# ECHL Hockey in St. John's, NL 2018-19 ?



## Growlers

> On Thursday, John Graham, speaking for the ownership group of the National Basketball League’s St. John’s Edge, restated their desire to own a hockey team that would play out of Mile One, saying they are focused on the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League.
> 
> On Friday, a group headed by St. John’s businessman Dean MacDonald revealed it had begun the process of acquiring an ECHL franchise for St. John’s, one that would hit the Mile One ice in 2018-19 if their efforts are successful.
> 
> If the American Hockey League, which had teams in St. John’s for two decades, is considered “AAA,” or the highest rung of minor-league hockey, the ECHL, formerly known as the East Coast Hockey League, is seen as a “AA” circuit.
> 
> Nevertheless, MacDonald believes fans here would take to the brand.
> 
> He has.
> 
> “I have been a big fan the East Coast league for a while,” said MacDonald, who has a home in Naples, Fla., home of the ECHL’s Florida Everblades.
> 
> “It’s really, really fun, exciting league, and with the (AHL’s) IceCaps moving, I felt they’re was an opportunity. I began working on it and I recently reached out to Glenn a little while ago and asked him if we could partner to bring (the ECHL) in.”
> 
> That would be Glenn Stanford, the former chief operating officer of the St. John’s IceCaps, whose run in the AHL ended earlier this year when the Montreal Canadiens moved the franchise to Laval, Que. Interestingly, Stanford had also been working as a contracted consultant for the Edge, helping the new pro basketball team get established in St. John’s.
> 
> MacDonald wouldn’t specify whether the plan was to start a brand-new ECHL team or acquire an existing one, although he did say that the acquisition wouldn’t involve the Everblades."





Source: BRENDAN McCARTHY: Faceoff over Mile One: Local group seeks ECHL franchise for St. John’s | The Telegram


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## CHRDANHUTCH

All hockey fans must remember the Fog Devils, and how that went.....


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## 210

I'm guessing you wouldn't need both hands to count the number of people who care about the Fog Devils.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

210 said:


> I'm guessing you wouldn't need both hands to count the number of people who care about the Fog Devils.



and neither the Q, NOR THE E, have any real interest in St. John's, based off past experience, no matter how it was set up, when is the last time Worcester pursued a junior league franchise, there, 210, answer) NEVER


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## JMCx4

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> and neither the Q, *NOR THE E*, have any real interest in St. John's ...



I'd have to agree that an ECHL franchise being granted to St. John's is a real long shot. Even if the League has middle to long-range plans to reconsolidate in the Eastern U.S. (maybe following more shuffling of AHL franchises?), St. John's would remain a geographically isolated destination for regular visits through a season. I still haven't figured out how & why Brampton became one of the Central Hockey League survivors to join the ECHL, but at least there teams can head for Toronto via major thoroughfares or air routes.


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## 210

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> and neither the Q, NOR THE E, have any real interest in St. John's, based off past experience, no matter how it was set up, when is the last time Worcester pursued a junior league franchise, there, 210, answer) NEVER




No one would put a junior team in Worcester because it would be moronic to even attempt it. Far too much high level NCAA and pro teams within an easy drive from here.


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## Nightsquad

[MOD] Comparing Worcester or Portland to St. John's is very pointless. In terms of hockey support St. John's is proven. How they "may" support the ECHL is anyone's guess. Maybe the Fog Devils ran a lousy organization, the Newfies loved their AHL hockey though. If the Ice Caps returned under a strong affiliation, well managed, and priced right any suggestion it wouldn't work is pure speculation. I am sure Portland and Worcester would welcome anyone up in their neck of the woods. Manchester no longer seems to care about professional hockey and who knows how long Norfolk will last with all that's going on with that club. The NHL and AHL really stuck it to the ECHL, they (the ECHL) had strong western markets until the market poaching and trading began. Now the ECHL is stuck with a lot of uncertainty of questionable disgruntled markets up in the northeast/new England areas.


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## Avsrule2022

I could totally see St. John's buying the Colorado Eagles ECHL franchise after they move to the AHL next year. And then affiliating with the Avs and Eagles, just like the Eagles were affiliated with St. John's when the situations were reversed. 3 year deal that one or both teams bail on after the first or second year to align up with a more travel friendly affiliate.


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## JimB

So the Norfolk Admirals are struggling and last in the league in attendance; the Admirals owner recently brought in Trevor Ferguson from the Florida Everblades, to manage things after Santos was fired; and the head of the group negotiating to purchase a team for St. John's has a home in Naples and is a big fan of the Everblades. Just noting a slightly intriguing coincidence.


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## Nightsquad

I think to dismiss the ECHL landing in St. Johns is just premature. Whether or not at face value the product level and location is the challenge, and the history of the Fog Devils shouldn't be viewed as a hard indicator whether the league would be sustainable of not. Canadians know their hockey, they also know what they are watching at each respective level. I think a market like St. Johns appreciates a solid product, local identity, and rallies around their team. They are a proud bunch, lots of civic pride. Whether it works or not is up for them to decide.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Nightsquad said:


> I think to dismiss the ECHL landing in St. Johns is just premature. Whether or not at face value the product level and location is the challenge, and the history of the Fog Devils shouldn't be viewed as a hard indicator whether the league would be sustainable of not. Canadians know their hockey, they also know what they are watching at each respective level. I think a market like St. Johns appreciates a solid product, local identity, and rallies around their team. They are a proud bunch, lots of civic pride. Whether it works or not is up for them to decide.



disagree

who backed that franchise and it leads to that argument, you so portray here, NS.... IF the Irvings couldn't sustain a franchise, and Williams is not involved in this venture, this owner is out of his mind financially to self-sustain a franchise, even if it gets off the ground, there's a reason why Worcester and Portland took 2 years to either acquire a franchise or be awarded one, and if the Edge are the exclusivity factor that the Telegram reports that it is, that's not boding well for a hockey franchise.


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## wildcat48

The ECHL is very plausible for St. John’s… The league is making a push eastward. The league has never been shy about going into places that were considered outpost. The league has been moving into former AHL cities, making St. John’s a perfect place. The fan base would support the team because it would be pro hockey that ownership could market as St. John’s team. Despite solid attendance St. John’s has lost its team every time due to an NHL team, moving the club…. Not because of something done by St. John’s.
It’s irrelevant that Danny Williams is not part of the ownership group. Dean MacDonald has significant wealth. He’s CEO of Tuckamore Capital, which is a large private equity firm that specializes in gas, oil and mineral rights, so they have the resources to support the club through the start up phase. Also, if they manage to lure Glenn Stafford over to the ECHL operation that would boost their ability to run the club successfully.
The St. John’s Edge group is just amateur compared to MacDonald group….


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## Growlers

wildcat48 said:


> The ECHL is very plausible for St. John’s… The league is making a push eastward. The league has never been shy about going into places that were considered outpost. The league has been moving into former AHL cities, making St. John’s a perfect place. The fan base would support the team because it would be pro hockey that ownership could market as St. John’s team. Despite solid attendance St. John’s has lost its team every time due to an NHL team, moving the club…. Not because of something done by St. John’s.
> It’s irrelevant that Danny Williams is not part of the ownership group. Dean MacDonald has significant wealth. He’s CEO of Tuckamore Capital, which is a large private equity firm that specializes in gas, oil and mineral rights, so they have the resources to support the club through the start up phase. Also, if they manage to lure Glenn Stafford over to the ECHL operation that would boost their ability to run the club successfully.
> The St. John’s Edge group is just amateur compared to MacDonald group….





Glen Stanford is already committed as being his partner. So that gives them a big advantage.


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## CANADIENSFAN90

who is Glen Stanford?


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## royals119

The ECHL had a team in Alaska for a long time, so they are very familiar with how an outpost team would work, what the challenges are and what it would cost. Between that information and local knowledge from people who were involved with the ice caps, I'm sure the new owner will be going in with his eyes open, and the league will ensure he has the financing in place to cover the potential losses before approving a franchise.


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## 210

monarchsfan90 said:


> who is Glen Stanford?




He ran the St. John's Maple Leafs for about 15 years, then ran the Hamilton Bulldogs for a while. Then he ran the St. John's IceCaps from 2012 or so until they left. He's a big deal...


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## 210




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## JMCx4

Brampton relocating?


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## JungleJON

My guess would be the Admirals.


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## JDogindy

You may have to consider another Maritime team to offset the losses.

Otherwise, it'll be St. John's versus Maine 36 times.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

JDogindy said:


> You may have to consider another Maritime team to offset the losses.
> 
> Otherwise, it'll be St. John's versus Maine 36 times.




agree to the 1st point, JD... EXCEPT ALL the other Maritime teams are set up in the Q, that was why Saint John was the 'rival' franchise back before the ATL/WPG transition


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## Agalloch

I expect Brampton to affiliate Ottawa next year.


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## kyfry

I think it would be good for St Johns to join and if the Canadiens are going to be involved it will be very helpful. That said yes I think we need another team or two in eastern Canada to help. Fredericton would be a possibility. It was a former AHL market in the 80s/90s however from what Ive heard is the fans there are primarily college hockey fans. Maybe add a team to Quebec City at Videotron Centre. I know it hosts the Q's Remparts but I think Quebec could support both pro and junior.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

St. John's actually is 29th team.... league has 27 active and Alaska's transfer to Cross is 28, depends on who also lands the current Eagles franchise.


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## kyfry

The Eagles franchise might not even be moved. It could just be cancelled. Thats what they did when Charlotte jumped. Nothing has been announced for the future of the Eagles ECHL franchise yet, for all we know it could be shifting to St Johns. But since Colorado is still active for now, Hutch is right and St Johns would be 29 until the Eagles depart.


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## ADKthunderFan34

I thought it was already confirmed that the eagles are joining the AHL? And is this St Johns ECHL thing actually happening? Today’s the first day I’ve heard of it


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Bthatch34 said:


> I thought it was already confirmed that the eagles are joining the AHL? And is this St Johns ECHL thing actually happening? Today’s the first day I’ve heard of it




right, but the franchise the Eagles currently operate under is kinda of the sidebar in this because the E either grants St. John's an expansion team like Worcester did or do they go with what Spectra did by negotiating a transfer of territory, which is how Portland is team 28.... and then who knows what current markets will opt out... is Quad City as bad as been reported and are the Mallards done, this time for good, not just a hiatus, but highly speculated that it might be announced soon.

I've seen stories that they could go either way, but St. John's fanbase acted like Lewiston was when they first got the Q, not knowing what to expect and that team landed right after MLSE exited to Ricoh, but the poll said preference is the Q, but it depends on how Mile One and the bid/lease agreement the ownership backing the ECHL group likely has landed that agreement


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## Nightsquad

St. Johns will be a good fit, you can go after undrafted junior grads, recognized players. The AHL finally has more Canadian fans filling AHL barns with Winnipeg, Belleville, Toronto, and now suburban Montreal. If they have rights to the Ice Caps brand I think Newfie fans will enjoy ECHL hockey. I think we might see another team or two in northeast United States in next couple years. I bet we will see the Rangers and Buffalo try to get their ECHL affiliates closer to home in near future as well.



Bthatch34 said:


> I thought it was already confirmed that the eagles are joining the AHL? And is this St Johns ECHL thing actually happening? Today’s the first day I’ve heard of it




I see your Thunder doing well up there in the North Country, nice to see. Your local ownership is doing a good job, and your attendance seems to be improving nicely. Not so sure though your Monarch rivals nearby are doing well enough to last much longer. Looks like pretty shakey ground for Manchester and Norfolk but at least you have Maine on the horizon to look forward to. Be so much nicer to see more teams like Atlanta, Jacksonville, Orlando, and othet big cities make the trip to Northern NY.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Nightsquad said:


> St. Johns will be a good fit, you can go after undrafted junior grads, recognized players. The AHL finally has more Canadian fans filling AHL barns with Winnipeg, Belleville, Toronto, and now suburban Montreal. If they have rights to the Ice Caps brand I think Newfie fans will enjoy ECHL hockey. I think we might see another team or two in northeast United States in next couple years. I bet we will see the Rangers and Buffalo try to get their ECHL affiliates closer to home in near future as well.




Ice Caps isn't owned by either group nor is Danny Williams involved


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## CHRDANHUTCH

will the St. John's Edge impede the lease agreement? also initial reports that the Canadiens will be the next affiliate in St. John's are erroneous if the ECHL Group wins the battle over the Edge ownership over the lease.... sounds an awful lot like Worcester and Portland and false starts before everything comes together.... ECHL will not grant the franchise if no lease with SJSE, the operators of Mile One....

courtesy the Telegraph


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## 210

Just so folks can read what Hutch is talking about:
ECHL a definite possibility for St. John's, but give it at least a week, probably longer | The Telegram


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Now it appears from the St. John's Telegram that Stanford has indeed aligned with MacDonald on the ECHL BID, no confirmation officially from the ECHL BUT PROVISIONALLY by Monday, the exclusivity window (45 days) clause opens.... apparently, this ownership has landed Toronto as the affiliate, and that means both Toronto franchises, including the original Maple Leafs, now the Toronto Marlies..... other provisions in said contract are training camp and at least 2 games by the Marlies, back in St. John's.... no word on who lands Orlando as the Solar Bears affiliation contract will be transferred to this group once approved by the ECHL.....

IT also is being reported that the Edge ownership has been told their efforts to convince an existing QMJHL franchise to relocate to St. John's or an expansion team to be awarded by the QMJHL is DOA, MEANING Courteau has flat out said no markets are either available or no expansion bid need be submitted, because the Q is not looking to expand at this time.... doesn't mean the Edge ownership cannot secure a hockey team, but if SJSE enters into the lease with the ECHL ownership, it's over.

so we could have 29 teams by the time the 2018/19 season begins, depending on other existing markets.


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## JMCx4

Don't fret, HUTCH. Someday, you too will learn to include citations ... Telegram | St. John's ECHL bid strikes partnership with Toronto Maple Leafs: sources


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Some, if not all, are behind paywalls, nowadays, making it harder to do citations


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## JMCx4

Fair enough. But the last two weren't. We owe it to the sources - ethically AND legally - to cite them. Plus, it guards the poster from claims that they're making things up.


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## Growlers

Some more news on possible ECHL team for St. John's

Groups competing to bring hockey to Mile One tight-lipped as talks continue


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## Nightsquad

The negotiations are good news for the ECHL. ECHL is very good hockey, and really needs to establish itself up in the Northeast/New England/Atlantic seaboard.


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## JMCx4

Nightsquad said:


> ... ECHL is very good hockey, and really needs to establish itself up in the Northeast/New England/Atlantic seaboard.



Ironic, considering the League's roots.


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## JungleJON

ECHL was established with 5 teams, 3 being in the South. Erie, PA was the most northern team for years. Most of the teams over the next 10-15 years were either from the South or Midwest. 2003-2004 saw the West Coast teams join. Elmira, NY joined in 2007-2008 which made them the northernmost team. When some of the CHL teams were admitted in 2014-15, Brampton, ONT became the most northern team. Then the following year Manchester, NH.

So it hasn't been since recent years that the ECHL has gone into the northeast region.

The old NAHL, which was an offshoot of the EHL, had teams in Maine, Cape Cod, Syracuse, Long Island, Utica and Binghampton. Most of them in later years went to the AHL.


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## JMCx4

JungleJON said:


> ECHL was established with 5 teams, 3 being in the South. Erie, PA was the most northern team for years. Most of the teams over the next 10-15 years were either from the South or Midwest. ... So it hasn't been since recent years that the ECHL has gone into the northeast region. ...



That's my own Midwest roots showing. Erie & Johnstown are "Northeast" to me, and I'm prone to lumping the ECHL & EHL into one pro entity (which they clearly never were).
I hereby stand corrected - until my next episode ...


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## CHRDANHUTCH

JMCx4 said:


> That's my own Midwest roots showing. Erie & Johnstown are "Northeast" to me, and I'm prone to lumping the ECHL & EHL into one pro entity (which they clearly never were).
> I hereby stand corrected - until my next episode ...




it's fine... hardly anybody can remember every little detail


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Mac Donald and Stanford are getting annoyed, and Commissioner McKenna may not have the patience,either, as the stall tactics of the Edge ownership blocking hockey's return....

essentially, the ECHL has greenlighted a St. John's franchise but between the Edge stall tactics and SJSE GOING RADIO SILENT toward MacDonald/Stanford over a potential lease.... the ECHL wants an update fairly quickly if hockey returns to St. John's for 2018/19.


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## royals119

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> Mac Donald and Stanford are getting annoyed, and Commissioner McKenna may not have the patience,either, as the stall tactics of the Edge ownership blocking hockey's return....
> 
> essentially, the ECHL has greenlighted a St. John's franchise but between the Edge stall tactics and SJSE GOING RADIO SILENT toward MacDonald/Stanford over a potential lease.... the ECHL wants an update fairly quickly if hockey returns to St. John's for 2018/19.



Any links to statements or articles? Is this just your opinion/assumption/guess, or did you speak to the parties involved personally?

I agree the ECHL is probably looking to get this finalized ASAP. They typically want a finalized roster of teams by the winter meetings, which occurred last week during the all-star game weekend - although they have given short extensions in the past for teams who are finalizing details of a lease. I would assume if the groups in SJ can't come to an agreement quickly the team will get pushed to the 19/20 season, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. It would give them more time to hire staff, sell tickets, sign sponsors, etc. February is a pretty late start, considering players start signing contracts as early as April - unless they already have a coach signed and staff ready to go, and are just keeping it all quiet until the lease is done.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

royals119 said:


> Any links to statements or articles? Is this just your opinion/assumption/guess, or did you speak to the parties involved personally?
> 
> I agree the ECHL is probably looking to get this finalized ASAP. They typically want a finalized roster of teams by the winter meetings, which occurred last week during the all-star game weekend - although they have given short extensions in the past for teams who are finalizing details of a lease. I would assume if the groups in SJ can't come to an agreement quickly the team will get pushed to the 19/20 season, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. It would give them more time to hire staff, sell tickets, sign sponsors, etc. February is a pretty late start, considering players start signing contracts as early as April - unless they already have a coach signed and staff ready to go, and are just keeping it all quiet until the lease is done.




This is solely on the Edge, tbth.... I don't post articles because I just don't feel with the way media is today, most of these are behind Paywalls, royals, but the latest is on the St.John's newspaper site, the Telegram.... it never does say the League has awarded the MacDonald/Stanford ownership a franchise but it acts like a conditional approval.... the point is as I stated it's a Delay or stall tactic... that group wants to start lease negotiations ASAP....

HERE's the link though to the Telegram, though..... The Telegram.... just look for the article talking about Delay of Game


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## royals119

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> This is solely on the Edge, tbth.... I don't post articles because I just don't feel with the way media is today, most of these are behind Paywalls, royals, but the latest is on the St.John's newspaper site, the Telegram.... it never does say the League has awarded the MacDonald/Stanford ownership a franchise but it acts like a conditional approval.... the point is as I stated it's a Delay or stall tactic... that group wants to start lease negotiations ASAP....
> 
> HERE's the link though to the Telegram, though..... The Telegram.... just look for the article talking about Delay of Game



Ok..., but when you post stuff like "_Mac Donald and Stanford are getting annoyed, and Commissioner McKenna may not have the patience..._" without saying where you are getting the information it leaves everyone wondering where you are coming up with the information. If you aren't going to post the link, maybe at least say something like "According to an article in The Telegram, MacDonald and Stanford..."

For the rest of us, here is the link. St. John's ECHL group wants two minutes for delay of game | The Telegram (no paywall, it is a free site)


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## Growlers

royals119 said:


> I agree the ECHL is probably looking to get this finalized ASAP. They typically want a finalized roster of teams by the winter meetings, which occurred last week during the all-star game weekend - although they have given short extensions in the past for teams who are finalizing details of a lease. I would assume if the groups in SJ can't come to an agreement quickly the team will get pushed to the 19/20 season, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. It would give them more time to hire staff, sell tickets, sign sponsors, etc. February is a pretty late start, considering players start signing contracts as early as April - unless they already have a coach signed and staff ready to go, and are just keeping it all quiet until the lease is done.




When would you think is the absolute deadline to get the deal done for them to play next season?


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## Woo Hockey

slue said:


> When would you think is the absolute deadline to get the deal done for them to play next season?




To play next season would've been last season.


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## Growlers

All the news reports are saying they are planning to start for the 2018-19 season 

Source: St. John's ECHL bid strikes partnership with Toronto Maple Leafs: sources | The Telegram


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## JMCx4

Smacks of desperation for the ECHL BOGs. Maybe they know they're gonna lose at least one existing team come the end of this season.


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## royals119

Woo Hockey said:


> To play next season would've been last season.



The "rule" where teams have to be approved by the January meeting 20 months prior to the season they start play has only been in place for a few years. It wasn't uncommon at all to have teams approved in January to start play the following October until fairly recently. Maybe the group from St John's has been working quietly behind the scenes to get everything in place with the ECHL for the last year and we just don't know about it. Although they apparently haven't had a season ticket holder drive to prove they have the interest, and they won't have the recommended full year of prep time, it isn't impossible to get approved this late. It would go against what the league has been preaching for the last few years. Although Jacksonville kind of came out of nowhere at the last minute too. That was a relocation as opposed to expansion though, so maybe St John's is buying an existing team and they haven't announced it yet, in case this falls through and that team doesn't want it known publically they are leaving.

To answer the original question: I would expect this to get resolved one way or the other within the next two weeks at most. If the building keeps stonewalling for another week and nothing's happening it is definitely getting pushed to '19-'20. If they start negotiations in the next day or two and it looks positive, they might get two weeks to get the paperwork done.



> All the news reports are saying they are planning to start for the 2018-19 season
> 
> Source: St. John's ECHL bid strikes partnership with Toronto Maple Leafs: sources | The Telegram




Newspapers have been wrong before too - or even purposely fed incorrect information because it helps give urgency to negotiations.


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## JMCx4

royals119 said:


> The "rule" where teams have to be approved by the January meeting 20 months prior to the season they start play has only been in place for a few years. It wasn't uncommon at all to have teams approved in January to start play the following October until fairly recently. Maybe the group from St John's has been working quietly behind the scenes to get everything in place with the ECHL for the last year and we just don't know about it. Although they apparently haven't had a season ticket holder drive to prove they have the interest, and they won't have the recommended full year of prep time, it isn't impossible to get approved this late. It would go against what the league has been preaching for the last few years. Although Jacksonville kind of came out of nowhere at the last minute too. That was a relocation as opposed to expansion though, so maybe St John's is buying an existing team and they haven't announced it yet, in case this falls through and that team doesn't want it known publically they are leaving. ...



All good points, '119. Often us fans assume we (as an individual or as a collective) know the extent of business dealings based on what is published plus what our fellow fans who we believe have "inside knowledge" are sharing. A successful business plan - sports or otherwise - often benefits greatly from discretion & privacy. Sometimes it even relies on a little public trickery That's what makes our speculation fun & frustrating all at the same time.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Royals:

why are we using Jacksonville as an example? Worcester went through this delay, Spectra is doing the exact same thing in Portland after acquiring Alaska's territorial rights.... something never seen at the AHL Level, and the posters here, or the majority of them have experienced that in that league's dealings.... do we even know if Colorado's currently active franchise is even in play during this season... when it was already widely known in the AHL, because of Vegas joining the AHL relented or reluctantly got pushed to 31.


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## JMCx4

That's one helluva mouthful, HUTCH. My Google Translate choked on it, and gave me a Blue Screen Of Death.


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## royals119

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> Royals:
> 
> why are we using Jacksonville as an example?



Woo hockey said (in response to the question, when is the latest St John's could be approved and play in 18-19 season)


Woo Hockey said:


> To play next season would've been last season.



I was responding to that post, and the original question, to say it is possible they could join without having a full year lead time, either through relocation of a current team (like Jacksonville did), or by bypassing the "rule", which has only been in place for a few years, and might be waived by the BOG due to some behind the scenes stuff we don't know about. I'm not saying it will definitely happen, but that it could.



> Worcester went through this delay, Spectra is doing the exact same thing in Portland after acquiring Alaska's territorial rights.... something never seen at the AHL Level, and the posters here, or the majority of them have experienced that in that league's dealings....



Yes, for the last few years the league has generally required expansion teams to be approved for membership at least a full season prior to actually playing, and then have a season ticket drive and community involvement for a year to show they have the local interest and resources to get the team off the ground successfully, and they get final approval at the mid season meeting after meeting those goals. I didn't say that isn't how it generally works - just saying it is possible to get an exception in certain circumstances.



> do we even know if Colorado's currently active franchise is even in play during this season... when it was already widely known in the AHL, because of Vegas joining the AHL relented or reluctantly got pushed to 31.




We don't know if Colorado will sell their ECHL franchise or return it to the league. We don't know if some other team is ready to fold and sell their franchise. We also don't know that the AHL was reluctant to expand. They've stated many times their goal to match the NHL, so I think they were actually happy to expand.


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## Avsrule2022

royals119 said:


> We also don't know that the AHL was reluctant to expand. They've stated many times their goal to match the NHL, so I think they were actually happy to expand.




Agreed. No way the AHL or San Antonio (or Avs and Blues for that matter) are happy about a shared affiliation this year.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

well it's getting downright ugly....

basically, the Edge are saying they have the rights to Mile One(hockey included) AND THEN the MacDonald/Stanford group are still waiting to negotiate a lease.... heading now to binding arbitration....


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## royals119

New articles from The Telegraph

Group prepared to put ECHL team at Mile One doesn't understand why it's been sidelined | The Telegram

ANALYSIS: Mile One freeze-out as hockey exclusivity goes to arbitration | The Telegram

Both articles essentially say the same thing. The current group who owns the basketball team was entered arbitration with the arena operator over their lease, and the exclusivity clause regarding bringing in a hockey team. No timeline is know for the arbitration process, and this could derail efforts to bring a team in for 2018, or even block the team altogether.


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## Growlers

In this latest interview, the owner Dean MacDonald states the other "27" teams. So that leads me to believe that he bought a team and it is not expansion. He also states it will be the Toronto affiliate.

Check the link around the 19:00 mark of the video

CBC Here and Now February 06, 2018


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## Nightsquad

slue said:


> In this latest interview, the owner Dean MacDonald states the other "27" teams. So that leads me to believe that he bought a team and it is not expansion. He also states it will be the Toronto affiliate.
> 
> Check the link around the 19:00 mark of the video
> 
> CBC Here and Now February 06, 2018




I feel for the guy, here he is having invested money and time and being left out in the cold by politicians and bureaucrats. Damn politicians and the business powers that be. Often times I find the so called "movers and shakers" to be nothing more then obstructionists unless they are giving the nods or have stake in such projects. This is why business, politics, and progress is such a cluster flop.


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## Growlers

A few weeks ago, we passed along the news that the Maple Leafs were reported to be in on a deal to bring an ECHL franchise to St. John’s, Newfoundland for next season.

Since then the process has hit a legal snag and may be falling victim to local politics as well.
The arena in St. John’s, the Mile One Centre, is owned by a corporation called St. John’s Sports and Entertainment (SJSE), which is in turn owned by the city itself, but run by a board of directors.
The only current sports tenant in Mile One is the St. John’s Edge, a basketball team in the National Basketball League of Canada. This is a league with a group of teams in Atlantic Canada and another group in small cities in Ontario.

The owners of the Edge also own the rights to lease Mile One for hockey for another year. They have sought a team to move to St. John’s, focusing on junior hockey, but they have failed to find any team that wants to move, and the QMJHL has not expressed any interest in expansion. No one believes an AHL team is viable there anymore.
Meanwhile, a competing group led by former executives with the AHL team that used to occupy the arena has reportedly struck a deal with the ECHL and the Toronto Maple Leafs and is ready to go for next season. They sought to break the Edge group’s hold on the lease rights to Mile One by demanding an exception be invoked to the exclusivity clause because they have a team and the rights holders don’t.

The Edge group countered by demanding the matter go to arbitration.
A few days ago, Robin Short of The Telegram in St. John’s wrote a column harshly criticizing the board of SJSE and council for not acting in the city’s interest by getting a paying customer into the arena this coming season.

To an outside observer, this all looks like a process that just needs to run its course, and the obvious decision will be made to lease the arena to the nice people who actually have a team instead of the other nice people who just really wish they did.

According to other comments from Short, he believes the arbitration process has not started at all.
It’s not clear, however, if the ECHL has a deadline on this decision or what the date might be. They are no strangers to tortured relocation or expansion processes. Their two most recent new teams have used relocation of an existing franchise as the method of startup. Both the Maine Mariners, who start playing this fall, and the Jacksonville Icemen, who are just completing their first season, were purchased from other cities and left dormant for a year.
In the case of the Mariners, the relocation of the Alaska Aces was all part of a plan to do major renovations on the arena in Portland, and given that the team is owned by Comcast, they had the funding to proceed without any hiccup. Jacksonville, on the other hand, only has a team because the first relocation fell through.
The Icemen sorted out their re-relocation by February 8 last year, so it’s possible to see that the St. John’s team is in jeopardy of having to wait a year if this does drag on now that it’s already March.
The Maple Leafs could, of course, simply renew the affiliation with the Orlando Solar Bears for another year and wait this out. The Leafs are silent as they always are on this issue, but one reason they may want this move is to exercise more control over the team and to eliminate visa delays when they move players up or down from the Marlies. One more year of status quo is not going to worry the Leafs unduly.
It does seem like the city of St. John’s is the loser if this arbitration drags on to the point that the end result is no team for next season. Another consideration for the city is that Mile One is 17 years old already, and eventually they will want to renovate it. Having a partner with a lot of money is always a good idea when that need arises. Whatever happens, this is just another lesson that when hockey arenas are involved, politics is always there too.

Source: St. John’s ECHL affiliate for the Maple Leafs is in limbo


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

slue said:


> A few weeks ago, we passed along the news that the Maple Leafs were reported to be in on a deal to bring an ECHL franchise to St. John’s, Newfoundland for next season.
> 
> Since then the process has hit a legal snag and may be falling victim to local politics as well.
> The arena in St. John’s, the Mile One Centre, is owned by a corporation called St. John’s Sports and Entertainment (SJSE), which is in turn owned by the city itself, but run by a board of directors.
> The only current sports tenant in Mile One is the St. John’s Edge, a basketball team in the National Basketball League of Canada. This is a league with a group of teams in Atlantic Canada and another group in small cities in Ontario.
> 
> The owners of the Edge also own the rights to lease Mile One for hockey for another year. They have sought a team to move to St. John’s, focusing on junior hockey, but they have failed to find any team that wants to move, and the QMJHL has not expressed any interest in expansion. No one believes an AHL team is viable there anymore.
> Meanwhile, a competing group led by former executives with the AHL team that used to occupy the arena has reportedly struck a deal with the ECHL and the Toronto Maple Leafs and is ready to go for next season. They sought to break the Edge group’s hold on the lease rights to Mile One by demanding an exception be invoked to the exclusivity clause because they have a team and the rights holders don’t.
> 
> The Edge group countered by demanding the matter go to arbitration.
> A few days ago, Robin Short of The Telegram in St. John’s wrote a column harshly criticizing the board of SJSE and council for not acting in the city’s interest by getting a paying customer into the arena this coming season.
> 
> To an outside observer, this all looks like a process that just needs to run its course, and the obvious decision will be made to lease the arena to the nice people who actually have a team instead of the other nice people who just really wish they did.
> 
> According to other comments from Short, he believes the arbitration process has not started at all.
> It’s not clear, however, if the ECHL has a deadline on this decision or what the date might be. They are no strangers to tortured relocation or expansion processes. Their two most recent new teams have used relocation of an existing franchise as the method of startup. Both the Maine Mariners, who start playing this fall, and the Jacksonville Icemen, who are just completing their first season, were purchased from other cities and left dormant for a year.
> In the case of the Mariners, the relocation of the Alaska Aces was all part of a plan to do major renovations on the arena in Portland, and given that the team is owned by Comcast, they had the funding to proceed without any hiccup. Jacksonville, on the other hand, only has a team because the first relocation fell through.
> The Icemen sorted out their re-relocation by February 8 last year, so it’s possible to see that the St. John’s team is in jeopardy of having to wait a year if this does drag on now that it’s already March.
> The Maple Leafs could, of course, simply renew the affiliation with the Orlando Solar Bears for another year and wait this out. The Leafs are silent as they always are on this issue, but one reason they may want this move is to exercise more control over the team and to eliminate visa delays when they move players up or down from the Marlies. One more year of status quo is not going to worry the Leafs unduly.
> It does seem like the city of St. John’s is the loser if this arbitration drags on to the point that the end result is no team for next season. Another consideration for the city is that Mile One is 17 years old already, and eventually they will want to renovate it. Having a partner with a lot of money is always a good idea when that need arises. Whatever happens, this is just another lesson that when hockey arenas are involved, politics is always there too.
> 
> Source: St. John’s ECHL affiliate for the Maple Leafs is in limbo




thanks, for the update.... 

however, Cross Arena has already done the renovation you mentioned and that happened 5 years ago after a 3 year timeline, that has nothing to do with the Aces transfer of territory or Comcast's ownership... the updated arena was ready by 2013/14, AS THE former tenant ended up transferring territory with AHL approval to the Colisee due to the renovations and a lease issue with a previous agreement independent of said renovation.... the tenant played that season in Lewiston and returned to Cross in 2014.... the former tenant was sold and transferred by the end of 2015/16, ending AHL in Portland, hence the updated timeline that landed Spectra the Aces as a tenant for 2018/19... btw, Spectra built the arena here in Portland and until 2013, the building remained virtually unchanged.


----------



## mk80

I don't think the Leafs are in a hurry to do anything, if they really wanted to have an easier time moving contracts without worrying about visas, the simplest thing to do is affiliate with or if they were so inclined purchase the Brampton Beast.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

mk80 said:


> I don't think the Leafs are in a hurry to do anything, if they really wanted to have an easier time moving contracts without worrying about visas, the simplest thing to do is affiliate with or if they were so inclined purchase the Brampton Beast.




idk, the Beast might not exist past this season or why MLSE would want to get involved there, as the existing contract that Stanford/MacDonald struck based off past history and bringing the Marlies along with that, btw, the Leafs have contracted with SJSE to play an alumni game at Mile One according to the release from Mile One... it would make sense because Orlando has not found a plan B REPLACEMENT for the Leafs since it was revealed that MLSE has agreed to that deal with THE PROSPECTIVE OWNERS of a St. John's hockey team.... nor has the Edge owners commented.


----------



## mk80

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> idk, the Beast might not exist past this season or why MLSE would want to get involved there, as the existing contract that Stanford/MacDonald struck based off past history and bringing the Marlies along with that, btw, the Leafs have contracted with SJSE to play an alumni game at Mile One according to the release from Mile One... it would make sense because Orlando has not found a plan B REPLACEMENT for the Leafs since it was revealed that MLSE has agreed to that deal with THE PROSPECTIVE OWNERS of a St. John's hockey team.... nor has the Edge owners commented.



I realize the Beast might not be around after this season.

My point is mainly that I don't think the Leafs are a strong factor into any discussion for St. John's if they were unhappy with Orlando, or wanted their ECHL prospects close to home or in Canada, I'm just saying that stashing them in Brampton would have been the easiest option. So while the Leafs may affiliate with a St. John's franchise once it comes about I just don't think they are a strong influence in any discussion between the city, league, arena lease owners, etc.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

mk80 said:


> I realize the Beast might not be around after this season.
> 
> My point is mainly that I don't think the Leafs are a strong factor into any discussion for St. John's if they were unhappy with Orlando, or wanted their ECHL prospects close to home or in Canada, I'm just saying that stashing them in Brampton would have been the easiest option. So while the Leafs may affiliate with a St. John's franchise once it comes about I just don't think they are a strong influence in any discussion between the city, league, arena lease owners, etc.




my point, is, and most writers/posters have said this, why not just renew the contract in Orlando depending on how long this arbitration process goes, no need to switch affiliations twice until it's really necessary, that relationship already exists. Most deals are year to year anyway, unless specified.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

website tentative is: www.prohockeyisback.com


----------



## DCW75

I like the idea of St. John's in the league. I do wonder, who pays for the teams to travel up there? I can't imagine how small market teams like Reading, Wheeling or Kalamazoo will be able to afford it.


----------



## Growlers

The team in St. John's does a travel subsidy to visiting teams. They did that when they were in the AHL as well.


----------



## 210

slue said:


> The team in St. John's does a travel subsidy to visiting teams. They did that when they were in the AHL as well.




Correct. As of a couple days ago what it covers and how much was still being discussed.


----------



## DudeWhereIsMakar

Would've been funny to see them affiliated with the Vancouver Canucks.

Would also love NHL to come to St. John's, but there's a very little chance that'd happen as of right now.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

DudeWhereIsMakar said:


> Would've been funny to see them affiliated with the Vancouver Canucks.
> 
> Would also love NHL to come to St. John's, but there's a very little chance that'd happen as of right now.



what?

none of the above post makes any realistic sense if you knew the history of St. John's


----------



## 210

This board needs a facepalm emoticon...


----------



## Woo Hockey

210 said:


> This board needs a facepalm emoticon...



Lets see if this works:

EDIT: Nevermind, emojis do not work.


----------



## JDogindy

DCW75 said:


> I like the idea of St. John's in the league. I do wonder, who pays for the teams to travel up there? I can't imagine how small market teams like Reading, Wheeling or Kalamazoo will be able to afford it.




Also, with the addition of Maine, as well as Manchester & Worcester, that's 2/3rds of their schedule right there.

I see this template:

*18 games against Maine Mariners
*12 games against Manchester Monarchs
*12 games against Worcester Railers
*10 games against Adirondack Thunder
*4 games against Brampton Beast
*4 games (three home) against Reading Royals

That leaves 12 games for the rest of the league, presumably on the road or inviting one team for a weekend set.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

JDogindy said:


> Also, with the additional of Maine, as well as Manchester & Worcester, that's 2/3rds of their schedule right there.



all 4 HAVE played each other since the Leafs first arrived in St. John's, JD, and typically, because of the ferry ride to get there.... teams play back to back, in fact, Portland was caught up there once in a blizzard, same thing occurred when Abbotsford had a franchise, that was the rule 210/Woo were referencing.... it's not uncommon... just not sure how the League will schedule that


----------



## Neill99

Anyone know when St.John's will announce there name and release there logo?.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Neill99 said:


> Anyone know when St.John's will announce there name and release there logo?.



still waiting, believe me


----------



## Woo Hockey

Neill99 said:


> Anyone know when St.John's will announce there name and release there logo?.



soon™


----------



## wildcat48

JDogindy said:


> Also, with the addition of Maine, as well as Manchester & Worcester, that's 2/3rds of their schedule right there.
> 
> I see this template:
> 
> *18 games against Maine Mariners
> *12 games against Manchester Monarchs
> *12 games against Worcester Railers
> *10 games against Adirondack Thunder
> *4 games against Brampton Beast
> *4 games (three home) against Reading Royals
> 
> That leaves 12 games for the rest of the league, presumably on the road or inviting one team for a weekend set.



There is no way I see Maine playing that many games against St. John's... Portland has to fly to St. John's from Boston with a stop in Toronto so it's likely they will play Brampton along with St. John's during a road trip. I'm thinking it will be more in the eight to 10 games with two trips to St. John's and stops in Brampton.


----------



## 210

Making a guess here (cough,cough) but I'd expect Maine, Manchester, and Worcester to have two trips each to St John's, with each being a Wed/Fri/Sat or Sun series, with a game or two in Brampton before flying from Toronto to St John's and one (or two) in Brampton on the way back...


----------



## Wince

slue said:


> The team in St. John's does a travel subsidy to visiting teams. They did that when they were in the AHL as well.




Same when the Q was here.


----------



## Growlers

Anyone have any update or news on this ?


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

slue said:


> Anyone have any update or news on this ?



still waiting for Deacon Investments, LLC I suspect


----------



## Growlers

What could they be waiting on ? Its been a month since it was announced and I know time is short.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

slue said:


> What could they be waiting on ? Its been a month since it was announced and I know time is short.



Orlando is still playing


----------



## Growlers

So they would have to wait for them to be out to announce the affiliate change?


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

slue said:


> So they would have to wait for them to be out to announce the affiliate change?



possibly, Greenville needs one as well, as the Rangers moved to Portland....


----------



## Growlers

Any guess who that will be ?


----------



## royals119

slue said:


> Any guess who that will be ?



Well, we know the Avalanche won't be affiliated with the Eagles in the ECHL next year, since they will be in the AHL, and the Predators broke their agreement with Norfolk during the season. The Blue Jackets don't have an ECHL affiliate. The Panthers, Lightning and Senators all have unofficial/secondary deals this year. Those would be the six most likely candidates to get a new affiliate. 
Orlando, Greenville, and Norfolk will be looking for affiliates. 
The Preds sent players to Atlanta once they broke with Norfolk, so they might continue to have a relationship, either as a primary or secondary. If it become primary then the Bruins might look to go elsewhere. I think they might have another year on their contract, but as we have seen before, contracts can be broken.
Of course there could be an agreement elsewhere that ends or gets broken too, so other teams could join this game of musical chairs.


----------



## Growlers

> *As weather heats up, news about ECHL team in St. John's should do the same*
> 
> 
> *Minor pro hockey club expected to reveal nickname in early May, but there is much more to do to establish an identity*
> 
> Over the last month, it’s been relatively quiet when it comes to news of the ECHL team set to begin play in St. John’s this fall, but that doesn’t mean there hasn’t been work with regards to establishing a new minor professional franchise for the city.
> 
> For one thing, the ECHL has already begun fashioning a 2018-19 regular-season schedule that includes dates at Mile One Centre in St. John’s.
> As well, the new team is thought to be at least close to selecting its nickname and colours — in fact, a moniker may have already been picked — but whatever the case, word is revelation of those and other matters relating to establishing the franchise probably won’t happen for at least couple of weeks.
> One of the reasons could be the time of the year.
> 
> The National Basketball League of Canada’s St. John’s Edge, whose ownership group has a partnership agreement with the ECHL club, are in the midst of a playoff run. As well, the Toronto Maple Leafs, who will be affiliated with the St. John’s team, are involved in the post-season at three levels — the NHL, American Hockey League (Toronto Marlies) and ECHL (Orlando Solar Bears) — and wouldn’t be expected to formally announce a new ECHL hook-up until at least the conclusion of the Solar Bears’ season.




Source: As weather heats up, news about ECHL team in St. John's should do the same | The Telegram


----------



## UnofficialTGnome

So Mile One has been secured, they are going to share with the Edge, so now we just have to wait for the official announcement of the Name, Logo, and Coach. I figure we will be waiting until the cup has been raised so as not to take anything away for the playoffs spotlight.


----------



## Neill99

Anyone have any updates on the name and logo?.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Neill99 said:


> Anyone have any updates on the name and logo?.



MAY, Neill.... Leafs/Marlies/Solar Bears all still active


----------



## Nightsquad

Neill99 said:


> Anyone have any updates on the name and logo?.




How about the St. John's Breakers, St. John's Bergs, or the St. John's anything? I just love the fact that great community is joining the ECHL!


----------



## JungleJON

St John Warts?


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

ok, folks... you want an update: Introducing the 2018/19 NEWFOUNDLAND GROWLERS


----------



## JMCx4

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> ok, folks... you want an update: Introducing the 2018/19 NEWFOUNDLAND GROWLERS



Here, here!


----------



## Growlers

*Newfoundland Growlers looks to be the name choice for new ECHL team*


We don't know what the logo of the new ECHL team in St. John's will be, but with a nickname like Growlers — one that can be applied to both animals and pieces of icebergs — maybe it wouldn't be that surprising to see a polar bear incorporated. — Canadian Press file photo/Sean Kilpatrick
*Club going with a double-meaning moniker and provincial identity*

Growlers.
That is set to be the nickname of the new minor professional hockey team coming to St. John’s this fall.
But while there will be those intrigued by the double entendre of a moniker that can apply to both fierce animals and icebergs (a growler is a small piece or remnant of an iceberg), the most interesting aspect of the name of the ECHL club might be what comes in front.
Newfoundland.

Look for the Newfoundland Growlers to eventually be announced as the choice after a month-and-a-half of consideration by the team’s ownership group.
Shamrocks, Storm and Regiment were three nicknames under consideration — domain names relating to those had been registered in mid-March — and there were those, at least from the outside, plumping for Capitals/Caps or Maple Leafs, the names of local senior entries and the former American Hockey League team from St. John’s, respectively. The latter also had applications since the ECHL team will be affiliated with the Toronto Maple Leafs.

However, the delay would indicate the ownership was never really sold on any of those choices, and it’s now obvious there was internal debate about whether the geographical reference should be city- or provincial-based.

They’ve gone with the latter.

The Idea Factory, which has been handling such matters for the team, registered newfoundlandgrowlers.com as a domain name earlier this month.
Word was the nickname announcement, along with that of team colours and a logo (a bear on floating ice, perhaps?) might be officially made in early May.
However, it could be the timing of some formal revelations relating to the new hockey club are tied to the length of the playoffs runs of the National Basketball League of Canada’s St. John’s Edge, whose ownership group has partnered with their ECHL counterparts, and the Orlando Solar Bears, the Maple Leafs’ current ECHL affiliate.

Source: Newfoundland Growlers looks to be the name choice for new ECHL team | The Telegram


----------



## royals119

OK locals, what is the correct pronunciation of the province name? I've heard new-FOUND-land and NEWF-in-lind. Just want to make sure I'm saying it right. 

(BTW, Reading is Red-ing, not Reed-ing.)


----------



## Growlers

Best way to explain it is. The way to pronounce it is the same as Understand. So Un-Der-Stand - New-Found-Land


----------



## JMCx4

royals119 said:


> ... (BTW, Reading is Red-ing, not Reed-ing.)



That ain't what Margaret McNamara taught us U.S. kids of the 60's ...


----------



## royals119

JMCx4 said:


> That ain't what Margaret McNamara taught us U.S. kids of the 60's ...




I blame the English - Reading PA is named for Reading England. Before I moved here I always said it wrong too.

Or maybe it is just a central Pennsylvania thing - there is a nearby city named Lebanon. Outsiders will get corrected if they pronounce it like the country in the middle east. It is Leb-nin, not leb-a-non. Lancaster PA is lankister (a is pronounced like Hank, not Land, and the emphasis is on the "kiss")


----------



## JMCx4

royals119 said:


> I blame the English - Reading PA is named for Reading England. Before I moved here I always said it wrong too.
> 
> Or maybe it is just a central Pennsylvania thing - there is a nearby city named Lebanon. Outsiders will get corrected if they pronounce it like the country in the middle east. It is Leb-nin, not leb-a-non. Lancaster PA is lankister (a is pronounced like Hank, not Land, and the emphasis is on the "kiss")



Visit St. Louis sometime, and listen to how today's natives skewer the beautiful French names from the days of settlement: Bellefontaine = "Bell-FOWN-tihn"; Gravois = "GRA-voiz"; Creve Coeur = "KREEV-Kohr"; Chouteau = "SHOTE-oe"; Carondelet = "Curh-AHN-duh-lett"; Laclede = "LACK-leed." And then there is the region's embarrassing pronunciation of the interstate highway that bisects the metro area: "Highway Farty-Far."


----------



## wildcat48

royals119 said:


> NEWF-in-lind



This way.... My mother is from Marystown/Burin and it would drive her nuts to hear people say New-FOUND-land.


----------



## BigBadBread

As a local here New-Fin-Land or New-Fown-Land is probably the most accurate way IMO to pronounce Newfoundland without sounding like fool to the locals. Nothing worse than hearing "Newf-In-LInd or Newf-In-LUnd".

As for the Newfoundland Growlers, if that's the name I won't be upset. Sure it probably could be better but it can be worse as well. Any name you choose for a new team will be loved/hated anyway.

At least it's original and has lots of potential for different logo/jersey designs and colors.


----------



## IceCapsFanNL

This is a typical growler


----------



## JimXVX

As someone who lived in Newfoundland for a while when I was a kid I always root for any pro/junior team from the island & so I'm excited for the new ECHL outfit. However that being said I did smile when heard the team's name; I suppose it's safe to assume that Growler does not have the same slang meaning as it does here in the UK where it refers to a certain intimate area of the female anatomy!


----------



## JMCx4

JimXVX said:


> ... I suppose it's safe to assume that Growler does not have the same slang meaning as it does here in the UK where it refers to a certain intimate area of the female anatomy!



Can't wait to see THAT alternate logo as a shoulder patch.


----------



## ckg927

*upon hearing the likely nickname of St. John's ECHL team, I slap my head so loudly that you can use it to guide ships into the harbour....*

That. Is. The. DUMBEST. Nickname. I. Have. EVER. Heard. For. ANY. Sports. Team. In. My. Life.

What's their marketing slogan going to be..."Win or lose, we drink the booze"?


----------



## 210

ckg927 said:


> *upon hearing the likely nickname of St. John's ECHL team, I slap my head so loudly that you can use it to guide ships into the harbour....*
> 
> That. Is. The. DUMBEST. Nickname. I. Have. EVER. Heard. For. ANY. Sports. Team. In. My. Life.
> 
> *What's their marketing slogan going to be..."Win or lose, we drink the booze"?*




From your lips to God's ears, we can only hope...


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

210 said:


> From your lips to God's ears, we can only hope...



Isn't that the slogan for the Worcester Railers HC...... Drink the kool-aid at DCU Center it won't win a Kelly Cup


----------



## ckg927

210 said:


> From your lips to God's ears, we can only hope...




You DO know I was being snarky, right?


----------



## Neill99

Is the name and logo going announced this sometime?.Does anyone when?.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Neill99 said:


> Is the name and logo going announced this sometime?.Does anyone when?.



Neill, NO news until at least June..... depends on how long the Marlies and Solar Bears remain active.... as it stands Orlando is playing Florida and the Marlies are playing Syracuse in the North Division Finals.... nothing can be announced until the contract with Orlando expires (much like Greenville ceding its affiliation to Portland by mutual agreement with the Rangers with the dual pressers between Greenville and Portland).... the longer the Leaf affiliates play add a week or 2 before that's official.... we still don't know where or if Greenville or Orlando's next affiliation is coming from, but I expect both likely won't be unaffiliated, even though that's an option.


----------



## 210

ckg927 said:


> You DO know I was being snarky, right?




You don't say...


----------



## 210

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> Isn't that the slogan for the Worcester Railers HC...... Drink the kool-aid at DCU Center it won't win a Kelly Cup




I'm guessing you missed the joke...although that doesn't actually surprise me.


----------



## Captain Crash

Neill99 said:


> Is the name and logo going announced this sometime?.Does anyone when?.




I think it's safe to say that as soon as someone hears about it they'll post in this thread, thus making it unnecessary to ask about it over and over.


----------



## McDrailers

Growlers....

Grow...lers. 


a person or thing that growls.
a small iceberg that rises little above the water

Seriously bys wtf? You had SO many good options, Shamrocks would have been amazing. Hell i'd take the St.John's Caps at this point? 

Wtf is a growler supposed to be? If it's a polar bear I want the FULL marketing team to get close enough to a polar bear to see if its growls... 

Full on irrational mad right now.


----------



## royals119

Newfy OilPenguin said:


> Growlers....
> 
> Grow...lers.
> 
> 
> a person or thing that growls.
> a small iceberg that rises little above the water
> 
> Seriously bys wtf? You had SO many good options, Shamrocks would have been amazing. Hell i'd take the St.John's Caps at this point?
> 
> Wtf is a growler supposed to be? If it's a polar bear I want the FULL marketing team to get close enough to a polar bear to see if its growls...
> 
> Full on irrational mad right now.



You forgot a definition.
A *growler* (/ˈɡraʊlər/) is a glass, ceramic, or stainless steel jug used to transport draft beer in the United States, Canada,[1] Australia, Brazil and other countries. They are commonly sold at breweries and brewpubs as a means to sell take-out craft beer. Rarely, beers are bottled in growlers for retail sale. The significant growth of craft breweries and the growing popularity of home brewing has also led to an emerging market for the sale of collectible growlers. Some U.S. grocery stores, convenience stores, bars and restaurants have growler filling stations.

What a marketing opportunity! Put a craft beer pub in or adjacent to the arena and sell growlers of Growlers beer. Put the team name and logo on the jugs. In this case the whole marketing team just needs to get close enough to the beer to see if it tastes good. They could go with some kind of mythologic looking half dog-half bear creature as the logo. At least is something unique, but not stupid, like minor league baseball teams have been doing lately (Rumble Ponies, Lugnuts, Jumbo Shrimp, Rubber Ducks, Yard Goats, etc)

I like Growlers, just waiting to see the logo and colors. Hopefully they don't go too cartoony with it.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

NL fans:

did you forget the uproar over Ice Caps when that was announced and skewered world-wide, why would Iced Coffee be a nickname?


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

royals119 said:


> You forgot a definition.
> A *growler* (/ˈɡraʊlər/) is a glass, ceramic, or stainless steel jug used to transport draft beer in the United States, Canada,[1] Australia, Brazil and other countries. They are commonly sold at breweries and brewpubs as a means to sell take-out craft beer. Rarely, beers are bottled in growlers for retail sale. The significant growth of craft breweries and the growing popularity of home brewing has also led to an emerging market for the sale of collectible growlers. Some U.S. grocery stores, convenience stores, bars and restaurants have growler filling stations.
> 
> What a marketing opportunity! Put a craft beer pub in or adjacent to the arena and sell growlers of Growlers beer. Put the team name and logo on the jugs. In this case the whole marketing team just needs to get close enough to the beer to see if it tastes good. They could go with some kind of mythologic looking half dog-half bear creature as the logo. At least is something unique, but not stupid, like minor league baseball teams have been doing lately (Rumble Ponies, Lugnuts, Jumbo Shrimp, Rubber Ducks, Yard Goats, etc)
> 
> I like Growlers, just waiting to see the logo and colors. Hopefully they don't go too cartoony with it.



Royals:

you forget some here also watch Hartford and Binghamton Baseball.... since Portland is in its 25th season and going to these unique names beats calling them after the affiliation which has also become prevalent.... it's a wonder the name "Royals" wasn't jettisoned in Reading when your baseball team is the Fightins, also in the same league as Hartford/Binghamton/Portland..... who needs a chicken logo in Reading, even if it is the Phillies affiliation.


----------



## Woo Hockey

royals119 said:


> What a marketing opportunity! Put a craft beer pub in or adjacent to the arena and sell growlers of Growlers beer. Put the team name and logo on the jugs. In this case the whole marketing team just needs to get close enough to the beer to see if it tastes good. They could go with some kind of mythologic looking half dog-half bear creature as the logo. At least is something unique, but not stupid, like minor league baseball teams have been doing lately (Rumble Ponies, Lugnuts, Jumbo Shrimp, Rubber Ducks, Yard Goats, etc)




Love this idea. Getting something involved with local businesses as a part of your team would be pretty big, and beer is always good too. I haven't seen a whole lot of breweries getting involved with sports aside from the InBev/Coors brands.


----------



## royals119

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> Royals:
> 
> you forget some here also watch Hartford and Binghamton Baseball.... since Portland is in its 25th season and going to these unique names beats calling them after the affiliation which has also become prevalent.... it's a wonder the name "Royals" wasn't jettisoned in Reading when your baseball team is the Fightins, also in the same league as Hartford/Binghamton/Portland..... who needs a chicken logo in Reading, even if it is the Phillies affiliation.



It's OK if you watch baseball, I won't hold it against you. 

I'm not a baseball fan at all, so I don't really care about the team or their name, but I can tell you the change was unpopular with a lot of people here. Some cancelled their season tickets, and some long time employees quit when they announced it. 

Just for the sake of being correct, the logo is not a chicken, it is an ostrich. Personally, I'm more traditional, so I like teams that use their major league team's name. Reading Phillies, or even Reading Fightin Phills beats Rumble Ponies, that's for sure. I'm not a fan of Sea Dogs as a team name either, although I had to google "Portland Minor League Baseball" to find out what their name was. 

If we are comparing, Reading has been the home to the Phillies AA affiliate for 50 years, so twice as long as Portland, and they had other baseball teams here before the Phillies too.

Not sure why you think the Royals would change their name due to the baseball team making a change. The Royals and the Fightin Phills have nothing to do with each other, except for being located in the same city.


----------



## McDrailers

royals119 said:


> You
> 
> What a marketing opportunity! Put a craft beer pub in or adjacent to the arena and sell growlers of Growlers beer. .






Woo Hockey said:


> Love this idea. Getting something involved with local businesses as a part of your team would be pretty big, and beer is always good too. I haven't seen a whole lot of breweries getting involved with sports aside from the InBev/Coors brands.





I'm not sure if you two are familiar with the location of the arena in the big city of Sin Jawns. But about 300-400 steps from the rink is the world wide known "George Street". I suggest googling it .

If ANY team is going to do a beer deal, it'll be this one.

Also @CHRDANHUTCH, I remember that. The IceCap Tims' fan made jersey. Hilarious


----------



## royals119

Newfy OilPenguin said:


> I'm not sure if you two are familiar with the location of the arena in the big city of Sin Jawns. But about 300-400 steps from the rink is the world wide known "George Street". I suggest googling it .
> 
> If ANY team is going to do a beer deal, it'll be this one.



Looks like a fun place to visit. My wife and I used to talk to Rob Slaney a bit when he played here, and he would always tell us how much he loved Newfoundland, although he never mentioned George St. He is from Upper Island Cove though, so maybe he didn't get down to the "big city" too often. Maybe we will make a trip up there at some point to catch a Royals game and do some sight seeing.


----------



## McDrailers

royals119 said:


> Looks like a fun place to visit. My wife and I used to talk to Rob Slaney a bit when he played here, and he would always tell us how much he loved Newfoundland, although he never mentioned George St. He is from Upper Island Cove though, so maybe he didn't get down to the "big city" too often. Maybe we will make a trip up there at some point to catch a Royals game and do some sight seeing.




I just recently moved to the West Coast of the Island after living in St.John's for 5/6 years. I'll move back eventually. Lovely spot. For sure George Street is a must see, it's an interesting mix of dance clubs and good ol places to wet the whistle.


----------



## UnofficialTGnome

So looks like official announcement may be made tomorrow per @prohockeyisback


----------



## Nightsquad

royals119 said:


> You forgot a definition.
> A *growler* (/ˈɡraʊlər/) is a glass, ceramic, or stainless steel jug used to transport draft beer in the United States, Canada,[1] Australia, Brazil and other countries. They are commonly sold at breweries and brewpubs as a means to sell take-out craft beer. Rarely, beers are bottled in growlers for retail sale. The significant growth of craft breweries and the growing popularity of home brewing has also led to an emerging market for the sale of collectible growlers. Some U.S. grocery stores, convenience stores, bars and restaurants have growler filling stations.
> 
> What a marketing opportunity! Put a craft beer pub in or adjacent to the arena and sell growlers of Growlers beer. Put the team name and logo on the jugs. In this case the whole marketing team just needs to get close enough to the beer to see if it tastes good. They could go with some kind of mythologic looking half dog-half bear creature as the logo. At least is something unique, but not stupid, like minor league baseball teams have been doing lately (Rumble Ponies, Lugnuts, Jumbo Shrimp, Rubber Ducks, Yard Goats, etc)
> 
> I like Growlers, just waiting to see the logo and colors. Hopefully they don't go too cartoony with it.




I agree Growlers isn't bad compared to the Jumbo Shrimp, Yard Goats, and OMG Rumble Ponies lol. Rumble Ponies, whom ever came up with that needs a head check lol, they should have just stuck with the Mets on that one. Growlers isn't too bad, it has potential to grow on you at the least. Too bad they couldn't use Ice Caps, or even a throw back to the St. John's Maple Leafs (AHL days).


----------



## Neill99

UnofficialTGnome said:


> So looks like official announcement may be made tomorrow per @prohockeyisback



How come I can't find this any where else?.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

UnofficialTGnome said:


> So looks like official announcement may be made tomorrow per @prohockeyisback



no, Orlando isn't done nor are the Marlies, since I believe the deal involves Toronto's AHL franchise (the original Maple Leafs), BECAUSE as I understand it, the Marlies could be returning for a couple of games at Mile One, just as you've seen AHL Teams play select games in the NHL Arena, as Buffalo did with Portland a few years back, the Marlies themselves have utilized the ACC at various times.... Philadelphia used to do that with the Phantoms before the relocation to Allentown and the PPL Center when the Spectrum was still an active venue....

I wouldn't be looking for an official launch of this franchise for at least the next 3 weeks to a month depending on how long the the other two franchises continue playing.... one, because the way the agreement is structured and two, the exit from Orlando, that affiliation is still active, and doesn't expire until the current season ends for Orlando... just because the league approved it... it won't be happening tomorrow, unless both the Marlies and Solar Bears were suddenly eliminated in the last day or hours (that's not happening because the Marlies are playing Syracuse).


----------



## Neill99

UnofficialTGnome said:


> So looks like official announcement may be made tomorrow per @prohockeyisback



Dude where did you info from?.There's no announcement at all I was told May 22 is the day for the name and logo.


----------



## IceCapsFanNL

Seasons Tickets go on sale tomorrow.

Pro Hockey is Back - ECHL St. John's

My usual seats will be $19 a seat. About $10 less than the IceCaps


----------



## Growlers

Neill99 said:


> I was told May 22 is the day for the name and logo.





Is this confirmed? Very excited for this!


----------



## royals119

IceCapsFanNL said:


> Seasons Tickets go on sale tomorrow.
> 
> Pro Hockey is Back - ECHL St. John's
> 
> My usual seats will be $19 a seat. About $10 less than the IceCaps



*plus HST and MileOne service fees. Hopefully they don't hit you too bad with the extra charges. Sounds like they should do well with Season Tickets if they are charging that much less than the AHL team.


----------



## Growlers

These are the season ticket prices for the new ECHL team in St. John's. How do they compare to other teams in the league?


----------



## JMCx4

slue said:


> These are the season ticket prices for the new ECHL team in St. John's. How do they compare to other teams in the league? ...



Comparing to the other Canadian ECHL club, the Beast full season ticket packages for 2018-19 are "Starting at $255" (I presume in CDN$). That's the extent of the advertised price points on their website.

The Maine Mariners (the other team entering the League in 2018) are offering full season packages for a 1 Year Plan ranging from US$468 to US$756. Their 3 Year Plans include a US$36 discount per season.

Wheeling's 2018-19 packages for new full season ticket holders range from US$468 to $US972. The Nailers apply a US$36 discount to season ticket renewals.

I'll leave the other teams' numbers to more frequent posters who are fans up your way.


----------



## royals119




----------



## UnofficialTGnome

Neill99 said:


> Dude where did you info from?.There's no announcement at all I was told May 22 is the day for the name and logo.



I was on twitter and saw @prohockeyisback tweet the day I posted this.


----------



## UnofficialTGnome

sorry, I was wrong, guess the announcement they meant was the season tickets going onsale, dummy me.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

UnofficialTGnome said:


> sorry, I was wrong, guess the announcement they meant was the season tickets going onsale, dummy me.



likely from the Telegram article today, it won't be too much longer before @Prohockeyisback gets redirected to Newfoundland Growlers.


----------



## UnofficialTGnome

Ok, since Mariners and Admirals have released their home opener opponents, has anyone heard who will be playing the Growlers?


----------



## UnofficialTGnome

Surprised they announced prior to cup being raised, but they have done it in the past.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

UnofficialTGnome said:


> Ok, since Mariners and Admirals have released their home opener opponents, has anyone heard who will be playing the Growlers?



all teams or league member teams have done this independent of the master schedule release.... we just don't know yet when NG goes live


----------



## royals119

UnofficialTGnome said:


> Surprised they announced prior to cup being raised, but they have done it in the past.



I'm not sure why you would be surprised by something that you admit you know has been done in the past. There is another thread in this forum called ECHL 18/19 schedule where this very issue has been discussed in depth. The entire league schedule will be released very soon.


----------



## Woo Hockey

NEWFOUNDLAND GROWLERS Trademark Application of ECHL Inc. - Serial Number 87888734 :: Justia Trademarks

There's been some activity in the last few weeks with the Trademark


----------



## Growlers

Should hear some more news on the Maple Leafs affiliation with St. John's now that Orlando Solar Bears are eliminated.


----------



## Nightsquad

Woo Hockey said:


> NEWFOUNDLAND GROWLERS Trademark Application of ECHL Inc. - Serial Number 87888734 :: Justia Trademarks
> 
> There's been some activity in the last few weeks with the Trademark




I hate how the ECHL has the team name rights, I don't like it whatsoever. It is definitely smart on their part, but if you are a franchise owner that almost eliminates your ability to maintain your brand should you decide to switch leagues. At the very least you would likely have to pay the ECHL to retain your teams name and brand. Not sure if that's for new or expansion clubs but I just don't like it.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

slue said:


> Should hear some more news on the Maple Leafs affiliation with St. John's now that Orlando Solar Bears are eliminated.



uh, Toronto's Marlies are still playing, since I believe they are part of the agreement with Deacon/Edge


----------



## Growlers

How are they part of the agreement? I heard some AHL games might be played at Mile One. But would they need to wait for the Mariles to finish if they are just a small part of it all?


----------



## 210

slue said:


> How are they part of the agreement? I heard some AHL games might be played at Mile One. But would they need to wait for the Mariles to finish if they are just a small part of it all?




No, they don't need to wait for the Marlies.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

slue said:


> How are they part of the agreement? I heard some AHL games might be played at Mile One. But would they need to wait for the Mariles to finish if they are just a small part of it all?



if that's the agreement, as presented, then yes, SJSE HAS TO BE NOTIFIED as they're the operators at Mile One, so I would say that's why you haven't heard a launch announcement, because do we even know how many games the agreement stipulates the Marlies agreed to, which then has to be summarily approved by the AHL, which isn't a great detail, but depends on what Deacon's lease states....


----------



## Woo Hockey

Nightsquad said:


> I hate how the ECHL has the team name rights, I don't like it whatsoever. It is definitely smart on their part, but if you are a franchise owner that almost eliminates your ability to maintain your brand should you decide to switch leagues. At the very least you would likely have to pay the ECHL to retain your teams name and brand. Not sure if that's for new or expansion clubs but I just don't like it.




Not sure of the logistics of it but the league retains the rights should a team name be brought back for any reason. An example would be if Elmira Jackals or the Quad City Mallards ever made a comeback. 

I believe the Colorado Eagles organization will get the rights (not the AHL) to the name when they switch leagues after this season.


----------



## Avsrule2022

Woo Hockey said:


> Not sure of the logistics of it but the league retains the rights should a team name be brought back for any reason. An example would be if Elmira Jackals or the Quad City Mallards ever made a comeback.
> 
> I believe the Colorado Eagles organization will get the rights (not the AHL) to the name when they switch leagues after this season.




Yes, the Eagles had to give up the rights to their name when they joined the ECHL. My understanding is they have to pay to get it back when they leave. Sounds kind of like extortion to me lol.


----------



## Captain Crash

Woo Hockey said:


> Not sure of the logistics of it but the league retains the rights should a team name be brought back for any reason. An example would be if Elmira Jackals or the Quad City Mallards ever made a comeback.
> 
> I believe the Colorado Eagles organization will get the rights (not the AHL) to the name when they switch leagues after this season.




Yup. This happened to Johnstown as well. The ECHL kept the Chiefs name when they relocated. When the NAHL moved in, they intended to purchase the name back bu balked at the ECHL's asking price. Thus we have the derivative Tomahawks.


----------



## Captain Crash

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> if that's the agreement, as presented, then yes, SJSE HAS TO BE NOTIFIED as they're the operators at Mile One, so I would say that's why you haven't heard a launch announcement, because do we even know how many games the agreement stipulates the Marlies agreed to, which then has to be summarily approved by the AHL, which isn't a great detail, but depends on what Deacon's lease states....




Couldn't they just announce the ECHL affiliation first then any potential Marlies games later? They don't _have_ to be announced all at once.


----------



## JMCx4

Avsrule2002 said:


> Yes, the Eagles had to give up the rights to their name when they joined the ECHL. My understanding is they have to pay to get it back when they leave. Sounds kind of like extortion to me lol.



Extortion, legalities, same-same.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Captain Crash said:


> Couldn't they just announce the ECHL affiliation first then any potential Marlies games later? They don't _have_ to be announced all at once.



it's been known for months, though, CC, just as Colorado swapping leagues, is pretty much well-known, but then again, remember, what almost derailed this franchise if the Edge and Deacon hadn't settled and gone to arbitration, would there be a St. John's franchise at all....

look at what Spectra had to go through and Portland is further ahead of this franchise at present, nevermind the lead time


----------



## Captain Crash

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> it's been known for months, though, CC, just as Colorado swapping leagues, is pretty much well-known, but then again, remember, what almost derailed this franchise if the Edge and Deacon hadn't settled and gone to arbitration, would there be a St. John's franchise at all....
> 
> look at what Spectra had to go through and Portland is further ahead of this franchise at present, nevermind the lead time




But like... none of this prevents them from announcing names, logos, or affiliations before announcing any future Marlies games.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Captain Crash said:


> But like... none of this prevents them from announcing names, logos, or affiliations before announcing any future Marlies games.



then why hasn't been officially announced then, CC, see the point,


----------



## 210

Perhaps Brian McKenna isn't available and they don't want to announce without him. Or maybe the people from Toronto aren't available yet. Maybe the ECHL has asked them not to announce until a certain date to keep the focus on the playoffs.

There are tons of potential reasons why they haven't announced yet.


----------



## royals119

I agree. There is some reason why they are holding off, but I doubt it is the Marlies playoff games. Maybe they are looking to get maximum exposure in the newspaper, or local TV news coverage, and they are waiting until they are ready to start running advertising to get the biggest bang for their buck. Maybe their sales staff isn't in place, or fully trained yet, and they don't want potential STH's flooding the office with calls and emails and having everyone get a bad first impression. Maybe one of the owners had a month long cruise to Alaska scheduled and they are waiting for him to return.


----------



## Captain Crash

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> then why hasn't been officially announced then, CC, see the point,




They are waiting to announce until three unicorns crap marshmallows at center ice. Don't believe me? Then why hasn't it been officially announced yet? See the point?


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Captain Crash said:


> They are waiting to announce until three unicorns crap marshmallows at center ice. Don't believe me? Then why hasn't it been officially announced yet? See the point?



YOU DON'T GET IT... Toronto isn't totally done, CC, because apparently you don't get how an operation works logistically, Portland watched Manchester/Adirondack transition into here.... then we watched Worcester start from basically where St.John's is starting from 2 years ago, even then, it took them another full year to get the logistics of being awarded a franchise and look what they accomplished....

I'm with royals, here, we don't know logistically how Orlando's perception changed since it was publically known in inner circles from the folks diligence in NL that this was coming.... It's like Greenville, in a way, I don't think those internal discussions with the Rangers , and the dual pressers that ended that agreement, same with the Devos family, who own the Solar Bears, just as they did previously when Orlando went on hiatus after the dissolution of the IHL.


----------



## Captain Crash

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> YOU DON'T GET IT... Toronto isn't totally done, CC, because apparently you don't get how an operation works logistically, Portland watched Manchester/Adirondack transition into here.... then we watched Worcester start from basically where St.John's is starting from 2 years ago, even then, it took them another full year to get the logistics of being awarded a franchise and look what they accomplished....
> 
> I'm with royals, here, we don't know logistically how Orlando's perception changed since it was publically known in inner circles from the folks diligence in NL that this was coming.... It's like Greenville, in a way, I don't think those internal discussions with the Rangers , and the dual pressers that ended that agreement, same with the Devos family, who own the Solar Bears, just as they did previously when Orlando went on hiatus after the dissolution of the IHL.




You're right, I don't get it. I don't get what _any_ of that has to do with them choosing to announce the name of the team. That's probably because none of it does. As other commenters pointed out, there are a ton of reasons why this might be the case and we will probably never know. It's not even a big deal at all. It's just highly, highly unlikely that it's because of a potential Marlies neutral site game because there's really no reason why that would affect it. I think you just came up with a reason and don't feel like abandoning it.


----------



## 210

Captain Crash said:


> They are waiting to announce until three unicorns crap marshmallows at center ice. Don't believe me? Then why hasn't it been officially announced yet? See the point?




Rainbow marshmallows or regular marshmallows? Ummm...asking for a friend...


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Captain Crash said:


> You're right, I don't get it. I don't get what _any_ of that has to do with them choosing to announce the name of the team. That's probably because none of it does. As other commenters pointed out, there are a ton of reasons why this might be the case and we will probably never know. It's not even a big deal at all. It's just highly, highly unlikely that it's because of a potential Marlies neutral site game because there's really no reason why that would affect it. I think you just came up with a reason and don't feel like abandoning it.



if you feel like being civil instead of sarcastic, good day.


----------



## 210

Not a single word in that post was sarcasm. But, you know, whatever...


----------



## wildcat48




----------



## Growlers

Pro Hockey is back. The temporary page for the new ECHL team in St. John's Posted this today. So it seems the logo and team will be announced very soon.


----------



## Neill99

W


slue said:


> Pro Hockey is back. The temporary page for the new ECHL team in St. John's Posted this today. So it seems the logo and team will be announced very soon.



Hi what day is the name and logo being released?.


----------



## Growlers

Not sure. Should know more info tomorrow


----------



## Neill99

What day are they going to release the name and logo?.Where's another hint or more updates on when


----------



## Growlers

No news yet today. All the updates should be here Pro Hockey is Back (@prohockeyisback) | Twitter


----------



## SemireliableSource

Yesterday's post was 8 and today is 7. Like they said, check their Instagram, not Twitter.


----------



## Growler

Newfoundland Growlers looks to be the name


----------



## royals119

Growler said:


> Newfoundland Growlers looks to be the name



You have any new evidence for that, or just the same rumors from this earlier post?


slue said:


> *Newfoundland Growlers looks to be the name choice for new ECHL team*
> 
> 
> We don't know what the logo of the new ECHL team in St. John's will be, but with a nickname like Growlers — one that can be applied to both animals and pieces of icebergs — maybe it wouldn't be that surprising to see a polar bear incorporated. — Canadian Press file photo/Sean Kilpatrick
> *Club going with a double-meaning moniker and provincial identity*
> 
> Growlers.
> That is set to be the nickname of the new minor professional hockey team coming to St. John’s this fall.
> But while there will be those intrigued by the double entendre of a moniker that can apply to both fierce animals and icebergs (a growler is a small piece or remnant of an iceberg), the most interesting aspect of the name of the ECHL club might be what comes in front.
> Newfoundland.
> 
> Look for the Newfoundland Growlers to eventually be announced as the choice after a month-and-a-half of consideration by the team’s ownership group.
> Shamrocks, Storm and Regiment were three nicknames under consideration — domain names relating to those had been registered in mid-March — and there were those, at least from the outside, plumping for Capitals/Caps or Maple Leafs, the names of local senior entries and the former American Hockey League team from St. John’s, respectively. The latter also had applications since the ECHL team will be affiliated with the Toronto Maple Leafs.
> 
> However, the delay would indicate the ownership was never really sold on any of those choices, and it’s now obvious there was internal debate about whether the geographical reference should be city- or provincial-based.
> 
> They’ve gone with the latter.
> 
> The Idea Factory, which has been handling such matters for the team, registered newfoundlandgrowlers.com as a domain name earlier this month.
> Word was the nickname announcement, along with that of team colours and a logo (a bear on floating ice, perhaps?) might be officially made in early May.
> However, it could be the timing of some formal revelations relating to the new hockey club are tied to the length of the playoffs runs of the National Basketball League of Canada’s St. John’s Edge, whose ownership group has partnered with their ECHL counterparts, and the Orlando Solar Bears, the Maple Leafs’ current ECHL affiliate.
> 
> Source: Newfoundland Growlers looks to be the name choice for new ECHL team | The Telegram


----------



## royals119

Just looking at the schedule grid on the other thread, the new team in ST John's looks like they will be well traveled and have a pretty varied home schedule too. Most frequent opponents are Brampton and Reading, 8 each against the rest of the division, and they play the entire south division plus Fort Wayne


HomeAwayFW3ATL1FLA2GRN1JAX2JAX1ORL3ORL2ADK4SC1BRM6ADK4ME4BRM7MAN4ME4REA4MAN4WOR4RDG7WOR4
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]
Looks like WC48 and 210 were closer than JDog.



JDogindy said:


> *18 games against Maine Mariners
> *12 games against Manchester Monarchs
> *12 games against Worcester Railers
> *10 games against Adirondack Thunder
> *4 games against Brampton Beast
> *4 games (three home) against Reading Royals
> 
> That leaves 12 games for the rest of the league, presumably on the road or inviting one team for a weekend set.






wildcat48 said:


> There is no way I see Maine playing that many games against St. John's... Portland has to fly to St. John's from Boston with a stop in Toronto so it's likely they will play Brampton along with St. John's during a road trip. I'm thinking it will be more in the eight to 10 games with two trips to St. John's and stops in Brampton.






210 said:


> Making a guess here (cough,cough) but I'd expect Maine, Manchester, and Worcester to have two trips each to St John's, with each being a Wed/Fri/Sat or Sun series, with a game or two in Brampton before flying from Toronto to St John's and one (or two) in Brampton on the way back...


----------



## 210

My post was actually based on the very first version of the schedule, which at the time read exactly what I posted. But afterward Worcester ended up getting a trip to Allen and Tulsa and Manchester added a Florida swing, which threw off games against St John's. Then Maine had a trip to Utah added, and that was the end of six games each for the three at Mile One Centre.


----------



## Theoriginalalex

I found it interesting that all but two of Newfoundland’s home series are 2 game sets, ala their AHL predecessors. I thought we would see exclusively 3 game sets as the league did with Alaska in their final years.

Does anyone know if the E forces remote teams like St. John’s to subsidize travel like the AHL is rumored to have done?


----------



## 210

St. John's is paying a travel subsidy.


----------



## Growlers

Article on SportsLogos.net about the team in St. John's being called "Newfoundland Growlers"

Source: Newfoundland Growlers will be Name of New ECHL Team


----------



## JDogindy

I was honestly surprised by that schedule.

It's lengthy home and away patterns, but there's more diversity.


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## JMCx4

210 said:


> St. John's is paying a travel subsidy.



Will that apply to fans as well?


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## 210

JMCx4 said:


> Will that apply to fans as well?




I wish...


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## CHRDANHUTCH

I know some of you ECHL Fans will want to go to Mile One if/when you get the opportunity too, the downside, as wildcat can attest to, is when the winter weather is as bad as it is here in the Northeast, imagine being over there and a) not knowing if the teams are playing (and for those wondering about the funky time slots, NL is on Atlantic Time so it's 60-90 minutes from what it would be in New England... I wish he'd recount the story about the blizzard up there, and there are a few others, and wouldn't mind the Worcester crew recounting their history/stories to give you ECHL Vets a little clearer view of what St. John's is, has been, going into this, and future seasons..... the major downside is how that ferry ride must be when the weather is dicey, as locals there can attest to if needed


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## Growlers

The weather can be bad here in the winter, But I don't recall any AHL games in the 6 years that where canceled. They always go ahead. If people plan to visit. Here is some info.

1. There is a hotel attached to Mile One Center. So if it is bad weather, you don't even need to step outside. 
2. Also, we have out our time zone. It's not Atlantic time. We are 1.5 hours ahead of EST.
3. Don't drive and take the ferry in the winter. Fly to St. John's.


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## DudeWhereIsMakar

slue said:


> The weather can be bad here in the winter, But I don't recall any AHL games in the 6 years that where canceled. They always go ahead. If people plan to visit. Here is some info.
> 
> 1. There is a hotel attached to Mile One Center. So if it is bad weather, you don't even need to step outside.
> 2. Also, we have out our time zone. It's not Atlantic time. We are 1.5 hours ahead of EST.
> 3. Don't drive and take the ferry in the winter. Fly to St. John's.





Does the half-hour time difference really make that much of a difference? Never been to St. John's.


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## 210

I went to St John's in the IceCats days...it's a great trip. As for the weather, except for it being a little colder it isn't that much different than Portland.


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## JMCx4

DudeWhereIsMakar said:


> Does the half-hour time difference really make that much of a difference? ...



It does to people who grew up & live there. The island of Newfoundland is 3-1/2 hours west of Greenwich, England; so as part of the British dominion (starting in 1583), the Newfoundlanders established their local time accordingly. When in 1949 they confederated with Canada, they kept their local time standard.

Another group who will care about the time difference are visiting hockey fans - if they don't want to miss the beginning of the game.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

JMCx4 said:


> It does to people who grew up & live there. The island of Newfoundland is 3-1/2 hours west of Greenwich, England; so as part of the British dominion (starting in 1583), the Newfoundlanders established their local time accordingly. When in 1949 they confederated with Canada, they kept their local time standard.
> 
> Another group who will care about the time difference are visiting hockey fans - if they don't want to miss the beginning of the game.



yea, games up there would be listed as odd, JM... EVEN WHEN YOU LOOKED at the league schedule page a 7:35 start in the Northeast, is listed as AST, SO in essence a 5:30 to a 6:05 radio timeframe has to be accounted for.


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## Growlers

Second last day of the countdown for the New ECHL team in St. John's seems to show a hint of the new logo


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## SemireliableSource

One nice little tidbit I saw mentioned in a comment on the day six post: check the posts in order. The first letters of the posts spell out G-R-O-W-L-E-R so far. I'm willing to bet tomorrow's caption will start with an S. Just a hunch.


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## JMCx4

SemireliableSource said:


> One nice little tidbit I saw mentioned in a comment on the day six post: check the posts in order. The first letters of the posts spell out G-R-O-W-L-E-R so far. I'm willing to bet tomorrow's caption will start with an S. Just a hunch.



But what if tomorrow's post reads: "*Z*eroing in on the name"? "Growlerz" anyone?


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## Woo Hockey

SemireliableSource said:


> One nice little tidbit I saw mentioned in a comment on the day six post: check the posts in order. The first letters of the posts spell out G-R-O-W-L-E-R so far. I'm willing to bet tomorrow's caption will start with an S. Just a hunch.




Something tells me that they'll be using Growlers but I can't quite put my finger on it...


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## Growlers

Newfoundland Growlers. Newest ECHL team


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## Atlantian

slue said:


> Newfoundland Growlers. Newest ECHL team



It had so much potential and that is what they came up with?


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## 210

I like it.


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## Growlers

I like it to. For those that don't know. That is a Newfoundland dog. Like how they kept it simple. Too many newer logos are "Busy" in my opinion.


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## tony d

Newfoundland Growlers it is, I like the logo but meh on the nickname. In any event great to see hockey back in the province again. We are 1 hr. and a half ahead of the eastern time zone.


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## wildcat48

I like the logo... It's simple, crisp and I really like the colors.


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## No Fun Shogun

If they wanted a dog theme, I would've recommended the Newfoundland Labradors.

Double connection.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

No Fun Shogun said:


> If they wanted a dog theme, I would've recommended the Newfoundland Labradors.
> 
> Double connection.



well, I think the NL part of that covers it because it's always been St. John's...... new era, new identity, I'm not sure Labrador province actually has a city or the arena, tbth.... 

Welcome back/home TO pro hockey NL Hockey fans, it's been a long struggle for Deacon to be able to pull this off as fast as they did, and welcome NL Growlers to a friendly rivalry in the North Division, this coming season and years to come


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## dingbathero

Great Logo and it will be well received in the city.

It's simple but yet strong. 

Hopefully the product will be good (as good as it can be for the ECHL).


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## Cousin Eddie

Beautiful logo.


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## 210

dingbathero said:


> Great Logo and it will be well received in the city.
> 
> It's simple but yet strong.
> 
> Hopefully the product will be good (as good as it can be for the ECHL).




The ECHL product is a lot better than people give it credit for...but the officiating will make you want to slam your head into the seat in front of you.


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## dingbathero

210 said:


> The ECHL product is a lot better than people give it credit for...but the officiating will make you want to slam your head into the seat in front of you.




Good to know. I am a little ignorant to the league itself... lower tier, and rough/sloppy in most cases is most I've heard about the league. A lesser AHL *shrugs*. I know there have been some really good players play there.


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## Nightsquad

*Wow, I really dig the logo. I like how they incorporated the Newfoundland name instead of just St. John's, that I didn't expect. I also like the serious looking logo. Did a very good job putting it together. *


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## JMCx4

210 said:


> The ECHL product is a lot better than people give it credit for...*but the officiating will make you want to slam your head into the seat in front of you*.



I look at the ECHL officiating as promoted SPHL officials who weren't given enough games per season in the lower league to make all of the stupid decisions they had in them.


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## 210

dingbathero said:


> Good to know. I am a little ignorant to the league itself... lower tier, and rough/sloppy in most cases is most I've heard about the league. A lesser AHL *shrugs*. I know there have been some really good players play there.




It's a lot more wide open, generally because players have some deficiencies in their games that need to be worked on before getting to the AHL. And like all levels of hockey, a good goaltending tandem is A MUST because they're going to see a decent number of shots.


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## GarbageGoal

210 said:


> The ECHL product is a lot better than people give it credit for...*but the officiating will make you want to slam your head into the seat in front of you.*




In other words, like every other level of NA hockey.


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## 210

GarbageGoal said:


> In other words, like every other level of NA hockey.




It's full of referees not good enough for the AHL, so it's far worse...


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## IceCapsFanNL

Looking forward to the Jersey, and the roster.

Newfoundland Growlers should be a home team in more ways than one | The Telegram


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## royals119

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> well, I think the NL part of that covers it because it's always been St. John's...... new era, new identity, I'm not sure Labrador province actually has a city or the arena, tbth....



The province is "Newfoundland and Labrador". Only 8% of the provinces population lives in Labrador, and many of those are native or of aboriginal descent. There have been some attempts to break free and have self-governance, but at least for now it is one province.


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## Nightsquad

I hear a lot of chatter about travel to St. John's and recommending flying instead of taking the ferry. I saw videos of the ferry, I know its off topic but does anyone have a any harrowing personal stories of ferry travel to and from St. John's to Nova Scotia lol?


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## IceCapsFanNL

It really isn't that bad, except for the amount of time. Lets say you are in Halifax. You have to drive 5-6 hours to Sydney, NS. Then it is a six hour ferry ride to Port-aux-Basques. Then you have a 10-11 hour drive to St. John's. So conservatively that 21 hours, or you can take a 1 ½ hour flight.

I'm 50 ish, I've been to Europe twice, Hawaii twice, NYC three times, been to Anaheim, and Florida more times than I can count. But I've only used the ferry for one driving trip in 1996.


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## Nightsquad

IceCapsFanNL said:


> It really isn't that bad, except for the amount of time. Lets say you are in Halifax. You have to drive 5-6 hours to Sydney, NS. Then it is a six hour ferry ride to Port-aux-Basques. Then you have a 10-11 hour drive to St. John's. So conservatively that 21 hours, or you can take a 1 ½ hour flight.
> 
> I'm 50 ish, I've been to Europe twice, Hawaii twice, NYC three times, been to Anaheim, and Florida more times than I can count. But I've only used the ferry for one driving trip in 1996.




The other ferry route is 16 hours correct?


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## dingbathero

Nightsquad said:


> The other ferry route is 16 hours correct?




Give or take a couple yes.

I was on that ferry, the long ride from NS to NL and the gate got stuck - 27 hours..... I wanted to jump and start swimming.....


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## Growler

How many non-ECHL contracts are allowed on an ECHL roster? i.e. AHL contracts.


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## Avsrule2022

Growler said:


> How many non-ECHL contracts are allowed on an ECHL roster? i.e. AHL contracts.




I believe there are no limits on this. But they still have to play the mandatory 5 games in the regular season to qualify for the playoffs.


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## 210

Avsrule2002 said:


> I believe there are no limits on this. But they still have to play the mandatory 5 games in the regular season to qualify for the playoffs.




Correct. In addition, ECHL teams can exempt two players from that five game minimum. Skaters on NHL ELCs or one-way AHL deals and goaltenders are automatically exempt.


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## Growler

210 said:


> Correct. In addition, ECHL teams can exempt two players from that five game minimum. Skaters on NHL ELCs or one-way AHL deals and goaltenders are automatically exempt.




Thanks. Then why don't NHL teams leverage the ECHL more by stockpiling their ECHL affiliate with AHL contracted players?


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Growler said:


> Thanks. Then why don't NHL teams leverage the ECHL more by stockpiling their ECHL affiliate with AHL contracted players?



THERE have always been 2 way contracts, Growler, St. John's went through that 3 times in its history, 1st the Leafs, then the Jets, then the Canadiens, nothing has changed since 1994 when the Leafs 1st arrived at Mile One.... you have the same union as you did when Newfoundland, was in the AHL, PHPA, Just as it always has been... some of the contracted players change, expense is one reason, even with local ownership, simply why do you need to stockpile AHL Contracted players, when you do have 2 way contracts between the 2 leagues, players will go to Toronto, instead of going from Orlando to Toronto, nothing changes there, any team in the AHL can recall a contracted player even if that team said player is on isn't their affiliate, that hasn't changed and likely hasn't independent of the affiliation....

the difference for those not used to the E doesn't mean we know how it operates, the Vet rule doesn't apply here as much as it did when it was instituted in the AHL.... SOME of it depends on where the players come from.


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## royals119

Growler said:


> Thanks. Then why don't NHL teams leverage the ECHL more by stockpiling their ECHL affiliate with AHL contracted players?



Probably at least two reasons. One is cost - why pay a bunch of guys on AHL contracts that you don't think have a future in the NHL. Most NHL teams don't care about winning in the AHL, they just want to develop their NHL prospects. Anybody on an AHL contract is not really an NHL prospect. Plus, if they need extra bodies for the AHL team during the season, they can just grab whatever ECHL player is having a good month and sign him to a PTO. Second is some players prefer being on an ECHL contract. Being on an AHL contract means you are getting paid more this season, but it also means you can only be called up to the AHL team you are contracted to. If you are on an ECHL contract you can get called up to any AHL team. So if you are offered an AHL deal with a team that is stacked at your position, you likely will end up spending the entire season in the ECHL. That makes your resume a little weaker for your next contract. If you were on an ECHL deal, put up big numbers, and got called up to a few different teams for 10 games each, your resume looks better for the next year. Plus you have made connections with other coaching staffs, and other players, so your network for your next job is a lot bigger.


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## Growler

royals119 said:


> Probably at least two reasons. One is cost - why pay a bunch of guys on AHL contracts that you don't think have a future in the NHL. Most NHL teams don't care about winning in the AHL, they just want to develop their NHL prospects. Anybody on an AHL contract is not really an NHL prospect. Plus, if they need extra bodies for the AHL team during the season, they can just grab whatever ECHL player is having a good month and sign him to a PTO. Second is some players prefer being on an ECHL contract. Being on an AHL contract means you are getting paid more this season, but it also means you can only be called up to the AHL team you are contracted to. If you are on an ECHL contract you can get called up to any AHL team. So if you are offered an AHL deal with a team that is stacked at your position, you likely will end up spending the entire season in the ECHL. That makes your resume a little weaker for your next contract. If you were on an ECHL deal, put up big numbers, and got called up to a few different teams for 10 games each, your resume looks better for the next year. Plus you have made connections with other coaching staffs, and other players, so your network for your next job is a lot bigger.



Thanks for the response, those are some good reasons. I do however count 27 AHL contracts that have been parlayed into NHL contracts within the last 18 months and expect probably half a dozen or more the Summer (~30-35 NHL contracts in 24 months). Many of those players played in the ECHL and more than 100 NHL games have been played already by those 25 players. None of these guys are likely to be the next Steve Stamkos or whoever, but they are inexpensive players at times capable of filling out the bottom 10 of the 23 man roster. So, there is value here.

AHL teams loan other AHL teams players pretty regularly - maybe do this more? Not sure.

I just see more potential here worth mining. It is a philosophy change about the role of the farm system. GMs will need to sell the player about the advantages of staying in one system even if it risks playing more games in the ECHL vs. the AHL. One benefit will be that the player will get paid more. I agree the cost is an issue, but it is not a salary cap issue. Toronto, Islanders, Buffalo, Washington and Vancouver appear to be the teams taking most advantage.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

it's why the ECHL always touts how many players/coaches/officials/ executives and there was at minimum 600, over the history now being 31 years, which not many leagues can either track or highlight, and that's impressive, but why they track or highlight that is a question not even the most veteran fans, independent of league can just easily explain is just astounding.... I wish the AHL would track that historical aspect for these newcomers, even if they are from previous markets in other leagues and et all....


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## JMCx4

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> it's why the ECHL always touts how many players/coaches/officials/ executives and there was at minimum 600, over the history now being 31 years, which not many leagues can either track or highlight, and that's impressive, but why they track or highlight that is a question not even the most veteran fans, independent of league can just easily explain is just astounding.... I wish the AHL would track that historical aspect for these newcomers, even if they are from previous markets in other leagues and et all....



I think you need to go back to your ALL CAPS responses, HUTCH. Those were easier to follow.


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## royals119

You are right, that would be a philosophy change. Given how slowly those things change, and how often the same people are recycled as coaches and GM's, it will probably take a while to see more teams adapt that kind of change. Plus teams probably feel they are already signing all the guys with that type of potential, and adding more "low end" talent on AHL contracts isn't going to increase their success rate. Whether that is true or not is hard to say. (sort of like extending the draft to more rounds. You might get another decent prospect here and there, but more misses than hits) Probably sort of a self-fulfilling thing to some degree. If a guy is signed as a "depth" player with no expectations, and only plays in the ECHL, even if he puts up big numbers they are still not going to give him much of an opportunity in the AHL, unless they have a bunch of injuries.

Just out of curiosity, how many of those 25 were goalies? Because there are so few jobs, an injury or two can quickly lead to teams signing AHL contracted goalies to NHL deals just to have enough healthy bodies in the system.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

JMCx4 said:


> I think you need to go back to your ALL CAPS responses, HUTCH. Those were easier to follow.



POURQUOI, JMC, would you like it if we picked apart every single post of yours, because some of the regurgitated posts fans can get by emails alone instead of having it posted here in addition to that, including past results, of games etc.... by the time we all see it, it's old news


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## JMCx4

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> POURQUOI, JMC, would you like it if we picked apart every single post of yours, because some of the regurgitated posts fans can get by emails alone instead of having it posted here in addition to that, including past results, of games etc.... by the time we all see it, it's old news



Pick, don't pick, I don't care. But many of us look to HF Boards as our one-stop hockey shop. You should feel flattered that you're a part of why we keep coming back.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

what does any of that have to do with Newfoundland, JMC,

BTW, A NEW op;inion column on the structure patterns between how or the subtle differences between the AHL/ECHL structure, from Brendan McCarthy is up on the Telegram site....

basic gist, is pretty much what every fan knows and has been discussed here and related threads:

the major difference will be Deacon and the Edge owning the franchise, whether or not the Leafs stay..... talks a bit as well about the relationship between Orlando and the two Toronto teams, how the Growlers identify who/what they want.... Edge ownership in deference to what Deacon has stated to date has not been determined, but the owners will have more control now than in the Leafs/Jets/Canadiens era


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## Growler

royals119 said:


> You are right, that would be a philosophy change. Given how slowly those things change, and how often the same people are recycled as coaches and GM's, it will probably take a while to see more teams adapt that kind of change. Plus teams probably feel they are already signing all the guys with that type of potential, and adding more "low end" talent on AHL contracts isn't going to increase their success rate. Whether that is true or not is hard to say. (sort of like extending the draft to more rounds. You might get another decent prospect here and there, but more misses than hits) Probably sort of a self-fulfilling thing to some degree. If a guy is signed as a "depth" player with no expectations, and only plays in the ECHL, even if he puts up big numbers they are still not going to give him much of an opportunity in the AHL, unless they have a bunch of injuries.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how many of those 25 were goalies? Because there are so few jobs, an injury or two can quickly lead to teams signing AHL contracted goalies to NHL deals just to have enough healthy bodies in the system.




I counted only 2 of the players were goalies - Casey DeSmith (Pitt) and Landon Bow (Dal). Also I missed a few players so it was actually 27, not 25. I think that number will increase this week as rights expire and in August when rosters round out further. Those 27 players have already played in more than 100 NHL games!

The way I view the AHL contracted ECHL player is:
1. An opportunity to correct drafting mistakes by finding and developing late bloomer talent to offer an ELC instead of being stuck to committing a previously drafted player whose rights are about to expire i.e. raising the tide in your 50 signees 
2. Develop a franchise culture from AA to the Big Club. This includes creating a winning culture by "stocking" an ECHL team each year. 
3. Demonstrate a commitment to a player by investing in their development instead of leaving them out in the UFA meat market. This includes a higher salary. 
4. Put that player under the care of your hand-picked staff, including access to resources, with the intent of developing them more effectively. 

If an NHL team is going to invest millions of dollars into scouts and travel in preparation for the draft every year, to me it is nonsensical that they do not follow-through on that investment and apply it, and more towards their ECHL affiliate relationship. Some teams are doing this well today. Some teams barely at all.


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## royals119

Growler said:


> I counted only 2 of the players were goalies - Casey DeSmith (Pitt) and Landon Bow (Dal). Also I missed a few players so it was actually 27, not 25. I think that number will increase this week as rights expire and in August when rosters round out further. Those 27 players have already played in more than 100 NHL games!
> 
> The way I view the AHL contracted ECHL player is:
> 1. An opportunity to correct drafting mistakes by finding and developing late bloomer talent to offer an ELC instead of being stuck to committing a previously drafted player whose rights are about to expire i.e. raising the tide in your 50 signees
> 2. Develop a franchise culture from AA to the Big Club. This includes creating a winning culture by "stocking" an ECHL team each year.
> 3. Demonstrate a commitment to a player by investing in their development instead of leaving them out in the UFA meat market. This includes a higher salary.
> 4. Put that player under the care of your hand-picked staff, including access to resources, with the intent of developing them more effectively.
> 
> If an NHL team is going to invest millions of dollars into scouts and travel in preparation for the draft every year, to me it is nonsensical that they do not follow-through on that investment and apply it, and more towards their ECHL affiliate relationship. Some teams are doing this well today. Some teams barely at all.



I agree with all your points, and I think things are moving more in that direction. There are teams, including the Flyers, who have a history of not developing their own players. They tended to trade draft choices for other teams' players, or sign free agents. With Ron Hextall taking over as GM he has been trading players for draft picks and rebuilding the pipeline of prospects. That hasn't really trickled down to the ECHL yet though. They do sign players to AHL deals, but mainly just as players to fill out the AHL roster, and as extras to send to Reading as injury replacements for the AHL team when needed. They have been doing a lot more of that than they did in the past. Used to be all the Flyers did was take ECHL contracted players, so it is a big improvement.

The Flyers did sign goalie John Muse to an NHL contract this spring, after starting him on an AHL deal, but only after they had three of their NHL contracted goaltenders suffer injuries. It was only for the remainder of the season, so the contract was very short lived, and probably just to protect him from being grabbed by another NHL team since he played very well. He didn't play in the NHL since the Flyers traded for Mrazek instead. That has been the extent of their signing AHL players to NHL contracts over the last three years.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Team website for those newcomers:

http://www.nlgrowlers.com


team has now set up an e-newsletter to assist in easier communication between fans, opponents and the franchise


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## Neill99

Any updates from the Newfoundland Growlers in terms of Toronto Maple Leafs affiliation,merchandise,jerseys.


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## Growlers

No official word on affiliation. At this point, it seems they are waiting for the Mairles to finish their season. They could win the Calder cup tomorrow vs Texas. 

In regards to merch. They posted on their twitter page last week it will be available this week


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## ckg927

slue said:


> No official word on affiliation. At this point, it seems they are waiting for the Mairles to finish their season. They could win the Calder cup tomorrow vs Texas.
> 
> In regards to merch. They posted on their twitter page last week it will be available this week




I'm anxious to see what their jerseys will look like.

The same goes for the Maine Mariners.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

ckg927 said:


> I'm anxious to see what their jerseys will look like.
> 
> The same goes for the Maine Mariners.



you may want to go to the Portland thread for that, ckg, since that thread will be open but they are selling hats here in Portland


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## ckg927

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> you may want to go to the Portland thread for that, ckg, since that thread will be open but they are selling hats here in Portland




Noted. The Mariners' store STILL doesn't have jerseys.


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## Growlers

*Newfoundland Growlers’ affiliation with Maple Leafs will be announced this week*


The Newfoundland Growlers will check off one more item on their lengthy to-do list sometime later this week when the new ECHL team formally announces its affiliation with the Toronto Maple Leafs.
For some, this will have them harkening back to the 14 seasons of the American Hockey League’s St. John’s Maple Leafs, but the relationship between the Growlers and Toronto will not be the same as that which existed between the AHL Leafs and Toronto.
And it goes beyond the fact the St. John’s Leafs franchise was directly owned by Toronto as opposed to this ECHL expansion franchise, which is locally owned by Deacon Sports and Entertainment (Dean MacDonald and Glenn Stanford).




While AHL-NHL affiliations are fairly straightforward, those with ECHL teams are quite a bit more tangled, no matter the ownership situation.
For one thing, while the agreement will be between the Maple Leafs and Growlers, the ECHL team’s relationship — at least in terms of player exchange — will mostly be with Toronto’s AHL farm team, the Marlies. You may see a couple or few players on NHL entry-level deals, but most of the Leafs-associated players on the Growlers will be signed to AHL contracts with the Marlies, and when there are any call-ups from Newfoundland, they will almost always be AHL-bound.

ECHL affiliations are also often described as being much looser than those at the AHL level, where the roster-building is almost entirely done by the NHL parent club. In the ECHL, however, teams are responsible for the recruitment and the remuneration of a significant number of the players.
But there are different levels of looseness. The Montreal Canadiens, for example, has been affiliated with the Brampton Beast for the last number of years but supplied only a handful of contracted players to the Beast. By comparison, Toronto’s official player commitment to the Growlers is expected to be in double figures — 10 to 12 players — and look for the Maple Leafs to be at least somewhat involved in the identification of other players on the Newfoundland roster.

Coupled with the Maple Leafs being responsible for the Growlers’ coaching staff (the head coaching search has apparently been narrowed down to a few candidates, by the way) and training staff, and you will have what might be the most substantial involvement by any NHL organization at the ECHL level.

Getting back to the Maple Leafs’ player commitment: it will also be financially beneficial as the Growlers look to sign their own free agents.
That’s because, unlike the AHL, there is a salary cap in the ECHL. Last season, that cap was US$12,800 per week — for the entire 20-man roster. That’s an average of $640 per week, per player. So even accounting for the fact the Growlers will be responsible for paying for players’ furnished accommodations, it’s pretty obvious nobody is getting rich playing in the ECHL.
But when the Leafs/Marlies assign a player to Toronto, he will be paid on the basis of his NHL or AHL contract.

For example, the Maple Leafs sent goalie Kasimir Kaskisuo to what will soon be their former ECHL affiliate, the Orlando Solar Bears, for a couple of games last season. While in Orlando, Kaskisuo was paid under the AHL portion of his entry-level deal, which called for $70,000 annually — or about $2,700 per week, based on a six-month hockey season. However, under ECHL rules that apply to assigned affiliated players, the salary-cap charge to the Solar Bears was only $525 per week.

And so it will be with the dozen or so players Toronto will send to the Growlers. They’ll all be paid much more than the ECHL average, but the cap charge for each will be just $525 per week. That will allow the Growlers to offer more than the league median salary to the players they’ll need to fill out the roster.
And all this means one more thing: when it comes to roster management, the members of Growlers’ accounting department will be just as important as those involved with hockey operations.

brendan.mccarthy@thetelegram.com
Twitter: @telybrendan

Source: Newfoundland Growlers’ affiliation with Maple Leafs will be announced this week | The Telegram


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## BigBadBread

Hats and shirts out now (possibly) or in the next week at least . Jerseys will be out in July. Source: Growlers Twitter


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## Growlers

For merchandise. They have hats, T-shirts, Polo shirts, hoodies, mini sticks, and pucks so far.


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## JMCx4

ckg927 said:


> Noted. The Mariners' store STILL doesn't have jerseys.



Jerseys require the most investment by the seller & have the longest lead times. See BigBadBread's post, and everyone should practice patience.


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## Growlers

*Toronto’s new ECHL affiliate is officially the Newfoundland Growlers*


The Newfoundland Growlers, proud members of the ECHL, are excited to announce the Toronto Maple Leafs of the National Hockey League and Toronto Marlies of the American Hockey League as their NHL and AHL affiliates.

_..._
_
Source: Newfoundland Growlers Announce Affiliation with Toronto Maple Leafs & Toronto Marlies – Newfoundland Herald_


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## Neill99

Who might we see playing for Newfoundland Growlers?.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Neill99 said:


> Who might we see playing for Newfoundland Growlers?.



they just told you in the above post.....


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Next step for the Growlers: hiring a coach who fits a developmental edge and will fit in with the Leafs and Marlies.... Berehowsky likely will be retained by Orlando... based off the latest update from the Telegram....


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Newfoundland/Toronto have hired former Sharks/Rangers/Devils player Ryane Clowe as the franchise's inaugural head coach.... Clowe was forced to retire due to multiple concussions after the 2014/15 SEASON.... he has been an assistant under John Hynes with the NJ Devils since retirement....

basic synopsis a 4 year QMJHL career with Rimouski AND Montreal (the old St. John's Fog Devils, now the Blainville Boisbriand Armada) AND has played in St. John's as a Maple Leaf, either as a visitor..... he also has connections with current Islanders VP of Hockey Ops Lou Lamairello...


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## LadyStanley

Ryane Clowe set to become Newfoundland Growlers coach, sources tell The Telegram | The Telegram

Article on Clowe coaching gig


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## Woo Hockey

LadyStanley said:


> Ryane Clowe set to become Newfoundland Growlers coach, sources tell The Telegram | The Telegram
> 
> Article on Clowe coaching gig





...and now its official.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

did anyone catch the team release of the above announcement......

insert the jokes here..... Newfoundland GROWERS, even missing the 'L', even one letter without the wordmark.....


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## Neill99

Does anyone know when will Newfoundland Growlers sign there first player.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Neill99 said:


> Does anyone know when will Newfoundland Growlers sign there first player.




which? those signed by Toronto and the Marlies, or the team's own signings, Neill, SIGN UP FOR THE TEAM'S NEWSLETTER, anything that comes from them will likely be posted after the fact, just as it has always been, whether it's Portland or Worcester or any other team that has its own thread and that way you'll know without having to post these questions


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## 210

Neill99 said:


> Does anyone know when will Newfoundland Growlers sign there first player.




Could be any day now...


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## McDrailers

210 said:


> Could be any day now...




The Marlies just signed 7 players including St.John's native Zach Obrien. 

Looks like we have our team captain.


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## Growler

Newfy OilPenguin said:


> The Marlies just signed 7 players including St.John's native Zach Obrien.
> 
> Looks like we have our team captain.



17 AHL players signed already. Most of whom will make appearances on the Rock.

It is going to be a young (perhaps the youngest in ECHL history), skilled team so far.


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## Wince

Neill99 said:


> Does anyone know when will Newfoundland Growlers sign there first player.




Looks like it will be soon:

Newfoundland Growlers close to announcing their first player signing | The Telegram


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## Neill99

Does anyone know when the growlers will annouce the jerseys and on -line store


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## Growlers

Last I heard was the jersey will be released in July. So maybe later this week. Not sure about online store. They keep post and say they are working on it.


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## Captain Crash

Neill99 said:


> Does anyone know when the growlers will annouce the jerseys and on -line store




Yes.


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## Growlers

The Growlers will announce their jerseys tomorrow at 10:30 am NL time. 9:00 am EST






The province’s new hockey team will unveil the Newfoundland Growlers jersey tomorrow.
They’re preparing for their inaugural season in the ECHL. The unveiling is set for tomorrow morning at Harbourside Park starting at 10:30.
Former NHLer Ryane Clowe is the head coach.

source: VOCM - Growlers Jerseys to Be Unveiled Tomorrow


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## Growlers

Newfoundland Growlers Jerseys revealed.


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## BigBadBread

They look good! They look even better with numbers and the full set up (pants, helmet socks)


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## ckg927

Just like the Mariners' jerseys, the Growlers are Just...TOO....SWEET!

The one on the right works better for me, because the logo pops out more.


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## pled

Pardy-Melindy duo gonna crush the echl


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