# C Elias Pettersson - Växjö Lakers HC, SHL (2017, 5th, VAN) Part 2



## g00n

continued from http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1905651


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## Siludin

he dope


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## GetFocht

90 point potential player


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## Elias Pettersson

i heard he can play hockey well


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## CanaFan

PorscheDesign said:


> 90 point potential player




Seems a rather random number. Why not 100 pts? Or 80 pts?
Why 90 specifically?


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## CanaFan

Adding to above, I don't think any players from 2017 have 90 point potential, including Pettersson, Hischier, and Patrick. 90 pts would surpass every player in the league except McDavid. No one in this draft has 90 pt potential unless they take a big (and unexpected) step forward in their D+1. 90 pt potential is the realm of guys like Matthews and maybe Draisaitl. They aren't available in every draft and odds would suggest no one in 2017 will ever hit 90 points unless league scoring levels inflate drastically in the coming years.


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## BROCK HUGHES

PorscheDesign said:


> 90 point potential player



If ya got the horses for him to play with,,we have a bunch of what if,s right now..he looks like a good pick otherwise.


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## Yultron

CanaFan said:


> Adding to above, I don't think any players from 2017 have 90 point potential, including Pettersson, Hischier, and Patrick. 90 pts would surpass every player in the league except McDavid. No one in this draft has 90 pt potential unless they take a big (and unexpected) step forward in their D+1. 90 pt potential is the realm of guys like Matthews and maybe Draisaitl. They aren't available in every draft and odds would suggest no one in 2017 will ever hit 90 points unless league scoring levels inflate drastically in the coming years.




Eichel too you can't forget him


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## CanaFan

Yultron said:


> Eichel too you can't forget him




Ya wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list but more to give the "quality" of player that has 90 point potential. But I agree Eichel is one of those (and they are few).


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## lawrence

PorscheDesign said:


> 90 point potential player




You don't have to say this 5 times. 

In order for him to even reach that once, he needs like at least a 75 point linemate and a 50 point dman that shares the ice with him on a regular basis, kinda like when the sedins had ehrhoff. Not to mention another 40 point dman, as he needs to be sharing the ice with an offensive dman that has a very very very high zone entry from defensive end to offensive end and of course high end offensice skills that help with generating actual offence for him to reach the 90 point mark. 

So,that's my 2 cent and I think those will be a requirements for him to hit 90. 

Or if we somehow added Crosby or eichel or Kane and our them on the same line.


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## Grantham

PorscheDesign said:


> 90 point potential player




Why do you hate Pettersson so much? Why are you trying to set him him up for failure?

And I sincerely ask this as a Canucks fan who loves him as a player.


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## BoDacious Horvat

Grantham said:


> Why do you hate Pettersson so much? Why are you trying to set him him up for failure?
> 
> And I sincerely ask this as a Canucks fan who loves him as a player.



It was a big discussion in the last thread that turned into the weirdest pissing match, I think he's just being funny


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## TheSnipeshow91

I'm not going to completely rule out Pettersson scoring close to 90 points in a season. Today's NHL is trending towards a more offensive skill and speed game. Just look at some of the younger players. You got guys like Laine, Mcdavid, Matthews, Eichel, Draisaitl Marner. There is a clear emphasis of offense as compared to defense, and we will see more and more goals scored in the NHL in the near future. I feel like we are going to have more than a few 80+ point players as soon as these younger players start taking over the league. Not to mention, if you give Pettersson some elite offensive winger *coughsvechnikovcough, he can put up some serious numbers, maybe even upwards of 80 points (50-60 assists,20-25 goals). It might be a stretch, but it isn't completely out of the question.


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## CanaFan

TheSnipeshow91 said:


> I'm not going to completely rule out Pettersson scoring close to 90 points in a season. Today's NHL is trending towards a more offensive skill and speed game. Just look at some of the younger players. You got guys like Laine, Mcdavid, Matthews, Eichel, Draisaitl Marner. There is a clear emphasis of offense as compared to defense, and we will see more and more goals scored in the NHL in the near future. I feel like we are going to have more than a few 80+ point players as soon as these younger players start taking over the league. Not to mention, if you give Pettersson some elite offensive winger *coughsvechnikovcough, he can put up some serious numbers, maybe even upwards of 80 points (50-60 assists,20-25 goals). It might be a stretch, but it isn't completely out of the question.




Sure but you're including at least two caveats to the projection, namely that league scoring inflates and he has an elite offensive player on his wing. Both possible but sort of unrelated to Pettersson and his own personal skill/production ceiling, no?

I think a better or at least fairer way to discuss a player's upside is to frame it in a reasonably static and neutral situation. What can a player produce in today's world and with a typical set of top linemates. Otherwise the projection becomes as much about the extraneous variables being hypothesized as the player themselves.

For my part I see Pettersson's ceiling more in the 65-75 point range based on my criteria above (current scoring rates, good but not elite linemates). That would put him on par with players like Draisaitl, Tarasenko, and Pastrnak, hardly a poor group to be lumped in with. Anything more than that seems a tad unfounded based on what Pettersson has shown to date.


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## EK47

I don't think playing for VÃ¤xjÃ¶ next season is the best decision, Sam Hallams track record with juniors is pretty bad at best, although they have never had a junior of this quality either.


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## TheSnipeshow91

CanaFan said:


> Sure but you're including at least two caveats to the projection, namely that league scoring inflates and he has an elite offensive player on his wing. Both possible but sort of unrelated to Pettersson and his own personal skill/production ceiling, no?
> 
> I think a better or at least fairer way to discuss a player's upside is to frame it in a reasonably static and neutral situation. What can a player produce in today's world and with a typical set of top linemates. Otherwise the projection becomes as much about the extraneous variables being hypothesized as the player themselves.
> 
> For my part I see Pettersson's ceiling more in the 65-75 point range based on my criteria above (current scoring rates, good but not elite linemates). That would put him on par with players like Draisaitl, Tarasenko, and Pastrnak, hardly a poor group to be lumped in with. Anything more than that seems a tad unfounded based on what Pettersson has shown to date.




My post was simply trying to justify a scenario where Pettersson would score upwards of 90 points in a season, and that it wasn't completely out of the realm of possibility. But I fully agree with you, with the current situation we are looking at for Elias (like you said, good but not elite linemates, scoring rate stays the same), he can put up 60-70 points in a season if he does pans out, and I'd be more than satisfied with that.


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## ulvvf

EK47 said:


> I don't think playing for VÃƒÂ¤xjÃƒÂ¶ next season is the best decision, Sam Hallams track record with juniors is pretty bad at best, although they have never had a junior of this quality either.




Like you said, Vaxjo has not really have any junior of high quality to play in shl. Who is their best junior before Pettersson? Hogberg? So when you say track record, which talent have he misuse?


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## Amazing Kreiderman

Never really thought Pettersson was good enough to be picked in the top-5 but I might be wrong. I just don't see him transitioning to the NHL with the same style of play and be a solid 1st liner.


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## VictorLustig

ulvvf said:


> Like you said, Vaxjo has not really have any junior of high quality to play in shl. Who is their best junior before Pettersson? Hogberg? So when you say track record, which talent have he misuse?




There's a very easy explanation for that. VÃƒÂ¤xjÃƒÂ¶ has been an SHL club for like 6 years. They have not been able to compete with bigger market teams for the best junior players.


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## ulvvf

VictorLustig said:


> There's a very easy explanation for that. VÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤xjÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶ has been an SHL club for like 6 years. They have not been able to compete with bigger market teams for the best junior players.




Yes I know.


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## EK47

ulvvf said:


> Like you said, Vaxjo has not really have any junior of high quality to play in shl. Who is their best junior before Pettersson? Hogberg? So when you say track record, which talent have he misuse?




VÃ¤xjÃ¶ has had numerous juniors in the big league for a short while who actually did pretty well, but as soon as they have a bad game they get scratched for 10 straight games. This was the case with HÃ¶gberg last year and YES it happened way before their injuryproblems were lessened. It's like he has no patience with young players meanwhile older players like Cory Murphy are allowed to be useless without having to fear getting scratched.


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## 1972

This hype is getting out of hand, he's probably a 50-60 point centre.


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## gretskidoo

This hype is way too much, he's probably a 30 point center.. in the ECHL.


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## IComeInPeace

Aside from a relatively small number of posters repeating themselves, their isn't much hype. Their is just hope.

Canuck fans are excited, but we aren't stupid. He has high end talent, but significant obstacles to overcome (size/strength issue, initial quickness, can he play in traffic, can his game translate to the North American style).


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## nucks88

IComeInPeace said:


> Aside from a relatively small number of posters repeating themselves, their isn't much hype. Their is just hope.
> 
> Canuck fans are excited, but we aren't stupid. He has high end talent, but significant obstacles to overcome (size/strength issue, initial quickness, can he play in traffic, can his game translate to the North American style).




Really. People should stop thinking that HF boards is real life. Most Canucks fans are optimistic but realize he has a long way to go. It is just exciting for us to have a great prospect in the chain.


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## monster_bertuzzi

gretskidoo said:


> This hype is way too much, he's probably a 30 point center.. in the ECHL.




Pffft....30 points in the Florida mens league at best.


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## Slapshot_11

how were his season stats compared to other swedes drafted in top 10 or so?


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## Gaunce4gm

Slapshot_11 said:


> how were his season stats compared to other swedes drafted in top 10 or so?




He had zero matches due to producing higher rate than ever previously recorded. 

For reference he outproduced Forsberg and Backstom...


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## M2Beezy

Had him 5th on my list of who will eventually be the best

Hischier
Glass
Makar
Patrick
Pettersson 
Necas
Vilardi

But could see him and Necas and Glass being the 3 best actually. But cant discount Hischier.... or Makar i guess


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## VictorLustig

Gaunce4gm said:


> He had zero matches due to producing higher rate than ever previously recorded.
> 
> For reference he outproduced Forsberg and Backstom...




He did not play in the same league as BÃƒÂ¤ckstrÃƒÂ¶m.


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## CherryToke

Gaunce4gm said:


> For reference he outproduced Forsberg and Backstom...




Backstrom led his SEL team in scoring in his draft year. Pettersson was playing in tier 2 in his draft year...


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## Gaunce4gm

Tryampled said:


> Backstrom led his SEL team in scoring in his draft year. Pettersson was playing in tier 2 in his draft year...




I'm aware of that, there was an article in which his scoring was adjusted for league equivalences


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## Orca Smash

1972 said:


> This hype is getting out of hand, he's probably a 50-60 point centre.




It is literally one guy who is repeating himself to get other fans going such as yourself who then enter this thread to try to guess lower production numbers same thing happened in the other one.


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## Orca Smash

Amazing Kreiderman said:


> Never really thought Pettersson was good enough to be picked in the top-5 but I might be wrong. I just don't see him transitioning to the NHL with the same style of play and be a solid 1st liner.




Out of curiosity what style of play is that?

He is a few years away, everyone agrees on that, he needs to get stronger and gain weight which will help him play his game in the nhl, but that is a couple of years away.


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## Arizonan God

He has the potential to be a perennial 60 point, occasional 70 point guy imo.


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## ihaveyuidonttouchme

i can potentially see him averaging 60+ give or take and peak at ~70-80/90 max but for few seasons...i dont wanna get ahead of myself


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## GFY

I can potentially see him play in the NHL


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## Elias Pettersson

Thanks for the words of encouragement guys!


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## lawrence

Elias Pettersson said:


> Thanks for the words of encouragement guys!




No worries man, where are you right now? 170lb yet?


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## Elias Pettersson

lawrence said:


> No worries man, where are you right now? 170lb yet?




167.3 this morning after I took my dump


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## Hansen

Elias Pettersson said:


> 167.3 this morning after I took my dump




please stop


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## Levitate

Gaunce4gm said:


> I'm aware of that, there was an article in which his scoring was adjusted for league equivalences




hahaha give me a break


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## Slimmy

TheSnipeshow91 said:


> I'm not going to completely rule out Pettersson scoring close to 90 points in a season. Today's NHL is trending towards a more offensive skill and speed game. Just look at some of the younger players. You got guys like Laine, Mcdavid, Matthews, Eichel, Draisaitl Marner. There is a clear emphasis of offense as compared to defense, and we will see more and more goals scored in the NHL in the near future. I feel like we are going to have more than a few 80+ point players as soon as these younger players start taking over the league. Not to mention, if you give Pettersson some elite offensive winger *coughsvechnikovcough, he can put up some serious numbers, maybe even upwards of 80 points (50-60 assists,20-25 goals). It might be a stretch, but it isn't completely out of the question.




Wow. Just look at all the expertise and hockey knowledge in here..


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## Aceboogie

Hate this pick

It's so solid, I have him as having higher potential as the top 2 picks.


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## ijuka

Gaunce4gm said:


> He had zero matches due to producing higher rate than ever previously recorded.
> 
> For reference he outproduced Forsberg and Backstom...




For reference, at the same age Patrik Berglund had 1.37 PPG in the league whereas Elias Pettersson had 0.95 but go ahead and cherry pick... More recently, William Karlsson also outscored him when it comes to PPG. 


The reason most of the best, rapidly developed players haven't produced as well in Allsvenskan at the age of u-19 is simply the fact that almost always, they were playing in SHL instead. Pettersson being unable to play in SHL should be seen as a negative, not twisted into a positive.


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## VictorLustig

ijuka said:


> For reference, at the same age Patrik Berglund had 1.37 PPG in the league whereas Elias Pettersson had 0.95 but go ahead and cherry pick... More recently, William Karlsson also outscored him when it comes to PPG.
> 
> 
> The reason most of the best, rapidly developed players haven't produced as well in Allsvenskan at the age of u-19 is simply the fact that almost always, they were playing in SHL instead. Pettersson being unable to play in SHL should be seen as a negative, not twisted into a positive.




First of all, Allsvenskan was nowhere near the same level when Berglund played as it is today and William Karlsson played on the same line as one of the top scorers of all time, and was heavily outscored by him. Secondly, Pettersson would not have been able to play in the SHL last season or the season before even if he was better than Sidney Crosby, that's how contracts work.


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## bottomofthefoodchain

ijuka said:


> For reference, at the same age Patrik Berglund had 1.37 PPG in the league whereas Elias Pettersson had 0.95 but go ahead and cherry pick... More recently, William Karlsson also outscored him when it comes to PPG.
> 
> 
> The reason most of the best, rapidly developed players haven't produced as well in Allsvenskan at the age of u-19 is simply the fact that almost always, they were playing in SHL instead. Pettersson being unable to play in SHL should be seen as a negative, not twisted into a positive.




Berglund in his draft year had 4 points in 21 games. William Karlsson 4 points in 14 games.

Ah yes, those bums OEL and Filip Forsberg being stuck in Allsvenskan, never becoming anything more than your average Joe.


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## ijuka

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Berglund in his draft year had 4 points in 21 games. William Karlsson 4 points in 14 games.
> 
> Ah yes, those bums OEL and Filip Forsberg being stuck in Allsvenskan, never becoming anything more than your average Joe.




To the second sentence, yes, there are exceptions. Note the usage of the word "most" rather than "every". And defensemen are pretty terrible to use for comparisons with a forward.


To the first sentence, I compared them by age, I am perfectly aware that Elias Pettersson is a late birthday. Which I also clearly specified instead of using "draft season". I guess we only have Karlsson as a comparable if Berglund was playing in such a weak league at the time. At u-18 Pettersson scored 9 points in 25 games. Which is better than the scoring Karlsson at u-18 with 4 points in 14 games. But not -that- much better, when you consider that Karlsson wasn't even a very high caliber prospect and hasn't exactly become any better as a player.

Regardless, it appears you missed the main point, which was "him being unable to play in SHL can't be seen as a positive instead of a negative".


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## VictorLustig

ijuka said:


> *To the second sentence, yes, there are exceptions. Note the usage of the word "most" rather than "every". And defensemen are pretty terrible to use for comparisons with a forward.*
> 
> 
> To the first sentence, I compared them by age, I am perfectly aware that Elias Pettersson is a late birthday. Which I also clearly specified instead of using "draft season". I guess we only have Karlsson as a comparable if Berglund was playing in such a weak league at the time. At u-18 Pettersson scored 9 points in 25 games. Which is better than the scoring Karlsson at u-18 with 4 points in 14 games. But not -that- much better, when you consider that Karlsson wasn't even a very high caliber prospect and hasn't exactly become any better as a player.




Forsberg, Pastrnak, Nylander, Burakovsky, Wennberg, Rask?

Awful lot of exceptions. Allsvenskan has produced better forwards than the SHL the last few years, and it's not particularly close.


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## ijuka

VictorLustig said:


> Forsberg, Pastrnak, Nylander, Burakovsky, Wennberg, Rask?
> 
> Awful lot of exceptions. Allsvenskan has produced better forwards than the SHL the last few years, and it's not particularly close.



... I don't really see your point? Obviously most of the prospects are going to play in Allsvenskan because SHL is too tough of a league for most of them to play in. CHL produces most NHLers, but that doesn't mean it's a more difficult league(or a group of them) than SHL, either. 

You might also note that none of these were top 5 first rounders, though Pastrnak perhaps should have been and, for the record, his production in Allsvenskan was far more impressive than Pettersson's.


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## docbenton

Pastrnak had 24 points in 36 games in Sodertalje...how is that more impressive than 41 in 43


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## maaran

ijuka said:


> ... I don't really see your point? Obviously most of the prospects are going to play in Allsvenskan because SHL is too tough of a league for most of them to play in. CHL produces most NHLers, but that doesn't mean it's a more difficult league(or a group of them) than SHL, either.
> 
> You might also note that none of these were top 5 first rounders, though Pastrnak perhaps should have been and, for the record, *his production in Allsvenskan was far more impressive than Pettersson's.*




Pettersson had 41 points in 43 games and Pastrnak had 24 points in 36 games. Obviously hoping for a pastrnak type player would be amazing and is probably unlikely, but in the Allesvenskan Pettersson definitely had better production.


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## Dodospice

maaran said:


> Pettersson had 41 points in 43 games and Pastrnak had 24 points in 36 games. Obviously hoping for a pastrnak type player would be amazing and is probably unlikely, but in the Allesvenskan Pettersson definitely had better production.




It really wasn't as impressive. I like Pettersson as a prospect and have nothing against him but when Pettersson was the same age as Pastrnak and not looking at draft year (birth date is a better comparison in my opinion), Pastrnak vastly outproduced Pettersson. Pastrnak had 24 in 36 and at the same age as Pettersson had 27 in 46 in the NHL. Pettersson had 9 in 25 and then 41 in 43. Their ages at this time are more reasonable to compare in my opinion then it is to simply look at their draft years since Pettersson is a late birthday and Pastrnak is not.


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## maaran

Dodospice said:


> It really wasn't as impressive. I like Pettersson as a prospect and have nothing against him but when Pettersson was the same age as Pastrnak and not looking at draft year (birth date is a better comparison in my opinion), Pastrnak vastly outproduced Pettersson. Pastrnak had 24 in 36 and at the same age as Pettersson had 27 in 46 in the NHL. Pettersson had 9 in 25 and then 41 in 43. Their ages at this time are more reasonable to compare in my opinion then it is to simply look at their draft years since Pettersson is a late birthday and Pastrnak is not.




But it's not like you become vastly better when you become 19. It's a gradual process.


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## Hale The Villain

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Berglund in his draft year had 4 points in 21 games. William Karlsson 4 points in 14 games.
> 
> Ah yes, those bums OEL and Filip Forsberg being stuck in Allsvenskan, never becoming anything more than your average Joe.




It's not draft year that matters, it's age. Pettersson is a late-birthday, 

In their 17YR old season:

Pettersson had 9P in 25GP
Karlsson had 4P in 14GP
Berglund had 4P in 21GP

In their 18YR old season:

Berglund had 48P in 35GP
Karlsson had 45P in 46GP
Pettersson had 41P in 43GP

Maybe the Allsvenskan has improved over the years, but let's not pretend Pettersson's numbers blow them out of the water by comparing his 18YR old season to their 17YR old seasons.


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## Hale The Villain

docbenton said:


> Pastrnak had 24 points in 36 games in Sodertalje...how is that more impressive than 41 in 43




Pastrnak was a year younger when he put up those numbers.

The proper comparison is:

17YR old Pastrnak: 24P in 36GP
17YR old Pettersson: 9P in 25GP

To answer your question, it's much more impressive.


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## bottomofthefoodchain

ijuka said:


> To the second sentence, yes, there are exceptions. Note the usage of the word "most" rather than "every". And defensemen are pretty terrible to use for comparisons with a forward.
> 
> 
> To the first sentence, I compared them by age, I am perfectly aware that Elias Pettersson is a late birthday. Which I also clearly specified instead of using "draft season". I guess we only have Karlsson as a comparable if Berglund was playing in such a weak league at the time. At u-18 Pettersson scored 9 points in 25 games. Which is better than the scoring Karlsson at u-18 with 4 points in 14 games. But not -that- much better, when you consider that Karlsson wasn't even a very high caliber prospect and hasn't exactly become any better as a player.
> 
> Regardless, it appears you missed the main point, which was "him being unable to play in SHL can't be seen as a positive instead of a negative".




Karlsson was about 3 months younger than Pettersson in his draft year, born in january. Not using draft season is strange, but whatever floats your boat.

It's not a negative though, not a positive either. Just two different leagues.


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## bottomofthefoodchain

Hale The Villain said:


> It's not draft year that matters, it's age. Pettersson is a late-birthday,
> 
> In their 17YR old season:
> 
> Pettersson had 9P in 25GP
> Karlsson had 4P in 14GP
> Berglund had 4P in 21GP
> 
> In their 18YR old season:
> 
> Berglund had 48P in 35GP
> Karlsson had 45P in 46GP
> Pettersson had 41P in 43GP
> 
> Maybe the Allsvenskan has improved over the years, but let's not pretend Pettersson's numbers blow them out of the water by comparing his 18YR old season to their 17YR old seasons.




Im repeating myself, but in Pettersson's so called 18YR old season he is 3 months older than Karlsson was in his 17YR season. Sounds like a better comparison to me.


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## Dodospice

maaran said:


> But it's not like you become vastly better when you become 19. It's a gradual process.




It is a gradual process but since there is no perfect way to evaluate players in or across drafts, I choose to compare using their birth years. When Pastrnak was drafted he had just completed his "17YO" season and when Pettersson was drafted he just completed his "18YO" season.. that's the way I choose to evaluate them but everyone is different.

Whether they played hockey or not they have the potential for another season of development since they're "one" birth year older then the other first time eligible players for their draft.


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## CanaFan

Hale The Villain said:


> Pastrnak was a year younger when he put up those numbers.
> 
> The proper comparison is:
> 
> 17YR old Pastrnak: 24P in 36GP
> 17YR old Pettersson: 9P in 25GP
> 
> To answer your question, it's much more impressive.




Not really. Pettersson and Pastrnak were both drafted after their 2nd year in the Allsvenskan. Pastrnak played 11 games the year before, Pettersson played 25. If you want to think the extra 14 games Pettersson played made a big difference in his second year, go ahead. Most rational people can comprehend that it's a very minor difference when looking at development.


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## Hale The Villain

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Im repeating myself, but in Pettersson's so called 18YR old season he is 3 months older than Karlsson was in his 17YR season. Sounds like a better comparison to me.




Months don't matter either, it's birth year that matters.

Pettersson has been competing against his fellow '98 borns since he strapped on skates. It's only because of the arbitrary Sept 15 draft cut-off that he got selected in 2017 instead of 2016. 

His production should be compared to what other 18YR olds have done, not what 17YR olds have done.


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## CanaFan

Dodospice said:


> It is a gradual process but since there is no perfect way to evaluate players in or across drafts, I choose to compare using their birth years. When Pastrnak was drafted he had just completed his "17YO" season and when Pettersson was drafted he just completed his "18YO" season.. that's the way I choose to evaluate them but everyone is different.
> 
> Whether they played hockey or not they have the potential for another season of development since they're "one" birth year older then the other first time eligible players for their draft.




The easy solution is to compare them based on their number of years in the league. First year vs first year, second year vs second year. Makes more sense than fussing over a couple of months of age.


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## CanaFan

Hale The Villain said:


> Months don't matter either, it's birth year that matters.
> 
> Pettersson has been competing against his fellow '98 borns since he strapped on skates. It's only because of the arbitrary Sept 15 draft cut-off that he got selected in 2017 instead of 2016.
> 
> His production should be compared to what other 18YR olds have done, not what 17YR olds have done.




It only matters if development is identical and linear. Since it's not the proper comparison is their comparable season in the league. Rookie year to rookie year, second year to second year. Unless you think comparing a guy in his second year in a pro league to a guy in his first is somehow fairer than worrying about who got to play an extra season of bantam at some point in his life.


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## CanaFan

Or look at it this way. Assuming both started playing hockey around age 5, then Pastrnak would have had 12 years of development to Pettersson's 13. That's a minor difference compared to Pastrnak's 1 year of experience in the Allsvenskan vs Pettersson's 0.

The least amount of disparity occurs when you compare them by pro experience, not age.


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## bottomofthefoodchain

Hale The Villain said:


> Months don't matter either, it's birth year that matters.
> 
> *Pettersson has been competing against his fellow '98 borns since he strapped on skates.* It's only because of the arbitrary Sept 15 draft cut-off that he got selected in 2017 instead of 2016.
> 
> His production should be compared to what other 18YR olds have done, not what 17YR olds have done.




No he hasn't. That's not how Swedish junior hockey works.


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## Orca Smash

Dodospice said:


> It really wasn't as impressive. I like Pettersson as a prospect and have nothing against him but when Pettersson was the same age as Pastrnak and not looking at draft year (birth date is a better comparison in my opinion), Pastrnak vastly outproduced Pettersson. Pastrnak had 24 in 36 and at the same age as Pettersson had 27 in 46 in the NHL. Pettersson had 9 in 25 and then 41 in 43. Their ages at this time are more reasonable to compare in my opinion then it is to simply look at their draft years since Pettersson is a late birthday and Pastrnak is not.




Continuing this discussion from previous, someone well regarded in the analytics community tweeted the other day looking at birthdate or draft year, neither method is right or wrong and I tend to agree.


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## Hale The Villain

CanaFan said:


> It only matters if development is identical and linear. Since it's not the proper comparison is their comparable season in the league. Rookie year to rookie year, second year to second year. Unless you think comparing a guy in his second year in a pro league to a guy in his first is somehow fairer than worrying about who got to play an extra season of bantam at some point in his life.




They played the same amount years of bantam/midget. Pettersson got an extra season in the Allsvenskan to show his stuff, which probably saved him from going mid-late 1st round in 2016, had he been born a bit earlier.

Pasternak played 11 games in the Allsvenskan in his 16YR old season. You think that means his 17YR old season should be compared with Pettersson's 18YR old season?


----------



## CanaFan

Hale The Villain said:


> They played the same amount years of bantam/midget. Pettersson got an extra season in the Allsvenskan to show his stuff, which probably saved him from going mid-late 1st round in 2016, had he been born a bit earlier.
> 
> Pasternak played 11 games in the Allsvenskan in his 16YR old season. You think that means his 17YR old season should be compared with Pettersson's 18YR old season?




Pastrnak played 11 games his first year in Allsvenskan. Pettersson played 25. That's pretty similar amounts of experience going into their second year, from which they were both drafted. At least it's much more comparable than trying to compare Pettersson's 1st year with Pastrnak's 2nd year.


----------



## Knucklehead

ijuka said:


> ... I don't really see your point? Obviously most of the prospects are going to play in Allsvenskan because SHL is too tough of a league for most of them to play in. CHL produces most NHLers, but that doesn't mean it's a more difficult league(or a group of them) than SHL, either.
> 
> You might also note that none of these were top 5 first rounders, though Pastrnak perhaps should have been and, *for the record, his production in Allsvenskan was far more impressive than Pettersson's.*





How to you figure that? And "far more impressive" lol lol boy you are either clueless or trying to be funny. In their draft yrs Pettersson not only had more points per game but also had better plus minus stats and having watched a lot of video of him looked very good doing it sooo to suggest Pastrnak or Nylander for that matter as were "way better" has no basis what so ever.

Now if you had said something like; Pastrnak was a few months younger playing in the Allsvensken in his draft year I could acknowledge it may make a difference in a few points but that would still put him behind in points and with a inferior plus minus as well. So again, how to you justify your claim his year was far more impressive than Pettersson's draft yr?


----------



## Knucklehead

Hale The Villain said:


> It's not draft year that matters, it's age. Pettersson is a late-birthday,
> 
> In their 17YR old season:
> 
> Pettersson had 9P in 25GP
> Karlsson had 4P in 14GP
> Berglund had 4P in 21GP
> 
> In their 18YR old season:
> 
> Berglund had 48P in 35GP
> Karlsson had 45P in 46GP
> Pettersson had 41P in 43GP
> 
> Maybe the Allsvenskan has improved over the years, but let's not pretend Pettersson's numbers blow them out of the water by comparing his 18YR old season to their 17YR old seasons.




Pettersson was 16 when he started that season!!!
You go by your age when the season begins. LOL boy oh boy on the one hand you don't accept an obviously better yr by Pettersson statistically speaking when he was 6 months or so older but...it's perfectly right to compare seasons when he is 6 months younger instead? How be we just accept he was a better player statistically speaking of that there is no doubt , in their draft years with the caveat he was a bit older and leave it at that.

The fact is he will likely do just as well in the NHL as Pastrnak, Nylander, Filip Forsberg and the like.


----------



## docbenton

Isn't absolute age the best benchmark? So Pettersson's draft year would be expected to be somewhere in between Pastrnak's draft year and draft+1 year.

I don't see how anyone can argue that you can't compare seasons because a player was 6 months older and then try to compare the same players when that player was 6 months younger instead.


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

Hale The Villain said:


> They played the same amount years of bantam/midget. Pettersson got an extra season in the Allsvenskan to show his stuff, which probably saved him from going mid-late 1st round in 2016, had he been born a bit earlier.
> 
> Pasternak played 11 games in the Allsvenskan in his 16YR old season. You think that means his 17YR old season should be compared with Pettersson's 18YR old season?




Dude you need to inform yourself on how our hockey system works. Bantam? Midget?
You play senior hockey when you are good enough, not when you reach a certain age.


----------



## Dodospice

CanaFan said:


> The easy solution is to compare them based on their number of years in the league. First year vs first year, second year vs second year. Makes more sense than fussing over a couple of months of age.




I disagree with that. I choose to look at birth year and not years in the league when comparing prospects. By no means is it the be all end all and it has its flaws for sure but it's how I choose to look at it. While I factor into my perspective on a player the amount of years in a league, if Cale Makar had of came to the WHL this year instead of playing in the AJHL I wouldn't have compared his numbers to other first year players, I'd have compared them to other late born 98 defenceman.


----------



## CanaFan

Dodospice said:


> I disagree with that. I choose to look at birth year and not years in the league when comparing prospects. By no means is it the be all end all and it has its flaws for sure but it's how I choose to look at it. While I factor into my perspective on a player the amount of years in a league, if Cale Makar had of came to the WHL this year instead of playing in the AJHL I wouldn't have compared his numbers to other first year players, I'd have compared them to other late born 98 defenceman.





I get that you choose to look at it this way but I don't agree it is the better of the two approaches.

Either way you cut it you will have a disparity in their situation, the choice you have is to maximize that disparity or minimize it.

By comparing birth years you are making Pettersson 7 months younger and in his first season in the Allsvenskan vs Pastrnak being 7 months older and in his second year.

By comparing draft years you are making Pettersson 5 months older and both players are in their second season in the Allsvenskan.

Comparing birth years maximizes the disparity in their situations. Comparing draft years minimizes it.

When trying to compare players and their tracking I prefer to minimize the disparity in their situations. Clearly some do not.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

hahaha all these haters coming here just jelly their team didn't draft Pettersson. I can taste the salt 

It's okay, you guys can be salty together in a few years when he scores hatties against your team.

Figure it out bud.


----------



## CanaFan

I wonder how scouts handle the birth year / draft year conundrum?

Like for a player like Leon Draisaitl who was an Oct '95 birthday, did they look at his D-1 season of 58 pts in 64 games and compare it to Sam Bennett's D season of 91 pts in 57 games because Bennett is a June '96 birthday?

Crazy then that anyone would have even taken Draisaitl in the top 15 picks with such poor "draft year" production over guys with so much better production.


----------



## Leon Draisaitl

Hale The Villain said:


> *Months don't matter either, it's birth year that matters.*
> 
> Pettersson has been competing against his fellow '98 borns since he strapped on skates. It's only because of the arbitrary Sept 15 draft cut-off that he got selected in 2017 instead of 2016.
> 
> His production should be compared to what other 18YR olds have done, not what 17YR olds have done.




Player A is born on December 31, 1990.
Player B is born on January 1, 1991.

Player C is born on January 1, 1990
Player D is born on December 31, 1991.

So both sets of players are one year apart in age?


----------



## Hale The Villain

Leon Draisaitl said:


> Player A is born on December 31, 1990.
> Player B is born on January 1, 1991.
> 
> Player C is born on January 1, 1990
> Player D is born on December 31, 1991.
> 
> So both sets of players are one year apart in age?




Doesn't matter whether you are born at the start of the year or the end of the year - if you're a '90 born you play with other '90 borns for almost your entire hockey career up to junior.

It's only the NHL draft that complicates this with their September 15 cutoff. The CHL drafts go by birth year - doesn't matter if you're a early birthday like Sam Steel ('98 born, 2016 draftee) or a late birthday like Patrick ('98 born, 2017 draftee) - you get drafted in the same WHL draft year, as you should.

What is ridiculous is pretending that a '99 born player who has been alive for 210 months (January birthday) should have his play seriously discounted compared to a '99 born player alive for 199 months (December birthday), as if that difference in age creates a major difference in their potential going forward.


----------



## Hale The Villain

CanaFan said:


> I wonder how scouts handle the birth year / draft year conundrum?
> 
> Like for a player like Leon Draisaitl who was an Oct '95 birthday, did they look at his D-1 season of 58 pts in 64 games and compare it to Sam Bennett's D season of 91 pts in 57 games because Bennett is a June '96 birthday?
> 
> Crazy then that anyone would have even taken Draisaitl in the top 15 picks with such poor "draft year" production over guys with so much better production.




Draisaitl's production in his proper draft year wasn't very impressive. With his size and talent it probably would have gotten him taken top 30, but definitely not top 3 in 2013.

Same goes for Pettersson really. His 17YR old year wasn't all that impressive. Might have gotten him drafted 1st round, but definitely not top 5. He exploded offensively in his 18YR old season, which helped him go a lot higher.

Late birthdays get an extra year to show their stuff. If they impress, they can get drafted far higher than they would have in their draft year. Of course if a late birthday has a bad 18YR old year, they'll go lower instead.


----------



## CanaFan

Hale The Villain said:


> Draisaitl's production in his proper draft year wasn't very impressive. With his size and talent it probably would have gotten him taken top 30, but definitely not top 3 in 2013.
> 
> Same goes for Pettersson really. His 17YR old year wasn't all that impressive. Might have gotten him drafted 1st round, but definitely not top 5. He exploded offensively in his 18YR old season, which helped him go a lot higher.
> 
> Late birthdays get an extra year to show their stuff. If they impress, they can get drafted far higher than they would have in their draft year. Of course if a late birthday has a bad 18YR old year, they'll go lower instead.




Except they don't get an "extra year" obviously.

Draisaitl played 2 years in the CHL, just like 96 borns like Bennett, Ekblad, Dal Colle, and Virtanen. He didn't get an "extra year". He got the same time in the top development level as everyone else. And when he was drafted he was compared using his 105 pt second season, just like everyone else.

The same applies to Pettersson. I mean, where exactly is this "extra year" that Pettersson supposedly benefitted from? Somewhere back in his atom days?


----------



## M2Beezy

This birthday discussion is horrible. Can we just talk about the prospect cause every time i see new posts about Pettersson im wondering if is something new but its just some crap about being born in a certain month


----------



## CanaFan

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> This birthday discussion is horrible. Can we just talk about the prospect cause every time i see new posts about Pettersson im wondering if is something new but its just some crap about being born in a certain month




But it's sooooooo impoooooooortant


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Auston Matthews is clearly the worst prospect in the 2016 draft because he was older than everyone. 

There. That ended that discussion effectively. Now let's talk about something else.


----------



## Dodospice

CanaFan said:


> I wonder how scouts handle the birth year / draft year conundrum?
> 
> Like for a player like Leon Draisaitl who was an Oct '95 birthday, did they look at his D-1 season of 58 pts in 64 games and compare it to Sam Bennett's D season of 91 pts in 57 games because Bennett is a June '96 birthday?
> 
> Crazy then that anyone would have even taken Draisaitl in the top 15 picks with such poor "draft year" production over guys with so much better production.




It's obviously a very fluid process, scouting and development changes for everyone. I'm sure scouts looked at his production and wondered if him playing his draft year as an 18 year old junior player instead of a 17 year old like Bennett did was an added advantage. I had Draisaitl ranked higher because I believed he was better. It's not a deciding factor on any player I wouldn't think, especially as a Euro playing in a Euro league, unless it is a 20 year old CHL player dominating against guys all younger than him. 

Obviously Pastrnak has outproduced all draft expectations, if he didn't then he'd have gone higher. I think Pettersson was in the discussion to go top 5 and I don't think it's a bad pick, I like the player and he's a high upside guy for the Canucks. 

I'm only commenting on the birth year or draft year discussion, all perspectives are good to understand and can only broaden how I view a player. I like these discussions. With all that said, the thread has gotten away from the prospect and is more focused on a discussion that has no right answer. 

I like the player, I like the prospect. I think he was a good pick for the Canucks and one of the better ones they've made in the last few drafts.


----------



## CanaFan

Dodospice said:


> It's obviously a very fluid process, scouting and development changes for everyone. I'm sure scouts looked at his production and wondered if him playing his draft year as an 18 year old junior player instead of a 17 year old like Bennett did was an added advantage. I had Draisaitl ranked higher because I believed he was better. It's not a deciding factor on any player I wouldn't think, especially as a Euro playing in a Euro league, unless it is a 20 year old CHL player dominating against guys all younger than him.
> 
> Obviously Pastrnak has outproduced all draft expectations, if he didn't then he'd have gone higher. I think Pettersson was in the discussion to go top 5 and I don't think it's a bad pick, I like the player and he's a high upside guy for the Canucks.
> 
> I'm only commenting on the birth year or draft year discussion, all perspectives are good to understand and can only broaden how I view a player. I like these discussions. With all that said, the thread has gotten away from the prospect and is more focused on a discussion that has no right answer.
> 
> I like the player, I like the prospect. I think he was a good pick for the Canucks and one of the better ones they've made in the last few drafts.




Ya look don't worry about any hard feelings re: Pettersson or anything. I have my own criticisms about him and he was behind Glass and Mittelstadt on my wish list at 5. I like him as a prospect but I'm not here to defend him blindly just because he's a Canuck now. Hell go back 2-3 pages and I'm making fun of other nuck fans for being ridiculous about their point projections for him.

I'm only arguing the practice of using birth year instead of draft year and/or equivalent experience at the player's highest level of development. I believe the biggest development gains are made in the final year or two before the draft and as such comparing a first year at a level (where the player is still adjusting to the higher level, new system, older players, etc) to a player in their second year doesn't make sense to me. In the case of Pettersson and Pastrnak, their 2nd seasons in the Allsvenskan are much more comparable than Pettersson's first with Pastrnak's 2nd. I think scouts echo this thinking in how highly they had Pettersson ranked. If the relevant year was his 9 point D-1 then he should have gone somewhere in the 2nd or 3rd round.


----------



## Dodospice

CanaFan said:


> Ya look don't worry about any hard feelings re: Pettersson or anything. I have my own criticisms about him and he was behind Glass and Mittelstadt on my wish list at 5. I like him as a prospect but I'm not here to defend him blindly just because he's a Canuck now. Hell go back 2-3 pages and I'm making fun of other nuck fans for being ridiculous about their point projections for him.
> 
> I'm only arguing the practice of using birth year instead of draft year and/or equivalent experience at the player's highest level of development. I believe the biggest development gains are made in the final year or two before the draft and as such comparing a first year at a level (where the player is still adjusting to the higher level, new system, older players, etc) to a player in their second year doesn't make sense to me. In the case of Pettersson and Pastrnak, their 2nd seasons in the Allsvenskan are much more comparable than Pettersson's first with Pastrnak's 2nd. I think scouts echo this thinking in how highly they had Pettersson ranked. If the relevant year was his 9 point D-1 then he should have gone somewhere in the 2nd or 3rd round.




Oh you definitely look at draft year of the player and focus on that, I wouldn't expect a scout to go off of a previous players year just because he's a late birthday. It may be more applicable in the CHL where you have a guy who is more physically mature and potentially entering their 3rd year in the league facing off against a lot of 16/17 year olds that may not be physically mature or as good. It's just a matter of how much of that is the player vastly improving and how much is because they're an older player. 

I prefer to use the model of birth year for CHLers at least because that's the age group they've grown up playing against and that extra year in the league can make a big difference. I'm realizing that maybe it's not as applicable to European prospects. 

Pettersson wasn't the guy I'd have gone with at 5, I'm in agreement with Glass or Mittelstadt but none the less a good prospect for the team.


----------



## Hale The Villain

CanaFan said:


> Except they don't get an "extra year" obviously.
> 
> Draisaitl played 2 years in the CHL, just like 96 borns like Bennett, Ekblad, Dal Colle, and Virtanen. He didn't get an "extra year". He got the same time in the top development level as everyone else. And when he was drafted he was compared using his 105 pt second season, just like everyone else.
> 
> The same applies to Pettersson. I mean, where exactly is this "extra year" that Pettersson supposedly benefitted from? Somewhere back in his atom days?




Ugh come on dude this isn't rocket science.

Pastrnak and Pettersson both played primarily in Swedish juniors in their 16YR old season. Pastrnak played most of his season in the SuperElit league, with a short stint in the Allsvenskan; whereas Pettersson played mostly in the J18 Elit league, with a short stint in the SuperElit.

Both then went on to play their 17YR old season in the Allsvenskan. Pastrnak had 24P in 36GP at the same age as Pettersson when he put up his 9P in 25GP. Pastrnak was drafted in his 17YR old season, as he was born in May (before the Sept. 15 cut-off); whereas Pettersson wasn't drafted in his 17YR old season, as he was born in November (after the Sept. 15 cut-off). 

Pettersson went on to play another season in the Allsvenskan in his 18YR old season, which happened to be his draft year because of his late-birthday. This is the extra year I am referring to. Pastrnak didn't get that extra year to show his stuff. At the same age (18) as Pettersson is now, Pastrnak was already in the NHL. If he had been a late-birthday, and scouts got another year to evaluate him, I think it's safe to say he would have gone much higher, just like Pettersson did.

You can pretend it doesn't matter, but the truth is that age (measured in years) is an important factor in comparing production between draft eligible players.


----------



## nowhereman

Hale The Villain said:


> Ugh come on dude this isn't rocket science.
> 
> Pastrnak and Pettersson both played primarily in Swedish juniors in their 16YR old season. Pastrnak played most of his season in the SuperElit league, with a short stint in the Allsvenskan; whereas Pettersson played mostly in the J18 Elit league, with a short stint in the SuperElit.
> 
> Both then went on to play their 17YR old season in the Allsvenskan. Pastrnak had 24P in 36GP at the same age as Pettersson when he put up his 9P in 25GP. Pastrnak was drafted in his 17YR old season, as he was born in May (before the Sept. 15 cut-off); whereas Pettersson wasn't drafted in his 17YR old season, as he was born in November (after the Sept. 15 cut-off).
> 
> Pettersson went on to play another season in the Allsvenskan in his 18YR old season, which happened to be his draft year because of his late-birthday. This is the extra year I am referring to. Pastrnak didn't get that extra year to show his stuff. At the same age (18) as Pettersson is now, Pastrnak was already in the NHL. If he had been a late-birthday, and scouts got another year to evaluate him, I think it's safe to say he would have gone much higher, just like Pettersson did.
> 
> You can pretend it doesn't matter, but the truth is that age (measured in years) is an important factor in comparing production between draft eligible players.



And if any of this truly mattered, why was Pettersson a slamduck top 5-15 draftee, while Pastrnak wasn't even considered a first round pick by many?

It's not as big a factor as you make it out to be.


----------



## Hale The Villain

nowhereman said:


> And if any of this truly mattered, why was Pettersson a slamduck top 5-15 draftee, while Pastrnak wasn't even considered a first round pick by most scouts?




Pettersson deserved to be a top 15 selection. His 17YR old season (last year) wasn't that impressive, but his 18YR old season (this year) was really good. I'd argue that he was a major reach at 5, but that doesn't change the fact that he had a tremendous statistical performance in 2016/17 and deserved to go high in this year's draft.

Pastrnak, on the other hand, was a major draft oversight. He was ranked within the top 30 by almost every major scouting service, but most had him in the second half of the 1st. His ridiculous numbers as a 17YR old in a men's league should have had him go in the top 15 as well.

You'd have to be crazy to think age isn't a consideration at the draft table.


----------



## CanaFan

Hale The Villain said:


> Pettersson deserved to be a top 15 selection. His 17YR old season (last year) wasn't that impressive, but his 18YR old season (this year) was really good. I'd argue that he was a major reach at 5, but that doesn't change the fact that he had a tremendous statistical performance in 2016/17 and deserved to go high in this year's draft.
> 
> Pastrnak, on the other hand, was a major draft oversight. He was ranked within the top 30 by almost every major scouting service, but most had him in the second half of the 1st. His ridiculous numbers as a 17YR old in a men's league should have had him go in the top 15 as well.
> 
> You'd have to be crazy to think age isn't a consideration at the draft table.




But how was it a consideration? Pastrnak was a '96. You've been arguing this makes his season "more impressive". Shouldn't that have resulted in him going higher in the draft then? Why didn't scouts recognize how much more impressive his season was (being a '96)? Why did they ignore that but have a late '95 like Draisaitl ranked so high? Draisaitl's 17 year old season wasn't even PPG which is pretty pathetic for a draft eligible. 

It doesn't make sense if it's as important as you say.


----------



## Love

Hale The Villain said:


> Pastrnak was a year younger when he put up those numbers.




Nope 6 months younger actually.

And they were both in their 2nd pro season in the Allsvenskan.

If Pettersson was born January 1st 1999 and Pastrnak was born July 1st 1996 would you still be as rattled as you are now? It is so nonsensical to think that because EP's birth certificate says '98 instead of '99 that he has some sort of massive advantage over guys born 1.5 months later than him.


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

Hale The Villain said:


> Doesn't matter whether you are born at the start of the year or the end of the year - if you're a '90 born you play with other '90 borns for almost your entire hockey career up to junior.




For the 3rd time I'm telling you: No you don't. 
Damn you are clueless


----------



## Dodospice

Love said:


> Nope 6 months younger actually.
> 
> And they were both in their 2nd pro season in the Allsvenskan.
> 
> If Pettersson was born January 1st 1999 and Pastrnak was born July 1st 1996 would you still be as rattled as you are now? It is so nonsensical to think that because EP's birth certificate says '98 instead of '99 that he has some sort of massive advantage over guys born 1.5 months later than him.




While it may only be 1.5 months difference in age, it's potentially another year of hockey development, another year to improve physicality, strength, etc, etc. When Pastrnak was finishing up his rookie year he still hadn't turned 19, where as if Pettersson was to play in the NHL this year, he'd be 19 shortly into the season. That does make a difference to a players development with the extra year to get stronger and develop.


----------



## Tomas W

About Pastrnak. He did show talent in SSK (swe-2), but he matured a lot once he came over to the NHL. 20/20 he was a steal, but he wasnt that overlocked on draft day as it may seem today.


----------



## Dodospice

CanaFan said:


> But how was it a consideration? Pastrnak was a '96. You've been arguing this makes his season "more impressive". Shouldn't that have resulted in him going higher in the draft then? Why didn't scouts recognize how much more impressive his season was (being a '96)? Why did they ignore that but have a late '95 like Draisaitl ranked so high? Draisaitl's 17 year old season wasn't even PPG which is pretty pathetic for a draft eligible.
> 
> It doesn't make sense if it's as important as you say.




I think it comes down to how well did the scouts think he'd translate. He went where he was ranked to go in the draft so obviously there was some questions on how he'd produce at the NHL level. Those questions were wrong but he's grown so much as a player since then. Just because a player isn't a late birthday and has good stats doesn't mean it will translate over. Leagues are full of those guys. I don't think it's crazy to say that what Pastrnak did as a 17 YO is more impressive then what Pettersson did as an 18 YO but that doesn't mean Pastrnak was or should have been the better prospect. I also don't think it's crazy to say that after seeing what Pastrnak did in the NHL/AHL at 18, if he was a late birthday, he would have put up some very impressive numbers in whatever league he played in and gone much higher than his original draft slot a year prior. Now I think the late birthday is a bigger concern in a the CHL then it is in a men's league and obviously some players it doesn't apply to at all.


----------



## lawrence

Hale The Villain said:


> Ugh come on dude this isn't rocket science.
> 
> Pastrnak and Pettersson both played primarily in Swedish juniors in their 16YR old season. Pastrnak played most of his season in the SuperElit league, with a short stint in the Allsvenskan; whereas Pettersson played mostly in the J18 Elit league, with a short stint in the SuperElit.
> 
> Both then went on to play their 17YR old season in the Allsvenskan. Pastrnak had 24P in 36GP at the same age as Pettersson when he put up his 9P in 25GP. Pastrnak was drafted in his 17YR old season, as he was born in May (before the Sept. 15 cut-off); whereas Pettersson wasn't drafted in his 17YR old season, as he was born in November (after the Sept. 15 cut-off).
> 
> Pettersson went on to play another season in the Allsvenskan in his 18YR old season, which happened to be his draft year because of his late-birthday. This is the extra year I am referring to. Pastrnak didn't get that extra year to show his stuff. At the same age (18) as Pettersson is now, Pastrnak was already in the NHL. If he had been a late-birthday, and scouts got another year to evaluate him, I think it's safe to say he would have gone much higher, just like Pettersson did.
> 
> You can pretend it doesn't matter, but the truth is that age (measured in years) is an important factor in comparing production between draft eligible players.




gtfo! Petterson came into his actual draft year 6.5 months older then Pastnarak. big ficking deal missing the actual 2017 draft which is 1999 birthdates by 6 weeks. cmon. It's not easy finishing in the top 10 scoring in a mens league as an 18 year old.


----------



## CanaFan

Dodospice said:


> While it may only be 1.5 months difference in age, it's potentially another year of hockey development, another year to improve physicality, strength, etc, etc. When Pastrnak was finishing up his rookie year he still hadn't turned 19, where as if Pettersson was to play in the NHL this year, he'd be 19 shortly into the season. That does make a difference to a players development with the extra year to get stronger and develop.




Where is this "extra" year to get stronger coming from? Everyone has the same opportunity to hit the gym during the season or off season. A 21 year old in the NHL can be just as strong as stronger as a 22 year old in the NHL if he puts in the work. Again, Pastrnak and Pettersson both played the same number of seasons in the Allsvenskan. Where is this magical extra time for Pettersson to get bigger and stronger? Hell, he's 161 pounds. If anything Pastrnak was the bigger and stronger one. 

Or try it this way. IF you are right and Pettersson's 1st year in the Allsvenskan (9 pts) is most closely comparable to Pastrnak's 2nd year (24 pts), then how the hell was Pettersson a high first round pick? 9 points in 25 games is terrible production for a draft year player and certainly wouldn't garner a top 10 pick which is where Pettersson was widely ranked. Are scouts unaware that his 18 year old season isn't comparable to all the 17 year olds in this draft? Shouldn't he have been drafted much lower then, like in the 2nd or 3rd round?


----------



## CanaFan

Dodospice said:


> I think it comes down to how well did the scouts think he'd translate. He went where he was ranked to go in the draft so obviously there was some questions on how he'd produce at the NHL level. Those questions were wrong but he's grown so much as a player since then. Just because a player isn't a late birthday and has good stats doesn't mean it will translate over. Leagues are full of those guys. I don't think it's crazy to say that what Pastrnak did as a 17 YO is more impressive then what Pettersson did as an 18 YO *but that doesn't mean Pastrnak was or should have been the better prospect.* I also don't think it's crazy to say that after seeing what Pastrnak did in the NHL/AHL at 18, if he was a late birthday, he would have put up some very impressive numbers in whatever league he played in and gone much higher than his original draft slot a year prior. Now I think the late birthday is a bigger concern in a the CHL then it is in a men's league and obviously some players it doesn't apply to at all.




Disagree with bolded. If what he did was more impressive then absolutely he would have been considered the better prospect. I mean, how are they not the same thing?

Same league, similar questions about their size, strength, and durability. The only thing to possibly distinguish them is their skill / offensive production. And if that is heavily in Pastrnak's favour (24 pts to 9 pts) then he should easily have been the better regarded player. 

But he wasn't, which tells me that the NHL scouting community as a whole doesn't compare players by birth year, they compare them by draft year. Otherwise guys like Pettersson, Draisaitl, Meier, Rantanen were drafted way higher than their D-1 production suggests they should have been.


----------



## docbenton

Dodospice said:


> While it may only be 1.5 months difference in age, it's potentially another year of hockey development, another year to improve physicality, strength, etc, etc. When Pastrnak was finishing up his rookie year he still hadn't turned 19, where as if Pettersson was to play in the NHL this year, he'd be 19 shortly into the season. That does make a difference to a players development with the extra year to get stronger and develop.




This is ridiculous. Players start playing hockey at all different ages, and they play at the level that they are ready for. If a player plays up several age groups that doesn't mean they should be compared to older players, so why would you argue it matters whether someone played with other 98s or 99s growing up, because they were like 1 month older? 

If you're going to compare a late birthday with an early birthday just account for the absolute age difference. Whether that's 1 month or 6 months or 11 months. Don't talk about 17yo season or 18yo season because if you're going to really care about this issue it's really their 17.9 or 18.1 season. On average players do become more physically gifted and understand the game better as their brains and bodies develop with age. That's the only thing worth considering when it comes to age, unless someone started playing when they're 14 or something.


----------



## Dodospice

CanaFan said:


> Disagree with bolded. If what he did was more impressive then absolutely he would have been considered the better prospect. I mean, how are they not the same thing?
> 
> Same league, similar questions about their size, strength, and durability. The only thing to possibly distinguish them is their skill / offensive production. And if that is heavily in Pastrnak's favour (24 pts to 9 pts) then he should easily have been the better regarded player.
> 
> But he wasn't, which tells me that the NHL scouting community as a whole doesn't compare players by birth year, they compare them by draft year. Otherwise guys like Pettersson, Draisaitl, Meier, Rantanen were drafted way higher than their D-1 production suggests they should have been.




Look through the lists of players that have produced good numbers in various league and aren't drafted high or aren't viewed as high end prospects. The list is very long, better production in a league doesn't mean you're going to be the better NHL player or prospect.

When you're drafting you aren't only looking at their D-1 production, if that was the case then guys would never rise or fall. All lists would stay the same. You hear question marks all the time about a late birth year players and how much "more" upside do they have, are their numbers due to their added size, strength, physical maturity as they're likely closer to reaching their physical maturity as an adult. If these questions weren't pertinent you wouldn't see players like Couturier, Patrick, Makar being questioned for dominating a league as an older player.

I'm only comparing what Pettersson did in his 17 YO season and what Pastrnak did in his, the fact Pettersson is late birthday doesn't change his production in his draft year. It only changes the way you would view how impressive what Pastrnak did at 17 compared to what Pettersson did at 18.


----------



## CanaFan

Dodospice said:


> Look through the lists of players that have produced good numbers in various league and aren't drafted high or aren't viewed as high end prospects. The list is very long, better production in a league doesn't mean you're going to be the better NHL player or prospect.
> 
> When you're drafting you aren't only looking at their D-1 production, if that was the case then guys would never rise or fall. All lists would stay the same. You hear question marks all the time about a late birth year players and how much "more" upside do they have, are their numbers due to their added size, strength, physical maturity as they're likely closer to reaching their physical maturity as an adult. If these questions weren't pertinent you wouldn't see players like Couturier, Patrick, Makar being questioned for dominating a league as an older player.
> 
> I'm only comparing what Pettersson did in his 17 YO season and what Pastrnak did in his, the fact Pettersson is late birthday doesn't change his production in his draft year. It only changes the way you would view how impressive what Pastrnak did at 17 compared to what Pettersson did at 18.




But they ARENT questioned, not by legit scouts anyway. If they were then Makar wouldn't have gone 4th overall. Matthews wouldn't have gone 1st. Patrick wouldn't have gone 2nd. Tkachuk wouldn't have gone 6th. Pettersson wouldn't have gone 5th. Meier wouldn't have gone 9th. If you assume that their draft year production is "inflated" by their age then why aren't they being "penalized" by NHL clubs?

If it actually IS such an advantage then this would be factored into their draft position and you'd see older players be draft lower than younger players with similar production. 

The only people who "question" this are seemingly fans on this board. The actual draft results (both the rankings, the actual picks, and how the players eventually turn out) does not support that being an early or late birthday matters at all.


----------



## CanaFan

Again, both Pettersson and Pastrnak were in their 2nd year in the Allsvenskan during their draft year. That matters FAR more than their individual ages or cohort. By being in the same year of Allsvenskan play, they both had equal time to acclimatize to a pro league, earn ice time under their coach, develop their skills and improve their game after their rookie season. That puts them both on very similar footing. 

Trying to compare Pastrnak's 2nd year after he had all those advantages with Pettersson's 1st year when he had none of them is ridiculous. One is a fresh, unproven rookie. The other already has a season under his belt to know what he is in store for in his second season. It's crazy that you ignore all that while insisting Pettersson has had more time to get "bigger and stronger" (161 lbs!) or somehow be more advanced than a guy who has already played a year of pro.

The argument that they have played against a different age cohort their whole lives ceases to be relevant once they are playing in the Allsvenskan league, which contains players of all different age cohorts. At that point all that is relevant is how long they've played at THAT level and developed and adapted against that level of play. Giving Pastrnak an extra year of Allsvenskan development >>>> whatever extra development you think Pettersson got back in midget or bantam.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

Hale The Villain said:


> Pettersson deserved to be a top 15 selection. His 17YR old season (last year) wasn't that impressive, but his 18YR old season (this year) was really good. I'd argue that he was a major reach at 5, but that doesn't change the fact that he had a tremendous statistical performance in 2016/17 and deserved to go high in this year's draft.
> 
> Pastrnak, on the other hand, was a major draft oversight. He was ranked within the top 30 by almost every major scouting service, but most had him in the second half of the 1st. His ridiculous numbers as a 17YR old in a men's league should have had him go in the top 15 as well.
> 
> You'd have to be crazy to think age isn't a consideration at the draft table.




This is a bizarre argurement because obviously Pastrnak was a massive steal at a late 1st and would have gone top 10 in a re-draft just like Petterson.

If Pastrnak had another year in Allsvenskan before he was drafted he would have probably been ranked ahead of Petterson, but that doesn't take anything away from how good Pettersson is or how good he can be it just mean that the Bruins got an absolute steal in Pastrnak because of the route he took and the leagues he played in up to his draft.

Patrnak just had 34 goals and 70pts in his 3rd year in the league as a late 1st pick. That's a crazy steal and Canuck fans would be ecstatic if Pettersson ever puts up numbers like that.


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

docbenton said:


> This is ridiculous. Players start playing hockey at all different ages, and they play at the level that they are ready for. If a player plays up several age groups that doesn't mean they should be compared to older players, so why would you argue it matters whether someone played with other 98s or 99s growing up, because they were like 1 month older?
> 
> If you're going to compare a late birthday with an early birthday just account for the absolute age difference. Whether that's 1 month or 6 months or 11 months. Don't talk about 17yo season or 18yo season because if you're going to really care about this issue it's really their 17.9 or 18.1 season. On average players do become more physically gifted and understand the game better as their brains and bodies develop with age. That's the only thing worth considering when it comes to age, unless someone started playing when they're 14 or something.




This is all that needs to be said about that really.


----------



## Hale The Villain

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> This is a bizarre argurement because obviously Pastrnak was a massive steal at a late 1st and would have gone top 10 in a re-draft just like Petterson.
> 
> If Pastrnak had another year in Allsvenskan before he was drafted he would have probably been ranked ahead of Petterson, but that doesn't take anything away from how good Pettersson is or how good he can be it just mean that the Bruins got an absolute steal in Pastrnak because of the route he took and the leagues he played in up to his draft.
> 
> Patrnak just had 34 goals and 70pts in his 3rd year in the league as a late 1st pick. That's a crazy steal and Canuck fans would be ecstatic if Pettersson ever puts up numbers like that.




This is exactly my point. 

If Pastrnak had an extra year in the Allsvenskan before being drafted he likely would have went a lot higher in 2015 than he did in 2014; just like how Pettersson went a lot higher in 2017 than he would have gone in 2016.



Love said:


> Nope 6 months younger actually.
> 
> And they were both in their 2nd pro season in the Allsvenskan.
> 
> If Pettersson was born January 1st 1999 and Pastrnak was born July 1st 1996 would you still be as rattled as you are now? It is so nonsensical to think that because EP's birth certificate says '98 instead of '99 that he has some sort of massive advantage over guys born 1.5 months later than him.




Again, it's birth year that matters when making comparisons, not months alive.

Pastrnak played 11 games in the Allsvenskan as a 16YR old. I'd hardly call that a full pro season. It was a stint. He played most of his 16YR old season in the SuperElit, the top Swedish junior league. 

Making a comparison between a '98 and a '99 is equivalent to making a comparison between a 2016 draft eligible kid and a 2017 draft eligible kid. It's just not a fair comparison. 



CanaFan said:


> But how was it a consideration? Pastrnak was a '96. You've been arguing this makes his season "more impressive". Shouldn't that have resulted in him going higher in the draft then? Why didn't scouts recognize how much more impressive his season was (being a '96)? Why did they ignore that but have a late '95 like Draisaitl ranked so high? Draisaitl's 17 year old season wasn't even PPG which is pretty pathetic for a draft eligible.
> 
> It doesn't make sense if it's as important as you say.




Pastrnak has proved that he should have been a much higher selection. Look how his 17YR old season compared to other high Allsvenskan draftees:

Nylander: 35GP-15G-12A-27P
Pastrnak: 36GP-8G-16A-24P
Forsberg: 47GP-8G-9A-17P
Burakovsky: 43GP-4G-7A-11P
Pettersson: 25GP-3G-6A-9P
Berglund: 21GP-3G-1A-4P
Backlund: 18GP-1G-2A-3P

Should have been selected top 15 just like Nylander, Forsberg and Pettersson. Why NHL scouts let him fall to the last 1/3 of the 1st round, I don't know.

Draisaitl's 18YR old season was extremely impressive, just like Pettersson's 18YR old season. It wasn't their 17YR old seasons that got them selected high, it was because their late-birthdays afforded them an extra year in their respective leagues before being drafted, which they took full advantage of.

I'm not arguing that Pettersson's 18YR old season wasn't impressive, I'm arguing against comparing his 18YR old production to the production of 17YR olds.


----------



## GetFocht

Are we all in agreement that Pettersson has 90 point potential?


----------



## Hale The Villain

If you want to compare Pettersson's 18YR old season to other 18YR olds in the Allsvenskan, that comparison is as follows:

Berglund: 35GP-21G-27A-48P
Karlsson: 46GP-12G-33A-45P
Pettersson: 43GP-19G-22A-41P
Forsberg: 38GP-15G-18A-33P
Wennberg: 46GP-14G-18A-32P
Dahlen: 51GP-15G-14A-29P
Ekman-Larsson: 42GP-9G-17A-28P
Boqvist: 19GP-3G-9A-12P

Pastrnak, Nylander, Burakovsky and didn't play in the Allsvenskan as 18YR olds.

Pettersson's 18YR old production was extremely impressive compared to other 18YR olds who played in the Allsvenskan. One doesn't need to compare his 18YR old production to the production of 17YR olds to emphasize how impressive his season was statistically in 2016/17.


----------



## Smeagoal

PorscheDesign said:


> *Are we all* in agreement that Pettersson has 90 point potential?




No. Still just you who keeps saying that. 

Why do you keep posting in this thread, on like every other page about his 90 point potential.

Like cool you feel he has the potential, now just wait, if he reaches it in 10 years, come back on here claiming you were the FIRST AINEC to say it.


----------



## CanaFan

PorscheDesign said:


> Are we all in agreement that Pettersson has 90 point potential?




3/10 for effort. Pick up your game son.


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

Hale The Villain said:


> If you want to compare Pettersson's 18YR old season to other 18YR olds in the Allsvenskan, that comparison is as follows:
> 
> Berglund: 35GP-21G-27A-48P
> Karlsson: 46GP-12G-33A-45P
> Pettersson: 43GP-19G-22A-41P
> Forsberg: 38GP-15G-18A-33P
> Wennberg: 46GP-14G-18A-32P
> Dahlen: 51GP-15G-14A-29P
> Ekman-Larsson: 42GP-9G-17A-28P
> Boqvist: 19GP-3G-9A-12P
> 
> Pastrnak, Nylander, Burakovsky and didn't play in the Allsvenskan as 18YR olds.
> 
> Pettersson's 18YR old production was extremely impressive compared to other 18YR olds who played in the Allsvenskan. One doesn't need to compare his 18YR old production to the production of 17YR olds to emphasize how impressive his season was statistically in 2016/17.




Brick wall here


----------



## Orca Smash

Hale The Villain said:


> If you want to compare Pettersson's 18YR old season to other 18YR olds in the Allsvenskan, that comparison is as follows:
> 
> Berglund: 35GP-21G-27A-48P
> Karlsson: 46GP-12G-33A-45P
> Pettersson: 43GP-19G-22A-41P
> Forsberg: 38GP-15G-18A-33P
> Wennberg: 46GP-14G-18A-32P
> Dahlen: 51GP-15G-14A-29P
> Ekman-Larsson: 42GP-9G-17A-28P
> Boqvist: 19GP-3G-9A-12P
> 
> Pastrnak, Nylander, Burakovsky and didn't play in the Allsvenskan as 18YR olds.
> 
> Pettersson's 18YR old production was extremely impressive compared to other 18YR olds who played in the Allsvenskan. One doesn't need to compare his 18YR old production to the production of 17YR olds to emphasize how impressive his season was statistically in 2016/17.




Neither draft year or birth year is right or wrong, you evaluate players how you want and others can evaluate a prospect draft/birth year how they want and lets end this. If you choose to evaluate based on birth year then go ahead, but it does not mean its an absolute correct way of evaluating players and both sides have expressed disagreement on one method or another. 

I wish i could find that tweet the other day where a member of the analytics community expressed why neither method is right or wrong and this is never going to end because your insistent your method in this conversation is correct. I do question your motives however considering you came into this thread firing insults how canucks fans are overvaluing prospects as usual and then chose to spend an exorbitant amount of time looking up information that fits your opinion.


----------



## Disappointed EP40

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> This birthday discussion is horrible. Can we just talk about the prospect cause every time i see new posts about Pettersson im wondering if is something new but its just some crap about being born in a certain month




Just because you don't appreciate an in-depth debate on how to properly evaluate development age doesn't mean others are the same.

Go outside or something if you don't like it.


----------



## lawrence

Sadly A Canucks Fan said:


> No. Still just you who keeps saying that.
> 
> Why do you keep posting in this thread, on like every other page about his 90 point potential.
> 
> Like cool you feel he has the potential, now just wait, if he reaches it in 10 years, come back on here claiming you were the FIRST AINEC to say it.




He wants to sabatoge the entire fan base.

Other fans might not read the whole thread, but to have one guy say he's. a 90 point player is good enough evidence for some to attack an a entire fan base for overrating him.


----------



## Dodospice

I'm in agreement that when you draft a player you don't look at their D-1 year to determine their worth, you look at their draft year. You see what kind of progression they've made from one year to the next. There has been players that dominate because of their age/size that is partly because they're an older player. If age/date of birth wasn't a concern we'd see a lot of 20YO CHLers going high in the draft. 

I'm only saying that if you're going to compare Pastrnak and Pettersson draft seasons, it's not a great comparison because one was an 18 year old and one was a 17 year old. While maybe not the as applicable in a men's league, it is a concern in the CHL to some degree. Just because they're a late birthday doesn't mean you discredit the season they had, it's just another factor that has to be considered. It's probably not even that applicable to the high end prospects, as they're high end for a reason. 

I just think if we're going to compare Pettersson's 18 year old season to a season of Pastrnak's it's best to use his 18 year old season in the AHL/NHL. There's no right or wrong answer to this discussion as player evaluation is a constantly evolving process and no 2 players are the same.


----------



## Love

For those obsessing about birth year answer this for me:

Why on earth was Auston Matthews selected ahead of Patrik Laine? Also, why ther HELL was Leon Draisaitl was absolute **** in his 17 year old season compared to Sam Bennett's 17 year old season. BTW, the age difference between Matthews and Laine was larger than the difference between Pettersson and Pastrnak relative to their draft years.

When we compare "17 year old seasons" between Laine and Matthews, Laine blows Matthews out of the water. So why did Matthews go 1st and Laine went 2nd? If birth year is so important why was it overlooked in this case? Or... why is it overlooked in literally every other case with every prospect ever? Why was Draisaitl selected over Bennett despite Bennett's 17 year old season being astronomically better than Draisaitl's? Exact same could be said about Reinhart vs. Bennett.


----------



## Hale The Villain

Orca Smash said:


> Neither draft year or birth year is right or wrong, you evaluate players how you want and others can evaluate a prospect draft/birth year how they want and lets end this. If you choose to evaluate based on birth year then go ahead, but it does not mean its an absolute correct way of evaluating players and both sides have expressed disagreement on one method or another.
> 
> I wish i could find that tweet the other day where a member of the analytics community expressed why neither method is right or wrong and this is never going to end because your insistent your method in this conversation is correct. I do question your motives however considering you came into this thread firing insults how canucks fans are overvaluing prospects as usual and then chose to spend an exorbitant amount of time looking up information that fits your opinion.




Birth year is objectively the correct way to compare prospects.

Two kids are born - one on September 14 and one on September 15 of 1999. Since they were both born in the same year, they go to school in the same grade and they play on a hockey team with other kids born in the same year, and will graduate high school in the same year.

The kid born on September 14 will be drafted in 2017
The kid born on September 15 will be drafted in 2018

The argument you seem to be making is that the kid born on September 15, 1999 should be compared to 2000-born players, since he's drafted in 2018 because of an arbitrary cut-off, while the kid born on September 14, 1999 should be compared to 1999-born players, since he's drafted in 2017.

Compare players by their birth year and you compare them with their peers. Compare players by draft year and you risk comparing apples to oranges - or more accurately, a redder and riper apple to a sour and undeveloped apple.


----------



## Hale The Villain

Love said:


> For those obsessing about birth year answer this for me:
> 
> Why on earth was Auston Matthews selected ahead of Patrik Laine? Also, why ther HELL was Leon Draisaitl was absolute **** in his 17 year old season compared to Sam Bennett's 17 year old season. BTW, the age difference between Matthews and Laine was larger than the difference between Pettersson and Pastrnak relative to their draft years.
> 
> When we compare "17 year old seasons" between Laine and Matthews, Laine blows Matthews out of the water. So why did Matthews go 1st and Laine went 2nd? If birth year is so important why was it overlooked in this case? Or... why is it overlooked in literally every other case with every prospect ever? Why was Draisaitl selected over Bennett despite Bennett's 17 year old season being astronomically better than Draisaitl's? Exact same could be said about Reinhart vs. Bennett.




Matthews was selected ahead of Laine because scouts felt he was the better prospect, and Draisaitl was selected ahead of Bennett because scouts felt he was the better prospect. 

Birth year isn't overlooked in "literally every other case with every prospect ever", as you so elegantly put it, you just picked two isolated examples of a cases where scouts valued attributes that don't show up on a stat sheet high enough to justify selecting a player with less production over a player with higher production at the same age.


----------



## lawrence

Dodospice said:


> I'm in agreement that when you draft a player you don't look at their D-1 year to determine their worth, you look at their draft year. You see what kind of progression they've made from one year to the next. There has been players that dominate because of their age/size that is partly because they're an older player. If age/date of birth wasn't a concern we'd see a lot of 20YO CHLers going high in the draft.
> 
> I'm only saying that if you're going to compare Pastrnak and Pettersson draft seasons, it's not a great comparison because one was an 18 year old and one was a 17 year old. While maybe not the as applicable in a men's league, it is a concern in the CHL to some degree. Just because they're a late birthday doesn't mean you discredit the season they had, it's just another factor that has to be considered. It's probably not even that applicable to the high end prospects, as they're high end for a reason.
> 
> I just think if we're going to compare Pettersson's 18 year old season to a season of Pastrnak's it's best to use his 18 year old season in the AHL/NHL. There's no right or wrong answer to this discussion as player evaluation is a constantly evolving process and no 2 players are the same.




Now why the Heck are we comparing Pettersson to Pastrnak again? What is hail your villains true agenda right now? 


Already mentioned Petterson is 6 months older then Pastrnark at draft day and he missed having a 1999 Birthday by 6 weeks. He finished top 10 in scoring in a mens leauge as an 18 year old, who is still 18 and will be 18 until late this year. He is not Draft +1. This is his earliest draft year, nothing more. It's not like he missed his actual draft year and went a year later, this is not the case for him. 



> Just because you don't appreciate an in-depth debate on how to properly evaluate development age doesn't mean others are the same.
> 
> Go outside or something if you don't like it.




He's made a good point, it's not like he turned 19 before he got drafted by the Canucks. He's still very much 18 years old and will be 18 years old still when he starts next season. this d+1 is overblown by hailryourvillain, who seems to have a different agenda and why is he targeting a prospect is beyond me.


----------



## lawrence

Hale The Villain said:


> Matthews was selected ahead of Laine because scouts felt he was the better prospect, and Draisaitl was selected ahead of Bennett because scouts felt he was the better prospect.
> 
> Birth year isn't overlooked in "literally every other case with every prospect ever", as you so elegantly put it, you just picked two isolated examples of a cases where scouts valued attributes that don't show up on a stat sheet high enough to justify selecting a player with less production over a player with higher production at the same age.




what is your problem right now? it's not even on topic. And since when the heck were your a boston fan.


----------



## Hale The Villain

lawrence said:


> what is your problem right now? it's not even on topic. And since when the heck were your a boston fan.




I'm not a Boston fan. I'm a fan of logic and reason.

Comparing Pettersson's 18YR old draft-year production to the 17YR old draft-year production of Forsberg/Burakovsky is illogical, which is what started this whole debate.


----------



## Dodospice

Love said:


> For those obsessing about birth year answer this for me:
> 
> Why on earth was Auston Matthews selected ahead of Patrik Laine? Also, why ther HELL was Leon Draisaitl was absolute **** in his 17 year old season compared to Sam Bennett's 17 year old season. BTW, the age difference between Matthews and Laine was larger than the difference between Pettersson and Pastrnak relative to their draft years.
> 
> When we compare "17 year old seasons" between Laine and Matthews, Laine blows Matthews out of the water. So why did Matthews go 1st and Laine went 2nd? If birth year is so important why was it overlooked in this case? Or... why is it overlooked in literally every other case with every prospect ever? Why was Draisaitl selected over Bennett despite Bennett's 17 year old season being astronomically better than Draisaitl's? Exact same could be said about Reinhart vs. Bennett.




The reason why those players were drafted over the others is that they were viewed as better prospects, just because they have a late birthday doesn't mean they aren't deserving to go ahead of them. I have no agenda against a late born player who misses a draft cut off, in fact I've stated that I don't believe it makes a significant difference when talking about elite level prospects. I'm only saying that when you're comparing what Pettersson did this year in Sweden, it's best to compare his numbers to other 98 born players or if it's a 99 born player to the numbers they produce next year. Comparing a player to their age group makes more sense, if you went by draft year why aren't all international tournaments based on when a player is not first draft eligible? 

If you were going to evaluate two players in the CHL, one a late born 98 and one a 99, wouldn't it make more sense to compare their numbers relative to what other players in their age group produced? I'm going to choose to compare the late born 98's numbers to what other 98's are doing and not 99's as they've had another year to develop at this level over a 99. When I watch the World Juniors, I'm going to see how the late 98 did relative to other 98's and not only guys that were in their draft years. 

These comparisons aren't the determining factor in their draft position, it's a small factor in the grand scheme of things. I'm only arguing that it's best to compare 98 born players to other 98s in the grand scheme of things and not a late 98 to a 99.



lawrence said:


> Now why the Heck are we comparing Pettersson to Pastrnak again? What is hail your villains true agenda right now?
> 
> 
> Already mentioned Petterson is 6 months older then Pastrnark at draft day and he missed having a 1999 Birthday by 6 weeks. He finished top 10 in scoring in a mens leauge as an 18 year old, who is still 18 and will be 18 until late this year. He is not Draft +1. This is his earliest draft year, nothing more. It's not like he missed his actual draft year and went a year later, this is not the case for him.
> 
> 
> 
> He's made a good point, it's not like he turned 19 before he got drafted by the Canucks. He's still very much 18 years old and will be 18 years old still when he starts next season. this d+1 is overblown by hailryourvillain, who seems to have a different agenda and why is he targeting a prospect is beyond me.




He's not D+1 but he is D+1 relative to other 98's. He's going to be considered a 19 year old player next year for international hockey purposes and that's how you determine a players age group, not by draft year. Pettersson's numbers as an 18 year old are absolutely fantastic, he's a fantastic prospect, that isn't changed by his draft age. The fact he's a late born 98 only changes that you should compare his numbers and himself to other 98 born players and not to the 99's.


----------



## CanaFan

Hale The Villain said:


> I'm not a Boston fan. I'm a fan of logic and reason.
> 
> Comparing Pettersson's 18YR old draft-year production to the 17YR old draft-year production of Forsberg/Burakovsky is illogical, which is what started this whole debate.




Makes more sense than comparing a player's first year in Allsvenskan with a player's second year when they are only 6 months apart in age.


----------



## Orca Smash

Hale The Villain said:


> *Birth year is objectively the correct way to compare prospects.
> *
> Two kids are born - one on September 14 and one on September 15 of 1999. Since they were both born in the same year, they go to school in the same grade and they play on a hockey team with other kids born in the same year, and will graduate high school in the same year.
> 
> The kid born on September 14 will be drafted in 2017
> The kid born on September 15 will be drafted in 2018
> 
> The argument you seem to be making is that the kid born on September 15, 1999 should be compared to 2000-born players, since he's drafted in 2018 because of an arbitrary cut-off, while the kid born on September 14, 1999 should be compared to 1999-born players, since he's drafted in 2017.
> 
> Compare players by their birth year and you compare them with their peers. Compare players by draft year and you risk comparing apples to oranges - or more accurately, a redder and riper apple to a sour and undeveloped apple.




I disagree and so do others, however some do agree with you on birth year on analyzing players, but I dont agree birth year is the correct way for the reasons discussed in this thread and covered already, both have very large flaws imo.

I think the issue here is entirely you believe your way is the correct way and people who dont agree are wrong. And its something thats not binary and has no absolute correct answer. When I evaluate players I do consider how many months apart they are in development but its not something that can be quantified imo, but that seems to be what people have attempted to do in order to better compare players, unfortunately I think both methods just have to many holes. Likewise you can also mention someone born december 31st and Janurary 1st on the other side of the coin and considering them a year apart, I see issues with regards to player physical and mental development as well.


----------



## lawrence

Hale The Villain said:


> I'm not a Boston fan. I'm a fan of logic and reason.
> 
> Comparing Pettersson's 18YR old draft-year production to the 17YR old draft-year production of Forsberg/Burakovsky is illogical, which is what started this whole debate.




my gosh...

some players turn 18 year old 7 or 8 months into their season. Petterson turned 18 year olds 1.5 months into his season. Your blowing this way out of proportion. 

did I mention he missed having a 1999 birthday by 6 weeks only? give me a break.



> Likewise you can also mention someone born december 31st and Janurary 1st on the other side of the coin and considering them a year apart, I see issues with regards to player physical and mental development as well.




He obviously have a different agenda right now. It all started with him bringing up how we overrated every player we drafted.


----------



## ulvvf

docbenton said:


> This is ridiculous. Players start playing hockey at all different ages, and they play at the level that they are ready for. If a player plays up several age groups that doesn't mean they should be compared to older players, so why would you argue it matters whether someone played with other 98s or 99s growing up, because they were like 1 month older?
> 
> If you're going to compare a late birthday with an early birthday just account for the absolute age difference. Whether that's 1 month or 6 months or 11 months. Don't talk about 17yo season or 18yo season because if you're going to really care about this issue it's really their 17.9 or 18.1 season. On average players do become more physically gifted and understand the game better as their brains and bodies develop with age. That's the only thing worth considering when it comes to age, unless someone started playing when they're 14 or something.




I agree, if anything it is seasons that matter not birth year, since that is their working year, when the season start that is when the real hockey year starts. But like you say, if we should focus so much on age then it should be the absolute age difference.

As you say, good players tend to play against older players anyway, at least in the domestic leagues. 

Btw, my issue is how inconsistent people are with it. Why didnt we hear more about this when it comes to for example Matthews? Why is this all the suddently intresting when it comes to Pettersson but not others?


----------



## ulvvf

Hale The Villain said:


> Birth year is objectively the correct way to compare prospects.
> 
> Two kids are born - one on September 14 and one on September 15 of 1999. Since they were both born in the same year, they go to school in the same grade and they play on a hockey team with other kids born in the same year, and will graduate high school in the same year.
> 
> The kid born on September 14 will be drafted in 2017
> The kid born on September 15 will be drafted in 2018
> 
> The argument you seem to be making is that the kid born on September 15, 1999 should be compared to 2000-born players, since he's drafted in 2018 because of an arbitrary cut-off, while the kid born on September 14, 1999 should be compared to 1999-born players, since he's drafted in 2017.
> 
> Compare players by their birth year and you compare them with their peers. Compare players by draft year and you risk comparing apples to oranges - or more accurately, a redder and riper apple to a sour and undeveloped apple.




Good players tend to player with older players, Pettersson has played this season against 30+ players, so no it is not at all like all 98 born always plays with other 98 born players and 99s players only with other 99 born players. It do not matter if they are born 14 sep, 15 sep, 31dec, 1jan, they play the level their current skills allow them to play at. So what team they will play for will most likely be deterimed by how good they are not what day they are born at.

Remember the season do not start at 1 jan. It may not start or end at 15 sep either, but is alot closer than 1 jan is, that is in the middle of the season, and while any date is a arbitrary cut-off no matter where you draw it (now they have made it the 14 sep, it would have been arbitrary cut-off, if they would have draw it at 31 dec also), but I would argue that the real hockey year and therefore the real development year starts when the season or pre season starts, not a random day in the middle of the season.


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

ulvvf said:


> Good players tend to player with older players, Pettersson has played this season against 30+ players, so no it is not at all like all 98 born always plays with other 98 born players and 99s players only with other 99 born players. It do not matter if they are born 14 sep, 15 sep, 31dec, 1jan, they play the level their current skills allow them to play at. So what team they will play for will most likely be deterimed by how good they are not what day they are born at.
> 
> Remember the season do not start at 1 jan. It may not start or end at 15 sep either, but is alot closer than 1 jan is, that is in the middle of the season, and while any date is a arbitrary cut-off no matter where you draw it (now they have made it the 14 sep, it would have been arbitrary cut-off, if they would have draw it at 31 dec also), but I would argue that the real hockey year and therefore the real development year starts when the season or pre season starts, not a random day in the middle of the season.




Dont bother, Ive told him 3-4 times already, he keps ignoring it because it doesnt fit in to his agenda.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Dont bother, Ive told him 3-4 times already, he keps ignoring it because it doesnt fit in to his agenda.




It's weird. In the Pettersson thread we've got bitter rivals such as oilers, flames, and leafs fans telling us what a great pick Pettersson is, and then we got this Sens fan who's super salty and has dedicated so much time to putting him down. 

????


----------



## Ace of Hades

Elias Pettersson said:


> It's weird. In the Pettersson thread we've got bitter rivals such as oilers, flames, and leafs fans telling us what a great pick Pettersson is, and then we got this Sens fan who's super salty and has dedicated so much time to putting him down.
> 
> ????




Dont bother with him. Hes been anti-Canuck ever since he joined. Lives in Kelowna iirc.


----------



## racerjoe

Hale The Villain said:


> If you want to compare Pettersson's 18YR old season to other 18YR olds in the Allsvenskan, that comparison is as follows:
> 
> Berglund: 35GP-21G-27A-48P
> Karlsson: 46GP-12G-33A-45P
> Pettersson: 43GP-19G-22A-41P
> Forsberg: 38GP-15G-18A-33P
> Wennberg: 46GP-14G-18A-32P
> Dahlen: 51GP-15G-14A-29P
> Ekman-Larsson: 42GP-9G-17A-28P
> Boqvist: 19GP-3G-9A-12P
> 
> Pastrnak, Nylander, Burakovsky and didn't play in the Allsvenskan as 18YR olds.
> 
> Pettersson's 18YR old production was extremely impressive compared to other 18YR olds who played in the Allsvenskan. One doesn't need to compare his 18YR old production to the production of 17YR olds to emphasize how impressive his season was statistically in 2016/17.




If you are judging by age you realize you are still doing it wrong right? You should judge by absolute age, meaning from when each player actually turned a certain age, and should span two actual hockey seasons... but my guess is that also wouldn't help your case. 

I haven't looked into but maybe one played in the league at an earlier age?

I would also actually look into progression as that says a lot about how much r prospect is learning... and I would watch him.


----------



## Amazing Kreiderman

Hale The Villain said:


> They played the same amount years of bantam/midget. Pettersson got an extra season in the Allsvenskan to show his stuff, which probably saved him from going mid-late 1st round in 2016, had he been born a bit earlier.
> 
> Pasternak played 11 games in the Allsvenskan in his 16YR old season. You think that means his 17YR old season should be compared with Pettersson's 18YR old season?




Stop comparing European league-structures to North America


----------



## GetFocht

I can see him hitting 90 points in three years time in the NHL


----------



## DudeWhereIsMakar

Would've been first overall if he were 100% NHL ready. He'll be ready in 1-3 seasons and has strong potential to win rookie of the year.


----------



## CanaFan

PorscheDesign said:


> 90 point potential player






PorscheDesign said:


> Are we all in agreement that Pettersson has 90 point potential?






PorscheDesign said:


> I can see him hitting 90 points in three years time in the NHL




Solid first movie but the sequels just seem like more of the same. 4/10 for the entire trilogy.


----------



## Grantham

CanaFan said:


> Solid first movie but the sequels just seem like more of the same. 4/10 for the entire trilogy.




Worst dad joke of all time


----------



## Lemmiwinks

PorscheDesign said:


> I can see him hitting 90 points in three years time in the NHL




And I can only hope that you'll have deleted your account in three years time.


----------



## CanaFan

Grantham said:


> Worst dad joke of all time




That's quite an honour


----------



## snipes

This kid is so silky smooth. Elite skill + elite IQ. He should be a good one, rewatched some of his highlights again.

Nucks fans are you guys sending him back to Europe or will he get AHL time?


----------



## Colt.45Orr

CanaFan said:


> Solid first movie but the sequels just seem like more of the same. 4/10 for the entire trilogy.


----------



## Domecile

snipes said:


> This kid is so silky smooth. Elite skill + elite IQ. He should be a good one, rewatched some of his highlights again.
> 
> Nucks fans are you guys sending him back to Europe or will he get AHL time?





Nothing's been confirmed as of yet but the initial speculation is that he'll be returning to Vaxjo for at least 1 more season.


----------



## lawrence

Domecile said:


> Nothing's been confirmed as of yet but the initial speculation is that he'll be returning to Vaxjo for at least 1 more season.




He's playing in the Swedish hockey leauge next year.


----------



## Revelation

I could see him maybe putting up 90 points total in his career but definitely not in a season


----------



## Love

snipes said:


> This kid is so silky smooth. Elite skill + elite IQ. He should be a good one, rewatched some of his highlights again.
> 
> Nucks fans are you guys sending him back to Europe or will he get AHL time?




He'll be in the SHL this season.



Domecile said:


> Nothing's been confirmed as of yet but the initial speculation is that he'll be returning to Vaxjo for at least 1 more season.




He didn't play for Vaxjo or in the SHL at all last season. He will be in Vaxjo this season in what will be his rookie season in the SHL.


----------



## Amazing Kreiderman

CanaFan said:


> Solid first movie but the sequels just seem like more of the same. 4/10 for the entire trilogy.


----------



## Amazing Kreiderman

Domecile said:


> Nothing's been confirmed as of yet but the initial speculation is that he'll be returning to Vaxjo for at least 1 more season.




He only played for TimrÃƒÂ¥ in recent years, in the SE and Allsvenskan. He is moving to VÃƒÂ¤xjÃƒÂ¶ this summer


----------



## Grantham

CanaFan said:


> That's quite an honour




Sorry, should have been more clear, I was referring to 90points man. I liked your comment


----------



## CanaFan

Grantham said:


> Sorry, should have been more clear, I was referring to 90points man. I liked your comment




Ah I wasn't offended. I've got two young kids and they would've emphatically agreed that I tell the worst dad jokes


----------



## Siludin

Anyone notice that Pettersson tends to use a very similar move every time he goes to the net? See his shootout or 1:1 goals and a lot of them look the same. Hopefully he gets a few more moves or else goalies will read him easily.


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

Siludin said:


> Anyone notice that Pettersson tends to use a very similar move every time he goes to the net? See his shootout or 1:1 goals and a lot of them look the same. Hopefully he gets a few more moves or else goalies will read him easily.




Yup he does that a lot.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Siludin said:


> Anyone notice that Pettersson tends to use a very similar move every time he goes to the net? See his shootout or 1:1 goals and a lot of them look the same. Hopefully he gets a few more moves or else goalies will read him easily.




The trick is he pulls it off so quickly that they can't properly position for it. As a goalie, you have to respect the backhand if he moves it there, or else you're leaving a wide open side and if he shoots it there, you look like an idiot. So even if you know its coming, you can't really prepare for it.


----------



## Grantham

Elias Pettersson said:


> The trick is he pulls it off so quickly that they can't properly position for it. As a goalie, you have to respect the backhand if he moves it there, or else you're leaving a wide open side and if he shoots it there, you look like an idiot. So even if you know its coming, you can't really prepare for it.




I was going through this whole thread, and some highlights from his previous year. One one goal, he did his patented move, but instead of finishing on the forehand, _*he brought it back and finished on the backhand*_.

I know, not mind bending stuff, but it shows he can change on the fly. It's amazing how the puck looks like it's glued to his stick!


----------



## Orca Smash

Siludin said:


> Anyone notice that Pettersson tends to use a very similar move every time he goes to the net? See his shootout or 1:1 goals and a lot of them look the same. Hopefully he gets a few more moves or else goalies will read him easily.




Isnt it the same move mcdavid almost always uses, as mentioned when goalies started catching on I recall mcdavid going to the backhand.

http://emptynetsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/connor-mcdavid-amazing-goal-gif.gif


----------



## MyNHLPearlsOfWisdom*

This was my top 5 from a top 15 series I did on this past draft .Probably lots to chew on here . https://youtu.be/dU4EcenEqiQ


----------



## Knies iT

Must say, he's been very mediocre in the WJSS. Two biggest knocks to me are that he gets knocked down and out muscled very easily, and doesn't have game breaking speed.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Hasn't really stood out in a good or a bad way, can't put too much stock in summer games though.


----------



## VoidCreature

Not writing him off by any means, be he really hasn't stood out at all to me either.


----------



## Colt.45Orr

VoidCreature said:


> Not writing him off by any means, be he really hasn't stood out at all to me either.




He got pushed around at times while trying to make plays but I can see why he went 5th overall --his hands and IQ are very, very good. If you add 20pds to him (2 years) it makes him a very interesting prospect whereas adding 20pds to other top 10 picks doesn't make them improve as dramatically. He reminds me of Kyle Turris (frame + skill) at the same age.


----------



## 6ix

VoidCreature said:


> Not writing him off by any means, be he really hasn't stood out at all to me either.




Agree with this post. Very unimpressed so far and this is against junior players.


----------



## ijuka

6ix said:


> Agree with this post. Very unimpressed so far and this is against junior players.




Can't really disagree. Even when he isn't making clear mistakes he's just completely invisible and doesn't get anything done. And the skating hasn't been spectacular. I also feel like he's chasing the play a lot. And this chasing is at a junior level, not somewhere where it'd be understandable like the NHL.



Colt.45Orr said:


> He got pushed around at times while trying to make plays but I can see why he went 5th overall --his hands and IQ are very, very good. If you add 20pds to him (2 years) it makes him a very interesting prospect whereas adding 20pds to other top 10 picks doesn't make them improve as dramatically. He reminds me of Kyle Turris (frame + skill) at the same age.




Actually, while the hands are good, I question his IQ after watching these.


----------



## Breakers

6ix said:


> agree with this post. Very unimpressed so far and this is against junior players.






bust


----------



## CanaFan

Breakers said:


> bust




It's always gotta be this way eh?

If people aren't blowing smoke profusely up a player's ass (Possession God!! Elite zone entries!!!) then the only other thing they can be saying is that he's a bust and a terrible pick.

Truth is Pettersson hasn't been all that impressive in any of the games. Maybe he'll be better in future games but we can only comment on what we are seeing now.


----------



## Mathew Barzal

Breakers said:


> bust




Was that supposed to be a witty post.

He hasn't been impressive at all. Get over it.


----------



## Orca Smash

I dont even know why he was playing after hurting his hip in game 1. Hopefully it does not effect his off ice workouts.


----------



## GetFocht

Sweden' coach saying Pettersson is the most skilled player on his squad.


----------



## wings5

He will learn alot playing SHL and should bulk up. He may be a project though.


----------



## SnoopDogg

Gonna bust hard


----------



## wings5

If only he was picked by anyone other than the Canucks chances of success would be 99 %.


----------



## Marlander93

Had a poor showing at this tournament/showcase.


----------



## TheSnipeshow91

I don't know why the coach kept playing him, he's clearly injured. He was noticeably less agile out there, must be a bruised hip. Should be in the gym, like Juolevi, working out and adding some weight. I like how everyone is calling him a bust after he only had 2 assists in 4 games in a friendly tournament lol. He didn't all of a sudden lose all of his skill over the summer, he's still a very talented player. But obviously you have these internet scouts with their tremendous analysis on 18 year old kids calling them "busts" before the season has even started. lol.


----------



## seafoam

A lot of his highlights seem to be him just showing off slick hands on a breakaway or an odd man rush, which is good, but what about his ability to create scoring chances in the offensive zone consistently?

Maybe I just haven't seen enough of him, but playing in the NHL is more than making a having slick hands.


----------



## lawrence

wings5 said:


> If only he was picked by anyone other than the Canucks chances of success would be 99 %.




Unlikely this thread would have been bumped if he was draft d by another team. BUmped a user of a fan base that is very familiar with being critical about what the Canucks players do, and focusing mainly on negatives, meanwhile ignoring how well gadjovichs been doing for team Canada. 

I agree, based on this short tourney, he's going to "bust" hard. Yes he's a bust guys.


----------



## TDK67

Only saw 2 of his 4(?) games. Pretty invisible performance for a Top 5 pick and the "most skilled guy" on Team Sweden.


----------



## firstemperor

Won't put too much stock in the WJSS but I'd be lying if I wasn't a bit disappointed in his play. He just needs to put in some time in the gym and work on his lower body

Andersson looked like the best Swedish forward all tourney- but he is more physically mature (and his game is more well-rounded right now as well). Pettersson is more of a project by comparison (and as such, has a lot more upside).


----------



## nowhereman

Stick a fork in him; he's done. Summer tournaments like these are usually the best barometer of future NHL success and it's clearly evident he's going to crash and burn. Eventually, Vancouver fans should just come to there senses and realize this, without having to let all of the Leafs fans in this thread point it out to them.


----------



## Megaterio Llamas

He was playing with a hitch in his gitalong. He probably shouldn't have been playing in the tournament from a Canucks perspective but they chose not to sign him so they don't control the situation.


----------



## AppsSyl

lawrence said:


> Unlikely this thread would have been bumped if he was draft d by another team. *BUmped a user of a fan base that is very familiar with being critical about what the Canucks players do, and focusing mainly on negatives, meanwhile ignoring how well gadjovichs been doing for team Canada.*
> 
> I agree, based on this short tourney, he's going to "bust" hard. Yes he's a bust guys.




This is pretty funny statement coming from you. I believe you have been very critical and focusing on negatives of a certain fanbase's prospect yourself.


----------



## Canucks LB

Hes obviously hurt


----------



## Sens of Anarchy




----------



## ihaveyuidonttouchme

done all the shift by shifts for the show case.


----------



## Magua

Taking a lot of heat, but he wasn't nearly as bad as it is being made out, injury or not. He hit a post, teammates missed a few good chances -- he could've had some points. IQ was on full display doing a lot of subtle stuff. Worked really hard too, though yes his physical immaturity reared its head. 

I thought he was one of the better forwards in the Canada game. I forget if he actually was moved to center for that game.


----------



## TeddyBare

I liked his game. It was very conservative, but he didn't make any mistakes. He just looked like he didn't really want to initiate the contact.
Everyone can see the high end talent he has.


But ohh my does he get knocked over easily. And for some reason they put him as a net front presence.


----------



## Orca Smash

seafoam said:


> A lot of his highlights seem to be him just showing off slick hands on a breakaway or an odd man rush, which is good, but what about his ability to create scoring chances in the offensive zone consistently?
> 
> Maybe I just haven't seen enough of him, but playing in the NHL is more than making a having slick hands.




Well slick hands and hockey IQ are two of his strongest traits and very much important to nhl success.

He didnt show much of that in the tournament but saying the nhl is more then having slick hands is like saying playing in the nhl is more then being able to read plays and anticipation, its very much an important part of being able to make it in the nhl.... so having hand eye coordination skills will be a huge part of his game and possible future success and is something that not everyone can do at that level.

I dont think the north american game is going to suit him until he adds weight and gets stronger, it was a ton of hack and wack hockey tying players up and at times these kids looked very rusty however he will need to put on weight and strength before playing in NA and he has said as much in interviews. But I also put next to no stock in these tournaments having watched them over the years or even wjc, to many times players look good in a quick tournament and have a few good games and turn out to be fools gold (I mentioned on our board some of the players i was most impressed with were drafted outside the top 20 or the 1st round, hard to imagine they all continue this impressive trajectory, based on a 3 day camp) the real test will start with his shl season and hopefully his hip does not effect his off ice workouts before the season.


----------



## Orca Smash

TeddyBare said:


> I liked his game. It was very conservative, but he didn't make any mistakes. He just looked like he didn't really want to initiate the contact.
> Everyone can see the high end talent he has.
> 
> 
> *But ohh my does he get knocked over easily. And for some reason they put him as a net front presence. *




Yeah that made no sense to me, I dont know what swedish posters know about that coach but I also didnt understand the 1-2-2 forecheck, pettersson seemed to be going in alone trying to chase the puck carrier constantly while his linemates stayed back and pettersson chased the opposition down, and then his only look at center was on the 3rd line. For a coach that called him the most skilled player on the team I didnt understand the utilization at times. 

With that said though him not showing what he was capable of was not the coaches fault either.


----------



## Marlander93

Seemed kind of invisible to me. Barely noticeable.


----------



## Orca Smash

Marlander93 said:


> Seem kind of invisible to me. Barely noticeable.




Yes and you posted he is mark jankowski and that he did not show well in this tournament. We understand your not a fan.

Time will tell...


----------



## Breakers

Orca Smash said:


> Yes and you posted he is mark jankowski and that he did not show well in this tournament. We understand your not a fan.
> 
> Time will tell...






Remember how bad Marner and Strome were in this tournament last year.


----------



## GetFocht

- The hands on this kid: https://streamable.com/bktye


----------



## GetFocht




----------



## Tv9924

ihaveyuidonttouchme said:


> done all the shift by shifts for the show case.




Thanks dude


----------



## Canucks LB

https://streamable.com/bktye

holy ****ing ****


----------



## settinguptheplay

Please hockey gods. Let this kid pack on 20 pounds. You can't teach hands like that.


----------



## pomx

PorscheDesign said:


>





Wow can't wait to see him in NA.


----------



## Sens of Anarchy

PorscheDesign said:


>





put a little mustard on that.


----------



## MMC




----------



## mouser

Still think Vancouver would be better off signing him this summer instead of waiting. Gives them the option to have his ELC slide in 2018-19 if he comes over then.


----------



## ijuka

At this point, these trick shots and exhibition shootouts are cool and all, but I still would like to see him actually perform in real games. He was very disappointing in the summer showcase so I'd hope for him that he has a strong season. He should be in NHL next year already to be worthy of a 5OA pick.


----------



## Highlander23

I like the player but i don't think posting a fancy shootout video will impact people's scepticism (you know who was great at shootouts and average hockey players ? Linus Omark)

edit: plz anyone give this kid some fatty food


----------



## settinguptheplay

ijuka said:


> At this point, these trick shots and exhibition shootouts are cool and all, but I still would like to see him actually perform in real games. He was very disappointing in the summer showcase so I'd hope for him that he has a strong season. He should be in NHL next year already to be worthy of a 5OA pick.




There is plenty of footage of him playing in real games. The summer showcase means nothing. And to try to draw from it is foolhardy. Wasn't Marner looking like a dog just a couple years back in this same event? Appears it didn't hurt Marner's long term ceiling as an NHLer.


----------



## ijuka

settinguptheplay said:


> There is plenty of footage of him playing in real games. The summer showcase means nothing. And to try to draw from it is foolhardy. Wasn't Marner looking like a dog just a couple years back in this same event? Appears it didn't hurt Marner's long term ceiling as an NHLer.




As a u20 player, Marner started the season in NHL. And I don't mean... Allsvenskan. Even NHL training camp games would be nice.


----------



## settinguptheplay

Highlander23 said:


> I like the player but i don't think posting a fancy shootout video will impact people's scepticism (you know who was great at shootouts and average hockey players ? Linus Omark)
> 
> edit: plz anyone give this kid some fatty food




This is the truth. But. Could this statement not be made for every prospect? Minus the fatty foods. 

When it comes to prospects we have a choice. With few exceptions all players have warts, so we can focus on those or we can celebrate the positives. Canuck and Leaf fans, mainly, suffer from the same affliction. Everyone downplays our prospects at every opportunity. Always focusing on the negatives and downplaying the positives. The curse one carries for being part of large vocal fan bases. Sadly, it comes with a defensive reflex which leads to calls of homerism and such.


----------



## settinguptheplay

ijuka said:


> As a u20 player, Marner started the season in NHL. And I don't mean... Allsvenskan. Even NHL training camp games would be nice.




Marner's D+1 season was in Juniors. Pettersson's is going to be in a men's professional league. And before you go there I am not saying EP is better than MM. Just pointing out that a 3 game performance at a mid summer event is not a great time to draw conclusions. Not even sure the point you are making with the above comment. His lack of exposure on NHL ice? He looked amazing at our prospects camp.


----------



## ijuka

Half a year of age difference, born on the equivalent year and you decide to go with draft+1 vs draft+2? Well, I still don't agree with doing that outside of rather extreme age differences. To me, Marner having a poor showing at u19 is quite different from Pettersson having one at u20. 

Certainly, it's too early to count him out, but I'm really curious to see how he actually is able to perform in SHL - Under actual pressure, where he doesn't have 50 years to dekeroni as he wants. There are many players who can do as they wish when they're allowed to be in peace, but under pressure aren't really able to accomplish a whole lot.


----------



## settinguptheplay

ijuka said:


> Half a year of age difference, born on the equivalent year and you decide to go with draft+1 vs draft+2? Well, I still don't agree with doing that outside of rather extreme age differences. To me, Marner having a poor showing at u19 is quite different from Pettersson having one at u20.
> 
> Certainly, it's too early to count him out, but I'm really curious to see how he actually is able to perform in SHL - Under actual pressure, where he doesn't have 50 years to dekeroni as he wants. There are many players who can do as they wish when they're allowed to be in peace, but under pressure aren't really able to accomplish a whole lot.




What on Earth are you talking about. I am talking D+1 years. You do realize that EP was just drafted? And we have always gone by draft year. Why should it be different now? This nonsense about bday/year is only now starting to appear. Players have always been compared by draft year.

Also, Pettersson is 18 years old. Why are you putting him as an U20?

Are you also trying to imply that there is no pressure in the Allsvenskan? Shares the same size ice as the SHL. The quality of player is not as high but neither are the Canadian junior circuits.


----------



## ijuka

I've never compared players by draft year, I've compared them by birth year. 

Pettersson is u20 because he'll be 20 years old on 2018 and as such, it's the last year he'd be eligible for the u20 world championships. This has always been the definition. And I consider this season to begin on July 1 - Which is when he became a u20 player. You can also consider this to happen on actual season start or after the last season ended - That's not very relevant. 

Not in the same manner. Only NHL offers that kind of pressure.


----------



## mouser

settinguptheplay said:


> This is the truth. But. Could this statement not be made for every prospect? Minus the fatty foods.
> 
> When it comes to prospects we have a choice. With few exceptions all players have warts, so we can focus on those or we can celebrate the positives. Canuck and Leaf fans, mainly, suffer from the same affliction. *Everyone downplays our prospects at every opportunity. Always focusing on the negatives and downplaying the positives.* The curse one carries for being part of large vocal fan bases. Sadly, it comes with a defensive reflex which leads to calls of homerism and such.




No, it just means there's a lot more people posting positive or negative opinions then average in other threads.

And sometimes people want to take on the mantle of victimhood to explain why this happens.


----------



## GetFocht

the amount of arguing here that happens here for the the most stupidest details is astonishing. It's obvious that posters who put him down are looking for justification for their team's pick.


----------



## CanaFan

PorscheDesign said:


> the amount of arguing here that happens here for the the most stupidest details is astonishing. It's obvious that posters who put him down are looking for justification for their team's pick.





Arguing over hockey details vs jumping into a thread numerous times to parrot the same "Future 90 point player amirite guys?" line over and over.

I know which one actually fits what HFBoards is supposed to be for.


----------



## Grantham

I think this thread and discussion has been overall very fair towards Pettersson. His skill and vision is off the charts, but man o man, he needs a minor miracle to be able to play in the NHL anytime soon. Never seen such a physically weak top prospect before. I still wanted Vilardi first, but Elias was second for me and I really hope he has the dedication and focus (and genetics) to get double or triple the strength he has now.


----------



## lawrence

PorscheDesign said:


> the amount of arguing here that happens here for the the most stupidest details is astonishing. It's obvious that posters who put him down are looking for justification for their team's pick.





I think it's quite obvious that there are some users took the opportunity of his struggles to rip right into him. Just like every other Canuck prospect. It's quite laughable, and also predictable.


----------



## PatrikBerglund




----------



## CanaFan

lawrence said:


> I think it's quite obvious that there are some users took the opportunity of his struggles to rip right into him. Just like every other Canuck prospect. It's quite laughable, and also predictable.




The only thing that is predictable is you showing up to cry about how nobody likes our prospects and how every other fan base is only here to further some anti-Canucks agenda.

Grow up.


----------



## lawrence

CanaFan said:


> The only thing that is predictable is you showing up to cry about how nobody likes our prospects and how every other fan base is only here to further some anti-Canucks agenda.
> 
> Grow up.




no need to insult me. You know it's true. 



> Pettersson is u20 because he'll be 20 years old on 2018 and as such, it's the last year he'd be eligible for the u20 world championships.




He missed a 1999 Birthday by 6 weeks. He does turn 20 in 2018 but November of 2018. It's not like he's some old man. LOL


----------



## CanaFan

lawrence said:


> no need to insult me. You know it's true.




Not an insult. More of an observation and a request. You are too emotional and lack objectivity in these threads. It's hard to watch.


----------



## ijuka

lawrence said:


> no need to insult me. You know it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> He missed a 1999 Birthday by 6 weeks. He does turn 20 in 2018 but November of 2018. It's not like he's some old man. LOL




He still is u20. If you actually took the 30 seconds to see which post I was replying to, it said: 



settinguptheplay said:


> Also, Pettersson is 18 years old. Why are you putting him as an U20?




I merely answered the question.



And in the case you think I have a vendetta against Canucks for some reason, that's incorrect. I have no negative feelings towards Canucks and there's no reason for me to have any.


----------



## Make It Biznasty*

CanaFan said:


> Not an insult. More of an observation and a request. You are too emotional and lack objectivity in these threads. It's hard to watch.




Agreed. As a Canucks fans it's not only painful to watch, it's embarrassing as well.


----------



## Mergatroidskittle

CanaFan said:


> Not an insult. More of an observation and a request. You are too emotional and lack objectivity in these threads. It's hard to watch.




Kinda funny coming from you.


----------



## Orca Smash

ijuka said:


> As a u20 player, Marner started the season in NHL. And I *don't mean... Allsvenskan*. Even NHL training camp games would be nice.




I understand your doing the birth year as oppossed to draft year and I certainly dont want to beat that horse again since we had pages of differing opinions on it, but pettersson played last year in Allsvenskan, this year he will be in the SHL.


----------



## CanaFan

Mergatroidskittle said:


> Kinda funny coming from you.




Ya? Do I regularly spaz whenever someone makes a negative comment about a Canucks prospect?

If so, I offer my heartfelt apologies to you.


----------



## ijuka

Orca Smash said:


> I understand your doing the birth year as oppossed to draft year and I certainly dont want to beat that horse again since we had pages of differing opinions on it, but pettersson played last year in Allsvenskan, this year he will be in the SHL.




Yep, I know. That was a reference to someone saying that you could see him play in Allsvenskan last season, IIRC. Looking forward to seeing how he does in SHL. That already is a much better indicator in my opinion.


----------



## Marlander93

His skating is really awkward.


----------



## Hale The Villain

With his incredibly weak frame and only average speed, kid is going to get absolutely abused physically on a smaller ice surface, unless he bulks up tremendously.

Still can't believe they picked him at 5.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Haha these haters be jelly


----------



## Keep Sorokin Me Babe

Elias Pettersson said:


> Haha these haters be jelly




His skating isn't good enough to compensate for that lack of size.
Said it before he was drafted and I'll say it again: Jonathan Huberdeau. He'll have the height but not the frame to be a #1C the NHL. Canucks fans watching him for the first time at the WJSS got a sneak peek of how weak he is 

But then again, Vancouver got their Strength & Fitness staff to inspect the kid predraft and they gave the team the go-ahead. Hopefully for Vancouver's sake they were right


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Jon Targaryen said:


> His skating isn't good enough to compensate for that lack of size.
> Said it before he was drafted and I'll say it again: Jonathan Huberdeau. He'll have the height but not the frame to be a #1C the NHL. Canucks fans watching him for the first time at the WJSS got a sneak peek of how weak he is
> 
> But then again, Vancouver got their Strength & Fitness staff to inspect the kid predraft and they gave the team the go-ahead. Hopefully for Vancouver's sake they were right




its ok. Virtanen will teach him how to eat


----------



## lawrence

CanaFan said:


> Ya? Do I regularly spaz whenever someone makes a negative comment about a Canucks prospect?
> 
> If so, I offer my heartfelt apologies to you.




You don't you're the opposite. You spaz at anyone saying anything remotely positive about any Canuck players. People know that. LOL



> Canucks fans watching him for the first time



we saw him go head to head in the Canucks showcase game, and he was one of 3 prospects that stood out far more then anyone else.


----------



## CanaFan

lawrence said:


> You don't you're the opposite. You spaz at anyone saying anything remotely positive about any Canuck players. People know that. LOL




Nope, I just end up debating the handful of Benning-boosters on our board who think everything he does is either sunshine and roses or Mike Gillis' fault. They think Gudbranson is a top 4 D with untapped upside. Sutter is a gritty, playoff performer who puts up 20 goals every year. That Markus Granlund is going to explode offensively because his brother Mikhail did.

These are not reasonable opinions, they are the delusions of fans who cannot separate their love for their team from the (poor) quality of the players on said team. The worst unfortunately get this "attack dog" mentality where anyone who dares to speak negative of one of their dear treasured players is a troll, a hater, blah, blah, blah. As if no one has anything else going on in their lives except an unending need to rile up Canuck fans. It's honestly embarrassing for those of us who can handle criticisms of our players and would rather engage in discussions with other fans than just rant and yell at them.

But you do what you do Lawrence, I never really expected you would stop. Just thought it was worth pointing out.


----------



## lawrence

CanaFan said:


> Nope, I just end up debating the handful of Benning-boosters on our board who think everything he does is either sunshine and roses or Mike Gillis' fault. They think Gudbranson is a top 4 D with untapped upside. Sutter is a gritty, playoff performer who puts up 20 goals every year. That Markus Granlund is going to explode offensively because his brother Mikhail did.
> 
> These are not reasonable opinions, *they are the delusions of fans* who cannot separate their love for their team from the (poor) quality of the players on said team. The worst unfortunately get this "attack dog" mentality where anyone who dares to speak negative of one of their dear treasured players is a troll, a hater, blah, blah, blah. As if no one has anything else going on in their lives except an unending need to rile up Canuck fans. It's honestly embarrassing for those of us who can handle criticisms of our players and would rather engage in discussions with other fans than just rant and yell at them.
> 
> But you do what you do Lawrence, I never really expected you would stop. Just thought it was worth pointing out.




as usual ripping Canuck fans for trying to be a little bit more optimistic or saying something positive about the team/player/prospect.


----------



## CanaFan

lawrence said:


> as usual ripping Canuck fans for trying to be a little bit more optimistic or saying something positive about the team/player/prospect.




Ya, if it flies against reality you bet I'll rip it. This is a discussion board, not a cheerleader section. If you want a safe bubble where everyone only says nice things about the team I believe CDC is more to your tastes.


----------



## nucks88

lawrence said:


> as usual ripping Canuck fans for trying to be a little bit more optimistic or saying something positive about the team/player/prospect.




That is why there is an ignore button...


----------



## tcat84

lawrence said:


> we saw him go head to head in the Canucks showcase game, and he was one of 3 prospects that stood out far more then anyone else.




It was fun to watch but you can't expect that anyone was playing hard out there. No one wants to see two of your teams prospects colliding


----------



## Mathew Barzal

CanaFan said:


> I believe CDC is more to your tastes.




Ayy, lmao


----------



## LaVar

ijuka said:


> I've never compared players by draft year, I've compared them by birth year.




funny considering you did just that comparing draft years here 



ijuka said:


> Confusing... There's no Pettersson's season was better than Strome's(*even the draft season*), so essentially the voters are going by some prospect camp highlights? :/ Pettersson has a lot to prove before he can be considered to be at the level of Strome as a prospect IMO.



lol.

not to mention you discredit the "prospect camp highlights" there, but refer to the summer showcase (which is also meaningless) when it fits with your narrative


----------



## Tryamkin

LaVar said:


> funny considering you did just that comparing draft years here
> 
> lol.
> 
> not to mention you discredit the "prospect camp highlights" there, but refer to the summer showcase (which is also meaningless) when it fits with your narrative




Agreed, and let's be honest here, the armchair GM wannabe's that look at the stat line and judge a player by the amount of points he has don't know what they are talking about. He had 10 shots in the recent tournament and didn't get lucky. There was a lot of good looks and passes that the score sheet doesn't show. His team was playing well when he was on the ice which is shown by his plus minus. I understand when people are busy but cmon, don't try to act all big and pretend you know everything by looking at the same set of numbers everyone else is.


----------



## CanaFan

Tryamkin said:


> Agreed, and let's be honest here, the armchair GM wannabe's that look at the stat line and judge a player by the amount of points he has don't know what they are talking about. He had 10 shots in the recent tournament and didn't get lucky. There was a lot of good looks and passes that the score sheet doesn't show. His team was playing well when he was on the ice which is shown by his plus minus. I understand when people are busy but cmon, don't try to act all big and pretend you know everything by looking at the same set of numbers everyone else is.




Pettersson? I PVRed Sweden's final 3 games and watched them all closely to get a read on Pettersson and he was extremely ineffective offensively. Couldn't maintain puck possession, lost majority of puck battles, generated almost no offense on any shifts. Honestly didn't show anything to indicate he was a high first round pick.

That's not the stats, that's watching him in the games.


----------



## Tryamkin

CanaFan said:


> Pettersson? I PVRed Sweden's final 3 games and watched them all closely to get a read on Pettersson and he was extremely ineffective offensively. Couldn't maintain puck possession, lost majority of puck battles, generated almost no offense on any shifts. Honestly didn't show anything to indicate he was a high first round pick.
> 
> That's not the stats, that's watching him in the games.




Wow 3 games, that's a pretty big sample you got there. He's a bust, and I'm glad you can super sleuth that out from your PVRed games. He was picked for the player he will be, not the player he is and people need to realize that before being so judgemental. He won't be NHL ready for a while and we shouldn't judge him as drastically as people are until then. He shows glimpses of potential that show elite top end center in his future.


----------



## lawrence

CanaFan said:


> Ya, if it flies against reality you bet I'll rip it. *This is a discussion board, not a cheerleader section.* If you want a safe bubble where everyone only says nice things about the team I believe CDC is more to your tastes.




canafan.... no one is cheerleading right now.... Some Canuck fans will defend their prospects. You can't expect anything less. some fans just want to try to find some positives out those 3 games he played, nothing more. Most of them also mentioned the fact he needs to get stronger. Just because one fan says something you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's against reality. Don't like the fact that your actually bordering abusive to anyone saying even, the tiny bit slightest positive, and it's not even much. Unreal. 

I personally don't have a problem with you disagreeing with others, but you can't expect every Canuck fan to say nothing but negative things about their players, like cmon. 




> It was fun to watch but you can't expect that anyone was playing hard out there. No one wants to see two of your teams prospects colliding




good point.


----------



## Luddowich

Yeah let's take the sample size of 3 games over what he's accomplished over the last season and over. I thought everyone knew that Pettersson was a case of drafting for the future and not exactly the presence. His weight issues and strength issues were talked about pre-draft.


----------



## Jason MacIsaac

I wasn't impressed by his speed in the WJSS but then again, middle of summer and injuries are common.


----------



## ijuka

... He was very unimpressive in the summer showcase and it's completely alright to point that out without hordes of people coming to argue about things that weren't even implied like "oh now he's a bust" or "three game sample size". Yes, we know both of these things. Just like we know that he wasn't impressive at all. 



Tryamkin said:


> Wow 3 games, that's a pretty big sample you got there. He's a bust, and I'm glad you can super sleuth that out from your PVRed games. He was picked for the player he will be, not the player he is and people need to realize that before being so judgemental. He won't be NHL ready for a while and we shouldn't judge him as drastically as people are until then. He shows glimpses of potential that show elite top end center in his future.




You said that he was very good in the summer showcase and that people who think otherwise were stat watching and not watching the games, CenaFan says that he wasn't all that good(which he was not) and you start arguing about completely irrelevant things like sample size and "future not the now" which aren't even what he was talking about. You shouldn't have implied that he was impressive during the summer showcase if you can't even back that up enough to agree with yourself.


----------



## Luddowich

Okay, he wasn't impressive in that 3 game sample size. Which indicates absolutely nothing. Tournament is meaningless since he's already a lock for the WJC team. I get that it was the first viewing of him for many but he was drafted as something for the future, would he have already had the strength and weight for the NHL he would probably gone number one. The strength, skating and weight issues have been very obvious, I'm surprised how so many ppl are surprised over this. He needs time, which was said before the draft too.

Watch the 68 games he played last season and you'll see the glimpses and play that made him get picked number 5 this year.


----------



## The Drop

serious questions here.

What if he had 7 goals and 4 assists in those 3 games. would you guys be saying they were meaningless?


----------



## CanaFan

Tryamkin said:


> Wow 3 games, that's a pretty big sample you got there. He's a bust, and I'm glad you can super sleuth that out from your PVRed games. He was picked for the player he will be, not the player he is and people need to realize that before being so judgemental. He won't be NHL ready for a while and we shouldn't judge him as drastically as people are until then. He shows glimpses of potential that show elite top end center in his future.




What does that have to do with anything I said?

Someone said people critiquing him were stat watching. I explained my opinions were from watching the games.

I said nothing about what the games meant for his future or whether he was a good or bad pick at #5.


----------



## CanaFan

lawrence said:


> canafan.... no one is cheerleading right now.... Some Canuck fans will defend their prospects. You can't expect anything less. some fans just want to try to find some positives out those 3 games he played, nothing more. Most of them also mentioned the fact he needs to get stronger. Just because one fan says something you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's against reality. Don't like the fact that your actually bordering abusive to anyone saying even, the tiny bit slightest positive, and it's not even much. Unreal.
> 
> I personally don't have a problem with you disagreeing with others, but you can't expect every Canuck fan to say nothing but negative things about their players, like cmon.




The only thing I have a problem with is you yelling and shrieking at any poster who says something negative about Pettersson in this thread. You can engage people with whom you disagree rather than resorting to lazy and childish "troll" labels.


----------



## CanaFan

Luddowich said:


> Okay, he wasn't impressive in that 3 game sample size. Which indicates absolutely nothing. Tournament is meaningless since he's already a lock for the WJC team. I get that it was the first viewing of him for many but he was drafted as something for the future, would he have already had the strength and weight for the NHL he would probably gone number one. The strength, skating and weight issues have been very obvious, I'm surprised how so many ppl are surprised over this. He needs time, which was said before the draft too.
> 
> Watch the 68 games he played last season and you'll see the glimpses and play that made him get picked number 5 this year.




He was playing against 17-19 year old kids, not NHL players. The fact that he struggled against his own age group is disappointing.


----------



## CanaFan

LaVar said:


> funny considering you did just that comparing draft years here
> 
> lol.
> 
> not to mention you discredit the "prospect camp highlights" there, but refer to the summer showcase (which is also meaningless) when it fits with your narrative




1. Mid season games
.
.
2. Summer showcase
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
3. Early summer prospect scrimmage


----------



## Luddowich

CanaFan said:


> He was playing against 17-19 year old kids, not NHL players. The fact that he struggled against his own age group is disappointing.



In a 3 game sample size where he had absolutely nothing to play for? Yep, couldn't be more sure about someone busting than with this one.
Relax, his flaws are obvious. Good thing he was drafted for the players that he's going to be for the next 15+ years and not today.


----------



## CanaFan

Luddowich said:


> In a 3 game sample size where he had absolutely nothing to play for? Yep, couldn't be more sure about someone busting than with this one.
> Relax, his flaws are obvious. Good thing he was drafted for the players that he's going to be for the next 15+ years and not today.




Nothing to play for? Then don't put on skates. If he's so uncompetitive that he takes games off and lets his teammates down then he has no chance to be a high level NHLer.

Brannstrom showed up and played great. So did Andersson. Both of them are locks to make the team too. Why did they play well but Pettersson couldn't be bothered?

Personally I don't buy that he didn't give 100%. Hockey players at this level are competitive and watching Pettersson I had no issues with his effort level. He just wasn't very effective on the smaller ice.

I'm thinking you're just inventing excuses rather than watching the games.


----------



## ijuka

CanaFan said:


> Nothing to play for? Then don't put on skates. If he's so uncompetitive that he takes games off and lets his teammates down then he has no chance to be a high level NHLer.
> 
> Brannstrom showed up and played great. So did Andersson. Both of them are locks to make the team too. Why did they play well but Pettersson couldn't be bothered?
> 
> *Personally I don't buy that he didn't give 100%. Hockey players at this level are competitive and watching Pettersson I had no issues with his effort level. He just wasn't very effective on the smaller ice.*
> 
> I'm thinking you're just inventing excuses rather than watching the games.




I completely agree with you here. While watching, I didn't get the feeling that he wasn't trying or that he was just taking a vacation and floating around. He was trying - he just was very ineffective. 

And really, as you also have said, this is a level of play where he seriously should be effective, even if he's not trying to his fullest. Many of these players will never make NHL and he's supposed to be a top prospect, in the oldest age group allowed to even play here.


If he did very well, would that change his stock? Barely. He's expected to dominate. 

If he does very poorly? Yes, that's going to be alarming, at least to me. Not conclusive, of course, but something that deserves to be recognized fairly.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

It's strange that he seems to produce/play so much better vs men in comparison to him competing against his peers. He has scored total of 10 goals in 46 games in international games. Last season he scored 19 goals in 43 games in Allsvenskan. Not trying to bash the kid, I just find that weird...


----------



## M2Beezy

The Drop said:


> serious questions here.
> 
> What if he had 7 goals and 4 assists in those 3 games. would you guys be saying they were meaningless?




Yeah but the fact is he DIDNT do that

Its concerning and will have to pay even more attention for the coming year but is still too young for anyone to give up on him quiet yet


----------



## CanaFan

I don't think it's any great insult or trolling to say he *should* have been better. He's a player I / many others have high expectations for and this was the first chance post-draft to see him excel against other players in his peer group.

Inventing excuses or saying the games don't matter misses the point. He *should* have been one of the best players there but wasn't. What was the issue?


----------



## Tryamkin

ijuka said:


> ... He was very unimpressive in the summer showcase and it's completely alright to point that out without hordes of people coming to argue about things that weren't even implied like "oh now he's a bust" or "three game sample size". Yes, we know both of these things. Just like we know that he wasn't impressive at all.
> 
> 
> 
> You said that he was very good in the summer showcase and that people who think otherwise were stat watching and not watching the games, CenaFan says that he wasn't all that good(which he was not) and you start arguing about completely irrelevant things like sample size and "future not the now" which aren't even what he was talking about. You shouldn't have implied that he was impressive during the summer showcase if you can't even back that up enough to agree with yourself.




I didn't say he was extremely impressive I said he had shown glimpses.


----------



## Tryamkin

CanaFan said:


> I don't think it's any great insult or trolling to say he *should* have been better. He's a player I / many others have high expectations for and this was the first chance post-draft to see him excel against other players in his peer group.
> 
> Inventing excuses or saying the games don't matter misses the point. He *should* have been one of the best players there but wasn't. What was the issue?




That's where you're wrong. He's not physically ready to be a player to watch against these guys. You're holding way too high expectations for a high potential project.


----------



## Tryamkin

CanaFan said:


> What does that have to do with anything I said?
> 
> Someone said people critiquing him were stat watching. I explained my opinions were from watching the games.
> 
> I said nothing about what the games meant for his future or whether he was a good or bad pick at #5.




Because I was the one who brought up stat watching....


----------



## CanaFan

Tryamkin said:


> That's where you're wrong. He's not physically ready to be a player to watch against these guys. You're holding way too high expectations for a high potential project.




Against kids his own age?

How did he do so well against men in the Allsvenskan then?


----------



## Tryamkin

ijuka said:


> I completely agree with you here. While watching, I didn't get the feeling that he wasn't trying or that he was just taking a vacation and floating around. He was trying - he just was very ineffective.
> 
> And really, as you also have said, this is a level of play where he seriously should be effective, even if he's not trying to his fullest. Many of these players will never make NHL and he's supposed to be a top prospect, in the oldest age group allowed to even play here.
> 
> 
> If he did very well, would that change his stock? Barely. He's expected to dominate.
> 
> If he does very poorly? Yes, that's going to be alarming, at least to me. Not conclusive, of course, but something that deserves to be recognized fairly.




You can't expect him to dominate.. that's ridiculous. He's not physically close to dominate against these guys. He just gets bodied. If you lower your expectations a little bit it's a lot easier to evaluate.


----------



## CanaFan

Tryamkin said:


> Because I was the one who brought up stat watching....




And I replied saying I didn't stay watch and likely others didn't either. The games were easy to catch on TSN so I doubt anyone had to rely on stats to form an opinion.


----------



## Tryamkin

CanaFan said:


> Against kids his own age?
> 
> How did he do so well against men in the Allsvenskan then?




You're comparing top prospects to Allsvenkan? He's way too small and bound to have off games. Once again I bring up the point that he wasn't drafted for the player his is now.


----------



## Tryamkin

CanaFan said:


> And I replied saying I didn't stay watch and likely others didn't either. The games were easy to catch on TSN so I doubt anyone had to rely on stats to form an opinion.




You'd be surprised. It's easier to say than it is to do, it's also pretty easy to tell.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

Tryamkin said:


> You're comparing top prospects to Allsvenkan? He's way too small and bound to have off games. Once again I bring up the point that he wasn't drafted for the player his is now.



Allsvenskan is a competitive pro league... if his physicality is an issue, one could expect him to be able to produce against "top prospects" too.


----------



## Tryamkin

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> Allsvenskan is a competitive pro league... if his physicality is an issue, one could expect him to be able to produce against "top prospects" too.




Took him a while to adapt and do well in Allsvenskan as well, he just needs time.


----------



## ijuka

Tryamkin said:


> You can't expect him to dominate.. that's ridiculous. He's not physically close to dominate against these guys. He just gets bodied. If you lower your expectations a little bit it's a lot easier to evaluate.




He's physically strong enough to score at a PPG pace against men in Allsvenskan but not physically mature yet to do well vs 17- to 19-year-olds? Sorry but that makes absolutely no sense.


----------



## Luddowich

CanaFan said:


> Nothing to play for? Then don't put on skates. If he's so uncompetitive that he takes games off and lets his teammates down then he has no chance to be a high level NHLer.
> 
> Brannstrom showed up and played great. So did Andersson. Both of them are locks to make the team too. Why did they play well but Pettersson couldn't be bothered?
> 
> Personally I don't buy that he didn't give 100%. Hockey players at this level are competitive and watching Pettersson I had no issues with his effort level. He just wasn't very effective on the smaller ice.
> 
> I'm thinking you're just inventing excuses rather than watching the games.



Yep, because most high level players that play in the pre-season in the NHL takes the game seriously? Is this a joke. Most NHL stars wouldn't give the same effort in a preseason game compared to a normal NHL game that matters.
But they shouldn't put on skates right?
It's preseason. They're playing meaningless games. It's 3 games. Relax.

This is summer HFBoards at its finest.



ijuka said:


> He's physically strong enough to score at a PPG pace against men in Allsvenskan but not physically mature yet to do well vs 17- to 19-year-olds? Sorry but that makes absolutely no sense.



Or maybe, just maybe you get a longer sample size in 46 games about his abilities compared to 3 meaningless ones.


----------



## ijuka

Luddowich said:


> Or maybe, just maybe you get a longer sample size in 46 games about his abilities compared to 3 meaningless ones.



That has nothing to do with what I said. 

I feel like this has been said before? I'm getting a feeling of deja vu.


----------



## Luddowich

ijuka said:


> That has nothing to do with what I said.
> 
> I feel like this has been said before? I'm getting a feeling of deja vu.



It still applies.


----------



## ijuka

Luddowich said:


> It still applies.




? 

I said that he was expected to dominate against his peers. The guy replies that I can't expect that because he's not physically mature enough. I said he's physically mature enough to score at a PPG pace against men in Allsvenskan so that makes no sense. You then talk about things that have nothing to do with what I said. 

I mean, if that's a statement you make for no real reason, that's fine. But I don't see why you'd quote my post in that case, as what you said had nothing to do with it.


----------



## CanaFan

Luddowich said:


> Yep, because most high level players that play in the pre-season in the NHL takes the game seriously? Is this a joke. Most NHL stars wouldn't give the same effort in a preseason game compared to a normal NHL game that matters.
> But they shouldn't put on skates right?
> It's preseason. They're playing meaningless games. It's 3 games. Relax.




Did you watch the games?

Players weren't coasting. And even if everyone was, it's still pathetic that some players stood out while Pettersson did not.

No matter how you slice it it is disappointing that he couldn't stand out as an 18 1/2 year old in a tournament of 17-19 year olds.

That you dismiss his play as "a meaningless tournament" is not comforting. Other players looked good, so obviously it mattered to them. Or maybe they're just that much better?


----------



## Tryamkin

ijuka said:


> He's physically strong enough to score at a PPG pace against men in Allsvenskan but not physically mature yet to do well vs 17- to 19-year-olds? Sorry but that makes absolutely no sense.




I already made the point that it took him a while to find his footing.


----------



## Orca Smash

CanaFan said:


> Did you watch the games?
> 
> Players weren't coasting. And even if everyone was, it's still pathetic that some players stood out while Pettersson did not.
> 
> No matter how you slice it it is disappointing that he couldn't stand out as an 18 1/2 year old in a tournament of 17-19 year olds.
> 
> That you dismiss his play as "a meaningless tournament" is not comforting.* Other players looked good, so obviously it mattered to them. Or maybe they're just that much better?*




This is personally why i place little stock in tournaments often many of the players I was most impressed with were drafted outside the first round, as with many tournaments some players have a good couple games, but I do not believe that many players who stood out drafted outside the first round are going to trend as well as they looked based on a 3 game sample. This is where i find them to be very misleading. I thought oskar steen (6th round pick if I remember) looked fantastic and perhaps the best player on sweden at times during the 3 day camp, but i have a very hard time believing he will turn out to be one of the better players on swedens roster as far as careers go (had a 4 point game).

I think this entire argument is some of us are saying its 3 game summer camp lets not read to much into it yet, and a few others are saying he should have performed better and its concerning he didnt we should be reading more into it.


----------



## Orca Smash

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> It's strange that he seems to produce/play so much better vs men in comparison to him competing against his peers. He has scored total of 10 goals in 46 games in international games. Last season he scored 19 goals in 43 games in Allsvenskan. Not trying to bash the kid, I just find that weird...




I think its the entire issue we all knew pre draft, he needs to add strength and weight to play on north american ice where he has less space and people can pin him along the boards easier.

Playing against U20 competition in the 4 nations tournament he had 7 points in 3 games but in Sweden on international ice.


----------



## Sergei Shirokov

I know there's nothing else that's current to really go on but I'm not too worried about the WJSS. Its a nothing tournament in the middle of the summer. I say lets see what happens when the season starts. I still like this pick.


----------



## PG Canuck

This is all incredibly unnecessary bickering over summer games. It will be funny to read back on this thread later. 

Summer HFBoards never fails to entertain. 

I wonder if Pettersson is eating his vegetables this summer?


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

^^ Many Nucks' fans here seem to be very defensive and sensitive to any sort of criticism. Even though he played bad we should all praise he is the next greatest thing since sliced bread or what do you want?


----------



## Hale The Villain

If Pettersson's poor performance in the WJC Summer Showcase doesn't matter, then neither does his great performance in the Canucks prospects camp.

Truth is that both matter, just not all that much compared to what he does over a full season in Sweden, since the sample size is much bigger.


----------



## Orca Smash

Hale The Villain said:


> If Pettersson's poor performance in the WJC Summer Showcase doesn't matter, then neither does his great performance in the Canucks prospects camp.
> 
> Truth is that both matter, just not all that much *compared to what he does over a full season in Sweden, since the sample size is much bigger.*




This is the first time you have posted in the pettersson thread that we agree.


----------



## Grantham

I find the discussion very imbalanced in this thread. Some are praising the most basic things that he does, but on the other hand others nitpick and criticize to a similar degree in the opposite.

This makes me very excited to see how he does as his season starts in the SEL. I think he will really struggle early on as it is a much higher level of play, but I think he will have the opportunity to grow a lot and hone his skills. 

He's not gonna get nearly the time or space that he is used to, and he will be playing in probably the second best league in the world. I couldn't think of a better environment for him to develop in!


----------



## Tryamkin

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> ^^ Many Nucks' fans here seem to be very defensive and sensitive to any sort of criticism. Even though he played bad we should all praise he is the next greatest thing since sliced bread or what do you want?




He was picked for the player he will be, not who he is now. What we WANT is for everyone to stop judging someone who will take his time to develop.


----------



## IComeInPeace

Grantham said:


> I find the discussion very imbalanced in this thread. Some are praising the most basic things that he does, but on the other hand others nitpick and criticize to a similar degree in the opposite.
> 
> This makes me very excited to see how he does as his season starts in the SEL. I think he will really struggle early on as it is a much higher level of play, but I think he will have the opportunity to grow a lot and hone his skills.
> 
> He's not gonna get nearly the time or space that he is used to, and he will be playing in probably the second best league in the world. I couldn't think of a better environment for him to develop in!



Agree with everything you posted.

A great test for him, and I expect him to really struggle until probably the half way point of the season.


----------



## CanaFan

Tryamkin said:


> He was picked for the player he will be, not who he is now. What we WANT is for everyone to stop judging someone who will take his time to develop.




That's a bit odd though. All players are evaluated as they progress through their D, D+1, etc seasons. That's the very purpose of these boards and this thread. Asking people to "withhold all opinions" until he is 21/22 years old is not a reasonable request.

Not to mention the tournament that was being discussed is a 17-19 year old tournament. Pettersson is 18 1/2 years old. Why on earth would he get a pass for not being able to compete physically against kids his age or even younger than him? If he can't compete physically against kids his own age then how the hell is he going to compete when they all get bigger and stronger than they are now i.e. NHLers? Is he going to out-grow and out-develop all of them over the next 3-4 years?

That doesn't seem reasonable.


----------



## lawrence

CanaFan said:


> That's a bit odd though. All players are evaluated as they progress through their D, D+1, etc seasons. That's the very purpose of these boards and this thread. Asking people to "withhold all opinions" until he is 21/22 years old is not a reasonable request.
> 
> *Not to mention the tournament that was being discussed is a 17-19 year old tournament.* Pettersson is 18 1/2 years old. Why on earth would he get a pass for not being able to compete physically against kids his age or even younger than him? If he can't compete physically against kids his own age then how the hell is he going to compete when they all get bigger and stronger than they are now i.e. NHLers? Is he going to out-grow and out-develop all of them over the next 3-4 years?
> 
> That doesn't seem reasonable.




since when the heck did he play in a tournament ever since he got drafted. ?


----------



## TheBeastCoast

I really think people need to practice patience with him if he struggles early on. Kind of reminds me of Marner in the sense that initially after he got drafted he just looked physically out matched to such a large degree that people got concerned that he would ever be able to handle it. Suddenly you give him an extra year to develop and he looks like a different player in camp last year. I mean it is easy to panic when your best prospect doesn't light the world on fire right away but I think like Marner it's the long game that really matters. He will be fine lol.


----------



## CanaFan

lawrence said:


> since when the heck did he play in a tournament ever since he got drafted. ?




Tournament, competition. What's the difference?


----------



## CanaFan

TheBeastCoast said:


> I really think people need to practice patience with him if he struggles early on. Kind of reminds me of Marner in the sense that initially after he got drafted he just looked physically out matched to such a large degree that people got concerned that he would ever be able to handle it. Suddenly you give him an extra year to develop and he looks like a different player in camp last year. I mean it is easy to panic when your best prospect doesn't light the world on fire right away but I think like Marner it's the long game that really matters. He will be fine lol.




If Pettersson is a top player at the WJC at his D+1 and is in the NHL putting up > 60 pts in his D+2 then people will be just fine with his progression.


----------



## lawrence

CanaFan said:


> Tournament, competition. What's the difference?




Tournament. Meaningful and the teams are playing for 1st 2nd 3rd place or medals. Teams are usually set, with prior selection or tryout purposes already taken place. (Ivan Hlinka, WJC, U18, U19).

World Junior showcase. In my opinion equal to the Exhibition games NHL teams play prior to the start of the NHL season. Kinda like a tryout process. This is pretty much in regards to what I just said at first.



> Teams are usually set, with prior selection or tryout purposes already taken place.



The World junior showcase was exactly that. None better of an example then team Canada coming in with a ton of players. 

Tournament my ass. 



CanaFan said:


> Tournament, competition. What's the difference?




the **** is this comment. Canafan's mindset exhibition games equal to serious tournaments.


----------



## firstemperor

CanaFan said:


> If Pettersson is a top player at the WJC at his D+1 and is in the NHL putting up > 60 pts in his D+2 then people will be just fine with his progression.




Or if he just has a D+1 year as good as Marner...pretty much won every individual/team award possible that year (CHL player of the year, OHL MVP, OHL champions, Memorial Cup Champion + Memorial Cup MVP, etc.). 

I don't think the WJSS means that much in the grand scheme, as long as Pettersson tracks well over the year. But he was disappointing in it...in a tourney against his peers in the same age bracket....and where other prospects picked in the 1st looked good (even his own linemate Andersson).

That said, he is and was always a project pick....who needs to mature physically and is at least a year away, so there's no reason not to be optimistic.


----------



## SvenBaertschi

firstemperor said:


> Or if he just has a D+1 year as good as Marner...pretty much won every individual/team award possible that year (CHL player of the year, OHL MVP, OHL champions, Memorial Cup Champion + Memorial Cup MVP, etc.).
> 
> I don't think the WJSS means that much in the grand scheme, as long as Pettersson tracks well over the year. But he was disappointing in it...in a tourney against his peers in the same age bracket....and where other prospects picked in the 1st looked good (even his own linemate Andersson).
> 
> That said, he is and was always a project pick....who needs to mature physically and is at least a year away, so there's no reason not to be optimistic.




Marner is.... really... good.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

firstemperor said:


> Or if he just has a D+1 year as good as Marner...pretty much won every individual/team award possible that year (CHL player of the year, OHL MVP, OHL champions, Memorial Cup Champion + Memorial Cup MVP, etc.).
> 
> I don't think the WJSS means that much in the grand scheme, as long as Pettersson tracks well over the year. But he was disappointing in it...in a tourney against his peers in the same age bracket....and where *other prospects picked in the 1st looked good* (even his own linemate Andersson).
> 
> That said, he is and was always a project pick....who needs to mature physically and is at least a year away, so there's no reason not to be optimistic.




It's funny how much **** Pettersson has got for his performance yet there hasn't even been one comment in the Glass thread about his performance. 

It's not as fun to talk negatively about a prospect when you know your not going to get a reaction from the fan base. If Vegas had gotten Pettersson and Vancouver had gotten Glass then the roles would be reversed. It's not about actually discussing a prospect it's about getting a reaction from the fan base. 

Teachers that don't react to kids ****ing with them don't get ****ed with, teachers that react to **** get ****ed with because you can get a reaction from them and it's fun.


----------



## TeddyBare

Wow, Corey Pronman really hates this guy.

#49 on his top 100 Prospects.


----------



## Breakers

TeddyBare said:


> Wow, Corey Pronman really hates this guy.
> 
> #49 on his top 100 Prospects.





Never liked him on draft rankings either. Something like 26th or 27th overall.

Hated Cale Makar as well.


----------



## CanaFan

lawrence said:


> Tournament. Meaningful and the teams are playing for 1st 2nd 3rd place or medals. Teams are usually set, with prior selection or tryout purposes already taken place. (Ivan Hlinka, WJC, U18, U19).
> 
> World Junior showcase. In my opinion equal to the Exhibition games NHL teams play prior to the start of the NHL season. Kinda like a tryout process. This is pretty much in regards to what I just said at first.
> 
> The World junior showcase was exactly that. None better of an example then team Canada coming in with a ton of players.
> 
> Tournament my ass.
> 
> 
> 
> the **** is this comment. Canafan's mindset exhibition games equal to serious tournaments.




So your conclusion is players didn't try or put in an effort?

You obviously didn't watch the games if that is your conclusion.

NHL exhibition games are garbage because 50% of the rosters aren't NHLers. Every player in the showcase is at least under consideration for their countries WJC team. The comparison doesn't hold.

Besides, if the competition is as bad as NHL preseason then it is particularly disappointing that Pettersson struggled so much.

All in all it was tough to watch him struggle to find time and space on the more crowded ice. He's too used to the size of the Allsvenskan rinks and/or the style of hockey played in that league. He excels when he has tons of soft ice and room to operate. He struggled when all that was taken away at the summer showcase. That is not good to see and is something he will need to improve in before he can even think of cracking the NHL. His slight frame and lack of strength are also years away but even still he shouldn't be struggling this much against 17-19 year olds. 

But if you want to ignore all that because it was a "competition" and not a "tournament" then be my guest I guess. I wouldn't want you to have to entertain any thoughts besides how awesome he is and what a steal he was at 5.


----------



## ijuka

TeddyBare said:


> Wow, Corey Pronman really hates this guy.
> 
> #49 on his top 100 Prospects.




This is pretty alarming. Pronman usually does extensive research for every prospect he talks about. In addition, Pronman is the type to favor absolute skill over other assets. Now, what makes this ranking even more troubling for Pettersson is the fact that Pettersson's biggest strength should be his absolute skill and ability with the puck. When a scout like Pronman, who even has a well known bias for "skill players", rates him low, you have to imagine that there is a very good reason for that.


----------



## TeddyBare

ijuka said:


> This is pretty alarming. Pronman usually does extensive research for every prospect he talks about. In addition, Pronman is the type to favor absolute skill over other assets. Now, what makes this ranking even more troubling for Pettersson is the fact that Pettersson's biggest strength should be his absolute skill and ability with the puck. When a scout like Pronman, who even has a well known bias for "skill players", rates him low, you have to imagine that there is a very good reason for that.






If he favored absolute skill than Bracco wouldn't be in the bottom 20.

It's a list as simple as that. To say something is alarming because of one guys opinion is hilarious.

I'd take Button's opinion over Pronman any day of the week


----------



## eddie416

TeddyBare said:


> Wow, Corey Pronman really hates this guy.
> 
> #49 on his top 100 Prospects.




Anywhere to see the full list that isn't behind a paywall?


----------



## Breakers

ijuka said:


> *This is pretty alarming*. Pronman usually does extensive research for every prospect he talks about. In addition, Pronman is the type to favor absolute skill over other assets. Now, what makes this ranking even more troubling for Pettersson is the fact that Pettersson's biggest strength should be his absolute skill and ability with the puck. When a scout like Pronman, who even has a well known bias for "skill players", rates him low, you have to imagine that there is a very good reason for that.





"Pretty Alarming" to me is something along the lines of if a prospect hurts his knee and rehab isn't going as planned.


----------



## Orca Smash

ijuka said:


> This is pretty alarming. Pronman usually does extensive research for every prospect he talks about. In addition, Pronman is the type to favor absolute skill over other assets. Now, what makes this ranking even more troubling for Pettersson is the fact that Pettersson's biggest strength should be his absolute skill and ability with the puck. When a scout like Pronman, who even has a well known bias for "skill players", rates him low, you have to imagine that there is a very good reason for that.




Your trying to hard at this point.

Because of pronmans rankings? What about other rankings that had him ranked around 5-8 and shoot up those rankings before the draft, they also do a ton of a research. And like all rankings can be good or a disaster.

Pronmans lists very rarely make sense, he hit a home run ranking nylander high but then had drasaitl going 7th. He is well know for draft results being all over the map and very hit and miss.

Pronman never liked him and when people disagreed with him it became a point to make for him. Time will tell.


----------



## firstemperor

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> It's funny how much **** Pettersson has got for his performance yet there hasn't even been one comment in the Glass thread about his performance.




Glass didn't look that great either at the WJSS. He's not talked about as much because Vegas is an expansion team and doesn't have a huge following on these boards versus Canuck fans.

The WJSS showed Pettersson is pretty physically immature and is going to be a bit of a project, which isn't necessarily a bad thing for where the Canucks are headed. Hopefully the Canucks brass works on his lower body strength/explosiveness in the gym and not repeat of Virtanen 2.0. It's hard to tell if the Canucks failed Virtanen or vice versa but its genuinely uncommon/rare for a higher-end prospect get chubbier post-draft.


----------



## farshi

firstemperor said:


> Glass didn't look that great either at the WJSS. He's not talked about as much because Vegas is an expansion team and doesn't have a huge following on these boards versus Canuck fans.
> 
> The WJSS showed Pettersson is pretty physically immature and is going to be a bit of a project, which isn't necessarily a bad thing for where the Canucks are headed. Hopefully the Canucks brass works on his lower body strength/explosiveness in the gym and not repeat of Virtanen 2.0. It's hard to tell if the Canucks failed Virtanen or vice versa but its genuinely uncommon/rare for a higher-end prospect get chubbier post-draft.




It is not hard to tell, virtanen did it to himself he got fat in his D+1 too before he even got to the canucks.


----------



## Grantham

IComeInPeace said:


> Agree with everything you posted.
> 
> A great test for him, and I expect him to really struggle until probably the half way point of the season.




Thanks! WE will hopefully get a chance to see him next week, Aug 24. Champions Hockey League tournament begins. His first game with his new team.


----------



## CherryToke

Why do you people care so much about a WJSS exhibition tourny?  Completely meaningless evaluation IMO.. I will reserve judgement.


----------



## CanaFan

Tryampled said:


> Why do you people care so much about a WJSS exhibition tourny?  Completely meaningless evaluation IMO.. I will reserve judgement.




If it's meaningless guess why do they hold it?

And even if it is "meaningless" it still isn't good to see a player struggle against his peer group. Mittelstadt excelled. Brannstrom excelled. Yamamoto excelled. Why couldn't Pettersson do the same? Cause he didn't think the games "meant enough"?


----------



## NoRaise4Brackett

CanaFan said:


> If it's meaningless guess why do they hold it?
> 
> And even if it is "meaningless" it still isn't good to see a player struggle against his peer group. Mittelstadt excelled. Brannstrom excelled. Yamamoto excelled. Why couldn't Pettersson do the same? Cause he didn't think the games "meant enough"?




Maybe playing hurt had something to do with it?


----------



## CanaFan

PassLikeA10YrOldBoy said:


> Maybe playing hurt had something to do with it?




That's a possibility. But for a "meaningless" summer showcase I would expect it wasn't bothering him too much or else he'd have just sat out.


----------



## NoRaise4Brackett

CanaFan said:


> That's a possibility. But for a "meaningless" summer showcase I would expect it wasn't bothering him too much or else he'd have just sat out.




I would suspect he knows he's on the team no matter what, and there is no mistaking it: he was playing through something. Obviously he was ok enough to play through it, but did it affect his play and how much? None of us know, we only know he was hurt. Then take into consideration what would be more important to him; going all out it in a summer camp where his spot is already locked up, or pushing too hard and making his injury worse... causing him to miss strength training for the rest of the offseason and starting the season playing catchup from a physical standpoint, which is possibly his biggest weakness.

Not sure I buy into the whole sitting out option. It really depends on the injury.


----------



## CanaFan

PassLikeA10YrOldBoy said:


> I would suspect he knows he's on the team no matter what, and there is no mistaking it: he was playing through something. Obviously he was ok enough to play through it, but did it affect his play and how much? None of us know, we only know he was hurt. Then take into consideration what would be more important to him; going all out it in a summer camp where his spot is already locked up, or pushing too hard and making his injury worse... causing him to miss strength training for the rest of the offseason and starting the season playing catchup from a physical standpoint, which is possibly his biggest weakness.
> 
> Not sure I buy into the whole sitting out option. It really depends on the injury.




Well from watching him he seemed to be giving it his all so I commend him on that. His issue was largely being pressured and being unable to escape or execute passes with the pressure. Now if it hurt his agility or ability to elude pressure then that could be a fair excuse, it wasn't readily apparent watching if that was the cause.


----------



## NoRaise4Brackett

CanaFan said:


> Well from watching him he seemed to be giving it his all so I commend him on that. His issue was largely being pressured and being unable to escape or execute passes with the pressure. * Now if it hurt his agility or ability to elude pressure then that could be a fair excuse*, it wasn't readily apparent watching if that was the cause.




And nobody really knows whether it did or not, so drawing conclusions from this tournament probably isn't a wise decision. It's even possible for a minor injury to have an effect on the mind, but as I don't know exactly what it is, it's impossible to determine.

Maybe he just needs time to adjust to the NA ice and pace, maybe the injury affected him, or maybe you're right and he just wasn't that good. Either way, I don't put much stock into these mid-offseason games, just like I didn't get all hyped up over Corrado when he was doing well a few years back.


----------



## CanaFan

PassLikeA10YrOldBoy said:


> And nobody really knows whether it did or not, so drawing conclusions from this tournament probably isn't a wise decision. It's even possible for a minor injury to have an effect on the mind, but as I don't know exactly what it is, it's impossible to determine.
> 
> Maybe he just needs time to adjust to the NA ice and pace, maybe the injury affected him, or maybe he just wasn't that good. Either way, I don't put much stock into these mid-offseason games, just like I didn't get all hyped up over Corrado when he was doing well a few years back.




Maybe. I wanted to see him play for the first time since drafting him and came away disappointed with his inability to possess the puck and create offense on small ice. It isn't the be all, end all of my evaluations but it is a piece of the puzzle. The problem is you can't post anything less than enthusiastic praise without having 5-6 Canuck fans (of which I am one) getting their backs up about it. It polarizes the discussion more than I'd like but that's how it goes I guess.


----------



## CherryToke

CanaFan said:


> If it's meaningless guess why do they hold it?




To give teams a better look at bubble players that will fill out the roster. The star players are all locks..


----------



## CanaFan

Tryampled said:


> To give teams a better look at bubble players that will fill out the roster. The star players are all locks..




Shoulda sat them then. I saw lots of "stars" play great, guess nobody told Pettersson he could too?


----------



## NoRaise4Brackett

CanaFan said:


> Maybe. I wanted to see him play for the first time since drafting him and came away disappointed with his inability to possess the puck and create offense on small ice. It isn't the be all, end all of my evaluations but it is a piece of the puzzle. * The problem is you can't post anything less than enthusiastic praise without having 5-6 Canuck fans (of which I am one) getting their backs up about it.* It polarizes the discussion more than I'd like but that's how it goes I guess.




And on the flip side, you seem to have almost taken it upon yourself to tell HFCanucks they should temper their expectations. Maybe try taking a break and ignoring the "90 points for Elias" crowd? I dunno. You used to post very differently, but I think it was the Shinkaruk trade that changed everything, IIRC. Either way, there are extremes from both sides, just gotta pick your battles I guess. I'd rather be glass 1/2 full and stay positive... but I won't claim 90 points  Don't mean to sound rude, I think you're a good poster and enjoy reading your posts for the most part, just tseem to focus on the nagative too much for me. cheers


----------



## Get North

CanaFan said:


> Shoulda sat them then. I saw lots of "stars" play great, guess nobody told Pettersson he could too?



I know you're trying to prove all these guys wrong because of their excuses for Pettersson, but I would just let it go at this point. You made your point, I think everyone can agree that Pettersson did not look good at all in this showcase. I can't really point to any reasons why he was so poor in the showcase, but had a good season in Allvenskan other than small ice and maybe the junior players are just quicker than players in the Allvenskan? Many players playing in this tournament are future NHLers. It felt like Pettersson didn't have enough time with the puck, couldn't skate himself out of trouble/create space. 

For the record, I was hoping for either Vilardi or Glass. I think Glass and Pettersson struggled for similar reasons at this showcase. They aren't as strong as the other players here or quick as the other players. At the junior level, athleticism, speed, and skill dominate these type of games. Junior hockey lacks structure and structured hockey is where smart hockey players usually excel like Pettersson and Glass.


----------



## firstemperor

farshi said:


> It is not hard to tell, virtanen did it to himself he got fat in his D+1 too before he even got to the canucks.




Assuming your correct, that's a failure on the Canucks management/player development. At the end of the day, your drafting teenagers or very young adults and some need the right push.


----------



## CanaFan

PassLikeA10YrOldBoy said:


> And on the flip side, you seem to have almost taken it upon yourself to tell HFCanucks they should temper their expectations. Maybe try taking a break and ignoring the "90 points for Elias" crowd? I dunno. You used to post very differently, but I think it was the Shinkaruk trade that changed everything, IIRC. Either way, there are extremes from both sides, just gotta pick your battles I guess. I'd rather be glass 1/2 full and stay positive... but I won't claim 90 points  Don't mean to sound rude, I think you're a good poster and enjoy reading your posts for the most part, just tseem to focus on the nagative too much for me. cheers




My take on prospects has evolved a bit from "happy to wait and see" to "show me something early or it's unlikely you'll become a top player". Top players show early that they are on that track and making excuses for why players don't show well early seems pointless to me. This probably applies more to Juolevi than Pettersson at the moment but I badly want Pettersson to show something amongst his peer group so that I can view him as a potentially elite player. I don't agree that I'm negative, more that I have higher expectations of players now that we are drafting 5th every year. These players shouldn't need 2-3 years to show well against kids their own age.


----------



## Lays

Marlander93 said:


> It is really unfortunate the Canucks ended up with EP. I was really pulling for them to get a premier top line player. There's always next year though.




I hope this is sarcasm


----------



## Breakers

Marlander93 said:


> It is really unfortunate the Canucks ended up with EP. I was really pulling for them to get a premier top line player. There's always next year though.






I was hoping for you guys to end up with a first pairing D-man through the draft.

Always next year though.


----------



## M2Beezy

Marlander93 said:


> It is really unfortunate the Canucks ended up with EP. I was really pulling for them to get a premier top line player. There's always next year though.




Yeah was hoping for Glass too 

Hopefully Pettey gets it together sooner then later. Hes still very young


----------



## Grantham

Canafan I hear you man...but as Get North and Passlike said, just be a little patient. I see really crazy potential with EP. The hockey brain he posses is genius, he just has a child's body atm.

Perhaps because I missed the summer showcase I'm a bit naive about this latest discussion, but I see a player that thinks the game at such a high level, that I think if he hits all the proper development milestones, we might have a really quality player.

I would keep an eye on how his season goes in the SEL. This is a team that will likely struggle, so no easy points for him. He'll also have to earn any ice time that he gets. This league is a true men's league, and only the NHL is clearly better. Thursday is his first game in a tournament, so I'm eager to see how he does.


----------



## CanaFan

Grantham said:


> Canafan I hear you man...but as Get North and Passlike said, just be a little patient. I see really crazy potential with EP. The hockey brain he posses is genius, he just has a child's body atm.
> 
> Perhaps because I missed the summer showcase I'm a bit naive about this latest discussion, but I see a player that thinks the game at such a high level, that I think if he hits all the proper development milestones, we might have a really quality player.
> 
> I would keep an eye on how his season goes in the SEL. This is a team that will likely struggle, so no easy points for him. He'll also have to earn any ice time that he gets. This league is a true men's league, and only the NHL is clearly better. *Thursday is his first game in a tournament, so I'm eager to see how he does*.




Agree with bolded. And re: Summer Showcase, I'm only talking about it because:

a) it is the most recent viewing of the player and recency is always important when trying to assess trajectory, and;

b) It's his age/peer group and played on NA size ice with NA style games. I respect that the Allsvenskan is a pro league but it's played quite a bit different than NA leagues and I'm curious to see how his skills and style of play translate to closer-to-NHL style of play.

Looking forward to his first Vaxjos game so the discussion can move on to something else.


----------



## lawrence

Lucbourdon said:


> Lmao




Reseob ot Etteduag's response is even funnier.


----------



## Henderson19

Three game tourney on small ice, and suddenly the sky has fallen. Wow. Okay, then. A few people have forgotten how to breathe. Or that players are not fully formed a two mere months after their draft date.

Reminds me why I only check in occasionally. Hyperventilation is not an attribute. 

No dog in this fight. Canucks got a high ceiling, low floor player. Skills you cannot teach. Lets see what he can do.


----------



## Maplebeasts

I still think very highly of him as a player. Slight frame, but has absolutely ridiculous hands, good playmaking instincts, and elusivity as a skater. I have no problems saying he's the highest upside forward in the draft, even over Nico and Nolan. The problem is that he's got a low floor due to his slight frame, general lack of strength, and below average speed for a player his size. I find his play away from the puck to be effective and more about positioning and quick stick work. I'm an optimist in his case though and see him turning into a 70+ point guy who doesn't look out of place without the puck. Love this pick.


----------



## Rey

Lets be real here though, we all know it was a weak draft. EP is a risk, as is everyone in the draft. Even the No 1 and 2, might not turn into anything much than role players so try not to project the players based on their draft ranking, which i believe many people are doing. Could he be good? Sure, but so can anyone else in the damn draft. Looking at Vancouver's past draft history in the past dozen years, ugh you might wanna keep those expectations low unless you want another potential heartbreak.


----------



## Colt.45Orr

fwiw: EP had an assist in the game against Canada and I have absolutely no clue why it wasn't given to him. 

Obviously it isn't a big deal but then we wouldn't have people focusing on him not getting "any points". He didn't look as good at the end as he did at the start so it does seem likely that he picked up a (playable) knock along the way. 


I don't like the Canucks at all, but watching him you could see that he is really subtle smart and I wasn't surprised to hear him get singled out by his coach as the most skilled Swede. All of these recent draft picks would benefit from putting on weight/muscle but none of them as much as EP. The Sedins spent an extra year in Sweden bulking up post-draft, no? Seemed to turn out for them w a scoring title and all that.


----------



## IComeInPeace

2 assists in 2 games for Vaxjo, including setting up the GWG, as his Lakers team wins the tournie.


----------



## ijuka

Hmm... I actually expected VÃ¤xjÃ¶ to be more dominant. Only beat Lukko 6-4, which was a bottom dweller in Liiga last season.


Certainly a nice start for him of course, however.

http://hctps.kepit.tv/

VODs available here but they're super expensive considering the product so I won't be able to see them, unfortunately.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

You cant teach that kind of hockey IQ


----------



## ijuka

Vision... not IQ. Man. 

I feel like any play that looks remotely nice is now "high hockey IQ".


----------



## Canucks LB

Such a fun player to watch


----------



## Elias Pettersson

ijuka said:


> Vision... not IQ. Man.
> 
> I feel like any play that looks remotely nice is now "high hockey IQ".




vision is a part of hockey IQ 

It's the reason why players classified as low IQ players are the ones who wont make smart passes


----------



## ijuka

Elias Pettersson said:


> vision is a part of hockey IQ
> 
> It's the reason why players classified as low IQ players are the ones who wont make smart passes




Hockey IQ is something completely different. It's understanding of the game, the flow. You rarely see hockey IQ in highlight plays. You might, of course. But I watched that replay probably 5 times looking for the displays of high hockey IQ and didn't find it. If he saw him and was physically able to make the pass with one touch, that was an obvious play. Wide open.

By the way, here I'm not saying that he didn't have high hockey IQ that game, or that his hockey IQ wouldn't be good in general. But that specific play doesn't specifically show high hockey IQ to me.

I look for difficult, correct decisions. Not obvious ones. They rarely make the highlights.


----------



## Grantham

ijuka said:


> Hockey IQ is something completely different. It's understanding of the game, the flow. You rarely see hockey IQ in highlight plays. You might, of course. But I watched that replay probably 5 times looking for the displays of high hockey IQ and didn't find it. If he saw him and was physically able to make the pass with one touch, that was an obvious play. Wide open.
> 
> By the way, here I'm not saying that he didn't have high hockey IQ that game, or that his hockey IQ wouldn't be good in general. But that specific play doesn't specifically show high hockey IQ to me.




Why such nitpicking? That very well may be your own definition of the terms, but we/I don't have to agree with it.


----------



## ijuka

Grantham said:


> Why such nitpicking? That very well may be your own definition of the terms, but we/I don't have to agree with it.



It's not "my own definition". 

It's like pointing at a great pass and saying "look at how good a shot he has!".

It's not nitpicking either. Think about why some players have issues playing in NHL due to a lack of hockey IQ. It's not because they don't see the brilliant passes.


----------



## Bleach Clean

Grantham said:


> Why such nitpicking? That very well may be your own definition of the terms, but we/I don't have to agree with it.





I think he's more right than he is wrong. There will never be full agreement on what a generic hockey term means. However, if we want to start parsing what it does not mean, ijuka is closer to defining what hockey IQ is than the reverse. 

He's describing the differences between hockey IQ and vision. They are not the same thing.


----------



## Grantham

Okay, fair point. To me there was an element of Hockey IQ in this play, but I could see why one could argue it is more strictly about vision.


----------



## CanaFan

Ronning On Empty said:


> I think he's more right than he is wrong. There will never be full agreement on what a generic hockey term means. However, if we want to start parsing what it does not mean, ijuka is closer to defining what hockey IQ is than the reverse.
> 
> He's describing the differences between hockey IQ and vision. They are not the same thing.




To me it showed nice hands and a deft touch to one time the pass perfectly. The vision/IQ was less evident since the entire play was building up to that pass and the other team was chasing the puck (on a PK it looks like) like idiots.

Basically nice hands more than any breathtaking vision or IQ. Would have been easy to whiff on the puck or miss the lane to the player, so that stood out for me.


----------



## Bourdon

ijuka said:


> Hockey IQ is something completely different. It's understanding of the game, the flow. You rarely see hockey IQ in highlight plays. You might, of course. But I watched that replay probably 5 times looking for the displays of high hockey IQ and didn't find it. If he saw him and was physically able to make the pass with one touch, that was an obvious play. Wide open.
> 
> By the way, here I'm not saying that he didn't have high hockey IQ that game, or that his hockey IQ wouldn't be good in general. But that specific play doesn't specifically show high hockey IQ to me.
> 
> I look for difficult, correct decisions. Not obvious ones. They rarely make the highlights.




To a certain extent, you're right. For example, a goal scorer like Ovechkin has high hockey IQ, because he's able to understand scoring angles, drift into dead areas, uncheck himself at the right times, etc. But Ovechkin doesn't necessarily have great vision for the game, though he is an underrated passer. 

While hockey IQ isn't necessarily mutually exclusive with hockey vision, hockey vision is more often than not mutually exclusive with hockey IQ. You are not going to have a high end playmaker with poor hockey IQ. Hockey is not about difficult decisions at all, just best decisions. Hockey is about understanding the game at a high level where there is an obvious "solution" for every "problem", as well as timing. Chemistry between players is being able to predict what the other player will do with a high degree of accuracy. 

In this particular play, as soon as the puck gets tossed into the middle of the ice, Elias is opening his body up and pushing deeper into the zone to get a better passing lane to the eventual goal scorer, #19. Elias understands that this needs to be a timing play because there are 3 opposing players between him and #19. The pass needs to be there as soon as possible. He processes all of this before the puck even hits his stick, and the puck is barely on his stick at that. How is that not a display of high hockey IQ?


----------



## Jack Burton

IComeInPeace said:


> 2 assists in 2 games for Vaxjo, including setting up the GWG, as his Lakers team wins the tournie.






I wasn't able to watch any of the games but I'm curious to know how the coach deployed him? Does anybody know if he was playing C or wing? How about what line was he on?


----------



## Orca Smash

MrJohnnyCanuck said:


> I wasn't able to watch any of the games but I'm curious to know how the coach deployed him? Does anybody know if he was playing C or wing? How about what line was he on?




He was on the 3rd line, no idea what position.


----------



## ijuka

Bourdon said:


> To a certain extent, you're right. For example, a goal scorer like Ovechkin has high hockey IQ, because he's able to understand scoring angles, drift into dead areas, uncheck himself at the right times, etc. But Ovechkin doesn't necessarily have great vision for the game, though he is an underrated passer.
> 
> While hockey IQ isn't necessarily mutually exclusive with hockey vision, hockey vision is more often than not mutually exclusive with hockey IQ. You are not going to have a high end playmaker with poor hockey IQ. Hockey is not about difficult decisions at all, just best decisions. Hockey is about understanding the game at a high level where there is an obvious "solution" for every "problem", as well as timing. Chemistry between players is being able to predict what the other player will do with a high degree of accuracy.
> 
> In this particular play, as soon as the puck gets tossed into the middle of the ice, Elias is opening his body up and pushing deeper into the zone to get a better passing lane to the eventual goal scorer, #19. Elias understands that this needs to be a timing play because there are 3 opposing players between him and #19. The pass needs to be there as soon as possible. He processes all of this before the puck even hits his stick, and the puck is barely on his stick at that. How is that not a display of high hockey IQ?




When you analyze things very romantically like that, you're going to find high hockey IQ for just about every player in just about every highlight. Sure, he does open his body and skate backwards, but I don't think it's a very difficult decision to make. The one time pass is good but mostly about execution. In that situation it obviously is going to be better than a slower solution - When the defense is unorganized you do want to take advantage of it quickly. So vision and execution are what I see there. I don't think it's particularly difficult to determine that passing to a guy who's open right next to the goal is a good play, and I don't find it especially impressive that he opens up his body and gets to a better passing lane, even though it was a good play. If you see a player who you want to pass to, obviously you want to be able to actually pass to them, and I think that what he did is just about the expected, obvious first choice. 


Now, this might be overly harsh of me and probably isn't entirely crucial. I just am a little tired of tiny, short clips with a great play and calling it high hockey IQ. It's very difficult to even argue about players' hockey IQ when the refutes are at the level of "look at this great pass". For analyzing hockey IQ, I think that scenarios with multiple seemingly viable options are crucial, and this can be a completely harmless play outside of any highlight reels. Especially situations without the puck are very interesting. Highlight reels often inflate perceived hockey IQ. 


And again, I'm not saying that that specific highlight shows that he's dumb or has low hockey IQ or anything. But I don't see the hockey IQ in specific displayed there as anything special, and that it's a play demonstrating vision and execution.



Sorry, I didn't mean to turn it into such an extended argument.


----------



## Grantham

@ ijuka: Very well explained. And I agree about how short clips can be deceptive regarding hockey IQ.


----------



## Lays

Elias Pettersson said:


> You cant teach that kind of hockey IQ





Elias is one of my favorite prospects and I was praying he was there when the Rangers picked but I expected more from a comment like that. That really is not impressive


----------



## Jason MacIsaac

Elias Pettersson said:


> You cant teach that kind of hockey IQ



You can't teach to pass the puck? He made a quick pass cross crease, David Clarkson could have made that pass.


----------



## Bjornar Moxnes

Speaking of hockey IQ. What if someone made excellent super smart plays and almost always 2 steps ahead of his opponents when not under extreme pressure, but when under extreme pressure makes poor choices with the puck. Then you have a person that makes smart plays but not super smart plays both under and not under pressure. Who is the "smarter" player?


----------



## mouser

Vali Maki Sushi said:


> Speaking of hockey IQ. What if someone made excellent super smart plays and was always 2 steps ahead of his opponents when not under extreme pressure, but when under extreme pressure makes poor choices with the puck. Then you have a person that makes smart plays but not super smart plays both under and not under pressure. Who is the "smarter" player?




Any successful NHL players you'd like to offer as an example of the dichotomy you describe?


----------



## Bjornar Moxnes

mouser said:


> Any successful NHL players you'd like to offer as an example of the dichotomy you describe?




No one I can think right off the top of my head, but I'm just asking for reference to get a better understanding of true hockey IQ, as from this thread alone it seems super subjective.


----------



## ijuka

Vali Maki Sushi said:


> No one I can think right off the top of my head, but I'm just asking for reference to get a better understanding of true hockey IQ, as from this thread alone it seems super subjective.




To me it sounds like player #1 just isn't used to the pace of the game. 

Generally, dealing with pressure is significantly easier if you know what to do in advance, which you would if you "saw 2 steps ahead". Hence, that scenario seems a little contradictory for me, especially if you imply it'd be due to hockey IQ rather than just simple inexperience.


----------



## Bjornar Moxnes

ijuka said:


> To me it sounds like player #1 just isn't used to the pace of the game.
> 
> Generally, dealing with pressure is significantly easier if you know what to do in advance, which you would if you "saw 2 steps ahead". Hence, that scenario seems a little contradictory for me, especially if you imply it'd be due to hockey IQ rather than just simple inexperience.




Here's the thing I know that being 2 steps ahead will severely reduce the pressure. However the thing is no one can always be 2 steps ahead, what if the times they aren't ahead they run into pressure and thus panic and make poor choices? Like player 2 will be under pressure 10 times a game, but player 1 will only be under pressure twice a game (This under exact same usage, partners, etc.), but fails miserably those 2 times. Player 2 still makes good plays those 10 times. Anyways I changed the original statement.


----------



## CherryToke

Vali Maki Sushi said:


> Speaking of hockey IQ. What if someone made excellent super smart plays and was always 2 steps ahead of his opponents when not under extreme pressure, but when under extreme pressure makes poor choices with the puck.




That sounds like quite the contradiction. If a player is always two steps ahead they will rarely if ever be under extreme pressure.


----------



## tfong

I find that pure hockey IQ plays rarely make the highlight reel because simply put, most times people with high hockey IQ are doing super simple things with near perfect precision 5-10 steps ahead. The smartest plays are not always (or mostly even) flashy because flashy plays carry elements of risk and the smartest plays usually have reduced risk, hence them being the "smart play".


----------



## Phil McKraken

Vali Maki Sushi said:


> Speaking of hockey IQ. What if someone made excellent super smart plays and almost always 2 steps ahead of his opponents when not under extreme pressure, but when under extreme pressure makes poor choices with the puck. Then you have a person that makes smart plays but not super smart plays both under and not under pressure. Who is the "smarter" player?




When are you not under extreme pressure though? The only thing I can think of is when the other team dumps the puck and goes for a change, and then you're not really in a situation to make smarter than average plays to begin with.


----------



## Hale The Villain

tfong said:


> I find that pure hockey IQ plays rarely make the highlight reel because simply put, most times people with high hockey IQ are doing super simple things with near perfect precision 5-10 steps ahead. The smartest plays are not always (or mostly even) flashy because flashy plays carry elements of risk and the smartest plays usually have reduced risk, hence them being the "smart play".




100% correct. This post should be stickied.


----------



## Breakers

You know what the difference between hockey IQ and Vision is ??????????? WHO CARES

This is a thread about Pettersson.


----------



## firstemperor

tfong said:


> I find that pure hockey IQ plays rarely make the highlight reel because simply put, most times people with high hockey IQ are doing super simple things with near perfect precision 5-10 steps ahead. The smartest plays are not always (or mostly even) flashy because flashy plays carry elements of risk and the smartest plays usually have reduced risk, hence them being the "smart play".




I think it's true to some extent, as a generalization but you have to exclude the absolutely elite players...like Malkin, McDavid, Matthews, Karlsson, Ovy, Crosby (strength on puck and his backhand). 

I'm not trying to be selective when I name them, because obviously- there are other elite players that have elements to their game that are elite (like Laine and his shot).

But some of the plays they do at top speed are absolutely ridiculous and video-game like. They definitely aren't simple or fundamentally sound. They simply function at such a higher plane of talent than others that they can pull the stuff they do off. 

Again, it's true to some extent but simply stating there needs to be some appreciation for the truly elite talent in today's game.


----------



## EK47

firstemperor said:


> I think it's true to some extent, as a generalization but you have to exclude the absolutely elite players...like Malkin, McDavid, Matthews, Karlsson, Ovy, Crosby (strength on puck and his backhand).
> 
> I'm not trying to be selective when I name them, because obviously- there are other elite players that have elements to their game that are elite (like Laine and his shot).
> 
> But some of the plays they do at top speed are absolutely ridiculous and video-game like. They definitely aren't simple or fundamentally sound. They simply function at such a higher plane of talent than others that they can pull the stuff they do off.
> 
> Again, it's true to some extent but simply stating there needs to be some appreciation for the truly elite talent in today's game.




I know Matthews is great and all but he isn't in the same tier as those other players. Not yet he may very well be as soon as the end of next season but not now.


----------



## snipes

Likes the perimeter


----------



## Marlander93

snipes said:


> Likes the perimeter




And skates really awkward


----------



## TeddyBare

ijuka said:


> *This is pretty alarming. Pronman usually does extensive research for every prospect he talks about. In addition, Pronman is the type to favor absolute skill over other assets.* Now, what makes this ranking even more troubling for Pettersson is the fact that Pettersson's biggest strength should be his absolute skill and ability with the puck. When a scout like Pronman, who even has a well known bias for "skill players", rates him low, you have to imagine that there is a very good reason for that.





Did he favor absolute skill when he put Sam bennett and Michael Dal Colle in his top 6 like 3 years ago.

Or Brandon Gormley, Curtis Lazar, & Griffin Reinhart in his top 15


What about Dylan Larkin and Travis Sanheim ranked 99, and 100 respectively.


----------



## elitepete

snipes said:


> Likes the perimeter




Although Oiler fans probably specialize in identifying perimeter players, Pettersson is not one.


----------



## firstemperor

EK47 said:


> I know Matthews is great and all but he isn't in the same tier as those other players. Not yet he may very well be as soon as the end of next season but not now.




Yeah that's fair


----------



## IComeInPeace

TeddyBare said:


> What about Dylan Larkin and Travis Sanheim ranked 99, and 100 respectively.



It's only _alarming _when it supports your position; the rest of the time _'it's only one scouts opinion.'_


----------



## Orca Smash

Agreed.


----------



## Roy Baby*

snipes said:


> Likes the perimeter




- guy who has never watched EP play


----------



## lawrence

snipes said:


> Likes the perimeter




The Sedins likes it too. Their offense generation most of the time starts from the perimeter.


----------



## ijuka

Scored a goal in CHL.


----------



## eddie416

Scored the tying goal today, also had a great chance to score the go ahead goal late in the game but it looked like the puck bounced on him. He's had a pretty good game today, especially the 3rd period

He's playing on the first line, and was out there to start OT


----------



## ihaveyuidonttouchme

eddie416 said:


> Scored the tying goal today, also had a great chance to score the go ahead goal late in the game but it looked like the puck bounced on him. He's had a pretty good game today, especially the 3rd period





yup got a lot more ice time after the goal too


----------



## IComeInPeace

Pretty sure that was the 'perimeter' he scored the game tieing goal from, right?


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

eddie416 said:


> Scored the tying goal today, also had a great chance to score the go ahead goal late in the game but it looked like the puck bounced on him. He's had a pretty good game today, especially the 3rd period
> 
> He's playing on the first line, and was out there to start OT




Impressive


----------



## Knight53

Full Game:


----------



## Roy Baby*

eddie416 said:


> Scored the tying goal today, also had a great chance to score the go ahead goal late in the game but it looked like the puck bounced on him. He's had a pretty good game today, especially the 3rd period
> 
> He's playing on the first line, and was out there to start OT










HEAT


----------



## Zombotron

IComeInPeace said:


> Pretty sure that was the 'perimeter' he scored the game tieing goal from, right?




That _was_ the perimeter. The... inside perimeter...? If you're not close enough to conduct a vulcan mind meld with the goalie, you're in the perimeter. My dad *said* so.


----------



## Canucks LB

Having a nice start, this is preseason right?

I love how he was on the 1st line now, and scored and had a ton of chances, nice!!


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

lucbourdon said:


> having a nice start, this is preseason right?
> 
> I love how he was on the 1st line now, and scored and had a ton of chances, nice!!



chl.


----------



## lawrence

IComeInPeace said:


> Pretty sure that was the 'perimeter' he scored the game tieing goal from, right?




it was the perimeter. 

He was in the perimeter of the goalie crease. Utilizing his awkward skating to get there.


----------



## wonton15

lawrence said:


> it was the perimeter.
> 
> He was in the perimeter of the goalie crease. Utilizing his awkward skating to get there.





Only got by because he's so slight and skinny. Weak shot that the goalie should've had


----------



## Amazing Kreiderman

Jason MacIsaac said:


> You can't teach to pass the puck? He made a quick pass cross crease, David Clarkson could have made that pass.




Good players make difficult plays look easy. This kid makes easy plays look difficult.


----------



## ijuka

Wow, man. Glad to see the confidence but that's a pretty strong reaction for 1 goal in a CHL game. Makes me a little jealous.


----------



## Jason MacIsaac

Amazing Kreiderman said:


> Good players make difficult plays look easy. This kid makes easy plays look difficult.



That wasn't a difficult play. I am getting sick of video's popping up from goals or assists where the comments are "WOW". Most times they are normal hockey plays, like Pettersson's goal yesterday. It's just a goal, not to mention a luck bounce on a broken play.


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

Its very sad to see how people are wanting a kid to fail.


----------



## Amazing Kreiderman

Jason MacIsaac said:


> That wasn't a difficult play. I am getting sick of video's popping up from goals or assists where the comments are "WOW". Most times they are normal hockey plays, like Pettersson's goal yesterday. It's just a goal, not to mention a luck bounce on a broken play.




Yes. Everything some of these kids do, is immediately labeled as a great play. I never saw the appeal in drafting EP that high, but that might just be me. He was impressive in the Allsvenskan, but people seem to forget that it is 2nd tier hockey in Sweden. Same with Makar who played in the AJHL and Junior A Challenge. It's nice they are dominant, but most prospects drafted in the 1st and 2nd round are expected to be dominant at lower level hockey. The Allsvenskan is a lot tougher than any junior league, of course. However, it's not the SHL


----------



## Elias Pettersson

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Its very sad to see how people are wanting a kid to fail.




It's cuz he got drafted by the canucks. Go back and read the draft thread before draft day. People were raving about him. Some were saying he's the most skilled player in the draft. 

Then he gets picked by the canucks and people get all jealous and salty. 

Let the haters keep hating. Who cares what they think?

It's easy to figure out the motivations behind the posters who come in here to bash. Iljuka hates swedes. The leafs fans hates canucks. And Kreiderman is salty that their team wanted Pettersson but was stuck with Andersson (read the Rangers draft GDT to see the meltdown). 

Ez


----------



## ijuka

Amazing Kreiderman said:


> Yes. Everything some of these kids do, is immediately labeled as a great play.




I definitely agree. It was a broken play and a lucky bounce with the puck just ending up on his stick. Certainly it's cool that he scored a goal, but nothing especially "wow" about it in my opinion. Considering that he's expected to be scoring in this league already when considering his draft pedigree(Nylander was a PPG player in SHL after being drafted later while being younger), this really should be business as usual. And it wasn't even against an SHL team. 

However, it wasn't a negative performance by him at least so that's something for the fans to be happy about, I guess.



Elias Pettersson said:


> It's easy to figure out the motivations behind the posters who come in here to bash. *Iljuka* hates swedes. The leafs fans hates canucks. And Kreiderman is salty that their team wanted Pettersson but was stuck with Andersson (read the Rangers draft GDT to see the meltdown).
> 
> Ez




Regardless of you for some reason adding an "L" to my username, the reason is actually that I'm kind of sad that the second rounder Eetu Luostarinen(who's only 2 months older)'s 1+1 game got completely ignored by the boards whereas this 1+0 performance gets so much traffic. But anyway, remember I actually was watching this game and that I was the first to report the goal in this thread exactly when it happened.


----------



## Grantham

For every one positive post about EP, there is three or four negative ones, that's where the "traffic" comes from in this thread.

I watched the whole game, and I only posted my impressions on the Canucks board because of this.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

ijuka said:


> Regardless of you for some reason adding an "L" to my username, the reason is actually that I'm kind of sad that the second rounder Eetu Luostarinen(who's only 2 months older)'s 1+1 game got completely ignored by the boards whereas this 1+0 performance gets so much traffic. But anyway, remember I actually was watching this game and that I was the first to report the goal in this thread exactly when it happened.




Sorry, my fingers are clumsy


----------



## Tomas W

Elias Pettersson said:


> It's cuz he got drafted by the canucks. Go back and read the draft thread before draft day. People were raving about him. Some were saying he's the most skilled player in the draft.
> 
> Then he gets picked by the canucks and people get all jealous and salty.
> 
> Let the haters keep hating. Who cares what they think?
> 
> It's easy to figure out the motivations behind the posters who come in here to bash. Iljuka hates swedes. The leafs fans hates canucks. And Kreiderman is salty that their team wanted Pettersson but was stuck with Andersson (read the Rangers draft GDT to see the meltdown).
> 
> Ez




Yeah its obvious Canuck hate, now fortunatly for Pettersson, its all in his own hands, if he want to become successfull in the NHL stage, he "just" need to put down the effort needed. That what matters, not somebody's "arm chair" prediction.

I am pretty sure the Canucks has other good prospects too, if EP dissapoint. Maybe Bo Horvat continue to develop, could be a good season from him coming up now.


----------



## lawrence

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Its very sad to see how people are wanting a kid to fail.





meh. assclowns will be assclowns. He struggled at the showcase, he gets barraged by haters.

he plays well, he also gets barraged by haters, and no one else is allowed to post anything remotely positive. even the news of him being moved from the 3rd line to the 1st line is a no no to Jason Mciassac and Kriederman and his expertise thinks number 5 was a far stretch, meanwhile his favourite team tried to move up to number 3 pick to draft Petterson. Making multiple posts about something. These 2 gentlemen probably wouldn't said the junk they said if he was drafted by Colorado or Las Vegas.



> Yeah its obvious Canuck hate, now fortunatly for Pettersson, its all in his own hands, if he want to become successfull in the NHL stage, he "just" need to put down the effort needed. That what matters, not somebody's "arm chair" prediction.




what the **** does his success have to do with others? If he fails he is going to be trashed? 
what the heck does his success have to do with a Rangers fan, or some clown that follows a team in the East probably.





> I only posted my impressions on the Canucks board because of this.



post it here. **** these guys. seriously. when you have guys telling us we should have drafted Cody Glass (who did even less then Kole Lind who already did way less then Peterson) you know they have a different agenda. 



> That wasn't a difficult play. I am getting sick of video's popping up from goals or assists where the comments are "WOW". Most times they are normal hockey plays, like Pettersson's goal yesterday. It's just a goal, not to mention a luck bounce on a broken play.




can you add this thread to your ignore list please? These videos are gonna keep coming, and I don't want your nonsense in this thread. You probably hate the Canucks right? Yea? bingo. 

just ignore this thread man.


----------



## Orca Smash

Amazing Kreiderman said:


> Yes. Everything some of these kids do, is immediately labeled as a great play. I never saw the appeal in drafting EP that high, but that might just be me. He was impressive in the Allsvenskan, but people seem to forget that it is 2nd tier hockey in Sweden. Same with Makar who played in the AJHL and Junior A Challenge. It's nice they are dominant, but most prospects drafted in the 1st and 2nd round are expected to be dominant at lower level hockey. The Allsvenskan is a lot tougher than any junior league, of course. However, it's not the SHL




As you mention its alot tougher league then any jr league so im not sure why you bring up the ajhl or use it as a criticism its not the shl, if he put up those numbers in his draft year in the shl he would be considered one of the best prospects out of sweden and would have went first overall. But the fact he played in a mens league helped his draft value.

On another note this happens with every prospect we have from horvat (the amount of 3rd line should have drafted nichushkin talk was unbearable), to boeser, to juolevi.

A few posters always get a bit cocky or praise heavy whenever our prospect does something good in a game (likewise they also panic if they have a bad game we seen it recently) but when it comes to the praise over something minor it always ticks off other teams fans who want to bring them down to earth and threads like this ensue every year and go back and forth. It would be nice if the few posters refrain from getting to high anytime they do something good rushing in to post, but they will also tell me they are entitled to get excited about our prospects which is also true.


----------



## Orca Smash

Jason MacIsaac said:


> That wasn't a difficult play. I am getting sick of video's popping up from goals or assists where the comments are "WOW". Most times they are normal hockey plays, like Pettersson's goal yesterday. It's just a goal, not to mention a luck bounce on a broken play.




I hope if your sick of those comments you hold your fellow devils fans to that when your prospect scores a goal.


----------



## Laterade

He skates like Datsyuk


----------



## settinguptheplay

The goal wasn't just a broken play with a lucky bounce. There is another angle of that goal and it shows EP lifting the dmans stick just enough to take the puck away. Was actually quite brilliant in its simplicity.


----------



## Roy Baby*

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Its very sad to see how people are wanting a kid to fail.




These kids need to re evaluate their lives   

How strange do you gotta be to helicopter over a teenager that isn't even their prospect lmao So weird breh


----------



## lawrence

settinguptheplay said:


> The goal wasn't just a broken play with a lucky bounce. There is another angle of that goal and it shows EP lifting the dmans stick just enough to take the puck away. Was actually quite brilliant in its simplicity.




too positive of a comment. The hating Gangsters will be onto Canucks fans for that.


----------



## Canucks LB

Why is there so many negative posts from other teams fanbases?

Before the draft EP was loved on hf


----------



## firstemperor

Lucbourdon said:


> Why is there so many negative posts from other teams fanbases?
> 
> Before the draft EP was loved on hf




It's a very select minority your basing this on...far majority of the posts in this thread still like Pettersson moving forward.

There's obviously going to be some pessimism right now, to some degree though, because he's very much a project pick...and because of recency- he was a bit underwhelming at the WJSS. 

If the Leafs had the Nucks pick, I would have probably preferred Vilardi or Pettersson as well (only because I trust the current Leafs player development team/staff with projects)- not in years past.


----------



## LeafChief

Lucbourdon said:


> Why is there so many negative posts from other teams fanbases?
> 
> Before the draft EP was loved on hf




Go read the Liljegren threads lol. People are petty.

Pettersson is a hell of a prospect and realistically should have been picked even higher than he was.


----------



## 4thline

Lucbourdon said:


> Why is there so many negative posts from other teams fanbases?
> 
> Before the draft EP was loved on hf




Not trying to derail the thread, but I think Petterson backlash was inevitable if drafted by a large fanbase. 

Disclaimer- I'm very much a proponent of YoB U-xx style analysis over "Draft+x", and believe that 97% (exceptions being players developed solely in USHS) of late birthdays should be compared against their yob based performance cohort. Not looking to debate the pro's and cons of that, just present a point of view.

Disclaimer 2.0- I made posts to this effect on both the Leaf board and the original Petterson thread mid-season pre-draft.

Why it was inevitable- simple. Dissonant belief based on "draft year" projection cohorts. 

A. As a prospect relative to this draft- worthy of a top 5-10 pick, as much upside as any foward. IMO in this draft that translates to "good bet for top-6F, may exceed that and be a 1st liner if everything goes right"

As a prospect relative to historical comparables
B. (by draft year) best prospect out of Sweden in a decade or more, 1st line lock, realistic potential all-star. 

C. (by yob) among the lower end of the top group of recent Swedish forwards, good bet for top 6 F, may exceed that and be a 1st liner if everything goes right.

If B was true he should have been the unanimous top pick in this draft, thus the source of the dissonance. And nothing against Canucks fans, no matter who drafted him a portion of the fanbase was going to latch onto B (vested interest in it being true) while receiving pushback from the community at large who believe A/C.

That being said, his size throws a wrench into things. Being as effective as he is built like a 14 year old suggests that if he truly fills out all bets are off. Great pick


----------



## Elias Pettersson

HIGH IQ PLAY


----------



## docbenton

As a Vancouver fan I liked Pettersson but saw Mittelstadt as ahead in all offensive categories, including skating, puck-handling, shot, vision, decision-making quickness, and strength on the puck. Pettersson is probably ahead in defensive effort. So I didn't understand the pick in that sense, unless there were character issues that they were concerned about. Pettersson is certainly skilled and could turn out to be as good, but why not take the guy who's already a great player?

If you point to league scoring that's just stat-watching. Mittelstadt didn't have a lot to play with in high school or the USHL.


----------



## ijuka

Elias Pettersson said:


> HIGH IQ PLAY





Hard to judge with such aggressive cropping. Would have liked to see the 5 seconds before - "Is that the best chance that could be built there?". I can't help but feel like something more could have been possible to generate off that setting(Passing to a guy at a poor angle with a D in between him and the goal isn't amazing) but I didn't see it and without the video it's tough to say for sure.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

ijuka said:


> Hard to judge with such aggressive cropping. Would have liked to see the 5 seconds before - "Is that the best chance that could be built there?". I can't help but feel like something more could have been possible to generate off that setting(Passing to a guy at a poor angle with a D in between him and the goal isn't amazing) but I didn't see it and without the video it's tough to say for sure.




nah brah. it's high IQ for sure


----------



## VictorLustig

docbenton said:


> As a Vancouver fan I liked Pettersson but saw *Mittelstadt as ahead in all offensive categories, including skating, puck-handling, shot, vision, decision-making quickness, and strength on the puck.* Pettersson is probably ahead in defensive effort. So I didn't understand the pick in that sense, unless there were character issues that they were concerned about. Pettersson is certainly skilled and could turn out to be as good, but why not take the guy who's already a great player?
> 
> If you point to league scoring that's just stat-watching. Mittelstadt didn't have a lot to play with in high school or the USHL.




Well, that's not the case.


----------



## Jason MacIsaac

Orca Smash said:


> I hope if your sick of those comments you hold your fellow devils fans to that when your prospect scores a goal.



I'm ok with videos of their plays because videos are great. If they start commenting what a shot on an 81 mph slapshot that happened to beat some scrub goaltender then I'll chirp them too.


----------



## Orca Smash

docbenton said:


> As a Vancouver fan I liked Pettersson but saw Mittelstadt as ahead in all offensive categories, including skating, puck-handling, shot, vision, decision-making quickness, and strength on the puck. Pettersson is probably ahead in defensive effort. So I didn't understand the pick in that sense, unless there were character issues that they were concerned about. Pettersson is certainly skilled and could turn out to be as good, but why not take the guy who's already a great player?
> 
> If you point to league scoring that's just stat-watching. Mittelstadt didn't have a lot to play with in high school or the USHL.




You have posted this before on our boards and people already responded to you which you seem to suggest in your last sentence but then disregard it because it does not suit your opinion.

In my case it was down to vilardi and mittelstadt and pettersson, I removed casey the final few weeks, while I love his style of play the production in ushl vs petterssons production in a mens league tilted the scales for me along with petterssons even strength production was better although I in no way was one of the people freaking out about mittlestadts even strength production, I know its suppose to be an indicator of future success but to me if you are a PP quarterback with an excellent hockey mind you can still succeed and be valuable nhl player. You also can just never tell who will take that giant leap the following year in development nobody ever see's coming like a pastrnak so who knows maybe mittlestadt takes that leap this year. You cant just dismiss it as stat watching and that his team was not that great as an excuse because people will also point out that player on a weaker team then gets more opportunities (more pp minutes and ice time).

With that said mittelstadt reminds me a lot of nylander in play style actually, very smooth and creative player (Nylander however was better at even strength and was doing this in a more difficult league). I loved how he looked when I watched him I just felt even strength production and quality of leagues pettersson played in titled it in his favor. Vilardi played in a tougher league as well for most of the year and vilardis very young birthday and size intrigued me as well. I love casey's skating but you would be hard pressed to win an argument that his stick handling and vision is better then petterssons those are two of petterssons best strengths (although casey is very good at both as well).

This happens every year with our fanbase after the draft someone has a good game or good tournament and its why didnt we draft so and so i dont understand. People could be making the case for tolvanen after his hot start to.


----------



## Tomas W

4thline said:


> Not trying to derail the thread, but I think Petterson backlash was inevitable if drafted by a large fanbase.
> 
> Disclaimer- I'm very much a proponent of YoB U-xx style analysis over "Draft+x", and believe that 97% (exceptions being players developed solely in USHS) of late birthdays should be compared against their yob based performance cohort. Not looking to debate the pro's and cons of that, just present a point of view.
> 
> Disclaimer 2.0- I made posts to this effect on both the Leaf board and the original Petterson thread mid-season pre-draft.
> 
> Why it was inevitable- simple. Dissonant belief based on "draft year" projection cohorts.
> 
> A. As a prospect relative to this draft- worthy of a top 5-10 pick, as much upside as any foward. IMO in this draft that translates to "good bet for top-6F, may exceed that and be a 1st liner if everything goes right"
> 
> As a prospect relative to historical comparables
> B. (by draft year) best prospect out of Sweden in a decade or more, 1st line lock, realistic potential all-star.
> 
> C. (by yob) among the lower end of the top group of recent Swedish forwards, good bet for top 6 F, may exceed that and be a 1st liner if everything goes right.
> 
> If B was true he should have been the unanimous top pick in this draft, thus the source of the dissonance. And nothing against Canucks fans, no matter who drafted him a portion of the fanbase was going to latch onto B (vested interest in it being true) while receiving pushback from the community at large who believe A/C.
> 
> That being said, his size throws a wrench into things. Being as effective as he is built like a 14 year old suggests that if he truly fills out all bets are off. Great pick





The B category is out to lunch.
William Nylander is the best forward prospect from Sweden in the last decade. I saw him with my own eyes when he played in Sweden and saw his raw talent live. You didnt have to be a expert to tell he was special. His lack of size alone had to be the reason to why he was picked so late, because pick no 8 is really to late for Swedens best F prospect in years. I saw him play in the same team as Pastrnak and Nylander was better at that time (Pasta have had a great development since then though).


----------



## member 105785

LeafChief said:


> Go read the Liljegren threads lol. People are petty.
> 
> Pettersson is a hell of a prospect and realistically should have been picked even higher than he was.




That's different, Liljegren sucks


----------



## docbenton

Orca Smash said:


> You have posted this before on our boards and people already responded to you which you seem to suggest in your last sentence but then disregard it because it does not suit your opinion.
> 
> In my case it was down to vilardi and mittelstadt and pettersson, I removed casey the final few weeks, while I love his style of play the production in ushl vs petterssons production in a mens league tilted the scales for me along with petterssons even strength production was better although I in no way was one of the people freaking out about mittlestadts even strength production, I know its suppose to be an indicator of future success but to me if you are a PP quarterback with an excellent hockey mind you can still succeed and be valuable nhl player. You also can just never tell who will take that giant leap the following year in development nobody ever see's coming like a pastrnak so who knows maybe mittlestadt takes that leap this year. You cant just dismiss it as stat watching and that his team was not that great as an excuse because people will also point out that player on a weaker team then gets more opportunities (more pp minutes and ice time).
> 
> With that said mittelstadt reminds me a lot of nylander in play style actually, very smooth and creative player (Nylander however was better at even strength and was doing this in a more difficult league). I loved how he looked when I watched him I just felt even strength production and quality of leagues pettersson played in titled it in his favor. Vilardi played in a tougher league as well for most of the year and vilardis very young birthday and size intrigued me as well. I love casey's skating but you would be hard pressed to win an argument that his stick handling and vision is better then petterssons those are two of petterssons best strengths (although casey is very good at both as well).
> 
> This happens every year with our fanbase after the draft someone has a good game or good tournament and its why didnt we draft so and so i dont understand. People could be making the case for tolvanen after his hot start to.




If you've watched both it should be obvious Mittelstadt is a better stick-handler, he will consistently attack into traffic and put the puck through players, Pettersson doesn't have that kind of confidence, you will rarely see him do this, maybe a few instances in the highlights. Pettersson is smart but he doesn't think the game as quickly; you will see him not know what to do with the puck under pressure, make a bad pass or put a soft shot on the goalie, whereas Mittelstadt always has a play in mind, frequently makes creative timing plays through smalls spaces. Another criticism I have of Elias is he is too static on the PP, doesn't create enough movement or threaten the box enough himself, relies on making long cross-ice passes while the defense is under no pressure and thus not out of position. Some of this may be confidence, but he plays the same way at lower levels. 

Look I think Elias is a cool player and want him to do well, I like how he always has this cold, unimpressed expression on the face like an assassin, even though he's actually a humble, fun-loving kid. But comparing their play on the ice, Casey is clearly the better player right now. 

If you watch Tolvanen's KHL goals they are pretty much all from the outside, everyone knows he's got a great shot, but he'll find it hard to score those goals in the NHL. He's still a good player and has other offensive abilities, but that's why you watch them play...


----------



## Tryamkin

Wow this is still happening..

Come back in a few years. He's not ready and we can't rush him.


----------



## Orca Smash

docbenton said:


> If you've watched both it should be obvious Mittelstadt is a better stick-handler, he will consistently attack into traffic and put the puck through players, Pettersson doesn't have that kind of confidence, you will rarely see him do this, maybe a few instances in the highlights. Pettersson is smart but he doesn't think the game as quickly; you will see him not know what to do with the puck under pressure, make a bad pass or put a soft shot on the goalie, whereas Mittelstadt always has a play in mind, frequently makes creative timing plays through smalls spaces. Another criticism I have of Elias is he is too static on the PP, doesn't create enough movement or threaten the box enough himself, relies on making long cross-ice passes while the defense is under no pressure and thus not out of position. Some of this may be confidence, but he plays the same way at lower levels.
> 
> Look I think Elias is a cool player and want him to do well, I like how he always has this cold, unimpressed expression on the face like an assassin, even though he's actually a humble, fun-loving kid. But comparing their play on the ice, Casey is clearly the better player right now.
> 
> If you watch Tolvanen's KHL goals they are pretty much all from the outside, everyone knows he's got a great shot, but he'll find it hard to score those goals in the NHL. He's still a good player and has other offensive abilities, but that's why you watch them play...





Please dont turn this into a CM vs EP thread. I have watched both and attacking into traffic in hs to me is a completely different subject. This sounds like something cannafan posted. Elias stick handling in corners is excellent. In fact i will argue stick handling into traffic is going to be a much tougher ask in the nhl and we also wont agree he does not think the game as quickly, petterssons mind imo is one of his best assets. The fact you dont like him being static on the power play is also preference and could entirely be a coaching decision. He also may simply be able to generate and see passing lanes from a static position and it may not be an issue for him, casey likes to skate with the puck where as elias once his team gets set up likes to make quick touch passes and one timers. He also frequently carries the puck and creates plays on his zone entries. We also clearly disagree that mittlestadts stick handling is that far ahead of petterssons.

And I am not here to discuss tolvanens goals either now your just cherry picking things, scoring those goals regardless takes skill in a pro mens league, especially when your arguing for cm who played most his time in high school where you are calling him an already great player. Mittlestadt also has a deceptive shot he uses from the outside similar to tolvanens, i think he even displayed it in the buffalo camp.

If you want to debate this you can definately open a vs thread elsewhere but I dont want to turn this into more bickering in a pettersson thread vs buffalo fans and mittlestadt. Both are great prospects and imo it is very hard to say at this point who will be better, i pointed out why playing in a tougher league and producing 5 on 5 helped pettersson but you have dismissed that. Its anyones guess from here on out, lets see how things progress for both.


----------



## VictorLustig

I've been impressed by Pettersson in these preseason games. He's still noticeably weaker than everyone else on the ice but it's not as bad as last season. He's going to be such a dominant player in the SHL when he's strong enough to protect the puck and win board battles instead of falling down all the time. SHL games are a lot more structured so we will see how he handles that.


----------



## 4thline

Tomas W said:


> The B category is out to lunch.
> ...




I agree, but it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that whichever team drafted him was going to compare his U-19 draft year production to that of Nylander/Forsberg in their U-18 and get stars in their eyes


----------



## Luddowich

4thline said:


> I agree, but it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that whichever team drafted him was going to compare his U-19 draft year production to that of Nylander/Forsberg in their U-18 and get stars in their eyes



He's talking about Nylander, Pettersson is a better prospect than Forsberg was no matter how you compare them. Nylander was just dominant the second he started playing in Allsvenskan. Video game numbers where ever he's played.


----------



## Hale The Villain

Luddowich said:


> He's talking about Nylander, *Pettersson is a better prospect than Forsberg was no matter how you compare them.* Nylander was just dominant the second he started playing in Allsvenskan. Video game numbers where ever he's played.




Actually when you compare them at the same age, they look pretty darn similar statistically:

17YR old production

Forsberg
43GP-8G-9A-17P (Leksands, Allsvenskan)
6GP-5G-2A-7P (Sweden, WJC-U18)
6GP-0G-1A-1P (Sween, WJC-U20)

Pettersson
25GP-3G-6A-9P (Timra, Allsvenskan)
22GP-6G-8A-14P (Timra J20, Superelit)
7GP-1G-7A-8P (Sweden, WJC-U18)

18YR old production

Forsberg
38GP-15G-18A-33P (Leksands, Allsvenskan)
6GP-3G-2A-5P (Sweden, WJC-U20)

Pettersson
43GP-19G-22A-41P (Timra, Allsvenskan)
6GP-0G-1A-1P (Sweden, WJC-U20)


Not a whole lot of evidence to suggest Pettersson is a much better prospect. It's only if you compare their seasons by draft year that it appears Pettersson is the far better prospect, which obviously isn't the case.

Of course this is just a statistical comparison. When you consider that Forsberg had all the tools to be a top line forward (big, very good skater, great shot), whereas Pettersson is skinny as a rail, isn't a fast skater and doesn't have an elite shot, it should become obvious that Forsberg was the better prospect.


----------



## Tv9924

Hale The Villain said:


> Of course this is just a statistical comparison. When you consider that Forsberg had all the tools to be a top line forward (big, very good skater, great shot), whereas Pettersson is skinny as a rail, isn't a fast skater and doesn't have an elite shot, it should become obvious that Forsberg was the better prospect.



Couldn't you argue that Pettersson's lack of physical tools are a plus rather than a minus? He'll surely fill out and gain strength, and with added strength in his lower body he'll be faster and stronger on his skates. He's got a lot of room to grow. I'm not arguing that Pettersson is a better prospect than Forsberg was at the time, just talking about Pettersson in general.


----------



## VictorLustig

Hale The Villain said:


> Not a whole lot of evidence to suggest Pettersson is a much better prospect. It's only if you compare their seasons by draft year that it appears Pettersson is the far better prospect, which obviously isn't the case.
> 
> Of course this is just a statistical comparison. When you consider that Forsberg had all the tools to be a top line forward (big, very good skater, great shot), whereas Pettersson is skinny as a rail, isn't a fast skater and doesn't have an elite shot, it should become obvious that Forsberg was the better prospect.




Wouldn't call Forsberg a very good skater, the reason Washington didn't like him was because he lacked foot speed. Wouldn't say Forsberg had a better shot either at that age. You forgot to mention Pettersson's greatest asset, his IQ. Forsberg is nowhere near him when it comes to playmaking and smarts.

Saw a ton of both these players in Allsvenskan and Pettersson is the better prospect in my eyes.


----------



## Hale The Villain

Tv9924 said:


> Couldn't you argue that Pettersson's lack of physical tools are a plus rather than a minus? He'll surely fill out and gain strength, and with added strength in his lower body he'll be faster and stronger on his skates. He's got a lot of room to grow. I'm not arguing that Pettersson is a better prospect than Forsberg was at the time, just talking about Pettersson in general.




That argument would hold more weight if Pettersson put up his numbers in a more physical league than the Allsvenskan. I'm not convinced his slight stature has been all that much of an inconvenience, given that he's playing on big ice in a skill-focused league. When he's played on smaller ice against opponents that play physical, he's looked terrible. Pettersson seems very much like the kind of player who doesn't translate well to N.A hockey.

I'm also skeptical that Pettersson has that much filling out to do still. It's just not the case that players can fill out if they simply put in the work. Some players just can't put on weight, no matter what they do. Pettersson's tiny frame doesn't inspire much confidence; neither does his brother's struggles to put on weight.


----------



## VictorLustig

Hale The Villain said:


> That argument would hold more weight if Pettersson put up his numbers in a more physical league than the Allsvenskan. I'm not convinced his slight stature has been all that much of an inconvenience, given that he's playing on big ice in a skill-focused league. *When he's played on smaller ice against opponents that play physical, he's looked terrible*. Pettersson seems very much like the kind of player who doesn't translate well to N.A hockey.
> 
> I'm also skeptical that Pettersson has that much filling out to do still. It's just not the case that players can fill out if they simply put in the work. Some players just can't put on weight, no matter what they do. Pettersson's tiny frame doesn't inspire much confidence; neither does his brother's struggles to put on weight.




He wasn't terrible at the WJC and he was excellent at the U18 WJC.


----------



## ijuka

VictorLustig said:


> He wasn't terrible at the WJC and he was excellent at the U18 WJC.




Those are some loose definitions for "Excellent" and even "not terrible". 

1 assist in 6 games for a u19 top prospect is actually quite terrible. And while 8 points in 7 games as a u18 player in the u18 tournament is far better, it really isn't a very special performance either. He also was awful at Hlinka. 

Oh, and junior world championships aren't what I'd describe as physical.


What Pettersson really needs to prove is that he can play the game consistently at a basic level in SHL and doesn't just have some flashes here and there. He's not done it so far.


----------



## elitepete

ijuka said:


> Those are some loose definitions for "Excellent" and even "not terrible".
> 
> 1 assist in 6 games for a u19 top prospect is actually quite terrible. And while 8 points in 7 games as a u18 player in the u18 tournament is far better, it really isn't a very special performance either. He also was awful at Hlinka.
> 
> Oh, and junior world championships aren't what I'd describe as physical.
> 
> 
> What Pettersson really needs to prove is that he can play the game consistently at a basic level in SHL and doesn't just have some flashes here and there. He's not done it so far.




He was playing through injuries at both the WJC and the Hlinka.

I watched the Ivan Hlinka tournament and he didnt look that bad, just couldn't produce.


----------



## elitepete

Hale The Villain said:


> That argument would hold more weight if Pettersson put up his numbers in a more physical league than the Allsvenskan. I'm not convinced his slight stature has been all that much of an inconvenience, given that he's playing on big ice in a skill-focused league. When he's played on smaller ice against opponents that play physical, he's looked terrible. Pettersson seems very much like the kind of player who doesn't translate well to N.A hockey.
> 
> I'm also skeptical that Pettersson has that much filling out to do still. It's just not the case that players can fill out if they simply put in the work. Some players just can't put on weight, no matter what they do. Pettersson's tiny frame doesn't inspire much confidence; neither does his brother's struggles to put on weight.




The Canucks strength and conditioning coach examined him and came to the conclusion that he will be able to add on a lot of muscle mass.


----------



## DFAC

Very excited to see Elias develop, Canucks haven't had a prospect as exciting as him since ???


----------



## bigdog16

DFAC said:


> Very excited to see Elias develop, Canucks haven't had a prospect as exciting as him since ???




Since jake virtanen..


----------



## Mathew Barzal

bigdog16 said:


> Since jake virtanen..




*victim complex intensifies*


----------



## elitepete

bigdog16 said:


> Since jake virtanen..




it's hilarious how ill-informed outside fans are when it comes to the Canucks


----------



## IComeInPeace

Was he really voted the Player of the Game in on Saturday night?

Edit: I see he was voted MOTM.


----------



## Grantham

Mathew Barzal said:


> *victim complex intensifies*


----------



## eddie416

I'm a lifelong Canucks fan and liked the pettersson pick, but I must admit I do have some worries. He does have a very slight frame, it's not like he is skinny with broad shoulders. He may have trouble adding mass, but maybe not. 

Also, judging by recent play, mittlestadt definitely has a leg up on EP. He was stellar for the US in the world junior showcase, played better than EP did. Though I recall there being some worries about middelstadt going the vesey route had he been drafted by a Canadian team.

Who knows what happens in the future but that's the way I see it right now


----------



## Luddowich

ijuka said:


> What Pettersson really needs to prove is that he can play the game consistently at a basic level in SHL and doesn't just have some flashes here and there. He's not done it so far.



I mean, when was he supposed to prove that, this WILL be his first year in the SHL. He has already proven he's a pro player, just a step up physically. With the pro strength he would probably be a top 5 scorer this upcoming season in the SHL. The skill is without a doubt there, though he needs the physical strength.

I don't expect it but i wouldn't be overly shocked if he's a top 5 scorer this season.


----------



## gretskidoo

Why do so many people blatantly hate this kid? I know with ijuka it's about nationality, but with everyone else it surely isn't just because he was drafted by the Canucks? Is it because he's skinny?


----------



## Canucks LB

gretskidoo said:


> Why do so many people blatantly hate this kid? I know with ijuka it's about nationality, but with everyone else it surely isn't just because he was drafted by the Canucks? Is it because he's skinny?




Drafted by van honestly.

This thread was 99% positive, until he was drafted by van.

He lit up the canucks showcase, but was average at WJSS.


----------



## Scott Stevens

Lucbourdon said:


> Drafted by van honestly.
> 
> This thread was 99% positive, until he was drafted by van.
> 
> He lit up the canucks showcase, but was average at WJSS.




I doubt you are helping matters with your blindly homeristic keyboard warrioring.


----------



## Canucks LB

Jim Benning said:


> I doubt you are helping matters with your blindly homeristic keyboard warrioring.




????


----------



## ijuka

Luddowich said:


> I mean, when was he supposed to prove that, this WILL be his first year in the SHL. He has already proven he's a pro player, just a step up physically. With the pro strength he would probably be a top 5 scorer this upcoming season in the SHL. The skill is without a doubt there, though he needs the physical strength.
> 
> I don't expect it but i wouldn't be overly shocked if he's a top 5 scorer this season.




He needs to prove it this season, preferably.


----------



## CanaFan

Lucbourdon said:


> Drafted by van honestly.
> 
> This thread was 99% positive, until he was drafted by van.
> 
> He lit up the canucks showcase, but was average at WJSS.




Except it wasn't. Go back and read, there's the same mix of compliments of his skill and hockey sense peppered by questions about his strength and frame. 

The difference now is you have Canuck fans aggressively defending EP which escalates the tone of the posts. Pre-draft it was largely a mix of teams fans talking neutrally about a player they had watched. If someone felt he was too skinny it was discussed and debated but nobody got too worked up. Now the thread has Lawrence and others losing their **** at any post that doesn't heap love at the player. 

It's true that the change is due to him being drafted by Van, but mainly because suddenly a handful of Van fans decided they had to defend their precious prospect at every turn.

And he was not average at the SS, he was invisible.


----------



## Amazing Kreiderman

Lucbourdon said:


> Drafted by van honestly.
> 
> This thread was 99% positive, until he was drafted by van.
> 
> He lit up the canucks showcase, but was average at WJSS.




I always thought others would be a better choice than Pettersson. I am just not convinced he can transition to the NHL with the way he plays. Same goes for Makar.


----------



## Orca Smash

eddie416 said:


> I'm a lifelong Canucks fan and liked the pettersson pick, but I must admit I do have some worries. He does have a very slight frame, it's not like he is skinny with broad shoulders. He may have trouble adding mass, but maybe not.
> 
> *Also, judging by recent play, mittlestadt definitely has a leg up on EP. He was stellar for the US in the world junior showcase, played better than EP did. Though I recall there being some worries about middelstadt going the vesey route had he been drafted by a Canadian team.*
> 
> Who knows what happens in the future but that's the way I see it right now




Fair enough but where i disagree saying mittlestadt has a leg up based on a 3 day summer showcase in august. 

He did look much better at the summer showcase completely agreed but that is just to small of sample to make that statement imo especially given his production near the end in the ushl did tail off. This will be a big year for both like all prospects to see where they are at.


----------



## Luddowich

ijuka said:


> He needs to prove it this season, preferably.



I'm expecting around 25-35 points from him and would see that as a solid season, he was a project at draft day and nothing has changed to this day.
But then again, i've watched more than the WJSS and know that he has the skill and smarts to be a top 10 scorer this season, probably not top 5 since i just realized he'll miss games due to the WJC. But then again i never expected his historical season this season. What remains to be seen is if the physical part will match it.


----------



## Filthy Dangles

Is he most likely going to be playing with Timra in HockeyAllsvenskan this year again?


----------



## Willy Stylez

LiasAndersson said:


> Is he most likely going to be playing with Timra in HockeyAllsvenskan this year again?




No he will be playing with Vaxjo (SHL).


----------



## Filthy Dangles

Nifty Willy said:


> No he will be playing with VÃƒÂ¤xjÃƒÂ¶ (SHL).




Thanks

A bit OT, but how different is hockeyallsvenskan from SHL? They are both pro leagues but is HA more of a development league? Is there a significant gap in talent and competition? 

Do we expect him to get 1st line/top6 and PP time in SHL and any projection for his point totals


----------



## Luddowich

LiasAndersson said:


> Thanks
> 
> A bit OT, but how different is hockeyallsvenskan from SHL? They are both pro leagues but is HA more of a development league? Is there a significant gap in talent and competition?
> 
> Do we expect him to get 1st line/top6 and PP time in SHL and any projection for his point totals



Only "development league" in Sweden is the juniors. All these teams want to win so they'll be promoted to the higher tier (SHL<-Allsvenskan<-Division 1<-Division 2 etc.)
There is definitely a gap between the SHL and Allsvenskan and Allsvenskan is not as good as it has been the last few years but it's a loooooot better than what a lot of HFBoards posters make it out to be. At the end of the day it's a pro league with professional players who want to to take their team or take themselves to the next tier.

Like I've said previously, I'd say a 25-35 point season would be a solid season from him. But it all depends on how he'll transition. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he completely booms either. The skill is absolutely there. Not sure if the physical part is. Expect him to be the #2C at first look seeing how VÃ¤xjÃ¶ has Robert Rosen who can end up as one of the leagues top scorers. VÃ¤xjÃ¶ is a really good team so Pettersson will hopefully get some very talented and good linemates.


----------



## elitepete

Its ok to criticize him but when people make up nonsense like he's a perimeter player is what I have a problem with.


----------



## elitepete

Amazing Kreiderman said:


> I always thought others would be a better choice than Pettersson. I am just not convinced he can transition to the NHL with the way he plays. Same goes for Makar.




But Lias Andersseon will be a first liner, right?


----------



## SnoopDogg

I honestly just don't see him succeeding in the NHL. Don't feel bad though, I don't see him, Andersson, Rasmussen, Tippett, Vilardi, and many other players doing anything. I just get the feeling that they're gonna bust hard but that's just me personally, believe whatever the hell you want.


----------



## Knight53

CanaFan said:


> Except it wasn't. Go back and read, there's the same mix of compliments of his skill and hockey sense peppered by questions about his strength and frame.
> 
> The difference now is you have Canuck fans aggressively defending EP which escalates the tone of the posts. Pre-draft it was largely a mix of teams fans talking neutrally about a player they had watched. If someone felt he was too skinny it was discussed and debated but nobody got too worked up. Now the thread has Lawrence and others losing their **** at any post that doesn't heap love at the player.
> 
> *It's true that the change is due to him being drafted by Van, but mainly because suddenly a handful of Van fans decided they had to defend their precious prospect at every turn*.
> 
> And he was not average at the SS, he was invisible.




Kind of like you back in the day with Virtanen. You would lose it whenever someone called him the next Cooke/Torres and defend him endlessly. It was warranted back then because of concern about his IQ and tunnel vision.

Right now with Pettersson, we're talking about a prospect whose main concerns are strength and balance. Everything else is there for him to be a big point producer at the next level.

The posts about Pettersson aren't neutral anymore that's for damn sure. You have dumb posts like:

Oh, he needs to prove he can play consistently at the SHL level acting like that's a knock on him. How is he supposed to when he hasn't even played in the SHL yet.

He isn't on Forsberg level despite putting up just as impressive numbers at the same age. 

"When you consider that Forsberg had all the tools to be a top line forward (big, very good skater, great shot), whereas Pettersson is skinny as a rail, isn't a fast skater and doesn't have an elite shot, it should become obvious that Forsberg was the better prospect."

Fully knowing Forsberg is a finisher and Pettersson is a playmaker. One has an elite shot the other has elite vision and playmaking abilities, but because Pettersson is skinny as a rail he can't be a top line forward.

He is too weak gets outmuscled. Everyone knows this. He is a physical project. There is no point complaining about this right now. He is 2 years minimum unless he destroys the SHL this year away from being a finished product. It's a different story if he hasn't put on muscle mass a year from now and that will be on the Canucks Management.

If he is this talented right now while being so physically underdeveloped that should be an exciting thing. His Upside is immense.

He is a perimeter player. Completely untrue.

In the Champions league, he scores a nice goal that is very datsyukian like. Couple posters don't like Canucks fans being excited and rush in and say meh lucky bounce lol.

IIFC correctly these were your concerns.

Might have trouble playing on a smaller ice surface. He put up 8 points in 7 games at the u18 WJC on smaller ice. He was good at this past WJC in a secondary offensive role despite not putting the puck in the net.

You are putting to much stock in the WJSS- 3 games where he was injured and said him self he didn't have the pressure of putting up five points every game. He did put up 2 points in those 3 games while hitting a post in the last game though. He is a lock for team Sweden and he was there last WJC already unlike many other prospects who have to go all out and leave an impression on the coaches.

With added muscle mass and Lower body strength, he will start succeeding on the smaller ice surface where there is less time and space and defenders draped all over him.

Another concern was he hasn't dominated his peers. Last time I checked he is going to be playing against men in the NHL/AHL and so far he has been phenomenal in the Allsvenskan league and hasn't missed a beat in the Champions league tournament.

This was the type of pick the Canucks should have made in 2014 with Ehlers/Nylander.

High IQ, Vision, Playmaking, Hands, Shot he has all those things going for him and some of the things he does on the ice and the way he reads the game is unteachable. The strength and balance will come. Once everything comes together you'll see the results start to increase especially on the smaller ice surface.


----------



## CanaFan

Knight53 said:


> Kind of like you back in the day with Virtanen. You would lose it whenever someone called him the next Cooke/Torres and defend him endlessly. It was warranted back then because of concern about his IQ and tunnel vision.
> 
> Right now with Pettersson, we're talking about a prospect whose main concerns are strength and balance. Everything else is there for him to be a big point producer at the next level.
> 
> The posts about Pettersson aren't neutral anymore that's for damn sure. You have dumb posts like:
> 
> Oh, he needs to prove he can play consistently at the SHL level acting like that's a knock on him. How is he supposed to when he hasn't even played in the SHL yet.
> 
> He isn't on Forsberg level despite putting up just as impressive numbers at the same age.
> 
> "When you consider that Forsberg had all the tools to be a top line forward (big, very good skater, great shot), whereas Pettersson is skinny as a rail, isn't a fast skater and doesn't have an elite shot, it should become obvious that Forsberg was the better prospect."
> 
> Fully knowing Forsberg is a finisher and Pettersson is a playmaker. One has an elite shot the other has elite vision and playmaking abilities, but because Pettersson is skinny as a rail he can't be a top line forward.
> 
> He is too weak gets outmuscled. Everyone knows this. He is a physical project. There is no point complaining about this right now. He is 2 years minimum unless he destroys the SHL this year away from being a finished product. It's a different story if he hasn't put on muscle mass a year from now and that will be on the Canucks Management.
> 
> If he is this talented right now while being so physically underdeveloped that should be an exciting thing. His Upside is immense.
> 
> He is a perimeter player. Completely untrue.
> 
> In the Champions league, he scores a nice goal that is very datsyukian like. Couple posters don't like Canucks fans being excited and rush in and say meh lucky bounce lol.
> 
> IIFC correctly these were your concerns.
> 
> Might have trouble playing on a smaller ice surface. He put up 8 points in 7 games at the u18 WJC on smaller ice. He was good at this past WJC in a secondary offensive role despite not putting the puck in the net.
> 
> You are putting to much stock in the WJSS- 3 games where he was injured and said him self he didn't have the pressure of putting up five points every game. He did put up 2 points in those 3 games while hitting a post in the last game though. He is a lock for team Sweden and he was there last WJC already unlike many other prospects who have to go all out and leave an impression on the coaches.
> 
> With added muscle mass and Lower body strength, he will start succeeding on the smaller ice surface where there is less time and space and defenders draped all over him.
> 
> Another concern was he hasn't dominated his peers. Last time I checked he is going to be playing against men in the NHL/AHL and so far he has been phenomenal in the Allsvenskan league and hasn't missed a beat in the Champions league tournament.
> 
> This was the type of pick the Canucks should have made in 2014 with Ehlers/Nylander.
> 
> High IQ, Vision, Playmaking, Hands, Shot he has all those things going for him and some of the things he does on the ice and the way he reads the game is unteachable. The strength and balance will come. Once everything comes together you'll see the results start to increase especially on the smaller ice surface.




Except I never called posters trolls or haters wrt Virtanen. I disagreed and argued my points against theirs, which is what these threads are for. As it turned out I was wrong about Virtanen and I've taken my lumps for it, but that hasn't changed how I argue or debate. If anyone wants to disagree with me on Pettersson's SS performance they are welcome to. I've never said he was a bust based on those games but it did raise concerns for me about how his game translates from big rinks to small. I've never seen a player excel so much in SEL / Allsvenskan games yet struggle so much against 17-19 year old kids on NA ice. By rights he should be dominant against kids his age or younger considering the size/ strength gap is not that big vs what he'll face in the NHL. You say he'll fill out and catch up, but I'm not sure he ever will. And will his skating be good enough to be as elusive as guys like Kane and Datsyuk? Maybe someday but it isn't now.

As for his previous games on small ice, he was mediocre at the last WJC, decent at the U18's (18th in scoring), and invisible at the SS. In none of those tourney's / series has he looked remotely like a top end prospect or a future top centre in the NHL. Being decent doesn't translate to a top player.

As for other posters, it's not my job to defend their arguments as they are not mine but it would make for a much better thread to either ignore posts you think are trolls or debate people on merits you think are wrong. Calling people trolls and haters only encourages more actual trolling by escalating the aggressive tone in the thread. I'm not giving my opinion to troll anyone and I doubt these other posters are either, except in a few cases. 

Regardless, I've said my piece on EP and his play in the SS. At this point there's not much more to dissect until the SEL season starts and then the WJC. I'm happy to continue this then and hopefully he is showing well for the sake of my team! But being a Canuck fan isn't going to stop me from trying to be objective on a player when I get to watch him play.


----------



## Marlander93

SnoopDogg said:


> I honestly just don't see him succeeding in the NHL. Don't feel bad though, I don't see him, Andersson, Rasmussen, Tippett, Vilardi, and many other players doing anything. I just get the feeling that they're gonna bust hard but that's just me personally, believe whatever the hell you want.




Agreed 100%.


----------



## Lays

birds in the trap said:


> But Lias Andersseon will be a first liner, right?




Andersson has a good argument at being a better prospect than Pettersson, he pro-ready right now and his stats were better than Nylanders and close to Backstrom's. All while being elite defensively (for his age) I'm not saying he will be better than them (I seriously doubt it and am 99% positive) but it's a sign of good things, he plays a more "NHL game" than EP and he definitely has 1st line potential. Was miles ahead of EP at Hlinka. EP has much more potential though. I would legitimately take him over EP although it is very close, I dont expect anyone to agree though

Vancity have a great prospect in EP though and he was my favorite prospect pre-draft, was seeing him ranked a lot 15+ early in the year and I have been saying he should go from 5-10 before most did. Both are great prospects


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

This is the drafts best prospect. The criticisms aren't very good ones.


----------



## DFAC

The SHL should be underway in 2-3 weeks, excited to follow him!!


----------



## clunk

Reasonable, non biased projections for what you see him as long term?

I'm going to say 65 point peak season, but a guy who puts up 50-55~ points on average with 1st minute powerplay time. Good two way 1st line center, but never really a catalyst.

I think he turns out a similar career to Derek Stepan.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

clunk said:


> Reasonable, non biased projections for what you see him as long term?
> 
> I'm going to say 65 point peak season, but a guy who puts up 50-55~ points on average with 1st minute powerplay time. Good two way 1st line center, but never really a catalyst.
> 
> I think he turns out a similar career to Derek Stepan.




Pavel Datsyuk-ish


----------



## Josepho

...datsyuk was probably the best player in the nhl in the mid 2000s...



SnoopDogg said:


> I honestly just don't see him succeeding in the NHL. Don't feel bad though, I don't see him, Andersson, Rasmussen, Tippett, Vilardi, and many other players doing anything. I just get the feeling that they're gonna bust hard but that's just me personally, believe whatever the hell you want.




Andersson is an extremely safe bet to at least be an Elias Lindholm type in my mind. Players with his combination of strength, frame and smarts do not outright bust.


----------



## Amazing Kreiderman

birds in the trap said:


> But Lias Andersseon will be a first liner, right?




Is this based on me being a Rangers fan? Because I never said anywhere that Andersson is a sure-fire 1st liner. But nice try


----------



## elitepete

Amazing Kreiderman said:


> Is this based on me being a Rangers fan? Because I never said anywhere that Andersson is a sure-fire 1st liner. But nice try




I'm guessing that you just *happen* to think Lias Andersson will be amazing.


----------



## elitepete

SnoopDogg said:


> I honestly just don't see him succeeding in the NHL. Don't feel bad though, I don't see him, Andersson, Rasmussen, Tippett, Vilardi, and many other players doing anything. I just get the feeling that they're gonna bust hard but that's just me personally, believe whatever the hell you want.




Casey Mittelstadt won't though, right?


----------



## Luddowich

Josepho said:


> ...datsyuk was probably the best player in the nhl in the mid 2000s...
> 
> 
> 
> Andersson is an extremely safe bet to at least be an Elias Lindholm type in my mind. Players with his combination of strength, frame and smarts do not outright bust.



No matter what anyone says, if you watch him play you'll see why he made that comparison. At least stylistically, but i'm not going to argue against people not believing in him anymore since it's absolutely pointless. People have already made up their mind from their "gut feeling" even though Datsyuk can be a bit far fetched, but Pettersson no doubt has the talent to end up the best player from this draft.

Interesting comparison between Lindholm and Andersson seeing how they share little in common apart from being Swedish and drafted centers.


----------



## SnoopDogg

birds in the trap said:


> Casey Mittelstadt won't though, right?



I don't think he will and I'm sure you know why I don't think that


----------



## CherryToke

Until Pettersson somehow develops elite puck shielding ability (which is currently his biggest weakness), we should probably throw the Datsyuk comparison out the window..

Reminds me of the RNH/Datsyuk comparisons from a couple of years ago.


----------



## Tv9924

Tryampled said:


> Until Pettersson somehow develops elite puck shielding ability (which is currently his biggest weakness), we should probably throw the Datsyuk comparison out the window..
> 
> Reminds me of the RNH/Datsyuk comparisons from a couple of years ago.




Speaking of which, I wonder if RNH is a good comparable..


----------



## Grantham

Elias had two Assists today as Vaxjo played HC Davos . Didn't get to watch the game unfortunately so no idea how he actually looked. Vaxjo 3-0 so far


----------



## thepuckmonster

Tv9924 said:


> Speaking of which, I wonder if RNH is a good comparable..




Honestly, based on pure play-style alone, it's still Backstrom. Whether he ever reaches the same level of success is up for debate (and will be for a long while).


----------



## Marlander93

thepuckmonster said:


> Honestly, based on pure play-style alone, it's still Backstrom. Whether he ever reaches the same level of success is up for debate (and will be for a long while).




Lars Eller may be more suitable.


----------



## Grantham

Marlander93 said:


> Lars Eller may be more suitable.




Hmm... Can you explain what similarities you see between these two players?


----------



## Henderson19

Tryampled said:


> Until Pettersson somehow develops elite puck shielding ability (which is currently his biggest weakness), we should probably throw the Datsyuk comparison out the window.




Datsyuk didn't shield the puck especially well early on. He developed that part of his game. Not comparing the two and agree the comparison should be tossed out the window. But high IQ players learn to adjust.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Okay, so I'll explain the comparison again. I've done it already a million times, but why not again?

One of the biggest separators between Pettersson and his peers and Datsyuk and his peers is hockey IQ. Players with that level of hockey IQ have their whole games play way up. The tools might only be very good, but they appear elite due to the decisions made by these players. So the puck protection right now doesn't matter. Pettersson will figure his way out in that area, just like Datsyuk did. Pettersson might only be an average skater, but he'll find a way to make it play as above-average. He's a very smart player, his game will play better than it is. Like Datsyuk, he'll find a way to become a very good defensive player. The puck skills and playmaking is already there, but the rest will come due to Pettersson's hockey IQ. Everyone is so concentrated on talking about tools with players, the reason I think many people underrate Pettersson's ceiling is that they don't properly account for his hockey IQ. Datsyuk's ceiling was underrated, as well. The guy was not an early first round pick or anything like that, but his hockey IQ was as high as could be, he figured his way out to the top of the sport. He wasn't a McDavid or Crosby type of prodigy, but he's gotten pretty close to that level because of his smarts to go along with pretty good skill. I think its the same story for Pettersson, although he was drafted higher because he's probably a little better at this age than Datsyuk was, and at that time, Russia wasn't scouted well. It still isn't, but is scouted better now.


----------



## Josepho

Luddowich said:


> No matter what anyone says, if you watch him play you'll see why he made that comparison. At least stylistically, but i'm not going to argue against people not believing in him anymore since it's absolutely pointless. People have already made up their mind from their "gut feeling" even though Datsyuk can be a bit far fetched, but Pettersson no doubt has the talent to end up the best player from this draft.
> 
> Interesting comparison between Lindholm and Andersson seeing how they share little in common apart from being Swedish and drafted centers.




Nothing to do with playing style -- just the first example I could think of in terms of overall impact.


----------



## Amazing Kreiderman

birds in the trap said:


> I'm guessing that you just *happen* to think Lias Andersson will be amazing.




Assumptions. Wonderful.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Amazing Kreiderman said:


> Assumptions. Wonderful.




No need to be jelly bruh


----------



## IComeInPeace

Another goal so far today.
I believe that's 4 points in his first 4 games.


----------



## eddie416

Sick Vaxjo jerseys


----------



## Luddowich

IComeInPeace said:


> Another goal so far today.
> I believe that's 4 points in his first 4 games.



Just watch how someone is going to criticize this fact.
OT: Doesn't surprise me one bit, kid basically oozes IQ and talent.


----------



## IComeInPeace

Luddowich said:


> Just watch how someone is going to criticize this fact.
> OT: Doesn't surprise me one bit, kid basically oozes IQ and talent.




Well that's why it's always just best to let a players performance do all of the talking. In the end that's all that matters.
Can't skate, too skinny, permiter player blah, blah, blah...but, in the end all that matters is 4 points in his first 4 games playing for his SEL team means that so far he appears to be making a nice transistion.

It's only 4 games, so we don't need to start gloating either. But, it is nice to see him do well this far.


----------



## Kamiccolo

eddie416 said:


> Sick Vaxjo jerseys





What what a clapper he's got. He's going to make the NHL just because he'll be a good player on the PP. If he develops his other skills that's probably at worst a nice 2nd liner who can fill in on a first line.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Ok can someone explain what this championship hockey league is? Is this all just for fun? Like preseason stuff while waiting on the SHL season to start?


----------



## CanaFan

Elias Pettersson said:


> Ok can someone explain what this championship hockey league is? Is this all just for fun? Like preseason stuff while waiting on the SHL season to start?




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champions_Hockey_League

Mix of teams from SEL, Liiga, Swiss, Czech, German, and Austrian leagues plus 8 teams from Danish, French, English, Norwegian, Slovakian, and Belarusian leagues.


----------



## Slimmy

Elias Pettersson said:


> Ok can someone explain what this championship hockey league is? Is this all just for fun? Like preseason stuff while waiting on the SHL season to start?




It's a tourney in the spirit of the Champions League of Football. The money and the prestige isn't quite there yet, however. But top quality hockey, none the less.

https://www.championshockeyleague.com/en


----------



## Elias Pettersson

CanaFan said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champions_Hockey_League
> 
> Mix of teams from SEL, Liiga, Swiss, Czech, German, and Austrian leagues plus 8 teams from Danish, French, English, Norwegian, Slovakian, and Belarusian leagues.




So now I'm confused. So does this end when the SHL begins or is this concurrent with it?


----------



## CherryToke

eddie416 said:


> Sick Vaxjo jerseys





Datsyuk hockey IQ and Ovechkin like finish? 

The cup is ours.


----------



## Stand Witness

The more I think about it, the more I believe that Pettersson should have been picked 1st overall.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Stand Witness said:


> The more I think about it, the more I believe that Pettersson should have been picked 1st overall.




Cmon, even the biggest Homer can't say that.


----------



## Amazing Kreiderman

Elias Pettersson said:


> So now I'm confused. So does this end when the SHL begins or is this concurrent with it?




They run side by side. Same with football.


----------



## DieTomi

Remember when everyone was saying Lias Andersson is the better player after the summer showcase? Lol

He's been invisible for Frolunda so far and has no points in 3 games. Pettersson is on the first line and excelling right off the bat, he's as legit as it gets. Reminds me so much of Nicklas Backstrom the way he moves and handles the puck. Can't wait to see him in the NHL in a few years. Might have to get tickets the first time the nucks are in town.


----------



## GetFocht

Stand Witness said:


> The more I think about it, the more I believe that Pettersson should have been picked 1st overall.




I've had the same sentiment since pre draft. His dynamic offence is extremely rare, he can score goals in about every way and also still make his teammates better with slick passes. He also had that offensive instinct you can't teach, the best players have this quality, where they react faster than anyone else without hesitation. The kid is going to be a 40 goal, 50 assists player in the NHL.


----------



## JTmillerForA1stLOL

PorscheDesign said:


> I've had the same sentiment since pre draft. His dynamic offence is extremely rare, he can score goals in about every way and also still make his teammates better with slick passes. He also had that offensive instinct you can't teach, the best players have this quality, where they react faster than anyone else without hesitation. The kid is going to be a 40 goal, 50 assists player in the NHL.




90 points you say?


----------



## LeafChief

Stand Witness said:


> The more I think about it, the more I believe that Pettersson should have been picked 1st overall.




I agree with this. I think he's already better than any of the 4 chosen in front of him.

Would have been controversial though.


----------



## Smeagoal

cadillaccts said:


> 90 points you say?




No we're talking #2 in points only to McDavid.
I'd take what he says with a grain of salt.


----------



## Grantham

Sadly A Canucks Fan said:


> No we're talking #2 in points only to McDavid.
> I'd take what he says with a grain of salt.




Two heaping tablespoons ought to do it


----------



## Stand Witness

Elias Pettersson said:


> Cmon, even the biggest Homer can't say that.




Well I don't particularly think that the top 2 picks were insanely strong this year. I think Pettersson's performance in the Allsvenskan is more impressive than both Hischer and Patrick in the CHL.

This big difference would be the WJC but I feel like other factors played in the difference in production there (strength of teams).

His production so far looks similar to Nylander's in Sweden but Nylander had some SHL time.


----------



## M2Beezy

Loving these insites on Pettersson here guys. Hopefully continues to trend positively


----------



## PuckPoise

Who is he playing with right now?


----------



## elitepete

Kamiccolo said:


> What what a clapper he's got. He's going to make the NHL just because he'll be a good player on the PP. If he develops his other skills that's probably at worst a nice 2nd liner who can fill in on a first line.




Having a booming slapshot opens up so many different things for a player. Look at Pastrnak after he worked on his one timer.


----------



## Hokinaittii

40 goals might be too much since he is a lot more playmaker than just goalscorer but something like 30+50 shouldn't be out of the question for the kid once he matures up a bit.


----------



## Rebels57

PorscheDesign said:


> I've had the same sentiment since pre draft. His dynamic offence is extremely rare, he can score goals in about every way and also still make his teammates better with slick passes. He also had that offensive instinct you can't teach, the best players have this quality, where they react faster than anyone else without hesitation. *The kid is going to be a 40 goal, 50 assists player in the NHL.*




Lmfao.

Wanna bet?


----------



## Amazing Kreiderman

PuckPoise said:


> Who is he playing with right now?




Vaxjo


----------



## Luddowich

Amazing Kreiderman said:


> Vaxjo



I think he meant linemates.


----------



## thelittlecoon

Luddowich said:


> I think he meant linemates.




He's been playing with Tuomas Kiiskinen and Janne Pesonen the past few games.


----------



## Marlander93

20g+20a player max imo.


----------



## The Drop

So like Nylander and Marner potential


----------



## NoRaise4Brackett

So then we're talking somewhere in between 40 - 90 points then?


----------



## ulvvf

PassLikeA10YrOldBoy said:


> So then we're talking somewhere in between 40 - 90 points then?




Seems like a fairly safe bet.


----------



## snipes

The Drop said:


> So like Nylander and Marner potential




Nope


----------



## lightstorm

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Okay, so I'll explain the comparison again. I've done it already a million times, but why not again?
> 
> One of the biggest separators between Pettersson and his peers and Datsyuk and his peers is hockey IQ. Players with that level of hockey IQ have their whole games play way up. The tools might only be very good, but they appear elite due to the decisions made by these players. So the puck protection right now doesn't matter. Pettersson will figure his way out in that area, just like Datsyuk did. Pettersson might only be an average skater, but he'll find a way to make it play as above-average. He's a very smart player, his game will play better than it is. Like Datsyuk, he'll find a way to become a very good defensive player. The puck skills and playmaking is already there, but the rest will come due to Pettersson's hockey IQ. Everyone is so concentrated on talking about tools with players, the reason I think many people underrate Pettersson's ceiling is that they don't properly account for his hockey IQ. Datsyuk's ceiling was underrated, as well. The guy was not an early first round pick or anything like that, but his hockey IQ was as high as could be, he figured his way out to the top of the sport. He wasn't a McDavid or Crosby type of prodigy, but he's gotten pretty close to that level because of his smarts to go along with pretty good skill. I think its the same story for Pettersson, although he was drafted higher because he's probably a little better at this age than Datsyuk was, and at that time, Russia wasn't scouted well. It still isn't, but is scouted better now.




So, basically Petterson will turn into Datsyuk because Datsyuk was able to turn into Datsyuk.

...?


----------



## heusy_79

PassLikeA10YrOldBoy said:


> So then we're talking somewhere in between 40 - 90 points then?




40-90, give or take a few either way


----------



## thelittlecoon

Pettersson is probably the best player in the world


----------



## Smeagoal

thelittlecoon said:


> Pettersson is probably the best player in the world




World is a small place. We're talking Universe.


----------



## The Iron Goalie

Sadly A Canucks Fan said:


> World is a small place. We're talking Universe.




Why stop there? Best player in the multiverse, and all 4 dimensions.


----------



## Tomas W

OEL for Norris said:


> Why stop there? Best player in the multiverse, and all 4 dimensions.




Jesus, in the infinite multiverse with an infintie versions of Elias Pettersson, who of course is the best hockey player in the world in almost all versions, OURs is were he the ABSOLUTE best. In the alternative reality were he was drafted by Calgary is he's pretty overrated though...


----------



## VictorLustig

The goal he scored just now


----------



## D0ctorCool

VictorLustig said:


> The goal he scored just now




His hands were on full display right there. Great patience!


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Something tells me Pettersson is gonna have a pretty good year in the SHL


----------



## VictorLustig

Elias Pettersson said:


> Something tells me Pettersson is gonna have a pretty good year in the SHL




Pleasantly surprised by the way they are using him. He's on the top line and their 1st PP unit runs through him. Could have a rather productive year.

1+2 against FrÃ¶lunda so far. His second assist was a beauty.


----------



## eddie416

VictorLustig said:


> Pleasantly surprised by the way they are using him. He's on the top line and their 1st PP unit runs through him. Could have a rather productive year.
> 
> 1+2 against FrÃƒÂ¶lunda so far. His second assist was a beauty.




Very much agreed. In on 3 out of 4 of Vaxjo's goals, but been on the ice for all 4. Looking good out there


----------



## Szechwan

The D on that goal is hilarious, but damn what a smooth finish.

Looks to be living up to his draft billing thus far, what are his stats to date?


----------



## thelittlecoon

Szechwan said:


> The D on that goal is hilarious, but damn what a smooth finish.
> 
> Looks to be living up to his draft billing thus far, what are his stats to date?




Since the draft he's only played in CHL competition where he has 2G 2A in 4 games. Today's pre-season game against Frolunda he finished with 1G 2A. Their regular season starts on the 19th.


----------



## Luddowich

VictorLustig said:


> Pleasantly surprised by the way they are using him. He's on the top line and their 1st PP unit runs through him. Could have a rather productive year.
> 
> 1+2 against FrÃ¶lunda so far. His second assist was a beauty.



You got a video of the assist?


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> Something tells me Pettersson is gonna have a pretty good year in the SHL





Came in expecting something good, left with dissapointment and the thought that the SHL pree season is just as advirtised


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Szechwan said:


> The D on that goal is hilarious, but damn what a smooth finish.
> 
> Looks to be living up to his draft billing thus far, what are his stats to date?






JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Came in expecting something good, left with dissapointment and the thought that the SHL pree season is just as advirtised




What happened during this goal was the other team was breaking it out and Pettersson had the presence of mind to hide in the slot while his teammate forced a turnover and passed it to him. That's why he's all alone. The Hockey IQ offensive instincts.


----------



## ijuka

Elias Pettersson said:


> What happened during this goal was the other team was breaking it out and Pettersson had the presence of mind to hide in the slot while his teammate forced a turnover and passed it to him. That's why he's all alone. The Hockey IQ offensive instincts.




So it's not lazy defending? What would the attack have been like if his teammate didn't steal the puck?


----------



## Lexus

Better view of the goal here.


----------



## Canucks LB

Lexus said:


> Better view of the goal here.





Holy god his hands up close are something else


----------



## Canucks LB




----------



## Elias Pettersson

ijuka said:


> So it's not lazy defending? What would the attack have been like if his teammate didn't steal the puck?




It's not like these goals don't ever happen in the NHL. He could go coast to coast and deke the whole team and you would criticize him. Idk why you're so salty about Pettersson. Get over it bud


----------



## Canucks LB

ijuka said:


> So it's not lazy defending? What would the attack have been like if his teammate didn't steal the puck?




Why are you such a negative and toxic poster, I don't understand.


----------



## ijuka

Elias Pettersson said:


> It's not like these goals don't ever happen in the NHL. He could go coast to coast and deke the whole team and you would criticize him. Idk why you're so salty about Pettersson. Get over it bud




I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me and saying it doesn't matter or disagreeing with me. 

Anyway, I was pretty disappointed watching that video. I was ready for something truly special judging by what had been said of it.

Keep in mind that it's still the preseason and the SHL preseason is pretty notorious for not being the greatest indicator.


----------



## SoundAndFury

This thread will be hilarious either way in a few years  Can't remember the last prospect where opinions varied between bust and 90 point player.


----------



## ihaveyuidonttouchme

Lexus said:


> Better view of the goal here.





fun goal and im baffled as to why the defender suddenly just decides to leave him alone....


----------



## bigdog16

Elias Pettersson said:


> It's not like these goals don't ever happen in the NHL. He could go coast to coast and deke the whole team and you would criticize him. Idk why you're so salty about Pettersson. Get over it bud




That play right there would never happen in the NHL


----------



## Elias Pettersson

bigdog16 said:


> That play right there would never happen in the NHL




Oh really? Try watching some hockey and get back to me. 

This is just from a quick search:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B59d80vwX1M

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AsA0shXNPp8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uDuVZGMlZ0Q


----------



## Prntscrn

ihaveyuidonttouchme said:


> fun goal and im baffled as to why the defender suddenly just decides to leave him alone....




Yeat not sure what he was thinking really  But to be fair to him he isn't a defencemen I think that was Ryan Lasch


----------



## Grantham

Elias Pettersson said:


> Oh really? Try watching some hockey and get back to me.
> 
> This is just from a quick search:
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B59d80vwX1M
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AsA0shXNPp8
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uDuVZGMlZ0Q




Lol, nice! Watched all three and they are almost a carbon copy of the goal Elias scored today


----------



## aigledefeu

Grantham said:


> Lol, nice! Watched all three and they are almost a carbon copy of the goal Elias scored today




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiGmno2KMLo


----------



## Aqualung

ijuka said:


> I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me and saying it doesn't matter or disagreeing with me.
> 
> Anyway, I was pretty disappointed watching that video. I was ready for something truly special judging by what had been said of it.
> 
> Keep in mind that it's still the preseason and the SHL preseason is pretty notorious for not being the greatest indicator.




I feel like you're stretching a bit too hard to play devil's advocate. No this play doesn't mean he will automatically dominate the SHL, it is preseason, and it won't make him a superstar in the NHL. But it's nice to appreciate good things prospects do and provides positive indicators. He's doing what is expected of him, putting up points.

Its a good thing he can pull something off like that when left alone in front of the net. Takes poise and confidence to not simply whiff, one time it, shoot it up high or into the goalie, etc.


----------



## Igor Shestyorkin

Marlander93 said:


> 20g+20a player max imo.




lmao. 40 points max, okay. Not saying he's a 90 pt guy like some others, but that's funny.


----------



## ihaveyuidonttouchme

Aqualung said:


> I feel like you're stretching a bit too hard to play devil's advocate. No this play doesn't mean he will automatically dominate the SHL, it is preseason, and it won't make him a superstar in the NHL. But it's nice to appreciate good things prospects do and provides positive indicators. He's doing what is expected of him, putting up points.
> 
> Its a good thing he can pull something off like that when left alone in front of the net. Takes poise and confidence to not simply whiff, one time it, shoot it up high or into the goalie, etc.




it can really go both ways tbh. one thing we need to remind ourselves is not to over doing/exaggerating things. most of plays ive seen are really "expected" to do as a top prospect/ not an wow factor :/. and i can easily see some posters going over the "wow" factor (on both sides) when the certain plays arent that impressive to begin with or maybe im just a debby downer

personally, *most* of criticisms of Pettersson has been soundly reasonable.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

10 point player max imo


----------



## Lays

Elias Pettersson said:


> 10 point player max imo




in the ECHL if he's lucky


----------



## MonarchFlames

Just written all over him. Can't even score a hat trick.


----------



## 572172

Petterson has elite potential in nhl 18 unlike glass and vilardi


----------



## me2

ihaveyuidonttouchme said:


> fun goal and im baffled as to why the defender suddenly just decides to leave him alone....



Edmonton era Eakins.


----------



## me2

bigdog16 said:


> that play right there would never happen in the nhl




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJK3COF6770


----------



## Hyack57

Lexus said:


> Better view of the goal here.





Why did the defender leave him all alone? Bench that tool.


----------



## M2Beezy

I havent watched him play since drafted but just seen some highlights. It SEEMS like a lot of his goals are stick handling goals in front of the net where he outweights the goalie. Sure these type goals happen in the NHL but if thats his only move then defenders will learn to defend against him. But like i said i havent seen his game so far. How is he other then those highlight deeks?


----------



## Orca Smash

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> I havent watched him play since drafted but just seen some highlights. It SEEMS like a lot of his goals are stick handling goals in front of the net where he outweights the goalie. Sure these type goals happen in the NHL but if thats his only move then defenders will learn to defend against him. But like i said i havent seen his game so far. How is he other then those highlight deeks?





Points are points and he is doing it as an 18 year old against men, everything he does is being over analyzed, as long as hes putting up points he is doing his job, add to the fact its in the swedish elite league and we should be thrilled he is simply producing as of right now. 

As I mentioned before when someone else said he just has one move a month ago, mcdavid often uses the same move, when people caught on he would tuck it in his backhand to switch it up, he also simply shoots to when he is all alone. I am not sure how defenders will learn to defend considering he does the move when he is all alone and defensive coverage is blown or on a break away, but it is also hard for goalies not to bite in the heat of the moment, I seen mcdavid go side to side and tuck it in so often in the chl it amazed me and he continuted to do it with success when he entered the nhl and goalies had trouble catching on (and im in no way comparing the two just giving an example of a similar move being used).

I would also like to think someone with his hands is capable of doing something else.


----------



## lawrence

dudes a bust already, not impressed at all! We should have drafted Cody Glass for crying out loud. He was so dominating a the Junior showcase. Everyone is talking about how great Cody Glass played. stupid Canucks!


----------



## CherryToke

Elias Pettersson said:


> 10 point player max imo




10 points per game max.


----------



## IComeInPeace

Nice hands.
Was that a 3 point game today?


----------



## Elias Pettersson

IComeInPeace said:


> Nice hands.
> Was that a 3 point game today?




1G 2A. He should have had the secondary assist also on another goal but the scorekeepers gave it to the wrong person and I doubt they'd change it for a preseason game. So technically 1G 3A, in on all 4 goals.


----------



## lawrence

Elias Pettersson said:


> 1G 2A. He should have had the secondary assist also on another goal but the scorekeepers gave it to the wrong person and I doubt they'd change it for a preseason game. So technically 1G 3A, in on all 4 goals.




so who do we blame this time? The crappy defenders on the other side or the level of play of the league?


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

lawrence said:


> so who do we blame this time? The crappy defenders on the other side or the level of play of the league?




"That would never happen in the NHL" is the funniest answers, though


----------



## rickardr

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> "That would never happen in the NHL" is the funniest answers, though


----------



## Canucks LB

Guy just needs a solid WJC and ppl will be all aboard the bandwagon hype train


----------



## firstemperor

Lucbourdon said:


> Guy just needs a solid WJC and ppl will be all aboard the bandwagon hype train




It would help for sure but Pujlu had as good of a WJC run as a prospect could have in recent years and Laine's FEL performance + playoffs still pushed him way over. 

I remember when Strome had a good WJC (not this year) and fans were singing his praises too.

For me, his SEL season would be the most telling of any sample. The WJC run would pale in comparison.


----------



## GetFocht

The kid is blossoming into a superstar, already has the confidence to take over a game as an 18 year old playing against men. Just wait till he puts on 20lbs


----------



## Leafs at Knight

PorscheDesign said:


> The kid is blossoming into a superstar, already has the confidence to take over a game as an 18 year old playing against men. Just wait till he puts on 20lbs




Blossoming into a superstar? Really? The kid looks good, but let's settle down a bit.


----------



## Zombotron

It's only the SHL preseason. He'll need to sustain his performance over the regular season and into the WJCs. Think someone on our board crunched the numbers and looked at comparables before claiming he'd need to score at a bare-minimum 0.8PPG rate to cement himself as an elite prospect.


----------



## Mayuu

Hyack57 said:


> Why did the defender leave him all alone? Bench that tool.




That's not a defender that's Ryan Lasch, it's a pre-season game and focus is more on offence still!


----------



## TheBeastCoast

SoundAndFury said:


> This thread will be hilarious either way in a few years  Can't remember the last prospect where opinions varied between bust and 90 point player.




Really? Basically any small framed undersized player ever has had their prospect threads filled with people either projecting out that players max potential or people expecting them to fall flat on their face. Marner,Gaudreau, Granlund. It happens a lot lol.


----------



## Luddowich

Zombotron said:


> It's only the SHL preseason. He'll need to sustain his performance over the regular season and into the WJCs. Think someone on our board crunched the numbers and looked at comparables before claiming he'd need to score at a bare-minimum 0.8PPG rate to cement himself as an elite prospect.



I don't know if you're serious but expecting him to score a bare minimum of 44 pts in 55 games is a lot. I really don't know if you know how low scoring the SHL is.
Wennberg who's had a similar career path scored 21 pts in 50 games as a D+1 player.
JEE 15 pts in 41 games in his D+1, 16 in 26 in his D+2.
Zibanejad 13 in 26 in his D+1.
All of these players were also more physically ready to play in the pros than EP is today. Over a full regular season I'm not even 100% sure Nylander scores at that pace in his D+1.

I'm not saying that he can't do it because i know he can, but don't expect seeing how he's still a kid physically. He needs a loooot of work physically.


----------



## Orca Smash

Luddowich said:


> I don't know if you're serious but expecting him to score a bare minimum of 44 pts in 55 games is a lot. I really don't know if you know how low scoring the SHL is.
> Wennberg who's had a similar career path scored 21 pts in 50 games as a D+1 player.
> JEE 15 pts in 41 games in his D+1, 16 in 26 in his D+2.
> Zibanejad 13 in 26 in his D+1.
> All of these players were also more physically ready to play in the pros than EP is today. Over a full regular season I'm not even 100% sure Nylander scores at that pace in his D+1.
> 
> I'm not saying that he can't do it because i know he can, but don't expect seeing how he's still a kid physically. He needs a loooot of work physically.




Some people dont know how good the SHL is and how difficult it is to score especially for 18-19 year old.


----------



## Luddowich

Orca Smash said:


> Some people dont know how good the SHL is and how difficult it is to score especially for 18-19 year old.



He's asking a very very very physically immature 19 year old in his first year in the SHL to score at BARE MINIMUM 0.8 PPG. 
So that mean he's expecting Elias to score 41.6 pts in 52 games(correct this time ) 
The fifth highest scorer last year scored 42 pts. So he's basically expecting at bare minimum Elias to be a top 5 scorer this season. He can absolutely do it, but i would be over the moon if Elias scores at 0.8 PPG this season as he'd exceed my expectations by miles.
If he scores at that pace there wouldn't be any forward prospect not including the 2018 draft class that i'd take over him.

I don't know if people seem to have forgotten but Elias was said to be at draft day and is still said to be a project because that's what he is, and he needs time to gain weight. He's not going up against some juniors that have just graduated high school.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Luddowich said:


> He's asking a very very very physically immature 19 year old in his first year in the SHL to score at BARE MINIMUM 0.8 PPG.
> So that mean he's expecting Elias to score 41.6 pts in 52 games(correct this time )
> The fifth highest scorer last year scored 42 pts. So he's basically expecting at bare minimum Elias to be a top 5 scorer this season. He can absolutely do it, but i would be over the moon if Elias scores at 0.8 PPG this season as he'd exceed my expectations by miles.
> If he scores at that pace there wouldn't be any forward prospect not including the 2018 draft class that i'd take over him.
> 
> I don't know if people seem to have forgotten but Elias was said to be at draft day and is still said to be a project because that's what he is, and he needs time to gain weight. He's not going up against some juniors that have just graduated high school.




I think its easy for many NA based people to think that the SHL is full of tiny kids, like in the CHL. You really cant compare the two leagues, yet some think that you actually can


----------



## lawrence

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> I think its easy for many NA based people to think that the SHL is full of tiny kids, like in the CHL. You really cant compare the two leagues, yet some think that you actually can




Ohhh trust me bro. Most Canadian fans who follow their team closely are fully aware of the level of play outside the NHL is, due to the fact they follow their prospects at one point or another, that played in the SEL, Russia, some European league etc etc. If they want to *hate* they will just do it. They will find a way. It's so easy to hate on a prospect around here. 




> He's asking a very very very physically immature 19 year old in his first year in the SHL to score at BARE MINIMUM 0.8 PPG




commonly used tactic around here to neg on a prospect. Pretty much set the bar very very high, then if he fails to reach it, its ammunition that can be used against him. It's an ass clown mentality around hfboards.com seriously.




> Blossoming into a superstar? Really? The kid looks good, but let's settle down a bit.




he's the same dude that continues to say he's a future 90 point player setting up ammunition for other fanbases to use on us in the future. just ignore him.


----------



## Knight53

Solid debut for the kid. Always creating something when he has the puck. Made a ridiculous Sedin like play in OT.


----------



## thepuckmonster

Knight53 said:


> Solid debut for the kid. Always creating something when he has the puck. Made a ridiculous Sedin like play in OT.





May the hockey lords have mercy on our poor Canucks fan souls. This kid is a human highlight reel.


----------



## Love

Got another assist yesterday off slick feed on the PP: https://streamable.com/zpeqg

Also made this nice move to drive the net: https://streamable.com/4bks0

2gp 0g 2a so far. Someone on the Canucks board said he led the team in ice time possibly? Not sure if that was verified or not. 

*credit to ihaveyuidonttouchme for the vids.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Love said:


> Got another assist yesterday off slick feed on the PP: https://streamable.com/zpeqg
> 
> Also made this nice move to drive the net: https://streamable.com/4bks0
> 
> 2gp 0g 2a so far. Someone on the Canucks board said he led the team in ice time possibly? Not sure if that was verified or not.
> 
> *credit to ihaveyuidonttouchme for the vids.



He didn't lead the team in ice-time, not even among forwards. Here are the SHL stats from the game. They track ice-time. He got almost 14 minutes. 

http://www.shl.se/gamecenter/qTJ-3n1vE4vA0/statistics/7034


----------



## rune74

93LEAFS said:


> He didn't lead the team in ice-time, not even among forwards. Here are the SHL stats from the game. They track ice-time. He got almost 14 minutes.
> 
> http://www.shl.se/gamecenter/qTJ-3n1vE4vA0/statistics/7034




Yeah I think he got a defensmen mixed up there.

In some ways it's better he did not.


----------



## Hokinaittii

Definately exciting player to watch. Hopefully he pans out like expected, this game needs more guys like him.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Love said:


> Got another assist yesterday off slick feed on the PP: https://streamable.com/zpeqg
> 
> Also made this nice move to drive the net: https://streamable.com/4bks0
> 
> 2gp 0g 2a so far. Someone on the Canucks board said he led the team in ice time possibly? Not sure if that was verified or not.
> 
> *credit to ihaveyuidonttouchme for the vids.




his vision is really good.


----------



## Love

93LEAFS said:


> He didn't lead the team in ice-time, not even among forwards. Here are the SHL stats from the game. They track ice-time. He got almost 14 minutes.
> 
> http://www.shl.se/gamecenter/qTJ-3n1vE4vA0/statistics/7034




Great thank you. I donâ€™t know how that idea started.


----------



## PatrikBerglund

The SHL is known for giving the U-19 players very limited icetime, it's all about the veterans.

Same thing with soccer.


----------



## Love

crossbownerf said:


> The SHL is known for giving the U-19 players very limited icetime, it's all about the veterans.
> 
> Same thing with soccer.




Well although I misread what what was said about the quantity of his ice time, he still seems to be getting quality ice time and lots of responsibility on the PP. He appears to be the the guy running the power play from the right side half wall.


----------



## Bloomfield*

crossbownerf said:


> The SHL is known for giving the U-19 players very limited icetime, it's all about the veterans.
> 
> Same thing with soccer.




swedish coaches are the worst coaches in the world to play young exciting players. They rather buy a 35 year old washed up player from another league then playing juniors.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

SailorMercury said:


> swedish coaches are the worst coaches in the world to play young exciting players. They rather buy a 35 year old washed up player from another league then playing juniors.




I'm sure if his play warrants higher ice time, he will get it. I mean, no coach is out there not trying their best to win. They will give the best players more ice time.


----------



## Bloomfield*

Elias Pettersson said:


> I'm sure if his play warrants higher ice time, he will get it. I mean, no coach is out there not trying their best to win. They will give the best players more ice time.




pettersson has been doing fine so far, but I just dont like his linemates. Two 30+ slow players :/


----------



## Smeagoal

SailorMercury said:


> pettersson has been doing fine so far, but I just dont like his linemates. Two 30+ slow players :/




He's going to play for the Canucks. He better get used to carrying two 30+ slow players on his wings.


----------



## Orca Smash

Elias Pettersson said:


> I'm sure if his play warrants higher ice time, he will get it. I mean, no coach is out there not trying their best to win. They will give the best players more ice time.




Willie desjardins? 

Often even if you can score coaches dont trust young players especially defensively if the team has the lead.


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

He is a clone of Niklas Backstrom


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

DownGoesMcDavid said:


> He is a clone of Niklas Backstrom




...how do someone even come up with ^ this?...


----------



## VictorLustig

SailorMercury said:


> pettersson has been doing fine so far, but I just dont like his linemates. Two 30+ slow players :/




Pettersson is playing with two legit top line SHL players and given 1st unit PP time. There is nothing wrong with his line mates and that line has looked good so far.


----------



## EK47

SailorMercury said:


> pettersson has been doing fine so far, but I just dont like his linemates. Two 30+ slow players :/




Pesonen and Kiiskinen are the furthest thing from slow. They are slow in the sense that they don't think the game anywhere near as fast as Pettersson. But if we are talking skating they are both significantly faster than Pettersson right now.


----------



## Willy Stylez

1A after the first period.


----------



## Luddowich

Had 1 assist saturday, scored the opening goal so far vs Malmö.


----------



## Szechwan

Hovering around a ppg as a rookie in the SHL, looking pretty darn good so far.


----------



## Robongo01

Now all we need is him to get moved to the middle


----------



## GetFocht

8 points in 9 games with 14 minutes of ice time. 

He's right on track


----------



## Zombotron

An auspicious start.


----------



## mouser

Vancouver really should get this guy signed to an ELC before December 31st to give them the option of letting his contract slide next season.

Don't understand why they haven't done so already.


----------



## wonton15

mouser said:


> Vancouver really should get this guy signed to an ELC before December 31st to give them the option of letting his contract slide next season.
> 
> Don't understand why they haven't done so already.




Jim Benning.


----------



## IComeInPeace

Another nice snipe. Now 2 goals/9 points in 11 games so far.

Seems like he’s transitioning nicely; however there is lots of time and space for him on the larger ice...
I really hope he’s able to put on some size, as he could be a real find if he can play at 190+ pounds.


----------



## Siludin

mouser said:


> Vancouver really should get this guy signed to an ELC before December 31st to give them the option of letting his contract slide next season.
> 
> Don't understand why they haven't done so already.



Maybe his agent is like "no dont"


----------



## mouser

Siludin said:


> Maybe his agent is like "no dont"




Not impossible, but that $92.5k immediate signing bonus has to be attractive.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

12 points in almost 12 completed games. Its the 2nd intermission, so he could add more.


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

I can smell a home run pick 
Call me crazy but has the potential to be the best player out of the top 10 of 2017


----------



## VictorLustig

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> 12 points in almost 12 completed games. Its the 2nd intermission, so he could add more.




They will probably take away his assist though


----------



## Breakers

BKVCMU said:


> I can smell a home run pick
> Call me crazy but has the potential to be the best player out of the top 10 of 2017




He always had one of the highest upsides of any player in this draft, multiple scouts said that. 
Scouts weren't fond of his weight and on if he could hold up.

So far so good.


----------



## Iceman

BKVCMU said:


> I can smell a home run pick
> Call me crazy but has the potential to be the best player out of the top 10 of 2017




It remains to be seen. Hischier looks like he might even be better than expected. Pettersson might be the most gifted player, offensively, from that draft and given the fact that the NHL is turning more into a speed and skill league than it was 15-20 years ago you might be right.


----------



## DDRhockey

VictorLustig said:


> They will probably take away his assist though



No they wont. I am 100%


----------



## Knight53

Just got his third goal of the game.

4 point game.


----------



## GetFocht

13 points in 12 games now. Holy Sh*t, this isn't even his final form.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

HAT TRICK ALERT


----------



## polarbearcub

Hyperventilating


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

When a player deserves the hype
Give him all the hype


----------



## Szechwan

That's quite the pace he's set, very entertaining player.


----------



## Love

Perfect example of why you should never ever ever ever ever NOT draft a player because they're skinny. Literally was NO OTHER NEGATIVE about him. He's slight. That was the only knock. So glad we drafted him.


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

Love said:


> Perfect example of why you should never ever ever ever ever NOT draft a player because they're skinny. Literally was NO OTHER NEGATIVE about him. He's slight. That was the only knock. So glad we drafted him.



Agree
Skinny is the easiest problem to fix for athlete


----------



## GetFocht

Make that another point

5 POINT GAME FOR PETTERSSON!

14 POINTS IN 12 GAMES, TOP 5 IN SHL SCORING.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Another primary assist. thats 5 (!!!!)Points so far tonight


----------



## Knight53

Robbed on the breakaway slapshot

Honest to god could have 6-7 points today.


----------



## GetFocht




----------



## Critical13

The next Nylander/Backstrom. Just oozes talent.


----------



## Pi

Pettersson is a steal even at 5th. I can't believe that he was ranked all over the place. Looked like a top 5 pick and now he's playing like he should have gone higher.

2017 is a weird draft. I don't see any player in the draft that Pettersson can't be better than, Hischier included. Amazing start and stats for an 18 year old in the SHL.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Notable U20 SHL seasons


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Pi said:


> Pettersson is a steal even at 5th. I can't believe that he was ranked all over the place. Looked like a top 5 pick and now he's playing like he should have gone higher.
> 
> 2017 is a weird draft. I don't see any player in the draft that Pettersson can't be better than, Hischier included. Amazing start and stats for an 18 year old in the SHL.



i'm a homer and love Pettersson, but Hischier is on another level.


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

Developing nicely. Dont rush him


----------



## I am not exposed

Would be happy for Canucks fans if this player works out for them. They could do with some luck in drafts.


----------



## Pi

Elias Pettersson said:


> i'm a homer and love Pettersson, but Hischier is on another level.




Right now, sure. In the future, who knows? He's 6'2 161 lbs. After he has some AHL experience and puts on 15-20 lbs? He could be a really good player in the NHL.

Key will be to stay patient with him.


----------



## GetFocht

Elias Pettersson said:


> View attachment 81305



You're missing backstrom, naslund, backstrom, Zetterberg and the Sedins from that list.


----------



## King Weber

Really impressive.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

PorscheDesign said:


> You're missing backstrom, naslund, backstrom, Zetterberg and the Sedins from that list.



they all played in the SEL


----------



## GetFocht

Look at that TOI/GP


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

Elias Pettersson said:


> i'm a homer and love Pettersson, but Hischier is on another level.



Because he makes the NHL faster?
Right now none of the top 10 picks is on a different level than others


----------



## EK47

Had the pleasure of watching the game live, pairing him with Rosén who is the only one on Växjö with a similar hockey sense turned out to be insane who would've guessed? Seriously though he had two breakaways, and plenty of plays where he just outsmarted and outskilled his opponent at the same time, those where great to watch but will never show up on a highlight-reel.


----------



## rickardr




----------



## Cheeks Clapinski

rickardr said:


>





My loins are quivering


----------



## ulvvf

hopefully he will be in the olympics. Will be a busy year for him if so, since he also have wjc, and then maybe at the end of the year whc.


----------



## The Macho King

rickardr said:


>




Unrelated - but big ice always looks weird to me.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

ulvvf said:


> hopefully he will be in the olympics. Will be a busy year for him if so, since he also have wjc, and then maybe at the end of the year whc.



If the Canucks sign him before the Olympics, I don't think he can attend


----------



## GetFocht

Elias Pettersson said:


> If the Canucks sign him before the Olympics, I don't think he can attend




that likely won't happen, I think Pettersson is definitely gunning for the Olympics.


----------



## felixpettersson

ulvvf said:


> hopefully he will be in the olympics. Will be a busy year for him if so, since he also have wjc, and then maybe at the end of the year whc.




Probably won't be on neither of the olympic or whc team tho


----------



## ulvvf

Elias Pettersson said:


> If the Canucks sign him before the Olympics, I don't think he can attend




Then he should not sign before the olympics, if he wants to play in the olympics.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> If the Canucks sign him before the Olympics, I don't think he can attend



Why would they even sign him right now? Hes got atleast 2 years left before hes ready


----------



## Szechwan

felixpettersson said:


> Probably won't be on neither of the olympic or whc team tho



If he stays top 5 in SHL scoring, they'd be dumb to leave him behind.


----------



## Tv9924

Szechwan said:


> If he stays top 5 in SHL scoring, they'd be dumb to leave him behind.



Yup. Bringing him along as the 13th forward can't hurt much can it? And it gives valuable experience to one of the country's top prospects.


----------



## CherryToke

PorscheDesign said:


> Make that another point
> 
> 5 POINT GAME FOR PETTERSSON!
> 
> 14 POINTS IN 12 GAMES, TOP 5 IN SHL SCORING.




Your outlandish predictions are starting to look less outlandish


----------



## hellstick

Ridiculous game. Glad to see the Canucks finally land one. Here's hoping he keeps it going.


----------



## thepuckmonster

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Why would they even sign him right now? Hes got atleast 2 years left before hes ready




IIRC if we sign him before December/January his contract will slide next year but I could be wrong.


----------



## Andy Dufresne

Elias Pettersson said:


> If the Canucks sign him before the Olympics, I don't think he can attend




Why?? It's been 20+ years since the Olympics lifted their ban on 'professionals'.


----------



## Pyromaniac

Andy Dufresne said:


> Why?? It's been 20+ years since the Olympics lifted their ban on 'professionals'.



The NHL is not going to the Olympics, this applies to every player under contract. Pettersson is eligible now, he won't be once he signs.


----------



## infinitemile

so... what should be done about Pettersson's size? Boy is skinny as hell. He's like 170 now? Probably gotta gain 15~20 pounds before he can really compete in the NHL at his height.


----------



## GetFocht

Tryampled said:


> Your outlandish predictions are starting to look less outlandish




I'm not the only one, here is an article before the draft stating why Pettersson is a superstar in the making and will be 90 point player at peak performance: https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/...pettersson-and-the-myth-of-the-two-horse-race

Also this:





Pettersson will be a 90 point player


----------



## Pip

Pi said:


> Right now, sure. In the future, who knows? He's 6'2 161 lbs. After he has some AHL experience and puts on 15-20 lbs? He could be a really good player in the NHL.
> 
> Key will be to stay patient with him.



I really hope that Canucks management doesn’t force him to put on too much weight, as it’s burned us a few times with prospects trying to bulk up and losing their extra gear and agility.


----------



## Canucks LB

infinitemile said:


> so... what should be done about Pettersson's size? Boy is skinny as hell. He's like 170 now? Probably gotta gain 15~20 pounds before he can really compete in the NHL at his height.



We said that with Virtanen and Juolevi, both put on a ton of weight and skated in quicksand.

Virtanen lost a lot, focused more on conditioning, and look at him now.

Can't overdue it.


----------



## blendini

infinitemile said:


> so... what should be done about Pettersson's size? Boy is skinny as hell. He's like 170 now? Probably gotta gain 15~20 pounds before he can really compete in the NHL at his height.




Hasn't been a problem for Hischier so far. He has a whopping 5lbs on Pettersson.

Elias will likely put on several pounds before he makes the jump to the NHL.


----------



## TheBeastCoast

Not every player needs to sit at one specific weight to find success. He will naturally grow into his body more but the last thing he needs to do is bulk up and sacrifice his elusiveness. It won't take him as long to make an impact in the NHL as some people think.


----------



## LickTheEnvelope

Pi said:


> Pettersson is a steal even at 5th. I can't believe that he was ranked all over the place. Looked like a top 5 pick and now he's playing like he should have gone higher.
> 
> 2017 is a weird draft. I don't see any player in the draft that Pettersson can't be better than, Hischier included. Amazing start and stats for an 18 year old in the SHL.




I'm taking this as a make up for my reactions to Virtanen and Juolevi.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

TheBeastCoast said:


> Not every player needs to sit at one specific weight to find success. He will naturally grow into his body more but the last thing he needs to do is bulk up and sacrifice his elusiveness. It won't take him as long to make an impact in the NHL as some people think.




I still think he'll take time. There's a lot more space on the big ice surface, I see him having a career projection like other skinny tall guys like Turris or the Sedins. Eventually they fulfill they're potential but it takes until they're 22-23 before they have the strength to compete.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

It's weird seeing leafs fans in here complimenting a nucks prospect... i dont feel right.. i cant hate on them here


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

He oozed hockey sense and skill. No forward was even close in those departments. I don't get caught up in what the Canadian media tries to tell us. He was a better player than Patrick and Hischier from what I watched.

Nice job @ManUtdTobbe. He also had Pettersson as the best player in this draft. I think there was someone else who had him #1, can't remember who.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

How much does Keller weigh? How much did Marner weigh? He should play next season in the NHL, could've done so this season, but there was no reason to rush him. If he's PPG in SHL, he should play in the NHL next season.


----------



## Scott Malkinson

Pettersson is awesome.

I would have taken him top 2, easily.


----------



## Bankerguy

Pettersson seems like he'll be a sure bet. Those tall skinny guys just need an extra year or two to get their "man strength" (its a real thing! look it up). 
when he's 22, he'll be ready for NHL action and he'll make an impact.

Boeser looks like the real deal right now, PPG in the NHL ... put him on Pettersson's RW. Maybe the Canucks draft Svechnikov this year as he's a natural LW.
Now you have pretty deep lines

Svechnikov Pettersson Boeser 
??? Horvat Baertschi
Sedin Sedin Virtanen


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

Can someone update the thread to Vaxjo in SHL as he doesnt play for Timra in Alsvenskan anymore. Thanks.


----------



## skyo

ICYMI - 
Toronto fan does a great breakdown on the myth of the two horse race vs Elias 
https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/...pettersson-and-the-myth-of-the-two-horse-race


----------



## mouser

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Why would they even sign him right now? Hes got atleast 2 years left before hes ready






thepuckmonster said:


> IIRC if we sign him before December/January his contract will slide next year but I could be wrong.




Petersson is a late birthday (Sep 16th to Dec 31st). Players with late birthdays can have their ELC's slide 2 times if they sign before December 31st in the calendar year of their draft. If the player is signed after that date then their contract cannot slide at all (not even once).

So if Vancouver were to sign Petersson before Dec 31st then his contract can slide this 2017-18 season, and then again in 2018-19. If Petersson stays in Europe until 2019-20 it doesn't matter. If Vancouver wants to bring him over to NA in 2018-19 season, or even have him play a few games with the NHL club at the end of the 2017-18 season then the optimal decision is to get him signed now.

If Vancouver signs him next summer then he'll burn a year in 2018-19. Even worse, if they wanted to maybe get him some NHL action at the end of the 2017-18 then signing him next spring would burn a year for 2017-18, then burn another in 2018-19 regardless of how many NHL games he played.


----------



## firstemperor

Elias Pettersson said:


> It's weird seeing leafs fans in here complimenting a nucks prospect... i dont feel right.. i cant hate on them here




That's because Petersson is the real deal.... His only real major red flag was his physical immaturity and needing to fill out his frame- that's the type of pick you need to bank on to get elite talent in this league when there's no consensus top guy. It's also a blessing in disguise you get to stash him in one of the better men's leagues outside of the NHL in some critical development years and on a good team to boot.


----------



## Grub

At least now there's some hope for us Canuck fans. We missed out on Nylander and Thachuk, maybe the saying "third time's the charm" is true. Maybe we were lucky to have slipped 3 spots down. Kid is leading his team while being the youngest.

Quite funny really, our best Swedes in Henrik and Daniel are close to retirement and we habe 2 new swedes who may lead us for the next decade or so (Petterson and Dahlen)

Hopefully we don't get Hodged.


----------



## EK47

He'll always be kinda lanky, but there is not really too much cause for concern. I've seen quite a few pictures of him this season and it's pretty obvious the main reason he is this lanky is because he hasn't quite hit manhood yet, i.e he will bulk up considerably naturally without that much work. Although he still probably needs to hit the gym more than the average top prospect.


----------



## felixpettersson

Szechwan said:


> If he stays top 5 in SHL scoring, they'd be dumb to leave him behind.




Dont get me wrong, I would love to see him make it. I just somehow doubt it with our national team management.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

felixpettersson said:


> Dont get me wrong, I would love to see him make it. I just somehow doubt it with our national team management.



Lol, whats wrong with it?


----------



## DDRhockey

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Lol, whats wrong with it?



Are you always so agressive?


----------



## Orca Smash

firstemperor said:


> That's because Petersson is the real deal.... His only real major red flag was his physical immaturity and needing to fill out his frame- that's the type of pick you need to bank on to get elite talent in this league when there's no consensus top guy. It's also a blessing in disguise you get to stash him in one of the better men's leagues outside of the NHL in some critical development years and on a good team to boot.





Agreed and i wish our fans wouldnt point this out, if we made the correct top 5 picks in previous drafts leafs or other fans would not be all over us, nor could they be. Make the correct choices drafting, do your research, know what to look for and then it wont have to be an anomaly if other fanbases compliment us.

They actually made a top 5 pick I desperately wanted and agreed with for once. I just hope I wont have to continue defending this pick to some of our fanbase because he is skinny.


----------



## rune74

skyo said:


> ICYMI -
> Toronto fan does a great breakdown on the myth of the two horse race vs Elias
> https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/...pettersson-and-the-myth-of-the-two-horse-race




Great read thanks.


----------



## Knight53




----------



## Knight53

Orca Smash said:


> Agreed and i wish our fans wouldnt point this out, if we made the correct top 5 picks in previous drafts leafs or other fans would not be all over us, nor could they be. Make the correct choices drafting, do your research, know what to look for and then it wont have to be an anomaly if other fanbases compliment us.
> 
> They actually made a top 5 pick I desperately wanted and agreed with for once. I just hope I wont have to continue defending this pick to some of our fanbase *because he is skinny*.




Also because a portion of the fanbase is xenophobic, which is disgusting.


----------



## EK47

Knight53 said:


> Also because a portion of the fanbase is xenophobic, which is disgusting.




Part of every fanbase in every country and every sport is Xenophobic, and I don't really think that a disproportionate amount of Leafs fans are Xenophobic. Well ok, maybe a slightly disproportionate amount since they are smack-dab in the middle of the Canadian media-centre. And xenophobia in hockey ALWAYS starts with the media.

Remember all the Nylander trade talk (which was ridiculous to say the least) at the beginning of last season? The fanbase were the ones saying trading Nylander would be Pejorative Slured and the media were the ones trying to force a trade but the fanbase never agreed with them. So I don't really think your assesment of the Leafs fanbase is fair, and I'm not a Leafs fan by any means.

Really it's the same thing in Sweden, if Pettersson were american or Canadian he would never get the same hype in Sweden despite playing here. I've heard countless swedish fans bashing transatlantic players for no better reason then them being transatlants. I've heard a lot of swedish fans bash transatlantic players for no better reason then them being transatlants aswell, usually egged on by some stupid article about how dumb it was too look overseas for that kind of player. So Xenophobia is everywhere in hockey and I don't really think it's going to dissappear( I sorta think that part of what we interpret as Xenophobia is also national team rivalry), so I'm just going to try and not pay any attention to it.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Th


DDRhockey said:


> Are you always so agressive?



Thats not being aggressive, kid


----------



## Knight53

EK47 said:


> Part of every fanbase in every country and every sport is Xenophobic, and I don't really think that a disproportionate amount of Leafs fans are Xenophobic. Well ok, maybe a slightly disproportionate amount since they are smack-dab in the middle of the Canadian media-centre. And xenophobia in hockey ALWAYS starts with the media.
> 
> Remember all the Nylander trade talk (which was ridiculous to say the least) at the beginning of last season? The fanbase were the ones saying trading Nylander would be ******ed and the media were the ones trying to force a trade but the fanbase never agreed with them. So I don't really think your assesment of the Leafs fanbase is fair, and I'm not a Leafs fan by any means.
> 
> Really it's the same thing in Sweden, if Pettersson were american or Canadian he would never get the same hype in Sweden despite playing here. I've heard countless swedish fans bashing transatlantic players for no better reason then them being transatlants. I've heard a lot of swedish fans bash transatlantic players for no better reason then them being transatlants aswell, usually egged on by some stupid article about how dumb it was too look overseas for that kind of player. So Xenophobia is everywhere in hockey and I don't really think it's going to dissappear( I sorta think that part of what we interpret as Xenophobia is also national team rivalry), so I'm just going to try and not pay any attention to it.




I was referring to the Canucks fanbase and so was the poster I quoted.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Made a sick pass through a tic tac toe play for an assist. Keeps the point streak alive.


----------



## NuxFan09

Ended up with a team leading 21:56 of ice time in the 2-1 OT win. Yes, that includes D-Men. He led all players in ice time.


----------



## DDRhockey

NuxFan09 said:


> Ended up with a team leading 21:56 of ice time in the 2-1 OT win. Yes, that includes D-Men. He led all players in ice time.



Coach realized that he is good


----------



## Elias Pettersson




----------



## vanarchy

Elias Pettersson said:


> View attachment 81617



Reading this thread like


----------



## Zombotron

Luddowich said:


> JEE 15 pts in 41 games in his D+1



There goes that one.


> Zibanejad 13 in 26 in his D+1.



And that one.


> Wennberg who's had a similar career path scored 21 pts in 50 games as a D+1 player.



This one's next. Actually, he's got William Nylander's 20P-in-21GP in his sights.


----------



## DDRhockey

Wennberg was not even in shl


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Zombotron said:


> There goes that one.



Technically, not yet. He could still be pointless in his next 29 games and it would be a worse season than JEE


----------



## Zombotron

Elias Pettersson said:


> Technically, not yet. He could still be pointless in his next 29 games and it would be a worse season than JEE



Suffice it to say I am a bit perturbed about this potential outcome. I hope it doesn't happen!!!


----------



## DDRhockey

JEE is nothing special though. It is backstrom he should be gunning for.


----------



## hallonskal

DDRhockey said:


> Wennberg was not even in shl





Yes, it was.


----------



## Luddowich

Zombotron said:


> There goes that one.
> 
> And that one.
> 
> This one's next. Actually, he's got William Nylander's 20P-in-21GP in his sights.



Which further speaks on his translation, didn't ever doubt his skills. Just was unsure of how well he'd translate.

Nylander 0.5 season will be more impressive though, he carried that Modo team on his shoulder. After he left they went from a playoff team to the literal worst team in the SHL



DDRhockey said:


> Wennberg was not even in shl



Played for Frölunda, so yes.


----------



## GetFocht

Luddowich said:


> Which further speaks on his translation, didn't ever doubt his skills. Just was unsure of how well he'd translate.
> 
> Nylander 0.5 season will be more impressive though, he carried that Modo team on his shoulder. After he left they went from a playoff team to the literal worst team in the SHL
> 
> 
> Played for Frölunda, so yes.





Not really, Pettersson is carrying his team right now too, the next player with the most points on Vaxjo has 8.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

PorscheDesign said:


> Not really, Pettersson is carrying his team right now too, the next player with the most points on Vaxjo has 8.



Having almost double the # of points as the next leading scorer is my definition of carrying the team. Maybe not for him?


----------



## Canucks LB

He is just a fun player to watch, simple as that.

The fact he is Canucks prospect is just fantastic, I was worried they would go the boring route with Glass.

Not saying who is gonna be better, but Elias is more dynamic of a player.


----------



## thepuckmonster

Luddowich said:


> Which further speaks on his translation, didn't ever doubt his skills. Just was unsure of how well he'd translate.
> 
> Nylander 0.5 season will be more impressive though, he carried that Modo team on his shoulder. After he left they went from a playoff team to the literal worst team in the SHL
> 
> 
> Played for Frölunda, so yes.



Pettersson is leading his team team in points with lesser ice time but he’s not impressive? Ok.

There’s a reason he was talked about having the highest ceiling of the draft, and he was picked by a team that can give him time to develop.

He’s legitimately dominating a top tier men’s league and people are still uncomfortable labelling him as a top tier prospect. The kid weighs as much as wet paper and he’s making grown and full on professionals look like fools.


----------



## Luddowich

PorscheDesign said:


> Not really, Pettersson is carrying his team right now too, the next player with the most points on Vaxjo has 8.



Växjö is one of the best teams in the SHL with or without Elias Pettersson, he's making them better no doubt. But they're not the dumpster team like Modo were when Nylander left.
Pettersson is not carrying them the way Nylander did, Växjö has been a powerhouse the last 5 season. Växjö is still a contender with or without Pettersson.



Elias Pettersson said:


> Having almost double the # of points as the next leading scorer is my definition of carrying the team. Maybe not for him?



He's not carrying them, let's not overreact.
Växjö is still like i said to previous poster a contender with or without Pettersson. Pettersson makes them a favorite though.



thepuckmonster said:


> Pettersson is leading his team team in points with lesser ice time but he’s not impressive? Ok.
> 
> There’s a reason he was talked about having the highest ceiling of the draft, and he was picked by a team that can give him time to develop.
> 
> He’s legitimately dominating a top tier men’s league and people are still uncomfortable labelling him as a top tier prospect. The kid weighs as much as wet paper and he’s making grown and full on professionals look like fools.



Please tell me where i said that Pettersson wasn't impressive? He's exceeded my expectations, and my expectations were high. He's not legitimately dominating the SHL, he's not heads and toes better than every other player. He's not the best player in the SHL. I guess this is what happens after a 5 point game LOL.

Go back and check my previous posts and you'll see how far back I've hyped Pettersson, but there's really no reason for hyperbole.
The 2014-2015 Modo was a playoff team with Nylander and they got saved in relegation after he left.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Luddowich said:


> Växjö is one of the best teams in the SHL with or without Elias Pettersson, he's making them better no doubt. But they're not the dumpster team like Modo were when Nylander left.
> Pettersson is not carrying them the way Nylander did, Växjö has been a powerhouse the last 5 season. Växjö is still a contender with or without Pettersson.
> 
> 
> He's not carrying them, let's not overreact.
> Växjö is still like i said to previous poster a contender with or without Pettersson. Pettersson makes them a favorite though.
> 
> 
> Please tell me where i said that Pettersson wasn't impressive? He's exceeded my expectations, and my expectations were high. He's not legitimately dominating the SHL, he's not heads and toes better than every other player. He's not the best player in the SHL. I guess this is what happens after a 5 point game LOL.
> 
> Go back and check my previous posts and you'll see how far back I've hyped Pettersson, but there's really no reason for hyperbole.
> The 2014-2015 Modo was a playoff team with Nylander and they got saved in relegation after he left.



And yet this is all your opinion. 
Idk about you, but if you take away a leading scorer that has 2x the points of the next guy on a contender in the NHL, the team would suffer a lot.


----------



## Wats

Nucks have some gems now. Good for them, their fans had it pretty bad for a while.


----------



## ManUtdTobbe

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> He oozed hockey sense and skill. No forward was even close in those departments. I don't get caught up in what the Canadian media tries to tell us. He was a better player than Patrick and Hischier from what I watched.
> 
> Nice job @ManUtdTobbe. He also had Pettersson as the best player in this draft. I think there was someone else who had him #1, can't remember who.




Thanks  
I'm not a big enough man to not gloat haha, his hockey IQ is and was clearly the best in the draft and the rest of his game is up there too.


----------



## Luddowich

Elias Pettersson said:


> And yet this is all your opinion.
> Idk about you, but if you take away a leading scorer that has 2x the points of the next guy on a contender in the NHL, the team would suffer a lot.



Obviously the team will suffer, i clearly stated that they would. But with or without Pettersson Växjö is still a contender. Thus, i would not qualify him "carrying" the team.
Tell me, is Ryan Lasch carrying Frölunda? Because if you do, you IMO have a very loose term of "carrying". Växjö is not a dumpster team, they're quite the opposite.

The modo that Nylander played on went from a playoff team with him, to them being *saved in relegation*. Heck, a 43 year old Donald Brashear was the highlight of that team.

Anyways, back to EP. Picked up an assist in a 2-1 OT Växjö win vs HV71.


----------



## Zombotron

Watsatheo said:


> Nucks have some gems now. Good for them, their fans had it pretty bad for a while.



Pettersson, Gaudette and the Whitecaps' playoff run are all we have right now.


----------



## GetFocht

Horvat, Pettersson, Gaudette, Boeser, Juolevi, Lind, Demko, and Diepetro.


----------



## elitepete

PorscheDesign said:


> Horvat, Pettersson, Gaudette, Boeser, Juolevi, Lind, Demko, and Diepetro.



But only Juolevi on defense that has top pairing potential


----------



## Arizonan God

Petterson is great, but I don’t think he’s the best player in the draft.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Arizonan God said:


> Petterson is great, but I don’t think he’s the best player in the draft.



I don't think it's out of the question that he evolves into it. At the moment though the best bet is Hischier followed by Patrick. Pettersson is off to a very promising start, and it will be interesting to see him in December/January at the WJC, where he should be expected to be one of the best players on the ice.


----------



## lawrence

Zombotron said:


> Pettersson, Gaudette and the Whitecaps' playoff run are all we have right now.




juolevi had 0 points in 4 1st 4 games since has 4 points in his last 3 games. Brock Boeser is leading our team in scoring, plus we have a top 5pick at the 2018 draft.


----------



## lawrence

Zombotron said:


> Pettersson, Gaudette and the Whitecaps' playoff run are all we have right now.




juolevi had 0 points in 4 1st 4 games since has 4 points in his last 3 games. Brock Boeser is leading our team in scoring, plus we have a top 5pick at the 2018 draft.


----------



## Zaddy

93LEAFS said:


> I don't think it's out of the question that he evolves into it. At the moment though the best bet is Hischier followed by Patrick. Pettersson is off to a very promising start, and it will be interesting to see him in December/January at the WJC, where he should be expected to be one of the best players on the ice.




Well, Miro Heiskanen is PPG through 8 games (4 goals) in Liiga as a defenseman. I'd say he's a pretty good bet too. Honestly a lot of the guys in the 1st round are doing really well so far. It's really up in the air as to who'll be the best from this draft.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Zaddy said:


> Well, Miro Heiskanen is PPG through 8 games (4 goals) in Liiga as a defenseman. I'd say he's a pretty good bet too. Honestly a lot of the guys in the 1st round are doing really well so far. It's really up in the air as to who'll be the best from this draft.



I avoided mentioning the non-NHLers or players who weren't getting serious ice-time in the show. As stated, a bunch of guys are off to promising starts like Glass, Chytil, Yamamoto, Liljegren, Suzuki, Poehling, etc. Hischier and Patrick are the only guys I would take over Pettersson at the moment without thinking hard. Past that, there are a bunch I'd debate. But, I would probably have him around 3 or 4, at the draft I had him at 5 behind Hischier, Patrick, Vilardi, and Heiskanen in that order. I don't know what the hell is going on with Vilardi at the moment (have heard various rumors but nothing concrete), so he's passed him until I see Vilardi back with improved skating and dominance.

I'd probably take Heiskanen for my team, but on a BPA debate, I'd say him vs Pettersson is a very good debate at the moment. Although, 15 to 20 games (plus pre-season), isn't enough for me to seriously change opinions on a prospect year. At game 35 to 40 I'll start to re-think it.

I don't think the top of this draft was good enough that the early NHLers may create a gap that looks borderline insurmountable like Matthews and McDavid did early on (and to even catch the 2nd guys in those drafts is a hell of a challenge). It wouldn't surprise me at all if the best player in this draft ended up being a non-top 3 pick like 2011 (Schiefele or Kucherov) and 2012 (probably Forsberg).


----------



## Blade Paradigm

93LEAFS said:


> I don't know what the hell is going on with Vilardi at the moment (have heard various rumors but nothing concrete), so he's passed him until I see Vilardi back with improved skating and dominance.



According to Jon Rosen of Fox Sports West, Vilardi has been recovering from a back sprain and a hip injury. He was cleared to skate last week.

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/hockey/news/kings-gabriel-vilardi-continuing-rehab/


> *Kings' Gabriel Vilardi: Continuing rehab*
> by RotoWire Staff Oct 12, 2017 • 1 min read Update Oct 12, 2017, 7:19pm
> 
> Vilardi (back) is taking part in off-ice strength and conditioning, Jon Rosen of Fox Sports West reports.
> 
> Reading between the lines, Vilardi may be making progress but has yet to resume skating, which should be a concern for fantasy owners. Taken with the 11th overall pick in the 2017 NHL Draft, the 18-year-old will probably be sent back to juniors once cleared to play -- likely reuniting with OHL Windsor, where he spent the previous two seasons.



https://lakingsinsider.com/2017/10/...-explanation-last-nights-protocol-via-report/


> *Vilardi cleared to start skating; last night’s protocol explanation, via report*
> Jon Rosen
> October 24, 2017
> 
> A quick note to pass along, and some context:
> 
> Top 2017 draft pick Gabriel Vilardi has been cleared to “start to skate,” according to a team source, and the Kings will continue to monitor his progress. *Vilardi, the Windsor Spitfires forward selected 11th overall at the NHL Draft, has remained in Los Angeles and has been seen in team areas at the club’s El Segundo training facility and at Staples Center but had not participated in on-ice activities at development camp or training camp as he rehabilitated a back sprain, as announced by the team at the outset of rookie camp, as well as a hip injury, as noted by Jim Parker of the Windsor Star through correspondence with Windsor GM Warren Rychel.
> 
> Because of soreness in his hip and back, Vilardi did not take part in lower-body testing at the NHL Combine in early June, as shared by NHL.com.*
> 
> Though there is no timetable for the next step in Vilardi’s progress, let alone when he may be cleared to return to the Spitfires, this represents the first step forward in his attempt to resume more regular hockey activity. Again, he’ll continue to be monitored and evaluated.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

PorscheDesign said:


> Horvat, Pettersson, Gaudette, Boeser, Juolevi, Lind, Demko, and Diepetro.



Dahlen....?


----------



## GetFocht

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Dahlen....?




Also forgot about Goldobin.


----------



## Peen

PorscheDesign said:


> Also forgot about Goldobin.



Pretty sure management did too.


----------



## Smeagoal

Peen said:


> Pretty sure management did too.



Oooo Goldy takin shots.


----------



## Scorevat53

PorscheDesign said:


> Horvat, Pettersson, Gaudette, Boeser, Juolevi, Lind, Demko, and Diepetro.




The only unfortunate thing is that we are short on D prospects, I mean Troy was a nice surprise, but other than that I am not all that high on Hutton. Juolevi is of course around, but who else? We have gotten off to a good start, but getting an ELITE Dman would be very beneficial for the Canucks.


----------



## GetFocht

Scorevat53 said:


> The only unfortunate thing is that we are short on D prospects, I mean Troy was a nice surprise, but other than that I am not all that high on Hutton. Juolevi is of course around, but who else? We have gotten off to a good start, but getting an ELITE Dman would be very beneficial for the Canucks.




Stecher and Hutton should be good top 4/5 defenceman. Juolevi should be a top 2 defenceman and luckily we have Tanev. However, I agree Canucks need to ramp up their defence for the future.


----------



## Scorevat53

PorscheDesign said:


> Stecher and Hutton should be good top 4/5 defenceman. Juolevi should be a top 2 defenceman and luckily we have Tanev. However, I agree Canucks need to ramp up their defence for the future.



Then I am curious, how do you feel about Pouliot? Potentially a 3rd pair?


----------



## Healthy DiPietro

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Dahlen....?




Why are you always so obnoxious? You could just have written "Don't forget about Dahlén", or "Dahlén too".


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Pekkafromswe said:


> Why are you always so obnoxious? You could just have written "Don't forget about Dahlén", or "Dahlén too".



Im not obnoxious, always... Why are you always so mean, Wennerholm? :’(


----------



## PinkFly

He's good, but he's no Nylander.


----------



## Scott Stevens

You’re right. The only way we can compare the two is production at the same age. And according to that, Pettersson is better. 

“Elias Pettersson didn’t just set the all-time scoring record for Allsvenskan, Sweden’s 2nd tier men’s league behind the SHL, among draft eligibles. He *obliterated* the next closest draft eligible season (which belonged to our very own William Nylander, who himself had dethroned Alex Wennberg) by 23%. That’s a LOT.”


----------



## Fantomas

It's funny how William Nylander is suddenly some kind of gold standard for Swedish prospects. I remember a couple of years ago there was a poll on HF comparing him with Anthony Mantha and it was a dead heat. I thought it was funny, but many people didn't.

And up until this year William was seen as the less talented brother between he and Alexander.

Nylander is a great player now, but when we compare him to Pettersson as prospects there is no contest. Pettersson is a significantly better prospect in terms of both optics and potential.


----------



## lawrence

PinkFly said:


> He's good, but he's no Nylander.




Who said he was Nylander? They don't even move or play the same way, let alone aesthetics , body size height and weight.


----------



## PinkFly

Fantomas said:


> It's funny how William Nylander is suddenly some kind of gold standard for Swedish prospects. I remember a couple of years ago there was a poll on HF comparing him with Anthony Mantha and it was a dead heat. I thought it was funny, but many people didn't.
> 
> And up until this year William was seen as the less talented brother between he and Alexander.
> 
> Nylander is a great player now, but when we compare him to Pettersson as prospects there is no contest. Pettersson is a significantly better prospect in terms of both optics and potential.




William Nylander is right up there with Nicklas Backstrom and Peter Forsberg in terms of Swedish prospects. He's the best since those 2 and Pettersson is the best since Nylander. Atleast that's how I see it. Pettersson is really good, don't get me wrong, but objectively, Nylander is superior as a prospect.

That said I would love Pettersson on the leafs.


----------



## BROCK HUGHES

PinkFly said:


> William Nylander is right up there with Nicklas Backstrom and Peter Forsberg in terms of Swedish prospects. He's the best since those 2 and Pettersson is the best since Nylander. Atleast that's how I see it. Pettersson is really good, don't get me wrong, but objectively, Nylander is superior as a prospect.
> 
> That said I would love Pettersson on the leafs.



Nylander is not even close to Backstrom and Forsberg.Until he starts putting up big numbers then there is no compairison.


----------



## Fantomas

PinkFly said:


> William Nylander is right up there with Nicklas Backstrom and Peter Forsberg in terms of Swedish prospects. He's the best since those 2 and Pettersson is the best since Nylander. Atleast that's how I see it. Pettersson is really good, don't get me wrong, but objectively, Nylander is superior as a prospect.




Nylander isn't a prospect anymore.


----------



## PinkFly

MAGICMAN1963 said:


> Nylander is not even close to Backstrom and Forsberg.Until he starts putting up big numbers then there is no compairison.




I meant when he was a prospect.



Fantomas said:


> Nylander isn't a prospect anymore.




My apologies. I meant to say when he was still a prospect.


----------



## lawrence

was scored on only twice 5 on 5, in his 1st 13 games. 

defensive beast.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Fantomas said:


> It's funny how William Nylander is suddenly some kind of gold standard for Swedish prospects. I remember a couple of years ago there was a poll on HF comparing him with Anthony Mantha and it was a dead heat. I thought it was funny, but many people didn't.
> 
> And up until this year William was seen as the less talented brother between he and Alexander.
> 
> Nylander is a great player now, but when we compare him to Pettersson as prospects there is no contest. Pettersson is a significantly better prospect in terms of both optics and potential.



William was always viewed as the more talented brother. People saying Alex was more talented were in the extreme minority. Nylander also entered his draft season with the highest pedigree of any recent Swedish forward, it isn't even that close. His status slipped, but was quickly regained in his draft+1.

Both Wennberg and Pettersson were also late birthdays. Nylander always showed up better against his own age group. Trying to figure out the balance of D+1 and actual age is always a difficult equation, as it always puts one group at a disadvantage.


----------



## Fantomas

93LEAFS said:


> William was always viewed as the more talented brother. People saying Alex was more talented were in the extreme minority. Nylander also entered his draft season with the highest pedigree of any recent Swedish forward, it isn't even that close. His status slipped, but was quickly regained in his draft+1.
> 
> Both Wennberg and Pettersson were also late birthdays. Nylander always showed up better against his own age group. Trying to figure out the balance of D+1 and actual age is always a difficult equation, as it always puts one group at a disadvantage.




Before he struggled in the AHL, Alex was considered the better prospect by almost everybody. And that is simply what I meant.

And I mean no disrespect to William Nylander, but his status as a prospect was a little ambiguous after he was drafted. He didn't make THN's top 10, but I think Pettersson will.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Fantomas said:


> Before he struggled in the AHL, Alex was considered the better prospect by almost everybody. And that is simply what I meant.
> 
> And I mean no disrespect to William Nylander, but his status as a prospect was a little ambiguous after he was drafted. He didn't make THN's top 10, but I think Pettersson will.



William was the most hyped Swedish forward entering his draft year. At comparable points, Alex was never notably ahead. Also, funny you mention THN's top 10, William was 2nd by that same publication. Pronman in his yearly rankings of guys at their draft date had William ahead of Alex. 

You are simply mistaken on how Alex was viewed. William was viewed as notably ahead entering their draft year. At the time of their draft date it was at best equal, but probably favoring William. Here is a post of mine (since the new system won't let me go to the original thing I'm quoting in this post) on the topic.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/126064397/

Here is the Gare Joyce piece I reference but don't have quotes in that post. But, William was always viewed as the more talented of the two brothers, but was more blamed for playing a selfish and unstructured game in his draft season. Alex's game was viewed as more team friendly.

This is getting way off-topic though. Pettersson is off to a good start, and deserves the hype he is getting. But, I don't think he was more hyped at his draft date or now than William Nylander was.


----------



## Fantomas

93LEAFS said:


> William was the most hyped Swedish forward entering his draft year. At comparable points, Alex was never notably ahead. Also, funny you mention THN's top 10, William was 2nd by that same publication. Pronman in his yearly rankings of guys at their draft date had William ahead of Alex.




Yes, William was 2nd a year later which is where his stock began to rise, which would also be the only time he and his younger brother could be ranked alongside each other due to their age difference.

I don't think Pronman's rankings are representative of broader perception, but it is also not unusual to see an older prospect ranked above a younger one. More accurate to look at how the two were perceived at about the same age during and after the draft, which coincidentally is Pettersson's current situation.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Fantomas said:


> Yes, William was 2nd a year later which is where his stock began to rise. Pronman's rankings are typically outside of mainstream perception, but what ranking specifically are you referring to here? William and Alexander were drafted two years apart, so I don't see how any ranking can back up what you're saying.



If you put that much weight into to THN's rankings. Last year in their top 100 21 and under, William was 13th and Alex was 48th. This was before Alex ever played an AHL game. Alex was never viewed as a better prospect than William, at the time they were both prospects. And, its never clear that Alex was viewed as better at the same ages. My post also references multiple quotes by scouts and scouting services comparing the two brothers. You also can't compare prospects on different lists 2 years apart, because the quality of that list changes. 

But either way, this is vastly off-topic in a Elias Pettersson thread. Pettersson is doing well, and it will be interesting to see how he finishes out the year and performs at the WJC. But, I don't think he was notably ahead of where Willy was viewed at the time of his draft. I mean, if you want to look at lists years apart, William was 9th by McKenzie in his draft year, Pettersson was 7th in his and Alex was 7th. I don't think that is a large gap, and William entered his draft year with the most hype.


----------



## Fantomas

93LEAFS said:


> If you put that much weight into to THN's rankings. Last year in their top 100 21 and under, William was 13th and Alex was 48th.




Was this future watch? That usually comes out in the spring.

Not to derail this thread any further, but my point is to say that there is no way William Nylander was looked at as highly as Pettersson at the age of 18 among scouts. Not in my experience and I know many scouts.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Fantomas said:


> Was this future watch? That usually comes out in the spring.
> 
> Not to derail this thread any further, but my point is to say that there is no way William Nylander was looked at as highly as Pettersson at the age of 18 among scouts. Not in my experience and I know many scouts.



It was the new issue they come out with every year in November that ranks the top players 21 and under.

I think your opinion is wrong, but I'm not going to debate the validity of the scouts you claim to know. I don't think any of the 3 had a margin that you can claim was large and it would have been relatively divided. This isn't like Dahlin or Hedman, who would be ahead of all of them by a landslide. People I've talked to who work the industry wouldn't claim it's a landslide in the manner you are.

Here's this years issue, but the rankings I referenced were from last years.

https://tvastore.com/collections/the-hockey-news/products/nov-06-2017-prospects-unlimited-7106


----------



## Fantomas

93LEAFS said:


> It was the new issue they come out with every year in November that ranks the top players 21 and under.
> 
> I think your opinion is wrong, but I'm not going to debate the validity of the scouts you claim to know. I don't think any of the 3 had a margin that you can claim was large and it would have been relatively divided. This isn't like Dahlin or Hedman, who would be ahead of all of them by a landslide. People I've talked to who work the industry wouldn't claim it's a landslide in the manner you are.




So right after Nylander's terrible training camp. Ok.

I don't think William vs. Alex was a landslide in the sense that one was seen as way better than the other. Rather Alex was seen as the more promising prospect by most people in his draft year and he rode that wave until disappointing majorly in the fall of '16.

This is my take on that pulse of things.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Fantomas said:


> So right after Nylander's terrible training camp. Ok.
> 
> I don't think William vs. Alex was a landslide in the sense that one was seen as way better than the other. Rather Alex was seen as the more promising prospect by most people in his draft year and he rode that wave until disappointing majorly in the fall of '16.
> 
> This is my take on that pulse of things.



My guess is the list is formulated before training camp. I got mine over a week ago, which is mid-October, and there's all the publication hassles. It is probably formulated in August. Similar to how Future Watch is done post WJC, but isn't published until late February. Also, a bad training camp doesn't make it a 25 spot difference. 

You may have that perception because Willy was a faller (started top 3), whereas the other two started in the teens and rose. I don't think anyone thought there was a wide gap between the 3 at any point.


----------



## ulvvf

Fantomas said:


> It's funny how William Nylander is suddenly some kind of gold standard for Swedish prospects. I remember a couple of years ago there was a poll on HF comparing him with Anthony Mantha and it was a dead heat. I thought it was funny, but many people didn't.
> 
> *And up until this year William was seen as the less talented brother between he and Alexander.*
> 
> Nylander is a great player now, but when we compare him to Pettersson as prospects there is no contest. Pettersson is a significantly better prospect in terms of both optics and potential.




No he wasnt, William has pretty much always been seen as the bigger talent of the 2 brothers, do not know where you have got the idea of that Alex have been seen as the bigger talent of them 2? 

I think Pettersson and Nylander are pretty much on the same level talentwise.


----------



## Luddowich

Sami Salo said:


> You’re right. The only way we can compare the two is production at the same age. And according to that, Pettersson is better.
> 
> “Elias Pettersson didn’t just set the all-time scoring record for Allsvenskan, Sweden’s 2nd tier men’s league behind the SHL, among draft eligibles. He *obliterated* the next closest draft eligible season (which belonged to our very own William Nylander, who himself had dethroned Alex Wennberg) by 23%. That’s a LOT.”



You should know that the Allsvenskan Nylander played in during that year is a lot stronger than the Allsvenskan we see today, and you would also know what a disaster his time was with his dad at Rögle. I find it curious that you compare the production at the same age, which without a doubt Nylander has destroyed Pettersson in. Nylander has literally scored PPG and plus in every tournament or league hes played in club wise or internationally. Although you can only speculate, Pettersson currently plays on a power house in Växjö while Nylander played on an Allsvenskan team which further makes Nylanders season more ridiculous.



Fantomas said:


> It's funny how William Nylander is suddenly some kind of gold standard for Swedish prospects. I remember a couple of years ago there was a poll on HF comparing him with Anthony Mantha and it was a dead heat. I thought it was funny, but many people didn't.
> 
> And up until this year William was seen as the less talented brother between he and Alexander.
> 
> Nylander is a great player now, but when we compare him to Pettersson as prospects there is no contest. Pettersson is a significantly better prospect in terms of both optics and potential.



William is the current goal standard of forward prospects that we've had during the 2010's. Further, i remember when all of HT thought that he was one dimensional, had character issues and didn't pass the puck. Well, it turns out it wasn't true.

I don't know where you've gathered this information from but Alex was never seen as the more talented player between the two. Alex didn't even make the first U16 Swedish national team, he was a late bloomer. William was a child prodigy who played with the U17 team when in his U16 season. The people who thought Alex was the more talented player was likely just leafs hater or well, leafs haters. Alex scored about PPG in his D-1 season, William scored 1.6 PPG in his. If William never transfered to Rögle he wouldn't have gone at #8 i tell you that.

Comparing Pettersson to William it's a lot closer though, but the fact that you say that Pettersson and William as prospects is no contest just says it all LOL. Like really, can we stop with the hyperbole in this thread?



MAGICMAN1963 said:


> Nylander is not even close to Backstrom and Forsberg.Until he starts putting up big numbers then there is no compairison.



As prospects, William was indeed up with those guys. A hype that Pettersson and Alex has never gathered in Sweden.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Luddowich said:


> You should know that the Allsvenskan Nylander played in during that year is a lot stronger than the Allsvenskan we see today, and you would also know what a disaster his time was with his dad at Rögle. I find it curious that you compare the production at the same age, which without a doubt Nylander has destroyed Pettersson in. Nylander has literally scored PPG and plus in every tournament or league hes played in club wise or internationally. Although you can only speculate, Pettersson currently plays on a power house in Växjö while Nylander played on an Allsvenskan team which further makes Nylanders season more ridiculous.
> 
> 
> William is the current goal standard of forward prospects that we've had during the 2010's. Further, i remember when all of HT thought that he was one dimensional, had character issues and didn't pass the puck. Well, it turns out it wasn't true.
> 
> I don't know where you've gathered this information from but Alex was never seen as the more talented player between the two. Alex didn't even make the first U16 Swedish national team, he was a late bloomer. William was a child prodigy who played with the U17 team when in his U16 season. The people who thought Alex was the more talented player was likely just leafs hater or well, leafs haters. Alex scored about PPG in his D-1 season, William scored 1.6 PPG in his. If William never transfered to Rögle he wouldn't have gone at #8 i tell you that.
> 
> Comparing Pettersson to William it's a lot closer though, but the fact that you say that Pettersson and William as prospects is no contest just says it all LOL. Like really, can we stop with the hyperbole in this thread?
> 
> 
> As prospects, William was indeed up with those guys. A hype that Pettersson and Alex has never gathered in Sweden.



Haha, as Forsberg? Naw, not really.


----------



## Pavels Dog

Fantomas said:


> It's funny how William Nylander is suddenly some kind of gold standard for Swedish prospects. I remember a couple of years ago there was a poll on HF comparing him with Anthony Mantha and it was a dead heat. I thought it was funny, but many people didn't.



.. is it supposed to be funny? They weren't too far off in PPG last season and this year Mantha has 1 less point through 12 games, considering the difference in team scoring (Toronto averaging over 1.0G/Game more than Detroit) it's basically a dead heat between the two production-wise.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Fantomas said:


> And up until this year William was seen as the less talented brother between he and Alexander.




What? Who said that?

Seems like everyone already covered this, but I disagree with this comment.


----------



## Luddowich

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Haha, as Forsberg? Naw, not really.



I googled "William Nylander Foppa" and immediately got an article from aftonbladet saying he could be our next Forsberg. I remember multiple articles from years ago reading about him where the same praise was given. But i guess thats just my opinion then.


----------



## WetcoastOrca

Luddowich said:


> I googled "William Nylander Foppa" and immediately got an article from aftonbladet saying he could be our next Forsberg. I remember multiple articles from years ago reading about him where the same praise was given. But i guess thats just my opinion then.



There's always lots of hype about prospects being the next (insert great players name). 
I always take that hype with a large grain of salt.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Luddowich said:


> I googled "William Nylander Foppa" and immediately got an article from aftonbladet saying he could be our next Forsberg. I remember multiple articles from years ago reading about him where the same praise was given. But i guess thats just my opinion then.



Are you one of those that listens to chums like Wennerholm and Ros....?


----------



## Canadian Canuck

PinkFly said:


> He's good, but he's no Nylander.



You're right, he'll be better.


----------



## PinkFly

Canadian Canuck said:


> You're right, he'll be better.




I agree. He'll be better than Alex Nylander. William Nylander? Doubtful.


----------



## Canadian Canuck

PinkFly said:


> I agree. He'll be better than Alex Nylander. William Nylander? Doubtful.



Most likely not doubtful. Comparing they're stats in the same league it's not even close. Pettersson is doing what he's doing on the 3rd line with little ice time. It's insane.


----------



## PinkFly

Canadian Canuck said:


> Most likely not doubtful. Comparing they're stats in the same league it's not even close. Pettersson is doing what he's doing on the 3rd line with little ice time. It's insane.




Yeah, the chances of Pettersson dropping a 60 point rookie season and being near ppg in his sophmore season are astronomically high.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Canadian Canuck said:


> Most likely not doubtful. Comparing they're stats in the same league it's not even close. Pettersson is doing what he's doing on the 3rd line with little ice time. It's insane.



Depends if you want to go by draft year or age, and their is an argument for choosing either. William played on a terrible Modo team and had a similar scoring rate at 18. At 19 he was the best offensive player in the AHL. Nylander has also done notably better against his age group at IIHF events.


----------



## EK47

Canadian Canuck said:


> Most likely not doubtful. Comparing they're stats in the same league it's not even close. Pettersson is doing what he's doing on the 3rd line with little ice time. It's insane.




He's averaging top 6 minutes, right now slotted on the first line, last game he actually played 22 minutes, on top of that he's always getting a bulk of the PP minutes. 

On Nylander, I'm sorry that's just not true, it's the same league yeah. However Växjö is stacked (don't let the other players point totals fool you), probably the best team in the SHL on paper, meaning Pettersson has far better teammates to pass the puck to, or receive passes from and vice versa. Also from watching most of Nylanders games when he played in the SHL in his draft +1 year, subjectively I think what Nylander did was more impressive he just ran the entire game in a way that I'm not confident Elias is able to do in the SHL yet.


----------



## CherryToke

I'm just happy he's in the same discussion as Will Nye. There doesn't seem to be much doubt that he will be a legit top 6 forward at this point.


----------



## docbenton

I can understand some of the offensive concerns but he's a much better player without the puck than Nylander at the same age. That much is evident and it's not close; Elias is very responsible defensively and has a good mind for that part of the game. 

I like what Vancouver is doing with their centers - if they can have Horvat, Pettersson, Gaudette, and Sutter down the middle, they should be pretty hard to score against. Love good 2-way centers and Van could have 4 of them.


----------



## WetcoastOrca

docbenton said:


> I can understand some of the offensive concerns but he's a much better player without the puck than Nylander at the same age. That much is evident and it's not close; Elias is very responsible defensively and has a good mind for that part of the game.
> 
> I like what Vancouver is doing with their centers - if they can have Horvat, Pettersson, Gaudette, and Sutter down the middle, they should be pretty hard to score against. Love good 2-way centers and Van could have 4 of them.



Thanks for the objective evaluation. 
It's great to hear from someone whose watched both players


----------



## M2Beezy

Man o man all this discussion on him comparing him to others i thought this was gonna be updates about how hes doing now cmon guys lets stick to what the majority of us want to read about here and end the pointless comparisons with Nylander til there both in the NHL for a few years


----------



## Tv9924

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Man o man all this discussion on him comparing him to others i thought this was gonna be updates about how hes doing now cmon guys lets stick to what the majority of us want to read about here and end the pointless comparisons with Nylander til there both in the NHL for a few years



You know things are bad when M2B is the voice of reason.


----------



## Bustedprospect

Nylander was a floater at same age. This guy is really sound in the defensive play AND putting up the points. Reminds me more of a Zetterberg.


----------



## Grub

Lots of off topic with the Nylander comparisons... but I'm just pissed off at the fact the Canucks skipped on Nylander and drafted Virtanen. 61 Point rookie season? Damn when was the last time a Canuck prospect went and did that (maybe Bure??).. if I had Nylander on my team I would be bragging. At the same time I am quite satisfied that Petterson is being discussed as comparable to Nylander.


----------



## Walshy7

Grub said:


> Lots of off topic with the Nylander comparisons... but I'm just pissed off at the fact the Canucks skipped on Nylander and drafted Virtanen. 61 Point rookie season? Damn when was the last time a Canuck prospect went and did that (maybe Bure??).. if I had Nylander on my team I would be bragging. At the same time I am quite satisfied that Petterson is being discussed as comparable to Nylander.




imagine you had both!!!, seriously though looks like petterson is living up to or exceeding expectations that's good


----------



## PinkFly

Walshy7 said:


> imagine you had both!!!, seriously though looks like petterson is living up to or exceeding expectations that's good




Hopefully Pettersson gets traded to the Leafs.


----------



## Dump Itch

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Man o man all this discussion on him comparing him to others i thought this was gonna be updates about how hes doing now cmon guys lets stick to what the majority of us want to read about here and end the pointless comparisons with Nylander til there both in the NHL for a few years



Almost ran out of breath reading that. Phew


----------



## lawrence

Grub said:


> Lots of off topic with the Nylander comparisons... but I'm just pissed off at the fact the Canucks skipped on Nylander and drafted Virtanen. 61 Point rookie season? Damn when was the last time a Canuck prospect went and did that (maybe Bure??).. if I had Nylander on my team I would be bragging. At the same time I am quite satisfied that Petterson is being discussed as comparable to Nylander.




another one of those "they sky is falling" Canuck fans.

You make a solid point. that said if we did draft Nylander or Ehlers, we wouldn't have had the chance to draft Pettersson. So it balances out.


----------



## nickdawg95

yeah but mittlestadt is the best player from this draft


----------



## lawrence

nickdawg95 said:


> yeah but mittlestadt is the best player from this draft




had to mention it in the Pettersson thread. Oh what are the odds of that happening. Didn't say it in the Patrick, Heicher, or Miro thread. had to do it here. 

hfboards at its finest.


----------



## nickdawg95

lawrence said:


> had to mention it in the Pettersson thread. Oh what are the odds of that happening. Didn't say it in the Patrick, Heicher, or Miro thread. had to do it here.
> 
> hfboards at its finest.



said it in the makar thread, who is the 2nd best player in that draft only behind mittlestadt


----------



## Elias Pettersson

nickdawg95 said:


> said it in the makar thread, who is the 2nd best player in that draft only behind mittlestadt



mittlestadt is only point per game...and he's playing in the garbage big-10 division. If he wants to be a star prospect, he needs to be way above PPG in NCAA, like what Brock Boeser did.
Pettersson is way better and more impressive. sorry bud.


----------



## lawrence

nickdawg95 said:


> said it in the makar thread, who is the 2nd best player in that draft only behind mittlestadt




mittlestadt? the guy with 47% of his stats last season at even Strength? the guy that relied heavily on power play points? ok sures.


----------



## Canucks LB

Casey is a special player


----------



## adsfan

I think you people are thinking of the wrong Pettersson. Brother Emil, also a C, has 4 G, 7 A in 8 games for Milwaukee. If he adds about 10 pounds of muscle, he will be a handful for ANY team.


----------



## elitepete

Wtf is a middle stat? This is the Elias Pettersson thread.


----------



## Breakers

Neither player has even played 20 games yet


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Thats the worst logic tha a biased fan can use. ”We’re lucky that we traded får Erat, otherwise we wouldnt have Burakovsky!” - do you see how stupid that looks? If your management werent dumb enough to pick Virtanen and Julouiuiuvuvivu(?), maybe you could ”have em all”? Dont try to justify bad management by saying ”its good that we were dumb, so that we can be smart now!”, instead of being angry att your management for not doing its job every year


----------



## ZINFINITY16

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Thats the worst logic tha a biased fan can use. ”We’re lucky that we traded får Erat, otherwise we wouldnt have Burakovsky!” - do you see how stupid that looks? If your management werent dumb enough to pick Virtanen and *Julouiuiuvuvivu(?)*, maybe you could ”have em all”? Dont try to justify bad management by saying ”its good that we were dumb, so that we can be smart now!”, instead of being angry att your management for not doing its job every year



You know it's Juolevi, I hope? No where near that difficult. Also, no need to make fun of a prospect's name because he is from a different country. Also, people aren't letting VAN managemtn off the hook, they just ae happy they made a very strong pick. I'm a leafs fan and personally believe petersson has the potential to be the best player in the draft.. so not only canucks fans being dumb as you say


----------



## EK47

What's wrong with Juolevi? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I don't know, haven't followed him since like before the draft.


----------



## 93LEAFS

EK47 said:


> What's wrong with Juolevi? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I don't know, haven't followed him since like before the draft.



Bad pre-season and sub-par draft +1 where he was outplayed by Mete. Last year he stagnated, so its imperative he takes some positive steps forward this year.


----------



## nickdawg95

Elias Pettersson said:


> mittlestadt is only point per game...and he's playing in the garbage big-10 division. If he wants to be a star prospect, he needs to be way above PPG in NCAA, like what Brock Boeser did.
> Pettersson is way better and more impressive. sorry bud.



mittlestadt is the best out of the two, he's faster, stronger, goes into the dirty areas and has more skill, please. no contest


----------



## Szechwan

Anyways.... moving on, since this is the Pettersson thread and not about Juolevi and Mittlestadt...

Courtesy of @Zombotron, some interesting info and a quick clip.


Zombotron said:


>




_
*Q:* Elias is young... do you think he has an opportunity (to make the Swedish Olympic team?)
*A:* He's one of the top scorers in the league... if he continues like this, I don't see why he wouldn't get a look for the national team

*Q:* How much "polishing" do you have to do with a player like Elias?
*A:* Not a lot, very humble, such great skill; out on the ice late every day working on stuff - almost like a veteran already

*Q:* Will this be the last we see of him in the SHL?
*A:* Mixed feelings about that - part of you hopes so, part of you wants him to be a big part of the team

*Q:* His strength as a player, minus the goal-sniping ability?
*A:* Hockey smarts - offensively, defensively - might not look pretty but he seems to win all of his battles down-low, in the corners, and even though he's lighter than everyone else, he comes out with the puck_


----------



## elitepete

nickdawg95 said:


> mittlestadt is the best out of the two, he's faster, stronger, goes into the dirty areas and has more skill, please. no contest



Mittelstadt is soft as f***, Petterson makes more plays around the net and boards.

Plus he has higher IQ, bigger frame, better shot, and about equal puckhandling.

And he plays a two way game unlike Middle stat.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Szechwan said:


> _*Q:* His strength as a player, minus the goal-sniping ability?
> *A:* Hockey smarts - offensively, defensively - might not look pretty but he seems to win all of his battles down-low, in the corners, and even though he's lighter than everyone else, he comes out with the puck_




Yup, I thought he was the smartest player in the last draft AINEC.


----------



## EK47

93LEAFS said:


> Bad pre-season and sub-par draft +1 where he was outplayed by Mete. Last year he stagnated, so its imperative he takes some positive steps forward this year.



Ok thanks! I promise to stay on topic from now on.


----------



## EK47

About not going to the dirty areas, I've actually seen him take the hard way to the goal on numerous occations this season. Sure he is a playmaker by default he plays more on the perimeter than most players, but for a playmaker I'd actually say he's pretty willing to get down and dirty, now if he does it well is another question.


----------



## lawrence

EK47 said:


> What's wrong with Juolevi? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I don't know, haven't followed him since like before the draft.





From a Canucks fans point of view.

Retained the same amount of points as he did the previous year, but this time without Tkachuk,Marner ,Dvorak line.

Outplayed Mikael Sergachev in the playoffs.

4 points in his last 3 games, (Juolevi) in the finish leauge.

*Update*

Finnish hockey federation has Contacted the Vancouver Canucks in regards to having him compete at the 2018 Olympics.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

ZINFINITY16 said:


> You know it's Juolevi, I hope? No where near that difficult. Also, no need to make fun of a prospect's name because he is from a different country. Also, people aren't letting VAN managemtn off the hook, they just ae happy they made a very strong pick. I'm a leafs fan and personally believe petersson has the potential to be the best player in the draft.. so not only canucks fans being dumb as you say



Funnily enough, Virtanen is a Finnish surname as well.


----------



## Knucklehead

nickdawg95 said:


> said it in the makar thread, who is the 2nd best player in that draft only behind mittlestadt




lol what a laugh not wrong once but on both accounts lol


----------



## PM

How is crediting another team's player and being pissed off that we should have drafted them make someone a "sky is falling" Canucks fan? There was nothing wrong with the post you quoted, you are getting too emotional about what other people say of Canucks prospects and this is coming from a Canucks fan.


----------



## Offre Hostile

lawrence said:


> 4 points in his last 3 games, (Juolevi) in the finish leauge.
> 
> *Update*
> 
> Finnish hockey federation has Contacted the Vancouver Canucks in regards to having him compete at the 2018 Olympics.




It's a little premature to judge him from his last three games and getting a window opened for the Olympics. I've watched almost all his games in Finland so far and while he's getting better and more confident with the puck, he hasn't really been much more than a reliable 2nd pairing guy in the team. I really hope he gets his development back on track though, he's showing steps forward at the moment.


----------



## Josepho

EK47 said:


> About not going to the dirty areas, I've actually seen him take the hard way to the goal on numerous occations this season. Sure he is a playmaker by default he plays more on the perimeter than most players, but for a playmaker I'd actually say he's pretty willing to get down and dirty, now if he does it well is another question.




Yeah, I can't help but believe that people are just looking at his passport when they make those "afraid of contact" comments.

The most surprising and impressive thing for me when I watched a few Vaxjo games was the fact that he's actually a pretty relentless forechecker -- especially for someone who isn't exactly a speedster.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Another GOAL!

Honestly, I didn't expect him to have a great shot because everyone only raved about his playmaking abilities... But he's been scoring quite a few beauties recently.


----------



## Luddowich

Elias Pettersson said:


> Another GOAL!
> 
> Honestly, I didn't expect him to have a great shot because everyone only raved about his playmaking abilities... But he's been scoring quite a few beauties recently.




And the fact that his future added weight will only add more power on that thing.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Finished the game with 1G 1A. Now has: 6 goals 11 assists for 17 points in 14 games... That's out of this world production for an 18 year old in the SHL. Just look at this pGPS graph!



Projected 100 points in a full NHL season lol. I'm sure Pettersson won't turn out that good, but that's encouraging to see.


----------



## thelittlecoon

Remember when everyone was saying Lias Andersson is the better player after the World Junior Summer Showcase and shitting on Benning for not taking Glass? 4 points in 11 games for Andersson while Pettersson is top 3 in the league. I'm getting more and more confident we got ourselves a #1 C.


----------



## DDRhockey

thelittlecoon said:


> Remember when everyone was saying Lias Andersson is the better player after the World Junior Summer Showcase and ****ting on Benning for not taking Glass? 4 points in 11 games for Andersson while Pettersson is top 3 in the league. I'm getting more and more confident we got ourselves a #1 C.



Andersson had a much better wjc than pettersson which shows how wjc production is not always important to jugde after.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

DDRhockey said:


> Andersson had a much better wjc than pettersson which shows how wjc production is not always important to jugde after.



Pettersson didn't have a bad WJC. He didn't show up that much on the scoresheet, but he played well.


----------



## DDRhockey

Well cody hogdson had an amazing wjc. I rather value regular season more.


----------



## Szechwan

thelittlecoon said:


> Remember when everyone was saying Lias Andersson is the better player after the World Junior Summer Showcase and ****ting on Benning for not taking Glass? 4 points in 11 games for Andersson while Pettersson is top 3 in the league. I'm getting more and more confident we got ourselves a #1 C.



I don't really remember that at all, most people I've seen have been pretty supportive of taking EP at 5.


I feel like you're making up confrontation here. Not necessary.


----------



## GetFocht

Elias Pettersson said:


> Finished the game with 1G 1A. Now has: 6 goals 11 assists for 17 points in 14 games... That's out of this world production for an 18 year old in the SHL. Just look at this pGPS graph!
> 
> View attachment 82261
> 
> Projected 100 points in a full NHL season lol. I'm sure Pettersson won't turn out that good, but that's encouraging to see.





lol so it looks like my 90 point projection isn't so insane like the armchair "Chayka is the best GM in the NHL" scouts on this board have said.


----------



## WetcoastOrca

Elias Pettersson said:


> Another GOAL!
> 
> Honestly, I didn't expect him to have a great shot because everyone only raved about his playmaking abilities... But he's been scoring quite a few beauties recently.




Wow! That's a goal in any league. Just an insane shot!


----------



## lawrence

Only been on the ice for 2 even strength goals against. Dude is beastie it right now.


----------



## polarbearcub

If he keeps this up the whole season.. there's no reason for him to go back to Sweden next year. You plan for him to play in Utica next year .. who knows maybe he makes the team.

So hard not to get super pumped for this kid.. we may have the best player in the draft on our hands... a potential 80 point player


----------



## Elias Pettersson

The crazy thing is Pettersson isn't putting up these numbers with a historically stacked offensive juggernaut where everyone on his line is also scoring like mad. Just look at Vaxjo's stats


----------



## EK47

Elias Pettersson said:


> Pettersson didn't have a bad WJC. He didn't show up that much on the scoresheet, but he played well.




The clip you're posting was from the one game where he was truly good. Overall though he DID have a bad WJC, and I am a huge Pettersson fan. 

I'm calling a field day for Pettersson against rögle in Växjö tomorrow I need to buy a cap in anticipation of a hattrick in the team store before the game so atleast there's one hat on the ice if it happens.


----------



## Luddowich

Elias Pettersson said:


> The crazy thing is Pettersson isn't putting up these numbers with a historically stacked offensive juggernaut where everyone on his line is also scoring like mad. Just look at Vaxjo's stats View attachment 82273



Like me and previous posters have said before, the stats aren't doing his team justice. They're so much better than that.. Let's not act like no EP equals -17 goals for Växjö. Because really, they're contenders without EP.
Now even if they were all scoring on insane levels what's EP is doing is still very impressive.
Now what I'm curious about is what happens to EP next year, he for sure has the skills but i doubt the physique will be there by next year. But then again, he's blowing my expectations away right now so.


----------



## lawrence

http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?year0=&status=stats&team=339

is this for real? dude has more assists then the next player in combined points.


----------



## DFAC

lawrence said:


> http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?year0=&status=stats&team=339
> 
> is this for real? dude has more assists then the next player in combined points.
> 
> View attachment 82275



More PIMs than the next two guys combined............goon confirmed??


----------



## thelittlecoon

Szechwan said:


> I don't really remember that at all, most people I've seen have been pretty supportive of taking EP at 5.
> 
> 
> I feel like you're making up confrontation here. Not necessary.



I'm not. The game threads during the WJSS in late July were filled with praise for Andersson and saying how much better he looked than Pettersson. Why would I make it up?


----------



## elitepete

EK47 said:


> The clip you're posting was from the one game where he was truly good. Overall though he DID have a bad WJC, and I am a huge Pettersson fan.
> 
> I'm calling a field day for Pettersson against rögle in Växjö tomorrow I need to buy a cap in anticipation of a hattrick in the team store before the game so atleast there's one hat on the ice if it happens.



He was playing through an injury in thw WJC.


----------



## Red

Luddowich said:


> Like me and previous posters have said before, the stats aren't doing his team justice. They're so much better than that.. Let's not act like no EP equals -17 goals for Växjö. Because really, they're contenders without EP.
> Now even if they were all scoring on insane levels what's EP is doing is still very impressive.
> Now what I'm curious about is what happens to EP next year, he for sure has the skills but i doubt the physique will be there by next year. But then again, he's blowing my expectations away right now so.




Sure, you can "say" his team is amazing but usually on great teams, the top scorers are pretty close.

He's outscoring the 2nd person on his team by 89%...he's legitimately doubled the output of the second scorer on his team...let's not act like no EP equals -17 goals. Ok. But it might equal -8 goals...


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

He looked like this in the Hockeyallsvenskan last year as well, then looked atrocious in the WJHC. Want to see him dominate kids the way he should, Orr rather be that leading force, on smaller ice, before I get too excited


----------



## clunk

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> He looked like this in the Hockeyallsvenskan last year as well, then looked atrocious in the WJHC. Want to see him dominate kids the way he should, Orr rather be that leading force, on smaller ice, before I get too excited



You're not excited that he's dominating fully grown men?

Wouldn't that be harder than dominating other kids?


----------



## DDRhockey

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> He looked like this in the Hockeyallsvenskan last year as well, then looked atrocious in the WJHC. Want to see him dominate kids the way he should, Orr rather be that leading force, on smaller ice, before I get too excited



Yeah lets judge a small tournament to regular season.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> He looked like this in the Hockeyallsvenskan last year as well, then looked atrocious in the WJHC. Want to see him dominate kids the way he should, Orr rather be that leading force, on smaller ice, before I get too excited



Yes! I'd way much rather see him dominate kids than adults! That is the true measure of his skill! I mean Cody Hodgson dominated kids and had a great long NHL career


----------



## Elias Pettersson




----------



## PinkFly

PorscheDesign said:


> lol so it looks like my 90 point projection isn't so insane like the armchair "Chayka is the best GM in the NHL" scouts on this board have said.




A 90 point prediction is insane. There are very few centers that have hit 90 points in the league right now. Pettersson will be good, but I find it unlikely he will ever being a top 10 center in the league. McDavid, Matthews, Barkov and Eichel will always be better.


----------



## PinkFly

Elias Pettersson said:


> View attachment 82305




Why is there a star next to Nylander P/60?


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> Yes! I'd way much rather see him dominate kids than adults! That is the true measure of his skill! I mean Cody Hodgson dominated kids and had a great long NHL career



Yeah, it comes to no surprise to me that you feel offended by my comment and fail to grasp it, but the fact is that the SHL is pretty soft and gives players to much time to think and space to make plays etc. Elias looked awful playing on smaller ice this summer and last christmas


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

clunk said:


> You're not excited that he's dominating fully grown men?
> 
> Wouldn't that be harder than dominating other kids?



That dosnt mean it’ll translate to dominating men on smaller ice and opponents not giving him as much space as in the SHL


----------



## Elias Pettersson

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Yeah, it comes to no surprise to me that you feel offended by my comment and fail to grasp it, but the fact is that the SHL is pretty soft and gives players to much time to think and space to make plays etc. Elias looked awful playing on smaller ice this summer and last christmas



It comes as no surprise to me that you're WRONG. How sad!


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> It comes as no surprise to me that you're WRONG. How sad!



How am I wrong? He did look terrible on smaller ice.
Im guessing that you'll never be objective on this matter, though.


----------



## VictorLustig

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> How am I wrong? He did look terrible on smaller ice.
> Im guessing that you'll never be objective on this matter, though.




No Swedish player looked terrible last WJC. Could he have played better? Sure. Had a very strong U18 WC 8 months earlier, on small ice.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> How am I wrong? He did look terrible on smaller ice.
> Im guessing that you'll never be objective on this matter, though.



Wrong again. You have never been more wrong. You know it, I know it, everyone else around here knows it too.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> Wrong again. You have never been more wrong. You know it, I know it, everyone else around here knows it too.



.....what?


----------



## M2Beezy

What times his game today?


----------



## Breakers

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> He looked like this in the Hockeyallsvenskan last year as well, then looked *atrocious* in the WJHC. Want to see him dominate kids the way he should, Orr rather be that leading force, on smaller ice, before I get too excited




Atrocious would describe Jake Virtanen or Frederick Gauthier at the WJC.

He was decent at that tournament for a predraft player.


----------



## LickTheEnvelope

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> What times his game today?




Game just ended. Vaxjo won 3-0 but Pettersson didn't have any points. Had a penalty and about 6 shots.


----------



## DDRhockey

How isnt jas 39 gripen banned yet


----------



## EK47

LickTheEnvelope said:


> Game just ended. Vaxjo won 3-0 but Pettersson didn't have any points. Had a penalty and about 6 shots.



That penalty was a result of Morgan Johansson yet again being what he is.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

LickTheEnvelope said:


> Game just ended. Vaxjo won 3-0 but Pettersson didn't have any points. Had a penalty and about 6 shots.



B U S T
U
S
T


----------



## Hale The Villain

DDRhockey said:


> How isnt jas 39 gripen banned yet




Ban the heretic! No room for unbelievers in this thread.


----------



## CanaFan

DDRhockey said:


> How isnt jas 39 gripen banned yet




What exactly should he/she be banned for?


----------



## EK47

DDRhockey said:


> How isnt jas 39 gripen banned yet




So, ban people that don't agree with you and sometimes might say things that are slightly offensive? Well let's ban like half of Hfboards that is a great idea.


----------



## DDRhockey

EK47 said:


> So, ban people that don't agree with you and sometimes might say things that are slightly offensive? Well let's ban like half of Hfboards that is a great idea.



The guy is a loose cannon.


----------



## EK47

DDRhockey said:


> The guy is a loose cannon.



Oh my god! We should skip banning and just call the cops on him now!


----------



## D0ctorCool

It's so damn hard to sift through this thread for meaningful talk. I feel like a pioneer during the gold rush era except my gold nugget is more dirt.


----------



## EK47

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Yeah, it comes to no surprise to me that you feel offended by my comment and fail to grasp it, but the fact is that the SHL is pretty soft and gives players to much time to think and space to make plays etc. Elias looked awful playing on smaller ice this summer and last christmas[/



He's dominated the SHL in the same matter this season as he did Allsvenskan last season, and you definetely do not get as much time and space with the puck in the SHL as you do in Allsvenskan. I don't think he would've been able to do this last season in the SHL, so I'd say he has improved in that area.


----------



## SenzZen

EK47 said:


> The clip you're posting was from the one game where he was truly good. Overall though he DID have a bad WJC, and I am a huge Pettersson fan.
> 
> I'm calling a field day for Pettersson against rögle in Växjö tomorrow I need to buy a cap in anticipation of a hattrick in the team store before the game so atleast there's one hat on the ice if it happens.




You jinxed it!!!


----------



## Dominance

DDRhockey said:


> The guy is a loose cannon.



Good heavens, no!


----------



## EK47

SenzZen said:


> You jinxed it!!!




Yeah, I actually bought a cap in anticipation aswell. Oh well.


----------



## SenzZen

EK47 said:


> Yeah, I actually bought a cap in anticipation aswell. Oh well.




I was just kidding- but good on you for following through with the purchase!


----------



## NuxFan09

I want opinions of our fellow Swedish fans who watch these games, who know their players and have a pretty good idea of who will go on to be a good NHL'er and who won't.

So, to all the Swedes here, what are your thoughts on Pettersson?


----------



## EK47

SenzZen said:


> I was just kidding- but good on you for following through with the purchase!



Wonder what the chances are that he scores another hatty this season on home ice?


----------



## EK47

NuxFan09 said:


> I want opinions of our fellow Swedish fans who watch these games, who know their players and have a pretty good idea of who will go on to be a good NHL'er and who won't.
> 
> So, to all the Swedes here, what are your thoughts on Pettersson?



Right now He has two real defecits; His speed and his strength. If he can improve in these two areas I think he will be a good NHL'er.


----------



## Szechwan

Another day, another goal for EP- a GWG. This one is in that weird Champions league however, so doesn't really factor into his SHL scoring line. He currently has 6pts in 7gp there.


----------



## maaran

Not even ppg in Champions league? _Bust_


----------



## Phil McKraken

For those who are wondering, the Champions League is kind of like a pre-season that's interspersed with the regular season; nothing to put much stock in.


----------



## Willy Stylez




----------



## TheFinnishTrap

CHL is a pretty competitive league during the later rounds, when you have the top teams from Sweden/Finland and some other countries left. At the beginning it is all over the place, as there can be some really bad teams there. Don't know how much stock it has compared to SHL, though, teams might not be using their best lineup and giving full effort to avoid injuries.


----------



## Luddowich

Nifty Willy said:


>




Big props to you for making all of these, appreciate them tons


----------



## CherryToke

He sure gets a lot on that shot for a feather weight. He must have some kind of wiry strength.


----------



## Love

Draft +1:

Nylander: 21gp 8g 12a 20pts
Pettersson: 17gp 8g 12a 20pts


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

2 goals in the 3rd to tied the game up
Just unreal
With that I think he beat Nylander's record with 3 less games


----------



## Zombotron

^ Not beaten - tied. With the exact same scoreline: 8 goals, 12 assists.


----------



## DDRhockey

Zombotron said:


> Not beaten - tied. With the exact same scoreline: 8 goals, 12 assists.



Nylander at 20p = 0.95
Pettersson at 20p = 1.17


----------



## Zombotron

DDRhockey said:


> Nylander at 20p = 0.95
> Pettersson at 20p = 1.17



He matched the production in four less games, but hasn't beaten it yet. Semantics


----------



## mouz135

What a gamer. Canucks finally have a beauty on their hands. Exciting times.


----------



## Wallet Inspector

So is Pettersson playing as a center or winger in the SHL?


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

mouz135 said:


> What a gamer. Canucks finally have a beauty on their hands. Exciting times.



Bo and Brock are both beauties in the NHL now
Elias might be on another level though


----------



## rickardr

Wallet Inspector said:


> So is Pettersson playing as a center or winger in the SHL?




Winger


----------



## Szechwan

rickardr said:


> Winger



Plays C at certain times though, depending on the situation. He played OT at C today. Definitely primarily on the wing thus far though.


----------



## GetFocht

There's our #1 C.

20 points in 17 games as a rookie in the SHL is godly numbers.


----------



## Luddowich

BKVCMU said:


> 2 goals in the 3rd to tied the game up
> Just unreal
> With that I think he beat Nylander's record with 3 less games



NVM i misread


----------



## dellzor

Wallet Inspector said:


> So is Pettersson playing as a center or winger in the SHL?



Think he's being played as LW


----------



## Healthy DiPietro

I'm way more impressed with Pettersson than I was with Nylander. Granted, Nylander played on a crap team while Pettersson plays for the best team in the league.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

But how much does he weigh?


----------



## Szechwan

I'm not going to compare him to Nylander, because I think that while comparisons can be useful, people put far too much weight on them.

That said, one of the knocks on EP's production level in this thread has been that he's on a really good team, so he's expected to put up more points than other comparable prospects. It's a sentiment that seems to throw the baby out with the bathwater however- games like the one today show that he's one of the main reasons (this season) _why_ Vaxjo is so good. They're were about to lose 3-1 until he took over in the 3rd period, scored a goal, then tied it up with 33 seconds left. 

He has 20pts in 17 games, while the next highest on his team is Joel Persson 13pts in 17gp.

Meanwhile he's 4th in SHL scoring, 3pts back of league leader Joakim Lindstrom but with a game in hand.

Unbelievable for a D+1.
Nucks look like they've found a real gem here.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Szechwan said:


> I'm not going to compare him to Nylander, because I think that while comparisons can be useful, people put far too much weight on them.






Szechwan said:


> people put far too much weight on them.





Szechwan said:


> *too much weight*




Not a very nice pun


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Love said:


> Draft +1:
> 
> Nylander: 21gp 8g 12a 20pts
> Pettersson: 17gp 8g 12a 20pts




They are different players, but I think Pettersson is slightly better. Nylander is a better skater, Pettersson is smarter and better defensively, more likely to stick at center.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

PorscheDesign said:


> 20 points in 17 games as a rookie in the SHL is godly numbers.



Not disagreeing, but that's ironic since you have stated that the "KHL is a joke".


----------



## GetFocht

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> Not disagreeing, but that's ironic since you have stated that the "KHL is a joke".





There is a lot more metrics of successful players that translate to the NHL from the Swedish league than the KHL.


----------



## Fantomas

Oh, I see. So 'KHL is a joke' was an empirical statement.

"Metrics," folks.


----------



## Canucks LB

Kind of ridiculous what he is doing as a kid

Really makes you wonder what kind of ceiling he really has, I hope he doesn't suddenly put on 30 pounds and is slow like a slug


----------



## Luddowich

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> Not disagreeing, but that's ironic since you have stated that the "KHL is a joke".



If Pettersson played in the KHL and Tolvanen in the SHL he would be saying the same thing you were saying. Welcome to HFB.
Further, what he's doing is amazing but he's still not more impressive than what Nylander was. Really it's funny how some people take that as hate towards Pettersson. But Nylander made an Allsvenskan team look like a SHL playoff team.


----------



## GetFocht

Luddowich said:


> If Pettersson played in the KHL and Tolvanen in the SHL he would be saying the same thing you were saying. Welcome to HFB.
> Further, what he's doing is amazing but he's still not more impressive than what Nylander was. Really it's funny how some people take that as hate towards Pettersson. But Nylander made an Allsvenskan team look like a SHL playoff team.




Right, it's quite clear since day one you had your trailer hitched to Nylander so you will always provide a biased opinion towards him.


----------



## Luddowich

PorscheDesign said:


> Right, it's quite clear since day one you had your trailer hitched to Nylander so you will always provide a biased opinion towards him.



Right, check my post history and you'll see that i was one of the few people at beginning of the year who thought that Pettersson was going to make noice and be a top 10 pick at the end of the year. I've actually keeped track of him, played against him and known about him for a very long time compared to someone who just started following him after his NHL team drafted him, LOL.
But yep, just because i don't over exaggerate when it comes to Pettersson and i give my fair view about him compared to Pettersson i'm just biased towards Nylander lol.
Maybe, just maybe it's because Nylander was a better prospect than what Pettersson was. And maybe, just maybe that has nothing to do with Pettersson, it just illustrates what Nylander did. He was the leading scorer when he left (IIRC) and his team was in a playoff spot. After he left, his team was qualifying to even stay up in the SHL only to get sent down to Allsvenskan the year after.


----------



## Szechwan

Can you guys not drag your KHL/SHL arguments into every f***ing thread??


----------



## GetFocht

Szechwan said:


> Can you guys not drag your KHL/SHL arguments into every ****ing thread??




it comes with the territory when you have an upper echelon prospect. Now lots of fans are taking notice and will likely argue or downplay his success.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

PorscheDesign said:


> it comes with the territory when you have an upper echelon prospect. Now lots of fans are taking notice and will likely argue or downplay his success.



Something something too skinny something something big ice something something easy minutes something something good team something something... grumble grumble.
It all just means they're really upset that Pettersson isn't on their team. Sad!


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

PorscheDesign said:


> Now lots of fans are taking notice and will likely argue or downplay his success.



You literally did that yourself in Tolvanen's thread by basically saying that he produces 'cos he plays in a bad league (which was ridiculous). I don't see anyone here downplaying Pettersson though. From my part we can leave it at this. He is hell of a prospect and I would take him over Patrick and Makar.


----------



## stampedingviking

Luddowich said:


> If Pettersson played in the KHL and Tolvanen in the SHL he would be saying the same thing you were saying. Welcome to HFB.
> Further, what he's doing is amazing but he's still not more impressive than what Nylander was. Really it's funny how some people take that as hate towards Pettersson. But Nylander made an Allsvenskan team look like a SHL playoff team.



Not biased at all, not in any way, shape or form, no sir!


----------



## ijuka

Luddowich said:


> But yep, just because i don't over exaggerate when it comes to Pettersson and i give my fair view about him compared to Pettersson i'm just biased towards Nylander lol.
> Maybe, just maybe it's because Nylander was a better prospect than what Pettersson was. And maybe, just maybe that has nothing to do with Pettersson, it just illustrates what Nylander did. He was the leading scorer when he left (IIRC) and his team was in a playoff spot. After he left, his team was qualifying to even stay up in the SHL only to get sent down to Allsvenskan the year after.



It is a pretty absurd statement. You're the one who's been very pro-Pettersson from the beginning. Nylander's season just was really impressive for the reasons you stated. Vaxjö Lakers has been a contender / champion in the recent years and would likely be one with or without Pettersson(Though obviously not to the same extent). MODO was awful through and through. #2 guy there didn't even have 0.5 PPG and as you said, they no longer are even in SHL.


----------



## CherryToke

I think it's natural to downplay other teams top prospects, I know I do most of the time. In most cases, it is probably just fear of teams you hate getting elite players.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Tryampled said:


> I think it's natural to downplay other teams top prospects, I know I do most of the time. In most cases, it is probably just fear of teams you hate getting elite players.



they hate us cuz they aint us

Haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate


----------



## Breakers

He has 17 points in his last 11 games.

He's been involved in 38% of his team's goals.

But apparently he isn't a big part of his team's success
The logic in this thread


----------



## GetFocht

Breakers said:


> He has 17 points in his last 11 games.
> 
> He's been involved in 38% of his team's goals.
> 
> But apparently he isn't a big part of his team's success
> The logic in this thread




TIL that Pettersson is indeed the reason why his team is successful this season.


----------



## elitepete

Pettersson is the main reason for how good his team is right now. Their best player by far. Without him, they would still be a good tram but not even close to how good they are right now.


----------



## ponder

He looked like a great prospect even before the season started, and it’s been a phenomenal draft+1 year for him so far. IMO he’s the best prospect the Nucks have had in ages, if he pans out well he has the potential to be a very good 1C.


----------



## Red

ijuka said:


> It is a pretty absurd statement. You're the one who's been very pro-Pettersson from the beginning. Nylander's season just was really impressive for the reasons you stated. Vaxjö Lakers has been a contender / champion in the recent years and would likely be one with or without Pettersson(Though obviously not to the same extent). MODO was awful through and through. #2 guy there didn't even have 0.5 PPG and as you said, they no longer are even in SHL.




Your argument for Nylander being sooo much better than Pettersson is Pettersson is on a better team. But your evidence for being on a better team is the difference between them and the 2nd place scorer. I mean. Have you even done the numbers?

You make a bunch of arguments but it's like you don't think them through. So damn sad.

Pettersson (1st on his team): 1.18 ppg
2nd on his team: 0.76 ppg
_Difference: 0.42 ppg_

Nylander: 0.95 ppg
2nd on his team: 0.49 ppg
_Difference: 0.46 ppg
_
I mean. Get a grip.


----------



## Kaako Kappo

Looking like a steal. Such a weird draft.


----------



## Luddowich

Red said:


> Your argument for Nylander being sooo much better than Pettersson is Pettersson is on a better team. But your evidence for being on a better team is the difference between them and the 2nd place scorer. I mean. Have you even done the numbers?
> 
> You make a bunch of arguments but it's like you don't think them through. So damn sad.
> 
> Pettersson (1st on his team): 1.18 ppg
> 2nd on his team: 0.76 ppg
> _Difference: 0.42 ppg_
> 
> Nylander: 0.95 ppg
> 2nd on his team: 0.49 ppg
> _Difference: 0.46 ppg
> _
> I mean. Get a grip.



Nylanders team went to the relegation rounds after he left and were in a playoff spot when he was there. The team got relegated the year after.
Pettersson's team is a playoff team without EP and is going to be a playoff team when he leaves aswell.

I mean, Donald Brashear was on that Modo team. That was how bad it was, Nylander had a McDavid level impact on Modo.

Växjö is a powerhouse in the SHL.


Breakers said:


> He has 17 points in his last 11 games.
> 
> He's been involved in 38% of his team's goals.
> 
> But apparently he isn't a big part of his team's success
> The logic in this thread



So just because i don't think Pettersson's D+1 season was better than Nylanders D+1 season it's some kind of attack on Pettersson?
Where did i say that he's not a big part of Växjös success? All im saying is that what Nylander did was more impressive since people keep bringing it up comparing the 2 seasons. You guys are acting like Växjö is some dumpster team like Modo was. It's not like Pettersson has a former SHL scoring champion on his team, oh wait. He does.
It's not like his team where the SHL champions just 2 seasons ago.

So to summarize since i feel like i have to:
Pettersson has been lights out and a big part of his teams success.
He was not more impressive than Nylander in his last season in the SHL, but Pettersson has been absolutely incredible nonetheless. Its not critism against Pettersson, Nylander was just so dominant.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Luddowich said:


> Nylanders team went to the relegation rounds after he left and were in a playoff spot when he was there. The team got relegated the year after.
> Pettersson's team is a playoff team without EP and is going to be a playoff team when he leaves aswell.
> 
> I mean, Donald Brashear was on that Modo team. That was how bad it was, Nylander had a McDavid level impact on Modo.
> 
> Växjö is a powerhouse in the SHL.
> 
> So just because i don't think Pettersson's D+1 season was better than Nylanders D+1 season it's some kind of attack on Pettersson?
> Where did i say that he's not a big part of Växjös success? All im saying is that what Nylander did was more impressive since people keep bringing it up comparing the 2 seasons. You guys are acting like Växjö is some dumpster team like Modo was. It's not like Pettersson has a former SHL scoring champion on his team, oh wait. He does.
> It's not like his team where the SHL champions just 2 seasons ago.
> 
> So to summarize since i feel like i have to:
> Pettersson has been lights out and a big part of his teams success.
> He was not more impressive than Nylander in his last season in the SHL, but Pettersson has been absolutely incredible nonetheless. Its not critism against Pettersson, Nylander was just so dominant.



This is not a thread where you can use logic or try to reason with someone (especially the poster with the players name). 

Yes, fans of Elias Pettersson, hes been really good this season in the SHL. Its not better than Nylanders last season (play-wise), but its been really good. He hasnt showed us (me and many others) that he can translate his play style to smaller ice, yet. He needs to get used to play quicker since he wont get that as much room and time on smaller ice. He needs to add muscle to withstand the tougher play that exists in the NHL. You have a great prospect on your hands, but you should also be aware that he needs to do some work. This is just not me throwing out my own thoughts, this is the general thoughts shared by a lot of people that watches Elias play.


----------



## CloutierForVezina

Ah, the classic "Crosby/Ovechkin doesn't deserve the Hart because they're a playoff team without him" argument.

I've missed the annual debate on who the best player on a terrible team is, and why they're significantly better than good players on good teams.


----------



## FroshaugFan2

Luddowich said:


> Nylanders team went to the relegation rounds after he left and were in a playoff spot when he was there. The team got relegated the year after.
> Pettersson's team is a playoff team without EP and is going to be a playoff team when he leaves aswell.
> 
> I mean, Donald Brashear was on that Modo team. That was how bad it was, Nylander had a McDavid level impact on Modo.
> 
> Växjö is a powerhouse in the SHL.
> 
> So just because i don't think Pettersson's D+1 season was better than Nylanders D+1 season it's some kind of attack on Pettersson?
> Where did i say that he's not a big part of Växjös success? All im saying is that what Nylander did was more impressive since people keep bringing it up comparing the 2 seasons. You guys are acting like Växjö is some dumpster team like Modo was. It's not like Pettersson has a former SHL scoring champion on his team, oh wait. He does.
> It's not like his team where the SHL champions just 2 seasons ago.
> 
> So to summarize since i feel like i have to:
> Pettersson has been lights out and a big part of his teams success.
> He was not more impressive than Nylander in his last season in the SHL, but Pettersson has been absolutely incredible nonetheless. Its not critism against Pettersson, Nylander was just so dominant.




Who cares how good Robert Rosen was in 2011-12? How does that have anything to do with what Pettersson is doing now? Rosen is 41st in SHL scoring this season. Pettersson is 4th. That's what is relevant today. 

By the way Modo had a SHL scoring champ as well.

Who cares that they won the SHL championship three* years ago? They have like six players left from that team. Växjö is a vastly different team from the one that won in 2014-15. Today Växjö is not a high scoring team without Pettersson. What they were three seasons ago is irrelevant.


----------



## inthewings

The argument that Pettersson is an inferior prospect to Nylander because his team is better is silly.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

inthewings said:


> The argument that Pettersson is an inferior prospect to Nylander because his team is better is silly.



It's very reasonable argument... why are some in this thread so defensive about it? The guys who say this are ones who watched Nylander and are now watching Pettersson. On the other side are Nucks' fans basing their argument on numbers and highlights. Take Olli Palola for example: he put up the best numbers in his career last season in Växjö and SHL is better than the FEL.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Red said:


> Your argument for Nylander being sooo much better than Pettersson is Pettersson is on a better team. But your evidence for being on a better team is the difference between them and the 2nd place scorer. I mean. Have you even done the numbers?
> 
> You make a bunch of arguments but it's like you don't think them through. So damn sad.
> 
> Pettersson (1st on his team): 1.18 ppg
> 2nd on his team: 0.76 ppg
> _Difference: 0.42 ppg_
> 
> Nylander: 0.95 ppg
> 2nd on his team: 0.49 ppg
> _Difference: 0.46 ppg
> _
> I mean. Get a grip.




Bo Horvat is much better than Malkin because Malkin plays on a good team that would be good regardless with or without him.
Meanwhile, Bo Horvat is literally the player making sure the Canucks arent #31st in the NHL.

^^^ That logic is correct, right?

SOUNDS RIGHT TO ME!

LOL WUT U GOTTA SAY NOW HATERS?


----------



## 4thline

The thirst to believe/ convince others that Petterson is the best of himself/Nylander/Backstrom/Forsberg/Lindholm was inevitable, I predicted it well before the draft.

He's definitely closed the gap a fair bit though being well behind at U17, U18, U19.


----------



## DDRhockey

Luddowich said:


> Nylanders team went to the relegation rounds after he left and were in a playoff spot when he was there. The team got relegated the year after.
> Pettersson's team is a playoff team without EP and is going to be a playoff team when he leaves aswell.
> 
> I mean, Donald Brashear was on that Modo team. That was how bad it was, Nylander had a McDavid level impact on Modo.
> 
> Växjö is a powerhouse in the SHL.
> 
> So just because i don't think Pettersson's D+1 season was better than Nylanders D+1 season it's some kind of attack on Pettersson?
> Where did i say that he's not a big part of Växjös success? All im saying is that what Nylander did was more impressive since people keep bringing it up comparing the 2 seasons. You guys are acting like Växjö is some dumpster team like Modo was. It's not like Pettersson has a former SHL scoring champion on his team, oh wait. He does.
> It's not like his team where the SHL champions just 2 seasons ago.
> 
> So to summarize since i feel like i have to:
> Pettersson has been lights out and a big part of his teams success.
> He was not more impressive than Nylander in his last season in the SHL, but Pettersson has been absolutely incredible nonetheless. Its not critism against Pettersson, Nylander was just so dominant.




Modo went to regulation because they got a new coach and nylander struggled under him. He bolted to AHL or his shl pace would probably be really bad


----------



## Love

Do you guys think Joel Persson will get a contract offer from an NHL club after this season? 23 year old defenceman who’s an SHL rookie and second on Vaxjo with 13pts in 17 games.


----------



## VictorLustig

I think Pettersson is a better prospect than Nylander was at the same age. I like his IQ more and his chances of playing center at the NHL level.


----------



## deckercky

There is very little basis for the argument that players on good teams have an easier time scoring more points than players on bad teams.


----------



## TeddyBare

How many players from Vaxjo are in the top 20 in scoring?????

Just 1, and it's Pettersson, so clearly he is a MAJOR part of his teams success.

But comparing players from different seasons from different teams who play different styles of games about who "dominated more", it just doesn't work.


----------



## DDRhockey

VictorLustig said:


> I think Pettersson is a better prospect than Nylander was at the same age. I like his IQ more and his chances of playing center at the NHL level.



Petterssons IQ is definitely higher


----------



## inthewings

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> It's very reasonable argument... why are some in this thread so defensive about it? The guys who say this are ones who watched Nylander and are now watching Pettersson. On the other side are Nucks' fans basing their argument on numbers and highlights. Take Olli Palola for example: he put up the best numbers in his career last season in Växjö and SHL is better than the FEL.




I don't think it's a reasonable argument. Players should be evaluated independently of the quality of the team. Nylander might well have been a better prospect than Pettersson is now, but appealing to team quality to make that argument is not convincing to me.


----------



## topched88

Im not saying Petterson's season has been more impressive than Nylander's thus far, because to be honest I didn't catch that many of Nylander's games at MODO so I would be talking out my ass. However, I dont like the petterson plays on a better team argument....

Being on a "dominant" team isn't always the best thing for an 18 year old, typically just getting ice time and opportunity in those situations is really tough. However we know that Elias has had plenty of opportunity (which says something in itself). The next highest scorer on his team has 13 points in 17 games. Petterson out producing everyone on the team by a significant margin, and is no doubt a big impact on why the team is so good, and to say they would keep clipping along at the same rate without him is unlikely.

However, if people who have watched them both at these times are saying " the eye test says Nylander was more dominant" -- well fair enough. Chances are you know better than I would, Nylander is a great player and to grab a player of his level out of the Petterson pick would be awesome.


----------



## Bankerguy

Pettersson hasn't really grown into his "man's body" yet. He's 165lb? 170lb? , yet he's dominating a men's league and leading his team in scoring....he's doing it with the physical frame of a tall, lanky teenager. 

In a year or two.. once he physically matures, (6'2" & 180 - 185lb) he'll be even more effective as he'll be stronger on the puck and faster. I think he really has top 15 scoring potential in the NHL. 

If the Canucks keep sliding and draft in the top 5, they'll be able to grab a winger with first line potential that would slide in very nicely next to Pettersson and Boeser *cough-Svechnikov-cough*


----------



## M2Beezy

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> It's very reasonable argument... why are some in this thread so defensive about it? The guys who say this are ones who watched Nylander and are now watching Pettersson. On the other side are Nucks' fans basing their argument on numbers and highlights. Take Olli Palola for example: he put up the best numbers in his career last season in Växjö and SHL is better than the FEL.




Please dont group us all like that . I personally take Pettersson over Nylander but its fine if someone disagrees. Theres clearly a good argument for both and until both have had a few years in the nhl all we can do is speculate so its too bad some canucks fans are getting so upset about it when at this point now its just like an opinion or whatever


----------



## DieTomi

I'm a leafs fan so I'm biased towards Nylander but I still thinks it's very impressive what Pettersson is doing in the SHL. Willie played almost 20 min for MODO every night and Elias is putting up better numbers playing around 15 and a half. There's something to be said about that production. Nylander is also a much better winger than center but the way Pettersson plays will probably allow him to stick at C in the NHL. His puck distribution and decision making is very quick and accurate and he has strong play in his own zone as well. His strength is the only thing stopping him really. Nylander never had the defensive chops to play C but he's been improving lately. Still I think he's better suited on the wing for his career, especially if he's strapped to Matthews side.


----------



## member 105785

Do we know Nylander v Pettersson points per minute of play yet?


----------



## groov2

Am I the only one amused by this pis**ng contest? Who cares? Nylander was great in the SHL. I wanted him in the draft and our management chose otherwise. The Leafs got a good player. This draft, it looks like we got a good player. Cheers to us all, really.


----------



## Luddowich

FroshaugFan2 said:


> Who cares how good Robert Rosen was in 2011-12? How does that have anything to do with what Pettersson is doing now? Rosen is 41st in SHL scoring this season. Pettersson is 4th. That's what is relevant today.



Thats not even the point. The argument is about who appanrently carried their team "the most". And FYI Robert Rosen is still a star in the SHL.



DDRhockey said:


> Modo went to regulation because they got a new coach and nylander struggled under him. He bolted to AHL or his shl pace would probably be really bad



What? When Nylander bolted to the NA they were in a playoff spot and he was the leading scorer (at least top 3). When he left the team literally went titanic and hit rock bottom. It was really no coincidence.

And the fact that there's actual people in this thread that thinks EP has the same impact and Växjö would hit rock bottom without him is just absolutely amusing.


----------



## groov2

Luddowich said:


> Thats not even the point. The argument is about who appanrently carried their team "the most". And FYI Robert Rosen is still a star in the SHL.




That is the newest part of the comparative argument, yes. So it is all fantasy speculation, I guess. We won't know a thing until Pettersson plays in the NHL.


----------



## cc

Impact to team and talent level are two different things. Plenty of players have been the best players of their respective teams to only fail to produce on a different but better team.
Playing on a poor team means more ice time and generally more opportunity to produce. if a player is the best player on the team, he is still going to be targeted by the other team in terms of defensive assignments

Just because Gretzky and Lemieux produced on talented teams, it doesn't diminish their accomplishments one bit.

It's ok to have the opinion that Nylander is better but the argument about poor vs good teams is weak


----------



## Pyromaniac

DieTomi said:


> *I'm a leafs fan* so I'm biased towards Nylander but I still thinks it's very impressive what Pettersson is doing in the SHL. Willie played almost 20 min for MODO every night and Elias is putting up better numbers playing around 15 and a half. There's something to be said about that production. Nylander is also a much better winger than center but the way Pettersson plays will probably allow him to stick at C in the NHL. His puck distribution and decision making is very quick and accurate and he has strong play in his own zone as well. His strength is the only thing stopping him really. Nylander never had the defensive chops to play C but he's been improving lately. Still I think he's better suited on the wing for his career, especially if he's strapped to Matthews side.



No you aren't. Its obvious that you are a Canucks fan, can you stop masquerading and just support your team?


----------



## Luddowich

groov2 said:


> That is the newest part of the comparative argument, yes. So it is all fantasy speculation, I guess. We won't know a thing until Pettersson plays in the NHL.



Well, my posts were always about comparing their D+1 season and it had absolutely nothing to do with who has the most potential or who will be the better player in the NHL. And about who had the more impressive D+1 season between the two, it's Nylander. Hence why the arguments i brought up earlier mattered. I sure hope i clarified that for every one before the next wave of upset Canucks fans come running in.


----------



## Phil McKraken

I don't think NHL physicality will bother him that much to be honest. Nowadays there's tons of light/undersized guys not only holding their own, but excelling in the league. Unlike most of those guys however he's not that fast, so that might become an issue if it doesn't improve.


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

Can the Nylander vs Petterson arguemebt die pls?
I mean those two are 3 years different I term of development


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

MrJonas said:


> I don't think NHL physicality will bother him that much to be honest. Nowadays there's tons of light/undersized guys not only holding their own, but excelling in the league. Unlike most of those guys however he's not that fast, so that might become an issue if it doesn't improve.



Did you not watch last years WJC or this summers camp in Plymouth? The physicality and lack of space bothered him quite a bit, and that was against kids, not NHLers.


----------



## Orca Smash

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Did you not watch last years WJC or this summers camp in Plymouth? The physicality and lack of space bothered him quite a bit, and that was against kids, not NHLers.





Lack of space for sure that is going to be an adjustment period which could be a bit lengthy, didnt see where the physicality bothered him though.

I know your not the biggest fan of his or viewed his potential as high as others have and we went back and forth even before he was drafted, but regardless of any adjustment period, what he is doing currently in the shl bodes very well for him in his development. People rarely put up his numbers at his age in that league and struggle to become good nhl players. I would hedge my bets on him adapting.


----------



## fredligh

He was good last years WJC, created a LOT of chances and was drawing a lot of penalties, but if you were stat watching yes he was struggling


----------



## DDRhockey

Luddowich said:


> Thats not even the point. The argument is about who appanrently carried their team "the most". And FYI Robert Rosen is still a star in the SHL.
> 
> 
> What? When Nylander bolted to the NA they were in a playoff spot and he was the leading scorer (at least top 3). When he left the team literally went titanic and hit rock bottom. It was really no coincidence.
> 
> And the fact that there's actual people in this thread that thinks EP has the same impact and Växjö would hit rock bottom without him is just absolutely amusing.



Robert rosen is an over the hill mediocre player.


----------



## hallonskal

Luddowich said:


> Thats not even the point. The argument is about who appanrently carried their team "the most". And FYI Robert Rosen is still a star in the SHL.
> 
> 
> What? When Nylander bolted to the NA they were in a playoff spot and he was the leading scorer (at least top 3). When he left the team literally went titanic and hit rock bottom. It was really no coincidence.
> 
> And the fact that there's actual people in this thread that thinks EP has the same impact and Växjö would hit rock bottom without him is just absolutely amusing.




Modo was not in a playoff spot when Nylander left them. He left Modo for Toronto in the beggining of 2015, at the time Modo was *dead last in SHL with 37 points in 38 games*. They were 8 points behind the 11th placed team (second last team) and 16 points behind the team that had the last playoff spot. He did not carry Modo on his shoulders, he simply scored a lot of points on a terrible team, but he did not help Modo to be close to even avoid relegation, since they had 11 points up to Brynäs on the 10th spot when he left. 

Modo was worse when Nylander left, no doubt about it, but they were still the worst team in the league by far with him in the line-up.


----------



## DDRhockey

Ferros said:


> Modo was not in a playoff spot when Nylander left them. He left Modo for Toronto in the beggining of 2015, at the time Modo was *dead last in SHL with 37 points in 38 games*. They were 8 points behind the 11th placed team (second last team) and 16 points behind the team that had the last playoff spot. He did not carry Modo on his shoulders, he simply scored a lot of points on a terrible team, but he did not help Modo to be close to even avoid relegation, since they had 11 points up to Brynäs on the 10th spot when he left.
> 
> Modo was worse when Nylander left, no doubt about it, but they were still the worst team in the league by far with him in the line-up.



Lol nice lie from luddowich


----------



## Luddowich

DDRhockey said:


> Robert rosen is an over the hill mediocre player.



Sure he is, just taking the median of the players in the SHL, the mediocre player scorer scores about 9 pts a year.
Last 2 seasons, he's scored at a rate that would average him out for 15th best in the league last year (35.38 points over 52 games.) 
If you go further back his PPG just gets stronger, but he's an "average player". LOL


----------



## DDRhockey

Luddowich said:


> Sure he is, just taking the median of the players in the SHL, the mediocre player scorer scores about 9 pts a year.
> Last 2 seasons, he's scored at a rate that would average him out for 15th best in the league last year (35.38 points over 52 games.)
> If you go further back his PPG just gets stronger, but he's an "average player". LOL



So how about modo being in a playoff spot when nylander left?


----------



## Luddowich

Ferros said:


> Modo was not in a playoff spot when Nylander left them. He left Modo for Toronto in the beggining of 2015, at the time Modo was *dead last in SHL with 37 points in 38 games*. They were 8 points behind the 11th placed team (second last team) and 16 points behind the team that had the last playoff spot. He did not carry Modo on his shoulders, he simply scored a lot of points on a terrible team, but he did not help Modo to be close to even avoid relegation, since they had 11 points up to Brynäs on the 10th spot when he left.
> 
> Modo was worse when Nylander left, no doubt about it, but they were still the worst team in the league by far with him in the line-up.



Geez, ur right. Really thought Nylander left earlier than i earlier thought. Thanks for the correction.


----------



## elitepete

Pettersson>Nylander


----------



## Luddowich

DDRhockey said:


> So how about modo being in a playoff spot when nylander left?



I mean it really doesnt change anything other than that Nylander success didn't translate as much into team success. 

It's funny though how people kept taking it as some kind of critism. Because Nylander dominated in a way at a young age that we hadn't seen before. That's only positive being compared to a rookie who scored over 60 pts. Oh well.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Oh what?! So this whole argument we've been having about Nylander literally carrying his team is all based on a lie?


----------



## DDRhockey

Elias Pettersson said:


> Oh what?! So this whole argument we've been having about Nylander literally carrying his team is all based on a lie?



Yes his team was dead last. Not nylanders fault though


----------



## DieTomi

DDRhockey said:


> Yes his team was dead last. Not nylanders fault though



I remember watching his games and he would sometimes have to stay out the whole PP cause they had no one else that could put the puck in the net. Was really exciting to watch actually. The rest of the game, not so much.


----------



## CherryToke

Luddowich said:


> That's only positive being compared to a rookie who scored over 60 pts. Oh well.




That is how I see it.


----------



## Phil McKraken

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Did you not watch last years WJC or this summers camp in Plymouth? The physicality and lack of space bothered him quite a bit, and that was against kids, not NHLers.




I've never put much stock in tournaments when judging prospects, it's such a small sample size that someone's performance can be chalked up to any random thing. I remember McDavid looking very tame for several games during his WJC, and some people immediately started questioning his first overall status.


----------



## Grub

3 minutes in the first period and Petterson has scored the first goal and picked up an assist on another.

22 points in 18 now.

If there's any argument that Vaxjo would be this good without him, highly doubtful.


----------



## Prntscrn

Zombotron said:


> ^ Not beaten - tied. With the exact same scoreline: 8 goals, 12 assists.




Took him 1 minute and 20 seconds to take care of business. Similiar slapper as his first one last game. Got an apple two minutes later aswell


----------



## inthewings

So everyone has been arguing for dozens of pages about how much it means that Nylander carried his team to a playoff position, when really Luddowich was lying, and they were actually last place?

So what we have is a player who dominated on a terrible team, and a player who’s dominating on a very good team. Maybe we can all just agree that they both had great seasons that indicate elite talent, and acknowledge that team quality doesn’t matter.


----------



## Zombotron

Glory said:


> Took him 1 minute and 20 seconds to take care of business. Similiar slapper as his first one last game. Got an apple two minutes later aswell



I didn't even get to finish my breakfast before he found the back of the net!


----------



## Knight53

fredligh said:


> He was good last years WJC, created a LOT of chances and was drawing a lot of penalties, but if you were stat watching yes he was struggling




Yea, who on last year's WJC team can make this type of play? He had numerous chances to pick up points.


----------



## BenningHurtsMySoul

Should have gone 2nd overall.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

MrJonas said:


> I've never put much stock in tournaments when judging prospects, it's such a small sample size that someone's performance can be chalked up to any random thing. I remember McDavid looking very tame for several games during his WJC, and some people immediately started questioning his first overall status.



Sure, but what you fail to understand is that I question Elias ability to play his game on small ice. Please read.

Thanks


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Knight53 said:


> Yea, who on last year's WJC team can make this type of play? He had numerous chances to pick up points.




Yes, he had a few plays, but he looked weak, very weak, when he got into contact with others. The same thing could be said about him in the summer tournament


----------



## Knight53

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Yes, he had a few plays, but he looked weak, very weak, when he got into contact with others. The same thing could be said about him in the summer tournament




This past WJSS he played with an injured hip, put up 2 assists in 3 games with a breakaway where he hit the post.

If he looks weak right now and is doing what he is doing that is a very scary thought.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Knight53 said:


> This past WJSS he played with an injured hip, put up 2 assists in 3 games with a breakaway where he hit the post.
> 
> If he looks weak right now and is doing what he is doing that is a very scary thought.



So youre stat-watching when it suits you and not when it dosnt?


----------



## Knight53

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> So youre stat-watching when it suits you and not when it dosnt?




What are you trying to argue here? That he looked weak in a 3 game summer showcase with an injured hip?


----------



## Knight53

Pettersson with an absolutely fantastic defensive play and picks up his 3rd point.

Now is the leading scorer of the SHL with 23 points in 18 games. Still 20 more mins to play.


----------



## Tomas W

Great game by Elias Pettersson against Skellefteå! He got confidence in himself, one can tell from this game. Doesnt look like a junior.


----------



## Knight53




----------



## BenningHurtsMySoul

Future star.


----------



## EK47

I know I said that the eyetest was swaying me in Nylanders favor in terms of what was more impressive. Well It's beginning to change, right now he is far better than Dick Axelsson, Jocke Lindström or Ryno who pundits will say is the best player in the SHL. Completely insane.


----------



## clunk

If he wasn't a Canuck and was a prospect of some lesser cheered for team like the Hurricanes or Coyotes, he would be an Hfboards darling.


----------



## Grub

That's 23 points in 18 games... 3 point (1g 2a) night so far. Have not seen if the 3 people ahead of him in scoring in the SHL are playing but if not this places Petterson tied for first in scoring in the Shl, with the least average Ice time and also being the youngest.


----------



## DeltaSwede

Sheesh.. just a 3 point night so far. 

Too bad he will never put on weight or adjust to an NHL ice surface. He is just not skilled or smart enough to do that. He's never seen a gym or heard of protein either. 

Sucks to be a Canucks fan.


----------



## Willy Stylez

Vancouver got a gem.


----------



## TeddyBare

Big Fan of his

But this isn't sustainable. He's going to hit a cold streak.
I mean his shooting percentage must be something ridiculous.


----------



## Phil McKraken

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Sure, but what you fail to understand is that I question Elias ability to play his game on small ice. Please read.
> 
> Thanks




And you base that on a tiny sample size, which is what I was talking about.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Knight53 said:


>




2nd assist. Bust


----------



## Knucklehead

MrJonas said:


> I've never put much stock in tournaments when judging prospects, it's such a small sample size that someone's performance can be chalked up to any random thing. I remember McDavid looking very tame for several games during his WJC, and some people immediately started questioning his first overall status.




Yeah I watched McDavid very closely in those WJC games and other than a couple of really nice moves he definitely didn't dominate and his point total was average from what I remember but mind you he was underage as well which is really good from that stand point.


----------



## Grub

Quite amazing, top in SHL scoring, the youngest amongst the top scorers with also the fewest ice time.


----------



## 42

I wonder if he'll be ready for the NHL as early as next season. Slight stature seems to be the only thing going against making the NHL right now.


----------



## DDRhockey

1.28 ppg incredible stuff.


----------



## Grub

42 said:


> I wonder if he'll be ready for the NHL as early as next season. Slight stature seems to be the only thing going against making the NHL right now.



To be honest... if he can maintain his scoring pace and be top 5-10 in SHL scoring.. I don't see why not...
If he can be one of the best in the SHL, then the next step is definitely the NHL if not AHL.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Grub said:


> To be honest... if he can maintain his scoring pace and be top 5-10 in SHL scoring.. I don't see why not...
> If he can be one of the best in the SHL, then the next step is definitely the NHL if not AHL.



It probably helped Nylander, and Forsberg to have that intermediate step of the AHL. I think the Canes should have sent Lindholm there longer too. He could be immediately ready like Backstrom, but of recent Swedish forwards using the AHL first seems to have worked out well.


----------



## GetFocht

20 points in his last 12 games.

Do people think 90 point player in the NHL is really that far fetched 

[mod]


----------



## thepuckmonster

He’s pretty okay at ice hockey


----------



## BenningHurtsMySoul

I would put him in the AHL for a season with Dahlen. Let them dominate.

Then bring both up the season after.


----------



## EK47

93LEAFS said:


> It probably helped Nylander, and Forsberg to have that intermediate step of the AHL. I think the Canes should have sent Lindholm there longer too. He could be immediately ready like Backstrom, but of recent Swedish forwards using the AHL first seems to have worked out well.



I think especially in Elias's case the AHL route would be a good option considering he has very limited experience on small ice. Which is also why it's silly to make judgements on how he will adjust to the NHL at this time.


----------



## Knucklehead

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Sure, but what you fail to understand is that I question Elias ability to play his game on small ice. Please read.
> 
> Thanks




This notion that his style of play and current physique which dominates in the third best men's league in the world at the age of 19 but might not translate to a smaller ice service in the NHL in the coming years is crazy. 

This is getting absurd.....talent can play anywhere marginal talent can play....period. Especially for one who has remarkable instincts and the way E[ias processes the game. I would go so far as calling him a prodigy because every right move that he makes comes so easily for him and without hesitation at a very high skill level. There is a reason the coach of Sweden's national team at the one tournament last year with Dahlin on it said without hesitation or qualifying that Petterssen was the most skilled member on the team.

There are a lot of smallish or light player's who are not real fast that do well in the NHL and Petterssen is going to go on to have an excellent career as so many other talented Swede's have done before him.


----------



## Iceman

After tonight's 3 point performance he is up in a shared points lead with 2 others. Pettersson has played 1 less game than the other two.


----------



## VictorLustig

Worst thing you can do is to rush him, he won't turn the Canucks into a playoff team next season. Just let him play and get stronger where he's comfortable, worked out well for Zetterberg, Bäckström, Lidström, Forsberg etc. 

He's got the IQ to handle the transition to the smaller ice. It's just a matter of becoming stronger, and he has long ways to go.


----------



## DDRhockey

VictorLustig said:


> Worst thing you can do is to rush him, he won't turn the Canucks into a playoff team next season. Just let him play and get stronger where he's comfortable, worked out well for Zetterberg, Bäckström, Lidström, Forsberg etc.
> 
> He's got the IQ to handle the transition to the smaller ice. It's just a matter of becoming stronger, and he has long ways to go.



Some players gets worse when they add weight.


----------



## Canucks LB

Kid is absolutely bonkers, hard to think the Canucks drafted a guy this good


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Lucbourdon said:


> Kid is absolutely bonkers, hard to think the Canucks drafted a guy this good



It doesn't feel like real life. 

A few years ago the canucks would have picked the big bodied meat and potatoes boy in Vilardi while we have to sit and watch Pettersson set records as a Rangers prospect while our pick hasn't even played a game.... 
That feels more like reality


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

BoeserOfTwoEvils said:


> Should have gone 2nd overall.




Should've gone first overall.


----------



## VictorLustig

DDRhockey said:


> Some players gets worse when they add weight.




You don't have to gain a ton of weight to get stronger.


----------



## Canucks LB

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Should've gone first overall.



Honestly if you fast forward a year somehow, you would get elias nico tolvy 1-2-3 imo


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Lucbourdon said:


> Honestly if you fast forward a year somehow, you would get elias nico tolvy 1-2-3 imo




Plausible, I still have Liljegren in my top 3. Hischier has impressed, I had him 5th at the draft, but he's done better than I expected. I had it Pettersson 1, Liljegren 2 at the draft, my opinion hasn't changed there. I'd have Hischier 3rd right now.


----------



## DDRhockey

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Plausible, I still have Liljegren in my top 3. Hischier has impressed, I had him 5th at the draft, but he's done better than I expected. I had it Pettersson 1, Liljegren 2 at the draft, my opinion hasn't changed there. I'd have Hischier 3rd right now.



Liljegren, no just stop.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

DDRhockey said:


> Liljegren, no just stop.




You don't like him? I think he's going to be very good. I'm no Leafs fan either.


----------



## Canucks LB

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> You don't like him? I think he's going to be very good. I'm no Leafs fan either.



I don’t think he’s saying that because he doesn’t think he’s going to be good, it’s just how good


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

*After he has a great rookie year in the NHL
"I question if his play can transfer in the playoffs"


----------



## Canucks LB

is there a good chance he plays in the Olympics?


----------



## CpatainCanuck

I guess we'll see soon enough whether or not Pettersson's slight build will handicap him in the NHL. However, he's heavier than Gaudreau and Gretzky's 80s playing weight right now. Point being that some exceptionally skilled players don't need bulk to be extremely effective.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Lucbourdon said:


> is there a good chance he plays in the Olympics?



You would think so since he's literally the best player playing in Sweden right now. He may be the best Swedish player outside of the NHL right now


----------



## Fantomas

CpatainCanuck said:


> I guess we'll see soon enough whether or not Pettersson's *slight build will handicap him in the NHL*. However, he's heavier than Gaudreau and Gretzky's 80s playing weight right now. Point being that some exceptionally skilled players don't need bulk to be extremely effective.




I think the notion that a slight build will work against an extremely talented forward has become an antiquated one. Particularly as it comes to the present-day NHL.

Clearly no one in the hockey industry even believes this. Look at the draft results now.

Maybe things could go wrong, but I don't think this would be it. If the skills are there, if the head is there I think we'll see results.


----------



## cjm502

He is a very intelligent player in all facets of the game, players with this caliber of intelligence generally have a much easier time adapting to higher levels of hockey. Anyone talking down on this guy is simply a hater, jealous, or just plain dumb.


----------



## Canucks LB

cjm502 said:


> He is a very intelligent player in all facets of the game, players with this caliber of intelligence generally have a much easier time adapting to higher levels of hockey. Anyone talking down on this guy is simply a hater, jealous, or just plain dumb.



Preach


----------



## EK47

clunk said:


> If he wasn't a Canuck and was a prospect of some lesser cheered for team like the Hurricanes or Coyotes, he would be an Hfboards darling.



Isn't he already kinda a hfboards darling though? I mean after all this is probably the most active prospect thread.


----------



## member 105785

EK47 said:


> Isn't he already kinda a hfboards darling though? I mean after all this is probably the most active prospect thread.




Doubt it, it's an active prospect thread because it's a Canucks prospect and there's a ton of Canuck fans on here, also people who hate the Canucks.


----------



## EK47

archer cartridge said:


> Doubt it, it's an active prospect thread because it's a Canucks prospect and there's a ton of Canuck fans on here, also people who hate the Canucks.




I may be wrong but I don't really see that much hate tbh. I mean there will always be someone who doesn't like a highly touted prospect, and really all it takes is one person.


----------



## DFAC

Let him season in the AHL next year. Get adapted to the smaller ice rink, play more C and get accustomed to NA life

No need to rush him into the Canucks lineup yet


----------



## JTmillerForA1stLOL

EK47 said:


> I may be wrong but I don't really see that much hate tbh. I mean there will always be someone who doesn't like a highly touted prospect, and really all it takes is one person.





Yeah, I don't see much hate either. I see other people ranking a few players ahead of Pettersson then certain Canucks fans getting pissy that someone doesn't think that Pettersson is the best prospect in the draft. 

Nobody says he's bad.. but not everybody thinks he'll be the best player to come out of this draft, which is fair because we're all just predicting the future in our own ways.


----------



## cc

I don't see the hate either but I have to admit the poor team vs good team argument was pretty lame. 

Right now, he's being given a lot of praise from all sides and rightly so because he's doing something almost unprecedented so far. If he can keep this up, throughout the year he will probably be the most talked about prospect by a fair margin


----------



## DDRhockey

Pettersson greatest prospect i ever seen


----------



## IComeInPeace

As a Canucks fan, and huge Elias fan, our fan base is the over-sensitive girlfriend of hfboards...

‘Honey, do you think I’m getting fat?’ 
‘No. Those jeans look good on you!

‘What do you mean by ‘good’...and why do you say it like that?’

Elias is a great prospect, and far ahead of where even most of his biggest fans thought he’d be at this point in time.

However, in hindsight, this last draft is looking really, really good. No one has to declare Elias the hands down best player in the draft. But, he’s a damn good one at this point.

There has to be a lot of teams that are (at this early stage) really, really happy with the way this past draft is looking so far.

Kole Lind is having a lights out d+1 season so far...and depending on the team, there’s a good chance he doesn’t go that much higher than where the Nucks picked him with their 2nd pick. 

That’s no anti-Canucks conspiracy. There’s just a lot of players playing well at this early point. I’m sure by the end of the season, many players will drop off significantly.


----------



## DudeWhereIsMakar

He makes the Canucks for sure next year, possibly even a Calder finalist.


----------



## BROCK HUGHES

DudeWhereIsMakar said:


> He makes the Canucks for sure next year, possibly even a Calder finalist.



The kid is lights out..but there is no sense in rushing him.Let him work on his upper body and strengh.Will make for a way better player that we are seeing now.Canucks are building a great core of youth.Lind,Demko,Dahlin,Gaudett.ect.
To allready go with Bo and Boeser.Great days comming for the Canucks..


----------



## DDRhockey

MAGICMAN1963 said:


> The kid is lights out..but there is no sense in rushing him.Let him work on his upper body and strengh.Will make for a way better player that we are seeing now.Canucks are building a great core of youth.Lind,Demko,*Dahlin*,Gaudett.ect.
> To allready go with Bo and Boeser.Great days comming for the Canucks..



I know that canucks are tanking but comon lol


----------



## CherryToke

Probably meant Dahlen.


----------



## member 105785

DDRhockey said:


> I know that canucks are tanking but comon lol




He's talking about Canucks prospect Jonathan Dahlen, drafted by Ottawa, acquired in exchange for Alex Burrows.


----------



## stampedingviking

DDRhockey said:


> I know that canucks are tanking but comon lol



Maybe both Dahlen and Dahlin.


----------



## M2Beezy

stampedingviking said:


> Maybe both Dahlen and Dahlin.




Thatll be confusing but worth it of course


----------



## member 105785

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Thatll be confusing but worth it of course



Jeez if only this fanbase had practice with multiple star players of the same name


----------



## WetcoastOrca

archer cartridge said:


> Jeez if only this fanbase had practice with multiple star players of the same name



You mean the Sundin triplets? Mats, Henrik and Daniel.


----------



## member 105785

vanwest said:


> You mean the Sundin triplets? Mats, Henrik and Daniel.




Yeah, Hendrik and Splaniel


----------



## BROCK HUGHES

archer cartridge said:


> He's talking about Canucks prospect Jonathan Dahlen, drafted by Ottawa, acquired in exchange for Alex Burrows.



Thats what i meant lol


----------



## Elias Pettersson

stampedingviking said:


> Maybe both Dahlen and Dahlin.



Unless Dahlin drops to 5th overall, don't get your hopes up.

Man who could have guessed that dropping to 5th last year may have been the best thing in hindsight. We wouldn't have picked Pettersson at 1-3


----------



## member 105785

Elias Pettersson said:


> Unless Dahlin drops to 5th overall, don't get your hopes up.
> 
> Man who could have guessed that dropping to 5th last year may have been the best thing in hindsight. We wouldn't have picked Pettersson at 1-3




I mean Linden said on record that they didn't have either Nico or Nolan at #1


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

Elias Pettersson said:


> Unless Dahlin drops to 5th overall, don't get your hopes up.
> 
> Man who could have guessed that dropping to 5th last year may have been the best thing in hindsight. We wouldn't have picked Pettersson at 1-3




Well to be fair, as great as Pettersson is doing Heiskenen has been putting up some extraordinary numbers as well and it would be close in a redraft.


----------



## Fantomas

DFAC said:


> Let him season in the AHL next year. Get adapted to the smaller ice rink, play more C and get accustomed to NA life




If Pettersson is as special as he seems he won't need to "season in the AHL."


----------



## Grub

People saying WJC is not a measuring stick but... I will expect him to do well this WJC considering he will not be an underager and this is not his first time in the WJC. Had lots of chances last year but this year there is definitely bigger expectations.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

DDRhockey said:


> Pettersson greatest prospect i ever seen



Oh my science....


----------



## Canucks LB

Come on how classic HF would it be if people shit on Elias if he has a average WJC. After playing ridiculous numbers in the actual season.

I can see it now "Who cares if he had a good year, he was trash in the world juniors, his skill won't translate to the nhl"


----------



## DDRhockey

Lucbourdon said:


> Come on how classic HF would it be if people **** on Elias if he has a average WJC. After playing ridiculous numbers in the actual season.
> 
> I can see it now "Who cares if he had a good year, he was trash in the world juniors, his skill won't translate to the nhl"



I remember backstrom was kinda meh in wjc after ridiculous regular season numbers.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

DDRhockey said:


> I remember backstrom was kinda meh in wjc after ridiculous regular season numbers.




Well, you also say that Elias is the best prospect you’ve ever seen, so


----------



## Healthy DiPietro

DDRhockey said:


> I remember backstrom was kinda meh in wjc after ridiculous regular season numbers.




Even McDavid was pretty invisible for most of his WJC. He had 15 points in 14 games, which is really underwhelming considering what he has done before and after, especially when 9 of those points came in blowouts against Germany, Denmark and Slovakia.

Elias feels like a player who will disappoint some people during his first few years, and then he'll just take off around his mid 20s when he has adapted fully to the game. He reminds me a bit of a young Henrik Sedin, not just because of Vancouver. Maybe RNH too, another player who's looking better now after some slow years.


----------



## VictorLustig

Let's not pretend like McDavid wasn't good at the WJC.


----------



## cc

I wouldn't put too much stock in the WJC performance. Such a small sample size and a player could be under the weather at that time. Too many players became overrated or underrated based on that tournament but it's such a high profile tournament that many scouts base their evaluations on it.


----------



## CherryToke

WJC is not a good gauge. Boeser and Horvat were both bad and they seem to be doing just fine in the NHL.

on the flip side you have guys like Hodgson, Schroeder and maybe Puljujärvi.


----------



## DDRhockey

Tryampled said:


> WJC is not a good gauge. Boeser and Horvat were both bad and they seem to be doing just fine in the NHL.
> 
> on the flip side you have guys like Hodgson, Schroeder and maybe Puljujärvi.



Max friberg 10 goals for sweden.


----------



## GetFocht

lol I also remember that Boeser had an extremely weak WJC and posters were saying his skating will never translate to the NHL after that performance.


Now he is sitting pretty at PPG in the NHL.


----------



## M2Beezy

DDRhockey said:


> Max friberg 10 goals for sweden.




Who?


----------



## member 105785

Fantomas said:


> If Pettersson is as special as he seems he won't need to "season in the AHL."




No reason to throw him into the NHL when the Canucks shouldn't be pushing to do well. Let him tear it up and build more confidence in NA.


----------



## Fantomas

archer cartridge said:


> No reason to throw him into the NHL when the Canucks shouldn't be pushing to do well. Let him tear it up and build more confidence in NA.




LOL - no one in the NHL thinks this way.


----------



## Brock Boeser Laser Show

cc said:


> I wouldn't put too much stock in the WJC performance. Such a small sample size and a player could be under the weather at that time. Too many players became overrated or underrated based on that tournament but it's such a high profile tournament that many scouts base their evaluations on it.




Yeah I usually take WJC numbers with a grain of salt. I like to examine a player over the course of a season and not just a short sample size. Horvat and Boeser both had underwhelming performances at the WJC but are now the canucks two best players.


----------



## DDRhockey

Fantomas said:


> LOL - no one in the NHL thinks this way.



Yeah if you can dominate shl, ahl is not neccesary


----------



## Breakers

DDRhockey said:


> Yeah if you can dominate shl, ahl is not neccesary




Nylander played in the AHL


----------



## DDRhockey

Breakers said:


> Nylander played in the AHL



But backstrom, sedins or peter forsberg didnt. Since when is nylander the measure stick for everything?


----------



## EK47

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Who?



Exactly.


----------



## DDRhockey

EK47 said:


> Exactly.



Just agreeing that playing in wjc doesnt mean nhl success. Friberg was a good example of that.


----------



## Cquant

DDRhockey said:


> But backstrom, sedins or peter forsberg didnt. Since when is nylander the measure stick for everything?




Pettersson is still playing the wing being centered by Rosen as far as I've followed. Elias was drafted as a center and should be brought into the NHL as a center. Pulling off what Drouin just did is not easy, you don't just go up to the NHL and play a position you haven't touched in a couple of years. Pettersson is either going to go to the AHL and get used to the NHL game as a center, or he is going to stay in the SHL for one more year as a center. It seems the most logical thing to do. The only other way is in training camp, he'll have time to get used to playing center, and if he can produce and convince the coaches that he can play center in the NHL already then maybe he goes up straight away.

The other concern was that he is still too thin. He may need another year just to mature. I mean it's not like he has gained much weight since his draft. 

But bringing up Backstrom... Does anyone know when he started playing center? Did he play center for Brynas in his D+1 year or did he convert in Washington?


----------



## DDRhockey

Brobidus said:


> Pettersson is still playing the wing being centered by Rosen as far as I've followed. Elias was drafted as a center and should be brought into the NHL as a center. Pulling off what Drouin just did is not easy, you don't just go up to the NHL and play a position you haven't touched in a couple of years. Pettersson is either going to go to the AHL and get used to the NHL game as a center, or he is going to stay in the SHL for one more year as a center. It seems the most logical thing to do. The only other way is in training camp, he'll have time to get used to playing center, and if he can produce and convince the coaches that he can play center in the NHL already then maybe he goes up straight away.
> 
> The other concern was that he is still too thin. He may need another year just to mature. I mean it's not like he has gained much weight since his draft.
> 
> But bringing up Backstrom... Does anyone know when he started playing center? Did he play center for Brynas in his D+1 year or did he convert in Washington?



Backstrom was always center.

Regarding EP. If he is good enough for canucks next preseason no reason to send him to ahl.


----------



## 4thline

DDRhockey said:


> But backstrom, sedins or peter forsberg didnt.




Fair point. 
Backstrom and the Sedins both came over for their U21 Season (Petterson next season) direct to the NHL
P. Forsberg not until midway through his U-22 (I suspect Olympics played a part- he entered the league as a ppg player, was likely ready the year before)

F. Forsberg and W. Nylander spent time in the AHL, but they also came over sooner (N's half way through U19 and to start U20, Forsberg for U20)
E. Lindolm came directly to NHL at U20 but probably would have been well served with AHL time.

Every one of those players regardless of U20 in SHL/AHL/NHL (Except Forsberg-Olympics) was in the NHL at U21 and put up at least ~35 points, Sedin's doing it in deadpuck era


----------



## DDRhockey

4thline said:


> Fair point.
> Backstrom and the Sedins both came over for their U21 Season (Petterson next season) direct to the NHL
> P. Forsberg not until midway through his U-22 (I suspect Olympics played a part- he entered the league as a ppg player, was likely ready the year before)
> 
> F. Forsberg and W. Nylander spent time in the AHL, but they also came over sooner (N's half way through U19 and to start U20, Forsberg for U20)
> E. Lindolm came directly to NHL at U20 but probably would have been well served with AHL time.
> 
> Every one of those players regardless of U20 in SHL/AHL/NHL (Except Forsberg-Olympics) was in the NHL at U21 and put up at least ~35 points, Sedin's doing it in deadpuck era



Markus naslund and mats sundin also came over and spent 0 time in ahl.

So did daniel alfredsson and landeskog


----------



## Breakers

DDRhockey said:


> But backstrom, sedins or peter forsberg didnt. Since when is nylander the measure stick for everything?





Yeah maybe Vancouver should do another jake Virtanen and Jared Mccann and rush him

Genius way of developing.


----------



## nowhereman

Breakers said:


> Yeah maybe Vancouver should do another jake Virtanen and Jared Mccann and rush him
> 
> Genius way of developing.



If a player is ready, they'll play. Whether or not Petterson is ready is really up to Petterson, according to how he develops. They won't push him, if he's not ready (especially after the Virtanen situation), but they also won't hold him back, if he is ready. See one Brock Boeser. Even though many on this site and CDC felt that Boeser should have been held back in the AHL to ensure he was "properly developed", we all know how that turned out.

It's up to the player, really.


----------



## 4thline

DDRhockey said:


> Markus naslund and mats sundin also came over and spent 0 time in ahl.
> 
> So did daniel alfredsson.




While true- I wouldn't really consider those 3 (or Forsberg for that matter) comparable for developmental cohort purposes because of how much things have changed (both on ice and in a managerial sense) since then. Even the Sedins are pushing the limit, I'm not a fan of considering pre-o4 lockout transitions. 

But even Backstrom+Lindholm+F.Forsberg+W. Nylander paint a picture of where Sweden's elite forward talents usually are at U21 in recent years


----------



## DDRhockey

Breakers said:


> Yeah maybe Vancouver should do another jake Virtanen and Jared Mccann and rush him
> 
> Genius way of developing.



Not a good idea to overcook players either. How many 5th OA start in ahl the last 10 drafts?


----------



## TeddyBare

DDRhockey said:


> Not a good idea to overcook players either. How many 5th OA start in ahl the last 10 drafts?





What does his draft position have to do with anything? it's just a number.
Stats show the best drafting and developing teams in the league consistently use the AHL as a stepping stone.


If he succeeds then you bring him up simple as that.
The second leading scorer in the NHL started in the AHL and boom he was called up.


----------



## scorvat53

DDRhockey said:


> Regarding EP. If he is good enough for canucks next preseason no reason to send him to ahl.




Agreed. If EP goes to the AHL it will be at the end of this year. Idk what the dates are for the SHL playoffs but I'm assuming that his team would have to be knocked out early for this to happen.


----------



## Szechwan

TeddyBare said:


> What does his draft position have to do with anything? it's just a number.
> *Stats show* the best drafting and developing teams in the league consistently use the AHL as a stepping stone.
> .



Which stats?


----------



## nowhereman

TeddyBare said:


> What does his draft position have to do with anything? it's just a number.
> Stats show the best drafting and developing teams in the league consistently use the AHL as a stepping stone.
> 
> If he succeeds then you bring him up simple as that.
> The second leading scorer in the NHL started in the AHL and boom he was called up.



He is correct, though. And I'm not sure what stats you are referring to. Of the other 9 guys in that top 10 in NHL scoring, none have played more than half a season in the AHL and most of them haven't even played a single AHL game. Funny enough, most of the guys in the top 10 won't be there at year's end and if you did the same thing at year's end, you'd get an even more lopsided result.

The vast majority of the time, top 5 picks don't use the AHL as a stepping stone and, if they do, it's usually only briefly (unless they're an import). Unless a player is stumbling in his development (i.e. Michael Dal Colle, Griffin Reinhart, Dylan Strome, etc.), most top 5ers make the jump to the NHL in their D+1 or D+2 season. The development curve of a top 5 pick should (and usually is) much steeper than that of late round pick.


----------



## TeddyBare

Szechwan said:


> Which stats?




Look at the distribution of picks to the % of games played, then look at which players spent time in the AHL
You'll find the best teams like anaheim
Look at their roster for instance
Silverberg
Perry 
Rakell
Lindholm
Getzlaf
Manson
Montour
Vatanen
Richie
etc etc
all spent time in the AHL


----------



## TeddyBare

nowhereman said:


> He is correct, though. And I'm not sure what stats you are referring to. Of the other 9 guys in that top 10 in NHL scoring, none have played more than half a season in the AHL and most of them haven't even played a single AHL game. Funny enough, most of the guys in the top 10 won't be there at year's end and *if you did the same thing at year's end, you'd get an even more lopsided result.*
> 
> The vast majority of the time, top 5 picks don't use the AHL as a stepping stone and, if they do, *it's usually only briefly* (unless they're an import). Unless a player is stumbling in his development (i.e. Michael Dal Colle, Griffin Reinhart, Dylan Strome, etc.), most top 5ers make the jump to the NHL in their D+1 or D+2 season. The development curve of a top 5 pick should (and usually is) much steeper than that of late round pick.




I don't remember saying anything about a time frame.


----------



## nowhereman

TeddyBare said:


> Look at the distribution of picks to the % of games played, then look at which players spent time in the AHL
> You'll find the best teams like anaheim
> Look at their roster for instance
> Silverberg
> Perry
> Rakell
> Lindholm
> Getzlaf
> Manson
> Montour
> Vatanen
> Richie
> etc etc
> all spent time in the AHL



You can find a list of players like that on every team. The thing is, none of those guys was a top 5 pick, which was DDRhockey's point in the first place. This is not a debate of the AHL's merit as a developmental league for players who need it (i.e. most everyone drafted outside the top 10). This is a debate on whether it's smart to send a player who is ready for the NHL to the AHL, just to let them ripen some more. If the Canucks had done that this year, they'd be without their leading scorer. IMO, there's also harm in keeping a player down (i.e. confidence, development of bad habits, etc.), just the same as there is in throwing them into the fire.

When a player is ready, they're ready.


----------



## Canucks LB

Tryampled said:


> WJC is not a good gauge. Boeser and Horvat were both bad and they seem to be doing just fine in the NHL.
> 
> on the flip side you have guys like Hodgson, Schroeder and maybe Puljujärvi.



Good point, Horvat was nothing special, and Boeser was pretty bad at the WJC. 

Hodgson was amazing also


----------



## Kaako Kappo

Does anybody else feel like he might be....Generational? The way he dekes SHL fools and makes all the goalies look like Vesa Toskala....his passes are so crisp and milky, almost planetary and orange. He might be the next next one.


----------



## CherryToke

Don't use the G word.


----------



## CloutierForVezina

TeddyBare said:


> Look at the distribution of picks to the % of games played, then look at which players spent time in the AHL
> You'll find the best teams like anaheim
> Look at their roster for instance
> Silverberg
> Perry
> Rakell
> Lindholm
> Getzlaf
> Manson
> Montour
> Vatanen
> Richie
> etc etc
> all spent time in the AHL




You've managed to completely mix up cause and effect.

The fact that most players aren't good enough to jump to the NHL right away doesn't mean that AHL time automatically equals better development, it just means it's a necessary step for a lot of players who need to improve their game before they can crack an NHL roster.

Great players don't need time in the AHL. Crosby, Malkin, Ovie, Thornton, Iginla, Kopitar, Doughty, Hedman, Stamkos, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Tarasenko, Matthews, McDavid, Eichel, Laine, Ehlers, Marner, Tavares, Duchene, Ryan O'Reilly, Kane, Toews, J. Staal, Voracek, Oshie, Stastny, Seguin, Skinner, MacKinnon, Barkov, Provorov, Tkachuk, etc. have all managed to do just fine despite never stepping foot on AHL ice.

That doesn't mean that AHL time is bad and people who spend time there can't be great, it just means that it's nowhere near as necessary or as universally beneficial as you make it out to be.

At Petterson's current pace, he should never touch AHL ice. The next step should be directly to dominating the NHL.


----------



## GetFocht

Rambokala said:


> Does anybody else feel like he might be....Generational? The way he dekes SHL fools and makes all the goalies look like Vesa Toskala....his passes are so crisp and milky, almost planetary and orange. He might be the next next one.




I think he's the forward version of Erik Karlsson. 

NYR traded up in the draft to secure him but Benning swooped in and got hi.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

Rambokala said:


> Does anybody else feel like he might be....Generational? The way he dekes SHL fools and makes all the goalies look like Vesa Toskala....his passes are so crisp and milky, almost planetary and orange. He might be the next next one.



Is Nicklas Bäckström generational in your opinion?


----------



## TeddyBare

nowhereman said:


> You can find a list of players like that on every team. The thing is, none of those guys was a top 5 pick, which was DDRhockey's point in the first place. This is not a debate of the AHL's merit as a developmental league for players who need it (i.e. most everyone drafted outside the top 10). This is a debate on whether it's smart to send a player who is ready for the NHL to the AHL, just to let them ripen some more. If the Canucks had done that this year, they'd be without their leading scorer. IMO, there's also harm in keeping a player down (i.e. confidence, development of bad habits, etc.), just the same as there is in throwing them into the fire.
> 
> When a player is ready, they're ready.




all you've done is prove my point LOL

He said he should never set foot in the AHL simply because he is 5th overall pick
I said it is determined by the player.


----------



## Kaako Kappo

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> Is Nicklas Bäckström generational in your opinion?



No but Pettersson has prooved to be better already


----------



## Breakers

DDRhockey said:


> Not a good idea to overcook players either. How many 5th OA start in ahl the last 10 drafts?




Overcook players?

If a player can't prove himself in the necessary development leagues than he doesn't deserve to be in the NHL. This has nothing to do with overcooking players.

Meanwhile I've lost count of the amount of players who have been rushed to the NHL and it hurt their development.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

Rambokala said:


> No but Pettersson has prooved to be better already



Ehmm... Pettersson is a better player than a franchise center who scored over ppg last season and has had a career high of 101pts? Either I misunderstood what you meant or you're out of your mind.


----------



## DDRhockey

TeddyBare said:


> all you've done is prove my point LOL
> 
> He said he should never set foot in the AHL simply because he is 5th overall pick
> I said it is determined by the player.



No i did say not. I said earlier that if he rips upp shl no reason for ahl. Is pettersson worse then nico and patrick? Both went straight to nhl.


----------



## DDRhockey

Breakers said:


> Overcook players?
> 
> If a player can't prove himself in the necessary development leagues than he doesn't deserve to be in the NHL. This has nothing to do with overcooking players.



EP is proving himself right now.


----------



## GetFocht

At this point, I think he's the best prospect not in the NHL.


----------



## Jrtu

PorscheDesign said:


> I think he's the forward version of Erik Karlsson.
> 
> *NYR traded up in the draft to secure him but Benning swooped in and got him.*




Has this been documented anywhere? 
Because I don't recall reading anything on this.


----------



## member 105785

Jrtu said:


> Has this been documented anywhere?
> Because I don't recall reading anything on this.






there's a part about NYR trading up in there


----------



## EK47

PorscheDesign said:


> At this point, I think he's the best prospect not in the NHL.



Heiskanen, Tolvanen and Dahlin are at the same level.


----------



## GetFocht

Jrtu said:


> Has this been documented anywhere?
> Because I don't recall reading anything on this.




It’s pretty easy to understand NYR intentions when you piece it together. They were scouting Sweden quite heavily, they traded up to 7th, they could have had Lias at their current pick. Also when Benning was proposed to trade down, he refused because he specifically said he doesn’t know what NYR are going to do with their pick given Canucks had Pettersson targeted.


----------



## Szechwan

Rambokala said:


> Does anybody else feel like he might be....Generational? The way he dekes SHL fools and makes all the goalies look like Vesa Toskala....his passes are so crisp and milky, almost planetary and orange. He might be the next next one.






Rambokala said:


> No but Pettersson has prooved to be better already






Hockeyisl1fe said:


> Ehmm... Pettersson is a better player than a franchise center who scored over ppg last season and has had a career high of 101pts? Either I misunderstood what you meant or you're out of your mind.




Don't feed the trolls


----------



## Canucks LB

He is probably the best prospect not in the nhl


----------



## member 105785

DDRhockey said:


> Not a good idea to overcook players either. How many 5th OA start in ahl the last 10 drafts?




How many 5OA get rushed to the NHL and don't pan out? Overcooking players isn't a real thing while rushing to the NHL and destroying their confidence because they aren't ready, absolutely is.


----------



## nowhereman

Lucbourdon said:


> He is probably the best prospect not in the nhl



Dahlin and Svechnikov are ahead, if we're also including undrafted prospects, but he's up there for sure.


----------



## Breakers

archer cartridge said:


> How many 5OA get rushed to the NHL and don't pan out? Overcooking players isn't a real thing while rushing to the NHL and destroying their confidence because they aren't ready, absolutely is.




Yeah "Overcooking"....... If that is a real term, doesn't exist.

I'm still waiting for an example of a player who couldn't hack it in lesser development leagues, and that somehow ruined his NHL career.


----------



## Grub

A primary assist so far 2 periods in.

19GP. 9G 15A


----------



## Canucks LB

Grub said:


> A primary assist so far 2 periods in.
> 
> 19GP. 9G 15A



Crazy how he just flawlessly keeps producing


----------



## DDRhockey

24p in 19 games now.


----------



## member 105785

Breakers said:


> Yeah "Overcooking"....... If that is a real term, doesn't exist.
> 
> I'm still waiting for an example of a player who couldn't hack it in lesser development leagues, and that somehow ruined his NHL career.




No idea of any of those, however I can tell you that Zibanejad, the Stromes, the Reinharts, Huberdeau, Gudbranson, Cowen, L. Schenn, Bogosian, Gagner, Brassard, Peter Mueller, Brule, Brian Lee, Cam Barker, Rusty Olesz were all picked 10 or above, all made the NHL right away and were disappointing or just straight up busts.

From those same draft years, players who started in the AHL or other leagues include Kopitar, Ryan, Price, M. Staal, Backstrom, Kessel, Okposo, JVR, Couture, Alzner, B. Schenn, Kadri, Mikael Granlund, Scheifele, Forsberg, Horvat, and Larkin

There are other players who started in the NHL who were great of course, and some stuck it out to have average careers like Brassard or J. Johnson as well but I don't want to comb through the draft lists again.


----------



## GetFocht

He has a few of these 1 point games and then explodes with a multi point game. 

1.26 PPG in the SHL as a rookie is phenomenal.


----------



## EK47

Assist was pretty nice too.


----------



## Spectrefire

He has triple the points total of the next U20 forward. *Triple*.

Good god...


----------



## Zombotron

At his current pace, he has a good shot at cracking 30 points before leaving for the WJCs. I'm a Canucks fan, so this is where the magic runs out, right?


----------



## DDRhockey

Zombotron said:


> At his current pace, he has a good shot at cracking 30 points before leaving for the WJCs. I'm a Canucks fan, so this is where the magic runs out, right?



Whats wrong with his game tomorrow?


----------



## Zombotron

DDRhockey said:


> Whats wrong with his game tomorrow?



I was looking at the schedule and didn't see it. Whoops.


----------



## DDRhockey

Kinda funny that SHL seem to play every other day while your nhl team seens to have long breaks. I mean nhl play 30 more games. Lol


----------



## GetFocht

when is the next game for the best prospect not in the NHL?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Rambokala said:


> Does anybody else feel like he might be....Generational? The way he dekes SHL fools and makes all the goalies look like Vesa Toskala....his passes are so crisp and milky, almost planetary and orange. He might be the next next one.




No, but he could become one of the NHL's best players. I compared him to Datsyuk, and people got mad when I did so. Thats the type of impact I think he could have, but I don't think he'll be generational.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

PorscheDesign said:


> It’s pretty easy to understand NYR intentions when you piece it together. They were scouting Sweden quite heavily, they traded up to 7th, they could have had Lias at their current pick. Also when Benning was proposed to trade down, he refused because he specifically said he doesn’t know what NYR are going to do with their pick given Canucks had Pettersson targeted.




Also this


----------



## Knight53

Pettersson with the assist of the year 12 minutes in. Absolutely incredible.

25 points in 20 games.

4 minutes later he scores his 10th. Now 26 points in 20 games so far.


----------



## Knight53




----------



## Love

This kid is just unbelievable


----------



## GetFocht

Knight53 said:


>





that's what the best prospect not in the NHL looks like.

He already 2 points in the first 15 minutes of the game.


----------



## Love

Knight53 said:


>





Can’t wait to see his full highlight reel at the end of the year. He’s had some beautiful plays and this one is one of the best for sure.


----------



## Gurilla

This is just getting ridiculous at this point. Canucks got the best player in the draft and it's really not close.


----------



## Wallet Inspector

How many points would Pettersson have if he played in the NHL this year?


----------



## Knight53

Wallet Inspector said:


> How many points would Pettersson have if he played in the NHL this year?




With the way the league is trending wouldn't have surprised me if he put up 50-60 points this year. Put him on the second line with someone like Loui Eriksson and put him on the first unit PP with the Sedins/Boeser.


----------



## Pyromaniac

Gurilla said:


> This is just getting ridiculous at this point. Canucks got the best player in the draft and it's really not close.



I agree, Petersson looks to be the best player. I really can't wait for the WJC.

InB4 Tolvanen brigade rolls in.


----------



## VictorLustig

Better view of that assist:


----------



## DieTomi

Holy cow this kid is about as good as it gets. My favorite non-leafs prospect in a while. Excited to watch him for Sweden at the WJC and Olympics.


----------



## GetFocht

Petyr Baelish said:


> I agree, Petersson looks to be the best player. I really can't wait for the WJC.
> 
> InB4 Tolvanen brigade rolls in.




I don't even care if Pettersson goes pointless in WJC, what he is doing in the SHL is generational.


----------



## GetFocht

VictorLustig said:


> Better view of that assist:





doing that against men, not college players or juniors.


----------



## EK47

DieTomi said:


> Holy cow this kid is about as good as it gets. My favorite non-leafs prospect in a while. Excited to watch him for Sweden at the WJC and Olympics.



He'd probably make a best on best olympics at this point. Just flat out ridiculous.


----------



## IComeInPeace

Wallet Inspector said:


> How many points would Pettersson have if he played in the NHL this year?



He’s still really skinny/weak by NHL standards (although that hasn’t fazed him at all as his PPG’s are actually up this year after moving up to play against higher competition), but on smaller ice, you’d have to think it would be a bigger issue.

But, even just on the PP, he’d be able to put up some numbers.

I keep waiting for the bubble to burst at least somewhat, but he seems to be getting better instead of slowing down.


----------



## GetFocht

remember when @Luddowich said that Nylander's performance is more impressive


----------



## bl02

couldn't he had dropped just a couple more spots..ugh. Canucks seemingly have a tremendous offensive talent in him


----------



## GetFocht

bl02 said:


> couldn't he had dropped just a couple more spots..ugh. Canucks seemingly have a tremendous offensive talent in him




He was extremely close to being a NYR


----------



## Hokinaittii

Petyr Baelish said:


> I agree, Petersson looks to be the best player. I really can't wait for the WJC.
> 
> InB4 Tolvanen brigade rolls in.



Although Pettersson looks like an amazing and exciting prospect, and he has no doubt been on a roll lately, let's not forget Tolvanen was riding 2 points over PPG in *KHL* at the 25 game mark. 

I don't even wanna go on about guys like Heiskanen and especially Hischier who is already playing solid hockey in the NHL. It's a whole another world in NHL if you have used to dominate with skill in Europe.

That being said, I see a superstar in the making with Pettersson. Good job for Canucks on landing him.


----------



## bl02

PorscheDesign said:


> He was extremely close to being a NYR



You're killing me. lol. Besides maybe Hischier i would have taken him at any spot. Who knows he may even wind up being better than Nico.


----------



## Prntscrn

Hokinaittii said:


> Although Pettersson looks like an amazing and exciting prospect, and he has no doubt been on a roll lately, let's not forget Tolvanen was riding 2 points over PPG in *KHL* at the 25 game mark.
> 
> I don't even wanna go on about guys like Heiskanen and especially Hischier who is already playing solid hockey in the NHL. It's a whole another world in NHL if you have used to dominate with skill in Europe.
> 
> That being said, I see a superstar in the making with Pettersson. Good job for Canucks on landing him.





Besides SKA there really isn't to much in it between the two leagues imo. Växjö for sure would be up there with teams like Jokerit

With that said what Tolvanen has done might be more impressive considering where he went in the draft. Im convinced Pettersson would have great numbers in the KHL aswell though


----------



## bl02

Hokinaittii said:


> Although Pettersson looks like an amazing and exciting prospect, and he has no doubt been on a roll lately, let's not forget Tolvanen was riding 2 points over PPG in *KHL* at the 25 game mark.
> 
> I don't even wanna go on about guys like Heiskanen and especially Hischier who is already playing solid hockey in the NHL. It's a whole another world in NHL if you have used to dominate with skill in Europe.
> 
> That being said, I see a superstar in the making with Pettersson. Good job for Canucks on landing him.




Oh yeah another guy the NYR should have drafted (Tolvanen) and its not hindsight, but must say Chytil has terrific upside (showing it in AHL) and will not be a bad pick at 21.


----------



## Hokinaittii

Glory said:


> Besides SKA there really isn't to much in it between the two leagues imo. Växjö for sure would be up there with teams like Jokerit



It doesn't really matter whether Växjö could beat Jokerit when comparing these two players and two leagues. You need to take into consideration how much more tougher the inferior teams are in KHL compared to SHL.


----------



## Szechwan

Noooooo not the Tolvanen/KHL argument. Guys. Come on. Everything f***ing thread.


----------



## Knight53

Just scored a marvellous breakaway goal. Datsyukian like. 2G 1A so far with a period to go.

27 points in 20 games.


----------



## rickardr

2+1 now


----------



## GetFocht

*Generational *


----------



## Kaako Kappo

Szechwan said:


> Noooooo not the Tolvanen/KHL argument. Guys. Come on. Everything ****ing thread.



I really don't understand why some people have such comparison fetish. Both are great prospects, be happy and shut up.


----------



## GetFocht

2 Goals, 1 assist now.


----------



## Halfy

He may be the best player in the SHL...


----------



## Szechwan

LainePeg said:


> He may be the best player in the SHL...



Will be interesting to see if he gets a legit shot at the olympic team


----------



## GetFocht

Szechwan said:


> Will be interesting to see if he gets a legit shot at the olympic team




he's a lock-in.


----------



## CpatainCanuck

PorscheDesign said:


> 2 Goals, 1 assist now.





In no way am I suggesting Pettersson may be the "next one", but the pure economy of movement in highlights like this one really is reminiscent of Gretzky.


----------



## cc

Rambokala said:


> I really don't understand why some people have such comparison fetish. Both are great prospects, be happy and shut up.




Well that will never change. People still argue the better player between Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, etc. Logical points can be brought up to support almost any biased position.


----------



## deckercky

CpatainCanuck said:


> In no way am I suggesting Pettersson may be the "next one", but the pure economy of movement in highlights like this one really is reminiscent of Gretzky.




I think a conservative projection is Gretzky like hockey IQ with Datsyuk's filthy mitts.


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

Average TOI 16 min/game. Should get more.


----------



## GetFocht

His PPG is now 1.35 in the SHL as a rookie.


----------



## CpatainCanuck

Szechwan said:


> Will be interesting to see if he gets a legit shot at the olympic team




If the SHL points leader isn't on the Swedish Olympic team in the year NHL players are absent from the Olympics that would be rather bizarre.


----------



## DDRhockey

Pettersson is on pace to torch backstroms d+1 record. Is this real life?


----------



## rickardr

Should be a lock for JWC


----------



## DL44

Would be quite the year for him as a 19 yr old if were to wear the Tre Kronor at the:

2018 World Jr's
2018 Olympic Team
2018 World Championships

*The Trifecta in the Tre Kronor.*

Has it been done before?


----------



## Lampedampe

Pettersson, Boeser and Horvat will be a good forward core to build around.


----------



## GetFocht

Vaxjo has scored 3 goals, and Pettersson has 3 points but he's not a factor in his team's success right @Luddowich?


----------



## canwincup

DL44 said:


> Would be quite the year for him as a 19 yr old if were to wear the Tre Kronor at the:
> 
> 2018 World Jr's
> 2018 Olympic Team
> 2018 World Championships
> 
> *The Trifecta in the Tre Kronor.*
> 
> Has it been done before?




Ugh that's a lot of hockey for a 19 year old


----------



## ijuka

Seeing him in the u20s is going to be very interesting.


----------



## rickardr

PorscheDesign said:


> Vaxjo has scored 3 goals, and Pettersson has 3 points but he's not a factor in his team's success right @Luddowich?




lol


----------



## Wallet Inspector

Lampedampe said:


> Pettersson, Boeser and Horvat will be a good forward core to build around.



If the Canucks can grab one of the great defenseman in this draft (Dahlin, Boqvist, Wilde, Hughes) I think they'll be set for the future.


----------



## DL44

canwincup said:


> Ugh that's a lot of hockey for a 19 year old




I didn't even mention Utica's playoff run


----------



## Knight53

Now that is back to back games where Pettersson has been in on all goals for Vaxjo that weren't an empty net.

He is that team.

And he single handily won them the game against farjestad a week ago with 2 goals in the 3rd one which was with 33 seconds left to tie the game.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

That's some crazy stuff.


----------



## Gurilla

Gotta feel good for Canucks fans seeing Boeser ripping it up in the show and Pettersson looking like the next one out in Sweden.


----------



## GetFocht

*1.71 PPG* in his last 14 games.

to put things in perspective, Kent Nilsson has the record all time for U20 players with 1.50 PPG in the 70s. He accomplished that by playing 36 games in Swedish Elite League.

Petterson has 1.71 PPG in 40% of the games that Nilsson played.


----------



## Tv9924

Elias Pettersson has 11 goals and 13 assists in his last 14 games.


----------



## PG Canuck

Elite


----------



## dellzor

Wallet Inspector said:


> If the Canucks can grab one of the great defenseman in this draft (Dahlin, Boqvist, Wilde, Hughes) I think they'll be set for the future.



I'll buy another jersey if we get Dahlin


----------



## cc

Dahlin is a pipe dream. The Canucks don't have that kind of lottery luck even if they were in last place


----------



## thelittlecoon

The first round this year is so deep this year with wingers and defensemen. Hope we pick top 10 but I think we could get an elite prospect outside of it.


----------



## NuxFan09

Words cannot express how elated I am as a Canucks fan to have a prospect like this. I'm just speechless. It reminds me of how good Boeser was in his freshman year in the NCAA with North Dakota but obviously even better.

It's a simple rule of thumb for judging prospects. If they come to a new level and dominate, you know they're the real deal.


----------



## Zombotron

A small milestone, when considering different eras - but he tied Peter Forsberg's D+1 production today, in 19 fewer games.

Pettersson has now cracked the top-30 in all-time single-season SHL scoring. Almost certainly going to reach 30 points before WJCs now, with an outside chance at 35


----------



## Scorevat53

Wallet Inspector said:


> If the Canucks can grab one of the great defenseman in this draft (Dahlin, Boqvist, Wilde, Hughes) I think they'll be set for the future.




The issue with this is that Boeser is literally carrying this Canucks team out of a top 10 pick.


----------



## thepuckmonster

Pettersson is unstoppable, he just keeps piling up points


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

Incredible, I thought he was going to slow down since his scoring pace was already pretty ridiculous... looks like he is only getting started. Watching those clips it's clear his confidence is sky high. His stride seems really strong, I thought skating was supposed to be his weakness? Elite prospect.


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

27 in 20
This kid is DISGUSTING


----------



## thepuckmonster

He’s also only shooting at 8.2% which is on the lower end so it wouldn’t be unreasonable for his goal scoring to increase as well


----------



## novon04

thepuckmonster said:


> He’s also only shooting at 8.2% which is on the lower end so it wouldn’t be unreasonable for his goal scoring to increase as well



That's incorrect, his shooting % is actually 23.9 which is quite high. The 8.2 % is the teams shooting percentage while he is on the ice.



Hockeyisl1fe said:


> Incredible, I thought he was going to slow down since his scoring pace was already pretty ridiculous... looks like he is only getting started. Watching those clips it's clear his confidence is sky high. His stride seems really strong, I thought skating was supposed to be his weakness? Elite prospect.



He has always had a surprisingly (considering his slight build) powerful stride when he gets up to speed. His skating has improved to this season of course, but he still needs to work on his acceleration. That should improve as he gets stronger.


----------



## Canucks LB

I am so tempted to use the G word...


----------



## maaran

deckercky said:


> I think a *conservative projection* is Gretzky like hockey IQ with Datsyuk's filthy mitts.



"Conservative" lol


----------



## Addison Rae

Lucbourdon said:


> I am so tempted to use the G word...



you can't be serious...


----------



## maaran

cc said:


> Dahlin is a pipe dream. The Canucks don't have that kind of lottery luck even if they were in last place



Even if the Canucks end up last they'll still end up picking 5th


----------



## PittsburghHustlers

PorscheDesign said:


> Vaxjo has scored 3 goals, and Pettersson has 3 points but he's not a factor in his team's success right @Luddowich?



Pettersson is a huge factor, he’s crazy good right now. But Växjö would still be a good team without him. No doubt that he’s their best player tho. I’ve liked Pettersson for a while now (traded down in my fantasy keeper draft from 1st to 5th to pick him) but I did not see this coming so quickly.


----------



## Tv9924

maaran said:


> Even if the Canucks end up last they'll still end up picking 5th



That's literally impossible lol.


----------



## deckercky

Tv9924 said:


> That's literally impossible lol.




Somehow, it will happen, and Canucks fans are conditioned to accept it.


----------



## CherryToke

Pettersson-Boeser is gonna be lethal


----------



## ManUtdTobbe

My math could be off but i think his all situations P/60 is ~5, AS P1/60 ~4.5 and even strength P/60 ~3

Those numbers are ridiculously good for an 18/19 yo in SHL.

His only real comparable right now is Peter Forsberg, he's outpacing the Sedins 19 yo season and Zetterbergs 20 yo season by quite a bit right now.


----------



## stampedingviking

PorscheDesign said:


> Vaxjo has scored 3 goals, and Pettersson has 3 points but he's not a factor in his team's success right @Luddowich?



Only because he's been drafted by a Canadian team


----------



## vcanuck

Lucbourdon said:


> I am so tempted to use the G word...


----------



## Grub

That deke is similar to what he did here.... very skilled individual.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Wallet Inspector said:


> How many points would Pettersson have if he played in the NHL this year?




50-60



PorscheDesign said:


> He was extremely close to being a NYR




The guy you responded to is a Rangers fan.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Knight53 said:


> Just scored a marvellous breakaway goal. *Datsyukian like*. 2G 1A so far with a period to go.
> 
> 27 points in 20 games.




That was my comparison.


----------



## Ainec

best case scenario he's the forward equivalent of Erik Karlsson in terms of realising his upside


----------



## Ainec

Sedins would be the perfect mentor


----------



## GetFocht

not sure what else he has to do to prove himself being a superstar prospect, he's basically performing at Kent Nilsson level.


----------



## bardown88

PorscheDesign said:


> *1.71 PPG* in his last 14 games.
> 
> to put things in perspective, Kent Nilsson has the record all time for U20 players with 1.50 PPG in the 70s. He accomplished that by playing 36 games in Swedish Elite League.
> 
> Petterson has 1.71 PPG in 40% of the games that Nilsson played.




We have to keep in mind that Nilsson's team finished 9th that year(out of ten) in the SEL


----------



## Red

bardown88 said:


> We have to keep in mind that Nilsson's team finished 9th that year(out of ten) in the SEL




Hmmm, an interesting thing happens when you pick and choose what stats you want to support a point and ignore others. A team's placement doesn't have all that much to do with anything IMO.

Shouldn't we also keep in mind that Nilsson's team was MUCH higher scoring. They averaged 4.72 goals per game. Pettersson's team is averaging an entire goal and a half less per game - 3.28 goals per game. That makes Pettersson's 1.35 ppg even more impressive compared to Nilsson 1.5 doesn't it?


----------



## bardown88

Red said:


> Hmmm, an interesting thing happens when you pick and choose what stats you want to support a point and ignore others. A team's placement doesn't have all that much to do with anything IMO.
> 
> Shouldn't we also keep in mind that Nilsson's team was MUCH higher scoring. They averaged 4.72 goals per game. Pettersson's team is averaging an entire goal and a half less per game - 3.28 goals per game. That makes Pettersson's 1.35 ppg even more impressive compared to Nilsson 1.5 doesn't it?



Sorry it was more in reference to the prior Willie/Modo argument to discredit Elias.


----------



## Wo Yorfat

Lucbourdon said:


> I am so tempted to use the G word...



Good?


----------



## clunk

He produces AND passes the eye test yet people still rag on this kid.


----------



## DDRhockey

Pettersson is not human


----------



## Blade Paradigm




----------



## elitepete

Haven't been this happy about the Canucks in a long time.


----------



## rickardr

Lucbourdon said:


> I am so tempted to use the G word...




Genius


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Blade Paradigm said:


>



Oh, pictures! Two of them!


----------



## Chairman Maouth

*Knock off the BS. This is an Elias Pettersson thread. Look up at the top. It says so.*


----------



## Icebreakers

I think under green Pettersson would gave reached 60-70 points. Pettersson would play prime pp time and probably log 17 minutes a game playing with Boeser. Sedins are getting 13 mins of Ice time each. Pettersson should be #1 or #2 in scoring on the team.


----------



## canuckslover10

Man this guy got me thinking too optimistically for my liking


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

Well, with Horvat, Boeser and Pettersson, Vancouver has a very good young forward core. Pettersson looks like a legit top-line centre.


----------



## Icebreakers

Wo Yorfat said:


> Good?



Great.


----------



## Raistlin

Petterson is no doubt a 1C from his current trajectory. Just address our #1D this draft and we are set to crawl out of the basement for good.

Dark ages ----> WCE era ----> Luongo era ----> rebuildonthefly dead years ----> Boeser/Petterson/Dahlin(Boqvist) future?


----------



## SoundAndFury

It shouldn't really be that surprising somebody was able to get 1C with 5th pick but man, it does seem like Petterson came out of nowhere. And indeed, all of the sudden, you think Canucks rebuild has quietly gone pretty well.


----------



## lakers11

Will he really be a center in NHL?


----------



## WonderTwinsUnite

lakers11 said:


> Will he really be a center in NHL?




That's what he was drafted to be. I imagine he'll gradually move over there as he gains strength over the next few seasons.


----------



## ManUtdTobbe

I think he ends up a C, he just thinks the game on a different level which seems very suited to play C.


----------



## Knight53

Primary Assist. 28 points now.


----------



## Canucks LB

Just got another assist, make that 28 now!


----------



## Prntscrn

Lucbourdon said:


> Just got another assist, make that 28 now!




Unfortunately not. Pretty sure he was the 4th guy on all of those three PP goals


----------



## DDRhockey

Glory said:


> Unfortunately not. Pretty sure he was the 4th guy on all of those three PP goals



He got assist on 1st goal was then involved in the other 3 but no points lol


----------



## Prntscrn

Oh my bad. Thought Lucbourdon meant ge got a second one in this game


----------



## Canucks LB

Glory said:


> Oh my bad. Thought Lucbourdon meant ge got a second one in this game



Nope just one, It was shown tho he had two assists for a bit tho lol


----------



## 42

When is he expected to sign his NHL contract? After SHL season is over?


----------



## member 105785

42 said:


> When is he expected to sign his NHL contract? After SHL season is over?




after olympics


----------



## 42

archer cartridge said:


> after olympics



Wouldn't he still be under contract with his SHL team then? Can he sign an NHL contract still?


----------



## LeftCoast

42 said:


> Wouldn't he still be under contract with his SHL team then? Can he sign an NHL contract still?




He can sign an ELC for next season. If he signs before the Olympics I don't think he can play?


----------



## member 105785

42 said:


> Wouldn't he still be under contract with his SHL team then? Can he sign an NHL contract still?




He can sign his ELC to start next year at any time, if he signs before the olympics he won't be able to play. That being said, if he signs in 2017, his contract will slide for 2 years, only 1 if he signs next year, although it probably won't matter.


----------



## FinPanda

He can sign NHL contract anytime he wants. For example Heiskanen has signed his contract already and he can play in the olympics. It is only AHL players who can't play if they have an NHL contract.


----------



## DDRhockey




----------



## maaran

DDRhockey said:


>




And Nylander plays 3 more minutes than pettersson, while losing in every category.


----------



## ulvvf

Play on a a good or a bad team has both it advantages and disadvantages. When you play for the worse team and you are the star there, most of the play will go through you and in a way get easier points that way, but you get lesser help if you struggle. If you play for the better team you will share the icetime and puck more with others and it can be harder to get points in that sense, but at the same time if you struggle others can carry you more. It goes both ways. Even if there are cases where players are being carried by others but overallI have not seen that it really matters that much for individuall point production if you are playing for a good or a bad team, as long as you get the ice time. It is more medicore players that needs to be carried that benifits the most from playing in a good team with good linemates, but hardly even then. We see very often "medicore" players play in the first line i NHL that plays almost every game with star players but still do not produce much points.

The main thing Nylander have over Pettersson is that he was slightly younger.


----------



## M2Beezy

Yeah enough with the Nylander comparisons they play different style of game. Nylander is awesome hopefully the trends show that Pettersson will be better but there both fantastic


----------



## nowhereman

DDRhockey said:


>




6 months and a bad team are pretty negligible, when Pettersson is so clearly ahead of Nylander in almost every category. Not to mention, Nylander was more physically developed than Pettersson was when he was drafted, so breaking things down to a matter of months doesn't really make much sense to me. It's not as if we're talking about players separated by a year of development.

Pettersson is clearly the superior prospect, at this point. Whether or not he ends up being the better player in the longrun is still up for debate.


----------



## lawrence

Stop these nylander comparisons. Other then playing in the same league as 19 year olds they are 2 different type of players.


----------



## Critical13

DDRhockey said:


>





That last part is very relevant. Don't get me wrong, I think Petersson is the top drafted prospect in the world.


----------



## DDRhockey

Petterssons icetime is pitiful for a shl leader


----------



## bert

lawrence said:


> Stop these nylander comparisons. Other then playing in the same league as 19 year olds they are 2 different type of players.




Thank you. With the seasons some euro prospects are having this year in the D+1 it really makes you wonder about the quality of play in these leagues. It just doesnt seem possible to me that all three of the KHL, SHL and the Finnish league are having players set new records for rookies scoring. Between Tolvanen, Heiskanen and Petterson last years draft is either the best ever or pro hockey isnt as hard to produce in as it used to be.

If the draft was that good why is the D + 1 years isolated to these three players? Did every other team just miss entirely? Why werent these prospects higher rated. It doesnt add up for me.


----------



## Hokinaittii

DDRhockey said:


> Petterssons icetime is pitiful for a shl leader



Could be due to him still being physically raw. He will probably play a lot of games this year (U20, Olympics, SHL Playoffs, WHC). You don't want him to gas out.


----------



## cc

bert said:


> Thank you. With the seasons some euro prospects are having this year in the D+1 it really makes you wonder about the quality of play in these leagues. It just doesnt seem possible to me that all three of the KHL, SHL and the Finnish league are having players set new records for rookies scoring. Between Tolvanen, Heiskanen and Petterson last years draft is either the best ever or pro hockey isnt as hard to produce in as it used to be.
> 
> If the draft was that good why is the D + 1 years isolated to these three players? Did every other team just miss entirely? Why werent these prospects higher rated. It doesnt add up for me.




I think you can gauge the league somewhat by how others are performing in the same league to see if it's easy to produce there.


----------



## BruinLVGA

bert said:


> Thank you. With the seasons some euro prospects are having this year in the D+1 it really makes you wonder about the quality of play in these leagues. It just doesnt seem possible to me that all three of the KHL, SHL and the Finnish league are having players set new records for rookies scoring.* Between Tolvanen, Heiskanen and Petterson last years draft is either the best ever or pro hockey isnt as hard to produce in as it used to be.*
> 
> If the draft was that good why is the D + 1 years isolated to these three players? Did every other team just miss entirely? Why werent these prospects higher rated. It doesnt add up for me.




Amen to this. Pretty everyone said that the 17 draft was so poor. Hard to think that everyone was so wrong about it.


----------



## GetFocht

Do people honestly think 6 months difference is what sets apart players? Think about this in real life terms, are people 6 months older than you that much greater, wiser, and more athletic?

I think what's a true indicator of progression is playing in a certain level for a period of time, William Nylander played 22 games in the SHL before he was drafted so he was already acclimated to that level's pace and skill.

Elias Pettersson is a ROOKIE in the SHL this year and has thoroughly dominated. That makes a much bigger difference to me than "6 months."


----------



## DDRhockey

PorscheDesign said:


> Do people honestly think 6 months difference is what sets apart players? Think about this in real life terms, are people 6 months older than you that much greater, wiser, and more athletic?
> 
> I think what's a true indicator of progression is playing in a certain level for a period of time, William Nylander played 22 games in the SHL before he was drafted so he was already acclimated to that level's pace and skill.
> 
> Elias Pettersson is a ROOKIE in the SHL this year and has thoroughly dominated. That makes a much bigger difference to me than "6 months."



The ice time difference is more important then 6 months difference


----------



## VictorLustig

PorscheDesign said:


> Do people honestly think 6 months difference is what sets apart players? *Think about this in real life terms, are people 6 months older than you that much greater, wiser, and more athletic?*
> 
> I think what's a true indicator of progression is playing in a certain level for a period of time, William Nylander played 22 games in the SHL before he was drafted so he was already acclimated to that level's pace and skill.
> 
> Elias Pettersson is a ROOKIE in the SHL this year and has thoroughly dominated. That makes a much bigger difference to me than "6 months."




It's not just 6 months, it's an entire birth year. Most of the top scoring draft eligible players from the SHL have been late birthdays, it definitely matters. A 5th grader knows more about math than a 4th grader. The other major factor when comparing young players is how far along they are in their physical maturity.


----------



## cc

BruinLVGA said:


> Amen to this. Pretty everyone said that the 17 draft was so poor. Hard to think that everyone was so wrong about it.



there may still be too much focus on size in evaluating players


----------



## 4thline

VictorLustig said:


> It's not just 6 months, it's an entire birth year. Most of the top scoring draft eligible players from the SHL have been late birthdays, it definitely matters.




Nope. totally coincidence Being a full season more experienced within the European and Junior model means nothing, A U20 season should definitely be compared to U19 because a player heard their name called on stage at a different point. It's coincidence that late birthdays are only eligible for 1 more WJC post draft, that a disproportiate amount of prospects that make the WJC in their draft year are late birthdays, and that late born CHL players are AHL eligible in D+2. In the threads of a late born prospect that's all coincedence, performance looks much better that way


----------



## Pyromaniac

4LightAM said:


> *That last part is very relevant.* Don't get me wrong, I think Petersson is the top drafted prospect in the world.



Modo was an exceptionally bad team. Willie went almost ppg meanwhile no one else even averaged 0.5ppg on the entire roster That team finished last in the SHL, second last in GF and was relegated. I am just not sure how people can legitimately compare players from different years and in completely different situations. Pettersson may very well end up the better player but I am not sure that can be determined from a 20 game sample size played in different years and with vastly different teams and circumstances.

In any case I am not inclined to downplay Pettersson, I think he is the best player in this draft and he has the potential to be the best Swedish forward of this new generation which includes Willie and FF.

Edit: Removed the comment on scoring, SHL has changed from 12 teams to 14 teams. That's probably the reason for the discrepancy.


----------



## Critical13

Petyr Baelish said:


> Modo was an exceptionally bad team. Willie went almost ppg meanwhile no one else even averaged 0.5ppg on the entire roster That team finished last in the SHL, second last in GF and was relegated. I am just not sure how people can legitimately compare players from different years and in completely different situations. If I am not wrong (someone can correct if my calculation is wrong) scoring is almost a goal a game higher this year than it was in Willie's year as well. Pettersson may very well end up the better player but I am not sure that can be determined from a 20 game sample size played in different years and with vastly different teams and circumstances.
> 
> In any case I am not inclined to downplay Pettersson, I think he is the best player in this draft and he has the potential to be the best Swedish forward of this new generation which includes Willie and FF.




Ya, I would say the same. With him and Boeser, I am finding myself enjoying the Canucks more and more.


----------



## nowhereman

bert said:


> Thank you. With the seasons some euro prospects are having this year in the D+1 it really makes you wonder about the quality of play in these leagues. It just doesnt seem possible to me that all three of the KHL, SHL and the Finnish league are having players set new records for rookies scoring. Between Tolvanen, Heiskanen and Petterson last years draft is either the best ever or pro hockey isnt as hard to produce in as it used to be.
> 
> If the draft was that good why is the D + 1 years isolated to these three players? Did every other team just miss entirely? Why werent these prospects higher rated. It doesnt add up for me.



This doesn't make any sense to me. So just because three players are having tremendous D+1 seasons, you're going to start calling into question the validity of three of the most competitive hockey leagues in the world? You're wary of coincidences but you don't think it would be a coincidence that the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best leagues in the world suddenly took a step back the moment Tolvanen, Heiskanen and Pettersson joined the ranks?

How do you explain Lias Andersson and his 11 points in 18 games in the SEL? How do you explain Vaakanainen's 3 points in 17 games in SM-liiga? If these leagues are now easier, why do these other draft comparables have more average statlines?


----------



## Hokinaittii

BruinLVGA said:


> Amen to this. Pretty everyone said that the 17 draft was so poor. Hard to think that everyone was so wrong about it.



I feel like people nowadays call every draft weak just because it doesn't have Connor McDavid in it.

As far as I remember, 2017 draft was called weak on the elite talent available but there were still some great prospects to be picked later in the first round/later rounds. Fair to say, people got it wrong even with the "no elite talent" since Hischier is on a 60+ points pace and has solid two way game on top of that.


----------



## Randy Randerson

Hokinaittii said:


> I feel like people nowadays call every draft weak just because it doesn't have Connor McDavid in it.
> 
> As far as I remember, 2017 draft was called weak on the elite talent available but there were still some great prospects to be picked later in the first round/later rounds. Fair to say, people got it wrong even with the "no elite talent" since Hischier is on a 60+ points pace and has solid two way game on top of that.



agree with that, beyond the top 5 last draft felt very normal to me. If Nolan/Liljegren had the draft years that were expected of them I think the whole draft narrative would have changed


----------



## elitepete

Don't they start new threads at 40 pages?

This should be on part 3.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

birds in the trap said:


> Don't they start new threads at 40 pages?
> 
> This should be on part 3.



There is no post limit anymore.


----------



## Prntscrn

Guess what?


----------



## CherryToke

Glory said:


> Guess what?




What?


----------



## mouz135

Another point! Make that 29 now. It's just too easy now


----------



## 42

mouz135 said:


> Another point! Make that 29 now. It's just too easy now



Just one point? Disappointing.


----------



## M2Beezy

42 said:


> Just one point? Disappointing.




Too early to say disappointing but yeah only one assist in his last two games. Something to keep a eye on but WAY too early to hit the panic button


----------



## pomx

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Too early to say disappointing but yeah only one assist in his last two games. Something to keep a eye on but WAY too early to hit the panic button



He got 2 assists in last 2 games. Were too spoiled now, calling PPG disappointing? Lol


----------



## cc

pomx said:


> He got 2 assists in last 2 games. Were too spoiled now, calling PPG disappointing? Lol



because of his crazy output recently, I can understand how his point per game pace can be regarded as a mini-slump. 
Personally, I expect him to slow down even more as I can see him running out of gas down the stretch.


----------



## lawrence

he's now tied for 1st place in points in the Swedish elite league as a 18 year old. I ain't mad.


----------



## Orca Smash

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Too early to say disappointing but yeah only one assist in his last two games. Something to keep a eye on but WAY too early to hit the panic button




LoL, maybe if this was the ohl and not the shl. Not sure if your being sarcastic.

A near point per game pace by nylander was thought of as incredible in the shl, its a very difficult league for teenagers. Someone like zibanejad had 13 points in 26 games.

He is not going to get 3 points every night. Be very happy with a point per game.

It was a 2-1 game for what its worth.


----------



## 42

I wasn't serious with my disappointing comment, btw.


----------



## EK47

LOL at even starting with "too early to say dissappointing but" he leads the SHL in scoring as an 18-year old and he is the first to do so in god knows how long this many games in, after he "only" scores one assist two games in a row. For the record he also hit the crossbar.


----------



## Jrtu

EK47 said:


> LOL at even starting with "too early to say dissappointing but" he leads the SHL in scoring as an 18-year old and he is the first to do so in god knows how long this many games in, after he "only" scores one assist two games in a row. For the record he also hit the crossbar.




On HFboards, if you aren't scoring at a 2 PPG pace, you will be considered a bust.


----------



## Samzilla

mouz135 said:


> Another point! Make that 29 now. *It's just too easy now*




don't jinx it!


----------



## Grub

A primary assist in the second period so far. That's 30 points in 23 SEL games.


----------



## thelittlecoon

Grub said:


> A primary assist in the second period so far. That's 30 points in 23 SEL games.



And another primary assist. 31 points now


----------



## Grub

Yepp, 2 Primary Assist..

This kid will definitely be the Canucks 1C for the next decade.


----------



## elitepete

Grub said:


> Yepp, 2 Primary Assist..
> 
> This kid will definitely be the Canucks 1C for the next decade.



he's not even playing center...


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

Make that 31 in 23 games
Bare injury I think he's winning the MVP this season


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

birds in the trap said:


> he's not even playing center...



Good and smart players can be convert to center especially when the player has experiences at C


----------



## DDRhockey

Kent nilssons u20 record is in danger. That record is over 40 years old!


----------



## timw33

lawrence said:


> he's now tied for 1st place in points in the Swedish elite league as a 18 year old. I ain't mad.




Not to nitpick but he turned 19 this month.


----------



## Diamonddog01

DDRhockey said:


> Kent nilssons u20 record is in danger. That record is over 40 years old!




54 points in 36 games will be tough to beat. Right now Petterson is at 31 in 23.


----------



## Scorevat53

DDRhockey said:


> Kent nilssons u20 record is in danger. That record is over 40 years old!




I mean its possible? Pettersson does have 32P in 23GP but he is producing at a 1.39PPG vs Kent Nilsson's 1.5PPG. 
To break the record "points wise" what does he need to maintain? Do they play more games then Kent did?


----------



## nowhereman

Scorevat53 said:


> I mean its possible? Pettersson does have 32P in 23GP but he is producing at a 1.39PPG vs Kent Nilsson's 1.5PPG.
> To break the record "points wise" what does he need to maintain? Do they play more games then Kent did?



Given the era and adjustment in goals, this kid is trending toward the greatest season by a U-20 in SEL history. Even if he finishes short of Nilsson (PPG and total points-wise), what he's doing in today's game is more impressive, as far as I'm concerned.

IMO, he's looking like the kind of player who could one day be a top 10C in the NHL.


----------



## BlueBull

This guy be in the nhl next year, mark my words. him sven and boeser will be legendary.


----------



## BlueBull

Scorevat53 said:


> I mean its possible? Pettersson does have 32P in 23GP but he is producing at a 1.39PPG vs Kent Nilsson's 1.5PPG.
> To break the record "points wise" what does he need to maintain? Do they play more games then Kent did?



he would need to get 23 in 29, so if he maintains a decent pace he will beat it.


----------



## Diamonddog01

BlueBull said:


> he would need to get 23 in 29, so if he maintains a decent pace he will beat it.




Right, SEL has 52 games. So he certainly has a good shot (although Nilsson's ppg will be higher).


----------



## Scorevat53

How many games will he miss for World Juniors?


----------



## DDRhockey

Diamonddog01 said:


> Right, SEL has 52 games. So he certainly has a good shot (although Nilsson's ppg will be higher).




He will miss 7 games for WJC...


----------



## Diamonddog01

DDRhockey said:


> He will miss 7 games for WJC...




So barring any injuries (knock on wood) he has 22 games to score 23 points. Definitely possible.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Who cares about records? Nilsson record over 20 years old. The absolute fact is the Pettersson is hands down the best u20 SHL player in past 20 years.


----------



## dellzor

BlueBull said:


> Will this guy be in the nhl next year, mark my words. him sven and boeser will be legendary.



You mean this guy will be in the NHL next year, not "Will this guy be in the nhl next year, mark my words"


----------



## DDRhockey

Elias Pettersson said:


> Who cares about records? Nilsson record over 20 years old. The absolute fact is the Pettersson is hands down the best u20 SHL player in past 20 years.



Try 41 years old...

But yeah basically Elias is the best u20 player in shl in 40 years. Even before gretzkys era.


----------



## Canucks LB

Kid is bonkers


----------



## Hansen

edit: wrong thread


----------



## lawrence

sole possession of 1st place in scoring lead in the Swedish elite league as an 18 year old.


----------



## D0ctorCool

lawrence said:


> sole possession of 1st place in scoring lead in the Swedish elite league as an 18 year old.




We get so fixated on the historic U20 scoring tables, but really, that stat alone should tell you all you need to know about Pettersson and how he's coming along.

What I find most intriguing about Pettersson's development is that I watched the 10+ game package that Jetsalternate put together, and I came away thinking Lias Andersson was the player driving the play last year. Pettersson showed some glimpses, but he was just too raw for my liking. To see how far Pettersson has come along in such a short time is just staggering.


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

lawrence said:


> sole possession of 1st place in scoring lead in the Swedish elite league as an 18 year old.




Except he is 19 yrs old


----------



## Orca Smash

DownGoesMcDavid said:


> Except he is 19 yrs old




Yes turned 19 2 weeks ago although I think he was tied for shl scoring lead when he was still 18.

Either way this doesnt need to keep getting repeated and he is now 19.


----------



## Orca Smash

Chris McKinlay said:


> We get so fixated on the historic U20 scoring tables, but really, that stat alone should tell you all you need to know about Pettersson and how he's coming along.
> 
> What I find most intriguing about Pettersson's development is that I watched the 10+ game package that Jetsalternate put together, and I came away thinking Lias Andersson was the player driving the play last year. Pettersson showed some glimpses, but he was just too raw for my liking. To see how far Pettersson has come along in such a short time is just staggering.




I often went back and forth with jets alternate on that video and the wjc in general, people can disagree but I place very little emphasis on those short tournaments, I almost entirely watch what a prospect does in their league over the course of the entire season, boeser had an awful world jr, and juolevi's world jr on a stacked team supposedly lead us to take him over sergachev, keller, tkachuk.

I just dont like short tournaments with small sample sizes, with players who have not played much together and certain teams are clearly several classes above others. With that said for example if you look at nylander who did well in the shl and world jr, then all the better and its a nice bonus.

Imo it can also take players lengthy adjustment periods to adapt to different rink sizes, I still think it took kuznetsov a year to adapt to the nhl ice.


----------



## lawrence

Orca Smash said:


> I often went back and forth with jets alternate on that video and the wjc in general, people can disagree but I place very little emphasis on those short tournaments, I almost entirely watch what a prospect does in their league over the course of the entire season, boeser had an awful world jr, and juolevi's world jr on a stacked team supposedly lead us to take him over sergachev, keller, tkachuk.
> 
> I just dont like short tournaments with small sample sizes, with players who have not played much together and certain teams are clearly several classes above others. With that said for example if you look at nylander who did well in the shl and world jr, then all the better and its a nice bonus.
> 
> Imo it can also take players lengthy adjustment periods to adapt to different rink sizes, I still think it took kuznetsov a year to adapt to the nhl ice.




anytime he's represented Sweden at any tournament, ANY tourny he seems to not do much. That's a proven fact. Not a liability, but not ripping it up either.


----------



## DDRhockey

lawrence said:


> anytime he's represented Sweden at any tournament, ANY tourny he seems to not do much. That's a proven fact. Not a liability, but not ripping it up either.



On the other side, his numbers are fantastic in every regular season league he played in.

People should take more stock into regular season.


----------



## Orca Smash

lawrence said:


> anytime he's represented Sweden at any tournament, ANY tourny he seems to not do much. That's a proven fact. Not a liability, but not ripping it up either.




I dont think anyone said anything different...

He did quite well at the 4 nations tournament for sweden but it was on bigger ice if I recall. Its going to be an adjustment period for him on north america ice.

I would be shocked if someone his caliber putting up these numbers cant adjust, but people can continue to doubt him based on these short tournaments on small ice. We can revisit this later.


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

Canuck fans should be well aware that dominating the WJC doesnt equate to NHL succrss. 
( cody hodgson, jordan schroeder)

Were hoping Juolevi doesnt fall under those terms as well.


----------



## DDRhockey

DownGoesMcDavid said:


> Canuck fans should be well aware that dominating the WJC doesnt equate to NHL succrss.
> ( cody hodgson, jordan schroeder)
> 
> Were hoping Juolevi doesnt fall under those terms as well.



he is dominating SHL. It is only his detractors that bring up short tournaments which he has been injured in a lot.


----------



## VeteranNetPresence

DownGoesMcDavid said:


> Canuck fans should be well aware that dominating the WJC doesnt equate to NHL succrss.
> ( cody hodgson, jordan schroeder)
> 
> Were hoping Juolevi doesnt fall under those terms as well.




Boeser is an example of this as well where he didn't look great, so I don't put much stock in WJC performance


----------



## BenningHurtsMySoul

Boeser was a non-factor in the WJC.


----------



## DDRhockey

GoodBetterBoest said:


> Boeser was a non-factor in the WJC.



Yes thats a good example you dont need to be dominant in wjc to succed in nhl


----------



## DDRhockey

Of course the dream is dead. No points and league lead lost. When it rain it pours.


----------



## Passchendaele

Is he still 160 lbs?


----------



## farshi

Passchendaele said:


> Is he still 160 lbs?




recently he said he was closer to 170, i think 167?


----------



## M2Beezy

farshi said:


> recently he said he was closer to 170, i think 167?




Regardless hes GOT to hit the gym before next year and add on a bunch a weight. Still too skinny but once he gets to that weight WATCH out. Some said he had the most talent in the 2017 draft i cant wait to find out


----------



## Jason MacIsaac

He looked impressive when on the ice today, they lost 2 - 1 but Brynäs was too fast. The difference between he and Boqvist is night and day, one relies all on speed and deception where Pettersson seemed to play a power skill game who slows the game down crossing the blueline.


----------



## BeardyCanuck03

DDRhockey said:


> Yes thats a good example you dont need to be dominant in wjc to succed in nhl




Many very good players who play as 18 yr olds in the World Juniors don't produce. Boeser's only WJC was as an 18 year old. Petterson playing and not producing as an 18 year old in that tournament isn't surprising or concerning at all.

What Petterson is doing this season in the SHL is just mind blowing and historic. And even if he does disappoint in the WJC's, if he continues at the pace he is scoring at, he's still going to be considered one of the best players not currently playing in the NHL.

I do hope that the Canucks don't try to pack on the weight with him though, even though he is slight, I'd rather see them let him develop more naturally. If he plays smart, he won't need to be much more than 180 lbs.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

It feels so great to be a Canucks fan right now with Boeser lighting up the NHL and the best is yet to come with Pettersson waiting in the wings.


----------



## Hansen

Jason MacIsaac said:


> He looked impressive when on the ice today, they lost 2 - 1 but Brynäs was too fast. The difference between he and Boqvist is night and day, one relies all on speed and deception where Pettersson seemed to play a power skill game who slows the game down crossing the blueline.



God I would love for the Canucks to snag Boqvist


----------



## thelittlecoon

Hansen said:


> God I would love for the Canucks to snag Boqvist



Believe he's referring to Jesper Boqvist, the NJ 2017 2nd rounder. Unless he _is_ talking about Adam, in which case he's not really a good comparison because of the difference in position.


----------



## maaran

thelittlecoon said:


> Believe he's referring to Jesper Boqvist, the NJ 2017 2nd rounder. Unless he _is_ talking about Adam, in which case he's not really a good comparison because of the difference in position.



Think he is talking about Adam because he references Brynas, the team that he plays for and the team that Pettersson most recently played.


----------



## DDRhockey

maaran said:


> Think he is talking about Adam because he references Brynas, the team that he plays for and the team that Pettersson most recently played.



Jesper Boqvist plays for brynas. Adam is currently in junior.


----------



## gretskidoo

DDRhockey said:


> Jesper Boqvist plays for brynas. Adam is currently in junior.



Both of them played against Växjö on saturday. Adam only got 4 minutes of icetime though.


----------



## IComeInPeace

Knee (likely some type of ligamentous). Never made it back after something like 7 minutes of ice time.
Listed as ‘day to day’.

Is that his 2nd injury this year (possibly both being knee injuries)?


----------



## whitstifier

Maybe he has Marfan syndrome


----------



## DDRhockey

Pettersson 2p today.


----------



## DDRhockey

Nice assist


----------



## rickardr

DDRhockey said:


> Pettersson 2p today.



Make it 3


----------



## DDRhockey

Kid is unstoppable. He is the true #2 behind hirscher.


----------



## polarbearcub




----------



## GetFocht

another day, another 3 points for Pettersson

I'm bored.


----------



## rickardr

PorscheDesign said:


> another day, another 3 points for Pettersson
> 
> I'm bored.



4*


----------



## GetFocht

rickardr said:


> 4*




holy f***.


----------



## GetFocht

Pettersson is scoring at 1.40 PPG pace, now that is f***ing scary good.


----------



## IComeInPeace

Is this his first game at center? 
4 assists is setting the bar a little too high Elias.


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

Vaxjoe sxored 5 goals and Petersson had 4 assists while first time playing centre in the SHL
35 pts in 25 SHL games
This is getting stupid, maybe the league is too easy for him


----------



## thepuckmonster




----------



## GetFocht

1.40 PPG for a rookie in the SHL


----------



## Bankerguy

How is a 19 year old kid putting up 1.4 PPG and leading the SHL in scoring.... i don't understand how that's possible.

Stat line alone, he's tracking to be a NHL superstar no?


----------



## Donuts

calder winner next season.

canucks set down the middle for the future:
pettersson
horvat
gaudette


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

DDRhockey said:


> Kid is unstoppable. He is the true #2 behind hirscher.




#1



Bankerguy said:


> How is a 19 year old kid putting up 1.4 PPG and leading the SHL in scoring.... i don't understand how that's possible.
> 
> Stat line alone, he's tracking to be a NHL superstar no?




You answered your own question. Elite athletes elevate their play when needed. And he was PPG last season also, so its not like this is some huge jump. It is one due to the league and better stats, but his stats were great last season.


----------



## Healthy DiPietro




----------



## DDRhockey

Bankerguy said:


> How is a 19 year old kid putting up 1.4 PPG and leading the SHL in scoring.... i don't understand how that's possible.
> 
> Stat line alone, he's tracking to be a NHL superstar no?



He is tracking to put up 90 points in NHL.


----------



## GetFocht

Bankerguy said:


> How is a 19 year old kid putting up 1.4 PPG and leading the SHL in scoring.... i don't understand how that's possible.
> 
> Stat line alone, he's tracking to be a NHL superstar no?




He's putting up historical numbers, this is more impressive than Kent Nilsson and his 1.5 PPG in the 70s.

He tracking to be the best U20 player all time in the SHL.


----------



## polarbearcub

Do we have an Austin mathews level player on our hands?


----------



## Frankie Blueberries

He's going to be centering the Canuck's second line next season. Wouldn't be surprised if he is our first line centre by the end of the 2018-2019 season.

Horvat
Pettersson
Sedin (bring them back at $2-3 mill each for 1 year to mentor the kids)


----------



## canwincup

polarbearcub said:


> Do we have an Austin mathews level player on our hands?




No....Matthews scored 40 in the NHL at the same age.


----------



## GetFocht

what happened to @Luddowich , he became very quiet in this thread.


----------



## DDRhockey

canwincup said:


> No....Matthews scored 40 in the NHL at the same age.



But how many points? If pettersson played in nhl this season i think 50 is realistic.


----------



## LaVar

IComeInPeace said:


> Is this his first game at center?
> 4 assists is setting the bar a little too high Elias.






BKVCMU said:


> Vaxjoe sxored 5 goals and Petersson had 4 assists while first time playing centre in the SHL
> 35 pts in 25 SHL games
> This is getting stupid, maybe the league is too easy for him




He was on the wing


----------



## thepuckmonster

I don’t want to call him generational but he’s definitely going to be like a Gretzky/Hull/Forsberg hybrid but better than all three.

I am clearly being facetious and sarcastic.


----------



## settinguptheplay

polarbearcub said:


> Do we have an Austin mathews level player on our hands?




A step below in my opinion. But the future is not yet written and his talent level is beyond dispute. I am finding it difficult to track his potential ceiling as what he is doing is almost without precedent.


----------



## Addison Rae

Mama there goes that man


----------



## Szechwan

I keep expecting him to hit a wall, just my nature of his age. 

Keeps proving me wrong though, excited to see what he can do in the show.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

He's gonna be the best player at the world juniors no doubt. Every team will pay special attention to trying to shut him down. Especially on the PP


----------



## thelittlecoon

LaVar said:


> He was on the wing



He was playing C all night. Didn't take any faceoffs but was in the middle of the ice in the defensive zone and offensive zone. Usually he is on the boards on the breakout and tonight he was in the center. He was also being used as the third man high on the forecheck instead of the first forward in as he has been all season. Might be because of his minor knee injury that his coach is keeping him away from the boards though, not sure.


----------



## Zombotron




----------



## Phil McKraken

Zombotron said:


>




Twice the pace of Hörnqvist. If my math is correct he'll win four Stanley Cups and score two Cup winning goals.


----------



## vcanuck

4 points is impressive but not good enough to get 5! 

losing Horvat for 6 weeks could be a blessing in disguise, we could go back to tanking and land Dahlinnnnnnnnn


----------



## Canucks LB

Holy shit 4 points now


----------



## DDRhockey

Lucbourdon said:


> Holy **** 4 points now



2 easy 4 elias


----------



## cc

thelittlecoon said:


> He was playing C all night. Didn't take any faceoffs but was in the middle of the ice in the defensive zone and offensive zone. Usually he is on the boards on the breakout and tonight he was in the center. He was also being used as the third man high on the forecheck instead of the first forward in as he has been all season. Might be because of his minor knee injury that his coach is keeping him away from the boards though, not sure.




The plan to put him in the middle to avoid the boards didn't seem to work this game. It looked to me like he was mucking about the boards for at least 2 highlights


----------



## Elias Pettersson

cc said:


> The plan to put him in the middle to avoid the boards didn't seem to work this game. It looked to me like he was mucking about the boards for at least 2 highlights



yeah but he fell down. too weak


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

canwincup said:


> No....Matthews scored 40 in the NHL at the same age.




Doesn't mean he can't be as good as Matthews.



Elias Pettersson said:


> He's gonna be the best player at the world juniors no doubt. Every team will pay special attention to trying to shut him down. Especially on the PP




Rasmus Dahlin will also be there, so I wouldn't say no doubt, but those two should be the two best at the competition.


----------



## stampedingviking

Elias Pettersson said:


> yeah but he fell down. too weak



Doesn't matter, still makes ridiculous passes even flat on the ice


----------



## Sergei Shirokov

His play has been extremely encouraging but I'm still not ready to throw lofty expectations on him.

Just doesn't seem right that the Canucks actually have a prospect like this, playing this well. I'm excited to see what he can do against NHL competition next pre-season.


----------



## lawrence

awesome news seeing this, but not gonna jump on the he is Mcjesus level player or anything like that or 90 point. maybe 65-75. he also needs to bulk up, or else he will be ragged dolled.

but maybe their due for on elite player. last time we drafted a true elite offensive player was 18 years ago, (1999) @#$ that's long time.


----------



## Grub

lawrence said:


> awesome news seeing this, but not gonna jump on the he is Mcjesus level player or anything like that or 90 point. maybe 65-75. he also needs to bulk up, or else he will be ragged dolled.
> 
> but maybe their due for on elite player. last time we drafted a true elite offensive player was 18 years ago, (1999) @#$ that's long time.



Funny how were transitioning to a new Swede now.


----------



## lawrence

Grub said:


> Funny how were transitioning to a new Swede now.




this team's done very well drafting Swedes and Americans.


----------



## docbenton

I just like that he's a great kid, humble, honest, intelligent, no entitlement and has a good sense of humor. He'll work hard and keep improving. His brother Emil was a 6th round pick kept improving at now at 23 he's a good NHL prospect...imagine if Elias could do that as well. He'll be someone who is easy to cheer for.

A big part of his success is his 200ft game as well, always helps out in his zone and leads the team in +/- at +13.


----------



## Lampedampe

The thing I find very exciting is the fact that he has yet to actually physically mature, and yet he's doing this great against men in a pretty well structured league.


----------



## Josepho

MrJonas said:


> Twice the pace of Hörnqvist. If my math is correct he'll win four Stanley Cups and score two Cup winning goals.




He'll score two cup winning goals against his former team.


----------



## CloutierForVezina

lawrence said:


> awesome news seeing this, but not gonna jump on the he is Mcjesus level player or anything like that or 90 point. maybe 65-75. he also needs to bulk up, or else he will be ragged dolled.
> 
> but maybe their due for on elite player. last time we drafted a true elite offensive player was 18 years ago, (1999) @#$ that's long time.




For what he's doing right now, 65p would be his absolute floor.

I don't know if people truly appreciate how unprecedented his point totals are in the SHL.

0.5 ppg would have been a good development year.
0.75 ppg would have been great.
1.0 ppg would have been a phenomenal, record breaking year, trending towards an almost surefire 1st line player.
1.4 ppg is ???

He's trending better than anyone's wildest dreams - he's on pace to absolutely destroy what Forsberg, Backstrom or the Sedins did in their d+1 or d+2 years in the SHL. He's putting up numbers you would expect from a generational talent.

Everyone is just waiting for his hot streak to end and for his numbers to fall back to earth but somehow they keep getting better.


----------



## GetFocht

CloutierForVezina said:


> For what he's doing right now, 65p would be his absolute floor.
> 
> I don't know if people truly appreciate how unprecedented his point totals are in the SHL.
> 
> 0.5 ppg would have been a good development year.
> 0.75 ppg would have been great.
> 1.0 ppg would have been a phenomenal, record breaking year, trending towards an almost surefire 1st line player.
> 1.4 ppg is ???
> 
> He's trending better than anyone's wildest dreams - he's on pace to absolutely destroy what Forsberg, Backstrom or the Sedins did in their d+1 or d+2 years in the SHL. He's putting up numbers you would expect from a generational talent.
> 
> Everyone is just waiting for his hot streak to end and for his numbers to fall back to earth but somehow they keep getting better.




This.

He's putting up generational numbers in the SHL. He will likely break a 40 year record by Kent Nilsson.


----------



## lawrence

CloutierForVezina said:


> For what he's doing right now, 65p would be his absolute floor.
> 
> I don't know if people truly appreciate how unprecedented his point totals are in the SHL.
> 
> 0.5 ppg would have been a good development year.
> 0.75 ppg would have been great.
> 1.0 ppg would have been a phenomenal, record breaking year, trending towards an almost surefire 1st line player.
> 1.4 ppg is ???
> 
> He's trending better than anyone's wildest dreams - he's on pace to absolutely destroy what Forsberg, Backstrom or the Sedins did in their d+1 or d+2 years in the SHL. He's putting up numbers you would expect from a generational talent.
> 
> Everyone is just waiting for his hot streak to end and for his numbers to fall back to earth but somehow they keep getting better.




totally agreed with your gauge. been following that leauge since 99. Also have to consider the fact, it's not like he is playing with some high scoring linemate. he's doing it himself.


----------



## DDRhockey

Pettersson already a legend


----------



## rickardr

DDRhockey said:


> Pettersson already a legend



He is 13 points before the 2nd most scoring player on his team, as a rookie, thats insane


----------



## Elias Pettersson

CloutierForVezina said:


> For what he's doing right now, 65p would be his absolute floor.
> 
> I don't know if people truly appreciate how unprecedented his point totals are in the SHL.
> 
> 0.5 ppg would have been a good development year.
> 0.75 ppg would have been great.
> 1.0 ppg would have been a phenomenal, record breaking year, trending towards an almost surefire 1st line player.
> 1.4 ppg is ???
> 
> He's trending better than anyone's wildest dreams - he's on pace to absolutely destroy what Forsberg, Backstrom or the Sedins did in their d+1 or d+2 years in the SHL. He's putting up numbers you would expect from a generational talent.
> 
> Everyone is just waiting for his hot streak to end and for his numbers to fall back to earth but somehow they keep getting better.



This. I mean just look at Lias Andersson drafted 2 spots after. He's doing amazing in SHL, but points are no where even near Pettersson


----------



## John Pedro

Incredible numbers. wow Canucks future gonna be very bright with Juolevi, Pettersson, Boeser, Demko, and Horvat.


----------



## DDRhockey

Sweden deserves another offensive force. Havent had that since peter forsberg imo


----------



## Kaako Kappo

DDRhockey said:


> Sweden deserves another offensive force. Havent had that since peter forsberg imo



Yes, only Filip Forsberg, Henrik Zetterberg, Sedins, Nylander and Backstrom. And a few other potential 30 goal scorers (Arvidson and Rakell).

please.


----------



## DDRhockey

Rambokala said:


> Yes, only Filip Forsberg, Henrik Zetterberg, Sedins, Nylander and Backstrom. And a few other potential 30 goal scorers (Arvidson and Rakell).
> 
> please.



Please none of those players are on peter forsbergs level.


----------



## Kaako Kappo

DDRhockey said:


> Please none of those players are on peter forsbergs level.



Of course not, but they are beasts.


----------



## HisNoodliness

DDRhockey said:


> Please none of those players are on peter forsbergs level.



I mean that's a pretty unreasonable standard though...Canada needs another offensive force. They haven't had one since Gretzky.


----------



## GetFocht

How Pettersson’s season racks up to any SHL player, not just U20:


----------



## DDRhockey

HisNoodliness said:


> I mean that's a pretty unreasonable standard though...Canada needs another offensive force. They haven't had one since Gretzky.



Bad comparison. You got mcdavid and crosby


----------



## Healthy DiPietro

DDRhockey said:


> Bad comparison. You got mcdavid and crosby




Agreed, and the US and Russia have Kane, Matthews, OV, Malkin and Kucherov, and Finland has a bunch of budding superstars at forward as well. We've been relatively starved lately when it comes to forwards of that calibre.

At the same time we're so saturated with defensemen that I'm becoming tired of them. In fact, if I could sacrifice Karlsson + Dahlin to make Pettersson a perennial Art Ross contender, I would. There's twice as many forwards as defensemen on a team, so it's better to have many good forwards than defensemen.


----------



## cc

Considering his existing lower body injury, would it be better to slot him as a center at the wjc?
I kind of fancied seeing him with lias Andersson and Nylander on a line. 2 players that can really shoot the puck


----------



## DDRhockey

cc said:


> Considering his existing lower body injury, would it be better to slot him as a center at the wjc?
> I kind of fancied seeing him with lias Andersson and Nylander on a line. 2 players that can really shoot the puck



Nylander isnt confirmed


----------



## DDRhockey

Scott Wheeler talking about Elias Pettersson, saying his hockey IQ is through the roof. Could rack up 3-4 points without breaking a sweat.

Wheeler: Pettersson has tool set to be elite player in NHL; has had "phenomenal season"


----------



## lakers11

Would Nico put up the numbers Elias puts up? I think not


----------



## GFY

lakers11 said:


> Would Nico put up the numbers Elias puts up? I think not




Point being?


----------



## lakers11

GFY said:


> Point being?




He's Crosby level confirmed


----------



## cc

lakers11 said:


> He's Crosby level confirmed



Nothing can be confirmed until he plays in the NHL. There's no questioning that he is projecting extremely well but that's far from confirmation.


----------



## DDRhockey




----------



## PinkFly

lakers11 said:


> Would Nico put up the numbers Elias puts up? I think not




Pettersson wouldn't put the numbers Nico is putting up in the NHL.

Don't get me wrong, there's a reason one is in the NHL and the other isn't.

Pettersson is trending really well though.


----------



## member 105785

PinkFly said:


> Pettersson wouldn't put the numbers Nico is putting up in the NHL.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, there's a reason one is in the NHL and the other isn't.
> 
> Pettersson is trending really well though.




Is it because he signed a SHL contract before attending NHL training camp? Pretty sure that's the reason


----------



## lawrence

PinkFly said:


> Pettersson wouldn't put the numbers Nico is putting up in the NHL.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, there's a reason one is in the NHL and the other isn't.
> 
> Pettersson is trending really well though.




agreed.
He put more then him probably. Guys vision is off the charts.


----------



## PinkFly

lawrence said:


> agreed.
> He put more then him probably. Guys vision is off the charts.




Nico has propelled his team to what might be one of the best seasons his team has had in the last decade. Pettersson? Not even in the league yet. Pettersson is vastly overrated by nucks fans.


----------



## Curved Space

PinkFly said:


> Nico has propelled his team to what might be one of the best seasons his team has had in the last decade. Pettersson? Not even in the league yet. Pettersson is vastly overrated by nucks fans.




No, he is not vastly overrated. His historically high numbers for someone his age in Swedon's top league says he couldn't be overrated unless you start comparing him to elite players. But there is a chance he could become one of the elite. His current production says he has a chance.


----------



## clunk

PinkFly said:


> Nico has propelled his team to what might be one of the best seasons his team has had in the last decade. Pettersson? Not even in the league yet. Pettersson is vastly overrated by nucks fans.




$10,000 Vcash that you've never watched Pettersson play a game in your life.


----------



## member 105785

PinkFly said:


> Nico has propelled his team to what might be one of the best seasons his team has had in the last decade. Pettersson? Not even in the league yet. Pettersson is vastly overrated by nucks fans.




How are you supposed to accurately rate a player who is putting up unheard of numbers? Better than Henrik and Daniel Sedin, on the level of players like Peter Forsberg?


----------



## PinkFly

Curved Space said:


> No, he is not vastly overrated. His historically high numbers for someone his age in Swedon's top league says he couldn't be overrated unless you start comparing him to elite players. But there is a chance he could become one of the elite. His current production says he has a chance.




He should not be mentioned in the same sentence as a Matthews or McDavid and I've seen it a couple times in this thread.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

PinkFly said:


> He should not be mentioned in the same sentence as a Matthews or McDavid and I've seen it a couple times in this thread.



His ceiling is a Crosby level guy. But will he reach it


----------



## M2Beezy

Elias Pettersson said:


> His ceiling is a Crosby level guy. But will he reach it



What


----------



## Vancouver Canucks

Elias Pettersson said:


> His ceiling is a Crosby level guy. But will he reach it




Uh....what? What is this guy?


----------



## naruto

If he was as good as Nucks fans are saying, he would be able to play in the NHL this year...


----------



## Elias Pettersson

naruto said:


> If he was as good as Nucks fans are saying, he would be able to play in the NHL this year...



At the beginning of the year, no one knew he was going to be the best player in SHL history


----------



## DDRhockey

archer cartridge said:


> Is it because he signed a SHL contract before attending NHL training camp? Pretty sure that's the reason



No the reason is that canucks arent rushing him


----------



## deckercky

Elias Pettersson said:


> At the beginning of the year, no one knew he was going to be the best player in SHL history




Yeah, based on how he's performing in the SHL, he obviously could have produced in the NHL. But the reason he's not in the NHL is that he doesn't really have an NHL body at this point (tall but skinny).

It probably is for the best - I think RNH would have been better not to play in the NHL immediately even though he was good enough to produce.


----------



## member 105785

naruto said:


> If he was as good as Nucks fans are saying, he would be able to play in the NHL this year...




He signed a contract to play in the SHL before training camp started



DDRhockey said:


> No the reason is that canucks arent rushing him




Regardless, he did sign a contract before training camp, we were aware that he wouldn't be playing in the NHL this year


----------



## nowhereman

Elias Pettersson said:


> His ceiling is a Crosby level guy. But will he reach it



Sidney Crosby is one of the greatest players to ever lace up a pair of skates. Let's not get ahead of ourselves...

Pettersson does look like a potential superstar, though.


----------



## novon04

Elias Pettersson said:


> At the beginning of the year, no one knew he was going to be the best player in SHL history



Step away from the keyboard sir.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> His ceiling is a Crosby level guy. But will he reach it






Elias Pettersson said:


> At the beginning of the year, no one knew he was going to be the best player in SHL history




Well....whaddaya know...you went there as well, why am I not surprised... (facepalms, a thousand facepalms)


----------



## Healthy DiPietro

Pettersson has 35 points in 25 games and thinks the game like a genius, there's no doubt in my mind that he could manage what Hischier is doing, and perhaps more, if he played with Hall and Bratt.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Lol you guys... I didn't say Pettersson is gonna be as good as Crosby. I said his potential is that if he reaches it.

How does Peter Forsberg compare to Crosby? Well Petterson is tracking to be better than Forsberg at the same point in their careers. So the potential is there.


----------



## elitepete

Elias Pettersson said:


> Lol you guys... I didn't say Pettersson is gonna be as good as Crosby. I said his potential is that if he reaches it.
> 
> How does Peter Forsberg compare to Crosby? Well Petterson is tracking to be better than Forsberg at the same point in their careers. So the potential is there.



stop


----------



## Elias Pettersson

birds in the trap said:


> stop



start


----------



## sting101

Crosby Forsberg Gretzky?????

I'm a Canuck fan but this is getting embarrassing.

Might wan't to temper expectations until he plays in a smaller rink against faster stronger smarter players geesh.


----------



## Hale The Villain

You're putting too much emphasis on Pettersson's stats.

I remember thinking Rundblad was going to light the NHL on fire after his near PPG season in the SHL as a D back in 2011/12. That kind of production was completely unprecedented at the time. Rundnlad ended up winning the SHL version of the Norris trophy, and then the next season he couldn't stick in the NHL, and he ended up busting completely.

Not saying Pettersson is going to be a bust like Rundblad, I'm just saying treat SHL stats with caution. He is trending very well for sure, but its far too early for Forsberg/Crosby/superstar comparisons.


----------



## Kearns

In all the chatter and highlights, some of the nice little moments for me were the shots of his parents in the stands at the draft (but not the part where Benning looks and acknowledges the parents and the player in the stands, tipping his hand, and potentially losing out on a mid-round pick in exchange for dropping a spot). 

Elias' folks look like they take care of themselves. Dad maybe weighs 190 or so. I think Elias Petterson will fill out and have a fine NHL career. I am hopeful for a Nicklas Backstrom level career for him, which means he would one of he best players to suit up for the Canucks, ever. 

There's so many things that can derail a promising career, but I give Benning credit for making a brave pick at 5. For me, no player from the 2017 draft, since the draft, has done more to put a stamp on their future than Elias, including those currently in the NHL.


----------



## Grub

sting101 said:


> Crosby Forsberg Gretzky?????
> 
> I'm a Canuck fan but this is getting embarrassing.
> 
> Might wan't to temper expectations until he plays in a smaller rink against faster stronger smarter players geesh.




Besides the probably one guy that's being serious... most of us are being sarcastic.


----------



## sting101

Fair enough but it makes me cringe when people reference the greatest players to ever play before EP has even made an NHL roster.


----------



## Healthy DiPietro

Hale The Villain said:


> Not saying Pettersson is going to be a bust like Rundblad, I'm just saying treat SHL stats with caution. He is trending very well for sure, but its far too early for Forsberg/Crosby/superstar comparisons.




Rundblad is an exception to the rule as far as SHL stats go, just like Yakupov is one to the OHL. If a teenager dominates the SHL or the OHL, they should be expected to become a star.


----------



## GetFocht

the guy is putting up historical numbers, he's going to be on an NHL roster next season.


----------



## PinkFly

naruto said:


> If he was as good as Nucks fans are saying, he would be able to play in the NHL this year...




Yeah, and nucks fan think he's better than Forsberg....


----------



## BROCK HUGHES

PinkFly said:


> Yeah, and nucks fan think he's better than Forsberg....



i would not say all canuck fans think he is better then Forsberg.
He has the potential to be a great player for this team.We have had some very tough drafts and have not really had a superstar since Bure.Pettersson is looking really really like he could be the next big thing for this team.Cant blame canucks fans for being excited.The kid needs to fill out more and myself i would not rush him.But wow..exciting times for Canucks with Pettersson.Brock.Demko.Gaudette..all upcomming...


----------



## jd22

I don't chime in here much, but everyone needs to take a step back and appreciate what comes. Putting expectations on a 19 year old that some of you are is asinine. He will be a good player, and we will go from there.


----------



## naruto

Elias Pettersson said:


> At the beginning of the year, no one knew he was going to be the best player in SHL history




That would be nice if he actually was. But hes not . So sad


----------



## beachcomber

PinkFly said:


> Yeah, and nucks fan think he's better than Forsberg....




That is silly. Most are just happy that he is doing well and are looking forward to seeing him in the future.


----------



## member 105785

PinkFly said:


> Yeah, and nucks fan think he's better than Forsberg....




People realize he's not better than Forsberg, what people are saying is he's having as dominant a season as Forsberg's SHL seasons. Forsberg in 92-93 (his D+2) scored 47 points in 39 games for 1.27PPG. So far Pettersson (in his D+1) is at 35 points in 25 games, at a scoring rate of 1.4PPG.


----------



## 42

Ah oh, no points today for Pettersson. There goes the PPG.


----------



## Orca Smash

Hale The Villain said:


> You're putting too much emphasis on Pettersson's stats.
> 
> I remember thinking Rundblad was going to light the NHL on fire after his near PPG season in the SHL as a D back in 2011/12. That kind of production was completely unprecedented at the time. Rundnlad ended up winning the SHL version of the Norris trophy, and then the next season he couldn't stick in the NHL, and he ended up busting completely.
> 
> Not saying Pettersson is going to be a bust like Rundblad, I'm just saying treat SHL stats with caution. He is trending very well for sure, but its far too early for Forsberg/Crosby/superstar comparisons.






I know you were quite upset months back before this thread got absurd with my own fans and opposing teams fans about canucks fans typical overhype of a player (and again we unfortunately have a few fans that run to the main board and get carried away but back then the hype was much more modest) some do it i think to get other people going as a troll. And as I recall you had pages of rebuttal regarding your dislike for our fans and hype they put on players (and i dont blame you).

However you have to admit the numbers he is putting up at 18-19 are historically impressive given where your stance was months ago and the comparables with other 18-19 year olds in the shl.... you found one player 7 years ago at age 20 in a d+2 season who was on defense and its a decent example but you could do that with any league, find one or two players who were an anomaly and now somehow treat shl stats entirely with caution which is not fair either, to many good and great nhl players have put up much worse numbers then elias as at this age in the shl and have excellent nhl careers. The shl is far to difficult of league for someone at age 18-19 to just treat shl stats with caution, or seasons like elias would be more common and he wouldnt be chasing point per game pace records which have stood for 25 years. With that said, some of it has gotten carried away.


----------



## PatrikBerglund

Elias Pettersson said:


> Lol you guys... I didn't say Pettersson is gonna be as good as Crosby. I said his potential is that if he reaches it.
> 
> How does Peter Forsberg compare to Crosby? Well Petterson is tracking to be better than Forsberg at the same point in their careers. So the potential is there.




Forsberg had a ridiculous development between 17-20.

Pettersson will probably top out around Backstrom's level, which is still a top-5 center in the world for the best part of a decade.


----------



## lakers11

42 said:


> Ah oh, no points today for Pettersson. There goes the PPG.




At this point it doesnt matter if he gets points or not, its how he plays. And I can say he was very close scoring this game several times. He is currently playing in a line with no real goal scorers.

The fact he went from dominating the allsvenskan and then season after doing the same in SHL, like it was nothing, as a 18-19 yo tells me he has a bright future in the NHL. Has a high potential in becoming a superstar


----------



## Orca Smash

crossbownerf said:


> Forsberg had a ridiculous development between 17-20.
> 
> Pettersson will probably top out around Backstrom's level, which is still a top-5 center in the world for the best part of a decade.




And we should be incredibly happy if he reaches that, backstrom has been one of the best centers in the league for a number of years.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

Another impressive thing about Pettersson that I read recently on that hockeybuzz article (not sure if it was posted here) is that Pettersson has been on the ice for only 7 goals against all year! That's incredibly impressive.

Not only is he putting up incredible offensive numbers but his defensive game is absolutely elite as well. I've only caught parts of a few games this year but he is constantly breaking up plays and intercepting passes in the offensive and neutral zone and is always in the right position in the defensive zone to break up plays and great at blocking shots. The guy has such an incredible hockey IQ whether it is offensively or defensively. Only one hurdle remains is getting stronger enough to transition his skills to the NHL.


----------



## lawrence

PinkFly said:


> Yeah, and nucks fan think he's better than Forsberg....




Quote those guys who said he is better then Peter forsberg.

(Things always f***in goes sideways when non nucks fans come in)


----------



## lawrence

42 said:


> Ah oh, no points today for Pettersson. There goes the PPG.




??????????

Lol. Triggered Canuck hater comment. Only reply’s after a pointless game. FYI, he has 35 points in 26 games. Way above the ppg.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> Lol you guys... I didn't say Pettersson is gonna be as good as Crosby. I said his potential is that if he reaches it.
> 
> How does Peter Forsberg compare to Crosby? Well Petterson is tracking to be better than Forsberg at the same point in their careers. So the potential is there.



Well, now its obvious that youre just trolling


----------



## Elias Pettersson

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Well, now its obvious that youre just trolling



and it's obvious now that you're a hater. Yeah I looked through your post history. You keep trying to put down Pettersson since the Canucks drafted him.. and Pettersson keeps proving you wrong. Haters be hatin lololol


----------



## canuckslover10

No points....trade him for a 7th


----------



## Critical13

Elias Pettersson said:


> and it's obvious now that you're a hater. Yeah I looked through your post history. You keep trying to put down Pettersson since the Canucks drafted him.. and Pettersson keeps proving you wrong. Haters be hatin lololol



I love Pettersen but your Crosby comparison says a lot about your ability to judge talent...


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> and it's obvious now that you're a hater. Yeah I looked through your post history. You keep trying to put down Pettersson since the Canucks drafted him.. and Pettersson keeps proving you wrong. Haters be hatin lololol



What? You're comparing Elias with Crosby ad you're saying hes the best player ever in the SHL, comparing him to Forsberg. Yes, I've been negative, but even before the Canucks drafted him. I dont think hes been working on getting bigger and I reserve my judgment until I've seen him play good on smaller ice for once, not flopping around all over the place. If you think that it's "hating", then I feel sorry for you. Since I've already seen how you handle discussions, so I wont be expecting an answer from you that is satisfactory, guess it'll be more "lololol, hating, eskerit"-stuff


----------



## lawrence

Wasn’t kessels ceiling also above Crosby ? Don’t think he will be Crosby’s level, at the same time, don’t even dare think about pulling the “canuck fans are comparing him to Crosby” card on us oh hell no. We know you guys are waiting for an oppurtunity for it. Not a chance. I was expecting 40 points in 50 games pace from him.


----------



## 1OApick

I really like this guy. He may be Backström+ player when he gets to NHL he is that good. And im by no mean Nucks fan or Swede.


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

lawrence said:


> ??????????
> 
> Lol. Triggered Canuck hater comment. Only reply’s after a pointless game. FYI, he has 35 points in 26 games. Way above the ppg.



He was obviously joking. You seem very triggered though.


----------



## lawrence

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> He was obviously joking. You seem very triggered though.




No, just educating the haters around here who’s done very little research and just randomly spews hate. That’s not triggered, that’s defending. The irony is that all the haters that slammed him during the world junior showcase is nowhere to be found. 

It doesn’t work that way you can just walk in here , promote something negative, say oh he’s just joking and accuse the Canucks fans for defending him .


----------



## vippe

Yeah this thread.. I'll just leave.


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

lawrence said:


> No, just educating the haters around here who’s done very little research and just randomly spews hate. That’s not triggered, that’s defending. The irony is that all the haters that slammed him during the world junior showcase is nowhere to be found.
> 
> It doesn’t work that way you can just walk in here , promote something negative, say oh he’s just joking and accuse the Canucks fans for defending him .



Good thing you dont represent all Canucks fans. Im sure they would be embarrassed.


----------



## JTmillerForA1stLOL

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Good thing you dont represent all Canucks fans. Im sure they would be embarrassed.





As a Canucks fan I'm plenty embarrassed by a number of Canucks fans in this thread. This entire thread needs to be purged.


----------



## Maple Leaf

Good comedy in this thread


----------



## hellstick

I'm a Canucks fan and even I'm starting to think he's over rated here. Calm down. He's putting together a great season, but it's just a start.


----------



## Tryamkin

Mmmm the Crosby / Pettersson comparison. Fantastic... And that’s where I leave this thread... As a Canucks fan I apologize.


----------



## Baby Pettersson

Crosby? Y'all are nuts. He's gonna make Gretzky look like John Scott...


----------



## Tryamkin

Baby Pettersson said:


> Crosby? Y'all are nuts. He's gonna make Gretzky look like John Scott...



Beautiful username


----------



## Baby Pettersson

Tryamkin said:


> Beautiful username



Had to say goodbye to Baby Subban


----------



## Tryamkin

Baby Pettersson said:


> Had to say goodbye to Baby Subban



Yeah


----------



## Zombotron

I still wonder where the hell you would have acquired that picture


----------



## 42

Zombotron said:


> I still wonder where the hell you would have acquired that picture



He's Pettersson's dad.


----------



## Tryamkin

42 said:


> He's Pettersson's dad.



He must’ve been Jordan Subban and Hunter Shinkaruk’s Dad too.


----------



## thelittlecoon

He scored the aggregate tying goal yesterday in CHL and his team is going into the semi's starting right after WJC.


----------



## M2Beezy

Tryamkin said:


> He must’ve been Jordan Subban and Hunter Shinkaruk’s Dad too.



Nahhhh just his username he has fun with it


----------



## lawrence

anyone know if the goal he scored today counts towards his regular season totals?


----------



## Saekk

lawrence said:


> anyone know if the goal he scored today counts towards his regular season totals?



It doesn't.


----------



## rickardr

lawrence said:


> anyone know if the goal he scored today counts towards his regular season totals?



Nope, different tournament.


----------



## Tryamkin

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Nahhhh just his username he has fun with it



Bud, it was a joke, I’ve known him for like 4 years...


----------



## Elias Pettersson

I expect him to be top 3 in WJC scoring, if not top 1


----------



## jd22

Elias Pettersson said:


> I expect him to be top 3 in WJC scoring, if not top 1




I am shocked and appalled at this hot take. 

More analysis at 11.


----------



## thelittlecoon

His goal from yesterday


----------



## Hansen

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Nahhhh just his username he has fun with it



I think he's also just cursed Pettersson to being a bust and traded


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> I expect him to be top 3 in WJC scoring, if not top 1



Yeah, but you also expect him to be a 100+ player in the and rival McDavid next season


----------



## Saekk

Elias Pettersson said:


> yeah but you're also salty as hell



What's salty about pointing out your delusions?


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Saekk said:


> What's salty about pointing out your delusions?



it's delusional to think Pettersson will be top 3 in scoring at WJC? wow


----------



## Saekk

Elias Pettersson said:


> it's delusional to think Pettersson will be top 3 in scoring at WJC? wow



No wonder that you couldn't figure out the context, lol.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> it's delusional to think Pettersson will be top 3 in scoring at WJC? wow



No, its not. I was saying that it comes to no surprise that you would think that, considering that you think hes the best player the SHL ever seen and that you think hes a Crosby-level prospect.


----------



## Dotter

This is the kid I wished Detroit could have drafted. He's going to be a stud in the NHL for many, many years.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

ok enough salt and pepper, im back to discuss real things.

Why was it that everyone overlooked Pettersson so much at the draft? He was ranked around 8-13 on most lists. But looking at his Draft year numbers, he put up ridiculous numbers in the Allsvensken, a men's league, as a 17/18 year old. Like, higher numbers than Filip Forsberg in his draft year (WAY higher) AND draft +1 year.

Additionally: It's insane how Pettersson put up PPG in the Allsvensken in his draft year and somehow is exceeding that in his draft+1 year in a tougher league in the SHL. What kind of development went over in the summer? I remember earlier a few months ago when Pettersson had 0G3A in 7GP and Canucks fans were freaking out.


----------



## DeltaSwede

Elias Pettersson said:


> ok enough salt and pepper, im back to discuss real things.
> 
> Why was it that everyone overlooked Pettersson so much at the draft? He was ranked around 8-13 on most lists. But looking at his Draft year numbers, he put up ridiculous numbers in the Allsvensken, a men's league, as a 17/18 year old. Like, higher numbers than Filip Forsberg in his draft year (WAY higher) AND draft +1 year.
> 
> Additionally: It's insane how Pettersson put up PPG in the Allsvensken in his draft year and somehow is exceeding that in his draft+1 year in a tougher league in the SHL. What kind of development went over in the summer? I remember earlier a few months ago when Pettersson had 0G3A in 7GP and Canucks fans were freaking out.




The knock on him was his weight. That has been something a lot of people have been upfront about from the very beginning. Nobody has been trying to put down his skill level or hockey IQ, matter of fact some experts/scouts/posters were saying it was among the very best of the entire draft class, if not the best. 

He is a very skinny dude and weight + skill will always seem more appealing to hockey people. 

I can be honest now and say I had Glass above him in my rankings and boy do I feel silly now. 

We should however be a little more reserved when it comes to our expectations of Elias. He's got quite a bit of work ahead of him despite of his ridiculous season so far. It's super exciting for both a Canuck fan and a Swede to watch such a talented forward emerge. Sweden has been pumping out world class defensemen for years now and we could sure use a center that can dominate. Elias could be that guy. 

I had him 6th on my list just behind Glass. Glad Benning and co. know better than what I do (not a knock on glass)


----------



## Lshap

*Stay on topic or don't post in the first place. *


----------



## Flameshomer

I think the reason he fell is because offense in the swedish leagues is not directly transferable, as we've seen on several different occasions (I think the most notable would be Runblad). He looks to be very good right now, but I would approach with careful optimism until he enters the league. We all know WJC means absolutely nothing.


----------



## gretskidoo

Flameshomer said:


> I think the reason he fell is because offense in the swedish leagues is not directly transferable, as we've seen on several different occasions (I think the most notable would be Runblad). He looks to be very good right now, but I would approach with careful optimism until he enters the league. We all know WJC means absolutely nothing.



There's a reason people can only think of Rundblad.


----------



## Flameshomer

gretskidoo said:


> There's a reason people can only think of Rundblad.




Ulf Soderstrom and Bud Holloway are guys who come to mind too. Anyways, I'm not saying that Petersson won't be good, I'm just trying to justify some of the league's hesitation regarding this player!


----------



## ijuka

I'm actually rather curious about this tournament. He has not had that much success at the u20 level in the past, so it'll be interesting to see if he's able to perform and truly carry his team now that his scoring should land him as easily one of the best players of the tournament. Because he really should dominate and if he doesn't, it really would make one think, wouldn't it...


----------



## Cquant

Elias Pettersson said:


> ok enough salt and pepper, im back to discuss real things.
> 
> Why was it that everyone overlooked Pettersson so much at the draft? He was ranked around 8-13 on most lists. But looking at his Draft year numbers, he put up ridiculous numbers in the Allsvensken, a men's league, as a 17/18 year old. Like, higher numbers than Filip Forsberg in his draft year (WAY higher) AND draft +1 year.




I remember there being 4 minor issues:
1) Size. He really needed to put on weight. But he knows this is a problem and has been working on it.
2) Skating. I'm speaking only from the couple of videos I saw of his draft year but he had some sort of weird technique here and there. He was a decent skater but could improve on it. It seems he has worked on it though.
3) Scoring in international tournaments. He didn't put up the points when the important scouts were watching. I mean we all hear about how important the Ivan Hlinka and the World Juniors are for draft rankings.
4) Uncertainty on whether he would play center or wing. Not as big a deal, but it does impact the draft ranking.

Either way he has improved on his draft year and is really impressing right now. Due to his history in international tournaments though, I'm not putting too much emphasis on his performance. I don't expect him to be top 10 in scoring at all, (I'll be happy if he doesn't get injured!)

I do remember him having the same line for international tournaments, I think it was Andersson centering with Elias on the right wing? Anyone remember what the line was exactly?
I wonder if he will play on that same line.


----------



## DDRhockey

http://pmd.sportsnet650.ca/audio_on...ki-darling-laurence-sl-20171220-Interview.mp3


----------



## IComeInPeace

168 pounds now (from 161 when he was drafted). 
Maybe 175-180 by training camp, as a realistic best case scenario.

I don’t think the size is going to be any issue in the end. I don’t know if he ever gets to 200+ pounds, but, I think he easily gets to 185-190 when he’s done, and in today’s game, that will be big enough.
His legs are really skinny. His skating will only benefit from increased strength in his legs.


----------



## ddawg1950

ijuka said:


> I'm actually rather curious about this tournament. He has not had that much success at the u20 level in the past, so it'll be interesting to see if he's able to perform and truly carry his team now that his scoring should land him as easily one of the best players of the tournament. Because he really should dominate and if he doesn't, it really would make one think, wouldn't it...



Based on one tournament?

Yeah. 

No.


----------



## ijuka

ddawg1950 said:


> Based on one tournament?
> 
> Yeah.
> 
> No.



Yes, yes. It's an important factor. Not the whole picture but still important. 

Scouts also tend to focus strongly on u-20 tournament performance when evaluating prospects.


----------



## Love

ijuka said:


> Yes, yes. It's an important factor. Not the whole picture but still important.
> 
> Scouts also tend to focus strongly on u-20 tournament performance when evaluating prospects.




He dominates FAR better competition in the SHL... So why, exactly, should a very short tournament be such an important indicator? Because TSN? Because tradition?

I don't know about you, but I'll take Brock Boeser over Cody Hodgson every damn day. BB did nothing at the WJC and CH was unstoppable. Great. It means very little.


----------



## Healthy DiPietro

ijuka said:


> I'm actually rather curious about this tournament. He has not had that much success at the u20 level in the past, so it'll be interesting to see if he's able to perform and truly carry his team now that his scoring should land him as easily one of the best players of the tournament. Because he really should dominate and if he doesn't, it really would make one think, wouldn't it...




Not really, in the grand scheme of things a seven game tournament in a new environment means incredibly little. Even if he slowed down and finished with 'merely' a point per game in a full SHL season, that would be a more positive indication of his potential than if he won the WJC scoring race by 5 points.


----------



## Orca Smash

ijuka said:


> Yes, yes. It's an important factor. Not the whole picture but still important.
> 
> Scouts also tend to focus strongly on u-20 tournament performance when evaluating prospects.




That is often where mistakes are made, short lopsided tournaments over a small sample, with different teammates on different size rinks for some. Your right scouts do place alot of emphasis on it, but thats also why i disagree with publications and often nhl teams draft choices as well. I disagreed with petterssons low ranking before we even drafted him due to publications and others overlooking him due to size and his 2 week world jr performance. 

Our management took juolevi based on this tournament and guys like boeser had an awful world jr, then finished with a historic ncaa season.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Orca Smash said:


> That is often where mistakes are made, short lopsided tournaments over a small sample, with different teammates on different size rinks for some.
> 
> Our management took juolevi based on this tournament and guys like boeser had an awful world jr, then finished with a historic ncaa season.



Juolevi was taken just as much for his CHL playoffs and being a top defender on a Memorial Cup team. He was top 10 a lot of places even prior to the WJC.


----------



## Orca Smash

93LEAFS said:


> Juolevi was taken just as much for his CHL playoffs and being a top defender on a Memorial Cup team. He was top 10 a lot of places even prior to the WJC.




I am speaking from our management who were very high on him after his world jr performance on a stacked finish team. He might have been top 10 in some places, but wjc catapulted him into top 5 rankings ahead of others who are looking to track as better d-man, I always preferred sergachev over him based on my viewings and production in the regular season. I would also argue against getting high on a prospect just based on playoffs as well, I personally feel when judging talent you should look mostly at a players production during the regular season. If they excel in both or all three, all the better, but I dont ding players like hischier much for a short playoff, or get sky high on them after world jr either. Its about a larger sample size for me.


----------



## lawrence

ijuka said:


> Yes, yes. It's an important factor. Not the whole picture but still important.
> 
> Scouts also tend to focus strongly on u-20 tournament performance when evaluating prospects.




I don't find it important at all, although I be lying to tell you I didn't care if my prospects didn't make their national teams.

Remember these guys? 

Cody Hodgson
Anton Rodin
Jordan Schroeder

these guys are former Canucks draft picks. What they have in common is that they lead their wjc teams in points either once or twice, and if they didn't lead their teams they put up a ton of points.
Schroeder actually holds the record for American player with the most points ever for the WJC.

where are they now. You tell me if their wjc performance mattered to where they are today. 

Now lets look at the following players.

Bo Horvat
Bro Boeser
Jake Virtanen.

these 3 are the Canucks most recent top end picks that made their Countries WJC squad. Bo played once and the following year didn't play cause he was on the Canucks.
Boeser was hurt his in 2nd go around
Jake Virtanen well..... everyone hates him.

anyways, what do those guys have in common?

statistically all 3 of them didn't put up much points, infact combined, they have fewer points then anyone from my first 3 list. But they are in the NHL, one is a point per game guy as a 21 year old, 
Jakes in the NHL, Horvat lead our team in scoring last year as a 21 year old.

Important factor my ass, it's more bragging rights then anything.


----------



## ijuka

lawrence said:


> ---



Fantastic. Maybe it's been that way for Canucks. The truth is that he's a u20 player and a player like that's supposed to dominate. Another factor is that he failed to dominate the last time around as a u19 player, which already is more than enough for a player to have a strong performance. And by the way, "he was already playing in NHL as a u20 player" isn't some argument against WJC-20 scoring's importance. Come on.

I really don't care about getting Canucks-specific here. Here's the top 10 WJC-20 performers since lockout:

Brayden Schenn
Jesse Puljujärvi
Cody Hodgson
John Tavares
Derek Stepan
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Teuvo Teräväinen
Sebastian Aho
Jordan Eberle
Patrik Laine

All but one are in NHL. That's Hodgson. But his skills were still easily that of an NHL player, something you seem to have forgotten. Or do you think his WJC-20 success is the reason behind his back problems and other failures?

The general quality of these players? Extremely high. How many middling players are there, even? Puljujärvi is probably the worst right NOW, but he was u18. Pettersson will be u20. The rest range from top 6 to stars.

If you don't think it's worth thinking about if he doesn't have a good tournament, that's up to you. But I certainly do wonder why he wasn't successful the last time around or during the summer showcase.


----------



## ddawg1950

ijuka said:


> Yes, yes. It's an important factor. Not the whole picture but still important.
> 
> Scouts also tend to focus strongly on u-20 tournament performance when evaluating prospects.



Still no.

To be polite, one would say that it is foolish to judge anyone on their performance in one tournament.

“Not the whole picture, but still important.”

Only important if you know absolutely nothing about hockey.


----------



## DDRhockey

Regular season is more important than a short tournament


----------



## lawrence

ijuka said:


> Fantastic. Maybe it's been that way for Canucks. The truth is that he's a u20 player and a player like that's supposed to dominate. Another factor is that he failed to dominate the last time around as a u19 player, which already is more than enough for a player to have a strong performance. And by the way, "he was already playing in NHL as a u20 player" isn't some argument against WJC-20 scoring's importance. Come on.
> 
> I really don't care about getting Canucks-specific here. Here's the top 10 WJC-20 performers since lockout:
> 
> Brayden Schenn
> Jesse Puljujärvi
> Cody Hodgson
> John Tavares
> Derek Stepan
> Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
> Teuvo Teräväinen
> Sebastian Aho
> Jordan Eberle
> Patrik Laine
> 
> All but one are in NHL. That's Hodgson. But his skills were still easily that of an NHL player, something you seem to have forgotten. Or do you think his WJC-20 success is the reason behind his back problems and other failures?
> 
> The general quality of these players? Extremely high. How many middling players are there, even? Puljujärvi is probably the worst right NOW, but he was u18. Pettersson will be u20. The rest range from top 6 to stars.
> 
> If you don't think it's worth thinking about if he doesn't have a good tournament, that's up to you. But I certainly do wonder why he wasn't successful the last time around or during the summer showcase.




Why do you care if he has a good tournament or not ? Are you waiting to play the bust card on us ? I just don’t give a crap about this tournament when it comes to lighting it up, because I don’t think it matters in terms of nhl potential. Do you get what I mean ? I’m not discrediting the other players that did well and had good careers, absolutely not, I’ve seen enough prospects that did well and only to have marginal careers, or not so great careers, also seen many players make their junior teams didn’t do much in terms of stats, but had great careers. 

It’s a short tournament, but again it will be nice if he lights it up. I’m more concerned about our prospects lighting it up during their regular seasons then short tournament.


----------



## WHISTLERNATE

I am just excited to see him play in the WJC. If he has a great tournament, great, if not,no big deal. An 8 or 9 game tournament is not going to define his career. What I do think will be telling is how his game will translate to NHL ice, and whether he will need a year in Utica to adapt.


----------



## WetcoastOrca

ijuka said:


> Fantastic. Maybe it's been that way for Canucks. The truth is that he's a u20 player and a player like that's supposed to dominate. Another factor is that he failed to dominate the last time around as a u19 player, which already is more than enough for a player to have a strong performance. And by the way, "he was already playing in NHL as a u20 player" isn't some argument against WJC-20 scoring's importance. Come on.
> 
> I really don't care about getting Canucks-specific here. Here's the top 10 WJC-20 performers since lockout:
> 
> Brayden Schenn
> Jesse Puljujärvi
> Cody Hodgson
> John Tavares
> Derek Stepan
> Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
> Teuvo Teräväinen
> Sebastian Aho
> Jordan Eberle
> Patrik Laine
> 
> All but one are in NHL. That's Hodgson. But his skills were still easily that of an NHL player, something you seem to have forgotten. Or do you think his WJC-20 success is the reason behind his back problems and other failures?
> 
> The general quality of these players? Extremely high. How many middling players are there, even? Puljujärvi is probably the worst right NOW, but he was u18. Pettersson will be u20. The rest range from top 6 to stars.
> 
> If you don't think it's worth thinking about if he doesn't have a good tournament, that's up to you. But I certainly do wonder why he wasn't successful the last time around or during the summer showcase.



The players that lead the tournament tend to be NHL players. Beyond that though it's pretty meaningless in predicting how a prospect pans out. As someone else said Jordan Schroeder is still the most prolific US player. So what?


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Did he play today for Sweden?


----------



## lawrence

Elias Pettersson said:


> Did he play today for Sweden?




yes you did play. apparently you didn't do that well.


----------



## Canucks LB

Bust no points in 1st exhibition game as WJC


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

I for one will use this tournament when I evaluate Elias season. Sure, hes putting up points in the SHL for now, but he did the same thing in the HA last year. The quality of competition in the SHL have gone down year after year, which isnt that weird since Sweden have somewhere around 130 players on contract in NHL/AHL, as well as a lot of players in the KHL or the NLA. The league (SHL) isnt what it once was. A lot of you dont take this in consideration.

Considering how bad Elias was this summer and last year vs NA-teams on smaller rinks, where his weeknesses (small, lanky, bad skating) were showing. Inability to raise his game in elimination games isnt something that just describes him - juniors in Sweden isnt quite used to be "the guy" on their teams, since a lot of them play secondary roles on their mens teams. This is a scene for them to show that they can step up in those situations. If Elias has another disappointing showing, where he falls to the ice in almost every challenge or dosn't produce, it sure as hell will affect peoples judgement of him, and rightfully so.

Heres for hoping that he wont suck, though


----------



## DDRhockey

Lucbourdon said:


> Bust no points in 1st exhibition game as WJC



He scored points in last years exhibition game. But no one took notice


----------



## Canucks LB

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> I for one will use this tournament when I evaluate Elias season. Sure, hes putting up points in the SHL for now, but he did the same thing in the HA last year. The quality of competition in the SHL have gone down year after year, which isnt that weird since Sweden have somewhere around 130 players on contract in NHL/AHL, as well as a lot of players in the KHL or the NLA. The league (SHL) isnt what it once was. A lot of you dont take this in consideration.
> 
> Considering how bad Elias was this summer and last year vs NA-teams on smaller rinks, where his weeknesses (small, lanky, bad skating) were showing, as well as his inability to raise his game in elimination games, something that juniors in Sweden isnt quite used to, since a lot of them play secondary times on their mens teams. This is a scene for them to show that they can step up in those situations. If Elias has another dissapointing showing, where he falls to the ice in almost every challenge or dosnt produce, it sure as hell will affect peoples judgement of him, and rightfully so.
> 
> Heres for hoping that he wont suck, though



Wjc means nothing, boeser was average or bad and hes a potential superstar.

Elias can be garbage and wont change a thing. Its nice tho if he does well


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Lucbourdon said:


> Wjc means nothing, boeser was average or bad and hes a potential superstar.
> 
> Elias can be garbage and wont change a thing. Its nice tho if he does well



Sure, you’re allowed to think like that, nucks fan. I don’t agree.


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

Think about all the players who didnt make the team, they must really suck. Adam Boqvist, Filip Hållander etc Im sorry but you are already done.


----------



## Johnny Hoxville

Lucbourdon said:


> Wjc means nothing, boeser was average or bad and hes a potential superstar.
> 
> Elias can be garbage and wont change a thing. Its nice tho if he does well




This for the truth, Alex.


----------



## DDRhockey

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Sure, you’re allowed to think like that, nucks fan. I don’t agree.



You mean his career will be defined on a short tournament?!


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

DDRhockey said:


> You mean his career will be defined on a short tournament?!



How could you possibly get that from what I wrote?....


----------



## DDRhockey

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> How could you possibly get that from what I wrote?....



You seem to think that wjc is soooo important for career success


----------



## The Winter Soldier

Question to the Swedish fans, is Pettersson more of a playmaking or goal scoring Center? And who does he compare to? I don't see Backstrom when I watch him play, correct me if I am wrong. If he were, the Canucks would have a Backstrom-Ovie duo in the making with Boeser. If he does play like Backstrom, playmaking elite skills. The Canucks could have one of the most exciting duos this decade.


----------



## Cquant

DDRhockey said:


> You seem to think that wjc is soooo important for career success




I think the statement was that the WJC means nothing. With the emphasis on the nothing. Every game he plays means something, even the exhibition games. Elias hasn't been good on the international stage, and the question is why. 
The WJC is a good stage. He gets to play against some of the premier players his age. But it won't be career defining if he doesn't produce. That doesn't mean that these games have no significance though.


----------



## Canucks LB

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Think about all the players who didnt make the team, they must really suck. Adam Boqvist, Filip Hållander etc Im sorry but you are already done.



amen


----------



## Canucks LB

Cquant said:


> I think the statement was that the WJC means nothing. With the emphasis on the nothing. Every game he plays means something, even the exhibition games. Elias hasn't been good on the international stage, and the question is why.
> The WJC is a good stage. He gets to play against some of the premier players his age. But it won't be career defining if he doesn't produce. That doesn't mean that these games have no significance though.



these games have zero significance, other than maybe helping there paycheck and hype.

This is a TSN hyped event to get a ton of $$$$, I swear every year somebody thinks these games matter.

This event is exactly what it should be, some fun hockey watching a bunch of kids play hard, that's it


----------



## DL44

This tourney means little for individual evaluation in the sense that it’s so short, there is a lot of luck involved and massive team effects..

There is something to be taken in the extreme performances. If you look at the complete pic of what’s goin on, there is value.
Unfortunately people often stop at production and wins, ignore context and call it a day.

Boeser crashed at the WJr due to being buried by the skating of his elite counterparts. Skip ahead a couple yrs, and well... his legs have caught up a bit to the skill/IQ that got him selected in the first place and now he thrives. His lack of performance/skating meant a lot in the moment... but obviously meant nothing 2 yrs later in this specific case.

What I want to see.... If Sweden is a medal contender/finalist.. I want to see Pettersson leading the way.. drawing the top pairings, toughest matchups, 1st unit PP, etc.. opening things up for the depth of his team. If he’s able to do that and the team medals... then solid. If he leads the team in scoring while leading them to a medal, then best case scenario.

If the team falters, then it gets difficult to evaluate an individual performance unless it was extreme - extremely great or extremely bad - while the team losses...would depend on the context of how the losses/performance go down.


----------



## stevo61

People love to bring out the bust label after the WJC. Dubois went through it and look at him now, centering the top on a team in a playoff position. 
Sure its a great place to boost awareness to a player but its also a short tourny where people play together for more often then not the 1st time. 
Pettersson should dominate but if he doesnt i wouldnt be rushing to bring out the bust label or anything like that


----------



## Critical13

stevo61 said:


> People love to bring out the bust label after the WJC. Dubois went through it and look at him now, centering the top on a team in a playoff position.
> Sure its a great place to boost awareness to a player but its also a short tourny where people play together for more often then not the 1st time.
> Pettersson should dominate but if he doesnt i wouldnt be rushing to bring out the bust label or anything like that




Not sure PLD is the best example for your argument...He looks okay. However of all the teams in a playoff position, CLB undoubtedly has the worst Cs. PLD is not a #1 C in the NHL, he's playing at least 1 slot above where he should be.


----------



## stevo61

4LightAM said:


> Not sure PLD is the best example for your argument...He looks okay. However of all the teams in a playoff position, CLB undoubtedly has the worst Cs. PLD is not a #1 C in the NHL, he's playing at least 1 slot above where he should be.



its ok if you dont watch Columbus much. Hes been doing the little things and solid defensively plus he is being rewarded with points (12 in last 13 games). The whole line came to life when Dubois was put their as noone could click with Panarin. Hell he could even have more points but Anderson went through a little rough stretch and missed some grade A chances set up by Dubois


----------



## Guardian452

IComeInPeace said:


> 168 pounds now (from 161 when he was drafted).
> Maybe 175-180 by training camp, as a realistic best case scenario.
> 
> I don’t think the size is going to be any issue in the end. I don’t know if he ever gets to 200+ pounds, but, I think he easily gets to 185-190 when he’s done, and in today’s game, that will be big enough.
> His legs are really skinny. His skating will only benefit from increased strength in his legs.




Kinda reminds you of a couple of Swedes who haters say play
soft named Hank and Danny. They were about the same size as Pettersson at 19 years of age. They never got much bigger, just stronger and for years were impossible to knock off the puck.


----------



## thepuckmonster

Guardian452 said:


> Kinda reminds you of a couple of Swedes who haters say play
> soft named Hank and Danny. They were about the same size as Pettersson at 19 years of age. They never got much bigger, just stronger and for years were impossible to knock off the puck.



The twins play at 185-190 so that is kind of a significant difference


----------



## Canuck Luck

Canucks prospects have a history of doing the opposite in the NHL compared to the WJC recently. Schroeder has the most points for USA in history I believe, and hes a bust. Hodgson had one of the highest point totals in a single year at WJC and he busted. Boeser was crap and he is an elite NHL player. Virtanen was crap and he is an okay NHL player.

So for Pettersson's sake I hope he tanks in this tourney. It'd be funny watching all the people who will call him a bustif he tanks that will be left eating crow if/when he does the opposite in the NHL.


----------



## Critical13

stevo61 said:


> its ok if you dont watch Columbus much. Hes been doing the little things and solid defensively plus he is being rewarded with points (12 in last 13 games). The whole line came to life when Dubois was put their as noone could click with Panarin. Hell he could even have more points but Anderson went through a little rough stretch and missed some grade A chances set up by Dubois



Haha, whatever you say bud. I remember getting a lot of flak for saying we were rushing with the Wennberg praise too...It takes more than a run of 15 games of high quality play to be a #1 C in the NHL. Let's see him keep it up first.


----------



## stevo61

4LightAM said:


> Haha, whatever you say bud. I remember getting a lot of flak for saying we were rushing with the Wennberg praise too...It takes more than a run of 15 games of high quality play to be a #1 C in the NHL. Let's see him keep it up first.



Well I did word it as "centering the 1st line" which he is and doing quite well. Its not even about points, the most encouraging thing is his overall game and what hes doing to get those points. 
I was never on board with the Wennberg as a potential number 1 but the game Dubois plays has me a lot more excited about him being a number 1 then Wennberg ever getting there.

But anyway, back on topic i dont think WJC results should make Vancouver fans get too low or high.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Jordan Schroeder is the best player in the NHL


----------



## thepuckmonster

stevo61 said:


> Well I did word it as "centering the 1st line" which he is and doing quite well. Its not even about points, the most encouraging thing is his overall game and what hes doing to get those points.
> I was never on board with the Wennberg as a potential number 1 but the game Dubois plays has me a lot more excited about him being a number 1 then Wennberg ever getting there.
> 
> But anyway, back on topic i dont think WJC results should make Vancouver fans get too low or high.




We’re fairly used to rarely having prospects to watch at WJC and as a group we’re fairly apathetic.


----------



## M2Beezy

Elias Pettersson said:


> Jordan Schroeder is the best player in the NHL



You mean khl?


----------



## Hansen

Looking at Elias and Emil Pettersson, 6'2 168lbs and 6'2 176lbs respectively and then Marcus Pettersson, dman from the Ducks org, 6'4 180lbs, really makes me wonder what the ancestral Petter was like. 6'6 140lbs?


----------



## lawrence

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> I for one will use this tournament when I evaluate Elias season. Sure, hes putting up points in the SHL for now, but he did the same thing in the HA last year. The quality of competition in the SHL have gone down year after year, which isnt that weird since Sweden have somewhere around 130 players on contract in NHL/AHL, as well as a lot of players in the KHL or the NLA. The league (SHL) isnt what it once was. A lot of you dont take this in consideration.
> 
> Considering how bad Elias was this summer and last year vs NA-teams on smaller rinks, where his weeknesses (small, lanky, bad skating) were showing. Inability to raise his game in elimination games isnt something that just describes him - juniors in Sweden isnt quite used to be "the guy" on their teams, since a lot of them play secondary roles on their mens teams. This is a scene for them to show that they can step up in those situations. If Elias has another disappointing showing, where he falls to the ice in almost every challenge or dosn't produce, it sure as hell will affect peoples judgement of him, and rightfully so.
> 
> Heres for hoping that he wont suck, though




wait wait, your going to use this 6 game tournament, as his evaluation over his 45 game season?

so lets say he struggles, 3 point tourney, your literally going to use this as your agenda for the next 4 months? (typical hfboards on Canuck prospect mentality)

the stuff you literally just wrote, are the same crap I guess people like you wrote about boeser, horvet to an extent Virtanen, leading up to their wjc's. It's like a whole slew of their negatives, and focusing on that, rather then a big picture.

"
Considering how bad Elias was this summer"

didn't his coach say that he was their best player on the ice or most skilled player on the ice at one time? someone retweet that.

anyways, would love to see Gadj, Lockwood, Peterson light it up, if they don't not a big deal. won't sweat about it.


----------



## QJL

Elias Petterssen is poised to be the top rookie in the NHL in 2018. His performance has been phenomenal in the SHL. Everyone should try to catch at least one Sweden game in the upcoming tournament.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

jasonfilatov said:


> Elias Petterssen is poised to be the top rookie in the NHL in 2018. His performance has been phenomenal in the SHL. Everyone should try to catch at least one Sweden game in the upcoming tournament.



Hot take!


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

lawrence said:


> wait wait, your going to use this 6 game tournament, as his evaluation over his 45 game season?
> 
> so lets say he struggles, 3 point tourney, your literally going to use this as your agenda for the next 4 months? (typical hfboards on Canuck prospect mentality)
> 
> the stuff you literally just wrote, are the same crap I guess people like you wrote about boeser, horvet to an extent Virtanen, leading up to their wjc's. It's like a whole slew of their negatives, and focusing on that, rather then a big picture.
> 
> "
> Considering how bad Elias was this summer"
> 
> didn't his coach say that he was their best player on the ice or most skilled player on the ice at one time? someone retweet that.
> 
> anyways, would love to see Gadj, Lockwood, Peterson light it up, if they don't not a big deal. won't sweat about it.



Again, you're not reading. Try reading. Try to understand.


----------



## ijuka

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Again, you're not reading. Try reading. Try to understand.



It is pretty hard to understand how it can be so difficult. There is quite a difference between using this tournament as the only thing that matters vs considering it as a part of the whole. It really is a valid reason to do some thinking about the causes if he does end up performing poorly here.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

ijuka said:


> It is pretty hard to understand how it can be so difficult. There is quite a difference between using this tournament as the only thing that matters vs considering it as a part of the whole. It really is a valid reason to do some thinking about the causes if he does end up performing poorly here.



Yes, it is. It's infuriating that some people cant realize that.


----------



## DDRhockey

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Yes, it is. It's infuriating that some people cant realize that.



Pettersson will put up 8-9 points no problem


----------



## lawrence

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Again, you're not reading. Try reading. Try to understand.






I’ve made it loud and clear. Stats don’t matter In this tournament. Goes both ways, wether the player lights it up or not. 

I’ve provided great examples to back up my point of why stats does not determine how good he is as a nhl player. I can also provide a lot more. This is just 6 games on road to his career.

I’m not gonna brag about how great he was as the wjc in 6 months cause it doesn’t matter, or how bad he was. 

Please kindly stop trying to act like a smart ass too and please don’t try to passive aggressively attack those who don’t agree with your oppoion.

I know exactly what type of user you are. I’ve seen the stuff you write about when it comes to canucks. 

If he does bad your gonna make a big deal out of it. If he does well we won’t hear a Wimper from you. Right ? Like Everyone else that ripped the living hell out of horvat and boesers wjc performance. When they do well never hear from those again.

But yea don’t you plan to use his struggle as your agenda for whatever reason.


----------



## DDRhockey

lawrence said:


> I’ve made it loud and clear. Stats don’t matter In this tournament. Goes both ways, wether the player lights it up or not.
> 
> I’ve provided great examples to back up my point of why stats does not determine how good he is as a nhl player. I can also provide a lot more. This is just 6 games on road to his career.
> 
> I’m not gonna brag about how great he was as the wjc in 6 months cause it doesn’t matter, or how bad he was.
> 
> Please kindly stop trying to act like a smart ass too and please don’t try to passive aggressively attack those who don’t agree with your oppoion.
> 
> I know exactly what type of user you are. I’ve seen the stuff you write about when it comes to canucks.
> 
> If he does bad your gonna make a big deal out of it. If he does well we won’t hear a Wimper from you. Right ? Like Everyone else that ripped the living hell out of horvat and boesers wjc performance. When they do well never hear from those again.
> 
> But yea don’t you plan to use his struggle as your agenda for whatever reason.



Max friberg scored 10 goals for sweden in wjc and couldnt crack nhl


----------



## Grub

ijuka said:


> It is pretty hard to understand how it can be so difficult. There is quite a difference between using this tournament as the only thing that matters vs considering it as a part of the whole. It really is a valid reason to do some thinking about the causes if he does end up performing poorly here.




There's been multitude of valid reasons why we believe the WJC don't mean squat. We Canuck fans have seen first hand how a 3-7 game tournament don't matter at all.

Remember Cody Hodgson? The dude that led team Canada in the 2008 WJC in points and looked dominant? Bust. (He had more points than John Tavares)

Remember Jordan Schroeder? That led at that time the most points for an american in the WJC and looked dominant? Bust.

Remember Olli Juolevi who was the best defensemen in the WJC, I'm not seeing him in the NHL (not saying he is a bust), but Jakob Chychrun who failed to make the WJC team that year has been in the NHL for more than 2 years.

Remember Brock Boeser, who looked mundane and invisible in the WJC? Is now a point a game in the NHL in his first season.

This gives many of our fans the conclusion that a 3-6 game tournament don't mean squat in the grander scheme of things. It's not like we are making up stories, it has happened to us. So no Ijuka, many of us here would disagree with your opinion. When I followed the WJC in 2008 and just joined this forum I had the same exact opinion as you, Cody Hodgson was a god... he was Godson...this tournament defines the young upcoming prospect....... boy was I wrong, boy were we all wrong. Remember what they always say... that we should learn from the mistakes of our ancestors? Well I'm telling you right now to learn from me. With all that said, it wouldn't hurt to see Petterson tear up this tournament.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

lawrence said:


> I’ve made it loud and clear. Stats don’t matter In this tournament. Goes both ways, wether the player lights it up or not.
> 
> I’ve provided great examples to back up my point of why stats does not determine how good he is as a nhl player. I can also provide a lot more. This is just 6 games on road to his career.
> 
> I’m not gonna brag about how great he was as the wjc in 6 months cause it doesn’t matter, or how bad he was.
> 
> Please kindly stop trying to act like a smart ass too and please don’t try to passive aggressively attack those who don’t agree with your oppoion.
> 
> I know exactly what type of user you are. I’ve seen the stuff you write about when it comes to canucks.
> 
> If he does bad your gonna make a big deal out of it. If he does well we won’t hear a Wimper from you. Right ? Like Everyone else that ripped the living hell out of horvat and boesers wjc performance. When they do well never hear from those again.
> 
> But yea don’t you plan to use his struggle as your agenda for whatever reason.



I’ve explained my reasoning in a number of posts, and if I try to explain myself again, you’ll just continue to be defensive. If you still dont get it (you obviously dont), I cant help you.


----------



## Snowsii

Grub said:


> There's been multitude of valid reasons why we believe the WJC don't mean squat. We Canuck fans have seen first hand how a 3-7 game tournament don't matter at all.
> 
> Remember Cody Hodgson? The dude that led team Canada in the 2008 WJC in points and looked dominant? Bust. (He had more points than John Tavares)
> 
> Remember Jordan Schroeder? That led at that time the most points for an american in the WJC and looked dominant? Bust.
> 
> Remember Olli Juolevi who was the best defensemen in the WJC, I'm not seeing him in the NHL (not saying he is a bust), but Jakob Chychrun who failed to make the WJC team that year has been in the NHL for more than 2 years.
> 
> Remember Brock Boeser, who looked mundane and invisible in the WJC? Is now a point a game in the NHL in his first season.
> 
> This gives many of our fans the conclusion that a 3-6 game tournament don't mean squat in the grander scheme of things. It's not like we are making up stories, it has happened to us. So no Ijuka, many of us here would disagree with your opinion. When I followed the WJC in 2008 and just joined this forum I had the same exact opinion as you, Cody Hodgson was a god... he was Godson...this tournament defines the young upcoming prospect....... boy was I wrong, boy were we all wrong. Remember what they always say... that we should learn from the mistakes of our ancestors? Well I'm telling you right now to learn from me. With all that said, it wouldn't hurt to see Petterson tear up this tournament.



Even if it's really a small sample, and players should be judged more of their play than just points.. 

Do you understand why some of those succeeded and some not? 

Some of them were 19 years old, and some were 18 or younger. (Juolevi was 17 in 2016.


----------



## ijuka

Points? It is about performance not points. Easy example, in 16 I found Laine much better than Pulju despite scoring less. And you honestly think Pettersson being a Canuck affects something regarding wjc 20 translation? He is a Swedish system's prospect at this point in time. And you dont even consider age?

A 7 game sample size is still a part of the season. A very important part because it is against peers, on na ice, with na game. SHL is not even close to how the game is played in NA.

And labeling Hodgson as a bust is misleading as I am sure you are aware.


----------



## EK47

I would say the last world juniors was part underachieving and part unlucky for Pettersson. I still remember him completely dominating against Slovakia but just not being able to convert.


----------



## M2Beezy

EK47 said:


> I would say the last world juniors was part underachieving and part unlucky for Pettersson. I still remember him completely dominating against Slovakia but just not being able to convert.



Well hopefully he converts A LOT this time theres a ton a pressure after what hes done in the shl so far this year


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Talking about 7 game sample sizes, Pettersson started off the season in SHL 0G3A in 7GP. If we went by that sample size, there's no way that he would ever have been 35p in 26gp right?


----------



## DDRhockey

4th liner centering elias p :/


----------



## Huggy43

Jason Allison
Nigel Dawes
Justin Pogge

Great World Junior performances. How did their NHL careers turn out?


----------



## Gerard

Grub said:


> There's been multitude of valid reasons why we believe the WJC don't mean squat. We Canuck fans have seen first hand how a 3-7 game tournament don't matter at all.
> 
> Remember Cody Hodgson? The dude that led team Canada in the 2008 WJC in points and looked dominant? Bust. (He had more points than John Tavares)
> 
> Remember Jordan Schroeder? That led at that time the most points for an american in the WJC and looked dominant? Bust.
> 
> Remember Olli Juolevi who was the best defensemen in the WJC, I'm not seeing him in the NHL (not saying he is a bust), but Jakob Chychrun who failed to make the WJC team that year has been in the NHL for more than 2 years.
> 
> Remember Brock Boeser, who looked mundane and invisible in the WJC? Is now a point a game in the NHL in his first season.
> 
> This gives many of our fans the conclusion that a 3-6 game tournament don't mean squat in the grander scheme of things. It's not like we are making up stories, it has happened to us. So no Ijuka, many of us here would disagree with your opinion. When I followed the WJC in 2008 and just joined this forum I had the same exact opinion as you, Cody Hodgson was a god... he was Godson...this tournament defines the young upcoming prospect....... boy was I wrong, boy were we all wrong. Remember what they always say... that we should learn from the mistakes of our ancestors? Well I'm telling you right now to learn from me. With all that said, it wouldn't hurt to see Petterson tear up this tournament.



Just because there are some outliers doesn’t mean the tournament has no meaning. What a silly thing to say.

Hischier is the most recent example of a prospect who’s draft position rose due to his play at WJC’s. He single handidly kept Switzerland in the game against Canada. Obviously his junior season and beyond help draft position as well but the WJC’s is usually put together with the current junior/college/pro season to determine draft position.

Another more recent note is McAvoy and Chabot who both shined against each other in the US vs CAN finals and both are doing amazingly today.

The WJC’s is considered to be a big tournament for the young guns and it helps show if they shine under pressure, if theyre dynamic, etc etc... But to act like the tournament means nothing just because the player can possibly do bad is just asinine. Sure, if Pettersson does poorly and then excels at the NHL level nobody cares, but if he does poorly and then his transition to the NHL doesnt go well - some will point to the WJC’s as the first tell tale sign that he wasn’t going to work out. And it isn’t unreasonable to think that.


----------



## inthewings

Well, there’s one


----------



## DeltaSwede

Gerard said:


> Just because there are some outliers doesn’t mean the tournament has no meaning. What a silly thing to say.
> 
> Hischier is the most recent example of a prospect who’s draft position rose due to his play at WJC’s. He single handidly kept Switzerland in the game against Canada. Obviously his junior season and beyond help draft position as well but the WJC’s is usually put together with the current junior/college/pro season to determine draft position.
> 
> Another more recent note is McAvoy and Chabot who both shined against each other in the US vs CAN finals and both are doing amazingly today.
> 
> The WJC’s is considered to be a big tournament for the young guns and it helps show if they shine under pressure, if theyre dynamic, etc etc... But to act like the tournament means nothing just because the player can possibly do bad is just asinine. Sure, if Pettersson does poorly and then excels at the NHL level nobody cares, but if he does poorly and then his transition to the NHL doesnt go well - some will point to the WJC’s as the first tell tale sign that he wasn’t going to work out. And it isn’t unreasonable to think that.




You're kind proving the point that the WJC is pretty randomized in terms of point production resulting in success. 

Some do well and do well in the NHL

Som suck and do well in the NHL

etc. 

1 goal in 1 period so far. Running the show on the PP


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich




----------



## Gerard

DeltaSwede said:


> You're kind proving the point that the WJC is pretty randomized in terms of point production resulting in success.
> 
> Some do well and do well in the NHL
> 
> Som suck and do well in the NHL
> 
> etc.
> 
> 1 goal in 1 period so far. Running the show on the PP



I wouldn’t say it is random but my point was you can’t just dismiss the tournament as if it means nothing.

Posters who attack him for not being an all star at the tournament are out of line and posters who praise him for being an all star at the tournament are out of line - but there is certainly a happy medium and an ability to disect a WJC performance and make assumptions based off of that


----------



## DeltaSwede

One of the best players on the ice in the first game a long with Rasmus Dahlin and Erik Brännström. 

Finished with 1G and 1A but could have definitely gotten some more points on the board. Hit the post on a wrap around and a few missed chances by teammates. 

For those that didn't follow the game on Swedish TV: Every time he touched the puck the commentators couldn't help but chuckle or throw out a "wow, he's smart". 

Rasmus Dahlin and Elias Pettersson showed a lot of chemistry tonight.. makes one hope for Dahlin just a little, little more. 

Excellent start to the tournament.


----------



## 2011 still hurts

DeltaSwede said:


> Rasmus Dahlin and Elias Pettersson showed a lot of chemistry tonight.. makes one hope for Dahlin just a little, little more.



I'm salivating thinking of these two together on the Canucks next year


----------



## Critical13

Elias is a gamebreaker, pure and simple.

I think in 5 years, Hischier, Chytil and Peterssen will all be top line players in the NHL, all in the top 20 in points for forwards. So much talent right there.


----------



## Critical13

2011 still hurts said:


> I'm salivating thinking of these two together on the Canucks next year




Dahlin, Boeser, Horvat and Peterssen would be an excellent core. I would put it up there with Edmonton, Winnipeg, Toronto, Tampa, New Jersey as teams with electric cores for the next 5-10 years.

Dahlin is key though, as I don't see much else on D that I love moving forward.


----------



## Orca Smash

4LightAM said:


> Dahlin, Boeser, Horvat and Peterssen would be an excellent core. I would put it up there with Edmonton, Winnipeg, Toronto, Tampa, New Jersey as teams with electric cores for the next 5-10 years.
> 
> Dahlin is key though, as I don't see much else on D that I love moving forward.




Agree with that, the last part especially. I would also like to see one more high end forward in a perfect world, i dont know what dahlen, lind, gadjovich, gaudette or even virtanen will top out at for us.


----------



## Orca Smash

Gerard said:


> I wouldn’t say it is random but my point was you can’t just dismiss the tournament as if it means nothing.
> 
> Posters who attack him for not being an all star at the tournament are out of line and posters who praise him for being an all star at the tournament are out of line - but there is certainly a happy medium and an ability to disect a WJC performance and make assumptions based off of that




All I will say is if a player has a bad wjc, but has a fantastic season in their respective league (and the league they play in is of good quality) i do place little value in wjc. Have seen to many good players have a subpar week and half in wjc and then return to their leagues and tear it up all season and become good/great nhl players. Likewise if a person has an excellent wjc, but nothing overly special overall in the regular season I also put very little stock in it.


----------



## elitepete

Pavel Buchnevich said:


>




Finaly, a post in this thread that isn’t complete f***ing nonsense.


----------



## M2Beezy

DeltaSwede said:


> One of the best players on the ice in the first game a long with Rasmus Dahlin and Erik Brännström.
> 
> Finished with 1G and 1A but could have definitely gotten some more points on the board. Hit the post on a wrap around and a few missed chances by teammates.
> 
> For those that didn't follow the game on Swedish TV: Every time he touched the puck the commentators couldn't help but chuckle or throw out a "wow, he's smart".
> 
> Rasmus Dahlin and Elias Pettersson showed a lot of chemistry tonight.. makes one hope for Dahlin just a little, little more.
> 
> Excellent start to the tournament.



Thanks for reporting this thats great news for Nucks fans


----------



## wings5

So seems he has not played much Center at all this year, wing on Vaxjo and Sweden. Can we say his expected position in the NHL is as a winger as well?


----------



## Jrtu

wings5 said:


> So seems he has not played much Center at all this year, wing on Vaxjo and Sweden. Can we say his expected position in the NHL is as a winger as well?




It seems very possible that he will play as a winger. Canucks fans were just hoping he'd play center because the Canucks are still lacking that true franchise center (no disrespect to Horvat).


----------



## VictorLustig

wings5 said:


> So seems he has not played much Center at all this year, wing on Vaxjo and Sweden. Can we say his expected position in the NHL is as a winger as well?




He will play center in the NHL if the Canucks don't jeopardize it by rushing him into the league like Carolina did with Elias Lindholm. Let him play another year in Växjö at center and he will be a contributor from the get go in 2019/20. He won't be physically ready to play next season anyway.


----------



## ijuka

If they wanted him to develop as a C, he wouldn't be playing W for Växjö.


----------



## VictorLustig

ijuka said:


> If they wanted him to develop as a C, he wouldn't be playing W for Växjö.




So you are saying they don't want him to develop as a C? Playing top line minutes for a good SHL team is great for your development, regardless of which position you play.


----------



## Phil McKraken

ijuka said:


> If they wanted him to develop as a C, he wouldn't be playing W for Växjö.




Why would Växjö care about preparing him as a center? They're not Vancouver's farm team, they're going with what's best at the present.


----------



## DDRhockey

People are so obsessed with C


----------



## groov2




----------



## DudeWhereIsMakar

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Canucks sure did draft a gem. I hope he becomes something special for Vancouver. 

I see lots of Mats Sundin in him.


----------



## TeddyBare

He was everywhere around the puck in the 1st period. He had 6 shots and 1 goal in the 1st period

He tapered off after the 1st but still had a solid game


----------



## thepuckmonster

TeddyBare said:


> He was everywhere around the puck in the 1st period. He had 6 shots and 1 goal in the 1st period
> 
> He tapered off after the 1st but still had a solid game




IIRC he’s got a cold they were contemplating keeping him out for


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

DDRhockey said:


> People are so obsessed with C



Yeah, it's not like C's wins you championships......wait...


----------



## WetcoastOrca

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Yeah, it's not like C's wins you championships......wait...



Top wingers, defensemen and goalies also win champions.


----------



## lawrence

apparently his last 2 SHL games he played centre. 

he had 4 assist in one followed by 0 points.

so far 3 points in 2 games as a centreman for Sweden.


----------



## PatrikBerglund

lawrence said:


> apparently his last 2 SHL games he played centre.
> 
> he had 4 assist in one followed by 0 points.
> 
> so far 3 points in 2 games as a centreman for Sweden.




He is not playing c for Sweden though.


----------



## Love

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Yeah, it's not like C's wins you championships......wait...




People don’t seem to understand that the Blackhawks were a team built around amazing wingers and a dominant defenceman. 

Yes they had one good centreman as well, but look at who their 2C was when they won their cups. It’s rather humourous that people seem think you need Crosby and Malkin to win cups.


----------



## cc

Whether he likes it or not, Canucks will play him in the middle. He'll likely not be taking faceoffs for awhile though.


----------



## DeltaSwede

hmm..

It's odd..

I remember Elias Pettersson playing at center for an entire season for Timrå.. last season.

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's JasGripen hating away again.  

I'm sure Pettersson will end up playing down the middle of the ice. Nice that he can do an incredible job on the wing though. Can't complain.

Against the Czechs i was really impressed with his defensive game. Something that's never really brought up. The stat sheet is always too shiny to think about other aspects.


----------



## IComeInPeace

If he stays at 168 pounds, sure he could end up playing the wing in the NHL...

But he’s already gained 7-8 pounds since the draft. That’s a pretty good indicator he should easily be able to get to at least 185-190, in which case he will most definitely end up playing center.


----------



## Knight53




----------



## Lexus

Better view of the goal.


----------



## Knucklehead

ijuka said:


> If they wanted him to develop as a C, he wouldn't be playing W for Växjö.




Not true at all. Its common to put a young undersized center on the wing until he fills out a bit and I expect him to play more center next year


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

DeltaSwede said:


> hmm..
> 
> It's odd..
> 
> I remember Elias Pettersson playing at center for an entire season for Timrå.. last season.
> 
> Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's JasGripen hating away again.
> 
> I'm sure Pettersson will end up playing down the middle of the ice. Nice that he can do an incredible job on the wing though. Can't complain.
> 
> Against the Czechs i was really impressed with his defensive game. Something that's never really brought up. The stat sheet is always too shiny to think about other aspects.



....What did I "hate" on now? DDR stated that people have an obsession with centers, I argued that C's tends to win you championships. Some of you nucks fans are so sensitive.


----------



## Keep Sorokin Me Babe

I thought he was invisible at even strength prior to today; he made some nice plays in this game including a pretty goal. I'd like to see more dominating ES shifts for a player who is in his final eligible WJC, but if he keeps improving then he'll be ready for the real test in the knockout stages.


----------



## dellzor

That goal was nasty


----------



## vcanuck

Best player in the draft 


triggered Hischier fans in 3...2..1


----------



## cc

Hopefully he's overcome his cold. He's playing with a top center finally so he should look better for future games


----------



## gretskidoo

Ekbladder Infection said:


> I thought he was invisible at even strength prior to today; he made some nice plays in this game including a pretty goal. I'd like to see more dominating ES shifts for a player who is in his final eligible WJC, but if he keeps improving then he'll be ready for the real test in the knockout stages.



It's not a coincidence that removing your 4th line center from the 1st line immediately makes the 1st line look good.

Having Lindstrom out there on the 1st line is worse than being on the PK. Only half joking.


----------



## DDRhockey

gretskidoo said:


> It's not a coincidence that removing your 4th line center from the 1st line immediately makes the 1st line look good.
> 
> Having Lindstrom out there on the 1st line is worse than being on the PK. Only half joking.



how did lindstrom made the team? He has no redeeming qualities.


----------



## Orca Smash

Ekbladder Infection said:


> I thought he was invisible at even strength prior to today; he made some nice plays in this game including a pretty goal. I'd like to see more dominating ES shifts for a player who is in his final eligible WJC, but if he keeps improving then he'll be ready for the real test in the knockout stages.




The real test will be continuing to dominate his season in the Swedish elite league and playoffs.


----------



## member 105785

DDRhockey said:


> how did lindstrom made the team? He has no redeeming qualities.




his dad is a hockey puck


----------



## lawrence

dellzor said:


> That goal was nasty






vcanuck said:


> Best player in the draft
> 
> 
> triggered Hischier fans in 3...2..1




The funny thing is, that title is shared by at least 5 other players in this draft. No joke.


----------



## Canucks LB

Ekbladder Infection said:


> I thought he was invisible at even strength prior to today; he made some nice plays in this game including a pretty goal. I'd like to see more dominating ES shifts for a player who is in his final eligible WJC, but if he keeps improving then he'll be ready for the real test in the knockout stages.



This is called being nitpicky, hes leading the tourny in points. Atm lol


----------



## JFG

Lucbourdon said:


> This is called being nitpicky, hes leading the tourny in points. Atm lol



Where can I see the stats leaders?


----------



## helax

JFG said:


> Where can I see the stats leaders?



WM20


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Pettersson playing with the flu. Clearly below his usual level. Flubbing on one timers, a bit slower with decisions/puck movement.

And yet somehow, leading the tourney in scoring still.


----------



## eviohh26

We are not worthy!!!


----------



## LemonSauceD

hopefully we finish bottom 5 in the standings.

grab Zadina unless we draft 1st overall.

Zadina/Pettersson/Boeser

?????

profit.


----------



## FrankGallagher

Nucky101 said:


> hopefully we finish bottom 5 in the standings.
> 
> grab Zadina unless we draft 1st overall.
> 
> Zadina/Pettersson/Boeser
> 
> ?????
> 
> profit.



Why are people so sure that Pettersson projects as a centre?


----------



## JimboA

Elias Pettersson said:


> Pettersson playing with the flu. Clearly below his usual level. Flubbing on one timers, a bit slower with decisions/puck movement.
> 
> And yet somehow, leading the tourney in scoring still.



Flu? I thought it was just a cold.


----------



## M2Beezy

IComeInPeace said:


> If he stays at 168 pounds, sure he could end up playing the wing in the NHL...
> 
> But he’s already gained 7-8 pounds since the draft. That’s a pretty good indicator he should easily be able to get to at least 185-190, in which case he will most definitely end up playing center.



Agreed. Hes gotta keep at the gym and hopefully for start of next year at 180 and if not maybe in the AHL to start the season


----------



## BrockBesnar

JimboA said:


> Flu? I thought it was just a cold.



Yes I had heard cold the other day but commentators also mentioned he was close to missing the game before this one so I have no idea.
Also not sure of accuracy of this reporter: 

But still even a small cold can be a bit annoying and throw off timing for slap shots and energy level.


----------



## lawrence

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Agreed. Hes gotta keep at the gym and hopefully for start of next year at 180 and if not maybe in the AHL to start the season




Didn’t one of the commentators say he was 175 during his previous game ?




BrockBesnar said:


> Yes I had heard cold the other day but commentators also mentioned he was close to missing the game before this one so I have no idea.
> Also not sure of accuracy of this reporter:
> 
> But still even a small cold can be a bit annoying and throw off timing for slap shots and energy level.





Well that’s insane that he’s battling the flu while making hockey look easy. Unreal


----------



## member 105785

BrockBesnar said:


> Yes I had heard cold the other day but commentators also mentioned he was close to missing the game before this one so I have no idea.
> Also not sure of accuracy of this reporter:
> 
> But still even a small cold can be a bit annoying and throw off timing for slap shots and energy level.





Dhaliwal is pretty credible


----------



## JimboA

delete


----------



## PittsburghHustlers

Amazing shot.


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid




----------



## lawrence

PittsburghHustlers said:


> Amazing shot.





that's a Brock Boeser caliber shot.


----------



## M2Beezy

lawrence said:


> that's a Brock Boeser caliber shot.



Thats what i thought too when I saw it


----------



## M2Beezy

DownGoesMcDavid said:


>




Yeah too bad that guy couldnt finish the tap in what an effort by Peetey


----------



## vcanuck

Was free willie d coaching the Swedes? 13 minutes for Elite Petersson?!


----------



## rickardr

vcanuck said:


> Was free willie d coaching the Swedes? 13 minutes for Elite Petersson?!



TOI was 19:09 

SWE vs USA


----------



## besser

Never mind ...


----------



## lawrence

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Yeah too bad that guy couldnt finish the tap in what an effort by Peetey




Countless times with a similar play but his teamate missed. Would have had like 5 more assists. 



vcanuck said:


> Was free willie d coaching the Swedes? 13 minutes for Elite Petersson?!




The site has updating issues. It’s corrected now but earlier when I was looking at it it showed 32 minutes of ice time for Pettersson, lol.


----------



## VictorLustig

Just imagine Pettersson with 20 pounds more on his body and the ability to hold on to the puck in the offensive zone, he'd be unstoppable in this tournament. He already has the smarts and compete level to do well in traffic.

Has to get those one-timers going though.


----------



## Love




----------



## markog

He just scored for his club in Swedish league.


----------



## elitepete

Is he playing C?


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

travis scott said:


> Is he playing C?



Yes


----------



## Love

travis scott said:


> Is he playing C?




Really glad he's been playing centre the last few games with Vaxjo. I still wish he would've played C at the WJC but whatever. Even aside from my Canuck bias and desire for Pettersson to develop, I just thought it would've made Sweden a better team having a 1-2 centre punch of Elias Pettersson and Lias Andersson rather than having them on the same line.


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

After returning from WJC
Pettersson has 3 goals in 2.5 games


----------



## Szechwan

Jabba The Hutton said:


>





His two goals from today. Doesn't look like switching to Centre has slowed him down much at all


----------



## thelittlecoon

Szechwan said:


> His two goals from today. Doesn't look like switching to Centre has slowed him down much at all



He was also 8/13 on the draw


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Why didn't he make the Olympic team?


----------



## nowhereman

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Why didn't he make the Olympic team?



I honestly don't think there's a defensible answer. Probably politics, to be honest. The kid is leading the SHL in scoring and will likely be in the NHL next year, which is more than any forward on that team can say.


----------



## lawrence

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Why didn't he make the Olympic team?




apparently Sweden will add 2 more forwards to the roster on a later date. 

But at this point, not expecting him to make it. No CAnuck fan will hold their breath on this one. Most of them want him to take the scoring title actually, lol Weird, not having your highest producing player while playing with plugs on your team in in your home professional league not make it. It's a head scratcher like when Hedman got cut from the 2014 olympic team. 

But anyone that follows Swedish hockey know why he might not have make it? Or might have a reason? maybe he's too young? maybe "not ready"? He's been playing against men for 2 seasons now.


----------



## nowhereman

lawrence said:


> But anyone that follows Swedish hockey know why he might not have make it? Or might have a reason? *maybe he's too young? maybe "not ready"?* He's been playing against men for 2 seasons now.



The thing is, one of the forwards rumoured for those last two spots is Lias Andersson. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find too many hockey people who think he's had a better season and has progressed more than Pettersson.


----------



## lawrence

nowhereman said:


> The thing is, one of the forwards rumoured for those last two spots is Lias Andersson. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find too many hockey people who think he's had a better season and has progressed more than Pettersson.




interesting. What is your source?


----------



## nowhereman

lawrence said:


> interesting. What is your source?



From the Van Courier Pass It To Bulis Blog: "National team general manager Johan Garpenlöv says that four players are up for those two spots: Lias Andersson, Robert Nilsson, Andreas Engqvist and André Petersson."

Team Sweden leaves Elias Pettersson off of Olympic roster


----------



## lawrence

nowhereman said:


> From the Van Courier Pass It To Bulis Blog: "National team general manager Johan Garpenlöv says that four players are up for those two spots: Lias Andersson, Robert Nilsson, Andreas Engqvist and André Petersson."
> 
> Team Sweden leaves Elias Pettersson off of Olympic roster




I feel sorry for the last 2 guys that don't make it. Hate it when teams do this. Just name them already.


----------



## gretskidoo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Why didn't he make the Olympic team?



Our national team staff is beyond idiotic basically every year.

Remember that they left out Hedman last time.


----------



## elitepete

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Why didn't he make the Olympic team?



The management and coaching of team Sweden are as dumb as a box of bricks.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

nowhereman said:


> I honestly don't think there's a defensible answer. Probably politics, to be honest. *The kid is leading the SHL in scoring *and will likely be in the NHL next year, which is more than any forward on that team can say.



Nu he isnt

Maybe the coaching staff think that hes a good shooter on the half boards on the PP, which he is, but that his game is lacking in other areas. If he'll be in the NHL next year, the Canucks would be rushing him. He needs to mature and grow.


----------



## nowhereman

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Nu he isnt
> 
> Maybe the coaching staff think that hes a good shooter on the half boards on the PP, which he is, but that his game is lacking in other areas. If he'll be in the NHL next year, the Canucks would be rushing him. He needs to mature and grow.



Sorry, _was_ leading prior to the World Juniors, where he missed more than a handful of games and lost his lead. 

That said, I don't think a kid can put up such a historic season by just being a "good shooter on the half boards". Yes, that's his office but his game is far more well-rounded then you're giving him credit for.


----------



## felixpettersson

2 goals so far in tonight's game. Anyone has any video/gifs?


----------



## Drew Doubty

2 goals today, 37 pts in 31 games. Had a couple goals in Vaxjo's most recent champions league game to take them to the finals as well but that doesn't show up in his point total for Vaxjo


----------



## BlueGreen

Drew Doubty said:


> 2 goals today, 37 pts in 31 games. Had a couple goals in Vaxjo's most recent champions league game to take them to the finals as well but that doesn't show up in his point total for Vaxjo



It’s was 1 goal and 1 primary assist today I think. He now has 38 points in 31 games and has been playing centre since he returned from the world juniors. This kid is a stud.


----------



## Drew Doubty

BlueGreen said:


> It’s was 1 goal and 1 primary assist today I think. He now has 38 points in 31 games and has been playing centre since he returned from the world juniors. This kid is a stud.




Ah they must have changed the scoring since I last checked, still good production after a lil slump


----------



## Love

BlueGreen said:


> It’s was 1 goal and 1 primary assist today I think. He now has 38 points in 31 games and has been playing centre since he returned from the world juniors. This kid is a stud.




He was playing C before the WJC I believe he started playing centre about 5 games prior to the WJC. Prior to that he was on the wing.


----------



## BlueGreen

He just scored a beautiful wrap around goal in the first period of today’s game. 39 points now with 2 more periods to go.


----------



## Love

He could go pointless for the rest of the season (12 games) and still have a more productive draft +1 season than Nicklas Backstrom. Just think about that...


----------



## BlueGreen

Pettersson scores again. 2 goals so far this game through 2 periods. He now has 40 points on the season. 1 more period to go to complete the hatty.


----------



## BlueGreen

It took 45 games for Backstrom to reach 40 points in his D+1 season. Pettersson did it in 32 and he ain’t done yet. This kid is a superstar.


----------



## stampedingviking

BlueGreen said:


> It took 45 games for Backstrom to reach 40 points in his D+1 season. Pettersson did it in 32 and he ain’t done yet. *This kid is a superstar*.



Could be, let's not count our chickens just yet.


----------



## duplo




----------



## whitstifier

duplo said:


>





What the hell was 55 doing there?


----------



## Elias Pettersson

He's really good


----------



## gretskidoo

duplo said:


>




Ah, the player that supposedly can neither skate or shoot the puck manages to do both. Weird.


----------



## eviohh26

f***ing A RAY!


----------



## Lexus

GIF


----------



## clay

Lexus said:


> GIF





A power move and a lethal one timer definitely weren't in any scouting reports pre-draft.


----------



## M2Beezy

clay said:


> A power move and a lethal one timer definitely weren't in any scouting reports pre-draft.



Yeppers

Pretty much a lock at 2nd overall in a 2017 redraft


----------



## elitepete

He will be in the NHL next year, guy is amazing.


----------



## ManUtdTobbe

He really didn't have the slapper last season, his shot was his one glaring weakness... Must have spent all summer working on his shot because now it's amazing.

He'd be #1 in a redraft and he should have been #1 on the draft floor.


----------



## Tomas W

And this guy got left out a non NHL Olympics for Sweden, can you believe it? I cant. Well, apparently the Swe coach is a moron, sadly.


----------



## VictorLustig

ManUtdTobbe said:


> He really didn't have the slapper last season, his shot was his one glaring weakness... Must have spent all summer working on his shot because now it's amazing.
> 
> He'd be #1 in a redraft and he should have been #1 on the draft floor.




He's always had a very good wrist shot but I haven't seen that one-timer before this season.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

How the hell can you leave a player like this out from the olympic roster? I can't understand that...


----------



## Hokinaittii

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> How the hell can you leave a player like this out from the olympic roster? I can't understand that...



The Swedes must be stacked as hell.


----------



## DDRhockey

Hokinaittii said:


> The Swedes must be stacked as hell.



Lol we are not


----------



## M2Beezy

ManUtdTobbe said:


> He really didn't have the slapper last season, his shot was his one glaring weakness... Must have spent all summer working on his shot because now it's amazing.
> 
> He'd be #1 in a redraft and he should have been #1 on the draft floor.



WOW bold statement i had him at #2 behind Hischier but i guess its pretty dam close. Cant wait to see what he can do next year


----------



## ManUtdTobbe

I had Elias Pettersson at #1 since November 2016, never once have i reconsidered that.


----------



## NotProkofievian

ManUtdTobbe said:


> I had Elias Pettersson at #1 since November 2016, never once have i reconsidered that.




I almost feel bad having had him at 4.


----------



## lawrence

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> WOW bold statement* i had him at #2 behind Hischier *but i guess its pretty dam close. Cant wait to see what he can do next year




no you didn't ! you wanted Cody Glass and we all know it.


----------



## M2Beezy

lawrence said:


> no you didn't ! you wanted Cody Glass and we all know it.



At the time but not since Sep/Oct bub. Do you have the same opinions you always had? Even as a child?? Take a seat and pay attention for the first time in your bitter Benning loving life


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Can we talk about the fact he equalled Backstroms record in 13 fewer games?


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> Can we talk about the fact he equalled Backstroms record in 13 fewer games?



Could we also skip that little part about the SHLs drop in quality compared to when Bäckströms 40 p meant he finished 22nd in the SHL, and that Elias sits at 6th with his 40p?


----------



## VictorLustig

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Could we also skip that little part about the SHLs drop in quality compared to when Bäckströms 40 p meant he finished 22nd in the SHL, and that Elias sits at 6th with his 40p?




So what you are saying is that the top players scored a lot more points 10 years ago? There must have been a big drop in quality in the NHL as well then..


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

VictorLustig said:


> So what you are saying is that the top players scored a lot more points 10 years ago? There must have been a big drop in quality in the NHL as well then..



For starters, we had fewer swedish players in the NHL, the NLA, and the KHL didnt exist - therefore, the SHL had more quality players in 07 than it does today. If you take a look and see which players had more points than Bäckström compared to those that is ahead of Pettersson, you would understand what I mean.

In this thread, more so than others, context seem to be lost among a lot of posters. Im not saying that Elias wont become a good player or that hes not doing well, I really hopes he becomes a 1C in the NHL, but when someone wants to talk about how impressive of a season hes having and compares him to a player that played in another era, you have to take other facts than amount of points in to consideration.


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

Fredrik Bremberg was top scorer with 64 points in 53 games in 06/07.
Was the SHL better back then? Sure. Was it a lot better? No.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Fredrik Bremberg was top scorer with 64 points in 53 games in 06/07.
> Was the SHL better back then? Sure. Was it a lot better? No.



I see a lot of players, including Bremberg, that are viewed as some teams best players ever, so yeah, I would say that it was. The fact that we have 26 players in the KHL, that would for sure be some of the better players in the SHL today, compared to 0 players back in 07, plus this:

Number of swedes in the NHL 17/18: 88
Number of swedes in the AHL 17/18: 57

Number of swedes in the NHL 06/07: 51
Number of swedes in the AHL 06/07: 24

Those are pretty huge numbers that clearly shows that the SHL are taking a beating these days, How can you not see this?


----------



## VictorLustig

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> I see a lot of players, including Bremberg, that are viewed as some teams best players ever, so yeah, I would say that it was. The fact that we have 26 players in the KHL, that would for sure be some of the better players in the SHL today, compared to 0 players back in 07, plus this:
> 
> Number of swedes in the NHL 17/18: 88
> Number of swedes in the AHL 17/18: 57
> 
> Number of swedes in the NHL 06/07: 51
> Number of swedes in the AHL 06/07: 24
> 
> Those are pretty huge numbers that clearly shows that the SHL are taking a beating these days, How can you not see this?




Our WJC teams did not medal even once between 97-07. We simply did not have any players good enough to send to the NHL. And sure, sending players to the KHL hurts but many of them are replaced by top AHL players these days. That was not possible until they revoked the rule of signing a maximum of 3 non EU players.


----------



## clay

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Could we also skip that little part about the SHLs drop in quality compared to when Bäckströms 40 p meant he finished 22nd in the SHL, and that Elias sits at 6th with his 40p?




This is awful logic. Pettersson has 40 points in 13 fewer games than Backstrom. If Backstrom had 40 points through his first 32 games in that year he would have been sitting a lot higher than 22nd at that point in the season.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

VictorLustig said:


> Our WJC teams did not medal even once between 97-07. We simply did not have any players good enough to send to the NHL.



Sure, thats relevant, but the veterans playing back in 07 are still better than the likes of Palushaj and Rynos today


----------



## VictorLustig

I would also add that Bäckström probably was a better player than Pettersson at the same age. As prospects I think they are fairly equal though. Pettersson has a lot of room for improvement still.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Could we also skip that little part about the SHLs drop in quality compared to when Bäckströms 40 p meant he finished 22nd in the SHL, and that Elias sits at 6th with his 40p?



So what you're saying is that the SHL is a lower scoring league now and harder to score in and Pettersson is much more impressive being 6th. Nice!


----------



## cc

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Could we also skip that little part about the SHLs drop in quality compared to when Bäckströms 40 p meant he finished 22nd in the SHL, and that Elias sits at 6th with his 40p?






Elias Pettersson said:


> So what you're saying is that the SHL is a lower scoring league now and harder to score in and Pettersson is much more impressive being 6th. Nice!




Agreed, it was a higher scoring league before so technically, that should make EP's accomplishment more impressive.


----------



## CloutierForVezina

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Could we also skip that little part about the SHLs drop in quality compared to when Bäckströms 40 p meant he finished 22nd in the SHL, and that Elias sits at 6th with his 40p?




This is one of the silliest posts I've ever read.

Are you seriously quoting the numbers of players who hit 40P after a full season, and comparing it to the number of players who hit 40P in a partial season? 

By your logic there's 0 80P players in the NHL this year, so the NHL must be a terrible league filled with terrible players.

You need to use points per game if you're going to compare a partial season to a full season. Backstrom put up 0.889 points per game, good enough to tie him for 18th best for points per game in his year. 0.889 points per game would be good enough for 13th best this year.

18th to 13th sounds like a lot smaller of a jump than 22nd to 6th, doesn't it?

Want to take a guess where Pettersson's 1.250 points per game would rank in either season?


----------



## DDRhockey

VictorLustig said:


> I would also add that Bäckström probably was a better player than Pettersson at the same age. As prospects I think they are fairly equal though. Pettersson has a lot of room for improvement still.



he actually wasn't. Backstrom also had a so-so WJC at same age.


----------



## VictorLustig

DDRhockey said:


> he actually wasn't. Backstrom also had a so-so WJC at same age.




Okay. Bäckström was already a world champion at Pettersson's age.


----------



## Drew Doubty

VictorLustig said:


> I would also add that Bäckström probably was a better player than Pettersson at the same age. As prospects I think they are fairly equal though. Pettersson has a lot of room for improvement still.




I think that what you are saying might carry more weight if Petterson and Backstrom had similar seasons, but what Petterson is doing is blowing Backstroms season out of the water. If he continues at the same pace he'll have 55 pts where Backstrom had 40. Sure, the SHL might have dipped a bit in quality, and Pettersson might have slightly better linemates, or maybe Backstrom was a bit more well rounded. None of that discredits Petterssons potentially record breaking season. Also, if he doesn't turn into a superstar, that still doesn't discredit what he did this season.


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

clay said:


> This is awful logic. Pettersson has 40 points in 13 fewer games than Backstrom. If Backstrom had 40 points through his first 32 games in that year he would have been sitting a lot higher than 22nd at that point in the season.



Haha wow, didnt even think about that 
Lets see him get out of this by ignoring it.


----------



## King In The North

Coming to N.A. next year? Canucks' future top line will start to take shape.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Haha wow, didnt even think about that
> Lets see him get out of this by ignoring it.



Thats right, though. Ofc Petterssons PPG is higher, and thats impressive. I was more pointing out the fact that the SHL is a worse than it is today and that there are less competition, and since posters like EliasPettersson, aka ’Mr subjective’ aka ’Trump’ calling stuff he dosnt agree with ”fake news”, only care about points and wants to highligt Petterssons season as ”better” than Bäckströms, I was pointing out the less talanted competition that Elias has. I know its an impopular opinion to go against the current, but this is an online forum. If you want biased opinions and not hear out people that disagrees, go read Aftonbladet


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

I also like how some of you are just disregarding the facts regarding the lesser talent pool that exists in the SHL today compared to before, but I guess that dosnt fit your agenda


----------



## DDRhockey

VictorLustig said:


> Okay. Bäckström was already a world champion at Pettersson's age.



With a whoppin 0 points


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

CloutierForVezina said:


> This is one of the silliest posts I've ever read.
> 
> Are you seriously quoting the numbers of players who hit 40P after a full season, and comparing it to the number of players who hit 40P in a partial season?
> 
> By your logic there's 0 80P players in the NHL this year, so the NHL must be a terrible league filled with terrible players.
> 
> You need to use points per game if you're going to compare a partial season to a full season. Backstrom put up 0.889 points per game, good enough to tie him for 18th best for points per game in his year. 0.889 points per game would be good enough for 13th best this year.
> 
> 18th to 13th sounds like a lot smaller of a jump than 22nd to 6th, doesn't it?
> 
> Want to take a guess where Pettersson's 1.250 points per game would rank in either season?



Sure, but I was pointing out the level of competition the two had/have. Im aware that Elias PPG are higher atm. Sigh


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

DDRhockey said:


> With a whoppin 0 points



Still. Theres a reason Elias wasnt picked for the Olympics. Bäckström wouldve been on the team. Sure, call out Grönborg if you want and call me cray cray, but I know one cant argue with DDR and EliasPetterson aka ”Trump jr”


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

No one is denying Bäckström was a better prospect, and Pettersson will likely never reach his level. No need to cherry pick stats though.

Also dont speak about other posters ”agenda” when it is very clear you have one of yourself.


----------



## CloutierForVezina

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Sure, but I was pointing out the level of competition the two had/have. Im aware that Elias PPG are higher atm. Sigh




Pointing out what? That there are more 40p players in a full season than in 75% of a season? 

You're not even making sense. This is basic logic.

You want to judge a league by # of 40 point players, you have to make sure you're talking about the same number of games played otherwise you're just spouting meaningless gibberish.

# of 40p players in NHL 2016-2017: 166
# of 40p players in NHL 2017-2018: 45

What a useless piece of information.


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> At the time but not since Sep/Oct bub. Do you have the same opinions you always had? Even as a child?? Take a seat and pay attention for the first time in your bitter Benning loving life




So you didn't have him at #2 behind Hischier then.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

CloutierForVezina said:


> Pointing out what? That there are more 40p players in a full season than in 75% of a season?
> 
> You're not even making sense. This is basic logic.
> 
> You want to judge a league by # of 40 point players, you have to make sure you're talking about the same number of games played otherwise you're just spouting meaningless gibberish.
> 
> # of 40p players in NHL 2016-2017: 166
> # of 40p players in NHL 2017-2018: 45
> 
> What a useless piece of information.



What are you even talking about? Haha, your the one not making sense here


----------



## clay

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> What are you even talking about? Haha, your the one not making sense here




He is making perfect sense. Your 40 point argument on the previous page was complete nonsense.


----------



## farshi

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> No one is denying Bäckström was a better prospect, and Pettersson will likely never reach his level. No need to cherry pick stats though.
> 
> Also dont speak about other posters ”agenda” when it is very clear you have one of yourself.



I'd argue they're extremely comparable prospects actually? one was picked 4th the other 5th and both had very good D+1 seasons in the SHL (with elias having the better one).


----------



## Elias Pettersson

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Thats right, though. Ofc Petterssons PPG is higher, and thats impressive. I was more pointing out the fact that the SHL is a worse than it is today and that there are less competition, and since posters like EliasPettersson, aka ’Mr subjective’ aka ’Trump’ calling stuff he dosnt agree with ”fake news”, only care about points and wants to highligt Petterssons season as ”better” than Bäckströms, I was pointing out the less talanted competition that Elias has. I know its an impopular opinion to go against the current, but this is an online forum. If you want biased opinions and not hear out people that disagrees, go read Aftonbladet



I'm the most unbiased poster on this site. I know it, you know it, and everyone around here knows it


----------



## ManUtdTobbe

The only reason Elias Pettersson wasn't picked for the Olympics is because Team Sweden made a huge mistake because of size and/or age bias... He's easily among the 14 best Swedish F's in Europe, it's not even close.


----------



## Brock Boeser Laser Show

SHL might be slightly weaker than it was in the past but I think the impact of Swedish players leaving is overstated. The players that leave to the AHL or NHL are being replaced by north american imports, many of which that have produced at the NHL or AHL level to some extent. If you plunked Pettersson into the SHL 20 years ago he would still produce at a high level and I don't understand how someone can think a few players here or there would somehow change that.


----------



## ulvvf

I do think Pettersson is on the same level as Backstrom at the same age if not better. But that do not mean he will be as good. There are still many obstacles to overcome, but the talent is absolutly there. 

Btw he should have been a lock in the olympics, not many on that team is better than him if any.


----------



## Oliewud

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> No one is denying Bäckström was a better prospect, *and Pettersson will likely never reach his level*. No need to cherry pick stats though.
> 
> Also dont speak about other posters ”agenda” when it is very clear you have one of yourself.




Why do you say that?


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> No one is denying Bäckström was a better prospect, and Pettersson will likely never reach his level. No need to cherry pick stats though.
> 
> Also dont speak about other posters ”agenda” when it is very clear you have one of yourself.



my only "agenda" here is people not putting things into context, not the player Elias Pettersson


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> I'm the most unbiased poster on this site. I know it, you know it, and everyone around here knows it



yeah, sure


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

clay said:


> He is making perfect sense. Your 40 point argument on the previous page was complete nonsense.



A poster wanted to wine things up b/c Elias Pettersson eclipsed Bäckströms 40 points in fewer games. My intention (my intet at least) was to put their point totals (atm) into context. Since the SHL is worse than back in 07 (and yes, previous poster, it is) I was merely pointing out that Bäckström put up those numbers in a much harder league and environment, and that I dont think that Elias would have those numbers if he played in the SHL back in 07. I referred to their positions (stats), #22 and #6 (yes, I know that EP has a higher PPG and its not finished yet) to show what kind of players Bäckström had to compete with, opposed EPs competitiors


----------



## 42

So many assume he'll be in the NHL next season. What, if anything, might stand in his way? Small stature? The Nucks might want to see him gain some AHL experience first, no need to rush him so he might play a full season in the AHL.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

I think the only thing that will prevent him from dominating the NHL is JAS 39 Gripen


----------



## Mergatroidskittle

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Thats right, though. Ofc Petterssons PPG is higher, and thats impressive. I was more pointing out the fact that the SHL is a worse than it is today and that there are less competition, and since posters like EliasPettersson, aka ’Mr subjective’ aka ’Trump’ calling stuff he dosnt agree with ”fake news”, only care about points and wants to highligt Petterssons season as ”better” than Bäckströms, I was pointing out the less talanted competition that Elias has. I know its an *impopular* opinion to go against the current, but this is an online forum. If you want biased opinions and not hear out people that disagrees, go read Aftonbladet



As a Canucks fan the bolded might be the most offensive thing you’ve said....


----------



## M2Beezy

ScottishCanuck said:


> So you didn't have him at #2 behind Hischier then.



For the last five or so months yes

1 Hischier 
2 Pettersson 

Prior to last draft i had him at 5 bpa. Now at 2nd


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> I think the only thing that will prevent him from dominating the NHL is JAS 39 Gripen



Well, its not new to anyone that you overhype the guy, so if you think my posts regarding his achievements is all that stands against him ”from dominating the NHL”, none would be surprised.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Mergatroidskittle said:


> As a Canucks fan the bolded might be the most offensive thing you’ve said....



Why though


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> my only "agenda" here is people not putting things into context, not the player Elias Pettersson




Yet you are taking numbers completely out of context.


----------



## Willy Stylez

SHL isnt as good as it used to be honestly. Elias is the real deal though, great prospect. Just need some more strength.


----------



## Grub

I think for Petterson he will get all the opportunity to make the team next year. If not most likely he'll start in the AHL like Lias Andersson.

Btw how is Lias Andersson already in the AHL? Did he have an out clause from his SHL team?


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Yet you are taking numbers completely out of context.



Nope, some of you are just misinterpreting them (could be my fault, english isnt my first language). I guess what confuses people the most is that I used Bäckströms 40 points in a full season vs EPs 40p in 30-something games and where that landed them in the standings. The point I wanted to make was that it was harder for Bäckström to get to those 40 points that the poster "EliasPettersson" was so up in arms about, shouting across the globe that "we need to talk about EP passing Bäckström point-totals in fewer games!!!!!". Thats also why I wanted to point out that altough Bäckström had a great season, he still ended up #22 in the point standings, behind guys like Jönsson, Davidsson, Brendl etc who were really good at the time. The talent pool in the SHL back in 07 far exceeded the 17/18 version of the SHL, in my opinion. EP have Ryno and Palushaj in front of him...and Lasch? I dunno about you, but to me those are lesser players than the ones playing back in 07. 

All that said, EPs season is impressive, very impressive, and I truly hope that he succeeds. I dont, however, think him "dominating the NHL" all depends on my comments on an online-forum, like some others..


----------



## ManUtdTobbe

Grub said:


> I think for Petterson he will get all the opportunity to make the team next year. If not most likely he'll start in the AHL like Lias Andersson.
> 
> Btw how is Lias Andersson already in the AHL? Did he have an out clause from his SHL team?




Lias Andersson was on loan from NYR to Frölunda, NYR decided to keep him in NA after the WJC.


----------



## Askel

Meh....


----------



## Mergatroidskittle

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Why though



Well if you are Portuguese I guess it’s fine but it’s not an English word as far as I know.... lol


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Mergatroidskittle said:


> Well if you are Portuguese I guess it’s fine but it’s not an English word as far as I know.... lol



Oh my, the horror


----------



## DDRhockey

If shl isnt as goood these days how come our junior talents never do what pettersson is doing. The fact it was 12 years ago since backstrom did it makes me think shl isnt that bad.


----------



## Snowsii

DDRhockey said:


> If shl isnt as goood these days how come our junior talents never do what pettersson is doing. The fact it was 12 years ago since backstrom did it makes me think shl isnt that bad.



How many Bäckströms quality players have come out from Sweden, since him? And i find it really odd, as Sweden produces so much really good defenders..


----------



## DDRhockey

Snowsii said:


> How many Bäckströms quality players have come out from Sweden, since him? And i find it really odd, as Sweden produces so much really good defenders..



Filip forsberg did not out up thesw numbers even in 2nd tier


----------



## Snowsii

DDRhockey said:


> Filip forsberg did not out up thesw numbers even in 2nd tier



I'm sorry, but i dont agree Forsberg being Bäcströms tier. Pettersson sure looks like being there.


----------



## cc

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Nope, some of you are just misinterpreting them (could be my fault, english isnt my first language). I guess what confuses people the most is that I used Bäckströms 40 points in a full season vs EPs 40p in 30-something games and where that landed them in the standings. The point I wanted to make was that it was harder for Bäckström to get to those 40 points that the poster "EliasPettersson" was so up in arms about, shouting across the globe that "we need to talk about EP passing Bäckström point-totals in fewer games!!!!!". Thats also why I wanted to point out that altough Bäckström had a great season, he still ended up #22 in the point standings, behind guys like Jönsson, Davidsson, Brendl etc who were really good at the time. The talent pool in the SHL back in 07 far exceeded the 17/18 version of the SHL, in my opinion. EP have Ryno and Palushaj in front of him...and Lasch? I dunno about you, but to me those are lesser players than the ones playing back in 07.
> 
> All that said, EPs season is impressive, very impressive, and I truly hope that he succeeds. I dont, however, think him "dominating the NHL" all depends on my comments on an online-forum, like some others..




I see your point... however more talent in the league does not mean harder to score. With less talent, more teams would have to resort to playing a more defensively sound system which would make it harder to score on them thereby making EP's production more impressive.


----------



## BlueGreen

Pettersson scored today to pick up his 41st point of the season. He now holds the record for most points in a season by a junior in the SHL. Nicklaus Backstrom held the previous record of 40 points in 45 games. EP just notched his 41st point in 33. This kid is a stud, suck it haters.


----------



## Nucker101

Nifty Willy said:


> SHL isnt as good as it used to be honestly. Elias is the real deal though, great prospect. Just need some more strength.



It probably isn’t as good, but it’s also lower scoring than even 15 years ago so I think those things balance each other out a bit.


----------



## hallonskal

Nucker101 said:


> It probably isn’t as good, but it’s also lower scoring than even 15 years ago so I think those things balance each other out a bit.




It is actually not that big difference in goals scored in todays SHL compared to how it was 10-15 years ago, some years had lower scoring than today and other had higher scoring. Scoring is also up by quite a bit this season compared to how it has been for the last 6-7 years (except for 2015/2016).

GPG for SHL:

2017/2018: 5.33

As an example this is how GPG in SHL was 12,13 and 14 years ago:

2005/2006: 5.21
2004/2005: 5.66
2003/2004: 5.37


----------



## me2

Ferros said:


> It is actually not that big difference in goals scored in todays SHL compared to how it was 10-15 years ago, some years had lower scoring than today and other had higher scoring. Scoring is also up by quite a bit this season compared to how it has been for the last 6-7 years (except for 2015/2016).
> 
> GPG for SHL:
> 
> 2017/2018: 5.33
> 
> As an example this is how GPG in SHL was 12,13 and 14 years ago:
> 
> 2005/2006: 5.21
> 2004/2005: 5.66
> 2003/2004: 5.37



What was it for Backstrom's D+1?


----------



## hallonskal

me2 said:


> What was it for Backstrom's D+1?




5.58


----------



## VictorLustig

Beautiful read to stop the clearing attempt. He saw that puck coming miles away.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Ok back to actual discussiond Petterson seems to be doing just fine as a center


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> Can we talk about the fact he equalled Backstroms record in 13 fewer games?






Elias Pettersson said:


> Ok back to actual discussiond Petterson seems to be doing just fine as a center



You’re the one that wanted people to have this discussion, remember? B/c it didnt turn out the way you wanted (hugs, smiles, kisses and ever praising of your favorite prospect), you now wants to silence everyone and call out the ones that may have a different opinion than you, shouting stuff like ”Fake news!”. You remind me of someone


----------



## Willy Stylez

Nucker101 said:


> It probably isn’t as good, but it’s also lower scoring than even 15 years ago so I think those things balance each other out a bit.




Nah its not that much of a difference in scoring.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> You’re the one that wanted people to have this discussion, remember? B/c it didnt turn out the way you wanted (hugs, smiles, kisses and ever praising of your favorite prospect), you now wants to silence everyone and call out the ones that may have a different opinion than you, shouting stuff like ”Fake news!”. You remind me of someone



Actually you're the only one who doesnt like pettersson. And we all know youre salty as hell he's not on your team


----------



## Disappointed EP40

Elias Pettersson said:


> I think the only thing that will prevent him from dominating the NHL is JAS 39 Gripen




You've made zero points in any of your last half of dozen posts.

Why do you even bother?

He's making some points. Some good, some bad. Labelin' him a hater is absolute garbage nonsense.

As for Pettersson. We can just wait until next year then compare him to Backstrom.


----------



## Disappointed EP40

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> For the last five or so months yes
> 
> 1 Hischier
> 2 Pettersson
> 
> Prior to last draft i had him at 5 bpa. Now at 2nd




You made it sound like you had called Pettersson as the guy you wanted when the Canucks picked. You wanted Glass.

It's not shocking the moment your team picked him your reevaluation skewed so biased.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Catbug said:


> You devalue every discussion the more you type.



I am a tremendous contributor to this site . Its sad the fake news sources say otherwise


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

DDRhockey said:


> Are you on suicide watch in this thread considering how good pettersson is doing



Joking about suicide watch, huh? The fact that I constantly find myself on the opposite side of you in various arguments assures me that I'm not out to lunch every time. Thanks


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> Actually you're the only one who doesnt like pettersson. And we all know youre salty as hell he's not on your team



No, I just quoted you and made an argument since I don't think you're taking things in to account when you evaluate prospects, I have nothing against the player Elias Pettersson, only subjective, ignorant posters


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> I think we hurt the poor boy's feelings! Better give him some time to make up more fake news



^ How does anyone take anything this guy types serious?


----------



## Raccoon Jesus

42 said:


> So many assume he'll be in the NHL next season. What, if anything, might stand in his way? Small stature? The Nucks might want to see him gain some AHL experience first, no need to rush him so he might play a full season in the AHL.




I think that's a fair and important question but it looks like criticism of Pettersson is getting squelched. 

Guy is one of the most skilled prospects I've seen for sure and he's exciting, I can see why people are so high on him, but last time I saw him he fell down anytime someone sneezed hard in his direction. If he doesn't strengthen up I do see it as a significant hurdle. Wonder how big his pops is?


----------



## DDRhockey

Catbug said:


> You've made zero points in any of your last half of dozen posts.
> 
> Why do you even bother?
> 
> He's making some points. Some good, some bad. Labelin' him a hater is absolute garbage nonsense.
> 
> As for Pettersson. We can just wait until next year then compare him to Backstrom.



What is his good points again?


----------



## Disappointed EP40

DDRhockey said:


> What is his good points again?




Factor in the differences the league had between now and when Backstrom was in the league.

It's pretty much the only point he's brought up, but was immediately jumped on by everyone. One even dismissing him as a "hater" for pointing out something as simple as, there's more variables to consider. He didn't even say anything really bad about him.

You can go re-read the last couple pages yourself really.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> No, I just quoted you and made an argument since I don't think you're taking things in to account when you evaluate prospects, I have nothing against the player Elias Pettersson, only subjective, ignorant posters



Nope. WRONG again


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> Nope. WRONG again



How, though? Im sure you and DDR can figure something out <3


----------



## DDRhockey

Catbug said:


> Factor in the differences the league had between now and when Backstrom was in the league.
> 
> It's pretty much the only point he's brought up, but was immediately jumped on by everyone. One even dismissing him as a "hater" for pointing out something as simple as, there's more variables to consider. He didn't even say anything really bad about him.
> 
> You can go re-read the last couple pages yourself really.



Same amount of goals per game since backstrom broke into the league.

What is the magical difference again? We have more north americans playing in shl now.


----------



## DDRhockey

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> How, though? Im sure you and DDR can figure something out <3



You have been on petterssons case since last wjc because you think that wjc magically determines career success


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

DDRhockey said:


> You have been on petterssons case since last wjc because you think that wjc magically determines career success



I never said that it determined anything, only that it shows that he couldn't handle the lesser ice vs more aggressive opponents like Canada and the US, and he couldn't do that this year either. I'm not saying that it determines his whole career, just that hes not ready for the NHL <3


----------



## gretskidoo

Show us on the doll where Elias touched you.


----------



## DDRhockey

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> I never said that it determined anything, only that it shows that he couldn't handle the lesser ice vs more aggressive opponents like Canada and the US, and he couldn't do that this year either. I'm not saying that it determines his whole career, just that hes not ready for the NHL <3



So which swedish team has ever played well against canada in wjc? None


----------



## Elias Pettersson

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> I never said that it determined anything, only that it shows that he couldn't handle the lesser ice vs more aggressive opponents like Canada and the US, and he couldn't do that this year either. I'm not saying that it determines his whole career, just that hes not ready for the NHL <3



Brock Boeser can't handle the NHL because he was unable to score in wjc right? Nice. Solid arguments as usual


----------



## clay

JAS 39 Gripen has to be trolling? Up there with the worst most illogical posts I've ever seen on this site in my 12 plus years of visiting these boards.


----------



## Breakers

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> I never said that it determined anything, only that it shows that he couldn't handle the lesser ice vs more aggressive opponents like Canada and the US, and he couldn't do that this year either. I'm not saying that it determines his whole career, just that hes not ready for the NHL <3




He was very good against the US
He opened the scoring.
Your boy Mittelstadt was pointless.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Breakers said:


> He was very good against the US
> He had a opened the scoring.
> You're boy Mittelstadt was pointless.



This makes no sense at all


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

clay said:


> JAS 39 Gripen has to be trolling? Up there with the worst most illogical posts I've ever seen on this site in my 12 plus years of visiting these boards.



No, nucks fan, Im not trolling, Im stating facts and say that it would be a mistake to rush EP. He needs to mature.


----------



## Breakers

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> This makes no sense at all




of course it doesn't make sense to you.

Because it doesn't fit your narrative.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Elias Pettersson said:


> Brock Boeser can't handle the NHL because he was unable to score in wjc right? Nice. Solid arguments as usual



Brock Boeser also had his entire life up until he got to the NHL to get accustomed to the smaller ice surface and the NA game. Nice try though


----------



## GetFocht

Lol the other argument was that Boeser won't have the time or space to score with his shot. Also wouldn't be effective because his skating is not that good....


----------



## bobbyb2009

I am a Canucks fan, and I love this pick now. I love the potential, the skill, the IQ, and the impact this player can have in the future. And nobody can argue that what EP is doing this year in that league isn't spectacular. JAS 39 wouldn't or couldn't argue that either.

But just how spectacular is what everyone is debating? How long before he can have an NHL impact is being debated? Fair enough on both accounts?

There is zero doubt in my mind that this JAS 39 poster has some valid points. Ok, maybe not about the Backstrom SHL comparison directly, but the fact is, the lockout and other factors led to more Swedes staying in SHL for some time. Long before the lockout, Nilsson era, way less Swedes in the NHL- is it because there were less Swedes that were NHL capable, or that event capable stayed in Sweden for longer regardless (or a combination of both)?

I accept his argument that potentially more "relatively" players of the standard were in the SHL during that period. I think there is some validity to the idea that Daniel Rahimi types were not getting the minutes back then. But the counter to this piece of his argument is that scoring is not up, so unless scoring is distributed differently, what EP is doing is spectacular and can be compared, even favourably, to the other accomplishments.

However, I absolutely agree with JAS 39 that his balance and strength under pressure will not yet hold up to the NHL. He isn't Johnny God on skates, slipping and sliding in and out of gaps. He simply falls over/will get pushed over at this stage, a la Mason Raymond lite (and EP has a ways to go to be MayRay strong).

He has a long way to go still, but when he gets there, the boy is capable of being something really special. I am convinced that he needs time in north america rinks, he needs time to get stronger and heavier. Being 6' 2" and this weight and movement style, he has to change and also learn to deal with strong opponents differently. But he will, if they are patient and don't destroy the kid by putting him into a situation where he has to play against top pairing monsters and people who run him at every opportunity.

Can't we just celebrate the boy without getting upset when someone points out he still has to work on things?


----------



## DDRhockey

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Brock Boeser also had his entire life up until he got to the NHL to get accustomed to the smaller ice surface and the NA game. Nice try though



All euros has to adjust to smaller ice. Why is pettersson an exception?

Kent nilsson was afraid of the physical game in nhl yet he put up 132p in one season.

How did he score that many? His skill and hockeyiq.


----------



## stampedingviking

Catbug said:


> Factor in the differences the league had between now and when Backstrom was in the league.
> 
> It's pretty much the only point he's brought up, but was immediately jumped on by everyone. One even dismissing him as a "hater" for pointing out something as simple as, there's more variables to consider. He didn't even say anything really bad about him.
> 
> You can go re-read the last couple pages yourself really.



He's got a history for "hating" on Pettersson.


----------



## bobbyb2009

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> I never said that it determined anything, only that it shows that he couldn't handle the lesser ice vs more aggressive opponents like Canada and the US, and he couldn't do that this year either. I'm not saying that it determines his whole career, just that hes not ready for the NHL <3




It might be a bit helpful for the sake of a debate if you acknowledged the very special and unique skill set EP has shown, and if you also saw all the highest level thinking, skill, and impact he has, even at this years World Juniors. 

It is clear he isn't strong enough, but it is also clear the boy is a special talent. Not sure I have seen you acknowledge that anywhere?


----------



## Elias Pettersson

If Jas hated McDavid as much as he hates Pettersson, he would say McDavid is a good 3rd liner and make up a bunch of excuses as to why


----------



## DDRhockey

Jas 39 gripen is most famous for this


----------



## Lexus

VictorLustig said:


> Beautiful read to stop the clearing attempt. He saw that puck coming miles away.





Much better FPS on this one though.


----------



## 1972

Elias Pettersson said:


> If Jas hated McDavid as much as he hates Pettersson, he would say McDavid is a good 3rd liner and make up a bunch of excuses as to why




Do you like Elias Pettersson?


----------



## JumpierPegasus

Catbug said:


> Factor in the differences the league had between now and when Backstrom was in the league.
> 
> It's pretty much the only point he's brought up, but was immediately jumped on by everyone. One even dismissing him as a "hater" for pointing out something as simple as, there's more variables to consider. He didn't even say anything really bad about him.
> 
> You can go re-read the last couple pages yourself really.



The guy says things that are completely correct about Pettersson; however, his inability to ever note his positive points makes him look to be mainly a troll trying to get people's goat

Because of that he gets dismissed for being a hater like the poster Elias Pettersson gets dismissed for being a homer


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

stampedingviking said:


> He's got a history for "hating" on Pettersson.



So now its "hating" for discussing flaws in a prospects overall game?


----------



## HasbeenHallzy

So, are we done arguing over the shiny new toy? Super excited to have E.P and I think it's safe to say he's at minimum a 45pt centre with the potential to be a 85-90Pt monster. Only time will tell and anything anyone says is 100% subjective really. 

Any team would love to have Elias, but it's completely fine for someone to criticize his game and value him lower than others. I thought this is why discussion boards existed...


----------



## Breakers

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> So now its "hating" for discussing flaws in a prospects overall game?




The only problem is the info your are using for your arguments sucks.
Yes he has flaws like his size but at least make a sound argument 
you say he struggled on small ice. Yet he was one of Sweden's best forwards, hockey analysts agreed.
He played good during the world juniors. He wasn't dominant but good
You used the US and Canada games as your sample, yet Peterson was dominant in the USA game

So there goes that theory.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

JumpierPegasus said:


> The guy says things that are completely correct about Pettersson; however, his inability to ever note his positive points makes him look to be mainly a troll trying to get people's goat
> 
> Because of that he gets dismissed for being a hater like the poster Elias Pettersson gets dismissed for being a homer



I've never said that Elias isnt a great prospect. On the contrary, you can just look up other posts I've made in which I say that I'm even impressed by him. Like I just said in my post above, the fact that some of you cant handle or see that a prospect is just a prospect and that they SHOULD have flaws to their game...it's getting tiresome to repeat myself since it should be pretty obvious. 

Example 1:
-"Hey everyone, EP's just got to the same amount of points as Bäckström did in fewer games! Talk about it! Discuss!
-"EP is good but if you want to compare him to Bäckström at the same age, you have to take other things into consideration, like the lever of the SHL today vs before, for example"
-"OMG you're just a hater, EP's perfect! You're jelly and you're spreading fake news! Why are we even having this discussion, get out of here!!!!"

Example 2:
-"I want to see how EP handle himself on a smaller ice-surface when he dosnt get the same amount of space that he does in the SHL. I dont think that the nucks should rush him since hes not physically mature yet".
-"OMG stop hating on him! You cant evaluate him solely on an international tournament! He could score 90 points in the NHL next season! GAWD!"

Thats the standard of this thread.


----------



## Orca Smash

I can see this thread is still a mess, some of our fans bragging a bit to much and jas still fighting the fight like he was even before he was drafted.

I remember when he told me pre draft allsvenskan was not what it used to be and he wants to see if he can elevate his game in the shl.

It seems your opinion is simply moving goal posts with regards to what will please you about him. Now that he has elevated his game in the shl from the sounds of it your applying your allsvenskan criticism to the shl now.


----------



## clay

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> I've never said that Elias isnt a great prospect. On the contrary, you can just look up other posts I've made in which I say that I'm even impressed by him. Like I just said in my post above, the fact that some of you cant handle or see that a prospect is just a prospect and that they SHOULD have flaws to their game...it's getting tiresome to repeat myself since it should be pretty obvious.
> 
> Example 1:
> -"Hey everyone, EP's just got to the same amount of points as Bäckström did in fewer games! Talk about it! Discuss!
> -"EP is good but if you want to compare him to Bäckström at the same age, you have to take other things into consideration, like the lever of the SHL today vs before, for example"
> -"OMG you're just a hater, EP's perfect! You're jelly and you're spreading fake news! Why are we even having this discussion, get out of here!!!!"
> 
> Example 2:
> -"I want to see how EP handle himself on a smaller ice-surface when he dosnt get the same amount of space that he does in the SHL. I dont think that the nucks should rush him since hes not physically mature yet".
> -"OMG stop hating on him! You cant evaluate him solely on an international tournament! He could score 90 points in the NHL next season! GAWD!"
> 
> Thats the standard of this thread.




Funny you mock the standard of this thread when you produced this gem the other day:



JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Could we also skip that little part about the SHLs drop in quality compared to when Bäckströms 40 p meant he finished 22nd in the SHL, and that Elias sits at 6th with his 40p?


----------



## inthewings

I've been reading this thread, and I can't for the life of me understand the argument for why Pettersson's season isn't comparable to Backstrom's at the same age. It comes off has baseless hand-waving from people who want Pettersson to fail, for whatever reason.


----------



## Ace of Hades

inthewings said:


> I've been reading this thread, and I can't for the life of me understand the argument for why Pettersson's season isn't comparable to Backstrom's at the same age. It comes off has baseless hand-waving from people who want Pettersson to fail, for whatever reason.




It's mostly JAS 39 Gripen talking out of his ass. Which is sad and disgusting because he's a Swedish poster, and should be logically rooting for Petersson more than anything as Elias will be a major future product for Swedish hockey. Instead of supporting him, cheering for him, he would prefer to downplay him+ his achievements, and throw negative flawed statements toward him (he may have a anti-canuck bias) instead. Pathetic.

The others have been fine for the most part.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Sayonara77 said:


> It's mostly JAS 39 Gripen talking out of his ass. Which is sad and disgusting because he's a Swedish poster, and should be logically rooting for Petersson more than anything as Elias will be a major future product for Swedish hockey. Instead of supporting him, cheering for him, he would prefer to downplay him+ his achievements, and throw negative flawed statements toward him (*he may have a anti-canuck bias*) instead. Pathetic.
> 
> The others have been fine for the most part.



You hit the nail on the head. Answer in bold.


----------



## lawrence

inthewings said:


> I've been reading this thread, and I can't for the life of me understand the argument for why Pettersson's season isn't comparable to Backstrom's at the same age. It comes off has baseless hand-waving from people who want Pettersson to fail, for whatever reason.




call it the "Canuck" treatment. Their prospects particularly get a lot of flack due to the team they get drafted into. Why do you think Virtanen gets hated so much as the goat team who passed up on Nylander/Ehlers, but while teams like Islanders and Hurricanes were allowed to pass up on Nylander/Ehlers (who btw Jake has more games and points combined then both Fleury and Dal Cole. I'm personally even use to it now, and expect it to happen, like the trash JAS 39 Gripen is spewing. He will say a mere positive thing of Pettersson consisting of a sentence or 2, follwed up by an essay like rant about how his game sucks or whatever, even willing to out right criticize the entire Swedish League as a league that is no longer as good as it was before to downplay Pettersson success shows his true color.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

clay said:


> Funny you mock the standard of this thread when you produced this gem the other day:



Considering that you didnt get it, I see why you may think that way. Ive already said that yes, EP will finish with more points and yes, his higher PPG etc are very impressive. The point I was making with that comment was to point of the level of competition Bäckström faced compared to EP. The fact that you and others ignored my other post regarding the drop in talent in the SHL b/c of the emergance of the KHL and more swedes in the NHL and the AHL, however, isnt coming as a surprise.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Orca Smash said:


> I can see this thread is still a mess, some of our fans bragging a bit to much and jas still fighting the fight like he was even before he was drafted.
> 
> I remember when he told me pre draft allsvenskan was not what it used to be and he wants to see if he can elevate his game in the shl.
> 
> It seems your opinion is simply moving goal posts with regards to what will please you about him. Now that he has elevated his game in the shl from the sounds of it your applying your allsvenskan criticism to the shl now.



Well yes, I never said that Im not impressed by him. Hes shown that he can manage the SHL as well. But when someone wants to compare him to Bäckström back in 07, one have to consider more thing than EP producing more points.

The other argument, smaller ice etc, still stands. If he would be stronger and his body had matured, he would be going to the olympics this year. Yet, hes to easy to knock of the puck, hence Im making an argument that why the nucks shouldnt rush him. Call it what you want, Im rather trying to temper your expectations in contrast to other posters like EliasPettersson and DDR. EP can become a really good player in the NHL, but he needs to work on his strenght etc. If you want to compare him to Bäckström, take more stuff than points in to consideration.


----------



## Grub

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Well yes, I never said that Im not impressed by him. Hes shown that he can manage the SHL as well. But when someone wants to compare him to Bäckström back in 07, one have to consider more thing than EP producing more points.
> 
> The other argument, smaller ice etc, still stands. If he would be stronger and his body had matured, he would be going to the olympics this year. Yet, hes to easy to knock of the puck, hence Im making an argument that why the nucks shouldnt rush him. Call it what you want, Im rather trying to temper your expectations in contrast to other posters like EliasPettersson and DDR. EP can become a really good player in the NHL, but he needs to work on his strenght etc. If you want to compare him to Bäckström, take more stuff than points in to consideration.




I actually agree in regards to some of your points. He was sometimes too easily knocked of the puck when I really watched him in the WJC. I don't know why people are attacking you, it's clear that EP's greatest weakness is his current strength. Considering he is still just 19, and can play in the AHL next year, I'm pretty sure he will keep working on it next year. However in regards to your Backstrom argument, the SEL had more Goals Per game average back then... Now it's a much lower scoring league...


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Grub said:


> I actually agree in regards to some of your points. He was sometimes too easily knocked of the puck when I really watched him in the WJC. I don't know why people are attacking you, it's clear that EP's greatest weakness is his current strength. Considering he is still just 19, and can play in the AHL next year, I'm pretty sure he will keep working on it next year. However in regards to your Backstrom argument, the SEL had more Goals Per game average back then... Now it's a much lower scoring league...



Yeah, I'll stick with discussing this with you and a few others instead. DDR, EliasPettersson and lawrence isnt exactly objective or the posters one would try to discuss anything with, really.

I agree with you that my first statement (regarding their positions in the points-table) was kinda confusing, and I can see why some poster misunderstood that. Regarding the SHL, I would still argue that its worse than back in 07, mostly b/c of the total of swedish players playing in other leagues today, but also just by looking at what players Bäckström had to compete with in comparison with Elias Pettersson. I only brought this up b/c of the poster EliasPettersson wanted people to talk about how Elias passed Bäckströms point totals, so how am I the bad guy here? Im the bad guy b/c I'm not a nucks fan, fan of swedish players, the SHL - among other things, apparently. Since EliasPettersson and DDR are some of the posters on the other side of the discussion, notorious homers and subjective posters, I feel pretty comfortable in my arguement, really.

EP has a high hockey-IQ, great hands, great shot, great awereness but lacks strenght and size and needs to show that he can play his game on smaller ice as well. I do think he will be able to play on the smaller ice-surface, but the nucks shouldnt be rushing him. If hes as small and fragile by october as he is right now, thats exacly what they're doing.


----------



## ManUtdTobbe

inthewings said:


> I've been reading this thread, and I can't for the life of me understand the argument for why Pettersson's season isn't comparable to Backstrom's at the same age. It comes off has baseless hand-waving from people who want Pettersson to fail, for whatever reason.




It's not comparable, Petterssons season is much more impressive.


----------



## sleepers

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Yeah, I'll stick with discussing this with you and a few others instead. DDR, EliasPettersson and lawrence isnt exactly objective or the posters one would try to discuss anything with, really.
> 
> I agree with you that my first statement (regarding their positions in the points-table) was kinda confusing, and I can see why some poster misunderstood that. Regarding the SHL, I would still argue that its worse than back in 07, mostly b/c of the total of swedish players playing in other leagues today, but also just by looking at what players Bäckström had to compete with in comparison with Elias Pettersson. I only brought this up b/c of the poster EliasPettersson wanted people to talk about how Elias passed Bäckströms point totals, so how am I the bad guy here? Im the bad guy b/c I'm not a nucks fan, fan of swedish players, the SHL - among other things, apparently. Since EliasPettersson and DDR are some of the posters on the other side of the discussion, notorious homers and subjective posters, I feel pretty comfortable in my arguement, really.
> 
> EP has a high hockey-IQ, great hands, great shot, great awereness but lacks strenght and size and needs to show that he can play his game on smaller ice as well. I do think he will be able to play on the smaller ice-surface, but the nucks shouldnt be rushing him. If hes as small and fragile by october as he is right now, thats exacly what they're doing.




Ya you're just (like another poster mentioned) moving the goal posts to whatever narrative you're spewing. Now you're moving closer for you not to look like a complete a**. Whatever, honestly. Know your narcissistic kind wherever I see it.

OT; Happy to see a Swedish skater with some real sniping skills - it's been a while. I think he will transition beautifully.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

sleepers said:


> Ya you're just (like another poster mentioned) moving the goal posts to whatever narrative you're spewing. Now you're moving closer for you not to look like a complete a**. Whatever, honestly. Know your narcissistic kind wherever I see it.
> 
> OT; Happy to see a Swedish skater with some real sniping skills - it's been a while. I think he will transition beautifully.



I dont see how I'm moving those goal posts that you and another dude mentions, but here to you for your lack of originality and reading comprehension skills.


----------



## DDRhockey

inthewings said:


> I've been reading this thread, and I can't for the life of me understand the argument for why Pettersson's season isn't comparable to Backstrom's at the same age. It comes off has baseless hand-waving from people who want Pettersson to fail, for whatever reason.



Backstrom had a great season, but Pettersson surpassed him with 12 games in hand.

How that isnt more impressive beats me.


----------



## DDRhockey

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> I dont see how I'm moving those goal posts that you and another dude mentions, but here to you for *your lack of originality and reading comprehension skil*ls.




Pot meet kettle


----------



## hallonskal

I do not agree with everything JAS is saying but he has a few good points, but they get ignored because of some the other things he says. EP had issues when the games got tough at the WJC, he was not good against Slovakia, USA (despite the goal) and Canada; he did not evaluate his game when it really mattered and he got challanged physically in a way that he did not get in the group stage, the same goes to say about the whole first line. 

You can see simularities in the SHL, Pettersson does not thrive against teams that put a lot of pressure on him and plays in aggressive hard-working defensive systems that play quite rough on their opponents, where he has to work hard to get chances and don't get anything "for free" (like Örebro, Luleå and Brynäs):

vs Örebro: 2GP 0G 1A
vs Luleå: 3GP 0G 2A
vs Brynäs: 2GP 0G 1A

Total: 7GP 0G 4A

Compare that to versus offensive-minded teams that does not play the same kind of "rough" defense and often sacrifice their defensive play and leave a lot of open ice for their opponents (Färjestad, Frölunda and Malmö):

vs Färjestad: 3GP 1G 5A
vs Frölunda: 2GP 3G 2A
vs Malmö: 3GP 4G 1A

Total: 8GP 8G 8A

Does this make EP a bad prospect? No, but he currently has some weaknesses in his game, which should not be ignored when you evalute him as a prospect. Weaknesses that can become an issue on the smaller ice in North America. Especially considered that they already get exploited in the SHL, where he got more time and space than he will have once he goes to the smaller ice in NHL. Personally I think EP will become a great player in the future, but he still has things that he will have to overcome, just like every other prospect.


----------



## VictorLustig

Ferros said:


> I do not agree with everything JAS is saying but he has a few good points, but they get ignored because of some the other things he says. EP had issues when the games got tough at the WJC, he was not good against Slovakia, USA (despite the goal) and Canada; he did not evaluate his game when it really mattered and he got challanged physically in a way that he did not get in the group stage, the same goes to say about the whole first line.
> 
> You can see simularities in the SHL, Pettersson does not thrive against teams that put a lot of pressure on him and plays in aggressive hard-working defensive systems that play quite rough on their opponents, where he has to work hard to get chances and don't get anything "for free" (like Örebro, Luleå and Brynäs):
> 
> vs Örebro: 2GP 0G 1A
> vs Luleå: 3GP 0G 2A
> vs Brynäs: 2GP 0G 1A
> 
> Total: 7GP 0G 4A
> 
> Compare that to versus offensive-minded teams that does not play the same kind of "rough" defense and often sacrifice their defensive play and leave a lot of open ice for their opponents (Färjestad, Frölunda and Malmö):
> 
> vs Färjestad: 3GP 1G 5A
> vs Frölunda: 2GP 3G 2A
> vs Malmö: 3GP 4G 1A
> 
> Total: 8GP 8G 8A
> 
> Does this make EP a bad prospect? No, but he currently has some weaknesses in his game, which should not be ignored when you evalute him as a prospect. Weaknesses that can become an issue on the smaller ice in North America. Especially considered that they already get exploited in the SHL, where he got more time and space than he will have once he goes to the smaller ice in NHL. Personally I think EP will become a great player in the future, but he still has things that he will have to overcome, just like every other prospect.




Agree with most of this but the game against the USA was the best of his WJC tournament at 5 on 5. He's also been rather successful against Djurgården, maybe the most aggressive playing team in the SHL.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Ferros said:


> I do not agree with everything JAS is saying but he has a few good points, but they get ignored because of some the other things he says. EP had issues when the games got tough at the WJC, he was not good against Slovakia, USA (despite the goal) and Canada; he did not evaluate his game when it really mattered and he got challanged physically in a way that he did not get in the group stage, the same goes to say about the whole first line.
> 
> You can see simularities in the SHL, Pettersson does not thrive against teams that put a lot of pressure on him and plays in aggressive hard-working defensive systems that play quite rough on their opponents, where he has to work hard to get chances and don't get anything "for free" (like Örebro, Luleå and Brynäs):
> 
> vs Örebro: 2GP 0G 1A
> vs Luleå: 3GP 0G 2A
> vs Brynäs: 2GP 0G 1A
> 
> Total: 7GP 0G 4A
> 
> Compare that to versus offensive-minded teams that does not play the same kind of "rough" defense and often sacrifice their defensive play and leave a lot of open ice for their opponents (Färjestad, Frölunda and Malmö):
> 
> vs Färjestad: 3GP 1G 5A
> vs Frölunda: 2GP 3G 2A
> vs Malmö: 3GP 4G 1A
> 
> Total: 8GP 8G 8A
> 
> Does this make EP a bad prospect? No, but he currently has some weaknesses in his game, which should not be ignored when you evalute him as a prospect. Weaknesses that can become an issue on the smaller ice in North America. Especially considered that they already get exploited in the SHL, where he got more time and space than he will have once he goes to the smaller ice in NHL. Personally I think EP will become a great player in the future, but he still has things that he will have to overcome, just like every other prospect.



Thats pretty much what I'm saying, plus the "SHL is worse than before and you have to take that into consideration if you want to compare Bäckström and Pettersson"-part. The facts that you listed above and that I listed before are facts, not "fake news" like said ignored posters wants to put them (EliasPettersson, DDR etc.). Elias didnt make the olympic team b/c his overall game wasnt enough to put him above others, and I tend to agree with that. At the same age, Bäckström was more complete, altough Elias have shown a tremendous ability to score goals and shows his offensive prowess almost every game. I never questioned Elias ability as an offensive player, but as you and a few other have said, hes still pretty raw and would get beaten up pretty badly in the NHL atm. And its not that weird, either. It's normal for prospects to have some weaknesses, especially nucks fans should now this from when the Sedins first joined their club.


----------



## hallonskal

VictorLustig said:


> Agree with most of this but the game against the USA was the best of his WJC tournament at 5 on 5. He's also been rather successful against Djurgården, maybe the most aggressive playing team in the SHL.




I do not really agree about the game against USA, but he has indeed played well against Djurgården. My point was that the teams that he has struggled against are the teams that challange him physically and minimize his space and time. A good player like EP will of course find soluitions to that (like against Djurgården) but overall he has not played very well against teams that play a bit rougher/thougher defensively. 

But I'm not looking to get into this whole debate, it is too infected. I think EP will turn out to be a great player in the end, and it will be very interesting to follow his journey on the way there.


----------



## ZEBROA

Pson did not play great at JVM. Wich was a bit of a surprise. Not claiming Pson is a bust , but he could be no matter how good he play in SHL. Some players never master the smaller ice and vice versa. Nobody knows right now. Personaly i hope he become the best player in Nucks.


----------



## stampedingviking

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> So now its "hating" for discussing flaws in a prospects overall game?



All you point out are his flaws, never anything positive. How is that not hating?


----------



## DDRhockey

Lol people say he has weakness to his game, of course he has! What kind of arguement is this? Backstrom had weakness to his game also. Slow as a rock and not a good scorer.

Even mcdavid has weakness to his game. The only perfect player in history is imo Mario Lemiuex.

Pettersson has developed a lot this year, and yet Jas 39 gripen goes on and on about his weakness. I dont really get it.


----------



## DDRhockey

ZEBROA said:


> Pson did not play great at JVM. Wich was a bit of a surprise. Not claiming Pson is a bust , but he could be no matter how good he play in SHL. Some players never master the smaller ice and vice versa. Nobody knows right now. Personaly i hope he become the best player in Nucks.



Since backstrom is brought up a lot here, look at his wjc in 2007. He was suppose to dominate but he didnt. Scored 7 assists and 0 goals. 

His nhl career turned out just fine.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

stampedingviking said:


> All you point out are his flaws, never anything positive. How is that not hating?



You should read the last few pages instead of saying stuff thats false. I have praised his qualities as well.


----------



## stampedingviking

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> You should read the last few pages instead of saying stuff thats false. I have praised his qualities as well.



Only when called out on it.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

stampedingviking said:


> Only when called out on it.



Well, the discussion was the comparison of Bäckström in 06/07 and EP in 17/18. EPs skills are pretty evident, I dont think that one must spell them out in every discussion that includes him in every post you write, especially when a discussion turns into a discussion regarding his weaknesses.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

I think Pettersson and Boeser will be a perfect duo. Their skills complement each other perfectly


----------



## clay

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Considering that you didnt get it, I see why you may think that way. Ive already said that yes, EP will finish with more points and yes, his higher PPG etc are very impressive. The point I was making with that comment was to point of the level of competition Bäckström faced compared to EP. The fact that you and others ignored my other post regarding the drop in talent in the SHL b/c of the emergance of the KHL and more swedes in the NHL and the AHL, however, isnt coming as a surprise.




I wasn't ignoring that point. You could very well be correct regarding the quality of competition. I'm simply pointing out that your way of arguing that point was deeply flawed and illogical, which you have not acknowledged. If we're not able to agree on this and you're not able to admit it, then there isn't any point in discussing further.


----------



## inthewings

Ferros said:


> I do not agree with everything JAS is saying but he has a few good points, but they get ignored because of some the other things he says. EP had issues when the games got tough at the WJC, he was not good against Slovakia, USA (despite the goal) and Canada; he did not evaluate his game when it really mattered and he got challanged physically in a way that he did not get in the group stage, the same goes to say about the whole first line.
> 
> You can see simularities in the SHL, Pettersson does not thrive against teams that put a lot of pressure on him and plays in aggressive hard-working defensive systems that play quite rough on their opponents, where he has to work hard to get chances and don't get anything "for free" (like Örebro, Luleå and Brynäs):
> 
> vs Örebro: 2GP 0G 1A
> vs Luleå: 3GP 0G 2A
> vs Brynäs: 2GP 0G 1A
> 
> Total: 7GP 0G 4A
> 
> Compare that to versus offensive-minded teams that does not play the same kind of "rough" defense and often sacrifice their defensive play and leave a lot of open ice for their opponents (Färjestad, Frölunda and Malmö):
> 
> vs Färjestad: 3GP 1G 5A
> vs Frölunda: 2GP 3G 2A
> vs Malmö: 3GP 4G 1A
> 
> Total: 8GP 8G 8A
> 
> Does this make EP a bad prospect? No, but he currently has some weaknesses in his game, which should not be ignored when you evalute him as a prospect. Weaknesses that can become an issue on the smaller ice in North America. Especially considered that they already get exploited in the SHL, where he got more time and space than he will have once he goes to the smaller ice in NHL. Personally I think EP will become a great player in the future, but he still has things that he will have to overcome, just like every other prospect.




I mean, at the end of the day he has 41 points in 33 games at the age of 19, and is 5th in the league in points with everyone ahead of him being at least 25 years old and having played at least 5 more games. He's leading the league in points per game.

Saying that he'd have an even bigger lead in P/G if he just produced more against teams X, Y, and Z is kind of a silly criticism.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

clay said:


> I wasn't ignoring that point. You could very well be correct regarding the quality of competition. I'm simply pointing out that your way of arguing that point was *deeply flawed and illogica*l, which you have not acknowledged. If we're not able to agree on this and you're not able to admit it, then there isn't any point in discussing further.



I actually did say in one of my earlier posts that I can understand if my initial point could be misinterpreted. I dont find the point of my initial statement illogical, though, since it was more about putting the two different eras oppose one another (the point being that the SHL had much more talent than now and that Bäckström 40 points vs Elias 40 points so far needs to be put into context of how the leagues are made up in said years). I agree that the point standings (6th atm vs 20th) is a bad arguement, thats why I filled it out with how the the talent pool in the SHL have been affected by more players overseas and the emergance of the KHL.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

inthewings said:


> I mean, at the end of the day he has 41 points in 33 games at the age of 19, and is 5th in the league in points with everyone ahead of him being at least 25 years old and having played at least 5 more games. He's leading the league in points per game.
> 
> Saying that he'd have an even bigger lead in P/G if he just produced more against teams X, Y, and Z is kind of a silly criticism.



Yeah, but one point that both Ferros and me are making is that Elias struggles against teams that plays with high forecheck that dosnt allow him the ice that he, right now, needs to be effective - for the most part. The stats Ferros listed plays into my arguement regarding Elias struggles on the samller ice-surface against teams like the US and Canada as well, but I do think he'll work that out eventually.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Yeah, but one point that both Ferros and me are making is that Elias struggles against teams that plays with high forecheck that dosnt allow him the ice that he, right now, needs to be effective - for the most part. The stats Ferros listed plays into my arguement regarding Elias struggles on the samller ice-surface against teams like the US and Canada as well, but I do think he'll work that out eventually.




I think it's pretty obvious that Elias struggles in tight checking games and struggled against teams like the US and Canada because he is a bean pole right now. The guy has almost zero muscle on his frame and is easily pushed off the puck. It's no secret and was a huge reason he wasn't considered an even higher ranked prospect. It's his one major hurdle to overcome to become an elite player in the NHL. He has incredible talent but will he be able to put on enough size and strength to compete in the NHL?

Nothing has changed since he was drafted except he is putting up even more points than expected against men so far, but it's still just a question of how much size and strength he will be able to put on to his frame which will determine how successful he will be. He's obviously got the talent.


----------



## DDRhockey

EP did not struggle against the US.


----------



## DDRhockey

another point for EP


----------



## Elias Pettersson

DDRhockey said:


> another point for EP



This point wont translate to the NHL.


----------



## VictorLustig

DDRhockey said:


> EP did not struggle against the US.




It was the best WJC game he ever played. Just slightly disappointing 5 on 5 throughout the tournament, likely what cost him a spot on the Olympic team.


----------



## DDRhockey

Elias Pettersson said:


> This point wont translate to the NHL.



How many scoreless SHL games does he have? Cant be that many.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

DDRhockey said:


> How many scoreless SHL games does he have? Cant be that many.



Ask Jas. He keeps a tally on his calendar and records it in his journal every time Pettersson goes pointless.


----------



## mouz135

Elias Pettersson said:


> Ask Jas. He keeps a tally on his calendar and records it in his journal every time Pettersson goes pointless.



Dear Diary, today was a good day. Pettersson didn't get any points.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

mouz135 said:


> Dear Diary, today was a good day. Pettersson didn't get any points.



"Siri, Remind me to make a post about Pettersson's inability to translate skills over to NHL on the internet"


----------



## Disappointed EP40

Grub said:


> I actually agree in regards to some of your points. He was sometimes too easily knocked of the puck when I really watched him in the WJC. I don't know why people are attacking you, it's clear that EP's greatest weakness is his current strength. Considering he is still just 19, and can play in the AHL next year, I'm pretty sure he will keep working on it next year. However in regards to your Backstrom argument, the SEL had more Goals Per game average back then... Now it's a much lower scoring league...




With his current frame, it wouldn't shock me if he turns out to be a slightly more offensive RNH.

Not my expectation, but ye. Some bodies can't gain weight like others.


----------



## Orca Smash

Catbug said:


> With his current frame, it wouldn't shock me if he turns out to be a slightly more offensive RNH.
> 
> Not my expectation, but ye. Some bodies can't gain weight like others.





Or any skinny underweight player that plays in todays nhl who produces at a high level...David pastrnak was similar weight at the combine at his age, but you can use rnh to fit the narrative.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

mouz135 said:


> Dear Diary, today was a good day. Pettersson didn't get any points.



Way to miss the _point_, brah

At least EliasPettersson thought you were funny, hope that made your day <3


----------



## lawrence

mouz135 said:


> Dear Diary, today was a good day. Pettersson didn't get any points.




he actually had an assist. 
looks like he can play c after all.


----------



## ZEBROA

DDRhockey said:


> Since backstrom is brought up a lot here, look at his wjc in 2007. He was suppose to dominate but he didnt. Scored 7 assists and 0 goals.
> 
> His nhl career turned out just fine.




If it was up to me he would become the next Lemieux. Im from sweden so i realy want our players to succed. Just been fooled many times before by great prospects ending up in ahl or not living up to the hype. Selldom this great tho so im optimistic about his future.


----------



## Seiza

Instead of discussing EP, this thread turned in to a "let's mock a user for his opinons". To defend JAS, and I like EP just as much as anyone, stepping in to the NHL is a bigger step than going from Allsvenskan to SHL.

Compare Elias to for example Oskar Lindblom who was last years Swedish forward of the year. Many, myself included, thought he would step straight in to Philadelphia's line-up and produce. But he is having trouble shining in the AHL this season. Doesn't mean any of them will fail, but too many people are jumping the gun a bit early.

I believe it's a big mistake not including Elias in the Olympic line-up though.


----------



## clunk

Don't know why people are getting butt hurt about JAS. Nothing wrong with opposing viewpoints and criticism. I don't see anything wrong with his concerns for EP.


----------



## FinPanda

And if JAS is right about him, a lot of people will look dumb.

I believe Pettersson will be great in the NHL, but it is possible he doesn't do anything incredible in his first NHL games.


----------



## mouz135

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Way to miss the _point_, brah
> 
> At least EliasPettersson thought you were funny, hope that made your day <3



Wow, you're a real bright spot, huh? Forget it. You must be fun


----------



## pomx

clunk said:


> Don't know why people are getting butt hurt about JAS. Nothing wrong with opposing viewpoints and criticism. I don't see anything wrong with his concerns for EP.



Your opinion is as useless as his thanks for coming out.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

mouz135 said:


> Wow, you're a real bright spot, huh? Forget it. You must be fun



Hold it: you’re a FOX news anchor, arnt ya?


----------



## DDRhockey

FinPanda said:


> And if JAS is right about him, a lot of people will look dumb.
> 
> I believe Pettersson will be great in the NHL, but it is possible he doesn't do anything incredible in his first NHL games.



JAS is a troll account.


----------



## Orca Smash

Seiza said:


> Instead of discussing EP, this thread turned in to a "let's mock a user for his opinons". To defend JAS, and I like EP just as much as anyone, stepping in to the NHL is a bigger step than going from Allsvenskan to SHL.
> 
> Compare Elias to for example Oskar Lindblom who was last years Swedish forward of the year. Many, myself included, thought he would step straight in to Philadelphia's line-up and produce. But he is having trouble shining in the AHL this season. Doesn't mean any of them will fail, but too many people are jumping the gun a bit early.
> 
> I believe it's a big mistake not including Elias in the Olympic line-up though.




I wont get into the discussion wether he will step onto north american ice next season and take 0 time to adapt, I think that will take some time, but lindblom was a year a older then elias and did not really have close to his production. Elias trajectory looks to be far better.


----------



## Orca Smash

FinPanda said:


> And if JAS is right about him, a lot of people will look dumb.
> 
> I believe Pettersson will be great in the NHL, but it is possible he doesn't do anything incredible in his first NHL games.




We will see then, thats what I keep saying, I was extremely high on him before the draft after being blown away by his advanced numbers and watching him play, if elias fails to pan out given his production and the elite company he has joined in a mens league at his age, along with his IQ, this will be one of the biggest failures in recent history if he cant adapt to the nhl. I stated on the previous page my issues with jas opinion given his stance in the past.

Nothing is for sure and i feel canucks fans also go overboard with the expectations, but I would be very surprised if he cant translate to north america, I guess we will see who is right or wrong in a few seasons.


----------



## clunk

pomx said:


> Your opinion is as useless as his thanks for coming out.




I don't think telling people to temper expectations that he'll become as good as Peter Forsberg just because he might tie or pass him on the SHL U-20 records in a totally different era is really a 'useless opinion'.

This is the thing with some Canucks fans. We love to annoint every half decent young player we get as the second coming.... Just chill.


----------



## CloutierForVezina

clunk said:


> Don't know why people are getting butt hurt about JAS. Nothing wrong with opposing viewpoints and criticism. I don't see anything wrong with his concerns for EP.




I can't speak for anyone else, but my one and only issue with JAS was his complete nonsense point about the number of 40p players in the league.

I have no issue with pointing out flaws in Pettersson's games or asking questions. Can he play C in the NHL? Can he handle the physical play? How will he adapt to the smaller ice? Great questions.



clunk said:


> I don't think telling people to temper expectations that he'll become as good as Peter Forsberg just because he might tie or pass him on the SHL U-20 records in a totally different era is really a 'useless opinion'.
> 
> This is the thing with some Canucks fans. We love to annoint every half decent young player we get as the second coming.... Just chill.




This isn't a Canucks fan thing, this is a literally every fanbase in every sport thing. It's fun to get excited about prospects. Some of them turn out, some of them don't, life goes on.

Being eternally pessimistic and refusing to get excited about any prospect until they're already proven in the NHL with multiple great seasons doesn't make you a mature and enlightened fan. It makes you a wet blanket that is so scared of being wrong about a prospect that you simply post no opinions of any substance ever.

"Good player, trending well, let's temper expectations and wait and see how they adapt to the NHL before passing judgement" is the kind of boring garbage that can be posted on nearly every thread on this site.

I respect JAS because at least's he's not afraid of putting a bold prediction out there. I don't agree with most of what he says, but at least he's adding to the discussion.


----------



## clunk

CloutierForVezina said:


> I can't speak for anyone else, but my one and only issue with JAS was his complete nonsense point about the number of 40p players in the league.
> 
> I have no issue with pointing out flaws in Pettersson's games or asking questions. Can he play C in the NHL? Can he handle the physical play? How will he adapt to the smaller ice? Great questions.
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't a Canucks fan thing, this is a literally every fanbase in every sport thing. It's fun to get excited about prospects. Some of them turn out, some of them don't, life goes on.
> 
> Being eternally pessimistic and refusing to get excited about any prospect until they're already proven in the NHL with multiple great seasons doesn't make you a mature and enlightened fan. It makes you a wet blanket that is so scared of being wrong about a prospect that you simply post no opinions of any substance ever.
> 
> "Good player, trending well, let's temper expectations and wait and see how they adapt to the NHL before passing judgement" is the kind of boring garbage that can be posted on nearly every thread on this site.
> 
> I respect JAS because at least's he's not afraid of putting a bold prediction out there. I don't agree with most of what he says, but at least he's adding to the discussion.




I have posted what I've thought of Pettersson, and it's all good.... But to put him on the level of Peter ****ing Forsberg is a bit much. 

It's fair that people criticize him for his weak points... Maybe he will see these questions floating around cyberspace and work to improve these areas a bit more??

It's not like they negatively effect him in any way.


----------



## lawrence

clunk said:


> I have posted what I've thought of Pettersson, and it's all good.... But to put him on the level of Peter ****ing Forsberg is a bit much.
> 
> It's fair that people criticize him for his weak points... Maybe he will see these questions floating around cyberspace and work to improve these areas a bit more??
> 
> It's not like they negatively effect him in any way.




No one compares him to forsberg. It was just mentioned that he already outscored him at the same age in the same league. No one said he’s the next forsberg while being serious about it.


----------



## Bankerguy

I think that if Pettersson sticks at center , with Boeser on his wing, he'll be a PPG or better player, maybe toping out at 90 points.
Drafting another winger in the top 5 this year to play opposite of Boeser would be very nice indeed.
Svecnnikov/Tkachuk - Pettersson - Boeser <-- this would be so good!


----------



## Orca Smash

clunk said:


> I don't think telling people to temper expectations that he'll become as good as Peter Forsberg just because he might tie or pass him on the SHL U-20 records in a totally different era is really a 'useless opinion'.
> 
> This is the thing with some Canucks fans. We love to annoint every half decent young player we get as the second coming.... Just chill.




It goes both ways though, we have fans that go overboard with the hype but also far to dramatic regarding a prospect. I remember after we drafted horvat how people were freaking out we drafted a 3rd line center. After disappointing WJC and memorial cup appearances some were very down on him.


----------



## DDRhockey

Orca Smash said:


> I wont get into the discussion wether he will step onto north american ice next season and take 0 time to adapt, I think that will take some time, but lindblom was a year a older then elias and did not really have close to his production. Elias trajectory looks to be far better.



2 years older actually


----------



## Orca Smash

DDRhockey said:


> 2 years older actually




Well when he was in the shl he was 20.


----------



## lush

I'm hoping they leave him in Sweden another year


----------



## Smeagoal

lush said:


> I'm hoping they leave him in Sweden another year



I'm in the same boat. If he sticks to the SHL next season as a full time 'C' while getting a little bigger, stronger and faster it'd be good. Even if his points totals aren't as great, it'd still be great development for him. On the other hand if he were to come over to the AHL I wouldn't mind either. 

I still feel as though he isn't strong enough to play in the NHL. Skill is there no doubt, but strength is also needed to take some of the punishing hits, especially in the Western Conference of grind it out. However, if he does impress at camp next season and is on the NHL squad than I'd hope the Sedins are also signed for one more year, just to take the kid under their wings.

Sedin - Sedin - Pettersson should be a good 3rd line for him to start the season.


----------



## Peeps

The best option for him would be the AHL. Allsvenskan to SHL to AHL (2018-2019) to NHL (2019-2020) is the perfect curve for him because of his frame.

Also yes he can play the C, play the smaller rink and learn the NA style of play while being in the AHL with probably his pal Dahlen


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Shut Up Flanders said:


> I'm in the same boat. If he sticks to the SHL next season as a full time 'C' while getting a little bigger, stronger and faster it'd be good. Even if his points totals aren't as great, it'd still be great development for him. On the other hand if he were to come over to the AHL I wouldn't mind either.
> 
> I still feel as though he isn't strong enough to play in the NHL. Skill is there no doubt, but strength is also needed to take some of the punishing hits, especially in the Western Conference of grind it out. However, if he does impress at camp next season and is on the NHL squad than I'd hope the Sedins are also signed for one more year, just to take the kid under their wings.
> 
> Sedin - Sedin - Pettersson should be a good 3rd line for him to start the season.



3 soft swedes on the same line. yuck


----------



## Elias Pettersson

lush said:


> I'm hoping they leave him in Sweden another year



what? he's too good for sweden. He literally has nothing else to prove there. It's either AHL to learn smaller ice or NHL to prove he belongs.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Bankerguy said:


> I think that if Pettersson sticks at center , with Boeser on his wing, he'll be a PPG or better player, maybe toping out at 90 points.
> Drafting another winger in the top 5 this year to play opposite of Boeser would be very nice indeed.
> Svecnnikov/Tkachuk - Pettersson - Boeser



yeah we can draft forwards all day and end up like the Oilers. Then in 5 years we can trade Boeser for Erik Johnson or something.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Hold it: you’re a FOX news anchor, arnt ya?



and you're CNN obviously, the center of fake news


----------



## DDRhockey

Elias Pettersson with 3 points today.

45p in 34 games.


----------



## VictorLustig

Pettersson has a very real chance of winning the SHL scoring title. Most of his competition is heading to the Olympics now.


----------



## CherryToke

Why the heck is Pettersson not heading to the Olympics with them?


----------



## DDRhockey

Tryampled said:


> Why the heck is Pettersson not heading to the Olympics with them?



Because the coach is an idiot


----------



## Fantomas

Has Sweden already filled those two empty spots on their roster? Pettersson definitely not going?


----------



## DDRhockey

Fantomas said:


> Has Sweden already filled those two empty spots on their roster? Pettersson definitely not going?



Yes we filled those spots with scrubs


----------



## WetcoastOrca

VictorLustig said:


> Pettersson has a very real chance of winning the SHL scoring title. Most of his competition is heading to the Olympics now.



Agreed. His PPG is the best already as he's played less games than those above him. In some cases it's quite a few less games.


----------



## pomx

How was he left off the Olympic team..? Wonder if the coach will get fired over this blunder.


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

Sweden must be stacked with amazing talent for the Olympics if the leading scorer in the highest league in their country isnt even going ....


Why bother even showing up ? Give Sweden the gold now. 

Let me go check their roster... 

wait wha ???


----------



## CherryToke

The Olympics will have some terrible coaching. Sweden vs Canada will be interesting.


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

Tryampled said:


> The Olympics will have some terrible coaching. Sweden vs Canada will be interesting.





There is literally ZERO interest from anyone here in Vancouver about Olympic Hockey.


ZERO buzz or excitement. 

Ratings wise this wont even come anywhere near the WJC this past December.


----------



## Seiza

pomx said:


> How was he left off the Olympic team..? Wonder if the coach will get fired over this blunder.





That's not how the Swedish federation work. Just look at the womens team where the best players were cut from the team because the coach doesn't like strong individuals. Coach is still there, players retired from hockey.


----------



## Lexus

His goal today.


----------



## CanuckGame39

Lexus said:


> His goal today.




That shot is unreal.


----------



## M2Beezy

Lexus said:


> His goal today.




Any more videos hard to see where the puck gets by the goalie. Looks like a incredible snipe tho

Man I love this prospect


----------



## Snowsii

CanuckGame39 said:


> That shot is unreal.



Doesnt work in NHL, as he wont have as much room and NHL have better goalies


----------



## DDRhockey

Jas gripen quiet today


----------



## thelittlecoon

VictorLustig said:


> Pettersson has a very real chance of winning the SHL scoring title. Most of his competition is heading to the Olympics now.



The SHL has an Olympic break though so those guys that are going aren't missing many games. Pettersson plays on the 10th then doesn't play until 2 weeks later on the 24th.


----------



## mouz135

DDRhockey said:


> Jas gripen quiet today



he's writing blink 182 lyrics in his diary. It's a sad day for him today.


----------



## PatrikBerglund

Is it true that the best forward in the SHL wasn't invited to the Olympics?


----------



## DDRhockey

crossbownerf said:


> Is it true that the best forward in the SHL wasn't invited to the Olympics?



Yep.


----------



## Seiza

DDRhockey said:


> Yep.




No. Joakim Lindström is going to the Olympics.


----------



## DDRhockey

Seiza said:


> N
> 
> 
> No. Both Joakim Lindström and Ryan Lasch is going to the Olympics.



Lasch isnt swedish


----------



## Seiza

DDRhockey said:


> Lasch isnt swedish




And isn't invited either.


----------



## PatrikBerglund

DDRhockey said:


> Yep.




It's as bad as Hedman being snubbed for the last Olympics.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Peter Forsberg record is 47 points in 39games. Interesting to see if Pettersson can break that. If so, then he's only behind Kent Nilsson in terms of U20 SHL seasons.


----------



## LemonSauceD

Elias Pettersson said:


> Peter Forsberg record is 47 points in 39games. Interesting to see if Pettersson can break that. If so, then he's only behind Kent Nilsson in terms of U20 SHL seasons.



Lol some websites say 48 points, some say 47 points. Don't know which one is correct. But EP has them at 48 and they are pretty dead accurate.


----------



## GetFocht

We are witnessing history


----------



## Brock Boeser

1 year from now he'll be the consensus best player from the 2017 draft with the Calder trophy in his hands!


Pettersson to Boeser wheuuuuuuuu


----------



## Grub

With Bo Horvat, and Boeser along with another top 5 pick this year, i expect the Canucks to start turning the corner within a year or two.


----------



## Shareefruck

While I think it's still a possibility that he doesn't do as well as we hope in the NHL (I'm mostly just crossing my fingers that he stays healthy), I disagree with how easy it is for people to jump on the whole temper your expectations and stop over-hyping our prospects thing, as if that's the more level-headed position in every case. I feel like that's more a defensive coping mechanism to protect from disappointment than anything, really.

If you're not going to get excited and hyped over a player performing like this, when the hell are you going to get excited and hyped? We shouldn't be expressing doubt until he actually falters and gives us a reason to doubt him.

Sky's the limit at the moment, IMO, and that's going to be my working assumption until it turns out to not be the case.


----------



## lawrence

DownGoesMcDavid said:


> Sweden must be stacked with amazing talent for the Olympics if the leading scorer in the highest league in their country isnt even going ....
> 
> 
> Why bother even showing up ? Give Sweden the gold now.
> 
> Let me go check their roster...
> 
> wait wha ???




reminds me of the time when Crosby and Staal (during the 2006 season when they were killing it statistically outscoring more then half of the other named Canadian players) on the olympic team, now I'm not saying pettersson is a staal or Crosby, maybe he's too young? Anderson is on the team, Sweden probably wants a team that can go all out in a 14 day span. I'm sure Sweden has their reasons to do this, sad, but gotta move on. 





CanuckGame39 said:


> That shot is unreal.




Brock Boeser like shot


----------



## DDRhockey




----------



## VictorLustig

DDRhockey said:


>





Something looks off with D. Sedin's numbers...


----------



## Seiza

VictorLustig said:


> Something looks off with D. Sedin's numbers...




We have heard of alternative facts, this is alternative maths.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Seiza said:


> We have heard of alternative facts, this is alternative maths.



Fake news


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Shareefruck said:


> While I think it's still a possibility that he doesn't do as well as we hope in the NHL (I'm mostly just crossing my fingers that he stays healthy), I disagree with how easy it is for people to jump on the whole temper your expectations and stop over-hyping our prospects thing, as if that's the more level-headed position in every case. I feel like that's more a defensive coping mechanism to protect from disappointment than anything, really.
> 
> If you're not going to get excited and hyped over a player performing like this, when the hell are you going to get excited and hyped? We shouldn't be expressing doubt until he actually falters and gives us a reason to doubt him.
> 
> Sky's the limit at the moment, IMO, and that's going to be my working assumption until it turns out to not be the case.



Good point. I mean, you SHOULD be hyped about a prospect setting historic scoring records.


----------



## LemonSauceD

Playmaking-sniper hybrid


----------



## Gurilla

I hear that this young man is quite ELITE. Can anyone confirm?


----------



## inthewings

Gurilla said:


> I hear that this young man is quite ELITE. Can anyone confirm?




Confirmed.


----------



## PatrikBerglund

Gurilla said:


> I hear that this young man is quite ELITE. Can anyone confirm?




Not good enough for a non NHL player Olympic roster.

Obviously overrated.


----------



## elitepete

Gurilla said:


> I hear that this young man is quite ELITE. Can anyone confirm?



Not as elite as Nolan Patrick and his 5 NHL goals in 43 games


----------



## The Iron Goalie

travis scott said:


> Not as elite as Nolan Patrick and his 5 NHL goals in 43 games




Can't we just be happy he's playing at an elite level, and not crap on other teams prospects?


----------



## sleepers

Gurilla said:


> I hear that this young man is quite ELITE. Can anyone confirm?




Surely elite. Here's to hoping we can upgrade that to franchise class player.


----------



## Smeagoal

OEL for Norris said:


> Can't we just be happy he's playing at an elite level, and not crap on other teams prospects?



Agreed. This is what? Patricks _first_ season in the NHL? playing 3rd line C? Essentially with bottom-6 forwards. I'm with the Canucks and all but how was Horvat while playing with Dorsett and co. with Willie D pulling the strings behind the bench. Essentially what Patrick is in PHI. If he hits his potential, which I don't see why he won't since he is still a kid. Than Pettersson better produce in the NHL or else we will all be eating crow from PHI fans.

Edit: Patrick has 12 pt, Horvat had 25pt in his first season. So chill with the crapping on a player who is essentially a similarity to our '1C'


----------



## Szechwan

Shut Up Flanders said:


> Agreed. This is what? Patricks _first_ season in the NHL? playing 3rd line C? Essentially with bottom-6 forwards. I'm with the Canucks and all but how was Horvat while playing with Dorsett and co. with Willie D pulling the strings behind the bench. Essentially what Patrick is in PHI. If he hits his potential, which I don't see why he won't since he is still a kid. Than Pettersson better produce in the NHL or else we will all be eating crow from PHI fans.
> 
> Edit: Patrick has 12 pt, Horvat had 25pt in his first season. So chill with the crapping on a player who is essentially a similarity to our '1C'




That's a completely different situation though because Bo has always had elite head shape since the day he entered the league. It simply wasn't about the points with Bo,

Can't say the same for NP, unfortunately.


----------



## Scorcho

Brock Boeser said:


> 1 year from now he'll be the consensus best player from the 2017 draft with the Calder trophy in his hands!
> 
> 
> Pettersson to Boeser wheuuuuuuuu




heh

hehehehehehehhehehehehehe

ok


----------



## GetFocht

Wow looking at the 2017 draft thus far, Hischier/Patrick look extremely underwhelming. 

I think Pettersson will turn out to the best player in the draft.


----------



## M2Beezy

PorscheDesign said:


> Wow looking at the 2017 draft thus far, Hischier/Patrick look extremely underwhelming.
> 
> I think Pettersson will turn out to the best player in the draft.



What are you talking about Hischier is a frickin gem


----------



## Drew Doubty

PorscheDesign said:


> Wow looking at the 2017 draft thus far, Hischier/Patrick look extremely underwhelming.
> 
> I think Pettersson will turn out to the best player in the draft.




Let's just wait and see...How bout that?


----------



## timbermen

Peterson's should have went number 1.Thats karma for finishing 10th from last and getting the first pick HAHA.


----------



## Hokinaittii

PorscheDesign said:


> Wow looking at the 2017 draft thus far, Hischier/Patrick look extremely underwhelming.
> 
> I think Pettersson will turn out to the best player in the draft.



Let's wait and see how Pettersson looks against NHLers before calling him any better than Hischier, or even Patrick.

I don't doubt that Pettersson will be an elite player at some point but there's a good chance he wouldn't have even made the team this year since playing in NHL requires so much more than just skill. 

In the end, Pettersson is taking the easy route while Hischier and Patrick went for the hardest one. No point comparing these players at this point.


----------



## scoutman1

PorscheDesign said:


> Wow looking at the 2017 draft thus far, Hischier/Patrick look extremely underwhelming.
> 
> I think Pettersson will turn out to the best player in the draft.



Hischier is doing very good...not sure how he is underwhelming, not sure what people think of an impact of a prospect these days....guess there should be no adjustment time or teams taking it easy on a player to ease them into the league....


----------



## GetFocht

all I can say is if someone offered me Hischer for Pettersson, I would turn it down.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

PorscheDesign said:


> Wow looking at the 2017 draft thus far, Hischier/Patrick look extremely underwhelming.
> 
> I think Pettersson will turn out to the best player in the draft.



I, for one, think Pettersson will turn out to be the worst player in the draft


----------



## Hansen

PorscheDesign said:


> all I can say is if someone offered me Hischer for Pettersson, I would turn it down.



Thank god you are not GM


----------



## Breakers

PorscheDesign said:


> Wow looking at the 2017 draft thus far, *Hischier*/Patrick look extremely underwhelming.
> 
> I think Pettersson will turn out to the best player in the draft.





Umm No


----------



## Brock Boeser

Hansen said:


> Thank god you are not GM



You would do that deal?


----------



## Canadian Canuck

Hokinaittii said:


> Let's wait and see how Pettersson looks against NHLers before calling him any better than Hischier, or even Patrick.
> 
> I don't doubt that Pettersson will be an elite player at some point but there's a good chance he wouldn't have even made the team this year since playing in NHL requires so much more than just skill.
> 
> In the end, Pettersson is taking the easy route while Hischier and Patrick went for the hardest one. No point comparing these players at this point.



How in God's name is playing in the Swedish Elite League against men taking the easy route???? LMAO

I guess Backstrom, Forsberg, Naslund, Sedins, Nylander etc took the easy route hey?


----------



## FOurteenS inCisOr

Canadian Canuck said:


> How in God's name is playing in the Swedish Elite League against men taking the easy route???? LMAO
> 
> I guess Backstrom, Forsberg, Naslund, Sedins, Nylander etc took the easy route hey?




I’d agree with him that it’s an easier route than jumping straight into the more physical NHL as an 18 year old, absolutely.


----------



## Hansen

Brock Boeser said:


> You would do that deal?



Elias Pettersson for Nico Hischier straight across? Every day of the week and twice on Sundays.


----------



## elitepete

Hischier is having a good season but I would not trade Pettersson for him. There is something special about this kid and we are blessed to have him.


----------



## Hokinaittii

Canadian Canuck said:


> How in God's name is playing in the Swedish Elite League against men taking the easy route???? LMAO
> 
> I guess Backstrom, Forsberg, Naslund, Sedins, Nylander etc took the easy route hey?



Maybe I should have worded myself better. I didn't mean it's easy to dominate in SHL at that age but the gap between SHL and NHL is so massive that you really can't compare Pettersson dominating in SHL to Hischier and Patrick currently holding their own in NHL.


----------



## GetFocht

Hansen said:


> Elias Pettersson for Nico Hischier straight across? Every day of the week and twice on Sundays.




Thank God you are not a GM.


----------



## McGarnagle

I have just one question for the board

Who wants to walk with Elias?


----------



## lawrence

PorscheDesign said:


> Wow looking at the 2017 draft thus far, Hischier/Patrick look extremely underwhelming.
> 
> I think Pettersson will turn out to the best player in the draft.




what? Nico Hischier is a beaut, and I think Patrick is going to be a beast but a little bit later. 

I wish we can stop comparing him to Patrick or Hischier.


----------



## GetFocht

lawrence said:


> what? Nico Hischier is a beaut, and I think Patrick is going to be a beast but a little bit later.
> 
> I wish we can stop comparing him to Patrick or Hischier.




No for a first overall and second overall, it’s pretty weak. Hischier isn’t even close to Calder talk


----------



## Dumpster Dive Dubie

PorscheDesign said:


> Wow looking at the 2017 draft thus far, Hischier/Patrick look extremely underwhelming.
> 
> I think Pettersson will turn out to the best player in the draft.



Ok there bud. Two are in the show right now and the other is across the pond playing in like the 4th best league in the world.


----------



## GetFocht

Dart Guy said:


> Ok there bud. Two are in the show right now and the other is across the pond playing in like the 4th best league in the world.




Lol yeah who’s having a historic year that’s breaking records that are decades old, surpassing the Backstrom, Sedins, Naslund, and Peter Forsberg. He’s going to be in the NHL next season, I always find it funny when people use the argument that player x is in the nhl now. There are 4th line pluggers in the nhl, does that mean they’re better than Pettersson.


----------



## PG Canuck

Canadian Canuck said:


> How in God's name is playing in the Swedish Elite League against men taking the easy route???? LMAO
> 
> I guess Backstrom, Forsberg, Naslund, Sedins, Nylander etc took the easy route hey?




So you're saying it's NOT the easier route? Yikes


----------



## PG Canuck

This talk that he needs AHL time is beyond hilarious. Also saying he's going to get tossed around? Have people not looked around the NHL lately and seen what kind of players are dominating the game?

People acting like Pettersson is 5'9" 150lbs. The guy is breaking records in the SHL and there are legitimately people who think he needs AHL time...like, for what? If he bombs in the NHL then sure, but Boeser didn't light the world on fire in camps either.


----------



## Smeagoal

PG Canuck said:


> This talk that he needs AHL time is beyond hilarious. Also saying he's going to get tossed around? Have people not looked around the NHL lately and seen what kind of players are dominating the game?
> 
> People acting like Pettersson is 5'9" 150lbs. The guy is breaking records in the SHL and there are legitimately people who think he needs AHL time...like, for what? If he bombs in the NHL then sure, but Boeser didn't light the world on fire in camps either.



I think it's caution on our behalf that we do not want Ferland, Maroon, Getzlaf, Benn, or any other big Western Conference type player to take a nice run at Pettersson injuring him. He's not 150lbs but it's not like he's over 180lb either. Those guys are all 215lb + atleast who can all skate faster and hit harder and will definitely look to introduce a rookie into the NHL with a hit.

Smaller and lighter players ala. Johnny Hockey are masters of dodging hits but it's an art and even they get tagged at times. NHL is just a faster and stronger league. If he can gain some muscle and get a little stronger than by all means he should stick in the NHL. He possess the skill, moreso than any rookie we've had recently. If not, than let him play in the AHL a little bit to get used to the NA style. Not like the Canucks are going to be competing or doing anything great next year anyway.


----------



## Canadian Canuck

Hokinaittii said:


> Maybe I should have worded myself better. I didn't mean it's easy to dominate in SHL at that age but the gap between SHL and NHL is so massive that you really can't compare Pettersson dominating in SHL to Hischier and Patrick currently holding their own in NHL.



Ah okay I can agree with you there then!


----------



## Canadian Canuck

PG Canuck said:


> So you're saying it's NOT the easier route? Yikes



Than the CHL? Nope.


----------



## DDRhockey

Dart Guy said:


> Ok there bud. Two are in the show right now and the other is across the pond playing in like the 4th best league in the world.




Peter Forsberg played in shl before coming to nhl. Look how he turned out.
But i guess aron ward who was in the nhl ahead of forsberg was better


----------



## VictorLustig

DDRhockey said:


> Peter Forsberg played in shl before coming to nhl. Look how he turned out.
> But i guess aron ward who was in the nhl ahead of forsberg was better




Doing well in the NHL at a young age is generally not a bad sign for the future. Pettersson has significant flaws and would not be a very good NHL player right now. He will very likely get there but no GM would trade away Hischier for him today. Pettersson is not the only talented prospect out there...


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

VictorLustig said:


> Doing well in the NHL at a young age is generally not a bad sign for the future. Pettersson has significant flaws and would not be a very good NHL player right now. He will very likely get there but no GM would trade away Hischier for him today. Pettersson is not the only talented prospect out there...



Careful now, Lustig, you'll get the whole EP-mob on your back if you keep telling things as they are.


----------



## DDRhockey

VictorLustig said:


> Doing well in the NHL at a young age is generally not a bad sign for the future. Pettersson has significant flaws and would not be a very good NHL player right now. He will very likely get there but no GM would trade away Hischier for him today. Pettersson is not the only talented prospect out there...



Elias lindholm played in nhl as 18 year old. Did him no good


----------



## Tripod

For those who watch the SHL a bunch, any reason for the higher PPG from the top guys?

This year there are 10 guys with a .930PPG or higher.
Last year there were only 2
2 years ago 7
3 years ago 5


----------



## Elias Pettersson

VictorLustig said:


> Doing well in the NHL at a young age is generally not a bad sign for the future. Pettersson has significant flaws and would not be a very good NHL player right now. He will very likely get there but no GM would trade away Hischier for him today. Pettersson is not the only talented prospect out there...



The only significant flaw Pettersson has is being too good at hockey


----------



## DDRhockey

Last year Pettersson had 41p in 43 games in tier 2
This year he has 45p in 35 games in shl.

Insane development.


----------



## Bankerguy

I hope that Pettersson plays a full year in the AHL. Let him get used to the NA game and mature physically.

The AHL team would consist of: Pettersson, Lind, Gaudette, Dahlen, Juolvi and maybe one of the players they pick in this up coming draft (if European since can get around the NA age requirement for AHL)


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

Elias Pettersson said:


> The only significant flaw Pettersson has is being too good at hockey



So then why did teams pass on him?

Great numbers in the SHL dont equal NHL success - he needs to prove it at the NA pro level.


----------



## DDRhockey

Actuarial said:


> So then why did teams pass on him?
> 
> Great numbers in the SHL dont equal NHL success - he needs to prove it at the NA pro level.



He is right now top5 among current players in shl:

Kent nilsson
Peter forsberg
Sedins
Naslund

All had great success in nhl.

Nice try though.


----------



## Dumpster Dive Dubie

DDRhockey said:


> Peter Forsberg played in shl before coming to nhl. Look how he turned out.
> But i guess aron ward who was in the nhl ahead of forsberg was better



The great Elias will turn out like forsberg!


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

DDRhockey said:


> He is right now top5 among current players in shl:
> 
> Kent nilsson
> Peter forsberg
> Sedins
> Naslund
> 
> All had great success in nhl.
> 
> Nice try though.



So where is he then? Those players did that in their pre-draft years and then went to the NHL after being drafted. So what gives? Petterrsson not good enough maybe?

Nico Hischier is 6’1” 180 pounds and he has 30 points in the NHL. Whats Elias’ excuse?


----------



## Dumpster Dive Dubie

PorscheDesign said:


> Lol yeah who’s having a historic year that’s breaking records that are decades old, surpassing the Backstrom, Sedins, Naslund, and Peter Forsberg. He’s going to be in the NHL next season, I always find it funny when people use the argument that player x is in the nhl now. There are 4th line pluggers in the nhl, does that mean they’re better than Pettersson.



Cool story bro. If he was better than Nico and Patrick he would be in the league sonny. Period.


----------



## DDRhockey

Actuarial said:


> So where is he then? Those players did that in their pre-draft years and then went to the NHL after being drafted. So what gives? Petterrsson not good enough maybe?




What are you saying?

All of those players stayed in shl after being drafted atleast one season just like Elias.

Please dont make nonsensical posts


----------



## cc

Actuarial said:


> So where is he then? *Those players did that in their pre-draft years and then went to the NHL after being drafted*. So what gives? Petterrsson not good enough maybe?
> 
> Nico Hischier is 6’1” 180 pounds and he has 30 points in the NHL. Whats Elias’ excuse?



that's literally not true in almost every one of those examples.


----------



## DDRhockey

Dart Guy said:


> Cool story bro. If he was better than Nico and Patrick he would be in the league sonny. Period.



Lol petterssons 45p in shl is not worse than 13 points in nhl.


----------



## Dumpster Dive Dubie

DDRhockey said:


> Lol petterssons 45p in shl is not worse than 13 points in nhl.



Lets see what he can do next year before we anoint him Peter Forsberg there pal.


----------



## DDRhockey

Dart Guy said:


> Lets see what he can do next year before we anoint him Peter Forsberg there pal.



Who says he is peter forsberg? All that has been said is that he matched forsbergs stats in shl.


----------



## Scorcho

DDRhockey said:


> Last year Pettersson had 41p in 43 games in tier 2
> This year he has 45p in 35 games in shl.
> 
> Insane development.




He's like Bratt-Lite


----------



## DDRhockey

Scorcho said:


> He's like Bratt-Lite



Bratt 22p in tier 2 d+1
Bratt 31p in nhl d+2

So that means the swedish leagues are not bad at all.


----------



## JTmillerForA1stLOL

Embarrassing thread from a Canucks fan's perspective.

Give it a rest guys.


----------



## Dumpster Dive Dubie

DDRhockey said:


> Who says he is peter forsberg? All that has been said is that he matched forsbergs stats in shl.



I’m seeing a lot of Forsbergs, Backstroms and Sedins getting tossed around this board dude don’t act like people aren’t hyping this kid up beyond imagination.


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

Okay so my misinformation aside - no one is arguing Pettersson isnt an amazing prospect but folks are trying to say his SHL point totals are enough to crown him over Hischier and Patrick who are producing in the NHL. There is no way. Elias could be better but for right now until he enters the NHL he cannot be considered better than the two playing there regularly, one who is producing at an impressive clip as well for the youngest player in the league.


----------



## DDRhockey

Dart Guy said:


> I’m seeing a lot of Forsbergs, Backstroms and Sedins getting tossed around this board dude don’t act like people aren’t hyping this kid up beyond imagination.



They are getting tossed because EP entered top5 in shl just like those names.

How is fact hyping? People seem jealous like hell in here.


----------



## DDRhockey

cadillaccts said:


> Embarrassing thread from a Canucks fan's perspective.
> 
> Give it a rest guys.



How are facts embaressing? This is the EP thread. Should he only be bashed in here?

Plenty of trolls in Elias own thread


----------



## Canucks LB

Wait who is bashing Elias? the guy is breaking records left and right and is basically universally known as the best prospect outside of the nhl


----------



## Scorcho

DDRhockey said:


> Bratt 22p in tier 2 d+1
> Bratt 31p in nhl d+2
> 
> So that means the swedish leagues are not bad at all.




Correct, and the nhl is better.


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

Lucbourdon said:


> Wait who is bashing Elias? the guy is breaking records left and right and is basically universally known as the best prospect outside of the nhl



How is he universally known as the best prospect?

Did we just forget Heiskanen? Makar? Prospects from the previous draft? 

This is why people think Pettersson is overrated. Because he is.


----------



## Canucks LB

Actuarial said:


> How is he universally known as the best prospect?
> 
> Did we just forget Heiskanen? Makar? Prospects from the previous draft?
> 
> This is why people think Pettersson is overrated. Because he is.



I read like 6 articles, all have him at the top of the list, why are you so aggressive when you post


----------



## lawrence

Actuarial said:


> How is he universally known as the best prospect?
> 
> Did we just forget Heiskanen? Makar? Prospects from the previous draft?
> 
> This is why people think Pettersson is overrated. Because he is.




Of all drafted prospects out to here hes been voted by hfboards as the top prospect in the world. Do some research, he’s literally dominating in a men’s league as a 19 year old without real support. 

Also no one has compares him as the next Forsberg, although it’s s valid point to bring up that he is scoring as much points as they did but he’s doing it in a era when it’s much harder to score goals. The most exaggerated claim is that he will be a 90 point player. Everything is valid so far.


----------



## g00n

*Stay on topic. If you're not here to discuss the player in good faith then get out.*


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

Lucbourdon said:


> I read like 6 articles, all have him at the top of the list, why are you so aggressive when you post



Aggressive? I think youre just being soft lol. Text is interpreted so thats how you chose to take it.

Idc what articles say, he waa taken behind two other players not in the NHL yet (Hischier and Patrick arent prospects anymore technically) so those two are higher prospects than him until at least the season ends. Then things can change. 

Plus Heiskanen is having a great year as well im pretty sure. Makar I dont know about


----------



## DDRhockey

Pettersson has 10 games left to play


----------



## mouz135

Actuarial said:


> How is he universally known as the best prospect?
> 
> Did we just forget Heiskanen? Makar? Prospects from the previous draft?
> 
> This is why people think Pettersson is overrated. Because he is.



Holy shit man, relax. It's not difficult to do a little reading around to see that he is, in fact, viewed as the best prospect not in the NHL. Read some articles, anything. Maybe that'll open your eyes. But to call him overrated, is anything but. And we're not hyping him, he's doing it himself, by breaking U20 records.

There really is a lot of upset people in here, triggered by the fact that Pettersson is on top of the prospect rankings. Maybe they're upset he wasn't drafted by their team.


----------



## dellzor

Actuarial said:


> How is he universally known as the best prospect?
> 
> Did we just forget Heiskanen? Makar? Prospects from the previous draft?
> 
> This is why people think Pettersson is overrated. Because he is.



I personally have my rankings as

1. Pettersson
2. Heiskanen
3. Makar
4. Tolvanen
5. Chytil

based off their scoring in their respective leagues


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

dellzor said:


> I personally have my rankings as
> 
> 1. Pettersson
> 2. Heiskanen
> 3. Makar
> 4. Tolvanen
> 5. Chytil
> 
> based off their scoring in their respective leagues



So defenseman are being ranked on their scoring? Really..?


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

mouz135 said:


> Holy **** man, relax. It's not difficult to do a little reading around to see that he is, in fact, viewed as the best prospect not in the NHL. Read some articles, anything. Maybe that'll open your eyes. But to call him overrated, is anything but. And we're not hyping him, he's doing it himself, by breaking U20 records.
> 
> There really is a lot of upset people in here, triggered by the fact that Pettersson is on top of the prospect rankings. Maybe they're upset he wasn't drafted by their team.



He is overrated


----------



## dellzor

Actuarial said:


> So defenseman are being ranked on their scoring? Really..?



Relax, not all on their scoring but their play is also included. (typing this in my lecture)


----------



## ponder

dellzor said:


> I personally have my rankings as
> 
> 1. Pettersson
> 2. Heiskanen
> 3. Makar
> 4. Tolvanen
> 5. Chytil
> 
> based off their scoring in their respective leagues



I wouldn’t sleep on Mittelstadt either - the numbers may not be quite as impressive, but he looks outstanding on the ice.

I do have Pettersson #1 of 2017 picks not currently in the NHL, but it’s super early, pretty hard to rank these guys at the moment.


----------



## Josepho

Actuarial said:


> So then why did teams pass on him?
> 
> Great numbers in the SHL dont equal NHL success - he needs to prove it at the NA pro level.




I mean, only four players were picked ahead of him and after the first two the consensus was that the draft would be all over the place. There also was probably very little seperating him from guys like Makar and Heiskanen anyways in the eyes of Colorado and Dallas.

And very few people think that good lower league numbers will directly translate to the NHL flawlessly. But, when his best comparables at a similar age are all *exclusively* HOF/Elite players, it bodes extremely well for him.



Dart Guy said:


> Cool story bro. If he was better than Nico and Patrick he would be in the league sonny. Period.




He probably could've cracked the roster. This argument is stupid regardless but it's not like he even tried out for the team anyways.

"If Nylander was better than Virtanen he'd be in the league sonny. Period."


----------



## dellzor

Josepho said:


> I mean, only four players were picked ahead of him and after the first two the consensus was that the draft would be all over the place. There also was probably very little seperating him from guys like Makar and Heiskanen anyways.
> 
> And very few people think that good lower league numbers will directly translate to the NHL flawlessly. But, when his best comparables at a similar age are all HOF/Elite players, it bodes extremely well for him.
> 
> 
> 
> He probably could've cracked the roster. This argument is stupid regardless but it's not like he even tried out for the team anyways.



If he can translate his play to the NA ice, he's going to be a beauty


----------



## Canucks LB

Actuarial said:


> He is overrated



Can you at least explain your reasoning on why you think he is?

What exactly is it about him? his shot has proven to be amazing, his hands seem solid, is it his strength? what makes him overrated exactly?


----------



## Canucks LB

The timing of those posts have NOT been better.

Look what button just posted.

Cupboard is stocked for up and coming Canucks - Article - TSN

Button has been fantastic in rating prospects in the past few years, he was bullish on boeser like nobody else also


----------



## hallonskal

lawrence said:


> Of all drafted prospects out to here hes been voted by hfboards as the top prospect in the world. Do some research, he’s literally dominating in a men’s league as a 19 year old* without real support. *
> 
> Also no one has compares him as the next Forsberg, although it’s s valid point to bring up that he is scoring as much points as they did but he’s doing it in a era when it’s much harder to score goals. The most exaggerated claim is that he will be a 90 point player. Everything is valid so far.




No real support? 

He is playing for one of the biggest powerhouse teams in SHL, with some of the best players in SHL. You can't have that much better support than he has in SHL.

Elias is already a great prospect, the best one in SHL - there's no need to make stuff up to make him look better than what he is.


----------



## CanuckGame39

Only on HF can a prospect put up a historic season in a professional league in his rookie season and still be called over rated because he's a Canucks prospect.

Just LOL.


----------



## rune74

Lucbourdon said:


> Can you at least explain your reasoning on why you think he is?
> 
> What exactly is it about him? his shot has proven to be amazing, his hands seem solid, is it his strength? what makes him overrated exactly?




He's leading you down the garden path dude, you won't get an answer from him.


----------



## Canucks LB

CanuckGame39 said:


> Only on HF can a prospect put up a historic season in a professional league in his rookie season and still be called over rated because he's a Canucks prospect.
> 
> Just LOL.



LMFAO so spot on


----------



## pomx

mouz135 said:


> Holy **** man, relax. It's not difficult to do a little reading around to see that he is, in fact, viewed as the best prospect not in the NHL. Read some articles, anything. Maybe that'll open your eyes. But to call him overrated, is anything but. And we're not hyping him, he's doing it himself, by breaking U20 records.
> 
> There really is a lot of upset people in here, triggered by the fact that Pettersson is on top of the prospect rankings. Maybe they're upset he wasn't drafted by their team.



Isn’t it obvious people hate on him because he’s a Canuck? If he was a Leafs.. he would be the next Gretzky.


----------



## nowhereman

Actuarial said:


> He is overrated



How many SHL games have you caught this year?

Yeah, that's right...

"He's overrated because I SAID SO!"


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Actuarial said:


> So then why did teams pass on him?
> 
> Great numbers in the SHL dont equal NHL success - he needs to prove it at the NA pro level.



Because no one expected him to put up a historical SHL season at the time of the draft...


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

nowhereman said:


> How many SHL games have you caught this year?
> 
> Yeah, that's right...
> 
> "He's overrated because I SAID SO!"



He is being touted as the best prospect yet two others were taken before him - and both happen to be defenseman. He isnt the best prospect from his draft nor is he even when Hischier and Patrick are taken out.

One season doesn't change that when both the defenseman are having great seasons too (at least Heiskanen is)


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Actuarial said:


> Aggressive? I think youre just being soft lol. Text is interpreted so thats how you chose to take it.
> 
> Idc what articles say, he waa taken behind two other players not in the NHL yet (Hischier and Patrick arent prospects anymore technically) so those two are higher prospects than him until at least the season ends. Then things can change.
> 
> Plus Heiskanen is having a great year as well im pretty sure. Makar I dont know about



I think you're just a wee bit jelly bud. It's ok to admit it


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

Elias Pettersson said:


> I think you're just a wee bit jelly bud. It's ok to admit it



Jealous? Im a fan of the team who got Hischier, hardly jealous.

I think you can't take criticism about your own team's prospect. Just because he is putting up good numbers and other pros did too doesn't make him as good as them or surpass the other prospects who were ranked before him. He is a great prospect and was taken 5th for a reason.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

CanuckGame39 said:


> Only on HF can a prospect put up a historic season in a professional league in his rookie season and still be called over rated because he's a Canucks prospect.
> 
> Just LOL.



That's why i dont take anything that jealous HF haters say seriously. They tried telling us Horvat is a 3rd liner and Boeser would never score in the NHL. Yeah... I'm gonna just listen to myself from now on


----------



## 1972

Elias Pettersson said:


> I think you're just a wee bit jelly bud. It's ok to admit it




I think you have a problem, I can't remember someone in this board being so obnoxiously obsessed with a prospect.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Actuarial said:


> Jealous? Im a fan of the team who got Hischier, hardly jealous.
> 
> I think you can't take criticism about your own team's prospect. Just because he is putting up good numbers and other pros did too doesn't make him as good as them or surpass the other prospects who were ranked before him. He is a great prospect and was taken 5th for a reason.



He's undisputed #1 prospect right now. You're fake news if you think otherwise. Might as well go work for CNN


----------



## Elias Pettersson

1972 said:


> I think you have a problem, I can't remember someone in this board being so obnoxiously obsessed with a prospect.



I do have a problem. A problem with salty haters who spew fake news. Sad!


----------



## 1972

Elias Pettersson said:


> I do have a problem. A problem with salty haters who spew fake news. Sad!




You shouldn't be using your phone in class.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

1972 said:


> You shouldn't be using your phone in class.



Sorry m8


----------



## DDRhockey

1972 said:


> I think you have a problem, I can't remember someone in this board being so obnoxiously obsessed with a prospect.



More like people are salty like f*** in here because pettersson is real good.

I remember people hyping tolvanen like he was jesus christ before he fell off a cliff.

Pettersson on the other hand has never slumped his whole season


----------



## 1972

DDRhockey said:


> More like people are salty like **** in here because pettersson is real good.




He is very good, I don't see many saying otherwise. Just that poster has a hard on for all things Pettersson across multiple threads.


----------



## DDRhockey

1972 said:


> He is very good, I don't see many saying otherwise. Just that poster has a hard on for all things Pettersson across multiple threads.



So? How many leafs fans have a hard on for mattews, nylander and marner? Like 100x worse


----------



## FinPanda

DDRhockey said:


> More like people are salty like **** in here because pettersson is real good.
> 
> I remember people hyping tolvanen like he was jesus christ before he fell off a cliff.
> 
> Pettersson on the other hand has never slumped his whole season



Tolvanen still have had a great season. Pettersson is very good without bashing other teams prospects.


----------



## DDRhockey

FinPanda said:


> Tolvanen still have had a great season. Pettersson is very good without bashing other teams prospects.



Sure but the hype for him was biggest i ever seen.


----------



## 1972

DDRhockey said:


> So? How many leafs fans have a hard on for mattews, nylander and marner? Like 100x worse




Whatever dude, this is pointless


----------



## DDRhockey

1972 said:


> Whatever dude, this is pointless



You started it


----------



## Matte99

DDRhockey said:


> All euros has to adjust to smaller ice. Why is pettersson an exception?
> 
> Kent nilsson was afraid of the physical game in nhl yet he put up 132p in one season.
> 
> How did he score that many? His skill and hockeyiq.



I wouldn't compare him to Kent Nilsson who was scary talented and perhaps one of the most skilled players of his time. Try to find something more reasonable...


----------



## 1972

DDRhockey said:


> You started it




bye


----------



## elitepete

Lmao these replies. Its ok to be jealous of our prospect.


----------



## DDRhockey

Matte99 said:


> I wouldn't compare him to Kent Nilsson who was scary talented and perhaps one of the most skilled players of his time. Try to find something more reasonable...



Kristian huselius is a good comparison.


----------



## 1972

travis scott said:


> Lmao these replies. Its ok to be jealous of our prospect.




I hope you weren’t referring to me. I think he’s a terrific prospect.


----------



## DDRhockey

1972 said:


> I hope you weren’t referring to me. I think he’s a terrific prospect.






> Just that poster has a hard on for all things Pettersson across multiple threads.​





You just got upset that a poster called elias pettersson likes elias pettersson. Why does it bother you.


----------



## elitepete

1972 said:


> I hope you weren’t referring to me. I think he’s a terrific prospect.



Not you. I’m talking about the people spreading misinformation to try to undervalue what Pettersson has done this season.

It’s so transparent.


----------



## JTmillerForA1stLOL

DDRhockey said:


> How are facts embaressing? This is the EP thread. Should he only be bashed in here?
> 
> Plenty of trolls in Elias own thread




This thread has have gone well beyond facts. It's a fact his stats are great. He is in fact progressing very well. I don't think many logical people will dispute that.

Is it a fact that he's the best player from the draft? No. Is it a fact that's he's better than Nico hischier? No. Is it a fact that he's better than Nolan Patrick? No. Those are all opinions. 

When people peddle their opinions as facts it tends to rub others the wrong way.


----------



## elitepete

cadillaccts said:


> This thread has have gone well beyond facts. It's a fact his stats are great. He is in fact progressing very well. I don't think many logical people will dispute that.
> 
> Is it a fact that he's the best player from the draft? No. Is it a fact that's he's better than Nico hischier? No. Is it a fact that he's better than Nolan Patrick? No. Those are all opinions.
> 
> When people peddle their opinions as facts it tends to rub others the wrong way.



I don’t think anyone has tried to “peddle their opinions as fact”.

If anyone has stated that they think he is better than Hischier or Patrick, they have done it as an opinion.


----------



## nowhereman

Actuarial said:


> He is being touted as the best prospect yet two others were taken before him - and both happen to be defenseman. He isnt the best prospect from his draft nor is he even when Hischier and Patrick are taken out.
> 
> One season doesn't change that when both the defenseman are having great seasons too (at least Heiskanen is)



One season doesn't change that? So, wait, you can't re-rank a player based on their current season? Scouts, GMs and analysts are constantly reevaluating prospects, based on their progression. They do it before, during and after the draft. Deal with it.

Your logic is ridiculous.


----------



## MardyBum

Lucbourdon said:


> The timing of those posts have NOT been better.
> 
> Look what button just posted.
> 
> Cupboard is stocked for up and coming Canucks - Article - TSN
> 
> Button has been fantastic in rating prospects in the past few years, he was bullish on boeser like nobody else also




He's actually been all over the place and has made many garbage rankings over the years.

That has nothing to do with Pettersson though. Potato Button or not, he's the best drafted prospect imo.


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

nowhereman said:


> One season doesn't change that? So, wait, you can't re-rank a player based on their current season? Scouts, GMs and analysts are constantly reevaluating prospects, based on their progression. They do it before, during and after the draft. Deal with it.
> 
> Your logic is ridiculous.



Id like to see how Pettersson is doing any better than Heiskanen?


----------



## DDRhockey

Actuarial said:


> Id like to see how Pettersson is doing any better than Heiskanen?



How is he not? Finnish league is a tier below shl.

19 points in liiga compared to 45 in shl. Case closed.


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

DDRhockey said:


> How is he not? Finnish league is a tier below shl.
> 
> 19 points in liiga compared to 45 in shl. Case closed.



One is a forward the other is a defenseman. 

Those rose tinted glasses are blinding you.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Actuarial said:


> One is a forward the other is a defenseman.
> 
> Those rose tinted glasses are blinding you.



Nope. No rose glasses. The majority of HF also agrees. You're the one in the minority here.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-top-nhl-prospect-right-now.2436873/


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

Elias Pettersson said:


> Nope. No rose glasses. The majority of HF also agrees. You're the one in the minority here.
> 
> http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-top-nhl-prospect-right-now.2436873/



I cant see polls.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Actuarial said:


> I cant see polls.



Pettersson won by a landslide. Ainec


----------



## whitstifier

Elias Pettersson said:


> Pettersson won by a landslide. Ainec



You need to find other sources of validation


----------



## kanuck87

whitstifier said:


> You need to find other sources of validation




Where are the recent sources that say Heiskanen is the better prospect?


----------



## whitstifier

kanuck87 said:


> Where are the recent sources that say Heiskanen is the better prospect?



emotional validation - Google Search


----------



## lawrence

Actuarial said:


> I cant see polls.




Too many violation marks will do that.

oh and btw

Cupboard is stocked for up-and-coming Canucks - Article - TSN


----------



## Josepho

Actuarial said:


> Id like to see how Pettersson is doing any better than Heiskanen?




Yeah they're pretty much neck and neck.

Gun to my head I take Pettersson based on the fact that he flawlessly moved up leagues and has had a better trajectory over the past year.. Was very high on Heiskanen all of last year though and thought Dallas made the right choice scooping him up at 3.


----------



## WonderTwinsUnite

just where I stand:

Pettersson is having a historic season as a U-20 player in the SHL, rivalled only by Peter Forsberg and Kent Nilsson, arguably the two most skilled Swedish forwards in history.

Given that he's outscored Nicklas Backstrom, a 100-point center in his prime, at the same age, I think it's fair to place Pettersson's potential in the modern NHL at around 85-90 points, assuming he won't have a guy like Ovechkin to play with.

Similarly with Heiskanen, he's producing at a rate that Liiga has only seen from Reijo Ruotsalainen as a a U-19 defender.

Given that Ruotsalainen ended his NHL career with the highest-ever P/G among Finnish-born defenders (344 points in 446 games = 0.77 P/G), it's at least conceivable that Heiskanen could pull off the modern equivalent, which given the decrease in scoring is about a 50-point defender in today's NHL. Adding in Heiskanen's advanced defensive game and overall skillset, you're looking at one of the best overall defenders in the game if he pans out, similar to a Matthias Ohlund, but without the eye injury.

It's tough to go against one of those two on sheer potential, which I feel are the two highest in the draft class, but given Hischier's performance in the NHL already, I think most would rightfully still take him #1, though it's certainly not "AINEC" in either direction.

He's got a Zetterberg-esque skillset, and though I feel he's going to top out around 75 points in his prime (completely subjective), I don't think you can discount how impressive the transition he's made is, with his age and frame coming into the season. He's going to get a lot better, and he's already pretty damn good in the best league in the world.

I would probably rank them:

Pettersson (Admitted bias as a Canucks fan)
Heiskanen
Hischier

But I retyped that order three times before posting, to give you an idea of how close I think it is.

Anyone who thinks this isn't close, regardless of how one orders them, is being asinine and refusing to recognize the context of the seasons these players are puttimg up.


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

WonderTwinsUnite said:


> just where I stand:
> 
> Pettersson is having a historic season as a U-20 player in the SHL, rivalled only by Peter Forsberg and Kent Nilsson, arguably the two most skilled Swedish forwards in history.
> 
> Given that he's outscored Nicklas Backstrom, a 100-point center in his prime, at the same age, I think it's fair to place Pettersson's potential in the modern NHL at around 85-90 points, assuming he won't have a guy like Ovechkin to play with.
> 
> Similarly with Heiskanen, he's producing at a rate that Liiga has only seen from Reijo Ruotsalainen as a a U-19 defender.
> 
> Given that Ruotsalainen ended his NHL career with the highest-ever P/G among Finnish-born defenders (344 points in 446 games = 0.77 P/G), it's at least conceivable that Heiskanen could pull off the modern equivalent, which given the decrease in scoring is about a 50-point defender in today's NHL. Adding in Heiskanen's advanced defensive game and overall skillset, you're looking at one of the best overall defenders in the game if he pans out, similar to a Matthias Ohlund, but without the eye injury.
> 
> It's tough to go against one of those two on sheer potential, which I feel are the two highest in the draft class, but given Hischier's performance in the NHL already, I think most would rightfully still take him #1, though it's certainly not "AINEC" in either direction.
> 
> He's got a Zetterberg-esque skillset, and though I feel he's going to top out around 75 points in his prime (completely subjective), I don't think you can discount how impressive the transition he's made is, with his age and frame coming into the season. He's going to get a lot better, and he's already pretty damn good in the best league in the world.
> 
> I would probably rank them:
> 
> Pettersson (Admitted bias as a Canucks fan)
> Heiskanen
> Hischier
> 
> But I retyped that order three times before posting, to give you an idea of how close I think it is.
> 
> Anyone who thinks this isn't close, regardless of how one orders them, is being asinine and refusing to recognize the context of the seasons these players are puttimg up.



Hischier 3rd is why your post wont be taken seriously
Hischier producing at 19 in the NHL? 75-point potential - Pettersson producing more than NHL star Nicklas Backstrom when he was 19, 80+ point potential

LOL. And this is exactly why he is overrated


----------



## DDRhockey

Pretty sure pettersson has 80p potential. Kent nilsson scored 132p and peter forsberg 116p


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Having high expectations is fine. I'm excited about Pettersson too. But turning this thread into a petty "our prospect is better than your prospect" thread, while dismissing or even belittling other talented players before he's played an NHL game is pointless. The Heiskanen comparison based on points was laughable.

How old are you guys?


----------



## WonderTwinsUnite

Actuarial said:


> Hischier 3rd is why your post wont be taken seriously
> Hischier producing at 19 in the NHL? 75-point potential - Pettersson producing more than NHL star Nicklas Backstrom when he was 19, 80+ point potential
> 
> LOL. And this is exactly why he is overrated




It's absolutely possible - in fact, pretty damn frequent year-to-year - that a good 18-year-old who comes into the NHL right away, is passed over by a guy who didn't. This is just one key example from each season.

2010: Skinner (ROY) over Tarasenko
2011: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (ROY) over Kucherov
2012: Gabe Landeskog (ROY) over Filip Forsberg
2014: Aaron Ekblad (ROY)/Sam Reinhart over William Nylander/Nik Ehlers

2013, 2015, and 2016's ROY were Mackinnon, McDavid, Matthews, and I don't believe Hischier has been nearly as dominant as those guys were to warrant your derision. It's absolutely possible that Hischier gets passed up, if not likely. And at this point, I believe Pettersson and Heiskanen are the most likely to do it.


----------



## DDRhockey

2006 draft erik johnson over backstrom, kessel,toews


----------



## ginner classic

Elias Pettersson said:


> Nope. No rose glasses. The majority of HF also agrees. You're the one in the minority here.
> 
> http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-top-nhl-prospect-right-now.2436873/




Canucks fan. I still have Heiskanen rated ahead and would happily swap those two. 

I respect the poll results though.


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

WonderTwinsUnite said:


> It's absolutely possible - in fact, pretty damn frequent year-to-year - that a good 18-year-old who comes into the NHL right away, is passed over by a guy who didn't. This is just one key example from each season.
> 
> 2010: Skinner (ROY) over Tarasenko
> 2011: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (ROY) over Kucherov
> 2012: Gabe Landeskog (ROY) over Filip Forsberg
> 2014: Aaron Ekblad (ROY)/Sam Reinhart over William Nylander/Nik Ehlers
> 
> 2013, 2015, and 2016's ROY were Mackinnon, McDavid, Matthews, and I don't believe Hischier has been nearly as dominant as those guys were to warrant your derision. It's absolutely possible that Hischier gets passed up, if not likely. And at this point, I believe Pettersson and Heiskanen are the most likely to do it.



Likely Hischier gets passed over, LOL

This thread is full of good laughs


----------



## DDRhockey

Actuarial said:


> Likely Hischier gets passed over, LOL
> 
> This thread is full of good laughs



I will be laughing at this time next year


----------



## The Iron Goalie

Pettersson, and Heiskanen are both awesome. Lets get back to discussing Pettersson pls.


----------



## DDRhockey

2015-2016 tier 2 men

2536*9 *
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]2016-2017 tier 2 men

431922*41*
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]2017-2018 highest level sweden men

351728*45*
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]Petterssons development has just skyrocketed. If he follows this linear progression he will put up 50-60p in his rookie nhl season.


I just cant believe these numbers.


----------



## WhatWhat

DDRhockey said:


> How is he not? Finnish league is a tier below shl.
> 
> 19 points in liiga compared to 45 in shl. Case closed.





While its definitely open for discussion and its more than reasonable to think Petterson is a better prospect, this point is horrendous. You dont consider games played (23 vs 35) you dont consider position (D vs F). You dont consider a ton of other things. If Petterson wasnt out scoring Heiskanen then that would be a problem


----------



## whitstifier

WonderTwinsUnite said:


> just where I stand:
> 
> Pettersson is having a historic season as a U-20 player in the SHL, rivalled only by Peter Forsberg and Kent Nilsson, arguably the two most skilled Swedish forwards in history.
> 
> Given that he's outscored Nicklas Backstrom, a 100-point center in his prime, at the same age, I think it's fair to place Pettersson's potential in the modern NHL at around 85-90 points, assuming he won't have a guy like Ovechkin to play with.
> 
> I would probably rank them:
> 
> Pettersson (Admitted bias as a Canucks fan)
> Heiskanen
> Hischier
> 
> But I retyped that order three times before posting, to give you an idea of how close I think it is.
> 
> Anyone who thinks this isn't close, regardless of how one orders them, is being asinine and refusing to recognize the context of the seasons these players are puttimg up.




Backstrom played on a middling Brynas. Pettersson plays on a super team. Terrible comparison


----------



## DDRhockey

whitstifier said:


> Backstrom played on a middling Brynas. Pettersson plays on a super team. Terrible comparison



Super team, with rookie pettersson 10 more points than the next guy in vaxjo.


Or should we disregard crosbys accomplishments because he played on super teams in pittsburgh and canada?


----------



## whitstifier

DDRhockey said:


> Super team, with rookie pettersson 10 more points than the next guy in vaxjo.
> 
> 
> Or should we disregard crosbys accomplishments because he played on super teams in pittsburgh and canada?




Holy absurd reduction, Batman!

There's value in understanding context


----------



## DDRhockey

whitstifier said:


> Holy absurd reduction, Batman!
> 
> There's value in understanding context



Especially when you make hyperbolic statements. Pettersson has 10 more points then the next guy. Do i need to say it again?

Moving goalposts all the time.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

WonderTwinsUnite said:


> It's absolutely possible - in fact, pretty damn frequent year-to-year - that a good 18-year-old who comes into the NHL right away, is passed over by a guy who didn't. This is just one key example from each season.
> 
> 2010: Skinner (ROY) over Tarasenko
> 2011: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (ROY) over Kucherov
> 2012: Gabe Landeskog (ROY) over Filip Forsberg
> 2014: Aaron Ekblad (ROY)/Sam Reinhart over William Nylander/Nik Ehlers
> 
> 2013, 2015, and 2016's ROY were Mackinnon, McDavid, Matthews, and I don't believe Hischier has been nearly as dominant as those guys were to warrant your derision. It's absolutely possible that Hischier gets passed up, if not likely. And at this point, I believe Pettersson and Heiskanen are the most likely to do it.



Actually im pretty sure that whoever plays in nhl first always becomes the superior player


----------



## elitepete

whitstifier said:


> Backstrom played on a middling Brynas. Pettersson plays on a super team. Terrible comparison



Pettersson’s team is not that good offensively


----------



## hallonskal

travis scott said:


> Pettersson’s team is not that good offensively




Sure they aren't, it's not like they have scored the second most goals in the SHL (only 3 less than the team that has scored more goals and way more than the third placed team) and it's not as if they are known to be one of the best (maybe the best) offensive teams in the league for the last ~5 years and scored most goals in the SHL last season (without Pettersson). 

I understand that people try to make their own teams prospects look good but lately I see different users that are coming up with all kinds of different lies to make Pettersson look better than what he is, why not talk about what makes him good instead? There are so many positive things to say about him, there's no need to try to decieve people to convince them that he is a good prospect.


----------



## VictorLustig

travis scott said:


> Pettersson’s team is not that good offensively




2nd highest scoring team in the league. That's pretty good.


----------



## DDRhockey

Ferros said:


> Sure they aren't, it's not like they have scored the second most goals in the SHL (only 3 less than the team that has scored more goals and way more than the third placed team) and it's not as if they are known to be one of the best (maybe the best) offensive teams in the league for the last ~5 years and scored most goals in the SHL last season (without Pettersson).
> 
> I understand that people try to make their own teams prospects look good but lately I see different users that are coming up with all kinds of different lies to make Pettersson look better than what he is, why not talk about what makes him good instead? There are so many positive things to say about him, there's no need to try to decieve people to convince them that he is a good prospect.



When kent nilsson scored 53p in SHL, every game had 4.86 goals scored compared to 2.68 today.

So if you are going to downplay his performance take that into account



VictorLustig said:


> 2nd highest scoring team in the league. That's pretty good.



Usually the highest scoring team has the league leaders. News at 11


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

Ferros said:


> Sure they aren't, it's not like they have scored the second most goals in the SHL (only 3 less than the team that has scored more goals and way more than the third placed team) and it's not as if they are known to be one of the best (maybe the best) offensive teams in the league for the last ~5 years and scored most goals in the SHL last season (without Pettersson).
> 
> I understand that people try to make their own teams prospects look good but lately I see different users that are coming up with all kinds of different lies to make Pettersson look better than what he is, why not talk about what makes him good instead? There are so many positive things to say about him, there's no need to try to decieve people to convince them that he is a good prospect.





I dont know what whine and cheese party that was all about but back to topic.

Elias pettersson is the first SHL player to score half his goals w. A right handed stick and half his other goals w. A left handed stick. 

He has yet to declare which hand he will dominate the NHL with.


----------



## hallonskal

DDRhockey said:


> When kent nilsson scored 53p in SHL, every game had 4.86 goals scored compared to 2.68 today.
> 
> So if you are going to downplay his performance take that into account




How did I downplay his performance? I just told the user to not make up lies, it had nothing to do with Petterssons performance. Just because facts don't suit your agenda doesn't mean that someone is trying to downplay Pettersson.

Anyway, I'm out of here. It's obvious that this thread is not about discussing Elias Pettersson as a prospect anymore.


----------



## Numba9

whitstifier said:


> Holy absurd reduction, Batman!
> 
> There's value in understanding context




The context is that Pettersson has 10 more points than the next player on the team while play 6 fewer games. The main reason why Vaxjo is 2nd in the league offensively is Pettersson.


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Ferros said:


> How did I downplay his performance? I just told the user to not make up lies, it had nothing to do with Petterssons performance. Just because facts don't suit your agenda doesn't mean that someone is trying to downplay Pettersson.
> 
> Anyway, I'm out of here. It's obvious that this thread is not about discussing Elias Pettersson as a prospect anymore.




Stay and post, please. Otherwise it will just be those two with zero balanced discussion.


----------



## whitstifier

DDRhockey said:


> Especially when you make hyperbolic statements. Pettersson has 10 more points then the next guy. Do i need to say it again?
> 
> Moving goalposts all the time.






travis scott said:


> Pettersson’s team is not that good offensively






Numba9 said:


> The context is that Pettersson has 10 more points than the next player on the team while play 6 fewer games. The main reason why Vaxjo is 2nd in the league offensively is Pettersson.




Reread my post and the OP. I was responding to someone who directly compared point totals of Backstrom and Pettersson. I think it's more meaningful to make a context based comparison.

Y'all need to understand what you're responding to before getting outraged.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

ScottishCanuck said:


> Stay and post, please. Otherwise it will just be those two with zero balanced discussion.



Reasoning and having a calm discussion isn't popular these days...


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

whitstifier said:


> Reread my post and the OP. I was responding to someone who directly compared point totals of Backstrom and Pettersson. I think it's more meaningful to make a context based comparison.
> 
> Y'all need to understand what you're responding to before getting outraged.



I tried pointing this out a week ago and got loads of "Get out of here! FAKE NEWS!"-comments. It's nice to see that some knowledgeable people finally showed up


----------



## lawrence

Ok let me get this straight, reasons he’s actually not as good, is because, the quality of players he’s playing against in today’s sel is not as good as they were 10 seasons ago, correct ? Is that what a few are trying to say ? So now your trying to promote he’s not that good? But not as good a what though ?


----------



## nowhereman

whitstifier said:


> Holy absurd reduction, Batman!
> 
> There's value in understanding context



One could argue that one of the biggest reasons Vaxjo is so good is because they have the best player in the SHL on their team.


----------



## lawrence

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> I tried pointing this out a week ago and got loads of "Get out of here! FAKE NEWS!"-comments. It's nice to see that some knowledgeable people finally showed up




Ok ok, so,he’s not as good....... is because....... his team is loaded with talent or that he has more skilled players to work with so he’s season actually a fluke? If you said yes,,,, ,

I will say, 
But he’s leading the 2nd deadliest team in scoring by 10 points as a 19 year old, so that automatically debunks that idea that he’s riding in a hot team cause he’s the one leading this team meanwhile missing 7 games due to wjc, or are you gonna toss that’s out the window a super invalid because “he’s riding” on the 2nd highest scoring team in the league ? Or are you gonna then say “well he’s playing against weaker players now different league then it was 10 years ago blah blah blah”?

Pls kindly quote so I can notified. Like to hear your answer.


----------



## ijuka

nowhereman said:


> One could argue that one of the biggest reasons Vaxjo is so good is because they have the best player in the SHL on their team.



One could argue that, though the truth is that Vaxjö Lakers won the regular season in 16-17 so that's not really believable.


----------



## Brock Boeser Laser Show

Even if you want to ignore the Backstrom comparison and focus on more recent comparisons I think Elias comes out looking very good. 

Filip Forsberg and Nylander are both 60+ point studs in the NHL and Pettersson has even better numbers in the Allvenskan and SHL over the past two years.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

lawrence said:


> Ok ok, so,he’s not as good....... is because....... his team is loaded with talent or that he has more skilled players to work with so he’s season actually a fluke? If you said yes,,,, ,
> 
> I will say,
> But he’s leading the 2nd deadliest team in scoring by 10 points as a 19 year old, so that automatically debunks that idea that he’s riding in a hot team cause he’s the one leading this team meanwhile missing 7 games due to wjc, or are you gonna toss that’s out the window a super invalid because “he’s riding” on the 2nd highest scoring team in the league ? Or are you gonna then say “well he’s playing against weaker players now different league then it was 10 years ago blah blah blah”?
> 
> Pls kindly quote so I can notified. Like to hear your answer.



How are you still not getting it? This is a lost cause..


----------



## Elias Pettersson

I don't know why people bother responding to jealous haters. Their points have all been debunked. Why do you need others to acknowledge. Let them think Pettersson is a bust. Cant stop people from being WRONG


----------



## VictorLustig

nowhereman said:


> One could argue that one of the biggest reasons Vaxjo is so good is because they have the best player in the SHL on their team.




If you were to ask the GM's of all teams, journalists and "TV experts" etc. who the best player in the SHL is, almost everyone would answer Joakim Lindström. Sorry if I offended anyone with this post.


----------



## BROCK HUGHES

DDRhockey said:


> 2015-2016 tier 2 men
> 
> 2536*9 *
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]2016-2017 tier 2 men
> 
> 431922*41*
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]2017-2018 highest level sweden men
> 
> 351728*45*
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Petterssons development has just skyrocketed. If he follows this linear progression he will put up 50-60p in his rookie nhl season.
> 
> 
> I just cant believe these numbers.



Yeah and that all depends who he is playing with,,,if its with Boeser yes i can see it,,,if they bury him with Eriksson,,,i dont see it,,,


----------



## whitstifier

We're not saying that Pettersson's a fluke...

Flyers fans follow Vaxjo because Hogberg is on the team. The possession #s for all Lakers players are bonkers this season.


----------



## 42

I can't believe he got left out of the top 100 players list.


----------



## WonderTwinsUnite

VictorLustig said:


> If you were to ask the GM's of all teams, journalists and "TV experts" etc. who the best player in the SHL is, almost everyone would answer Joakim Lindström. Sorry if I offended anyone with this post.




You probably did offend someone . Honestly, though, he's exceeded any and all expectations that fans or detractors could have had for this season. Whether he's _the _best player in a re-draft, or _the _best player in the SHL, is all noise until he hits the ice in the NHL. It's all just idle chatter until he makes good on the promise he's displaying, and really isn't worth getting upset about either way (not saying you are).

As for people resorting to calling poster "jealous haters" because they have a different opinion, grow up. It's actually cringe-worthy when you can't accept that there might be legitimate reasons to hold back a bit of optimism on EP, especially when they're backed up by facts or sound logic.


----------



## lawrence

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> ause..




?????

2017-18 Swedish Hockey League [SweHL] standings at hockeydb.com

2006-07 Sweden Elitserien [SEL] standings at hockeydb.com

you're trying to sound like smart ass while going nowhere. We know what your trying to do, and it's not working. We can see what through it.

Pettersson is one of the top scorers in a league playing against men as a 19 year old, not a tier 2 league, but Swedens top leauge. He is not tagging along side another ringer, or is he playing along side another elite prospect, like what the Sedins did.

add to the fact,
he is running away as a points leader on his team, among his teammates as a 19 year old,
actually a 19 year old rookie in the Swedish elite league, in impressive, leading his team in scoring is already unheard of,
let alone leading by so many points while missing 8 games, on top of that, almost leading the entire leauge of men in points while missing 8 games , gtfo JAS 39 Gripen, take whitstifier with you while your at it. He's been posting like he's f***ing drunk. It's like you want to slam him, but don't know how to say it, so make passive aggressive smart ass comments that no one even knows what your trying to get too

and oh btw

Backstrom had points on 27% of his teams goals
Pettersson has points on 31% of his teams goals.



JAS 39 Gripen said:


> This is a lost cause..




if this is a lost cause please don't drop by this thread again.


2017-18 Swedish Hockey League [SweHL] standings at hockeydb.com

2006-07 Sweden Elitserien [SEL] standings at hockeydb.com
2017-18 Swedish Hockey League [SweHL] standings at hockeydb.com

2006-07 Sweden Elitserien [SEL] standings at hockeydb.com



whitstifier said:


> We're not saying that Pettersson's a fluke...
> 
> Flyers fans follow Vaxjo because Hogberg is on the team. The possession #s for all Lakers players are bonkers this season.





whitstifier said:


> We're not saying that Pettersson's a fluke...
> 
> Flyers fans follow Vaxjo because Hogberg is on the team. The possession #s for all Lakers players are bonkers this season.




which makes it even more impressive then. Leading the best team in points as a 19 year old. 
which is even harder to do, then to lead a mediocre team in points while missing 8 games.

so what if he didn't miss 8 games? he be leading by 20 points then.

thank you for the free ammunition whitstifier


----------



## Orca Smash

whitstifier said:


> We're not saying that Pettersson's a fluke...
> 
> Flyers fans follow Vaxjo because Hogberg is on the team. The possession #s for all Lakers players are bonkers this season.




Thankfully they were "bonkers" last season with Timra as well, his seal adjusted scoring was tops in his draft class.

Nation Network 2017 Prospect Profiles: #5 – Elias Pettersson


----------



## lawrence

Orca Smash said:


> Thankfully they were "bonkers" last season with Timra as well, his seal adjusted scoring was tops in his draft class.




he was top 10 in scoring in a mens leauge last year also, this as an 18 year old. All while missing games because of wjc. His linemate was 19 year old, not some veteran in that league but another 19 year old.


----------



## whitstifier

Orca Smash said:


> Thankfully they were "bonkers" last season with Timra as well, his seal adjusted scoring was tops in his draft class.
> 
> Nation Network 2017 Prospect Profiles: #5 – Elias Pettersson




You misunderstood me. Most of the Lakers have outstanding Corsi numbers. They're a strong possession team that would be competitive without Pettersson. Of course, Pettersson makes them a lot better as well.


----------



## lawrence

whitstifier said:


> You misunderstood me. Most of the Lakers have outstanding Corsi numbers. They're a strong possession team that would be competitive without Pettersson. Of course, Pettersson makes them a lot better as well.




show me the corsi numbers.


----------



## whitstifier

lawrence said:


> show me the corsi numbers.




It'll take a summoning of @Appleyard since he tracks the data himself IIRC


----------



## DDRhockey

VictorLustig said:


> If you were to ask the GM's of all teams, journalists and "TV experts" etc. who the best player in the SHL is, almost everyone would answer Joakim Lindström. Sorry if I offended anyone with this post.



Lindstrom plays on a loaded superline. See? I can play this game too.


----------



## ginner classic

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> How are you still not getting it? This is a lost cause..




Homer fans can't have intelligent discussions about their own prospects. I am a looooong suffering nux fan and I find the dogma in this thread a bit embarrassing. 

Pettersson's performances have been great. Maybe we can broaden our thinking a bit and understand that we still have no idea what this kid can do in the NHL. Exciting development in d+1 yes....but the comparisons are bunk.


----------



## elitepete

42 said:


> I can't believe he got left out of the top 100 players list.



You’re so jealous it’s hilarious


----------



## nobody

I think EP is going to end up being a very good 2C in the NHL someday. Great find for the Canucks! If they can find a #1C with him and Horvat solidifying the #2/#3 spots, the Canucks will have a great team down the middle for years to come.


----------



## JTmillerForA1stLOL

King Clancy said:


> I think EP is going to end up being a very good 2C in the NHL someday. Great find for the Canucks! If they can find a #1C with him and Horvat solidifying the #2/#3 spots, the Canucks will have a great team down the middle for years to come.




Ah, the subtle insult disguised as a compliment. 

Well played.


----------



## Appleyard

whitstifier said:


> It'll take a summoning of @Appleyard since he tracks the data himself IIRC




I only have them until mid-December... as just dont have the time since (planning a move to different country, job, family etc) but here were his stats from then:

59.73% CF% (4th on Vaxjo, 12th in SHL)
+4.23 CF Rel (4th on Vaxjo, 48th in SHL)
59.25 CF/60 (7th on Vaxjo, 22nd in SHL)
39.94 CA/60 (4th on Vaxjo, 14th in SHL)


----------



## nowhereman

King Clancy said:


> I think EP is going to end up being a very good 2C in the NHL someday. Great find for the Canucks! If they can find a #1C with him and Horvat solidifying the #2/#3 spots, the Canucks will have a great team down the middle for years to come.



Pettersson projects as a #1 center and the idea that Bo Horvat will be a #3 center is ludicrous. He’s already a very good #2.


----------



## Ace of Hades

nowhereman said:


> Pettersson projects as a #1 center and the idea that Bo Horvat will be a #3 center is ludicrous. He’s already a very good #2.




and also Horvat has shown he can produce pretty decently on the top line facing top pairing D.


----------



## 42

travis scott said:


> You’re so jealous it’s hilarious



Actually, I'm not. I have him in my hockey pool so I hope all the hype is real  Just couldn't help given some of the extreme enthusiasm in this thread.


----------



## whitstifier

Appleyard said:


> I only have them until mid-December... as just dont have the time since (planning a move to different country, job, family etc) but here were his stats from then:
> 
> 59.73% CF% (4th on Vaxjo, 12th in SHL)
> +4.23 CF Rel (4th on Vaxjo, 48th in SHL)
> 59.25 CF/60 (7th on Vaxjo, 22nd in SHL)
> 39.94 CA/60 (4th on Vaxjo, 14th in SHL)




Oop, my bad I think you'd mentioned this previously!


----------



## ulvvf

VictorLustig said:


> If you were to ask the GM's of all teams, journalists and "TV experts" etc. who the best player in the SHL is, almost everyone would answer Joakim Lindström. Sorry if I offended anyone with this post.





I think the reason for that is becasue they are very conservative, saying that a young skinny rookie player is the best in the league over a veteran is not really anything you would expect from those people almost no matter how obvious it is. Sweden is also the country where we celebrate the medicore players more than the star players. 

But do it matter that much if he is second best or best really? It is hard to deny that he is atleast a top 3 player.


----------



## nobody

nowhereman said:


> Pettersson projects as a #1 center and the idea that Bo Horvat will be a #3 center is ludicrous. He’s already a very good #2.



I don't think he's ever going to make it as a #1C. I think he would be an elite #2C and with Horvat as #3C the Canucks can absolutely kill opposing teams because they can't possibly shutdown that depth.




cadillaccts said:


> Ah, the subtle insult disguised as a compliment.
> 
> Well played.




It wasn't an insult. I don't know why some fans in this thread get so butt hurt over peoples opinions. Take things for what they are.

I don't think he's got the size to put up with the grind of being a #1C in the western conference. All teams are big and he doesn't have exceptional speed to separate him. He has great skill though. I see him long term project to be a player similar to RNH. A former #1 pick who has done fantastic for himself on a disaster of a franchise.


----------



## canuckslover10

King Clancy said:


> I think EP is going to end up being a very good 2C in the NHL someday. Great find for the Canucks! If they can find a #1C with him and Horvat solidifying the #2/#3 spots, the Canucks will have a great team down the middle for years to come.



Um he is our future 1C


----------



## Frankie Blueberries

canuckslover10 said:


> Um he is our future 1C




Yep, if everything goes according to the plan,he'll be our Krejci and Horvat will be our Bergeron. Gaudette in the #3 spot.


----------



## Ace of Hades

King Clancy said:


> I don't think he's ever going to make it as a #1C. I think he would be an elite #2C and with Horvat as #3C the Canucks can absolutely kill opposing teams because they can't possibly shutdown that depth.
> 
> I don't think he's got the size to put up with the grind of being a #1C in the western conference. All teams are big and he doesn't have exceptional speed to separate him. He has great skill though. I see him long term project to be a player similar to RNH. A former #1 pick who has done fantastic for himself on a disaster of a franchise.




Petersson has flaws and isn't completely ready, but that doesn't mean he isn't capable of being a top line center, as long as he bulks and improves his development, the sky is the limit for him. He has shown some very excellent milestones in the SHL.

Horvat will be on the team's top 6 forward position for a very long time.. There's no way he'll be on the third line. He has improved his offensive production every year, regardless of the linemates given to him over the few years he's been in the organization. He has shown he can handle top minutes, and produce against top pairing D. He also has shown he can handle tough minutes at any position, and is strong, physical faceoff. He can blow by the opposition with his speed, and capable of overpowering defenders with his mass to score goals, and can score in any given way.

Horvat is a top 6 C on many many teams.


----------



## nobody

Sayonara77 said:


> Petersson has flaws and isn't completely ready, but that doesn't mean he isn't capable of being a top line center, as long as he bulks and improves his development, the sky is the limit for him. He has shown some very excellent milestones in the SHL.
> 
> Horvat will be on the team's top 6 forward position for a very long time.. There's no way he'll be on the third line. He has improved his offensive production every year, regardless of the linemates given to him over the few years he's been in the organization. He has shown he can handle top minutes, and produce against top pairing D. He also has shown he can handle tough minutes at any position, and is strong, physical faceoff. He can blow by the opposition with his speed, and capable of overpowering defenders with his mass to score goals, and can score in any given way.
> 
> Horvat is a top 6 C on many many teams.



Can you find me current NHL comparables to Pettersson? I can't recall any players with his physical trajectory becoming #1C in the NHL without a physical game. Only guy I can think of is Claude Giroux and he was a chippy little guy with massive skill.

As for Horvat, I know he's a fantastic top 6 guy, I'm just saying that if he was thrown in as a shutdown 3C he could overpower the other teams with his two way play. It's to the benefit of the Canucks.


----------



## nobody

50 Sheas of Grey said:


> Yep, if everything goes according to the plan,he'll be our Krejci and Horvat will be our Bergeron. Gaudette in the #3 spot.



Krejci isn't a 1C though.



canuckslover10 said:


> Um he is our future 1C



I don't think he ever cuts it long term as the 1C unless the Nucks have 0 other options. I see Pettersson as a future RNH type player with a little more offense and worse D.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

King Clancy said:


> Can you find me current NHL comparables to Pettersson? I can't recall any players with his physical trajectory becoming #1C in the NHL without a physical game. Only guy I can think of is Claude Giroux and he was a chippy little guy with massive skill.
> 
> As for Horvat, I know he's a fantastic top 6 guy, I'm just saying that if he was thrown in as a shutdown 3C he could overpower the other teams with his two way play. It's to the benefit of the Canucks.




Sedins. 6"1 180lbs at their peak.


----------



## Frankie Blueberries

King Clancy said:


> *Krejci isn't a 1C though.*
> 
> 
> I don't think he ever cuts it long term as the 1C unless the Nucks have 0 other options. I see Pettersson as a future RNH type player with a little more offense and worse D.




He has been at different points of his career. The point is that you can win a Cup with two great #2 centres. I think, in terms of point production, Krejci is a decent comparable to Pettersson's potential.


----------



## nobody

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> Sedins. 6"1 180lbs at their peak.



Sedins also had each other and took a long time to mature into their game. But you are correct. That's a solid example. Who else can you think of?


----------



## nobody

50 Sheas of Grey said:


> He has been at different points of his career. The point is that you can win a Cup with two great #2 centres.* I think, in terms of point production, Krejci is a decent comparable to Pettersson's potential.*




100% Agreed


----------



## elitepete

42 said:


> Actually, I'm not. I have him in my hockey pool so I hope all the hype is real  Just couldn't help given some of the extreme enthusiasm in this thread.



Nah you’re still jealous. I’ve seen your other posts in this thread.

You wish so badly that he played for your favourite team.


----------



## elitepete

King Clancy said:


> Krejci isn't a 1C though.
> 
> 
> I don't think he ever cuts it long term as the 1C unless the Nucks have 0 other options. I see Pettersson as a future RNH type player with a little more offense and worse D.



He plays nothing like RNH


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

King Clancy said:


> Sedins also had each other and took a long time to mature into their game. But you are correct. That's a solid example. Who else can you think of?




Kyle Turris is another tall skinny guy that had succeeded at center.

It can be done, if Pettersson can get near 190lbs there are plenty of solid NHL centers that play at that weight.

Most likely like the Sedins or Turris it will take some patience as it will take longer than average to reach his potential due to lack of strength. But in the end with enough training tall skinny guys are able to get strong enough to compete and Pettersson will get there and fulfill his potential of a #1 center.


----------



## docbenton

Elias has more issues than just his weight. He needs to play at a higher pace and attack the middle of the ice more often. At this junction he is still too much of a perimeter player, especially at even strength. Stronger players can play at a slower pace by protecting the puck, but Elias is going to struggle with that for the foreseeable future.

On the plus side he's not soft like some skilled players and he plays diligently on the defensive side.


----------



## ulvvf

docbenton said:


> Elias has more issues than just his weight. He needs to play at a higher pace and attack the middle of the ice more often. At this junction he is still too much of a perimeter player, especially at even strength. Stronger players can play at a slower pace by protecting the puck, but Elias is going to struggle with that for the foreseeable future.
> 
> On the plus side he's not soft like some skilled players and he plays diligently on the defensive side.





His production in 5v5 is excelllent. 

I remember people saying similar stuff about the sedins. Perimeter players that will not succed in NHL. 

But sure he is not a lock for success in NHL. But usually players that has that much talent find a way.


----------



## 42

travis scott said:


> Nah you’re still jealous. I’ve seen your other posts in this thread.
> 
> You wish so badly that he played for your favourite team.



I don't have a favorite team.


----------



## CloutierForVezina

King Clancy said:


> Can you find me current NHL comparables to Pettersson? I can't recall any players with his physical trajectory becoming #1C in the NHL without a physical game. Only guy I can think of is Claude Giroux and he was a chippy little guy with massive skill.
> 
> As for Horvat, I know he's a fantastic top 6 guy, I'm just saying that if he was thrown in as a shutdown 3C he could overpower the other teams with his two way play. It's to the benefit of the Canucks.




Datsyuk?


----------



## nobody

CloutierForVezina said:


> Datsyuk?



If he's half as good as Datsyuk that'd be a win for the Canucks and the kid. I unfortunately don't think he's got the offensive or defensive abilities that Dats had. That said Datsyuk is an example of a smaller guy being a #1C. I agree.


----------



## EK47

Pettersson isn't exactly small he's 6"2 he's lanky as hell though.


----------



## Yamazaki

Fun player to watch. More skilled than I imagined. I wonder how much bigger he’s going to get.


----------



## Orca Smash

docbenton said:


> Elias has more issues than just his weight. He needs to play at a higher pace and attack the middle of the ice more often. At this junction he is still too much of a perimeter player, especially at even strength. Stronger players can play at a slower pace by protecting the puck, but Elias is going to struggle with that for the foreseeable future.
> 
> On the plus side he's not soft like some skilled players and he plays diligently on the defensive side.




I often see reports on players like this and what your describing is a play style you would like to see. Guys like mcdavid love to attack the middle of the ice and if you have elite speed and skill you can, but many elite players also play a more cerebral game that dont have that blinding speed, pettersson simply plays a bit more of an east/west thinking style of game. Someone like boeser does as well and the sedins to. All players have a certain style that varies it just depends on wether they are effective playing that style of game. Sounds like you prefer a more direct north/south game someone like mittlestadt plays.


----------



## Orca Smash

King Clancy said:


> I don't think he's ever going to make it as a #1C. I think he would be an elite #2C and with Horvat as #3C the Canucks can absolutely kill opposing teams because they can't possibly shutdown that depth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't an insult. I don't know why some fans in this thread get so butt hurt over peoples opinions. Take things for what they are.
> 
> I don't think he's got the size to put up with the grind of being a #1C in the western conference. All teams are big and he doesn't have exceptional speed to separate him. He has great skill though. I see him long term project to be a player similar to RNH. A former #1 pick who has done fantastic for himself on a disaster of a franchise.




He will be a 1st line winger before he is a 2c imo, given his development and where he stands with other elite company in shl history for his D+1 season if he would not be able to stick as a top line center he would be shifted to a top line winger. If he cant stick as a 1c given his production and development putting him as a 2c and continuing to try to push him as a center would mean he would not be adapting as expected or reaching his potential.


----------



## eviohh26

King Clancy said:


> If he's half as good as Datsyuk that'd be a win for the Canucks and the kid. I unfortunately don't think he's got the offensive or defensive abilities that Dats had. That said Datsyuk is an example of a smaller guy being a #1C. I agree.



Dats was 195. And his body strength was crazy for his size. Took people a while to learn you cant run the guy.


----------



## Josepho

King Clancy said:


> Sedins also had each other and took a long time to mature into their game. But you are correct. That's a solid example. Who else can you think of?




They didn't take long as much as they were just stuck with a ridiculously dominant line taking all of their minutes.


----------



## nobody

Josepho said:


> They didn't take long as much as they were just stuck with a ridiculously dominant line taking all of their minutes.



Fair


----------



## docbenton

Orca Smash said:


> I often see reports on players like this and what your describing is a play style you would like to see. Guys like mcdavid love to attack the middle of the ice and if you have elite speed and skill you can, but many elite players also play a more cerebral game that dont have that blinding speed, pettersson simply plays a bit more of an east/west thinking style of game. Someone like boeser does as well and the sedins to. All players have a certain style that varies it just depends on wether they are effective playing that style of game. Sounds like you prefer a more direct north/south game someone like mittlestadt plays.




I do prefer how Mittelstadt plays, but I wouldn't describe that as more north/south...after all to get from the perimeter to the middle you have to go either east or west. Too often Pettersson skates up the wing and either makes a pass or gets squeezed out. Not exactly thrilling or particularly dangerous. Boeser does an excellent job of cutting into the middle of the ice with the puck, that's how he is able to get a good number of his scoring chances.

Not saying he can't develop or adapt but just don't love the way he plays with the puck right now. Needs to play with more pace and guts. It's funny that he has more bravado without the puck than with, for example on the forecheck where he's very aggressive.


----------



## lawrence

King Clancy said:


> Sedins also had each other and took a long time to mature into their game. But you are correct. That's a solid example. Who else can you think of?




Henrik sedin has been 6’2 180 lbs for the longest time. Daniel is 6’1 190. Another tall and light 1st line centre I can think of is Patrice Bergeron who is 6,1 185.


----------



## 42

Is his team on break or something? There hasn't been any chatter in this thread for 9 days!


----------



## Prntscrn

42 said:


> Is his team on break or something? There hasn't been any chatter in this thread for 9 days!




Yes it's a break for the olympics. League starts again on saturday


----------



## Albatros

Though Brynäs and Örebro played last week despite the break, but Växjö didn't.


----------



## Peeps

finally a break of this thread lmao


----------



## Phil McKraken

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> Sedins. 6"1 180lbs at their peak.




The Sedins have different proportions than Pettersson though, it's their lower body strength that makes it so hard to knock them off the puck. Pettersson looks to have a higher center of gravity.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

MrJonas said:


> The Sedins have different proportions than Pettersson though, it's their lower body strength that makes it so hard to knock them off the puck. Pettersson looks to have a higher center of gravity.




When the Sedins first came into the league they were extremely easy to knock off the puck. Took them a quite a few years to get strong enough to compete. I'm assuming the same thing will happen with Pettersson, will take a few more years than fans would like but he will end up being an elite top line Center


----------



## BlueGreen

Vaxjo back in action again today after a little layoff, and Pettersson rips home his 18th of the season. He's now two points away from Peter Forsberg.


----------



## BenningHurtsMySoul

One of the few reasons to continue to follow this team.

Should be a Calder contender for next season if he can add some weight.


----------



## elitepete

GoodBetterBoest said:


> One of the few reasons to continue to follow this team.
> 
> Should be a Calder contender for next season if he can add some weight.



He is 170 currently. If he can get to 175, that would be good enough for now.


----------



## Peeps

travis scott said:


> He is 170 currently. If he can get to 175, that would be good enough for now.




#40 Elias Pettersson

On the SHL website he is 160 lbs right now.


----------



## M2Beezy

Peeps said:


> #40 Elias Pettersson
> 
> On the SHL website he is 160 lbs right now.



So hes losing weight now?? Thats not good maybe he wont be ready for the nhl next season that kinda sucks


----------



## Askel

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> So hes losing weight now?? Thats not good maybe he wont be ready for the nhl next season that kinda sucks



They are not weighing guy during the season and putting it up a SHL´s website. Just like the NHL the weights are reported before the season starts.

Also by the way a lot of players actually loose weight during a season, to many games and not enough rest will do that to you.


----------



## VictorLustig

Strength on the ice is what matters, weight is just a by-product. Gonna take time but he will get there


----------



## Carl Carlson

VictorLustig said:


> Strength on the ice is what matters, weight is just a by-product. Gonna take time but he will get there




Agreed. He doesn't seem like the type that will magically put on 20 lbs of muscle in one off season but over the next 2-3 years he'll likely put on some added weight and become a lot stronger on the puck.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

See weight below






Look left


----------



## Peeps




----------



## lawrence

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> So hes losing weight now?? Thats not good maybe he wont be ready for the nhl next season that kinda sucks




good news for you. More Canuck prospects for you to rip on.


----------



## M2Beezy

lawrence said:


> good news for you. More Canuck prospects for you to rip on.



You wish Benning boy


----------



## lawrence

Please don't try to play victim.


----------



## M2Beezy

lawrence said:


> Please don't try to play victim.



Check below my username pal. PETTERSSON

Get with it for a change bub


----------



## terrible dee

Sayonara77 said:


> Petersson has flaws and isn't completely ready, but that doesn't mean he isn't capable of being a top line center, as long as he bulks and improves his development, the sky is the limit for him. He has shown some very excellent milestones in the SHL.
> 
> Horvat will be on the team's top 6 forward position for a very long time.. There's no way he'll be on the third line. He has improved his offensive production every year, regardless of the linemates given to him over the few years he's been in the organization. He has shown he can handle top minutes, and produce against top pairing D. He also has shown he can handle tough minutes at any position, and is strong, physical faceoff. He can blow by the opposition with his speed, and capable of overpowering defenders with his mass to score goals, and can score in any given way.
> 
> Horvat is a top 6 C on many many teams.




Your post reads like you cut/pasted cliches and stuck them together.

But if you "Improve your development" "The sky could be the limit for you",

Excuse me now, I'm going to go "Bulk up" and "handle some tough minutes in any position"

(Hopefully not "blowing the opposition" )


----------



## terrible dee

whitstifier said:


> Reread my post and the OP. I was responding to someone who directly compared point totals of Backstrom and Pettersson. I think it's more meaningful to make a context based comparison.
> 
> Y'all need to understand what you're responding to before getting outraged.




Can you all knock it the f**k off?

-Stop being some butt-hurt fan-boi, YOU have no IDEA how he's going to turn out..PERIOD, this is a DISCUSSION board, where different takes on available info make things....NOT BORING, if you can't discuss a topic, then go wack it to his picture or something.

-Don't argue endlessly with children, the feeble, or the Canucks hired "Astroturfers" the first two aren't capable of having a proper discussion, the last WANTS these threads destroyed by endless circular B.S arguments, DON'T FEED THEM


----------



## Ace of Hades

terrible dee said:


> Your post reads like you cut/pasted cliches and stuck them together.
> 
> But if you "Improve your development" "The sky could be the limit for you",
> 
> Excuse me now, I'm going to go "Bulk up" and "handle some tough minutes in any position"
> 
> (Hopefully not "blowing the opposition" )




Oh look what we have here. Very agressive mannered.

Not sure what made you so angsty, your panties all wet or something?. Might want to loosen your condenscending attitude since its making you look like a pathetic asshat.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

I dont think anyone hates Canucks fans more than Canucks fans.

I also dont think anyone hates the Canucks team more than Canucks fans.


----------



## JTmillerForA1stLOL

Elias Pettersson said:


> I dont think anyone hates Canucks fans more than Canucks fans.
> 
> I also dont think anyone hates the Canucks team more than Canucks fans.





Oh yeah? Wanna fight about it?


----------



## Siludin

Pettersson more like Bettersson


----------



## DDRhockey

Peeps said:


> #40 Elias Pettersson
> 
> On the SHL website he is 160 lbs right now.



One year old stat


----------



## IComeInPeace

In an interview on Dec 20th 2017, Pettersson states he’s up to ‘76 kg’s now’ (from 161 pounds).
76 kg’s = 167.5 pounds

He’s probably showing up to training camp around 175-180 pounds. 180 might be a bit optimistic.


----------



## Dominator13

I saw that he was ranked n.1 in the current prospect list. What’s the projection on that kid and who does he resemble most? I don’t follow prospects as much as I used too..


----------



## Askel

Pax Macioretty said:


> I saw that he was ranked n.1 in the current prospect list. What’s the projection on that kid and who does he resemble most? I don’t follow prospects as much as I used too..



He projects as an elite 1st line center. Scoring at spectacular pace in the SHL. Great hands, vision and an elite shot.

His weakness is strength and that he could stand to improve his skating a bit, docent really have that top gear.


----------



## IComeInPeace

I’d agree with the above.
He’s a good skater...but a top gear would do that much more for him.
Very smart player. Sees the ice exceptionally well, and has a great shot.
Also has good defensive awareness and commitment.

His game could benefit greatly from increased size and strength (he has skinny little legs and it seems like his speed would improve not to mention he’d be a lot harder to knock off the puck).

A concern is that he doesnt have the frame to put on significant size/strength.
He’s 6’2”, but was only 161 pounds at the time of the draft.
Normally, that wouldn’t be that big a deal, but he has an older brother (Emil) that’s a good hockey player, that never really filled out (I believe he’s 23 and 6’1” and 170 pounds).

I’d guess the main concern with Elias is that due to a lack of size, with less time and space at the NHL level, he becomes a PP specialist.

I couldn’t give you a comparison NHL player, but some compare him to Datsyuk in style.


----------



## docbenton

IComeInPeace said:


> I’d agree with the above.
> He’s a good skater...but a top gear would do that much more for him.
> Very smart player. Sees the ice exceptionally well, and has a great shot.
> Also has good defensive awareness and commitment.
> 
> His game could benefit greatly from increased size and strength (he has skinny little legs and it seems like his speed would improve not to mention he’d be a lot harder to knock off the puck).
> 
> A concern is that he doesnt have the frame to put on significant size/strength.
> He’s 6’2”, but was only 161 pounds at the time of the draft.
> Normally, that wouldn’t be that big a deal, but he has an older brother (Emil) that’s a good hockey player, that never really filled out (I believe he’s 23 and 6’1” and 170 pounds).
> 
> I’d guess the main concern with Elias is that due to a lack of size, with less time and space at the NHL level, he becomes a PP specialist.
> 
> I couldn’t give you a comparison NHL player, but some compare him to Datsyuk in style.




He doesn't really have the skill or dynamism in his feet of Datsyuk (then again who does?). Offensive style is something between a Toews and a Kuznetsov.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

He could take some notes from Dahlin and learn a bit about dedication - Rasmus reportedly went up 2-3 kg in muscle during the Olympic break


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> He could take some notes from Dahlin and learn a bit about dedication - Rasmus reportedly went up 2-3 kg in muscle during the Olympic break



Yeah that’s not really physically possible. 
1 kg in 1 month would be amazing, especially for a 17 yo.


----------



## kanuck87

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Yeah that’s not really physically possible.
> 1 kg in 1 month would be amazing, especially for a 17 yo.




Not to mention it's unlikely that he's gaining muscle during the season.


----------



## JTmillerForA1stLOL

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Yeah that’s not really physically possible.
> 1 kg in 1 month would be amazing, especially for a 17 yo.




It's possible if you're Russian.


----------



## Breakers

kanuck87 said:


> Not to mention it's unlikely that he's gaining muscle during the season.




Yeah I remember that Subban documentary where he said he loses so much weight during the course of the season.


----------



## cjm502

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> He could take some notes from Dahlin and learn a bit about dedication - Rasmus reportedly went up 2-3 kg in muscle during the Olympic break



2-3kg is possible, 2-3kg of muscle though?


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Yeah that’s not really physically possible.
> 1 kg in 1 month would be amazing, especially for a 17 yo.



"Not physically possible"? Where have you read that?



kanuck87 said:


> Not to mention it's unlikely that he's gaining muscle during the season.




Well, he played like 3 shifts in 4 weeks. Training camp in Sweden for 7-10 days, Olympics 3 weeks.


----------



## LordNeverLose

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> "Not physically possible"? Where have you read that?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, he played like 3 shifts in 4 weeks. Training camp in Sweden for 7-10 days, Olympics 3 weeks.



Gaining 6 pounds of muscle in one month would be f***ing insane. No way that's possible unless you're on some serious juice.


----------



## Oliewud

i remember when people didnt want to draft ehlers because he was 160lbs...


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

LordNeverLose said:


> Gaining 6 pounds of muscle in one week would be ****ing insane. No way that's possible unless you're on some serious juice.



How did you get that to ”one week”?.....


----------



## LordNeverLose

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> How did you get that to ”one week”?.....



Meant one month, just mis-typed it


----------



## lawrence

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> He could take some notes from Dahlin and learn a bit about dedication - Rasmus reportedly went up 2-3 kg in muscle during the Olympic break



Pettersson was able to add 1
kg over the break actually. Hate on my friend hate on.


----------



## elitepete

lawrence said:


> Pettersson was able to add 1
> kg over the break actually. Hate on my friend hate on.



How do you know this?


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

travis scott said:


> How do you know this?



FOX News, I recon


----------



## whitstifier

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Yeah that’s not really physically possible.
> 1 kg in 1 month would be amazing, especially for a 17 yo.




I thought .5 kg/wk was pretty feasible? I don't think it's possible to gain that sort of mass during the wear and tear of the hockey season, though.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

whitstifier said:


> I thought .5 kg/wk was pretty feasible? I don't think it's possible to gain that sort of mass during the wear and tear of the hockey season, though.



Since he only played around 5-6 shifts in 4 weeks, I dont think it's impossible.


----------



## lawrence

travis scott said:


> How do you know this?






JAS 39 Gripen said:


> FOX News, I recon




from the same source that told you Dhalin was able to add 3 kgs over the 2 week break.

I guess whoever isn't able to add 3kg of muscle which is 6.6 lbs is not dedicated.

keep the hate coming my friend keep the passive aggression coming.


----------



## M2Beezy

cadillaccts said:


> It's possible if you're Russian.



Hes not Russian hes from Sweden. And i doubt they could either pal


----------



## Frolov 6'3

Is this is a hockey site or weight watchers ?


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

lawrence said:


> from the same source that told you Dhalin was able to add 3 kgs over the 2 week break.
> 
> I guess whoever isn't able to add 3kg of muscle which is 6.6 lbs is not dedicated.
> 
> keep the hate coming my friend keep the passive aggression coming.



Youre so defensive. What two weeks?
If you dont agree with someone or have a discussion, do you always retaliate with ”whatever hater”?


----------



## DanCloutiers5hole

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> Hes not Russian hes from Sweden. And i doubt they could either pal




 I think he's implying that the Russians are known to use ulterior methods to weight training an muscle building


----------



## DDRhockey

Jas 39 stinking up the pettersson thread again. Same guy who was too bad for olympics lol


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

whitstifier said:


> I thought .5 kg/wk was pretty feasible? I don't think it's possible to gain that sort of mass during the wear and tear of the hockey season, though.



Of pure muscle? MAYBE if you have amazing genes and just started working out.
Over a longer period of time that is impossible.


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> Hes not Russian hes from Sweden. And i doubt they could either pal


----------



## Aqualung

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> He could take some notes from Dahlin and learn a bit about dedication - Rasmus reportedly went up 2-3 kg in muscle during the Olympic break



Not possible to put on that much in strictly muscle in less than three weeks. Total weight, maybe, but that implies he put on some fat and maybe water weight as well. Also, how does this imply that Pettersson is not dedicated? Why take shots at him?


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Aqualung said:


> Not possible to put on that much in strictly muscle in less than three weeks. Total weight, maybe, but that implies he put on some fat and maybe water weight as well. Also, how does this imply that Pettersson is not dedicated? Why take shots at him?



It was a wink towards Elias who havnt put on any weight at all since the draft combine (maybe 1-2 kgs?)


----------



## DDRhockey

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> It was a wink towards Elias who havnt put on any weight at all since the draft combine (maybe 1-2 kgs?)



what a surprise. As soon as olympics is over you are here again. Admit it was a failure to not put Pettersson on the swedish fiasco team. Jocke Lindstrom 0 points, LMAO. How is your crow?


----------



## whitstifier

bottomofthefoodchain said:


> Of pure muscle? MAYBE if you have amazing genes and just started working out.
> Over a longer period of time that is impossible.




Fair enough. Pettersson is super young, so bulking should be easier in general. Of course the growth model would approach a finite number over a longer period of time. This isn't Dragon Ball Z!


----------



## Aqualung

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> It was a wink towards Elias who havnt put on any weight at all since the draft combine (maybe 1-2 kgs?)



It wasn't a wink though. You said he wasn't dedicated. Do you have any kind of proof that he isn't dedicated? I've trained for a long time in my life and not everyone is built the same and you must always understand that.

He may have to put in much more effort than the average player to have the same strength gain. Or it may be the case that he hasn't done enough to do that. But unless you know something the public doesn't, your taking an unsubstantiated shot at a player for your own amusement to see how others react. That's the definition of trolling.


----------



## DDRhockey

he just picked up another point. About to pass Peter Forsberg


----------



## Addison Rae

DDRhockey said:


> he just picked up another point. About to pass Peter Forsberg



Tied him with a goal


----------



## Breakers

Oliewud said:


> i remember when people didnt want to draft ehlers because he was 160lbs...




Pastrnak
Guenztel
Nylander
Ehlers 

All players who weighed between 160-169ibs at the draft.


----------



## DanCloutiers5hole

I really don't get this obsession with his size and weight , skill and compete level will always trump it. Look no further than Johnny Gadreau , kid is elite and he looks like he hasn't even gone through puberty


----------



## deckercky

whitstifier said:


> Fair enough. Pettersson is super young, so bulking should be easier in general. Of course the growth model would approach a finite number over a longer period of time. This isn't Dragon Ball Z!




We should get records of his growth during the first 3 months of his life and do a linear projection of that growth for 25 years to see what we should expect. Based on that, I anticipate evidence that Pettersson is likely to grow to a thousand pound, 20 foot giant.


----------



## King In The North

He's gonna be fine. If I remember correctly Giroux also entered the league at under 170lbs


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Aqualung said:


> It wasn't a wink though. You said he wasn't dedicated. Do you have any kind of proof that he isn't dedicated? I've trained for a long time in my life and not everyone is built the same and you must always understand that.
> 
> He may have to put in much more effort than the average player to have the same strength gain. Or it may be the case that he hasn't done enough to do that. But unless you know something the public doesn't, your taking an unsubstantiated shot at a player for your own amusement to see how others react. That's the definition of trolling.



Well, the big knock on him and why he fell in his draft was mostly b/c of his size and lack of strenght. No one is questioning his offensive abilities. The fact that he hasnt grown that much at all since his draft + how bad he still handles small spaces and harder forechecks shows that he hasnt worked that hard on it, no? Sure, it could be that it's hard for him to put on size, but when it's his major flaw that even himself realizes (watch his draft interviews) one would think that's something he would be working on.


----------



## My3Sons

Does he have any older siblings for comparison purposes? Might provide some idea of a realistic growth curve. As always the issue with bulking up fast is whether it impacts his speed and agility. He’s better off going the natural route based on the game he plays.


----------



## The Iron Goalie

My3Sons said:


> Does he have any older siblings for comparison purposes? Might provide some idea of a realistic growth curve. As always the issue with bulking up fast is whether it impacts his speed and agility. He’s better off going the natural route based on the game he plays.



Yes Emil Pettersson who plays in the Nashville system. Emil is 6'2 and 185lbs.


----------



## Szechwan

Dude ties Forsbergs statline and you guys are already back to whining about how much he weighs


----------



## Zombotron




----------



## Aqualung

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> Well, the big knock on him and why he fell in his draft was mostly b/c of his size and lack of strenght. No one is questioning his offensive abilities. The fact that he hasnt grown that much at all since his draft + how bad he still handles small spaces and harder forechecks shows that he hasnt worked that hard on it, no? Sure, it could be that it's hard for him to put on size, but when it's his major flaw that even himself realizes (watch his draft interviews) one would think that's something he would be working on.




He didn't fall in the draft, on the contrary, he was a riser.

I wasn't questioning his offensive ability nor accusing you of saying that.

The fact he hasn't grown as much as you personally would like since the draft doesn't indicate his motivation, dedication, or work ethic one way or the other. He also said in an interview that he's made some strength gains and knows he needs to do better. But I haven't read anything that indicates he's not a motivated or dedicated hockey player not trying to get better. You would only be guessing at this point that he's not "dedicated". You don't get to be as good of a player as he is without putting the time in.


----------



## Lexus

Better FPS on this clip though. (Goal)


----------



## Brock Boeser Laser Show

Hockey IQ/Hockey sense and talent is what matters at that age and Pettersson has that in droves. How many swedes weren't lanky/skinny as teenagers? Most of them don't fully mature until early/mid 20's. I remember the Sedins at the same age and they weren't much bigger than Pettersson is now.


----------



## My3Sons

OEL for Norris said:


> Yes Emil Pettersson who plays in the Nashville system. Emil is 6'2 and 185lbs.




That's probably a realistic projection. Maybe he works a little harder for the NHL and he's 190 when he peaks. Have to imagine that is fine. Maybe takes him a couple of years to get there so he gets bounced around while he develops. He won't be the first NHL young player that happens to.


----------



## thelittlecoon

Brock Boeser Laser Show said:


> I remember the Sedins at the same age and they weren't much bigger than Pettersson is now.



You mean the Sedins who were drafted at 195lbs each? They were actually kind of chubby teens, don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## Brock Boeser Laser Show

thelittlecoon said:


> You mean the Sedins who were drafted at 195lbs each? They were actually kind of chubby teens, don't know what you're talking about.




lol if they are 195 I'm 220.

Prime Sedins were around 190.


----------



## thelittlecoon

Brock Boeser Laser Show said:


> lol if they are 195 I'm 220.
> 
> Prime Sedins were around 190.



Pretty sure those numbers are accurate and they obviously shed the weight. Why bother saying "the Sedins at the same age weren't much bigger than Pettersson now" when you have no idea what you're talking about?


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

OEL for Norris said:


> Yes Emil Pettersson who plays in the Nashville system. Emil is 6'2 and 185lbs.




Where did you get that information from? Almost all sites have him listed at 6'2 176lbs. He was listed at 6'1 158 when draft so he's put on almost 20lbs.

If Pettersson does the same since he was drafted at 165lbs he should end up in the 185lb range. Still light for a tall NHL centerman but should be adequate for him considering his skill and intelligence.


----------



## Brock Boeser Laser Show

thelittlecoon said:


> Pretty sure those numbers are accurate and they obviously shed the weight. Why bother saying "the Sedins at the same age weren't much bigger than Pettersson now" when you have no idea what you're talking about?



where did you get your numbers from? a picture where they have suits clearly too big for them?


----------



## thelittlecoon

Brock Boeser Laser Show said:


> where did you get your numbers from? a picture where they have suits clearly too big for them?



I got my numbers from the source, the 1999 NHL Draft broadcast. More valid then you spouting nonsense hoping it sticks.


----------



## 42

So what's next for Pettersson? SHL regular season is over in 5 games for him then playoffs? Is he at all expected to sign this year and play in the NHL? I can't see a reason for the Canucks to bring him over this season.


----------



## kanuck87

42 said:


> So what's next for Pettersson? SHL regular season is over in 5 games for him then playoffs? Is he at all expected to sign this year and play in the NHL? I can't see a reason for the Canucks to bring him over this season.




If he can get in a handful of games, I don't see why the Canucks dont bring him over. That's what they did with Boeser.


----------



## 42

kanuck87 said:


> If he can get in a handful of games, I don't see why the Canucks dont bring him over. That's what they did with Boeser.



I guess as long as it's <10 games, it's fine.


----------



## elitepete

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> It was a wink towards Elias who havnt put on any weight at all since the draft combine (maybe 1-2 kgs?)



Incorrect.


----------



## Brock Boeser Laser Show

thelittlecoon said:


> I got my numbers from the source, the 1999 NHL Draft broadcast. More valid then you spouting nonsense hoping it sticks.



I'm not spouting non sense. My point was that most Swedes tend to finish development in early 20's. Sedins weren't even close to being physically developed at 19 but put on muscle just like Pettersson will over each summer.


----------



## thelittlecoon

Brock Boeser Laser Show said:


> I'm not spouting non sense. My point was that most Swedes tend to finish development in early 20's. Sedins weren't even close to being physically developed at 19 but put on muscle just like Pettersson will over each summer.



That's not what you said though. You said they weren't much bigger – they were 30lbs heavier at the time of the draft. I'd say they were much bigger even if they weren't physically developed yet. They are bad examples to use as their body type is nothing like Elias'.


----------



## CanuckGame39

Page 85 and people are still talking about his ****ing weight LOL.


----------



## Kelly

CanuckGame39 said:


> Page 85 and people are still talking about his ****ing weight LOL.



Something I've noticed here is if the only thing people can find to rag on is a prospects weight that's usually a good sign.


----------



## Samzilla

Kelly said:


> Something I've noticed here is if the only thing people can find to rag on is a prospects weight that's usually a good sign.




don't forget pettersson's 48 points are only worth about 29 backstrom points


----------



## LemonSauceD

So Pettersson ties Forsberg's U20 totals of any rookie in the SHL with 48pts, now needs 6 more points in his remaining 5 games to tie Kent Nilsson's PPG for a U-20 player in the SHL which is the highest ever (54pts in 36gp). Unbelievable season he's having.

Kent Nilsson did it in a different era where teams were scoring 6-8 goals a night and in less games played but Pettersson is doing it in an era where it's a lot more defensively oriented and a lot harder competition.

So far Pettersson is looking like the 2nd best player from his draft behind Hischer. But that could easily change by next year.

Hopefully he gains 10lbs and plays at around 180lbs at the start of training camp. And then move on from there.


----------



## Siludin

Why are people hating on Pettersson's size when fighting and hitting is as dead as dead?

Speed league now, guys - Kucherov, Gaudreau, Giroux


----------



## GetFocht

if the only complaint is his weight, that's a good thing.


----------



## Hokinaittii

I think you can expect Pettersson always to be kind of skinny player with great skill instead of a muscular player who shines in physical battles.


----------



## The Iron Goalie

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> Where did you get that information from? Almost all sites have him listed at 6'2 176lbs. He was listed at 6'1 158 when draft so he's put on almost 20lbs.
> 
> If Pettersson does the same since he was drafted at 165lbs he should end up in the 185lb range. Still light for a tall NHL centerman but should be adequate for him considering his skill and intelligence.




The AHL has him listed as such. He's been playing there most of the season, so I assume the 185 is from seasons start. 

As for being light for the NHL at 185 I'm not so sure. The Sedins have played at around 185 for their careers, and they can't skate, and like you said I.Q + skill will likely win out regardless. Elias should be fine once fully matured.


----------



## Grub

Great player


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

OEL for Norris said:


> The AHL has him listed as such. He's been playing there most of the season, so I assume the 185 is from seasons start.
> 
> As for being light for the NHL at 185 I'm not so sure. The Sedins have played at around 185 for their careers, and they can't skate, and like you said I.Q + skill will likely win out regardless. Elias should be fine once fully matured.




Ya they do have him listed as such. Probably the most up to date information as well and good news for Elias, he seems to have the same body type as his bother and Emil put on close to 30lbs after he was drafted. Hopefully Elias can do the same. If Pettersson can put on enough strength and weight to be able to shield defenders with the puck and win board battles he's going to be an absolute force to be reckoned with.


----------



## GeorgeLeafer12

Fans put too much weight on weight , its quality over quantity.
Besides, big bulky body is slower and less durable than strong slim body

I highly doubt Petterson needs to be 190-200+ pound player to have successful career in the NHL
today's NHL is so much different what it was.


----------



## Cancuks

Gaudreau is 157 lbs. Size doesn't matter.


----------



## Sergei Shirokov

Its looking like a good thing Makar wasn't available at our pick. What a season Pettersson is having.


----------



## Club

Anyone have a possible floor/ceiling for this guy?


----------



## Scott Malkinson

Mittelstadt said:


> Anyone have a possible floor/ceiling for this guy?




Floor is a 50 point forward.

Ceiling is top 10 forward on the planet.


----------



## bossram

Sergei Shirokov said:


> Its looking like a good thing Makar wasn't available at our pick. What a season Pettersson is having.




I would have been furious if we took Makar. Thank god he wasn't available.


----------



## Andy Dufresne

Lexus said:


> Better FPS on this clip though. (Goal)





I'm just bumping this because it needs to be bumped. I could say more, but the video speaks for itself. I think it's safe to say, very few players have hands like this guy.


----------



## Killerjas

Mittelstadt said:


> Anyone have a possible floor/ceiling for this guy?




Floor is AHL player, ceiling is the best player in the world.


----------



## Derp Kassian

reading the beginning of this thread to now is very funny. Didn't think he had that many critics.


----------



## lakers11

At this rate Id be disappointed if he doesnt turn out to be the best swedish FW in the world.

Sweden needs more quality FWs. We all know the defense is stacked but we've gone downhill on the FW side


----------



## DDRhockey




----------



## tony d

I think he's going to be a good 1. Guys like him, Horvat and Boeser are going to be integral parts of the post-Sedin world in Vancouver.


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

JAS 39 Gripen said:


> It was a wink towards Elias who havnt put on any weight at all since the draft combine (maybe 1-2 kgs?)




Lmao... EP ties Forsbergs season and Jas is salty about EPs weight. 

Do you even watch NHL hockey??

If you do then youd realize that 3 of the top 5 leading point scorers are 3 of the smallest guys in the league. Kucherov, Giroux, Gaudreau.


----------



## Icebreakers

Killerjas said:


> Floor is AHL player, ceiling is the best player in the world.




The floor is a top player in the SHL, which he already is, and the ceiling is a top 10-5 player in the world.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

DownGoesMcDavid said:


> Lmao... EP ties Forsbergs season and Jas is salty about EPs weight.
> 
> *Do you even watch NHL hockey??*
> 
> If you do then youd realize that 3 of the top 5 leading point scorers are 3 of the smallest guys in the league. Kucherov, Giroux, Gaudreau.



Oh my


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Cancuks said:


> Gaudreau is 157 lbs. Size doesn't matter.



Gaudreau is an elite skater though


----------



## GetFocht

Petterson has put up a generational season in the SHL, there is nothing more he can possibly do to have a stellar D+1 season. Perfect timing for the Sedins to pass the torch to our future #1 C. 

Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Gaudette, Demko, Juolevi, 2018 top 5 pick...the future is bright.


----------



## member 105785

Mittelstadt said:


> Anyone have a possible floor/ceiling for this guy?




Floor is a 40 pt complementary fwd, ceiling is a top 5 C in the NHL


----------



## BenningHurtsMySoul

This guy is our future, plain and simple. 

Far and away the best prospect in the world.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

GoodBetterBoest said:


> This guy is our future, plain and simple.
> 
> Far and away the best prospect in the world.



Uh no. Dahlin


----------



## Habs76

Elias Pettersson said:


> Uh no. Dahlin



Crazy to think both are Swedes


----------



## VictorLustig

Second in SHL scoring, 3 points behind the leader who might be out for a while with an injury. Would be neat to see him win the scoring title. 5 games remaining.


----------



## DDRhockey

Forsberg surpassed


----------



## Diamonddog01

2nd all time now. No chance for 1st but 2nd is a very impressive accomplishment.

Edit: Hadn't looked at the leaderboard for quite a while, and now that he's 4 points away there's a strong possibility he does it!


----------



## The Iron Goalie

The Goal.


----------



## GetFocht

breaks a 25 year old record...generational.


----------



## The Iron Goalie

Diamonddog01 said:


> 2nd all time now. No chance for 1st but 2nd is a very impressive accomplishment.




Do you mean PPG wise? If not there is a very good chance he can tie/pass Kent Nilsson, as he is 5 points back with 4.33 games remaining.


----------



## rune74

It's funny the back flips some are doing to tell us why this is bad...


----------



## GetFocht

I still think Pettersson will surpass 1st in points. He is just 5 behind.


----------



## Brock Boeser Laser Show

PorscheDesign said:


> I still think Pettersson will surpass 1st in points. He is just 5 behind.



4


----------



## ulvvf

Elias Pettersson said:


> Uh no. Dahlin





I think he meant among drafted players outside NHL.


----------



## ScottishCanuck

OEL for Norris said:


> Do you mean PPG wise? If not there is a very good chance he can tie/pass Kent Nilsson, as he is 5 points back with 4.33 games remaining.




4 now. Another assist


----------



## GetFocht

50 points!


----------



## The Iron Goalie

Assist.


----------



## Diamonddog01

OEL for Norris said:


> Do you mean PPG wise? If not there is a very good chance he can tie/pass Kent Nilsson, as he is 5 points back with 4.33 games remaining.




No, my bad. I hadn't checked the all-time leaders in a while and thought Nilsson was much farther ahead than he is.


----------



## ulvvf

The best player in SHL this season, and I do not know who other you have been able to say that about in their D+1 year.


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

He is the hill I will die on
Either he’s going to become the best player of 2017, or the 2nd best behind Nico Hischier


----------



## lakers11

Elias has 20 goals and 26 assist in his last 33 games. Nice

He said he was nervous at the start of the season playing with the likes of Pesonen, nervous in making mistakes. Coach had a talk with him and the rest is history


----------



## Icebreakers

He started out slow too. I think he only had 9 points in his first 11 or so games. with 1 goal.


----------



## Love

lakers11 said:


> Elias has 20 goals and 26 assist in his last 33 games. Nice
> 
> He said he was nervous at the start of the season playing with the likes of Pesonen, nervous in making mistakes. Coach had a talk with him and the rest is history




That is just insane. What a player.


----------



## DDRhockey

I could see elias surpass nico couple of years from now. People will lose their mind now when I said it.


----------



## BlueGreen

Elias Pettersson said:


> Uh no. Dahlin



Ok let’s get him too and we’ll have both.


----------



## mouz135

DDRhockey said:


> I could see elias surpass nico couple of years from now. People will lose their mind now when I said it.



Better duck for cover after saying that. You'll have a mob after you

With that said, I'll agree with you. Flame me all you want, I see EP becoming the best player from that draft year.


----------



## Blade Paradigm

It's great to see Pettersson thrive in the SHL. The season he is having is unprecedented.

I will say this about those who justifiably express concerns about his strength: the worry is not necessary about his _weight_, but about his ability to push through traffic, especially at the NHL level where there is much less room to operate than in the SHL and opponents are generally larger and more powerful.

Elias is a finesse player whose game is all about maneuvering around the opposition and creating chances with skill. He has a terrific shot, hands, and vision, but I would not say that he is the most mobile skater.

On NHL regulation-sized ice, I have never seen him win board battles or fight through traffic to get to where he needs to be. While one can not rule out his ability to do so, he remains unproven. The NHL is becoming a fast, skilled league, but players either need to be quick enough to elude the opposition's check or be strong enough to push through it. Not even Connor McDavid, with his quick hands _and_ explosive skating ability, can always maneuver around the opposition -- one would have to imagine how much more difficult it would be for him if his skating was only average.

To see Elias Pettersson become the NHL's next great Swedish superstar would be special, especially for the Vancouver Canucks franchise whose heritage is deeply interwoven with Swedish connections. However, the degree to which Pettersson's game might be impacted by an inability to find time and space in traffic remains a concern. By NHL standards, the World Junior game is completely wide open; the NHL is a tight-checking league.


----------



## DDRhockey

Blade Paradigm said:


> It's great to see Pettersson thrive in the SHL. The season he is having is unprecedented.
> 
> I will say this about those who justifiably express concerns about his strength: the worry is not necessary about his _weight_, but about his ability to push through traffic, especially at the NHL level where there is much less room to operate than in the SHL and opponents are generally larger and more powerful.
> 
> Elias is a finesse player whose game is all about maneuvering around the opposition and creating chances with skill. He has a terrific shot, hands, and vision, but I would not say that he is the most mobile skater.
> 
> On NHL regulation-sized ice, I have never seen him win board battles or fight through traffic to get to where he needs to be. While one can not rule out his ability to do so, he remains unproven. The NHL is becoming a fast, skilled league, but players either need to be quick enough to elude the opposition's check or be strong enough to push through it. Not even Connor McDavid, with his quick hands _and_ explosive skating ability, can always maneuver around the opposition -- one would have to imagine how much more difficult it would be for him if his skating was only average.



Backstrom and sedins are not fast skaters


----------



## Blade Paradigm

DDRhockey said:


> Backstrom and sedins are not fast skaters



The Sedins have always have excellent strength on their skates, making them a hassle to play against along the boards. Their power game has always been massively underrated.

Nicklas Backstrom weighs 210 lbs. He is heavy enough on his skates to push through traffic.

One can't rule out an eventual increase to a sufficient level of strength in the NHL for Pettersson. Kyle Turris and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins both took several years to mature into 190-lb players with sufficient balance on their skates not to be impeded as easily by the opposition.

Pettersson either needs to become quicker or much stronger, though, than he currently is. He struggles in traffic, and one off-season might not be enough for him to completely overcome this issue. The NHL opposition closes in so quickly on the puck carrier and on loose pucks that he'll be in traffic much more than he has ever been in his hockey career.

I'm not entirely sure he will be ready for the NHL next season.


----------



## DDRhockey

Oh boy more negativity just after he eclipses peter forsberg


----------



## Blade Paradigm

DDRhockey said:


> Oh boy more negativity just after he eclipses peter forsberg



I've been discussing this issue on various platforms before he was even drafted, so this has nothing to do with milestones.

I also support the Vancouver Canucks, but I have always been honest with my assessment of players.


----------



## The Iron Goalie

@Blade Paradigm I disagree with your assessment of Petterssons skating. He's not elite, but above average for sure. I all the game I've watched this season, never have I come away thinking "man his skating is meh".


----------



## EK47

Blade Paradigm said:


> The Sedins have always have excellent strength on their skates, making them a hassle to play against along the boards. Their power game has always been massively underrated.
> 
> Nicklas Backstrom weighs 210 lbs. He is heavy enough on his skates to push through traffic.
> 
> One can't rule out an eventual increase to a sufficient level of strength in the NHL for Pettersson. Kyle Turris and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins both took several years to mature into 190-lb players with sufficient balance on their skates not to be impeded as easily by the opposition.
> 
> Pettersson either needs to become quicker or much stronger, though, than he currently is. He struggles in traffic, and one off-season might not be enough for him to completely overcome this issue. The NHL opposition closes in so quickly on the puck carrier and on loose pucks that he'll be in traffic much more than he has ever been in his hockey career.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure he will be ready for the NHL next season.



He needs to add lowerbody strenght for sure that is very obvious.


----------



## GTA

DDRhockey said:


> Oh boy more negativity just after he eclipses peter forsberg




Wow this guy writes incredibly well thought post and this is all that you reply with?


----------



## Elias Pettersson

OEL for Norris said:


> @Blade Paradigm I disagree with your assessment of Petterssons skating. He's not elite, but above average for sure. I all the game I've watched this season, never have I come away thinking "man his skating is meh".



Well hes definitely a better skater than boeser


----------



## DDRhockey

thomashefe said:


> Wow this guy writes incredibly well thought post and this is all that you reply with?



it's the same posts we have been hearing before. It is not well thought at all.

btw, pettersson is going to be better than nylander, suck it.


----------



## Breakers

Pretty crazy to see his scoring totals.

Considering the expectations from Canuck fans were for him to put 0.60-0.70 PPG.

he still has some major question marks, but it is a good start.


----------



## Szechwan

DDRhockey said:


> it's the same posts we have been hearing before. It is not well thought at all.
> 
> btw, pettersson is going to be better than nylander, suck it.



Speaking of not well thought out....

I disagree. As a Canuck fan I think you're being a bit of wiener here.

He isn't speaking out of line, it's a pretty articulate assessment of the state of EP's game and the difficulties he might face moving forward. So agree with it or not, thank you @Blade Paradigm for putting in the effort.


----------



## DDRhockey

Szechwan said:


> Speaking of not well thought out....
> 
> I disagree. As a Canuck fan I think you're being a bit of wiener here.
> 
> He isn't speaking out of line, it's a pretty articulate assessment of the state of EP's game and the difficulties he might face moving forward. So agree with it or not, thank you @Blade Paradigm for putting in the effort.



with all his flaws and difficulties, he had no problem scoring over 40 points playing with men the last two years.


----------



## Szechwan

DDRhockey said:


> with all his flaws and difficulties, he had no problem scoring over 40 points playing with men the last two years.



Like talking to a brick wall.


----------



## JumpierPegasus

DDRhockey said:


> with all his flaws and difficulties, he had no problem scoring over 40 points playing with men the last two years.



Bigger ice definitely favours his style of game. He plays a game that requires space, he utilizes very long cross ice passes to his advantage, and enters the zone with some room which allows him more time

Though with his IQ I believe he can think in tight quarters and very quickly make moves and passes. I don't have any doubt his game will translate, since he plays a game based on skill, finesse, and vision. It's just a matter of how much it translates and how long it takes


----------



## DDRhockey

Szechwan said:


> Like talking to a brick wall.



great argument. Atleast I come up with facts, and you are just being a troll.


----------



## Breakers

JumpierPegasus said:


> Bigger ice definitely favours his style of game. He plays a game that *requires space*, he utilizes very long cross ice passes to his advantage, and enters the zone with some room which allows him more time
> 
> Though with his IQ I believe he can think in tight quarters and very quickly make moves and passes. I don't have any doubt his game will translate, since he plays a game based on skill, finesse, and vision. It's just a matter of how much it translates and how long it takes




Yeah, right now he has forever to get his shot off because of the space.

He wont have that long on the small ice.


----------



## 42

Breakers said:


> Yeah, right now he has forever to get his shot off because of the space.
> 
> He wont have that long on the small ice.



Forever? So no one defends in the SHL?


----------



## DDRhockey

Breakers said:


> Yeah, right now he has forever to get his shot off because of the space.
> 
> He wont have that long on the small ice.



All players from Europe starts out on big ice. However it seems the best European players adjust to NHL just fine.

all players on this list had great nhl careers. They all started on big ice.


----------



## vcanuck

E L I T E Petershown


----------



## Breakers

DDRhockey said:


> All players from Europe starts out on big ice. However it seems the best European players adjust to NHL just fine.




Newsflash
Most people are just ignoring your commentary


----------



## DDRhockey

Breakers said:


> Newsflash
> Most people are just ignoring your commentary



because you have been owned with facts time after time.


----------



## TeddyBare

Szechwan said:


> Like talking to a brick wall.




Pretty much


----------



## DDRhockey

TeddyBare said:


> Pretty much


----------



## Breakers

DDRhockey said:


> because you have been owned with facts time after time.




When did I say he wasnt going to adjust to small ice.
I said it something he'll have to work on

again, your reading comprehension is embarrassing.


----------



## DDRhockey

Breakers said:


> When did I say he wasnt going to adjust to small ice.
> I said it something he'll have to work on
> 
> again, your reading comprehension is embarrassing.



How about you totally ignoring my post about elias scoring at a higher ppg than forsberg while being younger.


----------



## Breakers

DDRhockey said:


> How about you totally ignoring my post about elias scoring at a higher ppg than forsberg while being younger.




LOL
You're comparing his scoring to hypothetical situation.
All things being EQUAL they tied.


----------



## DDRhockey

Breakers said:


> LOL
> You're comparing his scoring to hypothetical situation.
> All things being EQUAL they tied.



They tied and now pettersson is in the lead. How hard can it be?

Thats like saying mcdavid did not win the scoring over crosby last season because crosby played fewer games than him.


----------



## JumpierPegasus

DDRhockey said:


> How about you totally ignoring my post about elias scoring at a higher ppg than forsberg while being younger.



He's probably going to be great, but it's fair to say that there will be a learning curve based on how he plays the game

I think Pettersson is going to be amazing too, but people are talking in absolutes


----------



## Breakers

DDRhockey said:


> They tied and now pettersson is in the lead. How hard can it be?
> 
> Thats like saying mcdavid did not win the scoring over crosby last season because he played fewer games than him.




All you have done is prove my point.

Congrats


----------



## DDRhockey

Breakers said:


> All you have done is prove my point.
> 
> Congrats



Not at all. You are just trying to be a smartass.


----------



## Grub

Seems like his floor now is best SHL player at just 19 years old. Not bad at all.


----------



## CanuckCity

@DDRhockey good grief buddy making us all look bad. please leave this thread and celebrate on your own


----------



## Index

Icebreakers said:


> He started out slow too. I think he only had 9 points in his first 11 or so games. with 1 goal.



That's not slow production at all in the SHL, especially as a D+1


----------



## LemonSauceD

Pettersson only needs 4 points in his next 4 games to tie Nilsson's record. 5 to break it.

He's also 1 point behind SHL current scoring leader Ryan Lasch who has 1 more point albeit in 7 more games.

What an absolute gem from where we took him.


----------



## Grub

CanuckCity said:


> @DDRhockey good grief buddy making us all look bad. please leave this thread and celebrate on your own



Yep, that was some embarassing stuff.


----------



## Siludin

I am starting to get the feeling... that Pettersson is good at hockey


----------



## Index

I hope they play him in the American league as a center, before coming into the NHL full time.


----------



## The Iron Goalie

Index said:


> That's not slow production at all in the SHL, especially as a D+1




Yup. The slow start was 0G 3A 3Pts in 7Gp --> 20G 27A 47Pts in 33Gp. Impressive.

I do think he may need a month or so in the AHL to start, and get used to playing NA pro hockey. Then who knows, skys the limit!


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Siludin said:


> I am starting to get the feeling... that Pettersson is good at hockey



Ok but how much does he weigh?


----------



## Peeps

I think it's now obvious that next year he will either be playing NHL or AHL. Nothing left to do in SHL after the post-season.

And remember for all of you that are talking about the transition from bigger rink to NHL rinks.. he is the top prospect not playing in NHL, he will find a way as all very talented hockey player does. If the coach tells him to only worry about his offense, he will deliver. Also if he's playing with the Twins it could be a very important year in his dev.

Even if he comes in at 170 lbs. If he can play a style like Backstrom/Crosby/Datsyuk where they bend themself along the boards to protect the puck, he will be just fine protecting the puck. Even if Backstrom is 210, Crosby is 200 and Datysuk was 195, EP is still taller at 6'2''.

And not without saying that he's not oblige to play the same style as the players that I used for exemple above. I personally think he will be in the same mould as Barzal and Keller. As of, he will be a dynamic forward with a lot of tool in his offensive game. Even if his sakting is not elite as many of you are saying.


----------



## BlueGreen

Index said:


> I hope they play him in the American league as a center, before coming into the NHL full time.



I agree. Even half a year in the AHL playing with Dahlen, and Lind would be a great way for him to develop his ability to play on a smaller ice surface at a high level with men. He can also work on his strength and build some more muscle. No need to rush him.


----------



## clay

Don't really agree with grooming him in the AHL first. The kid is putting up unprecedented numbers in Sweden for his age. He is too good to play in the AHL, despite his weight.


----------



## wonton15

clay said:


> Don't really agree with grooming him in the AHL first. The kid is putting up unprecedented numbers in Sweden for his age. He is too good to play in the AHL, despite his weight.




Agreed. We'll see in training camp that he's ready to play in the NHL


----------



## Index

clay said:


> Don't really agree with grooming him in the AHL first. The kid is putting up unprecedented numbers in Sweden for his age. He is too good to play in the AHL, despite his weight.



If they want him as a winger, then yeah he can be in the lineup next year; however, if they want him to be a center then AHL is the best route.

I don't see him playing center at 165 right away. I guess it all depends on how strong he shows up at camp.


----------



## DDRhockey

Grub said:


> Yep, that was some embarassing stuff.



embarrersing stuff when I provide stats and facts? It's the other guys who are jealous of petterssons success. please


----------



## Jayan

How is EP not already in the NHL? Kid has mad skills


----------



## Grub

Jayan said:


> How is EP not already in the NHL? Kid has mad skills




Better to start fresh next year then enter the Canuck 2017/2018 circus.


----------



## Jayan

Grub said:


> Better to start fresh next year then enter the Canuck 2017/2018 circus.




Looking forward to seeing him play in the NHL.

Canucks need to make some moves at the draft and get some more young players on the roster.


----------



## Grub

Jayan said:


> Looking forward to seeing him play in the NHL.
> 
> Canucks need to make some moves at the draft and get some more young players on the roster.




In terms of young players.

Boeser, Horvat, Petterson, Juolevi, Demko (goalie), top 5 pick 2018, Jonathan Dahlen, Kole Lind and Gaudette. We have a lot of them that will be coming in next year... I think a lot of us are more concerned about the defense. Absolutely atrocious. If for some luck the stars align and we get Dahlin, I think we will be in good shape for the next few years. Being bottom 5 the past 4 years is just demoralizing, and I think we have lost more than half of our members in these boards. I can't even imagine how Oiler fans feel.


----------



## Jayan

Grub said:


> In terms of young players.
> 
> Boeser, Horvat, Petterson, Juolevi, Demko (goalie), top 5 pick 2018, Jonathan Dahlen, Kole Lind and Gaudette. We have a lot of them that will be coming in next year... I think a lot of us are more concerned about the defense. Absolutely atrocious. If for some luck the stars align and we get Dahlin, I think we will be in good shape for the next few years. Being bottom 5 the past 4 years is just demoralizing, and I think we have lost more than half of our members in these boards. I can't even imagine how Oiler fans feel.




Haha well as a Ranger, we just allowed 55 SOG against you guys. So if you wanna talk about atrocious defense, i hear ya. I would frankly almost say that.. Whats defense? Do we need one to play? 

Poor hank.


----------



## bobbyb2009

Blade Paradigm said:


> The Sedins have always have excellent strength on their skates, making them a hassle to play against along the boards. Their power game has always been massively underrated.
> 
> Nicklas Backstrom weighs 210 lbs. He is heavy enough on his skates to push through traffic.
> 
> One can't rule out an eventual increase to a sufficient level of strength in the NHL for Pettersson. Kyle Turris and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins both took several years to mature into 190-lb players with sufficient balance on their skates not to be impeded as easily by the opposition.
> 
> Pettersson either needs to become quicker or much stronger, though, than he currently is. He struggles in traffic, and one off-season might not be enough for him to completely overcome this issue. The NHL opposition closes in so quickly on the puck carrier and on loose pucks that he'll be in traffic much more than he has ever been in his hockey career.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure he will be ready for the NHL next season.




I love this prospect! But I am certain you are correct about your central idea here. Except, I think he has the tools and can move well... (minus the lower body strength). Instead of skating at the speed he is capable of skating, I think he is actually choosing to slow down and use all the space around him to pass into, shoot, or play in. He will not have the same space small ice in either the AHL or NHL.

A poster indirectly mocked assessments like these that were being made while EP was at the WJC's; but he needs to move/explode, drive even, to create angles and attack space differently, rather than passively standing, looking, and finding space to pass into. He will need to learn to create the choices/angles to play from because they will not be there for him over here. And sometimes, that means fighting through people and winning control of space physically. He does not have the strength NOR the mentality just yet. But he has the decision making skills and the technique to impose himself once he changes the mentality.

It will take time for his body to mature, but I am convinced he can use his skills and smarts to develop the new strategies once his body developed the required strength and balance. 

I just believe he is going to have to do it in the AHL for at least part of the season next year (or any year he finally chooses to come over- as he might instinctively know this and choose to stay in Sweden for another year). 

When he was drafted, so many people commenting on him suggested he was really talented, but that he would need even more time than usual to make the jump. After watching him so many times now, I think it is clear where these comments were coming from.

I guess, who knows what one off season can do, but I take it slightly further than you "Blade Paradigm" and think it would be best for him to spend a year (or most of one) in the AHL figuring this out and continuing to get stronger while changing his attacking mentality.


----------



## Grub

Jayan said:


> Haha well as a Ranger, we just allowed 55 SOG against you guys. So if you wanna talk about atrocious defense, i hear ya. I would frankly almost say that.. Whats defense? Do we need one to play?
> 
> Poor hank.




Since you're a Ranger fan, I feel bad that you folks still have Alain Vigneault. Looking at your fan base posts, it's like De Ja Vu for me on what the Canuck fan base was saying half a decade ago. Did you guys enjoy his love affair for Tanner Glass and fourth line scrubs? If you go by our timeline AV should be gone real soon.

It's really funny, you guys have the exact same timeline as us. Have Alain Vigneault coach your team while having a franchise goalie (Luongo for us Lunqvist for you). Win some playoff rounds and go to the epitome of greatness in the Stanley Cup Finals.....only to crash and burn like there's no tomorrow.


----------



## JAS 39 Gripen

Nice to see others coming around regarding EP's flaws as well. I'm psyked to see a swedish forward finally making some noise at that young age, but of course he's got some flaws - he's just 19 years old. Hopefully he realizes this and works out like hell this summer while not forgetting his other attributes.


----------



## Jayan

Grub said:


> Since you're a Ranger fan, I feel bad that you folks still have Alain Vigneault. Looking at your fan base posts, it's like De Ja Vu for me on what the Canuck fan base was saying half a decade ago. Did you guys enjoy his love affair for Tanner Glass and fourth line scrubs? If you go by our timeline AV should be gone real soon.
> 
> It's really funny, you guys have the exact same timeline as us. Have Alain Vigneault coach your team while having a franchise goalie (Luongo for us Lunqvist for you). Win some playoff rounds and go to the epitome of greatness in the Stanley Cup Finals.....only to crash and burn like there's no tomorrow.




If AV is still the ranger coach the next season something is really really wrong in our organisation. The NYR fans have wanted him gone for a looooooooooong time and i think #fireAV is the most trending reply on the rangers Twitter posts.


----------



## Healthy DiPietro

Having watched him for his last 10 or so games, I really don't think Pettersson needs AHL time at this point, even as a center. He's so good already that he could easily play on the third line right now. You shouldn't rush some players, but there's also a risk of over cooking.


----------



## DDRhockey

Pekkafromswe said:


> Having watched him for his last 10 or so games, I really don't think Pettersson needs AHL time at this point, even as a center. He's so good already that he could easily play on the third line right now. You shouldn't rush some players, but there's also a risk of over cooking.



Sedims, naslund, backstrom forsberg never playee in ahl.


----------



## Tomas W

SHL 2nd place (and best Swede) in points with some missed games. Yet not good enough for the Olympics....?


----------



## lakers11

He's not going to play as center. If you force him then he needs to start training faceoffs because right now, he's horrible.

Also, Utica might scare him away. Not a great way to introduce a young player to NA. Im not american and even I know that place is a xxxxhole


----------



## Index

lakers11 said:


> He's not going to play as center. If you force him then he needs to start training faceoffs because right now, he's horrible.
> 
> Also, Utica might scare him away. Not a great way to introduce a young player to NA. Im not american and even I know that place is a xxxxhole



I’m assuming his faceoffs will get better as he gets stronger.
Anyways, If they don’t see him as a center I sure hope the Canucks go for Tkachuk or Wahlstrom if they don’t win the top 3. 
Regardless I think they should go for either, but If they don’t see Pettersson as a center, the choice should be obvious.


----------



## Grub

Index said:


> I’m assuming his faceoffs will get better as he gets stronger.
> Anyways, If they don’t see him as a center I sure hope the Canucks go for Tkachuk or Wahlstrom if they don’t win the top 3.
> Regardless I think they should go for either, but If they don’t see Pettersson as a center, the choice should be obvious.



I think the Canucks will still go for a defensemen if we don't get a top 3 pick.


----------



## Skinnyjimmy08

man hes a GREAT prospect wow... I am actually quite excited for Nucks and their fans having a top Euro prospect(Pettersson) crushing it and hopefully coming next year, THE top NCAA prospect(Gaudette) tearing up his league, and one of the better guys in the WHL(Lind) dominating juniors.... Great to see and Nucks are going to be a real fun team to watch soon


----------



## clay

Index said:


> If they want him as a winger, then yeah he can be in the lineup next year; however, if they want him to be a center then AHL is the best route.
> 
> I don't see him playing center at 165 right away. I guess it all depends on how strong he shows up at camp.




Plenty of rookie centres start their careers on the wing in the NHL before moving back to centre when they adjust to the league/get stronger. I fully expect that to be the plan with Pettersson, as Gaudette should be on the team and is more physically ready to be centre at this point.


----------



## rune74

Tomas W said:


> SHL 2nd place (and best Swede) in points with some missed games. Yet not good enough for the Olympics....?




We saw how that worked for them


----------



## ulvvf

Tomas W said:


> SHL 2nd place (and best Swede) in points with some missed games. Yet not good enough for the Olympics....?





It is a shame, if for no other reason that it is not exactly common that a player in that age is the best player in SHL.


----------



## DDRhockey

Some more crazy Elias Pettersson stats:

Has scored 50p while only averaging 16min a game
Has only been on ice for 12 goals against all season
Is only 1 point behind shl leader despite lagging 7 games behind
Has 11 more points than nearest teammate
Has already scored over 100 points in mens leagues despite being a teenageer
Second in +/- in shl
Only second junior in history to reach 50p in shl


----------



## Legend Leinonen

DDRhockey said:


> Some more crazy Elias Pettersson stats:
> 
> Has scored 50p while only averaging 16min a game
> Has only been on ice for 12 goals against all season
> Is only 1 point behind shl leader despite lagging 7 games behind
> Has 11 more points than nearest teammate
> Has already scored over 100 points in mens leagues despite being a teenageer
> Second in +/- in shl
> Only second junior in history to reach 50p in shl




Wow. He's gonna be a good one for sure.


----------



## DDRhockey

Legend Leinonen said:


> Wow. He's gonna be a good one for sure.



Only 16 min a game, borderline 3rd liner material. Give him 20 min in vancouver, booom


----------



## Index

DDRhockey said:


> Only 16 min a game, borderline 3rd liner material. Give him 20 min in vancouver, booom



20 minutes? Lol Boeser doesn’t even average 20.


----------



## lawrence

Pekkafromswe said:


> Having watched him for his last 10 or so games, I really don't think Pettersson needs AHL time at this point, even as a center. He's so good already that he could easily play on the third line right now. You shouldn't rush some players, but there's also a risk of over cooking.




The gm of vaxjo also went on air saying he’s ready for the nhl.

He does need to add more weight if he is still 167.


----------



## Tomas W

rune74 said:


> We saw how that worked for them




Yeah, Sweden tried to play safe and defense first with not giving Dahlin any playing time and not giving E.Pettersson a chance at all. Turned out as a turd of a tournament for Sweden. A good day for hockey though, shows that talent beats mediocrity any day.


----------



## rickardr

Scored his 21st goal today with an absolute bullet


----------



## BlueGreen

Skinnyjimmy08 said:


> man hes a GREAT prospect wow... I am actually quite excited for Nucks and their fans having a top Euro prospect(Pettersson) crushing it and hopefully coming next year, THE top NCAA prospect(Gaudette) tearing up his league, and one of the better guys in the WHL(Lind) dominating juniors.... Great to see and Nucks are going to be a real fun team to watch soon



VANs defence Corp is a big issue though. If only they could draft Dahlin. Then they’d be set. I’m loving what Elite Pete is doing though. So glad he’s ours.


----------



## Skinnyjimmy08

BlueGreen said:


> VANs defence Corp is a big issue though. If only they could draft Dahlin. Then they’d be set. I’m loving what Elite Pete is doing though. So glad he’s ours.




Ya agreed.. Seems like alot of teams though over the years that have a deadly forward crop lack in the defense area. If you guys can win Dahlin and if Juolevi turns out unreal then you will be laughing!!


----------



## DDRhockey

Pettersson now leads SHL despite missing 8 games from wjc.


----------



## IComeInPeace

If you account for the games missed, EP would be 20 points ahead of the 2nd leading scorer on his own team.


----------



## IComeInPeace

BlueGreen said:


> VANs defence Corp is a big issue though. If only they could draft Dahlin. Then they’d be set. I’m loving what Elite Pete is doing though. So glad he’s ours.



You’re correct our ‘d’ situation is far behind our forwards...
We have a couple of significant ‘ifs’ that could change that: Tryamkin coming back and OJ.
We should get a stud from the draft...but he’s probably a minimum of 2-3 years away from making an impact.

I’m also interested to see how Rathbone progresses over the next 2 seasons.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

You know your prospect is doing well when you're disappointed he only got 1 goal/point as a 19 year old in the SHL


----------



## Elias Pettersson

I did not expect him to have such a great shot. It was not in the scouting package at the time of the draft. Brock Boeser-esque. They both like using traditional wrist shots instead of the hybrid or full snap shot that most players in the NHL use these days. It's quite unique now.


----------



## The Iron Goalie

@Elias Pettersson I've mentioned this before, but Pettersson in an interview early in the season said he was to reliant on passing, and had a weaker shot. Elias correctly assessed his game, and the need for a great shot to open up passing lanes and become a multi-dimensional offensive threat at the SHL level. He spent all summer working on developing it into a weapon, and it's really paid dividends. Impressive self awarenss, and commitment to improving his game.


----------



## Lampedampe

Elias Pettersson said:


> I did not expect him to have such a great shot. It was not in the scouting package at the time of the draft. Brock Boeser-esque. They both like using traditional wrist shots instead of the hybrid or full snap shot that most players in the NHL use these days. It's quite unique now.





Don't wan't to take anything away from Elias but man that's some horrible defense on that goal.


----------



## WHISTLERNATE

Lampedampe said:


> Don't wan't to take anything away from Elias but man that's some horrible defense on that goal.




I didnt watch the game, but i'm guessing this was scored right after a 5on3 PP turned into a 5on4? Otherwise no way he gets that type of space in the NHL.

I think the most impressive thing I have read about Pettersson is that he has only been on the ice for 12 goals against in 41 games. That is crazy.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

WHISTLERNATE said:


> I didnt watch the game, but i'm guessing this was scored right after a 5on3 PP turned into a 5on4? Otherwise no way he gets that type of space in the NHL.
> 
> I think the most impressive thing I have read about Pettersson is that he has only been on the ice for 12 goals against in 41 games. That is crazy.



He's now #1 in +/- in the SHL. Although not a PKer or a shutdown guy, he's pretty darn good defensively


----------



## Orca Smash

Lampedampe said:


> Don't wan't to take anything away from Elias but man that's some horrible defense on that goal.





I see these type of comments thrown out here among many prospects over the years almost to point out that the only reason the player scored was because of terrible defense in a lower level league. There is terrible teams and terrible plays in the nhl every week that are just dreadful. Last night sam gagner let a predator walk around him in OT with the softest defensive play and stick check I have seen on the game winning goal. If a prospect did that people would point out that soft d play would never happen in the nhl. The nhl also has some terrible defense.


----------



## NoRaise4Brackett

Make defenses look stupid... that's just what EP does.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

A very underrated part of what Pettersson will bring to the Canucks is his pure skill and threat to score will generate so much more room for Boeser to play with. Boeser is a dangerous sniper but not the greatest at carrying the puck and making space, so opponents just collapse on him in the offensive zone. Pettersson will make it so that people will have to choose to either cover Boeser or Pettersson.


----------



## EK47

Elias Pettersson said:


> He's now #1 in +/- in the SHL. Although not a PKer or a shutdown guy, he's pretty darn good defensively



Last game I watched live he actually blocked 4 shots two of which he had to make a hell of an effort to be able to reach.


----------



## Grub

Well I guess being the best player in the SHL is the bottom for him... excited on how much higher he'll go.


----------



## Buresflyingelbow

As a Canuck fan I can’t wait to watch the next core led by EP and co. I think his Hockey IQ is his biggest strength and as far as filling out his IQ is the one saving grace in order to play in the NHL next year.


----------



## besser

Grub said:


> Well I guess being the best player in the SHL is the bottom for him... excited on how much higher he'll go.




Not much apparently because his competition isn't as good as it was when Forsberg or Backstrom was playing plus Tolvenan is killing the KHL with his 0.72 ppg, the same league Nigel Dawes and Linden Vey are among the top scorers.


----------



## Lampedampe

Orca Smash said:


> I see these type of comments thrown out here among many prospects over the years almost to point out that the only reason the player scored was because of terrible defense in a lower level league. There is terrible teams and terrible plays in the nhl every week that are just dreadful. Last night sam gagner let a predator walk around him in OT with the softest defensive play and stick check I have seen on the game winning goal. If a prospect did that people would point out that soft d play would never happen in the nhl. The nhl also has some terrible defense.




Literally said I don't want to take anything away from Elias and thus I was only pointing out the bad defense on the particular play. But great write up...

I'm from Sweden and I watch quite abit of SHL, it's quite a structured league but on that goal I have no idea what the defense was thinking. Again, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not taking anything away from your guy here.


----------



## thelittlecoon

Lampedampe said:


> Literally said I don't want to take anything away from Elias and thus I was only pointing out the bad defense on the particular play. But great write up...
> 
> I'm from Sweden and I watch quite abit of SHL, it's quite a structured league but on that goal I have no idea what the defense was thinking. Again, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not taking anything away from your guy here.



It was a broken play so their defense were out of position, they had been defending his side quite well up until that point.


----------



## dellzor

:O

McDavid was a 92, Eichel was an 86


----------



## VictoriaJetsFan

Petterson gets way too much negativity here. I don't even like the Canucks but they have a helluva prospect in this guy.


----------



## M2Beezy

VictoriaJetsFan said:


> Petterson gets way too much negativity here. I don't even like the Canucks but they have a helluva prospect in this guy.



Agreed. Its kinda nonsense. I think if he adds 20 lbs by the preseason he will be just fine adapting to the NHL physicalness


----------



## Elias Pettersson

VictoriaJetsFan said:


> Petterson gets way too much negativity here. I don't even like the Canucks but they have a helluva prospect in this guy.



I don't think there's too much negativity. Just a few people who say the same thing across different threads. Overall, I think hf is adequately assessing him


----------



## 42

dellzor said:


> :O
> 
> McDavid was a 92, Eichel was an 86




Nice. Hiponiemi at 2 is interesting. I know he's tearing the WHL but is he really better than Tolvanen and Haiskanen?


----------



## Josepho

42 said:


> Nice. Hiponiemi at 2 is interesting. I know he's tearing the WHL but is he really better than Tolvanen and Haiskanen?




It's weird.

Statistically it's an exceedingly impressive season but a lot of guys on that team are doing well in that department.

We saw Sam Steel put up 2 P/G alongside Brooks last year but now he's dropped off quite a bit.

Heponiemi is still a good prospect but I expect something similar to happen to him when Steenbergen leaves and I sure as hell don't value him over Tolvanen or Heiskanen.


----------



## kanuck87

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> Agreed. Its kinda nonsense. I think if he adds 20 lbs by the preseason he will be just fine adapting to the NHL physicalness




He's not going to add 20 pounds of muscle in one off-season. Around 5 would be more realistic.


----------



## Dump Itch

kanuck87 said:


> He's not going to add 20 pounds of muscle in one off-season. Around 5 would be more realistic.




Why not? 20 lbs is like nothing.


----------



## kanuck87

Dump Itch said:


> Why not? 20 lbs is like nothing.




There is a difference between adding fat and adding muscle. You want to be adding muscle, and that takes time. 20 pounds of muscle isn't something anyone can add in one off-season.


----------



## Grub

In old HFboard Terms I bet Elias is a 8.5B or 9.0 C


----------



## coastal_nuck

Dump Itch said:


> Why not? 20 lbs is like nothing.




... Really? 20lbs of fat maybe. Any player adding that much weight in an off season in hockey is a huge red flag.


----------



## Tripod

coastal_nuck said:


> ... Really? 20lbs of fat maybe. Any player adding that much weight in an off season in hockey is a huge red flag.



Like Kyle Wellwood?


----------



## Siludin

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> Agreed. Its kinda nonsense. I think if he adds 20 lbs by the preseason he will be just fine adapting to the NHL physicalness



I don't think that's necessary. The league isn't that physical anymore. If Gaudreau can play at his current size, so can Pettersson.


----------



## rune74

You can add 15 pounds or so if you work out and change your diet. Now, that isn't always what you want to do as it will effect how you move etc....


----------



## M2Beezy

coastal_nuck said:


> ... Really? 20lbs of fat maybe. Any player adding that much weight in an off season in hockey is a huge red flag.



No i mean add muscle not fat


----------



## Castle8130

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> No i mean add muscle not fat



just going to slow him down, he's good at where he's at, at most 10 lbs in the future is what he should gain.


----------



## TeddyBare

If Pettersson puts on 20ibs of muscle this off-season I'd bet he gets suspended for PED's.


----------



## Index

Siludin said:


> I don't think that's necessary. The league isn't that physical anymore. If Gaudreau can play at his current size, so can Pettersson.



Except Gaudreau is a elite skater, and Pettersson is not.


----------



## Index

20lbs if muscle, not happening
20lbs of fat, oh god no.

There must be something else he can add 20lbs of, right??


----------



## IComeInPeace

A kid that still has not finished growing can add more weight than the average adult who has finished growing.

It would not be unheard of for a male his age to still have growth plates / end plates that are still open...in which case he could still put in weight from added bone as well muscle, fat, soft tissue.

At his age, all the gains aren’t as simple as fat vs muscle.


----------



## Phil McKraken

If a scrawny little hobbit like Jesper Bratt can go from mediocre Allsvenskan player to looking like a seasoned top 6 NHL vet in one season, why are there any doubts about Pettersson next season, who is both much bigger and currently dominates the SHL?

I get that a center generally needs to be bigger than a winger, but Pettersson would probably start as a winger anyway.


----------



## Siludin

Index said:


> Except Gaudreau is a elite skater, and Pettersson is not.



I don't think skating or speed is a weakness of Pettersson. From the video I have seen, he usually looks like the quickest guy out there and scores a ton of his goals on the rush.


----------



## Index

Siludin said:


> I don't think skating or speed is a weakness of Pettersson. From the video I have seen, he usually looks like the quickest guy out there and scores a ton of his goals on the rush.



Certainly not a weakness for Elias, I was just saying Johnnys got exceptional skating that’s why he can play with that frame in the NHL level, and still produce. Ofcourse he’s got much more than just skating, but so does Elias.


----------



## Zombotron

Index said:


> 20lbs if muscle, not happening
> 20lbs of fat, oh god no.
> 
> There must be something else he can add 20lbs of, right??



Hair. Axel Jonsson-Fjällby style.


----------



## Index

Zombotron said:


> Hair. Axel Jonsson-Fjällby style.



Comparing Petterssons hair to one of the most elite flows in the game is just setting yourself up for disappointment.


----------



## 42

Pettersson has a brother who goes by the name Emil and we know that no one in the history of NHL has translated well from SHL to NHL having a brother who goes by the name of Emil.


----------



## M2Beezy

42 said:


> Pettersson has a brother who goes by the name Emil and we know that no one in the history of NHL has translated well from SHL to NHL having a brother who goes by the name of Emil.



What the hell did i just read. Even if your been sarcastic just


----------



## Siludin

42 said:


> Pettersson has a brother who goes by the name Emil and we know that no one in the history of NHL has translated well from SHL to NHL having a brother who goes by the name of Emil.



I tried to fact-check this but I had a hard time


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

Speaking of Emil.....The AHL website has him up to 185lbs. I believe he was drafted at 158lbs. Using my elite maff skills that means he's put on 28lbs since draft.

Elias was I believe 165lbs. If he puts on what his brother put on he'll get up to 193lbs. That plenty big for an NHL player.


----------



## Smeagoal

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> Speaking of Emil.....The AHL website has him up to 185lbs. I believe he was drafted at 158lbs. Using my elite maff skills that means he's put on 28lbs since draft.
> 
> *Elias was I believe 165lbs. If he puts on what his brother put on he'll get up to 193lbs. That plenty big for an NHL player.*




Maybe a little too big...?

Cue the meltdown of having another porker come to camp ala. Virtanen.


----------



## Ainec

Index said:


> 20lbs if muscle, not happening
> 20lbs of fat, oh god no.




15% concentrated power of will


----------



## 42

Where would Pettersson go in the 2018 draft, given his up-to-date production history? I think 2nd behind Dahlin.


----------



## Iceman

42 said:


> Where would Pettersson go in the 2018 draft, given his up-to-date production history? I think 2nd behind Dahlin.




Well, he was probably the most offensively gifted in his draft but now you are comparing him as a draft+1 against 17-18 year olds.

He produced in the tier 2 league in Sweden prior to his draft but he was still considered a reach at 5 by a lot of people so I don't know where he would go this year.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Iceman said:


> Well, he was probably the most offensively gifted in his draft but now you are comparing him as a draft+1 against 17-18 year olds.
> 
> He produced in the tier 2 league in Sweden prior to his draft but he was still considered a reach at 5 by a lot of people so I don't know where he would go this year.



Behind Svechnikov and Zadina


----------



## elitepete

Iceman said:


> Well, he was probably the most offensively gifted in his draft but now you are comparing him as a draft+1 against 17-18 year olds.
> 
> He produced in the tier 2 league in Sweden prior to his draft but he was still considered a reach at 5 by a lot of people so I don't know where he would go this year.



He said “up to date production and history”

He would go 2nd


----------



## The Iron Goalie

2 more pts needed to equal Kenta Nilsson, 3 too pass.


----------



## Grub

OEL for Norris said:


> 2 more pts needed to equal Kenta Nilsson, 3 too pass.




Kid is definately NHL ready. He'll adjust to the NHL game just like he adjusted going to the SHL (top scorer)


----------



## Vujtek

OEL for Norris said:


> 2 more pts needed to equal Kenta Nilsson, 3 too pass.




Just 1 more point to equal Kent Nilsson, 2 to pass him. That is by going with the official SHL stats instead of those provided by eliteprospects.

SHL.se

Edit. In fact eliteprospects have updated their stats as well so they too are showing 53 points for Nilsson now.


----------



## Grub

Another point. He has tied the record

53 points in 43 games, leads the SHL in scoring, you can't really ask for a better D+1 in terms of development.


----------



## GetFocht

HISTORIC SEASON! Pettersson ties a 42 year old record


----------



## felixpettersson

And now he's broken it


----------



## kcunac

I don’t understand. How can they just now change a 42 year old stat? With EP chasing they decided to go back and look at the points again? Seems a little weird no? (Not that I am not happy).


----------



## Grub

And scores another assist to break the record for highest scoring u-20 player in the history of the SHL. 54 in 43 games. Not bad at all.


----------



## Brock Boeser Laser Show

1 more assist away from 22 Goals and 33 assists.


----------



## GetFocht

He just broke a 42 year old record


Eliteprospects.com - All-Time Stats and Leaders from SHL


----------



## krutovsdonut

kcunac said:


> I don’t understand. How can they just now change a 42 year old stat? With EP chasing they decided to go back and look at the points again? Seems a little weird no? (Not that I am not happy).




presumably somebody made an error transcribing that stat along the way and the mistake got caught when people checked into it as ep got close.


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Scored again.


----------



## Peeps

This is unreal. It's amazing to be a part of it as hockey fans.


----------



## Hischier and Hughes

Great for him - hope he ends up panning out for Vancouver

I see him as a solid 60-70 point guy


----------



## krutovsdonut

23 goals 32 assists now.

4 point game, 3 point period. just wow.


----------



## Grub

Brock Boeser Laser Show said:


> 1 more assist away from 22 Goals and 33 assists.



Sorry to crush your dream bub. He scored again.


----------



## M2Beezy

O baby baby!!! What a season

Man I love this prospect


----------



## Aqualung

Vujtek said:


> Just 1 more point to equal Kent Nilsson, 2 to pass him. That is by going with the official SHL stats instead of those provided by eliteprospects.
> 
> SHL.se
> 
> Edit. In fact eliteprospects have updated their stats as well so they too are showing 53 points for Nilsson now.



My question is why was it changed now? They took an assist away. Other resources are still showing 54 points for Nilsson. EDIT: Unless SHL always had it at 53 and all other resources had it wrong. Which makes it more curious


----------



## Slap

He is pretty good at ice hockey imo.


----------



## Kaako Kappo

It'll be interesting to see what he can do in the NHL.

I feel like people are low-balling him a bit.


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Those numbers are astounding. Way beyond my expectations for him this season, and I was pretty optimistic.


----------



## Eat Bread

I think he'll be a solid player in the NHL, great pickup by Vancouver.


----------



## Smeagoal

Anyone want to post a screenshot of Elias at the top of SHL scoring with the rest of the players on that list?

To be honest I didn't think he'd break the record, typical Canuck style he'd be just short..


----------



## ulvvf

Renberg can have Lias Andersson (which he think is a better player right now), Sellgren and even Steen and other fairly medicore players which he is a big fan of, and I take Pettersson and Dahlin.


----------



## kes17

Aqualung said:


> My question is why was it changed now? They took an assist away. Other resources are still showing 54 points for Nilsson. EDIT: Unless SHL always had it at 53 and all other resources had it wrong. Which makes it more curious




It would make for a great story I’m sure and probably draw more media attention, I’m not sure that they would have done it any other year .not that it matters, EP has 55 now which is the record regardless if they changed it or not, and he has another game even if he didn’t go off today


----------



## The Iron Goalie

What. A. Player.


----------



## Grub

Time to head for the NHL.


----------



## dellzor

Shut Up Flanders said:


> Anyone want to post a screenshot of Elias at the top of SHL scoring with the rest of the players on that list?
> 
> To be honest I didn't think he'd break the record, typical Canuck style he'd be just short..



Game isn't done so not yet


----------



## Kcb12345

Really curious to see how he will perform in the NHL. I'd assume he is a couple of years away still


----------



## GetFocht

Generational season for Pettersson.


----------



## Kaako Kappo

Kcb12345 said:


> Really curious to see how he will perform in the NHL. *I'd assume he is a couple of years away still*



How come? And don't say "size".

He's in the same company with Swedish all-time greats in SHL scoring. He could be something very special.


----------



## Nick1219

Kcb12345 said:


> Really curious to see how he will perform in the NHL. I'd assume he is a couple of years away still




Oh god no... he'll be given every chance to play in the NHL next year. He's leading the SHL in scoring... nothing more to prove over there.


----------



## DDRhockey

Pettersson is just unreal


----------



## Eat Bread

Is he playing center in the SHL, and if he is do you think he'll play center for the Canucks? Or will he play as a LW? A Pettersson - Horvat - Boeser line would be sick


----------



## IComeInPeace

Going into this season, if he had scored half this many points, most of us would have considered that a very successful first season.

This is crazy.

He’s a great playmaker, with a great shot...paired with Boeser on the PP, that could be a really dynamic duo...you can only cheat on one guy to take his shot away. He should really help free up some ice for Boeser.


----------



## DatSnipeMatthews

Paul Maurice said:


> How come? And don't say "size".
> 
> He's in the same company with Swedish all-time greats in SHL scoring. He could be something very special.




I wouldn't expect too much substance. It's the same poster who argued that Seguin is a better goal scorer than other similar high-end goal scorers because he doesn't score near the front of the net.


----------



## Szechwan

Las Llamas said:


> Is he playing center in the SHL, and if he is do you think he'll play center for the Canucks? Or will he play as a LW? A Pettersson - Horvat - Boeser line would be sick



He played W in the first half, but has been at C since returning from the WJC.

He'll get sheltered in Vancouver next year, I'd expect him to play the wing for a little bit.

edited: played both wings early on


----------



## SB84

He'll be overmatched next year in the NHL. Put him in the AHL and only promote him to the big club if he's 1+ppg. No need to put him in that tire fire Van's going to have next year.


----------



## Grub

OEL for Norris said:


> Cheers, Elias!


----------



## Peeps




----------



## Prntscrn

Paul Maurice said:


> How come? And don't say "size".
> 
> He's in the same company with Swedish all-time greats in SHL scoring. He could be something very special.




My view of Elias is that he is to smart to fail even if he doesn't gain much weight. With IQ and hands like that he will find a way to succeed no matter what. Sure might take him a little time to figure out how to play the game over there, but it will happen


----------



## Reasoned Opinion

Quite possibly the most offensively talented prospect not in the NHL. Kid could be the next thing.


----------



## Aqualung

Apparently Pettersson got emotional on the bench after scoring his 4th point and the crowd gave him a standing ovation. He gave an interview during the 2nd intermission just now about being emotional and working hard to get to where he is now.


----------



## canuckslover10

I think weight is exaggerated claim for EP the new nhl takes skill over size


----------



## The Iron Goalie

Pettersson played mostly RW to start the season, then had a strech of ~8 games at LW before the WJC. For about 8 games after the WJC he played C, and is now back on the RW. Imo he's a much more effective RWer/C vs LWer.


----------



## Blue and Green

This size and weight stuff is getting way too much play, especially in today's NHL which is nowhere near as rough as in bygone decades. If Pettersson starts in the NHL next season he will be 14 months older than Wayne Gretzky was when he started. First-year Gretzky was quite possibly the skinniest, physically weakest NHL player I've ever seen and he tied for the scoring title that season. Why shouldn't Pettersson with an extra year of maturity be able to take a regular shift in the NHL, given that he is arguably the best forward in the SHL this season? His skill level will determine his future. Lack of size is more of an issue for defencemen and goalies, not nearly so much for forwards.


----------



## StrictlyCommercial

SB84 said:


> He'll be overmatched next year in the NHL. Put him in the AHL and only promote him to the big club if he's 1+ppg. No need to put him in that tire fire Van's going to have next year.




He is in the company of Nilsson and Forsberg and you want him in the AHL?

Ridiculous.


----------



## Kcb12345

Paul Maurice said:


> How come? And don't say "size".
> 
> He's in the same company with Swedish all-time greats in SHL scoring. He could be something very special.






Nick1219 said:


> Oh god no... he'll be given every chance to play in the NHL next year. He's leading the SHL in scoring... nothing more to prove over there.




I figured he'd be given a chance in the AHL first to adjust. But, you are probably right. Canucks probably should go ahead and give him a shot to make the NHL team. How is his 2-way game? I thought I heard that he is not good defensively at all


----------



## Reasoned Opinion

Kcb12345 said:


> Really curious to see how he will perform in the NHL. I'd assume he is a couple of years away still




He is probably ready now. He has been playing against men the past two years and doing just fine. He has dominated this year. He is elusive (hard to hit) and doesn't seem to mind dirty areas. Ironically, he is about same weight a skinny kid named Forsberg was at same age and things seemed to work out for that kid coming to North America (in a much "heavier" time in the game too). Pettersson is probably ready now. An extremely exciting player.


----------



## Kaako Kappo

Who is he playing with in SHL?


----------



## WHISTLERNATE

Kcb12345 said:


> I figured he'd be given a chance in the AHL first to adjust. But, you are probably right. Canucks probably should go ahead and give him a shot to make the NHL team. How is his 2-way game? I thought I heard that he is not good defensively at all




His 2 way game is pretty solid. He was on the ice for 12 goals against all season and leads the league in +/-.


----------



## Aqualung

Kcb12345 said:


> I figured he'd be given a chance in the AHL first to adjust. But, you are probably right. Canucks probably should go ahead and give him a shot to make the NHL team. How is his 2-way game? I thought I heard that he is not good defensively at all



He has the intelligence to be adequate defensively (good length and positioning) but his strength holds him back, and will be amplified in the NHL. My guess is the Canucks will keep his even strength minutes low and sheltered (playing with defensively responsible players) so that he can slowly begin to grasp the speed and physicality of the game with lots of powerplay time to give him confidence in offense.


----------



## Gaunce4gm

Why the hell would he go to the AHL?? 

*Elias Pettersson has just shattered Wayne Gretzky's rookie season record*

"I think he should go to the AHL next year to gain weight and learn the small rink"


----------



## M2Beezy

Slap said:


> He is pretty good at ice hockey imo.



Thats what i was thinking too


----------



## GetFocht




----------



## Vujtek

Aqualung said:


> My question is why was it changed now? They took an assist away. Other resources are still showing 54 points for Nilsson. EDIT: Unless SHL always had it at 53 and all other resources had it wrong. Which makes it more curious




SHL had it at 53 a month ago, when Pettersson was truly starting to chase it. That's when I first checked it. So SHL hasn't made any last minute change to the stat.

There's still a difference in Peter Forsberg's stats between SHL and Eliteprospects. Eliteprospects in showing 48 points when SHL has all along been showing 47 points. So Pettersson also passed Forsberg one point sooner than was thought here a while ago.


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

PorscheDesign said:


>




Probably the highest praise a player cab received from his head coach


----------



## The Iron Goalie

Paul Maurice said:


> Who is he playing with in SHL?




Team - Vaxjo Lakers
Linemates - Has had many, but is currently playing with Dennis Rasmussen, and Brendan Shinnimin


----------



## Shareefruck

Blue and Green said:


> This size and weight stuff is getting way too much play, especially in today's NHL which is nowhere near as rough as in bygone decades. If Pettersson starts in the NHL next season he will be 14 months older than Wayne Gretzky was when he started. First-year Gretzky was quite possibly the skinniest, physically weakest NHL player I've ever seen and he tied for the scoring title that season. Why shouldn't Pettersson with an extra year of maturity be able to take a regular shift in the NHL, given that he is arguably the best forward in the SHL this season? His skill level will determine his future. Lack of size is more of an issue for defencemen and goalies, not nearly so much for forwards.



I think he'll be fine in the NHL, but "Gretzky did it under tougher conditions, why couldn't Petterson?" isn't very good reasoning, IMO.


----------



## BWJM

I'm glad people are starting to realize that skill & speed > size in todays NHL.

Pettersson will make some of you look like fools. Kid has heart.


----------



## Aqualung




----------



## LemonSauceD

ulvvf said:


> Kenta still have better PPG



Ok but Kent had 54 points playing in a much weaker/offensive SHL. Teams were scoring 5-8 goals a game 40 years ago.

Pettersson is doing it with an overall better quality league.

If Pettersson can add about 10 more pounds and play at 180lbs, no way he DOESN'T make the NHL. He definitely has the height, just needs to max out. I can see him starting off as a winger alongside Horvat and Boeser.


----------



## Aqualung




----------



## EK47

The best junior season I've ever had the privilege to watch.


----------



## Blue and Green

Shareefruck said:


> I think he'll be fine in the NHL, but "Gretzky did it under tougher conditions, why couldn't Petterson?" isn't a very good argument, IMO.




I think it's an entirely reasonable argument. Obviously Gretzky was a different calibre of player but there are a lot of similarities in their style of play and their physical build. When Gretzky was about to join the NHL at age 18 there were plenty of people who said that he would have trouble because he was supposedly too small and weak.


----------



## StatisticsAddict99

Hope Vancouver can get Dahlin or Svechnikov so they can get a future big 3 like Winnipeg(Laine, Ehlers, Scheifele), Toronto(Matthews, Marner, Nylander) and Edmonton(Draistaitl, Puljujarvi[even though he’s not quite there yet], McDavid).

Pettersson, Boeser + a Dahlin/Svechnikov would be really nice to see in Vancouver as Pettersson has proved he’s the best Prospect in the world right now...


----------



## firstemperor

Crazy how much he has blown up. Thought incredibly high of him at draft time but his trajectory has been historic. Intrigued what he can do on the smaller ice, I don't think the adjustment period is all that bad for forwards coming over (vs defenders).

If Vancouver get one of the big 3, or ideally big 2, this draft....watch out


----------



## Healthy DiPietro

Now all that's left is to grow a cool Kent Nilsson moustache and he's ready to take the NHL by storm.


----------



## The Crypto Guy

I don't see him being elite, but he should be a consistent 70 point scorer the NHL. Good 1st liner.


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

Las Llamas said:


> Is he playing center in the SHL, and if he is do you think he'll play center for the Canucks? Or will he play as a LW? A Pettersson - Horvat - Boeser line would be sick



He plays mostly on RW, played C for a stretch, back RW after a new acquisition by the team


----------



## M2Beezy

Gaunce4gm said:


> Why the hell would he go to the AHL??
> 
> *Elias Pettersson has just shattered Wayne Gretzky's rookie season record*
> 
> "I think he should go to the AHL next year to gain weight and learn the small rink"



*Kent Nelson


----------



## ulvvf

Peeps said:


>





Kenta still have better PPG


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Some mod tried to merge the 2 threads and made a gigantic mess of it.


----------



## Shareefruck

Blue and Green said:


> I think it's an entirely reasonable argument. Obviously Gretzky was a different calibre of player but there are a lot of similarities in their style of play and their physical build. When Gretzky was about to join the NHL at age 18 there were plenty of people who said that he would have trouble because he was supposedly too small and weak.



Yes, but Gretzky is also able to do things leaps and bounds beyond any other player in history can even dream of. It isn't reasonable to assume or suggest that other players (even fantastically promising ones) will be able to make similar adjustments to what he can, even if you scale it down a accordingly.

The validity of that kind of argument basically hinges on Petterson having scaled down but still Gretzky-like IQ. It's just a bad example.

Gretzky is an example of why it's technically possible, but it's not an example of why it's realistically within reach for Pettersson (and for the record, I think it is within reach). Gaudreau probably would be.


----------



## Addison Rae

People who think this player shouldn’t be in the NHL next year are insane he just had one of the best draft + 1 seasons in Europe in the last 20 years. 

This guy can step into a NHL teams top 6 right now and be effective.


----------



## Peeps

WPG99 said:


> Hope Vancouver can get Dahlin or Svechnikov so they can get a future big 3 like Winnipeg(Laine, Ehlers, Scheifele), Toronto(Matthews, Marner, Nylander) and Edmonton(Draistaitl, Puljujarvi[even though he’s not quite there yet], McDavid).
> 
> Pettersson, Boeser + a Dahlin/Svechnikov would be really nice to see in Vancouver as Pettersson has proved he’s the best Prospect in the world right now...




how about Wahlstrom? I think that would be a better trio with Wahlstrom.


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

The Crypto Guy said:


> I don't see him being elite, but he should be a consistent 70 point scorer the NHL. Good 1st liner.



If 70s point isn’t elite, that tells you how much the NHL is lacking talents now


----------



## lawrence

love the saltiness from some hating fans btw. love the support too from other fans.


----------



## Szechwan

ulvvf said:


> Kenta still have better PPG



Remarkable insight


----------



## Healthy DiPietro

#7 Markus Näslund - Lindsay Award
#5 D. Sedin - Art Ross
#4 H. Sedin - Art Ross
#3 Peter Forsberg - Art Ross
#2 Kent Nilsson - Would have Art Ross if not for one Wayne Gretzky and one Marcel Dionne
#1 Elias Pettersson - "Not elite. 70 point player"


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

Kcb12345 said:


> I figured he'd be given a chance in the AHL first to adjust. But, you are probably right. Canucks probably should go ahead and give him a shot to make the NHL team. How is his 2-way game? I thought I heard that he is not good defensively at all




Pettersson is actually arguably elite defensively. Last I heard he's been on the ice for 12 goals against all season. He's incredibly adept at reading the play and causing turnovers in the offensive zone and through the neutral zone and you'll continually see him block shots and making the right play in the defensive zone, he has the smarts and the work ethic to be an elite defensive forward to go along with his offensive capabilities.




Paul Maurice said:


> How come? And don't say "size".
> 
> He's in the same company with Swedish all-time greats in SHL scoring. He could be something very special.




Why not say size? If Pettersson comes into camp next year and say only put on 5 pounds over the summer. Would it be in the Canucks best interest to risk injury to Pettersson while he obviously still has a lot of filling out to do? We're not talking about a Gaudreau or Kane who are short and are absolutely elite with their elusiveness and edgework or an Ehlers who is an absolutely incredible skater. Pettersson doesn't have the same skating abilities as the other small players in the league so he's not comparable. There is a major potential for him to get injured if he isn't strong enough yet and the Canucks aren't in any hurry to get him into the lineup to be competing for the playoffs.


----------



## vcanuck

firstemperor said:


> Crazy how much he has blown up. Thought incredibly high of him at draft time but his trajectory has been historic. Intrigued what he can do on the smaller ice, I don't think the adjustment period is all that bad for forwards coming over (vs defenders).
> 
> If Vancouver get one of the big 3, or ideally big 2, this draft....watch out




Even without the lottery pick, the Canucks have an already impressive core of players to build on (Horvat/Petersson/Gaudette/Lind/Horvat/Demko/Joulevi)

but you're right, adding Razmoos Dahlin or Zadina would just fantastic! Easily more firepower than the 2011 team.

and i really like the supporting cast of Virtanen, Liepsic, Beartschi, Granlund and Goldobin


----------



## ThirdManIn

Gaunce4gm said:


> Why the hell would he go to the AHL??
> 
> *Elias Pettersson has just shattered Wayne Gretzky's rookie season record*
> 
> "I think he should go to the AHL next year to gain weight and learn the small rink"




As long as you're not being unrealistic or anything...


----------



## Blue and Green

Shareefruck said:


> Yes, but Gretzky is also able to do things leaps and bounds beyond any other player in history. It isn't reasonable to assume or suggest that other players (even fantastically promising ones) will be able to make similar adjustments to what he can, even if you scale it down a accordingly.
> 
> The validity of that kind of argument basically hinges on Petterson having scaled down but still Gretzky-like IQ. It's just a bad example.




No, it would only be a bad example by expecting him to produce at Gretzky levels. Which nobody expects because he has never been nearly as dominant at any stage as Gretzky. 

The comment was related to size and strength limitations-- which didn't stop Gretzky from being utterly historic in the NHL just as he was utterly historic at every previous level, and won't stop Pettersson from being a very good player in the NHL.


----------



## lakers11

Yea, Elias is pretty bad defensively. He's only leading the league in +-

He's at +26, second best fw in the league is at +17


----------



## Elias Pettersson

WPG99 said:


> Hope Vancouver can get Dahlin or Svechnikov so they can get a future big 3 like Winnipeg(Laine, Ehlers, Scheifele), Toronto(Matthews, Marner, Nylander) and Edmonton(Draistaitl, Puljujarvi[even though he’s not quite there yet], McDavid).
> 
> Pettersson, Boeser + a Dahlin/Svechnikov would be really nice to see in Vancouver as Pettersson has proved he’s the best Prospect in the world right now...



Dahlin is still best prospect in the world


----------



## lawrence

rune74 said:


> You didn't. You wanted glass.






Pekkafromswe said:


> #7 Markus Näslund - Lindsay Award
> #5 D. Sedin - Art Ross
> #4 H. Sedin - Art Ross
> #3 Peter Forsberg - Art Ross
> #2 Kent Nilsson - Would have Art Ross if not for one Wayne Gretzky and one Marcel Dionne
> #1 Elias Pettersson - "Not elite. 70 point player"




2002-03 NHL Leaders | Hockey-Reference.com

Naslund finshed 2nd in goals and points in 2003. losing out to 2 Avalanche players in both categories apparently on the last game of the season. 

If he played with an average 1st line player instead of Brenden Morrison he would have easily won both trophies in that year.


----------



## member 105785

Surprised this wasn't a main board thread too tbh


----------



## Hokinaittii

Very exciting player to watch. I can't wait to see him pulling these moves in NHL.


----------



## IComeInPeace

Paul Maurice said:


> Who is he playing with in SHL?



If you account for the games he’s missed, he’d be on pace to finish 25 points ahead of the 2nd leading scorer on his team.

The season he’s had is rare at any level. It’s hard to explain. Normally, you’d look at linemates carrying him or something like that...but there’s nothing like that. 

He had a great season in SWE-1 last year as a rookie, with 41points...he will probably end up surpassing that, jumping up a league, by 20 points. No one saw that coming.


----------



## Love

Really excited. Can’t wait for next season. Especially since Boeser is done. Can’t wait for this season to be over.


----------



## lawrence

BonAppleTea said:


> Seeing someone you have met once in a while since he was a kid go out there and break records is kind of crazy.
> Imagine if Vancouver gets lucky and drafts Dahlin as well... scary good young group of players




even if we add Zadikhov , or any of the players ranked in the top 10 they will be a scary team due to Benning stock piling the teams prospects pool with this later picks, like Lockwood, Gaudette, Lind, Gajovich, the list goes on, wow are the Canucks ever stacked in prospects pool anyone want to create a poll on this? i truly think we have the best prospects in the NHL.


----------



## lawrence

CanuckGame39 said:


> LOL the comments in this thread are pathetic. Pure jelousy.
> 
> beats a 40+ year old record and dominates a pro league as a rookie teenager, and people can' give the kid props.




first it was, "he's playing in a leauge that was not as good as it was 10 years ago so easier to get points"

false : scoring is down means harder to get points

then it's

"his team has crazy corsi" (not sure wtf this means, he has 15 more points then the next player on his team while playing 8 less games)
false seems like this hater meant to say he's being carried by his team, sure as hell don't look like it.
tells his team to hold hold his beer while he competes for a gold medal at the wjc, misses 7 games sets a record, lol.



MichaelFarrell said:


> Do people really doubt he'll play in the NHL next year? It really seeems like he should be the Calder favorite right now next year. Putting up .5 ppg as a 19 year in t




Vaxjo GM believes he's NHL ready.


----------



## lawrence

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> He didn't even made it to the olympic roster where there were no NHLers. I am not arguing he shouldn't be there, but it would seem odd that they pick him this time around with higher competition for the spots.




called it the 1st time, when he was left off Swedens Roster I knew Sweden was not going to win any medals.

if they make the same mistake again I'm gonna laugh at em and they will probably not win anything again.


----------



## BonAppleTea

Seeing someone you have met once in a while since he was a kid go out there and break records is kind of crazy. 
Imagine if Vancouver gets lucky and drafts Dahlin as well... scary good young group of players


----------



## Siludin

IComeInPeace said:


> If you account for the games he’s missed, he’d be on pace to finish 25 points ahead of the 2nd leading scorer on his team.
> 
> The season he’s had is rare at any level. It’s hard to explain. Normally, you’d look at linemates carrying him or something like that...but there’s nothing like that.
> 
> He had a great season in SWE-1 last year as a rookie, with 41points...he will probably end up surpassing that, jumping up a league, by 20 points. No one saw that coming.



Except Jim "The Lazy Eagle Eye" Benning!


----------



## Shareefruck

Blue and Green said:


> No, it would only be a bad example by expecting him to produce at Gretzky levels. Which nobody expects because he has never been nearly as dominant at any stage as Gretzky.
> The comment was related to size and strength limitations-- which didn't stop Gretzky from being utterly historic in the NHL just as he was utterly historic at every previous level, and won't stop Pettersson from being a very good player in the NHL.



I think that it would be a bad example with regards to either expectation.

It would only make sense to frame an argument this way if you were saying that size and strength has no bearing on the ability of a player to be effective at the NHL level. We know that this isn't the case. The degree that players are able to produce at lower levels is not proportional to their ability to produce at higher levels. It gets exponentially (not linearly) tougher the less IQ you have to make up for it. You can't really accurately scale Gretzky's ability to do it with Pettersson's expected ability to do it, simply on the basis that the reason it might be an obstacle is similar.

A lack of size and strength is a huge mountain to climb and can turn gifted hockey players into useless ones at the NHL level. The outrageous tools and extreme caliber of skill/IQ that Gretzky has is a huge part of what allows him to be completely unaffected by that obstacle, so unless Pettersson has tools of the same caliber, the fact that Gretzky can do it easily is kind of an irrelevant point to bring up (other than as evidence that it's technically possible). Especially when there are players with comparable body types AND skill level to Pettersson that were able to overcome a lack of size/strength, who would be significantly more meaningful indicators of what is realistic for him to do.

Again, I agree with the conclusion, I just think the reasoning is bad.


----------



## Sergei Shirokov

His skating looked pretty darn good in that breakaway goal clip.

I was of the mind that we shouldn't be expecting him to come in and automatically be a good top 6 guy next year but at this point its hard to imagine him not contributing in the NHL next year.

I'm excited! bring on the draft lottery so our #5 pick can be confirmed, then we can move on to the draft & next season!


----------



## Love

BonAppleTea said:


> Seeing someone you have met once in a while since he was a kid go out there and break records is kind of crazy.
> Imagine if Vancouver gets lucky and drafts Dahlin as well... scary good young group of players




Would give us:

Rasmus Dahlin
Bo Horvat
Brock Boeser
Elias Pettersson
Olli Juolevi
Adam Gaudette
Jonathan Dahlen
Kole Lind
Thatcher Demko
Jake Virtanen

All under 23 years old. Hutton and Stecher are 24 and 23.


----------



## Slimmy

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> He didn't even made it to the olympic roster where there were no NHLers. I am not arguing he shouldn't be there, but it would seem odd that they pick him this time around with higher competition for the spots.



The national team is a lot about paying your dues and loyalty. This time around I think they are more inclined to add Pettersson to the roster since they were so heavily criticised after the Olympic failure. The main criticism was the reasoning behind Dahlins limited role which was not well received by many and I believe the brass are a bit shaken.


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## Eye of Ra

if this guy is not on the world championship i will get pissed off.


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## Billy Kvcmu

BonAppleTea said:


> Seeing someone you have met once in a while since he was a kid go out there and break records is kind of crazy.
> Imagine if Vancouver gets lucky and drafts Dahlin as well... scary good young group of players



Please don’t put Dahlin and Canucks in the same sentence 
It only makes it hurt more down the line


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## Tomas W

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> He didn't even made it to the olympic roster where there were no NHLers. I am not arguing he shouldn't be there, but it would seem odd that they pick him this time around with higher competition for the spots.




Yeah, thats the logic take on this, but we can throw logic out the window with Grönborg, so anything is possible.


----------



## Eye of Ra

GodEmperor said:


> Another hotshot Swede pretty boy breaking records in pretty boy leagues, tell me when he does it in a place where it matters.




dude, sweden have 50 great players in the nhl and all of them came from shl.


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## VictorLustig

Honestly thought he would be a 25-30 point #2-3 line winger this season. Never underestimate godly hockey IQ, it translates extremely well to any league.


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## Eye of Ra

so he has played 43 games,,,,if he played 52 games he would have even more points...


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> You still think Hischier is better than Pettersson?



Yes. Until Pettersson can prove otherwise (in the nhl) you can't argue against Nico


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## Elias Pettersson

Eye of Ra said:


> so he has played 43 games,,,,if he played 52 games he would have even more points...



That logic is next level.


----------



## MichaelFarrell

Do people really doubt he'll play in the NHL next year? It really seeems like he should be the Calder favorite right now next year. Putting up .5 ppg as a 19 year in the SHL or Liiga is an impressive feat in my opinion but this guy is leading the entire league in scoring! Looks like he could be the best forward produced by Sweden in a long time.


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## Icebreakers

ulvvf said:


> Kenta still have better PPG




I wouldn't recommend making a post that everyone already acknowledges and that it's right infront of you. People would think you're implying something.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

Eye of Ra said:


> if this guy is not on the world championship i will get pissed off.



He didn't even made it to the olympic roster where there were no NHLers. I am not arguing he shouldn't be there, but it would seem odd that they pick him this time around with higher competition for the spots.


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## Shareefruck

thelittlecoon said:


> I think it’s probably d o u c h e



Thank you!


----------



## ulvvf

PG Canuck said:


> Did your original post have a point? Unlikely.




My point was nothing, it was a joke, I thought it was pretty obvious, about he is not good enough since he is still do not have the best PPG, and for that I get issults. Unlikely? maybe ask in a polite maner if you do not understand.


----------



## ulvvf

Shareefruck said:


> He's right, his point is sound, and nothing about it comes across as taking anything too seriously.
> You're being defensive without having any reasonable point of contention here.
> 
> Edit: Btw, I'm trying to figure out which curse word has 6 letters and ends with an 'e'.




What is his point, he just made a issult towards me for no good reason.


----------



## Diamonddog01

ulvvf said:


> What is his point, he just made a issult towards me for no good reason.




Kent is that you?


----------



## g00n

continued from http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1905651


----------



## Siludin

he dope


----------



## GetFocht

90 point potential player


----------



## Elias Pettersson

i heard he can play hockey well


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## CanaFan

PorscheDesign said:


> 90 point potential player




Seems a rather random number. Why not 100 pts? Or 80 pts?
Why 90 specifically?


----------



## CanaFan

Adding to above, I don't think any players from 2017 have 90 point potential, including Pettersson, Hischier, and Patrick. 90 pts would surpass every player in the league except McDavid. No one in this draft has 90 pt potential unless they take a big (and unexpected) step forward in their D+1. 90 pt potential is the realm of guys like Matthews and maybe Draisaitl. They aren't available in every draft and odds would suggest no one in 2017 will ever hit 90 points unless league scoring levels inflate drastically in the coming years.


----------



## BROCK HUGHES

PorscheDesign said:


> 90 point potential player



If ya got the horses for him to play with,,we have a bunch of what if,s right now..he looks like a good pick otherwise.


----------



## Yultron

CanaFan said:


> Adding to above, I don't think any players from 2017 have 90 point potential, including Pettersson, Hischier, and Patrick. 90 pts would surpass every player in the league except McDavid. No one in this draft has 90 pt potential unless they take a big (and unexpected) step forward in their D+1. 90 pt potential is the realm of guys like Matthews and maybe Draisaitl. They aren't available in every draft and odds would suggest no one in 2017 will ever hit 90 points unless league scoring levels inflate drastically in the coming years.




Eichel too you can't forget him


----------



## CanaFan

Yultron said:


> Eichel too you can't forget him




Ya wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list but more to give the "quality" of player that has 90 point potential. But I agree Eichel is one of those (and they are few).


----------



## lawrence

PorscheDesign said:


> 90 point potential player




You don't have to say this 5 times. 

In order for him to even reach that once, he needs like at least a 75 point linemate and a 50 point dman that shares the ice with him on a regular basis, kinda like when the sedins had ehrhoff. Not to mention another 40 point dman, as he needs to be sharing the ice with an offensive dman that has a very very very high zone entry from defensive end to offensive end and of course high end offensice skills that help with generating actual offence for him to reach the 90 point mark. 

So,that's my 2 cent and I think those will be a requirements for him to hit 90. 

Or if we somehow added Crosby or eichel or Kane and our them on the same line.


----------



## Grantham

PorscheDesign said:


> 90 point potential player




Why do you hate Pettersson so much? Why are you trying to set him him up for failure?

And I sincerely ask this as a Canucks fan who loves him as a player.


----------



## BoDacious Horvat

Grantham said:


> Why do you hate Pettersson so much? Why are you trying to set him him up for failure?
> 
> And I sincerely ask this as a Canucks fan who loves him as a player.



It was a big discussion in the last thread that turned into the weirdest pissing match, I think he's just being funny


----------



## TheSnipeshow91

I'm not going to completely rule out Pettersson scoring close to 90 points in a season. Today's NHL is trending towards a more offensive skill and speed game. Just look at some of the younger players. You got guys like Laine, Mcdavid, Matthews, Eichel, Draisaitl Marner. There is a clear emphasis of offense as compared to defense, and we will see more and more goals scored in the NHL in the near future. I feel like we are going to have more than a few 80+ point players as soon as these younger players start taking over the league. Not to mention, if you give Pettersson some elite offensive winger *coughsvechnikovcough, he can put up some serious numbers, maybe even upwards of 80 points (50-60 assists,20-25 goals). It might be a stretch, but it isn't completely out of the question.


----------



## CanaFan

TheSnipeshow91 said:


> I'm not going to completely rule out Pettersson scoring close to 90 points in a season. Today's NHL is trending towards a more offensive skill and speed game. Just look at some of the younger players. You got guys like Laine, Mcdavid, Matthews, Eichel, Draisaitl Marner. There is a clear emphasis of offense as compared to defense, and we will see more and more goals scored in the NHL in the near future. I feel like we are going to have more than a few 80+ point players as soon as these younger players start taking over the league. Not to mention, if you give Pettersson some elite offensive winger *coughsvechnikovcough, he can put up some serious numbers, maybe even upwards of 80 points (50-60 assists,20-25 goals). It might be a stretch, but it isn't completely out of the question.




Sure but you're including at least two caveats to the projection, namely that league scoring inflates and he has an elite offensive player on his wing. Both possible but sort of unrelated to Pettersson and his own personal skill/production ceiling, no?

I think a better or at least fairer way to discuss a player's upside is to frame it in a reasonably static and neutral situation. What can a player produce in today's world and with a typical set of top linemates. Otherwise the projection becomes as much about the extraneous variables being hypothesized as the player themselves.

For my part I see Pettersson's ceiling more in the 65-75 point range based on my criteria above (current scoring rates, good but not elite linemates). That would put him on par with players like Draisaitl, Tarasenko, and Pastrnak, hardly a poor group to be lumped in with. Anything more than that seems a tad unfounded based on what Pettersson has shown to date.


----------



## EK47

I don't think playing for VÃ¤xjÃ¶ next season is the best decision, Sam Hallams track record with juniors is pretty bad at best, although they have never had a junior of this quality either.


----------



## TheSnipeshow91

CanaFan said:


> Sure but you're including at least two caveats to the projection, namely that league scoring inflates and he has an elite offensive player on his wing. Both possible but sort of unrelated to Pettersson and his own personal skill/production ceiling, no?
> 
> I think a better or at least fairer way to discuss a player's upside is to frame it in a reasonably static and neutral situation. What can a player produce in today's world and with a typical set of top linemates. Otherwise the projection becomes as much about the extraneous variables being hypothesized as the player themselves.
> 
> For my part I see Pettersson's ceiling more in the 65-75 point range based on my criteria above (current scoring rates, good but not elite linemates). That would put him on par with players like Draisaitl, Tarasenko, and Pastrnak, hardly a poor group to be lumped in with. Anything more than that seems a tad unfounded based on what Pettersson has shown to date.




My post was simply trying to justify a scenario where Pettersson would score upwards of 90 points in a season, and that it wasn't completely out of the realm of possibility. But I fully agree with you, with the current situation we are looking at for Elias (like you said, good but not elite linemates, scoring rate stays the same), he can put up 60-70 points in a season if he does pans out, and I'd be more than satisfied with that.


----------



## ulvvf

EK47 said:


> I don't think playing for VÃƒÂ¤xjÃƒÂ¶ next season is the best decision, Sam Hallams track record with juniors is pretty bad at best, although they have never had a junior of this quality either.




Like you said, Vaxjo has not really have any junior of high quality to play in shl. Who is their best junior before Pettersson? Hogberg? So when you say track record, which talent have he misuse?


----------



## Amazing Kreiderman

Never really thought Pettersson was good enough to be picked in the top-5 but I might be wrong. I just don't see him transitioning to the NHL with the same style of play and be a solid 1st liner.


----------



## VictorLustig

ulvvf said:


> Like you said, Vaxjo has not really have any junior of high quality to play in shl. Who is their best junior before Pettersson? Hogberg? So when you say track record, which talent have he misuse?




There's a very easy explanation for that. VÃƒÂ¤xjÃƒÂ¶ has been an SHL club for like 6 years. They have not been able to compete with bigger market teams for the best junior players.


----------



## ulvvf

VictorLustig said:


> There's a very easy explanation for that. VÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤xjÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶ has been an SHL club for like 6 years. They have not been able to compete with bigger market teams for the best junior players.




Yes I know.


----------



## EK47

ulvvf said:


> Like you said, Vaxjo has not really have any junior of high quality to play in shl. Who is their best junior before Pettersson? Hogberg? So when you say track record, which talent have he misuse?




VÃ¤xjÃ¶ has had numerous juniors in the big league for a short while who actually did pretty well, but as soon as they have a bad game they get scratched for 10 straight games. This was the case with HÃ¶gberg last year and YES it happened way before their injuryproblems were lessened. It's like he has no patience with young players meanwhile older players like Cory Murphy are allowed to be useless without having to fear getting scratched.


----------



## 1972

This hype is getting out of hand, he's probably a 50-60 point centre.


----------



## gretskidoo

This hype is way too much, he's probably a 30 point center.. in the ECHL.


----------



## IComeInPeace

Aside from a relatively small number of posters repeating themselves, their isn't much hype. Their is just hope.

Canuck fans are excited, but we aren't stupid. He has high end talent, but significant obstacles to overcome (size/strength issue, initial quickness, can he play in traffic, can his game translate to the North American style).


----------



## nucks88

IComeInPeace said:


> Aside from a relatively small number of posters repeating themselves, their isn't much hype. Their is just hope.
> 
> Canuck fans are excited, but we aren't stupid. He has high end talent, but significant obstacles to overcome (size/strength issue, initial quickness, can he play in traffic, can his game translate to the North American style).




Really. People should stop thinking that HF boards is real life. Most Canucks fans are optimistic but realize he has a long way to go. It is just exciting for us to have a great prospect in the chain.


----------



## g00n

continued from http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1905651


----------



## Siludin

he dope


----------



## GetFocht

90 point potential player


----------



## Elias Pettersson

i heard he can play hockey well


----------



## CanaFan

PorscheDesign said:


> 90 point potential player




Seems a rather random number. Why not 100 pts? Or 80 pts?
Why 90 specifically?


----------



## CanaFan

Adding to above, I don't think any players from 2017 have 90 point potential, including Pettersson, Hischier, and Patrick. 90 pts would surpass every player in the league except McDavid. No one in this draft has 90 pt potential unless they take a big (and unexpected) step forward in their D+1. 90 pt potential is the realm of guys like Matthews and maybe Draisaitl. They aren't available in every draft and odds would suggest no one in 2017 will ever hit 90 points unless league scoring levels inflate drastically in the coming years.


----------



## BROCK HUGHES

PorscheDesign said:


> 90 point potential player



If ya got the horses for him to play with,,we have a bunch of what if,s right now..he looks like a good pick otherwise.


----------



## Yultron

CanaFan said:


> Adding to above, I don't think any players from 2017 have 90 point potential, including Pettersson, Hischier, and Patrick. 90 pts would surpass every player in the league except McDavid. No one in this draft has 90 pt potential unless they take a big (and unexpected) step forward in their D+1. 90 pt potential is the realm of guys like Matthews and maybe Draisaitl. They aren't available in every draft and odds would suggest no one in 2017 will ever hit 90 points unless league scoring levels inflate drastically in the coming years.




Eichel too you can't forget him


----------



## CanaFan

Yultron said:


> Eichel too you can't forget him




Ya wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list but more to give the "quality" of player that has 90 point potential. But I agree Eichel is one of those (and they are few).


----------



## lawrence

PorscheDesign said:


> 90 point potential player




You don't have to say this 5 times. 

In order for him to even reach that once, he needs like at least a 75 point linemate and a 50 point dman that shares the ice with him on a regular basis, kinda like when the sedins had ehrhoff. Not to mention another 40 point dman, as he needs to be sharing the ice with an offensive dman that has a very very very high zone entry from defensive end to offensive end and of course high end offensice skills that help with generating actual offence for him to reach the 90 point mark. 

So,that's my 2 cent and I think those will be a requirements for him to hit 90. 

Or if we somehow added Crosby or eichel or Kane and our them on the same line.


----------



## Grantham

PorscheDesign said:


> 90 point potential player




Why do you hate Pettersson so much? Why are you trying to set him him up for failure?

And I sincerely ask this as a Canucks fan who loves him as a player.


----------



## BoDacious Horvat

Grantham said:


> Why do you hate Pettersson so much? Why are you trying to set him him up for failure?
> 
> And I sincerely ask this as a Canucks fan who loves him as a player.



It was a big discussion in the last thread that turned into the weirdest pissing match, I think he's just being funny


----------



## TheSnipeshow91

I'm not going to completely rule out Pettersson scoring close to 90 points in a season. Today's NHL is trending towards a more offensive skill and speed game. Just look at some of the younger players. You got guys like Laine, Mcdavid, Matthews, Eichel, Draisaitl Marner. There is a clear emphasis of offense as compared to defense, and we will see more and more goals scored in the NHL in the near future. I feel like we are going to have more than a few 80+ point players as soon as these younger players start taking over the league. Not to mention, if you give Pettersson some elite offensive winger *coughsvechnikovcough, he can put up some serious numbers, maybe even upwards of 80 points (50-60 assists,20-25 goals). It might be a stretch, but it isn't completely out of the question.


----------



## CanaFan

TheSnipeshow91 said:


> I'm not going to completely rule out Pettersson scoring close to 90 points in a season. Today's NHL is trending towards a more offensive skill and speed game. Just look at some of the younger players. You got guys like Laine, Mcdavid, Matthews, Eichel, Draisaitl Marner. There is a clear emphasis of offense as compared to defense, and we will see more and more goals scored in the NHL in the near future. I feel like we are going to have more than a few 80+ point players as soon as these younger players start taking over the league. Not to mention, if you give Pettersson some elite offensive winger *coughsvechnikovcough, he can put up some serious numbers, maybe even upwards of 80 points (50-60 assists,20-25 goals). It might be a stretch, but it isn't completely out of the question.




Sure but you're including at least two caveats to the projection, namely that league scoring inflates and he has an elite offensive player on his wing. Both possible but sort of unrelated to Pettersson and his own personal skill/production ceiling, no?

I think a better or at least fairer way to discuss a player's upside is to frame it in a reasonably static and neutral situation. What can a player produce in today's world and with a typical set of top linemates. Otherwise the projection becomes as much about the extraneous variables being hypothesized as the player themselves.

For my part I see Pettersson's ceiling more in the 65-75 point range based on my criteria above (current scoring rates, good but not elite linemates). That would put him on par with players like Draisaitl, Tarasenko, and Pastrnak, hardly a poor group to be lumped in with. Anything more than that seems a tad unfounded based on what Pettersson has shown to date.


----------



## EK47

I don't think playing for VÃ¤xjÃ¶ next season is the best decision, Sam Hallams track record with juniors is pretty bad at best, although they have never had a junior of this quality either.


----------



## TheSnipeshow91

CanaFan said:


> Sure but you're including at least two caveats to the projection, namely that league scoring inflates and he has an elite offensive player on his wing. Both possible but sort of unrelated to Pettersson and his own personal skill/production ceiling, no?
> 
> I think a better or at least fairer way to discuss a player's upside is to frame it in a reasonably static and neutral situation. What can a player produce in today's world and with a typical set of top linemates. Otherwise the projection becomes as much about the extraneous variables being hypothesized as the player themselves.
> 
> For my part I see Pettersson's ceiling more in the 65-75 point range based on my criteria above (current scoring rates, good but not elite linemates). That would put him on par with players like Draisaitl, Tarasenko, and Pastrnak, hardly a poor group to be lumped in with. Anything more than that seems a tad unfounded based on what Pettersson has shown to date.




My post was simply trying to justify a scenario where Pettersson would score upwards of 90 points in a season, and that it wasn't completely out of the realm of possibility. But I fully agree with you, with the current situation we are looking at for Elias (like you said, good but not elite linemates, scoring rate stays the same), he can put up 60-70 points in a season if he does pans out, and I'd be more than satisfied with that.


----------



## ulvvf

EK47 said:


> I don't think playing for VÃƒÂ¤xjÃƒÂ¶ next season is the best decision, Sam Hallams track record with juniors is pretty bad at best, although they have never had a junior of this quality either.




Like you said, Vaxjo has not really have any junior of high quality to play in shl. Who is their best junior before Pettersson? Hogberg? So when you say track record, which talent have he misuse?


----------



## Amazing Kreiderman

Never really thought Pettersson was good enough to be picked in the top-5 but I might be wrong. I just don't see him transitioning to the NHL with the same style of play and be a solid 1st liner.


----------



## VictorLustig

ulvvf said:


> Like you said, Vaxjo has not really have any junior of high quality to play in shl. Who is their best junior before Pettersson? Hogberg? So when you say track record, which talent have he misuse?




There's a very easy explanation for that. VÃƒÂ¤xjÃƒÂ¶ has been an SHL club for like 6 years. They have not been able to compete with bigger market teams for the best junior players.


----------



## ulvvf

VictorLustig said:


> There's a very easy explanation for that. VÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤xjÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶ has been an SHL club for like 6 years. They have not been able to compete with bigger market teams for the best junior players.




Yes I know.


----------



## EK47

ulvvf said:


> Like you said, Vaxjo has not really have any junior of high quality to play in shl. Who is their best junior before Pettersson? Hogberg? So when you say track record, which talent have he misuse?




VÃ¤xjÃ¶ has had numerous juniors in the big league for a short while who actually did pretty well, but as soon as they have a bad game they get scratched for 10 straight games. This was the case with HÃ¶gberg last year and YES it happened way before their injuryproblems were lessened. It's like he has no patience with young players meanwhile older players like Cory Murphy are allowed to be useless without having to fear getting scratched.


----------



## 1972

This hype is getting out of hand, he's probably a 50-60 point centre.


----------



## gretskidoo

This hype is way too much, he's probably a 30 point center.. in the ECHL.


----------



## IComeInPeace

Aside from a relatively small number of posters repeating themselves, their isn't much hype. Their is just hope.

Canuck fans are excited, but we aren't stupid. He has high end talent, but significant obstacles to overcome (size/strength issue, initial quickness, can he play in traffic, can his game translate to the North American style).


----------



## nucks88

IComeInPeace said:


> Aside from a relatively small number of posters repeating themselves, their isn't much hype. Their is just hope.
> 
> Canuck fans are excited, but we aren't stupid. He has high end talent, but significant obstacles to overcome (size/strength issue, initial quickness, can he play in traffic, can his game translate to the North American style).




Really. People should stop thinking that HF boards is real life. Most Canucks fans are optimistic but realize he has a long way to go. It is just exciting for us to have a great prospect in the chain.


----------

