2024-25 Roster…too soon?

Space umpire

Registered User
Nov 15, 2018
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Cocoa Beach, Florida
Four top 20 DMan point finishes isn’t nothing, imo.
He’s (wrongly) been the scapegoat here because Bowman overpaid both in trade and contract.
He’s a #1 Dman without question and Vlasic gives him credit for letting him develop and covering early season mistakes.
Don’t pretend Vlasic doesn’t play a more confident game knowing Jones is there.

I don’t understand the hate. … or maybe I do.
 

TheFridge

Registered User
Mar 20, 2022
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Jones is not an offensively minded or gifted player. He's been miscast in Chicago. He is a top-pairing D, but he needs a good PMD to take the pressure of him to handle the puck. Jones' usefulness is in his size, reach and skating to get stops defensively. If he's staying in CHI long-term, we have to hope Korchinski can really pop as a transition D and if he can, he'll be an ideal partner for Jones -- like Werenski was in CBJ.
 
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ello

Registered User
Jun 12, 2018
889
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Jones is not an offensively minded or gifted player. He's been miscast in Chicago. He is a top-pairing D, but he needs a good PMD to take the pressure of him to handle the puck. Jones' usefulness is in his size, reach and skating to get stops defensively. If he's staying in CHI long-term, we have to hope Korchinski can really pop as a transition D and if he can, he'll be an ideal partner for Jones -- like Werenski was in CBJ.
Pretty crazy, Werenski put up a 47 point season at Korchinski's age. Not saying you're wrong about the comp at all, just an observation.
 

statswatcher

Registered User
Jul 27, 2022
132
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He’s a #1 Dman without question
no, there is very much a question. he ranks below 32nd among all defensemen in almost every conceivable metric throughout his career in chicago. i went over this not too long ago. so even going on the incredibly flawed definition of “top pairing defenseman” as “within the top 64 defensemen in the league”, he is only a #2 defenseman.

if you want to have faith in 9.5, go right ahead. people have faith in dumber things. i want to see results before i go around singing his praises, and believe me, i would be as happy as anyone else to see him actually live up to his reputation and contract. i would rather be wrong and have a bonafide #1 in jones than be right and have an albatross hanging on this team well into bedard’s second contract. i’m just not holding my breath for the former and expecting the latter is all.
 

HawksDub89

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Apr 17, 2019
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He’s (wrongly) been the scapegoat here because Bowman overpaid both in trade and contract.
He’s a #1 Dman without question and Vlasic gives him credit for letting him develop and covering early season mistakes.
Don’t pretend Vlasic doesn’t play a more confident game knowing Jones is there.

I don’t understand the hate. … or maybe I do.

The Seth Jones hate is one of the strangest Blackhawks fan occurrences I can remember. For the life of me I don’t get it.

Anyone who claims he sucks immediately loses any credibility.

He’s over payed by like 2 million. But he’s a good 2-3 D on most teams.

Be mad at Bowman for the contract, not Jones.
 
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HawksDub89

Registered User
Apr 17, 2019
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no, there is very much a question. he ranks below 32nd among all defensemen in almost every conceivable metric throughout his career in chicago. i went over this not too long ago. so even going on the incredibly flawed definition of “top pairing defenseman” as “within the top 64 defensemen in the league”, he is only a #2 defenseman.

if you want to have faith in 9.5, go right ahead. people have faith in dumber things. i want to see results before i go around singing his praises, and believe me, i would be as happy as anyone else to see him actually live up to his reputation and contract. i would rather be wrong and have a bonafide #1 in jones than be right and have an albatross hanging on this team well into bedard’s second contract. i’m just not holding my breath for the former and expecting the latter is all.

He’s never going to justify the 9.5 with results. So you may as well get over it.

I agree he’s not a true 1D, and he won’t be. But I do think he’ll be a solid top 4 D for the entirety of his contract.
 
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belfour30

Connor Bedard Fangirl
Dec 14, 2019
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The Seth Jones hate is one of the strangest Blackhawks fan occurrences I can remember. For the life of me I don’t get it.

Anyone who claims he sucks immediately loses any credibility.

He’s over payed by like 2 million. But he’s a good 2-3 D on most teams.

Be mad at Bowman for the contract, not Jones.
I think he's a definite top pairing D but only a #1 during his best games. And I think he'll be useful during his whole contract.
 

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
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I highly doubt you'll find a better RD than Jones with the cap space and blank spot during the duration of Bedard's second contract. Especially with that being the biggest hole in the prospect pool. He is overpaid but it is what it is. There's a reason guys like Bowman overpay in trade and contract to acquire a guy like Jones in the first place. RD is notoriously hard to fill and that's why so many teams have LD playing off-hand in that slot. You have to be kind of thick to believe the Hawks are no better with Jones than without him. You're essentially telling me you think Replacement Player (call him Louis Crevier) is Jones equal.
 
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Northernhawk

Registered User
Feb 22, 2020
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Bowman failed this team because of the Kyle Beach involvement
But he was not incharge, McD was

Bowman made many good moves to get the Hawks two more Cups(2013 and 2015) and close on a another occasion(2014) but that is forgotten

Bowman is remembered for the dismantling only
 
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giza

Registered User
Jul 19, 2011
1,334
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Jones most glaring weaknesses are on the PP......he seems lack creativity and fumbles the puck a lot, but he's a decent D man....can you win it all with him? I think so, but need the right partner and overall Top 4. Maybe he'll be better when the Hawks are challenging for a Playoff spot vs being a bottom dweller.
 

statswatcher

Registered User
Jul 27, 2022
132
126
He’s never going to justify the 9.5 with results. So you may as well get over it.
why would i get over being correct? what a silly non-argument. i’m not angry with seth jones for taking too much money from a guy desperate to save his job. i’m just calling it how i see it.

I highly doubt you'll find a better RD than Jones with the cap space and blank spot during the duration of Bedard's second contract.
let’s say this is the case. i would rather have 9.5 million dollars to spend on depth than one right handed defenseman that to my mind shouldn’t be on the top pair of a playoff team, much less a cup winner. if you disagree with me, fine. for me to change my mind would require jones to show me i’m wrong, and he has not come close to doing that.
 

HawksDub89

Registered User
Apr 17, 2019
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why would i get over being correct? what a silly non-argument. i’m not angry with seth jones for taking too much money from a guy desperate to save his job. i’m just calling it how i see it.


let’s say this is the case. i would rather have 9.5 million dollars to spend on depth than one right handed defenseman that to my mind shouldn’t be on the top pair of a playoff team, much less a cup winner. if you disagree with me, fine. for me to change my mind would require jones to show me i’m wrong, and he has not come close to doing that.

Lol yeah you’re definitely not upset about it.

Two giant paragraphs about it…

It’s gonna be ok

why would i get over being correct? what a silly non-argument. i’m not angry with seth jones for taking too much money from a guy desperate to save his job. i’m just calling it how i see it.


let’s say this is the case. i would rather have 9.5 million dollars to spend on depth than one right handed defenseman that to my mind shouldn’t be on the top pair of a playoff team, much less a cup winner. if you disagree with me, fine. for me to change my mind would require jones to show me i’m wrong, and he has not come close to doing that.

And again, he’s not going to produce like a 9.5 million defender. You’re essentially arguing with yourself over this lol.

Nobody thinks he’s worth that money.
 

statswatcher

Registered User
Jul 27, 2022
132
126
Lol yeah you’re definitely not upset about it.

Two giant paragraphs about it…
again, silly non-argument. i enjoy talking about hockey. i especially like talking about hockey when i disagree with what people are saying. in your mind does someone have to have literal tears flowing down their face to write two whole paragraphs?
Nobody thinks he’s worth that money.
great, then we're on the same page. what's your issue?
 
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Castle8130

Registered User
May 9, 2017
2,778
2,087
Jones is not an offensively minded or gifted player. He's been miscast in Chicago. He is a top-pairing D, but he needs a good PMD to take the pressure of him to handle the puck. Jones' usefulness is in his size, reach and skating to get stops defensively. If he's staying in CHI long-term, we have to hope Korchinski can really pop as a transition D and if he can, he'll be an ideal partner for Jones -- like Werenski was in CBJ.
I've been floating the idea that he could get moved by KD in the next year or two.


What is everybody's thoughts on keeping or selling Jones? His contract will only get better as the cap continues to rise. He is a #2-3 guy that I'm sure an ascending team would be interested in. What do you all think of his trade value?

I'd be okay keeping him, but he could be worth as high as a top 10 pick + prospect/depth player
 

Mrfenn92

Proud to be American
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Nov 27, 2018
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I've been floating the idea that he could get moved by KD in the next year or two.


What is everybody's thoughts on keeping or selling Jones? His contract will only get better as the cap continues to rise. He is a #2-3 guy that I'm sure an ascending team would be interested in. What do you all think of his trade value?

I'd be okay keeping him, but he could be worth as high as a top 10 pick + prospect/depth player
I think less could be a lot more for Seth. Less ice time and less power play responsibilities should they be able to cover that stuff up with the younger guys potentially ascending.

I don’t mind Seth. He eats lots of tough minutes for the team. Not always pretty but it’s a terrible team.

His contract length is the thing I would love gone from the books.

But he controls all with a NMC.
 

u2wojo

Registered User
Dec 22, 2011
843
598
why would i get over being correct? what a silly non-argument. i’m not angry with seth jones for taking too much money from a guy desperate to save his job. i’m just calling it how i see it.


let’s say this is the case. i would rather have 9.5 million dollars to spend on depth than one right handed defenseman that to my mind shouldn’t be on the top pair of a playoff team, much less a cup winner. if you disagree with me, fine. for me to change my mind would require jones to show me i’m wrong, and he has not come close to doing that.
The last time we got to experience a Cup winner, Seabrook was our top RHD eating 9.76% of the cap and Jones is at 11.4%. With the cap slated to go up the next 2 Summer, by the time this franchise has any chance of competing for anything meaningful, the Jones cap hit percentage will be lower than what Seabs was the last Cup.

The problem is not Jones or even what he makes. The problem is no Keith, Hjammer, Kane, Toews, or Hossa to play with him. Bedard and Vlassic look like they are trending toward filling the Kane/Hjammer roles so we are left trying to find Toews, Hossa, & Keith which is no small feet but the reality of where we are at at the infancy of a rebuild. Lucking into Celebrini and having Korchinski take a major development step would be a massive step forward.
 

Kevin Musto

Hard for Bedard
Feb 16, 2018
21,190
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I've been floating the idea that he could get moved by KD in the next year or two.


What is everybody's thoughts on keeping or selling Jones? His contract will only get better as the cap continues to rise. He is a #2-3 guy that I'm sure an ascending team would be interested in. What do you all think of his trade value?

I'd be okay keeping him, but he could be worth as high as a top 10 pick + prospect/depth player
It's the opposite.

Seth Jones will only continue to decline from here on out.

It's in Kyle's best interest to move that contract as soon as possible. And he should do so even if he gets nothing of value in return.

Too many people make a big deal about the minutes he plays. Sign Christopher Tanev to a big 2 year contract, and boom you have your replacement set. Maybe also bring in Kevin Shattenkirk on a 1 year deal. Let the kids handle the rest.

Vlasic-Tanev
Korchinski-Murphy
Allan/Kaiser/EDM/Phillips-Shattenkirk
 
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Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
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London, Ont.
I've been floating the idea that he could get moved by KD in the next year or two.


What is everybody's thoughts on keeping or selling Jones? His contract will only get better as the cap continues to rise. He is a #2-3 guy that I'm sure an ascending team would be interested in. What do you all think of his trade value?

I'd be okay keeping him, but he could be worth as high as a top 10 pick + prospect/depth player
No one is giving up a 1st round pick for Jones, let alone a top 10 pick +.
 

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
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It's a race between a rising cap, lowering his % cap hit and Seth Jones aging and possibly declining. History has shown that race can go either way. Look at how great Marchand's contract is for Boston right now.
 
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WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
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But his contract was never bad, Seth Jones' was bad the minute he signed it.
He's really not though. People are just kinda dumb about defensemen, you sign a Forward for too much money, he puts up 60 points and people go "well he makes too much money but a 60 point player is still valuable." You sign a Defenseman that is asked to do too much and play all the best competition and people suddenly think an AHL guy is better.
 
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DisgruntledHawkFan

Blackhawk Down
Jun 19, 2004
57,421
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South Side
He's really not though. People are just kinda dumb about defensemen, you sign a Forward for too much money, he puts up 60 points and people go "well he makes too much money but a 60 point player is still valuable." You sign a Defensemen that is asked to do too much and play all the best competition and people suddenly think an AHL guy is better.
Marchand signed a market deal after a sixty one point season and exploded right after.
 

x Tame Impala

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I don't think it's realistic for him to be traded. 6 more years at $9.5 AAV with a NMC until his contract ends. He'd have to 1) Want to be traded in the first place and 2) has full control over where he wants to go. I don't see it happening.

This Vlassic contract is a godsend if he keeps progressing because it means we've got 2 top 3 dmen locked up for a combined AAV of $14.1m...not terrible. Jones looks like he won't be that elite 1D who tilts the ice like I had hoped he'd be when the trade and contract happened but we've just got to hope his play improves as the roster around him improves. I think that's the likely outcome rather than him being traded and off our hands.
 

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