# Soccer Prospect Discussion Thread V



## Le Tricolore

Other thread was at 1000. Continue here!


----------



## Il Mediano

Does anyone know anything about this kid? Roma's apparently interested.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Il Mediano said:


> Does anyone know anything about this kid? Roma's apparently interested.





Soccer Prospect Discussion Thread IV


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Spurs golden boy right now would be Troy Parrott. 16y/o striker who is already dominant in the U18 Premier League and performed well in the UEFA Youth League. Glimmer of hope for Irish supporters.


----------



## Ajacied

16 Year old Mohammed Ihattaran, PSV's wonderkid, will likely make his debut this afternoon. Very entertaining player to watch.

Soccer Prospect Discussion Thread IV


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I would be surprised if Europe's biggest clubs weren't lining up to sign this kid. Best American talent in his age group. He's done so well that he was promoted an age group, and could make the roster for the WC-20.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

With his 17th birthday today, Troy Parrott has signed his first professional contract for Spurs.

Part of me wants us to play him over Llorente


----------



## Il Mediano




----------



## Ajacied

@Il Mediano.. With the half way mark behind us, how has Kluivert done? I've only seen glimpses..


----------



## Il Mediano

Ajacied said:


> @Il Mediano.. With the half way mark behind us, how has Kluivert done? I've only seen glimpses..




He hasn't featured that much to be honest. Di Francesco wants him to improve defensively , and Kluivert has spoken to the steep learning curve in that regard.

It really mirrors Under's integration process last year - which is what I expected.

There's been flashes for sure, though. He became Roma's youngest ever scorer in the CL earlier this season, for example. Looked really good against Genoa too. I've been pleasantly surprised by his vision to be honest. I thought he'd be the type to take his man on and ignore his surroundings, but that's not been the case. The guy can pick a pass.

I hope to see more of him as the season progresses, because he offers things in attack that no one else at LW on Roma can. El Shaarawy is the same inconsistent player he's always been , and Perotti can't stay fit.


----------



## SJSharks72

United sign Noam Emeran from Amiens. @Evilo have you heard of him


----------



## Evilo

I know a lot of teams were after him because he has high ceiling. I haven't seen him though. I know he's just recently been called up for the youth selections.
I also know Belgium is trying to get him for their youth program. Also the transfer could reach 10M, which is a crazy number for a 16 year old.


----------



## Evilo

Willem Geubbels was finally back to Monaco's youth league team today after months of injuries.
A few minutes played and he's out with a major injury. At least 4-6 weeks with a muscle injury.


----------



## gary69

Yeah, he lasted around 20 minutes, injuring himself while sprinting on his own. Thuram's (how many of them are out there?) consolation goal was a nice shot, but on the whole Chelsea were better, Redan wasn't anything special, though. PSG lost too, giving up two goals after taking the lead.


----------



## Evilo

Yeah PSG was a big letdown because they quite clearly were the better team from reports and highlights I read/saw.
They hit the post twice and were really unlucky.


----------



## Evilo

I'm watching Lyon's youth league game right now (they're winning 2-0) and while Titouan Thomas is good, Cherki and Caqueret have nothing to do at this level.
They're wayyyyyyy too good.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Evilo said:


> I'm watching Lyon's youth league game right now (they're winning 2-0) and while Titouan Thomas is good, Cherki and Caqueret have nothing to do at this level.
> They're wayyyyyyy too good.



Cherki I have read is the next big thing for France.

Lyon believe he might be the best talent to ever come out of their academy.


----------



## Evilo

Nah, they say he's comparable to Ben Arfa.
Which is possibly the best pure talent on par with Zidane in the history of french football.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Lyon might have the best academy in Europe when it comes to producing talented players. Teams like Barcelona or Man City might have more talent in their academy, but they recruit the best players from around the world. Lyon is the best at producing talented professional footballers with the local talent in the area.


----------



## Evilo

There's a TV story out there about Lyon's academy.
Here are some players out of their academies in the last 25 years :
Ludovic Giuly
Sidney Govou
Hatem Ben Arfa
Karim Benzema
Alexandre Lacazette
Corentin Tolisso
Nabil Fekir
Samuel Umtiti
Houssem Aouar
Anthony Martial
Anthony Lopes
Clement Grenier
Yacine Benzia
Loic Remy
Mouctar Diakhaby
Timothée Kolozdzieczak
Rachid Ghezzal


----------



## phisherman

The 50 most exciting teenagers in English football

I'm shocked there are so many Arsenal players named considering all their youth players are garbage.


----------



## bluesfan94

phisherman said:


> The 50 most exciting teenagers in English football
> 
> I'm shocked there are so many Arsenal players named considering all their youth players are garbage.



None of the names are that surprising though.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Evilo said:


> There's a TV story out there about Lyon's academy.
> Here are some players out of their academies in the last 25 years :
> Ludovic Giuly
> Sidney Govou
> Hatem Ben Arfa
> Karim Benzema
> Alexandre Lacazette
> Corentin Tolisso
> Nabil Fekir
> Samuel Umtiti
> Houssem Aouar
> Anthony Martial
> Anthony Lopes
> Clement Grenier
> Yacine Benzia
> Loic Remy
> Mouctar Diakhaby
> Timothée Kolozdzieczak
> Rachid Ghezzal





-------------Benzema
Martial ----Fekir-----Lacazette
---------Tolisso---Aouar----
TiKo--Umtiti--Diakhaby--Gaspar
---------------Lopes

Not bad.


----------



## phisherman

bluesfan94 said:


> None of the names are that surprising though.




But Arsenal don't produce any players.


----------



## YNWA14

FourFourTwo usually puts out some pretty good lists.


----------



## Evilo

Toulouse's wonder prospect Adil Taoui has just scored 3 goals in just the first half against Le Havre in the Gambardella Cup, the big youth competition in France (U18). 4-0 at halftime.
We discovered Varane's brother too with Lens team.


----------



## Evilo

5-0 now. Le Havre is one of the best academies in France. Amazing.


----------



## Evilo

Evilo said:


> I'm watching Lyon's youth league game right now (they're winning 2-0) and while Titouan Thomas is good, Cherki and Caqueret have nothing to do at this level.
> They're wayyyyyyy too good.



Compilation of Cherki's latest youth game league...



He's 15 BTW. And Hannibal Mejbri is still considered a better 2003 player.


----------



## Cassano

Giroud said CHO is as talented as Mbappe. 

Thoughts?


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Cassano said:


> Giroud said CHO is as talented as Mbappe.
> 
> Thoughts?




CHO is great but this is hilarious


----------



## Juni

It's nothing more than one team-mate showing support for another, younger one. People love to overreact to exaggerated headlines.



> “Callum is one of the [great] hopes of English football; he is only 18 years old. I saw him start a little over a year ago when I arrived in Chelsea when he was just 17 years old, and he is a very talented player, a bit like Kylian (Mbappé). They were a bit of the same age when they started to blaze, now it’s true he needs play time to progress.”




Nothing wrong with saying that.


----------



## Cassano

Despite all he's accomplished, I still believe Mbappe doesn't get the praise he truly deserves. He's the best scorer in world football atm and few seem to acknowledge that.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

What happened to Woodburn at Sheffield? Thought he was very highly rated but he barely got to play.


----------



## YNWA14

Big Kahuna said:


> What happened to Woodburn at Sheffield? Thought he was very highly rated but he barely got to play.



He is still highly rated but like a lot of young players who are more skilled/intelligent than physical specimens they have a harder time breaking in at a young age unless they're heavily insulated or generational. Liverpool were pretty unhappy with his playtime so I'm not sure what the next step is but he is still highly rated.


----------



## Savant

Big Kahuna said:


> What happened to Woodburn at Sheffield? Thought he was very highly rated but he barely got to play.



Sheffield is in a title/promotion race and they (rightfully) didn't want to change the lineup too much. Nothing bad.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Evilo said:


> Compilation of Cherki's latest youth game league...
> 
> 
> 
> He's 15 BTW. And Hannibal Mejbri is still considered a better 2003 player.




He looks like Messi out there when he attracted 5 guys on him and still kept the ball.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Savant said:


> Sheffield is in a title/promotion race and they (rightfully) didn't want to change the lineup too much. Nothing bad.




From what I can understand he got a few chances to prove himself at the start of the season, manager wasn't impressed at all, and beyond that he didn't even make the matchday squads.


----------



## Savant

Big Kahuna said:


> From what I can understand he got a few chances to prove himself at the start of the season, manager wasn't impressed at all, and beyond that he didn't even make the matchday squads.



I mean, if your team has a chance to win the championship or get promoted, you aren't going to go out of your way to find minutes for an on loan 19 year old.


----------



## YNWA14

Big Kahuna said:


> From what I can understand he got a few chances to prove himself at the start of the season, manager wasn't impressed at all, and beyond that he didn't even make the matchday squads.



What gave you this impression?

He played a grand total of 2 games worth of minutes, never more than 45 minutes a game, and then got injured. The coach mentioned he was looking for ways to get Woodburn in but they were challenging and didn't want to change things up when they were in good form. It happens.

I don't like these loans a lot of the time because you're an outsider coming into a completely different team with a completely different set-up and there's no real incentive to force the player into the team and allow them time to adjust as these teams are playing for something and aren't just there to develop. Young players like Woodburn shouldn't be sent on loan without guaranteed gametime IMO, otherwise they may as well be in the PL2 team.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Oh, must have missed his injury.


----------



## Ajacied

Xavi Simons turns 16 in less than two months, meaning he can sign his first contract with Barcelona. Just realized his agent is Raiola. 

Talked about Simons this past week during an Ajax U19 match with what might've been a scout (or a well informed fan - guessing the latter). Mentioned he's gotten too much hype and struggles with the physical parts of the game now and that Unuvar (Ajax) and Fitz-Jin (AZ) are bigger talents from that age group (2003). He was also high on Ohio (Man City). Ajax will face Lyon in the youth league; mentioned Cherki as one of the bigger talents to keep an eye on. Also Ronaldo Camara from Benfica.


----------



## les Habs

Ajacied said:


> Xavi Simons turns 16 in less than two months, meaning he can sign his first contract with Barcelona. Just realized his agent is Raiola.
> 
> Talked about Simons this past week during an Ajax U19 match with what might've been a scout (or a well informed fan - guessing the latter). Mentioned he's gotten too much hype and struggles with the physical parts of the game now and that Unuvar (Ajax) and Fitz-Jin (AZ) are bigger talents from that age group (2003). He was also high on Ohio (Man City). Ajax will face Lyon in the youth league; mentioned Cherki as one of the bigger talents to keep an eye on. Also Ronaldo Camara from Benfica.




Xavi Simons can get a better contract from an English club due to the difference in laws. Maybe Raiola will try and move him.


----------



## Ajacied

Simons has already been promised a starting role in Barcelona, according to some reports. Not sure if I believe that, though. He also has that real Barca DNA - short, fast, quick thinking and breathtaking playmaker. I doubt he grows higher than 1.70. Not sure he'll survive in a league where physicality is higher than anywhere else. Then again, you never know with Raiola. 

Also, there's a strong chance Simons opts for Spain, so I doubt he'll leave anytime soon. His Spanish is better than his Dutch and all his friends are Spanish.


----------



## Juni

People are about to get quite confused because Chelsea have a 16yo midfielder (has played for England U16) called Xavier Simons.


----------



## Ajacied

Just a few short clips and impressions of Unuvar playing the mini-klassieker vs kids who are all two years older. That assist is just ridiculous. Look at the curve..


----------



## John Pedro

Ajacied said:


> Just a few short clips and impressions of Unuvar playing the mini-klassieker vs kids who are all two years older. That assist is just ridiculous. Look at the curve..





more like Naci Unfair


----------



## Evilo

I've talked about JM Guillou many times on this board since he's relatively unknown to non french or african football fans.
Here is Ajax coach saying he inspires himself from his ivorian academy and hopes one day Ajax can play as good.


----------



## phisherman

Evilo said:


> I've talked about JM Guillou many times on this board since he's relatively unknown to non french or african football fans.
> Here is Ajax coach saying he inspires himself from his ivorian academy and hopes one day Ajax can play as good.





What happened to him? I'm not sure if I'm right but last I read he opened a bunch academies in other countries. I'm not sure if they were as successful at producing players like the Ivory Coast one.


----------



## Evilo

Last I heard he was in Malaysia the last few years.
But he's back to Ivory Coast, taking care of the whole youth structure for the federation.


----------



## Evilo

Two of the best academies are facing off in youth league. Already 1-1 after 10 minutes between Ajax and Lyon.


----------



## Evilo

Best player on the pitch so far is Cherki obviously.
He's also the youngest.


----------



## Ivan13

Dinamo and Liverpool are currently tied at 1. Liverpool scored one time they created something and Dinamo is playing them off the pitch. Should be 3-1 right now and not a deadlock. 

PS

Another glorious chance missed.


----------



## Ajacied

Evilo said:


> Best player on the pitch so far is Cherki obviously.
> He's also the youngest.




He's a threat for sure, but I'm not overly impressed by him or anyone else on the pitch so far. Especially the Ajax players - they've all been meh, the defense in particular. Botman is just hilarious. I just hate him with passion.

Lyon's been better so far. Ajax are playing with a very unusual and unexpected , completely different defensive side and without a few big regulars. Their biggest stars (Gravenberch, Eiting, Lang, Taylor, Ekkelenkamp) will join Ajax I or young Ajax this week, so they aren't made available. Something I just can't grasp. Ajax never seem to value these tournaments much. Quinten Timber is suspended, Bakker has been in the doghouse since he announced his move to Paris, Flemming has been loaned out, Hansen missed practice and is demoted to the U17, while Unuvar is sitting on the bench with this defensive approach. Ter Heide and Botman shouldn't be active on this level and have no potential whatsoever. Nunnely has been with this U19 team for 4 years already, he just fails to take the next step time after time. I only feel Kuhn (AM) , Salah-Eddine (LB), Brobbey (ST) and Jensen (AM) have the potential to reach Ajax I of this current team on the pitch. Maybe Dest (RB) as well.

Hard to expect an Ajax victory here, especially when you consider that it's on the road. Maybe Brobbey can safe Ajax, but I doubt it. Shame it's in Lyon and how it's only one game. Just doesn't seem like a fair format. I would've went if the game was played on De Toekomst, but maybe next time/year.


----------



## Ajacied

Ajax loses on penalties after being down a man. Brobbey with both goals after two quality assists from Che Nunnely. Didn't feel Brobbey was involved a lot with Ajax' defensive approach. Not a fan of Heitinga's tactics; I think he felt he had to defend playing away and vs a quick offensive squad, but that's not the main quality of this Ajax side.

Unuvar came in late. Wasn't involved a whole lot, but I thought his shot was mostly on display. His free kick or his penalty, it's so quick, on point and powerful. Had a secondary assist on the tying goal and scored a penalty under heavy pressure.


----------



## Evilo

Penalty shootout after a 92nd minute equalizer by Ajax.


----------



## Evilo

And the red card came at the 89th BTW. So they were really not down a man throughout the game.


----------



## Ivan13

Dinamo gets by Liverpool on penalties. They should’ve scored 5 in regulation to be honest. Amazing the amount of talent this school produced in the last 10-15 years.


----------



## Ivan13

Dinamo to play Chelsea in London in the clash of two future candidates for the #1 shirt with the Croatian national team. It's tough seeing them going through having to play an away game, but the performance against Liverpool builds hope.


----------



## YNWA14

Ivan13 said:


> Dinamo to play Chelsea in London in the clash of two future candidates for the #1 shirt with the Croatian national team. It's tough seeing them going through having to play an away game, but the performance against Liverpool builds hope.



Does Dinamo have any special talents on their team? Chelsea always has a really strong youth team in these competitions. Disappointed Liverpool went out, too, but haven't seen the game yet.


----------



## Savant

Google Translate

Interesting article comparing 19 year old American, Paxton Pomykal to Frenkie de Jong. Comes from a great FC Dallas academy


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Savant said:


> Google Translate
> 
> Interesting article comparing 19 year old American, Paxton Pomykal to Frenkie de Jong. Comes from a great FC Dallas academy




Way premature and they play nothing alike, but Dallas has talked about a youth movement this season and Pomykal is one of the main beneficiaries. He had an assist in the last game. He didn't play much in previous seasons, but was the first sub off the bench in the first game and started the second game of the season, so he should play a big role this season.


----------



## Ajacied

Savant said:


> Google Translate
> 
> Interesting article comparing 19 year old American, Paxton Pomykal to Frenkie de Jong. Comes from a great FC Dallas academy




They air MLS now here as well, but I still cringe seeing how they try to copy the European ways. I did just watch some highlights. It doesn't always paint the most accurate picture, but I don't see a single resemblance to Frenkie. I also would be hesitant calling any American academy great, but that's just my 0.02.


----------



## Ajacied

Don't often post youtube compilations, but this one of Joao Felix is quite telling. Kid has the potential to be world's best someday, yet somehow he's not all that talked about internationally, until recently. He's been a legit wonderkid for years now and Benfica knows how to develop its youngsters.


----------



## YNWA14

Ajacied said:


> Don't often post youtube compilations, but this one of Joao Felix is quite telling. Kid has the potential to be world's best someday, yet somehow he's not all that talked about internationally, until recently. He's been a legit wonderkid for years now and Benfica knows how to develop its youngsters.




Yessir...such a smooth, composed player. I've seen the Kaka comparison thrown around and I can see it.


----------



## Savant

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Way premature and they play nothing alike, but Dallas has talked about a youth movement this season and Pomykal is one of the main beneficiaries. He had an assist in the last game. He didn't play much in previous seasons, but was the first sub off the bench in the first game and started the second game of the season, so he should play a big role this season.





Ajacied said:


> They air MLS now here as well, but I still cringe seeing how they try to copy the European ways. I did just watch some highlights. It doesn't always paint the most accurate picture, but I don't see a single resemblance to Frenkie. I also would be hesitant calling any American academy great, but that's just my 0.02.



Not saying its accurate but definitely interesting. You usually dont see American players getting that kind of PR. 

As for Dallas academy, it is certainly the best academy in USA, they have sent a lot of players to Europe recently. It's not La Masia but it's the best there is here.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Dallas has a really good academy. They might not be great compared to the absolute best academies in the world, but their academy teams would do well in the best academy leagues in Spain, England, Germany, Italy.


----------



## Cassano

Who are the top 5 under 21 French CBs ATM? They are ridiculously deep in that position, not sure how they rank.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Cassano said:


> Who are the top 5 under 21 French CBs ATM? They are ridiculously deep in that position, not sure how they rank.




They're ridiculously stacked with U21 center backs playing in Germany alone. I'm sure it only gets crazier when you add those still in France.


----------



## Evilo

I can't answer now because plenty of HFboards posters are in a keeper football league and we have a window soon. Where I plan to bid on at least one 
But yeah, we've got some amazing talents at CB, CM and AMs.
We're a bit thin at striker and FB.


----------



## Cassano

Deficient Mode said:


> They're ridiculously stacked with U21 center backs playing in Germany alone. I'm sure it only gets crazier when you add those still in France.



3 at RasenBall alone


----------



## John Pedro

Gabriel Mrtinelli scored twice today, up to 6 goals and 3 assist in 11 paulistão matches. Fantastic production from a 17y old winger.


----------



## Evilo

Cassano said:


> Who are the top 5 under 21 French CBs ATM? They are ridiculously deep in that position, not sure how they rank.



Come to think about it, plenty of our up and coming U21 have already been drafted in our league so I can give at least a limited answer.

The first name you want to remember is Boubaca Kamara (OM). He's 20 this year, and he's got it all. If you want to picture the next Varane, he's is the guy you want to watch. He's got smarts, skills and lots of poise. He can play DM too. He's the prize IMO. Of course that could change quickly but as of now, he's the main guy.

Then you have the already known CBs : Sarr, Upamecano, Konate, Zagadou, Todibo, etc...

Then you have Jules Kounde who's a little less known, but who's extremely smart and is material of a future captain. A starter for 2 years now in L1 at age 19 isn't common.

And then you have two or three other guys I can't talk about right now.


----------



## phisherman

John Pedro said:


> Gabriel Mrtinelli scored twice today, up to 6 goals and 3 assist in 11 paulistão matches. Fantastic production from a 17y old winger.




He's the one linked to Arsenal?


----------



## John Pedro

phisherman said:


> He's the one linked to Arsenal?




yup


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@Evilo, the best American player in 2004, a CAM named Evan Rotundo, is now on his second trial at Caen. I don't suspect he'll have a hard time getting signed by them as he's an incredibly talented player and has also trialed with some of the big English clubs. However, he has French citizenship and Caen appears to be a real option. The pitch is likely that they could bring him through to the first team quicker. He's training with their U-17's on his trial, which is an age group higher than his normal age group. He couldn't sign in other European countries until he's 16, but he could join Caen or another French club immediately. 

The French Federation might also be scouting him for their youth teams, although he's in the US program, so I don't even know if that would be something he'd entertain.


----------



## Evilo

I'll look into it. I live near Caen.


----------



## Jussi




----------



## John Pedro

Real Madrid trying to sign him already. Kid is a beauty. Two goals so far in Brazil u17 sudamericano debut against Paraguay.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> Real Madrid trying to sign him already. Kid is a beauty. Two goals so far in Brazil u17 sudamericano debut against Paraguay.




At this point it would be cheaper for Madrid to just buy Brasil. Flo would make a better president than the new guy. Sadly


----------



## Cassano

22 goals in 23 games.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

He'll play for England, if he's good. He was in a US youth camp recently, so if he's not good enough for England, I suspect he'll play for us instead of Nigeria. At the same time, we are starting to produce some good strikers, so he might be of little use, if he's not good.


----------



## Cassano

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> He'll play for England, if he's good. He was in a US youth camp recently, so if he's not good enough for England, I suspect he'll play for us instead of Nigeria. At the same time, we are starting to produce some good strikers, so he might be of little use, if he's not good.



He's goal per game player on best U18 English team ATM. Of course this doesn't guarantee anything (see Akpom and Nketiah)


----------



## bluesfan94

Cassano said:


> He's goal per game player on best U18 English team ATM. Of course this doesn't guarantee anything (see Akpom and Nketiah)



Nketiah doesn't really prove anything.


----------



## Cassano

bluesfan94 said:


> Nketiah doesn't really prove anything.



Hasn't done anything since Norwich.


----------



## bluesfan94

Cassano said:


> Hasn't done anything since Norwich.



He hasn’t exactly played much either. Being behind Laca and Auba will do that. He’s still only 19


----------



## Evilo

Boubacar Kamara is getting a huge extension from Marseille who are preparing a huge summer of sales. 
Kamara will be penciled as starter (though he's starting for two months now). His salary will be multiplied by 5.
Shouldn't be enough to keep him beyond summer of 2020.


----------



## YNWA14

Rhian Brewster nets twice on return in U23s friendly win

Yaaaaas Brewster!


----------



## YNWA14

His first goal was real nice too, despite the level of competition.


----------



## John Pedro

He's good


----------



## John Pedro

Matias Palacios, Argentina's no. 10, looks like a great young player. They're beating Brazil 2-0 and he scored both their goals. Argentina need one more goal to qualify to next stage and Brazil (already qualifyed) is down a man.


----------



## John Pedro

Argentina scored in extra time and are in, Brazil is out but qualified to WC as the host country. Very lopsided game with one man down. Palacios was fantastic. Also liked Ceballos. 

Uruguay 7 pts
Paraguay 7 pts
Argentina 7 pts
Brazil 7 pts
Colombia 0 pts

crazy tough group


----------



## Evilo

Maxence Caqueret has put a clinic for Lyon against Barca in youth league. Amazing. He's just two classes above everyone else.
Barca won with a late goal 3-2. Barca youth team seems to have the same success with refs, 
In any case Griffith scored in this game.

But again, Caqueret


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> Matias Palacios, Argentina's no. 10, looks like a great young player. They're beating Brazil 2-0 and he scored both their goals. Argentina need one more goal to qualify to next stage and Brazil (already qualifyed) is down a man.



Yeah, head some noise about him. He's 16 though.

What type of players does he resemble?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> Maxence Caqueret has put a clinic for Lyon against Barca in youth league. Amazing. He's just two classes above everyone else.
> Barca won with a late goal 3-2. Barca youth team seems to have the same success with refs,
> In any case Griffith scored in this game.
> 
> But again, Caqueret




I liked what I saw from the CB Oumar Solet. I thought he was the best Lyon player. I didn't know who he was and googled him during the game. I wasn't surprised to see he's already debuted with the first team. 

It was also announced today that Lyon's U17 team is playing at the Generation Adidas Cup in Dallas that starts in a week and a half. They usually stream a lot of the matches for that tournament.


----------



## Evilo

Solet is a nice prospect. Ref decided he was too good so he blew a laughable penalty on him in ET to give Barca the win.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Yeah, head some noise about him. He's 16 though.
> 
> What type of players does he resemble?




Rumors that he's heading to Internazionale. He kinda reminded me of Kevin de Bruyne but I feel he's more talented... his dribbling is simply amazing, looks effortless and the way he controls the tempo of the match is kind like Riquelme used to do. Great range on his shot too. People are excited about him and I can see why he could be Argentina's next superstar after Messi retires/declines. A mix between Riquelme, Iniesta and de Bruyne.

His second goal against Brazil shows a bit of his great shooting


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Ulysses Llanez, who is one of the best American players in the 2001 year, joined Wolfsburg. Very one-dimensional left winger, but players can never stop his one dimension. Its reminiscent of Robben, but on the other side of the field. He has a chance to make our Sub20 World Cup team. He was incredibly good in the qualifying.


----------



## YNWA14

John Pedro said:


> Rumors that he's heading to Internazionale. He kinda reminded me of Kevin de Bruyne but I feel he's more talented... his dribbling is simply amazing, looks effortless and the way he controls the tempo of the match is kind like Riquelme used to do. Great range on his shot too. People are excited about him and I can see why he could be Argentina's next superstar after Messi retires/declines. A mix between Riquelme, Iniesta and de Bruyne.
> 
> His second goal against Brazil shows a bit of his great shooting




His first touch to set up the shot was perfect, also. Very underrated skill.


----------



## Ivan13

Dinamo converted its 2nd chance to take a 1-0 lead against Chelsea in CL QF. Should've been 2-0 up.


----------



## Ivan13

Chelsea goes through on penalties. Dinamo dropped a two goal lead. Shame there’s only one game played.


----------



## YNWA14

Who do you think is better Reinier or Palacios? @John Pedro I would throw Gravenberch in there but I doubt you've seen as much of him.


----------



## Evilo

Don't answer @John Pedro please. Or at least after monday. Please.


----------



## YNWA14

Which of these guys do you prefer @Evilo?

Lucien Agoume
Benoît Badiashile
Han-Noah Massengo
Georginio Rutter
Arthur Zagre
Timothée Pembele
William Saliba
Jonathan Bakali
Florent Da Silva


----------



## Evilo

None of the above.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> Rumors that he's heading to Internazionale. He kinda reminded me of Kevin de Bruyne but I feel he's more talented... his dribbling is simply amazing, looks effortless and the way he controls the tempo of the match is kind like Riquelme used to do. Great range on his shot too. People are excited about him and I can see why he could be Argentina's next superstar after Messi retires/declines. A mix between Riquelme, Iniesta and de Bruyne.
> 
> His second goal against Brazil shows a bit of his great shooting





Well excuse me I have to change my underwear.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> None of the above.






He’ll answer you after Monday


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Luigi Habs said:


> He’ll answer you after Monday



What’s going on Monday?


----------



## YNWA14

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> What’s going on Monday?



Inside joke. You needed to be there.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

YNWA14 said:


> Inside joke. You needed to be there.



Was my invitation in the mail?


----------



## Evilo

It's a dynasty league we're in.


----------



## VEGASKING

I'm going to outbid you on the correct answer anyways


----------



## Evilo

VEGASKING said:


> I'm going to outbid you on the correct answer anyways


----------



## Cassano

Cassano said:


> He's goal per game player on best U18 English team ATM. Of course this doesn't guarantee anything (see Akpom and Nketiah)



Balogun scored 4 goals yesterday. Arsenal u18 need one more win to secure title.


----------



## VEGASKING

Evilo said:


>




Thank you for leaving Badiashile to me


----------



## Evilo

Grrrrr...


----------



## Evilo

YNWA14 said:


> Who do you think is better Reinier or Palacios? @John Pedro I would throw Gravenberch in there but I doubt you've seen as much of him.



@John Pedro
OK, here's why I picked Palacios over Reinier.
Reinier is a fantastic talent, tall, will be a powerful player. He really reminds me of Raï if you remember him. Tall 10/shadow striker that captained Brazil to the 94 WC.
But that's exactly why I didn't pick Reinier above Palacios. His physique isn't meant to be played anywhere else than AMC/SS. He doesn't have the speed and skills to play CM or wing IMO.
Palacios is quicker and can play either wing, CM or 10 down the road. I really could see him play CM. He can adapt to many systems while the system needs to be adapted for Reinier.

@John Pedro Thoughts?


----------



## John Pedro

Evilo said:


> @John Pedro
> OK, here's why I picked Palacios over Reinier.
> Reinier is a fantastic talent, tall, will be a powerful player. He really reminds me of Raï if you remember him. Tall 10/shadow striker that captained Brazil to the 94 WC.
> But that's exactly why I didn't pick Reinier above Palacios. His physique isn't meant to be played anywhere else than AMC/SS. He doesn't have the speed and skills to play CM or wing IMO.
> Palacios is quicker and can play either wing, CM or 10 down the road. I really could see him play CM. He can adapt to many systems while the system needs to be adapted for Reinier.
> 
> @John Pedro Thoughts?




I can see a bit of Raí on Reinier, but I didn't catch Raí on his prime only when he returned from PSG to Sao Paulo in 1998 and I was rather young to remember much of him. I see a lot of Paqueta on Reinier(Reinier is more talented and less of a showman), though. He could play as a CM but it would be a waste, imo. A guy like that should play as close to opp goal as possible, he could even end up as a striker where I feel he would really thrive giving his shooting, technique and aerial presence.

Palacios, on the other hand, is way more unpredictable, you never know what he gonna do next. He can go on a rush and dribble past three to four defenders or simply lay a long pass/through ball to an open teammate. His upside is higher, imo. I'd say he's more talented than Reinier but also a way riskier bet.

I have no doubt Reinier is going to be a good player. Palacios could be great or the next Iturbe. It's like picking a really small defenseman that has out of this world skills in the NHL. Could be a huge home run or a complete failure.


----------



## Evilo

Gotcha.
Yeah Reinier is only playable in two positions : ST or AMC.
Palacios has more variety in terms of potential positions.


----------



## Il Mediano

John Pedro said:


> or the next Iturbe




Life isn't fair.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

He'll probably turn into another Iturbe. Argentina suck a developing.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> He'll probably turn into another Iturbe. Argentina suck a developing.





Keep a close eye on Exequiel Zeballos also from Argentina u17 team. Boca Junior's winger. Amazing dribbling skills. He had two amazing plays on Argentina first two goals in their 3-0 win against Paraguay.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> Keep a close eye on Exequiel Zeballos also from Argentina u17 team. Boca Junior's winger. Amazing dribbling skills. He had two amazing plays on Argentina first two goals in their 3-0 win against Paraguay.




Will do. When does the u17 World Cup begin?


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Will do. When does the u17 World Cup begin?




oct 5th


----------



## Il Mediano

Dunno if someone's already mentioned him , but Sandro Tonali's been getting a ton of a hype in Italy. 



Naturally, I hope Roma gets him as I think he'd be the perfect heir to De Rossi , but there's a lot of competition for his signature this summer.


----------



## Ajacied

I remember him making an impression on me during the EC U19 when I was trying to watch Portugal's Joao Felix. Very elegant and high IQ player.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@Ajacied, I've definitely asked you this before, but what do you think about Dest's development? Could he play next season in the first team at Ajax or is it more likely he'll have to move to a smaller Eredivisie club?


----------



## Ajacied

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> @Ajacied, I've definitely asked you this before, but what do you think about Dest's development? Could he play next season in the first team at Ajax or is it more likely he'll have to move to a smaller Eredivisie club?




Not a chance. Veltman, Mazraoui and Kristenssen are Ajax' RB's right now and neither look to be leaving. If anything, Ajax will upgrade on Kristenssen and not from within. Dest is still too raw; offensively very gifted, great pace and technique, but defensively still very vulnerable. He might make his debut next season when injuries appear and perhaps make some minutes in a cup game, but he should focus on Ajax II next season as well. 

Will be interesting to see if he gets invited to training camp this summer. It usually means he'll get minutes somewhere that season. He's worked his way up from the U19 to Ajax II and is now the starting RB, stealing Navaro Bakboord's spot, so that's a nice indication that things are going well for him.

If things still don't look promising after next season, I'm sure he will be looked at to gain experience somewhere else, but I expect him to be with Ajax I in 2020/2021.


----------



## Ajacied

I am attending the Future Cup this weekend. A small, but prestige U17 youth tournament held at Ajax. I love this age group the most.

Participating teams: Ajax, Anderlecht, Juventus, PSG, Tottenham Hotspurs, Atletico Madrid, Boca Juniors and Sagan Tosu.

Ajax is fielding a nice squad, but misses Gravenberch, who's with young Ajax and often even Ajax I. Unuvar, Taylor, Hansen, Hoogewerf, Pinas and Salah-Eddine are most promising on Ajax side.


----------



## Ajacied

Heh. What a weird turn of events.

Teams played two matches of 60 minutes today, with just two hours in between. I watched the two Ajax matches of course and saw some glimpses of the Anderlecht - Atletico match.

Ajax beat Juventus 1-0, but it should've been 3 or 4-0. I don't recall Juve having any real opportunities.

Watching Unuvar live is something else. Unuvar was the top scorer last year as a 14 year old and even scored the lonely goal vs Juventus today. But that wasn't what made him stand out. The kid is so lightning fast. Very agile and hard to contain. He's only 1.60 I think, but has so much power in his passes and shot, accurate too. He's throwing passes out there with the outside of his foot. I think he's a better prospect than van de Vaart, Sneijder, Eriksen, Frenkie de Jong, Donny van de Beek, Mathijs de Ligt or Abdelhak Nouri were at that age, though I don't like to hype him up too much as he still has ways to go.
Salah-Eddine is something special as well. So technically gifted and comfortable with the ball. I think he might already be better than Mitchel Bakker, who will leave to PSG this summer.
Hoogewerf has had a very disappointing season and today was no exception.
Sontje Hansen had tons of scoring chances. Most dangerous forward out there, but just wasn't clinical.
Captain Kenneth Taylor was injured from the get go. He left the game after a minute and his tournament looks to be done. Very unfortunate. Might be the team's biggest prospect after Unuvar.
Solomon Bonnah, RB and just 15 years old looked very interesting. Very rusty and an unpolished diamond, but he showcased tons of skill with the ball and was feisty in his defensive tasks.
Here's Unuvar's goal. The clip doesn't show the amazing skill of Salah-Eddine entirely which set up this whole attack, which is too bad:



Then, Ajax faced Sagan Tosu; a team who normally would never be considered for these type of tournaments. But Ajax has started an affiliation with them, hoping to gain interest from the Japanese market so they were invited as well. Ajax played with a different side this time. You could see the nonchalance among the Ajax players from the get go. They were stumped 3-0, with Sagan Tosu pressuring Ajax like I've never seen before. Pretty comical.

Jeremy Doku, from Anderlecht, got my attention during the bits I saw from Anderlecht - Atletico. Very fast and strong. Played wing but looked like a capable striker as well. I believe it was him who caught my eye last year as well.

All teams in group A now have 3 points (Juventus, Ajax, Tottenham and Sagan Tosu). In group B Anderlecht leads with 4 points, followed by Boca and PSG with 3 each. Atletico is last with one point. The tournament continues tomorrow.


----------



## YNWA14

Ajacied said:


> Heh. What a weird turn of events.
> 
> Teams played two matches of 60 minutes today, with just two hours in between. I watched the two Ajax matches of course and saw some glimpses of the Anderlecht - Atletico match.
> 
> Ajax beat Juventus 1-0, but it should've been 3 or 4-0. I don't recall Juve having any real opportunities.
> 
> Watching Unuvar live is something else. Unuvar was the top scorer last year as a 14 year old and even scored the lonely goal vs Juventus today. But that wasn't what made him stand out. The kid is so lightning fast. Very agile and hard to contain. He's only 1.60 I think, but has so much power in his passes and shot, accurate too. He's throwing passes out there with the outside of his foot. I think he's a better prospect than van de Vaart, Sneijder, Eriksen, Frenkie de Jong, Donny van de Beek, Mathijs de Ligt or Abdelhak Nouri were at that age, though I don't like to hype him up too much as he still has ways to go.
> Salah-Eddine is something special as well. So technically gifted and comfortable with the ball. I think he might already be better than Mitchel Bakker, who will leave to PSG this summer.
> Hoogewerf has had a very disappointing season and today was no exception.
> Sontje Hansen had tons of scoring chances. Most dangerous forward out there, but just wasn't clinical.
> Captain Kenneth Taylor was injured from the get go. He left the game after a minute and his tournament looks to be done. Very unfortunate. Might be the team's biggest prospect after Unuvar.
> Solomon Bonnah, RB and just 15 years old looked very interesting. Very rusty and an unpolished diamond, but he showcased tons of skill with the ball and was feisty in his defensive tasks.
> Here's Unuvar's goal. The clip doesn't show the amazing skill of Salah-Eddine entirely which set up this whole attack, which is too bad:
> 
> 
> 
> Then, Ajax faced Sagan Tosu; a team who normally would never be considered for these type of tournaments. But Ajax has started an affiliation with them, hoping to gain interest from the Japanese market so they were invited as well. Ajax played with a different side this time. You could see the nonchalance among the Ajax players from the get go. They were stumped 3-0, with Sagan Tosu pressuring Ajax like I've never seen before. Pretty comical.
> 
> Jeremy Doku, from Anderlecht, got my attention during the bits I saw from Anderlecht - Atletico. Very fast and strong. Played wing but looked like a capable striker as well. I believe it was him who caught my eye last year as well.
> 
> All teams in group A now have 3 points (Juventus, Ajax, Tottenham and Sagan Tosu). In group B Anderlecht leads with 4 points, followed by Boca and PSG with 3 each. Atletico is last with one point. The tournament continues tomorrow.




Yeah, from what I've seen of Hansen and Taylor they're both big, big talents for Ajax and Unuvar is definitely the biggest talent since Nouri, and as you said I think he is probably better by a significant margin at the same age. Doku looks incredibly good as well.


----------



## Ajacied

Ajax beat Tottenham with 1-0. Ajax dominated large stretches of the match and should've scored more often. The Spurs missed an absolute sitter in front of an empty net in the later stages of the game as well, but it wouldn't have been deserved. Of course it was Unuvar who scored.

Few really stood out on Tottenham's side. Though I liked their mammoth defenders; great blend of size, strength and pace.

Meanwhile Anderlecht, who have a great education themselves, are manhandling PSG. Already 4-0 in barely 40 minutes.


----------



## John Pedro

Amazing goal by Antony in Paulistao finals. Huge upside. 19y old.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

I'm increasingly excited for the u20s next month. When do the squads come out though?


----------



## Ajacied

Ajax faced Anderlecht in the semi final of the Future Cup. They won 2-0 and never really got into trouble. Unuvar assisted on both goals. Second goal:



Doku was nowhere to be seen. Bonnah played him well. Anderlecht's Killian Sardella got my attention this time. Very talented CB, both defensively as building up. Prevented some 100% opportunities with well timed tackles and looked very comfortable and confident with the ball. Showed tons of leadership and passion, too. One to keep an eye out for.

Ajax will play Juventus in the final, the team they beat in the tournament opener, in a few hours.


----------



## Ajacied

It's insane how the juveniles of Juventus play like their first squad does. Ajax were the better one by a considerable margin, but Juventus converted on their two chances and pretty much parked the bus the entire game; receiving plenty of yellows and even a red card in the process. Hats of to them, though. They withstood some serious pressure. Naci Unuvar had a rough match. His brother or nephew, uncle, not sure, mentioned how he had a fever and blood poisoning last night and that he shouldn't have played, but he just made some bad decisions all around. Wanted the title a little too much, there I think. The final made me a bigger fan of Bonnah and Rensch, two defenders. 

I think Ajax and Anderlecht were the best teams of the tournament. Unuvar (Ajax), Bonnah (Ajax), Rensch (Ajax), El Hadj (Anderlecht), Doku (Anderlecht), Sardella (Anderlecht) and Abou Tehera (Juventus) looked most promising. Anderlecht also had 14 year old playing striker; Vercauteren or something like that, couldn't quite remember, but he looked interesting as well.


----------



## Il Mediano

Ajacied said:


> It's insane how the juveniles of Juventus play like their first squad does.




It's almost as if it's the club's DNA.


----------



## Ajacied

Il Mediano said:


> It's almost as if it's the club's DNA.




It works, though


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@Ajacied, would you give good reviews or bad reviews on Pynadath? From what I’ve read, he’s not much of a real prospect at Ajax. He’s an American, so I hope he does well, but he’s way down the list of Americans in his age group, I’m afraid. And it seems like he’s also way down the list of Ajax prospects in his age group.


----------



## Ajacied

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> @Ajacied, would you give good reviews or bad reviews on Pynadath? From what I’ve read, he’s not much of a real prospect at Ajax. He’s an American, so I hope he does well, but he’s way down the list of Americans in his age group, I’m afraid. And it seems like he’s also way down the list of Ajax prospects in his age group.




I never watched him in person or even on streams much, until this Saturday where he came in as a sub vs Sagan Tosu. Didn't do anything of significance, but the whole team had trouble with Sagan's high and constant pressure. Ajax fans usually like his speed and technique. Seems like a typical Ajax winger. His Real Madrid past has created a bit of a hype he has yet to meet, though. Not sure about his upside, really. The fact that he only came in as a sub, in a match where Ajax was already fielding a B-squad, and how he is one of the oldest ones already, makes me wonder about him sniffing Ajax 1 someday.


----------



## MaxV

FC Krasnodar's 20-year-old GK Matvey Safonov is really talented. Last 2 weeks he has made a bunch of awesome world class saves.

Still needs to work on positional understanding, but he can make all the saves.


----------



## Savant

Liverpool u18 beat Man City u18 for FA Youth Cup


----------



## Ajacied

Watched bits of the Chelsea vs Porto final in the UEFA youth league. Finished 1-3 in favor of Porto. They were the better side. Porto have themselves a strong selection. Well conditioned, strong, won most their battles and were efficient with their chances. 

Charlie Brown only came in as a sub, which was odd. He's the top scorer of the competition by a considerable margin and impresses me whenever I see him play. 
Daishwan Redan scored the lonely goal for Chelsea; a nice header. Kid should leave Chelsea as soon as possible as I'd like to see what he's capable off on the big stage. I think he's been active at this level a little too long. Not sure about his upside, though. I think some of the talents of the Eredivisie might have passed him on my prospect list. 
Juan Castillo looked very good. Very talented two-way back. Assisted on Redan's goal, too.
Ian Maatsen looked decent as well. Feisty, but had some troubles with Porto's fast paced and physical game at times.
Romario Baro is a fine striker/AM. Didn't score but very active and involved.
Fabio Silva impressed me as well. Agile forward who looks to be as deadly a playmaker as he is a finisher. Did a ton of defensive work, too.
All the Porto defenders were a-typical Portuguese defenders; not the big, rugged oafs, but very smart positionally and comfortable with the ball. Diego Leite in particular. 
.. still think Ajax has the best U19 selection from all I've seen, even though this Porto was very impressive, but with Ajax' philosophy it's hard keeping a team in tact and build chemistry. As soon as a player performs well for a small period, he will move up an age group to face a more mature opposition.


----------



## Ajacied

The European Championship U17 in Ireland start today. 

Participating teams: 

Group A) Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Ireland.
Group B) England, the Netherlands, France, Sweden
Group C) Hungary, Iceland, Portugal, Russia
Group D) Austria, Germany, Italy, Spain

Group B and D are just not fair. Not a very balanced draw.

Potential Oranje line-up:

FW: Brobbey (Ajax)
FW: Hansen (Ajax)
FW: Bannis (Feyenoord)

MF: Ihatarran (PSV)
MF: Gravenberch (Ajax)
MF: Unuvar (Ajax)
MF: Fits-Jim (Ajax)

DF: Maatsen (Chelsea)
DF: Hoever (Liverpool)
DF: Salah-Eddine (Ajax)
DF: Bogarde (Hoffenheim)

GK: Raatsie (Ajax)

EDIT: Never mind. Ihatarran and Gravenberch are with PSV and Ajax and didn't come with the team. Fitz-Jim is with the U15.


----------



## YNWA14

Missing those two (Ihattarren and Gravenberch) kinda sucks. Especially since there's no reason for them not to be there.


----------



## Venkman

Games are being streamed on UEFA.tv YouTube. Hopefully no region blocks. Going on previous games and the squad, England might look like:

S.Greenwood
Rogers Madueke Knight
Azeez Weir/Musah
Bondswell Roberts Harwood-Bellis Walcott
Moulden​Not sure on RB as usual RB Livramento isn't in the squad, presumbly injured. Roberts usually plays LB for England but CB for Brighton. 

Nathan Wood is missing who is a regular at CB, has been on the bench for Middlesbrough recently. Fabio Carvalho, Harvey Elliot and Alex Mighten also not the squad.


----------



## Evilo

I like Greenwood.


----------



## bluesfan94

Nice to see Arsenal has a couple in that potential starting 11


----------



## phisherman

bluesfan94 said:


> Nice to see Arsenal has a couple in that potential starting 11




They have 3. Greenwood, Azeez and Musah. Not bad for such a shit academy.


----------



## Venkman

Evilo said:


> I like Greenwood.




Scored a couple against France I think earlier in the year. Comfortably two footed, can play any attacking position. Has a nice fk/long shot.


----------



## YNWA14

phisherman said:


> They have 3. Greenwood, Azeez and Musah. Not bad for such a **** academy.



Out of curiosity what makes Arsenal's academy shit?


----------



## phisherman

YNWA14 said:


> Out of curiosity what makes Arsenal's academy ****?




I'm not being serious.

Non Arsenal fans dismiss any youth talent they have.


----------



## YNWA14

phisherman said:


> I'm not being serious.
> 
> Non Arsenal fans dismiss any youth talent they have.



I know you weren't being serious I just was curious as to why.


----------



## bluesfan94

phisherman said:


> I'm not being serious.
> 
> Non Arsenal fans dismiss any youth talent they have.



England's best striker is a product of Arsenal's academy, so it's silly people still think this


----------



## YNWA14

bluesfan94 said:


> England's best striker is a product of Arsenal's academy, so it's silly people still think this



Who thinks this though?

Specific prospects I believe were just not set on the same level as some other prospects, at a specific point in time. Development is not linear and has nothing to do with saying Arsenal has a bad academy.


----------



## bluesfan94

YNWA14 said:


> Who thinks this though?
> 
> Specific prospects I believe were just not set on the same level as some other prospects, at a specific point in time. Development is not linear and has nothing to do with saying Arsenal has a bad academy.



I've seen it offhand in here once or twice. I don't really remember by whom


----------



## John Pedro

Antony has already 19 dribbles in just two Brasileirao matches. Also has two assist. He's soooo fun to watch. Incredible talent. He's improving game by game, wouldn't surprise me one bit if Tite call him up to the NT, though he does need to improve his finishing skills.

His lastest match


----------



## Ajacied

John Pedro said:


> Antony has already 19 dribbles in just two Brasileirao matches. Also has two assist. He's soooo fun to watch. Incredible talent. He's improving game by game, wouldn't surprise me one bit if Tite call him up to the NT, though he does need to improve his finishing skills.
> 
> His lastest match





I hope he doesn't make the NT. That would make it near impossible for Ajax to get him as I already think he's out of their league. Ajax remains aggressive, though. Fingers crossed.


----------



## John Pedro

Ajacied said:


> I hope he doesn't make the NT. That would make it near impossible for Ajax to get him as I already think he's out of their league. Ajax remains aggressive, though. Fingers crossed.




Don't worry, I don't think he'll make the NT right now, but I feel he's entered Tite's radar as he's been our best player since his debut and is improving at a rapid pace. However, Ajax would've to pony up like never before to get him, his release clause is 50m euros and I don't see the Raí selling him for less than 40m, it would be career suicide. He'll also make money selling Arboleda so there isn't much need to sell our best player that happens to be a 19y improving by the day. More likely to sign a new deal with an even larger release clause.

Won't mind him joining Ajax next season (after December not right now) if you guys pay 40m and we keep some of % in a future sell.


----------



## Il Mediano

damn, that kid looks magical.


----------



## Ajacied

John Pedro said:


> Don't worry, I don't think he'll make the NT right now, but I feel he's entered Tite's radar as he's been our best player since his debut and is improving at a rapid pace. However, Ajax would've to pony up like never before to get him, his release clause is 50m euros and I don't see the Raí selling him for less than 40m, it would be career suicide. He'll also make money selling Arboleda so there isn't much need to sell our best player that happens to be a 19y improving by the day. More likely to sign a new deal with an even larger release clause.
> 
> Won't mind him joining Ajax next season (after December not right now) if you guys pay 40m and we keep some of % in a future sell.




That rules Ajax out then. They won't pony up 40M, as much as I'd like them to do so for Antony.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Evilo

Imagine this team :

Coman-Dembele-Ikone (Bayern, Lyon, Lille)
ClaudioGomes-Soumare-Adli (City, Lille, Bordeaux)
BalloToure-EboaEboa-Zagadou-Dembele (Monaco, Guingamp, Dortmund, Salzburg)
Maignan (Lille)

With Edouard (Celtic) on the bench.

That could be the PSG bench depth. All from PSG academy. All are 22 or under except Maignan (23). All gone for peanuts.
When I sai this team makes stupid transfer decisions, I'm not kidding.


----------



## Evilo

Rayan Cherki, 15 year old, was asked to stop playing with the pro group in order to help the U17 Lyon team to reach the semi final of the U17 french Cup.
So he went there, against players two years older, and he did this :

He was given a free tour of Old Trafford and the United training facility last week, just in case he was toying with the idea of leaving Lyon before signing pro (which will never happen).


----------



## John Pedro

João Pedro just scored twice for Fluminense in their win against Cruzeiro. He's just 17y old and has already been sold to Watford for 10m euros. Next Richarlison?


----------



## John Pedro

Fluminense also has Marcos Paulo, 17y old, as a very promissing winger/atck midfielder. Had 2 assist in that game.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

I have some Mbappe vibe in Rayan Cherki. I think in 5 years he will be considered a generational talent. He reminds me in his style of Messi.

I truly hope he stays at Lyon before moving abroad especially if it's for manchester united.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> João Pedro just scored twice for Fluminense in their win against Cruzeiro. He's just 17y old and has already been sold to Watford for 10m euros. Next Richarlison?







John Pedro said:


> Fluminense also has Marcos Paulo, 17y old, as a very promissing winger/atck midfielder. Had 2 assist in that game.




Are they related to @John Pedro?


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Are they related to @John Pedro?




 no way!


----------



## ecemleafs

Karamoko Dembele made his debut for Celtic today at 16 years old. Played the entire 2nd half and apparently played quite well.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Imagine this team :
> 
> Coman-Dembele-Ikone (Bayern, Lyon, Lille)
> ClaudioGomes-Soumare-Adli (City, Lille, Bordeaux)
> BalloToure-EboaEboa-Zagadou-Dembele (Monaco, Guingamp, Dortmund, Salzburg)
> Maignan (Lille)
> 
> With Edouard (Celtic) on the bench.
> 
> That could be the PSG bench depth. All from PSG academy. All are 22 or under except Maignan (23). All gone for peanuts.
> When I sai this team makes stupid transfer decisions, I'm not kidding.



Where do you think that team finishes in L1


----------



## Evilo

Mid-table at least.


----------



## Ajacied

> *9) Brian Brobbey ST - 87D - Ajax/HOL*
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0zmAc8Dyz8
> Style comparison: Didier Drogba
> Maxed potential: Top 10 at his position
> *
> Pro’s:*
> - *Ridiculously strong (club even forbids him to work with weights now)*; imposing forward.
> - Likes to play with his back towards the goal, hold the ball and wait for his teammates to position themselves, or turn and shoot himself.
> - Underrated speed for a man his size, especially when at full speed.
> - Powerful shot and a strong, fearless header.
> - Deadly in the box. Knows where to be at the right time.
> - Even played winger before, and while his main assets were wasted there, he better understands when and where to anticipate on crosses.
> 
> *Cons:*
> - Not much of a playmaker.
> - No finesse.
> - A deep lying striker; not that useful without the ball.
> - Needs to surround himself with playmakers and crossing wingers to be most effective.
> - His physical head start will level out once he reaches Ajax I. Will be interesting to see how he holds up.




Exhibit A:


----------



## SJSharks72

Dillon Hoogewerf is set to join United. Any report on him @Ajacied


----------



## Ajacied

Pretty big talent. Among the top of his age group in fact. Ajax has been trying to sign him since February. Not sure why they haven't been able to do so. Maybe it's because Hoogewerf wants to explore his options. He has been coveted for a while now. Some pundits with Ajax ties consider him, Redan (now Chelsea) and Unuvar as the 3 biggest attacking talents of the Ajax academy. Personally I have troubles gauging his upside. He joined the academy as a striker, but moved to the wing due to his lack of size. This season he's played at the #8 and #10. Midfield seems like his position for now. Short, technically gifted player. High football IQ, smart shot (not powerful, but very accurate) and passionate. More of a goalscorer than a playmaker, but that might be the striker instincts still inside him.

He made my soccer prospect list a year ago as a 14/15 year old. Rated him an 80C, which I still think applies. I think he's a poor man's Daishawn Redan in a lot of aspects.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

@John Pedro little brother Joao scored a hat trick in the first 33 minutes.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> @John Pedro little brother Joao scored a hat trick in the first 33 minutes.






7 goals in just 10 games as a pro... what a get for Watford.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> 7 goals in just 10 games as a pro... what a get for Watford.



The real coup by Watford is Pavon. Really though didn’t know Watford got him already he probably derailed/ruined his career


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> The real coup by Watford is Pavon. Really though didn’t know Watford got him already he probably derailed/ruined his career




they would form a nice duo in the PL


----------



## John Pedro

João Pedro scored again. 8 goals in 11 games.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> João Pedro scored again. 8 goals in 11 games.




So, I take it he's leaps and bounds better than any other SA prospect? That goal ratio is just dumb.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Does anyone know anything about this player?


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> So, I take it he's leaps and bounds better than any other SA prospect? That goal ratio is just dumb.




Too early to tell, imo. He wasn't the most hyped player out of the 01 class in youth so don't know if it's legit or just a really hot start. 

Fun plot: Fluminense could cancel his transfer to Watford for 20m euros. There already been rumors about bigger european clubs scouting him and exploring a 30m deal for him, so Fluminense would use 20m to trigger that clause and keep 10m.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

John Pedro said:


> Too early to tell, imo. He wasn't the most hyped player out of the 01 class in youth so don't know if it's legit or just a really hot start.
> 
> Fun plot: Fluminense could cancel his transfer to Watford for 20m euros. There already been rumors about bigger european clubs scouting him and exploring a 30m deal for him, so Fluminense would use 20m to trigger that clause and keep 10m.




How is Rodrygo playing? It looks like he's struggled since his initial breakthrough.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> Too early to tell, imo. He wasn't the most hyped player out of the 01 class in youth so don't know if it's legit or just a really hot start.
> 
> Fun plot: Fluminense could cancel his transfer to Watford for 20m euros. There already been rumors about bigger european clubs scouting him and exploring a 30m deal for him, so Fluminense would use 20m to trigger that clause and keep 10m.



How does he compare to the Argentina boys De Le Vega and Almada?


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> How does he compare to the Argentina boys De Le Vega and Almada?




I don't know these two kids, tbh.



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> How is Rodrygo playing? It looks like he's struggled since his initial breakthrough.




His start of the season was truly awful even though he was the lone silver lining in Brazil u20 team. He's improving, but most been hit and miss. Had a fantastic game against Vasco then followed with two mediocre ones. Sampaoli's positional attack kind limits him, he wasn't used to such a rigid system.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I'm sure some of the Dutch posters know about this guy. Can we please get a report on how good he is?


----------



## Ajacied

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm sure some of the Dutch posters know about this guy. Can we please get a report on how good he is?





Yes sir. Ajax showed interest in him a few years ago, but he opted for Manchester United at the time. No idea why he moved to City, but I guess they wanted him badly. Have since only watched him play for the Oranje youth squads, but tried to read up on him during his City days. Scores easily (over a goal a game) and was moved to City's U18 when he was still 15 years old. Even scored a hattrick within 20 minutes a while ago. Likes to dribble, wonderful technique, smart, efficient in the box. Whenever I watch him I expect him to be faster then he really is. That's why he didn't work out as a winger in Oranje. He's a real striker now. I think he can be a little more light footed as well.

Ajax getting Ohio would be nice. They lose about two players his caliber each year, so it stops the bleeding a bit.


----------



## robertmac43

Anyone know anything about James Furlong? 17 Y/O that plays for Shamrocks. Apparently Brighton are very interested.


----------



## robertmac43




----------



## YNWA14

It feels like it will take forever to see Moukoko on the biggest stage to see if he can translate that prodigious talent.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

robertmac43 said:


>





He should've been playing in the U-19's this season.


----------



## Evilo

Yeah Cherki trained with the reserve pro team this year. And played U19.


----------



## SJSharks72

Ajacied said:


> Pretty big talent. Among the top of his age group in fact. Ajax has been trying to sign him since February. Not sure why they haven't been able to do so. Maybe it's because Hoogewerf wants to explore his options. He has been coveted for a while now. Some pundits with Ajax ties consider him, Redan (now Chelsea) and Unuvar as the 3 biggest attacking talents of the Ajax academy. Personally I have troubles gauging his upside. He joined the academy as a striker, but moved to the wing due to his lack of size. This season he's played at the #8 and #10. Midfield seems like his position for now. Short, technically gifted player. High football IQ, smart shot (not powerful, but very accurate) and passionate. More of a goalscorer than a playmaker, but that might be the striker instincts still inside him.
> 
> He made my soccer prospect list a year ago as a 14/15 year old. Rated him an 80C, which I still think applies. I think he's a poor man's Daishawn Redan in a lot of aspects.





SJSharks39 said:


> Dillon Hoogewerf is set to join United. Any report on him @Ajacied




Now official. Also quoted Ajacied scouting report so he doesn’t have to redo it.


----------



## Evilo

Nantes has a golden generation coming up.
They destroyed the U17 league (26 games, 24 wins, 2 ties, 0 loss, 103 goals scored, 13 goals against  ) and then the playoffs, eliminating Lyon (with Cherki scoring the wonder goal remember) 3-1 and then winning the final 6-3 against a huge Lille team (that ousted Monaco along the way).
This team has won basically every tournament they've played growing up. They won the Mini Mondial in U11 (half the team was already there in U11), won several tournament in U12, U13, U14 and finished 3rd on what is commonly considered the CL of the U16 tournament in Montaigu last year.


----------



## Evilo

A few other things : 
- Tramoni, 15 year old and about to sign with PSG for 3M€, scored 9 goals and 11 assists in 20 U17 games. As a midfielder.
- Amine Gouiri in the last 4 youth selections international competitions : 20 goals in 16 games (9 in 5 Euro U17, 5 in 4 U18 WC, 4 in 4 Euro U19, 2 in 3 so far in WC U20)


----------



## John Pedro

This kid is fantastic, watched him debut for Novorizontino at 16 against Santos. Shame he went to Real so young, let's hope he can make it there but I bet he'll be loaned out then become a good player for a lesser side.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Do any Arsenal fans know anything about Bukayo Saka? Is he any good?


----------



## Cassano

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Do any Arsenal fans know anything about Bukayo Saka? Is he any good?




He's really f***ing good. Played for the u-18s at the start of the season, killed it, played for u-23s rest of the way and was probably the best player in the league. Made a couple of senior appearances but didn't really get a chance to shine. 

He's probably our most promising prospect in a group of very talented youngsters.


----------



## phisherman

Cassano said:


> He's really ****ing good. Played for the u-18s at the start of the season, killed it, played for u-23s rest of the way and was probably the best player in the league. Made a couple of senior appearances but didn't really get a chance to shine.
> 
> He's probably our most promising prospect in a group of very talented youngsters.




You're completely wrong. Arsenal don't develop talent. If Saka leaves for Dortmund they would be the ones that developed him because Arsenal's youth sucks.


----------



## Ajacied

Any followers of South American football have any info on Carlos Cuesta, a 20 year old CB from Atletico Nacional? Ajax reportedly paid 6M for him.


----------



## Ajacied

Another high end talent in Solomon Bonnah is leaving the Ajax academy after 8 years for money/an adventure abroad as soon as he was able to sign a contact. He declined Ajax, but also Liverpool, Chelsea, PSG and Juventus. RB Leipzig will be his new team, which is a bit surprising. Bonnah will be the third youngster that will leave this summer (Bakker - PSG and Hoogewerg - Manchester United). Not sure if there are better places to develop youth, but money must have been a bigger issue. Good luck to them either way.

Bonnah is a wild, feisty and energetic two way back. Still lacking size now at 15 years of age, but he was impressive at the future Cup, playing with players four years older than him.


----------



## Evilo

Cuesta is very smart with the ball, high IQ and thus anticipates well.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Ajacied said:


> Another high end talent in Solomon Bonnah is leaving the Ajax academy after 8 years for money/an adventure abroad as soon as he was able to sign a contact. He declined Ajax, but also Liverpool, Chelsea, PSG and Juventus. RB Leipzig will be his new team, which is a bit surprising. Bonnah will be the third youngster that will leave this summer (Bakker - PSG and Hoogewerg - Manchester United). Not sure if there are better places to develop youth, but money must have been a bigger issue. Good luck to them either way.
> 
> Bonnah is a wild, feisty and energetic two way back. Still lacking size now at 15 years of age, but he was impressive at the future Cup, playing with players four years older than him.




Leipzig can pay big salaries, but also has the youngest average age of their first team in Europe. There might not be a better team in Europe to sign with if you want to break through and play at a high level.


----------



## Ajacied

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Leipzig can pay big salaries, but also has the youngest average age of their first team in Europe. There might not be a better team in Europe to sign with if you want to break through and play at a high level.




I like Ajax much more in that regard, but Bonnah must have done his homework. Hope he succeeds.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

18 year old Sebastian Soto is likely to leave Hannover with contract talks breaking down. German media are saying that Dortmund are among the interested teams. I'm sure some other good teams are interested. This kid was playing in the U-19 academy league in the USA less than a year ago, but has had an incredible rise to prominence because of his ability to put the ball in the net. He scores wherever he goes.

I hope he does not sign somewhere where he won't play. I'd like him to stay at Hannover because I think he'd play regularly, but they might not be able to afford to pay the salary he wants.


----------



## John Pedro

OMG

João Pedro just scored a bicycle kick in the injury time to take his side to penalty kicks in Copa do Brasil match against Cruzeiro woow


----------



## xavi4life

Someone needs to delete this thread asap...


----------



## VEGASKING

Too late


----------



## YNWA14

xavi4life said:


> Someone needs to delete this thread asap...



It's okay you already have Joao Pedro on your team, I checked.


----------



## Ajacied

*L' Equipe's best players under 20:*

1) Matthijs de Ligt
2) Jadon Sancho
3) Kai Havertz
4) João Felix
5) Gianluigi Donnarumma 
6) Nicolo Zaniolo 
7) Moise Kean 
8) Vinicius Junior 
9) Declan Rice
10) Ibrahima Konaté

Other (Dutch) notables

17) Justin Kluivert
20) Kik Pierie
49) Donyell Malen

Not sure I agree much, but lists such as these are always good for discussion.


----------



## SJSharks72

I don’t like Donnarumma or Rice that high. Both good players but definitely better players there.


----------



## Live in the Now

Mbappe and Alexander-Arnold must not count because those are two extremely obvious ones.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Live in the Now said:


> Mbappe and Alexander-Arnold must not count because those are two extremely obvious ones.




They're both 20.
The list is *under*-20, 1999+ born.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

They say best u20 in the world but apparently SA isn’t part of it. No players from their leagues that aren’t in Europe


----------



## Live in the Now

Vasilevskiy said:


> They're both 20.
> The list is *under*-20, 1999+ born.




Okay, 1999 makes more sense, I was confused because there were plenty of 20 year olds on there.


----------



## YNWA14

Jonathan David ahead of Alphonso Davies is a head scratcher. I also wouldn't have Donnarumma in the top 5. For me it would be:

Sancho, Havertz, de Ligt, Felix and Vinicius ATM, in no particular order.


----------



## Il Mediano

Surprised Zaniolo was 6th, tbh.

Not that I'm complaining, but still.


----------



## Evilo

Interesting. I bet half of these guys aren't considered top 10 of their generation in 5 years.

I saw that Guendouzi was 11th. He could climb up. 
Lafont is 12th and I'd pick him over Donnarumma down the line. 
Skov Olsen is 18th, he'll climb up fast IMO. 
I also like Leao (23rd) and Kabak (24th) a lot.
Kamara (26th) is an insane talent. 
Saliba is 27th.
Rodrygo is 28th.
Malang Sarr (42nd) is not impressing right now.


----------



## Savi

YNWA14 said:


> Jonathan David ahead of Alphonso Davies is a head scratcher.




Why? Have you seen enough of David to have a good comparison between them?
I'll say this, nobody knew who David was one year ago and as a teenager coming from a Canadian amateur team he was probably Gent's best player this season, impressing both as a striker and a playmaker.


----------



## gary69

Evilo said:


> Interesting. I bet half of these guys aren't considered top 10 of their generation in 5 years.






Ajacied said:


> Not sure I agree much, but lists such as these are always good for discussion.




Yeah, half of the world's best U-20's are playing in the WC final right now.


----------



## YNWA14

Savi said:


> Why? Have you seen enough of David to have a good comparison between them?
> I'll say this, nobody knew who David was one year ago and as a teenager coming from a Canadian amateur team he was probably Gent's best player this season, impressing both as a striker and a playmaker.



I definitely didn't expect him to explode like this but yes, I've seen enough of him. I still don't think he's as good as Davies overall, but you never know; he might be in a better environment to develop right now and his confidence is sky high. One thing I do really like about him is his composure and that may allow him to be more prolific.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I make a yearly list of the best American prospects. I was considering including the older age groups, but as I started making the list, I noticed only a few of the players aren't already professionals and a number of them are already on the National Team, so I decided to make this list players from the years 2001-2004. 

The list is below in the spoiler tags. 



Spoiler



1. Moses Nyeman - DC United - (2003): The biggest talent in the US system, and the most dominant American youth player to emerge since Adu. He’s a CAM/B2B CM who is elite in every aspect of the game other than having below-average height. I’ve not seen all the best 2003 born players in the world, and I usually don’t think the best American prospects can compete for these accolades, but this kid can compete with the best from other countries.

2. Julian Araujo - LA Galaxy - (2001): The biggest defensive talent in the US system. Araujo has incredible talent with speed, passing ability, aerial ability, strength, reading of the game, ball carrying and 1v1 defending, but is a little undersized at 5’10. If he was a few inches taller, he’d be considered among the best players in the world in his age group. He’s being used as a RB at LA Galaxy. I don’t know what position he’ll play, but the tools will play, and the current production against his own age groups is elite, and is elevating him to higher age groups and professional minutes at age 17. 

3. Jonathan Gomez - FC Dallas - (2003): A LB with incredible passing ability to go along with plus athleticism, dribbling, soccer IQ and defensive ability. I rate him as the biggest talent in the FC Dallas academy right now. Being the biggest talent in the FC Dallas academy is important because FC Dallas has the best academy in the USA by far and is undergoing a youth revolution in their first team. There’s a chance he could be in the first team by the end of the season. He’s already starting regularly for the reserves at age 15, and plays well.

4. Elton Chifamba - Columbus Crew - (2003): Very complete CM. I think there are very easy comparisons to make here to Weston McKennie with more ball-carrying, and less aerial ability. He’s shown incredible development in the last year. I saw a lot of talent in his game a year ago, but he was incredibly raw. I thought it would take him 3-4 years for him to reach the level of one of the best players in his age group, but he’s done it very quickly.

5. Evan Rotundo - San Diego Surf - (2004): Extremely talented CAM with a high level of skill, creativity, playmaking, soccer IQ and technique. There might be some questions about his athleticism as he gets to higher levels. I’ve seen him dominate some games, but then there are some games where he blends in. He has the skill-set to be a great player, but I’d like to see more consistent domination in youth games.

6. Taylor Booth - Bayern Munich - (2001): His biggest obstacle is his club situation. He sat out over a year, and recently signed with Bayern. That’s a lot of lost development time. Very complete CM who can play in any of the CM roles. I like him best in a deep-lying playmaker role, but he might be best used as a Box to Box mid. Great passer of the ball, very high football IQ, can score and assist goals, and he’s a lot better defensively and athletically than you might think.

7. Konrad de la Fuente - FC Barcelona - (2001): Quality winger with a good level of skill, creativity, football IQ and speed, although not dynamic ability from wide areas. He struggled to produce in the final third this season for Barcelona, and had a bad U-20 World Cup. I think his floor is pretty high, but a lower ceiling than some players on this list. No huge strengths, no huge weaknesses.

8. Ricardo Pepi - FC Dallas - (2003): Currently the most hyped youth prospect in the United States. He’s scoring at incredible rates for a player his age, which is where the hype comes from. There is nothing elite about his skill-set other than finishing ability, and he plays for the best academy in the country with the best players, so I’m not sure his reputation matches his potential. He’s a target forward with excellent size, underrated speed and an excellent work-ethic. He’s able to finish with his head or feet, and has above average technical ability. He’s a little reliant on service in the box, but I think he’s improving his offensive impact outside of the box.

9. Brandan Craig - Philadelphia Union - (2004): This is one of those players where his position is unsettled, but the tools will play. Good size and athleticism, excellent passer with good defensive ability, and he’s good at taking set pieces. I think he will end up a CDM, but he’s also been used before as a CB, RB and B2B mid. I think his offensive skill would be wasted on the back line. I’d want him playing in midfield, and if the athleticism continues to develop, B2B mid might be a better position for him than CDM.

10. Ulysses Llanez - VFL Wolfsburg - (2001): Very direct winger with excellent acceleration. He plays on the left, and almost always cuts in on his right, and looks to dribble past defenders. The dribbling, ball control, speed and shooting ability are all plus, but there’s not much in the way of attacking creativity, playmaking or a left foot. He’ll be joining Wolfsburg in the summer transfer window.

11. Alfonso Ocampo-Chavez - Seattle Sounders - (2002): A smaller CF with good speed, excellent finishing ability, good timing of runs and better playmaking than most CF’s. He’s a hard worker off the ball and doesn’t have a bad hold up game, but is only about 5’10. He’s been used at times on the wing due to his speed and playmaking ability, but all of his goals come in the box, a lot of them from good anticipation, so I think you’d want him in the box as much as possible trying to anticipate the play instead of creating it.

12. Joe Scally - New York City FC - (2002): Another one of those players where his eventual position isn’t yet certain, but the tools will play. Excellent athletic tools. He has powerful dribbling, speed and leaping ability, along with good size. He’s been used as a RB early in his career, but I think he’ll likely be a CB. Playing him as a CDM or Box to Box mid are also options, but the passing and ball-control are a little iffy. He can occasionally show some nice skill going forward from RB, so his game isn’t completely about athletic tools. He’s also a very good 1v1 and positional defender with a good read of the game.

13. George Bello - Atlanta United - (2002): Highly touted LB prospect who has lost a lot of time the last season with injuries. A lot of his game is predicated on explosiveness going forward, so there is some worry that his injuries could hurt his explosiveness. He has good combination play, dribbling and delivery to go along with elite explosiveness charging up the left-wing. He’s not a bad defender, but I don’t see him ever being better than average. He struggles with positioning off the ball, and commits a lot of turnovers in bad areas.

14. Leo Torres - San Antonio FC - (2004): He was the best player at the most recent U-15 National Team tournament. Excellent dribbling and creativity off the left-wing. He’s able to beat defenders off the dribble with easte. The athleticism is above-average, the soccer IQ and playmaking are also good. The only problem is that he’s very one-footed.

15. Tanner Tessman - FC Dallas - (2001): Huge upside as a box to box midfielder. Towering CM who moves extremely well for a player his size, plus passing, attacking skill and creativity, and he’s good in the air. The main questions are game to game consistency and defensive play. He’s not bad defensively, but sometimes he’ll lose challenges he shouldn’t be losing. He hasn’t been playing at a high level for as long as most good players his age. I think he’s still a raw player. I’ve seen him improve his game a lot already in the last year.

16. Jacob Akanyirige - San Jose Earthquakes - (2001): This guy is very under the radar. He was born on the last day of 2001, and isn’t talked about as among the best 2001 prospects, but if you grouped him with the 2002’s, I think he’d be talked about a lot more. He’s a CB with elite speed for a player of any position, the ability to carry the ball up the field, and very good defensive reading of the game. He’s dealt with injuries in the last year, and he does need to get stronger, but he has high upside.

17. Dantouma Toure - New York Red Bulls - (2004): Very highly rated CF, but he’s been injured the whole season with an ACL injury. He’s very fast, powerful and a good finisher. He often plays in higher age groups due to being physically overpowering, so it’s sometimes hard to evaluate how good he is in relation to his peers, but I do think there is pretty high upside here.

18. Mauricio Cuevas - LA Galaxy - (2003): An offensive fullback with good attacking skills and above-average defense and athleticism. He’s one of the most consistent performers in his age group, despite not having huge upside. I think he has a very high-floor. He may not be elite at any one category, but he does a lot at an average or better level.

19. Gio Reyna - Borussia Dortmund - (2002): There’s a lot of hype on this kid, partly because his father is one of the best National Team players ever. He’s played many positions, but looks like a winger for now. I like his 1v1 ability off the dribble because he’s big, very athletic, and has speed and good dribbling ability. He’s a capable playmaker, but looks to score most of the time. He could do a better job of integrating his teammates, and I don’t see anything elite about his game, except set piece delivery, but he’s a pretty talented attacker. He’ll be joining Borussia Dortmund for next season.

20. Kobe Hernandez-Foster - LA Galaxy - (2002): Very attack minded full-back. He has excellent passing ability and skill on the ball, along with incredible set-piece ability. He has average athleticism and defensive ability. This part of his game won’t hold him back, but the offensive side of the game is going to have to carry him.

21. Matthew Hoppe - FC Schalke - (2001): Big target striker who has scored goals at a very high rate the last few years. I see some similarities to how Josh Sargent plays. He’s deceptive in his ability to get away from defenders. He reads their movements very well, and knows where to be in the box. I also like his hold up play. He’ll be joining Schalke for next season.

22. Daniel Leyva - Seattle Sounders - (2003): He’s shown huge improvements this season, and recently got his first team debut. He’s capable of playing all the CM positions. His main strengths are his passing ability and soccer IQ in CM. He has good size and is better defensively than you’d think. He also has above-average skill. The main concern with his game is that he looks very unathletic in his movements, although he doesn’t yet play very unathletic, so the main question surrounding his game will be his athleticism. If the athleticism plays, he has good upside and a high floor.

23. Sam Sarver - Columbus Crew - (2003): His game is predicated on beating the defense in behind with his pace. He does so at least a few times per game because he’s the fastest player on the field. He also is very clinical in the final third, despite not having incredible playmaking or shooting skills. The rest of his game is very average, but it’s good enough that it doesn’t take away from his ability to run in behind the defense. He’s been used as a CF, but he doesn’t have much of a hold up game, and is better suited to play as a winger.

24. Tayvon Gray - New York City FC - (2002): Low ceiling, high floor CB. Very good mobility, good defensively with average passing ability. A little weak aerially for a CB, but not terribly. He also has the versatility to play as a RB or CDM, but probably will play the CB position in the professional game.

25. Tyler Freeman - Sporting Kansas City - (2003): Almost the same exact game as Reyna. They played in a recent tournament for the USA and were on the field at the same time. Not only do they play similar, but they look similar, so it was very hard to tell the two players apart. The main difference between the two players is that Freeman is a little more creative, while Reyna has a little better passing vision.

26. Casey Walls - San Jose Earthquakes - (2003): Ball playing CB who finds creative passing options. I like how he attempts to build from the back. There are some errors, and he’s not helped by having average at best pace, but he has good ideas on the ball. Good aerially and usually does a good job positionally, but he can be caught out for pace by fast attackers. He’s not terribly slow, but good athletes will beat him 1v1.

27. Marcelo Palomino - FC Porto - (2001): This guy is a very creative CAM. He’s not that athletic, but he has a very high soccer IQ and excellent ball skills. He’s able to beat defenders 1v1 without pace, which comes mostly down to his soccer IQ and ball skills. He’s a good playmaker, as well. He’ll be joining FC Porto in the Summer transfer window.

28. Josh Atencio - Seattle Sounders - (2002): Big defensive midfielder with a very good passing range, good composure on the ball, and good tackling skills. He’s a little slow, so he’s going to need to learn to position himself better, but I think he will learn that part of the game eventually. He’s been tried as a CB, but I don’t think he has defender instincts. I think he’s better in midfield.

29. Alec Diaz - Seattle Sounders - (2001): Very fast CF who has a knack for scoring goals. He’s able to score in a variety of ways, and has a decent level of skill in his game. His club situation is slightly worrying as he’s behind his club teammate Ocampo-Chavez in the pecking order at Seattle, so I could see him sign in Europe instead of with Seattle. I also think there might be some positional versatility to play as a winger or secondary striker.

30. Antonio Leone - Los Angeles FC - (2004): He shows a good skill-set from the CB position. He has good passing and size, along with good reading of the game defensively, and average pace, although it’s not far off above-average and not a weakness in his game. I’ve seen some very inconsistent performances, so I’d like to see him show some better consistency in his game. He has a high ceiling, but obviously a low floor because he’s a 2004, and all of those kids aren’t proven enough.

Keepers:

I find that good goalkeepers usually emerge later than these age groups, so I’ll list the one standout, and then some names to watch.

Damian Las - Chicago Fire - (2002): Incredible reflexes and command of his penalty box. He’s capable of keeping his team in a game with incredible saves, and makes very few errors. He can be too aggressive off his line, and only has average size, but is a high-end athlete who is the most consistent performer in his age group at any position.

2001: David Ochoa (Real Salt Lake), Kris Shakes (Philadelphia Union), Colin Travasos (Atlanta United)
2002: Chituru Odunze (Vancouver Whitecaps), Aaron Cervantes (Orange County SC), Seth Wilson (FC Dallas), Max Trejo (Sporting Kansas City)
2003: Eliot Jones (New England Revolution), Gavin Krenecki (Sporting Kansas City)
2004: Gabe Slonina (Chicago Fire)


----------



## YNWA14

The next Messi: Luka Romero.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

YNWA14 said:


> The next Messi: Luka Romero.




Way more likely to be the next Correa/Juan carlos or Cocheney. Certainly has Messi's hair though. lol


----------



## Jussi

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Way more likely to be the next Correa/Juan carlos or Cocheney. Certainly has Messi's hair though. lol




And spends as much time on the grass...

On topic, anyone else been "offered" video/stories about that 12 year old 175 cm tall African kid playing for Sevilla's U-12 team?


----------



## Juni

phisherman said:


> You're completely wrong. Arsenal don't develop talent. If Saka leaves for Dortmund they would be the ones that developed him because Arsenal's youth sucks.




This is wrong on about a billion levels and I'm not sure why I'm giving it the honour of a response.


----------



## Evilo

Juni said:


> This is wrong on about a billion levels and I'm not sure why I'm giving it the honour of a response.



I think it's supposed to be sarcastic.


----------



## phisherman

It's totally meant to be sarcastic.



Juni said:


> This is wrong on about a billion levels and I'm not sure why I'm giving it the honour of a response.




However you're giving me a lot of hope with your statement as I'm reading it as Arsenal have some really high potential youth players. Am I right?


----------



## Juni

Apologies for missing the sarcasm. Yes, Arsenal have a bunch of really promising players.


----------



## Evilo

Hannibal Mejbri's family claims he's out of contract with Monaco.
If he indeed is free, this one a MAJOR coup to be made for a top team.
Possibly the best 2003 player in the world. At the very least one of the top as of now.


----------



## Juni

Man Utd are being heavily linked.


----------



## Ajacied

Ajacied said:


> Not a chance. Veltman, Mazraoui and Kristenssen are Ajax' RB's right now and neither look to be leaving. If anything, Ajax will upgrade on Kristenssen and not from within. Dest is still too raw; offensively very gifted, great pace and technique, but defensively still very vulnerable. He might make his debut next season when injuries appear and perhaps make some minutes in a cup game, but he should focus on Ajax II next season as well.
> 
> *Will be interesting to see if he gets invited to training camp this summer.* It usually means he'll get minutes somewhere that season. He's worked his way up from the U19 to Ajax II and is now the starting RB, stealing Navaro Bakboord's spot, so that's a nice indication that things are going well for him.
> 
> If things still don't look promising after next season, I'm sure he will be looked at to gain experience somewhere else, but I expect him to be with Ajax I in 2020/2021.




... he made the roster for the mini camp. I think Ten Hag wants to see what he got and if he's an upgrade on Kristenssen. Doubt he'll be selected for the real camp a few weeks from now, but he'll get his chances soon. I wasn't impressed with his outings during the WC U20, but he brings something neither Kristenssen or Veltman brings, so who knows.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

This is a sad story on many fronts. One of Mexico’s best up and coming players is in jail without bail for killing a married couple in a car accident the day after they got married. Maleck was supposedly under the influence of alcohol.


----------



## AB13

As an Arsenal fan watching Guendouzi just frustrates me. Matteo Guendouzi was absolutely horrendous for us all season, but just got hyped because he is young. Guendouzi is not good enough to play for the first team. He can’t play a 1 or 2 touch pass, always takes too many touches which slows all our attacks down, loses every duel, runs around the pitch looking lost and never creates chances. He is supposed to cover for defense and control the tempo but he is completely unable to do both. He can not handle the physicality of the Premier League either at the moment, he would either need to develop his footballing brain and learn to find quick passes or gain 15 kilograms of pure muscle to stop getting physically abused on the pitch. For someone who rarely starts attacks and is poor defensively his statistics of 0 goals, 0 assists and 2 chances created in the Premier League are a joke. Our win percentage is 44% lower when Guendouzi is playing. It is a night and day difference. Our record with out him is on par with City and Liverpool, but our record with him is on par with West Ham. I would not mind selling him for the right price, I just don't see any potential in him, he is below average at basically everything, and people think he is good because he runs around a lot, but he just constantly runs out of position without a purpose. Being young does not mean you have potential.


----------



## Evilo

That's a pretty bad take man. Like a REAL, REAL bad take.


----------



## ecemleafs

Karamoko Dembele is with the Celtic first team in the Austrian summer camp.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

AB13 said:


> Our record with out him is on par with City and Liverpool




I've seen a lot of ridiculous claims on this board, but this one takes the cake.


----------



## AB13

Creed Bratton said:


> I've seen a lot of ridiculous claims on this board, but this one takes the cake.




Looking at win percentage it is 79% without Guendouzi. Citys win percentage was 84% this season and Liverpools 80%. It is not far off at all. I am not saying we would be close if we never played Guendouzi but it is an interesting stat. It is a fact not an opinion that our record is similar to what City and Liverpool have without Guendouzi.


----------



## AB13

Evilo said:


> That's a pretty bad take man. Like a REAL, REAL bad take.




Explain how?


----------



## Evilo

AB13 said:


> Explain how?



Well, frankly, it doesn't take much of an expert to see Guendouzi's talent. Guy is a midfield breathing room. He keeps the ball under pressure, makes smart passes to get out of midfield, positions himself extremely well between the lines, creates out of nothing, etc...

As for your %, imagine for one second someone using 5 games (over 38 league games) to make a winning % sample. That's really lame.


----------



## PansCyans

Did anyone post this?

If someone did, I missed it. Apologies if it has been posted. It’s from a couple weeks back. L’Equipe top 50 players under 20 yrs old. 

The top 50 U20 players in world football have been revealed


----------



## AB13

Evilo said:


> Well, frankly, it doesn't take much of an expert to see Guendouzi's talent. Guy is a midfield breathing room. He keeps the ball under pressure, makes smart passes to get out of midfield, positions himself extremely well between the lines, creates out of nothing, etc...
> 
> As for your %, imagine for one second someone using 5 games (over 38 league games) to make a winning % sample. That's really lame.




None of that is even remotely true at all. He very rarely makes a smart pass and never ever sees a pass that no one else does. He can’t do it on few touches either, so all it does when he completes a pass after the usual 10 touches on the ball is lead to the attacks slowing down and losing pace whenever he ferns it. His positioning sense is literally the worst I have ever seen by a professional footballer, I really question if you have ever watched him. He always leaves the defence exposed by being out of position which lead to so many goals against this season, look at the first goal city scored at the Emirates, the buildup which lead to the penalty against Palace or 2 of the goals we conceded at Stamford Bridge for example. All of them would have been avoided if Guendouzi was not out of position. He has the least chances created per 90 in the whole team so he really is not creative.

As for the win percentage, I looked at games he has and has not started, therefore it was 13 games, not 5.


----------



## Evilo

Yeah, indeed, nothing true about what you wrote.
Never makes a smart pass?  His positionning is the worst by a pro footballer? Oh my...
I like that you questionned me ever seeing him. I was watching him and hyping him before you even knew his name.
Yes, he is creative. Given his position, that doesn't necessarily translate into assists or even shots, but that's beyond obvious.

Look, there really is nothing to debate here. Your post is absolutely horrible in terms of football evaluation, but you're convinced of the contrary. You're even ready to use lame stats samples to prove it. Go ahead, think what you want.
I don't think there's a single Arsenal fan here who thinks Guendouzi is trash except you.

He's certainly not perfect and has tons to learn. That's because he's 18 and hardly a finished product. But his level is absolutely amazing for his age, and more than anything, he demonstrates each games the qualities you say he doesn't have.

That'd be like someone here saying Messi can't score. At some point, there's nothing to argue.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

koyvoo said:


> Did anyone post this?
> 
> If someone did, I missed it. Apologies if it has been posted. It’s from a couple weeks back. L’Equipe top 50 players under 20 yrs old.
> 
> The top 50 U20 players in world football have been revealed



Tonali should be higher.


----------



## AB13

koyvoo said:


> Did anyone post this?
> 
> If someone did, I missed it. Apologies if it has been posted. It’s from a couple weeks back. L’Equipe top 50 players under 20 yrs old.
> 
> The top 50 U20 players in world football have been revealed




Reiss Nelson, Alexander Isak, Willam Saliba, Yari Verschueren and Sandro Tonali should be a lot higher, Gianluigi Donnarumma, Matteo Guendouzi, Evan Ndicka, Boubacar Kamara and Gelson Fernandes should be lower.


----------



## AB13

Evilo said:


> Yeah, indeed, nothing true about what you wrote.
> Never makes a smart pass?  His positionning is the worst by a pro footballer? Oh my...
> I like that you questionned me ever seeing him. I was watching him and hyping him before you even knew his name.
> Yes, he is creative. Given his position, that doesn't necessarily translate into assists or even shots, but that's beyond obvious.
> 
> Look, there really is nothing to debate here. Your post is absolutely horrible in terms of football evaluation, but you're convinced of the contrary. You're even ready to use lame stats samples to prove it. Go ahead, think what you want.
> I don't think there's a single Arsenal fan here who thinks Guendouzi is trash except you.
> 
> He's certainly not perfect and has tons to learn. That's because he's 18 and hardly a finished product. But his level is absolutely amazing for his age, and more than anything, he demonstrates each games the qualities you say he doesn't have.
> 
> That'd be like someone here saying Messi can't score. At some point, there's nothing to argue.



He is 20 not 18, first of all.

He is not creative, not in the middle of the park either where the stats can't prove it. He can't find a pass at all in tight spaces, he is absolutely horrible at it, especially at one touch. Just look at the tons of comments on Arsenal posts about Guendouzi on social media and you will find that many Arsenal fans are trying there hardest to push the club into not playing Guendouzi.

The worst of all is that he sucks at what a player in his role is supposed to be good at. We lose so many counter attacking opportunities and rarely play fluid football with him on the pitch because he holds on to the ball for way too long every single time, which could indicate that he struggles to see any passing opportunities. His defensive play is a joke, he is extremely weak, and his positioning is horrible, I think you are the only one who doesn't think so. His positioning is constantly being ridiculed.


----------



## Evilo

AB13 said:


> Reiss Nelson, Alexander Isak, Willam Saliba, Yari Verschueren and Sandro Tonali should be a lot higher, Gianluigi Donnarumma, Matteo Guendouzi, Evan Ndicka, *Boubacar Kamara* and Gelson Fernandes should be lower.



Please explain your evaluation of Kamara and why he should be lower.
What are his strengths, weaknesses, etc.
Please share.


----------



## Evilo

AB13 said:


> He is 20 not 18, first of all.
> 
> He is not creative, not in the middle of the park either where the stats can't prove it. He can't find a pass at all in tight spaces, he is absolutely horrible at it, especially at one touch. Just look at the tons of comments on Arsenal posts about Guendouzi on social media and you will find that many Arsenal fans are trying there hardest to push the club into not playing Guendouzi.
> 
> The worst of all is that he sucks at what a player in his role is supposed to be good at. We lose so many counter attacking opportunities and rarely play fluid football with him on the pitch because he holds on to the ball for way too long every single time, which could indicate that he struggles to see any passing opportunities. His defensive play is a joke, he is extremely weak, and his positioning is horrible, I think you are the only one who doesn't think so. His positioning is constantly being ridiculed.



By blind people, I have no doubt.
For everyone else, Guendouzi's talents are obvious.


----------



## AB13

Evilo said:


> Please explain your evaluation of Kamara and why he should be lower.
> What are his strengths, weaknesses, etc.
> Please share.




Kamara is a solid centre back who is very calm and good on the ball, and has a decent reading of the game without the ball, and usually makes a few interceptions. His positioning sense is good, especially when he plays as a centre back. He is not forced into making touch challenges and forced into running duels because he is out of position too often. But when he is challenged one on one, I feel Kamara is relatively easy to beat for attackers, his 1 on 1 defending against quick attackers is rather underwhelming to me. He runs around a lot, but I feel Kamara is very physically weak and rather slow, although those can be compensated for at times by good positioning. There are a lot of players lower down on the list than Kamara who I feel are much more deserving of a higher spot, so that is the main reason I feel Kamara should be lower. It is more of a testament to them than a knock on Kamara, who I feel is ranked unfairly high.


----------



## AB13

Evilo said:


> By blind people, I have no doubt.
> For everyone else, Guendouzi's talents are obvious.




What talents? There is nothing, not a single detail of the game, he can do at Premier League level. He was the worst player on the pitch most games this season, and I feel the same can be said for his time in Ligue 2.


----------



## Savi

AB13 said:


> Reiss Nelson, Alexander Isak, Willam Saliba, *Yari Verschueren* and Sandro Tonali should be a lot higher, Gianluigi Donnarumma, Matteo Guendouzi, Evan Ndicka, Boubacar Kamara and Gelson Fernandes should be lower.




It's Verschaeren, and no he shouldn't


----------



## AB13

Everyone remember my comment in a few years when Guendouzi will be considered the most overhyped player in history and an absolute super flop. Come back to this and admit you where wrong, because I am completely sure with 100% certainty that Guendouzi will never be close to world class. I am an Arsenal fan so its not like I hope to be right either, but I really feel like all of you are talking about a player you have never watched and only heard our fans overhype like we did with the useless Chuba Akpom, David Bentley and Nicklas Bendtner.

Please remember this and call me a footballing genius when I am right.


----------



## AB13

Savi said:


> It's Verschaeren, and no he shouldn't



Yes he should, he is one of the more dominant players I have seen at that age in a long time. His technique and creativity are off the charts.


----------



## Evilo

AB13 said:


> Kamara is a solid centre back who is very calm and good on the ball, and has a decent reading of the game without the ball, and usually makes a few interceptions. His positioning sense is good, especially when he plays as a centre back. He is not forced into making touch challenges and forced into running duels because he is out of position too often. But when he is challenged one on one, I feel Kamara is relatively easy to beat for attackers, his 1 on 1 defending against quick attackers is rather underwhelming to me. He runs around a lot, but I feel Kamara is very physically weak and rather slow, although those can be compensated for at times by good positioning. There are a lot of players lower down on the list than Kamara who I feel are much more deserving of a higher spot, so that is the main reason I feel Kamara should be lower. It is more of a testament to them than a knock on Kamara, who I feel is ranked unfairly high.



OK. Makes sense.
You just have never seen the guy play.
Got you.


----------



## Evilo

AB13 said:


> What talents? There is nothing, not a single detail of the game, he can do at Premier League level. He was the worst player on the pitch most games this season, and I feel the same can be said for his time in Ligue 2.




Because you watched him in L2 too? Man you're good.


----------



## AB13

Evilo said:


> OK. Makes sense.
> You just have never seen the guy play.
> Got you.




Because I don't overhype him like you do with every French player? My brother is a Marsellie fan I watched basically every game this season. How was that I said wrong? Just because I am not blinded by age and stupid enough to praise every single thing a youngster does? Just because I see him make mistakes that you don't? Explain why without using " you haven't watched him play" or " he is young and not the finished product" as an argument again. I never said he doesn't have huge potential, I rate him very highly, but there are a lot of better players in a similar age and position.


----------



## AB13

Evilo said:


> Because you watched him in L2 too? Man you're good.



Yes I watched a few games, mostly replays of games when we signed him


----------



## Evilo

Please stop. You can't even spell Marseille.
The only thing you got right is that Kamara's main weakness is a relative lack of speed. Everything else he is world class bound.
He's arguably the best CB prospect in the world.

How do I know you haven't seen him play? Because he has an amazing quality you didn't even list. His main strength isn't in your post. Yet when you watch him 5 minutes it's beyond obvious.

And I don't overhype every french player. You can check what I said about many players. For instance, I think Pavard sucks and Lucas Hernandez is just above average.
Saliba has a lot of potential, but NOBODY that follows L1 football would rate him above Kamara except a few St Etienne fans. And yet I like him, he's extremely solid.


----------



## AB13

Evilo said:


> Please stop. You can't even spell Marseille.
> The only thing you got right is that Kamara's main weakness is a relative lack of speed. Everything else he is world class bound.
> He's arguably the best CB prospect in the world.
> 
> How do I know you haven't seen him play? Because he has an amazing quality you didn't even list. His main strength isn't in your post. Yet when you watch him 5 minutes it's beyond obvious.
> 
> And I don't overhype every french player. You can check what I said about many players. For instance, I think Pavard sucks and Lucas Hernandez is just above average.
> Saliba has a lot of potential, but NOBODY that follows L1 football would rate him above Kamara except a few St Etienne fans. And yet I like him, he's extremely solid.




He is very very extemely insanely far away from even being in the top 10 best centre back prospects in the world, please stop.


----------



## Evilo

Insane indeed.

So, what's his main quality that few players have?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Can all of you stop this bickering in every thread or take it to PM’s?


----------



## PattyLafontaine

Moar bickering! Who cares being great prospect means sweet FA if the guy never develops.


----------



## Ajacied

Ajax on the verge of losing yet another highly touted talent; Hossein Zamani (LW/RW). He's being targeted most notably by City and United. Ajax is usually raided of it's youth every year, but these past few seasons it's insane.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Are there any Swiss fans that know anything about Bradley Fink? He signed today for Dortmund. He's a 16 year old who is going straight into our U-19's, despite being U-17 eligible.


----------



## Ajacied

United also got Björn Hardley, LB from NAC Breda, 16 years old. Intruiging prospect. Can play multiple positions and already has a mature frame. Athletic, strong with the ball and sometimes even adventurous.


----------



## Ajacied

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> @Ajacied, I've definitely asked you this before, but what do you think about Dest's development? Could he play next season in the first team at Ajax or is it more likely he'll have to move to a smaller Eredivisie club?






Ajacied said:


> Not a chance. Veltman, Mazraoui and Kristenssen are Ajax' RB's right now and neither look to be leaving. If anything, Ajax will upgrade on Kristenssen and not from within. Dest is still too raw; offensively very gifted, great pace and technique, but defensively still very vulnerable. He might make his debut next season when injuries appear and perhaps make some minutes in a cup game, but he should focus on Ajax II next season as well.
> 
> *Will be interesting to see if he gets invited to training camp this summer.* It usually means he'll get minutes somewhere that season. He's worked his way up from the U19 to Ajax II and is now the starting RB, stealing Navaro Bakboord's spot, so that's a nice indication that things are going well for him.
> 
> If things still don't look promising after next season, I'm sure he will be looked at to gain experience somewhere else, but I expect him to be with Ajax I in 2020/2021.






Ajacied said:


> ... he made the roster for the mini camp. I think Ten Hag wants to see what he got and if he's an upgrade on Kristenssen. Doubt he'll be selected for the real camp a few weeks from now, but he'll get his chances soon. I wasn't impressed with his outings during the WC U20, but he brings something neither Kristenssen or Veltman brings, so who knows.




@Pavel Buchnevich: Dest has been impressive and is currently on the plane to the real training camp in Austria. With rumors on Veltman possibly leaving for the Premier League, Dest might be Mazraoui's backup and see some real playing time this season. I can't imagine Ajax having much faith in Kristenssen.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

New five year contract at Chelsea for Mason Mount? You best believe I love that shit.


----------



## YNWA14

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> New five year contract at Chelsea for Mason Mount? You best believe I love that ****.



Me too.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

YNWA14 said:


> Me too.




Can't tell if this is you saying this earnestly as an observer or sarcastically as a rival fan.


----------



## YNWA14

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Can't tell if this is you saying this earnestly as an observer or sarcastically as a rival fan.



A little bit of A and a little bit of B? He did well in the Eredivisie and it's usually nice to see those players succeed elsewhere but I don't think he's good enough for a top club so if Chelsea under Lampard will be using those kind of players I think they'll be pretty average. Not sure if that makes sense.


----------



## Evilo

I like him and think he's going to be much better than average.


----------



## Ajacied

YNWA14 said:


> A little bit of A and a little bit of B? He did well in the Eredivisie and it's usually nice to see those players succeed elsewhere but I don't think he's good enough for a top club so if Chelsea under Lampard will be using those kind of players I think they'll be pretty average. Not sure if that makes sense.




Mount was a sensation in the Eredivisie. He did a lot better than "well"..


----------



## Vancouver Canucks

Kang-In Lee requested a trade from FC Valencia. Ajax being the probable destination for him.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Requests trade lol?


----------



## Cassano




----------



## Cassano

American prospect Balogun scored a hat trick within 6 minutes vs Barnet:



Same age as media darling Mason Greenwood and comparable scoring record at all levels too...


----------



## Jussi

He looks to be playing for England. 4 games for England U-17, 4 games for US U-18, then 10 games for England U-18.


----------



## Cassano

Jussi said:


> He looks to be playing for England. 4 games for England U-17, 4 games for US U-18, then 10 games for England U-18.



Well USMNT will always have a spot available for him if he doesn't get called up to England NT. But it's fair, he learned his trade in England and should represent them.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

He'll play for England, if he's good enough. But we seem to be 2nd in the recruiting battle. Nigeria is also an option, but he's attended a US youth camp in the past year.

Is Yunus Musah good? He's also an American player in the Arsenal academy.


----------



## Cassano

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> He'll play for England, if he's good enough. But we seem to be 2nd in the recruiting battle. Nigeria is also an option, but he's attended a US youth camp in the past year.
> 
> Is Yunus Musah good? He's also an American player in the Arsenal academy.



He is, Juve tried to get him last year and failed. I heard Valencia is trying to sign him this season. 

Yunus represented England at the U17 Euros BTW.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Cassano said:


> American prospect Balogun scored a hat trick within 6 minutes vs Barnet:
> 
> 
> 
> Same age as media darling Mason Greenwood and comparable scoring record at all levels too...





Still think Greenwood is the better prospect, but I agree that guys like Balogun and Parrott deserve more attention.


----------



## Venkman

Musah was called up for the U17 Euros but didn't play. Rumoured to be registration issues. Same with Sarmiento. Musah played regularly for the U17s until the March qualifiers.


----------



## AB13

Creed Bratton said:


> Still think Greenwood is the better prospect, but I agree that guys like Balogun and Parrott deserve more attention.




Bukayo Saka and probably Gabriel Martinelli too are clearly ahead of all in the same age. Parrot is nowhere near any of the top prospects from any other top 6 side.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Too early to say with Martinelli IMO. But Arsenal have the best academy crop in England right now I'd say.

Parrott is absolutely among the top prospects though.


----------



## phisherman

Arsenal vs Barnet highlights. Shows all 3 Balogun goals.


----------



## Cassano




----------



## Venkman

Highly rated '03 Jude Bellingham started for Birmingham in the EFL Cup tonight aged 16 and 38 days. Same birth year as Harvey Elliot, Louie Barry (signed for Barca) and Karamoko Dembele.


----------



## robertmac43

Venkman said:


> Highly rated '03 Jude Bellingham started for Birmingham in the EFL Cup tonight aged 16 and 38 days.




The only bright spot for Birmingham in the extremely early goings of this season.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Fulham signs 17 year old American goalie Damian Las. Las is the best young American keeper I’ve seen play at his age. Las had interest from some bigger teams in Europe, but Fulham had the best offer and some teams were unsure about his height. He’s only about 6’1. I think Fulham was smart to get him under contract so soon. He’ll likely generate a lot of interest at the U17 World Cup as the best player in the American team. 

Absolute world class reflexes. He can steal games because of it. There’s no weakness in his game either, unless you consider his height a problem. Keepers are so unpredictable before they reach professional football, so I won’t predict this guy will turn into a world class keeper, but if he ends up doing so, the talent was clear.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

I don't know if his name has been brought up but Eduardo Camavinga is creating some huge waves in France. He is 16 years old playing for Rennes and he is already establishing himself as a key player for his team. He is IMO the next big star coming out of Ligue 1. His poise and control with the ball is incredible.


----------



## AB13

Folarin Balogun scored a hattrick once again as the Arsenal U23s won 3-1 in the first game of the season. He is born in 2001 and scoring in historic numbers for his age.


----------



## Cassano

AB13 said:


> Folarin Balogun scored a hattrick once again as the Arsenal U23s won 3-1 in the first game of the season. He is born in 2001 and scoring in historic numbers for his age.



2 of those pens and 1 off a missed pen to be fair.


----------



## phisherman

Cassano said:


> 2 of those pens and 1 off a missed pen to be fair.




He won two of those pens himself.


----------



## Pensionsraddare

AB13 said:


> Folarin Balogun scored a hattrick once again as the Arsenal U23s won 3-1 in the first game of the season. He is born in 2001 and scoring in historic numbers for his age.




With Nketiah at Leeds i'll be very disappointed if he's not being given a chance in the League Cup this season. Think Freddie is going to make sure of that though.


----------



## Maverick41

Youssoufa Moukoko had a good start to his season with the U19 scoring 6 goals in his first game as Dortmund beat Wuppertal 9-2.


----------



## YNWA14

Maverick41 said:


> Youssoufa Moukoko had a good start to his season with the U19 scoring 6 goals in his first game as Dortmund beat Wuppertal 9-2.



Ridiculous.

Crazy thing being he isn't even allowed to go pro for another 2 years (21/22 season). His youth goal scoring records are going to be insane.


----------



## phisherman

Pensionsraddare said:


> With Nketiah at Leeds i'll be very disappointed if he's not being given a chance in the League Cup this season. Think Freddie is going to make sure of that though.




Speaking of Nketiah he just scored for Leeds on his debut.

His goal.


----------



## Maverick41

YNWA14 said:


> Ridiculous.
> 
> Crazy thing being he isn't even allowed to go pro for another 2 years (21/22 season). His youth goal scoring records are going to be insane.




Here is a link to video of all the goals in all the games of week 1 in the U19-Bundesliga.
The Dortmund game starts at 8:17.

1. Spieltag A-Junioren-Bundesliga: Alle Spiele, alle Tore


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Maverick41 said:


> Youssoufa Moukoko had a good start to his season with the U19 scoring 6 goals in his first game as Dortmund beat Wuppertal 9-2.




How old is this kid again?


----------



## YNWA14

Vasilevskiy said:


> How old is this kid again?



14


----------



## Maverick41

Vasilevskiy said:


> How old is this kid again?




14 years old


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Sounds like a phenom. I'm a believer of letting young kids play ASAP if they're ready to, would he be able to play a pro game let's say, next year?


----------



## YNWA14

Vasilevskiy said:


> Sounds like a phenom. I'm a believer of letting young kids play ASAP if they're ready to, would he be able to play a pro game let's say, next year?





YNWA14 said:


> Ridiculous.
> 
> Crazy thing being he isn't even allowed to go pro for another 2 years (21/22 season). His youth goal scoring records are going to be insane.



He's not allowed until the season he'd turn 17.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Spurs scouting 17 year old American Charlie Kelman playing for Southend in League One

Photo: Pleat spotted scouting for Spurs, reportedly wants Charlie Kelman

...anyone seen this kid play?


----------



## Eye of Ra

i dont think that defender have much of a future.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

YNWA14 said:


> He's not allowed until the season he'd turn 17.




I think an exception will be made. One was made for Nuri Sahin. 

He turns 15 in November. I don't suspect he'll be with the first team any earlier than next preseason. There's a backlog of youth players that deserve a chance with the first team that aren't getting it because of our improved squad depth. 

I think what's most likely is that the exception is made for Moukoko, and he joins the first team for the 2021 Winter Training Camp. That'll allow him to play 1 and a half seasons in the U-19's.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Troy Parrott selected for Ireland's 40-man provisional squad for the next round of World Cup qualifiers.


----------



## AB13

Emile Smith-Rowe just returned from injury, and has played the last couple of games. Managed to play 62 minutes today and got back on the scoresheet, as the Arsenal U23s beat Brighton.


----------



## Cassano

AB13 said:


> Emile Smith-Rowe just returned from injury, and has played the last couple of games. Managed to play 62 minutes today and got back on the scoresheet, as the Arsenal U23s beat Brighton.



Unless he's getting consistent game time in Europa, we should loan him out IMO.

No reason why he shouldn't as he looked amazing in it last season.


----------



## AB13

Cassano said:


> Unless he's getting consistent game time in Europa, we should loan him out IMO.
> 
> No reason why he shouldn't as he looked amazing in it last season.




Hopefully he starts every Cup and Europa League game this fall. It will be hard for him to get regular first team football every week regardless, so loaning him out to a team that plays him every week could be beneficial, because he is clearly too good to just develop in the U23s. He would probably start in plenty of Bundesliga teams, for example.


----------



## Ajacied

Watched bits of the Otten Cup the past few days; a prestigious U19 tournament. Anderlecht, Inter Milan, Barcelona, PSV were among those who participated. PSV lost the final to Inter on penalties. A few PSV talents stood out, but their most notable one was Noni Madueke, English youth player. I think he has great odds of reaching the men's squad, likely replacing Bergwijn/Malen/Bruma once they move abroad. Strong, fast and has good control over the ball. Not sure how he's viewed in England, but he's quality.


----------



## Venkman

As far as I know he's one of the best English 02's. Sounds mature for a 17 year old English kid. Can play as a 10 or wide.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Madueke left Spurs on a free last summer. Was highly rated.


----------



## Ajacied

Yeah I've read more about him. Wise kid. Really wanted to go to the Netherlands since young players get a fair shot over here. He declined multiple offers from Premier League sides, including United.


----------



## YNWA14

I spoke on Madueke during the u17 Euro earlier this year. He was the only one creating anything for England and without him they looked lost. Including a few other very hyped prospects.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Camavinga bossing the midfield for Rennes versus PSG. What a talent!

His stock is raising by the day. He is so composed for a 16 years old.


----------



## robertmac43

JeffreyLFC said:


> Camavinga bossing the midfield for Rennes versus PSG. What a talent!
> 
> His stock is raising by the day. He is so composed for a 16 years old.



98% pass accuracy on the day! Insanity.


----------



## robertmac43

Uncapped Ferdi Kadioglu scored today for Fenerbache at 19. He played his youth days for the Dutch teams but has Canadian ties as well and is rumored to be capped by the Canadians at some point.


----------



## Ajacied

robertmac43 said:


> Uncapped Ferdi Kadioglu scored today for Fenerbache at 19. He played his youth days for the Dutch teams but has Canadian ties as well and is rumored to be capped by the Canadians at some point.




He isn't Oranje material, but I reckon he'd chose Turkey.


----------



## robertmac43

Ajacied said:


> He isn't Oranje material, but I reckon he'd chose Turkey.




What are his ties to Turkey? My guess is parents?


----------



## Ajacied

robertmac43 said:


> What are his ties to Turkey? My guess is parents?




His dad is. He also plays in Turkey.


----------



## robertmac43

Ajacied said:


> His dad is. He also plays in Turkey.




He very my well choose that route. Herdman his him on the Canada roster and is going to try to sell him on the young core that will be in their mid 20's come World Cup Qualification for 26. For once Canada actually has some bargaining power with these kids which is nice.


----------



## AB13

Eddie Nketiah with the winning goal on his Leeds home debut, just 4 minutes after coming on. Impressing on loan from the mighty Arsenal.


----------



## phisherman

AB13 said:


> Eddie Nketiah with the winning goal on his Leeds home debut, just 4 minutes after coming on. Impressing on loan from the mighty Arsenal.


----------



## Ajacied

robertmac43 said:


> He very my well choose that route. Herdman his him on the Canada roster and is going to try to sell him on the young core that will be in their mid 20's come World Cup Qualification for 26. For once Canada actually has some bargaining power with these kids which is nice.




Ferdi was born and learned his football here, but if he wants to have an international career he'll be wise to chose Turkey or Canada. I just don't like how all these countries are trying to convince youth players with the slightest origin to come and play for them. The Moroccan football federation already called up 17 year old Mohammed Ihattaren, just so they have him locked up already.


----------



## Ajacied

Here’s my annual Eredivisie/the Netherlands top prospect list. Updated from last season.


* Rating**Description **Examples**100*Generational talent. These players only pop up once every few years._Messi, Cruijff, Beckenbauer_*90*Superstar. Has the potential to be an elite player while playing for the elite teams out there._Benzema, Rakitic, De Gea_*80*Good talent. Can be a star player in one of the top leagues, but just comes up short for the elite teams._Arnautovic, Cillessen, Shaqiri._*70*Decent talent. Can play for the lower sides in the top leagues._Erik Pieters, Nathan Dyer, Ben Foster._*60*Average talent, but decent enough for the lower leagues._Renato Tapia, Dany Hoesen, Jeroen Verhoeven._*50*Mediocre talent. Has the potential to play for the lower sides in the lower leagues._Diederik Boer, Anco Janssen, Johan Kappelhof._
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]
* Grade**Description **A*Sure fire bet to reach potential. Player is in an ideal situation to grow. Smart, mature and isn’t to be distracted. Has no major history problems. *B*Very likely to reach his potential. But there are still a few things he needs to work on.*C*Likely to reach upside, but still has a long way to go. Has minor injury concerns or is not in an ideal situation to grow.*D*Unlikely to reach upside. Unlikely to grow and is not in a favorable situation. Could have major injury concerns. Immature. Distracted easily.*E*Impossible to reach upside.
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]*1997 - GRADUATED*
1) Frenkie de Jong CM – 94A – Barcelona/HOL
2) Abdelhak Nouri AM – 90E – Ajax/HOL*
3) Steven Bergwijn W - 84B – PSV/HOL
4) Kasper Dolberg ST – 87D – Ajax/DEN
5) David Neres W - 82B – Ajax/BRA
6) Donny van de Beek AM - 82B – Ajax/HOL
7) Edson Alvarez CB – 84C – Ajax/MEX
8) Arnaut Groeneveld LW – 82C – Bournemouth/HOL
9) Guus Til CM – 75A – Spartak Moscow/HOL
10) Michel Vlap AM – 74A - Anderlecht/HOL
11) Jerdy Schouten DM – 73A - Bologna/HOL
12) Sam Lammers ST – 78C - PSV/HOL
13) Noussair Mazraoui RB – 69B – Ajax/HOL
14) Philippe Sandler CB/WB – 70C – Manchester City/HOL
15) Pablo Rosario DM - 68A - PSV/HOL

_HM: Vaclav Cerny (Utrecht), Alessio da Cruz (Ascoli Calcio),_ _Laros Duarte (PSV), Hidde ter Avest (Udinese), Juninho Bacuna (Huddersfield Town), Matteo Casseira (Ajax), Mohamed El Hankouri (Groningen)._
*
1998 *
1) Calvin Stengs W – 84B – AZ/HOL
2) Lisandro Martinez LB/CB/DM – 84B – Ajax/ARG
3) Timothy-Fosu Mensah D – 84C – Manchester United/HOL
4) Carel Eiting CM – 84D – Ajax/HOL
5) Javairo Dilrosun LW – 82C - Hertha BSC/HOL
6) Teun Koopmeiners DM – 74A – AZ/HOL
7) Ritsu Doan AM - 79C - Groningen/JAP
8) Rick van Drongelen CB – 74B – HSV/HOL
9) Justin Bijlow GK – 72B – Feyenoord/HOL
10) Kaj Sierhuis ST – 74C – Groningen/HOL
11) Dante Rigo CM - 75C - PSV/BEL
12) Ferdi Druijff ST - 74B - AZ/HOL
13) Azor Matusiwa DM – 74A – Groningen/HOL
14) Justin Hoogma CB - 71C - Utrecht/HOL
15) Rodney Kongolo DM – 70C – Heerenveen/HOL

_HM: Jay-Roy Grot (Leeds United), Sherrel Floranus (Heerenveen), Jasper van der Werff (Red Bull Salzburg), Dani de Wit (Ajax), Gianni dos Santos (Sparta), Hassane Bandé (Ajax), Giovanni Troupee (Utrecht), Dennis Johnson (PEC Zwolle), Sherwin Seedorf (Bradford)._
*
1999 *
1) Matthijs de Ligt CB – 96B – Juventus/HOL
2) Donyell Malen W/ST – 87B – PSV/HOL
3) Tahith Chong RW – 85C – Manchester United/HOL
4) Perr Schuurs CB – 84B – Ajax/HOL
5) Justin Kluivert LW – 83C – AS Roma/HOL
6) Cody Gakpo W/AM – 80B – PSV/HOL
7) Armando Obispo CB 82C – PSV/HOL
8) Joel Piroe ST – 83C – PSV/HOL
9) Noa Lang AM – 80C – Ajax/HOL
10) Bobby Adekanye RW – 80D – Lazio/HOL
11) Nick Venema ST - 78B - Utrecht/HOL
12) Owen Wijndal LB – 78B – AZ/HOL
13) Leandro Fernandes DM – 79C – Juventus/HOL
14) Ferdi Kadioglu AM – 74B – Fenerbache/HOL
15) Halil Dervisoglu W/AM – 76C – Brentford/HOL
_
HM: Luis Sinisterra (Feyenoord), Ole Romeny (NEC), Michal Sadilek (PSV), Jeovanni Dianganga (Standaard Luik), Emanuel Boateng (Lazio), Mitchell van Bergen (Heerenveen), Dylan Vente (Feyenoord), Deroy Duarte (Sparta), Jordan Teze (PSV), Nathangelo Markelo (Everton), Godfried Frimpong (Benfica), Anderson Lopéz (AS Monaco), Danilo Pereira (Ajax), Che Nunnely (Willem II), Maxmillliano Romero (PSV), Tyrell Malacia (Feyenoord)._
*
2000 *
1) Juan Familia Castillo LM/LB - 83C – Chelsea/HOL
2) Orkün Kokcü AM - 83C - Feyenoord/HOL (TUR)
3) Sergino Dest LB/LM – 81C – Ajax/HOL (USA)
4) Kik Pierie LB/CB – 80C – Ajax/HOL
5) Nicolas Kühn ST – 83D – Ajax/GER
6) Kjell Scherper GK – 83D – Ajax/HOL
7) Ludovit Reis DM - 80C - Barcelona/HOL
8) Jeremie Frimpomg - 80C - RWB/RM - Manchester City/HOL
9) Victor Jensen AM – 80C - Ajax/DEN
10) Mitchell Bakker LB - 77C – PSG/HOL
11) Xavier Mbuyamba CB - 79C - Barcelona/HOL
12) Zakaria Aboukhal – W/AM – 79C – AZ/HOL
13) Achraf El Bouchataoui AM - 78C – Feyenoord/HOL
14) Lutsharel Geertruida CB – 74C – Feyenoord/HOL
15) Jasper Schendelaar GK – 74C – AZ/HOL
_
HM: Justen Kranthove (Leicester City), Jurgen Ekkelenkamp (Ajax), Peer Koopmeiners (AZ), Lucas Leverland (ADO), Gianni van de Pitte (NAC), Millen Baars (Manchester United), Dominik Kotarski (Ajax), Kees de Boer (Swansea), Elayin Tavsan (Sparta), Sydney van Hooijdonk (NAC)._
*
2001*
1) Joshua Zirkzee ST – 89B – Bayern München/HOL
2) Daishwan Redan ST – 86C – Hertha BSC/HOL
3) Myron Boadu ST – 85C – AZ/HOL
4) Manuel Pherai AM – 84C – Dortmund/HOL
5) Omar Rekik – CB – 82C – Hertha BSC/HOL
6) Sepp van de Berg – CB – 82B – Liverpool/HOL
7) Vicente Besuijen AM – 82C – Roma/HOL
8) Quinten Timber CM – 80C – Ajax/HOL
9) Liam van Gelderen CB – 80C – Ajax/HOL
10) Lassina Traoré ST – 80C – Ajax/BUR
11) Jurrien Timber RB – 79C – Ajax/HOL
12) Wouter Burger CM – 77C – Feyenoord/HOL
13) Enric Llansala – DM – 77C – Ajax/HOL (SPA)
14) Joey Koorevaar GK - 76C - Feyenoord/HOL
15) Marouan Azarkan AM – 77D – Feyenoord/HOL
_
HM: Crysencio Summerville (Feyenoord), Jip Moolenaar (Eintracht Frankfurt), Kenzo Goudmijn (AZ), Nigel Thomas (PSV), Yorbe Vertessen (PSV), Ramon Hendriks (Feyenoord), Cheick Toureé (Feyenoord), Tyro Nimmermeer (Lazio), Sydney van Hooijdonk Traore (NAC), Christopher Mamengi (Utrecht), Denilho Cleonise (Genoa), Thomas Buitink (Vitesse), Anouar El Mhassani (West Ham United), Jimmy Kaparos (Schalke), Daan Reiziger (Ajax), Splinter de Mooij (Feyenoord), _

*2002 *
1) Ryan Gravenberch CM – 90B Ajax/HOL
2) Mohammed Ihattaren W/AM – 90C – PSV/HOL
3) Brian Brobbey ST – 88D – Ajax/HOL
4) Kenneth Taylor CM – 83B – Ajax/HOL
5) Annas Salah-Eddine – LB – 84C – Ajax/HOL
6) Ian Maatsen LB/CB – 84C – Chelsea/HOL
7) Jayden Braaf ST 84C – Manchester City/HOL
8) Melayro Bogarde CB - 84C – Hoffenheim/HOL
9) Ki-Jana Hoever CB/RB – 83C – Liverpool/HOL
10) Dillon Hoogewerf ST - 83C – Manchester United/HOL
11) Noni Madueke – RW/AM – 83C – PSV/ENG
12) Jeremy Antonisse W/CAM- 83C - PSV/HOL
13) Jaymillo Pinas ST – 82C - Ajax/HOL
14) Sontje Hansen LW/ST – 82C – Ajax/HOL
15) Mohamed Taabouni AM – 81C – AZ/HOL

HM: Romano Postema (Groningen), Kian Slor (Groningen), Fode Fofana (PSV), Nerysho Kasanwirjo (Ajax), Naoufal Bannis (Feyenoord), Bjorn Hardley (Manchester United), Tein Troost (Feyenoord), Hossein Zamani (Utrecht), Dirk Proper (NEC).
*
2003 *
1) Naci Unuvar AM – 92C – Ajax/HOL
2) Xavi Simons CM – 90C – PSG/HOL
3) Kian Fitz-Jim CM – 89C – Ajax/HOL
4) Rio Hillen CB – 85C – Ajax/HOL
5) Noah Ohio ST - 86C – RB Leipzig/HOL
6) Devny Rensch CB – 85C – Ajax/HOL
7) Solomon Bonnah RB – 84C – RB Leipzig/HOL
8) Jenno Campagne CM - 84C - Ajax/HOL
9) Denzel Owusu CB – 84C – Feyenoord/HOL
10) Mohamed Sankoh ST – 81C – Stoke City/HOL
11) Mylian Jiminez CM – 81C – PSV/HOL
12) Christian Rasmussen RW 81C - Ajax/DEN
13) Fedde de Jong CM – 80C – AZ/HOL
14) Myron van Brederode – 80C – AZ/HOL
15) Julius Dirksen CB – 80C – Ajax/HOL

_HM: Youri Regeer (Ajax), Mohamed Akharaz (Utrecht), Dani van den Heuvel (Ajax), Youri Baas (Ajax), Ar’jany Martha (Ajax)._

============================================================================
*Top 15 Dutch prospects:*
_*Matthijs de Ligt, Frenkie de Jong and Steven Bergwijn graduated with all having played two full pro seasons._

*Abdelhak Nouri tribute - one of a kind.*
*An Iniesta/van der Vaart hybrid.*

A real #10 and a real phenom. The most anticipated product to come out of the academy in decades, Nouri won tons of personal accolades since the U12, with the MVP of the Jupiler League, the Dutch second division, as his most recent hardware. There he formed a midfield with van de Beek and Frenkie de Jong and was deemed a much greater talent than both at the time. His technical skills are unheard of. He uses his technique rapidly, effectively and is always in control. He can do mesmerizing things with the ball. His acceleration, two footedness and agility makes him hard to defend and he plays out of pressured or crowded situations without breaking a sweat due to his street skills. He turns and moves around so quickly. A ridiculous touch in his feet, Nouri dishes out the most incredible and creative assists and is always a threat with dangerous through balls. Accurate shot, too. Nouri doesn't waste many opportunities or shoot lose cannons. Personally, the most jaw dropping, entertaining player I have ever come across, not named Ronaldinho.

Nouri always was #1 on my rankings and always hovered around a 90-92. In terms of skills with the ball, Nouri could've been even higher, but his lack of defensive work and weak physical attributes (1.70 and 65KG) would require you to play with a real DM or two CM's beside him. Mentally, Nouri was excellent. Mature, realistic, but very ambitious. 

Abdelhak Nouri collapsed during a preseason match with Ajax in 2017. He's been in a coma ever since.
*
1) Naci Unuvar - AM - 92C - Ajax/HOL*
_Best offensive talent out of the Ajax academy since Appie Nouri._
Football talent scout review: Naci Ünüvar (10/10 potential: world class)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzkQwsjpy2I
Style comparison: A *Pirlo*/*Sneijder* hybrid
Maxed potential: *Best/top 3 CAM*

*Pro’s:*
- Outstanding dribbler
- Creates space for his teammates
- First touch is excellent.
- Quick, agile, light footed.
- Outstanding vision; reads plays well.
- His through ball is insane.
- Above average shot; more touch than power.
- Creative, technical – joy to watch.
- Very smart player; high football IQ; has continuously played vs boys 2 to 4 years older.

*Cons:*
- Short in size, though at 16 should still grow and beef up more.
- Can be a bit to enthusiastic.
- Defensively there’s still a lot of room to grow. He saves his energy when his team doesn’t have possession.
- Plays with a lot of risk in his game; prone to turnovers.
- Very hyped. You can tell people within the Ajax community want him to replace Nouri.

*2) Ryan Gravenberch – CM – 90B – Ajax/HOL*
_The player you build your team around._
Football talent scout review: Ryan Gravenberch (10/10 potential: world class)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4ynoBAr-O8&t=55s
Style comparison: *Paul Pogba*
Maxed potential: *Top 5 CM*

*Pro’s:*
- Tall, physical, albeit still lanky, midfielder; uses his size and reach very well.
- Creative; quality playmaker, which is his main strength.
- Speedy for his size.
- Calm; knows when to speed things up or slow things down. No nerves.
- Defensively strong.
- Powerful player; hard nosed in battles, hard shot, but also shows finesse in his playmaking and technique.
- Versatile; can play at all three midfield positions (DM, CM, AM or even wide).
- Leadership. Very talkative during his youth team days.

*Cons:*
- Can be prone to making unnecessary fouls at unnecessary moments.
- Rather wild shot. Should be more precise with his chances. I’ve head his teammates yell: “go get it yourself!” – whenever he was about to shoot from outside the box during practice.
- His versatility can actually hurt his development. Doesn’t appear to have picked a primary position yet, or better said his coaches. Even played parts as a striker during earlier youth matches.

*3) Xavi Simons - CM - 90C - PSG/HOL*
_Can he live up to the hype?_
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ8BroO4MqM&t=1s
Style comparison: A mix between *Luka Modric* and *Edgar Davids*
Maxed potential: *Top 5 CM*

*Pro’s:*
- Fast, with or without the ball. First touch is top notch.
- Thinks very quickly.
- Finds openings rather effortlessly.
- Outstanding through ball.
- Creates space and opportunities for his teammates
- Works hard, defends well; passionate.
- A real director on the pitch; directs the tempo of the match.
- High football IQ
- A vocal leader

*Cons:*
- Should shoot more often. He can be too generous with his passing.
- Size, much like Unuvar, is rather short, but he might still grow, nor does it affect players with his IQ much.
- Can be too fancy. I think he can be even more effective with his playmaking.
- Is hyped a lot. Has to deal with a lot of pressure.

*4) Mohammed Ihattaren - CAM – 90C – PSV/HOL*
_Yet another talented Dutch- Moroccan, but this one is the best one yet._
Football talent scout review: Mohammed Ihattaren (10/10 potential: world class)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_us2pIsU-o&t=243s
Style comparison: *Nabil Fekir*
Maxed potential: *Top 10 CAM

Pro’s:*
- Very all-round. Really has it all. Strong body, technique, pace, power, finesse.
- He’s a dribbling midfielder, but can also direct play and score himself.
- Has the technical ability and pace to pass his opponents, which he likes to do. Is a real creator out there.
- Very strong. Big legs, good frame and still growing. Should reach 1.87m.
- Hard to knock off the ball. Wins most of his battles.
- Can be useful as the link up guy and hold balls or as the playmaker behind the striker such as an enganche or function as a trequerista like Kaka.
- Lots of finesse in his passing and shot.
- Plays with a lot of passion. He’s a proud kid.

*Cons:*
- Can hold onto the ball too long. He dribbles with the ball where he should’ve went for the pass. His decision making needs work.
- Still has to learn how to direct the tempo of the match.
- Should use his pace more. Has the tendency to create or pass his opponents while standing still and that’s not always very efficient.
- Right foot needs work. He wants to do too much with his left, making him a bit predictable.
- Can find himself all over the place positionally.
- Ball control and first touch is good, but not consistent. Balls still bounce from his feet from time to time.
- Should be more noticeable on the scoresheet for such a dominating talent.
*
5) Kian Fitz Jim - CM – 89C – Ajax/HOL*
_Xavi Simons without the hype._
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EddDTJg5lnQ
Style comparison: *Xavi Hernandez*
Maxed potential: *Top 10 CM

Pro’s*
- A modern day #6. Likes to have the ball in his feet and start attacks from deep on his own half. A real director of play.
- Fitz Jim plays with that Virgil van Dijk swagger; just in total control, never panics.
- A true creative playmaker; he dribbles his way into free space effortlessly in order to set up his teammates.
- Strong with both feet.
- High work rate.
- Great touch. Master of the through ball. Especially high ones; his trademark.
- Has that extra gear. Starts out slow, dribbling, thinking and then he just takes off once he sees an opening.
* 
Cons:*
- Smart defensively, but is still overpowered at times.
- His body frame should fill out more; right now he’s quite skinny.
- His shot is average. Lacks power.
- He has so many traits that he will likely play multiple positions these next few years. He’s already played all midfield positions and winger. Hopefully he can focus solely on the #6.

* 6) Joshua Zirkzee – ST – 89B – Bayern München/HOL *
_A new breed striker. _
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mqfWSmO7qg&t=217s
Style comparison: A bigger, more technical *Ruud Gullit* (has some *Zlatan* traits as well)
Maxed potential: *Top 5 striker*

*Pro’s*
- There isn't a fitting striker role for him. He's a new breed.
- Fast, tall (1.93m) and powerful striker.
- Technically gifted.
- Hard, accurate shot. Zirkzee is deadly in the box.
- Thinks and moves around quickly and is an outstanding dribbler for his size.
- Is calm and has patience in pressured or crowded situations.
- Strong body makes him a great hold up guy, but has the agility and pace to create himself
- His vision and strength would make him work at CAM or even CM as well; much like Ruud Gullit.
- Outstanding with his head.
- Has scored his fair share of free kicks.

*Cons*
- Rarely uses his left foot.
- Wants to be involved too much at times. Trying to pick up balls way out of position.
- Can be too fancy, often leading to turnovers.

*7) Brian Brobbey – ST – 88D – Ajax/HOL*
_A gorilla on roids._
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCuEhVGAnG0
Style comparison: *Romelu Lukaku*
Maxed potential: *Top 10 striker

Pro’s:*
- Ridiculously strong (club even forbids him to work with weights now); imposing forward.
- Likes to play with his back towards the goal, hold the ball and wait for his teammates to position themselves, or turn and shoot himself.
- Underrated speed for a man his size, especially when at full speed.
- Powerful shot and a strong, fearless header.
- Deadly in the box. Knows where to be at the right time.
- Even played winger before, and while his main assets were wasted there, he better understands when and where to anticipate on crosses.

*Cons:*
- Not much of a playmaker.
- No finesse.
- A deep lying striker; not that useful without the ball.
- Is a volume shooter, but not always very accurate.
- Needs to surround himself with playmakers and crossing wingers to be most effective.
- His physical head start will level out once he reaches Ajax I. Will be interesting to see how he holds up, but the D-grade is understandable.

*8) Dashaiwn Redan – ST – 86C – Hertha BSC/HOL*
_UEFA youth league, Oranje U19 and Chelsea's U23 top scorer, who learned his football with Ajax and Chelsea._
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uO6T60g7Jo
Style comparison: *Anthony Martial*
Maxed potential: *Top 15 striker*

*Pro’s: *
- Complete striker. Strong with both feet, okay with his head, can be a poacher or create opportunities himself.
- Times his runs without the ball perfectly – always gets his fair share of chances.
- Has the speed, guts and technique to be an effective winger, too.
- Lateral speed, turns quickly, making him hard to guard even with his back towards the goal.
- Scores easily. Doesn’t need a whole lot of time or space. Lethal in the box.

*Cons:*
- His final delivery often lacks accuracy.
- Can be very nonchalant as the game goes on; overconfident with his trickery or shot.
- Should improve his heading. He can waste some perfect heading opportunities.
- Weak left foot.
- Can be very negative towards his teammates when things aren’t going well.
- Not all that tall; around 1.73m and below 70KG..
* 

9) Donyell Malen – W/ST – 86B – PSV/HOL*
_Oranje’s new striker, who learned his football with Arsenal and Ajax._
www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6oKjcDX4D4
Style comparison: *Raheem Sterling*
Maxed potential: *Top 15 striker

Pro’s:*
- Very fast, agile and light footed winger.
- Uses his acceleration to surprise his opponents.
- Trickery and efficient technique.
- Good goal instincts in the box.
- Good first touch and ball control at full speed.
- Has good vision and a good cross.
- Strong for his size (1.79m).
*
Cons:*
- Just turned striker. Jury is still out on his efficiency there.
- When he’s not starting out decent, he tries too overcompensate.
- Used to be a bit of an ego and ball hog, but this has improved already. His vision is great, but he still wants to do too much by himself at times.
- Doesn’t win many aerial battles.
- Can do more of the dirty work.

*10) Myron Boadu – ST – 85C – AZ/HOL *
_AZ’s jewel might become the youngest top scorer in Eredivisie history._
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgUznfve0VE
Style comparison: *Patrick Kluivert*
Maxed potential: *Top 15 striker

Pro’s: *
- Uses his body well. Hard to take away the ball from him.
- Good pace and technique.
- A threat at all three forward positions.
- Strong with both feet, making him clinical in the box.
- Creative in the crowded areas.

*Cons:*
- Average size (1.81m and 70KG). Should fill out more as he is still only 18.
- Shot lacks power still.
- Inconsistent because he has yet to identify himself with the proper striker role. I’d like him as an advanced forward myself.
- Broke his ankle last season. That usually remains a weak point for one’s career.
*
11) Immanuel Pherai – AM – 84C – Borussia Dortmund/HOL*
_Knocking on the door at Borussia Dortmund. Oranje is dying for a player like him._
www.youtube.com/watch?v=stXxaxSPdOk
Style comparison: *Ibrahim Afellay*
Maxed potential: *Top 15 AM*

*Pro’s:*
- Excellent playmaker. His vision is great.
- Likes to dribble and create himself.
- Has great (first) touch.
- More finesse than power.
- Creative; Pherai sees openings and space before anyone else on the pitch.
- Plays very deep for an CAM. Finds himself on the scoresheet quite often.
- Great (long distance) shot. Is the free kick specialist for some of the teams he has played for, including Oranje U18.

*Cons:*
- Can be too enthusiastic during his dribbles; prone to turnovers that way.
- A wild, lose canon at times. His plans out there aren’t always realistic.
- Ball control is good, but at full speed it needs practice.
- Not the biggest one out there. My guess is 1.75m and below 70KG.
*
12) Calvin Stengs – RW/AM – 84B – AZ/HOL *
_Oranje’s future winger_
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAEdXdQHBNg&t=35s
Style comparison: *Coutinho*
Maxed potential: *Top 15 winger*.

*Pro’s:*
- Very light footed.
- Great acceleration and top speed.
- Efficient finisher.
- Can create something out of nothing; is a constant threat when on.
- His technical ability makes him great in the smaller areas of the pitch.
- Versatile. Can be used on the wings or as the #10.
- Excellent vision. Frequently sets up teammates with nice through balls.
- Likes to cut inside and use his trickery to create chances himself. Not the typical backline-crossing-winger, though he still gets his fair share of assists that way.
*
Cons:*
- Still very inconsistent.
- Good size (1.87m) but lanky. Not the strongest player in battles.
- Only uses his left foot, making him a bit predictable.
- Ball control and first touch is inconsistent.
- Already a bit injury prone this early in his career.
*
13) Perr Schuurs – CB – 84B – Ajax/HOL*
_A CB with the total package, slowly reaching his potential_
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oLTnXGlaYo
Style comparison: *Rafael Varane*
Maxed potential: *Top 15 CB*

*Pro’s*
- Ideal size for a CB (1.93m and 90KG).
- Perr is calm in all situations.
- Very disciplined.
- Great in personal battles.
- Excellent header.
- Excellent long ball.
- Has gotten noticeable faster this past year.
- Times his interceptions extremely well. A good tackler.
- As most Dutch defenders, Perr is good with the ball. Has the confidence to dribble out of pressured situations.
- A leader. Captained Fortuna to the Eredivisie at just 17 years old.
- Had a wicked shot while playing for Fortuna, even scoring on free kicks. Has a different role with Ajax, but his shot should still be there.

*Cons:*
- Still prone to turnovers or weak moments. Needs to be more consistent.
- His breakout pass is outstanding, but he is sometimes afraid to use it. He should take that risk more often.
- Can be too nonchalant at times.
- Positional game during zone defense needs work.
- As most Dutch defenders, Perr is still a bit soft. I’d like him to be a bit more tough and intimidating.

*14) Tahith Chong – RW – 85C – Manchester United/HOL *
_An amazing blend of speed and technique_
Football talent scout review: Tahith Chong (9/10 potential: key player)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1cSSD7Aydg
Style comparison: *Ousmane Dembele*
Maxed potential: *Top 15 winger*

*Pro’s:*
- Lots of speed; especially his first steps.
- Outstanding technique and plays with a lot of flair; uses it effectively.
- Runs all the time and passes his man easily. Trickery and agility makes him hard to defend.
- Defends and willing to do the dirty work.
- Reads the game well and, even at top speed, has the touch to play outstanding through balls.
- Cuts inside a lot, not the typical backline-crossing-winger.
- Sometimes wild, but his shot is lethal. Has been a free kick specialist for Feyenoord and United youth squads.

*Cons:*
- Sometimes goes on runs without a plan – like a headless chicken.
- Prone to turnovers.
- Very lanky and a light weight. I think the primary reason he hasn’t made more minutes for United yet, as he has the raw talent to compete with the likes of Martial and Rashford already.
- Often wanting to do too much. Picking up balls at midfield or suddenly finding himself defending on the other side. Needs to have a coach to put him on a short leash. Mourinho would’ve been a good one if he were to be a more youth orientated coach.

*15) Kenneth Taylor – CM – 83B – Ajax/HOL *
_Ajax’ future captain_
Football talent scout review: Kenneth Taylor (9/10)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAMOXLjFU2Y
Style comparison: *Adrien Rabiot*
Maxed potential: *Top 20 CM

Pro’s:*
- A playmaker at the #8 or #6; Taylor is a regista with a high football IQ.
- Smart, mature kid. Very likely to reach his upside.
- Very efficient. Rarely loses balls.
- Really directs the tempo of the game.
- Outstanding (long) pass and through ball.
- Covers a lot of ground. Understands all 3 midfield positions.
- Does a lot of work defensively.
- Smart finisher.
- Strong with both feet.
- Excellent shot and free kick specialist for Ajax U17.
- A leader in every way. Organizes the team on and off the ball.

*Cons:*
- Not overly fast, but moves around quickly.
- Should be more noticeable on the scoresheet for such a ball hog.
- Needs to focus on one midfield role. I think he would be best in the #6 regista role, rather than the #8 he’s played a few times recently.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Super work, thanks!


----------



## robertmac43

@Ajacied amazing stuff as always! Do you have a blog or something like that, it's fun reading your more information packed posts


----------



## Ajacied

robertmac43 said:


> @Ajacied amazing stuff as always! Do you have a blog or something like that, it's fun reading your more information packed posts




No, I don't. I used to co-write these pieces for a football website, but the common fan wasn't as interested apparently. Now I just write these as a hobby and discuss them with friends. I try to follow and attend a few of the prestigious youth tournaments as much as I can or just spend a Sunday at De Toekomst, Ajax' youth academy, where all youth teams play their games and where the Ajax men squad practices.


----------



## robertmac43

Ajacied said:


> No, I don't. I used to co-write these pieces for a football website, but the common fan wasn't as interested apparently. Now I just write these as a hobby and discuss them with friends. I try to follow and attend a few of the prestigious youth tournaments as much as I can or just spend a Sunday at De Toekomst, Ajax' youth academy, where all youth teams play their games and where the Ajax men squad practices.




That's awesome keep it up. Do you do a mid season update on these guys? If not I feel like you should.

Also random question but how did you end up on HF from Amsterdam?


----------



## Ajacied

robertmac43 said:


> That's awesome keep it up. Do you do a mid season update on these guys? If not I feel like you should.




I don't, but this document is alive all season, so I might change or add a few things/talents. I usually try to update each summer dating all the way back to 2004. 



> Also random question but how did you end up on HF from Amsterdam?



Been around these boards for ages. Hockey isn't very popular in the Netherlands, so I tried to get my info and stuff online. Somehow it led me to this place. The interest in hockey has been a bit lower these past few years, but I still try to watch every Dallas Stars game I can.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Ajacied said:


> I don't, but this document is alive all season, so I might change or add a few things/talents. I usually try to update each summer dating all the way back to 2004.
> 
> 
> Been around these boards for ages. Hockey isn't very popular in the Netherlands, so I tried to get my info and stuff online. Somehow it led me to this place. *The interest in hockey has been a bit lower these past few years, *but I still try to watch every Dallas Stars game I can.




A reoccurring theme here. I wonder if anyone who posts on soccer forum regularly still watches hockey. Also you suck for not having Martinez at 100A.


----------



## robertmac43

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> A reoccurring theme here. I wonder if anyone who posts on soccer forum regularly still watches hockey. Also you suck for not having Martinez at 100A.




I watch most Leafs games and have season tickets to the Junior team in town. I just find the hockey talk on this page is wildly out of control most of the time so I essentially use HF for soccer talk.


----------



## robertmac43

Ajacied said:


> Been around these boards for ages. Hockey isn't very popular in the Netherlands, so I tried to get my info and stuff online. Somehow it led me to this place. The interest in hockey has been a bit lower these past few years, but* I still try to watch every Dallas Stars game I can*.




Well that explains why the interest is low . I'm guessing the time change is not the most helpful.


----------



## Cassano

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> A reoccurring theme here. I wonder if anyone who posts on soccer forum *regularly still watches hocke*y. Also you suck for not having Martinez at 100A.



nope haven't seen a full game in 3 seasons now.


----------



## phisherman

@Ajacied Thanks for updating the list. Going to update my FM database now.

Just need @Evilo, @Pavel Buchnevich, @John Pedro , @Duchene2MacKinnon, @Juni and @cgf to do their lists like in the past and it will be good times again.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

phisherman said:


> @Ajacied Thanks for updating the list. Going to update my FM database now.
> 
> Just need @Evilo, @Pavel Buchnevich, @John Pedro , @Duchene2MacKinnon, @Juni and @cgf to do their lists like in the past and it will be good times again.




I made the yearly list of American prospects. Page 9 of this thread. It’s only from two months ago.



Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> A reoccurring theme here. I wonder if anyone who posts on soccer forum regularly still watches hockey. Also you suck for not having Martinez at 100A.




I regularly watch hockey.


----------



## YNWA14

I also used to make a Dutch list, and generally talk with Ajacied privately about them beforehand. Alas, two kids and a lot going on so I don't really have as much time on my hands as I'd like.

A few things I'd note...I like Ihattaren a lot; I might even put him above Gravenberch. I like Gakpo more than Stengs. I don't think Simons is even a top 10 Dutch talent after having seen him more. I really like Taylor but he's a much more 'under the radar' type player who makes everyone around him better without shining too much on his own. Unuvar is amazing and I just hope the hype and early success doesn't go to his head or affect his development. Maatsen and Rensch really impressed me in the u17 tournament as well as Salah-Eddine but Maatsen especially stood out among his peers. 

I'll probably add more later, but great work.


----------



## Ajacied

YNWA14 said:


> I like Ihattaren a lot; I might even put him above Gravenberch.




They might switch places a few times these next few years. Very close. I just like Gravenberch's rare attributes a little more and I trust Ajax and Ten Hag a fair chunk more when it comes to developing talent, rather than van Bommel and PSV. High end Dutch-Moroccan talents usually miss the ultimate focus and drive to really fulfill their potential (Bakkali, Aissati, Labyad, Bouy, Amrabat. Even Afellay to some extent). I don't have that with Ihattaren, but it's still in the back of my mind a bit.




> I like Gakpo more than Stengs.



No. Stengs is a fair bit better than Gakpo, who has his limitations. Gakpo might be a bit stronger and might have a better shot, but Stengs is much more talented in each and every way: better playmaker, better finisher, better creator, faster. I think the 80 for Gakpo might be a bit too generous, while the 84 for Stengs is more than justified. He lost an entire year of development with the season ending injury last year. AZ would have lost him to the bigger European already sides if he hadn't. He is already too expensive for Ajax or PSV.



> I don't think Simons is even a top 10 Dutch talent after having seen him more.



I have the exact opposite. The more I see him, the more I realize what a great talent he is. I ignore the hype and expectations. I do feel he's coming off a rough year. Maybe the Barca contract negotiations, hassle with Raiola, and the outlook of leaving his home, family and friends for a foreign adventure distracted him a bit. A massive leap for any 16 year old. Didn't make the step from the U16 to the U17 for Oranje this year as a result, which is why everyone is not buying the hype anymore, but I disagree. The U17 and especially it's midfield is one of the most talented positions in the Oranje youth ranks. Simons also plays the furthest away from home and frequently misses Oranje camps, practices and exhibition matches.

But again, this is close as well. Gravenberch, Ihatarren, Fitz-Jim and Simons are in a group of their own. They might switch places on this list a lot over the years, but Simons shouldn't be placed lower than 5th IMO, even though Zirkzee is a freak at #6.



> I really like Taylor but he's a much more 'under the radar' type player who makes everyone around him better without shining too much on his own.



I think you are underrating him a bit, though I definitely see what you mean. He is more of a quiet, smart type of player, but his leadership, vision and two-footedness make him a standout in most of the games I've seen him play in. As if he's a step ahead of most of the players on the pitch. He plays such a mature game that I wouldn't be surprised to see him make his debut in a Cup game this year. Though there are lots of candidates with Ajax II deserving of that.



> Unuvar is amazing and I just hope the hype and early success doesn't go to his head or affect his development.



Yeah, though he seems very down to earth. I think he'll cope with the pressure well, but we'll see. I think he'll go the Gravenberch-route: make his debut next season, but play most of his games for Ajax II. Then could very well make serious noise in 2021-2022.



> Maatsen and Rensch really impressed me in the u17 tournament as well as Salah-Eddine but Maatsen especially stood out among his peers.



After Taylor it's all really close. I'd probably rank the 16-25 as followed:

16) Annas Salah-Eddine (LB - Ajax)
17) Ian Maatsen (WB/CB - Chelsea)
18) Rio Hillen (LCB - Ajax)
19) Devny Rensch (RCB - Ajax)
20) Noah Ohio (ST - RB Leipzig)
21) Solomon Bonnah (LB - RB Leipzig)
22) Jayden Braaf (ST - Manchester City)
23) Juan Familia Castillo (LB/LM - Chelsea)
24) Melayro Bogarde (CB - Hoffenheim)
25) Orkun Kökcü (AM - Feyenoord)

All in all, Oranje looks fine. The ' 97, '98 and '99 generations is a bit lacking and has/had its question marks. Hence the difference in quality throughout Oranjes line up and lack of youth and offensive depth. Injury problems (Nouri, Stengs, Eiting, Fosu-Mensah, Dilrosun), poor choices (Kluivert, Fernandes, Chong, Sandler, Adekanye, Kadioglu) and failing to take the next step (Sierhuis, Kongolo, Lang, Obispo) will halt Oranje's return to the elite a bit. Even though van Dijk, De Jong, Depay, De Ligt are doing an extremely good job with their supporting cast. The real jewels and foundation blocks of the future are in the generations below. Especially those talents we are seriously short in right now (AM, ST, WB's). I hope we see a Ihatarren, Frenkie and Gravenberch midfield as soon as the EC of 2022. That just would work beautifully. Oranje's biggest problem will be between the posts. They haven't developed a real elite talent there in ages. Even Cillessen is second tier. These lists barely have any, though they develop at a different pace than field players. Ajax has a few interesting ones in Raatsie, Reiziger, El Maach and Scherpen, but neither seems to be a standout right now. Same goes for the goalkeeping talents elsewhere (Koorevaar, Schendelaar, Drommel). 



> I'll probably add more later, but great work.



Merci. Looking forward to more opinions


----------



## bluesfan94

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> A reoccurring theme here. I wonder if anyone who posts on soccer forum regularly still watches hockey. Also you suck for not having Martinez at 100A.



I do, but there're good reasons for that.

@Ajacied Thanks for the list. Hopefully Malen remembers his Arsenal DNA once he develops a little more.


phisherman said:


> @Ajacied Thanks for updating the list. Going to update my FM database now.
> 
> Just need @Evilo, @Pavel Buchnevich, @John Pedro , @Duchene2MacKinnon, @Juni and @cgf to do their lists like in the past and it will be good times again.



That would be great. Always one of my favorite things to read. I know @Evilo said he was going on a break but hopefully he'll be back soon. I miss his insights. @cgf seems to be around more often so hopefully we can cajole him into making another list. I feel ignorant about German youth football these days.

Frankly though, D2M and @John Pedro are here all the time and don't really have excuses for their laziness. 



YNWA14 said:


> I also used to make a Dutch list, and generally talk with Ajacied privately about them beforehand. Alas, two kids and a lot going on so I don't really have as much time on my hands as I'd like.



Yeah, I would love to have time to watch enough youth soccer to make lists. Ideally, I would do mine not on a country's prospects but rather on a country's league; that is to say, I might get into English youth soccer leagues more once I start working because I like having soccer on while I work. I work better that way.

I just need to find a consistent way to watch games, ideally with full match replays available so I can watch at work


----------



## Juni

I haven't produced lists in years but I'm more knowledgable about the young English game than I ever have been. Might have to dip back in...


----------



## robertmac43

I got you with the ever so important CPL prospects :p. So many future world beaters in the league.


----------



## phisherman

robertmac43 said:


> I got you with the ever so important CPL prospects :p. So many future world beaters in the league.




I wouldn't mind a CPL list.


----------



## robertmac43

phisherman said:


> I wouldn't mind a CPL list.




I will do something at the of the season as I think there are some players moving up at the end of this.


----------



## Ajacied

Nicolas Kühn (19 - Ajax - ST/W) was recently named the best German U19 talent (Fritz Walter award). Previous winners were Kai Havertz, Mario Götze, Julian Draxler, Marc-André ter Stegen, Leon Goretzka and Timo Werner. Nice company to be in, but I am not sure about the recognition. He didn't play up to his potential playing out of position this past season.


----------



## AB13




----------



## robertmac43

That goal was unreal! My goodness!!


----------



## YNWA14

Great goal by the defender.


----------



## Juni

Castillo back to Ajax!


----------



## YNWA14

Ihattaren asked not to be included in the u21 call-up for the upcoming game so that he could 'focus on his decision' in terms of his NT future. Losing him to Morocco would be absolutely terrible. Obviously the Netherlands have enough talent to deal with it, but he might be the most talented player of his generation for the Dutch and it's frustrating to lose another player (like Ziyech) who played and learned all of their football in the Netherlands. Ziyech was a different case because he wanted to play for the Netherlands and was dicked around a bit (well done KNVB), but still. I know Evilo has complained about this in the past and I find it pretty valid.

At the same time I don't want players playing for the NT unless their hearts are in it. It should be an honor and a privilege to represent your country, especially one with the history of the Oranje. Oh well.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I'm a big fan of this player. He hasn't gotten the chance to play in MLS that he should've, given the lack of talent on his MLS team, so I think it's wise to leave now. Some US fans have unfairly criticized him for being too slow and not good defensively, but he's actually a very good defensive player and his slowness is overstated. With consistent playing time, I think he'll be playing in the Champions League within a few seasons.


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm a big fan of this player. He hasn't gotten the chance to play in MLS that he should've, given the lack of talent on his MLS team, so I think it's wise to leave now. Some US fans have unfairly criticized him for being too slow and not good defensively, but he's actually a very good defensive player and his slowness is overstated. With consistent playing time, I think he'll be playing in the Champions League within a few seasons.




I like this move. I feel like he will get playing time there and Belgium is a good place to develop.


----------



## Cassano

Trailing at minute 70 2-0, Balogun comes on to score and assist another to draw the game level.


----------



## phisherman

Cassano said:


> Trailing at minute 70 2-0, Balogun comes on to score and assist another to draw the game level.





The goals.


----------



## Ajacied

Went to De Toekomst to watch the Dutch U19 Super Cup, between Ajax and Feyenoord. No fans allowed due to the riots last time, but managed to get in anyway. Seems like they just wanted to keep the hooligans out.



Ajax won handedly with 4-1. Goals scored by Hansen (2x), Taylor and Rensch. Feyenoord played out the final 30 minutes with 10 men after a horrific frustration tackle.

Naci Unuvar was involved a lot up until the 2-1 and the red card. After the red card the game was pretty much done with. He's just oozing with talent and it's even better live. I liked his defensive work this time as well. His ball control and speed was amazing, as was his assist on the game winner; Sontje Hansen's first goal. 


Sontje Hansen scored two goals. His second goal was every bit as nice as the first one:


He found his teammates easily in the crowded areas near and in the box. Can sometimes play himself out of situations a little too cute, but overall a very strong game.
Kenneth Taylor had a strong game as well. Had two great pin point assists wasted by Hansen and Dostanic (who replaced the injured Brobbey). His goal was nice as well; a low, hard shot in the far corner from about 20 meters. Shot it with his weak foot, though he doesn't really has a weaker foot.
Devyne Rensch was solid and scored the opener. I just missed it.
Nordin Musampa caught my eye at the back this time. Had a little weak moment together with Rensch on the Feyenoord goal. I think both acted a little too soft there and had a little miscommunication, but Musampa played himself out of pressured situations extremely well.
Reiziger (GK) looked shaky.
Azarkan (Feyenoord) was a major threat. His speed, agility and technique was a pain to play against.
Salah-Eddine wasn't involved offensively a lot (had to stay alert defensively with Azarkan's speed). The few times he did, he always managed to pass his man provide a good cross.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Johan Gomez, 18 year old striker from the FC Dallas academy, signs with FC Porto. He scored a lot of goals last year in their U19 team. He has a chance to make it as a good footballer, but he's not a top level talent and the team already has an 18 year old and 16 year old at his position who are playing for the first team.

His younger brother Jonathan, however, is a mega-talent and Dallas is trying their absolute best to get him signed. The US isn't off the hook here easily either with Mexico inviting him to a recent U16 roster.


----------



## AB13

Matteo Guendouzi completely ran the show in the NLD today. As most people who have read my previous posts before, I am not a fan of him at all. I saw some of his usual errors today, but he displayed some flashes of brilliance I have seen before throughout the whole game for 90 minutes, doing almost everything right on and off the ball. A dominant midfield performance! It is clear playing a box to box role further up the pitch where he does not have to think about controling things from deep suits him a lot for.


----------



## ecemleafs

Celtic signed Jeremie Frimpong. Appeared on one of Ajacied lists. Is he a right back or a right winger?


----------



## Ajacied

ecemleafs said:


> Celtic signed Jeremie Frimpong. Appeared on one of Ajacied lists. Is he a right back or a right winger?




Didn't see that one coming by. Good move by him though. City is a graveyard for young talents. The sooner he leaves, the better and Celtic seems like a great place to take the next step. Frimpong was used as a wingback for City, but he has all the offensive traits to be a successful winger. It just depends on the formation. He's a copy of Castillo, who just joined Ajax from Chelsea, they just play on opposite sides. 

I do think Frimpong was a greater talent at 16. He hasn't been as impressive since.


----------



## Luigi Habs

YNWA14 said:


> Ihattaren asked not to be included in the u21 call-up for the upcoming game so that he could 'focus on his decision' in terms of his NT future. Losing him to Morocco would be absolutely terrible. Obviously the Netherlands have enough talent to deal with it, but he might be the most talented player of his generation for the Dutch and it's frustrating to lose another player (like Ziyech) who played and learned all of their football in the Netherlands. Ziyech was a different case because he wanted to play for the Netherlands and was dicked around a bit (well done KNVB), but still. I know Evilo has complained about this in the past and I find it pretty valid.
> 
> At the same time I don't want players playing for the NT unless their hearts are in it. It should be an honor and a privilege to represent your country, especially one with the history of the Oranje. Oh well.




Who’s the last european ‘wonderkid’ of Morrocan/Algerian origin who chose to represent the country of origins lived up to the hype? I feel those kids are heavily influenced by their entourage. I fear Ihattaren will be another one who’ll waste away his talent due to external influence.


----------



## Ajacied

Luigi Habs said:


> Who’s the last european ‘wonderkid’ of Morrocan/Algerian origin who chose to represent the country of origins lived up to the hype? I feel those kids are heavily influenced by their entourage. I fear Ihattaren will be another one who’ll waste away his talent due to external influence.




If he choses for Morocco, which seems like it, it will influence his career negatively, though I still think he'll be an awesome player. Morocco is already luring him with bonuses and free money and I bet that his entourage and family all want him to represent Morocco without really seeing the greater picture.

I know Ziyech opted for Morocco because he kept being ignored by Oranje. Danny Blind to be precise. He only made the pre-selections a few times. He chose Morocco because he was fed up and he has regretted it ever since. He won't ever say that, but you can just tell the way he acts when discussing the subject. It has made him less attractable for bigger European sides, I think, and might be a big reason why he still plays in Amsterdam, which I don't mind.


----------



## SJSharks72

Ajacied said:


> If he choses for Morocco, which seems like it, it will influence his career negatively, though I still think he'll be an awesome player. Morocco is already luring him with bonuses and free money and I bet that his entourage and family all want him to represent Morocco without really seeing the greater picture.
> 
> I know Ziyech opted for Morocco because he kept being ignored by Oranje. Danny Blind to be precise. He only made the pre-selections a few times. He chose Morocco because he was fed up and he has regretted it ever since. He won't ever say that, but you can just tell the way he acts when discussing the subject. It has made him less attractable for bigger European sides, I think, and might be a big reason why he still plays in Amsterdam, which I don't mind.



I never understand that with teams. It shouldn’t matter where a player is from/what country they represent. If they’re a good player and fill a need then you should sign them. I think it’s something a lot of teams struggle with. It’s like hey we have a chance to sign a French player that has 3 caps or an Armenian player with 53 caps. They see the French player as better and the Armenian player as worse just because of the differences in international exposure. (You can replace France with any big national team and Armenian with any small national team). This is how you get Harry Maguire going for more than Kostas Manolas or Christian Pulisic going for more than Julian Brandt.


----------



## Ajacied

SJSharks39 said:


> I never understand that with teams. It shouldn’t matter where a player is from/what country they represent. If they’re a good player and fill a need then you should sign them. I think it’s something a lot of teams struggle with. It’s like hey we have a chance to sign a French player that has 3 caps or an Armenian player with 53 caps. They see the French player as better and the Armenian player as worse just because of the differences in international exposure. (You can replace France with any big national team and Armenian with any small national team). This is how you get Harry Maguire going for more than Kostas Manolas or Christian Pulisic going for more than Julian Brandt.




It doesn't, but when it concerns players outside the EU, there are some things that might influence a possible buy. Players outside the EU are a bit less attractive since clubs are not allowed to play with too many. I know La Liga teams can only have 3 in its entire selection. Then there are tournaments such as the Africa Cup, which, unlike the EC and WC, is played during the season. It's also a less attractive big stage than the EC and WC. If you impress there, you pretty much can chose the teams you want to go to. Impress during the Africa Cup and you barely get any recognition.


----------



## YNWA14

AFCON isn't played during the season anymore.


----------



## Ajacied

YNWA14 said:


> AFCON isn't played during the season anymore.




Yeah, you are right. Forgot about that. They changed it recently.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Troy Parrott is included in Spurs CL squad.


----------



## KJS14

SJSharks39 said:


> I never understand that with teams. It shouldn’t matter where a player is from/what country they represent. If they’re a good player and fill a need then you should sign them. I think it’s something a lot of teams struggle with. It’s like hey we have a chance to sign a French player that has 3 caps or an Armenian player with 53 caps. They see the French player as better and the Armenian player as worse just because of the differences in international exposure. (You can replace France with any big national team and Armenian with any small national team). This is how you get Harry Maguire going for more than Kostas Manolas or Christian Pulisic going for more than Julian Brandt.




I don't disagree with you, but I think it has more to do with the marketing potential for players from certain countries making them more attractive to clubs (i.e. Pulisic, Chicharito, etc).


----------



## cgf

SJSharks39 said:


> I never understand that with teams. It shouldn’t matter where a player is from/what country they represent. If they’re a good player and fill a need then you should sign them. I think it’s something a lot of teams struggle with. It’s like hey we have a chance to sign a French player that has 3 caps or an Armenian player with 53 caps. They see the French player as better and the Armenian player as worse just because of the differences in international exposure. (You can replace France with any big national team and Armenian with any small national team). This is how you get Harry Maguire going for more than Kostas Manolas or Christian Pulisic going for more than Julian Brandt.




Some of this is stupid archaic thinking, but some is also about where clubs choose to focus their resources. There are limitations on just how thoroughly you can scout every single nation's pro- & youth-leagues. So teams trying to get ahead of the market, to find better bargains, will cluster their efforts in different areas as the talent level fluctuates and the market shifts. The latter being especially irksome for a more financially limited club, like BMG...who's scouting staff seems to have a pill-pushing shadow arriving not too long after them, whenever they identify a new value-hotbed to set up shop in.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> I never understand that with teams. It shouldn’t matter where a player is from/what country they represent. If they’re a good player and fill a need then you should sign them. I think it’s something a lot of teams struggle with. It’s like hey we have a chance to sign a French player that has 3 caps or an Armenian player with 53 caps. They see the French player as better and the Armenian player as worse just because of the differences in international exposure. (You can replace France with any big national team and Armenian with any small national team). This is how you get Harry Maguire going for more than Kostas Manolas or *Christian Pulisic going for more than Julian Brandt*.




This isn't really an example of what you're saying Brandt is from a bigger country than Pulisic. Although I don't disagree with what you're saying. That example is off though.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

It’s also not a good comparison because Brandt being undervalued doesn’t make Pulisic overvalued. Pulisic is properly valued. Brandt was undervalued.


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> It’s also not a good comparison because Brandt being undervalued doesn’t make Pulisic overvalued. Pulisic is properly valued. Brandt was undervalued.



Pulisic was way over valued.


Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> This isn't really an example of what you're saying Brandt is from a bigger country than Pulisic. Although I don't disagree with what you're saying. That example is off though.



I more of meant it as an example of the marketing aspect instead of just the country. Chelsea could have bought Brandt and been in a better position but they bought Pulisic (who I love by the way) who is worse for 3x the amount of money.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Remember this name : Rayan Cherki from Lyon.

I know we already discussed this prospect before but I just saw some highlights of recent games and his audacity and ability to pull some of the hardest moves so easily in actual games let me think he could become another top worldclass player for France.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

JeffreyLFC said:


> Remember this name : Rayan Cherki from Lyon.
> 
> I know we already discussed this prospect before but I just saw some highlights of recent games and his audacity and ability to pull some of the hardest moves so easily in actual games let me think he could become another top worldclass player for France.




Evilo says he's the best prospect of his generation so yeah he's one to watch


----------



## Ajacied

Vasilevskiy said:


> Evilo says he's the best prospect of his generation so yeah he's one to watch




Best of his French generation perhaps. It's nearly impossible to claim any U17 talent to be the best in the world. They all compete at so many different levels. Anyone who does needs to put down the homer goggles.


----------



## John Pedro

Reinier first as a pro


----------



## YNWA14

John Pedro said:


> Reinier first as a pro




How has he been this season? Still high on his potential?


----------



## robertmac43

Are there any good strikers from the German lower leagues that should be on peoples radars?


----------



## John Pedro

YNWA14 said:


> How has he been this season? Still high on his potential?




This was his third or fourth game as a pro, Flamengo is stacked (Bruno Henrique, Arrascaeta, Everton Ribeiro, Gabigol), there isn't much room for him.


----------



## cgf

Ajacied said:


> Best of his French generation perhaps. It's nearly impossible to claim any U17 talent to be the best in the world. They all compete at so many different levels. Anyone who does needs to put down the homer goggles.




Agreed. Moukoko is obviously the best of that generation, globally


----------



## cgf

robertmac43 said:


> Are there any good strikers from the German lower leagues that should be on peoples radars?




Depends on what you mean by lower leagues. There are some kids that could get some NT caps in the BuLi2, but the only one coming to mind below that who is already playing above the youth level & should start making noise in the near future would be Franck Evina...only, he opted for Cameroon this past winter...

David Otto is on loan in the 2nd division, and I've always liked him. Not world-class unless he can get there in a Klose-y way; i.e. via hyper-efficiency...but a Volland-esque ceiling of NT-backup caliber forward is certainly possible and I might be higher on him than I am Selke in the long run if I had to bet on one of them to actually contribute to the NT...as I can totally see Selke spending a while as the token "plan B" striker...but realistically I still think that Otto is more in line with the Füllkrug & Uth's of the world than with the Kruse & Stindl's.

Other BuLi2 strikers that have some fans in german youth football include Krüger, Serra, & Knöll, but I don't really rate the last two and between injuries & stagnation, I don't see a NT future for Krüger either...although he could still put it together later to become an Uth or Füllkrug caliber player. When it comes to pure strikers with NT-starter potential our top prospects are still Moukoko, Eggestein & Arp.

Though there are a lot more wingers / shadow strikers with NT-claiber talent; who could end up leading the line for us (like Gnabry currently is). That list is much denser; featuring the likes of Batista Meier, Dajaku, Kühn, Massimo, Hartmann & Yeboah, starting to make the jump to the senior level...alongside the likes of Dardai, Bias, Jastrzembski, Goller, Herrmann, Pohlmann & Biskup; who also have NT potential & their fans, although I'm not nearly as high on them as the first set.

Plus there are the next age groups, many of whom (also) see a lot of their top talents occupying winger/2nd striker/AM -spots...kids like Mika Schroers, Luca Barata, Lazar Samardzic, Mehmet-Can Aydin, David Hummel, etc.


----------



## YNWA14

cgf said:


> Depends on what you mean by lower leagues. There are some kids that could get some NT caps in the BuLi2, but the only one coming to mind below that who is already playing above the youth level & should start making noise in the near future would be Franck Evina...only, he opted for Cameroon this past winter...
> 
> David Otto is on loan in the 2nd division, and I've always liked him. Not world-class unless he can get there in a Klose-y way; i.e. via hyper-efficiency...but a Volland-esque ceiling of NT-backup caliber forward is certainly possible and I might be higher on him than I am Selke in the long run if I had to bet on one of them to actually contribute to the NT...as I can totally see Selke spending a while as the token "plan B" striker...but realistically I still think that Otto is more in line with the Füllkrug & Uth's of the world than with the Kruse & Stindl's.
> 
> Other BuLi2 strikers that have some fans in german youth football include Krüger, Serra, & Knöll, but I don't really rate the last two and between injuries & stagnation, I don't see a NT future for Krüger either...although he could still put it together later to become an Uth or Füllkrug caliber player. When it comes to pure strikers with NT-starter potential our top prospects are still Moukoko, Eggestein & Arp.
> 
> Though there are a lot more wingers / shadow strikers with NT-claiber talent; who could end up leading the line for us (like Gnabry currently is). That list is much denser; featuring the likes of Batista Meier, Dajaku, Kühn, Massimo, & Yeboah, starting to make the jump to the senior level...alongside the likes of Hartmann, Dardai, Jastrzembski, Goller, Herrmann, Pohlmann, Bias & Biskup, who also have NT potential; although I'm not nearly as high on them as the first set.
> 
> Plus there are the next age groups, many of whom (also) see a lot of their top talents occupying winger/2nd striker/AM -spots...kids like Mika Schroers, Luca Barata, Lazar Samardzic, Mehmet-Can Aydin, David Hummel, etc.



Do you rate Evina better than Zirkzee? I noticed that Bayern II kept Zirkzee over Evina for this season and has been giving him minutes.


----------



## cgf

YNWA14 said:


> Do you rate Evina better than Zirkzee? I noticed that Bayern II kept Zirkzee over Evina for this season and has been giving him minutes.




I see the dutchman as a lot more of a pure 9 type player at the senior level, while Evina I see as a forward who will be able to thrive all across a front 3; so it can be a little tricksy to compare them...

...but I definitely rate Evina more than Zirkzee, even if I focus on comparing them to what they are. I've never really been all that high on Zirkzee, while Evina has pretty much always impressed me in some way when I've watched his matches...plus I prefer his archetype. The skill, tenacity/craftiness & burst are there in spades to become an impact player if he wants it & isn't derailed by injuries / poor-career-choices.

I'm pretty sure that that is why, instead of keeping him with Bayern II; which had just been promoted to the 3rd division; he was loaned to a club that finished comfortably in the middle of the 3rd division table last season...a club for whom he has 4 goals & an assist after 7 games; in which he has averaged more than 80min/game.

That said, I do think Dajaku has moved ahead of Evina over the past year & has really made a push for OBM's title of the most exciting german 2001er...although I still rate OBM's potential more. So Bayern poaching Dajaku, on top of adding Davies, is probably what forced Evina to need a loan, instead of splitting his time between training with Bayern & playing for Bayern II -- with the potential for 1st team cameos -- like Batista-Meier, Davies & Dajaku are doing this season.


----------



## YNWA14

cgf said:


> I see the dutchman as a lot more of a pure 9 type player at the senior level, while Evina I see as a forward who will be able to thrive all across a front 3; so it can be a little tricksy to compare them...
> 
> ...but I definitely rate Evina more than Zirkzee, even if I focus on comparing them to what they are. I've never really been all that high on Zirkzee, while Evina has pretty much always impressed me in some way when I've watched his matches...plus I prefer his archetype. The skill, tenacity/craftiness & burst are there in spades to become an impact player if he wants it & isn't derailed by injuries / poor-career-choices.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that that is why, instead of keeping him with Bayern II; which had just been promoted to the 3rd division; he was loaned to a club that finished comfortably in the middle of the 3rd division table last season...a club for whom he has 4 goals & an assist after 7 games; in which he has averaged more than 80min/game.
> 
> That said, I do think Dajaku has moved ahead of Evina over the past year & has really made a push for OBM's title of the most exciting german 2001er...although I still rate OBM's potential more. So Bayern poaching Dajaku, on top of adding Davies, is probably what forced Evina to need a loan, instead of splitting his time between training with Bayern & playing for Bayern II -- with the potential for 1st team cameos -- like Batista-Meier, Davies & Dajaku are doing this season.



Yeah I remember we spoke briefly about Dajaku before you took your hiatus as well as a few others. I'll keep an eye on them thanks!


----------



## cgf

YNWA14 said:


> Yeah I remember we spoke briefly about Dajaku before you took your hiatus as well as a few others. I'll keep an eye on them thanks!




Yeah, I had heard some things about Stuttgart's academy that gave credence to my concerns about the players they'd been producing being able to adapt to other styles of play; prior to some changes they've made recently(ish). So I was a little skeptical of Dajaku & Hummel actually making the most of their talent when all was said & done as I was skeptical that they had changed enough, but both had shown serious talent & Dajaku has done nothing but prove his quality so far...neither has Hummel either really, he's just not as far along as Dajaku. So I've been warming up to both of them & Dajaku in particular.

It'll be interesting to see if Bayern does end up rebuilding their 1st team through the transfer front, or if their stubbornness about adapting to the market causes them to stumble ass-backward into another clutch of "homegrown" starters; with the likes of Dajaku, Arp & Davies sure to be branded with that label if they become stars after having spent "some" time with Bayern II...not to mention that Mai & OBM would actually deserve it.


----------



## YNWA14

cgf said:


> Yeah, I had heard some things about Stuttgart's academy that gave credence to my concerns about the players they'd been producing being able to adapt to other styles of play; prior to some changes they've made recently(ish). So I was a little skeptical of Dajaku & Hummel actually making the most of their talent when all was said & done as I was skeptical that they had changed enough, but both had shown serious talent & Dajaku has done nothing but prove his quality so far...neither has Hummel either really, he's just not as far along as Dajaku. So I've been warming up to both of them & Dajaku in particular.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see if Bayern does end up rebuilding their 1st team through the transfer front, or if their stubbornness about adapting to the market causes them to stumble ass-backward into another clutch of "homegrown" starters; with the likes of Dajaku, Arp & Davies sure to be branded with that label if they become stars after having spent "some" time with Bayern II...not to mention that Mai & OBM would actually deserve it.



Lars Lukas Mai actually really intrigues me. I've not seen as much of him as I'd like, but when I have he's the closest thing to a van Dijk comparison I have seen at youth level. Very big, seems extremely calm, good on the ball and commanding in his zone. Maybe I'm wrong and just caught some good games but I can't see him not becoming at least a very good player.


----------



## cgf

YNWA14 said:


> Lars Lukas Mai actually really intrigues me. I've not seen as much of him as I'd like, but when I have he's the closest thing to a van Dijk comparison I have seen at youth level. Very big, seems extremely calm, good on the ball and commanding in his zone. Maybe I'm wrong and just caught some good games but I can't see him not becoming at least a very good player.




Nah that's pretty representative of how he's looked at the youth levels most of the time. He, Torunarigha & Aidonis (if VFB really have gotten their shit together) are probably our most exciting CB prospects who haven't yet broken out at the senior level. But there's still so much growth ahead and there's still so much up to chance; like Tah, who could be in the discussion for best CB in the sport right now if he had been learning from one of the great coaches these past 3-4 seasons. So it'll be interesting to see who from that Tah / Süle / Kehrer / Mai / Torunarigha / Aidonis / etc. group, makes the most of their potential.


----------



## John Pedro

Matheus Cunha is pretty good. Brazil's Olimpic team facing Chile (winning 3-1 so far, Matheus brace and Antony). The kid is pretty skilled, fast and has got a knack for scoring. Hopes Leipzig gives him more PT or maybe loan him out.


----------



## cgf

John Pedro said:


> Matheus Cunha is pretty good. Brazil's Olimpic team facing Chile (winning 3-1 so far, Matheus brace and Antony). The kid is pretty skilled, fast and has got a knack for scoring. Hopes Leipzig gives him more PT or maybe loan him out.




I think he'll get PT when the CL action kicks up. Leipzig play with two forwards and Cunha is one of their 4 options for those two spots. As Werner & Poulsen need to be rotated/get injured, Cunha & Schick will get their chances to show off.


----------



## Ajacied

Oranje U19 drew Italy 2-2 a few days ago. Zirkzee scored one of 'm. The game marked the debut of Maxim Gullit, son of Ruud. Doesn't nearly have his upside, but always fun to watch players like that develop.

Yesterday, Oranje U19 played Portugal. Zirkzee scored a hattrick as they stomped Portugal 4-0. Score was a bit flattered, but Zirkzee was impressive. I liked Gravenberch as well. He didn't even seem to try but is so dominant out there. Sepp van de Berg had a decent game but made an error when he passed it to his goalkeeper a bit too short. Bakker (GK) saved the penalty. A few other high potentials in this squad are Besuijin (Roma) and I like Jurriën Timber, too. I think they lack depth after that. Not sure about their chances for the EC, but their core is very impressive and in form.

Oranje's future is so freaking impressive right now. Especially like the fact they have their fair share of world class talents at #9 and #10 again. Oranje, rather oddly, were lacking in those positions these past few years.


----------



## YNWA14

Yeah I know in the circle I visit that the Timber brothers are rated pretty highly.


----------



## Ajacied

YNWA14 said:


> Yeah I know in the circle I visit that the Timber brothers are rated pretty highly.




Yes, very sound players. I rate Jurriën just a tad more. Quinten is a Nigel de Jong copy when he was younger and I think his versatility will eventually hurt him a bit. Both might crack Ajax in the next few years.

Also, watched Oranje U18 play Mexico on Monday. That team is just insane. I see 10 starters that should make Oranje one day and usually I see no more than 2/3. Despite the score (1-2 loss), I've never seen that team play so dominant before. They put up 25 shots to just 3 from Mexico and especially in the first half, had attacks of with that typical Barcelona/Ajax-DNA. Unuvar scored. I do feel they miss Brobbey, who's out injured. Clear cut favorites to win the EC once again, but still some question marks who will replace Brobbey's dominance up front.


----------



## robertmac43

Ajacied said:


> . I see 10 starters that should make Oranje one day and usually I see no more than 2/3. Despite the score (1-2 loss), I've never seen that team play so dominant before. They put up 25 shots to just 3 from




Is the eleventh player that is not making the team the GK?


----------



## Ajacied

robertmac43 said:


> Is the eleventh player that is not making the team the GK?




Yes.. 

I haven't been impressed by the goalkeepers coming up through the youth ranks so far. It's been a real issue.


----------



## John Pedro

cgf said:


> I think he'll get PT when the CL action kicks up. Leipzig play with two forwards and Cunha is one of their 4 options for those two spots. As Werner & Poulsen need to be rotated/get injured, Cunha & Schick will get their chances to show off.




gonna be fun watching them in the CL. They're my Bundesliga team since they got Nagelsmann


----------



## cgf

John Pedro said:


> gonna be fun watching them in the CL. They're my Bundesliga team since they got Nagelsmann




Yeah, it'll be fun just to watch Nagelsmann learn...even if I feel like their midfield lacks a maestro at the 6. Luckily their group isn't prohibitively tilted against them, so they should be a good watch, even if they don't go deep.

Plus as more & more of those players learn how Nagelsmann wants them to play, the versatility in that roster could be really interesting for Nagelsmann to play around with.


----------



## Ajacied

Gravenberch (17), Lang (20) and Dest (18) just got promoted to Ajax I for the remainder of the season. Hoping to see more of them as they have been very impressive. Dest should be Ajax' first RB option. Lang is seen as Ziyech's successor. Gravenberch might see some minutes if Marin keeps stinking up the place.


----------



## YNWA14

Ajacied said:


> Gravenberch (17), Lang (20) and Dest (18) just got promoted to Ajax I for the remainder of the season. Hoping to see more of them as they have been very impressive. Dest should be Ajax' first RB option. Lang is seen as Ziyech's successor. Gravenberch might see some minutes if Marin keeps stinking up the place.



I'd have let Gravenberch finish the season in Ajax II. They've got plenty of midfielders at the moment and he didn't exactly dominate that league last season. I'm a believer in allowing for a 'big fish small pond' season to build confidence and identity -- not everyone needs it, obviously, but I think it helps more often than not, especially if he won't be getting first team minutes.


----------



## Ajacied

YNWA14 said:


> I'd have let Gravenberch finish the season in Ajax II. They've got plenty of midfielders at the moment and he didn't exactly dominate that league last season. I'm a believer in allowing for a 'big fish small pond' season to build confidence and identity -- not everyone needs it, obviously, but I think it helps more often than not, especially if he won't be getting first team minutes.




Well, with Eiting being so injury prone, Dani de Wit being sold and Marin stinking up the place there's still some room left. Gravenberch could see more minutes than you'd think. Martinez and Alvarez are pretty much the only other CM's and both are often used as defenders as well. Ajax is also more ball dominant than Ajax II, so it would be easier to work on his game, in particular his decision making and transition game, which is still a bit underdeveloped. I also think he still looks a bit uncomfortable in his big body after his grow spurt, but he has all the traits to be a world class player someday. I think this move signals Gravenberch getting a serious look as a sub and perhaps a starter vs weaker opponents/Cup games. Ten Hag is not afraid to play teenagers.

Gravenberch had an interesting 2018/2019 campaign, though. He's learned a lot already. Made his debut for Ajax and became the youngest goalscorer in Ajax history; played an excellent first half of the season in the Keuken Kampioen Divisie and kind of wore himself out the second half - All this at barely 16 years old.


----------



## Ajacied

Ajacied said:


> Gravenberch (17), Lang (20) and Dest (18) just got promoted to Ajax I for the remainder of the season. Hoping to see more of them as they have been very impressive. Dest should be Ajax' first RB option. Lang is seen as Ziyech's successor. Gravenberch might see some minutes if Marin keeps stinking up the place.




.. and Unuvar got to practice with the big boys as well. Kid was still 15 two months ago.


----------



## YNWA14

Unuvar is incredible. Really hope he makes good on his talent as he's got generational potential.


----------



## Ajacied

Just came back from watching Ajax U19 vs Sparta U19. Ajax won 3-1.

Devyn Rensch was excellent. Showed his offensive skills with nice rushes and even saved a goal with a fantastic slide when it was 2-1.
Musampa, his partner at CB, again had a strong game as well. Even scored the 3-1 on a nice header.
Sontje Hansen was great. He and Unuvar started every attack. Hansen was a bit unlucky in his finishing.
Joshua Pynadath (USA) came with a minute or twenty to go and he made a heck of an impression. Very opportunistic player. Dribbles fast, nice control and a nice technique. He can be a bit more efficient using it, but I like what I saw. Kid has potential.

Naci Unuvar was freaking ridiculous. Had two or three absolute beauty passes with the outside of his foot. It's beginning to be his signature. Dribbled his way out of crowded situations effortlessly. Scored a sweet goal and added in an assist. Kid has already outgrown this competition despite being nearly 4 years younger than most. Here is his goal:


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Ajacied said:


> Joshua Pynadath (USA) came with a minute or twenty to go and he made a heck of an impression. Very opportunistic player. Dribbles fast, nice control and a nice technique. He can be a bit more efficient using it, but I like what I saw. Kid has potential.



What I've heard about this guy is that he lacks speed and is very weak. I haven't gotten to see him play yet, but I hear very mixed reviews on him. He always looks good in highlights and every review I've seen says he's a talented player. He's not highly rated by the US Soccer Federation, which isn't saying much, but usually a player at Ajax would be more of a fixture in his age group. Pynadath is routinely one of these kids that gets called to a youth national team camp once or twice a year, and isn't called back for the big tournaments.

A brief comment on a player at PSV. Richie Ledezma put in a dominating performance for Jong PSV yesterday. 2 goals, 1 assist, and all of them were outstanding plays. I think he needs to be a little more consistent, but I suspect he's going to find his way into the first team this season. I'm a big fan of this kid. Very talented attacking midfielder, but he's missed a lot of time in the last year due to injury and his consistency is a problem. He definitely has big talent though.


----------



## Ajacied

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> What I've heard about this guy is that he lacks speed and is very weak. I haven't gotten to see him play yet, but I hear very mixed reviews on him. He always looks good in highlights and every review I've seen says he's a talented player. He's not highly rated by the US Soccer Federation, which isn't saying much, but usually a player at Ajax would be more of a fixture in his age group. Pynadath is routinely one of these kids that gets called to a youth national team camp once or twice a year, and isn't called back for the big tournaments.




He definitely does not lack pace. His first steps are rapid, in fact, but physically he has some steps to take. I am looking forward seeing more of him, but there's a lot of talent at AM and W in the academy, so he needs to grab every opportunity he gets. I doubt he'll sniff Ajax I someday, but his first impression was a good one (never watched him perform live).



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> A brief comment on a player at PSV. Richie Ledezma put in a dominating performance for Jong PSV yesterday. 2 goals, 1 assist, and all of them were outstanding plays. I think he needs to be a little more consistent, but I suspect he's going to find his way into the first team this season. I'm a big fan of this kid. Very talented attacking midfielder, but he's missed a lot of time in the last year due to injury and his consistency is a problem. He definitely has big talent though.




Yeah, he scored two sweet goals yesterday. He was rather invisible in his first four games, but I was surprised how well he played. Just in time as well, as his contract runs out after this season, if I am not mistaken. Don't see him reaching PSV I, though, but I only watched him in games vs Ajax or highlights.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Ajacied said:


> Yeah, he scored two sweet goals yesterday. He was rather invisible in his first four games, but I was surprised how well he played. Just in time as well, as his contract runs out after this season, if I am not mistaken. Don't see him reaching PSV I, though, but I only watched him in games vs Ajax or highlights.




I'd usually defer to you on players playing in Netherlands, but I've seen him play enough to think he's talented enough to reach PSV's first team. His inconsistency might hold him back once he gets to the first team, but I think he's good enough to get to the first team. They are also paying him a pretty big salary. I think the reason his contract expires at the end of the season is due to the salary differences for non-EU players once they reach age 20. Don't quote me on the exact rule, but thats what I've seen. I don't suspect it's because they want to let his contract run down. He only signed in January, and I don't think they are bringing him in on a non-EU salary for only a 1 and a half year contract. That wouldn't make any sense.


----------



## John Pedro

Same age group as Reinier but nowhere close the same hype. Can play as a winger or striker, great height at his age at 1,86cm. Fast, strong, and great dribbling.


----------



## John Pedro

Probably gonna see them together again in the u17 world cup next month. Let's see if Vasco will allow him to play, though as he's become a starter for them and they need all the help they could get.


----------



## YNWA14

Jonathan David with another goal this weekend. He is the most productive teenager in the top 10 leagues of Europe at the moment (5 goals, 2 assists in 6 games) he's tied with Sancho (2 goals, 5 assists in 4 games) but I guess they ranked David higher because of more goals. Still, pretty impressive. For reference at 19 Osimhen had 20 goals and 4 assists across 36 games last season for Charleroi in the same league and currently sits at 5 goals in 5 games for Lille.


----------



## cgf

Have any of y'all watched Ajax II enough to have a strong opinion about Kühn and how he's been progressing since the transfer?


----------



## Ajacied

I watch him plenty.

Kuhn is mentioned in my prospect list.



> *2000*
> 1) Juan Familia Castillo LM/LB - 83C – Ajax/HOL
> 2) Orkün Kokcü AM - 83C - Feyenoord/HOL (TUR)
> 3) Sergino Dest LB/LM – 81C – Ajax/HOL (USA)
> 4) Kik Pierie LB/CB – 80C – Ajax/HOL
> *5) Nicolas Kühn ST – 83D – Ajax/GER*
> 6) Kjell Scherper GK – 83D – Ajax/HOL
> 7) Ludovit Reis DM - 79B - Barcelona/HOL
> 8) Jeremie Frimpomg - 80C - RWB/RM - Manchester City/HOL
> 9) Victor Jensen AM – 80C - Ajax/DEN
> 10) Mitchell Bakker LB - 77C – PSG/HOL
> 11) Xavier Mbuyamba CB - 78C - Barcelona/HOL
> 12) Zakaria Aboukhal – W/AM – 79C – AZ/HOL
> 13) Achraf El Bouchataoui AM - 78C – Feyenoord/HOL
> 14) Lutsharel Geertruida CB – 74C – Feyenoord/HOL
> 15) Jasper Schendelaar GK – 74C – AZ/HO




He has high upside (83), but the chance of realizing his upside right now is quite low (D). Mostly because Ajax wants him to develop into a RW, much like Ziyech is right now, and he struggles to perform on a consistent night there. He just doesn't have the one on one skills. His main qualities are finishing in and outside the box (deadly low and accurate shot) and his technique; best suited at ST, #10 or a false 9. But the Ajax school wants you to understand multiple positions and you can tell he's not always comfortable there. With strikers Lassina Traoré (#1 Ajax II), Danilo (#2 Ajax II) and also Brobbey (#1 Ajax U19) coming up, it kind of leaves Kühn with no choice but to either focus on a different position or to let Ajax loan him out. I do expect Traoré to join Ajax I shortly to replace Dolberg, so there should be opportunities this season. 

I watched Kühn play Oranje U19 just recently. Immediately looked more dangerous there than he has for Ajax. Scored the winner, too.


----------



## cgf

Ajacied said:


> I watch him plenty.
> 
> Kuhn is mentioned in my prospect list.
> 
> 
> 
> He has high upside (83), but the chance of realizing his upside right now is quite low (D). Mostly because Ajax wants him to develop into a RW, much like Ziyech is right now, and he struggles to be perform on a consistent night there. He just doesn't have the one on one skills. His main qualities are finishing in and outside the box (deadly low and accurate shot) and his technique; best suited at ST, #10 or a false 9. But the Ajax school wants you to understand multiple positions and you can tell he's not always comfortable there. With strikers Lassina Traoré (#1 Ajax II), Danilo (#2 Ajax II) and also Brobbey (#1 Ajax U19) coming up, it kind of leaves Kühn with no choice but to either focus on a different position or to let Ajax loan him out. I do expect Traoré to join Ajax I shortly to replace Dolberg, so there should be opportunities this season.
> 
> I watched Kühn play Oranje U19 just recently. Immediately looked more dangerous there than he has for Ajax. Scored the winner, too.




That match & your discussion of Ajax made me curious...and yeah, planting him out wide is the least effective use of his skillset. He's been really crafty in tight spaces for the NTs he's been a part of and he's quick, but his pure pace isn't that special and he's much more dangerous in those tighter space down the middle, than he is delivering balls from the wide areas.

In hindsight, biding his time in Salzberg while waiting for Nagelsmann to takeover RB may have turned out to have been the better move for his career. Hopefully Ajax finds him a good loan if he's not allowed to take on a more central role when Traore gets promoted.


----------



## AB13

Bukayo Saka is a very special player, just dominated Frankfurt completely, creating so many chances and scoring a goal, along with 2 assists. Just turned 18 only 2 weeks ago. Lovely to see other Hale End graduates play very well too, especially Willock.


----------



## ecemleafs

Ajacied said:


> Didn't see that one coming by. Good move by him though. City is a graveyard for young talents. The sooner he leaves, the better and Celtic seems like a great place to take the next step. Frimpong was used as a wingback for City, but he has all the offensive traits to be a successful winger. It just depends on the formation. He's a copy of Castillo, who just joined Ajax from Chelsea, they just play on opposite sides.
> 
> I do think Frimpong was a greater talent at 16. He hasn't been as impressive since.



frimpong made his debut today for celtic in the cup. he was MOTM in a 5-0 celtic win. he has apparently been really impressive in training.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Moukoko has 15 goals in 7 league games. They can't possibly have him play more than another season in the U-19's. He's going to be a first team player at 16. I would probably wait until he turns 16 in November 2020 rather than making him play two U-19 seasons, but we'll wait to see what the hierarchy decide.


----------



## phisherman

Flores is Mexican/Canadian.


----------



## John Pedro




----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


>




I told you keep an eye out for him  he looks promising.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I told you keep an eye out for him  he looks promising.




Heinze, Velez's coach, also very promising. Could be the next Gallardo.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> Heinze, Velez's coach, also very promising. Could be the next Gallardo.



Yup its impressive what he's doing with Velez.


----------



## Cassano




----------



## Ajacied

Ajacied said:


> Oranje U19 drew Italy 2-2 a few days ago. Zirkzee scored one of 'm. The game marked the debut of Maxim Gullit, son of Ruud. Doesn't nearly have his upside, but always fun to watch players like that develop.
> 
> Yesterday, Oranje U19 played Portugal. Zirkzee scored a hattrick as they stomped Portugal 4-0. Score was a bit flattered, but Zirkzee was impressive. I liked Gravenberch as well. He didn't even seem to try but is so dominant out there. Sepp van de Berg had a decent game but made an error when he passed it to his goalkeeper a bit too short. Bakker (GK) saved the penalty. A few other high potentials in this squad are Besuijin (Roma) and I like Jurriën Timber, too. I think they lack depth after that. Not sure about their chances for the EC, but their core is very impressive and in form.
> 
> Oranje's future is so freaking impressive right now. Especially like the fact they have their fair share of world class talents at #9 and #10 again. Oranje, rather oddly, were lacking in those positions these past few years.




EC U19 qualifiers continued yesterday. Zirkzee had another goal + assist. Redan also added in 2 goals and 2 assists. Redan now contributes on the stats sheet once every 33 minutes this entire season.


----------



## John Pedro




----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


>




That’s a funny looking Argentinian!


----------



## JimboA

The Guardian’s annual list (2002 borns). Any omissions? Anyone you particularly like? I recognized only six players, so I’m gonna have step my game up...

Next Generation 2019: 60 of the best young talents in world football

The only trivia I have (and considering this is a hockey forum) is that Tim Prica is a cousin of Leafs prospect Pierre Engvall.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

JimboA said:


> The Guardian’s annual list (2002 borns). Any omissions? Anyone you particularly like? I recognized only six players, so I’m gonna have step my game up...
> 
> Next Generation 2019: 60 of the best young talents in world football
> 
> The only trivia I have (and considering this is a hockey forum) is that Tim Prica is a cousin of Leafs prospect Pierre Engvall.



Zeballos should be on that list rather easily.


----------



## phisherman

Next Generation 2019: 20 of the best talents at Premier League clubs

This is the one for the Prem teams.

Arsenal should sign the new Aaron Ramsey.


----------



## Ajacied

JimboA said:


> The Guardian’s annual list (2002 borns). Any omissions? Anyone you particularly like? I recognized only six players, so I’m gonna have step my game up...
> 
> Next Generation 2019: 60 of the best young talents in world football
> 
> The only trivia I have (and considering this is a hockey forum) is that Tim Prica is a cousin of Leafs prospect Pierre Engvall.




I can only speak for the Dutch. Gravenberch and Ihattaren are no brainers, but I expected Brobbey to be included as well. I think his transition to professional football will be very tough on him, but few strikers have dominated youth football as he has. I doubt he'll reach his upside though. I actually think he'll flop.

Funny that Hoogewerf is mentioned in the Premier League list. He's 11th on my 2002 prospect list. Those guys ahead of him wouldn't have looked out of place at all, either; Taylor (Ajax), Salah-Eddine (Ajax), Maatsen (Chelsea), Braaf (City), Bogarde (Hoffenheim), Hansen (Ajax) and Hoever (Liverpool).


----------



## YNWA14

JimboA said:


> The Guardian’s annual list (2002 borns). Any omissions? Anyone you particularly like? I recognized only six players, so I’m gonna have step my game up...
> 
> Next Generation 2019: 60 of the best young talents in world football
> 
> The only trivia I have (and considering this is a hockey forum) is that Tim Prica is a cousin of Leafs prospect Pierre Engvall.



A little surprised that Noni Madueke isn't on the list for the English; he always impressed me most of the '02 English crop when I've seen them.


----------



## Ajacied

Ajacied said:


> EC U19 qualifiers continued yesterday. Zirkzee had another goal + assist. Redan also added in 2 goals and 2 assists. Redan now contributes on the stats sheet once every 33 minutes this entire season.




Heh.. Redan with another 2 goals + 2 assists game vs Latvia. He now has 4 goals and 4 assists in his past two games. It were the Feyenoord talents who completed the stats sheet, with Summerville (hattrick), Azarkan (2G + 1A) and Burger (1G). Zirkzee didn't play this one.

Unuvar and Oranje U18 currently play vs Belgium U18.


----------



## YNWA14

Redan has been lighting it up this season after a pretty disappointing domestic season last year. It'll be interesting to see how he and Zirkzee develop and who ends up on top of the two...if either of them make it.


----------



## Ajacied

I really have no clue who will come out on top from that entire age group ('01/02); Redan, Zirkzee, Boadu, Braaf, Brobbey, Hansen and Hoogewerf, but it looks promising. If you put a gun to my head I'd say Zirkzee just because he has a rare combination of skills and size. In terms of sheer skill, I like Hansen and Redan a lot. Boadu is the safest bet, but he's also the furthest in his development. Then again, I could see a lot of them bust into nobody's as well.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

As to the two Americans on the list, Reyna belongs on the listing. Busio does not. Stat-watching, playing time watching. Thats what that is. There are a remarkable amount of people who've watched a lot of Busio who don't like how he plays. I don't think it's a coincidence. Damian Las, a goalkeeper at Fulham, should've been named instead. But 2002 is a terrible generation for the USA. The worst age group in years. I can't imagine we have two of the 60 best players in the world for that age group.

There are three US-eligible players on the list who play international football for other teams, Efrain Alvarez, Malik Tillman and Yunus Musah. I don't know much about Musah. I've read Tillman is better than his brother and more of a central midfielder than an attacking midfielder that his brother is. Alvarez is a #10. Great technically and creative. Fitness is a big problem, and his work-rate is pretty terrible. Talented kid, but he needs to improve his professionalism, and thats not to say he's a bad kid in the dressing room or anything like that, but professional athletes need to put work into areas that the average person in society does not need to.


----------



## YNWA14

Speaking of Madueke:



Really nice goal; he also scored a bicycle kick in September for England. Don't know too much about the entire 02 English crop but he's the best I've seen from them.


----------



## John Pedro

He's pretty similar to Casemiro indeed. His passing needs work, but the team changed coach to one that loves possession so he'll be touching the ball a lot from now on. He doesn't take many risks in his passing, though. Very mature for his age and is amazing doing the dirty work.


----------



## John Pedro

Refreshing to see a 17y old kid doing tricks like this. Nowadays players are all about pace, there very few creative ones like Ronaldinho used to be. Talles is a very creative dribbler although I don't expect him to be like Ronaldinho or anything close to that, it's nice to see it hasn't completely died out.


----------



## John Pedro

Reinier for the win at the 90min


----------



## AB13

Arsenal got a pretty good player!


----------



## Jersey Fresh

West Ham signed Mipo Odubeko (17) from United. Supposed to be pretty well rated, scored 35 for Unitrd youth teams last season.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Richie Ledezma made the bench for PSV today for the first time. Very talented 19 year old American CAM. Hopefully he gets his debut soon.


----------



## ecemleafs

Jeremie frimpong called up to dutch u20 team for first time. Hes been very impressive for celtic in the matches hes played this year. He probably has eligibility for Ghana and england as well.


----------



## John Pedro

Antony has cooled off a lot since his hot start and has been pretty wasteful, pretty poor finishing that has haunted his end product but last night he scored a beauty and had an assist. 2 goals and 5 assist in 23 games, should've way more with better finishing. He must stay put and have a big next season in Brazil before going to Europe, playing in the Libertadores gonna be huge for him.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Teams are going crazy these days. An MLS team signed a 14 year old goalkeeper to a first team contract. This kid is 23 days older than Freddy Adu when he signed in MLS.

And I recently saw this kid play. He's good for a 14 year old goalkeeper in the United States. He's not a prodigy. I feel like it's setting this kid up for failure. If someone is that far away from impacting your team, you shouldn't be paying them. This kid might not even be old enough to suit up for the first team by the time his contract is over.


----------



## robertmac43

For Canadian fans: The CPL has shortlisted it's 3 U-21 players of the year for the inaugural season. Here are my thoughts - slight bias towards Borges as I have season tickets to Forge.... 

*Forge FC - Tristian Borges*: Talented MF/Winger. Has a powerful left foot, maintains possession well and can pick out a good ball. He won the golden boot and is also up for CPL player of the year, so he is the logical choice to take home U-21 player of the year as well. Borges also had the most tackles and key passes per game out of all MF's. Would not be surprised to see this guy get a National Team call up in the near future. 

*Terran Campbell - Pacific FC*: Powerful striker with great work ethic. Really came alive in the second half of the season scoring 11 goals in total. Could have easily been the golden boot winner had he started the season off a little better. Campbell is not all strength and work ethic, he has good attacking awareness, makes good runs and always finds himself in the right place at the right time,

*Diyaeddine Abzi - York 9:* Abzi was easily the best FB in the CPL this year. He has speed for days and kept the leagues best wingers at bay for most of the season. His offense was suspect at the start of the season but by August Abzi looked great moving forward. He supplies good supporting runs and has a knack for picking out a good cross. Abzi is a graduate of Blainville which is awesome to see. He is a sign that the Canadian Soccer pipeline is more alive than ever.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

NYCFC transfers Joe Scally to Gladbach for 2M base fee with add on’s that should reach 7M.

The deal can’t be completed until a year from now when he turns 18, but it’s another smart transfer for Eberl. This kid is an athletic terror of a RB. He might move inside to CB eventually. Excellent defender, as well. If there’s any complaint, his touch and passing can be spotty. Supposedly this deal had been in the workings for about a year, and Gladbach was insistent on getting a deal get done to the point NYCFC thought it was too much money to refuse.


----------



## bluesfan94

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> NYCFC transfers Joe Scally to Gladbach for 2M base fee with add on’s that should reach 7M.
> 
> The deal can’t be completed until a year from now when he turns 18, but it’s another smart transfer for Eberl. This kid is an athletic terror of a RB. He might move inside to CB eventually. Excellent defender, as well. If there’s any complaint, his touch and passing can be spotty. Supposedly this deal had been in the workings for about a year, and Gladbach was insistent on getting a deal get done to the point NYCFC thought it was too much money to refuse.



I love this. Gladbach developing Americans is almost as nice as Ajax doing so.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

JimboA said:


> The Guardian’s annual list (2002 borns). Any omissions? Anyone you particularly like? I recognized only six players, so I’m gonna have step my game up...
> 
> Next Generation 2019: 60 of the best young talents in world football
> 
> The only trivia I have (and considering this is a hockey forum) is that Tim Prica is a cousin of Leafs prospect Pierre Engvall.




Can't take that list seriously when Troy Parrott isn't on it.


----------



## cgf

Adeyemi being on that list is a pretty bad look; as his physical advantages simply aren't special enough to carry him to the top level without the rest of his game making huge progress, despite the early success he's enjoyed at lower levels. 

Samardzic is a huge talent and definitely deserves his spot.

But...even though I like Malik a lot more than I did his brother...if I was going to nominate a 2nd german 2002er, I'd have suggested Mehmet Can Aydin, Mika Schroers or David Hummel before Tillman. Haven't seen enough of him this year to say if he's put himself into that tier and he's a good talent in his own -- so this isn't anywhere near as bad as including Adeyemi -- but those three are simply more special & have higher realistic-ceilings.


----------



## JimboA

I know I'm a biased Swede but I still think Dejan Kulusevski (Atalanta, on loan at Parma) deserves a mention in this thread. The 19-year-old winger has 3 goals and 5 assists so far in Serie A and has a fantastic workrate. He seems to have good mental abilities and is not afraid to "take charge". Creates a lot of chances.


----------



## YNWA14

Speaking of Kulusevski:



Pretty neat. These are only league stats I believe, and only Sancho/Kulusevski play in top 5 leagues.


----------



## robertmac43

YNWA14 said:


> Speaking of Kulusevski:
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty neat. These are only league stats I believe, and only Sancho/Kulusevski play in top 5 leagues.





Really cool to see a Canadian flag on the list. David representing us well!


----------



## gary69

Evilo is absent, but does anybody else have an opinion on PSG's attacker Arnaud Kalimuendo, who turns 18 in a couple of months. Scored a hat trick against Real Madrid in the Youth CL yesterday. Based on that match, seems like a stocky guy with a good movement, who has knack on being in the right spot and then good enough finishing. Has sat on the PSG bench a few times in Ligue1, but hasn't played any minutes yet.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon




----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

The best young American prospect, Moses Nyeman, is trialing at Dortmund during the MLS offseason.

Terrific news. I hope we sign him in two years. He’s not yet old enough to transfer to Dortmund yet due to a lack of a European passport. He’s going to play for DC United for a few seasons. He recently signed a pro deal with them. And great scouting by our scouts to bring him in for a trial.


----------



## John Pedro

Antony in what could've been his last match at home for Sao Paulo had a great night and helped the team qualify to Libertadores group stage. 4 goals and 6 assist in Brasileirao.


----------



## YNWA14

Youssoufa Moukoko with 2 goals so far today in the Youth CL. Really nice strike that one though.


----------



## JimboA

Big game from Kulusevski vs. Napoli


----------



## YNWA14

JimboA said:


> Big game from Kulusevski vs. Napoli




Yep...he’s been slept on tbh haven’t heard much hype about him at all despite his age and performances. Maybe because he plays in Italy but kid’s got skills.


----------



## JimboA

YNWA14 said:


> Yep...he’s been slept on tbh haven’t heard much hype about him at all despite his age and performances. Maybe because he plays in Italy but kid’s got skills.



I think it's a combination of a couple of things. He left for Italy at age 16 so he never played in Allsvenskan, meaning no hype from the Swedes. Then his breakthrough came as a loanee, where Parma fans know that they don't own him and Atalanta fans know that he's not part of their future.

I saw some speculation about an agreement with Inter, but who knows really.


----------



## YNWA14

Ihattaren with yet another banger. Holy moly this kid at 17 is unreal.



So happy he's declared for the Netherlands.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

YNWA14 said:


> Ihattaren with yet another banger. Holy moly this kid at 17 is unreal.
> 
> 
> 
> So happy he's declared for the Netherlands.





Do you think PSV would sell him this summer? We are going to need a Sancho replacement, and I’d rather someone like this than some of the names that have been talked about. Can Ihattaren effectively play RW or does he need to play CAM?


----------



## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Do you think PSV would sell him this summer? We are going to need a Sancho replacement, and I’d rather someone like this than some of the names that have been talked about. Can Ihattaren effectively play RW or does he need to play CAM?



He can play across the front but is best at CAM he has great passing and vision for his age. That said I doubt PSV would be willing to move him on right now. They’ll likely build their team around him for the next 2 years unless he forces a move.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I think he'll get his debut a year from now after he turns 16. There's a rule that you can't play in the Bundesliga until you're 17, but exceptions have been made, and I suspect one will be made for Moukoko.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Reyna and Pherai are participating in the Dortmund winter training camp. I doubt Pherai breaks through because we've gotten away from using youth and its now harder for them to break through. But those who watch the U19's regularly think Reyna has as good of a chance to make it as anyone we've had in years. Based on what I've seen of Reyna, he's made big improvements in the last year, and will probably turn into a Dortmund player.


----------



## Savant

Yasser Larouci (possibly?) switching from Algeria to France


----------



## Live in the Now

He's really good and Klopp should use him a bit more. Wouldn't be too surprising if he started for that team.


----------



## Savant

Live in the Now said:


> He's really good and Klopp should use him a bit more. Wouldn't be too surprising if he started for that team.



Hard to argue he isn’t 2nd choice LB. Milner can’t really do a shift back there anymore


----------



## YNWA14

In somewhat under the radar news unsurprisingly Naci Unuvar became the youngest ever Ajax goalscorer yesterday. It was a late penalty, but noteworthy all the same.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Nice goal by Perez. Captaining the team despite being one of the younger guys. In the u23. 

Can’t wait to see him with the other young defenders for Argentina on the first team. They may be able to actually defend! Lol


----------



## ecemleafs

Christopher jullien with his wee boy karamoko dembele on the pitch today...


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Not to be outdone by Martinez here's Perez playing keeper. 2 of the best right now for Argentina.


----------



## robertmac43

The Scouted Football Handbook: Annual Subscription

I don't know if anyone has heard of or already reads these guys stuff. It's really good and they just came out with a new year subscription for the next 4 issues. I highly recommend!


----------



## AB13

Saint Etienne in all competitions with and without William Saliba since September 2018, in games where Saliba has been 17 and 18.

- Win percentage 

with Saliba : 61%, without Saliba : 36%

- Goals conceded per game

With Saliba : 0.9, without Saliba 1.6

- Clean Sheet percentage

with Saliba: 52%, without Saliba :18%

The man might be the best CB prospect in the world.


----------



## Savant

Harvey Elliott. Liverpool’s blue chip prospect. Younger than Ansu Fati


----------



## Cassano

AB13 said:


> Saint Etienne in all competitions with and without William Saliba since September 2018, in games where Saliba has been 17 and 18.
> 
> - Win percentage
> 
> with Saliba : 61%, without Saliba : 36%
> 
> - Goals conceded per game
> 
> With Saliba : 0.9, without Saliba 1.6
> 
> - Clean Sheet percentage
> 
> with Saliba: 52%, without Saliba :18%
> 
> The man might be the best CB prospect in the world.



There's a reason St. Etienne pushed for him to be loaned back for the year. It's like a VvD to Liverpool transformation whenever he plays for them.


----------



## AB13

Cassano said:


> There's a reason St. Etienne pushed for him to be loaned back for the year. It's like a VvD to Liverpool transformation whenever he plays for them.




Stylistically, he is very similar to Van Dijk too. Incredibly physically imposing, smart, composed and great on the ball. He could be the complete CB really.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Down 1-0 at the half Argentina come back and win with 4 goals in the 2nd half. Argentina playing very well in all age groups. Nice to see. Zaracho with a nice finish impressed by Tagoni.

All this and they were missing their top 2 players in Mac allister and Perez. Since they already qualified.


----------



## Cassano

ESR with goal and assist for Huddersfield...


----------



## AB13

Cassano said:


> ESR with goal and assist for Huddersfield...




His stats today are insane, besides the goal and assist, he had the most succesfull dribbles on the pitch (5), the most key passes in the game (3) and a 92% pass accuracy. The man is the Brexit Kevin De Bruyne.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Huge news from an American perspective. This guy is one of the best American youngsters out there. From the list I made in June, I ranked him 3rd, and he's only moved up from there. He has probably the highest floor of any young American player there is who hasn't yet broken through. Supreme LB talent.

All the big European clubs are aware of him. Recently, we've seen a lot of Americans sign in Germany, so the top clubs in Germany seem like candidates. The two big Dutch clubs have done very well in the American market of late, so they might be candidates. I think the top candidate might be FC Porto. His older brother signed there this summer, and I think Porto did that to lay the groundwork to sign Jonathan. He can't sign in Europe until September of 2021. He has dual-nationality, so the big Mexican clubs will try to lure him to Mexico, but I think he's probably a little too good to not sign in Europe leaving FC Dallas, by far the top academy in the USA.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Gio Reyna's first goal for Dortmund. He becomes the youngest scorer in German Cup history. I've seen this guy play a lot. I've never seen him play better than he did today. He completely dominated when he was subbed in. It was incredible how much he elevated his game today. He's also done well in his first few appearances prior to today. The kid looks like a great prospect right now. Hopefully he keeps developing.


----------



## Savant

Neco Williams has been (arguably) Man of the Match in every Senior Game that he has played this season and he has more assists than AWB in that timespan. Would not be shocked if he is (rightfully) on the Wales roster at the Euros. Really great player. Liverpool does not need to spend to get another RB in.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Savant said:


> Harvey Elliott. Liverpool’s blue chip prospect. Younger than Ansu Fati
> https://twitter.com/lfcdaytrippers/status/1222615312383848449?s=21




What happened to Ben Woodburn?


----------



## Savant

Jersey Fresh said:


> What happened to Ben Woodburn?



Injuries and bad loan spells. It happens.


----------



## Savant

Savant said:


> Injuries and bad loan spells. It happens.



Also what hurt Woodburn is that he is kinda of a tweener. Doesn’t really have a true position.


----------



## AB13

Another goal and assist for Alexander Isak, 12 goals in his last 12 games now. The man is blossoming into a real star, good for swedish football.


----------



## Pensionsraddare

AB13 said:


> Another goal and assist for Alexander Isak, 12 goals in his last 12 games now. The man is blossoming into a real star, good for swedish football.




We are absolutely stacked with Isak/Quaison/Kulusevski. Behind them we have good options in Forsberg and Claesson. This generation might be better than 94.


----------



## Eye of Ra

and yet there is no hype about this players outside of sweden. probaly becuse they are from sweden. for some weird reason norway prospects gets hyped but not swedish prospects.

do not forget svanberg btw, doing great in serie a.


----------



## AB13

Pensionsraddare said:


> We are absolutely stacked with Isak/Quaison/Kulusevski. Behind them we have good options in Forsberg and Claesson. This generation might be better than 94.




The defense looks like it will continue to be solid going forward too, Lindelöf and Augustinsson are two of our top 3 best players at the moment probably and only 25. The coaching is great as well, exited for the future.


----------



## AB13

Eye of Ra said:


> and yet there is no hype about this players outside of sweden. probaly becuse they are from sweden. for some weird reason norway prospects gets hyped but not swedish prospects.
> 
> do not forget svanberg btw, doing great in serie a.




Norway have good high end talent but in terms of depth, they don't look nearly as good as us yet. I expect us to keep being better than them for the foreseeable future, despite Ödegaard, Håland, Berge and Ajer being a great young core.


----------



## Pensionsraddare

Eye of Ra said:


> and yet there is no hype about this players outside of sweden. probaly becuse they are from sweden. for some weird reason norway prospects gets hyped but not swedish prospects.
> 
> do not forget svanberg btw, doing great in serie a.




You are right and i know exactly why. There are some bad blood against Sweden for keeping Italy out of the World Cup and kicking Germany out of the tournament after the group stage. People wants to see the biggest countries compete on the biggest stage and Sweden prevented that. That’s why.

Not forgetting Svanberg. He’s more of a central midfielder though. We have him and Kris Olsson there. That is a great pair for the future.



AB13 said:


> The defense looks like it will continue to be solid going forward too, Lindelöf and Augustinsson are two of our top 3 best players at the moment probably and only 25. The coaching is great as well, exited for the future.




Agree. Especially Lindelöf playing way better for the nationalteam than he is doing for Man United. Janne is a way better coach than Ole.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Having secured the trophy they played without a couple of their stars. Lost to Brazil but still celebrated. Crazy the amount of talent they could've had. Cant wait to see most of this group in the Olympics and maybe copa?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I always liked Isak’s game, but the sense the team put out there was attitude issues/off field problems were the reason he didn’t break through at Dortmund. 

We do possess a buyback option, so in a few years when Haaland is sold, maybe we can exercise that option.


----------



## JimboA

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I always liked Isak’s game, but the sense the team put out there was attitude issues/off field problems were the reason he didn’t break through at Dortmund.



The transfer from AIK to Dortmund was very shady and was part of an investigative TV-program, which can be seen here with English subtitles. The Isak transfer is covered around 10:50 - 17:30:

New York Festivals - 2018 World's Best Television & Films™ Winners

It wouldn't surprise me at all if there's been some off field issues, but Isak himself always struck me as a reserved and humble person. But who knows really


----------



## YNWA14

Since returning from bereavement Jonathan David has 6 goals and 2 assists in 7 games for Gent. Really interested to see where he ends up this summer I can't see him staying in Belgium. Secretly (or not so secretly) really want Liverpool to take a long hard look there. Think he fits the profile of what they would look for in a player really well.


----------



## SJSharks72

YNWA14 said:


> Since returning from bereavement Jonathan David has 6 goals and 2 assists in 7 games for Gent. Really interested to see where he ends up this summer I can't see him staying in Belgium. Secretly (or not so secretly) really want Liverpool to take a long hard look there. Think he fits the profile of what they would look for in a player really well.



I think he should stay in Belgium another season and then move to Germany/Italy/Spain


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> I think he should stay in Belgium another season and then move to Germany/Italy/Spain



Why not an MLS or epl team? I hear theyre great at player development.


----------



## SJSharks72

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Why not an MLS or epl team? I hear theyre great at player development.



I mean MLS fine EPL is awful at development. Especially for a player like him.


----------



## YNWA14

SJSharks39 said:


> I mean MLS fine EPL is awful at development. Especially for a player like him.



I don’t think it’s a matter of EPL being awful at development as much as it is just not the best environment to develop. Too much pressure and the intensity of the league/schedule makes it difficult to manage. Only the top prospects really flourish there but I mean plenty of elite players have come from the EPL and developed there.

I actually think David would be fine. He’s very Aguero-like.


----------



## SJSharks72

YNWA14 said:


> I don’t think it’s a matter of EPL being awful at development as much as it is just not the best environment to develop. Too much pressure and the intensity of the league/schedule makes it difficult to manage. Only the top prospects really flourish there but I mean plenty of elite players have come from the EPL and developed there.
> 
> I actually think David would be fine. He’s very Aguero-like.



Jadon Sancho couldn’t get playing time in England and immediately after he left, he went on a tear in Germany. England is bad for young players.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> Jadon Sancho couldn’t get playing time in England and immediately after he left, he went on a tear in Germany. England is bad for young players.



Yup as is MLS


----------



## bluesfan94

SJSharks39 said:


> Jadon Sancho couldn’t get playing time in England and immediately after he left, he went on a tear in Germany. England is bad for young players.



I mean, let's be clear. He couldn't get playing time at peak Man City. He also did not immediately go on a tear. In his first year there he made 12 first team appearances, scoring one goal and registering 4 assists (which is a decent number). Of that, only one assist came prior to April. 

Now, with regards to David, peak Liverpool obviously has the same starting caliber players, but the backups aren't as good.


----------



## SJSharks72

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Yup as is MLS



At least they get playing time. From there it’s up to the player to sink or swim.


bluesfan94 said:


> I mean, let's be clear. He couldn't get playing time at peak Man City. He also did not immediately go on a tear. In his first year there he made 12 first team appearances, scoring one goal and registering 4 assists (which is a decent number). Of that, only one assist came prior to April.
> 
> Now, with regards to David, peak Liverpool obviously has the same starting caliber players, but the backups aren't as good.



Let’s also be clear that that’s half a season. If I’m remembering right, Sancho came in January and was also like 17-18. That’s really good for a young guy in a new country playing with a new team.

Liverpool barely rest their guys anyway and they got the likes of Origi and AOC along with lots of real high potential young guys.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> *At least they get playing time. From there it’s up to the player to sink or swim.*
> 
> Let’s also be clear that that’s half a season. If I’m remembering right, Sancho came in January and was also like 17-18. That’s really good for a young guy in a new country playing with a new team.
> 
> Liverpool barely rest their guys anyway and they got the likes of Origi and AOC along with lots of real high potential young guys.




THat;s not everything when it comes to development. Hell sometimes less is more.


----------



## SJSharks72

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> THat;s not everything when it comes to development. Hell sometimes less is more.



I do think the MLS is perfect for mid tier players. Maybe not the players that are meant to be world class but for the mid tier like Barco , the MLS is a great option.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> I do think the MLS is perfect for mid tier players. Maybe not the players that are meant to be world class but for the mid tier like Barco , the MLS is a great option.



Well played mate


----------



## bluesfan94

SJSharks39 said:


> Let’s also be clear that that’s half a season. If I’m remembering right, Sancho came in January and was also like 17-18. That’s really good for a young guy in a new country playing with a new team.



You’re not remembering right. He signed in August I believe. 

fair point on origi not playing a ton but AOC has been playing midfield. David could get time. Not a ton at first, but still.


----------



## SJSharks72

bluesfan94 said:


> You’re not remembering right. He signed in August I believe.
> 
> fair point on origi not playing a ton but AOC has been playing midfield. David could get time. Not a ton at first, but still.



You are correct he signed August 31. Don’t know why I thought he signed in January. Kid was still like 16 going to a new country and a new team. You can’t expect him to jump into the first team right away.


----------



## YNWA14

SJSharks39 said:


> You are correct he signed August 31. Don’t know why I thought he signed in January. Kid was still like 16 going to a new country and a new team. You can’t expect him to jump into the first team right away.



Right but he should be expected to break into an historic City’s XI at the same time?


----------



## SJSharks72

YNWA14 said:


> Right but he should be expected to break into an historic City’s XI at the same time?



David should be expected to break into a team that is on the best run in PL history? We should all remember this is what the original conversation was about.


----------



## bluesfan94

SJSharks39 said:


> You are correct he signed August 31. Don’t know why I thought he signed in January. Kid was still like 16 going to a new country and a new team. You can’t expect him to jump into the first team right away.



I think he agreed to sign earlier in the year, so that might be it. 

I agree, but I also don't expect that same kid to be getting play time with City. David will be somewhat older, but no matter where he goes, unless he stays, he will be going to a new team and likely a new country. I guess my point is that I don't think the EPL is the best developmental league, but 1) if he's good enough, he will get time except at some of the most elite teams; and 2) Sancho isn't the best counterpoint


----------



## SJSharks72

bluesfan94 said:


> I think he agreed to sign earlier in the year, so that might be it.
> 
> I agree, but I also don't expect that same kid to be getting play time with City. David will be somewhat older, but no matter where he goes, unless he stays, he will be going to a new team and likely a new country. I guess my point is that I don't think the EPL is the best developmental league, but 1) if he's good enough, he will get time except at some of the most elite teams; and 2) Sancho isn't the best counterpoint



1) we are talking about Liverpool 2) Sancho is a great example when comparing David going to Liverpool.


----------



## bluesfan94

SJSharks39 said:


> 1) we are talking about Liverpool 2) Sancho is a great example when comparing David going to Liverpool.



1) Liverpool is not nearly as deep as City; 2) no, he still isn't, because your point is that Sancho wasn't able to break into City but went to Dortmund and played well. This is not a good point because A) Sancho was not able to break into Dortmund immediately either, it took a whole year and we cannot say what would have happened had he stayed at City; B) Sancho was significantly younger, making it more unlikely he could break into a first team in a league that values physicality; and C) City is and was much deeper at Sancho's position than Liverpool at David's


----------



## SJSharks72

bluesfan94 said:


> 1) Liverpool is not nearly as deep as City; 2) no, he still isn't, because your point is that Sancho wasn't able to break into City but went to Dortmund and played well. This is not a good point because A) Sancho was not able to break into Dortmund immediately either, it took a whole year and we cannot say what would have happened had he stayed at City; B) Sancho was significantly younger, making it more unlikely he could break into a first team in a league that values physicality; and C) City is and was much deeper at Sancho's position than Liverpool at David's



City has immense depth where most of their bench would start for most teams in the world. Liverpool might not have that but they still have Origi, Shaqiri (who’s better than David whether Canada fans want to admit it or not), AOC, and a bunch of young guys that very well could be as good as David. He’s a good player and one of the best Canada has produced in a while and he might even be world class at some point but it’s not like he’s going to become Messi, Ronaldo, or even Aguero.


----------



## Cassano

He would probably get Minamino type minutes with Liverpool to start. But I think he is better than Shaqiri, who has been pretty poor this season. It wouldn't take him too long to start making more appearances I think.


----------



## SJSharks72

Cassano said:


> He would probably get Minamino type minutes with Liverpool to start. But I think he is better than Shaqiri, who has been pretty poor this season. It wouldn't take him too long to start making more appearances I think.



He’s not better than Shaqiri. He’s younger. He’s not better.


----------



## YNWA14

I thought the original conversation started from saying the PL teams were not good at developing talent.

Either way I don't think Sancho and David are comparable.


SJSharks39 said:


> He’s not better than Shaqiri. He’s younger. He’s not better.



He's better, and younger as well as being better suited to a top team. Shaqiri is not good.


----------



## SJSharks72

YNWA14 said:


> I thought the original conversation started from saying the PL teams were not good at developing talent.
> 
> Either way I don't think Sancho and David are comparable.
> 
> He's better, and younger as well as being better suited to a top team. Shaqiri is not good.



David is not good right now either then. No the original was you saying that David should go to Liverpool.


----------



## Cassano

Hat trick for Jonathan David. He is now the top scorer in the Belgian league and 2nd most in assists.


----------



## YNWA14

SJSharks39 said:


> David is not good right now either then. No the original was you saying that David should go to Liverpool.



What? David is quite good. More important than just his skill he’s an incredibly hard working and intelligent footballer which is one of the reasons I think he’d succeed at a top club. His game intelligence alone is not even comparable to Shaqiri.

Liverpool has done really well bringing its young players along lately and I think David would be a good fit there.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

YNWA14 said:


> What? David is quite good. More important than just his skill he’s an incredibly hard working and intelligent footballer which is one of the reasons I think he’d succeed at a top club. His game intelligence alone is not even comparable to Shaqiri.
> 
> Liverpool has done really well bringing its young players along lately and I think David would be a good fit there.



I agree. If anything he is everything Klopp/LFC likes about a player. The work rate, the playmaking ability, the finishing and the potential to grow his game even more.
I am pretty sure he is somehow in Liverpool radar although there might be bigger fish (sancho).

I am well confident David will develop into a top player. He is really the new type of player that teams like (versatile, pacy, finishing, playmaker)

I do think he is better in another league (possibly ligue 1) that would help him develop at a decent pace. I read that Lyon could be interested.


----------



## SJSharks72

YNWA14 said:


> What? David is quite good. More important than just his skill he’s an incredibly hard working and intelligent footballer which is one of the reasons I think he’d succeed at a top club. His game intelligence alone is not even comparable to Shaqiri.
> 
> Liverpool has done really well bringing its young players along lately and I think David would be a good fit there.



I’m not saying David is bad. That wasn’t my point. Shaqiri is proven at the highest level and in his prime. Even if he’s not playing right now, to say David is better than Shaqiri when he’s been doing it against players in the Belgian league is just false in my eyes. What David has done at such a young age is definitely impressive but he should go to a team where he will start a majority of games or at least play in a majority of games and at Liverpool that’s not going to be the case especially after bringing in Werner which it looks like is gonna happen.


----------



## YNWA14

Not that anyone is forgetting about Moukoko but he's been called up to the u19 German squad and he's also I believe in the middle of getting an application to be eligible to play in the Bundesliga at 16. Everyone knows why. He's now up to 31 goals and 8 assists in 18 games at the u19 level as a kid who turned 15 in November. Prodigious.


SJSharks39 said:


> I’m not saying David is bad. That wasn’t my point. Shaqiri is proven at the highest level and in his prime. Even if he’s not playing right now, to say David is better than Shaqiri when he’s been doing it against players in the Belgian league is just false in my eyes. What David has done at such a young age is definitely impressive but he should go to a team where he will start a majority of games or at least play in a majority of games and at Liverpool that’s not going to be the case especially after bringing in Werner which it looks like is gonna happen.



I mean, Shaqiri isn't exactly proven in the sense that he's been moved on by every top team that's had him, and he's never really excelled (it's not like he was a gangbuster for Stoke either). He does well for the Swiss because the entire team revolves around him pretty much but a lot of players flourish in that kind of environment. I think David is the type of talent that will flourish regardless of where he goes because of the way he plays and the type of person he is off the field. Liverpool have been very good at bringing along their young players recently and I think he would fit into that next group very well. Still, I'm happy to see him go somewhere he'll get more minutes, but I see him being a much more successful player than Shaqiri on the whole.


----------



## YNWA14

Not that anyone is forgetting about Moukoko but he's been called up to the u19 German squad and he's also I believe in the middle of getting an application to be eligible to play in the Bundesliga at 16. Everyone knows why. He's now up to 31 goals and 8 assists in 18 games at the u19 level as a kid who turned 15 in November. Prodigious.


SJSharks39 said:


> I’m not saying David is bad. That wasn’t my point. Shaqiri is proven at the highest level and in his prime. Even if he’s not playing right now, to say David is better than Shaqiri when he’s been doing it against players in the Belgian league is just false in my eyes. What David has done at such a young age is definitely impressive but he should go to a team where he will start a majority of games or at least play in a majority of games and at Liverpool that’s not going to be the case especially after bringing in Werner which it looks like is gonna happen.



I mean, Shaqiri isn't exactly proven in the sense that he's been moved on by every top team that's had him, and he's never really excelled (it's not like he was a gangbuster for Stoke either). He does well for the Swiss because the entire team revolves around him pretty much but a lot of players flourish in that kind of environment. I think David is the type of talent that will flourish regardless of where he goes because of the way he plays and the type of person he is off the field. Liverpool have been very good at bringing along their young players recently and I think he would fit into that next group very well. Still, I'm happy to see him go somewhere he'll get more minutes, but I see him being a much more successful player than Shaqiri on the whole.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

The DFB is about to change the age requirement to allow 16 year olds. I think that’ll be in place for next season. He might even get an exception to play before that, but I don’t think he’s going to start practicing with the first team full time before preseason of next season. A debut might come before he’s 16, but it’s probably at least six months away.


----------



## HajdukSplit

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Having secured the trophy they played without a couple of their stars. Lost to Brazil but still celebrated. Crazy the amount of talent they could've had. Cant wait to see most of this group in the Olympics and maybe copa?




Didn't know where else to ask this but is Mateo Bajamich considered a prospect? Mateo Bajamich - Player profile 19/20

Not much info on him in English, it appears he is on some shortlist to make the Argentine Olympic squad despite playing in the Argentine 2nd division. I ask because the Croatia U21 manager says he is scouting him and is in the process of getting his Croatian citizenship so he's been in the news there last few days. He seems very interested in playing for Croatia as well, the question is now whether he will be eligible which has been a problem with previous Argentine-Croatians because of their often distant links to the country (grandparents or in some cases great-grandparents). In the past Daniel Bilos rejected Croatia and Dario Cvitanich was denied by FIFA, neither really went on to have great careers so I'm a bit skeptical about Bajamich especially considering its the second division. There is also Matko Miljevic who is playing for the US youth national teams though not much attention is given to him in the Croatian press yet


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

HajdukSplit said:


> Didn't know where else to ask this but is Mateo Bajamich considered a prospect? Mateo Bajamich - Player profile 19/20
> 
> Not much info on him in English, it appears he is on some shortlist to make the Argentine Olympic squad despite playing in the Argentine 2nd division. I ask because the Croatia U21 manager says he is scouting him and is in the process of getting his Croatian citizenship so he's been in the news there last few days. He seems very interested in playing for Croatia as well, the question is now whether he will be eligible which has been a problem with previous Argentine-Croatians because of their often distant links to the country (grandparents or in some cases great-grandparents). In the past Daniel Bilos rejected Croatia and Dario Cvitanich was denied by FIFA, neither really went on to have great careers so I'm a bit skeptical about Bajamich especially considering its the second division. There is also Matko Miljevic who is playing for the US youth national teams though not much attention is given to him in the Croatian press yet




Never seen him play... hasnt played for Argentina in their youth teams. I wouldnt be surprised to see him wanting to represent Croatia. Argentina is just too competitive for attackers. Even if you're decent you might not get even a sniff. His goal record in the 2nd division is pretty good though. Last one I remember who tore up the second division in Argentina was Dybala. So...


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Man City and Chelsea are trying to poach Nnamdi Collins from Dortmund. He turned 16 in January and plays CB. Collins is the biggest talent in the Dortmund academy, aside from Moukoko. He already trains with the first team.


----------



## Jussi

Sign her up!


----------



## YNWA14

This board has become a dangerous place for making lists as we used to thanks to various dynasty league participants. That said I'm still probably going to do one for the Netherlands talents again sometime soon (maybe when the current Dynasty draft is over). I'll probably also include a side list or 'special mentions' for a few players that aren't Dutch if I've seen enough of them to comment on how good I think they'll be.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I’ve been making my list of the best American prospects, and I anticipated it being done last week, but that didn’t happen. It’s all done now and I’m in the editing stage of it, so hopefully I’ll have the time to finish that and post it by the end of the day.


----------



## Savant

YNWA14 said:


> This board has become a dangerous place for making lists as we used to thanks to various dynasty league participants. That said I'm still probably going to do one for the Netherlands talents again sometime soon (maybe when the current Dynasty draft is over). I'll probably also include a side list or 'special mentions' for a few players that aren't Dutch if I've seen enough of them to comment on how good I think they'll be.



This is why I don’t like the dynasty leagues! I prefer the content


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I make a yearly ranking here of the best American prospects. Here is a list for 2020.

I'm going to keep the same parameters that I kept last year for the age groups. 2001-2005 age groups. Players born in 1997 are still eligible for youth competitions, but a player born in 1997 is so far ahead in their career of one born in 2005 that it would make no sense to be putting them on the same list. Ranking is based mostly on potential, but play in the professional game does matter. I chose to split up field players and goalies this year.



Spoiler: Top 50 Field Players and Top 10 Goalies



Goalies:

1. Damian Las(Fulham FC-2002): Real commanding presence in goal. Leader at the back. Capable of stealing games. Best part of his game are incredible reflexes, but he's also very good on aerial balls, makes few errors, and he's good with his feet. Only 6'1, but that hasn't been a problem yet.
2. Chris Brady(Chicago Fire-2004): Very high floor for a goalkeeper. Makes almost no mistakes for a young keeper, good off his line, good height at 6'4 and above-average reflexes. Needs to work on his feet.
3. Jeff Dewsnup(Real Salt Lake-2004): Highest potential keeper on this list. Excellent combination of height, athleticism, ability to play out of the back and decision making. He isn't yet the top performer, but he's close to it. If he improves the small details, he could be really good.
4. SethWilson(FC Dallas-2002): Big presence in net, catches everything contested in the air, very good reflexes for a bigger keeper. Been a consistent force for years in the best academy in the country. Feet are mediocre.
5. David Ochoa(Real Salt Lake-2001): Nearly won the starting goalkeeper job for the first team. He has good height. Outside of that, I find that he's very average across the board. Not the most talented and slightly raw. Still, you can't discount that he's very close to a first team impact at 19.
6. Gabriel Slonina(Chicago Fire-2004): Odd situation, as you can tell with this list. Two young first team keepers for Chicago in the same age group. It's an interesting back story. Slonina is huge. He's 6'5 already. He's a little like Ochoa. Talented, but slightly raw, and lacks the highest ceiling.
7. Eliot Jones(New England Revolution-2003): Another kid off that same Ochoa/Slonina tree. Good size, pretty well-rounded keeper, but also has a long way to go in his development. Plays in a weak academy, so he's under the radar.
8. Andrew Cordes(Colorado Rapids-2003): A very gifted athlete. You can tell this kid excelled in other sports. He has a very sturdy build and is under-sized, but plays much bigger than his size. Excellent shot-stopper. Good with his feet, as well. Main issue is that he's only around 6'1.
9. Emmanuel Ochoa(San Jose Earthquakes-2005): Probably the hardest player on either list to evaluate because he plays in an age group where goalies are barely challenged physically. He has good height, has good reflexes, and can play out of the back. Hard to tell much more than that.
10. Max Trejo(Sporting Kansas City-2002): Really like this kid's reflexes. He can make some crazy saves, and he doesn't have bad height. But he's a little raw. Mostly just an athlete at this point.

Field Players:

1. Gio Reyna (Borussia Dortmund-2002): The most proven at the top level, and has developed extremely well in the last year, so he’s earned the top spot. Great all-around athlete. Positionally versatile. Very good, not great, set of attacking skills. No real weaknesses.
2. Moses Nyeman (DC United-2003): #10 with great talent, but declining dominance. Elite level sense, combination play and passing vision. Small, but adequate athlete. Can show great creativity and dribbling, but it’s too inconsistent. Needs to play more aggressive.
3. Jonathan Gomez (Louisville City-2003): Very talented LB. Recently left FC Dallas due to a falling out between the club and his camp. Rubber stamped to sign in Europe at 18. Such a good player. Does everything well. Not many fullbacks can tilt the field. He can.
4. Nati Clarke (Sporting Kansas City-2005): A CB with a tremendous set of tools. Can really run the game from CB. People rave about his intangibles. Consistently captains teams he plays for. Great personal story. Adopted at age 5 from Ethiopia. Came from destitution.
5. Taylor Booth (Bayern Munich-2001): All-around midfielder who can do some of everything. Excellent soccer IQ and passing range. No real weaknesses, except for height. Can play as a #6, #8 or #10. I think he’s best as a #6.
6. Quinn Sullivan (Philadelphia Union-2004): A #10 with tremendous sense. Can survey the whole field around him. Excellent passing vision and playmaking creativity. Good size, adequate athlete and has positional versatility. Stylistically reminds me of Kaka. High ceiling.
7. Ricardo Pepi (FC Dallas-2003): Classic #9 in a good development environment. Target forward, but very athletic and fast. Excellent goal scoring record. Can finish in every way. Very good foot-skills. So many tools. No real weaknesses, but needs time to develop. High ceiling.
8. Ulysses Llanez (Wolfsburg-2001): A winger who was recently promoted to the first team at Wolfsburg. Already capped for the National Team. Very fast with excellent acceleration, great dribbling, especially ball control. Plays LW and always going for goal. Playmaking needs work.
9. Elton Chifamba (Columbus Crew-2003): An all-around midfielder. Can pass, tackle, covers a lot of ground, and has pretty good skills. A little inconsistent, and height isn’t ideal. Versatility to play either as a 6 or 8.
10. Gage Akalu (Sporting Kansas City-2005): Really productive attacking midfielder. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen him not play well. He has very good dribbling and creativity, he passes the ball well, can play LW, RW, CAM. Left footed kid. Sense is only around average.
11. Julian Araujo (LA Galaxy-2001): I’m a huge fan of this guy, but his development has not went well in recent years. A position switch from CB to RB has not helped, and his club team doesn’t play young players. Still has a very high floor. No real weaknesses.
12. Danny Leyva (Seattle Sounders-2003): A box to box midfielder with excellent sense. Very good on the ball with his passing and foot skills. Adequate size. Athleticism looks awkward and movement is not swift, but I think it plays better than it looks.
13. Tanner Tessman (FC Dallas-2001): A big box to box midfielder who has shown a very good development curve over the last few years. Very athletic, but can really pass and has good skill. Capable defender, but inconsistent physicality defensively.
14. Chris Thaggard (Charlotte MLS-2005): First academy signing of a not-yet named MLS Expansion team for 2021. Can play anywhere in attack, likely best as a winger. Very athletic, excellent dribbling creativity, and a prolific goal scorer. Sense and passing isn’t bad either.
15. Kobe Hernandez-Foster (Wolfsburg-2002): LB who will be joining Wolfsburg when he turns 18 in June. Almost all his value is driven by his ability going forward, which is excellent. Great passing, crossing, can dribble. Athleticism and defensive value is around average.
16. Konrad de la Fuente (FC Barcelona-2001): A winger not far from the Barcelona first team, but his stock has dropped. Unfortunately, his speed is very average and his end product has stagnated. Good sense, combination play, and some skill. Ceiling isn’t high, but high floor.
17. Casey Walls (San Jose Earthquakes-2001): CB with above-average size, tremendous build up play from the back, and pretty good defensive play. He’s a little slow, but not terribly. He’s very creative with how he moves the ball forward. Reminds me stylistically of Mats Hummels.
18. Mauricio Cuevas (LA Galaxy-2003): RB with a good all-around skill-set. Very good soccer IQ. Average defensive game and athleticism, and a real big asset going forward. Best crosser of the ball in the youth player pool. Unfortunately, his club team doesn’t integrate youth.
19. Brandan Craig (Philadelphia Union-2004): Club team moved him to CB. I think he’s a #6. Also has played RB. Tall and very lanky. Incredible passing range, so good he takes free kicks, despite his height and position. Good sense and defending. Athleticism could be an issue.
20. Reed Baker-Whiting (Seattle Sounders-2005): Bruising box to box midfielder. He’s tall and lanky with good mobility. Incredible defensive player. Wins every challenge. He plays with minimal flash. Plays north to south, but is a very good passer and has a good soccer IQ.
21. Dantouma Toure (New York Red Bull-2004): A center forward with incredible speed and quickness. Defenders struggle so much with his pace. He’s left footed, a pretty good finisher, and crafty running with the ball. Sense and combination play is a little raw, but not terrible.
22. Antonio Leone (Los Angeles FC-2004): Big CB who has a stocky build. Very good athlete, strong, good in the air. Passes the ball very well out of the back. Not a bad defender, but can be beat defensively. Elite CB’s usually defend better, so he needs to work on that.
23. Chris Garcia (Real Salt Lake-2003): Dynamic speed at winger. He can run by anyone, but also has pretty good dribbling ability, passing and creativity. He's a little inconsistent and makes some bad decisions, but he's improving in this area.
24. Sam Sarver (Columbus Crew-2003): Very fast winger. He has a very direct and simple approach. He's clinical in the final third. Always makes the right decision. Not the biggest or most skilled, but he makes plays because of his speed, soccer IQ and approach.
25. Joe Scally (New York City FC-2002): Athletic RB. Big, powerful, great leaper, fast. Excellent defensively. Mediocre technique, but able to make offensive plays due to sense and aggressiveness. Might eventually be a CB or CM. Born on December 31. Will move to Gladbach in 2021.
26. Zach Booth (Real Salt Lake-2004): Very similar player to his older brother. All around CM. A little under-sized, but a pretty good athlete for his size. Can pass the ball, run with it, good soccer IQ and skill on the ball. Can play as a #6, #8, #10. I've even seen him play in defense.
27. Francis Jacobs (Orange County SC-2005): Already a professional player. Very big and athletic CM with size, power, athleticism. Good sense. Passes the ball well, and can play both sides of the game. I don't know how good his offensive skills are, but he has a high floor for a player his age.
28. Tarun Karumanchi (San Jose Earthquakes-2003): Big holding midfielder with incredible poise on the ball. Looks almost lackadaisical on the ball, at times. Great passing range. Doesn't move the best, but he's a good defensive player, and covers a lot of ground due to his defensive instincts.
29. Fabrizio Bernal (San Antonio FC-2003): Very raw. Can probably play anywhere in attack. Reminds me a lot of Gio Reyna. Great athlete, technique, dribbling, creativity. Only in his first season in the main development league, so he's needed some adjustment. High upside.
30. Jose Gallegos (San Antonio FC-2001): Stocky attacking midfielder. Can play winger or centrally. I think he's best as a winger. Dribbles well, has some good quickness and passes the ball well. I think his decision making in the final third could use some improvement.
31. Alfonso Ocampo-Chavez (Seattle Sounders-2002): Really good goal scoring striker. He's a little under-sized. That’s the main concern with his game. He does a lot well, and is an elite finisher who can score in every way. Reminds me a lot of Chicharito Hernandez.
32 Tristan Viviani (San Jose Earthquakes-2004): A former winger who has adapted well to LB. He's a very good athlete, and defends extremely well. Good size and pretty physical. Technique is pretty average, but he combines well, is aggressive offensively and has a high soccer IQ.
33. Marcelo Mazzola (Philadelphia Union-2005): All around striker. Can also play out wide, but he's best suited as a #9. Does almost everything well and has elite movement. A real pain for defenders to deal with. Needs to work on his finishing. It's not bad, but he's not clinical.
34. Leo Torres (San Antonio FC-2004): Left-footed attacker. Can play either wing or CAM. Good creativity, dribbling and playmaking combination. Not a bad athlete. Like his soccer IQ and decision making.
35. George Bello (Atlanta United-2002): Good dribbler at LB with excellent acceleration. Pretty good technique for an athletic full-back. Combines well in attack. Defensive positioning, turnovers and injuries are a problem. Club has a bad early history of young Americans, as well.
36. Owen Otasowie (Wolves FC-2001): Huge central midfielder. Really good athlete. Good passing ability and ball carrying. Covers a lot of ground and tackles well. Can also play CB. Soccer IQ needs some work. Already has gotten into a few games with the first team.
37. Travian Sousa (Hamburg-2001): LB with dynamic dribbling skills. Really fast and creative dribbler. Defensive game is a big work in progress. It's getting better, but needs a lot of work. He started out as a winger, so it may be a project. Close to a first team debut.
38. Cameron Harper (Celtic FC-2001): Very direct winger. Good speed. He combines well with teammates. More of a goal-scorer than passer, but he can set up some plays. I don't know how good his skills are, but I like his approach. Close to a debut with the Celtic first team.
39. Jacob Akanyirige (San Jose Earthquakes-2001): Very fast CB with a good read of the game. Not the biggest kid. Needs to bulk up. His technique is about average, but he's a very progressive carrier of the ball. Has struggled with some injuries in recent years. December 31 birthday.
40. Tayvon Gray (New York City FC-2002): Very fast CB. Reads the game well defensively. Not the biggest and not the best passer. Can also play RB or DM pretty well. Not a high upside kid, but a reliable player with versatility.
41. Josh Atencio (Seattle Sounders-2002): Big holding midfielder. Good feet. A little slow. His defense is very inconsistent. It's pretty good, but he definitely still has too many big errors.
42. Bryan Moyado (LAFC-2005): He's probably better than most listed higher, but I've seen a recent improvement that I need to see more of. Big holding midfielder with incredible defensive instincts. Wins back the ball so easily. Good feet. A little slow.
43. Alexis Luna (Stanislaus United FC-2005): Playing in the middle of nowhere in a lower league. I've only seen him play once. It's hard to rank him higher because of the level of play. Winger with great speed and dribbling ability. Very talented player. Could move up a lot in next few years.
44. Fede Oliva (Atletico Madrid-2004): Big athlete who can play anywhere in attack, runs well with the ball and can combine. Not much in the way of technical skills or creativity yet, but maybe that part of his game develops.
45. Dominic Dubon (Philadelphia Union-2005): Well rounded playmaker. Can do some of everything. Capable of playing wide or centrally. I don't know if he's dynamic enough to be a star, but he's still young.
46. Anton Sorenson (Philadelphia Union-2003): He's a LB with athleticism and dribbling ability. His soccer IQ is high and he defends pretty well.
47. Kevin Paredes (DC United-2003): Left-footed RW who cuts onto his left and creates plays. Can pass, shoot for goal, combine. Average athlete. This style of play works better when you can run by players easier than he does.
48. Alan Carleton (Atlanta United-2005): Some of the same skills as his older brother, but he's not as offensively talented. Really good passing vision, soccer IQ and combination play. Good motor, but might be an athletic tweener between #8 and #10.
49. Jonathan Villal (Atlanta United-2005): Teammate and similar player to the guy right above him. Fun tandem to watch play. Villal is probably also best as a #10, but he's a little quicker. Above-average playmaker and dribbler. Good soccer IQ and combination play. Can also play out wide.
50. Justin Reynolds (Chicago Fire-2004): Really high IQ RB. Tremendous read of the game defensively, so he rarely gets himself in trouble, but he also has the speed to recover, if needed. Offensively, he can combine and has passable technique. Gets by offensively more on his sense.


----------



## les Habs

YNWA14 said:


> This board has become a dangerous place for making lists as we used to thanks to various dynasty league participants. That said I'm still probably going to do one for the Netherlands talents again sometime soon (maybe when the current Dynasty draft is over). I'll probably also include a side list or 'special mentions' for a few players that aren't Dutch if I've seen enough of them to comment on how good I think they'll be.




Is it though? I'd say the talents posted here are generally well known and somewhat easy to form an opinion on despite this thread. I won't lie and say I didn't look at it, but it was generally after I'd formed an opinion on a player.


----------



## YNWA14

les Habs said:


> Is it though? I'd say the talents posted here are generally well known and somewhat easy to form an opinion on despite this thread. I won't lie and say I didn't look at it, but it was generally after I'd formed an opinion on a player.



Given I have lists on players I follow in the Netherlands into 2005 born there’s a very good chance that most people here have never heard of a good portion of them.

Plus knowing where and how I rank these players, even if they’re already known, could influence where they get taken or how aggressively they get picked. I’ve already seen it happen multiple times in our drafts.


----------



## Internazionale

Inter are close to finalising the deal for Greek right back Georgios Vagiannidis, who is currently playing for Panathinaikos, according to a report from today’s paper edition of the Milano based newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport.
The report details how the 18-year-old Greek full back’s contract expires with Panathinaikos at the end of this season, and so he will be signed on a free transfer. The player was convinced by the move to Milan due to the prospect of immediately being integrated into the first team. The deal is almost fully complete and Inter feel confident of securing his signature soon. The Nerazzurri have been searching hard for new full backs as coach Antonio Conte is only convinced by Ashley Young in the department.
Vagiannidis has made 17 appearances across all competitions so far this season, for a total of 1238 minutes. In that time, he has scored five goals and provided one assist, scoring and assisting once in his Greek Super League debut.


----------



## les Habs

YNWA14 said:


> Given I have lists on players I follow in the Netherlands into 2005 born there’s a very good chance that most people here have never heard of a good portion of them.
> 
> Plus knowing where and how I rank these players, even if they’re already known, could influence where they get taken or how aggressively they get picked. I’ve already seen it happen multiple times in our drafts.




Yeah, I mean fair enough if you don't want to publish a list. I wouldn't if I were you. 

I have a few guys I was considering who aren't in FM yet. Just have to wait until next year assuming I have any room for them.


----------



## YNWA14

les Habs said:


> Yeah, I mean fair enough if you don't want to publish a list. I wouldn't if I were you.
> 
> I have a few guys I was considering who aren't in FM yet. Just have to wait until next year assuming I have any room for them.



Yeah and on top of that there's a bunch of older guys that are on the verge of breaking out that could take the next step pretty easily that I'll be listing as well. Honestly I'm going to do it anyway because I just love that part of the sport but I might wait a couple of days until I draft a couple more players.


----------



## Cassano

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I make a yearly ranking here of the best American prospects. Here is a list for 2020.
> 
> I'm going to keep the same parameters that I kept last year for the age groups. 2001-2005 age groups. Players born in 1997 are still eligible for youth competitions, but a player born in 1997 is so far ahead in their career of one born in 2005 that it would make no sense to be putting them on the same list. Ranking is based mostly on potential, but play in the professional game does matter. I chose to split up field players and goalies this year.



Where would you have Yunus Musah or Folarin Balogun if they play for USMNT?

Balogun is leading PL2 in scoring, but I have not heard much of his name this season as last year's. He may want to choose USA, because the starting striker position for Nigeria (Onyekuru, Osimhen) and England (Kane, Rashford, Abraham) will be difficult to break through.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Cassano said:


> Where would you have Yunus Musah or Folarin Balogun if they play for USMNT?
> 
> Balogun is leading PL2 in scoring, but I have not heard much of his name this season as last year's. He may want to choose USA, because the starting striker position for Nigeria (Onyekuru, Osimhen) and England (Kane, Rashford, Abraham) will be difficult to break through.




Balogun, quite high. Probably 6-15 range. I'm a little unsure about the development path. It doesn't seem like he's developing all too quickly at Arsenal. He's nearly 19, and hasn't even played yet for the first team. Once on the bench, but I think it's safe to say he's not going to start getting regular playing time in the next year or two. I'm quite confident he'll choose the USA over Nigeria. He's not played yet for Nigeria, and accepted a call up to a US camp in the middle of his stint with England. If he'll ever be more than a fringe guy for the US Senior National Team, I can't be sure. He had a good season in the Premier League 2. I think he was injured midseason. 

Musah, I have less of grasp on his level of play. I see he's been playing regularly with his England age group. He was the youngest guy who got regularly minutes with the Valencia reserves this season, so thats pretty good, but he wasn't even starting most games. I'm guessing that he'd be somewhere around the same range as Balogun, but I've never seen him play and know little about his style of play. I have no clue that he even has interest in playing for the USA. Born in New York, but thats about it. Balogun is a lot more of a possibility, in my opinion. 

And I should add that I didn't include any players not currently playing for the USA. There are a number of other good players like Malik Tillman (Germany), Bryan Okoh (Switzerland), Efrain Alvarez (Mexico), Jonathan Perez (Mexico) that could eventually play for the USA, but aren't at the moment.


----------



## YNWA14

There's a few young guys out there right now looking like potential stars. A couple kids from Barcelona's academy like Pablo Paez 'Gavi' and Brian Pena are getting a lot of attention. Florian Wirtz got his debut already and he's probably one of my favourite prospects in the world that isn't Dutch, absolutely filthy close control, smart, not the most athletic yet but he'll grow into it. Luca Netz and Lasse Gunther round out Germany's top '03s (Torben Rhein and Emrehan Gedikli are up there too) IMO, and then you have Nnamdi Collins as Pavel has mentioned who looks phenomenal for his age. Ronaldo Camara and Joelson Fernandes look incredibly talented from Portugal. I also really like the look of Anthony Descotte from Belgium.

These are just a few of my favourite lesser known talents I was tracking because they're still pretty young. I'm still undecided about sharing my Dutch list which is a lot more in depth and goes from 1998 to 2005 lol.

I will say that people should look in on Joey Veerman. His passing and game sense are off the charts. Plays for Heerenveen along with another guy that's a bit older who seems to be finding his feet in Chidera Ejuke. Ejuke is incredible with the ball at his feet; interested to see how that translates to a more top team but IIRC he was one of the best dribblers in Europe this year.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I’d start to watch out for Edmond Tapsoba in these discussions of the best young player in the world. I think he’s going straight to the top of football, and is probably the best young CB in the game. It’s unheard of how good this guy is at his age. I’ve started recording Leverkusen games just to watch him play. His teammate Havertz gets all the hype, but Tapsoba is the best player in that team, and I don’t think it’s that close.

I doubt he leaves this summer because he just got there in January, but I think a year from now he’s sold for 100M. I couldn’t imagine he’ll last very long at Leverkusen.


----------



## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I’d start to watch out for Edmond Tapsoba in these discussions of the best young player in the world. I think he’s going straight to the top of football, and is probably the best young CB in the game. It’s unheard of how good this guy is at his age. I’ve started recording Leverkusen games just to watch him play. His teammate Havertz gets all the hype, but Tapsoba is the best player in that team, and I don’t think it’s that close.
> 
> I doubt he leaves this summer because he just got there in January, but I think a year from now he’s sold for 100M. I couldn’t imagine he’ll last very long at Leverkusen.



Tapsoba is a great talent but I think this is an exaggeration. Havertz rightly gets all the hype for a reason. There are plenty of great young CBs out there that are just as talented and more proven.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

YNWA14 said:


> Tapsoba is a great talent but I think this is an exaggeration. Havertz rightly gets all the hype for a reason. There are plenty of great young CBs out there that are just as talented and more proven.




Havertz gets a lot of hype from the outside media. They love him. The non-Bundesliga fans have seen him score I think like 7 goals in his last four games. They now have inflated their opinion of him because they probably haven’t seen him play previously all season to that. For almost all of the first half of the season he was anonymous. None of them would’ve had a clue.

He’s a good player with some potential. His play this season is much more in line with Moussa Diaby than Tapsoba. Tapsoba is already the finished product. As I said, it’s really not even close. Tapsoba is the reason Leverkusen are going to qualify for the Champions League next season. And he’s doing this playing CB for Peter Bosz, which might be the hardest coach in the sport to play that position for because of how crazy his tactics are.


----------



## Evilo

Tapsoba is hardly the best young CB in the world. There are plenty in front of him, including multiple frenchmen. Havertz is in another tier.

And frankly, anyone saying Sancho is in Mbappe's class should get their eyes examined. If needed, they played each other twice recently, and it was like comparing a man with a kid.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> Tapsoba is hardly the best young CB in the world. There are plenty in front of him, including multiple frenchmen. Havertz is in another tier.
> 
> And frankly, anyone saying Sancho is in Mbappe's class should get their eyes examined. If needed, they played each other twice recently, and it was like comparing a man with a kid.



Who do you think is the best CB?


----------



## Evilo

To be honest, I think the most obvious name right now is Saliba. I like Kouassi personally, as well as Todibo who's out of this world technically for a CB.
But Saliba?
He's a monster. He's huge, leader and St Etienne's numbers with or without him are completely crazy.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> To be honest, I think the most obvious name right now is Saliba. I like Kouassi personally, as well as Todibo who's out of this world technically for a CB.
> But Saliba?
> He's a monster. He's huge, leader and St Etienne's numbers with or without him are completely crazy.



First and foremost - glad to see you on here.

Second I honestly have not been impressed by Todibo from what I have seen of him at a Schalke. Schalke obviously is a mess in general right now but I have not liked what I have seen. Reminds me of John Stones, which is not a compliment.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> To be honest, I think the most obvious name right now is Saliba. I like Kouassi personally, as well as *Todibo *who's out of this world technically for a CB.
> But Saliba?
> He's a monster. He's huge, leader and St Etienne's numbers with or without him are completely crazy.




I dont know how to feel about this tbh.


----------



## Evilo

Savant said:


> First and foremost - glad to see you on here.
> 
> Second I honestly have not been impressed by Todibo from what I have seen of him at a Schalke. Schalke obviously is a mess in general right now but I have not liked what I have seen. Reminds me of John Stones, which is not a compliment.



He has to progress, otherwise, he'd be out of this world already.
He's 18 and his poise is crazy.

So yeah, he'll make mistakes like the other day when he cost a goal. But he also made some crazy saves (including a sure fire goal) and his talent with the ball gives a team a new dimension.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> He has to progress, otherwise, he'd be out of this world already.
> He's 18 and his poise is crazy.
> 
> So yeah, he'll make mistakes like the other day when he cost a goal. But he also made some crazy saves (including a sure fire goal) and his talent with the ball gives a team a new dimension.




Yes. Like Stones


----------



## Evilo

Savant said:


> Yes. Like Stones



Stones is 18?


----------



## Evilo

Also never saw Stones make good defensive plays. Todibo does it every game.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Stones is 18?



Stones used to be 18. He never grew out of those bad habits. Still plays lightweight. Has some flashes but doesn’t defend consistently at all and we see where he is now. And think about how much he cost in transfer fees.


----------



## Evilo

Yeah well his lack of progress doesn't mean every player won't progress.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Yeah well his lack of progress doesn't mean every player won't progress.



Sure but it goes the other way too. We can agree to disagree on Todibo and still be friends. We are friends, right?


----------



## Evilo

Haha, no problem.
Just saying.

Someone with that technical bagage and already excellent with his first few pro minutes, that kind of guy has crazy potential. You should check his Barca game at Inter... WOW.
Now, he might not progress and be a decent player who never finds his groove. But I doubt it. His defensive instincts are there.
Don't forget he's playing right now for a struggling team.


----------



## Evilo

Also Konate and Ndicka are good names in this discussion.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Also Konate and Ndicka are good names in this discussion.



Konate I really like. A lot of good French defenders in the Bundesliga


----------



## YNWA14

The most obvious young defender to put at the top is Joe Gomez.


----------



## Evilo

Joe Gomez is 23 already. And I think Saliba's better anyway.
Another name worth mentionning is Boubacar Kamara. Lots of pro games already, best OM player, can play CB or DM with ease.


----------



## Cassano

Evilo said:


> Joe Gomez is 23 already. And I think Saliba's better anyway.
> Another name worth mentionning is Boubacar Kamara. Lots of pro games already, best OM player, can play CB or DM with ease.



I know he's probably not in the convo, but how do you feel about Pape Abou Cissé? 6ft6 and a monster in the games I've seen of him with Olympiakos. I think he will be the Arsenal bargain buy either this summer or the next to replace Sokratis/Mustafi.


----------



## les Habs

Savant said:


> First and foremost - glad to see you on here.
> 
> Second I honestly have not been impressed by Todibo from what I have seen of him at a Schalke. Schalke obviously is a mess in general right now but I have not liked what I have seen. Reminds me of John Stones, which is not a compliment.




Seriously? You're glad to see him on here?  Oops, I meant seriously, Stones? Call me a homer all day, I don't care, but Todibo looks the business. The problem is a lack of playing time and a lack of a consistent environment. On top of that Schalke are hot trash at the moment. Overall his time at Schalke has been considered a success and he's clearly picked up some admirers as a result. I'm fine with Barça loaning him out, though the dipshits in charge at Barça loaned him when we needed him in the first team, but the dipshits in charge at Barça also want to sell him as well. Todibo just needs some consistent minutes as a starter which sadly might mean permanently leaving Barça. Personally I'd sell Umtiti or Lenglet before I ever sold Todibo.

This has some clips from the match against Inter that @Evilo was referencing:



Imagine poor Lautaro having to put up with that in training every day.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Another string of ridiculous comments from Evilo. Welcome back!

Todibo does not impress me. It could be Schalke and Evilo has seen him play more than all of us, but I think he’s probably 3rd or 4th best French 1999 born CB in the Bundesliga. I think he’s more talented than Ndicka, so I’d probably place him third. Ndicka also plays LB too much. He’s not quick enough for that position.

I stand by what I said about Tapsoba. The kid is going to be a superstar in a year or two, if his game to game play isn’t already at that level.

And I stand by what I said about Sancho. He’s not yet as accomplished as Mbappe and that gives Mbappe an advantage for now, but Sancho is leading Europe in scoring points in his age 19/20 season. He’s not as flashy as Mbappe. There are plenty of players that look more flashy, but how could you discount a guy who is producing better than the world class players in world football this season? He’s produced better scoring point numbers than every single one of them.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> *Another string of ridiculous comments from Evilo. Welcome back!*
> 
> Todibo does not impress me. It could be Schalke and Evilo has seen him play more than all of us, but I think he’s probably 3rd or 4th best French 1999 born CB in the Bundesliga. I think he’s more talented than Ndicka, so I’d probably place him third. Ndicka also plays LB too much. He’s not quick enough for that position.
> 
> I stand by what I said about Tapsoba. The kid is going to be a superstar in a year or two, if his game to game play isn’t already at that level.
> 
> And I stand by what I said about Sancho. He’s not yet as accomplished as Mbappe and that gives Mbappe an advantage for now, but Sancho is leading Europe in scoring points in his age 19/20 season. He’s not as flashy as Mbappe. There are plenty of players that look more flashy, but how could you discount a guy who is producing better than the world class players in world football this season? He’s produced better scoring point numbers than every single one of them.




LOL.
I was merely responding to your crackhead comments about Havertz, Sancho and all.

How can I discount Sancho compared to Mbappe?
Well, let me know when Sancho has better numbers than Messi or Ronaldo over a long period of time.
Let me know when Sancho puts his team over the top in a WC.
Let me know when Sancho actually shows up in a big game.
Let me know when Sancho does something against good defenses.

Sancho gets his numbers against piss poor defenses. BVB scored more than 2.5 goals a game, and that's also a reason why.


----------



## robertmac43

Tapsoba being a star in 'a year or two' seems like a much more realistic prediction in comparison to he will be sold for 100m next summer.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> LOL.
> I was merely responding to your crackhead comments about Havertz, Sancho and all.
> 
> How can I discount Sancho compared to Mbappe?
> Well, let me know when Sancho has better numbers than Messi or Ronaldo over a long period of time.
> Let me know when Sancho puts his team over the top in a WC.
> Let me know when Sancho actually shows up in a big game.
> Let me know when Sancho does something against good defenses.
> 
> Sancho gets his numbers against piss poor defenses. BVB scored more than 2.5 goals a game, and that's also a reason why.




If Sancho gets his numbers against piss poor defenses, what do you consider the defenses in Ligue One? Better yet, don’t answer that question because it doesn’t even matter. People have said this type of thing about Messi for years. The best attackers in Europe put up the best numbers year after year. Sancho isn’t an exception to that. He has to be given respect on the tier of the world class players in the world after the season he’s having. 

To try to compare him to other young prospects is insulting. Mbappe and Sancho are the two who’ve separated themselves from being a prospect and fully into the world class attacker tier with guys like Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo, Lewandowski. To mention his name with Havertz is insulting. Havertz was nowhere to be seen the first half of the season after being very average last season. You can like his game better, but don’t mention him on the same level of player as Sancho. He’s simply not.

Besides, I never said Sancho is better yet than Mbappe. But if Sancho starts having similar or better seasons to Mbappe with consistency, like this season, how could you not put them on the same level? I wouldn’t yet say he’s as good, but he was as good or better this season.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Another string of ridiculous comments from Evilo.



Also how is your Pulisic is a Ballon D'or podium candidate working?
You know when you mocked me when I said his upside was top 5 Bundesliga player at best? You said I was making outlandish comments there also.

Let's say your projection skills aren't that great.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> If Sancho gets his numbers against piss poor defenses, what do you consider the defenses in Ligue One?



Well, the same CL teams and WC teams? You know since Mbappe has the best numbers of any CL young player EVER.



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> People have said this type of thing about Messi for years. The best attackers in Europe put up the best numbers year after year. Sancho isn’t an exception to that. He has to be given respect on the tier of the world class players in the world after the season he’s having.



Nope, Sancho isn't in the tier of Messi/Ronaldo/Mbappe/Neymar/Lewandowski and others.



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> To try to compare him to other young prospects is insulting. Mbappe and Sancho are the two who’ve separated themselves from being a prospect and fully into the world class attacker tier with guys like Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo, Lewandowski. To mention his name with Havertz is insulting. Havertz was nowhere to be seen the first half of the season after being very average last season. You can like his game better, but don’t mention him on the same level of player as Sancho. He’s simply not.



Nope, Sancho isn't world class yet. To mention Messi in the same breath as Sancho is insulting to any football fan. Same for the 3 others in fact.
Also never compared Havertz to Sancho but they're clearly comparable.



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Besides, I never said Sancho is better yet than Mbappe. But if Sancho starts having similar or better seasons to Mbappe with consistency, like this season, how could you not put them on the same level? I wouldn’t yet say he’s as good, but he was as good or better this season.



Nope, he was not as good or better. Again, just take a look at the two games between them. Mbappe with the ball was instant danger. Sancho? He made what? One dangerous play in 180 minutes?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> Also how is your Pulisic is a Ballon D'or podium candidate working?
> You know when you mocked me when I said his upside was top 5 Bundesliga player at best? You said I was making outlandish comments there also.
> 
> Let's say your projection skills aren't that great.




I see you aren’t easing your way back.

I know you took a break from this website, but did you also miss the football season? Pulisic has had a great season in a league we are told is so much better than the league he played in for years. He’s having the best season of his career, so evidently he’s still improving. Believe it or not, players can still improve at age 21. I actually wasn’t that high on his play in recent seasons, but if he plays like this and continued to get better, he’s going to be incredibly good at his peak. He’s added goals to his game and has been much better in the final third.

And you continue to distort that discussion. Funnily enough, Pulisic is having more success in his career than Dembele and Mor, so it looks like I was right. Of course, you won’t ever admit that.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I see you aren’t easing your way back.
> 
> I know you took a break from this website, but did you also miss the football season? Pulisic has had a great season in a league we are told is so much better than the league he played in for years. He’s having the best season of his career, so evidently he’s still improving. Believe it or not, players can still improve at age 21. I actually wasn’t that high on his play in recent seasons, but if he plays like this and continued to get better, he’s going to be incredibly good at his peak. He’s added goals to his game and has been much better in the final third.
> 
> And you continue to distort that discussion. Funnily enough, Pulisic is having more success in his career than Dembele and Mor, so it looks like I was right. Of course, you won’t ever admit that.



Oh I know how Pulisic took 3 months to step a foot in front of the other, how idiots would say he sucked and then when he started to produce, idiots would say he was world class.

That doesn't make your statements any less ridiculous. Mine was spot on though.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> Well, the same CL teams and WC teams? You know since Mbappe has the best numbers of any CL young player EVER.




And that’s why I said that Mbappe is more accomplished, and thus better. Did you miss that?



Evilo said:


> Nope, Sancho isn't world class yet. To mention Messi in the same breath as Sancho is insulting to any football fan. Same for the 3 others in fact.




This is a distraction from the substance of the discussion. You could say that about anyone in comparison to Messi. If you deal with the substance, Sancho is unquestionably among the top ten attackers in football. Yes, he’s world class.



Evilo said:


> Also never compared Havertz to Sancho but they're clearly comparable.




Can you explain how because that’s quite ridiculous?

Sancho has more goals or more assists than Havertz has goals+assists in the league this season.



Evilo said:


> Nope, he was not as good or better. Again, just take a look at the two games between them. Mbappe with the ball was instant danger. Sancho? He made what? One dangerous play in 180 minutes?




Do stats not matter then? Because that’s what you’re saying if a 19/20 year old who leads Europe in scoring points is not world class.

Besides, what did Mbappe do in the first leg better than Sancho? I thought Sancho had an excellent game and Mbappe had a quiet game. Or do stats now matter to you when it favors your point?


----------



## Evilo

Mbappe isn't only better, he's in a tier above.
Sancho has more G+A than Havertz? No kidding? On a team that scores less and in a different position? Wow.

What did Mbappe do better than Sancho in the first game? Seriously?
Take a f***ing look at the game. That does say a lot if you think he had a quiet game compared to Sancho. He made a goal all by himself, one that Sancho could have never created.


----------



## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


> Mbappe isn't only better, he's in a tier above.
> Sancho has more G+A than Havertz? No kidding? On a team that scores less and in a different position? Wow.
> 
> What did Mbappe do better than Sancho in the first game? Seriously?
> Take a f***ing look at the game. That does say a lot if you think he had a quiet game compared to Sancho. He made a goal all by himself, one that Sancho could have never created.



Man I missed Evilo. He really makes this place more entertaining and generally agrees with me.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> If Sancho gets his numbers against piss poor defenses, what do you consider the defenses in Ligue One? Better yet, don’t answer that question because it doesn’t even matter. People have said this type of thing about Messi for years. The best attackers in Europe put up the best numbers year after year. Sancho isn’t an exception to that. He has to be given respect on the tier of the world class players in the world after the season he’s having.
> 
> To try to compare him to other young prospects is insulting. Mbappe and Sancho are the two who’ve separated themselves from being a prospect and fully into the world class attacker tier with guys like Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo, Lewandowski. To mention his name with Havertz is insulting. Havertz was nowhere to be seen the first half of the season after *being very average last season.* You can like his game better, but don’t mention him on the same level of player as Sancho. He’s simply not.
> 
> Besides, I never said Sancho is better yet than Mbappe. But if Sancho starts having similar or better seasons to Mbappe with consistency, like this season, how could you not put them on the same level? I wouldn’t yet say he’s as good, but he was as good or better this season.




Wasn't he better last year than this year?


----------



## Evilo

I mean he had a "quiet" game. He just dribbled through 3 BVB defensemen to pass to Neymar for the empty net.
That's how "quiet" he was.


----------



## SJSharks72

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Wasn't he better last year than this year?



He was better offensively for sure but this season he’s become a much more well rounded player and you’re seeing that now.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Wasn't he better last year than this year?




Thats possible. I might've been thinking of two seasons ago, but his first half to this season was certainly pretty bad. I think some like how his style of play more than his play because he really hasn't been anywhere near these top players in his age group, and he's not even been as good as some players in his age group on his own team. He's been worse than Tapsoba for the half season they've been teammates, but over the course of a full season, I don't know that he's been much better than Diaby either.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Thats possible. I might've been thinking of two seasons ago, but his first half to this season was certainly pretty bad. I think some like how his style of play more than his play because he really hasn't been anywhere near these top players in his age group, and he's not even been as good as some players in his age group on his own team. He's been worse than Tapsoba for the half season they've been teammates, but over the course of a full season, I don't know that he's been much better than Diaby either.



I'm no german expert just witnessing these guys for half a year Kai has been the best in his team by a fair margin.

As for his poor play 2 seasons ago... he was 18 with 9 assists and 3 goals. Nothing to crazy but definitely not bad for a teenager. I think we can all agree that Kai is insanely talented and could end up being better than Sancho or vice versa.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> Mbappe isn't only better, he's in a tier above.
> Sancho has more G+A than Havertz? No kidding? On a team that scores less and in a different position? Wow.




Have you watched Havertz play this season because he's been playing nearly every game in the front four? I think he's only played 3-4 games as a box to box midfielder. For the most part, they play the same positions. A #10 or #9 should have similar scoring numbers to a winger, especially a #10 in Bosz system. He simply hasn't been extremely productive offensively. A big streak in recent weeks is clouding a lot of people's judgment. Volland, Alario, Bailey, Bellarabi all have better per game numbers. Paulinho, as well, but his sample size is extremely limited. Havertz barely nudges out Diaby. Havertz simply hasn't been as good as some want to believe. The team doesn't struggle to score. All the attackers have good numbers. Havertz is far down the list though on his own team.

And thats not to say he isn't very talented and currently a good player, but you invoked his name in the same discussion as Sancho, and the production of Sancho as the best in Europe should be a big separator there. Havertz is still a player whose game is based on potential, and he still doesn't impact games as a world class player. Sancho is a year younger, and is already one of the best at his position in the world.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I think we can all agree that Kai is insanely talented and could end up being better than Sancho or vice versa.




He could, and Sancho could end up better than Mbappe in a few years, as well.


----------



## YNWA14

I said it in the summer and I still believe that Sancho is in a similar tier to Mbappe. Clearly behind, but it's not a huge gap. As far as I'm concerned Sancho is clearly ahead of all the others on this list besides Mbappe. He's also 2 years younger than Mbappe and better when comparing at the same age. His goal contribution right now is almost at the same level as Mbappe and again, he's 2 years younger...and it seems weird to mention how good Dortmund is offensively as though PSG and Monaco don't have their way with the teams they face.

Havertz isn't at Sancho's level, IMO.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Have you watched Havertz play this season because he's been playing nearly every game in the front four? I think he's only played 3-4 games as a box to box midfielder. For the most part, they play the same positions. A #10 or #9 should have similar scoring numbers to a winger, especially a #10 in Bosz system. He simply hasn't been extremely productive offensively. A big streak in recent weeks is clouding a lot of people's judgment. Volland, Alario, Bailey, Bellarabi all have better per game numbers. Paulinho, as well, but his sample size is extremely limited. Havertz barely nudges out Diaby. Havertz simply hasn't been as good as some want to believe. The team doesn't struggle to score. All the attackers have good numbers. Havertz is far down the list though on his own team.
> 
> And thats not to say he isn't very talented and currently a good player, but you invoked his name in the same discussion as Sancho, and the production of Sancho as the best in Europe should be a big separator there. Havertz is still a player whose game is based on potential, and he still doesn't impact games as a world class player. Sancho is a year younger, and is already one of the best at his position in the world.



Again, you have no idea how to project talent. Diaby doesn't come close to Havertz and I like Diaby.
And you can impact a game by many other ways than G or A. 
Sancho and Havertz are totally comparable, people could like one or the other, that's anyone's choice.
Both are far far removed from Mbappe however.


----------



## Evilo

YNWA14 said:


> I said it in the summer and I still believe that Sancho is in a similar tier to Mbappe. Clearly behind, but it's not a huge gap. As far as I'm concerned Sancho is clearly ahead of all the others on this list besides Mbappe. H*e's also 2 years younger than Mbappe and better when comparing at the same age.* His goal contribution right now is almost at the same level as Mbappe and again, he's 2 years younger...and it seems weird to mention how good Dortmund is offensively as though PSG and Monaco don't have their way with the teams they face.



Excuse me?
Are you serious here?


----------



## YNWA14

Evilo said:


> Excuse me?
> Are you serious here?



Yes.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Evilo said:


> Tapsoba is hardly the best young CB in the world. There are plenty in front of him, including multiple frenchmen. Havertz is in another tier.
> 
> And frankly, anyone saying Sancho is in Mbappe's class should get their eyes examined. If needed, they played each other twice recently, and it was like comparing a man with a kid.




Good to see you back.
Sancho is close to be on Mbappe's class, let's not exaggerate here.
Reading some statements it would seem like comparing Messi to Ever Banega


----------



## Evilo

YNWA14 said:


> Yes.



How sad is it some people are commenting on football and writing things like that...

First you continue to say they're two years apart when they are in fact 1 year and 3 months apart.
So Sancho right now is 20 years old.
When Mbappe was 20 years old he had already :
- scored 62 goals in L1 (Sancho 30).
- scored 14 goals in CL (Sancho 3).
- scored 13 goals with the NT (Sancho 2)
-scored multiple key goals in a WC (Sancho 0).
That's not counting the eye test which is vastly different.

See, that's just sad. Just because you CAN write garbage doesn't mean you SHOULD.


----------



## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


> How sad is it some people are commenting on football and writing things like that...
> 
> First you continue to say they're two years apart when they are in fact 1 year and 3 months apart.
> So Sancho right now is 20 years old.
> When Mbappe was 20 years old he had already :
> - scored 62 goals in L1 (Sancho 30).
> - scored 14 goals in CL (Sancho 3).
> - scored 13 goals with the NT (Sancho 2)
> -scored multiple key goals in a WC (Sancho 0).
> That's not counting the eye test which is vastly different.
> 
> See, that's just sad. Just because you CAN write garbage doesn't mean you SHOULD.



I agree with you but one thing that I’m wondering about is assists. I know Sancho has had a ton of assists to go along with his goals. If I get a chance today or later (start a new job in an hour so don’t know how long I’m going to be there ) I’ll find them and post them but just one other thing to consider. But I do agree that Mbappe is the clear best young player in the world by a gap.


----------



## YNWA14

Evilo said:


> How sad is it some people are commenting on football and writing things like that...
> 
> First you continue to say they're two years apart when they are in fact 1 year and 3 months apart.
> So Sancho right now is 20 years old.
> When Mbappe was 20 years old he had already :
> - scored 62 goals in L1 (Sancho 30).
> - scored 14 goals in CL (Sancho 3).
> - scored 13 goals with the NT (Sancho 2)
> -scored multiple key goals in a WC (Sancho 0).
> That's not counting the eye test which is vastly different.
> 
> See, that's just sad. Just because you CAN write garbage doesn't mean you SHOULD.



In 17/18 which would be the same comparative season to what Sancho is having now:

*Mbappe:* 21 goals, 15 assists (including penalties won) in 3,554 minutes (46 appearances across all competitions) playing for one of the best offensive teams, and a completely dominant team domestically.
*Sancho: *20 goals, 20 assist (including penalties won) in 2,961 minutes (39 appearances across all competitions) playing for a strong offensive team, but hardly a powerhouse like PSG.

Both are incredible talents. Opportunity of course does not preclude someone from being better from season to season. I love watching Sancho play, and Mbappe for me wasn't better at 20 than what Sancho is now. Just because you can be a DICK doesn't mean you SHOULD be one any time someone disagrees with you; that is way more sad than anyone having a different view.


----------



## Evilo

YNWA14 said:


> In 17/18 which would be the same comparative season to what Sancho is having now:
> 
> *Mbappe:* 21 goals, 15 assists (including penalties won) in 3,554 minutes (46 appearances across all competitions) playing for one of the best offensive teams, and a completely dominant team domestically.
> *Sancho: *20 goals, 20 assist (including penalties won) in 2,961 minutes (39 appearances across all competitions) playing for a strong offensive team, but hardly a powerhouse like PSG.
> 
> Both are incredible talents. Opportunity of course does not preclude someone from being better from season to season. I love watching Sancho play, and Mbappe for me wasn't better at 20 than what Sancho is now. Just because you can be a DICK doesn't mean you SHOULD be one any time someone disagrees with you; that is way more sad than anyone having a different view.



Sorry you're wrong.
By the end of the 2017/2018 season Mbappe was 19 and a half.
Sancho is playing 1/3rd of this season as a 20 year old.

So again, you're wrong.
You can check the stats I gave you up there. THOSE are the good ones. And they tell you the whole story.

So you can post garbage as much as you want, there's no need to use skewed numbers.
This year is where Sancho turns from 19 to 20 during the season, right?
Well Mbappe turned from 19 to 20 last year. 33 L1 goals (6 assists), 4 CL goals (4 assists), 5 NT goals (3 assists).

Again, no need for lies to try to desperately prove a point everyone except 2 posters can see is plain wrong.


----------



## Evilo

SJSharks39 said:


> I agree with you but one thing that I’m wondering about is assists. I know Sancho has had a ton of assists to go along with his goals. If I get a chance today or later (start a new job in an hour so don’t know how long I’m going to be there ) I’ll find them and post them but just one other thing to consider. But I do agree that Mbappe is the clear best young player in the world by a gap.



He has 63 career pro assists.

In total in 180 club games, he has 117 goals and 55 assists. He adds 13 goals and 8 assists in 34 NT games.


----------



## YNWA14

Evilo said:


> Sorry you're wrong.
> By the end of the 2017/2018 season Mbappe was 19 and a half.
> Sancho is playing 1/3rd of this season as a 20 year old.
> 
> So again, you're wrong.
> You can check the stats I gave you up there. THOSE are the good ones. And they tell you the whole story.
> 
> So you can post garbage as much as you want, there's no need to use skewed numbers.
> This year is where Sancho turns from 19 to 20 during the season, right?
> Well Mbappe turned from 19 to 20 last year. 33 L1 goals (6 assists), 4 CL goals (4 assists), 5 NT goals (3 assists).
> 
> Again, no need for lies to try to desperately prove a point everyone except 2 posters can see is plain wrong.



They always play according to their birth year, which is what I'm using. I'm not 'wrong', it's the way that it's measured everywhere. I gave you the relevant stats compared to their same developmental seasons; you chose stats across multiple seasons and did it according to what you prefer to hedge your argument on. You're not going to agree and that's fine. You decry using a season where Sancho played all of the pre-lockout football (which means all but what...2-3 games?) as a 19 year old, but you'll take the stats from when Mbappe turned 20 at the beginning of the season to compare against this one? This is why birth years are used at every step as that's what academies use, and would mark their level of development.

So again, this is my view and my preference. Your stats are not what I am referring to nor do they mark the same developmental point in time that I was referring to either.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> I agree with you but one thing that I’m wondering about is assists. I know Sancho has had a ton of assists to go along with his goals. If I get a chance today or later (start a new job in an hour so don’t know how long I’m going to be there ) I’ll find them and post them but just one other thing to consider. But I do agree that Mbappe is the clear best young player in the world by a gap.



congrats on the job bud


----------



## Evilo

YNWA14 said:


> They always play according to their birth year, which is what I'm using. I'm not 'wrong', it's the way that it's measured everywhere. I gave you the relevant stats compared to their same developmental seasons; you chose stats across multiple seasons and did it according to what you prefer to hedge your argument on. You're not going to agree and that's fine. You decry using a season where Sancho played all of the pre-lockout football (which means all but what...2-3 games?) as a 19 year old, but you'll take the stats from when Mbappe turned 20 at the beginning of the season to compare against this one? This is why birth years are used at every step as that's what academies use, and would mark their level of development.
> 
> So again, this is my view and my preference. Your stats are not what I am referring to nor do they mark the same developmental point in time that I was referring to either.



Measured where exactly?
You compare players' stats using their age. So why would one be 9 months older in one comparison rather than the other being 3 months older?

My stats TOTALLY use their development since it was everything they had achieved in the season they turned 20.
Let me state that AGAIN for good measure :
When Mbappe was 20 years old he had already :
- scored 62 goals in L1 (Sancho 30).
- scored 14 goals in CL (Sancho 3).
- scored 13 goals with the NT (Sancho 2)
-scored multiple key goals in a WC (Sancho 0).

That was at the end of the season during which they turned 20. Since the season is not over right now, Sancho can actually add to it. I however doubt he scores 30 more goals in Bundesliga, 11 more goals in CL (wait, he's already out) and 11 more goals with the NT by the end of this season.


----------



## YNWA14

Again, I'm not sure what cumulative stats up to this age has to do with anything. That's all based on opportunity, teams they play for, roles in those teams, etc.

I always go by birth year because experience wise that's where they'll be at the same stage developmentally as far as soccer is concerned. Physically they might not be the same level of development, but Mbappe was very advanced physically already so I think that's hardly an excuse to try and shift their relative seasons.

I think 19/20 Sancho is better than 17/18 Mbappe. I don't know that he'll become as good as Mbappe is but he's in the same tier of player and definitely above the others in the list.


----------



## Evilo

So the fact one player is alreay dominant enough at age 17 to destroy CL teams is SUPPOSED to be a disadvantage in your reasonning.
Not the same tier, Sancho not as good in the season they turned 20 and NOT EVEN CLOSE.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Sancho's domestic league scoring rates were strikingly similar to Mbappe's in age 19 and age 20 seasons:

Sancho 19/20: Goal+assist every 59.9 minutes Mbappe 18/19: Goal+assist every 58.6 minutes

Sancho 18/19: Goal+assist every 94.8 minutes Mbappe 17/18: Goal+assist every 99.9 minutes

As for the CL, scoring is decisively in Mbappe's favor. I don't think Sancho has been disappointing in the CL. Maybe a little in 18/19. Dortmund just played so many lethargic games or games where their rudimentary tactics/weak midfield were exposed and they had way less possession than they're used to against worse teams. IMO it's also harder to take away Mbappe's off ball movement/pace+finishing, and Sancho likes to slow the game down to dribble too much. I'm confident that barring injury he will put together a very good CL campaign sooner than later. Mbappe was definitely better at age 19 and 20 though.


----------



## Evilo

Yes, he was, which was the whole discussion.
That doesn't take away anything from Sancho either. That's like saying Lewandowski is as good as Messi. He's not, but he's a great player.


----------



## Pensionsraddare

Who cares. Mbappe will stay and dominate in farmers his entire career and never win CL while Sancho sooner or later are going to end up playing in the best league in the world.

Kulusevski is better than both btw


----------



## Lambo

Pensionsraddare said:


> Who cares. Mbappe will stay and dominate in farmers his entire career and never win CL while Sancho sooner or later are going to end up playing in the best league in the world.
> 
> Kulusevski is better than both btw



1. PL is the most famous league in the World. But not the best.
2. La Liga is the best league in the wordl
3.PL is not much better than Bundesliga
4.With a PL-Klub like ManUnited Sancho also never win the CL.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Luka Romero apparently called up for the Barca game.... of all the times a player can make his debut lol. Lets see what the hype is.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Luka Romero apparently called up for the Barca game.... of all the times a player can make his debut lol. Lets see what the hype is.




The real new Messi.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> The real new Messi.



the only real new messi is Mateo... and Ciro


----------



## ecemleafs

Reyna > mbappe > sancho. Settle down.


----------



## robertmac43

ecemleafs said:


> Reyna > mbappe > sancho. Settle down.



Davies > David > Reyna > Mbappe > Sancho*


I'm only joking...


----------



## SJSharks72

robertmac43 said:


> Davies > David > Reyna > Mbappe > Sancho*
> 
> 
> I'm only joking...



Pulisic>Adams>McKennie>Davies>David>Reyna>Mbappe>Sancho


----------



## YNWA14

SJSharks39 said:


> Pulisic>Adams>McKennie>Davies>David>Reyna>Mbappe>Sancho



Now you’re just being unrealistic.


----------



## SJSharks72

YNWA14 said:


> Now you’re just being unrealistic.



You’re right I forgot Daniel Leyva at the very front and Reyna ahead of Davies/David


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@YNWA14, Pherai was on the bench today due to a lot of players missing. But I doubt he’ll play as long as Favre is the coach.


----------



## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> @YNWA14, Pherai was on the bench today due to a lot of players missing. But I doubt he’ll play as long as Favre is the coach.



I have him on my watch list. Biggest concern for me is that he reminds me a bit of Chong in that he's very talented but seems best as a 10 which seems to be a fading position in today's football. Not sure he can really cut it at an elite level on the wings; maybe as a creative midfielder (think he'd need to improve in a few areas to do well there)...but I haven't followed him as closely the guys coming up in the Eredivisie.


----------



## Cassano




----------



## SJSharks72

Cassano said:


>




That list isn’t great.... Eduoard isn’t really near the top or at least shouldn’t be.


----------



## Evilo

This poll was made on a very good Twitter account. Camavinga won. Kamara was second, Cherki third, Caqueret 4th.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> This poll was made on a very good Twitter account. Camavinga won. Kamara was second, Cherki third, Caqueret 4th.




Is Geubbels still any good?


----------



## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


> This poll was made on a very good Twitter account. Camavinga won. Kamara was second, Cherki third, Caqueret 4th.



That looks a lot closer.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Is Geubbels still any good?



Excellent. But injured. At this point, many have forgotten about him.


----------



## Evilo

SJSharks39 said:


> That looks a lot closer.



Yeah but I'd rank Saliba above Kamara. Kouassi is around the same level too. And it's tough to compare with Caqueret and Cherki given their different positions.
If I'm thinking about who I'd pick to start a team I'd go :
1/ Cherki (huge ceiling, but riskier, his position also influences)
2/ Camavinga (can't do much better)
3/ Saliba (as solid as they come)
4 tied : Kamara and Kouassi. Both are great technically. Kouassi is quicker, Kamara may be stronger. Both can play DM.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Vasilevskiy

Which player do you compare him stillistically? Reminds me from that video a bit of Fekir


----------



## Evilo

Frankly? Cristiano Ronaldo in his first United years (meaning more of a dribbler than a scorer).


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Cherki... a slower Neymar... his creativity and audacity in his dribbling are stupendous!


----------



## John Pedro

I see more Hazard than Neymar or CR7, tbh


----------



## les Habs

@John Pedro Thoughts on Brazao?


----------



## Cassano

John Pedro said:


> I see more Hazard than Neymar or CR7, tbh



This his awkward, but effective dribbling reminded me of Hazard


----------



## YNWA14

He also seems like more of a goal threat than young Ronaldo, and a better dribbler.


----------



## John Pedro

les Habs said:


> @John Pedro Thoughts on Brazao?




The keeper, Gabriel Brazao? I haven't watched him in Europe, but he was crazy good for Cruzeiro youth team. 



Cassano said:


> This his awkward, but effective dribbling reminded me of Hazard




Me too. The way he carries the ball and kinda slows the pace to take on defenders is very similar to Hazard's, but he also more creative in his passing and even dribbling. There's some Ben Arfa there too.


----------



## Evilo

Young C. Ronaldo was a fantastic dribbler.


----------



## YNWA14

Jamal Musiala is training with the Bayern first team. He got his pro debut recently with Bayern II in the 3rd league. He scored 2 goals in his last game for them.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Since the season is over, I thought I'd give an overview of the Dortmund academy.

*2000:* Almost nothing left here. Raschl is part of the first team and has impressed in preseason and friendlies, but I think he may be the last field player on the depth chart under Favre. He hasn't played all season. I'm not sure he's good enough to make it at Dortmund, but it'd be nice to see him get a runout. He'll probably go out on loan somewhere next season.

*2001: *Unbehaun missed the first two months of the season due to injury. He's co-third keeper right now, but the other guy isn't a real prospect and is there more for training, so he's third keeper in the real pecking order. I think he's going to need to go out on loan next season. I think there's a good chance that he could come back to Dortmund in 2-3 years and get playing time because I do think he's going to be a good keeper, but he's not going to be given playing time anytime soon.

Outside chance for Pherai to get into the first team. He's supposedly going to be on the first team next season, although I've not seen an official announcement. But he'd likely have a similar spot to what Raschl had this season. I think Reyna skipping right over him into first team playing time in the second half of this season was the writing on the wall for him. Bakir isn't bad either, but he's supposedly going to be playing with the second team next season, which is indication he's not viewed as an eventual first team guy.

*2002: *Obviously Reyna is now playing with the first team. He plays nearly every game, but hasn't yet started. He was supposed to start a few weeks ago, but got injured in warm up. Favre is a big fan of his. I don't know if he's yet justified all the playing time and trust Favre has in him, but he also hasn't looked out of place. The biggest challenge for him will be playing time, especially if Favre isn't the coach next season. There are still a lot of options in front of him that are better than him.

Bafounta has been injured for over a year now. It's too bad because he was supposed to be very talented. I don't think anyone knows what his current game is like because he hasn't played in so long. He still has another year in the U19's to prove himself, if he can get fit. Hetemi had some early hype, but hasn't been as good as expected. I think he has a chance to get a first team contract, but doesn't look like the caliber of player that will be given anything but a training role with the team. Knauff is also pretty good, but probably not good enough either for a real role in the team.

*2003: *There's no one great in this age group that'll definitely be a first team player. The best is probably Lutke-Frie, who is very versatile and productive. I think he'll definitely at least get a first team contract, but he might not be good enough to get games. Semic, Gurpuz and Fink are some other talented players. None are elite guys, at this point, but we'll see where their games are at in another year.

*2004:* Everyone knows about Moukoko and Collins. Moukoko is probably the most hyped youth player in the world in any age group, but Collins could be better eventually. Both players are going to be given a chance to break through at some point. Moukoko might get a shot sometime next season. Collins is probably more likely to get games the season after that. Cisse, Bamba, Mrosek, Walz are some other promising names in this age group. It's too early to say whether they'll be first team players.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## robertmac43

Montral Impact signed 16 year Keesean Ferdinand out of their academy. Youngest player to come out of the academy and he was the first player to come through Montreal's 'Pre-Acadamy' system. He looked solid last year at the U-17 WC, hoping he can progress even further with his first pro-contract.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

robertmac43 said:


> Montral Impact signed 16 year Keesean Ferdinand out of their academy. Youngest player to come out of the academy and he was the first player to come through Montreal's 'Pre-Acadamy' system. He looked solid last year at the U-17 WC, hoping he can progress even further with his first pro-contract.




What I wonder is where all these kids are going to play for the time being.

We have the same problem as you guys. These kids already lost a few months of their season, which doesn't help. There are now rumors that the new MLS academy league and USL academy league are both going to line up with their senior league's 2021 schedule, so that leaves these kids without anywhere to play for the time being. Also, some of the MLS teams with USL clubs have said they are opting out of fielding USL teams for the rest of the season. I'm hoping there's a reversal on both of these fronts, and we see them operate in 2020. I suspect the CPL youth programs could be similarly effected, as they probably have even less money than MLS/USL clubs.

What I'd hope is that a kid like this doesn't go a full year without a structured league to play in. Maybe this guy in particular won't because he's now on a first team contract, but a player a year younger or a similarly talented kid without a first team contract would see their development suffer a lot from a year without a structured set-up.


----------



## Cassano

robertmac43 said:


> Montral Impact signed 16 year Keesean Ferdinand out of their academy. Youngest player to come out of the academy and he was the first player to come through Montreal's 'Pre-Acadamy' system. He looked solid last year at the U-17 WC, hoping he can progress even further with his first pro-contract.



Ferdinand you say? Interesting...


----------



## robertmac43

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> What I wonder is where all these kids are going to play for the time being.
> 
> We have the same problem as you guys. These kids already lost a few months of their season, which doesn't help. There are now rumors that the new MLS academy league and USL academy league are both going to line up with their senior league's 2021 schedule, so that leaves these kids without anywhere to play for the time being. Also, some of the MLS teams with USL clubs have said they are opting out of fielding USL teams for the rest of the season. I'm hoping there's a reversal on both of these fronts, and we see them operate in 2020. I suspect the CPL youth programs could be similarly effected, as they probably have even less money than MLS/USL clubs.
> 
> What I'd hope is that a kid like this doesn't go a full year without a structured league to play in. Maybe this guy in particular won't because he's now on a first team contract, but a player a year younger or a similarly talented kid without a first team contract would see their development suffer a lot from a year without a structured set-up.



It's definitely an unfortunate year for NA youth .

What sucks for Canadian Soccer is the CPL has created the first viable stepping stone for young Canadians. Between promoting players from the top Provincial leagues, open trials, and drafting out of U-Sports; there are many more ways to get a pro-contract. U-sports, OSL, and QSL have all shut down for the Fall, effectively stunting our pipeline that only just got off the ground.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Chris Richards, 2000 American born CB, debuted for Bayern today. He probably won’t be there next season. I think they’ll loan him out, but I think he’s going to be pretty good once he finds a place to play in the pro game.


----------



## Savant

Do any of the German folks know anything about Melkamu Frauendorf from Hoffenheim?

@Pavel Buchnevich @Deficient Mode ?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Sorry, I don't.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Yeah can't say I've heard of him before the Liverpool rumor today.


----------



## Savant

I wasn’t sure that he was real. 

all I found out was that he is half Ethiopian


----------



## robertmac43




----------



## YNWA14

robertmac43 said:


>




Never heard of him but I can find out more about him. Two of my buddies are coaches at Futuro.


----------



## robertmac43

YNWA14 said:


> Never heard of him but I can find out more about him. Two of my buddies are coaches at Futuro.



Sounds great to me! Would love to hear more about him.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@Duchene2MacKinnon


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> @Duchene2MacKinnon




He looked the part.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> He looked the part.




He also has the prime-Messi mullet.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> He also has the prime-Messi mullet.



He also debuted on Messi's birthday and was born in the year Lio made his debut for Barca. Let's hope that's not the only connections.


----------



## YNWA14

How a Soccer Star Is Made

Not sure if many of you remember this article. Either way in a really neat story the 5 year old spoken of in the article as a prodigy, Delano van der Heijden, has signed his first contract with Feyenoord (not Ajax, as it turns out). He's quite talented and still playing up age groups so we'll see how far he goes but pretty cool that he's come from a 5 year old being scouted and written about to a real talent and prospect.

I also feel very old suddenly.


----------



## YNWA14

robertmac43 said:


> Sounds great to me! Would love to hear more about him.



Yeah so it turns out he was Noah’s coach while he was there. Very quick, good feet, good work ethic. Played CM at Futuro but sounds like he’s been moved to fullback in Europe. He had a trial with Arsenal a few years back also.


----------



## Savant

Man City calling up Jayden Braaf to train with their first team. 
Probably their top prospect. Maybe he gets some minutes with the league settled.


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Man City calling up Jayden Braaf to train with their first team.
> Probably their top prospect. Maybe he gets some minutes with the league settled.



Yeh, top tier talent. Questionable game sense though so will be interesting to see how he adjusts to not trying to take on the other team entirely by himself. Great dribbler, fast, good finishing and when he wants to he can pass pretty well. Tunnel vision could be a problem. Still, he's very good and it'll be interesting to see if he actually gets an opportunity at City or not.

Anderlecht have said they're going to try and keep Jeremy Doku at all costs, which is too bad because I know Liverpool have tried to sign him before.

Lisandru Tramoni looks very talented out of AC Ajaccio. Haven't seen too much of him but PSG tried to sign him and other big clubs have been sniffing around.


----------



## robertmac43

Balogun wants to move on from Arsenal if they don't give him more opportunities in the first team. Been one of the academies more prolific players in recent times.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Savant said:


> Man City calling up Jayden Braaf to train with their first team.
> Probably their top prospect. Maybe he gets some minutes with the league settled.




I'm going to slightly disagree. Jamie Bynoe-Gittens is their best prospect. Saw him play a U17 international tournament that included Spain, England, USA and Denmark. The clear standout at the tournament, in my opinion. 

He's two years younger than Braaf, so it might take a few years before he's into the first team.


----------



## Cassano

robertmac43 said:


> Balogun wants to move on from Arsenal if they don't give him more opportunities in the first team. Been one of the academies more prolific players in recent times.



Yet they’ll give a contract extension to David Luiz.


----------



## phisherman

Balogun wants playing time and has Nketiah, Auba, Laca, Marin Nelly and TJJ ahead of him.


----------



## Cassano

phisherman said:


> Balogun wants playing time and has Nketiah, Auba, Laca, Marin Nelly and* TJJ ahead of him*.



When did this happen?

This is Mavididi/Malen 2.0.


----------



## phisherman

Cassano said:


> When did this happen?
> 
> This is Mavididi/Malen 2.0.




When TJJ was ahead of him in the reserves, was part of their pre season training team and went out on loan and starting on loan.


----------



## Cassano

phisherman said:


> When TJJ was ahead of him in the reserves, was part of their pre season training team and went out on loan and starting on loan.



Meh, he's a way better talent and has a significantly higher scoring rate.

I don't trust Arsenal with letting their prospects go. Gnabry, Malen and Bennacer are 100m+ in total value gone in recent seasons.


----------



## phisherman

Cassano said:


> Meh, he's a way better talent and has a significantly higher scoring rate.
> 
> I don't trust Arsenal with letting their prospects go. Gnabry, Malen and Bennacer are 100m+ in total value gone in recent seasons.




They all wanted to leave to play more. They weren't let go. It's more due to the office leaving contract extensions in the last minute. By they seem to do that with every player which is stupid.


----------



## Cassano

phisherman said:


> They all wanted to leave to play more. They weren't let go. It's more due to the office leaving contract extensions in the last minute. By they seem to do that with every player which is stupid.



Aubameyang is gone for sure and sorry TBH Nketiah is not the talent Balogun is as well. It's just stupidity.

It's like when they held onto Chuba Akpom and saw Malen leave.

I forgot to add Jeff Reine Adelaide, who was genuinely one of the most impressive players I've seen come up at Arsenal as a young player. He never got to play and now he's worth 30-40m. They gave garbage mins to a washed up Walcott and make signings like Lucas Perez.


----------



## phisherman

Surprised you didn't mention Yunus Musah.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Marc Jurado announced he’s leaving Barcelona for Man United. He’s a 16 yr old RB. I haven’t seen anything beyond highlights. Anyone have any insight? 

@Duchene2MacKinnon @les Habs


----------



## phisherman

Anyone know anything about this guy?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

East Coast Bias said:


> Marc Jurado announced he’s leaving Barcelona for Man United. He’s a 16 yr old RB. I haven’t seen anything beyond highlights. Anyone have any insight?
> 
> @Duchene2MacKinnon @les Habs



Dont know him tbh


----------



## Savant

East Coast Bias said:


> Marc Jurado announced he’s leaving Barcelona for Man United. He’s a 16 yr old RB. I haven’t seen anything beyond highlights. Anyone have any insight?
> 
> 
> Duchene2MacKinnon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dont know him tbh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Duchene2MacKinnon @les Habs
Click to expand...


I assume he is already better going forward than AWB


----------



## les Habs

East Coast Bias said:


> Marc Jurado announced he’s leaving Barcelona for Man United. He’s a 16 yr old RB. I haven’t seen anything beyond highlights. Anyone have any insight?
> 
> @Duchene2MacKinnon @les Habs




Nope. He was already linked with a move away and saw some highlights then.


----------



## JoemAvs

Kouassi is in Munich having his medical.
So looks like it will be official tomorrow at the latest.
If Alaba does not extend, he might even see playing time sooner than expected....


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

JoemAvs said:


> If Alaba does not extend, he might even see playing time sooner than expected....




Didn't Bayern already say he's staying this summer and they'd rather keep him one more season and let his contract expire than leave in a year on a free?


----------



## robertmac43

phisherman said:


> Anyone know anything about this guy?





I found this on him earlier. Not crazy amounts of information but at least gives a base: 
Emil Roback

Here are some highlights as well:


----------



## JoemAvs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Didn't Bayern already say he's staying this summer and they'd rather keep him one more season and let his contract expire than leave in a year on a free?




Nope. There have been a ton of bs rumors about the potential contract extensions and what will happen since before even Neuer got his deal done.
I remember 2 months ago when the same guy that just had the Sane transfer first had Thiago signing an extension in the next few days basically.

I would be surprised if they let Thiago and/or Alaba let walk for free unless there is no real market for these guys (which is possible due to their high salary demands and limited choices they would probably accept) at the price Bayern would want (probably atleast 35-40M each)..

Honestly Alaba as great as he has been as CB is somewhat replaceable if Hernandez can ever live up to his reputation and stay healthy.
Between him, Süle, Boateng, Pavard and Kouassi as well as the rumored interest in Upamecano as well as Davies stealing his LB spot for good, Bayern can afford to lose him.

Thiago would be tougher but between Kimmich (my dream of him going back to RB seems to be dead for good), Goretzka and Tolisso (if he stays), as well as Cuisance (if he stays) and potentially Kouassi, Bayern could also survive that assuming they use the money they get for these guys to bring in some replacements (Zakaria, Havertz (unlikely), Aouar, Upamecano, etc.).


----------



## YNWA14

Brewster is ready to take Origi’s spot next season if he can keep healthy.



Still a massive talent for me. Leading the Championship in goals since the restart or since he was loaned or something. Too lazy to look it up at this moment.


----------



## robertmac43

Love this move for all involved. Facchineri was great at the U-17s for Canada. 

Whitecaps FC loan Gianfranco Facchineri to Atlético Ottawa


----------



## Savant

@Evilo - know this guy?


----------



## Evilo

By name only. Is a U16 international but barely. So not quite estalished now.


----------



## JimboA

Another product from northwest Stockholm (Isak, Kulusevski) coming up and I really like what I've seen.



Was very close to sign with Feyenoord in March but decided to go with AIK.


----------



## robertmac43

Kid looks solid.


----------



## Ajacied

The lone standout when it comes to Dutch goalkeeping talents; Mikki van Sas from FC Utrecht, joined Manchester City this passed week. Hopefully he does well; Oranje desperately needs some quality between the posts. I’m just always hesitant about City’s youth development.


----------



## JimboA

While we're at it with some Nordic players, I can also mention Iceland's '03 Isak Bergmann Johannesson since there probably won't be any Icelandic posters here to talk about him. He has recently forced his way into the starting XI for the Swedish league leaders Norrköping:


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Much-hyped US U17 #10 Evan Rotundo signed with Schalke today after turning 16. He has a French passport, which allows him to go over earlier than most other players. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see him amounting to much. His development over the last year to year and a half has been very disappointing. His athleticism was always a main question, and it's even more of a question now. Small, slow, weak. He also has less attacking skills than I initially thought. Doesn't play enough in the final 20 meters of the pitch. 

I'll round up a few more young American transfers this window. Kobe Hernandez-Foster and Bryang Kayo are signing with Wolfsburg. Hernandez-Foster turned 18 last month, Kayo turns 18 this month. Both are supposed to go straight into the reserve team, even though they are U19 team eligible. I like Hernandez-Foster. Great attacking fullback. I think he'll definitely amount to something. Not so much for Kayo, in my opinion. Tremendous athlete from central midfield. Not much of a footballer though, from how I see it, unfortunately. 

There are some others signing with smaller clubs, but I'll leave it at that for now.


----------



## robertmac43

Right call but an unfortunate hit for TFC/Canadian development.


----------



## Eye of Ra

*Jens-Lys Michel Cajuste is a decent prospect, he plays for Midtjylland, denmarks best team. he got american parents but lived most his life in Sweden.*


----------



## YNWA14

Eye of Ra said:


> *Jens-Lys Michel Cajuste is a decent prospect, he plays for Midtjylland, denmarks best team. he got american parents but lived most his life in Sweden.*



Jeppe Kjaer looks like the one to watch out of Denmark right now.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Eye of Ra said:


> *Jens-Lys Michel Cajuste is a decent prospect, he plays for Midtjylland, denmarks best team. he got american parents but lived most his life in Sweden.*




Not eligible to play for the USA. He didn’t meet the criteria to be eligible at the time he was cap-tied by Sweden, so he’s permanently ineligible, barring a change in the FIFA rules.

His father is a naturalized US citizen, but that’s not good enough for FIFA and Cajuste never lived in the USA, so he doesn’t qualify as eligible to represent the USA yet. And the way the rules work, to retain future eligibility for another country, you must be eligible at the time of being cap-tied. FIFA is trying to crack down here on countries with very broad requirements for citizenship. Cajuste’s case isn’t broad, at all, but unfortunately he wasn’t eligible.

But I agree with you that he’s a good prospect. I was hoping he’d be eligible for the USA.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@SJSharks39, Seattle debuted a player in their reserves today born in 2005(!!), Reed Baker-Whiting. Really good player. He has a very bright future.


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> @SJSharks39, Seattle debuted a player in their reserves today born in 2005(!!), Reed Baker-Whiting. Really good player. He has a very bright future.



Seattle has some really fun young players coming up. Daniel Leyva and Alphonso Ocampo-Chavez are definitely the current headliners but I’m really excited about their future.


----------



## East Coast Bias

LB from Real. Anyone have a read on him?


----------



## robertmac43




----------



## ecemleafs

akinola has played a lot of games for the USA youth teams. big scorer in the youth internationals for usa. dont remember him being a highly though of prospect tho, but those are big returns for a 20 year old in MLS.


----------



## Eye of Ra

really hope he chooses canada. canada needs him more.


----------



## John Pedro




----------



## Cassano

John Pedro said:


>




You look at all the poor moves Lyon made recently and it probably washes out with this signings. Devastated that Arsenal weren’t able to secure him when being heavily linked for a year.


----------



## YNWA14

Cassano said:


> You look at all the poor moves Lyon made recently and it probably washes out with this signings. Devastated that Arsenal weren’t able to secure him when being heavily linked for a year.



He won’t be at Lyon long IMO. He’s pure dynamite.


----------



## ecemleafs

USA youth international Konrad de la Fuente scored twice for Barca B today in the Segunda B promotion playoff. 2nd goal was very nice.


----------



## les Habs

ecemleafs said:


> USA youth international Konrad de la Fuente scored twice for Barca B today in the Segunda B promotion playoff. 2nd goal was very nice.




Rumors that he was leaving but I think he's signed a new deal or will be.


----------



## ecemleafs

les Habs said:


> Rumors that he was leaving but I think he's signed a new deal or will be.



Yeah he resigned or at least bigsoccer yanks abroad is confident he did.


----------



## robertmac43




----------



## YNWA14

robertmac43 said:


>




Yeh...mentioned him before. He looks fantastially skilled but needs better end product.


----------



## Bures Elbow

Trincao is better.


----------



## Cassano

Bures Elbow said:


> Trincao is better.



Absolutely, but he is also almost 4 years older.


----------



## Bures Elbow

Cassano said:


> Absolutely, but he is also almost 4 years older.



He is, but he always had a bit more maturity to his game during those U17/U19 Euro wins..he has more of a natural brain so to speak. Really great link up play and creativity for Braga as well as his skill/shooting ability. Not to say Joelson can't learn that, but he's more of a natural talent who is frightening 1 v 1, and not sharp link up play between the lines and knowing when to cross etc.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Joelson reminds me of a 16 years old Raheem Sterling. Very direct and quick with his feet. Great dribbling skills.


----------



## SJSharks72

Angel Martinez heading from Sounders to Borussia Dortmund.

@Pavel Buchnevich


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

SJSharks39 said:


> Angel Martinez heading from Sounders to Borussia Dortmund.
> 
> @Pavel Buchnevich




I saw that rumor, but I don't think it's going to happen.

Mexican media is notorious for making stuff up. They have one of the worst medias in football. They link their players with every club imaginable. This guy doesn't even play for them at youth level, only has Mexican heritage, and they are still making this one up. I suspect its more likely Borussia Dortmund scouted him in a youth tournament, and has interest.


----------



## robertmac43

Brighton sign 18 y/0 Jensen Weir from Wigan. Has featured for both the Scottish and English youth teams over his international career. Potter seems to think highly of him which is a good sign.


----------



## Savant

Savant said:


> Do any of the German folks know anything about Melkamu Frauendorf from Hoffenheim?
> 
> @Pavel Buchnevich @Deficient Mode ?



Move to Liverpool confirmed. Still don’t know anything about him


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Evilo

Boubacar Fofana, highly touted OL youngster, has asked to leave Lyon. He never got a fair chance this year.
Garcia on a roll.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


>





It would've been stupid for him to not play with PSG or inside France this year. He can't move to another country for another full season. Losing a year of development sitting out because you can't yet play for the team you are signing with rarely works.

The real question will be what he does when he turns 18 in 2023, if he's still good and clubs around Europe want to sign him. If he's not playing by then, he might try to leave. He's already shown that he's willing to make demands of the club.


----------



## Evilo

Nah, he could have moved at age 16. Like many have.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> Nah, he could have moved at age 16. Like many have.




He's 15. He turns 16 in May. If he agrees to a deal with another club, he's sitting out a full season until he's turns 16 in May. PSG's not using him with their teams if he tells them he's gone in a year. And he's not allowed to do anything more than sporadic training periods and playing in exhibition games at the club he signs with outside of France until he turns 16.


----------



## Evilo

No he's not.
He can wait nicely until he's close to 16 and move and not announce anything before. Many players have done it.


----------



## ecemleafs

Karamoko Dembele scored his first senior goal in a Celtic friendly against Hibs yesterday. He looks like he will get a fair amount of games this year. 17 years old now.


----------



## YNWA14

ecemleafs said:


> Karamoko Dembele scored his first senior goal in a Celtic friendly against Hibs yesterday. He looks like he will get a fair amount of games this year. 17 years old now.



Feels like he's been talked about forever already. Hope he turns good; it's a lot of pressure for a young kid.


----------



## ecemleafs

YNWA14 said:


> Feels like he's been talked about forever already. Hope he turns good; it's a lot of pressure for a young kid.



antoine griezmann commented on karamokos instagram post bout scoring lol.


----------



## Savant

Curtis Jones named 2019/20 PL2 Player of the Season

Liverpool’s top prospect. Has scored in the PL and Domestic Cups in limited first team minutes this season. Club changing his kit number from 48 to 17 next season.

Neco Williams and Harvey Elliott should both figure into more first team minutes as well.

Two midfielders to keep an eye on. Leighton Clarkson (more of a 6) and Jake Cain (more of an 8)


----------



## YNWA14

Came here to post about Jones winning the Player of the Season also. Yeah, he's a gem. He doesn't get talked about with the likes of Foden, Greenwood and co. but he's in that bracket.


----------



## robertmac43

I guess we can officially say Jones is on Connolly's level


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I mentioned Jones recently and got no responses from anyone.

Kid is a complete baller. I know little about him, but every time I see him play he stands out.

I like Williams, as well. Liverpool knows what they’re doing with those two players. They might not get the same plaudits for their academy as the famous United or Chelsea academies, but TAA, Jones and Williams in a four year span of age groups is very good.

Can Jones play in the forward positions or is he only a central midfielder? It might make sense to play him as the main alternative to the starting front three next season.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

YNWA14 said:


> Came here to post about Jones winning the Player of the Season also. Yeah, he's a gem. He doesn't get talked about with the likes of Foden, Greenwood and co. but he's in that bracket.




Maybe he will be talked in that bracket when he proves he can do what Greenwood has.

Foden is exceptional IMO


----------



## YNWA14

Vasilevskiy said:


> Maybe he will be talked in that bracket when he proves he can do what Greenwood has.
> 
> Foden is exceptional IMO



Just have to watch him play really. Was talking about him for a while already.


----------



## Savant

Vasilevskiy said:


> Maybe he will be talked in that bracket when he proves he can do what Greenwood has.
> 
> Foden is exceptional IMO



I don’t really like comparing midfielders to strikers. Greenwood has a very high ceiling I think he’s probably the best prospect in England right now. 
Foden is exceptional as well, and he has a ton of hype, but Jones has a very similar skill set and position versatility. The highest difference is that this was Jones first season where he was physically ready. He might still need to put some weight on, but even as recent as last season he was a rail. Midfield is a tough place for minutes to come by at LFC right now, but I think he gets some burn at LW next season too; which is also what you can say for Foden.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Foden is suffering from the ridiculous depth that City has at AM, with David Silva and Sane gone that should open some more time for him


----------



## YNWA14

Yeah I suspect Foden will get more time than Jones next season but he's also a year older, though to be perfectly honest I wouldn't be surprised if Jones does end up getting the same amount of play given what he's shown already at the senior level. I already prefer him to Ox, and with the injury issues that run through this midfield (Hendo, Ox, Keita) the opportunity might be there, especially since he can play across the attacking strata as well.


----------



## Savant

Don’t know him but apparently has been known about in Poland since he was 12


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Don’t know him but apparently has been known about in Poland since he was 12




With those stats I will be very disappointed if he isn't at least the next R9. Ballon d'Or has his name penciled in for 2025 already.


----------



## Evilo

Isaac Lihadji is impressing A LOT in his first few Lille minutes (friendlies).


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

In 20 years, kid's will grow up wanting to wear #18.


----------



## Ajacied

Ajax close to buying Jeppe Kjaer (16 - Danish). Anyone has more info on this supposed talented winger?


----------



## YNWA14

Ajacied said:


> Ajax close to buying Jeppe Kjaer (16 - Danish). Anyone has more info on this supposed talented winger?



Jeppe Kjaer


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Kjaer is a huge prodigy. Probably the biggest from Denmark since Viktor Fischer. Hopefully he ends up better.


----------



## Ajacied

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Kjaer is a huge prodigy. Probably the biggest from Denmark since Viktor Fischer. Hopefully he ends up better.




The more I read about him the more I like him. With Eskild Munk Dall and Rasmussen, Ajax already has two high profile Danish talents within their ranks. Let’s hope they pan out like Eriksen instead of Boilesen or Fischer.


----------



## YNWA14

Fischer was never the same after his injuries.


----------



## Ajacied

It were never injuries with Fischer.

Fischer never had the right mentality. De Boer quickly opted for Amin Younes instead.

Andersen was also one of those highly touted Danish players who never lived up to their potential’


----------



## Evilo

Not sure what Donnarumma is here for.
Backline is logical, with two french CBs since that's a position where France is crazy deep.
Midfield is offensively oriented, Camavinga should be here (instead of Nkunku?).
Two wingers are fine.
Mbappe/Haaland are there too.

I know its based on marks and Whoscored is not very good at rating players, but in the end, this team makes sense except for goalie and DM. And Mbappe is WAY above anyone in terms of average rating, but then again, he's way above anyone U21.


----------



## gary69

Don't remember the pre-covid break games exactly, but Donnarumma played well after the restart. Which U-21 keeper would you have selected instead?


----------



## Blender

Evilo said:


> Not sure what Donnarumma is here for.
> Backline is logical, with two french CBs since that's a position where France is crazy deep.
> Midfield is offensively oriented, Camavinga should be here (instead of Nkunku?).
> Two wingers are fine.
> Mbappe/Haaland are there too.
> 
> I know its based on marks and Whoscored is not very good at rating players, but in the end, this team makes sense except for goalie and DM. And Mbappe is WAY above anyone in terms of average rating, but then again, he's way above anyone U21.




It's purely based on WhoScored ratings, and defensive midfielders don't get those rating boosts as easily as a more progressive player like Nkunku, who also had a good season. Camavinga had a 7.12 rating, who he was very good but below Havertz and Nkunku there.


----------



## Blender

Chelsea's development squad won again.


----------



## Evilo

gary69 said:


> Don't remember the pre-covid break games exactly, but Donnarumma played well after the restart. Which U-21 keeper would you have selected instead?



Hmmm.. 
I don't know.. 
Lafont?


----------



## gary69

Evilo said:


> Hmmm..
> I don't know..
> Lafont?




I only saw a handful of Nantes games, so a small sample size, but based on those I wouldn't put Lafont ahead of Dommarumma just based on results and performances in this season. But maybe he did great in other matches. Did he get great grades (etoiles) in France this season?


----------



## Evilo

He's U21 starter for Ligue 1.
But yeah he's been good but not great. 
I'm thinking out loud really. 
Not many U21 goalies starting.


----------



## Blender

Evilo said:


> He's U21 starter for Ligue 1.
> But yeah he's been good but not great.
> I'm thinking out loud really.
> Not many U21 goalies starting.



Aaron Ramsdale still probably qualifies as well, he turned 22 in May. He played for a dumpster fire relegation side in Bournemouth though.


----------



## Ajacied

Mohamed Sankoh (ST - 16) from Stoke opts for Stuttgart over Chelsea, Barca, Atletico among others. Wise decision. Strong, powerful striker who was part of the U17 that won Euro U17 as a 15 year old.


----------



## Evilo

So now every sports newspaper in Europe is talking about Maxence Caqueret. You HFboards people can't say you haven't known about him for years now.
He's absolutely awesome.
Here are some extracts of him yesterday


And this doesn't show his 90 minutes pressing and positionning.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Another of the upcoming English generation. 18 years old at PSV. Should be in for a big season.


----------



## YNWA14

Yep have mentioned Madueke a few times on here. He looks very good.


----------



## Venkman

Good to hear about Caqueret and Madueke, drafted them both.


----------



## YNWA14

Also remember the names Pablo Paez Gavira, Antoni Milambo and Olivier Aertssen.


----------



## Ajacied

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Another of the upcoming English generation. 18 years old at PSV. Should be in for a big season.





He’s been progressing rapidly. He could very well start next to Malen next season. Though Maxi Romero is now finally fit as well. PSV has a lot of rough diamonds up front. Interesting season for them, especially with their new coach.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Ajacied said:


> He’s been progressing rapidly. He could very well start next to Malen next season. Though Maxi Romero is now finally fit as well. PSV has a lot of rough diamonds up front. Interesting season for them, especially with their new coach.




I like their coach, as well. I wanted him to Favre at Dortmund.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Ajacied said:


> He’s been progressing rapidly. He could very well start next to Malen next season. Though Maxi *Romero *is now finally fit as well. PSV has a lot of rough diamonds up front. Interesting season for them, especially with their new coach.



I thought he went back to Argentina?


----------



## Ajacied

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I thought he went back to Argentina?




He did on loan. Now back and healthy.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich




----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Ansgar Knauff (18) made the first team training camp roster for Dortmund.

He's a winger with very good athleticism and dribbling ability. Some think he could be a good offensive RWB. Usually we don't take youngsters to the training camp for no reason. I suspect he'll join the first team at some point between now and the start of the 2021-22 season.


----------



## JimboA

Emil Roback ('03) is close to sign with Milan. What's interesting here is that Zlatan is part-owner of Hammarby and practiced with him during the spring.



Could also mention that Milan signed Malmö's 2004-born Lukas Björklund a month ago.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

> "Moukoko is much better than I was at his age," Haaland told reporters in Dortmund's Bad Ragaz training camp. *"I have never seen such a good 15-year-old in my life."*




Erling Haaland: "Youssoufa Moukoko's better than I was at 15"


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I can't see how he isn't a starter this season. Looks like a complete difference maker already.


----------



## Ajacied

Unuvar, Rensch, Taylor and Brobbey will attend Ajax training camp. I think all could see minutes with 5 substitutes possible during the season.

Also:


Sick goal by Pherai training with the first team.


----------



## YNWA14

Ajacied said:


> Unuvar, Rensch, Taylor and Brobbey will attend Ajax training camp. I think all could see minutes with 5 substitutes possible during the season.
> 
> Also:
> 
> 
> Sick goal by Pherai training with the first team.




Most interested in seeing how Rensch and Taylor get on as they move up. Not worried about Unuvar though he has disappointed a little bit at times. I'm not super high on Brobbey but he'll score some goals.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Pherai played well in the first exhibition match, but he missed an empty net. 

He’s probably not going to play any though during the season. Sounds like he’ll go out on loan.


----------



## Ajacied

YNWA14 said:


> Most interested in seeing how Rensch and Taylor get on as they move up. Not worried about Unuvar though he has disappointed a little bit at times. I'm not super high on Brobbey but he'll score some goals.




Ten Hag played Rensch at LB vs Utrecht during their exhibition match two days ago. With Salah-Eddine out for months, Ten Hag is looking for other options from within in case Tagliafico still leaves. Rensch is a right footed CB, so that experiment failed miserably. I hope Rensch attends training camp in the hope he also has a shot at CB, as LB isn't right for him. He, Timber, Alvarez and Schuurs all fight for that spot next to Blind. Rensch has the most upside, but Timber impressed me the most out of those four. Alvarez really never was worth the 15M and Schuurs can have stretches where he plays so dominant, but he has too many costly hick-ups in his game still.

Taylor could see some minutes this season because there's a lot of mediocrity at his position. Marin and Alvarez (also plays CDM a lot) have disappointed, Ekkelenkamp is meh and Eiting's progression has taken a real hit with all those injuries. I'm hopeful, but I realize he might have to wait another year before he can really fight for quality minutes. Martinez, Gravenberch and van de Beek will likely form midfield. Gravenberch himself hasn't won me over either, though. You can tell he has all the traits, but he still lacks confidence and smarts at this level. Frankly, Labyad has had the best preseason so far. He could start in favor of him.

As for Brobbey. Well, Ajax lacks a true #9. Tadic and Promes are wingers of origin. Ten Hag has played Traoré a lot, but he's been inconsistent in Ajax I. Brobbey could definitely see some time if Traoré fails to take his opportunities. We both have our doubts on Brobbeast, but I am still very interested to see how his goal scoring prowess translates to the big leagues. 

Unuvar had some magic moments vs Utrecht. He will hoover between Ajax and jong Ajax - working mostly on the physicality parts of the game and how to be more efficient with his unique skill set. 



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Pherai played well in the first exhibition match, but he missed an empty net.
> 
> He’s probably not going to play any though during the season. Sounds like he’ll go out on loan.




I hope he does. He's a very entertaining player I hope to see more of on a consistent base.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

The LB announcing his retirement as Sancho enters the box. This wasn't even against some 6th division cleaner who plays football on the weekends. This guy plays first division in Austria. The team lost a playoff to get into Europa League.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Evilo

I'm particularly high on : Upamecano, Kamara, Lacroix, Saliba and Kouassi.
But Kounde has been awesome. Disasi was quite something this year. Fofana too.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> I'm particularly high on : Upamecano, Kamara, Lacroix, Saliba and Kouassi.
> But Kounde has been awesome. Disasi was quite something this year. Fofana too.



Can I have like one


----------



## les Habs

Upamecano, Todibo, Fofana, Saliba and Badiashile are all on my keeper team.


----------



## Evilo

les Habs said:


> Upamecano, Todibo, Fofana, Saliba and Badiashile are all on my keeper team.



I have Kimpembe, Diop, Disasi, Kamara, Fofana, Lacroix and Mbe Soh.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> I have Kimpembe, Diop, Disasi, Kamara, Fofana, Lacroix and Mbe Soh.



You might want to add Billy Koumetio (also 2002) in there. Klopp singled him out for his performance at Camp Austria today. Not sure he gets his breakthrough this year but he is definitely on Klopp’s radar. Kid is huge.

also not a French guy but Sepp Van Der Berg has also impressed at Camp Austria. He looks a lot bigger than this time last year and has definitely not skipped leg day.


----------



## Evilo

Oh I have others names, especially among 2003, 2004 and 2005. But that's another matter.


----------



## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


> I'm particularly high on : Upamecano, Kamara, Lacroix, Saliba and Kouassi.
> But Kounde has been awesome. Disasi was quite something this year. Fofana too.



So I’ve noticed you don’t mention Konate as much as some of the others. Is there a particular reason or just that he’s been injured a lot of this season?


----------



## Evilo

Lots of injuries and lack of 1st team football so far in his career. High potential though.


----------



## Cassano

Tim Akinola joins the club

This player was signed without a trial, strictly stat based signing from what I've read. It'll be interesting to monitor his career.


----------



## YNWA14

The 6-year-old training at LFC - and is probably better at football than you

Have heard of this kid before, but didn't know he'd moved to Liverpool and was training there. Interesting.


----------



## bluesfan94

Do any of the Dutchies here (@Ajacied @YNWA14 et al) know anything about Salah-Eddine formerly of Feyenoord?


----------



## Ajacied

bluesfan94 said:


> Do any of the Dutchies here (@Ajacied @YNWA14 et al) know anything about Salah-Eddine formerly of Feyenoord?




Little. I know he was clubless for a few months and just joined Arsenal. Ajax was on the verge of signing him from Feyenoord last year as well. Was a major talent back then. Played in the U19 as a 15 year old. Appears to be a quality AM with questionable mentality.


----------



## Cassano

Ajacied said:


> Little. I know he was clubless for a few months and just joined Arsenal. Ajax was on the verge of signing him from Feyenoord last year as well. Was a major talent back then. Played in the U19 as a 15 year old. *Appears to be a quality AM with questionable mentality.*



Ah, he’ll fit in with the others.


----------



## Savant

Billy “The Kid” Koumetio. 17 years old. 

Liverpool's "big talent" hints at bright future to back up Klopp declaration


----------



## Live in the Now

Savant said:


> Billy “The Kid” Koumetio. 17 years old.
> 
> Liverpool's "big talent" hints at bright future to back up Klopp declaration




If he doesn't make the first team I'll be absolutely stunned.


----------



## Savant

Live in the Now said:


> If he doesn't make the first team I'll be absolutely stunned.



I mean there is def an opening at 4CB and we really need someone good in the air for that role. It says in the article I posted but for those that didn’t read or watch the friendly, Koumetio (at 6’3”) was dominating a 6’7” Stuttgart player on set pieces. Klopp clearly rates him too. Not going to say he gets that job, he probably is destined for the u23s, but the door is open.


----------



## YNWA14

When was the last time a 17 year old CB was a first team player? I'd be shocked. Sounds like he still has some issues in his game to iron out, but nice to see the glowing reviews.


----------



## Evilo

He has some issues in his head too.
From what I hear, not a very smart guy with very little patience.
The good news is that he comes from one of the best academies in the world.


----------



## Evilo

I was about to post that you have to keep an eye on El Bilal Toure of Reims this year. 
He was spectacular in the U20 CAN and in his first L1 minutes. 
Well 20 minutes into the Monaco Reims game he has 1 goal and 1 assist.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

American central midfielder Zach Booth (16) is signing with Leicester. Spurs and PSV were among the other clubs interested. He notably has an older brother, Taylor, at Bayern, whose progressing well. He plays very similarly to Taylor. Zach's a really well-rounded midfielder. Can play as a 6, 8 or 10. He was probably the most improved American prospect I saw last season. He wasn't a good prospect to start the 2019-20 season, but by the start of the 2020, he had made huge improvements to his game.


----------



## robertmac43

So the CPL is obviously still young league and we have not yet seen what players who get signed from the league can do in bigger environments, hopefully Estevez and Borges hit the ground running in this coming season. 

One to watch is Belgian 21 year old Paolo Sabak. He is probably the most technically gifted player the league has seen and is already showing he will need to take the next step following this year. Would not be surprised if he finds himself back at in the Belgian first division in the next window. Quality player! 

There are a good amount of other prospects at the moment. Shortlist of peak performers from u-21 league demographic would be; Abzi (LB, York 9), Sissoko ( MF, Wanderers), Choiniere (RM, Forge), Verhoven (CM, Pacific), Campbell (ST, Pacific), Neufville (LB, Ottawa). There are a couple more that have been impressive these are just the main names off the top of my head. I have watched most games and have been compiling notes on a lot of the players, I'll likely post something longer in here when the season is complete.


----------



## kabidjan18

Evilo said:


> I was about to post that you have to keep an eye on El Bilal Toure of Reims this year.
> He was spectacular in the U20 CAN and in his first L1 minutes.
> Well 20 minutes into the Monaco Reims game he has 1 goal and 1 assist.



I would keep an eye on him but he chose Mali over Cote D'Ivoire...


----------



## Evilo

Haha. 
You're talking to a French guy here! I know how it feels!


----------



## Evilo

Latest U20 french selection :
Bajic in goal (one of the best GK prospect in the world)
Defense with Saliba, Kouassi, Mbe Soh, Pembele, Zagre, that's crazy.
Midfield has wonderkid Aouchiche, fantastic 6 Joris Chotard, Massengo who's shining in England and wingers Mbuku and especially Lihadji.
Triple of awesomely talented strikers : Geubbels, Kalimuendo and Rutter.
You could make two amazing teams with those.


----------



## Savant




----------



## JimboA

JimboA said:


> Emil Roback ('03) is close to sign with Milan. What's interesting here is that Zlatan is part-owner of Hammarby and practiced with him during the spring.




Update: Made his debut today with 20 minutes against Novara and had an assist. Still think he will be with the primavera team most of the time though.


----------



## Savant

Billy the Kid has a legit chance to be the 4CB this season.


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Billy the Kid has a legit chance to be the 4CB this season.




Long since been a buzz? I mean...it seems pretty recent. Good for him though I hope he steps up.


----------



## YNWA14

Btw this was Musialowski's debut goal for Liverpool:


----------



## Savant

YNWA14 said:


> Long since been a buzz? I mean...it seems pretty recent. Good for him though I hope he steps up.



Maybe a bit of hyperbole but obviously rated. 

Made the bench more than once during cup fixtures last season, and a lot of those players are tipped to make a leap. 

Next season Clarkson and Cain. Hill was a player I had never heard of but apparently his stock is rising too. LFC have a lot of interesting midfielders in the academy right now.


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Maybe a bit of hyperbole but obviously rated.
> 
> Made the bench more than once during cup fixtures last season, and a lot of those players are tipped to make a leap.
> 
> Next season Clarkson and Cain. Hill was a player I had never heard of but apparently his stock is rising too. LFC have a lot of interesting midfielders in the academy right now.



Sounds like Balagizi, Stewart and Mabaya are the next big, big talents to me.


----------



## Savant

YNWA14 said:


> Sounds like Balagizi, Stewart and Mabaya are the next big, big talents to me.



Yeah. I’ve seen those names too. Think they are a little further out though. 2022/23ish


----------



## Cassano

Training with first team.


----------



## Ajacied

Cassano said:


> Training with first team.





Saw some sick training footage from him during his first few days. He’s a baller, just a mental headcase.


----------



## Cassano

Ajacied said:


> Saw some sick training footage from him during his first few days. He’s a baller, just a mental headcase.





Best Salah in England Imo


----------



## Cassano




----------



## les Habs

Cassano said:


> Best Salah in England Imo




"There's not a Salah in England who stays on his fee as much as this guy." Now that would have been good trolling.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

It sounds like Favre is a big fan of Immanuel Pherai. I don't see where his minutes will come, but its looking as if he'll stick around the squad for now.

Nnamdi Collins is a full year away. He's not even training very much with the first team. He won't play in the first team this season, as of now.

Ansgar Knauff's role is undetermined, but he's been very impressive. I think he'll be mostly with the U-19's, and might get a few games with the first team. Next year seems more likely that he's with the first team.


----------



## robertmac43

Kadin Chung (22) of Pacific FC is having a great tournament, probably the best CPL right back at the moment. I would not be surprised to see him get a Canada call up in the not so distant future.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Cassano

Evilo said:


>




Guendouzi also drew a penalty.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Hands off!


----------



## Cassano

Salah is making his first start for U21s


----------



## SJSharks72

Cassano said:


> Salah is making his first start for U21s



Y’all need to specify which Salah. I’m realizing I’m on the prospect thread now so never mind.


----------



## Evilo

History is being made.
Eduardo Camavinga, 17 years old, is celebrating his first french NT cap.


----------



## Smirnov2Chistov

How much potential does Fati have? I'm surprised he never wanted to represent Guinea-B. I get that Spain is the stronger country in international comps, but I'm surprised he didn't want to be *the guy* like a Ronaldo, Messi, etc.


----------



## Evilo

Cool under pressure, technically perfect, impossible to dribble without turning the ball over, pure class in passes, wins his challenges, always dangerous going forward.
And again, he seems to absolutely ignore pressure.

This man is the future of France midfield without a doubt.
Him and Caqueret will lead us to at least another WC during their career (with Mbappe, all those CBs and all).


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Evilo said:


> Cool under pressure, technically perfect, impossible to dribble without turning the ball over, pure class in passes, wins his challenges, always dangerous going forward.
> And again, he seems to absolutely ignore pressure.
> 
> This man is the future of France midfield without a doubt.
> Him and Caqueret will lead us to at least another WC during their career (with Mbappe, all those CBs and all).




Better than Pogba.. Yes I said it!


----------



## Peen

Does Canadian soccer have any insane U18s? Guys who can play European soccer within the next five years?


----------



## S E P H

Lads, is there any sort of site that shows the academy roster for clubs?


----------



## les Habs

S E P H said:


> Lads, is there any sort of site that shows the academy roster for clubs?




Some of the Spanish clubs' sites used to do this. Not sure anymore, but the clubs that come to mind went pretty deep with rosters. Not sure how up to date they were, but I know Barça's were pretty up to date. They also would do profiles for the B team, though I'd take the assessments with a grain of salt. Anyway, it can be very club dependent and again that may not be up to date or maintained over time.

Transfermarkt and Wikipedia also have some limited roster information.


----------



## YNWA14

Peen said:


> Does Canadian soccer have any insane U18s? Guys who can play European soccer within the next five years?



Dunno about insane, but the highest potential Canadian teens are probably Antoine Coupland, Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty, Jayden Nelson, Noah Abatneh (just moved to Lazio) and Kamron Habibullah...there's also Marcelo Flores (Arsenal youth) who's a dual that could be tempted to Canada maybe? But more likely to play for Mexico.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

YNWA14 said:


> Dunno about insane, but the highest potential Canadian teens are probably Antoine Coupland, Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty, Jayden Nelson, Noah Abatneh (just moved to Lazio) and Kamron Habibullah...there's also Marcelo Flores (Arsenal youth) who's a dual that could be tempted to Canada maybe? But more likely to play for Mexico.




The goalie for Vancouver is pretty good also.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

S E P H said:


> Lads, is there any sort of site that shows the academy roster for clubs?




For clubs in the big leagues, transfermarkt is pretty good. Club websites are sometimes very good for this, and sometimes terrible. For smaller leagues, sometimes the league will have a separate page for it.


----------



## East Coast Bias

I’ll take it. Kid can score goals.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Hands off!





Freaking Spain and Italy loves stealing talents from other countries


----------



## Evilo




----------



## ProPAIN

Evilo said:


>





Bro...shushhhhhh


----------



## Evilo

haha, I almost bid on him for several windows.
At least this time someone will have seen a few seconds before bidding on him


----------



## ProPAIN

Evilo said:


> haha, I almost bid on him for several windows.
> At least this time someone will have seen a few seconds before bidding on him




I would've as well, but then got Agoume, Moriba, and Aouchiche


----------



## Evilo

Nah you got Aouchiche from me !


----------



## ProPAIN

Evilo said:


> Nah you got Aouchiche from me !




I didn't say from free agency . Moriba wasn't a FA signing either.


----------



## Evilo

Gat ya.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Luka on the bench again... I think its safe to say he's a first team player now. Since the restart. He's still 15 years old! I thought in Spain you cant give contracts to anyone under 18? I'm confused as to how he can play but not complaining.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Poor luka clearly not physically ready for the senior side. Getting abused every time he touches the ball.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@Evilo, do you know anything about this guy?


----------



## Evilo

Supposedly a talented young player, but Housni is the prize right now in that age category.


----------



## Evilo

But ain't nothing new. BVB and Leipzig can't educate players by themselves so they raid french academies.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> But ain't nothing new. BVB and Leipzig can't educate players by themselves so they raid french academies.




It has more to do with Germany than any specific academy. France is producing better players than Germany. Most of the top young players at that age were not at the club from 8 or 9 years old in any of these countries. They were at smaller clubs and brought in later on. PSG and other French teams have more talent to pick from at these lower age groups than teams in Germany. Thats the way it is.


----------



## Evilo

Nope, the talent pool comes from academies.
Saying France is producing better players like this has no meaning.
It comes from better academies.


----------



## bluesfan94

Yeah, I don't think that it's any secret that France is going through a purple patch right now. Whether that's due to teaching (as @Evilo will say, particularly given his role (IIRC)), benefitting from immigration (certainly many upcoming French prospects have African backgrounds - and I want it to be clear that I think this is a good thing and all of those players are French; please do not take this post as me saying something I'm not), or just happenstance, who knows. The answer is probably a combination.

I was actually thinking about this earlier. Which countries do you think are in their ascendancy/a good spell of prospects and which do you think are not?

For good, I think the Netherlands, France, England, United States. For bad, I think Belgium (although this is more a return to normal), Uruguay (sell Belgium) Italy, maybe Spain. And then I'm sure for both, there are some other smaller countries, but I just don't know enough about them. I've also noticed that I've heard less about African/Asian prospects, particularly from countries that may be considered powers (Cote D'Ivoire, Ghana, Japan), but that might just be exposure.

I think Germany, Argentina, Brazil are just about normal.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Brasil are in a good spell. Belgium are normal. Spain fell off from their level in the early 2010s. Argentina are good/normal.


----------



## SJSharks72

bluesfan94 said:


> Yeah, I don't think that it's any secret that France is going through a purple patch right now. Whether that's due to teaching (as @Evilo will say, particularly given his role (IIRC)), benefitting from immigration (certainly many upcoming French prospects have African backgrounds - and I want it to be clear that I think this is a good thing and all of those players are French; please do not take this post as me saying something I'm not), or just happenstance, who knows. The answer is probably a combination.
> 
> I was actually thinking about this earlier. Which countries do you think are in their ascendancy/a good spell of prospects and which do you think are not?
> 
> For good, I think the Netherlands, France, England, United States. For bad, I think Belgium (although this is more a return to normal), Uruguay (sell Belgium) Italy, maybe Spain. And then I'm sure for both, there are some other smaller countries, but I just don't know enough about them. I've also noticed that I've heard less about African/Asian prospects, particularly from countries that may be considered powers (Cote D'Ivoire, Ghana, Japan), but that might just be exposure.
> 
> I think Germany, Argentina, Brazil are just about normal.



It’s so hard to decide who has a good generation coming up and who doesn’t because the expectations are shifted. For example, if the United States just had Pulisic and a bunch of let’s say max current Michael Bradleys coming up, it’s a good generations, but if you said the same about France, that’s a really bad generations. I don’t know if this makes sense. I do think Italy has some really good prospects coming up in Tonali, Barella, Sensi, etc (top 3 that come to mind but obviously there are others) but for a team with WC aspirations, it’s not great.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> It’s so hard to decide who has a good generation coming up and who doesn’t because the expectations are shifted. For example, if the United States just had Pulisic and a bunch of let’s say max current Michael Bradleys coming up, it’s a good generations, but if you said the same about France, that’s a really bad generations. I don’t know if this makes sense. I do think Italy has some really good prospects coming up in Tonali, Barella, Sensi, etc (top 3 that come to mind but obviously there are others) but for a team with WC aspirations, it’s not great.



I agree with what you're saying. I think you have to judge them on their own history. 

Side note, I wouldnt say Italy is in good spell based on their history but they had some dark years the last few years so, this is a step in the right direction. With 2 of the players named they're not prospects. mid 20s and the latter is often injured.


----------



## bluesfan94

SJSharks39 said:


> It’s so hard to decide who has a good generation coming up and who doesn’t because the expectations are shifted. For example, if the United States just had Pulisic and a bunch of let’s say max current Michael Bradleys coming up, it’s a good generations, but if you said the same about France, that’s a really bad generations. I don’t know if this makes sense. I do think Italy has some really good prospects coming up in Tonali, Barella, Sensi, etc (top 3 that come to mind but obviously there are others) but for a team with WC aspirations, it’s not great.



Yeah, I mean compared to their relative level. America doesn't normally have a generation of u23 players who will be playing at Juventus, Dortmund, Chelsea, Ajax, and Barcelona. So with Italy, there are a couple decent players, but given that they've won a World Cup (recently, even), it seems like they're below their level. 


Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Brasil are in a good spell. Belgium are normal. Spain fell off from their level in the early 2010s. Argentina are good/normal.



Belgium seems like their back to normal but they're not going to be producing a De Bruyne/Hazard type generation. Which, of course, was their golden generation.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Yeah, I don't think anyone excepts KDB/Hazard types anymore. 

The next KDB is in Argentina his name is Palacios.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I think Germany and Argentina would go into the bad category.


----------



## bluesfan94

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I think Germany and Argentina would go into the bad category.



you're just asking for a @cgf rant

That said, I do think that Germany is in a bit of a dry spell, although they do have a couple really promising talents.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I think Germany and *Argentina* would go into the bad category.



Definitely not... It's underrated if anything.

Cb's 
Perez
Senesi
Martinez
Amione
Balerdi
Foyth
Romero
Martinez
Medina

Midfielders
Almendra
Palacios
Lo Celso
M.Palacios
Zaracho
Ascacibar
Dominquez
Vera

Attackers
Almada
Pedro
Zeballos
Lautaro
Luka
Dario
Velasco

Now most won't be world class but there's potential elite players there.


----------



## SJSharks72

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Definitely not... It's underrated if anything.
> 
> Cb's
> Perez
> Senesi
> Martinez
> Amione
> Balerdi
> Foyth
> Romero
> Martinez
> Medina
> 
> Midfielders
> Almendra
> Palacios
> Lo Celso
> M.Palacios
> Zaracho
> Ascacibar
> Dominquez
> Vera
> 
> Attackers
> Almada
> Pedro
> Zeballos
> Lautaro
> Luka
> Dario
> Velasco
> 
> Now most won't be world class but there's potential elite players there.



What players do you see as potentially elite there? Not a dig at Argentina genuinely don’t know a lot of those players. I know you have high hopes for Lautaro, Palacios, and Ascacibar. Anyone else?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

SJSharks39 said:


> What players do you see as potentially elite there? Not a dig at Argentina genuinely don’t know a lot of those players. I know you have high hopes for Lautaro, Palacios, and Ascacibar. Anyone else?




All of this, except my post was meant as criticism.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> What players do you see as potentially elite there? Not a dig at Argentina genuinely don’t know a lot of those players. I know you have high hopes for Lautaro, Palacios, and Ascacibar. Anyone else?




I have lost interest in Ascacibar he can be serviceable but for now he's irrelevant until he gets healthy and a new agent. He won't be the new Masch sadly. Of the players mentioned the players with elite potential are Perez, Lisandro, Amione, Matias Palacios,Vera,Almada, Dario and the youngest Luka. Who knows how they will progress but the talent is undeniable.



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> All of this, except my post was meant as criticism.




Didn't take it as criticism just wanted to clarify they're definitely trending up not downwards. Especially given the past 15 years they could only muster forwards now they have elite talent elsewhere.


----------



## SJSharks72

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I have lost interest in Ascacibar he can be serviceable but for now he's irrelevant until he gets healthy and a new agent. He won't be the new Masch sadly. Of the players mentioned the players with elite potential are Perez, Lisandro, Amione, Matias Palacios,Vera,Almada, Dario and the youngest Luka. Who knows how they will progress but the talent is undeniable.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't take it as criticism just wanted to clarify they're definitely trending up not downwards. Especially given the past 15 years they could only muster forwards now they have elite talent elsewhere.



What do you think about Pedro de la Vega?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Didn't take it as criticism just wanted to clarify they're definitely trending up not downwards. Especially given the past 15 years they could only muster forwards now they have elite talent elsewhere.




And I should also clarify I wasn't meaning it as anything against you or anyone whose Argentine. It's my own personal opinion that Argentina is trending downward. 

I don't agree that Argentina has elite talent elsewhere. Where are these guys? Among U25 players, Lautaro is great, but then who else? Transfermarkt tells me the next most valuable players are Correa and Lo Celso. Thats not great. We don't know what players like Lisandro Martinez, Almada, Palacios, Zaracho, Perez, Luka, Foyth amount to. I'm not suggesting Argentina's going to start being terrible, but if I was to guess, things are not shaping up as any better than they were under Messi. 

And they should've been a lot better under Messi than they've been. They've been a huge underachiever. They had some really good players. It's true that it's a lot of forwards, but there have still been players like Mascherano, Otamendi, Rojo, Tagliafico, Demichelis, Zabaleta, Gago, Veron, Samuel, Heinze, Burdisso. Do the non-forwards project better than those guys? Not in my opinion, but you'd know better. I just don't see a proven great group of attackers, midfielders, or defenders for Argentina's upcoming generations. Prospects are magic tokens. They could develop, and they might not.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> What do you think about Pedro de la Vega?




He's very talented. He along with Almada broke out last year. From all accounts He's been the better of the two mostly because of the opportunity given. He's a fast, trickey winger. Not as talented as Almada but still has loads of talent himself. Whether he ends up Lavezzi or ADM well see but so far so good. 



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> And I should also clarify I wasn't meaning it as anything against you or anyone whose Argentine. It's my own personal opinion that Argentina is trending downward.




I don't see it but to each their own. Like I said they only had forwards. Only Masch was a great to elite non forward. The rest were good to average to trash.



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I don't agree that Argentina has elite talent elsewhere. Where are these guys? Among U25 players, Lautaro is great, but then who else? Transfermarkt tells me the next most valuable players are Correa and Lo Celso. Thats not great. We don't know what players like Lisandro Martinez, Almada, Palacios, Zaracho, Perez, Luka, Foyth amount to. I'm not suggesting Argentina's going to start being terrible, but if I was to guess, things are not shaping up as any better than they were under Messi.




Well you definitely should bank on transfermarkt. I don't even consider Lautaro the best Martinez lol. Lisandro is more talented than him and has a higher ceiling. Correa is ass. Lo Celso is good though. The rest are younger still playing in smaller leagues. So less know and their price is not accurate. For instance the price between Correa and GLC is only 9 million. Lisandro is 22 million who comes up with these numbers and why do they matter? Unless your Dest they should be irrelevant. You're right we don't know how good they will become but I will bet the house that Perez is going to end up being better than Otamendi. Lisanrdo better than Rojo. Etc.



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> And they should've been a lot better under Messi than they've been. They've been a huge underachiever. They had some really good players. It's true that it's a lot of forwards, but there have still been players like Mascherano, Otamendi, Rojo, Tagliafico, Demichelis, Zabaleta, Gago, Veron, Samuel, Heinze, Burdisso. Do the non-forwards project better than those guys? Not in my opinion, but you'd know better. I just don't see a proven great group of attackers, midfielders, or defenders for Argentina's upcoming generations. Prospects are magic tokens. They could develop, and they might not.




Rojo, Burdisso, Gago these guys suck. Ones a walking red card, ones is a clown but also a walking red card and the other is always in a wheel chair. This next crop will be good and it's a better generation that have came out recently. It's hard to judge these guys but of the players I mentioned 6 I am confident in that will be better than all but 2 of list you provided. Tagliafico doesn't make sense here because he has 2/3 tournaments he can play in. 

Again you're not wrong because we know how these guys will progress. However, we are judging prospects talent. This is the place to judge soccer prospects. How could one say they're trending down when the haven't had this abundance of youths coming up? Sure not all will make it but this is promising. And the original question was " Which countries do you think are in their ascendancy/a good spell of prospects and which do you think are not?".... so we most definitely are judging prospects where they are now and nothing else. Therefore Argentina are trending up.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I wasn't basing it on transfermarkt, but using that to help my point. I personally see a big difference between the U25 crop between Argentina and a country like Brazil or Netherlands or England, let alone France. 

And while we are talking about young players, some guys are more proven than others. Guys like Mbappe, Sancho, Haaland all probably count in this context, but they aren't the same as some kid with 3 first team appearances. For instance, Lautaro counts for Argentina in this discussion. He's a proven top level player. The others? Maybe Lisandro at Ajax, but the others still need to prove themselves. They might do it, but right now looking at it, I'm going to take a country who has guys who've proven themselves over a country that is relying on a bunch of unproven guys.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I wasn't basing it on transfermarkt, but using that to help my point. I personally see a big difference between the U25 crop between Argentina and a country like Brazil or Netherlands or England, let alone France.
> 
> And while we are talking about young players, some guys are more proven than others. Guys like Mbappe, Sancho, Haaland all probably count in this context, but they aren't the same as some kid with 3 first team appearances. For instance, Lautaro counts for Argentina in this discussion. He's a proven top level player. The others? Maybe Lisandro at Ajax, but the others still need to prove themselves. They might do it, but right now looking at it, I'm going to take a country who has guys who've proven themselves over a country that is relying on a bunch of unproven guys.



This doesn't make too much sense tbh. The question wasn't who had the best talent. I'd be the first to tell you how France's crushes Argentina. I say it weekly how I'm jealous of their Cbs/ Their 7th string would probably start for Argentina. ( hyperbole but you get the idea.) Anyone you compare to France will look like shit. It doesn't mean its not trending up. So, we're talking about something else entirely here. It's like if I said back in 2006 everyone's prospect sucks because it doesn't have Messi. We're not comparing prospects or talent the question was who's going up or down. 

They all need proving to do but again it's about trending up. Whether you take the other teams crop is also irrelevant. France is a given England too. Argentina however are not far off between the Dutch/brasil probably worse but not far off. Right now.Still irrelevant.


----------



## YNWA14

bluesfan94 said:


> I was actually thinking about this earlier. Which countries do you think are in their ascendancy/a good spell of prospects and which do you think are not?
> 
> For good, I think the Netherlands, France, England, United States. For bad, I think Belgium (although this is more a return to normal), Uruguay (sell Belgium) Italy, maybe Spain. And then I'm sure for both, there are some other smaller countries, but I just don't know enough about them. I've also noticed that I've heard less about African/Asian prospects, particularly from countries that may be considered powers (Cote D'Ivoire, Ghana, Japan), but that might just be exposure.
> 
> I think Germany, Argentina, Brazil are just about normal.



I think it's hard to really speak on something like this without being close to the ground or thoroughly following the youth level of each respective country, especially comparatively, but IMO...

I would agree with you about the Netherlands having an upswing, they have a good number of really talented young players coming through right now that are much better than the previous generation (post-Sneijder/Robben). I could list so many players thought of as big talents coming up but we'll see where they all land, personally I'm the highest on Misehouy and Milambo of the very far off youngsters, but guys like Ihattaren, Gravenberch, Hansen, Unuvar, de Ligt, Rensch, Schuurs, etc. etc. look to be building on an incredible generation themselves (I have very high hopes for Ihattaren and Hansen).

Belgium has never had a huge quantity of really high level talents so I think that they're still pretty normal, they've got some really high ceiling guys coming through now that may be ready to step in once de Bruyne is out of his prime, or shortly after (Doku, Lavia, Descotte, Kana come to mind on top of guys like Vranckx, Verschaeren, Vanheusden, etc...

I definitely agree about England...the talent they're churning out right now is pretty crazy. One of my favourite of theirs is Noni Madueke playing at PSV who stepped in with 2 key assists in less than half a game in their season opener, but they have a plethora of talent coming through atm.

Right now I'd say Germany is maybe a bit below what they're generally regarded at but they have some really top end talents coming through in the '03+ age range (on top of young studs like Kai, Werner, etc.). A guy I know very close to youth football in Germany was mentioning that they've started taking a greater interest in individual talent grooming on top of their typical structured team based approach so that should be interesting, you can already see that in an early example who broke out near the end of last season in Wirtz, but there are more coming.

I guess I would throw Canada into the 'on the up' category. I've mentioned my list of favourite prospects from Canada here before, but just the fact that there are actual youth talents coming out of Canada with a real future at all is a big step forward. To have one of the best young players in the world in Alphonso Davies is beyond what anyone would have expected. Everything else is gravy at the moment, but there's big momentum out of Canada right now to push forward and really build on it.

As always though there will be big failures from top talents, and huge success coming out of players that nobody has heard of yet, and at the end of the day it really remains to be seen how they all work together (or what managers end up trying to harness them).


----------



## bluesfan94

YNWA14 said:


> I guess I would throw Canada into the 'on the up' category. I've mentioned my list of favourite prospects from Canada here before, but just the fact that there are actual youth talents coming out of Canada with a real future at all is a big step forward. To have one of the best young players in the world in Alphonso Davies is beyond what anyone would have expected. Everything else is gravy at the moment, but there's big momentum out of Canada right now to push forward and really build on it.



This is very fair. I didn’t think to include them because it’s really two big names (albeit I’m sure there are more names at a lower but good for Canada level - and no shade meant there. That’s like me referencing Sargent at Bremen compared to Reyna at Dortmund), but having two big names is definitely a big deal.


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> Yeah, I don't think that it's any secret that France is going through a purple patch right now. Whether that's due to teaching (as @Evilo will say, particularly given his role (IIRC)), benefitting from immigration (certainly many upcoming French prospects have African backgrounds - and I want it to be clear that I think this is a good thing and all of those players are French; please do not take this post as me saying something I'm not), or just happenstance, who knows. The answer is probably a combination.
> 
> I was actually thinking about this earlier. Which countries do you think are in their ascendancy/a good spell of prospects and which do you think are not?
> 
> For good, I think the Netherlands, France, England, United States. For bad, I think Belgium (although this is more a return to normal), Uruguay (sell Belgium) Italy, maybe Spain. And then I'm sure for both, there are some other smaller countries, but I just don't know enough about them. I've also noticed that I've heard less about African/Asian prospects, particularly from countries that may be considered powers (Cote D'Ivoire, Ghana, Japan), but that might just be exposure.
> 
> I think Germany, Argentina, Brazil are just about normal.



The thing is it's nothing new for France. 
Right now it's peaking but France has produced young phenols for decades now. 
Ever since they chose to make the academies the center of their attention. 
Think about the 98/00 generation (Henry, Anelka, Vieira etc..) then the next who was supremely talented but not there in the head (Nasri, Ben Arfa, Menée and then Benzema) and so on.
Take a look at Lyon who announced 10 years ago that their academy would be their main investment. 
Now they're considered among the top in Europe, the youth coaches are world class, and every YEAR they produce a potential world class player. And mostly from the Lyon area! 
Right now the depth is crazy but I'd say it's nothing new.
The French academies are the reason why France has likely been the number one football provider since the last 20 years.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> The thing is it's nothing new for France.
> Right now it's peaking but France has produced young phenols for decades now.
> Ever since they chose to make the academies the center of their attention.
> Think about the 98/00 generation (Henry, Anelka, Vieira etc..) then the next who was supremely talented but not there in the head (Nasri, Ben Arfa, Menée and then Benzema) and so on.
> Take a look at Lyon who announced 10 years ago that their academy would be their main investment.
> Now they're considered among the top in Europe, the youth coaches are world class, and every YEAR they produce a potential world class player. And mostly from the Lyon area!
> Right now the depth is crazy but I'd say it's nothing new.
> The French academies are the reason why France has likely been the number one football provider since the last 20 years.




How much do you think clubs like Lyon and PSG do with developing players? Do you think there was an excellent coach that turned Mbappe into a superstar from average raw talent at age 12 or do you think he already had incredible talent and they helped refine his talent?

Academies don't develop players in the sense of turning players of average talent into world class players. World class players come from the desire of these kids playing a lot and developing their skills at a young age on their free time.

France is the best at this. They have a lot of kids whose way out of poverty is football, they are a big country, a country with a good sporting history, a good footballing history, a population very interested in football, and a very diverse population to pull from. These players don't come from anything substantial that Lyon, PSG, Marseille, Monaco are doing. Those clubs help these top talents at the margins, and help them break through from talented players to good professional footballers. Thats still important, but that is not the main reason why France is the best in the world right now.


----------



## Evilo

You think players develop their skills IN THEIR FREE TIME? Rather than with good educators and academies?

Why is you think that a team like Le Havre develops more class players alone than half of the EPL academies? Because of the free time of those kids?
Why do you think a town like Lyon produces so many homegrown (as literaly one hour away tops from Lyon) class players? Because of free time?
Then why do you think Lyon produces more players than say Marseille? Because football is a religion in Marseille and apparently they have as much free time?
Yet, OM has developped very few top level players.

It's really incredible to think teams just reap the benefit from players building themselves.
It's the academies that turn the players into what they are.

Mbappe comes from a little club (Bondy) which is famous for the quality of its educators.
Martial, Evra and Henry all went through the same educators in the same small club (Les Ulis) before entering their pro academies (and they went to a different academy).
That's not a coincidence.

We didn't have a good football history before the 80s. You can check on it. One single WC semi final, not a single Euro performance nothing. Then the Platini generation came up and the french league made it mandatory for every pro team to have a youth academy. That TOTALLY changed the concept of young footballers. You can look up on the internet, there are plenty of articles on this I'm sure.
France produced the blueprint on how leagues should look at youth competitions and academies.

And in the 90s, as I said, a conscious effort was made towards those academies, building every year towards more professionality and selections of great educators. Nantes was the star academy back then, but quickly many teams understood how the mandatory academies weren't a burden but rather a chance, especially since french teams couldn't compete financially with european teams (because of taxes and DNCG which forbid debts).
Lyon, coming out of their domination, understood that the academy was to be their main way to dominance. They formed good but very few players before the last 10 years. Since then, it's every year.
Here something to chew on using the OL example :
Giuly (1994)
Malbranque (1998)
Govou (1998)
Ben Arfa (2004)
Benzema (2005)
Remy (2006)
Lacazette (2010)
Lopes (2012)
Umtiti (2012)
Martial (2012)
Tolisso (2013)
Fekir (2013)
Aouar (2016)
Gouiri (2017)
Caqueret (2018)
Cherki (2019)

All internationals or for the last 3 bound to be. Majority of them comes from the Lyon area !
I think it's quite easy to see when Lyon made the big effort to focus on their academy, isn't it?
Lyon is 3rd among the top 5 leagues in number of pro players in the top 5 leagues (behind Real and Barca).
It's the 6th year Lyon has the best academy in France according to the league.
Why do you think? Because they have more free time in Lyon than in Paris, Marseille, Lille or Toulouse (the other top 4 cities in France)?
Why is Le Havre, Nantes, Rennes and others among the top academies when they're not among the top 5 citites?

The reason is the academy priority : technique over result. Good educators.
Someone like Ziani at Nantes (youth coach and former player), just a week ago, trashed the pro coach in the newspapers.
How would it stand in most leagues? Guy would be fired on the spot. Not here. The academy coaches are extremely important, especially when they're good.
We lack quality in pro coaches, but we're loaded in youth coaches.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I didn't say the clubs play no part, but the kids become talented on their own, and then the clubs help refine their skills.

If the clubs developed the players in the sense you suggest, USA, China, India, Canada, Japan would be purchasing the best youth coaches, having those coaches go into schools in the big cities, picking out the most naturally athletic kids, and then developing them into great footballers within a few years.

It doesn't work like that. Hypothetically, if I'm the best swimming instructor in the world and you are an adult who can't swim, I'm not going to make you into the best swimmer in the world. Thats not how any of this stuff works. With few exceptions, if a player hasn't become a big talent on their own by around 12-13, they will not become a professional footballer. It's widely known that technical and creative skills don't develop much after around 16-18. The more you play and the more situations you see, the better your tactical awareness will be. If you aren't already putting work into this before you are in your middle teen years, you will lack in this area. Athletically and physically are the areas that often develop later.

And France's immigration policies have played a large part in their success the last few decades. Same thing with England and Netherlands. There's nothing wrong with any of that. These countries expanded their talent pools with a more diverse set of athletes.


----------



## Evilo

Kids don't become talented on their own.
Otherwise you can't explain why Marseille area fails to produce players while Lyon area can.

Obviously, you don't know who Jean Marc Guillou is. He was a greta educator and decided to make a school in Ivory Coast. Well, guess what? It was that generational squad that was amazing a few years back.
So yes, educators make players, not the other way around.


----------



## Incubajerks

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I didn't say the clubs play no part, but the kids become talented on their own, and then the clubs help refine their skills.
> 
> If the clubs developed the players in the sense you suggest, USA, China, India, Canada, Japan would be purchasing the best youth coaches, having those coaches go into schools in the big cities, picking out the most naturally athletic kids, and then developing them into great footballers within a few years.
> 
> It doesn't work like that. Hypothetically, if I'm the best swimming instructor in the world and you are an adult who can't swim, I'm not going to make you into the best swimmer in the world. Thats not how any of this stuff works. With few exceptions, if a player hasn't become a big talent on their own by around 12-13, they will not become a professional footballer. It's widely known that technical and creative skills don't develop much after around 16-18. The more you play and the more situations you see, the better your tactical awareness will be. If you aren't already putting work into this before you are in your middle teen years, you will lack in this area. Athletically and physically are the areas that often develop later.
> 
> *And France's immigration policies have played a large part in their success the last few decades. Same thing with England and Netherlands. There's nothing wrong with any of that. These countries expanded their talent pools with a more diverse set of athletes.*




This is a big truth but they are way better than England and Netherlands, I don't know if this depends on the amount of the basin they have available but other nations should take an example. I also believe that many players are extremely overrated but this only will tell time.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> Otherwise you can't explain why Marseille area fails to produce players while Lyon area can.




I don't know why because I'm not all too familiar with the city beyond its football team, but it probably has to do with the culture around the city. Do the kids play other sports? Are residents wealthier in nature? Is the climate less conducive to playing football year round? Is it an area with less immigration? I'm sure there's a good reason and I'm sure it's related to the culture around Marseille.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Incubajerks said:


> This is a big truth but they are way better than England and Netherlands, I don't know if this depends on the amount of the basin they have available but other nations should take an example. I also believe that many players are extremely overrated but this only will tell time.




I'm not about to look up immigration data in all these countries, but African immigrants who speak French want to move to France, African immigrants who speak English want to move to England, African immigrants who speak Portuguese want to move to Portugal. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but I think thats also probably a fair general representation of the situation. Most of the familial backgrounds of black players for France, England, Portugal, and non-African countries with Netherlands, were African immigrants from former colonies of those countries.


----------



## Incubajerks

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm not about to look up immigration data in all these countries, but African immigrants who speak French want to move to France, African immigrants who speak English want to move to England, African immigrants who speak Portuguese want to move to Portugal. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but I think thats also probably a fair general representation of the situation. Most of the familial backgrounds of black players for France, England, Portugal, and non-African countries with Netherlands, were African immigrants from former colonies of those countries.




I agree that it has its weight, because it allows you to "fish" from an immense basin, but at some point the academies have to do their job and they are doing it very well in this era.


----------



## Ajacied

Incubajerks said:


> This is a big truth but they are way better than England and Netherlands, I don't know if this depends on the amount of the basin they have available but other nations should take an example. I also believe that many players are extremely overrated but this only will tell time.




The Netherlands only have a population of 17M, though. Pound for pound, they might produce the most talent and it’s been totally back again after an awful period.


----------



## YNWA14

Ajacied said:


> The Netherlands only have a population of 17M, though. Pound for pound, they might produce the most talent and it’s been totally back again after an awful period.



And they’ve been doing it for longer. If anyone set a blueprint for Europe it was them. They transformed the way many places approached player development.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I don't know why because I'm not all too familiar with the city beyond its football team, but it probably has to do with the culture around the city. Do the kids play other sports? Are residents wealthier in nature? Is the climate less conducive to playing football year round? Is it an area with less immigration? I'm sure there's a good reason and I'm sure it's related to the culture around Marseille.



Yes kids play sports and football is a religion.
Climate is great.
More immigration than Lyon area easily.

I told you the good reason.


----------



## Evilo

YNWA14 said:


> And they’ve been doing it for longer. If anyone set a blueprint for Europe it was them. They transformed the way many places approached player development.



Not really. Ajax started to produce class players in the 80s on a yearly basis. Before that it was much rarer.


----------



## ecemleafs

Players develop natural ball skills playing in the streets and playing with friends when they are kids. Great academies harness that talent and give it direction and teach talent how to apply it. Imo.


----------



## bluesfan94

I think it's a combination between natural talent (whether pure athletic, technical, or mental), education, and the desire of a player to get better. 

Early education is better, so the coaches of kids 6-10 are important.

So looking at a country, you should be looking at population, the importance of soccer in the country (all countries lose potential soccer stars to other sports, but some more than others), and youth coaches. Which is why I don't think it's unfair to note how France has benefitted from immigration (and, in a more macro view, its imperial past). Looking here, it would seem that almost all of the players are of foreign descent at some level. Is that a bad thing? Of course not. That's how the world should work. Of course, you can have all the natural talent in the world but if you don't have the coaches to discover, develop, and refine that talent, it doesn't matter.


----------



## Ajacied

Eh, Ajax dominated most of the 70's with 3 straight CL titles (and one quarter final and a semifinal finish) with a squad consisting mostly out of homegrown players. Players who are now regarded as amongst the best at their respective positions (Krol, Suurbier, Rep, Neeskens, Schrijvers, Cruijff). They were the main supplier of those legendary '74 and '78 Oranje WC teams. Before those years the massive talents coming out of the academy were a bit less frequent, I would agree, but football before totaal voetbal was a whole different, underdeveloped game. They still produced all time greats in Michels, Swart and Keizer prior to it.

Not to mention Ajax introduced the world to totaal voetbal together with Feyenoord, who used it on their way to the CL title in '69 themselves. The ideas and philosophies of Michels and Cruijff paved the way for the recent succeses of Barcelona and Spain. They most definitely set the blueprint for football in Europe.


----------



## Evilo

Haha, not really. 
The french federation making it mandatory to have an academy for every pro team was a first. And it paid dividends.


----------



## PansCyans




----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Miguel bastard 

he wants to play for Argentina because he’s Argentinian.


----------



## Evilo

18 and U18 players that have played in L1 this year, by minutes played.


----------



## YNWA14

Layton Stewart and James Balagizi were phenomenal in the u18 opener. Really nice to have the academy churning out talents like this seemingly consistently of late. I know those two are very highly rated internally.


----------



## phisherman

Tyreece John Jules goal for Charlton. Hopefully he will make losing Balogun less painful.


----------



## Evilo

Young PSG defenseman Louakima signed with Roma.


----------



## Savant

LFC 16yo James Balagizi is on the bench for the U21s today. He is still a couple of years away but he is thought to have one of, if not the highest ceilings in the academy. 

Some rumors that Layton Stewart 18yo is in the squad for the League Cup game on Thursday. He is thought to be the best striker in the academy. Rhys Williams CB may also be be in the League Cup squad. Probably right behind Koumetio for academy CB. He is another mutant sized 19yo who spent last season on loan in League Two


----------



## YNWA14

Sontje Hansen has re-signed with Ajax. Very happy about this; I very much rate him at the striker position.


----------



## Islay1989

Ajacied said:


> The Netherlands only have a population of 17M, though. *Pound for pound, they might produce the most talent *and it’s been totally back again after an awful period.




Eh, I don't know about that. Portugal has 10mil, Croatia around 4, Belgium has 11, Uruguay 3.5 etc.


----------



## YNWA14

Islay1989 said:


> Eh, I don't know about that. Portugal has 10mil, Croatia around 4, Belgium has 11, Uruguay 3.5 etc.



The Netherlands exports more talent than all of those countries.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Uruguay had a good stretch and at 3.5 million its hard to argue against that. Netherlands is up there though.


----------



## Islay1989

YNWA14 said:


> The Netherlands exports more talent than all of those countries.



The Netherlands has a pool 4 times bigger than the country that just finished 2nd in the WC and came in 3rd in 98. That country also produced a Ballon d'Or winner which is something the Netherlands hasn't been able to do in 28 years since van Basten did it. And where exactly do you get those figures, plus what constitutes talent? Every two-bit footballer that leaves Netherlands? I'd take a Modric over anything Netherlands produced recently. Same with KdB or Hazard. Or Suarez. Not to mention the likes of Ronaldo and the host of guys behind him for Portugal. Quality over pure quantity, and it's not like the quantity is lacking either. I mean who's the best player Netherlands produced in the last 15 years? van Dijk? Sneijder and his one amazing year? Robben?

PS

Croatia World's Biggest Exporter of Footballers Per Capita | Croatia Week


----------



## YNWA14

Islay1989 said:


> The Netherlands has a pool 4 times bigger than the country that just finished 2nd in the WC and came in 3rd in 98. That country also produced a Ballon d'Or winner which is something the Netherlands hasn't been able to do in 28 years since van Basten did it. And where exactly do you get those figures, plus what constitutes talent? Every two-bit footballer that leaves Netherlands? I'd take a Modric over anything Netherlands produced recently. Same with KdB or Hazard. Or Suarez. Not to mention the likes of Ronaldo and the host of guys behind him for Portugal. Quality over pure quantity, and it's not like the quantity is lacking either. I mean who's the best player Netherlands produced in the last 15 years? van Dijk? Sneijder and his one amazing year? Robben?



I don't understand what you're getting at listing legitimate World Class players as though that's some strike against the Netherlands? I mean, a lot of people think that van Dijk was deserving of the Ballon d'Or last season and more deserving than Modric was of his for example. Robben was among the best players in the world when healthy. Why would we only consider the very best players ever produced for the country anyway? Even if that were the only consideration the Netherlands have a long history of producing world class talent (you mentioned only a few of course). Are you really trying to argue that the Netherlands does not produce quality footballers but then go on to list van Dijk (with a big question mark) and Robben?


----------



## Islay1989

YNWA14 said:


> I don't understand what you're getting at listing legitimate World Class players as though that's some strike against the Netherlands? I mean, a lot of people think that *van Dijk was deserving of the Ballon d'Or last season and more deserving than Modric *was of his for example. Robben was among the best players in the world when healthy. Why would we only consider the very best players ever produced for the country anyway? Even if that were the only consideration the Netherlands have a long history of producing world class talent (you mentioned only a few of course). Are you really trying to argue that the Netherlands does not produce quality footballers but then go on to list van Dijk (with a big question mark) and Robben?




Bolded is hilarious. And check the link, Croatia produces more internationals in raw numbers - size of pool notwithstanding - than the Netherlands which has a pool roughly 4 times bigger than Croatia. And no, the point obviously wasn't that the Netherlands doesn't produce world class footballers, they obviously do, the point was that you made up something out of thin air and decided that the Netherlands is the biggest producer of talented - whatever the hell that means - footballers per capita based on what exactly? Pure conjecture that has no basis in reality.

PS

And I don't think Croatia is the biggest producer of talented footballers. France is, as it took the mantle form Spain. Historically speaking the only nations that have a claim at this title - as irrelevant as it is - are Brazil and Germany. Argentina while being blessed with the GOAT and Maradona didn't produce elite players at the rate these two did, while France got in on the act when Platini hit the stage. Italy might be a dark-horse, but I just don't rate them all that high outside of keepers and the back-line.


----------



## YNWA14

Islay1989 said:


> Bolded is hilarious. And check the link, Croatia produces more internationals in raw numbers - size of pool notwithstanding - than the Netherlands which has a pool roughly 4 times bigger than Croatia. And no, the point obviously wasn't that the Netherlands doesn't produce world class footballers, they obviously do, the point was that you made up something out of thin air and decided that the Netherlands is the biggest producer of talented - whatever the hell that means - footballers per capita based on what exactly? Pure conjecture that has no basis in reality.



My information was based on exports to the top 10 leagues in Europe (can't find the link at the moment) which I think is probably a little less arbitrary than any footballer that leaves the country to any league in Europe/the World. I'm not sure what bringing up van Dijk, Sneijder and Robben (especially with the seeming insinuation that they aren't that impressive then listing someone like Modric comparatively, heh) had to do with your point exactly which is why I questioned it (along with the commentary about the Ballon d'Or); it still doesn't make sense, and your evaluation of those players seems interesting at best. I do think that those numbers are impressive though, and I didn't know they had more players overall being exported across Europe (though I imagine this has more to do with the Netherlands having a relatively competitive league in good standing in Europe than not having the same raw number of players capable of playing across Europe). A 'two bit' Netherlands footballer is more likely to stay in the Eredivisie than a player of similar quality playing in the Croatian or Uruguayan league for example. France, Spain and Brazil are certainly the top nations for exporting of talent overall though.


----------



## bluesfan94

Van Dijk should have won the ballon d’Or and I’m not a fan of any of his teams. Robben was absolutely world class and on the level of Hazard/KdB. Van Persie was fantastic and right there with Suarez (Suarez was a half step ahead). 

using the results of a single elimination tournament is silly.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

bluesfan94 said:


> *Van Dijk should have won the ballon d’Or *and I’m not a fan of any of his teams. Robben was absolutely world class and on the level of Hazard/KdB. Van Persie was fantastic and right there with Suarez (Suarez was a half step ahead).
> 
> using the results of a single elimination tournament is silly.



Nope


----------



## Evilo

Varane should have won it more than Modric.

Anyway, Robben was not in KDB/Hazard class sorry.
Van Persie was also never in Suarez territory.

Holland has made some of the best footballers of all time, but since Van Basten not one that could claim to be the best at his position. VVD could claim that.


----------



## Islay1989

They aren't as impressive as a guy who's been a top 3 midfielder in the world over the last 10 years or so. 

Also, a quick count of Croatian and Dutch players in the Serie A, Premier league, League 1 and la Liga shows 36 for Croatia, 70 for Netherlands. Not even 2:1 ration.

And even discounting Croatia what makes the Netherlands a more prolific talent producer than Portugal?


----------



## Islay1989

bluesfan94 said:


> Van Dijk should have won the ballon d’Or and I’m not a fan of any of his teams. Robben was absolutely world class and on the level of Hazard/KdB. Van Persie was fantastic and right there with Suarez (Suarez was a half step ahead).
> 
> using the results of a single elimination tournament is silly.


----------



## robertmac43

Islay1989 said:


> I'd take a Modric over anything Netherlands produced recently



Definitely not taking Modric over VVD or Robben.


----------



## Islay1989

robertmac43 said:


> Definitely not taking Modric over VVD or Robben.



There are no words to describe how absurd this is, especially the Robben part.


----------



## bluesfan94

Islay1989 said:


>



Well I can’t argue with this. 

Like literally. It’s so devoid of substance and intelligent thought it’s impossible to argue with.


----------



## Islay1989

bluesfan94 said:


> Well I can’t argue with this.
> 
> Like literally. It’s so devoid of substance and intelligent thought it’s impossible to argue with.



What is there to say to a hot take like that? Taking the guy with the highest number of errors that led directly to goals against that had two great seasons over a top 3 midfielder of his generation? Putting van Persie in the same tier with Suarez? It's absurd and there isn't a footballer I ever hated as much as I hate Suarez.


----------



## robertmac43

Islay1989 said:


> Taking the guy with the highest number of errors that led directly to goals against that had two great seasons over a top 3 midfielder of his generation?



Are you Modric's little brother?


----------



## YNWA14

bluesfan94 said:


> Van Dijk should have won the ballon d’Or and I’m not a fan of any of his teams. Robben was absolutely world class and on the level of Hazard/KdB. Van Persie was fantastic and right there with Suarez (Suarez was a half step ahead).
> 
> using the results of a single elimination tournament is silly.



I agree with most of this; I think Robben's peak he was actually better than Hazard/KdB but unfortunately injuries absolutely derailed him. Probably a top 3 player in the world when he really peaked. Easy to forget too that he was the best player for the Netherlands over a span that saw them come within 2 misses of a WC, got 3rd in the next WC (in this one he pretty much put the whole team on his back) and he was the best player for an historic treble winning Bayern, etc. I hate that he just couldn't stay healthy. 

I don't think that RVP was up there with Suarez. Great player for sure, but Suarez was a different class. I see Suarez more comparable to Robben/de Bruyne.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

robertmac43 said:


> Are you Modric's little brother?



I mean he's right Modirc is better plus healthier


----------



## robertmac43

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I mean he's right Modirc is better plus healthier



Would you have him as a top 3 MF in his generation?? I can think of a couple MF's that played from your club that I would take over Modric in a heart beat and that is just the tip of the iceberg...


----------



## Islay1989

robertmac43 said:


> Are you Modric's little brother?



Yes, obviously. What makes Arjen Robben better than Modrić?


----------



## Islay1989

robertmac43 said:


> Would you have him as a top 3 MF in his generation?? I can think of a couple MF's that played from your club that I would take over Modric in a heart beat and that is just the tip of the iceberg...



And those guys are only ones that can be argued as better. Who else has the resume Modric has?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

robertmac43 said:


> Would you have him as a top 3 MF in his generation?? I can think of a couple MF's that played from your club that I would take over Modric in a heart beat and that is just the tip of the iceberg...



I wouldnt say top 3 but he has had a better career than both VVD/Robben. The latter for sure considering his injuries.


----------



## bluesfan94

Islay1989 said:


> What is there to say to a hot take like that? Taking the guy with the highest number of errors that led directly to goals against that had two great seasons over a top 3 midfielder of his generation? Putting van Persie in the same tier with Suarez? It's absurd and there isn't a footballer I ever hated as much as I hate Suarez.



I never said that VvD had a better career than Modric. And all that stat does is show the silliness of some stats. 

I'm an Arsenal fan and I don't like Liverpool, so that might be coloring my RvP take. But in Suarez's best EPL season, he had 31 goals in the EPL, 0 in the Cups, and didn't play in Europe. In RvP's best EPL season, he had 30 goals in the EPL, 2 in the FA Cup and 5 in Champions League. 

Anyway, I think if you combine Portugal, Croatia, Uruguay, and Belgium over the last, say, 20 years and compare to the Netherlands, they have a better XI, but it's decently close.


----------



## Islay1989

bluesfan94 said:


> I never said that VvD had a better career than Modric. And all that stat does is show the silliness of some stats.
> 
> I'm an Arsenal fan and I don't like Liverpool, so that might be coloring my RvP take. But in Suarez's best EPL season, he had 31 goals in the EPL, 0 in the Cups, and didn't play in Europe. In RvP's best EPL season, he had 30 goals in the EPL, 2 in the FA Cup and 5 in Champions League.
> 
> Anyway, I think if you combine Portugal, Croatia, Uruguay, and Belgium over the last, say, 20 years and compare to the Netherlands, they have a better XI, but it's decently close.



I'd take Portugal over Netherlands alone, with Figo and Cristiano alone enough to do so. 

And the point was per capita internationals. Which I think I proved was a hot take with no basis in reality. 

I was a dumb dumb for just laughing your post off though.


----------



## bluesfan94

Islay1989 said:


> I'd take Portugal over Netherlands alone, with Figo and Cristiano alone enough to do so.
> 
> And the point was per capita internationals. Which I think I proved was a hot take with no basis in reality.
> 
> I was a dumb dumb for just laughing your post off though.



It's all good, we've all been a dumb dumb here.

And yeah, I'm not talking simply internationals, I'm talking about a best starting XI. Portugal has two studs (one near GOAT), and a few other solid players (Pepe, for example). But I think the Dutch have a better all around line up. And now I'm actually going to spend time doing this because I don't want to be doing work


----------



## Evilo

Robben was never even a top 3 player at his position. So all positions? LOL.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Robben was never even a top 3 player at his position. So all positions? LOL.



Yeah, I disagree with this.

I think he was pretty clearly the second best winger for a while (behind Ronaldo, of course)


----------



## Ajacied

Oliver’s comments about Oranje players always crack me up. I no longer have you on ignore. I miss the entertainment too much. Please continue..


----------



## Evilo

Well I never ignored you.
I mean, every single dutch player is potential world class, the ones you dissed actually manage to shine.
Your scouting talent is absoultely spot on. Except reverse !


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Ajacied said:


> Oliver’s comments about Oranje players always crack me up. I no longer have you on ignore. I miss the entertainment too much. Please continue..



who's oliver lol?


----------



## Ajacied

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> who's oliver lol?




That French bloke


----------



## Evilo

Haha, the hate is strong. Don't worry guy, at some point, jealousy can be overcome.
Stick to those 568 world class Akax prospects.


----------



## Islay1989

bluesfan94 said:


> It's all good, we've all been a dumb dumb here.
> 
> And yeah, I'm not talking simply internationals, I'm talking about a best starting XI. Portugal has two studs (one near GOAT), and a few other solid players (Pepe, for example). But I think the Dutch have a better all around line up. And now I'm actually going to spend time doing this because I don't want to be doing work



Those two, Pauleta, Deco, Pepe, Ricardo Carvalho, Maniche, Bruno Fernandes, Bernardo Silva, Quaresma, Nani, Rui Costa, Victor Baia, Couto, Paolo Ferreira, Simao etc


----------



## SSF

Evilo-Why would OM have let Nkounkou leave this past summer?


----------



## YNWA14

Future Wolves legend Goncalo Ramos has 7 goals and 3 assists in 3 games so far this season for Benfica. He was very good in the YCL last season; he can't seem to stop scoring.


----------



## Evilo

SSF said:


> Evilo-Why would OM have let Nkounkou leave this past summer?



He asked for money OM wouldn't give him. Instead they chose to sign Nagatomo 

Dumbasses


----------



## SSF

Evilo said:


> He asked for money OM wouldn't give him. Instead they chose to sign Nagatomo
> 
> Dumbasses




Haha thanks man.
Just been very good thus far as a 19 year old so was curious. He hasn't been tested defensively yet but wow, his attacking play seems very good


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

This is the Sancho replacement. It doesn’t seem like a big signing now because this guy recently turned 16, but he has incredible talent.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BlackYellow/status/1309091215112048648


----------



## JeffreyLFC

It takes a lot for me to be impressed by a young football player but to me Curtis Jones is the best talent to come out of Anfield since Trent Alexander-Arnold.

I truly hope they give him more games. He has the making of a superstar.


----------



## Savant

Keep an eye out for this one. 

James Balagizi signs first professional contract with Liverpool FC


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Keep an eye out for this one.
> 
> James Balagizi signs first professional contract with Liverpool FC



Yeh, between him Mabaya and Stewart there are some real talents coming up in the next crop. Have mentioned them a few times.

Woodburn (he's still a prospect right?) had a fantastic game against United u23s and looks to be rounding back into form. Hopefully he kicks on and his injuries are behind him. Clarkson and Longstaff looked quite good as well. Meanwhile Koumetio struggled for the u18s, I think the hype behind him needs to slow down a bit because he looks like he has a lot to work on.


----------



## Savant

YNWA14 said:


> Yeh, between him Mabaya and Stewart there are some real talents coming up in the next crop. Have mentioned them a few times.
> 
> Woodburn (he's still a prospect right?) had a fantastic game against United u23s and looks to be rounding back into form. Hopefully he kicks on and his injuries are behind him. Clarkson and Longstaff looked quite good as well.



I feel like Woodburn might be a Quadruple A guy. He is way too good for youth level but hasn’t made a senior impact. Still ti my e obviously but it’s not going to happen at LFC


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> I feel like Woodburn might be a Quadruple A guy. He is way too good for youth level but hasn’t made a senior impact. Still ti my e obviously but it’s not going to happen at LFC



Could be, he's still only 20 (turning 21 soon). I think because he broke out so early that the expectations for him were super high and Liverpool just got to a spot where they couldn't give him the minutes he needed and then he got injured multiple times. There's definitely a player in there (considered by many to be the bigger talent between him and TAA at the Academy, by coaches and fans alike). Maybe it's too late for him to reach that potential, but we'll see. I think Liverpool still like him a lot.


----------



## Savant

would share even if not LFC related (for the first episode) but seems like a good listen. I like the shorter format podcasts in general.


----------



## John Pedro

Seems like Gustavo Maia is tearing it up at Barcelona B. Great winger whit scoring touch very uncommon for the position.

Diego Costa, 21 center back, has been rock solid so far in Brasileirao. Great in the air, amazing on the ball (used to play as midfielder). Won't take long until European teams come asking for him, especially Ajax as they've got a strong link with SP's front office.


----------



## Ajacied

Ajax has their fair share of CB's coming up, but he sure sounds interesting. I haven't heard his name in Ajax rumors yet. What would his fee be?


----------



## John Pedro

Ajacied said:


> Ajax has their fair share of CB's coming up, but he sure sounds interesting. I haven't heard his name in Ajax rumors yet. What would his fee be?




hard to tell right now, given the financial crisis, I'd guess between 10-8m. But if he keeps performing the way he's been playing it could be way more.

edit: scored his first as a pro in his 11th match, against River Plate in the Libertadores.


----------



## East Coast Bias




----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I read he wants to play for Mexico.


----------



## John Pedro

Julian Alvarez, River's striker is pretty good. Very fast, skilled and a killer finisher. Only 20y old

@Duchene2MacKinnon


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> Julian Alvarez, River's striker is pretty good. Very fast, skilled and a killer finisher. Only 20y old
> 
> @Duchene2MacKinnon



Did you watch the game? He scored a brace yesterday.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Did you watch the game? He scored a brace yesterday.




I did. I've watched him twice against SPFC and one time against Binacional. He almost scored on a long shot and gave all kinds of problems to SP's backline. Kid is dynamic and has great technique. He looks like a hybrid between Dybala and Aguero (doesn't mean he'll be as good as either, just the style)


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> I did. I've watched him twice against SPFC and one time against Binacional. He almost scored on a long shot and gave all kinds of problems to SP's backline. Kid is dynamic and has great technique. He looks like a hybrid between Dybala and Aguero (doesn't mean he'll be as good as either, just the style)



He appears to be an interesting prospect... I thought he was more of a winger? HIs teammate appears off to Europe for peanuts, what do you think about that? I'm shocked more players didn't make the move over to europe. No footy for months could have the players itching for a move and European teams strapped for cash would do well going for discounted players in SA. Honestly teams are so dumb sometimes.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> He appears to be an interesting prospect... I thought he was more of a winger? HIs teammate appears off to Europe for peanuts, what do you think about that? I'm shocked more players didn't make the move over to europe. No footy for months could have the players itching for a move and European teams strapped for cash would do well going for discounted players in SA. Honestly teams are so dumb sometimes.




They usually play with two CF (Borre and Alvarez or Suarez) kinda like Simeone at Atleti. He's got the pace to be a winger, but with his finishing skill you need him as close to the goal as possible. Yeah I don't really know how River manages to keep Gallardo, Nicolas De La Cruz, Borre for this long, especially with this financial crisis. In Alvarez's case, he might wanna get more exp under Gallardo before moving.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@John Pedro, can I ask what you think of Johnny Cardoso?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> They usually play with two CF (Borre and Alvarez or Suarez) kinda like Simeone at Atleti. He's got the pace to be a winger, but with his finishing skill you need him as close to the goal as possible. Yeah I don't really know how River manages to keep Gallardo, Nicolas De La Cruz, Borre for this long, especially with this financial crisis. In Alvarez's case, he might wanna get more exp under Gallardo before moving.



Gallardo being there doesn’t make sense he’s done all he can with River. Sure another kick at the can for Copa Lib might be on the cards but what is next? He should go soon imo.


----------



## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> @John Pedro, can I ask what you think of Johnny Cardoso?




I've only watched two or three games from him in Brasileirao, I liked what I saw from him, though. He's pretty good on the ball, got nice dribbling skills, good composure and passing, nice size. As an attacking midfield, he may not be as good as he's can be as a CM or deep playmaking. Inter have a ton of midfielders so he getting his minutes says a lot about what Coudet thinks of him


----------



## Evilo

I just found in my CPU my previous prospect lists from years back.

With my good bets and my awful bets.

Here is the 2008 :

1/ Benzema
2/ Lloris
3/ Ben Arfa
4/ Pjanic
5/ Nasri

Notables down the list : Sakho (10th), Hazard (13th), Matuidi (14), Bakar (17, that's for @gary69 ), Gervinho 19, Sissoko (22), Cabaye (24), Payet (33), Gameiro (34), Andre Ayew (45), Modeste (50).


----------



## Evilo

2009 :
1/ Hazard
2/ Sakho
3/ Ben Arfa
4/ Pjanic
5/ Matuidi

Notables : Gameiro (7), Remy (9), Gervinho (10), Ospina (15), Sissoko (18), Boudebouz (20), Capoue (21), Payet (33), Bakar (44), A. Ayew (50)


----------



## Evilo

2010 :
1/ Hazard
2/ Sakho
3/ M'Vila
4/ Sissoko
5/ Pjanic

Notables : Capoue (6), Boudebouz (14), Ospina (22), A. Ayew (23), Lovren (32), Modeste (37), Bakar (41), Lacazette (43), J. Ayew (47), Aubameyang (48), Aurier (49)


----------



## Evilo

2011 :
1/ Hazard
2/ Sakho
3/ M'Via
4/ Pastore
5/ A. Ayew

Notables : Lovren (8), Brahimi (9), Pjanic (10), Mbaye Niang (12), J. Ayew (13), Boudebouz (14), Aurier (15), Boly (21), Azpilicueta (22), Lacazette (24), Cabella (35), Kebano (37), Bakambu (40), Nampalys Mendy (46), Malcuit (50)


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Oof Pastore... the lazy magician.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@Evilo, what’s wrong with Cherki? He’s been struggling.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> @Evilo, what’s wrong with Cherki? He’s been struggling.



Huh?
I wouldn't say he's struggling. He's doing well but the whole team sucks. 
Garcia needs to go ASAP.
And of course, with Depay, Dembele and Aouar staying, plus the addition of Paqueta, it's going to be even harder to get playing time even though Cherki is already very startable.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> Huh?
> I wouldn't say he's struggling. He's doing well but the whole team sucks.
> Garcia needs to go ASAP.
> And of course, with Depay, Dembele and Aouar staying, plus the addition of Paqueta, it's going to be even harder to get playing time even though Cherki is already very startable.




Fair enough. I was expecting more of the Mbappe second season from Cherki because of how much he's talked up. This isn't exactly that, but maybe my expectations were too high.


----------



## Evilo

Not the same role. Cherki is a passer, not a finisher. When the players in front of you are lazy/not concerned/not good enough, you won't get many assists.


----------



## robertmac43

Sold threat on Brighton's new Polish prospects:


----------



## YNWA14

robertmac43 said:


> Sold threat on Brighton's new Polish prospects:




Have heard of Karbownik before, didn't know he'd gone to Brighton. They've done some good work of late.


----------



## robertmac43

YNWA14 said:


> Have heard of Karbownik before, didn't know he'd gone to Brighton. They've done some good work of late.



The scouting team has definitely identified some low cost/high ceiling player as of late. The youth system has also done well in nurturing the new young talent.

Hopefully the strategy is enough to make Brighton a Premier League regular!


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Yearly Guardian list of the next generation of footballers. This year covers players born in 2003. How does the list look like for your country? @Evilo @Duchene2MacKinnon @YNWA14 @Ajacied @John Pedro @Savi, and anyone else I didn't name.

Next Generation 2020: 60 of the best young talents in world football


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Yearly Guardian list of the next generation of footballers. This year covers players born in 2003. How does the list look like for your country? @Evilo @Duchene2MacKinnon @YNWA14 @Ajacied @John Pedro @Savi, and anyone else I didn't name.
> 
> Next Generation 2020: 60 of the best young talents in world football



Missing Daniel Leyva.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Yearly Guardian list of the next generation of footballers. This year covers players born in 2003. How does the list look like for your country? @Evilo @Duchene2MacKinnon @YNWA14 @Ajacied @John Pedro @Savi, and anyone else I didn't name.
> 
> Next Generation 2020: 60 of the best young talents in world football




Is just based off of players born in 2003?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

SJSharks39 said:


> Missing Daniel Leyva.




There's only one US player. Apparently Croatia deserves three players against the best US age group in years. 

Leyva's been injured all year. Can't fault him for that, but he also was bad the last extended run of games he got, at the U17 WC. I think there would be a few others ahead of him before he'd make this list.



Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Is just based off of players born in 2003?




Yes, they do another age group every year. Last year was 2002 born, and next year will be 2004 born.


----------



## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Yearly Guardian list of the next generation of footballers. This year covers players born in 2003. How does the list look like for your country? @Evilo @Duchene2MacKinnon @YNWA14 @Ajacied @John Pedro @Savi, and anyone else I didn't name.
> 
> Next Generation 2020: 60 of the best young talents in world football



I think Unuvar has always been hailed as the best talent from his generation (Dutch), but I'm not as high on Simons as some. I would probably have Shilo't Zand over him. A couple others on the fringe of that maybe like Mohamed Sankoh, Noah Ohio, Kian Fitz-Jim or Fedde de Jong. Youri Regeer had a pretty big breakout in the YCL but I'm not as high on him.

2004 will be interesting. It will almost definitely have Amourricho van Axel Dongen and Olivier Aertssen, but that generation also features the famous Delano van der Heijden of the Ajax Academy article fame (he plays for Feyenoord though).

Surprised that Anthony Descotte didn't make the Belgian list but I guess you can only have so many players in total.


----------



## les Habs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Yearly Guardian list of the next generation of footballers. This year covers players born in 2003. How does the list look like for your country? @Evilo @Duchene2MacKinnon @YNWA14 @Ajacied @John Pedro @Savi, and anyone else I didn't name.
> 
> Next Generation 2020: 60 of the best young talents in world football




This list tends to be "inclusive" in that it tries to get a broad swath from multiple countries and not necessarily the best players based on ability.

Of this year's list I drafted the following players in the keeper league I'm in:

Dario Sarmiento
Luca Netz
Florian Wirtz
Iliax Moriba
Naci Unuvar
Ronaldo Camara
It can be tough to rate them to some degree based on where they're playing. Sarmiento for example has looked good in the Argentine first division, but the clips of Netz I've seen have been against players more his age where he stood out amongst them. 

Having a look at the links from other seasons I noticed that I have six players from last year's list.


----------



## Eye of Ra

Gregg Berhalter in talks with Cajuste. Den okände svensken i Champions League – nu kan han välja USA

This would be a great add for USA. Cajuste is a start-player for a Champions League team even at his young age. He is probaly already good enough to start for USA National Team.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

That’s an interesting one. Cajuste was previously told he was ineligible for the USA, but now US Soccer re-examined the rule and thinks he’s eligible. I don’t think he’d start right away because Adams and McKennie are ahead of him as central midfielders, but he’d be a big addition. We don’t have many players starting for a Champions League team.


----------



## John Pedro

16y older (2004) winger Savio starting for Brasileirao's leaders Atletico Mineiro under Sampaoli. One of the best in the world at his age group

edit played really well


----------



## Savant

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> That’s an interesting one. Cajuste was previously told he was ineligible for the USA, but now US Soccer re-examined the rule and thinks he’s eligible. I don’t think he’d start right away because Adams and McKennie are ahead of him as central midfielders, but he’d be a big addition. We don’t have many players starting for a Champions League team.



Cajuste would be the player that can get Bradley out of the XI, maybe for good. Have t seen much of him, but he is in the same Champions League group as Liverpool, Ajax and Atalanta so it’ll be an interesting test for sure.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Savant said:


> Cajuste would be the player that can get Bradley out of the XI, maybe for good. Have t seen much of him, but he is in the same Champions League group as Liverpool, Ajax and Atalanta so it’ll be an interesting test for sure.




Berhalter’s been saying that Adams is going to play as a #6. I’ll take his word for it. And now with Reyna, it makes even more sense.

I think the midfield/attack is pretty set right now. The midfield is Adams, McKennie, Reyna. Attack is Pulisic, Morris, and either another striker or winger. Morris versatility gives us that option.

But Cajuste would be a good addition. We don’t have a good back up in that position. I’m thinking Yueill was going to take over for Bradley/Trapp, but he’s not good either, so we could use a guy like Cajuste.


----------



## Islay1989

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> There's only one US player. *Apparently Croatia deserves three players against the best US age group in years. *
> 
> Leyva's been injured all year. Can't fault him for that, but he also was bad the last extended run of games he got, at the U17 WC. I think there would be a few others ahead of him before he'd make this list.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they do another age group every year. Last year was 2002 born, and next year will be 2004 born.




What kind of argument is that? Who cares if this is the best US age group in years. Do you even have the slightest idea about the kids listed there? FTR Dinamo's youth team constantly features in the best youth tournaments in Europe including the CL and always does incredibly well. Hajduk isn't too shabby either given they gave Dinamo all they could handle and even should've been the Croatian representative in the CL next season.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Islay1989 said:


> What kind of argument is that? Who cares if this is the best US age group in years. Do you even have the slightest idea about the kids listed there? FTR Dinamo's youth team constantly features in the best youth tournaments in Europe including the CL and always does incredibly well. Hajduk isn't too shabby either given they gave Dinamo all they could handle and even should've been the Croatian representative in the CL next season.




Then use another country. It doesn’t make much difference. You are making a lot over nothing.


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Then use another country. It doesn’t make much difference. You are making a lot over nothing.



I agree with his main point in that basically just because a nation has a good generation doesn’t mean they should get spots in this. With that said, I’m pretty sure he misunderstood your point.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Speaking of that American generation of players, Caden Clark scored this world class strike with his weak foot in his second MLS game last night. He also scored a nice goal in his first game over the weekend. He already has a transfer lined up with one of the best teams in one of the top leagues, but he has to wait some time to join this team due to his age.


----------



## robertmac43

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Speaking of that American generation of players, Caden Clark scored this world class strike with his weak foot in his second MLS game last night. He also scored a nice goal in his first game over the weekend. He already has a transfer lined up with one of the best teams in one of the top leagues, but he has to wait some time to join this team due to his age.




Wonder strike that came from absolutely no where. NYRB had nothing going, then Clark turned the gam around for them single handedly.


----------



## Savant

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Speaking of that American generation of players, Caden Clark scored this world class strike with his weak foot in his second MLS game last night. He also scored a nice goal in his first game over the weekend. He already has a transfer lined up with one of the best teams in one of the top leagues, but he has to wait some time to join this team due to his age.




Leipzig ?


----------



## Jussi

Savant said:


> Leipzig ?




Richmond AFC


----------



## Savant

Jussi said:


> Richmond AFC



Virginia?


----------



## Jussi

Savant said:


> Virginia?




Championship. Coach Lasso has a good reputation.


----------



## Savant

Jussi said:


> Championship. Coach Lasso has a good reputation.



Oh that’s even better! Saw it’s already renewed for a 3rd season


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich




----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Watch for this name in future years. There's no better unknown young American to the football public than this guy. Star in the making.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> Julian Alvarez, River's striker is pretty good. Very fast, skilled and a killer finisher. Only 20y old
> 
> @Duchene2MacKinnon



Another goal today.... watched the first half, his passing seemed to lack.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Gio Reyna has 2G, 5A this season so far. He gets a lot less hype than other top 2002 born players like Camavinga and Fati, but he might be the best of them.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

They’re should be laws against this blatant tapping up by spain for Luka.


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Gio Reyna has 2G, 5A this season so far. He gets a lot less hype than other top 2002 born players like Camavinga and Fati, but he might be the best of them.



Reyna is fantastic but comparing him to two players who play different positions is pointless.


----------



## Fulham

Yigal Bruk has joined Schalke U19 from my local community club in West Vancouver. I coached him at U12-U13 levels. So I take full credit lol. Just turned 18 and turned down interest from England, Italy, and Spain. 

Very Humble kid, who actually wasn't great at youth levels, as he was way to good for his teammates. When your very unselfish and your teammates suck its painful to watch. Glad he made to through! He would of signed for the Whitecaps but they froze him out for some dumb reasons.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Gio Reyna has 2G, 5A this season so far. He gets a lot less hype than other top 2002 born players like Camavinga and Fati, but he might be the best of them.




Fati doesn’t play a completely different position, but anyway, I agree it’s hard to make accurate comparisons when players play different positions.


----------



## les Habs

I would say look at Reyna's performances and not just his stats. I haven't apart from some highlights, but I will say at least one of his assists was more on Haaland's run and finish than on the pass that gave Reyna the assist. I'm very curious to see how many of his assists got to Haaland and how that compares to other duos in the Bundesliga and beyond.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

les Habs said:


> I would say look at Reyna's performances and not just his stats. I haven't apart from some highlights, but I will say at least one of his assists was more on Haaland's run and finish than on the pass that gave Reyna the assist. I'm very curious to see how many of his assists got to Haaland and how that compares to other duos in the Bundesliga and beyond.




He's also been at least our second best player. Maybe the best, but I'd lean towards Haaland for now because of the lack of any viable alternative until November 20. Reyna is really good. I don't know why anyone would think his numbers are a fluke. If anything, his numbers don't tell the full story. Dortmund plays a 3-4-1-2 type of formation where Reyna plays somewhere between the midfield and forward line, so he might be more of a midfielder than forward in the current construction of the team.


----------



## les Habs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> He's also been at least our second best player. Maybe the best, but I'd lean towards Haaland for now because of the lack of any viable alternative until November 20. Reyna is really good. I don't know why anyone would think his numbers are a fluke. If anything, his numbers don't tell the full story. Dortmund plays a 3-4-1-2 type of formation where Reyna plays somewhere between the midfield and forward line, so he might be more of a midfielder than forward in the current construction of the team.




Not sure if you're referring to more or not, but I'm most definitely not calling his numbers a fluke. Simply offering some additional context.


----------



## John Pedro

Some stand out kids in Brazil/SP

*Brenner *- 20y old striker - u17 phenom that broke Gabriel Jesus goalscoring record and finally putting it all together. 11 goals in 21 games only 8 as a starter. 7 goals in the last 6 games. More than just a poacher but right now he's scoring at will thanks to his positioning in the box


*Gabriel Sara* - 21y old midfielder - Barcelona tried to sign him but he choose to re-sign with SPFC and it's working well for him. Isn't a flashy player, instead of an all-around one. Good passing, long shooting, great work ethic in the defensive zone and call play all over the pitch


Also, Santos just handed the debut to a *15y old kid Angelo*, their second youngest ever to debut beating even Pelé


----------



## YNWA14

John Pedro said:


> Some stand out kids in Brazil/SP
> 
> *Brenner *- 20y old striker - u17 phenom that broke Gabriel Jesus goalscoring record and finally putting it all together. 11 goals in 21 games only 8 as a starter. 7 goals in the last 6 games. More than just a poacher but right now he's scoring at will thanks to his positioning in the box
> 
> 
> *Gabriel Sara* - 21y old midfielder - Barcelona tried to sign him but he choose to re-sign with SPFC and it's working well for him. Isn't a flashy player, instead of an all-around one. Good passing, long shooting, great work ethic in the defensive zone and call play all over the pitch
> 
> 
> Also, Santos just handed the debut to a *15y old kid Angelo*, their second youngest ever to debut beating even Pelé




Any thoughts on Savio?


----------



## John Pedro

YNWA14 said:


> Any thoughts on Savio?




Hasn't had many minutes so far, but he's looked good in the game I saw. Very fast and trickery winger. Playing in a stacked CAM team hasn't helped his cause, either. He's got the potential to be a special one.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

People make bad jokes that Moukoko is a 25 year old taxi driver or a 33 year old with four kids, but he's grown 3 and a half inches in the past year. He's now 5'10. People over the age of 18 rarely grow. Even if there were problems with knowing his age because he was born in Cameroon, how could he be more than two years older than he says? And even if he was two years older than he says because of a mistake in record keeping, the kid has 14 goals in 4 games so far this season in what would be his normal age group, if he was two years older than he says. That player would still be an elite 17 year old around the world.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich




----------



## robertmac43

Don't read into these things too much but thought it was mildly interesting nonetheless:


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Luka rejecting Spain once again. I hope that settles that. They have a hard on for him even though he's not playing regularly for Mallorca. Still at 15 in a mens league its insane that he's even part of the team.


----------



## les Habs

robertmac43 said:


> Don't read into these things too much but thought it was mildly interesting nonetheless:





Anyone who values Davies over Haaland alone is sorely mistaken.


----------



## robertmac43

les Habs said:


> Anyone who values Davies over Haaland alone is sorely mistaken.



Or from Canada


----------



## KingLB

les Habs said:


> Anyone who values Davies over Haaland alone is sorely mistaken.




Yea...

I mean Bayern is maybe only team that doesn't have to sell, even Real/Barca come at them. So that might be a number near what it would take. But silly number and silly ranking.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon




----------



## robertmac43

Been trying to follow the SA club scene more these days. Uruguayan 17 year old got 2 goals last night, this one was a great, composed finish. Arez0 seems destined for a move.


----------



## Savant

Harvey Elliott is on loan at Blackburn and he is killing it.

1g 3a in 6 matches at 17 with multiple MOTM and at least one Championship TOTW.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


>





f*** THIS KID lol

SP beat Lanus 4-3 but was eliminated thanks to away goals. De La Vega was amazing in both legs. Huge talent, very similar to Grealish. Also, he's got the hairstyle of old Argentinian players like Aimar, Gallardo, Sorin, etc. In the transmission they said Lanus had rejected a Manchester City's bid for him already


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> *f*** THIS KID lol*
> 
> SP beat Lanus 4-3 but was eliminated thanks to away goals. De La Vega was amazing in both legs. Huge talent, very similar to Grealish. Also, he's got the hairstyle of old Argentinian players like Aimar, Gallardo, Sorin, etc. In the transmission they said Lanus had rejected a Manchester City's bid for him already



Love seeing that ... means he's bee doing well loool

I know Almada was considered the best prospect in Argentina. However based off the last year or so I think La Vega can make a strong case that he is. He has more of an opportunity to show his talent at Lanus given the keys by his coach where as Almada has been used sporadically. I give him another year at Argentina max. He's playing too well not to leave.


----------



## SJSharks72

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Love seeing that ... means he's bee doing well loool
> 
> I know Almada was considered the best prospect in Argentina. However based off the last year or so I think La Vega can make a strong case that he is. He has more of an opportunity to show his talent at Lanus given the keys by his coach where as Almada has been used sporadically. I give him another year at Argentina max. He's playing too well not to leave.



I really wish we signed him instead of Pellistrini


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> I really wish we signed him instead of Pellistrini



Pellistrini isnt working out?


----------



## SJSharks72

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Pellistrini isnt working out?



Not even that. I'm sure Pellistrini will be fine. I just love Pedro and think he will be absolutely world class.


----------



## Evilo

It's Pellistri guys.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Love seeing that ... means he's bee doing well loool
> 
> I know Almada was considered the best prospect in Argentina. However based off the last year or so I think La Vega can make a strong case that he is. He has more of an opportunity to show his talent at Lanus given the keys by his coach where as Almada has been used sporadically. I give him another year at Argentina max. He's playing too well not to leave.



I think he heard me just scored a goal


----------



## Savant

Savant said:


> Harvey Elliott is on loan at Blackburn and he is killing it.
> 
> 1g 3a in 6 matches at 17 with multiple MOTM and at least one Championship TOTW.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Florian Wirtz is gonna be a star. Already a key player for Leverkusen and he’s only 17. Germany is back on the rise with producing players after a small lull between this kid and Moukoko as stars in 2003 and 2004. @cgf @YNWA14.


----------



## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Florian Wirtz is gonna be a star. Already a key player for Leverkusen and he’s only 17. Germany is back on the rise with producing players after a small lull between this kid and Moukoko as stars in 2003 and 2004. @cgf @YNWA14.



Yeah there's a few more on the horizon too that look like absolute world beater individual talents. We'll see how they develop but Wirtz hasn't disappointed so far. 3 goals, 5 assists in just over 700 minutes as a 17 year old attacking midfielder is pretty darn impressive (not even taking into account what he does when he isn't on the scoresheet, which is super fun to watch).


----------



## les Habs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Florian Wirtz is gonna be a star. Already a key player for Leverkusen and he’s only 17. Germany is back on the rise with producing players after a small lull between this kid and Moukoko as stars in 2003 and 2004. @cgf @YNWA14.




Well duh, I did draft him after all.


----------



## cgf

I'm not as high on him as you guys seem to be, oddly enough. Wirtz is a phenomenal passer and super crafty for his age, which I really like...but I see more of a Brandt than a Havertz (or Moukoko) from him at this point. AKA a guy who is good enough to start for & make a positive impact for the NT, but not someone whom you shape the NT team around.

That said, it does look like we're past those weaker generations that we'd been cycling through since the 96ers matured. 

Speaking of, have any of our dutch posters seen how OBM is doing for Heerenveen? I've read they've been playing him at the 10 instead of on the wing, how's that going?


----------



## John Pedro

John Pedro said:


> Some stand out kids in Brazil/SP
> 
> *Brenner *- 20y old striker - u17 phenom that broke Gabriel Jesus goalscoring record and finally putting it all together. 11 goals in 21 games only 8 as a starter. 7 goals in the last 6 games. More than just a poacher but right now he's scoring at will thanks to his positioning in the box





With 2 goals last night against Flamengo, Brenner up to 17 goals in 26 games (14 as starter). Copa do Brasil leading scorer with 6 goals in 3 games


----------



## robertmac43

Anyone know anything about this guy? He is Canada bound now!


----------



## cgf

Since we were talking about german kids, here's a slightly out of date list of kids that I've either seen enough to rate confidently or whom I've seen enough to be intrigued by & want to see more of.

Order is loosely based on a combination of potential & readiness, as this started off as a list of kids who might alleviate our NT's lack of depth in the near future, but don't take the specific order too seriously. The tiers are more useful; though even there some kids who are low on these lists are only low because I haven't seen enough of them, I want to wait to see how their transition goes, or I am more concerned with their environment than their talent.

Kids with *'s on both sides of their names are kids who I have big concerns with because they are stagnating or losing a lot of dev-time to injuries, but who are still young enough to capitalize on their high potential if they can get things going in the right direction.
- Mbom being a prime example this, as he has finally been healthy enough to break into Werder's senior team & is still young enough to become that Alaba-lite that he once looked like he could become. 
- Kuhn being another example who's done his stock wonders since joining Bayern II in the third division after having seemed to stagnate since Leipzig couldn't integrate him into their senior side.


*Forwards*
Youssoufa Moukoko (’04)
————————
Karim Adeyemi (’02)
————————
Malik Tillman (’02)
Maximilian Beier (’02)
*Fiete Arp* (’00)
*Jabez Makanda* (’01)
————————
David Hummel (’02)
Jonathan Burkhardt (’00)
Lukas Nmecha (’98)
Emrehan Gedikli (’03)
Nick Woltemade (’02)
Sebastian Müller (’01)
David Otto (’99)
Jessic Ngankam (’00)
Florian Krüger (’99)

*Attackers*
Oliver Batista Meier (’01)
Leon Dajaku (’01)
Florian Wirtz (’03)
Lazar Samardzic (’02)
Mika Schroers (’02)
Luca Barata (’03)
Nicolas Kühn (’00)
Jan Thielmann (’02)
Fabrice Hartmann (’01)
Lilian Egloff (’02)
Roberto Massimo (’00)
Mehmet Can Aydin (’02)
Erkan Eyibil (’01)
Paul Nebel (’02)
————————
Ismail Jakobs (’99)
Armindo Sieb (’03)
Turan Calhanoglu (’03)
Jamie Leweling (’01)
John Yeboah (’00)

Didn't really know where to separate the tiers with these kids as even the likes of Massimo & Eyibil have the talent to become NT starters if they develop well. So I just couldn't separate one prospect from the next to create a top tier in this group.

*Midfielders*
Arne Maier (’99)
Dennis Geiger (’98)
Angelo Stiller (’01)
Rocco Reitz (’02)
Marveille Papela (’01)
Can Bozdogan (’01)
Torben Rhein (’03)
*Elias Abouchabaka* (’00)
*Jean Manuel Mbom* (’00)
————————
Tobias Raschl (’00)
Adrian Fein (’99)
Niklas Dorsch (’98)

There will be AM prospects who end up joining this group as Bozdogan & Abouchabaka have. Aydin being one that I feel is very likely to end up at the 6 or 8 (if not FB); while both Wirtz & Samardzic remind me a lot of a young Brandt...who nowadays is at his most dynamic in a midfield 3 as an 8/10 hybrid.

*CB*
Lars Lukas Mai (’00)
Antonis Aidonis* (’01)
Jordan Torunarigha (’97)
Arbnor Aliu (’03)
Nico Schlotterbeck (’00)
Jordi Bongard (’01)
Marton Dardai (’02)
Bright Arrey-Mbi (’03)
Armel Bella-Kotchap (’01)
Malik Talabidi (’01)

*Aidonis is likely to end up shifted around like Kehrer, a similarly sized highend CB prospect who’s skill & athleticism looked to translate well into a highend-utility role as a FB in a back 4 / outside CB in a back 3 / deep midfielder. And I worry about Aliu facing similar issues if he doesn't have another significant growth spurt in him.

*FB/WB*
Ridle Baku (’98)
Luca Netz (’03)
Kilian Ludewig (’00)
Kaan Kurt (’01)
*Jean Manuel Mbom* (’00)
Mehmet Can Aydin (’02)
Can Bozdogan (’01)
Kerim Calhanoglu (’02)
*Luca Itter* (’99)
Lennart Czyborra (’99)
Noah Katterbach (’01)
Ismail Jakobs (’99)
Jamie Leweling (’01)
Malik Talabidi (’01)
Ryan Adigo (’01)

I don't know how to assess goalie prospects but these are the guys who are already developing at the senior level and/or highly rated by others:
*GK*
Christian Früchtl (’00)
Alexander Nübel (’96)
Markus Schubert (’98)
Luca Plogmann (’00)
Luca Unbehaun (’01)
Florian Müller (’97)
Florian Kastenmeier (’97)
Lennart Moser (’99)


----------



## YNWA14

@cgf 

Can't speak to the entire list but Netz and Rhein for me are among the best talents I've seen at their age group. I have them rated very highly along with Wirtz (who is miles ahead of OBM, IMO).


----------



## cgf

YNWA14 said:


> @cgf
> 
> Can't speak to the entire list but Netz and Rhein for me are among the best talents I've seen at their age group. I have them rated very highly along with Wirtz (who is miles ahead of OBM, IMO).




Don't pay much attention to the order. I started that list early in the lockdown & haven't sat down to put much thought into the order since then. If I were doing it now Wirtz would probably have moved into his own tier given what he's showing at the senior level.

That said, as I wrote on the last page, I'm not sure of just how high Wirtz' ceiling is...outside of his abilities as a playmaker; which I am already sold are pure class. So even now I wouldn't exactly be shocked if almost anyone from that group of attackers ended up passing Wirtz to become the best of that bunch...

...not after having written Gnabry off as many times as I did before Nagelsmann got his hands on him & finally tapped into the potential that had always been there 


EDIT:
As for Rhein; I like him a lot too, but that's a really talented group behind the Bundesliga vets, Maier & Geiger, that isn't really in any meaningful order.

Stiller has been arguably even more impressive for Bayern's youth teams than what Rhein has shown to this point & is on the cusp of breaking through to the senior level...which I was initially trying to order guys by...while playing an important role for that fun to watch Bayern II team in the 3rd division.

Similar stories with Reitz & Bozdogan; who have comparable ceilings/talent levels to Rhein & Stiller -- though they are childhood 10s who are being converted into 8s at the senior level rather than lifelong 6s like the Bayern duo -- and are both already starting to break through at the senior level this season.

If Papela can't start to breakthrough by the end of the season he'll get asterisks like Abouchabaka, but his ceiling is still very high at the 8 and I'm not stressing about him making good on that potential yet.


----------



## JimboA

There have been some good talents coming out of Scandinavia recently. I think this guy could join that group in a few years.


----------



## John Pedro

@Duchene2MacKinnon sick assist from De La Vega against Boca. Kid is goood


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> @Duchene2MacKinnon sick assist from De La Vega against Boca. Kid is goood




Heck of a talent.

He along with Almada will probably leave in the summer.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Love seeing that ... means he's bee doing well loool
> 
> I know Almada was considered the best prospect in Argentina. However based off the last year or so I think La Vega can make a strong case that he is. He has more of an opportunity to show his talent at Lanus given the keys by his coach where as Almada has been used sporadically. I give him another year at Argentina max. He's playing too well not to leave.



Since I said this the kid has scored 4 goals in 4 games. 



What impressed me about today’s goal wasn’t his finish( which was nice) it’s the off the ball movement. Didn’t just rush to goal but changed direction mid run identified where the space would be and scored. Intelligent run.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

LUUUUUKA what a goal! his first for the senior team I believe. Will post a video when I find it.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

His 16th bday was about 2 weeks ago.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

It looks like the USA is going to cap 20 year old CF Daryl Dike next week in a friendly against El Salvador. You might look up his stats on Wikipedia or transfermarkt and notice that his numbers are pretty good but not unusual (8G, 3A in 1444 minutes this season.)

What fans are so excited about with this player is that he’s a crazy athlete. He’s 6’2 225. He’s about the size Lukaku was before Lukaku slimmed down, and he battles with defenders as well as Lukaku does. Dike might have even more potential though because he’s quite good technically compared to Lukaku. I don’t know if he’ll ever reach his potential, but he had a pretty good first pro season. I can’t imagine it’ll be long until one of Europe’s biggest clubs signs this guy.

His parents wouldn’t let him sign with a pro academy years back. Many of the best MLS academies wanted to sign this kid. His parents mandated that he attend college. He’s also eligible for Nigeria. His brother played for the Nigerian senior men’s team and his sister for the Nigerian senior woman’s team, but the USMNT coach has done a great job with these dual-national players, so I do expect he’ll play for us.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Almada's passing is art

You just know some Euro coaching is licking his lips waiting to turn him into a winger in the Lavezzi mold.


----------



## cgf

18yo Karim Adeyemi's 1st CL goal:


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> 18yo Karim Adeyemi's 1st CL goal:




What part of Argentina is he from?


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> What part of Argentina is he from?




He's from the old country ;-)


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> He's from the old country ;-)



ok Karim


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Adeyemi is a Dortmund fan. He’ll play alongside Moukoko in a few years.

He’s a great player. He had four assists at the weekend, and a goal. He’ll probably be their next big export after Szoboszlai and Daka.


----------



## Savant

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> What part of Argentina is he from?



Any thoughts on Dario Sarmiento from Estudiantes?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Savant said:


> Any thoughts on Dario Sarmiento from Estudiantes?



I haven't seen much of him, he wasn't on Aimar's u17 team for some reason nor the other youth teams that I watch. Estudiantes are pretty bad right now. He's getting some minutes I just have tuned in for him. No goals or assists for the senior team but that's hardly his fault. From what I know is he's a fast, tricky winger. Sabella is huge fan so, that's good enough for me.

As I posted a couple of days ago in the transfer thread, city are closing in on a transfer for him. 20 million.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Adeyemi is a Dortmund fan. *He’ll play alongside Moukoko in a few years.*
> 
> He’s a great player. He had four assists at the weekend, and a goal. He’ll probably be their next big export after Szoboszlai and Daka.




Adeyemi & Moukoko will be pretty sick replacements for Lewa & Müller.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Adeyemi & Moukoko will be pretty sick replacements for Lewa & Müller.




I won't even get mad. Thats a good joke. Maybe Adeyemi. I doubt he goes back to Bayern, but it's possible. I'm nearly sure that Moukoko to Bayern will not happen. Bayern doesn't even try to say Dortmund players anymore. They know it's not going to happen, unless there's a stopover somewhere else first.


----------



## Savant

Harvey Elliott scored again for Blackburn today. What an incredible loan that is turning out to be. Elliott will get minutes next season, and save Liverpool from paying stupid money on a Sarr type. Curious to see Sarr vs Elliott’s Championship Stat comparison at end of season.


----------



## KlausJopling

Yunus Musah who can play for either US or England has signed an extension with Valencia through 2026. He looked good in the two friendlies with US last month


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@cgf, what do you think of Malick Sanogo? I read he's started training with the first team, and may be close to a debut.

I would've thought he'd play for Ivory Coast because thats who his father played for, but it looks right now like its either Germany or USA. He's been invited and accepted an invitation to a cancelled U-17 camp for both countries so far, so he seems unsure yet who he'll play for.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> @cgf, what do you think of Malick Sanogo? I read he's started training with the first team, and may be close to a debut.
> 
> I would've thought he'd play for Ivory Coast because thats who his father played for, but it looks right now like its either Germany or USA. He's been invited and accepted an invitation to a cancelled U-17 camp for both countries so far, so he seems unsure yet who he'll play for.




No clue. Haven't watched our u17s this season or last and he hasn't featured for any of the youth NTs I have seen.


----------



## cgf

So Jojo's 5th goal (+2 assists) in 6 matches for LASK has helped them into 1st place ahead of RB Salzburg...

*sigh* if only he hadn't missed basically 3 years of development right as he outgrew youth football. Still one of the most elegant strikers I've ever seen play youth football.


----------



## Savant




----------



## Vasilevskiy

KlausJopling said:


> Yunus Musah who can play for either US or England has signed an extension with Valencia through 2026. He looked good in the two friendlies with US last month




One of the few bright things in Valencia this year. Still needs a lot of work tho


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Vasilevskiy said:


> One of the few bright things in Valencia this year. Still needs a lot of work tho




I agree, but he's also not really a winger. Valencia's 4-4-2 forces him to play out wide.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Batista called up his u20 team, Some notable omissions but still a good squad. This is for the SA championship to qualify for the World Cup. Early next year


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Batista called up his u20 team, Some notable omissions but still a good squad. This is for the SA championship to qualify for the World Cup. Early next year





How close was Matko Miljevic to making this team? 

He might've declined anyway. Seems like he hasn't made his mind up between USA and Argentina. Croatia also has tried to contact him to play for them.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> How close was Matko Miljevic to making this team?
> 
> He might've declined anyway. Seems like he hasn't made his mind up between USA and Argentina. Croatia also has tried to contact him to play for them.



Not sure tbh this isnt the final team. As many players are still playing with their club team in the various copas going on in SA. They should have a very good team in the Spring/Summer.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Very disappointing game from Velasco. Pedro on the other hand has played good. Lands have 3/4 bright young players on the cusp of breaking out.


----------



## cgf

Some of Geiger's strong scenes from the gent match; including his gorgeous assist on Skov's goal that made it 2-0 & his goal-saving tackle while racing back to help against the counter at 3-0.

Plus Beier's first european goals at 0:55 & 4:30 (assist at 6:33)...the 1st was flukey but the 2nd's a beaut...in the process making him Hoffenheim's 2nd youngest goal scorer; ~a month older than Süle was but ~5 months younger than Alaba was. Hopefully this gives Beier the confidence to take over a regular role alongside Kramaric & some of the Croatian club legend's crafty magic rubs off on young Maxi.


----------



## John Pedro

Nice goal by Gustavo Maia for Brazil u20 vs Bolivia. Barcelona's got a good one here


then a nice little skill move (don't know how it's called in English)


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

@John Pedro Hows Zaracho doing?


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> @John Pedro Hows Zaracho doing?




So so. Hasn't made much of an impact yet, especially offensively where he barely is showing his skill and shot.


----------



## Evilo

Highly touted Mohamed Simakan (Strasbourg), who's a defenseman, is playing right now as I speak and so far he's almost scored a goal, obtained 2 penalties (both were missed by the shooter) and just scored the tying goal in 66 minutes.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Highly touted Mohamed Simakan (Strasbourg), who's a defenseman, is playing right now as I speak and so far he's almost scored a goal, obtained 2 penalties (both were missed by the shooter) and just scored the tying goal in 66 minutes.



But does he defend?


----------



## SJSharks72

Savant said:


> But does he defend?



From my very limited viewings and understanding, defending is his strength. I thought he was really good defensively but needed to work on his passing.


----------



## Evilo

Yeah, he's above all a very good defensive player. Can play RB, CB and DM.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Highly touted Mohamed Simakan (Strasbourg), who's a defenseman, is playing right now as I speak and so far he's almost scored a goal, obtained 2 penalties (both were missed by the shooter) and just scored the tying goal in 66 minutes.



@Arsenal 

oh that’s actually a user. Whoops.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

I miss the great Ronaldo. At his peak he was the most entertaining player of my lifetime. Too bad for his injuries and... lifestyle.

I have not seen a player like him since. Mbappe is the closest to him with his speed and ability with the ball but even him is nothing compared to the footwork of El Fenomeno.

Is there any upcoming young phenomenon that could rival the dribbling master in the future?


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Have to say I really like how well some of Spurs youth players have developed as of late.

Oliver Skipp (20 y/o, central midfielder) is a nailed on starter for Norwich, the leaders of the Championship. Should be involved with Spurs squad next season if you ask me.

Harvey White (19 y/o, central midfielder) is one of the absolute best midfielders in the U23 league, and should also start getting more involved with the first team within a year or two. Got a few minutes in the Europa League against Ludogorets.

As for Troy Parrott (18 y/o, striker) his Millwall career started rough with him getting injured, but he's been getting quite a bit of minutes as of late. Production is lacking so far though.

However, this might be premature, but the two largest talents seem to be Dane Scarlett (16 y/o, striker) and Alfie Devine (16 y/o, central midfielder). Both of them have already proven themselves far above the level of the U18's and started featuring for the U23's. Scarlett even got a few minutes for the first team against Ludogorets and looked incredibly good.

Beyond these players they have some pretty hyped up fullbacks in their academy system in Dermi Lusala (17 y/o, right back) and Dennis Cirkin (18 y/o, left back).

Edit: Found a relevant clip from today's match against Chelsea's u23's.

Scarlett scoring with White assisting (Cech in goal!):


----------



## Savant

SJSharks39 said:


> From my very limited viewings and understanding, defending is his strength. I thought he was really good defensively but needed to work on his passing.





Evilo said:


> Yeah, he's above all a very good defensive player. Can play RB, CB and DM.



Cool. Yeah my alarm bells go off when people qualify how good a defensive player is based on what he does on offense. Carry on.


----------



## robertmac43

One to watch from the Brighton system in Jensen Weir. Scored his fifth goal from midfield today in PL-2. Has some all-round qualities to his game as well/ At 18, hopefully we see him progress to the Senior squad in the not too distant future.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

JeffreyLFC said:


> I miss the great Ronaldo. At his peak he was the most entertaining player of my lifetime. Too bad for his injuries and... lifestyle.
> 
> I have not seen a player like him since. Mbappe is the closest to him with his speed and ability with the ball but even him is nothing compared to the footwork of El Fenomeno.
> 
> Is there any upcoming young phenomenon that could rival the* dribbling master in the future*?



You mean Messi?


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> You mean Messi?




Right? I'm still in the camp that thinks that Ronaldo-classic's combination of skill & physical tools was the greatest I've seen in my life time and that he had an even higher ceiling to his talent than Leo did...even if he didn't get as close to his ceiling as Messi did his & his peak wasn't anywhere near as long...but it's those physical advantages that he held over Leo that make me say those things, not his dribbling & ball control.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> Right? I'm still in the camp that thinks that Ronaldo-classic's combination of skill & physical tools was the greatest I've seen in my life time and that he had an even higher ceiling to his talent than Leo did...even if he didn't get as close to his ceiling as Messi did his & his peak wasn't anywhere near as long...but it's those physical advantages that he held over Leo that make me say those things, not his dribbling & ball control.



Missed Ronaldo in his prime so, cant really comment on his ceiling however, yeah, I dont think anyone beats Lio in his dribbling. That goal against Getafe is just impossible save for him and Maradona.

The other thing Messi doesn't get nearly enough credit is his mentality and soccer IQ.


----------



## SJSharks72

Next big thing to come out of the MLS: Brian Reynolds. He’s a RB currently in the FC Dallas system but is being monitored by tons of teams. He’s tall (6’ 3”), fast as hell, strong, and athletic. The best part about him though is he’s smart. He doesn’t rely on his physical attributes to be good. He’s also a great dribbler and a crosser. 

https://youtu.be/jHTG2YYzV84

Obviously highlights don’t tell the whole story but here’s a good highlight video from this year (kind of long at 4 minutes). What’s so impressive to me is he didn’t even come into the year as a starter. Dallas still had Reggie Cannon who was one of the best RBs in the league before being sold into Boavista (Lille system) and is now being monitored by Benfica. Cannon was sold in early September. In those 4ish months, Reynolds has established himself in this league and was able to do what he did in that video. Guy is going to be the next Davies and have a similar impact in a few years or at least has the potential to. The biggest team I’ve seen him linked to is Juve but I imagine he goes to Germany.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

At that size better off being a CB.


----------



## Evilo

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Missed Ronaldo in his prime so, cant really comment on his ceiling however, yeah, I dont think anyone beats Lio in his dribbling. That goal against Getafe is just impossible save for him and Maradona.



And Ben Arfa.


----------



## SJSharks72

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> At that size better off being a CB.



Problem is that neutralizes his offensive skills. Yeah he’s good on the ball and would be able to carry it forward but watching him reminds me of watching Davies in the MLS. Yes Davies was younger in the MLS (Davies is currently 20. I think he was 15-18 in the MLS) so I don’t see him reaching Davies arguable best in the world at his position but I mean it’s not like RB is a deep position either so it’s possible.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> Problem is that neutralizes his offensive skills. Yeah he’s good on the ball and would be able to carry it forward but watching him reminds me of watching Davies in the MLS. Yes Davies was younger in the MLS (Davies is currently 20. I think he was 15-18 in the MLS) so I don’t see him reaching Davies arguable best in the world at his position but I mean it’s not like RB is a deep position either so it’s possible.



Im just thinking it of how a coach would see it. His size the probably want him in the box. Rightly or wrongly.


----------



## SJSharks72

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Im just thinking it of how a coach would see it. His size the probably want him in the box. Rightly or wrongly.



From what I’ve seen he’s not great at heading the ball.


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Missed Ronaldo in his prime so, cant really comment on his ceiling however, yeah, I dont think anyone beats Lio in his dribbling. That goal against Getafe is just impossible save for him and Maradona.
> 
> The other thing Messi doesn't get nearly enough credit is his mentality and soccer IQ.




I barely remember Ronaldo's absolute peak, as it was only after his comeback when I start to remember live matches well.

But I'll never forget this one goal that Ronaldo scored for Real after he had already gotten fat. The way he was able to receive a cross into the box with one side of his foot, wrap his foot around the ball while it was still a few feet up in the air, and riffle the volley into the back of the net with the other side of his foot, all in one motion; melted my little kid brain & I spent hours with my buddy trying to figure out the physics of what we had just seen. Couldn't tell you whom it was against or even what season it was from, but I can still vividly picture that fat bastard poking his leg up to freeze that ball in the air 


Messi having that technical brilliance that fat Ronaldo had in his toolkit was why I was always so uninterested in the Messi-CR7 "debates" we were forced to have. Leo had that magic that kids will be shown by their football-mad uncles for generations. CR7 was a physical freak who used his tools very intelligently & tried so f***in hard...but he just didn't have that transcendental genius that most attracts me to this sport like Leo did.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

An absolute belter from the Velez youngster.



SJSharks39 said:


> From what I’ve seen he’s not great at heading the ball.



That’s a pretty remarkable thing considering his height and where he plays.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> At that size better off being a CB.




No, he can’t defend. He’s a former attacker moved to wingback. Using him as a fullback is also a stretch, which is why he fits well with these Italian teams that use three at the back. Those in the know have been saying that’s where he’ll transfer to. First it was Juventus, and now it seems like other teams (Milan) might’ve started a bidding war. We’ll see where he goes. Supposedly Juventus was a near certainty to sign him and now it’s not so clear what team.


----------



## YNWA14

I went back to watch the Leverkusen game and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better 17 year old in the world than Wirtz. That kid is just so dynamic, scored a beauty of a goal and has impressed me every time I've seen him play. I had followed him a bit before his breakout and was impressed that he adjusted so quickly. There've been a lot of comparisons to Havertz because of his age of breakout and the team he's on but I think that all the other differences aside one big difference that I think will allow him to excel at the highest level is that he's a livewire; he works hard on the pitch. Havertz has never been a high effort player and we're seeing that now in England (not that he can't adjust for that), but Wirtz doesn't have that problem. Anyway, it's always nice to see a young wondertalent excelling (hope Liverpool is keeping tabs, I think he'd fit in great there).

Crazy to think that he's doing this as a key piece for the top team (currently) in the BuLi and he won't even turn 18 until May.


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> No, he can’t defend. He’s a former attacker moved to wingback. Using him as a fullback is also a stretch, which is why he fits well with these Italian teams that use three at the back. Those in the know have been saying that’s where he’ll transfer to. First it was Juventus, and now it seems like other teams (Milan) might’ve started a bidding war. We’ll see where he goes. Supposedly Juventus was a near certainty to sign him and now it’s not so clear what team.



I’ve only see Juve. It’s funny though because the same things were said about Davies.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

SJSharks39 said:


> I’ve only see Juve. It’s funny though because the same things were said about Davies.




Tom Bogert tweeted about Milan a few days ago. An Italian journalist tweeted last week that a lot of Italian teams were involved, but it wasn't going to be Juventus.

I think Davies comes with a more solid foundation for success. He was really good his last season in MLS as a winger. He was bought based on his success playing as a winger. Reynolds is a former striker/winger that was converted to fullback/wingback. He had a trial at Bayern Munich a year or two ago based on FC Dallas' affiliation with Bayern Munich, and it apparently didn't go very well. He struggled initially with the position. Now he's thrust into a starting role because Cannon left. I get what people are saying when they try to compare him to Davies, and why big European teams are interested in a 6'3 fullback/wingback that can fly and has attacker skills, but Reynolds is raw potential. Davies was a proven commodity (for an 18 year old).


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Tom Bogert tweeted about Milan a few days ago. An Italian journalist tweeted last week that a lot of Italian teams were involved, but it wasn't going to be Juventus.
> 
> I think Davies comes with a more solid foundation for success. He was really good his last season in MLS as a winger. He was bought based on his success playing as a winger. Reynolds is a former striker/winger that was converted to fullback/wingback. He had a trial at Bayern Munich a year or two ago based on FC Dallas' affiliation with Bayern Munich, and it apparently didn't go very well. He struggled initially with the position. Now he's thrust into a starting role because Cannon left. I get what people are saying when they try to compare him to Davies, and why big European teams are interested in a 6'3 fullback/wingback that can fly and has attacker skills, but Reynolds is raw potential. Davies was a proven commodity (for an 18 year old).



Don’t get me wrong I don’t think Reynolds will be as good as Davies but I could easily see him turning into a Kyle Walker type RB. Obviously not perfect defensively but fast as hell and offers a lot going forward


----------



## cgf

YNWA14 said:


> I went back to watch the Leverkusen game and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better 17 year old in the world than Wirtz. That kid is just so dynamic, scored a beauty of a goal and has impressed me every time I've seen him play. I had followed him a bit before his breakout and was impressed that he adjusted so quickly. There've been a lot of comparisons to Havertz because of his age of breakout and the team he's on but I think that all the other differences aside one big difference that I think will allow him to excel at the highest level is that he's a livewire; he works hard on the pitch. Havertz has never been a high effort player and we're seeing that now in England (not that he can't adjust for that), but Wirtz doesn't have that problem. Anyway, it's always nice to see a young wondertalent excelling (hope Liverpool is keeping tabs, I think he'd fit in great there).
> 
> Crazy to think that he's doing this as a key piece for the top team (currently) in the BuLi and he won't even turn 18 until May.




He's a lot of fun...I do still worry he'll peak as more of an "unreal at taking advantage of the slightest errors/openings that are presented to him" type creator, rather than a "going to make my own openings & capitalize on them" type; as he reminds me more of a young Özil than the more dynamic threats that Havertz & Hazard were at similar stages...but he's an incredible talent for his age & a pleasure to watch pull the strings for Bosz's boys, either way.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

YNWA14 said:


> I went back to watch the Leverkusen game and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better 17 year old in the world than Wirtz. That kid is just so dynamic, scored a beauty of a goal and has impressed me every time I've seen him play. I had followed him a bit before his breakout and was impressed that he adjusted so quickly. There've been a lot of comparisons to Havertz because of his age of breakout and the team he's on but I think that all the other differences aside one big difference that I think will allow him to excel at the highest level is that he's a livewire; he works hard on the pitch. Havertz has never been a high effort player and we're seeing that now in England (not that he can't adjust for that), but Wirtz doesn't have that problem. Anyway, it's always nice to see a young wondertalent excelling (hope Liverpool is keeping tabs, I think he'd fit in great there).
> 
> Crazy to think that he's doing this as a key piece for the top team (currently) in the BuLi and he won't even turn 18 until May.




Bellingham may be better, but I'm not sure there's any other great candidate. Musiala might be another candidate. Thats probably it.


----------



## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Bellingham may be better, but I'm not sure there's any other great candidate. Musiala might be another candidate. Thats probably it.



Harvey Elliott has impressed me more than Bellingham or Musiala, but I still think Wirtz is easily ahead of those three.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

YNWA14 said:


> Harvey Elliott has impressed me more than Bellingham or Musiala, but I still think Wirtz is easily ahead of those three.




Watch more of Bellingham then. He's brilliant. Already Dortmund's best midfielder. Better than players such as Witsel, Can, Delaney, Dahoud already.


----------



## Evilo

Yeah, he was amazing with his 3 goals against versus Stuttgart.


----------



## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Watch more of Bellingham then. He's brilliant. Already Dortmund's best midfielder. Better than players such as Witsel, Can, Delaney, Dahoud already.



Yeah I've seen him a few times and while he certainly looks like he's got talent I don't think he's as consistently good as Wirtz and Elliott. He had a couple stinkers (not that that's a terrible thing at his age, or unexpected). If we're talking pure talent as well for 03s obviously Cherki has to be considered despite not lighting the world on fire just yet.

Though I've wanted to watch more of Dortmund as well so I'll try and catch those games more consistently with a bit more free time now.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Watch more of Bellingham then. He's brilliant. Already Dortmund's best midfielder. Better than players such as Witsel, Can, Delaney, Dahoud already.



Witsel is your best midfielder even if he was an older-buy.

That said Bellingham has been great for his age...not as great as Wirtz (despite my questions about his ceiling)...but still very impressive.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Witsel is your best midfielder even if he was an older-buy.
> 
> That said Bellingham has been great for his age...not as great as Wirtz (despite my questions about his ceiling)...but still very impressive.




Witsel has been bad for nearly a full calendar year now. He’s too engrained to Favre football. Plays too slow and doesn’t play forward often enough. I think he’ll be one of the big losers under Terzic that is going to emphasize a quicker tempo. He’s been a good purchase, but he may be near his end at the club.


----------



## bluesfan94

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Bellingham may be better, but I'm not sure there's any other great candidate. Musiala might be another candidate. Thats probably it.



I think Cherki is a decent shout too as someone who should at least be mentioned.


----------



## YNWA14

Yeah can't imagine he's been mentioned.


----------



## Savant

Another great goal for Harvey Elliott today


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I know Cherki's hyped at that level, but he has to deliver at some point to warrant consideration at the very top. Cherki doesn't have a goal or assist all season. Wirtz has 5G+5A. Cherki is probably somewhere in the next tier after the top tier. I think the top tier is reserved for the players who are making a big impact right now like Wirtz and Bellingham. Musiala would be the one exception, as he's not playing a huge role, but it's not exactly easy to break into that starting lineup. When he's played, I've been very impressed. I've only briefly seen Elliott play, but it looks like he's having a pretty good season, albeit at a lower level.


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I know Cherki's hyped at that level, but he has to deliver at some point to warrant consideration at the very top. Cherki doesn't have a goal or assist all season. Wirtz has 5G+5A. Cherki is probably somewhere in the next tier after the top tier. I think the top tier is reserved for the players who are making a big impact right now like Wirtz and Bellingham. Musiala would be the one exception, as he's not playing a huge role, but it's not exactly easy to break into that starting lineup. When he's played, I've been very impressed. I've only briefly seen Elliott play, but it looks like he's having a pretty good season, albeit at a lower level.



You also have to look at the team Cherki is on. Lyon are not good and their manager is even worse.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

I don’t think anyone can accurately claim who’s the best prospect out there considering most only watch a drop in a bucket from the sea of talent.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I don’t think anyone can accurately claim who’s the best prospect out there considering most only watch a drop in a bucket from the sea of talent.




I agree, but I think most are talking about guys from the big leagues. I’m sure there are plenty of guys in lower leagues that are very good.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I know Cherki's hyped at that level, but he has to deliver at some point to warrant consideration at the very top. Cherki doesn't have a goal or assist all season. Wirtz has 5G+5A. Cherki is probably somewhere in the next tier after the top tier. I think the top tier is reserved for the players who are making a big impact right now like Wirtz and Bellingham. Musiala would be the one exception, as he's not playing a huge role, but it's not exactly easy to break into that starting lineup. When he's played, I've been very impressed. I've only briefly seen Elliott play, but it looks like he's having a pretty good season, albeit at a lower level.



That would be particularly stupid. 
Rating someone according to his playing time without looking at the context. 
Besides I repeat that Bellingham performance in the 1/5 trashing was one for the ages.... In the negative sense.


----------



## cgf

It depends on what you're rating them on. Are we talking about realistic potential in their primes or current performances? You'll get two radically different lists based on which you use and criteria that is relevant to one discussion can be meaningless to the other.


----------



## Evilo

Using PB's logic, Mbappe is/will be twice the player Cristiano is because at the same age, Ronaldo was trying to establish himself.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Evilo said:


> That would be particularly stupid.
> Rating someone according to his playing time without looking at the context.
> Besides I repeat that Bellingham performance in the 1/5 trashing was one for the ages.... In the negative sense.




A bad game where the whole team sucked and the coach got fired for it.

You could find a bad game from any player.

Anyways, I also think Wirtz has been incredible this season


----------



## Evilo

And? 
He was directly responsible for 3 goals against. That's not really just a bad game.
Meanwhile it's enough (his other 15 games) for some here to claim he's a better prospect than some others because they don't play.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> That would be particularly stupid.
> Rating someone according to his playing time without looking at the context.
> Besides I repeat that Bellingham performance in the 1/5 trashing was one for the ages.... In the negative sense.




I've stopped responding to your posts, as you may have noticed, but I can't help but respond to this ridiculous post that I stumbled upon after seeing that not everything with the discussion was adding up.

Bellingham, like nearly every other player on the team, played a bad game in a 5-1 loss. So what? And he wasn't that bad compared to some of his teammates. Players like as Guerreiro, Akanji, Can, Witsel, Reus were shambolic. Bellingham was bad, but somewhere in the middle of the team, in terms of performances for that game. To make a big point over that game makes no sense, to begin with. What was your thoughts about how he played on Tuesday? I'm sure you have no thoughts because you probably didn't watch the game. Did you even watch him play on Saturday or are you guessing that Bellingham was bad in a big loss? To answer that initial question, Bellingham played very well on Tuesday, like usual.

Second of all, I didn't say anything about Cherki's playing time. I said he's not producing, which is probably why Cherki doesn't play very much. If you are an attacking midfielder and can't score goals or assist them, you likely won't play very much in a good team. I never said that Cherki isn't a big talent or won't be very good eventually, but yes, he is absolutely not impacting games right now anywhere near what Wirtz or Bellingham are. There are one or two others in the top leagues who are impacting games more from that age group.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Speaking of the best prospect in history Pedro is playing in roughly 30 mins. After that game this should settle this crazy debate.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I've stopped responding to your posts, as you may have noticed, but I can't help but respond to this ridiculous post that I stumbled upon after seeing that not everything with the discussion was adding up.
> 
> Bellingham, like nearly every other player on the team, played a bad game in a 5-1 loss. So what? And he wasn't that bad compared to some of his teammates. Players like as Guerreiro, Akanji, Can, Witsel, Reus were shambolic. Bellingham was bad, but somewhere in the middle of the team, in terms of performances for that game. To make a big point over that game makes no sense, to begin with. What was your thoughts about how he played on Tuesday? I'm sure you have no thoughts because you probably didn't watch the game. Did you even watch him play on Saturday or are you guessing that Bellingham was bad in a big loss? To answer that initial question, Bellingham played very well on Tuesday, like usual.
> 
> Second of all, I didn't say anything about Cherki's playing time. I said he's not producing, which is probably why Cherki doesn't play very much. If you are an attacking midfielder and can't score goals or assist them, you likely won't play very much in a good team. I never said that Cherki isn't a big talent or won't be very good eventually, but yes, he is absolutely not impacting games right now anywhere near what Wirtz or Bellingham are. There are one or two others in the top leagues who are impacting games more from that age group.



I didn't talk about Cherki, so no idea why you bring him up.

If you think Bellingham wasn't worse than any other BVB player, you simply are lying. Or maybe you didn't watch the game, which is highly possible. You often comment on players you don't watch.

2nd Suttgart goal was on half him, half on Guerreiro.
Directly responsible for the 4th Stuttgart goal. Managed to miss a simple pass and that turnover directly lead to the goal. Bellingham didn't even try to sprint back BTW.

So my mistake, it wasn't 3, it was 2 goals for him.
He was totally beaten by Stuttgart's pressing. Save for a couple of good moments in the first half, his performance is one for the ages, in the negative way.


----------



## cgf

Eggestein is up to 15 scorer points (12 goals, 3 assists) in as many games for LASK; who fell two points behind Salzburg after their 1-3 defeat to the reigning champs last week...a match in which Jojo scored LASK's lone goal to give them a 1-0 lead in the first half...


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Ah pedro his passing hasn’t been good today my biggest fear with these high flying wingers. That and IQ those are always the 2 questions one has to ask. The dribbles and pace are nice but if those other attributes don’t match up, you won’t have much of a player.


----------



## Cloned

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Ah pedro his passing hasn’t been good today my biggest fear with these high flying wingers. That and IQ those are always the 2 questions one has to ask. The dribbles and pace are nice but if those other attributes don’t match up, you won’t have much of a player.



Adama Traore Syndrome.


----------



## Cloned

What’s a good comparable for Moukoko?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Cloned said:


> What’s a good comparable for Moukoko?




I can't think of anyone in the current game.

My description would be that he's of average height for a CF (around 5'10, but he just turned 16 and 6'0 could be a realistic expectation), and he's already pretty strong physically. He can hold off defenders in the Bundesliga, hold up the ball, and bring teammates into the play. He's pretty good at that, although I wouldn't call him a playmaker. He's pretty fast and I think he has a good first touch, but he's not really a dribbler with the ball. Not his game.

Where he excels are his goalscoring instincts. I think this is an area where its nearly impossible for a 16 year old to stand out to a great extent, but you can already see they are going to be great in another year or two. When he sees a chance, he explodes so quick to the spot where he thinks the ball will arrive. You see this with all the top CF's. He also has incredible composure with the ball in the box. He doesn't just try to shoot at the first chance he can. He'll take a step by a defender, let them fly by, or do a cutback to get a better angle. This is probably the best part of his game. So many players panic in front of goal. He's as composed as they come.

He also has a pretty powerful and accurate shot. He's able to beat goalies clean and place the ball where he wants from a pretty far distance for a central striker. He's mostly left footed, although he can shoot well enough with his right foot, as well. He looks okay on headers for a 16 year old. He'll battle physically for aerial balls, and I like his pressing without the ball. Fearlessly goes into challenges. I also think he shows good movement in behind the defense and understanding of how and when to make runs.

If he needs to improve anywhere I think he needs to sometimes play a little quicker. He loses the ball occasionally from thinking he can dribble a player that he would've been able to in youth football. He needs to make quicker, more simple decisions when the ball arrives to him, but this is a common issue for most players moving from youth football to the Bundesliga. The game is faster and the defenders are better. He'll improve on this with time. If this could be considered a criticism, he's not really a showboater type of player who'll dance with the ball or try extravagant flicks. You might expect this for such a hyped player, but Moukoko's hype is based more on being so effective.


----------



## John Pedro

Cloned said:


> What’s a good comparable for Moukoko?




Lukaku


----------



## cgf

John Pedro said:


> Pele




Agreed.


EDIT:
I'm really struggling for a good current comp because he's a high caliber athlete (especially his quickness), but he's not an unreal speedster like Timo or Haaland. Though he's under-sized atm he's not tiny and should have perfectly fine size when he's done growing up.

He moves really well off the ball already, has nice link up ability, and shows quick feet with the ball in tight spaces/with a man on him...though he's not going to make his living by dribbling through crowds left & right, and is a poacher at heart.

After his goal he started popping up in every dangerous position for a bit, and that's what was so impressive about him at youth levels. The kid would be omnipresent in the final third & had the rocket to bury the chances that just would not stop coming to him, at a ridiculously high clip.


----------



## YNWA14

John Pedro said:


> Lukaku



I can't tell if this is a joke, they don't seem alike at all.


----------



## John Pedro

YNWA14 said:


> I can't tell if this is a joke, they don't seem alike at all.




hahaha yeah I have no idea, never seen this guy play just messing around as Lukaku also had the "next GOAT" hype when he was 16yold


----------



## SJSharks72

cgf said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> I'm really struggling for a good current comp because he's a high caliber athlete (especially his quickness), but he's not an unreal speedster like Timo or Haaland. Though he's under-sized atm he's not tiny and should have perfectly fine size when he's done growing up.
> 
> He moves really well off the ball already, has nice link up ability, and shows quick feet with the ball in tight spaces/with a man on him...though he's not going to make his living by dribbling through crowds left & right, and is a poacher at heart.
> 
> After his goal he started popping up in every dangerous position for a bit, and that's what was so impressive about him at youth levels. The kid would be omnipresent in the final third & had the rocket to bury the chances that just would not stop coming to him, at a ridiculously high clip.



I was thinking a smaller Haaland lite but I haven’t seen as much of him as you and PB.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Cloned said:


> What’s a good comparable for Moukoko?




Ansu Fati. Though Ansu is playing closer to a forward than striker


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Cloned said:


> Adama Traore Syndrome.



He's an outlier, players from Argentina division 3 have better technical ability. I was thinking more Lavezzi. Adama is a running back that thinks he's a soccer player.


----------



## Cloned

Vasilevskiy said:


> Ansu Fati. Though Ansu is playing closer to a forward than striker



Fati is only 18 himself though. I think it would be fair to ask what’s a comparable for him, much less using him as a comparable for a 16 year old.


----------



## Cloned

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> He's an outlier, players from Argentina division 3 have better technical ability. I was thinking more Lavezzi. Adama is a running back that thinks he's a soccer player.




Still fits your description of pacey with no soccer IQ or passing ability though.


----------



## Bure80

Cloned said:


> What’s a good comparable for Moukoko?




Samuel Eto'o


----------



## Cloned

Bure80 said:


> Samuel Eto'o



Does he have Eto’o’s pace?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Eto’o
Fati
Lukaku

has anyone said Iginla or Anson Carter?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

SJSharks39 said:


> I was thinking a smaller Haaland lite but I haven’t seen as much of him as you and PB.




I thought of that, but didn’t want to mention it because I think the physical difference is significant.



Bure80 said:


> Samuel Eto'o




This is what I was closest to saying.


----------



## cgf

SJSharks39 said:


> I was thinking a smaller Haaland lite but I haven’t seen as much of him as you and PB.




I don't like that comp either because he's not a freak athlete the way Erling is. Like size & speed won't be issues for him, but neither is what makes him special. He's really quick, but that isn't what makes him unique either...though his burst/short-area quickness is probably the closest any of his physical traits come to elite.

Maybe Eto'o after he slowed down a little or a quicker version of Klose who wasn't as lethal in the air? But I don't like those that much either since he's quite different from both of them, even if there are elements of their games in his :-/

OT but I'll be curious to see if his instincts lead to him being a much better aerial threat than his physique would suggest, because all of the guys that are coming to mind who moved without the ball as well as Moukoko were either playmakers or became great aerial threats (Klose / Gerd) despite their size.


----------



## Bure80

cgf said:


> I don't like that comp either because he's not a freak athlete the way Erling is. Like size & speed won't be issues for him, but neither is what makes him special. He's really quick, but that isn't what makes him unique either...though his burst/short-area quickness is probably the closest any of his physical traits come to elite.
> 
> Maybe Eto'o after he slowed down a little or a quicker version of Klose who wasn't as lethal in the air? But I don't like those that much either since he's quite different from both of them, even if there are elements of their games in his :-/
> 
> OT but I'll be curious to see if his instincts lead to him being a much better aerial threat than his physique would suggest, because all of the guys that are coming to mind who moved without the ball as well as Moukoko were either playmakers or became great aerial threats (Klose / Gerd) despite their size.




Well dont forget he is closer to 15 as 17. You cant compare his physique with full grown man. In his prime he will be alot faster as he is now. In one game he alreaday was Dortmunds fastest player. Moukoko's fastest run was measured with 34,7 km/h. Thats just 0,5km/h slower as Haaland. Werner's fastest run was measured with 35,0 km/h. I wouldnt bet against Moukoko as the fastest player of these 3 in a few years.

Fastest Bundesliga players:
Nicht zu stoppen: Die schnellsten Spieler der Bundesliga | bwin


----------



## cgf

Bure80 said:


> Well dont forget he is closer to 15 as 17. You cant compare his physique with full grown man. In his prime he will be alot faster as he is now. In one game he alreaday was Dortmunds fastest player. Moukoko's fastest run was measured with 34,7 km/h. Thats just 0,5km/h slower as Haaland. Werner's fastest run was measured with 35,0 km/h. I wouldnt bet against Moukoko as the fastest player of these 3 in a few years.
> 
> Fastest Bundesliga players:
> Nicht zu stoppen: Die schnellsten Spieler der Bundesliga | bwin




While the age point is a fair one; when you watched Werner or Haaland at youth levels their speed just lept off the screen and was the first thing you could notice about them. It's not the same with Moukoko...though speed is obviously not a problem for him, it's also not slapping you in the face right away.

I won't be surprised if he ends up the best of that trio, but I'll be surprised if it's because of his speed.


----------



## Savant

Moukoko might be a bit bigger, but sounds a bit like Aguero


----------



## cgf

Savant said:


> Moukoko might be a bit bigger, but sounds a bit like Aguero




That's actually one I was thinking about, but I don't remember a young Aguero too well. Wasn't he more of a playmaker than poacher as a youth player?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

He’s bigger and a lot quicker than Aguero, but I’ve seen that comparison used before.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> He’s bigger and a lot quicker than Aguero, but I’ve seen that comparison used before.




I don't know about him being a lot quicker. Aguero's quickness & burst with Atleti is what made me think of him as potential comp for Moukoko...although obviously he's smaller and IIRC he developed into a poacher at the senior level, instead of breaking through with an already advanced sense for where to be without the ball.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Creed Bratton said:


> However, this might be premature, but the two largest talents seem to be Dane Scarlett (16 y/o, striker) and Alfie Devine (16 y/o, central midfielder). Both of them have already proven themselves far above the level of the U18's and started featuring for the U23's. Scarlett even got a few minutes for the first team against Ludogorets and looked incredibly good.




Devine became the young Spur to ever score over the weekend and today.....Scarlett scored....and scored....and scored....and scored....and scored. (#3 and #5 are really nice and he does his PK's just like Kane)


----------

