# Winter Transfer Rumors and Discussion Part II



## bluesfan94

Continue.


----------



## yoplait

Juve seem close to getting this youngster. Not that I think its that newsworthy. However, I just wanted a reason to post this. Defender bit so bad he face planted, you don't see that too often.


----------



## Savant

Liverpool round up:

Strongest link is Pulisic

Middle links are Promes & Brandt

Weakest are JesÃ©, Azmoun, Forsberg

Outgoing: Ilori (to Reading), Sakho (numerous suitors; LFC want 20m)


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Walker and Rose linked to Man United. Rose linked to Man City. 

Spurs would be stupid to sell either to another Premier League team.

Spurs is finally putting together a perennial top 4 contender. They have the best defense in the Premier League, and a lot of that is because they have the best RB and LB in the Premier League. Why would they get rid of two of their best players? They need to improve their team, not make it worse. They need more attacking players as good as Alli and Kane.


----------



## YNWA14

http://www.espnfc.com/story/3035631...degaard-set-for-loan-to-dutch-club-heerenveen

Coooooool. Gonna have to get that kit.


----------



## cgf

Why would Liverpool even waste their time on Brandt? He's obviously going to Bayern whenever he leave 'kusen.


----------



## YNWA14

Would take Promes over Brandt and Pulisic anyway not even sure why he's not already bought if those are the three they have real interest in. Promes is better, young, and can still improve. Pulisic and Brandt will never be better than him.


----------



## bluesfan94

Brandt already is better than him from what I've seen.


----------



## YNWA14

What have you seen?


----------



## Edo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Walker and Rose linked to Man United. Rose linked to Man City.
> 
> Spurs would be stupid to sell either to another Premier League team.
> 
> *Spurs is finally putting together a perennial top 4 contender.* They have the best defense in the Premier League, and a lot of that is because they have the best RB and LB in the Premier League. Why would they get rid of two of their best players? They need to improve their team, not make it worse. They need more attacking players as good as Alli and Kane.




One top 4 finish in the last 5 years does not equal perennial. As an example, Arsenal, are a perennial top 4 contender.


----------



## cgf

Are we talking about the Promes who plays for Spartak? Cause if so, lol. He's got more pace than Brandt, but that's the only place where he isn't clearly outshined by the money grubber.


----------



## Savant

cgf said:


> Why would Liverpool even waste their time on Brandt? He's obviously going to Bayern whenever he leave 'kusen.




Just reporting the names the beat writers have been mentioning most frequently. 

Honestly the way this window is developing it seems like it will be Pulisic or nothing. Probably nothing though.


----------



## bluesfan94

Curtinho said:


> What have you seen?




Mostly national team games (including youth for Brandt) for both but some Leverkusen games too.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> why would liverpool even waste their time on brandt? He's obviously going to bayern whenever he leave 'kusen.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Edo said:


> One top 4 finish in the last 5 years does not equal perennial. As an example, Arsenal, are a perennial top 4 contender.




They were the best team in the league last year. This year, they look likely to be in the top 4 in a very good year for the league. I think they are improving.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I'd like to see an Evilo and Curtinho discussion on Dembele and Promes. 

They are both sure that no one could be better.


----------



## Deficient Mode

One thing we can say with certainty is that Brandt will never be better than a 25 year old who has never played in a top league.



Pavel Buchnevich said:


>





Means nothing



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> They were the best team in the league last year. .




No they weren't



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'd like to see an Evilo and Curtinho discussion on Dembele and Promes.
> 
> They are both sure that no one could be better.




I'd like to see how the average poster here ranks Dembele vs. Promes. Willing to bet there's a massive gap.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'd like to see an Evilo and Curtinho discussion on Dembele and Promes.
> 
> They are both sure that no one could be better.




All that would be missing would be a certain poster signing the praises of Pulisic


----------



## bluesfan94

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> They were the best team in the league last year. This year, they look likely to be in the top 4 in a very good year for the league. I think they are improving.




They were clearly not the best team in the league, nor even the second best.


----------



## Evilo

Is someone here doubting again that DembÃ©lÃ© is one of the next big thing in football? 
HELLO, he was player of the month after 2 months of L1 football at age 18 and then he was player of the month after 4 months in the Bundesliga at age 19 in a new league, new team, new language, new football. HELLO?

In recent memory, nobody was this good this young except Messi.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> No they weren't





bluesfan94 said:


> They were clearly not the best team in the league, nor even the second best.





I thought they played better over the course of the season than any other team, but at the end, they didn't have the requisite experience to win the league. Leiciester didn't have many players who've won big leagues, but Spurs had a very young side that might've been too inexperienced. 

Which side was better? Leicester? I have a hard time considering a team that plays that style to be the best team in the league. There's being good defensively, good tactically, winning low scoring games, and then there's being out possessed by average teams, having very little depth in even just your lineup, playing bad football. 



Deficient Mode said:


> I'd like to see how the average poster here ranks Dembele vs. Promes. Willing to bet there's a massive gap.




Start a poll, if you want. Promes is five years older. Not sure its such a good comparison, although I think Dembele is probably a better player.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> All that would be missing would be a certain poster signing the praises of Pulisic




I don't know if you understood the point of my joke or not, I can't figure it out, but my point was nothing about the actual players, I was more making a joke about the tone of those two posters in how sure they are that those players are better than others, so it'd be funny if they argued over that. There wouldn't be any discussion, it would just be declarative statements. Of course, I'm joking, and just generalizing. 

I have my own opinions, but I'm not going to say I'm definitely right, and others are wrong. An opinion is only an opinion.


----------



## bluesfan94

No one has said anything about dembele that resembles doubt yet here comes evilo to defend him. 

That being said, i might maybe potentially rather have promes for this season but probably not.


----------



## Evilo

I was kidding


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Walker and Rose linked to Man United. Rose linked to Man City.




Over my dead body.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> They were the best team in the league last year. This year, they look likely to be in the top 4 in a very good year for the league. I think they are improving.




Actually Leicester was the best team in the league last year. And Arsenal was the 2nd best and Spuds was the 3rd best. But I mean 3rd is close enough to first right?


----------



## Vipers31

Deficient Mode said:


> One thing we can say with certainty is that Brandt will never be better than a 25 year old who has never played in a top league.



Well said.


----------



## Corto

The Abusement Park said:


> Actually Leicester was the best team in the league last year. And Arsenal was the 2nd best and Spuds was the 3rd best. But I mean 3rd is close enough to first right?




Leicester were champions, sure. They did great.

But if you were actually watching the games, I'd say Spurs were playing better football overall, as was Arsenal.

Leicester was insanely lucky last year, both with injuries and some ridiculous refereeing decisions and Vardy's ability to flop.

No side with a 70% possession or more in the glory days of ManU or Arsenal or Chelsea had as many penalties as Leicester did last year.
It was borderline ridiculous at what kind of decisions they were getting their way, especially in the 2nd half of the season when the Cinderella story was heating up.


----------



## Havre

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Walker and Rose linked to Man United. Rose linked to Man City.
> 
> Spurs would be stupid to sell either to another Premier League team.
> 
> Spurs is finally putting together a perennial top 4 contender. They have the best defense in the Premier League, and a lot of that is because they have the best RB and LB in the Premier League. Why would they get rid of two of their best players? They need to improve their team, not make it worse. They need more attacking players as good as Alli and Kane.




They won't.

60m + Shaw + Valencia might get Utd somewhere 

This has nothing to do with reality.


----------



## Prntscrn

Right now pace is something Liverpool could really need though


----------



## Bon Esprit

According to German media Badstuber from Bayern came to an agreement with Schalke 04 (not Manchester City) for the reminder of this season. So now it depends on Bayern to seal the deal (loan).


----------



## Savant

Glory said:


> Right now pace is something Liverpool could really need though




Yeah without Mane their attack is relatively slow compared to others. That's why they need a similar winger in moreso than any other reason; just for their shape.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> I was kidding




It was 1 AM, I wasn't tuned to sarcasm. My bad


----------



## Just Win

Bon Esprit said:


> According to German media Badstuber from Bayern came to an agreement with Schalke 04 (not Manchester City) for the reminder of this season. So now it depends on Bayern to seal the deal (loan).




Badstuber also needs to agree to a contract extension first as he is in his last year of contract. And apparently he is asking for 4.5 mil per year which is quite a lot for a player who hasn't been healthy since 11/12.


----------



## YNWA14

Dembele is a much better player than Brandt or Pulisic though I don't know why that would come up vs. Promes. I don't think Promes is world class; I just don't have as high an opinion on Brandt or Pulisic as some do. Dembele definitely should become better than Promes, if he isn't already.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Just Win said:


> Badstuber also needs to agree to a contract extension first as he is in his last year of contract. And apparently he is asking for 4.5 mil per year which is quite a lot for a player who hasn't been healthy since 11/12.




Correct. Would you re-sign a player with his injury record? I wouldn't. But apparently Bayern are still interested in his services.
Whatever, I wish Badstuber all the best and that he stays healthy. This man is a true fighter.


----------



## Vipers31

Just Win said:


> Badstuber also needs to agree to a contract extension first as he is in his last year of contract. And apparently he is asking for 4.5 mil per year which is quite a lot for a player who hasn't been healthy since 11/12.




I also wondered if that is still the rule or whether they changed it. From a legal POV, employee assignment, it makes no sense for that requirement to exist (at least any more). 

Either way, Bayern has officially announced he's leaving for Schalke on loan, without any report on an extension.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Moussa Dembele (the Tottenham one) apparently has an offer from China. Love him, but he's getting up there in age and we all know how much China likes to pay. Would consider it in the summer. Not now.


----------



## cgf

Curtinho said:


> Dembele is a much better player than Brandt or Pulisic though I don't know why that would come up vs. Promes. I don't think Promes is world class; I just don't have as high an opinion on Brandt or Pulisic as some do. Dembele definitely should become better than Promes, if he isn't already.




You haven't watched enough Spartak or Leverkusen if you think Promes matches Brandt in any category but pace.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Not sure who this Promes guy is but Brandt is legit. Fantastic player. 

Anyway,

- Hearing Spurs want Druissi but River want 10 million plus him to be loaned back to River.

- Also reading Spurs want Gaitain on loan


----------



## The Abusement Park

Corto said:


> Leicester were champions, sure. They did great.
> 
> But if you were actually watching the games, I'd say Spurs were playing better football overall, as was Arsenal.
> 
> Leicester was insanely lucky last year, both with injuries and some ridiculous refereeing decisions and Vardy's ability to flop.
> 
> No side with a 70% possession or more in the glory days of ManU or Arsenal or Chelsea had as many penalties as Leicester did last year.
> It was borderline ridiculous at what kind of decisions they were getting their way, especially in the 2nd half of the season when the Cinderella story was heating up.




Playing "pretty" doesn't mean you play better soccer, whatever style gets you wins, is the better football. Arsenal play the best/prettiest football in the league typically and they haven't won a title in forever. Yes Leicester's season was a fluke and an anomaly, but over 38 games they played the best and most effective football, which Tottenham did not do. The table at the end of the year shows which team was best, worst, 11th best and Leicester was the best and Tottenham was the third best. It's pretty simple.


----------



## Savant

James Pearce has Liverpool in on Julian Brandt. 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...s/liverpool-eye-german-winger-julian-12433455

Probably one for the summer but they are going to try. Pulisic and Brandt seem like the priorities over a guy like Promes.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Not sure who this Promes guy is but Brandt is legit. Fantastic player.
> 
> Anyway,
> 
> - Hearing Spurs want Druissi but River want 10 million plus him to be loaned back to River.
> 
> - Also reading Spurs want Gaitain on loan




Promes is a good, player, but I think he tops out as a good to really good player. Brandt for sure has higher ceiling than promes from what I've seen of them though.


----------



## YNWA14

cgf said:


> You haven't watched enough Spartak or Leverkusen if you think Promes matches Brandt in any category but pace.




I would say the same I guess? I've watched enough of both to see that Promes has a better shot, is a better dribbler, is faster and stronger on the ball for the things that are most glaring. He's also a bit better in a bunch of other things but meh. IMO, mind.


----------



## Deebo




----------



## YNWA14

That's a nice pick-up for Everton, IMO.


----------



## Theon

Shame it didn't work out, I quite rated him. But it looks like we got a got back a decent fee for once. 

With all the Europa/FA cup games coming up, it opens up more opportunities for Fosu Mensah.


----------



## hatterson

Yea, I'm going to assume Schneiderlin will go to Everton and play well. I think he's got quality, but for some reason it just didn't work at United.


----------



## Jeffrey

I like Klopp but he is really trimming the squad and for the last push and with Mane missing and little cover its a recipe for disaster. 
Imagine selling Lucas and Sakho in the same transfer period with Matip already injured its becoming worrisome even with Gomez.
As long as he gets the right player for him im good.


----------



## Savant

Jeffrey said:


> I like Klopp but he is really trimming the squad and for the last push and with Mane missing and little cover its a recipe for disaster.
> Imagine selling Lucas and Sakho in the same transfer period with Matip already injured its becoming worrisome even with Gomez.
> As long as he gets the right player for him im good.




Gomez is taking Lucas spot. Sakho isn't getting games anyway. I do think he underestimated how many players he needed this term though, but I didn't think that he anticipated needed wingers this bad. But I also don't think he settled on a 433 until late in the preseason either when most of the work was already done.


----------



## Blender

hatterson said:


> Yea, I'm going to assume Schneiderlin will go to Everton and play well. I think he's got quality, but for some reason it just didn't work at United.




He was good in Southampton under Koeman, and now he's going to Everton to play for him. I expect him to bounce back for sure.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Savant said:


> Gomez is taking Lucas spot. Sakho isn't getting games anyway. I do think he underestimated how many players he needed this term though, but I didn't think that he anticipated needed wingers this bad. But I also don't think he settled on a 433 until late in the preseason either when most of the work was already done.




Coutinho is back and I think he can use Lallana on the wing. Firmino and Origi to some extent can be used on the wing if needed. I think they need a CB more.


----------



## Savant

Luiginho said:


> Coutinho is back and I think he can use Lallana on the wing. Firmino and Origi to some extent can be used on the wing if needed. I think they need a CB more.




Gomez is their solution at CB; rightfully or wrongfully. 

Those aren't good solutions on the wings. It slows them down too much comparatively to when Mane is in. Not too mention none of those players are nearly as effective at that position.


----------



## Epictetus

I'll wait to see what they do or not do during this period, but recognizing and admitting you need some more depth at wing, and then not addressing it is completely unacceptable. Finishing in a Champions League spot this year is an absolute must. 

Don't care about Lucas, other then the fact that if they are moving on from him, it should be an outright sell rather than loan to an Italian club like Inter, which accomplishes nothing. Pretty confident Kevin Stewart can replace him. 

I'd much rather play Sahko than buy a CB. If the relationship cannot be mended, then sell him in the summer. You'd still probably be more likely to get your asking price (or closer to it) under that situation of him at least playing than the one now. In other words, you're not getting your asking price with him in his current form of not playing.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Yohan Mollo to Zenit


----------



## Savant

Epictetus said:


> I'll wait to see what they do or not do during this period, but recognizing and admitting you need some more depth at wing, and then not addressing it is completely unacceptable. Finishing in a Champions League spot this year is an absolute must.
> 
> Don't care about Lucas, other then the fact that if they are moving on from him, it should be an outright sell rather than loan to an Italian club like Inter, which accomplishes nothing. Pretty confident Kevin Stewart can replace him.
> 
> I'd much rather play Sahko than buy a CB. If the relationship cannot be mended, then sell him in the summer. You'd still probably be more likely to get your asking price (or closer to it) under that situation of him at least playing than the one now. In other words, you're not getting your asking price with him in his current form of not playing.




The availability of the wing players that LFC wants this window is highly questionable and they don't seem like they want a band-aid. If they can get someone they planned for in the summer I think they pull the trigger. 

As for Sakho the bridge is clearly burnt. The 4 CBs they will go with are Matip, Lovren, Klavan Gomez. Klopp already said he won't make a signing to further push Gomez down the depth chart either.


----------



## Jussi

I read about it over the weekend already but apparently Memphis Depay is off the market as Mourinho says he wants to fight for a place.


----------



## SJSharks72

Any update on Lindelof to United?


----------



## oilers92

SJSharks39 said:


> Any update on Lindelof to United?




dont know if true but read that benfica are the ones making all the noise on the transfer as he has a 30mil buy out clause that kicks in in the summer and are trying to offload him for more before it takes affect.


----------



## Havre

Savant said:


> The availability of the wing players that LFC wants this window is highly questionable and they don't seem like they want a band-aid. If they can get someone they planned for in the summer I think they pull the trigger.
> 
> As for Sakho the bridge is clearly burnt. The 4 CBs they will go with are Matip, Lovren, Klavan Gomez. Klopp already said he won't make a signing to further push Gomez down the depth chart either.




Agree.

I can't see Liverpool doing much just because Mane leaves for AFCON. They knew this before the season started so reacting to it now doesn't make any sense. Of course they could still end up getting someone, but it would have to make sense long term. Not sure if that player is available in January.

Most players don't really live up to expectations anyway. Borini, Markovic etc. - so you don't really want the handicap of having to only choose from players that are for whatever reason available in January when it is that hard in the first place to find the right players.

There are 6 clubs that "must" qualify for the CL. 2 of them will fail. I certainly don't see Liverpool "musting" this more than any of the others. And they definitely don't have the financial muscles to secure such a spot by just spending more than the others. I think they more or less just got to ride what they got - which could still work.


----------



## YNWA14

Liverpool doesn't really need to buy anyone. Gomez is already very good and will only improve. Lots of wide options too from youth. It would be nice to have a speedy winger in the Mane mould but it'll be fine I think.


----------



## Savant

Curtinho said:


> Liverpool doesn't really need to buy anyone. Gomez is already very good and will only improve. Lots of wide options too from youth. It would be nice to have a speedy winger in the Mane mould but it'll be fine I think.




If the wide options from you youth team can't handle Plymouth they probably can't help LFC title charge.


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> If the wide options from you youth team can't handle Plymouth they probably can't help LFC title charge.




Meh...Plymouth did absolutely nothing, that match was completely one sided and Liverpool could have easily had a few goals on a different night. Hardly an example of them not handling things.


----------



## Power Man

So I've read Belfodil (Standard Liege) is going to Everton


----------



## Chimaera

I don't think they have a giant issue. With Ojo coming back from a long term injury, it's going to take some time, but he should add some depth when they need a body for the spring period. 

While they're a bit hectic matches wise because of the Winter period, they also don't have the Europe matches all of their opponents sans Chelsea have. 

I think they could stand to add a player, but they're not going to go out and pay 25 million for a player who might not be an upgrade on anything. Why spend that money if you think you can get someone better come summer. Or if he's going to sit the bench most days when Mane returns. 

I also think something to consider is the fact that he can easily switch systems if you're concerned with the amount of wingers. Play 4-4-2 with a diamond, getting both strikers in. 

I also think a place that's being somewhat neglected is fullback. I don't think Moreno can hold the position for any time of a potential Milner absence. It's also basically Clyne and that's it. Alexander-Arnold's a good one for the future, but there's no way I want to see him going against men regularly at pace and size.


----------



## Jeffrey

I don't mind Liverpool not doing anything during the winter transfer period but they better do something in the summer to finally get the player they want... (Dahoud, Pulisic or Brandt)... they have the money no doubt but they better be ready to overpay for them if they really want them. If they wait that long and they don't get their primary targets then it's a huge fail.


----------



## phisherman

Jeffrey said:


> I don't mind Liverpool not doing anything during the winter transfer period but they better do something in the summer to finally get the player they want... (Dahoud, Pulisic or Brandt)... they have the money no doubt but they better be ready to overpay for them if they really want them. If they wait that long and they don't get their primary targets then it's a huge fail.




Would they even come over if Liverpool doesn't make it in the top 4?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Brandt and Pulisic are going to be huge long shots in the summer too... probably Dahoud as well.


----------



## Evilo

I could see Brandt going for zillion of money next summer, but with lots of competition, big fishes too.
Bayern will probably sign him in the end anyway.


----------



## Jeffrey

phisherman said:


> Would they even come over if Liverpool doesn't make it in the top 4?



Je ne sais pas...


----------



## bluesfan94

Deficient Mode said:


> Brandt and Pulisic are going to be huge long shots in the summer too... probably Dahoud as well.




Dahoud might go depending on how Gladbach does in the RÃ¼ckrunde


----------



## Jeffrey

Evilo said:


> I could see Brandt going for zillion of money next summer, but with lots of competition, big fishes too.
> Bayern will probably sign him in the end anyway.




I agree and that's my point.. If they really want him they better be ready to severely overpay for him which seem to be normal now for top young player. I mean if Liverpool are ready to pay upward â‚¬70M for him then fine but don't wait to "have him cheaper" and then lose him to another big player.


----------



## Evilo

Even at 70M he'd have to choose Liverpool over a top team.


----------



## Jeffrey

Evilo said:


> Even at 70M he'd have to choose Liverpool over a top team.



If Liverpool get CL with Klopp at the helm and they pay him handsomely I like liverpool chances to get him.


----------



## Chimaera

Jeffrey said:


> If Liverpool get CL with Klopp at the helm and they pay him handsomely I like liverpool chances to get him.




They won't pay 70 million pounds for him. 



They have the finances with the CL (if that's what they get) to go out and get a big piece or two (they've turned a profit in the market the past couple of windows) if they want. But yes, they will have to get a player to come there as opposed to another big club. 


That said, I think Klopp, an attacking Liverpool willing to spend, with an energized Anfield is a tempting offer, especially for a quality German. Can that beat Barca or Real? No. It probably can't. But they're certainly positioning themselves to be one of the top 4 or 5 places players might entertain going.


----------



## Evilo

Tpo 4 or 5 I don't know. City is really not attractive to footballers and....their wives.
London, Paris, Turin, Barcelona, Madrid, Roma, Munich, Monaco, etc... have the upper hand in that regard.
Then you have to factor in the rest of the factors as you said. 
But the city IS an important factor, especially these days.


----------



## yoplait

Power Man said:


> So I've read Belfodil (Standard Liege) is going to Everton




Haven't seen him since he left Italy. But he was god awful towards the end of his stint in Italy after showing enough promise for Inter to pay 10m for half ownership of him. 1 goal in his last 48 Serie A games. But I can see he got some goals under his belt once he left. Hopefully he can continue.

In other Inter news, they've since Gagliardini at â‚¬22m (1.5yr loan + obligation to buy)


----------



## Chimaera

Evilo said:


> Tpo 4 or 5 I don't know. City is really not attractive to footballers and....their wives.
> London, Paris, Turin, Barcelona, Madrid, Roma, Munich, Monaco, etc... have the upper hand in that regard.
> Then you have to factor in the rest of the factors as you said.
> But the city IS an important factor, especially these days.




The City is important, but the other factors balance it out some. I would also say that having a contingent of Brazilians, that could at least balance some concerns if that's an issue. It's certainly more Pittsburgh than Los Angeles or New York for an American comparison, but it isn't the complete dump that it has been in the past. There's a few areas that are improving and the rebuild of the Main Stand offered some facilities to be refurbished. Sure, Anfield was historic, but the innards of the stadium were ancient in a bad way. 

For what it's worth, if you go to London, you might be on a club that's the 3rd or 4th most important in your town. So it's not always the same. I would also say living in Madrid or Barcelona is much different then London or Paris for a South American player, so it could depend on where the player is from. 

I said arguably top 4-5, because they do have a lot of the other elements to offer. The question though might come down to what wages they're willing to pay.


----------



## Jeffrey

Some people prefer smaller & quiet cities over big metropole. Its all case by case... but I also think the manager has an even bigger impact in the decision over the city.

Personally I would like to live in Paris but with Emery as the manager I would definately say no...
On the opposite I hate Real Madrid with a passion but I wouldn't mind being coached by Zidane.


----------



## Live in the Now

Doesn't matter if players would go to Liverpool because they don't spend money on anyone.


----------



## cgf

Jeffrey said:


> If Liverpool get CL with Klopp at the helm and they pay him handsomely I like liverpool chances to get him.




You're confident in LFC being able to pull Brandt under those conditions? Why? He'all have much more exciting clubs offering him much higher wage packets.


----------



## Jeffrey

cgf said:


> You're confident in LFC being able to pull Brandt under those conditions? Why? He'all have much more exciting clubs offering him much higher wage packets.



Yes. Bayern is the top german club and the obvious favourite but if Brandt want to test himself in the EPL, I like Liverpool chances with Klopp.

Klopp was able to convince Mane to join Liverpool over Manchester United it's not impossible he is able to convince Brandt to join. I never said Liverpool were the favourites just that they do have a legit shot.


----------



## Chimaera

Live in the Now said:


> Doesn't matter if players would go to Liverpool because they don't spend money on anyone.




I don't quite know if you're being completely sarcastic, but I do agree that they're not in the market to break the bank for players. Klopp doesn't do it, FSG wants value, their sporting director (or whatever silly title they're giving him) is known to maximize value, and that's how it's been the last few windows. 

That said, they've spent pretty hefty sums on Mane, given solid wages to Matip and have at least indicated they're willing to spend if the right players are available. 

If they make the CL, they're going to be forced to spend. Their squad isn't deep enough and the young kids aren't ready. The only way that doesn't occur is if they either get a silly deal for a player from China (Sturridge?) or Coutinho and the Barca bid really has more than a bit of smoke (I think it's too soon with his latest injury) to which point they would have the dollars to balance the books and some forced buying.


----------



## Live in the Now

Not being sarcastic at all, they are trying to make top four with a squad that isn't big enough and they didn't spend anything in the summer. That's the definition of being cheap.


----------



## Power Man

yoplait said:


> Haven't seen him since he left Italy. But he was god awful towards the end of his stint in Italy after showing enough promise for Inter to pay 10m for half ownership of him. 1 goal in his last 48 Serie A games. But I can see he got some goals under his belt once he left. Hopefully he can continue.
> 
> In other Inter news, they've since Gagliardini at â‚¬22m (1.5yr loan + obligation to buy)



Yeah he had some person problems during his time in Inter

He has been great this season with Standard Liege, but the move would be too early imo

I would like to see him complete the season in Belgium before moving to England


----------



## Chimaera

Live in the Now said:


> Not being sarcastic at all, they are trying to make top four with a squad that isn't big enough and they didn't spend anything in the summer. That's the definition of being cheap.




I realize Leicester city is a bit of an outlier but they do have a bigger squad than they did


----------



## Deficient Mode

bluesfan94 said:


> Dahoud might go depending on how Gladbach does in the RÃ¼ckrunde




I think there's a very good chance Dahoud leaves this summer, but again, there will be a lot of other clubs interested, some of which might be more attractive than Liverpool.



Jeffrey said:


> Yes. Bayern is the top german club and the obvious favourite but if Brandt want to test himself in the EPL, I like Liverpool chances with Klopp.
> 
> Klopp was able to convince Mane to join Liverpool over Manchester United it's not impossible he is able to convince Brandt to join. *I never said Liverpool were the favourites* just that they do have a legit shot.




Well you said "you like Liverpool's chances to get him" if they were willing to dish out the money so you can see where the confusion stems from.

Liverpool is hardly a step up competitively from Leverkusen - a team that you'd expect to make it out of the group stages if they qualify for the CL, but still an outsider to win a domestic or European title, albeit with a better coach than Leverkusen. They have more money, but so do the giant clubs. Brandt will be 21 this summer - an age at which players of his ability typically think of moving to a giant club where they can win titles for years to come. I'd be really surprised if he goes anywhere but Bayern. This summer or the one after.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Telegraph reporting that Swansea and Norwich have agreed on a Â£5m fee for Martin Olsson.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Toprak to Dortmund (summer) almost done.

Juve are interested in Kolasinac (Schalke 04)

SÃ¼le (20m) and Rudy (no fee) to Bayern (summer) almost done.


----------



## Corto

Slaven Bilic just said that Payet asked for a transfer and is out of contention for the Palace game on Saturday.

No idea who's interested, there've been rumors about Marseille, ManU, Chelsea, etc.
Who knows at this point...


----------



## Savi

Power Man said:


> Yeah he had some person problems during his time in Inter
> 
> He has been great this season with Standard Liege, but the move would be too early imo
> 
> I would like to see him complete the season in Belgium before moving to England




I don't know, Standard are a mess this season and they are in real danger of missing out on the Championship playoffs. If they do, Belfodil's season would basically be over in March.

But anyway, it they do sell him, that's a fantastic deal for them. Signed him on a free in September, sell him for â‚¬12m just 4 months later


----------



## DanishPastry

Payet and West Ham in Mexican standoff.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38595765


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Corto said:


> Slaven Bilic just said that Payet asked for a transfer and is out of contention for the Palace game on Saturday.
> 
> No idea who's interested, there've been rumors about Marseille, ManU, Chelsea, etc.
> Who knows at this point...




Holding the club hostage mid-season like that is such a garbage move. You know they would have sold him in the summer, anyway. 

He's played all season like he didn't want to be here, so whatever.


----------



## DanishPastry

Jersey Fresh said:


> Holding the club hostage mid-season like that is such a garbage move. You know they would have sold him in the summer, anyway.
> 
> He's played all season like he didn't want to be here, so whatever.




He'll be 34 by the time his contract expires. Flash in a pan type of career if he sits out until then.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

DanishPastry said:


> He'll be 34 by the time his contract expires. Flash in a pan type of career if he sits out until then.




They'll sell him the summer, they were always going to. Which makes his decision to sit out now pretty bizarre, frankly. He gains nothing but bad publicity.


----------



## Power Man

Savi said:


> I don't know, Standard are a mess this season and they are in real danger of missing out on the Championship playoffs. If they do, Belfodil's season would basically be over in March.
> 
> But anyway, it they do sell him, that's a fantastic deal for them. Signed him on a free in September, sell him for â‚¬12m just 4 months later




Yup.


----------



## Corto

Jersey Fresh said:


> Holding the club hostage mid-season like that is such a garbage move. You know they would have sold him in the summer, anyway.
> 
> He's played all season like he didn't want to be here, so whatever.




I agree.
He's played like hot garbage really, and hot garbage that doesn't wanna be there - and at the same time, you're not allowed to take him off because he's Payet.

I actually think selling him, putting Antonio and Feghouli/Ayew on the wings with Lanzini in the middle (combined with a new striker) might do WHU a world of good.


----------



## Luigi Habs

There are rumors he might be back with Marseille. But that's Payet. He left Marseille because a salary decrease clause was triggered due to missing out on champions league.


----------



## Corto

I mean, I get the guy feels he's good enough to play for a better team...

But surely, signing a 5-year contract for ridiculous money should money something for a professional?

Either way, sure, they should sell him and move on... 
But footballers signing contract and then playing until they feel like it is a tad ridiculous.


----------



## Burner Account

Live in the Now said:


> Doesn't matter if players would go to Liverpool because they don't spend money on anyone.




Moneyball

Although IIRC they eventually publicly abandoned the moneyball approach with the Red Sox


----------



## Savant

kyle evs48 said:


> Moneyball
> 
> Although IIRC they eventually publicly abandoned the moneyball approach with the Red Sox




LFC isn't moneyball. Klopp just would rather sign a younger player who hasn't hit his apex yet.


----------



## Halladay

kyle evs48 said:


> Moneyball
> 
> Although IIRC they eventually publicly abandoned the moneyball approach with the Red Sox




The Red Sox used Billy Beane's measure of statistics to evaluate players but that is it. They were/are one of the highest spenders in the league. Liverpool is being cheap. They havent replaced Allen as a 4th/5th midfielder as Lucas is past it. Had they also have better cover at fullback, I think Milner could play on the wing.


----------



## Burner Account

Savant said:


> LFC isn't moneyball. Klopp just would rather sign a younger player who hasn't hit his apex yet.






BlameUtley said:


> The Red Sox used Billy Beane's measure of statistics to evaluate players but that is it. They were/are one of the highest spenders in the league. Liverpool is being cheap. They havent replaced Allen as a 4th/5th midfielder as Lucas is past it. Had they also have better cover at fullback, I think Milner could play on the wing.




I'm not saying Liverpool is using moneyball. I don't think they've publicly declared any kind of analytics initiative.

I'm saying the guys signing the checks are the guys that used moneyball and that is their reputation.


----------



## Jeffrey

LFC are being really cheap since Klopp appointment but who is to blame? I don't know... Klopp does not seem to mind... so I guess he decides who's in or out.


----------



## Chimaera

They're also forced to use that strategy. 

They can't afford to go out and pay ridiculous wages to get guys who are 29-31 to come and play here and try and get them where they want to be. There's some onus to finding players who can improve both their value and their abilities at the club, so they can get where they want to go. They're not in a place where they can go spend what Chelsea or City will spend on the next Neymar or whomever from Brazil or a new German phenom who is tearing up the Bundesliga. 

For every Milner, there's something to be said about the fact that in 2 or 3 years, when FSG/Klopp actually see this plan coming to fruition and being in a place to where they're going to be in the CL and be competing on all levels, he's going to be on the back slope of his career at 33-34.

Getting a player who's 22-23, is a calculated buy for where they are right now. The idea is they come in, improve their abilities and still be able to produce for a club on the upswing. The problem is players who are there in that range tend to be much more sought after and difficult to acquire. So as such, they've gone in the easier route, and bought players who were younger. 

Klopp also, for better or worse, is driven to find bargains in the market. He likes taking a player, finding what they can do, and improving their game. Hungry players are what he wants. Right or wrong, I don't know if he feels that about players who are already at the top.


----------



## Live in the Now

Bilic announced that Dimitri Payet no longer wants to play for West Ham.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Mattia Caldara officially signs with Juve

15M euros. Loaned back to Atalanta.


----------



## hatterson

Live in the Now said:


> Bilic announced that Dimitri Payet no longer wants to play for West Ham.




Yea, Payet says he no longer wants to play for the club, but the club says they're not selling.

Sounds like he's basically sitting on the sidelines until either the club wants money or he decides he wants to play again.


----------



## East Coast Bias

I would ship him to China.

Cash in on him.

At this stage though, there isn't much I wouldn't sell to China for a 500% markup if I was running a club.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

East Coast Bias said:


> I would ship him to China.
> 
> Cash in on him.
> 
> At this stage though, there isn't much I wouldn't sell to China for a 500% markup if I was running a club.




You'd have to convince the player to go... It won't be easy.


----------



## Burner Account

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> You'd have to convince the player to go... It won't be easy.




I don't think it's that difficult. Yes, new language and culture. But these are modern cities we're talking about, some of them world financial centers. I.e. not bad places to be millionaires.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> You'd have to convince the player to go... It won't be easy.




Sure but look at the salaries some of these guys are getting.

They're paying Hulk like he's peak Neymar.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

No one mentioned it here, but Jovetic went on loan to Sevilla two days ago. I really hope he can get his career back on track after injuries have destroyed him, he just now scored on his debut.


----------



## dilbert719

hatterson said:


> Yea, Payet says he no longer wants to play for the club, but the club says they're not selling.
> 
> Sounds like he's basically sitting on the sidelines until either the club wants money or he decides he wants to play again.




My understanding is he wants to go back to France, and he's trying to force us to send him there. I'm comfortable with the team taking a hard line on this, at least until they get an offer they like (and I would be pushing hard on the China thing if possible), but I don't expect to see him in claret and blue next year. Not sure if we'll get him to play until summer, if we don't find a deal we like now.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> No one mentioned it here, but Jovetic went on loan to Sevilla two days ago. I really hope he can get his career back on track after injuries have destroyed him, he just now scored on his debut.




He just scored for them in his first game today.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Napoli signed 18-year-old Brazilian striker Leandrinho


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

kyle evs48 said:


> I don't think it's that difficult. Yes, new language and culture. But these are modern cities we're talking about, some of them world financial centers. I.e. not bad places to be millionaires.




It's not about city or culture its about football. 



East Coast Bias said:


> Sure but look at the salaries some of these guys are getting.
> 
> They're paying Hulk like he's peak Neymar.




Salaries are ridiculous and you'll get flops or over the hill players but legit talents not any time soon.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

According to Bild, Niklas SÃ¼le is going to Bayern on a five year deal. Rumored fee of around €20M.


----------



## Evilo

L'Equipe reports Payet and OM have struck a deal. But if WH doesn't sell...

Payet is proving how up and down he is, as I explained before he went to England. He's a streaky player, and clearly his streak last year lasted more than any streak before.
But he's still awfully inconsistant.
Marseille wants to spend some cash and show they mean business. They're also trying to get Morgan Sanson out of Montpellier, which is a VERY smart move. Montpellier asks for 20-25M€, which is a minimum IMO. OM will sell him for more than that after two years. PSG and Monaco should have been all over Sanson two years ago already.

Also L'Equipe reports PSG is interested in Batshuayi to backup Cavani. 
He's a decent backup, but they'll pay a huge price (Chelsea will want to make up their stupidity) and they could get someone comparable for half the price.


----------



## Havre

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> It's not about city or culture its about football.
> 
> 
> 
> Salaries are ridiculous and you'll get flops or over the hill players but legit talents not any time soon.




Witsel, Hulk, Oscar etc. are not "legit talents"?

Payet has realistically one more big contract in him. If he can as Oscar 3-4x his salary (maybe even more after tax) I could see that being a compromise everyone could live with.

I don't believe in a mass exodus to China, but after having contemplated for some weeks on those $500k a week...... things might change for quite a few...


----------



## bluesfan94

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> It's not about city or culture its about football.
> 
> 
> 
> Salaries are ridiculous and you'll get flops or over the hill players but legit talents not any time soon.




I consider Hulk/Oscar/Witsel to be legit talents.


----------



## Evilo

Lyon are trying hard to buy Depay.


----------



## hatterson

Any rumors on the asking price? Gotta imagine united wants to recoup most of what they spent.


----------



## East Coast Bias

hatterson said:


> Any rumors on the asking price? Gotta imagine united wants to recoup most of what they spent.




I saw 13m pounds was the offer. 

I'm torn on Memphis. Clearly has loads of talent. But he's a complete head case. Very immature.


----------



## Evilo

hatterson said:


> Any rumors on the asking price? Gotta imagine united wants to recoup most of what they spent.



No, but Lyon's coach just confirmed that Depay was their priority.


----------



## chasespace

Evilo said:


> L'Equipe reports Payet and OM have struck a deal. But if WH doesn't sell...




I've always wondered about headlines like this, wouldn't this be tampering? If WHU hasn't agreed to sell the player why would the player be allowed to talk to the club about contract terms?


----------



## Evilo

These days, tampering is not even laughed at in football. It just is obvious in every deal, like bread and butter.

Upamecano from Salburg to Leipzig.


----------



## Evilo

Just read Lyon's proposal for Depay is 15M€.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> These days, tampering is not even laughed at in football. It just is obvious in every deal, like bread and butter.
> 
> Upamecano from Salburg to Leipzig.




Following Keita's steps. He'll do well there.


----------



## Venkman

Evilo said:


> Just read Lyon's proposal for Depay is 15Mâ‚¬.




Rejected apparently. Manchester Evening News says United want Â£18m so â‚¬20.5m

Schneiderlin to Everton is official. Everton even announced the price, Â£20m rising to Â£24m.

Cleverley to Watford on loan to buy.


----------



## Chimaera

Everton investing pretty heavily. 

Still need a lot more.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Payet reminds me a lot of Nani. As in both players have the skills too be top top players if they were more consistent.


----------



## Timeless Winter

If Payet is complaining about playing CL football, why would he go to Marseille? They're just as bad as West Ham.


----------



## HajdukSplit

Once a big prospect, Romulo leaves Spartak Moscow to return to Brazil with Flamengo, injuries hampered his career and he also went to Russia when they were spending big few years back, replaced now by China of course


----------



## HajdukSplit

Timeless Winter said:


> If Payet is complaining about playing CL football, why would he go to Marseille? They're just as bad as West Ham.




They have a new ownership group (which is American btw) and it appears they will invest heavily. Of course its still a massive rebuild project but likely closer to the CL than West Ham simply because of the competition


----------



## Luigi Habs

HajdukSplit said:


> They have a new ownership group (which is American btw) and it appears they will invest heavily. Of course its still a massive rebuild project but likely closer to the CL than West Ham simply because of the competition




I wouldn't say 'heavily' but still good money by L1 standards. The plan is to invest 80 millions net in 3 years. Which should be around 25-30M net a year, but since they don't have much of value to sell, it'll take a lot of smart investments. Payet, while a very good player, not sure is worth the price tag.


----------



## Evilo

I'm positive he isn't.
Sanson, however, is.


----------



## Alex Jones

The Abusement Park said:


> Payet reminds me a lot of Nani. As in both players have the skills too be top top players if they were more consistent.



I think Nani was less inconsistent as compared to just dumb on the pitch.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Former Russia international keeper Vladimir Gabulov signs with Arsenal Tula as the club is in a relegation battle.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Alex Jones said:


> I think Nani was less inconsistent as compared to just dumb on the pitch.




Not entirely inaccurate. But man when Nani was on and doing his thing was a treat to watch, such a shame he couldn't build on that 2010-11(I think thats what season it was) breakthrough year he had.


----------



## davemess

Well this throws things up into the air



> Diego Costa has been dropped from Chelsea's squad to face Leicester after a row with manager Antonio Conte, according to Sky sources.
> 
> It is understood he has not trained for the last three days after he was the subject of a Â£30m-per-year offer from a club in the Chinese Super League.



http://www.skysports.com/football/n...me-after-offer-from-chinese-super-league-club


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Diego Costa has apparently gotten offers from China and doesn't seem too disinterested. Can't blame him when they have apparently offered him nearly Â£600K a week.

Edit: Just a second too late.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## Alex Jones

spintheblackcircle said:


>




Decent move for all involved considering Swans have a poor midfield, but they really need defenders, possibly four of them.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

spintheblackcircle said:


>





Probably some add-ons included.


----------



## Peen

Holy **** the idea that Diego is leaving is scary

Not ******** sources either, pretty reliable ones too be frank..

He posted this on insta an hour ago but as of now I'm just going to sit back and hope nothing happens.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPOKvO4g0sV/


----------



## Luigi Habs

De Sciglio's agent and Juve have met over a possible move in the summer. He would probably replace Liechtsteiner.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Ola John was loaned to Deportivo La CoruÃ±a


----------



## Edo

Peen said:


> Holy **** the idea that Diego is leaving is scary
> 
> Not ******** sources either, pretty reliable ones too be frank..
> 
> He posted this on insta an hour ago but as of now I'm just going to sit back and hope nothing happens.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BPOKvO4g0sV/




Not really a shocker. Entire Chelsea team is full of guys with insane egos. Moreso than regular footballers. They've always been a ticking time bomb. 

Pretty great that all of this is happening with a few tough games coming up.


----------



## Havre

Edo said:


> Not really a shocker. Entire Chelsea team is full of guys with insane egos. Moreso than regular footballers. They've always been a ticking time bomb.
> 
> Pretty great that all of this is happening with a few tough games coming up.




LetÂ´s see what happens with Sanchez and Ozil.

Not sure if you can judge a whole squad like that. And I donÂ´t like Chelsea one bit. 

South Americans and Africans are already playing away from "home". Moving to Asia or moving to Europe - who cares? And I know quite a lot of African players have openly spoken about the value of making even more money as they send a lot of it back to their families etc.


----------



## Evilo

Apparently, OM offered 23M€ for Payet and was rejected. They will offer 30M€ now.
No way West Ham agrees IMO.


----------



## S E P H

Alex Jones said:


> I think Nani was less inconsistent as compared to just dumb on the pitch.




Nani might have been really dumb, but no one compares to amount of stupidity I had the pleasure of watching in Gervinho. Even if he decided to quit football and become a sprinter, I would have concerns he would have gotten lost on the track. Which sucks because I really liked him.



Evilo said:


> Apparently, OM offered 23M€ for Payet and was rejected. They will offer 30M€ now.
> No way West Ham agrees IMO.



How much does West Ham want for him? Seems like a perfect match for Wenger considering what Arsene likes in player's strengths. Though I highly doubt he comes to Arsenal even if he fills a positional weakness IMO.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Evilo said:


> Apparently, OM offered 23Mâ‚¬ for Payet and was rejected. They will offer 30Mâ‚¬ now.
> No way West Ham agrees IMO.




Seems like they won't sell him in January out of principle. The figure is irrelevant at the moment, but the figure I've seen quoted from their perspective (in the summer) is Â£30million.


----------



## njdevsfn95

Newcastle rumored to want to bring Townsend back from Crystal Palace.


----------



## John Pedro

Dutch users, is that newspaper reliable at all?
http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/27433837/__Ajax_richt_pijlen_op_David_Neres__.html

I'm freaking out, 20M is way too low fee for him. He's better than Lucas Moura, who was sold for 43M. Why do they bring up the fact that he wears #14?


----------



## Alex Jones

S E P H said:


> Nani might have been really dumb, but no one compares to amount of stupidity I had the pleasure of watching in Gervinho. Even if he decided to quit football and become a sprinter, I would have concerns he would have gotten lost on the track. Which sucks because I really liked him.
> 
> 
> How much does West Ham want for him? Seems like a perfect match for Wenger considering what Arsene likes in player's strengths. Though I highly doubt he comes to Arsenal even if he fills a positional weakness IMO.



Supposedly he's been garbage out in China as well. Too much unhealthy food and dodging NFL style rugby tackles.


----------



## John Pedro

Seems like Alexander Isak gonna transfer to Real Madrid. Not sure if it's the best movie for his career as RM already have a great young striker in Sergio Diaz who's got world class potential + all the money in the world.


----------



## Vipers31

Seemed to be a matter of time for a while - SÃ¼le and Rudy to Bayern now confirmed for the summer window. €20M-ish for SÃ¼le, Rudy's on a free.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Zaza to Valencia is official, by the way. 

Later!


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Jersey Fresh said:


> Zaza to Valencia is official, by the way.
> 
> Later!




From bad to worse for Valencia...guy is horrible where ever he goes. Worse than Borini.


----------



## Evilo

Monaco has signed Fabinho to an extension, and is negociating with Lemar, Bakayoko and Germain.

Feels good to see them build a team rather than buy and sell.

Chinese team has apparently made a huge offer for Falcao however.


----------



## Blender

Evilo said:


> Chinese team has apparently made a huge offer for Falcao however.




Chinese teams have tried to buy almost everyone at this point.


----------



## Jeffrey

Evilo said:


> Monaco has signed Fabinho to an extension, and is negociating with Lemar, Bakayoko and Germain.
> 
> Feels good to see them build a team rather than buy and sell.
> 
> Chinese team has apparently made a huge offer for Falcao however.



Selling Falcao wouldn't be the worst thing as they could probably aim for a guy like Moussa Dembele as replacement.


----------



## Evilo

Maybe, but this would send the wrong message. As Falcao proved tonight, he is not at his previous level, but is really starting to reach a very good level, enough to score some big goals.


----------



## Ajacied

John Pedro said:


> Dutch users, is that newspaper reliable at all?
> http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/27433837/__Ajax_richt_pijlen_op_David_Neres__.html
> 
> I'm freaking out, 20M is way too low fee for him. He's better than Lucas Moura, who was sold for 43M. Why do they bring up the fact that he wears #14?




Doubt it will go through. Ajax is very healthy right now, but they've never spent as much on a single player. They could certainly use him, though. El Ghazi is gone, Traore isn't exaxtly setting the world on fire and Cerny is injured. That leaves a very talented, but still only 17 year old Justin Kluivert, as shown today va Zwolle. 

They mentioned his number as it's the same number fellow AM/RW Johan Cruijff used to wear. Nothing more..


----------



## Evilo

Wow, not only has OM bought Morgan Sanson (which as I said, is a tremendous move), but apparently, they managed to lowball Montpellier with an 11M€ offer 
Eleven M is such a low figure I have trouble believing it. And PSG and Monaco will regret it (as well as Lyon and Lille).


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> Eleven M is such a low figure I have trouble believing it. And PSG and Monaco will regret it (as well as Lyon and Lille).




As will Dortmund.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> Wow, not only has OM bought Morgan Sanson (which as I said, is a tremendous move), but apparently, they managed to lowball Montpellier with an 11Mâ‚¬ offer
> Eleven M is such a low figure I have trouble believing it. And PSG and Monaco will regret it (as well as Lyon and Lille).




Few days ago I was reading they will offer around 15M. I was surprised when you suggested 20M. Great bargain if true. 

OM will meet again tomorrow with Westham to discuss Payet. I don't feel he's a priority though. I think it's just to make a statement. Priority for OM should be LB and fwd.


----------



## Evilo

Frankly, Montpellier president asking for 20M€ and settling for 11M€ seems out of character.
And ridiculously low for his talents.


----------



## La Cosa Nostra

Dybala allegedly about to sign a new deal. Adding a year to his deal until 2021 and getting huge pay increase. Also read of a release clause of â‚¬200 mil (never would happen)

Great news. Don't see him going anywhere for a few years.


----------



## Jussi

Jeffrey said:


> Selling Falcao wouldn't be the worst thing as they could probably *aim for a guy like Moussa Dembele as replacement.*




But which one????!!!!


----------



## Jeffrey

Jussi said:


> But which one????!!!!




The Celtic one


----------



## Havre

Jeffrey said:


> Selling Falcao wouldn't be the worst thing as they could probably aim for a guy like Moussa Dembele as replacement.




The Chinese will overpay as usual. So even if Falcao has been quite good for Monaco that sounds like a good deal. He isn't getting any younger.


----------



## John Pedro

Ajacied said:


> Doubt it will go through. Ajax is very healthy right now, but they've never spent as much on a single player. They could certainly use him, though. El Ghazi is gone, Traore isn't exaxtly setting the world on fire and Cerny is injured. That leaves a very talented, but still only 17 year old Justin Kluivert, as shown today va Zwolle.
> 
> They mentioned his number as it's the same number fellow AM/RW Johan Cruijff used to wear. Nothing more..




I see... though I doubt he will wear the same number going forward. He used to wear #11 in the youth squad, but that number was already taken in the senior squad. 

Hope it's just a rumor, still too young to leave.


----------



## Vipers31

Robben's expiring contract extended for one more season. Surely deserved, and a good way to approach things with the short term deal.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Grillitsch to Hoffenheim next year confirmed. cgf will be mildly unhappy.



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> As will Dortmund.




meh


----------



## YNWA14

Vipers31 said:


> Robben's expiring contract extended for one more season. Surely deserved, and a good way to approach things with the short term deal.




He's still their best player when fit. Maybe it's just confirmation bias but they never seem to do as well when he's out.


----------



## Vipers31

Curtinho said:


> He's still their best player when fit. Maybe it's just confirmation bias but they never seem to do as well when he's out.




As long as we're not counting Neuer, he certainly has a case. He has not been consistently world-class, obviously, which is very understandable given his age and injuries, but all our other guys in that category have struggled with consistency a fair bit in the past year, themselves. He's undoubtedly a great asset when fit and always a potential difference-maker, so I'm happy to keep him around.


----------



## Evilo

West Ham and OM officials met and agreed on a sale. Fee has to be agreed though.


----------



## hatterson

Evilo said:


> West Ham and OM officials met and agreed on a sale. Fee has to be agreed though.




For January? Or waiting until the summer?


----------



## Evilo

For right now. Per l'Equipe.


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> Grillitsch to Hoffenheim next year confirmed. cgf will be mildly unhappy.
> 
> 
> 
> meh




He'll be a nice upgrade on Rudy for them; definitely irritating though, as Grillitsch could've helped BMG this year if they worked out a winter transfer...unlike Benes, Sow & Ndenge.


----------



## S E P H

Evilo said:


> West Ham and OM officials met and agreed on a sale. Fee has to be agreed though.




Didn't OM just bid one extra million for Payet?


----------



## Vipers31

Evilo said:


> West Ham and OM officials met and agreed on a sale. Fee has to be agreed though.




Help me out, what exactly have the clubs agreed upon if they haven't agreed on a fee? I mean, the Macallan distillery and I have certainly agreed on them selling me a 50 year old whisky in general, but until we find an agreement on the fee, there isn't really a sale to speak of.


----------



## bluesfan94

Vipers31 said:


> Help me out, what exactly have the clubs agreed upon if they haven't agreed on a fee? I mean, the Macallan distillery and I have certainly agreed on them selling me a 50 year old whisky in general, but until we find an agreement on the fee, there isn't really a sale to speak of.




West Ham agreeing to sell is a big step. It would be like one Macallan didn't want to sell their 50-year. Also good taste. Plus the fee might be different based on how it's structured.


----------



## hatterson

Vipers31 said:


> Help me out, what exactly have the clubs agreed upon if they haven't agreed on a fee? I mean, the Macallan distillery and I have certainly agreed on them selling me a 50 year old whisky in general, but until we find an agreement on the fee, there isn't really a sale to speak of.




Until now West Ham had a "Absolutely not selling no matter the price" stance. Basically saying to Payet if he doesn't want to play, then he can ride the bench.

Them actually agreeing to a sale means that it's possible to negotiate and pry him away instead of just having offers thrown at a brick wall.


----------



## Vipers31

bluesfan94 said:


> West Ham agreeing to sell is a big step. It would be like one Macallan didn't want to sell their 50-year. Also good taste. Plus the fee might be different based on how it's structured.




There's only a handful of teams for which transfers don't depend on money, though. West Ham isn't Barca, Real, Bayern or Manchester. A sale was always going to depend on whether they get the fee they are looking for. Them agreeing to sell if they get what they ask doesn't seem like a big development, to me.

I guess if they very outspoken about not being willing to sell before, I see how it's news. Incredibly predictable news, but news.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

evilo said:


> west ham and om officials met and agreed on a sale. Fee has to be agreed though.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> He'll be a nice upgrade on Rudy for them; definitely irritating though, as Grillitsch could've helped BMG this year if they worked out a winter transfer...unlike Benes, Sow & Ndenge.




Grillitsch seems nice but I'm not yet convinced he's a upgrade on Rudy.


----------



## Evilo

Vipers31 said:


> Help me out, what exactly have the clubs agreed upon if they haven't agreed on a fee? I mean, the Macallan distillery and I have certainly agreed on them selling me a 50 year old whisky in general, but until we find an agreement on the fee, there isn't really a sale to speak of.




They agreed to sell. Probably didn't agree on the fee.


----------



## Halladay

spintheblackcircle said:


>





Arsenal has very similar song about Ozil as West Ham does to Payet .


----------



## Jersey Fresh

spintheblackcircle said:


>





Lol at improving their offer by Â£1m. They flew to London for that?

Ultimately, West Ham have no leverage here. Payet only wants to go to Marseille and they are the only ones to make an offer. All they can do is refuse to sell until the summer.


----------



## Milos Krasic




----------



## Walshy7

Jersey Fresh said:


> Lol at improving their offer by Â£1m. They flew to London for that?
> 
> Ultimately, *West Ham have no leverage here*. Payet only wants to go to Marseille and they are the only ones to make an offer. All they can do is refuse to sell until the summer.




well I mean they could hold him for the 5 year contract, he is 29 not long left in he game for him. The refusing to play part as a hammer fan pisses me off and I hope they hold on to him as long as they can even if its just the summer. He demanded a "loyalty" bonus in his new contract, to pull this now he can go **** himself.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Walshy7 said:


> well I mean they could hold him for the 5 year contract, he is 29 not long left in he game for him. The refusing to play part as a hammer fan pisses me off and I hope they hold on to him as long as they can even if its just the summer. He demanded a "loyalty" bonus in his new contract, to pull this now he can go **** himself.




When do you see that happen, like ever, though? Not to mention, in practical terms West Ham gains nothing from that. Take the money and be done with him. I have no issue waiting until the summer, though. Payet seems quite mercurial, waiting until the summer allows the potential for his head to get turned by other suitors and drive up the price. Right now, Marseille is in the driver's seat. 

Credit to Evilo for calling Payet what he was. I knew a bit about his history in France, but I genuinely did think based on his comments and commitment over the summer that he had matured a bit at 29. Clearly, got that one wrong. I don't really the buy the whole story about his family being unsettled in England explaining this whole situation.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Chelsea being linked to Adama Traore. With Bamford going to Boro, I'd assume that moves are somewhat linked to each other.


----------



## robertmac43

Another Transfer window where Ricardo Rodriguez is linked to Arsenal. Would definitely be nice to add a new LB, doubtful anything happens again.


----------



## Blender

robertmac43 said:


> Another Transfer window where Ricardo Rodriguez is linked to Arsenal. Would definitely be nice to add a new LB, doubtful anything happens again.




I swear this has came up every transfer window for a couple years now.


----------



## hatterson

Walshy7 said:


> well I mean they could hold him for the 5 year contract, he is 29 not long left in he game for him. The refusing to play part as a hammer fan pisses me off and I hope they hold on to him as long as they can even if its just the summer. He demanded a "loyalty" bonus in his new contract, to pull this now he can go **** himself.




Yea, they could let him rot. And give up on 20M in transfer fees as well as paying his salary the entire time. IIRC his wages are the highest in club history.

Sure they've got a new stadium, but they're far from being at the point where they can just throw away club high wages as well as 20M in cash and still think they can compete, especially given that they bombed out of the EL and won't be getting back this year.


----------



## davemess

If I am West Ham I probably take the Â£20mill at this point. I would want something in the contract that gives them an insane payment if Payet moves on from OM in the next 3 years though.


----------



## Blender

davemess said:


> If I am West Ham I probably take the Â£20mill at this point. I would want something in the contract that gives them an insane payment if Payet moves on from OM in the next 3 years though.




Yup, I agree. It's pretty ****** that he is doing this to them mid season right after signing a huge new contract, but if he's going to sit out might as well move him. Â£20m is almost twice what they paid for him, and if they can get a percentage of their next sale or a future fee tossed in, it should be a decent sell even if it's under what they value him at.


----------



## Luigi Habs

So Morgan Sanson to OM is official for â‚¬9M with bonus that could make the deal rise to â‚¬12M. 

I tried to make the same offer on Football Manager and Montpellier wanted â‚¬77M **** !!


----------



## Evilo

Jersey Fresh said:


> Credit to Evilo for calling Payet what he was. I knew a bit about his history in France, but I genuinely did think based on his comments and commitment over the summer that he had matured a bit at 29. Clearly, got that one wrong. I don't really the buy the whole story about his family being unsettled in England explaining this whole situation.




He played the exact same trick on St Etienne in order to move to PSG. Kombouare (PSG coach at the time) said it was unprofessional (to stop training) and stopped any PSG interest. He signed with Lille later on.
Of course, OM won't have the same ethics 

People can call me out saying I defend any french player, but it's really not true and Payet is another example. As talented as he is, he's a mercenary and completely immature.
He's 29 and has played for Le Havre, Nantes, St Etienne, Lille, OM and West Ham. That's not even an average of 2 years on a team. You can write Anelka and Ribery (pre Bayern) on him.


----------



## Evilo

bleedblue1223 said:


> Chelsea being linked to Adama Traore. With Bamford going to Boro, I'd assume that moves are somewhat linked to each other.




Which Adama TraorÃ©?


----------



## Evilo

Luiginho said:


> So Morgan Sanson to OM is official for â‚¬9M with bonus that could make the deal rise to â‚¬12M.
> 
> I tried to make the same offer on Football Manager and Montpellier wanted â‚¬77M **** !!




For once FM is closer to what should be than RL


----------



## Blender

Luiginho said:


> So Morgan Sanson to OM is official for â‚¬9M with bonus that could make the deal rise to â‚¬12M.
> 
> I tried to make the same offer on Football Manager and Montpellier wanted â‚¬77M **** !!




FM always makes you overpay like crazy unless the player is unhappy, transfer listed, or has a release clause.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Evilo said:


> Which Adama TraorÃ©?




Middlesbrough's.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## Evilo

Thanks !
There are so many Adama TraorÃ©, I'm lost. We're talking about the FC Barcelona one here IIRC.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Yep, but since he's played for Villa and Boro, he wouldn't be able to play for Chelsea this season, so it would be a buy and loan back to Boro situation. 

We need WB cover now for a title run, so we probably go for someone else.


----------



## Burner Account

Nono Toure


----------



## Vasilevskiy

As I expected and said a few days ago, Jovetic's turning out great for Sevilla. 

Monchi did it again...


----------



## Ceremony

spintheblackcircle said:


>





How plastic do you have to be to have this sort of thing on the outside of the stadium you play in?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Ceremony said:


> How plastic do you have to be to have this sort of thing on the outside of the stadium you play in?




Reminds me of this classic:


----------



## HajdukSplit

Paraguayan international Oscar Romero (who was a MLS target) signs for a club in China but is immediately loaned to Alaves in La Liga for the rest of the season

Swansea sign Tom Carroll and Martin Olsson

Papadopoulos joins Hamburg on loan from Leverkusen, he was with RB Leipzig in the first half of the season but rarely played


----------



## Edo

As long as Payet doesn't go to a rival, I don't see what the huge deal is. I'm sure he would've been more interested in staying had West Ham been a little more competitive. West Ham are safe from regulation even without him, so there is no reason to not let him go. They basically have nothing to play for. 

West Ham got Payet at a bargain and are going to sell him at a profit after probably getting his best years from him. 

We've all seen some cringe worthy transfer demands from players. Him wanting to leave is so low on the BS meter.


----------



## Havre

Might as well just shut the whole club down then 

I don't disagree that a club like WH is better off in their current situation to sell before the player(s) start to decline, but I see why they would rather want to be in control of that themselves. I don't think they can catch Everton, but with a Payet in form 8th is certainly within reach. Without Payet they are most likely going to stay around 12th. Not an insignificant difference.

Payet also brings some excitement and star power for them to fill the new stadium. Casual fans are not going to pay extra to see Mark Noble, but they might for Payet.

Also there are quite a few reasons for the club to make a big deal out of this. They might get bids from others pushing the price up. They signal to the fans that they didn't have any choice. If WH sells their star player in the winter window "voluntarily" a lot of fans would be dissatisfied with the club - now that dissatisfaction is directed towards Payet instead.


----------



## Evilo

More than anything, I think WH fans have every right to be disapointed given the player's words last summer and the team he's trying to go to. We're not talking about going to Barca, Real or Bayern here.
It's OM. A team ranked something like 6th in L1, that just got chopped 4-1 by Monaco (after being spanked 4-0 in the previous game against Monaco). Even with Sanson and Payet, as long as their D is that weak, they won't even finish top 3 and thus be out of the CL next year when he'll be 30.

Nah, Payet's throwing a tantrum like he often does.
I'm sure OM will love his 4 month hot streak followed by 6 months of crappiness.


----------



## maclean

Edo said:


> West Ham got Payet at a bargain and are going to sell him at a profit after probably getting his best years from him.
> 
> We've all seen some cringe worthy transfer demands from players. Him wanting to leave is so low on the BS meter.




I think it's pretty arguable that they could've got more for him in the summer after his huge Euro campaign (following up on a huge season). Instead however he declared his eternal love for the club. I know I'd be miffed in a situation like that


----------



## Halladay

Deficient Mode said:


> Reminds me of this classic:




Right before Dortmund lost the final to Bayern .


----------



## Evilo

maclean said:


> I think it's pretty arguable that they could've got more for him in the summer after his huge Euro campaign (following up on a huge season). Instead however he declared his eternal love for the club. I know I'd be miffed in a situation like that




And in fact he didn't have a great Euro. It's weird because what you talk about here is exactly what's being written by journalists, thanks to his amazing winning goal in the first game and one key move in the second game.
He was absolutely ridiculously bad in the rest of the tournament.

But his goal was so clutch and so amazing that people tend to think of him as a Euro performer.

EDIT : a good comparison would be the fans saying Zidane had a great 98 WC. In fact, he sucked for the whole tournament except the final. Payet was the same way except it was in the first games and then he sucked.


----------



## Bure80

Dortmund is interested in Kylian Mbappe.
https://twitter.com/RBairner/status/821502121891758080

Never heared of him. Just read he is seen as new Henry In France.
Maybe someone who knows him can say more.


----------



## Jeffrey

Bure80 said:


> Dortmund is interested in Kylian Mbappe.
> https://twitter.com/RBairner/status/821502121891758080
> 
> Never heared of him. Just read he is seen as new Henry In France.



If Dortmund appreciate Ousmane Dembele they would appreciate Mbappe even more. With that being said you don't get MbappÃ© if you don't plan to play him every game as he has been pretty vocal on the lack of playing time in the past with the first team. It also must mean that some of their players would be off... Pulisic? Reus? Gotze? Aubameyang?


----------



## Bure80

Jeffrey said:


> If Dortmund appreciate Ousmane Dembele they would appreciate Mbappe even more. With that being said you don't get MbappÃ© if you don't plan to play him which must mean that some of their players would be off... Pulisic? Reus? Gotze? Aubameyang?




He is just 18. If they buy him he will be the replacement for Auba anytime.
Dont know if he will be off after this season. Not long ago he bought a house in Dortmund.


----------



## John Pedro

Monaco is no Rennes... they aren't gonna sell MbappÃ© for any less than what they got for Martial. Too much for Dortmund, I'd think.

Lille has made an offer for Luiz Araujo after Santos rejected their 8M offer for Vitor Bueno.


----------



## Bure80

John Pedro said:


> Monaco is no Rennes... they aren't gonna sell MbappÃ© for any less than what they got for Martial. Too much for Dortmund, I'd think.
> 
> Lille has made an offer for Luiz Araujo after Santos rejected their 8M offer for Vitor Bueno.




Dortmund is the 11th richest Club in the world. If they want they can.
Even more if they sell Aubameyang in the summer.
I heared they are scounting him since 2 years. They dont doing this for fun.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Jeffrey said:


> If Dortmund appreciate Ousmane Dembele they would appreciate Mbappe even more.




I doubt that from what I've seen of him



Bure80 said:


> Dortmund is the 11th richest Club in the world. If they want they can.
> Even more if they sell Aubameyang in the summer.
> I heared they are scounting him since 2 years. They dont doing this for fun.




I'm sure Dortmund are interested... as are a lot of other clubs. It's not really big news.


----------



## John Pedro

Bure80 said:


> Dortmund is the 11th richest Club in the world. If they want they can.
> Even more if they sell Aubameyang in the summer.
> I heared they are scounting him since 2 years. They dont doing this for fun.




They're very rich, no doubt. But they don't seem like the type of team that spends big buckets of money on a single guy. 

That could be an exception as MpampÃ© is crazy good, but still.


----------



## Deficient Mode

John Pedro said:


> They're very rich, no doubt. But they don't seem like the type of team that spends big buckets of money on a single guy.
> 
> That could be an exception as MpampÃ© is crazy good, but still.




It could happen if they have a huge transfer windfall from selling Aubameyang. Maybe they'd plan to convert Mbappe into a central striker as well... he seems capable of that.


----------



## Vipers31

BILD is citing French sources that link Bayern with Verratti. Supposed ask would be €80M. 

I've no idea whether there's anything there, but his name has been floating around Bayern for quite a long time, and the club has somewhat regularly brought up that they'll break into that kind of range for transfers earlier or later. I wouldn't be shocked if this was going to be that. (I would obviously be far less shocked if it isn't and Verratti just stays put, given his long contract at an incredibly wealthy club.)


----------



## Ceremony

Deficient Mode said:


> Reminds me of this classic:




I'm not sure if you can sing that to the tune of Achy Breaky Heart.


----------



## Evilo

MbappÃ© will break the french record for transfer. Will beat Martial's fee.
No chance Dortmund gets him IMO. He's already too big of a fish. Monaco turned down City's 40Mâ‚¬ bid last summer, and he's proven much more since then.
When Monaco unleashes MbappÃ©'s playing time he'll be one of the most talked about players in football circles.


----------



## Evilo

Vipers31 said:


> BILD is citing French sources that link Bayern with Verratti. Supposed ask would be â‚¬80M.
> 
> I've no idea whether there's anything there, but his name has been floating around Bayern for quite a long time, and the club has somewhat regularly brought up that they'll break into that kind of range for transfers earlier or later. I wouldn't be shocked if this was going to be that. (I would obviously be far less shocked if it isn't and Verratti just stays put, given his long contract at an incredibly wealthy club.)




Ancelotti loves him. As he should. 
But Verratti isn't interested apparently and PSG neither.
Though is PSG fails in the CL and don't make big moves soon, I'm betting he moves as early as next summer. But if he does, I can tell you Bayern won't be the only players. Juventus, Real and maybe Barca will be there.


----------



## Evilo

Multiple sources say OL and United have agreed on a fee for Memphis Depay.


----------



## Bure80

Evilo said:


> No chance Dortmund gets him IMO. He's already too big of a fish. Monaco turned down City's 40Mâ‚¬ bid last summer, and he's proven much more since then.




If thats a fact, Dortmund can only buy him if they get around 100Mâ‚¬ for Auba in the summer.


----------



## Vipers31

Evilo said:


> Ancelotti loves him. As he should.
> But Verratti isn't interested apparently and PSG neither.
> Though is PSG fails in the CL and don't make big moves soon, I'm betting he moves as early as next summer. But if he does, I can tell you Bayern won't be the only players. Juventus, Real and maybe Barca will be there.




I don't doubt that.


----------



## hatterson

Evilo said:


> Multiple sources say OL and United have agreed on a fee for Memphis Depay.




Stuff I've heard is that the fee is in the Â£15M/â‚¬17M range

Not great considering they paid something like â‚¬30M or â‚¬35M for him a year and a half ago.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Would be fine with this if all the details are correct here.


----------



## S E P H

spintheblackcircle said:


>





But, but, but, but.....they were offering him cake on his birthday as part of his contract though.



Bure80 said:


> Dortmund is the 11th richest Club in the world. If they want they can.
> Even more if they sell Aubameyang in the summer.
> I heared they are scounting him since 2 years. They dont doing this for fun.



BVB being the 11th richest club tells how poor the rest of the world is than how rich Dortmund is.


----------



## Bon Esprit

S E P H said:


> BVB being the 11th richest club tells how poor the rest of the world is than how rich Dortmund is.




And it shows how bad many former top clubs are actually are managed considering that BVB was almost dead in 2005, being in depth with 98m euros.


----------



## Deficient Mode

S E P H said:


> BVB being the 11th richest club tells how poor the rest of the world is than how rich Dortmund is.




Their annual revenue is still almost twice Southampton's, my financial genius friend.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Deficient Mode said:


> Their annual revenue is still almost twice Southampton's, my financial genius friend.




Brilliant


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I wish Dortmund was linked with some more center-backs and right-backs and central-midfielders. 

Are there any good talents in France at those positions? If one of the attacking players is leaving in the next year, it makes sense. Otherwise, it seems like they are just trying to get all the good young attackers in Europe. 

I also don't know why Dortmund can't compete with teams like Man City, Arsenal, Man United, Atletico, Juve, Chelsea, Sevilla. Maybe if the price is 100 million we can't, but if we get money for Auba leaving, I don't know why we couldn't pay 50 million. I also think Dortmund is a much better option for a young attacker than those clubs, as we've shown we'll play those players. We are also probably a better team than all those clubs anyway.


----------



## S E P H

Bon Esprit said:


> And it shows how bad many former top clubs are actually are managed considering that BVB was almost dead in 2005, being in depth with 98m euros.






Deficient Mode said:


> Their annual revenue is still almost twice Southampton's, my financial genius friend.



Proves my point how much of a feeder team they are to the rest of western Europe. You clearly don't wipe away 98 million Euro debt buying prime players and winning championships.

Of course you still miss the point about me comparing them to Southampton. Never said that Saints were better, just that both clubs are feeder teams for their respected leagues.


----------



## Bure80

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I also don't know why Dortmund can't compete with teams like Man City, Arsenal, Man United, Atletico, Juve, Chelsea, Sevilla. Maybe if the price is 100 million we can't, but if we get money for Auba leaving, I don't know why we couldn't pay 50 million. I also think Dortmund is a much better option for a young attacker than those clubs, as we've shown we'll play those players. We are also probably a better team than all those clubs anyway.




A few years ago Dortmund was near bankrupt. For this fact its not to bad to be No 11 in the world.
Dortmund cant compete with the English Clubs because of 2 facts.

-English Clubs get much more broadcasting Revenue
-Dortmund has no sheik or other Investor.

There is a rule in Germany that you cant sell 50 % or more to an Investor.


----------



## Edo

Evilo said:


> Ancelotti loves him. As he should.
> But Verratti isn't interested apparently and PSG neither.
> Though is PSG fails in the CL and don't make big moves soon, I'm betting he moves as early as next summer. *But if he does, I can tell you Bayern won't be the only players. Juventus, Real and maybe Barca will be there.*




...and Arsenal.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bure80 said:


> A few years ago Dortmund was near bankrupt. For this fact its not to bad to be No 11 in the world.
> Dortmund cant compete with the English Clubs because of 2 facts.
> 
> -English Clubs get much more broadcasting Revenue
> -Dortmund has no sheik or other Investor.
> 
> There is a rule in Germany that you cant sell 50 % or more to an Investor.




I want to add that Dortmund has shareholders who wanted and want to see dividends after years of despair. They are paying dividends since 2012 now after at least 6 years without dividends.


----------



## Halladay

Edo said:


> ...and Arsenal.




April fools is in about two and half months.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bure80 said:


> A few years ago Dortmund was near bankrupt. For this fact its not to bad to be No 11 in the world.
> Dortmund cant compete with the English Clubs because of 2 facts.
> 
> -English Clubs get much more broadcasting Revenue
> -Dortmund has no sheik or other Investor.
> 
> There is a rule in Germany that you cant sell 50 % or more to an Investor.




We paid 30 million euros for Schurrle who isn't good, so I don't know why 40 or 50 million would be out of range, if we sold some players in the next year or two. I'm not saying we'll get in a bidding war, but its not like we are Ingolstadt or Darmstadt compared to those clubs. There is a reason why a good young player who has every team in the world chasing them would choose Dortmund over the English clubs, Juve, Atletico, Sevilla, PSG, teams like that. If Madrid, Barca, Bavaria comes calling, we probably just can't compete, but with the other teams, I think there are reasons why a player would choose to play for Dortmund over those other teams.


----------



## I Eat Crow

I'm happy United got a buy back clause in Memphis' transfer. He got a raw deal here. Very skilled, but just needed to grow up a bit on and off the field.


----------



## East Coast Bias

I Eat Crow said:


> I'm happy United got a buy back clause in Memphis' transfer. He got a raw deal here. Very skilled, but just needed to grow up a bit on and off the field.




Sounds like the buy back clause was BS. Reports out of France are saying no buy back. 

Evilo - are you hearing the same? no buy back


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I wish Dortmund was linked with some more center-backs and right-backs and central-midfielders.
> 
> Are there any good talents in France at those positions?




Of course.
If you mean young talents, at CB you have Diop, Sarr, etc...
At RB, Corchia isn't exactly young, but he's baiscally Guerreiro, on the right side.
CM : you had Morgan Sanson... 9 MF Mâ‚¬ to OM... still can't believe it.


----------



## I Eat Crow

Well that sucks...


----------



## Evilo

Here media says the deal is closed and some details need to be finalized.
Could be that clause, I don't know.


----------



## Deficient Mode

S E P H said:


> Proves my point how much of a feeder team they are to the rest of western Europe. You clearly don't wipe away 98 million Euro debt buying prime players and winning championships.
> 
> Of course you still miss the point about me comparing them to Southampton. Never said that Saints were better, just that both clubs are feeder teams for their respected leagues.




If Arsenal had any good young players that other clubs in their league really wanted, they'd still be a feeder team to United too. One big benefit of buying your two best players when they're already 25+ and cast off from a bigger club. Other bigger clubs just won't bother with players with only a few years left at the top.



East Coast Bias said:


> Sounds like the buy back clause was BS. Reports out of France are saying no buy back.
> 
> Evilo - are you hearing the same? no buy back





It took me a minute to wrap my head around all the potential clauses and their value for United. Sell a player for half the price for which you bought him but include a clause to buy him back or get a fraction of the fee if he is resold. 

Depay is still a very promising player imo.


----------



## Bure80

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> We paid 30 million euros for Schurrle who isn't good, so I don't know why 40 or 50 million would be out of range, if we sold some players in the next year or two. I'm not saying we'll get in a bidding war, but its not like we are Ingolstadt or Darmstadt compared to those clubs. There is a reason why a good young player who has every team in the world chasing them would choose Dortmund over the English clubs, Juve, Atletico, Sevilla, PSG, teams like that. If Madrid, Barca, Bavaria comes calling, we probably just can't compete, but with the other teams, I think there are reasons why a player would choose to play for Dortmund over those other teams.




Maybe beside Aubameyang i dont think Dortmund wants to sell players. All interesting players have long contracts. They will try to find a cheaper Version of Kylian Mbappe. If Mislintat is involved i dont worry. He has found so much talent. Last week he was promoted to squadplanner.


----------



## bluesfan94

Deficient Mode said:


> If Arsenal had any good young players that other clubs in their league really wanted, they'd still be a feeder team to United too. One big benefit of buying your two best players when they're already 25+ and cast off from a bigger club. Other bigger clubs just won't bother with players with only a few years left at the top.
> 
> 
> 
> It took me a minute to wrap my head around all the potential clauses and their value for United. Sell a player for half the price for which you bought him but include a clause to buy him back or get a fraction of the fee if he is resold.
> 
> Depay is still a very promising player imo.




Bellerin? Mustafi? Iwobi? Ox? Xhaka? All under 25 and would be coveted by big teams. Arsenal hasn't been a seller recently. Rather, they've been buying (Sanchez/Ã–zil/Xhaka/Mustafi). Remains to be seen what they become. They certainly were a seller whilst building their stadium (something else Havre misses).


----------



## East Coast Bias

Deficient Mode said:


> If Arsenal had any good young players that other clubs in their league really wanted, they'd still be a feeder team to United too. One big benefit of buying your two best players when they're already 25+ and cast off from a bigger club. Other bigger clubs just won't bother with players with only a few years left at the top.
> 
> 
> 
> It took me a minute to wrap my head around all the potential clauses and their value for United. Sell a player for half the price for which you bought him but include a clause to buy him back or get a fraction of the fee if he is resold.
> 
> Depay is still a very promising player imo.




Yeah I agree. I don't know why they didn't just loan him out. 

If they have a buy back and sell on clause I'm less concerned. 

But an outright sale for that price doesn't seem bright.


----------



## cgf

bluesfan94 said:


> Bellerin? Mustafi? Iwobi? Ox? Xhaka? All under 25 and would be coveted by big teams. Arsenal hasn't been a seller recently. Rather, they've been buying (Sanchez/Ã–zil/Xhaka/Mustafi). Remains to be seen what they become. They certainly were a seller whilst building their stadium (something else Havre misses).




Bellerin is the only one an FCB or Real will come for and we'll see if he stays when Barca are calling. Xhaka's the next closest, and we'll see how long his Arsenal tenure lasts; although with his hot headness & lack of mobility I wouldn't be surprised if neither FCB nor Real come for him.


----------



## bluesfan94

cgf said:


> Bellerin is the only one an FCB or Real will come for and we'll see if he stays when Barca are calling. Xhaka's the next closest, and we'll see how long his Arsenal tenure lasts; although with his hot headness & lack of mobility I wouldn't be surprised if neither FCB nor Real come for him.




I wouldn't sell iwobi short just yet. But while those teams might not come after them, the Chelsea/united/city's of the world certainly might, especially ox/iwobi as they're homegrown. 

It'll also be important to see how other players develop like Reine-Adelaide, Crowley, and Nwakali. My point is only that it's too early to say what Arsenal's role will be.


----------



## Luigi Habs

cgf said:


> Bellerin is the only one an FCB or Real will come for and we'll see if he stays when Barca are calling. Xhaka's the next closest, and we'll see how long his Arsenal tenure lasts; although with his hot headness & lack of mobility I wouldn't be surprised if neither FCB nor Real come for him.




Xhaka to Barca or Real? Nah man he's not that good. He had struggled at times this season.


----------



## Deficient Mode

bluesfan94 said:


> Bellerin? Mustafi? Iwobi? Ox? Xhaka? All under 25 and would be coveted by big teams. Arsenal hasn't been a seller recently. Rather, they've been buying (Sanchez/Ã–zil/Xhaka/Mustafi). Remains to be seen what they become. They certainly were a seller whilst building their stadium (something else Havre misses).




Bigger clubs had the chance to buy Mustafi and Xhaka last summer and didn't bother. I'm not as high on Bellerin, Ox, or Xhaka as some others are. I like Iwobi though. Arsenal can build a very good squad, but the U25 players you mentioned aren't on par with the players Dortmund was forced to sell in recent years.


----------



## Havre

bluesfan94 said:


> Bellerin? Mustafi? Iwobi? Ox? Xhaka? All under 25 and would be coveted by big teams. Arsenal hasn't been a seller recently. Rather, they've been buying (Sanchez/Ã–zil/Xhaka/Mustafi). Remains to be seen what they become. They certainly were a seller whilst building their stadium (something else Havre misses).




Haha. What a cheap shot.

Have I ever said a stadium is for free?

I guess instead of discussing the issue it is easier to just invent things. Up to you.


----------



## bluesfan94

Havre said:


> Haha. What a cheap shot.
> 
> Have I ever said a stadium is for free?
> 
> I guess instead of discussing the issue it is easier to just invent things. Up to you.




Did I say you said the stadium was free? 

I guess instead of discussing the issue it is easier to just invent things. Up to you.

I expanded further elsewhere.


----------



## Havre

So what was the point of your comment then?


----------



## Edo

Deficient Mode said:


> Bigger clubs had the chance to buy Mustafi and Xhaka last summer and didn't bother. I'm not as high on *Bellerin*, Ox, or Xhaka as some others are. I like Iwobi though. Arsenal can build a very good squad, but the U25 players you mentioned aren't on par with the players Dortmund was forced to sell in recent years.




Hector Bellerin is 21 and is a top RB. If he were in Germany, you'd be all over him . Who of note has Dortmund exactly sold in the last few years that were U25? 

I am resigned to Bellerin leaving for Madrid or Barcelona at some point. It's not like he'll pull a RVP and completely turn into the worst human being in the history of mankind.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Edo said:


> Hector Bellerin is 21 and is a top RB. If he were in Germany, you'd be all over him . Who of note has Dortmund exactly sold in the last few years that were U25?
> 
> I am resigned to Bellerin leaving for Madrid or Barcelona at some point. It's not like he'll pull a RVP and completely turn into the worst human being in the history of mankind.




No I just think Bellerin is overrated. GÃ¶tze and Kagawa. But the point was that those players (Mkhi, GÃ¼ndogan, Lewandowski) left Dortmund at around the same age as when Sanchez and Ã–zil left Barca and Madrid, and they came to Dortmund in their early 20s. Barring a complete disaster, Ã–zil and Sanchez would stay at their new club for 2-3 years at least, and probably be 29 after those 3 years. They're both great players, but at that age, it's not worth it for a giant club to pay a big fee for just a couple of years of a player's career if a club like Arsenal really wants to keep them. Different stages of a career.

Being a "feeder" club for a domestic or a foreign club doesn't really make a huge difference in status imo.


----------



## Edo

Deficient Mode said:


> No I just think Bellerin is overrated. GÃ¶tze and Kagawa. But the point was that those players (Mkhi, GÃ¼ndogan, Lewandowski) left Dortmund at around the same age as when Sanchez and Ã–zil left Barca and Madrid, and they came to Dortmund in their early 20s. Barring a complete disaster, Ã–zil and Sanchez would stay at their new club for 2-3 years at least, and probably be 29 after those 3 years. They're both great players, but at that age, it's not worth it for a giant club to pay a big fee for just a couple of years of a player's career if a club like Arsenal really wants to keep them. Different stages of a career.
> 
> *Being a "feeder" club for a domestic or a foreign club doesn't really make a huge difference in status imo.*




I agree here. There are three clubs that no fan should be upset losing players to. Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Bayern Munich. Juventus should be up there but they seem to be content with just dominating Italy. 

Leaving for United/City isn't the same. It's money driven. United lost that shine long ago.


----------



## Evilo

No sure ofthe validity of the sources really, but reports here say PSG are all over Alexis Sanchez for next summer.
Also, United are ready to pay 80M€ to Monaco for Bernardo Silva.


----------



## Havre

Why don't City go after Fonte? Even if only for half a season. He would be perfect for them as a short-term fix (or as perfect as a short-term fix can ever be).


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bure80 said:


> Maybe beside Aubameyang i dont think Dortmund wants to sell players. All interesting players have long contracts. They will try to find a cheaper Version of Kylian Mbappe. If Mislintat is involved i dont worry. He has found so much talent. Last week he was promoted to squadplanner.




Well, according to "well informed" sources Auba just bought a mansion in Dortmund.


----------



## John Pedro

Evilo said:


> No sure ofthe validity of the sources really, but reports here say PSG are all over Alexis Sanchez for next summer.
> Also, United are ready to pay 80M€ to Monaco for Bernardo Silva.




And Arsenal wants Lucas Moura to replace him (Sanchez). Monaco going to make serious money on the back of Bernardo and Lemar...


----------



## Evilo

Lemar is signing an extension these days. Doubt he moves this summer, except if major huge offer comes in.

PSG would love to ditch Moura for Sanchez.


----------



## John Pedro

Evilo said:


> Lemar is signing an extension these days. Doubt he moves this summer, except if major huge offer comes in.
> 
> PSG would love to ditch Moura for Sanchez.




They sure would. Cavani and Sanchez would work great together. Should get rid of Di Maria, too.

Sanchez-Cavani-Draxler that's a nice looking trident, at least on paper.


----------



## bleedblue1223

John Pedro said:


> And Arsenal wants Lucas Moura to replace him (Sanchez).




Haha.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Man City will be trying to pursue Danny Rose in the summer. Would be a good buy for them.

Liverpool rejected a loan offer from Southampton for Sakho. I don't understand what they're doing with him, if Klopp doesn't want him why is he not letting him go?


----------



## Prntscrn

Luiginho said:


> Liverpool rejected a loan offer from Southampton for Sakho. I don't understand what they're doing with him, if Klopp doesn't want him why is he not letting him go?




They want to sell him not loan him out


----------



## Savant

Glory said:


> They want to sell him not loan him out




Southampton also cannot tell Liverpool that they do not have the money with a straight face.


----------



## Corto

Savant said:


> Southampton also cannot tell Liverpool that they do not have the money with a straight face.




What I don't understand is why West Ham don't go for Sakho instead of Fonte.

They need an upgrade over Ogbonna to play with Reid, and Fonte just seems like more of the same, only older.


----------



## Savant

Corto said:


> What I don't understand is why West Ham don't go for Sakho instead of Fonte.
> 
> They need an upgrade over Ogbonna to play with Reid, and Fonte just seems like more of the same, only older.




I don't think Liverpool care who they sell to as long as it's not a loan. 

Which is great. I am sick of those dumb loans they have had a habit of doing.


----------



## Chimaera

Wages will prevent him from moving to a place like that. 

Liverpool don't want to pay him to play for Southampton.


----------



## Havre

Corto said:


> What I don't understand is why West Ham don't go for Sakho instead of Fonte.
> 
> They need an upgrade over Ogbonna to play with Reid, and Fonte just seems like more of the same, only older.




Fonte >> Sakho.

Fonte is in my opinion underrated because he isnÂ´t "spectacular". A bit similar to Alderweireld - even if Alderweireld now is getting the recognition he deserves (and of course Alderweireld has developed into a fantastic passer).

Sakho is physically imposing, but also often a mess in terms of positioning and passing.

That said. Why WH want Fonte now considering FonteÂ´s age..... has to be very cheap at least.


----------



## Jeffrey

Luiginho said:


> Man City will be trying to pursue Danny Rose in the summer. Would be a good buy for them.
> 
> Liverpool rejected a loan offer from Southampton for Sakho. I don't understand what they're doing with him, if Klopp doesn't want him why is he not letting him go?



They want to sell him not loan him.. that seem pretty obvious..


----------



## Jeffrey

Chimaera said:


> Wages will prevent him from moving to a place like that.
> 
> Liverpool don't want to pay him to play for Southampton.




China it is for him then.. I don't see liverpool making any compromise on the wage front.


----------



## S E P H

Deficient Mode said:


> If Arsenal had any good young players that other clubs in their league really wanted, they'd still be a feeder team to United too. One big benefit of buying your two best players when they're already 25+ and cast off from a bigger club. Other bigger clubs just won't bother with players with only a few years left at the top.



I don't know why you keep bringing up Arsenal in our debates. Nothing I said or mentioned has anything to do with the Gunners or fictional scenarios as was your post as retribution against my opinion.

Now, if you want to change the subject and talk about Arsenal I am totally fine with that. However, I just don't get why we always have to compare Dortmund to Arsenal and vice-versa? You want to know my opinion about Arsenal? We suck. We haven't won anything in decade(s), while BVB being a feeder team was able to reach the CL finals. What BVB has been able to accomplish in terms of finding these hidden gems, developing them, and selling for a profit is quite ridiculous that I applaud it. They are the best feeder team in probably the world since they challenge every year for the Bundesliga title and make the CL group stage. There is no Bayern like team in the Portuguese league which is the best feeder league along with Netherlands. I like BVB, I have nothing against them nor want them to lose, but I am also honest in what I personally see.


----------



## cgf

What's the point in calling any club a feeder team when the only teams who are not feeder clubs are teams with **** that no one wants, or Barca/Bayern/Real? The only way Dortmund is more of a feeder club than any other is that they have more pieces bigger teams want.


----------



## Burner Account

everyone is a feeder except for three teams


----------



## S E P H

cgf said:


> What's the point in calling any club a feeder team when the only teams who are not feeder clubs are teams with **** that no one wants, or Barca/Bayern/Real? The only way Dortmund is more of a feeder club than any other is that they have more pieces bigger teams want.




You're lying to yourself if you think teams do not want Sanchez, Oezil, Mustafi, Bellerin, OX, Iwobi, Koscielny, Monreal, and Zelalem. One benefit of Wenger is that he is able to keep them together as Oezil won't sign a new contract until knowing what Wenger's plans are for the future. Fictionally speaking since that's what we're doing here, if Arsenal had a manager like Slaven Bilic (who isn't a bad manager), that isn't well known around Europe, we would absolutely be a feeder club. What we have is a catch 22 in Wenger, as he clearly sucks as a manager in every regard...except he's like Patrick Roy as players love to play for him.

Only player that loves playing for BVB is Reus and the main reason why is because he's in a Matt Duchene scenario where he gets to play for his dream team (of course hometown as well which Duchene doesn't possess).


----------



## Jersey Fresh

You can tell yourself that if you'd like, but that doesn't make it true.

And Slaven Bilic is very much a "player's manager". Still, I can't think of a single manager in the world that would single-handedly keep a player at a club when another with more prestige, money, competitive opportunities, etc., comes knocking.


----------



## Deficient Mode

S E P H said:


> You're lying to yourself if you think teams do not want Sanchez, Oezil, Mustafi, Bellerin, OX, Iwobi, Koscielny, Monreal, and Zelalem. One benefit of Wenger is that he is able to keep them together as Oezil won't sign a new contract until knowing what Wenger's plans are for the future. Fictionally speaking since that's what we're doing here, if Arsenal had a manager like Slaven Bilic (who isn't a bad manager), that isn't well known around Europe, we would absolutely be a feeder club. What we have is a catch 22 in Wenger, as he clearly sucks as a manager in every regard...except he's like Patrick Roy as players love to play for him.
> 
> Only player that loves playing for BVB is Reus and the main reason why is because he's in a Matt Duchene scenario where he gets to play for his dream team (of course hometown as well which Duchene doesn't possess).




Those are good players many of whom would get playing time at a bigger club, mostly as backups. But apart from Ã–zil and Sanchez, none of them are as good as the players whom Dortmund has "fed" to big clubs in recent years, and we're already getting transfer drama about Ã–zil and Sanchez, even though next summer they will both be older than all the players whom Dortmund sold at the time of their sale, i.e. with less top years left. The rest either haven't established themselves as good enough for a bigger club (Iwobi, Ox, Zelalem), are old and not worth a big fee (Monreal, Koscielny), or good but not a can't miss player (Mustafi). We'll see what happens with Bellerin.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

There is a report that Gedion Zelalem is leaving Arsenal to join Gladbach. He would go out on loan for the rest of the season to a Dutch club. I don't know if this is true, but there have been multiple reports that he's leaving Arsenal this transfer window, either on loan or permanently.


----------



## bluesfan94

I would hope Arsenal loans and not sells Zelalem, although I wouldn't hate him being at Gladbach


----------



## VEGASKING

Zelalem is out of contract in the summer. He will sign somewhere he has a chance to play. Should have sold him this summer instead of getting a tiny fee now or nothing in 6 months.


----------



## cgf

BMG would be an interesting landing spot for Zelalem. With Benes, Sow, Ndenge, Kramer, and Dahoud/Dahoud-replacement; there's a lot of potential in that midfield; but there's still good minutes for him to earn.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> BMG would be an interesting landing spot for Zelalem. With Benes, Sow, Ndenge, Kramer, and Dahoud/Dahoud-replacement; there's a lot of potential in that midfield; but there's still good minutes for him to earn.




Gladbach can have one of Dahoud or Zelalem; Dortmund can have the other.


----------



## Evilo

Meanwhile City buys a 13 year old for 290 000€, and UEFA looks the other way...

http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Manchester-city-achete-un-joueur-de-13-ans/770365


----------



## HajdukSplit

Livermore sold to West Brom for nearly 12m. Hull sign Norwegian international Elabdellaoui on loan from Olympiakos (Silva's former club). Surely cover for Elmohammady (sp?) away at the AFCON


----------



## cgf

After having brought Polter back, Quaner has joined Brandy & Quiring in departing Berlin.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> Meanwhile City buys a 13 year old for 290 000â‚¬, and UEFA looks the other way...
> 
> http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Manchester-city-achete-un-joueur-de-13-ans/770365




Are you suggesting they should be punished like Barca were? I'm pretty sure those rules only apply to the transfers of underage international players, not underage domestic players.


----------



## awesomo

Mourinho confirmed there is a buyback clause for Depay


----------



## hatterson

awesomo said:


> Mourinho confirmed there is a buyback clause for Depay




I thought I heard it was something like 35m pounds.


----------



## The Abusement Park

awesomo said:


> Mourinho confirmed there is a buyback clause for Depay




It not technically a buy back clause, because they're not allowed in Ligue 1 if I'm not mistaken (Evilo, may be able to correct me if I'm wrong), but we have the first option to buy at 35 mil is how I understand it.


----------



## Evilo

Deficient Mode said:


> Are you suggesting they should be punished like Barca were? I'm pretty sure those rules only apply to the transfers of underage international players, not underage domestic players.



I suggest no team should be allowed to buy a 13 year old. Foreigners or not.


----------



## Evilo

The Abusement Park said:


> It not technically a buy back clause, because they're not allowed in Ligue 1 if I'm not mistaken (Evilo, may be able to correct me if I'm wrong), but we have the first option to buy at 35 mil is how I understand it.




Yep, so I heard when Real wanted one for Jese.


----------



## Epictetus

> Jose Fonte, the Southampton captain, is to undergo a medical on Friday afternoon ahead of a proposed move to West Ham United, for a fee in the region of Â£8m.



-The Guardian


----------



## cgf

I wonder if it's a Zelalem or Laimer thing for BMG, or if Zelalem is just about pouncing on an opportunity to acquire talent while Laimer is being looked at as a Dahoud-replacement. Either one could fit beautifully in a midfield next to Benes & Kramer/Sow/Ndenge, down the line.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Berahino signed with Stoke.


----------



## Ceremony

Epictetus said:


> -The Guardian




Ahahahahaha

Quality transfer requesting


----------



## Milos Krasic

Stuttgart loan Toni Å unjić to Palermo


----------



## Ceremony

Berahino has a five and a half year contract at Stoke. How many clubs will he have played for by the time it's done?


----------



## HajdukSplit

Jose Fonte to West Ham for 8m, slight overpayment for a 33 year old who is out of contract in 6 months but he is a good defender and a position WHU needed help in. Though for him, he handed in a transfer request to make at best a lateral move in terms of clubs, though maybe his wages are better


----------



## John Pedro

Lille offer for Luiz AraÃºjo is 6M euros. I think it's a crazy good offer for what he's shown. I'd accept it ASAP.


----------



## Evilo

I never doubt Campos tbh.


In other news, PSG and OM are trying to get R. Rodriguez. OM is ready to pay the 22M€ release clause.
They also made a 30M€ offer for Payet.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Swedish tabloid/newspaper Aftonbladet is claiming that Alexander Isak will move to Dortmund and not Real. They mention a fee of 82 million SEK or â‚¬8.6 million. Would be very cool.


----------



## Prntscrn

Yeah good choice by him, even though a part of me want him to fail miserably


----------



## Jussi

Evilo said:


> I suggest no team should be allowed to buy a 13 year old. Foreigners or not.




I don't see a problem/have no issue in a 13 year old basically moving to another junior academy in his own country.


----------



## JimboA

Glory said:


> Yeah good choice by him, even though a part of me want him to fail miserably




Why? DIF fan?


----------



## Evilo

Jussi said:


> I don't see a problem/have no issue in a 13 year old basically moving to another junior academy in his own country.



Yeah me neither. Moving from one youth team to another is not a problem.

Paying 290.000 for it however, is.


----------



## Prntscrn

JimboA said:


> Why? DIF fan?




Yeah


----------



## Shrimper

Evilo said:


> Meanwhile City buys a 13 year old for 290 000â‚¬, and UEFA looks the other way...
> 
> http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Manchester-city-achete-un-joueur-de-13-ans/770365




We're not complaining, paid us way more than they needed to.

We've made a decent buck this year.

Â£1.1m for Bentley, Â£600k for Payne, Â£300k for Isaac Hayden (Sell-on) and Â£175k for Finley Burns.

Nice.


----------



## phisherman

Evilo said:


> Yeah me neither. Moving from one youth team to another is not a problem.
> 
> Paying 290.000 for it however, is.




But won't that help fund the other team's academy? 

There would be a problem if the 13 year old got money along with their agent. (Assuming the kid has an agent which would be another problem if he did).


----------



## Evilo

Of course the kid got money. Or something like "we've found you a job at our club with a flat and car provided".
Here in France, there's a new rule where you can't sign a player who's more than 100 kilometers from your club.


----------



## Blender

Evilo said:


> Of course the kid got money. Or something like "we've found you a job at our club with a flat and car provided".
> Here in France, there's a new rule where you can't sign a player who's more than 100 kilometers from your club.




Ok, but you said that "UEFA looks the other way" like Man City should be punished in some way, when they didn't break any rules. You can argue that those types of moves are bad for the sport or something, but what they did wasn't against the rules.


----------



## phisherman

That France rule seems pretty backwards.

England has, or had, that rule and it really didn't benefit their country's player development.

Offering the kid a place to stay and education wouldn't be too bad. It could be seen as a scholarship. 

As long as they're not exploited like how the NCAA does it.


----------



## Shrimper

Evilo said:


> Of course the kid got money. Or something like "we've found you a job at our club with a flat and car provided".
> Here in France, there's a new rule where you can't sign a player who's more than 100 kilometers from your club.




There used to be a 90 minute rule but they got rid of it because Premier League.


----------



## Savi

Glory said:


> Yeah good choice by him, even though a part of me want him to fail miserably




Doesnt Swedish football need for some of these young prospects to turn out good?


----------



## Evilo

Blender said:


> Ok, but you said that "UEFA looks the other way" like Man City should be punished in some way, when they didn't break any rules. You can argue that those types of moves are bad for the sport or something, but what they did wasn't against the rules.




Didn't mean they broke the rules. I meant they're looking the other way because they don't care, even though they should.
What's the difference between paying for foreign players or domestic ones?


----------



## Evilo

phisherman said:


> That France rule seems pretty backwards.




Given the state of the french academies, I'd say the rules work out pretty well.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> Didn't mean they broke the rules. I meant they're looking the other way because they don't care, even though they should.
> What's the difference between paying for foreign players or domestic ones?




Paying isn't the issue. It's considered child trafficking if you buy foreign u-18 players. I'd rather they pay the kids and the club they got them from than not.


----------



## Evilo

Deficient Mode said:


> Paying isn't the issue. It's considered child trafficking if you buy foreign u-18 players. I'd rather they pay the kids and the club they got them from than not.



Which is ridiculous. It is considered this way if it's foreign player, but not if it's domestic players?
How ridiculous is that?


----------



## phisherman

Evilo said:


> Given the state of the french academies, I'd say the rules work out pretty well.




I'm assuming that rule doesn't apply for any foreign kids being brought into the academy. Meaning a team like PSG can't sign a kid living in France 100 hours away however they can sign a kid from Portugal for example.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> Which is ridiculous. It is considered this way if it's foreign player, but not if it's domestic players?
> How ridiculous is that?




It's not. Kids are more vulnerable to exploitation if they move to a foreign country. I agree with the basic idea of the rule. I wonder if FIFA only instituted it under pressure from non-European federations that want to hold onto their players for longer, though, rather than out of concern for children.


----------



## Blender

Deficient Mode said:


> It's not. Kids are more vulnerable to exploitation if they move to a foreign country. I agree with the basic idea of the rule. I wonder if FIFA only instituted it under pressure from non-European federations that want to hold onto their players for longer, though, rather than out of concern for children.




I would think this is exactly what it is. Too many kids were getting poached for cheap before they could grow in value, so clubs wanted to hold onto them longer so they could sell for more later on.


----------



## bluesfan94

I could be and probably am wrong but didn't those rules not apply to EU citizens?


----------



## Evilo

phisherman said:


> I'm assuming that rule doesn't apply for any foreign kids being brought into the academy. Meaning a team like PSG can't sign a kid living in France 100 hours away however they can sign a kid from Portugal for example.



PSG can't sign a kid from Portugal per UEFA rules.
So... what do you mean?



Deficient Mode said:


> It's not. Kids are more vulnerable to exploitation if they move to a foreign country. I agree with the basic idea of the rule. I wonder if FIFA only instituted it under pressure from non-European federations that want to hold onto their players for longer, though, rather than out of concern for children.




More vulnerable? Exploitation can be done for any kids, regardless of nationality.


----------



## phisherman

Evilo said:


> PSG can't sign a kid from Portugal per UEFA rules.
> So... what do you mean?




Is that a UEFA rule or a France rule? How do other clubs like Barca sign kids?


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> I could be and probably am wrong but didn't those rules not apply to EU citizens?



EU transfers can be done with "strict" rules : not before 16 year old, proof of education given, proof of a home given.


----------



## Evilo

phisherman said:


> Is that a UEFA rule or a France rule? How do other clubs like Barca sign kids?




As I said above, inside the EU, there are "strict" rules and you can't sign players before 16 anyway.


----------



## Evilo

But there are lot of ways teams get around those rules.
Example here in France, pupil of mine signed for a L1 academy which is much further away than 100 kilometers.
Parent magically "moved" to that town and magically "found a job" there.
As a reminder, either by french of UEFA rules, his parents need to find a job that has no link with that football club.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> As I said above, inside the EU, there are "strict" rules and you can't sign players before 16 anyway.




Before 16 that's what it was. Whereas non-EU it's 18?


----------



## Evilo

Yes.


----------



## phisherman

In terms of exploitation we're talking about all those that fail and are dumped without a proper education right? 

I mean if clubs offer a proper education and a very good chance for players that aren't good enough to receive post secondary education this whole player movement argument would be moot right?


----------



## Evilo

No, you should never sign a 13 year old for such money.
It spells trouble for the future of the kid, tons of pressure, and people around him (and his club) with all the bad ideas.


----------



## Ceremony

I personally would love to see what Evilo makes of Celtic and Rangers buying children from all over Scotland.


----------



## Blender

Evilo said:


> More vulnerable? Exploitation can be done for any kids, regardless of nationality.




Yes it can be, but someone who moves to a different country is far more vulnerable to that. They likely won't speak the language, the culture will be different, the club can control their visa/passport, they will be very far from their parents, etc. It's just not the same as a kid moving from one English town/city to another.


----------



## Evilo

Blender said:


> Yes it can be, but someone who moves to a different country is far more vulnerable to that. They likely won't speak the language, the culture will be different, the club can control their visa/passport, they will be very far from their parents, etc. It's just not the same as a kid moving from one English town/city to another.



Of course, because you focus on some african talents who were pretty much slaved after coming to Europe (and France is certainly not a good example of that).
But it can be true inside a country as well.


----------



## Burner Account

Sporting has cancelled Markovic's loan


----------



## Luigi Habs

Why is Schweinsteiger still with MU? Don't tell me he wants to stay and fight for a spot.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Luiginho said:


> Why is Schweinsteiger still with MU? Don't tell me he wants to stay and fight for a spot.




$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


----------



## Vipers31

Luiginho said:


> Why is Schweinsteiger still with MU? Don't tell me he wants to stay and fight for a spot.




He'll know he's not fighting for anything, but he _does _want to stay. He's won it all, and doesn't feel like moving to another smaller club. He's not a journeyman. He was a Bayern man almost through-and-through, and United was the one foreign experience he wanted to have before calling it a day.


----------



## hatterson

Vipers31 said:


> He'll know he's not fighting for anything, but he _does _want to stay. He's won it all, and doesn't feel like moving to another smaller club. He's not a journeyman. He was a Bayern man almost through-and-through, and United was the one foreign experience he wanted to have before calling it a day.




Yea, he's not gonna move to a lower tier team, and he's not good enough anymore to play for a top tier team.


----------



## Blender

Surprised he hasn't moved to China for a boatload of money yet.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Isak to Dortmund is apparently a done deal according to this:


----------



## Jeffrey

Luiginho said:


> Why is Schweinsteiger still with MU? Don't tell me he wants to stay and fight for a spot.



He is basucally already retired but he is getting paid to show up to practise and exercise. For lot of money to boot.


----------



## Corto

Jeffrey said:


> He is basucally already retired but he is getting paid to show up to practise and exercise. For lot of money to boot.




He's got all the titles you can win, all the money you could wish for, and a one of the best looking women in the world as his wife.

I think he'll survive not playing for ManU this season.


----------



## Burner Account

kyle evs48 said:


> Sporting has cancelled Markovic's loan




He will also apparently not be joining Liverpool


----------



## KingLB

Luiginho said:


> Why is Schweinsteiger still with MU? Don't tell me he wants to stay and fight for a spot.






Vipers31 said:


> He'll know he's not fighting for anything, but he _does _want to stay. He's won it all, and doesn't feel like moving to another smaller club. He's not a journeyman. He was a Bayern man almost through-and-through, and United was the one foreign experience he wanted to have before calling it a day.




Supposedly Chicago (the worst team and probably the worst run team in MLS), has inquired about him, but United wants a fee. As if someone taking Swiny of their hands wasn't good enough...


----------



## Deficient Mode

Isak's AIK teammate Dickson Etuhu posted this picture of Isak signing a contract with Dortmund's sporting director to his private instagram:






No official confirmation by either club but that looks pretty god damn confirmed. Very excited and also glad that they bought a potential first choice striker so early before Aubameyang leaves. If he joins in winter and not summer that is...


----------



## Evilo

Meanwhile PSG is close to signing Gonzalo Guedes.
And Barca are trying to sign OM phenom Maxime Lopez.


----------



## Evilo

Also Le Parisien says Payet to OM is pretty much done.


----------



## Burner Account

Pulisic has signed a new contract until 2020


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> Meanwhile PSG is close to signing Gonzalo Guedes.
> And Barca are trying to sign OM phenom Maxime Lopez.




Uhh that'd be too soon for Lopez to leave. Also I wouldn't qualify him as a phenom just yet, he's talented but I'd say his ceiling would be at Ribery level, which is really good, but realistically I see him at a Valbuena level. 

Regarding Isak, is he transferring to Dortmund immediately? He should stay there for one more year on loan IMO. Unless Aubameyang leaves this summer and he gets playing time as soon as next season.


----------



## Evilo

Don't see him as a Valbuena or Ribery comparison since he's totally not a winger. He's a CM,/AMC, in the Iniesta/Thiago/Verratti mold. Small, dynamic on his feet, great passer, great vision.

He's a phenom to me. And as an OM hater, it's even harder to say. But he's been known to be a future great years ago. He just turned 19 and is already a starter at Marseille under pressure to perform. This guy doesn't know what pressure is.


----------



## Evilo

One of my biggest disappointments (and mistakes) in terms of prospects has been Hervin Ongenda.
He's, to me, a special talent. Very quick, small, great vision, his positionning off the ball is one that only greats have.
He broke all sorts of records in youth competitions during all his childhood, even though he played with older players.
For a number of reasons (injuries, lazyness, lack of training, lack of mental toughness), he never turned into the player he could have.
He has just announced he left PSG for good and has signed with Zwolle.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Luiginho said:


> Regarding Isak, is he transferring to Dortmund immediately? He should stay there for one more year on loan IMO. Unless Aubameyang leaves this summer and he gets playing time as soon as next season.




I haven't seen any details but I'm pretty sure he's coming immediately. The current backup striker - Adrian Ramos - has been heavily linked with a move to China. Isak would still get playing time as a backup and be able to adapt to the environment with less pressure as long as Aubameyang is still there.


----------



## Vipers31

kyle evs48 said:


> Pulisic has signed a new contract until 2020




I, for one, am extremely shocked that he did so, in spite of being targeted by Liverpool. Extremely shocked. My shock knows no bounds.


----------



## Burner Account

Vipers31 said:


> I, for one, am extremely shocked that he did so, in spite of being targeted by Liverpool. Extremely shocked. My shock knows no bounds.


----------



## phisherman

Vipers31 said:


> I, for one, am extremely shocked that he did so, in spite of being targeted by Liverpool. Extremely shocked. My shock knows no bounds.




Obviously this was done so Dortmund can get a bigger fee. You know with Liverpool being a bigger club, charismatic German manager who can persuade anyone to join his team, having a top 5 b2b midfielder, having the best academy and being the only title challengers besides Chelsea right now.


----------



## Vipers31

kyle evs48 said:


>



Honestly, it wasn't meant to be a dig at Liverpool, they're certainly my favourites among all EPL clubs, but more at one of their fans who was somewhat vocal about not caring about whether people were predicting this outcome of him staying as long as he kept being labeled a key "target" by whichever local reporter he followed. It was just always a waste of time. 



phisherman said:


> Obviously this was done so Dortmund can get a bigger fee. You know with Liverpool being a bigger club, charismatic German manager who can persuade anyone to join his team, having a top 5 b2b midfielder, having the best academy and being the only title challengers besides Chelsea right now.



Maybe he has secured himself an LFC-outclause, as well, we sure don't positively know the opposite to be true.


----------



## cgf

OT, but I can't help but wonder how many more titles Borussia would have if they played in the EPL over the past decade.


----------



## Burner Account

Vipers31 said:


> Honestly, it wasn't meant to be a dig at Liverpool, they're certainly my favourites among all EPL clubs, but more at one of their fans who was somewhat vocal about not caring about whether people were predicting this outcome of him staying as long as he kept being labeled a key "target" by whichever local reporter he followed. It was just always a waste of time.




It's all good, I know what you meant. Just don't want to be labeled as one of those people.


----------



## Savant

Vipers31 said:


> Honestly, it wasn't meant to be a dig at Liverpool, they're certainly my favourites among all EPL clubs, but more at one of their fans who was somewhat vocal about not caring about whether people were predicting this outcome of him staying as long as he kept being labeled a key "target" by whichever local reporter he followed. It was just always a waste of time.
> 
> 
> Maybe he has secured himself an LFC-outclause, as well, we sure don't positively know the opposite to be true.




Label away. Nothing wrong with relaying what the good writers were reporting. I stand by it. If he stays he stays. If he goes he goes. Not heartbroken either way about the player specifically. I'm securely upset Liverpool didn't try harder to get reinforcements this window, Pulisic or not.

I don't know why I'm villified for posting what actual reporters are stating, while dialogue regarding who are linked in the tabloids is more welcomed.


----------



## oilers92

cgf said:


> OT, but I can't help but wonder how many more titles Borussia would have if they played in the EPL over the past decade.




just like how pep will reinvent the game and run way with it? there's a difference between having a handful of tough games a year and having a tough game every week. Also would love to see how many clubs would handle the Christmas period in England.


----------



## phisherman

oilers92 said:


> just like how pep will reinvent the game and run way with it? there's a difference between having a handful of tough games a year and having a tough game every week. Also would love to see how many clubs would handle the Christmas period in England.




The Christmas period is always ignored by non EPL supporters. They don't realize how big of a factor it is in how it affects the competition.


----------



## oilers92

phisherman said:


> The Christmas period is always ignored by non EPL supporters. They don't realize how big of a factor it is in how it affects the competition.




yep also in the past 10 yrs 6 champions league finals appearances for english clubs vs 4 for german (3 of which were bayern) not as easy a league as certain posters would believe.


----------



## cgf

oilers92 said:


> just like how pep will reinvent the game and run way with it? there's a difference between having a handful of tough games a year and having a tough game every week. Also would love to see how many clubs would handle the Christmas period in England.




Most thought Pep would need this first season to teach his squad how to play his way and fix up the flaws in the roster (read defense)...and with Sane, Jesus & Moreno that attack will win them a lot of matches. And how could there be more tough games in england when there's more tough teams in Germany and Spain?

The christmas period is a drain, but it's made up for by the easier level of opposition.



oilers92 said:


> yep also in the past 10 yrs 6 champions league finals appearances for english clubs vs 4 for german (3 of which were bayern) not as easy a league as certain posters would believe.




Is this where you post about Arsenal's meaningless results against Bayern as they were eliminated nonetheless?


----------



## phisherman

cgf said:


> The christmas period is a drain, but it's made up for by the easier level of opposition.




It's not a huge factor when the players are physically and mentally drained.


----------



## oilers92

cgf said:


> Most thought Pep would need this first season to teach his squad how to play his way and fix up the flaws in the roster (read defense)...and with Sane, Jesus & Moreno that attack will win them a lot of matches. And how could there be more tough games in england when there's more tough teams in Germany and Spain?
> 
> The christmas period is a drain, but it's made up for by the easier level of opposition.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this where you post about Arsenal's meaningless results against Bayern as they were eliminated nonetheless?




what a load of bs, more tough teams in germany... you have 2 teams at 10 or more wins compared to 4 english teams at the same stage(week 17) and have 6 teams yet to get 5 wins vs 4, the bundesliga is weak this year. Even bayern aren't looking as strong as previous years.


----------



## oilers92

cgf said:


> Is this where you post about Arsenal's meaningless results against Bayern as they were eliminated nonetheless?




not an arsenal fan, but how is it the competition that pits the best from each country against each other is meaningless? it shows which league is strongest at each period quite well


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> Most thought Pep would need this first season to teach his squad how to play his way and fix up the flaws in the roster (read defense)...and with Sane, Jesus & Moreno that attack will win them a lot of matches. And how could there be more tough games in england when there's more tough teams in Germany and Spain?
> 
> The christmas period is a drain, but it's made up for by the easier level of opposition.




Oh come on...
Most (me included) thought that Pep, with arguably the best roster in the EPL, would produce. Instead he doesn't, even tough he supposedly "fixed" the defense by signing the most expensive CB ever and then changing goalies at the last moment.

Easier level of opposition in the EPL than in the BL? You can't be serious. There are 5-6 competitive teams in the BL (and we all know what City would do to Schalke or something). Rest is average teams at best, while EPL teams in the bottom half still have loads of internationals (because of money, but still).

I'm the first to mock the EPL overrating on this site, but I'll mock the BL overrating as well and you're clearly way off the board.


----------



## Vipers31

Savant said:


> Label away. Nothing wrong with relaying what the good writers were reporting. I stand by it. (...) I don't know why I'm villified for posting what actual reporters are stating, (...)



It was never about you citing the reporters, it was about your casually dismissing reaction to the responses people gave on here, who apparently more familiar with Dortmund than said good writer. Even the good writers put out some bad stuff somewhat regularly in that business. That was an obvious example from the start. 

And don't be so dramatic. You're hardly being "vilified". You picked that writer's side on that, and the other side proved to be a better call on that one. You can handle hearing about that after the chips fell. 



Savant said:


> (...)while dialogue regarding who are linked in the tabloids is more welcomed.



Nothing about the tabloids is more welcomed. But once they are there, dialogue is indeed how you deal with it.


----------



## cgf

oilers92 said:


> what a load of bs, more tough teams in germany... you have 2 teams at 10 or more wins compared to 4 english teams at the same stage(week 17) and have 6 teams yet to get 5 wins vs 4, the bundesliga is weak this year. Even bayern aren't looking as strong as previous years.




The top teams have less wins because the depth is stronger in the BuLi than the EPL as well. In germany this season you find teams like Gladbach, Wolfsburg, Mainz and Schalke in the lower half of the table; all of whom would be taking points off the big boys in england as well despite their struggles.



oilers92 said:


> not an arsenal fan, but how is it the competition that pits the best from each country against each other is meaningless? it shows which league is strongest at each period quite well




It's meaningless because they were eliminated, they only got results when Bayern already had progress all but secure and so didn't need a result...which is why Arsenal winning by less than X goals was still a win for Bayern, even if Arsenal won the individual leg.


----------



## oilers92

cgf said:


> The top teams have less wins because the depth is stronger in the BuLi than the EPL as well. In germany this season you find teams like Gladbach, Wolfsburg, Mainz and Schalke in the lower half of the table; all of whom would be taking points off the big boys in england as well despite their struggles.




Still doesnt explain how the weaker teams in England have more wins then the ones in Germany, but i see there is no way to convince you that Dortmund woudn't somehow have been the best team in England over the past ten yrs the same ten yrs in which as previously stated England has had more clubs in the *best on best * europe competition make the final then Germany


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Oh come on...
> Most (me included) thought that Pep, with arguably the best roster in the EPL, would produce. Instead he doesn't, even tough he supposedly "fixed" the defense by signing the most expensive CB ever and then changing goalies at the last moment.
> 
> Easier level of opposition in the EPL than in the BL? You can't be serious. There are 5-6 competitive teams in the BL (and we all know what City would do to Schalke or something). Rest is average teams at best, while EPL teams in the bottom half still have loads of internationals (because of money, but still).
> 
> I'm the first to mock the EPL overrating on this site, but I'll mock the BL overrating as well and you're clearly way off the board.




Most certainly did not. D2M did, and I thought that if the backend held up he would, but it hasn't. He hasn't converted Stones into a top end 6 like I thought he would and there's been no stability in the back. If he had secured Laporte instead of Stones he'd probably be topping the table right now.

Who are the 5-6 competitive teams in the BuLi? Bayern, RB, Hoppenheim, Leverkusen, Gladbach, Schalke, Frankfurt, Freiburg, Mainz, Wolfsburg, Koln, Dortmund, or Hertha? All of those teams could take points off any of the top teams in england if they were in our league.


----------



## Edo

There are teams in the Championship that could finish in the middle of the table of the Bundesliga.

What happens when a team other than Munich/Dortmund play in the CL? I would absolutely love it if Arsenal drew Leverkusen, Schalke, or Wolfsburg. It's always a joke of a game. 

And how can you mention Hoffenheim, Frankfurt, Mainz, Koln, Freiburg as competitive? Or anything remotely close to it? They've never been competitive. 

It's the same discussion every time. Also, let's use RB Leipzig as an example. They bought their way into the top of the table in Germany. Something not possible in England. That in itself should be a huge red flag into the competitiveness of the Bundesliga. 

Again, I look at the teams other than Dortmund/Munich's squads. How many players are there that I would want on my team? Or Chelsea/City/United/Spurs/Pool or even West Ham/Everton/Etc fans would want?

You make an argument that Germany develops better talent. But that's a trivial argument as England doesn't allow for the development of younger talent like Germany can offer in the top division. 

Just stop already.


----------



## bluesfan94

cgf said:


> Most certainly did not. D2M did, and I thought that if the backend held up he would, but it hasn't. He hasn't converted Stones into a top end 6 like I thought he would and there's been no stability in the back. If he had secured Laporte instead of Stones he'd probably be topping the table right now.
> 
> *Who are the 5-6 competitive teams in the BuLi? Bayern, RB, Hoppenheim, Leverkusen, Gladbach, Schalke, Frankfurt, Freiburg, Mainz, Wolfsburg, Koln, Dortmund, or Hertha? All of those teams could take points off any of the top teams in england if they were in our league.*




That's not saying much. Pretty much any team can take points from a top team in the EPL, too. Look at what Swansea just did to Liverpool or did to Chelsea. Everton just smashed City. Bournemouth took points from Tottenham and Arsenal.


----------



## cgf

Edo said:


> There are teams in the Championship that could finish in the middle of the table of the Bundesliga.
> 
> What happens when a team other than Munich/Dortmund play in the CL? I would absolutely love it if Arsenal drew Leverkusen, Schalke, or Wolfsburg. It's always a joke of a game.




Let's talk about what happens when a non-Bayern/BVB team plays in the CL: Gladbach should've beaten Barca in the first match this season but then Raffael got injured and the match turned, and they outplayed Juve in both matches last season. Leverkusen has taken Athleti to pens, and bested Tottenham this season. Last time Wolfsburg was in the CL they not only topped United, they beat Real Madrid in the first leg of that matchup before ******** the bed in the second leg. And the last time Schalke played in the CL they were beating Real in the Bernabeau in a spectacular 4-3 win that helped catapult Sane to the acclaim that brought him to Manchester & the NT.



Edo said:


> And how can you mention Hoffenheim, Frankfurt, Mainz, Koln, Freiburg as competitive? Or anything remotely close to it? They've never been competitive.




Those teams I mentioned absolutely would be taking points off of the top teams in either league, they play well; even if they lack the depth/experience to show it in europe. But if some of the english top teams where in the BuLi they'd see it. Hoffenheim have one of the very best coaches in the sport alongside some big young talents (Sule, Amiri, Ochs, Geiger, etc.) and a very sound supporting cast, their top 4 position is very well earned. Freiburg also have an excellent coach with nice emerging young talent that fits their high intensity pressing beautifully. Mainz are a similarly tricksy small team who's inconsistency is apparent, but it doesn't stop them from playing the big teams very well when they're clicking well. Frankfurt are a very tough team to play against who have been bolstered by the arrival of Aymen Barkok (who is a top talent). Ditto Koln, neither team is dynamic in attack, but they are very difficult to play against and would certainly fancy their chances against an Everton/West Ham. Those teams would all be difficult for the english top teams and take plenty of points off of them as well.



Edo said:


> It's the same discussion every time. Also, let's use RB Leipzig as an example. They bought their way into the top of the table in Germany. Something not possible in England. That in itself should be a huge red flag into the competitiveness of the Bundesliga.




Citeh & Chelsea.



Edo said:


> Again, I look at the teams other than Dortmund/Munich's squads. How many players are there that I would want on my team? Or Chelsea/City/United/Spurs/Pool or even West Ham/Everton/Etc fans would want?




You're poor talent evaluation skills tell us nothing about the quality of a league.



Edo said:


> You make an argument that Germany develops better talent. But that's a trivial argument as England doesn't allow for the development of younger talent like Germany can offer in the top division.
> 
> Just stop already.




There are a lot of s*** coaches in the EPL, this is true.


----------



## bluesfan94

Leipzig did it a lot faster than either Citeh or Chelsea though.


----------



## Vipers31

Edo said:


> There are teams in the Championship that could finish in the middle of the table of the Bundesliga.



And there comes Edo for the kill...

... of his own credibility, just a few years late. 



Edo said:


> What happens when a team other than Munich/Dortmund play in the CL? I would absolutely love it if Arsenal drew Leverkusen, Schalke, or Wolfsburg. It's always a joke of a game.



They are usually advancing just as far as Arsenal does. 



Edo said:


> It's the same discussion every time. Also, let's use RB Leipzig as an example. They bought their way into the top of the table in Germany. Something not possible in England.
> 
> That in itself should be a huge red flag into the competitiveness of the Bundesliga.



I... what? Your freaking reigning champion is Leicester City, ffs.  They relied on buying just as much as Leipzig does. And then you have the lots of City and Chelsea who are the epitome of buying into the top level. 



Edo said:


> Again, I look at the teams other than Dortmund/Munich's squads. How many players are there that I would want on my team? Or Chelsea/City/United/Spurs/Pool or even West Ham/Everton/Etc fans would want?



Your ability to evaluate players, let alone squads, has always been suboptimal, so excuse everyone not giving a care.


----------



## cgf

bluesfan94 said:


> Leipzig did it a lot faster than either Citeh or Chelsea though.




Eh...Leipzig started from lower while being able to use their Austrian team to start accumulating the kind of young talent they need now, so their timeline is very different from Citeh or Chelsea. Their youth approach also marks a huge contrast to Citeh/Chelsea's rise, and their scouting success has been tremendous.


----------



## bluesfan94

cgf said:


> Eh...Leipzig started from lower while being able to use their Austrian team to start accumulating the kind of young talent they need now, so their timeline is very different from Citeh or Chelsea. Their youth approach also marks a huge contrast to Citeh/Chelsea's rise, and their scouting success has been tremendous.




I agree with that. It's a different program although Chelsea is trying to mimic it now in a sense with their reliance on Vitesse. RB has been great scouting, that's true.


----------



## East Coast Bias

@cgf

Re a decade........

From 05-10 Dortmund were never higher than 5th in the Bundesliga, and they weren't beating those United/Chelsea teams anyway.

14-15 they were 7th. So that's out too. You can't tell me a team that can't even crack the top 3 in the BL is winning the PL. 

They won a couple in 10-11 and 11-12, so you're basically talking about 3 seasons 12-13, 13-14, and 15-16 with potential extra titles. 

This a highly hypothetical question I understand b/c a ton changes with switching leagues. But I think you're looking at a 2-3 year recent downturn in England and applying that to a decade.


----------



## phisherman

Any team can take points off of the top team on any given day. 

But let's conveniently ignore the Christmas break since it doesn't suit the argument.


----------



## phisherman

East Coast Bias said:


> @cgf
> 
> Re a decade........
> 
> From 05-10 Dortmund were never higher than 5th in the Bundesliga, and they weren't beating those United/Chelsea teams anyway.
> 
> 14-15 they were 7th. So that's out too. You can't tell me a team that can't even crack the top 3 in the BL is winning the PL.
> 
> They won a couple in 10-11 and 11-12, so you're basically talking about 3 seasons 12-13, 13-14, and 15-16 with potential extra titles.
> 
> This a highly hypothetical question I understand b/c a ton changes with switching leagues. But I think you're looking at a 2-3 year recent downturn in England and applying that to a decade.




And before the injury excuses come out for the 2014-15 season imagine if they had to play during Christmas for all those seasons. 

Also in England they play in 2 cup competitions vs the 1 in Germany.

You can't just look at skill vs skill when you make this argument. There's the physical and mental aspect as well.


----------



## Burner Account

cgf said:


> OT, but I can't help but wonder how many more titles Borussia would have if they played in the EPL over the past decade.




Some people just want to watch the world burn


----------



## cgf

kyle evs48 said:


> some people just want to watch the world burn


----------



## S E P H

No one is commenting that BVB is a feeder team as well? All their best players would have been "Chinese-d" by humongous over-payments from Man United, Chelsea, and City if they were in the EPL.

I really like BVB, but they would be the Liverpool (Rodgers-era) or Everton of the EPL instead of being the Arsenal of Bundesliga.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> OT, but I can't help but wonder how many more titles Borussia would have if they played in the EPL over the past decade.




I thought this bait was too obvious. I guess not.

Anyway, a few points regarding things said in this thread:

Bundesliga is better overall this year just by virtue of RB being in it. Bayern and Dortmund aren't as good, but not by nearly as much as the difference between RB and [insert team relegated last year] and a bunch of other teams improving.

IMO Dortmund have been better overall over the best 6 years than any EPL team. EPL teams have also all had their ups and downs in that period. Well, except Arsenal, who haven't had ups OR downs.

RB didn't buy their way to the top like City or Chelsea. City bought Robinho for â‚¬43M shortly after their new ownership came in, announcing to the whole world that they'd badly overpay for mediocre players, a policy that has continued to this day. RB took seven years to get up through all the tiers of German football slowly acquiring and developing talent AND they had the #1 club in Austria to plunder.

It is hard to compare for factors such as fatigue between leagues. 

It is also hard to draw conclusions about the quality of the entire league from how many wins top/bottom teams have. You can always attribute the relative lack/presence of parity either to the good teams being too good/bad, or the bad teams being too good/bad, depending on your bias.


----------



## Deficient Mode

S E P H said:


> No one is commenting that BVB is a feeder team as well? All their best players would have been "Chinese-d" by humongous over-payments from Man United, Chelsea, and City if they were in the EPL.
> 
> I really like BVB, but they would be the Liverpool (Rodgers-era) or Everton of the EPL instead of being the Arsenal of Bundesliga.




Maybe, since we're talking about the hypothetical of what would have happened if they were transposed into the EPL, not how good they are compared to EPL teams. A lot of the other things that allowed them to rise back from financial catastrophe - cheap homegrown talent and a relative abundance of very good coaches - simply aren't there in England.


----------



## hatterson

East Coast Bias said:


> @cgf
> 
> Re a decade........
> 
> From 05-10 Dortmund were never higher than 5th in the Bundesliga, and they weren't beating those United/Chelsea teams anyway.
> 
> 14-15 they were 7th. So that's out too. You can't tell me a team that can't even crack the top 3 in the BL is winning the PL.
> 
> They won a couple in 10-11 and 11-12, so you're basically talking about 3 seasons 12-13, 13-14, and 15-16 with potential extra titles.
> 
> This a highly hypothetical question I understand b/c a ton changes with switching leagues. But I think you're looking at a 2-3 year recent downturn in England and applying that to a decade.




It's also worth noting that in 12-13 United had 89 points and only dropped points in 7 (out of 34) games prior to clinching the title. And 2 of those were in the weeks before when the title was all but mathematically clinched.

That may have been an off year for some of the other top teams, but it certainly wasn't an off year for United in terms of the PL. They wanted to send Ferguson off with a title, and were in control of the league basically the entire year.


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> Most certainly did not. D2M did, and I thought that if the backend held up he would, but it hasn't. He hasn't converted Stones into a top end 6 like I thought he would and there's been no stability in the back. If he had secured Laporte instead of Stones he'd probably be topping the table right now.
> 
> Who are the 5-6 competitive teams in the BuLi? Bayern, RB, Hoppenheim, Leverkusen, Gladbach, Schalke, Frankfurt, Freiburg, Mainz, Wolfsburg, Koln, Dortmund, or Hertha? All of those teams could take points off any of the top teams in england if they were in our league.




Sure, Gladbach took one point out of City.
Got flushed 4-0 in the other game though.


----------



## East Coast Bias

hatterson said:


> It's also worth noting that in 12-13 United had 89 points and only dropped points in 7 (out of 34) games prior to clinching the title. And 2 of those were in the weeks before when the title was all but mathematically clinched.
> 
> That may have been an off year for some of the other top teams, but it certainly wasn't an off year for United in terms of the PL. They wanted to send Ferguson off with a title, and were in control of the league basically the entire year.




Totally agree. That was also the Nani red card year in the CL. Really think United goes through against Madrid if that's a yellow. (I'm sure Real fans will disagree...)


----------



## Savant

Vipers31 said:


> It was never about you citing the reporters, it was about your casually dismissing reaction to the responses people gave on here, who apparently more familiar with Dortmund than said good writer. Even the good writers put out some bad stuff somewhat regularly in that business. That was an obvious example from the start.
> 
> And don't be so dramatic. You're hardly being "vilified". You picked that writer's side on that, and the other side proved to be a better call on that one. You can handle hearing about that after the chips fell.
> 
> Nothing about the tabloids is more welcomed. But once they are there, dialogue is indeed how you deal with it.




That was not my intended tone. I wasn't trying to discredit anyone on hear and I am sorry if people felt that way. My intention was writers over tabloids; saying that it should hold more water than a tabloid because it was from a better source, but again I wasn't trying discredit anyone on here


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Sure, Gladbach took one point out of City.
> Got flushed 4-0 in the other game though.




True, and they also drew Juve twice while outplaying them in both matches, and splitting their matches with Sevilla, before coming an-injury-to-their-best-player away from beating Barca. There's some extreme highs and lows on their CL resume. Like with other german teams, who have matched the achievements of all english clubs but Chelsea and Citeh.


----------



## Burner Account

Deficient Mode said:


> *I thought this bait was too obvious.* I guess not.
> 
> Anyway, a few points regarding things said in this thread:
> 
> Bundesliga is better overall this year just by virtue of RB being in it. Bayern and Dortmund aren't as good, but not by nearly as much as the difference between RB and [insert team relegated last year] and a bunch of other teams improving.
> 
> IMO Dortmund have been better overall over the best 6 years than any EPL team. EPL teams have also all had their ups and downs in that period. Well, except Arsenal, who haven't had ups OR downs.
> 
> RB didn't buy their way to the top like City or Chelsea. City bought Robinho for â‚¬43M shortly after their new ownership came in, announcing to the whole world that they'd badly overpay for mediocre players, a policy that has continued to this day. RB took seven years to get up through all the tiers of German football slowly acquiring and developing talent AND they had the #1 club in Austria to plunder.
> 
> It is hard to compare for factors such as fatigue between leagues.
> 
> It is also hard to draw conclusions about the quality of the entire league from how many wins top/bottom teams have. You can always attribute the relative lack/presence of parity either to the good teams being too good/bad, or the bad teams being too good/bad, depending on your bias.




I almost laughed out loud when I read it. Not because I have an opinion one way or another, but because it was the baitiest bait I've seen in a while.


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> True, and they also drew Juve twice while outplaying them in both matches, and splitting their matches with Sevilla, before coming an-injury-to-their-best-player away from beating Barca. There's some extreme highs and lows on their CL resume. Like with other german teams, who have matched the achievements of all english clubs but Chelsea and Citeh.



Really? Like this year?


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Really? Like this year?




If not for injury they would've beaten Barcelona in the first match and did better against Celtic than Citeh...


----------



## mmk786

cgf said:


> I know we can't expect City fans to know much about any other teams, but you'd think they'd at least have watched their own team's matches with BMG...Oh well, will make it more fun when Gladbach takes *4 of 6 points* off of Pep again.




*UCL 2015-16*

Man City 2
Borussia Gladback 1

Man City 4
Borussia Glabach 2

*UCL 2016-17*

Man City 4 
Borussia Gladbach 0

Man City 1
Gaadbach 1

And neither year did City even coming close to winning the league. Gladbach would be lucky to get a Europa spot in England.


----------



## Havre

How can anyone determine the quality of a league based on what happens WITHIN that league?

So if the bottom teams take points off the top does that mean it is competitive or does it mean that the top teams just arenÂ´t that good?

I love the Bundesliga. Love how it is ran. I will in most cases cheer for the German team when playing an English, but IÂ´m surprised that anyone can argue it is "easier" to play in the PL. I have found myself "defending" the Bundesliga in the past when English fans (typically) argue that the PL is far better than the Bundesliga - I donÂ´t think it is - but I do think it is tougher.

That said. The last couple of years the PL has been a bit of a mess. Almost all the potential top clubs currently in the PL have fairly recently had managers clearly not capable of managing a top club. Also quite a few of the clubs that would have solidified the middle of the pack in the PL like Newcastle, Leeds and Aston Villa are obviously struggling. Clubs that could have attracted much better players from abroad than the current mid table teams like WBA and Bournemouth.

Even so - I think it is still tougher. And except Arsenal who you donÂ´t really know what will happen to after Wenger I believe Utd, City, Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool are now all on the right track with good managers.


----------



## Edo

The Bundesliga is great, no doubt. I was there in Germany this summer and saw how crazy the FC Koln fans are. As a stand alone league, it's amazing. 

But it's not comparable to England in terms of talent. It isn't even debatable. I'm not even sure why the Germans here continue to debate it. It's basically Italy, except for one giant, they have 2. They just don't have the spending power. It is what it is. 

Also, the extra games that the EPL teams play is huge when comparing teams on a continental stage. The English FA doesn't care about how their teams do in Europe. I guess in a way, it's helped grow the league. Having professional footballers play games 48 hours apart is insanity. 

It's Spain, England, Germany/Italy/France with the latter being a 3A, 3B, and 3C. 

Have you Germans seen the squads that City, Arsenal, United, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, and Everton have? They leaps and bounds better than anybody not named Dortmund/Bayern. You can bring up performances in Europe, and you still don't necessarily come out ahead. Domestically, I've seen Schalke/Wolfsburg play a game and could've sworn I was watching Stoke/Sunderland. It just isn't comparable to seeing any of the top teams in England play each other. Mistakes everywhere. 

Money does that. 

As an example, so far into the 2016-2017 season, here are how many games some of the teams in these leagues have played. 

35 games Real Madrid
37 games Arsenal
30 games Bayern Munich
31 games Juventus
35 games PSG

Arsenal have played 7 more games than Bayern Munich in the same time frame. Of course their results in Europe are affected. Injuries pile up, and even the healthy guys aren't fully fit. Hell. I don't know why we're even having this debate.


----------



## Havre

I believe money means more than anything else for the long term competitiveness of a league, but it is hard to argue that the PL has gotten much "bang for it bucks" lately. Not necessarily only because English clubs are "stupid", but because selling clubs understand as soon as a PL club is interested they can get more money for their players.

You got to wonder if PL clubs are looking for the right player(s) or the right name(s) sometimes. Seems like clubs with less money in Germany, Spain and Italy are better at picking the right players. It seems like Spurs at least have learned their lesson. Spent most of the Bale money on #$%"#%. Liverpool then managed to copy Spurs with the Suarez-money (even if they specifically stated they woudnÂ´t do so). Then City comes along with a Spanish set-up and totally misjudges the summer window (on Txiki and not Pep in my opinion). I just donÂ´t get it.

I think the PL is the best league, but I think it should be better than it is. Do believe that is happening with the current top 6 though.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Edo said:


> The Bundesliga is great, no doubt. I was there in Germany this summer and saw how crazy the FC Koln fans are. As a stand alone league, it's amazing.
> 
> But it's not comparable to England in terms of talent. It isn't even debatable. I'm not even sure why the Germans here continue to debate it. It's basically Italy, except for one giant, they have 2. They just don't have the spending power. It is what it is.
> 
> Also, the extra games that the EPL teams play is huge when comparing teams on a continental stage. The English FA doesn't care about how their teams do in Europe. I guess in a way, it's helped grow the league. Having professional footballers play games 48 hours apart is insanity.
> 
> It's Spain, England, Germany/Italy/France with the latter being a 3A, 3B, and 3C.
> 
> Have you Germans seen the squads that City, Arsenal, United, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, and Everton have? They leaps and bounds better than anybody not named Dortmund/Bayern. You can bring up performances in Europe, and you still don't necessarily come out ahead. Domestically, I've seen Schalke/Wolfsburg play a game and could've sworn I was watching Stoke/Sunderland. It just isn't comparable to seeing any of the top teams in England play each other. Mistakes everywhere.
> 
> Money does that.
> 
> As an example, so far into the 2016-2017 season, here are how many games some of the teams in these leagues have played.
> 
> 35 games Real Madrid
> 37 games Arsenal
> 30 games Bayern Munich
> 31 games Juventus
> 35 games PSG
> 
> Arsenal have played 7 more games than Bayern Munich in the same time frame. Of course their results in Europe are affected. Injuries pile up, and even the healthy guys aren't fully fit. Hell. I don't know why we're even having this debate.




Yes, we should dismiss the only point of direct comparison because the EPL clubs have more non-European games. Like when the current 8th placed team in Germany beat and outplaced the current 3rd placed team in England in the same Champions League group just a couple months ago. That was just because the EPL team had played more games (Spurs had played 22 competitive matches by the end of the group stage; Leverkusen had played 21).

No, instead we should just take your word for it that their money makes them a better and that all the inefficiencies in how they spend it are in our heads.

Serie A is a great league, too, btw. Much more fun than the EPL.



Havre said:


> I think the PL is the best league, but I think it should be better than it is. Do believe that is happening with the current top 6 though.




Best overall or just best compared to the Bundesliga?


----------



## Vipers31

Savant said:


> That was not my intended tone. I wasn't trying to discredit anyone on hear and I am sorry if people felt that way. My intention was writers over tabloids; saying that it should hold more water than a tabloid because it was from a better source, but again I wasn't trying discredit anyone on here




Fair enough, I'll obviously accept that. Maybe I also misread your connotation back then. No hard feelings on my end.


----------



## Vipers31

Deficient Mode said:


> Yes, we should dismiss the only point of direct comparison because the EPL clubs have more non-European games. Like when the current 8th placed team in Germany beat and outplaced the current 3rd placed team in England in the same Champions League group just a couple months ago. That was just because the EPL team had played more games (Spurs had played 22 competitive matches by the end of the group stage; Leverkusen had played 21).
> 
> No, instead we should just take your word for it that their money makes them a better and that all the inefficiencies in how they spend it are in our heads.




I would have been going for the same thing, but you did it better.


----------



## Epictetus

kyle evs48 said:


> He will also apparently not be joining Liverpool




He (Markovic) is off to Hull City on a season-long loan.

Edit: just following up on your post.


----------



## Halladay

This is a transfer thread, not which league is better.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Apparently Srna rejected Barca, opting to stay in Ukraine. Hope they bring in a worthwhile backup at RB, albeit Aleix Vidal has improved in recent weeks.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> Apparently Srna rejected Barca, opting to stay in Ukraine. Hope they bring in a worthwhile backup at RB, albeit Aleix Vidal has improved in recent weeks.




Barca should stop ****ing around and buy Bellerin.

Vidal has done better in recent weeks due to actually playing. After his best game Lucho didn't even include him in the next match. 

Summer plans 

1) Buy Bellerin
2) Poch in/Lucho out
3)???
4) Bask in glory


On a side note, I'm quite shocked no one has came for Ascacibar. He's twice the player Kranevitter ever was...playing on a smaller team in Argentina he shouldn't cost no more than 10 million and he's already for Europe.


----------



## Savant

Vipers31 said:


> Fair enough, I'll obviously accept that. Maybe I also misread your connotation back then. No hard feelings on my end.




My war is with lousy tabloids not good posters 

Carry on.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Evilo said:


> Oh come on...
> Most (me included) thought that Pep, with arguably the best roster in the EPL, would produce. Instead he doesn't, even tough he supposedly "fixed" the defense by signing the most expensive CB ever and then changing goalies at the last moment.
> 
> Easier level of opposition in the EPL than in the BL? You can't be serious. There are 5-6 competitive teams in the BL (and we all know what City would do to Schalke or something). Rest is average teams at best, while EPL teams in the bottom half still have loads of internationals (because of money, but still).
> 
> I'm the first to mock the EPL overrating on this site, but I'll mock the BL overrating as well and you're clearly way off the board.




Have to agree with you on this one Evilo


----------



## Vasilevskiy

cgf said:


> Most certainly did not. D2M did, and I thought that if the backend held up he would, but it hasn't. He hasn't converted Stones into a top end 6 like I thought he would and there's been no stability in the back. If he had secured Laporte instead of Stones he'd probably be topping the table right now.
> 
> Who are the 5-6 competitive teams in the BuLi? *Bayern, RB, Hoppenheim, Leverkusen, Gladbach, Schalke, Frankfurt, Freiburg, Mainz, Wolfsburg, Koln, Dortmund, or Hertha? * All of those teams could take points off any of the top teams in england if they were in our league.




Just don't see the point that you're making. Any team in the EPL could take points away from those teams. (except maybe the bottom 4 teams, and still...)
The EPL is stronger than the BL, like it or not, that's what money does.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

cgf said:


> True, and they also drew Juve twice while outplaying them in both matches, and splitting their matches with Sevilla, before coming an-injury-to-their-best-player away from beating Barca. There's some extreme highs and lows on their CL resume. Like with other german teams, who have matched the achievements of all english clubs but Chelsea and Citeh.




I get you love Gladbach, and they were great last year, but they wouldn't have beaten BarÃ§a even if they had Raffael.


----------



## bluesfan94

mmk786 said:


> *UCL 2015-16*
> 
> Man City 2
> Borussia Gladback 1
> 
> Man City 4
> Borussia Glabach 2
> 
> *UCL 2016-17*
> 
> Man City 4
> Borussia Gladbach 0
> 
> Man City 1
> Gaadbach 1
> 
> And neither year did City even coming close to winning the league. Gladbach would be lucky to get a Europa spot in England.




By far my favorite thing about this post is that you spelled Gladbach correct once in the four games. I'm not trying to be an ass, I legitimately found it funny. It's like that meme with the dog rater Twitter and brant.


----------



## bluesfan94

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Barca should stop ****ing around and buy Bellerin.
> 
> Vidal has done better in recent weeks due to actually playing. After his best game Lucho didn't even include him in the next match.
> 
> Summer plans
> 
> 1) Buy Bellerin
> 2) Poch in/Lucho out
> 3)???
> 4) Bask in glory
> 
> 
> On a side note, I'm quite shocked no one has came for Ascacibar. He's twice the player Kranevitter ever was...playing on a smaller team in Argentina he shouldn't cost no more than 10 million and he's already for Europe.




I'll begrudgingly accept 1 assuming we get a premium and only after 2 happens.


----------



## Evilo

Lille is going to sign El-Ghazi and Junior Alonso in the upcoming hours.


----------



## Savi

Looks like Leon Bailey may be on the verge of leaving Genk.

Genk play tonight but Bailey's been withdrawn from the match squad, and there's rumours about him reaching a personal agreement with Leverkusen.


----------



## Evilo

I know Monaco was interested at some point.


----------



## Just Win

Savi said:


> Looks like Leon Bailey may be on the verge of leaving Genk.
> 
> Genk play tonight but Bailey's been withdrawn from the match squad, and there's rumours about him reaching a personal agreement with Leverkusen.




Reading the same in German sources. There is an agreement between the player and Leverkusen but not yet with Genk. They apparently want 20m â‚¬ and i am not sure Leverkusen will do such a big transfer in the winter break. Bailey's step brother Kyle Butler would also be part of the transfer.


----------



## mfilipo3

TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> Apparently Srna rejected Barca, opting to stay in Ukraine. Hope they bring in a worthwhile backup at RB, albeit Aleix Vidal has improved in recent weeks.




To be fair, I don't think Veidal has been given too much of a chance. That being said, I still think his max potential is a quality backup option at a top club like Barcelona.


----------



## mfilipo3

Evilo said:


> Lille is going to sign El-Ghazi and Junior Alonso in the upcoming hours.




Good signing for Lille and El-Ghazi. Not too big a of a jump up for him, but also not a lateral move either. He should get lots of playing time there and continue to develop, I still think he needs to show more consistency.

Evilo, what's your take on Morgan Sanson? Was hoping Milan would've nabbed him a couple years ago before his injury. Seems to have really broken through again this year. Also, I've read links of Milan and Vincent Koziello. Can you tell me about him?


----------



## YNWA14

El Ghazi is a very meh player. Lille might even be above his level tbh.


----------



## Ajacied

Yeah, El Ghazi bursted onto the scene and was highly touted. His progression has stagnated for the past two seasons though, if not going downhill. 

Same goes for Lazio's Kishna. Both are pretty mediocre players with some occasional flashes of brilliance.


----------



## Evilo

mfilipo3 said:


> Good signing for Lille and El-Ghazi. Not too big a of a jump up for him, but also not a lateral move either. He should get lots of playing time there and continue to develop, I still think he needs to show more consistency.
> 
> Evilo, what's your take on Morgan Sanson? Was hoping Milan would've nabbed him a couple years ago before his injury. Seems to have really broken through again this year. Also, I've read links of Milan and Vincent Koziello. Can you tell me about him?




If Campos thinks El-Ghazi has potential to rebound, then I won't ever doubt him.

As for Sanson, as I wrote the last couple of years, I'm very high on him. Great vision, box to box, good passer, high IQ player.
He signed for OM though, so he won't move in the near future.
I like Koziello but I always felt he was a tad overrated. He's still a very good player, quick and intelligent, but he's too easily knocked off the ball.
Favre has used him that much in fact. Puel liked him more last year.


----------



## gary69

Evilo said:


> If Campos thinks El-Ghazi has potential to rebound, then I won't ever doubt him.
> 
> As for Sanson, as I wrote the last couple of years, I'm very high on him. Great vision, box to box, good passer, *high IQ player*.
> He signed for OM though, so he won't move in the near future.
> I like Koziello but I always felt he was a tad overrated. He's still a very good player, quick and intelligent, but he's too easily knocked off the ball.
> Favre has used him that much in fact. Puel liked him more last year.




Wasn't it his mistake in the midfield that lead to one of the Lyon goals last weekend? 

Not sure what he was trying to accomplish there, but it wasn't a great tackle or anything. Of course I haven't watched him much and it's one isolated instance in a new club (so maybe he was over-eager) but nevertheless it wasn't an impressive performance.


----------



## YNWA14

Apparently Liverpool have been sniffing around Henry Onyekuru. That would be a great signing IMO, still young enough to accept a bench/minor role on the team but good enough to deputize for ManÃ©. Plenty of pace, directness and a nose for net as well.

I know the chances of buying anyone this window are slim to none (maybe his hand will be forced if we put up another stinker or two) but yeah. Would love to snap up Onyekuru regardless before his profile gets too big.


----------



## Savi

Curtinho said:


> Apparently Liverpool have been sniffing around Henry Onyekuru. That would be a great signing IMO




Have you actually seen a game of him? He's nowhere near ready for Liverpool.


----------



## cgf

Savi said:


> Looks like Leon Bailey may be on the verge of leaving Genk.
> 
> Genk play tonight but Bailey's been withdrawn from the match squad, and there's rumours about him reaching a personal agreement with Leverkusen.




Would make a lot of sense if this is the summer Brandt leaves Bayer for Bayern...shame BMG was unable to convince him to move to them before he broke out and his fee sky-rocketed...as he's one of the many kids Eberl has spent time visiting/recruiting.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Rumor has it that Erik Lamela is unsettled in London. Wants back to Rome.


----------



## Evilo

gary69 said:


> Wasn't it his mistake in the midfield that lead to one of the Lyon goals last weekend?
> 
> Not sure what he was trying to accomplish there, but it wasn't a great tackle or anything. Of course I haven't watched him much and it's one isolated instance in a new club (so maybe he was over-eager) but nevertheless it wasn't an impressive performance.



Yes, he tackled the ball in midfield, only to assist Lacazette.
Indeed, it wasn't his best game, but frankly, he had a total of 0 training session with his team before the game, and had an average game overall. He also assisted on OM's goal.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

TopKex said:


> Rumor has it that Erik Lamela is unsettled in London. Wants back to Rome.




2 things happened here, he's angry at the medical team or Roma with Spurs approval unsettled Coco. Either way stupid on Tottenhams part.


----------



## Havre

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> 2 things happened here, he's angry at the medical team or Roma with Spurs approval unsettled Coco. Either way stupid on Tottenhams part.




Or it might just be a rumour?

1. Angry at the medical team doesnÂ´t make much sense as he has as far as I know been assessed by experts in South America, Italy and England.

2. Why would Spurs want Roma to unsettle Lamela? The only place he would go would be Roma? So Spurs would, assuming they are selling, be willing to sacrifice a potential bidding war just to get rid of him?

DoesnÂ´t add up to me.

It is a curious case though. CanÂ´t ever remember someone being out for so long without any more concrete information about what is happening.


----------



## Burner Account

It looks like Coutinho is set to sign a new deal until 2022 with no release clause


----------



## YNWA14

Savi said:


> Have you actually seen a game of him? He's nowhere near ready for Liverpool.




I've watched him a bunch, yeah, and he's just as ready as say Leon Bailey is. Not as a starter, obviously, but he could provide some nice cover and has a ton of potential. Saying he's nowhere near ready is a bit of a stretch. He's very good.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evra could join Marseille

Believe it or not but he would be an improvement for them at LB


----------



## Evilo

They don't have a LB, so yeah.


----------



## Evilo

PSG has signed Gonzalo Guedes.

Good signing.


----------



## Savi

Curtinho said:


> I've watched him a bunch, yeah, and he's just as ready as say Leon Bailey is.




No, I'm sorry but that's just not true. Bailey has been a dominant player, both in the league and in the EL, for one of Belgium's top teams. Onyekuru has shown flashes of brilliance for a mediocre club, but in some games he's invisible or only stands out for making bad decisions. He would be better off playing for a top team in Belgium/Holland/.. next season and become a better all round player.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Deficient Mode said:


> Isak's AIK teammate Dickson Etuhu posted this picture of Isak signing a contract with Dortmund's sporting director to his private instagram:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No official confirmation by either club but that looks pretty god damn confirmed. Very excited and also glad that they bought a potential first choice striker so early before Aubameyang leaves. If he joins in winter and not summer that is...




According to sources Tuchel didn't even know Watzke and Zorc were acquiring the player. Tuchel was learning it by reading the sports section of the local paper.

http://www.focus.de/sport/videos/bvb-tuchel-wusste-angeblich-nichts-vom-isak-deal_id_6544522.html


----------



## Theon

Hull just accepted a bid for Snodgrass so maybe there is some movement with them and Bailey.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Havre said:


> Or it might just be a rumour?
> 
> 1. Angry at the medical team doesnÂ´t make much sense as he has as far as I know been assessed by experts in South America, Italy and England.
> 
> 2. Why would Spurs want Roma to unsettle Lamela? The only place he would go would be Roma? So Spurs would, assuming they are selling, be willing to sacrifice a potential bidding war just to get rid of him?
> 
> DoesnÂ´t add up to me.
> 
> It is a curious case though. CanÂ´t ever remember someone being out for so long without any more concrete information about what is happening.




We're under the assumption the rumour is real. 

1. He left those places because he got fed up with the medical team at Tottenham. 

2. Spurs let him go to Roma and allowed him to get evaluated by that medical team. So, they facilitated in him being unsettled.


----------



## Havre

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> We're under the assumption the rumour is real.
> 
> 1. He left those places because he got fed up with the medical team at Tottenham.
> 
> 2. Spurs let him go to Roma and allowed him to get evaluated by that medical team. So, they facilitated in him being unsettled.




1. Would never be his decision to make.

2. Because they got a good medical staff that know the player.

IMO a much more likely explanation is Spurs being flexible to accommodate for some of Lamela's wishes. The same way a Finnish player with a complicated injury might have wanted to spend some of the recovery period in Finland etc.

Pochettino has a history of being very open and honest about players that might leave. Of course I can't know for sure, but why would it be different for Lamela?


----------



## Evilo

Evra has agreed on an 18 month contract with OM.

As if I couldn't hate OM more... 

I like Garcia, I like Maxime Lopez, I like Morgan Sanson. Rest is either indifferent (Gomis, Cabella, PelÃ©) or hated.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> Evra has agreed on an 18 month contract with OM.
> 
> As if I couldn't hate OM more...
> 
> I like Garcia, I like Maxime Lopez, I like Morgan Sanson. Rest is either indifferent (Gomis, Cabella, PelÃ©) or hated.




You love Thauvin


----------



## Evilo

Haha, I do love the talent and what's he's said lately (we're not a top 4 team, we have to be conscient of it, as long as we can't defend especially).

But his choices in his early career are the epitome of dumb.


----------



## Bon Esprit

A few transactions from the Bundesliga:

Ben-Hatira (Darmstadt 98) terminates his contract, well, for personal reasons.

Halilovic (HSV) to Las Palmas (on loan) until season's end

Daniel Caligiuri (Wolfsburg) to Schalke (2,5m + extras)

Donkor (Wolfsburg) to Everton u23 (on loan)


----------



## Deficient Mode

Bon Esprit said:


> A few transactions from the Bundesliga:
> 
> Ben-Hatira (Darmstadt 98) terminates his contract, well, for personal reasons.
> 
> *Halilovic (HSV) to Las Palmas (on loan) until season's end*
> 
> Daniel Caligiuri (Wolfsburg) to Schalke (2,5m + extras)
> 
> Donkor (Wolfsburg) to Everton u23 (on loan)




Beautiful move.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Apparently Las Palmas has a 4-5M buy option, interesting since Barca has a 10M option as well. I guess it will cancel Barca's if Las Palmas activates it in the summer. 

Great move for him though

Robert Fernandez (Barca director) confirms Aleix Vidal won't be moved.


----------



## Moncherry

Evilo said:


> PSG has signed Gonzalo Guedes.
> 
> Good signing.




Is there a chance he gets playing time or is he be going to ride the bench for the time being? Don't want another premature, big money move to stagnate a young Portuguese talent's progress again.


----------



## Evilo

Moncherry said:


> Is there a chance he gets playing time or is he be going to ride the bench for the time being? Don't want another premature, big money move to stagnate a young Portuguese talent's progress again.



No idea with Emery.
The guy rarely changes his starting XI.
We've seen plenty of players being benched without ever being given a proper chance : Ben Arfa, Ikone, Augustin, Krychowiak, etc...
Even guys like Rabiot aren't used like they should be.
Meanwhile, Lucas, Di Maria (until recently) and Motta are immune of any benching time.


----------



## Jeffrey

Evilo said:


> Evra has agreed on an 18 month contract with OM.
> 
> As if I couldn't hate OM more...
> 
> I like Garcia, I like Maxime Lopez, I like Morgan Sanson. Rest is either indifferent (Gomis, Cabella, PelÃ©) or hated.



Which beg to the question.

What is your all time best/favourite OM roster?


----------



## HajdukSplit

Birkir Bjarnason, scorer of Iceland's first every goal at a major tournament, joins Aston Villa from Basel


----------



## Evilo

Jeffrey said:


> Which beg to the question.
> 
> What is your all time best/favourite OM roster?



I loved the 93 roster... until the scandal.
Since then I hate OM. Even when they had Blanc (which is a defenseman I always loved) and went to that european final, I still hated them.

But I still pull for them in the european cups.


----------



## Milos Krasic




----------



## Milos Krasic

Viktor Claesson signed for Krasnodar


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Havre said:


> 1.* Would never be his decision to make.*
> 
> 2. Because they got a good medical staff that know the player.
> 
> IMO a much more likely explanation is Spurs being flexible to accommodate for some of Lamela's wishes. The same way a Finnish player with a complicated injury might have wanted to spend some of the recovery period in Finland etc.
> 
> Pochettino has a history of being very open and honest about players that might leave. Of course I can't know for sure, but why would it be different for Lamela?




1. He definitely had a part to play...probably the one that suggested it.

2. And the team/medical staff that he's been on for the past 4 years doesn't know him? Either way this looks horribly bad on Spurs' part and him being unsettled does not surprise me at all.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Milos Krasic said:


>





Waste of money.


----------



## Havre

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> 1. He definitely had a part to play...probably the one that suggested it.
> 
> 2. And the team/medical staff that he's been on for the past 4 years doesn't know him? Either way this looks horribly bad on Spurs' part and him being unsettled does not surprise me at all.




1. Definitely? Based on what?

2. What about the rest of my reasoning? If Spurs wanted to sell there would be enough buyers around. No reason for a selling club to limited the number of potential buyers to one. I mean if Spurs are that cunning they probably also would be slightly more clever about it.


----------



## Havre

So Hull goes into the season with 13 players (or so). Then they spend January selling two of their better players?

Interesting.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Havre said:


> 1*. Definitely? Based on what?
> *
> 2. What about the rest of my reasoning? If Spurs wanted to sell there would be enough buyers around. No reason for a selling club to limited the number of potential buyers to one. I mean if Spurs are that cunning they probably also would be slightly more clever about it.




Why would a self-respecting team suggest he go back to his old team to fix his problem? 

I don't think they only want to sell him there (or at all) actually but they have facilitated it due to their incompetence.


----------



## StatesideSensFan

Donkor' loan to Everton has a 1.5 million pound buy option.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Neven Subotic (Dortmund) to 1. FC KÃ¶ln (medical today). No fee announced, yet.

http://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/1-fc-koeln/holt-subotic-49964458.bild.html

I always liked the player, but he regressed in the last years. Definately makes Cologne better.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Rumour:

Arturo Vidal to Chelsea for 65m Euros (summer).

http://www.focus.de/sport/videos/fc...r-von-arturo-vidal-zu-chelsea_id_6547954.html


----------



## Deficient Mode

Dortmund officially announced that Adrian Ramos will join Granada on loan for the rest of this season, then transfer Chongqing in the summer.



Bon Esprit said:


> Neven Subotic (Dortmund) to 1. FC KÃ¶ln (medical today). No fee announced, yet.
> 
> http://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/1-fc-koeln/holt-subotic-49964458.bild.html
> 
> I always liked the player, but he regressed in the last years. Definately makes Cologne better.




Good move for him and KÃ¶ln.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bon Esprit said:


> Neven Subotic (Dortmund) to 1. FC KÃ¶ln (medical today). No fee announced, yet.
> 
> http://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/1-fc-koeln/holt-subotic-49964458.bild.html
> 
> I always liked the player, but he regressed in the last years. Definately makes Cologne better.




update: According to kicker it will be until this season's end on loan.


----------



## HajdukSplit

Palace set to sign Serbian international DM Luka Milivojevic from Olympiakos for a free of about 15m

Saw that Jese could be joining Middlesbrough on loan, not doing well at PSG and I think was at Real Madrid when Karanka was assistant coach so there is a connection there

Branislav Ivanovic could be heading back to Russia, this time with Zenit


----------



## John Pedro

Jorge, 20, Flamengo's left back, has been sold to Monaco. Monaco adds another promising player. No word about the fee yet, but if I had to guess it's something between 6 to 9M euros.

Edit: According to some sources: 20M euros fee.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Savi said:


> Looks like Leon Bailey may be on the verge of leaving Genk.
> 
> Genk play tonight but Bailey's been withdrawn from the match squad, and there's rumours about him reaching a personal agreement with Leverkusen.




kicker reports it isn't done yet, because some other clubs are interested, too. Mentioned are Hull, Napoli and Roma.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Goncalo Guedes (Benfica) to PSG for 30m â‚¬ until 2021.


----------



## ecemleafs

Chelsea apparently want Celtic's Craig Gordon to be a back up for them. Celtic have told them to **** off.


----------



## Just Win

Bailey to Leverkusen seems to be done. Medical check is tomorrow.


----------



## Savi

Yeah, Belgian media are reporting both teams have agreed to a deal

Huge loss for Genk, who are still in the Europa League.


----------



## Savant

Just Win said:


> Bailey to Leverkusen seems to be done. Medical check is tomorrow.




This is the part where Liverpool puts in a blank check for Brandt to save the season....right....?


----------



## YNWA14

Not sure why they wouldn't have been in just as hard on Bailey.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Milan loan M'Baye Niang to Watford

Palermo loan Oscar Hiljemark to Genoa


----------



## Milos Krasic

Las Palmas loan Sergio Araujo to AEK Athens


----------



## Havre

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Why would a self-respecting team suggest he go back to his old team to fix his problem?
> 
> I don't think they only want to sell him there (or at all) actually but they have facilitated it due to their incompetence.




Yeah. Spurs under Levy have a reputation for being incompetent when selling players......


----------



## cgf

Savant said:


> This is the part where Liverpool puts in a blank check for Brandt to save the season....right....?




That's not how you spell "watch him Brandt go to Bayern this summer".


----------



## Evilo

John Pedro said:


> Jorge, 20, Flamengo's left back, has been sold to Monaco. Monaco adds another promising player. No word about the fee yet, but if I had to guess it's something between 6 to 9M euros.
> 
> Edit: According to some sources: 20M euros fee.




L'Equipe says 8.5Mâ‚¬ (bonuses included) fee for 70% of his rights.
http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Flamengo-confirme-le-depart-de-jorge-a-monaco/772591


----------



## John Pedro

Evilo said:


> L'Equipe says 8.5Mâ‚¬ (bonuses included) fee for 70% of his rights.
> http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Flamengo-confirme-le-depart-de-jorge-a-monaco/772591




yeah, that's sounds right. 20m is way too much for a defender. Great deal for Monaco... Jorge is amazing, he was the best LB in the league last season as a 19y old. So skilled offensively, a good crosser and has a very hard/accurate shot. Although, he needs to work on his defensive game.

I wonder if that means that Mendy will be sold to United this window.


----------



## Evilo

I don't believe Mendy is sold anytime soon.
But they don't really have a cover at LB. If needed, they play SidibÃ© there (who can play both sides with equal talent) and then they put TraorÃ© at RB (who really is great cover).
But if two are out, they're forced to play a guy like Raggi at fullback.
So all in all, with TraorÃ© and SidibÃ© on the right and only Mendy on the left, they needed an offensive LB to cover for an injury or too.


----------



## Savant

Curtinho said:


> Not sure why they wouldn't have been in just as hard on Bailey.




Because they weren't interested. Also maybe they want someone with perigee of playing in a bigger league. But I don't know what they are thinking.


----------



## Savant

cgf said:


> That's not how you spell "watch him Brandt go to Bayern this summer".




D'oh


----------



## Evilo

Also Monaco is really not looking to sell right now. They believe they can beat anyone this year (and rightfully so) and turned down a moutain of money from China for Falcao.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> Also Monaco is really not looking to sell right now. They believe they can beat anyone this year (and rightfully so) and turned down a moutain of money from China for Falcao.




Their owner doesn't really need the money. If Monaco can keep their young core for a couple more years and both Mbappe and Lemar continue their rapid progress, I could see them challenge for the CL.


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Because they weren't interested. Also maybe they want someone with perigee of playing in a bigger league. But I don't know what they are thinking.




Well obviously, but that's what I meant. Why wouldn't they have been interested in Bailey? So many questions about the squad building, but if Klopp has a specific vision of how he wants to build his team and exactly who fits then so be it. Let him do his thing and see how it goes.


----------



## Savant

Curtinho said:


> Well obviously, but that's what I meant. Why wouldn't they have been interested in Bailey? So many questions about the squad building, but if Klopp has a specific vision of how he wants to build his team and exactly who fits then so be it. Let him do his thing and see how it goes.




It is impossible to say why they would not have been interested. 

Klopp is going to do his thing Edwards will support him and maybe sprinkle in some ideas, but it's obvious that there was a small list of targets and Bailey was not on it.


----------



## mfilipo3

Evilo said:


> I don't believe Mendy is sold anytime soon.
> But they don't really have a cover at LB. If needed, they play SidibÃ© there (who can play both sides with equal talent) and then they put TraorÃ© at RB (who really is great cover).
> But if two are out, they're forced to play a guy like Raggi at fullback.
> So all in all, with TraorÃ© and SidibÃ© on the right and only Mendy on the left, they needed an offensive LB to cover for an injury or too.




I really like the squad Monaco is assembling. Fabinho can also fill in at RB, although I believe he is better suited for a central midfield role. I think he can become one of the top players in the world at the DM position.


----------



## Evilo

Yeah Fabinho's fantastic.

Let's laugh at Curtinho with his bench comparison in the draft thread


----------



## Jeffrey

Monaco is bulding a powerhouse. Now they need to keep their players.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Luiginho said:


> Their owner doesn't really need the money. If Monaco can keep their young core for a couple more years and both Mbappe and Lemar continue their rapid progress, I could see them challenge for the CL.




Wouldn't it be wonderful if Monaco pulled an Ajax'95 (95? 94? One of those years) and won the CL with a youth core?


----------



## davemess

Robert Snodgrass to West Ham appears to be complete.


----------



## Savant

davemess said:


> Robert Snodgrass to West Ham appears to be complete.




Payet replacement


----------



## Havre

Savant said:


> Payet replacement




How sad is that.

Often a transfer makes sense for both parties. Almost always it definitely makes sense for one of the teams while the other kind of just have to accept losing that player (or they are over the moon being able to sell him). This is one of the rare cases where I donÂ´t see the point for either club.

Sure he plugs a hole for WH, but he is hardly necessary for them to save them for relegation and he wonÂ´t be the kind of player that helps them push for something more. Never likely, but WH with some luck could occasionally maybe challenge for top 4 (with 90% of the "luck" Leicester had). Buying players like Snodgrass means you wonÂ´t find the next Mahrez etc.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Havre said:


> How sad is that.
> 
> Often a transfer makes sense for both parties. Almost always it definitely makes sense for one of the teams while the other kind of just have to accept losing that player (or they are over the moon being able to sell him). This is one of the rare cases where I donÂ´t see the point for either club.
> 
> Sure he plugs a hole for WH, but he is hardly necessary for them to save them for relegation and he wonÂ´t be the kind of player that helps them push for something more. Never likely, but WH with some luck could occasionally maybe challenge for top 4 (with 90% of the "luck" Leicester had). Buying players like Snodgrass means you wonÂ´t find the next Mahrez etc.




I agree with you. If they dip into the market in the summer, Snodgrass could be a good depth player, but mostly a needless purchase at a price that is hardly peanuts. 

With add-ons, he cost nearly as much as Payet...


----------



## Evilo

Grenier loaned to Roma.
Hopefully he stays healthy.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Eduardo Vargas to Tigres


----------



## Corto

Havre said:


> How sad is that.
> 
> Often a transfer makes sense for both parties. Almost always it definitely makes sense for one of the teams while the other kind of just have to accept losing that player (or they are over the moon being able to sell him). This is one of the rare cases where I donÂ´t see the point for either club.
> 
> Sure he plugs a hole for WH, but he is hardly necessary for them to save them for relegation and he wonÂ´t be the kind of player that helps them push for something more. Never likely, but WH with some luck could occasionally maybe challenge for top 4 (with 90% of the "luck" Leicester had). Buying players like Snodgrass means you wonÂ´t find the next Mahrez etc.




They are down to 4 AM players (Lanzini, Ayew, Feghouli, Antonio).
There's a good chance that Antonio will be used up front with Carroll in a modified 4-4-2, so having cover for each position makes sense - especially if you consider the injury problems Lanzini, Ayew, Feghouli and Carroll have had this year.

For a January signing, it's pretty good. Not a world beater, but adds a good squad player into the rotation.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Handful of EPL teams after Paredes. Including Arsenal/Liverpool. Also read Juve are interested in him.


----------



## Savant

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Handful of EPL teams after Paredes. Including Arsenal/Liverpool. Also read Juve are interested in him.




Don't think Liverpool are in on him.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Handful of EPL teams after Paredes. Including Arsenal/Liverpool. Also read Juve are interested in him.




Why is he linked to all the wrong EPL clubs. City would make by far the most sense for him, and they need him the most...


----------



## Havre

Corto said:


> They are down to 4 AM players (Lanzini, Ayew, Feghouli, Antonio).
> There's a good chance that Antonio will be used up front with Carroll in a modified 4-4-2, so having cover for each position makes sense - especially if you consider the injury problems Lanzini, Ayew, Feghouli and Carroll have had this year.
> 
> For a January signing, it's pretty good. Not a world beater, but adds a good squad player into the rotation.




As I said it clearly plugs a hole, but there are so many other ways of doing it.

A recent example is Carroll at Swansea. Not directly comparable to Snodgrass, but in terms of type of player that is what WH should have gone for. Someone with some potential for the future.

Snodgrass might be someone that helps them move from 9th to 8th the next couple of years, but certainly not someone that will make WH relevant for anything more than at best a challenge for 7th. A type of player that makes much more sense for a team desperately trying to survive. Sunderland sure - WH donÂ´t get it.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Bojan loaned to Mainz for the rest of the season


----------



## Deficient Mode

Guess this is nearing an end:



Â£25m apparently


----------



## Evilo

32M€ is what I heard.


----------



## Evilo

Alessandrini is close to LA Galaxy.


----------



## Evilo

OM also trying hard to dump Rekik. Anderlecht and PSV might be interested.


----------



## Evilo

Official price for Payet is 25MÂ£ or 30M€.

Other transfer news :
- Bordeaux are close to Roux (St Etienne) and Sankhare (Lille).
- OM, Lille and some german teams are after young columbian striker Preciado.
- Sertic (Bordeaux) could sign with OM today. Garcia sees him as a potential CB (even though he's a CM).
- Nice are trying to scout the goalie market. If they qualify for the CL, they'll try to get Ruffier.
- Kolasinac (Schalke) is well liked by Juventus and Chelsea.
- PSG and Boro have an agreement on a Jese loan, but the player wants Las Palmas or nothing. Player should get his wish today.
- Krychowiak isn't even in the 18 for today's game against Monaco. Rumors is that he feels insulted and wants to leave (no kidding?).
- Juventus is interested in Pastore. PSG love him, but the guy's never healthy. A decent fee should do the trick.


----------



## HajdukSplit

Ex-Schalke winger Jefferson Farfan signs for Lokomotiv Moscow


----------



## Luigi Habs

For a guy who was sold for less than half the price 2 years ago and didn't want to play for WH anymore, I feel OM overpaid.


----------



## Evilo

Yes I agree. He's 29, and he'll never be a superstar. A hot n'cold guy for that price... meh...
But he's got star power and OM needs that.

But they need two CB and a 6 more than anything.


----------



## Havre

Luiginho said:


> For a guy who was sold for less than half the price 2 years ago and didn't want to play for WH anymore, I feel OM overpaid.




Most certainly did.

Classic story. New owner. Bring in a "big" name. Not like Marseille could have bought "Robinho" so Payet will do.

DonÂ´t get the logic myself, but hey...


----------



## Power Man

Ghoulam very likely to leave Napoli this summer 

He would go to Bayern if and only if Bernat leaves


----------



## John Pedro

Wallace (GrÃªmio and Brazil u23) to HSV confirmed. 10M fee.


----------



## Savi

Valencia will loan Mathew Ryan to Genk for the remainder of the season.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Lazio interested in signing Alessio Cerci


----------



## les Habs

As has been noted, looks a bit much for Payet at this stage. 

Vidal to Chelsea would be a nice move for them, but way too much with that fee.



Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Summer plans
> 
> 1) Buy Bellerin
> 2) Poch in/Lucho out
> 3)???
> 4) Bask in glory
> .




Never Poch. With the current board I wouldn't rule it out, but with a good board it'd never happen and hopefully it never does.

3) should be dumping all the dead wood and buying a top drawer CM.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Milos Krasic said:


> Lazio interested in signing Alessio Cerci










I'd be interested in here too.



les Habs said:


> *Never Poch. With the current board I wouldn't rule it out, but with a good board it'd never happen and hopefully it never does.*
> 
> 3) should be dumping all the dead wood and buying a top drawer CM.




Why? he's a class coach. He would be the best one barca would have since Pep. 

Dead wood would be Lucho and the Valencia boys he bought.


----------



## Power Man

Damn forgot they acquired Gomes and what's his name striker


----------



## Savant

Pochettino has said he won't take the Barca job because of his ties to Espanyol. Madrid on the other hand....


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Power Man said:


> Damn forgot they acquired Gomes and what's his name striker




Better than Dybala.



Savant said:


> Pochettino has said he won't take the Barca job because of his ties to Espanyol. Madrid on the other hand....




We'll see.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Better than Dybala.
> 
> 
> 
> We'll see.




Are any big clubs tracking Driussi yet? His stats are very impressive.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Are any big clubs tracking Driussi yet? His stats are very impressive.




Tottenham were. Not sure about many else.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Are any big clubs tracking Driussi yet? His stats are very impressive.




As topkex said Spurs have been rumoured to be in on him(as well as others) but nothing substantial yet.

I'm guessing but teams could be waiting to see how he does in the 2nd half of the league. To make sure, the 1st half wasn't a flash in the pan. A summer move is on the cards.


----------



## John Pedro

Gerson (Roma) will be loaned to Lille till the end of the season.


----------



## Evilo

John Pedro said:


> Gerson (Roma) will be loaned to Lille till the end of the season.



Hopefully with a buying option. Campos


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> Hopefully with a buying option. Campos




I'm thinking they did this to clear up the midfield until Paredes gets sold. Once the loan expires summer hits and Roma cash in on Paredes?


----------



## John Pedro

Evilo said:


> Hopefully with a buying option. Campos




According to Gianluca di Marzio's reports, Lille will pay 5M for the loan with a buying option of 13M euros.


----------



## Evilo

13M€ option seems fair. Either he booms at Lille and they pony up the money, or he busts and then no problem.


----------



## bleedblue1223

According to Matt Law, Chelsea are in talks to sign Kolasinac after Ivanovic is moving to Zenit.

Would be a solid addition to improve wing-back depth and won't cost much with his contract expiring.


----------



## Evilo

bleedblue1223 said:


> According to Matt Law, Chelsea are in talks to sign Kolasinac after Ivanovic is moving to Zenit.
> 
> Would be a solid addition to improve wing-back depth and won't cost much with his contract expiring.



I wrote about it like two or three days ago


----------



## bleedblue1223

Evilo said:


> I wrote about it like two or three days ago




Well, I wasn't on, so that makes sense. Looks like him going to Chelsea is gaining more traction than to Juve, so in my defense, that's at least an update to previous reports


----------



## spintheblackcircle

So a question for all of you that follow multiple leagues:

How do you do it?

I assume most of you follow the NHL and/or other sports closely. I follow the NHL and NFL/NCAA football REALLY closely. Ten years ago I picked up the EPL and my knowledge of that league grows every year. But I still occasionally will blank out as far who plays for whom, but I have a good grasp of it I think.

But how do you follow England, France, Italy, Germany and Spain....and really KNOW about the 11 starters on 100 clubs plus reserves and youth squads?


----------



## bleedblue1223

spintheblackcircle said:


> So a question for all of you that follow multiple leagues:
> 
> How do you do it?
> 
> I assume most of you follow the NHL and/or other sports closely. I follow the NHL and NFL/NCAA football REALLY closely. Ten years ago I picked up the EPL and my knowledge of that league grows every year. But I still occasionally will blank out as far who plays for whom, but I have a good grasp of it I think.
> 
> But how do you follow England, France, Italy, Germany and Spain....and really KNOW about the 11 starters on 100 clubs plus reserves and youth squads?




When I did it, I was in college and wasn't working a regular full-time job, also didn't have any nagging personal commitments 

It's nearly impossible for me to do it now as I have other things that I want to do for entertainment than stay up to date on every single league of every sport that interests me.


----------



## bluesfan94

A lot of FIFA and then at my house, I get NBCSN, BeIN, Fox Sports 1/2 so I record a lot of soccer and watch it. But I also google a lot. It also helps that soccer isn't every day.


----------



## The Abusement Park

spintheblackcircle said:


> So a question for all of you that follow multiple leagues:
> 
> How do you do it?
> 
> I assume most of you follow the NHL and/or other sports closely. I follow the NHL and NFL/NCAA football REALLY closely. Ten years ago I picked up the EPL and my knowledge of that league grows every year. But I still occasionally will blank out as far who plays for whom, but I have a good grasp of it I think.
> 
> But how do you follow England, France, Italy, Germany and Spain....and really KNOW about the 11 starters on 100 clubs plus reserves and youth squads?




Well I watch United religiously, so I get to "scout" the opposing team when I watch. Plus I watch highlight shows and read up on other leagues. It's hard keeping up with so many sports though lol.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Sounds like Kolasinac will not be moving until the summer.


----------



## YNWA14

spintheblackcircle said:


> So a question for all of you that follow multiple leagues:
> 
> How do you do it?
> 
> I assume most of you follow the NHL and/or other sports closely. I follow the NHL and NFL/NCAA football REALLY closely. Ten years ago I picked up the EPL and my knowledge of that league grows every year. But I still occasionally will blank out as far who plays for whom, but I have a good grasp of it I think.
> 
> But how do you follow England, France, Italy, Germany and Spain....and really KNOW about the 11 starters on 100 clubs plus reserves and youth squads?




I don't follow any sport except for soccer anymore. It takes up too much of my time. I follow the EPL (Liverpool) and Eredivisie probably too much, and then watch as many games from Germany, Italy and Spain as I can on top of youth and international games. There are a few places on reddit that are really helpful for finding footage so I don't watch a lot of it live, but yeah.


----------



## Luigi Habs

spintheblackcircle said:


> So a question for all of you that follow multiple leagues:
> 
> How do you do it?
> 
> I assume most of you follow the NHL and/or other sports closely. I follow the NHL and NFL/NCAA football REALLY closely. Ten years ago I picked up the EPL and my knowledge of that league grows every year. But I still occasionally will blank out as far who plays for whom, but I have a good grasp of it I think.
> 
> But how do you follow England, France, Italy, Germany and Spain....and really KNOW about the 11 starters on 100 clubs plus reserves and youth squads?




Outside of the EPL, pretty much all other leagues I follow through streaming. 

Obviously can't watch everything, it's impossible. But I watch pretty much all highlight games weekly of top 5 leagues.


----------



## Evilo

I watch all L1 games (friday, saturday afternoon, saturday evening, sunday afternoon, sunday evening). I do miss some games obviously, but I try to watch as much as I can.
I catch a couple of other league games every weekend : EPL usually, La Liga regularly, BL and Serie A only for big games. I sometimes get some pieces of portugese games, but frankly, I rarely watch any.
I watch CL games, rarely EL games.
I haven't followed the NHL as I used to. For quite a long time in fact (since the Pens won the Cup years ago).


----------



## John Pedro

David Neres (80%) to Ajax for 15M€ fee. Lyanco should go to Juventus for 6M€


----------



## John Pedro

I only watch L1 (mostly PSG games), some Premier League (usually the derbys), as much as I can of UCL... and my local team. B1, La Liga and Serie A only when there's a nice matchup like B. Munich v Red Bull, El ClÃ¡sico, some Sevilla's matches as well, etc...

As for hockey, I watch almost all Devils' games, and a bit of OHL (mostly Mississauga).


----------



## Deficient Mode

spintheblackcircle said:


> So a question for all of you that follow multiple leagues:
> 
> How do you do it?
> 
> I assume most of you follow the NHL and/or other sports closely. I follow the NHL and NFL/NCAA football REALLY closely. Ten years ago I picked up the EPL and my knowledge of that league grows every year. But I still occasionally will blank out as far who plays for whom, but I have a good grasp of it I think.
> 
> But how do you follow England, France, Italy, Germany and Spain....and really KNOW about the 11 starters on 100 clubs plus reserves and youth squads?




Watch matches at double speed. Most are better that way.


----------



## Ceremony

I don't like football.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

As others have said you can't watch everything. Most pick a league and follow that mostly while keeping up with teams of interests. They vary from year to year. La Liga comes first for me, then Argentinian players, followed by the big clubs in EPL, Serie A and Bundesliga(rarely from that german league as it's just not accessible) 

Of course all of Argentina's NT games, plus their youth team.

As for hockey I just to watch well over 150 games, for this year I think I've watched maybe 50-60. Probably less.




John Pedro said:


> I only watch L1 (mostly PSG games), some Premier League (usually the derbys), as much as I can of UCL... and my local team. B1, La Liga and Serie A only when there's a nice matchup like B. Munich v Red Bull, El ClÃ¡sico, some Sevilla's matches as well, etc...
> 
> As for hockey, I watch almost all Devils' games, and a bit of OHL (mostly Mississauga).




No South American games?



Deficient Mode said:


> Watch matches at double speed. Most are better that way.




This can't be a thing?


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Barca's signed an 18 year old CB from Uruguay, Santiago Bueno.


----------



## cgf

TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> Barca's signed an 18 year old CB from Uruguay, Santiago Bueno.




I wonder if he's any good?...


----------



## xavi4life

cgf said:


> I wonder if he's any good?...




Underage player who made a few senior appearances for PeÃ±arol already. Leads Uruguay with most appearances in U15, U17 and U20. Plays like PiquÃ©, has a great pass, great defense skills, lots of height. If he continues the way he is, he could be world class someday. He's 18...


----------



## Deficient Mode

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> This can't be a thing?




Yes



cgf said:


> I wonder if he's any good?...




This is almost as bad as the Immobile jokes


----------



## xavi4life

Lol, the joke went right over my head!


----------



## les Habs

Read that Monchi could be headed out of Sevilla.


----------



## Just Win

Bailey to Leverkusen has been finalized. Rumored transfer fee is 13.5 M € + bonuses, contract till 2022.
To make some room on the team, Mehmedi will be loaned to HSV (assuming they can get rid of Aaron Hunt).


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> No South American games?




Yes, by my local team I meant SA games. Usually BrasileirÃ£o, Libertadores and Copa Sudamericana. Sometimes I catch a bit of the Argentinian league when there's a good game on TV but it's harder cause usually, they were at the same time as games from the Brazilian league.


----------



## Evilo

I aso try to watch as many live games as I can. By live, I mean in the stadium. I also go to as many youth games as possible, and catch games on the internet.
There are a couple of great sources on young players in France as well.


----------



## HajdukSplit

- Jese joins Las Palmas on loan from PSG
- Ranocchia signs for Hull City


----------



## Bon Esprit

Leitner (Lazio, ex-BvB) to Augsburg (fee tbn)
Walace (Porto Alegre) to HSV (contract until 2021, 10m+)


----------



## Power Man

spintheblackcircle said:


> So a question for all of you that follow multiple leagues:
> 
> How do you do it?
> 
> I assume most of you follow the NHL and/or other sports closely. I follow the NHL and NFL/NCAA football REALLY closely. Ten years ago I picked up the EPL and my knowledge of that league grows every year. But I still occasionally will blank out as far who plays for whom, but I have a good grasp of it I think.
> 
> But how do you follow England, France, Italy, Germany and Spain....and really KNOW about the 11 starters on 100 clubs plus reserves and youth squads?




No time for that

Which is sad bcause I have every sport channel fromthe World 

I occasionally catch Real or Barc games if I have nothing else to do, sometines while I'm house cleaning

I watch the must see games, but that's it


I dont realy watch EPL anymore 

Lost interest in the NHL

NBA : I watch highlights during the regular season; playoffs: only the Conference Finals and NBA Finals


----------



## Bon Esprit

Hamit Altintop (Galatarasay, ex Bayern, Real) to Darmstadt for free


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

spintheblackcircle said:


> So a question for all of you that follow multiple leagues:
> 
> How do you do it?
> 
> I assume most of you follow the NHL and/or other sports closely. I follow the NHL and NFL/NCAA football REALLY closely. Ten years ago I picked up the EPL and my knowledge of that league grows every year. But I still occasionally will blank out as far who plays for whom, but I have a good grasp of it I think.
> 
> But how do you follow England, France, Italy, Germany and Spain....and really KNOW about the 11 starters on 100 clubs plus reserves and youth squads?




Watch as much Premier League as I can (the amount I watch is totally dependent on other weekend plans). Rely on box scores and people here for other major leagues, although I'll catch the big games if I can. 

I don't watch as much NHL as I probably should, but I watch when I get the chance. 

Not super invested in any other sports. I'll watch the Raptors with friends if they're watching.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Darmstadt 98 are very busy. At least 4 transfers ( in and out) today. 2 hours to go.


----------



## Evilo

Luis Campos is so in love with Bahlouli, Lille just bought him (and Campos made Monaco buy him last year).


----------



## Evilo

Lille also signed 18 year old albanian Zeka. Monaco (obviously) was after him.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Musonda and Kenedy are set to stay at Chelsea according to Matt Law, and currently doesn't have much optimism for any signings.


----------



## Bon Esprit

bleedblue1223 said:


> Musonda and Kenedy are set to stay at Chelsea according to Matt Law, and currently doesn't have much optimism for any signings.




I just read a rumour Belotti (FC Torino) and/ or Moussa Dembele (Celtic) are in play.


----------



## Bon Esprit

HajdukSplit said:


> - *Jese joins Las Palmas on loan from PSG*
> - Ranocchia signs for Hull City




Just read its Middlesbrough, not Las Palmas???


----------



## bleedblue1223

Bon Esprit said:


> I just read a rumour Belotti (FC Torino) and/ or Moussa Dembele (Celtic) are in play.




They were thinking about a 40 million bid for Dembele, which is what Celtic quoted, and Dembele was on a plane to London, but that was for a knee injury. The belief now is that the pursuit of Dembele will be in the summer.

Michael Emenalo is apparently in Italy, so the Belotti rumor might have some legs to it.


----------



## Bon Esprit

According to SKY St. Petersburg acquire Ivanovic from Chelsea (medical right now)


----------



## Evilo

Luis Campos is on a frenzy, he signed U20 Brazil defenseman Gabriel.

Lille must have signed something like 5 or 6 guys already today.


----------



## Ajacied

Ajax bought David Neres for an international record transfer fee of 15M. Deal is likely to be finalized shortly. Neres will join Ajax halfway february. 

Anyone has any insights on the kid?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

spintheblackcircle said:


> So a question for all of you that follow multiple leagues:
> 
> How do you do it?
> 
> I assume most of you follow the NHL and/or other sports closely. I follow the NHL and NFL/NCAA football REALLY closely. Ten years ago I picked up the EPL and my knowledge of that league grows every year. But I still occasionally will blank out as far who plays for whom, but I have a good grasp of it I think.
> 
> But how do you follow England, France, Italy, Germany and Spain....and really KNOW about the 11 starters on 100 clubs plus reserves and youth squads?




For me, this is what I do.

General knowledge, watch big games or events: NFL, MLB, NBA, NCAAB, NCAAF, Tennis

Watch my teams, but otherwise interest in sport fits in the above category: Mets and NY Jets

Watch intently: Soccer, Hockey, Golf, including my favorite teams and players.


----------



## John Pedro

Evilo said:


> Luis Campos is on a frenzy, he signed U20 Brazil defenseman Gabriel.
> 
> Lille must have signed something like 5 or 6 guys already today.




3M fee. AvaÃ­ FC will retain 15% of his rights.


----------



## John Pedro

Ajacied said:


> Ajax bought David Neres for an international record transfer fee of 15M. Deal is likely to be finalized shortly. Neres will join Ajax halfway february.
> 
> Anyone has any insights on the kid?




I'd say his best comparable in style is Arjen Robben. He's left foot but likes to play the right side as he's really dangerous cutting inside. He's not as good as Robben, of course. He reminds me of Douglas Costa, too. Needs to improve his right foot as it's basically dead weight and finishing skills. 

It's hard to say much about him... he only played 8 games with the senior team. He was quite dominant in the u20 team, though. Ajax has been scouting him since two years ago.

edit: highlights of his game against Ecuador last night and the first game of the tourney
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmzaDpG_ZHs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFrP1WYxLf4


----------



## HajdukSplit

Bon Esprit said:


> Just read its Middlesbrough, not Las Palmas???




He was heavily linked to Boro but chose Las Palmas, which is his hometown club too

http://www.espnfc.com/story/3050102/paris-saint-germain-forward-jese-joins-las-palmas-on-loan


----------



## Vasilevskiy

cgf said:


> I wonder if he's any good?...




hahaha


----------



## Theon

Manolo Gabbiadini to Soton.


----------



## HajdukSplit

Wague to Leicester (loan from Granada), kind of funny he goes to Leicester when he is part of the Pozzo connection with Granada/Udinese/Watford 

Luka Milivojević to Palace is official, 16m


----------



## Live in the Now

Mamadou Sakho joins Palace on loan.

Of note is Gerrard making it sound like Sakho will return if things go well. Now that Gerrard works for the club, I don't think he should be making such comments at all, but he probably was told to say that one.


----------



## Shrimper

We actually signed someone! Although after all our striker targets went elsewhere it was a bit underwhelming to sign a player we had on trial a few months ago. Still, welcome Theo Robinson!


----------



## Power Man

Guedioura from Watford to Boro


----------



## Milos Krasic

Tim Krul to AZ on loan


----------



## Chimaera

Live in the Now said:


> Mamadou Sakho joins Palace on loan.
> 
> Of note is Gerrard making it sound like Sakho will return if things go well. Now that Gerrard works for the club, I don't think he should be making such comments at all, but he probably was told to say that one.




Well, if they're trying to get the 20 million, making it look like Liverpool haven't treated him like he has plague is a good first step.


----------



## Savant

Live in the Now said:


> Mamadou Sakho joins Palace on loan.
> 
> Of note is Gerrard making it sound like Sakho will return if things go well. Now that Gerrard works for the club, I don't think he should be making such comments at all, but he probably was told to say that one.




Liverpool always get screwed when it comes to loaning senior players. Should have made them pay a fee.


----------



## Burner Account

Savant said:


> Liverpool always get screwed when it comes to loaning senior players. Should have made them pay a fee.




I read that Palace are paying Â£2M up front and all of Sakho's wages


----------



## Savant

kyle evs48 said:


> I read that Palace are paying Â£2M up front and all of Sakho's wages




You are saying it like it's a good deal. I'm still traumatized by Aquilani.


----------



## Burner Account

Savant said:


> You are saying it like it's a good deal. I'm still traumatized by Aquilani.




I am saying it like you said they should have made them pay a fee, and they made them pay a fee


----------



## Evilo

Really pleased with the mercato in L1. Usually, our talents leave the league, this time, L1 has imported some nice talent : Draxler, Guedes, Lo Celso, Payet, Gerson, Depay, etc...
Monaco has also not sold any of their incredible talent pool.

With PSG and Monaco still buyers, with OL, OM and Lille spending, we could have a REAL nice race next season.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Deficient Mode said:


> Yes




DOn't you feel like you miss a lot of the game that way. You see less of the great things done in full speed let alone double speed.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> DOn't you feel like you miss a lot of the game that way. You see less of the great things done in full speed let alone double speed.




Nah. It's harder to see individual skill, but easier to see how a team works.


----------



## Edo

If Greizz goes to United, I am going to hate life. Hate it hard. 

They still won't win anything just because it's how they are now, but it'll be hard watching him in their ugly shirts.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Edo said:


> If Greizz goes to United, I am going to hate life. Hate it hard.
> 
> They still won't win anything just because it's how they are now, but it'll be hard watching him in their ugly shirts.




I mean we've both won the FA cup and Community shield recently so that's pretty cool


----------



## les Habs

Edo said:


> If Greizz goes to United, I am going to hate life. Hate it hard.
> 
> They still won't win anything just because it's how they are now, but it'll be hard watching him in their ugly shirts.




Griezmann would certainly make an impact and likely such that they'd be stronger contenders for the league.


----------



## maclean

les Habs said:


> Griezmann would certainly make an impact and likely such that they'd be stronger contenders for the league.




With two players bought for 100+ mil, maybe they'll even finish top 4!


----------



## The Abusement Park

les Habs said:


> Griezmann would certainly make an impact and likely such that they'd be stronger contenders for the league.




As much as I want Griezmann and a more fluid attack, I want Carrick's replacement ASAP. The fact that we still rely on him at 35 isn't good. Clearly we need a regista to function and I have no idea where were going to get another one.


----------



## Blender

maclean said:


> With two players bought for 100+ mil, maybe they'll even finish top 4!




A contest in Manchester to determine who can spend the most and accomplish the least.


----------



## les Habs

maclean said:


> With two players bought for 100+ mil, maybe they'll even finish top 4!




Money wasn't part of the argument. Either way I think a player like Griezmann would definitely make a big impact on the current United's prospects of winning more silverware.



The Abusement Park said:


> As much as I want Griezmann and a more fluid attack, I want Carrick's replacement ASAP. The fact that we still rely on him at 35 isn't good. Clearly we need a regista to function and I have no idea where were going to get another one.




Plenty of positions where United can still improve on. 

IMO you could find a player for that role. Maybe Verratti? You'd have to convince the player first and then fork out bazillions second.


----------



## oilers92

les Habs said:


> Plenty of positions where United can still improve on.
> 
> IMO you could find a player for that role. Maybe Verratti? You'd have to convince the player first and then fork out bazillions second.




Julian Weigl maybe? have him play a bunch and train with carrick also sport witness saying there are reports in Portugal of a deal with nelson semedo in place, how true any deal involving Portugal is is another question tho


----------



## The Abusement Park

les Habs said:


> Money wasn't part of the argument. Either way I think a player like Griezmann would definitely make a big impact on the current United's prospects of winning more silverware.
> 
> 
> 
> Plenty of positions where United can still improve on.
> 
> IMO you could find a player for that role. Maybe Verratti? You'd have to convince the player first and then fork out bazillions second.




There are a lot of positions to upgrade, but a defensive mid with a good passing range is the most important IMO which has been easy to see when playing 4-2-3-1 with Pogba and Herrera in midfield. Carrick is the only legit passing midfielder we have and he won't be around much longer. Read something that said we agreed on a Nelson Semedo deal for the summer so having the RB to replace Valencia is good. Verrati would be the dream, but I could see him going to Juve or Barca more likely than us. Just seems like there's a real lack of players like that right now.


----------



## Deficient Mode

oilers92 said:


> Julian Weigl maybe? have him play a bunch and train with carrick also sport witness saying there are reports in Portugal of a deal with nelson semedo in place, how true any deal involving Portugal is is another question tho




Weigl's not that good according to Les tho

Anyway, he's not leaving Dortmund anytime soon.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Goal says Kostas Manolas has agreed to terms with Inter for a summer move.


----------



## MurrayBannerman

Deficient Mode said:


> Weigl's not that good according to Les tho
> 
> Anyway, he's not leaving Dortmund anytime soon.




If Weigl goes, I'll eat my left shoe.


----------



## The Abusement Park

MurrayBannerman said:


> If Weigl goes, I'll eat my left shoe.




Will you make a video if that happens?


----------



## MurrayBannerman

The Abusement Park said:


> Will you make a video if that happens?




I assume I'll need two hands to eat the shoe. Gonna have to find some manpower.


----------



## Deficient Mode

MurrayBannerman said:


> I assume I'll need two hands to eat the shoe. Gonna have to find some manpower.




I can operate the camera and provide encouragement


----------



## The Abusement Park

MurrayBannerman said:


> I assume I'll need two hands to eat the shoe. Gonna have to find some manpower.




All you need is a tripod. Who needs extra human interaction anyways?


----------



## les Habs

Deficient Mode said:


> Weigl's not that good according to Les tho
> 
> Anyway, he's not leaving Dortmund anytime soon.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

He was just extended. Not going. 

We really can not afford to sell him either.


----------



## Jeffrey

I suggest for Manchester United to buy Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Griezmann, Hummels, Modric and possibly Verratti...
That should be enough for top 4.


----------



## I Eat Crow

Verratti isn't really realistic for United. PSG would only sell him if a team like Juventus, one of the Madrid's, Bayern, or Barca overpays. He'll go to a top 5 club.

I'd keep looking at Portugal to find a Carrick replacement. Danilo Pereira or William Carvalho would both be excellent pick ups and play that stopper/defensive midfielder role really well.


----------



## The Abusement Park

I Eat Crow said:


> Verratti isn't really realistic for United. PSG would only sell him if a team like Juventus, one of the Madrid's, Bayern, or Barca overpays. He'll go to a top 5 club.
> 
> I'd keep looking at Portugal to find a Carrick replacement. Danilo Pereira or William Carvalho would both be excellent pick ups and play that stopper/defensive midfielder role really well.




They don't have the passing range necessary IMO. It's pretty clear United needs a world class passer to make them tick and while good DM's I'm not sure if Carvalho and Pereira are quite there. But I could be wrong I don't watch them enough.


----------



## Savant

Obviously a Summer rumor but Alexandre Lacazette will try to leave Lyon this summer. 

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...tte-says-he-wants-to-leave-lyon-in-the-summer

Where to?


----------



## Evilo

Yes, he's as good as gone. 50M€ is my guessed price.
England most likely, or maybe Atletico if Griezmann leaves or Juve if Dybala leaves.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Too soon for Dybala to leave. 

Calhanoglu said he'll play with Chelsea next season. 

My guess Martial and Aguero won't be with their respective teams next season.


----------



## YNWA14

Liverpool could use a Lacazette when they dump Sturridge.


----------



## Evilo

Curtinho said:


> Liverpool could use a Lacazette when they dump Sturridge.



He'll go to a CL team though. Liverpool must be sure to get there to attract players like him.


----------



## Evilo

I'm thinking Monaco, PSG, Chelsea (Costa leaving?), City (Aguero leaving?), Arsenal, and as I said, maybe Atletico and Juventus will be interested (maybe United too). Tough to pick Liverpool out of these.
Also Dortmund if Auba leaves?


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

I'm not interested in Calhanoglu, and I hope the club isn't either.


----------



## bluesfan94

Lacazette would be a great Arsenal buy.


----------



## Savant

Curtinho said:


> Liverpool could use a Lacazette when they dump Sturridge.




I'm torn between the fact that I wish they had a different kind of option to help break down parked buses, and the fact every target man that comes to Liverpool fails miserably.


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> I'm torn between the fact that I wish they had a different kind of option to help break down parked buses, and the fact every target man that comes to Liverpool fails miserably.




Personally I liked Benteke and given that Klopp has now started doing a lot of crosses into the box when the team runs out of ideas on how to break the bus I think he could have been a really nice option to have. Just IMO.

Though I still think Origi can develop that part of his game a bit better with age, and Lacazette would be a nice option to have. Our front three are great against open teams because of their movement and work-rate but none of them are really pure goal scorers. We need someone like that, or maybe two, to help out when teams aren't playing more open. It's again, the same problem Rodgers ran into even when he fixed the defence by moving to a 3-4-3 -- we just don't have real goal scorers in the team.


----------



## Savant

Curtinho said:


> Personally I liked Benteke and given that Klopp has now started doing a lot of crosses into the box when the team runs out of ideas on how to break the bus I think he could have been a really nice option to have. Just IMO.
> 
> Though I still think Origi can develop that part of his game a bit better with age, and Lacazette would be a nice option to have. Our front three are great against open teams because of their movement and work-rate but none of them are really pure goal scorers. We need someone like that, or maybe two, to help out when teams aren't playing more open. It's again, the same problem Rodgers ran into even when he fixed the defence by moving to a 3-4-3 -- we just don't have real goal scorers in the team.




I would rather have Benteke off the bench that Sturridge honestly in hindsight, but Benteke was also one of the worst, if not the worst 1v1 finisher I have ever seen, which I think is the real reason that he is not here anymore. I agree with you that Liverpool need pure goal scorers, even if it means overhauling the team, but I don't think that it is a guarantee that Lacazette would score more than Firmino either. Lacazette very talented but I think he goal tallies are skewed a bit because he takes a lot of PKs. That being said, Liverpool could use that too. The one player from France I would sign though is probably Rabiot.


----------



## YNWA14

Well I mean, penalties aside he's still a 20+ goal scorer (only 2 penos last season, 9 the season before when he had 30+ goals). Most strikers take the penalties for their team like Firmino would probably have 10+ goals if he took pens, and I think that Firmino is actually a fine striker I just think in some instances the way teams are setting up against us we need someone that is just more of a pure goal scorer to take those chances in tight and be more clinical. Firmino will still score a lot because of the number of chances he generates but he also isn't a guy that thinks to get in and around the box as a first option; he floats around a lot (so does Sturridge).

That's also why I was pretty keen on signing Alex Teixeira before he went to china but I guess we wouldn't pony up. He's extremely composed and quick thinking in the box from what I've seen. Though not a real striker persay he was a real goal scorer.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Juventus agree to Hernanes deal with Hebei Fortune. â‚¬10M fee.


----------



## Bures Elbow

I Eat Crow said:


> Verratti isn't really realistic for United. PSG would only sell him if a team like Juventus, one of the Madrid's, Bayern, or Barca overpays. He'll go to a top 5 club.
> 
> I'd keep looking at Portugal to find a Carrick replacement. Danilo Pereira or William Carvalho would both be excellent pick ups and play that stopper/defensive midfielder role really well.




Danilo is a pure athletic destroyer, not great with the ball.

William Carvalho is fantastic with the ball and has great passing range, but not as strong defensively.

Ruben Neves would be a great shrewd move. Extreme skill, great IQ, and competent defensively despite not being super athletic like Danilo...portos formation necessitates Danilo starting though since they lack balance in midfield and their backline isnt great. So they need someone who can physically impose and cover a lot of ground and just lay off the ball


----------



## maclean

bluesfan94 said:


> Lacazette would be a great Arsenal buy.




They could definitely use him, but probably too much interest for Wenger to bother with more than a low-ball offer


----------



## phisherman

maclean said:


> They could definitely use him, but probably too much interest for Wenger to bother with more than a low-ball offer




Wenger will never go into a bidding war with any of the huge clubs. 

Plus he would have to get rid of at least one of Sanchez, Walcott, Giroud, Akpom, Lucas or Welbeck to even bother going for a striker.


----------



## YNWA14

I'd bet Sanchez at least is gone in the summer.


----------



## Evilo

PSG want Sanchez AND Aguero.


----------



## Jeffrey

Aguero just mentioned that he will go back to Argentina when is contract is up.


----------



## Savant

Curtinho said:


> I'd bet Sanchez at least is gone in the summer.




If one of Sanchez or Ozil goes, I think both wind up leaving.


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> If one of Sanchez or Ozil goes, I think both wind up leaving.




Well it just seems more likely with Sanchez. Ozil I think has said his future is tied in with Wenger, whereas Sanchez has been really irritable and mopey on the pitch in general yelling at his teammates and there's a ton of rumours he wants to leave.


----------



## Vipers31

Seems more like Lahm will hang 'em up in the summer, so one can expect Bayern to be heavy in the market for a top-end wing back (well, relative to what that position has to offer these days).


----------



## Evilo

PSG has agreed to let Matuidi leave the club next summer. With Rabiot behind him on the depth chart, they're not taking any risk (except if Verratti also moves).


----------



## The Abusement Park

Vipers31 said:


> Seems more like Lahm will hang 'em up in the summer, so one can expect Bayern to be heavy in the market for a top-end wing back (well, relative to what that position has to offer these days).




Damn that's sad. One of the best defenders during his era.


----------



## Vipers31

The Abusement Park said:


> Damn that's sad. One of the best defenders during his era.




Definitely. And he hasn't been slowing down to a degree that would make one think that he should think about calling it a career. But the early retirement from the national team showed that he had little interest in keeping his career going just because he can. I hoped it would help prolong his club career, but I guess he's just running out of the fire to put himself through it all. 

It's going to be weird going into a season without him.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Barcelona had a bid turned down for 18 year old Timothy Tillman at Bayern. He's yet to debut for their first team, but he impressed Ancelotti during the preseason tour.


----------



## Cassano

It will be a max-exodus at Arsenal. Alexis, Ozil and Bellerin will all be leaving. Hopefully they get $150m+ from these sales

I'm not sure how Wenger will build his new team though.


----------



## phisherman

mint said:


> It will be a max-exodus at Arsenal. Alexis, Ozil and Bellerin will all be leaving. Hopefully they get $150m+ from these sales
> 
> I'm not sure how Wenger will build his new team though.




I don't see Bellerin leaving.

Sanchez is most likely to leave.


----------



## Luigi Habs

phisherman said:


> I don't see Bellerin leaving.
> 
> Sanchez is most likely to leave.




I'd love him at Juve to keep that 4-2-3-1 going with Dybala/Higuain/Cuadrado


----------



## Cassano

phisherman said:


> I don't see Bellerin leaving.
> 
> Sanchez is most likely to leave.




Bellerin will leave for sure. Both Bayern and Barca will be calling. You'd be stupid to turn those teams down.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Yep, Bellerin will get some massive offers this summer. Having 2 of the 3 clubs in the world that can have their pick of who they want with major needs in the position that Bellerin plays makes it almost a certainty IMO.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Maybe the problem isn't the players that are going but the coach that is staying?


----------



## bleedblue1223

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Maybe the problem isn't the players that are going but the coach that is staying?




It's both. Losing Bellerin to Barca or Bayern isn't a huge problem in the sense that those clubs could pull that caliber of player for almost any club. Real, Barca, Bayern, and most of the time Man U can pull just about any player they want.

If they lose or sell players to any non Barca, Real, or Bayern, then you have issues. If you lose player to England rivals, then you have big problems. It's a sign that you aren't as big as you think or want to be. That would be a problem for Arsenal, unless of course they actually want to move on from those players to make room for perceived upgrades. 

Obviously Wenger is an issue that they haven't been addressing. It's an endless built-in excuse for the club's lack of success.


----------



## Power Man

Yes Bellerin is leaving for sure.

Barca and Bayern are the 2 most likely destinations

Wenger is staying as long as he is helping his bosses save $$$$


----------



## SJSharks72

I know this won't happen but I would absolutely love Bellerin to Manchester United.

Shaw-Smalling/Jones/Rojo-Bailly-Bellerin


----------



## phisherman

Bellerin is leaving for sure after signing a new contract and has stated he is happy staying with Arsenal. 

Ok there.

Ozil wants Wenger to stay so ironically to keep one of their stars they need to keep what is essentially holding them back.

And when has Arsenal let an actual star player go to a "lesser" team?


----------



## Cassano

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Maybe the problem isn't the players that are going but the coach that is staying?




No after 12 years of not winning the league, its definitely the group of players at fault over the years, not the manager. 

Wenger _*finally *_gets to sculpt the team with his bare hands now that the Emirates is paid off.


----------



## Theon

Would take Sanchez in a heartbeat at United. The last time we signed an Arsenal wantaway it turned out alright.


----------



## Havre

Certainly an interesting situation Arsenal have put themselves in.

Still. I think they will all stay. Ã–zil and Sanchez are probably worth more to Arsenal than any other club so...


----------



## VEGASKING

They need to give Sanchez whatever he wants. Ozil is much easier to replace if you cheap out and will only pay one which Arsenal are sure to do. Bellerin just signed the longest deal I've heard of so it doesn't make sense to do that if you plan on leaving in six months but who knows.


----------



## The Abusement Park

VEGASKING said:


> They need to give Sanchez whatever he wants. Ozil is much easier to replace if you cheap out and will only pay one which Arsenal are sure to do. Bellerin just signed the longest deal I've heard of so it doesn't make sense to do that if you plan on leaving in six months but who knows.




I'm curious if Sanchez will sign another contract with Arsenal, he seems unhappy there and I don't think a bigger contract will change that.


----------



## maclean

Czech media are reporting that Arsenal wants a replacement for Cech, that they're not counting on him being number one after the summer, and are looking at Joe Hart


----------



## La Cosa Nostra

Milos Krasic said:


> Juventus agree to Hernanes deal with Hebei Fortune. €10M fee.




Saw that today. Very pleased to he getting that much for an older player who had almost zero chance of ever playing significant minutes for Juve ever again. Not to mention we recouped almost the entire fee we paid for him in the first place.

I really hope the Verratti rumors are just that. I would love to have him but they are talking about 80-90 million €. That's a lot of scratch. Would rather get Donnarumma and save a few mil if we are going to try and spend that much on someone.


----------



## Luigi Habs

La Cosa Nostra said:


> Saw that today. Very pleased to he getting that much for an older player who had almost zero chance of ever playing significant minutes for Juve ever again. Not to mention we recouped almost the entire fee we paid for him in the first place.
> 
> I really hope the Verratti rumors are just that. I would love to have him but they are talking about 80-90 million â‚¬. That's a lot of scratch. Would rather get Donnarumma and save a few mil if we are going to try and spend that much on someone.




Yeah, if Juve keeps playing 4-2-3-1, the midfield is good as is. I'd focus on bringing a LW, a player like Alexis would be amazing. Juve also needs a RB because Litch won't stay and Alves is too old.


----------



## La Cosa Nostra

Yes Sanchez has been linked to Juve for awhile now and the Higuain signing showed everyone that Juve has no problem spending major bucks on an elite player in his late 20s. Lichtsteiner signed an extension a few days back but yeah even considering that they need help there.


----------



## Havre

maclean said:


> Czech media are reporting that Arsenal wants a replacement for Cech, that they're not counting on him being number one after the summer, and are looking at Joe Hart




Still very good, but starting to show his age a bit in my opinion.

DDG, Courtois and Lloris are clearly better - so they are already starting to have a small handicap compared to some of the other top clubs. Not easy to find an obvious upgrade to Cech though (as Liverpool and ManCity have shown), but they certainly need to starting looking around.


----------



## Edo

bleedblue1223 said:


> It's both. Losing Bellerin to Barca or Bayern isn't a huge problem in the sense that those clubs could pull that caliber of player for almost any club. Real, Barca, Bayern, and most of the time* Man U *can pull just about any player they want.
> 
> If they lose or sell players to any non Barca, Real, or Bayern, then you have issues. If you lose player to England rivals, then you have big problems. It's a sign that you aren't as big as you think or want to be. That would be a problem for Arsenal, unless of course they actually want to move on from those players to make room for perceived upgrades.
> 
> Obviously Wenger is an issue that they haven't been addressing. It's an endless built-in excuse for the club's lack of success.




The list of players that have rejected Manchester United since Ferguson left is ridiculously long. They're basically China.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Edo said:


> The list of players that have rejected Manchester United since Ferguson left is ridiculously long. They're basically China.




That's changed now that Mourinho is there, but the China part is part of what I mean. They aren't in the same group as the other 3, but they can write blank checks to anyone. Once they get back to contending for titles domestic and foreign, they'll be in that top group again.


----------



## Prntscrn

Kim KÃ¤llstrÃ¶m -> DjurgÃ¥rdens IF


----------



## Cassano

Ballack said Ozil should leave for Bayern. Can Bayern pony up $80m?

I would prefer him at Barca playing behind MSN and heir to Iniesta. Unfortunately they spent a lot on Gomes so I don't think they'd be that interested.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

mint said:


> Ballack said Ozil should leave for Bayern. Can Bayern pony up $80m?
> 
> I would prefer him at Barca playing behind MSN and heir to Iniesta. Unfortunately they spent a lot on Gomes so I don't think they'd be that interested.




I don't know why any of these clubs would want him.


----------



## Deficient Mode

mint said:


> Ballack said Ozil should leave for Bayern. Can Bayern pony up $80m?
> 
> I would prefer him at Barca playing behind MSN and heir to Iniesta. Unfortunately they spent a lot on Gomes so I don't think they'd be that interested.




Ã–zil would be a weird heir to Iniesta. Totally different players. Bayern haven't gone after Ã–zil in the past but now the future of their attack doesn't look so bright. History would suggest that Ancelotti doesn't rate him that highly though and Bayern's management would probably prefer a younger player.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Ozil is incredibly overrated. Has a ton of talent, but is extremely inconsistent and drifts in and out of games way too much. Unless you are a team with immense offensive talent and try to score as many goals as possible, he becomes too much of a liability IMO. 

If he had a better work rate he could find a role in the right system, like Fabregas with Conte, but even in a free role, he's too unreliable.


----------



## Cassano

bleedblue1223 said:


> Ozil is incredibly overrated. Has a ton of talent, but is extremely inconsistent and drifts in and out of games way too much. Unless you are a team with immense offensive talent and try to score as many goals as possible, he becomes too much of a liability IMO.
> 
> If he had a better work rate he could find a role in the right system, like Fabregas with Conte, but even in a free role, he's too unreliable.



Funny joke


----------



## bleedblue1223

mint said:


> Funny joke




I mean, which part do you disagree with? His technical ability is one of the best, but his work rate is crap. His teams typically suffer because of it.


----------



## Cassano

His work rate isn't crap. You haven't seen him play lately and living off of narratives by English media.


----------



## bleedblue1223

mint said:


> His work rate isn't crap. You haven't seen him play lately and living off of narratives by English media.




As a Chelsea fan, by all means keep him as a critical part of the team.


----------



## Cassano

Ozil's covered the most distance for Arsenal and the German NT.

But but the workrate! We need him to show passion like Mathieu Flamini!!1!


----------



## Cassano

bleedblue1223 said:


> As a Chelsea fan, by all means keep him as a critical part of the team.




I would be ecstatic if he spent the rest of his career with Arsenal. He's easily among the best MFer in the world and the best creating mid in the world.


----------



## cgf

He's the best 10 in the world, but KdB is very close; and there's deeper midfielders I'd take over both.


----------



## Power Man

Ozil is a fantastic player, I still miss the guy

But he can be so nonchalant in big games


----------



## Savant

cgf said:


> He's the best 10 in the world, but KdB is very close; and there's deeper midfielders I'd take over both.




Must be a small list.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> He's the best 10 in the world, but KdB is very close; and there's deeper midfielders I'd take over both.




Mkhitaryan and de Bruyne are both better imo


----------



## Evilo

Hazard too.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Evilo said:


> Hazard too.




Hazard doesn't play as a pure #10 in the same way a guy like Ozil does, though. I wouldn't instinctively describe Hazard as a 10.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Ozil is the best 10 in the world? Yikes.


----------



## les Habs

Hopefully the Ozil to BarÃ§a rumors are BS. Zero interest in the player.


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> Mkhitaryan and de Bruyne are both better imo




Miki has had one season that compares to most of Ozil's since leaving the ukrainian league...where his only other season that could compare to one of Mesut's was achieved playing as a supporting striker, like Kaka used to. Miki had a historically amazing season last year, but one season isn't enough to move him past Mesut for me.

KdB is right there with Ozil in my book so I won't argue with anyone who rates the belgian above our NT's bug-eyed maestro.



Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Hazard doesn't play as a pure #10 in the same way a guy like Ozil does, though. I wouldn't instinctively describe Hazard as a 10.




Agreed. Hazard is a brilliant talent who can be an absolute joy to watch, but I hesitate to call him a pure ten given the way he's played since arriving in the EPL. 

...and if we expand the discussion to pseudo-10s we'd have to include Raffael 



les Habs said:


> Hopefully the Ozil to BarÃ§a rumors are BS. Zero interest in the player.




He's not the guy you _need_, but holy s*** would it be beautiful to watch him feeding MSN with Biscuits sitting behind him.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Ozil is the best 10 in the world? Yikes.






les Habs said:


> Hopefully the Ozil to BarÃ§a rumors are BS. Zero interest in the player.






cgf said:


> He's not the guy you _need_, but holy s*** would it be beautiful to watch him feeding MSN with Biscuits sitting behind him.




I might be losing my mind but I swear we had this discussion before and this sequence of posts already happened. Either that or some serious deja vu.


----------



## Evilo

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Hazard doesn't play as a pure #10 in the same way a guy like Ozil does, though. I wouldn't instinctively describe Hazard as a 10.




Sure, but he's a #10 first and foremost, even if he doesn't play much there.


----------



## KJS14

Evilo said:


> Sure, but he's a #10 first and foremost, *even if he doesn't play much there.*




If he doesn't play there for either club or NT how is he a #10? And its not like he's being forced out of that position by another player, he is just better as a wide forward/wing.


----------



## Evilo

KJS14 said:


> If he doesn't play there for either club or NT how is he a #10? And its not like he's being forced out of that position by another player, he is just better as a wide forward/wing.




I disagree he's better as a winger. His team simple rarely play a #10 (as most pro teams these days) and when they do, it's also a matter of personnel (for instance, Oscar is a weak winger, so Chelsea would play Hazard on the wing and Oscar as a 10).

Very few teams play #10 right now. For instance, Monaco has Bernardo Silva and Lemar, both #10, who play (tremendously) on the wing because of their system.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Evilo said:


> I disagree he's better as a winger. His team simple rarely play a #10 (as most pro teams these days) and when they do, it's also a matter of personnel (for instance, Oscar is a weak winger, so Chelsea would play Hazard on the wing and Oscar as a 10).
> 
> Very few teams play #10 right now. For instance, Monaco has Bernardo Silva and Lemar, both #10, who play (tremendously) on the wing because of their system.




IIRC, Chelsea has played Hazard as a pure #10 a few times and it didn't really work. That said, I seem to remember that being in an attempt to break him out of his funk last season, so it could be attributed to that.


----------



## Blender

Evilo said:


> I disagree he's better as a winger. His team simple rarely play a #10 (as most pro teams these days) and when they do, it's also a matter of personnel (for instance, Oscar is a weak winger, so Chelsea would play Hazard on the wing and Oscar as a 10).
> 
> Very few teams play #10 right now. For instance, Monaco has Bernardo Silva and Lemar, both #10, who play (tremendously) on the wing because of their system.




Until this year Chelsea used a #10 almost every game when playing a 4-2-3-1.

I disagree that Hazard is a #10, he can play there and be effective, but he's a world class player as a winger in my opinion. Honestly you're wasting part of his skill set by playing him as a #10, since one of his best assets is his ability to take the ball from the outside and dribble past defenders into the middle to create chances.


----------



## Evilo

But playing him wide eliminates (or reduces) one of his best asset : his passing.

As for Chelsea's system, it's not a really a 10 in that 4-2-3-1. And a matter of personnel as I said.


----------



## Evilo

wrong thread


----------



## John Pedro

Maxwell is leaving PSG to return to Brazil, probably to SPFC. That will leave PSG without a backup to Kurzawa, although Kimpembe has played some mins as LB and did alright.


----------



## Power Man

Is Corriere Dello Sport reliable?

Read that Amcelotti contacted Ghoulam


----------



## Vasilevskiy

cgf said:


> He's the best 10 in the world, but KdB is very close; and there's deeper midfielders I'd take over both.




He might be in the discussion for #1 10 in the world... if we discuss who is #1 behind Messi


----------



## cgf

Vasilevskiy said:


> He might be in the discussion for #1 10 in the world... if we discuss who is #1 behind Messi




If we wanted to call Messi a 10, then sure. But he has too much goal-scorer in him, which is why I'd call him a playmaking forward or pseudo 9/10, like Raffael.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> If we wanted to call Messi a 10, then sure. But he has too much goal-scorer in him, which is why I'd call him a playmaking forward or pseudo 9/10, like Raffael.




In Messi's dream he's Raffael.


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> In Messi's dream he's Raffael.




No way, Messi's way too humble...in his dream he's Kruse or Stindl, playing next to Raffael...


----------



## Savant

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> In Messi's dream he's Raffael.




Can Germany cap Raffael?


----------



## cgf

Savant said:


> Can Germany cap Raffael?




I like the way you think


----------



## Evilo

Per l'Equipe, City wants Lemar. No kidding.
And one week before the game too.
Such coincidences...


----------



## Jeffrey

Evilo said:


> Per l'Equipe, City wants Lemar. No kidding.
> And one week before the game too.
> Such coincidences...




Guardiola announced Gotze to Bayern just before the CL final.

That being said **** them.... Lemar should remain with Monaco.


----------



## Evilo

Meanwhile OM has locked up Maxime Lopez for at least another year with a fat contract.
Wise of them, and hopefully he moves out of Marseille when he's ready to move to a CL caliber team.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> Meanwhile OM has locked up Maxime Lopez for at least another year with a fat contract.
> Wise of them, and hopefully he moves out of Marseille when he's ready to move to a CL caliber team.




OM will be a CL caliber team


----------



## Prntscrn

wrong thread..


----------



## Evilo

Luiginho said:


> OM will be a CL caliber team



Yeah, right


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Per l'Equipe, City wants Lemar. No kidding.
> And one week before the game too.
> Such coincidences...




City wants a lot of Monaco. They aren't wrong to. Monaco has a very nice squad


----------



## Deficient Mode

An insider on the transfermarkt forums who correctly predicted the returns of Kagawa and Sahin is apparently saying that Dahoud to BVB is a done deal. Great if true. We shall see.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


>




Know anything about Yasser Larouci?

http://m.goal.com/s/en-gb/news/683/...ID=HP_BN_2&utm_referrer=http://m.facebook.com


----------



## Evilo

Quick dribbler but they got the wrong Le Havre guy IMO.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Quick dribbler but they got the wrong Le Havre guy IMO.




Whose the right guy?


----------



## Evilo

Guitane.
But he wasn't on a free.
Larouci chose not to sign with Le Havre and toured english teams looking for a contract.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Guitane.
> But he wasn't on a free.
> Larouci chose not to sign with Le Havre and toured english teams looking for a contract.




Yeah. Those pesky transfer fees. 

Does he have a chance to play at that level?


----------



## Evilo

lol, yes, I'd rather pay a tiny fee for Guitane than no fee for Larouci.

I haven't seen him play in person, but heard from him. He's the kind of exciting young dribbler who can make the difference at his age level. Can he do it with men and in big leagues? Tough to say as of now. I don't think of him as a special talent from what I've been told, but as of now a solid one.


----------



## Power Man

Larouci was born in Algeria 

How old was he when his family moved to France?


----------



## Deficient Mode

BILD are also reporting that Dahoud will leave Gladbach for Dortmund this summer. Only â‚¬10M LMAO.


----------



## Jeffrey

Deficient Mode said:


> BILD are also reporting that Dahoud will leave Gladbach for Dortmund this summer. Only â‚¬10M LMAO.



Dortmund the king of bargain buy and build powerhouse.

That's a big fail from Klopp if it is true.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> BILD are also reporting that Dahoud will leave Gladbach for Dortmund this summer. Only €10M LMAO.




Nice business, if true. Now just get another right-back, and maybe a striker, if Auba leaves. Could also use a younger center-back, depending on where Merino's future is.


----------



## Luigi Habs

How come only 10M? How much left on his contract?


----------



## Jeffrey

Luiginho said:


> How come only 10M? How much left on his contract?



1 year left. Probably a release clause


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Nice business, if true. Now just get* another right-back*, and maybe a striker, if Auba leaves. Could also use a younger center-back, depending on where Merino's future is.




no



Luiginho said:


> How come only 10M? How much left on his contract?




Rumor of release clause and yeah, his contract is up in 2018.


----------



## cgf

BILD is still running with that rumored release clause? lol, they really are atrocious when discussing clubs they don't have many sources with.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> BILD is still running with that rumored release clause? lol, they really are atrocious when discussing clubs they don't have many sources with.




I haven't read the article to see if they are still saying that. I guess technically this is Bild instead of Sport Bild though. They have gotten some Dortmund stuff right recently like the Dembele transfer. They aren't the only source reporting this move of course.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> no




Piszczek can't defend though. He might be the worst offender of all the defenders this season when it comes to playing defense.


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> I haven't read the article to see if they are still saying that. I guess technically this is Bild instead of Sport Bild though. They have gotten some Dortmund stuff right recently like the Dembele transfer. They aren't the only source reporting this move of course.




I'm not criticizing the notion that Dahoud is going to BVB this summer, just the silly rumors about a buyout clause.


----------



## Vipers31

TBH, I always feel like there's a big difference whether it's BILD PLUS news or standard news. The (+) stuff is usually more speculation/rumors/less substance, while when they have something solid, they want to get that to the full audience right away.


----------



## Evilo

Now City wants Benjamin Mendy. A few hours before the game 
Could they make it more obvious?


----------



## cgf

Vipers31 said:


> TBH, I always feel like there's a big difference whether it's BILD PLUS news or standard news. The (+) stuff is usually more speculation/rumors/less substance, while when they have something solid, they want to get that to the full audience right away.




Even regular BILD has terrible sources with BMG, which is why them reporting a buyout clause is so hard to believe. Especially after the way Dahoud's agent and management quashed that rumor when it first started last summer.


----------



## Theon

Looks like Rooney is off to China.


----------



## Evilo

L'Equipe reports that JK Augustin has rejected PSG's contract extension offer and has agreed with Dortmund on a salary for a summer transfer !
BVB are ready to pay 8M€ for him, but PSG is not seller since they let go Moussa DembÃ©lÃ© and Coman for nothing the last few years.
That said, Emery never gave him a fair chance to play, even though he rather impressed in his limited minutes.

MbappÃ©'s sotck has risen apparently (I can't imagine scouts discovered him in that CL game or really it's getting pretty bad), and Bayern, Barca, Real, Tottenham and Arsenal have shown interest.
The plan for the team and the player though is to stay one more year as a full time starter, which makes sense one year before the WC.


----------



## Power Man

So it looks like Napoli and Ghoulam won't reach an agreement on his contract extension.

I jut hope he choses his next team wisely (by that I meann not stacked at the LB position)


----------



## Savant

Power Man said:


> So it looks like Napoli and Ghoulam won't reach an agreement on his contract extension.
> 
> I jut hope he choses his next team wisely (by that I meann not stacked at the LB position)




Would be very happy to have him at Liverpool


----------



## Evilo

Lyon's president JM Aulas announces some selling next summer. Lacazette and Tolisso should be among them.


----------



## phisherman

Evilo said:


> Lyon's president JM Aulas announces some selling next summer. Lacazette and Tolisso should be among them.




Why? Is he just cashing them in while their value is high?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> L'Equipe reports that JK Augustin has rejected PSG's contract extension offer and has agreed with Dortmund on a salary for a summer transfer !
> BVB are ready to pay 8Mâ‚¬ for him, but PSG is not seller since they let go Moussa DembÃ©lÃ© and Coman for nothing the last few years.
> That said, Emery never gave him a fair chance to play, even though he rather impressed in his limited minutes.




I like him but it would be kind of a weird move when they just bought Isak. I guess if last summer is any indication, Dortmund isn't afraid of doubling down on the youth movement.


----------



## Power Man

Savant said:


> Would be very happy to have him at Liverpool




But the Moreno/Milner combo is entertaining


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bild reporting that Ginter's representatives are talking with Leipzig. With Toprak joining Dortmund, one of the CB's was going to go. As long as its not Sokratis, it doesn't really matter which one. None are that good.


----------



## awesomo

Theon said:


> Looks like Rooney is off to China.




he just confirmed hes staying at United.

Too bad, wouldve been nice to cash in on him


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Bild reporting that Ginter's representatives are talking with Leipzig. With Toprak joining Dortmund, one of the CB's was going to go. As long as its not Sokratis, it doesn't really matter which one. None are that good.




Bender and Bartra should both be kept over Ginter. Bender is very good when healthy and Bartra has not been nearly bad enough not to merit a second year to establish himself. You know, like Ginter and every other player who didn't force their way out (Immobile) got.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> Bender and Bartra should both be kept over Ginter. Bender is very good when healthy and Bartra has not been nearly bad enough not to merit a second year to establish himself. You know, like Ginter and every other player who didn't force their way out (Immobile) got.




I don't have a strong opinion on this because I don't think any of the three are good enough to make a big fuss about. It made sense that Ginter was the odd man out of Bartra, Bender and Ginter. As you said, Bartra would always be getting the second season. How much value can Bender have with how much time he's missed this season? Ginter's the youngest of the three, and probably has the most value. 

I still think another CB might be needed. While I am less worried about Bartra and Bender competing for places 3 and 4, and then there's Piszczek who can play RCB and Merino can play either CB position, none of these players are that good. There are tons of options for 3, 4, 5, 6, but we don't even know if Toprak at 2 is going to be that good. I've read that he's struggled at Leverkusen this season. This is one of Dortmund's major hurdles to competing with Bayern. Bayern is way better defensively. We can kind of compete offensively, not defensively. We need more quality at the back. It'd be nice if Dortmund did a spending spree on younger defenders, like with what happened for attackers last year.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I don't have a strong opinion on this because I don't think any of the three are good enough to make a big fuss about. It made sense that Ginter was the odd man out of Bartra, Bender and Ginter. As you said, Bartra would always be getting the second season. How much value can Bender have with how much time he's missed this season? Ginter's the youngest of the three, and probably has the most value.
> 
> I still think another CB might be needed. While I am less worried about Bartra and Bender competing for places 3 and 4, and then there's Piszczek who can play RCB and Merino can play either CB position, none of these players are that good. There are tons of options for 3, 4, 5, 6, but we don't even know if Toprak at 2 is going to be that good. I've read that he's struggled at Leverkusen this season. This is one of Dortmund's major hurdles to competing with Bayern. Bayern is way better defensively. We can kind of compete offensively, not defensively.




Bender has had several injury-plagued seasons before and he always came back and did well. There is a lot of evidence that injuries don't diminish his performance, and he's still only 27. 

I have some misgivings about Toprak and yeah, he hasn't been good this year. Some might say that he already had his head at Dortmund, and I definitely rated him before. Bender, Sokratis, Toprak, and Bartra is a good group and I'm optimistic about them. Bender isn't a #3 guy either. He was more like #2 last year, and I expect him to be on the same level as Toprak and Sokratis when healthy. As I've said before, a lot of Dortmund's defensive issues aren't just on the personnel but structural and timing things.


----------



## Evilo

phisherman said:


> Why? Is he just cashing them in while their value is high?




Change of scenery I guess. He needs some cash and he'll get 100M out of these two most likely.
Lyon will miss the CL remember. Then he'll buy a 30M target and be happy.


----------



## phisherman

Evilo said:


> Change of scenery I guess. He needs some cash and he'll get 100M out of these two most likely.
> Lyon will miss the CL remember. Then he'll buy a 30M target and be happy.




Kinda sucks. Hoped that they would be able to maintain the group of players. 

Then again hopefully the new manager at Arsenal buys both lol.

I know wishful thinking.


----------



## Evilo

phisherman said:


> Kinda sucks. Hoped that they would be able to maintain the group of players.
> 
> Then again hopefully the new manager at Arsenal buys both lol.
> 
> I know wishful thinking.



Missing the CL must hurt economically.


----------



## Power Man

Bentaleb is officially a Schalke player, Spurs and 04 have reached an agreement


----------



## Bon Esprit

Deficient Mode said:


> Bender has had several injury-plagued seasons before and he always came back and did well. There is a lot of evidence that injuries don't diminish his performance, and he's still only 27.
> 
> I have some misgivings about Toprak and yeah, he hasn't been good this year. Some might say that he already had his head at Dortmund, and I definitely rated him before. Bender, Sokratis, Toprak, and Bartra is a good group and I'm optimistic about them. Bender isn't a #3 guy either. He was more like #2 last year, and I expect him to be on the same level as Toprak and Sokratis when healthy. As I've said before, a lot of Dortmund's defensive issues aren't just on the personnel but structural and timing things.




I think there will some movements on Dortmund anyway. Players like Weidenfeller, Kagawa, Sahin AND GÃ¶tze I can see leave.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> I think there will some movements on Dortmund anyway. Players like Weidenfeller, Kagawa, Sahin AND GÃ¶tze I can see leave.




Definitely Park as well. Maybe Merino. No one has any clue what's happening with him. There were rumors he might go out on loan in the January window. Mor is another one. What will happen with him? He's barely played this season. 

Castro goes instead of Goetze. Goetze has been good. It seems like he might be having a problem with Tuchel, but there's no reason he should leave. He's a definite positive for the team.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Definitely Park as well. Maybe Merino. No one has any clue what's happening with him. There were rumors he might go out on loan in the January window. Mor is another one. What will happen with him? He's barely played this season.
> 
> Castro goes instead of Goetze. Goetze has been good. *It seems like he might be having a problem with Tuchel, but there's no reason he should leave*. He's a definite positive for the team.




If Tuchel stays (and I have my doubts he will) it must be clear for GÃ¶tze another season on the bench might happen.
From what I read Klopp likes GÃ¶tze and vice versa. Not saying it will be Liverpool, but I don't see GÃ¶tze staying.


----------



## Theon

awesomo said:


> he just confirmed hes staying at United.
> 
> Too bad, wouldve been nice to cash in on him




Yeah, I was basing that previous post on reports that his agent is in China to negotiate a move.

I don't mind him staying at all. It's good to have numbers in depth with all the competitions we are in. I reckon we'll see him play a lot against Rostov in the first leg.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Definitely Park as well. Maybe Merino. No one has any clue what's happening with him. There were rumors he might go out on loan in the January window. Mor is another one. What will happen with him? He's barely played this season.
> 
> Castro goes instead of Goetze. Goetze has been good. It seems like he might be having a problem with Tuchel, but there's no reason he should leave. He's a definite positive for the team.




Again, the club doesn't sell players after one year barring exceptional circumstances. Rode may be bad/unimpressive enough to merit that, but Merino and Mor definitely aren't. Loan moves if anything.

Neither Castro nor GÃ¶tze should go. Castro is a very good utility player across many positions as long as he isn't relied upon to run the game in midfield. GÃ¶tze drama is probably a bit overblown as always. When Tuchel shifts back to an attacking style that is less fast-paced and counter- and dribble-oriented, GÃ¶tze will again be an important player. 



Bon Esprit said:


> If Tuchel stays (and I have my doubts he will) it must be clear for GÃ¶tze another season on the bench might happen.
> From what I read Klopp likes GÃ¶tze and vice versa. Not saying it will be Liverpool, but I don't see GÃ¶tze staying.




Tuchel will also stay. I will be furious if they let him go after two years. And it has been far from a full season on the bench for GÃ¶tze anyway. He was one of the team's most regular players before the winter break, and has had a couple of injury issues that have kept him from regaining fitness since then. I don't think Tuchel is perfectly happy with him, or that the team's current style suit GÃ¶tze, but it's an absurd exaggeration of the recent situation of the team to think that the club will have to make a choice between Tuchel and GÃ¶tze this summer. The media has been happy to continue the narrative of GÃ¶tze's demise, but let's not forget how often Tuchel changes his strategy over the course of a season. I fully expect GÃ¶tze to return to relevance.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> Again, the club doesn't sell players after one year barring exceptional circumstances. Rode may be bad/unimpressive enough to merit that, but Merino and Mor definitely aren't. Loan moves if anything.
> 
> Neither Castro nor GÃ¶tze should go. Castro is a very good utility player across many positions as long as he isn't relied upon to run the game in midfield. GÃ¶tze drama is probably a bit overblown as always. When Tuchel shifts back to an attacking style that is less fast-paced and counter- and dribble-oriented, GÃ¶tze will again be an important player.
> 
> 
> 
> Tuchel will also stay. I will be furious if they let him go after two years. And it has been far from a full season on the bench for GÃ¶tze anyway. He was one of the team's most regular players before the winter break, and has had a couple of injury issues that have kept him from regaining fitness since then. I don't think Tuchel is perfectly happy with him, or that the team's current style suit GÃ¶tze, but it's an absurd exaggeration of the recent situation of the team to think that the club will have to make a choice between Tuchel and GÃ¶tze this summer. The media has been happy to continue the narrative of GÃ¶tze's demise, but let's not forget how often Tuchel changes his strategy over the course of a season. I fully expect GÃ¶tze to return to relevance.




I was suggesting loans for Merino and Mor, not saying they'll leave permanently. What good does it do them or Dortmund to have them not play another season?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> Lyon's president JM Aulas announces some selling next summer. Lacazette and Tolisso should be among them.




I've seen a lot of rumors recently that Juve will buy Tolisso.


----------



## maclean

Evilo said:


> MbappÃ©'s sotck has risen apparently (I can't imagine scouts discovered him in that CL game or really it's getting pretty bad), and Bayern, Barca, Real, Tottenham and Arsenal have shown interest.




Not scouts, one would think, but you also have to factor in the influence of people more involved in the business side of things, or like, friends of the owners. Maybe the scouts have been talking about this guy, they've all heard things about him, but now he puts it all on display right in Manchester so there's suddenly all this hype. It's the same as when players shine at the Euro or other big tournament, shouldn't be all that much of a surprise that a global game like that changes teams' approach.


----------



## Evilo

It should change some media and some fans' view of the player.
Officials and agents though? Ouch...


----------



## Blender

maclean said:


> Not scouts, one would think, but you also have to factor in the influence of people more involved in the business side of things, or like, friends of the owners. Maybe the scouts have been talking about this guy, they've all heard things about him, but now he puts it all on display right in Manchester so there's suddenly all this hype. It's the same as when players shine at the Euro or other big tournament, shouldn't be all that much of a surprise that a global game like that changes teams' approach.




This is probably right. I'm sure all the professional scouts who have been assigned to watch either L1 or him specifically have a pretty good knowledge of him and have reported him to their club. It's a different thing though for the manage/owner who has likely never watched him (or only watched him once or twice) and only read reports to be sitting there as he performs greatly against their club.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> It should change some media and some fans' view of the player.
> Officials and agents though? Ouch...




Fan/Media attention on a player affects his value because of marketability.


----------



## Evilo

Hopefully team officials that want to win don't get interested in MbappÃ© because fans noticed him but because they think he can help them win...


----------



## Jersey Fresh

West Ham supposedly looking to sign RB Kevin Malcuit from St. Etienne in the summer. Â£10 million I saw.


----------



## Evilo

Lol 10M..


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Evilo said:


> Lol 10M..




On the scale of "not worth it" to "pure insanity", where are we looking here?


----------



## Evilo

Both 
Basically, I think SaintÃ© would have signed for half that offer.
Malcuit is a former winger, from Monaco's academy IIRC. He was a quick guy who dazed for short stretches because of that explosiveness.
Couldn't cut it in L1 though because he lacked other offensive weapons, including offensive IQ. Full effort guy, no doubt, and big speed, but that was about it.
So he moved to L2 and at some point was played as RB (and I think I saw him at LB sometimes).
His qualities are clearly a better fit there and he's been good with St Etienne since coming back to L1 (but has only started this year). But I'm still far from convinced he's good enough to face good wingers. St Etienne is a defensive team and he looks better than he is because of the system IMO.
So basically you're signing a 25 year old who has 6 months of L1 experience at RB.

Signing a RB for that much money is questionnable, but given the context is IS insanity.
I'm not sure if Corchia would join West Ham (he has big suitors for years, but hasn't signed anywhere), but he's a much more proven commodity and probably available for the same price.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Evilo said:


> Both
> Basically, I think SaintÃ© would have signed for half that offer.
> Malcuit is a former winger, from Monaco's academy IIRC. He was a quick guy who dazed for short stretches because of that explosiveness.
> Couldn't cut it in L1 though because he lacked other offensive weapons, including offensive IQ. Full effort guy, no doubt, and big speed, but that was about it.
> So he moved to L2 and at some point was played as RB (and I think I saw him at LB sometimes).
> His qualities are clearly a better fit there and he's been good with St Etienne since coming back to L1 (but has only started this year). But I'm still far from convinced he's good enough to face good wingers. St Etienne is a defensive team and he looks better than he is because of the system IMO.
> So basically you're signing a 25 year old who has 6 months of L1 experience at RB.
> 
> Signing a RB for that much money is questionnable, but given the context is IS insanity.
> I'm not sure if Corchia would join West Ham (he has big suitors for years, but hasn't signed anywhere), but he's a much more proven commodity and probably available for the same price.




How long do you think Corchia stays in France? Seems like he could be a really smart buy for a lot of teams.


----------



## Evilo

The Abusement Park said:


> How long do you think Corchia stays in France? Seems like he could be a really smart buy for a lot of teams.




No idea. There have been rumors about him moving to PSG, OM, OL, Bayern and many other teams over the years, but he still hasn't moved from Lille.
Now Lille targets bigger things, so they might hang onto him.


----------



## cgf

BMG sniffing around Henry Onyekuru; read something about a 7M fee being banded about. Can some of our belgian posters comment on this kid? Looks to have some incredibly quick feet & a good nose for goal. I'm wondering if he's more of a Traore successor on the wing, or if he could end up in the center of the attack next to Hazard & Avdijaj/Hagi/etc.


----------



## Havre

What's happening with Rabiot? Just a way to pressure PSG for a new contract or is he seriously thinking of moving?


----------



## Evilo

Probably tired of being benched in favor of Motta, but I think the last games have shown he can play the 6 with ease and since Motta is leaving next summer, I think it'll go fine.
One thing's for sure, Rabiot has a high opinion of himself (to be fair, he's quite a talent) and thinks he should be starting every game and he's probably frustrated being behind Verratti and Matuidi and until recently Motta.
I think he can be sure to start next year since Motta is leaving and Matuidi might.


----------



## Havre

Thanks.

Assuming he has actually said anything (I used to live in France, but can't understand much French unfortunately - and I don't trust English media on these kind of things) the timing seems a bit odd. If he isn't playing 1 year from now I would have understood, but as you say he will most likely get more and more minutes in the near future - so why come with this now?

Do you think there might be a chance that some bridges are actually burned with PSG (due to his personality)? And that he will "force" a move even if it is likely PSG will give him more minutes.


----------



## Evilo

Frankly, bridges could have been burnt a long time ago. He had some tensions with Laurent Blanc, and his mother (also his agent) is quite a pain.
Don't think he'll force a move out since El Khelaifi will gently give him a huge extension and he'll be a starter from next summer on.

That said, if Barca puts 70M€ on the table and Rabiot wants out, who knows?
But the guy's ambitious and he won't sign on a lesser team than PSG.


----------



## Havre

OK. No-one can know of course, but I value your input. Sounds most likely to me as well even if I don't know much about Rabiot's personality and situation behind the scene at PSG myself.

Only if he desperately wants out and the handful teams that are bigger than PSG show no interested could I see him making a move to London (recently been linked to Arsenal and Spurs - whatever a "link" means these days).


----------



## Evilo

Frankly I have a hard time seeing him sign with Spurs or Gunners. No harm intended, but I think he targets a top 5 team in Europe. Like he should because he belongs there.


----------



## Savi

cgf said:


> BMG sniffing around Henry Onyekuru; read something about a 7M fee being banded about. Can some of our belgian posters comment on this kid? Looks to have some incredibly quick feet & a good nose for goal. I'm wondering if he's more of a Traore successor on the wing, or if he could end up in the center of the attack next to Hazard & Avdijaj/Hagi/etc.




He's been a bit of a sensation in the Belgian league this season, although since December he's slowed down a bit. Had his mind set on a transfer but the owners want to wait till the end of the season to negotiate, and he's been somewhat surly since then. But he's also one of the main reasons why a very small club like Eupen will not be relegated this year.

While he's still a bit small and fragile, he's been a nightmare for a lot of defences this year. As you said, he's got very quick feet and he can score. His dribbling skills can be amazing to watch one game but then the next game it seems like he's fighting the ball so that needs some work. He usually plays left wing at Eupen but he can probably play any forward position. Sometimes he reminds me of Mane. He just needs to grow stronger. But the basics are there, it would surprise me if he didn't at least became a solid player in a top league.

However, if you want to sign him, get in line. Most pundits over here say he should move to a Belgian top club in the summer, and then make a big move next year if he continues to impress. But there are so many rumours that he will probably go abroad as fast as he can. Furthermore, Eupen's owners are Aspire Academy from Qatar and they'd rather sell him to a high profile club to boost their own brand then let him stay in Belgium for another year. CSKA Moscow and Fenerbahce have been interested for quite a while and are talked about a lot in Belgian media as his possible next destination.


----------



## Havre

Evilo said:


> Frankly I have a hard time seeing him sign with Spurs or Gunners. No harm intended, but I think he targets a top 5 team in Europe. Like he should because he belongs there.




I don't disagree. But what does he do if RM, Barcelona, BM etc. aren't interested? I agree with you I think he will stay at PSG. It was his comments that made me a bit curious.

I don't think it is given that bigger clubs than PSG are, at the moment, desperate to sign Rabiot. He is good with a lot of potential, but if any of the big ones really want to spend on a young midfield player in the summer Saul, Verratti and maybe a guy like Tielemans will be hunted first (guessing Verratti won't be sold regardless and Saul's price tag will of course be far higher than Rabiot).


----------



## Evilo

I think he's not far from Verratti because he brings more in the finishing part. PSG will happily keep him, but I'd say a team like Barca would be interested in Verratti and him. Bayern might be interested too. And then both Manchester clubs. Juventus too.
Rabiot's among the very best young CMs in the game, in fact young or not.
It's just a matter of unleashing him and his playing time. When you see his performance against Barca this year or Real last year, it's quite telling.


----------



## YNWA14

Would have liked to see Liverpool go after Onyekuru. Really like what I've seen of him. But BMG would be a good place for him too as long as he'll get playtime.


----------



## mfilipo3

Evilo said:


> I think he's not far from Verratti because he brings more in the finishing part. PSG will happily keep him, but I'd say a team like Barca would be interested in Verratti and him. Bayern might be interested too. And then both Manchester clubs. Juventus too.
> Rabiot's among the very best young CMs in the game, in fact young or not.
> It's just a matter of unleashing him and his playing time. When you see his performance against Barca this year or Real last year, it's quite telling.




I agree Evilo. He has impressed me every time I've watched him play, especially this year. I don't know how Motta, when healthy, still gets the nod over him. I was hoping Arsenal would have went for him this past summer instead of Xhaka.


----------



## cgf

Savi said:


> He's been a bit of a sensation in the Belgian league this season, although since December he's slowed down a bit. Had his mind set on a transfer but the owners want to wait till the end of the season to negotiate, and he's been somewhat surly since then. But he's also one of the main reasons why a very small club like Eupen will not be relegated this year.
> 
> While he's still a bit small and fragile, he's been a nightmare for a lot of defences this year. As you said, he's got very quick feet and he can score. His dribbling skills can be amazing to watch one game but then the next game it seems like he's fighting the ball so that needs some work. He usually plays left wing at Eupen but he can probably play any forward position. Sometimes he reminds me of Mane. He just needs to grow stronger. But the basics are there, it would surprise me if he didn't at least became a solid player in a top league.
> 
> However, if you want to sign him, get in line. Most pundits over here say he should move to a Belgian top club in the summer, and then make a big move next year if he continues to impress. But there are so many rumours that he will probably go abroad as fast as he can. Furthermore, Eupen's owners are Aspire Academy from Qatar and they'd rather sell him to a high profile club to boost their own brand then let him stay in Belgium for another year. CSKA Moscow and Fenerbahce have been interested for quite a while and are talked about a lot in Belgian media as his possible next destination.




Thanks for the info

How inconsistent is that? Is it more just sporadic games where he's off, or is it a pretty regular occurence? Mane is a player who sprang to mind watching his compilations; I also couldn't help but think of Ibrahima Traore when he's playing well given the gladbach links.

As for the move, I don't think Eberl's ever signed someone who hadn't been tracking & in touch with for a few years prior to the move.  Usually when the rumors start firming up from BMG's end it's because they're already starting to get somewhere with the financial arrangement. And depending on the kid's focus for his career, the decision between CSKA/Fener & BMG should be no decision for him; one is a premiere club for young starlets to break through with; the others pay higher wages & stagnate the development of a lot of young talent.


----------



## Savant

Melissa Reddy has Liverpool interested in Naby Keita. 

Would be very happy about that one but there are obvious challenges with that one.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Savant said:


> Melissa Reddy has Liverpool interested in Naby Keita.
> 
> Would be very happy about that one but there are obvious challenges with that one.




I reckon most of Europe will be before too long


----------



## Jeffrey

Savant said:


> Melissa Reddy has Liverpool interested in Naby Keita.
> 
> Would be very happy about that one but there are obvious challenges with that one.




That signing would be A+


----------



## Burner Account

Liverpool is interested so that means he will go to Dortmund


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

kyle evs48 said:


> Liverpool is interested so that means he will go to Dortmund




That would be wonderful, Keita and Dahoud. Now lets just add Tielemans, and Rode will never step foot on the field for Dortmund again. 

I really don't see the Keita fit, if Dahoud has actually signed. We are probably out on Keita, clearing the path for Liverpool.


----------



## Jeffrey

kyle evs48 said:


> Liverpool is interested so that means he will go to Dortmund



Haha pretty much. Dortmund is the new Spurs.

Liverpool are really a joke at this moment... I don't know where they are heading? They seem to be content on being a middle of the pack club.


----------



## YNWA14

Yeah, I'm down for Keita. I'm still not overly sold on Lallana who I think had a really good run of form but ultimately should be used as a squad player.

Henderson
Keita - Wijnaldum​
That's a nice trio I think. Though I still think we need someone that can properly deputize for Henderson and give Can the boot. Our performances without Henderson this season have been dreadful.


----------



## Vipers31

That's the Leipzig Keita, right? Good luck buying from them.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Keita is a magnificent player. I've been following Leipzig's games this season and he's the team's engine in midfield, he's everywhere, really high work rate, extremely intelligent and is talented on top of it. Last place I'd want to see him is at Liverpool, doesn't look like a good fit. Also, the way things are going right now, he'd be playing CL football with Leipzig next season, which he wouldn't at Liverpool.


----------



## cgf

Will be interesting to see what happens in Leipzig this summer. If they can resist raiders with their funds, as is expected, and instead add to their backline & midfield; they could be a very fun team to watch in the CL next season.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I thought they weren't allowed to play in UCL because Red Bull owns two clubs in the UCL for next season, and you can't own two teams in the same European club competition, so the team thats placed lower in the standings of their league is the team that doesn't compete in the Champions League.


----------



## Savant

Vipers31 said:


> That's the Leipzig Keita, right? Good luck buying from them.




Yup. I doubt it happens unless Leipzig misses CL. Liverpool's implosion won't help things either. That being said he would be one of the two perfect midfield signings for them. I'd put Rabiot out there but that ship has sailed, he has no reason to leave PSG now.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I thought they weren't allowed to play in UCL because Red Bull owns two clubs in the UCL for next season, and you can't own two teams in the same European club competition, so the team thats placed lower in the standings of their league is the team that doesn't compete in the Champions League.




I can't imagine UEFA wants RedBull to put this before EU courts any more than the DFB wanted to put the 50+1 rule in front of the European courts. So I'll be shocked if there's any issue with the second best team in German this season playing in the CL...and it's highly unlikely BVB, TSG or anyone else catches RB for second; never mind two teams passing them to push them out of an auto-qualifier spot.

They'll play in the CL. The only questions will be if they can add a young stud CB or if they'll have to settle for Ginter; whether they'll be able to add another stud CM to join Keita & Ilsanker behind Werner, Forsberg, Sabitzer, Poulenc and Burke...preferable one without the ego issues that have pushed Janelt & Toure out of the organization...as I'm skeptical anything will come of the rumors linking them to Amiri; at least not if TSG doesn't implode while Keita is sold; and whether they can avoid raiders to only sell guys who haven't worked out (like Selke).

All in all their pressing and danger on the counter will make them fun in Europe, but that midfield needs more talent around Keita and the back line will be iffy in the middle even if Upamecano has a Tah like breakthrough next season...as their FBs are quite intriguing with Halstenberg locking up the left and Klostermann set to battle Bernardo for the RB position moving forward.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Keita is the sort of player Liverpool should have been trying to sign last summer. Sure, he was already the best player in Austria and in the Red Bull family of teams, but it's easier to buy a player with fewer remaining years on his contract from Salzburg than from Leipzig. I don't know why Liverpool apparently continue to go after Leipzig and Dortmund players either, or in general players who have already made their breakthrough for a good team in a top European league. If Keita moves on now, he will go to a club like PSG or Bayern.

Leipzig will be in the CL next year. Red Bull would sell Salzburg before they turned down Leipzig's automatic CL spot.


----------



## YNWA14

If Keita is beyond our reach I'd like to see us try and grab Tielemans maybe. Apparently the teams sniffing around him are Everton and Tottenham.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> They'll play in the CL. The only questions will be if they can add a young stud CB or if they'll have to settle for Ginter; whether they'll be able to add another stud CM to join Keita & Ilsanker behind Werner, Forsberg, Sabitzer, Poulenc and Burke...preferable one without the ego issues that have pushed Janelt & Toure out of the organization...as I'm skeptical anything will come of the rumors linking them to Amiri; at least not if TSG doesn't implode while Keita is sold; and whether they can avoid raiders to only sell guys who haven't worked out (like Selke).




They have that French CB who's name I'm going to butcher, if I try to spell it. He looked pretty good.


----------



## Evilo

Upamecano.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> They have that French CB who's name I'm going to butcher, if I try to spell it. He looked pretty good.




Kolodiecizak? 

As close as I'm gonna get without looking it up lol


----------



## cgf

The Abusement Park said:


> Kolodiecizak?
> 
> As close as I'm gonna get without looking it up lol




We were talking about RB, so he meant Upamecano


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Yeah, Upamecano. Looked pretty decent, when I saw him play, and they spent a lot of money on him. I'd suspect he gets a chance before they bring in another younger CB around his age, although they might bring in a Ginter or someone like that for some depth. I think Upamecano's probably their long-term answer at the position.


----------



## cgf

Upamecano is just one guy. Orban is very meh and Compper is a liability against teams who are any good. Ginter would be an upgrade for them, but they have the funds & CL-football to offer to get better. And not to get exposed in the CL next season, they're almost certainly going to need better; even if Upamecano has a huge break through campaign.


----------



## The Abusement Park

cgf said:


> We were talking about RB, so he meant Upamecano




Oops. My B lol


----------



## Evilo

PSG apparently have made a (big) bid on Sturridge


----------



## PeteWorrell

Evilo said:


> PSG apparently have made a (big) bid on Sturridge



Liverpool should take the money and run.


----------



## Cassano

Evilo said:


> PSG apparently have made a (big) bid on Sturridge




Well the last time he was paired alongside a world-class Uruguayan striker....


----------



## hatterson

What qualifies as a big bid on Sturridge? 30m?


----------



## Evilo

That's the number I read yes.
Though I'm pretty sure it's just english papers hoping for the best.
Otherwise PSG's transfer committee is worse than I thought.


----------



## Savant

Reddy said PSG made a loan approach in winter for Sturridge. If there is a summer bid there will be a sale.


----------



## Live in the Now

Sturridge has very bad legs, but is a great finisher and could still score a crapload of goals playing for the right team.


----------



## Evilo

Live in the Now said:


> Sturridge has very bad legs, but is a great finisher and could still score a crapload of goals playing for the right team.



But he's old, injured and PSG could dip into the L1 market and pay half the price for someone younger and healthy.
But PSG NEVER buys in L1


----------



## Burner Account

hatterson said:


> What qualifies as a big bid on Sturridge? 30m?




Yeah I would consider that big given his injury troubles.


----------



## Prntscrn

mint said:


> Well the last time he was paired alongside a world-class Uruguayan striker....




Back then he could run though


----------



## YNWA14

Evilo said:


> But he's old, injured and PSG could dip into the L1 market and pay half the price for someone younger and healthy.
> But PSG NEVER buys in L1




He's only 27, but yeah I would love it if PSG bought Sturridge, especially if they ignored their local market. PSG might even be a good place for him anyway, with other players willing to do the dirty work for him and he can act mostly as a poacher and have a bit of freedom to roam. Though how long he stays healthy would be the real question for them.


----------



## Power Man

Evilo said:


> But he's old, injured and PSG could dip into the L1 market and pay half the price for someone younger and healthy.
> But PSG NEVER buys in L1




Maybe it's a good they don't buy in L1 (well they did buy Kurzawa).

We have seen Juventus and Bayern- teams that were already dominating their respective leagues- increasing the gap further by acquiring their rivals' top players and weakening the competition


----------



## les Habs

Liverpool should definitely dump Sturridge. When some were laughably having a go at Liverpool a few weeks back I was thinking of the squad and Sturridge being sold came to mind right away. I was thinking to another PL side though as I didn't think PSG would actually be interested.



Power Man said:


> Maybe it's a good they don't buy in L1 (well they did buy Kurzawa).
> 
> We have seen Juventus and Bayern- teams that were already dominating their respective leagues- increasing the gap further by acquiring their rivals' top players and weakening the competition




Yet they can outspend the competition regardless.


----------



## Evilo

Power Man said:


> Maybe it's a good they don't buy in L1 (well they did buy Kurzawa).
> 
> We have seen Juventus and Bayern- teams that were already dominating their respective leagues- increasing the gap further by acquiring their rivals' top players and weakening the competition




In a way yeah, but other teams will buy out of L1 anyway.
Since L1 is arguably the best market for top teams, it's absolutely idiotic for PSG to buy foreigners who are more expensive and probably not better.
Case in point : they bought Lucas instead of Hazard. They bought Meunier instead of Corchia. They bought Jese instead of DembÃ©lÃ©.


----------



## Evilo

And now they want Naby Keita for 25M€+.
While he was available for 1.5M€ when he was in France.


----------



## Havre

Evilo said:


> In a way yeah, but other teams will buy out of L1 anyway.
> Since L1 is arguably the best market for top teams, it's absolutely idiotic for PSG to buy foreigners who are more expensive and probably not better.
> Case in point : they bought Lucas instead of Hazard. They bought Meunier instead of Corchia. They bought Jese instead of DembÃ©lÃ©.




You could make such a list for every league - if you cherry pick the successes.

There is absolutely no way that you will find a cheap striker in France being better than the Sturridge from 13-14 (any striker in France if you ask me - including Cavani and Lacazette). Then you got to ask yourself how often will that Sturridge show up over the next 3-4 years?

If you assume he will just continue being "lost" as he is today - then sure - you will find players in Denmark that could outperform him - and many in France.

I don't think Sturridge will ever consistently live up to his potential, but I guess Qatar can afford to take a gamble so...


----------



## Evilo

Wait, you're saying Sturridge is better than Cavani and Lacazette 

No, you can't make the same list for every league because L1 is the league that produces the most talent these days. And since it's quite affordable overall (much more than say english young talent), it's stupid by PSG not to buy L1. Monaco did and I'd say they did pretty well (Mendy, SidibÃ©, Lemar, Bakayoko, etc...).


----------



## Havre

Evilo said:


> Wait, you're saying Sturridge is better than Cavani and Lacazette
> 
> No, you can't make the same list for every league because L1 is the league that produces the most talent these days. And since it's quite affordable overall (much more than say english young talent), it's stupid by PSG not to buy L1. Monaco did and I'd say they did pretty well (Mendy, SidibÃ©, Lemar, Bakayoko, etc...).




Haha. Why even bother replying if you are not going to read my post? I guess that  "amazed" smiley is quite fitting.

I agree that the volume of "talents" is higher in France just because the league is weaker. You could quite easily build a half decent team in the PL as well if you picked players that came through youth teams (assuming you bought them before breaking out) and/or players first being successful at one of the "smaller" clubs. Bale, Pogba, Alli, Mane, Kane etc. - would be half decent.


----------



## Evilo

Havre said:


> Haha. Why even bother replying if you are not going to read my post? I guess that  "amazed" smiley is quite fitting.




"no way that you will find a cheap striker in France being better than the Sturridge from 13-14 (any striker in France if you ask me - including Cavani and Lacazette)"

*ANY* striker, *including *Cavani and Lacazette.
Either your sentence is badly written, or at least there's a lot of doubt as to how to interpret it.



Havre said:


> I agree that the volume of "talents" is higher in France just because the league is weaker.



What? "JUST BECAUSE"? No, the volume of young talents is higher because France has the best academies in the world. Period.
France has the most professionnal players in Europe in the top 5 league.



Havre said:


> You could quite easily build a half decent team in the PL as well if you picked players that came through youth teams (assuming you bought them before breaking out) and/or players first being successful at one of the "smaller" clubs. Bale, Pogba, Alli, Mane, Kane etc. - would be half decent.



Are we talking about the ManÃ© that comes from Metz and the Pogba that comes from Le Havre?


----------



## Havre

Evilo said:


> "no way that you will find a cheap striker in France being better than the Sturridge from 13-14 (any striker in France if you ask me - including Cavani and Lacazette)"
> 
> *ANY* striker, *including *Cavani and Lacazette.
> Either your sentence is badly written, or at least there's a lot of doubt as to how to interpret it.
> 
> 
> What? "JUST BECAUSE"? No, the volume of young talents is higher because France has the best academies in the world. Period.
> France has the most professionnal players in Europe in the top 5 league.
> 
> 
> Are we talking about the ManÃ© that comes from Metz and the Pogba that comes from Le Havre?




Where is the doubt? Not saying everyone would have to agree that Sturridge in 13-14 is better than anything Cavani and Lacazette have done so far, but hardly that shocking of an opinion.

Of course it is easier for a young player to get an opportunity in France than in England. Not saying that PL clubs are all that clever with the way they do things (Southampton and Spurs have shown that it is more than possible to bring more youngsters through - Arsenal have shown it before), but the league with the most money will always spend less on future projects. The failure in England is the Championship with its ridiculous schedule which is not well suited for development at all (that is another discussion).

You mean the Hazard from Belgium?

And again - why don't you read what I write? I said players that came through "smaller" clubs in the same league as well. You are arguing the case for Hazard being bought by a bigger French club. The same way a bigger English club bought Mane. So my example is valid.


----------



## Evilo

Have you noticed Cavani is the best scorer in Europe? Wondering... Even Savi has shut his mouth 

Hazard's been to a french academy, sorry to bring you the news.

If you think the only difference between young french talent and young english talent is opportunities, you're either blind, or quite funny. Can't tell which?

Your example is NOT valid.
Hazard was a french academy product, and PSG spent as much money on Lucas than Chelsea on Hazard even though they could have bought him a few times before he left.
They should have bought him. Just like they should have spent the money needed to sign DembÃ©lÃ©. Or Corchia. Those guys are even important for the UEFA CL quotas.


----------



## Havre

Not sure what part is NOT valid, but I guess since it is written in caps you are correct and I'm wrong.

Yes. I said the *ONLY *difference between between France and England is opportunities.

You seem quite knowledgeable about football so I wouldn't mind having discussions with you, but this is getting ridiculous. If *EVERY *single time you respond to me you got to make up and/or exaggerate what I am saying for then to tell me I am blind etc. I don't really see much point in continuing.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> And now they want Naby Keita for 25Mâ‚¬+.
> While he was available for 1.5Mâ‚¬ when he was in France.




Do you really think Keita would be as good as he is today had he joined PSG 3 years ago?


----------



## Savi

Evilo said:


> Have you noticed Cavani is the best scorer in Europe? Wondering... Even Savi has shut his mouth




No I just haven't watched PSG lately


----------



## Evilo

Luiginho said:


> Do you really think Keita would be as good as he is today had he joined PSG 3 years ago?




No idea, but maybe he would have? He was quite the player at Istres.
But surely, L2 is not even scouted by PSG


----------



## Chimaera

I mean, 30 isn't awful for him in today's market. 

He's still quite young at 27, but I think his legs are done. Maybe in a league where pace isn't completely the biggest deal, (I would say Italy would be best for that) he could get comfortable again.

As far as Liverpool are concerned, the wish probably is that he would be willing to take the stupid money from China. But I don't think that's likely.


----------



## Havre

Chimaera said:


> I mean, 30 isn't awful for him in today's market.
> 
> He's still quite young at 27, but I think his legs are done. Maybe in a league where pace isn't completely the biggest deal, (I would say Italy would be best for that) he could get comfortable again.
> 
> As far as Liverpool are concerned, the wish probably is that he would be willing to take the stupid money from China. But I don't think that's likely.




30m isnÂ´t awful for a club with Qatar money, but for anyone else that is a horrible deal in my opinion.

No doubt he has the talent to be worth that kind of money (and a lot more), but then you got to "calculate" the likelihood that he will ever be back to his best.

Even fairly big clubs like Spurs and Arsenal havenÂ´t bought that many players for 30m+. Huge risk. For some reason there is always a club that seems willing to spend though (even on Rooney).


----------



## Ceremony

I'm surprised they don't just drop 40 million on Moussa Dembele


----------



## Burner Account

too many Dembeles


----------



## Evilo

PSG would be humiliated to buy Moussa DembÃ©lÃ© 40M€ after letting him go for nothing because they thought he wasn't good enough. Same for Coman.

So many mistakes in their player evaluation 
Apparently, if you're not south-american, you're not good enough.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> PSG would be humiliated to buy Moussa DembÃ©lÃ© 40Mâ‚¬ after letting him go for nothing because they thought he wasn't good enough. Same for Coman.
> 
> So many mistakes in their player evaluation
> Apparently, if you're not south-american, you're not good enough.




Didn't preven Man utd to throw 100M at Pogba


----------



## PeteWorrell

Luiginho said:


> Didn't preven Man utd to throw 100M at Pogba



Ferguson is not the man in charge anymore.


----------



## Evilo

Luiginho said:


> Didn't preven Man utd to throw 100M at Pogba




United has no ego


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> PSG would be humiliated to buy Moussa DembÃ©lÃ© 40Mâ‚¬ after letting him go for nothing because they thought he wasn't good enough. Same for Coman.
> 
> So many mistakes in their player evaluation
> Apparently, if you're not south-american, you're not good enough.




Speaking of South Americans. Doesn't L1 have a rule no more than 4 non EUs? How come PSG have so many south americans? Some have dual citizenship?


----------



## Evilo

Yep, most have dual citizenship.


----------



## Alex Jones

I have always been a huge fan of Sturridge, but he has no ability to create his own shots anymore. You have to feed him chances because of his immobility. With the right system he could score goals, but to me he's a better fit for MLS/China.


----------



## Prntscrn

Liverpool should put in a bid of Â£40 000 002 for Sanchez


----------



## les Habs

His contract is up in a year so that would be an overpayment and he's asking for massive wages. Besides, Liverpool need to make the CL first.

Edit:  Didn't see the "2" at the end there.


----------



## Savant

les Habs said:


> His contract is up in a year so that would be an overpayment and he's asking for massive wages. Besides, Liverpool need to make the CL first.
> 
> Edit:  Didn't see the "2" at the end there.




Liverpool with Sanchez really could win the league. It might be worth it to them. 

Sanchez-Firmino-Mane
Coutinho-Henderson-Lallana

Would be too much for most of the teams in the league. That frontline themselves gets 45-50 goals themselves


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Savant said:


> *Liverpool with Sanchez really could win the league. It might be worth it to them. *
> 
> Sanchez-Firmino-Mane
> Coutinho-Henderson-Lallana
> 
> Would be too much for most of the teams in the league. That frontline themselves gets 45-50 goals themselves




How can he play as CB?


----------



## Live in the Now

Sign van Dijk and the defensive problems are solved.

Sanchez isn't going to go to Liverpool though. He didn't want to go because of the location. First sign I got that he thinks he's Billy Bigshot, then all the other stuff came later.


----------



## Ceremony

Live in the Now said:


> Sign van Dijk and the defensive problems are solved.
> 
> Sanchez isn't going to go to Liverpool though. He didn't want to go because of the location. First sign I got that he thinks he's Billy Bigshot, then all the other stuff came later.




tbf Liverpool is a dump


----------



## Havre

Savant said:


> Liverpool with Sanchez really could win the league. It might be worth it to them.
> 
> Sanchez-Firmino-Mane
> Coutinho-Henderson-Lallana
> 
> Would be too much for most of the teams in the league. That frontline themselves gets 45-50 goals themselves




That is not a real life line-up IMO. I think today's lineup lacks defensive quality and you just made worse.

Sanchez would improve Pool of course, but not sure why you would spend more money in an area they are well set. That money should go towards two defenders, a cm and a forward.


----------



## Savant

Havre said:


> That is not a real life line-up IMO. I think today's lineup lacks defensive quality and you just made worse.
> 
> Sanchez would improve Pool of course, but not sure why you would spend more money in an area they are well set. That money should go towards two defenders, a cm and a forward.




Liverpool defend with their press. Everyone in there presses incredibly well and would be playing in their best positions. Liverpool will need to fix their defense but there aren't a whole lot of names connected yet. It will happen though.


----------



## Burner Account

Choosing London over Liverpool is pretty common isn't it?


----------



## bleedblue1223

kyle evs48 said:


> Choosing London over Liverpool is pretty common isn't it?




If Liverpool was a top contender for titles, then it wouldn't be.


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Liverpool with Sanchez really could win the league. It might be worth it to them.
> 
> Sanchez-Firmino-Mane
> Coutinho-Henderson-Lallana
> 
> Would be too much for most of the teams in the league. That frontline themselves gets 45-50 goals themselves




Put Coutinho in place of Lallana and Wijnaldum in place of Coutinho and it looks good.

Sanchez - Firmino - ManÃ©
Wijnaldum - Coutinho
Henderson​
Coutinho needs to shoot less and work more on creating space/passing to get back to his best form. He's become way too selfish. Lallana had a fine streak and probably will have a few but if we want to challenge for a title he's a squad player.

Though this is fantasy land because we're not getting Sanchez.


----------



## Savant

kyle evs48 said:


> Choosing London over Liverpool is pretty common isn't it?




Didn't Sanchez say he didn't like London recently? Or something along those lines about the city being too busy.


----------



## Havre

Savant said:


> Liverpool defend with their press. Everyone in there presses incredibly well and would be playing in their best positions. Liverpool will need to fix their defense but there aren't a whole lot of names connected yet. It will happen though.




DoesnÂ´t mean players donÂ´t have to tackle and understand how to position themselves defensively.

It is different being the first defender in such a setup and being the one that steps into the space that might be threatened if the press fails. Coutinho does the first thing well enough, but doesnÂ´t mean he would work in a central midfield role.


----------



## robertmac43

Alex Jones said:


> I have always been a huge fan of Sturridge, but he has no ability to create his own shots anymore. You have to feed him chances because of his immobility. With the right system he could score goals, but to me he's a better fit for MLS/China.




Sturridge and Giovinco sounds amazing to me!


----------



## YNWA14

Havre said:


> DoesnÂ´t mean players donÂ´t have to tackle and understand how to position themselves defensively.
> 
> It is different being the first defender in such a setup and being the one that steps into the space that might be threatened if the press fails. Coutinho does the first thing well enough, but doesnÂ´t mean he would work in a central midfield role.




Coutinho has played in a central midfield role in the past and did very well. Man of the match performances in a few cases where he had the most tackles of any player on the field. Most memorable being a match against City where he was everywhere and doing everything. He once commented that Rodgers saw him really as an 8 and that he would fit well into that role and it's true. He has the tenacity (or did). I think he's become a bit lazy and too selfish personally, but the attributes are there to be a fantastic CM.


----------



## Savant

Havre said:


> DoesnÂ´t mean players donÂ´t have to tackle and understand how to position themselves defensively.
> 
> It is different being the first defender in such a setup and being the one that steps into the space that might be threatened if the press fails. Coutinho does the first thing well enough, but doesnÂ´t mean he would work in a central midfield role.




I think Coutinho is best in a center midfield role. LCM in midfield 3 is his best spot


----------



## Havre

I still disagree. And I think you are exaggerating how good he has been when playing deeper for parts of games. You kind of got to wonder why he rarely plays there if he has been that good.

I mentioned Coutinho as an example of how the roles are different. Even if you argue Coutinho would be a no. 8 he would still be a very attacking minded midfield player. Lallana the same. And even if Henderson can play deeper as a playmaker he is also more of an "all action" midfield kind of guy. His greatest strength is not to balance a midfield (which IMO is one of the reasons why Liverpool gets cut open so often because Henderson and others just arenÂ´t disciplined enough in their positioning - even if they got the engine). Give Henderson a Kante or Wanyama so that he can roam and he is much more effective. Ask him to babysit Coutinho and Lallana and he wonÂ´t be.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Tevez is already rumored to leave china and go back to Argentina lol. Apparently he's not liking life in China.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Luiginho said:


> Tevez is already rumored to leave china and go back to Argentina lol. Apparently he's not liking life in China.




To be fair I'd hate to live in China too haha. Not a place I'd want to live in at all.


----------



## Luigi Habs

The Abusement Park said:


> To be fair I'd hate to live in China too haha. Not a place I'd want to live in at all.




Yeah but apparently it's the language and the food he's not getting used to. Well duh, what did he expect?


----------



## The Abusement Park

Luiginho said:


> Yeah but apparently it's the language and the food he's not getting used to. Well duh, what did he expect?




That's a big reason why I wouldn't want to live there haha, I'd have a lot of trouble adapting to their culture and language I would assume. Granted if I'm getting paid 700k a week I would try and make it work.


----------



## les Habs

Language wouldn't bother me. Get an interpreter. Food however would be a big deal. Again though, get a personal chef. The guy is how rich that it shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## Burner Account

The Abusement Park said:


> That's a big reason why I wouldn't want to live there haha, I'd have a lot of trouble adapting to their culture and language I would assume. *Granted if I'm getting paid 700k a week I would try and make it work.*




I would buy some Argentinians to come live with me


----------



## The Abusement Park

les Habs said:


> Language wouldn't bother me. Get an interpreter. Food however would be a big deal. Again though, get a personal chef. The guy is how rich that it shouldn't be an issue.




I mean culture is a big part of it too, if you aren't comfortable with how China is and how things go there there's no amount of money to fix that. Language and food are easy to fix but I can totally see how living in China culturally could be a real issue for a lot of people.


----------



## cgf

les Habs said:


> Language wouldn't bother me. Get an interpreter. Food however would be a big deal. Again though, get a personal chef. The guy is how rich that it shouldn't be an issue.




Plus it's not like chinese food isn't delicious; even if it is different from Argentinian cuisine...although even then it's not that far off; there's plenty of steak houses & Empanada's aren't far from many chinese deep fried pastries. Finding chimichurri sauce on the otherhand could be a challenge.


----------



## Burner Account

Shanghai is a financial center filled with Western expats who are also millionaires. There are probably all the comforts of the west there so I doubt amenities or food are issues.


----------



## bleedblue1223

There's obviously a big culture difference that many people think wouldn't be a big deal, but until you go through it, you wouldn't know and it affects everyone differently.

Even if Tevez just makes it half a season, he's still going to make a butt-load of cash.


----------



## The Abusement Park

kyle evs48 said:


> Shanghai is a financial center filled with Western expats who are also millionaires. There are probably all the comforts of the west there so I doubt amenities or food are issues.




I mean it's definitely a lot more western than it used to be, but I can absolutely understand why he'd be uncomfortable there.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Tevez is a world class ********. That's also that angle


----------



## The Abusement Park

East Coast Bias said:


> Tevez is a world class ********. That's also that angle




True dat


----------



## Alex Jones

Chinese food is greasy and unhealthy, not like he's losing out not eating it.


----------



## les Habs

Rakitic has renewed with BarÃ§a until 2021.


----------



## Live in the Now

Emre Can has almost a year remaining on his contract and wants 100k a week.

Think he's going to have to go, but I'm afraid he won't get that kind of money anywhere.


----------



## Havre

Alex Jones said:


> Chinese food is greasy and unhealthy, not like he's losing out not eating it.




All of it?

I used to live in Shanghai. Great great city. Certainly far better than Manchester (and London in my opinion). Only reason why I'm not still living there is the pollution. Food certainly isn't an issue even if I'm not exactly big on the local Shanghai cuisine (which is greasy).


----------



## Prntscrn

Live in the Now said:


> Emre Can has almost a year remaining on his contract and wants 100k a week.
> 
> Think he's going to have to go, but I'm afraid he won't get that kind of money anywhere.




Yeah if that's what he's demanding they will have to let him go. I could see him claim about 70k a week or something like that, that would be fair imo


----------



## Jeffrey

Live in the Now said:


> Emre Can has almost a year remaining on his contract and wants 100k a week.
> 
> Think he's going to have to go, but I'm afraid he won't get that kind of money anywhere.



To be fair he is not that far off worth 100k.
FSG are really cheap.


----------



## Havre

Jeffrey said:


> To be fair he is not that far off worth 100k.
> FSG are really cheap.




I find it very difficult to evaluate how much a player is "worth" in salary because where do you find trustworthy information on what players are paid?

http://sillyseason.com/football/fc-barcelona-players-salaries-69077/

http://sillyseason.com/football/real-madrid-players-salaries-69080/

http://sillyseason.com/football/fc-bayern-munich-players-salaries-69075/

I have no idea if those numbers are even close to reality, but if they are Can certainly isn't worth 100k.


----------



## YNWA14

Jeffrey said:


> To be fair he is not that far off worth 100k.
> FSG are really cheap.




lol what?

He might be worth half that. I'm glad that he's holding out for money though because he needs to go despite Klopp really liking him for some reason. If this forces the hand then I hope he asks for even more.


----------



## Havre

I randomly came across this yesterday. If true Can would be the third best paid player in Italy at 100k.

https://imgur.com/qPSw2xA


----------



## VEGASKING

Had Football Manager open when I saw this and these players in Italy all make at least 100k as of the original start of the game: Buffon, Alves, Mandzukic, De Rossi, Chiellini, Higuain, Marchisio, Bonucci, Jovetic, Hamsik, Pjanic, Dzeko, Icardi, Bacca, Kondogbia, Khedira and Salah. Mostly Juve players.

8 players on Liverpool make that much.


----------



## Luigi Habs

I always wondered if wages in Football Manager are real or if they just got them out of their ass


----------



## chasespace

Luiginho said:


> I always wondered if wages in Football Manager are real or if they just got them out of their ass




They probably have better information than the public so they're estimates would be better but they're still estimates.


----------



## Live in the Now

Lukaku is refusing to ever sign another contract with Everton and wants a transfer.


----------



## bleedblue1223

A return to Chelsea makes sense with how much we are linked to him and other strikers, the amount of links with Costa to other clubs, and the Batshuayi not impressing Conte.


----------



## Blender

bleedblue1223 said:


> A return to Chelsea makes sense with how much we are linked to him and other strikers, the amount of links with Costa to other clubs, and the Batshuayi not impressing Conte.




Yes please. Pretty much a perfect fit, especially if Costa goes to China for big money.


----------



## Power Man

So apprently Ghoulam wont renew with Napoli; also read he is going to replace his agent with Jorge ****ing Mendes

According to TMW (lol), Man City will prepare a bid but I don't know what to beileve


----------



## StatesideSensFan

turns out Lukaku didnt really say anything of the sort in his interview

the Echo is garbage
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...n-romelu-lukaku-interview-transcript-12748126


----------



## John Pedro

BarÃ§a already after Vinicius Jr (Flamengo)... here he's been labeled as the next Neymar by the media. He's the top scorer in Sudamericano u17. Only 16y old.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

John Pedro said:


> BarÃ§a already after Vinicius Jr (Flamengo)... here he's been labeled as the next Neymar by the media. He's the top scorer in Sudamericano u17. Only 16y old.




I saw him play for Brazil U17 against USA U17 a few months ago. I thought he was Brazil's standout player, and it was really noticeable that he was a lot better than his teammates. I can see the Neymar label.


----------



## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I saw him play for Brazil U17 against USA U17 a few months ago. I thought he was Brazil's standout player, and it was really noticeable that he was a lot better than his teammates. I can see the Neymar label.




He's head and shoulders above any u20 player in South America... He sure has some of Neymar/Ronaldinho in his game.


----------



## Savant

StatesideSensFan said:


> turns out Lukaku didnt really say anything of the sort in his interview
> 
> the Echo is garbage
> http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...n-romelu-lukaku-interview-transcript-12748126




How is the Echo garbage?

The person doing the interview here is the head Everton writer, for the paper that has the most coverage on Everton.


----------



## bleedblue1223

John Pedro said:


> He's head and shoulders above any u20 player in South America... He sure has some of Neymar/Ronaldinho in his game.




The most complex back pass in history lol.


----------



## Burner Account

StatesideSensFan said:


> turns out Lukaku didnt really say anything of the sort in his interview
> 
> the Echo is garbage
> http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...n-romelu-lukaku-interview-transcript-12748126




It might as well be true. I have a hard time seeing him staying there.


----------



## cgf

Have Juve triggered their option on Rodrigo Bentancur yet? If not are they expected to?


----------



## maclean

Really curious about how Pep's going to rehaul City (figure The Guardian's a pretty reliable source). Seems a constant theme that a wind of change needs to sweep out some of the aging ballast there and it looks like it may actually happen.


----------



## Evilo

Shocking ! Pepe is going to spend a boatload of money ! 
What woud be even more shocking would be that he spends it wisely.


----------



## Deficient Mode

City should find a competent sporting director and group of scouts instead of just handing the money to Pep. Too much responsibility for any manager to identify the right players to overhaul the entire roster.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Deficient Mode said:


> City should find a competent sporting director and group of scouts instead of just handing the money to Pep. Too much responsibility for any manager to identify the right players to overhaul the entire roster.




His boy has been TD for several years now. And Pep moving to City didn't happen overnight. 

That's why I find the "he inherited a terrible team" talk to be BS.


----------



## Deficient Mode

East Coast Bias said:


> His boy has been TD for several years now. And Pep moving to City didn't happen overnight.
> 
> That's why I find the "he inherited a terrible team" talk to be BS.




His boy isn't very good though. You think Pep was influencing City's roster choices for years when he was still at Bayern? Highly doubt it.


----------



## John Pedro

bleedblue1223 said:


> The most complex back pass in history lol.








cgf said:


> Have Juve triggered their option on Rodrigo Bentancur yet? If not are they expected to?




yep, but they've 'loaned' him to Boca 'till the end of the season. 9M fee.


----------



## cgf

John Pedro said:


> yep, but they've 'loaned' him to Boca 'till the end of the season. 9M fee.




Lame. Why does Juve have to own ever SA midfielder who interests me?


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> His boy isn't very good though. You think Pep was influencing City's roster choices for years when he was still at Bayern? Highly doubt it.




His boy did a pretty sweet job of re-loading the Citeh attack with Sane, Jesus & Moreno. If he can pull in a similar haul for the defense; they'll be a powerhouse sooner than later.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> His boy did a pretty sweet job of re-loading the Citeh attack with Sane, Jesus & Moreno. If he can pull in a similar haul for the defense; they'll be a powerhouse sooner than later.




They have spent a lot of money on defenders though, and apart from Stones, who is promising but obviously had a badly inflated price, they have largely wasted it. Full backs and midfield were ignored for too long as well. 

Their attack is very good and looks set to be very good in the future as well, but they can't get the ball into the right areas if the midfield and defense aren't doing their jobs.

I have no doubt that they will improve through their overhaul, but they will probably make some mistakes and overpay for some players again.


----------



## Edo

Manchester City was a champion. Pep just isn't that great of a manager. The City roster never needed overhauling. 

This new age of football with managers needing to overhaul squads and spend hundreds upon hundreds of millions to "compete" is ridiculous. 

Pep is ridiculous.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Edo said:


> Manchester City was a champion. Pep just isn't that great of a manager. The City roster never needed overhauling.
> 
> This new age of football with managers needing to overhaul squads and spend hundreds upon hundreds of millions to "compete" is ridiculous.
> 
> Pep is ridiculous.




Manchester City was a champion three years ago. The average age of that roster was 25.54. Not a single player from that roster under 25 is in the squad today. At the end of this season the average age of the squad will be almost 28. Aguero is the only key player left from that title-winning team still under the age of 30. 

There's plenty of room for criticism of how much City are spending, but the idea that the 2013-14 roster was going to cut it this year or for Pep's entire tenure at City is far more ridiculous than Pep.


----------



## maclean

Edo said:


> Manchester City was a champion. Pep just isn't that great of a manager. The City roster never needed overhauling.
> 
> This new age of football with managers needing to overhaul squads and spend hundreds upon hundreds of millions to "compete" is ridiculous.
> 
> Pep is ridiculous.




Even before Guardiola took over there was talk of how that team was a bunch of expensive players thrown together without much concept. Their performance has long been rather schizophrenic. The need for an overhaul seemed evident even before Pep was brought in so I don't think it's surprising, I don't think it can be attributed solely to him and I definitely don't think it's ridiuclous.


----------



## PeteWorrell

Edo said:


> Manchester City was a champion. Pep just isn't that great of a manager. The City roster never needed overhauling.
> 
> This new age of football with managers needing to overhaul squads and spend hundreds upon hundreds of millions to "compete" is ridiculous.
> 
> Pep is ridiculous.



Yaya TourÃ© was a key player and dominant force in those squads.At his age you can't say that he can still impact a game like he used to.


----------



## Blender

Pep's biggest failure this year is that he spent more money than anyone, but the team really hasn't improved overall in results compared with last year. Is he going to need to spend Â£600 million to 'fix' the club?


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Edo said:


> Manchester City was a champion. Pep just isn't that great of a manager. The City roster never needed overhauling.
> 
> This new age of football with managers needing to overhaul squads and spend hundreds upon hundreds of millions to "compete" is ridiculous.
> 
> Pep is ridiculous.




I find Pep to be one of those managers who isn't too flexible when speaking of systems, which makes him dependant on building a team with specific players. When he has acquired these specific players, that's when he will be able to do some real damage. And he hasn't even completed a full season for the team mate. 

Pep is still one of the best managers in the world. I'd be more worried about my own club if I were you.


----------



## Edo

TopKex said:


> I find Pep to be one of those managers who isn't too flexible when speaking of systems, which makes him dependant on building a team with specific players. When he has acquired these specific players, that's when he will be able to do some real damage. And he hasn't even completed a full season for the team mate.
> 
> Pep is still one of the best managers in the world. I'd be more worried about my own club if I were you.




His inability to win the CL with Bayern Munich is pretty damning. He had plenty of rest, an easy route, and he couldn't win. Ancelotti's Munich are better. What happens if Munich win the CL this year?

I have no doubts that Wenger would have CL's and multiple league titles had he left Arsenal. Not sure why he's even being brought into this.


----------



## Savi

Edo said:


> Ancelotti's Munich are better.




Better how? 

They're less dominant than with Pep, also when I watch them at times they're not as fun as they were before. Pep had these hybrid tactical formations that were always interesting to see, with Ancelotti it's more of a boring 442.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Edo said:


> His inability to win the CL with Bayern Munich is pretty damning. He had plenty of rest, an easy route, and he couldn't win. Ancelotti's Munich are better. What happens if Munich win the CL this year?
> 
> I have no doubts that Wenger would have CL's and multiple league titles had he left Arsenal. Not sure why he's even being brought into this.




When did he have an easy route with Bayern? If Munich wins the CL this year, luck with bounces, draws, and referee decisions will undoubtedly play a big part, as they do with nearly every CL title winner. When a huge match is decided over 90 or 180 minutes, upsets will happen, and a lot of luck will be involved. It's not like if they win the CL the year before and the year after Pep, with a different coach they would have won it every year in between as well. Or even have won it once.

In their case, it also helps that all of the top Spanish teams are having an off year compared to the past three.



Savi said:


> Better how?
> 
> They're less dominant than with Pep, also when I watch them at times they're not as fun as they were before. Pep had these hybrid tactical formations that were always interesting to see, with Ancelotti it's more of a boring 442.




They aren't better or more fun imo. None of the Bayern fans whose opinions I read or hear think this year's team is better than under Pep. More direct though and more of a typical top team that wins through individual superiority.


----------



## Ceremony

Edo said:


> Manchester City was a champion. Pep just isn't that great of a manager. The City roster never needed overhauling.
> 
> This new age of football with managers needing to overhaul squads and spend hundreds upon hundreds of millions to "compete" is ridiculous.
> 
> Pep is ridiculous.




The Manchester City squad at present is not capable of competing at the levels the owners and manager wants it to be.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Edo said:


> His inability to win the CL with Bayern Munich is pretty damning. He had plenty of rest, an easy route, and he couldn't win. Ancelotti's Munich are better. What happens if Munich win the CL this year?
> 
> I have no doubts that Wenger would have CL's and multiple league titles had he left Arsenal. *Not sure why he's even being brought into this. *




Because I interpreted it as you ****talking about nonsense. As DM said, City were champions in 2014, with plenty of key players in their prime. They went on to finish second in 2015 and fourth in 2016. I don't see how you can criticize Pep for improving the team during his first season. Losing GÃ¼ndogan to injury for basically the entire season is a pretty big loss. He still has some refurbishing of the back-line to do though.

And I too think Bayern were better under Pep.


----------



## Evilo

Losing Gundogan was also very much possible when he spent loads of money on him.

His investments have been pretty poor compared to the money spent. Only Gabriel Jesus and Leroy SanÃ© have given some good impact and they too were huge money investments.


----------



## Deficient Mode




----------



## Halladay

Means Griezmann is gone.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Losing Gundogan was also very much possible when he spent loads of money on him.
> 
> His investments have been pretty poor compared to the money spent. Only Gabriel Jesus and Leroy SanÃ© have given some good impact and they too were huge money investments.




When Moreno - Jesus - Sane combine to be one of the most deadly attacking trios in football in a couple of years...especially if they add a star striker for them to play around...they'll justify those outrageous transfer fees; just like Mbappe will if they can sign him this summer. 

Those transfers are much less problematic than the money they blew entirely on defenders.


----------



## Deficient Mode

BlameUtley said:


> Means Griezmann is gone.




Maybe. Or maybe Torres. Or maybe Simeone just likes to have a lot of options at striker. Like how they started 15/16 with Griezmann, Jackson, Vietto, and Torres.


----------



## Halladay

Deficient Mode said:


> Maybe. Or maybe Torres. Or maybe Simeone just likes to have a lot of options at striker. Like how they started 15/16 with Griezmann, Jackson, Vietto, and Torres.




I'm looking at it from an economical stand point. They are going to pony up for Lacazette and not sell Griezmann? Unless they are moving someone else for a large price.


----------



## Deficient Mode

BlameUtley said:


> I'm looking at it from an economical stand point. They are going to pony up for Lacazette and not sell Griezmann? Unless they are moving someone else for a large price.




They've shown a willingness to run a large transfer deficit in past summers. Spent 42.5M more last summer than they got from sales. We'll see.


----------



## Edo

Deficient Mode said:


> When did he have an easy route with Bayern? If Munich wins the CL this year, luck with bounces, draws, and referee decisions will undoubtedly play a big part, as they do with nearly every CL title winner. When a huge match is decided over 90 or 180 minutes, upsets will happen, and a lot of luck will be involved. It's not like if they win the CL the year before and the year after Pep, with a different coach they would have won it every year in between as well. Or even have won it once.
> 
> In their case, it also helps that all of the top Spanish teams are having an off year compared to the past three.
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't better or more fun imo. None of the Bayern fans whose opinions I read or hear think this year's team is better than under Pep. More direct though and more of a typical top team that wins through individual superiority.




Bayern always have an easy route. Barcelona/Madrid/Altetico have to play each other, and Sevilla/Valencia are no slouches either. Bayern Munich winning the CL just prior to Pep arriving, and then just after his departure, says lots. To me anyway. 

Diego Maradona could've coached Barcelona/Munich to titles. This notion that Pep is a genius and has a huge affect needs to die.


----------



## mmk786

City have needed new full backs for years. They have shockingly trotted out Clichy, Sagna, Kolarov and Zabaleta over the years. 

It's hard to understand why they have ignored the position for this long. This and Liverpool's insistence on not buying a left back are some of the more intriguing mysteries of the league.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Edo said:


> This notion that Pep is a genius and has a huge affect needs to die.




While I think Pep is a little overrated you still have to realize the guy is one of the best managers in the world right now.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Edo said:


> Diego Maradona could've coached Barcelona/Munich to titles. This notion that Pep is a genius and has a huge affect needs to die.




lol no, and no


----------



## cgf

Edo has just let EPL commentary warp his understanding of football too much. That's why he hates attractive football and loves stiff old-fashioned 'lob it into the box & hope' football.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

BlameUtley said:


> I'm looking at it from an economical stand point. They are going to pony up for Lacazette and not sell Griezmann? Unless they are moving someone else for a large price.




Not necessarily Atleti have the means to buy lacazette without having to sell Greizz. I doubt he leaves without Simeone.



cgf said:


> Edo has just let EPL commentary warp his understanding of football too much. That's why he hates attractive football and loves stiff old-fashioned 'lob it into the box & hope' football.




Edo just hates anything Barca related best not to take him serious.


----------



## Vipers31

TopKex said:


> I find Pep to be one of those managers who isn't too flexible when speaking of systems, which makes him dependant on building a team with specific players. When he has acquired these specific players, that's when he will be able to do some real damage. And he hasn't even completed a full season for the team mate.



It comes down to what you ultimately mean by system. I wouldn't use the term in that context, to be honest. Pep certainly has a clear basis of possession for how he approaches the game. If you have the ball, keep possession, if you do not, get it. In terms of what people more usually call "systems", I'd say Pep is one of the most flexible managers I've seen. The groundlying idea remains possession, but how he attempts to get it to work can come in very different forms. Particularly in regards to in-game adjustments of the systems, I haven't seen many more visibly flexible coaches. 



Edo said:


> Ancelotti's Munich are better.



So far, that's unquestionably incorrect.



Edo said:


> What happens if Munich win the CL this year?



Then we celebrate a title that even the greatest of teams sometimes don't win for a decade. 



Evilo said:


> Losing Gundogan was also very much possible when he spent loads of money on him.



I'd call GÃ¼ndogan quite the bargain. That was far from loads of money in today's market.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Vipers31 said:


> It comes down to what you ultimately mean by system. I wouldn't use the term in that context, to be honest. Pep certainly has a clear basis of possession for how he approaches the game. If you have the ball, keep possession, if you do not, get it. In terms of what people more usually call "systems", I'd say Pep is one of the most flexible managers I've seen. The groundlying idea remains possession, but how he attempts to get it to work can come in very different forms. Particularly in regards to in-game adjustments of the systems, I haven't seen many more visibly flexible coaches.
> 
> 
> So far, that's unquestionably incorrect.
> 
> 
> Then we celebrate a title that even the greatest of teams sometimes don't win for a decade.
> 
> 
> I'd call GÃ¼ndogan quite the bargain. That was far from loads of money in today's market.




^This is all very right

The part about GÃ¼ndogan as well. If he didn't have health issues, he would have either been sold for a lot more money (and earlier), or he would have gone to Bayern/Barca. Players of GÃ¼ndogan's class who don't have health concerns go for a lot more than ~â‚¬27M these days. Only perspective from which they overpaid is that GÃ¼ndogan only had one year left on his contract.


----------



## Evilo

Lol, paying more than 10M for someone who's always injured is pushing it.
If a team was paying 30M€ for Pastore they'd be crazy. And I can tell you when he plays, he's absolutely fantastic. But you have to be pragmatic.

But again, some people are trying to say City signs some bargains. I'll give that stat again : KDB cost more by himself than the whole Monaco starting XI.


----------



## Evilo

Sooooo PSG wants to buy MbappÃ© for 70-80M€...

LOL, he's out of your league guys 

Exactly what I find stupid in PSG's transfer policy. They have the best pool of young players to dip in, and they went for guys like Lucas and ignored the DembÃ©lÃ© or the MbappÃ©s until they're worth too much money anyway.
Absolutely no anticipation.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Guess there's some talk of Ross Barkley joining Spurs next year.


----------



## hatterson

spintheblackcircle said:


> Guess there's some talk of Ross Barkley joining Spurs next year.




I've never understood the obsession with Barkley from basically all of England.


----------



## East Coast Bias

hatterson said:


> I've never understood the obsession with Barkley from basically all of England.




I'm with you there.

He's so massively overrated.


----------



## hatterson

Schweinsteiger going to MLS. Signing with Chicago Fire.


----------



## Burner Account

hatterson said:


> I've never understood the obsession with Barkley from basically all of England.




England obsessed with English player


----------



## Blender

kyle evs48 said:


> England obsessed with English player




Well every club needs homegrown players, so every one that is actually good enough to play is at a premium.


----------



## John Pedro

Evilo said:


> Sooooo PSG wants to buy MbappÃ© for 70-80Mâ‚¬...
> 
> LOL, he's out of your league guys
> 
> Exactly what I find stupid in PSG's transfer policy. They have the best pool of young players to dip in, and they went for guys like Lucas and ignored the DembÃ©lÃ© or the MbappÃ©s until they're worth too much money anyway.
> Absolutely no anticipation.




MbappÃ© doesn't look like a good fit at winger and PSG already has Cavani at CF so he doesn't make much sense besides the fact that he's really good and has some serious potential.

Now, Ousmane DembÃ©lÃ© would be amazing with Draxler and Cavani.


----------



## sjsharks92

hatterson said:


> Schweinsteiger going to MLS. Signing with Chicago Fire.




Glad to have him in the States.


----------



## VEGASKING

spintheblackcircle said:


> Guess there's some talk of Ross Barkley joining Spurs next year.




But I just read on espn he is going to be part of the overhaul of Arsenal this summer along with Mbappe, Reus and Gaya


----------



## Evilo




----------



## cgf

VEGASKING said:


> But I just read on espn he is going to be part of the overhaul of Arsenal this summer along with Mbappe, Reus and Gaya




Nah, they're going to chase Tolisso instead...


----------



## Evilo

Some rumors here say that Bayern, United, Real and Inter have inquired about Bernardo Silva. Monaco asks for 80M€.


----------



## Havre

Blender said:


> Well every club needs homegrown players, so every one that is actually good enough to play is at a premium.




Kind of odd that Spurs could very well have 5 players in the English national team's starting line-up:

Walker
Rose
Dier (not considered home grown because he grew up in Portugal)
Alli
Kane

But still they might actually run out of home grown players.

As it stands they got Walker, Rose, Alli (will soon turn 21 - not sure if he is considered under 21 or not next year), Kane, Davies, Trippier and Winks (same as with Alli).

So even Spurs with such a significant imprint on the English national team is struggling to find enough English talent if they want to have a full 25 man squad.

Therefore you end up with players like Barkely and Fabian Delph being highly valuable. It makes more sense with Barkely than Zaha I guess - who has also been linked to Spurs lately.

If this in the end benefits England I'm not so sure. He is a key player for Everton, but right now he would be on the bench for Spurs. Not that I can see Spurs paying 50m (or whatever) on a guy who would basically be Eriksen's back-up. Even if they spent a ridiculous amount of money on Sissoko.


----------



## Vipers31

Evilo said:


> Some rumors here say that Bayern, United, Real and Inter have inquired about Bernardo Silva. Monaco asks for 80Mâ‚¬.




How would you characterize those rumors, do they seem believable to you? Would you think he's realistic/likely to leave at price like / near that?


----------



## Peen

Nainggolan told the media that if the premier league gives him the money he wants then he'll come and that conte has already been in contact

We really need a new right wing back


----------



## Deficient Mode

Peen said:


> Nainggolan told the media that if the premier league gives him the money he wants then he'll come and that conte has already been in contact
> 
> We really need a new right wing back




Seems to me that Chelsea could use another central midfielder as well.


----------



## Evilo

Vipers31 said:


> How would you characterize those rumors, do they seem believable to you? Would you think he's realistic/likely to leave at price like / near that?




Frankly, a lot of it depends on Monaco. If they can sell Martial for 70Mâ‚¬ (which will be the fee in the end), I can understand why they want more for Bernardo, Lemar and MbappÃ©.
Also depending on what Monaco achieves this season. Players are tax free, well paid and in a marvelous situation. They'll move if they think they can start for a bigger team, but what if Monaco wins everything this year?
Also with a year to go before the WC, many won't move because they don't want to be a backup somewhere.
So I'm really not sure Bernardo moves, but if he does, it'll cost a fortune indeed.
As for which team, he hasn't given much of a hint of where he'd like to go, but since he's portugese, you can expect Spain to be his 1st priority (that's just me guessing however).
But does he go to Real to face the competition of Bale or move to a team where he could start but still bigger than Monaco or does he stay put for at least another year and enjoy the life of Mediterrean sun, offensive football, and championships?

If Monaco had more fans, they could take the next step and move among the best teams in the world. But they don't. And at some point, players will want to move.


----------



## Vipers31

Evilo said:


> Frankly, a lot of it depends on Monaco. If they can sell Martial for 70Mâ‚¬ (which will be the fee in the end), I can understand why they want more for Bernardo, Lemar and MbappÃ©.
> Also depending on what Monaco achieves this season. Players are tax free, well paid and in a marvelous situation. They'll move if they think they can start for a bigger team, but what if Monaco wins everything this year?
> Also with a year to go before the WC, many won't move because they don't want to be a backup somewhere.
> So I'm really not sure Bernardo moves, but if he does, it'll cost a fortune indeed.
> As for which team, he hasn't given much of a hint of where he'd like to go, but since he's portugese, you can expect Spain to be his 1st priority (that's just me guessing however).
> But does he go to Real to face the competition of Bale or move to a team where he could start but still bigger than Monaco or does he stay put for at least another year and enjoy the life of Mediterrean sun, offensive football, and championships?
> 
> If Monaco had more fans, they could take the next step and move among the best teams in the world. But they don't. And at some point, players will want to move.




Sounds all very reasonable. I guess it's something to keep tabs on, without holding one's breath.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

http://www.sport-english.com/en/noticias/barca/rac1-contact-between-isco-and-barcelona-5916669

Please make it happen


----------



## bleedblue1223

Deficient Mode said:


> Seems to me that Chelsea could use another central midfielder as well.




Reports are they are going after Bakayoko. Balague reported that we've agreed to terms with him and Lâ€™Equipe, we've made a 38m euro bid + another 5m in add-ons. There's enough smoke there to believe he's a serious target.


----------



## Power Man

*Evilo*


Looks like Ghezzal is going to join Monaco

Can you confirm?


----------



## Evilo

I read that as well a few months ago. Not sure if they're still interested however. Ghezzal has been pretty horrible this year.

As for Bakayoko, lots of teams want him. But again, a wise move for him would be to stay put for another year. He's now established on the french NT depth chart and a move out could hurt his status and playing time.

Right now Monaco players are the cream of Europe. They're both fun to watch and producing. A year before the WC, it will take massive offers for them to move out and risk that status.


----------



## Power Man

Evilo said:


> I read that as well a few months ago. Not sure if they're still interested however. Ghezzal has been pretty horrible this year.
> 
> As for Bakayoko, lots of teams want him. But again, a wise move for him would be to stay put for another year. He's now established on the french NT depth chart and a move out could hurt his status and playing time.
> 
> Right now Monaco players are the cream of Europe. They're both fun to watch and producing. A year before the WC, it will take massive offers for them to move out and risk that status.




Saw this recent touite earlier today

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/844553705429094400


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Havre said:


> Kind of odd that Spurs could very well have 5 players in the English national team's starting line-up:
> 
> Walker
> Rose
> Dier (not considered home grown because he grew up in Portugal)
> Alli
> Kane
> 
> But still they might actually run out of home grown players.
> 
> As it stands they got Walker, Rose, Alli (will soon turn 21 - not sure if he is considered under 21 or not next year), Kane, Davies, Trippier and Winks (same as with Alli).
> 
> So even Spurs with such a significant imprint on the English national team is struggling to find enough English talent if they want to have a full 25 man squad.
> 
> Therefore you end up with players like Barkely and Fabian Delph being highly valuable. It makes more sense with Barkely than Zaha I guess - who has also been linked to Spurs lately.
> 
> If this in the end benefits England I'm not so sure. He is a key player for Everton, but right now he would be on the bench for Spurs. Not that I can see Spurs paying 50m (or whatever) on a guy who would basically be Eriksen's back-up. Even if they spent a ridiculous amount of money on Sissoko.




You forgot Cameron Carter-Vickers and Josh Onomah who are full time first team players. I think Kyle Walker-Peters and Marcus Edwards will also join their first team full time next season. I don't think Spurs is a good example. They have a lot of young English talent and use a number of them. A team like Chelsea might be a better example for the point you are making.


----------



## Havre

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> You forgot Cameron Carter-Vickers and Josh Onomah who are full time first team players. I think Kyle Walker-Peters and Marcus Edwards will also join their first team full time next season. I don't think Spurs is a good example. They have a lot of young English talent and use a number of them. A team like Chelsea might be a better example for the point you are making.




Not forgetting them. They are not counting towards the 8 as long as they are under 21.

Not that you necessarily need 8. But even Spurs could quite quickly run out of quality home grown players. Doesn't take much.


----------



## Evilo

They don't need homegrown players in Europe anyway given their performances


----------



## Prntscrn

Jonas Olsson(WBA) might be heading to DjurgÃ¥rden

Isaksson - Olsson - KÃ¤llstrÃ¶m


----------



## les Habs

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> http://www.sport-english.com/en/noticias/barca/rac1-contact-between-isco-and-barcelona-5916669
> 
> Please make it happen




 No.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

les Habs said:


> No.




Why not he's a world class talent. It's not his fault Madrid are using him like a fiat.


----------



## cgf

Speaking of silky midfielders that real has been squandering...is there any news about Kovacec moving this summer?

And Evilo, have there been any rumors of clubs coming in to raid Nice after this magical season they're having?


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> Speaking of silky midfielders that real has been squandering...is there any news about Kovacec moving this summer?
> 
> And Evilo, have there been any rumors of clubs coming in to raid Nice after this magical season they're having?



Not really. If Nice catches the CL (more than likely, but there's a preliminary round first), they should keep most of the core, except for Balotelli (booted out) and maybe Belhanda.
Some teams would be wise to buy their young talent, but again, those guys are better off staying one more year with Nice and play the CL as starters rather than ride the bench at PSG or Monaco.


----------



## Peen

What do you think of Ricardo Pereira?


----------



## Evilo

Peen said:


> What do you think of Ricardo Pereira?



He's been really good.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Ricardo Pereira is Porto's property, they'd most likely be more than happy to have him back. 

Man City and Man Utd are rumored to be after Anotnio Rudiger of AS Roma.


----------



## cgf

Has Rudiger suddenly grown a brain? He's got amazing physical gifts, and isn't entirely skill-less; but he dumb.


----------



## Luigi Habs

From the games I've seen him he mostly was playing RB. I personally don't think he'd succeed with either.


----------



## Evilo

Thought he was horrible against Lyon.


----------



## Corto

cgf said:


> Speaking of silky midfielders that real has been squandering...is there any news about Kovacec moving this summer?




Kovacic?

Apparently PSG and Napoli have asked about him.

If Isco stays in Madrid, I doubt he (Kovacic) stays. 
Modric still has 2 or so years at this peak left (hopefully), I don't think that Real can afford to have both of them (Kovacic and Isco) on the bench.

It has to be frustrating for those guys...
Kovacic was Real's best player in their win vs Sociedad (goal and an assist), got one start since then (with Isco, fantastic assist for Isco's goal) and than again nothing since.

I mean, you can't blame Zidane for playing Modric and Kroos as much as he can as La Liga is so competitive, but you can understand if these boys want to leave to play as starters somewhere else.


----------



## Power Man

We have too many attacking MF's.

And it's hard no to start Luka and Kroos, but since we love injuries, having Isco and James is quite handy lol

Isco has been playing better lately; he used to hold onto the ball for too long but you can tell he has really improved on his decision making

Keeping or letting Kovacic go is tricky; he has always been great for us and he is younger than Modric


----------



## John Pedro

Lyanco's been sold to Torino, 6M + 2M addons. Really promising CB, strong, fast, kinda reminds me of prime Lucio, has dual citizenship (Serbian and Brazilian), too.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

FWIW Barca's offered Isco to join them once his contract is up (1 more year left)


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Power Man said:


> Isco has been playing better lately; he used to hold onto the ball for too long but you can tell he has really *improved on his decision making*




That's pretty evident seeing how he's gonna choose barca over Madrid this time.


----------



## Power Man

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> That's pretty evident seeing how he's gonna choose barca over Madrid this time.


----------



## cgf

I suppose if Isco (and Hamez) leave it would make sense for Kovacic to stick around as the primary back up to Modric & Kroos, and the eventual replacement for one of them. But he really should be playing a lot more than he is...it makes it hard for me not to wonder how differently things would stand right now if he had joined BVB last summer. That spot is their biggest need and he'd get plenty of PT under Tuchel to continue to grow.



Evilo said:


> Not really. If Nice catches the CL (more than likely, but there's a preliminary round first), they should keep most of the core, except for Balotelli (booted out) and maybe Belhanda.
> Some teams would be wise to buy their young talent, but again, those guys are better off staying one more year with Nice and play the CL as starters rather than ride the bench at PSG or Monaco.




Surprised bigger/richer teams aren't circling around those young midfielders. Cyprien seems like exactly the type of player richer clubs would swoop in for after a season like this one; Walter leaves a good impression most times that I've seen him & has just two seasons left on his deal; and Koziello has shown some truly spectacular skill & creativity, which combined with not being any every match starter & having just 1 year left on his contract, would make me think he could be looking at a move as well...I'm still hoping that BMG can pull the little frenchman in if they don't snag someone like Amiri or Barkok instead.

Seri is a quality player to, even if he isn't as young as those first three. 

With CL football, a great coach to learn under, and PT to be had; I wouldn't expect them all to flee. But I am surprised that there aren't a ton of clubs testing the club's resolve to keep those kids, and seeing 1 or 2 sold after a season like this one seems like the way this story usually goes.



Luiginho said:


> From the games I've seen him he mostly was playing RB. I personally don't think he'd succeed with either.




I know he's been playing RB, where he doesn't have to think as much and can get by more on just his running; but he's still so dumb out there. I'd hate to see him ever on the pitch for the NT, because he'd be a massive weak point in our possession that cheaply ended many attacking movements...nevermind the goals we'd likely leak due to his stupidity.


----------



## Disclose

watching bolivia vs colombia and just mentioned "breaking news" Messi not comming back to barca next season.

im not really following tfootball transfers but any rumors where he could end? or are they jut talking ****.


----------



## Vipers31

Disclose said:


> watching bolivia vs colombia and just mentioned "breaking news" Messi not comming back to barca next season.
> 
> im not really following tfootball transfers but any rumors where he could end? or are they jut talking ****.




Considering that the only source so far is some non-specified South American TV station, I'd put the odds of it being bull**** at somewhere north of 99%.

If not, he's obviously looking to fulfill his secret life-long dream of playing next to his idol, the one and only, Thomas MÃ¼ller in Munich.


----------



## John Pedro

Disclose said:


> watching bolivia vs colombia and just mentioned "breaking news" Messi not comming back to barca next season.
> 
> im not really following tfootball transfers but any rumors where he could end? or are they jut talking ****.




Messi to Guangzhou Evergrande E5


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Dortmund was linked with Semedo recently. I think that would be a good transfer.


----------



## Disclose

yeah. i think its a commercial for el clasico.... lmao.


----------



## Corto

Croatian papers are reporting that Mourinho is in Croatia to try and secure signing Ivan Perisic from Inter Milan.
Starting price is rumored to be around 30m pounds.

EDIT: Apparently, the original article is from The Sun, so take it for what it's worth....


----------

