Proposal: NJ-MTL

[Junohockeyfan]

Not below avg at all

Way way way, below average. He's a bad skater. Its one of the reasons why he is poor defensively.

I made the point that Hughes traded a similar D for a similar pick two years ago.

I made the point that Hughes traded for a similar player to Holtz last year.

I made the point that Holtz fits the profile of players that Hughes has traded for two years in a row and plays a position MTL is weak at.

I made the point that although losing Guhle would hurt, they would be trading from an area of strength and depth and bolstering areas of need with this deal.


That’s a strawman argument (not my fault it’s ubiquitous on HFBoards). I said they’re similar in age, production, and situation.

Another strawman argument. I said he’s the best D overall on the team, and plays more minutes in all situations than Guhle.

More insults because that’s all you’re capable of articulating.

I made the point that Holtz is not similar to Newhook.
I made the point that Matheson is not a good overall dman. He's a one-dimensional dman. Guhle is a much better all-round dman with many years of development yet to be had. He's is tracking towards a top pairing dman. We aren't trading that.

Why has no Habs fans agreed with you? Could it be that your proposal is ridiculous and garbage and yuk? And that's not an insult, that's facts!!!

 

[Garbageyuk]

Your facts are complete alternate reality.

The Romanov trade is alternate reality?

The Newhook trade is alternate reality?

The Habs being weak at LW is alternate reality?

The Habs having surplus at LD is alternate reality?

The proposal in the OP fitting the profile of the type of moves Hughes has made recently is alternate reality?

You being unable to have an adult discussion without throwing a tantrum and slinging juvenile insults like a middle schooler is alternate reality?

What reality are you living in?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

The Romanov trade is alternate reality?

The Newhook trade is alternate reality?

The Habs being weak at LW is alternate reality?

The Habs having surplus at LD is alternate reality?

The proposal in the OP fitting the profile of the type of moves Hughes has made recently is alternate reality?

What reality are you living in?

Surplus LD does not equal star quality LD.
Habs traded for a player in Newhook that fit the team DNA. Holtz does not fit the team. He's terrible defensively, slow and one-dimensional.
Matheson is not good defensively. (you seem to think he is)
The proposal in the OP was rejected by every Habs fan in here.

Why do all Habs fans think you are out to lunch? Every single one of us disagree with you. WHy is that?

 

[Xirik]

I don't think it's a good deal for the Habs but perhaps a more articulate and less rude Habs fan can say why instead the current guy?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I don't think it's a good deal for the Habs but perhaps a more articulate and less rude Habs fan can say why instead the current guy?

Oh look who graced us with his presence! Where ya been?

 

[Garbageyuk]

Surplus LD does not equal star quality LD.
Habs traded for a player in Newhook that fit the team DNA. Holtz does not fit the team. He's terrible defensively, slow and one-dimensional.
Matheson is not good defensively. (you seem to think he is)
The proposal in the OP was rejected by every Habs fan in here.

Why do all Habs fans think you are out to lunch? Every single one of us disagree with you. WHy is that?

Popular opinion doesn’t dictate reality, what is accurate or factual, or what is likely to happen.

Remember how Jets fans acted about the Monahan for 1st deal? (someone proposed it before it happened)

They said Monahan was trash, it would never happen, Habs fans are crazy, on and on.

What ended up happening and what was the return?

 

[dgibb10]

Surplus LD does not equal star quality LD.
Habs traded for a player in Newhook that fit the team DNA. Holtz does not fit the team. He's terrible defensively, slow and one-dimensional.
Matheson is not good defensively. (you seem to think he is)
The proposal in the OP was rejected by every Habs fan in here.

Why do all Habs fans think you are out to lunch? Every single one of us disagree with you. WHy is that?

Habs fans being quite notably one of the most biased fanbases in the NHL may play a factor

 

[Smitty426]

Way way way, below average. He's a bad skater. Its one of the reasons why he is poor defensively.

I might agree last year but he did alot if work in the summer. You're not right here. He makes bad passes in his own zone and management hates him for it. You guys don't want him and that's fine, the 10OA and Holtz isn't happening

 

[dgibb10]

I might agree last year but he did alot if work in the summer. You're not right here. He makes bad passes in his own zone abd management hates him for it. You guys don't want him and that's fine, the 10OA and Holtz isn't happening

He's also still working on his defensive zone positioning as well.

Honestly though, his effort and willingness to backcheck is something that stands out to me a lot watching games. He skates back HARD.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Habs fans being quite notably one of the most biased fanbases in the NHL may play a factor

Then why do NJD fans agree with Habs fans that the OPs post does not favor the Habs? Bunch of NJ homers too?

He's also still working on his defensive zone positioning as well.

Honestly though, his effort and willingness to backcheck is something that stands out to me a lot watching games. He skates back HARD.

He's a terrible backchecker because of his lack of speed. Skating hard and actually skating fast are too different things. David Savard skates hard too!

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Popular opinion doesn’t dictate reality, what is accurate or factual, or what is likely to happen.

Remember how Jets fans acted about the Monahan for 1st deal? (someone proposed it before it happened)

They said Monahan was trash, it would never happen, Habs fans are crazy, on and on.

What ended up happening and what was the return?

Being the only one to think his ridiculous proposal has merit, only to be told "no its not good for the Habs" by both fanbases.

Well that either means everyone in this thread is wrong, except you.... Or.... well i will let you finish that thought.

Will leave it at that. You be you!

 

[Xirik]

- Value wise Defenesman > Wingers

- You know what Guhle is while Holtz's future is unknown

-Holtz is an average Skater

- Poor man's Toffoli is not an apt comparison at all. He could be worse then then him or better, Feels like a comparison with not much thought put into it.

- Trades for reclamation/ change of scenery trades happen all the time

- It's rarely a player for player trade instead its usually a player for a pick

- Habs have done these type of trades before

I'd do the Holtz for the 27th pick, He is currently a 3rd liner that has a CHANCE at being a 2nd liner depending on linemates as most snipers need specific type of teammates to realize their potential.

Does he fit what the Habs a building? I don't know, If he isn't then keep the pick and hope the 50/50 coin flip of the player the Habs selected will play more then a 100 games.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Being the only one to think his ridiculous proposal has merit, only to be told "no its not good for the Habs" by both fanbases.

Well that either means everyone in this thread is wrong, except you.... Or.... well i will let you finish that thought.

Will leave it at that. You be you!

You glossed over the point yet again. Like I said, the same thing happened in the Monahan for 1st thread. It happened anyway. Hughes has made similar deals to the OP in the last two years. Reality must be crazy for you. We’ll leave it at that.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

- Value wise Defenesman > Wingers

- You know what Guhle is while Holtz's future is unknown

-Holtz is an average Skater

- Poor man's Toffoli is not an apt comparison at all. He could be worse then then him or better, Feels like a comparison with not much thought put into it.

- Trades for reclamation/ change of scenery trades happen all the time

- It's rarely a player for player trade instead its usually a player for a pick

- Habs have done these type of trades before

I'd do the Holtz for the 27th pick, He is currently a 3rd liner that has a CHANCE at being a 2nd liner depending on linemates as most snipers need specific type of teammates to realize their potential.

Does he fit what the Habs a building? I don't know, If he isn't then keep the pick and hope the 50/50 coin flip of the player the Habs selected will play more then a 100 games.

I would rather have a coin flip than a one-dimensional shooter who is a poor skater and who can't play D worth a lick. He would get benched often. He doesn't fit in the bottom 6 because of his defensive shortcomings. Doesn't do enough in the top-6. I just don't see a fit with the Habs.

He might be better suited for the Jets or Calgary. Teams that can better insulate him and may have an opening for him as a pure shooter. Jet's may trade the Habs 2nd for Holtz. I think that is fair value.

You glossed over the point yet again. Like I said, the same thing happened in the Monahan for 1st thread. It happened anyway. Hughes has made similar deals to the OP in the last two years. Reality must be crazy for you. We’ll leave it at that.

You ignored my point that everyone in this thread disagrees with you. Why is it that you feel you are right when no one agrees?

 

[CanadienShark]

I made the point that Hughes traded a similar D for a similar pick two years ago.

I made the point that Hughes traded for a similar player to Holtz last year.

I made the point that Holtz fits the profile of players that Hughes has traded for two years in a row and plays a position MTL is weak at.

I made the point that although losing Guhle would hurt, they would be trading from an area of strength and depth and bolstering areas of need with this deal.


That’s a strawman argument (not my fault it’s ubiquitous on HFBoards). I said they’re similar in age, production, and situation.

Another strawman argument. I said he’s the best D overall on the team, and plays more minutes in all situations than Guhle.

More insults because that’s all you’re capable of articulating.

I'm not sure you know what a strawman argument is. Repeating the term doesn't make it accurate.

 

[dgibb10]

- Value wise Defenesman > Wingers

- You know what Guhle is while Holtz's future is unknown

-Holtz is an average Skater

- Poor man's Toffoli is not an apt comparison at all. He could be worse then then him or better, Feels like a comparison with not much thought put into it.

- Trades for reclamation/ change of scenery trades happen all the time

- It's rarely a player for player trade instead its usually a player for a pick

- Habs have done these type of trades before

I'd do the Holtz for the 27th pick, He is currently a 3rd liner that has a CHANCE at being a 2nd liner depending on linemates as most snipers need specific type of teammates to realize their potential.

Does he fit what the Habs a building? I don't know, If he isn't then keep the pick and hope the 50/50 coin flip of the player the Habs selected will play more then a 100 games.

I would not trade Holtz for 27th. I would be completely unsurprised if he, given proper opportunity, such as PP1 time and top 6 minutes, turned into a 30+ goal scorer as soon as next year.

Maybe he's not the fit in NJD anymore, but if I'm moving him it better be to get me a quality dman or high tier goalie

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I would not trade Holtz for 27th. I would be completely unsurprised if he, given proper opportunity, such as PP1 time and top 6 minutes, turned into a 30+ goal scorer as soon as next year.

Maybe he's not the fit in NJD anymore, but if I'm moving him it better be to get me a quality dman or high tier goalie

You are not getting a quality dman or high tier goalie for Holtz. lol

I can see the Jets trading the Habs 2nd round pick and a small add if needed.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I'm not sure you know what a strawman argument is. Repeating the term doesn't make it accurate.

A strawman argument is where he claims I said something different than what I actually said and tailors his response to that because it’s easier to tear down than what I actually said. That’s exactly what he did. I’m not sure you know what it is at this point.

 

[CanadienShark]

A strawman argument is where he claims I said something different than what I actually said and tailors his response to that because it’s easier to tear down than what I actually said. That’s exactly what he did. I’m not sure you know what it is at this point.

Congratulations, you googled the definition. That doesn't make your use of the term correct.

 

[Xirik]

I would not trade Holtz for 27th. I would be completely unsurprised if he, given proper opportunity, such as PP1 time and top 6 minutes, turned into a 30+ goal scorer as soon as next year.

Maybe he's not the fit in NJD anymore, but if I'm moving him it better be to get me a quality dman or high tier goalie

I don't think Holtz will get that PP1 time and if he does it will be for a short time and boy would he have to hit the ground running. If he is treated the same as he was last year which has big chance of happening he will be PP2 and a 3rd liner.

He Isn't worth a high tier goalie now or a high tier Dman now, Next offseason he'll be worth even less.

Holtz's development by the Devils organization has sucked and it would be a miracle if that somehow changed next season.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

A strawman argument is where he claims I said something different than what I actually said and tailors his response to that because it’s easier to tear down than what I actually said. That’s exactly what he did. I’m not sure you know what it is at this point.

You said Hotlz is exactly the same as Newhook (false. Completely different players)
You claimed Matheson is a better defensively player than Guhle based on minutes played (false)

I claimed exactly what you said.

You just like to dodge the fact that no on in this thread agrees with you - Yet you feel you are right. I just don't understand why you think this way. Are you that arrogant that you think you know better than everyone in this thread, and know better than all Habs fans in this thread?

 

[dgibb10]

I don't think Holtz will get that PP1 time and if he does it will be for a short time and boy would he have to hit the ground running. If he is treated the same as he was last year which has big chance of happening he will be PP2 and a 3rd liner.

He Isn't worth a high tier goalie now or a high tier Dman now, Next offseason he'll be worth even less.

In terms of PP1 time I don't think that would be in NJD. I was talking about if we trade him to let's say washington. I think he'd hit 30 goals next year.

I am very happy to keep him and let him become a top 6 LW to fill that hole we have for cheap

 

[Forge]

I can see the Jets trading the Habs 2nd round pick and a small add if needed.

I'd do that, as a devils fan.

 

[Xirik]

You are not getting a quality dman or high tier goalie for Holtz. lol

I can see the Jets trading the Habs 2nd round pick and a small add if needed.

Huh, Bust to being worth the 37th pick.

Guess Juno's small heart has grown two Holtz's today.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I'd do that, as a devils fan.

I think its a good deal for both teams.

Huh, Bust to being worth the 37th pick.

Guess Juno's small heart has grown two Holtz's today.

One man's bust, is another's poor man's Toffoli. Jet's may see him as a possible replacement if they can acquire for a reasonable cost.