Prospect Info: All-Purpose 2024 Draft Thread & Celebrini discussion (also the 14th pick and whatever else is draft related)

[TheBeard]

I think the issue remains that even the top D in this draft have flaws that can stop them from reaching their potential. There’s no Celebrini version of a defenseman here. So the question is, do you trade your draft for a guy who could end up a #4 defenseman or do you take 3 shots at someone developing into something special?

I REALLY want Buium but I think the price has to be somewhat reasonable.

What is at 33 +42 that's better than a potential top pairing franchise D-man?

 

[Jargon]

What is at 33 +42 that's better than a potential top pairing franchise D-man?

But do any of them have that potential, of a franchise top pairing defenseman? I feel like Buium is closer to a #2 with an outside chance of becoming a #1. Maybe Levshunov if he puts it all together, but we’re not getting him.

Again, I really like Buium, I’d really have to think about trading all 3 picks for him. Maybe though? It depends how high our scouts are on him, ultimately.

 

[TheBeard]

But do any of them have that potential, of a franchise top pairing defenseman? I feel like Buium is closer to a #2 with an outside chance of becoming a #1. Maybe Levshunov if he puts it all together, but we’re not getting him.

Again, I really like Buium, I’d really have to think about trading all 3 picks for him. Maybe though? It depends how high our scouts are on him, ultimately.

I know he's been compared to Quinn Hughes as an example, but obviously nothing is certain until he's in the NHL, but if there's ever a time to move up and really own this draft it's when you have ammo to give and you're already getting a potential franchise altering 1C at first overall. We have a lot to give without having to give up either first round pick next year. Seems like it makes more sense to use the second rounders to get another potential top tier talent. If there's someone Grier is truly targeting and can go up and get then I'd rather that than two lesser talents in the second round.

 

[Great Makohead Shork]

I think the issue remains that even the top D in this draft have flaws that can stop them from reaching their potential. There’s no Celebrini version of a defenseman here. So the question is, do you trade your draft for a guy who could end up a #4 defenseman or do you take 3 shots at someone developing into something special?

I REALLY want Buium but I think the price has to be somewhat reasonable.

Their flaws are the only reason that we'd have a chance at trading up. The top of this years draft has a lot more question marks than last years, which might nudge a lotto team into trading down for more darts. Ironically I feel like the choices hovering around 14OA (Nygard, Helenius) have a higher floor than a few of the top dmen.

This is all reliant on our scouts convincing GMMG that one of the dmen is worth giving up a haul for. If our scouts don't feel strongly enough to move up or if we can't find a dance partner I'm perfectly content with standing pat. It's just, with our franchise center secured, I'd feel far more comfortable with our rebuild if we somehow managed to snag a potential franchise dman. Get them in the system early since they take longer to develop. That's if the brass thinks a dman is BPA. Would have been perfect if we snagged one of the top dmen in 2022...

 

[timorous me]

Their flaws are the only reason that we'd have a chance at trading up. The top of this years draft has a lot more question marks than last years, which might nudge a lotto team into trading down for more darts. Ironically I feel like the choices hovering around 14OA (Nygard, Helenius) have a higher floor than a few of the top dmen.

This is all reliant on our scouts convincing GMMG that one of the dmen is worth giving up a haul for. If our scouts don't feel strongly enough to move up or if we can't find a dance partner I'm perfectly content with standing pat. It's just, with our franchise center secured, I'd feel far more comfortable with our rebuild if we somehow managed to snag a potential franchise dman. Get them in the system early since they take longer to develop. That's if the brass thinks a dman is BPA. Would have been perfect if we snagged one of the top dmen in 2022...

A lot depends on what Grier and the scouting staff are thinking, as you said, but if they see some potential upside (2/3D, maybe?) on guys who are more in the mid-teens to 20s range, they could possibly trade the two second round picks for a 20-something pick and then come home with two of Jiricek, Solberg, Badinka, Elick, and Emery.

That to me feels more likely than a top-10 team being willing to move down, but I'm also not sure how worth it it would be. Like I said, they'd have to really be interested in a second of those guys with no faith of them falling to 33.

 

[WSS11]

So I remember that DW had to trade up to get Couture all those years ago but had to go back to see the details. Turns out it was a similar situation. DW traded 13th, 44th, and a 3rd rounder to move up to 9th. I think our best bet would be if Iginla gets drafted before Calgary’s pick. They may be inclined to trade down. If Buium or Dickinson fall to 9 do you trade 14, 42, and the TB 3rd rounder? Maybe add one more pick like a 4th or 5th?

 

[spintops]

#1 Macklin
#14 MBN
#33+42 to move up for Emery.


See you guys at the parade

 

[NiWa]

So I remember that DW had to trade up to get Couture all those years ago but had to go back to see the details. Turns out it was a similar situation. DW traded 13th, 44th, and a 3rd rounder to move up to 9th. I think our best bet would be if Iginla gets drafted before Calgary’s pick. They may be inclined to trade down. If Buium or Dickinson fall to 9 do you trade 14, 42, and the TB 3rd rounder? Maybe add one more pick like a 4th or 5th?

If we are mocking Iginla to Calgary, and he is still on the board, couldn't we try to trade with NJ instead? They are looking to go C (Helenius is the consensus in mocks) but might also be happy with a winger (MBN being the rising "dark horse" among Devils fans).

They'd know we will be picking a D with #10, and so would BUF at #11. So they'd just have to worry about PHI/MIN picks.
While both are also mocked as taking forwards, if you are happy with say MBN, Sennecke, Chernyshov, Hage being there at 10, it could be a great opportunity for the Devils to trade back and get rewarded with another dart in round 2.

 

[Friday]

I think we over value these seconds. 2022 2nds (34th OV) Cam Lund and (45th OV) Havelid, no way you wouldn't trade the 14th + a Lund / Havelid level prospect for Buium or a Dickinson. The difference between 14th and 8th-11th is 14th is a top 9 winger and 8th ish a top pairing d man. Seems like a no brainer if another team bites

 

[WSS11]

I think we over value these seconds. 2022 2nds (34th OV) Cam Lund and (45th OV) Havelid, no way you wouldn't trade the 14th + a Lund / Havelid level prospect for Buium or a Dickinson. The difference between 14th and 8th-11th is 14th a top 9 winger and 8th ish a top pairing d man. Seems like a no brainer if another team bites

That’s where I’m at with this. I’d probably package 33 to move up to 8 or 9. Both of those D have a 1D ceiling. Coming out with Celebrini and Buium or Dickinson makes this an A++ draft no matter what happens with the other picks.

 

[Friday]

That’s where I’m at with this. I’d probably package 33 to move up to 8 or 9. Both of those D have a 1D ceiling. Coming out with Celebrini and Buium or Dickinson makes this an A++ draft no matter what happens with the other picks.

100% quality over quantity. Get the prospects you want at any pick cost who cares. 1C and 1D are the two hardest finds in a rebuild. Let errr rip

 

[Grinner]

#1 Macklin
#14 MBN
#33+42 to move up for Emery.


See you guys at the parade

2 out of 3.
Not bad
It would be a mistake to trade up for Emery

 

[WSS11]

If we are mocking Iginla to Calgary, and he is still on the board, couldn't we try to trade with NJ instead? They are looking to go C (Helenius is the consensus in mocks) but might also be happy with a winger (MBN being the rising "dark horse" among Devils fans).

They'd know we will be picking a D with #10, and so would BUF at #11. So they'd just have to worry about PHI/MIN picks.
While both are also mocked as taking forwards, if you are happy with say MBN, Sennecke, Chernyshov, Hage being there at 10, it could be a great opportunity for the Devils to trade back and get rewarded with another dart in round 2.

We could if they’re willing but I’ve seen NJ mocked grabbing both F and D. I just said Calgary at 9 because they’d be the more likely to deal imo. I think NJ would just want to grab Helenius.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

There's a couple teams to target for a trade up:

7 - Ottawa: Would cost a lot, but they have to give up a 1st round pick in the next few years so could use the extra picks now
9 - Calgary: Just starting the rebuild, could move back 5 spots for some early 2nd(s) like we did in 2022
10 - NJ: Have a lot of young players already, recoup some of the picks we took from them for moving back

Buffalo, Philly, Minny: Adding a very early 2nd could be more than enough incentive to drop back 1-3 spots if the guy they like is expected to drop/they aren't huge fans of any of them

 

[Alaskanice]

So I remember that DW had to trade up to get Couture all those years ago but had to go back to see the details. Turns out it was a similar situation. DW traded 13th, 44th, and a 3rd rounder to move up to 9th. I think our best bet would be if Iginla gets drafted before Calgary’s pick. They may be inclined to trade down. If Buium or Dickinson fall to 9 do you trade 14, 42, and the TB 3rd rounder? Maybe add one more pick like a 4th or 5th?

To me, this seems most likely because Calgary really wants Iginla, in my view. Like we did several drafts ago, when our guy went off the board, MGGM traded back.

 

[Jargon]

It’s a fascinating debate and I see both sides. Another way to look at is having 3 picks isn’t just 3 more chances at bat, it’s the potential to get more trade chips for future moves.

I absolutely hear trying to do everything we can to grab Buium. I mean, to me, that truly is a perfect draft (he’s Jewish and wears my number, I want him on the Sharks desperately) but I’m just not sure we have the pieces to move THAT high and I’m not sure guys like Parekh are worth it, they have too many risks.

It’s going to be a really fun draft.

 

[Gecklund]

But do any of them have that potential, of a franchise top pairing defenseman? I feel like Buium is closer to a #2 with an outside chance of becoming a #1. Maybe Levshunov if he puts it all together, but we’re not getting him.

Again, I really like Buium, I’d really have to think about trading all 3 picks for him. Maybe though? It depends how high our scouts are on him, ultimately.

Dmen potential is hard to predict. The position is just so hit or miss. The only dmen in the last 10 years that I remember as being recognized as franchise potential is Dahlin and I believe Ekblad was too.

 

[Hodge]

I'd rather have Adam Jiricek, 33 and 42 than Buium or Dickinson alone. I just don't think there's enough of a gap there to justify losing the extra lotto tickets.

Levshunov and Silayev are in a different tier. I would honestly trade all of our picks in this draft except #1 for a chance at either of them. Probably for Lindstrom too.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

So the history behind trading into the top ten with draft picks isn't lengthy in about 20 years of cap league hockey. I think the most useful example is from 2019 as it is the most recent example of someone moving up from 14 where Arizona traded 14 and 45 to Philly to get to 11. So I think 14 and 42 should get us to 10 if New Jersey would be interested. At this level of the draft though, there is no precedent for trading this far out into the top 10. When we made our move to get Couture, that is tied for the furthest jump up in a trade and it was only four slots. I don't think any team ahead of New Jersey will drop that much for a couple 2nds. I'd be alright with doing 14 and 42 for 10 to secure one of those defenseman but that's probably it.

Since the cap was brought in, there was a trade from #7 with #68 and the following year's 2nd to get to #5 (Toronto getting Luke Schenn), a trade from #9 with #40 to get to #7(Nashville getting Colin Wilson), a trade from #12 with #49 and a the following year's 3rd to get #8 (Setoguchi), and the Couture deal using #13, #44, and the following year's 3rd to get to #9. Out of all of that, only the Couture pick was really worth the movement. Yeah, Schenn, Wilson, and Setoguchi were NHL'ers but they weren't good players worth that draft position nor the assets moved up to get them. Cooch was the only one worth it.

To me, that information tells me that we're probably only going to be able to move up four or five spots at the most even if we have two 2nd rounders worth more than that. Moving from 14 to 9 or 10 would guarantee us one of the top six defensemen but these guys just don't scream franchise caliber defensemen either to make it worthwhile. They'd probably be top four caliber guys which we could still use but not enough to me to justify sacrificing another early pick to do it. Maybe if a consensus top five drops down to 10 like Levshunov but everyone else isn't really consensus top five.

Keep the picks, let it play out, and pick BPA. If we end the first two rounds with Celebrini, MBN, Emery, and Misa, I'd be perfectly content with that.

 

[coooldude]

I'd rather have Adam Jiricek, 33 and 42 than Buium or Dickinson alone. I just don't think there's enough of a gap there to justify losing the extra lotto tickets.

Levshunov and Silayev are in a different tier. I would honestly trade all of our picks in this draft except #1 for a chance at either of them. Probably for Lindstrom too.

If you value them that highly then that's a sound opinion.

I personally don't think the separation between Lev and e.g Yak, or Silayev and Dickinson, is that wide, and I only love Lindstrom if his back is healthy. So for me the trade up isn't worth it and the extra darts are worth it... Might consider 33+42 for a late 20s shot Emery, Solberg, Brunicke, Studnicka, or whoever the team fell in love with IF they fell in love with them. Otherwise use all three picks for the BPA (which will arguably be defense) and hope one of them turns into Hjalmarsson.

 

[landshark]

It’s a fascinating debate and I see both sides. Another way to look at is having 3 picks isn’t just 3 more chances at bat, it’s the potential to get more trade chips for future moves.

I absolutely hear trying to do everything we can to grab Buium. I mean, to me, that truly is a perfect draft (he’s Jewish and wears my number, I want him on the Sharks desperately) but I’m just not sure we have the pieces to move THAT high and I’m not sure guys like Parekh are worth it, they have too many risks.

It’s going to be a really fun draft.

I'm no theologist (clearly), but if Buium is Jewish, does that mean he wouldn't be able to play games on Friday night/Saturday day?

"Finishing" is on the list of no-nos from some very, very basic research into what is verboten on the Sabbath.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I'd rather have Adam Jiricek, 33 and 42 than Buium or Dickinson alone. I just don't think there's enough of a gap there to justify losing the extra lotto tickets.

Levshunov and Silayev are in a different tier. I would honestly trade all of our picks in this draft except #1 for a chance at either of them. Probably for Lindstrom too.

That all comes down to opinion, though. I have Buium ranked one spot over Levshunov and Dickinson a couple spots over Silayev. Lindstrom I’ll agree on.

I think Dickinson is the right trade up target, personally. He doesn’t have the upside of the other guys, but I really feel like he’s a guaranteed top-4 defenseman who could be a top pairing guy in his prime. He’s also probably only one year away from playing in the NHL, which is appealing even though it’s not overly relevant in the long-term.

So I remember that DW had to trade up to get Couture all those years ago but had to go back to see the details. Turns out it was a similar situation. DW traded 13th, 44th, and a 3rd rounder to move up to 9th. I think our best bet would be if Iginla gets drafted before Calgary’s pick. They may be inclined to trade down. If Buium or Dickinson fall to 9 do you trade 14, 42, and the TB 3rd rounder? Maybe add one more pick like a 4th or 5th?

I talked to some Devils fans and they were intrigued by 10 for 14+42 if their scouts felt comfortable with it. There was some Sabres fans amenable to trading down as well. The thing both of those teams have in common is that they have stacked prospect pools and value the types of guys who will be available at 14. I doubt Ottawa or Calgary fans would be so amenable, though that’s obviously not a reflection on what the actual management would do, so I feel like 10 is as high as we could realistically go without giving up both 33 and 42.

 

[Jargon]

I'm no theologist (clearly), but if Buium is Jewish, does that mean he wouldn't be able to play games on Friday night/Saturday day?

"Finishing" is on the list of no-nos from some very, very basic research into what is verboten on the Sabbath.

Hahah, if he is Orthodox, then that’s correct he wouldn’t be able to work on Friday nights/through Saturday. But I’m going to guess he is not.

 

[landshark]

Hahah, if he is Orthodox, then that’s correct he wouldn’t be able to work on Friday nights/through Saturday. But I’m going to guess he is not.

Oh, it's not all Jewish folks then? Neat!

I don't normally ask people about things like religion.

 

[Jargon]

Oh, it's not all Jewish folks then? Neat!

No, I’d say it’s not even the majority of us. There are 613 commandments — the very religious Jews try and follow those as best they can. Most of us lean far more into the cultural aspects of our Jewishness than the religious but there’s a very broad spectrum.

For example, I light candles on a Friday night and have a nice dinner. I use electronics etc but try VERY hard to do no work on Friday night/Saturday (which honestly is life changing, I recommend it) but will in an emergency.

We contain multititudes.