How to stop embellishment

[Fig]

Have "make up call" for missed penalties increased in the last few seasons?

I have this weird feeling that embellishment has directly increased as refs started doing make up calls for prior infractions they missed. I mean, if you called everything remotely close to borderline, the flow of the game would be affected. Calling nothing and players get annoyed trying to really prove there's reasons to make a call.

Crazy idea, but I almost wonder if embellishments shouldn't actually be a penalty at all. If there is an embellishment, it negates the opposition teams' next penalty. In a coincidental minors situation, there is no penalty at all if an embellishment was determined and preferably, no stoppage at all with the linesman/ref declaring an embellishment negation via hand signal or something.

That revised approach and risk (like the DOG penalty on a bad coach review) might help to prevent the actions of players taking the risk of an embellishment by amping up the risk of trying to embellish. Who will bother trying to embellish a high stick or tripping and roll into a corner if an embellishment would negate it anyways and play doesn't stop (putting your team at an odd man rush disadvantage)?

Minor infractions and fighting may go up as a response, but I think the biggest issue (if it's really a true issue in want of resolution) of super weird or questionable embellishment penalties would go away.

 

[nturn06]

The biggest issue here is that the refs are encouraging the dives but not calling many infractions unless players fall down... The refs should call penalties.

Also, I fine many fans whinning about "diving" in all situations. If a player skates fast gets a stick into his skates and falls down, that's not a dive, but certain fans are gonna whine for days.

I also often said that, exactly how they have automatic review of goals in the last 5 minutes, the control room should automatically call any embelishment penalty at the next soppage of play. Just flag it for the refs, and have the refs review it. When the refs are gonna miss many penalties, but will always penalize the dives, this will stop.

 

[HisNoodliness]

The problem is that too many hockey penalties, especially embellishment, require a ton of judgement from the refs. It's always worth remembering that sometimes a guy falls over a little easier than they normally might because the trip came when they were off balance. They will throw their head back and grab their face if hit with a high stick because it's surprising to be hit in the face. Even a stick passing close to your face may make you flinch. This leads to three effects that work together to make embellishment a big problem:

1. Players want to embellish any penalty committed against them in order to minimize the judgement the ref has to use. Don't call attention to an NHL penalty, and you can expect that it won't be called. This is especially true in the playoffs.

2. With embellishment being a particularly difficult judgement call, refs are afraid to make the call and get it wrong. This problem is a huge one because it means that increasing the penalty for embellishment, makes refs even more hesitant to call it.

3. Because refs are constantly making judgement calls, having too many judgements fall against one team in a row feels unfair. Thus you get game management. This has encouraged a maladapted strategy where some teams commit penalties ~constantly, understanding that the ref will never call enough penalties to make up for the advantages they get by trying to hurt their opponents. And as above, if a player thinks a penalty won't be called, they will embellish to call attention to it. The more the refs swallow their whistles and manage the game, the more players need to embellish- especially because the players recognize the "we hurt our opponents" strategy.

The first solution is just to tell the refs to do a better job. But, we have to accept that they might already be doing the best that they can. That and the league doesn't understand how hockey should be reffed.

Then fines don't work, and we can't count on the refs for on-ice enforcement. That gives us very few ways that we can try to address the problem. I think having the league review all penalties after the game and giving out automatic multi-game suspensions for any embellishment could help. This once again feels like the judgement aspect to it may prevent the league from enforcing the penalty though as they're too afraid to suspend a guy that genuinely may not have been embellishing.

So my proposal is to shame them. Before game one of any playoff series, you play both teams' "dive reel" from the season. Afterwords you get the fans to chant the names of the players in the video followed by "you're a diving disgrace. Feel ashamed of what you've done." Do the same thing at the awards ceremonies, all star game and the draft, but for every diver in the league. Arm opposing teams with the videos. If someone has been diving, encourage anyone playing him to play those videos on the jumbotron any time that he draws a penalty. And speaking of awards, have a "Michael Phelps trophy" that you give to the best diver in a given year. This player is shamed before every single game the next season.

I think the league and refs might be more likely to apply a penalty of shame to a player where they're too chicken to impose harsh on ice consequences. And I think most players would really hate being called a disgrace all the time. I also think the next generations watching this happen would learn a "I won't embellish and be a disgrace" mentality.

 

[Stive Morgan]

Get the NHL to partner up with those Instagram/Twitter accounts that call out diving that the players are always getting into DM arguments with lol

 

[The Panther]

I do not understand the controversy over "how to stop embellishment". It seems to me it's very simple:

Refs call single penalties for embellishment (not coincidental minors).

That's it.

 

[Hierso]

Why not just suspend them for a game after 2-3 embellishments.

The shame of getting suspendend for dives should almost be enough to stop doing it.

 

[Fig]

I do not understand the controversy over "how to stop embellishment". It seems to me it's very simple:

Refs call single penalties for embellishment (not coincidental minors).

That's it.

Or maybe amplify it in a way where the war room can green light allowing the ref to request adding a delay of game penalty to the embellishment but only a review of the play (ie: 4 mins vs 2)?

Things like after the whistle can be included as part of that review (because a major part of the delay is after the whistle) such as scrums, how fast the player miraculously recovered, if there was blood on the play (not really as embellished) etc. Maybe the player goes right to the box for the normal embellishment calls, then the war room can within 1 minute review for whether adding the D.O.G. is appropriate?

The current issue is that embellishment at worst is equal to an infraction in the first place and some are kinda questionable based on how fast the game goes, so it's currently worth the risk. To discourage it, it has to potentially be or frequently be worse than the opposition's infraction. Having a video review to try and get it right and determine actions after the whistle as to whether it seemed like a player was trying to sell a call might help to really get it right.

This also assumes that most of us are in agreement that embellishment is worse than the infraction on the player that was embellished in the first place.

 

[cptjeff]

Why not just suspend them for a game after 2-3 embellishments.

The shame of getting suspendend for dives should almost be enough to stop doing it.

Why not suspend players for a game after 2-3 slashes? It's a far more serious offense that can actually injure other players and impact the actual progress of play on the ice.

Trying to make sure the ref notices the actual penalty that has just been committed is not in the top 1000 problems with the game. If you want to harshly penalize players who dive when they're not actually touched, yes, that's cheating and that's awful. It's also pretty rare, except for a few rats. But if you slash a guy and they sell it a bit, STFU. You slashed the guy. Don't do that. Go to the box and feel shame.

My rule would be that if there is an underlying penalty at all, the ref should not be allowed to call embellishment. The embellishment call should only be available for cases where there was no actual underlying penalty.

Call the actual penalties consistently and not just when somebody goes down and players will stop trying to sell calls.

 

[Brookbank]

We had a total joke of an embellishment call on the ice in Edmonton.

That's why they have to be called from video. And not on the ice.

 

[thegazelle]

In the game tonight, Marchment got an embellishment penalty on Hyman's cross-check. While I think sometimes it may be obvious, but other times it seems to be left to the discretion of the referees.

I don't know - personally, I am not sure this should really be a penalty (embellishment that is). It seems to make it much more subjective to interpret, and really, it only seems to be called in co-inciding with an infraction. So I don't see the cancelling out of the original penalty by embellishment.

In sports like baseball, catchers can "frame" a pitch to make it appear in the strike zone in order to get a favourable call from the umpire. In other sports where there are judges, much is left to interpretation and the judges' viewpoint.

Refs in all sports miss calls, and in some cases gets things wrong. Officials are human after all, and will never get it right 100% of the time. So I am leery of having penalty that is based on subjective interpretation.

 

[Brookbank]

Here it is

https://x.com/i/web/status/1795278259237883966

 

[ElLeetch]

fine the medical staff, and give a delay of game penalty.

 

[NotCommitted]

Unless people want to go back to "anything goes" hockey, which takes the skill out of the game, then you need to also crack down on the actual infractions.

Video referee/situation room/what ever reviews every penalty either during game or after games and dishes out double minor or major penalties after the fact (or suspensions if it's reviewed after the game) for embellishment.

To get to the root of the problem, call the game by the book and minimize all the gray areas where it's only a penalty if you fall or get hurt or whatever. Make a clear distinction between what is a hockey play and what is against the rules and call all those infractions no matter how minor they are. For example cross-checking, my pet peeve, it could easily be automatic minor, but now it's practically allowed (especially around the crease) unless you cross-check "too hard" - and how do you determine what is "too-hard"? Usually it seems to be by what happens to the cross-checked player... which means if you are too strong on your skates you practically never get the call.

 

[BlueOil]

The easiest way is to only call the embellishment.
Right now, the worst thing that happens is 4on4.
If they called Embellishment without calling the other infraction, it would help stop it, because now instead of maybe drawing a PP or keeping things even, you could be putting yourself shorthanded.

i agree with this. it's simple, easy to implement, and doesn't create a lot of unnecessary drama while trying to solve the problem. simply call embellishments when someone's trying to draw a call and there wasn't one to be had. fines and suspensions are way over the top for the number of times this problem occurs.

i'll add that if the refs are going to call both a penalty and embellishment on the same sequence, i'd rather they don't call anything at all. there's no point to move it to 4v4, keep it at 5v5 and let them look like doofuses for pleading for a call.

the refs don't have to be good to reverse this trend when it predictably rears it's ugly head

 

[CTHabsfan]

The easiest way is to only call the embellishment.
Right now, the worst thing that happens is 4on4.
If they called Embellishment without calling the other infraction, it would help stop it, because now instead of maybe drawing a PP or keeping things even, you could be putting yourself shorthanded.

It was bad enough that Marchment was called for embellishment last night, it would have been absurd if he went to the box and Hyman did not.

 

[RefalancheStillLose]

It was bad enough that Marchment was called for embellishment last night, it would have been absurd if he went to the box and Hyman did not.

Not disputing that at all.
The wrong call will happen occasionally. after a season or two, it will work itself out.
It's happened more than a few times this year, where there was embellishment called, that clearly wasn't the case, but last nights likely had more to do with the Oilers crying/lobbying.
They didn't want to call a penalty on the Oilers but had no choice so they gave out an embellishment too.
Happened last series as well with one on Hintz.

The spirit of the change, is to stop players like Rantanen from acting like they got shot every time they're touched.

 

[tabness]

real simple two step process

1) dont call the original penalty if it was going to be called

2) pipe Jack Edwards audio when it happens

 

[CTHabsfan]

Not disputing that at all.
The wrong call will happen occasionally. after a season or two, it will work itself out.
It's happened more than a few times this year, where there was embellishment called, that clearly wasn't the case, but last nights likely had more to do with the Oilers crying/lobbying.
They didn't want to call a penalty on the Oilers but had no choice so they gave out an embellishment too.
Happened last series as well with one on Hintz.

The spirit of the change, is to stop players like Rantanen from acting like they got shot every time they're touched.

Problem is the wrong call in this case not only penalizes a player/team that should not receive a penalty, a player/team that should receive a penalty gets away with one.

 

[Shibumi]

Perhaps a scarlet letter on their jerseys?

Just make the diver sit on a diving board for the duration of the penalty.

Nothing like a little public humiliation to fix up that problem.

 

[Sheppy]

Fine them. Review the calls after the game and start issuing fines.