OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: New season of plundering begins

[WickedWrister]

 

[ChaosAgent]

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Ridiculous.

Kyle Hendricks is getting calls he doesn't deserve.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Seems like the pirates really need to start investing in acquiring hitters and soon. They basically have 2 aces and a decent number 3 in Keller. No reason to sit tight with mediocre hitting at several positions.

Only saw skenes highlights from yesterday, but my goodness what a performance.

I am not sure who is a marquee guy that may be available.

They could feasibly throw the kitchen sink at acquiring Luis Robert.
Some sort of deal like (2024 1st as PTBNL or Johnson or Chandler) + Suwinski + Thomas Harrington or Priester. I realize this sounds gross but that's probably in the ballpark of what it would take.

No question that Johnson's value is way down given his terrible start this year. But he is just 20 and has great pedigree and a great 2023.
I'm both high on Chandler and not as high as this board generally is. He clearly has a ton of talent and I think we are kinda transferring Jones' ascension to Chandler's prospect status. But maybe the CWS would also feel that way.
If I were CWS I would want to pick MY player at #9 vs. taking a flyer on Termarr.

 

[ChaosAgent]

So we'll be significant underdogs tomorrow with Imanaga. I would go with 9 righties in the lineup. Cruz needs a day off against a lefty.

DH Cutch
LF Reynolds
1B Joe
RF Olivares
2B Gonzo
3B Triolo
CF Taylor
C Bart
SS Williams

Pinch hit Cruz if needed later.

Bump...blind squirrel found nut

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I think it's definitely the right move to give Cruz a breather vs Imanaga. Having him as an option to pinch hit vs. a righty reliever is also a good card to keep in your hand, depending on whether Falter can keep it close.

In terms of trading for a bat, it's hard to say this early, and young impact talent is going to take an enormous haul since hitters don't carry the same injury risk as pitchers. I think @ChaosAgent is in the ballpark for what Robert might cost, though he's also tricky to ballpark right now because he has basically been hurt all year and is also actually making a decent amount of money, which doesn't give him the disproportionate value that team control players sometimes have.

The player I'd most want to target is Jazz Chisholm. He's putting together a nice campaign though not yet what his peak could be given the raw skills. The Marlins are in a total disaster of a season and I fully expect them to do as much trading as they can do.

Unless I am mistaken, they still have the same pitching group that helped develop them into a powerhouse before all of the terrible injury luck that they've had. Trading Jazz would be a hard pill to swallow since offense is their problem, but I think they are also pretty cold blooded about the kind of approach they want to take. Last year was a fluke nice run to the playoffs, but now it's time to pivot and aim at a window that's after the current Phillies and to some extent Braves are older.

Not sure how to ballpark a trade exactly, but we have enough SP depth to include multiple pitching prospects in a deal which rebuilding teams always like. I'm very wary of throwing around Chandler or TJ in trade proposals but when you are wishcasting for guys like Robert or Jazz it's kind of hard to be picky.

I believe Jazz has 2.5 years of control remaining. It's a shame that Suwinski's value has to be in the toilet right now, because Jazz isn't a platoon partner and Suwinski probably isn't going to have any value to a team that is fulling stripping things down to the bolts. He's probably just a separate issue who we have to figure out and hope he gets going somehow. Besides Johnson, the other MiLB guy who would be nice to have going to dangle in a trade is Lonnie White Jr. Frustrating that both guys are off to cold starts in a very hitter friendly environment.

Anyways, I think Jazz is slightly more obtainable in a deal and will also be cheaper financially than Robert. He's an organizational need and he's someone who I don't think we've seen reach his right tail outcome just yet. He's also an incredibly fun player... imagining both him and Cruz in the lineup with the steadier Reynolds and non-IL Hayes is pretty tantalizing. If we could somehow float Nick Kurtz down to our pick in the draft, that's a nice hitting core and Kurtz could move quick. He's a topic for another day, but I think he's actually feasible if Oakland isn't going to take him: figure he won't go 1-3 because Rockies will take a pitcher, and then if he gets past Oakland, our draft pool is only 593,000 less than the White Sox -- a lot of money in this context, but with a deep draft and presuming that they'd want to spread the money around more, might be an edge. Then the Royals likely aren't looking 1B and we have more spending power than both the Cardinals and Angels.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think it's definitely the right move to give Cruz a breather vs Imanaga. Having him as an option to pinch hit vs. a righty reliever is also a good card to keep in your hand, depending on whether Falter can keep it close.

In terms of trading for a bat, it's hard to say this early, and young impact talent is going to take an enormous haul since hitters don't carry the same injury risk as pitchers. I think @ChaosAgent is in the ballpark for what Robert might cost, though he's also tricky to ballpark right now because he has basically been hurt all year and is also actually making a decent amount of money, which doesn't give him the disproportionate value that team control players sometimes have.

The player I'd most want to target is Jazz Chisholm. He's putting together a nice campaign though not yet what his peak could be given the raw skills. The Marlins are in a total disaster of a season and I fully expect them to do as much trading as they can do.

Unless I am mistaken, they still have the same pitching group that helped develop them into a powerhouse before all of the terrible injury luck that they've had. Trading Jazz would be a hard pill to swallow since offense is their problem, but I think they are also pretty cold blooded about the kind of approach they want to take. Last year was a fluke nice run to the playoffs, but now it's time to pivot and aim at a window that's after the current Phillies and to some extent Braves are older.

Not sure how to ballpark a trade exactly, but we have enough SP depth to include multiple pitching prospects in a deal which rebuilding teams always like. I'm very wary of throwing around Chandler or TJ in trade proposals but when you are wishcasting for guys like Robert or Jazz it's kind of hard to be picky.

I believe Jazz has 2.5 years of control remaining. It's a shame that Suwinski's value has to be in the toilet right now, because Jazz isn't a platoon partner and Suwinski probably isn't going to have any value to a team that is fulling stripping things down to the bolts. He's probably just a separate issue who we have to figure out and hope he gets going somehow. Besides Johnson, the other MiLB guy who would be nice to have going to dangle in a trade is Lonnie White Jr. Frustrating that both guys are off to cold starts in a very hitter friendly environment.

Anyways, I think Jazz is slightly more obtainable in a deal and will also be cheaper financially than Robert. He's an organizational need and he's someone who I don't think we've seen reach his right tail outcome just yet. He's also an incredibly fun player... imagining both him and Cruz in the lineup with the steadier Reynolds and non-IL Hayes is pretty tantalizing. If we could somehow float Nick Kurtz down to our pick in the draft, that's a nice hitting core and Kurtz could move quick. He's a topic for another day, but I think he's actually feasible if Oakland isn't going to take him: figure he won't go 1-3 because Rockies will take a pitcher, and then if he gets past Oakland, our draft pool is only 593,000 less than the White Sox -- a lot of money in this context, but with a deep draft and presuming that they'd want to spread the money around more, might be an edge. Then the Royals likely aren't looking 1B and we have more spending power than both the Cardinals and Angels.

https://www.mlb.com/news/padres-marlins-luis-arraez-trade

I think the Marlins are in a pretty similar spot to us, starved for hitting, which is why they got 3 hitting prospects in the Arraez trade. I think Arraez and Chisholm also have similar values and team control.

I like Chisholm quite a bit but not sure these two teams match up well anymore. I don't believe Endy is trade able, being injured - he would probably get it done 1 for 1. (This also underscores how badly we need Endy to bounce back in 2025 - he was miserable at the dish in 2023 IMO. So much soft contact. But I'm holding out hope with him.)

Barring Endy, I think the two best hitting headliners in a Chisholm trade would be Termarr or Davis, actually. I bet the Pirates and Miami had discussions involving Davis a few months ago. He is clearly lost in the forest of pain right now, but there's a good chance he snaps out of it eventually and he has some viability as a catcher as he has shown. At the same time, it would be a very bitter pill to swallow for Miami to trade Jazz for a reclamation project.

If it helped the trade, I would take Bell back and eat the money. He is snapping out of it at the dish and I think Joe is a pretty good defender in RF to ensure he faces most righties.

Something in the ballpark of -
To PIT: Chisholm, Bell
To MIA: Davis, Brannigan, Harrington, Tellez, Jebb or Cheng

Could work.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Pirates are realistically not going to trade a ton of futures for win-now help, it just isn't how they operate. With that being said, I think a more reasonable target with the Marlins could be Jake Burger, who's having an awful year this year but was a terrific hitting 1B/3B before it. He has a career .251/.309/.501 slash line before this year and doesn't have a huge split difference between righties and lefties (.765 OPS against righties, .811 OPS against lefties).

He has been bad this year, but his underlying numbers aren't quite as bad as his overall numbers are. His expected slash line right now is .224/.289/.407, which is clearly not good but also not as bad as .188/.223/.313 slash line he has right now. I actually wonder if a Suwinski for Burger straight-up swap could make sense, two reclamation projects swapping for each other while Burger fills a big need for the Pirates.

 

[sovietsanta87]

I don’t see Miami dealing Chisholm unless they’re blown away with an offer. He’s still on an affordable contract and has a couple more years of arbitration whereas Arraez was making ten mil to hit singles.

In an ideal world, you get another big year out of Solomento/chandler and deal one of them to Baltimore for a player like Coby Mayo (who just fractured his ribs) or Kjerstad.

Luis Robert is way too much risk for the money. A lot of tools but often injured, playing poorly, owed 15 mil in 25. Club option 20 mil in 26-27

Maybe we need to come up with a list. Separate by “dream scenario” vs “realistic”. Because I can see this team making zero impactful moves until after the draft and seeing where they are in the standings.

Even then, if they’re in contention for the wild card, they’ll most like flip a B prospect for an ok, Connor joe-esque hitter

 

[Empoleon8771]

Even then, if they’re in contention for the wild card, they’ll most like flip a B prospect for an ok, Connor joe-esque hitter

Yeah if we're talking Miami, I figure something like this with Jake Burger would be more realistic.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Damn Gonzales nearly got a HR in his AB, just a bit short of getting out. 102.4 MPH off the bat and 29 degree launch angle, that's usually a HR with those numbers.

 

[metalan2]

Our best players last 2 months of the season that carried the Pirates offense -

Palacious
Andujar
Peguero
Hayes

Why do we not have Palacious and Peguero on this team over scrubs like Williams and Taylor or Suwinsky? We should have kept Andujar too.

 

[sovietsanta87]

Colorado could be an interesting trade partner. They always need pitching. Saw they won like 7 in a row yet they’re 14 games under 500

 

[Empoleon8771]

Another ball cranked by Gonzales, this time a 100.4 MPH EV lineout to RF. He's getting some awful BABIP luck this game, that could have easily been a HR and double but it was instead 2 flyouts.

 

[metalan2]

Wow what bad luck for Gonzalez. Those are two hits in almost any game.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Hard to ask for much more out of Falter, especially if he can turn in another clean frame or even get into the 7th.

Stay close, and maybe we'll be the team who gets the lucky bounce or has someone run into a fastball and keep it fair.

I think I'd just ride Falter until he shows any kind of weakness or traffic. We have the off day on Monday but I'd rather keep whatever good options we have in the bullpen as fresh as possible for tomorrow when we have the advantage in Keller vs. Taillon. The Cubs have not looked good at all against him, but pitching to contact can only get you so far. I'd look to get through the 6th and then see if he can squeak out the 7th.

 

[metalan2]

I just don't get why every single person in the Pirates is a terrible base runner?

Not like it matters with Taylor coming up to bat. More likely to see a unicorn than him getting a hit.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Tremendous work by Falter but this is now a golden opportunity to steal a game and really steal some positive momentum.

 

[metalan2]

It's a damn shame our offense is this pathetic. Can't squeak out 1 run in one of the best pitching performances by a Pirate in like 20 years.

 

[sovietsanta87]

Reynolds strikes out despite not a single pitch being in the zone.

It's a damn shame our offense is this pathetic. Can't squeak out 1 run in one of the best pitching performances by a Pirate in like 20 years.

You think that’s bad, imagine not being able to score off of Bailey falter

 

[ChaosAgent]

The umps are really a disgrace. Shelton needs to get himself tossed.

 

[metalan2]

Reynolds strikes out despite not a single pitch being in the zone.


You think that’s bad, imagine not being able to score off of Bailey falter

Let's face it, this team is a three headed monster now. Skenes, Jones, Falter.

Lol routine grounder to second, absolutely no one there for some reason.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I was about to criticize Joe going home to Bart there, but I actually don't know that they would have been able to turn the double play on that. Unconventional but it prevented the run from being scored.

 

[metalan2]

There is zero reason to remove Falter. Zero.

 

[MrBrightside]

I would have left Falter in to finish that inning. Far more trust in him than the pen right now.

-Sentences I never thought I'd write back in March for $100

 

[ChaosAgent]

Absurd performance by Falter.

I like the Pirates 4D chess in getting dominated by Imanaga, to ensure that neither Skenes nor Jones finishes top 2 in ROY. I do think they were close to getting him, which would have been amazing. Could you imagine Imanaga in this rotation? Holy.