Blue Jays GDT: 2024 v3 | Thu, May 23 | @ Det | 6:30pm ET/3:30pm PT | Gausman vs Flaherty

[BehindTheTimes]

IKF hasn't been that bad so far. he's a utility guy,

KK, yeah especially that they knew that he had a nagging foot issue that bothered him for the 2nd half of last year and that he was rehabbing it in the offseason.

IKF was a dumb signing. The fact he hasn’t been terrible doesn’t change that, no one here was a fan of that move. Let’s not try to dress it up now.

 

[Eyedea]

IKF was a dumb signing. The fact he hasn’t been terrible doesn’t change that, no one here was a fan of that move. Let’s not try to dress it up now.

Now imagine if Espinal was still on the roster instead of IKF.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Now imagine if Espinal was still on the roster instead of IKF.

Now imagine trying to defend this signing with this nonsense. Like the options were only IKF or Espinal. Certain posters will defend every move. No matter how horrible.

 

[canucksfan]

IKF was a dumb signing. The fact he hasn’t been terrible doesn’t change that, no one here was a fan of that move. Let’s not try to dress it up now.

I thought it was at the time but he's on pace for a 2.0+ WAR season. That's fairly good. Keeping Kiermaier and not signing another good bat were bigger mistakes.

Could make an argument they didn't need him because they have a similar player in Clement and he's cheaper.

 

[Eyedea]

Now imagine trying to defend this signing with this nonsense. Like the options were only IKF or Espinal. Certain posters will defend every move. No matter how horrible.

It’s not even a bad signing in hindsight. rWAR he’s tied for 2nd on the team with Jansen and Vladdy. fWAR he’s 5th behind Varsho, Jansen, Schneider, and Vladdy.

It’s alright to change your perception of a deal. Whether he’s redundant or not, he’s on pace to provide surplus value while other options (Espinal, Biggio, even Clement) aren’t as good.

 

[Discoverer]

It’s not even a bad signing in hindsight. rWAR he’s tied for 2nd on the team with Jansen and Vladdy. fWAR he’s 5th behind Varsho, Jansen, Schneider, and Vladdy.

It’s alright to change your perception of a deal. Whether he’s redundant or not, he’s on pace to provide surplus value while other options (Espinal, Biggio, even Clement) aren’t as good.

Clement has been quite a bit better by both bWAR and fWAR... IKF just has 50% more playing time.

Regardless, this isn't a good time to be complaining about the IKF signing. I thought it was terrible at the time, but so far it's been a clear win. I'm not convinced he'll keep it up, but he's provided good value so far.

 

[Eyedea]

Clement has been quite a bit better by both bWAR and fWAR... IKF just has 50% more playing time.

Regardless, this isn't a good time to be complaining about the IKF signing. I thought it was terrible at the time, but so far it's been a clear win. I'm not convinced he'll keep it up, but he's provided good value so far.

Clement’s value is largely built on the bulk of his playing time against lefties. I don’t really see him getting in over IKF against righties.

 

[Bjindaho]

IKF was a dumb signing. The fact he hasn’t been terrible doesn’t change that, no one here was a fan of that move. Let’s not try to dress it up now.

At 7.5M, he's a luxury on a contender.

The issue was never that the Jays signed IKF (or even the role that he is playing). The issue is that the Jays pursued IKF instead of other options that could have improved the team.

 

[Puckstuff]

At 7.5M, he's a luxury on a contender.

The issue was never that the Jays signed IKF (or even the role that he is playing). The issue is that the Jays pursued IKF instead of other options that could have improved the team.

Perhaps they wouldn't have signed here but I wish the Jays signed Bellinger and Joc Pederson instead of our trio of mediocrity.

 

[Bjindaho]

Perhaps they wouldn't have signed here but I wish the Jays signed Bellinger and Joc Pederson instead of our trio of mediocrity.

Bellinger has both risks and the kind of contract that Toronto was never offering. Basically, if he's decent, he has a 1-year deal and if he sucks, he has a 3 year deal.

Joc Pederson is an interesting guy and I'm not really sure what happened with him.

The big issue (and it's been one for a while) is that the correct way to fix problems is to address them in a thought-out, intelligent manner. This is the exact opposite of what Toronto has done when they traded the 2nd best and 3rd best outfielder in the free agent market one year before free agency (one for a reliever, an incredible downgrade in value, and the other as a throw-in). After that, they traded a premium for a defense-first CF only to sign a defense-first CF and render him redundant.

The Belt signing was spectacular, and I'm a huge Turner fan BUT...
You don't add Turner, KK, and IKF and say that you've improved dramatically.

The way to fix the issues is either through trading or by developing better. Development and drafting falls on Shapiro/Atkins (Note: outside of Bo, the best prospect in terms of drafting/development in the Shapiro/Atkins era is arguably Manoah).

There were lots of debates about what should have happened and what did, but the long and short is that if the free agents weren't to management's liking, then management should have been acquiring players via trade.

One thing to note: Daniel Vogelbach was a spring training invite who has done nothing to justify being on this roster at this point. There hasn't been a valid reason why he's here over Horwitz at any point really and this will only get worse as other guys make cases why they should be up).

We are quickly approaching the point where Orelvis should be called up to be the every day 2B and see if he takes the spot and runs. Calling him up simply removes Vogelbach.

 

[Eyedea]

I’m pretty sure it’s been well documented that Joc preferred the west coast.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Bellinger has both risks and the kind of contract that Toronto was never offering. Basically, if he's decent, he has a 1-year deal and if he sucks, he has a 3 year deal.

Joc Pederson is an interesting guy and I'm not really sure what happened with him.

The big issue (and it's been one for a while) is that the correct way to fix problems is to address them in a thought-out, intelligent manner. This is the exact opposite of what Toronto has done when they traded the 2nd best and 3rd best outfielder in the free agent market one year before free agency (one for a reliever, an incredible downgrade in value, and the other as a throw-in). After that, they traded a premium for a defense-first CF only to sign a defense-first CF and render him redundant.

The Belt signing was spectacular, and I'm a huge Turner fan BUT...
You don't add Turner, KK, and IKF and say that you've improved dramatically.

The way to fix the issues is either through trading or by developing better. Development and drafting falls on Shapiro/Atkins (Note: outside of Bo, the best prospect in terms of drafting/development in the Shapiro/Atkins era is arguably Manoah).

There were lots of debates about what should have happened and what did, but the long and short is that if the free agents weren't to management's liking, then management should have been acquiring players via trade.

One thing to note: Daniel Vogelbach was a spring training invite who has done nothing to justify being on this roster at this point. There hasn't been a valid reason why he's here over Horwitz at any point really and this will only get worse as other guys make cases why they should be up).

We are quickly approaching the point where Orelvis should be called up to be the every day 2B and see if he takes the spot and runs. Calling him up simply removes Vogelbach.

Should have sucked harder I guess, like Baltimore, from 2017 till 2021. What did we get out of those years? Where is Gunnar Henderson? Or Jordan Westburg? Or Adley? Hopefully Orelvis turns out good.

 

[Bjindaho]

Should have sucked harder I guess, like Baltimore, from 2017 till 2021. What did we get out of those years? Where is Gunnar Henderson? Or Jordan Westburg? Or Adley? Hopefully Orelvis turns out good.

Gunnar was a 2nd rounder (like Bo) and Westburg was 30th overall. They have had 3 1st overalls, but they've had more success from their non-top picks than the Jays as well.

The Jays 1st rounders over that time are:
Warmoth (22nd)
Pearson (28)
Groshans (12)
Manoah (11)
Martin (5)
Hoglund (19)
Barriera (23)
Nimmala (20)

This is a terrifying list, where there are a few role players, a reliever who is still yo-yoing up and down 7 years after being drafted, Manoah (who is very good when he's on and hopefully comes back all the way from whatever last year was). It's a bit early on the last 3, but the early signs aren't super positive.

 

[Bjindaho]

The 2022 and 2023 are at least starting out better than the earlier years, but it is entirely possible that the best players from the 2017-2019 drafts are Schneider, Barger, Horwitz in that order (or that the Jays get 5 total players from those 3 years).



The beatings will continue until morale improves

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Another great pitching matchup. Hoping the Jays can get Bradish's pitch count up quickly

 

[Discoverer]

Gunnar was a 2nd rounder (like Bo) and Westburg was 30th overall. They have had 3 1st overalls, but they've had more success from their non-top picks than the Jays as well.

The Jays 1st rounders over that time are:
Warmoth (22nd)
Pearson (28)
Groshans (12)
Manoah (11)
Martin (5)
Hoglund (19)
Barriera (23)
Nimmala (20)

This is a terrifying list, where there are a few role players, a reliever who is still yo-yoing up and down 7 years after being drafted, Manoah (who is very good when he's on and hopefully comes back all the way from whatever last year was). It's a bit early on the last 3, but the early signs aren't super positive.

The one silver lining is that they managed to make great trades out of Martin and Hoglund before too much of the shine wore off.

 

[Bjindaho]

Good thing Baltimore didn't challenge. Bo was picked off there.

 

[Bjindaho]

And Vogelbach doesn't swing again

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Good ABs but nothing to show for it.

Don't know why Vogelbach even bothers bringing a bat to the plate since he never swings.

 

[Bjindaho]

Nice 10 pitch at bat from George leads to a double then he fails to advance on a fly out to right

 

[Bjindaho]

Don't look now, but Bo might be heating up

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Lol nice play. Kikuchi is rolling

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Hoping the Jays can get Bradish's pitch count up quickly

+ the lead!

 

[Bjindaho]

When in doubt, just strike everybody out

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

What the hell happened to Mullins? I know that heroic 2021 season wasn't repeatable, but his offensive numbers have declined every year since. He is a complete potato now