a bad decision. Even if AM does get his arena built ASM will own Glendale's arena so they will be booking shows there. You've got Footprint downtown so what's going to be left for AM? How many three arena markets do you have other than LA and NY?

How big are we talking? Even Pittsburgh has more than three:

PPG: 18,000+ for hockey
Petersen Events Center (Pitt): 12,000
Duquesne: 6,000
Robert Morris: 4,000

That’s just indoor arenas. There’s three outdoor stadiums in the city, plus the Star Lake Amphitheater outside the city.

That doesn’t even include the multiple minor league arenas within a two-hour drive.

 

[Llama19]

Tempe voters distrusted the Arizona Coyotes more than supporters on the council. Why?

To quote:

"Tempe's contentious March election proved that voters disliked the Arizona Coyotes more than the officials who backed the team's plans for an arena, suggesting they are mostly happy with how the city develops.

Voters overwhelmingly chose pro-development and status quo candidates and approved a city proposal called General Plan 2050 that could increase urban growth.

The campaign itself was defined by two prominent factions:

- The first, a fiery opposition that misread the mood of Tempe voters, mistaking the Coyotes' defeat with a general distaste for development and a public desire to change the current approach to growth.

- The other was an established block of candidates who were anxious that the opposition might be right, which swept the ticket when voters rejected major changes to the status quo.

In regard to the discrepant outcome between the last two elections, [City Councilmember Randy] Keating pointed to what he called the Coyotes' "terribly inept" campaign. He contends that the Coyotes' ownership group simply "rubbed voters the wrong way," even if they liked hockey or were OK with large developments.

“A lot of the folks I talked to about the Coyotes weren't necessarily opposed to the deal or development to large, they just didn't trust the owners," Keating said. "They thought the ownership was a bad group of people, and unfortunately the ownership didn't do anything to dissuade them of that opinion throughout the whole election.”"

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2024/04/29/tempe-voters-coyotes-anti-development/73303660007/

 

[aqib]

How big are we talking? Even Pittsburgh has more than three:

PPG: 18,000+ for hockey
Petersen Events Center (Pitt): 12,000
Duquesne: 6,000
Robert Morris: 4,000

That’s just indoor arenas. There’s three outdoor stadiums in the city, plus the Star Lake Amphitheater outside the city.

That doesn’t even include the multiple minor league arenas within a two-hour drive.

Ok I was referring to major to league sized arenas. So it's basically NY, LA (assuming the Forum stays once Intuit is built) and Vegas.

 

[KevFu]

The whole "How many arenas do you need?" Thing is silly, because we're counting with a very narrow scope (Major PRO Sports Teams!) and ignoring everything else.


Every venue knows what it costs to open the building, turn on the lights and pay the staff. Above that amount is what's charged to the event that's RENTING the facility.

If the attendance/sales aren't big enough to cover that, it's the EVENT ORGANIZERS who's taking the loss, not the arena.

If you have a "third" Phoenix arena (It's not the third. Arizona State University has at least three by themselves) it would open when there's a justification to open it, and closed when there wasn't

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[Coyotedroppings]

CircleK is a sponsor.


Sits in a room with several video screens and looks for possible challenge situations.

Also supplies replay up to the iPads on the bench.

Also looks for tendencies and analyzes systems for the coaching staff.

 

[GKJ]

 

[aqib]

The whole "How many arenas do you need?" Thing is silly, because we're counting with a very narrow scope (Major PRO Sports Teams!) and ignoring everything else.


Every venue knows what it costs to open the building, turn on the lights and pay the staff. Above that amount is what's charged to the event that's RENTING the facility.

If the attendance/sales aren't big enough to cover that, it's the EVENT ORGANIZERS who's taking the loss, not the arena.

If you have a "third" Phoenix arena (It's not the third. Arizona State University has at least three by themselves) it would open when there's a justification to open it, and closed when there wasn't

I mean supply and demand is a thing. Like Jersey discovered having the Meadowlands Arena and Prudential Center wasn't good anybody because there wasn't enough business for both. Nassau County was considering letting Las Vegas Sands take over the Nassau Coliseum site and possibly let them tear the arena down because there isn't enough business for both that and UBS.

So would a 3rd major league venue make sense in the Valley? If you figure all the tours attached to ASM are going to Glendale, what is going to be left after downtown?

Tempe voters distrusted the Arizona Coyotes more than supporters on the council. Why?

To quote:

In regard to the discrepant outcome between the last two elections, [City Councilmember Randy] Keating pointed to what he called the Coyotes' "terribly inept" campaign. He contends that the Coyotes' ownership group simply "rubbed voters the wrong way," even if they liked hockey or were OK with large developments.

“A lot of the folks I talked to about the Coyotes weren't necessarily opposed to the deal or development to large, they just didn't trust the owners," Keating said. "They thought the ownership was a bad group of people, and unfortunately the ownership didn't do anything to dissuade them of that opinion throughout the whole election.”"

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2024/04/29/tempe-voters-coyotes-anti-development/73303660007/

Its almost as though Meruelo has an image problem and letting Gutierrez do all the talking for him was a bad idea...

 

[Fatass]

Seems like that owner was why the club had to relocate. The nhl will be back in Arizona but not with that owner.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Of course. It was obvious. Same with the players hating it. People tried to call them brats, which was ridiculous or calling it fake. As if Walsh would go out there lying.

 

[Llama19]

From the ESPN article...

 

[Spring in Fialta]

From the ESPN article...

View attachment 862305

But we were totally wrong for saying that the primary motivator when the Coyotes would make trade was not taking cash back.

 

[Melrose Munch]

But we were totally wrong for saying that the primary motivator when the Coyotes would make trade was not taking cash back.

Everything was true. Sad. This league is always one long lockout away from extinction.

 

[aqib]

Seems like that owner was why the club had to relocate. The nhl will be back in Arizona but not with that owner.

The problem is that out of the billionaires who would make good owners, none of them have stepped up to buy the team despite the number of times it has been for sale.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Everything was true. Sad. This league is always one long lockout away from extinction.

What lol

 

[Melrose Munch]

What lol

Just that the management and picking of crappy owners will drive the NHL into a ditch at some point. There is always market instability somewhere in this league for some reason.

 

[GKJ]

Of course. It was obvious. Same with the players hating it. People tried to call them brats, which was ridiculous or calling it fake. As if Walsh would go out there lying.

Walsh was probably asked by Bettman himself to do it, to say nothing being motivated by establishing players' agency. This will get addressed in the CBA. What specific rights come out of it is anyone's guess, but it will never happen again.

 

[TheLegend]

Question for the board......

If you are in the process of trying to turn around a franchise that's eternally losing money and are losing $50-60 million yourself annually..... is it wrong to start trying to control some costs (as in staying at Holiday Inn rather than the Ritz Carlton, or dining at Denny's instead of Lowe's Steakhouses) where you can??

OR just leave things the way they are and keep digging a deeper hole???

 

[Tawnos]

Question for the board......

If you are in the process of trying to turn around a franchise that's eternally losing money and are losing $50-60 million yourself annually..... is it wrong to start trying to control some costs (as in staying at Holiday Inn rather than the Ritz Carlton, or dining at Denny's instead of Lowe's Steakhouses) where you can??

OR just leave things the way they are and keep digging a deeper hole???

Clearly a lot of that was driven by the cash flow issues the Coyotes had from being low revenue. Trying to cut costs where he could is the responsible thing to do.

What was a bigger problem, in my mind, was to try to stiff vendors or change terms after using their goods/services. There are quite a lot of businesspeople who operate exactly the way Meruelo is being described here. I've mentioned before that there's a VERY high profile example of someone like that. Used to get involved with WWE and had a TV show where he got to fire people. I won't name names.

It's not an uncommon thing, but I cannot imagine that the NHL would be happy with someone like that in the club.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Question for the board......

If you are in the process of trying to turn around a franchise that's eternally losing money and are losing $50-60 million yourself annually..... is it wrong to start trying to control some costs (as in staying at Holiday Inn rather than the Ritz Carlton, or dining at Denny's instead of Lowe's Steakhouses) where you can??

OR just leave things the way they are and keep digging a deeper hole???

You involve the league immediately. The article makes it clear that there is a standard set for the league's players (i.e. you can't toss them in a Knights Inn). You don't start stiffing the entire planet.

 

[aqib]

Just that the management and picking of crappy owners will drive the NHL into a ditch at some point. There is always market instability somewhere in this league for some reason.

There are lots of billionaires want to own sports teams. You've got private equity, hedge fund, and tech guys buying up teams when they hit the market. That's why valuations have gone through the roof. Yet this franchise could only attract one clown after another. Look at everyone who has bought an NHL team since the Coyotes went into bankruptcy you have: Vinick in Tampa Viola in Florida, Chipman/Thomson in Winnipeg, Pegula in Buffalo, Stillman in St Louis, Blitzer/Harris in New Jersey, Foley in Vegas, Ledecky/Malkin for the Islanders, Bonderman/Bruckheimer in Seattle, Dundon in Carolina, Andlauer in Ottawa, and now Smith in Utah.
Now compare that to various people who have owned the Coyotes. Why is the NHL able to attract those guys to these other franchises but no one legit to the Coyotes. Now some of them like Chipman/Thomson, Pegula, Stillman, and Smith only wanted to buy teams in those particular markets. But again no one legit was willing to buy the Coyotes.

 

[sneakytitz]

Question for the board......

If you are in the process of trying to turn around a franchise that's eternally losing money and are losing $50-60 million yourself annually..... is it wrong to start trying to control some costs (as in staying at Holiday Inn rather than the Ritz Carlton, or dining at Denny's instead of Lowe's Steakhouses) where you can??

Apples to oranges. My personal choices aren't qualified by a CBA, an NHL team's is.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Question for the board......

If you are in the process of trying to turn around a franchise that's eternally losing money and are losing $50-60 million yourself annually..... is it wrong to start trying to control some costs (as in staying at Holiday Inn rather than the Ritz Carlton, or dining at Denny's instead of Lowe's Steakhouses) where you can??

OR just leave things the way they are and keep digging a deeper hole???

The question itself is a bit disingenuous because it gives off the impression that you can cut your way out of a 50 - 60 million dollar hole (though let's be honest, that hole is actually probably in the 700 - 800 million dollar range when you add up all debt associated with the team). Reality is though that you can't unless the budget that you're working with is in at least the hundreds of millions. I mean if they were losing 50 - 60 million per year, I can't even begin to imagine 1 - what their revenue was like, and 2 - what they lost during covid.

But that last line is very interesting. Both sides will agree I think that they shouldn't keep digging the hole. The difference is that one side wanted to fill it with cement and move on while the other side was hoping that they'd eventually hit oil even though every single indication were that they'd never hit it in a desert.

Here's a question though. If you're someone who is having cash flow issues to the point of not being able to, or wanting to, fulfill the CBA mandated accommodations, why are you even owning a Tier 1 sports team?

 

[TheLegend]

Apples to oranges. My personal choices aren't qualified by a CBA, an NHL team's is.

It’s a business….

One you’re sinking hundreds of millions into and bleeding tens of millions.

Note I’m not defending Meruelo here…. Just looking at it from his point of view.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

But again no one legit was willing to buy the Coyotes.

Well they don't have an arena lol.

Biggest reason for it.