Kraken 2024 Offseason chatter

[kihei]

Gourde, Tanev and Larsson for 11thOA, Krebs and Jokiharju.

Opens up 12.5M for free agent help, while adding a couple of younger players that have potential, and secures a much higher pick than they would get selling them alone at the TDL. If the expert Draft pundits can be trusted, The pick projects to be Helenius, Catton, Yakemchuk or Sennecke. If Francis thinks he could entice a couple of UFAs to come in with the money he saves here, I kinda like the move for both teams.

Buffalo doesn't make that trade in a million years. It would take something much more enticing to nab the 11th pick. Neither Tanev or Gourde have the value that they had at last year's trade deadline.

Incoming emoji?

 

[Irie]

Buffalo doesn't make that trade in a million years. It would take something much more enticing to nab the 11th pick. Neither Tanev or Gourde have the value that they had at last year's trade deadline.

Incoming emoji?

Ha!

Maybe I am jaded, but you should take a look at some of the proposals over on the Buffalo board from Sabres fans. (Many would move Owen Power for 3rd line help!). 13+ years without playoffs makes fans crazy, and at this point, Adams is fighting for his job.

Gourde and Tanev aren't the big catches here. Larsson is the big fish with the most value imo.

Gourde and Larsson definitely will have pretty serious value at the deadline next season. Tanev is a bit of a cap dump now, but with some retention, he could return a solid pick as well next spring. Jokiharjju needs a new contract and the Sabres don't want to pay him what he will likely get in arbitration. He had a solid year with less responsibility, but they already have 30+ million tied up on their blue line. Krebs they would be selling low on. He needs to not be playing on the 4th line, but Buffalo needs more from their top 3 centers than he is providing currently, and with tons of prospects knocking on the door, they can't wait for him to arrive any longer, so he may be the odd man out.

The 11th pick is nice, but it is still a crap shoot, and Buffalo has more high end prospects than they have spots for. They are likely going to lose some good prospects just to contract limits like they did with Hagel a few years back.

That package is an overpay for what Seattle is giving up, but not a huge over pay, and Buffalo would be paying a premium to have all three players around for the year and not just a TDL rental. The hope would be that the players find they like the city and their teammates, and are willing to re-sign without charging the normal "buffalo small market premium charge". Not to mention that that team needs solid vet mentors in the worst way right now.

Worst case scenario, if none of them are willing to extend, then they could still move them at the TDL and get back some of their assets.

I'm a Kraken fan now, but I still am and have been a Buffalo fan for decades as well, and I can say that the idea does intrigue me. Sabres need to make the playoffs. Their fanbase is evaporating permanently, and their young guys need to experience postseason play. 11OA is a luxury for that team right now, it is no where near the important future piece it would be for Seattle.

 

[Irie]

Buffalo doesn't make that trade in a million years. It would take something much more enticing to nab the 11th pick. Neither Tanev or Gourde have the value that they had at last year's trade deadline.

Incoming emoji?

**I will also add that 11th overall is generally viewed as a pretty high pick and high picks have intangible value, but the moment a prospect is selected with that pick, that prospect will not have anywhere near the perceived value of an 11th overall unused pick.

This close to the draft, the pick is a lot less "intangible". We can place a prospect in the slot now.

Yakemchuk+Jokiharju+Krebs

for

Larsson+Gourde+Tanev.

Substitute Yakemchuk for MBN/Sennecke/Helenius.... doesn't really matter. The value still seems a lot closer than it felt when it is listed as 11th OA, and that should be the real value.

 

[Fuhrious]

If you’re determined to play fantasy hockey in the Head Coach thread, that offer is an easy easy pass from me.

1) Krebs’ value at this point is negligible at best, any “top prospect” value he had 3 seasons (!) ago in the Eichel trade is gone after that many unimpressive showings on a team whose problem ISNT “lack of star-quality forwards” to pair him with. If dude isn’t a bust at this point, he’s damn near.

2) Jokiharju doesn’t move the needle when his “comparables” on Hockey Reference are Stephane Quintal and Marc Bergevin. And that’s his stat line playing with Dahlin? Undersized and never broke out after leaving Chicago.

I feel like there’s a reason BUF would be looking to dump 2 very young pending-RFAs like that. RF could get way way better value than that for Larsson and Gourde.

 

[Irie]

If you’re determined to play fantasy hockey in the Head Coach thread, that offer is an easy easy pass from me.

1) Krebs’ value at this point is negligible at best, any “top prospect” value he had 3 seasons (!) ago in the Eichel trade is gone after that many unimpressive showings on a team whose problem ISNT “lack of star-quality forwards” to pair him with. If dude isn’t a bust at this point, he’s damn near.

2) Jokiharju doesn’t move the needle when his “comparables” on Hockey Reference are Stephane Quintal and Marc Bergevin. And that’s his stat line playing with Dahlin? Undersized and never broke out after leaving Chicago.

I feel like there’s a reason BUF would be looking to dump 2 very young pending-RFAs like that. RF could get way way better value than that for Larsson and Gourde.

Yeah, sorry. There was a discussion on trading those guys and I just responded to it. Wrong thread to have this discussion, maybe @The Marquis or @Fistfullofbeer can move the conversation and drop it into the roster thread.

As far as value, Larsson and Gourde may return late 1sts, but Francis is not going to get any single high end piece at the TDL that comes anywhere close to the 11th pick, and moving up in the draft from late 20s to 11 is a pipe dream. Tanev at 3.5M is currently a cap dump.

As a fan of both teams, I like it a lot for Seattle. Seattle needs another high-end draft pick. Jokiharju has been miss-cast for several seasons, but he was Buffalos most consistent D the first half of last season playing a smaller role, (was great playing with more structures D partners, but he still sucks playing with Power who roams all over the ice, and had the same problem with Byram. Why Granato kept going back to that pairing is a mystery to the entire Sabres board. The real problem is that Jokiharju is not physical and is totally redundant with Power and Byram now. His arb number will not be attractive for what he brings to that team. They need a different type of defender to play with Power or Byram.

Krebs is not a bust. He's been asked to play a 4th line pest role and he has embraced it, but he has a much higher ceiling. I think his floor is a 3rd line center with the right linemates, and could easily jump up into a 2nd line top six role eventually. Kid has great vision, just needs to learn patience and not try to force plays that aren't there, but he is still a bit of a project.

 

[GrungeHockey]

Gourde, Tanev and Larsson for 11thOA, Krebs and Jokiharju.

Opens up 12.5M for free agent help, while adding a couple of younger players that have potential, and secures a much higher pick than they would get selling them alone at the TDL. If the expert Draft pundits can be trusted, The pick projects to be Helenius, Catton, Yakemchuk or Sennecke. If Francis thinks he could entice a couple of UFAs to come in with the money he saves here, I kinda like the move for both teams.

I think Buffalo would jump at this but I also agree that NTCs probably make this impossible.

Buffalo doesn't make that trade in a million years. It would take something much more enticing to nab the 11th pick. Neither Tanev or Gourde have the value that they had at last year's trade deadline.

Incoming emoji?

Oh I wouldn't be so sure. This is a make it or break it year for them. I am pretty sure if Adams doesn't get them into the playoffs this year he's out and so he will do some short term thinking to keep his job.

 

[majormajor]

Yeah, sorry. There was a discussion on trading those guys and I just responded to it. Wrong thread to have this discussion, maybe @The Marquis or @Fistfullofbeer can move the conversation and drop it into the roster thread.

As far as value, Larsson and Gourde may return late 1sts, but Francis is not going to get any single high end piece at the TDL that comes anywhere close to the 11th pick, and moving up in the draft from late 20s to 11 is a pipe dream. Tanev at 3.5M is currently a cap dump.

As a fan of both teams, I like it a lot for Seattle. Seattle needs another high-end draft pick. Jokiharju has been miss-cast for several seasons, but he was Buffalos most consistent D the first half of last season playing a smaller role, (was great playing with more structures D partners, but he still sucks playing with Power who roams all over the ice, and had the same problem with Byram. Why Granato kept going back to that pairing is a mystery to the entire Sabres board. The real problem is that Jokiharju is not physical and is totally redundant with Power and Byram now. His arb number will not be attractive for what he brings to that team. They need a different type of defender to play with Power or Byram.

Krebs is not a bust. He's been asked to play a 4th line pest role and he has embraced it, but he has a much higher ceiling. I think his floor is a 3rd line center with the right linemates, and could easily jump up into a 2nd line top six role eventually. Kid has great vision, just needs to learn patience and not try to force plays that aren't there, but he is still a bit of a project.

I agree with you that the 11th OA pick is worth a lot and not a bad return at all here. I'm not calling Joker and Krebs busts but they're not much/any better than players we can get for free. Regardless, with the 11th OA it's still a nice return.

The main issue is that Seattle isn't selling off yet. I think at the deadline we will be, and we'll get great returns at that point. And unfortunately that timeline doesn't work for Buffalo which is trying to make regular season upgrades.