# Is the FHL back to 5 teams?



## AHLFAN

Just checked the FHL website. Was checking the teams list to see if Berlin had chosen a name yet. Berlin has been removed from the teams list. Looks like this joke of a league is at it again.


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## Francis10

There was newspaper stories about the Berlin team no more than 3 weeks ago. Wonder what happened?


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## Falconone

*Welllllllll maybe and maybe not*



AHLFAN said:


> Just checked the FHL website. Was checking the teams list to see if Berlin had chosen a name yet. Berlin has been removed from the teams list. Looks like this joke of a league is at it again.




If you go to the Fed site and use the pull down menu it doesn't show the Berlin team listed there. However, if you go to the bottom of the Fed main page and click on the listing in red for "teams" Berlin comes up as the first team listed.

Yes, I know it's confusing. But the Berlin team had their team naming contest only recently end so there may be an announcement about that soon.


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## Falconone

*update*

Fed has sent two representatives to Berlin. Been there for about a month. 

Team name has been picked. No announcement made. 

Team bus is supposed to be arriving today. 

Team colors match those of Hersey Bears of AHL. 

Article by Berlin newspaper is in process of being written.

No announcement by league suggests there are still details to work themselves out.


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## AHLFAN

I'm sorry. I don't believe there a team bus, colors or name. Oh I forgot the bus is still in the shope being refurbished after the movie Slapshot. Sure did need alot of repairs. It is now down to 54 days and counting before the FHL season starts. The FHL sent two representative to Berlin? What did they send them for to sell the 2 or 3 season tickets they would sell. And finally the local Berlin paper is in the process of writing an article. How long does it take to write an article. This whole Berlin deal smells fishy. This is going to be like the Vermont team that became Delaware.


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## Falconone

*clarification*



AHLFAN said:


> I'm sorry. I don't believe there a team bus, colors or name. Oh I forgot the bus is still in the shope being refurbished after the movie Slapshot. Sure did need alot of repairs. It is now down to 54 days and counting before the FHL season starts. The FHL sent two representative to Berlin? What did they send them for to sell the 2 or 3 season tickets they would sell. And finally the local Berlin paper is in the process of writing an article. How long does it take to write an article. This whole Berlin deal smells fishy. This is going to be like the Vermont team that became Delaware.




AHLF,

People believe what they choose to believe for whatever reasons they want to.

I spoke to a town official directly who gave me the information I posted. 

To clarify my post about the article, I should have said the article is being written *FOR* the Berlin newspaper, *NOT BY *the Berlin newspaper. I did call the Berlin newspaper directly and they referred me to the town official I spoke to. The newspaper did not make any reference to an article. It was the town official who said the article was being written and he didn't know what the status was of the article.

As for the bus in Slap Shot I think it would be cool if it were the same bus and you are right if it were the same bus it would need a lot of work.

I don't know what the league representatives are doing in Berlin. I didn't ask.

I was trying to understand what if anything was going on with the proposed franchise since there seemed to be little new information. What I posted is what I was told.

As for previous forays that you allude to I can't comment. I didn't speak to anyone including the owner of the Vermont franchise, Randall Latona or the GM, Graham Kirk as it wasn't anything I was interested in knowing. 

Look, I can't tell you if this team is going to be successful or not. I do know that Berlin has a rich hockey history coming from the French Canadian roots of the early settlers there. Whether that's enough to sustain a team will have to be seen.

F1


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## CrazyEddie20

Falconone said:


> AHLF,
> 
> People believe what they choose to believe for whatever reasons they want to.
> 
> I spoke to a town official directly who gave me the information I posted.
> 
> To clarify my post about the article, I should have said the article is being written *FOR* the Berlin newspaper, *NOT BY *the Berlin newspaper. I did call the Berlin newspaper directly and they referred me to the town official I spoke to. The newspaper did not make any reference to an article. It was the town official who said the article was being written and he didn't know what the status was of the article.
> 
> As for the bus in Slap Shot I think it would be cool if it were the same bus and you are right if it were the same bus it would need a lot of work.
> 
> I don't know what the league representatives are doing in Berlin. I didn't ask.
> 
> I was trying to understand what if anything was going on with the proposed franchise since there seemed to be little new information. What I posted is what I was told.
> 
> As for previous forays that you allude to I can't comment. I didn't speak to anyone including the owner of the Vermont franchise, Randall Latona or the GM, Graham Kirk as it wasn't anything I was interested in knowing.
> 
> Look, I can't tell you if this team is going to be successful or not. I do know that Berlin has a rich hockey history coming from the French Canadian roots of the early settlers there. Whether that's enough to sustain a team will have to be seen.
> 
> F1




Post links to reputable media sources or names of the town/league officials or it isn't true.


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## Falconone

*vetted*

CE2,

You may recall that there was a post by a moderator previously in this thread. They too were interested in sources.

I provided information for the mod as to where and how I got the information and the mod deleted his post.

Conversely, you certainly have the option to do just what I did to find the information and confirm what I posted. I'm pretty sure I outlined the steps I took earlier in the thread.

I posted what I had gotten so as to provide insight to the original question posed regarding the status of the new franchise in Berlin.

Why the league and or the town hasn't made announcements is still a question worth an answer but I can't provide any information to that point as I didn't ask those questions.

Feel free to contact the Fed league president and ask him.

F1


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## Clinton Comets EHL

Falconone said:


> CE2,
> 
> You may recall that there was a post by a moderator previously in this thread. They too were interested in sources.
> 
> I provided information for the mod as to where and how I got the information and the mod deleted his post.
> 
> Conversely, you certainly have the option to do just what I did to find the information and confirm what I posted. I'm pretty sure I outlined the steps I took earlier in the thread.
> 
> I posted what I had gotten so as to provide insight to the original question posed regarding the status of the new franchise in Berlin.
> 
> Why the league and or the town hasn't made announcements is still a question worth an answer but I can't provide any information to that point as I didn't ask those questions.
> 
> Feel free to contact the Fed league president and ask him.
> 
> F1




_*Why the league and or the town hasn't made announcements is still a question worth an answer but I can't provide any information to that point as I didn't ask those questions.*_

Great point. Thank you for the footwork. Why haven't they? All it does is lead to speculation. It is getting really late to PROPERLY market the team, sell tickets....etc.


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## No Fun Shogun

Not quite yet a slam dunk, but does sound like the ground work's in place for a team. For the time being, let's just consider it on the same level as with Portland and the NHL. Interest, but nothing definitive... yet.


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## Nightsquad

CrazyEddie20 said:


> Unacceptable. Until you name sources, it's speculation regardless of which moderator "vetted" your "information."




Sources cannot always be named. Sometimes monitors do not properly vet said sources, many use it to their advantage to "break" news. [mod] For fan by the fans....


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## Bigfreedy

Where is the schedule? Isnt that needed anytime soon?


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## Falconone

*To All - Clarification*

By way of explanation and hopefully clarification, when asked by the MOD, NFS re: sources I did provide him the name of the source.

I explained to him my reasons for my inquiry, which are personal, and the name of the town official I contacted. I also gave him additional details I haven't posted such as the name of the team I was given.

I didn't post the source here because I didn't ask for their permission to do so. It was a courtesy and one which everyone deserves to my thinking.

As for why I didn't provide some details I believed, and still do, that it is the league and town's perogative to make the announcement when and how they see fit. Not mine. 

There are many questions and reasons as to why they may not make an announcement or even that the town may have made some announcement that has gone unpublished.

I don't know much else. But I do know that the town official said that the town was doing, or has done, everything they need to do. His words not mine.

I only posted what I did in order to provide information based on the OP's post. I have no position or opinion as to the viability of this franchise, the league or opinion voiced by other posters. 

It's just information, do with it what you will.

If you choose to, you can do exactly what I did with only a couple of calls.

F1


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## TheBusiness

Falconone said:


> If you choose to, you can do exactly what I did with only a couple of calls.
> 
> F1




But that takes a little effort.

Folks would rather sit around lazily, hear information then chastise those who do get the info.


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## Falconone

*small change*



AHLFAN said:


> Just checked the FHL website. Was checking the teams list to see if Berlin had chosen a name yet. Berlin has been removed from the teams list. Looks like this joke of a league is at it again.




Apparently the league has returned the the Berlin franchise to the pull down menu referred to in the original post. Not sure what it means but it is some progress lol

F1


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## Bigfreedy

The Berlin team will be a power in the league. On and off the ice. The current league owners need to realize that the league needs a new direction. The direction they have been going is backwards. Four years of nothing. Any half legitimate team who wants to join the current owners should have the red carpet rolled out for them. Danbury ownership should kiss their tushy. The rivalry could be huge. Berlin is the original HockeyTown USA. They might even put the crossed goalie sticks back at the foot of town. Whoever thought of bringing hockey back to Berlin is as sharp as a tack. The marblehead owners who control things better realize what they have here. 
The arena is getting a facelift and the league would get one in kind. A change for the better. Then work on the leagues talent level. Get rid of the dregs and nepotism. Run things as legitimately as possible at that level.


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## ForsbergForever

Bigfreedy said:


> The Berlin team will be a power in the league. On and off the ice. The current league owners need to realize that the league needs a new direction. The direction they have been going is backwards. Four years of nothing. Any half legitimate team who wants to join the current owners should have the red carpet rolled out for them. Danbury ownership should kiss their tushy. The rivalry could be huge. Berlin is the original HockeyTown USA. They might even put the crossed goalie sticks back at the foot of town. Whoever thought of bringing hockey back to Berlin is as sharp as a tack. The marblehead owners who control things better realize what they have here.
> The arena is getting a facelift and the league would get one in kind. A change for the better. Then work on the leagues talent level. Get rid of the dregs and nepotism. Run things as legitimately as possible at that level.




I doubt a town of 10,000 people could be that influential in anything, let alone the cornerstone of a theoretically pro hockey league, but your enthusiasm is admirable...


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## Bigfreedy

ForsbergForever said:


> I doubt a town of 10,000 people could be that influential in anything, let alone the cornerstone of a theoretically pro hockey league, but your enthusiasm is admirable...



Thanks for the compliment. Chutzpa is my middle name. There are more hockey fans in that little 10,000 pop. town than Danville, Dayton, and SWPA combined. Enthusiasm + common sense = Berlin, NH.


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## Falconone

*Fron Fed League facebook page*

Here's the post from the Federal Hockey League Facebook page:

_*The Federal Hockey League is proud to announce that the expansion franchise in Berlin, NH have announced their name as the Berlin RiverDrivers. 

Their name was decided by a fan contest and announced at the local ATV Festival. The name has regional significance, as the term "riverdriver" was given to men that guided logs down the Androscoggin River to transport them for economical use. 

Official website, logo, social media, ticket prices, and other important announcements will be coming soon.*_

F1


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## No Fun Shogun

Best of luck to the new team. I don't have high expectations for the FHL, but would like to see them turn a corner.


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## Nightsquad

I smell Lewiston again as possible location.....


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## Falconone

*maybe*

NS,

I'm checking with a friend in Maine on ownership. It's and interesting idea but I think the Q franchise didn't succeed for what I thought was lack of attendance issues. Cost to run that rink might prohibit success for a pro franchise. Even though the costs for a Fed league franchise might be low the Major Junior costs might be comparable.

As I recall the Q team even won a championship while there.

Like Berlin NH there is a strong French/Canadian population there .

It's possible it's a large facility and would be great for a Fed League franchise if they could draw well enough.

F1


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## Falconone

*update*

Just heard back from friend in Maine. The managing partner of the AHL Portland Pirates also has ownership interest in Lewiston rink. Pirates also played several games there in the past. He also confirmed that the Q team left due to revenue problems and costs

So it might not be a financial set up that would make a Fed team successful

F1


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## wildcat48

F1,

Sorry to say that the information from your friend is very incorrect… Pirates ownership do have anything to do with the Colisee at all other than renting ice time for its youth hockey program. The Colisee is owned by Firland Management, which is owned by Jim Cain. That may have confused your friend because the majority owner of the Pirates is Ron Cain. They have the same last name, but there is no relationship between either people. 

Also, the FHL attempted Lewiston once before and it was a disaster because people didn’t accept the level of hockey for its goonish/phony appearance and they didn’t accept it because it came on the heels of the Maineiacs leaving and there was still a lot of hurt feelings.

Plus, the Colisee already has a fulltime tenant right now with the Maine Timberwolves of the NSHL. They signed a long term lease agreement last month to play at the Colisee.


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## Falconone

*Mmmmm*



wildcat48 said:


> F1,
> 
> Sorry to say that the information from your friend is very incorrectâ€¦ Pirates ownership do have anything to do with the Colisee at all other than renting ice time for its youth hockey program. The Colisee is owned by Firland Management, which is owned by Jim Cain. That may have confused your friend because the majority owner of the Pirates is Ron Cain. They have the same last name, but there is no relationship between either people.
> 
> Also, the FHL attempted Lewiston once before and it was a disaster because people didnâ€™t accept the level of hockey for its goonish/phony appearance and they didnâ€™t accept it because it came on the heels of the Maineiacs leaving and there was still a lot of hurt feelings.
> 
> Plus, the Colisee already has a fulltime tenant right now with the Maine Timberwolves of the NSHL. They signed a long term lease agreement last month to play at the Colisee.





To be clear, I was responding to the poster who suggested earlier in this thread that there was a possibility that the Colisee might be a possible site for a FED team. The thrust of my comments was to suggest that a Fed franchise would NOT succeed there as the Q franchise couldn't make a financial go of things. 

The Timberwolves are the old Maine Moose team that couldn't draw 100 fans and the new owner was advertising on Craigslist for investors offering a 25% return. The NSHL is a far cry from the level of hockey that the Mainiacs were and are likely to fail quickly.

The new owner was also stating he was going to completely revamp the team and get a lot of new players. He then proceeded to call almost every player on the old Maine Moose team that was eligible to return and ask them to come back. SO judge for yourself about the potential for success.

As for Ron Cain and Jim Cain, they may NOT be related but to suggest Ron Cain isn't involved with the Colisee isn't correct. See below a copy from a recent publication about the new ownership of the Colisee.

*Colisee Owner and General Manager Jim Cain asked for city approval to add investor Ron Cain, who has no relation to Jim, to the company. *


As for your comments about the level of play in the FED well everyone has an opinion and you are entitled to yours, but to suggest that the Timberwolves are a better product (ergo implying they will succeed where the Q and previous teams have ) is disingenuous and frankly not based in any fact. I have seen the Timberwolves ( as the Maine Moose) play, I have seen the Mainiacs play and I have seen Fed level play ( tryout for free agents which had 3-5 Danbury players skating)

So I don't see the Fed going to the Colisee which was my original point of my response.

F1

PS: see follow on post from Berkshire Eagle......


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## Falconone

*ok GUYS MORE FODDER*

Please see link below (I know how important PROOF is to some here) regarding the FED and team in North Adams. May well explain why there as been so little information concerning Berlin from FED or in the news.

http://www.berkshireeagle.com/sport...rest-north-adams-franchise?source=most_viewed

If link doesn't click, copy and paste to browser I guess. But clearly the plot thickens.

F1


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## wildcat48

Falconone said:


> To be clear, I was responding to the poster who suggested earlier in this thread that there was a possibility that the Colisee might be a possible site for a FED team. The thrust of my comments was to suggest that a Fed franchise would NOT succeed there as the Q franchise couldn't make a financial go of things.
> 
> The Timberwolves are the old Maine Moose team that couldn't draw 100 fans and the new owner was advertising on Craigslist for investors offering a 25% return. The NSHL is a far cry from the level of hockey that the Mainiacs were and are likely to fail quickly.
> 
> The new owner was also stating he was going to completely revamp the team and get a lot of new players. He then proceeded to call almost every player on the old Maine Moose team that was eligible to return and ask them to come back. SO judge for yourself about the potential for success.
> 
> As for Ron Cain and Jim Cain, they may NOT be related but to suggest Ron Cain isn't involved with the Colisee isn't correct. See below a copy from a recent publication about the new ownership of the Colisee.
> 
> *Colisee Owner and General Manager Jim Cain asked for city approval to add investor Ron Cain, who has no relation to Jim, to the company. *
> 
> 
> As for your comments about the level of play in the FED well everyone has an opinion and you are entitled to yours, but to suggest that the Timberwolves are a better product (ergo implying they will succeed where the Q and previous teams have ) is disingenuous and frankly not based in any fact. I have seen the Timberwolves ( as the Maine Moose) play, I have seen the Mainiacs play and I have seen Fed level play ( tryout for free agents which had 3-5 Danbury players skating)
> 
> So I don't see the Fed going to the Colisee which was my original point of my response.
> 
> F1
> 
> PS: see follow on post from Berkshire Eagle......




I know what the articles say. Iâ€™ve written many of them for both the Sun Journal and Maine Hockey Journal, but Iâ€™m telling you that Ron Cain does not own any portion of the Coliseeâ€¦ He was working on purchasing a stake in the building, but it fell through last season and thatâ€™s why the Portland Junior Pirates USPHL team pulled its plan to play at Colisee and why the Timberwolves are there now.

Iâ€™ve been covering this story for several years and Iâ€™ve spoken with both Ron and Jim Cain about why the deal fell through. The reason is not for public consumption because it involves a minority investor in the building, but there is no animosity between them.

Thatâ€™s itâ€¦ 

Iâ€™m going to argue the validity of the Timberwolves vs. the FHLâ€¦. Iâ€™m telling you fans here did not accept the FHL and it showed in the attendance figures. People donâ€™t want the FHL â€“ at least in its current form â€“ in Lewiston. The Timberwolves are the former Maine Moose and yes they hardly drew, but itâ€™s not a league that relies on a gate to survive. Jim Cainâ€™s Firland Management works with the NSHL at several rinks they own and manage so whether Lewiston has an attendance of 50 people or 500 people it wonâ€™t really matter.


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## Falconone

*I dunno*

WC,
'
You seem intent on making a point that would appear that you've somehow concluded that I was representing that an FHL team might be in the offing for the Colisee.

THAT IS MOST DEFINATELY NOT THE CASE ! As I stated in my previous post. We are in agreement that the Colisee wouldn't be a location for FHL team albeit for what might be different reasons underlying the conclusion. Your's apparently that the FED product was unacceptable to the Lewiston fans because it was a bad product. MY apologies if that's not your position. Mine being that even with a top notch product of a Major Junior team there wasn't enough sustained interest.

As for the Timberwolves, you view of success being that they are self sustaining due to collecting 'tuition' from players that should cover the costs is correct. 

However, my view, of success is more involved. Success starts with honesty, and I gave two examples that suggested that the new ownership was being less than honest. 

Success also depends on developing players and moving them on to college rosters. Too many owners and coaches forget that aspect of their roles at that level of Juniors.

But getting an opportunity to play in college is why so many players opt for playing Tier III Junior hockey. IE: Pay for play hockey. 

Lastly, success, which is tied into player success, is winning games and developing a winning program.

At Tier III recruiting players requires an ability to get players from a wide range of places, especially non-traditional hockey markets and overseas. Nothing I know about the current Timberwolves ownership and team management suggest that they engender the respect that those types of relationships require. 

As for Ron Cain's ownership interest, on December 28 the city council approved his buying an interest in the Colisee. Firland Mgt, was obligated to seek and get approval based on it's contract/agreement with the City. That's what I posted in previous reference to an article.

While I'm not contending that RC does or doesn't own a piece of the Colisee, the substance of your argument seems to be as follows, in substance:

_don't believe what other writers say, ignore previously reported stories because I know better or more than they do..........._

Seems a tad like the Wizard in the Land of Oz suggesting that we "ignore the man behind the curtain" LOL 

That said, I'm sure you are right and I couldn't care less.

Lastly, and more importantly, I don't care about Ron Cain, if he does or doesn't have an interest in the Colisee. I have been interested, for my own reasons, in seeing that any information regarding the OP question about the Berlin franchise of the FHL is reported to any who are interested in knowing such information.

As I've said earlier in this post and I'll repeat again for the purposes of journalistic clarity, I WAS NOT INTENDING TO IMPLY, SUGGEST OR IN ANY OTHER WAY POSSIBLE THAT A FED TEAM FRANCHISE COULD OR WOULD SUCCEED IN THE COLISEE!

Hope that's clear enough. LOL

F1


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## Chitownshooter

Falconone, any new info on wether there will be a team in berlin or north Adams this season ? 

For players looking to play there this needs to be resolved quickly


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## Falconone

*info*

No more info, the Berkshire Eagle article suggested that Kirnan, the FED commissioner, indicated in some fashion that it would be quick decision. Sometime this coming week.

I usually type in a search for the Federal Hockey League look for news updates on the league.

You are right about players needing info quickly.

Will post when I hear something 

F1


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## wildcat48

Falconone said:


> WC,
> '
> You seem intent on making a point that would appear that you've somehow concluded that I was representing that an FHL team might be in the offing for the Colisee.
> 
> THAT IS MOST DEFINATELY NOT THE CASE ! As I stated in my previous post. We are in agreement that the Colisee wouldn't be a location for FHL team albeit for what might be different reasons underlying the conclusion. Your's apparently that the FED product was unacceptable to the Lewiston fans because it was a bad product. MY apologies if that's not your position. Mine being that even with a top notch product of a Major Junior team there wasn't enough sustained interest.
> 
> As for the Timberwolves, you view of success being that they are self sustaining due to collecting 'tuition' from players that should cover the costs is correct.
> 
> However, my view, of success is more involved. Success starts with honesty, and I gave two examples that suggested that the new ownership was being less than honest.
> 
> Success also depends on developing players and moving them on to college rosters. Too many owners and coaches forget that aspect of their roles at that level of Juniors.
> 
> But getting an opportunity to play in college is why so many players opt for playing Tier III Junior hockey. IE: Pay for play hockey.
> 
> Lastly, success, which is tied into player success, is winning games and developing a winning program.
> 
> At Tier III recruiting players requires an ability to get players from a wide range of places, especially non-traditional hockey markets and overseas. Nothing I know about the current Timberwolves ownership and team management suggest that they engender the respect that those types of relationships require.
> 
> As for Ron Cain's ownership interest, on December 28 the city council approved his buying an interest in the Colisee. Firland Mgt, was obligated to seek and get approval based on it's contract/agreement with the City. That's what I posted in previous reference to an article.
> 
> While I'm not contending that RC does or doesn't own a piece of the Colisee, the substance of your argument seems to be as follows, in substance:
> 
> _don't believe what other writers say, ignore previously reported stories because I know better or more than they do..........._
> 
> Seems a tad like the Wizard in the Land of Oz suggesting that we "ignore the man behind the curtain" LOL
> 
> That said, I'm sure you are right and I couldn't care less.
> 
> Lastly, and more importantly, I don't care about Ron Cain, if he does or doesn't have an interest in the Colisee. I have been interested, for my own reasons, in seeing that any information regarding the OP question about the Berlin franchise of the FHL is reported to any who are interested in knowing such information.
> 
> As I've said earlier in this post and I'll repeat again for the purposes of journalistic clarity, I WAS NOT INTENDING TO IMPLY, SUGGEST OR IN ANY OTHER WAY POSSIBLE THAT A FED TEAM FRANCHISE COULD OR WOULD SUCCEED IN THE COLISEE!
> 
> Hope that's clear enough. LOL
> 
> F1



Nothing Wizard of Oz here.... Just letting you know that Ron Cain has no ownership role in the Colisee. The rest of it doesn't really matter to me either.


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## Falconone

*info2*



Chitownshooter said:


> Falconone, any new info on wether there will be a team in berlin or north Adams this season ?
> 
> For players looking to play there this needs to be resolved quickly




Apparently it's official. Explains why there hasn't been more info from league and announcements concerning schedule etc.

See link below:

http://danburywhalers.pointstreaksi...alers-news-2/danbury-whalers-news/news_170524

F1


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## Francis10

Berlin no more, and now Berkshire Battalion are in their place. So is this team owned by the FHL then? 

On a side note, whats up with these new teams logos that look like they were designed in Microsoft Paint? SW PA Magic and now Berkshire Battalion. Have a contest or something to design the logos/jerseys. Get some fans behind these teams and some exposure.


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## LadyStanley

Yes. FHL presser:



> *Berkshire Battalion Announced as * *6th Federal Hockey League Team*​
> *Syracuse, NY -* The Federal Hockey League is proud to announce the 6th team for the 2014-15 hockey season. The club will be located in North Adams, Massachusetts and will play out of the Peter W. Foote Vietnam Veterans Memorial Skating Rink.
> 
> The team will be called the Berkshire Battalion. Team colors are red, white, & blue.
> 
> The Battalion will play a 56 game schedule. Following the regular season, there will be a 2-round playoff with the eventual champion being crowned in a best of 5 series.
> 
> Fans interested in team information and tickets can check out the Berkshire Battalion Facebook page or call 973-713-7547 or email to hsorcher@berkshirebattalion.com
> 
> In the coming week the team will be releasing information on ticket packages & pricing, fundraising opportunities, sponsorship, and the Head Coach.
> 
> North Adams is a city with a population of 13,700 and is considered part of the Pittsfield Metropolitan area which has 44,000 residents. North Adams is located in Berkshire County with a population of 130,000 and is on the western side of Massachusetts.
> 
> The Peter W. Foote Skating Rink is named for a North Adams native who died in battle in Vietnam in 1968. Foote posthumously earned the Purple Heart and Silver Medal. Capacity in the building is 1,050 with 800 seats and 250 standing room.
> 
> Darin Lane, Rink Manager at Peter Foote commented, "We are very enthusiastic about the Battalion coming to town. We are looking forward to our first Federal Hockey League season and many more to come."
> 
> North Adams is located 132 miles from Danbury (CT) and 214 miles from Watertown (NY).
> 
> Similar to Danbury, North Adams is also home to a New England Collegiate Baseball League franchise.
> 
> The Berkshire team is owned by Federal Hockey League Board of Governors. The contact person for the Battalion is Herm Sorcher. He can be reached by phone at 973-713-7547 and email at hsorcher@berkshirebattalion.com. Sorcher is part of the ownership group of the Danbury Whalers hockey team.
> 
> Following the Federal Hockey League Annual Meeting in July, it was announced the league would be fielding a team in Berlin, New Hampshire. The league had also previously reviewed an application for North Adams from an outside ownership group. While Berlin is still a valuable market and venue, it was re-evaluated that the overall better fit for the FHL was a more centrally located team in North Adams with initial league ownership.
> 
> FHL Commissioner, Don Kirnan stated, "The community is excited for this team. Next week we are going to be announcing a major partner coming on board. The community leaders are making a statement that they want this team and they want it to be here for a long time."
> 
> Entering its 5
> th season of operation, the Federal Hockey League is one of six professional leagues in the United States. The FHL has promoted over 150 players to various other professional leagues including the AHL, ECHL, CHL, & European Leagues. The FHL currently has teams located in Danbury (CT), Dayton (OH), Watertown (NY), Danville (IL), and Southwestern Western Pennsylvania. Last season over 100,000 fans watched FHL action live. Check out the league at
> www.federalhockey.com


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## wildcat48

Cue the Benny Hill music... The sooner this league dies the better. The people managing this league have no clue what they're doing and its killing any hope to ever build a viable single-A level hockey league in the northeast.


----------



## Falconone

"The Timberwolves are the old Maine Moose team that couldn't draw 100 fans and the new owner was advertising on Craigslist for investors offering a 25% return. The NSHL is a far cry from the level of hockey that the Mainiacs were and are likely to fail quickly.

The new owner was also stating he was going to completely revamp the team and get a lot of new players. He then proceeded to call almost every player on the old Maine Moose team that was eligible to return and ask them to come back. SO judge for yourself about the potential for success."



[/QUOTE]http://mainehockeyjournal.com/?p=21018

F1

see links below for updates........ for those interested......


http://thefederalhockeyleague.pointstreaksites.com/view/thefederalhockeyleague/news-739/news_170529



http://thefederalhockeyleague.pointstreaksites.com/view/thefederalhockeyleague/news-739/news_171599


F1

Lets hope that Massachusetts politics doesn't affect things..... one would hope that the DCR would be on board but it is Massachusetts so........................


While the Battalion was able to announce its coach, it was not ready on Wednesday to announce for sure that it will have a place to play. The franchise still is waiting for the official go-ahead from the Massachusetts Department of Conservation and Recreation, which owns the North Adams rink.

F1

here's the link
http://www.iberkshires.com/story/47...als-Meet-Hockey-Fans.html?source=sports_block

and from the Berkshire eagle:

http://www.berkshireeagle.com/sport...hockey-team-coach-introduced-north-adams.html


----------



## wildcat48

Falconone said:


> "The Timberwolves are the old Maine Moose team that couldn't draw 100 fans and the new owner was advertising on Craigslist for investors offering a 25% return. The NSHL is a far cry from the level of hockey that the Mainiacs were and are likely to fail quickly.
> 
> The new owner was also stating he was going to completely revamp the team and get a lot of new players. He then proceeded to call almost every player on the old Maine Moose team that was eligible to return and ask them to come back. SO judge for yourself about the potential for success."



http://mainehockeyjournal.com/?p=21018

F1[/QUOTE]
I know what's in the story... I wrote it.


----------



## Falconone

*confirmed my point*



wildcat48 said:


> http://mainehockeyjournal.com/?p=21018
> 
> F1



I know what's in the story... I wrote it.[/QUOTE]

Yes you did and the report confirmed my point........ which was the point of my earlier post !


----------



## Falconone

*and......*

Perusing the Fed web site rosters it appears that the SWPA complete roster has been waived or released. No listing for Director of Hockey Operations. Heard through grapevine that the ownership backed out and players are looking to move to other teams.

F1


----------



## Sidly

So the FHL just retweeted someone saying they are announcing a new owner of "Steel City Warriors". I am going to guess they found a new owner very quickly.


----------



## Francis10

Seen on Twitter new owner possibly found. Team now called Steel City Warriors.


----------



## Sidly

Just read an article saying SWPA membership has been revoked.

http://www.wwnytv.com/sports/Federal-Hockey-League-One-Team-Smaller-279884762.html


----------



## Falconone

*SOooooooo is it Slap Shot redeux?*

Twitter feed in the same link as the one about finding a 'new owner' suggested that a " lady from Florida " was buying the team....... sound familiar ? ? ?

Somebody pirate the script from Slap Shot movie and replaying it for ****s *[mod]* and giggles?

Don't know anything for fact so it may be true that they've found a new owner but the "Steel City" reference sounds ominously close to the Pittsburgh Steelers super bowl teams.......

It seems to me the league needs to get in front of this quickly.

I'm just hearing that there are players trying to find spot on other league teams and that's not consistent with the team getting new ownership and starting up again.

F1


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

wildcat48 said:


> Nothing Wizard of Oz here.... Just letting you know that Ron Cain has no ownership role in the Colisee. The rest of it doesn't really matter to me either.




FYI, The Colisee has no hockey tenant, wildcat, the Timberwolves defaulted their 1st payment to the NSJHL and the league terminated the rights as of 9/18/14.


----------



## Sidly

I talked to the Warriors goalie and he said new owner and name.


----------



## Falconone

*huh?*

Sid, 

Which goalie are you referring to? Are you using the new team name when you say 'warriors'? Could you please clarify. 

Thanks

F1


----------



## Falconone

*update*

There's an announcement on the Federal hockey league web site introducing the new owner of the PA area franchise. 

F1

PS. Sid's info is accurate


----------



## Sidly

Falconone said:


> There's an announcement on the Federal hockey league web site introducing the new owner of the PA area franchise.
> 
> F1
> 
> PS. Sid's info is accurate




His twitter is ISYMFS32

and thank you sir


----------



## Francis10

Looks like the Steel City Warriors are somewhat competitive. I thought they were going to get smoked.

Now can we please get them some matching gear and jerseys for next game?


----------



## Falconone

*still early*

Not judging them, at this stage ( only two games) but they are being out shot 105 to 55 and outscored 13 to 7. It's a long season so it's too early to judge what the end result will look like. It's too early especially a team that's gone through what they've been through the past weeks.

F1


----------



## JungleJON

Well the Steel City team was supposed to play their home opener last night and have seen nothing reported on the game. Does anyone know if the game took place or why it didn't?
No score listed on the FHL site or anywhere else I have looked.


----------



## JackalsKnuckles

SenorChifles said:


> Well the Steel City team was supposed to play their home opener last night and have seen nothing reported on the game. Does anyone know if the game took place or why it didn't?
> No score listed on the FHL site or anywhere else I have looked.




According to their Twitter page the game was played and they lost in OT. 

https://twitter.com/FHLWarriors


----------



## arlingtonway

there facebook page has been very active with updates from their games this past weekend. Even a few pictures

LINK


----------



## JungleJON

JackalsKnuckles said:


> According to their Twitter page the game was played and they lost in OT.
> 
> https://twitter.com/FHLWarriors




If you got to the FHL's website it shows they played IN DAYTON on Friday night LOST 9-1. Then the same two teams were scheduled to play the next night for Steel City's FIRST HOME GAME - nothing listed. Then the same two teams played IN DAYTON on Sunday where the score was 5-4.

They have not played any home games as of yet.
That was my question.
Why did they not play in PA on Saturday night.
No mention of it anywhere, newspaper articles, FHL website etc.


----------



## SPIDER1

SenorChifles said:


> If you got to the FHL's website it shows they played IN DAYTON on Friday night LOST 9-1. Then the same two teams were scheduled to play the next night for Steel City's FIRST HOME GAME - nothing listed. Then the same two teams played IN DAYTON on Sunday where the score was 5-4.
> 
> They have not played any home games as of yet.
> That was my question.
> Why did they not play in PA on Saturday night.
> No mention of it anywhere, newspaper articles, FHL website etc.




Not sure why the FHL has no box score, but it was played. Dayton won 6-5 in OT. Here is a radio archive of the game: http://www.gemcitysports.com/1182014-demonz-at-steel-city-fhl-hockey/

Also, you can scroll down to a game topic on the FHL Fans Facebook page, where some photos have been provided showing game pics: https://www.facebook.com/groups/388248094549819


----------



## JungleJON

OK - that is what I was trying to find out. Their site (FHL) still has them not playing any home games and the local paper had nothing on the game.
Thanks for the links.


----------



## Hockey headache

*Why is the FHL such a mess*

Does anyone here know just how bad the players are treated in this league? These guys rarely even get paid


----------



## Killion

Hockey headache said:


> Does anyone here know just how bad the players are treated in this league? These guys rarely even get paid




*Welcome to hf* ...... You have some examples, reports or anecdotal inf to share?


----------



## CrazyEddie20

Here's a start:

http://thefhltruth.blogspot.com/


----------



## Clinton Comets EHL

CrazyEddie20 said:


> Here's a start:
> 
> http://thefhltruth.blogspot.com/




Interesting.


----------



## Killion

*^^^^* Wow. I mean, what can ya say? Beyond appalling.


----------



## Hockey headache

I do know that the guys in Danville this season had their checks held as "deposits" and they had to drive their personal vehicles to roadies in watertown. They have guys living in welfare housing. It's disgusting


----------



## suitcase

private message me for details about the fed


----------



## Francis10

So rumour has it the Steel City Warriors may be close to folding due to lack of fans/money. Paid attendance under 100 for last 2 home games. Sad to see as the new owner seems to care about the players and making it work in south west PA.


----------



## JMCx4

And the recurring answer is ... Yes ... *Cornwall Nationals Cease Operations*


----------



## Cardiac Jerks

JMCx4 said:


> And the recurring answer is ... Yes ... *Cornwall Nationals Cease Operations*




Just moved their recently and was going to check out some games. Bummer. Started looking through the history of the league and going through old rosters on hockeydb and ended up killing an hour digging around. Some interesting history. Couldn’t believe Dagenais played in Akwesasne.


----------



## JMCx4

OK, make that 5-1/2 teams ...


> *STATE OF THE FEDERAL: Here Come The (Northern) Feds!*
> 
> A mere day after the penultimate financial collapse of the Cornwall Nationals, the Federal Hockey League has brought back their filler solution to finish out the season.
> 
> Well under the radar throughout the course of the day – and discovered by Papa Rovitz around noon – now in the Teams section on the FHL website are the Northern Federals. This is the second time in Federal League history that a league-operated franchise has been in operation (Delaware Federals, 2011).
> 
> The Federals have only five games scheduled for their nearly two month existence…all road games against the Watertown Wolves, to finish out the Wolves home scheduled games (2/23, 3/23 & 3/24, 4/6 & 4/7). All the Nationals home games are forfeited-wins for the other five FHL teams. ...
> 
> *Read more at:* HotSprotsTakes.com


----------



## Jumptheshark

Shocked this league is still going

I think only one original team can claim to still be in opperation from 2010


----------



## Daniel119

The SPHL and FHL Should Merge


----------



## Captain Crash

Daniel119 said:


> The SPHL and FHL Should Merge




Good point. Nothing will help grow the relatively stable SPHL better than taking on a bunch of financially insolvent franchises with a penchant for folding, mostly owned by the same guy, comprised of lower quality players playing mostly in rec rinks with crowds that are a fraction of the SPHL average attendance in markets that are geographically nowhere near the league's current footprint operating on much lower budgets. This should work.


----------



## lennysundahl

Captain Crash said:


> Good point. Nothing will help grow the relatively stable SPHL better than taking on a bunch of financially insolvent franchises with a penchant for folding, mostly owned by the same guy, comprised of lower quality players playing mostly in rec rinks with crowds that are a fraction of the SPHL average attendance in markets that are geographically nowhere near the league's current footprint operating on much lower budgets. This should work.



Not to mention that said owner is, as far as I'm aware, persona non grata in the SPHL. There's really only one team that has remotely the level of support from a fan/sponsor level to sustain at least a season in the SPHL: amazingly, the stickiest tomato they've managed to throw has been at the longtime minor league hockey graveyard at Winston-Salem. And even then, while 2000 fans/game is lightyears ahead of what the FHL typically draws, it would still bring up the rear in the SPHL...


----------



## CrazyEddie20

Captain Crash said:


> Good point. Nothing will help grow the relatively stable SPHL better than taking on a bunch of financially insolvent franchises with a penchant for folding, mostly owned by the same guy, comprised of lower quality players playing mostly in rec rinks with crowds that are a fraction of the SPHL average attendance in markets that are geographically nowhere near the league's current footprint operating on much lower budgets. This should work.




Post of the year.


----------



## Dingo44

Great article.

State of the Federal (Address): On Brand with Scott Brand​


----------



## JDogindy

Dingo44 said:


> Great article.
> 
> State of the Federal (Address): On Brand with Scott Brand​




Wow. What a well written article, complete with poor spelling, ignorance with itallics, and being purely a hype machine.

Look, aside from Port Huron, there's no stability, and "750-1000 average" is a pretty crummy attendance goal that can only be achieved by slashing money elsewhere.


----------



## Dingo44

JDogindy said:


> Wow. What a well written article, complete with poor spelling, ignorance with itallics, and being purely a hype machine.
> 
> Look, aside from Port Huron, there's no stability, and "750-1000 average" is a pretty crummy attendance goal that can only be achieved by slashing money elsewhere.




Sure dude. Brand is pretty honest about the good and the bad, and his wants and expectations are realistic. I've been able to enjoy some great hockey at FHL games in multiple locations and I'm honest about what it is but see a lot of potential. But if you're all caught up with a GM firing up the "hype machine" for his own league then by all means...

And by the way - have you been to a Thunderbirds game? They're a blast. Way more fun than the morgue in Raleigh. I'm a Sabres fan first and an NHL fan second but until the Canes rebuild their fan base the Birds are a better deal and a much better time.


----------



## Atlantian

I found this article and it looks like the FHL plans to directly compete with the SPHL

SOURCES: FHL Focus Full-Tilt Shifting South


----------



## JMCx4

Atlantian said:


> I found this article and it looks like the FHL plans to directly compete with the SPHL
> 
> SOURCES: FHL Focus Full-Tilt Shifting South



If nothing else, that Bus League Hockey guy sure has a lot of spunk & a *lot* of time on his hands.


----------



## lennysundahl

It's a couple guys in different time zones, so that helps. But yeah they've just been on it lately. Hit or miss on their geographical accuracy sometimes (still can't get over "Louisville has never had hockey") but they're relative kids and they're getting some good info. Yesterday they ran a thing--with jersey mockups--telling how the FHL was angling for Birmingham before the SPHL ended up bringing the Bulls back (over the "BullZ" )


----------



## JMCx4

I guess it's what passes for "journalism" in the 21st Century.


----------



## CrazyEddie20

It's a blog. They likely make no money and definitely have no editors. 

When you're looking for journalism, remember: You get what you pay for.


----------



## Jackets Woodchuck

Atlantian said:


> I found this article and it looks like the FHL plans to directly compete with the SPHL
> 
> SOURCES: FHL Focus Full-Tilt Shifting South




Isn't that like White Castle trying to compete with Five Guys?


----------



## Dingo44

Jackets Woodchuck said:


> Isn't that like White Castle trying to compete with Five Guys?




I like both for different reasons. So kind of appropriate.


----------



## JDogindy

Question: There's no way Port Huron can support anything above FHL, right?


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

JDogindy said:


> Question: There's no way Port Huron can support anything above FHL, right?



based off past history of leagues/ owners? clarify the point, please....


----------



## lennysundahl

Not necessarily. Let's put them next to neighboring Flint, who have shared leagues with Port Huron off and on over the years (and is a city with notable issues, as I'm sure you're all aware). The Generals and IceHawks spent the second IHL together:

2007-08: Flint 2217, Port Huron 1344
2008-09: Flint 1613, Port Huron 1457
2009-10: Flint 1868, Port Huron 1627

Left out in the cold when the IHL was absorbed into the CHL, both cities wound up in low juniors, in the NAHL--the Michigan Warriors and Port Huron Fighting Falcons:

2010-11: Flint 919, Port Huron 682
2011-12: Port Huron 716, Flint 669
2012-13: Flint 1014, Port Huron 620
2013-14: Flint 936, Port Huron 577

Not exactly attendance to set the world on fire. The Falcons folded, replaced by the current Prowlers in 2015, and the fans have taken to the FHL much more than they did to the junior game:

2015-16: 1045
2016-17: 1047
2017-18: 1206

Flint, however, after another season in the NAHL (921/game in 2014-15), managed to secure an OHL team when Peter Karmanos put the Plymouth Whalers up for sale, and the Firebirds' crowds, while not amazing by OHL standards (never higher than 16th of 20 in attendance), haven't been this strong since the Generals' UHL days:

2015-16: 2984
2016-17: 2951
2017-18: 2866

And remember, this is in Flint, which is as much a hell on earth as it's ever been in the last 30 years. It's a simple matter of quality, IMO (ownership notwithstanding, lol).


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

RUMBLINGS are now reporting hockey might be returning to Elmira and First Arena soon.....


----------



## Barclay Donaldson

I also saw that article on Arena Digest. I've heard the NAHL has kicked the tires in the Southern Tier as well to relocate one of their attendance-poor East Division teams. Not completely familiar with the situation, but it would appear that there's an issue with the rink or the lease or something infrastructural that is a repelling some teams. 

Having played Elmira College's D3 team this past season, their home rink (which by itself is a great barn, even though it looks like a golf ball sunk into the ground from outside) is probably 30 minutes north of the college into the wilderness even though they have this arena down the street. If the college isn't even playing games at the arena, there has to be something going on.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Outback Steakhouse said:


> I also saw that article on Arena Digest. I've heard the NAHL has kicked the tires in the Southern Tier as well to relocate one of their attendance-poor East Division teams. Not completely familiar with the situation, but it would appear that there's an issue with the rink or the lease or something infrastructural that is a repelling some teams.
> 
> Having played Elmira College's D3 team this past season, their home rink (which by itself is a great barn, even though it looks like a golf ball sunk into the ground from outside) is probably 30 minutes north of the college into the wilderness even though they have this arena down the street. If the college isn't even playing games at the arena, there has to be something going on.



the arena itself needs structural upgrades, from what I'VE BEEN reading although Robbie Nichols has a standing offer to get a team there if that is done.... nothing I'VE read STATES the NAHL has any interest in Elmira knowing the history of how the Jackals ended or were portayed the last 5 or 6 years before their demise in 2017


----------



## royals119

Outback Steakhouse said:


> I also saw that article on Arena Digest. I've heard the NAHL has kicked the tires in the Southern Tier as well to relocate one of their attendance-poor East Division teams. Not completely familiar with the situation, but it would appear that there's an issue with the rink or the lease or something infrastructural that is a repelling some teams.
> 
> Having played Elmira College's D3 team this past season, their home rink (which by itself is a great barn, even though it looks like a golf ball sunk into the ground from outside) is probably 30 minutes north of the college into the wilderness even though they have this arena down the street. If the college isn't even playing games at the arena, there has to be something going on.



What I was told by the locals when I used to go up for Royals games is that Elmira College originally had a deal in place to play at First Arena, but then backed out. I don't think they ever played games there on a regular basis, so the fact that they aren't there now isn't due to the current state of the arena necessarily.

I believe the biggest issue with the building is replacing the ice making equipment. There were problems with the ice during the last season of the Jackals. There are other smaller issues too, but fixing or replacing the ice making equipment would probably be enough to get a team in the building.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

royals119 said:


> What I was told by the locals when I used to go up for Royals games is that Elmira College originally had a deal in place to play at First Arena, but then backed out. I don't think they ever played games there on a regular basis, so the fact that they aren't there now isn't due to the current state of the arena necessarily.
> 
> I believe the biggest issue with the building is replacing the ice making equipment. There were problems with the ice during the last season of the Jackals. There are other smaller issues too, but fixing or replacing the ice making equipment would probably be enough to get a team in the building.




correct, that's why there's a deadline set by Wednesday, from what I've been reading, Robbie has a standing offer to get a team back in Elmira, provided the arena is up to code from the group that bought First Arena separately and allowed the Jackals to cease ops when they did.... 

on a related note, it seems Richmond is ready to return with a newer or updated version of the Coliseum aka "The Freezer", BUT THAT has been blocked by the Times Dispatch policy of subscriber only.....


----------



## Drake88

Ideally I would love to see Single A hockey at 16 teams max, in only one league. Play would be almost all within your division with the conference winners facing off in the finals and having one league creates a uniform salary cap and set of rules for Single A hockey. No more expanding to community rinks (FHL) and you can look to build off the improvements in play the SPHL has seen in recent years. There is definitely a niche market for this style of hockey in smaller towns and if the league is tight knit geographically it would have a chance. 

North: Elmira, Peoria, Bloomington, Quad City, Richmond, Roanoke, Port Huron, Evansville 
South: Macon, Mississippi, Pensacola, Birmingham, Carolina, Fayetteville, Knoxville, Huntsville

North Backup Markets: Dayton, Chicago, Danbury, St. Charles, Jamestown, Johnstown, Lewiston
South Backup Markets: Columbia, Louisiana, Augusta, Columbus, Laredo, RGV


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Drake88 said:


> Ideally I would love to see Single A hockey at 16 teams max, in only one league. Play would be almost all within your division with the conference winners facing off in the finals and having one league creates a uniform salary cap and set of rules for Single A hockey. No more expanding to community rinks (FHL) and you can look to build off the improvements in play the SPHL has seen in recent years. There is definitely a niche market for this style of hockey in smaller towns and if the league is tight knit geographically it would have a chance.
> 
> North: Elmira, Peoria, Bloomington, Quad City, Richmond, Roanoke, Port Huron, Evansville
> South: Macon, Mississippi, Pensacola, Birmingham, Carolina, Fayetteville, Knoxville, Huntsville
> 
> North Backup Markets: Dayton, Chicago, Danbury, St. Charles, Jamestown, Johnstown, Lewiston
> South Backup Markets: Columbia, Louisiana, Augusta, Columbus, Laredo, RGV




Lewiston has 2 junior franchises, now Drake..... one is aligned with the NA3HL (NAHL) and is called the Nordiques now in its 2nd season and owned by the operators of the Colisee.... the other is the Twin City Thunder, that starts this fall

LA NORDIQUES: Home

Twin City Thunder: Home


----------



## royals119

Drake88 said:


> Ideally I would love to see Single A hockey at 16 teams max, in only one league. Play would be almost all within your division with the conference winners facing off in the finals and having one league creates a uniform salary cap and set of rules for Single A hockey. No more expanding to community rinks (FHL) and you can look to build off the improvements in play the SPHL has seen in recent years. There is definitely a niche market for this style of hockey in smaller towns and if the league is tight knit geographically it would have a chance.
> 
> North: Elmira, Peoria, Bloomington, Quad City, Richmond, Roanoke, Port Huron, Evansville
> South: Macon, Mississippi, Pensacola, Birmingham, Carolina, Fayetteville, Knoxville, Huntsville
> 
> North Backup Markets: Dayton, Chicago, Danbury, St. Charles, Jamestown, Johnstown, Lewiston
> South Backup Markets: Columbia, Louisiana, Augusta, Columbus, Laredo, RGV



Your ideal plan makes a lot of sense, but when it comes to the real world leagues have to make compromises, just as you did with your north division. You say you want a tight geographic footprint, but you have Elmira with five Midwest teams and two southern teams. There isn't another team within a ten hour drive of Elmira and Richmond/Roanoke to those Midwest teams is probably a two day drive. They are both closer to all the South division teams than they are to the north teams. 

If there are enough cities that want hockey that don't fit in the SPHL footprint or don't have the finances to work in that model, why not let them have a semi-pro league like the FHL, where all games are on weekends, costs are super low by playing in rec-rinks, players have other jobs to supplement their income, and they travel in cars or vans instead of busses. They probably won't have sponsors anyway, so keep the front office staff to a couple of part timers.


----------



## JMCx4

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> ... on a related note, it seems Richmond is ready to return with a newer or updated version of the Coliseum aka "The Freezer", BUT THAT has been blocked by the Times Dispatch policy of subscriber only.....



That redevelopment plan has been bouncing around Richmond for many years. It's still a long skate from RFP to replacement.


----------



## CrazyEddie20

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> correct, that's why there's a deadline set by Wednesday, from what I've been reading, Robbie has a standing offer to get a team back in Elmira, provided the arena is up to code from the group that bought First Arena separately and allowed the Jackals to cease ops when they did....
> 
> on a related note, it seems Richmond is ready to return with a newer or updated version of the Coliseum aka "The Freezer", BUT THAT has been blocked by the Times Dispatch policy of subscriber only.....




Yeah, you know, it's really terrible that companies have the audacity to charge for their product.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

JMCx4 said:


> That redevelopment plan has been bouncing around Richmond for many years. It's still a long skate from RFP to replacement.




yup, but it's something new there for that market, after the Renegades/Riverdogs and they do have a group out there lobbying to bring a team back there


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

*WETM 18 has confirmed hockey returns to Elmira for 2018/19.... developing....*


----------



## 210

Apparently links are too hard...
BREAKING: Hockey to return to Elmira for 2018-19 season


----------



## JMCx4

210 said:


> Apparently links are too hard...



You've noticed that to?


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

210 said:


> Apparently links are too hard...
> BREAKING: Hockey to return to Elmira for 2018-19 season



AGAIN, Elmira newspapers/media are kinda hard to link now as is most sources behind paywalls, today.... besides I DON'T RUN THE RISK of having it go against the forum rules if it's not allowed


----------



## 210

It's not against the rules to post on-subject links to any article, nor is it any harder to post links to articles that are subscription only or behind paywalls. It's against the rules to post the article in its entirety no matter the source.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

210 said:


> It's not against the rules to post on-subject links to any article, nor is it any harder to post links to articles that are subscription only or behind paywalls. It's against the rules to post the article in its entirety no matter the source.



believe me, you cannot post links to any newspaper in the Western Tier of New York.... Elmira or Binghamton, are connected and Television is worse in those two markets, that's not Buffalo or Syracuse


----------



## 210

Please name a newspaper you can't post links to...


----------



## royals119

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> believe me, you cannot post links to any newspaper in the Western Tier of New York.... Elmira or Binghamton, are connected and Television is worse in those two markets, that's not Buffalo or Syracuse



You most certainly can post the link. Then, if the paper has a paywall or subscription policy the person who clicks on the link can make their own decision about whether they want to continue. In at least some cases, members on this forum have subscriptions to those papers, or have agreed to whatever policy the paper has in place. You aren't allowed to circumvent that policy by copying a pasting the article here, but you can direct other members to where the information is and let them make their own decisions about that site's policies.


----------



## JMCx4

Y'all're gonna develop carpal tunnel syndrome in this futile attempt.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

royals119 said:


> You most certainly can post the link. Then, if the paper has a paywall or subscription policy the person who clicks on the link can make their own decision about whether they want to continue. In at least some cases, members on this forum have subscriptions to those papers, or have agreed to whatever policy the paper has in place. You aren't allowed to circumvent that policy by copying a pasting the article here, but you can direct other members to where the information is and let them make their own decisions about that site's policies.



royals, it was breaking when it was posted aka 'developing' all Elmira news sources were all running the same article/source.... WETM is absolutely terrible and when the Jackals were in existence you got much better coverage of what was transpiring that led to the demise eventually of the franchise and the saga, believe me, I'VE checked constantly since the story broke that Elmira is a 'go' in the FHL, Binghamton's media is the same way, either they don't bother with that or don't offer said service, whether subscription or paywall based

that is what I'M DOING when I do post


----------



## garnetpalmetto

JMCx4 said:


> Y'all're gonna develop carpal tunnel syndrome in this futile attempt.






CHRDANHUTCH said:


> royals, it was breaking when it was posted aka 'developing' all Elmira news sources were all running the same article/source.... WETM is absolutely terrible and when the Jackals were in existence you got much better coverage of what was transpiring that led to the demise eventually of the franchise and the saga, believe me, I'VE checked constantly since the story broke that Elmira is a 'go' in the FHL, Binghamton's media is the same way, either they don't bother with that or don't offer said service, whether subscription or paywall based
> 
> that is what I'M DOING when I do post




*Again, PLEASE post links backing up claims. I honestly don't know what the difficulty is with that. All we're asking for here is a URL. You don't have to use some "service" through the site, just cut and paste the URL. 
*


----------



## Avsrule2022

How to Copy and Paste a URL | Techwalla.com


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

garnetpalmetto said:


> *Again, PLEASE post links backing up claims. I honestly don't know what the difficulty is with that. All we're asking for here is a URL. You don't have to use some "service" through the site, just cut and paste the URL. *



guess Elmira has no page to link to and most of this is not privy to this forum I don't see Facebook links on here which is where all of this is right now so, NO..... APPARENTLY Elmira discussion is forbidden on this forum


----------



## garnetpalmetto

It's not forbidden. You can post the URL to their Facebook post, you know. Or hey, look here

Hockey returning to Elmira's First Arena?



> The Chemung County Executive's Office says, after a short hiatus, Jackals owner Robbie Nichols has agreed in principle to bring hockey back for the 2018-2019 season.
> 
> The arena hasn’t been used for hockey since the 2016-2017 season.
> 
> The team would be part of the Federal Hockey League.
> 
> The paperwork still has to be signed. And, the IDA has to approve the deal.




Again, I fail to see the difficulty here.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

garnetpalmetto said:


> It's not forbidden. You can post the URL to their Facebook post, you know. Or hey, look here
> 
> Hockey returning to Elmira's First Arena?
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I fail to see the difficulty here.



see, that story wasn't there when it first came out, GP..... and it's more than one source they may say it's done, but if First Arena isn't retrofitted by October then it's not happening

the report that I SAW at the time I referenced had nothing to what the above link said, because as I referenced it is extremely hard to read anything from that region to even link to anything, and I'D RATHER not violate the source rules on copyright material, that's all, it's a preference I'D Rather TRY TO STAY AWAY FROM


----------



## garnetpalmetto

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> see, that story wasn't there when it first came out, GP..... and it's more than one source they may say it's done, but if First Arena isn't retrofitted by October then it's not happening
> 
> the report that I SAW at the time I referenced had nothing to what the above link said, because as I referenced it is extremely hard to read anything from that region to even link to anything, and I'D RATHER not violate the source rules on copyright material, that's all, it's a preference I'D Rather TRY TO STAY AWAY FROM




Let us worry about the source rules on copyright. By providing a link and a short summary or even quote (20 lines or less) you're squarely within fair use because you've A) Attributed the quote and B) Not copied and pasted it wholesale.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

garnetpalmetto said:


> Let us worry about the source rules on copyright. By providing a link and a short summary or even quote (20 lines or less) you're squarely within fair use because you've A) Attributed the quote and B) Not copied and pasted it wholesale.



I cannot promise anything


----------



## Nightsquad

Links this and that, all straw grasping if you ask me. There is enough info to believe something is in the works. This is good for Elmira-Corning, First Arena, but it also helps the FHL retain a NY footprint.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

I would say this is as close to a done deal as you can get. Last night at the Pioneers game they had season ticket forms out for the hockey team. I believe Nichols and the commissioner have some form of a history. For whatever its worth Nichols has had the franchise rights for this FHL team since March 2017 before the Jackals folding was announced. Makes this all seem suspicious. Then the guy who helped him get this deal done was the former right hand man of the county exec who retired this year. Now this guy is not only involved with the IDA but hes the sitting, acting, county exec and is running for the actual seat this fall. The whole thing going on 2 years to this has been nothing but a political powerplay 

As for the league ittself I find it to be just as sketchy as the old AAHL. Dont really care for the ring leader either. Hes surely been around. The ECHL to me grew stale. I wouldnt mind something like the old UHL nut this isnt it. Forget the lack of quality but this league is hardly stable. Not going to sit here and say that I have kept up with it but from what I remember players had to work in season as well as play and they had to find their own way to get to games. This is nothing more than a Wednesday night local beer league. Unfortunately without deep pockets this area is very limited on something that fits.Although im scratching my head that I see theres a Carolina team in the league.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Outback Steakhouse said:


> I also saw that article on Arena Digest. I've heard the NAHL has kicked the tires in the Southern Tier as well to relocate one of their attendance-poor East Division teams. Not completely familiar with the situation, but it would appear that there's an issue with the rink or the lease or something infrastructural that is a repelling some teams.
> 
> Having played Elmira College's D3 team this past season, their home rink (which by itself is a great barn, even though it looks like a golf ball sunk into the ground from outside) is probably 30 minutes north of the college into the wilderness even though they have this arena down the street. If the college isn't even playing games at the arena, there has to be something going on.




Playing there for a $1. They wont find better rent downtown.


----------



## Barclay Donaldson

Did not know that. I think it's the college's facility because we saw basketball players for the college practicing in one of the other domes. Didn't know the rent was $1, and they packed it pretty nicely when we played them too so their setup is too good to move.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> the arena itself needs structural upgrades, from what I'VE BEEN reading although Robbie Nichols has a standing offer to get a team there if that is done.... nothing I'VE read STATES the NAHL has any interest in Elmira knowing the history of how the Jackals ended or were portayed the last 5 or 6 years before their demise in 2017




The demise and the end was ALL political. Im no Afr fanboy but to be honest his exit has me more angry over time. A lot of people were promised a lot of things and when the politicians were screwed over they all balked and only came around when it fit the narrative. They then got a billionaire buddy of the chamber and politicians to buy the thing. He then put in that stupid bar everyone was against. He lost a "lot" of money and to get out of it turned the team over to some dumb board of 20 something random businessmen. They had no fionancial responsibility. The IDA did that. They were to find a buyer within this crtain timeframe. They had them. They just didnt want to take on the debt. The only guy interested was the guy they played last spring. There were problems yes but most of it was politicians sticking their nose where it doesnt belong.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

royals119 said:


> What I was told by the locals when I used to go up for Royals games is that Elmira College originally had a deal in place to play at First Arena, but then backed out. I don't think they ever played games there on a regular basis, so the fact that they aren't there now isn't due to the current state of the arena necessarily.
> 
> I believe the biggest issue with the building is replacing the ice making equipment. There were problems with the ice during the last season of the Jackals. There are other smaller issues too, but fixing or replacing the ice making equipment would probably be enough to get a team in the building.




Not jut the last season but I think it was 2010 or so they had those rings underneath the ice that had to be pulled,. The middle of the ice had that horrible line down center ice or so the rest of the season. That was about the beginning of the end for that ice. Then the equipment went. Afr was cheap and for years they basically duct taped stuff together down there. I stopped following hardcore after the Afr exit because I suspected Freeman would be no better than Afr and he wasnt, just a friend of the hoity toity power structure of the county and city so it became okay to them that he was as lousy as Afr. The repairs necesary are the biggest hurdle and the cost. I feel like they are giving Nichols a discount. Its almost as if they wont even be calling him arena owner. I think hes omly leasing it or that was his offer last summer anyway. The guy that was lined up to buy it like 16 months ago was going to pay off the debt of the place but was going to do that with necessary repairs and upgrades. The place got a paint job outside but I think the infastructure sucks and could use some real sprucing up along with ice maintenance repairs. This league has to be a joke if you can go from zero to one hundred jn just over three months.


----------



## 210

DEVELOPING: Press Conference to be Held Tuesday at First Arena

[MOD]


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

But will Nichols show unlike the last guy?

Fully expect it to end with more questions remaining than answers given.


----------



## JMCx4

Sports Enthusiast said:


> ... Fully expect it to end with more questions remaining than answers given.



But if the FHL is coming to town, how many questions about the product can be left to ask?


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

JMCx4 said:


> But if the FHL is coming to town, how many questions about the product can be left to ask?




Not on that. On the state of the arena and how they hope they can get everything done in such a short period of time.

The only hockey related question is, is it better to get a team again no mater the level or quality or have no team at all? The biggest lie from the IDA to Nichols on down is how this will boost the local economy. Give it a rest, the arena has been here 18 years and downtown is more dead now than when the arena came in.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

This sounds like an ulotimate trainwreck waiting to happen. 

Professional hockey returns to Elmira's First Arena

A team in North Carolina? At this rate just pony up for the SPHL. I mean they atleast have a team in Virginia.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

I hope they dont get to steal state taxpayer dollars.

Thats a lot of stuff to fix in 3 months. 

A rent of $125 a month? Talk about a charity case. 

Living a pipe dream though. No big acts will come to a 4K arena.


----------



## JMCx4

Sports Enthusiast said:


> ... A team in North Carolina? At this rate just pony up for the SPHL. I mean they at least have a team in Virginia.



Don't turn up your nose at the Carolina Thunderbirds' inclusion in the FHL portfolio. That team's attendance in 2017-18 (2100+ per night) may well have kept the League alive. There were hints that their President/GM has explored membership in the SPHL, but I doubt multi-team owner Barry Soskin (Carolina, Port Huron & Danville) would agree to that move without being promised a similar position of influence.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

JMCx4 said:


> Don't turn up your nose at the Carolina Thunderbirds' inclusion in the FHL portfolio. That team's attendance in 2017-18 (2100+ per night) may well have kept the League alive. There were hints that their President/GM has explored membership in the SPHL, but I doubt multi-team owner Barry Soskin (Carolina, Port Huron & Danville) would agree to that move without being promised a similar position of influence.




Im not knovking, im nitpicking the fact that theres an opponent farther away than SPHL opponents. The geography for theis league is bizarre. NY has 2 teams, North Carolina has a team, Illinois and Michigan. Im sure the news messed up when posting this but they showed there were also teams in Cornwall, which is Ontario, North Shore which ive never heard of and another city I cant think of. The article in the paper says a team is coming to Ohio.

Any time a league has an owner owning multiple teams im skeptical. I also believe Kirnian was involved with the old UHL. Ive read mixed things about Barry Soskin. 

All in all I struggle seeing long term viability for this league.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

If anything today just confirms this was nothing but political. So they are going to let Robbie Nichols lease the arena with the option to buy it at some point. Hes not responsible for the arena debt on the mortgage which is over $3 million. So the Jackals folded and we went a year without hockey and down a level over a finalized deal where basically nothing has changed? Suddenly the broke IDA who was supposedly about out of funds in the spring of 2017 can afford to hang on to the arena? 

Nevermind that Nichols had this FHL franchise acquired before it was announced the Jackals would fold.

Nevermind the county executive is retiring but his right hand man is in control of the IDA and is running in the fall to take his post as county executive. 

I wouldnt be as angry if they werent joining a decent league here...or stable. I feel like this league only lasts as long as Soskin props up 3 teams. Like the Franke's with IHL2.0

Unless Robbie can convince old dudes like Chaz The Spaz Johnson and Frankie Littlejohn or something to come play I cant see this enticing people. In a way its the ECHL argument all over again. Same 5 teams coming in for 29 home games. Its too bad Danbury is no longer in the league.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Im not knovking, im nitpicking the fact that theres an opponent farther away than SPHL opponents. The geography for theis league is bizarre. NY has 2 teams, North Carolina has a team, Illinois and Michigan. Im sure the news messed up when posting this but they showed there were also teams in Cornwall, which is Ontario, North Shore which ive never heard of and another city I cant think of. The article in the paper says a team is coming to Ohio.
> 
> Any time a league has an owner owning multiple teams im skeptical. I also believe Kirnian was involved with the old UHL. Ive read mixed things about Barry Soskin.
> 
> All in all I struggle seeing long term viability for this league.




Cornwall dropped mid year last year, Elmira joins Mentor, Ohio.... SE


----------



## Nightsquad

I see nothing but an opportunity here. Elmira's arena obviously needs some work. Securing a tenant is probably key to getting liberal NYC run state government to give a neglected upstate small city a bone in the form of a grant for modest arena upgrades.

The FHL is likely the best fit for Elmira, the ECHL is heading into larger cities, mostly former AHL cities. The solid SPHL is nowhere in the footprint, and until someone creates a NPHL, a ACHL, or someone willing to invest in a USHL franchise this is Elmira's option at best. This is also a good thing for the FHL. Finally moving in a direction away from rec rinks, and keeping its New York roots.

Lastly, Robbie is a great hockey person. He has also invested his life in that area, establishing roots. He has proven himself not just a family man but a community man, he cares. Robbie knows hockey, and he knows the pulse of the community....I am rooting for Elmira, hope they make the best of this opportunity.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

When Nichols was the GM they were giving free tickets away like hot cakes, I assume this practice has continued with baseball because nobody was going to Pioneers games the last few years they had minor league ball. That was still in the early 2000s. I wasnt around for affiliated ball that ended in the very early 90s. In the late 90s up until the end they went from league to league. I think they were once in the NY PENN league with the last stop being the CAN-AM league. Lack of stability may have hurt or not having affiliated ball may have hurt, not really sure. But I struggle to believe people were finally interested for baseball by watching the idea of Summer Catch. 

How it went down is shady. I question the guys involved here. This deal just adds to the arena debt though since the place will be used but Robbie isnt responsible for paying for it. He has the option to buy it down the road but I cant see anyone ever wanting the debt. One guy was willing and was pushed aside. 

Havent kept up with the FHL but they used to play in rec rinks exclusively I believe. The players were also responsible for their own means of transportation for games and they had jobs. Yeah, UHL, ECHL, CHL and maybe even some AHL guys had jobs but those were in the summer not in season so they were focused on hockey. Every city wants a winning or tolerable product. 

If I cant have the SPHL I would like good junior hockey. This league feels questionable long term stability wise and internally it doesnt seem strong. Not sure I love the idea of selling UHL type hockey as the marketing approach. The UHL was physical but those guys could play and hang in the minor league ranks to a degree. 

I know this opinion is unpopular but I still think the system blows. Im really a fan of the minor league baseball setup. The ECHL and AHL are so big and all over the country now you really have enough to create two geographical leagues for AA and AAA. With the FHL and SPHL you have that to a smaller degree in A. The E got stale for the same reason this will. The schedule. 29 home games with 5 opponents? Less games but it about works out to how many of the home games were against like Reading, Wheeling and Trenton/Johnstown. 

Dont think they will get the grant though. Its a selection year. I doubt the state is feeling charitable. Unless they can make a bribe but the city is broke anyway so it woulf be pointless for the state to do that. I also think it doesnt help that the place hasnt turned a profit in 18 years. The state has a lot of leverage in their favor to say no. Not to mention they need money for everything from the boards, glass, boilers, ice plant, roof and so on. The whole place needs a makeover. The biggest argument for the arena was that it would revitalize downtown. Hasnt done that and it wont do that. The real problem is the 3 guys who pushed for it and made the deal are now out of office. County exec came in that year and is conveniently retiring this fall. The mayor then and his right hand man werent around long after the deal. The place has almost never been on the tax roll. We are lucky there have been no known taxpayer funds. If they want to have an arena I mean fine but we have also seen they arent all that willing to be on the hook. A lot of people didnt want it because they feared it failing. While this is nice charity it still doesnt change the big picture and the worse that debt gets the worse things will get.

While I think Robbie is a decent guy the few times ive met him I also cant help but have some skepticism. He only came here because of the Afrs. He was fairly well connected to them and now no doubt with owning the baseball facility and team a long with the new hockey team and leasing the arena from the local government hes pretty well connected to them now as well. Afr wasnt a saint but the local government has proved the past few years to not really be any better,


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Sports Enthusiast said:


> When Nichols was the GM they were giving free tickets away like hot cakes, I assume this practice has continued with baseball because nobody was going to Pioneers games the last few years they had minor league ball. That was still in the early 2000s. I wasnt around for affiliated ball that ended in the very early 90s. In the late 90s up until the end they went from league to league. I think they were once in the NY PENN league with the last stop being the CAN-AM league. Lack of stability may have hurt or not having affiliated ball may have hurt, not really sure. But I struggle to believe people were finally interested for baseball by watching the idea of Summer Catch.
> 
> How it went down is shady. I question the guys involved here. This deal just adds to the arena debt though since the place will be used but Robbie isnt responsible for paying for it. He has the option to buy it down the road but I cant see anyone ever wanting the debt. One guy was willing and was pushed aside.
> 
> Havent kept up with the FHL but they used to play in rec rinks exclusively I believe. The players were also responsible for their own means of transportation for games and they had jobs. Yeah, UHL, ECHL, CHL and maybe even some AHL guys had jobs but those were in the summer not in season so they were focused on hockey. Every city wants a winning or tolerable product.
> 
> If I cant have the SPHL I would like good junior hockey. This league feels questionable long term stability wise and internally it doesnt seem strong. Not sure I love the idea of selling UHL type hockey as the marketing approach. The UHL was physical but those guys could play and hang in the minor league ranks to a degree.
> 
> I know this opinion is unpopular but I still think the system blows. Im really a fan of the minor league baseball setup. The ECHL and AHL are so big and all over the country now you really have enough to create two geographical leagues for AA and AAA. With the FHL and SPHL you have that to a smaller degree in A. The E got stale for the same reason this will. The schedule. 29 home games with 5 opponents? Less games but it about works out to how many of the home games were against like Reading, Wheeling and Trenton/Johnstown.
> 
> Dont think they will get the grant though. Its a selection year. I doubt the state is feeling charitable. Unless they can make a bribe but the city is broke anyway so it woulf be pointless for the state to do that. I also think it doesnt help that the place hasnt turned a profit in 18 years. The state has a lot of leverage in their favor to say no. Not to mention they need money for everything from the boards, glass, boilers, ice plant, roof and so on. The whole place needs a makeover. The biggest argument for the arena was that it would revitalize downtown. Hasnt done that and it wont do that. The real problem is the 3 guys who pushed for it and made the deal are now out of office. County exec came in that year and is conveniently retiring this fall. The mayor then and his right hand man werent around long after the deal. The place has almost never been on the tax roll. We are lucky there have been no known taxpayer funds. If they want to have an arena I mean fine but we have also seen they arent all that willing to be on the hook. A lot of people didnt want it because they feared it failing. While this is nice charity it still doesnt change the big picture and the worse that debt gets the worse things will get.
> 
> While I think Robbie is a decent guy the few times ive met him I also cant help but have some skepticism. He only came here because of the Afrs. He was fairly well connected to them and now no doubt with owning the baseball facility and team a long with the new hockey team and leasing the arena from the local government hes pretty well connected to them now as well. Afr wasnt a saint but the local government has proved the past few years to not really be any better,



tell that to the fans of Port Huron and Louisville, SE..... WHY was this forum and similar forums made aware of the Afr's disaster that Elmira followed suit.... why hasn't Louisville received another opportunity after Florida got embarassed by them by not paying prospects assigned to that franchise.... Nichols isn't the problem the AFR'S were and always were the main issue why the Jackals folded as they did and why no league has touched any of those three markets until now


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> tell that to the fans of Port Huron and Louisville, SE..... WHY was this forum and similar forums made aware of the Afr's disaster that Elmira followed suit.... why hasn't Louisville received another opportunity after Florida got embarassed by them by not paying prospects assigned to that franchise.... Nichols isn't the problem the AFR'S were and always were the main issue why the Jackals folded as they did and why no league has touched any of those three markets until now




The Jackals lasted like 4 years without Afr, granted it was like the worst hockey of the franchise before.

Sure, I know that but you can never be so sure about the ones connected to them either.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

There was supposed to be a press conference in Elmira tomorrow to announce the team name, head coach and some signings. Its been moved to Thursday August 2nd, That cant be good....


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Sports Enthusiast said:


> There was supposed to be a press conference in Elmira tomorrow to announce the team name, head coach and some signings. Its been moved to Thursday August 2nd, That cant be good....



uh, if that was the case, why is Elmira still on the FHL Site, I think the disconnect is Mentor and that announcement being not publicized


----------



## GrGriffins

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> uh, if that was the case, why is Elmira still on the FHL Site, *I think the disconnect is Mentor and that announcement being not publicized*




FHL Expands to Mentor, OH - Official Site of the Federal Hockey League

*FHL EXPANDS TO MENTOR, OH*

July 23, 2018

Mentor, OH - The Federal Hockey League announced on Monday a second expansion team for the 2018-19 season that will play at Mentor Civic Arena. The team will be called the Mentor Ice Breakers.

The Ice Breakers join Elmira, New York (team name to be announced at press conference next week) as the league’s two expansion franchises, bringing the FHL’s member count to six.

The Ice Breakers will be run by a local majority ownership group comprised of Dan Moon and Chris Bryniarski.

Additionally, Joe Pace, Sr. was announced as the team’s inaugural Head Coach and General Manager. Pace, Sr. has previous coaching experience in the FHL, spending the last 2 seasons as the head coach of the Port Huron Prowlers, where he led the Prowlers to a berth in the championship series in the 2017-18 season. Pace, Sr. also spent time as the Danville Dashers head coach between 2011-2013, and interim head coach of the Dayton Demoltion in 2016. Pace, Sr.’s role as a developer has seen players under his tutelage go on to be high NHL draft picks.

“We are excited to bring family friendly entertainment to the Eastern Cleveland Metro, Lake County, and the City of Mentor. We want to thank William Furman and the City of Mentor for working with us on a fair lease. Our goal is to bring affordable entertainment to Lake County. The beautiful Mentor Ice Arena is a great place to watch hockey and a great family venue. We are looking forward to watching Coach Pace put together an exciting product and bringing some hardware to Northeast Ohio” the ownership group said in a statement.

“I'm obviously very excited to be able to coach in Mentor. This opportunity will be something great. Being able to talk with some of the locals and visiting the area, it's a beautiful town and it is certainly ready for pro hockey” Pace, Sr. said. “It's going to take everyone to get this team ready and be successful right away. The arena, the ownership group, the community, and the local businesses are all on board. Bottom line is we are starting from scratch; it will take time and a lot of hard work. We'll need players who are ready for this challenge. Players who are good citizens, good hockey players, and good teammates.”

In the front office, Iain Duncan will serve a dual role as Assistant General Manager and Assistant Coach. Duncan was a former NHL player for the Winnipeg Jets between 1987-1991, and had a long professional hockey career with various minor league teams after that. Duncan was also named to Bowling Green State University’s “All-Century Team” in 2000.
Mentor will not have to wait long to play its first home game, as the Ice Breakers open the season at home on October 26th, the same day the FHL season begins.

FHL Commissioner Don Kirnan stated: “I believe [the Ice Breakers] will be an excellent opportunity for Ohio and other Midwest players to enter into North American pro hockey. Fans will enjoy the entire experience and at reasonable costs.”

The team will have a color scheme of Pro Silver, Navy Blue, Columbia Blue, and White, and feature a shark logo.
Mentor, Ohio is the largest city in Ohio’s Lake County with a population just under 50,000.

The Ice Breakers become the sixth team set to play in the FHL’s ninth season coming up in 2018-19. They join the Danville Dashers, Watertown Wolves, Port Huron Prowlers, Carolina Thunderbirds, and a team from Elmira, New York that will be named at a future press conference.

More information on the Mentor Ice Breakers can be found online at mentoricebreakers.com, on Facebook (Mentor Ice Breakers), or on Twitter (@FHLIceBreakers).


----------



## GrGriffins

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> uh, if that was the case, why is Elmira still on the FHL Site,* I think the disconnect is Mentor and that announcement being not publicized*




I think the disconnect is you. FHL league schedule released today and it has Elmira and Mentor, OH on it. Danville is playing 2 neutral site games in Battle Creek, MI. Still pushing for a team there sounds like.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

GrGriffins said:


> I think the disconnect is you. FHL league schedule released today and it has Elmira and Mentor, OH on it. Danville is playing 2 neutral site games in Battle Creek, MI. Still pushing for a team there sounds like.



Mentor was known, Gr, but not to the extent as you posted, the focus has been Elmira after all that's transpired in that market, which is where the discussion was heading


----------



## GrGriffins

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> Mentor was known, Gr, but not to the extent as you posted, the focus has been Elmira after all that's transpired in that market, which is where the discussion was heading




FHL, HOCKEY, SPHL
*REPORT: FHL adding two expansion teams for 2018-19 Season*
We have CONFIRMATION that the Federal Hockey League is expanding to two more teams to play next season. Continue readingREPORT: FHL adding two expansion teams for 2018-19 Season



SHAWN BEDNARDMAY 27, 2018







FHL, HOCKEY, MINOR LEAGUE HOCKEY
*Where the heck is the FHL Mentor announcement?*
One strange thing has been the saga of the reported expansion team set to take the ice in Mentor, Ohio. The one expansion team and rumor that seems like a 99.9% lock, and one that has had two dates mentioned in which we could expect an announcement.
And yet, both of those dates that have been said by league officials have come and gone, and we still don’t officially have a team in Mentor. Continue readingWhere the heck is the FHL Mentor announcement?



ROVITZ7 JUNE 14, 2018

It was mentioned as far back as May 27th with the 2 stories I just posted through Scott Brand (Pres/GM of Carolina Thunderbirds). He gives insight of what is happening through the FHL through Bus League Hockey and at times releases info before the FHL does (which is much better than getting info through the FHL website). 

Battle Creek, MI was also suppose to enter the FHL for the 2018-19 season, but they have some arena issues (not enough seating, repairs, etc) that they could not hammer out, so the FHL decided to host 2 neutral site games in Battle Creek, MI for the 2018-19 season to determine if they are ready for FHL for the 2019-20 season.

Dyer, IN was also mentioned as a possible FHL expansion team for 2018-19, but they decided to go to the USPHL league instead. The FHL also looked into Evanston, IL as a possible team, but they never heard back from the locals there.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> uh, if that was the case, why is Elmira still on the FHL Site, I think the disconnect is Mentor and that announcement being not publicized




The ECHL wasnt always quick to remove teams or add teams either. Irs just interesting because until last Wednesday it wasnt even a certain go. The longer in the summer you wait to assemble a team usually spells disaster.



GrGriffins said:


> It was mentioned as far back as May 27th with the 2 stories I just posted through Scott Brand (Pres/GM of Carolina Thunderbirds). He gives insight of what is happening through the FHL through Bus League Hockey and at times releases info before the FHL does (which is much better than getting info through the FHL website).
> 
> Battle Creek, MI was also suppose to enter the FHL for the 2018-19 season, but they have some arena issues (not enough seating, repairs, etc) that they could not hammer out, so the FHL decided to host 2 neutral site games in Battle Creek, MI for the 2018-19 season to determine if they are ready for FHL for the 2019-20 season.
> 
> Dyer, IN was also mentioned as a possible FHL expansion team for 2018-19, but they decided to go to the USPHL league instead. The FHL also looked into Evanston, IL as a possible team, but they never heard back from the locals there.




What id the USPHL? Is it stable or more so than the FHL? The FHL to me I struggle to see a future with all the franchise musical chairs over thw years


----------



## Barclay Donaldson

USPHL is junior hockey, looking to place kids into college. If Dyer chose to go with a USPHL team, at the level that charges tuition at that, then that should speak volumes into how little the people there wanted to do with the Fed.

They probably looked at the wasteland of teams that the Fed has left behind and decided that tier 3 junior hockey probably provided a bit more stability for selling their ice time long term and similar quality hockey (I've watched the Fed, played in the USPHL and it's embarrassingly close).


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Junior hockey charges tuitions? Why is that? Its not as if these teams are schools like in college where they are plying and learning from their academia staff.


----------



## Captain Crash

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Junior hockey charges tuitions? Why is that? Its not as if these teams are schools like in college where they are plying and learning from their academia staff.




At Tier 3, yes. They charge 'tuition' because at that level, the business model assumes nearly no attendance or sponsorship revenue, so the players themselves shoulder costs. In return, players receive coaching, practice, ice time, equipment, travel, competition, and exposure to scouts from colleges and higher junior leagues.

USHL (Tier 1) and NAHL (Tier 2) are free to play. The independent NCDC is also free. You'd be surprised how many Canadian leagues below major junior charge some form of tuition as well.


----------



## Barclay Donaldson

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Junior hockey charges tuitions? Why is that? Its not as if these teams are schools like in college where they are plying and learning from their academia staff.




USHL and NAHL (leagues that don't charge) have mostly midwest teams because that's where it's the only hockey option, and in some cases the only entertainment option in the market (i.e. Aberdeen, SD and Kearney, NE). UPSHL-NCDC division doesn't charge either, but that's because they tax the other teams in the organization to make up for the financial loss. 

Look at the NAHL's East Division teams' attendance (minus Johnstown). The NAHL team in the center of Philadelphia had 6-7 million people within a half hour drive and played in front of an empty building despite extensive marketing. I've lived in the Northeast most of my life and if you're looking to go to a hockey game, I guarantee NHL is top of the list. Too pricey? AHL is closer and cheaper. Want to watch still ridiculously good hockey in a college football atmosphere for a bit less? Then NCAA D1 fits the bill. You still have ECHL and NCAA D2/3 on that list after that. There's too many options to watch higher levels of hockey and juniors doesn't win that battle in most of the United States.

Even in Canada, all of the Ontario leagues charge fees, even if they're quite a bit lower than Tier 3 US leagues. I think the BCHL is on of the few that doesn't charge tuition.

Speaking of which, the Fed is definitely competing with juniors for the same cities and towns. Markets where people will show up because it's one of the few entertainment options and certainly the only hockey one.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Outback Steakhouse said:


> Speaking of which, the Fed is definitely competing with juniors for the same cities and towns. Markets where people will show up because it's one of the few entertainment options and certainly the only hockey one.




I hear you. Would rather watch juniors than the Fed. Guys in the Fed are going nowhere and unlike the UHL never went anywhere. I would be picky on my junior hockey. Wouldnt want this Tier 3 stuff but USHL, OHL or NAHL wouldnt be baad at all. NAHL is kind of the bottom of the junior toem poll though as far as those are concerned.



Outback Steakhouse said:


> USHL and NAHL (leagues that don't charge) have mostly midwest teams because that's where it's the only hockey option, and in some cases the only entertainment option in the market (i.e. Aberdeen, SD and Kearney, NE). UPSHL-NCDC division doesn't charge either, but that's because they tax the other teams in the organization to make up for the financial loss.
> 
> Look at the NAHL's East Division teams' attendance (minus Johnstown). The NAHL team in the center of Philadelphia had 6-7 million people within a half hour drive and played in front of an empty building despite extensive marketing. I've lived in the Northeast most of my life and if you're looking to go to a hockey game, I guarantee NHL is top of the list. Too pricey? AHL is closer and cheaper. Want to watch still ridiculously good hockey in a college football atmosphere for a bit less? Then NCAA D1 fits the bill. You still have ECHL and NCAA D2/3 on that list after that. There's too many options to watch higher levels of hockey and juniors doesn't win that battle in most of the United States.
> 
> Even in Canada, all of the Ontario leagues charge fees, even if they're quite a bit lower than Tier 3 US leagues. I think the BCHL is on of the few that doesn't charge tuition.




Im surprised how well the NAHL has took off in Johnstown. I remember how pissed Chiefs fans were when they were folding and they wanted each resident to put up $50 to be community owned and all of that. Elmira actually kind of did this. Only no finances were involved. They created a board of like 25 people who were all like VP's or business owners who oversaw the daily operations. They had no fiscal responsibilities though.


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## Barclay Donaldson

Sports Enthusiast said:


> I hear you. Would rather watch juniors than the Fed. Guys in the Fed are going nowhere and unlike the UHL never went anywhere. I would be picky on my junior hockey. Wouldnt want this Tier 3 stuff but USHL, OHL or NAHL wouldnt be baad at all. NAHL is kind of the bottom of the junior toem poll though as far as those are concerned.




NAHL is the most realistic option for most places though. What many don’t realize is that a lot franchises whether it’s the NAHL or the Fed don’t make money. Take Wichita Falls for example who were owned by some rich guy who want to give back to the community and use it as a tax write off.

Keeping NAHL teams in the black (from what I’ve heard) takes the about 1,500 butts in seats each home game. USHL’s breakeven point is 2,000 mimimim, and their travel (biggest expenditure) is considerably less. And that’s even not paying the kids, cutting a junior teams budget to a fraction of what a minor league team’s is. Fed is probably close considering their salary doesn’t go too far past gas money and a case of beer.



Sports Enthusiast said:


> Im surprised how well the NAHL has took off in Johnstown. I remember how pissed Chiefs fans were when they were folding and they wanted each resident to put up $50 to be community owned and all of that. Elmira actually kind of did this. Only no finances were involved. They created a board of like 25 people who were all like VP's or business owners who oversaw the daily operations. They had no fiscal responsibilities though.




Johnstown will draw hockey to the War Memorial whether it’s beer league or mites. It’s a hockey crazed old steel town that’s had hockey in the building since the 50s and is the only option for entertainment. It looks like it’s the rallying point for the town too, since they’ve got the same economic, opioid, social problems most Pennsyltucky hill towns do. 

A town owning the team is probably an effective way to keep the team and build community support, it’s a good idea.


----------



## GrGriffins

I think the next season or two will determine if the FHL will still be in existence, merge with the SPHL, or close up shop altogether.

Sounds like Scott Brand must also be the head person of future FHL expansion. If that is the case and what he has stated in his radio talk show a few weeks ago about expanding southward into SPHL territory, makes you wonder if the FHL will try to be 2 leagues within one. Having a Northern division and a Southern Division, with the majority of the games played within their division. Should be interesting to see of this all comes together or not.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Time for the minor league baseball structure.



Outback Steakhouse said:


> NAHL is the most realistic option for most places though. What many don’t realize is that a lot franchises whether it’s the NAHL or the Fed don’t make money. Take Wichita Falls for example who were owned by some rich guy who want to give back to the community and use it as a tax write off.
> 
> Keeping NAHL teams in the black (from what I’ve heard) takes the about 1,500 butts in seats each home game. USHL’s breakeven point is 2,000 mimimim, and their travel (biggest expenditure) is considerably less. And that’s even not paying the kids, cutting a junior teams budget to a fraction of what a minor league team’s is. Fed is probably close considering their salary doesn’t go too far past gas money and a case of beer.
> 
> 
> 
> Johnstown will draw hockey to the War Memorial whether it’s beer league or mites. It’s a hockey crazed old steel town that’s had hockey in the building since the 50s and is the only option for entertainment. It looks like it’s the rallying point for the town too, since they’ve got the same economic, opioid, social problems most Pennsyltucky hill towns do.
> 
> A town owning the team is probably an effective way to keep the team and build community support, it’s a good idea.




You could go farther than that. Most AHL and ECHL teams arent profitable. I think I heard once its like maybe 10 of them. That seems even generous. 

Pennsyltucky? Haha I thought only us people from upstate NY called it that. But I must confess upstate NY isnt much different. Economic depression, opiod crisis and all the same. 

Ive also come to realize most cities in the country suck and are about the same. Poor economics, drugs, ugly architecure, smug, smelly, polluted air. The only difference is some have more billionaires and or millionaires than others. Thats mostly it. The smaller the city the less entertainment options.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Outback Steakhouse said:


> NAHL is the most realistic option for most places though. What many don’t realize is that a lot franchises whether it’s the NAHL or the Fed don’t make money. Take Wichita Falls for example who were owned by some rich guy who want to give back to the community and use it as a tax write off.
> 
> Keeping NAHL teams in the black (from what I’ve heard) takes the about 1,500 butts in seats each home game. USHL’s breakeven point is 2,000 mimimim, and their travel (biggest expenditure) is considerably less. And that’s even not paying the kids, cutting a junior teams budget to a fraction of what a minor league team’s is. Fed is probably close considering their salary doesn’t go too far past gas money and a case of beer.
> 
> 
> 
> Johnstown will draw hockey to the War Memorial whether it’s beer league or mites. It’s a hockey crazed old steel town that’s had hockey in the building since the 50s and is the only option for entertainment. It looks like it’s the rallying point for the town too, since they’ve got the same economic, opioid, social problems most Pennsyltucky hill towns do.
> 
> A town owning the team is probably an effective way to keep the team and build community support, it’s a good idea.



keep in mind, the USPHL, Outback, just added a team and there's more than just the USPHL, There's another whole league called the NA3EHL, which until this year had a team in Binghamton, in fact many AHL Markets AS well as ECHL ones that transitioned had junior offshoots, including Portland and Manchester, in fact, my local market now has a NA3EHL team on one side of the river and a new USPHL entry on the opposite side of said river , no less than 5 minutes from here beginning this season.


----------



## royals119

Sports Enthusiast said:


> You could go farther than that. Most AHL and ECHL teams arent profitable. I think I heard once its like maybe 10 of them. That seems even generous.



I don't believe that is true. The majority of AHL teams are now owned by NHL teams. They may not be profitable in the strict sense of AHL income exceeding AHL expenses, but the economic advantages to the NHL team outweigh those considerations for those teams. Most of the privately owned AHL teams are at least making a modest profit - the ones that weren't profitable were bought and moved for the most part.
As far as the ECHL goes, I had the chance to drive commissioner emeritus Pat Kelly to the airport last season, and I asked him about that. He still attends all the league meetings and knows the owners. He said all but a few are at least breaking even. Of those that lose money it isn't a lot, and most of those are satisfied with that. The Quad City team he mentioned was operated by the owners son, who was a very poor businessman, and wouldn't listen to any help or advice from the league office or other owners. He had plenty of opportunity to do better financially, but just didn't run the team properly. 
You aren't going to make millions owning an ECHL team, but the idea that every team loses money just isn't true.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

royals119 said:


> I don't believe that is true. The majority of AHL teams are now owned by NHL teams. They may not be profitable in the strict sense of AHL income exceeding AHL expenses, but the economic advantages to the NHL team outweigh those considerations for those teams. Most of the privately owned AHL teams are at least making a modest profit - the ones that weren't profitable were bought and moved for the most part.
> As far as the ECHL goes, I had the chance to drive commissioner emeritus Pat Kelly to the airport last season, and I asked him about that. He still attends all the league meetings and knows the owners. He said all but a few are at least breaking even. Of those that lose money it isn't a lot, and most of those are satisfied with that. The Quad City team he mentioned was operated by the owners son, who was a very poor businessman, and wouldn't listen to any help or advice from the league office or other owners. He had plenty of opportunity to do better financially, but just didn't run the team properly.
> You aren't going to make millions owning an ECHL team, but the idea that every team loses money just isn't true.




Theres obviously varying factors. Most AHL teams suffer because of NHL ownership. On the ice, with the NHL teams taking over the whole income thing is more of a moot point.

The ECHL is kind of a different ballgame though. A lot of it comes down to arena ownership. If you get a certain amount of attendees per game that you need to hit to break even or even turn a profit thats one half of the battle. Theres expenses though to take care of. Obviously youre gunna pay a staff but you eill also either be paying rent or paying vendors and other stuff. Nobody really got privy to the finances but I found it interesting last year with the arena deal that was in place the guy who was to be involved figured it would be cheaper to pay for an entry fee of an expansion team rather than pay off the team debt. It was mentioned a few posts above the amount of butts you need per game to break even in juniors and this league but I always wondered about the ECHL and AHL. I figured in the ECHL it was close to 3,000. For most of the years the Jackals did hover around the mark. Granted nobody ever really knew the finances and the Nichols years they were giving free tickets away like hotcakes. I assume because they owned the arena they banked on concession sales to offset.

I should say when I heard this it was maybe about 8 years or so ago and the league landscapes were entirely different. The ECHL had all those floundering Southern markets and you had the teams in California in cities like Stockton who actually declared financial bankruptvy as a city. You also had the CHL. Maybe taking the strong CHL teams and getting rid of the smaller ECHL markets has changed things. Though im stunned Wheeling is still surviving.


----------



## Captain Crash

GrGriffins said:


> I think the next season or two will determine if the FHL will ... merge with the SPHL,




0% chance of this



Sports Enthusiast said:


> It was mentioned a few posts above the amount of butts you need per game to break even in juniors and this league but I always wondered about the ECHL and AHL. I figured in the ECHL it was close to 3,000.




Contrary to popular belief, there's no magic attendance number that makes a team profitable in a given league. Their lease, travel, sponsorships, and local economy are huge variables that make every franchise's business model unique. 



Sports Enthusiast said:


> Though im stunned Wheeling is still surviving.




A perfect example of the above. They have an incredibly favorable lease. Their geographic location makes most of their travel cheap. They're the only team in a town that has a surprising number of large companies, so they're able to get lucrative sponsorships. The cost of living in Wheeling is very low, which means they can pay less to employees and spend less on other expenses, including the mandatory player housing. So while they may not draw nearly as much in attendance as say Toledo or Orlando, they don't have to because their overall expenses are a lot lower.

Comparing attendance is rarely an accurate portrayal of a franchise's financial stability.


----------



## Barclay Donaldson

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> keep in mind, the USPHL, Outback, just added a team and there's more than just the USPHL, There's another whole league called the NA3EHL, which until this year had a team in Binghamton, in fact many AHL Markets AS well as ECHL ones that transitioned had junior offshoots, including Portland and Manchester, in fact, my local market now has a NA3EHL team on one side of the river and a new USPHL entry on the opposite side of said river , no less than 5 minutes from here beginning this season.




The USPHL and their predecessor EJHL had a lot of teams sponsored by those teams they share a market in. The USPHL’s business model and their leaving USA Hockey is specifically about offering free-to-play hockey (NCDC division) by taxing the other junior teams and youth teams in the organization and not selling tickets because people won’t go. The teams are in those markets because that’s where they’ve established their organization. They don’t draw fans or sponsorships and are 100% financially driven by those players. 



Captain Crash said:


> Contrary to popular belief, there's no magic attendance number that makes a team profitable in a given league. Their lease, travel, sponsorships, and local economy are huge variables that make every franchise's business model unique.
> 
> 
> 
> A perfect example of the above. They have an incredibly favorable lease. Their geographic location makes most of their travel cheap. They're the only team in a town that has a surprising number of large companies, so they're able to get lucrative sponsorships. The cost of living in Wheeling is very low, which means they can pay less to employees and spend less on other expenses, including the mandatory player housing. So while they may not draw nearly as much in attendance as say Toledo or Orlando, they don't have to because their overall expenses are a lot lower.
> 
> Comparing attendance is rarely an accurate portrayal of a franchise's financial stability.




That was referencing my comment about junior teams (USHL-NAHL) reliance on attendance, with ticket revenue making up a substantial portion of their revenue stream, with money from pre-season camps being the other big one, in most cases bringing in more than corporate sponsorship. Obviously travel eats up a lot of that, with teams like Carolina Thunderbirds, Youngstown Phantoms, and Fairbanks Ice Dogs spending a lot more than their counterparts. For juniors and probably the Fed, attendance is pretty good indicator of financial health.

AHL isn’t even about making money, it’s about prospect development. Would the NHL who owns those teams prefer them to not hemorrhage money? Of course. ECHL has the middle ground between there and juniors where they have leases and extensive travel, but still rely on game day revenue.


----------



## JDogindy

Okay, so the Mentor Ice Breakers is a thing.

And the odds that I give every team making a full schedule to be 0%.

Also, I'm still befuddled as to why when the Elimra arena was bought, the new owner was adamant he wanted nothing to do with the Jackals, yet wants to put a glorified beer league team in a clown shoes operation.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

JDogindy said:


> Okay, so the Mentor Ice Breakers is a thing.
> 
> And the odds that I give every team making a full schedule to be 0%.
> 
> Also, I'm still befuddled as to why when the Elimra arena was bought, the new owner was adamant he wanted nothing to do with the Jackals, yet wants to put a glorified beer league team in a clown shoes operation.




what, so you're saying Elmira should never have pro hockey because of the clown show that killed pro hockey in Port Huron and Louisville, JD, BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHY Elmira and the ECHL TERMINATED THAT FRANCHISE, what does this expansion have to do with the Jackals being shut down after the black eye that the Afr's were, not just there but in those other two markets, and you now know why Louisville will never get pro hockey ever because of the above clown show ownership that the Afr's are.....

the Jackals should've been terminated the minute the arena went into receivership, in all honesty once the legal suits started and were made public knowledge, here, and other forums similar to these forums, is that a clown show, also.


----------



## Dingo44

JDogindy said:


> Okay, so the Mentor Ice Breakers is a thing.
> 
> And the odds that I give every team making a full schedule to be 0%.
> 
> Also, I'm still befuddled as to why when the Elimra arena was bought, the new owner was adamant he wanted nothing to do with the Jackals, yet wants to put a glorified beer league team in a clown shoes operation.




I've been to a bunch of FHL games in multiple cities and it's obvious you've never been to a game.


----------



## royals119

JDogindy said:


> Okay, so the Mentor Ice Breakers is a thing.
> 
> And the odds that I give every team making a full schedule to be 0%.
> 
> Also, I'm still befuddled as to why when the Elimra arena was bought, the new owner was adamant he wanted nothing to do with the Jackals, yet wants to put a glorified beer league team in a clown shoes operation.



I'm not sure that the owner of the new FHL team also bought the arena. I thought he was just leasing the arena. 
I assume he would rather have an FHL team vs buying the Jackals because it is cheaper. The expansion franchise from the FHL likely cost less than he would have had to pay for either the original Jackals franchise, or an expansion from the ECHL. The Jackals organization also had significant debt, so if he bought that team he'd be saddled with their old debts too. Also, and FHL team is cheaper to operate due to lower salaries, few or no player benefits, less games, etc. 

I've never seen an FHL game, so I can't comment on the quality firsthand. As an outsider looking in I can see where you get the "beer league" impression, since it looks like the players have other jobs during the season, and the rosters change from week to week, with some players having no significant history of playing pro, junior or college. That makes it appear like they are just throwing together a roster of guys from the local adult rec league from week to week in some cases. Probably not every team, and certainly not every player though. There are cases where that used to happen in the ECHL too. (although not as much anymore, since there are fewer pro teams overall, and ECHL teams can sign players from the SPHL or FHL when they need to fill out a roster.)


----------



## JMCx4

royals119 said:


> ... I've never seen an FHL game, so I can't comment on the quality firsthand. As an outsider looking in I can see where you get the "beer league" impression, since it looks like the players have other jobs during the season, and the rosters change from week to week, with some players having no significant history of playing pro, junior or college. That makes it appear like they are just throwing together a roster of guys from the local adult rec league from week to week in some cases. ...



I've been to a handful of Danville Dashers games over the last several seasons, mostly playoff games. By that time each season, the rosters are relatively steady & the collection of players either stink or look like a team. The FHL standings by each season's end typically shows one or two dominant teams, with the rest way behind (some of that due to teams not playing full schedules due to various forms of instability). Overall skill level is about what you'd expect for the lowest level of pro hockey in North America: One or two guys per team who have a chance to advance one or MAYBE two levels before they retire, but the rest just there because they want to play hockey. When the majority of your younger recruits come from lower tier Canadian & U.S. junior programs, you can't expect much.


----------



## Captain Crash

Dingo44 said:


> I've been to a bunch of FHL games in multiple cities and it's obvious you've never been to a game.




I've also been to a bunch of FHL games in multiple cities and I agree wholeheartedly with the way he characterized it.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

JDogindy said:


> Okay, so the Mentor Ice Breakers is a thing.
> 
> And the odds that I give every team making a full schedule to be 0%.
> 
> Also, I'm still befuddled as to why when the Elimra arena was bought, the new owner was adamant he wanted nothing to do with the Jackals, yet wants to put a glorified beer league team in a clown shoes operation.




Deal fell through. That or it was all a staged ruse from the beginning. The arena hasnt been bought, its now being leased. But Nichols could buy it in the future per the deal. I think the Jackals folding was a political move. Nichols had an FHL franchise rihts required before then. Weeks after it was announced the Jackals were folding the deal of an alleged arena buy was called off.



CHRDANHUTCH said:


> what, so you're saying Elmira should never have pro hockey because of the clown show that killed pro hockey in Port Huron and Louisville, JD, BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHY Elmira and the ECHL TERMINATED THAT FRANCHISE, what does this expansion have to do with the Jackals being shut down after the black eye that the Afr's were, not just there but in those other two markets, and you now know why Louisville will never get pro hockey ever because of the above clown show ownership that the Afr's are.....
> 
> the Jackals should've been terminated the minute the arena went into receivership, in all honesty once the legal suits started and were made public knowledge, here, and other forums similar to these forums, is that a clown show, also.




Afr isnt perfect by any means but the dog and pony show continued after and got worse. Atleast under Afr the on ice product wa usually competitive. The only difference between Afr and post Afr is that after Afr it became friends of the local politicians and then it became local government agency. So instead of getting screwed and not getting their promises they could now do the screwing over



royals119 said:


> I'm not sure that the owner of the new FHL team also bought the arena. I thought he was just leasing the arena.
> I assume he would rather have an FHL team vs buying the Jackals because it is cheaper. The expansion franchise from the FHL likely cost less than he would have had to pay for either the original Jackals franchise, or an expansion from the ECHL. The Jackals organization also had significant debt, so if he bought that team he'd be saddled with their old debts too. Also, and FHL team is cheaper to operate due to lower salaries, few or no player benefits, less games, etc.
> 
> I've never seen an FHL game, so I can't comment on the quality firsthand. As an outsider looking in I can see where you get the "beer league" impression, since it looks like the players have other jobs during the season, and the rosters change from week to week, with some players having no significant history of playing pro, junior or college. That makes it appear like they are just throwing together a roster of guys from the local adult rec league from week to week in some cases. Probably not every team, and certainly not every player though. There are cases where that used to happen in the ECHL too. (although not as much anymore, since there are fewer pro teams overall, and ECHL teams can sign players from the SPHL or FHL when they need to fill out a roster.)




All I really know about that is Robbie Nichols bought the franchise rights of some FHL team in March 2017, no idea what franchise or anything. Wasnt really following the FHL. Youre probably right on the cost but he didnt fold the Jackals. That was the guy who was going to buy the arena but the more I think about it I feel like that was some secretive political decision. At that time(and still)the IDA actually owns the arena. When the ownership change was announced at a press conference the guy wasnt there but the county executive and his right hand man that led economic growth and is looking to replace him this fall were there leading the presser. The guy who bought it never appeared in a news interview or anything, Then a few weeks later the deal was called off. Some people I know say the guy was interested but actually backed out way earlier and never agreed to buy it. More questions than answers. Maybe Nichols and the political heads made the call. I highly doubt Nichol has that kind of capital to buy the arena, take on the debt and field a team, especially if it had been an ECHL one.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

What a trainwreck. I like the logo to a degree but thats about it. Thats the only thing I can like about this.

Elmira hockey team chooses Enforcers as nickname, Brent Clarke as head coach

I hate that they took it and made something that could work into a societal type issue. They are catering to and playing a "political" agenda from day one and you admit it in your presser why you named it that. I know the issue is a tired one. Im fine with people having their own views. Where I draw a line in the sand is when im told I should support authority, believe all the people in prison are bad people, that none of them can change and none are there due to misfortune. I know a few people who have been CO's, even through relation, im not going to lie and say they are all genuine sweethearts or anything like this. Not big for labels or control. 

Interesting they mention a radio broadcaster but not that they have a radio station home.


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## Dingo44

I like the new name in Elmira.

And I like FHL hockey. The league is a trainwreck but in a fun way. Hockey is actually good and it's nice to not have to worry about systems and just be able to see two teams going at it for fun. Price is right too.

I've brought a bunch of people to the Thunderbirds games and they've all loved it and most come back.

I saw NHL games in Buffalo, Raleigh, Detroit, and Vegas last year, USHL games in Plymouth, MI, and OHL games in Windsor, Sarnia, and London. I have about as much fun in Winston as any of them - it's a different kind of fun, but still fun never the less.


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## Sports Enthusiast

Dingo44 said:


> I like the new name in Elmira.
> 
> And I like FHL hockey. The league is a trainwreck but in a fun way. Hockey is actually good and it's nice to not have to worry about systems and just be able to see two teams going at it for fun. Price is right too.
> 
> I've brought a bunch of people to the Thunderbirds games and they've all loved it and most come back.
> 
> I saw NHL games in Buffalo, Raleigh, Detroit, and Vegas last year, USHL games in Plymouth, MI, and OHL games in Windsor, Sarnia, and London. I have about as much fun in Winston as any of them - it's a different kind of fun, but still fun never the less.




The name would work but the reasoning for itis just well...a bit buzz killing because it has nothing to truly do with enforcer as the meaning so much. If they used it through the hockey intent that would be awesome. 

The top pro leagues are becoming too corporate and boring. Its not about winning anymore because of all these TV contracts they can make money without internal needs really.


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## CrazyEddie20

Sports Enthusiast said:


> What a trainwreck. I like the logo to a degree but thats about it. Thats the only thing I can like about this.
> 
> Elmira hockey team chooses Enforcers as nickname, Brent Clarke as head coach
> 
> I hate that they took it and made something that could work into a societal type issue. They are catering to and playing a "political" agenda from day one and you admit it in your presser why you named it that. I know the issue is a tired one. Im fine with people having their own views. Where I draw a line in the sand is when im told I should support authority, believe all the people in prison are bad people, that none of them can change and none are there due to misfortune. I know a few people who have been CO's, even through relation, im not going to lie and say they are all genuine sweethearts or anything like this. Not big for labels or control.
> 
> Interesting they mention a radio broadcaster but not that they have a radio station home.




No one is telling you to support anything. This isn't about politics. It's a calculated marketing message aimed at selling hockey tickets. Take your politics elsewhere.


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## CrazyEddie20

So, with all that said, the FHL has the potential to have two stable markets for the first time ever.

That said, the actual hockey isn't any good, so they'll have to market the crap out of it.

Does anyone think this will be the year that every team, from top to bottom, plays the same number of games? Personally, I doubt it. I'll put my money on Mentor being this year's midseason fold.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

CrazyEddie20 said:


> So, with all that said, the FHL has the potential to have two stable markets for the first time ever.
> 
> That said, the actual hockey isn't any good, so they'll have to market the crap out of it.
> 
> Does anyone think this will be the year that every team, from top to bottom, plays the same number of games? Personally, I doubt it. I'll put my money on Mentor being this year's midseason fold.



how about Both teams thriving for a change, Eddie


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## CrazyEddie20

I think Carolina will continue to be successful, and Elmira has a good chance. The other four? Not so sure.


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## JMCx4

CrazyEddie20 said:


> I think Carolina will continue to be successful, and Elmira has a good chance. The other four? Not so sure.



Port Huron will draw strong again this season, and I expect Danville to rebound from last season's dip below 1K per game (though maybe still under that milestone). Soskin will make sure both teams stay vital. Watertown had a good attendance year last season to build on in 2018/19 as well. The League will not fail solely on drooping attendance.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

ELMIRA'S MAJOR ISSUE likely becomes can Nichols restore faith in the market to help fade the memory of the final years of the Jackals, even though that will sadly, always be a part of that market, and how long will the market/fanbase forget what occurred there


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## Sports Enthusiast

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> ELMIRA'S MAJOR ISSUE likely becomes can Nichols restore faith in the market to help fade the memory of the final years of the Jackals, even though that will sadly, always be a part of that market, and how long will the market/fanbase forget what occurred there




The lack of quality will be a bigger issue than that. Seriously D3 is way better and Cornell is only 45 minutes away.


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## Nightsquad

Sports Enthusiast said:


> The lack of quality will be a bigger issue than that. Seriously D3 is way better and Cornell is only 45 minutes away.




Can you even get tickets to attend games at Cornell? My understanding is there is a wait list for season tickets. Even with the Big Red's somewhat close proximity Elmira-Corning is a lunch box town, blue collar. Cornell is representation of Ivy league, more elitist. I am sure the FHL and The Enforcer identity would align well with the Chemung and Allegheny County fan base.


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## iamjs

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Pennsyltucky? Haha I thought only us people from upstate NY called it that. But I must confess upstate NY isnt much different. Economic depression, opiod crisis and all the same.
> 
> Ive also come to realize most cities in the country suck and are about the same. Poor economics, drugs, ugly architecture, smug, smelly, polluted air. The only difference is some have more billionaires and or millionaires than others. Thats mostly it. The smaller the city the less entertainment options.




Nah, even those of us that live here refer to it as Pennsyltucky, but I think it's more directed at certain areas. I've heard it used with Johnstown even by those who live in the city itself. 

That said, those who live in Pennsyltucky are at least happy that they don't live in Fayettenam (aka Fayette County.) Fayettenam is the PA equivalent of giving "Florida Man" his own section of the city in the middle of nowhere.


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