# Soccer Prospect Discussion Thread VI



## Halladay

Previous thread

Soccer Prospect Discussion Thread V | Page 45 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League (mandatory.com)


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## cgf

Just pinning this for myself cause I'll probably get bored & redo this in the spring.




cgf said:


> Since we were talking about german kids, here's a slightly out of date list of kids that I've either seen enough to rate confidently or whom I've seen enough to be intrigued by & want to see more of.
> 
> Order is loosely based on a combination of potential & readiness, as this started off as a list of kids who might alleviate our NT's lack of depth in the near future, but don't take the specific order too seriously. The tiers are more useful; though even there some kids who are low on these lists are only low because I haven't seen enough of them, I want to wait to see how their transition goes, or I am more concerned with their environment than their talent.
> 
> Kids with *'s on both sides of their names are kids who I have big concerns with because they are stagnating or losing a lot of dev-time to injuries, but who are still young enough to capitalize on their high potential if they can get things going in the right direction.
> - Mbom being a prime example this, as he has finally been healthy enough to break into Werder's senior team & is still young enough to become that Alaba-lite that he once looked like he could become.
> - Kuhn being another example who's done his stock wonders since joining Bayern II in the third division after having seemed to stagnate since Leipzig couldn't integrate him into their senior side.
> 
> 
> *Forwards*
> Youssoufa Moukoko (’04)
> ————————
> Karim Adeyemi (’02)
> ————————
> Malik Tillman (’02)
> Maximilian Beier (’02)
> *Fiete Arp* (’00)
> *Jabez Makanda* (’01)
> ————————
> David Hummel (’02)
> Jonathan Burkhardt (’00)
> Lukas Nmecha (’98)
> Emrehan Gedikli (’03)
> Nick Woltemade (’02)
> Sebastian Müller (’01)
> David Otto (’99)
> Jessic Ngankam (’00)
> Florian Krüger (’99)
> 
> *Attackers*
> Oliver Batista Meier (’01)
> Leon Dajaku (’01)
> Florian Wirtz (’03)
> Lazar Samardzic (’02)
> Mika Schroers (’02)
> Luca Barata (’03)
> Nicolas Kühn (’00)
> Jan Thielmann (’02)
> Fabrice Hartmann (’01)
> Lilian Egloff (’02)
> Roberto Massimo (’00)
> Mehmet Can Aydin (’02)
> Erkan Eyibil (’01)
> Paul Nebel (’02)
> ————————
> Ismail Jakobs (’99)
> Armindo Sieb (’03)
> Turan Calhanoglu (’03)
> Jamie Leweling (’01)
> John Yeboah (’00)
> 
> Didn't really know where to separate the tiers with these kids as even the likes of Massimo & Eyibil have the talent to become NT starters if they develop well. So I just couldn't separate one prospect from the next to create a top tier in this group.
> 
> *Midfielders*
> Arne Maier (’99)
> Dennis Geiger (’98)
> Angelo Stiller (’01)
> Rocco Reitz (’02)
> Marveille Papela (’01)
> Can Bozdogan (’01)
> Torben Rhein (’03)
> *Elias Abouchabaka* (’00)
> *Jean Manuel Mbom* (’00)
> ————————
> Tobias Raschl (’00)
> Adrian Fein (’99)
> Niklas Dorsch (’98)
> 
> There will be AM prospects who end up joining this group as Bozdogan & Abouchabaka have. Aydin being one that I feel is very likely to end up at the 6 or 8 (if not FB); while both Wirtz & Samardzic remind me a lot of a young Brandt...who nowadays is at his most dynamic in a midfield 3 as an 8/10 hybrid.
> 
> *CB*
> Lars Lukas Mai (’00)
> Antonis Aidonis* (’01)
> Jordan Torunarigha (’97)
> Arbnor Aliu (’03)
> Nico Schlotterbeck (’00)
> Jordi Bongard (’01)
> Marton Dardai (’02)
> Bright Arrey-Mbi (’03)
> Armel Bella-Kotchap (’01)
> Malik Talabidi (’01)
> 
> *Aidonis is likely to end up shifted around like Kehrer, a similarly sized highend CB prospect who’s skill & athleticism looked to translate well into a highend-utility role as a FB in a back 4 / outside CB in a back 3 / deep midfielder. And I worry about Aliu facing similar issues if he doesn't have another significant growth spurt in him.
> 
> *FB/WB*
> Ridle Baku (’98)
> Luca Netz (’03)
> Kilian Ludewig (’00)
> Kaan Kurt (’01)
> *Jean Manuel Mbom* (’00)
> Mehmet Can Aydin (’02)
> Can Bozdogan (’01)
> Kerim Calhanoglu (’02)
> *Luca Itter* (’99)
> Lennart Czyborra (’99)
> Noah Katterbach (’01)
> Ismail Jakobs (’99)
> Jamie Leweling (’01)
> Malik Talabidi (’01)
> Ryan Adigo (’01)
> 
> I don't know how to assess goalie prospects but these are the guys who are already developing at the senior level and/or highly rated by others:
> *GK*
> Christian Früchtl (’00)
> Alexander Nübel (’96)
> Markus Schubert (’98)
> Luca Plogmann (’00)
> Luca Unbehaun (’01)
> Florian Müller (’97)
> Florian Kastenmeier (’97)
> Lennart Moser (’99)


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## East Coast Bias

Has anyone seen/heard about Moises Caicedo? He’s a 19 year old Ecuadorean MF playing for Independiente del Valle. He’s played a few times for the senior national team lately. 

Man United are apparently discussing a transfer with his club and would like to get him over to England in the January window. Sounds like Antonio Valencia put them on to him.


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## Savant




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## JeffreyLFC

East Coast Bias said:


> Has anyone seen/heard about Moises Caicedo? He’s a 19 year old Ecuadorean MF playing for Independiente del Valle. He’s played a few times for the senior national team lately.
> 
> Man United are apparently discussing a transfer with his club and would like to get him over to England in the January window. Sounds like Antonio Valencia put them on to him.



Does he have an european passport? It has been crazy getting teenager from South America to England because the authories are always rejecting their work permit application.


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## East Coast Bias

JeffreyLFC said:


> Does he have an european passport? It has been crazy getting teenager from South America to England because the authories are always rejecting their work permit application.




Not sure tbh. It’s picking up steam now. We’ll see. I don’t know the reliable South American sources but it does appear to be going through.


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## Evilo

Cherki only played a few minutes yesterday.
He makes a difference every time he touches the ball.


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## Duchene2MacKinnon

Damn all the youth competitions are cancelled.


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## Savant

Harvey Elliott with an assist today. It feels like he is on the scoresheet every week. Making a mockery of the Championship.


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## John Pedro

East Coast Bias said:


> Has anyone seen/heard about Moises Caicedo? He’s a 19 year old Ecuadorean MF playing for Independiente del Valle. He’s played a few times for the senior national team lately.
> 
> Man United are apparently discussing a transfer with his club and would like to get him over to England in the January window. Sounds like Antonio Valencia put them on to him.




He's been a standout for them against some big Brazilian sides. Independiente del Valle has had some success wth young players lately. Is not easy to judge their guys cause of the altitude. They look great at home but usually get smashed away from the thin air.

That said, he should probably join a Brazilian or Argentinian side before making the leap to a club like United.


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## Savant

Does anyone know anything about Celta Vigo youth CB Stefan Bajcetic Maquieira?


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## Vasilevskiy

Not me, has not played for the main club AFAIK


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## Duchene2MacKinnon

Zeballos turning heads in the recent matches he's played. Of the two u17 stars he's been more impressive than Palacios although he's been given a much greater chance. Not unlike the "older" Almada/ De la Vega. 

Also liked what I saw of Avilla. All ones to watch.


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## Savant

Exclusive: Liverpool sign 16-year-old defender Stefan Bajcetic


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## Savant




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## les Habs

Somebody needs to tell @Savant that the likelihood Liverpool are going to be relegated this season is extremely slim.


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## Savant

les Habs said:


> Somebody needs to tell @Savant that the likelihood Liverpool are going to be relegated this season is extremely slim.



I mean if they keep losing center backs....

aNd NoT bEaTiNg BoTtOm 3


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## Savant

another one


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## cgf

Moukoko was the big story of german youth football over the first half of the season, but our youth NT forwards who are playing abroad this season seem to following in the footsteps of Kevin Volland & Luka Waldschmidt.

22yo Lukas Nmecha has picked up 10 goals in 17 appearances for Anderlecht. 22yo Mergim Berisha boasting 7 in 10 for Salzburg, but more impressively 4 goals & 2 assists in 6 CL matches...including goals in both Bayern matches and a pair of assists in their first match with Atleti. While his 18yo team-mate, Karim Adeyemi, got his first CL goal during the 50 minutes he logged in that competition and has carved out a spot as a dangerous joker off of Salzburg's bench.

Even JoJo (Johannes Eggestein) got his value increased by transfermarkt for the first time since early 2019, after having 12 goals & 3 assists in 16 appearances for an LASK that have been doing surprisingly well this season.

Not really sure what to make of Berisha, as he has consistently disappointed me on the various youth teams I have watched him play for. But if he has actually put it all together and keeps banging them in for fun, that would be a really interesting development.


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## Evilo

Hachim Mastour just scored his first pro goal of his career.
At age 22.
In Serie C.

Once deemed a future star.


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## VEGASKING

Transfermarkt posts graphics of players careers in reverse. They just did his recently. Hardly played for anyone in 8 years.

Hachim Mastour - Detailed stats


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## Savant

another assist yesterday. Bring him back early


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## Evilo




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## Savant

Liverpool close in on Kaide Gordon: 'The best 16-year-old in the country'


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Dortmund is signing CF Julian Rijkhoff from Ajax. He turned 16 a few days ago, and is thus allowed to move to Germany. He’s immediately been put into the U-19’s. Apparently he was very highly rated at Ajax, and they wanted to keep hold of him. Any info on this player @YNWA14 @Ajacied?


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## Evilo

Amad Diallo had his first U23 game for United. He scored twice.


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## Savant




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## Vasilevskiy

Savant said:


>





Some of those assists are world class


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## Venkman

Evilo said:


> Amad Diallo had his first U23 game for United. He scored twice.




Promising, a few more 90 minutes to build fitness then hopefully on the first team bench.


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## Savant

Good intro for Diallo, but as a reminder to people who don’t know, NOBODY plays defense in PL Academy Level


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## gscorer

Finnish prospect Naatan Skyttä to Toulouse FC, in the footsteps of Monsieur Magic


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## Ajacied

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Dortmund is signing CF Julian Rijkhoff from Ajax. He turned 16 a few days ago, and is thus allowed to move to Germany. He’s immediately been put into the U-19’s. Apparently he was very highly rated at Ajax, and they wanted to keep hold of him. Any info on this player @YNWA14 @Ajacied?




Rijkhof is a trickery, goal orientated striker who uses his frame very well. High potential for sure. He’s scored in absolute bunches this year.

Ajax just can’t seem to keep their striker prodigies. Malen, Hoogewerf, Redan, Rijkhof and now Brobbey also declared he’ll leave Ajax this summer.


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## Eye of Ra

Ajacied said:


> Rijkhof is a trickery, goal orientated striker who uses his frame very well. High potential for sure. He’s scored in absolute bunches this year.
> 
> Ajax just can’t seem to keep their striker prodigies. Malen, Hoogewerf, Redan, Rijkhof and now Brobbey also declared he’ll leave Ajax this summer.




Where is Brobbey going/


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## Savant

So LFC has the best English 17 year old and best English 16 year old now


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## East Coast Bias

Hannibal playing through balls to Amad.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Savant said:


> So LFC has the best English 17 year old and best English 16 year old now





I'm going to take exception to that.

I think Bellingham is better the Elliott, but Elliott is good. I'm not doubting that. Musiala is also somewhere in this discussion.

I know less about the England 2004's, but I saw Gordon's England age group play about a year ago and Bynoe-Gittens was by far England's best player. Gordon was a complimentary player on that team. Maybe thats changed since.


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## Evilo

East Coast Bias said:


> Hannibal playing through balls to Amad.




Hannibal Mejbri needs to see some pro time.


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## Savant

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm going to take exception to that.
> 
> I think Bellingham is better the Elliott, but Elliott is good. I'm not doubting that. Musiala is also somewhere in this discussion.
> 
> I know less about the England 2004's, but I saw Gordon's England age group play about a year ago and Bynoe-Gittens was by far England's best player. Gordon was a complimentary player on that team. Maybe thats changed since.



I will give you Bellingham but haven’t seen Musiala do what Elliott is doing every week. 

To my knowledge, I am hearing Gorton has passed Bynoe-Gittens largely due to consistency. Gorton was also started to make the Derby bench before leaving and was getting some (although not many) minutes. Will be interesting to see how everyone progresses though.


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## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm going to take exception to that.
> 
> I think Bellingham is better the Elliott, but Elliott is good. I'm not doubting that. Musiala is also somewhere in this discussion.




Why do you think that Bellingham is better than Elliott?



> I know less about the England 2004's, but I saw Gordon's England age group play about a year ago and Bynoe-Gittens was by far England's best player. Gordon was a complimentary player on that team. Maybe thats changed since.



Nitpicking, but it's complementary (I've just seen this a few times now).


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Savant said:


> I will give you Bellingham but haven’t seen Musiala do what Elliott is doing every week.
> 
> To my knowledge, I am hearing Gorton has passed Bynoe-Gittens largely due to consistency. Gorton was also started to make the Derby bench before leaving and was getting some (although not many) minutes. Will be interesting to see how everyone progresses though.




Musiala doesn’t get to play every week. That doesn’t mean he’s worse though than guys playing every week. Supposedly he’s about to be capped by the German National Team. 

It’s harder to know with younger players. None of these guys are playing first team football yet. Those in England might have a slight leg up with development of late because the younger age groups are playing. In Germany, the U-19’s haven’t been playing for months.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

YNWA14 said:


> Why do you think that Bellingham is better than Elliott?




He’s a starter for a team in a roughly similar place in their league to the team that loaned Elliott out to the second division. 

Bellingham is playing at a higher level and he’s already in the England squad. Bellingham is also playing very well. If he wasn’t he wouldn’t be playing and earning a call to the England squad. Elliott might end up as good (or better), but he’s a lot less proven.


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## Evilo




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## Vasilevskiy

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> He’s a starter for a team in a roughly similar place in their league to the team that loaned Elliott out to the second division.
> 
> Bellingham is playing at a higher level and he’s already in the England squad. Bellingham is also playing very well. If he wasn’t he wouldn’t be playing and earning a call to the England squad. *Elliott might end up as good (or better), but he’s a lot less proven*.




Right now is hard to argue against Bellingham, they also play different positions.
Elliott looks insane though, has to feature on next year's Liverpool team.


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## Evilo

People mix potential with precocity.


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## cgf

Evilo said:


> People mix potential with precocity.




I am always surprised by how often people forget that development is not linear.


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## Jussi

Evilo said:


> Hannibal Mejbri needs to see some pro time.




United tried to get him loaned abroad but Covid made issues too difficult.


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## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> I am always surprised by how often people forget that development is not linear.



This needs to be sticked!


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## East Coast Bias

Jussi said:


> United tried to get him loaned abroad but Covid made issues too difficult.




He’s talking about the senior United team. They should give him a game. 

Pogba may be injured. Fred is awful.


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## SJSharks72

East Coast Bias said:


> He’s talking about the senior United team. They should give him a game.
> 
> Pogba may be injured. Fred is awful.



Fred and Mejbri don’t really play the same position from what I’ve seen. Fred is a D-mid.


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## East Coast Bias

SJSharks39 said:


> Fred and Mejbri don’t really play the same position from what I’ve seen. Fred is a D-mid.




correct. We do not need to play 2 DMs in Fred and McT every game. Pogba coming out meant going right to Fred and having 2 of the same player, restricting the attack and possession.


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## SJSharks72

East Coast Bias said:


> correct. We do not need to play 2 DMs in Fred and McT every game. Pogba coming out meant going right to Fred and having 2 of the same player, restricting the attack and possession.



We do need 2 DMs. Have you seen our backline?


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## East Coast Bias

SJSharks39 said:


> We do need 2 DMs. Have you seen our backline?




yes I have. How did Fred and McT work yesterday? The best way to not expose the line is to not give it away in MF the entire game bc the MF is full of guys who can’t play the ball.


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## SJSharks72

East Coast Bias said:


> yes I have. How did Fred and McT work yesterday? The best way to not expose the line is to not give it away in MF the entire game bc the MF is full of guys who can’t play the ball.



How did Maguire/Shaw/DDG do on the first goal? Entire backline on the third? Honestly entire back line on the 2nd?


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## Evilo

Among Uruguay's youngsters, 6 out of 10 are playing football in a club.


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## Jussi

Diallo made his senior debut and no comments from Evilo...


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## Evilo




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## Evilo

Gouiri obtained and scored a penalty today.

In other news, I repeatedly told you guys about Giorgino Rutter, who signed for Hoffenheim this winter from Rennes.
He came in at the 87th minute today for his first game under his new jersey.
He scored 4 minutes later.


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## Savant

Evilo said:


> Gouiri obtained and scored a penalty today.
> 
> In other news, I repeatedly told you guys about Giorgino Rutter, who signed for Hoffenheim this winter from Rennes.
> He came in at the 87th minute today for his first game under his new jersey.
> He scored 4 minutes later.



Gouiri reminds be a bit of Firmino. Not really sure why but yeah. This he’s a Firmino starter kit.


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## Eye of Ra

Mike Verweij said that Brobbey has changed his mind a bit after the faith the club has put in him and is now thinking about signing an extension. Good news for Ajax if true.


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## Evilo




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## Evilo

French Euro 21 list is out...
SICK.


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## Evilo

-------------Lafont---------------
Dagba-Kounde-Fofana-Maouassa
-----------Kamara---------------
----Tchouameni-Camavinga----
----------Aouar----------
---Edouard---Gouiri---

Bench options : Ikone, Diaby (if you play with wingers), Soumare, Guendouzi, Konate, Badiashile, Meslier.....

CRAZY.


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## Evilo

This also means that the following players weren't selected : Maxence Lacroix, Nicolas Cozza, Caqueret (Seniors?), Melvin Bard, Pape Gueye, Adli, Diop, Cherki, Y. Fofana, Ait Nouri, Todibo, Kalimuendo, Saliba, Ndicka, etc...


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## Duchene2MacKinnon

Not the biggest miss but w.e


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## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


> French Euro 21 list is out...
> SICK.




I don’t generally follow youth players that much outside of the USMNT MLS players and maybe a little bit from United but the fact that I recognize a majority of these names either speaks volumes to how often you talk about these guys or how good these guys are or a mix of both.


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## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> I don’t generally follow youth players that much outside of the USMNT MLS players and maybe a little bit from United but the fact that I recognize a majority of these names either speaks volumes to how often you talk about these guys or how good these guys are or a mix of both.



It will be interesting to see how long France can maintain producing this stupid amount of talent.


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## Evilo

SJSharks39 said:


> I don’t generally follow youth players that much outside of the USMNT MLS players and maybe a little bit from United but the fact that I recognize a majority of these names either speaks volumes to how often you talk about these guys or how good these guys are or a mix of both.



Well, guys you ought to know :
Meslier (Leeds keeper), Fofana (one of the best in the EPL), Kounde (dominating La Liga), Camavinga (sensation), Aouar (CL QF MOTM), Guendouzi (Arsenal starter before age 20), Diaby (one of the best wingers in the Bundesliga).

Players you likely know :
Kamara (OM totally a great player in the making), Lafont (FM's best youth goalie for years), Badiashile (half the EPL big teams want him), Kalulu (slowly establishing himself at Milan), Konate (Leipzig big talent), Soumare (every EPL big team wants him), Edouard (domating Scotland and targeted by big EPL teams), Gouiri (sensation), Ikone (Lille winger)

Guys you might not have heard too much of :
Bertaud (backup goalie), Dagba (PSG's 3rd RB option), Maouassa (former winger, excellent LB), Truffert (competing with Maouassa at Rennes), Faivre (very exciting Brest talent from Monaco's academy), Tchouameni (currently one of the best MF in L1), Kolo Muani (was MOTM at PSG yesterday).


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## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


> Well, guys you ought to know :
> Meslier (Leeds keeper), Fofana (one of the best in the EPL), Kounde (dominating La Liga), Camavinga (sensation), Aouar (CL QF MOTM), Guendouzi (Arsenal starter before age 20), Diaby (one of the best wingers in the Bundesliga).
> 
> Players you likely know :
> Kamara (OM totally a great player in the making), Lafont (FM's best youth goalie for years), Badiashile (half the EPL big teams want him), Kalulu (slowly establishing himself at Milan), Konate (Leipzig big talent), Soumare (every EPL big team wants him), Edouard (domating Scotland and targeted by big EPL teams), Gouiri (sensation), Ikone (Lille winger)
> 
> Guys you might not have heard too much of :
> Bertaud (backup goalie), Dagba (PSG's 3rd RB option), Maouassa (former winger, excellent LB), Truffert (competing with Maouassa at Rennes), Faivre (very exciting Brest talent from Monaco's academy), Tchouameni (currently one of the best MF in L1), Kolo Muani (was MOTM at PSG yesterday).



I know all of the guys in the first two and Dagba, Tchouameni in the last one as well as heard of Maoussa


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## East Coast Bias

@Evilo


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## Evilo

Well Faivre is someone to watch when you get the chance. So subtle technically. No chance of starting with this team though 
Truffert is an interesting young LB. Kolo Muani is hard to project, but he's powerful and good in front of the net. Bertaud I don't have rated but he's 3rd goalie anyway.


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## Evilo

East Coast Bias said:


> @Evilo




Good, but he needs to play. He's an amazing talent but has nothing to do in the youth ranks anymore.


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## Evilo

Feel weird to see him look much older now 
I still remember him as a small kid.


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## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


> Good, but he needs to play. He's an amazing talent but has nothing to do in the youth ranks anymore.



He needs to go out on loan.


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## East Coast Bias

If he didn’t get injured a month ago I think he would have had some senior minutes due to the injuries in MF. Bad luck with the injury bc the timing was there.


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## gary69

Evilo said:


> This also means that the following players weren't selected : Maxence Lacroix, Nicolas Cozza, *Caqueret (Seniors?)*, Melvin Bard, Pape Gueye, Adli, Diop, Cherki, Y. Fofana, Ait Nouri, Todibo, Kalimuendo, Saliba, Ndicka, etc...




Hasn't Aouar started more in L1 than Caqueret, a bit weird that the latter would be in the senior national team ahead of him.


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## Evilo

Yes but Caqueret has performed better.


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## Eye of Ra

Netherlands u21 list is out aswell.






surprised Rensch and Ihatteran is not there. Gravenbach would be a lock too, but he is probaly a lock for the Senior Team.


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## YNWA14

I don't expect much from this group.


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## Jussi

Evilo said:


> Good, but he needs to play. He's an amazing talent but has nothing to do in the youth ranks anymore.




He's been injured for a month as well.


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## Jussi

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Not the biggest miss but w.e





Oh f*** off Germany for picking Thiaw... He was going to play for us last Fall but Covid cancelled the games. He can still pick us for the senior level though.


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## Jussi

Up to June 2024 with an option year.


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## Savant

Easily a top 5-10 player in the Championship this season. Will be a shame if he doesn’t get minutes next season. Not many better 17 year olds in the world right now.


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## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Not many better 17 year olds in the world right now.



If any.


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## JeffreyLFC

Savant said:


> Easily a top 5-10 player in the Championship this season. Will be a shame if he doesn’t get minutes next season. Not many better 17 year olds in the world right now.




I am very worried about LFC hyped youngster since Woodburn debacle.

I am cautious optimistic but he will have to continue his progress.


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## Savant

JeffreyLFC said:


> I am very worried about LFC hyped youngster since Woodburn debacle.
> 
> I am cautious optimistic but he will have to continue his progress.



Woodburn never put up numbers like this. These are historic Championship numbers for someone at that age. Not saying he will be the second coming, bur he is certainly ready for minutes next season. Hell he probably would have gotten minutes if he didn’t get loaned out


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## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Woodburn never put up numbers like this. These are historic Championship numbers for someone at that age. Not saying he will be the second coming, bur he is certainly ready for minutes next season. Hell he probably would have gotten minutes if he didn’t get loaned out



Elliott definitely looks better than Woodburn did at the same age, but Woodburn also ended up marred by injury which we've seen screw up a lot of young, bright talents. Though he did recently score a hattrick in an intrasquad friendly, and is still only 21.


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## Power Man

I rarely post here

But when I do, I go full homer mode


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## Evilo




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## Savant

Harvey Elliott goal. Celebrated with a Hillsborough remembrance message on his undershirt. This guy wants to be a Liverpool legend.


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## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Harvey Elliott goal. Celebrated with a Hillsborough remembrance message on his undershirt. This guy wants to be a Liverpool legend.




The potential is there for him to be.


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## Evilo

It's been a while I forgot to talk to you guys about Pape Matar Sarr.
Hyped as the next great african player, he signed in Metz in january. 
He's a central midfielder, Ndombele, B2B type of player.
First game he scored and IIRC added an assist. He also scored a few other times.
The guy is a special talent. You can't take the ball away from him and he break the lines as if it's too easy.
After less than 2 months, United and Lyon have already contacted Metz (and probably others).
Keep an eye on him and sign him in next year's Football Manager edition.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Evilo

Another guy to keep an eye on : 
Enzo Le Fee.
Was last year one of the best Ligue 2 players.
This year, he's starting to play up to his talents after some shy debuts earlier.
He's a CM/AMC, excellent, excellent passer.
Son of a former player, his dad died this month (suicide at age 21).
He's got tremendous IQ and Lorient will have trouble keeping him. Monaco among others are prepated to buy him with big money next summer. Marseille also interested.


----------



## Savant

Harvey Elliott with the truly terrible new tattoo


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Harvey Elliott with the truly terrible new tattoo




Why is it terrible? Looks like it has more meaning than most of the random ink footballers get these days.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

While all the attention are on Harvey Elliott... another top LFC prospect from the academy is flying off the radar.


----------



## Evilo

5 nominees but...
Diop is from Rennes' academy (like Camavinga)
Caqueret and Gouiri are from Lyon's.
Tchouameni was from Bordeaux'.

Interesting to see that such young players have moved early and it has paid off (though I feel they would have broken through with their original team as well).


----------



## AB13

How good is Tchouaneni anyway? On first sight Tchouameni seems primed to be the upgraded version of Fernandinho to me but can he end up as a box to box type? Has the physical power, engine and ball striking to be a world class Box to Box, reminds me of Ballack. I think City should go for him. Only seen him a couple times but he looks really, really good.


----------



## Evilo

He's been amazing this year. Totally b2b.


----------



## East Coast Bias

@Evilo this kid is the real deal

he also got a red card later. He was getting kicked and fouled all game, something that has been a problem at this level all season. He mocked giving the ref a card after nothing was called on another foul. Lol.


----------



## Jussi

East Coast Bias said:


> @Evilo this kid is the real deal
> 
> he also got a red card later. He was getting kicked and fouled all game, something that has been a problem at this level all season. He mocked giving the ref a card after nothing was called on another foul. Lol.





Better quality with replays:



Since they played yesterday, it rules out several players from playing today vs Leicester.

As someone said in the replies, maybe he saw James Garner's goal and took it personally:



I hope Garner gets some muscle on that frame during the summer and gets in the squad. Probably will spend another season, or at least half, on loan.


----------



## Evilo

East Coast Bias said:


> @Evilo this kid is the real deal
> 
> he also got a red card later. He was getting kicked and fouled all game, something that has been a problem at this level all season. He mocked giving the ref a card after nothing was called on another foul. Lol.




Yeah he has a temper.
But awfully talented. I drafted him two years ago in my keeper league before he was even in Football Manager.


----------



## Jussi

Evilo said:


> Yeah he has a temper.
> But awfully talented. I drafted him two years ago in my keeper league before he was even in Football Manager.




He would have made his United senior team debut already if not for that injury break.


----------



## Savant

Isn’t this @les Habs pick from the Camavinga trade now?


----------



## Evilo

Rayan Cherki is playing 5 minutes per game with Genius Garcia and he still just achieved the following : youngest player in more than 15 years to be decisive in 3 straight games.


----------



## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


> Rayan Cherki is playing 5 minutes per game with Genius Garcia and he still just achieved the following : youngest player in more than 15 years to be decisive in 3 straight games.



How do you define decisive? Genuinely asking. I’ve never heard that be used as a stat.


----------



## Evilo

goal or assist.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


>




France is a cheat code and I don't like it.


----------



## Evilo

Bouba Kamara with a huge slap to the face. Was rumored to be considered for the senior NT only to be ignored on the U21 selection.
If Ripoll sees him as DM, there's in fact no space for him. Camavinga, Caqueret, Soumare, Fofana and Tchouameni are worthy selections.
If Ripoll sees him as CB, it's tighter but with Upamecano and Fofana he wouldn't start anyway.

Guendouzi is injured (otherwise he's the captain).
Ikone or Diaby will go to the bench. Edouard is the best scorer in french U21 history. Gouiri is an obvious starter.
Kalulu and Dagba will fight for the RB spot and Maouassa and Truffert will fight for the LB spot.

I have on idea how they're going to fit everyone in midfield. 3 guys out of Aouar, Camavinga, Caqueret, Fofana, Soumare and Tchouameni? Yuck.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

So many of those players should be with the senior side. Zero excuse for Sissoko over any of those midfielders, and little excuse for Zouma and Lenglet over Upa or Fofana


----------



## SJSharks72

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> So many of those players should be with the senior side. Zero excuse for Sissoko over any of those midfielders, and little excuse for Zouma and Lenglet over Upa or Fofana



I agree unless the plan for those 3 guys is basically bench depth. I understand the higher ups wanting to win all competitions.


----------



## Evilo

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> So many of those players should be with the senior side. Zero excuse for Sissoko over any of those midfielders, and little excuse for Zouma and Lenglet over Upa or Fofana



The reasonning (I think) is that Sissoko and Zouma won't see the pitch much anyway. Might as well give those guys some starting time with the U21.
But yeah, as I said, if you select only the best players, the NT would be much more loaded. Don't forget Ndombele, Lacazette and others who could be with the NT without depleting the U21 and who are better than Sissoko or Thuram.


----------



## Evilo

Worth mentionning that Ripoll is an awful coach.


----------



## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


> Worth mentionning that Ripoll is an awful coach.



If that team doesn’t win DESPITE their coach it’s a failure. That team is absolutely stacked and should have close to the best player at every position.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Bouba Kamara with a huge slap to the face. Was rumored to be considered for the senior NT only to be ignored on the U21 selection.
> If Ripoll sees him as DM, there's in fact no space for him. Camavinga, Caqueret, Soumare, Fofana and Tchouameni are worthy selections.
> If Ripoll sees him as CB, it's tighter but with Upamecano and Fofana he wouldn't start anyway.
> 
> Guendouzi is injured (otherwise he's the captain).
> Ikone or Diaby will go to the bench. Edouard is the best scorer in french U21 history. Gouiri is an obvious starter.
> Kalulu and Dagba will fight for the RB spot and Maouassa and Truffert will fight for the LB spot.
> 
> I have on idea how they're going to fit everyone in midfield. 3 guys out of Aouar, Camavinga, Caqueret, Fofana, Soumare and Tchouameni? Yuck.



Any reason Saliba wasn't selected? Haven't followed him closely this season.


----------



## SJSharks72

bluesfan94 said:


> Any reason Saliba wasn't selected? Haven't followed him closely this season.



I would assume it's because all those CBs played big roles all season for their clubs.


----------



## bluesfan94

SJSharks39 said:


> I would assume it's because all those CBs played big roles all season for their clubs.



So did Saliba, to be fair. If it's just a performance thing, fine, I just was curious if there was anything else to it.


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> Any reason Saliba wasn't selected? Haven't followed him closely this season.



Depth.


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> So did Saliba, to be fair. If it's just a performance thing, fine, I just was curious if there was anything else to it.



I'm not sure if Ripoll has him tagged because of the famous tape in the lockeroom. 
Badiashile has been a fixture of Ligue 1's best D.
Upamecano is above him on the depth chart.
Fofana was lights out. 
Konate is the one that could be seen as worse than Saliba (I sure do).
Todibo is also a good name.
But those two played few games this year after basically starting their season in January.


----------



## Evilo

Meanwhile...


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> I'm not sure if Ripoll has him tagged because of the famous tape in the lockeroom.
> Badiashile has been a fixture of Ligue 1's best D.
> Upamecano is above him on the depth chart.
> Fofana was lights out.
> Konate is the one that could be seen as worse than Saliba (I sure do).
> Todibo is also a good name.
> But those two played few games this year after basically starting their season in January.



That makes sense and there wasn’t a name there that immediately jumped out as for sure behind Saliba, I was just curious.


----------



## Evilo

Kolo Muani will play the playoffs with Nantes and thus won't join the U21 team. Kalimuenso will replace him.
Fofana is injured and questionnable. If he doesn't go (big blow), Disasi will replace him (partnership with Badiashile I'm guessing).
Still we have Saliba and Todibo better than every CB on that team except Fofana (and that's debatable).


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Meanwhile...




Declaring for Tunisia


----------



## Evilo

Is it an info or speculation?
Not surprised given his family tradition if it's the case.
Too bad, he'll be stuck on a bad NT throughout his career, but then again, his career choices have been weird to say the least so far.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Is it an info or speculation?
> Not surprised given his family tradition if it's the case.
> Too bad, he'll be stuck on a bad NT throughout his career, but then again, his career choices have been weird to say the least so far.



Apparently it’s being marketed by Tunisia federation


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Evilo said:


> Is it an info or speculation?
> Not surprised given his family tradition if it's the case.
> Too bad, he'll be stuck on a bad NT throughout his career, but then again, his career choices have been weird to say the least so far.



I don't blame him.

Fekir also decided to play for France instead of Algeria. I am sure he is regretting that choice now.

I would like to see Tunisia become an African powerhouse like Morocco and Algeria.


----------



## Evilo

That's beyond stupid.
Fekir blew his knee with the NT.
Otherwise he'd still be starting. He lost his explosiveness.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Fekir's World Cup medal guarantees he feels no regrets


----------



## Evilo

PSG has signed big goalie prospect Lucas Lavallée (2003) from Lille.


----------



## Jussi

Mejbri confirmed he'll play for Tunisia.


----------



## gary69

Evilo said:


> PSG has signed big goalie prospect Lucas Lavallée (2003) from Lille.




Does he stay in Lille on loan? If Lille has no money to spend, he could get more playing time there?


----------



## Evilo

I have no idea. Lille has 2 of the brightest goalie prospects in France. Lavallée and Chevalier (both Lucas) so I guess they're all-in on Chevalier.


----------



## robertmac43

JeffreyLFC said:


> Morocco



I feel like there are some better teams out there to strive to become. Morocco has a good generation at the moment but it hasn't translated to too much success, qualifying for 2018 is really all they have to show for.


----------



## gary69

Any speculation on Kays Ruiz's next stop? He left PSG for free after refusing to sign a new contract. Played a handful of games for them, mostly as a sub, IIRC. Looked like a good passer with good technique, bit of a lightweight physically. 

Staying in France? Joining Thiago Motta at Lille?


----------



## Evilo

I don't think Ruiz refused to sign. IIRC, PSG were not a fan.
I like his passing and IQ, but he's anti-dynamic. Guy was made for the 80s. And as you said, he's very frail.
Still a team could use him somehow. As a 10 who doesn't do anything else but pass.


----------



## YNWA14

Evilo said:


> I have no idea. Lille has 2 of the brightest goalie prospects in France. Lavallée and Chevalier (both Lucas) so I guess they're all-in on Chevalier.


----------



## Savant

I’ve never seen him but apparently there is an Alvaro Recoba comp floating around.


----------



## Evilo

Highly touted prospect Ben Seghir has refused to sign an extension with Nice and is signing with OM.


----------



## Juve

Apparently this guy is joining on a free?


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Who needs Kane?


----------



## VEGASKING

To score against Andorra? Apparently not Ireland.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Doubt Troy Parrott pans out for Spurs. Dane Scarlett seems like a much better prospect.


----------



## Savant

Savant said:


> I’ve never seen him but apparently there is an Alvaro Recoba comp floating around.




So this looks like it is going through with LfC loaning him to Sporting CP to get a work permit


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Anybody knows about this Adam Hlozek guy? Read the other day that he has been on a tear in the Czech league


----------



## cgf

Well this should be interesting. We didn't send a particularly talented team, but Wirtz & Baku have dragged this veteran group along so far, why not one match further?


----------



## cgf

Well damn. Portugal definitely had more star talents, but that was a fully deserved win for our boys. Wirtz was the best player on the pitch. Baku set up Nmecha's goal beautifully; while being a constant presence charging into the spaces opened up by Wirtz drifting inside. Adeyemi showed his immense potential after coming off the bench, creating a couple of great chances to ice the match with a 2nd goal. Maier almost opened the scoring with a rocket in the first half while defending well throughout. But I'd have a hard time calling anyone the man of the match other than Dorsch, who was just dominant against the ball at the 6 & completely neutralized Portugals attacks for large stretches of the match. 

Not sure if anyone who started this match will be a factor for the NT outside of Wirtz & Baku, but those other kids really played a great tournament.


----------



## Jussi

spintheblackcircle said:


> Who needs Kane?





If he can dive like Kane, then I'm here for the dead parrot jokes.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

I'll just leave this here for @YNWA14 

He's going to represent the Dutch. So i dont see the issue.


----------



## robertmac43

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> He's going to represent the Dutch. So i dont see the issue.



You are obsessed with this guy at the moment lol


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

robertmac43 said:


> You are obsessed with this guy at the moment lol



Brobbey or @YNWA14 both seem accurate. 

I've seen only a handful of games for Brobbey. He was great every time. Who knows if he continues to progress though.


----------



## les Habs

robertmac43 said:


> You are obsessed with this guy at the moment lol


----------



## Savant

robertmac43 said:


> You are obsessed with this guy at the moment lol



Big Ryan Babel energy here


----------



## Savant




----------



## Power Man

I'm keeping an eye on Mohamed Amine El Amoura, 20 years old, forward playing for the current Algerian League leaders, Entente de Setif
Can ,winger, AM, create shots out of nowhere and make plays for his teammates

Fantastic talent, Belmadi called him during the previous international break but didn't play him, as even though those were friendly matches, the coach keeps the FIFA rankings in mind for the upcoming AFCON and WC group seedings if we qualify to said tournaments; Belmadi felt he wasn't ready yet to contribute, right now he needs players he can conot on right away
But he is playing with the NT youth team so that's ok


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich




----------



## robertmac43

This is an interesting signing for the CPL. The first instance of Atelti Ottawa using their link to Madrid for a loan signing. Should be good for league exposure;

Atlético Ottawa loans winger Rafael Núñez from Atlético Madrid for 2021 season


----------



## NyQuil

robertmac43 said:


> This is an interesting signing for the CPL. The first instance of Atelti Ottawa using their link to Madrid for a loan signing. Should be good for league exposure;
> 
> Atlético Ottawa loans winger Rafael Núñez from Atlético Madrid for 2021 season




Hey, that's my hometown team.



Rafael Nunez said:


> “I have never been to Canada, so I am excited to come to the capital and meet the fans. As a young player I am looking forward to getting some professional experience in Canada’s top league,” said Atlético Ottawa midfielder Rafael Núñez. “I can’t wait to play in front of the fans at TD Place.”


----------



## Savant




----------



## cgf

Since our defense has been such a topic of conversation at the Euros, I figured I'd talk about our biggest "hoffnungsträger" in defense. For this, I'm focusing on kids who haven't yet established themselves at the senior level, so I won't be discussing Uduokhai, Schlotterbeck, or Torunarigha...though his injuries have prevented him from fully establishing himself at the senior level.

And the best place to start is with the literally biggest of the lot; Armel Bella Kotchap ('01). The Paris-born Bella Kotchap has been starting for Bochum...44 BuLi2 matches under his belt already & he won't turn 20 until december...and was crucial to their securing 1st division football for next season. The absolutely massive kid has excellent mobility / quickness to go with his power / balance / length. Capable of making some truly great tackles / interceptions and a force in the air, the kid has also shown he can deliver some really high caliber passes...both long aerial balls and ones sprayed out to the wings along the pitch. This coming season will be a major test for the young Bella Kotchap, but if he passes it well, he should be poised for a big move next summer.

The next kid I wanna talk about is Bright Arrey-Mbi ('03). Like Musiala, Bayern snagged him from Chelsea's academy & he has played for an English youth NT before...8 matches with their u15s before switching to our u16s. Unlike the others I am discussing Arrey-Mbi has almost no senior team experience. With his only PT for Bayern's 1st team coming in the CL against Atletico Madrid; when Arrey-Mbi started at LWB in their group-stage 1-1 draw...other than that & 1 match with the u19s, his season was spent entirely with Bayern II in the 3rd division where he was an important starter. Not as big or powerful as Kotchap, Arrey-Mbi is quicker and seems to have genuinely special instincts/understanding of the game. He's probably my favorite to become our next Hummels.

Marton Dardai ('02) is probably the biggest name of the lot. Famous father, been on the scene for a long time, plays at a high visibility club, and has started breaking in at the senior level; with ~15 matches for Hertha to finish out the season. Dardai has sufficient size (1.88m) and good defensive instincts...but I wonder if he'll get pushed further forward at the senior level to make use of his skill on the ball. We'll see if he has the class of a Kimmich or Kroos if he does end up at the 6, but he's impressed me on the ball; both in those deeper areas as well as pushing forward. If he does stick in defense, those ball skills could be fantastic as LCB in a back 3.

The last teenager I wanted to bring up was Malick Thiaw ('01). The young Schalke defender is eligible for Finland and I'm not sure if he's more Kehrer or Klostermann, but he's another very interesting teen. Excellent mobility and some impressively timed challenges in the box for Schalke's senior team, have put him clearly in the picture for the NT if he continues developing well...getting a nomination to the u21 team despite the s***show around him. Schalke was such a mess that it's hard to assess his game, especially in build-up play, but he has certainly showed the flashes of an interesting defender.

Honorable mention: Lars Mai ('00), no longer a teenager Mai has become a regular starter in the 2nd division for Darmstadt and is one of the most elegant german defenders I have seen at the youth level. Not sure what the future holds for him, but his ability to read the game at a high level despite his age keeps me intrigued to watch him develop further. 

Other interesting kids include: Antonis Aidonis ('01), Arbnor Aliu ('03) & maybe Frederik Jäkel ('01)...though personally, I haven't been too impressed with Jäkel whenever I've seen him play for our youth NTs :-/


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Brobbey or @YNWA14 both seem accurate.
> 
> I've seen only a handful of games for Brobbey. He was great every time. Who knows if he continues to progress though.



If he does, he should be able to earn PT for Leipzig pretty quickly. We still have to see how much Marsch will play Forsberg, Olmo & Szoboszlai as false-nines, but Hwang is expected to be sold & who knows what happens with Sorloth.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I don’t know where he fits in, but I have high hopes for Nnamdi Collins. He’s being talked up the most after the end of last season into the summer of the players who has the best chance to play significant preseason minutes and then stick with the first team for next season.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I don’t know where he fits in, but I have high hopes for Nnamdi Collins. He’s being talked up the most after the end of last season into the summer of the players who has the best chance to play significant preseason minutes and then stick with the first team for next season.



That would be cool. He hasn't played for the U17s yet because of the pandemic, so I haven't seen any of him to add anything, but it never hurts to have more young talents doing well at our biggest problem spot.

Let's just hope these kids develop better than Süle, Tah & Torunarigha have.


----------



## Czechboy

Any young promising Czechs on the horizon?


----------



## Live in the Now

Czechboy said:


> Any young promising Czechs on the horizon?




Hlozek is the closest thing they'll have to a star in...forever. Karabec is supposed to be good too but I've only seen him play once against Celtic. He did pretty well for a 17 year old.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

First career start and first career goal. This guy is a class player. He’ll be in Europe at a big club within a few years.


----------



## Live in the Now

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> First career start and first career goal. This guy is a class player. He’ll be in Europe at a big club within a few years.
> https://mobile.twitter.com/brfootball/status/1408951011415363586





Gianluca Busio too. Read that Sassuolo made an offer for him now though.


----------



## WeThreeKings

With the terrible performance of the front two for the Netherlands - do we have anything coming up in the pipeline to rectify this? Or is everything at mid field and the back line?


----------



## cgf

WeThreeKings said:


> With the terrible performance of the front two for the Netherlands - do we have anything coming up in the pipeline to rectify this? Or is everything at mid field and the back line?



I'm no expert on dutch youth so I'll just @ some of our dutch fans for you...but unless your young forward talents have stagnated over the past year or two, yes you do. 

Brobbey & Malen are the two names I'm remembering, but hopefully you can get more thorough answers from: @Ajacied @YNWA14


----------



## WeThreeKings

cgf said:


> I'm no expert on dutch youth so I'll just @ some of our dutch fans for you...but unless your young forward talents have stagnated over the past year or two, yes you do.
> 
> Brobbey & Malen are the two names I'm remembering, but hopefully you can get more thorough answers from: @Ajacied @YNWA14




Thanks.. Malen was in the line-up and unfortunately had one of the worst plays on a 1v1 with the goal keeper i've seen at a critical moment. Hoping for more quality than that.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> I'm no expert on dutch youth so I'll just @ some of our dutch fans for you...but unless your young forward talents have stagnated over the past year or two, yes you do.
> 
> Brobbey & Malen are the two names I'm remembering, but hopefully you can get more thorough answers from: @Ajacied @YNWA14



Wasn't Stengs supposed to be elite or getting there...


----------



## cgf

WeThreeKings said:


> Thanks.. Malen was in the line-up and unfortunately had one of the worst plays on a 1v1 with the goal keeper i've seen at a critical moment. Hoping for more quality than that.



Yeah, Malen's finishing in the final third at this level isn't as impressive as it was at youth levels. But he wouldn't be the only striker with some ugly misses in his early-20s who went on to be excellent.

Brobbey seems more clinical, but again...I'm just going off of what I remember from recent U19 & U21 euros, our dutch posters should have a lot more for you.


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Wasn't Stengs supposed to be elite or getting there...




That sounds right, but I honestly do not remember. I used to pay more attention to other nations' youth but nowadays it's just the german youth teams that I watch...I barely even watch the u19 or u17 BuLi anymore.


----------



## les Habs

I think it's a bit early to write off Malen all things considered. He's done well at club for two seasons now. People make too much of the NT performances relative to those at club level. Hence some of the crazy post NT tournament signings over the years.


----------



## Eye of Ra

Anthony Elanga - elite potential?


----------



## Savant

Harvey Elliott signs new long-term Liverpool contract


----------



## Eye of Ra

I dont see him playing much for Liverpool this season. Should be loaned out again. Maybe to a team like Norwich, Brentford etc.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Eye of Ra said:


> I dont see him playing much for Liverpool this season. Should be loaned out again. Maybe to a team like Norwich, Brentford etc.



Contraire. As of today with this contract he leap frogged Shaq and Origi on the depth chart. Unless LFC sign another forward, I expect him to have a similar impact as Curtis Jones last year. Start some CL games, All cup games and some EPL games (most likely during AFCON with Mane and Salah gone).

Klopp has never been a fan of loan for young players. He prefers to have them train with the first team and see their development first hand.


----------



## Savant

Eye of Ra said:


> I dont see him playing much for Liverpool this season. Should be loaned out again. Maybe to a team like Norwich, Brentford etc.



There will be Minutes for him. I’m not trying to loan him out to a team that’s going to be fighting relegation. Would rather he trains with the first team every week. Worked for Foden.


----------



## cgf

Savant said:


> There will be Minutes for him. I’m not trying to loan him out to a team that’s going to be fighting relegation. *Would rather he trains with the first team every week.* Worked for Foden.




I feel like this is something that is often really under-appreciated; especially for kids at clubs with excellent coaching staffs. 

Playing a lot can be great, and at some point, every prospect needs to start working on the things they've learned in real game action; but kids can gain so much more from training with a great team than seems to be commonly believed.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

cgf said:


> I feel like this is something that is often really under-appreciated; especially for kids at clubs with excellent coaching staffs.
> 
> Playing a lot can be great, and at some point, every prospect needs to start working on the things they've learned in real game action; but kids can gain so much more from training with a great team than seems to be commonly believed.




It's hard to tell which approach will be right for a player. Mason Mount, for instance, definitely benefited from getting a lot of first team action at Vitesse and Derby, and I don't think he'd be the player he is now if he'd spent those years training with the first team instead. Foden, conversely, grew a lot from training with Guardiola. 

I do think that Liverpool should hang on to Harvey Elliott this year though. He is already good enough to be a rotational option for them. I also don't really understand why they're so obsessed with getting rid of Harry Wilson, given that he's already on their books and probably a better option than Shaqiri/Origi.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> why they're so obsessed with getting rid of Harry Wilson, given that he's already on their books and probably a better option than Shaqiri/Origi.



I would not say obsessed but it is obvious Harry Wilson cannot function under Klopp (not great in possession, passing average and not fast enough). He is a different type of player that can thrive on certain teams mostly bottom/mid table clubs. Also, they probably lost value from last year and he will continue to lose more (contract running out eventually) if he is not sold this summer. That being said Origi nor Shaqiri are in the plan either. I am guessing that whatever sum of money they can get from the sales of Origi, Shaq and Wilson will be invested on a new forward.


----------



## Savant




----------



## SJSharks72

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> It's hard to tell which approach will be right for a player. Mason Mount, for instance, definitely benefited from getting a lot of first team action at Vitesse and Derby, and I don't think he'd be the player he is now if he'd spent those years training with the first team instead. Foden, conversely, grew a lot from training with Guardiola.
> 
> I do think that Liverpool should hang on to Harvey Elliott this year though. He is already good enough to be a rotational option for them. I also don't really understand why they're so obsessed with getting rid of Harry Wilson, given that he's already on their books and probably a better option than Shaqiri/Origi.



You also have to consider the coaching staff. Pep is largely considered one of the best (if not the best) managers in football today. Klopp as well. Having young guys spend time with them is a lot different that having them spend time with say Ole and getting no game time is a bit different in terms of development than the other two managers.


----------



## cgf

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> It's hard to tell which approach will be right for a player. Mason Mount, for instance, definitely benefited from getting a lot of first team action at Vitesse and Derby, and I don't think he'd be the player he is now if he'd spent those years training with the first team instead. Foden, conversely, grew a lot from training with Guardiola.
> 
> I do think that Liverpool should hang on to Harvey Elliott this year though. He is already good enough to be a rotational option for them. I also don't really understand why they're so obsessed with getting rid of Harry Wilson, given that he's already on their books and probably a better option than Shaqiri/Origi.




Yeah, no approach is perfect for every player. Even if we could prove that one was objectively better for the average player, nobody is perfectly average & we'd still have plenty of kids who were best off following the opposite path.

Maybe dealing with my fellow Knicks fans all year has me a little touchy wrt to the "have to play to get better" fallacy


----------



## cgf

*German FBs/WBs:*
The only place to start is with Wolfsburg’s Ridle Baku (’98). Having lead the U21s to the european crown with Florian Wirtz, the converted midfielder is powerfully built & a really dynamic attacker whose defensive improvement has been rapid at the new position. With FC VW in the CL this year, he has a real chance to impress given how much they rely on their wide players to create anything. He should be with the NT already and I hope Flick can empower him to create for our NT the way he did Davies to create for Bayern.

The biggest name of this group, Luca Netz (’03) has been identified as one of the top talents in his age group for a while now and this season, started breaking in at the senior level; with 11 BuLi appearances and his first goal. With Hertha rebooting around their young talent this season, Netz should get even more chance to show off his skill & elegance, as he takes further steps towards that “next Lahm” label that everyone started throwing his way. The WM seems at least a cycle too soon for him, but if Gosens starts to slow down after Qatar, hopefully, Luca will be ready to replace him.

The last kid I want to mention with this top group that I see real star potential in…aka w/ realistic-ceilings that are higher than Gosens’ current level…is Hoffenheim’s Marco John (’02). He hasn’t been in the spotlight for as long as Netz or at as high of a level as Baku, but he looked really dynamic in his almost 1000 minutes of 1st division football last season. Like Baumgartner, John was an attacking midfielder at the youth level, but like his austrian team-mate he took to playing LWB like a fish to water when Hoeneß put him there after the winter break.


In the next tier are kids who have shown the potential to become options for the NT, but who I’m not as high on as that first trio. First in that group I am going to mention Monaco’s new signing, Ismail Jakobs ('99). A winger by training, Jakobs started transitioning to WB this season — with about half of his appearances coming there — and looked very interesting at that spot. Hopefully Kovac continues to develop the U21 European champion & olympian in that role.

Next is his Köln team-mate Noah Katterbach ('01); whom some have right behind Netz. I don’t think the two time Fritz-Walter medal winner is skilled or explosive enough to be the threat that Baku/Netz/John are with the ball…but he has certainly shown some impressive potential in his almost 40 BuLi matches over the past two seasons and is much more of a traditional-/twoway-FB in the Lahm mold, than anyone else I’ve mentioned.

Jean Manuel Mbom (’00) is a kid I was super high on as an 8 at the u17 & u19 levels, but after missing a ton of time due to injuries the past couple of years, I had started to worry he had lost too much development time. And though he’s unlikely to make good on the potential he once showed (by surpassing Gundogan as a midfielder), he really put himself back on the map last year; looking really good for Werder as a wingback…as he split his 24 matches ~50/50 between WB & CM. Mobile, skilled & creative, the tools are there for a very interesting FB/WB if he has finally put his injuries behind him.

HMs:
Roberto Massimo (’00), David Raum (’98), Josha Vagnoman (’00); Kaan Kurt (’01), Kerim Calhanoglu (’02), and Mehmet Aydin (’02).


----------



## les Habs

cgf said:


> *German FBs/WBs:*
> The only place to start is with Wolfsburg’s Ridle Baku (’98). Having lead the U21s to the european crown with Florian Wirtz, the converted midfielder is powerfully built & a really dynamic attacker whose defensive improvement has been rapid at the new position. With FC VW in the CL this year, he has a real chance to impress given how much they rely on their wide players to create anything. He should be with the NT already and I hope Flick can empower him to create for our NT the way he did Davies to create for Bayern.
> 
> The biggest name of this group, Luca Netz (’03) has been identified as one of the top talents in his age group for a while now and this season, started breaking in at the senior level; with 11 BuLi appearances and his first goal. With Hertha rebooting around their young talent this season, Netz should get even more chance to show off his skill & elegance, as he takes further steps towards that “next Lahm” label that everyone started throwing his way. The WM seems at least a cycle too soon for him, but if Gosens starts to slow down after Qatar, hopefully, Luca will be ready to replace him.
> 
> The last kid I want to mention with this top group that I see real star potential in…aka w/ realistic-ceilings that are higher than Gosens’ current level…is Hoffenheim’s Marco John (’02). He hasn’t been in the spotlight for as long as Netz or at as high of a level as Baku, but he looked really dynamic in his almost 1000 minutes of 1st division football last season. Like Baumgartner, John was an attacking midfielder at the youth level, but like his austrian team-mate he took to playing LWB like a fish to water when Hoeneß put him there after the winter break.
> 
> 
> In the next tier are kids who have shown the potential to become options for the NT, but who I’m not as high on as that first trio. First in that group I am going to mention Monaco’s new signing, Ismail Jakobs ('99). A winger by training, Jakobs started transitioning to WB this season — with about half of his appearances coming there — and looked very interesting at that spot. Hopefully Kovac continues to develop the U21 European champion & olympian in that role.
> 
> Next is his Köln team-mate Noah Katterbach ('01); whom some have right behind Netz. I don’t think the two time Fritz-Walter medal winner is skilled or explosive enough to be the threat that Baku/Netz/John are with the ball…but he has certainly shown some impressive potential in his almost 40 BuLi matches over the past two seasons and is much more of a traditional-/twoway-FB in the Lahm mold, than anyone else I’ve mentioned.
> 
> Jean Manuel Mbom (’00) is a kid I was super high on as an 8 at the u17 & u19 levels, but after missing a ton of time due to injuries the past couple of years, I had started to worry he had lost too much development time. And though he’s unlikely to make good on the potential he once showed (by surpassing Gundogan as a midfielder), he really put himself back on the map last year; looking really good for Werder as a wingback…as he split his 24 matches ~50/50 between WB & CM. Mobile, skilled & creative, the tools are there for a very interesting FB/WB if he has finally put his injuries behind him.
> 
> HMs:
> Roberto Massimo (’00), David Raum (’98), Josha Vagnoman (’00); Kaan Kurt (’01), Kerim Calhanoglu (’02), and Mehmet Aydin (’02).




I drafted Netz a year ago in our defunct keeper league


----------



## cgf

les Habs said:


> I drafted Netz a year ago in our defunct keeper league




Good man.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Dortmund fans that watch the youth teams are excited about Lion Semic. He’s dealt with some injuries that is probably the reason he isn’t yet moving up to the first team, but they say he could play for the first team at RB in a season or two.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Dortmund fans that watch the youth teams are excited about Lion Semic. He’s dealt with some injuries that is probably the reason he isn’t yet moving up to the first team, but they say he could play for the first team at RB in a season or two.




Like Collins, I have yet to see him play, but he's on my list of kids to check out once he gets to the U19 NT...or your first team.

Another RB/RWB would certainly not go amiss for us, as...despite how awesome Baku is...the depth on the right (Massimo / Mbom / Kurt / Aydin / etc.) is much weaker than the depth on the left (Netz / John / Katterbach / Jakobs / Calhanoglu / etc.). 

Especially since Mbom saw time on both flanks when Werder used him in the wide areas and I'm counting him as a RB because the depth there is so much worse...though I'm a Kaan Kurt fan & liked some of the flashes I saw from Aydin last season.


Baku hitting has really taken the sting off of what a disappointment Henrichs has been.


----------



## bluesfan94

Not sure where to put this exactly but I think a nice hire for STL City SC. 



@cgf know anything about him/how have the clubs mentioned done with youth?


----------



## cgf

bluesfan94 said:


> Not sure where to put this exactly but I think a nice hire for STL City SC.
> 
> 
> 
> @cgf know anything about him/how have the clubs mentioned done with youth?





Not specifically but looking his history up on TM, there's cause for optimism. Stuttgart, where he got his start, has had a good academy since Das Reboot...and over the past 3 years he's been in charge of development, they have done a good job with many of their young talents.


----------



## bluesfan94

cgf said:


> Not specifically but looking his history up on TM, there's cause for optimism. Stuttgart, where he got his start, has had a good academy since Das Reboot...and over the past 3 years he's been in charge of development, they have done a good job with many of their young talents.



Yeah I figured asking for specifics was probably asking way too much, but definitely good to hear. St. Louis has the potential to churn out talent if we can get a good academy set up. Even without one, really (we have Scott Gallagher but that has its own issues) we're put out a handful of national team players recently (Ream, Sargent, Davis, Will Bruin, Becky Sauerbrunn)


----------



## YNWA14

les Habs said:


> I drafted Netz a year ago in our defunct keeper league



After I mentioned him among others in the prospect thread.


----------



## YNWA14

les Habs said:


> I think it's a bit early to write off Malen all things considered. He's done well at club for two seasons now. People make too much of the NT performances relative to those at club level. Hence some of the crazy post NT tournament signings over the years.



100%; he also looked pretty good for the Netherlands...missing one chance doesn't make him a bad player.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

YNWA14 said:


> After I mentioned him among others in the prospect thread.



Just because you typed a prospects name on this board first doesn't mean that someone else here didn't know about said prospect before. Just saying.


----------



## les Habs

YNWA14 said:


> After I mentioned him among others in the prospect thread.




I knew of him and others though. You potentially forecasting intentions isn't my fault.  A lot of the younger players I took are coming off of good seasons.


----------



## YNWA14

Creed Bratton said:


> Just because you typed a prospects name on this board first doesn't mean that someone else here didn't know about said prospect before. Just saying.



Impossible.


----------



## YNWA14

les Habs said:


> I knew of him and others though. You potentially forecasting intentions isn't my fault.  A lot of the younger players I took are coming off of good seasons.



Pfffff it was pretty suspect timing. Only one person who went and picked up some of those guys had the honour to give me credit! :p


----------



## JeffreyLFC

I remember LFC fans getting excited with the 19 years old Origi during the 2014 world cup...


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

16 year old Valentin Barco could make his debut for Boca today. Pretty hyped.


----------



## les Habs

YNWA14 said:


> Pfffff it was pretty suspect timing. Only one person who went and picked up some of those guys had the honour to give me credit! :p




Pffff indeed. Like I said, look at the team I put together and the guys I drafted and it's not my fault you spilled the beans. If anything it was guys like Gravenberch or Unuvar who I figured I had to snipe. That's on top of my take on Netz which is the jury is still well out. If anything, though I'd have to see the draft again and see when the guy got picked, I'd probably have gone with someone else over him.


----------



## Savant

This is a guy y’all might want to file away for the next 2-3 years


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

He started played 82 minutes. Game ended 1-1. Apparently he did well


----------



## Eye of Ra

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> He started played 82 minutes. Game ended 1-1. Apparently he did well





is that dejan kulusevski


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Eye of Ra said:


> is that dejan kulusevski



Lol some similarities


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon




----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


>





Really like the weight on his passes there, looks almost like a german midfielder


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> Really like the weight on his passes there, looks almost like a german midfielder



Mateo Kilmowicz?


----------



## les Habs

Cross post from the La Liga thread. Curious to see how this goes. I knew we were linked with him in the last year, but I was somewhat surprised when we signed him as I expected him to go elsewhere.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

He didn't turn 17 until March, so he achieved most of this when he was just 16.


----------



## Savant




----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

16 year old Reed Baker-Whiting has been getting some minutes for Seattle Sounders in MLS. He played 90 minutes earlier this week. Most players his age can not compete physically in MLS, but this guy plays with the physicality of a 10 year veteran. He's the type of player that'll have 100 games before he turns 20 years old. Coaches will love this guy because he's a consistent and hard working midfielder. He reminds me of Jordan Henderson. I'm pretty sure he'll be transferred to Europe within a few years.


----------



## robertmac43

Moran is quickly proving to be one of our best academy players. I have no doubt he will get a chance with the first team this season;


----------



## East Coast Bias

robertmac43 said:


> Moran is quickly proving to be one of our best academy players. I have no doubt he will get a chance with the first team this season;





Brighton gonna bring Ireland back. 3/4 players in the squad now.


----------



## bluesfan94

robertmac43 said:


> Moran is quickly proving to be one of our best academy players. I have no doubt he will get a chance with the first team this season;


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> 16 year old Reed Baker-Whiting has been getting some minutes for Seattle Sounders in MLS. He played 90 minutes earlier this week. Most players his age can not compete physically in MLS, but this guy plays with the physicality of a 10 year veteran. He's the type of player that'll have 100 games before he turns 20 years old. Coaches will love this guy because he's a consistent and hard working midfielder. He reminds me of Jordan Henderson. I'm pretty sure he'll be transferred to Europe within a few years.



Seattle has played lots of young players this season already. There’s Abdoulaye Cissoko (21 CB but probably won’t transfer to Europe), Daniel Leyva (18 CM and someone who I think will transfer sooner rather than later to Europe), Josh Atencio and Ethan Dobbelare (could see both heading to Europe but not any of the top 5 leagues). They also loaned Alphonso Ocampo-Chavez and Sota Kitahara to an Austrian team.


----------



## les Habs

Happy to have such a talent, and only 16 too. Very upset to have such a dumb manager.



Very curious to see what sort of minutes he gets this season.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

An overview of the talents in Dortmund's academy. Not including players that have played before for the first team (Reyna, Moukoko, Knauff). I also won't mention the two PSG signings (Coulibaly and Kamara), although they might play a few games within the academy before debuting for the first team

2001's: Luca Unbehaun (GK)

Unbehaun is our most advanced young GK. He's comparable to a ter-Stegen. Great with his feet, very good shot stopper, and leader in the net, but not one of the taller GK's. He was supposed to be the #3 for the first team this season, but there have been some slight rumors that he's not rated as a potential first team goalkeeper anymore. He may have to leave the club eventually, but he's extremely highly rated among young German GK's.

2002's: Kamal Bafounta (CM)

This guy came into our academy with a lot of hype, but he's dealt with some pretty terrible injury problems. He's barely played any football the last few seasons. He missed about two full seasons, and only was getting back up to full fitness midway through last season when there weren't any official U19 games to play, so he ended up going about two and a half seasons without games. He hasn't been given a first team contract and will start with the second team, which shows that the hype has slowed, but he was compared to Pogba and very highly rated when he joined our academy. Talent was not the issue. He's now fit, so maybe he can make an impact.

2003's: Lion Semic (RB), Goektan Guerpuez (CM), Dennis Luetke-Frie (CM), Bradley Fink (CF)

Semic is a very talented attacking RB, but he's also dealt with some injury problems. There are still high hopes that he'll make it through to the first team, but he probably needs another season in the academy before that to get bigger and stronger, and improve his defense. Guerpez is compared to Dahoud or Gundogan as a smooth central midfielder who connects the game, adds in on the offense, and can also play some defense. Luetke-Frie is the forgotten man in the academy. He's the captain of the U19's, ultra versatile on where he can play, he's a jack of all trades master of none type of player. He may not have the top-end potential to play for the first team, but he should still be a Bundesliga player. Fink is a physical CF with a long history of scoring goals, but he needs service and he's not much more than a box striker.

2004's: Nnamdi Collins (CB), Jamie Bynoe-Gittens (W), Faroukou Cisse (CB), Marian Kirsch (GK), Tom Rothe (LB), Noah Mrosek (RB), Vasco Walz (CM), Samuel Bamba (W)

Collins is probably the biggest name in our academy now that Moukoko is with the first team. Collins should be with the first team soon. He's a big CB with excellent speed and defensive ability. He's a leader at the back, and can break lines with his passing. Bynoe-Gittens is supposed to be the eventual Sancho replacement. He's dealt with a few too many injuries the last year, but when he plays he shows his incredible chance creation ability as a 1v1 isolation winger. Cisse is a little unheralded as a CB in the same age group as Collins. I don't know as much about him, but he's supposed to be pretty athletic. It's similar for Bamba in relation to Bynoe-Gittens. Bamba is more unheralded because there's an elite talent at his position in the same age group. There are some Dortmund fans that think Bamba may be even better than Bynoe-Gittens as an athletic winger who goes towards goal.

I don't know that much yet about Kirsch and Rothe, but they were two new big signings from within Germany. Mrosek is another player I don't have much info on yet, but he's supposed to be pretty good. Walz is a smaller CM who plays bigger than his size. He recently got a first team contract.

2005's: Julian Rijkhoff (CF), Julian Pauli (CB)
2006's: Raul Koenig (CF), Yannick Numbisie (RB)

I know a lot less about these younger age groups. Rijkhoff was the big signing from abroad. Signed from Ajax. He's supposed to be a great goalscorer with technique, size, and soccer IQ. He's the farthest along of the younger academy players. He's the only 2005 playing with the U19's this season. Julian Pauli is a player I don't know much about, but he was a big signing last season. Konig was the only 2006 that was playing with the U17's last season, and recently Numbisie has been talked about as a player to watch for.


----------



## Ajacied

Ajax’ highly touted striker prospect Noah Gesser, 16, who was on the radar of Europe’s elite passed away last night in a car crash alongside his brother.


----------



## Eye of Ra

Ajacied said:


> Ajax’ highly touted striker prospect Noah Gesser, 16, who was on the radar of Europe’s elite passed away last night in a car crash alongside his brother.




first nouri and now this.


----------



## les Habs

Also scored a goal in the friendly against Stuttgart.


----------



## cgf

les Habs said:


> Also scored a goal in the friendly against Stuttgart.





Yeah, Gladbach had been tracking him for a long time & I was hoping he'd need a step before going to one of the giants...but then a) he grew too much too fast over the past year, and b) covid happened, causing the traditional giants to shop from the lower shelves themselves.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Great news! Should feature in some cup or conference league games.


----------



## Eye of Ra

What happend with Karamoko Dembele? You never hear much about him these days.


----------



## bluesfan94

Eye of Ra said:


> What happend with Karamoko Dembele? You never hear much about him these days.



He's 18, plays for Celtic, and is currently injured. You're not gonna hear much about him right now


----------



## Eye of Ra

Fitz-Jim have been great for Ajax during pre-season. Yet another talent that Ajax produces.


----------



## Savant

Don’t know much about him but all reports are that he is one of England’s top 16 year olds. If he is close to Kaide Gordon’s level that’s a hell of a player


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Savant said:


> Don’t know much about him but all reports are that he is one of England’s top 16 year olds. If he is close to Kaide Gordon’s level that’s a hell of a player




Kaide Gordon is the name to remember for the future


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bobby Clark sounds like the name of a player that in 75 years people will be talking about as an old time English legend. 

I have no clue if he’s any good.


----------



## bluesfan94

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Bobby Clark sounds like the name of a player that in 75 years people will be talking about as an old time English legend.
> 
> I have no clue if he’s any good.



Nah, it would be Bobby Clarke then.


----------



## cgf

Just to finish this up before the season starts; I'll add blurbs later

*
Strikers*
Youssoufa Moukoko (’04)
————————
Karim Adeyemi (’02)
Maximilian Beier (’02)
————————
*Malik Tillman* (’02)
Lukas Nmecha (’98)
Florian Krüger (’99)
Nick Woltemade (’02)
Emrehan Gedikli (’03)
*Fiete Arp* (’00)

Moukoko is the top talent, but Adeyemi & Beier are really exciting too. Nmecha has become a good young forward in the mold of a young Volland. I like Krüger a lot too, not sure just what his ceiling is, but he's interesting even if he never becomes senior NT caliber. Of the tier 3 teenagers, Tillman is the most interesting to me if he didn't miss too much time to injuries; good mobility, good size, and very good creativity.

*Attackers*
Florian Wirtz (’03)
Jamal Musiala (’03)
————————
Lazar Samardzic (’02)
Jan Thielmann (’02)
Jonathan Burkardt (’00)
Paul Nebel (’02)
Mateo Klimowicz (’00)
Ansgar Knauf (’02)
————————
Mika Schroers (’02)
Armindo Sieb (’03)
Turan Calhanoglu (’03)
Lucas Copado (’04)

Organized these groups a little differently, tier 2 v tier 3 is more about readiness/closeness-to-breaking-through, than talent...like I did the others. Wirtz & Musiala are in a tier of their own, but there is senior team potential throughout the other two groups...Samardzic, Nebel, Schroers, & Burkardt, in particular I like.

*Midfielder*
Sidney Raebiger (’05)
Torben Rhein (’03)
————————
Jordan Meyer (’02)
Angelo Stiller (’01)
Tom Bischof ('05)
Rocco Reitz (’02)
Can Bozdogan (’01)
Dennis Geiger ('98)
————————
Tom Krauß (’01)
Anton Stach ('98)
Arne Maier ('99)

Raebiger & Rhein bring a lot of young Kimmich to the table; excellent passers, confident on the ball under pressure, surprisingly combative...seeing how they'll develop will be very interesting. Jordan Meyer has a few Fritz Walter medals and is getting closer to cracking Stuttgart's rotation. Stiller is a really good talent, and should see regular PT after having left Bayern for Hoffenheim. Rocco Reitz got some cameos for Gladbach and looked very interesting, kid certainly has some Mo to the way he can weasel his way up the pitch. 

Can Bozdogan is still playing a creative midfield role for Schalke, but I see him as more of an 8 than a 10 when all is said & done. From the more experienced guys, I still like Geiger a lot and Stach really impressed me at the olympics, want to see more of him now that he's at Mainz...though Maier has been disappointing at the senior level so far, still very talented with good size & strength, but he's just too peripheral too often. I have yet to see Bischof myself, but there is speculation about whether he will crack Hoffenheim's rotation this season.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich




----------



## John Pedro

Vanderson, 20y old right back from Gremio.

This kid is special. Looks like a blend between Marcelo and Dani Alves. Good size (1,80cm), great pace, dribbling skills and a crazy good shoot, good free kick taker, the complete package


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

I think Pedro meant to post Barco from boca videos.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I think Pedro meant to post Barco from boca videos.




you know they'll end up selling him to a MLS club like the other Barco and Almada lol


----------



## cgf

Barco is a weirdass way of spelling Baku.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> you know they'll end up selling him to a MLS club like the other Barco and Almada lol


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> Barco is a weirdass way of spelling Baku.



The R is silent


----------



## gary69

John Pedro said:


> Vanderson, 20y old right back from Gremio.
> 
> This kid is special. Looks like a blend between Marcelo and Dani Alves. Good size (1,80cm), great pace, dribbling skills and a crazy good shoot, good free kick taker, the complete package





Nice ones, how is his defending or is he more of a wing back?


----------



## John Pedro

gary69 said:


> Nice ones, how is his defending or is he more of a wing back?




He's incredible going foward and adequate defensively. For example, he's better defensively than, say, Renan Lodi was when he left for Atleti. Not great, but good for what he brinks offensively. He also a very willing guy, doesn't take it for granted, gives a good effort on both sides. Any time I catch a game of him I go away impressed, haven't watched a fullback that talented down here in quite a time

edit:


----------



## Savant

looks like more Blackburn games for me this season


----------



## YNWA14

John Pedro said:


> He's incredible going foward and adequate defensively. For example, he's better defensively than, say, Renan Lodi was when he left for Atleti. Not great, but good for what he brinks offensively. He also a very willing guy, doesn't take it for granted, gives a good effort on both sides. Any time I catch a game of him I go away impressed, haven't watched a fullback that talented down here in quite a time
> 
> edit:




John Pedro is the best poster on this site nobody can tell me differently.


----------



## John Pedro

YNWA14 said:


> John Pedro is the best poster on this site nobody can tell me differently.




hahah no way but thanks

I'm so far behind guys like you, cgf, D2M, evilo, pavel buchnevich and all others that post here regularly


----------



## luiginb

Any idea why Mexican u-18 teams play with these numbers on their backs?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

luiginb said:


> View attachment 461564
> 
> Any idea why Mexican u-18 teams play with these numbers on their backs?




I’ve read it’s because it makes these players have to earn a first team number. They start with triple digit numbers, and the closer they get to the first team their number starts getting a lot closer to the normal numbers we usually see.

It makes some sense. Why should some U18 guy that has accomplished nothing in football have the same number at the same club as Messi? It seems out of proportion to put them on a level playing field with the number they get to wear.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon




----------



## John Pedro

Seems like Morato has become a regular starter for Benfica. 20y old.

One of the most talented CBs I've watched play for Sao Paulo under sides alongside Eder Militão. Very calm and talented on the ball, great on the air and nice pace for a CB.

Brazil has a nice new wave of CBs coming with Morato, Renan (19, Palmeiras) and Kaiky (17, Santos). Huge potentials and getting starter minutes already.


----------



## cgf

Extremely impressive BuLi1 debut for Armel Bella Kotchap. Kid was a force in the back for Bochum...like he had been all of last season in BuLi2...and I just love how he wasn't happy with himself after playing it safe with a late clearance & conceding a corner. Really gives the vibe that he won't be content unless he becomes genuinely great; which would be huge for us after the way Süle, Tah & Kehrer stagnated at this level.

The WM will be too soon for him, but if he keeps this up, he'll be starting for us by the 2024 cycle.


----------



## Savant

Debut assist for Leighton Clarkson


----------



## Savant




----------



## JeffreyLFC

Savant said:


>




Both. Great ability for a CB to dribble and move his way like that to the opposite box but also... you are the CB you don't take stupid risk like that. That's u18 stuff, he should learn.


----------



## Savant

JeffreyLFC said:


> Both. Great ability for a CB to dribble and move his way like that to the opposite box but also... you are the CB you don't take stupid risk like that. That's u18 stuff, he should learn.



Young Matip right there. You don’t want to see that in a senior game but good to know he has that kind of control in his locker


----------



## Evilo

More like pass the ball for the goal. Don't play to be the hero.


----------



## cgf

That's a good play if the team has been coached to rotate & cover for forward impulses like that...at least until he gets to the final third. 

If that's just a kid going hero-mode with nobody covering for him, that's reckless & will get taken advantage of at higher levels.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Would be good in a back three I'd say.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

That stuff happens more often than expected at those younger levels. And I’ve seen that before from some of the best CB’s in the world. They don’t do it often, but if you are going to allow it, they are going to keep dribbling.

That play in isolation I only view as a positive for that kid knowing nothing about him. Impressive close control and comfort on the ball for a CB in areas that CB’s are not often in. That shows he’s probably really good in those areas of the game for the parts of the pitch that CB’s have a lot of touches on the ball. The lack of finishing there is mostly irrelevant because CB’s almost never find themselves in a situation like that.


----------



## Evilo

The lack of finish is the only problem in that video.
Guy was great but he had an easy pass for a tapin but preferred to play by himself for a low percentage shot.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> That stuff happens more often than expected at those younger levels. And I’ve seen that before from some of the best CB’s in the world. They don’t do it often, but if you are going to allow it, they are going to keep dribbling.
> 
> That play in isolation I only view as a positive for that kid knowing nothing about him. Impressive close control and comfort on the ball for a CB in areas that CB’s are not often in. That shows he’s probably really good in those areas of the game for the parts of the pitch that CB’s have a lot of touches on the ball. The lack of finishing there is mostly irrelevant because CB’s almost never find themselves in a situation like that.




I think we need to better define the question to have a more in depth conversation. There's a difference between whether something is a good footballing play and a good developmental play, and there are plenty of things that aren't good football plays that I want developing kids to be learning from doing.

In this case, I think it's both exactly what you want a CB prospect doing when teams give them space to dribble at the youth level, and a good footballing move...until the final third, as Evilo has pointed out...at least as long as the team has a capable coach teaching them to rotate properly & cover for one another.


----------



## John Pedro

This kid is incredible, I'd like to see him at Porto/Benfica next. Uruguay can't help but produce strikers


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

How about Ajax -> Liverpool and then Barca?


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> How about Ajax -> Liverpool and then Barca?




Chiellini will need to be careful if they face each other at the World Cup.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

John Pedro said:


> This kid is incredible, I'd like to see him at Porto/Benfica next. Uruguay can't help but produce strikers




FM legend.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

20 year old Markanday will be with the senior club soon.


----------



## Savant

Kaide Gordon doing work


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Savant said:


> Kaide Gordon doing work




Forget Shaq we already have the cover for him


----------



## JimboA

I posted about Roony Bardghji (‘05) here last year and after watching a full match of him vs Switzerland today, that just strengthened my opinion on him. It felt like something was gonna happen every time he received the ball. Won the game for Sweden with a free kick in 90+5.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

looks like martinez 2.0


----------



## Eye of Ra

JimboA said:


> I posted about Roony Bardghji (‘05) here last year and after watching a full match of him vs Switzerland today, that just strengthened my opinion on him. It felt like something was gonna happen every time he received the ball. Won the game for Sweden with a free kick in 90+5.





he is a malmö guy. we should never had let him go.

anyways lots of swedes with immigrant background have chosen to play for their parents country these last years. hopefully roony chooses sweden in the future


----------



## JimboA

Eye of Ra said:


> he is a malmö guy. we should never had let him go.
> 
> anyways lots of swedes with immigrant background have chosen to play for their parents country these last years. hopefully roony chooses sweden in the future



Yes, Malmö have some young talents the last two years or so unfortunately. FCK seems like a good place for him though so I can see why he wanted to go there. 

Regarding the national team, he is eligible to play for Syria but I see it being unlikely he would choose that over Sweden.


----------



## bluesfan94

JimboA said:


> I posted about Roony Bardghji (‘05) here last year and after watching a full match of him vs Switzerland today, that just strengthened my opinion on him. It felt like something was gonna happen every time he received the ball. Won the game for Sweden with a free kick in 90+5.




‘05 good lord.


----------



## cgf

bluesfan94 said:


> ‘05 good lord.



'05er and still playing for the U19s? Somebody's lagging behind his peers


----------



## cgf

Bummed I missed this one, not only did Moukoko shine in his debut, but Kuntz played my beloved 4-3-1-2-0 with Appelkamp drifting around in between Moukoko & Burkardt upfront and the Becker-Stiller-Krauß midfield trio.

With Katterbach & Massimo at the FB spots, and Mantl in goal, the only change I'd have made was starting Bella Kotchap, but even he came on for the 2nd half...and I'm still intrigued by both Mai & Thiaw, who started ahead of him.

EDIT:
Just saw the highlights of Moukoko's goals and damn does that look more like the Moukoko we saw at previous levels. Him finding his swagger at the senior level could be a major wildcard for BVB this season.


----------



## cgf

The swiss typically give us problems, but the U19s have come out flying against our southwestern cousins. Lütke-Frie, Semic, Rhein, Sieb, & Arrey-Mbi are definitely playing.

Netz is on the team as well, though I haven't seen him on the pitch yet & missed the opening lineups. E: Lasse Günther is playing LB for him, which is interesting...


- I'm going to be so heartbroken when Arrey-Mbi & Bella Kotchap doesn't end up a world-class CB partnership. Both still obviously need polish; particularly with their passing, but they are so impressive against the ball & comfortable on it even when pressured.
- First I'm seeing of Ben Klefisch and he's having a really rough go of it...E: he has grown into the game more & started playing some nice long balls, but he's still rough under pressure & in tight spaces; kinda like a u19 level Xhaka.
- Lütke-Frie otoh is showing nicely, though his touch has been sloppy in spots.
- and Semic has done very well against the ball...though I have yet to see much of him going forwards.
- I like this Youssef Amyn kid from Victoria Köln. He presents himself well for the ball, is good in tight spaces, and is seeking crafty solutions.

Bit lucky on that goal, but Amyn deserved to be the one who got it.
...Lütke-Frie almost sprung Amyn for a second with a really nicely weighted throughball.
...Rhein is such a clever little s*** 


Most impressed by Amyn, Arrey-Mbi, Rhein, Semic, & Lütke-Frie in that half; probably in that order. Amyn has been the standout performer, though Arrey-Mbi & Rhein have also been fantastic, with Lütke-Frie showing some very nice positives that more than makeup for his sloppy first touch, and Semic looking really good against the ball while doing a good job of getting into dangerous positions.

Gürpüz, Günther & Sieb were largely anonymous that half...don't think I like Sieb up top, he has looked much more involved when I've seen him on the wing for Bayern. While Rosenfelder only stuck out when he gave away a golden opportunity while fishing for a striker-foul. Klefisch got better when he operated in more space, but despite his excellent first name, I still wasn't impressed much at all...outside of one really nice long ball to Semic.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

bluesfan94 said:


> ‘05 good lord.




hate this turn of events quite a bit


----------



## cgf

Wirtz & Adeyemi combining to set Karim up in his senior team debut at 4:22


----------



## cgf

The German U19s will face England's today.


Sieb looks a lot more engaged today, and our pressing is really messing with the english U19s...having forced a few turnovers in their own third already. Semic has had some good scenes already as well...looks like they didn't keep their shirt #s from the last one, so #2 today isn't Semic but is instead Mainz's Keanu Kraft. Brandt's younger bro Jacha has shown some nice flashes so far.

Ooph, a deflection on a Gürpüz shot almost falls to Amyn for the 1-0 but an english player blocked it out for the corner at the last moment.

Not loving what I've seen of Günther at LB these past two games.
...or Rosenfelder at CB; Arrey-Mbi has had to clean up for him a lot.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

England have been doing a lot better the past few minutes. Edozie showing some nice explosiveness, Jebbison regularly looking dangerous, and Liverpool's James Norris flashing some very quick feet. Humphreys has looked interesting as well, england's build-up play often ends up having to go through him to avoid our press & get anywhere...though Sieb has caused him some issues that he's just about gotten away with.

This is turning into a fun game...Jacha definitely has some Julian to his passing vision/creativity & ability to look like he's not doing anything with the ball while he waits for a run to develop.

Amyn is having a lot more trouble with England's size & athleticism than he did switzerland's, but is still having a good showing...right as I write that two english players pressed him successfully to create england's first half-chance 

Jonas Urbig is very impressive with the ball at his feet; not just for a u19 keeper. Two footed, he's shown some dribbling ability under pressure, and is playing excellent long passes into the midfield. Really hope he doesn't suck at the other parts of goalkeeping lol...seems an aggressive sweeper from the look of things.

Günther is getting forward more, but I still don't like his passing/crossing, touch/dribbling, or defensive instincts...and Kraft is looking so much better on the right; really strong performance from the Mainzer.

I knew it would happen one day...but I just watched Arrey-Mbi get beat for the first time, Edozie just got around him to play a pass to the middle that resulted in a toothless shot for Urbig to collect. Arrey-Mbi is just so good at cutting attacks out *drools*

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fun half. We controlled the opening ~15 minutes but couldn't capitalize. Over the next ~10 england grew into the game and came out of the water break with a period of ascendancy, before the last 10 minutes were more open. We had the stronger period of ascendancy and seemed to be getting the better of them during the open period, but the kids need to finish off some of these attacking movements.

Rhein & Arrey-Mbi were both excellent...Sieb has been just as good, but as a forward he bares more responsibility for us still not having scored. After those 3, I was most impressed by Brandt, Kraft, Urbig & Amyn...though the little iraqi-german has had a tougher time with the english physicality and hasn't been quite as impressive as Sieb or Brandt.

Gürpüz had some really nice moments, especially early in the game, and seems like a good presser, but all in all, he has been pretty anonymous again...there's definitely talent there, but I want to see more from him. Kesik & Rosenfelder have been mediocre-to-poor, not really much to add.


----------



## Savant

@cgf 

since you were talking about him recently:


----------



## cgf

Savant said:


> @cgf
> 
> since you were talking about him recently:





*sigh* there were always rumors about his dedication/ego, but those injuries just crushed him before he had a chance to mature past that.

Will give this a read later


----------



## cgf

Amyn heard me doubting him & decided to dance through 4-5 english defenders like it was nothing...

Kraft with his first mistake puts Rosenfelder under pressure, which he managed to deal with without Arrey-Mbi's help.

Armindo Sieb with a nasty bicycle kick to bury the opener right before the teams each made like 5 changes...that's certainly one way to secure the standout of the match for himself 

2minutes after Arrey-Mbi came off, England equalized...just sayin'...

Viktoria Köln's Youssef Amyn almost connected on another bicycle kick, this time with Sieb delivering the ball into the box. Amyn seems to have figured out how to deal with England's strength & physicality, he's been phenomenal in this 2nd half.

Castrop has looked really good since coming on, while Andresen has looked good going forward...though he's gotten burned badly going the other way once or twice...and Rosenfelder looks better as well; can't tell if that's just because Arrey-Mbi isn't there to make him looks worse by comparison or if he's actually playing better without that safety net.

wtf was that from Shoretire? That could've been a red in a competitive match.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After those two matches Youssef Amyn is my standout performer. Rhein & Arrey-Mbi were excellent too, and in this match, Armindo Sieb was the star of the show, but Amyn was fantastic against the swiss & in the second half today...even while he was struggling to adjust to england's strength, he almost opened the scoring just 5 or 6 minutes into the match. The tiny attacker has quick feet, is very crafty in tight spaces, works hard to receive the ball in good spots, and is constantly hunting for creative solutions...I might have to try to check out some 3rd league matches this season despite BayernII having been relegated...

Rhein & Arrey-Mbi, I've gushed about before. Neither's the finished product, but I just adore watching them at youth levels. Watching Rhein is pretty much what it was like watching Kimmich at the youth level...tiny, crafty, skilled, and intensely combative; "that clever little s***" is pretty much the perfect description for both. Now the question is if Rhein will be able to polish his skillset & develop his body as effectively as Kimmich did, because there's still a long ways to go for him...both physically & technically.

And against the ball Arrey-Mbi has everything you could want other than freakish size; he's incredibly quick and uses his reading of the game to defend extremely proactively. While he's good on the ball and can deliver excellent long passes, that is the part of his game that needs the most polish still; as he's just not as automatic with those longballs as he will need to be at the top level, yet.

After those three I was most impressed with Armindo Sieb, Jacha Brandt, Jens Castrop, Keanu Kraft, Lion Semic, Jonas Urbig and Bent Andresen...with Lütke-Fries & Gürpüz just missing the cut; the former because he gives me a lot of the same vibes that Passlack did and it's always hard to predict someone elevating their skill level the way Hofmann or Neuhaus have, the latter because he has the skillset and just wasn't able to do enough with it in these two matches. If you could merge the best qualities of each one into a single kid, you'd have one hell of a u19 player.


----------



## Savant

cgf said:


> *sigh* there were always rumors about his dedication/ego, but those injuries just crushed him before he had a chance to mature past that.
> 
> Will give this a read later



Yeah it’s a shame that his knee was destroyed. Was starting to get more of a look too.


----------



## Savant

@YNWA14 @Ajacied 

Do you know anything about Isaac Babadi?


----------



## cgf

Missed it cause of work, but I'm glad to see the U21s were able to turn around an early defecit and missed pen...Moukoko grabbed his 3rd goal in 2 matches for at that level, and ABK came on for Thiaw again in the 2nd half. Hopefully I can catch a replay and see how Stiller, Krauß & Becker did together; as all 3 have some interesting qualities.


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> @YNWA14 @Ajacied
> 
> Do you know anything about Isaac Babadi?



Honestly I haven't been plugged into soccer at all since last year basically. Been following on the surface, watching games here and there but I haven't even talked to any of my Dutch friends or the private group I'm in. I could look into it though but can't promise I'll be prompt.

Also sorry just saying because I know I've been tagged in a few posts like this recently and while I'd love to help I just haven't really been in it lately.


----------



## Venkman

Watched the Germany v England U19 game. Struggled early with the German press, all three CBs giving the ball away in dangerous positions in the first 15 minutes. Eventually settled and grew into the game. Balagizi had a good chance after Edozie cut across Arrey-Mbi into the box.

Brilliant goal by Sieb but Balagizi missed a header at the near post to clear the corner. Chukwuemeka made an instant impact off the bench driving past the defender into the box to set up Scarlett for 1-1. England nearly went ahead after Oyegoke nutmegged the LB and fired in a cross that hit Rosenfelder then the GK without him knowing much about it. Shoretire was lucky to stay on after a heavy touch led to a bad tackle.

Liked the look of Nile John in CM, quick feet and ability to turn out of traffic and drive forward. England were missing one of their best CBs, Levi Colwill who is with the U21s and CF Liam Delap who I think is recovering from injury. A couple of the talented Arsenal kids, Patino and Hutchinson weren't in the squad either.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## KJS14

Anyone here have anything on Charlie Patino, 17yo CM in Arsenal's academy? He's been talked about a bunch over the past week or so after captaining the U21 team, and he's drawn comparisons to Wilshere from Arsenal scouts. Sounds like he's one to keep an eye on for us, so was wondering if anyone had any feedback.


----------



## AB13

KJS14 said:


> Anyone here have anything on Charlie Patino, 17yo CM in Arsenal's academy? He's been talked about a bunch over the past week or so after captaining the U21 team, and he's drawn comparisons to Wilshere from Arsenal scouts. Sounds like he's one to keep an eye on for us, so was wondering if anyone had any feedback.




He’s more hyped than Saka and ESR at the same age. 17 and by far the best player for the U23 team so far. Scored this goal yesterday against United. Made Phil Jones and Dean Henderson look like scrubs.

I have only watched highlights of him, but the way he drives with the ball reminds me a bit of Wilshere. He isn’t nearly as physically powerful though and probably not as good as Wilshere at his age. But it seems like he is extremely talented has real good deep lying playmaker abilities. I think Frenkie De Jong is a good comparison.

This Hale End generation really should be hyped more. It’s a golden generation. I probably wouldn’t trade youngsters with any team in the world right now.


----------



## gary69

cgf said:


> Extremely impressive BuLi1 debut for Armel Bella Kotchap. Kid was a force in the back for Bochum...like he had been all of last season in BuLi2...and I just love how he wasn't happy with himself after playing it safe with a late clearance & conceding a corner. Really gives the vibe that he won't be content unless he becomes genuinely great; which would be huge for us after the way Süle, Tah & Kehrer stagnated at this level.
> 
> The WM will be too soon for him, but if he keeps this up, he'll be starting for us by the 2024 cycle.





He was injured during today's match, maybe a thigh injury. You could see he wasn't able to run properly in the situation where Maolida was given too much room to get his shot off and score. Belle Kotchap was then subbed off.


----------



## cgf

gary69 said:


> He was injured during today's match, maybe a thigh injury. You could see he wasn't able to run properly in the situation where Maolida was given too much room to get his shot off and score. Belle Kotchap was then subbed off.




Of course this happened after I had to run out...at least BMG won and Netz got his first start for them, though I haven't watched that one yet

...*sigh* hope ABK's not out for long.


----------



## cgf

In happier news, Lazar Samardzic scored a nice goal for Udinese on his debut. 10 goals per 90 is pretty legendary, wonder if he'll keep it up?... 


Goal at 2:25


----------



## Eye of Ra

cgf you are doing good job with those scouting reports. not to lick your ass too much but some of you guys should get picked by a club as a scout.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Eye of Ra said:


> cgf you are doing good job with those scouting reports. not to lick your ass too much but some of you guys should get picked by a club as a scout.



The world has enough Draxlers


----------



## cgf

Eye of Ra said:


> cgf you are doing good job with those scouting reports. not to lick your ass too much but some of you guys should get picked by a club as a scout.




I appreciate the kind words but I have friends who have worked as scouts for certain 1st & 2nd division clubs in germany...thus my affinity for Gladbach & endless respect for Eberl...so I know for a fact that that life is not for me 

At least not at this point in my life. Maybe a couple of careers from now I'll retire to traveling eastern europe, scouting teenagers lol


Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> The world has enough Draxlers




Facts. May no german prospect ever underachieve their talent as much as Julian has, again!


----------



## bluesfan94

cgf said:


> Maybe a couple of careers from now I'll retire to traveling eastern europe, scouting teenagers lol



There’s some joke to be made here


----------



## cgf

bluesfan94 said:


> There’s some joke to be made here




"That's exactly what Orban has been warning everyone about!"

?


----------



## luiginb

cgf said:


> "That's exactly what Orban has been warning everyone about!"
> 
> ?



You're not brown enough.


----------



## cgf

luiginb said:


> You're not brown enough.




I am bi enough though ;-)


Plus my kids will be too brown for Orban.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I think this is probably Dortmund's best chance to win the Youth League, and I actually think we might have the most talented potential squad in the competition this year. We have a shot most years, but with the talent we have this year it'd be a big shame to not win it.

This is the lineup we could put out at full strength.

---------------------Kirsch-----------------------------
Semic-------Collins---------Coulibaly--------Roethe

--------------Kamara--------Bellingham---------------

Knauff-------------Reyna------------------------Reinier

----------------------Moukoko-----------------------------

Bench: Ostrzinski, Mrosek, Cisse, Walz, Luetke-Frie, Guerpuez, Bynoe-Gittens, Bamba, Rijkhoff, Fink

I didn't even include some of the U23 team players that aren't likely to make it at Dortmund, but could have good pro careers like Thaqi, Bafounta, and Bueno.

We played the first game of the competition today in Turkey, and won 3-2 without probably 7 of our best XI age-eligible players.

@cgf, Sam Bamba is really starting to emerge as a top winger prospect. I had mentioned previously that some think he's going to be better than Bynoe-Gittens, who came from City billed as the next Sancho, and Bamba's taking advantage of the start to this season. Both are great, but Bamba has actually been able to stay on the field, and most reports state he's been the best player for the U-19's so far this season. He scored the first goal in the game against Besiktas today. He may move up to the U23's at midseason.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> [snip]
> 
> @cgf, Sam Bamba is really starting to emerge as a top winger prospect. I had mentioned previously that some think he's going to be better than Bynoe-Gittens, who came from City billed as the next Sancho, and Bamba's taking advantage of the start to this season. Both are great, but Bamba has actually been able to stay on the field, and most reports state he's been the best player for the U-19's so far this season. He scored the first goal in the game against Besiktas today. He may move up to the U23's at midseason.




Yeah, Bamba's one I'm curious to see play for myself as it certainly sounds like he's taking great strides for you guys. Would be fun if you guys found a Musiala of your own.

As for that hypothetical youth league squad, Reyna won't actually play for that team, will he? I can see Moukoko getting PT for them with Erling & Malen on the senior team, but won't Reyna be on the senior team until they get bounced?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> As for that hypothetical youth league squad, Reyna won't actually play for that team, will he? I can see Moukoko getting PT for them with Erling & Malen on the senior team, but won't Reyna be on the senior team until they get bounced?




No, neither will Bellingham, unless we get to the finals and have nothing to play for at that point with the first team. I’m merely making the point though that this is the best collection of talent we’ve probably ever had at once in these age groups.


----------



## Eye of Ra

speaking of youth league, malmö - juventus 2-2, i expected more from juventus


----------



## luiginb

I feel like Niko Schlotterbeck is not getting enough love on this forum. Such a mean, old school central defender. One of the big reasons for Freiburg and Union's play the last couple of seasons, and he's only 21.

Also, on the topic of young central defenders, Todibo's play this start of the season makes me angry as a Barcelona fan.


----------



## cgf

luiginb said:


> I feel like Niko Schlotterbeck is not getting enough love on this forum. Such a mean, old school central defender. One of the big reasons for Freiburg and Union's play the last couple of seasons, and he's only 21.
> 
> Also, on the topic of young central defenders, Todibo's play this start of the season makes me angry as a Barcelona fan.




I mentioned Nico before in my post about young german CBs and think he can end up even better than Marvin Friedrich; aka reaching a level that would actually help the senior NT, even if only in a depth role. He gets lost in the shuffle a little because he doesn't have as high of a ceiling as some of the other kids we have coming through (Bella Kotchap, Arrey Mbi, Dardai) and he's very similar to Felix Uduokhai, who (IMO) is further ahead in their development arcs & the better dribbler.

...but Flick did recognize the great work Nico's put in, calling him up for this latest international break, and ultimately it is how all these kids develop over the next few years that will decide which ones (if any) actually become NT contributors. Least we forget how Tah, Süle, Kehrer, & Ginter looked like they would be an upgrade on Badstuber, Boateng, & Hummels, not so long ago.


----------



## luiginb

Ginter and Sule are still on track, no? Never got the Kehrer hype, and you're right, Nico does remind me sometimes of Tah, hopefully he evolves better.


----------



## cgf

luiginb said:


> Ginter and Sule are still on track, no? Never got the Kehrer hype, and you're right, Nico does remind me sometimes of Tah, hopefully he evolves better.




Not really IMO. Süle could still approach the levels that were expected of him after he first broke through, I suppose...and it does look (so far) like this season will be a big step in the right direction after two seasons of stagnation...but it'll be hard for him to live up to the hype he had when he burst onto the scene.

An absolute mammoth since day 1, the kid was regularly beating speed-merchant wingers in team sprints & utilizing that straight-line-speed to crush counters when they got through TSG's aggressive press; while Nagelsmann had him spraying passes around like some Hummels/Beckenbauer hybrid. Turning all of that beef once he hit top speed was never a strength of his and if he got caught going in the wrong direction with momentum, he was in trouble, but the other tools he had in his toolkit set hopes *very* high.


And Ginter has become a very solid CB, so I mean no disrespect, but he too once had absolutely massive hype that I would be hard-pressed to say he has fully lived up to. IIRC he won a Fritz Walter Gold or Silver, and in those early freiburg days it looked like his long balls would become absolutely world class in a couple of years. Though of that quartet, he has certainly come the closest to living up to his early hype, to this point.


Not living up to their hype shouldn't be taken to mean I think they are bad players, it's more about just how massive expectations once were...even if neither of them was as hyped as Tah; who was supposed to be what Varane ended up becoming.


----------



## Savant

cgf said:


> Not really IMO. Süle could still approach the levels that were expected of him after he first broke through, I suppose...and it does look (so far) like this season will be a big step in the right direction after two seasons of stagnation...but it'll be hard for him to live up to the hype he had when he burst onto the scene.
> 
> An absolute mammoth since day 1, the kid was regularly beating speed-merchant wingers in team sprints & utilizing that straight-line-speed to crush counters when they got through TSG's aggressive press; while Nagelsmann had him spraying passes around like some Hummels/Beckenbauer hybrid. Turning all of that beef once he hit top speed was never a strength of his and if he got caught going in the wrong direction with momentum, he was in trouble, but the other tools he had in his toolkit set hopes *very* high.
> 
> 
> And Ginter has become a very solid CB, so I mean no disrespect, but he too once had absolutely massive hype that I would be hard-pressed to say he has fully lived up to. IIRC he won a Fritz Walter Gold or Silver, and in those early freiburg days it looked like his long balls would become absolutely world class in a couple of years. Though of that quartet, he has certainly come the closest to living up to his early hype, to this point.
> 
> 
> Not living up to their hype shouldn't be taken to mean I think they are bad players, it's more about just how massive expectations once were...even if neither of them was as hyped as Tah; who was supposed to be what Varane ended up becoming.



I never saw it with Tah


----------



## cgf

Savant said:


> I never saw it with Tah




He hasn't improved since he was ~20/21, so I can't really blame you, but he was a high end athlete, with excellent size, and just exceptional ball skills. He's still horribly inconsistent & unreliable, but some of his peak moments are kind of ridiculous, even if he weren't a 1.95m CB. 

...which is what makes it so disappointing that the light never came on for him, like it did for Boa. Had his development not stopped when he broke into Leverkusen's 1st team, he could've given Varane a run for his money.


----------



## gary69

cgf said:


> He hasn't improved since he was ~20/21, so I can't really blame you, but he was a high end athlete, with excellent size, and just exceptional ball skills. He's still horribly inconsistent & unreliable, but some of his peak moments are kind of ridiculous, even if he weren't a 1.95m CB.
> 
> ...which is what makes it so disappointing that the light never came on for him, like it did for Boa. Had his development not stopped when he broke into Leverkusen's 1st team, he could've given Varane a run for his money.




Agree, I thought Tah would be great, I still liked his performances in Europe a few years ago, even if the high end results weren't there for Leverkusen. He really should have moved on after the 19/20 season, although he might have without the Covid situation.


----------



## AB13

This Mika Biereth guy is putting up great numbers for the U23s


----------



## cgf

gary69 said:


> Agree, I thought Tah would be great, I still liked his performances in Europe a few years ago, even if the high end results weren't there for Leverkusen. He really should have moved on after the 19/20 season, although he might have without the Covid situation.




TBH I think he should've moved even earlier. If not before the WM, he should've moved after it for the 2018-2019 season. 

But like Draxler, he seems to be content at the level he has reached...and I can't really blame anyone for not being as psychopathically focused on one thing, as it takes to become a truly world class footballer...though as a german fan it is disappointing.

...at least Nagelsmann has Süle playing well and Bella Kotchap's injury wasn't so serious that he didn't get to experience Bochum's 0-7 against Bayern


----------



## Savant

Kaide Gordon is definitely the next prospect to keep an eye on but if James Balagizi gets on (he is on the bench) that is also someone worth tracking. Balagizi would have done preseason with the First Team this summer but he hurt his wrist the week before and wasn’t medically cleared


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Savant said:


> Kaide Gordon is definitely the next prospect to keep an eye on but if James Balagizi gets on (he is on the bench) that is also someone worth tracking. Balagizi would have done preseason with the First Team this summer but he hurt his wrist the week before and wasn’t medically cleared




I really really like Balagizi and I was utterly dissapointed to not have seen come in. I think he is exactly what we are missing in midfield and hopefully they can develop him properly and he can become a key contributor to the team.


----------



## Savant

JeffreyLFC said:


> I really really like Balagizi and I was utterly dissapointed to not have seen come in. I think he is exactly what we are missing in midfield and hopefully they can develop him properly and he can become a key contributor to the team.



He is making his u23 debut today


----------



## Incubajerks

Lorenzo Lucca, he's a striker in SerieB and could be call by Mancini.


----------



## cgf

Di Salvo's first U21 roster:




*** Thielmann has had to decline due to fitness ***


EDIT2:
Lars Lukas Mai has also had to stay back for this break, Jäkel getting promoted from the u20s to replacehim:



Guessing something like:

Moukoko
Burkardt - Appelkamp - Leweling
Krauß - Stiller
Katterbach/Netz - Bella Kotchap - Thiaw - Massimo/Mbom

Burkardt - Moukoko - Appelkamp/Leweling
Krauß - Keitel/Mbom
Stiller
Katterbach/Netz - Bella Kotchap - Thiaw - Massimo/Mbom​


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Alfie Devine, a midfielder that turned 17 just in August has five goals and two assists in seven games for Spurs U23's. That's insane.


----------



## cgf

Copado really stuck out in a positive way during Bayern's preseason friendlies. I think he could be ready for some cameos with Bayern's senior team this year, when they need to rest their stars / cover for injuries. While Wanner is one of the top talents in his age group and (alongside Arijon Ibrahimovic, who has already been training with the senior team) one of the jewels of Bayern's academy at the moment. This (Eyüp) Aydin is also highly rated lol.


Elsewhere, Samardzic -- who asked not to get called to any youth teams so he could focus on establishing himself at his club -- took the corner that resulted in Udinese's equalizer on the weekend; while Roberto Massimo nabbed Stuttgart's 3rd goal, and Schalke's Mehmet Can Aydin scored a fantastic first goal.

In more unfortunate news another of Bayern's academy jewels, Yusuf Kabadayi, will be out until the new year after tearing ligaments in his shoulder.


And finally, in @Duchene2MacKinnon news, Klimowicz apparently deleted all of the germany-pics from his instagram, including those from the U21 EM. So looks like he may opt for you guys still.


----------



## Jussi

Looks like Wayne Rooney's kid Kai has been on a tear since joining United's academy.


----------



## TheBigBadCat

Incubajerks said:


> Lorenzo Lucca, he's a striker in SerieB and could be call by Mancini.




Federico Chiesa is the best young player in Italy ( I hate the fact plays for Juve )


----------



## cgf

TheBigBadCat said:


> Federico Chiesa is the best young player in Italy ( I hate the fact plays for Juve )




Chiesa turns 24 this month and made his debut for Italy's senior NT 3.5 years ago...so I'm not sure he qualifies as a prospect anymore


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> Copado really stuck out in a positive way during Bayern's preseason friendlies. I think he could be ready for some cameos with Bayern's senior team this year, when they need to rest their stars / cover for injuries. While Wanner is one of the top talents in his age group and (alongside Arijon Ibrahimovic, who has already been training with the senior team) one of the jewels of Bayern's academy at the moment.
> 
> 
> Elsewhere, Samardzic -- who asked not to get called to any youth teams so he could focus on establishing himself at his club -- took the corner that resulted in Udinese's equalizer on the weekend; while Roberto Massimo nabbed Stuttgart's 3rd goal, and Schalke's Mehmet Can Ayden scored a fantastic first goal.
> 
> In more unfortunate news another of Bayern's academy jewels, Yusuf Kabadayi, will be out until the new year after tearing ligaments in his shoulder.
> 
> 
> And finally, in @Duchene2MacKinnon news, Klimowicz apparently deleted all of the germany-pics from his instagram, including those from the U21 EM. So looks like he may opt for you guys still.




Keep him


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Keep him




Wish I had seen this earlier, he's already in the mail. 

E:
Found a non-geo-locked version of Aydin's "Karate Kid" goal:




U19s play again today, gunna try to time my labwork so I can run home for at least a half. Curious to see how Baah & Cabrera look with this group. Hoping to see something like:

Sieb
Amyn/Baah - Cabrera - Brandt/Baah
Rhein - Castrop
Andresen - Arrey Mbi - Rosenfelder - Semic/Kraft
Urbig​


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Next Generation 2021: 20 of the best talents at Premier League clubs

Guardian's yearly list of the best 16-17 year old at each club.


----------



## cgf

Slovakian commentator




Looks like we started:

Sieb
Baah - Wagner - Amyn
Rhein - Castrop
Günther - Arrey Mbi - Rosenfelder - Kraft
Urbig​

- Rosenfelder is looking better than he did during the last international break...doing a really nice job of pushing forward into the midfield to support attacking movements.

- Hell of a finish from Baah for his first goal in a german jersey...he looks to be a really nifty player, very solidly built already as well.

- Kraft is looking impressive again...feels like he could've done better on the goal against though.

- Günther is doing a better job of driving the play forward than he did against Switzerland or England, but he's still lacking in the final third...even for a WB...of course as I wrote this he knocked in a low cross for Wagner to poke home the 2-0 

- Wagner has been more impactful than Gürpüz was last time, even beyond the goal, but he's still too peripheral too much of the time. GG was more active when he came on, though I still came away wanting a lot more from him.

- Again I like Andresen more than Günther, despite Lasse doing a good job of driving the play forward today.

- Cabrera on for Castrop...whose brilliant ball to Kraft, created the penalty that was converted for the 4-1. I really like him next to Rhein; who became much more assertive in this second half, weaving his way through crowds to try to spark more danger, to great effect.

- Cabrera has great size, quick feet in a crowd, and excellent hair...though his finishing may need some work. I would like to see him start alongside Rhein & Castrop, behind Baah - Sieb - Amyn, in their next match.

- Arrey Mbi's passing may still need polish & consistency, but man is he comfortable on the ball with opposing players around him. Not only shaking off slovakian pressers like they weren't even there, but he did a nice job creating space for himself to get a good shot off in the opposing box; which deflected over to Sieb for the 5-1.

His ceiling really is just whatever he wants it to be; as everything he needs to improve can be improved through time / experience & effort / practice. The more I watch him the more he reminds me of Upamecano when I first saw him play for Leipzig...hopefully his development follows a similar arc...

- Urbig didn't have much to do and has little blame for the goal against, but his distribution was very good again...though (fortunately) he didn't need to show off his dribbling this time around


----------



## robertmac43

Guardian did some reports on 60 up and coming talents; 

Next Generation 2021: 60 of the best young talents in world football


----------



## Evilo

The three french players chosen are weird. Not that they're not good, but there are other names out there.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

These are the worst takes they’ve had from a US perspective. This year it’s facepalm worthy. One guy they named doesn’t even play for us and another is a middling player. Not the strongest US age group anyway, but we have some good players that you’ll hear about in a few years.


----------



## cgf

robertmac43 said:


> Guardian did some reports on 60 up and coming talents;
> 
> Next Generation 2021: 60 of the best young talents in world football




It's only right that the coolest club has the coolest academy...would be nice if Sanogo developed well enough to replace Awoniyi, whenever we have to sell Taiwo.

Picking Gechter over some of our other kids is a little surprising, but he's highly thought of as well...some german fans were happy that Netz was moving to Gladbach because it cleared a path to more PT for Gechter...and he has made his debut for Hertha.


----------



## Evilo

For his first U21 selection, Rayan Cherki (18 yo) scored a nice goal.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Yesterday a 13 year old named Axel Kei played in the American second league. He was the youngest to play in a pro sports game in NA sports history.

The kid is a pretty good player for his age group, but there are also questions about his age. He was born in Ivory Coast. There has been speculation that he may be two years older than he says.

This stuff is always tough. He may be older than he says and no one is aware. The record keeping in parts of Africa isn't good, and the age of some players often isn't known. He may also be 13 years old and an extreme early developer (he’s a 6’1 forward and very strong).


----------



## PansCyans

I’m having Freddy Adu flashbacks


----------



## Power Man

France U18 destroyed us lol


----------



## Evilo

Evilo said:


> For his first U21 selection, Rayan Cherki (18 yo) scored a nice goal.



In fact he scored two that day, my mistake.

And now in his second game, he scored another. Gouiri also scored before being subed injured.


----------



## Eye of Ra

Things looking good for Swedens u21 national team. Leading our group ahead of Italy. We had a draw against Italy today away.

Anthony Elanga, Eric Kahl, Emil Holm are gonna be very good players.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> In fact he scored two that day, my mistake.
> 
> And now in his second game, he scored another. Gouiri also scored before being subed injured.




Nice to see he's keeping up with Tillman ('02) who has two goals & an assist after two games for the U21s. 

Schade has looked good as well during this break. Very speedy, good size and playing with great confidence.

E:


----------



## gary69

cgf said:


> Nice to see he's keeping up with Tillman ('02) who has two goals & an assist after two games for the U21s. *Schade* has looked good as well during this break. Very speedy, good size and playing with great confidence.




Pity that he plays for Freiburg.


----------



## cgf

gary69 said:


> Pity that he plays for Freiburg.




It certainly is...a shame...*pause for applause*


----------



## John Pedro

the next Riquelme isn't argentinian. 

Incredible talented left back, very creative as a dribbler


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> the next Riquelme isn't argentinian.
> 
> Incredible talented left back, very creative as a dribbler




The next Riquelme is a left back?

well if that’s true it’s barco


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> The next Riquelme is a left back?
> 
> well if that’s true it’s barco




His given name actually is Riquelme lol


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> His given name actually is Riquelme lol



loool nice

Sidenote you should probably change your avy?


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> loool nice
> 
> Sidenote you should probably change your avy?




I tried it when Hall got traded, but somehow couldn't do because of a loading error and as time passed I grew used to it. If Hughes wins the Hart I'll have no choice, though


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> I tried it when Hall got traded, but somehow couldn't do because of a loading error and as time passed I grew used to it. If Hughes wins the Hart I'll have no choice, though



I mean there are other better choices.


----------



## John Pedro

Tite should call him up, so much better than Emerson and Danilo


----------



## Fulham

Enes Sali set the record for youngest scorer in the Hungarian First Division, last year he was the youngest debutant at 15 years 6 months.

TFC reject that went to Barcelona and then left for the Hagi Academy. He's a Canadian Romanian kid. One to watch. Hasn't declared for a senior side yet.


----------



## luiginb

Fulham said:


> Enes Sali set the record for youngest scorer in the Hungarian First Division, last year he was the youngest debutant at 15 years 6 months.
> 
> TFC reject that went to Barcelona and then left for the Hagi Academy. He's a Canadian Romanian kid. One to watch. Hasn't declared for a senior side yet.




Romanian first division, not Hungarian. And there's a better chance he declares for Turkey than Canada, his family is part of the Turkish community in my hometown. Also lol at "tfc reject", kid would walk right into your first team. I'm 99 percent sure he's going to be a Romanian national.


----------



## Fulham

luiginb said:


> Romanian first division, not Hungarian. And there's a better chance he declares for Turkey than Canada, his family is part of the Turkish community in my hometown. Also lol at "tfc reject", kid would walk right into your first team. I'm 99 percent sure he's going to be a Romanian national.



“TFC reject” wasn’t meant as a dig at him… just TFC Talent Spotters.

He follows all the CMNT players on social media, as well as the CSA so my fingers are crossed.


----------



## Ajacied

Unuvar was injured and generally had a down year most of last season. He’s currently in great form again. Contributing to nearly 80% of all Ajax II goals this season. Just had this sweet assist:


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Wtf is going on with Ihattaren?


----------



## Ajacied

Vasilevskiy said:


> Wtf is going on with Ihattaren?




Typical case of a problem child with no mental strength. He derailed as soon as his father passed away, though. So there’s somewhat of a reason behind it. Huge shame. Kid really has the total package; great body, massive skillset and football IQ.


----------



## Eye of Ra

Ajacied said:


> Typical case of a problem child with no mental strength. He derailed as soon as his father passed away, though. So there’s somewhat of a reason behind it. Huge shame. Kid really has the total package; great body, massive skillset and football IQ.




I think Ajax would have been a good club for him. There is good mentality in Ajax. Moving to Juve was wrong choice.

Btw is not Kökcu in Feeynoord pretty big talent aswell?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Eye of Ra said:


> I think Ajax would have been a good club for him. There is good mentality in Ajax. Moving to Juve was wrong choice.
> 
> Btw is not Kökcu in Feeynoord pretty big talent aswell?




So you think he’s going to move from PSV to Ajax? Seems unlikely.


----------



## Eye of Ra

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> So you think he’s going to move from PSV to Ajax? Seems unlikely.




Berghuis move to Ajax. He opened the door. 

No but Ajax is becoming totally dominant in Netherlands. They are way ahead of PSV and Feeynoord. Ajax is in good position when it comes to economy.


----------



## AB13

Spain, France and England dominate.


----------



## Savant




----------



## les Habs

AB13 said:


> Spain, France and England dominate.





You have to be very careful with these sorts of lists and the criteria that is used. I'm referring specifically to age. If you go to the original source material, they say they use the UEFA coefficient which is according to them "As per UEFA definition, training clubs are those where footballers have played for at least three years between the ages of 15 and 21. The season during which players celebrated their 15th and 21st birthday are also included." Now that is correct as it's my understanding for some time and can be somewhat indicative of an academy's success, but I think the lines can be blurred and it's somewhat low hanging fruit. A few thoughts:

Take Barça for example. I think they would get credit for Pedro and Busquets using this example and will eventually get credit for Pedri. That said none of those players for me qualify as La Masia products since they spent little or in Pedri's case no time there.
Spanish youngsters sometimes leave at the age of 16 because they can secure contracts in other countries like England that they can't in Spain. So an English club's academy might get credit for a player, like Arsenal with Cesc for example, when he really wasn't a product of Arsenal's academy by any stretch.
I'm not saying what the correct measure of an academy really is and to a degree it might be hard to measure, but I would imagine how long a player played in a club's academy and possibly weighing that by what might be considered their formative years (difficult to measure part IMO) should be factored in. 

TLDR, these lists can be somewhat of a gauge but not necessarily a perfect one.


----------



## Ajacied

AB13 said:


> Spain, France and England dominate.


----------



## AB13

les Habs said:


> You have to be very careful with these sorts of lists and the criteria that is used. I'm referring specifically to age. If you go to the original source material, they say they use the UEFA coefficient which is according to them "As per UEFA definition, training clubs are those where footballers have played for at least three years between the ages of 15 and 21. The season during which players celebrated their 15th and 21st birthday are also included." Now that is correct as it's my understanding for some time and can be somewhat indicative of an academy's success, but I think the lines can be blurred and it's somewhat low hanging fruit. A few thoughts:
> 
> Take Barça for example. I think they would get credit for Pedro and Busquets using this example and will eventually get credit for Pedri. That said none of those players for me qualify as La Masia products since they spent little or in Pedri's case no time there.
> Spanish youngsters sometimes leave at the age of 16 because they can secure contracts in other countries like England that they can't in Spain. So an English club's academy might get credit for a player, like Arsenal with Cesc for example, when he really wasn't a product of Arsenal's academy by any stretch.
> I'm not saying what the correct measure of an academy really is and to a degree it might be hard to measure, but I would imagine how long a player played in a club's academy and possibly weighing that by what might be considered their formative years (difficult to measure part IMO) should be factored in.
> 
> TLDR, these lists can be somewhat of a gauge but not necessarily a perfect one.



I agree with what you are saying. The list is not really the best way to measure the quality of an academy but just some intresting numbers.


----------



## les Habs

AB13 said:


> I agree with what you are saying. The list is not really the best way to measure the quality of an academy but just some intresting numbers.




Yeah, it still gives you some sort of idea, but some clubs might have inflated numbers as a result of how UEFA measures an academy product. And by "you" I wasn't just referring to you but people in general.


----------



## Evilo

top 31 leagues? Like Bulgaria and all?
lol.


----------



## Evilo

Arsenal has just signed a 5 year old from Laval. 

World is crazy. Disgusting.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Arsenal has just signed a 5 year old from Laval.
> 
> World is crazy. Disgusting.



How is that even a possible thing


----------



## Evilo

Well, like they always do.
They find a nice "job" for their family which "moves" to London and decices to enroll their kid at Arsenal.
They always do that.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Well, like they always do.
> They find a nice "job" for their family which "moves" to London and decices to enroll their kid at Arsenal.
> They always do that.



At age 5 though?


----------



## phisherman

The mother is from Laval. I think the kid lives in London.

The four-year-old footballer recruited by Arsenal


----------



## Ajacied

Eye of Ra said:


> I think Ajax would have been a good club for him. There is good mentality in Ajax. Moving to Juve was wrong choice.
> 
> Btw is not Kökcu in Feeynoord pretty big talent aswell?




Ajax wouldn’t get him on track, either. 

And Kökcu is alright. He’s more of a #6 now and that has made him a less sexy prospect as he’s now much less involved offensively. I think Feyenoord might get near 10M for him if they play their cards right. Low PL team, midtable Bundesliga team or to one of the top teams in Turkey. He’ll likely end up there in a year or two.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Well, like they always do.
> They find a nice "job" for their family which "moves" to London and decices to enroll their kid at Arsenal.
> They always do that.



It especially helps when the family moved to London prior to Arsenal even knowing who he was.


----------



## Evilo

phisherman said:


> The mother is from Laval. I think the kid lives in London.
> 
> The four-year-old footballer recruited by Arsenal



Well yes, as I say


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> It especially helps when the family moved to London prior to Arsenal even knowing who he was.



Nope. 
À 5 ans, il est recruté par Arsenal et surnommé le "petit Messi" 
He was scouted by Arsenal prior to moving to London.


----------



## phisherman

I'm using Google translate but nothing in there says the kid was recruited from Laval and the parents moved from France to England after this came out. 

In fact it's just a repeat of the BBC link I posted and it was English scouts noticing him in England.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Nope.
> À 5 ans, il est recruté par Arsenal et surnommé le "petit Messi"
> He was scouted by Arsenal prior to moving to London.



Weird how the Arsenal scouts in the BBC piece said they first saw him in London. I don't know who would know better. Some random French reporter at Huffington Post or the scouts.


----------



## Evilo

phisherman said:


> I'm using Google translate but nothing in there says the kid was recruited from Laval and the parents moved from France to England after this came out.
> 
> In fact it's just a repeat of the BBC link I posted and it was English scouts noticing him in England.



It's in the title. 
"repéré".


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> Weird how the Arsenal scouts in the BBC piece said they first saw him in London. I don't know who would know better. Some random French reporter at Huffington Post or the scouts.



Since the article quotes different people reacting to the news... 
Of course, since it's illegal, Arsenal scouts would rush to admit it.


----------



## luiginb

Fulham said:


> “TFC reject” wasn’t meant as a dig at him… just TFC Talent Spotters.
> 
> He follows all the CMNT players on social media, as well as the CSA so my fingers are crossed.




He's just been called up to the Romanian national team. Payback for Corbeanu haha


----------



## Evilo

Leipzig /PSG youth league. Michut scores off that amazing flick from Simmons.


----------



## Evilo

Amad Diallo.
I'm still a big fan.


----------



## luiginb

He wouldn't have been brought over by his "father" had he not been a great talent...


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon




----------



## robertmac43

@Duchene2MacKinnon those stats are actually insane - where do you see him going for his next step?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

robertmac43 said:


> @Duchene2MacKinnon those stats are actually insane - where do you see him going for his next step?



Up in the air right now Atleti, Juve and LFC are the names rumoured. LFC seems like a long shot based on their history. I'm hoping Ajax and a mid table league from Serie A/la liga snap him up. As usual


----------



## robertmac43

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Up in the air right now *Brighton *is rumoured. LFC seems like a long shot based on their history. I'm hoping *Brighton *snap him up. As usual




Yeah I guess that makes sense... me too tbh


----------



## Evilo

Maxence Caqueret is a cheat code


----------



## Evilo

Cherki ain't bad either. This is U21 BTW and he's a 2003. He now has 4 goals in his first 3 games.


----------



## Evilo

And I have talked to you yet about this guy... But I love him.


----------



## cgf

German U21s having abit of a disaster against Poland. First, an unfortunate deflection from Netz after a lost ball in the midfield when Keitel fled the area that a pass to him was played to, led to the 0-1 falling after just 5 minutes. Then another sloppy lost ball in the midfield led to Mai & Mbom getting abused...Mai helpless to stop the throughball and Mbom providing zero resistance as Benedyczak picked up his second goal just 11 minutes in. Then, not a minute later, Mbom gets put on his ass by the polish LW before he slotted home the 0-3 less than 15 minutes into the match.

Replacing Keitel, Mai & Mbom could help, but I also feel like we need to play a 4-3-3 rather than a 4-2-3-1 if we want our FBs pushing up liks this without leaving ourselves exposed on the counter...especially with Keitel's lack of chemistry with Stiller & co.


----------



## Evilo

6 pros out of this team :
Coman
Kimpembe
Moussa Dembele
Lea Silicki
Ferland Mendy
Hervin Ogenda (most talented of them all but who crashed his career)

Not too bad.


----------



## luiginb

Ongenda is killing it in the Romanian league nowadays


----------



## Evilo

luiginb said:


> Ongenda is killing it in the Romanian league nowadays



Such a pity.
I've rarely seen such a talent with the cold blood in front of goal.
I remember in a youth tournament with Atletico, Real, Inter and all, he destroyed the competition with 18 goals in 8 games (25 goals total for his team), being named MVP and best scorer. He scored 3 in the final. 18 goals is obviously an alltime record.
After his first pro games under Ancelotti, he had offers from City, United, Arsenal and Chelsea and he rejected them all to stay with PSG. He played well in the few minutes he had under Blanc too, and was loaned to Bastia where he never fit with the coach. Was late to training, bad behaviour there. When he came back, depth was even bigger and he refused to leave PSG to get some minutes in another loan. Emery never counted on him and his PSG career ended there.
He went from small club to small club and I think he never had the mental strength to overcome his disappointment.


----------



## luiginb

Plus he's quite chubby. But you can see the talent.


----------



## cgf

U19s followed up the u21s first defeat of the year with one of their own. It was an experimentative lineup in places & missed my prefered midfield pairing (Rhein-Castrop) but there was quality in that side, so just like the polish U21 deserve credit for killing us for our mistakes, the russian u19s deserve credit in this one.


----------



## Evilo

Now, THAT's a save :


----------



## Evilo

Cherki has a G or A every 72 minutes this season. 2 goals in EL right now.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Now, THAT's a save :




Funny that City and Liverpool have the two best Brazilian keepers and the two best Irish keepers.


----------



## John Pedro

robertmac43 said:


> @Duchene2MacKinnon those stats are actually insane - where do you see him going for his next step?




Inter are scouting him tonight

could be Lautaro's partner or replacement.


----------



## John Pedro

Santos has produced three really good strikers in a span of 3 years. Crazy. Yuri Alberto (Internacional), Kaio Jorge (Juventus) and now Marcos Leonardo(18years old) scored twice tonight


----------



## John Pedro

Another goal for Julian Alvarez in River winning title game. He's improved so much from last year to today.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> Another goal for Julian Alvarez in River winning title game. He's improved so much from last year to today.




it’s like he stole all of Pedro’s mojo. What level do you see him at?





John Pedro said:


> Inter are scouting him tonight
> 
> could be Lautaro's partner or replacement.




along with barca and half of europe lol. I’m usually weary of barca buying unproven players but given the situation he’s worth the risk. Imo


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> it’s like he stole all of Pedro’s mojo. What level do you see him at?
> 
> along with barca and half of europe lol. I’m usually weary of barca buying unproven players but given the situation he’s worth the risk. Imo




Right now, he's better than Lautaro was when he was sold. He reminds me of a former Barça striker, Javier Saviola. Not as fast but better in front of goal. 

He should go to Inter, he would be perfect in a 2 striker formation and playing with Lautaro would ease his adaptation. I don't think he would do well at Barcelona as the lone striker, maybe in the future.

25m euros isn't much, indeed. Any big club could take that risk.


----------



## John Pedro

Ajax and Arsenal have been in touch with SP about Pedrinho. under20 kid that hasn't even debut in the pro side yet. Classic number 10, crazy vision and quickness. Still way too fragile, needs to gain some muscle ASAP. IF he ends up sold before debuting could be a bargain. I trully expect him to be a starter for Sao Paulo next season which will skyrock his value/price tag


----------



## robertmac43

John Pedro said:


> Ajax and Arsenal have been in touch with SP about Pedrinho.



I want him at Arsenal just for the name lol


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> Right now, he's better than Lautaro was when he was sold. He reminds me of a former Barça striker, Javier Saviola. Not as fast but better in front of goal.
> 
> He should go to Inter, he would be perfect in a 2 striker formation and playing with Lautaro would ease his adaptation. I don't think he would do well at Barcelona as the lone striker, maybe in the future.
> 
> 25m euros isn't much, indeed. Any big club could take that risk.



Interesting Lautaro was a tank back then. What do you think his ceiling is?


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Interesting Lautaro was a tank back then. What do you think his ceiling is?




Diogo Jota kind of player. Good for a top club, but wouldn't be the main man.

Maybe good enough to crack Arsenal's XI


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Manchester United brought a kid from the Washington DC area, Kristian Fletcher, for a trial. He’s a 16 year old forward with a UK passport, so he could move there right now. I hear he’s very fast and good with his finishing, but he plays in a private school league, so it’s almost impossible to know if he’s any good because he plays awful competition. He supposedly has offers from a lot of big clubs.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@Ajacied, Julian Rijkhoff scored five goals today for the U19’s. He has 15 goals in 18 games. He only starts about half of the games because the team is really good and he’s the only U17 player on the team, so his per minute goal numbers are even better. He’s coming along nicely. I would think he may get to play preseason with the first team in the summer.


----------



## Eye of Ra

The swede with iranian roots, Roony Bardjhi, had 1 goal and 1 assist for FCK today. The senior team that is.

Another swede doing good is Edwin Andersson. In 7 starts and 4 games as a sub he has 6 goals and 8 assists in Chelsea u19 team.


----------



## Evilo

Eye of Ra said:


> The swede with iranian roots, Roony Bardjhi, had 1 goal and 1 assist for FCK today. The senior team that is.



He's a 2005 !
I believe he's from Koweit though.


----------



## Eye of Ra

Evilo said:


> He's a 2005 !
> I believe he's from Koweit though.




just looked it up:


Citizenship: SwedenSyria
source from tranfsermarket


----------



## Evilo

Allright, probably read it wrongly in the article about him I read a week or so ago in prospect talk here in France.
His goal is supposed to be high quality shot from 20 meters.


----------



## Evilo

Though Syria isn't Iran


----------



## Eye of Ra

I misstoke him for Daleho Irandust, who is a swede-iranian.


----------



## Evilo

Do you have a video/gif of his goal?


----------



## Eye of Ra

Evilo said:


> Do you have a video/gif of his goal?




Svenske supertalangen blev historisk målskytt för FCK


----------



## Evilo

Thanks but not available outside Sweden unfortunately. And my VPN doesn't have swedish option.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Evilo

From every report I've read and videos I've watched (admittedly, highlights), the kid HAS BALL.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@cgf, I saw Malick Sanogo play a few times recently. Fast, athletic, powerful forward with a good left footed shot and good runs between the defenders. He needs to improve his decision making in possession. Hopefully he gets his first team debut soon in the Conference league or Pokal.


----------



## Ajacied

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> @Ajacied, Julian Rijkhoff scored five goals today for the U19’s. He has 15 goals in 18 games. He only starts about half of the games because the team is really good and he’s the only U17 player on the team, so his per minute goal numbers are even better. He’s coming along nicely. I would think he may get to play preseason with the first team in the summer.




Good to hear. Kid just knows how to score.


----------



## JimboA

Evilo said:


> He's a 2005 !
> I believe he's from Koweit though.



Roony is born in Kuwait, where his Syrian parents worked at the time, so you're not wrong! They then moved back to Syria (Aleppo) because of work permit issues. Then in 2012 they had to leave Aleppo for obvious reasons and ended up in Sweden.


----------



## Evilo

Ha that must be it. 
Have you watched the kid? 
If so what do you think?


----------



## JimboA

Evilo said:


> Ha that must be it.
> Have you watched the kid?
> If so what do you think?



I've known about Roony for maybe three years from when his local village team Rödeby beat many big clubs and almost won the Swedish championship. They also received some media attention in youth football because of maybe unconventional recruiting/selection methods for a club that small with players that young. Then I saw some highlights from Malmo and the talent was evident but I also thought he had a small physical advantage to his peers, so I was cautious.

When he moved to Copenhagen I followed him more closely and I've been watching some full games (mostly for Sweden '05). Something just happens when he gets the ball, it's hard to explain. I'm not an expert at judging talent at all but in this case it's so evident. It's the touch, ability to change tempo and direction quickly, flair, willingness to create... all these things. It's also been evident now when he plays against men that he still dares to do his thing and doesn't just play it safe. He also seems like a nice and calm kid based on interviews the past week. I'm very excited as a Swede, but also biased I should say!


----------



## Evilo

Thanks.
Yes, from what I've seen I love his attitude, and indeed, you expect anything when he has the ball... except what he does with it.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> @cgf, I saw Malick Sanogo play a few times recently. Fast, athletic, powerful forward with a good left footed shot and good runs between the defenders. He needs to improve his decision making in possession. Hopefully he gets his first team debut soon in the Conference league or Pokal.




With it all still to play for I dunno if we’ll see him in the CL or cup unless we start blowing teams out...


----------



## Evilo

Sofiane Diop ain't too shy...


----------



## Savant

Max Woltman debut cameo for Liverpool today. Couple years away but probably the best forward prospect at the team


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Savant said:


> Max Woltman debut cameo for Liverpool today. Couple years away but probably the best forward prospect at the team



I am not following LFC kids anymore but to me the best of the bunch has been Tyler Morton and Owen Beck based on performance with the first team.


----------



## KlausJopling

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Manchester United brought a kid from the Washington DC area, Kristian Fletcher, for a trial. He’s a 16 year old forward with a UK passport, so he could move there right now. I hear he’s very fast and good with his finishing, but he plays in a private school league, so it’s almost impossible to know if he’s any good because he plays awful competition. He supposedly has offers from a lot of big clubs.




Reports are he is signing with Dortmund


----------



## Bulbhead

It is difficult not to fall in love with Georginio Rutter, after his man of the match performance against Fürth (crappy team but still) he also scored against Frankfurt and gave the assist for today's late equalizer vs Leverkusen.


----------



## Evilo

I know! 
I love him. Great effort guy can pass, score, press, love the attitude!


----------



## John Pedro

@Duchene2MacKinnon


----------



## Evilo

El Chadaille Bitshiabu with his first pro minutes tonight. 2005 born.
Gherbi, Simmons and Michut with some playing time too.


----------



## Savant

Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty has been on trial with Liverpool and there is some noise they want to make a permanent move. Stay tuned.


----------



## Evilo

5 Ligue 1 players + Meslier and Lacroix.


----------



## gary69

Evilo said:


> 5 Ligue 1 players + Meslier and Lacroix.





Don't really understand how Meslier is there? He must have some really impressive stats. I haven't seen all the Leeds matches, but from the ones I've seen, he hasn't done many miracle saves, although there weren't many blunders either. I would have expected him to be at most quite average.

Also Lacroix was better last season, IMO.


----------



## Evilo

Yes I agree with both of your points.
I know U21 goalies are hard to find, but Lafont is having an exceptionnal season.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I thought I'd do an updated list of the best prospects at Borussia Dortmund. This is viewed as the best generation of youth players we've ever brought through. Time will tell how correct that is.

2003:

1. Bradley Fink-6'4 target forward. All this guy does is score goals. He has 23 goals in less than 1700 minutes this season. Also ten assists, so he can provide for teammates. He's been promoted permanently to the first team effective immediately. The worry is that he'll feel overshadowed by other young forwards at his position (Adeyemi, Moukoko, Rijkhoff), eventually choose to go elsewhere, and then outscore all these guys. He's talked about less because he's kind of lumbering and not as smooth, but the numbers speak for itself.

2. Soumaila Coulibaly-Big left-footed CB from France. About 6'3. Pretty athletic and good with the ball from what I've read. He joined in the summer, but has only returned from a long-term injury at the end of October. He's been playing mostly with the reserves since then. I think he'll continue to play with the reserves for the rest of the season. Maybe he gets a few minutes in the Cup or at least sits on the bench. I think he's one of two young CB's with a real shot at being part of the first team next season.

3. Goktan Gurpuz-He's a technically-based central midfielder. Known for his passing, ball control, and smoothness on the ball. He's not too bad against the ball either. He's been compared a little to Mo Dahoud. I think he's a little more of an offensive midfielder, but similar type of player. He's sat on the bench for the first team four times already, although yet to debut. I really don't see his role with the first team. His position is so crowded. Maybe if we sell Brandt in the summer there could be some time available, but thats 50/50, at best. He should at least be around for another season beyond 21/22. Him and his younger brother Gokdeniz recently signed extensions. We'll see. He may need to go elsewhere to get minutes. Potentially a loan.

4. Lion Semic-Offensive style RB. This guy is talented, but just always injured and it's not pointing in the right direction. His durability is often questioned, and physically he needs to improve. Even if he stays healthy, he may not have the defensive game and physicality yet for the Bundesliga, so best case may require a loan for him to adapt to pro football. I guess second team in 3. Bundesliga could accomplish that also. May have a chance because he's talented, but you do wonder if he's ever going to realize his potential.

5. Dennis Lutke-Frie-Versatile midfielder. Captains the U-19's. He's a very well liked player, can play almost anywhere. Very good technically. He's just overshadowed. Not as talented as some of his peers. May have a better chance of breaking through at another club. I do wonder if he ever gets a chance with the first team. I suspect he's going to be offered a spot in the U23's, but he could probably easily get a first team contract elsewhere in the Bundesliga.

6. Silas Ostrzinski-6'5 goalkeeper. This guy is a long-shot, but he has a few things working in his favor. He's doing pretty well. He's recently wrestled the starting spot with the U19's away from a more highly rated keeper. He also sat on the bench recently for the first team showing that he's rated within the club. He's listed at 6'5, but I've read he may be 6'6 or 6'7. Goalies almost never get to play straight from the academy for big clubs, so I doubt he'll even ever play for the first team, but he's not a player I'd rule out as becoming a good player.

2004:

1. Jamie Bynoe-Gittens-He's been termed since he got to Dortmund as the Sancho replacement. There are a lot of similarities. He's a winger from the London area that came from Man City's academy as a very highly rated England youth international. I think Bynoe-Gittens may be more naturally talented, which is scary to think, considering how talented Sancho is. Gittens is bigger and more athletic than Sancho with the same sorts of skills and technique. His only problem has been ability to stay healthy. When he's healthy, he walks the competition. He's been fit the last few months, and done extremely well. He was promoted with immediate effect to the first team. We need wingers badly. He's probably our best youth player and we're waiting for him to make an impact. Doesn't seem inconceivable that he could force himself into regular minutes by the end of this season or early next season.

2. Youssoufa Moukoko-Everyone knows about Moukoko by now. It's impossible to follow football, and not have heard about him. I've described him before as a taller and faster Aguero. He's not some hulking striker like Haaland or incredible sprinter like Mbappe. He's more prolific with his finishing, and quality in most areas of the game. Thats why it may have been unrealistic to expect him to deliver on the hype, but the hype is what it is. He's gotten some first team minutes in the last 14 months, but has largely struggled for minutes and isn't really showing more than some occasional flashes of nice play. I think he could be loaned out in the summer. Let's see what happens.

3. Nnamdi Collins-If it wasn't for Moukoko, he would probably have been the most hyped Dortmund academy product in a long time, considering players like Collins, Sancho, Bellingham, Reyna, Pulisic, weren't really Dortmund academy products. Collins is a CB that has been with the club since he was 12. There are big hopes that he can break into the first team. He's a very talented CB. Kind of like an Akanji type of CB that is athletic, good defensively, and can pass the ball. He's only 17, so it may take some more time before he debuts for the first team, but he is supposed to join the first team on a regular basis in the summer. He already has a first team contract, but he plays with the U19's.

4. Tom Rothe-I could've went in a few different directions for this 4th spot, but Rothe has been the big development so far this season in the academy. He has been excellent as a new signing to play LB from St. Pauli, and a lot of people are calling for him to get a shot to fill the first team holes at LB. He's only 17, so that may be unrealistic, but he's a 6'4 LB with attacking skills and quality defensive play.

5. Abdoulaye Kamara-Like Coulibaly, Kamara is a signing from PSG. Kamara is a defensive midfielder. He's rated as a complete midfielder, and could eventually make his way through to our first team, especially once we clear out some players like Witsel and Can. He's split time between the U19's and U23's, but I think he's probably at least a year away from the first team, if he ever makes it.

6. Sammy Bamba-Bamba was the big talking point very early in the season. He already has 13 assists this season, and he's missed about the last two months due to injury. When Gittens was injured, some were talking about Bamba potentially being a better winger than Gittens, and now the reverse has happened with Bamba injured. I think on balance Bamba isn't as good, but he is still pretty good, and I feel like next season he's going to make a claim for a first team place. He's talked about as a great dribbler, fast, good set-up guy, as evidenced by 13 assists in less than 1300 minutes so far this season. Probably a year away from the first team, but a year from now I think he could be promoted.

7. Faroukou Cisse-This guy is a talented CB with good athleticism that is a season or two away from the first team, if he eventually makes it. He would be talked up more if he wasn't always playing in the shadow of Collins, but he does, so it's a tough situation. He's a German youth international that was signed from Leverkusen a few years ago. He's played CB, RB, LB, even as a wide midfielder this season. His game is going to need some further development, as he can make some defensive errors.

8. Vasco Walz-He's a smaller CM, but plays quite strong. He's been compared before to Kimmich, although he will not be as good. He hasn't played as much this season because the U19's are incredibly strong, and he's one of the youngest guys on the team. Next season he should be an important player, and let's see what he can do. He's quite highly rated. A lot of the top Italian teams have tried to sign him and he's a German youth international.

9. Marian Kirsch-6'4 keeper signed in the summer that is highly rated. He was the starter for most of this season. He's recently lost his place, but thats not too atypical and young goalies go through dips in form. Another German youth international. Like most goal-keepers, he probably has little chance of breaking through at a top club through the academy.

2005:

I won't speak that much about this group. It's viewed as weaker and I don't know the players too well, but I will make briefer mentions.

1. Julian Rijkhoff-The best player we have right now in this age group. He's the only 2005 born player that plays in the U19's. He has 17 goals in a little over 1100 minutes. Big-time goal scorer. Signed away from Ajax. Not known for any exceptional skill other than he scores a lot of goals. He has done so against older competition. There's a long line for minutes for young strikers at the club. I think he may have a chance to make 2022/23 preseason with the first team and then a promotion a year from now. However, it may take longer due to the number of quality young strikers at the club.

Others to know: Jaden Korzynietz, Rafael Lubach, Vincenzo Onofrietti


----------



## John Pedro

Ridiculous, ridiculous talent

Endrick is just 15 years old, and is already one of the best u20 in Brazil. He helped his team won u20 Sao Paulo state championship last season

Pace, creativity, strenght, great shot... kid has got it all

scored this beauty in his debut in the Copinha (biggest u20 tourney in South America). He ended the game with 2 goals.


his second of the game


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bayern debuted Lucas Copado and Paul Wanner today. Copado turns 18 in a few days. Wanner turned 16 last month. Wanner is the second youngest Bundesliga player ever.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Bayern debuted Lucas Copado and Paul Wanner today. Copado turns 18 in a few days. Wanner turned 16 last month. Wanner is the second youngest Bundesliga player ever.




Wanner had some nifty moments after coming on; including a really nice pass that could've turned into a goal if Sommer wasn't so locked in.


----------



## John Pedro

Endrick is insane, just scored a absurd goal as soon as I can get a video I'll link here



slightly better quality


----------



## John Pedro

Scored again, this one a little less amazing but still nice


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

The two youngest to ever play for Birmingham City.


----------



## cgf

After Moukoko & Wanner, Raebiger became the third youngest BuLi player:


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich




----------



## Evilo

Number of U21 players used this season.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Number of U21 players used this season.




I have 8 from Arsenal as well, unless they're only counting the league.

Patino, Saka, ESR, Tavares, Balogun, Martinelli, Lokonga, and Nelson. The latter two are 22 but were 21 at the beginning of the season


----------



## John Pedro

wrong thread


----------



## Evilo

OK, I'll start my U21 french prospects roundup looking at 5 teams at a time.
Tonight, the 5 youngest rosters : Rennes, Nice, OM, Monaco and Reims

Rennes (usually best academy in France along with Lyon) :
Mathys Tel : unreal talent, every big team wanted him as a youngster and he chose Rennes because of their academy. Can play everywhere, CB, MF, either wing or striker. He seems to play wing right now and his he has great ability in front of goal. Youngest player ever to play for Rennes at 16, before Camavinga. Has played in Europe too.
Lesley Ugochukwu : I'm a huge fan. Guy seems extremely mature on the ball, great passer and positionning. Is playing 6. Comparisons to Camavinga are valid. Less dynamic and technical, but extremely poised. Reminds me of young M'Vila who was a total phenom but hopefully he has a better head.
Laoum Tchaouna : highly hyped winger/striker. So far, he has shown a few glimpses. Powerful and quick.
Dragan Almdar (TUR) : very nice goalie prospect. He has played very well when he had the chance to do so. I expect him to become #1 very soon.
Kamaldeen Sulemana (GHA) : monstruous talent. Imagine Doku, but IMO slighty better because he'll have more end product. Plays both wings
Adrien Truffert : former LW now LB, excellent going forward, but he has suprised me with big progress defensively. Now a legit option for the NT.
Lorenz Assignon : young RB with zero shyness. Seems to go for it everytime he has the chance. I still have to see more of him.
Loic Bade : top CB, among the best in L1 last year with Lens. A bit more tentative this year, but still a very good prospect.

Monaco :
Chrislain Matsima : very intriguing CB. Lots of potential. I need to see more of him.
Eliot Matazo (BEL) : explosive box to box MF. Kovac played him last year and he was GREAT. Less so this year.
Vanderson : haven't seen him play, but supposedly excellent RB going forward.
Pavlovic (SER) : Shaky CB so far. Lots of potential, but has to get better.
Badiashile : A guy who is rated a lot because of his size and potential, but makes too many mistakes at CB IMO. Not a personnal fan.
Boadu (NED) : total letdown so far. I expected much better. We'll see down the road.
Diop : was absolutely great last year. Struggles a bit this year with defenses keying on him. Still top winger/AM, creates plays from nothing. Can score and pass.
Tchouameni : world class CM. Not much else to say. He had potential but seemed a bit lost after his transfer. Turned into a total monster last year. Now NT fixture.

Reims :
Ekitike : 8G+3A in less than 900 minutes played. On a team where he wasn't supposed to play much. Guy has a knack for being well positionned. He is extremely poised in front of goal. Calm and collected, he rarely makes mistakes. Tall, he can beat anyone with various different weapons. High potential. Newcastle just made a 38M€ offer for him.
Mbuku : well known winger who has had a bit of trouble on this Reims team. Big talent, needs to settle down.
Toure (CIV) : huge potential but has disappointed. Not sure he has enough brains. Still a very talented striker.
Lopy (SEN) : highly rated DM. IMO not that big of a potential.

Nice :
Da Cunha : former Rennes graduate, very interesting winger/AM. Has potential to be a very good L1 player.
Daniliuc (AUT) : very solid and interesting CB.
Thuram : has surpised me with some very solid progressive play from the young DM. Better passer than I thought.
Bard : Strong fearless LB. Has some progress to make, but a solid player.
Gouiri : Class in every aspect. Can dribble through everyone, presses for 90 minutes, can pass like the best, can score from anywhere. We have see only the surface of his potential. He has clearly WC potential. Can play striker or inside LW. Uses both feet. Is money on PK and excellent on FK.

Marseille :
Bertelli : very hyped MF, called up in NT youth selections. Has high potential according to various reports. Haven't seen him enough to say.
S. Ben Seghir : Former Nice darling prospect, has moved on a free to OM. Very interesting striker who could probably already play if Dieng hadn't exploded.
Luis Henrique (BRA) : Talented, but very shy winger. Has been tried at striker with zero success. So far he's been a disappointment.
De la Fuente (USA) : lots of natural talent, he can unbalance a defense on a dime. But a winger with zero end product has a lot of work to do. Big potential still.
Saliba : Was world class for most of the season. Absolutely amazing. OM has the best defense in the league and that's all on him. He leads the defense perfectly and makes the ball progress. His number of passes in the OPPOSING last 30 is insane for a CB. And not just 3 meter passes. Some leadership skills too. He's the boss.
Dieng (SEN) : Started with a bang. Has been either absolutely dreadful or amazing. No inbetween. I think the guy is overachieving. If Newcastle really wants him for big money, OM should sell him.


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> I have 8 from Arsenal as well, unless they're only counting the league.
> 
> Patino, Saka, ESR, Tavares, Balogun, Martinelli, Lokonga, and Nelson. The latter two are 22 but were 21 at the beginning of the season



They are only counting the league.


----------



## Evilo

Next 5 youngest rosters : Saint Etienne, Lille, Montpellier, Lens and Brest

St Etienne :
Gourna-Douath : very hyped DM, big work rate. Can't say I've rated him as much as other people. Is considered a major selling piece for St Etienne.
Aouchiche : PSG transfer was a big signing, but has disappointed so far, on a disappointing team. I still rate him highly, he's IMO a victim of his environement on the pitch. Aouchiche is a 8/10 who's forte is IQ. He can score impressively as he's shown at the U18 WC. If Sainte is relegated, he's a very good purchase.
Rivera : very hyped young striker, but has barely played. He can play RW. Tough to judge until he gets a real chance. Maybe in L2.
Bajic : One of the best goalie of his generation, but blocked by Green and Bernardoni now. He's IMO already good enough to start in L1 (as his L1 games have shown).
Green (ENG) : an english guy named ETIENNE GREEN because his father was a St Etienne fan (and they're called the GREEN), what a story. He was incredible when he was given a chance by a mere coincidence (starter injured and Bajic got injured too). Never looked back. For some reason St Etienne has just brought an experienced goalie in Bernardoni. Green was never a problem, but on the contrary one of the best players of his team.

Lille :
Lihadji : one of the best pure talents of his generation, he can dribble anyone. Very similar to Coman IMO.
Onana (BEL) : He's made a nice impact when he came on in different games. Physically powerful CM and likes to break lines. Intriguing.
Gomes (ENG) : talented but frail and frustrating winger. Lack of end result. With Ikone gone, he should see more games. Or maybe Lihadji will.
Djalo (POR) : CB who's made some strides. From a bit of a goofy CB/LB/RB, he has become very steady, probably thanks to Fonte's influence. We'll see if he continues.
Weah (USA) : decent player on the wing or striker, but someone who won't lead the line IMO.
David (CAN) : as I said when he arrived and struggled, the fact he was always in the good spot was a good sign that things would turn around with a little less pressure on himself. Guy is a work horse and is finally finishing his plays. Still not the most natural finisher, but he makes up for it by IQ and effort (Cavani without the aerial prowess).
Botman (HOL) : Steady as it came when he arrived, he has struggled a bit more since. Still a big guy, leader, smart and physical. A lot to like. And they got him for peanuts.

Montpellier :
Wahi : very interesting striker, but a bit of a headcase. Thrown out of Caen's academy. If he gets his act together, he has tons of potential.
Chotard : I love this guy. DM who can pass like few DMs can, great motor, great presser, high IQ. Is a starter for more than a year even though he's a 2001.

Lens :
Kalimuendo : nice strong stiker, on loan from PSG. Is rather small but strong on his feet. Can really be a useful player in terms of linkup play and finishing. If you play with players around him, his off the ball movement and one touch 1/2 can kill any defense. Probably not good enough to start for PSG, but can start for many teams or be a very good backup for Paris.
Wooh : supposed to take Bade's spot, but that might take a bit of time. He's an excellent CB prospect from Nancy. Tons of potential.
Costa (POR) : A smart winger/AM who presses well (obviously since it's Lens here) and plays with good IQ.

Brest :
Agoume : Big CM, on loan from Inter, Sochaux academy. Guy is a natural leader and is a big body who can tackle, resist press and break lines. His move to Inter was too soon.


----------



## Evilo

Next 5 youngest rosters : Bordeaux, Metz, Lyon, Lorient and PSG

Bordeaux : 
Pembele : on loan from PSG, RB/CB. I found him tentative with PSG, but boy is he all in at Bordeaux. Guy is not shy on anything. He dribbles, he shoots, he crosses, he has had some very very good games at RB. He'd be a perfect backup at PSG for Hakimi.
Mara : son of a TV anchor, Mara had some really interesting games at striker. But he has now been excluded from the group, possibly with behavior problems.
Traore : supposed to be the next big think in Bordeaux's academy. RW with speed and technique, but I need to see more of him.
Adli : former PSG prospect, moved to Bordeaux and had a couple of average season. He has absolutely taken off since mid season last year. He's been GREAT and his move to Milan is agreed (he's on loan at Bordeaux). He creates danger, has shown excellent leadership qualities. I hope he doesn't take 2 years to settle in Milan.
Onana (CAM) : DM with strong physical qualities and can take over some games from time to time. Very intriguing.

Metz :
Lacroix : Super hyped CB as a 16 year old. Had some proposals from every single big team in Europe before he decided to turn pro with Metz. His hype has diminished a bit but still huge potential. Hasn't played this season with the A team. You have got to wonder why when you see how the starters suck.
Sarr : wonder kid when he joined last january. Metz sold him to Spurs but got him on loan. Has been less effective this year, but he's on an awful team.
Joseph : haven't seen him except for highlights, but lots of people are raving about him.

Lyon :
El Arouch : new gem. Fabulous 8, technically super gifted, with great IQ and passing ability. Can't wait to see him in L1.
Cherki : what can I say about this guy? He's perhaps already one of the best dribblers in the whole world, of any age. Quick, agile, great passing ability, can finish decently. So, what's the problem? Well, his best position is 9 1/2 and Lyon has one of the best 9 1/2 in the world in Paqueta. Wing hasn't been convincing because he doesn't cover defensively enough. But who would say that about Messi, Mbappe or the other super huge technical talents. Sure, he has a long way to go before being compared to these guys, but wasting this guy's energy on defensive covers when he's just an amazing weapon on the other side of the pitch is unforgivable. He might bust. But his talent is crazy.
Gusto : best RB prospect I've seen in a LONG time. I'd say decades when it comes to french football. He's a former MF changed into a multi-dimensionnal RB. He's electric, technically gifted, can cross, press, tackle. Total package.
Lukeba : uber technically gifted CB. Plays like few CBs do, moving forward and dribbling. Has a lot to learn in defensive situations, but if he progresses there, he could be an extremely interesting player.
Diomande (CIV) : Very good CB who should become a decent club player.
Caqueret : well known now, ultra high level presser, technically very sound, good passer, extremely high IQ. Plays like he's physically strong even though he isn't. I'd take him on ANY single team in the world without hesitation.

Lorient :
Le Fee : Technically gifted, high work rate 8/10. I like him a lot, but this guy needs to get out of Lorient ASAP. Reminds me of Montpellier's Morgan Sanson (before he killed his career in Marseille).

PSG :
Zaire-Emery : OK, this one isn't known much YET among fans. But I can tell you scouts DO know him. BIG TIME. This guy plays 6, but he's like the QB. Whenever he doesn't play, his team isn't the same. Super resistant to any pressing (with mutiple guys), his passing is perfect. He's the future of the 6s out there. He's negociating with PSG to sign pro, but he has offers from every single big team in Europe.
Bitshiabu : THE phenom. This is where you see how FM rates players without even looking at them. Kid is already 1.98m tall, so they rated him high in strength, header, etc... and made him slow and not technical. YES, El Chadaille is huge. YET, right now, that's where he needs to work : use his size and his body to his advantage. The reason El Chadaille is so special is because few players pass like him at ANY POSITION. He's just like a crazy passer. PSG coaches try to tone it down because he takes too many risks with his passes. Or at least they think they will be too risk in L1. He's the youngest PSG player ever. He just moves his team forward, passing, dribbling, resisting press. He plays like a Verratti at the back sometimes. Except he's HUGE.
Simons (HOL) : From a 6 to an 8 and now 10 or wing. Simons has made some strides, and plays bigger than he is. He's about to get his chance with the big team. Finally. If he doesn't get his chance, he'll leave next summer.
Michut : A very nice young 8/10, Michut is also seeing first time football and he got an assist in his last game. He's smart and good technically.
Mendes (POR) : explosive LB, with incredible acceleration. But he has tons of progress to make defensively. Woud love him and Hakimi in a 3-4-3. But Poch is too dumb to see it.
Dina Ebime : Very surprised by this guy. Every time he plays, he's efficient. Came out of nowhere to get some playing time in front of the Simons or Michut. And has made up the most of it.


----------



## Evilo

Last 5 teams : Nantes, Clermont, Angers, Troyes and Strasbourg

Nantes :
Merlin : a gifted LW turned into a LB, he is shaping up to be quite the player. First L1 minutes were really impressive in his new position. High crossing quality.
Manvelyan : quite proud of the guy. He's a former student of mine and a really exciting 9 1/2. Considered a very interesting prospect in France, it is not known if he'll play for France or Armenia.
Geubbels : former superhyped prospect, Monaco bought him from Lyon for a fortune. Then he got injured and injured and injured, played a few games, got injured. Crazy. He was loaned to Nantes and he's performing decently so far. Don't think he'll ever reach his former status though. Can play up front on either side or in center.

Clermont :
-

Angers :
Cho : Dual citizen (french-english), this guy has changed teams all the time. PSG, Everton, Angers... probably germany next. He started some games at 16 at RW for Angers and has played more centrally at times. Very exciting prospect. Not enough end product yet, but you can see the huge potential.
Mendy : Batista Mendy was thrown out of Nantes youth teams because he never got a chance. Big miss since he's doing very well for Angers. DM with a lot of activity. Decent potential, no more.

Troyes :
Metinho : hasn't played yet, but a hyped prospect from Brazil.
Kabore : RB, on loan from City. Intriguing talent.

Strasbourg :
Diarra : son of a former player, Diarra is really hyped among prospect experts. I haven't seen him play, but he' son my radar.


----------



## Evilo

Now that you have the whole list, you can start your FM games and have fun.
But, a few summaries before :
If you're looking for 20-21 year old who could transfer and explode in a big league given his huge potential, think Gouiri, Saliba, Ekitike, Tchouameni, David, Botman, Adli, Caqueret, Simons, Mendes.
If you're looking at younger players, roughly 18, these are the guys who are already considered as potential huge players and playing regularly, Cherki, Cho, Ugochukwu, Mbuku, Chotard, Sarr, Gusto.
If you're looking at potential future stars not yet L1 regulars, Tel, Bitshiabu, Zaire-Emery, Lihadji, El Arouch.

Of course, some of those players will flop. Others not named might shine more than expected. This is just a roundup as of now. We know some players develop early and others later.

But as of now, out of ALL these players, if I had to pick 10 of them it would be : Gouiri, Saliba, Tchouameni, Caqueret, Cherki, Cho, Tel, Bitshiabu, Zaire-Emery, El Arouch.
And if I had to rank those 11 in terms of potential :
1- Bitshiabu
2- Cherki
3- Saliba
4- Tel
5- El Arouch
6- Gouiri
7- Zaire-Emery
8- Tchouameni
9- Cho
10- Caqueret

So I guess that's my top 10.


----------



## gary69

In your last post, you said "as of now", have not seen much of some of those in top10 (numbers 4,5,7 and 9), so I might be wrong, but I'd still buy Botman over those if I was a bigger/PL club looking for a central defender for the next 5+ years.


----------



## Evilo

Yes I meant that "as of now" as "if I had to pick 10 to acquire for my team".
I did list Botman in the "ready to contribute now" list.


----------



## gary69

Evilo said:


> Yes I meant that "as of now" as "if I had to pick 10 to acquire for my team".
> I did list Botman in the "ready to contribute now" list.




Ah, so I just thought you meant contribute right now. As guys like Cherki, Gouiri, Saliba, Caqueret, Tchouameni would be able to contribute right now for most teams.


----------



## Evilo

gary69 said:


> Ah, so I just thought you meant contribute right now. As guys like Cherki, Gouiri, Saliba, Caqueret, Tchouameni would be able to contribute right now for most teams.



I listed all of those as able to contribute right now among 20 year old. Cherki in the 18 year old.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon




----------



## John Pedro

This kid is insane. Best BR prospect since Neymar, hands down


----------



## John Pedro

While Copinha is still going, that's a good list although I'd have Caioba (FW/ST also from São Paulo FC) instead of Pedrinho (wasn't been as good as expected and missed a game due to injury). At the end of the cup, I will try to make a tournament top 5


----------



## spintheblackcircle

n/m


----------



## les Habs

I know it’s not the transfers thread, but I read that Barca had a Brazilian scout scouting Endrick today.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I hope he’s better than the last guy that went for huge money, Reinier. I was fooled also. Reinier looked excellent for the Selecao Youth squads. Comes to Dortmund and his dad makes more headlines in the media than Reinier does on the field. He can’t even make the squad and I’m pretty sure Real Madrid hasn’t recalled him from the loan because they don’t want to pay his wages.


----------



## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I hope he’s better than the last guy that went for huge money, Reinier. I was fooled also. Reinier looked excellent for the Selecao Youth squads. Comes to Dortmund and his dad makes more headlines in the media than Reinier does on the field. He can’t even make the squad and I’m pretty sure Real Madrid hasn’t recalled him from the loan because they don’t want to pay his wages.




Whole new level of talent

Endrick is doing at 15y what Vinicius Jr did at 16

still gotta see him against pros, though.

Reinier is a bit of tweener like a power forward that isn't big enought to defend at his position nor fast enough to guard SFs. Ideally, he would be a CF but he's spent his whole career at AM.

tomorrow will be Endrick's biggest test so far in Copinha. Sao Paulo vs Palmeiras, semifinals. Probably the two best sides in the tournament, huge state rivalry, full stadium with only Sao Paulo's fans (classicos in SP state are all one-sided fan only because of past fighting history). Sao Paulo's defense is a bit slow, so he still has a nice matchup.


----------



## cgf

Wanner getting subbed on again. Looks like the 16yo may have made the jump for good & won Nagelsmann's trust.

...what's craziest is that Ibrahimovich might have even more hype than Wanner on the Bayern campus.


----------



## JimboA

FC Copenhagen have already made a little documentary on Roony Bardghji:


----------



## John Pedro

Palmeiras won the Copinha beating Santos 4-0 in the final after beating Sao Paulo 1-0 in the sames (Endrick played just the final 15min way after the game became an attack vs defense drill). The final match was over after just 30min, Santos side just isn't in the same tier. Endrick scored the opening goal. He fineshed with 6 gols, and was elected MVP and had one of his goals named best of the tournament


----------



## ecemleafs

Ben Doak made his debut for Celtic today. only turned 16 a couple of months ago. looks pacy and stocky. solid performance off the bench. played mostly as a RW.


----------



## Evilo

The systematic give and go by Jens Cajuste, very similar to Guendouzi in that regard.


----------



## JimboA

JimboA said:


> FC Copenhagen have already made a little documentary on Roony Bardghji:



First episode here with English subtitles:


----------



## John Pedro

Matheus Nascimento, 17y old striker from Botafogo. Brazilian Cavani!!


----------



## Eye of Ra

Evilo said:


> The systematic give and go by Jens Cajuste, very similar to Guendouzi in that regard.





and yet swedish coach chooses albin ekdal and kristofer olsson over him


----------



## AB13

Eye of Ra said:


> and yet swedish coach chooses albin ekdal and kristofer olsson over him



Albin Ekdal is still better than Cajuste in the role he plays. Ekdal is one of our better players almost every game. Svanberg is the one who should be playing over Olsson for now. Cajuste will replace Ekdal in the future.


----------



## gary69

Chelsea got trashed 5-1 in the UEFA Youth League. Genk's 18-year old Tanzanian Kelvin John was impressive as speedy wide forward providing several assists to his big center forward and others. Apparently he is good at the CF position as well, as he has a good scoring record for Tanazania's youth national teams (he has two senior caps too).


----------



## Jussi




----------



## cgf

Jussi said:


>





I feel like the biggest surprise was that the ref gave him a second yellow for that instead of just a straight red. No way a player escapes a booking for behavior that brazen.


----------



## cgf

The Austrian FA is making a big push to convince the Dornbirn-born Paul Wanner, whose mother is austrian, to represent them. Would be a big loss even though we have a lot of talent in the attack coming through right now. The 16yo is on the cusp of being promoted to our u21 team.


----------



## Savant

@Evilo 

happened to come across this thread and thought of you. Or that this was you


----------



## Evilo

Haven't watched much L2 so not me.
I know there's a Dutch guy in Toulouse who's tearing the league apart. 8 goals and 17 assists as a CM. Van den Boomen.


----------



## Evilo

However, looking at the thread in question I do know one of those through youth national team games :
Lepenant (Caen, 2002) : very exciting CM. Not Caqueret good but similar in playing style. I feel like he could start for many L1 teams.
They could have added Restes, goalie from Toulouse, very exciting prospect but he hasn't played in L2 yet.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Haven't watched much L2 so not me.
> I know there's a Dutch guy in Toulouse who's tearing the league apart. 8 goals and 17 assists as a CM. Van den Boomen.



Van den Boomen is a great name for an attacker


----------



## Power Man

Future legend incoming

Also IIRC Messi is his godfather


----------



## Savi

Ajax have officially signed Rayane Bounida from Anderlecht



16 year old attacking midfielder and probably Belgium's top U18 prospect
Has amazing skills although there are slight concerns about his growth, for a 16 year old he is really very diminutive. Maybe needs the Messi treatment 
All of Europe top clubs have been tracking him for years but he only wanted to go to Ajax because he's good friends with the Nouri family


----------



## Evilo

Evilo said:


> Haven't watched much L2 so not me.
> I know there's a Dutch guy in Toulouse who's tearing the league apart. 8 goals and 17 assists as a CM. Van den Boomen.



9 goals now.


----------



## Eye of Ra

Evilo said:


> 9 goals now.





do you think any ligue 1 team will buy him?


----------



## Evilo

He's probably leaving this summer because he has one year left.
He's a very interesting player at this point.
Imagine a DM scoring and assisting that much while doing a very good job defensively.


----------



## AnythingCanHappenLOL

Yes


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Savant

__

16 years old. Already getting first team minutes for Celtic. Seems like they are trying to do the Harvey Elliott signing again. Can’t say I’ve seen him play, think we are least used to have Scottish folks on here though.


----------



## Evilo

Evilo said:


> 9 goals now.




Another one tonight. Make that 10.


----------



## cgf

Amyn's brace from the weekend in Liga 3:






I haven't watched any of his club matches this season, but he really impressed me with the u19s. Not superhyped, but he's so combative for his size and his feet are so damn quick. If he has the work ethic to grow himself some Messi-thighs to compensate for his size, the sky is the limit.


----------



## gary69

Yesterday in the UEFA youth league Juventus rather easily beat Liverpool. 

Most impressive for Juve was their 18-year old Benin wide forward Ange Josue Chibozo. In the first half he abused Liverpool players with his speed on the left flank and then in the 2nd half he played more centrally and scored the second goal. Besides his great speed, he also looked good finding space to get a shot off. Not really sure about his technique and other qualities yet. Probably too small to ever play a forward in a central position, but should be fine on wider attacking positions. All in all, he has 3 goals and 3 assists in 7 UEFA youth league matches and 10 goals in 20 Primavera matches.

Argentinian Matias Soule made a clever backheel pass for the first Juve goal.


----------



## Eye of Ra

Ronny Bardghji made it to Swedish u-21 NT!









16-årige Roony Bardghji med i U21-truppen


Nya U21-förbundskaptenen Jens Gustafsson har tagit ut sin första trupp till EM-kvalet. Totalt är 21 spelare kallade till matchen mot Irland i Borås 29 mars. För två spelare blir det den allra första U21-samlingen: Isak Jansson samt 16-årige Roony Bardghji.




www.svenskfotboll.se





Should start already imo.

Sarr
Abraham/Nanansi/Al Hajj - Wålemark - Bardghji
Gigovic - Bilal
Kahl - Ousou - Vagic - Holm
Brolin

Elanga could play, but made it to Swedish senior NT.


----------



## Evilo

No Cajuste?


----------



## Eye of Ra

Evilo said:


> No Cajuste?



He is injured? He is already lock for the senior NT anyways.


----------



## Evilo

Oh yes, true.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Evilo

Sick.


----------



## Evilo

Some guys like Ekitike, Cho, W. Fofana or Manu Kone aren't even here. Would be first names on most U21 NT.


----------



## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


> Some guys like Ekitike, Cho, W. Fofana or Manu Kone aren't even here. Would be first names on most U21 NT.



This is garbage. What sort of cheat code did France get and why won’t they share?


----------



## Evilo

Cho, Michut and Wahi will all play with the U19


----------



## Evilo

Evilo said:


> Another one tonight. Make that 10.



And 2 more, make that 12. Completely crazy. I need to watch L2 just for him.


----------



## Fulham

Luke Harris is the next Fulham academy gem. Plays like Lampard. At 16 he was the best player on the U18 and U23 team this year; both of which won their leagues.


----------



## Savant




----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Not sure if he's a good prospect or not, but Spurs have a kid called Dante Cassanova. With that name I hope he makes it big.


----------



## cgf

After almost giving away a 1-0 lead, our U19s managed to rescue a point against Italy in qualification for the U19 EM thanks to an 88th minute goal from their captain, Torben Rhein. 

Like Kimmich-classic, Kimmich-mini had his season badly disrupted by complications related to covid, and he's only been back in action for the past few weeks...but when their EM hopes seemed to be dead on arrival against our bogeyteam, the little SOB came through.


----------



## robertmac43

Kone made his CMNT debut last night. Was out for the final 12ish minutes + added time. Incredibly poised debut, he looks like a mature midfielder, not a 19-year-old. He was beating defenders, spraying the ball around the pitch, and was an effective presser.

Incredibly excited to see where this kid goes. He's at Montreal this MLS season but my guess is a club in Europe invests in him by the end of the season. Another big prospect coming out of the north!


----------



## Savant

17 year old Andreas Schjelderup turns down move to LFC academy to stay in Denmark. LFC will continue to keep tabs.


----------



## Evilo

Drafted him in my keeper league.


----------



## cgf

Latvia's Dario Šits looks like an interesting talent for the Lavians against our U21s.


We ended up winning 4-0 after a brace from Burkardt. I'm still not sure Thielmann / Leweling / Shuranov / Knauff have senior team futures, but they can be dangerous at this level and I do feel like one of them is likely to make it to that level...though I could not tell you which one it'll be...

Loved the midfield for us in this one though; Stiller & Krauß are a really good partnership and I could see one of them starting for us when Kimmich & LeGo start slowing down. Burkardt has been fantastic in deeper & more central roles this season...really giving life to the Müller 2.0 comps...and Tillman continues to be a very interesting talent that I'm just not sure what to do with.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Drafted him in my keeper league.



Schjelderup? I don’t know anything about him but figured someone on here would. Is he half French or something ?


----------



## Savant

LFC looking like they are getting Ben Doak from Celtic, and Rory Wilson from Rangers. Doak looks more likely. Manc teams also interested in Wilson. Doak is a winger. Wilson is a striker.


----------



## Evilo

Savant said:


> Schjelderup? I don’t know anything about him but figured someone on here would. Is he half French or something ?



Nope, but I love what I've seen from him.


----------



## Evilo

Savant said:


> Schjelderup? I don’t know anything about him but figured someone on here would. Is he half French or something ?



Nope, but I love what I've seen from him.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Nope, but I love what I've seen from him.



If you like him he must be a #10 with a good feet for dribbling.


----------



## Evilo

Yes, and excellent vision and passing.


----------



## cgf

Bischof with a brace & Ibrahimovic grabbing a goal for our u17s. There’s a ton of attacking talent in that age group.


----------



## cgf

U19s picked up another 2-2 against one of our top rivals for the group. This time blowing a 2-0 lead late to Belgium with goals in the 85th & 89th minutes. Hope the kids learn from this, if they take care of business against the Finns, they can still progress.


----------



## luiginb

There's this kid out of a country not well known for its football, Mauritania, called Lekweiri. Saw some highlights of some games he played as a 15 yo against U20 competition where he was quite enchanting. Central midfielder with great vision and amazing passing and work rate. Now he's 16 and already started for his country's national team.


----------



## Islesfan22

Josko Gvardiol comes from the famed Dinamo Zagreb academy playing currently for Red Bull Leipzig. One of the best defenders in the Bundesliga at 20. Won’t be long before a big club buys him. His value on transfer market in 33 million euros


----------



## Power Man

No pressure


----------



## cgf

lol our U19s qualification campaign really turned south in a hurry. After blowing a 2-0 lead in the final 5 minutes against the Belgians, they lost to the finns 0-1 today 

Without Burkardt the U21s struggled more against Israel, only winning 1-0; while the U17s continue to just plow through teams.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Kallum Cesay, Spurs academy player, made his international debut for Sierra Leone and managed to score two goals against Kongo.


----------



## Savant




----------



## Savant

Abdul Fatawu Issahaku é Leão


Abdul Fatawu Issahaku, de 18 anos, é reforço do Sporting Clube de Portugal. O futebolista oriundo do Gana assinou por cinco épocas e tem uma cláusula de rescisão de 60 milhões de euros, tendo sido apresentado esta quarta-feira na Academia Cristiano Ronaldo, em Alcochete. Depois de oficializar o...




www.sporting.pt


----------



## Savant




----------



## Evilo

Since I know some of you are intrigued by L2 prospects :


----------



## Savant




----------



## robertmac43

In case anyone wants to watch something while working. It's UEFA Youth League finals right now; 









UEFA.tv


Always Football. Always On. Register for free to watch live streaming of UEFA’s Youth, Women’s and Futsal competitions, highlights, classic matches, live UEFA draw coverage and much more.




www.uefa.tv


----------



## robertmac43

Araujo and Neto looking insane for Benfica right now


----------



## gary69

Benfica with a record 6-0 win in the final, center forward Henrique Araujo completed his hat trick with a late penalty.


----------



## robertmac43

gary69 said:


> Benfica with a record 6-0 win in the final, center forward Henrique Araujo completed his hat trick with a late penalty.



Showed some great skill on the ball in his second goal too. I was also impressed with Neto's abilities. Drove play and delivered some great balls.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

JBG and Rothe both scored for the first team today in a charity match against Dynamo Kyiv. I’m very excited to see what they can do the rest of the season and then next season. We badly need all the help we can get from a winger and left back, so they should have a good chance to earn starting roles if they continue to perform.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

United fans, Kobbie Mainoo. That guy is going to be really good. He’s like a young Bellingham.


----------



## Venkman

Mainoo does look very good. Great balance, dribbling and passing. Just turned 17.

United u18s are in the FA Youth Cup Final against Forest. Some good players in that team. Dan Gore is another CM, LW Alejandro Garnacho, CF Charlie McNeil and Isak Hansen-Aaroen.


----------



## les Habs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> United fans, Kobbie Mainoo. That guy is going to be really good. He’s like a young Bellingham.




I picked up in our keeper league a couple of days before your post. Reminds me a bit of Pogba,


Venkman said:


> Mainoo does look very good. Great balance, dribbling and passing. Just turned 17.
> 
> United u18s are in the FA Youth Cup Final against Forest. Some good players in that team. Dan Gore is another CM, LW Alejandro Garnacho, CF Charlie McNeil and Isak Hansen-Aaroen.




Another good player who I think is in the same team.


----------



## Venkman

les Habs said:


> I picked up in our keeper league a couple of days before your post. Reminds me a bit of Pogba,
> 
> 
> Another good player who I think is in the same team.




Marc Jurado?


----------



## cgf

Our u17 NT for the EM has been announced. Not every top talent in that age group will be on the team, but with Wanner, Ibrahimovic, Raebiger, Bischof, Krattenmacher, and Ulrich, it's a pretty loaded squad in the midfield & creative areas. With Wanner, Bischof, & Raebiger all having debuted in the BuLi already.

At that age upsets are constant, but this group will go in hoping to win the whole thing.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Our u17 NT for the EM has been announced. Not every top talent in that age group will be on the team, but with Wanner, Ibrahimovic, Raebiger, Bischof, Krattenmacher, and Ulrich, it's a pretty loaded squad in the midfield & creative areas. With Wanner, Bischof, & Raebiger all having debuted in the BuLi already.
> 
> At that age upsets are constant, but this group will go in hoping to win the whole thing.



Any Dortmund players make it? That’s our weakest age group, so I wouldn’t be surprised if we had none.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Any Dortmund players make it? That’s our weakest age group, so I wouldn’t be surprised if we had none.




Stuttgart - 5, Bayern - 4, Hoffenheim - 2, Mainz - 2, Leipzig - 1, Unterhaching - 1, Augsburg - 1, Schalke - 1, Hertha - 1, Gladbach - 1, Dortmund - 1

Just Rafael Lubach amongst current BVB players. Never seen him play though...or at least noticed him. But Maurice Krattenmacher is one of the top talents on the team...he's a goalscoring #10 who doesn't turn 17 until August...and he's going to join you this summer from Unterhaching's academy.


----------



## Eye of Ra

Ünüvar scored or assisted on 28 goals so far this season. A record for a Jong Ajax


----------



## Evilo

And he's leaviing this summer if Ajax can't extend him. I wish he does, I have him in my keeper league. He's IMO ready to take the next step.


----------



## robertmac43

@Evilo can you give me a little introduction to Elye Wahi? Is he the real deal?


----------



## Evilo

Talent is there to become a solid striker. 
The guy had some character problems and was kicked out of Caen's academy. 
He also can change and mistakes happen. But I'd monitor this.


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> And he's leaviing this summer if Ajax can't extend him. I wish he does, I have him in my keeper league. He's IMO ready to take the next step.




I had him in that now defunct keeper league. I had some hesitation too because I would have thought he'd have more minutes with Ajax by now. Also seems a bit lightweight, but really curious to see where he goes and getting for him nothing is a no-brainer.


----------



## Evilo

Since I got them in my keeper league I can now talk more openly about a few prospects :
- Mohamed El Arouch, Lyon, CM, 2004
Mohamed is a rarity. He's played with older kids all his football life but not because of his very undewhelming physical but because of his insane all around talent. He has magical feet but also magical IQ. Guy is small but gets the ball back all the time because of his anticipation and IQ. Guy is also a known leader, extremely humble and who wants to play for others before himself. And of course, his technique is amazing. Both feet, passing, shooting (deadly on FK) he has it all. His only weakness is the size of his body.

- Mathys Tel, Rennes, Striker/winger, 2005
Think of a big body, quick and good feet. Tel has been played all around the pitch but his ability to finish has made Rennes choose him as an offensive option rather than CB or midfielder. He reminds me of a young Henry with less dribbling (he's still new to the position) and has been compared to Neymar (not sure why). He has played in L1 and Europa League already. His potential is crazy but he's not a finished product.

- El Chadaille Bitshiabu, PSG, CB, 2005
Imagine a 2 meter monster who's quick and can pass like the best of them. El Chadaille is unreal in terms of potential. He has lots of work (he is outmuscling opponents because of his size, that won't happen in pro) especially on his positionning and overall defenses. He also has to pick his risk when trying passes that kill pressings and defenses.

- Warren Zaire-Emery, PSG, DM, 2006
The prize of PSG's academy with El Chadaille. Every team is trying to sign him but he seems bound to stay as PSG is offering him anything he wants to sign. He's a DM whose IQ is through the roof. He can pass to anyone anywhere, short or long. He can finish. He is a great presser, cuts passing lanes, etc... He's very ready for pro football. At age 16.


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> - Warren Zaire-Emery, PSG, DM, 2006
> The prize of PSG's academy with El Chadaille. Every team is trying to sign him but he seems bound to stay as PSG is offering him anything he wants to sign. He's a DM whose IQ is through the roof. He can pass to anyone anywhere, short or long. He can finish. He is a great presser, cuts passing lanes, etc... He's very ready for pro football. At age 16.




To quote O’ Brother Where Art Thou, “I seen ‘em first!” You just outbid me. 

Kid looks the real deal.


----------



## Evilo

Tonight was the junior cup final between Caen and Lyon. It ended in a penalty shootout.
Here's how El Arouch started the shootout.


----------



## gary69

From the highlights I saw of that match, El Arouch is way too good to be playing at that level of competition.


----------



## Evilo

He is. But he usually plays in national 2 which is the 4th division.
Just the other day he was on the bench and came in at 0-0. Goal and assist later, Lyon's B team had won 2-0.


----------



## Evilo

Forgot to link El Arouch 's opening goal in the final at the Stade de France.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## Venkman

United u18s won 3-1 in the FA Youth Cup Final in front of 67,500 at Old Trafford. Alejandro Garnacho scoring twice.

United's second goal was lucky as the foul given for the penalty was outside the box. Should have been a free kick and red card as Garnacho was denied a goal scoring opportunity.


----------



## gary69

With his skill, Garnacho is the safest best to get opportunities to play at the top league adult level. If he doesn't make it in England, then clubs in countries like Spain, Italy and Portugal will most likely offer him several chances as well.

On the whole, Man Utd's teamwork left lot to be desired, they were quite disjointed throughout the match. 

I was looking forward to seeing Charlie McNeill (who has scored hundreds and hundreds of youth level goals), but he offered next to nothing and was subbed off. Classed as fox in the box, he was unable to show any of those abilities, didn't really get the ball much at all. He then tried to do other things, dropping deeper into midfield or going wide. Despite some decent running on the right flank, his passing and general play was largely useless.

The small attacking midfielder Isak Hansen-Aaron was even more outside of the game, and rarely saw the ball or engaged in any build-up. If this the role best suited for him, I'm not sure there are many opportunities for him at top level. He would have been a fine traditional number 10 decades ago, but most teams won't have that role any more. He was taken off well before the end of match as well.


----------



## Savant

gary69 said:


> With his skill, Garnacho is the safest best to get opportunities to play at the top league adult level. If he doesn't make it in England, then clubs in countries like Spain, Italy and Portugal will most likely offer him several chances as well.
> 
> On the whole, Man Utd's teamwork left lot to be desired, they were quite disjointed throughout the match.
> 
> I was looking forward to seeing Charlie McNeill (who has scored hundreds and hundreds of youth level goals), but he offered next to nothing and was subbed off. Classed as fox in the box, he was unable to show any of those abilities, didn't really get the ball much at all. He then tried to do other things, dropping deeper into midfield or going wide. Despite some decent running on the right flank, his passing and general play was largely useless.
> 
> The small attacking midfielder Isak Hansen-Aaron was even more outside of the game, and rarely saw the ball or engaged in any build-up. If this the role best suited for him, I'm not sure there are many opportunities for him at top level. He would have been a fine traditional number 10 decades ago, but most teams won't have that role any more. He was taken off well before the end of match as well.



A lot of those British Fox in the box types that shine at youth level wind up flaming out.


----------



## cgf

Savant said:


> A lot of those British Fox in the box types that shine at youth level wind up flaming out.



That’s not just a British thing. It’s very hard for kids to succeed if they don’t bring anything but a nose for goal, to the table.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> That’s not just a British thing. It’s very hard for kids to succeed if they don’t bring anything but a nose for goal, to the table.



There are so many players playing for these big academies in youth football that aren't actually that good, but play with a lot of talent around them on teams that score 3-4 goals per game. How is the striker not going to end up with at least nearly 1 goal per game on that team? It's like being the goalie for the Canes. You'd have to be pretty bad to not accumulate good stats.

I even worry about that a little with some of the Dortmund forwards. Moukoko scored like 40 per year in the youth leagues, and this season he had 2 goals, albeit only in 475 minutes. Fink had 34 goals in 28 games this season for the U19's. 2 in 10 when he moved up to the reserve team in the third division this season. It's a different level. Saying that, I expect these guys to be good pros, but if you are a starter at striker for any of these good academies, you are going to have to be pretty bad to not score a lot at youth level. Doesn't mean it'll translate to pro football.


----------



## Evilo

U17 Euro is starting next week. 
Here is France's team


----------



## gary69

Another kid of Z.Zidane's? The family has a backbone of a team amongst themselves already. Is he considered to have more potential than his siblings?

Pascal Olmeta's son too, and being similarly a keeper like his father.


----------



## Evilo

Yeah the last of Zidane's son. Don't know how good he is.
Olmeta is supposed to be not very good.


----------



## Evilo

Evilo said:


> U17 Euro is starting next week.
> Here is France's team




First game between France and Poland going on right now. Poland was getting killed when they saw Tel and Zaire Emery coming in. Tel scored on his first ball. 5-0 as of now.

Sorry 6-0.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> U17 Euro is starting next week.
> Here is France's team





Did they pick a strong group?

I’m unsure of our defenders, but we sent a very strong group of midfielders & attackers. Who beat Italy 3-2 in their opener with goals from Wanner & Bischof, while Raebiger & Ulrich also started and di Benedetto filled the 6.


----------



## Evilo

Yes strong lineup though I don't know every player. 
But Bitshiabu, Zaire Emery are potential generational talents. And Tel has world class potential. 
I can't remember the last time we had 3 talents like that on a youth team.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Yes strong lineup though I don't know every player.
> But Bitshiabu, Zaire Emery are potential generational talents. And Tel has world class potential.
> I can't remember the last time we had 3 talents like that on a youth team.




Hopefully we meet in the finals then. This age group can be so unpredictable, especially defensively…where we are weakest…but this is our strongest u17 team in ages.


----------



## cgf

Wanner scored a real beauty in that Italy match. Kid can dance through senior teamers like that too.


----------



## Evilo

U21 team.

SICK.

France U17 team destroyed Bulgaria 4-0 (they beat Poland 6-1 in the opener).
Tel scored twice and Zaire Emery once.


----------



## cgf

Luxembourg looked better than I was expecting, from the bits of the match I caught...and our defense looks just as vulnerable as I feared it would be...but in the end a comfortable 3-0 sees our u17s take a commanding lead in group A. Any result against Israel and we're through as group winners; setting that final up against France's u17s.

Unfortunately, Bischof picked up a knock and had to swap with Ibrahimovic at halftime...who scored a nice goal to ice it...those bayern boys really have some nifty feet, with young Arijon getting to show his comfort in traffic.

Still haven't gotten to see Krattenmacher at this tourney, but he's also newer to the team than some of these other wunderkinder and their attacking play isn't anywhere near the concern that the defending has been. So I get why the coaching staff has had other priorities than blooding in yet another supremely talented creative player.


----------



## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


> U21 team.
> 
> SICK.
> 
> France U17 team destroyed Bulgaria 4-0 (they beat Poland 6-1 in the opener).
> Tel scored twice and Zaire Emery once.




Can you share some talent? Jesus


----------



## Evilo

OK, keep in mind that phenom is younger than anyone on the pitch and that he's a 6.


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> OK, keep in mind that phenom is younger than anyone on the pitch and that he's a 6.





Like I told you before you stole him from me, kid looks the real deal and beyond his years.


----------



## cgf

les Habs said:


> Like I told you before you stole him from me, kid looks the real deal and beyond his years.




Agreed, 'French Torben Rhein' looks legit


----------



## les Habs

Speaking of the u17s, I picked up this kid in our keeper league last month:


----------



## Evilo

France Holland in the U17 Euro going on right now. France has benched lots of starters, so I'm thinking they don't want to show all their cards against bigger teams.

Diallo (Strasbourg) makes it 1-0.


----------



## Evilo

Holland ties the game through a penalty.
Totally deserved penalty and deserved tying goal.
France still top of the group with a tie though.


----------



## Evilo

And Holland just scored another after almost giving up another.

Terrible goaltending on the goal though. This generation isn't supposed to have a great goalie, but I think they have two weak ones.


----------



## Evilo

And Holland ends up the game with their third goal on a 90+5 counter with the french pushing for the tying goal.

Good thing they lost IMO. They need to keep their heads much cooler for the next games, and the coach will have to start his stars (Tel, WZE).


----------



## cgf

Bischof back in action against Israel after the knock he picked up against Italy. Ibrahimovic gets a start with the group all but won and Schulz gets the start next to Raebiger & Ulrich at the 6.


----------



## cgf

The defense is still a clear weakness for this group, but Raebiger ended up scoring a brace in the second half to secure the 3-0 & the top spot. Krattenmacher got his first minutes at this tourney while Wanner rested.


----------



## Maverick41

U17 quarterfinals:

Wednesday, 25.05.2022

Germany vs. France
Netherlands vs. Italy


Thursday, 26.05.2022

Denmark vs. Serbia
Spain vs. Portugal


----------



## les Habs

Germany vs France and Spain vs Portugal seem more like SemI final matches.


----------



## cgf

les Habs said:


> Germany vs France and Spain vs Portugal seem more like SemI final matches.



Or a final with as much attacking talent as we both have in this age group


----------



## cgf

Meister starting both strikers is interesting; Ulrich, Ibrahimovic, & Krattenmacher on the bench to start the match. Wanner, Bischof, & Raebiger starting in front of di Benedetto & the back 4.

At the senior level I’d hate a move like that, but at this level…and with our issues in defense…I can see it working out. Pejcinovic & Weiper have both shown well at this tourney; using their size effectively to help the creatives link our attacks.


----------



## cgf

Missed most of the game looking at apartments, but France advances after penalties despite our kids going ahead 2-0 in the shootout. 

Shame this was a quarterfinal matchup rather than a semi or the final.


----------



## Evilo

WZE had a perfect game except his missed penalty. 
France was much better in the first 30 before Germany had their best part to close out the first half. 
After the break the game was close and France had the best chances before the end of the game. 
Olmeta started in goal and was excellent.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> WZE had a perfect game except his missed penalty.
> France was much better in the first 30 before Germany had their best part to close out the first half.
> After the break the game was close and France had the best chances before the end of the game.
> Olmeta started in goal and was excellent.



Yeah I only caught the end of the first half when we were pushing well & a few minutes before ET. Felt like we could’ve turned it around completely before the half…Raebiger in particular had a nice hit that your keeper just pushed off to the post, which felt like it should have been the 2-1.

But when I tuned back in you were flowing forward a lot better. Ton of fun talent in that one though, gunna have to catch a replay if I can find one.

On the plus side, I liked Buchmann during the bits that I saw. After how much crap I gave that group’s defense I felt I should complement the kid for stepping up against a tough opponent.


----------



## cgf

Samardzic gets his u21 debut. Lost in the shuffle a little after his move to Italy & the huge progress of kids like Tillman & Wanner. But the kid’s a big time talent in his own right; who Serbia has been trying to poach for a couple of years now.


----------



## Evilo

U17 France beat Portugal in the semis (Zaire Emery scored again). They'll face the Dutch team again but this time with its starters. 
If France wins, I'm guessing Zaire Emery will easily be named MVP even though he's a f***ing 6.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## PansCyans

This one minutes later might be even more impressive. 



Evilo, did you watch this match? I feel as though you didn’t?


----------



## Evilo

No I didn't!


----------



## PansCyans

It was really good, especially the first half. If the final is as good, it should be great to watch.


----------



## Evilo

I've missed most of the competition in fact and went through reports of scouts/writers I know.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


>




French-Rhein was very impressive from what I caught of the match against us as well.


----------



## Evilo

U17 Euro final, France vs Holland
France hit the post TWICE in the first 7 minutes.
Yet halftime, 0-0, totally rough for the french team but it is what it is.
45 minutes to get the title, but you can not avoid thinking it is not their game.


----------



## Evilo

Yup, just what I said, Holland opens the scoring on their first real chance.


----------



## Evilo

Wow, France is playing Holland off the pitch. A class apart really. But France can't score and the dutch goalie is doing a great job. Total miracle.

1-1 !!!!!
WHAT A GOAL. Kundeli ties the game on a screamer.


----------



## Evilo

And the RB scores again to make it 2-1 ! Totally deserved but the game turned in two minutes.


----------



## Evilo

And the big dutch CB (1.95, Juve) now plays 9 and actually scored the tying goal, rightfully waved off for offside.
Still 2-1.


----------



## Evilo

And the good guys are European champions !


----------



## Evilo

Ukrainian Neymar


----------



## cgf

Strong lineup against Hungary’s u21s today:

Moukoko
Leweling - Burkardt - Knauff
Stiller - Krauß
Netz - Thiaw - ABK - Vagnoman
Mantl​
Samardzic, Martel, Dardai, etc. on the bench.


----------



## cgf

After Leweling got hurt in the first half, Stiller looks like he's picked up a knock in the second half & has been subbed off for Osterhage. God damn it Hungary.

Moukoko & Burkardt with the goals so far. Moukoko's been really lively today, hasn't been that far from getting a 2nd in a couple situations.

E:
Krauß curls in Alidou's nice cross for the 3-0. The HSV man has caused the hungarians a lot of trouble since coming on for Leweling...*sigh*

E2:
After coming on for Mouki with 10min to spare, Samardzic ices it off a nice feed from Burkardt.

Hopefully we hold onto him better than the last exciting dual national teenager that was on that team


----------



## Power Man

Algeria with 2 loss in the Revello tournament - vs Japan and Colombia

That sucks because we played realy well

At least we have quite a few promising young players

Don't f*** this up with corruption, Algerian FA


----------



## cgf

Jamie Leweling is suspected to have a torn ligament. Guess that gives Becker some more time playing off of Taiwo before Jamie takes over that spot.

F***in Hungary.


----------



## Evilo

France spanked Argentina 6-2 in the U20 Revello tournament.
This is the team which finished 3rd at the U17 WC in 2019.


----------



## cgf

A year on from winning the euros, Wirtz, Schlotterbeck, Adeyemi, Raum, Baku, Nmecha, & Stach…with Burkardt getting some cameos…have either already gotten senior team call ups or will after Qatar. Not bad for a veteran team.

This group might surpass that with captain Burkardt leading Schade, Moukoko, Stiller, Netz, Bella Kotchap, Dardai & Thiaw; who all look very likely to someday be senior teamers.

…as well as Krauß / Becker / Martel in the midfield and Leweling / Knauff / Thielmann / Alidou / Samardzic in the attack; who have flashed that kind of talent, but whom I’m not as confident in as that first group.


----------



## cgf

Mouki's brace erased the slip up that let Poland's U21s equalize. With the group wrapped up, we went with the b-midfielders & b-fullbacks, but Burkardt, Moukoko & new boy Samardzic started up front while Bella Kotchap & Thiaw started in the center of the defense.

...so I can't really call it a full b-team, given that ABK & Thiaw are the favorites to start at CB for us at the finals, with Dardai a close third, Burkardt is the captain and best player atm, while Moukoko is the biggest talent that age group has to call upon.


----------



## PansCyans

It can be confusing sometimes keeping up with which nations are developing or declining and what level. 

Liechtenstein U21s just completed their qualyfers. 

They went 0-0-10, scored zero goals and conceded 63 goals.


----------



## cgf

cgf said:


> Mouki's brace erased the slip up that let Poland's U21s equalize. With the group wrapped up, we went with the b-midfielders & b-fullbacks, but Burkardt, Moukoko & new boy Samardzic started up front while Bella Kotchap & Thiaw started in the center of the defense.
> 
> ...so I can't really call it a full b-team, given that ABK & Thiaw are the favorites to start at CB for us at the finals, with Dardai a close third, Burkardt is the captain and best player atm, while Moukoko is the biggest talent that age group has to call upon.


----------



## robertmac43

Brighton has officially signed Enciso - the Paraguayan wonder kid! Exciting times for sure. He will likely go on loan for a season or two before joining the main squad.


----------



## Evilo

After the U17 Euro title, the french U20 won the Toulon tournament today.
Here is the U19 selection for the upcoming Euro :


Some names to follow :
Hadjam (LB) and Pereira (RB) are two very exciting FB, which is not that often. 
Ousmane Camara (CB) is one of the best L2 players already. Potential is crazy for him.
Bondo and Da Silva are well known names. Da Silva especially is a very interesting 8 that makes everyone around him better. Lyon academy, on loan this year.
Ben Seghir has transfered from Nice to OM last summer and is an exciting striker.
Main guy up front should be Virginius from Sochaux. Explosive winger. Tchaouna is a good winger from Rennes too.


----------



## John Pedro

Brazil u20 team looking incredible. Marcos Leonardo (Santos) and Matheus Nascimento (Botafogo) combine for a nice goal.


now Marcos Leonardo assist Kayky (Manchester City)


and he just scored again, Brazil 7 x 0 Uruguay


----------



## John Pedro

Not from today's game, but nice nonetheless. Vinicius Tobias (Real Madrid) is a winger that plays RB. So skilled. One of the best Brazilians in this 3-game tournament.


----------



## John Pedro

Notable kids that didn't get select for this side: Savinho, Endrick, Giovani, Renyer, Matheus França. Really exciting team with tons of other guys that could've made it


----------



## gary69

Don't know many of those players, but I just wish more Brazilians youngsters would pick up two word names for themselves, easier to keep track of them. Luckily there are quite a few in these last posts.


----------



## cgf

Having a promising Kayky & Kaiky is just as much of a dick move as when we had a promising Meyer & Maier.


----------



## les Habs

Barca were linked with one of the Kaykys, I’m assuming the one that isn’t at City. I think Nascimento too, and that kid looks really good in the little I’ve seen of him.


----------



## Eye of Ra

John Pedro said:


> Notable kids that didn't get select for this side: Savinho, Endrick, Giovani, Renyer, Matheus França. Really exciting team with tons of other guys that could've made it




all of this guys are offensive players as far as i know. is there any good brazilian defensive prospects?


----------



## John Pedro

les Habs said:


> Barca were linked with one of the Kaykys, I’m assuming the one that isn’t at City. I think Nascimento too, and that kid looks really good in the little I’ve seen of him.






Eye of Ra said:


> all of this guys are offensive players as far as i know. is there any good brazilian defensive prospects?




Kaiky with just one y is the one Barça has been linked to. He's a CB 

Mycael is a keeper. 

but yeah usually defenders are overlooked down here. Like, nobody gave two shits about Bremer and Diego Carlos as youth players.



gary69 said:


> Don't know many of those players, but I just wish more Brazilians youngsters would pick up two word names for themselves, easier to keep track of them. Luckily there are quite a few in these last posts.




Media down here hates that. They feel like it's europeanization of our football. They rather short names or nicknames than name-surname.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

John Pedro said:


> Notable kids that didn't get select for this side: Savinho, Endrick, Giovani, Renyer, Matheus França. Really exciting team with tons of other guys that could've made it




When is the qualifying tournament?


----------



## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> When is the qualifying tournament?



january '23


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

John Pedro said:


> january '23



CONCACAF decided to hold the qualifying tournament in mid June this year because they thought it’d give the best chance for players to be released. Didn’t happen. Very few players released that teams wanted to keep.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Evilo

This team won 5-0 against Slovakia.
Tchaouna finished MOTM with 1G and 2A. Vigrinius was spectacular and Pereira had a wonderful assist on the opening goal.
Bondo got injured but Da Silva was great replacing him.
This team doesn't have superstars on its roster like the U17, but guys like Virginius could have a very very good career.
And the 2 FB are just what France needed. Excellent on both side : quick, explosive (Pereira) and wonderfully talented (Hadjam).


----------



## Evilo

France and Italy beat Romania and Skovakia respectively and are through to the semi final. They're also qualified for the U20 WC next summer.


----------



## Jussi

cgf said:


> Having a promising Kayky & Kaiky is just as much of a dick move as when we had a promising Meyer & Maier.



Let's not forget the dozen Dembeles and Kamaras...


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> France and Italy beat Romania and Skovakia respectively and are through to the semi final. They're also qualified for the U20 WC next summer.



France nearly lost it at the end


----------



## Evilo

Yes I watched the game. France could have been up by 4 or 5 at the half. But lost the plot in the second half. And Romania did have a very good chance in the ET.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Yes I watched the game. France could have been up by 4 or 5 at the half. But lost the plot in the second half. And Romania did have a very good chance in the ET.



Yeah, Romania brought on some subs and looked like a different team. It was a fun match.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Alfie Devine on the bench. 

At least Scarlett is starting.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Less than five minutes in and Scarlett scores.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Scarlett scored again. Him and Chukwuemeka are so good.


----------



## cgf

Sonaldo7 said:


> Scarlett scored again. Him and Chukwuemeka are so good.




Scarlett has been fun in the bits of this I've caught. Reminds me of watching Timo at the youth level.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Chukwuemeka is running down his contract at Aston Villa. Will be interesting to see where he ends up.



cgf said:


> Scarlett has been fun in the bits of this I've caught. Reminds me of watching Timo at the youth level.



I hope he gets a lower-league loan this coming season.


----------



## cgf

Sonaldo7 said:


> *Chukwuemeka is running down his contract at Aston Villa. Will be interesting to see where he ends up.*
> 
> 
> I hope he gets a lower-league loan this coming season.




BVB were reported to be working on him earlier in the summer.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

cgf said:


> BVB were reported to be working on him earlier in the summer.



Sounds like a great place for him in my mind.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Sonaldo7 said:


> Scarlett scored again. Him and Chukwuemeka are so good.



Goal was all started by a great Gittens run.


----------



## Evilo

France torched Italy 4-1 in the U19 final group stage game.
Tchaouna scored twice and Lyon's sweet Da Silva scored a wonderful shot from way out of the area.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Devine with the quick impact.


----------



## Power Man

Algeria U18 beat Spain U18 in the opener of the 2022 Mediterranean games

Det Luka Modricesque goal

Don’t screw this up, Algerian FA

France beat Morocco


----------



## Savant

John Pedro said:


> Brazil u20 team looking incredible. Marcos Leonardo (Santos) and Matheus Nascimento (Botafogo) combine for a nice goal.
> 
> 
> now Marcos Leonardo assist Kayky (Manchester City)
> 
> 
> and he just scored again, Brazil 7 x 0 Uruguay




Reports linking Liverpool to Marcos Leonardo today. 

Any more detailed thoughts on the player? Brazil’s answer to Alvarez?


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

England vs Italy U19 Semi's starting now.

Scarlett and Devine starting.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Devine getting the assist on the corner kick.

England haven't gotten a single goal this tournament that Devine, Scarlett or Chukwuemeka haven't been involved in (scored or assisted).


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Just like that England are in the lead. Another corner.


----------



## Power Man

And we just lost to Morocco

France is going to crush us in our next game


----------



## PansCyans

Israel knocked out France in U19 semi final and will face England in the final. 

Below is the situation both Israel and France came into their semi final clash.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Israel beat France and will play England in the u19 final. 

They’ve been good at both the u21 and u19 level, it’ll be interesting to see how many are able to ultimately step up to the senior NT.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

England already beat Israel once this tournament. Should be able to do it again.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Sonaldo7 said:


> England already beat Israel once this tournament. Should be able to do it again.



They hardly blew the doors off, but I kind of hope England approaches the match that way. I bet France had zero belief they could lose today.


----------



## Evilo

Not overly surprised since France had a weird lineup (injuries I think) and as I said earlier, this is not a team with big names on it so it didn't have a lot of margin for error.
Still 24 shots to 4, nearly 70% possession, this seems like an industrial crash and likely a scenario that doesn't happen in 100 rematches. Shit happens.


----------



## John Pedro

Savant said:


> Reports linking Liverpool to Marcos Leonardo today.
> 
> Any more detailed thoughts on the player? Brazil’s answer to Alvarez?



Very promissong, would say he's our biggest hope for a world class 9 alongside Endrick and Matheus Nascimento 

He's kinda like a better finisher version of Gabriel Jesus. Great pace, technique, instricts, good on the air even although he's isnt very tall (1,74 cm)

Would be a smart buy


----------



## Power Man

As expected we lost to France

Not too badly though, 2-3

French players were more disciplined


----------



## bluesfan94

Mexico lost to Guatemala in the U20 quarterfinals, so they won't be going to the WC. Pretty shockingly bad loss.


----------



## Savant

16 year old from New Jersey scores in MLS debut



Those Red Bull folks going to love to see that press


----------



## Jersey Fresh

What a goal by Gloukh. Israel has been the much much better side, not even really close. That last looping cross that the Israeli goalkeeper muffed counts as a shot, but really England had nothing at goal.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

England equalize. Apparently corners are their thing.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Going to ET. What a fantastic second half of football by both these sets of players.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Ooooof. Chukwuemeka bundled over the line in the second ET to put England ahead. Think the goaltender should have claimed that, but tough call.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

That’ll seal it, 3-1. Great game.


----------



## Savant




----------



## JeffreyLFC

Savant said:


> 16 year old from New Jersey scores in MLS debut
> 
> 
> 
> Those Red Bull folks going to love to see that press




What the f*** is the defender doing... waiting for a pass for like 10 secs.


----------



## cgf

After discussions with Stefan Kuntz and Ilkay Gundogan; Schalke's Aydin has announced that he is going to wait until the winter before deciding if he will stick with us (he's played for our u15 through u20 teams) and join the u21s for the EM next summer, or if he'll join the Turkish sernior NT.

Kid's an interesting RWB who played an important role in Schalke's promotion campaign. I like his longterm potential more than Knauff's.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## John Pedro

São Paulo sold Gabriel Sara (23, midfielder) to Norwich for 9m. Needing a replacement, Rodriguinho was called up for his first pro game at 18y old. He needed 13min to score his first pro goal against U Catolica.

Kid is really a joy to watch, classic lanky number 10 that plays with a ellegance you don't often see nowadays


----------



## gary69

So, how good is Leverkusen's 17-year old Spaniard Iker Bravo (ex-Barca)? I noticed that he scored a hattrick in their preseason match against Duisburg. Will he see some time in the first team this coming season?


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Evilo




----------



## Eye of Ra

Ajax signs 16 year old Polish talent Jan Faberski


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Hope he gets a developing loan move.


----------



## Evilo

Yes his team went down the drain this year and it was tough for him.


----------



## Evilo

Galtier has played Warren Zaire Emery way more than he was expected too in the friendlies and... you guessed it... he was huge again. Guy might be 16, but he's ready.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Galtier has played Warren Zaire Emery way more than he was expected too in the friendlies and... you guessed it... he was huge again. Guy might be 16, but he's ready.



I’m not gonna argue, but to be fair, they’re playing a mid table Japanese team.


----------



## Evilo

And other PSG veteran midfielders couldn't play/look good?


----------



## les Habs

From the little I've seen of Warren Zaire Emery he already looks like he's ready for top division football.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Evilo

Benfica signed young CB prospect Leo Lacroix (2003) from Metz. Someone I've followed for years because of his high potential.


----------



## gary69

I was confused for a moment. So, he has the same name as the older, tall Swiss defender, who used to play in France.


----------



## Evilo

Pfff, sorry, Lenny Lacroix !


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Evilo

Kays Ruiz's return to Barca has failed and he has signed with Auxerre instead. 
Very talented and excellent IQ but slow and not pro body either. 
He would have fit better in Spain than L1 IMO.


----------



## Evilo

Zaire Emery just got onto the pitch for his first pro minutes.
First ball he stole the ball and it almost created a Messi goal.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Kid has Marcelo in him but I’ll rather a Zanneti clone.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Kid has Marcelo in him but I’ll rather a Zanneti clone.





Are you sure he’s Argentine and not Irish?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Are you sure he’s Argentine and not Irish?



His cousin is Alexis


----------



## Evilo

Rayan Cherki's contract ends next summer. If he doesn't sign an extension in the upcoming days, he'll be sold.
Players has big offers from different big teams and is weighing his options.


----------



## robertmac43

@Evilo What is the potential of Alexis Beka?


----------



## Evilo

It's pretty high I'd say. He was a very hyped guy at Caen and played very well despite injuries and suspensions on a team struggling to stay in L2. Then Rangnick really wanted him and signed him for 6M. But Rangnick left and he just signed with Nice (which was interested last year too).


----------



## bluesfan94

Marquinhos has looked amazing on Arsenal's u21 team thus far. Three goals in 2 games thus far, with there still being 40 minutes remaining in the second match. MotM in the first one


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

The player didn’t even get a red card… VAR had to step in. Crazy poor kid is now out 6 months


----------



## Evilo

Wow, so you can go over 1000 posts, but some threads are locked... because of time? Weird...

Anyway, Rennes' young turkish goalie made a huge mistake to give Monaco a tying goal. And then went on to make the most amazing save at the last second to prevent the loss.


----------



## John Pedro

Vitor Roque gonna be a star. 17y old striker.

Crazy stamina, pace, never give up attitute, powerful shot.

Put his side in Libertadores semifinal with a goal against Estudiantes in Argentina, in extra time:


3 days before he scored twice against Atletico Mineiro, incluinding this beauty:


14 games as starter, 30 overall: 12 goals, 3 assist


----------



## John Pedro

Sao Paulo's 18y fullback/midfielder (can play both sides as FB) João Moreira has been called up to Brazil u20. He's been repping Portugal at youth level.

Portugal almost stole him. Great potential as a FB, has been good in his limited minutes for SP pro side.


----------



## Evilo

robertmac43 said:


> @Evilo What is the potential of Alexis Beka?



Well !!!! Wonder goal to put Nice through in the EL !


----------



## Savant

and he represents Wales at youth level


----------



## cgf

The december-2005-born Arijon Ibrahimovic (16yo) is up to 6 goals & an assist after 3 matches this season for Bayern's U19s. 

Can't help but wonder how much longer until he, like Wanner, starts seeing cameos with Bayern's senior team.


----------



## gary69

gary69 said:


> So, how good is Leverkusen's 17-year old Spaniard Iker Bravo (ex-Barca)? I noticed that he scored a hattrick in their preseason match against Duisburg. Will he see some time in the first team this coming season?




Didn't see this coming, as Bravo moves to Real Madrid. Quite a move at such young age, to have played for both Barca and Real. Not sure if this will go down well with the supporters.


----------



## Eye of Ra

cgf said:


> The december-2005-born Arijon Ibrahimovic (16yo) is up to 6 goals & an assist after 3 matches this season for Bayern's U19s.
> 
> Can't help but wonder how much longer until he, like Wanner, starts seeing cameos with Bayern's senior team.



The Zlatan genes


----------



## cgf

Eye of Ra said:


> The Zlatan genes




...are so strong that they don't even care that there's no relation


----------



## Evilo

Lyon just made a really good move for the RB position. They only had Gusto and no backup since they sold Leo Dubois. 
They just bought Sael Kumbedi (Le Havre) for 1M euros. Very low price for one of the best RB prospect in France. WIth Gusto, they have the best 2 in fact. They must trust Gusto will do the job (I believe so too).


----------



## JeffreyLFC

Evilo said:


>




The french Firmino regen.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

New deal for Devine | Tottenham Hotspur


We are delighted to announce that Alfie Devine has signed a new contract with the Club that will run until 2027.



www.tottenhamhotspur.com





Great prospect. Would've gotten loaned out this summer if he didn't get injured.


----------



## gary69

Two goals for Ilyes Housni in the Youth CL against Juve today, does he have much promise? Also Kylian's 15 year brother Ethan Mbappe (midfielder) was on the bench.


----------



## Evilo

Housni is very highly rated yes.


----------



## Evilo

Oh btw, Warren Zaire Emery had a Youth League game yesterday.
He's a DM remember. 16 yo playing in this U19 category.
He's also starting the play BTW.



Added an assist



Forgot to say it was his WRONG foot.


----------



## les Habs

WZE is just a phenomenal player.


----------



## gary69

cgf said:


> The december-2005-born Arijon Ibrahimovic (16yo) is up to 6 goals & an assist after 3 matches this season for Bayern's U19s.
> 
> Can't help but wonder how much longer until he, like Wanner, starts seeing cameos with Bayern's senior team.




Scored today in the youth CL league, but missed a penalty too (hit the bar), before being subbed off. Inter came back to draw 2-2. Probably should see some in the cup at least.


----------



## cgf

gary69 said:


> Scored today in the youth CL league, but missed a penalty too (hit the bar), before being subbed off. Inter came back to draw 2-2. Probably should see some in the cup at least.




Will be very interesting to see what happens with him, Wanner, Raebiger, & Bischof. To have all 4 in the same age group will be nuts if they all make the jump to senior football successfully.


----------



## bluesfan94

cgf said:


> Will be very interesting to see what happens with him, Wanner, Raebiger, & Bischof. To have all 4 in the same age group will be nuts if they all make the jump to senior football successfully.



What are your thoughts on the American kids at Bayern (or have you not watched them)? I'm thinking Dettoni and Deziel specifically.


----------



## cgf

bluesfan94 said:


> What are your thoughts on the American kids at Bayern (or have you not watched them)? I'm thinking Dettoni and Deziel specifically.




I dunno if I've ever seen Deziel, but Dettoni didn't stick out in a bad way whenever I've caught him. It's tough with youth-level CBs because so much depends on how they'll be able to track runners at the senior level and it's hard to project that mental growth, but from a tools perspective Dettoni & Buchmann both look talented enough to play for Bayern someday.

...I'm probably higher on Buchmann; like him & Arrey-Mbi both a lot; but ultimately it's how they'll make the jump to the senior level that'll determine if they are more Schlotterbeck & Bella Kotchap or more Tah & Mai.


----------



## bluesfan94

cgf said:


> I dunno if I've ever seen Deziel, but Dettoni didn't stick out in a bad way whenever I've caught him. It's tough with youth-level CBs because so much depends on how they'll be able to track runners at the senior level and it's hard to project that mental growth, but from a tools perspective Dettoni & Buchmann both look talented enough to play for Bayern someday.
> 
> ...I'm probably higher on Buchmann; like him & Arrey-Mbi both a lot; but ultimately it's how they'll make the jump to the senior level that'll determine if they are more Schlotterbeck & Bella Kotchap or more Tah & Mai.



Gotta say, I'd be worried if you weren't higher on the German prospect


----------



## cgf

bluesfan94 said:


> Gotta say, I'd be worried if you weren't higher on the German prospect




lol touche

...but being serious, that was meant to be more about how intrigued I am by Buchmann if the mental side comes along. I like Scally more than Knauff or any of our RB prospects right now...and he's more ready to contribute than Netz...while Tel is ahead of both Wanner & Arijon atm; so even though I pay more attention to german kids, I don't always rate them more.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I read Bayern media. 

Deziel is a non-entity. Never comes up. The guy doesn’t play very much either for the youth teams. If you aren’t starting in youth football, that’s not good. Not all those guys are going to become pro footballers, and to not even be a starter among a majority that won’t play pro, doesn’t mean it’s time to quit, but might be time to start looking for a college scholarship. 

Dettoni occasionally comes up, but not that often. Buchmann is mentioned a lot more, and when both of them can’t be in the same lineup, as Wednesday showed, Buchmann plays. Bayern already had two guys in their age group already appear for the first team. Dettoni doesn’t appear to be the non-entity that Deziel is, but Transfermarkt tells me he’s never appeared for his US age group. I don’t know if that’s correct, but the safe guess is that it is and he’s not better than these players in MLS. 

It’s easy to get excited when these players pop up at these academies, but it’s such a different process for the USA from the best European footballing nations. Those countries have thousands of players in these academies because these academies are usually populated mostly with players from their country. Of that many, they identify the few that are good. For a country like the USA, that same process happens for the MLS players, but when there’s one of these players at Bayern Munich’s academy fans get excited. 

The odds are not very favorable. Probably 1/20 at Bayern’s academy will appear for the first team, and if we adjust the lens to players who play first division football somewhere, it can’t be better than 1/15.


----------



## bluesfan94

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Dettoni doesn’t appear to be the non-entity that Deziel is, but I don’t know if the USMNT has ever had one of these players pop up at these big European academies and be really good.



Yunus Musah would like to have a word. Jedi, too, depending on your definition of big. TBD on CCV/Tillman. Weah was at the big academies. You were in love with Konrad. Dest at Ajax. Pefok at Reims. Then you have the Jermaine Jones and Fabian Johnsons of the world.

But of course you can also count the Zelalems who disappoint. Anyway, I'm not really counting on these guys to come through, just curious. And Dettoni played on Wednesday, at least.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

bluesfan94 said:


> Yunus Musah would like to have a word. Jedi, too, depending on your definition of big. TBD on CCV/Tillman. Weah was at the big academies. You were in love with Konrad. Dest at Ajax. Pefok at Reims. Then you have the Jermaine Jones and Fabian Johnsons of the world.
> 
> But of course you can also count the Zelalems who disappoint. Anyway, I'm not really counting on these guys to come through, just curious. And Dettoni played on Wednesday, at least.




Wasn’t talking about these guys that we stole from other countries. Musah happens to be born in the USA. Carter-Vickers and Robinson have an American parent, but spent their whole lives in England. Same for Tillman with Germany and Dest with Ajax. Pefok is another that so happened to be born in the USA to foreign parents. He couldn’t speak English until recently. 

I’m talking about thoroughly American kids that turn up at these academies in Europe. Probably like 1/15 of them will be any good. 

I don’t know the whole story with Weah, but I think he was known for his play in the USA before he went to PSG. Konrad de La Fuente is the best of the recent players that went through these academies from close to the start, but he was not that good. Played only a few games for Barcelona. I wasn’t in love with him. You’ve fallen for bait from the Barcelona fanboys.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Paris Brunner has 14 goals in 4 games for Dortmund's U17's. Wasn't a player who had been talked about much coming into this season, but sounds like he's doing great. He's from the same age group as Raul Konig, who already plays for our U19's, and is talked about as one of the biggest talents we've produced in recent years.


----------



## gary69

18-year old Oakley Cannonnier with a hattrick today for Liverpool in the youth CL today against Ajax. Doesn't seem to have any outstanding physical qualities, but boy, the teenager can finish. Not that Ajax knew much about marking, but even still he has scored a lot at youth level, 41 total goals last season.

If he has similar good numbers this season, certainly should go on a loan next season. Doesn't really seem have the qualities to play as CF at men's level, but who knows. He used to play at number 10 role, so maybe he can find a suitable role somewhere on the pitch anyhow.

Another player who stood out a bit, was right wing back Isaac Mabaya, not quite the level of performances Neco Williams put out at this level few years ago, though. Seemed good with both feet, but maybe you would like to see him being able to dribble past opponents a bit more. Not just looking for cross/pass.


----------



## Ajacied

gary69 said:


> 18-year old Oakley Cannonnier with a hattrick today for Liverpool in the youth CL today against Ajax. Doesn't seem to have any outstanding physical qualities, but boy, the teenager can finish. Not that Ajax knew much about marking, but even still he has scored a lot at yout level, 41 total goals last season.
> 
> If he has similar good numbers this season, certainly should go on a loan next season. Doesn't really seem have the qualities to play as CF at men's level, but who who knows. He used to play at number 10 role, so maybe he can find a suitable role somewhere on the pitch anyhow.
> 
> Another player who stood out a bit, was right wing back Isaac Mabaya, not quite the level of performances Neco Williams put out at this level few years ago, though. Seemed good with both feet, but maybe you would like to see him being able to dribble past opponents a bit more. Not just looking for cross/pass.



He looked lethal indeed, Gary.

Ajax on the other hand: never ever have I witnessed an Ajax youth team play this uninspired, weak and clueless. It could’ve been 7-0 easily. I realise there have been lots of changes within the squad, but this was embarrassing.


----------



## gary69

Victor Barbera with a hat-trick against Bayern, especially the third one was a nice goal. 

Didn't check what his registration status is between Barca B and first team, but if allowed, maybe he could see some 1st team action around World Cup, when lots of players are bound to be tired.


----------



## Savant

LFC u19 smashed Ajax u19 4-0

Oakley Cannonier scored a hat trick. If that name is vaguely familiar, he was the ball boy that set up LFC’s winning goal in the 2019 Semifinal against Barcelona by providing the ball to Trent for “Corner Taken Quickly”


----------



## karhukissa

Norway keeps delivering, 05 born winger Antonio Nusa scored yesterday for Brugge against Porto.


----------



## cgf

Someday I'll figure out why german teams always do so poorly in the youth league. Part of it is not prioritizing it at all, part of it is integrating top talents at the senior level at a younger age, and part of it is the talent being more dispersed...as plenty of the best young talents don't go to the best senior teams until they're at the senior level.

...but damn, every year our YL teams do terribly. Despite having 5 teams in the competition BuLi clubs have just 5 points after 2 matches between them atm, and BVB is already losing to City's youth team.


----------



## gary69

City eventually won against Dortmund, who were leading 2-1 at 89 mins. The first 20 mins City totally dominated the ball, must have had 80%+ possession. But Dortmund still had chances, especially as the game progressed, with players counterattacking in numbers. But it was wild shooting from them, Bamba, Brunner etc. often way off target. Wasn't impressed by Brunner in this match.

I kept wondering how do some of their players score at all, Rijkoff especially. Didn't see much of the ball in scoring positions. He came very deep to get the ball, and was playing anywhere between CM and CF. Then the one time he did get the ball in the box, he was fouled and scored from the penalty himself. When he was taken off in the 86th minute, Dortmund looked on their way to win the match.

Walz goal was a nice shot. Semic and Simic could be capable players at men's level, showed some good moves.

But during the last minutes both teams looked very tired and were making more mistakes, and the play was much more free flowing. Nmamdi Collins led defence has looked mostly solid until then, but then the mistakes crept in. Winger Aning unnecessarily brough down City sub Ndala for a penalty. He went to even score the winner a few minutes later. Certainly an inspired sub, taking on tired defenders relentlessily.

Most impressive player for City was the Portuguese left winger Carlos Borges, who provided two assists. Good speed and off the ball movement, passing and not easy to defend against one on one.


----------



## Evilo

After winning the Euro with the 2005 born, Warren Zaire Emery (2006) is now selected with the 2004. He's joining Mathys Tel, Desire Doue, El Chadaille Bitshiabu (all 2005) and the excellent crop of 2004 (Odobert, Ugochukwu, Vogel, Diarra, etc...).


----------



## markog

cgf said:


> Someday I'll figure out why german teams always do so poorly in the youth league. Part of it is not prioritizing it at all, part of it is integrating top talents at the senior level at a younger age, and part of it is the talent being more dispersed...as plenty of the best young talents don't go to the best senior teams until they're at the senior level.
> 
> ...but damn, every year our YL teams do terribly. Despite having 5 teams in the competition BuLi clubs have just 5 points after 2 matches between them atm, and BVB is already losing to City's youth team.



Because their best talented players are already in the first team. You always have to look at national teams how they do and Germans are always in top 4 although they don't produce top end talent at high rate like they did in at the begining of 2010's.



gary69 said:


> City eventually won against Dortmund, who were leading 2-1 at 89 mins. The first 20 mins City totally dominated the ball, must have had 80%+ possession. But Dortmund still had chances, especially as the game progressed, with players counterattacking in numbers. But it was wild shooting from them, Bamba, Brunner etc. often way off target. Wasn't impressed by Brunner in this match.
> 
> I kept wondering how do some of their players score at all, Rijkoff especially. Didn't see much of the ball in scoring positions. He came very deep to get the ball, and was playing anywhere between CM and CF. Then the one time he did get the ball in the box, he was fouled and scored from the penalty himself. When he was taken off in the 86th minute, Dortmund looked on their way to win the match.
> 
> Walz goal was a nice shot. Semic and Simic could be capable players at men's level, showed some good moves.
> 
> But during the last minutes both teams looked very tired and were making more mistakes, and the play was much more free flowing. Nmamdi Collins led defence has looked mostly solid until then, but then the mistakes crept in. Winger Aning unnecessarily brough down City sub Ndala for a penalty. He went to even score the winner a few minutes later. Certainly an inspired sub, taking on tired defenders relentlessily.
> 
> Most impressive player for City was the Portuguese left winger Carlos Borges, who provided two assists. Good speed and off the ball movement, passing and not easy to defend against one on one.



Dortmund are losers, everyone knew they would lose that game even when they went up 1-0.


----------



## cgf

markog said:


> Because their best talented players are already in the first team. You always have to look at national teams how they do and Germans are always in top 4 although they don't produce top end talent at high rate like they did in at the begining of 2010's.




A) we did poorly in the Uefa's youth competitions even before the lull we hit after the 95ers & 96ers; Kimmich, Sane, Gnabry, Goretzka, Süle, Werner, Brandt, Tah, Kehrer, Klostermann, Dahoud, Weigl, Amiri, Mukhtar, Baumgartl...even if many of those failed to live up to the hype they once had.



B) We've actually been back on an upswing with our youth development over the past handful of years. We're still thin in the deeper midfield spots behind Kimmich, Goretzka, & Gundogan...

...where Stiller is the only kid we've got who looks likely to be an NT-starter candidate in his prime and is already playing for his club's senior-team, and the 23yo Stach is the only kid in the mix for a spot in Qatar...but that's more about our lack of quality holding 6 options for the bench.


...but we have got a lot of young talent at / on-the / in-the:
- Forward / Wing / Creative-Midfield

Havertz, Wirtz, Musiala, Adeyemi, Moukoko, Burkardt, & Nmecha; are all either already fighting for senior NT spots or anchors for the U21 NT, who have not yet gotten their shot with the senior team.

Paul Wanner, Arijon Ibrahimovic, Sidney Raebiger, & Tom Bischof are further away but have similarly entrancing talent in the creative-midfield / attacking positions.

Plus Schade (I'm really high on him from this group), Leweling, Samardzic, Thielmann, Shuranov, Beier, Weiper, Amyn, Copado, Krattenmacher, Weißhaupt, Alidou; have senior NT potential but aren't the same kind of tier 1 talents as those first two groups.


- CBs...on top of Flick & Nagelsmann helping Süle & Kehrer get their s*** together; we've also got Schlotterbeck (22), Bella Kotchap (20), Dardai (20), Thiaw (21), Gechter (18), Arrey-Mbi (19), & Lawrence (19);

All of whom are club-level senior-teamers that are either already on the senior NT (Schlotterbeck & Bella Kotchap) or will push for spots on it over the coming cycle (Dardai & Thiaw) / cycle*s* (Arrey-Mbi, Gechter, Lawrence, Buchmann, Collins).


- FBs/WBs...Baku (24) & Raum (24) are already difference makers at the senior level and well in the senior NT mix, one of them is likely to start alongside 3 CBs in our back 4. While Knauff (20) & Netz (19) are staples of the U21 NT despite already playing regularly for their clubs' senior teams.

With John (20), Aydin (20), Rothe (17), & Vagnoman (21) also in the process of carving out spots for themselves at the senior level despite still playing for various youth NTs.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Dortmund’s youth league team is a lot weaker this year. Don’t know why we’d be called losers. We have like 7 players who are age eligible that aren’t playing for that team.


----------



## markog

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Dortmund’s youth league team is a lot weaker this year. Don’t know why we’d be called losers. We have like 7 players who are age eligible that aren’t playing for that team.



I didn't call their youth team losers, I called their senior team losers. They always find a way to lose games and can't get anything done. In last 5 years Dortmund spent 335m on new players, Bayern spent 432m € and also the differnce in purchased players for both squads is 115m € in favour of Bayern. So it's not a difference of universes like Dortmund always says. Yeah Bayern has much bigger wage bill but they always had that.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

markog said:


> I didn't call their youth team losers, I called their senior team losers. They always find a way to lose games and can't get anything done. In last 5 years Dortmund spent 335m on new players, Bayern spent 432m € and also the differnce in purchased players for both squads is 115m € in favour of Bayern. So it's not a difference of universes like Dortmund always says. Yeah Bayern has much bigger wage bill but they always had that.




I’m not sure what that has to do with this thread though. That’s a larger discussion for another thread.


----------



## Savant

This is an interesting one



USA getting Maynor Figueroa’s kid. A few years away but highly thought of at LFC. Was also elible for England and Honduras.


----------



## markog

Savant said:


> This is an interesting one
> 
> 
> 
> USA getting Maynor Figueroa’s kid. A few years away but highly thought of at LFC. Was also elible for England and Honduras.





He still is eligible for other countrys until he plays a competitive game (not a friendly) for US senior team.


----------



## cgf

markog said:


> I didn't call their youth team losers, I called their senior team losers. They always find a way to lose games and can't get anything done. In last 5 years Dortmund spent 335m on new players, Bayern spent 432m € and also the differnce in purchased players for both squads is 115m € in favour of Bayern. So it's not a difference of universes like Dortmund always says. *Yeah Bayern has much bigger wage bill but they always had that.*




That's kind of important...

...at least unless we're talking about a cool club like 1. FC Union Berlin


----------



## markog

cgf said:


> That's kind of important...
> 
> ...at least unless we're talking about a cool club like 1. FC Union Berlin



Yeah those who don't win anything are always cool and cute.


----------



## cgf

markog said:


> Yeah those who don't win anything are always cool and cute.




Looks like somebody hasn't looked at the table


----------



## markog

cgf said:


> Looks like somebody hasn't looked at the table



Oh I didn't know they won a trophy for being 1. after 6 games. Sorry.


----------



## cgf

markog said:


> Oh I didn't know they won a trophy for being 1. after 6 games. Sorry.




Make whatever excuses you want, but a team can only win the games they've played


----------



## Evilo




----------



## cgf

20yo Lazar Samardzic...who replaced Tillman with the U21s when he opted for the US...has picked up 2 goals in his last 3 matches for Udinese; with a really nifty winner against Sassoulo, after blasting home from long range against Roma.


----------



## Evilo

Classy goal from Gouiri in Germany with the U21


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Classy goal from Gouiri in Germany with the U21




Shame Moukoko couldn't find the right touch to get himself clear at the other end, but that was a nifty goal off a very clean counter attack and deserved win. You had the more talented team, though I liked how we fought back into it in the first half...missed the last half hour or so.


----------



## Ajacied

Brian Brobbey scored two nice goals to beat Belgium U21. Oranje was all over Belgium until Doku came in. He made Belgium so much more dangerous. Kid is a baller. 

Brobbey and Gravenberch get to join Oranje today, replacing Frenkie, Depay and Koopmeiners who all got injured. Why Simons didn’t get the call baffles me. He’s been the revelation of the Eredivisie for me so far.


----------



## John Pedro

Endrick scoring in Brasileirao u20 final


----------



## cgf

Raebiger, Bischof, Wanner, Ibrahimovic, Krattenmacher, Weiper, & di Benedetto, led our U18s to win the Vaclav-Jezek tourney over Czechia, Slovakia, Mexico, Finland, & the USA...despite Laurin Ulrich missing the tourney due to injury.


----------



## John Pedro

I honestly don't know anything about these kids other than they all look huge for that age group and the talent level is absurd lol


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

John Pedro said:


> I honestly don't know anything about these kids other than they all look huge for that age group and the talent level is absurd lol





Are you sure those are 12 year olds? They look like they could pass for at least 14 or 15, if not older. There’s only like one kid in that play that looks like he could be 12.


----------



## luiginb

What a shame for a friendly, 4 red cards and killer faults like this one. France U18 coach should lose his job.


----------



## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Are you sure those are 12 year olds? They look like they could pass for at least 14 or 15, if not older. There’s only like one kid in that play that looks like he could be 12.



they look taller on the clip but they sure are u13 by this pic. plus that game was for Paulista u13, which is a very reliable tournament so it's extremely unlikely they would be over age limit, the other side also make them look bigger and mature


----------



## cgf

Diehl, Damar, & Tohumcu have really stood out in a good way for the u19s. 

Frauendorf almost opened the scoring as well.


----------



## cgf

No Moukoko, no Burkardt, no ABK, while Knauff & Netz are only on the bench. Definitely more of a B-team U21 squad, but Atubolu, Dardai, Thiaw, Stiller, Samardzic, and Thielmann are interesting talents...as are Leweling, Alidou, Krauß, & Martel, on the bench; alongside the aforementioned Knauff & Netz.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Best U20 footballer in the world. Youngest ever captain in the Bundesliga and also for Dortmund. Gonna start for England at the World Cup. Arguably their best player already.

It’s so funny now looking back on how people were upset Birmingham retired his jersey at age 17. They knew then. They should be applauded for the early call.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Best U20 footballer in the world. Youngest ever captain in the Bundesliga and also for Dortmund. Gonna start for England at the World Cup. Arguably their best player already.
> 
> It’s so funny now looking back on how people were upset Birmingham retired his jersey at age 17. They knew then. They should be applauded for the early call.





...he's not even the best teenager in the BuLi...


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

wrong thread


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> ...he's not even the best teenager in the BuLi...




Gio, Mouki, and JBG are great players, but Jude is a different level.

In all seriousness, hard to put Wirtz ahead of him with the injury. The margins are so slim, and missing that much time matters. Musiala, likely a toss-up. Jude has been playing at this level for longer though. It’s great that the Bundesliga finally seems to have most of the biggest up and coming talents.


----------



## Evilo

No it doesn't.
This is still easily Ligue 1.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> No it doesn't.
> This is still easily Ligue 1.




FWI he said most of the biggest up n comers, not most young talent in general.


With kids like Musiala, Wirtz, Bellingham, Adeyemi, Szoboszlai, Gvardiol, Reyna, Davies, Gravenberch, Tel, Kone, Rutter, Wanner, Moukoko, Hlozek, Sesko, etc. the BuLi does have a lot of the top young talents right now.

Ligue 1 may be deeper when we get past each league's top 10/20 young talents and may be stronger when we get to the top talents at the academy level, but at the top of those senior-level lists, I wouldn't be surprised if the BuLi had a strong case.



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Gio, Mouki, and JBG are great players, but Jude is a different level.
> 
> In all seriousness, hard to put Wirtz ahead of him with the injury. The margins are so slim, and missing that much time matters. Musiala, likely a toss-up. Jude has been playing at this level for longer though. It’s great that the Bundesliga finally seems to have most of the biggest up and coming talents.




To me, Musiala was closer to Bellingham last season -- and was arguably better in the second half of the season -- than Jude is to Jamal this season (so far); while Musiala has hit the higher heights. 

He might not sustain at this level, but atm I can't give the nod to anyone but Musiala. He's not just Bayern's best player this season, he's been the best player in the league.

...other than Becker...


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> FWI he said most of the biggest up n comers, not most young talent in general.
> 
> 
> With kids like Musiala, Wirtz, Bellingham, Adeyemi, Szoboszlai, Gvardiol, Reyna, Davies, Gravenberch, Tel, Kone, Rutter, Wanner, Moukoko, Hlozek, Sesko, etc. the BuLi does have a lot of the top young talents right now.
> 
> Ligue 1 may be deeper when we get past each league's top 10/20 young talents and may be stronger when we get to the top talents at the academy level, but at the top of those senior-level lists, I wouldn't be surprised if the BuLi had a strong case.
> 
> 
> 
> To me, Musiala was closer to Bellingham last season -- and was arguably better in the second half of the season -- than Jude is to Jamal this season (so far); while Musiala has hit the higher heights.
> 
> He might not sustain at this level, but atm I can't give the nod to anyone but Musiala. He's not just Bayern's best player this season, he's been the best player in the league.
> 
> ...other than Becker...



Yeah I disagree. 
And lol at including Sesko. If you include him you can write off Bellingham.


----------



## Nairolfi

Evilo said:


> Yeah I disagree.
> And lol at including Sesko. If you include him you can write off Bellingham.



Alone Musiala, Bellingham and Wirtz are way better than any other talent from Ligue 1


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Yeah I disagree.
> And lol at including Sesko. If you include him you can write off Bellingham.




So what's Ligue 1's top 10/20?

And isn't Sesko joining RB this winter?

EDIT:
Looks like you were right. I thought Sesko was joining in the winter window, not next summer. Strike him from the list.


----------



## Evilo

Nairolfi said:


> Alone Musiala, Bellingham and Wirtz are way better than any other talent from Ligue 1







cgf said:


> So what's Ligue 1's top 10/20?
> 
> And isn't Sesko joining RB this winter?
> 
> EDIT:
> Looks like you were right. I thought Sesko was joining in the winter window, not next summer. Strike him from the list.








Ligue 1 2022-2023


"not slow starters" Monaco are getting destroyed at home by one of the weakest teams in the league Troyes.




forums.hfboards.com




Depends on the cutoff date, depends if you judge on potential or now level (you seemed to include players from all around)...

Now, here's something to think about. 5-6 years ago, you were singing the same tune. You were hyping tons of young players from the Buli etc...
Can you name the star players that came out of the Buli in the last 5 years vs the ones coming out of L1?


----------



## Nairolfi

Evilo said:


>



lol better name someone before you laugh


----------



## Evilo

Nairolfi said:


> lol better name someone before you laugh



Try to watch L1 and not just Buli that'll help.
For instance, we have the best young LB and already top 3 LB in the world in L1. He's already world class. None of the three players you named are top 3 at their position. Not even top 5.


----------



## Nairolfi

Evilo said:


> Try to watch L1 and not just Buli that'll help.
> For instance, we have the best young LB and already top 3 LB in the world in L1. He's already world class. None of the three players you named are top 3 at their position. Not even top 5.



And what do you want to tell me? That it is way easier to be a top 3 LB of the world, if Mendes really is top 3, than to be one of the best midfielders in the world, right? If we compare market values Musiala and Bellingham are both Top 3 in their position, Mendes is not. Wirtz easily could be if he didn't get injured.


----------



## Evilo

I don't care about market value. He's English. 

If you think Musiala and Jude are top 3 at their positions, this conversation doesn't need to go on.


----------



## Nairolfi

Evilo said:


> I don't care about market value. He's English.
> 
> If you think Musiala and Jude are top 3 at their positions, this conversation doesn't need to go on.



Even if not that doesn't change anything who is better between Mendes and Musiala, Bellingham, Wirtz. And I can assure you it's not Mendes lol


----------



## Evilo

Lol indeed.
Not counting Vitinha, Caqueret, Doku, Majer, or even the potential best young player in the world Warren Zaire Emery.
Among an army of others.


----------



## Nairolfi

Evilo said:


> Lol indeed.
> Not counting Vitinha, Caqueret, Doku, Majer, or even the potential best young player in the world Warren Zaire Emery.
> Among an army of others.



Yeah, I would take the group cgf named all day.


----------



## Evilo

You'd take the group you know, that's it.
You would have taken the group he talked about 6 years ago too.

I can add multiple players like David, Lukeba (one of the top young CB in the game), Gusto is the top crosser in Europe at RB, Cherki before today was decisive every 70 minutes and yet 0 start, Camara made the transition from Salzburg with ease, Wahi is one of the top scoring young players in the game already, Todibo is a rock, Thuram is the new Tchouameni, Bitshiabu is the most crazy CB prospect in the world, Gouiri is one the most productive young players in the game already, Desire Doue is the next Rennes phenom, Sulemana is Doku bis, Odobert torched the youth league and now if already producing at 18, etc, etc, etc...

Get to know these guys and then we can talk.


----------



## Nairolfi

Evilo said:


> You'd take the group you know, that's it.
> You would have taken the group he talked about 6 years ago too.
> 
> I can add multiple players like David, Lukeba (one of the top young CB in the game), Gusto is the top crosser in Europe at RB, Cherki before today was decisive every 70 minutes and yet 0 start, Camara made the transition from Salzburg with ease, Wahi is one of the top scoring young players in the game already, Todibo is a rock, Thuram is the new Tchouameni, Bitshiabu is the most crazy CB prospect in the world, Gouiri is one the most productive young players in the game already, Desire Doue is the next Rennes phenom, Sulemana is Doku bis, Odobert torched the youth league and now if already producing at 18, etc, etc, etc...
> 
> Get to know these guys and then we can talk.



It's ok. You have your opinion I have mine


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> You'd take the group you know, that's it.
> You would have taken the group he talked about 6 years ago too.
> 
> I can add multiple players like David, Lukeba (one of the top young CB in the game), Gusto is the top crosser in Europe at RB, Cherki before today was decisive every 70 minutes and yet 0 start, Camara made the transition from Salzburg with ease, Wahi is one of the top scoring young players in the game already, Todibo is a rock, Thuram is the new Tchouameni, Bitshiabu is the most crazy CB prospect in the world, Gouiri is one the most productive young players in the game already, Desire Doue is the next Rennes phenom, Sulemana is Doku bis, Odobert torched the youth league and now if already producing at 18, etc, etc, etc...
> 
> Get to know these guys and then we can talk.



How would you compare Thuram vs Manu Kone?


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Ligue 1 2022-2023
> 
> 
> "not slow starters" Monaco are getting destroyed at home by one of the weakest teams in the league Troyes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forums.hfboards.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the cutoff date, depends if you judge on potential or now level (you seemed to include players from all around)...
> 
> Now, here's something to think about. 5-6 years ago, you were singing the same tune. You were hyping tons of young players from the Buli etc...
> Can you name the star players that came out of the Buli in the last 5 years vs the ones coming out of L1?




...5-6 years ago we were in the midst of the post-96er down period and I was on here downplaying Havertz...


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> You'd take the group you know, that's it.
> You would have taken the group he talked about 6 years ago too.
> 
> I can add multiple players like David, Lukeba (one of the top young CB in the game), Gusto is the top crosser in Europe at RB, Cherki before today was decisive every 70 minutes and yet 0 start, Camara made the transition from Salzburg with ease, Wahi is one of the top scoring young players in the game already, Todibo is a rock, Thuram is the new Tchouameni, Bitshiabu is the most crazy CB prospect in the world, Gouiri is one the most productive young players in the game already, Desire Doue is the next Rennes phenom, Sulemana is Doku bis, Odobert torched the youth league and now if already producing at 18, etc, etc, etc...
> 
> Get to know these guys and then we can talk.






Evilo said:


> Lol indeed.
> Not counting Vitinha, Caqueret, Doku, Majer, or even the potential best young player in the world Warren Zaire Emery.
> Among an army of others.




The conversation wasn't about depth, just the top of the top. Caqueret is great, and like Mendes I wouldn't fight you on putting in the same tier as Wirtz, Musiala, & Bellingham.

Though I'd still take the BuLi's trio over Ligue 1's duo, not just because it would be 3 v 2 but also because I rate Musiala the highest of that quintet and LBs generally aren't as influential as 10s or 8s of a similar caliber.


...while the rest of those kids that I've seen enough of to have opinions about are either more in the Adeyemi, Gravenberch, Szobo, Gvardiol, etc. tier (Doku, Gouri, Vitinha, Camara, etc.), or are much further away like Moukoko, Tel, Wanner, etc. (Emery).

That said, I wouldn't fight you (hard) on putting Emery a top the group of not yet senior-level stars, though I would remind you of what Mouki looked like when he was still breaking through from the academy level, Emery looks like he could be absolutely amazing.



But again, I wasn't saying that the BuLi is definitely the best. I was just saying that the BuLi could have a strong case because I was curious to see how Ligue 1 & La Liga stacked up. That's why I wrote:



cgf said:


> Ligue 1 may be deeper when we get past each league's top 10/20 young talents and may be stronger when we get to the top talents at the academy level, but at the top of those senior-level lists, I wouldn't be surprised if the BuLi had a strong case.


----------



## Evilo

Savant said:


> How would you compare Thuram vs Manu Kone?



I like Thuram more.



cgf said:


> ...5-6 years ago we were in the midst of the post-96er down period and I was on here downplaying Havertz...



Make that 10. When Draxler, Gotze, and all of them. Then Dahoud, Weigl, etc...
How many of the players you hyped became stars out of Buli?

Heck, even substracting your opinion (we all make mistakes of being too enthousiastic), how many players became stars after being trained as teenagers in Buli over the last 10-15 years?


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> I like Thuram more.
> 
> 
> Make that 10. When Draxler, Gotze, and all of them. Then Dahoud, Weigl, etc...
> How many of the players you hyped became stars out of Buli?
> 
> Heck, even substracting your opinion (we all make mistakes of being too enthousiastic), how many players became stars after being trained as teenagers in Buli over the last 10-15 years?




Dozens, maybe hundreds? 

I'm not infallible (usually), but I've been right a lot more often than I've been wrong if you look back at my lists


----------



## Evilo

Give me that list !
I have a hard time finding any Buli player shining in another league to the point where they're considered world class/ superstars.
Lewa came to Buli and became a star there, but you can't say he came from a german academy. Same for Dembele, Haaland, Nkunku or others.
Havertz is not shining, clearly. Sancho neither. Werner failed. Draxler failed. Keita failed.

So who?
Maybe Firmino if you consider him a star (arguable)? Kroos is one, 8 years ago.
Can't think of anyone else really...


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Give me that list !
> I have a hard time finding any Buli player shining in another league to the point where they're considered world class/ superstars.
> Lewa came to Buli and became a star there, but you can't say he came from a german academy. Same for Dembele, Haaland, Nkunku or others.
> Havertz is not shining, clearly. Sancho neither. Werner failed. Draxler failed. Keita failed.
> 
> So who?
> Maybe Firmino if you consider him a star (arguable)? Kroos is one, 8 years ago.
> Can't think of anyone else really...




I can put it together for you sometime, but this is far from the initial question which had to do with which league currently has the most top tier young stars / which league's top 10-20 young players is most impressive right now.

None of us mentioned the academies they came from, or how those leagues did a decade ago...when our WC-winners had just started breaking through...


----------



## Evilo

My point is that Germany hasn't proven at any recent time they can produce anything close to what L1 is producing every year. 
And even including the sometimes enthousiastic nature of perception you or others can have. 
Ligue 1 may be highly underrated here but one thing can not be overlooked is the yearly crop of players coming from there and beasting in other leagues. 
We produce world class / star players every single year. 
Great if your 3 guys are shining. Doesn't mean they'll be any better than what we have here.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> My point is that Germany hasn't proven at any recent time they can produce anything close to what L1 is producing every year.
> And even including the sometimes enthousiastic nature of perception you or others can have.
> Ligue 1 may be highly underrated here but one thing can not be overlooked is the yearly crop of players coming from there and beasting in other leagues.
> We produce world class / star players every single year.
> Great if your 3 guys are shining. Doesn't mean they'll be any better than what we have here.




All I ever said is that PB was saying that they're better right now, you're the one moving the goalposts because Ligue 1 wouldn't come out ahead in this one comparison


----------



## Evilo

Well I'm not moving the goalposts I'm telling you I disagree and give you arguments why


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Well I'm not moving the goalposts I'm telling you I disagree and give you arguments why




Dude, you responded to a discussion about who has the best young stars at present by bringing up the distant past and the future...that's not disagreeing with what was said, that's having your own conversation at best and lazy strawman'ing at worst.

If you wanted to disagree you'd be making a case for Ligue 1 having more kids on Musiala / Wirtz / Bellingham's level, rather than listing a bunch of Szobo / Gvardiol / Gravenberch / Adeyemi -level kids & trying to change the topic.


----------



## bluesfan94

cgf said:


> Dude, you responded to a discussion about who has the best young stars at present by bringing up the distant past and the future...that's not disagreeing with what was said, that's having your own conversation at best and lazy strawman'ing at worst.
> 
> If you wanted to disagree you'd be making a case for Ligue 1 having more kids on Musiala / Wirtz / Bellingham's level, rather than listing a bunch of Szobo / Gvardiol / Gravenberch / Adeyemi -level kids & trying to change the topic.



Where would you put Davies in that dichotomy? I think there's an argument that he's in the upper bracket due to his position.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> I have a hard time finding any Buli player shining in another league to the point where they're considered world class/ superstars.



Son is the first one that came to mind. Also Alaba. There are also a handful of players who may not have started in Bundesliga but certainly developed further there: KdB, Nkunku, Haaland, Bellingham, Sancho, Musiala, Davies, Hakimi.


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> Dude, you responded to a discussion about who has the best young stars at present by bringing up the distant past and the future...that's not disagreeing with what was said, that's having your own conversation at best and lazy strawman'ing at worst.
> 
> If you wanted to disagree you'd be making a case for Ligue 1 having more kids on Musiala / Wirtz / Bellingham's level, rather than listing a bunch of Szobo / Gvardiol / Gravenberch / Adeyemi -level kids & trying to change the topic.



I gave you the list and also the fact that historically you've made such claims only to fall flat on your face 
That's not moving the goalposts, that's just obvious arguments.


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> Son is the first one that came to mind. Also Alaba. There are also a handful of players who may not have started in Bundesliga but certainly developed further there: KdB, Nkunku, Haaland, Bellingham, Sancho, Musiala, Davies, Hakimi.



Please read my posts. 
Son and Alaba are fair names. Rest aren't. 
Haaland was already a star, KdB was recruited by Chelsea, Sancho is failing outside Buli as noted up there. Hakimi shone more in Italy. And even then those one year hiatus as development are hilarious. 
Musiala, Davies and Jude were already talked about. 
Nkunku is a good bet but he's not a star and has yet to prove himself out of Buli. 

So we're left with 4 names over 10 years.


----------



## luiginb

No matter how big of a homer one is, there's no bigger u21 names right now in Ligue 1 than Bellingham, Musiala, Wirtz or Gvardiol. Mendes is the first that comes to mind but he's been slightly underwhelming in the Champions League when facing the best of the best.


----------



## Evilo

Lol, Mendes and Vitinha are just as good, but your L1 "homerism" is well known.
Guys like Gvardiol are yearly products in L1.
Lukeba is just as good but you simply don't know him.
You should not confuse "bigger names" in HF circles with ignorance of L1 players who prove "homers" wrong year after year.


----------



## Evilo

Gvardiol has 12 Croatian caps. 
Lovro Majer, someone you guys barely know has 10.

Sometimes, the bigger names aren't the best players...

Also I remember certain "homers" saying Saliba or Tchouameni were "underwhelming". 

They're now commenting again on players they don't know much about. No lesson learnt.


----------



## Nairolfi

Evilo said:


> Lol, *Mendes and Vitinha are just as good*, but your L1 "homerism" is well known.
> Guys like Gvardiol are yearly products in L1.
> Lukeba is just as good but you simply don't know him.
> You should not confuse "bigger names" in HF circles with ignorance of L1 players who prove "homers" wrong year after year.



Just stop, it's getting really ridiculous.


----------



## Evilo

It is indeed. 
I don't think there are any young MF better than Vitinha for instance. 
And as I told you before Mendes is a top 3 LB. 

The joke's on you man and you'll realize it in the future.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Please read my posts.
> Son and Alaba are fair names. Rest aren't.
> Haaland was already a star, KdB was recruited by Chelsea, Sancho is failing outside Buli as noted up there. Hakimi shone more in Italy. And even then those one year hiatus as development are hilarious.
> Musiala, Davies and Jude were already talked about.
> Nkunku is a good bet but he's not a star and has yet to prove himself out of Buli.
> 
> So we're left with 4 names over 10 years.



In that case, I assume we’re not counting Mbappe for France? If the argument is that the Bundesliga is able to keep more of its talent, that’s a different conversation. 

Sancho has looked better this year and being thrust into the dysfunction of Man United is hardly a fair way of judging. 

By the way, the question you posed wasn’t where someone shined more but rather whether they went from the BL to shine in another league. As I said, it’s fair to say that the Bundesliga may not have had the best academies but is a good finishing school. 

KdB for instance was recruited by Chelsea, then immediately loaned to Bremen, but he developed into a star not at Chelsea but rather at Wolfsburg.



Evilo said:


> It is indeed.
> I don't think there are any young MF better than Vitinha for instance.
> And as I told you before Mendes is a top 3 LB.
> 
> The joke's on you man and you'll realize it in the future.



In the same way that you discount KdB and Haaland, shouldn’t Mendes and Vitinha be discounted?


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> I gave you the list and also the fact that historically you've made such claims only to fall flat on your face
> That's not moving the goalposts, that's just obvious arguments.




Exactly. You made the list, realized Ligue 1 was second best to the BuLi (and La Liga), and then started to change the topic because your ego couldn't handle Ligue 1 not being first


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> In that case, I assume we’re not counting Mbappe for France? If the argument is that the Bundesliga is able to keep more of its talent, that’s a different conversation.
> 
> Sancho has looked better this year and being thrust into the dysfunction of Man United is hardly a fair way of judging.
> 
> By the way, the question you posed wasn’t where someone shined more but rather whether they went from the BL to shine in another league. As I said, it’s fair to say that the Bundesliga may not have had the best academies but is a good finishing school.
> 
> KdB for instance was recruited by Chelsea, then immediately loaned to Bremen, but he developed into a star not at Chelsea but rather at Wolfsburg.
> 
> 
> In the same way that you discount KdB and Haaland, shouldn’t Mendes and Vitinha be discounted?



Actually my question was someone produced in Germany and who shined elsewhere, again, read my posts.
Sancho is playing nowhere like a star player.

And you're mixing everything again, jumping ONCE again in a conversation you haven't followed just to try to harass me (sigh).
So let me break it down to you :
cgf said the Buli had the best youth.
To which I said no, it's still L1.
Then he said Buli has the top 10-12 prospects.
To which I answered, no, look at name X or Y (here Vitinha and Mendes come in).
And I added that L1 produces class player every year while Buli doesn't. That's where I tried to find players who were produced out of Buli academies and became stars there. And I can't think of anyone outside Kroos (and you added Alaba) who became stars out of Buli's academies over the last 10+ years.
Then cgf said Buli has the best 3-4 names (to which I answered that underrating guys like Mendes, Caqueret, Majer, Vitinha or others is typical but wrong).

And now, @cgf accuses ME of moving the goal posts 



cgf said:


> Exactly. You made the list, realized Ligue 1 was second best to the BuLi (and La Liga), and then started to change the topic because your ego couldn't handle Ligue 1 not being first



My ego's just fine.
Your couldn't cope with my argument about Buli academies producing few class players, that's it.
Caqueret dominated City's midfield at age 19 IIRC. On a much worse team than City too.
Find me a Buli player who didn't the same. Jude, Musiala, anyone.
And yet, some idiots would laugh at me for saying Jude=Caqueret
That's the difference between name and quality.
Bellingham is certainly a quality player. But we have plenty of quality here as well. The fact you don't know them doesn't mean you're right.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> And you're mixing everything again, jumping ONCE again in a conversation you haven't followed just to try to harass me (sigh).



I've followed along just fine. The conversation went from who has the best youth to you bringing up the Bundesliga's past production. I provided a couple names and then added more which depend on the way you define "produced." Which is fine; I don't really have a dog in this fight. It has nothing to do with harassing you and everything to do with joining a conversation. I haven't even said I disagree with you, I'm just adding to the discussion, but apparently that's harassment to you (cue the dramatic sigh). 


Evilo said:


> That's where I tried to find players who were produced out of Buli academies and became stars there. And I can't think of anyone outside Kroos (and you added Alaba) who became stars out of Buli's academies over the last 10+ years.



Specifically, you said players produced out of BuLi academies and are no longer in the BuLi, otherwise players like Sane, Gnabry, Hummels, Kimmich, Neuer, Reus, etc. would count. I also provided Son and another name that just came to mind is Ter Stegen. Also Gundogan. Ozil. Matip. But that's a different conversation than who has the better youth now. 

In terms of answering that question, looking at the top 25 most valuable u21 players on Transfermarkt (which is hardly definitive), the breakdown is as follows:
*EPL: *7 (Saka, Martinelli, Onana, Gordon, Saliba, Elliott, Fofana)
*Serie A: *1 (Kvaratskhelia)
*La Liga:* 6 (Pedri, Gavi, Rodrygo, Fati, Camavinga, Pino)
*Ligue 1: *2 (Badiashile, Mendes)
*Bundesliga: *8 (Gravenberch, Adeyemi, Reyna, Bellingham, Musiala, Wirtz, Davies, Gvardiol)
*Eredivisie: *1 (Timber) 

If you change it to u23:
*EPL:* 11 (Haaland, Foden, Rice, TAA, Antony, Sancho, Mount, Nunez, Saka, Havertz, Fofana)
*Serie A: *2 (Leao, Vlahovic))
*La Liga: *6 (Vinicius, Pedri, Tchouameni, Gavi, Felix, Rodrygo)
*Ligue 1*: 1 (Mbappe)
*Bundesliga: *5 (Bellingham, Musiala, Wirtz, Davies, De Ligt)

Now, to reiterate, I don't necessarily agree with Transfermarkt player values, nor is a player's current value indicative of future value (the weight of precociousness vs potential). Those are simply numbers, not harassment. 

Now, to circle back to the original point I was commenting on, I don't think the ideal way of judging current youth talent is by looking at past performance of players who have left the league. That just rewards leagues who are less able to retain their talent and punishes those who keep their talent home.


----------



## Evilo

And you're back to square 1.
Tell me how many of Tchouameni, Fofana or Saliba were rated that much on transfermarket before leaving L1? 
The answer is none. 
And yet will you tell me they suddenly became world class during the summer of their signing to the EPL or liga? 
Transfermarkt is simply an awful way to evaluate talent.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> And you're back to square 1.
> Tell me how many of Tchouameni, Fofana or Saliba were rated that much on transfermarket before leaving L1?
> The answer is none.
> And yet will you tell me they suddenly became world class during the summer of their signing to the EPL or liga?
> Transfermarkt is simply an awful way to evaluate talent.



Tchouameni's market value when he was signed by Real Madrid was 66M. Fofana's value when he left St. Etienne was 11M. Saliba's value when Arsenal first bought him was 13.2M. It was 33M when he left Marseille. Turns out developing more and proving it in a bigger league/on a bigger team increases your value. Who knew?

As for the rest of your post, I can understand if you missed these comments:


bluesfan94 said:


> In terms of answering that question, looking at the top 25 most valuable u21 players on *Transfermarkt (which is hardly definitive)*





bluesfan94 said:


> Now, to reiterate,* I don't necessarily agree with Transfermarkt player values, nor is a player's current value indicative of future value (the weight of precociousness vs potential). *




I can't help but notice you missed the additional names I added and the point about the foolishness of the metric.


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> Tchouameni's market value when he was signed by Real Madrid was 66M. Fofana's value when he left St. Etienne was 11M. Saliba's value when Arsenal first bought him was 13.2M. It was 33M when he left Marseille. Turns out developing more and proving it in a bigger league/on a bigger team increases your value. Who knew?
> 
> As for the rest of your post, I can understand if you missed these comments:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't help but notice you missed the additional names I added and the point about the foolishness of the metric.



Developping more?
Lol
Fofana, Saliba and Tchouameni were all world class when they joined.
You guys just didn't know it.
Heck you wouldn't know Caqueret if he hadn't toyed with City in the CL. 
They didn't "develop" in a summer before joining their new team.

Oh I saw your comment about Transfermarkt only to still give them as an example something nobody would do since they mean nothing.

As for the other names Ter Stegen is indeed on, Ozil was way before that I think, Gundogan is another good name. Don't see Matip there though tbh.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> They didn't "develop" in a summer before joining their new team.



Saliba spent two years on loan. Fofana spent a couple years in Leicester. Tchouameni is different, but again, proving you can do it in a bigger league on a big team is worth something. 


Evilo said:


> As for the other names Ter Stegen is indeed on, Ozil was way before that I think, Gundogan is another good name. Don't see Matip there though tbh.



It really depends on where you draw the line; Matip was very very good for Liverpool a couple years back. Does that rise to the level of "class"? Well, that all depends on the definition.


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> Saliba spent two years on loan. Fofana spent a couple years in Leicester. Tchouameni is different, but again, proving you can do it in a bigger league on a big team is worth something.
> 
> It really depends on where you draw the line; Matip was very very good for Liverpool a couple years back. Does that rise to the level of "class"? Well, that all depends on the definition.



Saliba spent 6 months not playing at Arsenal and was just as good before as he is now. 
That you think he developed suddenly is laughable. And quite ignorant tbh. Anyone who saw him play at 18 would tell you that. 
Fofana at Leicester? Sorry? He was possibly the best CB in the EPL the day he stepped foot at Leicester. They didn't make him world class in two years. EPL fans will tell you he stepped in as their key player instantly. 

Won't argue over Matip but yeah I don't see him in the upper class of players. But don't mind people who do.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Saliba spent 6 months not playing at Arsenal and was just as good before as he is now.
> That you think he developed suddenly is laughable. And quite ignorant tbh. Anyone who saw him play at 18 would tell you that.



You don't think Saliba has improved a single iota since Arsenal originally signed him? Interesting take, not sure I'd agree. I did not say, and you can go back and re-read if you're confused, that Saliba developed at Arsenal. I said he developed further since the day he signed. Ironically, if you look at his TM market value, his six month spell not playing senior football at Arsenal (as a reminder, he did play for the PL2 side) shows in his value; it was 24.75M coming back from St. Etienne and 18.7M when he left for Nice. 


Evilo said:


> Fofana at Leicester? Sorry? He was possibly the best CB in the EPL the day he stepped foot at Leicester. They didn't make him world class in two years. EPL fans will tell you he stepped in as their key player instantly.



Yes, he stepped in as a key player for Leicester. He was not the best CB in the EPL that day, nor is he currently the best CB in the EPL. Another player who stepped in as a key player for Leicester was Soyuncu, who is now stapled to the bench.


----------



## Evilo

I don't think Saliba has progressed so much that he went from a no name player on Transfermarkt to WC uber expensive player, no. He progressed like any player would, but at 18, he was already Arsenal's best CB, something I told you guys but wouldn't believe because you prefered to defend Arteta.
I know you didn't say he developped at Arsenal. But he didn't develop more at Nice or OM than he was at St Etienne. Just the natural curve of progress, but he was already mad good.
Fofana stepped in and was in the discussion for best CB in the EPL in many circles, including on HFB.
So, I wouldn't say Leicester developped him. Especially since he missed most of last season with a big injury (and to this day he hasn't reached his St Etienne or Leicester year 1 level yet).


----------



## luiginb

Lovro Majer is 24, he's not a prospect anymore by any means. And Lol at Caqueret = Bellingham, he's gonna have to die at Lyon for Evilo to realise he's just above average (and 22 too, not 19 like the English wonderkid). And another lol at Fofana (who I love and noticed him since his days at st etienne) being the best CB in England and not rating Matip. 

I do agree with him on Sancho, such a disappointment, and transfermarkt's unfair lower ratings for Ligue 1 players, but I guess that's what you get when you are just the 5th best league in Europe.


----------



## Evilo

Yeah, you need to read what I wrote again.. sigh...

I gave you the Majer example because he's not hyped at all here.
As for Caqueret, LOL at someone here comparing Jude and Caqueret's performances against City and not realizing that Caqueret is quite the player himself. Makes you wonder if people watch the game at all or have any comprehension of what's going on. But maybe City isn't good enough to prove yourself? You know "underwhelming in the CL" stuff?

As for Fofana, I quite clearly said that when he stepped into Leicester's lineup at 18, he was deemed, everywhere, including here by HFB EPL fans to be among the best if not the best CB that year.
Now of course, maybe you're thinking about his last season in the stands 
Matip never had a season like Fofana showed in his FIRST SEASON AT 18.

As for Transfermarkt, I don't care how they rate people, they can do that as long as they want. Probably done by FIFA gamers who think McTominay is better than Camavinga.
It bothers me more when people use them as tools to evaluate players in arguments here.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> I don't think Saliba has progressed so much that he went from a no name player on Transfermarkt to WC uber expensive player, no. He progressed like any player would, but at 18, he was already Arsenal's best CB, something I told you guys but wouldn't believe because you prefered to defend Arteta.
> I know you didn't say he developped at Arsenal. But he didn't develop more at Nice or OM than he was at St Etienne. Just the natural curve of progress, but he was already mad good.
> Fofana stepped in and was in the discussion for best CB in the EPL in many circles, including on HFB.
> So, I wouldn't say Leicester developped him. Especially since he missed most of last season with a big injury (and to this day he hasn't reached his St Etienne or Leicester year 1 level yet).



Is the natural curve of progress different than developing?


----------



## Evilo

Yes.
Especially given the argument you made about Transfermarkt.
Let me re-say it : Saliba was world class when he joined Arsenal the first time.
Except he would have been ranked WC nowhere in Transfermarkt, HFB, FIFA, FM or any other "evaluation" because he was in L1.
You can add Bruno Guimaeres. He was WC (I'd say even before Lyon) and with Caqueret (rated low in most "evaluations" like the ones above) and Aouar (right now rated extremely low) they bossed Juventus, City and to some extent Bayern in the CL two years ago. I don't doubt for a second that they had a midfield rated WAYYYYYYYY lower than those three teams.
And make no mistake that's where Lyon won (and could have against Bayern) those games : in midfield.
Bruno is now suddenly WC everywhere because he's in the EPL.

Natural curve and development aren't the same thing because development means hitting low points. Progress is rarely linear. Some also peak extremely young and don't take that next step.
Some, OTOH, break out older because they met the right coach and developped in a proper situation. Clauss comes to mind. He was an amateur football most of his career, he's now on the french NT at age 28. That's not natural curve, but it is development.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> You can add Bruno Guimaeres. He was WC (I'd say even before Lyon) and with Caqueret (rated low in most "evaluations" like the ones above) and Aouar (right now rated extremely low) they bossed Juventus, City and to some extent Bayern in the CL two years ago. I don't doubt for a second that they had a midfield rated WAYYYYYYYY lower than those three teams.



Basing your argument on one game seems pretty foolish. 


Evilo said:


> Yes.
> Especially given the argument you made about Transfermarkt.



I'm not making any argument about Transfermarkt. You're making up an argument that I'm making so you have something else to focus on. I think developing and progressing are essentially the same thing so I guess that's where we're talking past each other.


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> Basing your argument on one game seems pretty foolish.
> 
> I'm not making any argument about Transfermarkt. You're making up an argument that I'm making so you have something else to focus on. I think developing and progressing are essentially the same thing so I guess that's where we're talking past each other.



Erh I just gave you 3 games against some of the best teams in the game in the biggest competition in the game and I watch him every week.
That's your argument?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I don’t know what’s being said about Sancho, but he wasn’t overhyped.

He was more important for our team than Haaland when he was here. It’s too bad what has happened, but I don’t think how good he was when he was at his best should be overlooked


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Actually my question was someone produced in Germany and who shined elsewhere, again, read my posts.
> Sancho is playing nowhere like a star player.
> 
> And you're mixing everything again, jumping ONCE again in a conversation you haven't followed just to try to harass me (sigh).
> So let me break it down to you :
> cgf said the Buli had the best youth.
> To which I said no, it's still L1.
> Then he said Buli has the top 10-12 prospects.
> To which I answered, no, look at name X or Y (here Vitinha and Mendes come in).
> And I added that L1 produces class player every year while Buli doesn't. That's where I tried to find players who were produced out of Buli academies and became stars there. And I can't think of anyone outside Kroos (and you added Alaba) who became stars out of Buli's academies over the last 10+ years.
> Then cgf said Buli has the best 3-4 names (to which I answered that underrating guys like Mendes, Caqueret, Majer, Vitinha or others is typical but wrong).
> 
> And now, @cgf accuses ME of moving the goal posts
> 
> 
> My ego's just fine.
> Your couldn't cope with my argument about Buli academies producing few class players, that's it.
> Caqueret dominated City's midfield at age 19 IIRC. On a much worse team than City too.
> Find me a Buli player who didn't the same. Jude, Musiala, anyone.
> And yet, some idiots would laugh at me for saying Jude=Caqueret
> That's the difference between name and quality.
> Bellingham is certainly a quality player. But we have plenty of quality here as well. The fact you don't know them doesn't mean you're right.




Evilo, you know I'm super tolerant of your s*** and always fight to keep you around because I recognize that just because you are always prickly, or your english isn't quite good enough to always understand how harshly you come across to others, that doesn't mean that you're always the antagonist when drama happens around you...but you are being the asshole here.

We were having a very specific conversation about leagues having the most elite young stars right now...not in the past, not who will have the most young stars in X years, not which academies those stars came from, not which academies produce the most talent in general, and not anything else that you have brought up to defend Ligue 1 since interjecting. 

None of that s*** was relevant to the very specific conversation at hand. But that didn't stop you from jumping in...presumably, because PB's point wasn't hyping Ligue 1 enough for your liking...and because you did it in your typical dickish way, people started talking s***; which led to you bringing up all of that crap that had nothing to do with what we were talking about.


So chill out dude. French academies can be better than Jesus AND the BuLi can have more of the elite young stars *RIGHT NOW*. Those aren't mutually exclusive. Now put your dick away, we're measuring taints today.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I don’t know what’s being said about Sancho, but he wasn’t overhyped.
> 
> *He was more important for our team than Haaland when he was here.* It’s too bad what has happened, but I don’t think how good he was when he was at his best should be overlooked




...dude...


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> Evilo, you know I'm super tolerant of your s*** and always fight to keep you around because I recognize that just because you are always prickly, or your english isn't quite good enough to always understand how harshly you come across to others, that doesn't mean that you're always the antagonist when drama happens around you...but you are being the asshole here.
> 
> We were having a very specific conversation about leagues having the most elite young stars right now...not in the past, not who will have the most young stars in X years, not which academies those stars came from, not which academies produce the most talent in general, and not anything else that you have brought up to defend Ligue 1 since interjecting.
> 
> None of that s*** was relevant to the very specific conversation at hand. But that didn't stop you from jumping in...presumably, because PB's point wasn't hyping Ligue 1 enough for your liking...and because you did it in your typical dickish way, people started talking s***; which led to you bringing up all of that crap that had nothing to do with what we were talking about.



I tolerate your shit and uberhyping of every german kid wirting down essays because I like you and you're a good guy. Funny at times too.
But no, I made my points very clear.
I don't agree with your assessment. And ot prove that I told you how people underrate L1 players and prospects.
And since the guys you named are mostly from german academies, I made a point that even historically, even when you were overhyping every damn german academy players and being enthousiastic about a golden generation every 3 years, you were wrong because you ONLY see the biggest possible come togetherness of potential exploding to the max.
Which is why I used the academies example.

When you made comparisons and the other guys talked about "bigger names", it's just simply that : bigger names.
Caqueret had better CL apperances than Bellingham. (I do think Jude is better overall BTW, but in a certain pressing role, Caqueret is better)
Vitinha has NOTHING to be ashmed of when compared to Jude (on basically any part of his game really besides scoring).
Mendes is a better LB than Davies by a wide margin IMO.
Musiala is a damn fine prospect but he has a whopping 17 Buli goals in 64 games on a team that's scoring at will as well as 10 goals in 25 youth NT games when Amine Gouiri scored 36 L1 goals (and 16 assists) in 87 games as the main forward option in decent only team, as well as 40+8 in 54 youth NT games.

Names don't mean shit. And I would HARDLY be surprised if Gouiri and Vitinha have better careers than Musiala and Bellingham.
But, no doubt your two guys are the bigger names. But I don't care about names.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> And since the guys you named are mostly from german academies, I made a point that even historically, even when you were overhyping every damn german academy players and being enthousiastic about a golden generation every 3 years, you were wrong because you ONLY see the biggest possible come togetherness of potential exploding to the max.
> Which is why I used the academies example.



To be fair, the biggest youth names in L1 right now are from Portugal (Vitinha, Mendes), while the biggest names in BL are from England (Bellingham, Musiala).


----------



## Evilo

Names yes.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Mokouko doing better than Musiala in a vaccum for instance.
I expect Zaire-Emery to better than both Bellingham and Vitinha down the road.


And a guy like Desire Doue could be world class.
He just pressed, got the ball back and scored at the 89th minute to give his team a win in Europa tonight. At 17 years old. Uber talent.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> ...dude...




He was. 

Haaland is a better player now, but he was only there to score the goals until Sancho left. When Sancho left, Haaland did a little of the playmaking, but he did a lot less. Sancho was the guy that brought the ball up the field, created most of the goals, and scored some of them also. It was a bigger role than Haaland had.


----------



## gary69

Evilo said:


> Names don't mean shit. And I would HARDLY be surprised if *Gouiri* and Vitinha have better careers than Musiala and Bellingham.
> But, no doubt your two guys are the bigger names. But I don't care about names.




Who knows, Gouiri might end up having a better career than those two, but he certainly isn't on his way to any stardom as of now. He will be 23 in February and if you compare him to for example where Benzema was at same age, he is nowhere close.


----------



## Evilo

gary69 said:


> Who knows, Gouiri might end up having a better career than those two, but he certainly isn't on his way to any stardom as of now. He will be 23 in February and if you compare him to for example where Benzema was at same age, he is nowhere close.



He was given his chance way later. 
But he has produced more than Benz in every youth selection and when Benz started playing he was playing on the best L1 team with great players around him. 
He also lost a full year of development with a big injury.


----------



## robertmac43

MLS next pro provided a great oppurtunity for some young Canadians. Remember the name here Russell-Rowe will be in Europe in a couple years!


----------



## gary69

Evilo said:


> He was given his chance way later.
> But he has produced more than Benz in every youth selection and when Benz started playing he was playing on the best L1 team with great players around him.
> He also lost a full year of development with a big injury.




Sure, there are always reasons why some talented player doesn't reach his potential. But when considering whether someone is a star player, I don't think it matters at all what a player did as a youth player when at the age of almost 23 he hasn't even played for his senior NT team.

Benzema also wasn't a superstar in his first couple of seasons with Lyon, rather than conquered his place at the top of that team. We have seen nothing of the sorts from Gouiri so far, rather than fight his way to be the top dog in his team he has given up (again, for various reasons) and moved on to another team.

Again, I'm not ruling out him becoming a great player still. It took Thierry Henry until about same age to become one of the best players in the world after moving away from Juve, but even by then Henry had played a lot more for the NT and at a higher club level. 

Gouiri clearly is running out of time to become a star in the global sense. But maybe he still can be a regular 20 goal per season player for the next decade to reach Benzema level impact on the game, but it's starting to look doubtful.


----------



## Evilo

Your argument about NT is influenced by the depth France has. 
When Henry joined France had 0 striker. 
Gouiri is facing HUGE competition. 
Also he can be a star without being Ballon D'or level.


----------



## Evilo

I keep on telling you guys.... Look at Desire Doue....
After his 89th minute steal and goal mid-week in Europa League, here he is scoring again tonight... and not just scoring.


----------



## Evilo

Over the last 6 years, Rennes' academy has produced :

Ousmane Dembele 1997, Barcelona, french international
Arnaud Laurienté, 1998, Sassuolo, sold for nice money this summer
Yan Valery 1999, Angers, after his EPL stint
Lorenz Assignon 2000, Rennes, up and coming
Sofiane Diop, 2000, Nice, after a nice stint at Monaco
Wilson Isidore, 2000, Lokomotiv, after a stint at Monaco
Alexis Trouiller, 2000, Panatinaikos, couldn't break through with Nice
Sach Boey, 2000, Galatasaray
Warmed Omari 2000, Rennes, best Rennes CB last year, but injured this year.
Lucas Da Cunha, 2000, Nice, nice depth player
Adrien Truffert 2001, Rennes, french international
Giorgino Rutter 2002, Hoffenheim, U21 french international, playing nicely in Buli
Brandon Soppy 2002, Atalanta, after a nice transfer last winter from Udinese
Eduardo Camavinga 2003, Real Madrid, french international
Lesley Ugochukwu 2004, Rennes, up and coming, showed last year he was quite the youngster
Mathys Tel 2005, Bayern Munich, huge money spent by Bayern to acquire him last summer
Desire Doue 2005, Rennes, future star all over him
Jenuel Belocian, 2005, Rennes, nice young Dman

and soon Matthis Abline 2003 (successful loan last year in L2, ready for L1), Noah Francoise 2003 (captain of his generation, talented midfielder who has a headcase of a father though).


----------



## Evilo

Elye Wahi (Montpellier, 2003) is the 2nd highest U20 scorer in L1 in the XXIst century (behind only Mbappe and tied with Benzema who he will soon surpass).
He's also the leading scorer for players born after january 1st 2003 in the big 5 leagues (in front of Musiala and Wirtz).
He's also been clocked as the 3rd fastest player in L1.

@gary69 , you wanted an L1 prospect comparable to Benzema? You got one.


----------



## gary69

Evilo said:


> Elye Wahi (Montpellier, 2003) is the 2nd highest U20 scorer in L1 in the XXIst century (behind only Mbappe and tied with Benzema who he will soon surpass).
> He's also the leading scorer for players born after january 1st 2003 in the big 5 leagues (in front of Musiala and Wirtz).
> He's also been clocked as the 3rd fastest player in L1.
> 
> @gary69 , you wanted an L1 prospect comparable to Benzema? You got one.




If true, controversies mentioned regarding Wahi sound bad, though. 

Desire Doue has indeed looked impressive in the matches I've seen.


----------



## Evilo

They're real and I'm not a fan. Don't see Benz potential in him either tbh. He still has some glaring holes in his game.
But his talent was always evident from the get go.

And yeah, he's had his fair shares of character/contracts/everything problems. We'll see if he matures off the pitch.


----------



## Savant

Game winning goal with LFC having ten men due to red card. Have yet to lose or draw. 

Doak called out as one of LFC’s best prospects recently. He’ll be on a Fast track. Scottish winger.


----------



## gary69

gary69 said:


> 18-year old Oakley Cannonnier with a hattrick today for Liverpool in the youth CL today against Ajax. Doesn't seem to have any outstanding physical qualities, but boy, the teenager can finish. Not that Ajax knew much about marking, but even still he has scored a lot at youth level, 41 total goals last season.
> 
> If he has similar good numbers this season, certainly should go on a loan next season. Doesn't really seem have the qualities to play as CF at men's level, but who knows. He used to play at number 10 role, so maybe he can find a suitable role somewhere on the pitch anyhow.




Cannonnier with 2 goals again today, he has scored in every youth CL match season so far this season. Too bad he had to leave the pitch injured immediately after his 2nd goal in the first half. Something with his right tigh, it seemed.


----------



## Evilo

To noone's surprise, Campos is trying to sign Doue.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> To noone's surprise, Campos is trying to sign Doue.



For who? Isn’t he trying to leave PSG


----------



## Incubajerks

gary69 said:


> *Cannonnier* with 2 goals again today, he has scored in every youth CL match season so far this season. Too bad he had to leave the pitch injured immediately after his 2nd goal in the first half. Something with his right tigh, it seemed.




No better name for a striker!


----------



## gary69

Incubajerks said:


> No better name for a striker!




Especially if he ever plays in Italy and wins the top scorer title.


----------



## Evilo

Savant said:


> For who? Isn’t he trying to leave PSG



Haha, as I said yesterday, the Mbappe rumor was most likely true, but there was zero half decent source on the Campos and Galtier thing. People are just desparate.



gary69 said:


> Especially if he ever plays in Italy and wins the top scorer title.



BTW, doué in french means gifted. Seriously.
Désiré Doué means "desired gifted".


----------



## Evilo

Evilo said:


> To noone's surprise, Campos is trying to sign Doue.



Annnnnd Rennes has signed him to an extension until 2025.


----------



## cgf

Paul Wanner has replaced Mathys Tel Bayern's all-time youngest player to appear in a CL match; becoming the 13th youngest CL debutant ever.


----------



## Evilo

And Tel hit the crossbar yesterday in the CL match.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> And Tel hit the crossbar yesterday in the CL match.




Nagelsmann's really doing a nice job with Bayern's youth. Musiala has taken his game to a new level and is currently the best teenager in europe. Tel, Wanner & Gravenberch make regular cameos. Stanisic is in the CB rotation. 

Just need Ibrahimovic to start getting cameos and all of their top kids will be getting burn at the senior level.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Nagelsmann's really doing a nice job with Bayern's youth. Musiala has taken his game to a new level and is currently the best teenager in europe. Tel, Wanner & Gravenberch make regular cameos. Stanisic is in the CB rotation.
> 
> Just need Ibrahimovic to start getting cameos and all of their top kids will be getting burn at the senior level.




I would agree with all of this, except Gravenberch. Sabitzer is getting time ahead of him. That’s not good. He’s better than Sabitzer. Not time to panic. He got there a few months ago, but I don’t think Gravenberch or Bayern fans are satisfied with how he’s being used by Nagelsmann.


----------



## Evilo

As I said the other day, Wahi has more goals than Musiala...


----------



## Nairolfi

cgf said:


> Nagelsmann's really doing a nice job with Bayern's youth. Musiala has taken his game to a new level and is currently the best teenager in europe. Tel, Wanner & Gravenberch make regular cameos. Stanisic is in the CB rotation.
> 
> Just need Ibrahimovic to start getting cameos and all of their top kids will be getting burn at the senior level.



Ibrahimovic is unhappy and probably will leave Bayern


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> As I said the other day, Wahi has more goals than Musiala...




1) Wahi is a striker & Musiala is a midfielder.
2) Assists are a thing; a thing where Musiala happens to lead by 8 to 1
3) That's not even true. Wahi has 5 goals in all competitions this season (1 goal every 168 minutes); Musiala has 7 goals in all competitions this season (1 goal every 115 minutes).

So I repeat; Musiala has hit a new level and there's not a teenager in europe who is as good as he has been this season. The kid is creating a goal or assist every 53.667 minutes this season.


----------



## cgf

Nairolfi said:


> Ibrahimovic is unhappy and probably will leave Bayern




Wouldn't be surprising, but they really like him on the bayern campus and I think they'll try really hard to find some senior minutes for him to sway his mind. 

He...like Mouki...should (of course) join 1.FCU but starting with a BuLi2 club might make the most sense if he did leave Bayern.


Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I would agree with all of this, except Gravenberch. Sabitzer is getting time ahead of him. That’s not good. He’s better than Sabitzer. Not time to panic. He got there a few months ago, but I don’t think Gravenberch or Bayern fans are satisfied with how he’s being used by Nagelsmann.




Sabitzer is playing well this season and Gravenberch is still settling in. The kid is more talented, but atm he's not as stable. Still, he's getting regular cameos off the bench to better integrate him moving forward.


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> 1) Wahi is a striker & Musiala is a midfielder.
> 2) Assists are a thing; a thing where Musiala happens to lead by 8 to 1
> 3) That's not even true. Wahi has 5 goals in all competitions this season (1 goal every 168 minutes); Musiala has 7 goals in all competitions this season (1 goal every 115 minutes).
> 
> So I repeat; Musiala has hit a new level and there's not a teenager in europe who is as good as he has been this season. The kid is creating a goal or assist every 53.667 minutes this season.



Yes it's true, Wahi has more career goals and they're the same year of birth.
Musiala scores only a small fraction of Bayer's goals while Wahi is the main offensive option for a small scoring team.

So yes (and I'd argue that scoring isn't the only way to shine and other teenagers have shined on much worse team than just dressing for Bayern).


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Yes it's true, Wahi has more career goals and they're the same year of birth.
> Musiala scores only a small fraction of Bayer's goals while Wahi is the main offensive option for a small scoring team.
> 
> So yes (and I'd argue that scoring isn't the only way to shine and other teenagers have shined on much worse team than just dressing for Bayern).




Glad you agree that this season Musiala is on a level of his own and so are trying to bring up things that have nothing to do with this season.

Goals wouldn't be the first thing I looked at to assess a midfielder, but I guess I'm just not as _wise_ as you


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Dortmund’s U19’s aren’t very good this season. The squad hasn’t played like expected.

Three players who could play for the team are part of the first team, but there’s too many good players who aren’t playing well.

The guy having a very good season is Nnamdi Collins. He’s been the captain of the team this season, and is having a very good rebound season after struggling last season. I think he may have jumped Coulibaly on the depth chart to be part of the first team on a full time basis when they eventually add one to full time first team duty.

Abdoulaye Kamara is the other 2004 that probably will play first team next season. Julian Rijkhoff of the 2005’s also should play first team next season. He’s the leading goal scorer for the U-19’s, but reports say he’s struggling a little this season to carry the mail. Last season he was a complimentary player on the double winning U-19 squad. 

Filippo Mane will probably reach the first team one day. He’s the other well reviewed 2005 on the team, but he’s a CB, like Collins. Unlikely they’d skip Collins for Mane. Collins is said to be more ready for the Bundesliga.


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> Glad you agree that this season Musiala is on a level of his own and so are trying to bring up things that have nothing to do with this season.
> 
> Goals wouldn't be the first thing I looked at to assess a midfielder, but I guess I'm just not as _wise_ as you



No I fully disagree because you said currently and then you moved the goalposts to this season.
There are plenty of teens who are shining and saying one is the best in the world is highly arguable.
I don't even consider Wahi as best and yet in 2022 (which is certainly in the "currently" definition) his production is more impressive than Musiala given each player's team and league.

I consider a guy like Antonio Silva as very impressive too. And his position implies much more responsibility than Musiala's.
Nuno Mendes turned 20 this year. He's among the best a his position.
Desire Doué has 2 less goals than Musiala while being two years younger, playing CM, and on teams that are totally different in terms of scoring opportunities.
Eduardo Camavinga is born the same year and was key in a CL run THIS year.
Pedri is still a teen and is much more influential than Musiala.
Gavi has been exceptional for his age as well.
Heck, imagine Bellingham at Bayern and tell me he wouldn't do just as well?
I'm surely forgetting some other big names. 

If I had to pick one player out of all of these RIGHT NOW it'd be Pedri and not Musiala.


----------



## Nairolfi

Evilo said:


> No I fully disagree because you said currently and then you moved the goalposts to this season.
> There are plenty of teens who are shining and saying one is the best in the world is highly arguable.
> I don't even consider Wahi as best and yet in 2022 (which is certainly in the "currently" definition) his production is more impressive than Musiala given each player's team and league.
> 
> I consider a guy like Antonio Silva as very impressive too. And his position implies much more responsibility than Musiala's.
> Nuno Mendes turned 20 this year. He's among the best a his position.
> Desire Doué has 2 less goals than Musiala while being two years younger, playing CM, and on teams that are totally different in terms of scoring opportunities.
> Eduardo Camavinga is born the same year and was key in a CL run THIS year.
> Pedri is still a teen and is much more influential than Musiala.
> Gavi has been exceptional for his age as well.
> Heck, imagine Bellingham at Bayern and tell me he wouldn't do just as well?
> I'm surely forgetting some other big names.
> 
> If I had to pick one player out of all of these RIGHT NOW it'd be Pedri and not Musiala.



Silva: Stop comparing some completely unproven players to Musiala
Mendes: We already had the discussion and nothing changed since then
Doue: Same position and has 3 goals and 0 assists in all competitions. Musiala 7 goals and 8 assists, just stop
Camavinga: First he is 2002 birth year and was a substitue player not a key player for Real lol
Pedri: Amazing player but not ahead of Musiala atm
Gavi: Most overrated young player 
Bellingham: Toss up between him and Musiala

I haven't been here for long in the football section of hfboards but damn since then you talked so much nonsense it is not even funny anymore


----------



## Evilo

Your whole post is gold. Bookmark worthy. 
Thank you for playing.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> No I fully disagree because you said currently and then you moved the goalposts to this season.
> There are plenty of teens who are shining and saying one is the best in the world is highly arguable.
> I don't even consider Wahi as best and yet in 2022 (which is certainly in the "currently" definition) his production is more impressive than Musiala given each player's team and league.
> 
> I consider a guy like Antonio Silva as very impressive too. And his position implies much more responsibility than Musiala's.
> Nuno Mendes turned 20 this year. He's among the best a his position.
> Desire Doué has 2 less goals than Musiala while being two years younger, playing CM, and on teams that are totally different in terms of scoring opportunities.
> Eduardo Camavinga is born the same year and was key in a CL run THIS year.
> Pedri is still a teen and is much more influential than Musiala.
> Gavi has been exceptional for his age as well.
> Heck, imagine Bellingham at Bayern and tell me he wouldn't do just as well?
> I'm surely forgetting some other big names.
> 
> If I had to pick one player out of all of these RIGHT NOW it'd be Pedri and not Musiala.




Others will give you shit, but I am proud of you for being ready to admit that Sheraldo Becker is better than both Nkunku and Mbappe. Not only does his 10 goals+assists in 9 games trump their output, he does so for a lower-scoring team!

Cause it's not like Musiala, as Bayern's best player this season, has any influence over how many goals they score...


Pedri is an understandable choice for people that haven't seen much of Musiala lately given that prior to this season starting spanish-Wirtz was on Jamal's level.


----------



## Evilo

Great of you to admit your sentence just plain wrong.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Great of you to admit your sentence just plain wrong.




No, you're completely misunderstanding what I wrote. My bad.

Let me try to clarify because what I said was that Musiala is currently the best teenager in europe. What that means is that of all players younger than 20 years of age, a german kid has been better at football than any of the others this season!

Hopefully that cleared it up


----------



## Evilo

No I didn't. I understood just as you understood mine. 

And what I mean is that other players can claim that title with ease and that you determining with a doubt (like no "arguable" or "possibly") makes your sentence plain wrong.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> No I didn't. I understood just as you understood mine.
> 
> *And what I mean is that other players can claim that title with ease* and that you determining with a doubt (like no "arguable" or "possibly") makes your sentence plain wrong.




Then name one who has been better than Musiala this season. I'll wait because you haven't done so yet. It may pain you to admit, but Musiala has simply been better & more influential this season than Bellingham, Pedri, Gavi, Mendes, and every other name you've thrown out 


That doesn't mean he'll be the best forever, that he's been the best forever, that others can't catch/surpass him, or whatever else you want to argue against that I never said.

Just that this season he has been in a tier of his own...even if you haven't noticed from the Bayern highlights you catch to check on Tel.


----------



## Evilo

Again, you said "currently", which doesn't define this season.
Please define currently then. Because if it's 2022...
Pedri? Mendes?
Camavinga between january and june was key in a CL run on the CL winning team (and the other guy who said he was a backup seriously needs to watch football if he thinks he has a point, since any Real fan would tell you immense he was).
If it's "last month", then Antonio Silva has been more important than Musiala over the last month.
If it's "last week", Desire Doue, 2005 born, scored 2 goals in 2 games (including a highlight reel) and a game winning goal at the 89th in Europe after pressuring a defenseman, getting the ball back and scoring.

So please what exactly does your "currently" use mean?


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Again, you said "currently", which doesn't define this season.
> Please define currently then. Because if it's 2022...
> Pedri? Mendes?
> Camavinga between january and june was key in a CL run on the CL winning team (and the other guy who said he was a backup seriously needs to watch football if he thinks he has a point, since any Real fan would tell you immense he was).
> If it's "last month", then Antonio Silva has been more important than Musiala over the last month.
> If it's "last week", Desire Doue, 2005 born, scored 2 goals (including a highlight reel) and a game winning goal at the 89th in Europe after pressuring a defenseman, getting the ball back and scoring.
> 
> So please what exactly does your "currently" use mean?




I mean since Musiala elevated his game over the summer.

...like I said in my very first post on this subject; which is why I keep writing "this season" in my posts...


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> Nagelsmann's really doing a nice job with Bayern's youth. Musiala has taken his game to a new level and is currently the best teenager in europe.



Apparently, you're writing things you forget about.
This was your post I disagreed with.

Musiala is not "currently" the best teenager in Europe and if he is, then it's VERY arguable.


----------



## cgf

You're right that unlike 95% of my posts on here I haven't been couching my comments on this subject with an "arguably" or "probably"...but that's because I have yet to see a compelling argument for anyone else *shrug*

I love spanish-Wirtz & his little friend and was one of the first non-Barca fans on here hyping either of them; Bellingham has taken his game to a new level this season himself; Wirtz was better than Musiala last season prior to his knee injury...and there are a ton of other great young players.

But since this season started, Musiala has elevated his game to a new level and I just don't know of any teenager in europe that is currently playing better than Jamal Musiala...or even as well...and to me, it is by a clear margin.

The same way Haaland having been clearly better than Lewa the past few seasons (when fit) didn't mean that Lewa wasn't himself a worldclass striker who was absolutely lethal, just that Erling was on an even higher level


----------



## Evilo

Well I'll just disagree with your assesment.
Right now If I had to build a team from scratch, I'd take Pedri or Silva over Musiala. Probably Camavinga too.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Apparently, you're writing things you forget about.
> This was your post I disagreed with.
> 
> Musiala is not "currently" the best teenager in Europe and if he is, then it's VERY arguable.




Is it not obvious from the whole post that I am talking about this season? Tel & Gravenberch weren't Bayern players last year so how could this comment be referring to anything before the summer?



cgf said:


> Nagelsmann's really doing a nice job with Bayern's youth. Musiala has taken his game to a new level and is currently the best teenager in europe. Tel, Wanner & Gravenberch make regular cameos. Stanisic is in the CB rotation.
> 
> Just need Ibrahimovic to start getting cameos and all of their top kids will be getting burn at the senior level.




Nevermind where I've posted about Musiala's improvement this season & specifically said that I was talking about this season:



cgf said:


> 1) Wahi is a striker & Musiala is a midfielder.
> 2) Assists are a thing; a thing where Musiala happens to lead by 8 to 1
> 3) That's not even true. Wahi has 5 goals in all competitions this season (1 goal every 168 minutes); Musiala has 7 goals in all competitions this season (1 goal every 115 minutes).
> 
> So I repeat; Musiala has hit a new level and there's not a teenager in europe who is as good as he has been *this season. * The kid is creating a goal or assist every 53.667 minutes this season.





cgf said:


> To me, Musiala was closer to Bellingham last season -- and was arguably better in the second half of the season -- than Jude is to Jamal *this season (so far)*; while Musiala has hit the higher heights.
> 
> *He might not sustain at this level, but atm I can't give the nod to anyone but Musiala. He's not just Bayern's best player this season, he's been the best player in the league.*
> 
> ...other than Becker...


----------



## Evilo

Yes I told you you moved the goalposts. I told you a few times to define currently.
Anyway, agree to disagree.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Yes I told you you moved the goalposts. I told you a few times to define currently.
> Anyway, agree to disagree.




 Is that why the instant I made it clear that when I said "currently" I was talking about the current season you ignored it? 

It's ok, you can be wrong. Not the first time.


----------



## Evilo

Would actually be a first, but no.
You kept on ignoring what I told you about the "currently". I made it clear from the get-go.

And I'm not wrong since I disagree with you. Most likely means I'm right actually


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Would actually be a first, but no.
> You kept on ignoring what I told you about the "currently". I made it clear from the get-go.
> 
> And I'm not wrong since I disagree with you. Most likely means I'm right actually




 this is art. I don't think you could capture yourself more perfectly.


----------



## Evilo

Indeed, fits perfectly.
You keep on writing definite sentences that are HIGHLY arguable, but you have no shame telling people they're wrong when they disagree by pointing obvious names like Camavinga, Silva or Pedri.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Indeed, fits perfectly.
> You keep on writing definite sentences that are HIGHLY arguable, but you have no shame telling people they're wrong when they disagree by pointing obvious names like Camavinga, Silva or Pedri.




It really does 


And I am. As I mentioned in my previous post, I almost never do this...I know that throwing around absolutes and calling people stupid when they disagree is your schtick...my schtick is always being 100% reasonable 

But sometimes things are obvious...and one of those obvious things is that Musiala has been even better than Moukoko, Pedri, Gavi, Camavinga, Silva, Bellingham, and every other teenager in europe; since taking his game to a new level this season.

It may not last and others may reach even higher levels in the future, but right now...this season...Musiala has been in a class of his own.


----------



## Evilo

Link me to my "absolutes" please. 
Or stop posting crappy things all the time. 
You throw absolutes every single time as biased as the come while accusing others of being biased. 
Your list of German evaluations is a long story of hilarious overratings but you continue here again...


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Link me to my "absolutes" please.
> Or stop posting crappy things all the time.
> You throw absolutes every single time as biased as the come while accusing others of being biased.
> Your list of German evaluations is a long story of hilarious overratings but you continue here again...




I will be disappointed if I ever come on here and discover that some spoil-sport has told you about self-awareness


----------



## Evilo

So ironic!
Take a look at your predictions in term of players breaking through and then the end reulsts.
Then try to be more humble about your definite sentences like the one before.
Of course I'm only trying to help. You have every right to continue to do your thing and act highly to others when they call you out for it.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> So ironic!
> Take a look at your predictions in term of players breaking through and then the end reulsts.
> Then try to be more humble about your definite sentences like the one before.
> Of course I'm only trying to help. You have every right to continue to do your thing and act highly to others when they call you out for it.



I include some version of "arguably" & "probably" in almost every post I make on here that isn't a one-line joke post and am a pathological peace-maker / consensus-builder.

...which is why I really appreciate getting to set aside my nice-guy-impulses when we're talking s***; especially with certain fans of EPL teams that suck at spending ;-)

So are you mixing me up with someone else?



And just because I'm too classy to ever remind people that the likes of Maouassa, Harit, Fekir, Rabiot, Martial, Lemar, Ndombele, Ben Arfa, Zouma, Umtiti, etc., all failed to live up to the massive hype you used to give them...

...the way you continually harp on about Dahoud, Draxler, Tah, Gotze, & Eggestein...doesn't mean that we've forgotten all of your embarrassing mistakes. 

Though admittedly, I have forgotten a lot of your misses, I remember more than enough to go name for name with you if you really want to.


----------



## Evilo

Massive hype on those guys?
Really?
Link please.
I'll help : was never high in Moussa, failure cgf 1
Never rated Harit as more than a good young prospect failure cgf 2
Rated Fekir very highly until he blew his knee. Have made it clear he was never the same since. Failure 3 for cgf who's on a roll!
Rated Rabiot very highly indeed I'll take the L there.
Was always a big critic of Martial and made fun of United for paying that much for him. Another L for you.
Lemar I was high on and still am. I believe he's still a quality player in a bad situation. He has a CL record Musiala will never beat BTW
Ndombele I was high on and only fools would deny his talent level. But I'll take the L if you want.
Ben Arfa I don't consider a wrong. He reached heights few have.
Zouma I thought was a very solid CB. And he has been for most of his career. I never rated him as a future top 3 CB so not sure what you mean.
Then finally Umtiti which is hilarious. I was not high on him at all and was called out for it because he became World Class and I didn't expect it. So if you're trying to say I overrated him not only did you miss the fact I underrated him but you also missed the fact he was world class before his injury.

Man that's quite the failure you had there.
You tried to list every french player who didn't live up to expectations ignoring I didn't rate some of them at all or that some of actually did become world class.

Disaster post.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Massive hype on those guys?
> Really?
> Link please.
> I'll help : was never high in Moussa, failure cgf 1
> Never rated Harit as more than a good young prospect failure cgf 2
> Rated Fekir very highly until he blew his knee. Have made it clear he was never the same since. Failure 3 for cgf who's on a roll!
> Rated Rabiot very highly indeed I'll take the L there.
> Was always a big critic of Martial and made fun of United for paying that much for him. Another L for you.
> Lemar I was high on and still am. I believe he's still a quality player in a bad situation. He has a CL record Musiala will never beat BTW
> Ndombele I was high on and only fools would deny his talent level. But I'll take the L if you want.
> Ben Arfa I don't consider a wrong. He reached heights few have.
> Zouma I thought was a very solid CB. And he has been for most of his career. I never rated him as a future top 3 CB so not sure what you mean.
> Then finally Umtiti which is hilarious. I was not high on him at all and was called out for it because he became World Class and I didn't expect it. So if you're trying to say I overrated him not only did you miss the fact I underrated him but you also missed the fact he was world class before his injury.
> 
> Man that's quite the failure you had there.
> You tried to list every french player who didn't live up to expectations ignoring I didn't rate some of them at all or that some of actually did become world class.
> 
> Disaster post.





If health issues are an excuse then you can't talk s*** about kids like Gotze, Yesil, or Eggestein ever again. And if attitude issues are a valid excuse, then you can't mention Dahoud, Tah, or Draxler either. So, using your own rules, when have I ever been wrong?



Why should it matter if you were actually high on the kid? When has that ever stopped you from talking s*** about kids that I was never high on 

...FWIW I did initially have Umtiti listed with a questionmark because I couldn't remember whether you were extra high or extra low on him, just that you had a strong opinion about him, but you defended Martial for way too long to pretend like you didn't ever hype him at all.

And you were definitely very high on Harit. I remember you talking about how he'd be better than Özil...right until the moment he left Ligue 1 for the BuLi & switched NTs; revealing his low-character. After that, you changed your tune about Harit right quick...


----------



## Evilo

No I never overhyped Martial. Go and check it out. At the time of his transfer I said he was a very quick player with potential but far from an 80 M player. The same things I said about Antony BTW.
Harit better than Ozil. LMAO.
Please link or admit you're simply lying like you've done in your last posts. Go ahead find me that quote.
As for the health I guess you're referring to Umtiti who was already WC when he got injured (can't believe you listed him as a disappointment lol) and Fekir and I said straight away wasn't the same afterwards. And he went on to have an awesome career even without his explosiveness. Among the best liga players last year.

So yeah... Disaster post part II.


----------



## Evilo

So far you've managed to tell me I was wrong on Rabiot and Ndombele out of your very long list. 
I've been wrong on many others BTW, so you need to come up with better names than making things up about Harit and others. Or classify Umtiti as a failure 

Meanwhile I can list about 50 names of guys that have become stars over the last 20 years that I hyped up on HFB. 
I have trouble finding many names from your corner.

You should enjoy the Union game instead of posting lies.


----------



## cgf

So was two hours enough time for you to think of someone I was actually wrong about? No? Cool


----------



## Evilo

Fortunately I don't plan on spending any time on this.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

As overrated as Gavi is, Pedri is not much better.

I call Pedri and Gavi the free minutes kids. Barcelona gives these kids unlimited chances to play poorly because they think they’ll be the next Xavi and Iniesta. The reality is that they have combined for 1801 minutes this season and 2G, 0 assists. They might end up Barcelona quality in 10 years, but aren’t in 2022. They have de Jong and Kessie on the bench for these two kids. This is part of why they’re not a good team. Can’t get no goal contributions from your midfield.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> As overrated as Gavi is, Pedri is not much better.
> 
> I call Pedri and Gavi the free minutes kids. Barcelona gives these kids unlimited chances to play poorly because they think they’ll be the next Xavi and Iniesta. The reality is that they have combined for 1801 minutes this season and 2G, 0 assists. They might end up Barcelona quality in 10 years, but aren’t in 2022. They have de Jong and Kessie on the bench for these two kids. This is part of why they’re not a good team. Can’t get no goal contributions from your midfield.




lol how many goals & assists does Bellingham have outside of the CL?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> lol how many goals & assists does Bellingham have outside of the CL?




Two, in like half the amount of minutes. And you can’t take away a key competition like that. Bellingham brings more than goal contributions. He has a real defensive component to his game. Pedri and Gavi don’t. They get owned weekly by Bastoni flexing on them on Instagram for lacking a physical component to their game. 

Bellingham has been up and down this season, anyway, so there’s little issue with some criticism his way, but he’s much better, regardless.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Both are good defensively and if you ever watched either you’d know that. Gavi in particular can duel with the best of them. Hell he probably gets sidetracked with the nastiness a bit too much. But let’s go by IG instead.


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Both are good defensively and if you ever watched either you’d know that. Gavi in particular can duel with the best of them. Hell he probably gets sidetracked with the nastiness a bit too much. But let’s go by IG instead.




I dunno about that. They're both Kimmich's size, it's impossible to be good defensively when you're that small...


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> I dunno about that. They're both Kimmich's size, it's impossible to be good defensively when you're that small...



Or play this is true


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Or play this is true



I'm just teasing PB because he thinks Kimmich isn't good defensively because of his size as well


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> I'm just teasing PB because he thinks Kimmich isn't good defensively because of his size as well



I know but he also stated Kimmich is the greatest player in the world. Best not to take it serious


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I know but he also stated Kimmich is the greatest player in the world. Best not to take it serious




It's irksome because he can be reasonable about a lot more than you guys give him credit for...but then comes his crusade against Spain's Wirtz-knockoffs, or his 'Sancho was more important than Haaland' schtick & all can do is throw my hands up


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> I'm just teasing PB because he thinks Kimmich isn't good defensively because of his size as well




I can’t even see the whole discussion, but I’m not saying Pedri and Gavi are bad defensively because of their size. I’m saying they are bad defensively, and also pointing to what Bastoni has been posting on Instagram that is proof that their games are all about possession/attacking.

Kimmich is a terrier. I have no reason to like the guy. I don’t, but he’s a great footballer. Different style player to Pedri and Gavi. He’s not only a tiki-taka player.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

While we’re on the topic of Wirtz vs. Pedri and Gavi.

Pedri: 11G, 7A in 6186 minutes for Barcelona.

Gavi: 2G, 6A in 3938 minutes for Barcelona. 

Total: 13G, 13A in 10,024 minutes for Barcelona

Wirtz: 19G, 22A in 5635 minutes for Leverkusen

If Pedri and Gavi are knockoff versions of Wirtz, they are dollar store versions of Wirtz. 

It’s okay to admit that players that play for Barcelona and Spain aren’t good. On the other hand, Ansu Fati is brilliant. You have to play well to be good. Fati does. Pedri and Gavi don’t.


----------



## Nairolfi

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> While we’re on the topic of Wirtz vs. Pedri and Gavi.
> 
> Pedri: 11G, 7A in 6186 minutes for Barcelona.
> 
> Gavi: 2G, 6A in 3938 minutes for Barcelona.
> 
> Total: 13G, 13A in 10,024 minutes for Barcelona
> 
> Wirtz: 19G, 22A in 5635 minutes for Leverkusen
> 
> If Pedri and Gavi are knockoff versions of Wirtz, they are dollar store versions of Wirtz.
> 
> It’s okay to admit that players that play for Barcelona and Spain aren’t good. On the other hand, Ansu Fati is brilliant. You have to play well to be good. Fati does. Pedri and Gavi don’t.



Seeing this makes me even more sad that he got injured. Leverkusen is so bad this season you can clearly notice how big of an impact Wirtz already had on their play. Especially Schick and Diaby aren't able to do anything without him. Hopefully the injury won't prevent him from beeing one of the best in the game in future


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I can’t even see the whole discussion, but I’m not saying Pedri and Gavi are bad defensively because of their size. I’m saying they are bad defensively, and also pointing to what Bastoni has been posting on Instagram that is proof that their games are all about possession/attacking.
> 
> Kimmich is a terrier. I have no reason to like the guy. I don’t, but he’s a great footballer. Different style player to Pedri and Gavi. He’s not only a tiki-taka player.




I can't comment on what you're seeing on IG, but both Gavi and Pedri are plenty capable defenders...Gavi in particular has that 'little son of a b****' in him, like Joshua. It was a not-insignificant part of why I liked him so much when first seeing him play...and why I'm still higher on Gavi than I am Fati.


As for comparing their #s to Wirtz's, this is the reverse of the problem we had when Evilo tried to compare Wahi's goal totals to Musiala's. Though both have seen minutes in the attacking band, Gavi and Pedri have both spent a lot more time playing deeper than Wirtz has, so it would be crazy if they did produce at the same rate. 

Just for comparison; neither Xaxi nor Iniesta hit 10 goals+assists in a season until they were 22, and I don't think anyone would argue that Wirtz is guaranteed to be better in his prime than Xaviesta were in theirs.

Now Musiala, unlike Wirtz, has spent some time playing as a pseudo-8, so there's a more apples-to-apples comparison between them...but that's part of why I've argued that Musiala is in a tier of his own this season (so far & from what I've seen).



Nairolfi said:


> Seeing this makes me even more sad that he got injured. Leverkusen is so bad this season you can clearly notice how big of an impact Wirtz already had on their play. Especially Schick and Diaby aren't able to do anything without him. Hopefully the injury won't prevent him from beeing one of the best in the game in future




Yeah. It certainly hurts not having him in Qatar...having Sane-Wirtz-Musiala behind Havertz, Gnabry, or Mouki would've been too much fun to watch...but at this point, I just hope he can make a full recovery and the injury doesn't have a lasting effect on his fearlessness.

F*** the vulturekusen...I would have zero complaints about seeing them relegated...but if Wirtz is never the same, that would be a big blow to the NT; even with our depth in the attacking band.


----------



## cgf

Just noticed that Bayern II's Eyup Aydin seems to have opted for Turkey's U21s. Not entirely unexpected as he wasn't a Wanner-tier prospect that could be certain of cracking our senior team...but he's an upper tier-2 kid that's a natural 6. So it does hurt a bit, as that is one of our weakest areas, and if he develops really well he could still make the jump to tier-1.

Yusuf Kabadayi is another very talented turco-german on Bayern II who I also think will probably end up switching to Turkey when he's getting closer to challenging for a senior team spot. But he hasn't switched back yet...having played for Turkey's U15 & U16 teams (4 goals in 8 games) before joining our U18s & U19s (3 goals in 8 games).

Lucas Copado is having a good first year playing against men. He's not scoring as well as against kids...only 2 goals in 15 regional liga matches and 2 goals in 3 Uefa YL matches...but he's tied for the title of Bayern II's leading assist giver from his false-9 position.

Lovro Zvonarek is probably the most hyped talent on that team right now and he's slowly settling in. Hasn't started producing too much with just 1 goal & 1 assist in 684 minutes spread across 11 matches, but the kid can keep the ball on a string, has quick feet, good size, and a solid frame.


----------



## Savant

@Evilo what are you thoughts on Dango Outtara at Lorient


----------



## Evilo

He's very interesting and shining with this Lorient team who's playing out of this world right now.
Remains to be seen how he fares when his team struggles more.
That said, he's producing at a wow clip and he's only 20.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> He's very interesting and shining with this Lorient team who's playing out of this world right now.
> Remains to be seen how he fares when his team struggles more.
> That said, he's producing at a wow clip and he's only 20.



His numbers kind of popped off the screen for me when I saw. Can’t say I’ve seen him play before though. One to keep an eye on though.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Gavi won the Kepa trophy after Pedri won it last year.

This is not a serious trophy anymore.


----------



## les Habs

Nairolfi said:


> Silva: Stop comparing some completely unproven players to Musiala
> Mendes: We already had the discussion and nothing changed since then
> Doue: Same position and has 3 goals and 0 assists in all competitions. Musiala 7 goals and 8 assists, just stop
> Camavinga: First he is 2002 birth year and was a substitue player not a key player for Real lol
> Pedri: Amazing player but not ahead of Musiala atm
> Gavi: Most overrated young player
> Bellingham: Toss up between him and Musiala
> 
> I haven't been here for long in the football section of hfboards but damn since then you talked so much nonsense it is not even funny anymore




LOL


----------



## les Habs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> As overrated as Gavi is, Pedri is not much better.
> 
> I call Pedri and Gavi the free minutes kids. Barcelona gives these kids unlimited chances to play poorly because they think they’ll be the next Xavi and Iniesta. The reality is that they have combined for 1801 minutes this season and 2G, 0 assists. They might end up Barcelona quality in 10 years, but aren’t in 2022. They have de Jong and Kessie on the bench for these two kids. This is part of why they’re not a good team. Can’t get no goal contributions from your midfield.






Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Two, in like half the amount of minutes. And you can’t take away a key competition like that. Bellingham brings more than goal contributions. He has a real defensive component to his game. Pedri and Gavi don’t. They get owned weekly by Bastoni flexing on them on Instagram for lacking a physical component to their game.
> 
> Bellingham has been up and down this season, anyway, so there’s little issue with some criticism his way, but he’s much better, regardless.






Pavel Buchnevich said:


> While we’re on the topic of Wirtz vs. Pedri and Gavi.
> 
> Pedri: 11G, 7A in 6186 minutes for Barcelona.
> 
> Gavi: 2G, 6A in 3938 minutes for Barcelona.
> 
> Total: 13G, 13A in 10,024 minutes for Barcelona
> 
> Wirtz: 19G, 22A in 5635 minutes for Leverkusen
> 
> If Pedri and Gavi are knockoff versions of Wirtz, they are dollar store versions of Wirtz.
> 
> It’s okay to admit that players that play for Barcelona and Spain aren’t good. On the other hand, Ansu Fati is brilliant. You have to play well to be good. Fati does. Pedri and Gavi don’t.






Nairolfi said:


> Seeing this makes me even more sad that he got injured. Leverkusen is so bad this season you can clearly notice how big of an impact Wirtz already had on their play. Especially Schick and Diaby aren't able to do anything without him. Hopefully the injury won't prevent him from beeing one of the best in the game in future




LOL, quoted for the record before any edits.


----------



## cgf

les Habs said:


> LOL, quoted for the record before any edits.




What's your issue with:



Nairolfi said:


> Seeing this makes me even more sad that he got injured. Leverkusen is so bad this season you can clearly notice how big of an impact Wirtz already had on their play. Especially Schick and Diaby aren't able to do anything without him. Hopefully the injury won't prevent him from beeing one of the best in the game in future




? That poster just seems to be lamenting Wirtz's injury...buddy doesn't even mention either of Barca's Wirtz-knockoffs


----------



## les Habs

cgf said:


> What's your issue with:
> 
> 
> 
> ? That poster just seems to be lamenting Wirtz's injury...buddy doesn't even mention either of Barca's Wirtz-knockoffs




Pretty simple. Look at the post he quoted. You’d do better worrying about your lot panning out for a change.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

uff loool this is spicy


----------



## cgf

les Habs said:


> Pretty simple. Look at the post he quoted. You’d do better worrying about your lot panning out for a change.




 how dare a post reminding everyone of how good Wirtz has been, remind someone of how good Wirtz was prior to his injury!


And I have nothing to worry about. Just look at the BuLi table, everything is just with the world


----------



## les Habs

cgf said:


> how dare a post reminding everyone of how good Wirtz has been, remind someone of how good Wirtz was prior to his injury!
> 
> 
> And I have nothing to worry about. Just look at the BuLi table, everything is just with the world




You obviously can’t follow. Anyway Prince Charming, the slipper fits but I’m not interested. Just remember you’re talking to someone who drafted Wirtz ahead of Gavi (and the other ten or so blokes making picks) 18 months ago in a keeper league.


----------



## cgf

les Habs said:


> You obviously can’t follow. Anyway Prince Charming, the slipper fits but I’m not interested. Just remember you’re talking to someone who drafted Wirtz ahead of Gavi (and the other ten or so blokes making picks) 18 months ago in a keeper league.




Try explaining it then. Cause it looks an awful lot like you just assumed that buddy was agreeing with PB because they responded to one of PB's posts...


----------



## les Habs

cgf said:


> Try explaining it then. Cause it looks an awful lot like you just assumed that buddy was agreeing with PB because they responded to one of PB's posts...




I already did with what I quoted. All on this page. Easier to figure out than a young Dahoud which wasn’t too difficult after all.


----------



## cgf

les Habs said:


> I already did with what I quoted. All on this page. Easier to figure out than a young Dahoud which wasn’t too difficult after all.




Oh you missed it. Evilo said it doesn't count as being wrong if the kid turns out to have a crap attitude. So I'm good on Mo 

And you quoted a single post from that poster, one that didn't mention either of your kids and just lamented Wirtz' injury...I get that being bitchy has been your schtick since Barca turned to s*** but god damn


----------



## cgf

Anyways, in just 296 minutes this season, Lazar Samardzic has been 6th place Udinese's 4th leading scorer. Working his way up to starting in their last match against Lazio.

He's one of those AM I expect to move back to the 8 as he matures, but he's got one heck of a left foot on him...the U21 team has been grooming him to replace Burkardt, whenever he graduates.


----------



## les Habs

cgf said:


> Oh you missed it. Evilo said it doesn't count as being wrong if the kid turns out to have a crap attitude. So I'm good on Mo
> 
> And you quoted a single post from that poster, one that didn't mention either of your kids and just lamented Wirtz' injury...I get that being bitchy has been your schtick since Barca turned to s*** but god damn




No, I didn’t ”miss” anything, just not interested is all. 

I quoted him twice, very obviously. Only bitchy one here is yourself because per usual you’ve overreacted about Bundesliga players. Like I said though, your game doesn’t interest me.


----------



## Evilo

les Habs said:


> LOL



I know!
This guy's bookmark worthy. Love how he comes in and tell me I'm stupid.



cgf said:


> Oh you missed it. Evilo said it doesn't count as being wrong if the kid turns out to have a crap attitude. So I'm good on Mo



Where? I said I took an L for Ndombele?


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

How is Dahoud used as an example of a player that failed?

Sure, he could’ve been better. So could’ve 99% of players out there. Most don’t hit the absolute best outcome.

He’ll likely play 10+ years of UCL football as a contributor. Far from a bad outcome. And he’s improved the last few years.


----------



## Evilo

When evaluating young players let's keep in mind that the current Ballon d'or player Karim Benzema was 4th in the offensive depth chart as a 17 year old behind Ben Arfa, Nasri and Menez.


----------



## cgf

les Habs said:


> No, I didn’t ”miss” anything, just not interested is all.
> 
> I quoted him twice, very obviously. Only bitchy one here is yourself because per usual you’ve overreacted about Bundesliga players. Like I said though, your game doesn’t interest me.




 kk, bringing up the same name for the better part of a decade and I'm the one whose schtick needs an update...

Hopefully you're not such a miserable twat about everything right now.


----------



## Nairolfi

Evilo said:


> I know!
> This guy's bookmark worthy. Love how he comes in and tell me I'm stupid.



Where did I call you stupid lol


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> When evaluating young players let's keep in mind that the current Ballon d'or player Karim Benzema was 4th in the offensive depth chart as a 17 year old behind Ben Arfa, Nasri and Menez.




Agreed. "Precociousness =/= Potential" should be pinned to the top of every prospect thread on this forum.

That's why I try to differentiate between kids looking elite against their peers and kids looking like they can be elite at the top level. As well as between kids who are looking best right now, and kids who look like they'll be best in their primes.


----------



## Nairolfi

les Habs said:


> LOL



Please specify in which points you are disagreeing with me. Maybe then we can discuss lol


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> How is Dahoud used as an example of a player that failed?
> 
> Sure, he could’ve been better. So could’ve 99% of players out there. Most don’t hit the absolute best outcome.
> 
> He’ll likely play 10+ years of UCL football as a contributor. Far from a bad outcome. And he’s improved the last few years.




Because Mo could've been better than Ilkay if he hadn't gotten so full of himself as soon as he secured that transfer to BVB.

I still remember that first friendly he played with BMG's senior team...the kid was everything I love about Kone as an 8, only more skilled...and to this day I will argue that an 18yo Mo was better than an 18yo Bellingham.

He's not as bad of a disappointment as Draxler or Tah have been, or the kind of bust that Meyer & Avdijaj turned out to be, but (just like Brandt) he has unquestionably underachieved and peaked lower than he could have.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> I know!
> This guy's bookmark worthy. Love how he comes in and tell me I'm stupid.
> 
> 
> Where? I said I took an L for Ndombele?




I was just teasing because, before that conversation spiraled out of control, I never meant to say anything other than that the BuLi's best kids have been phenomenal this season. Musiala in particular, being absolutely amazing since the summer.

...and I couldn't help but laugh at how hot les habs came in; we spread my dad's ashes today, so I'm in a weird mood & have no energy to waste on fighting with anyone.


PS - give that poster a chance & don't put words in their mouth, buddy's pm'd me and seems reasonable...even if they are swabian :-p


----------



## les Habs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> How is Dahoud used as an example of a player that failed?
> 
> Sure, he could’ve been better. So could’ve 99% of players out there. Most don’t hit the absolute best outcome.
> 
> He’ll likely play 10+ years of UCL football as a contributor. Far from a bad outcome. And he’s improved the last few years.




Who said he failed? Point wasn’t that he failed, but that he isn’t near the hype that no one in particular here (I’d name or @ him, but his hard-on for me means he’ll probably start hurling insults again and posting more deranged commentary and false narratives based on Lord knows what) gave him.



Nairolfi said:


> Please specify in which points you are disagreeing with me. Maybe then we can discuss lol




It’d probably be easier to tell you what I agree with, but here you go:

—You said Silva was unproven.
—You use goals and assists as pretty much your only measure of a player and lack a lot of context to boot.
—You said Camavinga wasn’t a key player when he had some key moments in Madrid’s CL run last year where they won it.
—You said Pedri isn’t ahead of Musiala at the moment, which depending on your time frame is wrong.
—You said Gavi is the most overrated young player. IMO that’s experiential, but I can’t imagine a scenario you’ve experienced where that is the case. Ridiculous comment really and this is coming from someone who loves the kid but who doesn’t think he should have won that award (though to be fair I’m not sure who should have).
—Bellingham take. 

So I disagree with just about everything.


----------



## Nairolfi

les Habs said:


> It’d probably be easier to tell you what I agree with, but here you go:
> 
> —You said Silva was unproven.
> —You use goals and assists as pretty much your only measure of a player and lack a lot of context to boot.
> —You said Camavinga wasn’t a key player when he had some key moments in Madrid’s CL run last year where they won it.
> —You said Pedri isn’t ahead of Musiala at the moment, which depending on your time frame is wrong.
> —You said Gavi is the most overrated young player. IMO that’s experiential, but I can’t imagine a scenario you’ve experienced where that is the case. Ridiculous comment really and this is coming from someone who loves the kid but who doesn’t think he should have won that award (though to be fair I’m not sure who should have).
> —Bellingham take.
> 
> So I disagree with just about everything.



- In comparison to Musiala he definitely is unproven. There is absolut no way at the moment that anyone would talke Silva over Musiala
-Evilo was the guy measuring players by their goals even when they played completly different positions. I took his own medicine
-I didn't say Camavinga had no key moments but he still was a substitute player wasn't he? He still is btw
-Pedri was clearly the best teenager the last seasons. This season there are some who took their play to next level. That is why I think Musiala/Bellingham are both better at the moment
-That is just my opinion on Gavi. I could be wrong but we will see.
-So what's wrong about this take?


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> I was just teasing because, before that conversation spiraled out of control, I never meant to say anything other than that the BuLi's best kids have been phenomenal this season. Musiala in particular, being absolutely amazing since the summer.
> 
> ...and I couldn't help but laugh at how hot les habs came in; we spread my dad's ashes today, so I'm in a weird mood & have no energy to waste on fighting with anyone.
> 
> 
> PS - give that poster a chance & don't put words in their mouth, buddy's pm'd me and seems reasonable...even if they are swabian :-p



Sorry about that man. My thoughts to you.


----------



## Evilo

How many 19 year old CB start in the CL AND shine? 
How many in history? 
Now how many AMs start in the CL and play only decently? 

To think that nobody would take Silva is just being blind to position. CBs can't make mistakes. AMs can.


----------



## luiginb

My 2 cents, top teenagers in the world right now, in order: Bellingham, Wirtz, Musiala, Camavinga, Pedri, Fati, Elliott, Livramento, Musah, Gavi, Reyna, Pino.


----------



## Evilo

3 Barca players 1 French.
Recent history suggests you're wrong.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

luiginb said:


> My 2 cents, top teenagers in the world right now, in order: Bellingham, Wirtz, Musiala, Camavinga, Pedri, Fati, Elliott, Livramento, Musah, Gavi, Reyna, Pino.



Pedri bossed Euros thats more than what any of the rest can say. Are we basing it on week to week? Because that would be incredibly dumb. Pedri's going into his 3rd season a bonfide superstar and one of the best midfielders in the game already. THere isnt a midfield he doesnt walk into and start. He already has that pedigree its hilarious he even comes up in a thread like this... he isnt a prospect.


----------



## Evilo

Also 1 French prospect but 0 Brazilian. 
The two countries that produce the most world class players. 
Not gonna happen.


----------



## luiginb

Evilo said:


> Also 1 French prospect but 0 Brazilian.
> The two countries that produce the most world class players.
> Not gonna happen.



Basing it on last 12 months and players I've seen. I don't watch too much Ligue 1 and absolutely no Brazilian Serie A, so that's why it might be lacking in u20 players from there.

And I love Pedri, but I love the other 4 more. What players like Bellingham and Camavinga lack in playmaking and offensive game they make up by their defensive and physical game. And Wirtz and Musiala are just stronger offensive players than Pedri for me right now. They do play in a relatively weaker league, so that might also help them shine easier, time will tell if it's just the "Sancho" effect.


----------



## cgf

Keanu Kraft has tested positive for weed after a match last month.


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Pedri bossed Euros thats more than what any of the rest can say. Are we basing it on week to week? Because that would be incredibly dumb. Pedri's going into his 3rd season a bonfide superstar and one of the best midfielders in the game already. THere isnt a midfield he doesnt walk into and start. He already has that pedigree its hilarious he even comes up in a thread like this... he isnt a prospect.




It's not like Musiala just got hot last week; have you already forgotten the match a month ago, when we got to see all three of Musiala, Pedri, & Gavi share the pitch?

Musiala was already one of the top youngstars in football before he started really coming on in the back half of last season...and he took another step over the summer; having surpassed his output from the 40 matches he played last year, after just 14 this season.

Who knows what the future will bring, but it's been 2.5 months now that he's been playing well enough to be the best player on a CL- or WM-winner, and it doesn't look like he's slowing down any time soon 

Edit:
Again I love Pedri & Gavi. They were a big part of why I suggested that La Liga, rather than Ligue 1, was the league I suspected might have more of the elite young talents than the BuLi atm...but Musiala has been outshining both Barca midfielders this season (at least to this point).

And unlike Haaland, his #s haven't spiked just because he went to a joke league


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

The Sancho effect is not the Bundesliga, it’s how Man United can ruin anyone.

Bundesliga isn’t as strong as the Premier League, but it’s similar to the other top 3 leagues. The difference between Bundesliga and La Liga/Serie A recently is minor. The Bundesliga is the worst of the four right now because of poor performances of late from historic clubs, but it’s not a significant difference. The gap between the best (Premier League) and fourth best (Bundesliga) is smaller than the difference between fourth best (Bundesliga) and fifth best (Ligue One).


----------



## Evilo

And yet those guys from Ligue 1 go to EPL and play much better than the guys from the Buli whose gap is seriously too big.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> And yet those guys from Ligue 1 go to EPL and play much better than the guys from the Buli whose gap is seriously too big.




Too true. I mean, just look at the EPL's goal-scoring & assist-giving races. The runaway leaders in both owe everything to Ligue 1


----------



## Evilo

Man, that's about the first player from the Buli (who was a star before Buli BTW) in 10 years to come and shine right away.

Meanwhile the best CB this year and best DM both come from L1. Among others.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Man, that's about the first player from the Buli (who was a star before Buli BTW) in 10 years to come and shine right away.
> 
> Meanwhile the best CB this year and best DM both come from L1. Among others.



Right about Saliba but Xhaka actually came from BuLi


----------



## Evilo

Look further north.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Look further north.



I mean, Walti is phenomenal but I wouldn't consider her better than Xhaka and even if you do, she also came from the BuLi.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Man, that's about the first player from the Buli (who was a star before Buli BTW) in 10 years to come and shine right away.
> 
> Meanwhile the best CB this year and best DM both come from L1. Among others.




...might want to reword that because in between Erling & KdB:

- Kai won the CL his first season in england. Chelsea have wasted him since then, but he shined early on before sputtering.
- Pulisic produced more in his first EPL season than he ever did in germany...at the senior or youth team level.
- Son never scored in the BuLi the way he does in England.
- Firmino went from 17pts in 2918 BuLi minutes to 18pts in 1983 EPL minutes after LFC bought him.
- Auba went from 16 pts in 16 BuLi matches to 14 pts in 13 EPL matches when he left BVB.
- Arnautovic has hit double-digit goals in the EPL 3 times; his BuLi high was 6.
- Xhaka's best season in the Bundesliga he had 4 pts, he had 4pts his first season with Arsenal and has surpassed that mark 3 times since then...including 5 pts after 10 matches this year.
- Ilkay joined City the year after KdB and has been a staple for them since.
- Pascal Groß has become a staple for Brighton since joining them from Ingolstadt.
- Vitaly Janelt was considered a bust in germany but is now one of 9th placed Brentford's key players.
- Joel Matip -- when not broken -- has been better against EPL attackers than BuLi ones in his career.
And Akanji has been crushing it for City this season after having been much more mediocre his last two seasons in Dortmund...but he was signed after Erling, so I won't count him. 


Now if you wanted to rephrase that you could strike Pulisic and maybe Kai from the list, but that still leaves plenty of successful BuLi-to-EPL transfers


----------



## Evilo

Havertz was never convincing.
Pulisic had one good season and is clearly not a star
Son developped in the EPL fine.
Firmino was a long time ago. But OK. He had to meet Klopp to turn into a star.
Auba same.
Arnautovic? Ouch.
And on and on...

I could go and check on the EPL team rosters but really... you know you've got it all lost, there's really no comparison.
And you can add the players we sent to Liga as well. Tchouameni, Camavinga, etc...

Fact is french players export easier than any other nation in big leagues. Players don't even need to shine in France to score a bunch in Buli (see Modeste and Auba for instance).
You certainly can make the argument abotu coaches, I'd have no problem with it. But players? Ridiculous.

So reading about the "gap" between the 4th and 5th league is yet another utterly stupid and ridiculous post by the notorious worst poster on the soccer board.
Case closed.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Havertz was never convincing.
> Pulisic had one good season and is clearly not a star
> Son developped in the EPL fine.
> Firmino was a long time ago. But OK.
> Auba same.
> Arnautovic? Ouch.
> And on and aon...
> 
> I could go and check on the EPL team rosters but really... you know you've got it all lost, there's really no comparison.
> And you can add the players we sent to Liga as well. Tchouameni, Camavinga, etc...
> 
> Fact is french players export easier than any other nation in big leagues. Players don't even need to shine in France to score a bunch in Buli (see Modeste and Auba for instance).
> 
> So reading about the "gap" between the 4th and 5th league is yet another utterly stupid and ridiculous post by the notorious worst poster on the soccer board.
> Case closed.




Feel free to check EPL teams rosters. It would be interesting to see if there were even half as many failed transfers as there were successful ones.

...or if all of those BuLi-bust jokes are just because you guys can't comprehend that Werner & Sancho aren't the only players that EPL clubs have bought from Germany.


----------



## Evilo

I don't think there's any argument for you there. Even bad L1 players like Ayew or Cornet are starting in the EPL.
A guy like Koscielny went from Lorient to Arsenal captain.
A guy went from Caen to virtual EPL MVP in one summer (Kante).
A guy went from L2 to EPL MVP (Mahrez).
etc, etc, etc...


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> I don't think there's any argument for you there. Even bad L1 players like Ayew or Cornet are starting in the EPL.




Then why do you keep trying to argue with me about this?  

If you want to argue with PB then quote him. If you want to take vague potshots at the BuLi then I'll continue correcting you when I have time to kill *shrug*


----------



## Evilo

I posted right after him. And I don't need vagues shots at Buli.
He's a Buli fan saying L1 (that he NEVER watches) is further from the 4th league than the 2nd is from the 1st.

Yet, our guys walk into the so called 1st league with ease, even our bad ones.


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## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> A guy like Koscielny went from Lorient to Arsenal captain.



In his 7th season at Arsenal. Xhaka went from Gladbach to Arsenal captain, too.


----------



## luiginb

Let's just say that if I'm a scout right now I'm paying a lot more attention to kids playing in France than I am to ones playing in Germany, but that doesn't change the fact I see the three best U20 players right now plying their trade in the Bundesliga. And Bellingham is an English product, arguably Musiala too.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> ...might want to reword that because in between Erling & KdB:
> 
> - Kai won the CL his first season in england. Chelsea have wasted him since then, but he shined early on before sputtering.
> - Pulisic produced more in his first EPL season than he ever did in germany...at the senior or youth team level.
> - Son never scored in the BuLi the way he does in England.
> - Firmino went from 17pts in 2918 BuLi minutes to 18pts in 1983 EPL minutes after LFC bought him.
> - Auba went from 16 pts in 16 BuLi matches to 14 pts in 13 EPL matches when he left BVB.
> - Arnautovic has hit double-digit goals in the EPL 3 times; his BuLi high was 6.
> - Xhaka's best season in the Bundesliga he had 4 pts, he had 4pts his first season with Arsenal and has surpassed that mark 3 times since then...including 5 pts after 10 matches this year.
> - Ilkay joined City the year after KdB and has been a staple for them since.
> - Pascal Groß has become a staple for Brighton since joining them from Ingolstadt.
> - Vitaly Janelt was considered a bust in germany but is now one of 9th placed Brentford's key players.
> - Joel Matip -- when not broken -- has been better against EPL attackers than BuLi ones in his career.
> And Akanji has been crushing it for City this season after having been much more mediocre his last two seasons in Dortmund...but he was signed after Erling, so I won't count him.
> 
> 
> Now if you wanted to rephrase that you could strike Pulisic and maybe Kai from the list, but that still leaves plenty of successful BuLi-to-EPL transfers




Akanji was pretty good last season. He gets a bad reputation. He was the least of the problems among our defenders last season. He was sold because of his salary demands. We couldn’t afford Sule and Akanji.

He was also good during the Ruckrunde of the prior season. He had a bad spell in the middle of his stint at the club for a year or year and a half after he injured his hip, but he was an unmitigated success at Dortmund during a time no other defenders were.


----------



## bluesfan94

luiginb said:


> Let's just say that if I'm a scout right now I'm paying a lot more attention to kids playing in France than I am to ones playing in Germany, but that doesn't change the fact I see the three best U20 players right now plying their trade in the Bundesliga. And Bellingham is an English product, arguably Musiala too.



MOD

I don't find it really arguable to say that Musiala is an English product; he pretty clearly is. He spent most of his life there before coming to Germany for some finishing. Same with Sancho and Bellingham. In fact, I think that is what the Bundesliga has become very successful at doing - taking 16-18 year olds from across the continent and helping them take that next step from potential to stardom. You can see that with the three I mentioned but also with players like Tel, Haaland, Nkunku, Davies, Gvardiol, Gravenberch, etc.

What I feel like Germany has slowed on some is churning out academy players; Wirtz is the best u-23 player that comes to mind that came from a German academy through to a senior BuLi side (noting that there is some young talent percolating through) and really the other ones out there haven't necessarily hit expectations (Havertz comes to mind). Those things are cyclical, though, and I think the u17 German class (Moukoko, Wanner, Rothe, etc.) is looking better.


----------



## cgf

luiginb said:


> Let's just say that if I'm a scout right now I'm paying a lot more attention to kids playing in France than I am to ones playing in Germany, but that doesn't change the fact I see the three best U20 players right now plying their trade in the Bundesliga. And Bellingham is an English product, arguably Musiala too.



I never meant to suggest anything other than what you've said here


----------



## les Habs

Nairolfi said:


> - In comparison to Musiala he definitely is unproven. There is absolut no way at the moment that anyone would talke Silva over Musiala
> -Evilo was the guy measuring players by their goals even when they played completly different positions. I took his own medicine
> -I didn't say Camavinga had no key moments but he still was a substitute player wasn't he? He still is btw
> -Pedri was clearly the best teenager the last seasons. This season there are some who took their play to next level. That is why I think Musiala/Bellingham are both better at the moment
> -That is just my opinion on Gavi. I could be wrong but we will see.
> -So what's wrong about this take?




—He’s less proven compared to Musiala, not unproven. There’s a difference. He’s proven based on what he’s done so far, including winning the Uefa Youth League last year and corresponding World club championship and despite those accomplishments being a team effort considering that side he’s the player who is now most integrated into the first team and putting in big performances including in the CL. I’d have gone after him in the fantasy keeper league I’m in but the guy who bid on him first has a player I want.
—If that’s the case, fair enough, but @Evilo knows more than most that there’s more to a player than goals and assists not to mention goals and assists commentary and reactions regarding some of these guys. And again, you’re post I quoted lacked context regarding the two players.
—You said Camavinga was not a key player for Madrid. He clearly was a key player for Madrid in their CL run.
—Pedri is ahead of Musiala and notably more proven.
—That’s great, but I’d love to see all of the overrating of him.
—That you think he’s better than Pedri.


----------



## cgf

Gavi's not over-rated by most people, but certain Barca homers I know have tried to argue that he & Pedri have been on Musiala's level this season, even after the way Jamal toyed with the two of them last month. So he's certainly over-rated by some folks ;-)


----------



## John Pedro

There's a striker on Sao Paulo u15 team named Thierry Henry lol kid is 14y old and 1,95cm long


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

The free minutes kids could never.


----------



## cgf

Also Musiala scored again, before having a goal stopped on the goal-line after having beaten the keeper.

While Mouki nabbed a goal & assist


----------



## John Pedro

Endrick scored his first 2 pro goals


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

John Pedro said:


> Endrick scored his first 2 pro goals





Who would you compare him to?

Does Mbappe/El Fenomeno hybrid sound right?


----------



## cgf

Caught ~20min of the Barca-Bayern YL game this morning. Really like Wanner, Ibrahimovic, Zvonarek, and Buchmann.

Pity I had to turn it off; Aseko came on for the last 30min and I haven't seen much of him yet.


----------



## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Who would you compare him to?
> 
> Does Mbappe/El Fenomeno hybrid sound right?




I see more a light version of Romário. Tiny but strong as a bull, great and powerful shot, amazing off ball, natural born scorer, world class technique

Probably a bit faster but less skilled than Romario


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

John Pedro said:


> I see more a light version of Romário. Tiny but strong as a bull, great and powerful shot, amazing off ball, natural born scorer, world class technique
> 
> Probably a bit faster but less skilled than Romario




Prime Romario was a little before my time, but my dad has told me a lot of stories over the years about how good he was.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Prime Romario was a little before my time, but my dad has told me a lot of stories over the years about how good he was.




Picture a rich-man's Sergio Agüero


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Picture a rich-man's Sergio Agüero




All of them poor-man’s Mouki.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> All of them poor-man’s Mouki.




Basically...only without Mouki's size...


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Basically...only without Mouki's size...




Did you watch any of the Germany U17’s recently? What did you think of Paris Brunner? He’s having an incredible run of form the last few months. Well over a goal per game in all competitions.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Did you watch any of the Germany U17’s recently? What did you think of Paris Brunner? He’s having an incredible run of form the last few months. Well over a goal per game in all competitions.




Nah, I don't know much about the 2006ers so haven't checked them out yet. 

Now that things are back on track wrt our young talent, I'm much less anxious about our youth work. So generally only watch teams younger than the u19s when I want to check out specific kids.


...like I did last year for Wanner / Ibrahimovic / Raebiger / Bischof / Ulrich / Weiper / Krattenmacher


----------



## gary69

Inter's Bulgarian forward/attacking midfielder Nikola Iliev (born 2004) with 4 goals today in the Youth CL. Has also already played two senior internationals for Bulgaria this autumn. Won the Primavera with Inter last season.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

cgf said:


> Gavi's not over-rated by most people, but certain Barca homers I know have tried to argue that he & Pedri have been on Musiala's level this season, even after the way Jamal toyed with the two of them last month. So he's certainly over-rated by some folks ;-)




If Jamal toyed anyone it was the corpse's playing on defense lol. 

If Gavi was playing on any of the teams of the haters they would be drooling all over. 

I hope Wirtz recovers well from the injury. Leverkusen are lost without him


----------



## cgf

Vasilevskiy said:


> If Jamal toyed anyone it was the corpse's playing on defense lol.
> 
> If Gavi was playing on any of the teams of the haters they would be drooling all over.
> 
> I hope Wirtz recovers well from the injury. Leverkusen are lost without him




Again, I'm a huge Gavi fan...thus the Kimmich comps I've made for him when not just making "spanish-Wirtz" jokes and why I can't help but laugh at PB's crusade against them...so I'm just teasing. Sure I think Musiala has hit a new level this season that none of his peers have yet, but that doesn't mean that I don't think any of his peers are incredible too.

...that all said, that first Bayern match was a rough one for both young Barca midfielders; as that Pedri-Biscuits-Gavi midfield was getting badly overrun by Musiala & co. until Frenkie came on, and it wasn't just the defense behind them s***ting the bed.

Just one game and all that, thus why I'm only referring to it in a joking manner, but it did happen.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> Again, I'm a huge Gavi fan...thus the Kimmich comps I've made for him when not just making "spanish-Wirtz" jokes and why I can't help but laugh at PB's crusade against them...so I'm just teasing. Sure I think Musiala has hit a new level this season that none of his peers have yet, but that doesn't mean that I don't think any of his peers are incredible too.
> 
> ...that all said, that first Bayern match was a rough one for both young Barca midfielders; as that Pedri-Biscuits-Gavi midfield was getting badly overrun by Musiala & co. until Frenkie came on, and it wasn't just the defense behind them s***ting the bed.
> 
> Just one game and all that, thus why I'm only referring to it in a joking manner, but it did happen.



And when musiala hits the heights of Pedri in euros you may have an argument but at the moment there isn’t a midfielder on Pedri’s level at his age group. Very few at any group


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> And when musiala hits the heights of Pedri in euros you may have an argument but at the moment there isn’t a midfielder on Pedri’s level at his age group. Very few at any group




We're going to have to agree to disagree  

Despite how much praise I heaped on Pedri over the summer, Musiala's been dominant for almost 3 months now, Pedri was excellent for just one...and that one month wasn't any more influential than Jamal has been so far this season. 

The kid has been Bayern's driving force in more matches than not...and even when he's had a more quiet match he's found his way onto the scoresheet.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> We're going to have to agree to disagree
> 
> Despite how much praise I heaped on Pedri over the summer, Musiala's been dominant for almost 3 months now, Pedri was excellent for just one...and that one month wasn't any more influential than Jamal has been so far this season.
> 
> The kid has been Bayern's driving force in more matches than not...and even when he's had a more quiet match he's found his way onto the scoresheet.



He's been very good any time I watch him. I just think Pedri has done it for longer and has reached heights greater.


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> He's been very good any time I watch him. I just think Pedri has done it for longer and has reached heights greater.




Fair enough, prior to this season I had Pedri clearly ahead. So I don't have any qualms with anyone giving Pedri love. I just think the level Jamal's been at these past 3 months is even higher than what any other current teenager has hit so far. 

The kid's up to 10goals+8assists in 18 matches this season, and if anything those #s undersell how well he's played...we'd have a bigger lead on FCB if not for Musiala.


----------



## cgf

Kid has a very real chance of making the final 26. He probably won't start, but I think the 17yo could win the starting spot as the tournament goes along.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Kid has a very real chance of making the final 26. He probably won't start, but I think the 17yo could win the starting spot as the tournament goes along.




Sadly he has no chance to win the Kepa trophy. Probably going to go to Balde next year over Bellingham and Musiala.

Then Lamine will swoop in and take it from Mouki the next year once Bellingham and Musiala age out.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Sadly he has no chance to win the Kepa trophy. Probably going to go to Balde next year over Bellingham and Musiala.
> 
> Then Lamine will swoop in and take it from Mouki the next year once Bellingham and Musiala age out.




Who cares about that when he's going to win the golden boot in qatar?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Too bad madrid will ruin him


----------



## les Habs

Guler with a goal and an assist today in the Europa League.


----------



## cgf

les Habs said:


> Guler with a goal and an assist today in the Europa League.




Kid's going to look great when he comes to the BuLi


----------



## les Habs

Guler should be playing more, but there have apparently been other “Turkish Messi” players who didn’t live up to the hype so he’ll probably have to prove himself in another league first. I tried for him in our keeper league, but wasn’t going to break the bank.


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## cgf

Up to 6 goals + 4 assists in 12 BuLi matches this season for the not-yet-18yo; who has now beaten Wirtz to be the youngest player ever to reach 10 career BuLi goals. 

The kid needs to not just make the squad for Qatar, but he needs to be starting by the knockouts.


----------



## les Habs

Antonio Silva with two goals for Benfica today. Must be one of the hottest young CBs in the game right now. 

On a related Benfica note, now 23 year old Florentino Luis seemingly having his breakout season. Was highly touted in the past and now he's seemingly getting a full opportunity to demonstrate his worth.

Both players doing it in the CL too. Sadly I couldn't touch Silva in the keeper league some of us are in because the owner has another player I want.


----------



## cgf

Fritz Walter medal award recipients have been announced:​
*Jahrgang 2002 – U19-Junioren 2021:*
Gold: Karim Adeyemi (Borussia Dortmund)
Silber: Ansgar Knauff (Eintracht Frankfurt)
Bronze: Noah Atubolu (SC Freiburg)

*Jahrgang 2003 – U19-Junioren 2022:*
Gold: Florian Wirtz (Bayer 04 Leverkusen)
Silber: Luca Netz (Borussia Mönchengladbach)
Bronze: Robert Wagner (SC Freiburg)

*Jahrgang 2004 – U17-Junioren 2021:*
Gold: Youssoufa Moukoko (Borussia Dortmund)
Silber: Linus Gechter (Hertha BSC Berlin)
Bronze: Anton Kade (FC Basel)

*Jahrgang 2005 – U17-Junioren 2022:*
Gold: Nelson Weiper (FSV Mainz 05)
Silber: Laurin Ulrich (VfB Stuttgart)
Bronze: Tarek Buchmann (FC Bayern München)


Wanner & Musiala not getting the gold medals in their age groups are the only big shocks for me.

I'd also probably have swapper Ulrich out for Ibrahimovic, Raebiger, or Bischof as the bronze medal recipient behind Wanner & Weiper, but he's in that same tier. Same thing with the 2002ers; I'd probably have given Dardai or Samardzic a medal, but Knauff & Atubolu are deserving as well.

Anton Kade I haven't seen since he went to switzerland so I would have probably picked Damar, Rothe, or Wenig, but he was a talented prospect when I saw him play for Hertha's youth teams...so I can see that one making sense if he's been progressing well in Basel.


----------



## cgf

Di Salvo gives Weißhaupt, Huseinbasic, & Maurice Malone their U21 debuts:


----------



## cgf

And our U21's won 4-2 in Italy. After Huseinbasic scored on his debut for the U21s, Samardzic & Schade...who was playing at the 9...stretched the lead to 3-0, with Malone adding the 4th on his debut as well. 

Looks like both Samardzic & Schade were really buzzing in this, even beyond their goals. I really like Schade and think he has a great chance to make the leap into that elite tier if he stays healthy & puts it all together. The physical tools are all A++ and his technical level is more than good enough to take advantage of that quickness/speed/leaping, at even the highest level.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Garnacho is butt hurt he didn’t get a call up. Now he’s like all the Spanish stuff on social media lol. Smh


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Garnacho is butt hurt he didn’t get a call up. Now he’s like all the Spanish stuff on social media lol. Smh




Wanner's been making similar grumbles about not being promoted to our u21 team. Kid accepted a call-up to Austria's camp this winter.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Spurs' under the radar summer signing impressing and training with Conte's team


The teenager has been catching the eye after adapting to life at Tottenham Hotspur since arriving from Sheffield United in the summer




www.football.london


----------



## Nairolfi

Gvardiol has to be the best young player in the tournament. Unbelievable how good he already is. Leipzig got a gem in him and will surely get ~100m


----------



## cgf

Nairolfi said:


> Gvardiol has to be the best young player in the tournament. Unbelievable how good he already is. Leipzig got a gem in him and will surely get ~100m




He's a stud. I really love Nico and he was the better left-footed young CB in the BuLi last year, but Gvardiol has taken another step this year and is just so damn smooth. Like a left-footed Hummels, only faster...


----------



## les Habs

Nairolfi said:


> Gvardiol has to be the best young player in the tournament. Unbelievable how good he already is. Leipzig got a gem in him and will surely get ~100m




They’re rumored to replace him with Sutalo, who isn’t really a true replacement. The Red Bull group should be looking at Luka Vuskovic though. Too young for Leipzig at the moment, but get him cheap now.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Nairolfi said:


> Gvardiol has to be the best young player in the tournament. Unbelievable how good he already is. Leipzig got a gem in him and will surely get ~100m



Alas, because award voters hate defenders, he won’t win YP of the tournament. Bellingham has it locked up I think


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Alas, because award voters hate defenders, he won’t win YP of the tournament. Bellingham has it locked up I think



Enzo has a good chance.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Enzo has a good chance.



Hadn't clocked that he was still 21 (turns 22 in January). Good shout, but I don't think he has the hype train Bellingham does


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Hadn't clocked that he was still 21 (turns 22 in January). Good shout, but I don't think he has the hype train Bellingham does



Could be ... Im just saying he has a chance. Potentially 2 games to go as well.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Could be ... Im just saying he has a chance. Potentially 2 games to go as well.



guaranteed two games - the question is whether or not the second one matters


----------



## Savant

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Could be ... Im just saying he has a chance. Potentially 2 games to go as well.



Enzo was 33/1 for best young player pre-tournament


----------



## bluesfan94

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Hadn't clocked that he was still 21 (turns 22 in January). Good shout, but I don't think he has the hype train Bellingham does



Bellingham wasn't even the best young player on his own team


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

bluesfan94 said:


> Bellingham wasn't even the best young player on his own team



At most generous to Saka (who has been amazing, and who you know I am a big big big fan of), it's a coin flip. Bellingham has had a huge media narrative behind him through the whole tournament that Saka hasn't.


----------



## bluesfan94

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> At most generous to Saka (who has been amazing, and who you know I am a big big big fan of), it's a coin flip. Bellingham has had a huge media narrative behind him through the whole tournament that Saka hasn't.



Saka was the best player against France. Bellingham got shut down by the USMNT


----------



## Islesfan22

les Habs said:


> They’re rumored to replace him with Sutalo, who isn’t really a true replacement. The Red Bull group should be looking at Luka Vuskovic though. Too young for Leipzig at the moment, but get him cheap now.



PSG put a 5 million bid for Luka Vuskovic not to long ago. Would be wise for him to stay in Croatia for his career until at least 19 like Gvardiol did. He might be a better talent then Gvardiol at the same age.


----------



## Savant

Might be due more minutes in second half of the season. Kind of lost in the LFC midfield disaster is their best prospect just might be viable there


----------

