# Federal Hockey League..."the silence is deafening"...



## paul-laus

Is it safe to say that the longer we go on with zero announcements from the FHL the greater the likelihood that they're done after three years? I remember reading late in the season that the Privateers were having arena issues in Lewistown. If they drop out, this would leave Dayton (still playing in Hara), Danville, and Danbury. Not much to work with and nothing in terms of rumblings for expansion. Looks like they could be joining the Mid-Atlantic Hockey League, All-American Hockey League, and the EPHL as failed single A leagues of the last five years. I really do wish that Danbury could get a legitimate arena constructed as they do have a rabid fan base for hockey there as evidenced via the Trashers and now the Whalers.


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## JungleJON

I believe the Privateers played in Watertown, NY this past season. Some of the remaining teams have announced season tickets are on sale for next season. They might be waiting to see what cities are left after the dust settles in the AHL & ECHL - look for some franchises to be on the move this summer.


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## LadyStanley

Got an email from them today (see free agent camp for subject).


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## paul-laus

SenorChifles said:


> I believe the Privateers played in *Watertown, NY *this past season. Some of the remaining teams have announced season tickets are on sale for next season. They might be waiting to see what cities are left after the dust settles in the AHL & ECHL - look for some franchises to be on the move this summer.




You're right. My bad. My point though was that there was ongoing issues with the team and arena management in regards to costs associated with keeping the arena as a viable option with the team.


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## JungleJON

If I can remember from past newspaper articles, the mayor and city council approved upgrades (though minor) to the local rink. The pursued the team to get them to move to Watertown. Unless this is recent info. have not seen any articles posted on Oursportscentral.com from the team or the city.


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## JeffNYI

paul-laus said:


> Is it safe to say that the longer we go on with zero announcements from the FHL the greater the likelihood that they're done after three years?




This is a league that forms expansion teams *mid-season*.

Whatever they say now means nothing. Whatever they don't say now means nothing.


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## No Fun Shogun

Wouldn't be surprised if they fold, and wouldn't be surprised if they hurriedly announced a schedule with new teams in place a mere week before the season started with no prior warning.

That's just the type of beast the FHL is...


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## Rangers79

They were having problems a year ago when I worked with the Outlaws. It's all in fighting and bs. How they didn't shut down after their 1st year is beyond me.


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## wildhairyguy

Saw a twitter update today from one of the Danbury owners - apparently season tickets sales are quite brisk after they won the championship....league is quite a **** show.....


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## SPORTSMANIAC

I had a friend with contacts throughout hockey promoting the FHL Free Agent Camp on Facebook...I commented saying the FHL is a beer league. A couple of people responded including one Andrew Richards who says he doesn't know too many beer leagues that pay out 2 millions to coaches and players. I fired back asking how the Williamsport experiment, and how two teams can be owned by one person and a third be owned by the commissioners daughter and a few other things. Waiting to hear a response back


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## No Fun Shogun

Well, beer league is a bit of an insult, but I have a hard time imagining that the payroll for staff and players was $2 million.


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## SemireliableSource

For the entire league, I could see it. The average SPHL budget is $1.2 M so I could see a six (four) team league having payroll north of $2 M.


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## Lefty9420

I know someone who played the FHL for about 5 games a few years ago as a goalie before he had enough. He said his contract was for $175 per week, or $25 a day...


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## CrazyEddie20

FrancoRussianAlaskan said:


> For the entire league, I could see it. The average SPHL budget is $1.2 M so I could see a six (four) team league having payroll north of $2 M.





WRONG AGAIN!

Using a calculator may help. Let's go through this step-by-step.

Start with $2,000,000.

Now, the claim was that the $2M was paid out to players and coaches, so let's low-ball the coaches' salaries and say they each make $25,000 a year. In a six team league, that leaves $1,850,000 per year for player salaries.

Divided equally amongst the six teams, that suggests that player payroll is $308,333.33/season. The FHL had a 23 week season last year. Divided evenly among each of the 23 weeks, that makes the weekly payroll in a six team FHL $13,405.80 - right around the ECHL's weekly cap number. I doubt that any FHL club save maybe Danbury pulls in enough money weekly to cover that kind of payroll, not to mention league dues, insurance, travel costs, etc.

But hey, coaches might make more that that, right? Ok, let's do this again, assuming that coaches make $45,000. That makes the coaches' salary pool $270,000 and the players salary pool $1,730,000 - broken down among six teams, that's $288,333.33/season and $12,536/week.

Any coach that is making $45,000 in the FHL has a great agent or works for an idiot. A shaved chimp could coach a team in this league and no one would know the difference.

This $2,000,000/season claim is patently absurd. I'd maybe believe $2,000,000 total in player and coaches' salaries paid over the life of the league - but only maybe, since we all know that the FHL isn't good about paying anyone on time. Just because money is owed doesn't mean it has been paid, and the law certainly doesn't view money owed as income or having been "paid out." (_See Generally_ Hornung v. Commissioner, 47 T. C. 428 (T. C. 1967) (holding that a car awarded to a professional football player in 1961 was not taxable as income for 1961 because the player did not actually receive the vehicle until 1962.)


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## Cornwall OHL

Lefty9420 said:


> I know someone who played the FHL for about 5 games a few years ago as a goalie before he had enough. He said his contract was for $175 per week, or $25 a day...




Do you know if he was on one of the travel teams? New York Blue Fins, Delaware Federals, or the other one?


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## Qward

Just asked my friend what he made playing in the FHL. $225/week with some bonuses. Bonuses are not big.


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## paul-laus

Latest Federal Hockey League release:

Quote- "Our expansion draft scheduled for May 31st, will not be held this season due to no new franchises being added to the league at this time..."

So they're going ahead with 4 teams for next season. Congratulations FHL! You've now hit rock bottom....


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## Sniper45

SPORTSMANIAC said:


> I had a friend with contacts throughout hockey promoting the FHL Free Agent Camp on Facebook...I commented saying the FHL is a beer league. A couple of people responded including one *Andrew Richards who says he doesn't know too many beer leagues that pay out 2 millions to coaches and players*. I fired back asking how the Williamsport experiment, and how two teams can be owned by one person and a third be owned by the commissioners daughter and a few other things. Waiting to hear a response back




Yeah that 2 million figure is for the total payout the past 3 seasons, the league likes to put stuff like that out in news releases to legitimize what they do


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## Gerin

paul-laus said:


> Latest Federal Hockey League release:
> 
> Quote- "Our expansion draft scheduled for May 31st, will not be held this season due to no new franchises being added to the league at this time..."
> 
> So they're going ahead with 4 teams for next season. Congratulations FHL! You've now hit rock bottom....




So does that mean they have to have some sort of import law? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I remember hearing when u have under 6 teams here some sort of import rule?


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## JeffNYI

Gerin said:


> So does that mean they have to have some sort of import law? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I remember hearing when u have under 6 teams here some sort of import rule?




U.S. Immigration seems to use 6 teams as a magic threshold in order to grant visas.

I don't know if it's cast in stone by law or is just a general policy.. but you're right that it could be an issue for the FHL getting Canadian players if they're gonna go with 4 teams..


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## SemireliableSource

They're consulting immigration lawyers trying to find a way around it.


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## LadyStanley

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=51483251

Sounds like you're talking about H-2B visas.


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## Kapn Kaveman

*Another Lawsuit?*

http://thejuniorhockeynews.com/?p=15598


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## Cornwall OHL

I noticed in their news piece that 1000 Islands is called Watertown: FHL


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## MonsterSurge

Hopefully this joke of a league goes away.


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## JB51Hockey

2013-14 Schedule Released: http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/leagueschedule.html?leagueid=1018&seasonid=11226


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## No Fun Shogun

Well at least that means we know none of the four remaining teams went belly-up without notice.


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## Francis10

I see in their Free Agent camp, the guys they signed were 3rd or 4th liners from Junior A Teir 2 teams or NCAA Div 3 schools. Not very good numbers when I looked them up on hockeydb.


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## Cacciaguida

I really hope at least Danbury can get an arena and move onto the SPHL or ECHL or something. Clearly hockey works there.


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## MonsterSurge

Cacciaguida said:


> I really hope at least Danbury can get an arena and move onto the SPHL or ECHL or something. Clearly hockey works there.




Do you realize how far Danbury is from other SPHL teams? The closest team would be over 10 hours.


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## iamjs

If they went to the ECHL, the closest teams would be Elmira (3.5-4 hrs), Reading (3.5-4 hrs), and Wheeling (5.5 hrs), which actually seems like the standard for the three teams in the Atlantic Divison.


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## Francis10

iamjs said:


> If they went to the ECHL, the closest teams would be Elmira (3.5-4 hrs), Reading (3.5-4 hrs), and Wheeling (5.5 hrs), which actually seems like the standard for the three teams in the Atlantic Divison.




That wouldn't be to bad. Danbury deserves something better than this league.


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## jabberoski

Francis10 said:


> That wouldn't be to bad. Danbury deserves something better than this league.




Problem is, with their current arena situation, they can't really do much better than the FHL.


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## Francis10

jabberoski said:


> Problem is, with their current arena situation, they can't really do much better than the FHL.




3000 isn't good enough for East Coast? What do they require? 5000?


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## adsfan

No more Akwesane? I heard that was an island that you had to pay a toll to access because it is tribal land.


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## CrazyEddie20

adsfan said:


> No more Akwesane? I heard that was an island that you had to pay a toll to access because it is tribal land.




That is correct - although if you are a member of the tribe, you are exempt from the toll.


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## CrazyEddie20

Francis10 said:


> 3000 isn't good enough for East Coast? What do they require? 5000?




There is no requirement per se, but the Danbury Ice Arena is not a sufficient facility.


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## alkurtz

To bad, having been to the Danbury arena many times over the last decade for all the teams in all the leagues that Danbury has participated in (Trashers, Mad Hatters, Whalers), I can honestly say that it has always been fun and the fans passionate.

Though I am an NHL fan who hardly ever misses a Ranger game on cable, and though the difference in skill levels is evident from the first drop of the puck, it is still hockey, still competitive, still enjoyable.

It will be a shame that, if the FHL doesn't survive, Danbury would be out in the cold without a team. Though there was talk a few years ago about a new arena capable of hosted ECHL hockey, that seems to have died away. The current arena is really not up to EPHL standards, and unless the league becomes desperate to find a home for a team that will draw 1500-2500 per game, I don't see a move to the EPHL in the offing.


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## sabremike

CrazyEddie20 said:


> There is no requirement per se, but the Danbury Ice Arena is not a sufficient facility.




I've never fully understood that rationale. If you can get 3,000+ fans to support a team on a regular basis who cares if the DIA is basically a glorified rec rink? If the team can pay the bills and be viable isn't that what should count?


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## Sports Enthusiast

Francis10 said:


> 3000 isn't good enough for East Coast? What do they require? 5000?




Well they let Elmira in who barely seats 4K. I'm gunna guess the team is nowhere near profitable, hence the recent problems


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## jhskier

My home ice rink, the Connellsville Ice Mine is hosting a neutral site game between Danville and Watertown on March 22nd. For those wondering, Connellsville is 50 miles south of Pittsburgh. It seems this is an attempt to promote expansion of the league. I would be very excited to have a team here, but I just don't think there would be enough fan interest to support it.


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## Sniper45

jhskier said:


> My home ice rink, the Connellsville Ice Mine is hosting a neutral site game between Danville and Watertown on March 22nd. For those wondering, Connellsville is 50 miles south of Pittsburgh. It seems this is an attempt to promote expansion of the league. I would be very excited to have a team here, but I just don't think there would be enough fan interest to support it.




Have you ever seen an FHL game? You will quickly understand why fans will lose interest. 

I feel sorry for any potential city that the FHL attempts to expand too, the city of Williamsport is still dealing with the aftermath!


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Sniper45 said:


> Have you ever seen an FHL game? You will quickly understand why fans will lose interest.
> 
> I feel sorry for any potential city that the FHL attempts to expand too, the city of Williamsport is still dealing with the aftermath!




Williamsport, was/is in its position, Sniper, bc it's bad ownership, and an outdoor arena didn't help matters


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## DarkKnight27

jhskier said:


> My home ice rink, the Connellsville Ice Mine is hosting a neutral site game between Danville and Watertown on March 22nd. For those wondering, Connellsville is 50 miles south of Pittsburgh. It seems this is an attempt to promote expansion of the league. I would be very excited to have a team here, but I just don't think there would be enough fan interest to support it.




this might be an.....interesting game?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...-coaches-battle-announcer-233703390--nhl.html


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## Sniper45

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> Williamsport, was/is in its position, Sniper, bc it's bad ownership, and an outdoor arena didn't help matters




Exactly......but the league itself was heavily involved with promoting the outdoor venue and contributed greatly to why the team defaulted on payments. The league promised to subsidize a large portion of the expense, thinking this "gimmick" would bring huge crowds to every game, it didn't pan out and the league stiffed the team owners on several bills.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

you're also forgetting about Winston-Salem, Sniper


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