# LD Olli Juolevi - TPS, Liiga (2016, 5th, VAN)



## FinPanda

27 games and 22 points (5+17) with Jokerit U20 team. He was named rookie of the month in the U20 league and he leads rookies in points. Ten games 1+7 this month. His biggest weakness is his defensive play. 

He is top Finnish defenseman in 2016 draft.

Anyone seen him play? Also interesting to see what he is going to do in the future. Will he stay with Jokerit or change another team to play in the FEL. We'll see.

www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=196391


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## rduck1

Dwio said:


> Will he stay with Jokerit or change another team to play in the FEL. We'll see.




Could be loaned to Mestis or maybe somewhere like Blues if Jokerit thinks they can get a KHL season out of him before he goes to North America. I know they had some loan deals with Sport this season, so there's a precedent.


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## FinPanda

0+3 today. Primary assist to overtime GWG in 5-4 win against Blues.


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## Roo Mad Bro

Really good size for a 16 year old dman and putting up a nice amount of points.

How is his skating?


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## JJTT

Roo Mad Bro said:


> Really good size for a 16 year old dman and putting up a nice amount of points.
> 
> How is his skating?




Haven't seen him a whole lot but seemed like a good skater with great puck handling ability and great passing skills. Very similar to that another Olli.


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## JJTT

Ranked 8th by ISS on their December ranking.


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## Erikfromfin

Tops the icetime in jr.a liiga averaging 28.33 minutes per game. 2nd in defensman scoring with 5+20 only behind Veeti Vainio

http://www.leijonat.fi/uutiset/tuoreimmat/item/11866-nuorten-sm-nain-tahkoaa-minuutteja-syyskauden-peliaikaykkonen.html


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## Eyelanders

Juolevi looked like the complete defenseman when I saw Jokerit playing. Great passer, calm in every situation, high-level hockey IQ and awareness in all three zones. The kid can really shoot the puck and has the size and physique to compete against much older players in the defensive zone. 1st round material in my opinion.


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## FinPanda

Now 29 points (5+24) in 40 games.


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## tze

Is Juolevi better than Vaakanainen? Are they comparable?


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## BusQuets

tze said:


> Is Juolevi better than Vaakanainen? Are they comparable?




I haven't seen either one of them play yet but Juolevi seems to be top10 draft pick on many lists i see but Vaakanainen is said to be the best defenceman prospect ever from Finland.


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## Ihmeilja

Porkkan4 said:


> 27 games and 22 points (5+17) with Jokerit U20 team. He was named rookie of the month in the U20 league and he leads rookies in points.




Why is the A-junior league always said to be U20 league, while it is actually U22 league, with a lot of 20 year old guys in the league..

I hope they loan him to some liiga club next year.


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## FinPanda

tze said:


> Is Juolevi better than Vaakanainen? Are they comparable?



I heard from some Finnish scout, that at the moment he is better than Vaakanainen. But they are both possible 1st round defensemen.

Vaakanainen is younger, so we'll see who is better. Both are excellent young defensemen.


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## Fawkes

Eyelanders said:


> Juolevi looked like the complete defenseman when I saw Jokerit playing. Great passer, calm in every situation, high-level hockey IQ and awareness in all three zones. The kid can really shoot the puck and has the size and physique to compete against much older players in the defensive zone. 1st round material in my opinion.



I agree with this. I've seen him play a couple of times "live" and watched all of the U18 games played in the Czech tournament. His skating looks effortless and he's quite good with the puck. He has more in common with Olli MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤ than just his first name, they have some similarities in their playing styles. I'm not sure how high Juolevi will be drafted, but he is 1st round material definitely. He needs to gain weight and get more physical in the defensive zone, but that is to expected since he is still very young.

It will be intresting to see where he will play next season. Jr. A isn't the right place for him anymore, but neither is KHL. He needs to go to another team next season where he can at least play some games in Liiga. HIFK or Blues are the first ones to come in mind for obvious reasons. Not sure how "team loyal" Juolevi is and would he even consider playing for HIFK, but I think TÃ¶rmÃ¤nen would be a good coach for him.


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## Finnpin

Fawkes said:


> Not sure how "team loyal" Juolevi is and would he even consider playing for HIFK, but I think TÃ¶rmÃ¤nen would be a good coach for him.



This loyalty thing is just something created by the fans. Players will pick the team that is best for their development.


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## Fawkes

Finnpin said:


> This loyalty thing is just something created by the fans. Players will pick the team that is best for their development.



This is probably true. Nowadays changing from Jokerit to HIFK and vice versa doesn't seem to be an issue for the younger players. Does anyone know what kind of contract Juolevi has with Jokerit? I would guess he only has a junior contract, meaning he can transfer to another team if he wants.


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## JJTT

I think Juolevi would already have moved to another Finnish club if that was his plan for next season. 

My guess is CHL. Worked well for MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤ and Honka too.


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## FinProspects

Juolevi, VÃ¤limÃ¤ki, Vaakanainen, Vainio, NiemelÃ¤inen.. I like what I'm seeing. 

As for Juolevi, I see him as a potential top15 pick for the 2016 draft. Pretty much in the same mold as MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤, maybe with a bit more offensive capabilities (because of the skating), but less overall play.


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## TheFinnishTrap

I haven't seen him or Vaakanainen play, so I have to ask if there's any base for LehterÃ¤'s comments about Vaakanainen being the best Finnish d-prospects ever. Vaakanainen is born literally on 1.1.1999, Juolevi is only half a year older. Juolevi has 20 points in A-SM liiga, while Vaakanainen has 12 (about the same amount of games played). Juolevi is also 4 cm taller. Is Juolevi the leading defender for his team, while Vaakanainen is slotted behind older players? I know Blues has strong junior teams, don't know about Jokerit's depth though. Is it realistic to say either one of them is one of the best Finnish defensive prospects ever?


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## agent082

Don't think either beats Berg as the best Finnish defensive prospect ever.


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## thomast

He was rewarded with best defenseman and rookie trophy in finnish U20 league. Being 16 year old that is pretty impressive. I have watched him all year and i think that he is very high end prospect. Has all the tools to be really really good player. I like him more than Ristolainen for example. One prospect to watch for 2016 draft for sure.


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## Fawkes

Juolevi did not play in Jokerit A Jrs. playoff game against Blues on Sunday. It was reported he has a lower-body injury. Does anybody have any info about the injury? Hopefully he will be able to play in the U18 WJC in April. If the injury is not serious, Juolevi can continue his season with Jokerit B Jrs. as Jokerit A lost in the playoffs to Blues. Jokerit B faces JYP in the playoffs, and lead 2-1 after three games.


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## JJTT

Signed KHL contract with Jokerit.


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## SoupyFIN

JJTT said:


> Signed KHL contract with Jokerit.



Is he expected to make the team, or was this just done so that they can recall him in case there's some injuries?


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## JJTT

SoupyFIN said:


> Is he expected to make the team, or was this just done so that they can recall him in case there's some injuries?




No idea. Could be that he will play in OHL/WHL/Liiga/Mestis next year and Jokerit just holds his KHL rights this way.

I don't see why he would stay in A-Juniors.


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## wings5

JJTT said:


> Signed KHL contract with Jokerit.




Did they draft him in the KHL draft?


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## ChicagoBullsFan

wings5 said:


> Did they draft him in the KHL draft?




No Juolevi is undrafted in KHL.
Jokerit signed him a junior contract into their KHL roster.

Juolevi is Jokerit's own prospect and he's represented Jokerit all the time in his career. 
Jokerit's KHL roster is very stacked so probably Juolevi plays next season in Finnish Elite League or CHL


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## Kshahdoo

Well, Tarasenko played in the KHL as 16 year old, why this kid can't?


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## ChicagoBullsFan

Kshahdoo said:


> Well, Tarasenko played in the KHL as 16 year old, why this kid can't?




Jokerit's KHL roster is very stacked.
If Juolevi cares his development and wants to be TOP15 pick next years draft.

It'll be better for him go to play some Finnish Elite League team example IFK Helsinki or Espoo Blues.
Or Canadian junior league example WHL / OHL.

Idon't know exactly what's the Jokerit's plan for Olli Juolevi's development.
But i think playing to KHL isn't option.


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## Matt93

He was just drafted by the London Knights of the OHL in the CHL Import Draft. The same team that Maatta played for


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## FinPanda

I could see him coming to NA. But we'll see.


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## thomast

I could see him going to CHL too.


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## Jussi

Porkkan4 said:


> I could see him coming to NA. But we'll see.




Unless they find him a team in Finland, I could see him going too. That would mean Jokerit would lose out on any transfer money though (should he continue straight to NHL from CHL).


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## TheFinnishTrap

Wouldn't be a bad idea at all. London would be a great team for him.


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## JJTT

Jussi said:


> Unless they find him a team in Finland, I could see him going too. That would mean Jokerit would lose out on any transfer money though (should he continue straight to NHL from CHL).




I think it was reported earlier that NHL teams don't have to pay Jokerit any transfer money anymore since they are now considered KHL club(not part of IIHF agreement), not Finnish club. 

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/jaakiekko/art-1288669790528.html


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## Fawkes

Juolevi might already had some preliminary talks with London prior to the Import Draft. Many "lesser" Finnish prospects were selected before Juolevi, which was surprising, but might be explained with Juolevi's agent telling other teams he already had an agreement with London. It would not prevent other CHL teams from drafting Juolevi, but would make it less tempting. I'm just speculating here, but I've actually been expecting that Juolevi will go the CHL route since he hasn't signed a pro contract in Finland. Usually prospects of his caliber have pro contracts with Liiga teams at this point of their careers. For example Markus NiemelÃ¤inen and Juuso VÃ¤limÃ¤ki (both picked in the Import Draft) have Liiga contracts, and Juolevi is a superior prospect compared to those two. If Juolevi is to report to London, the comparisons with MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤ will be inevitable. MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤ is better defensively but Juolevi has shown more offensive upside than MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤ had at same age.


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## Jussi

JJTT said:


> I think it was reported earlier that NHL teams don't have to pay Jokerit any transfer money anymore since they are now considered KHL club(not part of IIHF agreement), not Finnish club.
> 
> http://www.iltasanomat.fi/jaakiekko/art-1288669790528.html




Hmm, I was under the impression that they were still under the Finnish hockey federation and thus eligible for transfers.


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## JJTT

http://www.londonknights.com/article/juolevi-and-mattinen-commit-to-knights
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/jaakiekko/art-1437105283608.html

Reporting to the Knights.


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## wej20

London has an excellent reputation plus had Maatta recently so it makes a ton of sense.


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## FinPanda

Excellent decision.


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## waitin425

Where does this kid project in the NHL draft?

God if he is a first round projection, the Knights are gonna be awesome next year....

Marner
Jones
Tkachuk
Mete
Olli

a 4th overall and 4 projected first rounders?


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## hoyster

waitin425 said:


> Where does this kid project in the NHL draft?
> 
> God if he is a first round projection, the Knights are gonna be awesome next year....
> 
> Marner
> Jones
> Tkachuk
> Mete
> Olli
> 
> a 4th overall and 4 projected first rounders?




Definitely has a 1st round potential. I've seen lists with him in top 15.

Will be a good draft for London Knights and Finland too.


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## JJTT

waitin425 said:


> Where does this kid project in the NHL draft?
> 
> God if he is a first round projection, the Knights are gonna be awesome next year....
> 
> Marner
> Jones
> Tkachuk
> Mete
> Olli
> 
> a 4th overall and 4 projected first rounders?




He has been ranked between 8-14 in the early listings.


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## Finnpin

Porkkan4 said:


> Excellent decision.



I agree, no room in Jokerit KHL squad and no need to play Mestis.


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## BusQuets

waitin425 said:


> Where does this kid project in the NHL draft?
> 
> God if he is a first round projection, the Knights are gonna be awesome next year....
> 
> Marner
> Jones
> Tkachuk
> Mete
> Olli
> 
> a 4th overall and 4 projected first rounders?




Better at his age than Ristolainen(8th), Honka(12th), Maatta(22nd) for example. So he should be pretty high if he continues to improve.


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## thomast

He is most talented finnish D in long time IMO. Was best defenseman and had most icetime for a player in U20 ASM being just 16 year old. It's always differend to make transition to other country and small rink. If he manages to do it well we could see him cracking into top 10 maybe even 2nd highest D drafted after Chychrun. Exciting to see another finnish player to go excellent program in London.


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## waitin425

thanks for the responses! London will be stacked! Cant wait to watch that team next year and perhaps 2016/17


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## DonskoiDonscored

London is going to be stacked. Now we just wait to hear if Werenski will make the jump.


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## ChicagoBullsFan

Good choice for Olli.
Is London Knights GM Basil McRae a former NHL player.?

I remembering seen him visiting role in Mighty Ducks1 hockey movie in 90's.
Or do i remembering wrong?


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## agent082

Might be 5th best D prospect from Finland ever (behind Ruotsalainen, Jutila, Berg and Pitkanen)


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## UsernameWasTaken

FinnHockeyFan said:


> Good choice for Olli.
> *Is London Knights GM Basil McRae a former NHL player.?*
> 
> I remembering seen him visiting role in Mighty Ducks1 hockey movie in 90's.
> Or do i remembering wrong?




Yeah, he played in the NHL for about 15 years. He also appeared in Mighty Ducks.


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## Finnpin

FinnHockeyFan said:


> Is London Knights GM Basil McRae a former NHL player.?



Now and then some comments show how old farts or young some of us are.

Basil McRae. One of the coolest hockey names for me, like ever.


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## bob27

agent082 said:


> Might be 5th best D prospect from Finland ever (behind Ruotsalainen, Jutila, Berg and Pitkanen)




Aside from RR, that's quite a frightening company to be in .


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## ChadS

UsernameWasTaken said:


> Yeah, he played in the NHL for about 15 years. He also appeared in Mighty Ducks.



He was also Jokerit's assistant coach for part of the 2010-2011 season. Doubt that has anything to do with this move because there's a different management in place, but interesting nevertheless.


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## Esko6

Juolevi is very much like MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤: same style, size, first name and now the same team too.


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## Jussi

ChadS said:


> *He was also Jokerit's assistant coach for part of the 2010-2011 season.* Doubt that has anything to do with this move because there's a different management in place, but interesting nevertheless.




A very short part. Didn't last even a month.


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## McGlassbangers

Esko6 said:


> Juolevi is very much like MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤: same style, size, first name and now the same team too.




Hopefully Juolevi doesn't fall to Pittsburgh's lap.


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## NHL Dude 120

McGlassbangers said:


> Hopefully Juolevi doesn't fall to Pittsburgh's lap.




Unless he's projected to be a 2nd rounder no worry except if you hate the leafs.


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## Zaddy

Watched Juolevi for the first time in a pre-season game against the Erie Otters last night. It was really easy to see what the hype is about with this young man. He's one of the most poised young d-men I've seen. I only watched two periods but he was easily the best player on the ice. Outstanding skating ability, good transition-game, great passer. So much to like about this kid. Finished the game with a nice goal, an assist and a +3 rating in a 3-1 game. It's real early but he looks like a top10 talent to me and the best d-man in the draft behind Chychrun.


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## teravaineSAROS

Zaddy Zads said:


> Watched Juolevi for the first time in a pre-season game against the Erie Otters last night. It was really easy to see what the hype is about with this young man. He's one of the most poised young d-men I've seen. I only watched two periods but he was easily the best player on the ice. Outstanding skating ability, good transition-game, great passer. So much to like about this kid. Finished the game with a nice goal, an assist and a +3 rating in a 3-1 game. It's real early but *he looks like a top10 talent to me and the best d-man in the draft behind Chychrun*.




No way??? areÂ´you sure you're not just overhyping him? If the draft will go as projected there will be two Finns in the top 5, and 1 in the top 10.. that's crazy for a small country that doesn't have the budget of Canada or Sweden for their organisations/player development (then again Juolevi went to the CHL)


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## Zaddy

teravaineSAROS said:


> No way??? areÂ´you sure you're not just overhyping him? If the draft will go as projected there will be two Finns in the top 5, and 1 in the top 10.. that's crazy for a small country that doesn't have the budget of Canada or Sweden for their organisations/player development (then again Juolevi went to the CHL)




Well, as I said, it's real early and it was just a preseason-game but he looks really, really good out there. I will keep a close eye on him this season. And yes, I think he definitely has a chance to go in the top10. He's already ranked #14 and #16 by HockeyProspect and Future Considerations, respectively. With a strong season I don't see why he can't climb into the top10. He plays such a mature game. He looked to be on a whole different level than the rest of the guys in this game. Was much more impressed by him than Tkachuk and Jones who are both ranked top5 by most scouts.


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## Loffer

Watching this kid's game is one of those small pleasures of life one shouldn't overlook. :thumb:


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## lanky

Tkachuk, Jones and Juolevi all made a very good decision to play in London this year. It's such a high profile place to play and with Marner and Dvorak they're going to be winners.


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## Uncle Scrooge

Considering how he's taken the same path as Maatta and is supposedly a bit better i could see him going very very high. Basically there will be a couple teams who desperately want a Maatta-type of player and think Juolevi can do the same if not more what Maatta has accomplished already. So in other words if a GM thinks he can jump right in and turn into a top 4 D very quickly he'll go ridiculously high.


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## JL17

I think Juolevi maybe a better player at this point then Maatta was at the same age. 

I've only seen him play once so far but he could do nothing wrong. IMO he's a better skater and little more skilled at moving the puck at this point then Maatta was.

Juolevi does look to have a smaller frame(body) then Maatta did thou.


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## Jussi

JL17 said:


> I think Juolevi maybe a better player at this point then Maatta was at the same age.
> 
> I've only seen him play once so far but he could do nothing wrong. IMO he's a better skater and little more skilled at moving the puck at this point then Maatta was.
> 
> *Juolevi does look to have a smaller frame(body) then Maatta did thou.*




He's one centimeter taller than MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤. I don't know how much MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤ weighed when he was playing in London.


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## JL17

Jussi said:


> He's one centimeter taller than MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤. I don't know how much MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤ weighed when he was playing in London.




Maatta was 200lbs as a 17 year old.


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## JMcLeaf

Scored his 1st goal tonight. Also picked up an assist earlier in the game. I've been very impressed with his play so far.


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## BB88

JMcLeaf said:


> Scored his 1st goal tonight. Also picked up an assist earlier in the game. I've been very impressed with his play so far.




He is going to be a beauty.


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## UsernameWasTaken

I've been really impressed with what I've seen from Juolevi so far. It's hard for me to compare him to Maatta at this point because it's so early in the season and I just don't have the memory to recall Maatta over the same early sample size. 

My initial gut reaction is I recall Maatta being more physically "bulky" when he came over. Juolevi initially strikes me as a better skater - but like I said, it's so hard to compare the two given the small sample size (and span of time since Maatta started with the Knights), so I might out to lunch on that observation  

Our Finnish friends will probably have better insight into comparisons than I can offer up . 

But with apologies for repeating myself, I'm really happy with Juolevi's play and that came to play for the Knights. 

Out of curiosity, what is the likelihood that he plays at WJC this year and will the fact he decided to play in N. Am. for his draft season have any impact on Finland's decision to put him on the WJC team?


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## JJTT

UsernameWasTaken said:


> Out of curiosity, what is the likelihood that he plays at WJC this year and will the fact he decided to play in N. Am. for his draft season have any impact on Finland's decision to put him on the WJC team?




Not really a factor. If he is good enough, he plays.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/video/index/id/26373c0c6a9d51e08f3c7bfceefe05af

Highlights from last night, assist at 0:17 and goal at 1:03


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## ChicagoBullsFan

UsernameWasTaken said:


> I've been really impressed with what I've seen from Juolevi so far. It's hard for me to compare him to Maatta at this point because it's so early in the season and I just don't have the memory to recall Maatta over the same early sample size.
> 
> My initial gut reaction is I recall Maatta being more physically "bulky" when he came over. Juolevi initially strikes me as a better skater - but like I said, it's so hard to compare the two given the small sample size (and span of time since Maatta started with the Knights), so I might out to lunch on that observation
> 
> Our Finnish friends will probably have better insight into comparisons than I can offer up .
> 
> But with apologies for repeating myself, I'm really happy with Juolevi's play and that came to play for the Knights.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what is the likelihood that he plays at WJC this year and will the fact he decided to play in N. Am. for his draft season have any impact on Finland's decision to put him on the WJC team?




Juolevi decided came to London Knights, because Jokerit Helsinki men's team plays in KHL. 
And their KHL defense is stacked, there's no free KHL spot for Juolevi. 

Of course he could have stay in Jokerit U20 team and play there, but Juolevi is already proved his skills in Finnish juniors.
Juolevi will be, Team Finland's roster in world juniors. ( If he stays healthy)

Actually Jukka Jalonen ( Finland's U20 team head coach), is coming to follow Finnish OHL players in october.
Jalonen has said Finland has five, potential world junior players in OHL


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## Loffer

Yup, if this kid doesn't make the cut barring injury I promise to stop writing on this board. 

At least, I promise to stop writing _****._


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## WTFMAN99

For some reason I thought he was a RD...either way, looked nice from what I have seen


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## Sundinisagod

WTFMAN99 said:


> *For some reason I thought he was a RD...either way, looked nice from what I have seen *



*

Wishful thinking no doubt *


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## FinPanda

Third among OHL rookies with 2-6-8 in 9 games. I've heard good things about him, but can someone tell more how he has played so far?


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## Roark

Not much hype around him although he could be top-10 pick. Maybe just a good thing.


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## puckfan13

Reminds me of Lindholm with better mobility.


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## DJB

I was a massive Maata fan his draft year and had him rated inside my top 10 (albeit some thought I was nuts), however not having many viewings on him, how would you compare them?


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## Orvelo

DJB said:


> I was a massive Maata fan his draft year and had him rated inside my top 10 (albeit some thought I was nuts), however not having many viewings on him, how would you compare them?




In a nutshell Juolevi better skater and better offensively MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤ more all-rounded and psychically a beast.


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## jaa

So Juolevi=hybrid of MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤ and Ristolainen?


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## thefeebster

I don't see Ristolainen at all in Juolevi's play. I find Juolevi physically immature. He looks very slight and can get outmuscled on the boards if he doesn't move the puck quick enough. I also haven't seen him lay a big hit or anything similar, so i wouldn't say he is physically a beast.


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## Loffer

thefeebster said:


> I don't see Ristolainen at all in Juolevi's play. I find Juolevi physically immature. He looks very slight and can get outmuscled on the boards if he doesn't move the puck quick enough. I also haven't seen him lay a big hit or anything similar, so i wouldn't say he is physically a beast.




Nobody said he is physically a beast...Maatta in comparison to Juolevi was called as such.


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## thefeebster

Loffer said:


> Nobody said he is physically a beast...Maatta in comparison to Juolevi was called as such.



My mistake. The lack of commas in the previous post made it sound like Juolevi was the physical beast.


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## Jetabre

thefeebster said:


> Have you read this page of the thread? Word for word, someone said that.




That quote is stating that Maatta is more all-rounded and physically a beast compared to Juolevi. Albeit a period should have been there to separate the sentences.


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## Mad Brills*

possible leafs pick due to hunter?


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## Steve Kournianos

*The Draft Analyst 2016 Draft Profile: Olli Juolevi*



> *Juolevi is a tremendous, powerful skater who makes carrying the puck up the ice seem effortless. What really stands out is his agility and quickness moving both laterally and backwards. You can classify him as your atypical offensive-minded defenseman who always looks to make a play or expand on one that has already developed. Transitioning from blue line to blue line is his bread and butter, and he expands his options not only from his mobility, but from his exceptional passing prowess and vision. Juoleviâ€™s passes are hard and on the tape, and the acumen he provides while doing so is why heâ€™s so highly regarded.*




http://www.thedraftanalyst.com/prospects/olli-juolevi/

Hard not to like this kid's offensive game. The 150-foot bank pass I saw him give Tkachuk still blows me away. Such an accurate passer.


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## Zaddy

DM23BK30 said:


> http://www.thedraftanalyst.com/prospects/olli-juolevi/
> 
> Hard not to like this kid's offensive game. The 150-foot bank pass I saw him give Tkachuk still blows me away. Such an accurate passer.




Yup. He's like the prototypical modern defenseman. I think his game is going to translate pretty seemlessly into the NHL. Seems like a safe pick to be a top4 defenseman with potential to be a top-pairing guy. Elite skater with an elite transition game. That's the type of guy you need to go far into the playoffs. Curious to see which team will pick him up.


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## Jayevs

Is he likely a high end PPQB at the NHL level?


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## My Cozen Dylan

2 questions:

What's the proper pronunciation of his name?

Could he play in the NHL next year?


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## 93LEAFS

jawallstar1 said:


> 2 questions:
> 
> What's the proper pronunciation of his name?
> 
> *Could he play in the NHL next year?*



Maybe, but its probably not a good idea unless you can adequately shield him, plus depending on how his agreement to play in London is set up he might be AHL eligible (see Honka), which is probably the best option. Usually unless a kid is super elite and developed (see Ekblad) you probably don't want an 18 year old defender in the NHL.


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## HockeyHistorian

The first syllable is stressed and pronounced YU. The O is pronounced short like in the word "opportunity". LE is pronounced similarly as in the word "less" and VI more or less like "we". The most important part is the first and stressed syllable YU.


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## My Cozen Dylan

HockeyHistorian said:


> The first syllable is stressed and pronounced YU. The O is pronounced short like in the word "opportunity". LE is pronounced similarly as in the word "less" and VI more or less like "we". The most important part is the first and stressed syllable YU.




So... YU-ah-leh-vee or YU-oh-leh-vee??


----------



## SpinninRodIntoArmpit

jawallstar1 said:


> So... YU-ah-leh-vee or YU-oh-leh-vee??




The latter.


----------



## Suurikelmi

jawallstar1 said:


> So... YU-ah-leh-vee or YU-oh-leh-vee??




YU-oh-leh-ve is closest I can explain it to a foreigner.


----------



## rduck1

jawallstar1 said:


> So... YU-ah-leh-vee or YU-oh-leh-vee??




YOO-aw-leh-vee(kind of like saying the English words You-Awe-Levee in a row without pausing), except quicker of course. There's also secondary emphasis on the third syllable(as there usually is in Finnish).


----------



## edd1e

Does he compare to Brodin in terms of style?


----------



## myrsky

Here https://translate.google.com/#fi/en/juolevi


----------



## HockeyHistorian

myrsky said:


> Here https://translate.google.com/#fi/en/juolevi




This is the best always.


----------



## Loffer

HockeyHistorian said:


> This is the best always.




Is it?? It's awful and completely off! 

As is "You awe Levee"... 


For Finns: It is pronounced like "Juo (drink) and Levi (a world cup slope in Lapland/or the two first syllables from "levitoida" (levitate)" though no emphasis on "le"...

For NAs: It is pronounced like " Y (w)oo(ah) and the first syllable from "LEvitate" and the thrid syllable from "alleVIate". 

And that's about it. I guess.

Frankly, who the hell knows anymore how it should be pronounced. Since everybody does it in his own idiosyncratic way. So it seems at least. 

Could somebody tell me how it should be pronounced? I mean you, Olli Juolevi.


----------



## Noma

Loffer said:


> Is it?? It's awful and completely off!




How is that completely off? It sounds pretty good to me. Of course a bit robotic, but still right.


----------



## ChadS

Noma said:


> How is that completely off? It sounds pretty good to me. Of course a bit robotic, but still right.



When I clicked the link it was translating from Finnish to English and therefore it was completely off. You need to choose translate from English to Finnish and then play the audio for it to be correct...


----------



## Starry Knight

rduck1 said:


> YOO-aw-leh-vee(kind of like saying the English words You-Awe-Levee in a row without pausing), except quicker of course. There's also secondary emphasis on the third syllable(as there usually is in Finnish).




It makes me so mad when all the announcers for the OHL are calling him Joe-lee-vi. Even the Knights home announcers are doing it. Why wouldn't you go and ask the guy how to pronounce his name before butchering it for 40+ games a year?


----------



## HockeyHistorian

One of the greatest mispronounced hockey names I remember was Juha YlÃ¶nen in one of EA Sports NHL games; it sounded like the guy was saying Yellow-nen 

To keep this even a little on topic, there was a nice little article on YLE website about Juolevi today. I'm on a phone so I'm not able to post a link or a translation, but hopefully someone else is.


----------



## Unbiased

Calling it now but Leafs will trade down and grab this guy.


----------



## Orvelo

Unbiased said:


> Calling it now but Leafs will trade down and grab this guy.




Trade down?


----------



## Unbiased

Orvelo said:


> Trade down?




Can you elaborate?

Aside from Matthews I'd honestly be fine trading any 2-5 pick down and picking up a significant haul back.

I really don't think in the long run Cychyrun is gonna be a tier above Juolevi in their careers, it would only make everything else coming back to the Leafs a bonus.


----------



## Leviathan899

I have always pronounced his name like Yo-Levy. Is that right?


----------



## JJTT

Goodrow277 said:


> I have always pronounced his name like Yo-Levy. Is that right?




Close enough.


----------



## Noma

ChadS said:


> When I clicked the link it was translating from Finnish to English and therefore it was completely off. You need to choose translate from English to Finnish and then play the audio for it to be correct...




You can press the audio button on the source side too. That one is Finnish on the original link.


----------



## Loffer

Noma said:


> You can press the audio button on the source side too. That one is Finnish on the original link.




Quite right. Sorry. The source audio sounds business. I listened to the English version.


----------



## Sundinisagod

Unbiased said:


> Calling it now but Leafs will trade down and grab this guy.




Personally, I think trading up from the Pens 1st is more likely, assuming the Pens make the playoffs.


----------



## Orvelo

Unbiased said:


> Can you elaborate?
> 
> Aside from Matthews I'd honestly be fine trading any 2-5 pick down and picking up a significant haul back.
> 
> I really don't think in the long run Cychyrun is gonna be a tier above Juolevi in their careers, it would only make everything else coming back to the Leafs a bonus.




I meant that juolevi is going pretty high and toronto is going to have a high draft pick.


----------



## Unbiased

Orvelo said:


> I meant that juolevi is going pretty high and toronto is going to have a high draft pick.




I'd say he'll be in the 7-10 range but my comment was based more on if theyre picking like 2-5


----------



## agent082

Good tournament for him so far.


----------



## Eidyia

agent082 said:


> Good tournament for him so far.




Yeah. I don't know if it's worrying or good that a 17-year-old have been easily the best defender for Finland so far. Amazing calmness, composure and positioning, love this guy.


----------



## FinPanda

Best Finnish d-man in this tournament. Not surprising as he is the only one with great potential.

Edit: Forgot SaarijÃ¤rvi, but Juolevi has still better potential. But he has also potential to be an NHL player.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

He has been good offensively, couple of blunders in the Russia game (the whole team started sucking though) and a small question mark defensively for me. I can agree that he has been arguably our best defender, but he could improve his defensive play.


----------



## JJTT

2 more assists today. Both were really nice. Must have played nearly 40 minutes too.


----------



## Zaddy

Just amazing how many draft-eligible players have been good in the WJC this year. Even more impressing when it's a d-man as is the case with Juolevi. I think he's been a bit up and down from what I've seen so far in this tournament but he's definitely been more good than bad and that's very good for a 98-born d-man. I think he looks better than Provorov did at the same tournament last year.


----------



## thomast

Clearly #1 D for Finland. Most points for defenseman in the tournament so far. Impressive showing getting shadowed by incredible play of Laine/Puljujarvi.


----------



## spacemunky

Love to have him on the Sabres.

We love our Finnish D-men


----------



## FinPanda

Best D on the team AINEC.


----------



## Jayevs

spacemunky said:


> Love to have him on the Sabres.
> 
> We love our Finnish D-men




Would make sense if they're picking in the 5-10 range and Chychrun is gone


----------



## Zaddy

spacemunky said:


> Love to have him on the Sabres.
> 
> We love our Finnish D-men




Him and Risto could be a very good top pairing down the line. I think Juolevi is going to be an excellent #2D in the NHL one day.


----------



## behemolari

HockeyHistorian said:


> One of the greatest mispronounced hockey names I remember was Juha YlÃ¶nen in one of EA Sports NHL games; it sounded like the guy was saying Yellow-nen
> 
> To keep this even a little on topic, there was a nice little article on YLE website about Juolevi today. I'm on a phone so I'm not able to post a link or a translation, but hopefully someone else is.




you can't beat that.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ8Yo9V3OR8

"Fedoriffi" and "Teppo Winnipegin Nummisen Tee-Teppo Nummisen Winnipeg" with same sentence


----------



## DJB

Unbiased said:


> Calling it now but Leafs will trade *up* and grab this guy.




Fixed.


----------



## Apotheosis

I hope that the Leafs second 1st round pick actually comes to fruition and he either drops to that 11-16 range or we package that pick and a 2nd rounder to get into range to draft him. He looked really solid out there. It also depends on who the Leafs draft. If they came out with Chychrun first, getting Juolevi would literally set our D core up for years.


----------



## 1990*

Reminds me of a not-cursed-by-the-heavens Olli MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

This guy is really good. Top-15 easily


----------



## JJTT

Vasilevskiy said:


> This guy is really good. Top-15 easily




More like top7


----------



## Unbiased

Apotheosis said:


> I hope that the Leafs second 1st round pick actually comes to fruition and he either drops to that 11-16 range or we package that pick and a 2nd rounder to get into range to draft him. He looked really solid out there. It also depends on who the Leafs draft. If they came out with Chychrun first, getting Juolevi would literally set our D core up for years.





I'd take him 5th if we had the pick. Guy already plays like a professional player


----------



## Roark

Yep, this is a guy a team can build on. Definitely #1 defenceman potential


----------



## thomast

Best defenceman in the tournament so far. He have been just good as Laine and Puljujarvi. Reminds me so much off LidstrÃ¶m. That poise, that skill and versality. Not gonna say he is close being that calibre of player but that style.


----------



## Gabranth

Unbiased said:


> I'd take him 5th if we had the pick. Guy already plays like a professional player




I don't think that he will go that high, but he is top 10 material for sure.


----------



## Ace

If Buffalo misses out on the top few picks...this could end up being the partner Ristolainen has been waiting for.


----------



## The Winter Soldier

Very noticable against Canada. His draft stock will rise.


----------



## Sweetpotato

thomast said:


> Best defenceman in the tournament so far. He have been just good as Laine and Puljujarvi. Reminds me so much off LidstrÃ¶m. That poise, that skill and versality. Not gonna say he is close being that calibre of player but that style.




This is the first thing that came to my mind as well. Just unreal for his age.


----------



## canuckfan75

is he really 6"2 looks like 6"0 guy


----------



## enj92

thomast said:


> *Best defenceman in the tournament so far*. He have been just good as Laine and Puljujarvi. Reminds me so much off LidstrÃ¶m. That poise, that skill and versality. Not gonna say he is close being that calibre of player but that style.




Provorov


----------



## JJTT

canuckfan75 said:


> is he really 6"2 looks like 6"0 guy




He is just really skinny.


----------



## JJTT

9 points already.


----------



## bob27

I wouldn't be surprised if he has more points than McDavid had in his draft eligible WJC year when all is said and done.


----------



## ChicagoBullsFan

Ace said:


> If Buffalo misses out on the top few picks...this could end up being the partner Ristolainen has been waiting for.




I think Toronto is going to take Juolevi in TOP10.
Mark Hunter is former GM of the London Knights OHL team so i'm sure he knows Olli's star potential already really well.

As a Finn i wanna see Ristolainen and Juolevi together in Buffalo.
But how likely it'll be.


----------



## FinPanda

Juolevi was 0+3 and +3 today.


----------



## Novacane

I'd love to get him if we're in that range. Can't have enough defensemen


----------



## agent082

I think he looks more impressive than he should because there is no other good defensemen in team Finland. He is amazing but he is draft eligble and should be #2 or #3 in a normal top 4 WJC team.


----------



## BusQuets

agent082 said:


> I think he looks more impressive than he should because there is no other good defensemen in team Finland. He is amazing but he is draft eligble and should be #2 or #3 in a normal top 4 WJC team.




Weird way to think. To me it's much harder to look impressive when you have to be the #1 defenceman at that age than to play safe #3-4 role. He's now proving that he can be the #1 defenceman and excel at that.


----------



## stempniaksen

Have been a big fan of this kid since I saw him play last season. Definitely looks like he'll be following in Risto and Maatta's footsteps. He's just so poised at all times. They showed a sequence on TSN where he rushed the puck up the from behind his own net all the way into the oppositions corner, and it looked like he was toying with the other team.

I'd take him in the top-five without hesitation, I have less questions about his future than some of the top-end forwards (outside of Matthews).


----------



## KK91

looked very good and opened up my eyes today. i project him to be a perfect number 2-3 D when its all said and done.


----------



## Roark

KK91 said:


> looked very good and opened up my eyes today. i project him to be a perfect number 2-3 D when its all said and done.




More like 1-2 D


----------



## KK91

Roark said:


> More like 1-2 D




Who do you compare him to?


----------



## Prins Filip

Roark said:


> More like 1-2 D




Hopefully. He reminds me a lot of Shattenkirk. Would be incredible if he reaches that level some day.


----------



## The Winter Soldier

He will likely move into the top 10 based on recent play. #16 on ISS right now. Looking fwd to seeing more of him against Sweden.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

He's the only defenseman on Finland who has impressed me, and he's the youngest. He's played well in this tournament.

There are so many draft-eligible players that are playing well. I think Matthews, Laine, Pulju is the top three in some order. After that, I don't know. Tkachuk has been good, but not as impressive as the others. Maybe he falls out of the top five, although I don't think he'd fall that far. Chychrun isn't at this tournament, but he's been viewed as the consensus #1D in this draft class. McAvoy is having a very good tournament, Nylander is having a very good tournament, Gauthier had a good tournament. Dubois is probably a top 10 talent, as is Sergachyov. Fabbro and Jost are playing against weaker competition, but they are very talented. They could be top 10 picks. McLeod could be a top ten pick. I also think Rubtsov will be a top ten pick. There are so many top ten talents in this draft. I think a lot of people are not giving this draft the praise it deserves. I think its better than last year's. Last year was only a good draft because of McEichel. The rest of it was a pretty average draft.


----------



## KK91

Prins Filip said:


> Hopefully. He reminds me a lot of Shattenkirk. Would be incredible if he reaches that level some day.




Today was the very first time seeing him play so i plan on keeping tabs on him going forward. If he blossoms into a Shattenkirk then i'd say he should be a sure fire top 5 pick.


----------



## Zaddy

canuckfan75 said:


> is he really 6"2 looks like 6"0 guy




I've had the same thought. Really does not look like 6'2 out there. 



Roark said:


> More like 1-2 D




I've been really high on Juolevi since pre-season but even so, I'm not convinced he is going to be a #1D at the NHL level. Rather I expect him to end up as a really good #2 down the road. He would have to improve quite dramatically in a couple of areas like shot, strength, physicality etc to be a true number #1 IMO. Because right now he isn't really a guy who commands or takes over a game. He's more a safe guy who you can trust to play a lot of minutes, is great in transition and can deliver crisp passes, but I don't think he has that dynamic offensive upside. It's not impossible that he develops it, but it's not something I'd bank on him doing. Will be a great player regardless.


----------



## KK91

Zaddy Zads said:


> I've had the same thought. Really does not look like 6'2 out there.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been really high on Juolevi since pre-season but even so, I'm not convinced he is going to be a #1D at the NHL level. Rather I expect him to end up as a really good #2 down the road. He would have to improve quite dramatically in a couple of areas like shot, strength, physicality etc to be a true number #1 IMO. Because right now he isn't really a guy who commands or takes over a game. He's more a safe guy who you can trust to play a lot of minutes, is great in transition and can deliver crisp passes, but I don't think he has that dynamic offensive upside. It's not impossible that he develops it, but it's not something I'd bank on him doing. Will be a great player regardless.




i feel the same way. I look at a guy like Ivan Provorov on Russia who i think will be a number 1 D in the show and just oozes that vibe when you watch him. I just don't feel the same way about Levi. Either way he will be a solid D in the show all the best to him.


----------



## Zaddy

KK91 said:


> i feel the same way. I look at a guy like Ivan Provorov on Russia who i think will be a number 1 D in the show and just oozes that vibe when you watch him. I just don't feel the same way about Levi. Either way he will be a solid D in the show all the best to him.




Agree, big fan of Provorov.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

He plays like Keith Yandle.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

Zaddy Zads said:


> I've had the same thought. Really does not look like 6'2 out there.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been really high on Juolevi since pre-season but even so, I'm not convinced he is going to be a #1D at the NHL level. Rather I expect him to end up as a really good #2 down the road. He would have to improve quite dramatically in a couple of areas like shot, strength, physicality etc to be a true number #1 IMO. Because right now he isn't really a guy who commands or takes over a game. He's more a safe guy who you can trust to play a lot of minutes, is great in transition and can deliver crisp passes, but I don't think he has that dynamic offensive upside. It's not impossible that he develops it, but it's not something I'd bank on him doing. Will be a great player regardless.




IMO he's very dynamic offensively. It's not a coincidence that he's leading defensemen in points. That slap pass to Aho or whoever who passed it forward to PuljujÃ¤rvi for a goal was very nice, then the drop pass to Laine for the GWG. And his play tonight where he pulled the Canadian defense to him and made that absurd pass to Saarela... He definitely has great offensive skills and creativity. The Aho-line gets a lot of praise for Finland's offensive prowess, but Juolevi's play at the blue line has been vital for it too, especially on the power play. It seems that almost everything he touches on PP turns into gold. Add in his good all-around game and you have a nice package right there. I don't think it's outlandish to say he has 1D potential.


----------



## Coedae

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> He plays like Keith Yandle.




More like current Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Duncan Keith. Smooth, skilled, great everywhere.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Coedae said:


> More like current Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Duncan Keith. Smooth, skilled, great everywhere.




I don't think he has that type of shot or defensive game, but he should put up a lot of points, help the puck moving of the team he is on and not be too bad defensively.


----------



## Jetabre

Filling out will help with a lot of the negatives people point out about his game.


----------



## BusQuets

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I don't think he has that type of shot or defensive game, but he should put up a lot of points, help the puck moving of the team he is on and not be too bad defensively.




You know that Juolevi's prime strength is his defensive game and not his offensive game right?


----------



## Anardil

TBH, I didn't really notice him today, and that is not a bad thing. The Finnish d-men that were noticable mostly because of poor play. The fact that he has produced all tourney long as an under ager is very impressive.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Tuomaz said:


> You know that Juolevi's prime strength is his defensive game and not his offensive game right?




I've been more impressed with his offensive game. I don't think he's bad defensively, but I don't think he's been a shutdown defenseman so far. I probably just haven't watched him play enough.


----------



## agent082

Anardil said:


> TBH, I didn't really notice him today, and that is not a bad thing.




After 0+3 (and +3) that is mostly because of you.


----------



## Roark

A lot has been said about Pulju-Aho-Laine but if you watch the highlights Juolevi is often the playmaker who gives the crucial assist. I didn't notice this earlier but when I was going through the higlights from the earlier games, I saw #4 a lot! 

Smarts, passing, defensive game, mobility... He's got it all. The shot is only thing he is lacking. It is just impressive that he's got so good overall package already at the age of 17. I'm guessing it won't take much time to see him in the NHL. I see Olli Maatta + in him.


----------



## BusQuets

Roark said:


> A lot has been said about Pulju-Aho-Laine but if you watch the highlights Juolevi is often the playmaker who gives the crucial assist. I didn't notice this earlier but when I was going through the higlights from the earlier games, I saw #4 a lot!
> 
> Smarts, passing, defensive game, mobility... He's got it all. The shot is only thing he is lacking. It is just impressive that he's got so good overall package already at the age of 17. I'm guessing it won't take much time to see him in the NHL. I see Olli Maatta + in him.




The biggest difference to Maatta is definitely Juolevi's much better skating.


----------



## WhiskeyYerTheDevils

He's like a mix of OEL and Maatta. Doesn't quite have the shot of OEL at this point, but he's damn impressive.


----------



## AuraSphere

Anardil said:


> TBH, I didn't really notice him today, and that is not a bad thing. The Finnish d-men that were noticable mostly because of poor play. The fact that he has produced all tourney long as an under ager is very impressive.




You must've been watching the wrong game... he was the most noticeable player on the finns


----------



## thomast

AuraSphere said:


> You must've been watching the wrong game... he was the most noticeable player on the finns




Him or Laine but was he dominant at that one shift where he passed Kalapudas to partial breakaway. That entire shift was pure dominance by Juolevi. What about his play on NÃ¤ttinen goal where he goes past 3 canadian players and gives high end pass to Saarela for open net. This kid has some upside.


----------



## kelsier

This year's Ristolainen without the physical edge. Some crazy offensive upside here and by far the best Finnish defender today.


----------



## Episkey

Juolevi has been fantastic most of the tournament. Definitely some high potential. He's not just a one-trick pony either, his all around game is impressive.


----------



## carlweezer*

Impressed w. Him ! His stock has risen to top 10 status.


----------



## hellvetet

He kinda reminds me of OHL Pietrangelo. Smooth and effortless skating combined with swift decision making all around the ice and a preference to rely on stick and wits while defending. Juolevi's stick work on the defensive side isn't quite as impressive as Pietrangelo's was but his overall offensive arsenal seems more versatile and advanced.


----------



## SpinninRodIntoArmpit

Just in case this hasn't been mentioned. He has broken Ryan Ellis's record for most points in U20 WJC for U18 defencemen afaic.


----------



## agent082

Finnish Tank Support said:


> Just in case this hasn't been mentioned. He has broken Ryan Ellis's record for most points in U20 WJC for U18 defencemen afaic.




Don't think it is mentioned. That is cool information.


----------



## Nucker101

Impressed the hell outta me in this tournament.


----------



## Hardyvan123

Finnish Tank Support said:


> Just in case this hasn't been mentioned. He has broken Ryan Ellis's record for most points in U20 WJC for U18 defencemen afaic.




Part of that would be a function of being on the PP with that top line out there.

Although I came to the thread to say how impressed I was in todays game with his overall play and skating ability.


----------



## BB88

Hardyvan123 said:


> Part of that would be a function of being on the PP with that top line out there.
> 
> Although I came to the thread to say how impressed I was in todays game with his overall play and skating ability.




He has made some huge plays on that pp and has been a reason for their goals.

He's been a beast so far, so damm impressed.


----------



## carlweezer*

Scouts are salivating. He is now 100 percent getting drafted ahead of guys like FabroMacevoy and Bean who were recently ahead of him in rankings.


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

He's been fantastic this tournament - I'm impressed with his play as it is, but even more so given his age. IMO he's been the 3rd best dman in the tournament after Provorov and Werenski.


----------



## Daximus

Think he will definitely be the 2nd defencemen picked in this years draft. Probably go between 6-10 I think.
He's like the Joe Thornton of offensive defencemen in the sense that he has elite vision, playmaking and passing skills. He makes such a crisp first pass. The games I've watched London play he is not utilized as much as Finland used him. London's coaching staff needs to figure that out quickly. He can be a much bigger threat if he is pinching in often and becoming part of the play.


----------



## ChrisScoresburn

I've been very impressed with what I've seen of him in the wjc this year. He fits in so well with the high octane offence of Finland, great first pass and looks like if he goes at 16 like iss predicts he'll be the steal of the draft.


----------



## 93LEAFS

If he carries this back to London I could see a Provorov like rise where he starts to challenge Chychrun. I've watched alot of Knights this year and he's been at his best this WJC. It might be a bit of his familiarity with big ice, the time he on the puck he gets to having outlets like Laine, Aho and PuljujÃ¤rvi who are explosive.


----------



## King'sPawn

Hey all, as some of you may know, I make shift by shift videos to isolate a player and get an idea of a player's strengths, weaknesses, and style of play.

I just made a shift by shift video on Juolevi based on his performance at the Finland/Canada game. I hope you enjoy!


----------



## JJTT

King'sPawn said:


> Hey all, as some of you may know, I make shift by shift videos to isolate a player and get an idea of a player's strengths, weaknesses, and style of play.
> 
> I just made a shift by shift video on Juolevi based on his performance at the Finland/Canada game. I hope you enjoy!





TSN.ca has full games with English commentary, might be better to use those than Russian commentary ones if you are planning to do more of these.

http://www.tsn.ca/video/on-demand


----------



## King'sPawn

JJTT said:


> TSN.ca has full games with English commentary, might be better to use those than Russian commentary ones if you are planning to do more of these.
> 
> http://www.tsn.ca/video/on-demand




Thank you!


----------



## Vasilevskiy

KK91 said:


> Who do you compare him to?




Reminded me of Stralman


----------



## FinPanda

Juolevi had 0+4 really yesterday. He wasn't given assist to 3-3 goal for some reason. He played the puck to PuljujÃ¤rvi who played it to Saarela who scores.


----------



## Hokinaittii

FinPanda said:


> Juolevi had 0+4 really yesterday. He wasn't given assist to 3-3 goal for some reason. He played the puck to PuljujÃ¤rvi who played it to Saarela who scores.



True. There's no way why he shouldn't be given an assist for that goal. I'm curious why they haven't changed it already. It's not like it was an assist in a training match or something.


----------



## BB88

FinPanda said:


> Juolevi had 0+4 really yesterday. He wasn't given assist to 3-3 goal for some reason. He played the puck to PuljujÃ¤rvi who played it to Saarela who scores.




I watched that play again and it's a clear assist for Juolevi.


----------



## SoupyFIN

The move he made to draw the 3 Canadian players to himself before assisting Nattinen's goal, was very Brian Campbell esque.


----------



## BB88

This guy is a beast, what a player.
So fun to watch him play.


----------



## TweetyLeaf

KK91 said:


> Who do you compare him to?




This comparison applies ONLY when he has the puck. But the calmness and style he handles the puck, how he sees the ice and seems to make very good decisions reminds me a lot of fellow Fin Timonen.

Without the puck he is different and his skating style is different. But with puck, Timonen, definitely.


----------



## PrinceOfPucks

Very good prospect. He and Macevoy with the States raised their draft value ! Juolevo will surprise and get drafted in top 10.


----------



## Keke

PrinceOfPucks said:


> Juolevo will surprise and get drafted in top 10.




Wouldn't be a surprise for me. Always thought that he was the most talented d from Finland.


----------



## LeftBackLegend

Was secretly hoping against hope that Detroit would manage to draft him somehow, no chance of that happening now.


----------



## Brewsky

Looks like a mix of Gonchar/Lumme.

I see him going in the 8-11 range.


----------



## WilliamNylander

Craig Button did a quick top 15 mock today and had Juolevi going at 7 to the Leafs.

Very interesting how quick his stock has risen in just a few weeks.


----------



## Eye of Ra

Anti-Jussi Niemi copy.


----------



## Tapu Coco

Want him on the Sabres, next to risto for a while.


----------



## BB88

WilliamNylander said:


> Craig Button did a quick top 15 mock today and had Juolevi going at 7 to the Leafs.
> 
> Very interesting how quick his stock has risen in just a few weeks.




Not that surprised, he's been slowly going up during the season and this tournament gives him a huge boost.

Before the tournament I was thinking he is a 8-12 range pick and can't see him dropping below that now.


----------



## untouchable21

In the right scenario, I can see Juolevi rising up to the 6-9 range.

I think some teams may regret passing up on him after all is said and done.


----------



## Jussi

TheFatOne said:


> Anti-Jussi Niemi copy.




Way better skater and better offensive instincts than Niemi.


----------



## BB88

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/will-the-2016-nhl-draft-even-have-a-canadian-in-the-top-5/



> Fair to say, NHL scouts saw Laine and Puljujarvi coming. They were clearly in the mix for the top five. But a name that is coming into play from farther back based on the first couple of months of the CHL season is Olli Juolevi, a Finnish defenceman whoâ€™s has 23 points in 29 games with (yeah, again) the London Knights in this his OHL rookie season.
> 
> A few weeks back, before the under-20 teams were selected, I spoke to one Ontario-based scout, a bit of a contrarian by nature, but he was unequivocal about Juolevi and Chychrun. â€œLove the Finnish kid,â€ the scout said. â€œHe makes plays every shift. Chychrun has tools, obvious ability, but too often heâ€™s waiting for play to come to him.â€
> 
> What was his opinion in the minority previously seems to be approaching consensus. Chychrun was cut loose in the Canadian tryouts and Juolevi has shone. â€œI had Chychrun ahead of [Juolevi] but Iâ€™ve flipped them based on his play here,â€ one scout said Sunday. [Juolevi] played what, 30 minutes against Canada [in the quarterfinal]. He didnâ€™t have such a big game against Sweden but still heâ€™s the Finnsâ€™ best defenceman. Maybe the best in the tournament.â€




What a time to be a Finn hockey fan


----------



## Baggie

BB88 said:


> What a time to be a Finn hockey fan




Truly.

Things were looking pretty bad a couple of years ago. Even during 2010 draft where we had Granlund and Pulkkinen who were supposed to be the next generation of elite finnish hockey players. Granlund propably is a generational talent in finnish hockey, but everyone knew he lacks the tools to make the final cut towards stardom in the NHL (skating and/or size). In contrast to this, sweden was consistently producing prospects that had great set of talent, combined with great skating and good size.


----------



## MarVell

He needs to work on his first steps. Great passer!


----------



## FiLe

Baggie said:


> Things were looking pretty bad a couple of years ago. Even during 2010 draft where we had Granlund and Pulkkinen who were supposed to be the next generation of elite finnish hockey players. Granlund propably is a generational talent in finnish hockey, but everyone knew he lacks the tools to make the final cut towards stardom in the NHL (skating and/or size).



Granlund is way above the Finnish average, but if we're talking about "generational" in this context, we're talking about Barkov.

Juolevi, Laine and PuljujÃ¤rvi can reach for that status too, no doubt.


----------



## Baggie

FiLe said:


> Granlund is way above the Finnish average, but if we're talking about "generational" in this context, we're talking about Barkov.




Barkov is the generational talent, atleast for finland, that we have been waiting for.

About Granlund, I wasn't saying he's average. He's one of the best finnish players, but not what majority of people expected him to be. My point was that there were a lot of great finnish prospects around 2010, who just happened to lack size and skating to become NHL'ers. Granlund and Vatanen are solid NHL'ers right now but could be elite ones if they had more size (and in Granlund's case better skating). Now our best prospects are blessed with huge bodies and no major skating issues, just like sweden. 

Sorry for derailing the thread


----------



## agent082

How many draft eligible defenseman has been on a All star team in WJC?


----------



## JJTT

agent082 said:


> How many draft eligible defenseman has been on a All star team in WJC?




Doughty 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/awards.php?award=U20 WJC All-Star Team


----------



## FinPanda

Hedman too?


----------



## WTFMAN99

At the 7-8 range, (as long as no shockers come earlier ala Thomas Hickey) I'd happily take him on the Leafs, think he and Rielly would be pretty dynamic, smart, fast, strong..


----------



## FiLe

Baggie said:


> About Granlund, I wasn't saying he's average.



And I wasn't implying you said so. What I meant is that while Granlund is high end, and will no doubt serve our NT whenever he's available and willing for the next decade and half, he's not generational as you called him. Even by Finnish standards (which seem to have gone up a bit lately).

Barkov's currently set the bar, and it'll be interesting to see if Juolevi, Pulju and Laine can reach same heights.


----------



## monster_bertuzzi

Brewsky said:


> Looks like a mix of Gonchar/Lumme.
> 
> I see him going in the 8-11 range.




Love me some Gonchar..


----------



## wings5

Listed at almost 6'3 but I might generously give him 6'1.


----------



## HockeyHistorian

wings5 said:


> Listed at almost 6'3 but I might generously give him 6'1.




I think that generally people overvalue players' height and that a few inches matters next to nothing, but I take issue with these kind of posts. I think that people should more or less go with the given measurements since they seem to be systematically all over the place. But I digress:






Laine 6'4, Puljujarvi 6'4, Juolevi 6'2.5, Salo 6'0, Vaakanainen 6'1. I think the measurements seem plausible (taking perspective, their postures and other such matters into account).


----------



## BusQuets

wings5 said:


> Listed at almost 6'3 but I might generously give him 6'1.









I highly doubt it.


----------



## myrsky

wings5 said:


> Listed at almost 6'3 but I might generously give him 6'1.




You're absolutely right and it should be obvious to anyone watching the games. He's not 6'2.

Pictures are ALWAYS wrong. Just look at this picture from last summer. Rantanen was measured at 6'3.5" at the combine, Ristolainen was measured 6'4 at the combine. Still Rantanen looks like he could be 6'6 in that picture.


----------



## HockeyHistorian

myrsky said:


> You're absolutely right and it should be obvious to anyone watching the games. He's not 6'2.
> 
> Pictures are ALWAYS wrong. Just look at this picture from last summer. Rantanen was measured at 6'3.5" at the combine, Ristolainen was measured 6'4 at the combine. Still *Rantanen looks like he could be 6'6 in that picture*.




He does not. They look like they are both 6'4 and Rantanen has higher hair. But I agree about the fact that pictures can lie, which is why you should maybe just trust the measurements given.


----------



## myrsky

HockeyHistorian said:


> He does not. They look like they are both 6'4 and Rantanen has higher hair. But I agree about the fact that pictures can lie, which is why you should maybe just trust the measurements given.




No. Rantanen walks further behind, has his head tilted and yet he towers over Ristolainen.


----------



## BusQuets

"Pictures are ALWAYS wrong, just look at this picture that took 1 hour to find and is from far away as possible and the people in it are moving".  Of course some pictures lie but the most won't if the players are side by side and relatively close. To say every picture is always wrong is just madness.


----------



## Cueb

http://imgur.com/gallery/zfUm1fe

On topic: I'm happy that Juolevi is doing well but in my opinion people might be over hyping him a bit. I think he needs to improve his shot to be first rate defender.


----------



## ps241

For those who watch Juolevi and the Knights allot I am concerned that his scoring numbers are a bit modest. He is London's top scoring D man which is good but on a team that puts up so many points I would think he would be doing a bit better. Who is the D man deployed on the #1 PP unit? Any insights as to why he has put up 36 points in 51 games would help. 

I loved his game at the WJHC with the Fins.


----------



## 93LEAFS

ps241 said:


> For those who watch Juolevi and the Knights allot I am concerned that his scoring numbers are a bit modest. He is London's top scoring D man which is good but on a team that puts up so many points I would think he would be doing a bit better. Who is the D man deployed on the #1 PP unit? Any insights as to why he has put up 36 points in 51 games would help.
> 
> I loved his game at the WJHC with the Fins.



He's on the top pp unit, but London runs a 4f-1d set up with Marner qbing it.


----------



## Morgs

He's on the top PP most of the time, but Hunter likes putting Mete on the unit sometimes as well. I'd say 60/40 split. 

Also very hard for them to put up points, the offence really goes through Marner and Dvo.


----------



## Mad Brills*

Think he's a top 10 lock?


----------



## Marc the Habs Fan

Mad Brills said:


> Think he's a top 10 lock?




Absolutely. Look at all the bottom 10 teams that need D's, especially LD's. At some point, one of these teams will grab Juolevi because he's damn good and fills a clear need:

Toronto (their prospect list is all forwards at the top)
Edmonton (goes without saying)
Buffalo (their LD is in dire need of help)
Winnipeg (ditto)
Arizona (their prospect list is all forwards at the top)
Montreal (we need LDs for the future)
Vancouver (also needs D for the future)


----------



## 93LEAFS

Marc the Habs Fan said:


> Absolutely. Look at all the bottom 10 teams that need D's, especially LD's. At some point, one of these teams will grab Juolevi because he's damn good and fills a clear need:
> 
> Toronto *(their prospect list is all forwards at the top)*
> Edmonton (goes without saying)
> Buffalo (their LD is in dire need of help)
> Winnipeg (ditto)
> Arizona (their prospect list is all forwards at the top)
> Montreal (we need LDs for the future)
> Vancouver (also needs D for the future)



Dermott and Nielsen are both in our top 8, and Zaitsev (we are front runners to sign him) should give us the flexibility to go BPA, we are also fairly LD heavy.


----------



## Marc the Habs Fan

93LEAFS said:


> Dermott and Nielsen are both in our top 8, and Zaitsev (we are front runners to sign him) should give us the flexibility to go BPA, we are also fairly LD heavy.




Fine, plus there's no way Toronto falls below 4 at this point so I probably should not have included them...it's still 6 teams that would be clear fits for Juolevi in the top 10.


----------



## Ace

Buffalo definitely needs LD but they also need a winger for Eichel and I'd guess would rather acquire older LD that will be ready to go already.


----------



## amack081

Excluding the Canadian teams whom are in the top 3 sweepstakes, my take is as follows:

Buffalo: Could definitely use another LHD, and could have a Finnish D pairing for next 10yrs +. Good chance Buffalo have him high on their board.

Columbus: I don't see them being interested as other teams because Murray and Werenski. Jarmo does have the Finnish routes, but I don't think he worries about nationality. Moderate interest.

Phoenix: Have fantastic forward depth and Juolevi could be a good D stepping stone. High interest

Vancouver: Have drafted FWD recently, I could see them also looking at Juolevi if deemed to be BPA (vs Chychrun and Sergachev). High interest

Montreal: For some reason, I hesitate to say they'd be highhly interested in Juolevi (possibly because Montreal has been drafting size lately, but on the other hand don't have very many top LHD in their system). Would be a good fit, as he could replace Markov in a few years. High interest

Ottawa: This one is a tough one for me as well, I think they are content with their top 4, and have Chabot who is a good prospect. Would prefer to add a C with size (Dubois perhaps?). Low/moderate interest.

Carolina (currently 11th): I don't see them having a huge need, and while Francis has changed their draft history (Rutherford preferred not to draft D in first round), I don't see the high need. Low interest.

NJ (currently 12th): NJ is in a position to take Juolevi and could be a good fit. High interest

Philly (currently 13th): Too much depth here in my books. Probably will look forward. Low interest.


----------



## Zombotron

amack081 said:


> Vancouver: Have drafted FWD recently, I could see them also looking at Juolevi if deemed to be BPA (vs Chychrun and Sergachev). High interest




--------



canucks.com poster said:


> Went to townhall this morning, managed to talk to Benning afterwords for a little bit. I asked him out of the big three dmen which one he preferred. *He liked Juolevi and rated him the highest of the threefor his smarts and calmness,* likes sergachev's upside, and really didn't complement chychrun other than his NHL ready body.




Think of that what you will. I can't speak to the poster's credibility, or whether or not this supposed conversation is an indication of what Vancouver plans on doing at the draft.


----------



## Kuhta

He is basically Tomas Kaberle.


----------



## aresknights

ps241 said:


> For those who watch Juolevi and the Knights allot I am concerned that his scoring numbers are a bit modest. He is London's top scoring D man which is good but on a team that puts up so many points I would think he would be doing a bit better. Who is the D man deployed on the #1 PP unit? Any insights as to why he has put up 36 points in 51 games would help.
> 
> I loved his game at the WJHC with the Fins.




As posted it's problem a 60/40- 50/50 split with Mete.
As well Hunter has the teams D looking to play D first. Just like with Matta don't be surprised if his PPG#s go up in the POs when the shackles come off.
He's got very good offensive instincts, good passer, knows when to jump in. Just a case of being held back a bit, for now.


----------



## AstoriaIceNinja

Columbus have Seth Jones, too. Given that they dealt their best forward in Johansen in the process, I would think reinforcing their forward pool would take priority over defense at this point with Jones/Murray/Werenski. To say their current group isn't particularly amazing would be kind. Wennberg is the one person who stands out to me, and I may have rose-colored glasses on him from his draft year hype.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

He was often the 4th link on that PuljujÃ¤rvi-Aho-Laine line in the WJCs, and he was especially good on the PP. I wouldn't be worried about his offense.


----------



## HockeyRobinson

Very smart player. Smooth smooth skater and has great two way ability. Looked better on the big ice during WJC, than he has on a consistent basis in London. 

Looks like an absolute lock to be a top four defender in the NHL in the mold of Maata or Lindholm. I question his production at the next level. Looks more like a 30-40 point player to me than an impact offensive player. 

Could go as early as #7 but almost assuredly gone by 11


----------



## HockeyHistorian

I'm fairly confident that he'll become a consistent 40+ point per season two-way D. You rarely see that kind of vision and skill he showed in the WJC as an underager. Those skills should be transferable to the pro game as well.


----------



## FamilyGuy716

Marc the Habs Fan said:


> Absolutely. Look at all the bottom 10 teams that need D's, especially LD's. At some point, one of these teams will grab Juolevi because he's damn good and fills a clear need:
> 
> *Toronto (their prospect list is all forwards at the top)
> Edmonton (goes without saying)
> *Buffalo (their LD is in dire need of help)
> Winnipeg (ditto)
> Arizona (their prospect list is all forwards at the top)
> Montreal (we need LDs for the future)
> Vancouver (also needs D for the future)




Toronto and Edmonton need RHD, not LHD


----------



## The Winter Soldier

He's a smart defender from what I have seen. If I were to use a comparable I would say he could be a Hampus Lindholm.

I am starting to lean towards him as the best D man available in this draft. He has the hockey IQ to play the game on a high level.


----------



## WTFMAN99

Mike203 said:


> Toronto and Edmonton need RHD, not LHD




Rielly plays the right side as of now so if it was a really high end defenseman like Chychrun, I think we could deal with adding a guy like him. 

We need to get a top line centre or a top pairing defenseman with this pick though that is for sure.


----------



## rt

I get scary Gormley vibes. I watched a lot of Gormley as an amateur and always thought he was the safest of prospects with a very, very high floor. I've never been more wrong about a prospect. I never could have anticipated how the increased speed of the NHL game would totally overwhelm him and that he would completely fail to adapt in any way. He seemed so smart in junior and always made the right decisions. But the NHL took away some time and space and he became utterly useless. 

How much quicker is Juolevi than Gormley? Does he move faster, think faster, and make plays faster? I didn't see that at the WJCs. I saw a very smooth, very effective player. But not necessarily a very quick one. 

Sergachev seems quicker. More raw. More mistake prone. But quicker and with more "tools". Is that fair to say? OHL fans who have seen a lot of both should be able to compare the two pretty well.


----------



## wings5

rt said:


> I get scary Gormley vibes. I watched a lot of Gormley as an amateur and always thought he was the safest of prospects with a very, very high floor. I've never been more wrong about a prospect. I never could have anticipated how the increased speed of the NHL game would totally overwhelm him and that he would completely fail to adapt in any way. He seemed so smart in junior and always made the right decisions. But the NHL took away some time and space and he became utterly useless.
> 
> How much quicker is Juolevi than Gormley? Does he move faster, think faster, and make plays faster? I didn't see that at the WJCs. I saw a very smooth, very effective player. But not necessarily a very quick one.
> 
> Sergachev seems quicker. More raw. More mistake prone. But quicker and with more "tools". Is that fair to say? OHL fans who have seen a lot of both should be able to compare the two pretty well.




Juolevi adjusted to the high speed of the WJC much better than Gormley did and as an underager. He's also being coached by the Hunter's who know what it takes to play at the next level. I think he'll be fine just like Maatta was.


----------



## JS91

Wow, that is quite surprising to me. What's the thing that makes Juolevi so highly valued? His stat line certainly doesn't look that special to me. He was very good in the WJC but I doubt he'd go as high as 4 or before the likes of Tkachuk and Dubois.


----------



## Daximus

wings5 said:


> Juolevi adjusted to the high speed of the WJC much better than Gormley did and as an underager. He's also being coached by the Hunter's who know what it takes to play at the next level. I think he'll be fine just like Maatta was.




You also have to remember that the WJC's were played on big ice.
I've watched a lot of London this year and he looks like a different player on small ice. He'll either adapt to NHL speed or it will eat him up.


----------



## Kobe Armstrong

JS91 said:


> Wow, that is quite surprising to me. What's the thing that makes Juolevi so highly valued? His stat line certainly doesn't look that special to me. He was very good in the WJC but I doubt he'd go as high as 4 or before the likes of Tkachuk and Dubois.





what's most absurd about this is that Tkachuk is currently the consensus #4.


----------



## The Winter Soldier

Timely tweet after my post on Juolevi today. I agree with Bob and his impeccable sources.


----------



## BusQuets

JS91 said:


> Wow, that is quite surprising to me. *What's the thing that makes Juolevi so highly valued?* His stat line certainly doesn't look that special to me. He was very good in the WJC but I doubt he'd go as high as 4 or before the likes of Tkachuk and Dubois.





Plain and simple? Hockey sense.


----------



## BB88

Tuomaz said:


> Plain and simple? Hockey sense.




Yeah I guess it's his IQ that they are dreaming of, and aren't worried about his non elite production which gives me to believe that there are good reasons for lack of his high end production.


----------



## Whileee

Kobe Armstrong said:


> what's most absurd about this is that Tkachuk is currently the consensus #4.




Exactly what I thought... If McKenzie is talking to scouts who have Tkachuk as the consensus #4, you wonder whether they're the ones to listen to.


----------



## Daximus

Whileee said:


> Exactly what I thought... If McKenzie is talking to scouts who have Tkachuk as the consensus #4, you wonder whether they're the ones to listen to.




Ive seen some lists that have the kid as high as #2. It makes you wonder if the only games they are watched are London Knights games...


----------



## EichHart

Risto and Olli, the great Finnish connection coming to Buffalo!


----------



## teravaineSAROS

4th overall??? ok someonr better give me a comparison to Maatta at the same age


----------



## Starry Knight

teravaineSAROS said:


> 4th overall??? ok someonr better give me a comparison to Maatta at the same age




IMO, he's better than Maatta at pretty much all facets of the game at the same age. Similar style of play, though.


----------



## docbenton

DaximusPrimus said:


> You also have to remember that the WJC's were played on big ice.
> I've watched a lot of London this year and he looks like a different player on small ice. He'll either adapt to NHL speed or it will eat him up.




He was also the best defenseman at the TPG. Whenever he's been up against strong competition he's shined. There's clearly a lot he's able to handle. 

In terms of speed, he's a smooth and speedy skater in all directions, effortlessly floats over the ice. What makes him really fast is his decision-making, already knows what he wants to do before he gets the puck and but can also make strong decisions split-second on a consistent basis. Hockey sense in a top defenseman is paramount and Juolevi's got more than his fair share of it.


----------



## Mad Brills*

I doubt he falls past 6.


----------



## ps241

Starry Knight said:


> IMO, he's better than Maatta at pretty much all facets of the game at the same age. Similar style of play, though.




Interesting 

Pretty high praise I quite liked Maatta in his draft year but was told by a guy on our board who knows more about prospects that he was safe but his ceiling wasn't high. 

Maatta was projected late 1st round in his draft year and provided amazing value. Those dam D men are enigma's at the draft.


----------



## Igor Shestyorkin

WTFMAN99 said:


> Rielly plays the right side as of now so if it was a really high end defenseman like Chychrun, I think we could deal with adding a guy like him.
> 
> We need to get a top line centre or a top pairing defenseman with this pick though that is for sure.




Top line center? What about Nylander and Marner?


----------



## Jyrki Lumme

NYR84 said:


> Top line center? What about Nylander and Marner?




Marner will almost definitely be a winger. Nylander should be a very good centre down the road though.


----------



## Igor Shestyorkin

Jyrki Lumme said:


> Marner will almost definitely be a winger. Nylander should be a very good centre down the road though.




I guess Matthews-Nylander would be an amazing 1-2 punch if both reached their potential, and then Marner could be your #1 Winger. You guys have a lot of good areas covered, even if you don't get Matthews.

Nylander - #1C
Marner - #1RW
Rielly - #1D

Also with:

Gardiner - #2/3D
JVR - #1/2LW


You need a potential Top 2 RHD, and a Potential High End Starter, but other than that you guys are looking good with core pieces.


----------



## Jyrki Lumme

NYR84 said:


> I guess Matthews-Nylander would be an amazing 1-2 punch if both reached their potential, and then Marner could be your #1 Winger. You guys have a lot of good areas covered, even if you don't get Matthews.
> 
> Nylander - #1C
> Marner - #1RW
> Rielly - #1D
> 
> Also with:
> 
> Gardiner - #2/3D
> JVR - #1/2LW
> 
> 
> You need a potential Top 2 RHD, and a Potential High End Starter, but other than that you guys are looking good with core pieces.




That's my thought. Even if Nylander is a high end player, I think he'll always be better suited as the 2C. But yes, we do really need a d-man more than anything IMO. We have a couple players who could be #3 or 4 d-men, but no top pairing guys.


----------



## FinPanda

Is Juolevi a player who will always play the most safe play and not taking unnecessary risks? That could affect his point totals, maybe. Not flashy but really smart.


----------



## Loffer

FinPanda said:


> Is Juolevi a player who will always play the most safe play and not taking unnecessary risks? That could affect his point totals, maybe. Not flashy but really smart.




It didn't look quite that at the WJC. He took initiatives con undeniable risk factor.


----------



## FinPanda

I actually meant OHL games, not WJC. I watched all the WJC games but I haven't seen any OHL games.


----------



## Pi

I don't understand how anyone can watch Chychrun and Juolevi in the OHL and say that Juolevi is better. Chychrun is getting so underrated. He's better than nearly every D prospect in the last 4-5 years with the exception of Ekblad. 

What's his weakness? How come Juolevi isn't criticized for his offense when he plays for London. They have 3 guys killing it on offense. Sarnia has one in Konecny and he came like 2 months ago. 

The team that passes over Chychrun for Juolevi will regret it big time.


----------



## amack081

FinPanda said:


> Is Juolevi a player who will always play the most safe play and not taking unnecessary risks? That could affect his point totals, maybe. Not flashy but really smart.




He makes the smart play more than he takes the risk. London want to play an up tempo game and Juolevi is able to move the puck efficiently. 

I really like him as a defensemen, however, he isn't the guy that is going to get people out of their seats.

For some reason, he reminds me a lot of Tobias Enstrom (with more size) when he first got into the league with Atlanta which projects as a good #2 but not a franchise player.


----------



## Loffer

Pi said:


> I don't understand how anyone can watch Chychrun and Juolevi in the OHL and say that Juolevi is better. Chychrun is getting so underrated. He's better than nearly every D prospect in the last 4-5 years with the exception of Ekblad.
> 
> What's his weakness? How come Juolevi isn't criticized for his offense when he plays for London. They have 3 guys killing it on offense. Sarnia has one in Konecny and he came like 2 months ago.
> 
> The team that passes over Chychrun for Juolevi will regret it big time.





Blaa blaa blaa. All this whining, huh. Why wasn't this guy even at the WJC if he is so "exceptional"?!


----------



## 93LEAFS

Loffer said:


> Blaa blaa blaa. All this whining, huh. Why wasn't this guy even at the WJC if he is so "exceptional"?!



17 year old D rarely if ever make the Canadian WJC team, Only two in the last 10 years are Ekblad and Ryan Ellis. So they passed over Pietriangelo, Subban, Doughty, Ryan Murray, Dougie Hamilton, Gudbranson and many others at the same age.


----------



## Ace

Yeah and what a Canadian d core they brought to the WJC this year. He didn't exactly have to beat out a good crop.


----------



## BB88

Pi said:


> I don't understand how anyone can watch Chychrun and Juolevi in the OHL and say that Juolevi is better. Chychrun is getting so underrated. He's better than nearly every D prospect in the last 4-5 years with the exception of Ekblad.
> 
> What's his weakness? How come Juolevi isn't criticized for his offense when he plays for London. They have 3 guys killing it on offense. Sarnia has one in Konecny and he came like 2 months ago.
> 
> *The team that passes over Chychrun for Juolevi will regret it big time*.




That's a bit too early to say.
Clearly there's something scouts see, something they are going crazy for and aren't worried about his non elite offense, and maybe he starts producing more in the playoffs like Maatta.

Let's nor forget that he set the point record in Helsinki and was robbed a point in Canada game, he had 30min games carrying the weakest defensive group out of top teams at 17y and to *Gold*, everytime there's been a big game he has stepped up, so maybe you are selling him short?

Chychrun and Juolevi play also on different teams, maybe they run their offense differently and as you said Sarnia doesn't have the depth Knights have so maybe Chychrun has more chances to produce(A la Karlsson in Ottawa).
Maybe konency is doing all the work and Chychrun gets passenger points.

Point being who knows, let's give them a bit more time before we say "_The team that passes over Chychrun for Juolevi will regret it big time"_

Edit, not to mention Juolevi is a rookie and playing his 1st year in NA rink.


----------



## Steve Kournianos

BB88 said:


> That's a bit too early to say.
> Clearly there's something scouts see, something they are going crazy for and aren't worried about his non elite offense, and maybe he starts producing more in the playoffs like Maatta.
> 
> Let's nor forget that he set the point record in Helsinki and was robbed a point in Canada game, he had 30min games carrying the weakest defensive group out of top teams at 17y and to *Gold*, everytime there's been a big game he has stepped up, so maybe you are selling him short?
> 
> Chychrun and Juolevi play also on different teams, maybe they run their offense differently and as you said Sarnia doesn't have the depth Knights have so maybe Chychrun has more chances to produce(A la Karlsson in Ottawa).
> Maybe konency is doing all the work and Chychrun gets passenger points.
> 
> Point being who knows, let's give them a bit more time before we say "_The team that passes over Chychrun for Juolevi will regret it big time"_




Remember this:


----------



## Steve Kournianos

Juolevi may turn out to be a better player than Chychrun. Anything is possible.

But you're on some serious sherm if you think he's had a better season than Chychrun.

I'm talking circa-1991 Limelight, Frankie Bones sherm.


----------



## BB88

DM23BK30 said:


> Remember this:





May I ask how what do you mean by this?


----------



## WTFMAN99

NYR84 said:


> Top line center? What about Nylander and Marner?




As someone else covered the topic really well...

I figure Marner is likely a winger.

Nylander is a good one, I would rather not put all my eggs in the basket of him being a 1C though, plus Matthews-Nylander 1-2 punch down the middle is really appealing.

Other then that though, top pairing guy to play with Rielly long term is a huge need for us. 

This draft has some really intriguing blueliners


----------



## Steve Kournianos

BB88 said:


> May I ask how what do you mean by this?




Every year, media types who don't watch/scout the players like to stir the pot and add intrigue to the draft.

While I deeply respect Mr. McKenzie, he doesn't scout amateur players and fully admits he respects the opinions of others. But tweeting the Juolevi thing without any follow up or substance is typical stir-the-pot propaganda.

Did he ask them about Juolevi as the 4th pick? Did they go to him and tell him that's how they felt? All he said there was a discussion about it. The "discussion" could have been:

NHL GM: "Hey Bob, some weirdo online has us picking Juolevi 4th overall ahead of Tkachuk. My scouts think that's bananas."

or 

Scout: "Hi Bob. You know, we talked about this Juolevi kid possibly being 4th overall, but no way that ever happens. I want to keep my job."

****....I can "discuss" Andrew Peeke being the best defenseman in the 2016 draft with all our contacts/scouts/SID's. Doesn't mean it's even close to being a possibility, let alone warrant a public conversation.

Not denying Mr. McKenzie's ridiculous contact list and I'm sure there were discussions. But it's not news because frankly, all scouts and GM's do is "discuss" possibilities.


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

DM23BK30 said:


> Every year, media types who don't watch/scout the players like to stir the pot and add intrigue to the draft.
> 
> While I deeply respect Mr. McKenzie, he doesn't scout amateur players and fully admits he respects the opinions of others. But tweeting the Juolevi thing without any follow up or substance is typical stir-the-pot propaganda.
> 
> Did he ask them about Juolevi as the 4th pick? Did they go to him and tell him that's how they felt? All he said there was a discussion about it. The "discussion" could have been:
> 
> NHL GM: "Hey Bob, some weirdo online has us picking Juolevi 4th overall ahead of Tkachuk. My scouts think that's bananas."
> 
> or
> 
> Scout: "Hi Bob. You know, we talked about this Juolevi kid possibly being 4th overall, but no way that ever happens. I want to keep my job."
> 
> ****....I can "discuss" Andrew Peeke being the best defenseman in the 2016 draft with all our contacts/scouts/SID's. Doesn't mean it's even close to being a possibility, let alone warrant a public conversation.
> 
> Not denying Mr. McKenzie's ridiculous contact list and I'm sure there were discussions. But it's not news because frankly, all scouts and GM's do is "discuss" possibilities.




Or perhaps there are some teams who have Juolevi rated ahead of Chychrun. I'd be fairly surprised if all 30 teams regarded Chyrchrun as the best dman in the draft.


----------



## Steve Kournianos

Meanwhile, in the NHL...


----------



## BB88

DM23BK30 said:


> Every year, media types who don't watch/scout the players like to stir the pot and add intrigue to the draft.
> 
> While I deeply respect Mr. McKenzie, he doesn't scout amateur players and fully admits he respects the opinions of others. But tweeting the Juolevi thing without any follow up or substance is typical stir-the-pot propaganda.
> 
> Did he ask them about Juolevi as the 4th pick? Did they go to him and tell him that's how they felt? All he said there was a discussion about it. The "discussion" could have been:
> 
> NHL GM: "Hey Bob, some weirdo online has us picking Juolevi 4th overall ahead of Tkachuk. My scouts think that's bananas."
> 
> or
> 
> Scout: "Hi Bob. You know, we talked about this Juolevi kid possibly being 4th overall, but no way that ever happens. I want to keep my job."
> 
> ****....I can "discuss" Andrew Peeke being the best defenseman in the 2016 draft with all our contacts/scouts/SID's. Doesn't mean it's even close to being a possibility, let alone warrant a public conversation.
> 
> Not denying Mr. McKenzie's ridiculous contact list and I'm sure there were discussions. But it's not news because frankly, all scouts and GM's do is "discuss" possibilities.




I listen to what Bob says, respect the hell out of it and take his word over the guys you are linking here, he also doesn't just ask by 1 person and if you look at lists it feels like they are 50/50 on Juolevi vs Chychrun these days.

I personnally don't care which one goes 1st, I just don't get the comment that poster made.
To me Juolevis development is much more important than seeing him go 4th, I just hope he goes to a team with good management and of course No to Montreal 

edit, Bob also tweeted other draft tweets at the same time, not just the Juolevi tweet.


----------



## Steve Kournianos

UsernameWasTaken said:


> Or perhaps there are some teams who have Juolevi rated ahead of Chychrun. I'd be fairly surprised if all 30 teams regarded Chyrchrun as the best dman in the draft.




It's not all 30 teams that matter. It's the first 8-12 who are drafting. Those teams want stars to justify the horrid season. The better teams would be just fine with a role player or an occasional contributor.

It was an open-ended tweet without much substance or a follow-up, which sadly is par for the course when its draft related and comes from the mainstream media.

You know what would have been a story:

"Talked to six lottery-team GMs, and four are leaning towards Juolevi as the best dman in the draft"


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

DM23BK30 said:


> Meanwhile, in the NHL...





I don't understand what your point is. All you can say is that Carolina ranked Hanifin ahead of Provorov. 



DM23BK30 said:


> It's not all 30 teams that matter. It's the first 8-12 who are drafting. Those teams want stars to justify the horrid season. The better teams would be just fine with a role player or an occasional contributor.
> 
> It was an open-ended tweet without much substance or a follow-up, which sadly is par for the course when its draft related and comes from the mainstream media.
> 
> You know what would have been a story:
> 
> "Talked to six lottery-team GMs, and four are leaning towards Juolevi as the best dman in the draft"




Why is Juolevi a "role player" or an "occasional contributor"? Because you say so? Chychrun is no guarantee to be a star, nor is he a guarantee to be a better player than Juolevi (or Sergachev for that matter). It's really not difficult to believe there would be a variety of opinions on who the best dman in the draft is.


----------



## Steve Kournianos

BB88 said:


> I listen to what Bob says, respect the hell out of it and take his word over the guys you are linking here, he also doesn't just ask by 1 person and if you look at lists it feels like they are 50/50 on Juolevi vs Chychrun these days.
> 
> I personnally don't care which one goes 1st, I just don't get the comment that poster made.
> To me Juolevis development is much more important than seeing him go 4th, I just hope he goes to a team with good management and of course No to Montreal
> 
> edit, Bob also tweeted other draft tweets at the same time, not just the Juolevi tweet.





My only criticism of Juolevi is I just don't see star potential. I see a very solid top-pairing guy in the mold of Anton Stralman or Alex Pietrangelo. He does so many things well and does a few at an elite level, but there's something missing. I understood the Provorov/Hanifin duel waaaaay more than Juolevi/Chychrun. I just don't see it as a close race.

If scouts believe Chychrun is more of a risk, they better be right, because not only are you passing on the guy everybody felt was a star in the making, but also passing up on the forwards with star potential.

In our discussions about Juolevi, he's simply the safer pick. Don't know if the team picking 4th OA wants that.


----------



## Steve Kournianos

UsernameWasTaken said:


> I don't understand what your point is. All you can say is that Carolina ranked Hanifin ahead of Provorov.






> Why is Juolevi a "role player" or an "occasional contributor"? Because you say so? Chychrun is no guarantee to be a star, nor is he a guarantee to be a better player than Juolevi (or Sergachev for that matter). It's really not difficult to believe there would be a variety of opinions on who the best dman in the draft is.




Don't disagree at all. But I think you missed my point.

I wasn't calling Juolevi a role player. I said it means more when lottery-team scouts and GMs favor one kid over another because they have way more at stake. 

I personally don't care what Stan Bowman or Steve Yzerman think about the top prospects because they have very little at stake. At the end of the day, they're still a powerhouse.

Therefore, I take McKenzie's tweet (or the ones I posted) with heaping of salt because it literally could mean a zillion things.

The fans deserve more than "Scouts might, maybe, could like this kid better..OK bye".


----------



## BB88

DM23BK30 said:


> My only criticism of Juolevi is I just don't see star potential. I see a very solid top-pairing guy in the mold of Anton Stralman or Alex Pietrangelo. He does so many things well and does a few at an elite level, but there's something missing. I understood the Provorov/Hanifin duel waaaaay more than Juolevi/Chychrun. I just don't see it as a close race.
> 
> If scouts believe Chychrun is more of a risk, they better be right, because not only are you passing on the guy everybody felt was a star in the making, but also passing up on the forwards with star potential.
> 
> In our discussions about Juolevi, he's simply the safer pick. Don't know if the team picking 4th OA wants that.




If Juolevi turns into Pietrangelo I'd go crazy, that would be fantastic.

Juolevi's passing/IQ are elite, and the way he can escape the D-zone is very wanted in this days NHL same as high IQ, and could see him be a great fit in Toronto and what they are building or in Buffalo with RR.

One could make a case for Juolevi being the best D-player in Helsinki and one of the best players in Helsinki at 17y, you can say the forward group was fantastic which is was but at the same time the defense was an absolute nightmare, so painfull to watch outside of Juolevi so his support group was very weak and he played 30min games and in every situation with limited talent around him on the blueline, he was a key reason for us Finns winning the gold.

He's a rookie in the OHL, his 1st year in smaller rink, and he is the weakest of the big 3 D-prospects so that should just lead to expect him having ton of room to impore/develop.


----------



## Loffer

Remember as well this whining by Pierre McGuire:


----------



## 1972

Almost certain Buffalo would be selecting him if available outside the top 4.


----------



## traffic cone

DM23BK30 said:


> My only criticism of Juolevi is I just don't see star potential. I see a very solid top-pairing guy in the mold of Anton Stralman or Alex Pietrangelo. He does so many things well and does a few at an elite level, but there's something missing. I understood the Provorov/Hanifin duel waaaaay more than Juolevi/Chychrun. I just don't see it as a close race.
> 
> If scouts believe Chychrun is more of a risk, they better be right, because not only are you passing on the guy everybody felt was a star in the making, but also passing up on the forwards with star potential.
> 
> In our discussions about Juolevi, he's simply the safer pick. Don't know if the team picking 4th OA wants that.



I think you're confusing 'potential' with 'flashiness'.

See: Nick Lidstrom.


----------



## 199991

Loffer said:


> Remember as well this whining by Pierre McGuire:





I remember having the same reaction as Pierre McGuire at the time. But things happen in a draft and I'm pretty sure Tallon doesn't regret his choice right now.
So even if Chychrun seems to be the clear consensus #1 D in the draft, one team might very well have Juolevi ahead of him and he could certainly develop better or as good as Chychrun in a couple of years.


----------



## Rielly4

Personally I have Juolevi ranked as the top D in this draft...Just think hes a much smarter dman and has a higher IQ. 

And hes actually taller than Chychrun...Obviously not as physical but i just think he will help your team more in the NHL and will have a better time adjusting to the fast pace of the NHL.


----------



## The Winter Soldier

This is not meant to be hyperbolic, but If I were picking 4th overall right now. I would pick Juolevi. I love his smarts, poise, and his willingness to sacrifice the body to make a play. He is a very cerebral player that just oozes quality.


----------



## Coaches Coroner

I'm not 100% sure if the offensive ability is elite or high end enough to run the offense from the backend at the next level, but his skating is very smooth and very good, positioning is very good, passing is excellent. Only concerns are whether he's going to be a high offensive producer and his less than great physical play/body checking, but doesn't make many mistakes. I still think Chychrun may have a slightly higher ceiling, but Juoelvi has closed the gap considerably.


----------



## The Winter Soldier

Torgo said:


> *I'm not 100% sure if the offensive ability is elite* or high end enough to run the offense from the backend at the next level, but his skating is very smooth and very good, positioning is very good, passing is excellent. Only concerns are whether he's going to be a high offensive producer and his less than great physical play/body checking, but doesn't make many mistakes. I still think Chychrun may have a slightly higher ceiling, but Juoelvi has closed the gap considerably.




That's an interesting discussion point. All I would expect from an elite D man today is that they can play tough mins, in all situations, and is good all zones. A 45 - 50 point player a year, and I would be very happy.

Doughty and Keith had 46 and 45 points last year. This year they 44 and 42 points a piece.

I think offence is important for accessing a prospective D man's ceiling. But it is certainly only one layer of criteria. 

Juolevi has a class to his game in the vein that Keith and Doughty have. I am not saying he is going to be as good as the 2 best D men in the game today. But he has that look as a D man that if you simply measure him in points. You probably will not appreciate him.

I don't think he got a point tonight, but I was very impressed. Passed the eye test easily.


----------



## Maplebeasts

Torgo said:


> I'm not 100% sure if the offensive ability is elite or high end enough to run the offense from the backend at the next level, but his skating is very smooth and very good, positioning is very good, passing is excellent. Only concerns are whether he's going to be a high offensive producer and his less than great physical play/body checking, but doesn't make many mistakes. I still think Chychrun may have a slightly higher ceiling, but Juoelvi has closed the gap considerably.




I agree on this front. Juolevi is a smart dman no doubt, but Sergachev and Chychrun are both good defensively and might have more to offer on the attacking side of the puck. I personally rate Juolevi lower than both, around #8 on my list right now.


----------



## BB88

Torgo said:


> I'm not 100% sure if the offensive ability is elite or high end enough to run the offense from the backend at the next level, but his skating is very smooth and very good, positioning is very good, passing is excellent. Only concerns are whether he's going to be a high offensive producer and his less than great physical play/body checking, but doesn't make many mistakes. I still think Chychrun may have a slightly higher ceiling, but Juoelvi has closed the gap considerably.




If Juolevis transition game can be elite in the NHL that would do the trick, transition that will help the team win games but necessary doesn't get Juolevi on score sheet.

Watching the Bruins this year I've learned to appreciate that skill so much, and atleast in Helsinki Juolevi had that ability, turn the play around in a second.
Game is much more than just points, especially for a D-player, would be great if he could remind Josi in the NHL.


----------



## HockeyHistorian

In my opinion Juolevi's biggest assets are his smarts and vision. In the WJC he really shined on the PP and made quick and smart plays which should work in the NHL as well. He seems to lack strength and explosiveness, but that's something that's easy to work on.


----------



## Virtanen2Horvat

Well if the Canucks stick around their position I know they are getting this kid. I hope we get one of Juolevi or Chychurun


----------



## kihei

WTFMAN99 said:


> This draft has some really intriguing blueliners



What's your take on the Juolevi/Chychrun debate?


----------



## Steve Kournianos

Chychrun plays 31-33 mins a game. He plays every other shift. It's rare for him to sit out two shifts in a row. Furthermore, Sarnia is completely devoid of reliable puck movers. Their defense corps is weak. And the forwards either don't backcheck or are turnover machines (or both). 

In our viewings, it's rare for Juolevi to play extended shifts simply because London is that good. As good and clean a game he plays, he's not the team leader or go-to guy for anything, as he's simply a high-profile piece on a team of a half-dozen high-profile pieces. 

Sarnia might seem like they have big names, but everything begins and ends with Chychrun. His recovery time as an amateur is right up there with the greats - Leetch, Bourque, Pronger, Doughty, Chelios - meaning he's consistent shift to shift regardless of how much rest time he has in between. Hanifin's the same way. It's a rare and important trait.

To me, Juolevi hasn't been put through enough of a ringer in his draft year to call him the best. Regardless of whether it's his doing or not, he's playing with a 3-0 lead in the first period more than haalf the time. And for all the talk about his WJC if you analyze the film, he didn't play well at all in his own end when the scores were close and late.

I'm not dinging Juolevi for playing on a good team. It's not his fault. But his overall grade is somewhat incomplete simply because there's that "unknown" factor about how he'll perform on a bad team with bad goaltending and careless forwards. This might add years to his development, whereas Chychrun is somewhat more experienced to handle the rigors and tribulations of playing for a lottery team. 

And if you review film on Chychrun, you'll see the bulk of his mistakes come at the end of shifts which are generally extended and longer than Juolevi's.


----------



## lanky

Thanks


----------



## ps241

Hell of a nice report.


----------



## Loffer

No matter how you slice it, Juolevi still was the Dman of the WJC statswise and just happened to took home da gold Also. This Chychrun something was left out from Team Canada cuz "we don't do it" -argument ("unless it's some serious ekblad"). Yet, Canada's D core was anything but impressive. 

Go figure. 
-----------
Talk is cheap. Gimme even some corsi diipa daapa dii.


----------



## tinozz

Loffer said:


> No matter how you slice it, Juolevi still was the Dman of the WJC statswise and just happened to took home da gold Also. This Chychrun something was left out from Team Canada cuz "we don't do it" -argument ("unless it's some serious ekblad"). Yet, Canada's D core was anything but impressive.
> 
> Go figure.
> -----------
> Talk is cheap. Gimme even some corsi diipa daapa dii.





THIS!!


----------



## maroon 6

Tyler Seguin didn't make team Canada. 

Just this season Kyle Connor didn't make team USA.


----------



## Conspiracy Theorist

I see Ristolainen and Sami Salo in him.


----------



## Teukka

Karjala takaisin said:


> I see Ristolainen and Sami Salo in him.



That makes one of you, then


----------



## Ace

maroon 6 said:


> Tyler Seguin didn't make team Canada.
> 
> Just this season Kyle Connor didn't make team USA.




Good players were in their place. Canada had a terrible tournament costing D. That he couldn't crack.


----------



## Goose of Reason

Ace said:


> Good players were in their place. Canada had a terrible tournament costing D. That he couldn't crack.




He wasn't selected by what might be the worst coaching staff I've ever seen at the helm of Team Canada at the world juniors. I think Steve Spott might have been better than Lowry and Spott was horrible. Chychrun should've been on that team.


----------



## Daximus

Goose of Reason said:


> He wasn't selected by what might be the worst coaching staff I've ever seen at the helm of Team Canada at the world juniors. I think Steve Spott might have been better than Lowry and Spott was horrible. Chychrun should've been on that team.




Yeah it was actually pretty dumb he was left off. I had him pegged for a spot but it is rare they take a defencemen his age. Even so they should have.


----------



## BB88

DM23BK30 said:


> Chychrun plays 31-33 mins a game. He plays every other shift. It's rare for him to sit out two shifts in a row. Furthermore, Sarnia is completely devoid of reliable puck movers. Their defense corps is weak. And the forwards either don't backcheck or are turnover machines (or both).
> 
> In our viewings, it's rare for Juolevi to play extended shifts simply because London is that good. As good and clean a game he plays, he's not the team leader or go-to guy for anything, as he's simply a high-profile piece on a team of a half-dozen high-profile pieces.
> 
> Sarnia might seem like they have big names, but everything begins and ends with Chychrun. His recovery time as an amateur is right up there with the greats - Leetch, Bourque, Pronger, Doughty, Chelios - meaning he's consistent shift to shift regardless of how much rest time he has in between. Hanifin's the same way. It's a rare and important trait.
> 
> To me, Juolevi hasn't been put through enough of a ringer in his draft year to call him the best. Regardless of whether it's his doing or not, he's playing with a 3-0 lead in the first period more than haalf the time. And for all the talk about his WJC if you analyze the film, he didn't play well at all in his own end when the scores were close and late.
> 
> I'm not dinging Juolevi for playing on a good team. It's not his fault. But his overall grade is somewhat incomplete simply because there's that "unknown" factor about how he'll perform on a bad team with bad goaltending and careless forwards. This might add years to his development, whereas Chychrun is somewhat more experienced to handle the rigors and tribulations of playing for a lottery team.
> 
> And if you review film on Chychrun, you'll see the bulk of his mistakes come at the end of shifts which are generally extended and longer than Juolevi's.




You definitely aren't the biggest fan of Juolevi and somehow missed the WJC's this year.
He's also a rookie in OHL and his 1st year in NA ice.


----------



## FinPanda

BB88 said:


> You definitely aren't the biggest fan of Juolevi and somehow missed the WJC's this year.
> He's also a rookie in OHL and his 1st year in NA ice.



WJC's doesn't matter much at this point and the tournament was played on the big ice. Just please at once stop bringing the WJC's up all the time.


----------



## BB88

FinPanda said:


> WJC's doesn't matter much at this point and the tournament was played on the big ice. Just please at once stop bringing the WJC's up all the time.




They matter in the way that he has "never been tested".


----------



## The Winter Soldier

I can see Juolevi being a top pairing D man that eats a tonne of mins while playing in all situations of the game. I don't know what adjective best suits him yet. But his game has quality and class to it. Given a choice of Tkachuk or Chychrun. It is close. Playoffs will decide who is #4 IMO.


----------



## Steve Kournianos

BB88 said:


> You definitely aren't the biggest fan of Juolevi and somehow missed the WJC's this year.
> He's also a rookie in OHL and his 1st year in NA ice.




http://www.thedraftanalyst.com/2016-wjc-headquarters/

The WJC's were two weeks and we covered every second of it. Historically, it's a marginal barometer of NHL upside.

It's not that we're not his "biggest fan". He's ranked eighth on our latest draft rankings, up three spots from 11th in February.

He's simply not as complete a defender as Chychrun. At least in our view.


----------



## Steve Kournianos

BB88 said:


> They matter in the way that he has "never been tested".




He played on a loaded team against other loaded teams. He's yet to play on a bad or average team against loaded teams, which is my point.


----------



## BB88

DM23BK30 said:


> He played on a loaded team against other loaded teams. He's yet to play on a bad or average team against loaded teams, which is my point.




He played 30 mins against Canadas best forwards with a weak D-group, his partner won't see NHL, you just look at the forward group and forget the defensive group was the worst of out of the top teams.
How is that not being tested, he carried that defensive group to gold, I could say Chychrun hasn't been tested like that.

You see more and more tweets saying x prefers Juolevi over Chychrun/they are in the same tier or posters who see them play.


----------



## Icebreakers

BB88 said:


> He played 30 mins against Canadas best forwards with a weak D-group, his partner won't see NHL, you just look at the forward group and forget the defensive group was the worst of out of the top teams.
> How is that not being tested, he carried that defensive group to gold, I could say Chychrun hasn't been tested like that.
> 
> You see more and more tweets saying x prefers Juolevi over Chychrun/they are in the same tier or posters who see them play.




You mean that Canadian team that won ONCE in regulation in the group stages with an almost even goal differential?Canada scored one ****ing goal vs Switzerland bro. Yeah no Finlands team >>>Canada. Chychrun gets tested every single game he plays. Lets not talk about the WJC. Its such an overrated tournament. If you need to use WJC to boost a player , then he probably isnt doing enough in his own league.


----------



## BB88

Icebreakers said:


> You mean that Canadian team that won ONCE in regulation in the group stages with an almost even goal differential?Canada scored one ****ing goal vs Switzerland bro. Yeah no Finlands team >>>Canada. Chychrun gets tested every single game he plays. Lets not talk about the WJC. Its such an overrated tournament. If you need to use WJC to boost a player , then he probably isnt doing enough in his own league.




It's fun how Strome+Marner+Barzal and others are now weak, and I just pointed out when a poster said hasn't been tested at all and gifted to play on good teams, that defense wasn't anything special and he played more than 1 game in Helsinki.

I also don't know why having fantastic tournaments are used against prospects when those weren't by luck.

And once more, more and more you see these days Juolevi being discussed in the same tier with Chychrun, some prefering Juolevi and some prefering Chychrun, which also is a hint that he isn't having a bad season in the OHL and isn't just living on the WJC tournament, and Chychrun isn't a rookie in the OHL.


----------



## docbenton

Forget the stats like how many points he had at the WJC, when you look at Juolevi you see he's got elite level hockey sense both in quality and speed of decision-making. Sam Reinhart went 2nd overall for that and not much else. It's a big deal esp. for a D at the next level, where the pace is faster and the pressure more furious. The best players in junior aren't always the best players in the NHL.

However I thought he was also the best D at the TPG. Every time he's been tested he's been the best. We'll see what happens in the OHL playoffs.


----------



## Loffer

docbenton said:


> Forget the stats like how many points he had at the WJC, when you look at Juolevi you see he's got elite level hockey sense both in quality and speed of decision-making. Sam Reinhart went 2nd overall for that and not much else. It's a big deal esp. for a D at the next level, where the pace is faster and the pressure more furious. The best players in junior aren't always the best players in the NHL.
> 
> However I thought he was also the best D at the TPG. Every time he's been tested he's been the best. We'll see what happens in the OHL playoffs.





Nice to read some unbiased common sense analysis here also. It's hockey sense or whatever you call that puts Juolevi in the true elite class.


----------



## BB88

docbenton said:


> Forget the stats like how many points he had at the WJC, when you look at Juolevi you see he's got elite level hockey sense both in quality and speed of decision-making. Sam Reinhart went 2nd overall for that and not much else. It's a big deal esp. for a D at the next level, where the pace is faster and the pressure more furious. The best players in junior aren't always the best players in the NHL.
> 
> However I thought he was also the best D at the TPG. Every time he's been tested he's been the best. We'll see what happens in the OHL playoffs.




Agree, if you can skate and have elite IQ you are pretty wanted.
I'm a big fan of Reinharts game.

Juolevi also turns 18y in May like Pulju and he's got the most room to develop physically(I'd bet) out of the top3 D-prospects and he plays for the Knights and gets to develop there.

edit,


----------



## 1972

Mark Edward Vlasic type impact in the NHL?


----------



## rt

BB88 said:


> Agree, if you can skate and have elite IQ you are pretty wanted.
> I'm a big fan of Reinharts game.
> 
> Juolevi also turns 18y in May like Pulju and he's got the most room to develop physically(I'd bet) out of the top3 D-prospects and he plays for the Knights and gets to develop there.
> 
> edit,





This is fantastic news for me as a Coyotes fan. I really, really hope Juolevi goes earlier and leaves Chychrun for us!


----------



## trick9

Juolevi-Chychrun is the Ristolainen-Nurse -debate all over again. Chychrun has the better tools (Nurse) but Juolevi is easily the smarter player just like Ristolainen was. Obviously the physical monster has better ceiling so he might get drafted first but the team drafting the smarter guy is going to come out as a winner from all of this. I think Juolevi has much more room to grow and improve.


----------



## canwincup

trick9 said:


> Juolevi-Chychrun is the Ristolainen-Nurse -debate all over again. Chychrun has the better tools (Nurse) but Juolevi is easily the smarter player just like Ristolainen was. Obviously the physical monster has better ceiling so he might get drafted first but the team drafting the smarter guy is going to come out as a winner from all of this. I think Juolevi has much more room to grow and improve.




Chychrun could also turn out like Ekblad, that's why you take the chance.


----------



## JJTT

canwincup said:


> Chychrun could also turn out like Ekblad, that's why you take the chance.




Or Cam Barker


----------



## teravaineSAROS

trick9 said:


> Juolevi-Chychrun is the Ristolainen-Nurse -debate all over again. Chychrun has the better tools (Nurse) but Juolevi is easily the smarter player just like Ristolainen was. Obviously the physical monster has better ceiling so he might get drafted first but the team drafting the smarter guy is going to come out as a winner from all of this. I think Juolevi has much more room to grow and improve.




It's different, you're just forcing an analogy. Ristolainen is a beast physically aswell so it wasn't as simplified as you make it sound. Per usual the smarter guy has the higher ceiling and has more physique to grow into than someone who's already great physically but lacks the NHL-smarts.

example from another thread: 


Brodeur said:


> Dean Lombardi mentioned this sort of thing as one of the reasons they opted for Drew Doughty over Zach Bogosian. Both guys were dominant in the OHL during their draft years and Lombardi admitted that Bogosian's combine was much more impressive than Doughty's. But they did like Doughty and reasoned that if he could dominate while being out of shape that he could get better under an NHL training regimen.




By your logic Sean Day should've still been a top 10 pick (atleast by the start of the season).

Either way Ristolainen was always more than big enough for the NHL


----------



## canwincup

JJTT said:


> Or Cam Barker




I like Juolevi but I think he turns into a really good number 2 like Dan Hamhuis was (with a little more offense) Chychrun has the potential to be a top 10 defensman.


----------



## LastWordArmy

Our scouting report

http://lastwordonsports.com/2016/04/06/olli-juolevi-scouting-report-2016-nhl-draft-7/


----------



## BusQuets

Rich-mans Jokipakka?


----------



## ChicagoBullsFan

What are the odds for Finland to get Juolevi in U18 WJC's.?
MTV sport hockey published an article of possible additions for Finland's U18 WJC team and Juolevi belongs those players what Finland waits their tournament roster.


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

FinnHockeyFan said:


> What are the odds for Finland to get Juolevi in U18 WJC's.?
> MTV sport hockey published an article of possible additions for Finland's U18 WJC team and Juolevi belongs those players what Finland waits their tournament roster.




Very unlikely. The Knights (his junior team) are currently in the playoffs. Even if the Knights were swept (which I doubt they will be), then the last game would be April 14 (which is the same day U18 starts) - and I think it's unlikely he would immediately leave for ND.


----------



## skyo

The more you hear about Juolevi, the more you like this dman.



> Arguably the WJCâ€™s top defenseman, it was a coming out party for Juolevi earlier this month. His offensive abilities are well-known, but few realized just how complete a defenseman Juolevi already is. Reads the play well, makes great passes, and knows when to join the rush. Makes a good first pass, and has solid positioning in the defensive zone.
> 
> â€œA competitive spark-plug, Olli Juolevi is a complete, all-around defenceman that can hem the opposition in their own end or make things difficult for the opposition at home; either way, he puts the pressure on and lays it on thick. A strong and balanced skater, he can rush the puck through the neutral zone with ease or backcheck with haste. Uses his size to his advantage, but knows his physical limits and plays within them. Instead of playing overly physical, he makes his presence felt by exhibiting his high-end playmaking ability and puck possession play. All-in-all, a well-rounded blueliner who thrives under pressure and can be trusted in all situations.â€ [Curtis Joe]
> 
> â€œVery sturdily built D-man that leans into his hits, competes hard, and possesses elite-level vision and hockey sense. Looks stronger game-by-game and adapts very quickly to his surroundings and situations. Scouts liken Olli Juolevi to Olli Maatta of the Pittsburgh Penguins. Both are fluid skaters and have deep-rooted understandings of their position. Both have tremendous skill and talent, and both will go far in their careers.â€ [Elite Prospects]
> 
> http://toomanymenonthesite.com/2016/04/17/2016-nhl-mock-draft-4-0-rounds-1-7/2/


----------



## HockeyHistorian

skyo said:


> The more you hear about Juolevi, the more you like this dman.




â€œVery sturdily built D-man that leans into his hits". This is the part I don't agree with. He is quite lanky and I have never seem him lean into a hit. Nonetheless a great prospect.


----------



## ps241

skyo said:


> The more you hear about Juolevi, the more you like this dman.




Ok to the "London fans" who have seen both play over large sample sizes how does Juolevi compare to Maatta in their draft years?


----------



## traffic cone

"Both are *fluid skaters* and have deep-rooted understandings of their position."

That's the part I didn't quite understand. I thought Maatta's skating was his main weakness currently.


----------



## DatDude44

juolevi to buffalo PLEAASSSEEE


----------



## Huokaus

ps241 said:


> Ok to the "London fans" who have seen both play over large sample sizes how does Juolevi compare to Maatta in their draft years?




Yeah, I'd love to hear an educated opinion too. 
From everything I've read he does sound quite MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤-ish, and I've heard the comparison being thrown around semi-often. Is it because they're both Finnish defensemen that play(ed) in the OHL in their draft year, or are they really that similar stylistically?


----------



## Coaches Coroner

HockeyHistorian said:


> â€œVery sturdily built D-man that leans into his hits". This is the part I don't agree with. He is quite lanky and I have never seem him lean into a hit. Nonetheless a great prospect.




Ya, if anything the physical/hitting side is the main "weak" part of his game. I find he's not particularly strong yet either, but that's probably the easiest thing a player (especially a tall one) can improve on.


----------



## canuckfan75

If the Canucks pick # 6 he gone. 

They may go for him at #4 and #5


----------



## stewpac

I'm a knights fan and I think Juolevi is average at best. His intelligence is way over blown as is his passing ability. He makes as many bone headed plays as any defenseman on the team. He's been replace on the power play with bouchard, who brings more offense and a bigger shot. I would be very happy to see a leafs rival draft him.


----------



## Pi

stewpac said:


> I'm a knights fan and I think Juolevi is average at best. His intelligence is way over blown as is his passing ability. He makes as many bone headed plays as any defenseman on the team. He's been replace on the power play with bouchard, who brings more offense and a bigger shot. I would be very happy to see a leafs rival draft him.




Agreed. I don't like Juolevi at all. Overhyped because of a few WJC games on a good team. Anyone expecting him to be a top pairing D prospect is going to regret the pick unless he somehow becomes a lot better next year.


----------



## ChicagoBullsFan

Pi said:


> Agreed. I don't like Juolevi at all. Overhyped because of a few WJC games on a good team. Anyone expecting him to be a top pairing D prospect is going to regret the pick unless he somehow becomes a lot better next year.




Is Juolevi eligible to play in OHL next year if he doesn't make NHL team?
Example Julius Honka assigned to Texas Stars when he didn't make Dallas Stars NHL roster in autumn 2014.


----------



## skyo

trick9 said:


> Juolevi-Chychrun is the Ristolainen-Nurse -debate all over again. Chychrun has the better tools (Nurse) but Juolevi is easily the smarter player just like Ristolainen was. Obviously the physical monster has better ceiling so he might get drafted first but the team drafting the smarter guy is going to come out as a winner from all of this. I think Juolevi has much more room to grow and improve.




Yeah Chychrun vs Juolevi is one of the toughest to gauge on whose going to have the better NHL career.


----------



## Atomos2

stewpac said:


> I'm a knights fan and I think Juolevi is average at best. *His intelligence is way over blown as is his passing ability. He makes as many bone headed plays as any defenseman on the team.* He's been replace on the power play with bouchard, who brings more offense and a bigger shot. I would be very happy to see a leafs rival draft him.




I've repeated this multiple times on these board and people just brush it off because he's ranked as the 2nd best dman. I watched him this whole year too and its exactly as you said. It says a lot that a rookie like Bouchard can come in and replace him on the leagues top pp unit. Honestly, I'd be shocked if he becomes anything more than a 3/4 dman, leaning closer to four at the nhl level.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Atomos2 said:


> I've repeated this multiple times on these board and people just brush it off because he's ranked as the 2nd best dman. I watched him this whole year too and its exactly as you said. It says a lot that a rookie like Bouchard can come in and replace him on the leagues top pp unit. Honestly, I'd be shocked if he becomes anything more than a 3/4 dman, leaning closer to four at the nhl level.




Agreed. Pretty unremarkable year for dmen in this year's draft IMO.


----------



## Gsus

So is this years draft so bad that a TOP 10 pick is average at best? Either there is big underestimating of him or I've got it all wrong and thought he was gonna be a good player. Im confused.


----------



## snipes

TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> Agreed. Pretty unremarkable year for dmen in this year's draft IMO.




Agreed, Sergachev might be the best of the top 3 D in this draft.

This might be a weird draft year where a Dman taken in the 2nd/3rd round ends up the best Dman in the draft.


----------



## Ezpz

snipes said:


> Agreed, Sergachev might be the best of the top 3 D in this draft.
> 
> This might be a weird draft year where a Dman taken in the 2nd/3rd round ends up the best Dman in the draft.




That happens nearly every year though. Very few hyped first round dmen pan out.


----------



## snipes

Ezpz said:


> That happens nearly every year though. Very few hyped first round dmen pan out.




Doughty, OEL, Hedman, Ekblad in recent years are Franchise D.

But yeah, there will always be the Cam Baker and Jack Johnson's.


----------



## covfefe

snipes said:


> Agreed, Sergachev might be the best of the top 3 D in this draft.
> 
> This might be a weird draft year where a Dman taken in the 2nd/3rd round ends up the best Dman in the draft.




It's really not weird to see top D coming from outside of the 1st in today's NHL. 

Subban (2nd), Letang (3rd), Josi (2nd), Klingberg (5th), Giordano (undrafted), Weber (2nd), Keith (2nd), Stralman (7th), the list goes on. D are a mystery when it comes to the draft.


----------



## snipes

foxygen said:


> It's really not weird to see top D coming from outside of the 1st in today's NHL.
> 
> Subban (2nd), Letang (3rd), Josi (2nd), Klingberg (5th), Giordano (undrafted), Weber (2nd), Keith (2nd), Stralman (7th), the list goes on. D are a mystery when it comes to the draft.




Parayko and Ghost you could add to that list too. I wonder why it's such a crapshoot with D.


----------



## EverybodyLovesRay

People only look at his points in WJC, there were plenty of bonehead plays at that tournament too, very overrated prospect. No homerism here.


----------



## docbenton

People are maybe expecting too much from a 17 yo...yes even he'll make mistakes but he's still a top prospect with plenty of upside and the closest thing to a perfect defenseman in this draft. People really like Fabbro at the U18s, Juolevi is a similar kind of player, just better in every respect expect maybe shot.


----------



## Spade

snipes said:


> Parayko and Ghost you could add to that list too. I wonder why it's such a crapshoot with D.




It's easy to tell which forwards will be producers, they have the puck in the offensive zone and generally the guys with skill are the ones who consistently make great plays with the puck.

A defenseman's primary job is to play defense, which generally involves not actually having the puck. So it's harder to tell which players are legitimately smart enough with their positioning, decision-making and understanding of the game to be able to adapt to the NHL game (which is a completely different animal in terms of puck pressure and speed from the forwards) and which players are just benefiting from good coaching or physical talent. The position in general requires a lot more hockey sense and processing ability than a forward needs, and such intangible skills are a lot harder to accurately project than puck skills, shot skills, and passing skills, which you can physically see.

Plus, the NHL is comprised of the forwards who have been the best or most talented players in their respective teams and leagues since childhood, so just because a defenseman is good in juniors doesn't mean that he will be able to translate to the NHL. There are no weak links in the NHL anymore, even the worst forwards are taught to put pressure on defensemen all the time, so as a defenseman your decision-making has to be pinpoint at all times or else you're leaking goals.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Great read to creep in and get in close, then snipe a wrister high. Strong game from him to get his 3rd point of the night.


----------



## Wats

snipes said:


> Doughty, OEL, Hedman, Ekblad in recent years are Franchise D.
> 
> But yeah, there will always be the Cam Baker and Jack Johnson's.




14 defensemen taken in top 5 picks on D from 2005-2012, quite a few are haven't become more than 2nd pairing at best guys.

Jack Johnson: 5th 2005
Thomas Hickey: 4th 2007
Zach Bogosian: 3rd 2008
Luke Schenn: 5th 2008
Erik Gudbranson: 3rd 2010
Adam Larsson: 4th 2011
Griffin Reinhart: 4th 2012


----------



## 93LEAFS

Watsatheo said:


> 14 defensemen taken in top 5 picks on D from 2005-2012, quite a few are haven't become more than 2nd pairing at best guys.
> 
> Jack Johnson: 5th 2005
> Thomas Hickey: 4th 2007
> Zach Bogosian: 3rd 2008
> *Luke Schenn*: 5th 2008
> *Erik Gudbranson*: 3rd 2010
> Adam Larsson: 4th 2011
> *Griffin Reinhart*: 4th 2012



See a recurring trend here, don't draft defensive D that high, especially ones who aren't high end skaters. Hickey was a reach at the time. Bogosian had everything that could go wrong, go wrong. His career is probably much better if he was handled like Pietrangelo and not Doughty, on top of the injury problems. Adam Larsson may not put up top pairing offensive numbers, but he is a high end shut down D, that every team would love to have.


----------



## 613Leafer

Watsatheo said:


> 14 defensemen taken in top 5 picks on D from 2005-2012, quite a few are haven't become more than 2nd pairing at best guys.
> 
> Jack Johnson: 5th 2005
> Thomas Hickey: 4th 2007
> Zach Bogosian: 3rd 2008
> Luke Schenn: 5th 2008
> Erik Gudbranson: 3rd 2010
> Adam Larsson: 4th 2011
> Griffin Reinhart: 4th 2012






93LEAFS said:


> See a recurring trend here, don't draft defensive D that high, especially ones who aren't high end skaters. Hickey was a reach at the time. Bogosian had everything that could go wrong, go wrong. His career is probably much better if he was handled like Pietrangelo and not Doughty, on top of the injury problems. Adam Larsson may not put up top pairing offensive numbers, but he is a high end shut down D, that every team would love to have.




Also look at the forwards that went immeiately after these guys. Its not like these dmen were taken ahead of multiple great forward prospects. Dmen generally go where they should in the draft. The guys drafted very high, like Doughty, Ekblad, Hedman, etc, generally DESERVE to go ahead of the forwards they went ahead of (e.g. Filatov, Reinhart, Duchene, etc). Similarly, the dmen listed above, genereally deserved to go ahead or at a comparable spot to most if not all of the forwards that went immediately after them. 

After JJ -Pouliot, Brule, and Skille. So a pile of garbage. JJ may be disappointing, but aside from Price, he's still the best guy available at 3rd OA in that draft. 

After Hickey - Gagner, Voracek, and Hamill. Again, pretty mixed bag here. One depth forward, one top line winger, and one bust. Hickey isnt exactly sticking out as a bad pick compared to those forwards, only compared to Voracek. But you could have missed just as easily by taking Gagner. Plus Alzner went right after Hickey (while also being consistently ranked higher) and he's easily better than 2/3 of those forwards as well.

After Bogosian/Schenn - Filatov, Wilson, and Boedker. A big bust forward, then two decent 2nd/3rd line tweeners, but its not like any stud forwards went in this range. 

After Gudbranson - Johansen, Niderreiter, and Connolly. Johansen is clearly better, but as a group, the forwards arent clearly a step above the dman available here. Id take 1/3 of these forwards ahead of Gudbranson with hindsight. 

After Larsson - Strome, Zbad, and Scheifele. This group is a bit better, no clear busts. But also no clear franchise guys either. I wouldnt necessarily take Larsson ahead of these guys in hindsight, but its not like the gap is big either. 

After Reinhart - Forsberg, Grigorenko, and Faksa. One really good looking forward, then two meh guys. And keep in mind that the top 10 of this draft included Rielly, Murray, Lindholm, Trouba, and Dumba. So while Reinhart may be trending towards bust territory, you still had better odds with the 4th OA pick taking a dman than taking a forward.


----------



## 93LEAFS

416Leafer said:


> Also look at the forwards that went immeiately after these guys. Its not like these dmen were taken ahead of multiple great forward prospects. Dmen generally go where they should in the draft. The guys drafted very high, like Doughty, Ekblad, Hedman, etc, generally DESERVE to go ahead of the forwards they went ahead of (e.g. Filatov, Reinhart, Duchene, etc). Similarly, the dmen listed above, genereally deserved to go ahead or at a comparable spot to most if not all of the forwards that went immediately after them.
> 
> After JJ -Pouliot, Brule, and Skille. So a pile of garbage. JJ may be disappointing, but aside from Price, he's still the best guy available at 3rd OA in that draft.
> 
> After Hickey - Gagner, Voracek, and Hamill. Again, pretty mixed bag here. One depth forward, one top line winger, and one bust. Hickey isnt exactly sticking out as a bad pick compared to those forwards, only compared to Voracek. But you could have missed just as easily by taking Gagner. Plus Alzner went right after Hickey (while also being consistently ranked higher) and he's easily better than 2/3 of those forwards as well.
> 
> After Bogosian/Schenn - Filatov, Wilson, and Boedker. A big bust forward, then two decent 2nd/3rd line tweeners, but its not like any stud forwards went in this range.
> 
> After Gudbranson - Johansen, Niderreiter, and Connolly. Johansen is clearly better, but as a group, the forwards arent clearly a step above the dman available here. Id take 1/3 of these forwards ahead of Gudbranson with hindsight.
> 
> After Larsson - Strome, Zbad, and Scheifele. This group is a bit better, no clear busts. But also no clear franchise guys either. I wouldnt necessarily take Larsson ahead of these guys in hindsight, but its not like the gap is big either.
> 
> After Reinhart - Forsberg, Grigorenko, and Faksa. One really good looking forward, then two meh guys. And keep in mind that the top 10 of this draft included Rielly, Murray, Lindholm, Trouba, and Dumba. So while Reinhart may be trending towards bust territory, you still had better odds with the 4th OA pick taking a dman than taking a forward.



In some cases, particularly Bogosian and Reinhart, much better D were taken right after (Pietrangelo and Rielly, Lindholm, and Trouba). I do think Bogosian had one of the worst developmental situations I've seen along with bad luck, if developed like Pietrangelo his career could be much different.


----------



## Diddy

93LEAFS said:


> See a recurring trend here, don't draft defensive D that high, especially ones who aren't high end skaters. Hickey was a reach at the time. Bogosian had everything that could go wrong, go wrong. His career is probably much better if he was handled like Pietrangelo and not Doughty, on top of the injury problems. Adam Larsson may not put up top pairing offensive numbers, but he is a high end shut down D, that every team would love to have.




U must've bolded Schenn by mistake as he's clearly carrying the offensive load for LA tonight. 2 goals going for 3 to tie the game lol. I think he carried doughty this year.

Edit: his first was giving to someone else.


----------



## puckfan13

Hard not to say he is fading a bit down the stretch here just by observation. However, long season in a new country - he has simply played a ton of minutes against top F, ton of games (reg season + WJ + playoffs). That all has to be taken into account - his body type by the looks of it was not prepared for that big of a grind, which is fine going forward if it's rectified.

Looking like Sergachev is going to be the first d-man taken at this point. Juolevi's game will be just fine though.


----------



## me2

snipes said:


> Doughty, OEL, Hedman, Ekblad in recent years are Franchise D.
> 
> But yeah, there will always be the Cam Baker and Jack Johnson's.




Forwards also get away a lot more because points covers up flaws a lot more for them. Weak defensive play gets Dmen roasted alive. Points buy forwards a lot of blinkered love.


----------



## Royal Canuck

Now that the Canucks slide to 5th, really hoping the Oilers pass up on this guy for Vancouver to take at 5.


----------



## The Winter Soldier

If I am Edmonton. It's going to be very interesting Juolevi, Dubois, or Tkachuk. I would be tempted to make the gutsy call and go with the D man here.


----------



## Mad Brills*

He won't fall past buffalo at 8.


----------



## BB88

Read on Ilta Sanomat that reports say Edmonton has serious intrest in him at 4, has anyone heard same?
Is Juolevi the D-prospect they prefer.


----------



## 93LEAFS

BB88 said:


> Read on Ilta Sanomat that reports say Edmonton has serious intrest in him at 4, has anyone heard same?
> Is Juolevi the D-prospect they prefer.



Don't think anyone knows, but it wouldn't surprise me. He is the safest option. What Oilers do at 4 is truly up in the air. They could easily trade it, or trade RNH for a D, then draft a forward. I think Oilers should gamble on Chychrun because they don't have a true #1 going forward, but if they want to play it safe or think Klefbom can be a #1 Juolevi is the guy, I think he'll be a perfect #2 in this league, and at worst end up a 2nd pairing guy.


----------



## truthbluth

Haven't read through the whole thread. Is Juolevi on loan to London? In other words, is he AHL eligible next season?


----------



## Revelate

truthbluth said:


> Haven't read through the whole thread. Is Juolevi on loan to London? In other words, is he AHL eligible next season?




He isn't, so he's not AHL eligible next season


----------



## truthbluth

Revelate said:


> He isn't, so he's not AHL eligible next season




Thanks.


----------



## M2Beezy

Would love him somehow on the Canucks just no way we pass up on Tkachuck at 5


----------



## 93LEAFS

snipes said:


> Doughty, OEL, Hedman, Ekblad in recent years are Franchise D.
> 
> But yeah, there will always be the Cam Baker and Jack Johnson's.



Bogosian was perceived to be a legit challenger to Doughty. Karlsson went mid-first behind Doughty-Bogosian-Schenn-Tyler Myers-Teubert. I'd say lots of elite defenders go high in their drafts, on top of who you mentioned Risto and Jones look elite, from 2012 most would agree one of Murray-Rielly-Lindholm-Trouba is likely to end up the best (Ghost is making a strong argument though, but hell he was passed over in 2011).

Defenders are probably the hardest position to project out of goalies. I'd say wingers are probably the easiest, followed by centers because most centers can be moved to the wing pretty easily. I'd say this is due to the fact, so much of playing defence is about anticipation, and while you can easily tell who can anticipate plays at the current speed, it is much harder to tell who can adjust as the game gets significantly faster. 

Another thing I'd like to point out is that, the changes the NHL made to limit hard neutral zone hitting led to a bunch of young defenders having to change what they built there game around. For example, a heavy hitter like Dion built his game around killing guys in open ice, the fear of him hitting you made the gambles he took to make those hits worthwhile over the long haul, as soon as that became a suspend-able hit, that gamble is no longer worth it, but his instincts are still telling him to make it, so he appears awkward. I feel a lot of the more physical defencemen drafted between 2005-2010 had to adapt there game in a similar way and never reached there ceiling because of it.


----------



## FinlandPanther

I really hope the oilers done take him. Would be great to see 2-4 be Finns but that's the last place I want him to develop.


----------



## BB88

FinlandPanther said:


> I really hope the oilers done take him. Would be great to see 2-4 be Finns but that's the last place I want him to develop.




To be fair Knights would be developing him atleast next year, and that's one of the best places to be, and what's Edmonton going to be like in 1-2years, who knows.


I was thinking, and not talking about same level of talent but could Juolevi-Ristolainen be futures Josi-Weber duo?
Weber is someone Ristolainen looks up to and Juolevi could be that quicker, extremely smart all around defender.


----------



## Flames Draft Watcher

Ezpz said:


> That happens nearly every year though. Very few hyped first round dmen pan out.




That isn't actually true. If you take an in depth look at the defensemen taken top 15 in the last 10 years vs forwards the bust rate of forwards vs defensemen is actually almost identical. I've crunched the numbers on another board.

This type of lazy analysis and generalizations gets us nowhere.

Here's a very brief look at it, if someone wants to do an in depth analysis I encourage it.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2006e.html

2006 - Biggest bust in the top 10? James Sheppard a forward.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2007e.html

2007 - You say Thomas Hickey at 4 (which was a reach at the time)? I say Sam Gagner at #6. Biggest bust in the top 10? Zach Hamill, a forward. Alzner, McDonagh and Shattenkirk turned out just fine. Hickey disappointed relative to draft position but that was more the Kings reaching for him than anything, he wasn't rated to go anywhere near #4. Ellerby is a disappointment as well.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2008e.html

2008 - Doughty, Bogosian, Pietroangelo, Schenn, Myers, Teubert and E. Karlsson all go top 15. Only Teubert busted. Meanwhile for forwards Filatov, Kyle Beach and Zach Boychuk were busts. Biggest bust in the top 10? Filatov a forward. So in this draft defensemen were FAR safer than forwards. And in the 2nd half of the first round as well you found d-men like Gardiner, Carlsson, Sbisa and Del Zotto. Meanwhile for forwards? Only Colborne, Ennis and Eberle. If you philosophically steered away from defensemen for forwards this draft you would have been making a fundamental mistake.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2009e.html

2009 - Hedman at #2? Franchise D. OEL at #6? Franchise D. Ellis, De Haan, Kulikov and Leddy? All useful players. Only Jared Cowan is arguably a bust and injuries derailed him. Biggest bust in the top 10? Scott Glennie a forward.

Anyways we could go on but this idea that defensemen taken high are more risky is a total myth in the last 10 years. Your examples of defensemen who are taken high busting is easily matched by a list of forwards taken high who busted. Your examples of star defensemen taken in the 2nd and later are easily matched by examples of star forwards being taken in the 2nd and later. Those examples prove nothing. If you do an in depth analysis of the bust rate for defensemen taken top 10 in the draft its going to be very similar to the bust rate for forwards taken in the top 10. If anything recent history is showing forwards may be more risky overall.

Throw in the fact that top 3-4 defensemen hold crazy value in trade and shying away from them in the top 10 of the draft if they are the best player available would be a foolish strategy and philosophy.


----------



## Doug Prishpreed

Flames Draft Watcher said:


> That isn't actually true. If you take an in depth look at the defensemen taken top 15 in the last 10 years vs forwards the bust rate of forwards vs defensemen is actually almost identical. I've crunched the numbers on another board.
> 
> This type of lazy analysis and generalizations gets us nowhere.
> 
> Here's a very brief look at it, if someone wants to do an in depth analysis I encourage it.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2006e.html
> 
> 2006 - Biggest bust in the top 10? James Sheppard a forward.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2007e.html
> 
> 2007 - You say Thomas Hickey at 4 (which was a reach at the time)? I say Sam Gagner at #6. Biggest bust in the top 10? Zach Hamill, a forward. Alzner, McDonagh and Shattenkirk turned out just fine. Hickey disappointed relative to draft position but that was more the Kings reaching for him than anything, he wasn't rated to go anywhere near #4. Ellerby is a disappointment as well.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2008e.html
> 
> 2008 - Doughty, Bogosian, Pietroangelo, Schenn, Myers, Teubert and E. Karlsson all go top 15. Only Teubert busted. Meanwhile for forwards Filatov, Kyle Beach and Zach Boychuk were busts. Biggest bust in the top 10? Filatov a forward. So in this draft defensemen were FAR safer than forwards. And in the 2nd half of the first round as well you found d-men like Gardiner, Carlsson, Sbisa and Del Zotto. Meanwhile for forwards? Only Colborne, Ennis and Eberle. If you philosophically steered away from defensemen for forwards this draft you would have been making a fundamental mistake.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2009e.html
> 
> 2009 - Hedman at #2? Franchise D. OEL at #6? Franchise D. Ellis, De Haan, Kulikov and Leddy? All useful players. Only Jared Cowan is arguably a bust and injuries derailed him. Biggest bust in the top 10? Scott Glennie a forward.
> 
> Anyways we could go on but this idea that defensemen taken high are more risky is a total myth in the last 10 years. Your examples of defensemen who are taken high busting is easily matched by a list of forwards taken high who busted. Your examples of star defensemen taken in the 2nd and later are easily matched by examples of star forwards being taken in the 2nd and later. Those examples prove nothing. If you do an in depth analysis of the bust rate for defensemen taken top 10 in the draft its going to be very similar to the bust rate for forwards taken in the top 10. If anything recent history is showing forwards may be more risky overall.
> 
> Throw in the fact that top 3-4 defensemen hold crazy value in trade and shying away from them in the top 10 of the draft if they are the best player available would be a foolish strategy and philosophy.




So interesting!! Thank you for providing that analysis. I've always bought into that same myth. 

As a Buffalo fan, I want Juolevi very much. Him with Risto for the next decade sounds good to me, although it's looking more and more like he'll be long gone by then.


----------



## Knies iT

I think Juolevi's the best of the big three, but I also think the best d-man of this class will be an unexpected surprise (McAvoy, Fabbro, Johansen, etc.).


----------



## Zaddy

93LEAFS said:


> Don't think anyone knows, but it wouldn't surprise me. He is the safest option. What Oilers do at 4 is truly up in the air. They could easily trade it, or trade RNH for a D, then draft a forward. I think Oilers should gamble on Chychrun because they don't have a true #1 going forward, but if they want to play it safe or think Klefbom can be a #1 Juolevi is the guy, I think he'll be a perfect #2 in this league, and at worst end up a 2nd pairing guy.




As an Oilers fan I would not mind that. Dubois is my first choice if we keep the pick but I'm starting to think Juolevi would not be a bad selection either and might prefer him over Chychrun/Sergachyov. You really can't go wrong with Juolevi. Seems like a virtually guaranteed 2nd pairing at worst with a good chance of being a #2. His puck-moving skills are deeply needed on the Oilers blueline. He's the kind of guy every team needs in this day and age pretty much.


----------



## ps241

Flames Draft Watcher said:


> That isn't actually true. If you take an in depth look at the defensemen taken top 15 in the last 10 years vs forwards the bust rate of forwards vs defensemen is actually almost identical. I've crunched the numbers on another board.
> 
> This type of lazy analysis and generalizations gets us nowhere.
> 
> Here's a very brief look at it, if someone wants to do an in depth analysis I encourage it.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2006e.html
> 
> 2006 - Biggest bust in the top 10? James Sheppard a forward.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2007e.html
> 
> 2007 - You say Thomas Hickey at 4 (which was a reach at the time)? I say Sam Gagner at #6. Biggest bust in the top 10? Zach Hamill, a forward. Alzner, McDonagh and Shattenkirk turned out just fine. Hickey disappointed relative to draft position but that was more the Kings reaching for him than anything, he wasn't rated to go anywhere near #4. Ellerby is a disappointment as well.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2008e.html
> 
> 2008 - Doughty, Bogosian, Pietroangelo, Schenn, Myers, Teubert and E. Karlsson all go top 15. Only Teubert busted. Meanwhile for forwards Filatov, Kyle Beach and Zach Boychuk were busts. Biggest bust in the top 10? Filatov a forward. So in this draft defensemen were FAR safer than forwards. And in the 2nd half of the first round as well you found d-men like Gardiner, Carlsson, Sbisa and Del Zotto. Meanwhile for forwards? Only Colborne, Ennis and Eberle. If you philosophically steered away from defensemen for forwards this draft you would have been making a fundamental mistake.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2009e.html
> 
> 2009 - Hedman at #2? Franchise D. OEL at #6? Franchise D. Ellis, De Haan, Kulikov and Leddy? All useful players. Only Jared Cowan is arguably a bust and injuries derailed him. Biggest bust in the top 10? Scott Glennie a forward.
> 
> Anyways we could go on but this idea that defensemen taken high are more risky is a total myth in the last 10 years. Your examples of defensemen who are taken high busting is easily matched by a list of forwards taken high who busted. Your examples of star defensemen taken in the 2nd and later are easily matched by examples of star forwards being taken in the 2nd and later. Those examples prove nothing. If you do an in depth analysis of the bust rate for defensemen taken top 10 in the draft its going to be very similar to the bust rate for forwards taken in the top 10. If anything recent history is showing forwards may be more risky overall.
> 
> Throw in the fact that top 3-4 defensemen hold crazy value in trade and shying away from them in the top 10 of the draft if they are the best player available would be a foolish strategy and philosophy.




Great post.


----------



## Ultra Mega Chychrun

Flames Draft Watcher said:


> That isn't actually true. If you take an in depth look at the defensemen taken top 15 in the last 10 years vs forwards the bust rate of forwards vs defensemen is actually almost identical. I've crunched the numbers on another board.
> 
> This type of lazy analysis and generalizations gets us nowhere.
> 
> Here's a very brief look at it, if someone wants to do an in depth analysis I encourage it.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2006e.html
> 
> 2006 - Biggest bust in the top 10? James Sheppard a forward.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2007e.html
> 
> 2007 - You say Thomas Hickey at 4 (which was a reach at the time)? I say Sam Gagner at #6. Biggest bust in the top 10? Zach Hamill, a forward. Alzner, McDonagh and Shattenkirk turned out just fine. Hickey disappointed relative to draft position but that was more the Kings reaching for him than anything, he wasn't rated to go anywhere near #4. Ellerby is a disappointment as well.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2008e.html
> 
> 2008 - Doughty, Bogosian, Pietroangelo, Schenn, Myers, Teubert and E. Karlsson all go top 15. Only Teubert busted. Meanwhile for forwards Filatov, Kyle Beach and Zach Boychuk were busts. Biggest bust in the top 10? Filatov a forward. So in this draft defensemen were FAR safer than forwards. And in the 2nd half of the first round as well you found d-men like Gardiner, Carlsson, Sbisa and Del Zotto. Meanwhile for forwards? Only Colborne, Ennis and Eberle. If you philosophically steered away from defensemen for forwards this draft you would have been making a fundamental mistake.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2009e.html
> 
> 2009 - Hedman at #2? Franchise D. OEL at #6? Franchise D. Ellis, De Haan, Kulikov and Leddy? All useful players. Only Jared Cowan is arguably a bust and injuries derailed him. Biggest bust in the top 10? Scott Glennie a forward.
> 
> Anyways we could go on but this idea that defensemen taken high are more risky is a total myth in the last 10 years. Your examples of defensemen who are taken high busting is easily matched by a list of forwards taken high who busted. Your examples of star defensemen taken in the 2nd and later are easily matched by examples of star forwards being taken in the 2nd and later. Those examples prove nothing. If you do an in depth analysis of the bust rate for defensemen taken top 10 in the draft its going to be very similar to the bust rate for forwards taken in the top 10. If anything recent history is showing forwards may be more risky overall.
> 
> Throw in the fact that top 3-4 defensemen hold crazy value in trade and shying away from them in the top 10 of the draft if they are the best player available would be a foolish strategy and philosophy.




Very interesting, I thought dmen were riskier high picks. Does this hold true for more recent drafts too?


----------



## 1972

AHL eligible like Nylander next year?


----------



## JJTT

1972 said:


> AHL eligible like Nylander next year?




He has some kinda contract with KHL team Jokerit but seems unlikely he is AHL eligible 

http://www.jokerit.com/jokerit-ja-juolevi-yhteisymmarrykseen-jatkosta


----------



## 93LEAFS

Flames Draft Watcher said:


> That isn't actually true. If you take an in depth look at the defensemen taken top 15 in the last 10 years vs forwards the bust rate of forwards vs defensemen is actually almost identical. I've crunched the numbers on another board.
> 
> This type of lazy analysis and generalizations gets us nowhere.
> 
> Here's a very brief look at it, if someone wants to do an in depth analysis I encourage it.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2006e.html
> 
> 2006 - Biggest bust in the top 10? James Sheppard a forward.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2007e.html
> 
> 2007 - You say Thomas Hickey at 4 (which was a reach at the time)? I say Sam Gagner at #6. Biggest bust in the top 10? Zach Hamill, a forward. Alzner, McDonagh and Shattenkirk turned out just fine. Hickey disappointed relative to draft position but that was more the Kings reaching for him than anything, he wasn't rated to go anywhere near #4. Ellerby is a disappointment as well.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2008e.html
> 
> 2008 - Doughty, Bogosian, Pietroangelo, Schenn, Myers, Teubert and E. Karlsson all go top 15. Only Teubert busted. Meanwhile for forwards Filatov, Kyle Beach and Zach Boychuk were busts. Biggest bust in the top 10? Filatov a forward. So in this draft defensemen were FAR safer than forwards. And in the 2nd half of the first round as well you found d-men like Gardiner, Carlsson, Sbisa and Del Zotto. Meanwhile for forwards? Only Colborne, Ennis and Eberle. If you philosophically steered away from defensemen for forwards this draft you would have been making a fundamental mistake.
> 
> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2009e.html
> 
> 2009 - Hedman at #2? Franchise D. OEL at #6? Franchise D. Ellis, De Haan, Kulikov and Leddy? All useful players. Only Jared Cowan is arguably a bust and injuries derailed him. Biggest bust in the top 10? Scott Glennie a forward.
> 
> Anyways we could go on but this idea that defensemen taken high are more risky is a total myth in the last 10 years. Your examples of defensemen who are taken high busting is easily matched by a list of forwards taken high who busted. Your examples of star defensemen taken in the 2nd and later are easily matched by examples of star forwards being taken in the 2nd and later. Those examples prove nothing. If you do an in depth analysis of the bust rate for defensemen taken top 10 in the draft its going to be very similar to the bust rate for forwards taken in the top 10. If anything recent history is showing forwards may be more risky overall.
> 
> Throw in the fact that top 3-4 defensemen hold crazy value in trade and shying away from them in the top 10 of the draft if they are the best player available would be a foolish strategy and philosophy.



I think at the very-top of the draft D are bit harder to project. But in those cases the forward available is usually a sure thing. Pronman had an interesting post about this justifying why he had Marner and Strome ahead of Hanifin. The other thing is that forwards usually make an impact quicker, so you get more value from them in-regards to their ELC's. This is probably why we see the top D in the draft slip a bit like Jones and Hanifin. I think once you get out of the top 2 though, a D is not riskier than a forward. Not many of the recent D's drafted 1OA have lived up to that billing, Ekblad looks legit, but EJ, Berard, Phillips and Hamrlik never amounted to guys you would consider top 10 at their position league wide, which is what you expect drafting 1st overall


----------



## Periwinkle

JJTT said:


> He has some kinda contract with KHL team Jokerit but seems unlikely he is AHL eligible
> 
> http://www.jokerit.com/jokerit-ja-juolevi-yhteisymmarrykseen-jatkosta




That news doesn't specify the lenght and details of the contract. He/his agent would have to be pretty dumb to sign a contract that doesn't have an out clause for AHL.


----------



## Marre

Periwinkle said:


> That news doesn't specify the lenght and details of the contract. He/his agent would have to be pretty dumb to sign a contract that doesn't have an out clause for AHL.




True. If Juolevi doesn't have AHL option, his agent really is rather high in 'agent of the year'-nominations. It would be simply stupid. No need to use AHL-option if CHL seems better fit also after draft, but absolutely no reason to close that door beforehand. If KHL-Jokerit do not work getting around that CHL-AHL-clause, they could had easily found some Liiga club to help him out on this.


----------



## JustaFinnishGuy

How does Olli fare against Chychcyhchychychrun? And btw, that's me trying to spell his name in real life. How does one spell Chychrun?


----------



## Mr B

I don't believe Juolevi would be allowed to play in AHL due to an artificial contract with any KHL or FEL team.



> Players drafted and playing for CHL teams are ineligible to play in the professional minor leagues (AHL, ECHL) until they are 20 years old (by December 31st of that year) or have completed four years in major juniors.
> 
> European players further complicate The Agreement. If European players are drafted in the CHL draft before they're drafted by an NHL club, this rule applies to them. However, if they're drafted as a member of a European squad, and choose post-NHL-draft to play for a CHL team, they can, in fact, report to the NHL team's minor squads before the age limit kicks in.
> 
> Ivan Vishnevskiy was the Rouyn-Noranda Huskies' (QMJHL) second pick in the CHL import draft in 2005, before being drafted by the Dallas Stars out of R-N in 2006. Since he was drafted from a CHL team, the same rules apply to Vishnevskiy as any other player drafted from a CHL team: 20 years old or 4 years of play. Vishnevskiy played for Rouyn-Noranda for three seasons, turned 20 during the 2007-2008 season, and reported to the Peoria Rivermen of the AHL to start the 2008-2009 season.




As Juolevi was drafted to CHL and played there, he's not AHL eligible until the year he turns 20. If he doesn't make the NHL, he'd have to play either in Europe or CHL for the next two seasons.


----------



## Tim Raines

Juolevi makes so much sense for Ottawa that I can see them making a play to move up.


----------



## vaiski

Mr B said:


> I don't believe Juolevi would be allowed to play in AHL due to an artificial contract with any KHL or FEL team.
> 
> 
> 
> As Juolevi was drafted to CHL and played there, he's not AHL eligible until the year he turns 20. If he doesn't make the NHL, he'd have to play either in Europe or CHL for the next two seasons.




Julius Honka was in the exact same situation as Juolevi and he was eligible to play in the AHL. There was a lot of confusion about how that worked and I believe it was essentially through a loophole in the rules. But taking that into acount, the AHL seemes like an option for him.


----------



## Gsus

JustaFinnishGuy said:


> How does Olli fare against Chychcyhchychychrun? And btw, that's me trying to spell his name in real life. How does one spell Chychrun?




I'm interested and also had the same problem couple of days ago. I think I'm better at spelling NA names than most of the NA people here but that guy made me wanna flip the table over. That is a tier for the footballer Blaszczykowski.


----------



## FinPanda

vaiski said:


> Julius Honka was in the exact same situation as Juolevi and he was eligible to play in the AHL. There was a lot of confusion about how that worked and I believe it was essentially through a loophole in the rules. But taking that into acount, the AHL seemes like an option for him.



Honka was loaned, I don't think Juolevi is. Different situation.


----------



## 93LEAFS

vaiski said:


> Julius Honka was in the exact same situation as Juolevi and he was eligible to play in the AHL. There was a lot of confusion about how that worked and I believe it was essentially through a loophole in the rules. But taking that into acount, the AHL seemes like an option for him.



Pretty sure it had to do with Honka's loan agreement expiring prior to the draft, meaning he was technically drafted out of Europe. Unless we have seen the actual expiring date on the loan agreements I don't think anyone here can give a definitive answer on Juolevi, and Nylander.


----------



## Ingvar

aka Ude said:


> I'm interested and also had the same problem couple of days ago. I think I'm better at spelling NA names than most of the NA people here but that guy made me wanna flip the table over. That is a tier for the footballer Blaszczykowski.




"szcz" is one sound in Polish roughly equivalent to Russian "щ". Other than that it has a typical Polish surname structure, nothing especially hard about it to warrant a tier of its own.


----------



## Lempo

Ingvar said:


> "szcz" is one sound in Polish roughly equivalent to Russian "щ". Other than that it has a typical Polish surname structure, nothing especially hard about it to warrant a tier of its own.




Yeah but he's a Finn and thusly on default very sparing with his combined consonants. Personally I straighten my back and take a smug satisfied inhale everytime I write 'Schwarzenegger' correctly.


----------



## bossram

MantisTobogganMD said:


> Very interesting, I thought dmen were riskier high picks. Does this hold true for more recent drafts too?




Pronman did a post on this. 

He basically said the reason to prioritize forwards at the top of the draft is because the majority of top forwards in the league are found there, not because they are inherently safer. 

You very rarely find an elite forward outside the top of the draft. But finding elite defensemen outside the top of the draft (while not likely) is more common.


----------



## 93LEAFS

bossram said:


> Pronman did a post on this.
> 
> He basically said the reason to prioritize forwards at the top of the draft is because the majority of top forwards in the league are found there, not because they are inherently safer.
> 
> You very rarely find an elite forward outside the top of the draft. But finding elite defensemen outside the top of the draft (while not likely) is more common.



That was one point, another was that forwards are more important than defenders, particularly at ES, as the gap between an elite forward and a 4th liner, is much greater than the difference between a #1D and a #6D. A lot of the theory comes from Hockey Abstract. I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion though, but that was the premise he worked with. I don't recall him saying anything about it being easier to get elite defenders later than forwards, but that may of been in a different article.


----------



## Kritty

*Juolevi = Vlasic?*

Curious if it's just me, or does Juolevi remind anyone else so much of ME Vlasic? Size, skating ability, offensive instincts, passing ability, stickwork and two way play. He's going to make one team very happy in the top 10.


----------



## Tulipunaruusu*

Blue Jackets will be happy with him.


----------



## Sputniker

Tulipunaruusu said:


> Blue Jackets will be happy with him.




Blue Jackets won't draft him.


----------



## 1972

Kritty said:


> Curious if it's just me, or does Juolevi remind anyone else so much of ME Vlasic? Size, skating ability, offensive instincts, passing ability, stickwork and two way play. He's going to make one team very happy in the top 10.




I've mentioned that before as well.


----------



## JJTT

Tulipunaruusu said:


> Blue Jackets will be happy with him.




Why on earth would they pick him? They have Werenski, Murray, Carlsson, Heatherington, Nutivaara and Kukan already on LD.


----------



## Tulipunaruusu*

JJTT said:


> Why on earth would they pick him?




What did Jarmo KekÃ¤lÃ¤inen write on the wall of Hartwall-Arena, the home of Jokerit?


----------



## Mahonkinen

Tulipunaruusu said:


> What did Jarmo KekÃ¤lÃ¤inen write on the wall of Hartwall-Arena, the home of Jokerit?




Well please do tell.


----------



## Tulipunaruusu*

The story is in Urheilulehti. Publicly available for all.

http://www.urheilulehti.fi/jaakiekko/muistatko-mita-kirjoitit-jokeri-areenan-seinaan-jarmo-kekalainen

Olli Juolevi is Jarmo KekÃ¤lÃ¤inen.


----------



## JJTT

Tulipunaruusu said:


> The story is in Urheilulehti. Publicly available for all.
> 
> http://www.urheilulehti.fi/jaakiekko/muistatko-mita-kirjoitit-jokeri-areenan-seinaan-jarmo-kekalainen
> *
> Olli Juolevi is Jarmo KekÃ¤lÃ¤inen.*


----------



## Redline

Olli will open some eyes at the Memorial Cup. Anyone that's wondering why he's so highly rated can see for themselves. Tremendous poise and hockey sense, good positioning and plenty of skill.

If he drops out of the top 10 it will be like a 4th team winning the lottery.


----------



## tsujimoto74

Redline said:


> Olli will open some eyes at the Memorial Cup. Anyone that's wondering why he's so highly rated can see for themselves. Tremendous poise and hockey sense, good positioning and plenty of skill.
> 
> If he drops out of the top 10 it will be like a 4th team winning the lottery.




I'm just hoping he makes it to 8 for Buffalo.


----------



## BB88

tsujimoto74 said:


> I'm just hoping he makes it to 8 for Buffalo.




I think he'd be a perfect D-partner for RR.


----------



## blinkman360

tsujimoto74 said:


> I'm just hoping he makes it to 8 for Buffalo.




I don't see him slipping by Arizona. He'd be perfect for Buffalo though.


----------



## 93LEAFS

blinkman360 said:


> I don't see him slipping by Arizona. He'd be perfect for Buffalo though.



It wouldn't shock me. Arizona's gm seems to be a guy who would value skill and possession heavily, which could lead them to take Keller at 7 if he's still there, which he likely will be. Then address D in bulk with there later picks.


----------



## Kritty

tsujimoto74 said:


> I'm just hoping he makes it to 8 for Buffalo.




If Dubois and Tkachuk are gone at 6, I could see the Flames taking Juolevi. As much as they need the forward help, I'm not sure they could or should pass on him.


----------



## tsujimoto74

Kritty said:


> If Dubois and Tkachuk are gone at 6, I could see the Flames taking Juolevi. As much as they need the forward help, I'm not sure they could or should pass on him.




I tend to think Calgary is going for Nylander. I think the biggest threat to take a defenseman is definitely Arizona. As a Sabres (and Juolevi) fan, I just hope they like Chychrun or Sergachev more and leave the Finn for us.


----------



## Battle Lin

watched 1st memorial game, this isnt the best Dman in an nhl draft, no way


----------



## TheKrebsCycle

Battle Lin said:


> watched 1st memorial game, this isnt the best Dman in an nhl draft, no way




While I agree with you that he's not the best dman in the draft (I'm personally in the Serg camp) don't you think its a little ridiculous to come to this conclusion based on one game...


----------



## snipes

Battle Lin said:


> watched 1st memorial game, this isnt the best Dman in an nhl draft, no way




Agreed. I was not impressed with Juolevi at all and haven't been in my other viewings either. He looked so soft on that 1 on 1 play in the late 2nd or 3rd period. He would get eaten alive in the Pacific.


----------



## A1LeafNation

He looked slow for the NHL.


----------



## Magua

Hmm. Respectfully disagree with y'all. He didn't look great on that Spacek play, but maybe that one play in the 3rd is coloring the rest of his game or something. He wasn't anything mind blowing, but I thought he had a pretty Olli Juolevi game: smart, accurate passes under pressure, great gaps, subtle intelligent reads all over the ice. I was routinely nodding at all the little things he did.


----------



## NHL Dude 120

So folks whats his ETA to the NHL??


----------



## hbk

93LEAFS said:


> It wouldn't shock me. Arizona's gm seems to be a guy who would value skill and possession heavily, which could lead them to take Keller at 7 if he's still there, which he likely will be. Then address D in bulk with there later picks.




Are you referring to Tippett or Chytka? 

I don't see Tippett prioritizing Keller given he knows he has Domi as a lock on that roster for next decade.

Tippett has been vocal about adding a D. I suspect the pick will be dealt for immediate help or their top rated D who may be Juolevi but I wouldn't be shocked if it's Fabbro. AZ has a 1LD in OEL. RD harder to find.


----------



## HockeyHistorian

NHL Dude 120 said:


> So folks whats his ETA to the NHL??




One or two years. Needs more strength and speed. Otherwise he could make the jump next season.


----------



## 93LEAFS

hbk said:


> Are you referring to Tippett or Chytka?
> 
> I don't see Tippett prioritizing Keller given he knows he has Domi as a lock on that roster for next decade.
> 
> Tippett has been vocal about adding a D. I suspect the pick will be dealt for immediate help or their top rated D who may be Juolevi but I wouldn't be shocked if it's Fabbro. AZ has a 1LD in OEL. RD harder to find.



Chayka. Analytics guys are high on skill possession guys. As evidenced by some of the picks by teams that leaned on them last year.


----------



## hbk

93LEAFS said:


> Chayka. Analytics guys are high on skill possession guys. As evidenced by some of the picks by teams that leaned on them last year.




Bernhardt is director of scouting. Not sure the new guy is going to completely recalibrate his teams list prior to draft. 

Team is leaning towards D. No question.


----------



## 93LEAFS

hbk said:


> Bernhardt is director of scouting. Not sure the new guy is going to completely recalibrate his teams list prior to draft.
> 
> Team is leaning towards D. No question.



Chayka had a position since last year, you can assume he had some input on scouting directives. Its most likely he had a say on Merkley last year. We'll see at the draft. Good chance they go D, but Pronman has them going Nylander, personally if he's off the board I could easily see them going Keller, then addressing D in bulk with there later 1st and second.


----------



## hbk

93LEAFS said:


> Chayka had a position since last year, you can assume he had some input on scouting directives. Its most likely he had a say on Merkley last year. We'll see at the draft. Good chance they go D, but Pronman has them going Nylander, personally if he's off the board I could easily see them going Keller, then addressing D in bulk with there later 1st and second.




I think they go D before Keller and that Jost will be higher on their list as well. 

Merkley they had rated in the teens. As did Calgary. AZ was set to draft Fisher at that pick and then pounced when Merkley was still there.


----------



## EichHart

3 Assists tonight. How did he look?


----------



## 93LEAFS

EichHart said:


> 3 Assists tonight. How did he look?



Watched only til the end of the 2nd (Raps were quite important). Had one great outlet pass to set up Jones. Typical Juolevi game, never really wowed you, but didn't make mistakes. Looked much better than the first game.


----------



## TheKrebsCycle

EichHart said:


> 3 Assists tonight. How did he look?




Really smooth. Had 4 great outlet passes that either resulted in full or partial break aways/scoring chance/goals. Really crisp passes overall. Made alot of smart little plays to get out of trouble/relieve pressure. Got knocked around a bit physically at times but was generally really composed. Chia was interviewed during the 2nd intermission and said both he and Tkachuk are considerations for the Oilers at 4. Like the previous poster I took most of the 3rd period off to concentrate on Raptors game so the majority of my viewing was from first 2.


----------



## Knies iT

EichHart said:


> 3 Assists tonight. How did he look?



Solid as usual, except for maybe one play on the PK where he over committed that led to a goal.

His stretch pass is nuts. Guy can hit player right on the tape from anywhere. The panel attributed a lot of the Knights' offensive success to the puck movers on the backend (Mete, Juo), said it's what separates London from other offensive juggernauts like Moose Jaw.


----------



## EichHart

93LEAFS said:


> Watched only til the end of the 2nd (Raps were quite important). Had one great outlet pass to set up Jones. Typical Juolevi game, never really wowed you, but didn't make mistakes. Looked much better than the first game.






Maplelaughs97 said:


> Really smooth. Had 4 great outlet passes that either resulted in full or partial break aways/scoring chance/goals. Really crisp passes overall. Made alot of smart little plays to get out of trouble/relieve pressure. Got knocked around a bit physically at times but was generally really composed. Chia was interviewed during the 2nd intermission and said both he and Tkachuk are considerations for the Oilers at 4. Like the previous poster I took most of the 3rd period off to concentrate on Raptors game so the majority of my viewing was from first 2.






95 said:


> Solid as usual, except for maybe one play on the PK where he over committed that led to a goal.
> 
> His stretch pass is nuts. Guy can hit player right on the tape from anywhere. The panel attributed a lot of the Knights' offensive success to the puck movers on the backend (Mete, Juo), said it's what separates London from other offensive juggernauts like Moose Jaw.





Thanks! I think its between Olli & Chychrun at pick 8 for us.


----------



## TheKrebsCycle

EichHart said:


> Thanks! I think its between *Olli & Chychrun* at pick 8 for us.




One of them should be there, tho seems likelier to be Chychrun at this point. I actually like Serg the best of the 3 top dmen honestly.


----------



## Tripod

If you are Arizona sitting at #7 and seeing him pass to Dvorak, is he your pick given the have lots of F prospects?


----------



## hbk

Tripod said:


> If you are Arizona sitting at #7 and seeing him pass to Dvorak, is he your pick given the have lots of F prospects?




They have picks 20 and 37 to address D if not sold on Juolevi.


----------



## snipes

NHL Dude 120 said:


> So folks whats his ETA to the NHL??




He should be sent back down for his 18-19 and 19-20 junior seasons. Most D men need time to develop and physically mature for the NHL. Same goes for Chychrun, he needs at minimum one more year in junior.

Ideally, you want your D prospects to be grown men when they step into the NHL and deal with the dump & chase, heavy forecheck NA style game.


----------



## 93LEAFS

snipes said:


> He should be sent back down for his 18-19 and 19-20 junior seasons. Most D men need time to develop and physically mature for the NHL. Same goes for Chychrun, he needs at minimum one more year in junior.
> 
> Ideally, you want your D prospects to be grown men when they step into the NHL and deal with the dump & chase, heavy forecheck NA style game.



Both need at least one more year. Could see both in Provorov type situation entering their draft +2 years. Rushing them next year though could be disastrous. Can't see Juolevi excelling against NHL speed on small ice, as he already can have occasional trouble at the CHL level. Thats why he has his best play when he isn't against heavy forecheck, when he has time to make the correct pass and read.


----------



## snipes

93LEAFS said:


> Both need at least one more year. Could see both in Provorov type situation entering their draft +2 years. Rushing them next year though could be disastrous. Can't see Juolevi excelling against NHL speed on small ice, as he already can have occasional trouble at the CHL level. Thats why he has his best play when he isn't against heavy forecheck, when he has time to make the correct pass and read.




He needs another year in the weight room. He has a high hockey IQ, and he's excellent passer. But he needs to get physically stronger, he would get eaten alive facing an NHL forecheck. Imagine Juolevi playing in LA facing that forecheck at his age right now.

If he was drafted by Arizona and rushed into the lineup, he will get destroyed playing in the Pacific with the style our division plays. Even Nurse should have been down in the AHL all year and he's a strong kid.


----------



## 93LEAFS

snipes said:


> He needs another year in the weight room. He has a high hockey IQ, and he's excellent passer. But he needs to get physically stronger, he would get eaten alive facing an NHL forecheck. Imagine Juolevi playing in LA facing that forecheck at his age right now.
> 
> If he was drafted by Arizona and rushed into the lineup, he will get destroyed playing the Pacific with the style our division plays. Even Nurse should have been down in the AHL all year and he's a strong kid.



I've seen more of Juolevi than any other draft eligible than Tkachuk. Very smart, had a better WJC than OHL season due to space he gets. He'll be good, and yes strength is part of it, but its also adapting to how to use his smarts and speed of the game. He can be flustered under heavy forecheck, but is deadly if given space such as that pass last night to Jones. He doesn't have quite the speed yet to elude heavy pressure. It will be interesting to see Knights led by Tkachuk and him next year.


----------



## snipes

93LEAFS said:


> I've seen more of Juolevi than any other draft eligible than Tkachuk. Very smart, had a better WJC than OHL season due to space he gets. He'll be good, and yes strength is part of it, but its also adapting to how to use his smarts and speed of the game. He can be flustered under heavy forecheck, but is deadly if given space such as that pass last night to Jones. He doesn't have quite the speed yet to elude heavy pressure. It will be interesting to see Knights led by Tkachuk and him next year.




I agree. 

You've seen more of Juolevi then I have so I'll defer to your analysis. But, we're basically agreeing and saying the same thing. I see exactly what you are talking about in my limited viewings of Juolevi. Excellent smarts, good puck mover (as evidenced by the pass to Jones last night), average skater, prone to mistakes against a heavy forecheck.

I think him and Tkachuk both need another year in junior. It would be good for Tkachuk, he'll probably be the captain and "the guy" for London (I'm assuming Marner is in the NHL), would do wonders for him long term.


----------



## 1972

I don't see him having a lack of upside at all.


----------



## docbenton

snipes said:


> I agree.
> 
> You've seen more of Juolevi then I have so I'll defer to your analysis. But, we're basically agreeing and saying the same thing. I see exactly what you are talking about in my limited viewings of Juolevi. Excellent smarts, good puck mover (as evidenced by the pass to Jones last night), average skater, prone to mistakes against a heavy forecheck.
> 
> I think him and Tkachuk both need another year in junior. It would be good for Tkachuk, he'll probably be the captain and "the guy" for London (I'm assuming Marner is in the NHL), would do wonders for him long term.




I would disagree on a couple points: he's an excellent 4 way skater, but maybe not explosive. Far above average. 

I think he makes really good plays under forecheck, but needs to get stronger. I like his ability to stick to players like Scott Niedermayer used to do, but doesn't quite have Scott's strength and balance yet. He'll be so effective when he gets that strength.

The question mark is, he doesn't play a lot of minutes or tough minutes, because London's blue line is deep with really good veterans.


----------



## 7even

93LEAFS said:


> I've seen more of Juolevi than any other draft eligible than Tkachuk. Very smart, had a better WJC than OHL season due to space he gets. He'll be good, and yes strength is part of it, but its also adapting to how to use his smarts and speed of the game. He can be flustered under heavy forecheck, but is deadly if given space such as that pass last night to Jones. He doesn't have quite the speed yet to elude heavy pressure. It will be interesting to see Knights led by Tkachuk and him next year.




Sounds like Tomas Kaberle.


----------



## Huokaus

7even said:


> Sounds like Tomas Kaberle.




As someone who admittedly has only seen Juolevi play in the WJC's but has read numerous scouting reports by scouts and HFboards users, that actually sounds like a pretty decent comparison.


----------



## BB88

Would I be completely wrong if I said Juolevi was played like a #1D on the finals?

I thought he looked great, he seems like a prospect that is difficult to beat 1on1, and looked more aggressive offensively as the game went on.

Not bad year for Juolevi, became the 1st Finn to win Memorial Cup, + WJC gold.


----------



## stewpac

Thought Juolevi played his best hockey in the memorial cup and........ it wasn't overly great.


----------



## Magua

He doesn't need to dominate or lead the offense. That London team is so top line centric, pretty much everyone just needs to follow their lead and support them. He does show flashes though, and I do wonder what his game would look like if the Knights were more dependent on everyone to create. 

That said, I thought his entire Memorial Cup was the usual stuff from Juolevi. Solid, highly intelligent, excellent gap control and stick work, poise with and without the puck, great transitions. He's just a player that if you isolate on him impresses you with all the smart plays all over. I don't think he's a franchise #1, but a ceiling of a Stralman-like player doesn't seem unreasonable. That's a hell of a player, and he really fits the mold of what a good modern NHL d man is supposed to be. And I'm not sure I see a future #1 out of the other top d men either. Sergachyev is the only one for me who is dead even, but he has more risk.


----------



## Canucks LB

The guy is basically dan hamhuis


----------



## Battle Lin

if this kid is the best or even among the best D's in a draft then my gawd what a weak draft for defenesemen


----------



## Terrible GM

Said it in the Knights post, but I'm not impressed with him. He makes very good passes out of his zone, and skates extremely well, but he makes poor effort along the boards, and found tonight he was timid getting the puck when a huskie was near him. I just don't find him extremely special to be a top pairing guy. The hype from his great play in junior didn't stick with me after watching the knights all season, and playoffs.


----------



## Magua

Battle Lin said:


> if this kid is the best or even among the best D's in a draft then my gawd what a weak draft for defenesemen




It's a weird draft. There's not really any true top d men imo. Any of the 3 top guys from last year would be a lock in my mind to go first in this draft, or they should anyways. But the depth of d men into the 2nd is pretty good. There's a lot of "good" d men early. Wouldn't surprise me one bit for this draft to be one of those where the stars are not the top drafted ones.


----------



## Zaddy

Magua said:


> He doesn't need to dominate or lead the offense. That London team is so top line centric, pretty much everyone just needs to follow their lead and support them. He does show flashes though, and I do wonder what his game would look like if the Knights were more dependent on everyone to create.
> 
> That said, I thought his entire Memorial Cup was the usual stuff from Juolevi. Solid, highly intelligent, excellent gap control and stick work, poise with and without the puck, great transitions. He's just a player that if you isolate on him impresses you with all the smart plays all over. I don't think he's a franchise #1, but a ceiling of a Stralman-like player doesn't seem unreasonable. That's a hell of a player, and he really fits the mold of what a good modern NHL d man is supposed to be. And I'm not sure I see a future #1 out of the other top d men either. Sergachyev is the only one for me who is dead even, but he has more risk.




Great post, echoing my thoughts. I really do wonder what Juolevi would look like if he played on another team than the Knights. Their whole offense runs through Dvorak-Marner-Tkachuk. What would Juolevi look like if he played on a team where he was more relied on to provide offense? He looked way better offensively playing for Team Finland but I'm not sure if that was due to the bigger ice surface or the team he was playing on.


----------



## Uncle Scrooge

Zaddy Zads said:


> Great post, echoing my thoughts. I really do wonder what Juolevi would look like if he played on another team than the Knights. Their whole offense runs through Dvorak-Marner-Tkachuk. What would Juolevi look like if he played on a team where he was more relied on to provide offense? He looked way better offensively playing for Team Finland but I'm not sure if that was due to the bigger ice surface or the team he was playing on.




Im not an expert on him but what i gathered from the WJC's and what people with better OHL knowledge have said about him, it does feel like he's kind of like a complimentary player offensively. He can support your skilled forwards well, makes the pass and generally just helps them to do their thing. But he doesn't generate stuff by himself like, let's say, Letang or Burns does for example.

He feels more like a quietly good 2nd pairing guy with a decent defensive game than a future #1 offensive defenseman. Stats along the lines of 5+35 seem like would fit him.


----------



## 93LEAFS

M3ntalpr0 said:


> Im not an expert on him but what i gathered from the WJC's and what people with better OHL knowledge have said about him, it does feel like he's kind of like a complimentary player offensively. He can support your skilled forwards well, makes the pass and generally just helps them to do their thing. But he doesn't generate stuff by himself like, let's say, Letang or Burns does for example.
> 
> He feels more like a quietly good 2nd pairing guy with a decent defensive game than a future #1 offensive defenseman. Stats along the lines of 5+35 seem like would fit him.



He's clever and flashes high-end PP ability at times, its just the PP is QB'd by Marner and at times they want a better shot or Mete's speed out there. It will be interesting to see how he does next year, and he should run the PP. I still think Chychrun has the higher ceiling, but Juolevi's grown on me. He needs to get stronger (which will also help his shot). I fully expect him to break through offensively next year if Marner is on the leafs. He also needs some help adapting to the heavy forecheck on small ice, but I think that was more a problem with adjusting to the speed of the game and smaller surface than a long-term flaw.


----------



## BB88

93LEAFS said:


> He's clever and flashes high-end PP ability at times, its just the PP is QB'd by Marner and at times they want a better shot or Mete's speed out there. It will be interesting to see how he does next year, and he should run the PP. I still think Chychrun has the higher ceiling, but Juolevi's grown on me. He needs to get stronger (which will also help his shot). I fully expect him to break through offensively next year if Marner is on the leafs. He also needs some help adapting to the heavy forecheck on small ice, but I think that was more a problem with adjusting to the speed of the game and smaller surface than a long-term flaw.




The great thing is that he should be healthy now?
and will have a offseason to improve his skating and add strenght.
As he missed the last offseason with knee injury.

I liked last night how he was leading the play, he was constantly showing where to go or where to pass, is that normal for him in London?
The 1st 40mins he played a safe game but after that he started to push for offense more.


I like that (in way like Laine) he has done what he has done because of the skill/IQ he has, and not because of his physical tools, lot of potential to improve.


----------



## supermann_98

stewpac said:


> Thought Juolevi played his best hockey in the memorial cup and........ it wasn't overly great.




You're not the only one who thought this.

This draft is the weakest draft for Dmen in a long time. It's ugly


----------



## Ace

Battle Lin said:


> if this kid is the best or even among the best D's in a draft then my gawd what a weak draft for defenesemen




It is.

Unless you are one of the people who thinks Chychrun is going to magically put it together when he couldn't do so while being physically superior to his league. Spoiler alert...he won't.


----------



## Semantics

supermann_98 said:


> This draft is the weakest draft for Dmen in a long time. It's ugly




The kind of draft where you stay away from dmen in the first round and hope for a Keith/Subban/Weber type later on.


----------



## 93LEAFS

supermann_98 said:


> You're not the only one who thought this.
> 
> This draft is the weakest draft for Dmen in a long time. It's ugly



Outside of Ekblad, 2014 was ugly. I'd say this draft actually has better depth in regards to D. 2012, 2013 and 2015 had great talent at the top of the draft.


----------



## stewpac

supermann_98 said:


> You're not the only one who thought this.
> 
> This draft is the weakest draft for Dmen in a long time. It's ugly




I had high hopes going into the season with him but about the half way point I realized that he isn't the player I was expecting. He is ok at everything but not great. People like to point out his intelligence or hockey iq but he makes just as many bone head plays as the rest of the knights defense. I think he'll be a NHL player just not a top 4 defensman.


----------



## M2Beezy

Ace said:


> It is.
> 
> Unless you are one of the people who thinks Chychrun is going to magically put it together when he couldn't do so while being physically superior to his league. Spoiler alert...he won't.




Agreed. I have the following ahead of Chych

Juol
Serg
Bean
Mcavoy

Im sure im missing a few too


----------



## Bernier the Boats

M3ntalpr0 said:


> Im not an expert on him but what i gathered from the WJC's and what people with better OHL knowledge have said about him, it does feel like he's kind of like a complimentary player offensively. He can support your skilled forwards well, makes the pass and generally just helps them to do their thing. But he doesn't generate stuff by himself like, let's say, Letang or Burns does for example.
> 
> He feels more like a quietly good 2nd pairing guy with a decent defensive game than a future #1 offensive defenseman. Stats along the lines of *5+35 seem like would fit him*.




That would easily make him a number 1 dman. He's a guy who will play 25+ quality minutes a night, where his best attributes are being great at shot suppression while providing complementary offensive production. I think someone like John Carlson would be a good comparable. Good for about 35-40 points most years playing with skilled players. Doubt Juolevi will hit 55 points like Carlson has, but then again he plays on the best offensive team in the NHL, including the best power play.


----------



## docbenton

supermann_98 said:


> You're not the only one who thought this.
> 
> This draft is the weakest draft for Dmen in a long time. It's ugly




I think he's easily better than Provorov who's a similar type of player. But I've never been a fan of Provorov, had him 17th in 2015.


----------



## stewpac

Bernier the Boats said:


> That would easily make him a number 1 dman. He's a guy who will play 25+ quality minutes a night, where his best attributes are being great at shot suppression while providing complementary offensive production. I think someone like John Carlson would be a good comparable. Good for about 35-40 points most years playing with skilled players. Doubt Juolevi will hit 55 points like Carlson has, but then again he plays on the best offensive team in the NHL, including the best power play.




The knights never relied on him for 25 minutes a night, what makes you think that he is that type of player?


----------



## Vide

supermann_98 said:


> You're not the only one who thought this.
> 
> *This draft is the weakest draft for Dmen in a long time. It's ugly*




I don't agree with this at all. This is actually a strong draft for d-men. There isn't an Ekblad or Doughty in this draft no but there's lots and lots of guys who could be impact defensemen in this draft. Fact of the matter is that a lot of the top defensemen in the NHL today are guys who were drafted outside the top10. 

Karlsson, Weber, Subban, Josi, Vlasic, Burns, Giordano, Brodie, Letang, Klingberg, Carlson, Chara, McDonagh are examples of this. Basically most top defensemen aren't high picks.

I think this draft could produce a lot of top4 d-men, probably more than most drafts even. Chychrun, Sergachev, Juolevi, Bean, Fabbro, McAvoy and Dineen are all great prospects that I expect will be solid NHLers for many years. One (or more) of them might even turn into a stud #1D. 

Beyond them you have good depth in Hajek, Clague, Girard, Green, Fox, Carlsson and Johansen who I think have a good chance of being bottom4 defensemen in the NHL. I could go on with Stanley, Niemelainen, Lindgren, Krys, Lajoie, Mete, Moverare, Cederholm, Peeke, Day but these guys have a fairly long road to the NHL. Still solid prospects though.

Really, this is a good draft for defensemen. If anything the forward depth is severely lacking. Beyond the top15 or top18 there isn't much. I don't think you'll see many good forwards emerge from the latter part of the 1st round and beyond.


----------



## JPeeper

Came in this thread to check on Joulevi cause it looks like Flames might grab him.

All I see is people saying he isn't _that_ great. Awesome


----------



## bigbuff33

sydion said:


> I don't agree with this at all. This is actually a strong draft for d-men. There isn't an Ekblad or Doughty in this draft no but there's lots and lots of guys who could be impact defensemen in this draft. Fact of the matter is that a lot of the top defensemen in the NHL today are guys who were drafted outside the top10.
> 
> Karlsson, Weber, Subban, Josi, Vlasic, Burns, Giordano, Brodie, Letang, Klingberg, Carlson, Chara, McDonagh are examples of this. Basically most top defensemen aren't high picks.
> 
> I think this draft could produce a lot of top4 d-men, probably more than most drafts even. Chychrun, Sergachev, Juolevi, Bean, Fabbro, McAvoy and Dineen are all great prospects that I expect will be solid NHLers for many years. One (or more) of them might even turn into a stud #1D.
> 
> Beyond them you have good depth in Hajek, Clague, Girard, Green, Fox, Carlsson and Johansen who I think have a good chance of being bottom4 defensemen in the NHL. I could go on with Stanley, Niemelainen, Lindgren, Krys, Lajoie, Mete, Moverare, Cederholm, Peeke, Day but these guys have a fairly long road to the NHL. Still solid prospects though.
> 
> Really, this is a good draft for defensemen. If anything the forward depth is severely lacking. Beyond the top15 or top18 there isn't much. I don't think you'll see many good forwards emerge from the latter part of the 1st round and beyond.



I don't think any draft has more top 4 defenseman than 2012


----------



## Gsus

docbenton said:


> I think *he's easily better than Provorov* who's a similar type of player. But I've never been a fan of Provorov, had him 17th in 2015.


----------



## Magua

^

Agreed. If I'm a team outside the top 5-10 picks looking to hit on a solid d man in the first few rounds, this is a good draft to do so. There's just no truly elite d prospect or two, and the top ones don't have much separation and all have a few question marks. Frankly, outside the top 3 last year this draft is probably better for d men. Just stinks to be a team at the top of the draft desperately wanting a top guy.


----------



## Marc the Habs Fan

Magua said:


> Frankly, outside the top 3 last year this draft is probably better for d men.




I would argue that I'd rather have Chabot than any defenceman available this year.


----------



## Magua

Marc the Habs Fan said:


> I would argue that I'd rather have Chabot than any defenceman available this year.




Haha I swear I actually wrote "or Chabot who I really liked last year." But I deleted it because Zboril did go before him and it was easier to just mention the big 3 from last year, who were pretty much their own tier at the time. But yeah, he'd be in the running for first d man this year with his season last year imo. I'm a big fan.


----------



## FinPanda

He was the 1st Finnish D at the WJC so he has been put into situation where he had to be the 1st guy. He didn't have to be in London. Interesting to see how good he can be when he has to be the guy on the small ice though.

Sad to hear he sucks. Though he was a good D, probably not a 1st D, but solid 2nd or 3rd.


----------



## Aceboogie

Tkachuk put up eye popping numbers for a top 5 pick (like top 6-7 for last 10 years) and justifiably gets questioned for being on a top junior line and top OHL team

Juolevi couldnt even muster that good of points on the same stacked line. Seriously this guy should be up around ppg with the team he has. The fact he has some prettty meh stats is extremely concerning. He should have atleast grabbed a generous amounts of secondary assists.

For recent top drafted D his numbers look amongst the worst when you factor in strength of team.

Id have Fabbro and McDavoy over him to be honest. I could see him slip to 13-16 ala Zadorov


----------



## Namikaze Minato

FinPanda said:


> He was the 1st Finnish D at the WJC so he has been put into situation where he had to be the 1st guy. He didn't have to be in London. Interesting to see how good he can be when he has to be the guy on the small ice though.
> 
> Sad to hear he sucks. Though he was a good D, probably not a 1st D, but solid 2nd or 3rd.




maybe the leafs can grab him at 30 or 31 and hunter can work his magic


----------



## JJTT

FinPanda said:


> He was the 1st Finnish D at the WJC so he has been put into situation where he had to be the 1st guy. He didn't have to be in London. Interesting to see how good he can be when he has to be the guy on the small ice though.
> 
> Sad to hear he sucks. Though he was a good D, probably not a 1st D, but solid 2nd or 3rd.




Sucks? Playing smart defense instead of trying to do something fancy is not sucking.

From couple of Memorial Cup games i saw it seemed he wasn't really given an opportunity to put up big numbers. His only job on the PP was to keep the puck in the zone without any real opportunity to shoot, since Knights mostly setup playing the puck from behind the net. On 5vs5 he was always the first guy back defending, instead joining the rush.

His strenght should improve a ton since he missed last summer with surgery. People seem a bit too harsh on his defensive game, which will improve for sure.


----------



## Magua

JJTT said:


> His strenght should improve a ton since he missed last summer with surgery. People seem a bit too harsh on his defensive game, which will improve for sure.




I don't find his defensive game poor. Strength would help in the corners and in front, but he has a good stick. 

And in this age of defending, the ability to calmly transition the puck with controlled exits and entries and the ability to have excellent gap control to _prevent_ controlled entries is a huge part of great defense. No excellent d man in the NHL today exists without those things in his game. Juolevi won't knock people over or any of that because he doesn't have to....he's efficient in his defense and so doesn't do a ton of it. Playing a lot in your own zone with a high compete level =/= great defense.


----------



## BB88

4thlineforlife said:


> Tkachuk put up eye popping numbers for a top 5 pick (like top 6-7 for last 10 years) and justifiably gets questioned for being on a top junior line and top OHL team
> 
> *Juolevi couldnt even muster that good of points on the same stacked line. Seriously this guy should be up around ppg with the team he has. *The fact he has some prettty meh stats is extremely concerning. He should have atleast grabbed a generous amounts of secondary assists.
> 
> For recent top drafted D his numbers look amongst the worst when you factor in strength of team.
> 
> Id have Fabbro and McDavoy over him to be honest. I could see him slip to 13-16 ala Zadorov




Wasn't he that in the playoffs+Memorial??

I watched the finals game last night and agree that their powerplay isn't the easiest place for Juolevi to put up points.

Edit, checked his playoff stats and 

18 games, 14 points, 7 points in 4 Memorial Cup games, 22 games and 21 points.
Juolevi also started the game winning goal play and got assist on that.


----------



## Aceboogie

BB88 said:


> Wasn't he that in the playoffs+Memorial??
> 
> I watched the finals game last night and agree that their powerplay isn't the easiest place for Juolevi to put up points.
> 
> Edit, checked his playoff stats and
> 
> 18 games, 14 points, 7 points in 4 Memorial Cup games, 22 games and 21 points.
> Juolevi also started the game winning goal play and got assist on that.




Pretty small sample size, and not to mention the whole top line ramped up scoring in playoffs. Marner and Tkachuk to near record levels. 14 in 18 is rather dissappointing given the fact it was a points party for his whole team. 14 in 18 is also even a slight ppg decrease from his regular season

It could be the case Marner, Tkachuk, Dvorak pass it so much between them he never gets a 2nd assist but is a great puck mover still. And hes a D so shouldnt be judged solely on points. But for me his numbers are concerning. If you want a potential top pairing or #1 D those numbers have to be really good in junior.


----------



## FinPanda

JJTT said:


> Sucks? Playing smart defense instead of trying to do something fancy is not sucking.
> 
> From couple of Memorial Cup games i saw it seemed he wasn't really given an opportunity to put up big numbers. His only job on the PP was to keep the puck in the zone without any real opportunity to shoot, since Knights mostly setup playing the puck from behind the net. On 5vs5 he was always the first guy back defending, instead joining the rush.
> 
> His strenght should improve a ton since he missed last summer with surgery. People seem a bit too harsh on his defensive game, which will improve for sure.



Yeah I said that because I wanted to hear something where he is good at and not just saying he is bad and just isn't good. You need to be flashy and have a great shot to hear something positive about a player.

I wasn't serious with that "sucks" thing. Thanks for a good post. He has things to work on, but nearly everyone has. Maybe expectations are very high? If he has a healthy summer you never know how good he can be next season.


----------



## Sidney the Kidney

Maybe the Finland thing is also contributing to this, but he reminds me of a better skating Olli Maatta. Both rely more on smarts and positioning than raw strength or size to defend, both aren't necessarily "dynamic" offensively, but again generate offense through smart, efficient puck movement and seeing the ice well.


----------



## BB88

4thlineforlife said:


> Pretty small sample size, and not to mention the whole top line ramped up scoring in playoffs. Marner and Tkachuk to near record levels. 14 in 18 is rather dissappointing given the fact it was a points party for his whole team. 14 in 18 is also even a slight ppg decrease from his regular season
> 
> It could be the case Marner, Tkachuk, Dvorak pass it so much between them he never gets a 2nd assist but is a great puck mover still. And hes a D so shouldnt be judged solely on points. But for me his numbers are concerning. If you want a potential top pairing or #1 D those numbers have to be really good in junior.




You just complained about him not being ppg and when he was it isnt good enough?
Small sample size and the team ranked up.

Juolevi was a rookie in the OHL/Na, he missed the offseason with knee injury and put up 42 points, I wouldn't say that's bad.
Let's see how he does next year with healthy offseason and changes in the lineup before worrying about that?

I watched their pp and after Juolevi passed the puck it often used to follow up a passing play of 3 players before shooting the puck.



Sidney the Kidney said:


> Maybe the Finland thing is also contributing to this, but he reminds me of a better skating Olli Maatta. Both rely more on smarts and positioning than raw strength or size to defend, both aren't necessarily "dynamic" offensively, but again generate offense through smart, efficient puck movement and seeing the ice well.




I've been thinking he is better version of Maatta and sadly with Maattas injuries could/should end up as quite a lot better than him.


----------



## supermann_98

4thlineforlife said:


> Tkachuk put up eye popping numbers for a top 5 pick (like top 6-7 for last 10 years) and justifiably gets questioned for being on a top junior line and top OHL team
> 
> Juolevi couldnt even muster that good of points on the same stacked line. Seriously this guy should be up around ppg with the team he has. The fact he has some prettty meh stats is extremely concerning. He should have atleast grabbed a generous amounts of secondary assists.
> 
> For recent top drafted D his numbers look amongst the worst when you factor in strength of team.
> 
> Id have Fabbro and McDavoy over him to be honest. I could see him slip to 13-16 ala Zadorov




Yeah his numbers should me much better even by accident.

Personally I like Sergachev as the #1D in this draft, but Fabbro in the u18's reeeally impressed me


----------



## Canucks LB

Every game I have seen him play, I basically see vlasic / Hamhuis clone.

Which imo is worth a top 6 pick imo


----------



## Vide

Lucbourdon said:


> Every game I have seen him play, I basically see vlasic / Hamhuis clone.
> 
> Which imo is worth a top 6 pick imo




I agree. I don't see why he can't turn into that type of defenseman. Never going to be that high-scoring flashy D but he'll be a very valuable piece for whichever team selects him nonetheless.

I take him over Chychrun. It's between Sergachev, Juolevi and Bean for top defenseman for me. Second tier is Chychrun, Fabbro and McAvoy.


----------



## Gsus

It's funny that he is consided to be even a top5 pick in the draft, yet the discussion here say that he's basically a peace of ****.

His numbers aren't that bad. 0.74 PPG which is team 1st and league 9th best. He doesn't play good defense or what is it? I know youtube highlights (+WJC + MC) are a small sample size but his smarts are pretty high. He isn't flashy enough? Considering this was his rookie season in North America. Is this common for not so offensive Dman prospects to be judged as it seems?


----------



## Brewsky

sydion said:


> I agree. I don't see why he can't turn into that type of defenseman. Never going to be that high-scoring flashy D but he'll be a very valuable piece for whichever team selects him nonetheless.
> 
> I take him over Chychrun. It's between Sergachev, Juolevi and Bean for top defenseman for me. *Second tier* is *Chychrun*, Fabbro and McAvoy.




Wow if this is what most people think about Chychrun, they are in for a surprise in a couple of years from now.


----------



## LV*

Brewsky said:


> Wow if this is what most people think about Chychrun, they are in for a surprise in a couple of years from now.




Chychrun will be the best dman from this draft


----------



## McMozesmadness

I think the thing that has most excited is just how much room for growth there still is. 

Kid is unreal now, yet very raw. He has OEL potential IMO.


----------



## Male75FromFinland

Juolevi is poor man`s Lidstrom.

He might end up being top 3 player from this draft


----------



## Vide

Brewsky said:


> Wow if this is what most people think about Chychrun, they are in for a surprise in a couple of years from now.




We will see. I've watched Chychrun since minor midget and always been a fan but this year was very disappointing. I still think he can be a good #2 or great #3 but I rather take my chances with the other guys I mentioned. 

Juolevi very safe pick, should end up as Vlasic/Hamhuis type D. Sergachev a bit risky but the best bet to be a #1D. Bean I see as an OEL type defenseman. It's easier to teach defense than the offensive capabilities Bean has.

I see Chychrun more as a Nurse type prospect. Very athletic, tough and hard-working but might not have the hockey IQ to be an impact player on both ends of the ice. I could be wrong but that's how I see it right now.


----------



## suddeninterest

As of right now he doesn't have the shot to be a game breaking offensive #1. I see his ceiling as a Brodie, great skating and defence, offensively capable but not game breaking. I don't see him scoring 20+ goals, more like 5-10 with 35 assists.


----------



## IFK

suddeninterest said:


> As of right now he doesn't have the shot to be a game breaking offensive #1. I see his ceiling as a Brodie, great skating and defence, offensively capable but not game breaking. I don't see him scoring 20+ goals, more like 5-10 with 35 assists.




I don't know who to compare him, but i really agree those points. I don't see him score 20+ goals. But i see his ceiling top pair D.


----------



## Qubax

How would a Vlasic or TJ Brodie comparison be?


----------



## Gsus

Points wise, I could see him as the guy with 10goals and 30-40 assists per season. But that would be great for him, given that his thing is the smarts.


----------



## PrinceOfPucks

I can see the Canucks drafting him at 5 and I wouldn't lose any sleep on it. 

This is the type of Dman that can play 25 minutes a night because his skating and iq is off the charts. 

Dont count out the fact that he is a winner as well from WJC to Mem Cup.


----------



## M2Beezy

PrinceOfPucks said:


> I can see the Canucks drafting him at 5 and I wouldn't lose any sleep on it.
> 
> This is the type of Dman that can play 25 minutes a night because his skating and iq is off the charts.
> 
> Dont count out the fact that he is a winner as well from WJC to Mem Cup.




Agreed. Well almost agreed. I think Juol will be the dman gem of the draft but i still feel Dubois will be the BPA at 5 but Juol a close 6


----------



## puckfan13

Brodie is much more active in the play and in motion it seems, but both can hit the long range missile pass right on the tape. I do not mind the Vlasic one, especially since they both don't have great shots but excellent passing.


----------



## Cupless44

PrinceOfPucks said:


> I can see the Canucks drafting him at 5 and I wouldn't lose any sleep on it.
> 
> This is the type of Dman that can play 25 minutes a night because his skating and iq is off the charts.
> 
> Dont count out the fact that he is a winner as well from WJC to Mem Cup.




If Benning takes him over Dubois I'm done with this team until he is fired.


----------



## tfong

sydion said:


> I agree. I don't see why he can't turn into that type of defenseman. Never going to be that high-scoring flashy D but he'll be a very valuable piece for whichever team selects him nonetheless.
> 
> I take him over Chychrun. It's between Sergachev, Juolevi and Bean for top defenseman for me. Second tier is Chychrun, Fabbro and McAvoy.




Where is Dineen????


----------



## Vide

tfong said:


> Where is Dineen????




Dineen could probably be in that second tier too, or just a step below.


----------



## Eternalize

Cupless44 said:


> If Benning takes him over Dubois I'm done with this team until he is fired.




Agree 100%. Selecting Juolevi over Tkachuk/Dubois would be the icing on the cake of an absolutely horrendous season. Can't even describe how angry i would be.


----------



## IFK

Eternalize said:


> Agree 100%. Selecting Juolevi over Tkachuk/Dubois would be the icing on the cake of an absolutely horrendous season. Can't even describe how angry i would be.




It's not impossible that Edmonton pick Juolevi in 4th.


----------



## Eternalize

IFK said:


> It's not impossible that Edmonton pick Juolevi in 4th.




Might not be impossible, but not sure if it's likely. People keeps repeating that the Oilers could/should pick a defenseman with their pick, but it would be a huge mistake IMO. Edmonton might need defence more than anything else right now, but they could also have use of a big forward that can score while also playing a heavy game, because they don't really have that type of player right now. I could see Tkachuk being a great fit with McDavid down the road.

If i were the Oilers, i would keep McDavid, Hall and Draisaitl, and trade RNH, Eberle and Yakupov (depending on what you can get for him) to acquire the defenseman/men that they need. If they can't get anything good for Yakupov, they keep him for another season trying to boost his value.

A core consisting of 4 great forwards in McDavid, Hall, Draisaitl, Dubois/Tkachuk would be all that they need up front going forward. Outside of those guys up front, all that they need are forwards that can simply fill their roles on the team. They definitely have the trade pieces to acquire at least 1 great defenseman, maybe 2. So no reason to go for Juolevi at 4th IMO, who isn't the 4th best player in the draft.


----------



## lanky

Eternalize said:


> So no reason to go for Juolevi at 4th IMO, who isn't the 4th best player in the draft.




Don't see it as a possibility. Chiarelli was interviewed at the Memorial Cup about Juolevi specifically. He changed the topic to Tkachuk pretty quickly.


----------



## WTFMAN99

Gino Reda ‏@GinoRedaTSN 16m16 minutes ago
News from NHL Combine. While Patrik Laine & Jesse Puljujarvi were medically exempt, Olli Juolevi just "declined to participate" @TSNHockey


----------



## Esko6

WTFMAN99 said:


> Gino Reda ‏@GinoRedaTSN 16m16 minutes ago
> News from NHL Combine. While Patrik Laine & Jesse Puljujarvi were medically exempt, Olli Juolevi just "declined to participate" @TSNHockey




In what? Everything at the combine?


----------



## FinPanda

Way to make him look bad. I heard all the Knights declined to participate?


----------



## Goose of Reason

He just finished a deep tournament run, he's probably still recovering and wouldn't be able to do his best at the trials. No big deal at all, he's still interviewing.


----------



## 93LEAFS

FinPanda said:


> Way to make him look bad. I heard all the Knights declined to participate?



I know Parsons, Tkachuk, Jones and Juolevi declined. I don't think Cliff Pu or Mete participated, but I don't know for sure. Pu and Mete probably had more incentive to, as they are further down.


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

WTFMAN99 said:


> Gino Reda ‏@GinoRedaTSN 16m16 minutes ago
> News from NHL Combine. While Patrik Laine & Jesse Puljujarvi were medically exempt, Olli Juolevi just "declined to participate" @TSNHockey




I don't think any of the Knights did the fitness testing. Their season ended a week ago.

Tkachuk, Parsons, and Jones didn't do it. I'm not sure about Pu and Mete.


----------



## Sens of Anarchy

No issues with non participation from the Knights. No time to switch gears and prepare. Why should they?


----------



## Flames Draft Watcher

Qubax said:


> How would a Vlasic or TJ Brodie comparison be?




Brodie's game is based around his incredible skating more than Juolevi's is. Brodie is more likely to retrieve the puck in the corner, spin off the forechecker and then lead the rush himself. Juolevi is more likely to retrieve the puck in the corner and then immediately outlet it to the best option. Brodie's offensive game is based more off the rush, leading the rush, joining the rush. Juolevi has a higher powerplay upside IMO because his passing and decision making on the powerplay is crisp and efficient. I think Juolevi can be a PP QB. Both don't have bomb point shots. Both are really good with their sticks with poke checking. Juolevi tends to block more shots and get his body in the way more. Neither is really physical although Brodie has the strength to hold his own in corner battles.


----------



## TruGr1t

UsernameWasTaken said:


> Tkachuk, Parsons, and Jones didn't do it. I'm not sure about Pu and Mete.




Wasn't Tkachuk also medical? High-ankle sprain or some such?


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

Fictional Realism said:


> Wasn't Tkachuk also medical? High-ankle sprain or some such?




Yah. It was also that. But I doubt he would have done it in any event.


----------



## Six Assets

Although I am very high on him, he isn't who the Oilers should take at #4. Take the future top line winger in Tkachuk and trade RNH/Eberle/Yak for defence.


----------



## M2Beezy

Vikingstrand said:


> Although I am very high on him, he isn't who the Oilers should take at #4. Take the future top line winger in Tkachuk and trade RNH/Eberle/Yak for defence.




Agreed from canucks fan point of view too im very high on Juol but would still prefer the left over of Tkachuck/Dubois but could see in the future Juol being a allstar #1 dman


----------



## Puckluck

According to McKenzie: "Juolevi, who had nine of 10 votes as a top-10 prospect".


----------



## Tkachuk Norris

I listened to the McKeens head scout. And he said this guy should be the third or fourth best player in this draft. His poise, skating, defensive abilities are all top teir. He compared him to Lidstrom. He lulls you to sleep because he never puts himself out of possession. And he never makes a mistake. You just don't notice him out there unless you watch him. Even though he's shutting the other teams best player down. 

Then he made the point that he couldn't remember the last time a draft eligible kid was the best defensman in the WJC all the way to a championship.


----------



## Cupless44

snipetype said:


> I listened to the McKeens head scout. And he said this guy should be the third or fourth best player in this draft. His poise, skating, defensive abilities are all top teir. He compared him to Lidstrom. He lulls you to sleep because he never puts himself out of possession. And he never makes a mistake. You just don't notice him out there unless you watch him. Even though he's shutting the other teams best player down.
> 
> Then he made the point that he couldn't remember the last time a draft eligible kid was the best defensman in the WJC all the way to a championship.




It can't be all about IQ and poise, he is skinny, doesn't play physical, doesn't put up a lot of points on an offensive juggernaut. Just not the reward you want after a miserable season and first top 5 draft pick of this century for the Canucks.


----------



## Curufinwe

Cupless44 said:


> It can't be all about IQ and poise, he is skinny, doesn't play physical, doesn't put up a lot of points on an offensive juggernaut. Just not the reward you want after a miserable season and first top 5 draft pick of this century for the Canucks.




You should go back and see how skinny Duncan Keith was when he was drafted, and Juolevi has a couple of inches on him.

I think he'd be a solid pick at #5.


----------



## Hagged

Curufinwe said:


> You should go back and see how skinny Duncan Keith was when he was drafted, and Juolevi has a couple of inches on him.
> 
> I think he'd be a solid pick at #5.




Only if he becomes Keith/LidstrÃ¶m. And I wouldn't bet on it. Thinking more of a Maatta without the misfortunes.


----------



## IFK

Cupless44 said:


> It can't be all about IQ and poise, he is skinny, doesn't play physical, doesn't put up a lot of points on an offensive juggernaut. Just not the reward you want after a miserable season and first top 5 draft pick of this century for the Canucks.




Juolevi is one if not the best defenders what ever have come to Finland and i have watch him to 14-15 years old.

Juolevi didn't get training in summer which effect a lot, he don't have big body like Serg and Chyc which help they dominate juniors, Juolevi have to use his skills, positioning and his smartness. Juolevi was second best defender in WJC and only 17 years old, also broke easily older record points under 18 years old. Doesn't matter what is your opinion is, Juolevi is just best and he skill level is so high and ceiling is 1st D who can play 25 minutes every game.

Serg and Chyc suck U18 and Juolevi was 5 months before one of the best all time in WJC and best in his age in WJC. I seem him a lot just like Vatanen, MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤, Ristolainen on young age etc. and he is maybe best of them all and his ceiling is very high. McKenzie say he is best all around D and that means most cause best's are, he said that he is very good in every where in the ice. Look his WJC highlights (he has also there second best assists in all time only 17 years old) against much older top end prospects. I think i am more right this. He need more strength but he have very good height and can still crow, but that is only positive thing cause he is so good, but when he get strength, he can use his body more. Only thing which is only thing he have improve is his shot, it's good and very accurate, but it's not enough hard, but that thing changes also when he get more muscle. Do you understand that all around defenders are best ranked defenders and also most valued in NHL. Like Doughty, OEL, Weber, Suter, Keith etc.

Also if you watch ranking consensus, again, Juolevi is still first and own his own for D's: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1854770418


----------



## BB88

Curufinwe said:


> You should go back and see how skinny Duncan Keith was when he was drafted, and Juolevi has a couple of inches on him.
> 
> I think he'd be a solid pick at #5.




Weight being the biggest issue with x prospect should be a good sign, weight is easy to add, IQ/Skating not so.
Juolevi just needs some time to add weight, but can't wait to see what he can do this offseason as he should be healthy.



Hagged said:


> Only if he becomes Keith/LidstrÃ¶m. And I wouldn't bet on it. Thinking more of a Maatta without the misfortunes.




I like Juolevis skating more.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Scouts seem in love with him, and really are relying on him bulking up. Very smart player, but rarely absolutely wowed me over many watchings. But considering how scouts talk about him, I feel he may be a guy who needs to be watched closely live over many viewings to truly appreciate. I thought he could be pressured on small ice at points, and really excelled when the WJC gave him alot of space, but he does have the IQ to adapt. I used to say he was the safest of the 3 OHL d, but had the lowest ceiling. I still agree with the safest, starting to question the lowest ceiling though. Starting to think it could be just as high as Sergachev or Chychrun.


----------



## BB88

93LEAFS said:


> Scouts seem in love with him, and really are relying on him bulking up. Very smart player, but rarely absolutely wowed me over many watchings. But considering how scouts talk about him, I feel he may be a guy who needs to be watched closely live over many viewings to truly appreciate. I thought he could be pressured on small ice at points, and really excelled when the WJC gave him alot of space, but he does have the IQ to adapt. I used to say he was the safest of the 3 OHL d, but had the lowest ceiling. I still agree with the safest, starting to question the lowest ceiling though. Starting to think it could be just as high as Sergachev or Chychrun.




Was listening to Kirk Luedeke talk about these prospects and he feels Chychrun has a high floor but a low ceiling compared to these guys.

I was able to watch Juolevi during his last games, and I tried to pay attention to small plays, and he seems to be damm smart, he makes smart plays, knows where the play is going and takes the right lane before the play even happens and nothing dangerous rarely happens.

But it's weird to see scouts being so high on him when you read the HF and see so many negative comments about his game.


----------



## 93LEAFS

BB88 said:


> *Was listening to Kirk Luedeke talk about these prospects and he feels Chychrun has a high floor but a low ceiling compared to these guys.*
> 
> I was able to watch Juolevi during his last games, and I tried to pay attention to small plays, and he seems to be damm smart, he makes smart plays, knows where the play is going and takes the right lane before the play even happens and nothing dangerous rarely happens.
> 
> But it's weird to see scouts being so high on him when you read the HF and see so many negative comments about his game.



I agree Chychrun probably has a high floor, but his ceiling is insanely high, its just a much bigger risk he reaches it. It really comes down to if you think his issues this year were just due to his shoulder and an unlucky stretch, or if you believe his hockey IQ is low. I think its more likely to be the former than the latter, and his IQ is more inline with what he showed at 16, and he is a bit of a victim of over-scouting. Due to this, I think he has a very high ceiling, but if you disagree on his hockey IQ I can see where Luedeke is coming from. Its the main reason I think Chych still goes top 10, as it only takes one GM/Scouting Director/staff with my line of thinking for him to be valued fairly highly.


----------



## BB88

93LEAFS said:


> I agree Chychrun probably has a high floor, but his ceiling is insanely high, its just a much bigger risk he reaches it. It really comes down to if you think his issues this year were just due to his shoulder and an unlucky stretch, or if you believe his hockey IQ is low. I think its more likely to be the former than the latter, and his IQ is more inline with what he showed at 16, and he is a bit of a victim of over-scouting. Due to this, I think he has a very high ceiling, but if you disagree on his hockey IQ I can see where Luedeke is coming from. Its the main reason I think Chych still goes top 10, as it only takes one GM/Scouting Director/staff with my line of thinking for him to be valued fairly highly.




The way Kirk talked about him it had nothing to do with his shoulder injury.
It was questions around his IQ/visio/ instincts, him being too passive in certain plays and how Chychrun-Fabbro pairing worked at the U18.

http://bigbadblog.weei.com/sports/b...-weighs-in-on-bruins-2015-picks-a-year-later/

17:00.

More talk about these top D-prospects by Kirk with Hagg/Murphy a bit earlier.
http://www.csnne.com/boston-bruins/podcast-bruins-defenseman-future-could-be-there-taking


----------



## Tkachuk Norris

I was against the Flames drafting this guy. But if he becomes another Brodie... Yeah I think we could use another Brodie


----------



## Hokinaittii




----------



## TT1

great pick Nucks, you won't regret it


----------



## PavelBrendl

I'm at work so I can't watch, but Button's comments on the TSN draft feed make this kid sound like the second coming of Lidstrom.


----------



## Face Of Bear

Was never too high on this kid, hopefully for Nucks fans this doesn't turn out to be another Virtanen pick


----------



## Breakers

Shocking pick by Vancouver

But a very solid pick, Most people had him as the top D-man

Looks like a 2 year project to fill out that frame.


----------



## JerkChicken

One note about Juolevi is that he can go straight to the AHL next year. He doesn't have to go the traditional 'NHL or Junior only' route, as he's on loan from Europe. (Or something to that effect)


----------



## Virtanen2Horvat

Juolevi - Tanev 
Hutton - Gudbranson 
Edler - Tryamkin

for the future.


----------



## Red Piller

Face Of Bear said:


> Was never too high on this kid, hopefully for Nucks fans this doesn't turn out to be another Virtanen pick




Jake Virtanen is still really young. Are you writing him off already? Columbus really ****ed us by taking PLD so this is what we ended up with. Hope he develops into a 45 to 50 point top 2 puck mover.


----------



## Red Piller

Virtanen2Horvat said:


> Juolevi - Tanev
> Hutton - Gudbranson
> Edler - Tryamkin
> 
> for the future.




word. Pretty balanced defense if Juo and Tryamkin develop into good pros


----------



## Virtanen2Horvat

Juolevi is the first Dman I would have gone with so Benning did well with drafting a Dman, I just wanted a forward.


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

Well, I guess if JB really wants a D at #5, at least he got the best one


----------



## Tobi Wan Kenobi

Virtanen2Horvat said:


> Juolevi - Tanev
> Hutton - Gudbranson
> Edler - Tryamkin
> 
> for the future.




Juolevi Tanev
Hutton Gudbranson
Tryamkin Stecher/Subban


----------



## BigTruzz

He could go down as the best dman in Canucks history. Lot's of Canucks fans overreacting as usual. His hockey IQ is off the charts, just needs another 1/2 years to get stronger and fill out.


----------



## Zombotron

JerkChicken said:


> One note about Juolevi is that he can go straight to the AHL next year. He doesn't have to go the traditional 'NHL or Junior only' route, as he's on loan from Europe. (Or something to that effect)




The silver lining


----------



## Robongo01

JerkChicken said:


> One note about Juolevi is that he can go straight to the AHL next year. He doesn't have to go the traditional 'NHL or Junior only' route, as he's on loan from Europe. (Or something to that effect)




Has this been confirmed? That's awesome if true


----------



## BoHorvat 53

Face Of Bear said:


> Was never too high on this kid, hopefully for Nucks fans this doesn't turn out to be another Virtanen pick




Except for the fact that they're 2 totally different fundamentally different players. Juolevi's hockey IQ alone likely makes him project as a top-4 d with a floor of a #3, Virtanen's floor is bottom 6. 

Really warming up to the pick, Maatta before his health issues is a very good comp imo.


----------



## Nalyd Psycho

Not a bad pick, safe, bland and boring, but not bad.


----------



## The Winter Soldier

I had him as my best D man in the draft. A real good pick by the Canucks. This type of D man makes teams better.


----------



## Sarcastic

The only people that hate this pick are radical Canuck fans.


----------



## CashMash

Face Of Bear said:


> Was never too high on this kid, hopefully for Nucks fans this doesn't turn out to be another Virtanen pick




Juolevi is known for his really high hockey IQ, doubt he ends up anything like Virtanen at all. Virtanen's problem is that he is dumb as a brick.


----------



## Canucks LB

Best d man in the draft. But man i wanted tkachuk


----------



## ProstheticConscience

Sarcastic said:


> The only people that hate this pick are radical Canuck fans.




Or people who saw Tkachuk still sitting there.



CashMash said:


> Juolevi is known for his really high hockey IQ, doubt he ends up anything like Virtanen at all. Virtanen's problem is that he is dumb as a brick.




I like to talk about players I don't watch too. That makes us both really cool people.


----------



## TT1

Nalyd Psycho said:


> Not a bad pick, safe, bland and boring, but not bad.




you'll be happy once he starts dominating for you guys


----------



## Tkachuk Norris

He's a really good skater. Rarely makes mistakes. And at the WJC and Mem Cup I thought he was better than Tkachuk. Very poised. Good pick.


----------



## vcanuck

this is this drafts OEL/Karlsson. im dead serious with this comparison. 

people making fun of JB or saying this is a bad pick have no clue what their talking about. 

the Canucks are building from the GK out. 

D: Stetcher, Subban, Joulevi, Tryamkin, Hutton, Pedan, Gudbranson, Edler, Tanev
GK: Demko, Garteig, Markstrom
F: Boeser, Horvat, Virtanen

to me, it looks like the D and GK are set, we just need impactful forwards.


----------



## King In The North

I would've been okay with Juolevi with this pick. It's not a bad Benning move, just absolutely floored he passed on Tkachuk.


----------



## ginner classic

snipetype said:


> He's a really good skater. Rarely makes mistakes. And at the WJC and Mem Cup I thought he was better than Tkachuk. *Very poised *. Good pick.




Better or worse than Martin Skoula?


----------



## Canucks LB

If he tops off at Dan Hamhuis or Vlasic, I would say this pick is a damn good choice.

If he does not, passing on tkachuk is a big problem.


----------



## BoHorvat 53

Lucbourdon said:


> If he tops off at Dan Hamhuis or Vlasic, I would say this pick is a damn good choice.
> 
> If he does not, passing on tkachuk is a big problem.




His IQ alone IMO will get him there. Not worried.


----------



## CanuckGame39

I'm extremely happy with this pick. He is going to be a rock for a long time for us. 

Our defence is looking great moving forward.


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

CanuckGame39 said:


> I'm extremely happy with this pick. He is going to be a rock for a long time for us.
> 
> Our defence is looking great moving forward.




You should be very happy. He was one of my favourite Knights this past season. I think he's a great choice!


----------



## KahunaBaby

Sarcastic said:


> The only people that hate this pick are radical Canuck fans.




Lol, no wonder we only pick D-man in the 1st round every 10 years.

God this team needs this player in the worse way it's not even funny.


----------



## lawrence

CashMash said:


> Juolevi is known for his really high hockey IQ, doubt he ends up anything like Virtanen at all. *Virtanen's problem is that he is dumb as a brick*.




....????? not sure what you are talking about. I really don't know what the hell you are talking, we are confused, everyone that's seem him play regularly will be confused. 

oh right, hfboards.com standard, it's hard wired into the brains of Canuck haters that Virtanen is dumb as a brick despite it being not true.

Anyways, happy with this pick. If Benning knows his stuff, then they made the right choice. Tkachuk would have been nice, but if he sees something Juolevi then so be it.


----------



## Virtanen2Horvat

vcanuck said:


> this is this drafts OEL/Karlsson. im dead serious with this comparison.
> 
> people making fun of JB or saying this is a bad pick have no clue what their talking about.
> 
> the Canucks are building from the GK out.
> 
> D: Stetcher, Subban, Joulevi, Tryamkin, Hutton, Pedan, Gudbranson, Edler, Tanev
> GK: Demko, Garteig, Markstrom
> F: Boeser, Horvat, Virtanen
> 
> to me, it looks like the D and GK are set, we just need impactful forwards.




I agree with you, its going to be Demko and Markstrom going forward. Next year they need some good forwards and draft Dmen in the later rounds. They need to pack up in 2017. I think we will be in the 15-20 range picking. I hope Benning is smart enough to leave the picks alone too and actually add.


----------



## Canucks LB

The guy has been a standout everywhere he has played, His hockey IQ is downright incredible, I think passing on tkachuk sucks, but this is not virtanen 2.0, This guy is gonna be a #1/2 D-man, not to mention the kid can really skate, and moves the puck up the ice quickly.

Vlasic / Hamhuis 2.0


----------



## PrinceOfPucks

Love this pick. 

His absolute ceiling I'd Scott Neidermeyer esque. Hockey IQ is off the charts. 

Vancouver had serious question marks about Tkachuks skating . I think tkachcuk will be a good 20 goals 35 assists kind of player but Juolevi is a top pairing dmen. Those are way more valuable than wingers. Just look at the high demands for trade value that Dmen are demanding. 

Brent Sutter - coach of Red Dear Rebels who played London and Juolevi in the Mem Cup just said ..

' This guy is impossible to forecheck"


----------



## Canucks LB

I think the fact that his hockey IQ is so good is the reason he kept on climbing up and up, this guy has all the tools to be a standout, if he somehow gets an offensive increase in his game, watch out.


----------



## PrinceOfPucks

If anyone doesn't love this pick they should really watch the World Jr's again from.last December. 

Tons of Finlands championship offense or offensive pressure was started or instigated by Juolevis vision and skating. 

Finland was also able to not get clobbered by heavy forechekcing teams like Canada because the dump and chase is useless vs Juolevi.


----------



## He

Would've rather had Tkachuk at 5th, but Juolevi definitely has the ability to be a 1st pairing defenseman. If he could follow a development path similar to someone like a Hampus Lindholm then I'd say Vancouver did pretty well.


----------



## Sarcastic

Vancouver fans will run this kid out of town in a couple years to no fault of his own.


----------



## PrinceOfPucks

Sarcastic said:


> Vancouver fans will run this kid out of town in a couple years to no fault of his own.




Let's hope he doesn't have Rick Nash syndrome and can actually take pressure.


----------



## SelltheTeamFrancesco

He said:


> Would've rather had Tkachuk at 5th, but Juolevi definitely has the ability to be a 1st pairing defenseman. If he could follow a development path similar to someone like a Hampus Lindholm then I'd say Vancouver did pretty well.




First thing I thought was hampus lindholm when they drafted him.He compares himself to OEL.



Also on unrelated note I hate sportsnets nhl draft tsn was so much better


----------



## Gstank

Backend is now set for at least 5 years. Juolevi, Hutton, Tanev, Gudbranson.

The Oilers STILLneed a defensemen............. Seriously it's like it's rocket science over in Edmonton


----------



## vdublu

Gstank said:


> Backend is now set for at least 5 years. Juolevi, Hutton, Tanev, Gudbranson.
> 
> The Oilers STILLneed a defensemen............. Seriously it's like it's rocket science over in Edmonton




Agree...however how can you pass on Jesse Puljujarvi.


----------



## VictoriaJetsFan

Vancouver did very well for themselves today.


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

vdublu said:


> Agree...however how can you pass on Jesse Puljujarvi.




If you're Edmonton, I think you can


----------



## Virtanen2Horvat

He said:


> Would've rather had Tkachuk at 5th, but Juolevi definitely has the ability to be a 1st pairing defenseman. If he could follow a development path similar to someone like a Hampus Lindholm then I'd say Vancouver did pretty well.






matsin47 said:


> First thing I thought was hampus lindholm when they drafted him.He compares himself to OEL.
> 
> 
> 
> Also on unrelated note I hate sportsnets nhl draft tsn was so much better




Hammer/Lindholm/Vlasic comes to mind.


----------



## Rebuilt

BKVCMU said:


> If you're Edmonton, *I think you can*




Well , you thought wrong, now didnt you?


----------



## Smeagoal

BKVCMU said:


> If you're Edmonton, I think you can




No you can't. If JP is on the board, you take him. EDM made the right choice and chose the BPA.


----------



## keslerburrows

How does he compare to top defensemen in drafts prior to this year? Provorov for example?


----------



## PrinceOfPucks

I agree with a lot of the scouting reports that stylistically compare him to Ryan Suter


----------



## PrinceOfPucks

keslerburrows said:


> How does he compare to top defensemen in drafts prior to this year? Provorov for example?




If you read the thread, before the Canucks chose him, posters were saying he is better than provorov. 

Comparisons to Suter, Vlasic


----------



## Canucks LB

PrinceOfPucks said:


> I agree with a lot of the scouting reports that stylistically compare him to Ryan Suter




Ryan suter is another good comparison, forgot entirely about him


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

Sarcastic said:


> Vancouver fans will run this kid out of town in a couple years to no fault of his own.




Why?


----------



## CorgisPer60

keslerburrows said:


> How does he compare to top defensemen in drafts prior to this year? Provorov for example?




Last year was an incredible year for defenseman. This year, not so much. Juolevi has a #2 ceiling in him.


----------



## Sarcastic

UsernameWasTaken said:


> Why?




Because it will probably take him longer to get established as a solid player than Tkachuk because of position and people will get unreasonably frustrated about it. 

I think he's fine, just maybe not the right city.


----------



## Ainec

Since the lockout here are the top selected Ds. If a defenseman was taken first overall I will add the 2nd defenseman taken in the same draft.

2005 - *Brian Lee 9th overall*
2006 - Erik Johnson 1st overall, *Ty Wishart 16th overall*
2007 - *Thomas Hickey 4th overall*
2008 - said to be the most stacked draft for D throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2009 - defenseman battling for 1st overall throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2010 - *Erik Gudbranson 3rd overall*
2011 - *Adam Larsson 4th overall*
2012 - said to be the most stacked draft for D throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2013 - defenseman battling for 1st overall throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2014 - Aaron Ekblad 1st overall, *Haydn Fleury 7th overall*
2015 - *Noah Hanifin 5th overall*
2016 - *Olli Juolevi 5th overall*

So given the history of the last 11 years. Knowing this draft not hyped up as a dmen draft as it were in 2008 and 2012, nor was there a dmen contending for 1st overall at any point during the draft year as it were in 2006, 2009, 2013 we're looking at Juolevi being somewhere here:

*Brian Lee
Ty Wishart
Thomas Hickey
Erik Gudbranson
Adam Larsson
Haydn Fleury
Noah Hanifin*

But where do you guys see him? I think he's going to be in the range of Haydn Fleury and Noah Hanifin (optimistic and doubtful me given it was a Benning pick)


----------



## Zarzh

Sarcastic said:


> Because it will probably take him longer to get established as a solid player than Tkachuk because of position and people will get unreasonably frustrated about it.
> 
> I think he's fine, just maybe not the right city.




And the expectation that a top five pick becomes a #1 defenseman. Which is unlikely.


----------



## D0ctorCool

Jesus Christ... I must be the only guy in this thread that hates this pick.


----------



## Bowie Horvat

Zarzh said:


> And the expectation that a top five pick becomes a #1 defenseman. Which is unlikely.




A top 2/2.5 will be fine


----------



## Phenomenon13

Hutton said:


> Since the lockout here are the top selected Ds. If a defenseman was taken first overall I will add the 2nd defenseman taken in the same draft.
> 
> 2005 - *Brian Lee 9th overall*
> 2006 - Erik Johnson 1st overall, *Ty Wishart 16th overall*
> 2007 - *Thomas Hickey 4th overall*
> 2008 - said to be the most stacked draft for D throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
> 2009 - defenseman battling for 1st overall throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
> 2010 - *Erik Gudbranson 3rd overall*
> 2011 - *Adam Larsson 4th overall*
> 2012 - said to be the most stacked draft for D throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
> 2013 - defenseman battling for 1st overall throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
> 2014 - Aaron Ekblad 1st overall, *Haydn Fleury 7th overall*
> 2015 - *Noah Hanifin 5th overall*
> 2016 - *Olli Juolevi 5th overall*
> 
> So given the history of the last 11 years. Knowing this draft not hyped up as a dmen draft as it were in 2008 and 2012, nor was there a dmen contending for 1st overall at any point during the draft year as it were in 2006, 2009, 2013 we're looking at Juolevi being somewhere here:
> 
> *Brian Lee
> Ty Wishart
> Thomas Hickey
> Erik Gudbranson
> Adam Larsson
> Haydn Fleury
> Noah Hanifin*
> 
> But where do you guys see him? I think he's going to be in the range of Haydn Fleury and Noah Hanifin (optimistic and doubtful me given it was a Benning pick)




Adam Larsson was in contention for first overall that year. 
Why are you taking out defenseman in certain draft years? Doesn't that skew the data? The sample size is small enough as it is. Should just extrapolate the data from all comparable defenseman in the draft range: 3-7 or first defenseman taken. 

Im really high on Juolevi but I think you underrate Adam Larsson if you think Fleury is going to be above him.


----------



## Better Call Maul

snipetype said:


> I listened to the McKeens head scout. And he said this guy should be the third or fourth best player in this draft. His poise, skating, defensive abilities are all top teir. He compared him to Lidstrom. He lulls you to sleep because he never puts himself out of possession. And he never makes a mistake. You just don't notice him out there unless you watch him. Even though he's shutting the other teams best player down.
> 
> Then he made the point that he couldn't remember the last time a draft eligible kid was the best defensman in the WJC all the way to a championship.




I remember similar things said about another London Knight Fin Defenseman not so long ago.


----------



## Canucks LB

Chris McKinlay said:


> Jesus Christ... I must be the only guy in this thread that hates this pick.




Hard to hate a guy who is at worst a #3 d-man.

His hockey IQ is off the charts


----------



## nostalrius

matsin47 said:


> He compares himself to OEL.




And notes Shea Weber as his favourite player.


----------



## CashMash

ProstheticConscience said:


> Or people who saw Tkachuk still sitting there.
> 
> 
> 
> *I like to talk about players I don't watch too. That makes us both really cool people.*




Except for the fact that I have seen Virtanen. Didn't look like an impact player on the American OR the international ice. He made so many mistakes and had a bad temperament about it too.


----------



## CashMash

Honour Over Glory said:


> I remember similar things said about another London Knight Fin Defenseman not so long ago.




What's your point? If you mean there is a problem with MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤, having followed him for a while now, aside from his skating, he used to be absolutely stellar. His development looks to have taken a hit due to his injuries, as he no longer looks as confident as he used to. He still has a high hockey-iq, but whether or not he will reach his potential due to the numerous problems he has had remains to be seen. Juolevi is also a faster skater.


----------



## leaflover

Nice pick.
In a few years they'll be able to put any other kind of d-man alongside Juolevi and he'll be a good fit.


----------



## D0ctorCool

Lucbourdon said:


> Hard to hate a guy who is at worst a #3 d-man.
> 
> His hockey IQ is off the charts




Fine. Where was the option to vote for him on our polls? He was left off. Nobody questioned it. Now all of a sudden, this pick makes sense and was the right thing to do. Sounds like revisionist history to me. I hope Juolevi proves me wrong, but I'm just not feeling this pick.


----------



## Leon Draisaitl

Solid pick by Vancouver.

This kid's hockey IQ is absolutely insane. I see him having a Lindholm-esque progression.


----------



## Derp Kassian

Sarcastic said:


> Because it will probably take him longer to get established as a solid player than Tkachuk because of position and people will get unreasonably frustrated about it.
> 
> I think he's fine, just maybe not the right city.




a person out East who's completely out to lunch on a western fanbase? I thought that was only the HNIC and TSN analysts


----------



## Zarzh

Bowie Horvat said:


> A top 2/2.5 will be fine




But the media and casual fans will expect a #1 because he was a top 5 pick. Which is why he could be unfairly ran out of town.


----------



## Sarcastic

Derp Kassian said:


> a person out East who's completely out to lunch on a western fanbase? I thought that was only the HNIC and TSN analysts




I'm on the West Coast and I've been here all my life. I'm pretty sure I have a grasp on expectations in this city.


----------



## chunkylover53

Leon Draisaitl said:


> Solid pick by Vancouver.
> 
> This kid's hockey IQ is absolutely insane. I see him having a Lindholm-esque progression.




I think Serg is the most likely Lindholm candidate, ie. great toolset, tests extremely well, but part of the allure is potential.


----------



## Derp Kassian

Sarcastic said:


> I'm on the West Coast and I've been here all my life. I'm pretty sure I have a grasp on expectations in this city.




Which prospects have the Canucks fans "run out of town" because of expectation?


----------



## Sarcastic

Derp Kassian said:


> Which prospects have the Canucks fans "run out of town" because of expectation?




You've completely missed the point if you're actually asking for an example from what I've said or you have no idea what some people are actually saying right now.


----------



## Derp Kassian

Sarcastic said:


> You've completely missed the point if you're actually asking for an example from what I've said or you have no idea what some people are actually saying right now.




If you're talking about xpectations vs Tkachuk no one is going to care for awhile, Canucks fans arent that idiotic to expect an 18 year old d to step in the first two years.


----------



## Sarcastic

I absolutely disagree but that's your viewpoint. I'm pretty sure the group of people on this forum that are ready to lead riots at the current management group are going to hammer away at him for not stepping in immediately while Calgary gets immediate reward with Tkachuk.

I mean I like the pick and fits a need as soon as next year. Good situation for him.


----------



## Canucks LB

Chris McKinlay said:


> Fine. Where was the option to vote for him on our polls? He was left off. Nobody questioned it. Now all of a sudden, this pick makes sense and was the right thing to do. Sounds like revisionist history to me. I hope Juolevi proves me wrong, but I'm just not feeling this pick.




Hype train man, that great final by tkachuk in the memorial cup did it.


----------



## David71

defense wins championships. i like this pick. wanted debois but cbj picked him. they went of the board. which probably surprised edmonton/vancouver therefore they had to revert to plan b.


----------



## thepuckmonster

I'm happy with the pick, Juolevi will be a great Edler replacement in a few years. My family are huge Knights fans and STHs back east and have been singing his praises for months. I think he fills a better need than Tkachuk and makes me wonder how his interview went because Benning was high on MT right up until combine.

We have a pretty large glut of RHD prospects but with Hutton graduating our LHD pool is somewhat weak. Just happy we didn't move the pick for a stop gap, very excited to have Olli as part of the organization.


----------



## behemolari

Chris McKinlay said:


> Jesus Christ... I must be the only guy in this thread that hates this pick.




have you ever met a canucks fan? i have, so much hate


----------



## Gabranth

Do you guys think that he has higher ceiling than Ristolainen? (2013, #8 overall)


----------



## CanadienShark

Gabranth said:


> Do you guys think that he has higher ceiling than Ristolainen? (2013, #8 overall)




Honestly, I see him as a Murray-esque pick. Not a bad one by any stretch, but a very safe pick. If I had to peg someone as a Ristolainen, I'd say it's Sergachev.


----------



## Teukka

Flashing that sense of humor there. Nice save.


----------



## Tkachuk Norris

I literally think you could have made an argument for any player from 4-9 to be picked in any order. It's a needs draft. I've been saying this for a while. The players in that group are all so close that needs win the day IMO. 

Vancouver got a D, Calgary got a W. Both teams needs were met with similar caliber players.


----------



## ugghhh

snipetype said:


> I literally think you could have made an argument for any player from 4-9 to be picked in any order. It's a needs draft. I've been saying this for a while. The players in that group are all so close that needs win the day IMO.
> 
> Vancouver got a D, Calgary got a W. Both teams needs were met with similar caliber players.




I disagree. 

There was a clear top-5 IMO, and Vancouver went outside of that.

You should never draft for need, imo.

(Vancouver Fan)


----------



## The Winter Soldier

He was my best Defenceman this draft. He is not flashy, but he is very good. Does the right things to win. I also think if he could be more offensive if he wanted to sacrifice his defence. Which kind of speaks to his character. I love this pick as a neutral observer. I have no dog in this race. Juolevi is a high quality prospect worthy of 5th pick OA.


----------



## Canucks LB

He is still eligible to the WJC this upcoming year yes?.

The fun part of being a finish stud prospect, is he will get a ton of experience with other finish players on the national stage.


----------



## Breakers

Definitely the best D-man in the draft.

His IQ are skating are elite.


----------



## Gstank

I don' think he will make the team next year, but he if gains 20 pounds and has an excellent trainning camp he could make the team out of camp.

Our left side is
Edler
Hutton
??????

Right side is
Tanev 
Gubranson
Sbisa/Trymakin/Larsen


----------



## clay

Still very rattled at this pick. Yes he will be an NHLer but his ceiling is too low. If he had #1 potential, he would not have put up such mediocre numbers as the #1 option on that powerhouse Knights team.


----------



## Gstank

clay said:


> Still very rattled at this pick. Yes he will be an NHLer but his ceiling is too low. If he had #1 potential, he would not have put up such mediocre numbers as the #1 option on that powerhouse Knights team.




Top pairing defenseman is a low ceiling? Give your head a shake


----------



## BB88

ugghhh said:


> I disagree.
> 
> There was a clear top-5 IMO, and Vancouver went outside of that.
> 
> You should never draft for need, imo.
> 
> (Vancouver Fan)




Benning said they had him at 5, so they picked the best available and happened to be for need.

Bob had top3 and the next tier had 3 players, Dupois/Tkatchuk/Juolevi, it wasn't a reach.




Lucbourdon said:


> He is still eligible to the WJC this upcoming year yes?.
> 
> The fun part of being a finish stud prospect, is he will get a ton of experience with other finish players on the national stage.




He just turned 18y, he could play in 2 more tourneys.

I've seen Benning talk about his IQ a lot, and seemed to like his character.

I said this in his Vancouver thread but he missed the whole last offseason, now he is healthy and I can't wait to see how much he can improve during the summer.


----------



## clay

Gstank said:


> Top pairing defenseman is a low ceiling? Give your head a shake




Call me crazy, but I am hoping for more than a #2 d-man after finishing 28th in the NHL this year. Especially considering that we had our worst offensive season in franchise history and his teammate who outscored him by 150% went the very next pick.


----------



## Leon Draisaitl

clay said:


> Call me crazy, but I am hoping for more than a #2 d-man after finishing 28th in the NHL this year. Especially considering that we had our worst offensive season in franchise history and his teammate who outscored him by 150% went the very next pick.




Forward outscores defenseman.

In other news, the sky is blue.


----------



## IComeInPeace

I understand the bitterness towards Benning, but Juo is a heck of a prospect, and I think a lot of people are going to look silly when they look back at this thread in 3-4 seasons. 

I think he's got a legit shot at being the 3rd or 4th best player in this draft when all is said and done, perhaps even higher.


----------



## DearDiary

IComeInPeace said:


> I understand the bitterness towards Benning, but Juo is a heck of a prospect, and I think a lot of people are going to look silly when they look back at this thread in 3-4 seasons.
> 
> I think he's got a legit shot at being the 3rd or 4th best player in this draft when all is said and done, perhaps even higher.




This cannot be serious, Juolevi at best has #2 potential. If someone of his talent level has the chance of being 3rd best, this is one of the worst drafts ever


----------



## Thegame

clay said:


> Call me crazy, but I am hoping for more than a #2 d-man after finishing 28th in the NHL this year. Especially considering that we had our worst offensive season in franchise history and his teammate who outscored him by 150% went the very next pick.




Not sure if you're trying to make yourself look dumb or what.

You do realize Marner, Dvorak and Tkachuk were in on almost every point together? Which leaves barely any secondary assists for Juolevi. If Juolevi was on another team where the offense ran more through him I bet he would have put up more points. 

Why would he try and be more offensive anyways on the Knights when he has that top line taking care of it. Not to mention it was his first season on NA ice, so I'm sure his main priority was defense.

He's also never scored under .5ppg and was ppg in a lot of the leagues he's played in...

Oh and another reason that top line was able to put up so many points is because Juolevi is so good at getting the puck up the ice quickly. 

Sutter said he's impossible to forecheck, just like Duncan Keith or Doughty......

Man posts like this is why I never come here.


----------



## clay

Leon Draisaitl said:


> Forward outscores defenseman.
> 
> In other news, the sky is blue.




I suppose there was a logical gap in my post that needed clarification and perhaps I shouldn't have related the two directly in terms of point production. I feel that his point totals should have been higher if he projects to be a #1 d-man. He played top unit PP and and #1 minutes on the Knights and was significantly under a PPG. That screams red flag to me in terms of overall potential, considering that he was on a PP unit with one of the most dominant lines in junior history.


----------



## clay

Thegame said:


> Not sure if you're trying to make yourself look dumb or what.
> 
> You do realize Marner, Dvorak and Tkachuk were in on almost every point together? Which leaves barely any secondary assists for Juolevi. If Juolevi was on another team where the offense ran more through him I bet he would have put up more points.
> 
> Why would he try and be more offensive anyways on the Knights when he has that top line taking care of it. Not to mention it was his first season on NA ice, so I'm sure his main priority was defense.
> 
> He's also never scored under .5ppg and was ppg in a lot of the leagues he's played in...
> 
> Oh and another reason that top line was able to put up so many points is because Juolevi is so good at getting the puck up the ice quickly.
> 
> Sutter said he's impossible to forecheck, just like Duncan Keith or Doughty......
> 
> Man posts like this is why I never come here.




Please see my previous post. I am not the only one who has this concern - it is not outlandish by any stretch.


----------



## Thegame

clay said:


> Please see my previous post. I am not the only one who has this concern - it is not outlandish by any stretch.




How do you expect him to get more points when those 3 took all of them?

He was also on the 2nd unit pp a lot of the time.


----------



## thefeebster

Thegame said:


> Not sure if you're trying to make yourself look dumb or what.
> 
> Man posts like this is why I never come here.



Then leave.


Thegame said:


> How do you expect him to get more points when those 3 took all of them?
> 
> * He was also on the 2nd unit pp a lot of the time.*



Incorrect. Juolevi got the bulk of the time on the 1st PP unit. He split on and off with Mete, but there is no doubt Juolevi got the majority and then some. If I had to break it down, 70% of the regular season had Juolevi on the top PP.


----------



## pullyoursocksup

Gstank said:


> I don' think he will make the team next year, but he if gains 20 pounds and has an excellent trainning camp he could make the team out of camp.
> 
> Our left side is
> Edler
> Hutton
> ??????
> 
> Right side is
> Tanev
> Gubranson
> Sbisa/Trymakin/Larsen




you do realize that sbisa and tryamkin are L shot L side defensemen?


----------



## pullyoursocksup

clay said:


> Still very rattled at this pick. Yes he will be an NHLer but his ceiling is too low. If he had #1 potential, he would not have put up such mediocre numbers as the #1 option on that powerhouse Knights team.




top pairing Dman is NOT a low ceiling.


----------



## pullyoursocksup

clay said:


> Call me crazy, but I am hoping for more than a #2 d-man after finishing 28th in the NHL this year. Especially considering that we had our worst offensive season in franchise history and his teammate who outscored him by 150% went the very next pick.




A #2 dman is extremely valuable. I thought that a canucks fan would have particular knowledge of this considering the fact that there have been very few of them in the franchise over the last decade.


----------



## Gstank

pullyoursocksup said:


> you do realize that sbisa and tryamkin are L shot L side defensemen?




they have both played the right side previously. Sbisa is a L shot R side guy, Trymakin played the R side in the KHL


----------



## aresknights

thefeebster said:


> Then leave. Incorrect. Juolevi got the bulk of the time on the 1st PP unit. He split on and off with Mete, but there is no doubt Juolevi got the majority and then some. If I had to break it down, 70% of the regular season had Juolevi on the top PP.




Being a season tic holder, wayching most home games live and every other game on PVR......
No joulevi was not #1 PP unit 70% of time. Definitely under 50% of time,probly 30%
Heck even Bouchard, a true rookie, took a turn in one playoff series being on first unit.

Joulevis O from the back end is fine despite his #s. As others have suggested the staff didnt need much O from the D.

And Mete/Martinet got a ton of ice with Marner/DVO/Tkachuk 5 on 5.

I wassurprised he went that early but the kids got skills.


----------



## CloutierForVezina

pullyoursocksup said:


> A #2 dman is extremely valuable. I thought that a canucks fan would have particular knowledge of this considering the fact that there have been very few of them in the franchise over the last decade.




Canucks have had a never ending parade of #2 defensemen over the last decade. Edler, Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, Salo, Mitchell, Ohlund, Bieksa and Garrison have all served as dependable #2 defensemen for stretches over the last 10 years. 

What they've never had is a true #1 guy. I'd absolutely love if Juolevi develops into that, but it doesn't look like he'll end up as anything more than another name on our pile of #2 defensemen in our franchise's history.


----------



## thefeebster

aresknights said:


> Being a season tic holder, wayching most home games live and every other game on PVR......
> *No joulevi was not #1 PP unit 70% of time. Definitely under 50% of time,probly 30%*
> Heck even Bouchard, a true rookie, took a turn in one playoff series being on first unit.
> 
> Joulevis O from the back end is fine despite his #s. As others have suggested the staff didnt need much O from the D.
> 
> And Mete/Martinet got a ton of ice with Marner/DVO/Tkachuk 5 on 5.
> 
> I wassurprised he went that early but the kids got skills.



Not from what I saw. I have the games saved as well. Tell me which games where he wasn't used on the 1st PP and i'll rewatch. So who in the regular season was playing on the 1st unit then by your estimation? Because no way Mete got 70% of the 1st unit PP time when the 3 fwds were in the line up (IE not during the WJC break). 

Bouchard received time on the 2nd PP during the regular season and in the one series during the playoffs.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

CloutierForVezina said:


> Canucks have had a never ending parade of #2 defensemen over the last decade. Edler, Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, Salo, Mitchell, Ohlund, Bieksa and Garrison have all served as dependable #2 defensemen for stretches over the last 10 years.
> 
> What they've never had is a true #1 guy. I'd absolutely love if Juolevi develops into that, but it doesn't look like he'll end up as anything more than another name on our pile of #2 defensemen in our franchise's history.




True but if the honest potential of Juolevi is top pairing guy but not solid #1 then the honest potential of Tkachuk is a top line guy but not a driving force of the offence. I'd say both are equal in value. The difference being that defenseman are harder to get through trade or free agency. Positional value is the only difference between Tkachuk and Juolevi.


----------



## JTmillerForA1stLOL

It really doesn't matter who the canucks pick. It will always be the wrong choice.


----------



## canucksfan100

He's pretty much a weaker (in strength) Olli Maata with better hockey sense and agility. At the worst he'll be a below average #2, at best a very good #2. The o my legit #1 D in the NHL are Hedman Pietrangelo OEL Subban Doughty Keith Letang Suter McDonagh Karlsson Weber Giordano...12 legit #1 Defenseman RIGHT NOW (Chara is not a #1 anymore)


----------



## keslerbomb

After watching a few minutes of his highlights on youtube, it seems to me like he's a slightly better OEL.


----------



## 93LEAFS

He was worthy of going 5, the belief that there was a strong top 5 consensus was not as clear cut as many posters made it out to be. Juolevi rarely wows you, but he's extremely solid, with a great pass and is very hard to forecheck. Didn't Benning compare him to Lidstrom at one point? He has some similar traits, so I'd say he has the potential to be a top defender in the league, and a "true" #1D

Really curios to what he can do when he adds some weight. As easy as it is to make fun of Benning, I don't think he deserves much scorn for this pick. Tkachuk is nice, but you already have Virtanen and Boeser in promising winger prospects, plus some hope with a young guy like Baertschi.


----------



## thomast

IMO the gap between PuljujÃ¤rvi and Juolevi was smaller than Laine and PuljujÃ¤rvi. I believe that PuljujÃ¤rvi might have most of untapped potential of big 3 because he is bit raw and has incredible tools but right now Matthews and Laine are just different level players. Juolevi is to me closer to PuljujÃ¤rvi. He is one of most intelligent defencemen i've seen in a while. He was the #1 D for gold winning Team Finland being underager breaking up some records and was on All-Star team. He was #1 guy defensively and offensively, led the orchestra with fast transition from D to O and was huge part of finnish success. I think he has chance to be similar kind of defenceman for VAN.


----------



## Dropkick Murphy

Juolevi is best young defenseman from Finland since Teppo Numminen. Better than Ristolainen, Vatanen or MÃ¤Ã¤ttÃ¤. Needs to bulk up and as always with prospects, nothing is guarenteed. Has all tools to became top 5 defender in the league, now it just up to him and Canucks organization to start honing those skills. I'm not saying that it's guaranteed he will became top5 guy, but building blocks clearly are there.

He and Aho were the brains and leaders of Finnish WJC-team, PuljujÃ¤rvi and Laine were the muscle.


----------



## TT1

you guys got my 2nd favorite prospect (after PLD) from the draft, im so jealous . 

he went 5th overall and hes still the most underrated prospect in the draft, casual draft fans always react this way to non-sexy picks (he doesnt score highlight reel goals like Sergachev!). 

hockey fans and even scouts were saying Ekblad wouldnt be more than a #2-#3 dman in his draft year too.. yea, look at him now. Juolevi is too smart and he plays too efficiently not to be an NHL stud. Hes the type of player who can carry a d-core, he doesnt need to score highlight reel goals.

All throughout his career hes been playing against players 2-3 years older than him while playing big top pairing minutes and producing offensively, do you know how rare that is? He was Finlands #1 D at the u20's as a 17 year old..


----------



## vaiski

It's pretty funny how people in this thread literally look at his point totals and deem him to have a low ceiling. He's got great tools, he's smart, poised, agile, great passer, great positioning, great frame to build muscle on. He was The Guy on the WJC winning team. That team's defense was an absolute mess after Juolevi and he carried the back end as the second youngest guy on the team, after PuljujÃ¤rvi, and as the youngest dman in the tournament. To me, his performance there was absolutely in the same category as the first line.


----------



## Legend Leinonen

This guy is sort of meh to me.


----------



## thomast

vaiski said:


> It's pretty funny how people in this thread literally look at his point totals and deem him to have a low ceiling. He's got great tools, he's smart, poised, agile, great passer, great positioning, great frame to build muscle on. He was The Guy on the WJC winning team. That team's defense was an absolute mess after Juolevi and he carried the back end as the second youngest guy on the team, after PuljujÃ¤rvi. To me, his performance there was absolutely in the same category as the first line.




IMO, he was the anchor for first line. Most of the offense off the rush on that line was started by Juolevi from defensive zone after his defensive play and super fast transition from defense to foward in full stride into offense. That is crucial in the NHL.


----------



## Legend Leinonen

I'm sorry, I just can't get hard on this guy.


----------



## vaiski

thomast said:


> IMO, he was the anchor for first line. Most of the offense off the rush on that line was started by Juolevi from defensive zone after his defensive play and super fast transition from defense to foward in full stride into offense. That is crucial in the NHL.




Yes, he was literally the only guy capable of safely handling the puck in the defensive zone and giving out a breakout pass. SaarijÃ¤rvi was maybe the only other guy but even he had some terrible giveaways and defensive zone brainfarts. I think the strengths he has are tailor made for today's NHL.


----------



## Kamiccolo

I'm a leaf fan who dislikes the Cannucks but I just can't say they made a bad pick. I watched the Knights a ton to follow Marner, and this guy has poise and oozes high hockey IQ. He gets the puck and starts skating with it and you feel like something is going to happen. Great transitional D.

I don't think he will be a #1, but he certainly has that upside. I don't think calling him a potential #2 is outrageous, I think saying he isn't is. I hate to say it but you guys got a hell of a good player here.

In 4 years people will look back and change their tunes. I was never sold on Tkachuk. He benefited from his line mates a lot and a lot of his points were secondary. As we even see in the NHL stick someone who can skate and shoot onto a line with two stars and they'll put up points. I'm not saying he won't be good, but he'll be a complimentary piece.

I think you guys got a better player than the first two picks before you actually. Poolparty might top out as a 2nd/3rd line playmaking winger which would still be outstanding, but yeah.

Good pick by you guys.


----------



## JTmillerForA1stLOL

Kake Randelin said:


> I'm sorry, I just can't get hard on this guy.




While I don't doubt your ability to get hard on guys, I think you're kidding yourself if you don't see his potential.


----------



## DFAC

For those who follow him closely, are Lindholm and Maata good comparables?


----------



## Olli Juolevi

Jim Benning should be critized for his bad trades but his drafting has been decent (aside from Virtanen but he still has time to develop). At the end of the day we had a choice between the #5 and #6 "ranked" players and we chose the defenseman that safely projects to be Hamhuis as his floor. The analytics crowd should be all over this pick because Olli's stats are pretty remarkable (+65 differential etc). He might be a "boring kale and beet root salad" player but he wins you games and will be highly valuable for the future of this franchise. Eat your dam veggies!!

Tkachuk was IMO a by product of Marner, I honestly don't think he will be a franchise #1LW. While he may be a sexier pick and flashy McDonalds Cheesebuger with all the spotlight on him as the "#5" pick I think he will ultimately become a #2 LW on a line with Bennet which is pretty good but at the same time not what the Canucks need for the rebuild.


----------



## Josepho

DFAC said:


> For those who follow him closely, are Lindholm and Maata good comparables?




Lindholm - yes.
Maatta - no. Maatta is physically stronger and definitely inferior in terms of skating.


----------



## thepuckmonster

DFAC said:


> For those who follow him closely, are Lindholm and Maata good comparables?




Lindholm yes, Maata probably no. Maata's biggest weakness has always been skating where as its one of Juolevi's biggest attributes.


----------



## Canucks LB

IComeInPeace said:


> I understand the bitterness towards Benning, but Juo is a heck of a prospect, and I think a lot of people are going to look silly when they look back at this thread in 3-4 seasons.
> 
> I think he's got a legit shot at being the 3rd or 4th best player in this draft when all is said and done, perhaps even higher.




Silly? The guy is being loved in this thread lol, barely see any negativity.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Olli Juolevi said:


> Jim Benning should be critized for his bad trades but his drafting has been decent (aside from Virtanen but he still has time to develop). At the end of the day we had a choice between the #5 and #6 "ranked" players and we chose the defenseman that safely projects to be Hamhuis as his floor. The analytics crowd should be all over this pick because Olli's stats are pretty remarkable (+65 differential etc). He might be a "boring kale and beet root salad" player but he wins you games and will be highly valuable for the future of this franchise. Eat your dam veggies!!
> 
> Tkachuk was IMO a by product of Marner, I honestly don't think he will be a franchise #1LW. While he may be a sexier pick and flashy McDonalds Cheesebuger with all the spotlight on him as the "#5" pick I think he will ultimately become a #2 LW on a line with Bennet which is pretty good but at the same time not what the Canucks need for the rebuild.



Of course you would say that. Get off HF and go train, Olli.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

I feel like Canucks fans hate this pick. And other teams fans think it's good.


----------



## Canucks LB

Kake Randelin said:


> I'm sorry, I just can't get hard on this guy.




Did you create a new account just to say this?


----------



## Lempo

I tried the search function but came up with nada. It just can't be that no one hasn't ever called him Oil of Ulay, but if it is, we should start like now.


----------



## monster_bertuzzi

Desmond Hume said:


> I feel like Canucks fans hate this pick. And other teams fans think it's good.




I wanted Mathew Tkachuk like everyone else, and a few of us were tuned in about how good Keller is going to be...but I'm happy with our potential stud #1 Defenseman in Juolevi. 

If he really is the best hands down and evolves into a OEL for us...we're the winners of this draft far as I;m concerned.


----------



## Sonny21

Desmond Hume said:


> I feel like Canucks fans hate this pick. And other teams fans think it's good.




It kinda reminds me of Rielly draft for Leafs fans. Most of us (including myself) had such a tunnel vision about picking a forward so badly that we hardly paid much attention to any d in the draft. 

Most of us except a handful that didn't have tunnel vision were shell shocked that we passed on Forsberg who was the sexy pick, since Galchenyuk didn't drop down. 

I think most Canucks fans were locked in and tunnel vision on Dubois/Tkachuck.

One of the reasons Knights had such success was because of Juolevi and that mobile pmd of Knights. I remember in one of Hunter's post presser's saying that's one of the biggest difference between the Knights of previous years that weren't able to win Mem cup and this years. Their d was able to get the puck to the forwards. 

Juolevi really does remind me of Lindholm. I would send him back to London for another year at least. With Marner and Dvorak graduating, Juolevi will have a bigger opportunity to showcase and develop his offensive side a bit more as well.


----------



## Smeagoal

Sonny21 said:


> It kinda reminds me of Rielly draft for Leafs fans. Most of us (including myself) had such a tunnel vision about picking a forward so badly that we hardly paid much attention to any d in the draft.
> 
> Most of us except a handful that didn't have tunnel vision were shell shocked that we passed on Forsberg who was the sexy pick, since Galchenyuk didn't drop down.
> 
> I think most Canucks fans were locked in and tunnel vision on Dubois/Tkachuck.
> 
> One of the reasons Knights had such success was because of Juolevi and that mobile pmd of Knights. I remember in one of Hunter's post presser's saying that's one of the biggest difference between the Knights of previous years that weren't able to win Mem cup and this years. Their d was able to get the puck to the forwards.
> 
> Juolevi really does remind me of Lindholm. I would send him back to London for another year at least. With Marner and Dvorak graduating, Juolevi will have a bigger opportunity to showcase and develop his offensive side a bit more as well.




Great post


----------



## Riellyfan04

This guy will be a solid D, just watch.. Very nice pick for Nux


----------



## M2Beezy

The more i think the more i like this pick. Great draft job again Benning just next time dont dump off most of the picks please


----------



## Jack Tripper

Desmond Hume said:


> I feel like Canucks fans hate this pick. And other teams fans think it's good.




it's not that canucks fan hate the pick, it's more the disappointment of getting unlucky and barely missing out of drafting a franchise player after suffering through one of the worst seasons in canucks history...all the while watching canadian rivals toronto, edmonton and winnipeg draft potential stars

i think he'll be a fine player but he's the kind of safe prospect you expect to draft around the 8-10 spot rather than a high upside lottery selection

there's also a few fans (i'm not one of them) that would rather have drafted sergechev as they were pretty interchangable in terms of pre-draft rankings


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Jack Tripper said:


> it's not that canucks fan hate the pick, it's more the disappointment of getting unlucky and barely missing out of drafting a franchise player after suffering through one of the worst seasons in canucks history...all the while watching canadian rivals toronto, edmonton and winnipeg draft potential stars
> 
> i think he'll be a fine player but he's the kind of safe prospect you expect to draft around the 8-10 spot rather than a high upside lottery selection
> 
> there's also a few fans (i'm not one of them) that would rather have drafted sergechev as they were pretty interchangable in terms of pre-draft rankings




And Tkachuk is a franchise player?
If anything, he's way more of a complimentary piece than Juolevi.


----------



## M2Beezy

Yeah i think in a few years redraft will be

Matthews
Laine
Juol
Pullji
Tkachuck
Brown
Sergachev
Keller
Jost
Dubois

Canucks robbed it here imo but we will see


----------



## Sempiternal

Vancouver apologists love the pick. The rest of the world would've taken Tkachuk.


----------



## polarbearcub

HCBayern said:


> Vancouver apologists love the pick. The rest of the world would've taken Tkachuk.




Obviously have not read our boards


----------



## nukfan94

HCBayern said:


> Vancouver apologists love the pick. The rest of the world would've taken Tkachuk.



"Vancouver apologists"? What are they, a political party?


----------



## Tv9924

cadillaccts said:


> While I don't doubt your ability to get hard on guys, I think you're kidding yourself if you don't see his potential.


----------



## Tv9924

Desmond Hume said:


> I feel like Canucks fans hate this pick. And other teams fans think it's good.




We were set on Tkachuk or Dubois. I think we must've had something like 4 threads debating about which one would be a better fit for us


----------



## 93LEAFS

The disappointment aspect of this thread is pretty funny. It seems a decent amount of fans were really pushing that there was a 4/5 tier in this draft. Funny to also see some of those people back track now. The Puljujarvi slip baffled me, so maybe there was truly a 3/4 tier (I don't see it, I believe Columbus reached, or saw something they really didn't like about Puljujarvi). Its said that Edmonton had Sergachev high if Puljujarvi went, and its also said the Sabres had Nylander at 5, seems that the 4-11 was as jumbled as originally stated. 

Benning, just let Juolevi develop slowly and don't rush him like you did Virtanen and McCann last year.


----------



## JA




----------



## Lempo

93LEAFS said:


> The disappointment aspect of this thread is pretty funny. It seems a decent amount of fans were really pushing that there was a 4/5 tier in this draft. Funny to also see some of those people back track now. The Puljujarvi slip baffled me, so maybe there was truly a 3/4 tier (I don't see it, I believe Columbus reached, or saw something they really didn't like about Puljujarvi). Its said that Edmonton had Sergachev high if Puljujarvi went, and its also said the Sabres had Nylander at 5, seems that the 4-11 was as jumbled as originally stated.




Emphasis on the consensus or the on-the-average listings fails to take in consideration that all the teams will draft by their own listing on their own turn. Outlier Columbus doing their thing with the third rocked it for the subsequent picks.

Jarmo did warn beforehand though that they were going to go against the conventional wisdom. He did claim though that Dubois was third on their own scouting list, but maybe the warning was about picking for need rather than BPA. It was reported in the Finnish press that they were shopping for a downgrade to 4th and 5th overall, but went with the 3rd in the end because they wouldn't have been guaranteed to get Dubois.

It would maybe make an interesting drafting strategy case study thread.


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

Lempo said:


> Emphasis on the consensus or the on-the-average listings fails to take in consideration that* all the teams will draft by their own listing on their own turn. *Outlier Columbus doing their thing with the third rocked it for the subsequent picks.
> 
> Jarmo did warn beforehand though that they were going to go against the conventional wisdom. He did claim though that Dubois was third on their own scouting list, but maybe the warning was about picking for need rather than BPA. It was reported in the Finnish press that they were shopping for a downgrade to 4th and 5th overall, but went with the 3rd in the end because they wouldn't have been guaranteed to get Dubois.
> 
> It would maybe make an interesting drafting strategy case study thread.




A basic point that far too many people don't seem to grasp.


----------



## 701

Gstank said:


> they have both played the right side previously. Sbisa is a L shot R side guy, Trymakin played the R side in the KHL




Not to mention that Tryamkin played RD with the Canucks at the end of last season. That's where
he's comfortable, although he shoots L.

Sbisa shoots L but plays either side . . . kinda poorly, but with a high-IQ partner it can work.

Pedan is the lowest-ranked L side NHL D on the Canucks. Until Juolevi was drafted, Brisebois
was the strongest L side prospect, followed by Olson. Now there's Candella too.

So the L side currently is: Edler, Hutton, Sbisa, Pedan. Not much after that for current pro depth.
And the R side is: Tanev, Gudbranson, Tryamkin, Larsen, Biega. With Stecher and Subban as
serious AHL prospects, and Neill an AHL rookie this coming season.

Which leaves Juolevi with a great opportunity, either this year or next, on the thin L side. Brisebois
is a strong prospect there too, but needs a final year in the Q and a year in Utica at least. So there
was a clear need at LD, and thus a clear path for Juolevi to make the NHL in the near future.


----------



## Canucks LB

HCBayern said:


> Vancouver apologists love the pick. The rest of the world would've taken Tkachuk.



have you missed this thread, 99% of the people here are talking how good this pick was for vancouver lol


----------



## Curufinwe

The Flyers would have taken Tkachuk, but only because we're loaded with LHD prospects.


----------



## Zombotron

*A small update*


----------



## M2Beezy

Zombotron said:


>





Unreal! Get the party started!! 

Does this mean utica/vancity bound?


----------



## KILLger

Drafted out of the OHL.

No.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Mogilny to Bure said:


> Unreal! Get the party started!!
> 
> Does this mean utica/vancity bound?



No, he wasn't on loan like Honka or Alex Nylander. He was drafted as an OHL product.


----------



## Breakers

Mogilny to Bure said:


> Unreal! Get the party started!!
> 
> Does this mean utica/vancity bound?




Why not have him develop in London?

Ideally it would go like this for Vancouver

16/17 = London
17/18 = AHL
18/19 = NHL

perfect development.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Breakers said:


> Why not have him develop in London?
> 
> Ideally it would go like this for Vancouver
> 
> 16/17 = London
> 17/18 = AHL
> 18/19 = NHL
> 
> perfect development.



Not an option, not AHL eligible til 2018/19. He was drafted out of the OHL and is an early birthday.


----------



## Breakers

93LEAFS said:


> Not an option, not AHL eligible til 2018/19. He was drafted out of the OHL and is an early birthday.




Ok

16/17 = London
17/18 = London & lose in first round of playoffs/ finish year in AHL if possible
18/19 = NHL

perfect development.


----------



## NHL Dude 120

Breakers said:


> Ok
> 
> 16/17 = London
> 17/18 = London & lose in first round of playoffs/ finish year in AHL if possible
> 18/19 = NHL
> 
> perfect development.




This is London your talking about they dont do 1st round exits


----------



## Territory

With Vancouver's awful roster I could see him going back to London for 1 year then making the team. Much like Reilly did.


----------



## Szechwan

Territory said:


> With Vancouver's awful roster I could see him going back to London for 1 year then making the team. Much like Reilly did.




Awful roster or not, they're pretty full on the back for the near future.

Edler-Tanev
Hutton-Gudbranson
Sbisa/Tryamkin/Larsson/Biega

He'll have as much time as he needs in the minors because that D-core is pretty young as it is.


----------



## BB88

I bet he's NHL player in 17-18 season, the thing Juolevi needs the most is gain strenght, the skill is there but another offseason to add weight and he'll win a roster spot.


----------



## CanaFan

Szechwan said:


> Awful roster or not, they're pretty full on the back for the near future.
> 
> Edler-Tanev
> Hutton-Gudbranson
> Sbisa/Tryamkin/Larsson/Biega
> 
> He'll have as much time as he needs in the minors because that D-core is pretty young as it is.




Top 4 is fine but that bottom pair is a mess and honestly, Sbisa is no obstacle to Juolevi. Basically needs to improve his strength and weight in 2016-17 and, assuming he does, there isn't anything to keep him from winning a spot on the bottom pair (potentially with Tryamkin). Sbisa will be gone as soon as Benning finds a chump to dump him on (which admittedly will be tough) and Biega is AHL/fringe NHL depth. Larsson - who knows, will depend on the upcoming season but I don't see him as a sure bet either.

Not much blocking Juolevi to be honest.


----------



## Nalyd Psycho

Except the team will not feel any pressure to give him aten minute a game roster pot if he only beats out ten minute a night players.


----------



## Josepho

I thought he played very well last night and I thought his play reflected exactly how he's going to be in the NHL. He didn't make any eye-popping plays but he didn't make any mistakes and he made some very good passes. Aside from some slightly poor positioning on the third goal, he was sound in his own end. His steady defensive presence allowed Stecher to carry the puck through the neutral zone. In that sequence where the Canucks were cycling like hell in the neutral zone he made a few really good passes that showed off his vision. Definitely has some growing to do, but that's a good showing by an 18 year old defenceman. I hope we try pairing him with Subban against Winnipeg.

I still would've preferred Keller or Tkachuk, but a mobile and smart defenceman absolutely is a recipe for success.


----------



## D0ctorCool

Josepho said:


> I thought he played very well last night and I thought his play reflected exactly how he's going to be in the NHL. He didn't make any eye-popping plays but he didn't make any mistakes and he made some very good passes. Aside from some slightly poor positioning on the third goal, he was sound in his own end. His steady defensive presence allowed Stecher to carry the puck through the neutral zone. In that sequence where the Canucks were cycling like hell in the neutral zone he made a few really good passes that showed off his vision. Definitely has some growing to do, but that's a good showing by an 18 year old defenceman. I hope we try pairing him with Subban against Winnipeg.
> 
> I still would've preferred Keller or Tkachuk, but a mobile and smart defenceman absolutely is a recipe for success.




Nothing to add. Agree with everything here.


----------



## leaflover

I liked his game last night, even though that wasn't a particularly strong team San Jose iced it was still decent competition.
He fit in nicely and he earned himself a good chunk of ice time with solid play. I really like how he anticipates the play and how calm he plays in general. Kind of hoping he gets a look before returning to London.
Just wait until the kid fills that frame out and hones his skills to go along with the smarts he has already.


----------



## Canucks LB

His hockey iq is pretty ridiculous for his age. 

He thinks the game like a 10 year vet.

Great game from him, and his 1st assist


----------



## The Winter Soldier

Lucbourdon said:


> His hockey iq is pretty ridiculous for his age.
> 
> He thinks the game pike a 10 year vet.
> 
> Great game from him, and his 1st assist




I agree with this assessment, he makes the game look simple and easy. I think some people mistake less flash means less talent. 

I'm just waiting for him to conquer the defensive part of the game, before he starts attacking the offensive side part. Juolevi has all the tools to be a #1, 2 way D man IMO.


----------



## TeddyBare

Back to London he goes


----------



## WetcoastOrca

TeddyBare said:


> Back to London he goes




It's a good move.
He looked decent in camp but needs probably a couple of years to fill out and develop. No need to rush him.


----------



## leaflover

Was hoping he'd get a couple regular season games under his belt but no big deal.
He needs to add strength but definitely going to be a fixture on Vancouvers blueline for a long long time.
Great prospect.


----------



## M2Beezy

TeddyBare said:


> Back to London he goes




Needs it


----------



## Canucks LB

TeddyBare said:


> Back to London he goes




?? Was not because of bad play, more the opposite, the guy just needs to add strength. He had a great camp


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

At 6'3 180lbs there's no way he could battle witg NHL sized guys, he's got a good sized frame to fill in and all the brains and talent are there. Just a waiting game now. You can't teach smart


----------



## 93LEAFS

Should be the best defender in the OHL this year, can't wait to see what he can do with London this year. Hopefully Tkachuk joins him soon.


----------



## Kudo Shinichi

93LEAFS said:


> *Should be the best defender in the OHL this year*, can't wait to see what he can do with London this year. Hopefully Tkachuk joins him soon.




Not if Sergachev is sent back


----------



## 93LEAFS

KawaYui said:


> Not if Sergachev is sent back



No, he'd still be. Maybe keep those comments to the Sergachev thread. Maybe not if Chychrun gets sent back though.


----------



## Leafs at Knight

TeddyBare said:


> Back to London he goes




As expected ?


----------



## Plural

Juolevi will wreck the OHL this year. I think he's going to take a big step ahead in physical development and end the year being much closer to NHL strength.


----------



## stewpac

93LEAFS said:


> No, he'd still be. Maybe keep those comments to the Sergachev thread. Maybe not if Chychrun gets sent back though.




Comparing him to his peers is fair post here. Sergachev was the best last season of the three but it will be interesting to see which one of them will be this year. I suspect juolevi will have competition from bouchard on the power play and he might not get top pp minutes.


----------



## 93LEAFS

stewpac said:


> Comparing him to his peers is fair post here. Sergachev was the best last season of the three but it will be interesting to see which one of them will be this year. I suspect juolevi will have competition from bouchard on the power play and he might not get top pp minutes.



Its fine to compare them, but just hopping in to say Sergachev will be the best, without adding anything to the discussion is just pimping your teams prospect in another thread.

I watched a significant portion of the Knights games last year, my feeling is that if Marner isn't sent back they will ruin the PP through Juolevi. From what I've seen this year, the Knights PP is having trouble setting up (now they did lose basically their entire PP1, granted the only mainstays on that united were Marner, Dvo, and Tkachuk with another forward and 1D rotated in). 

I also don't think Sergachev was the best, but compared to Juolevi he was given a bunch of offensive freedom. It seems Hunter gave guys like Mete more freedom to rush up ice. The Knights didn't need Juolevi playing a risky game to get offence, so using him in a very balanced role appeared to be the instructions. 

If Sergachev goes back though I expect his counting stats to be quite impressive, him, Vilardi and Brown will be a very strong PP unit, even if they don't get Fischer or Nattinen back.


----------



## King In The North

Looking forward to seeing him next year.


----------



## Kobe Armstrong

93LEAFS said:


> No, he'd still be. Maybe keep those comments to the Sergachev thread. Maybe not if Chychrun gets sent back though.




Sergachev was better last year, and has looked better this year, so... it's a pretty fair assessment 

You call him the best defender in the OHL this year, and take exception when someone brings up another player's name? lame


----------



## Hokinaittii

Kobe Armstrong said:


> Sergachev was better last year, and has looked better this year, so... it's a pretty fair assessment
> 
> You call him the best defender in the OHL this year, and take exception when someone brings up another player's name? lame



As far as I'm concerned after seeing only couple of games from both prospects this preseason, both haven been just equally good. If you have watched Juolevi play this preseason, you wouldn't have made that comment so easily.

If anything, Juolevi's last game against the Sharks was a great showdown of his skills and at least based on that, Juolevi showed more of his potential in there than Sergachev in those 2 games I was able to watch. But like I said, my viewings of the players are really slim so I might have missed the game where Sergachev stood out the most.

But the prospects surely are still work in progress.


----------



## irunthepeg

93LEAFS said:


> Should be the best defender in the OHL this year, can't wait to see what he can do with London this year. Hopefully Tkachuk joins him soon.






KawaYui said:


> Not if Sergachev is sent back






93LEAFS said:


> No, he'd still be. *Maybe keep those comments to the Sergachev thread. *Maybe not if Chychrun gets sent back though.




You brought up the argument that he'd be the best defender in the OHL and KawaYui countered it. His comments are welcomed if you're willing to start a debate about if a player will be the best at his position this year in the OHL... 

Both will be exciting prospects to keep up with in the OHL this year. London will definitely be good again this year.


----------



## BusQuets

Sergachev looked pretty bad in his own zone to my eyes especially his gap control and position. Where as Juolevi looked actually pretty polished but lacked strength. I actually think Juolevi will adjust faster as his weaknesses are easy to fix.

This is based on their NHL pre-season. I don't find it surprising that Sergachev looks better in junior leagues with his play style but it doesn't translate to NHL as well.


----------



## thomast

Last year being underager at WJC Juolevi performed in the same level with Werenski and Provorov. Broke up some records being 17 year old defenseman if i remember correctly.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Kobe Armstrong said:


> Sergachev was better last year, and has looked better this year, so... it's a pretty fair assessment
> 
> You call him the best defender in the OHL this year, and take exception when someone brings up another player's name? lame




yeah. no. Bob Mckenzie said Juolevi was best D in draft. I trust him more than you or a bunch of OHL coaches.


----------



## King In The North

Desmond Hume said:


> yeah. no. Bob Mckenzie said Juolevi was best D in draft. I trust him more than you or *a bunch of OHL coaches*.




Uh, I don't know about that.

Could you source Bob's quote?


----------



## Elias Pettersson

King In The North said:


> Uh, I don't know about that.
> 
> Could you source Bob's quote?




http://www.tsn.ca/matthews-goes-wire-to-wire-as-tsn-s-top-prospect-1.511597

Scouts + Bob Mc > OHL coaches vote.

OHL coaches always vote a bunch of people for the awards. Most of those names don't even make the NHL. Their votes are influenced by who they play, their rivals, etc. When they play against London, the coaches focus on Marner and Dvorak in terms of shutting them down. 
This year they will notice Juolevi more. 

Scouts jobs are to independently assess talent without bias (or less bias than coaches). It's their job to know who's better.


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

King In The North said:


> Uh, I don't know about that.
> 
> Could you source Bob's quote?




http://www.tsn.ca/matthews-goes-wire-to-wire-as-tsn-s-top-prospect-1.511597


----------



## TeddyBare

Kobe Armstrong said:


> Sergachev was better last year, *and has looked better this year*, so... it's a pretty fair assessment
> 
> You call him the best defender in the OHL this year, and take exception when someone brings up another player's name? lame





Ummmmmm how are you making that assessment?


----------



## King In The North

Thanks.


----------



## King In The North

TeddyBare said:


> Ummmmmm how are you making that assessment?




Probably just based on preseason appearances.


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

TeddyBare said:


> Ummmmmm how are you making that assessment?




I'm going to assume that he has watched Sergachev and not watched Juolevi - so, through process of elimination, that would leave Sergachev as the more impressive of the two.


----------



## WetcoastOrca

I think that there were a number of defensemen in this year's draft who were quite close so it's really impossible to say who was the best. From my viewings, Juolevi is more of an all round defenseman while Sergachev has the better offence. 

Speaking only of Juolevi, he looks to be a very smart player who doesn't take a lot of chances offensively. Probably because he played for a stacked London team where there were lots of offensive players. Another year in London will give him a chance to take on a more offensive role and to be more of a leader. He also needs to fill out his frame. Overall I was impressed with his play in the pre-season. Will be excited to watch him develop in London this year under a great system that has been a hockey factory in turning out well rounded players.


----------



## BB88

King In The North said:


> Probably just based on preseason appearances.




Juolevi has been very impressive during this pre season, so it's difficult to see how Serg can be named better that easily.

I don't think I saw Juolevi made even 1 major mistake this pre season.


----------



## TeddyBare

King In The North said:


> Probably just based on preseason appearances.




So 2 games.


2 GP
1 Point
+1 rating

Solid sample size.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

TeddyBare said:


> So 2 games.
> 
> 
> 2 GP
> 1 Point
> +1 rating
> 
> Solid sample size.




hey man. that's a 41 point pace and +41 in a full NHL season. Thats a calder trophy right there.


----------



## King In The North

TeddyBare said:


> So 2 games.
> 
> 
> 2 GP
> 1 Point
> +1 rating
> 
> Solid sample size.




Haha I know. I didn't make the comparison!


----------



## 93LEAFS

Kobe Armstrong said:


> Sergachev was better last year, and has looked better this year, so... it's a pretty fair assessment
> 
> You call him the best defender in the OHL this year, and take exception when someone brings up another player's name? lame



I'm sure comments like that would be much appreciated in the Sergachev thread every time someone calls him the best D in the draft. I'll make sure to include more than a one-line response and even include McKenzie's poll.


----------



## BB88

As we have Knights fans here what's the expectation for Juolevi, how much icetime could he be seeing there, who is he expected to play with as of today and are we looking at #1 pp& pk duties for Juolevi?


----------



## a587b

vanwest said:


> I think that there were a number of defensemen in this year's draft who were quite close so it's really impossible to say who was the best. From my viewings, Juolevi is more of an all round defenseman while Sergachev has the better offence.
> 
> Speaking only of Juolevi, he looks to be a very smart player who doesn't take a lot of chances offensively. Probably because he played for a stacked London team where there were lots of offensive players. Another year in London will give him a chance to take on a more offensive role and to be more of a leader. He also needs to fill out his frame. Overall I was impressed with his play in the pre-season. Will be excited to watch him develop in London this year under a great system that has been a hockey factory in turning out well rounded players.




Agree on all counts. 

Sure hope Juolevi turns into a real player. Canucks need all the help they can get. Is there any way to get the Forsling-Clendening trade revoked, 20 months after the fact?


----------



## thepuckmonster

Aside from draft position, I really don't get the point of comparing Serg and Juolevi. They play completely differently and can be majorly impactful in different ways.


----------



## rt

It's stupid to rush prospects. It's smart to take your time with them. Of this, there is no question.


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

thepuckmonster said:


> Aside from draft position, I really don't get the point of comparing Serg and Juolevi. They play completely differently and can be majorly impactful in different ways.




I don't get it, either. 

Juolevi is great and is worthy of Van's selection of him. His height/frame is great but even prior to the draft it was obvious he would need to gain more strength before being an NHL regular. 

This isn't a race - Juolevi will be an NHL player soon enough. He does not need to be shoehorned into the lineup to prove anything. 

Re Sergachev - I like him a lot, too. While I think he's extremely skilled I will not sign off of the comments I've seen that he has some ceiling that is wildly better than anything Juolevi has to offer. 

imo, 5 years from now, Juolevi will be the superior d-man of the two. we'll have to wait and see.



rt said:


> It's stupid to rush prospects. It's smart to take your time with them. Of this, there is no question.




agreed.


----------



## thepuckmonster

UsernameWasTaken said:


> I don't get it, either.
> 
> Juolevi is great and is worthy of Van's selection of him. His height/frame is great but even prior to the draft it was obvious he would need to gain more strength before being an NHL regular.
> 
> This isn't a race - Juolevi will be an NHL player soon enough. He does not need to be shoehorned into the lineup to prove anything.
> 
> Re Sergachev - I like him a lot, too. While I think he's extremely skilled I will not sign off of the comments I've seen that he has some ceiling that is wildly better than anything Juolevi has to offer.
> 
> imo, 5 years from now, Juolevi will be the superior d-man of the two. we'll have to wait and see.
> 
> 
> 
> agreed.




Exactly. Development is not linear, and it's a marathon, not a sprint. I don't think it's entirely appropriate to have to justify Juolevi vs Serg in a thread about solely the former himself. It's not a pissing contest. I'm happy Montreal fans like their pick -- he has his own thread to talk about how great he is.


----------



## Volica

rt said:


> It's stupid to rush prospects. It's smart to take your time with them. Of this, there is no question.




Especially defensive prospects. At 17-18-19, there aren't many of them that are physically ready for that grind.


----------



## KingTux

Is he getting a 9 game try out ?


----------



## 93LEAFS

Volica said:


> Especially defensive prospects. At 17-18-19, there aren't many of them that are physically ready for that grind.



I pointed this out in another thread, but the only D I've seen come up and have a lot of success as an 18 year old in the NHL was Ekblad and he was a bit of a unique case in the fact he already had 3 years of CHL experience due to getting exceptional status. Hanifin looked good last year too, but he also took a fairly unique path as he fast tracked high-school so he had a full NCAA season under his belt.

Most of the other rookies who did well in there D+1 were late-birthdays (Doughty).


----------



## 93LEAFS

Hulleux said:


> Is he getting a 9 game try out ?



Was sent down already, should be in the Knights lineup tonight.


----------



## Zaddy

It's going to be good for him to be back in London. Will be interesting to see what kind of numbers he'll post offensively this year. I assume he is going to be a big part of the Knights offense this year with Dvorak and possibly Tkachuk and Marner gone as well.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Zaddy Zads said:


> It's going to be good for him to be back in London. Will be interesting to see what kind of numbers he'll post offensively this year. I assume he is going to be a big part of the Knights offense this year with Dvorak and possibly Tkachuk and Marner gone as well.



Biggest for his production will be if Marner doesn't return, as he probably gets a shot at qbing the powerplay.


----------



## Starry Knight

BB88 said:


> As we have Knights fans here what's the expectation for Juolevi, how much icetime could he be seeing there, who is he expected to play with as of today and are we looking at #1 pp& pk duties for Juolevi?




All the ice time are belong to Juolevi.

Seriously though, he's going to get a lot more touches on the PP without Marner. In the first few games, the Knights have missed Juolevi the most. The PP was anemic without Juolevi to run it.

Who he's going to play with is a pretty big unknown. The Knights have an injury in their OA defenseman Martenet and a full house of young defensemen that will be revolved in and out. If I had to guess, he will be playing with his occasional D-partner from last year, Crawley where he'd play the right side. He could also be paired with Evan Bouchard (2018 draft eligible)


----------



## JayHockey

How he's looking so far in London? 11pts in 14 games, pretty good.


----------



## Enel

Tough tournament for Juolevi, but good opportunity for him to develop some leadership skills


----------



## SelltheTeamFrancesco

Enel said:


> Tough tournament for Juolevi, but good opportunity for him to develop some leadership skills




Has not played all that bad, played well defensively and shown that he has very high hockey iq.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Enel said:


> Tough tournament for Juolevi, but good opportunity for him to develop some leadership skills






matsin47 said:


> Has not played all that bad, played well defensively and shown that he has very high hockey iq.



Juolevi will always be somewhat dependent on the forwards infront of him to look good. His best skills are his 4-way mobility, defensive iq, ability to avoid the fore-check and a quick outlet pass. If the forwards can't do anything with those passes, he's not going to look too great. Its why he looks amazing with forwards who are quick in transition (Marner and Puljujarvi) who can take his passes and establish the zone.


----------



## Canucks LB

Enel said:


> Tough tournament for Juolevi, but good opportunity for him to develop some leadership skills




Hes played really well actually


----------



## Blitzago*

93LEAFS said:


> Juolevi will always be somewhat dependent on the forwards infront of him to look good. His best skills are his 4-way mobility, defensive iq, ability to avoid the fore-check and a quick outlet pass.* If the forwards can't do anything with those passes, he's not going to look too great.* Its why he looks amazing with forwards who are quick in transition (Marner and Puljujarvi) who can take his passes and establish the zone.




That applies to pretty much any D-Man though?


----------



## 93LEAFS

Blitzago said:


> That applies to pretty much any D-Man though?



Sort of, but Juolevi is simply extremely good at playing this simple but efficient game. What he does is not that noticeable if it isn't converted, he gives high-end players the chance to create. Juolevi's reads and the difficult in forechecking him is only maximized with players who can then establish the zone. 

He's not a guy who will try to use his skill set to take over games with consistent end to end rushes or fancy moves. On a bad team, he isn't going to wow you. He doesn't have that cannon shot, doesn't lay bone-crushing hits and plays fairly conservative. His game is tailor-made for this era of the NHL though. He can quickly avoid checks and make the correct read most of the time. In comparison to someone like Sergachev, Sergachev is much more likely to skate up ice and try to establish the zone himself and is deadlier on the powerplay, which tend to catch the eye more than the style in which Juolevi plays.


----------



## BB88

Lucbourdon said:


> Hes played really well actually




Yep.
Behind our garbage goalie and offense our defense has actually been good and I'd say better than last year.
But when you have Vehvi in net and forwards who shoot like 15y olds you don't really focus on that part of the team.

I agree that Juolevi is never going to be Karlsson type of defenseman, but he can be an excellent possession driver and a guy who's tough to beat 1on1.


----------



## SelltheTeamFrancesco

I think he has tried to rush the puck a few time but each time one of his forwards has gone offside. Also I don't think he trust his defense partner.


----------



## McMozesmadness

I still really like Juolevi, but I think the Nucks will be kicking themselves for who they left on the board.


----------



## Canucks LB

I think his stock stayed the same after the world juniors, he was literally the last problem finland had, had a solid tourney all around.

Tkachuk is gonna be a great player, I think Olli could be one also.


----------



## TeddyBare

Enel said:


> Tough tournament for Juolevi, but good opportunity for him to develop some leadership skills





I thought he was decent

lets not forget that Finland as a team only scored 6 goals in 4 games. 1 of those goals came from the D.

And they gave up 8 goals over 4 games

I'd put a huge majority of this loss on coaching and the forwards.


----------



## BB88

TeddyBare said:


> I thought he was decent
> 
> lets not forget that Finland as a team only scored 6 goals in 4 games. 1 of those goals came from the D.
> 
> And they gave up 8 goals over 4 games
> 
> *I'd put a huge majority of this loss on coaching and the forwards.*




Don't forget Vehvi on net.


----------



## docbenton

He may become more of a defense-first puck-moving player like Lindholm or Tanev. Those guys are so valuable in today's game. He's still got some improvements to make but if he can be that type of player and add a bit of offense that's a #1 even if he never scores 50 points.


----------



## Sens of Anarchy

Great breakout passer


----------



## CorgisPer60

Sure, the Canucks may have left better talent on the board when they drafted last year, but Juolevi was consensus top 2 D in the draft, and who did they have in their pipeline before hitting gold with Tryamkin and Stetcher? Gotta build from the back end out, and along with Demko, Juolevi is another pillar of a prospect.


----------



## M2Beezy

CorgisPer60 said:


> Sure, the Canucks may have left better talent on the board when they drafted last year, but Juolevi was consensus top 2 D in the draft, and who did they have in their pipeline before hitting gold with Tryamkin and Stetcher? Gotta build from the back end out, and along with Demko, Juolevi is another pillar of a prospect.




Its hard to see it that way with how well Tkachuck Keller Nylander and maybe Jost are playing but yeah maybe its something to really build on is OUR backend with like you mentioned. I guess we will be patience to see how he does


----------



## SelltheTeamFrancesco

Mogilny to Bure said:


> Its hard to see it that way with how well Tkachuck Keller Nylander and maybe Jost are playing but yeah maybe its something to really build on is OUR backend with like you mentioned. I guess we will be patience to see how he does




Keller had had a decent year on stacked team, being way to over hyped by his wjc which in the past has shown to mean very little. In five years the top 2 dman with be worth more than the dime in a dozen wingers.


----------



## M2Beezy

matsin47 said:


> Keller had had a decent year on stacked team, being way to over hyped by his wjc which in the past has shown to mean very little. In five years the top 2 dman with be worth more than the dime in a dozen wingers.




Yeah thats a good point. My prediction is Juolevi and Mcavoy

But tbh im more just optimistic about Juolevi. Mcavoy WILL be a stud i dont see a way around it. Chych has reached his peak already and i dont see Serg hitting his ceiling


----------



## Sarcastic

This is a new low for you in a lifetime of lows. An 18 year old has peaked 6 months after being drafted. Okay.


----------



## BB88

CorgisPer60 said:


> Sure, the Canucks may have left better talent on the board when they drafted last year, but Juolevi was consensus top 2 D in the draft, and who did they have in their pipeline before hitting gold with Tryamkin and Stetcher? Gotta build from the back end out, and along with Demko, Juolevi is another pillar of a prospect.




Yep. You don't outscore a bad defense in the playoffs.

Juolevi- Tanev
Hutton- Stetcher
Tryamkin- Gubranson

Demko is a nice group to build on.


----------



## lawrence

McMozesmadness said:


> I still really like Juolevi, but I think the Nucks will be kicking themselves for who they left on the board.




nope. Team needed defence far more then another winger. The same could be said for the Oilers.


----------



## izzy

Mogilny to Bure said:


> Yeah thats a good point. My prediction is Juolevi and Mcavoy
> 
> But tbh im more just optimistic about Juolevi. Mcavoy WILL be a stud i dont see a way around it. Chych has reached his peak already and i dont see Serg hitting his ceiling




He's reached his peak at 18???


----------



## Virtanen2Horvat

The kid will be a two-way Dman IMO. He will probably be similar to Hamhuis like some people have said and he won't be flashy or that exciting to watch, but a safe pick. He will definitely be with Tanev, we just need a franchise Dman or a top Dman free agent. 

Juolevi - Tanev 
Hutton - Tryamkin 
Gudbranson - Stecher


----------



## biturbo19

93LEAFS said:


> Sort of, but Juolevi is simply extremely good at playing this simple but efficient game. What he does is not that noticeable if it isn't converted, he gives high-end players the chance to create. Juolevi's reads and the difficult in forechecking him is only maximized with players who can then establish the zone.
> 
> He's not a guy who will try to use his skill set to take over games with consistent end to end rushes or fancy moves. On a bad team, he isn't going to wow you. He doesn't have that cannon shot, doesn't lay bone-crushing hits and plays fairly conservative. His game is tailor-made for this era of the NHL though. He can quickly avoid checks and make the correct read most of the time. In comparison to someone like Sergachev, Sergachev is much more likely to skate up ice and try to establish the zone himself and is deadlier on the powerplay, which tend to catch the eye more than the style in which Juolevi plays.




Yeah. I think it's fair to say that the offensive component of Juolevi's game is probably always going to be more "complementary" in nature, and thus more dependent on forwards who can attack effectively in transition. 

That's not to be confused with having a "low offensive ceiling" though, per se. _If_ you can put some good forwards who can attack with speed in front of Juolevi...his game is perfectly suited to elevating their play, allowing those forwards to play most of the game on the attack, and picking up plenty of points along the way. There's huge upside in that skillset with today's NHL as a "possession beast puckmover" type. It just means that he's not as well equipped to "do it all himself" offensively.


----------



## SelltheTeamFrancesco

Juolevi to me always looks like he wants to rush the puck but never feels confident in his defense partners. Like when he goes in to pinch sometimes he will hesitate so he does not give up a odd man rush ( has no faith in his forwards to cover him). I think with a better structured system in the nhl he could flourish offensively.


----------



## Gsus

I think Juolevi's ceiling is a 40-50pt 2-way Dman. That would make him a #2 or in a really positive outcome (stellar D game) a #1 Dman for his team. 

Vancouver does have some nice pieces in D but none of the really strike as a sure future #1. Tanev is told to be one, but I would wait the offence to light up first. Tryamkin, Stecher, Hutton make a pretty good future for them. I think Juolevi will the guy to have steady D and offence. So he could be their future #1, although not the best around the league. He has that 2-way game that could provide them stability and he could earn a letter some day who knows, he seems that type of a guy.

It's not easy to draw ceilings for players, especially for Dmen. When I watched Ristolainen in the FEL, he never struck me as an offensive guy, his highlights were pretty lame. So I thought okay, he's gonna be a defensive guy pretty much. As of now, Ristolainen has lit it up and his offence has been the better part of the game. Not that he's bad on defence but he has really grown into a good offensive guy and is becoming a good 2-way player, a poor mans Shea Weber some would say. 

So it's funny how players develop and really anything can happen. Also it's easy to see how the 'Nucks fans and some others underrate Juolevi. The fans mostly due to picking him before Tkachuk or that he doesn't provide enough offence or whatever. But in Juolevi I see a very reliable Dman who's smarts are off the charts. That's something you shouldn't underrate. Tkachuk in your future TOP6 is nice, but Juolevi in your future first pairing is going to be even better, in my honest opinion.


----------



## Leon Draisaitl

Gsus said:


> I think Juolevi's ceiling is a 40-50pt 2-way Dman. That would make him a #2 or in a really positive outcome (stellar D game) a #1 Dman for his team.
> 
> Vancouver does have some nice pieces in D but none of the really strike as a sure future #1. Tanev is told to be one, but I would wait the offence to light up first. Tryamkin, Stecher, Hutton make a pretty good future for them. I think Juolevi will the guy to have steady D and offence. So he could be their future #1, although not the best around the league. He has that 2-way game that could provide them stability and he could earn a letter some day who knows, he seems that type of a guy.
> 
> It's not easy to draw ceilings for players, especially for Dmen. When I watched Ristolainen in the FEL, he never struck me as an offensive guy, his highlights were pretty lame. So I thought okay, he's gonna be a defensive guy pretty much. As of now, Ristolainen has lit it up and his offence has been the better part of the game. Not that he's bad on defence but he has really grown into a good offensive guy and is becoming a good 2-way player, a poor mans Shea Weber some would say.
> 
> So it's funny how players develop and really anything can happen. Also it's easy to see how the 'Nucks fans and some others underrate Juolevi. The fans mostly due to picking him before Tkachuk or that he doesn't provide enough offence or whatever. But in Juolevi I see a very reliable Dman who's smarts are off the charts. That's something you shouldn't underrate. Tkachuk in your future TOP6 is nice, but Juolevi in your future first pairing is going to be even better, in my honest opinion.





40-50 points would put him 13th to 25th in dmen scoring last year. If he is a 2 way D as well, that's easily a #1 dman...


----------



## TT1

Yea 40-50 point 2 way dman would be considered close to a top 10 dman in the NHL


----------



## Raistlin

TT1 said:


> Yea 40-50 point 2 way dman would be considered close to a top 10 dman in the NHL




a safe place to expect Juolevi's future is where Hampus Lindholm resides. 30-40 pts 2-way beast. Groom Stecher or Hutton to be the QB and the top 6 is pretty set for the next 5 years. I agree that his game will flourish once he has a familiar system to play in. What he's doing in London lately is very encouraging. IMO, he has a higher ceiling than Hamhuis, who has a ppg season in his +1 year. Cannot wait for next year.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Gsus said:


> I think Juolevi's ceiling is a 40-50pt 2-way Dman. That would make him a #2 or in a really positive outcome (stellar D game) a #1 Dman for his team.
> 
> Vancouver does have some nice pieces in D but none of the really strike as a sure future #1. Tanev is told to be one, but I would wait the offence to light up first. Tryamkin, Stecher, Hutton make a pretty good future for them. I think Juolevi will the guy to have steady D and offence. So he could be their future #1, although not the best around the league. He has that 2-way game that could provide them stability and he could earn a letter some day who knows, he seems that type of a guy.
> 
> It's not easy to draw ceilings for players, especially for Dmen. When I watched Ristolainen in the FEL, he never struck me as an offensive guy, his highlights were pretty lame. So I thought okay, he's gonna be a defensive guy pretty much. As of now, Ristolainen has lit it up and his offence has been the better part of the game. Not that he's bad on defence but he has really grown into a good offensive guy and is becoming a good 2-way player, a poor mans Shea Weber some would say.
> 
> So it's funny how players develop and really anything can happen. Also it's easy to see how the 'Nucks fans and some others underrate Juolevi. The fans mostly due to picking him before Tkachuk or that he doesn't provide enough offence or whatever. But in Juolevi I see a very reliable Dman who's smarts are off the charts. That's something you shouldn't underrate. Tkachuk in your future TOP6 is nice, but Juolevi in your future first pairing is going to be even better, in my honest opinion.






Leon Draisaitl said:


> 40-50 points would put him 13th to 25th in dmen scoring last year. If he is a 2 way D as well, that's easily a #1 dman...






TT1 said:


> Yea 40-50 point 2 way dman would be considered close to a top 10 dman in the NHL



40 to 50 point D-man who plays Juolevi's style game is basically Ryan Suter without the additionial description of insane stamina added. That is a perenial top 10 NHL defender over a long-time period (Suter has finished top 10 in Norris voting for 5 consecutive years).

Suter never wowed people with his stats coming up, and many thought the defencemen with more flash than him were the better players from the 2003 draft for quite a long time (see Dion and Weber). Now, Ryan Suter may be near his ceiling as a 2-way player (but potentially lower than his offensive ceiling) is at worst the 2nd best defender from the 2003 draft, with an argument as the best one. 

I'd take Tkachuk over him for two major reasons, firstly, that forwards in general are much easier to project, so if they are close on talent I would lean towards the forward in most cases. Secondly, Tkachuk is already proving it at the NHL level, and, due to this he has a much higher floor before even factoring in the difficulty projecting young D. But, say both reach their ceiling which is potentially a Ryan Suter type defender or a Cory Perry type power-forward, or maybe more realistically a Vlasic vs Landeskog. I'd probably lean to both defenders in those scenario's.


----------



## Canucks LB

Looks like he just took it up another level since the wjc.

Looking dominant on most nights, putting up good numbers


----------



## M2Beezy

Hold your horses lets see him do it for the rest of the year before we get carried away. Hes trending well lets hope he keeps it up. Mind u he did do this last year too


----------



## Canucks LB

Mogilny to Bure said:


> Hold your horses lets see him do it for the rest of the year before we get carried away. Hes trending well lets hope he keeps it up. Mind u he did do this last year too




Big difference tho.

No tkachuk and marner.


----------



## Aceboogie

Jueolvi is a very interesting pick. He has primarily about smarts (but also good physical tools). Wheres Sergachev was the opposite.

I like the gamble on OJ because if he turns out, hell be a franchise D (as will Sergachev)

Ill say this for Canuck fans- just gotta be patient with him. Ill bet a ton of fans look at Tkachuk and start to question the pick, but given it 3/4 years and youll see why the pick was made. Slightly different but similar thing when Oilers picked Nurse and Flames got Monahan. For 2 years everyone was saying "if only we sucked for a few more games and moved ahead of the games to get him." It became almost inconceivable Nurse could be just as important or even more so. Then 4 years post draft and Nurse has his break out year where you start to see why he was picked and you trust the process


----------



## BB88

He looks great defensively, looks more aggressive offensively compared to past and point production is improving, he scored 9 goals last year and now stands at 8.

But there's really no talk about him here, no hype, no mentions really in any prospect threads.

I hope if he keeps this up he won't spent the next year in London, I don't think it pushes him enough, compared to NHL or playing against men in Europe.


----------



## Snippit

Lucbourdon said:


> Looks like he just took it up another level since the wjc.
> 
> Looking dominant on most nights, putting up good numbers




Agreed, his play has really picked up of late.

Very good defensively and he's been very efficient.


----------



## CherryToke

Mogilny to Bure said:


> Hold your horses lets see him do it for the rest of the year before we get carried away. Hes trending well lets hope he keeps it up. Mind u he did do this last year too




Did what last year? He matched last years goal total tonight in 25 less games.


----------



## 93LEAFS

BB88 said:


> He looks great defensively, looks more aggressive offensively compared to past and point production is improving, he scored 9 goals last year and now stands at 8.
> 
> But there's really no talk about him here, no hype, no mentions really in any prospect threads.
> 
> I hope if he keeps this up he won't spent the next year in London, I don't think it pushes him enough, compared to NHL or playing against men in Europe.



He can't go back to Europe. He's not on loan, so its CHL or NHL. He has to be offered back to the Knights if he isn't on the NHL roster.


----------



## BB88

93LEAFS said:


> He can't go back to Europe. He's not on loan, so its CHL or NHL. He has to be offered back to the Knights if he isn't on the NHL roster.




Dammit if true. I don't think +2 year in juniors gets the max out of him.

Why were there then rumours of him going to Europe for this year, where did they come from?


----------



## 93LEAFS

BB88 said:


> Dammit if true. I don't think +2 year in juniors gets the max out of him.
> 
> Why were there then rumours of him going to Europe for this year, where did they come from?



I don't remember them, but my guess would be an uninformed source speculating. I don't know the standard of sports journalism in Finland, but I could easily see not very reputable writers of any demographic not knowing the CHL-NHL transfer agreement unless they were familiar with it. I don't think this situation has really existed for any big name Finnish prospects outside of Maata. Guys like Nattinen and Kuokannen went to the CHL post draft, and I can't think of a talent who existed in the borderline area like Juolevi. 

I'd say the absolute worst situation for Juolevi isn't actually going back to the Knights, it is actually what happened to a fellow Knight in Nikita Zadorov. Zadorov said he would refuse to report to the Knights and Buffalo, therefore, they couldn't send him back without him threatening to go to Russia. It was a complete disaster for all involved. He ended up getting limited ice-time on a bad team and not developing much. 

The rare exception is when guys are on-loan in their draft year to the CHL and therefore are technically drafted out of the CHL. The most notable case of this being exploited is Honka (which is why some people over there might be confused on Juolevi's situation) and recently William Nylander.


----------



## Canuck Luck

BB88 said:


> Dammit if true. I don't think +2 year in juniors gets the max out of him.
> 
> Why were there then rumours of him going to Europe for this year, where did they come from?




I'm fairly certain players can go to Europe if they want, idk what the other poster is on about; all they have to do is sign a contract with a European team. Former Canuck Nicklas Jensen did just that. He didn't want to go back to Oshawa as at the end of the previous Generals season he suited up n the AHL for the Wolves and potted 4 goals in 6 games. I believe the team was also in a rebuild the next coming season and he felt that would hurt his development as well.

He felt he was better served playing against men in Sweden and went on to do decent there in his 1 season before coming back as he was now eligible to play in the AHL as he was now 20. I don't think he was on loan as he spent 2 seasons in Oshawa


----------



## 93LEAFS

Ched Brosky said:


> players can go to Europe if they want, idk what the other poster is on about; all they have to do is sign a contract with a European team. Former Canuck Nicklas Jensen did just that. He didn't want to go back to Oshawa as at the end of the previous Generals season he suited up n the AHL for the Wolves and potted 4 goals in 6 games. I believe the team was also in a rebuild the next coming season and he felt that would hurt his development as well.
> 
> He felt he was better served playing against men in Sweden and went on to do decent there in his 1 season before coming back as he was now eligible to play in the AHL as he was now 20.



That was a unique situation and it is still unclear exactly what happened. It is believed his contract with Oshawa had expired. In almost all cases the player has to be offered back to the CHL team, and usually, they have long term contracts. So unless someone knows what Juolevi's contractual status is, it is unclear if he could go back next year. 

Maybe Juolevi can pull this maneuver but most likely I think he ends up on the Canucks. Also, I don't know how much teams want to try this with their big name prospects right now. The most notable examples of guys going back to Europe from Juniors to play on big ice are Yakupov, Jensen, and Goldobin, and they aren't really shining examples of player development.

Granted, the CHL is way less likely to heavily fight an import doing this than a homegrown player. A bunch of this is in a gray area, but in general, it is quite a rare situation for a player to go back. It didn't appear to be a viable option for either Zacha or Zadorov.


----------



## SoupyFIN

Juolevi did sign a KHL contract with Jokerit (discussion about it at the end of the first page of this thread) before he committed to London, so idk if that plays into it in any away? But I guess that's nullified now that he's signed his ELC.. 

I'd say he'll be better off playing big minutes with the Knights.


----------



## Enel

How is he doing?


----------



## ihaveyuidonttouchme

Enel said:


> How is he doing?




it's been up (beginning) down (before wjc) up (after wjc) and down again (last few week or so). discouraging to say the least for a top 5 pick guy for the last 2-3 games especially
having some real trouble with "speedy who can use body well ish" fowards to contain them outside. when they have body position on juolevi? , ay ay ay.


----------



## ottawa

Enel said:


> How is he doing?




Doing well offensively, inconsistent defensively and sometimes caught out of position or flat footed. Good transition game.


----------



## lawrence

Enel said:


> How is he doing?




good.

Its been almost 4 weeks from your post to the most recent one which means he's good enough that hfboards.com does not have anything bad to say about him. compare this to the jake Virtanen thread. Liotered with haters with from Ontario with random excuses to drop by the thread with hate. disgusting.


----------



## FinPanda

Nothing really good, nothing really bad I would think.


----------



## PKWeber

Juolevi is not even the best dman on his team, Victor Mete is. I would be concerned if I was a Canucks fan.


----------



## lawrence

DJKhaled said:


> Juolevi is not even the best dman on his team, Victor Mete is. I would be concerned if I was a Canucks fan.




straight from Canucks.com



> I recently had the opportunity to watch a few knights games as I have been watching my cousin on the team. It was amazing watching Ollie control the pace of the game. He made very few if any mistakes. Made crisp accurate passes in stride and really drove the offense. He put up numbers in all the games. Talking to some staff, players and player parents they all agreed he was as smart as they come and smooth as butter. His shot could use work buy it should improve with weight and strength. My cousin says off the ice Ollie is a real quite well mannered kid who really likes Canadian culture. I was very impressed. Other players that stood out were; mete (montreal) and crawley (un drafted 19 year old). Also rasannen on kingston skates like a newborn deer.





only on hfboards.com does Canucks prospects get this much hate. 

telling us to be concerned. pfft.


----------



## Uncle Scrooge

I still think he's going to be more of a great/elite #3 than a 1st pairing guy. Should've picked Tkachuk.


----------



## Loffer

Juolevi might have motivational issues. Chill, guys. He will be fine once he gets something to chew on again. The kid is too good and too lauded to play still some immature junior hockey in Ontario.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Loffer said:


> Juolevi might have motivational issues. Chill, guys. He will be fine once he gets something to chew on again. The kid is too good and too lauded to play still some immature junior hockey in Ontario.



I doubt he has motivational issues. His team is going for consecutive OHL championships and Memorial cups. If he does, that would be a concerning issues.


----------



## Advanced stats

lawrence said:


> straight from Canucks.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only on hfboards.com does Canucks prospects get this much hate.
> 
> telling us to be concerned. pfft.





Shocker that a Canucks website/writer would write something positive about a Canucks prospect. 

That's never happened before has it?


----------



## 93LEAFS

my name is Bob said:


> Shocker that a Canucks website/writer would write something positive about a Canucks prospect.
> 
> That's never happened before has it?



It didn't even meet that standard. It was just another poster on a different forum. A new low for a source on this site.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/377676-olli-juolevi-talk/?page=162


----------



## Josepho

One thing I'm concerned about is the obsession with adding muscle rather than speed. 

I think an improved first step would help him more than some extra muscle. He's at a bit of an awkward stage where he isn't exactly fast or strong.


----------



## Kaako Kappo

Josepho said:


> One thing I'm concerned about is the obsession with adding muscle rather than speed.
> 
> I think an improved first step would help him more than some extra muscle. He's at a bit of an awkward stage where he isn't exactly fast or strong.




I think the muscle has to come before the speed, because the muscle helps him get the explosive speed.


----------



## Advanced stats

93LEAFS said:


> It didn't even meet that standard. It was just another poster on a different forum. A new low for a source on this site.
> 
> http://forum.canucks.com/topic/377676-olli-juolevi-talk/?page=162




Well that's a whole other level of pathetic. Could be the same poster?


----------



## Robongo01

Blunder said:


> I still think he's going to be more of a great/elite #3 than a 1st pairing guy. Should've picked Tkachuk.




I get that vibe from him as well. Any logical non-Canucks fan/non homer would agree the obvious choice was Tkachuk. Got to stop drafting for positional needs and just take the damn BPA that early on in the first round


----------



## Nalyd Psycho

Robongo01 said:


> I get that vibe from him as well. Any logical non-Canucks fan/non homer would agree the obvious choice was Tkachuk. Got to stop drafting for positional needs and just take the damn BPA that early on in the first round




I preferred Keller and Seragachev to both of them. (And, admitting it would be a boom or bust pick, was pulling for them to take Jost.) I have questioned Juolevi 's upside since the beginning and I questioned how much Tkachuk was responsible for his success. I may be wrong about Tkachuk but while Juolevi doesn't Excite me, the pick is not a problem pick.


----------



## M2Beezy

Should of gone

1 Matthews 
2 Laine
3 Pullji 
4 Tkachuck 
5 PLD
6 Keller
7 Jost
8 Juolevi
9 Mcavoy
10 Brown

I think Tkachuck will end up the third best and maybe Keller as hi as 4 and mcavoy the best dman juolevi the 2nd best


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

Mogilny to Bure said:


> Should of gone
> 
> 1 Matthews
> 2 Laine
> 3 Pullji
> 4 Tkachuck
> 5 PLD
> 6 Keller
> 7 Jost
> 8 Juolevi
> 9 Mcavoy
> 10 Brown
> 
> I think Tkachuck will end up the third best and maybe Keller as hi as 4 and mcavoy the best dman juolevi the 2nd best




I think in a few years there will be more defenseman in that list. Hard to judge from Junior play


----------



## Sarcastic

93LEAFS said:


> Hoping Juolevi can have a strong playoffs. Would love to see him help London to lift the Memorial Cup in Windsor. It just seems he hasn't taken that next step this year that many were hoping for. He still has a very high floor, and it will be interesting to see where he ends up as he adds strength and explosiveness. He was always the least physically developed out of McAvoy, Sergachev, and Chychrun.




I want to know your opinion on how he'd do if theoretically he was able to move up to the NHL or AHL. It might have been you or someone else earlier in this thread that suggested that perhaps he's unable to take advantage of his strengths just because of the system and/or personnel that's present in London. What systems would allow him to perform better, and would having more experienced players be a plus to his development?


----------



## 93LEAFS

Sarcastic said:


> I want to know your opinion on how he'd do if theoretically he was able to move up to the NHL or AHL. It might have been you or someone else earlier in this thread that suggested that perhaps he's unable to take advantage of his strengths just because of the system and/or personnel that's present in London. What systems would allow him to perform better, and would having more experienced players be a plus to his development?



Don't think it was me who said it was system based. He's always played a very reserved game, his skill set is built around great 4-way mobility and making crisp outlet passes and the correct read. I would have hoped he could have taken a more offensive role this year, but Mete has stepped up in that regard, and they have added Vande Sompel. I don't think it would be systems issue, Hunter plays a pretty offensive game. 

I haven't seen a significant amount of him this year. I have a feeling he is being used similarly to last year, although London is rolling their lines much more than last year. The impression I get from talking to big Knight fans and people around the league is that his play has leveled off. That's not to say another massive growth won't happen.


----------



## biturbo19

Josepho said:


> One thing I'm concerned about is the obsession with adding muscle rather than speed.
> 
> I think an improved first step would help him more than some extra muscle. He's at a bit of an awkward stage where he isn't exactly fast or strong.




I think those two components can be, and often are pretty much one and the same. Adding more "muscle", strength and power to the lower body and core where hockey players carry a lot of their "bulk" can help with that explosiveness in the skating. Two birds, one stone.

It's when prospects start adding frivolous weight that slows them down that it's a problem, and that can certainly happen. Hopefully that's not where he goes with things this summer. I'd hope a top prospect is getting better guidance than that, but you never know i guess.


----------



## Flames Fanatic

I think it's too easy to look at the success Tkachuk is having and be unhappy with the Juolevi pick. Defensemen generally take more time. I don't think anyone was predicting this kind of draft +1 season for Tkachuk. 

I know I certainly wasn't. 

I said it in the Demko thread too, sometimes patience is required with prospects. Can't give up so early.


----------



## lawrence

Flames Fanatic said:


> I think it's too easy to look at the success Tkachuk is having and be unhappy with the Juolevi pick. Defensemen generally take more time. I don't think anyone was predicting this kind of draft +1 season for Tkachuk.
> 
> I know I certainly wasn't.
> 
> I said it in the Demko thread too, sometimes patience is required with prospects. Can't give up so early.




No one is giving up here except for MTb, and non Canucks fans trying their absolute best to discourage Canucks fans from being excited about him. Most Canuck fans are happy with the pick, and most of them are fully aware of what type of users are responding to Canucks prospect threads. We have plenty of legit people who actually watch juolevi play that is keeping us up to date, ironically the same Brock boeser, there is one guy that helping us tabs on him. 

Let see put it this way, we know how good he is actually doing. His teammates cousin is keeping us up to date, but those comments are a "a new low source" so there's really no point for me to post the 

From what it sounds like the only things he needs to work on is strength and his strength on his shot. 

[mod]


----------



## Coaches Coroner

lawrence said:


> No one is giving up here except for MTb, and non Canucks fans trying their absolute best to discourage Canucks fans from being excited about him. Most Canuck fans are happy with the pick, and most of them are fully aware of what type of users are responding to Canucks prospect threads. We have plenty of legit people who actually watch juolevi play that is keeping us up to date, ironically the same Brock boeser, there is one guy that helping us tabs on him.
> 
> Let see put it this way, we know how good he is actually doing. His teammates cousin is keeping us up to date, but those comments are a "a new low source" so there's really no point for me to post the
> 
> From what it sounds like the only things he needs to work on is strength and his strength on his shot.




5 Canuck fans in the last thread alone disagree with your complaining of other teams fans like 93Leafs. People are discussing a player, some of those people have seen him and are offering up their assessments. Nothing more, no conspiracy to suppress the joy of Canuck fans.


----------



## Tim Raines

Mogilny to Bure said:


> Should of gone
> 
> 1 Matthews
> 2 Laine
> 3 Pullji
> 4 Tkachuck
> 5 PLD
> 6 Keller
> 7 Jost
> 8 Juolevi
> 9 Mcavoy
> 10 Brown
> 
> I think Tkachuck will end up the third best and maybe Keller as hi as 4 and mcavoy the best dman juolevi the 2nd best




You think Brown is the better prospect than Sergachev right now eh? Can't say I agree but interesting. In fact, I'd almost argue McLeod could/should have surpassed Brown based on this year.

As for Juolevi, I think he is a great system piece. A good complementary guy to a team's nucleus. He'll never be a dominant #1, but he will fit seamlessly into most lineups. I hate to use the word "safe" but he really is.


----------



## M2Beezy

Torgo said:


> 5 Canuck fans in the last thread alone disagree with your complaining of other teams fans like 93Leafs. People are discussing a player, some of those people have seen him and are offering up their assessments. Nothing more, no conspiracy to suppress the joy of Canuck fans.




Make it 6. That poster is always posting like that unfortunately. just for me reading thru this last few pages i can see 93Leafs is a good source for us to get info about Juolevi


----------



## M2Beezy

lawrence said:


> No one is giving up here except for MTb, and non Canucks fans trying their absolute best to discourage Canucks fans from being excited about him. Most Canuck fans are happy with the pick, and most of them are fully aware of what type of users are responding to Canucks prospect threads. We have plenty of legit people who actually watch juolevi play that is keeping us up to date, ironically the same Brock boeser, there is one guy that helping us tabs on him.
> 
> Let see put it this way, we know how good he is actually doing. His teammates cousin is keeping us up to date, but those comments are a "a new low source" so there's really no point for me to post the
> 
> From what it sounds like the only things he needs to work on is strength and his strength on his shot.




Show me where ive given up on him PLEASE. I said we should of drafted other players instead of him because they were/are better. I think its obvi he will be a nhl dman and probably a middle pair but i hope to the heavens he can become a #1 stud. But hope and reality are not always the same thing bub try to grab a clue


----------



## Bankerguy

I watched more than half of his games this season...I tried to pay extra close attention to him.

The guy is a stud. Going to be a 30-35 point, two-way, top pairing #2 dman. One of those mistake free guys who makes key plays in all three zones, a real unsung hero type. 

Reminds me of a less offensive and kind of taller version of Sergei Zubov circa 1996-2000


----------



## Flames Fanatic

lawrence said:


> No one is giving up here except for MTb, and non Canucks fans trying their absolute best to discourage Canucks fans from being excited about him. Most Canuck fans are happy with the pick, and most of them are fully aware of what type of users are responding to Canucks prospect threads. We have plenty of legit people who actually watch juolevi play that is keeping us up to date, ironically the same Brock boeser, there is one guy that helping us tabs on him.
> 
> Let see put it this way, we know how good he is actually doing. His teammates cousin is keeping us up to date, but those comments are a "a new low source" so there's really no point for me to post the
> 
> From what it sounds like the only things he needs to work on is strength and his strength on his shot.




Sorry. Give up was the wrong terminology on my part. I meant it in the sense that it's too early to say that Tkachuk should have gone before. Just because he's making an impact now doesn't mean that Juolevi won't have a bigger one in the future sort of thing.


----------



## lawrence

Bankerguy said:


> I watched more than half of his games this season...I tried to pay extra close attention to him.
> 
> The guy is a stud. Going to be a 30-35 point, two-way, top pairing #2 dman. One of those mistake free guys who makes key plays in all three zones, a real unsung hero type.
> 
> Reminds me of a less offensive and kind of taller version of Sergei Zubov circa 1996-2000




totally fine with that. I wasn't expecting him to be a number 1 defensemen either. Of course, the dream is he becomes the next LIdstrom lol.


----------



## polarbearcub

lawrence said:


> totally fine with that. I wasn't expecting him to be a number 1 defensemen either. Of course, the dream is he becomes the next LIdstrom lol.




Ollie is the new age type of d man. Puck retrieval and transition.


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

I like Juolevi a lot - and always have - but I don't feel his game has progressed much this year. I'm not entirely sure why. 

I wouldn't be surprised if he's back in London for another season.


----------



## BB88

UsernameWasTaken said:


> I like Juolevi a lot - and always have - but I don't feel his game has progressed much this year. I'm not entirely sure why.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if he's back in London for another season.




I'd like to see him play pro hockey next year.

Learn to play against stronger guys. I think he was build to play pro game, and will/would look better in pro league in comparison to OHL.


----------



## Ryp37

BB88 said:


> I'd like to see him play pro hockey next year.
> 
> Learn to play against stronger guys. I think he was build to play pro game, and will/would look better in pro league in comparison to OHL.




Wouldn't mind him going to Finland for a year to do exactly this.


----------



## JJTT

BB88 said:


> I'd like to see him play pro hockey next year.
> 
> Learn to play against stronger guys. I think he was build to play pro game, and will/would look better in pro league in comparison to OHL.






Ryp37 said:


> Wouldn't mind him going to Finland for a year to do exactly this.




He had multiple offers to play pro hockey in Europe this season but declined them. Can't see next season being any different.


----------



## lawrence

JJTT said:


> He had multiple offers to play pro hockey in Europe this season but declined them. Can't see next season being any different.




he should take the offer next summer. he has a NHL style mindset but his body might not be ready to take a hitting. another year will be ideal


----------



## Elias Pettersson

2 goals in 2 playoff games. Another snipe after a turnover by Sergachev, who's looking bad defensively.

https://streamable.com/e7s25


----------



## Sergei Shirokov

here's his first goal in game 1 (couple different angles)

https://streamable.com/7vjfh

https://streamable.com/6aw84


----------



## Canucks LB

He is having a nice start to the playoffs


----------



## SelltheTeamFrancesco

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Should of gone
> 
> 1 Matthews
> 2 Laine
> 3 Pullji
> 4 Tkachuck
> 5 PLD
> 6 Keller
> 7 Jost
> 8 Juolevi
> 9 Mcavoy
> 10 Brown
> 
> I think Tkachuck will end up the third best and maybe Keller as hi as 4 and mcavoy the best dman juolevi the 2nd best




Stop reading after Jost .Nylander,Juolevi,Sergachev and maybe Brown (some people like button were pumping his tires big time) were way better prospects at the time.


----------



## DudeWhereIsMakar

I know what Flames fans are saying about Tkachuk, but Tkachuk would be a better fit for Calgary so Canucks fans you're not missing out, it's as much as a win-win as Toronto taking Matthews and Winnipeg taking Laine.

I see Juolevi being the best D on the Canucks for a long time, and I'm not saying he'll be the best D in the NHL or a Norris candidate, but has potential to be one of the best Canucks defensemen of all time like Ohlund, Salo, etc.


----------



## Breakers

uTurris said:


> I know what Flames fans are saying about Tkachuk, but Tkachuk would be a better fit for Calgary so Canucks fans you're not missing out, it's as much as a win-win as Toronto taking Matthews and Winnipeg taking Laine.
> 
> *I see Juolevi being the best D on the Canucks for a long time, and I'm not saying he'll be the best D in the NHL or a Norris candidate, but has potential to be one of the best Canucks defensemen of all time like Ohlund, Salo, etc*.





I don't see it.

Other D-men in chosen after him are showing A LOT more development


----------



## Icebreakers

Tbh all he said is that he has the potential to be the greatest canuck D of all time. Passing guys like Ohlund and Salo isnt a far stretch at all. If he can do prime Hamhuis over the span of 10 years he will already be the best Canuck dman of all time.


----------



## Passchendaele

Icebreakers said:


> Tbh all he said is that he has the potential to be the greatest canuck D of all time. Passing guys like Ohlund and Salo isnt a far stretch at all. If he can do prime Hamhuis over the span of 10 years he will already be the best Canuck dman of all time.




Jovanovski?

All-star. Gold medal winner.


----------



## Love

He doesn't impress me when I watch him. Hope he proves me wrong but as of right now it looks like Benning's two most important picks as a GM were huge mistakes.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

Love said:


> He doesn't impress me when I watch him. Hope he proves me wrong but as of right now it looks like Benning's two most important picks as a GM were huge mistakes.




I've always been pretty skeptical of the Juolevi pick as he just had so much exposure in his draft year playing on the best teams out there in London and Finland. Always wondered where he would have been picked if he wasn't on those teams.

That said I've finally had the chance to actually watch him play (apart from Canucks camp) in these last two games that were televised on sportsnet.

I was impressed, he's a low event low risk guy but the way he battles on the boards and uses body position to win board battles and takes time and space away from defenders coming in on the rush screams of a guy who is going to have success as an NHL defender. I don't think he'll ever be much of an offensive defenseman as he isn't aggressive at all but he does have great passing and puck skills with a decent shot so he won't be a black hole offensively either. I really think Dan Hamhuis is a good comparable. Just a solid 2 way defender that will be a great 2nd pairing guy or 1st pairing if paired with an elite puck moving guy.


----------



## Canucks LB

If you want a dynamic guy, who makes you go wow once in awhile, you are not going to find that with juolevi.

if you want a fast, smart, puck moving, passing d-man who makes the right plays most of the time, that's what he is.


----------



## lawrence

Lucbourdon said:


> If you want a dynamic guy, who makes you go wow once in awhile, you are not going to find that with juolevi.
> 
> if you want a fast, smart, puck moving, passing d-man who makes the right plays most of the time, that's what he is.




agree, like a ryan suter / or a vlasic type. sometimes I do hope to see him rush the puck up a little more.


----------



## UsernameWasTaken

Love said:


> He doesn't impress me when I watch him. Hope he proves me wrong but as of right now it looks like Benning's two most important picks as a GM were huge mistakes.




I like him a lot, was happy when the Canucks selected him, and have defended him - but imo this past season was a disappointment - he really didn't take much of a step forward. I will not turn on him - but to be blunt - he really needs to start progressing more - and for those who are thinking he might play for the Canucks next season, he is currently not NHL ready at all, imo.


----------



## Canucks LB

Holy moly juolevi is playing amazing in this game 7


----------



## Canucks LB

Booooooom snipe goal wow!


----------



## King In The North

Prime Tobi Enstrom a good comparison?


----------



## Canucks LB

Hes having a hell of a game and solid series


----------



## Canucks LB

King In The North said:


> Prime Tobi Enstrom a good comparison?




Think dan hamhuis prime


----------



## Donuts

damm joulevi you scary


----------



## King In The North

I liked Hamhuis. He was excellent at stopping Hartley's stretch passes during the Cgy-Van playoff series


----------



## Neil Hamburger

Something to remember: the Knights lost Marner, Tkachuk, and Dvorak between last season and this season.

The fact that Juolevi put up the same # of points this year as last year without those guys, means he took a solid step forward offensively. He had to create much more of his offense himself this year.


----------



## Canucks LB

Neil Hamburger said:


> Something to remember: the Knights lost Marner, Tkachuk, and Dvorak between last season and this season.
> 
> The fact that Juolevi put up the same # of points this year as last year without those guys, means he took a solid step forward offensively. He had to create much more of his offense himself this year.




That was a workmans job this playoff series, He turned it up offensively, this is huge.

He opened a few eyes, including mine.


----------



## docbenton

I didn't think he had the chance to make many offensive plays but he played very well defensively and executed on the chance he got, which is what good players do. He showed improved strength, an improved shot and willingness to battle with anyone (knocked down Brown in the slot, for example). The skating can be more dynamic, that's what he needs to work on once London loses to Erie...


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Juolevi definitely outperformed Sergachev this series. First time I've got to see them head to head. 

Juolevi is much more defensively sound than Sergachev. 
Sergachev has a better offensive skill set but was outperformed offensively (while on a better team) by Juolevi.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Desmond Hume said:


> Juolevi definitely outperformed Sergachev this series. First time I've got to see them head to head.
> 
> Juolevi is much more defensively sound than Sergachev.
> Sergachev has a better offensive skill set but was outperformed offensively *(while on a better team)* by Juolevi.



Windsor isn't better than the Knights. Regular season and the playoffs proved that. Both teams are quite deep with offensive talent, neither has a significant edge.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

93LEAFS said:


> Windsor isn't better than the Knights. Regular season and the playoffs proved that. Both teams are quite deep with offensive talent, neither has a significant edge.




Sorry I meant in that they have the more recognizable names. Idk them as a team in general, but a lot of good prospects on Windsor


----------



## Love

93LEAFS said:


> Windsor isn't better than the Knights. Regular season and the playoffs proved that. Both teams are quite deep with offensive talent, neither has a significant edge.




Yeah London is surprisingly deep. I feel like people spoke of them as if they took a massive step back and they did in losing Tkachuk, Dvorak, and Marner, but they're deeper than people think.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Desmond Hume said:


> Sorry I meant in that they have the more recognizable names. Idk them as a team in general, but a lot of good prospects on Windsor



Yeah, Windsor has some more notable names, but in general, they are younger than the notable London guys. London has some very good 19-year-olds with experience in Mitchell Stephens and Parsons and very good veteran overagers in Salituro, McDonald, and Piccinich. Plus, some of their 18-year-olds have made big strides in guys like Pu and Mete. Entering the series I would have gambled on London.

It will be interesting to see how London deals with Erie. These guys have met every year for the last 3 seasons and are in the same division, so there is familiarity. Erie probably has the 2 best players on the ice at the OHL level (Strome and Debrincat). Juolevi is going to see some very tough minutes this round.


----------



## Canucks LB

Juolevi has been a defensive beast this series, man he has been so damn good these playoffs.

Erie london going to game 7

People thought it would be erie in 4


----------



## Kaako Kappo

Lucbourdon said:


> Juolevi has been a defensive beast this series, man he has been so damn good these playoffs.
> 
> Erie london going to game 7
> 
> People thought it would be erie in 4




Wait, you're telling me he isn't a bust?


----------



## WonderTwinsUnite

Rambokala said:


> Wait, you're telling me he isn't a bust?




I don't think anyone has said he's a bust save for a few very loud, obnoxious outliers. However, for most Canucks fans, myself included, he wasn't the guy we wanted at 5 last year. That was either Tkachuk or Keller, mostly the former.

Reality is that the past season has supported most of the fanbases' initial concern that we made the wrong pick, even if it won't be definitively proven until their careers are wrapped up. 

I'll be the first guy to admit that it sucks for Juolevi, because now he's forced to not only live upto expectations of being a top-five pick, but to be a "success" in the eyes of a lot of fans, he has to at least match, if not exceed, the career successes of Tkachuk and Keller.


----------



## Canucks LB

Keller has done nothing yet


----------



## King In The North

I'd still be happy as a Canucks fan. If Vancouver went Tkachuk, I was banking on Juolevi or Keller.

Olli will provide a calm presence on the top pairing. People put way too much into junior stat totals.


----------



## madmike77

Lucbourdon said:


> Juolevi has been a defensive beast this series, man he has been so damn good these playoffs.
> 
> Erie london going to game 7
> 
> People thought it would be erie in 4




To be fair, Erie has looked like the better team. 

London has Parsons though, so it's anybody's series at this point.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

He's actually looked so much better than Sergachev recently


----------



## lawrence

King In The North said:


> I'd still be happy as a Canucks fan. If Vancouver went Tkachuk, I was banking on Juolevi or Keller.
> 
> Olli will provide a calm presence on the top pairing. People put way too much into junior stat totals.




I was happy with the pick from day 1. This team needed a dman and 90 percent of nuck fans went into the season hoping they can tank for chycrun. 

But tvh Erie is overwhelming the knights. Parson is bailing them.


----------



## Canucks LB

Kid is great, what a god damn rock.

Erie up 4-3 tho, Not much that can be done. Great run!


----------



## Canucks LB

GOALLL 4-4 JUOLEVI 2 assists! wow big game player.

London scored with 1 min left!!!

4-4!

Under review: It's GOOD!!!!!!!!!! 4-4!


----------



## KILLger

Two secondary assists on the PP and a -3.

This game is all Parsons.


----------



## lawrence

KILLger said:


> Two secondary assists on the PP and a -3.
> 
> This game is all Parsons.




This series is all Parsons.


----------



## Canucks LB

KILLger said:


> Two secondary assists on the PP and a -3.
> 
> This game is all Parsons.




Goes to show +- is such a pointless stat. Only 1 goal was from a Juolevi pinch and a deflection, the others no chance just random -

He has been great defensively.

I think he has played over 30 minutes lol

Parsons tho has been amazing this entire series


----------



## Canucks LB

His season is over

5-4 Erie, what a great series and playoffs for olli.


----------



## lawrence

Lucbourdon said:


> His season is over
> 
> 5-4 Erie, what a great series and playoffs for olli.




the better team won, the much better team won. Surprised it didn't end in 4. lol credits to Parson too.


----------



## Canucks LB

lawrence said:


> the better team won, the much better team won. Surprised it didn't end in 4. lol credits to Parson too.




Parson was outstanding


----------



## monster_bertuzzi

People are just silly...he will likely be one of the better defenseman this dim franchise has ever seen.


----------



## King In The North

monster_bertuzzi said:


> People are just silly...he will likely be one of the better defenseman this dim franchise has ever seen.




Bieksa, Edler, Salo...Hamhuis? I hope I'm not missing anyone obvious.


----------



## Hansen

King In The North said:


> Bieksa, Edler, Salo...Hamhuis? I hope I'm not missing anyone obvious.




Hamhuis is probably the best defenceman in franchise history. Ohlund had huge upside but eye injury derailed that.

Have to go back to Lumme otherwise imo


----------



## clunk

King In The North said:


> Bieksa, Edler, Salo...Hamhuis? I hope I'm not missing anyone obvious.




Ohlund, Paul Reinhart, Jovanovski, Lumme to name a few more.


----------



## King In The North

clunk said:


> Ohlund, Paul Reinhart, Jovanovski, Lumme to name a few more.




Right! Forgot about Ohlund, that should've been obvious.


----------



## Keke

I hope he gets invited to the WHC Camp


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

Keke said:


> I hope he gets invited to the WHC Camp




What's Fins defence looking like ?? Who are the sure-fire nhlers playing ?


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

DownGoesMcDavid said:


> What's Fins defence looking like ?? Who are the sure-fire nhlers playing ?



Looking bad. Potential NHLers there are Lindell, Honka and maybe Jokipakka.


----------



## D0ctorCool

Hansen 36 said:


> *Hamhuis is probably the best defenceman in franchise history.* Ohlund had huge upside but eye injury derailed that.
> 
> Have to go back to Lumme otherwise imo




Which is funny/depressing when you consider that at the time we acquired Hamhuis, he was Nashville's 3rd best defenceman.

If the Canucks could ever land a true #1 D, the city would worship him.


----------



## jalperi

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> Looking bad. Potential NHLers there are Lindell, Honka and maybe Jokipakka.




Lindell dont come, contractless, already declined. Jokipakka has same issue. Honka is only one on WC team thought Nutivaara are potential to come.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

jalperi said:


> Lindell dont come, contractless, already declined. Jokipakka has same issue. Honka is only one on WC team thought Nutivaara are potential to come.



Nutivaara would be a huge addition, he's been so solid this season. If Nutivaara and Honka both come, I can't see a role for Juolevi in the team.


----------



## Grantham

Chris McKinlay said:


> Which is funny/depressing when you consider that at the time we acquired Hamhuis, he was Nashville's 3rd best defenceman.
> 
> If the Canucks could ever land a true #1 D, the city would worship him.




IMO Tanev has been a much better than Hamhuis ever was, even in his prime I would easily take Tanev. Hamhuis was good when he got here, solid, but nothing more.

Watched most of the London Erie series. Juolevi was the best defender for either side I thought.


----------



## monster_bertuzzi

Grantham said:


> IMO Tanev has been a much better than Hamhuis ever was, even in his prime I would easily take Tanev. Hamhuis was good when he got here, solid, but nothing more.
> 
> Watched most of the London Erie series. Juolevi was the best defender for either side I thought.




Everyone is welcome to their opinion but Tanev is nowhere near prime Hamhuis seeing as he provides zero offense. Willie Mitchell is Tanev's comparable.


----------



## Stawks

monster_bertuzzi said:


> Everyone is welcome to their opinion but Tanev is nowhere near prime Hamhuis seeing as he provides zero offense. Willie Mitchell is Tanev's comparable.




Not exactly a Canucks historian, but I'd always assumed Ed Jovanovski was the best Canucks D?

If it's Dan Hamhuis, I mean, damn... Most teams have multiple defenseman right now who are better than Hamhuis ever was, let alone franchise history...

No disrespect to Hamhuis, ofc, a good defenseman but jeeze...


----------



## King In The North

Prime Hamhuis was an Olympic candidate...


----------



## Josepho

Stawks said:


> Not exactly a Canucks historian, but I'd always assumed Ed Jovanovski was the best Canucks D?
> 
> If it's Dan Hamhuis, I mean, damn... *Most teams have multiple defenseman right now who are better than Hamhuis ever was*, let alone franchise history...
> 
> No disrespect to Hamhuis, ofc, a good defenseman but jeeze...




Name 16 teams with multiple defencemen better than prime Hamhuis. Just warning you, you can't. You won't even come close.


----------



## SelltheTeamFrancesco

Hansen 36 said:


> Hamhuis is probably the best defenceman in franchise history. Ohlund had huge upside but eye injury derailed that.
> 
> Have to go back to Lumme otherwise imo




What Ohlund l was easily better than hamuis in his prime, the best defenceman was probably Edler during his prime was as close to a number one defenceman as the canucks have had. Also I forgot Jonanovski who was beast for a couple seasons. I would not put hamuis in my top 5 dman of all time for the Canucks


----------



## nowhereman

Chris McKinlay said:


> Which is funny/depressing when you consider that at the time we acquired Hamhuis, he was Nashville's 3rd best defenceman.
> 
> If the Canucks could ever land a true #1 D, the city would worship him.



Ed Jovanovski was a 45-50 point defender (in the DPE) who could work the PP, play tough, log big minutes and was a two-time Canadian Olympian. How was he not a #1D?


----------



## TeddyBare

Hamhuis isnt a good comparable

Corey Pronman said he is Lindholm "light". Simpson who is london's GM also threw out the lindholm comp as well. 

I see that comparison 10X more than Hamhuis.

Strong skater, great passing, OK offense. Incredible shot suppression, and strong possession.


----------



## JumpierPegasus

nowhereman said:


> Ed Jovanovski was a 45-50 point defender (in the DPE) who could work the PP, play tough, log big minutes and was a two-time Canadian Olympian. How was he not a #1D?




Jovocop was way too inconsistent to ever be a teams #1 guy. All the talent was there, but had trouble stringing together games

Lumme was better than Hammer, and Reinhart was the best pure skill defender we have ever had


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Juolevi pleasantly surprised me this year. He maintained similar offense with a much weaker London team and played some amazing defence in the playoffs. Compare that to a disappointing season from Sergachev, I think Juolevi has started to separate away from him.


----------



## bossram

TeddyBare said:


> Hamhuis isnt a good comparable
> 
> Corey Pronman said he is Lindholm "light". Simpson who is london's GM also threw out the lindholm comp as well.
> 
> I see that comparison 10X more than Hamhuis.
> 
> *Strong skater, great passing, OK offense. Incredible shot suppression, and strong possession*.




That sounds like... you're basically describing prime Dan Hamhuis. Lindholm is the upscaled version. 

Hamhuis was a fantastic skater, and was good at outlet passes. Best aspects was obviously shot suppression on defense, while playing the tough minutes. He showed he could give you some passable offence if used on the PP and in the Ozone, but that typically wasn't the role he was given. 

I'd he perfectly happy if that's what Juolevi turns into in relatively short order.


----------



## The Iron Goalie

Well................................with Tryamkin bolting for Russia, I guess a spot just opened up on the Canucks blue line...........I hate being a Nucks fan sometimes


----------



## Kudo Shinichi

Desmond Hume said:


> Juolevi pleasantly surprised me this year. He maintained similar offense with a much weaker London team and played some amazing defence in the playoffs. Compare that to a disappointing season from Sergachev, I think Juolevi has started to separate away from him.




Sergachev was nominated for the top OHL defenseman this year
Juolevi was not nominated.

?


----------



## Canucks LB

KawaYui said:


> Sergachev was nominated for the top OHL defenseman this year
> Juolevi was not nominated.
> 
> ?



Sergachev was awful in the playoffs, Juolevi played like 30 minutes a game and was incredible defensively.


----------



## Starry Knight

Lucbourdon said:


> Sergachev was awful in the playoffs, Juolevi played like 30 minutes a game and was incredible defensively.




And Juolevi was disappointing pretty much all of the regular season


----------



## Daximus

Desmond Hume said:


> Juolevi pleasantly surprised me this year. He maintained similar offense with a much weaker London team and played some amazing defence in the playoffs. Compare that to a disappointing season from Sergachev, I think Juolevi has started to separate away from him.




Uhhh what? Sergachev had far from a dissapointing season. He outplayed Juolevi this year and dispite what he did in the playoffs I'm mot so sure you can put a massive amount of stock into it given their gauranteed a trip to the Mem Cup.


----------



## TeddyBare

Daximus said:


> Uhhh what? Sergachev had far from a dissapointing season. He outplayed Juolevi this year and dispite what he did in the playoffs *I'm mot so sure you can put a massive amount of stock into it given their gauranteed a trip to the Mem Cup.*





You can't put stock into blowing a 3-1 series lead.

ummm ok


----------



## Canucks LB

Starry Knight said:


> And Juolevi was disappointing pretty much all of the regular season




He was ppg basically with no marner tkachuk


----------



## lawrence

Starry Knight said:


> And Juolevi was disappointing pretty much all of the regular season




how was he a "disappointment *all of the regular season*"?

please kindly explain.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Lucbourdon said:


> He was ppg basically with no marner tkachuk



Except no Marner and Tkachuk meant more PP time. Many actually expected it to rise with more opportunity. It's not like it affected who dramatically raised his ppg this year. 

Juolevi has played well in the playoffs, but I wouldn't say he's dramatically surpassed Sergachev like some have claimed or that his season was a success offensively in regards to what was expected. London still had a hell of a lot of firepower. 

Both Juolevi and Sergachev have had ups and downs this year. I don't think one has clearly surpassed the other.


----------



## Daximus

TeddyBare said:


> You can't put stock into blowing a 3-1 series lead.
> 
> ummm ok




You can for sure but that is a team effort. Sergachev is not directly responsible for their wins or loses. You have to look at his individual efforts of which it's hard to find fault in the regular season.


----------



## D0ctorCool

lawrence said:


> how was he a "disappointment *all of the regular season*"?
> 
> please kindly explain.




Juolevi wasn't a disappointment per se. But it was disappointing that there wasn't much progression to his offensive game in his D+1 season. And we knew Finland would take a big leap backwards in the WJR's with the loss of Pulju, Aho, and Laine. But it just sucked to watch him captain one of the worst Finland performances in recent history after utter dominance the year before. It's not fair to pin that on him, it's just that it was disappointing. 

It's fine. I'm not worried about him. But I'd be lying if I said he had the kind of season I was hoping he would have. So in that regard, I could see how his season could be labelled a disappointment.


----------



## Canucks LB

Chris McKinlay said:


> Juolevi wasn't a disappointment per se. But it was disappointing that there wasn't much progression to his offensive game in his D+1 season. And we knew Finland would take a big leap backwards in the WJR's with the loss of Pulju, Aho, and Laine. But it just sucked to watch him captain one of the worst Finland performances in recent history after utter dominance the year before. It's not fair to pin that on him, it's just that it was disappointing.
> 
> It's fine. I'm not worried about him. But I'd be lying if I said he had the kind of season I was hoping he would have. So in that regard, I could see how his season could be labelled a disappointment.



He was the best player for finland in this years finnish wjc team.

The team overall was a disaster


----------



## lawrence

Chris McKinlay said:


> Juolevi wasn't a disappointment per se. But it was disappointing that there wasn't much progression to his offensive game in his D+1 season. And we knew Finland would take a big leap backwards in the WJR's with the loss of Pulju, Aho, and Laine. But it just sucked to watch him captain one of the worst Finland performances in recent history after utter dominance the year before. It's not fair to pin that on him, it's just that it was disappointing.
> 
> It's fine. I'm not worried about him. But I'd be lying if I said he had the kind of season I was hoping he would have. So in that regard, I could see how his season could be labelled a disappointment.




He retained the same amount if points without marner davorak , and tkachuk. To me that's good enough. Since the London knights were destined to be not even close to last years version. could be better. Disappointment is jake virtannen. All it matters to me, was he's season was alright and he played his best hockey when his team needed him the most.


----------



## CanaFan

lawrence said:


> He retained the same amount if points without marner davorak , and tkachuk. To me that's good enough. Since the London knights were destined to be not even close to last years version. could be better. Disappointment is jake virtannen. All it matters to me, was he's season was alright and he played his best hockey when his team needed him the most.




Eh, London scored 30 fewer goals than last year (289 vs 319). Juolevi wasn't going to get points on all of those 30 goals so lets say he gets points on 20% of them (and I think that's generous). That's an extra 6 points to give him 48 points in 58 games on the highest scoring team in the OHL (tied with Erie).

Is that really 'progress'?


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

Man, people put so much stock in junior production in this thread.


----------



## Pip

Lucbourdon said:


> He was ppg basically with no marner tkachuk




.72 points/game is basically ppg?



Hockeyisl1fe said:


> Man, people put so much stock in junior production in this thread.




(it's because it's actually really important)



Lucbourdon said:


> He was the best player for finland in this years finnish wjc team.
> 
> The team overall was a disaster




He was on a weak team but did not look like a top draft pick. Thankfully I don't put much stock into the World Juniors.


----------



## Starry Knight

Lucbourdon said:


> He was ppg basically with no marner tkachuk






lawrence said:


> how was he a "disappointment *all of the regular season*"?
> 
> please kindly explain.




He looked disengaged all year, was poor defensively frequently, and didn't look as dynamic offensively.

Don't shoot the messenger. I watched most Knights games this year and I saw no improvement from last year.


----------



## Canucks LB

Starry Knight said:


> He looked disengaged all year, was poor defensively frequently, and didn't look as dynamic offensively.
> 
> Don't shoot the messenger. I watched most Knights games this year and I saw no improvement from last year.



Did you miss the playoffs?


----------



## Starry Knight

Lucbourdon said:


> Did you miss the playoffs?




No but, that was in contrast to the much larger sample size of mediocrity of the regular season. And let's not overhype the playoffs. The Knights were getting bulldozed on a regular basis and Parsons should shoulder most of the credit for the success the Knights accrued against Windsor and Erie.


----------



## kmad

Starry Knight said:


> No but, that was in contrast to the much larger sample size of mediocrity of the regular season. And let's not overhype the playoffs. The Knights were getting bulldozed on a regular basis and Parsons should shoulder most of the credit for the success the Knights accrued against Windsor and Erie.




Only on HFBoards do you see people arguing that the regular season is more important than the playoffs.


----------



## Jyrki Lumme

Lucbourdon said:


> Did you miss the playoffs?




My Cole Cassels alarm is sounding.


----------



## Constable

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> Man, people put so much stock in junior production in this thread.




Because Junior production is a great indicator of future success in the NHL and has been proven as such?


----------



## Starry Knight

kmad said:


> Only on HFBoards do you see people arguing that the regular season is more important than the playoffs.




I mean, it's a 60 game sample size vs. 14.

If you say that he wasn't trying because it was only the regular season, then that's a problem too. The Knights' slide in the back half of the year is why they ended up as the 4th seed and having to face Erie in round 2.


----------



## maaran

Starry Knight said:


> I mean, it's a 60 game sample size vs. 14.
> 
> If you say that he wasn't trying because it was only the regular season, then that's a problem too. The Knights' slide in the back half of the year is why they ended up as the 4th seed and having to face Erie in round 2.




Just curious, do you think Juolevi will still be a top pairing defensmen (even if it is like a vlasic-type that doesn't get too many points)? Since you watch their games.


----------



## Starry Knight

maaran said:


> Just curious, do you think Juolevi will still be a top pairing defensmen (even if it is like a vlasic-type that doesn't get too many points)? Since you watch their games.




I think he still has potential, even offensively, to be a good first pairing defenseman. He just needs to be much more consistent in his performance.


----------



## Kingpin794

BackEndHockey said:


> Because Junior production is a great indicator of future success in the NHL and has been proven as such?




Robbie Schremp would be pleased to know this.


----------



## CanaFan

Kingpin794 said:


> Robbie Schremp would be pleased to know this.




You do understand that being an indicator doesn't have to mean 100% accurate all the time, right?


----------



## Caspian

Kingpin794 said:


> Robbie Schremp would be pleased to know this.




grasping at straws


here I'll tighten it up for you
Because Junior production is a great indicator of future success assuming you don't have a major flaw (re: skating and or size).


----------



## SelltheTeamFrancesco

I like how people discredit his wjc production. Then in the sam breath call out his ohl production but have not watched a game or very many to get an accurate opinion on how he has played.


----------



## nucks88

I am just hoping for the best for the kid. I am sure the Canucks will have him on a strict program this summer to build up some strength. I am looking forward to see how he looks at next year's camp. I am sure the same usual suspects will be in here slamming him but whatever...


----------



## Pip

matsin47 said:


> I like how people discredit his wjc production. Then in the sam breath call out his ohl production but have not watched a game or very many to get an accurate opinion on how he has played.




He put up 2 points in 6 games in the last world juniors... 

Maybe playing with the utterly dominant Finnish trio the year before inflated his stats


----------



## Pip

kmad said:


> Only on HFBoards do you see people arguing that the regular season is more important than the playoffs.




In terms of projecting junior players? I see no problem with it


----------



## monster_bertuzzi

Pip said:


> .72 points/game is basically ppg?
> 
> 
> 
> (it's because it's actually really important)
> 
> 
> 
> He was on a weak team but did not look like a top draft pick. Thankfully I don't put much stock into the World Juniors.




Oh really? Say hi to Simon Gamache for me...


----------



## WTG

The more I've watched him play over the year the more I've grown sour on him. Took my homer goggles off and took a real look at him as a prospect, and honestly, I don't really see much top 2 potential in the kid. There is 0 urgency to his game, he plays so passively he can lul me to sleep. Sure that's not his game, but he isn't going out of his way to try to be the difference maker. The only real stand out skill he has is his poise, which comes from his hockeyIQ. But because he's so passive he's not developed that skill much, again no urgency.

All that adds up to a player who will have a solid career as a top 4 defenseman. A Hamhuis type player, who in his prime can be a defensive #2 defenseman but will spend most of his time in the NHL being a 2nd pair guy. So essentially a few years as a top pairing guy, but mostly a career 2nd pairing player. But even Dan Hamhuis was a better junior players then Juolevi so who knows. Maybe that's a overly optimistic prediction. 

It's disappointing that we picked him so high, because we clearly needed more skill, instead we passed up Tkachuck who was BPA for Juolevi. Another dumb move by management.


----------



## CanaFan

monster_bertuzzi said:


> Oh really? Say hi to Simon Gamache for me...




Why? What does a tiny QMJHL forward drafted in the 9th round 17 years ago have to do with Juolevi?

Did you purposely try to find the least relevant player possible to this discussion?


----------



## Oliewud

WTG said:


> The more I've watched him play over the year the more I've grown sour on him. Took my homer goggles off and took a real look at him as a prospect, and honestly, I don't really see much top 2 potential in the kid. There is 0 urgency to his game, he plays so passively he can lul me to sleep. Sure that's not his game, but he isn't going out of his way to try to be the difference maker. The only real stand out skill he has is his poise, which comes from his hockeyIQ. But because he's so passive he's not developed that skill much, again no urgency.
> 
> All that adds up to a player who will have a solid career as a top 4 defenseman. A Hamhuis type player, who in his prime can be a defensive #2 defenseman but will spend most of his time in the NHL being a 2nd pair guy. So essentially a few years as a top pairing guy, but mostly a career 2nd pairing player. But even Dan Hamhuis was a better junior players then Juolevi so who knows. Maybe that's a overly optimistic prediction.
> 
> It's disappointing that we picked him so high, because we clearly needed more skill, instead we passed up Tkachuck who was BPA for Juolevi. Another dumb move by management.




There is absolutely no way to project what he's going to be right now. He has extremely high IQ, a great ability to transition the puck up the ice and very good offensive numbers.

The fact that you came in here to mention tkachuk and talk bad about management is so damn unnecessary. Leave that in the Canucks section under the management thread, not here.


----------



## CanaFan

Oliewud said:


> There is absolutely no way to project what he's going to be right now. He has extremely high IQ, a great ability to transition the puck up the ice and very good offensive numbers.
> 
> The fact that you came in here to mention tkachuk and talk bad about management is so damn unnecessary. Leave that in the Canucks section under the management thread, not here.




That was literally 10% of his post yet the only thing you take issue with. 

No comment about his take on the player despite WTG being the poster who provided more commentary and video on Juolevi on our board than any other poster? Just gonna disregard all that, offer your unsubstantiated opinion ("very good offensive numbers") and then ***** and moan that he mentioned Tkachuk once. Solid.


----------



## nucks88

Oliewud said:


> There is absolutely no way to project what he's going to be right now. He has extremely high IQ, a great ability to transition the puck up the ice and very good offensive numbers.
> 
> The fact that you came in here to mention tkachuk and talk bad about management is so damn unnecessary. Leave that in the Canucks section under the management thread, not here.




Well said.


----------



## Oliewud

CanaFan said:


> That was literally 10% of his post yet the only thing you take issue with.
> 
> No comment about his take on the player despite WTG being the poster who provided more commentary and video on Juolevi on our board than any other poster? Just gonna disregard all that, offer your unsubstantiated opinion ("very good offensive numbers") and then ***** and moan that he mentioned Tkachuk once. Solid.




I have no problems with having an opinion on juolevi whether negative or bad. The problem is when people use this thread to bring up tkachuk/talk bad about management.

How many damn times are you guys going to beat a dead horse? Let's see what juolevi can do at the NHL level first. It's way too early / extremely arrogant to compare these two.


----------



## beachcomber

The one poster who always seems to offer an objective analysis of players is 93Leafs. There needs to be more of him and less of the pages of white noise that you have to sift through to find any worthy discussion of a player.


----------



## Disappointed EP40

Oliewud said:


> *There is absolutely no way to project what he's going to be right now.* He has extremely high IQ, a great ability to transition the puck up the ice and very good offensive numbers.
> 
> The fact that you came in here to mention tkachuk and talk bad about management is so damn unnecessary. Leave that in the Canucks section under the management thread, not here.




This is completely wrong, and he's allowed to say it was a dumb move by mgmt. It was.


----------



## Rey

There isn't any Canuck D in history that really stand out as franchise guy. A lot of No.2s. A one legged Erik Karlsson would be better than any one of them.


----------



## Oliewud

Catbug said:


> This is completely wrong, and he's allowed to say it was a dumb move by mgmt. It was.




I wanted tkachuk more than anybody on draft day.

But anybody that thinks they know how effective juolevi will be at the NHL level is full of ****.


----------



## Disappointed EP40

Oliewud said:


> I have no problems with having an opinion on juolevi whether negative or bad. The problem is when people use this thread to bring up tkachuk/talk bad about management.
> 
> How many damn times are you guys going to beat a dead horse? Let's see what juolevi can do at the NHL level first. It's way too early / *extremely arrogant* to compare these two.




Lolwut

Comparing two picks is kinda what this place is for.


----------



## CanaFan

Oliewud said:


> I have no problems with having an opinion on juolevi whether negative or bad. The problem is when people use this thread to bring up tkachuk/talk bad about management.
> 
> How many damn times are you guys going to beat a dead horse? Let's see what juolevi can do at the NHL level first. It's way too early / extremely arrogant to compare these two.




Sure but there was a lot more substance in that post that just the two sentences you took issue with. Dismissing all that to "chastise" him over something so small was disengenuous and ignores the value in his thoughts about Juolevi.


----------



## CanaFan

Oliewud said:


> I wanted tkachuk more than anybody on draft day.
> 
> But anybody that thinks they know how effective juolevi will be at the NHL level is full of ****.




I've heard lots about how he's definitely gonna be a top 2 Dman, he's gonna be like Dan Hamhuis, etc.

Are those posters all full of **** too?


----------



## Oliewud

Catbug said:


> Lolwut
> 
> Comparing two picks is kinda what this place is for.




I think it's arrogant to compare them *right now* when Juolevi hasn't played a full season in the NHL yet.


----------



## Montecristo

Sounds like Ryan Murray


----------



## Oliewud

CanaFan said:


> Sure but there was a lot more substance in that post that just the two sentences you took issue with. Dismissing all that to "chastise" him over something so small was disengenuous and ignores the value in his thoughts about Juolevi.




I addressed the first part of his post when I talked about Juolevi's game. And then I addressed the 2nd part which I had a problem with.

Why are you acting like some white knight coming to save the day and defend him from criticism? I think he can handle himself there bud


----------



## WTG

Oliewud said:


> There is absolutely no way to project what he's going to be right now. He has extremely high IQ, a great ability to transition the puck up the ice and very good offensive numbers.
> 
> The fact that you came in here to mention tkachuk and talk bad about management is so damn unnecessary. Leave that in the Canucks section under the management thread, not here.




I'm going to have to disagree with what you said, production is a good way to project players. Sure, it's not all about production that transfers over. I personally think that Juolevi's game will transfer over just fine to the NHL game, better then Mete's for example, a defenseman who had a better season then Juolevi. 

My second disagreement is with how he put up great offensive numbers, personally, I don't think he put up great numbers at all. Rather mediocre production. 

I talk about the canucks management because I am dissapointed, I'm a fan too, remember that .


----------



## Oliewud

WTG said:


> I'm going to have to disagree with what you said, production is a good way to project players. Sure, it's not all about production that transfers over. I personally think that Juolevi's game will transfer over just fine to the NHL game, better then Mete's for example, a defenseman who had a better season then Juolevi.
> 
> My second disagreement is with how he put up great offensive numbers, personally, I don't think he put up great numbers at all. Rather mediocre production.
> 
> I talk about the canucks management because I am dissapointed, I'm a fan too, remember that .




Nothing wrong with that. I had no problems with your analysis up until the end which left a sour taste in my mouth because I keep seeing it regurgitated over and over.

A couple years from now we can declare it a bad move by the management if Tkachuk ends up being the more valuable player. But until then, I don't think it adds much to the discussion.


----------



## Willy Styles

Guys dont get disheartened.

The things you guys are talking about defensive poise, IQ, defensive passive game etc. are all skills that young defensemen struggle with. Its a lot easier to be good at offence and run around all over the ice. It is not, however, easy to develop defensive IQ, that has to be gained through experience and sadly most defensemen never develop it. 

You just cant project defensemen, it just does not work. I mean even if Juolevi had success in the NHL that doesn't mean anything for long-term projection of defensemen because their just so unpredictable. 

Of course picking Tkachuck a forward (who is more easy to project would have been the easier move), but you never know what you have with a defensemen until their about 22. So it is a slight on the Nucks management for picking off the board defensemen (Very hard to predict), but Tkachuck vs Juolevi debate is far, far from over.


----------



## CanaFan

Oliewud said:


> I addressed the first part of his post when I talked about Juolevi's game. And then I addressed the 2nd part which I had a problem with.
> 
> Why are you acting like some white knight coming to save the day and defend him from criticism? I think he can handle himself there bud




Mostly cause I dislike rational, well informed opinions being dismissed by people acting like some white knight coming to save the day and defend Benning from criticism.


----------



## BL92

Damn, some are in full on panic mode. Give the kid some time. I get that Tkachuk would have been the shorter route, but at least you don't have Corey Perry 2.0 tarnishing your team, lol.


----------



## VanJack

With Tryamkin gone and the possibility Sbisa goes in the expansion draft, Juolevi is virtually a lock to be a 6-7 d-man in VanCity next season.....who else do they have?...I suspect he'll benefit from the more structured and system-based play in the NHL, even if he struggles on the physical side at times. 

Should be interesting to compare the progress of Juolevi, Sergachev and Chychrun, who all emerged from the first round in the same 2016 draft....early edge goes to Sergachev and Chychrun who both have NHL games under their belt.


----------



## Black Noise

Montecristo said:


> Sounds like Ryan Murray




Not really comparable at all


----------



## M2Beezy

Had him at 6 last year closely behind Tkachuck. Its tough to say Tkachuck obvi had a fantastic rookie season in the best league the NHL. Looks like hes created quiet a gap between the two but has to be mentioned that maybe we have to be patient with Juol before saying it was a bad pick. It looks that way now and we can speculate about it which is the point of the forum i guess but we really cant know for a couple a more seasons. Dont get me wrong I had Tkachuck at 5 and i pray Benning eventually proves us all wrong but even now i dont think it was a HUGE mistake. Juol had some ups and downs this year and leaves on a hi note hopefully for us he can build on next year hopefully not in the NHL so he can develop more


----------



## jebs

Black Noise said:


> Not really comparable at all




How bout Brodin?


----------



## Fulham

We have a young PP quarterback, that scores, is dynamic, and plays with extreme urgency in the offensive zone. He's been stuck in the AHL and even been scratched in Utica to send a message about Defence, 

Olli has a top end Hockey IQ, puts up similar point totals, while being extremely good defensively, and raw physically. He can be a Serviceable NHL'er as soon as next year. We can afford to be patient in developing a great offensive game, as he's sound everywhere else


----------



## FinPanda

Salmonsnake said:


> It is true though people are panicking over Juolevi for nothing.



I disagree.

If he hasn't shown anything last year and this season so far, what they are going to do? They can't pretend it didn't happen.

Came here from the Virtanen thread.


----------



## lawrence

FinPanda said:


> I disagree.
> 
> If he hasn't shown anything last year and this season so far, what they are going to do? They can't pretend it didn't happen.
> 
> Came here from the Virtanen thread.




I'm not panicking. Kid is 19. 

I will panick if the Canucks have a decent season.


----------



## Skinnyjimmy08

hate to bring it up again, but I couldn't believe at the draft and still today that they passed on Tkachuk. When CBJ took PLD, I was actually pumped for Canuck fans that Tkachuk was gonna land right in their laps.....

But its still way too early to make judgement, im just saying I was and am still shocked


----------



## BB88

Vancouver should change their conditioning/strenght coach and fast, Juolevi is 19y and next summer under Rautalas coaching in Turku could do wonders for him/save him.


----------



## howkie

BB88 said:


> Vancouver should change their conditioning/strenght coach and fast, Juolevi is 19y and next summer under Rautalas coaching in Turku could do wonders for him/save him.




Jets can trade their conditioning/strenght coach to Canucks if we can get their goaliecoach, if that is same man who produced Schneider, made Luongo even better and fooled everyone LÃƒÂ¤ck was a good goalie.

I think him or Rangers coach is one of the better and I think those would do wonder for Mason, Helley and Comrie...


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

BB88 said:


> Vancouver should change their conditioning/strenght coach and fast, Juolevi is 19y and next summer under Rautalas coaching in Turku could do wonders for him/save him.



He is not going to participate in Rautala's training program.


----------



## BB88

howkie said:


> Jets can trade their conditioning/strenght coach to Canucks if we can get their goaliecoach, if that is same man who produced Schneider, made Luongo even better and fooled everyone LÃƒÂ¤ck was a good goalie.
> 
> I think him or Rangers coach is one of the better and I think those would do wonder for Mason, Helley and Comrie...




Someone needs to give the Gm's a call.
I really like how Laine/Ristolainen/Rantanen have improved under Rautalas coaching, and they've been focusing on same things as Juolevi right now should be.



Hockeyisl1fe said:


> He is not going to participate in Rautala's training program.




I didn't say he is, rather that he should be.
Could change his career path quite dramatically.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

BB88 said:


> Someone needs to give the Gm's a call.
> I really like how Laine/Ristolainen/Rantanen have improved under Rautalas coaching, and they've been focusing on same things as Juolevi right now should be.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say he is, rather that he should be.
> Could change his career path quite dramatically.



Rautala is a great fitness coach, but it's not like he is the only option in Finland for Juolevi to turn. His methods are very basic after all... and it's not like he will magically turn every player to a surefire NHL star. Otto Koivula for example has looked horrendous this season even though he was under Rautala's supervision all summer. 
But yeah, he can't join the group because he isn't agent Petteri Lehto's client.


----------



## M2Beezy

Tkachuck Horvat Boeser

Sure would look good this year


----------



## BusQuets

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Tkachuck Horvat Boeser
> 
> Sure would look good this year




Why stop there?

Tkachuck-Wennberg-Aho looks even better.


----------



## Aceboogie

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Tkachuck Horvat Boeser
> 
> Sure would look good this year




Pastrnek as well


----------



## Conspiracy Theorist

BusQuets said:


> Why stop there?
> 
> Tkachuck-Wennberg-Aho looks even better.



Tkachuk-Nylander-Aho

It wouldn't solve the problem at the blue line though.


----------



## seafoam

Hopefully he continues to progress because I get flashbacks of Griffin Reinhart when a defenseman on a strong team doesn't take steps forward statistically in their post draft season(s).

Reinhart was close to making the team the year he got drafted (because the Islanders defense was so weak at the time), but ended up going back to Edmonton and never progressed.


----------



## Canuck Luck

howkie said:


> Jets can trade their conditioning/strenght coach to Canucks if we can get their goaliecoach, if that is same man who produced Schneider, made Luongo even better and fooled everyone LÃƒƒÃ‚Â¤ck was a good goalie.
> 
> I think him or Rangers coach is one of the better and I think those would do wonder for Mason, Helley and Comrie...




Deal seeing how Rollie no longer works for us and is now employed by NJ. We'll definitely let you have him, just talk with NJ 

Thankfully Cloutier has done a decent job so far replacing Rollie.


----------



## Starry Knight

seafoam said:


> Hopefully he continues to progress because I get flashbacks of Griffin Reinhart when a defenseman on a strong team doesn't take steps forward statistically in their post draft season(s).
> 
> Reinhart was close to making the team the year he got drafted (because the Islanders defense was so weak at the time), but ended up going back to Edmonton and never progressed.




In contrast to Reinhart, Juolevi is a NHL-calibre skater, which makes it unlikely that he'll flame out in the same way.

Juolevi's problem is that he lacks consistency in his game. Sometimes he flat-out dominates the opposition, and sometimes he barely makes an impact on the game. 

I feel that he still has room for improvement at the OHL level. If he gets sent back he needs to take the step to dominate the opposition on a nightly basis like I know he can.


----------



## Dump Itch

Salmonsnake said:


> Tkachuk-Nylander-Aho
> 
> It wouldn't solve the problem at the blue line though.




Why do you need defense when you have offense?


----------



## Breakers

All the tools to be successful from IQ, to vision, and passing and skating.


But he has the worst compete level I have seen in a prospect in awhile.


----------



## seafoam

Starry Knight said:


> *In contrast to Reinhart, Juolevi is a NHL-calibre skater, which makes it unlikely that he'll flame out in the same way.*
> 
> Juolevi's problem is that he lacks consistency in his game. Sometimes he flat-out dominates the opposition, and sometimes he barely makes an impact on the game.
> 
> I feel that he still has room for improvement at the OHL level. If he gets sent back he needs to take the step to dominate the opposition on a nightly basis like I know he can.




Definitely argree here.


----------



## BusQuets

What i've seen from his pre-season games is that he seems to have all the tools to be great defenseman but he just looks so flegmatic. Like someone who would want to be somewhere else than playing hockey. If i was Vancouver coach i would play him couple games in the NHL so he sees himself what it means to play there and will most likely be a wake-up call. Then send him to Finland and let Salo light a fire under Juolevi's ass.


----------



## Pastor Of Muppets

Starry Knight said:


> In contrast to Reinhart, Juolevi is a NHL-calibre skater, which makes it unlikely that he'll flame out in the same way.
> 
> Juolevi's problem is that he lacks consistency in his game. Sometimes he flat-out dominates the opposition, and sometimes he barely makes an impact on the game.
> 
> I feel that he still has room for improvement at the OHL level. If he gets sent back he needs to take the step to dominate the opposition on a nightly basis like I know he can.




He still looks like a kid to me...I still don't think he's physically there yet..


----------



## voxel

BusQuets said:


> What i've seen from his pre-season games is that he seems to have all the tools to be great defenseman but he just looks so flegmatic. Like someone who would want to be somewhere else than playing hockey. If i was Vancouver coach i would play him couple games in the NHL so he sees himself what it means to play there and will most likely be a wake-up call. Then send him to Finland and let Salo light a fire under Juolevi's ass.




I think fans project attributes into prospects that don't exist in a player. Why couldn't he be a finesse d men like Pitkanen? Every fanbase he played for probably wanted him to be more physical but that was never his style.


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

Relax relax relax

You can see that OJ oozes iq. Let him marinate and physically mature and the Canucks will have a top pairing Dman for a decade.


----------



## 93LEAFS




----------



## LeafChief

Why are people panicking about this guy? He's 19 years old and obviously oozes a lot of offensive potential. The defensive side will come.

Fans over the years have been spoiled with high end picks jumping in and making an impact right away. It takes time.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

Liiga would be a good next step for him. I'm disappointed to hear about his alleged attitude problems, but his tools are still great. When he matures a bit, he will be a good one.


----------



## lawrence

I'm sure as heck no panicking. The last time he actually played in anything meaningful he was the best skater. ( London Knights)

Looked ok during exhibition. Nuck fans still complaining over passing up on Tkachuk. 

Canucks fans = Writing off 19 year old prospects since the beginning of time. Of course Canuck haters will feed off this negative and use it to slam their high picks as much as they can. Any negative, spawns multiple responses. Any positives seem to spawn a different type of reaction of Canuck haters.


----------



## Tv9924

lawrence said:


> I'm sure as heck no panicking. The last time he actually played in anything meaningful he was the best skater. ( London Knights)
> 
> Looked ok during exhibition. Nuck fans still complaining over passing up on Tkachuk.
> 
> Canucks fans = Writing off 19 year old prospects since the beginning of time. Of course Canuck haters will feed off this negative and use it to slam their high picks as much as they can. Any negative, spawns multiple responses. Any positives seem to spawn a different type of reaction of Canuck haters.




Yea, because everyone was writing off Boeser and Horvat when they were 19. Virtanen and Juolevi get slammed because they disappointed in their post draft years, while the players that most of the fans wanted impressed in the NHL.


----------



## CanaFan

lawrence said:


> I'm sure as heck no panicking. The last time he actually played in anything meaningful he was the best skater. ( London Knights)
> 
> Looked ok during exhibition. Nuck fans still complaining over passing up on Tkachuk.
> 
> Canucks fans = Writing off 19 year old prospects since the beginning of time. Of course Canuck haters will feed off this negative and use it to slam their high picks as much as they can. Any negative, spawns multiple responses. Any positives seem to spawn a different type of reaction of Canuck haters.




https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Persecution_complex


----------



## mcpw

Official: http://hc.tps.fi/uutiset/ajankohtaista/turun-palloseura-saa-riveihinsa-odotetun-juniorilupauksen/


----------



## 93LEAFS

Has any 1st rounder gone from CHL to Europe to NHL and been successful? I know everyone thinks playing against men is ideal, but so far the only three I can think of are Goldobin, Yakupov and now Juolevi. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


----------



## Kaako Kappo

93LEAFS said:


> Has any 1st rounder gone from CHL to Europe to NHL and been successful? I know everyone thinks playing against men is ideal, but so far the only three I can think of are Goldobin, Yakupov and now Juolevi. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.



Yeah, i think Juolevi is done for. Rip career.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Rambokala said:


> Yeah, i think Juolevi is done for. Rip career.



Yes, because that's exactly what I said........... Stop being an over-reactionary to comments you disagree with. All I pointed out was that it will be interesting to see how it plays out. People constantly pump this, better off playing against men narrative, and it simply hasn't held true in the small sample size we have.


----------



## Kaako Kappo

93LEAFS said:


> Yes, because that's exactly what I said........... Stop being an over-reactionary to comments you disagree with. All I pointed out was that it will be interesting to see how it plays out. People constantly pump this, better off playing against men narrative, and it simply hasn't held true in the small sample size we have.



Because it's such a pointless thought in the first place. Everyone is their own person and has their own individual path, no matter how the players who've taken a similar route in the past have fared. I don't think Juolevi has much to learn with the Knights, and maybe someone here can light a fire under his lazy ass.


----------



## 93LEAFS

Rambokala said:


> Because it's such a pointless thought in the first place. Everyone is their own person and has their own individual path, no matter how the players who've taken a similar route in the past have fared. I don't think Juolevi has much to learn with the Knights, and maybe someone here can light a fire under his lazy ass.



Excepts trends exist, and it would be stupid to ignore them. The whole, everyone is their own individual allows people to throw out any historical argument they don't like.


----------



## Conspiracy Theorist

On the other hand has CHL ever produced good Finnish players?


----------



## WTG

Salmonsnake said:


> On the other hand has CHL ever produced good Finnish players?



Olli Maattta


----------



## Wallet Inspector

Still think Juolevi is a gonna be a great player. Finland is a good fit for him.


----------



## ottawa

That's why you don't go for the safe pick, calling it now. This guy won't be anything more than an average #4. you heard it here first.


----------



## Szechwan

ottawa said:


> That's why you don't go for the safe pick, *calling it now.* This guy won't be anything more than an average #4. *you heard it here first*.



Bud you're not saying anything that a good chunk of Vancouver's own fanbase hasn't been saying since the day he was drafted. You are not special unfortunately.


----------



## M2Beezy

Rambokala said:


> Yeah, i think Juolevi is done for. Rip career.




Agreed


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

ottawa said:


> That's why you don't go for the safe pick, calling it now. This guy won't be anything more than an average #4. you heard it here first.



Uhmm no, I have heard that numerous times already.


----------



## Yasuo

lawrence said:


> I'm sure as heck no panicking. The last time he actually played in anything meaningful he was the best skater. ( London Knights)
> 
> Looked ok during exhibition. Nuck fans still complaining over passing up on Tkachuk.
> 
> Canucks fans = Writing off 19 year old prospects since the beginning of time. Of course Canuck haters will feed off this negative and use it to slam their high picks as much as they can. Any negative, spawns multiple responses. Any positives seem to spawn a different type of reaction of Canuck haters.



Victor Mete was better than him last year.


----------



## docbenton

Yasuo said:


> Victor Mete was better than him last year.




Not in the playoffs. Juolevi got all the important matchups, top PP and PK minutes, and was a big reason why London beat Windsor and took Erie to 7 games, along with Thomas, Kuokkannen, and of course Parsons. Mete was just a role player when the games got tough and wasn't able to handle the tough matchups nor generate offense. He's a brilliant skater and that helps him in all areas of the game and also makes him look better than he really is.


----------



## Iceman

Was there any rumours of any other team looking at him or do you guys think he would drop to mid round if the Canucks didn't pick him?


----------



## Crede777

93LEAFS said:


> Yes, because that's exactly what I said........... Stop being an over-reactionary to comments you disagree with. All I pointed out was that it will be interesting to see how it plays out. People constantly pump this, better off playing against men narrative, and it simply hasn't held true in the small sample size we have.



I think there's a lot at play when considering which league is the best match for a developing player.

I also think it's not very controversial to state that the AHL would be the ideal spot for a player like him. NA ice, franchise controls coaching and development, playing against adults, less speed than the NHL.

That said, I agree about being hesitant about the career path of CHL - Europe - NHL.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

Crede777 said:


> I think there's a lot at play when considering which league is the best match for a developing player.
> 
> I also think it's not very controversial to state that the AHL would be the ideal spot for a player like him. NA ice, franchise controls coaching and development, playing against adults, less speed than the NHL.
> 
> That said, I agree about being hesitant about the career path of CHL - Europe - NHL.



Meh, most Finnish dmen take the all-Europe route. He's still so young that going to play in Liiga isn't really that alarming.


----------



## Cquant

Anyone know the situation in TPS? Any chance Juolevi can get top line minutes? Is he closer to getting an offensive role or will he be required to be more of the defensive type? I know he is going to work on his shot with Salo, but if paired with more of an offensive partner, it might take the opportunity or role away from him.

That said. I wonder how much weight played a role in him showing up the way he did in camp this year. He definitely has the determination to turn stuff around this year though.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

Brobidus said:


> Anyone know the situation in TPS? Any chance Juolevi can get top line minutes? Is he closer to getting an offensive role or will he be required to be more of the defensive type? I know he is going to work on his shot with Salo, but if paired with more of an offensive partner, it might take the opportunity or role away from him.
> 
> That said. I wonder how much weight played a role in him showing up the way he did in camp this year. He definitely has the determination to turn stuff around this year though.



There's a chance he will get top line minutes and get paired with a former NHLer Henrik Tallinder. That, or on a 2nd pair with Heikkinen. I don't know know what his exact role will be, but I believe it's to be more offensive than defensive. I would trust our coaching staff on this.


----------



## 1OApick

93LEAFS said:


> Has any 1st rounder gone from CHL to Europe to NHL and been successful? I know everyone thinks playing against men is ideal, but so far the only three I can think of are Goldobin, Yakupov and now Juolevi. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.



Yakupov was only because there was a lockout.


----------



## hototogisu

93LEAFS said:


> Has any 1st rounder gone from CHL to Europe to NHL and been successful? I know everyone thinks playing against men is ideal, but so far the only three I can think of are Goldobin, Yakupov and now Juolevi. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.




I don't see why going to the CHL and then going to play against men would be any different from something like what Matthews did, or what Russians or Europeans regularly do when they stay overseas.



Iceman said:


> Was there any rumours of any other team looking at him or do you guys think he would drop to mid round if the Canucks didn't pick him?




To suggest so would be pure revisionist history. Some had Sergachev ahead of him but they were both seen as consensus top 5-10 picks.


----------



## ijuka

93LEAFS said:


> Excepts trends exist, and it would be stupid to ignore them. The whole, everyone is their own individual allows people to throw out any historical argument they don't like.





hototogisu said:


> I don't see why going to the CHL and then going to play against men would be any different from something like what Matthews did, or what Russians or Europeans regularly do when they stay overseas.



Or even what Tolvanen is doing(Though his success is unknown at this point). 

I really don't think that it's a good idea to look at "trends" for such small sample sizes. The players are all individuals and chances are, they'd have failed wherever they went. If anything, logic would dictate that playing in Europe against men for a season should be more useful for development than doing so against juniors in CHL.


----------



## 93LEAFS

ijuka said:


> Or even what Tolvanen is doing(Though his success is unknown at this point).
> 
> I really don't think that it's a good idea to look at "trends" for such small sample sizes. The players are all individuals and chances are, they'd have failed wherever they went. If anything, logic would dictate that playing in Europe against men for a season should be more useful for development than doing so against juniors in CHL.



I never said the trend indicated a significantly higher chance of causing him to bust, just that it would be interesting because of two things. First, it hasn't worked out previously in a relatively small sample size. Two, that Juolevi adds to this sample size. This is a commonly debated thing here, with limited supporting evidence, Juolevi adds to the current pool.


----------



## 93LEAFS

hototogisu said:


> I don't see why going to the CHL and then going to play against men would be any different from something like what Matthews did, or what Russians or Europeans regularly do when they stay overseas.



Well, what Matthews did is really a one-off going from the USNTDP to Switzerland, and is also an extremely rare talent. Matthews also didn't go to Europe because he wasn't NHL ready, he could have played in the NHL that year if it wasn't for age restrictions.

I'd say its fairly different than staying in Europe, it's a more disjointed path.

Either way, I'm curious to see how it plays out. I thought Juolevi was a solid and a top 10 guy at his draft, and was surprised by his regression or at the very least lack of development last year. Maybe Finland will fix this, but if he plays like he did in pre-season and at points with the Knights last year he will be his teams 6th or 7th defender.


----------



## Siludin

ijuka said:


> Or even what Tolvanen is doing(Though his success is unknown at this point).
> 
> I really don't think that it's a good idea to look at "trends" for such small sample sizes. The players are all individuals and chances are, they'd have failed wherever they went. If anything, logic would dictate that playing in Europe against men for a season should be more useful for development than doing so against juniors in CHL.



Yeah, there aren't many Finnish defensemen (or any position for that matter) who have been drafted top-5, let alone enough to try to extrapolate anything from their career path. If there were more than a 3-4 I would be really surprised. 

Rasmus Ristolainen was drafted 8th out of Finland and was AHL-eligible as soon as he came over
Aki Berg went NHL -> IHL -> Finland -> NHL -> Finland
Joni Pitkanen didn't come over to North America until he was 20, and then there was a lockout after his first season.
Mikku Koivu was 6th overall, and not a defensemen, and he came over to North America when he was 22.

Hard to predict anything. If Juolevi goes to Finland and puts up 25-30 points in 45-50 games, that's very good and it should be seen as progress.


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

Thrilled that he will be play vs Men this year and will be the work horse on his team. He will also be WJC eligible.

Im expecting a great year of devlopment for Juolevi. He thinks the game at an elite level. He just needs the physical tools now to execute.

I see him becoming a top pairing Jay Bouwmeester type minus the skating but more offence and running the powerplay.


----------



## thepuckmonster

Canucks also have Salo over in Turku who was working closely with Juolevi during prospects camp. Probably had a significant amount to do with the choice to loan him to Finland over London.


----------



## Szechwan

This thread nearly burns down HF when he's doing poorly, yet Olli had himself a nice 3 point game yesterday and its crickets.


5gp1g2a3pts4pim+2
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]

Hopefully a sign of things to come, he seems to be settling in a bit and playing with more confidence and a quicker first step.


----------



## M2Beezy

Szechwan said:


> This thread nearly burns down HF when he's doing poorly, yet Olli had himself a nice 3 point game yesterday and its crickets.
> 
> 
> 5gp1g2a3pts4pim+2
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]
> Hopefully a sign of things to come, he seems to be settling in a bit and playing with more confidence and a quicker first step.




Did you really expect non Canuck fans to be following our prospects that have played poorly and restart this thread when they finally got something going??? Really?

Anyways good for him please make this a normal thing to catchup Juol


----------



## Szechwan

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Did you really expect non Canuck fans to be following our prospects that have played poorly and restart this thread when they finally got something going??? Really?
> 
> Anyways good for him please make this a normal thing to catchup Juol



You've misunderstood the premise. The point was that this thread is about 1000x more active from all parties when he's doing poorly. 

Anyways, sorry to derail with HF drama. Keep it up Juo.


----------



## Hokinaittii

I haven't really seen the games but I've heard his start was sluggish but since that he has been improving. At least in his last game he was really good and the points kind of backed that up.


----------



## rune74

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Did you really expect non Canuck fans to be following our prospects that have played poorly and restart this thread when they finally got something going??? Really?
> 
> Anyways good for him please make this a normal thing to catchup Juol




Oh come on, leafs fans are always here to remind us how poorly our prospects are and crickets when they do well


----------



## Siludin

I still really like Juolevi. Everyone is sad cause of Sergachev's start, but if you moved Sergachev to the Canucks would you expect the same production?


----------



## ProspectsFanatic

Siludin said:


> I still really like Juolevi. Everyone is sad cause of Sergachev's start, but if you moved Sergachev to the Canucks would you expect the same production?




No, but Sergachev is still the better player.


----------



## Pyromaniac

Szechwan said:


> This thread nearly burns down HF when he's doing poorly, yet Olli had himself a nice 3 point game yesterday and its crickets.
> 
> 
> 5gp1g2a3pts4pim+2
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]
> Hopefully a sign of things to come, he seems to be settling in a bit and playing with more confidence and a quicker first step.






rune74 said:


> Oh come on, leafs fans are always here to remind us how poorly our prospects are and crickets when they do well



Is the reverse not true as well? I mean before his last game, Juolevi had a stat line of 4gp 0g 0a 0pts 0+/-. No one made a post in this thread (not even Leafs fans ) when he was struggling a bit (taking the word of some Finns) to adjust to a new league. Now @Szechwan chooses to make a post right after he has a 3 point night. 

Not that I have a problem with it, this is the nature of this forum. Posters have a tendency to bump a thread or post in it when their prospect is doing well or when a rival team's prospect is performing poorly. I don't see the point in singling out Leafs fans for behaviour that just about every fanbase exhibits. Yesterday we had a Canucks fan in the Korshkov thread telling us what a bust and a reach he was and how well Debrincat was doing.


----------



## Cquant

Juolevi had a bad start during the preseason. He has been playing good for TPS. He is fine, still on track for the NHL. I don't know where all this paranoia is coming from.


----------



## Tryamkin

Brobidus said:


> Juolevi had a bad start during the preseason. He has been playing good for TPS. He is fine, still on track for the NHL. I don't know where all this paranoia is coming from.



Don’t play silly, the paranoia is obviously from the toss up prospects that we passed on to pick Olli that are lighting it up. (Tkachuk, Sergachev, etc). His corsi tho


----------



## firstemperor

rune74 said:


> Oh come on, leafs fans are always here to remind us how poorly our prospects are and crickets when they do well




We have trolls in our fanbase and it definitely goes both ways. I will say that Juolevi didn't look good last year relative to his peers that got picked around the same pick. When I suggested Sergachev was on another tier as a prospect (which I have been stating going back to their draft years), Canuck fans would get antagonized about it....at the same time, you don't want to dissuade all optimism for a club.

Personally, the only Canuck I've been very positive about in the last few years is Gaudette and Pettersson. Haven't been high on many but that has less to do with the Canucks then who they have, relative to my own evaluations- and the expectations of others.


----------



## Cquant

Tryamkin said:


> Don’t play silly, the paranoia is obviously from the toss up prospects that we passed on to pick Olli that are lighting it up. (Tkachuk, Sergachev, etc). His corsi tho






firstemperor said:


> We have trolls in our fanbase and it definitely goes both ways. I will say that Juolevi didn't look good last year relative to his peers that got picked around the same pick. When I suggested Sergachev was on another tier as a prospect (which I have been stating going back to their draft years), Canuck fans would get antagonized about it....at the same time, you don't want to dissuade all optimism for a club.
> 
> Personally, the only Canuck I've been very positive about in the last few years is Gaudette and Pettersson. Haven't been high on many but that has less to do with the Canucks then who they have, relative to my own evaluations- and the expectations of others.




I don't quite agree with you guys. 
During the OHL playoffs last season all I remember is how Olli was on another level. He was clearly the best defender on the Knights and completely outplayed Sergachev in every single match up with the Spitfires. He was a little weak during the regular season, but apparently the coach was leveling out the pairings with Mete on one and Juolevi on the other and Juolevi was saddled with a rookie. To the best of my knowledge they played roughly equal minutes, with Mete taking more offensive duties and Olli more of the defensive responsibilities. 

Keller is great but he is still very small and is going to need sheltering for at least the next while. I don't like his game in his own zone. He seems very volatile somehow whenever I watch him. But he is electrifying. Knowing Willie and Green, he wouldn't be playing much if we had taken him in Olli's place. 
Sergachev is riding on the backs of one of the best offensive powers in the NHL this year. He hasn't looked good either, despite putting up the massive points. I gotta say I'm jealous of him a bit nevertheless though. Would be sweet to have both Sergachev and Juolevi. 
Tkachuk I have no qualms with. But I've accepted that we weren't going to pick him and that's totally fine with me. The Flames took him and we know have a face to hate whenever we play Calgary 

What I'm trying to say is that the prospects that were taken after Juolevi still have their own flaws even if they're having success earlier than he is.

His camp after being drafted was excellent and he showed the hockey IQ, just needed strength. This years was disappointing because we all hoped he would have a much better showing but he was getting beat in areas he was meant to be good at. But he is not even close to busting yet. For all we know he might come in and go straight to our first pairing next season. Maybe I'm just hopelessly optimistic with him thought 

And good to hear there are leafs fans out there that follow some of our prospects. I think we're all pretty excited about Gaudette and Pettersson.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Sergachev has not looked good, that is right. He has looked great, especially for a 19 yo Dman.


----------



## firstemperor

Brobidus said:


> I don't quite agree with you guys.
> During the OHL playoffs last season all I remember is how Olli was on another level. He was clearly the best defender on the Knights and completely outplayed Sergachev in every single match up with the Spitfires. He was a little weak during the regular season, but apparently the coach was leveling out the pairings with Mete on one and Juolevi on the other and Juolevi was saddled with a rookie. To the best of my knowledge they played roughly equal minutes, with Mete taking more offensive duties and Olli more of the defensive responsibilities.
> 
> Keller is great but he is still very small and is going to need sheltering for at least the next while. I don't like his game in his own zone. He seems very volatile somehow whenever I watch him. But he is electrifying. Knowing Willie and Green, he wouldn't be playing much if we had taken him in Olli's place.
> Sergachev is riding on the backs of one of the best offensive powers in the NHL this year. He hasn't looked good either, despite putting up the massive points. I gotta say I'm jealous of him a bit nevertheless though. Would be sweet to have both Sergachev and Juolevi.
> Tkachuk I have no qualms with. But I've accepted that we weren't going to pick him and that's totally fine with me. The Flames took him and we know have a face to hate whenever we play Calgary
> 
> What I'm trying to say is that the prospects that were taken after Juolevi still have their own flaws even if they're having success earlier than he is.
> 
> His camp after being drafted was excellent and he showed the hockey IQ, just needed strength. This years was disappointing because we all hoped he would have a much better showing but he was getting beat in areas he was meant to be good at. But he is not even close to busting yet. For all we know he might come in and go straight to our first pairing next season. Maybe I'm just hopelessly optimistic with him thought
> 
> And good to hear there are leafs fans out there that follow some of our prospects. I think we're all pretty excited about Gaudette and Pettersson.




I actually had Sergachev ranked ~#4-#5 above Tkachuk, Keller at the time. Only time will tell if that is correct. In fact, I wanted the Leafs to trade JVR for the Habs #9, at the time, to take him. I didn't like Juolevi much but had him in the same tier as Serg along with Chyrch. Tkachuk is obviously far out in front right now. I'd also wager McAvoy is ahead as well. I was a big Sergachev fan, had a lot of time to follow the OHL that year because the Leafs stunk. I follow prospects regardless as I'm a hockey fan, less so this year- watching more NHL hockey as of late, kinda changes where the Leafs go.

Juolevi's saving grace to last year was his playoffs..where he was pretty good. Wasn't great, Robert Thomas and Mete carried that team a lot more than Juolevi IMO. If we're talking about the regular season, he looked pretty underwhelming to me when I caught the Knights, Mete carried that blue-line a lot more. As for Sergachev, the difference is in his D+1 year he actually took way tougher matchups and grew defensively, so it wasn't a case of just stagnating raw point production with him....it was more of developing his overall game where he took steps forward.

Juolevi wasn't really a "safe" pick either at the time, which is somewhat of a unfounded narrative- he was just overrated on very stacked teams IMO (WJC with the best Fin team ever, possibly one of the most stacked CHL teams ever in the Knights). His style is very low-event, nothing very dynamic about his game. His north-south skating was good but his overall pivoting was overhyped going back to his draft year, though he does have a projectable frame. Also, he wasn't a reach or anything. Reports were the Sabres were very high on him as well- and clearly the media sold him- as the fans were pretty disappointed in the building once his name was called.


----------



## Conspiracy Theorist

If he becomes a top 4 D like I think he can, I'd say the pick was worth it.


----------



## Iceman

Salmonsnake said:


> If he becomes a top 4 D like I think he can, I'd say the pick was worth it.




Sure, why not, just a shame there seem to have been better dmen right behind him.

GMs believed there was no #1 dmen in the draft which may or may not turn out to be true but there wasn't one with that pedigree at age 17-18.

People need to chill with their expectations from 1st round picks. Not sure why people are disappointed that they don't turn out to be #1's at their position even if they truly were never capable of that. A lot of 1st rounders do not end up having an NHL career so getting a careee middle six player or a stable 2nd pairing dman shouldn't be seen as a failure but actually a reasonable success.


----------



## Ippenator

Salmonsnake said:


> If he becomes a top 4 D like I think he can, I'd say the pick was worth it.



I wouldn't yet count out even possibilities to be a top 2D at some point. Of course I'm not claiming that it will happen, but I think it is still too early to write out the possibility of even that happening. It wouldn't be the first time that a very promising defenceman first regresses even a bit, but then starts suddenly taking huge steps in getting a top defenceman status in the NHL. Chris Pronger at least comes to my mind with this kind of development. And I don't mean that Juolevi will ever be in the same class as Pronger. Just that quick and even surprising changes in development can happen even after slight regression, when talking about this young prospects.


----------



## lifelonghockeyfan

I've never been "NHL impressive" with his play. Unless you knew he Juolevi was a first rounder, he seem to be just another good junior. Sure he can be an top 4 NHLer, but IMO, that is not guaranteed. I think he needs some AHL time to play against men as a real wake up call.


----------



## Son of Petter

I'm sure as soon as he is eligible he will be in the A. He's currently playing against men in Finland.


----------



## Esko6

Interesting game today, he got crushed by a big hit, scored an own goal and scored the OT winner


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Scored another goal today. Seems like he's finally starting to figure out the offense.


----------



## Szechwan

Esko6 said:


> Interesting game today, he got crushed by a big hit, scored an own goal and scored the OT winner



The Juolevi-hattrick?


----------



## Hokinaittii

His OT winner from tonight.


----------



## infinitemile

Anything less than Juolevi developing into Sergachev makes this a disappointing pick altogether. We don't need defensive defenseman. We need scoring. We need offense. We desparately need a guy like Sergachev not to mention Juolevi has been underwhelming.


----------



## Maukkis

infinitemile said:


> Anything less than Juolevi developing into Sergachev makes this a disappointing pick altogether. We don't need defensive defenseman. We need scoring. We need offense. We desparately need a guy like Sergachev not to mention Juolevi has been underwhelming.



Don't you need everything at this point? There will be room for solid defensive D-men too.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

infinitemile said:


> Anything less than Juolevi developing into Sergachev makes this a disappointing pick altogether. We don't need defensive defenseman. We need scoring. We need offense. We desparately need a guy like Sergachev not to mention Juolevi has been underwhelming.



Eh, it's a bit pointless to judge players in hindsight like that. If you want to see whether you got good value for your pick, compare him to the whole pool of players picked around his draft position from the last few years or something. Besides, it's quite early to judge where Juolevi or even Sergachev end up as players.


----------



## ijuka

Nice to see him having some offensive success, though that was a muffin of a shot that would never get past an NHL goaltender. In any case, perhaps this will give him a boost of confidence for the future.


----------



## Dump Itch

infinitemile said:


> Anything less than Juolevi developing into Sergachev makes this a disappointing pick altogether. We don't need defensive defenseman. We need scoring. We need offense. We desparately need a guy like Sergachev not to mention Juolevi has been underwhelming.




False. Anything short of Karlsson is a dissappointment. You guys need everything and Karlsson is everything.


----------



## ItalianCanuck1

Dump Itch said:


> False. Anything short of Karlsson is a dissappointment. You guys need everything and Karlsson is everything.




Guys, as much as the point of @infinitemile is extreme, he's not wrong.

Juolevi was taken because we had not a single prospect projected to be the future of our D. 
He was taken with the 5th overall and he was chosen over prospect like Tkachuk and Keller because the front office considered him a huge young two way dman able to be effective also as a PP qb.

So, I think is licit to set a high bar on him.
I hope he will be a future key piece of the Canucks and I hope to see an effective player on both side of the ice as a 5th overall should do.

And I'm extremely happy with his last two games.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

It really seems pointless to stat watch and talk about Juolevi's ppg. That's not really his game and will never be. He's a defense first guy that will put up a decent amount of points and wow with the occasional filthy pass or snipe but he plays such a safe risk free game that he'll never be a big point contributor.

I'd rather hear about how his play has been on the defensive side, is he engaged? Has he been getting beaten wide? Is he winning puck battles? These are the things Juolevi needs to improve and show he can do at a professional level against men.


----------



## skyo

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> It really seems pointless to stat watch and talk about Juolevi's ppg. That's not really his game and will never be. He's a defense first guy that will put up a decent amount of points and wow with the occasional filthy pass or snipe but he plays such a safe risk free game that he'll never be a big point contributor.
> 
> I'd rather hear about how his play has been on the defensive side, is he engaged? Has he been getting beaten wide? Is he winning puck battles? These are the things Juolevi needs to improve and show he can do at a professional level against men.




Truth, I can see Juolevi having a Mattias Ekholm, Hampus Lindholm like career, not dominate offensively but will play a solid all-round game - that will play top pairing minutes.


----------



## BB88

Juolevi is 19y, way too early to put very low ceiling projections on him.

He has lots of good things going for him, a strong ceiling if he can fix few of his issues. The biggest thing with him this year is to see how he developes during the season and looks on the final game of the season. The 1st few games while trying to adapt to new league mean very little in the end.


----------



## ItalianCanuck1

He does it again..


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Another day, another goal for Juolevi


----------



## Conspiracy Theorist

Bust talks too soon?


----------



## M2Beezy

Salmonsnake said:


> Bust talks too soon?




Hopefully


----------



## Hansen

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> It really seems pointless to stat watch and talk about Juolevi's ppg. That's not really his game and will never be. He's a defense first guy that will put up a decent amount of points and wow with the occasional filthy pass or snipe but he plays such a safe risk free game that he'll never be a big point contributor.
> 
> I'd rather hear about how his play has been on the defensive side, is he engaged? Has he been getting beaten wide? Is he winning puck battles? These are the things Juolevi needs to improve and show he can do at a professional level against men.




He really isn't. This rhetoric of Juolevi being a shutdown defenseman has been very prevalent but it simply is not the case. He is far more offensive than defensive, and he struggles defensively. His offensive game was a resounding "meh" last season. I am glad that he is increasing his productivity in Finland because that will be his bread and butter.


----------



## lawrence

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Hopefully




So liljegren turns things around, you and praise him. (Which is fine) juolevi turns things around with 4 points in 4 games nothing from you. No comment,nothing positive. Fake Canucks fans at their finest.


----------



## NuxFan09

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> It really seems pointless to stat watch and talk about Juolevi's ppg. That's not really his game and will never be. He's a defense first guy that will put up a decent amount of points and wow with the occasional filthy pass or snipe but he plays such a safe risk free game that he'll never be a big point contributor.
> 
> I'd rather hear about how his play has been on the defensive side, is he engaged? Has he been getting beaten wide? Is he winning puck battles? These are the things Juolevi needs to improve and show he can do at a professional level against men.




This. I honestly don't care about his offense at all. I don't need him to be a Sergachev. I care about how he's playing defensively. The Canucks will need him to be a rock on the blueline. That's why they drafted him.


----------



## M2Beezy

lawrence said:


> So liljegren turns things around, you and praise him. (Which is fine) juolevi turns things around with 4 points in 4 games nothing from you. No comment,nothing positive. Fake Canucks fans at their finest.




Beat it Lawrence not sure what your problem is with me I hated the pick all last year and he started off bad again this year. Now hes piling up the points GREAT. Still would rather have Tkachuck Keller Mcavoy. Hopefully that changes but atm not sure youll find anyone with any commen sense who would take him over those three guys.

Go read my post in the Canucks section on Juolevi from like a hour and a half ago bub 

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...land-tps-turku.2387795/page-32#post-137252189


----------



## infinitemile

I've read stuff like this online but does anyone else not like how he skates/shoots? There's something about him that just looks like he doesn't give a shit. He doesn't really follow through on shots etc.


----------



## Icebreakers

infinitemile said:


> I've read stuff like this online but does anyone else not like how he skates/shoots? There's something about him that just looks like he doesn't give a ****. He doesn't really follow through on shots etc.




Yeah. Its Henrik like. Its just Ollis personality. He plays all the time like he doesnt give a f***. Never seen him show any kind of emotion. Shot, skating, hitting, everything.


----------



## miCHel

Vancouver must regret not having taken Sergachev instead of Juolevi.


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

Victorius said:


> Vancouver must regret not having taken Sergachev instead of Juolevi.



Too early 
Especially now he's playing well in Finland top league as 19 yrs old


----------



## Jack DiBiase

Olli is on fire! 4+4=8 in the past 6 games. The first 4 games were scoreless, making it total of 8 points in 10 games. Amazing pace for a 19-year-old playing his first pro games.


----------



## Hokinaittii

His goal from last night.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

Hokinaittii said:


> His goal from last night.




I assume Liigahokii is your 2nd channel, thanks for uploading the highlights. Much easier to view than from Ruutu.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

No longer a bust?


----------



## Ippenator

Elias Pettersson said:


> No longer a bust?



Most likely not. Still kind of a project though. I’m not totally convinced with his attitude yet. But if he gets that completely fixed, he will be still most likely even a star player. All the talent is definitely there.


----------



## miCHel

BKVCMU said:


> Too early
> Especially now he's playing well in Finland top league as 19 yrs old




... And Sergachev is playing rather well at NHL level....


----------



## ijuka

Yeah, he's been looking good now. Perhaps he merely needed an adjustment period. Hopefully he can keep this sort of a pace up.


----------



## member 105785

Victorius said:


> ... And Sergachev is playing rather well at NHL level....




Not all players progress at the same pace, I remember infinite threads about how Curtis Lazar >>> Bo Horvat and how Lehner and Markstrom >>> Schneider. Even in 2009~HF I recall many believing that Toews was just a worse version of Ryan Kesler.

edit: source on lazar v horvat http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/bo-horvat-vs-curtis-lazar.1540689/page-2


----------



## Elias Pettersson

archer cartridge said:


> Not all players progress at the same pace, I remember infinite threads about how Casey Lazar >>> Bo Horvat and how Lehner and Markstrom >>> Schneider. Even in 2009~HF I recall many believing that Toews was just a worse version of Ryan Kesler.



It's the canucks haters man. Canuck prospects threads are way more full of other team fans when they're struggling like Virtanen or last year Juolevi.
Virtanen and juolevi thread MUCH more quiet now they're starting to do better.
When prospects are doing well, very few other team fans come in.. Like Boeser.

I'm not sure about the expiry dates on table salt, but this salt has lasted since 2011!


----------



## Everblades13

archer cartridge said:


> Not all players progress at the same pace, I remember infinite threads about how Curtis Lazar >>> Bo Horvat and how Lehner and Markstrom >>> Schneider. Even in 2009~HF I recall many believing that Toews was just a worse version of Ryan Kesler.
> 
> edit: source on lazar v horvat http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/bo-horvat-vs-curtis-lazar.1540689/page-2



I agree that it is too early, but the additional argument that maybe Juolevi >= Serg because Olli is playing well in Finland was a bad one.


----------



## M2Beezy

archer cartridge said:


> Not all players progress at the same pace, I remember infinite threads about how Curtis Lazar >>> Bo Horvat and how Lehner and Markstrom >>> Schneider. Even in 2009~HF I recall many believing that Toews was just a worse version of Ryan Kesler.
> 
> edit: source on lazar v horvat http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/bo-horvat-vs-curtis-lazar.1540689/page-2




That is the best link EVER


----------



## member 105785

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> That is the best link EVER




There was also a thread where a guy tried to make a bet that Akim Aliu would be an NHL player within the next 5 years in 2014 I think. Also one where a guy who didn't understand advanced stats tried to say that Raffi Torres must be better than Logan Couture because Torres was playing at a PPG pace and Couture wasn't, so adv stats are dumb for that reason.



Everblades13 said:


> I agree that it is too early, but the additional argument that maybe Juolevi >= Serg because Olli is playing well in Finland was a bad one.




I'd agree with that, I think the post was mainly saying that the draft pick doesn't sting as much because of his play of late, which I think is understandable.


----------



## WetcoastOrca

archer cartridge said:


> Not all players progress at the same pace, I remember infinite threads about how Curtis Lazar >>> Bo Horvat and how Lehner and Markstrom >>> Schneider. Even in 2009~HF I recall many believing that Toews was just a worse version of Ryan Kesler.
> 
> edit: source on lazar v horvat http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/bo-horvat-vs-curtis-lazar.1540689/page-2



To be fair, even most on our own Board thought the Canucks should have taken Nichushkin over Horvat because he was in the NHL racking up points with Dallas. 
Prospect development is not a race. It's entirely possible that both Sergachev and Juolevi end up being good picks. Hopefully they do.


----------



## member 105785

vanwest said:


> To be fair, even most on our own Board thought the Canucks should have taken Nichushkin over Horvat because he was in the NHL racking up points with Dallas.
> Prospect development is not a race. It's entirely possible that both Sergachev and Juolevi end up being good picks. Hopefully they do.




Oh for sure, I completely agree and I recall Gillis being roasted over taking "another 3rd liner with a top 10 pick instead of taking the skilled Russian"


----------



## ponder

Elias Pettersson said:


> It's the canucks haters man. Canuck prospects threads are way more full of other team fans when they're struggling like Virtanen or last year Juolevi.
> Virtanen and juolevi thread MUCH more quiet now they're starting to do better.
> When prospects are doing well, very few other team fans come in.. Like Boeser.
> 
> I'm not sure about the expiry dates on table salt, but this salt has lasted since 2011!



The Nucks are my 2nd favourite team, but come on, Virtanen was an insanely bad pick. Nylander and Ehlers we’re both taken in the 3 picks after him, and both are ridiculously far ahead of Virtanen. With even mediocre drafting the Canucks have a star instead of a marginal NHLer.

As for Juolevi, it’s indeed too early to judge. With that being said, 3 of the next 4 picks were Keller, Tkachuk and Sergachev, who are all looking like stars, while Juolevi is definitely still a question mark. I’m sure most Nucks fans would easily trade Juolevi for any of those 3. It’s early days for the 2016 draft, and possible that Juolevi ends up a strong pick, but I do think it’s more likely that he ends up far below Keller, Tkachuk and Sergachev, and is viewed long term as a big miss.

The Nucks have certainly had some good picks recently, like Horvat and Boeser, but they also deserve criticism for the Virtanen pick, and the Juolevi pick is TBD-but-kinda-sketchy. We’re not talking mid-1st here, we’re talking about very high picks, when tonnes of too notch talent was on the board, that they definitely screwed up in Virtanen’s case, and likely screwed up in Juolevi’s case.

Can you imagine if the Nucks had drafted more for skill than 2-way play in those drafts, and taken Nylander and Sergachev instead of Virtanen and Juolevi? The rebuild would be complete already.


----------



## groov2

Hokinaittii said:


> His goal from last night.





I am always so impressed with those muffins that he manages to get in the net.


----------



## lawrence

Looking like a stud. 7 points in his last 5 games. Started at 17 min per game up to 22.


----------



## WetcoastOrca

lawrence said:


> Looking like a stud. 7 points in his last 5 games. Started at 17 min per game up to 22.



Certainly is encouraging to see as he looked very poor at camp. 
I've always taken a patient approach with prospects and I've maintained with Juolevi that it's still too early to say whether or not he was the 'right' pick. Encouraging start though.


----------



## Canucks LB

The issue is his skating, its so average, he needs to work on it big time


----------



## M2Beezy

ponder said:


> The Nucks are my 2nd favourite team, but come on, Virtanen was an insanely bad pick. Nylander and Ehlers we’re both taken in the 3 picks after him, and both are ridiculously far ahead of Virtanen. With even mediocre drafting the Canucks have a star instead of a marginal NHLer.
> 
> As for Juolevi, it’s indeed too early to judge. With that being said, 3 of the next 4 picks were Keller, Tkachuk and Sergachev, who are all looking like stars, while Juolevi is definitely still a question mark. I’m sure most Nucks fans would easily trade Juolevi for any of those 3. It’s early days for the 2016 draft, and possible that Juolevi ends up a strong pick, but I do think it’s more likely that he ends up far below Keller, Tkachuk and Sergachev, and is viewed long term as a big miss.
> 
> The Nucks have certainly had some good picks recently, like Horvat and Boeser, but they also deserve criticism for the Virtanen pick, and the Juolevi pick is TBD-but-kinda-sketchy. We’re not talking mid-1st here, we’re talking about very high picks, when tonnes of too notch talent was on the board, that they definitely screwed up in Virtanen’s case, and likely screwed up in Juolevi’s case.
> 
> Can you imagine if the Nucks had drafted more for skill than 2-way play in those drafts, and taken Nylander and Sergachev instead of Virtanen and Juolevi? The rebuild would be complete already.




Bingo. Like spot on and something a majority of us agree on 100% except for the Lawrences and Porsche Designs of HFBoards Canucks


----------



## Elias Pettersson

ponder said:


> The Nucks are my 2nd favourite team, but come on, Virtanen was an insanely bad pick. Nylander and Ehlers we’re both taken in the 3 picks after him, and both are ridiculously far ahead of Virtanen. With even mediocre drafting the Canucks have a star instead of a marginal NHLer.
> 
> As for Juolevi, it’s indeed too early to judge. With that being said, 3 of the next 4 picks were Keller, Tkachuk and Sergachev, who are all looking like stars, while Juolevi is definitely still a question mark. I’m sure most Nucks fans would easily trade Juolevi for any of those 3. It’s early days for the 2016 draft, and possible that Juolevi ends up a strong pick, but I do think it’s more likely that he ends up far below Keller, Tkachuk and Sergachev, and is viewed long term as a big miss.
> 
> The Nucks have certainly had some good picks recently, like Horvat and Boeser, but they also deserve criticism for the Virtanen pick, and the Juolevi pick is TBD-but-kinda-sketchy. We’re not talking mid-1st here, we’re talking about very high picks, when tonnes of too notch talent was on the board, that they definitely screwed up in Virtanen’s case, and likely screwed up in Juolevi’s case.
> 
> Can you imagine if the Nucks had drafted more for skill than 2-way play in those drafts, and taken Nylander and Sergachev instead of Virtanen and Juolevi? The rebuild would be complete already.



um... where in my post did I say they were great picks? I even said they were struggling and used that as a point in my example. I think you missed my whole argument. The topic was about Canuck haters.


----------



## RandV

Elias Pettersson said:


> um... where in my post did I say they were great picks? I even said they were struggling and used that as a point in my example. I think you missed my whole argument. The topic was about Canuck haters.




It's not being a 'hater' pointing out bad picks are bad. And these are the main boards so of course you're getting input from other fans. There's always the usual Canadian city rivalries but you're only really hated when you're good and the Canucks have been completely irrelevant under Benning. 

If more people are coming into a thread where a prospect is doing poorly it's probably because a train wreck is more interesting... and the prospect doing well thread is going to be overloaded with homerism.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

RandV said:


> If more people are coming into a thread where a prospect is doing poorly it's probably because a train wreck is more interesting... and the prospect doing well thread is going to be overloaded with homerism.



that's the exact thing i'm pointing out.
When Canucks prospect does well = very few other team fans
When Canucks prospect does poor = much more other team fans
Not that hard of a concept to grasp.


----------



## M2Beezy

Elias Pettersson said:


> that's the exact thing i'm pointing out.
> When Canucks prospect does well = very few other team fans
> When Canucks prospect does poor = much more other team fans
> Not that hard of a concept to grasp.




Means even when we are irelevant (like now and past 3-4 years) other fans still hate us enough to bring it up 

Embrace it!


----------



## Everblades13

archer cartridge said:


> I'd agree with that, I think the post was mainly saying that the draft pick doesn't sting as much because of his play of late, which I think is understandable.



That makes sense, in which case I would agree. Like vanwest said I hope they both end up being good players.


----------



## Everblades13

Elias Pettersson said:


> that's the exact thing i'm pointing out.
> When a prospect does well = very few other team fans
> When a prospect does poor = much more other team fans
> Not that hard of a concept to grasp.



FIFY


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Everblades13 said:


> FIFY



That may be true to some extent, but it's magnified 10x with teams like Vancouver and Toronto.
There were at least 2-3 Horvat vs Lazar polls between 2013-2015 where Lazar handily beat Horvat. Fans of other teams said Horvat would top out as a 3rd line defensive center.


----------



## Everblades13

Elias Pettersson said:


> That may be true to some extent, but it's magnified 10x with teams like Vancouver and Toronto.
> There were at least 2-3 Horvat vs Lazar polls between 2013-2015 where Lazar handily beat Horvat. Fans of other teams said Horvat would top out as a 3rd line defensive center.



I guess you might be right, but it is hard to say. I mean, I feel like I have seen people make the same argument you're making in both the PLD thread and the Pulju thread. Like someone said earlier, people just like talking crap more than they like praising other teams players. It's lame, but it's just how it is.

It is probably more with you guys and especially Toronto, but I don't think it is some anti-Leafs/Canucks thing. With huge fan bases everything is gonna get magnified both good and bad.


----------



## stampedingviking

Elias Pettersson said:


> that's the exact thing i'm pointing out.
> When Canucks prospect does well = very few other team fans
> When Canucks prospect does poor = much more other team fans
> Not that hard of a concept to grasp.



Obviously it is for some


----------



## lawrence

vanwest said:


> Certainly is encouraging to see as he looked very poor at camp.
> I've always taken a patient approach with prospects and I've maintained with Juolevi that it's still too early to say whether or not he was the 'right' pick. Encouraging start though.




You are right. It is also way too early to say if he was the wrong pick. I just love how people are saying the Canucks make the wrong when he wasn’t even the last guy chosen before him. Not to mention there are 2 other guys picked in the top 4 still kinda struggling.


----------



## Smeagoal

Ippenator said:


> Most likely not. Still kind of a project though.* I’m not totally convinced with his attitude yet*. But if he gets that completely fixed, he will be still most likely even a star player. All the talent is definitely there.




I haven't been keeping up with Olli as much this season, did he say/do something that makes you question his attitude??


----------



## Canucks LB

Sadly A Canucks Fan said:


> I haven't been keeping up with Olli as much this season, did he say/do something that makes you question his attitude??



A ton actually, also a lot of reports on how cocky he is, and had a closed door meeting with just himself to discuss his attitude.

Was on reddit and hf boards during camp.


----------



## Ippenator

Lucbourdon said:


> A ton actually, also a lot of reports on how cocky he is, and had a closed door meeting with just himself to discuss his attitude.
> 
> Was on reddit and hf boards during camp.



Yes, exactly these kind of things. His interviews have also often sounded quite arrogant and entitled. 

He was also the main complainer publicly on the Finnish coach in last years fiasco WJC for Finland, while he was the captain of the team. I mean, the coach pretty much sucked, but you can’t be doing that kind of stuff that he did publicly in the middle of the tournament. And the style how he did it was pretty much with childish whining. 

He was a big factor making the team completely a mess and his play on the ice also sucked big time in that tournament. 

It seems though that what happened in the beginning of this season has made him a bit more humble. A couple of interviews I heard, his tone had pretty much changed and also he has been playing pretty darn good hockey with looking quite well engaged and motivated. 

So I do feel a lot better about him at the moment. But still the kind of attitude problems that he has had could still backfire at some point. Hopefully it has been just immaturity and that he has now finally started maturing after eating some humble pie.

I do like his skills a lot, but I think his real problems so far have been mostly attitude related. Could still become an amazing defenceman if the attitude problem will be completely fixed.


----------



## thelittlecoon

Scored another goal today. Now at 9 points (5G 4A) in 11 games.


----------



## lawrence

Apparently him and Miro are the highest under 20 producing defencemens in 38 years. What a fast turn around for olli


----------



## King In The North

lawrence said:


> Apparently him and Miro are the highest under 20 producing defencemens in 38 years. What a fast turn around for olli




In Liiga's history, right?


----------



## CherryToke

lawrence said:


> Apparently him and Miro are the highest under 20 producing defencemens in 38 years. What a fast turn around for olli




Bust


----------



## tuozzi

I've seen every TPS home game since he came over and I gotta say that while his offense is great for this level D is a fairly big issue.

In his own end he seems either disinterested or just clueless. He's also not physically there yet. Still has a lot of work to do in order to not get slaughtered in the big league.


----------



## Breakers

tuozzi said:


> I've seen every TPS home game since he came over and I gotta say that while his offense is great for this level D is a fairly big issue.
> 
> In his own end he seems either *disinterested* or just clueless. He's also not physically there yet. Still has a lot of work to do in order to not get slaughtered in the big league.




I completely agree about being disinterested, but I don't think he is clueless.

The coaching staff (Sami Salo) has reiterated everything you said.


----------



## lifelonghockeyfan

I've seen him many times. If you didn't know he was a first rounder, you would just think he was "another guy" out there. I just don't see the needed attributes to jump the next two levels....AHL and NHL to be NHL good.


----------



## Szechwan

lifelonghockeyfan said:


> I've seen him many times. If you didn't know he was a first rounder, you would just think he was "another guy" out there. I just don't see the needed attributes to jump the next two levels....AHL and NHL to be NHL good.




Yeah that's kind of been the knock on him since he was drafted. His performance thus far in Liiga has been extremely encouraging though, so I guess you can only wait and see how he does in the AHL.


----------



## Volica

Hadn't even realized Olli went back to Finland.
Interesting.


----------



## nowhereman

I'll be honest; it concerns me when people question his defensive play, considering he was drafted as a safe (or, at least, "safer") two-way option over higher-upside guys like Sergachev and Keller. Was he not supposed to be a high IQ, steady Hamhuis-type from the backend? It's a lot easier to stomach passing on higher risk guys when you know you're getting something much more "known" but now we're hearing about attitude/commitment issues and defensive liabilities? 

By no means am I trying to stir the pot or jump on the "shoulda' drafted Tkachuk" bandwagon but this doesn't seem like the narrative we were fed when the Canucks drafted the guy (quiet, composed, two-way anchor who always makes the smart play).


----------



## thelittlecoon

From the games I've watched this year he's been decent in his own zone. Makes quick smart plays when he has the puck and is great at stick positioning and stick checking. Where he really struggles is using his body to defend. He relies way to much on his stick and gets beat by speed and strength to the outside more than I'd like to see. Looks waaaay more comfortable then he did in the preseason though. His passing and skating with the puck are about as clean as you can get.


----------



## M2Beezy

Imagine we had Keller and Boeser out there


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

thelittlecoon said:


> From the games I've watched this year he's been decent in his own zone. Makes quick smart plays when he has the puck and is great at stick positioning and stick checking. Where he really struggles is using his body to defend. He relies way to much on his stick and gets beat by speed and strength to the outside more than I'd like to see. Looks waaaay more comfortable then he did in the preseason though. His passing and skating with the puck are about as clean as you can get.



Agree on this, I have watched most of his games (a season ticket holder). I don't know how someone could claim he is "clueless" in his own zone.


----------



## DieTomi

lifelonghockeyfan said:


> I've seen him many times. If you didn't know he was a first rounder, you would just think he was "another guy" out there. I just don't see the needed attributes to jump the next two levels....AHL and NHL to be NHL good.



That's funny coming from a leafs fan. Let me guess you think Liljegren is more NHL ready?


----------



## lifelonghockeyfan

DieTomi said:


> That's funny coming from a leafs fan. Let me guess you think Liljegren is more NHL ready?




Check my posts, seems like I was one of few Leaf fans that said "Gee guys, he was drafted 17th, no way is he NHL ready." Being of junior age and playing in the AHL is a big enough jump. IMO Liljegren won't be NHL ready next year either.
If the NHL was a no contact, skills contest, Liljegren might be ready, but since the NHL is a contact, collusion game , you better be of man strength too.


----------



## DieTomi

lifelonghockeyfan said:


> Check my posts, seems like I was one of few Leaf fans that said "Gee guys, he was drafted 17th, no way is he NHL ready." Being of junior age and playing in the AHL is a big enough jump. IMO Liljegren won't be NHL ready next year either.
> If the NHL was a no contact, skills contest, Liljegren might be ready, but since the NHL is a contact, collusion game , you better be of man strength too.



What are the "attributes" that you believe are needed to make the NHL Juolevi doesn't possess? He makes smart decisions with and without the puck and is 6'3 200lbs. He's a solid bet to make the NHL, even if he only ends up a #3 d-man.

I drove up to Toronto with my family to see the rookie game against the habs at Ricoh and Liljegren looked so far away from the NHL I didn't think he'd crack the Marlies starting lineup. He's been doing ok so far but still makes questionable decisions with the puck constantly and his adventures into the offensive zone leading to turnovers haven't disappeared since last season. Great skater and a wicked shot but still left wanting more every time I watch.

When I watched Juolevi in London I thought he did everything you'd want in a defenseman, was solid at both ends of the ice, tilted the ice in the knights favour with his breakout passes and clean transition play, and could be used in any and every situation. Only thing I didn't like was his lack of urgency which looks like it's catching up to him now. Still think he's a safer bet to make the NHL than Liljegren from what I've seen of both. The WJC will be a good opportunity to see them head to head if they end up playing each other.


----------



## Offre Hostile

Can't really get any softer than Juolevi is right now, his skating is very average too. Great puck mover though with smarts for both offensive and defensive play. He's going to be an NHLer but needs to get some edge to his game to be a real difference maker.


----------



## Conspiracy Theorist

DieTomi said:


> What are the "attributes" that you believe are needed to make the NHL Juolevi doesn't possess? He makes smart decisions with and without the puck and is 6'3 200lbs. He's a solid bet to make the NHL, even if he only ends up a #3 d-man.
> 
> I drove up to Toronto with my family to see the rookie game against the habs at Ricoh and Liljegren looked so far away from the NHL I didn't think he'd crack the Marlies starting lineup. He's been doing ok so far but still makes questionable decisions with the puck constantly and his adventures into the offensive zone leading to turnovers haven't disappeared since last season. Great skater and a wicked shot but still left wanting more every time I watch.
> 
> When I watched Juolevi in London I thought he did everything you'd want in a defenseman, was solid at both ends of the ice, tilted the ice in the knights favour with his breakout passes and clean transition play, and could be used in any and every situation. Only thing I didn't like was his lack of urgency which looks like it's catching up to him now. Still think he's a safer bet to make the NHL than Liljegren from what I've seen of both. The WJC will be a good opportunity to see them head to head if they end up playing each other.



It will be all about Heiskanen and Välimäki but Juolevi was the best defenseman in 2016 WJC as a 17 year old.


----------



## DieTomi

Salmonsnake said:


> It will be all about Heiskanen and Välimäki but Juolevi was the best defenseman in 2016 WJC as a 17 year old.



That's true, I guess both are more comparable to Timoth being in the same draft. Sweden and Finland look stacked this year. Dahlin, Liljegren, Brannstrom, Andersson, Pettersson / Juolevi, Heiskanen, Valimaki, Tolvanen both look like gold medal winning cores and I'm probably forgetting a few big names.


----------



## Halla

DieTomi said:


> What are the "attributes" that you believe are needed to make the NHL Juolevi doesn't possess? He makes smart decisions with and without the puck and is 6'3 200lbs. *He's a solid bet to make the NHL, even if he only ends up a #3 d-man.*
> 
> I drove up to Toronto with my family to see the rookie game against the habs at Ricoh and Liljegren looked so far away from the NHL I didn't think he'd crack the Marlies starting lineup. He's been doing ok so far but still makes questionable decisions with the puck constantly and his adventures into the offensive zone leading to turnovers haven't disappeared since last season. Great skater and a wicked shot but still left wanting more every time I watch.
> 
> When I watched Juolevi in London I thought he did everything you'd want in a defenseman, was solid at both ends of the ice, tilted the ice in the knights favour with his breakout passes and clean transition play, and could be used in any and every situation. Only thing I didn't like was his lack of urgency which looks like it's catching up to him now. Still think he's a safer bet to make the NHL than Liljegren from what I've seen of both. The WJC will be a good opportunity to see them head to head if they end up playing each other.




so his floor is a #3 dman?

It doesn't work like that


----------



## lifelonghockeyfan

DieTomi: Sounds like you agree with me on Liljgren. The skills I you and I mentioned skills you and mentioned....skating and shooting are top notch. So is his passing....when not under pressure. It's adapting to the pro game and in his case the smaller ice surface too. He has be better, much better in his decision making when under physical pressure to be a pro.
I thought Juolevi was good enough in London. Maybe because he played with a stacked team, that I didn't see the urgency that you suggest. Other players could take over as Juolevi wasn't the sole player difference maker on the ice. I just question if he can "beat" his NHL man one on one consistently in the NHL. Like Liljgren once he mans up in real strength, then we can real know if their decision making has developed too.
The WJC. Years ago when the Europeans weren't in North America in such great numbers, the WJC was quite a showcase of talent, mostly because you hadn't seen so many of the players competing. Also before the internet and mass sports channels.
I think the WJC has lost some of it's edge because we have seen so many of the players already. Yeah, it can be fun to watch and certainly fun for players, but probably not so important for players evaluation as it once was. To me it's becoming more a traditional event on TV than a great sporting event. 
Not too many years ago, the US college Bowl games had great meaning as it determined the final rankings and it pitted different conferences against one another. Now with the playoff system, the games on January 1st don't mean so much, and the unique conferences that have now disappeared due to mergers.


----------



## BB88

I just don't trust Vancouvers offseason programs a whole lot right now. Seems to be affecting their skating.

But for Juolevi(and for me in the case of Juolevi) what's important is how he develops throughout the year and looks at the end of year, and not how he looks today as much.
He had a weak pre season and now it's all about how far can he go this year.


----------



## 93LEAFS

DieTomi said:


> What are the "attributes" that you believe are needed to make the NHL Juolevi doesn't possess? He makes smart decisions with and without the puck and is 6'3 200lbs. He's a solid bet to make the NHL, even if he only ends up a #3 d-man.



No players "floor" is a number 3 d-man. Juolevi's floor is probably what he is now which is a decent SM-Liiga defender. Now, him being that is probably unlikely, but young defenders development is so erratic that its hard to call someones floor a number 3 defender. Just look at guys like Cam Barker, Bogosian, Schenn, Gudbranson, Ryan Murray, Griffin Reinhart, Jared Cowan, and Derrick Pouliot. Very few guys floor is that high. Young defenders have significant risk attached, and almost every player drafted outside of the uber-elite talents (such as Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos, McDavid, Eichel, MacKinnon, Doughty, Hedman, Eichel, Matthews, etc) is a non-NHLer. While unlikely, because like how very few people reach their perceived ceiling, very few underperform to the level of their floor.

I liked Juolevi in his draft year, he was smart and composed and used to be good at avoiding the forecheck. I didn't pay as close attention to the Knights last year, but he didn't progress and in some ways seemed to regress last year, and that was backed up when I talked to people who avidly watched the team (a general vibe was Mete was outplaying him). 

Good for Juolevi bouncing back and doing well in Finland, although, I would avoid reading too much into the whole "he's producing among the best rates for u-20 Finnish defenders in the last 30 years of the league" simply because how many legitimate number 1's have come out of that league in that time frame? The countries best NHL defenders of all time are Timonen and Numminen, who were good defenders but never really Norris candidates, and the only highly hyped guys based out of there were Aki Berg, Pitkanen, and Risto, all of whom were out of that league by 19 (although Pitkanen did play his 19-year-old season there). Good for Canucks fans that he looks back on track, and is on the verge of putting himself again in the discussion of a top 10 player from 2016.


----------



## tuozzi

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> Agree on this, I have watched most of his games (a season ticket holder). I don't know how someone could claim he is "clueless" in his own zone.




Well, I did say clueless OR disinterested. In any case, too often he's just stood their while other guys battle for the puck and an opposing forward sneaks up behind him.

Having said that, he has improved some and actually just finished quite a clean game on the D.


----------



## member 105785

BB88 said:


> I just don't trust Vancouvers offseason programs a whole lot right now. Seems to be affecting their skating.
> 
> But for Juolevi(and for me in the case of Juolevi) what's important is how he develops throughout the year and looks at the end of year, and not how he looks today as much.
> He had a weak pre season and now it's all about how far can he go this year.




Didn't seem to negatively affect Boeser after concerns over his skating


----------



## Breakers

BB88 said:


> I just don't trust Vancouvers offseason programs a whole lot right now. Seems to be affecting their skating.
> 
> But for Juolevi(and for me in the case of Juolevi) what's important is how he develops throughout the year and looks at the end of year, and not how he looks today as much.
> He had a weak pre season and now it's all about how far can he go this year.




Vancouver has the worst off-season training regimen in the league.


----------



## bossram

Breakers said:


> Vancouver has the worst off-season training regimen in the league.




Agreed. Our prospects offseason training program, in an effort to "bulk up", appears to just make them fat and less mobile. We've seen this multiple times.


----------



## Breakers

bossram said:


> Agreed. Our prospects offseason training program, in an effort to "bulk up", appears to just make them fat and less mobile. We've seen this multiple times.




Clearly the guys in the section titled *"Human Performance"* need to be fired.
Coaches & Staff


----------



## BB88

archer cartridge said:


> Didn't seem to negatively affect Boeser after concerns over his skating






Breakers said:


> Vancouver has the worst off-season training regimen in the league.




McCann, Virtanen, Juolevi, there's a bad trend there, and Boeser didn't play in the NHL in his +2 season, this is a +3 for him.

This year McCann has looked better but I'd say his development took a hit while trying to gain too much too fast.
Sounded awfull lot like the same for Juolevi at the end of season.

NHL is more and more about the speed and winning puck races these days.


----------



## Tobi Wan Kenobi

Yeah Bo and Brock had a bad training regiment... lol..it's up to the f***ing players. You guys don't even know what their programs consisted of. Basically all players use their own trainers in the offseason anyways. Maybe Virtanen, Juoelvi and McCann just had stalled developments because development isn't linear.


----------



## BB88

Tobi Wan Kenobi said:


> Yeah Bo and Brock had a bad training regiment... lol..it's up to the ****ing players. You guys don't even know what their programs consisted of. Basically all players use their own trainers in the offseason anyways. Maybe Virtanen, Juoelvi and McCann just had stalled developments because development isn't linear.




You don't think some Gm's have talks with their prospects, especially top prospects on their goals for him for the next season/what they want to see them develop?

I remember reading Benning shutting down Juolevis season to focus on gaining weight/strenght.


----------



## CherryToke

BB88 said:


> You don't think some Gm's have talks with their prospects, especially top prospects on their goals for him for the next season/what they want to see them develop?
> 
> I remember reading Benning shutting down Juolevis season to focus on gaining weight/strenght.




There is definitely a trend of Canucks prospects bulking up with no logic or reasoning other than bulking up. Doesn't seem to be working too great as we've seen several players come in over weight the last few years which hurt their game. I don't think it's a coincidence.

Even Bo looked slow and overweight when he first came up if I recall correctly.


----------



## Drew Doubty

3 assists tonight, 12pts in 14 games.


----------



## GeorgeLeafer12

Juolevi 0+3 +2


----------



## BB88




----------



## Zombotron

...Nice. He's coming alive on the offensive side of things.


----------



## GetFocht

12 points in 14 games in a pro league, I think at the very worst he will be a good top 4 defenceman.


----------



## Cquant

Heiskanen (14GP, 7G, 4A, 11P),
Juolevi (14GP, 5G, 7A, 12P)

Does this mean that Juolevi is still roughly projection like a 5OA pick, i.e. that he is still a legitimate blue chip prospect? Clearly the comparison isn't perfect, seeing as Juolevi is a year older and their possessions stats are completely different. But Juolevi has really turned it around after his disappointing development camp.


----------



## DoingItCoolKiwi

Cquant said:


> Heiskanen (14GP, 7G, 4A, 11P),
> Juolevi (14GP, 5G, 7A, 12P)
> 
> Does this mean that Juolevi is still roughly projection like a 5OA pick, i.e. that he is still a legitimate blue chip prospect? Clearly the comparison isn't perfect, seeing as Juolevi is a year older and their possessions stats are completely different. But Juolevi has really turned it around after his disappointing development camp.



Of course he is still a blue chip prospect. A guy like him doesn't go lose that status after one a bit disappointing season. And these camps should always be taken with a grain of salt because some players focus hard on off ice training which results to slow starts when they return to the rink.

I recall him being around twenties in the this Summer's HFBoards top 50 prospects voting which was completely fair ranking imo.


----------



## BROCK HUGHES

DoingItCoolKiwi said:


> Of course he is still a blue chip prospect. A guy like him doesn't go lose that status after one a bit disappointing season. And these camps should always be taken with a grain of salt because some players focus hard on off ice training which results to slow starts when they return to the rink.
> 
> I recall him being around twenties in the this Summer's HFBoards top 50 prospects voting which was completely fair ranking imo.



Give him this year and next year in Finland.Let him stew a lil bit...he will be great..no rush...


----------



## FinPanda

Not just the points, but everything I hear about him is very encouraging. Sounds like he has taken big steps in a short period of time. Maybe last year in the OHL was a mistake?


----------



## ijuka

Cquant said:


> Heiskanen (14GP, 7G, 4A, 11P),
> Juolevi (14GP, 5G, 7A, 12P)
> 
> Does this mean that Juolevi is still roughly projection like a 5OA pick, i.e. that he is still a legitimate blue chip prospect? Clearly the comparison isn't perfect, seeing as Juolevi is a year older and their possessions stats are completely different. But Juolevi has really turned it around after his disappointing development camp.



12 points in last 10 games for Juolevi.

It does seem like after his initial struggles, he's managed to adapt and now he's doing really well in the league. But while he has scored better than Heiskanen, he plays for a much stronger team and I still think that Heiskanen's been better overall. Even so, producing at a PPG+ pace in Liiga is extremely impressive for a defenseman. I recall this guy called Brian Rafalski having a pretty good NHL career after going PPG in Liiga as a defenseman.

Perhaps he has his share of defensive struggles but defending as a whole is something you usually develop a bit slower and him showing some offensive prowess is very encouraging also.


----------



## HockeyHistorian

Juolevi's problems are mainly just speed and strength. Otherwise he is pretty much good to go.


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

HockeyHistorian said:


> Juolevi's problems are mainly just speed and strength. Otherwise he is pretty much good to go.





Speed and strength is easier to teach and gain than IQ and Instinct which is what OJ is elite at.

I see a Roman Josi type as his absoloute ceiling.


----------



## WHISTLERNATE

DownGoesMcDavid said:


> Speed and strength is easier to teach and gain than IQ and Instinct which is what OJ is elite at.
> 
> I see a Roman Josi type as his absoloute ceiling.




I think Josi is one of the top 5 D in the league. I would take that as Juolevi's ceiling!


----------



## BigTruzz

Looking better and better


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

FinPanda said:


> Not just the points, but everything I hear about him is very encouraging. Sounds like he has taken big steps in a short period of time. Maybe last year in the OHL was a mistake?



In retrospect, spending last season in the OHL might have been a mistake. It seems like he didn't really progress there, perhaps stepping up to pros would have been better for him. Looks good now, though.


----------



## Ippenator

TheFinnishTrap said:


> In retrospect, spending last season in the OHL might have been a mistake. It seems like he didn't really progress there, perhaps stepping up to pros would have been better for him. Looks good now, though.



This is what I believe too. For European player’s development it is in fact clearly better in general to play junior age through in a top European league like KHL, SHL, FEL or NLA. Only if the kid is an absolutely amazing talent with already pretty good maturity for his age, there is any point to really go to North American leagues to play as a junior aged player. Better in general to get your skills and confidence gradually to a very high level in the European leagues, and then finally when you are already a ready made international level top player, it is a good time to go to North America.

Maybe for very special talents like Barkov, Laine, Nylander or Aho there is real point to go already early to North America, but I’m in fact not even sure if it was really the best thing for even their development. Or could it have been that even they would have after all become more skillful and confidently playing players than they are now, if they after all stayed for a couple of more of season to play in Europe. I just really don’t see North American leagues as good for developing top European talents as European top pro leagues are. This is still generally speaking, and might not apply to every European top talent though, as I already mentioned before.


----------



## DFAC

DownGoesMcDavid said:


> Speed and strength is easier to teach and gain than IQ and Instinct which is what OJ is elite at.
> 
> I see a Roman Josi type as his absoloute ceiling.




I think he is a poor man's Hampus Lindholm....which is not bad at all.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

Ippenator said:


> This is what I believe too. For European player’s development it is in fact clearly better in general to play junior age through in a top European league like KHL, SHL, FEL or NLA. Only if the kid is an absolutely amazing talent with already pretty good maturity for his age, there is any point to really go to North American leagues to play as a junior aged player. Better in general to get your skills and confidence gradually to a very high level in the European leagues, and then finally when you are already a ready made international level top player, it is a good time to go to North America.
> 
> Maybe for very special talents like Barkov, Laine, Nylander or Aho there is real point to go already early to North America, but I’m in fact not even sure if it was really the best thing for even their development. Or could it have been that even they would have after all become more skillful and confidently playing players than they are now, if they after all stayed for a couple of more of season to play in Europe. I just really don’t see North American leagues as good for developing top European talents as European top pro leagues are. This is still generally speaking, and might not apply to every European top talent though, as I already mentioned before.



Naturally there's no "one size fits all"-model for this, but after Granlund's slow adjustment to NA, we have seen more and more Finns jumping straight into the deep end in their d+1 and d+2 seasons, and it seems to be working out for quite a few of them. I think for top-10 talent drafted out of Liiga, it's better to head for AHL or NHL after d+1 season to start adjusting for the NA game and life. Players drafted later probably still have some adjusting to the pro game in general, and they can work on that in Europe.


----------



## dellzor

Let's fire everyone here

https://i.imgur.com/uIIGd3i.png

Each off season our players gain mass but are unable to adapt to their new weight. Remember when Virtanen bulked? (lol)


----------



## Hansen

dellzor said:


> Let's fire everyone here
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/uIIGd3i.png
> 
> Each off season our players gain mass but are unable to adapt to their new weight. Remember when Virtanen bulked? (lol)



Strength and conditioning guys need to go. It's unacceptable.

Virtanen spent all summer "adding strength" and f***ing showed up at camp bulked up to 230lbs and he lost his legs. Couldn't skate worth a damn, conditioning was at a zero.

Tryamkin, spends summer in Vancouver training, f***ing jackass Desjardins scratches him for 10 games because he's "out of shape", doesn't have the conditioning to play. He went from 250~ to 265 that summer.

Juolevi, also spends the summer in Vancouver training. f***ing idiot Benning and whole organization wailing away that he might not reach 200lbs and, as such, won't be "strong" enough to play in the NHL. He bulks the f*** up from 180-185lbs all the way to 200+ in one summer and all of a sudden can't skate anymore either. Looks like ass in pre-season and training camp. Team is baffled. Now he's back in Finland and has probably lost a lot of that weight just from playing and the change in rhythm that the season presents and now he looks good again, probably around 190-195.

Vancouver should have some serious concerns about what their training staff is actually doing with their players and whether it is helping them or not. The prospects aren't the only ones who suffered from it, Jannik Hansen bulked up quite a bit same year Virtanen did and lost his step considerably until after Winter holidays, and there were a number of players who had gained weight coming into camp to less notable effect.


----------



## lawrence

12 pts in his last 10 games since he didn’t get a single point in 1st 4 games. Skating is not one of his weaknesses . Does need to bulk up,


----------



## elitepete

DownGoesMcDavid said:


> Speed and strength is easier to teach and gain than IQ and Instinct which is what OJ is elite at.
> 
> I see a Roman Josi type as his absoloute ceiling.



Lmao do you ever watch ice hockey? 

He is NOTHING like Josi.


----------



## CherryToke

Hansen said:


> Strength and conditioning guys need to go. It's unacceptable.
> 
> Virtanen spent all summer "adding strength" and ****ing showed up at camp bulked up to 230lbs and he lost his legs. Couldn't skate worth a damn, conditioning was at a zero.
> 
> Tryamkin, spends summer in Vancouver training, ****ing jackass Desjardins scratches him for 10 games because he's "out of shape", doesn't have the conditioning to play. He went from 250~ to 265 that summer.
> 
> Juolevi, also spends the summer in Vancouver training. ****ing idiot Benning and whole organization wailing away that he might not reach 200lbs and, as such, won't be "strong" enough to play in the NHL. He bulks the **** up from 180-185lbs all the way to 200+ in one summer and all of a sudden can't skate anymore either. Looks like ass in pre-season and training camp. Team is baffled. Now he's back in Finland and has probably lost a lot of that weight just from playing and the change in rhythm that the season presents and now he looks good again, probably around 190-195.
> 
> Vancouver should have some serious concerns about what their training staff is actually doing with their players and whether it is helping them or not. The prospects aren't the only ones who suffered from it, Jannik Hansen bulked up quite a bit same year Virtanen did and lost his step considerably until after Winter holidays, and there were a number of players who had gained weight coming into camp to less notable effect.




Don't forget Horfat!


----------



## Hansen

lawrence said:


> 12 pts in his last 10 games since he didn’t get a single point in 1st 4 games. Skating is not one of his weaknesses . Does need to bulk up,



He does not need to bulk up. He needs to add explosiveness and develop his lean muscle.


----------



## wings5

MAGICMAN1963 said:


> Give him this year and next year in Finland.Let him stew a lil bit...he will be great..no rush...




If I were a betting man I'd say him spending next year in the AHL is more likely. Knowing the Canucks though, good chance they throw him in the fire in the NHL too early..


----------



## sting101

wings5 said:


> If I were a betting man I'd say him spending next year in the AHL is more likely. Knowing the Canucks though, good chance they throw him in the fire in the NHL too early..



They actually have a pretty good situation on LD. Both Edler and Del Zotto will be on the last years of their deals next year.


----------



## Starry Knight

HockeyHistorian said:


> Juolevi's problems are mainly just speed and strength. Otherwise he is pretty much good to go.




In London, his only issue I felt was his compete level. He looked bored by the OHL in his final year here, and I think moving him to the Liiga was absolutely the correct move by Vancouver.


----------



## LeftCoast

Starry Knight said:


> In London, his only issue I felt was his compete level. He looked bored by the OHL in his final year here, and I think moving him to the Liiga was absolutely the correct move by Vancouver.




I'm not sure if it was boredom or the division of the PP and offensive duties in London between Juolevi, Mete, Bouchard and Vande Sompel - but he's really responded with the increased responsibilities in TPS.


----------



## thelittlecoon

Today might have been the best game I've ever seen him play. Was an absolute rock on defense and finished with a +3 and 1 assist. His gap control was fantastic, his breakout passes were as clean as ever, and you're really starting to see his improved intensity in the d-zone. Won almost every board battle with ease and his positioning was perfect all night, didn't seem like KooKoo could do anything in the offensive zone when he was on the ice. He's looking much more comfortable at his new weight and is being used in every situation against the opposing teams' top players, I think their coach loves the kid. Such a calm and assuring presence on the back end that you can trust to always make the right play.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

thelittlecoon said:


> Today might have been the best game I've ever seen him play. Was an absolute rock on defense and finished with a +3 and 1 assist. His gap control was fantastic, his breakout passes were as clean as ever, and you're really starting to see his improved intensity in the d-zone. Won almost every board battle with ease and his positioning was perfect all night, didn't seem like KooKoo could do anything in the offensive zone when he was on the ice. He's looking much more comfortable at his new weight and is being used in every situation against the opposing teams' top players, I think their coach loves the kid. Such a calm and assuring presence on the back end that you can trust to always make the right play.



I said that everyone should give him time when he was criticized at the start. First time playing against pros and everything... he is adjusting way more earlier than I thought tho. As you said, he was absolutely fantastic today despite only scoring 1 secondary assist. I absolutely love him here already.


----------



## M2Beezy

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> I said that everyone should give him time when he was criticized at the start. First time playing against pros and everything... he is adjusting way more earlier than I though tho. As you said, he was absolutely fantastic today despite only scoring 1 secondary assist. I absolutely love him here already.




Great to hear


----------



## thelittlecoon

Just destroyed a guy into the boards, maybe one of the biggest hits I've seen from him. Having another solid game, 1 assist so far.


----------



## skyo

Starry Knight said:


> In London, his only issue I felt was his compete level. He looked bored by the OHL in his final year here, *and I think moving him to the Liiga was absolutely the correct move by Vancouver.*



Yup good move by Jim Benning/Canucks, also hiring Salo to help him.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

He was on another level today.


----------



## BB88

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> He was on another level today.




He deserves a lot of credit for his play, especially considering the amount of ..... he has gotten here since he was drafted.


----------



## FinPanda

Yeah Juolevi was great today. Still odd choice in the shootout.


----------



## docbenton

Olli always shows up for the big games, last WJC not withstanding. 2 OHL playoff runs and memorial cup run he was excellent, along with 2 WJCs especially against tough opponents with an aggressive forecheck. Even last year he wasn't having a great year but still elevated his game in the OHL playoffs where he was rock solid, made life tough for guys like Strome and DeBrincat and made clutch plays offensively. I still think he has a rather unique skill set should it translate over to the NHL as an elite passer, both on the breakout and the PP. Getting his skating back up to speed has helped him a lot this year, all of last year he was slowed down by extra weight.


----------



## IComeInPeace

wings5 said:


> *Knowing the Canucks though*, good chance they throw him in the fire in the NHL too early..



I don’t know that a thread on Olli Juolevi is a good one to discuss your viewpoint the Canucks are rushing their prospects.


----------



## nowhereman

IComeInPeace said:


> I don’t know that a thread on Olli Juolevi is a good one to discuss your viewpoint the Canucks are rushing their prospects.



Funny enough, the Canucks aren't really known for rushing their prospects. McCaan and Virtanen are the exception but both earned their way on to the roster, when they made it. Outside of that year, the Canucks usually take a pretty conservative approach to development.


----------



## lawrence

docbenton said:


> Olli always shows up for the big games, last WJC not withstanding. 2 OHL playoff runs and memorial cup run he was excellent, along with 2 WJCs especially against tough opponents with an aggressive forecheck. Even last year he wasn't having a great year but still elevated his game in the OHL playoffs where he was rock solid, made life tough for guys like Strome and DeBrincat and made clutch plays offensively. I still think he has a rather unique skill set should it translate over to the NHL as an elite passer, both on the breakout and the PP. Getting his skating back up to speed has helped him a lot this year, all of last year he was slowed down by extra weight.




aside from his 1st 4 games of his regular season, he's been putting up points at a historical pace as a under 20 player in that leauge. He's been playing very well since. People seem to want cherry pick his 2017 season and called it a regression, when he actually maintined the exact number of points while London losing so many stars from previous years.


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

Craig button drooling about Juolevi


----------



## lawrence

DownGoesMcDavid said:


> Craig button drooling about Juolevi





Not sure whats up with him. Ever since the Virtanen draft, he's loved a bunch of Canuck prospects. Not sure if he's for real or just sucking up to us.


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

lawrence said:


> Not sure whats up with him. Ever since the Virtanen draft, he's loved a bunch of Canuck prospects. Not sure if he's for real or just sucking up to us.





Watch that shift by shift package. 

Juolevi controlled all 3 zones. Could have had at least 5 pts if Fins had more ...well, Finish


----------



## maroon 6

lawrence said:


> Not sure whats up with him. Ever since the Virtanen draft, he's loved a bunch of Canuck prospects. Not sure if he's for real or just sucking up to us.




He had Boeser ranked highly before the Canucks picked him and had Virtanen ranked in the second round before the Canucks picked him. It's nothing to do with the Canucks.


----------



## FinPanda

Nice goal tonight in the 1st period.


----------



## HockeyHistorian

Juolevi was looking very dynamic offensively tonight.


----------



## M2Beezy

HockeyHistorian said:


> Juolevi was looking very dynamic offensively tonight.



About time


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> About time



What's with your hatred towards Juolevi?


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

Here's the full sequence


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

HockeyHistorian said:


> Juolevi was looking very dynamic offensively tonight.




You watched the game I assume? Was there a reason he didn't play much in the 3rd? injury or was he benched for some reason?


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> You watched the game I assume? Was there a reason he didn't play much in the 3rd? injury or was he benched for some reason?



The coach prefers vets.


----------



## lawrence

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> What's with your hatred towards Juolevi?




you know he's not a Canuck fan right? dead giveaway as he continues to praise Leafs players, and took shots at Elias Pettersson after a game where he had 0 points in his last game.

disgrace.


----------



## Dzonna

Someone give me the objective low down on this guy. Defence have gone to nhl in his draft but not him. Why?


----------



## member 105785

Dzonna said:


> Someone give me the objective low down on this guy. Defence have gone to nhl in his draft but not him. Why?




Needs to develop more, he's doing well in Finland and the Canucks suck, no reason to make him play in the NHL now when he's doing well with Salo overseas.


----------



## Son of Petter

Basically this. OJ was always more of a project but he’s progressing really well, especially this year, despite what the narrative has been. 


archer cartridge said:


> Needs to develop more, he's doing well in Finland and the Canucks suck, no reason to make him play in the NHL now when he's doing well with Salo overseas.


----------



## BB88

Dzonna said:


> Someone give me the objective low down on this guy. Defence have gone to nhl in his draft but not him. Why?




Strenght had been an issue with him, he probably bulked up too much in the offseason and it showed in his steps.
Had a weak camp, now has developed very well.


----------



## IComeInPeace

Dzonna said:


> Someone give me the objective low down on this guy. Defence have gone to nhl in his draft but not him. Why?



He was too skinny/weak when drafted, and even at the time, was considered at least 2 seasons away, maybe 3.

His last season in the OHL, after London lost key players, was either not as good, or at the very least didn’t improve significantly. Mete either became the teams #1 d-man, or co #1. His game stepped up significantly in the playoffs though.

He did not look good in Canucks camp 2 seasons ago. For a guy that’s supposed to be a really smart player, he’d make some significant defensive mistakes.

This past camp (his 2nd), he showed up having put on a very significant amount of weight over a short period of time (in an attempt to address a major concern before he could be considered NHL ready).

He was significantly slower/ less mobile. Still made the occasional defensive gaffe.

Started off slowly in Finland over the first handful of games (said to be at least in part due to the weight gain), but has been playing great hockey for the most part after his first couple of weeks there.

The biggest criticism/concern with him at this point (leaving size/strength out of it, as that will work itself out with a bit more time) is that for a guy who is said to be a very cerebral player (at least that’s how he was advertised at the time of the draft), he has brainfarts in the defensive end of the ice.

I think he’s actually going to be more of an offensively capable d-man than we were led to believe, and perhaps a guy that isn’t really conservative in his own end of the ice.

Sami Salo (assistant coach in Finland) recently said he’s coming a long nicely, and should be a good one if he keeps progressing the way he is.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

I can't understand the argument of him being a bust 'cos he hasn't "already" made it. He is 5 months older than Makar, but you don't see people claiming him to be a bust do you? Defensemen usually take a bit longer to develop and on top of that he was physically raw when he was drafted. He shouldn't have been drafted that early probably, but give him some time.


----------



## Coaches Coroner

lawrence said:


> you know he's not a Canuck fan right? dead giveaway as he continues to praise Leafs players, and took shots at Elias Pettersson after a game where he had 0 points in his last game.
> 
> disgrace.



I've seen you do the very thing you are constantly complaining about in several Leaf and other prospects threads.


----------



## timbermen

He's going to be good.I hope the Canucks end up with Rasmus Dahlin or Adam Boquist in the draft,their defence will be great in a couple years.


----------



## MardyBum

lawrence said:


> you know he's not a Canuck fan right? dead giveaway as he continues to praise Leafs players, and took shots at Elias Pettersson after a game where he had 0 points in his last game.
> 
> disgrace.




His obsession with Gaudette says otherwise. 

He just panics and freaks out about prospects a lot.


----------



## Ippenator

BB88 said:


> Strenght had been an issue with him, he probably bulked up too much in the offseason and it showed in his steps.
> Had a weak camp, now has developed very well.



It’s still the right way to bulk up, if you really need bulking up, as Juolevi has for sure needed. It’s how it works exactly with a lot of young players that they get a short setback after bulking up, but then when they get used to the bulked up body during the next season it will be much easier going on after that.

This is in fact a big reason often behind the so called sophomore slump, as many young players after their rookie season understand that they need to bulk up much more to keep up with the strength that is needed to be succesful in the NHL. Then the next season goes more with getting used to the new body and skating with it. Same has been going with Laine this season, and it has happened to numerous young talents before.

You seem to somehow believe that youngsters can bulk up in a way that will not have them getting used to their body and skating again. If they truly want to become as soon as possible real NHL caliber players strengthwise too, then this equasion is simply unavoidable. And I definitely see it as a good way to get a young player NHL ready as quickly as possible.

Some people just seem to be way too impatient with the player development with young talented players that some of these kind of things are not acknowledged at all.


----------



## BB88

Ippenator said:


> It’s still the right way to bulk up, if you really need bulking up, as Juolevi has for sure needed. It’s how it works exactly with a lot of young players that they get a short setback after bulking up, but then when they get used to the bulked up body during the next season it will be much easier going on after that.
> 
> This is in fact a big reason often behind the so called sophomore slump, as many young players after their rookie season understand that they need to bulk up much more to keep up with the strength that is needed to be succesful in the NHL. Then the next season goes more with getting used to the new body and skating with it. Same has been going with Laine this season, and it has happened to numerous young talents before.
> 
> You seem to somehow believe that youngsters can bulk up in a way that will not have them getting used to their body and skating again. If they truly want to become as soon as possible real NHL caliber players strengthwise too, then this equasion is simply unavoidable. And I definitely see it as a good way to get a young player NHL ready as quickly as possible.
> 
> Some people just seem to be way too impatient with the player development with young talented players that some of these kind of things are not acknowledged at all.




I disagree with that, I don't believe that you have to be worse at 1st if you want to be better later. Confidence is everything for rookies/prospects and I don't like it if they start struggling right from the pre season.
If you take a step back you need to take a massive development step so we can say that player has really developed, and messing up with the weight gaining can affect skating longterm.

There's a limit how much muscle you can add in a offseason, extra fat does nothing for you now or longterm. Build the muscle properly& with consistency.


----------



## Ippenator

BB88 said:


> I disagree with that, I don't believe that you have to be worse at 1st if you want to be better later. Confidence is everything for rookies/prospects and I don't like it if they start struggling right from the pre season.
> If you take a step back you need to take a massive development step so we can say that player has really developed, and messing up with the weight gaining can affect skating longterm.
> 
> There's a limit how much muscle you can add in a offseason, extra fat does nothing for you now or longterm. Build the muscle properly& with consistency.



Sorry, but you dont seem to know really how the bulking up works for most of the young players. When you train in the right way and eat the right kind of nutrition, you will not get too much of extra fat. And they do often stamina training around the same time, to exactly avoid too much of fat gaining. This is exactly how it worked for Laine, and I have understood that the same has applied to Juolevi’s training.

They are anyway training with absolute top training professionals, so they are definitely going forward in a very good and smart way.

Btw, look at any of the Finnish top players and you will see that they have gone the same route. Barkov, Granlund, Rantanen and Ristolainen all for example had one set back season in their skating as they bulked up a lot to get enough of physical tools to start building their skating to a clearly better direction. When you have bulked up, only then there is more efficient use from training skating technique with for example figure skating trainers. This is exactly how both Barkov and Granlund have done. First they bulked up as quickly as they could after their rookie seasons, then they had their setback season, and then after that they started training their skating technique intensively.

It’s best to have a good plan for a longer period and not just for one season, if you want to truly become a real top class player. You just don’t seem to get it. Sometimes getting better in the long run can mean that you have to make some short time sacrifices.


----------



## M2Beezy

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> What's with your hatred towards Juolevi?



Enough with the victim nonsense hes just progressed VERY slowly bub


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Enough with the victim nonsense hes just progressed VERY slowly bub



What? Don't comment anything if you have nothing to add to the discussion. You always comment something negative if someone dares to post something positive, just shut the f*** up.


----------



## Frankie Blueberries

I feel like he's going to be a low-event, positionally sound top 4 dman. He won't be flashy. He won't put up huge points (maybe 40 point prime, but probably somewhere between 25-35).

He'll have a slick breakout pass and a good stick, and will be positionally aware with a decent hockey IQ. Think a poor man's Tanev/Hamhuis defensively, mixed with a player with higher offence, like Maatta. He might be able to quarter-back our PP, but more as a passer/puck distributor, with the occasional decent wrist shot.


----------



## lawrence

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Enough with the victim nonsense hes just progressed VERY slowly bub




???? he's 19.... 




MardyBum said:


> His obsession with Gaudette says otherwise.




that's his mask. deep down he's not a fan of the team. Not sure what his agenda is though. 



50 Sheas of Grey said:


> I feel like he's going to be a low-event, positionally sound top 4 dman. He won't be flashy. He won't put up huge points (maybe 40 point prime, but probably somewhere between 25-35).




yea, most of us are expecting Hampus Lindholm like numbers.


----------



## clay

50 Sheas of Grey said:


> I feel like he's going to be a low-event, positionally sound top 4 dman. He won't be flashy. He won't put up huge points (maybe 40 point prime, but probably somewhere between 25-35).
> 
> He'll have a slick breakout pass and a good stick, and will be positionally aware with a decent hockey IQ. Think a poor man's Tanev/Hamhuis defensively, mixed with a player with higher offence, like Maatta. He might be able to quarter-back our PP, but more as a passer/puck distributor, with the occasional decent wrist shot.




I completely agree with this assessment. A solid player to have in your top 4 to be sure, but you obviously are shooting for more with your 5th overall pick.


----------



## timbermen

Reseob ot Etteduag said:


> Enough with the victim nonsense hes just progressed VERY slowly bub



Didn't they just draft him?He's putting up good numbers for TPS along with Petrus Palmu.


----------



## jd22

MardyBum said:


> His obsession with Gaudette says otherwise.
> 
> He just panics and freaks out about prospects a lot.




Fixed.


----------



## Frankie Blueberries

lawrence said:


> yea, most of us are expecting Hampus Lindholm like numbers.




I don't know if that's sarcasm, considering Lindholm is a top 20 dman in the league, which is far and above what Juolevi would ever hope to be.
If you're being sarcastic, which part of my post is unrealistic? Need I remind you that Kevin Bieksa hit 40 points in 3 different seasons?


----------



## 7even

I see so many memes about Juolevi and then I check his stats and they look pretty damn promising. Am I missing something or are Nuck fans flagellating themselves over Tkachuk?


----------



## Drew Doubty

50 Sheas of Grey said:


> I don't know if that's sarcasm, considering Lindholm is a top 20 dman in the league, which is far and above what Juolevi would ever hope to be.
> If you're being sarcastic, which part of my post is unrealistic? Need I remind you that Kevin Bieksa hit 40 points in 3 different seasons?




Lindholm's career high in pts is 34, and I don't think he's top 20


----------



## Addison Rae

Hampus Lindholm in his draft + 2 season scores 30 points and was second among defenders on his team in scoring, a team that won its division and almost beat the team that won the cup. 

People see low event defensive players with upside and always compare them to Lindholm or Tanev. Both these players are at the absolute top of their craft and are not the medium. It’s like saying wow this player is really skilled and relatively small let’s compare him to Patrick Kane! 

Juolevi is having a good season and his development is back on track. He absolutely should be in the NHL next though. To me he projects as a low evan middle pairing guy that can be effective on the power play and is good at transitioning the puck, I think his possession excellents will correlate to the NHL too.


----------



## Saekk

Hockeyisl1fe said:


> What? Don't comment anything if you have nothing to add to the discussion. You always comment something negative if someone dares to post something positive, just shut the **** up.



Sheesh, you can't say that to a 12-year old.


----------



## schnapshot

50 Sheas of Grey said:


> I feel like he's going to be a low-event, positionally sound top 4 dman. He won't be flashy. He won't put up huge points (maybe 40 point prime, but probably somewhere between 25-35).
> 
> He'll have a slick breakout pass and a good stick, and will be positionally aware with a decent hockey IQ. Think a poor man's Tanev/Hamhuis defensively, mixed with a player with higher offence, like Maatta. He might be able to quarter-back our PP, but more as a passer/puck distributor, with the occasional decent wrist shot.



I was thinking the best comparison to what you described is Anton Stralman.


----------



## BB88

7even said:


> I see so many memes about Juolevi and then I check his stats and they look pretty damn promising. Am I missing something or are Nuck fans flagellating themselves over Tkachuk?




Majority of the fans seem to be stuck on last year/what they saw in the pre season, I doubt too many of them have followed him in Liiga.


----------



## Drew Doubty

dim jim said:


> Hampus Lindholm in his draft + 2 season scores 30 points and was second among defenders on his team in scoring, a team that won its division and almost beat the team that won the cup.
> 
> People see low event defensive players with upside and always compare them to Lindholm or Tanev. Both these players are at the absolute top of their craft and are not the medium. It’s like saying wow this player is really skilled and relatively small let’s compare him to Patrick Kane!
> 
> Juolevi is having a good season and his development is back on track. He absolutely should be in the NHL next though. To me he projects as a low evan middle pairing guy that can be effective on the power play and is good at transitioning the puck, I think his possession excellents will correlate to the NHL too.




Well the original comment was "I think we're expecting Hamphus Lindholm type numbers" which to me means point production. So yeah, 30 ish pts/year is about where we expect Juolevi to be at. No one said "we expect him to be as good as or better than Lindholm in every part of his game" though that could be the case. Maybe by numbers you thought he meant advanced stats?


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

7even said:


> I see so many memes about Juolevi and then I check his stats and they look pretty damn promising. Am I missing something or are Nuck fans flagellating themselves over Tkachuk?



Well, a few long time posters on the Canucks board hated this pick from the start and kept focusing on his underwhelming D+1 season, refuse to give him credit for his development this season in Findland. 
This along makes the majority ppl think that he’s not developing well


----------



## Frankie Blueberries

BKVCMU said:


> Well, a few long time posters on the Canucks board hated this pick from the start and kept focusing on his underwhelming D+1 season, refuse to give him credit for his development this season in Findland.
> This along makes the majority ppl think that he’s not developing well




+Attitude issues.

The criticism for Juolevi is justified to a certain extent, and wanting Tkachuk over him at the time was glaringly obvious decision to make.


----------



## arttk

BKVCMU said:


> Well, a few long time posters on the Canucks board hated this pick from the start and kept focusing on his underwhelming D+1 season, refuse to give him credit for his development this season in Findland.
> This along makes the majority ppl think that he’s not developing well



Well he is not developing like a top paring D.


----------



## Siludin

I'm still long on Juolevi. If the Canucks can take another defenseman in the Top 10 this year, I think that gives them a good look going forward, even if it's not Dahlin.


----------



## Ippenator

arttk said:


> Well he is not developing like a top paring D.



And what makes you so sure of that? In fact his latest development has been very impressive, so I at least wouldn’t be so hasty to write him off from being even in an NHL top pairing in his prime. I’m not claiming he will be there for sure, but I think it is also quite foolish to write him off after his recent very good development.


----------



## Legend Leinonen

Ippenator said:


> Sorry, but you dont seem to know really how the bulking up works for most of the young players. When you train in the right way and eat the right kind of nutrition, you will not get too much of extra fat. And they do often stamina training around the same time, to exactly avoid too much of fat gaining. This is exactly how it worked for Laine, and I have understood that the same has applied to Juolevi’s training.
> 
> They are anyway training with absolute top training professionals, so they are definitely going forward in a very good and smart way.
> 
> Btw, look at any of the Finnish top players and you will see that they have gone the same route. Barkov, Granlund, Rantanen and Ristolainen all for example had one set back season in their skating as they bulked up a lot to get enough of physical tools to start building their skating to a clearly better direction. When you have bulked up, only then there is more efficient use from training skating technique with for example figure skating trainers. This is exactly how both Barkov and Granlund have done. First they bulked up as quickly as they could after their rookie seasons, then they had their setback season, and then after that they started training their skating technique intensively.
> 
> It’s best to have a good plan for a longer period and not just for one season, if you want to truly become a real top class player. You just don’t seem to get it. Sometimes getting better in the long run can mean that you have to make some short time sacrifices.




Bulking up nonsense just wastes a year in their development. Of course they start to develop after they stop with that nonsense.

Juolevi came to camp fat because he had stupid coach who turned him into slow fat guy. Now when he has lost the fat, he's elevating his game. I think it's a pretty dumb training method to turn athlete into fatso, so you can say in 6 months, "see he is now playing better like a told" (after the poor kid lost the fat with slowed him down at the beginning duh)


----------



## arttk

Ippenator said:


> And what makes you so sure of that? In fact his latest development has been very impressive, so I at least wouldn’t be so hasty to write him off from being even in an NHL top pairing in his prime. I’m not claiming he will be there for sure, but I think it is also quite foolish to write him off after his recent very good development.



Because if he was developing like a top paring D he would be playing in the NHL. 
Unless you are suggesting that Juolevi is some kind of outlier. 

It’s not writing him off but being more realistic based off of what he has shown to date. He seems back on track but stagnating for one year and playing badly during the preseason is not something you would see from a potential 1st paring guy.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

arttk said:


> Because if he was developing like a top paring D he would be playing in the NHL.
> Unless you are suggesting that Juolevi is some kind of outlier.
> 
> It’s not writing him off but being more realistic based off of what he has shown to date. He seems back on track but stagnating for one year and playing badly during the preseason is not something you would see from a potential 1st paring guy.



I feel like you have a distorted image of how defenders develop. I'd say those who play in the NHL during their D+1 and D+2 seasons are the outliers. If you have the time, go through the defenders you consider 1st pairing (that means about 62 defenders) and see when they entered the NHL.


----------



## Ippenator

Legend Leinonen said:


> Bulking up nonsense just wastes a year in their development. Of course they start to develop after they stop with that nonsense.
> 
> Juolevi came to camp fat because he had stupid coach who turned him into slow fat guy. Now when he has lost the fat, he's elevating his game. I think it's a pretty dumb training method to turn athlete into fatso, so you can say in 6 months, "see he is now playing better like a told" (after the poor kid lost the fat with slowed him down at the beginning duh)



So lost and so aggressive. So sad really.


----------



## arttk

TheFinnishTrap said:


> I feel like you have a distorted image of how defenders develop. I'd say those who play in the NHL during their D+1 and D+2 seasons are the outliers. If you have the time, go through the defenders you consider 1st pairing (that means about 62 defenders) and see when they entered the NHL.



Let's look at 1st paring guys that were drafted in the 1st round 

Shea Weber - D+2 in the NHL part time 
Karlsson - D+1 in the NHL 
Suter - D+2 in the NHL full time 
Pietrangelo - D+3 in the NHL full time (injured in D+2 year) 
Doughty - D+1 full time 
Lindholm - D+2 full time 

I can go through more of this but I will concede that playing in D+1 is more outlier but for guys drafted in the 1st round who ends up being a 1st paring guy, they are pretty much in the NHL by D+2. Basically Juolevi's play is what we would've hoped to see last year. I know he is getting back on track but most guys who become 1st paring guys just don't stagnate in their D+1 season.


----------



## Love

arttk said:


> Let's look at 1st paring guys that were drafted in the 1st round
> 
> Shea Weber - D+2 in the NHL part time
> Karlsson - D+1 in the NHL
> Suter - D+2 in the NHL full time
> Pietrangelo - D+3 in the NHL full time (injured in D+2 year)
> Doughty - D+1 full time
> Lindholm - D+2 full time
> 
> I can go through more of this but I will concede that playing in D+1 is more outlier but for guys drafted in the 1st round who ends up being a 1st paring guy, they are pretty much in the NHL by D+2. Basically Juolevi's play is what we would've hoped to see last year. I know he is getting back on track but most guys who become 1st paring guys just don't stagnate in their D+1 season.




Weber wasn't a first rounder and didn't make the NHL part time until D+3.

Karlsson didn't make it until D+2.

Suter D+3.

Pietrangelo D+3

Doughty D+1

Lindholm D+2

So you got Doughty and Lindholm right but the rest are off by a year.


----------



## HockeyAnalystGenius

Oh, the bulker crowd of unathletic posters is here. No it's not a good idea. Yes it delays every prospect's development. Terrible staff management in Vancouver the last several years.


----------



## Siludin

It's not like Juolevi is taking a statistical dump this year (compare to Virtanen's minor league numbers). He is doing well in his graduation to playing against men. Salo is the single most underrated top pairing defenseman in NHL history imo - if he can rub off on Juolevi the Canucks are in for a good ride.
Hope they can skip the injury bug.


----------



## Legend Leinonen

HockeyAnalystGenius said:


> Oh, the bulker crowd of unathletic posters is here. No it's not a good idea. Yes it delays every prospect's development. Terrible staff management in Vancouver the last several years.




If you tell a young kid that he needs to weigh this and this to play in the NHL or in next training camp, the basic human psychology is to cheat (conciously or unconciously). In other words he's going to eat himself to that weight. It's so obvious even by looking at these kids physiques that they just got fat - nothing more. I know what 10 kg muscle looks like - doesn't look like these kids.


----------



## Ippenator

Legend Leinonen said:


> If you tell a young kid that he needs to weigh this and this to play in the NHL or in next training camp, the basic human psychology is to cheat (conciously or unconciously). In other words he's going to eat himself to that weight. It's so obvious even by looking at these kids physiques that they just got fat - nothing more. I know what 10 kg muscle looks like - doesn't look like these kids.



OMG how bad post! Nothing to do with realism. You seriously think that kids that that are very talented and are looking for to get into the best hockey league in the world would be so damn stupid to cheat like that? If your seriously believe in that you are completely naive.

You have so much holes in your logic and your knowledge about training seems to be completely lacking. I can see that you are furious though about kids doing some bulking up. But the thing is that when they do it with the help of professionals it is most of the time done right. I think you should seriously study thoroughly how players like Granlund, Barkov and Rantanen were doing their bulking up, and how their careers took a setback year or even two before they started to get really going with their careers. They did the needed bulking up and then started to focus more on other things. I don’t see anyone complaining now.

You should also realize that the bulking up that is done is done exactly mostly to add more explosive strength to the legs, and then generally more strength to the core. This kind of strength is really absolutely necessary to gain before you will have a good enough foundation to build on to really be able to make it in the NHL.

If you don’t do the needed and right kind of bulking up, you will, instead of one year of a setback season, most likely have several years of mediocrity, as a player with not enough basic strength will just not have a chance to do really well in the NHL even nowadays.


----------



## Legend Leinonen

Ippenator said:


> OMG how bad post! Nothing to do with realism. You seriously think that kids that that are very talented and are looking for to get into the best hockey league in the world would be so damn stupid to cheat like that? If your seriously believe in that you are completely naive.
> 
> You have so much holes in your logic and your knowledge about training seems to be completely lacking. I can see that you are furious though about kids doing some bulking up. But the thing is that when they do it with the help of professionals it is most of the time done right. I think you should seriously study thoroughly how players like Granlund, Barkov and Rantanen were doing their bulking up, and how their careers took a setback year or even two before they started to get really going with their careers. They did the needed bulking up and then started to focus more on other things. I don’t see anyone complaining now.
> 
> You should also realize that the bulking up that is done is done exactly mostly to add more explosive strength to the legs, and then generally more strength to the core. This kind of strength is really absolutely necessary to gain before you will have a good enough foundation to build on to really be able to make it in the NHL.
> 
> If you don’t do the needed and right kind of bulking up, you will, instead of one year of a setback season, most likely have several years of mediocrity, as a player with not enough basic strength will just not have a chance to do really well in the NHL even nowadays.




There is just no way you can prove none of those players needed to waste a year playing fat, to play good now. &yeah young players come fat to camp all the time. Just use your eyes. It's so freaking obvious that 99% of these so called "Fitness coaches" are just modern day snake oil salesmen.


----------



## stampedingviking

7even said:


> I see so many memes about Juolevi and then I check his stats and they look pretty damn promising. Am I missing something or are Nuck fans flagellating themselves over Tkachuk?



There's a certain element of Canuck "fans" who will moan at everything that Benning does/has done, especially prospects if they don't make the NHL in their draft +1 year, otherwise they will be considered a bust.


----------



## Ippenator

stampedingviking said:


> There's a certain element of Canuck "fans" who will moan at everything that Benning does/has done, especially prospects if they don't make the NHL in their draft +1 year, otherwise they will be considered a bust.



I have noticed this when reading posts on the Canucks board. Really ruthless handling of Virtanen and Juolevi at least. In fact it’s starting to look to me like Benning’s been after all doing a pretty decent job. People are just sometimes so damn impatient. Honestly gets on my nerves sometimes when people are right away crying when things don’t go exactly how they would have wanted. And when things don’t go like that they even seriously think that they know better than the professional people that have the responsibility. Ok, sometimes professionals can be wrong too, but to expect that they are wrong with practically everything they have done is really absurd.

There’s tons of variables that can change and with that change the expected end result. So don’t expect that what you would have done would have necessarily worked any better, as you don’t know for sure how all the variables could have changed the end result for you too.


----------



## Hokinaittii

Is there any reason why he didn't play tonight?


----------



## eviohh26

Pretty sure the guy with all the wrong stats aint coming back. Mr. arttk


----------



## M2Beezy

stampedingviking said:


> There's a certain element of Canuck "fans" who will moan at everything that Benning does/has done, especially prospects if they don't make the NHL in their draft +1 year, otherwise they will be considered a bust.



Wtf Canucks fans love Boeser Pettersson Lind Demko and Gaudette

????

Two top ten wasted picks tho thats the mondo mistake


----------



## blindpass

Elias Pettersson said:


> Umm did you see the part where all his information was made up ans not true?



I saw the errors that were pointed out. What were you adding?


----------



## Elias Pettersson

blindpass said:


> I saw the errors that were pointed out. What were you adding?



Calling out the fake news sources to make sure they don't spread lies like CNN. Sad!


----------



## arttk

Love said:


> Weber wasn't a first rounder and didn't make the NHL part time until D+3.
> 
> Karlsson didn't make it until D+2.
> 
> Suter D+3.
> 
> Pietrangelo D+3
> 
> Doughty D+1
> 
> Lindholm D+2
> 
> So you got Doughty and Lindholm right but the rest are off by a year.




Oops I guess I counted it wrong. Suter well I guess wouldn’t have been able to join because of the lockout and pietrangeo was pretty much injured. 

Point is, can anyone say that these guys regressed?


----------



## arttk

eviohh26 said:


> Pretty sure the guy with all the wrong stats aint coming back. Mr. arttk



No I am still here, no problem admitting to mistakes.


----------



## arttk

Ippenator said:


> I have noticed this when reading posts on the Canucks board. Really ruthless handling of Virtanen and Juolevi at least. In fact it’s starting to look to me like Benning’s been after all doing a pretty decent job. People are just sometimes so damn impatient. Honestly gets on my nerves sometimes when people are right away crying when things don’t go exactly how they would have wanted. And when things don’t go like that they even seriously think that they know better than the professional people that have the responsibility. Ok, sometimes professionals can be wrong too, but to expect that they are wrong with practically everything they have done is really absurd.
> 
> There’s tons of variables that can change and with that change the expected end result. So don’t expect that what you would have done would have necessarily worked any better, as you don’t know for sure how all the variables could have changed the end result for you too.



Virtanen is pretty much a bust, how do you expect us to react to him? 
Benning is doing a horrible job, if he has been rebuilding since he has taken over, sure. He hasn’t, not even close. 
It’s not about impatience, it’s about being realistic. Most prospects don’t make it to the NHL and only a really small number becomes good players. The best tool we have now is look at all the guys who has made it there and use their development track as a comparison point. Based off of that, at best we can project Juolevi as a top4 guy. It doesn’t mean he can’t, it’s just that when you look at all the top paring guys, Juolevi is not developing like they were.


----------



## Ippenator

arttk said:


> Virtanen is pretty much a bust, how do you expect us to react to him?
> Benning is doing a horrible job, if he has been rebuilding since he has taken over, sure. He hasn’t, not even close.
> It’s not about impatience, it’s about being realistic. Most prospects don’t make it to the NHL and only a really small number becomes good players. The best tool we have now is look at all the guys who has made it there and use their development track as a comparison point. Based off of that, at best we can project Juolevi as a top4 guy. It doesn’t mean he can’t, it’s just that when you look at all the top paring guys, Juolevi is not developing like they were.



Right now he is, so just shut up, quit whining and watch how things fold out...


----------



## arttk

Ippenator said:


> Right now he is, so just shut up, quit whining and watch how things fold out...



Chill out, talk about having a low bar for what constitutes as “whining”. I have made like 3 or 4 posts in this whole thread, apparently disagreeing with you is whining eh. I guess who is the bigger whiner. 

He looks better than last year and the preseason, but in terms of development, he is one year behind.


----------



## elitepete

Opens Juolevi thread

Sees people talking about some nonsensical shit

Exits thread


----------



## Krnuckfan

stampedingviking said:


> There's a certain element of Canuck "fans" who will moan at everything that Benning does/has done, especially prospects if they don't make the NHL in their draft +1 year, otherwise they will be considered a bust.




Quit your whining. No one was complaining about Boeser and no one is complaining about how Pettersson and lind are developing.

There's a blind subset of "fans" who are more happy just playing cheerleader for a team than actually wanting them to win a cup and defending the moron of a gm no matter what he does


----------



## stampedingviking

Krnuckfan said:


> Quit your whining. No one was complaining about Boeser and no one is complaining about how Pettersson and lind are developing.
> 
> There's a blind subset of "fans" who are more happy just playing cheerleader for a team than actually wanting them to win a cup and defending the moron of a gm no matter what he does



That's the problem in a nutshell, "the moron of a gm".

He's not, otherwise he wouldn't have picked Boeser, Lind, Gad etc that apparently everyone likes. Yes he's made some mistakes, what GM hasn't? He's still nowhere near the worst GM in the league. The hate from Canuck "fans" on these boards is ridiculous and OTT.


----------



## Offre Hostile

Damn does this kid get just destroyed around here because he had a worse D+1 season than some players drafted after him.


----------



## The Iron Goalie

Fault and Fracture said:


> Damn does this kid get just destroyed around here because he had a worse D+1 season than some players drafted after him.




Honestly, just speaks to the quality of the 2016 top 10.


----------



## Offre Hostile

OEL for Norris said:


> Honestly, just speaks to the quality of the 2016 top 10.




True. It makes Juolevi seem much worse than he actually is. I mean, some are even proclaiming him as a bust already which is crazy. He has all the qualities to develop into a top-pairing guy, we don't know if he'll ever get there but the potential is absolutely there. Dude's hockey IQ is off the charts and he has the puck handling abilities to support it, adequate skater too although he won't wow you with that. Just needs to get a bit tougher defensively, he's way too soft without the puck. He seems to need to take more time adjusting to the NHL speed as well but I think he will figure it out some day. To me it looks like he got a bit too comfortable in a dominating OHL team and just wasn't mentally ready for the camp last fall (not that he is by any means a complete player physically either). No need to go nuts over his development at this point.


----------



## justafan22

Fault and Fracture said:


> True. It makes Juolevi seem much worse than he actually is. I mean, some are even proclaiming him as a bust already which is crazy. He has all the qualities to develop into a top-pairing guy, we don't know if he'll ever get there but the potential is absolutely there. Dude's hockey IQ is off the charts and he has the puck handling abilities to support it, adequate skater too although he won't wow you with that. Just needs to get a bit tougher defensively, he's way too soft without the puck. He seems to need to take more time adjusting to the NHL speed as well but I think he will figure it out some day. To me it looks like he got a bit too comfortable in a dominating OHL team and just wasn't mentally ready for the camp last fall (not that he is by any means a complete player physically either). No need to go nuts over his development at this point.




Exact same with Dylan Strome. Just gets hated on because better players went after him.


----------



## Offre Hostile

justafan22 said:


> Exact same with Dylan Strome. Just gets hated on because better players went after him.




Now that you mention him, their post-draft issues do seem very similar despite playing different positions.


----------



## arttk

stampedingviking said:


> That's the problem in a nutshell, "the moron of a gm".
> 
> He's not, otherwise he wouldn't have picked Boeser, Lind, Gad etc that apparently everyone likes. Yes he's made some mistakes, what GM hasn't? He's still nowhere near the worst GM in the league. The hate from Canuck "fans" on these boards is ridiculous and OTT.



Bartkowski
Pedan
Sbisa
Gubranson
Larsen
Clendenning
Pouliot
Del Zotto

This is the list of crap Benning has brought in to fix our D. Benning is the reason why the Canucks suck despite spending near the cap.

And the thing with people saying Juolevi is a bust. Nobody is saying that in the context of him busting out like Virtanen is. The realistic expectation is for him to be just a top4 guy. It’s not bad but not what one would expect for a 5th overall. Disappointing would be a better word than bust.


----------



## stampedingviking

arttk said:


> Bartkowski
> Pedan
> Sbisa
> Gubranson
> Larsen
> Clendenning
> Pouliot
> Del Zotto
> 
> This is the list of crap Benning has brought in to fix our D. Benning is the reason why the Canucks suck despite spending near the cap.
> 
> And the thing with people saying Juolevi is a bust. Nobody is saying that in the context of him busting out like Virtanen is. The realistic expectation is for him to be just a top4 guy. It’s not bad but not what one would expect for a 5th overall. Disappointing would be a better word than bust.



Gud, Del Zotto and Pouliot haven't been as bad as made out on HFC, Pedan at the time was worth the risk, Sbisa whilst not being a world-beater had his moments. Larsen and Clendenning were meh but Benning was trying to make up for the lack of talent coming through the system as Gillis (the saviour to many) sold the future for one very good run at Stanley (even then he couldn't trade for the pieces needed to take the Canucks all the way).


----------



## Elias Pettersson

arttk said:


> Bartkowski
> Pedan
> Sbisa
> Gubranson
> Larsen
> Clendenning
> Pouliot
> Del Zotto
> 
> This is the list of crap Benning has brought in to fix our D. Benning is the reason why the Canucks suck despite spending near the cap.
> 
> And the thing with people saying Juolevi is a bust. Nobody is saying that in the context of him busting out like Virtanen is. The realistic expectation is for him to be just a top4 guy. It’s not bad but not what one would expect for a 5th overall. Disappointing would be a better word than bust.



And the realistic expectation of horvat was a 3rd liner and Boeser a second liner. Why don't you wait until they make the NHL before saying anything for certain?


----------



## Nucklehead Supreme

arttk said:


> Bartkowski
> Pedan
> Sbisa
> Gubranson
> Larsen
> Clendenning
> Pouliot
> Del Zotto
> 
> This is the list of crap Benning has brought in to fix our D. Benning is the reason why the Canucks suck despite spending near the cap.
> 
> And the thing with people saying Juolevi is a bust. Nobody is saying that in the context of him busting out like Virtanen is. The realistic expectation is for him to be just a top4 guy. It’s not bad but not what one would expect for a 5th overall. Disappointing would be a better word than bust.





This team sucks as much as it does because of ownership and Gillis leaving nothing in the cupboard, how do people like you not understand this?

Has Benning been perfect? No, his signings and trades especially, but he is doing what ownership wants, you know they are his boss's right? Also most of his bad signings were short term anyways.

He's also built the best prospect pool this team has had since I've been alive, the future is very bright here.

As for Juolevi, he is 19 years old, you are aware of this? We don't know what he will be yet and most experts, (not the so called ones on here) have him as a top pairing guy, also he is playing very well in the Finish league. Also most Dmen take longer to develop given how hard the position is, so really calling him disappointing as a 19 year old is completely absurd.

More of the same sky is falling mentality that this fanbase embraces.....


----------



## arttk

Elias Pettersson said:


> And the realistic expectation of horvat was a 3rd liner and Boeser a second liner. Why don't you wait until they make the NHL before saying anything for certain?



Bo and Boeser were very consistent in terms of improving every single season, I was high on both of them so you are preaching to the wrong guy.


----------



## arttk

Nucklehead Supreme said:


> This team sucks as much as it does because of ownership and Gillis leaving nothing in the cupboard, how do people like you not understand this?
> 
> Has Benning been perfect? No, his signings and trades especially, but he is doing what ownership wants, you know they are his boss's right? Also most of his bad signings were short term anyways.
> 
> He's also built the best prospect pool this team has had since I've been alive, the future is very bright here.
> 
> As for Juolevi, he is 19 years old, you are aware of this? We don't know what he will be yet and most experts, (not the so called ones on here) have him as a top pairing guy, also he is playing very well in the Finish league. Also most Dmen take longer to develop given how hard the position is, so really calling him disappointing as a 19 year old is completely absurd.
> 
> More of the same sky is falling mentality that this fanbase embraces.....



Oh lol once again it’s Gillis. 
Let’s ignore the “Gillis left behind nothing” bs for a moment. How does that excuse Benning for acquiring bad dman one after another? Because Gillis left nothing so therefore it’s perfectly ok for Benning to fail at every pro scouting acquisition? 

Top paring D don’t take that much longer to develop, they actually show their worth quite early unless there is some kind of big injuries. Juolevi need to take a big ass step this next year to prove he has that potential. Right now he is playing not even at the same level as pre injury Heiskanen who is a year younger.


----------



## arttk

stampedingviking said:


> Gud, Del Zotto and Pouliot haven't been as bad as made out on HFC, Pedan at the time was worth the risk, Sbisa whilst not being a world-beater had his moments. Larsen and Clendenning were meh but Benning was trying to make up for the lack of talent coming through the system as Gillis (the saviour to many) sold the future for one very good run at Stanley (even then he couldn't trade for the pieces needed to take the Canucks all the way).



Gud is terrible, a tough defensive dman who can’t play defense and hasn’t been tough at all with us. 
Del Zotto is one of the leaders in the NHL with GAA when he is on the ice. Pouliot doesn’t know how to play defense. Sbisa is another defensive dman that can’t defend or pass the puck. Clendenning can’t skate and we traded Forsling away for him. It’s complete BS that Gillis left behind nothing. The only functional part of the defense right now are still left over from Gillis. The only part Benning has acquired that is ok is Stecher which is crazy considering we used Kesler plus a whole bunch of picks to try to improve that area. Taking risk is fine if you are successful, if you whiff on everything then that means he is just terrible at it. Nobody bats 100 but Benning is batting closer to 0%.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

arttk said:


> Bo and Boeser were very consistent in terms of improving every single season, I was high on both of them so you are preaching to the wrong guy.



Actually Boeser regressed in his draft +2 season


----------



## M2Beezy

Elias Pettersson said:


> Actually Boeser regressed in his draft +2 season



No he didnt pal he injured his arm in late 2016 which obvi effected his shot. Not one person here whose not a Jets fan said that he regressed lol get with it


----------



## arttk

Elias Pettersson said:


> Actually Boeser regressed in his draft +2 season



Wrist injury, like I said, you would want to see progress barring injury. 
Was Juolevi injured to the point that affects his play?


----------



## Elias Pettersson

arttk said:


> Wrist injury, like I said, you would want to see progress barring injury.
> Was Juolevi injured to the point that affects his play?



So what about his team losing their best scorers? The fact that his stats remained the same IS an improvement because his team got worse


----------



## arttk

Elias Pettersson said:


> So what about his team losing their best scorers? The fact that his stats remained the same IS an improvement because his team got worse



Losing the best scorer doesn’t mean that he couldn’t have dominated, which is a fair expectation for a top pick. Top players more often than not, play well to the point you don’t need to make excuses for them.

One thing you have to understand is that I am a Canucks fan. I want nothing more than for Juolevi to be a 1st paring guy and I will be more than happy if he does become one. I am just more cautious and realistic in my projection because prospects tend to fail and unless they show the same kind of progression you see with other top players, the likelihood of them hitting their top ceiling is pretty low. 

Even for us, Bo is an outlier because rarely do you see any other players improve on their skating the way he has.


----------



## Nucklehead Supreme

arttk said:


> Oh lol once again it’s Gillis.
> Let’s ignore the “Gillis left behind nothing” bs for a moment. *How does that excuse Benning for acquiring bad dman one after another? Because Gillis left nothing so therefore it’s perfectly ok for Benning to fail at every pro scouting acquisition? *
> 
> *Top paring D don’t take that much longer to develop, they actually show their worth quite early unless there is some kind of big injuries. Juolevi need to take a big ass step this next year to prove he has that potential. Right now he is playing not even at the same level as pre injury Heiskanen who is a year younger*.




Real easy bud, you see when your team is dogshit on the ice it's kind of hard to acquire quality players, especially Dmen, you see many athletes in multiple different sports like playing for teams that have a chance of winning, the Canucks realistically haven't had a chance since 2012. Now combine that with the fact that ownership wants nothing more than to make the playoffs every year (so they can get that playoff revenue) and you have a recipe for disaster, in other words it's next to impossible to get these players unless you draft them when your team sucks, hence why I blame Gillis (and to a lesser extent Nonis) given that up until Benning took over we had not drafted a Dman in the first round since Luc Bourdon (RIP) in 2005.

This is a complete fallacy and shows you need to do more research, historically Dmen take longer to develop, (yes even top pairing guys), it's the hardest position on the ice other than goalie, and once again he is* 19* years old, look up patience and learn to practice it, all part of development. Juolevi has been very good in the Finish league, he has not regressed in any way since he was drafted, maybe stop looking at stats and anomaly's and you too will see this. All the scouting reports I have read about him this year have gone on about his IQ, his passing ability and his attitude.


----------



## Aqualung

Christ guys stay on topic. Such a pain to said through pages of off topic banter about Benning and bulking. 

Just make another thread if you want to discuss that. Otherwise let’s just talk about Juolevi.


----------



## elitepete

Lmao of course a Benning supporter started a sob story talking about how Benning gets unfairly criticized.

This is a Juolevi thread


----------



## Nucklehead Supreme

travis scott said:


> Lmao of course a Benning supporter started a sob story talking about how Benning gets unfairly criticized.
> 
> This is a Juolevi thread




I responded to criticism of Benning bud, I did not start it, reading comprehension is your friend.


----------



## elitepete

Nucklehead Supreme said:


> I responded to criticism of Benning bud, I did not start it, reading comprehension is your friend.



Was not talking about you, genius


----------



## arttk

Nucklehead Supreme said:


> Real easy bud, you see when your team is dog**** on the ice it's kind of hard to acquire quality players, especially Dmen, you see many athletes in multiple different sports like playing for teams that have a chance of winning, the Canucks realistically haven't had a chance since 2012. Now combine that with the fact that ownership wants nothing more than to make the playoffs every year (so they can get that playoff revenue) and you have a recipe for disaster, in other words it's next to impossible to get these players unless you draft them when your team sucks, hence why I blame Gillis (and to a lesser extent Nonis) given that up until Benning took over we had not drafted a Dman in the first round since Luc Bourdon (RIP) in 2005.
> 
> This is a complete fallacy and shows you need to do more research, historically Dmen take longer to develop, (yes even top pairing guys), it's the hardest position on the ice other than goalie, and once again he is* 19* years old, look up patience and learn to practice it, all part of development. Juolevi has been very good in the Finish league, he has not regressed in any way since he was drafted, maybe stop looking at stats and anomaly's and you too will see this. All the scouting reports I have read about him this year have gone on about his IQ, his passing ability and his attitude.



Well Flames have no problem doing it and it’s not like the guys that traded for had NTC blocking them from going to us. We could’ve target Hamonic instead of Gubranson. Benning was offered Vatanen or Sbisa and he chose Sbisa. We could’ve kept Forsling instead of acquiring a guy that couldn’t skate. Fact is, whatever the previous management left behind should not make it excusable for Benning to mess up every single D move. Yeah it’s not easy, that’s why he gets paid.

Top paring guys takes time but usually they don’t have a stagnant year especially in junior.


----------



## Nucklehead Supreme

travis scott said:


> Was not talking about you, genius




Maybe be more clear next time, it's not that hard.


----------



## Nucklehead Supreme

arttk said:


> Well Flames have no problem doing it and it’s not like the guys that traded for had NTC blocking them from going to us. We could’ve target Hamonic instead of Gubranson. Benning was offered Vatanen or Sbisa and he chose Sbisa. We could’ve kept Forsling instead of acquiring a guy that couldn’t skate. Fact is, whatever the previous management left behind should not make it excusable for Benning to mess up every single D move. Yeah it’s not easy, that’s why he gets paid.
> 
> Top paring guys takes time but usually they don’t have a stagnant year especially in junior.




Flames have given up multiple high picks to get those players, including multiple 1st's if Benning did that he'd be run out of town.

So you would have been fine with giving up a top 10 1st rounder for Hamonic?

Yah the Forsling trade wasn't good, I won't deny that.

Benning was offered Vatanen? First I have heard of this do you have any proof to back that claim?

Look at Olli's stats and how he has played this year in the Finish league and tell me more about stagnation.....


----------



## Nucklehead Supreme

delete


----------



## Nucklehead Supreme

Nucklehead Supreme said:


> Flames have given up multiple high picks to get those players, including multiple 1st's if Benning did that he'd be run out of town.
> 
> So you would have been fine with giving up a top 10 1st rounder for Hamonic?
> 
> Yah the Forsling trade wasn't good, I won't deny that. Though he hasn't done anything particularly amazing since we traded him
> 
> Benning was offered Vatanen? First I have heard of this do you have any proof to back that claim?
> 
> Look at Olli's stats and how he has played this year in the Finish league and tell me more about stagnation.....


----------



## elitepete

Nucklehead Supreme said:


> Maybe be more clear next time, it's not that hard.



Maybe don’t assume I’m talking about you.


----------



## arttk

Nucklehead Supreme said:


> Flames have given up multiple high picks to get those players, including multiple 1st's if Benning did that he'd be run out of town.
> 
> So you would have been fine with giving up a top 10 1st rounder for Hamonic?
> 
> Yah the Forsling trade wasn't good, I won't deny that.
> 
> Benning was offered Vatanen? First I have heard of this do you have any proof to back that claim?
> 
> Look at Olli's stats and how he has played this year in the Finish league and tell me more about stagnation.....



We gave up McCann(1st rounder), 2nd rounder, 3rd rounds, 4th rounder, 5th rounder, Forsling, Kesler and we still have a shit D. It’s inexcusable how bad we have done when it comes to this.

Botch reported that Benning was offered a choice of Vatanen or Sbisa and he thought Sbisa was the better choice.


----------



## Nucklehead Supreme

arttk said:


> We gave up McCann(1st rounder), 2nd rounder, 3rd rounds, 4th rounder, 5th rounder, Forsling, Kesler and we still have a **** D. It’s inexcusable how bad we have done when it comes to this.
> 
> Botch reported that Benning was offered a choice of Vatanen or Sbisa and he thought Sbisa was the better choice.





arttk said:


> We gave up McCann(1st rounder), 2nd rounder, 3rd rounds, 4th rounder, 5th rounder, Forsling, Kesler and we still have a **** D. It’s inexcusable how bad we have done when it comes to this.
> 
> Botch reported that Benning was offered a choice of Vatanen or Sbisa and he thought Sbisa was the better choice.




Fair enough.


----------



## lawrence

arttk said:


> Botch reported that Benning was offered a choice of Vatanen or Sbisa and he thought Sbisa was the better choice.




Vatanen was never on the table. no bloody way. Botch is also a troll. 



arttk said:


> We gave up McCann(1st rounder)




McCann was a 1st round pick. but not a "first rounder" his value at the time was not a 1st round pick anymore as you will find it hard for any gm to give up a 1st rounder in 2016 for him.


----------



## blindpass

Aqualung said:


> Christ guys stay on topic. Such a pain to said through pages of off topic banter about Benning and bulking.
> 
> Just make another thread if you want to discuss that. Otherwise let’s just talk about Juolevi.



Apparently this was too much to ask.

The Canuck forum would be a better place to debate Benning.


----------



## arttk

lawrence said:


> Vatanen was never on the table. no bloody way. Botch is also a troll.
> 
> 
> 
> McCann was a 1st round pick. but not a "first rounder" his value at the time was not a 1st round pick anymore as you will find it hard for any gm to give up a 1st rounder in 2016 for him.



Like it or not, Botch has more sources than you and he actually gets to talk to Benning and the guys in the org and gets info from them. 

Point is we traded pretty much a whole draft away and look what we have, nothing but crap.


----------



## lawrence

arttk said:


> Wrist injury, like I said, you would want to see progress barring injury.
> Was Juolevi injured to the point that affects his play?




Olli Juolevi was part of a team in 2016 that had the best line in OHL history. It was pretty obvious that the following season, that line will no longer be there. Tkachuk made the Flames officially Tkachuk was not returning to London.

Heading into the season, London will have their work cut out for them. Yet Olli Juolevi, retained the same amount of points while losing all that fire power is not a sign of regression.

in 2016 Juolevi had points on 10% of all of Londons goals. 
in 2017 Juolevi had points on 14% of all of Londons goals.
Juolevi was also clearly Londons best skater on the ice during the 2017 playoff run, a top 10 offensive dman in the finnish leauge right now, and a very good wjc.

Regressed? Only someone who hates Vancouver with a deep passion will say this. 

regressed my ass. 

so sit down and be quiet arttk.


----------



## lawrence

arttk said:


> Like it or not,* Botch has more sources than you* and he actually gets to talk to Benning and the guys in the org and gets info from them.
> 
> Point is we traded pretty much a whole draft away and look what we have, nothing but crap.




he doesn't. Just ask the Canucks forum. I told the entire place there is no chance we will be selecting Vilardi, Mittelstady or Glass with a 5th pick back in March of 2017.



arttk said:


> Top paring guys takes time but usually they don’t have a stagnant year especially in junior.




ok ok ok man, you win, he regressed. He's terrible, he's a bust. He will never make the NHL. He's another mistake by benning.

happy? now can you please leave?




Nucklehead Supreme said:


> Benning was offered Vatanen? First I have heard of this do you have any proof to back that claim?




1st I've heard of this too. when someone hates the team as much as he does, he will make things up like many others do here.


----------



## arttk

lawrence said:


> he doesn't. Just ask the Canucks forum. I told the entire place there is no chance we will be selecting Vilardi, Mittelstady or Glass with a 5th pick back in March of 2017.
> 
> 
> 
> ok ok ok man, you win, he regressed. He's terrible, he's a bust. He will never make the NHL. He's another mistake by benning.
> 
> happy? now can you please leave?



You alright? You don’t seem to take opinions well. Do you need a happy place where we all hold hands and tell each other everything is great? 

Botch has been around for awhile now and be has been breaking stuff consistently when it comes to the Nucks, don’t like it? Deal with it. 

If you can actually read, i’ve said he regressed in his D+1 season, not this season. If you want to look at just points total and playoff performance, you can do that if it makes you sleep better at night. By all accounts he wasn’t playing like a dominant player and this is a fair expectation for a guy that is drafted that high. He is played the same way he did in the playoffs for the whole season, nobody would be worried. Problem is he didn’t and top players don’t just cherry pick time to be good, they are good all the damn time. If he doesn’t have that ability to keep his play up high all the time, then he won’t be a top paring guy in the NHL. 

Now do you want to go back to reddit and upvote yourself and make your heart feel warm and fuzzy?


----------



## lawrence

arttk said:


> Now do you want to go back to reddit and upvote yourself and make your heart feel warm and fuzzy?



[mod]

to be honest if we land the 2nd or 3rd pick, I will be happy for who the Canucks will pick based on the current list.



arttk said:


> If you want to look at just points total and playoff performance, you can do that if it makes you sleep better at night.







arttk said:


> *By all accounts* he wasn’t playing like a dominant player and this is a fair expectation for a guy that is drafted that high.




who are they? members on hfboards.com? why don't try to visit the Juolevi thread during the 2017 playoffs and see what was said about him.



arttk said:


> He is played the same way he did in the playoffs for the whole season



wtf is this. by all accounts canucks fans able to catch the London run, he did not play the same way. but sure continue making things up.



arttk said:


> Problem is he didn’t and top players don’t just cherry pick time to be good,








arttk said:


> *Botch has been around for awhile now and be has been breaking stuff consistently when it comes to the Nucks, *don’t like it? Deal with it.



your kidding right? [mod] Cause Botchford is worse then Tony Ghallanger and he has no sources.


----------



## ProstheticConscience

blindpass said:


> Apparently this was too much to ask.
> 
> The Canuck forum would be a better place to debate Benning.



But there aren't nearly enough threads in there for that!


----------



## arttk

lawrence said:


> [mod]
> 
> to be honest if we land the 2nd or 3rd pick, I will be happy for who the Canucks will pick based on the current list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who are they? members on hfboards.com? why don't try to visit the Juolevi thread during the 2017 playoffs and see what was said about him.
> 
> 
> wtf is this. by all accounts canucks fans able to catch the London run, he did not play the same way. but sure continue making things up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your kidding right? LOL. [mod] Cause Botchford is worse then Tony Ghallanger and he has no sources.



[mod]

Just go back on the thread and the most often comment is oh he’s playing well but nothing special, he’s working on other part of his game, but just somehow not working on dominating when he is on the ice. Yeah his playoffs was good but he definitely wasn’t during the regular season.

Why would I lie about Botch, he has been improving over the years, maybe if you are not so thick headed and can get through your preconceived notions of how he is as a journalist. 

Tony G is pretty much retired and he had never made a career around breaking news, all he does over the years is to rip of management, all management. Not sure why you would compare Botch with Tony other than trying to show off oh hey you know who the journalists are in this town.


----------



## lawrence

arttk said:


> Why would I lie about Botch,




Anyone that lives in the Vancouver and follow the Canucks know's he a dud. [mod] He makes things up, he's never gotten anything right and all he does is attack the team while doing it in a smartass fashion. Even Canuck fans that hate the Canucks dont' agree with him. 

do you ever see him when he's asking questions when its opened to the media? dude looks like a Pejorative Slur. 

actually I'm gonna sell him the Canucks mid term list. wonder how much he will pay me for it.


----------



## arttk

lawrence said:


> Anyone that lives in the Vancouver and follow the Canucks know's he a dud. [mod] He makes things up, he's never gotten anything right and all he does is attack the team while doing it in a smartass fashion. Even Canuck fans that hate the Canucks dont' agree with him.
> 
> do you ever see him when he's asking questions when its opened to the media? dude looks like a ******.
> 
> actually I'm gonna sell him the Canucks mid term list. wonder how much he will pay me for it.




Like I said, that was his rep when he started and he has been getting better over time. The last 2 years he has been breaking a lot more news.

And back to Juolevi, I don’t see how there is anything wrong with being realistic about him. He had a disappointing season last year and to top it off he came into camp cocky and played like crap amongst all the other prospects. His performance in the Finnish league is good but like I said, top paring guys usually shine pretty early and clearly. When was the last top paring guy that flubbed their prospect camps?


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

arttk said:


> Like I said, that was his rep when he started and he has been getting better over time. The last 2 years he has been breaking a lot more news.
> 
> And back to Juolevi, I don’t see how there is anything wrong with being realistic about him. He had a disappointing season last year and to top it off he came into camp cocky and played like crap amongst all the other prospects. His performance in the Finnish league is good but like I said, top paring guys usually shine pretty early and clearly. When was the last top paring guy that flubbed their prospect camps?




I'm a Canuck fan and agree with most of what you say, there no mistaking that Juolevi had a fairly disappointing regular season in his D+1 year. Nothing wrong with saying it like it is, had a mediocre regular season, had a great playoffs then had a really disappointing prospect camp. Since then he's been quite good in the Finish league and was quite good at the WJC's.

However it's kind of hard to argue the point about the last top pairing guy that flubbed at prospect camp unless you follow every teams prospect camps and have the memory of an elephant. That's not really information readily available. There are plenty of high end highly drafted defenseman that had fairly disappointing first few years to their career before developing into solid top pairing defenseman. I think Juolevi is borderline trending to be a top pairing defenseman but most likely a good top 4 guy but some guys just develop at a slower pace.


----------



## arttk

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> I'm a Canuck fan and agree with most of what you say, there no mistaking that Juolevi had a fairly disappointing regular season in his D+1 year. Nothing wrong with saying it like it is, had a mediocre regular season, had a great playoffs then had a really disappointing prospect camp. Since then he's been quite good in the Finish league and was quite good at the WJC's.
> 
> However it's kind of hard to argue the point about the last top pairing guy that flubbed at prospect camp unless you follow every teams prospect camps and have the memory of an elephant. That's not really information readily available. There are plenty of high end highly drafted defenseman that had fairly disappointing first few years to their career before developing into solid top pairing defenseman. I think Juolevi is borderline trending to be a top pairing defenseman but most likely a good top 4 guy but some guys just develop at a slower pace.



Yeah I hope he can come to camp next season and blow everyone away. Would be great if he can surprise us like Petterson with a slap shot that came out of nowhere. Hard to be a PPQB without a killer shot that gets the defense to commit to you.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

arttk said:


> Yeah I hope he can come to camp next season and blow everyone away. Would be great if he can surprise us like Petterson with a slap shot that came out of nowhere. Hard to be a PPQB without a killer shot that gets the defense to commit to you.




Would be nice but doesn't seem like his game though. He does seem to do a pretty fine job of running a pp from the left side of the ice though. He's got that deadly wrister or the ability to make that no look cross ice feed, which happens to fit right into Pettersson's one timer wheelhouse.


----------



## arttk

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> Would be nice but doesn't seem like his game though. He does seem to do a pretty fine job of running a pp from the left side of the ice though. He's got that deadly wrister or the ability to make that no look cross ice feed, which happens to fit right into Pettersson's one timer wheelhouse.



If he can one time it as well as Brock and Peterson, man our PP would be hell for the opposition for years to come.


----------



## Offre Hostile

arttk said:


> Yeah I hope he can come to camp next season and blow everyone away. Would be great if he can surprise us like Petterson with a slap shot that came out of nowhere. Hard to be a PPQB without a killer shot that gets the defense to commit to you.




He doesn't have any kind of a booming slapshot and probably never will but he has been able to consistently get the puck to the net this year. I don't really think you need to have a killer shot to play PPQB, it's a very nice bonus, but the hockey sense and passing ability are the most important qualities, both of which Juolevi has.


----------



## stampedingviking

arttk said:


> Well Flames have no problem doing it and it’s not like the guys that traded for had NTC blocking them from going to us. We could’ve target Hamonic instead of Gubranson. Benning was offered Vatanen or Sbisa and he chose Sbisa. We could’ve kept Forsling instead of acquiring a guy that couldn’t skate. Fact is, whatever the previous management left behind should not make it excusable for Benning to mess up every single D move. Yeah it’s not easy, that’s why he gets paid.
> 
> Top paring guys takes time but usually they don’t have a stagnant year especially in junior.



Forsling who is now in the AHL? That would have been great!


----------



## stampedingviking

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> Would be nice but doesn't seem like his game though. He does seem to do a pretty fine job of running a pp from the left side of the ice though. He's got that deadly wrister or the ability to make that no look cross ice feed, which happens to fit right into Pettersson's one timer wheelhouse.



Maybe he could teach Edler to pass to a player with a great shot.


----------



## sting101

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> Would be nice but doesn't seem like his game though. He does seem to do a pretty fine job of running a pp from the left side of the ice though. He's got that deadly wrister or the ability to make that no look cross ice feed, which happens to fit right into Pettersson's one timer wheelhouse.



well said.
Getting the shot through and being accurate with no look passes are far more important than having someone back there trying to pound pucks through a wall even if he shoots 100mph


----------



## farshi

stampedingviking said:


> Forsling who is now in the AHL? That would have been great!



He's 21 and has played 79 NHL games already.


----------



## arttk

stampedingviking said:


> Forsling who is now in the AHL? That would have been great!



How is he doing compared to Clendenning? 



stampedingviking said:


> Maybe he could teach Edler to pass to a player with a great shot.



No arguments there. Edler has lost his shot as well so it's pretty crucial for Juolevi to develop into a PPQB for us. It seems like we have 2 booming shots on the left and right side so I guess we don't need Juolevi to have a booming one timer as well, even though it would be really good if he develops one. Having 3 potential killer one timers on the PP will make it hard to defend against.


----------



## Krnuckfan

Scratched in back to back games. Playing like the bust he is. Cute how people got excited over him having a decent world juniors.


----------



## Lawzy

arttk said:


> How is he doing compared to Clendenning?
> 
> 
> No arguments there. Edler has lost his shot as well so it's pretty crucial for Juolevi to develop into a PPQB for us. It seems like we have 2 booming shots on the left and right side so I guess we don't need Juolevi to have a booming one timer as well, even though it would be really good if he develops one. Having 3 potential killer one timers on the PP will make it hard to defend against.




I'm not convince Edler ever had a shot. Even during his prime he was behind both Ehrhoff and Salo in terms of point presence. The biggest thing I miss from Edler was his physical presence. That back injury really changed him.



Krnuckfan said:


> Scratched in back to back games. Playing like the bust he is. Cute how people got excited over him having a decent world juniors.




I'll never understand Canuck fans pessimism. Juolevi is *19*. Step down from the ledge.


----------



## arttk

Lawzy said:


> I'm not convince Edler ever had a shot. Even during his prime he was behind both Ehrhoff and Salo in terms of point presence. The biggest thing I miss from Edler was his physical presence. That back injury really changed him.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll never understand Canuck fans pessimism. Juolevi is *19*. Step down from the ledge.



Edler had a great shot and physical presence before his back injury. Ever since then, it has been getting worse. 
Of course it's not as good if you compare it with Erhoff and Salo.


----------



## Lawzy

arttk said:


> Edler had a great shot and physical presence before his back injury. Ever since then, it has been getting worse.
> Of course it's not as good if you compare it with Erhoff and Salo.




Yeah, I suppose I'm being a bit unfair. I still don't agree that his shot was great. It was good though.

Part of the reason why Ehrhoff's shot was so impressive was his ability to get it on net. Edler on the other hand, that's probably his shot's biggest weakness.


----------



## Krnuckfan

Lawzy said:


> I'm not convince Edler ever had a shot. Even during his prime he was behind both Ehrhoff and Salo in terms of point presence. The biggest thing I miss from Edler was his physical presence. That back injury really changed him.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll never understand Canuck fans pessimism. Juolevi is *19*. Step down from the ledge.




I don't care how old he is. I care how he is developing. Back to back years of disappointing development for a 5th overall pick isn't cutting it


----------



## arttk

Lawzy said:


> Yeah, I suppose I'm being a bit unfair. I still don't agree that his shot was great. It was good though.
> 
> Part of the reason why Ehrhoff's shot was so impressive was his ability to get it on net. Edler on the other hand, that's probably his shot's biggest weakness.



You have to remember one of Erhoff's biggest criticism when he played for the Sharks was him missing the net all the time. 

When Erhoff was on our team, having that deadly one timer was a reason why our PP was so good. We had Erhoff, Salo and Kesler who could one time it at any moment and that's why I hope Juolevi will develop some kind of one timer. Having 3 guys that can one shot it would open up so much space.


----------



## Lawzy

arttk said:


> You have to remember one of Erhoff's biggest criticism when he played for the Sharks was him missing the net all the time.
> 
> When Erhoff was on our team, having that deadly one timer was a reason why our PP was so good. We had Erhoff, Salo and Kesler who could one time it at any moment and that's why I hope Juolevi will develop some kind of one timer. Having 3 guys that can one shot it would open up so much space.




Agreed. If Juolevi can develop his one timer, we suddenly have three excellent options for shots on PP1 (Pettersson, Boeser, Juolevi).



Krnuckfan said:


> I don't care how old he is. I care how he is developing. Back to back years of disappointing development for a 5th overall pick isn't cutting it




A 19 year old putting up 0.65PPG in Liiga as a defenseman is disappointing? Not to mention he's coming off a great showing at WJC. Two scratches doesn't change that.


----------



## stampedingviking

Krnuckfan said:


> Scratched in back to back games. Playing like the bust he is. Cute how people got excited over him having a decent world juniors.



He's been playing well this season so, no, not a bust despite how much you'd like him to be.


----------



## stampedingviking

Krnuckfan said:


> I don't care how old he is. I care how he is developing. Back to back years of disappointing development for a 5th overall pick isn't cutting it



He hasn't had back-to-back disappointing years, got that wrong as well.


----------



## Krnuckfan

stampedingviking said:


> He hasn't had back-to-back disappointing years, got that wrong as well.




Seems like you have incredibly low standards for what a top 5 draft pick's development should look like. I'm betting you were making all sorts of excuses for virtanen too when he was developing terribly.


----------



## lawrence

Krnuckfan said:


> Scratched in back to back games. Playing like the bust he is. Cute how people got excited over him having a decent world juniors.




he has the flu.......

he's a bust. He will not make the NHL.

good enough for ya? too slow too dumb, to play at the NHL

Benning pissed away another 5th pick.

happy?


----------



## Dump Itch

lawrence said:


> he has the flu.......
> 
> he's a bust. He will not make the NHL.
> 
> good enough for ya? too slow too dumb, to play at the NHL
> 
> Benning pissed away another 5th pick.
> 
> happy?




Didn't Pettersson play the WJC with the flu? Why can't Juolevi play normal games with the flu?


----------



## lawrence

Dump Itch said:


> Didn't Pettersson play the WJC with the flu? Why can't Juolevi play normal games with the flu?




some players play with it and some don't. for example some players may sit out with a flu, that said if they were on the national team for a short tournament living their dream unlikely a flu will stop them, but Pettersson is a star, he can play at a high level with the Flu, Juolevi who is a bust as said by the xperts here, not so much.


----------



## Hokinaittii

Dump Itch said:


> Didn't Pettersson play the WJC with the flu? Why can't Juolevi play normal games with the flu?



There is a difference of having runny nose like Pettersson had in WJC and actually having flu with fever. No player is going to play with fever since it's a health risk.

And no, I don't know whether Juolevi actually has fever but I would imagine that being the case since he isn't playing. I don't see no other reason why his team which is currently slumping hard wouldn't dress one of their best players.


----------



## lawrence

Hokinaittii said:


> There is a difference of having runny nose like Pettersson had in WJC and actually having flu with fever. No player is going to play with fever since it's a health risk.
> 
> And no, I don't know whether Juolevi actually has fever but I would imagine that being the case since he isn't playing. I don't see no other reason why his team which is currently slumping hard wouldn't dress one of their best players.





do you follow that league? any info will be great, cause now I'm confused. I first heard he had the flu, now he's a healthy scratch, i'm confused. OH well he's done. His career is done. DONE.


----------



## Vaslof

Hokinaittii said:


> There is a difference of having runny nose like Pettersson had in WJC and actually having flu with fever. No player is going to play with fever since it's a health risk.
> 
> And no, I don't know whether Juolevi actually has fever but I would imagine that being the case since he isn't playing. I don't see no other reason why his team which is currently slumping hard wouldn't dress one of their best players.




It's a little strange perhaps, but he is only 4th or 5th best D in the team and he was benched after a disastrous 7-1 loss. For the last two games before the disaster game, he was in the line-up as the 7th D. Coaches clearly not happy with him at the moment.


----------



## Krnuckfan

He doesn't have the flu. Add that on to the list of yet another excuse given for juolevis terrible post draft development.


----------



## Breakers

Krnuckfan said:


> He doesn't have the flu. Add that on to the list of yet another excuse given for juolevis terrible post draft development.




Yeah clearly he didn't respond in practice, 
and coaches were like take another one off.


----------



## Esko6

Krnuckfan said:


> He doesn't have the flu. Add that on to the list of yet another excuse given for juolevis terrible post draft development.




Yep, does not look too good for him. Just so lost in the defensive end lately. Dunno if he is injured or just that inconsistent.


----------



## M2Beezy

Still cant believe how terrible a pick this was. Would EASY drop out of the 1st in a 2016 redraft

And to think he went 5th only a year and a half ago


----------



## CherryToke

lawrence said:


> he has the flu.......




How do you know he has the flu? Source?


----------



## lawrence

Tryampled said:


> How do you know he has the flu? Source?




post have since been edited. I honestly though he had the flu when he was scratched the 1st time.


*http://hfboards.mandatory.com/members/etteduag-ot-reseob.228721/*


----------



## Siludin

Juolevi getting the Ho Sang treatment on HFBoards after two scratches in Finland


----------



## Garl

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> Still cant believe how terrible a pick this was. Would EASY drop out of the 1st in a 2016 redraft
> 
> And to think he went 5th only a year and a half ago



Dude, he has 17p in 26 games in Liiga. That would have been good even for a forward prospect.


----------



## canucks20

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> Still cant believe how terrible a pick this was. Would EASY drop out of the 1st in a 2016 redraft
> 
> And to think he went 5th only a year and a half ago




Just stop. There is no way he falls out of the first round. Please just stop


----------



## FinPanda

My friends in Turku can't understand why they scratch him. He has been bad lately but still. TPS defense isn't that good.


----------



## Son of Petter

Why do you even bother posting in this thread trashing OJ over and over. Everyone knows your stance dude. Please just stop. 



Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> Still cant believe how terrible a pick this was. Would EASY drop out of the 1st in a 2016 redraft
> 
> And to think he went 5th only a year and a half ago


----------



## Offre Hostile

FinPanda said:


> My friends in Turku can't understand why they scratch him. He has been bad lately but still. TPS defense isn't that good.




I really don't know either, even on bad nights he's light years above Forsström or Berger. His defensive game has been off but it still doesn't make sense to me why they're scratching him.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

Fault and Fracture said:


> I really don't know either, even on bad nights he's light years above Forsström or Berger. His defensive game has been off but it still doesn't make sense to me why they're scratching him.




Probably to send a message. If you know a player can be better but is making errors it's probably due to lack of effort. Coach could just want to let Juolevi know he expects more out of him if he is struggling a bit.

Did you watch him these last few games? Curious to know what you mean when you say his defensive game has struggled. Getting beat one on one, bad pinches, being out of position? Just curious


----------



## Offre Hostile

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> Probably to send a message. If you know a player can be better but is making errors it's probably due to lack of effort. Coach could just want to let Juolevi know he expects more out of him if he is struggling a bit.
> 
> Did you watch him these last few games? Curious to know what you mean when you say his defensive game has struggled. Getting beat one on one, bad pinches, being out of position? Just curious




I haven't seen every game but he seems kinda... lost. I sometimes get flashbacks from his play in the Canucks camp last fall. It's like his mind is not there. As for scratching him, I get that you might want to send a message to him but his team is battling for playoffs home ice advantage, maybe just give him less ice time instead, rather than play guys who are much worse than him.


----------



## canuckfan75

Any one have any ideas as to what is going on with in Finland


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

canuckfan75 said:


> Any one have any ideas as to what is going on with in Finland



The team sucks right now.


----------



## Ippenator

canuckfan75 said:


> Any one have any ideas as to what is going on with in Finland



I agree with the others, that he hasn’t been as bad as being the healthy scratch would make you think. But sure, his level of play has gone worse than it was for the start of the season. He seems like really not being in the game completely. I wonder if there is again some problems with his attitude?

He has shown in the past very bad signs of being a whiny primadonna, and honestly I have to say that many interviews that I saw him in during the last two years just seriously made me cringe. He seemed so entitled and full of himself, that it was easy to see that he would get into trouble with some coaches.

Although I have to emphasize that this is now purely my own speculation, and I have no real knowledge of what is going on with him and TPS at the moment. Just also wondering that how really he wouldn’t fit into the team even with the way he has been playing lately. The team has clearly worse defencemen than him. In my opinion he should be in the 2nd or 3rd pair at the moment, unless there is some serious attitude problem.


----------



## rune74

This should answer the questions before we go off the deep end.




More from Salo: "He has had a little tougher time after the World Junior's. We decided to scratch him, *he should be back in the lineup tomorrow.*"


----------



## eviohh26

rune74 said:


> This should answer the questions before we go off the deep end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More from Salo: "He has had a little tougher time after the World Junior's. We decided to scratch him, *he should be back in the lineup tomorrow.*"




This kid is going to hate his life when he gets to Vancouver. Our fans suck. Because of his draft position he will always be compared to Tkachuk. Every mistake he makes early on i feel our fan base is going to ride him hard. I wish well for him. I still think he has all the tools . Just needs some time.


----------



## lawrence

Ippenator said:


> He has shown in the past very bad signs of being a whiny primadonna, and honestly I have to say that many interviews




news to me. the interviews from what we've seen of him in Vancouver is the opposite from what your describing. Maybe he hates the Finnish leauge? who knows.


----------



## Son of Petter

Sad but true. 



eviohh26 said:


> This kid is going to hate his life when he gets to Vancouver. Our fans suck. Because of his draft position he will always be compared to Tkachuk. Every mistake he makes early on i feel our fan base is going to ride him hard. I wish well for him. I still think he has all the tools . Just needs some time.


----------



## Ippenator

lawrence said:


> news to me. the interviews from what we've seen of him in Vancouver is the opposite from what your describing. Maybe he hates the Finnish leauge? who knows.



I’m not talking about any interviews from the time that he has played in Liiga, which has been only this season, and he has been OK in those interviews. But those really bad ones were from the different previous season’s when he was playing for the Finnish national junior’s teams.

Oh, and he was really especially terrible as the captain of the Finnish 2016-2017 WJC team, which scandalously had to play in the relegation round. He practically started a riot against the coach in the middle of the tournament and the coach was after all sacked in the middle of the tournament. The way how he commented things then was also like a whiny spoiled brat. The coach was wrong for the team generally, but you still don’t do what he did in the middle of the tournament. He was like a quitter before all the games had been even played. Well, this also as an additional example. Not the only reason why I’m talking about his attitude problems from the past.


----------



## lawrence

Ippenator said:


> I’m not talking about any interviews from the time that he has played in Liiga, which has been only this season, and he has been OK in those interviews. But those really bad ones were from the different previous season’s when he was playing for the Finnish national junior’s teams.




future captain material.


----------



## Ippenator

lawrence said:


> future captain material.



Ironically I had just added something about how horribly things went when he was the Finnish WJC captain in 2016-2017.


----------



## M2Beezy

eviohh26 said:


> This kid is going to hate his life when he gets to Vancouver. Our fans suck. Because of his draft position he will always be compared to Tkachuk. Every mistake he makes early on i feel our fan base is going to ride him hard. I wish well for him. I still think he has all the tools . Just needs some time.



Or he can just suck it up and try harder. There is that. Ya know the honest hard working approach


----------



## JetsFan815

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> Still cant believe how terrible a pick this was. Would EASY drop out of the 1st in a 2016 redraft
> 
> And to think he went 5th only a year and a half ago




Classic Mogilny To Bure


----------



## stampedingviking

eviohh26 said:


> This kid is going to hate his life when he gets to Vancouver. Our fans suck. Because of his draft position he will always be compared to Tkachuk. *Every mistake he makes early on i feel our fan base is going to ride him hard*. I wish well for him. I still think he has all the tools . Just needs some time.



It'll be hell, they'll start before he's even played a game, just look at HFCanucks, the hate is real.


----------



## stampedingviking

Ippenator said:


> I’m not talking about any interviews from the time that he has played in Liiga, which has been only this season, and he has been OK in those interviews. But those really bad ones were from the different previous season’s when he was playing for the Finnish national junior’s teams.
> 
> Oh, and he was really especially terrible as the captain of the Finnish 2016-2017 WJC team, which scandalously had to play in the relegation round. He practically started a riot against the coach in the middle of the tournament and the coach was after all sacked in the middle of the tournament. The way how he commented things then was also like a whiny spoiled brat. The coach was wrong for the team generally, but you still don’t do what he did in the middle of the tournament. He was like a quitter before all the games had been even played. Well, this also as an additional example. Not the only reason why I’m talking about his attitude problems from the past.



Perhaps the players asked him to represent them, you know, being captain and all?

Couldn't be that, though, just has to be one bad player with attitude.


----------



## terrible dee

stampedingviking said:


> It'll be hell, they'll start before he's even played a game, just look at HFCanucks, the hate is real.




Yep,

We hate him alright

That's news?


----------



## terrible dee

lawrence said:


> news to me. the interviews from what we've seen of him in Vancouver is the opposite from what your describing. Maybe he hates the Finnish leauge? who knows.




Again, this is not news.

When he was drafted Benning said he liked his cockiness, that Joulevi has an attitude is a fact and not worth debating, 

If you don't know about it, you haven't looked into it

Do you want proof?

Don't ask us, about 5 seconds of Googling will tell you all you need to know.


----------



## Piestany88

rune74 said:


> This should answer the questions before we go off the deep end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More from Salo: "He has had a little tougher time after the World Junior's. We decided to scratch him, *he should be back in the lineup tomorrow.*"




Poor Salo and the media dude , should be affected not effected


----------



## terrible dee

Fault and Fracture said:


> I haven't seen every game but he seems kinda... lost. I sometimes get flashbacks from his play in the Canucks camp last fall. It's like his mind is not there. As for scratching him, I get that you might want to send a message to him but his team is battling for playoffs home ice advantage, maybe just give him less ice time instead, rather than play guys who are much worse than him.[/QUOTE




If he's doing what he did last fall then, all kidding aside, this is NOT GOOD

Last fall he was turn styled by career minor leaguers and training camp warm bodies, in all honesty, it was embarrassing. He didn't belong in camp. If not for his draft pedigree, he would have been sent home imeadietly.

If that's happening now, I would be very concerned.

If his parents are at all interested in this great opportunity life has afforded him at so young an age, I would respectfully suggest a "boot in the Netherlands" before it's too late.

Playing that way at draft + 2 1/2?

He can't afford + 3​


----------



## terrible dee

Hokinaittii said:


> There is a difference of having runny nose like Pettersson had in WJC and actually having flu with fever. No player is going to play with fever since it's a health risk.
> 
> And no, I don't know whether Juolevi actually has fever but I would imagine that being the case since he isn't playing. I don't see no other reason why his team which is currently slumping hard wouldn't dress one of their best players.




So you don't actually know anything about the symptoms of either, but that's what you'll use as an excuse?


----------



## terrible dee

Fault and Fracture said:


> True. It makes Juolevi seem much worse than he actually is. I mean, some are even proclaiming him as a bust already which is crazy. He has all the qualities to develop into a top-pairing guy, we don't know if he'll ever get there but the potential is absolutely there. Dude's hockey IQ is off the charts and he has the puck handling abilities to support it, adequate skater too although he won't wow you with that. Just needs to get a bit tougher defensively, he's way too soft without the puck. He seems to need to take more time adjusting to the NHL speed as well but I think he will figure it out some day. To me it looks like he got a bit too comfortable in a dominating OHL team and just wasn't mentally ready for the camp last fall (not that he is by any means a complete player physically either). No need to go nuts over his development at this point.




Hockey I.Q off the charts?

What? Was he doing advanced calculations based on the number of sticks on the opposition bench while ECHL's were leaving him flat-footed at TC this year?

Cool, let's get him doing advanced stats or something, put that I.Q to work somewhere where it can really shine,


----------



## Offre Hostile

terrible dee said:


> If he's doing what he did last fall then, all kidding aside, this is NOT GOOD
> 
> Last fall he was turn styled by career minor leaguers and training camp warm bodies, in all honesty, it was embarrassing. He didn't belong in camp. If not for his draft pedigree, he would have been sent home imeadietly.
> 
> If that's happening now, I would be very concerned.
> 
> If his parents are at all interested in this great opportunity life has afforded him at so young an age, I would respectfully suggest a "boot in the Netherlands" before it's too late.
> 
> Playing that way at draft + 2 1/2?
> 
> He can't afford + 3




Like Salo said, our other WJC player (Nurmi) has suffered from the same issues since coming back. Traveling to another continent and then straight back to action in Liiga isn't easy but Juolevi does indeed need to pick it up. I think the issues he had at the training camp were more about that he hadn't adjusted his mindset to NHL level play because of how easy it had been in the juniors for him. In other words, he simply wasn't mentally ready. We'll see how he's gonna be in the next camp but I'm sure he learned his lesson from that experience.


----------



## Offre Hostile

terrible dee said:


> Hockey I.Q off the charts?
> 
> What? Was he doing advanced calculations based on the number of sticks on the opposition bench while ECHL's were leaving him flat-footed at TC this year?
> 
> Cool, let's get him doing advanced stats or something, put that I.Q to work somewhere where it can really shine,




He's shown his IQ in the juniors and in Liiga, he is absolutely fantastic at reading the game and makes good decisions out there. He has a lot of work to do to adjust to the NHL play but the talent is there.


----------



## rune74

Fault and Fracture said:


> Like Salo said, our other WJC player (Nurmi) has suffered from the same issues since coming back. Traveling to another continent and then straight back to action in Liiga isn't easy but Juolevi does indeed need to pick it up. I think the issues he had at the training camp were more about that he hadn't adjusted his mindset to NHL level play because of how easy it had been in the juniors for him. In other words, he simply wasn't mentally ready. We'll see how he's gonna be in the next camp but I'm sure he learned his lesson from that experience.




I take it you watch him regularily? Could you give us a run down on him if so? A lot better then seeing these opinions from posters who haven't.


----------



## Offre Hostile

rune74 said:


> I take it you watch him regularily? Could you give us a run down on him if so? A lot better then seeing these opinions from posters who haven't.




Yes, I'm a fan of his Liiga team so I watch him a lot. I'm no scout but here are my thoughts.

Had a bit of a slow start, a lot of safe plays and all around just meh but gradually became better as he started to gain confidence, to the point where he was one of the leading dmen in one of the best teams in the league. After the WJC, where he also became better as the the tournament went on, he's looked a bit off, just doesn't seem like his mind is 100% in the game.

As for his strengths and weaknesses, I'd say his biggest assets are his crazy good hockey sense and passing, so you got very good PMD talent in him and he can make wise and calm decisions even under pressure. Good wrist shot too and is able to get it through with a good percentage. Not the fastest or flashiest skater, but very smooth and it doesn't hinder his offensive game. I think the biggest knock on him is that he's soft defensively, like really soft and I see his lack of urgency as his biggest challenge in transitioning to the NHL.


----------



## eviohh26

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> Or he can just suck it up and try harder. There is that. Ya know the honest hard working approach



Oh he isn't trying? Do you honestly read what you type?


----------



## Breakers

Fault and Fracture said:


> Had a bit of a slow start, a lot of safe plays and all around just meh but gradually became better as he started to gain confidence, to the point where he was one of the leading dmen in one of the best teams in the league. After the WJC, where he also became better as the the tournament went on, he's looked a bit off, *just doesn't seem like his mind is 100% in the game.*




Pretty much this. ^^


----------



## Krnuckfan

stampedingviking said:


> Perhaps the players asked him to represent them, you know, being captain and all?
> 
> Couldn't be that, though, just has to be one bad player with attitude.




Excuse after excuse after excuse. If he was actually a good captain he wouldn't have done that childish bs.


----------



## lawrence

Ippenator said:


> Ironically I had just added something about how horribly things went when he was the Finnish WJC captain in 2016-2017.




Future Mark Messier award winner.


----------



## Tryamkin

Another goal for Juolevi today already. He’s now playing consistently on the top pairing.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

Tryamkin said:


> Another goal for Juolevi today already. He’s now playing consistently on the top pairing.




Isn't this his first game on the top pairing? Bit of an exaggeration to say consistently.


----------



## TeddyBare

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> Isn't this his first game on the top pairing? Bit of an exaggeration to say consistently.




Yeah I read on twitter this is the first time he has been on the top Pairing since he left for the world Juniors back in December.


----------



## Tryamkin

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> Isn't this his first game on the top pairing? Bit of an exaggeration to say consistently.



Not meaning like he’s been doing it for a while, guess I used the wrong word. He’ll be playing on the top line now.


----------



## Vaslof

He is on the top pairing because the usual guy playing there was suspended for 4 games.


----------



## M2Beezy

Vaslof said:


> He is on the top pairing because the usual guy playing there was suspended for 4 games.



So basically his team had few options. Its like when the Canucks had tons a injuries this year and the coach put Gagner on the first line and someone calling him a first liner


----------



## HockeyHistorian

I think Juolevi is just fine. I don't think Canucks fans should be too scared. Juolevi seems like a safe bet to become a top pairing defenseman or a very good top-4 guy. That's just fine with the fifth overall.


----------



## Buresflyingelbow

Hawkyknowledge said:


> It would be nice to see Juolevi get back to that record setting World Junior form where he had the most points ever for a defender his age. Also the leading his team to a OHL Championship a Memorial cup and Gold at the tournament as the top Defenseman on all 3 venues. If we go by pedigree I think he’ll do just fine!
> 
> Glad he’s a top pairing D man in a men’s league after adding all that bulk on his frame that’s never an easy task especially if you’re known for your mobility.


----------



## Monaakko

Regular season over for Juolevi, finished with 7+12=19 in 38 games.


----------



## Offre Hostile

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> So basically his team had few options. Its like when the Canucks had tons a injuries this year and the coach put Gagner on the first line and someone calling him a first liner




Juolevi is absolutely a top pairing level dman in the league when he's at his best. He lacks consistency though so the the management prefers to play the more experienced guys in there instead of him.


----------



## rune74

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> So basically his team had few options. Its like when the Canucks had tons a injuries this year and the coach put Gagner on the first line and someone calling him a first liner




This never gets old for you does it?


----------



## PG Canuck

Posted this on HFVan:



PG Canuck said:


> So, I went ahead and did this. This is since the 2007 draft, so this is through a 10 year span.
> 
> Quick notes:
> *Hamilton played 42 games in his D+2 season, but got sent back to OHL. Made NHL fully in his D+3 season.
> *Koekkoek played 29 NHL games in his D+5 season, but has only now made the NHL fulltime, this year
> *Dylan McIllrath is not listed, but played 34 games in his D+6 season, so I wouldn't really classify him as making the NHL as he has not stuck fulltime.
> *Griffen Reinhart is not listed. Has not made NHL fulltime.
> 
> 
> D+1​D+2​D+3​D+4​D+6​D+7​Aaron Ekblad (1st overall)​Ryan Murray (2nd overall)​Alex Pietrangelo (4th overall)​Haydn Fleury (7th overall)​Derrick Pouliot (8th overall)​Thomas Hickey (4th overall)​Victor Hedman (2nd overall)​Erik Gudbranson (3rd overall)​Karl Alzner (5th overall)​Keaton Ellerby (10th overall)​Slater Koekkoek* (10th overall)​Drew Doughty (2nd overall)​Morgan Reilly (5th overall)​Mathew Dumba (7th overall)​Zach Bogosian (3rd overall)​Hampus Lindholm (6th overall)​Darnell Nurse (7th overall)​Adam Larsson (3rd overall)​Oliver Ekman-Larsson (6th overall)​Dougie Hamilton* (9th overall)​Seth Jones (4th overall)​Ivan Provorov (7th overall)​Jared Cowen (9th overall)​Noah Hanifin (5th overall)​Zach Werenski (8th overall)​Jonas Brodin (10th overall)​Luke Schenn (5th overall)​Rasmus Ristolainen (8th overall)​Jacob Trouba (9th overall)​Mikhail Sergachev (9th overall)​
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]


----------



## lawrence

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> So basically his team had few options. Its like when the Canucks had tons a injuries this year and the coach put Gagner on the first line and someone calling him a first liner




Yes... your right... they had more then a few options, and the next best bet was Olli Juolevi to fill his spot, a 19 year old kid out of all the other experienced defenders that could have played in his spot, what's your point? did they have a "ton" of injuries?

you seem very very excited and happy that he is struggling, the same with Jake Virtanen you seem to have strange fettish to see certain Canuck prospects fail and drop on their faces, evidence YOU'Re NOT A CANUCK FAN.


----------



## VictoriaJetsFan

When I read about Juolevi I can't help but think Vancouver needs a lottery win maybe more than any team. Juolevi may be a top pairing guy, but he certainly does not appear to be at that Hedman/Doughty/Karlsson level. Dahlen would take so much pressure off Juolevi and make the defense so much better going forward. Buffalo has Eichel, Arizona has a ton of young talent and Ekman-Larsson, Ottawa has Karlsson, Chabot, etc.

The Canucks have Boeser and Petterson and really nothing else...well Horvat I guess.


----------



## M2Beezy

lawrence said:


> Yes... your right... they had more then a few options, and the next best bet was Olli Juolevi to fill his spot, a 19 year old kid out of all the other experienced defenders that could have played in his spot, what's your point? did they have a "ton" of injuries?
> 
> you seem very very excited and happy that he is struggling, the same with Jake Virtanen you seem to have strange fettish to see certain Canuck prospects fail and drop on their faces, evidence YOU'Re NOT A CANUCK FAN.



Your not a Canucks fan your just a paid functionary of the Benning management who yells and screams at anyone saying anything about our team is less then perfect

Go read our GDTs this year Benning boy ive cheered on Jakes moments of success like anyone else. Still should have picked Nylander tho i hope some miracle Virtanen prooves everyone in the hockey world wrong somehow and ends up being the steal of the draft. Same with Juolevi but hes projecting just terribly esp comparing to the guys wr should have picked (Tkachuck Keller Serg)

Take off the blinders pal and see reality it aint too late


----------



## stampedingviking

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> Your not a Canucks fan your just a paid functionary of the Benning management who yells and screams at anyone saying anything about our team is less then perfect
> 
> Go read our GDTs this year Benning boy ive cheered on Jakes moments of success like anyone else. Still should have picked Nylander tho i hope some miracle Virtanen prooves everyone in the hockey world wrong somehow and ends up being the steal of the draft. Same with Juolevi but hes projecting just terribly esp comparing to the guys wr should have picked (Tkachuck Keller Serg)
> 
> Take off the blinders pal and see reality it aint too late



That's total rubbish, you're one of the biggest prospect haters on HF Canucks


----------



## MardyBum

VictoriaJetsFan said:


> When I read about Juolevi I can't help but think Vancouver needs a lottery win maybe more than any team. Juolevi may be a top pairing guy, but he certainly does not appear to be at that Hedman/Doughty/Karlsson level. Dahlen would take so much pressure off Juolevi and make the defense so much better going forward. Buffalo has Eichel, Arizona has a ton of young talent and Ekman-Larsson, Ottawa has Karlsson, Chabot, etc.
> 
> The Canucks have Boeser and Petterson and really nothing else...well Horvat I guess.




He might not be a top level prospect but .5 PPG as a U-20 dman in Liiga is very good.


----------



## King In The North

Whether he'll be on the top pair or top four, Canucks need him in the pipeline. They look pretty set on the forward side...they could've been absolutely stacked but will eventually run into the need for a top D anyway.


----------



## M2Beezy

stampedingviking said:


> That's total rubbish, you're one of the biggest prospect haters on HF Canucks



Theres a difference between being a prospect hater and a critic of my team who doesnt blindly drink the koolaid and wear the foggy blinders provided by the bumbling bozo in charge of my team. Sorry to see how confusing this is for you boss


----------



## Kaako Kappo

Opened up playoff scoring for TPS


----------



## Index

delete


----------



## IComeInPeace

I believe that’s 2 goals in 3 playoff games now for Olli. 
21 points in 41 games as a rookie in Liiga.
...and still only 19 years old.


----------



## Orca Smash

VictoriaJetsFan said:


> When I read about Juolevi I can't help but think Vancouver needs a lottery win maybe more than any team. Juolevi may be a top pairing guy, but he certainly does not appear to be at that Hedman/Doughty/Karlsson level. Dahlen would take so much pressure off Juolevi and make the defense so much better going forward. Buffalo has Eichel, Arizona has a ton of young talent and Ekman-Larsson, Ottawa has Karlsson, Chabot, etc.
> 
> The Canucks have Boeser and Petterson and really nothing else...well Horvat I guess.




I agree with the first part.

We also have demko (one of the top goalie prospects), gaudette (leading ncaa scorer), and dahlen, lind look to be good possible nhl players.

But you are right we desperately need the lottery win to fix many issues, I also think we need another really good forward drafted, its to bad our management wont commit to a rebuild, they could speed this all up, but they need to keep vets and compete now for some absurd reason.

A dahlin, pettersson, boeser, horvat core would be a really good foundation.


----------



## VictoriaJetsFan

Orca Smash said:


> I agree with the first part.
> 
> We also have demko (one of the top goalie prospects), gaudette (leading ncaa scorer), and dahlen, lind look to be good possible nhl players.
> 
> But you are right we desperately need the lottery win to fix many issues, I also think we need another really good forward drafted, its to bad our management wont commit to a rebuild, they could speed this all up, but they need to keep vets and compete now for some absurd reason.
> 
> A dahlin, pettersson, boeser, horvat core would be a really good foundation.





It's funny, I am in Vancouver this weekend and the media is just dying for a better team. They are beside themselves about how this season is going and the latest comments by Henrik and Travis Green just add to the feeling of frustration. I lived here from 2006 to 2012...was all in on the glory years.

it's really shocking to contrast the two time periods.

I don't see how the Canucks aren't god awful next year as well.

They absolutely cannot throw their young prospects into this mess. Peterson, whoever they draft and Demko either go to the AHL for a year or back to junior if they draft Svechnikov. I can see a pre-mcDavid Oilers situation happening if they don't seriously shelter their youth.

If they win the lottery I really hope Dahlen is not expected to be Superman right away.


----------



## Orca Smash

VictoriaJetsFan said:


> It's funny, I am in Vancouver this weekend and the media is just dying for a better team. They are beside themselves about how this season is going and the latest comments by Henrik and Travis Green just add to the feeling of frustration. I lived here from 2006 to 2012...was all in on the glory years.
> 
> it's really shocking to contrast the two time periods.
> 
> I don't see how the Canucks aren't god awful next year as well.
> 
> They absolutely cannot throw their young prospects into this mess. Peterson, whoever they draft and Demko either go to the AHL for a year or back to junior if they draft Svechnikov. I can see a pre-mcDavid Oilers situation happening if they don't seriously shelter their youth.
> 
> If they win the lottery I really hope Dahlen is not expected to be Superman right away.




That wont be a concern with this management. If anything they will over shelter the youth. Boeser sat in the press box at the start of the season due to a lack of roster spots.

If we would be lucky enough to get dahlen he would likely make the team but it would be interesting to see how much ice time he gets. Guys like edler, tanev, stetcher, gudbranson, del zotto, would get opportunities before him. Who knows what other vets they sign in free agency.


----------



## IComeInPeace

Guys, we have Dahlen. We don’t have Dahlin. Unfortunately that one letter makes a huge difference.

VictoriaJetsFan...
You make too much sense with your post.
Unfortunately a significant segment of the Canucks fan base thinks the Oilers route of ‘play all of the young guys’ is the way to go.


----------



## Orca Smash

IComeInPeace said:


> Guys, we have Dahlen. We don’t have Dahlin. Unfortunately that one letter makes a huge difference.
> 
> VictoriaJetsFan...
> You make too much sense with your post.
> Unfortunately a significant segment of the Canucks fan base thinks the Oilers route of ‘play all of the young guys’ is the way to go.






I dont think people want to go the oilers route, they do want to see young players given opportunities when they play well and are ready instead of priority going to vets, sitting boeser at the start of the season was an example of that. Dont think you need to have any fear of the oiler route, we are currently stacked with veterans, some on very bad contracts who you wont be able to move (erikson, gudbranson, gagner) and some who simply will never waive (edler).

This is getting very off topic.


----------



## FinPanda

VictoriaJetsFan said:


> If they win the lottery I really hope *Dahlen* is not expected to be Superman right away.





Orca Smash said:


> If we would be lucky enough to get *dahlen* he would likely make the team but it would be interesting to see how much ice time he gets. Guys like edler, tanev, stetcher, gudbranson, del zotto, would get opportunities before him. Who knows what other vets they sign in free agency.



How hard it is to write Dahlin?

Dahlen is a totally different player.

--

I am happy to see Juolevi producing a bit. Not sure how he is playing defensively though.


----------



## Orca Smash

FinPanda said:


> How hard it is to write Dahlin?
> 
> Dahlen is a totally different player.
> 
> --
> 
> I am happy to see Juolevi producing a bit. Not sure how he is playing defensively though.




Yeah a mistake on my part when your talking about both of them and quoting someone who used that spelling. Thankfully I did not make that mistake in my first post.

As for defensively i dont know either, but a canucks writer who follows our prospects mentioned he had a rough second period in playoffs yesterday.


----------



## VictoriaJetsFan

Despite my misspellings....I am referring to DAHLIN..the young Swedish d-man in these posts..


----------



## DownGoesMcDavid

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> Theres a difference between being a prospect hater and a critic of my team who doesnt blindly drink the koolaid and wear the foggy blinders provided by the bumbling bozo in charge of my team. Sorry to see how confusing this is for you boss





Very confusing especially since your name is gaudette to Boeser. 

Arguably the biggest positive impact that management has been able to do. 

If youre such anti benning then why not change your name to "Eriksson to Gudrbanson"?


----------



## stampedingviking

Orca Smash said:


> I dont think people want to go the oilers route, they do want to see young players given opportunities when they play well and are ready instead of priority going to vets, sitting boeser at the start of the season was an example of that. Dont think you need to have any fear of the oiler route, we are currently stacked with veterans, some on very bad contracts who you wont be able to move (erikson, gudbranson, gagner) and some who simply will never waive (edler).
> 
> This is getting very off topic.



Boeser sat for two games at the start because he complained of tiredness in his legs, it was nothing to do with there being no roster spot.

But that doesn't suit your agenda, does it?


----------



## stampedingviking

Orca Smash said:


> Yeah a mistake on my part when your talking about both of them and quoting someone who used that spelling. Thankfully I did not make that mistake in my first post.
> 
> As for defensively i dont know either, but a canucks writer who follows our prospects mentioned he had a rough second period in playoffs yesterday.



So he had two good periods?

Typical Canucks, always highlight the bad, it's like a disease on HFC.


----------



## Kaako Kappo

stampedingviking said:


> So he had two good periods?
> 
> Typical Canucks, always highlight the bad, it's like a disease on HFC.



He's a bust. It has already been decided.


----------



## tuozzi

I feel like I have to give some credit to the guy as I was very critical of him early on to his stint with TPS. He has improved a LOT. He always had the offense but he was a serious liability in their own zone. He's still not physical (probably never will be) but his positioning and effort have improved drastically. Not sure how he'll eventually adjust to NHL, but he doesn't look like a total bust to my eye anymore.

Another PO game tomorrow. Let's see if he keeps lighting it up..


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

tuozzi said:


> I feel like I have to give some credit to the guy as I was very critical of him early on to his stint with TPS. He has improved a LOT. He always had the offense but he was a serious liability in their own zone. He's still not physical (probably never will be) but his positioning and effort have improved drastically. Not sure how he'll eventually adjust to NHL, but he doesn't look like a total bust to my eye anymore.
> 
> Another PO game tomorrow. Let's see if he keeps lighting it up..




Good to hear from people who actually watch him play. This is why I check in here, not so I can read users squabbling about how you're allowed to be a fan.


----------



## thelittlecoon

Can't tell if he looks really solid or if all the other defensemen on his team don't know how to make a breakout pass


----------



## Offre Hostile

FinPanda said:


> How hard it is to write Dahlin?
> 
> Dahlen is a totally different player.
> 
> --
> 
> I am happy to see Juolevi producing a bit. Not sure how he is playing defensively though.




Juolevi's been reliable enough defensively. The same issues as before but he's been able to utilize his strengths. We certainly aren't losing games because of him (and we shouldn't, no offense to SaiPa but their offense is not very good).


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

tuozzi said:


> I feel like I have to give some credit to the guy as I was very critical of him early on to his stint with TPS. He has improved a LOT. He always had the offense but he was a serious liability in their own zone. He's still not physical (probably never will be) but his positioning and effort have improved drastically. Not sure how he'll eventually adjust to NHL, but he doesn't look like a total bust to my eye anymore.
> 
> Another PO game tomorrow. Let's see if he keeps lighting it up..



Dont post this on the canucks board, some people will eat you alive


----------



## Siludin

If the Canucks actually land Dahlin, or draft another top defenseman, the pressure will be on for Juolevi to perform. He hasn't had anyone in his age group to push him down the Canucks' U20 depth chart on defense. Even guys like Boqvist, Bouchard, Hughes, etc are strong enough to instantly become more favourable prospects than Olli. Obviously the Canucks would prefer to draft a RD.


----------



## lawrence

28:21 TOI for Juolevi today and he finished +1. 

was on the ice for the game winner. 

hi regular partner (Tallinder) on the 1st pairing is out. Eronen drawns into the top pairing. 

his team moves on, but with Tallinder out, pressure is on Juolevi to hold the fort as their top go to defender.


----------



## The Iron Goalie

Tallinder, and Heikkanen @lawrence 

2 of Turku's top 4 Dmen.


----------



## Offre Hostile

Juolevi is forced to step up if TPS wants to avoid getting ragdolled in the next round. He needs to be the leader in the blueline, very interesting to see how he's gonna face the challenge. Tappara is light years above SaiPa in terms of offensive firepower.


----------



## Hockeyisl1fe

Fault and Fracture said:


> Juolevi is forced to step up if TPS wants to avoid getting ragdolled in the next round. He needs to be the leader in the blueline, very interesting to see how he's gonna face the challenge. Tappara is light years above SaiPa in terms of offensive firepower.



We've played very well vs Tappara this season, I think you're underestimating the chances.


----------



## Siludin

Two assists for Juolevi today. 
4 points, +2 through 7 playoff games


----------



## IComeInPeace

Seems like he’s progressing nicely.
He was forced into a much bigger role, in a big game, and finished with 2 points and a plus 2 with just under 24 minutes of ice.

The thing he has to work on the most is something that is one of the easiest things to actually improve: he needs to get stronger physically.


----------



## lawrence

Finished his game with 26:00 minutes of ice time 4 minutes more then the next player, one assist for him. Hit the post early on which would have gave his team a 2-0 lead. Team is down 3 games to zero, just a matter of time when his team gets eliminated.


----------



## WestCoastExpress94

That's a lot of icetime and responsibility for a teenager, even more so on the big ice


----------



## Krnuckfan

He also.made a soft play defensively at the very end of the game giving up the winning goal.

He still has a long way to go defensively to even be an adequate defender at the NHL level.

His biggest weakness is his low intensity and battle level. Super soft on the boards, he will get creamed in the NHL against bigger forwards


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

Krnuckfan said:


> He also.made a soft play defensively at the very end of the game giving up the winning goal.
> 
> He still has a long way to go defensively to even be an adequate defender at the NHL level.
> 
> His biggest weakness is his low intensity and battle level. Super soft on the boards, he will get creamed in the NHL against bigger forwards




You know you have an agenda against a player if you call that goal a soft play by Juolevi. The forward just went through 2 TPS forwards, Juolevi wasn't soft. You could maybe fault him for being a half second to slow to react but that's reaching as it was just a really good play by the forward.

Also I don't think you actually watch him play if you think he's soft on the boards. He's actually quite good at pinning forwards and winning puck battles.

Juolevi's main fault right now is that he's a little slow footed. He's an incredibly smooth skater but he can be a little slow to turn and accelerate.

But seriously if you watch him play 26min as a 19 year old in a men's league and completely ignore everything good he did to point out that he was on the ice for the 1 goal then you're either completely biased or you're just trolling.


----------



## JJTT

Krnuckfan said:


> He also.made a soft play defensively at the very end of the game giving up the winning goal.
> 
> He still has a long way to go defensively to even be an adequate defender at the NHL level.
> 
> His biggest weakness is his low intensity and battle level. Super soft on the boards, he will get creamed in the NHL against bigger forwards




How on earth is that goal Juolevi's fault? Kallio, Palve and Perrin made the soft plays, not Juolevi.


----------



## Nate070

Krnuckfan said:


> He also.made a soft play defensively at the very end of the game giving up the winning goal.
> 
> He still has a long way to go defensively to even be an adequate defender at the NHL level.
> 
> His biggest weakness is his low intensity and battle level. Super soft on the boards, he will get creamed in the NHL against bigger forwards



Yeah right, maybe watch the video before talking


----------



## stampedingviking

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> You know you have an agenda against a player if you call that goal a soft play by Juolevi. The forward just went through 2 TPS forwards, Juolevi wasn't soft. You could maybe fault him for being a half second to slow to react but that's reaching as it was just a really good play by the forward.
> 
> Also I don't think you actually watch him play if you think he's soft on the boards. He's actually quite good at pinning forwards and winning puck battles.
> 
> Juolevi's main fault right now is that he's a little slow footed. He's an incredibly smooth skater but he can be a little slow to turn and accelerate.
> 
> But seriously if you watch him play 26min as a 19 year old in a men's league and completely ignore everything good he did to point out that he was on the ice for the 1 goal then you're either completely biased or you're just trolling.



He's always been biased against OJ. As you can see, he always looks for the negative and never acknowledges anything positive.


----------



## Offre Hostile

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> You know you have an agenda against a player if you call that goal a soft play by Juolevi. The forward just went through 2 TPS forwards, Juolevi wasn't soft. You could maybe fault him for being a half second to slow to react but that's reaching as it was just a really good play by the forward.
> 
> Also I don't think you actually watch him play if you think he's soft on the boards. He's actually quite good at pinning forwards and winning puck battles.
> 
> Juolevi's main fault right now is that he's a little slow footed. He's an incredibly smooth skater but he can be a little slow to turn and accelerate.
> 
> But seriously if you watch him play 26min as a 19 year old in a men's league and completely ignore everything good he did to point out that he was on the ice for the 1 goal then you're either completely biased or you're just trolling.




Despite losing every game, Juolevi's been absolutely terrific in this series. Like you said, his skating lacks edge and he needs to improve on that but in this series he's just outskating pretty much everyone out there. You don't see him being gentle anymore along the boards or at the front of the net which has been another issue for him, both offensively and defensively he looks like a legit #1 guy right now. We needed him to step up his play and he answered the call.


----------



## terrible dee

Fault and Fracture said:


> Despite losing every game, Juolevi's been absolutely terrific in this series. Like you said, his skating lacks edge and he needs to improve on that but in this series he's just outskating pretty much everyone out there. You don't see him being gentle anymore along the boards or at the front of the net which has been another issue for him, both offensively and defensively he looks like a legit #1 guy right now. We needed him to step up his play and he answered the call.




You lost every game......I stopped reading after that


----------



## Hokinaittii

I wish he would have come earlier to Liiga instead staying for one extra year in OHL. I haven't excactly followed him closely but I would imagine he has improved more in his stint in Liiga than in those two years he spent in OHL.


----------



## Offre Hostile

terrible dee said:


> You lost every game......I stopped reading after that




Whatever helps you stick with your agenda.


----------



## terrible dee

King In The North said:


> Whether he'll be on the top pair or top four, Canucks need him in the pipeline. They look pretty set on the forward side...they could've been absolutely stacked but will eventually run into the need for a top D anyway.




We're NOT stacked, there's A LOT of people in denial about our prospect situation, which has SERIOUS ISSUES:

1. Peterson is NOT going to play center in the NHL, no way, no how, if he's not doing it in Sweden there's is a 0% chance he does it over here, Peterson is a WINGER, so once again the team finds it's self built from the wing out with ONE decent center,

2. Gaudette's zero points in 5 games is NOT a good sign of things to come, I think he can be realistically considered a third or fourth line guy for the next year or two

3. People can stay as positive about Jake and Joulevi as they like, neither projects to be a core impact player, we couldn't afford to miss on those two drafts, we did, then last yea we took another winger, a winger that looks great, but a winger, now this year we are marooned in a no-man's land OF MORE F'ING WINGERS as far as draft position goes, if there's one thing we DON'T need it more bloody wingers or slow-to-develop-if-they-ever-do defencemen and don't tell me about draft the BPA and trade for what you need, our GM CANNOT MANAGE ASSETS, he cannot trade like other GM's do, if we draft another winger, he's staying

4. Even a complete idiot knows you start building an NHL team by acquiring your top two centers
Bennings predecessor KNEW that and did what it took to get one (Horvat) in his half-decade in Vancouver all Benning has managed to do is acquire are wingers of varying quality....wingers are THE LAST THING you build a team around.....good god we are screwed


----------



## Index

terrible dee said:


> We're NOT stacked, there's A LOT of people in denial about our prospect situation, which has SERIOUS ISSUES:
> 
> 1. Peterson is NOT going to play center in the NHL, no way, no how, if he's not doing it in Sweden there's is a 0% chance he does it over here, Peterson is a WINGER, so once again the team finds it's self built from the wing out with ONE decent center,
> 
> 2. Gaudette's zero points in 5 games is NOT a good sign of things to come, I think he can be realistically considered a third or fourth line guy for the next year or two
> 
> 3. People can stay as positive about Jake and Joulevi as they like, neither projects to be a core impact player, we couldn't afford to miss on those two drafts, we did, then last yea we took another winger, a winger that looks great, but a winger, now this year we are marooned in a no-man's land OF MORE F'ING WINGERS as far as draft position goes, if there's one thing we DON'T need it more bloody wingers or slow-to-develop-if-they-ever-do defencemen and don't tell me about draft the BPA and trade for what you need, our GM CANNOT MANAGE ASSETS, he cannot trade like other GM's do, if we draft another winger, he's staying
> 
> 4. Even a complete idiot knows you start building an NHL team by acquiring your top two centers
> Bennings predecessor KNEW that and did what it took to get one (Horvat) in his half-decade in Vancouver all Benning has managed to do is acquire are wingers of varying quality....wingers are THE LAST THING you build a team around.....good god we are screwed



The Canucks desperately need to get a top 3 in 2019.


----------



## terrible dee

BTW

What we are seeing now from Joulevi IS his ceiling a good European League defenceman, its the same reason he was not able to elevate his game after being drafted, the same reason, he's STILL getting called out for things

Its the reasons for Salo's "Hope in hell" statement, he sees him for what he is: He doesn't have the NHL desire or intensity, he doesn't have a gear above what we've seen.

There will be no "elevating" his game, he doesn't want to have to work any harder than he already has, he thought he was the best defensemen in his draft when he found out that he wasn't and it would take a whole new level of commitment to move up the ladder he stopped trying, he's probably perfectly comfortable with the type of salary he can make at home,

This one, unlike Jake, is going to be a full-on bust

He a good player, but he's not an NHL player by a MILE.....this one is a write-off, time to move on.


----------



## terrible dee

Index said:


> The Canucks desperately need to get a top 3 in 2019.




You and I both know that isn't going to happen, I predict we are going to drop REALLY far this year,

However that might be a good thing, if we can drop within shot of the first set of centers I think it will be a blessing in disguise


----------



## ScottishCanuck

terrible.dee is a TERRIBLE judge of talent who likes to PRETEND he's an expert.

And I DON'T know why he insists on CAPITALISING words. As if that makes his point any less nonsensical.


----------



## Eternalize

terrible dee said:


> 3. People can stay as positive about Jake and Joulevi as they like, neither projects to be a core impact player, we couldn't afford to miss on those two drafts, we did, then last yea we took another winger, a winger that looks great, but a winger, *now this year we are marooned in a no-man's land OF MORE F'ING WINGERS as far as draft position goes*, if there's one thing we DON'T need it more bloody wingers or slow-to-develop-if-they-ever-do defencemen and don't tell me about draft the BPA and trade for what you need, our GM CANNOT MANAGE ASSETS, he cannot trade like other GM's do, if we draft another winger, he's staying



What makes you think this? Unless you're picking in the top3, missing out on the 1st overall pick and Dahlin, there's literally no reason why you would have to pick a winger over a defenceman. Top10 is stacked with defencemen with high-end skill, with a bunch being top5 worthy. I will happily pass on someone like Tkachuk in order to pick one of the defencemen available, im not as down on him as i was with Matthew. I guess you got someone like Wahlstrom, though i wouldn't consider him a clear cut above some of the defencemen in terms of talent. This isn't 2016 when you were in a position where it was a "Dubois/Tkachuk or bust" scenario at 5. Juolevi was never good enough to get picked above any of those guys. Not in terms of how good he was at the time, not in terms of his potential. Can't say the same about this years crop of defencemen.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Lol terrible dee is actually a flames fan in disguise. Can't fool us


----------



## MardyBum

I'm not watching his games, but his numbers are pretty damned good for a D+2 season in Liiga.


----------



## CanuckGame39

terrible dee said:


> BTW
> 
> What we are seeing now from Joulevi IS his ceiling a good European League defenceman, its the same reason he was not able to elevate his game after being drafted, the same reason, he's STILL getting called out for things
> 
> Its the reasons for Salo's "Hope in hell" statement, he sees him for what he is: He doesn't have the NHL desire or intensity, he doesn't have a gear above what we've seen.
> 
> There will be no "elevating" his game, he doesn't want to have to work any harder than he already has, he thought he was the best defensemen in his draft when he found out that he wasn't and it would take a whole new level of commitment to move up the ladder he stopped trying, he's probably perfectly comfortable with the type of salary he can make at home,
> 
> This one, unlike Jake, is going to be a full-on bust
> 
> He a good player, but he's not an NHL player by a MILE.....this one is a write-off, time to move on.




What a pathetic post.

Juolevi is 19 years old but has reached his ceiling and is a bust.


----------



## Sheik Yerbouti

CanuckGame39 said:


> What a pathetic post.
> 
> Juolevi is 19 years old but has reached his ceiling and is a bust.




I also enjoyed him criticising the Pettersson pick because he might end up a winger. #1 ranked prospect in the world who just is setting records but nope our dim witted GM shouldnt have picked him because he might end up a winger.

I hope he's just trolling because I'm concerned for his mental health otherwise.


----------



## Vaslof

Juolevi has been excellent for someone playing their first season out of juniors. Also the best defenseman in the team in the playoffs (and the team is deep on Dmen). Not sure if he'll be in the NHL next year yet, I'd guess a year at least in the AHL first. But his stint in Finland has been a great success.


----------



## Tryamkin

terrible dee said:


> BTW
> 
> What we are seeing now from Joulevi IS his ceiling a good European League defenceman, its the same reason he was not able to elevate his game after being drafted, the same reason, he's STILL getting called out for things
> 
> Its the reasons for Salo's "Hope in hell" statement, he sees him for what he is: He doesn't have the NHL desire or intensity, he doesn't have a gear above what we've seen.
> 
> There will be no "elevating" his game, he doesn't want to have to work any harder than he already has, he thought he was the best defensemen in his draft when he found out that he wasn't and it would take a whole new level of commitment to move up the ladder he stopped trying, he's probably perfectly comfortable with the type of salary he can make at home,
> 
> This one, unlike Jake, is going to be a full-on bust
> 
> He a good player, but he's not an NHL player by a MILE.....this one is a write-off, time to move on.



Please stop posting, your opinions are awful and extremely wrong.


----------



## Tryamkin

This Finnish kid is such a bust, he’s been so bad and he isn’t in the NHL! Time is ticking!!!!! The retirement home is just around the corner!!!! He’s peaked!!!!!


----------



## Mergatroidskittle

Tryamkin said:


> Please stop posting, your opinions are awful and extremely wrong.



I must have already ignored the guy. Do I wanna know what he was spouting?


----------



## Teflon Jim

Just more of the same that gets him ignored in the first place Merg
Just carry on


----------



## Tryamkin

Mergatroidskittle said:


> I must have already ignored the guy. Do I wanna know what he was spouting?



Haha, nope, you really done wanna know.


----------



## Patrik Barkov

Mergatroidskittle said:


> I must have already ignored the guy. Do I wanna know what he was spouting?



Something something peaked at 19 years of age something something


----------



## King In The North

Elias Pettersson said:


> Lol terrible dee is actually a flames fan in disguise. Can't fool us




He's not one of us man


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

Haven't been watching the game, but Juolevi has helped TPS claw back from the brink of elimination with two primary assists.


----------



## Kaako Kappo

TheFinnishTrap said:


> Haven't been watching the game, but Juolevi has helped TPS claw back from the brink of elimination with two primary assists.



He's playing like a man out there. He'll be good, no matter what some people want to believe.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

Paul Maurice said:


> He's playing like a man out there. He'll be good, no matter what some people want to believe.



Nice to see him produce at clutch moments, but I don't know how much he contributed to TPS being down 5-3 in the first place.


----------



## Kaako Kappo

TheFinnishTrap said:


> Nice to see him produce at clutch moments, but I don't know how much he contributed to TPS being down 5-3 in the first place.



He didn't. He's defending well and eating big minutes.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

Paul Maurice said:


> He didn't. He's defending well and eating big minutes.



That's good to hear. Seems like he is having a good playoff run.


----------



## thelittlecoon

TheFinnishTrap said:


> Nice to see him produce at clutch moments, but I don't know how much he contributed to TPS being down 5-3 in the first place.



Fraser has been awful today and on the ice for every Tappara goal it seems like. Juolevi has been a rock all game, easily TPS' best player. He's been on the ice for 4 out of TPS' 5 goals I believe.


----------



## thelittlecoon

TPS are knocked out of playoffs in OT. Think they may play a bronze medal game but Juolevi will probably be heading to Utica soon.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

+3 in a high scoring game, over 26 minutes of TOI and 2 primary assists, not a bad game. I can see why some people say Juolevi looks uninterested and lethargic, it looked like he wasn't even skating at one point, but still he managed to do his job defensively very well.


----------



## FinPanda

Just awesome to hear he played very well when they needed him the most. TPS is just so old team, I can see why the series ended in 4 games.


----------



## The Iron Goalie

TheFinnishTrap said:


> +3 in a high scoring game, over 26 minutes of TOI and 2 primary assists, not a bad game. I can see why some people say Juolevi looks uninterested and lethargic, it looked like he wasn't even skating at one point, but still he managed to do his job defensively very well.




Also had 10 shots today.


----------



## nowhereman

Is there a defensive prospect in hockey that receives as much flack as Juolevi? In some people's minds, this kid can do no right, no matter how well he plays.

The worst parts is, most of it seems to come from his own fanbase. And this is why we can't have nice things...


----------



## Zombotron

nowhereman said:


> Is there a defensive prospect in hockey that receives as much flack as Juolevi? In some people's minds, this kid can do no right, no matter how well he plays.
> 
> The worst parts is, most of it seems to come from his own fanbase. And this is why we can't have nice things...



because matthew tkachuk was an instant impact player for calgary, and then clayton keller put up a 65pt rookie season. neither of those things helped, and we are inherently reactionary


----------



## M2Beezy

Zombotron said:


> because matthew tkachuk was an instant impact player for calgary, and then clayton keller put up a 65pt rookie season. neither of those things helped, and we are inherently reactionary



The correct word is reactive. Reactionary refers to a right wing political tendency. Just an FYI you can thank me if you feel like it.


----------



## 42

Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> The correct word is reactive. Reactionary refers to a right wing political tendency. Just an FYI you can thank me if you feel like it.



I like this definition Urban Dictionary: Reactionary


----------



## lawrence

nowhereman said:


> Is there a defensive prospect in hockey that receives as much flack as Juolevi? In some people's minds, this kid can do no right, no matter how well he plays.
> 
> The worst parts is, most of it seems to come from his own fanbase. And this is why we can't have nice things...




Only the Canuck fanbase on his forum is this hostile towards their own prospects. The other Canuck fan communities are not like this. It's one thing to realize that there are players ahead of him doing better very early, (Sergechev, Tkachuk, Keller), but it's another thing to hate him, and want him to fail badly, like some loser Canucks fans here. 



TheFinnishTrap said:


> +3 in a high scoring game, over 26 minutes of TOI and 2 primary assists, not a bad game. I can see why some people say Juolevi looks uninterested and lethargic, it looked like he wasn't even skating at one point, but still he managed to do his job defensively very well.





not bad that he was a +3 in a 6-5 losing cause. 

He's still got a bronze medal game coming up, no clue what that is, some European hockey followers fill us in on this?


----------



## GeorgeLeafer12

lawrence said:


> Only the Canuck fanbase on his forum is this hostile towards their own prospects. The other Canuck fan communities are not like this. It's one thing to realize that there are players ahead of him doing better very early, (Sergechev, Tkachuk, Keller), but it's another thing to hate him, and want him to fail badly, like some loser Canucks fans here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not bad that he was a +3 in a 6-5 losing cause.
> 
> *He's still got a bronze medal game coming up, no clue what that is, some European hockey followers fill us in on this?*




Short version; you guys in the NA get rings, we here get medals.

Long version: its not the same thing, but it sounded way better.
- here in Finland its always been like so; (like in the worlds)
League champions are also awarded with gold medals, 2nd place finishers
get silver medals and those who did not qualify to the finals,
play a 1 game bronze medal bout and the winner gets bronze medals.

Champions win the Canada Bowl (which was donated by the Canadian Hockey Federation)
2nd place finishers get only the silver medals
Winners of the bronze medal game win no extra trophy, only the medals.


----------



## BL92

Does anyone know what the kids plans are for the next season? I hope he gets to try his skills in the NHL soon.


----------



## FinPanda

Koijari said:


> Does anyone know what the kids plans are for the next season? I hope he gets to try his skills in the NHL soon.



I would imagine his goal is to make the Canucks. If he can't, I think he will play in the AHL.


----------



## Kel Varnson

Koijari said:


> Does anyone know what the kids plans are for the next season? I hope he gets to try his skills in the NHL soon.




He'll be given every opportunity to make the team next season. He'd have to perform very poorly in preseason to not be in the opening day lineup IMO.


----------



## CanuckCity

Take it for what it is, probably not saying a whole lot as him and Mete are the only notable guys bouchard played with. 

Would be interesting if the nucks landed Bouchard though. Could see that being a nice top-pairing (two #2s w/o the true #1). However i envisioning Juolevi as a Lindholm type here and it seems its his D that's his big weakness so this pairing could end up being a tire fire in its own end lol.


----------



## M2Beezy

CanuckCity said:


> Take it for what it is, probably not saying a whole lot as him and Mete are the only notable guys bouchard played with.
> 
> Would be interesting if the nucks landed Bouchard though. Could see that being a nice top-pairing (two #2s w/o the true #1). However i envisioning Juolevi as a Lindholm type here and it seems its his D that's his big weakness so this pairing could end up being a tire fire in its own end lol.




Nice to hear thanks for sharing


----------



## lawrence

Koijari said:


> Does anyone know what the kids plans are for the next season? I hope he gets to try his skills in the NHL soon.[/QUOT
> 
> Linden said he will be in North America next season. So ahl and nhl.


----------



## Offre Hostile

Koijari said:


> Does anyone know what the kids plans are for the next season? I hope he gets to try his skills in the NHL soon.




AHL most likely judging from his play this year. Not NHL ready yet in my eyes but barring any injuries he should be a lock to get called up some time next year. Not counting out the possibility of making it out of the camp either.


----------



## Uncle Rotter




----------



## Deleted member 55113

Uncle Rotter said:


>



Is this the video game Olli was playing as referenced in this thread? 

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/prospects-and-video-game-addiction.2492649/


----------



## Uncle Rotter

Rimsky44 said:


> Is this the video game Olli was playing as referenced in this thread?
> 
> http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/prospects-and-video-game-addiction.2492649/



Atari too!


----------



## Robongo01

Where is all the controversy about Laine and Ehlers literally buying TVs on the road to play their video games? Judging by their playoff performances , that seems a more reasonable discussion.

Olli was the wrong pick, but he’ll be fine. The thing that scares me most is him being eaten alive by the Van media/fans. Hes the next Edler IMO, a fine dman whos lofty expectations always overshadowed his abilities on the ice.

Hopefully he has thick skin


----------



## DoingItCoolKiwi

Robongo01 said:


> Where is all the controversy about Laine and Ehlers literally buying TVs on the road to play their video games? Judging by their playoff performances , that seems a more reasonable discussion.




I'm lost for words. The controversy isn't about using the free time to play video games. A huge part of young players probably do that, and there is no talk about it because it simply has no effect on your hockey skills whether you spend evenings on computers or with your family. The problem comes in when a player doesn't sleep because of the video games.


----------



## Kaako Kappo

Rimsky44 said:


> Is this the video game Olli was playing as referenced in this thread?
> 
> http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/prospects-and-video-game-addiction.2492649/



This is referring to a player who's still playing in Juniors. It's not Juolevi.


----------



## Robongo01

DoingItCoolKiwi said:


> I'm lost for words. The controversy isn't about using the free time to play video games. A huge part of young players probably do that, and there is no talk about it because it simply has no effect on your hockey skills whether you spend evenings on computers or with your family. The problem comes in when a player doesn't sleep because of the video games.




You kind of proved my point. Its a ridiculous topic and shouldnt be discussed. My point was why is a teenager being heavily criticized because of nothing but speculation when actual NHLers in the midst of a playoff conference finals admit to gaming haed probably to get their minds off hockey? Media is always known to blow things out of proportion , after all that is their job


----------



## DoingItCoolKiwi

Robongo01 said:


> You kind of proved my point. Its a ridiculous topic and shouldnt be discussed. My point was why is a teenager being heavily criticized because of nothing but speculation when actual NHLers in the midst of a playoff conference finals admit to gaming haed probably to get their minds off hockey? Media is always known to blow things out of proportion , after all that is their job



The reason this is a topic is because Marek said the player's video game hobby is at the point where he doesn't sleep, which actually has an effect on his play on ice. If the story was that a CHL player spends his evenings gaming, like many others, no one would have cared a bit and we wouldn't be here


----------



## Ainec

Paul Maurice said:


> This is referring to a player who's still playing in Juniors. It's not Juolevi.




no it was a player playing a year ago


----------



## Kaako Kappo

Ainec said:


> no it was a player playing a year ago



_“And hopefully,” said Marek, ”And again, this is information that’s six months old. Actually, you might say a year old now.* But it’s a terrible story because this guy is a good junior hockey player.* This guy is a good player and was a high pick – and I’m probably saying too much right there – but there’s a good chance he’s not going to make it to the NHL and his general manager said, ‘Yeah, video game addiction is bad. It’s bad with this kid.’ “_

No. He says he heard the story a year ago. He says that the player "*IS *a good junior hockey player", which refers to current time.


----------



## Ainec

Paul Maurice said:


> _“And hopefully,” said Marek, ”And again, this is information that’s six months old. Actually, you might say a year old now.* But it’s a terrible story because this guy is a good junior hockey player.* This guy is a good player and was a high pick – and I’m probably saying too much right there – but there’s a good chance he’s not going to make it to the NHL and his general manager said, ‘Yeah, video game addiction is bad. It’s bad with this kid.’ “_
> 
> No. He says he heard the story a year ago. He says that the player "*IS *a good junior hockey player", which refers to current time.




juolevi is a good junior player


----------



## Kaako Kappo

Ainec said:


> juolevi is a good junior player



Was


----------



## TkachukNorris79

Ainec said:


> juolevi is a good junior _fortnite_ player




Fixed it for you


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

Ainec said:


> juolevi is a good junior player



Heiskanen isn’t referred to as a junior player. Juolevi was a junior player.


----------



## elitepete

CanuckCity said:


> Take it for what it is, probably not saying a whole lot as him and Mete are the only notable guys bouchard played with.
> 
> Would be interesting if the nucks landed Bouchard though. Could see that being a nice top-pairing (two #2s w/o the true #1). However i envisioning Juolevi as a Lindholm type here and it seems its his D that's his big weakness so this pairing could end up being a tire fire in its own end lol.




I don’t see that being a top pairing in the NHL, it would more likely be a 2nd pairing.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

Too bad he won't make the nhl at all due to his crippling angry birds addiction


----------



## Jacob

I heard he wears diapers so he doesn't have to get up to leave his gaming rig. Really unfortunate.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

Jacob said:


> I heard he wears diapers so he doesn't have to get up to leave his gaming rig. Really unfortunate.



That’s just maximizing efficiency.


----------



## nucksflailtogether

I hope Juolevi either earns his opening day spot 100% or gets put in the AHL and has to earn his call-ups. I want to see him come in as a guy who can provide some offense and get PP time. But he needs to show he's ready. Our management needs to not be impatient just to try to prove they made the right pick (which they obviously didn't)


----------



## Striiker

Jacob said:


> I heard he wears diapers so he doesn't have to get up to leave his gaming rig. Really unfortunate.


----------



## Fulham

I don't see a scenario where he doesn't walk straight into our team, and immediately play on the 1st PP unit. 

Based solely on just how inept our D is, especially offensively


----------



## BL92

So much shit thrown at this kid. I'm certain that he'll prove the haters wrong.


----------



## ponder

Fulham said:


> I don't see a scenario where he doesn't walk straight into our team, and immediately play on the 1st PP unit.
> 
> Based solely on just how inept our D is, especially offensively



The Nucks, like most teams, will probably continue to go with 4F, 1D on the PP. I assume that D will continue to be Edler. If Juolevi makes the team, he'll be competing with Pouliot (if re-signed), Hutton, MDZ and Stecher for the 2nd unit D spot - he'll have a shot to win that one.


----------



## wings5

Would be smart to let him play the majority of the season in the AHL.


----------



## HockeyAnalystGenius

Unbiased said:


> I'd take him 5th if we had the pick. Guy already plays like a professional player






Roark said:


> Yep, this is a guy a team can build on. Definitely #1 defenceman potential






Prins Filip said:


> Hopefully. He reminds me a lot of Shattenkirk. Would be incredible if he reaches that level some day.






rt said:


> I get scary Gormley vibes. I watched a lot of Gormley as an amateur and always thought he was the safest of prospects with a very, very high floor. I've never been more wrong about a prospect. I never could have anticipated how the increased speed of the NHL game would totally overwhelm him and that he would completely fail to adapt in any way. He seemed so smart in junior and always made the right decisions. But the NHL took away some time and space and he became utterly useless.
> 
> How much quicker is Juolevi than Gormley? Does he move faster, think faster, and make plays faster? I didn't see that at the WJCs. I saw a very smooth, very effective player. But not necessarily a very quick one.
> 
> Sergachev seems quicker. More raw. More mistake prone. But quicker and with more "tools". Is that fair to say? OHL fans who have seen a lot of both should be able to compare the two pretty well.






The Winter Soldier said:


> This is not meant to be hyperbolic, but If I were picking 4th overall right now. I would pick Juolevi. I love his smarts, poise, and his willingness to sacrifice the body to make a play. He is a very cerebral player that just oozes quality.






Virtanen2Horvat said:


> Well if the Canucks stick around their position I know they are getting this kid. I hope we get one of Juolevi or Chychurun






Royal Canuck said:


> Now that the Canucks slide to 5th, really hoping the Oilers pass up on this guy for Vancouver to take at 5.






Etteduag ot Reseob said:


> Would love him somehow on the Canucks just no way we pass up on Tkachuck at 5






Battle Lin said:


> watched 1st memorial game, this isnt the best Dman in an nhl draft, no way






Battle Lin said:


> if this kid is the best or even among the best D's in a draft then my gawd what a weak draft for defenesemen






Terrible GM said:


> Said it in the Knights post, but I'm not impressed with him. He makes very good passes out of his zone, and skates extremely well, but he makes poor effort along the boards, and found tonight he was timid getting the puck when a huskie was near him. I just don't find him extremely special to be a top pairing guy. The hype from his great play in junior didn't stick with me after watching the knights all season, and playoffs.






Lucbourdon said:


> Every game I have seen him play, I basically see vlasic / Hamhuis clone.
> 
> Which imo is worth a top 6 pick imo






Male75FromFinland said:


> Juolevi is poor man`s Lidstrom.
> 
> He might end up being top 3 player from this draft






PrinceOfPucks said:


> I can see the Canucks drafting him at 5 and I wouldn't lose any sleep on it.
> 
> This is the type of Dman that can play 25 minutes a night because his skating and iq is off the charts.
> 
> Dont count out the fact that he is a winner as well from WJC to Mem Cup.






Cupless44 said:


> It can't be all about IQ and poise, he is skinny, doesn't play physical, doesn't put up a lot of points on an offensive juggernaut. Just not the reward you want after a miserable season and first top 5 draft pick of this century for the Canucks.




I go through History and read with Interest.


----------



## Canucks LB

HockeyAnalystGenius said:


> I go through History and read with Interest.



he has regressed not progressed, nothing with those posts are even that wrong.

If you actually read the rest of some of mine, I said clearly wanting Tkachuk, and Juolevi was a bad pick.


----------



## rt

Lucbourdon said:


> he has regressed not progressed, nothing with those posts are even that wrong.
> 
> If you actually read the rest of some of mine, I said clearly wanting Tkachuk, and Juolevi was a bad pick.



That guy is just a joke account. If you read the posts he quoted, some are very complimentary of Juolevi and other are very derogatory. It’s a meaningless statement he made.


----------



## lawrence

Lucbourdon said:


> he has regressed not progressed, nothing with those posts are even that wrong.
> 
> If you actually read the rest of some of mine, I said clearly wanting Tkachuk, and Juolevi was a bad pick.




He was his teams minutes leader, points leader for a dman, and 3rd in points for his entire team during their playoff run. I do not see that as a regression, you might say "well he's an overager of course the coach will play him" he didn't play in juniors this year, and was the teams youngest player, the coach wouldn't play him the most if they coach didn't think he was their best dman, now one of their top 2 was injured, yes, but still... the coach could have chosen 4 other veterans to patch up the top 2 spot on Defence, they used Juolevi.

only on hfboards.com is he regression my gawd. Would be a considered a young stud if he was drafted by a no name American team.


----------



## lawrence

Etteduag ot Reseob said: ↑
Would love him somehow on the Canucks just no way we pass up on Tkachuck at 5

epic.


----------



## Filthy Dangles

lawrence said:


> Etteduag ot Reseob said: ↑
> Would love him somehow on the Canucks just no way we pass up on Tkachuck at 5
> 
> epic.




Link to quote?

Edit: found it quoted above


----------



## Filthy Dangles

HockeyAnalystGenius said:


> I go through History and read with Interest.




@Battle Lin knew tho.


----------



## lawrence

LiasAndersson said:


> @Battle Lin knew tho.




Another based on one game theory. (Or a short tourney. Hfboards.com never ceases to amaze.


----------



## Scott Malkinson

Striiker said:


>




I love South Park references.


----------



## Filthy Dangles




----------



## Kaako Kappo

LiasAndersson said:


>




No shit. Vancouver fans are awesome.


----------



## Grub

Paul Maurice said:


> No ****. Vancouver fans are awesome.



It's what happens to a fanbase that's been bottom 3 the past 4 years. We like to gossip and predict the doom and gloom. 

Hope Juolevi proofs everyone here wrong including myself.


----------



## Breakers

Ohh man so I guess speculation rises on other prospects now.


----------



## Szechwan

LiasAndersson said:


>




Knowing this place, this still won't stop the speculation


----------



## Billy Kvcmu

Juolevi regressed is the biggest joke I’ve heard in a while


----------



## 1972

It’s not him, he’s a lock to at least be a second pairing guy...there zero doubt he’s an NHler.


----------



## CanuckGame39

LiasAndersson said:


>




Now... can Juolevi can play his video games in peace?


----------



## Teemu




----------



## tony d

To bad to see that with Juolevi. Still have high hopes for him that he can be a solid top 4 defenseman in the NHL.


----------



## Dump Itch

Wow. How did Benning not foresee this? What a bad GM.


----------



## TheFinnishTrap

That sucks.


----------



## Filthy Dangles

that is bad, very bad. hopefully it's not career threatenting


----------



## CRDragon

Dump Itch said:


> Wow. How did Benning not foresee this? What a bad GM.




When would you have expected Jim Benning to foresee this? Before the draft? What a terrible comment.

Let's hope Juolevi recovers from this well.


----------



## Pestilence

CRDragon said:


> When would you have expected Jim Benning to foresee this? Before the draft? What a terrible comment.




What are you doing? This comment belongs to Etteduag ot Reseob.


----------



## Seatoo

Recovery is like 6 weeks? He won't be making the big club this year if he basically cant train until the last week of July.


----------



## Frankie Blueberries

Classic Canuck luck.
Oh well. I think there's still a decent chance he sees some time in the NHL this season, just mid-to-late season given the delay in his off-season conditioning. He'll probably start in the AHL and be a call-up for injuries later in the season.


----------



## These Are The Days

How do you hurt your back playing video games? This kid must be intense /sarcasm


----------



## Rolo

AlwaysSunnyInTampa said:


> How do you hurt your back playing video games? This kid must be intense /sarcasm



Bad posture when playing video games


----------



## nucks88

AlwaysSunnyInTampa said:


> How do you hurt your back playing video games? This kid must be intense /sarcasm



It takes a special kind of tough guy to make light of a 20 year old kid having back surgery.


----------



## nucks88

Rolo said:


> Bad posture when playing video games



Ditto


----------



## Thorton02

Shouldn't be too bad. I mean, when's the last time a top rated Canucks prospect had a back injury?


----------



## Jack DiBiase

Teemu said:


>




It's probably just a scratch on a PS4 game disc.


----------



## Belieber

As long as he's healthy in 3-5 years they won't care. Now that the Sedins have finally left they can turn this rebuild into a very special type of tank job.


----------



## teravaineSAROS

Rolo said:


> Bad posture when playing video games




also people who play video games are on average less physically healthy and more prone to say back problems so it would've made sense


----------



## IComeInPeace

Daniel Sedin had the same surgery before the start of his 2nd NHL season (he had it done in May though, a month earlier in the off season) back in 2001, before he became a star at the NHL level.

These are relatively minor surgeries; the real downside is that it will put Olli a month behind in his training, and a good off season of training is really important for him.

Maybe it works out for the best as it might make him start the season in Utica which is probably the best place for him initially.


----------



## thelittlecoon

One of the greatest hockey minds in the universe Emmanuel Perry named Olli Juolevi the 5th best prospect in the league pre-2018 draft.


----------



## LemonSauceD

thelittlecoon said:


> One of the greatest hockey minds in the universe Emmanuel Perry named Olli Juolevi the 5th best prospect in the league pre-2018 draft.




Tolvanen over Heiskanen? hmmm


----------



## SoundAndFury

Do you get some kind of bonus for being European in his system? Because it definitely looks so.


----------



## ijuka

SoundAndFury said:


> Do you get some kind of bonus for being European in his system? Because it definitely looks so.



It weighs production in professional leagues pretty highly in comparison to junior leagues.


----------



## SoundAndFury

ijuka said:


> It weighs production in professional leagues pretty highly in comparison to junior leagues.



D production as well. Valimaki at #10, Jokiharju at #14 just because they can score in junior while Liljegren who had a very solid rookie season in the AHL as an 18 year-old at #42. That just doesn't seem to be right. Even more so considering Valimaki turns 20 on 2nd day of the season.


----------



## ijuka

SoundAndFury said:


> D production as well. Valimaki at #10, Jokiharju at #14 just because they can score in junior while Liljegren who had a very solid rookie season in the AHL as an 18 year-old at #42. That just doesn't seem to be right.



Maybe his playoff performance has something to do with it? Juolevi for instance was reportedly amazing in playoffs(After the moderately disappointing regular season) and that seems to be reflected in the scoring as well.


----------



## SoundAndFury

ijuka said:


> Maybe his playoff performance has something to do with it? Juolevi for instance was reportedly amazing in playoffs(After the moderately disappointing regular season) and that seems to be reflected in the scoring as well.



Yeah, sure, Valimaki is so high because he kept producing in the PO as well. But I don't think he adjusts the coefficient for it or anything it's just that they managed to keep producing at high PPG number while a lot of other players' numbers dip in PO. Nicolas Hague, for example, would be there as well as he had better numbers than Valimaki or Jokiharju in junior before they got "ruined" by his stint in the AHL.

It's kinda the perfect example of a major flaw of this, purely statistical, system. Hague was better than them when he played against the same level of competition and in the rankings he isn't just because he did play against higher level competition as well while the other guys didn't. If he played for a junior team which advanced one round of the playoffs further he would be there at ~#12.


----------



## Haatley

SoundAndFury said:


> D production as well. Valimaki at #10, Jokiharju at #14 just because they can score in junior while Liljegren who had a very solid rookie season in the AHL as an 18 year-old at #42. That just doesn't seem to be right. Even more so considering Valimaki turns 20 on 2nd day of the season.




The Hockey News and Craig Button also had Valimaki quite high and Liljegren quite low. It turns out it is only Leaf fans that were impressed with Liljegren last year. His stock dropped when he only scored 1 goal all season and couldn't produce 5 on 5. He was quite terrible on both ends. Bad in WJC as well.


----------



## Captain Mountain

SoundAndFury said:


> D production as well. Valimaki at #10, Jokiharju at #14 just because they can score in junior while Liljegren who had a very solid rookie season in the AHL as an 18 year-old at #42. That just doesn't seem to be right. Even more so considering Valimaki turns 20 on 2nd day of the season.




He uses NHLe and age adjustments in his formula.

Lijegren had a good D+1 year, that doesn't mean he's better than other prospects.

He also admits that the model is very much a work in progress (due to limited access to data).


----------



## ijuka

It's true that the goals matter, they seem to be weighed pretty highly in comparison to assists. And also, if Liljegren had a high portion of his points being secondary assists, I'm sure that's going to be a problem also.

Juolevi himself scored plenty of goals.


----------



## TheGoldenJet

thelittlecoon said:


> One of the greatest hockey minds in the universe Emmanuel Perry named Olli Juolevi the 5th best prospect in the league pre-2018 draft.





Pretty bad list TBH.


----------



## TheGoldenJet

Captain Wolverine said:


> He also admits that the model is very much a work in progress (due to limited access to data).




Yes it is.


----------



## Elias Pettersson

I'll tell you one thing. Juolevi is not a top 5 prospect


----------



## JTmillerForA1stLOL

Elias Pettersson said:


> I'll tell you one thing. Juolevi is not a top 5 prospect




More like top 5 worst prospects.


----------



## M2Beezy

thelittlecoon said:


> One of the greatest hockey minds in the universe Emmanuel Perry named Olli Juolevi the 5th best prospect in the league pre-2018 draft.




We should trade Necas IMMEDIATELY then, and since Juolevi is ranked higher, also ask Carolina for a pick


----------



## Phil68

What happened with this highly touted prospect ( Olli Juolevi ). How come he didn't make the cut for the Canucks


----------



## Josepho

Phil68 said:


> What happened with this highly touted prospect ( Olli Juolevi ). How come he didn't make the cut for the Canucks




Partially that we have a log jam of shitty 3rd pairing defencemen and our regime isn't known for their ability to admit their mistakes.
Partially because his only action in the preseason was with Erik Gudbranson.
Partially because he needs to be quicker and more aggresive.

I've said before that a lot of his problems seem very fixable with the right coach and such, but I'm not sure if the Canucks can provide those things for him.


----------



## WetcoastOrca

Phil68 said:


> What happened with this highly touted prospect ( Olli Juolevi ). How come he didn't make the cut for the Canucks



Two reasons:
1. Eight mostly mediocre defensemen signed.
2. Recovering from surgery this summer so was not expected to make it.
I think he’ll be playing in the NHL by the end of the year once he gets back up to speed. He looks like he took some big strides this past year in Finland. He’s never going to be the right pick but he looks like he could develop into a good second pairing guy. Maybe even more.
We will see.
It’s easy to forget that he’s only turned 20 years of age. He was a young draftee.


----------



## stampedingviking

Josepho said:


> Partially that we have a log jam of ****ty 3rd pairing defencemen and our regime isn't known for their ability to admit their mistakes.
> Partially because his only action in the preseason was with Erik Gudbranson.
> Partially because he needs to be quicker and more aggresive.
> 
> I've said before that a lot of his problems seem very fixable with the right coach and such, but I'm not sure if the Canucks can provide those things for him.



Don't forget he's hardly trained all summer


----------



## Broadslayer

He’s easily one of the most frustrating players and I imagine it would be annoying coaching him.

The thing about him is he’s an awful choice for a rebuilding team because his problem is between the ears. 

He’s a big game player and the playoffs are the only time he ever shows up. Which sounds great, but there’s 82 games to play in a season and with parity in the league, every game has to count to even get to the playoffs.

His attitude sucks and he’ll only ever be good on good teams in good situations. His IQ is good (not as good as he thinks it is) and his attention to details are beautiful.

Training this summer wouldn’t have helped because it’s the same issues. Compete level is basura for 90% of games played. Waste of potential for sure.


----------



## Dump Itch

Broadslayer said:


> He’s easily one of the most frustrating players and* I imagine it would be annoying coaching him.*
> 
> The thing about him is he’s an awful choice for a rebuilding team because his* problem is between the ears. *
> 
> He’s a big game player and the playoffs are the only time he ever shows up. Which sounds great, but there’s 82 games to play in a season and with parity in the league, every game has to count to even get to the playoffs.
> 
> *His attitude sucks *and he’ll only ever be good on good teams in good situations. *His IQ is good* (not as good as he thinks it is) and his attention to details are beautiful.
> 
> Training this summer wouldn’t have helped because it’s the same issues. *Compete level is basura for 90% of games played*. Waste of potential for sure.




I'm going to need proof on these 5 things please. With links.


----------



## lawrence

Broadslayer said:


> He’s easily one of the most frustrating players and I imagine it would be annoying coaching him.
> 
> The thing about him is he’s an awful choice for a rebuilding team because his problem is between the ears.
> 
> He’s a big game player and the playoffs are the only time he ever shows up. Which sounds great, but there’s 82 games to play in a season and with parity in the league, every game has to count to even get to the playoffs.
> 
> His attitude sucks and he’ll only ever be good on good teams in good situations. His IQ is good (not as good as he thinks it is) and his attention to details are beautiful.
> 
> Training this summer wouldn’t have helped because it’s the same issues. Compete level is basura for 90% of games played. Waste of potential for sure.









what the f*** is this newbie talking about. My gosh the smeer campagin never stop around here


----------



## WolvesAndWings

Surprised at the lack of jokes in this thread after the Canucks banned their players from playing Fortnite on road trips.


----------



## Broadslayer

lawrence said:


> what the **** is this newbie talking about. My gosh the smeer campagin never stop around here





What exactly does that prove, Lawrence? He looked good in the AHL..and at this point he needs to.

The talent is there without a doubt. When and if the Canucks get good again, he will be a playoff monster.

How’s that a smear campaign? I’d rather have that on my team than a box score hero who folds when it matters.

All I’m saying is that he needs a perfect situation to hit his potential and it depends on too many unknown factors.

Whereas picks like Keller flourish no matter what.....or Mete

It’s a valid non-emotional assessment of the player that is Olli Juolevi


----------



## lawrence

Broadslayer said:


> because his problem is between the ears.




this is not a valid assessment. 

Also someone above you has asked for some proof. Please respond to him.


----------



## Sergei Shirokov

Phil68 said:


> What happened with this highly touted prospect ( Olli Juolevi ). How come he didn't make the cut for the Canucks




His conditioning isn't up to par after missing training time with that surgery. He had some blunders in preseason but also looked like the best puck-moving defenseman on the team at other times. 

Give it like 2 months, maybe 2-3, and he'll be up with the Canucks.


----------



## Broadslayer

Dump Itch said:


> I'm going to need proof on these 5 things please. With links.



Watch his games. There’s enough London Knight fans on here you can ask as well. 

Mind explaining why he was a healthy scratch in a B-Level league earlier this year as well? And lost his pos. as #1 D the year before? 

But maybe it’s my fault for holding a 5th overall pick to a higher standard.


----------



## BL92

I hope that he gets into the team as soon as possible. He's not going to live up to the hype, but he's still very young and could turn out to be a good D.


----------



## edd1e

I think it's too early to lose hope for Juolevi. He is still very young.. he very well could become solid 1st pair D in the NHL.

Main thing from what i've seen is that he needs to be more consistent and there's a good reason to believe that will come with age.


----------



## Coaches Coroner

Saw most of Olli's games (pretty much every home game, many road games) in his draft year, at the time I saw him projecting as a really solid 2nd pairing D who can defend well with stick and positioning and a quality puck mover. Never really saw #1 or #2 potential in his game. The way his development has gone, I still think he has a good shot at being a solid 3 or 4 once he puts some things together.


----------



## Tryamkin

I just wanted to contribute to this thread by saying Olli has the worst plus/minus in the AHL so far with -7. Worst on the team by a bit. Utica has a winning record.


----------



## GetFocht

I think he will develop into an Alex Edler type, a reliable 30 point 2 way defenceman. He will likely slot in as 3rd defenceman in a top 4 on the left side, #1 LD will be Quinn Hughes


----------



## BL92

Tryamkin said:


> I just wanted to contribute to this thread by saying Olli has the worst plus/minus in the AHL so far with -7. Worst on the team by a bit. Utica has a winning record.



He's so frustrating, god. I honestly don't know if he'll ever make it in the NHL. Luckily Finland has tons of other prospects.


----------



## GetFocht

Koijari said:


> He's so frustrating, god. I honestly don't know if he'll ever make it in the NHL. Luckily Finland has tons of other prospects.




He's only 20 years, won't be 21 until May in his first pro NA season.


----------



## Ainec

blame Laine for introducing him to fortnite


----------



## BL92

PorscheDesign said:


> He's only 20 years, won't be 21 until May in his first pro NA season.



I know, he's still young and a lot could still happen. Still, I think it's safe to say that he won't become what was originally envisioned.


----------



## stampedingviking

Tryamkin said:


> I just wanted to contribute to this thread by saying Olli has the worst plus/minus in the AHL so far with -7. Worst on the team by a bit. Utica has a winning record.



There's also this pint of view.

Ryan Johnson on Juolevi: I'm extremely happy. This is the best I've seen Olli in a sense of level of engagement. He's aggressive. We know what kind of hockey sense he has, but he's being physical. He's being engaged in the games, with his teammates. He's playing anywhere from 19-23min.


----------



## Jimbo57

stampedingviking said:


> There's also this pint of view.
> 
> Ryan Johnson on Juolevi: I'm extremely happy. This is the best I've seen Olli in a sense of level of engagement. He's aggressive. We know what kind of hockey sense he has, but he's being physical. He's being engaged in the games, with his teammates. He's playing anywhere from 19-23min.




another thing that is being overlooked with his plus minus is that most of that has come because hes been on the ice when they have been burned short handed 4 times...the stat is misleading.


----------



## Icebreakers

Jimbo57 said:


> another thing that is being overlooked with his plus minus is that most of that has come because hes been on the ice when they have been burned short handed 4 times...the stat is misleading.




You dont get a minus if you get scored on when short handed . Unless if you mean when the opponant scores on you when they are short handed...in which case that would be sad.


----------



## Jimbo57

Icebreakers said:


> You dont get a minus if you get scored on when short handed . Unless if you mean when the opponant scores on you when they are short handed...in which case that would be sad.




thats the case, the opponent was short handed. i dont find it as sad. one bad game where the marlies hammered them multiple times short handed. At the end of the day the -7 isnt indicative of his play. Just ask Johnson..(quoted above)


----------



## Raistlin

Juolevi is inconsistent, he is hurt by where he's drafted. if he's drafted in the mid teens, he wont be under such a microscope. From what i've seen, I still believe he has a good shot of being a top 4 guy, his IQ is there, and no one can coach the big game X-factor that he has. Its true that his work ethic had been called into question throughout his early career, thankfully it is something that can change with good coaching, look at Hutton so far this year. He needs to be motivated by the right coach I believe. His future is still bright, using a top 5 pick on a top 4 mobile PMD is not a horrible investment on Benning's part.


----------



## lawrence

Raistlin1022 said:


> Juolevi is inconsistent, he is hurt by where he's drafted. if he's drafted in the mid teens, he wont be under such a microscope. From what i've seen, I still believe he has a good shot of being a top 4 guy, his IQ is there, and no one can coach the big game X-factor that he has. Its true that his work ethic had been called into question throughout his early career, thankfully it is something that can change with good coaching, look at Hutton so far this year. He needs to be motivated by the right coach I believe. His future is still bright, using a top 5 pick on a top 4 mobile PMD is not a horrible investment on Benning's part.




He's been Utica's top dman, and he just scored his first AHL goal. He's also the leader in ice time in Utica.


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## Tryamkin

Raistlin1022 said:


> Juolevi is inconsistent, he is hurt by where he's drafted. if he's drafted in the mid teens, he wont be under such a microscope. From what i've seen, I still believe he has a good shot of being a top 4 guy, his IQ is there, and no one can coach the big game X-factor that he has. Its true that his work ethic had been called into question throughout his early career, thankfully it is something that can change with good coaching, look at Hutton so far this year. He needs to be motivated by the right coach I believe. His future is still bright, using a top 5 pick on a top 4 mobile PMD is not a horrible investment on Benning's part.



u want him in HFVHL?


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## Sergei Shirokov

Koijari said:


> He's so frustrating, god. I honestly don't know if he'll ever make it in the NHL. Luckily Finland has tons of other prospects.




He'll play in the NHL this season. 

From everything I've heard and seen so far he seems to be playing well. I'll trust Ryan Johnson over what seems to be a misleading stat.


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## Sergei Shirokov

I believe that's 3 points (1G, 2A) in 6 games now.


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## lawrence

Sergei Shirokov said:


> He'll play in the NHL this season.
> 
> From everything I've heard and seen so far he seems to be playing well. I'll trust Ryan Johnson over what seems to be a misleading stat.




him and Guillaume Brisebois has been their top 2 dmans. Brisebois 's been playing very good also.


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## Nabrules

13 points in 16 AHL games. For all the crap he’s taken from everyone he’s coming along nicely. He and Hughes should form a solid 1-2 duo on the left side for the Canucks!


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## Pip

Nabrules said:


> 13 points in 16 AHL games. For all the crap he’s taken from everyone he’s coming along nicely. He and Hughes should form a solid 1-2 duo on the left side for the Canucks!




He's also reportedly been poor in his own end. Definitely needs to shore that up if he wants to play in the NHL in any capacity


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## Nabrules

Where did you hear that from? Comets Gm Johnson said he’s played well in his own zone for the most part, some missed assignments here and there but nothing out of the ordinary for a rookie dman.


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## lawrence

Pip said:


> He's also reportedly been poor in his own end. Definitely needs to shore that up if he wants to play in the NHL in any capacity




full time fans who's seen him play.

-Positioning wise work is needed. big time. Or his reads can be off.
-puck decision wise has been very good though.
- doing a heck of a job on the powerplay
-needs to add a little bit more strength too.

but yes, he does need to work on defensive positioning from lots of reports Ive seen. fortunate it's actually that instead of puck decision skills which has mostly been very positive.

I do believe he will have a crucial role with the Canucks down the road.


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## WetcoastOrca

Great to see that the offense is there. He’s leading all rookie AHL defensemen and has been improving as the year goes on. 
Still needs work defensively. He’s still really young. This year should see him get big minutes in Utica and work on his defense. Really pleased to see that he’s taken such a huge step offensively as this was unexpected.


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