# Soccer Prospect Discussion Thread IV



## Wee Baby Seamus

Last thread was at capacity. We were just talking Reece Oxford and CCV


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## bluesfan94

*Soccer Prospects Part IV*

The old thread got full. Let's see how good our predictions are in the future.


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## Virtanen18

The old thread was from 2009 lol


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## spintheblackcircle

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/01/marcus-edwards-spurs-contract

Marcus Edwards, the 17-year-old Tottenham Hotspur midfielder, is locked in a stand-off with the club and has not signed the professional contract that was put before him last December.

The attacking midfielder, who is rated as one of the best prospects from his age-group in England, remains on his scholarship deal, which expires in the summer of next year and, as things stand, he could then leave as a free agent for a fee fixed at a tribunal.

A host of leading clubs in England and mainland Europe – alerted, in particular, by his performances for England Under-17s – have tracked his progress and they sense that he could be poached from Tottenham.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

They gotta get him signed. Not a player they want to lose.


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## cgf

Gunna save this on the first page here in case something happens to this computer. Just a note I maintain for myself with lists of germany prospects/u23s that I've either seen enough of; or whom I've heard enough about, from people I've learned to trust when they gush about a kid; to be excited-to/interested-in follow(ing) the development of. Loosely ranked on talent level/potential, though with how much of their potential I feel like a player will actually make us of being a factor as well...and in some case I had to break players up by where they were in their development...or just to make it more readable.

* Players with asterixes are extreme long shots in my eyes, but who's talent put them on the lists purely on potential, in case they do put it all together

*Forwards/Wingers:*
J. Eggestein (17)
Draxler (22)
Werner (19)
*Avdijaj (19)
Dadachov (16)
Volland (23)
*Kurt (19)
Brandt (19)
Sane (20)
Ochs (18)
Vujinovic ('99)
Bunjaki (18)
Saglam (17)

Waldschmidt (19)
Selke (20)
M. Philipp (21)
Bytyqi (18)
D. Parker (19)
Cueto (19)



*10s:*
Meyer (20) / Gotze (23)
Ar. Ferati (18)
_Oztunali (19)_ - I expect him to move to the 8 at some point
B. Henrichs (18)
Schreck (16)
Amiri (19)
Barry (19)
Ali Ferati (16)
M. Eggestein (19)


*8s (b2bs and passers):*
LeGo (20)
Dahoud (20) / Oztunali (19)
Akkaynak (17)
Stendera (20)
Can (22)
Arnold (21)
Gerhardt (21)
Kohr (21)
Baby-Khedira (21)
Demirbay (22)
---------------
Mehlem (18)
Christiansen (19)
Burnic (17)
Ozcan (18)
Serdar (18)
Janelt (17)
Tillman (17)
Ozturk (19)
Zickert (18)
Gaudino (19)

*6s:*
Kimmich (20)
Geis (22)
Besuschkow (18)
Weigl (20)
Meffert (21)
Ristl (19)
Dorch (17)
_Bauer (20)_
Stark (20)
Promel (21)



*FBs:*
P. Itter (20)
Passlack (17)
*Dudziak (20)
Akyol (17)
D. Itter (17) / G.L. Itter (17)
Bader (18)
Karakas (17)
*da Costa (22)
Klostermann (19)
Weiser (21)
Plattenhart (23)
Mittelstadt (18)

N.Schulz (22)
Durm (23)
Korb (23)
Toljan (21)
Zimmer (22)
Gunter (22)



*CBs:*
Tah (19)
Gul (17) - Likely ends up a 6, but I'd love to see him remain a CB.
*Ginter (21)
*Rudiger (22)
Sule (20)
Kehrer (19)
Mustafi (23)
Gimber (18)
_Karakas (17)_
Kempf (20)

_Klostermann (19)_
Torunarigha (18)
Baumgartl (19)
Heintz (22)
Knoche (23)
Orban (23)
Friedrich (20)
M.Schulz (20)

I know I've forgotten some guys worth mentioning here.



*GKs:*
MAtS (23)
Leno (23)
Horn (22)
Karius (22)
Mueller (22)

Wellenreuther (20)
Vlachodimos (21)
J. Huth (21)

Konigsmann (18)
Schubert (17)
Steve Kroll (18) - Union Berlin

I can't judge keepers until I see them against pros; so I ended the list there and just named a couple who seem to be atop their age groups, but whom I can't rate.


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## hotcabbagesoup

Wow what a post cgf!


I guess you watch German football a lot. You're now my source for knowledge and opinion on Bundesliga hahaha. Much more intelligent than reading all that junk that DeficiencyMod dude says.


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## cgf

That's unnecessarily confrontational. DM and I disagree on certain players (Geis being a prime example) and some things tactically (see our disagreements about Schmidt); but he knows the BuLi, and BVB in particular, very well.


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## Deficient Mode

PopaneNightscare said:


> Wow what a post cgf!
> 
> 
> I guess you watch German football a lot. You're now my source for knowledge and opinion on Bundesliga hahaha. Much more intelligent than reading all that junk that DeficiencyMod dude says.




Oh damn you got me good


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## phv

cgf said:


> Gunna save this on the first page here in case something happens to this computer. Just a note I maintain for myself with lists of germany prospects/u23s that I've either seen enough of; or whom I've heard enough about, from people I've learned to trust when they gush about a kid; to be excited-to/interested-in follow(ing) the development of. Loosely ranked on talent level/potential, though with how much of their potential I feel like a player will actually make us of being a factor as well...and in some case I had to break players up by where they were in their development...or just to make it more readable.
> 
> * Players with asterixes are extreme long shots in my eyes, but who's talent put them on the lists purely on potential, in case they do put it all together
> 
> *Forwards/Wingers:*
> J. Eggestein (17)
> Draxler (22)
> Werner (19)
> *Avdijaj (19)
> Dadachov (16)
> Volland (23)
> *Kurt (19)
> Brandt (19)
> Sane (20)
> Ochs (18)
> Bunjaki (18)
> Saglam (17)
> 
> Waldschmidt (19)
> Selke (20)
> M. Philipp (21)
> Bytyqi (18)
> D. Parker (19)
> Cueto (19)
> 
> 
> 
> *10s:*
> Meyer (20) / Gotze (23)
> Ar. Ferati (18)
> _Oztunali (19)_ - I expect him to move to the 8 at some point
> B. Henrichs (18)
> Schreck (16)
> Amiri (19)
> Barry (19)
> Ali Ferati (16)
> M. Eggestein (19)
> 
> 
> *8s (b2bs and passers):*
> LeGo (20)
> Dahoud (20) / Oztunali (19)
> Akkaynak (17)
> Stendera (20)
> Can (22)
> Arnold (21)
> Gerhardt (21)
> Kohr (21)
> Baby-Khedira (21)
> Demirbay (22)
> ---------------
> Mehlem (18)
> Christiansen (19)
> Burnic (17)
> Ozcan (18)
> Serdar (18)
> Janelt (17)
> Tillman (17)
> Ozturk (19)
> Zickert (18)
> Gaudino (19)
> 
> *6s:*
> Kimmich (20)
> Geis (22)
> Besuschkow (18)
> Weigl (20)
> Meffert (21)
> Ristl (19)
> Dorch (17)
> _Bauer (20)_
> Stark (20)
> Promel (21)
> 
> 
> 
> *FBs:*
> P. Itter (20)
> Passlack (17)
> *Dudziak (20)
> Akyol (17)
> D. Itter (17) / G.L. Itter (17)
> Bader (18)
> Karakas (17)
> *da Costa (22)
> Klostermann (19)
> Weiser (21)
> Plattenhart (23)
> Mittelstadt (18)
> 
> N.Schulz (22)
> Durm (23)
> Korb (23)
> Toljan (21)
> Zimmer (22)
> Gunter (22)
> 
> 
> 
> *CBs:*
> Tah (19)
> Gul (17) - Likely ends up a 6, but I'd love to see him remain a CB.
> *Ginter (21)
> *Rudiger (22)
> Sule (20)
> Kehrer (19)
> Mustafi (23)
> Gimber (18)
> _Karakas (17)_
> Kempf (20)
> 
> _Klostermann (19)_
> Torunarigha (18)
> Baumgartl (19)
> Heintz (22)
> Knoche (23)
> Orban (23)
> Friedrich (20)
> M.Schulz (20)
> 
> I know I've forgotten some guys worth mentioning here.
> 
> 
> 
> *GKs:*
> MAtS (23)
> Leno (23)
> Horn (22)
> Karius (22)
> Mueller (22)
> 
> Wellenreuther (20)
> Vlachodimos (21)
> J. Huth (21)
> 
> Konigsmann (18)
> Schubert (17)
> Steve Kroll (18) - Union Berlin
> 
> I can't judge keepers until I see them against pros; so I ended the list there and just named a couple who seem to be atop their age groups, but whom I can't rate.




Can you please tell me what you've heard about Enis Bunjaki and Akkaynak?

By the way, Besuschkow is not a 6. He is a number 10 and I guess he could play as a box-to-box midfielder too. Barry is a winger and I think he could turn into a good attacking right-back if given the opportunity. The way Christian Pulisic dribbled past Danny da Costa(who is 5 years older) on several occasions in the recent match between Ingolstadt and Dortmund was very disappointing. Unfortunately, he(da Costa) can't defend but is good going forward. You forgot to mention that Yannick Gerhardt has the potential to be a top left-back.


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## Deficient Mode

phv said:


> Can you please tell me what you've heard about Enis Bunjaki and Akkaynak?
> 
> By the way, Besuschkow is not a 6. He is a number 10 and I guess he could play as a box-to-box midfielder too. Barry is a winger and I think he could turn into a good attacking right-back if given the opportunity. The way Christian Pulisic dribbled past Danny da Costa(who is 5 years older) on several occasions in the recent match between Ingolstadt and Dortmund was very disappointing. Unfortunately, he(da Costa) can't defend but is good going forward. You forgot to mention that Yannick Gerhardt has the potential to be a top left-back.




Gerhardt as left back? I doubt he would make that shift at the club level.


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## cgf

I forget if it was for one of the NTs or what, but Gerhardt did look really good at LB somewhere. I remember watching him and getting annoyed that noone had tried doing that with Maxi Arnold...who I think would make an excellent LB if moved there. The problem is that, like with Maxi, it seems highly unlikely for him to make that switch at club level in the forseeable future; and without that I can't see him getting the time in at that spot.

Besi's just got deep sitting playmaker written all over him IMO. Just like it was with Toni Kroos back when he still played as a 10. I dunno as much about how his development in stuttgart is going as the Stuttgart kids I only find much out about when they're with the various NTs; but a creative 6 is where I see him fitting with the NT, if he develops well and reaches the senior-NT level.

Da Costa's defensive incompetence is a big part of why there's an asterisk next to his name. As you say, he's gifted in attack, but by his age you'd like to see some semblance of defensive ability to start showing itself. Still talented enough to make a real career of it if he ever does figure it out, or if he grows enough in his attacking influence to become dynamic enough to make up for it; a la Marcelo.


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## YNWA14

Neat, I'll do the same as cgf but for Dutch players (I won't list players that have declared, or are likely to, play for other NTs). My information comes from a combination of watching youth games/nationals when I can, and a private discussions group I'm a part of with some folks over in the Netherlands that regularly watch the youth teams and discuss them (we even keep a few charts with player rankings, etc.)

I'm not huge on ranking them just because especially the younger you go there's so much that can change. I'm a big fan of just picking out the top talents, but I've tried to kind of order them in what would be a general ranking with lots of wiggle room.

*Forwards/Wingers*
Steven Bergwijn (97)
Bobby Adekanye (99)
Justin Kluivert (99)
Che Nunnely (99)
Memphis Depay (93)
Quincy Promes (92)
Sam Lammers (97)
Vincent Janssen (93)*
Jean-Paul Boetius (93)
Rashaan Fernandes (98)
Javairo Dilrosun (98)
Anwar El Ghazi (95)
Richairo Zivkovic (96)

Bergwijn is the crown jewel of this group, but the 99s are very promising and highly regarded. Janssen is a bit funny because he's a late bloomer, but is showing a lot of really positive attributes this season (from movement, to strength, two footedness, etc.) he just lacks in pace.

*10s/Attacking CMs*
Abdelhak Nouri (97)
Mink Peeters (98)
Daley Sinkgraven (95)
Frenkie De Jong (97)
Tonny Vilhena (95)*
Bart Ramselaar (96)
Kenneth Paal (97)
Jari Schuurman (97)
Adam Maher (93)
Dabney dos Santos (96)

Vilhena is playing a bit deeper nowdays, so may be more of an 8 than a 10, though most Dutch teams don't play with a "10" in the normal sense since they almost all play the 4-3-3. Still Nouri is an all world talent and I expect big things from him (as does most of the Dutch football world).

*CM/DMs*
Donny van de Beek (97)
Carel Eiting (98)
Riechedly Bazoer (96)
Davy Klaassen (93)
Davy Propper (91)
Rodney Kongolo (98)
Marco van Ginkel (92)
Jorrit Hendrix (95)
Yassin(e) Ayoub (94)
Rewan Amin (96)

MaraDonny tops the list. He can sometimes act as a more attacking midfielder, but really he's a great all-rounder. Eiting is a really silky guy as well, and I expect he'll be quite good. I kept this group together because there's generally still quite a bit of movement, and even some of the 10s/AMs get moved further back in time with physical progression (Sinkgraven could end up more of an 8 as well). Same with the defenders which is why I kept them in the same group.

*CBs/FBs*
Timothy Fosu-Mensah (98)
Calvin Verdonk (97)
Jetro Willems (94)
Mathijs de Ligt (99)
Terence Kongolo (94)
Jairo Riedewald (96)
Joel Veltman (92)
Kenny Tete (95)
Wesley Hoedt (94)
Joost van Aken (94)
Jerry St. Juste (96)
Rick Karsdorp (95)
Kevin Diks (96)
Mats Knoester (98)
Julian Lelieveld (97)

Some of these I just don't really know where to rank against eachother because I find defenders a bit hard to read. It's one of those positions I find you learn a lot more as the player gets older and more experienced. Talent and physicality alone will not make a great defender. Still, this is how I see it.

I don't rate keepers for the most part. Cheers.


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## Juni

Looking forward to seeing some of those close-up in the next fortnight, Chelsea play PSV in an Under-21 game tonight and Ajax in an U19 one the week after next so there's a great opportunity to get a look.


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## YNWA14

Juni said:


> Looking forward to seeing some of those close-up in the next fortnight, Chelsea play PSV in an Under-21 game tonight and Ajax in an U19 one the week after next so there's a great opportunity to get a look.




That'll be pretty cool. It'll be interesting to see who gets fielded for each. I can't think of a better youth midfield than Nouri-van de Beek-Eiting at any point I've watched youth soccer -- it's really impressive. Ligt is still super young but the top talent of his age group probably, and they have de Jong, Nunnely and Kluivert registered as well though less likely to play. I'm looking forward to that game.

Depending on who PSV play they have some nice players to watch also. Bergwijn is the one worth really watching, but Paal, Leemans and Lammers should all play also.


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## Juni

This is the squad they're bringing, includes Maher.



> Jesse Bertrams, Luuk Koopmans, Suently Alberto, Steven Bergwijn, Aleksandar Boljevic, Laros Duarte, Albert Gudmundsson, Menno Koch, Clint Leemans, Augustine Loof, Ramon Pascal Lundqvist, Adam Maher, Kenneth Paal, Luiz Beto da Silva, Bram van Vlerken, Jordy de Wijs.


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## YNWA14

Juni said:


> This is the squad they're bringing, includes Maher.




*Chelsea:* Beeney, Dabo (c), T.Chalobah, Conroy, Wright, Houghton, Kiwomya, Quintero, Abraham, Palmer, Mitchell.

*PSV:* Koopmans, Van Vlerken, Koch, De Wijs, Alberto, Leemans, Lundqvist, Paal, Bergwijn, Maher, Boljevic

Not sure about the Chelsea youth, though I've heard really good things about Chalobah and Abraham. Pretty strong team from PSV though especially since Maher has been a senior player for years already (but is a lazy sob). Still, I expect Bergwijn to be the stand out.


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## Evilo

Ousmane Dembele is nominated among the 3 finalists for Player of the Month in february. Not sure he'll beat Zlatan however but he should finish 2nd.


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## YNWA14

Juni said:


> This is the squad they're bringing, includes Maher.




Did you get a chance to watch the game? I only read about it. I know a Chelsea own-goal and a Bergwijn goal put PSV through to the semis, but it sounds like PSV parked it in the second half (or just couldn't get a hold on the ball).


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## Juni

Pretty much, though I think PSV were happy to do that because Chelsea weren't able to challenge them in as many ways as they're capable of. It wasn't the strongest possible Chelsea team but that's not really the point, they had enough quality to play better than they did and PSV defended well when they had to. Menno Koch was a standout, Jody De Wijs not far behind, Paal was tidy in midfield but didn't get a lot of the ball and deferred to Maher quite a bit, and Bergwijn was sharp but too often isolated in a defence approach. Took his goal very nicely.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo, do you know anything about Tim Weah at PSG? He's the son of George Weah. I think he's 15 or 16, and recently scored something crazy like five goals in a youth game. Is he usually mentioned as one of PSG's best prospects? 

He plays for the USA at international level, so I'm curious how good he is.


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## Juni

He spent some time at Chelsea about two years ago, was a decent prospect but didn't end up signing. Remember him as being absolutely rapid, also watched him for the US U16s against England a coupla months back and he looked alright, has a trick to beat you one v one, plays with intelligence and has enough to develop with going forward for sure.


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## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Evilo, do you know anything about Tim Weah at PSG? He's the son of George Weah. I think he's 15 or 16, and recently scored something crazy like five goals in a youth game. Is he usually mentioned as one of PSG's best prospects?
> 
> He plays for the USA at international level, so I'm curious how good he is.




Pretty much what Juni said. From the little time I've seen him, he seems like a very quick guy and smart guy.
He doesn't strike me as having anything close to his father's technique, but then again, who does?


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## bluesfan94

Where do you guys watch all of the youth games?


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## Evilo

Feeds, traveling, footage from friends, etc...


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## Juni

Weah played in this tournament, all three links are to the full matches if you're so inclined:


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Juni said:


> Weah played in this tournament, all three links are to the full matches if you're so inclined:





Thanks!

I'm going to try to watch some of those matches when I get some time.


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## YNWA14

bluesfan94 said:


> Where do you guys watch all of the youth games?




For Liverpool it's really easy because LiverpoolTV posts all of the footage, highlights and full matches on LFCTV Go (on top of all the senior stuff, training, interviews, etc.) For someone like me it's more than worth the Â£7 a month.

With the Dutch youth it's a bit tougher, but Ajax also offers a TV service and highlights for their youth (which means you can get a good look at other youth teams as well) while that group I'm a part of regularly posts footage from games they've visited as well as anecdote. Then for most youth internationals there are various streams available though a bit tougher to find. You can also find a lot of recorded video if you dig enough (like above) because with a lot of youth stuff the copyrights are not cracked down on nearly as much (if there are any at all).

Plus, if you follow a lot of leagues below the top 5 the real cream of the crop youngsters tend to make full debuts earlier than in the big 5 (although I think L1 also has quite a large youth crop).


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## cgf

bluesfan94 said:


> Where do you guys watch all of the youth games?




The dfb and some german clubs actually link or archive a good chunk of their youth teams' matches...or at least they used to (though i'm pretty sure fohlen.tv still does). This year I've mostly been watching crappy internet streams, trying to go to as many matches/tournaments as I can when I've been in Germany, and relying on my friends back home to keep me in the loop/send me game tapes...at least when they know that they're allowed to distribute them outside of the club; cause one of my friends almost got herself fired for sending me copies of games without their permission.

Additionally; BigSoccer has a good thread about german youths, for reading up on the kids general results. Some of the regulars who are still there have blatant biases, and a couple have really out-dated football-philosophies; but that thread used to be gold and some of the current regulars do a good job of tracking our kids...even if they are often overly optimistic on lesser-talents. It's a shame that most of the best posters from that thread either started his own website and became utterly unbearable to discuss anything with, even for those of us he agreed with on football-philosophy or whom he liked; or they stopped having time to post because they got jobs within the german youth development network.


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## Evilo

Dembele has just scored in the first minute of the derby.


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## Evilo

Dembele with a brace before halftime.


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## TravisR81

Evilo said:


> Dembele with a brace before halftime.




Hat trick, no? Don't think anyone touched the free kick.


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## Evilo

Marked as assist.

In other news, MbappÃ© has signed his first pro contract with Monaco, rejecting offers from PSG, Arsenal, Real and Bayern.

EDIT : You're right, it is now given as a goal. So Dembele had a hattrick before the half.


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## YNWA14

Oh my, Johannes.


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## Evilo

PSG will face Real Madrid in the CL youth cup semis.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Curtinho said:


> Oh my, Johannes.





This guy is so good. Is that still U-19 or is that now the reserve team? He should be playing first team football though.


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## Juni

Evilo said:


> PSG will face Real Madrid in the CL youth cup semis.




The other is Anderlecht vs Chelsea or Ajax. Five top quality teams left.


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## Evilo

Nkunku scored a beauty of a free kick BTW.


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## Juni

He did indeed. Several of this PSG team were in the French Euro U17 winning squad from last summer, a hugely talented generation.


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## Evilo

Yep, great generation.


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## Savi

Juni said:


> The other is Anderlecht vs Chelsea or Ajax. Five top quality teams left.




Anderlecht aren't very good this year, they lost to Dinamo Zagreb but that result was overturned because Dinamo fielded an eligible player. They should have lost against BarÃ§a but the many, many chances were missed and Anderlecht made the most of out of the few opportunities they got. 
It's a hard working team but they're not on the talent level they were last year when they also reached the final four. Chelsea or Ajax should easily handle them.


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## YNWA14

The thing is with kids that young is that their performances can be really erratic. I would think the final would be PSG vs. Ajax this year but either could still have a throwaway performance.


----------



## Fulham

England U-16 Captain Ryan Sessegnon is one to watch.

At Fulham Currently
Has Won MVP at Multiple Int. Youth Tournaments(U-16 Premier League) with Fulham's U-16's
Considered Best Left Sided Youth prospect since Gareth Bale.

Arsenal, And Manu Had offers rebuffed this past window. 

Second Best player on Fulham's Elite U-16's is his Twin brother Steven Who was voted Best Defender in the U-16 Premier league


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Fulham, how's De La Torre doing at Fulham? Any chance he debuts soon with the first team? He's been getting a lot of playing time with the U-21's. Is he impressing?


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## Juni

Fulham said:


> England U-16 Captain Ryan Sessegnon is one to watch.
> 
> At Fulham Currently
> Has Won MVP at Multiple Int. Youth Tournaments(U-16 Premier League) with Fulham's U-16's
> Considered Best Left Sided Youth prospect since Gareth Bale.
> 
> Arsenal, And Manu Had offers rebuffed this past window.
> 
> Second Best player on Fulham's Elite U-16's is his Twin brother Steven Who was voted Best Defender in the U-16 Premier league




Massive fan of Ryan. I know he's only a club U15 atm (international U16 due to the difference in the ways they separate DoBs) but Matt O'Riley is up there with him too.


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## Juni

Savi said:


> Anderlecht aren't very good this year, they lost to Dinamo Zagreb but that result was overturned because Dinamo fielded an eligible player. They should have lost against BarÃ§a but the many, many chances were missed and Anderlecht made the most of out of the few opportunities they got.
> It's a hard working team but they're not on the talent level they were last year when they also reached the final four. Chelsea or Ajax should easily handle them.




Interesting, thanks. Always hard for Anderlecht, found it incredible they were able to reach last season's Semi Finals with a generation that had already seen Musonda, Azzaoui and Bossaerts stolen from them and Tielemans also eligible but having graduated to the first team.


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## Power Man

That Boulaya kid is promising


Gourcuff, call him up!


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Matt Olosunde joins Manchester United. He just turned 18 today and joins from New York Red Bulls. He's a big right-back who has loads of pace going forward and is a good defender. He doesn't have much skill on the ball, but the pace+defense combo makes him a good player. He's also capable of playing center-back.


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## YNWA14

Who would you compare Ousmane Dembele to? Seems to be putting on quite the show at 18.


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## Evilo

It's tough, I don't remember a striker playing this well in L1 this young (admitting Hazard isn't a stiker here). 

He's a guy that can dribble with ease. He seems to glide past defensemen. He's perfectly ambidextrous so defensemen can never cheat on one side.
Anelka could be a comparison, but he's miles better than Anelka was at 18 (though Anelka was a seriously good stiker with Arsenal at that age). Where they could compare is that ability to always make the good control beating the defenseman on that first touch.

Call me crazy, but he could step in with the NT and not look out of place RIGHT NOW.

I guess the best comparison is Neymar in that he's already so good so young and can be a threat anywhere on the forward front. He's less flashy in his dribbles than Neymar, he's more Hazard like in his dribbles (efficient short dribbles).

Over the last 10 years on these boards, I have talked about three comparable players in terms of potential : Hazard, Ben Arfa and M'Vila.
M'Vila crashed his career because of non-football problems, Ben Arfa so far doesn't have the smartness of a champion (but more talent than most of the best players in the world) and Hazard, save for this year, has developped into one of the best offensive players on the planet.
IF (big if) Dembele has the mindset of a champion (too early to say, I have heard some conflicting reports on his intelligence from Rennes officials I know), then the sky is the limit.
Unfortunately, you can judge the football skills of any player, but until we know what they have between the ears....
Look at the Menez/Nasri/Benzema/Ben Arfa generation. Should have dominated the world if the skills were the only factor.


----------



## Evilo

That said, if Barca is ready to pony up 38M€ on him, I'm not the only one drooling over him.


----------



## Power Man

A few notable Le Havre products :


----------



## Plato

Not to mention Boumsong.
The legend.


----------



## Evilo

Yep, great academy !


----------



## cgf

So Bunjaki's suspension is already starting to cost him PT with the U19 NT. With Waldschmidt's difficult season, that team is starting to look awfully thin in front of what should be a lovely midfield & strong backline. Wonder if this gets Ochs a look as the man up front, rather than as a second striker/winger. Would be cool, since his nose for goal has gotten a lot of praise from his coaches, alongside nice pace and technical skills.

EDIT:
Looking at page 1, I see that I never commented on Atakan Akkaynak here, my apologies: 
What makes him stand out to me, is that he seems to have an exceptional understanding of how to support possession and pressing for his age. This trait is one that makes me such a fan of Gul's as well. Akkaynak's team-mates gush about how he's always exactly where they need somebody to be when a change-in- or contested- possession needs some sorting out. He seems to have a lot of Khedira/Kramer...both of whom I rate very highly for a modern possession side, at least when on form & fit...in his understanding of where the collective lacks support; and you can see the influence of Arturo Vidal (whom he credits as his defensive-role-model) on the way he attacks the ball when it's loose or we're out of possession.

He may not (quite) have the class of his offensive-role-model, Andres Iniesta, but his skill is a cut above Khedira/Kramer's and again you can see the spaniard's influence in how possessions can flow through Akkaynak to the attackers. Emre Can is probably the closest comparable for a recent german prospect with a similar style and talent level, as Gul doesn't cover as much ground or push forward as freely and Khedira/Kramer aren't as skilled. Can with perhaps more raw talent (arguably) & traditional-leadership-skills, though Akkaynak's understanding of the game is brought up as a strength more than Can's was at a similar stage in development; and that's with merit.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Christian Pulisic has been called up to the US National Team, but he's sick right now. If he recovers in time, he might get his debut against Guatemala on Tuesday.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Does anyone know anything about Marlos Moreno? Some of the South American football experts are saying he's the next big star from that continent.


----------



## cgf

Highly rated '99er, Valentino Vujinovic, has turned down attention from multiple first league clubs...HSV having led the pack and made a big push for him...to continue his development with Karlsruhe and has signed a contract with them through 2021. Locking up one of the biggest talents from their own academy is great news for a club who's done so much for german youth development in recent years and deserves to get some fat transfer fees.


----------



## hotcabbagesoup

McSorleyStick said:


> A few notable Le Havre products :




Who are the guys in the top left and bottom left?


And thank you for this set of pics, seeing Stevie makes me happy he's the best


----------



## JimboA

PopaneNightscare said:


> Who are the guys in the top left and bottom left?
> 
> 
> And thank you for this set of pics, seeing Stevie makes me happy he's the best




Top left is Lassana Diarra.


----------



## Plato

Bottom left is Benjamin Mendy.


----------



## Evilo

One of the most prestigious U16 tournaments, Montaigu, has seen the US beat France in the final (2-1). Timothy Weah scored for the US. Adli (PSG) won MVP.


----------



## ecemleafs

Patrick Roberts scored 2 for Celtic today. He's on loan from Citeh.

his 1st goal.





his 2nd goal.





skilled and quick. u can see why citeh spent so much on him.


----------



## Evilo

Dembele has scored again !


----------



## Live in the Now

Evilo said:


> Dembele has scored again !



Shouldn't have counted.


----------



## Evilo

Yup. But those do count as stats, just like Messi's or Ronaldo's


----------



## Evilo

Make that 2 goals for Dembele ! Nice, nice goal.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> Make that 2 goals for Dembele ! Nice, nice goal.




At this rate, do you think he could make France's squad for the Euros?


----------



## Evilo

It's really talked about here. I'm among those who believe he should be that wild card.

But DD won't do it. He won't because he wants guys who play on big teams. He won't because he doesn't like youngsters like that. He won't because (and that one is actually understandable) he'd then have to choose 5 guys out of : Benzema, Giroud, Gignac, Payet, Fekir, Griezmann, Coman, Martial and Ben Arfa.
Benzema is a special case, but if he is eligible, he'll go.
Then you have Coman, Martial, Giroud and Griezmann who will go.
So Dembele will have to beat Payet, Fekir, Gignac, Ben Arfa, Gameiro, Lacazette and potentially Ribery.
Not gonna happen, as much as I'd like him to go. If Benzema doesn't go to the Euros, then he has a long long shot. If Benz goes, then Dembele really doesn't have a spot for him in DD's mind.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Gameiro should be there somehow, he has been unreal this season. Better than Giroud and Martila easily


----------



## Evilo

I like Gameiro too, and he's an efficient striker. But there's no way DD selects him over Giroud (who can be useful in some games with his size) and Martial (who can dribble through defenses).
And DD is still not trying Martial at CF, which is, IMO, a mistake.


----------



## Evilo

Some stats about Dembele :
- he has 7 goals in his last 5 L1 games.
- he has 12 goals and 5 assists in 20 L1 games.
- Rennes has gone from lower table to 3rd in the league since he's starting.
- Only Zlatan has more goal per game (also per minute) than him in L1 (that includes Cavani, Di Maria, Lacazette, Ben Arfa, Batshuayi, Ben Yedder, etc...).

And he's 18.


----------



## Power Man

Mah boy Zakaria scored this weekend for Atletico de Madrid DH Juvenil vs Real Madrid (their GK is Luca Zidane)

(2-1 for Real Madrid)


Looking forward to what he can do next season with the B team (reserves)


----------



## YNWA14

The real question is...is Dembele better than Messi at the same age?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Never mind


----------



## Evilo

Curtinho said:


> The real question is...is Dembele better than Messi at the same age?



If you're being sarcastic, I don't see the point. I never made the comparison, nor should it be made. Dembele could be a great player without being talked about as the GOAT.

If you're being serious, there's a huge step still between 18 yo Dembele and 18 yo Messi.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Dembele has better stats than Messi at the same age, but they weren't playing in the same league.


----------



## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Dembele has better stats than Messi at the same age, but they weren't playing in the same league.




This is more or less what I was alluding to. I wasn't being sarcastic or making fun of Evilo. It's always hard to compare across generations (it's been a decade) and different leagues, but Dembele is certainly staking a claim as the best 18 year old on the planet, and people are always interested to see who is going to be that 'next big thing'.


----------



## Evilo

The eye test is there. Messi was already better than Dembele when he was 16.
Not to take anything away from Dembele because he's a superb youngster. But surely not a new Messi.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> The eye test is there. Messi was already better than Dembele when he was 16.
> Not to take anything away from Dembele because he's a superb youngster. But surely not a new Messi.




Yeah, I assumed he was making fun of you. Dembele is a very good player already but Messi comparisons get thrown around too readily.


----------



## YNWA14

I wasn't comparing him to Messi (I was asking), but I only see highlights of Dembele. It's more that everyone is always looking for that next big thing so whenever a really young player is stepping up and really putting on a show those kind of comparisons are inevitable.


----------



## Evilo

Let's say he has arguably more impact at his age than any player in Ligue 1 history. That's already quite a feat.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Evilo said:


> Let's say he has arguably more impact at his age than any player in Ligue 1 history. That's already quite a feat.




A more reasonable question, then, would be to ask if he's better at this age than Hazard was?


----------



## Evilo

Tough to say. He has more impact, no question. Hazard was a wizard but he really had major impact a year later at 19.
Hazard won best prospect at 18, won it again at 19 and was finalist for MVP.
Dembele should win prospect of the year this year and if he had played the whole season, would probably be finalist for MVP.

I'd say he's achieving what Hazard achieved, only a year younger.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Cheers. Safe to say Dembele is a good bet for the Golden Boy this year, Dele Alli is the only real competition I can think of (I am, of course, inviting people to mention names to prove me wrong).

Curiously enough, just discovered that Hazard never won the Golden Boy award? I refuse to accept that.


----------



## Live in the Now

He reminds me of C. Ronaldo. The only negative critique I'd have is that sometimes he holds onto the ball too long, which is just like Ronaldo. Given his physical traits it's surprising he has such good technique, usually players as fast as him are a little one footed. Not him though.


----------



## Evilo

He can't say if he's right or left footed actually 
I've rarely seen perfectly ambidextrous players.


----------



## Live in the Now

Evilo said:


> He can't say if he's right or left footed actually
> I've rarely seen perfectly ambidextrous players.




Other than Cazorla and Hernanes I think all of them were world class at one point as well.


----------



## Evilo

Ronaldo, Zidane, Iniesta, Nedved, Pirlo, Villa, Gerrard, Maldini, Forlan... 
Off the top of my head and even then, they do favor one foot over the other (except Forlan).


----------



## Live in the Now

Brehme too, took World Cup penalties with both feet. That sounds crazy to me especially now. I don't think anyone would or could do something like that.


----------



## Evilo

Oh that's true.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Curtinho said:


> I wasn't comparing him to Messi (I was asking), but I only see highlights of Dembele. It's more that everyone is always looking for that next big thing so whenever a really young player is stepping up and really putting on a show those kind of comparisons are inevitable.




Calling someone the next Messi just seems a catch-all way of saying x player is a great prospect. 

Ã–degaard to me is still the young player with the highest potential of those I've watched.



Live in the Now said:


> He reminds me of C. Ronaldo. The only negative critique I'd have is that sometimes he holds onto the ball too long, which is just like Ronaldo. Given his physical traits it's surprising he has such good technique, usually players as fast as him are a little one footed. Not him though.




I don't know if it's just the league where he plays but he seems to be a lot more efficient and effective with his dribbles that Cristiano, even if he has similar shooting/finishing and physical ability. I don't think either a younger nor an older Cristiano was as good at beating opponents in the center of the field with just his first touch or two. He's an exciting player.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Cheers. Safe to say Dembele is a good bet for the Golden Boy this year, Dele Alli is the only real competition I can think of (I am, of course, inviting people to mention names to prove me wrong).
> 
> Curiously enough, just discovered that Hazard never won the Golden Boy award? I refuse to accept that.




Coman, Tah, Donnarumma, Sanches, Dahoud


----------



## Jeffrey

To me it's between Dahoud, Alli and Dembele.

I would give it to Dembele at this moment with Alli close 2nd.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Jeffrey said:


> To me it's between Dahoud, Alli and Dembele.
> 
> I would give it to Dembele at this moment with Alli close 2nd.




Dahoud is better than Alli imo.


----------



## cgf

I have a tough time deciding whether Dahoud or Tah has been the most impressive BuLi youngster this year. Dahoud is so elegant that I think he should start for our NT next to Ilkay this summer; but Tah has been a beast for Leverkusen. When he's more experienced, Boateng and Hummels will have a tough time staying in our starting lineup...assuming we still play with a back 4 & not a back 3.

Dembele's incredible goal-record should guarantee him the top young player award, but I'd put one of these two second this year; with Alli/Kimmich/Weigl after that.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> I have a tough time deciding whether Dahoud or Tah has been the most impressive BuLi youngster this year. Dahoud is so elegant that I think he should start for our NT next to Ilkay this summer; but Tah has been a beast for Leverkusen. When he's more experienced, Boateng and Hummels will have a tough time staying in our starting lineup...assuming we still play with a back 4 & not a back 3.
> 
> Dembele's incredible goal-record should guarantee him the top young player award, but I'd put one of these two second this year; with Alli/Kimmich/Weigl after that.




I think Weigl has had the strongest campaign of any eligible Bundesliga player from start to finish, but for some inexplicable reason he wasn't nominated. Kimmich imo is the most talented of those Bundesliga players but he also wasn't nominated this year (lack of playing time at Bayern and wasn't in the first tier before that), and won't be eligible for 2016.


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> I think Weigl has had the strongest campaign of any eligible Bundesliga player from start to finish, but for some inexplicable reason he wasn't nominated. Kimmich imo is the most talented of those Bundesliga players but he also wasn't nominated this year (lack of playing time at Bayern and wasn't in the first tier before that), and won't be eligible for 2016.




Weigl's been excellent, but he hasn't been Dahoud.


----------



## bluesfan94

Live in the Now said:


> Brehme too, took World Cup penalties with both feet. That sounds crazy to me especially now. I don't think anyone would or could do something like that.




As a goalie, this would literally drive me insane.


----------



## Power Man

Evilo said:


> He can't say if he's right or left footed actually
> I've rarely seen perfectly ambidextrous players.




The word ambidextrous is used for hands only


----------



## jniklast

cgf said:


> Weigl's been excellent, but he hasn't been Dahoud.




Weigl's role is much less spectacular, so he's not as exciting as Dahoud, but overall I think he's been a bit more consistent. But both are excellent players. Great future for the German midfield.


----------



## Evilo

Really?

You made me search :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambidexterity#Football


----------



## Juni

Lewis Baker at Vitesse on loan from Chelsea is perfect off both feet too. A couple of dead-ball examples.


----------



## cgf

jniklast said:


> Weigl's role is much less spectacular, so he's not as exciting as Dahoud, but overall I think he's been a bit more consistent. But both are excellent players. Great future for the German midfield.




Not that Weigl hasn't been a rock, but I dunno if I buy that he's been any more consistent than Dahoud...at least since the coaching change and Dahoud has become a regular. Then you add the greater responsibilities & difficulties of Dahoud's role; and he's more spectacular in my book.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> Not that Weigl hasn't been a rock, but I dunno if I buy that he's been any more consistent than Dahoud...at least since the coaching change and Dahoud has become a regular. Then you add the greater responsibilities & difficulties of Dahoud's role; and he's more spectacular in my book.




Dahoud still has the occasional off game. Weigl really doesn't. I don't know about the greater responsibilities part. Weigl has also really stepped up in the past month in GÃ¼ndogan's absence and showed that he isn't just a balancing, possession-securing, and structuring type of player, but that he can also play penetrating passes through the lines that lead to direct chances, and make more adventurous dribbles successfully.


----------



## Evilo

Dembele once again finalist for player of the month. This time his opponents are Ben Arfa and Mandanda.
He's favourite IMO. Though usually those are popularity contests so Mandanda will have a good chance at it.


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> Dahoud still has the occasional off game. Weigl really doesn't. I don't know about the greater responsibilities part. Weigl has also really stepped up in the past month in GÃ¼ndogan's absence and showed that he isn't just a balancing, possession-securing, and structuring type of player, but that he can also play penetrating passes through the lines that lead to direct chances, and make more adventurous dribbles successfully.




Depends what you mean by off game. Everyone has games where they aren't brilliant, Weigl included, but Dahoud is at least nice-n-tidy in every match...even those where he isn't magical.

While I'll certainly agree with you about Weigl showing more capacity to play incisive passes than anyone expected from him last summer, even those of us who were hyping his acquisition; it's still not as much as Dahoud needs to do.

Granted, I feel like Dahoud has heavier responsibilities than Xhaka at this point, so if you fall on the other side of that discussion I can see why you'd be place more weight on the duties Weigl carries out.


----------



## Jeffrey

Evilo said:


> Dembele once again finalist for player of the month. This time his opponents are Ben Arfa and Mandanda.
> He's favourite IMO. Though usually those are popularity contests so Mandanda will have a good chance at it.



Nobody will dare voting against him. In his game against OM the OM fans cheered Ousmane as he was substituted.
The OM fans are not as bad as you paint them.


----------



## Evilo

We'll see.


----------



## Jeffrey

Evilo said:


> We'll see.




BTW can you give us a breakdown on Jean-Kevin Augustin?
Is he highly rated?


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> Depends what you mean by off game. Everyone has games where they aren't brilliant, Weigl included, but Dahoud is at least nice-n-tidy in every match...even those where he isn't magical.
> 
> While I'll certainly agree with you about Weigl showing more capacity to play incisive passes than anyone expected from him last summer, even those of us who were hyping his acquisition; it's still not as much as Dahoud needs to do.
> 
> Granted, I feel like Dahoud has heavier responsibilities than Xhaka at this point, so if you fall on the other side of that discussion I can see why you'd be place more weight on the duties Weigl carries out.




That depends on the division of roles in each team. I guess you have to balance the relative responsibilities of the player within the team with how well and consistently he carries out those responsibilities. I think Gladbach has depended more on Kramer and Dahoud than Xhaka the past couple of years. I would say GÃ¼ndogan has a more decisive role in Dortmund's play, but Weigl seems to fulfill his responsibilities more consistently. Maybe that just seems to be the case to me because in a way Weigl's job is to be consistent and not take risks that he can't reliably succeed in. I'd say the same thing about Busquets: he's one of the most consistent great players around, and he has similar responsibilities as Weigl.

Regardless, it seems that even when the rest of the team isn't working well, Weigl tends to do his job structuring and securing possession at an extremely high level: the match against Liverpool for example. I can only think of a few matches this season where he was just ok, and he has only gotten better as the season has gone on.


----------



## Evilo

Jeffrey said:


> BTW can you give us a breakdown on Jean-Kevin Augustin?
> Is he highly rated?



Mildly.
He's a nice youngster who can provide some goals but, IMO, he's not PSG quality. Nor will he ever be.
Blanc likes, him that seems clear. But he's not on Ongenda's level. I think Blanc uses him because he doesn't have any other striker on the roster outside Ibra and Cavani.


----------



## Power Man

Mah boy Zakaria scored 2 goals in Atletico Madrid's last 2 games (Youth Division de Honor).

Atletico has won La Liga


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> That depends on the division of roles in each team. I guess you have to balance the relative responsibilities of the player within the team with how well and consistently he carries out those responsibilities. I think Gladbach has depended more on Kramer and Dahoud than Xhaka the past couple of years. I would say GÃ¼ndogan has a more decisive role in Dortmund's play, but Weigl seems to fulfill his responsibilities more consistently. *Maybe that just seems to be the case to me because in a way Weigl's job is to be consistent and not take risks that he can't reliably succeed in.* I'd say the same thing about Busquets: he's one of the most consistent great players around, and he has similar responsibilities as Weigl.
> 
> Regardless, it seems that even when the rest of the team isn't working well, Weigl tends to do his job structuring and securing possession at an extremely high level: the match against Liverpool for example. I can only think of a few matches this season where he was just ok, and he has only gotten better as the season has gone on.




I think that's likely a big part of it. Dahoud's job is to push through the midfield and feed the forwards, so even when he's not at his best he needs to be forcing things; whereas if Weigl's incisive passes aren't on point or materializing in time, then just playing careful horizontal balls is fine he doesn't need to force anything.


----------



## Theon

He's no Ashley Young.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Rashford scored again. Where did this guy come from? Was he that good at youth level for Man United? I hadn't heard of him until he debuted for United, and I'm someone who follows prospects.


----------



## Evilo

Jeffrey said:


> Nobody will dare voting against him. In his game against OM the OM fans cheered Ousmane as he was substituted.
> The OM fans are not as bad as you paint them.



Dembele wins player of the month.
He had 42% of the votes.

Mandanda had 39% 
Apparently, they dared.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Pulisic got his first goal today. He's done a good job in the minutes he's gotten. He's really skilled and is not out of place playing for Dortmund at age 17. He still makes some mistakes in the final third that a more experienced player probably wouldn't make, but I think if you give it another few years he's going to be really good. His overall ability is outstanding for a player of any age.


----------



## Evilo

Uefa Youth league final is tonight : PSG-Chelsea.


----------



## ProPAIN

Chelsea retained the title with a 2-1 win. Couldn't watch the match, hopefully someone who did can give some insight.





Now the problem is how will they retain it since there is no automatic qualification for the winner as of now. And Chelsea have to win their domestic league which isn't a sure thing. "Odds are against them" says Juni.

Pretty much the same team will play Man City for the FA Youth Cup too.

The club's youth and women's teams are doing better than the senior team


----------



## Ace Rothstein

delete


----------



## Evilo

Lucky win for Chelsea from what I could gather. PSG missed a penalty and missed a lot of chances late.
Not that it takes away anything from a two time winner. This PSG team was spectacular though.


----------



## Juni

Wouldn't say lucky (mind, I'm heavily biased) but PSG were the better side in the second half, had possession and territory yet for their 18 shots they only had as many on target as Chelsea. Collins, penalty aside, didn't have a hard save to make and Chelsea were great defensively, limiting the chances PSG could have inside and only momentarily slipping up for Meite's goal.

Nkunku's the best player in this PSG team, he's an incredible prospect. Meite is a monster with a rocket of a left foot, Ikone is something else, just a nightmare prospect of pace and skill that even he doesn't know how to use properly. Edouard was disappointing all weekend but I know he's better than that, Augustin was very poor for a player who has his experience, and both CBs Eboa Eboa and Doucure leave something to be desired.

Also really liked Georgen the RB, he's got something about him.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Juni, how did Kyle Scott play? More importantly though, how does he figure at Chelsea? I see he signed a new contract recently. Do you think he'll go out on loan next season? Will he stay with the U-21's another season or do you think he'll move on to another club soon?


----------



## Evilo

Yes Georgen is a nice player. Nkunku and Edouard are top prospects.
I share your view on Augustin. I've always felt Blanc overrated him.


----------



## Juni

Have just been reading that Juventus want to steal Ikone like they did with Coman. Can see why, the kid's ridiculous.



> Juni, how did Kyle Scott play? More importantly though, how does he figure at Chelsea? I see he signed a new contract recently. Do you think he'll go out on loan next season? Will he stay with the U-21's another season or do you think he'll move on to another club soon?




Didn't have his best game, was better on Friday, but mitigating circumstances for both because he's been unwell and it showed, he didn't have the legs to influence things as he can do. He's thought of very highly by the academy staff and has been entrusted with big responsibilities in big matches because he's capable of holding it down. At his very best he dictates the play; everything goes through him, he controls things and makes things happen.

I wouldn't expect a loan next season if only because some of those ahead of him in the U21 midfield will go out instead, leaving him to be the main man at that level for half a season at least. He needs that too, he's not had many starts at that level yet.


----------



## Ivan13

Too bad Dinamo's kids were robbed of their clear cut victory against Anderlecht due to a moronic error by the coaches.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Ivan13 said:


> Too bad Dinamo's kids were robbed of their clear cut victory against Anderlecht due to a moronic error by the coaches.




Do you think Brekalo is going to move to a big club soon? From what I've read, he's the next star out of Croatia. I believe he also scored in the game you are talking about.


----------



## Ivan13

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Do you think Brekalo is going to move to a big club soon? From what I've read, he's the next star out of Croatia. I believe he also scored in the game you are talking about.




Hopefully not. But there was some rift between him and Mamić, he wants to play more for the senior team, as he should. Since the rift he played in some games and looked like a complete difference maker out there. Nice pace, great shot, etc. He should become a great one, and is the type Croatia has been missing.

Anyway Dinamo has more talented players on the team which will feature on top Euro clubs in the near future:

1. Šemper - looks to be a top end keep in the making
2. Pjaca - best player on the team, should be on the Euro team
3. Rog
4. Brekalo
5. Čorić - he's absolutely electric, kind of similar to Halilović
6. Olmo

It's kind of crazy how many good players came through Dinamo in the last 10 years: Modrić, Mandžo, Lovren, Ćorluka, Vrsaljko, Badelj, Brozović, Halilović, Kovačić, Eduardo etc.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Pulisic is the youngest player to score 2 goals in the Bundesliga.


----------



## cgf

Julian Brandt continues to drag Bayer towards the auto-qualification spot...5th straight game with a goal for the kid and he picked up an assist as well, while helping turn a 0-2 deficit against Schalke into a 3-2 win. The olympic team should have a lot of fun players to watch if they don't f*** up the selection.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> Julian Brandt continues to drag Bayer towards the auto-qualification spot...5th straight game with a goal for the kid and he picked up an assist as well, while helping turn a 0-2 deficit against Schalke into a 3-2 win.* The olympic team should have a lot of fun players to watch if they don't f*** up the selection.*




That tournament should actually be really exciting to watch unlike the last one where I don't think I watched one game. Brazil is sending Neymar and other stars, German team should be stacked and Argentina are always fun to watch and should just crush the opposition.


----------



## cgf

I'm so anxious about what team we end up sending. There isn't much precedent to go on for what the NT will do. But there's so much talent that should be eligible for this tourney, so at this point I'm letting myself be excited.

http://www.transfermarkt.de/spieler...alle&altersklasse=u23&land_id=40&yt0=Anzeigen


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> I'm so anxious about what team we end up sending. There isn't much precedent to go on for what the NT will do. But there's so much talent that should be eligible for this tourney, so at this point I'm letting myself be excited.
> 
> http://www.transfermarkt.de/spieler...alle&altersklasse=u23&land_id=40&yt0=Anzeigen




Personally I'm hoping about a third of the players on the first page of that list make the senior team or at least get a fair shot.


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> Personally I'm hoping about a third of the players on the first page of that list make the senior team or at least get a fair shot.




Would be nice. 

But even without kids like Dahoud, Weigl, Kimmich, Tah, Can, who I want on the senior team, there's some interesting talents that we could send that would be fun to watch in this tourney. Not counting the kids I'd pick we could still send: Volland, Werner, Brandt/Sane, Arnold, Meyer, Oztunali, LeGo, Amiri, Stendera, Gerhardt, Geis, Sule, Kempf, Rudiger, Ginter, Korb, Bauer, Horn, Karius.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> Would be nice.
> 
> But even without the guys I want on the senior team, there's some interesting talents that we could send that would be fun to watch in this tourney. Not counting kids like Dahoud, Weigl, Kimmich, Tah, who I'd pick we could still send: Volland, Werner, Brandt/Sane, Arnold, Meyer, Oztunali, LeGo, Amiri, Stendera, Gerhardt, Geis, Sule, Kempf, Rudiger, Ginter, Korb, Bauer, Horn, Karius.




Looking at that Transfermarkt list reminded me of Koray GÃ¼nter. Dortmund should have never sold him. 

No doubt they could still make a killer group, and more of those players will be left off LÃ¶w's roster than most of us would like. You don't think Volland will make the senior team?


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> Looking at that Transfermarkt list reminded me of Koray GÃ¼nter. Dortmund should have never sold him.
> 
> No doubt they could still make a killer group, and more of those players will be left off LÃ¶w's roster than most of us would like. You don't think Volland will make the senior team?




I don't know, and actually think it's likely to come down to Volland/Sane/Brandt for the last attacking spot...and Brandt's incredible form could well give him a leg up in that battle...but I'd take:
( Front Three - 6 )
Mueller
Kruse
Reus
Draxler
Ozil
Gotze

( Midfield - 7 )
Gundogan
Dahoud
Can
Kramer-vs-Khedira
Kroos
Weigl
Kimmich

( Back Four - 7 )
Weiser
Schmelzer
Gerhardt
Boateng
Hummels
Tah
Mustafi-vs-S.Bender

( Goalkeepers - 3 )
Neuer
MAtS
Leno

So I guess I need to remove Gerhardt from my earlier list.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> I don't know, and actually think it's likely to come down to Volland/Sane/Brandt for the last attacking spot...and Brandt's incredible form could well give him a leg up in that battle...but I'd take:
> ( Front Three - 6 )
> Mueller
> Kruse
> Reus
> Draxler
> Ozil
> Gotze
> 
> ( Midfield - 7 )
> Gundogan
> Dahoud
> Can
> Kramer-vs-Khedira
> Kroos
> Weigl
> Kimmich
> 
> ( Back Four - 7 )
> Weiser
> Schmelzer
> Gerhardt
> Boateng
> Hummels
> Tah
> Mustafi-vs-S.Bender
> 
> ( Goalkeepers - 3 )
> Neuer
> MAtS
> Leno
> 
> So I guess I need to remove Gerhardt from my earlier list.




With Volland, I was thinking what Jogi would do, not what I would do. Kruse for instance appears to be in Jogi's dog house. Why do you think Can should go to the Euros and not the Olympics?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Players born in 1992 aren't eligible for the Olympics, so some of those players on that list like Goetze, Volland, MAtS, Knoche are too old to play in the Olympics, unless they occupy one of the three overage spots.


----------



## Evilo

Odsonne Edouard finally signed his first pro contract. Aged 17, he had 3 goals 3 assists in 8 UEFA youth league games.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Players born in 1992 aren't eligible for the Olympics, so some of those players on that list like Goetze, Volland, MAtS, Knoche are too old to play in the Olympics, unless they occupy one of the three overage spots.




Gotcha, so no Volland for the Olympics; although if he isn't picked for the Euros, I'd give him one of the overage spots.



Deficient Mode said:


> With Volland, I was thinking what Jogi would do, not what I would do. Kruse for instance appears to be in Jogi's dog house. Why do you think Can should go to the Euros and not the Olympics?




No reason other than trying to not pick players for both just to see what a worst case scenario type team would look like. And you're right Kruse won't be going to the Euros and one of Volland/Brandt/Sane will surely take his place.


----------



## Theon

Ever since Nicky Butt took charge, he has been signing a lot of young talent for the United academy. 

So far there has been confirmed deals for: Nishan Burkart, Tahith Chong, Matthew Olosunde and Lee O'Connor.

Last year we signed a Belgian named Indy Boonen and he along with Angel Gomes are supposed to be the two standout talents from the academy. Should be hearing more about them next season if they play for the U21s.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Matt Olosunde is a good player, not the most exciting, but I think he'll be a good pro. Big full-back who can also play CB, incredible pace, good defensively, not the most technical but he provides good defense and pace going forward, he's a very Spurs type of full-back.


----------



## Theon

I've seen him play once for the U18s and he looks to be a really lanky kid with good offensive instincts. If he fills up, I can see him have a good career as a CB.


----------



## Evilo

DembÃ©lÃ© has hit a bit of a wall recently. 2/3 defensemen on his back and he can't seem to find the solution. Of course, his teammates can't provide much in terms of passing possibilities.


----------



## Live in the Now

Hasn't Ntep been injured? Seems like the defenders would have less to focus on without Ntep there and could swarm Dembele that way.


----------



## Jeffrey

Evilo said:


> DembÃ©lÃ© has hit a bit of a wall recently. 2/3 defensemen on his back and he can't seem to find the solution. Of course, his teammates can't provide much in terms of passing possibilities.




It's good for his progress. IMO he should stay one more year at Rennes before making the switch to another team but apparently it seems unlikely.


----------



## Evilo

Live in the Now said:


> Hasn't Ntep been injured? Seems like the defenders would have less to focus on without Ntep there and could swarm Dembele that way.




Yes but Ntep has been injured for a long time, including the "unstoppable DembÃ©lÃ© time".

But yeah is Ntep was on the left side of Rennes' attack DembÃ©lÃ© would have much more space.


----------



## phv

Evilo said:


> Yes but Ntep has been injured for a long time, including the "unstoppable DembÃ©lÃ© time".
> 
> But yeah is Ntep was on the left side of Rennes' attack DembÃ©lÃ© would have much more space.




Isn't Jeremie Boga helping him ? He is/was one of Chelsea's best young prospects.


----------



## Evilo

He's been decent, showed some flashed, but no, he's not really a viable option right now.
Which says a lot when you compare DembÃ©lÃ© and Boga on the same team in the same league. Boga's also a year older. And they're light years apart right now.


----------



## cgf

Julian Brandt: 6th straight game with a goal; as his team leads 2-1 at the half in the battle between #3 & #4 in the BuLi. Didn't see the first half myself, but Brandt's getting a lot of love for his play, again. 

Does Jogi dare to not take him to the EM?

E: His latest:


----------



## cgf

19yo Hannover prospect and member of various youth NTs, Niklas Feierabend, died in a car crash last night. RIP


----------



## cgf

Dadashov, Schreck, Akkaynak, and the Itters are looking good for the u17s thus far...Akkaynak absence was really felt in the first match.

E: Bosnia down to 10 men right after the 2nd half re-start.

E2: 3-1 final. Dadashov continued to move & linking well, but his finishing was very disappointing. Otto was crucial as a joker. Beste played a pretty early-cross in for the 2-1. The CBs are still a cause for concern; as Bartels had to make some strong plays to bail them out. The midfield of Akkaynak, Schreck, Maier, and Havertz clicked well and will be what drives this side to any success they achieve. Very smooth & clever for children.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Dadashov, Schreck, Akkaynak, and the Itters are looking good for the u17s thus far...and Aykannak's absence was really felt in the first match.
> 
> E: Bosnia down to 10 men right after the 2nd half re-start.
> 
> E2: 3-1 final. Dadashov continued to move & linking well, but his finishing was very disappointing. Otto was crucial as a joker. Beste played a pretty early cross in for the 2-1. The CBs are still a cause for concern; as Bartels had to make some strong plays to bail them out. The midfield of Akkaynak, Schreck, Maier, and Havertz clicked well and will be what drives this side to any success they achieve. Very smooth & clever for children.




There's an Akkaynak and an Aykannak on the team?

Thats almost as confusing as if a team had two Dembele's at the same time.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> There's an Akkaynak and an Aykannak on the team?
> 
> Thats almost as confusing as if a team had two Dembele's at the same time.




No, there's just one Akkaynak. That was just the results of a long night making spelling impossible for me. 

...though the team is starting a CB duo of Florian Baak and Tom Baack...

EDIT: 
jesus christ does Sam Schreck look like an absolute baby in his picture on transfermarkt...


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> No, there's just one Akkaynak. That was just the results of a long night making spelling impossible for me.
> 
> ...though the team is starting a CB duo of Florian Baak and Tom Baack...
> 
> EDIT:
> jesus christ does Sam Schreck look like an absolute baby in his picture on transfermarkt...




So Sam Schreck isn't green?


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> So Sam Schreck isn't green?




Well it looks like he's only 11, so maybe that'll come with age?...


----------



## Deficient Mode

This site has video highlights and short analyses (in Spanish) of individual players from the U17 tournament that some people might find interesting.


----------



## XO

Sweden beat France and won their group

Some pretty decent results in the recent years for Swedish youth teams. Promising future.


----------



## Evilo

France has a weak class, but still dominated Sweden completely. Total robbery. more than 60% possession and 23 shots to 6 advantage.
Sweden's goalie seems pretty good though.


----------



## ecemleafs

Jack Aitchison scored on his debut to become Celtic's youngest ever goal scorer today. 16 years old.


----------



## cgf

Dennis Geiger is continuing to shine for hoppenheim in the A-Jugend playoffs. The youngster is a silky smooth maestro in midfield.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I have some time to kill, so it might be time for an update on my 2015 version of USA prospects to watch. Here's what I got. Ranking guys so far apart in age and development isn't easy, but here's my best try.

Here was my 2015 version: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=100037677&postcount=636

I'll keep it to players born from 1993-2000 because 1993 is about as old as it gets for a prospect and I haven't watched enough of the players younger than 2000. Top 50 USA prospects with short blurbs on each. 

1. John Brooks (Hertha Berlin-1993): Big center-back with a lot of talent, had a very good Bundesliga season. Potential WC center-back.
2. Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund-1998): Exciting attacking midfielder who can dribble, shoot, pass. Broke through this season at Borussia Dortmund.
3. DeAndre Yedlin (Sunderland via Tottenham-1993): Speedy full-back who improved his defense a lot this season on loan this season at Sunderland.
4. Matt Miazga (Chelsea-1995): Tall and athletic center-back with very good 1v1 defensive skills. Had a tough adjustment early on at Chelsesa.
5. Ethan Horvath (Molde-1995): Big goalie who impressed in the Europa League this season and recently made the preliminary Copa America roster.
5. Jordan Morris (Seattle Sounders-1994): Fast goal scoring striker has started his professional career well.
6. Cameron Carter-Vickers (Tottenham-1997): No nonsense center-back. Very close to a debut with Spurs, but has been injured recently.
7. Emerson Hyndman (Fulham-1996): Technical central midfielder. Could be on the move this summer to a bigger club.
8. Gedion Zelalem (Rangers via Arsenal-1997): Another very good technical central mid. There were mixed reviews about his loan in Scotland.
9. Mukwelle Akale (Villarreal U-19's-1997): Electrifying attacking midfielder who is very fast, a very good dribbler, and can also score and assist goals
10. Kellyn Acosta (FC Dallas-1995): Versatile player who can play midfield or defense, but shines as a b2b mid or holding mid.
11. Erik Palmer-Brown (FC Porto reserves via Sporting Kansas City-1997): Talented center back on loan at Porto with option to buy, which they'll exercise after a good start.
12. Josh Perez (Fiorentina reserves-1998): Talented left-footed attacking midfielder, started out well at Fiorentina. 
13. Haji Wright (Schalke U-19-1998): Big striker with speed and goal scoring ability, great start so far at Schalke.
14. Paul Arriola (Tijuana-1995): Direct winger who has done well at club level, called up to US National Team for the first time today
15. Tommy Redding (Orlando City-1997): One of the youngest starters in MLS, he's a ball playing CB who reads the game very well
16. Nick Taitague (Carolina Railhawks-1999): I've heard him compared to Pulisic, but with less hype. Very complete young attacking midfielder.
17. Tim Parker (Vancouver Whitecaps-1993): Polished central defender who is very close to his first National Team cap
18. Rubio Rubin (FC Utrecht-1996): Versatile attacker who works very hard and has a lot of skill, would probably be higher on this list if not for injuries.
19. Wil Trapp (Columbus Crew-1993): Technically savvy holding midfielder who reads the game well and has been capped for the National Team.
20. Brooks Lennon (Liverpool reserves-1997): Versatile attacker with speed, dribbling, passing and goal scoring ability.
21. Khiry Shelton (New York City FC-1993): Tall and athletic versatile attacker who shines physically but could use work technically
22. Justen Glad (Real Salt Lake-1997): The youngest regular starter in MLS, he is a well rounded center-back who has impressed so far this season
23. Matt Olosunde (Manchester United reserves-1998): Speedy RB who can also play CB. Olosunde also excels defensively.
24. Andrew Carleton (US U-17 National Team-2000): Supremely talented do it all attacking midfielder. Could be in the top 10 of this list in the next 12-24 months.
25. Kyle Scott (Chelsea reserves-1997): Technically savvy central midfielder who recently handed in a transfer request at Chelsea.
26. Tyler Adams (New York Red Bulls-1999): An athletic defensive midfielder, also the youngest player to appear in MLS this season.
27. Keegan Rosenberry (Philadelphia Union-1993): Well-rounded rookie RB who has impressed early on in his pro career
28. Jonathan Campbell (Chicago Fire-1993): A rookie center-back who has done very well for a bad team
29. Luca De La Torre (Fulham reserves-1998): Versatile midfielder who can play b2b mid, CAM or as a winger, he's an excellent dribbler.
30. George Acosta (US U-17 National Team-2000): Recently won top scorer at a big international tournament in France, he's a CAM with good passing, dribbling and goal scoring
31. Zack Steffen (SC Freiburg reserves-1995): Very athletic keeper who had an excellent U-20 World Cup, but has struggled with injuries this season
32. Matt Polster (Chicago Fire-1993): Hard working and versatile player who can play just about anywhere in the back 6, struggles technically
33. Marc Pelosi (San Jose Earthquakes-1994): Injuries have really hurt his career, former Liverpool youth, versatile, technical and hardworking if he stays on the field
34. Julian Green (Bayern Munich reserves-1995): Winger who's really fallen a lot in recent years, but has talent, so he could turn it around
35. Amando Moreno (Tijuana-1995): Energetic and versatile attacker who is finally starting to break out at Xolos, received his first NT call up today.
36. Joel Sonora (Stuttgart reserves-1996): Very skilled attacking midfielder who can pass, dribble and score goals.
37. Blaine Ferri (US U-17 National Team-2000): Really smart CM/CAM who sees the game a step ahead of others
38. Brandon Vincent (Chicago Fire-1994): Athletic left-back who defends well and gets forward, but has struggled in his rookie pro season
39. Junior Flores (Borussia Dortmund reserves-1996): Former highly rated attacking midfielder. Has talent, so he could turn it around. 
40. Luis Gil (Queretaro-1993): CM/CAM who is incredible in a US shirt, but not so good at the club level. Good technical skill, sees the field well, can score goals.
41. Gboly Ariyibi (Chesterfield-1995): Direct winger with a lot of speed. Has upped his stock a lot in the last six months.
42. Jose Villarreal (LA Galaxy-1994): Good finisher who just can not stay healthy, and struggles for playing time at club level behind bigger names
43. Kyle Gruno (Leicester U-18's-1999): Tall central-defender who could be a riser on this list in the next year.
44. JT Marcinkowski (Georgetown University-1997): Very talented goalkeeper who has excelled for years at every level, but isn't the tallest.
45. Alex Zendejas (FC Dallas-1998): Technical, hard working and versatile CM. Would probably be higher, if not for injuries.
46. Danny Barbir (West Brom reserves-1998): Big center-back who is athletic and passes the ball well, but is very inconsistent defensively.
47. Sebastian Saucedo (Veracruz via Real Salt Lake-1997): Fun to watch attacking midfielder who can score some incredible goals, very quick!
48. Desevio Payne (FC Groningen-1995): Athletic full-back who is good going forward, but has really struggled with injuries and form this season.
49. Jeremy Ebobisse (Unattached-1997): Formerly of Duke University, he's a goal scoring center forward with a lot of skill, and good size and speed.
50. Chris Goslin (US U-17 National Team-2000): Athletic b2b or holding midfielder who passes well, scores goals, and is a dead ball specialist


----------



## Basement Cat

excellent list man...it was very fun reading it.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Thanks!

We are getting good at some of these younger levels. It seems like every year goes by, and the players are better and better.


----------



## Evilo

Former 'future Vieira" Gueida Fofana, a very promising CM from Le Havre academy (later signed by Lyon) has unfortunately called it a career after being out for two years with an ankle injury. 

EDIT : He was captain of the U19 Euro champs in 2011.


----------



## Shrimper

England won the Toulon tournament!


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

http://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2016/06/06/57556ede46163fc3498b45ba.html

Thought this was interesting. One of my favourite prospects in recent years, I had such high hopes for him.


----------



## Shrimper

I might get round to doing an England prospect list at some point


----------



## Shrimper

Going to add a list of players to this post as I go on, tempted to do a blog/write-up on it to make it easier but feel free to add players to this list. Currently, the list isn't in order of their potential or their season or anything like that. Just the players I'm thinking of. I'm putting in a rule that they have to be 23 and younger to be included. After 23 I'll remove them from any future lists as some players take longer to develop so making it 23 is fair I think. 

Dele Alli, Mandela Egbo, Sulley Kaikai, Jake Gray, Matt Targett, Jordan Pickford, Angus Gunn, Dominic Iorfa, Calum Chambers, Nathaniel Chalobah, James-Ward Prowse, Lewis Baker, Jack Grealish, Cauley Woodrow, Brendan Galloway, Joe Gomez, John Stones, Luke Shaw, Eric Dier, Will Hughes, Demarai Gray, Chuba Akpom, Raheem Sterling, Dominic Solanke, Jordan Ibe and Marcus Rashford. 

Those for starters. I could probably add players in the U20 and U18 too if I wanted but U18's are a lot harder to predict and plot.


----------



## Evilo

So you're doing a country of origin list, not a league list?


----------



## YNWA14

Shrimper said:


> Going to add a list of players to this post as I go on, tempted to do a blog/write-up on it to make it easier but feel free to add players to this list. Currently, the list isn't in order of their potential or their season or anything like that. Just the players I'm thinking of. I'm putting in a rule that they have to be 23 and younger to be included. After 23 I'll remove them from any future lists as some players take longer to develop so making it 23 is fair I think.
> 
> Dele Alli, Mandela Egbo, Sulley Kaikai, Jake Gray, Matt Targett, Jordan Pickford, Angus Gunn, Dominic Iorfa, Calum Chambers, Nathaniel Chalobah, James-Ward Prowse, Lewis Baker, Jack Grealish, Cauley Woodrow, Brendan Galloway, Joe Gomez, John Stones, Luke Shaw, Eric Dier, Will Hughes, Demarai Gray, Chuba Akpom, Raheem Sterling, Dominic Solanke, Jordan Ibe and Marcus Rashford.
> 
> Those for starters. I could probably add players in the U20 and U18 too if I wanted but U18's are a lot harder to predict and plot.




I think Ojo has for sure passed a few of the names on here; Ibe included. Not saying you don't have him on a list or anything just the first one that stood out to me.


----------



## ProPAIN

Surely Loftus-Cheek has to be up there. Put in some good performances for the first-team and was voted best player at the Toulon Tournament. Tammy Abraham and Jake Clarke-Salter are ready for the next step too.

Fikayo Tomori, Kasey Palmer, Trevoh Chalobah and Jay Dasilva are highly rated too.


----------



## Savant

Shrimper said:


> Going to add a list of players to this post as I go on, tempted to do a blog/write-up on it to make it easier but feel free to add players to this list. Currently, the list isn't in order of their potential or their season or anything like that. Just the players I'm thinking of. I'm putting in a rule that they have to be 23 and younger to be included. After 23 I'll remove them from any future lists as some players take longer to develop so making it 23 is fair I think.
> 
> Dele Alli, Mandela Egbo, Sulley Kaikai, Jake Gray, Matt Targett, Jordan Pickford, Angus Gunn, Dominic Iorfa, Calum Chambers, Nathaniel Chalobah, James-Ward Prowse, Lewis Baker, Jack Grealish, Cauley Woodrow, Brendan Galloway, Joe Gomez, John Stones, Luke Shaw, Eric Dier, Will Hughes, Demarai Gray, Chuba Akpom, Raheem Sterling, Dominic Solanke, Jordan Ibe and Marcus Rashford.
> 
> Those for starters. I could probably add players in the U20 and U18 too if I wanted but U18's are a lot harder to predict and plot.




If you are throwing Wales in there, Ben Woodburn may be worth a look.


----------



## Shrimper

Evilo said:


> So you're doing a country of origin list, not a league list?




Not sure, how have others on here done it?


----------



## Evilo

Well we've done league list, so disregarding players' countries, but rather focusing on the best prospects of each league.
However, there's nothing set in stone. You can do it any way you want.

The thinking was that it's easier to comment on a league you see more regularly than others.
For instance, a young frenchman playing in the EPL would be better commented by you than by me.
Of course, few young english players play abroad.


----------



## Shrimper

Think I might start with English players as others have done that in the same vein I believe . Need to get a list of players first so will add those that others have suggested, any more that people can think of? One player I'm going to add is Taylor Moore from RC Lens. 

I'm thinking that for teams in lower leagues only those that are stand-out players will be added but obviously those at places like Arsenal a larger number would be included. I think an age limit, if not mentioned already, is worth it too. 23 and under. Over that I'll remove them.


----------



## cgf

Speaking of prospects; BMG's Ba-Muaka Simakala got the start next to Raffael in BMG's first friendly. Scoring a goal when he & Dahoud hooked up yet again late in the first half.

The swiss Djibril Sow also started in this match, playing off the wing and leaving a positive impression. 

In the second half the slovakian starlet, Lazlo Benes got to show off his stuff by setting up one of Hazard's second half goals. 

The younger Hazard worked his way into the lineup over the back-half of the season and seems poised for a big campaign alongside Raffael and Stindl in the BMG attack.


----------



## Shrimper

Dele Alli, Mandela Egbo, Sulley Kaikai, Jake Gray, Matt Targett, Jordan Pickford, Angus Gunn, Dominic Iorfa, Calum Chambers, Nathaniel Chalobah, James-Ward Prowse, Lewis Baker, Jack Grealish, Cauley Woodrow, Brendan Galloway, Joe Gomez, John Stones, Luke Shaw, Eric Dier, Will Hughes, Demarai Gray, Chuba Akpom, Raheem Sterling, Dominic Solanke, Jordan Ibe, Marcus Rashford, Rueben-Loftus Cheek, Tammy Abraham, Jake Clarke-Salter, Fikayo Tomori, Kasey Palmer, Trevor Chalobah, Jay DaSilva, Taylor Moore, Adam Armstrong, Daniel Crowley, Lewis Cook, Patrick Roberts and Charles Vernam.

Going to put this together tomorrow and then go from there. Any further player suggestions welcome. Still undecided on whether to do it on English and/or others.


----------



## Juni

How did Vernam get on your list? I ask because he and Kaikai are the only ones there who don't have some form of international youth representation but Kaikai has at least done something in the English professional game, whereas not many people know of Vernam.

No criticism either because I think he's pretty good, certainly an interesting talent who's flown well under the radar.


----------



## Savant

Shrimper said:


> Dele Alli, Mandela Egbo, Sulley Kaikai, Jake Gray, Matt Targett, Jordan Pickford, Angus Gunn, Dominic Iorfa, Calum Chambers, Nathaniel Chalobah, James-Ward Prowse, Lewis Baker, Jack Grealish, Cauley Woodrow, Brendan Galloway, Joe Gomez, John Stones, Luke Shaw, Eric Dier, Will Hughes, Demarai Gray, Chuba Akpom, Raheem Sterling, Dominic Solanke, Jordan Ibe, Marcus Rashford, Rueben-Loftus Cheek, Tammy Abraham, Jake Clarke-Salter, Fikayo Tomori, Kasey Palmer, Trevor Chalobah, Jay DaSilva, Taylor Moore, Adam Armstrong, Daniel Crowley, Lewis Cook, Patrick Roberts and Charles Vernam.
> 
> Going to put this together tomorrow and then go from there. Any further player suggestions welcome. Still undecided on whether to do it on English and/or others.




Putting a request in for Ben Woodburn if you can fit him


----------



## Shrimper

Juni said:


> How did Vernam get on your list? I ask because he and Kaikai are the only ones there who don't have some form of international youth representation but Kaikai has at least done something in the English professional game, whereas not many people know of Vernam.
> 
> No criticism either because I think he's pretty good, certainly an interesting talent who's flown well under the radar.




I saw his name when searching for others players like Taylor Moore. Not all players I include will be future nationals, some might just be good players. But I will include them nonetheless.

Will add Ben Woodburn

Added Matt Grimes, Joe Quigley, Calvin Phillips, Alex Mowatt and Charlie Taylor


----------



## Juni

Cool, I didn't suggest anything re:internationals fwiw, he just stood out because he's not one and most of the rest are, plus he's not exactly a household name.

He had a very good 14-15 season for Derby's U18s, scored a load of goals as a 10/second striker type, bit of a technician. Didn't go straight into full U21 football and instead is in Iceland on loan, hence you seeing him alongside Moore as English prospects playing overseas.


----------



## Savant

Ovie Ejaria started for Liverpool today and looked very good. 

Ben Woodburn and Trent Alexander-Arnold also were standouts in the second half, Alexander-Arnold had an assist.


----------



## cgf

Ba-Muaka Simakala signs his pro-contract with BMG. Kid's been showing very brightly in camp and friendlies this summer, could well be earning himself a spot on the senior squad for this season; alongside Sow & Ndenge.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Shrimper said:


> Dele Alli, Mandela Egbo, Sulley Kaikai, Jake Gray, Matt Targett, Jordan Pickford, Angus Gunn, Dominic Iorfa, Calum Chambers, Nathaniel Chalobah, James-Ward Prowse, Lewis Baker, Jack Grealish, Cauley Woodrow, Brendan Galloway, Joe Gomez, John Stones, Luke Shaw, Eric Dier, Will Hughes, Demarai Gray, Chuba Akpom, Raheem Sterling, Dominic Solanke, Jordan Ibe, Marcus Rashford, Rueben-Loftus Cheek, Tammy Abraham, Jake Clarke-Salter, Fikayo Tomori, Kasey Palmer, Trevor Chalobah, Jay DaSilva, Taylor Moore, Adam Armstrong, Daniel Crowley, Lewis Cook, Patrick Roberts and Charles Vernam.
> 
> Going to put this together tomorrow and then go from there. Any further player suggestions welcome. Still undecided on whether to do it on English and/or others.




Reece Oxford and Reece Burke. 

If you extend it to English based players, I'd toss Josh Cullen and Djair Parfitt-Williams in there too.


----------



## Shrimper

Cheers.

What age range do you think I should do?

I think I should do it to 23 but not include those already 23?

Need to be selective with players too. Want to put this on a blog so will probably have one section to other English players.


----------



## Shrimper

Dele Alli	Tottenham
Mandela Egbo	Borussia Monchengladbach
Sulley Kaikai,	Crystal Palace
Jake Gray	Crystal Palace
Matt Targett	Southampton
Jordan Pickford	Sunderland
Angus Gunn	Man City
Dominic Iorfa	Wolves
Calum Chambers	Southampton
Nathaniel Chalobah	Chelsea
James-Ward Prowse	Southampton
Lewis Baker	Chelsea
Jack Grealish	Aston Villa
Cauley Woodrow	Fulham
Brendan Galloway	Everton
Joe Gomez	Liverpool
John Stones	Everton
Luke Shaw	Man United
Eric Dier	Tottenham
Will Hughes	Derby
Demarai Gray	Leicester
Chuba Akpom	Arsenal
Raheem Sterling	Liverpool
Dominic Solanke	Chelsea
Jordan Ibe	Liverpool
Marcus Rashford	Man United
Rueben-Loftus Cheek	Chelsea
Tammy Abraham	Chelsea
Jake Clarke-Salter	Chelsea
Fikayo Tomori	Chelsea
Kasey Palmer	Chelsea
Trevor Chalobah	Chelsea
Taylor Moore	Lens
Adam Armstrong	Newcastle
Daniel Crowley	Arsenal
Lewis Cook	Bournemouth
Patrick Roberts	Man City
Charles Vernam. Derby
Matt Grimes	Swansea
Calvin Phillips	Leeds
Alex Mowatt	Leeds
Isaac Hayden	Arsenal
Ovie Ejaria	Liverpool
Trent Alexander-Arnold	Liverpool
Cameron Brannagan	Liverpool
Connor Randall	Liverpool
Jordan Rossiter	Liverpool
Andre Wisdom	Liverpool
Sheyi Ojo	Liverpool
Lloyd Jones	Liverpool
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain	Arsenal
Michael Keane	Burnley
Charlie Colkett	Chelsea
Zeki Fryers	Crystal Palace
Hiram Boateng	Crystal Palace
Ross Barkley	Everton
Tyias Browning	Everton
Harry Maguire	Hull
Moses Odubajo	Hull


So far, think I will take off internationals already. Also, thinking max of 23 year of season.


----------



## VEGASKING

Need to update a few clubs.
Chambers - Arsenal
Ibe - Bournemouth
Isaac Hayden just signed with Newcastle.


----------



## Shrimper

Thanks.

Coming up with a name is the hardest part, based on the English game.


----------



## Venkman

From your list Ojo, Rossiter, Moore, Tomori, Abraham, Solanke are in the squad for the Euro U19. England play France today at 6:30.

Armstrong and Gomez recovering from injury and Roberts and Cook weren't released by their clubs. Not sure on Crowley.

Goalkeepers: Sam Howes (West Ham United), Freddie Woodman (Newcastle United)

Defenders: Callum Connolly (Everton), Dael Fry (Middlesbrough), Jonjoe Kenny (Everton), Taylor Moore (RC Lens), Fikayo Tomori (Chelsea), Kyle Walker-Peters (Tottenham Hotspur)

Midfielders: Ryan Ledson (Everton), Ainsley Maitland Niles (Arsenal), Joshua Onomah (Tottenham Hotspur), Reece Oxford (West Ham), Jordan Rossiter (Rangers)

Forwards: Tammy Abraham (Chelsea), Isaiah Brown (Chelsea), Ademola Lookman (Charlton Athletic), Sheyi Ojo (Liverpool), Dominic Solanke (Chelsea)

9 of the squad were in the U17 team that won the Euros. Would be 13 if they were all available.


----------



## Shrimper

England playing wll, 2-0 over France. 30 gone


----------



## Shrimper




----------



## Savant

Shrimper said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Coming up with a name is the hardest part, based on the English game.




Would take Wisdom off and Woodburn on


----------



## Savi

JK Augustin is destroying Holland at the U19's


----------



## Jeffrey

Solanke is definitely the biggest upcoming England star striker.


----------



## Evilo

Savi said:


> JK Augustin is destroying Holland at the U19's



Good, he should have been less wasting in the previous game they should have won easily.


----------



## Tryamkin

Add Rob Holding to your list. (Bolton, soon to be Arsenal)


----------



## Evilo

Mbappe dominating once again in the U19 semis.


----------



## Burner Account

VEGASKING said:


> Need to update a few clubs.
> Chambers - Arsenal
> Ibe - Bournemouth
> Isaac Hayden just signed with Newcastle.




Jordan Rossiter - Rangers


----------



## JimboA

Any info on Joseph Colley (Chelsea)?


----------



## Evilo

France U19 team toying with Italy in the EC U19 final. Up 2-0 before the 20th.
Augustin with a nice first goal (6th of the competition).
MbappÃ© creating the second goal with a nice pass to the right side.

Blas, Michelin and Diop shining, Augustin as well, but MbappÃ©... just wow.


----------



## Evilo

4-0 final score.
Total domination by France in this Euro.


----------



## Shrimper

Evilo said:


> 4-0 final score.
> Total domination by France in this Euro.




Lost to England though.


----------



## Evilo

Shrimper said:


> Lost to England though.



After dominating them


----------



## Shrimper




----------



## Jeffrey

Evilo said:


> France U19 team toying with Italy in the EC U19 final. Up 2-0 before the 20th.
> Augustin with a nice first goal (6th of the competition).
> MbappÃ© creating the second goal with a nice pass to the right side.
> 
> Blas, Michelin and Diop shining, Augustin as well, but MbappÃ©... just wow.



I think MbappÃ© has the potential to be this year Dembele. I think France has maybe two upcoming world class player with both of them.


----------



## Juni

JimboA said:


> Any info on Joseph Colley (Chelsea)?




Big, strong, powerful central defender, happy to play in a back four or a three-man central unit. Has experience playing midfield (not that he's great there) so has the technical proficiency to be comfortable in possession. Covers ground very quickly, plays with authority and composure, has a swagger and attitude that comes with being a leader. Really nice prospect.


----------



## YNWA14

Ovie Ejaria has been incredible so far in pre-season. Definitely the top one to watch along with Woodburn and Ojo for Liverpool this year.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Juni, what's going on with Lewis Baker these days?


----------



## Live in the Now

It seemed like Conte was going to make Loftus-Cheek into a #9 based on yesterday. He looked really good doing it too.


----------



## ProPAIN

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Juni, what's going on with Lewis Baker these days?




Loaned to Vitesse for another year. Had a decent season there (one of the only loanees who had a successful loan at Vitesse last season). Needs to show he can be one of the top players in that division and have a similar impact as van Ginkel to get any consideration for the first team next year I'd say. Nathan will also be going back.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Live in the Now said:


> It seemed like Conte was going to make Loftus-Cheek into a #9 based on yesterday. He looked really good doing it too.




He announced that earlier in the summer, and I will say I was skeptical and continue to be. I did not watch yesterday's game, did he look good there?


----------



## Live in the Now

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> He announced that earlier in the summer, and I will say I was skeptical and continue to be. I did not watch yesterday's game, did he look good there?




Yes, had a few good knockdowns that gave players trouble and was very active. Also physically looks like a monster of a player even compared to Grujic who is also 6'3. Was caught offside a time or two though and was clearly getting used to the position. 

He, the previously mentioned Ejaria, and a player named Aina who played RB for Chelsea were clearly the best of the young players.


----------



## JimboA

Juni said:


> Big, strong, powerful central defender, happy to play in a back four or a three-man central unit. Has experience playing midfield (not that he's great there) so has the technical proficiency to be comfortable in possession. Covers ground very quickly, plays with authority and composure, has a swagger and attitude that comes with being a leader. Really nice prospect.




Thanks a lot for this answer. Apparently he came to Sweden late 2008 and ~5 years later he was the captain at his national team's first match, and has been ever since I think, so yeah he seems to be a leader. Exciting with him, Joel Asoro (Sunderland), Thomas Isherwood (Bayern) and others coming up. But history has taught me I shouldn't get my hopes up  Anyway thanks again for a detailed answer!

Edit: Just realized those three names all come from Brommapojkarna. Same youth academy as Ekdal, Guidetti, Augustinsson, Tibbling et al.


----------



## ProPAIN

I've never seen RLC as a 9 and I too am a little skeptical about the move. He has the height and strength to be good in the box and he's good with the ball at his feet. I've always seen him as a CM with a mix of box-to-box and playmaker. He's played those positions at youth level for club and country. He definitely shouldn't be a lone striker though. Was hoping Conte would mould him into a Pogba type player.

I think Aina has a very good chance of staying with the first team and providing depth at RB and LB. Positions he's played well at in preseason. Another academy product it would be nice to see him get some games.

Would also like to see Chalobah stick around and compete for some games too. Is versatile and can learn a lot with the current players and a manager like Conte.

Abraham and Solanke have also been identified as future players by Conte so it gives me hope. But like every manager before him, I'd like to see it happen.

Aina, Clarke-Salter, Christensen, Tomori, AkÃ©, Chalobah, RLC, Baker, Boga, Musonda, Palmer, Abraham, Solanke, Brown. Not a bad crop ready to make a push for the first-team.

If Todd Kane can recover from his injury...he played well at NEC last season, could be a candidate too.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Can I get some opinions from the German posters on Timothy Tillman? Do you think he'll play for Germany and how good is he? He's eligible for the USA, and his younger brother plays for the USA. He's on Bayern's preseason tour of the USA, and he's the youngest field player on the roster, second youngest player behind Neuer Jr. He's done well so far in the preseason games that he's played.


----------



## Fulham

Alphonso Davies 

is one to watch for Just Signed for the Whitecaps MLS team after Standing Out as a Pro for the Caps in the USL. Became the Second Youngest MLS player after Freddy Adu. He is Fearless with the ball and has had a Few great Cameo Appreances for the Full Team. 

He Turns 16 in November


----------



## YNWA14

Don't get to watch too much of the Belgian league but this Leon Bailey kid looks phenomenal. Great numbers for his age in a top league, too. He actually reminds me a bit of Sterling at the same age, but actually good at wideplay.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Can I get some opinions from the German posters on Timothy Tillman? Do you think he'll play for Germany and how good is he? He's eligible for the USA, and his younger brother plays for the USA. He's on Bayern's preseason tour of the USA, and he's the youngest field player on the roster, second youngest player behind Neuer Jr. He's done well so far in the preseason games that he's played.




Sorry I can't be much help. I haven't seen him with any of our youth NTs and I only watch the youth leagues for the north/north-east and the Rhineland/Ruhr.


----------



## Power Man

Bennacer (Arsenal) has decided to play for Algeria


----------



## Theon

How highly rated is Jonathan Ikone? I was watching the PSG - Leicester match and he was the best player on the pitch.


----------



## Evilo

McSorleyStick said:


> Bennacer (Arsenal) has decided to play for Algeria



*******.
Should have represented Algeria in youth competition then.

Though things could be worse, he could also wear the french shirt in youth selections, switch to Algeria and then wear the french NT shirt again at the Toulouse tournament like Rachid ****ing Ghezzal.


----------



## Evilo

Theon said:


> How highly rated is Jonathan Ikone? I was watching the PSG - Leicester match and he was the best player on the pitch.



Very high rated.
Compared to Coman.


----------



## Theon

One to watch for sure. PSG had another young guy score...(Edouard?) But Leicester couldn't handle Ikone.

PSG seems to have a decent crop of prospects.


----------



## Live in the Now

Nigeria is trying to convince Chuba Akpom and Ovie Ejaria to take their call-up for September. Already eliminated from AFCON so it sounds like they're trying to cap everyone they can, even players with minimal or no top flight experience.


----------



## Evilo

Theon said:


> One to watch for sure. PSG had another young guy score...(Edouard?) But Leicester couldn't handle Ikone.
> 
> PSG seems to have a decent crop of prospects.




Edouard is very highly rated as well. Best scorer in the U17 Euro, MVP.
He's a phenom really.
Ikone is talented, quick and powerful. Edouard is more of the deadly striker, who's not slow (though not very fast), good technically (but not overly incredible) but who'll score any chance he gets.
If they develop properly in 5-6 years, we should have those two, DembÃ©lÃ©, MbappÃ© and Fekir destroying opposition.


----------



## Juni

Ikone is a ridiculous player, half the time he doesn't look like he knows what he's doing but causes absolute chaos in doing so. Just perpetually moving at high speed and creating havoc, when he refines himself he'll be a huge threat.


----------



## cgf

Dennis Geiger will be with TSG's senior squad from the start of the season. Yet another very exciting talent coming through Hoffenheim's youth teams.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Argentina's u20 lost in the final, against Spain 3-1.


----------



## ecemleafs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaakCddDHm4

prob the best dembele yet and hes only 12!


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo, I know I've asked you this before, but how is Weah viewed at PSG? How far away do you think he is from being right around the first team that players like Ikone, Eduoard, Georgen, Nkunku, Augustin are right now?


----------



## Evilo

Weah is well regarded, but when you bear a name like that you have to separate his real talent from the hype in the media because of his father.
He's got a long way to go because quite frankly, PSG has a wonderful generation coming up, as you noted, aged from 17 to 20. I'd add Kimpembe.
All those guys want and need some playing time. Kimpembe is already pushing for time, Edouard will be loaned, Ikone should see some L1 games, Augustin as well, but Georgen and Nkunku have lots of depth above them.

It's tough to crack PSG's lineup frankly. Injuries could change the cards.

I haven't seen him yet, so it's tough for me to answer more precisely.


----------



## cgf

Hopefully he's promising as Hagi's kid...who was a coup for Fiorentina.


----------



## YNWA14

Saw Johannes Eggestein scored again yesterday. Has there been any indication as to whether or not he's going to get a lot of opportunity to start this year?


----------



## cgf

Curtinho said:


> Saw Johannes Eggestein scored again yesterday. Has there been any indication as to whether or not he's going to get a lot of opportunity to start this year?




Not to start the year, but he'll continue training with the senior team and they'll look to integrate him to some extent by season's end.


----------



## YNWA14

Caught the Vitesse game on recommendation to see Mitchell van Bergen (youngest ever starter for Vitesse at 16 I believe). Very impressive created a goal and caused trouble with his running and dribbling all game. Looks very promising.


----------



## cgf

Lazlo Benes only appeared briefly in BMG's friendly with Lazio; but he hit a really nice long pass with his very first touch. He looks likely to follow in the footsteps of Arrango & Xhaka as deadly left-footers for the foals.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Glad to see Ãœnal is off to a good start in the Netherlands


----------



## Shrimper

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37184021

Taylor Moore has moved to Bristol


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Deficient Mode said:


> Glad to see Ãœnal is off to a good start in the Netherlands





holy crap nice 3 goals too


----------



## YNWA14

Ben Woodburn with 2 goals and 1 assist against Arsenal's u23 side today. He's still 16. Just oozes class.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Who's a better prospect, Woodburn of Liverpool or Nelson of Arsenal?


----------



## YNWA14

Can't say I've seen enough of Nelson to make a comparison, but I would put Woodburn up with anyone in the world at 16 right now, that I've seen.


----------



## Evilo

Curtinho said:


> Can't say I've seen enough of Nelson to make a comparison, but I would put Woodburn up with anyone in the world at 16 right now, that I've seen.



Probably the 4th Liverpool youngster where you've stated this. The first two didn't pan out as you hoped.


----------



## YNWA14

Evilo said:


> Probably the 4th Liverpool youngster where you've stated this. The first two didn't pan out as you hoped.




Well, at the time that I said it Sterling and Ibe were certainly performing up there in their age group. Not really sure what went on with Ibe last year...started out bright and then Klopp seemed to bench him for the second half. Sterling has looked quite good under Guardiola so far. I mean, those two are both still very young. How many 21 year olds are there out there better than Sterling really? And I don't even like him.


----------



## Live in the Now

Woodburn is so good that the youth teams have to play him up top, but I'm not sure that's going to be his position at senior level so I'm still going to reserve judgment.

He isn't particularly fast or physical so I don't think #9 is his future role. He's a killer finisher though and can shoot the ball amazingly.


----------



## Evilo

It's tough to evaluate 16 year old because of many reasons (one including the level of competition).
International competitions are a good bet, not so much league play. Guys like Hazard, Messi, Cesc, Ben Arfa, Thiago, etc... dominated youth international competitions.


----------



## YNWA14

Live in the Now said:


> Woodburn is so good that the youth teams have to play him up top, but I'm not sure that's going to be his position at senior level so I'm still going to reserve judgment.
> 
> He isn't particularly fast or physical so I don't think #9 is his future role. He's a killer finisher though and can shoot the ball amazingly.




Yeah but Suarez isn't particularly fast either (a lot of strikers aren't). Woodburn still has lots of time to grow, he has the most important attributes to be an effective striker -- intelligence, touch, movement and most of all he has ridiculous composure. He makes even tough finishes look so easy and smooth (like his 2nd goal today).

As with any young player he could definitely flame out, but he looks the goods.


----------



## Live in the Now

Suarez isn't particularly fast but he has dogged determination, insane technique, and crazy creativity. 

I think Woodburn could find himself as a #10.


----------



## Jeffrey

Funny enough when I watch woodburn I see a lot of Suarez. Same flair, movement, creativity and determination. He still lack the physicality of Suarez (obviously) but he could be that type of player. He still has much to learn but he's an incredible talent and he is the most natural talent of all the phenom that have recently been at LFC Academy (Ibe, Sterling, Ojo).


----------



## Fulham

Fulham turned down a 5 Mill offer(with loan back) for 16 Year old LB/LW Wonderkid Ryan Sessegnon
Mentioned him a year back on here, 

He's started last 4 Matches for Fulham and has bagged a Goal, and an assist from LB, Along with some very good defensive performances.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Fulham said:


> Fulham turned down a 5 Mill offer(with loan back) for 16 Year old LB/LW Wonderkid Ryan Sessegnon
> Mentioned him a year back on here,
> 
> He's started last 4 Matches for Fulham and has bagged a Goal, and an assist from LB, Along with some very good defensive performances.




Yeah, I've read that he's really good.

How's Luca De La Torre playing? I saw that he got into two games in the EFL Cup, and helped create the winning goal in the last EFL Cup match. Is he close to regularly making the match day squad?


----------



## Fulham

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Yeah, I've read that he's really good.
> 
> How's Luca De La Torre playing? I saw that he got into two games in the EFL Cup, and helped create the winning goal in the last EFL Cup match. Is he close to regularly making the match day squad?




He is Very Highly Regarded by the Academy Staff, and has a wonderful workman-like attitude which for a No10 type of player is a huge bonus. He Currently will only get cup match's, and U21 game-time. As its difficult to find good loan environments for smaller yet technical players in the lower leagues.


----------



## cgf

Weston McKennie is apparently the next american child to join Schalke's academy.


----------



## bluesfan94

cgf said:


> Weston McKennie is apparently the next american child to join Schalke's academy.





Glad because Schalke has a strong youth program. Unhappy because Schalke


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

There's supposed to be a third American kid joining later in the season. From the top 50 list I made in May of young USA players, McKennie wasn't on it, but he probably would be after how well he's done in the last few months. Somewhere around 30, if I remade the list. The other two players were 13 and 16 on my list.

This tweet was about McKennie, and the other kid who's joining soon. The guy who runs this account knows what he's saying about USA youth players.


----------



## Theon

So Marcus Rashford just scored a hattrick on his debut for England U21s.

https://streamable.com/y9is?t=0.5

This kid is just fantastic. Made Big Sam's decision to drop him look silly.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Anyone want to try making a top 20 list of players around the world under the age of like 20, 21, 22?


----------



## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Anyone want to try making a top 20 list of players around the world under the age of like 20, 21, 22?




Way too much ground to cover, and gets more volatile the younger you go. That's why so many people stick to one league or one nationality. Still, top 20? If we make the cut off 1995 there's a lot of really good young footballers.

Ousmane Dembele
Jose Gimenez
Marco Asensio
Joshua Kimmich
Julian Brandt
Leroy Sane
Renato Sanches
Julian Weigl
Hector Bellerin
Breel Embolo
Leon Bailey
Mahmoud Dahoud
Andreas Christensen
Ruben Neves
Giovani Lo Celso
Steven Bergwijn
Diogo Jota
Marcus Rashford
Pione Sisto
Dani Ceballos
Charly Musonda Jr.
Emre Mor

Probably forgetting someone. No particular order.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

If you insist on having an Argentinean on the list there are a handful players you should take before Lo Celso. 

Correa should be on the list regardless. Really though, there are too many players to narrow it down to 20.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Narrow it down to whatever you want. 

I'm just interested in what some of these lists might look like. Just names, ranking them, cutoffs, you can choose whatever you want. I think we had one of these discussions a year ago, and there was a lot of debate.


----------



## Evilo

You can add MbappÃ© to any list. Edouard most likely as well.


----------



## Jeffrey

Anybody knows any football phenom that are unknown at this moment (So no Rashford, Gabriel Jesus, Gabigol, MbappÃ©)but that are highly regarded by their organization.
For example, at Liverpool, Ben Woodburn is considered a phenom with his recent play. He seems to be already a key player for the team u23 as a 16 years old. I also know about Ryan Sessegnon from fullham but are there any similar players that are very young(u17) and getting high praise at teams like Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Bayern, Real, Barca, PSG, Lyon?


----------



## YNWA14

I know of a few but I don't really want to mention them until after the next Dynasty Liga transfer window.


----------



## phisherman

Chris Willock and Reiss Nelson for Arsenal.

I think Juni is the best source for English based prospects.


----------



## Ajacied

Yeah, not sure about Bergwijn in that list. The Dutch have better prospects for this list, I think. My probable top 50 of Dutch and Eredivisie based prospects looks like this (ranked on potential and likelyness of achieving it), 1995 or up: 

1) Abdelhak Nouri (Ajax - AM - 97) *9C*
2) Kasper Dolberg (Ajax - ST - 97) *9C*
3) Timothy Forsu Mensah (Ajax/ManU - DM/CB/RB - 98) *8.5B*
4) Justin Kluivert (Ajax - LW/RW - 99) *9C*
5) Mathijs de Ligt (Ajax - CB - 99) *9B* 
6) Racheadly Bazoer (Ajax/Wolfsburg - DM/CM - 96) *8.5B*
7) Nathan AkÃ© (Fey/Chelsea - DM/CB/LB - 95) *8B*
8) Donyell Malen (Ajax/Arsenal - ST - 99) *8.5C*
9) Donny van der Beek (Ajax - AM - 97) *8B*
10) Davinson Sanches (Ajax - CB - 96) *8.5A*
11) David Neres Campos (Ajax - LW/RW - 97) *8C*
12) Steven Bergwijn (Ajax/PSV - ST - 97) *8.5C*
13) Kenny Tete (Ajax - RB - 95) *8A*
14) JaÃ¯ro Riedewald (Ajax - CB/DM - 96) *8.5B*
15) Daishwan Redan (Ajax/ManU - ST - '01) *8.5C*
16) Tony Vilhena (Feyenoord - CM - 95) *7.5B*
17) Mink Peeters (Ajax/Real Madrid - AM - 98) *8D*
18) Frenkie de Jong (Ajax - AM - 97) *8B* 
19) Vaclac Cerny (Ajax - LW - 97) *8.5D*
20) Giovanni Troupee (Utrecht - CB/RB - 98) *7.5B*
21) AndrÃ© Onana (Ajax - GK - 96) *8A*
22) Julian Lelieveld (Vitesse - RB - 97) *8B*
23) Rick Karsdorp (Feyenoord - CB/RB - 95) *7.5A*
24) Jeremiah St. Juste (Heerenveen CB/DM - 96) *7.5B*
25) Bart Ramselaar (Utrecht/PSV - CM - 95) *7A*
26) Carel Eiting (Ajax - CM - 98) *8C*
27) Bobby Adekanye (Ajax/Barca/Liverpool - LW - 99) *8.5C*
28) Tahith Chong (Feyenoord/ManU - RW - 99) *8.5C*
29) Javairo Dilrosun (Ajax/ManCity - 99) *7.5C*
30) Ferdi Kadioglu (NEC - CM - 99) *7.5C*
31) Juan Familia Castillo (Ajax/Chelsea - CM - '00) *8.5C*
32) Kaj Sierhuis (Ajax - ST - 98) *7.5C*
33) Myron Boadu (AZ - ST - '01) *8D*
34) Deyovasio Zeefuik (Ajax - RB - 98) *7.5C*
35) Anwar El Ghazi (Ajax/Lille - RB - 95) *8E*
36) Rick van Drongelen (Sparta - CB - 98) *7B*
37) Justin Bijlow (Feyenoord - GK - 98) *7.5C*
38) Millen Baars (Ajax/ManU - LW - '00) *8E*
39) Ricardo Kishna (Ajax/Lille - LB - 95) *7.5D*
40) Mitchell van Bergen (Vitesse - LW/RW - 99) *7B*
41) Hidde ter Avest (Twente - CB - 97) *6.5A*
42) Sofyan Amrabat (Utrecht - AM - 96) *7C*
43) Rashaan Fernandes (Feyenoord - W/ST - 98) *8C*
44) Sam Lammers (PSV - ST - 97) *7.5B*
45) Milot Rashica (Vitesse - RW - 96) *7.5C*
46) Rodney Kongolo (Feyenoord/ManCity - CM - 98) *7.5C*
47) Matteo Casseira (Ajax - ST - 97) *6.5B*
48) Dabney dos Santos (AZ - AM - 96) *7C*
49) Daley Sinkgraven (Ajax - AM/LB - 95) *7B*
50) Justin Hoogma (Heracles - LB/CB - 98) *7B*
51) JoÃ«l Piroe (Feyenoord/PSV - ST - 99) *7.5C*
52) Bilal Ould-Chikh (Twente/Benfica/Utrecht - AM - 97) *8F*
53) Kevin Diks (Vitesse/Fiorentina - RB - 96) *6.5B*
54) Sherel Floranus (Sparta - RB - 98) *6.5B*
55) Calvin Stengs (AZ - RW - 98) *7C*
56) Dylan Vente (Feyenoord - ST - 99) *7C*
57) Jeremy Helmer (AZ - AM - 97) *6.5B*
58) Pelle Clement (Ajax - RW - 96) *5.5B*
59) Jorrit Hendrix (PSV - DM - 95) *5.5A*
60) Juninho Bacuna (Groningen - AM - 97) *5.5B*
61) Calvin Verdonk (Feyenoord - CB - 97) *5.5B*
62) Jari Schuurman (Feyenoord - AM - 97) *5B*

*Not ranked:*
- Gianluca Scamacca (Roma/PSV - ST - 99) Reason: returned to Italy.
- Isiah Brown (Chelsea/NAC - AM - 97) Reason: on loan, not a property of an Eredivisie side.
- Ines Unal (ManCity/Twente - ST - 97) Reason: on loan, not a property of an Eredivisie side.
- Martin Ã–degaard (Real Madrid/Heerenveen - AM - 98) Reason: on loan, not a property of an Eredivisie side.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Moussa Dembele with 4 goals today in the Old Firm.


----------



## YNWA14

I don't necessarily agree with those rankings but nice list. Bergwijn is up there with Nouri, ahead of him for me. If you have Malen and Peeters on the list Adekanye should make it as well.


----------



## Ajacied

There isn't a single media outlet or anylitic who would put Bergwijn above Nouri. I like to hear your reasoning behind it. 

Forgot about Adekanye indeed. I know he left Ajax for Barca years ago. Have to read up on him before I place him on the list though.


----------



## YNWA14

Ajacied said:


> There isn't a single media outlet or anylitic who would put Bergwijn above Nouri. I like to hear your reasoning behind it.




I've always seen him rated pretty much at the same level. Especially after his performances at the u17 Euro where he won player of the tournament and was absolutely fantastic. He's got speed, technique, dribbling, he's two footed and has better end product. Obviously they play different positions, but I prefer Bergwijn...more direct, versatile, but still has a lot of flair and technique. He's always stood out the most to me in the youth Oranje teams -- even when playing alongside Nouri (such as at the u17 Euros).



> Forgot about Adekanye indeed. I know he left Ajax for Barca years ago. Have to read up on him before I place him on the list though.




I think he still rates highly. He's with Liverpool now and was on loan with PSV youth for a while where he looked fantastic. Another really strong dribbler who likes to run at defences. Less of a goal threat than Bergwijn though.

There's a few others missing from there that are really highly rated in the youth circles. Justin Kluivert, Che Nunnely, Carel Eiting, Sam Lammers and Noa Lang most notably.


----------



## Ajacied

Curtinho said:


> I've always seen him rated pretty much at the same level. Especially after his performances at the u17 Euro where he won player of the tournament and was absolutely fantastic. He's got speed, technique, dribbling, he's two footed and has better end product. Obviously they play different positions, but I prefer Bergwijn...more direct, versatile, but still has a lot of flair and technique. He's always stood out the most to me in the youth Oranje teams -- even when playing alongside Nouri (such as at the u17 Euros).




He's also short in stature and easy to knock off the ball. He also left Ajax to join PSV because he felt mistreated at the bare age of 12. He also plays for PSV who are horrible at developing talent. I have some questionmarks. Nouri is much more gifted, though I question him realising his insane potential as well. Hence the C. Dutch-Maroccans rarely realise theirs. Afellay had a good, smart head, but injuries and poor choices halted his. The rest all flopped pretty hard as soon as the real euro's rolled in. Ziyech appears to be different, though his choice for Marocco was a dumb one.



Curtinho said:


> I think he still rates highly. He's with Liverpool now and was on loan with PSV youth for a while where he looked fantastic. Another really strong dribbler who likes to run at defences. Less of a goal threat than Bergwijn though.
> 
> There's a few others missing from there that are really highly rated in the youth circles. Justin Kluivert, Che Nunnely, Carel Eiting, Sam Lammers and Noa Lang most notably.




I didn't forget about them. I had this list on my computer for a while now, but I have trouble including too many 1999 born players. I think I included the top 5 of that year already. 

Lammers is alright. He's behind some stiff competition at PSV though. Dolberg is too for Ajax, but he already gets quality playing time, even scores some, while being even younger. Lammers just missed the boat for me.


----------



## ecemleafs

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Moussa Dembele with 4 goals today in the Old Firm.




3 goals and an assist. header, left foot shot, right foot shot and a beautiful pass to sinclair that sent sinclair in alone on goal.


----------



## Ceremony

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Moussa Dembele with 4 goals today in the Old Firm.




Three goals against a defence with Philippe Senderos in it. Not really an achievement.


----------



## Jeffrey

Ceremony said:


> Three goals against a defence with Philippe Senderos in it. Not really an achievement.




Also to note Nicklas Bendtner also scored 4 goals in a game once.


----------



## ecemleafs

Ceremony said:


> Three goals against a defence with Philippe Senderos in it. Not really an achievement.




actually only scored 2 with senderos on the pitch


----------



## YNWA14

Ajacied said:


> He's also short in stature and easy to knock off the ball. He also left Ajax to join PSV because he felt mistreated at the bare age of 12. He also plays for PSV who are horrible at developing talent. I have some questionmarks. Nouri is much more gifted, though I question him realising his insane potential as well. Hence the C. Dutch-Maroccans rarely realise theirs. Afellay had a good, smart head, but injuries and poor choices halted his. The rest all flopped pretty hard as soon as the real euro's rolled in. Ziyech appears to be different, though his choice for Marocco was a dumb one.




Sure, but at 12 years old how many of us were really mature? He's come a long way since then anyway. If we're talking about being easy to knock off the ball Bergwijn is a colossus compared to Nouri. If one of them is going to have issues with physical play in the future it's not going to be Bergwijn, though I don't think it'll be a particularly big problem for either of them because they're both very shifty and have strong, low centres of gravity.

At the end of the day Nouri and Bergwijn represent the two top talents for the Netherlands in the upcoming generation, for me, and while I prefer Bergwijn (I like his style better, and I like that he's more direct) I think they're on pretty much the same level and can affect the NT in a similar way to Robben/Sneijder if they fulfill their potential.


----------



## Ajacied

Curtinho said:


> Sure, but at 12 years old how many of us were really mature? He's come a long way since then anyway. If we're talking about being easy to knock off the ball Bergwijn is a colossus compared to Nouri. If one of them is going to have issues with physical play in the future it's not going to be Bergwijn, though I don't think it'll be a particularly big problem for either of them because they're both very shifty and have strong, low centres of gravity.
> 
> At the end of the day Nouri and Bergwijn represent the two top talents for the Netherlands in the upcoming generation, for me, and while I prefer Bergwijn (I like his style better, and I like that he's more direct) I think they're on pretty much the same level and can affect the NT in a similar way to Robben/Sneijder if they fulfill their potential.




I think size and phyisicality is less of an issue for an AM than it is for a striker. Heck, most AM's appear to be rather short. They don't have to fight the juggernaut CB's strikers do. Granted Bergwijn is fast, but he won't shrug off defenders or be a threat in the air, and those should temper expectations somewhat.

I really, really can't see them on the same level. Not yet at least. Same with Bazoer. Bergwijn winning top U17 player honors isn't meaning much to me. Last time a Dutchman won was in 2011, Arsenal's Kyle Ebecillio. He's now a decent player for Twente, nothing more. 

Robben and Sneijder are quite optimistic, but I'll take it! 

I'd like to know your list though, if you'd like!


----------



## Fulham

15 year old Alphonso Davies was MOTM(against a weakened SKC)and scored the Winner
to put the Whitecaps thru to the CCL Quarter Finals. Was a class above on the night


----------



## Juni

For a load of 30-second bitesize chunks of some British U18 prospects, have a look at https://streamable.com/youthhawk. Not intended to be comprehensive highlights but rather a 'first look' at players you might not otherwise have had an opportunity to see and get a general impression of basic style and characteristics.


----------



## Evilo

Jeffrey said:


> Anybody knows any football phenom that are unknown at this moment (So no Rashford, Gabriel Jesus, Gabigol, MbappÃ©)but that are highly regarded by their organization.
> For example, at Liverpool, Ben Woodburn is considered a phenom with his recent play. He seems to be already a key player for the team u23 as a 16 years old. I also know about Ryan Sessegnon from fullham but are there any similar players that are very young(u17) and getting high praise at teams like Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Bayern, Real, Barca, PSG, Lyon?




Here is a list of worthy L1 prospects. Not all are going to be stars obviously, but they're highly regarded. Included are every U22 player of note, but some are already established stars, while others haven't played much ir any L1 football.

OK, now keep in mind I'm not doing any ranking because some of us are involved in a keeper league.
So in no particular order :
Angers : Santamaria
Bastia : Houri, Crivelli (on loan from Bordeaux)i, St Maximin (on loan from Monaco)
Bordeaux : Bernardoni, Prior, Poussin, Gajic, Malcom, Ounas, Vada
Caen : Karamoh
Dijon : Bahamboula (on loan from Monaco)
Guingamp : Blas, Coco
Lille : Maignan, Pavard, Lopes, Benzia, Faraj
Lorient : Cabot, Ouaneh, Maurice
Lyon : Mammana, Darder, Kemen, Kalulu, Cognat, Tolisso, Tousard, Rafia, Cornet, Perrin, Maolida
OM : Samba, Doria, Rekik, Kamara, Khaoui, Lopez, Mroivili, Machach (on loan from Toulouse), Porsan-Clemente
Metz : Didillon, Sarr, Nguette, Vion
Monaco : Diallo, Fabinho, Ndoram, TourÃ©, Mendy, Cardona, Bakayoko, Boschilia, Lemar, Silva, TraorÃ©, Jean, MbappÃ©
Montpellier : Sanson, Karraoui
Nancy : Ait Benasser (on loan from Monaco), Marchetti, Lenglet, Fischer, Cuisance, Faitout Maouassa, Nguiamba
Nantes : Braat, Kwateng, Basila, Harit, Chendri, Rongier, Stepinski
Nice : Hassen, Cardinale, Boscagli, Marcel, Dabert, Lloris, Sarr, Koziello, Walter, Cyprien, Lusamba, Benrhama, Perraud
PSG : Georgen, Kimpembe, Zagadou, Dembele, Marquinhos, Callegari, Bernede, Diaby, IkonÃ©, Nkunku, Rabiot, Augustin, Ongenda
Rennes : Nardi (on loan from Monaco), Bensebaini, Gelin, Hunou, Janvier, Poha, Diakhaby, Said
St Etienne : Maisonnial, Souici, Camara, Pierre-Gabriel, Polomat, Tannane
Toulouse : Lafont, Diop, Sylla, Michelin, Blin, Bodiger, Pi, El Mokeddem, Edouard (on loan from PSG)

Plenty of good L2 players, but if I had to give you one name : Guitane (Le Havre)

I didn't go for any U16 either, I stopped at U17.
Again, some of these players won't amount to anything. Some will be good pros. And some will be phenoms. But there are some REALLY exciting players among these.


----------



## Ajacied

Phenom Abdelhak Nouri (#1 on my list) might make his Ajax debute tonight. It's receiving lots of media attention over here. Apparantly his contract leaked and reached the media as well. He's the highest paid teenager who's never even played a league match, in the history of the Eredivisie.

He's more than ready. He's a street player, but reads the game on the pitch extremely well. Small, but uses his frame well. Passing, pace, playmaking and especially technical skills are amazing. He's fun to watch. 

Check out this assist:


This is some recent footage. His shot definitely needs work, though, as you can see.


----------



## Ajacied

Nouri played 10 minutes, looking flashy, but also a bit easy to knock off the ball. He demanded a free kick, took it and scored. 

Mathijs de Ligt, barely 17, also played (and scored) for Ajax last night. Also got named man of the match. Number 15 on the list and together with Malen the two most promissing 1999 players.


----------



## Theon

A goal and an assist while playing only 30 minutes yesterday


----------



## YNWA14

Nice debut for Nouri and de Ligt.



Ajacied said:


> I think size and phyisicality is less of an issue for an AM than it is for a striker. Heck, most AM's appear to be rather short. They don't have to fight the juggernaut CB's strikers do. Granted Bergwijn is fast, but he won't shrug off defenders or be a threat in the air, and those should temper expectations somewhat.
> 
> I really, really can't see them on the same level. Not yet at least. Same with Bazoer. Bergwijn winning top U17 player honors isn't meaning much to me. Last time a Dutchman won was in 2011, Arsenal's Kyle Ebecillio. He's now a decent player for Twente, nothing more.
> 
> Robben and Sneijder are quite optimistic, but I'll take it!
> 
> I'd like to know your list though, if you'd like!




Well, Bergwijn will most likely play out wide less so at striker so I think that the physical issue will be something they both have to deal with. We saw it yesterday with Nouri, and I think that Bergwijn will have a better adaptation because he's quicker, but like I said before I don't think it'll be something that stops either of them from becoming elite.

Yeah but Ebecillio and Bergwijn are very different players with very different progression paths. Ebecillio also made the big mistake of making a move to England at a young age.

I'll post my list after free agency in my dynasty league.  It'll probably include a few non-Dutch players also.


----------



## Evilo

Vincent Thill was the first 2000 born player to get L1 minutes. He subed in for Metz in the last 10 minutes of yesterday's game.


----------



## Dabeast

Evilo said:


> Vincent Thill was the first 2000 born player to get L1 minutes. He subed in for Metz in the last 10 minutes of yesterday's game.




That must have been a Thilling experience for him


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Vincent Thill was the first 2000 born player to get L1 minutes. He subed in for Metz in the last 10 minutes of yesterday's game.




Would be fun to see Luxembourg actually have some talent if he develops well. Thill's one of those kids a number of german clubs have been scouting.


----------



## Belizarius

I'm old.


----------



## AstrophysicalJet

Dolberg will be making some noise around Europe soon.

Kid might look like a Hitler jugend, but my god can he play.

18 years old, 4 goals in 6 eresdivise appearances.

5 goals in 8 games (all tourneys)

Tall, good speed with and without ball, good positioning, good shot and good feet. Whats not to like.

Only downside, is the Eresdivisie is not what it used to be, so for me, talents from Eresdivisie are harder to gauge than talents from the big leagues.
And before talents from Eresdivisie had a qualitystamp attached, not sure thats the case today.


----------



## Ajacied

While I agree that the Eredivisie is lacking in overal quality, it's basically become one of Europe's leading breeding places for talent. Ajax and Feyenoord have world class educational systems with lots of talent coming out of the pipeline seemingly every year. The quality of the Eredivisie, or lack thereof, causes young talent to leave for bigger leagues a bit sooner than before. 

The eye test shows Dolberg is a keeper. Really skilled at every offensive facet of the game. His second goal last night was amazing. I don't think I've ever seen Ajax so healthy in terms of youth depth.


----------



## Evilo

Algeria has been trying to recruit 18 year old Souici from St Etienne for over a year now 
Guy has been the captain of every youth category for France.


----------



## Ajacied

Hate it when that happens. Lots of Dutch-Maroccan talents seem to linger towards Marocco as well, while they've gone through every Dutch youth team.


----------



## cgf

It happens to a lot of turkish germans as well, but I don't mind seeing even the ones who could contribute to our NT opt for the country of their parents/grandparents/great-grandparents. It's not like developing players for Turkey & the USA impedes our ability to develop our own talents.


----------



## Evilo

It does.
The fact you give NT caps to player A rather than player B impedes B's development.
And if A leaves to another NT, the french program takes a hit.


----------



## cgf

Youth NTs have drastically less influence on the development of players than do their clubs/academies. Participating in short tourney's against high competition has some benefit, of course, but it's a distant second to the influence of the daily training that the players receive. You can still develop talent wonderfully without them ever getting called into the youth NTs.


----------



## Evilo

Of course, but plenty of young french players won't benefit from international competitions because of those choices by other players.

The fact is that few top players didn't represent their country in youth competitions.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Of course, but plenty of young french players won't benefit from international competitions because of those choices by other players.
> 
> The fact is that few top players didn't represent their country in youth competitions.




-Dahoud didn't feature for a youth NT until the u19s, when he was already shining for BMG's senior team in preseason matches and technically & mentally ready for senior football.

-Nadiem Amiri's first youth team call up was at the u21 level, after he broke into Hoffenheim's senior team.

-Vincent Koziello has hardly featured for your youth NTs

-Lars Stindl featured in 4 friendlies at the u20 and u21 level.

-Maximillian Phillip has 1 competitive youth team match and 4 friendlies, none before the u20s.

-Ilkay played in just 2 competitive matches for the german youth teams before his break out...though he did get some friendlies in with the u19s after showing his stuff in Nurnberg.

-Leroy Sane didn't feature for any youth teams until the u19s, less than a season before his senior team break through...ditto Ozil.

-Marco Reus has 2 matches for the U21 team on his youth team resume.

Most of the development these players experienced occurred before the youth NTs ever got involved.


----------



## Evilo

So that's the list you came up with to couner my "few top players"?
How many of those are "top players"? Gundogan? Reus?
Even guys like Griezmann who exploded recently were youth NT starters years ago.


----------



## Franck

Jeffrey said:


> Anybody knows any football phenom that are unknown at this moment




Swedish talents Alexander Isak and Sead Haksabanovic are mostly unknown outside of Sweden. Both born 1999 and already important first-team players for AIK and Halmstad respectively. Joel Asoro who is on the verge of breaking into the first team at Sunderland and impressed against Spain in his u21 national team dÃ©but earlier this month is another prominent Swedish 1999-born talent.

Isak is already being touted by some as the "next Ibrahimovic", which is silly hyperbole, but he is a huge, huge talent. I can't remember a player his age making the kind of impact in Allsvenskan he has made in the 15 years I've followed Swedish football.

Haksabanovic became the second-youngest Allsvenskan player in history when he made his dÃ©but for Halmstad last year and impressed in his appearances. This season he has been one of the best midfielders in the second tier after Halmstad's relegation, having scored 7 goals and assisted another 5.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> So that's the list you came up with to couner my "few top players"?
> How many of those are "top players"? Gundogan? Reus?
> Even guys like Griezmann who exploded recently were youth NT starters years ago.




Reus, Ilkay, Ozil and Stindl are established top players. Dahoud, Amiri, Phillip, and Sane are well on their way to proving themselves as top players. Sure Ballon d'Or winners usually star for their nations at youth levels; but all of these players are already or are going to be starting caliber players for our senior NT after having seen almost no influence from the youth NTs.


----------



## AstrophysicalJet

Ajacied said:


> While I agree that the Eredivisie is lacking in overal quality, it's basically become one of Europe's leading breeding places for talent. Ajax and Feyenoord have world class educational systems with lots of talent coming out of the pipeline seemingly every year. The quality of the Eredivisie, or lack thereof, causes young talent to leave for bigger leagues a bit sooner than before.
> 
> The eye test shows Dolberg is a keeper. Really skilled at every offensive facet of the game. His second goal last night was amazing. I don't think I've ever seen Ajax so healthy in terms of youth depth.




True, true, I can agree to that 

Ajax do look stacked with young talent, dont follow Feyenoord as much.


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> Reus, Ilkay, Ozil and Stindl are established top players. Dahoud, Amiri, Phillip, and Sane are well on their way to proving themselves as top players. Sure Ballon d'Or winners usually star for their nations at youth levels; but all of these players are already or are going to be starting caliber players for our senior NT after having seen almost no influence from the youth NTs.




Which is really few players, as I said. You came up with three established top players (Stindl isn't a "top" player).
I could scan the french NT and probably come up with a couple of names.

Which, as I said, is "a few".


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Which is really few players, as I said. You came up with three established top players (Stindl isn't a "top" player).
> I could scan the french NT and probably come up with a couple of names.
> 
> Which, as I said, is "a few".




Stindl was one of the best attackers in germany last season and should've been starting for our NT at the euros; while Ilkay & Ozil are our best non-Boateng players. These are some of the best players on our NT, not just a couple of depth guys. And from the young players I listed Dahoud is already good enough to start for our NT, with Amiri hot on his heels, Sane already getting into the senior side, and Phillipp well on his way to NT caliber. There's very high quality talent that had next to no influence from the youth NTs on their development.

Nevermind that this is missing the point we started with; as those who did feature for the youth NTs did so because of their quality, not that playing for the youth NTs is responsible for their quality. The 1-3 youth team spots that end up going to players who'll represent another nation at senior level just don't make a significant difference on a nation's ability to develop talent. So it's of no concern to me.


----------



## Evilo

Of course they do make a difference. Who's to say other players wouldn't have developped after getting some youth selections and be confronted with the world's bests? But they didn't because at that point someone was above them in the depth chart.


----------



## kabidjan18

Franck Kessie is getting a lot of big club interest recently. Defensive Midfielder, in 6 Serie A games he has 4 goals and 1 assist and he had a goal in the Copa Italia game he played as well.


----------



## Franck

kabidjan18 said:


> Franck Kessie is getting a lot of big club interest recently. Defensive Midfielder, in 6 Serie A games he has 4 goals and 1 assist and he had a goal in the Copa Italia game he played as well.




Got sent off for a nasty tackle on Monday against Crotone.


----------



## kabidjan18

Franck said:


> Got sent off for a nasty tackle on Monday against Crotone.



Haha yeah I saw, it was hilarious. "What! You're going to card me for cleating someone's knees!!"


----------



## Evilo

In the youth league, PSG u19 actually beat Ludogorets U19 by a score of .... 8-1!!
Essende and Nkunku scored twice each and Weah Junior scored 3 in his first start in this competition.
In the other game of the group, Basel beat Arsenal 2-1.

Yesterday, Monaco beat Leverkusen and Lyon lost to Sevilla.


----------



## Basement Cat

Where does Pulisic rank among u20 players? Top 15?


----------



## cgf

Basement Cat said:


> Where does Pulisic rank among u20 players? Top 15?




He's up there, but I there's probably 15 of the following that should be ranked above him: Dembele, Mor, Mlappe, Renato Sanches, Sane, Brandt, Tah, Coman, Alli, Dahoud, Christensen, Lemar, Diawara, Ruben Neves, Malcolm, Bailly, Werner, Iheanacho, Rashford, Koziello, Cornet, Bentancur, Burke, Kaputska, Jeisson Vargas, Gabriel Jesus, Ounas, Amiri, Zinchenko, Oztunali,


----------



## kabidjan18

cgf said:


> He's up there, but I there's probably 15 of the following that should be ranked above him: Dembele, Mor, Mlappe, Renato Sanches, Sane, Brandt, Tah, Coman, Alli, Dahoud, Christensen, Lemar, Diawara, Ruben Neves, Malcolm, Bailly, Werner, Iheanacho, Rashford, Koziello, Cornet, Bentancur, Burke, Kaputska, Jeisson Vargas, Gabriel Jesus, Ounas, Amiri, Zinchenko, Oztunali,



Haha that's not 15 dude that's like 30, and Bailly is 22 but I agree with your list. I also think there are a lot of undiscovered players who will be better in say a year to two years.


----------



## YNWA14

He probably meant Leon Bailey.

On top of that I'd add Bergwijn and Nouri to the list, though the Eredivisie is infuriating right now with its handling of our stars of the future.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> He's up there, but I there's probably 15 of the following that should be ranked above him: Dembele, Mor, Mlappe, Renato Sanches, Sane, Brandt, Tah, Coman, Alli, Dahoud, Christensen, Lemar, Diawara, Ruben Neves, Malcolm, Bailly, Werner, Iheanacho, Rashford, Koziello, Cornet, Bentancur, Burke, Kaputska, Jeisson Vargas, Gabriel Jesus, Ounas, Amiri, Zinchenko, Oztunali,




You are basically saying every decent prospect around his age is better than him. 

While some of them probably are, as a lot of those players are significantly older, you are not giving him credit.


----------



## Evilo

For french players on this list, some are not as good (Ounas, Cornet), but Edouard could be better down the line.

He said 15 of the following, not that all are better than him.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Misread that, my mistake.

He hasn't had the time to build up his case that some of those older players have, but among the younger players, he's among the best.


----------



## Evilo

Some will emerge and we don't know a lot about them yet.
Some will not progress as we'd expect and he could be one of them.

It's too early to make any kind of ranking for 18 year old.


----------



## Franck

Remember kids, everyone thought Bojan was destined to be a superstar when he was 18.

And in terms of over-hyped teenagers, he's one of those who actually turned out pretty okay. Go look at the old *Don BalÃ³n* lists of the 100 most promising young players and you'll see that only about a dozen or two from each list made it at the highest level and maybe a handful actually became stars.

There's a massive jump between being ahead of your age group at 17 or 18 and actually becoming a star.


----------



## kabidjan18

My bad I misread too. But I do believe in a few years he won't a top 15 player in the world. I feel like around that 19-21 age range is when a lot of gold gets unearthed.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> He's up there, but I there's probably 15 of the following that should be ranked above him: Dembele, Mor, Mlappe, Renato Sanches, Sane, Brandt, Tah, Coman, Alli, Dahoud, Christensen, Lemar, Diawara, Ruben Neves, Malcolm, Bailly, Werner, Iheanacho, Rashford, Koziello, Cornet, Bentancur, Burke, Kaputska, Jeisson Vargas, Gabriel Jesus, Ounas, Amiri, Zinchenko, Oztunali,




Plus Embolo, Bazoer, Asensio, Halilovic, Coric, Mammana...

I think he's very highly regarded because he broke out at a big club at a young age plus the American hype machine, but as of now I don't rate him as highly as some of those players.


----------



## bluesfan94

Let's also not forget a distinction between best right now and best in the future.


----------



## YNWA14

Bazoer is overrated.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Mentions Bentacur but not Asacacibar?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Pulisic isn't one of those street footballers who dances on the ball, so the football hipsters aren't going to love how he plays, but I think this is a very convincing case for him. 



Besides, not everyone's going to agree when judging potential. Not every player who does 100 step overs turns into a world class footballer. I think success is a lot more predictive than guessing at talent.


----------



## Live in the Now

I agree with the tweet in that post and that's why he'll be successful. It isn't any spectacular physical attribute that has made Pulisic a good senior player. Just good technique.

I think the only effective way to judge prospects at that age is by whether or not they could play at a top club and look like they belong. Obviously they get worse and some get better. The answer with Pulisic is yes, for now.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Pulisic isn't one of those street footballers who dances on the ball, so the football hipsters aren't going to love how he plays.




wot.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> wot.




Why are you getting defensive? It wasn't meant just towards you, but if you want to make this about yourself, lets just take Dortmund. 

You've made clear you prefer Dembele and Mor, players who've been less effective this season than Pulisic, despite being older and having more professional experience.

Do you want to explain why?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Why are you getting defensive? It wasn't meant just towards you, but if you want to make this about yourself, lets just take Dortmund.
> 
> You've made clear you prefer Dembele and Mor, players who've been less effective this season than Pulisic, despite being older and having more professional experience.
> 
> Do you want to explain why?




I just don't know why you think hipsters in particular have a preference for samba players. I'd say they tend to like them less than the general public. 

I wasn't aware that Mor had been less effective than Pulisic this season, but if you're talking about scoring totals, I suspect it has something to do with Pulisic playing the full 90 minutes in both of the 6-0 matches, and Mor playing a total of 41 minutes in them. Small sample sizes and **** though.


----------



## kabidjan18

Live in the Now said:


> I agree with the tweet in that post and that's why he'll be successful.* It isn't any spectacular physical attribute *that has made Pulisic a good senior player. *Just good technique*.
> 
> I think the only effective way to judge prospects at that age is by whether or not they could play at a top club and look like they belong. Obviously they get worse and some get better. The answer with Pulisic is yes, for now.



Are you making the case for him or against him?

You make him sound kinda maxed, which would be a legitimate concern for critics to jump on. I think he's good, but, well I already gave my opinion didn't I, I think he'll be good.

Oh, and with a small enough sample size the 4th best forward in Ligue 1 this season is Martin Braithwaite.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> I just don't know why you think hipsters in particular have a preference for samba players. I'd say they tend to like them less than the general public.
> 
> I wasn't aware that Mor had been less effective than Pulisic this season, but if you're talking about scoring totals, I suspect it has something to do with Pulisic playing the full 90 minutes in both of the 6-0 matches, and Mor playing a total of 41 minutes in them. Small sample sizes and **** though.




You didn't answer my question.

Do you want to do that?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Live in the Now said:


> I agree with the tweet in that post and that's why he'll be successful. It isn't any spectacular physical attribute that has made Pulisic a good senior player. Just good technique.
> 
> *I think the only effective way to judge prospects at that age is by whether or not they could play at a top club and look like they belong.* Obviously they get worse and some get better. The answer with Pulisic is yes, for now.




I don't buy that. The way I try to judge young talent is amongst their peers. The ones that standout without being the strongest or fastest but smarter or more gifted on the ball. 



Deficient Mode said:


> I just don't know why you think hipsters in particular have a preference for samba players. I'd say they tend to like them less than the general public.




Yeah, thought that comment was off. Hipster fans would just prefer players who are not in the limelight.



kabidjan18 said:


> Are you making the case for him or against him?
> 
> You make him sound kinda maxed, which would be a legitimate concern for critics to jump on. I think he's good, but, well I already gave my opinion didn't I, I think he'll be good.
> 
> Oh, and with a small enough sample size the 4th best forward in Ligue 1 this season is Martin Braithwaite.




He's making a case for him. As Pulisic is excelling without being physically dominant. Imagine how good he'll be when his body reaches manhood. So, to speak.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> You didn't answer my question.
> 
> Do you want to do that?




I think I've stated pretty clearly how I feel about all three of them so far. Why do I prefer Mor? He's a bit quicker to my eye; he can operate over a larger radius; his dribbling is less linear and better; his passing is more strategic and well-rounded as he's capable of switching field perfectly and he's better at combination play; his flaws (complacency with first touch, work in pressing, physique, complaining to referees when fouled instead of playing on) are eminently correctable. He undoubtedly has higher potential to my eye.

I've provided my thoughts on Dembele's weaknesses at length in the other thread, but I think his physical ability, two-footedness, superior dribbling, and strength in finishing give him an advantage over Pulisic long term on the wings. Pulisic is better for Tuchel's football right now IMO. That could quickly change. 

I don't think Pulisic is as smart, fluid, and imaginative in tight spaces as GÃ¶tze, to whom I believe you've compared him in the past. Definitely not as strong at combination play or pressing either. So no, for various reasons, I don't think long-term he's as talented as some of Dortmund's other attacking players.


----------



## kabidjan18

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> He's making a case for him. As Pulisic is excelling without being physically dominant. Imagine how good he'll be when his body reaches manhood. So, to speak.



The reverse argument can always be made though. Not every physically dominant player becomes Didier Drogba and not every technically skilled player physically grows the Gareth Bale foot. At the end of the day it's still a coin toss, but one heavily influenced of course by hard work, coach-ability and dedication which I believe Pulisic has.


----------



## jniklast

I think Dembele is even more talented and will likely become better than Pulisic, but with Mor I'm not sure. In theory he has the ability, his technique is even better than Pulisic's, but I'm not so sure he'll ever reach his potential and I think Pulisic is the smartest of the three on the pitch, which goes a long way.

So if I had to rank just these BVB talents I'd go Dembele, Pulisic, Mor in that order. But all three definitely have the potential to become stars.


----------



## Evilo

I stated DembÃ©lÃ© would be an immense player and he was playing for Rennes.
So yeah, saying it's the club they're playing in that proves anything is something I highly disagree with.


----------



## Cassano

Laporte chooses Spain


----------



## Evilo

mint said:


> Laporte chooses Spain



Huh? 
He just said he was honored to play for France...


----------



## ProPAIN

mint said:


> Laporte chooses Spain




The only source that says that, which I could find was the Sun, so...


----------



## kabidjan18

This is kinda random but other than that he has a left foot does anyone have opinions on Yann Bodiger?


----------



## Evilo

kabidjan18 said:


> This is kinda random but other than that he has a left foot does anyone have opinions on Yann Bodiger?




Nice player, good passer, and of course, very very good left foot on set plays.

Don't think he's going to be more than a good club player though.


----------



## kabidjan18

Evilo said:


> Nice player, good passer, and of course, very very good left foot on set plays.
> 
> Don't think he's going to be more than a good club player though.



You seem to watch a lot of Lyon, how has Tousart been in the games Gonalons has been suspended? I think this Sunday against St. Etienne is his last one.


----------



## Evilo

Good and I like him a lot. Very strong already and big upside.


----------



## Jeffrey

How about the Toulouse youngster?
Issa Diop and Alban Lafont. 
They seems to be developing very well!


----------



## Evilo

Both have been amazing.


----------



## Belizarius

Albant Lafont is incredible. Terrific young goalie.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Yeah, Lafont is going so under the radar because of Donnarumma. When was the last time a goalie started in a good league prior to age 18? I think there was that guy at Udinese, but I don't think there are many others.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Yeah, Lafont is going so under the radar because of Donnarumma. When was the last time a goalie started in a good league prior to age 18? I think there was that guy at Udinese, but I don't think there are many others.




Marc Andre ter Stegen


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Marc Andre ter Stegen




A little different. Donnarumma and Lafont became starters a month to a few months before turning 17, MAtS became a starter a few months before turning 19. Different leagues though, and MAtS is probably a top 10 keeper in the world, so still pretty good.


----------



## Evilo

Lafont still has a lot of work to do, especially with his feet, but his instincts and reflexes are outstanding.
Main problem for him is named Alphonse Areola, who's established himself as PSG's #1 now and as Lloris' heir for the NT.


----------



## Belizarius

Areola is really good. I liked him a lot when he won the U20 worlds. He has nicely progressed since.


----------



## Power Man

Another great game for Algerian Zakaria - Atletico Madrid B (reserves) - scored 2 goals today and could have scored 2 more


----------



## Franck

Another two goals and an assist from Alexander Isak yesterday as 3rd place AIK destroyed 2nd place NorrkÃ¶ping 6-0. Brings Isak's total to 8 goals in 14 starts.



Special, special talent. Real Madrid had scouts watching him at AIK's game last week.


----------



## kabidjan18

Tiemoue Bakayoko transfer rumors, Juventus or Manchester United, and dear to my heart, France or Cote D'Ivoire.


----------



## ecemleafs

13 year old karamoko dembele made his debut for the celtic development side today. It'd like an u20 side with a few older players allowed to play as well.


----------



## Luigi Habs

ecemleafs said:


> 13 year old karamoko dembele made his debut for the celtic development side today. It'd like an u20 side with a few older players allowed to play as well.




What's with the Dembele family and soccer??


----------



## ecemleafs

Luiginho said:


> What's with the Dembele family and soccer??




im naming my first born dembele.


----------



## Franck

Yesterday Swedish national team coach Janne Andersson brought up Alexander Isak during a press conference, stating that "he has him on his mind" and the media are starting to speculate whether Isak will break the transfer record set by Zlatan's transfer to Ajax 15 years ago. Personally I think the Emre Mor transfer this summer set the market, if a 19-year-old who was kicked off his old team 18 months prior because of poor attitude is worth €8-12M pending on clauses after six months in the Danish league then a pure-bred professional 17-year-old goalscorer like Isak has to be worth well north of €10m

Haven't seen a young Swedish player hyped like this since Zlatan. Just hope he makes the right decision choosing his next club, I wish he resists the temptation offered by mega clubs like Real Madrid and signs for a smaller team that won't bury him in the reserves, following in Zlatan's footsteps to Ajax would be amazing, as would going to some other club with a clear philosophy of developing young players like Monaco.



Luiginho said:


> What's with the Dembele family and soccer??




Some West African ethnic groups have a pretty limited number of surnames. Same reason why there's a tonne of footballers named Diarra.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

He would be very wise to go to a club such as Ajax or Southampton.


----------



## Jeffrey

Franck said:


> Just hope he makes the right decision choosing his next club, I wish he resists the temptation offered by mega clubs like Real Madrid and signs for a smaller team that won't bury him in the reserves, following in Zlatan's footsteps to Ajax would be amazing, as would going to some other club with a clear philosophy of developing young players like Monaco




I really like Monaco model but they are not just looking at developing young talent they want to compete with the likes of PSG for the french title and the Champion League.

With that being said Monaco wouldn't be a bad decision but it's not a given he would get prime minutes. See Kylian MbappÃ© who's a more skilled Martial who can barely get playing time.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Franck said:


> Yesterday Swedish national team coach Janne Andersson brought up Alexander Isak during a press conference, stating that "he has him on his mind" and the media are starting to speculate whether Isak will break the transfer record set by Zlatan's transfer to Ajax 15 years ago. Personally I think the Emre Mor transfer this summer set the market, if a 19-year-old who was kicked off his old team 18 months prior because of poor attitude is worth â‚¬8-12M pending on clauses after six months in the Danish league then a pure-bred professional 17-year-old goalscorer like Isak has to be worth well north of â‚¬10m




Why is a 17 year old worth more than a 19 year old? Not many top players whose transfer value increases over that period. A 17 year old is less likely to contribute right away. Mor's transfer only sets the bar if clubs think that Isak is as talented as he is.


----------



## Franck

Deficient Mode said:


> Why is a 17 year old worth more than a 19 year old? Not many top players whose transfer value increases over that period. A 17 year old is less likely to contribute right away. Mor's transfer only sets the bar if clubs think that Isak is as talented as he is.




For a variety of reasons, the most prominent being that Isak has accomplished more at 17 than Mor had done at 19.

Aside from that, AIK are a much bigger club than NordsjÃ¤lland and can afford to hold out for a bigger fee, Isak is under contract until 2019 and AIK are in no rush to sell. They can easily point to the transfers of Mor and Cornelius and say "we don't want any less than that".

There's also the question of position, Isak is a striker, strikers are more expensive than players at other positions.

If Isak was 24, his market value would be around â‚¬3-4M as that's what top Allsvenskan players at his position usually transfer for, as a 17 year old who's already at that level and with a potential ceiling well beyond it I can't see him leaving for anything less than twice that amount.


----------



## Franck

The Guardian's list of 60 top talents in the world is out as well as updates of their 2014 and 2015 lists.

Alexander Isak and Joel Asoro make the list for Sweden. The 1999 age group is supposedly the most promising one we've had for 30 years according to people in the know.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Franck said:


> The Guardian's list of 60 top talents in the world is out as well as updates of their 2014 and 2015 lists.
> 
> Alexander Isak and Joel Asoro make the list for Sweden. The 1999 age group is supposedly the most promising one we've had for 30 years according to people in the know.




Won't pretend that I know many of the players mentioned but I never found The Guardian list from the past editions to be accurate in their predictions. You can find much better lists out there. They have a guy from Vietnam and Singapore FFS in their 2014 edition. I mean, I could be very wrong and the kids might become a quality players but seriously what are the odds?


----------



## John Pedro

Marquinhos Cipriano not being on this list is really strange. He's clearly the second best '99 prospect in Brazil only behind Fabricio Oya. Kid has won MVP of BH cup (probably the most important u17 tourney here), is one of the top scorers in Paulista u17 league (17 goals in 19 games). 

Already being linked to Arsenal, Atletico de Madrid and Juve, too.


----------



## Franck

Luiginho said:


> Won't pretend that I know many of the players mentioned but I never found The Guardian list from the past editions to be accurate in their predictions. You can find much better lists out there. They have a guy from Vietnam and Singapore FFS in their 2014 edition. I mean, I could be very wrong and the kids might become a quality players but seriously what are the odds?




They include players from smaller nations who are interesting, even if they might not be on the fast track to becoming superstars. I like it. Lists get pretty boring when it's just the same Argentinian, Brazilian and Spanish kids over and over again.

Kids from Vietnam or Thailand may not be the next Messi, but they'll be important players for their country.


----------



## Evilo

That list is wful since they try to balance the countries.
Meaning England has as many exciting prospects as France, Germany or Argentina.
Paris for example is the european city that produces the biggest numbers of pro footballers in the world (and some of the most exciting).


----------



## cgf

Havertz & Maier certainly look very exciting; but no Kruger, Akkaynak, GL Itter, Schreck, Hanraths, Dadashov, Vujinovic, Otto, Ferati, or Tillman, is a little odd. Kruger, Akkaynak and Itter in particular look like future NT starters.


----------



## Franck

cgf said:


> Havertz & Maier certainly look very exciting; but no Kruger, Akkaynak, GL Itter, Schreck, Hanraths, Dadashov, Vujinovic, Otto, Ferati, or Tillman, is a little odd. Kruger, Akkaynak and Itter in particular look like future NT starters.




How many of those players were born in 1999?

And how interesting do you think a list of "60 top talents" would be if a third of the list were Germans?


----------



## cgf

Franck said:


> How many of those players were born in 1999?




All.


----------



## YNWA14

EDIT: Nevermind, missed him first read through.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

People will never agree on lists...Not sure why bothered trying to balance out the nations. Also I'd take Ascacibar pretty easily over Vadala for Argentina.


----------



## John Pedro

You can't really say whose is better since most of these kids don't play in the same league, hell, a lot of them don't even play on the same continent. So, I have no problem with them balancing it. Nice to see guys from Iceland/USA and other non-traditional countries.


----------



## Evilo

It's just plain ridiculous to call it "top 60 talents" in the world when it doesn't even feature half of them because they come from big talent academies from usual countries... 

Good you don't see it as a problem, I certainly do.

Just as a reminder, last year theguardian had the 98 list. They had 4 frenchmen on it. None was MbappÃ© (as of now posssibly the best 98 player in the world) or Edouard (current U17 Euro MVP and best scorer). So even when they try to have the best from each nation, they fail miserably.


----------



## John Pedro

Evilo said:


> It's just plain ridiculous to call it "top 60 talents" in the world when it doesn't even feature half of them because they come from big talent academies from usual countries...
> 
> Good you don't see it as a problem, I certainly do.
> 
> Just as a reminder, last year theguardian had the 98 list. They had 4 frenchmen on it. None was MbappÃ© (as of now posssibly the best 98 player in the world) or Edouard (current U17 Euro MVP and best scorer). So even when they try to have the best from each nation, they fail miserably.




I'm not defending them. I'm just saying that I get why they did balance it in order to make it more appealing worldwide. They even said one of the best, they didn't claim them the best either.


----------



## Jeffrey

Evilo said:


> That list is wful since they try to balance the countries.
> Meaning England has as many exciting prospects as France, Germany or Argentina.
> Paris for example is the european city that produces the biggest numbers of pro footballers in the world (and some of the most exciting).



I would have thought Buenos Aires or Sao Paulo. I guess it depends what you define as pro footballers.


----------



## bluesfan94

Jeffrey said:


> I would have thought Buenos Aires or Sao Paulo. I guess it depends what you define as pro footballers.




Key word is European city.


----------



## Franck

Evilo said:


> It's just plain ridiculous to call it "top 60 talents" in the world when it doesn't even feature half of them because they come from big talent academies from usual countries...




Learn to read, it's _60 top talents_, not _the 60 best talents in the world_.

It's a list raising awareness of some interesting young players, it's not some sort of ranking.


----------



## Evilo

Jeffrey said:


> I would have thought Buenos Aires or Sao Paulo. I guess it depends what you define as pro footballers.




As I said, european city.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Very fair that Taitague is the only American on the list. There are a few others like Gruno, Adams, Carranza, Lopez, Pomykal who could have been in consideration, but last year would've been a much better age group to include more than one American. Taitague's the best American player from the 1999 age group. One other American is listed, Edwin Lara, but he plays for Mexico.


----------



## kabidjan18

This screams agent identified, agent connection generated list. These aren't the best players, these players need publicity, or so their agents believe...

Some of these picks are right, some are sensationalist but it seems for the most part, especially these prospects of smaller countries that these are from the agent side of the equation, not the scout side. Just my initial thoughts.


----------



## Deficient Mode

kabidjan18 said:


> This screams agent identified, agent connection generated list. These aren't the best players, these players need publicity, or so their agents believe...
> 
> Some of these picks are right, some are sensationalist but it seems for the most part, especially these prospects of smaller countries that these are from the agent side of the equation, not the scout side. Just my initial thoughts.




I didn't get that impression at all. The journalists writing the blurbs seem for the most part to specialize in the countries whose players they are writing about. The list is indeed about publicity than a ranking of the best, though. Here are some far-flung talents you don't know.


----------



## Evilo

Well if they're specialized, they should change the french one  Especially last year's.


----------



## kabidjan18

Deficient Mode said:


> I didn't get that impression at all. The journalists writing the blurbs seem for the most part to specialize in the countries whose players they are writing about. The list is indeed about publicity than a ranking of the best, though. Here are some far-flung talents you don't know.



I watch some of the African journalists regularly. They're absolutely specialized, they know people in the community (by community I mean agents, coaches, players. Fans is another community), they know players and are in contact with a lot of the players. 

Sure, this can well be seen as a far flung talents list. Fair appraisal.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Well if they're specialized, they should change the french one  Especially last year's.




They don't change the players after the fact. They just update information.


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> They don't change the players after the fact. They just update information.



What I mean is that the guy who selected the french prospects last year is absolutely terrible. You can't miss prospects like MbappÃ© and Edouard.


----------



## Franck

Evilo said:


> What I mean is that the guy who selected the french prospects last year is absolutely terrible. You can't miss prospects like MbappÃ© and Edouard.




You posses the magical power of hindsight.


----------



## Evilo

Franck said:


> You posses the magical power of hindsight.



Nope, you can go back a few years ago and see from my posts.
It was obvious a year ago. Heck, even french media were wondering how those 4 guys were chosen over them.


----------



## YNWA14

I almost feel like they intentionally don't pick some of the more well known prospects so that they can have 'gems' that not many really thought would be top players (don't they have Rashford on one of their older lists before anyone thought he'd be a big deal?).

For example with the Netherlands in each edition they have one of the consensus top talents from the year and then they go with a fringe top prospect ignoring others ones.

*1999 *- de Ligt (probably the best 99 born) followed by Chong (I would put Adekanye, Kluivert, Lang and Malen, Piroe at least ahead of him atm).
*1998 *- Fosu-Mensah (one of the top) followed by Dilrosun and Bijlow (Eiting, Peeters, Fernandes, Kongolo etc. could be there instead).
*1997 *- Nouri (the easy pick) followed by Schuurman (this one is a big wtf, but Bergwijn, Verdonk, van de Beek, de Jong and even Lammers would be better choices here, but Bergwijn is the obvious one)


----------



## kabidjan18

This is really cute but Karamoko Dembele, 13 year old from Cote D'Ivoire, is already playing with the U20 Celtic side.

http://koaci.com/cote-divoire-decouverte-dune-pepite-ivoirienne-fait-parler-ecosse-102595.html


----------



## Deficient Mode

kabidjan18 said:


> This is really cute but Karamoko Dembele, 13 year old from Cote D'Ivoire, is already playing with the U20 Celtic side.
> 
> http://koaci.com/cote-divoire-decouverte-dune-pepite-ivoirienne-fait-parler-ecosse-102595.html




Wow. Looks like a really nice player. No way the other kids in the video are 19 though. It must be earlier footage.


----------



## ecemleafs

Deficient Mode said:


> Wow. Looks like a really nice player. No way the other kids in the video are 19 though. It must be earlier footage.




thats not from the u20 game. thats a highlight video of kids prob 13-16 years old. he played in the u20 game the other day because hes a big time prospect and the u20 team was without a lot of players due to international call ups and a celtic rangers u17 or something game a day or 2 after that match. karamoko lit up barcelonas youth in a summer tournament and was named player of the tourney.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

That kid's passing seems ****, although that should come with age. His dribbling and explosiveness is way better than his competition.


----------



## kabidjan18

Glad he plays in Scotland and not France or England, we've been down that trail before.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...t-up-to-stop-him-being-stolen-by-ivory-coast/

Scotland wants to get him in the system in hopes of a future commitment but luckily youth football in FIFA is non-binding. When he is older, can make proper decisions and is presented with the choice of where to play his future International football it's going to be fairly simple calculations. One hasn't been to the World Cup since 1998, and hasn't been to the Euros since 1996, both well before he was born. Another is the reigning AFCON champion with 3 consecutive World Cup qualifications. Somehow this decision doesn't seem to be all that difficult.


----------



## ecemleafs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> That kid's passing seems ****, although that should come with age. His dribbling and explosiveness is way better than his competition.






his passing seems pretty good in this video. its from the st kevins boys academy cup.


----------



## ecemleafs

kabidjan18 said:


> Glad he plays in Scotland and not France or England, we've been down that trail before.
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...t-up-to-stop-him-being-stolen-by-ivory-coast/
> 
> Scotland wants to get him in the system in hopes of a future commitment but luckily youth football in FIFA is non-binding. When he is older, can make proper decisions and is presented with the choice of where to play his future International football it's going to be fairly simple calculations. One hasn't been to the World Cup since 1998, and hasn't been to the Euros since 1996, both well before he was born. Another is the reigning AFCON champion with 3 consecutive World Cup qualifications. Somehow this decision doesn't seem to be all that difficult.




from what ive read he considers himself scottish as thats where hes grown up. he wasnt plucked from ivory coast after showing promise. hes a glasgow kid.


----------



## kabidjan18

ecemleafs said:


> from what ive read he considers himself scottish as thats where hes grown up. he wasnt plucked from ivory coast after showing promise. hes a glasgow kid.



Absolutely, but soon he's going to watch his first world cup, and he's going to think "I want to be there some day..."

Actually, who am I kidding. He probably watched the 2014 edition.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> That kid's passing seems ****, although that should come with age. His dribbling and explosiveness is way better than his competition.




His passing looks very good imo. He has good ideas and good execution. Maybe he could show Dortmund's Dembele a thing or two.


----------



## ecemleafs

kabidjan18 said:


> Absolutely, but soon he's going to watch his first world cup, and he's going to think "I want to be there some day..."
> 
> Actually, who am I kidding. He probably watched the 2014 edition.




lol do any of these dembeles actually play for a west african country internationally?


----------



## kabidjan18

ecemleafs said:


> lol do any of these dembeles actually play for a west african country internationally?



No, because the prospects of playing for France are better than the prospects of playing for Mauritania or Mali. The script is flipped this time because the chances are better to play in the World Cup and Continental Championships for Cote D'Ivoire than for Scotland.


----------



## cgf

kabidjan18 said:


> No, because the prospects of playing for France are better than the prospects of playing for Mauritania or Mali. The script is flipped this time because the chances are better to play in the World Cup and Continental Championships for Cote D'Ivoire than for Scotland.




Scotland could be where Wales is now, by the time this kid is a senior international, even if he makes it; Burke is a serious talent to.

It's not like it's unheard of for players to not pick the strongest NT they are eligible for. See Ibrahimovich, Calhanoglu, Pulisic, etc.


----------



## kabidjan18

cgf said:


> Scotland could be where Wales is now, by the time this kid is a senior international, even if he makes it; Burke is a serious talent to.
> 
> It's not like it's unheard of for players to not pick the strongest NT they are eligible for. See Ibrahimovich, Calhanoglu, Pulisic, etc.



That's the thing though. All programs cannot simultaneously rise. For reach rise there must be a balancing fall. If Wales is rising, Iceland is perhaps rising, the more competitive these teams become the harder it is for Scotland to rise beyond standard as well. 

When Ibrahimovich chose Sweden it was more powerful that B&H, they had never qualified before 2014, though I do believe had he the choice he would have chosen Sweden anyways. Calhanoglu is a good example, though he chose the motherland. Pulisic, the USA is the Cote D'Ivoire of CONCACAF, but examples aren't important the concept is true, it happens but I would say it isn't the norm.


----------



## Deficient Mode

kabidjan18 said:


> That's the thing though. All programs cannot simultaneously rise. For reach rise there must be a balancing fall. If Wales is rising, Iceland is perhaps rising, the more competitive these teams become the harder it is for Scotland to rise beyond standard as well.
> 
> When Ibrahimovich chose Sweden it was more powerful that B&H, they had never qualified before 2014, though I do believe had he the choice he would have chosen Sweden anyways. Calhanoglu is a good example, though he chose the motherland. Pulisic, the USA is the Cote D'Ivoire of CONCACAF, but examples aren't important the concept is true, it happens but I would say it isn't the norm.




Zlatan was eligible to play for Croatia as well. They were definitely a more prestigious and successful team than Sweden at the time. It's not easy to generalize about it.

Crazy to speculate about a 13 year old's national team future though.


----------



## Evilo

Again, it seems ovious to me that players should choose the country that invested their time and money in developping their skills. Especially sicne most of the time, that's where they're born too.


----------



## kabidjan18

Deficient Mode said:


> Zlatan was eligible to play for Croatia as well. They were definitely a more prestigious and successful team than Sweden at the time. It's not easy to generalize about it.
> 
> Crazy to speculate about a 13 year old's national team future though.



True but again the difference was not between a team that consistently qualified and a team that hadn't qualified in decades. It is hard to speculate but seems the Scottish FA is doing their best to recruit as they stated in the article. FIF will probably try as well.



Evilo said:


> Again, it seems ovious to me that players should choose the country that invested their time and money in developping their skills. Especially since most of the time, that's where they're born too.



The ability to recruit binationals is really key in CAF and especially now, I feel like even recently an increase in recruiting success across Africa has made the general level of competition rise, giving more power to traditionally weaker teams. I feel like the overall quality of African football has risen with it. Players recruited are never top 15-20 guys, just good players with a heart for the motherland.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Scotland could be where Wales is now, by the time this kid is a senior international, even if he makes it; Burke is a serious talent to.
> 
> It's not like it's unheard of for players to not pick the strongest NT they are eligible for. See Ibrahimovich, Calhanoglu, Pulisic, etc.




True, but from what I've read, Pulisic has minimal connection to Croatia. I think his grandparents are Croatian. I would also beg to differ that Pulisic didn't choose the strongest NT he was eligible for, but thats another discussion. 

The USA benefits a lot from this though with the German-American players we get. We've gotten Jones, Johnson, Brooks, Chandler, Boyd, Williams, Green, Dooley this way. We've also lost our share of really good players to other countries. Rossi to Italy, Subotic to Serbia, Hangeland to Norway, Ibisevic wasn't eligible for the USA, but he spent a number of years here. He played college soccer. There is also a constant battle with Mexico for Mexican-Americans, although the best player we've lost to Mexico so far is probably Isaac Brizuela who isn't that good.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> True, but from what I've read, Pulisic has minimal connection to Croatia. I think his grandparents are Croatian. I would also beg to differ that Pulisic didn't choose the strongest NT he was eligible for, but thats another discussion.
> 
> The USA benefits a lot from this though with the German-American players we get. We've gotten Jones, Johnson, Brooks, Chandler, Boyd, Williams, Green, Dooley this way. We've also lost our share of really good players to other countries. Rossi to Italy, Subotic to Serbia, Hangeland to Norway, Ibisevic wasn't eligible for the USA, but he spent a number of years here. He played college soccer. There is also a constant battle with Mexico for Mexican-Americans, although the best player we've lost to Mexico so far is probably Isaac Brizuela who isn't that good.




US is better than Croatia? Ok there.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> US is better than Croatia? Ok there.




We do better at big tournaments than they do.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> We do better at big tournaments than they do.




Sometimes.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> Sometimes.




Take the last 5 World Cups, which are the only ones that the country of Croatia has existed. We have performed better in three World Cups, they have performed better in one World Cup, and there has been one World Cup where both got eliminated in the World Cup Group Stage.

Its hard to compare the Gold Cup to the Euros, but we win about half of our Gold Cup's, they haven't finished better than QF's at the Euros. We finished second at the Confederations Cup, and Fourth at the Copa America.

They have players at bigger clubs, thats obvious, but we get better results most of the time, which would make one National Team better than the other.


----------



## Live in the Now

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Take the last 5 World Cups, which are the only ones that the country of Croatia has existed. We have performed better in three World Cups, they have performed better in one World Cup, and there has been one World Cup where both got eliminated in the World Cup Group Stage.
> 
> Its hard to compare the Gold Cup to the Euros, but we win about half of our Gold Cup's, they haven't finished better than QF's at the Euros. We finished second at the Confederations Cup, and Fourth at the Copa America.
> 
> They have players at bigger clubs, thats obvious, but we get better results most of the time, which would make one National Team better than the other.




This is completely devoid of all context. Results are not the sole arbiter that determines which teams are better than others. A good example of that is in terms of the draws both teams have received. The US has been fortunate to not draw teams in the WC groups that are completely counter to our playing style.

It is a safe assumption that Croatia has, on the other hand. Much like us, they struggle against a more Latin style of football and have repeatedly taken bruising losses against those sorts of teams in the World Cup.


----------



## bluesfan94

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Take the last 5 World Cups, which are the only ones that the country of Croatia has existed. We have performed better in three World Cups, they have performed better in one World Cup, and there has been one World Cup where both got eliminated in the World Cup Group Stage.
> 
> *Its hard to compare the Gold Cup to the Euros, but we win about half of our Gold Cup's, they haven't finished better than QF's at the Euros. We finished second at the Confederations Cup, and Fourth at the Copa America.*
> 
> They have players at bigger clubs, thats obvious, but we get better results most of the time, which would make one National Team better than the other.




lol.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

BTW 442 made a list of the top 59 players under 21. Some glaring omissions of course.


----------



## YNWA14

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> BTW 442 made a list of the top 59 players under 21. Some glaring omissions of course.




What omissions are you thinking of?

With that in mind the actual list itself isn't horrible. The order is pretty bad. Like I'm not sure there are many who'd take Martial, Rashford or Sanches over Dembele for example. Ramselaar is an interesting inclusion too. Alli being #1 is probably a stretch, though he's one of the few English talents that is legitimately being hyped and actually lives up to it.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Mammana off the top of my head. Not sure if they're including 21 year olds but if so, than it gets even worse.

The order sucks too. Lo Celso ahead of Ascacibar is lol worthy.


----------



## Evilo

Yeah order is horrible, and I'll just stay for the french prospects. Absolutely horrible, even criminal sometimes.

As for omissions, current U17 MVP and best scorer Odsonne Edouard isn't on it. And I'd say Reine-Adelaide is for instance one of the best Arsenal youngsters and yet they rank some REALLY high and he's not even on the list.

Sarr isn't on it either. Lafont as well.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

One thing I find surprising is the lack of hype on Alena and lee. Not just this list but I rarely see them on any lists.


----------



## Evilo

Without much of a surprise to anyone given his character, Ounas has chosen to play for Algeria. He'll kiss the french badge bye bye after his U20 selections.
As a reminder, this is a guy that never lived in Algeria in his life.


----------



## kabidjan18

Evilo said:


> Without much of a surprise to anyone given his character, Ounas has chosen to play for Algeria. He'll kiss the french badge bye bye after his U20 selections.
> As a reminder, this is a guy that never lived in Algeria in his life.



No surprise, but is at a position where Algeria won't need him for the forseeable future. Without a doubt Algeria has been the best team in CAF in recruiting. Herve Renard has also been a recruiting machine wherever he goes. He's effective in Africa and nowhere else because he's an amazing recruiter, not a tactician. 

Gabon could be something to look forward to. They recruited Aubameyang and Lemina, and they already had N'Dong and Poko. They're recruiting Denis Bouanga, and if they get him they have a strong midfield with N'Dong-Lemina-Poko and a good forward line with Evouna-Aubameyang-Bouanga.


----------



## Ajacied

L'equipe had some lofty praise regarding Nouri, labelling him as the next Cruyff.


----------



## Power Man

Evilo said:


> Without much of a surprise to anyone given his character, Ounas has chosen to play for Algeria. He'll kiss the french badge bye bye after his U20 selections.
> As a reminder, this is a guy that never lived in Algeria in his life.




Meanwhile Bensebaini who was born and raised in Algeria is not called up

Our FA President is a piece of ****


----------



## kabidjan18

Big day for Cote D'Ivoire. France U21 is currently 3rd in their group behind Macedonia and Iceland. If Macedonia and Iceland win out then France is eliminated. If France wins and one of Macedonia or Iceland draws or falls then France goes to the next round. If both fall and France wins then France qualifies for the 2017 U21 UEFA Championship. This is important because Dussuyer is recruiting a few players on the team, namely Tiemoue Bakayoko, SÃ©bastien Haller, and Maxwell Cornet, as well as Jean-Phillipe Gbamin, Jonathan Bamba and Seko Fofana, however, before the U21 season is over they won't be able to get any commitments, and were France to qualify that means they wouldn't have any reinforcements for the upcoming AFCON.

France wins 3-0, but Macedonia wins as well, Macedonia advances.


----------



## Evilo

Mundo Deportivo reported a few days ago that a scout from Barca came to see MbappÃ© and came back completely in love with the player, saying he's the new Henry.

Meanwhile he's back from injury and hasn't played a lot (Monaco has been red hot) and his father is already pressuring the club into either playing him or selling him during the winter mercato.

Every single big club has shown interest and a 40M€ bid from City was rejected in august.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> Mundo Deportivo reported a few days ago that a scout from Barca came to see MbappÃ© and came back completely in love with the player, saying he's the new Henry.
> 
> Meanwhile he's back from injury and hasn't played a lot (Monaco has been red hot) and his father is already pressuring the club into either playing him or selling him during the winter mercato.
> 
> Every single big club has shown interest and a 40Mâ‚¬ bid from City was rejected in august.




I saw Mbappe play and I think he's the real deal. Could see him being a top 5 player 5 years from now. 

I said in another thread France has crazy young talent. Mbappe, Dembele, Pogba, Martial, Koman, Aerola (or Lafont), Lemar, Laporte, Varane, Kurzawa to name just a few. That's unfair bro.


----------



## Evilo

Zouma, SidibÃ©, Diop, Sarr, etc....

Indeed crazy depth. However, I wonder how many of these will have character problems (see Ben Arfa, Nasri, Menez, M'Vila, Benzema, etc...).


----------



## Jeffrey

Mbappe is incredibly talented. You can see he has it all and he should become a world class player in the near future. He needs to play though so hopefully he doesn't join Barca or Real to rot on their bench.


----------



## Jeffrey

Evilo said:


> Zouma, SidibÃ©, Diop, Sarr, etc....
> 
> Indeed crazy depth. However, I wonder how many of these will have character problems (see Ben Arfa, Nasri, Menez, M'Vila, Benzema, etc...).




Ikone, Coman, Koziello, Umtiti... and a certain Griezmann who's also apparently very good


----------



## Evilo

Jeffrey said:


> Ikone, Coman, Koziello, Umtiti... and a certain Griezmann who's also apparently very good



Sure but Griezmann is the same age as Lacazette


----------



## kabidjan18

The Odsonne Edouard kid could be something really special.


----------



## Evilo

Edouard could be amazing indeed. Reine Adelaide has potential too. Nkunku, Georgen, Tousard, Harit (!!!), Michelin...

And RABIOT !!!


----------



## ecemleafs

and Moussa Dembele...


----------



## Fulham

ecemleafs said:


> and Moussa Dembele...




Yeah he's going to be a star, its a travesty that Fulham received less than 300 Grand compensation for him, just for him to turn around and be sold for 10++ Million a year later


----------



## Jeffrey

Fulham said:


> Yeah he's going to be a star, its a travesty that Fulham received less than 300 Grand compensation for him, just for him to turn around and be sold for 10++ Million a year later




Well Pogba came back maybe Moussa could go back too?


----------



## Franck

Another goal from Isak today.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he gets selected to the next national team squad.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Sebastian Driussi has been on fire to start the league 6 goals in 6.


----------



## YNWA14

Kaj Sierhuis of Ajax looks phenomenal by the way. He's been scoring at will in their youth set up this season and has brought his form over to the UEFA youth league. Scored this beauty today:


----------



## Jeffrey

The more I watch Kylian MbappÃ© (Moscow and Montpellier) the more I'm convinced he is the next big thing in football. His touch, vision and dribbling are already elite and he is 17 years old.


----------



## ecemleafs

https://streamable.com/6zls

Moussa Dembele with a late winner against the rangers. cheeky backheel finish. 4 goals in 2 matches against them.


----------



## ecemleafs

https://mobile.twitter.com/lachainelequipe/status/790207765713223680/video/1

a french commentator reaction to the goal.


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Fulham said:


> Yeah he's going to be a star, its a travesty that Fulham received less than 300 Grand compensation for him, just for him to turn around and be sold for 10++ Million a year later




I'd surprised if Celtic let him go for less than 20 million at this stage.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Renato Sanches wins Golden Boy. The two guys I would've picked, Ousmane Dembele and Dele Alli, don't even make the top three


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Nothing but marketing stunts.

Rashford and last years winners over some other guys.


----------



## Evilo

I like Coman (Rashford is awfully overrated), but plenty of players had a better year than these. 
And Sanches has come from underrated to completely overblown.


----------



## kabidjan18

Some little guys.

Souleymane Coulibaly was a player most people left for dead after his career tanked at 18, but he's still only 21 and doing pretty good in the Scottish Premiership. He's tied for third in goals (6) behind Scott Sinclair (8) and Moussa Dembele (7). 

Chris Bedia scored 4 goals in his first 4 starts for RSC Charleroi in the Juliper League (one coming in the Beker), only other person to do that this season was Lukasz Teodorczyk. 3+1 in 5 games when starting for Charleroi this season.


----------



## Eye of Ra

Keep an eye on Mattias Svanberg (MalmÃ¶ FF). 16 years old and have 4 points in 5 games. I have seen all 5 games and he is legit......fantastic vision and great with the ball.


----------



## Burner Account

Liverpool look set to sign 6'5" 15-year old Emeka Obi from Bury

http://www.burytimes.co.uk/sport/14826554.Youngest_ever_Shaker_Obi_set_for_Liverpool_switch/


----------



## Evilo

Good day when both MbappÃ© and DÃ©mbÃ©lÃ© score.


----------



## YNWA14




----------



## Ajacied

Decent goal. 

Came in and expected praise for Dolberg, who's been developing more rapidly than I thought. He's already a better striker than Milik. I'd even go as far that it will be hard to maintain him if he keeps this up. A 35/40M offer in the summer wouldn't shock me.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Hoping Dortmund buys Dolberg as Auba's replacement, if he leaves.


----------



## YNWA14

Ajax will be just fine when Dolberg eventually goes. Kaj Sierhuis is an absolute machine. Another 2 goals in the Youth CL yesterday. He's one to watch for sure.


----------



## Ajacied

Nouri, de Ligt, Cerny and van der Beek all starting for Ajax vs Panathinaikos in about 30 minutes. I believe all are top 10 talents on my list.


----------



## Ajacied

Some more Dolberg hype..


----------



## YNWA14

...aaaaaaaaaaand there it is. Woodburn opens his Liverpool account at the tender age of 17 (becoming the youngest ever goal scorer for Liverpool).


----------



## Burner Account

smashed

ridiculous by Origi


----------



## YNWA14

I have to say, Donny van de Beek is really taking advantage of his recent call up appearances. He's been one of the best players on the team over that period. He's certainly made more of an impact than Nouri, and even though I think because of his technical ability/flair almost everyone has rated Nouri higher in their youth I'm starting to think Maradonny has a chance at being the more successful of the two because he has a wonderful footballing brain and work ethic.


----------



## Peen

Ajacied said:


> Nouri, de Ligt, Cerny and van der Beek all starting for Ajax vs Panathinaikos in about 30 minutes. I believe all are top 10 talents on my list.




De Ligt seems to be really ahead of his years..


----------



## Juni

Daishawn Redan looks to be heading to Man Utd...


----------



## YNWA14

Juni said:


> Daishawn Redan looks to be heading to Man Utd...




I saw this too today. Shame, really. He's extremely promising.


----------



## Evilo

Highly touted goalie prospect Anthony Maisonnial is currently St Etienne's 3rd goalie (he's 17 years old).
Ruffier is out for this game and his backup, Moulin just got red carded very early, so Maisonnial is playing against Lorient right now and is absolutely crazy good so far.


----------



## Ajacied

Juni said:


> Daishawn Redan looks to be heading to Man Utd...




United are also trying to sign fellow Ajacied and 13 year old Naci Unuvar.


----------



## Power Man

My boy Zakaria Boulahia is leading Atletico Madrid's B team with 8 goals in 12 matches.

☺

Club AtlÃ©tico de Madrid Â· Web oficial - Zaka, pichichi del AtlÃ©tico B con 8 goles
http://www.atleticodemadrid.com/noticias/zaka-pichichi-del-atletico-b-con-8-goles


----------



## Deficient Mode

lol


----------



## ecemleafs

Deficient Mode said:


> lol





is this old news? hes been going to training for both national teams for a few months i believe. karamoko was born in london, but raised in scotland.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Argentina name their 20 team.

No surprise Ascacibar is there.. he'll probably be the captain. Others to watch for Conechny, MartÃ­nez, RodrÃ­guez and Barco. Although Braco is just 17 so, I doubt he'll have a major role on the team.

There's a guy named Kevin Mac Allister. I really hope he turns into a player. Just because of the name.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

18 year old American Haji Wright has been called up from the U-19 team to the first team training camp for Schalke. He was the only player selected to join the pro training camp. The manager Weinzierl was complimentary of him.


----------



## gary69

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Argentina name their 20 team.
> 
> No surprise Ascacibar is there.. he'll probably be the captain. Others to watch for Conechny, MartÃ­nez, RodrÃ­guez and Barco. Although Braco is just 17 so, I doubt he'll have a major role on the team.
> 
> There's a guy named *Kevin Mac Allister*. I really hope he turns into a player. Just because of the name.




I remember an Argentine international player Carlos Mac Allister from the 1990's. Any relation, son perhaps?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

gary69 said:


> I remember an Argentine international player Carlos Mac Allister from the 1990's. Any relation, son perhaps?




Before my time but looked it up and yeah that's his son.


----------



## Evilo

Bayern have signed 16 year old Ryan Johansson from Metz. A very very good prospect from what I've heard.


----------



## Franck

Evilo said:


> Bayern have signed 16 year old Ryan Johansson from Metz. A very very good prospect from what I've heard.




That's possibly the least French name I've ever seen.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Can't find any links to watch the U20 South American championship. It was on Bein sports last time round but that is no longer the case. If anyone stumbles on a way to watch the games please let me know.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Franck said:


> That's possibly the least French name I've ever seen.




He's from Luxembourg.


----------



## YNWA14

Justin Kluivert (17) had a very positive debut for Ajax. He will probably get some more time going forward due to injuries also. He's one of the most promising youngsters in the Netherlands with potential to be the best of them along with Nouri and Bergwijn (among attacking players). He could have easily had a few assists and had the pass that led to the penalty. Constant dangerous movement with and without the ball and a good eye for incisive passes.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Curtinho said:


> Justin Kluivert (17) had a very positive debut for Ajax. He will probably get some more time going forward due to injuries also. He's one of the most promising youngsters in the Netherlands with potential to be the best of them along with Nouri and Bergwijn (among attacking players). He could have easily had a few assists and had the pass that led to the penalty. Constant dangerous movement with and without the ball and a good eye for incisive passes.





Son of Patrick?


----------



## JimboA

Franck said:


> That's possibly the least French name I've ever seen.






Pavel Buchnevich said:


> He's from Luxembourg.




And eligible to play for Sweden and Ireland. Plays for Lux though.



Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Son of Patrick?




Yes! Damn, Patrick was one of my favorites as a kid (the Barca years).


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Watched large chunks of Argentina/Peru...the field was ****** but it was no excuse for the terrible passing and technical ability of the players. This is the 2nd tournament in a row where I find that a lot of players are clearly not good enough in terms of technical ability. I don't think this is an issue for other countries in Europe but it's pretty alarming for Argentina and SA. It's been like only a couple of players that can cross or pass at a decent level.

Anyway, as far as the game went.. Argentina where alright picked it up in the 2nd hal (even when they were down to 10 men) and got a deserved equalizer. Could've won it a had they finished their other chances. 

Was really impressed by Barco, Martinez and Cocheney when he came on.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Argentina just beat Bolivia 5-1... that had to be the most unimpressive 5-1 win in history. This Argentina team look horrible. Have some nice pieces but as a whole they have trouble making simple passes. 2 of their goalies were down to ****** goalkeeping and luck.


----------



## Savant

Okay so Liverpool gave about 5 youngsters that I feel have a legit chance at being first team players for LFC eventually. In alphabetical order the names that you will probably recognize would be: 

Alexander-Arnold
Ejaria
Ojo
Wilson
Woodburn

However. There is another. The have a 17 year old striker named Rhian Brewster who just made his debut at U23. I think that this kid could be their Rashford by next season. He has the best tool kit of any other striker at LFC youth level I have seen. 

Take a look here at an every touch video from u23 debut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgYkc95VE98


----------



## YNWA14

Brewster has a much higher ceiling (slight exaggeration, but definitely a higher ceiling) than Rashford, but he's very young. We'll see where he goes but he's in the same class as Woodburn as a talent.


----------



## Evilo

Maxime Lopez elected player of the month.


----------



## Juni

Curtinho said:


> Brewster has a much higher ceiling (slight exaggeration, but definitely a higher ceiling) than Rashford, but he's very young. We'll see where he goes but he's in the same class as Woodburn as a talent.




Dunno about that, I think Rashford's incredibly underrated because people initially went overboard on him after his hot start. He's so smooth and quick in his decision-making, did it all at 18 with little preparation (scarcely had any U21/U23 team football to his name) and did it for his country too.

I like Brewster, he was at Chelsea until he was 14, and I think he's got lots of positives, but I don't actually think he's in the same class as a Woodburn either. Woodburn has shades of Michael Owen in his game, whereas Brewster is a much bigger and stronger 16 year-old than Woodburn is, he reminds me of Sturridge a bit in his general gait and style. Also a small point about that, Ipswich are a Category 2 academy, Liverpool are an upper-end Category One academy (this is a cup match), so there's quite a chasm in overall ability on that pitch anyway, the sort that helps a debuting 16 year-old.

(Incidentally I recall having a debate with you about Woodburn a while ago where I wasn't quite as high on him then as you were, over time I'm conceding that one because the more I see of him the more I'm damn impressed. We'll see where this goes, but the fun is all in the debate  )


----------



## YNWA14

Aha definitely there's a lot to be considered. I have a really high opinion of Brewster. Not just because of the physical attributes but also because of his composure and work rate (so far). He has some nice tight control too, and isn't overly selfish (which I've always found Sturridge to be). I think if Sturridge were more direct and less selfish you'd have what I think Brewster can be (pre-injury Sturridge that is).

As far as Woodburn goes it's looking more and more likely that he's going to be converted to an attacking midfielder or attacking central mid. The maturity and decision making in his game stands out above pretty much anything else. He's really an incredible talent, too, but it's the way he thinks the game, how he moves and the space he creates that separates him from the rest. Despite the really impressive season Harry Wilson has had for my money, at 17, Woodburn is already easily our best u23 player (followed by TAA and Wilson).


----------



## Jeffrey

I think Woodburn has the talent but i'm not fully convinced on his physical tools. (He is a bit small and not the fastest)


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Is Mbappe a center-forward? Will he be sold this summer? And for how much? 

We might need an Auba replacement, and while Isak is a good prospect, I'm not sure he's ready to step in. Tuchel won't even yet put him in the squad. We might need a starting ready CF, unless we move Dembele to CF or something like that.


----------



## YNWA14

Jeffrey said:


> I think Woodburn has the talent but i'm not fully convinced on his physical tools. (He is a bit small and not the fastest)




I think his physical tools are fine. Suarez is no faster, probably slower. It also matters less in midfield, IMO (assuming that switch is made). Look at guys like Iniesta and Modric. Woodburn's brain, composure and touch are what will separate him from his peers. Even still though he's not even that small for a 17 year old.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Is Mbappe a center-forward? Will he be sold this summer? And for how much?
> 
> We might need an Auba replacement, and while Isak is a good prospect, I'm not sure he's ready to step in. Tuchel won't even yet put him in the squad. We might need a starting ready CF, unless we move Dembele to CF or something like that.




Can play on either wings or at CF.
Possible he gets sold, but only to a top 5 club IMO. With a crazy fee.
Or he'll stay one more year as a full time starter and rip Ligue 1. And then move for a crazy fee (that will seem less crazy).


----------



## Jeffrey

I never thought I would say that but moving out of Monaco to any team but Barcelona and Real Madrid is a step down or lateral move at best.
Monaco have a up and coming lineup young and talented enough to compete for the next decade. They have no rush to sell their most talented player (Mbappe) and they would probably gave him a nice fat contract to keep him around. That being said he needs to play more often.


----------



## bluesfan94

Jeffrey said:


> I never thought I would say that but moving out of Monaco to any team but Barcelona and Real Madrid is a step down or lateral move at best.
> Monaco have a up and coming lineup young and talented enough to compete for the next decade. They have no rush to sell their most talented player (Mbappe) and they would probably gave him a nice fat contract to keep him around. That being said he needs to play more often.




Bayern says hello.


----------



## Evilo

bluesfan94 said:


> Bayern says hello.



Not this season though.
Monaco has scored the most goals in Europe this year (all competitions). 100 goals. Same as Barcelona.
And they don't have the MSN.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Jeffrey said:


> I never thought I would say that but moving out of Monaco to any team but Barcelona and Real Madrid is a step down or lateral move at best.
> Monaco have a up and coming lineup young and talented enough to compete for the next decade. They have no rush to sell their most talented player (Mbappe) and they would probably gave him a nice fat contract to keep him around. That being said he needs to play more often.




Nah. Monaco is finishing chances at an extremely unsustainable rate. They're good but not this good. And as we've seen before, one good season isn't enough to elevate a club into the elite financially, or in prestige. Monaco is still clearly behind a handful of other clubs in those regards.


----------



## Jeffrey

Deficient Mode said:


> Nah. Monaco is finishing chances at an extremely unsustainable rate. They're good but not this good. And as we've seen before, one good season isn't enough to elevate a club into the elite financially, or in prestige. Monaco is still clearly behind a handful of other clubs in those regards.



There is literally no reason for any Monaco players to leave, unless they are deemed surplus to requirement. As mentioned they are a up and coming team and I don't care if you believe they are finishing chances at an unsustanable rate. They have legit skillful players all over the place, young and only getting better. They will surprise a lot of "bigger team".

If anything they are the Dortmund of the early Klopp era.

They have no reason to sell.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Jeffrey said:


> There is literally no reason for any Monaco players to leave. As mentioned they are a up and coming team and I don't care if you believe they are finishing chances at an unsustanable rate. They have legit skillful players all over the place, young and only getting better.
> 
> If anything they are the Dortmund of the early Klopp era.
> 
> They have no reason to sell.




Dortmund lost a key player every year but one of the past six since Klopp brought them to prominence. They sold their most prominent player after their first title year and again after their second title. Probably not the best example. 

Monaco may be better off financially now than Dortmund were then, but they still don't offer the wages of the Manchester clubs or the prestige/allure/continuing success of Bayern or Juve. Usually one or both of those things will make any player want to move.


----------



## gary69

There's no reason why with a couple of shrewd signings Monaco couldn't do one better than they did in 2004 and win the CL if stars align for them next season. Back then they beat the likes of Real Madrid and Chelsea on their way to the final.

I don't think likes of Germain and to a lesser extent Glik are players to be regular starters for a CL winning team, but of course they're fine squad players and depth starters in the league.

Also, it's doubtful whether Falcao can be a main striker to lead the club both in the league and CL next season. But he'd be great as an impact sub in the CL, no doubt.

So whith a couple of great signings, there's no doubt they'd be able to give anybody a run for their money. With the WC looming as well next season, Monaco's youngsters are probably better off staying for another season in that regard as well.

Obviously Monaco is a great city for any rich person to be a resident of, so a move there makes sense for many thinking beyond their playing careers.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> Can play on either wings or at CF.
> Possible he gets sold, but only to a top 5 club IMO. With a crazy fee.
> Or he'll stay one more year as a full time starter and rip Ligue 1. And then move for a crazy fee (that will seem less crazy).




Who's better, Mbappe or Dembele? And who's the next good player younger than them who maybe hasn't debuted yet or only has a few appearances who will be known soon?

We could use more French players, Dembele, Auba, Guerreiro have all been good buys from Ligue One.


----------



## phisherman

It would be nice to see Monaco keep their players. 

There are teams where you sometimes think what would happen if they kept all their players. For example if Southampton kept their players.

Maybe Monaco can replicate the class of 92 Manchester United.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Who's better, Mbappe or Dembele? And who's the next good player younger than them who maybe hasn't debuted yet or only has a few appearances who will be known soon?
> 
> We could use more French players, Dembele, Auba, Guerreiro have all been good buys from Ligue One.




It's tough to know which one is better. DembÃ©lÃ© has so far shown the most. MbappÃ© seems more like a sure thing to me. 
WIth MbappÃ©, the Henry comparisons are really spot on. He's been programmed to be a superstar since he's a kid.
DembÃ©lÃ© is more like a genius who you don't know what to expect next. His unpredictability is a huge asset.

I'll give some french names later today or tomorrow since our little keeper league has more or less finished our latest window.


----------



## Evilo

OK, here's a list of very nice prospects in L1 as of now :
GK :
Alban Lafont (Toulouse) : he's not even 18, has been a starter for more than a year. Totally impressive calm and efficiency. He's either hot and unbeatable or steady and a decent L1 goalie. At his age, it's incredible.

Thomas Didillon (Metz) : Already impressing everyone in his first L1 season. Some comparisons with Manuel Neuer, in his style and looks (very tall). Mature beyond his years.

Anthony Maisonnial (St Etienne) : 3rd goalie on his team but highly touted for years. He has one L1 game under his belt, but what a game. AMAZING. Lack of sample size obviously, but he could make Ruffier expandable next summer.

CB : 
Diop (Toulouse) : Extremely steady CB, while being a threat on offensive set plays. He plays like a vet back there.

Malang Sarr (Nice) : 17 and full time starter. I might say one of the best CBs in the league (like Diop), but at his age, it seems crazy. But so far this season, he has been on. Compare him to a guy like Mammana, who has ups and downs (like young CBs), Sarr seems like a future star.

Gnagnon (Rennes) : power and calm. Guy never panicks and is cementing himself as the future of his team. He jumps very high and can help a lot of set plays.

Diakhaby (Lyon) : Very tall CB, was a full time starter with Lyon for most of the year. Prone to some mistakes still, but he's a mix of Sakho and Thuram (in style at least).

Fullbacks :
Almamy Toure (Monaco) : He's a RB that can play CB, excellent player, lots of efforts, taller than most RB, good crosses, excellent defensively.

Benjamin Mendy (Monaco) : Huge motor LB. Fast, strong, amazing crossing. Can be prone to some defensive mistakes still. Watch his temper too.

Djibril SidibÃ© (Monaco) : starter for the NT. One of the best FB in the game as of now IMO and can play LB too (his left foot is quite something).

Midfielders :
Sanson (OM) : well documented recently, very good B2B, great passer, high IQ.

Lopez (OM) : 19 year old midget, amazing passer, great dribbler, IMO, he's a future star. Tailor made for Barca.

Christopher Nkunku (PSG) : even more of a midget, but dynamic. High pressure on the opponents defense and high IQ. Has a very nice foot for passing and shooting.

Forwards :
Malcolm (Bordeaux) : Another small player, but magic left foot, big threat on direct FK. Nice dribbling in tight spaces.

Lemar (Monaco) : already a L1 star and NT player. Fantastic left foot (he too can score on FK), great passing and crossing, but more than anything, high IQ and team player.

MbappÃ© (Monaco) : Henry clone.

Amine Harit (Nantes) : best kept secret in L1. Only thing lacking from his game right now is end product. He is very dangerous, easily the most dangerous player on his team. Second in the league in made dribbles. But he has failed in the last 16 meters. That'll change with time and experience.

Blas (Guingamp) : can play CM or LM, high quality offensive player, again high IQ.

Yann Karamoh (Caen) : very quick and technical winger, dynamic, can do things at full speed.

Adama Diakhaby (Rennes) : A personnal favourite of mine, he's a quick dribbler, but fairly tall. Has some DembÃ©lÃ© in him, only less impressive. He creates danger everytime he has the ball.

Jonathan Ikone (PSG, on loan at Montpellier) : crazy quick dribbler. Can unsettle a defense on one move. He should have played more in the first hald, but Emery... well... so he's loaned to Montpellier and he came late in his first game and changed the outcome of that game. Quality prospect.

There are other names, but I'll keep them for now (because of the league we're playing in) and some are also much younger.


----------



## gary69

Moussa Sylla (another one from Monaco) has some nice stats in the youth CL, behind only Nkunku from French, I believe. He seems to be quite promising. Timothy Weah has scored a few goals as well for PSG, but hasn't played as much.

No English clubs in the last 16 of the youth CL, btw. Hard to judge the quality of some of the matches in the competition though, since the very best young players often seem to play at higher/men's level already. I thought Man City were quite good in a couple of matches I saw.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

gary69 said:


> No English clubs in the last 16 of the youth CL, btw. Hard to judge the quality of some of the matches in the competition though, since the very best young players often seem to play at higher/men's level already. I thought Man City were quite good in a couple of matches I saw.




Large part of this is because Chelsea didn't make the senior CL this year. They've won the UEFA Youth League the past two years.


----------



## Jeffrey

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Large part of this is because Chelsea didn't make the senior CL this year. They've won the UEFA Youth League the past two years.




Where are their youngsters? Why they never get a chance to show their talent with the main club?


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Jeffrey said:


> Where are their youngsters? Why they never get a chance to show their talent with the main club?




You know the sad, sad answer to this. The Chelsea loan-vortex has been great business, but terrible development.


----------



## Jeffrey

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> You know the sad, sad answer to this. The Chelsea loan-vortex has been great business, but terrible development.




Yes... But it's sad for these players (I know they get a lot of money).. One of them could be the next Dele Alli or Raheem Sterling if given a fair chance.


----------



## JimboA

delete


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

11 goals in 724 minutes as a 17/18 year old.


----------



## Epictetus

How's this Taiwo Awoniyi kid?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

The CONCACAF U20 Championship tournament is taking place the next few weeks.

There is an obvious lack of big names on the US team. All the noticeable names playing in Europe that people know aren't on the roster, almost all of them being a case of their club team not releasing them. 

The US team has the chance to be very strong down the middle, the team is iffy at the full-back and wing positions. The top US players to watch out for are Erik Palmer-Brown, Justen Glad and Jeremy Ebobisse. Palmer-Brown is probably the only really big name among the group. He's the captain, and maybe the best player at the tournament, certainly the US nominee for that title going into the tournament. He's a center-back by trade, but there have been rumors that he'll play as a defensive midfielder. Glad is also a center-back. He just completed a very successful season in 2016 with RSL in MLS where he started nearly all their games. He reads the game very well and is quick. Very reliable player. Ebobisse will be counted on for the goals, and he's produced them playing for the U20's since this group started playing for the U20's. He's a good goal scorer who can do all that is required of a CF.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

German posters, what's the latest on the Schalke trio Goretzka, Meyer, and Geis? I remember them being pretty hyped up, have they been developing alright?


----------



## cgf

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> German posters, what's the latest on the Schalke trio Goretzka, Meyer, and Geis? I remember them being pretty hyped up, have they been developing alright?




LeGo is developing well & should still become a NT starter, but Meyer has stagnated over the past season & a half. He's not showing the pace or quickness to play as a winger; but is lacking the final ball to thrive as a 10; and his shooting hasn't been enough at the senior level to play as a forward...like he did coming through the youth teams. Geis has been coming along, but he's still not much more than a long ball specialist at the 6 who fouls too much...like a poor man's Xhaka.


----------



## Savant

cgf said:


> LeGo is developing well & should still become a NT starter, but Meyer has stagnated over the past season & a half. He's not showing the pace or quickness to play as a winger; but is lacking the final ball to thrive as a 10; and his shooting hasn't been enough at the senior level to play as a forward...like he did coming through the youth teams. Geis has been coming along, but he's still not much more than a long ball specialist at the 6 who fouls too much...like a poor man's Xhaka.




I don't really rate positionless players like Meyer, regardless on talent.


----------



## Franck

JimboA said:


> Kevin Ackermann (2001) has been known for some people in the Swedish football community since there was talk of him joining Man City's academy at the age of 12. Lately, Benfica and Real Madrid are said to be interested in the 15-year-old to join their academies. Got to play 10 minutes in BK HÃ¤cken's first team friendly today against Midtjylland, which is why I thought he could be worth mentioning.
> 
> His physique is probably a reason why he's able to play against men this early, and it could be argued that it's been an advantage to him while playing against his peers (he was a Swedish and Nordic wrestling champion some years ago). I don't know how good he actually is. What I know is that he's incredibly competitive and mentally strong, and is also captain for the '01 national team. He is a central midfielder.




Would be poetic justice if some bigger club stole him from HÃ¤cken for peanuts just like HÃ¤cken stole the biggest talent in our youth team for peanuts recently.


----------



## cgf

Savant said:


> I don't really rate positionless players like Meyer, regardless on talent.




I can understand that, but Firmino & Rafael were position-less players before sticking as playmaking forwards; and Meyer hasn't gotten of much a chance playing up front. I think he'll have to leave Schalke, but I haven't given up on Meyer yet.


----------



## Savant

cgf said:


> I can understand that, but Firmino & Rafael were position-less players before sticking as playmaking forwards; and Meyer hasn't gotten of much a chance playing up front. I think he'll have to leave Schalke, but I haven't given up on Meyer yet.




That's fair but still not my cup of tea.


----------



## Juni

Salzburg spanked PSG 5-0 in the UEFA Youth League yesterday, now it bears noting that this PSG team isn't as strong as last year's runners-up but Salzburg have now dumped them and Man City out in the space of a fortnight and looked rampant in doing so. A team to watch for sure.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Juni said:


> Salzburg spanked PSG 5-0 in the UEFA Youth League yesterday, now it bears noting that this PSG team isn't as strong as last year's runners-up but Salzburg have now dumped them and Man City out in the space of a fortnight and looked rampant in doing so. A team to watch for sure.




One of their assistant coaches is a prominent hipster tactic blogger. I watched a bit of the match and they were very dominant. Nice to see Pep's ideas continue to spread through the German-speaking football world.


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> One of their assistant coaches is a prominent hipster tactic blogger. I watched a bit of the match and they were very dominant. Nice to see Pep's ideas continue to spread through the German-speaking football world.




I didn't know that. Good for him, those dudes at spielverlagerung really have done a great job of bringing more advanced understanding of tactics to the football fan world. Having them & konzeptfussball is truly a gift to this generation of football fans.


----------



## JimboA

delete


----------



## YNWA14

Mink Peeters with 2 nice goals for RM after coming on as a sub in the youth CL to set up a meeting with his former club Ajax in the quarter finals. Ajax have a really nice team as usual. The full quarters:

Real Madrid v Ajax
CSKA Moskva v Benfica
Barcelona v Porto
Salzburg v AtlÃ©tico Madrid


----------



## Luigi Habs

cgf said:


> I didn't know that. Good for him, those dudes at *spielverlagerung* really have done a great job of bringing more advanced understanding of tactics to the football fan world. Having them & *konzeptfussball* is truly a gift to this generation of football fans.




Now you need to tell us if you really wrote these yourself or had to google the full spelling


----------



## cgf

Luiginho said:


> Now you need to tell us if you really wrote these yourself or had to google the full spelling




I was born in Berlin (DDR) to a russian father & a german mother; I spent most of my summers as a kid with relatives in germany because both of my parents worked crazy hours; and I grew up speaking German, Russian & English. So I'll let you draw your own conclusions


----------



## Deficient Mode

Luiginho said:


> Now you need to tell us if you really wrote these yourself or had to google the full spelling




They're pretty easy words to remember if you know German, and you'd have to know German to enjoy most of their content.


----------



## bluesfan94

How would spielverlagerung be translated? Spiel is game or play and verlagerung is relocation, right? It's probably an easy answer and I'm just being dumb.

KonzeptfuÃŸball should be pretty easy for someone who just speaks english. Konzept = concept; fuss(ÃŸ)ball = football = soccer


----------



## Deficient Mode

bluesfan94 said:


> How would spielverlagerung be translated? Spiel is game or play and verlagerung is relocation, right? It's probably an easy answer and I'm just being dumb.
> 
> KonzeptfuÃŸball should be pretty easy for someone who just speaks english. Konzept = concept; fuss(ÃŸ)ball = football = soccer




Change of play i.e. a ball to switch fields.


----------



## bluesfan94

Deficient Mode said:


> Change of play i.e. a ball to switch fields.




Yup, something obvious. I blame it on my German being rusty.


----------



## Savi

Curtinho said:


> The full quarters:
> 
> Real Madrid v Ajax
> CSKA Moskva v Benfica
> Barcelona v Porto
> Salzburg v AtlÃ©tico Madrid




BarÃ§a v Dortmund was a fun game. And this goal..


----------



## Luigi Habs

I'll sit and watch ppl overrating this kid for the rest of his life. 

Anyone still remembers Hachim Mastour?


----------



## Evilo

So apparently, MbappÃ©'s father is receiving non-stop phone calls and texts from "agents" and "teams" who want to sign his kid since mid-week and the City game.

Another proof the scouting in football is absolutely horrible. Only people who don't follow football closely have discovered MbappÃ©'s talents this week. When you consider each big team have mutiple scouts to cover Ligue 1 and international youth competitions, it's absolutely crazy the incompetence of football officials.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Luiginho said:


> I'll sit and watch ppl overrating this kid for the rest of his life.
> 
> Anyone still remembers Hachim Mastour?




How's Mastour doing at Zwolle?


----------



## Luigi Habs

The Abusement Park said:


> How's Mastour doing at Zwolle?




Very bad. He's lazy and just not good.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Luiginho said:


> Very bad. He's lazy and just not good.




The hype machine wins again.


----------



## Fulham

Very well taken Goal for Alphonso Davies of the Whitecaps in a MOTM performance in the CCL Quarter final against the NY Redbull

Crazy how he's become one of the Whitecaps best players so quickly and he doesn't even turn 17 till next season.


----------



## YNWA14

Have watched a bunch of Alphonso Davies...he's really impressive for his age and has potential to be an actual star I think. Needs the right coaching and development, but the MLS might be the perfect place for him to turn into a 'big fish' and gain the confidence to take the next step later on.


----------



## Fulham

Curtinho said:


> Have watched a bunch of Alphonso Davies...he's really impressive for his age and has potential to be an actual star I think. Needs the right coaching and development, but the MLS might be the perfect place for him to turn into a 'big fish' and gain the confidence to take the next step later on.




Yes he isn't an elite prospect "for the MLS" or "for canada" he's one of the best U18 players in the world


----------



## Cassano

Liam Millar - does he have high potential?


----------



## YNWA14

Fulham said:


> Yes he isn't an elite prospect "for the MLS" or "for canada" he's one of the best U18 players in the world




Agreed.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> The CONCACAF U20 Championship tournament is taking place the next few weeks.
> 
> There is an obvious lack of big names on the US team. All the noticeable names playing in Europe that people know aren't on the roster, almost all of them being a case of their club team not releasing them.
> 
> The US team has the chance to be very strong down the middle, the team is iffy at the full-back and wing positions. The top US players to watch out for are Erik Palmer-Brown, Justen Glad and Jeremy Ebobisse. Palmer-Brown is probably the only really big name among the group. He's the captain, and maybe the best player at the tournament, certainly the US nominee for that title going into the tournament. He's a center-back by trade, but there have been rumors that he'll play as a defensive midfielder. Glad is also a center-back. He just completed a very successful season in 2016 with RSL in MLS where he started nearly all their games. He reads the game very well and is quick. Very reliable player. Ebobisse will be counted on for the goals, and he's produced them playing for the U20's since this group started playing for the U20's. He's a good goal scorer who can do all that is required of a CF.




USA won this tournament in PK's over Honduras after losing the first game of the tournament. They rattled off 5 wins in a row after that only giving up three goals over those five games to win the tournament. Mexico, Costa Rica and Honduras also qualify for the U20 World Cup. The Golden Boot went to Ronaldo Cisneros of Mexico with 6. USA's leading scorer was Brooks Lennon was 4, he was tied second in the Golden Boot standings. Klinsmann Jr. won the Golden Glove. Erik Palmer-Brown won the Golden Ball. The USA should now get to bring a lot of European based players to the final tournament in May. Most were unavailable for the qualifying tournament.


----------



## Tuggy

Fulham said:


> Yes he isn't an elite prospect "for the MLS" or "for canada" he's one of the best U18 players in the world




I know he's not officially a Canadian citizen but I assume that's in the plans?


----------



## Fulham

Tuggy said:


> I know he's not officially a Canadian citizen but I assume that's in the plans?




Yes, He has been contacted by the CSA and they are speeding up his citizenship application, as there are complications with his parents immigration paperwork, and he falls under them.

Luckily the only other NT he is eligible for is Liberia, but he will be a Capped CMNT player soon


----------



## Deficient Mode

RB Salzburg continue their run in the Youth League, making a comeback to beat Barcelona 2-1. They will play the winner of Real Madrid and Benfica in the final.


----------



## Evilo

Stupid ignorant french media are hyping Sanson like crazy since he's signed for OM, saying he's the best thing since sliced bread.
OMG he's great!
Well DUH! For how many years have I told everyone? It's as if a player can only be good if he plays for Paris, Marseille, Lyon or Monaco.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> Stupid ignorant french media are hyping Sanson like crazy since he's signed for OM, saying he's the best thing since sliced bread.
> OMG he's great!
> Well DUH! For how many years have I told everyone? It's as if a player can only be good if he plays for Paris, Marseille, Lyon or Monaco.




You should work for french media


----------



## Evilo

Haha Carine Galli just said this morning PSG should try to target the Europa League....lol
Carine they don't PLAY the EL!


----------



## Jeffrey

Evilo said:


> Stupid ignorant french media are hyping Sanson like crazy since he's signed for OM, saying he's the best thing since sliced bread.
> OMG he's great!
> Well DUH! For how many years have I told everyone? It's as if a player can only be good if he plays for Paris, Marseille, Lyon or Monaco.



You seem triggered. Nobody talk about him outside France. The only names people outside France are talking about right now are all Monaco players.


----------



## Juni

Deficient Mode said:


> RB Salzburg continue their run in the Youth League, making a comeback to beat Barcelona 2-1. They will play the winner of Real Madrid and Benfica in the final.




Have been the best side in the competition, so whilst by name and reputation it's a surprise, by performance it's wholly justified.


----------



## Evilo

Jeffrey said:


> You seem triggered. Nobody talk about him outside France. The only names people outside France are talking about right now are all Monaco players.



Sigh...


----------



## Evilo

MbappÃ© first player of the 21st century to reach 14 goals in a major league at age 18.


----------



## Cory Trevor

Evilo said:


> Sigh...




He's right though.


----------



## Evilo

Cory Trevor said:


> He's right though.



Didn't mean he wasn't. I mean it's terrible in today's world that a guy like Sanson, who's been good for a while now gets "discovered" by the french media when he signs (and performs) with OM and is unknown abroad.
And I'm sure plenty of CLUBS don't know who he is since he signed for OM for such a low fee.
It's like they don't even watch the games that concern other teams.
There really is a big scouting problem (like I said about MbappÃ© previously).


----------



## Savi

Deficient Mode said:


> RB Salzburg continue their run in the Youth League, making a comeback to beat Barcelona 2-1. They will play the winner of Real Madrid and Benfica in the final.




They won the whole thing. Came back to beat Benfica 2-1 in the final


----------



## YNWA14

Watching the u23s a lot it's hard to say who has a higher ceiling between Brewster and Woodburn. One thing is for sure though they both can be world class players if their development continues as it has. The work rate, intelligence and skill all seem to be there for both of them. I think Woodburn is smarter and better suited to midfield but Brewster has the more imposing physical gifts. Both extremely exciting talents, and they link up wonderfully together.


----------



## cgf

Savi said:


> They won the whole thing. Came back to beat Benfica 2-1 in the final




That RB youth pipeline is just disgustingly well funded. Leipzig's youth teams are truly top notch as well.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Savi said:


> They won the whole thing. Came back to beat Benfica 2-1 in the final




First UEFA trophy ever won by an Austrian club as well. Fun team with some very talented players.


----------



## gary69

Deficient Mode said:


> First UEFA trophy ever won by an Austrian club as well. Fun team with some very talented players.




Rapid Wien, if you count Intertoto...


----------



## Evilo

If some of you have time to spare tonight, there's the PSG/Monaco Cup semifinal, but more interestingly (prospect wise) is that Monaco is going to start their youth team more or less to rest the team. The average age expected is 20 years old for the field players and that's counting Germain.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> If some of you have time to spare tonight, there's the PSG/Monaco Cup semifinal, but more interestingly (prospect wise) is that Monaco is going to start their youth team more or less to rest the team. The average age expected is 20 years old for the field players and that's counting Germain.




You said I don't watch French football though and you can never be proven wrong






Also, Dortmund-Bayern match overlaps.


----------



## Evilo

Deficient Mode said:


> You said I don't watch French football though and you can never be proven wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, Dortmund-Bayern match overlaps.



Clearly, given your Monaco comments


----------



## Evilo

4 starters with zero pro football minute.


----------



## Evilo

Guys to absolutely keep an eye on :
Cardona, Diallo, N'Doram.


----------



## bluesfan94

Wish the game was on here. Already using my laptop to watch Arsenal.


----------



## Evilo

Not missing much. The old goalie backup is costing the youngsters big time. That and another Cavani wonder goal.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

No offense Evilo, but I looked through the players who played, they seem like a bunch of nobodies. They weren't exactly the best of Monaco's academy, just the middle of the pack from the B team aged players who don't already play with the first team like Mbappe, Cardona, Toure, Diallo, etc. Its not like they sent the next Mbappe out there.


----------



## Evilo

Well, MbappÃ© isn't exactly a talent you find every year 

Cardona has barely played at all this year and he's a nice talent. Diallo is a great talent at CB, possibly a future NT player IMO.
N'Doram is highly rated but didn't shine in this game.

Monaco was too weak to build much of anything so it was a hard game to judge, but I can tell you some of these guys will one day shine in pro football.


----------



## Juni

Is N'Doram Japhet's son?


----------



## Evilo

Yep !


----------



## SchwenningerWildWing

Evilo, my team Moenchengladbach acquired Mickael Cuisance from Nantes today, can you tell me anything about him?


----------



## Evilo

From Nancy, not Nantes.
U18 NT, highly touted and was seeked by tons of EPL teams. Kinda surprised he signed with GB tbh, but maybe he was promised some playing time, in which case it's a smart move for everyone involved.
He's really an 8, with passing as his best asset.


----------



## SchwenningerWildWing

Thanks. Yes Nancy , not Nantes, got it mixed up


----------



## Evilo

No worries


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Pochettino claiming that Onomah and Carter-Vickers will get more minutes next season. Also that Marcus Edwards and Kaziah Sterling will be in the squad. Edwards contract runs out in 2018 so Poch better please him too.


----------



## cgf

Abouchabaka & Arp score to help the german u17s turn around a deficit to the Dutch and secure their spot in the SF against Spain, as well as their place at the U17 WC. Only seen clips, but in them Abouchabaka looked like his typical slippery self. Apparently the team really struggled with the dutch strength & physicality in the first half, before our superior skill decided things in the second.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

TopKex said:


> Pochettino claiming that Onomah and Carter-Vickers will get more minutes next season. Also that Marcus Edwards and Kaziah Sterling will be in the squad. Edwards contract runs out in 2018 so Poch better please him too.




Do you think Pochettino is telling the truth when it comes to Carter-Vickers? I don't think he is. For the USA's sake, I'd rather Carter-Vickers leave immediately, and find himself playing time. He barely played at all this season.


----------



## bluesfan94

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Do you think Pochettino is telling the truth when it comes to Carter-Vickers? I don't think he is. For the USA's sake, I'd rather Carter-Vickers leave immediately, and find himself playing time. He barely played at all this season.




I mean, he's also young and Tottenham was pushing for a title. A loan would be fine but I don't see the need for him to leave Spurs. I'm sure he's gaining valuable playing time.


----------



## Live in the Now

Young defenders should never be loaned once they get to fourth on the depth chart. They need to train with the players they are going to partner with.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

bluesfan94 said:


> I mean, he's also young and Tottenham was pushing for a title. A loan would be fine but I don't see the need for him to leave Spurs. I'm sure he's gaining valuable playing time.




Tottenham has better and more experienced CB's who take up the playing time, but for the sake of his career, he needs playing time. He played 540 minutes of club football this season between all levels. A 19 year old who's still developing his game needs more than that. One season of that is not catastrophic, but I can't think two seasons will do a player of that age much good. I'm not sure this role again next season is a good plan. If he plays more, thats one thing. If not, I think a loan or a permanent transfer should be considered. Sometimes the opportunity to usurp others does not come, and you have to look elsewhere. Thats football.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

I absolutely think that Carter-Vickers will be getting more time next season. No reason for me to believe he wouldn't. 

As for loans, Poch aint too happy about the idea. He believes that they benefit more from training with the team, where he can monitor them and make sure they don't slack and not become influenced by other managers. Hence why our squad is the youngest in the PL. Plenty of molding to be done with young players. If Poch sends you out on loan your future within the club is doubtful.


----------



## Live in the Now

Klopp feels the same way about loans as Pochettino. 



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Tottenham has better and more experienced CB's who take up the playing time, but for the sake of his career, he needs playing time. He played 540 minutes of club football this season between all levels. A 19 year old who's still developing his game needs more than that. One season of that is not catastrophic, but I can't think two seasons will do a player of that age much good. I'm not sure this role again next season is a good plan. If he plays more, thats one thing. If not, I think a loan or a permanent transfer should be considered. Sometimes the opportunity to usurp others does not come, and you have to look elsewhere. Thats football.




Not really. I think people's views of loans and young players are a little skewed. I believe teams should only loan players out in two scenarios.

1. They think they're not going to be good enough to ever play for them.

2. They don't want them at the club anymore.

Development loans are almost always total nonsense. I know there's some success stories, but they're few and far between. Carter-Vickers will learn a few things by leaving Tottenham. He will learn how to play relegation football and how to park the bus. All aspects of passing and reading the game from higher up the field will be crushed out of his game. 

You could loan him out to a Championship side, but a top Championship side will rarely trust him and have no interest in developing his game, and he will never make it back to Tottenham from there. After all, how many of the players Chelsea's had that looked like great talents ever made it back there? With defenders it's even more true. Rekik and Ilori never made it back. I also remember people saying similar things about Varane needing to be loaned. Of course Carter-Vickers is no Varane, but like...how would he have ever learned how to play at Real Madrid if they loaned him to Deportivo? They just can't.

If you can get Carter-Vickers playing for a top team every week like Toni Kroos did, then great. But you won't.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Martinez out for Argentina's U20 world cup squad... knee injury. That's a big loss for them, he was basically their offence.


----------



## cgf

If a kid is good enough and he's sent to the right team, the club he's loaned to will use him like Kroos, Christensen, and Kramer.


----------



## cgf

Well our u17s went out on pens against Spain. Though we controlled the ball well for long stretches, Mbom's absence was clearly felt as the team had no way to move the ball into the final third without resorting to the wings. Which left Abouchabaka really isolated when he'd get the ball and Arp was starved of service.

Cetin recycled possession well but didn't show enough of the incisive impulses that are expected of a talent like him.

Yeboah and Awuku both were able to dribble past Spanish defenders on the wing, but Yeboah didn't create enough from these openings he was able to force and Awuku came on too late to capitilize on our early possession dominance.

Anyway, the team qualified for WC despite missing key figures like Kuhn and Mbom


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo, is Gouiri as good as I'm reading he is?


----------



## Evilo

Yes. And probably more.


----------



## YNWA14

Still extremely young as well but Jadon Sancho looks incredible. I was mostly watching for Brewster but Sancho stands out a class above the rest.


----------



## Savant

Curtinho said:


> Still extremely young as well but Jadon Sancho looks incredible. I was mostly watching for Brewster but Sancho stands out a class above the rest.




Had the same observation. I think Brewster is a great talent but Sancho is the blue chipper in the pool.


----------



## Live in the Now

Curtinho said:


> Still extremely young as well but Jadon Sancho looks incredible. I was mostly watching for Brewster but Sancho stands out a class above the rest.




I was waiting for someone to mention him on here.

Yes, he is a different class. People will be bigging him up like crazy over the next few years.


----------



## phisherman

Live in the Now said:


> I was waiting for someone to mention him on here.
> 
> Yes, he is a different class. People will be bigging him up like crazy over the next few years.




There are already teams trying sign him away from Man City. Doubt it happens though.


----------



## YNWA14

I wouldn't be surprised if he got time with the City first team next year. Guardiola has never been shy about playing youngsters if they're good enough -- and he certainly looks like he's got the talent, and he's not physically slight either.

Although Celtic are reportedly after him and that wouldn't be a bad place for him to go either, at all.


----------



## Live in the Now

He could actually play for City right now or at least for half the season. And yes, even though he was 16 years old.


----------



## Cassano

Remember everyone hyping up Gedion Zelalem? ���


----------



## cgf

DrRecchi said:


> Remember everyone hyping up Gedion Zelalem? ���




Didn't he have a strong season? After the way Arsenal just f***ed up with Gnabry, I wouldn't be in such a rush to give up on Zelalem just because he to isn't breaking through with that club.

Sucks for American fans that he re-upped with Arsenal instead of moving to a club like Werder, Gladbach or Hoffenheim.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

DrRecchi said:


> Remember everyone hyping up Gedion Zelalem? ���




To be fair, it was for good reason. He has wonderful technique, ability to create space and ability to see passes. He just doesn't have much else, and has no directness in his approach. Everything he tries to do is east-west.


----------



## Alex Jones

Live in the Now said:


> He could actually play for City right now or at least for half the season. And yes, even though he was 16 years old.



Pep went pretty hard last summer going for wingers, not sure where he would fit.


----------



## Cassano

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> To be fair, it was for good reason. He has wonderful technique, ability to create space and ability to see passes. He just doesn't have much else, and has no directness in his approach. Everything he tries to do is east-west.




He was loaned to a 2nd tier Scottish team and was benched there. The writing was on the wall.



cgf said:


> Didn't he have a strong season? After the way Arsenal just f***ed up with Gnabry, I wouldn't be in such a rush to give up on Zelalem just because he to isn't breaking through with that club.
> 
> Sucks for American fans that he re-upped with Arsenal instead of moving to a club like Werder, Gladbach or Hoffenheim.




Injuries ****ed over Gnabry.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Didn't he have a strong season? After the way Arsenal just f***ed up with Gnabry, I wouldn't be in such a rush to give up on Zelalem just because he to isn't breaking through with that club.
> 
> Sucks for American fans that he re-upped with Arsenal instead of moving to a club like Werder, Gladbach or Hoffenheim.




No, he had an awful season. Bench player in the Dutch second division. It doesn't matter much for American fans as most have not expected much from him for awhile now. At the time Wenger was saying that they got rid of Fabregas because they had Zelalem, people were really hopeful that he was a special player, but as fans saw him play more and more, they realized he wasn't that good, and that they were fooled by his style over the substance of his full play over 90 minutes that highlight videos don't show. But sure, if he turned into a good player, it'd be a welcome bonus.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

DrRecchi said:


> He was loaned to a 2nd tier Scottish team and was benched there. The writing was on the wall.




Yeah, I think that was it for most people. For some, it was even earlier. 

I was referring to the early hype though when he was 16 or 17. It wasn't only fans, it was Wenger, being in and around the Arsenal first team at 16 and 17, these videos people saw, occasional bursts of play against teams who park the bus and give him a year to pick passes. In the end, thats not enough to become a top player. Many players flash potential, and it fools fans. He was one who did that.


----------



## Live in the Now

DrRecchi said:


> Injuries ****ed over Gnabry.




I take it you haven't watched him the last year.


----------



## phisherman

As mentioned before being loaned to West Brom wasted a year of development for Gnabry. 

He was actually supposed to be in the first team this year which is why they loaned out Campbell but he didn't want to extend his contract so he was sold. 

Zelalam can't handle the physicality of the game which is why he hasn't succeeded yet.

cgf where did you hear he extended?


----------



## cgf

I don't remember, but there was some rumors about BMG being interested in bringing him in on a free over the winter before some articles said that this ended when he extended with Arsenal.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Yeah, I think that was it for most people. For some, it was even earlier.
> 
> I was referring to the early hype though when he was 16 or 17. It wasn't only fans, it was Wenger, being in and around the Arsenal first team at 16 and 17, these videos people saw, occasional bursts of play against teams who park the bus and give him a year to pick passes. In the end, thats not enough to become a top player. Many players flash potential, and it fools fans. He was one who did that.




He was also a pivotal player on German youth NTs where he showed nice incisiveness with his passing. Disappointing if that's been beaten out of him, but not shocking. 

Gnabry is a much more physical and direct player; so the English style wasn't as contradictory and so wouldn't have been as much of an issue for his development as it would be for a more elegant player like Zelalem.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I figured I might as well update my list from last year. 

2016: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=118365381&postcount=163
2015:http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=100037677&postcount=636

I'll stick to those eligible for US youth teams, which are those born 1997 and after. And then I'll do a top 3 for goalies, and add a few younger players. I haven't seen enough of players born after 2000 to properly rank them.

1. Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund-1998): Very well rounded attacker who does everything well. Others might have higher ceilings as they might have potential, but he has easily the highest floor. Probably going to be a CAM long-term, but mostly plays LW or RW right now.
2. Erik Palmer-Brown (Sporting Kansas City-1997): He's had a few pitfalls with injuries and club situations that aren't his fault, but has as high potential as any US player there is. Tall, fast, good on the ball, aggressive, good defender. Mostly a CB, can play DM.
3. Andrew Carleton (Atlanta United-2000): Most offensively skilled attacker on this list. Human highlight reel who usually plays LW, but can play RW or CAM. Has been a prodigy for years, and has done nothing to damage that reputation. Only thing standing in his way is average speed. 
4. Haji Wright (Schalke-1998): A striker who was promoted to the first team today, along with #5 on my list. Has a size, speed, technique, goal scoring combination that very few match, but sometimes struggles with reading of the game, although its improved a lot already.
5. Weston McKennie (Schalke-1998): Also promoted to the first team today. Has had a meteoric rise in the last year going from FC Dallas U18's to Schalke first team. Versatile CM, mostly B2B, very athletic, good dribbler, good passer of the ball, exceptional in the air and tackle. Consistent performer. 
6. Cameron Carter-Vickers (Tottenham-1997): Really good defensive CB for a player his age. Very rarely does he make any defensive errors. Incredibly strong and good in the air, despite only being 6'0. Built like a linebacker.
7. Justen Glad (Real Salt Lake-1997): This is where I believe the talent drops off some. Glad is a little lower ceiling, but he's so steady. Reads the game exceptionally well, very mobile, good passer, decent size and aerial ability along with very mature defending as a CB. Plays a bigger role for his club team than any player on this list.
8. Josh Perez (Fiorentina-1998): Inverted winger who plays on the right, and likes to cut in on his left. Very skilled, quick, good dribbler. Can score or assist plays. Debuted for Fiorentina first team earlier this season.
9. Paxton Pomykal (FC Dallas-1999): A #10 with exceptional soccer IQ. Very good passer of the ball, and has excellent technique on long shots, as well as scoring inside the box. Not the best dribbler, but good enough. Has played as a B2B mid and RW before, but I only like his play as a CAM.
10. Chris Gloster (US U17 National Team-2000): The New York Red Bulls product currently playing in the US residency program is a very athletic and good defensive LB. He shows defensive smarts well beyond his years and has good pace going forward. 
11. Josh Sargent (US U17 National Team-2000): Strong center-forward who has improved leaps and bounds the last year. Has added some athleticism to become an average athlete. Very good hold up play, hard worker off the ball, and can score goals with his feet or head. Recently named to U20 World Cup team, youngest since Adu.
12. Tyler Adams (New York Red Bulls-1999): Crazy energy from a defensive midfield position. N'Golo Kante-like in his approach to the game. Seems like an early maturer from all I've seen, so I worry if there's more to his game, but right now, he's starting in MLS as an 18 year old for a good team. 
13. Tommy Redding (Orlando City-1997): A mobile and good passing CB who has put in some very nice performances in MLS the last few years. Has struggled at times with physicality and aerial marking, but has been improving in these areas. Reliable performer in a US shirt. 
14. Nick Taitague (Schalke U19-1999): The third of the US Schalke trio. Taitague has exceptional ball control and feet. He operates really well in small spaces, and has the ability to score and assist goals. Deceptively good dribbler. Operates best as a CAM, although he can play on either flank.
15. Marco Farfan (Portland Timbers-1998): Has come out of nowhere to put in some really nice performances for the Timbers first team, although he's lost his place of late. A LB who is very technically adept, along with underrated athleticism, and pretty good defensive play for a player his age playing against professionals.
16. Jeremy Ebobisse (Portland Timbers-1997): Has had a very rough go of late after a poor U20 qualifying tournament and little MLS playing time, although there is still potential in his game. He's a strong CF who is a very good finisher, along with having a decent hold up game and good feet.
17. Marlon Fossey (Fulham U23-1998): I've been very surprised about his game. A technically skilled RB who also is very fast down the right side of the field. He has occasional defensive lapses, but he's made strides defensively. Out of contract in the summer, I suspect he'll be moving to a better club. 
18. Reggie Cannon (FC Dallas-1998): Athletic RB who likes to get forward with good enough ball skills. He's not yet debuted in MLS, probably due to the defensive side of the game, but I've seen improvements in his defensive play the last few years.
19. Brooks Lennon (Real Salt Lake-1997): He's done nothing but show well for the USA and RSL of late, but he's a little limited in what he can do. He can sniff out goals, and is good on set pieces, yet he leaves a little to be desired athletically and creatively. Can play on either flank or as a false 9.
20. Chris Durkin (DC United-2000): A physical central midfielder who is very responsible defensively, and is capable of starting the attack with good enough passing. He's among the more heralded players in his age group, yet lacks a little in the way of athleticism and dribbling for a CM. Also capable of playing CB.
21. Tim Weah (PSG U19-2000): A goal scoring attacker, best playing as a striker, although he can play as a winger. Very quick, with good feet and efficient finishing. Has struggled at times in a US shirt, doesn't even start in his US age group. He might benefit some in perception from his last name and his club stature, but he has talent. 
22. Gedion Zelalem (VVV Venlo via Arsenal-1997): A very technically skilled CM who creates space really well, showcases very nice ball control, and can pick passes when given space, but struggles with just about everything else. Might suffer in perception from being in the limelight for many years compared to some other players.
23. Mukwelle Akale (Villarreal C-1997): A small winger, also capable of playing CAM who is very fast and a very good dribbler. He is capable of scoring goals, and is a smart player, but needs to improve his passing. He has struggled some at Villarreal since he joined the club.
24. Derrick Jones (Philadelphia Union-1997): A towering box to box CM who emigrated from Ghana to the USA at age 14, recently got his citizenship. Very athletic, fast, powerful CM who is able to help out defensively and offensively.
25. Matt Olosunde (Manchester United U23-1998): A versatile player, usually a RB, but has played LB, CB, LM and RM before. A tall and fast player who defends well, and has shown some skill going forward, at times. Might get his debut this weekend with Manchester United. Has been training with the first team of late.

Top 3 Keepers:

1. Justin Vom Steeg (Fortuna Dusseldorf-1997): A tall keeper who has very good reflexes and command of his box. Has shown well for many years at many different levels. He has sat on the bench for Dusseldorf's first team a few times this season, as their #3 keeper. 
2. Brady Scott (De Anza Force U18-1999): Another tall and athletic keeper who has good command of his box. Scott who has been a star for the U18 National Team has earned the interest of European scouts, and also has earned a spot as the 3rd keeper on the U20 National Team where he is the second youngest player.
3. Justin Garces (US U17 National Team-2000): Another talented Bradenton residency product. Garces is a very well-ronded keeper. He has excellent reflexes and very good distribution, along with decent height. He has improved a lot in recent years going from very talented but inconsistent to very good and consistent, one of the best performers for the U17 National Team. 

Younger players to watch for: 

Konrad de la Fuente (FC Barcelona U16-2001): An attacker capable of playing as a winger or striker who has lightning pace, excellent ball control, good attacking creativity and eye for goal. He is a top performer in his age group for club and country. 
John Hilton (LA Galaxy U16-2001): Hilton, nicknamed "Xuxuh", has been a talked about player for many years. He is an attacking RB reminiscent of Dani Alves. Hilton beats defenders easily with pace, skill, good passing and high soccer IQ. He is also a very good defender for a player his age. 
George Bello (Atlanta United U16-2002): A well rounded LB who is very athletic, very advanced defensively, and has good technical ability. He is capable of taking set pieces as he has a very good left foot, and recently was the only player in his US U15 age group to move up to the U16 age group for a U16 camp.
Giovanni Reyna (New York City FC U16-2002): Yes, he is Claudio's son. Gio is a silky smooth operator from the #10 position. He has excellent soccer IQ, very good playmaking, along with the ability to dribble past defenders with skill moves and the ability to score goals. Has really burst onto the scene for club and country even further in the last few months.


----------



## Evilo

Tim Weah is a good prospect. His youth league performances should prove that.


----------



## Savant

Good list. I think Perez is a little low though


----------



## Theon

16 year old Angel Gomes will most likely play for United on Sunday.


----------



## YNWA14

Theon said:


> 16 year old Angel Gomes will most likely play for United on Sunday.




Have heard about him for a while. Supposed to be quite the talent.


----------



## ecemleafs

Curtinho said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if he got time with the City first team next year. Guardiola has never been shy about playing youngsters if they're good enough -- and he certainly looks like he's got the talent, and he's not physically slight either.
> 
> Although Celtic are reportedly after him and that wouldn't be a bad place for him to go either, at all.




Who?


----------



## YNWA14

Jadon Sancho.


----------



## cgf

Does anyone know anything about Moreto CassamÃ¡? He's a Portuguese attacking midfielder about to sign with BMG from Porto's youth teams.


----------



## Cassano

Pretty much the worst thing to happen to a football player bar an amputation.


----------



## cgf

Here's the note on german youth talents I keep just for myself ranked in how much they intrigue me...haven't updated it in a minute, but I should do so before next season starts.

* denotes prospects who's development I'm skeptical about, either due to attitude, injuries, the club they're at, or my seeing them at a different position than the one they are being developed at...and who's position in my rankings is thus based mostly on pure potential/talent; i.e. Yesil & Kurt stayed very high up my rankings for quite a while with *'s beside their names because of the pure potential they had had. So Dadachov & Avdijaj would still be quite highly ranked if they hadn't switched nationalities.

*2000:*
Mbom (8, Werder)
Abouchabaka (10/W, Leipzig)
Arp (FW, Hamburg)
Kuhn (FW/W, Leipzig)
Cetin (6/8, Frankfurt)

Eidtner (W/FW/AM, Union...this may have a little with his club 
Kruger (FW/W, Leipzig)
G. Can (CB, Bochum)
Awuku (W/FW, Holstein Kiel)
Yeboah (W, Wolfsburg)

*1999:*
Havertz (10/FW/W/8, Leverkusen)
Maier (6/8, Hertha)
G.L. Itter (LB, Wolfsburg)
Akkaynak (8/6, Leverkusen)
Schreck (10/8, Leverkusen)

Hanraths (CB, Gladbach)
Y. Otto (FW/W, Hoffenheim)
Dardai (W/10, Hertha)
Amade (RB/RW, Hoffenheim)
Bapoh (10, Bochum)
Tillman (W/10, Bayern)

*1998:*
Eggestein (FW, Werder)
Barkok (8/10/W, Frankfurt)
Geiger (6/8, Hoffenheim)
Passlack (RB/RWB/RW, Dortmund)
Gul (CB/6, Dusseldorf)

Janelt* (6/8, Bochum)...though he's working his way to losing the *
Karakas (LB/CB, Schalke)
S. Ozcan (8/10/W, Koln)
Serra (FW, Dortmund)
Saglam (10/FW, Bochum)
Burnic (6/CB, Dortmund) / Dorsch (6, Bayern)

*1997:*
Henrichs (8/FB, Leverkusen)
Conde (8/10/W, Wolfsburg)
Mittelstadt (LB/LW, Hertha)
Bunjaki* (FW, Twente)...*sigh*
Neuhaus (8/10/W, 1860)
Horn (LB/LW/LCB, Wolfburg)

Ochs* (W/FW, Hoffenheim)...seems to have stagnated; time for a change of scenery?
Rinderknecht* (6/CB, Ingolstadt)...being developed as a midfielder though I see him as a CB
Uduokhai (CB, 1860)
Torunarigha (CB, Hertha)
Teuchert (FW, NÃ¼rnberg)
Ferati* (W, Dusseldorf)...progressing towards losing the *
Serdar (8/10/W, Mainz)

*1996:*
Sane (W/WB/FW, Manchester City)
Dahoud (8, Gladbach)
Tah (CB, Leverkusen)
Brandt (W/FW, Leverkusen)
Werner (FW, Leipzig)
Amiri (8/10, Hoffenheim)

Klostermann (RB/CB Leipzig)
Kehrer (CB, Schalke)
Oztunali (W/10, Mainz)
Baumgartl (CB, Stuttgart)
Christiansen (6/8, Ingolstadt)
Eggestein (6, Werder) / Anton (6/CB, Hannover)


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Found this interesting article about how Benfica develop their players. Couldn't find a more relevant thread nor could i be arsed to create a new one.

https://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2017/05/football-data-tech-best-players-in-the-world/


----------



## ecemleafs

Josh Sargent is the next Robert Lewandowski


----------



## Evilo

Statisitical analysis of Ousmane DembÃ©lÃ©'s season at age 19, compared to the rest of the BL and Europe, as well as other U21 european players.

https://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Act...ortmund-au-revelateur-des-statistiques/804164

Crazy.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Statisitical analysis of Ousmane DembÃ©lÃ©'s season at age 19, compared to the rest of the BL and Europe, as well as other U21 european players.
> 
> https://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Act...ortmund-au-revelateur-des-statistiques/804164
> 
> Crazy.




Definitely one of most impressive seasons by a young forward in Germany in recent memory. Werner's last season and Reus's final season at BMG were even more spectacular; but both of those came when those guys were 20/21, not 19.


----------



## Evilo

Love to see Sanson ranked that high in the assist category.


----------



## bluesfan94

ecemleafs said:


> Josh Sargent is the next Robert Lewandowski




I never realized he was from St. Louis until recently.


----------



## gary69

Watched Cagliari's game against Milan, and the North Korean Han was quite good.

Speedy, good movement and capable of beating opponents one on one. Also seemed to be aware of his teammates' actions around him, which is always positive to see in a young player.

And he has already scored for them, being still few months shy of his 19th birthday. Couple of games is a very small sample size, but if he pans out, that's some impressive scouting (however they did it).


----------



## Evilo

France once again kicked Germany's ass in U16 (5-2). But the "funny" part is that Lyon's sensation Geubbels scored 3. Yes Geubbels. Against Germany.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> France once again kicked Germany's ass in U16 (5-2). But the "funny" part is that Lyon's sensation Geubbels scored 3. Yes Geubbels. Against Germany.




France not content to steal African footballing talent. Now they're stealing German footballing talent. Shame.


----------



## cgf

I didn't watch this match but our u16s have some interesting talents. I'm intrigued by what I've seen of Bayern's Oliver Batista Meier & Werder's Keanu Schneider; while I've heard good things about Pohlmann & Hartmann. Dunno if they played in this match, but any thoughts on these kids evilo?


----------



## Evilo

Didn't see the game so I can't tell you.
I've known for Geubbels for a while, and when I saw he scored 3 on Germany... well, that's one heck of a black humor possbility here.


----------



## Alex Jones

gary69 said:


> Watched Cagliari's game against Milan, and the North Korean Han was quite good.
> 
> Speedy, good movement and capable of beating opponents one on one. Also seemed to be aware of his teammates' actions around him, which is always positive to see in a young player.
> 
> And he has already scored for them, being still few months shy of his 19th birthday. Couple of games is a very small sample size, but if he pans out, that's some impressive scouting (however they did it).



Pretty sure he worked out/trialed for several european teams after the u17's.


----------



## Savant

Any Finns know anything about 16 year old Patrik Raitenen?


----------



## Evilo

Theo Hernandez didn't come as his latest youth selection. He didn't even make a phone call. 
His Instagram suggests he's having a good time at the beach.
Some media speculate he's targeting playing for Spain rather than France, even though he and his brother always said they wanted to play for France (and they played for France in every youth category).
Personally I don't mind him playing for Spain, he learnt most of his football there. Him not even phoning to explain his absence however, makes me gald he chose Spain.
His brother Lucas has already turned down Spain before.
We might see some France/Spain games with the two brothers in different team at some point, much like the Boatengs (who are step bros however).


----------



## ecemleafs

Celtic Football Club‏Verified account @celticfc 8m8 minutes ago
More
#CelticFC can announce that Karamoko Dembele has signed a @ScottishFA Youth Registration with the club

I think this just means celtic would get compensation if some team bought his family a mansion, gave them a job, and relocated a 14 year old to a new city to play for their youth teams.


----------



## jniklast

Evilo said:


> Theo Hernandez didn't come as his latest youth selection. He didn't even make a phone call.
> His Instagram suggests he's having a good time at the beach.
> Some media speculate he's targeting playing for Spain rather than France, even though he and his brother always said they wanted to play for France (and they played for France in every youth category).
> Personally I don't mind him playing for Spain, he learnt most of his football there. Him not even phoning to explain his absence however, makes me gald he chose Spain.
> His brother Lucas has already turned down Spain before.
> We might see some France/Spain games with the two brothers in different team at some point, much like the Boatengs (who are step bros however).




The Boatengs are half brothers (same father).


----------



## Evilo

I wrote "step" but meant "half" indeed.
Thanks for picking that up.


----------



## Evilo

And now Theo Hernandez is accused of sexual assault... 
Wonder if Spain still wants him now


----------



## Fulham

Alphonso Davies received Canadian citizenship, and his first call up for Canada today!!!

Wont be long till he's representing Canada with a major club


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Anyone know anything about Immanuel Pherai? He signed with Dortmund from AZ.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Juventus will open two academies in Russia. 

I don't see any Russians playing for Juve any time soon, but maybe this will help develop some kids to play domestically.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich




----------



## cgf

Surprising to see Brandt isn't higher. I found his form last season more impressive than Sane, Pulisic, Coman, or either of Draxler's teenage seasons.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> Surprising to see Brandt isn't higher. I found his form last season more impressive than Sane, Pulisic, Coman, or either of Draxler's teenage seasons.




I'm pretty sure he had a slow start to 2015-16 before exploding in the second half, which probably cost him in the overall list. Not much between 4 and 10 though.


----------



## Evilo

No MbappÃ© on the list even though he had the best goals/minute season? This graph isn't right.
And I noticed MbappÃ©, there might be others.


----------



## Evilo

Looked quickly, MbappÃ© has 15 goals and 8 assists in 1498 minutes, and that's only in L1 (he scored a goal a game in CL).
That's 1.4 per 90 minutes.


----------



## Deficient Mode

List doesn't include strikers.

Also it is expected goals+assists not actual goals+assists.


----------



## Asiantuntija

Joel Pohjanpalo 185 minutes, 6 goals with Bayern Leverkusen this season. Going to be their top goalscorer next season.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Asiantuntija said:


> Joel Pohjanpalo 185 minutes, 6 goals with Bayern Leverkusen this season. Going to be their top goalscorer next season.




Zero chance


----------



## Asiantuntija

Deficient Mode said:


> Zero chance




We will see. How many times you've seen Danger in the field?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Asiantuntija said:


> We will see. How many times you've seen Danger in the field?




Can't score if you sit on the bench the whole season


----------



## Evilo

Deficient Mode said:


> List doesn't include strikers.
> 
> Also it is expected goals+assists not actual goals+assists.




MbappÃ© played half his minutes on the wing 
Expected?


----------



## bottomofthefoodchain

Evilo said:


> France once again kicked Germany's ass in U16 (5-2). But the "funny" part is that Lyon's sensation Geubbels scored 3. Yes Geubbels. Against Germany.




Poor kid


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> MbappÃ© played half his minutes on the wing
> Expected?




I thought he was primarily a center forward or close to it.

Expected goals just compiles average shot locations, the type of shot, and where the pass that led to the shot came from to determine how often a goal was scored in that situation on average over a large sample. A given shot from a particular location is assigned a value between 0 and 1 according to how often it is converted on average. You can read more here: http://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnatio...hot-matrix-i-shot-location-and-expected-goals


----------



## Evilo

That's pretty bad.
So to hype up Pulisic this guy used stats about "potential" goals and assists, not real ones and he managed to let strikers out of it (and didn't mention it on the stat post), included wingers with midfielders (as if Ronaldo wasn't a striker really) and kept MbappÃ© out of it in order to not kill the stat sheet.

Wow 

EDIT : MbappÃ© played most of the first part of the season as a winger replacing Bernardo and Lemar late in games. He played striker down the stretch (since march).


----------



## Ajacied

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Anyone know anything about Immanuel Pherai? He signed with Dortmund from AZ.




AZ's academy have been pooping out quality prospects for a while now. Manuel is a very good '01 prospect. Followed him this past season since Ajax were after him. 

Midfielder who likes to attack, but is very mature for his age and is a pretty complete package. Very good drive forward and scores easily. Can also play on the right wing. 

Not sure Dortmund is the right step; though. Not very fond of 16 year olds moving abroad. The Eredivisie is the perfect place to develop yourself.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> That's pretty bad.
> So to hype up Pulisic this guy used stats about "potential" goals and assists, not real ones and he managed to let strikers out of it (and didn't mention it on the stat post), included wingers with midfielders (as if Ronaldo wasn't a striker really) and kept MbappÃ© out of it in order to not kill the stat sheet.
> 
> Wow




lol. You use expected goals because it gives you a better idea how repeatable a performance is. Is a player actually generating dangerous chances or is he riding a wave of hot finishing?

And where do you see Ronaldo on that list?


----------



## Evilo

Deficient Mode said:


> lol. You use expected goals because it gives you a better idea how repeatable a performance is. Is a player actually generating dangerous chances or is he riding a wave of hot finishing?
> 
> And where do you see Ronaldo on that list?




It doesn't give you a better idea. What gives you a better idea is how a guy PERFORMS, not how he *could perform*. That's how some people thought Monaco's season was a hot streak all year long 

Ronaldo : my point was that he would be a winger in that kind of stat graph. Not selecting strikers is not understanding football. Some wingers have a scoring role, others don't.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> It doesn't give you a better idea. What gives you a better idea is how a guy PERFORMS, not how he *could perform*. That's how some people thought Monaco's season was a hot streak all year long
> 
> Ronaldo : my point was that he would be a winger in that kind of stat graph. Not selecting strikers is not understanding football. Some wingers have a scoring role, others don't.




You're right. This was exactly why people thought Monaco's season was a hot streak. They were outperforming expected goals by something like 2 to 1. No club has ever come close to that over a whole season. My impression from reading his posts is that individual players rarely exceed 1.5 goals to expected goals over a season. So yeah, there is reason to be skeptical of Monaco long-term. As I've said all along, it may not happen in the same year, but it will happen eventually. Also again, that doesn't mean they are bad. They just scored more goals than they probably normally would in an average season even with the same good finishers.

Cristiano's style is a total anomaly among wingers. The article itself mentions that those charts only apply to non-strikers several times, and as it is indeed intended to situate Pulisic among other prominent teenagers of the past like him, it does make sense to compare him to players like him i.e. non-strikers. Not everything is about Mbappe. Other players can be praised as well.


----------



## Evilo

I never said everything was about MbappÃ© (in fact I said I knew about MbappÃ©, and there were probably others), just that this graph is completely flawed and directed to a single goal : hype up someone.

Stats shouldn't be used to hyping someone because you'll always find stat that go your way.

Here we are, discussing a stat about "potential" goals and assists, not real ones, on a stat sheet that includes midfielders and wingers (as if they were comparable BTW), but excludes guys that played wingers half the time. And with all those conditions, then YEAH ! it fits what we wanted.


----------



## cgf

Asiantuntija said:


> We will see. How many times you've seen Danger in the field?




I saw the gladbach game and part of another where he played. He won't outscore Volland, Brandt & Haivertz, even if Chicharito is sold.


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> You're right. This was exactly why people thought Monaco's season was a hot streak. They were outperforming expected goals by something like 2 to 1. No club has ever come close to that over a whole season. My impression from reading his posts is that individual players rarely exceed 1.5 goals to expected goals over a season. So yeah, there is reason to be skeptical of Monaco long-term. As I've said all along, it may not happen in the same year, but it will happen eventually. Also again, that doesn't mean they are bad. They just scored more goals than they probably normally would in an average season even with the same good finishers.
> 
> Cristiano's style is a total anomaly among wingers. The article itself mentions that those charts only apply to non-strikers several times, and as it is indeed intended to situate Pulisic among other prominent teenagers of the past like him, it does make sense to compare him to players like him i.e. non-strikers. Not everything is about Mbappe. Other players can be praised as well.




BMG of the past 4-5 years laughs at expected goals; they consistently outproduced their expected goals by a massive margin, especially with Raffael on the pitch...though I do think it's an interesting stat.



Evilo said:


> I never said everything was about MbappÃ© (in fact I said I knew about MbappÃ©, and there were probably others), just that this graph is completely flawed and directed to a single goal : hype up someone.
> 
> Stats shouldn't be used to hyping someone because you'll always find stat that go your way.
> 
> Here we are, discussing a stat about "potential" goals and assists, not real ones, on a stat sheet that includes midfielders and wingers (as if they were comparable BTW), but excludes guys that played wingers half the time. And with all those conditions, then YEAH ! it fits what we wanted.




It's a pretty common advanced stat now-a-days. It's not like he's talking about packing, which is still in its infancy.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> I never said everything was about MbappÃ© (in fact I said I knew about MbappÃ©, and there were probably others), just that this graph is completely flawed and directed to a single goal : hype up someone.
> 
> Stats shouldn't be used to hyping someone because you'll always find stat that go your way.
> 
> Here we are, discussing a stat about "potential" goals and assists, not real ones, on a stat sheet that includes midfielders and wingers (as if they were comparable BTW), but excludes guys that played wingers half the time. And with all those conditions, then YEAH ! it fits what we wanted.




Pulisic had good real production as well.



cgf said:


> BMG of the past 4-5 years laughs at expected goals; they consistently outproduced their expected goals by a massive margin, especially with Raffael on the pitch...though I do think it's an interesting stat.




They did. Not to nearly the same degree as Monaco.


----------



## Evilo

I didn't say Pulisic was bad by any means.
I could say this stat was made to hype up DembÃ©lÃ© as well, so it doesn't have to do with the player.
Just the intention.

That's why stat guys never win. They think everything's about "potential" stats and people who actually WATCH the games know better. This Monaco team was not on a hot streak, it was simply good.
Messi and Ronaldo have proven "potential" stats don't mean anything.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> I didn't say Pulisic was bad by any means.
> I could say this stat was made to hype up DembÃ©lÃ© as well, so it doesn't have to do with the player.
> Just the intention.
> 
> That's why stat guys never win. They think everything's about "potential" stats and people who actually WATCH the games know better. This Monaco team was not on a hot streak, it was simply good.
> Messi and Ronaldo have proven "potential" stats don't mean anything.




It gives more data points than just goals and assists since it assigns a value to every shot a player takes or assists on, rather than just goals which they score or assist. Of course stats people want larger sample sizes to get an idea if a player is likely to repeat his production, and to get a more precise value for how much danger he generated. Stats people also recognize that the ultimate aim is real goals.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Your other boy Dembele leads the stat. I posted that chart with the tweets instead of specifically the link to the article due to the two Dortmund players.

Pipe down Evilo. Not everything's about Mbappe.


----------



## Evilo

Way to miss the point


----------



## TravisR81

In the twitter thread linked, the author of the article states that "Bundesliga breaks 'em in earlier than anyone else" because "nah, it's cultural. They could push kids earlier in Ligue 1 / Serie A / La Liga. They just don't.".

Surely Ligue 1 would lead the way for youth minutes out of the top 5/6 leagues?


----------



## cgf

TravisR81 said:


> In the twitter thread linked, the author of the article states that "Bundesliga breaks 'em in earlier than anyone else" because "nah, it's cultural. They could push kids earlier in Ligue 1 / Serie A / La Liga. They just don't.".
> 
> Surely Ligue 1 would lead the way for youth minutes out of the top 5/6 leagues?




If you counted Ligue 1 produced talents in all of europes top leagues, no doubt. But it wouldn't be shocking if in any given Bundesliga season there are more youth minutes per club than in Ligue 1 alone.


----------



## Deficient Mode

TravisR81 said:


> In the twitter thread linked, the author of the article states that "Bundesliga breaks 'em in earlier than anyone else" because "nah, it's cultural. They could push kids earlier in Ligue 1 / Serie A / La Liga. They just don't.".
> *
> Surely Ligue 1 would lead the way for youth minutes out of the top 5/6 leagues?*




They do. Maybe he means "breaks them in" in a different sense than just minutes given to teenagers. IDK.


----------



## Asiantuntija

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Your other boy Dembele leads the stat. I posted that chart with the tweets instead of specifically the link to the article due to the two Dortmund players.
> 
> Pipe down Evilo. Not everything's about Mbappe.




Agreed entirely


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Spurs linked to Marcel from Nice.

Any scouting reports?


----------



## Evilo

He's an attacking midfielder or winger, depending on the situation. Haven't seen much of him.


----------



## oconnor9sean

GK Jesse Gonzalez is officially USMNT for life. Big get for the US. Likely 2022 World Cup starter & outside chance of it happening in 2018 depending on the Gold Cup.


----------



## bluesfan94

Not convinced he's better than Horvath but still happy to have him


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

That outside chance is like a .005% chance. 

For 2022, he's a candidate, one of many.


----------



## Cassano




----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

DrRecchi said:


>





Which of the Monaco players came through Monaco's academy? Anyone besides Mbappe? 

If its only Mbappe, I think he might have a point. Mbappe is better than any of the Chelsea players, but they do have probably the best academy in England, they just don't use it.


----------



## les Habs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Which of the Monaco players came through Monaco's academy? Anyone besides Mbappe?




Well you can probably ask the same of Chelsea's academy to a degree.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

les Habs said:


> Well you can probably ask the same of Chelsea's academy to a degree.




Depends what Terry was talking about. 

Their "academy" players from their first team are Mbappe, Sy, Diallo, N'Doram, Cardona, Toure, Badiashile. Some decent young players, but besides Mbappe and maybe Toure, we aren't talking about many established names here. 

Chelsea is Loftus-Cheek, Chalobah, Aina, Musonda, Abraham, Christiansen, Baker, etc. There are a lot more that I could name, but I don't want to name 30 players. I think Chelsea has more depth. They don't have anyone equaling Mbappe though.

I don't think its so ridiculous what he said. Most of those Monaco players were bought after already being professionals.


----------



## les Habs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Depends what Terry was talking about.
> 
> Their "academy" players from their first team are Mbappe, Sy, Diallo, N'Doram, Cardona, Toure, Badiashile. Some decent young players, but besides Mbappe and maybe Toure, we aren't talking about many established names here.
> 
> Chelsea is Loftus-Cheek, Chalobah, Aina, Musonda, Abraham, Christiansen, Baker, etc. There are a lot more that I could name, but I don't want to name 30 players. I think Chelsea has more depth. They don't have anyone equaling Mbappe though.
> 
> I don't think its so ridiculous what he said. Most of those Monaco players were bought after already being professionals.




What he said about Monaco has absolutely nothing to do with it. To say that Musonda and Christiansen for example are "academy" players is debatable.


----------



## phisherman

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Depends what Terry was talking about.
> 
> Their "academy" players from their first team are Mbappe, Sy, Diallo, N'Doram, Cardona, Toure, Badiashile. Some decent young players, but besides Mbappe and maybe Toure, we aren't talking about many established names here.
> 
> Chelsea is Loftus-Cheek, Chalobah, Aina, Musonda, Abraham, Christiansen, Baker, etc. There are a lot more that I could name, but I don't want to name 30 players. I think Chelsea has more depth. They don't have anyone equaling Mbappe though.
> 
> I don't think its so ridiculous what he said. Most of those Monaco players were bought after already being professionals.




Yes name players that at most ride the bench at Chelsea. Great academy they have there. More like a soccer player trafficking academy.


----------



## Live in the Now

Pretty sure Terry thought all Monaco's good young players were developed there.


----------



## Jeffrey

The best academy in France is Lyon.

Lacazette, Gonalons, Tolisso, Martial, Fekir, Umtiti, Benzema, Ben Arfa just to name some few graduates.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

les Habs said:


> What he said about Monaco has absolutely nothing to do with it. To say that Musonda and Christiansen for example are "academy" players is debatable.




Christensen and Musonda went to Chelsea at 16. Might be different than a player who joins at 10, but most 16 year olds are not sure things to make it as very good footballers, and still need some development. 

And I do agree that its tough to exactly define what it means.



phisherman said:


> Yes name players that at most ride the bench at Chelsea. Great academy they have there. More like a soccer player trafficking academy.



 
You aren't wrong, but they do have a good academy.


----------



## les Habs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Christensen and Musonda went to Chelsea at 16. Might be different than a player who joins at 10, but most 16 year olds are not sure things to make it as very good footballers, and still need some development.
> 
> And I do agree that its tough to exactly define what it means.




Yes, that's why I mentioned them specifically. Anyway, I think there is a difference when they're 16. As you say, no guarantee then, but in both cases they look to have been pretty well established for their age. 

Neither look to be Mbappe' level either. I'm not as familiar with the other players you mentioned, but they'd have to be quite something to be Mbappe's level and so that would call into question Terry's comment about having better players.


----------



## Evilo

You can say the same about Mbappe also if you want. He joined Monaco at 15 after INF.
Cardona is a quality prospect BTW. If he was playing in the EPL, he'd be rated.

Monaco has had a quality academy for as long as I can remember. They produced guys like Henry too you know. Developped Trezeguet (though he too came later). You can add Ettori, Amoros, Bijotat, Bellone, Petit, Thuram, Plasil, SidibÃ© (who JT forgot because he left Monaco early and then came back), Ruffier, Germain, Kurzawa, Mendy, Carrasco, etc...
Most of these guys are internationals. That's one heck of a resume.


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> You can say the same about Mbappe also if you want. He joined Monaco at 15 after INF.
> Cardona is a quality prospect BTW. If he was playing in the EPL, he'd be rated.
> 
> Monaco has had a quality academy for as long as I can remember. They produced guys like Henry too you know. Developped Trezeguet (though he too came later). You can add Ettori, Amoros, Bijotat, Bellone, Petit, Thuram, Plasil, SidibÃ© *(who JT forgot because he left Monaco early and then came back)*, Ruffier, Germain, Kurzawa, Mendy, Carrasco, etc...
> Most of these guys are internationals. That's one heck of a resume.




Is that what happened? JT forgot?


----------



## Evilo

Haha, JT doesn't know and posters here forgot


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

les Habs said:


> Yes, that's why I mentioned them specifically. Anyway, I think there is a difference when they're 16. As you say, no guarantee then, but in both cases they look to have been pretty well established for their age.
> 
> Neither look to be Mbappe' level either. I'm not as familiar with the other players you mentioned, but they'd have to be quite something to be Mbappe's level and so that would call into question Terry's comment about having better players.




I think Chelsea has more quantity, Monaco has more quality, given they have probably the best young footballer in the world. 

Mbappe's one player, what if Chelsea produces 5 good players to Monaco's one great player? Does that make Monaco better?

If he means that Chelsea's 18-23 year olds are better than Monaco's, thats crazy. If he means Chelsea's academy is producing better players in that age range than Monaco's academy, he might have a point because although Chelsea doesn't really use their academy, they have a pretty good academy. Most of the players people know about in Monaco's team weren't developed in Monaco's academy. 

But he very well might have not meant that.


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> Haha, *JT doesn't know *and posters here forgot




 That's what I was thinking. 



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I think Chelsea has more quantity, Monaco has more quality, given they have probably the best young footballer in the world.
> 
> Mbappe's one player, what if Chelsea produces 5 good players to Monaco's one great player? Does that make Monaco better?
> 
> If he means that Chelsea's 18-23 year olds are better than Monaco's, thats crazy. If he means Chelsea's academy is producing better players in that age range than Monaco's academy, he might have a point because although Chelsea doesn't really use their academy, they have a pretty good academy. Most of the players people know about in Monaco's team weren't developed in Monaco's academy.
> 
> But he very well might have not meant that.




I'm just going based on the quote. I mean I don't know who Terry thinks is a Monaco "home-grown kid", but if he's thinking Mbappe', Lemar, Silva, etc then he'd be wrong saying Chelsea have better. Mbappe' alone is surely better than anyone Chelsea has. 

As for quantity, that could definitely be the case but I don't know and that's not how the quote reads.


----------



## Evilo

Toure and Cardona are just as good as Chelsea prospects. If not better in Toure's case.
Sidibe's better than anyone on that list I'd argue.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> Toure and Cardona are just as good as Chelsea prospects. If not better in Toure's case.
> Sidibe's better than anyone on that list I'd argue.




Sidibe joined Monaco last season...


----------



## Evilo

Yeah sorry mixed up with the other Djibril SidibÃ©.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> never mind




I know he started at Troyes then moved to Lille, not aware he was formed at Monaco.


----------



## Evilo

Nah, somehow I mixed up with the other Djibril SidibÃ© whom I remembered being trained at Monaco.


----------



## Evilo

Aliou Traore (16 yo, midfielder, former PSG) has signed with United. French youth international, compared to Pogba.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> Aliou Traore (16 yo, midfielder, former PSG) has signed with United. French youth international, compared to Pogba.




I think I speak for eveyone, does he dab?


----------



## Evilo

Haha, can't say


----------



## Elliman

Will keep my eyes on him. He looks tasty. 



Evilo said:


> Aliou Traore (16 yo, midfielder, former PSG) has signed with United. French youth international, compared to Pogba.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

These two are absolute monsters.



McKennie bossed the game today in CM, Wright scored four goals in their first preseason game with Schalke. They were promoted at the end of last season. Wish they weren't playing for Schalke, but Schalke has taken a liking to young American players. There are two more who should be joining them in about a year in the age group after theirs.


----------



## Evilo

Geubbels (you know I talked about him a few weeks ago), scored in his pro debut in a friendly. 15 year old.
Mboula also scored for Monaco in his debut.


----------



## Fulham

Davies now has 3 goals in 3 CMNT appearances. Rumored a bid was turned down from ManU in the January window. Surely more clubs circling, but the MLS will want a record fee, and he can't be transferred outside of Canada till he's 18


----------



## Luigi Habs

Fulham said:


> Davies now has 3 goals in 3 CMNT appearances. Rumored a bid was turned down from ManU in the January window. Surely more clubs circling, but the MLS will want a record fee, and he can't be transferred outside of Canada till he's 18




The kid is a stud. Safe to say he's one of the top U18 prospects in the world right now.


----------



## Juni

So England added the European Under-19 Championship to their Under-20 World Cup and the Toulon Tournament titles this summer. The Under-17s were seconds away from beating Spain only to lose on penalties, and the Under-21s were Semi Finalists.

Don't think any country has had such a comprehensively successful summer at junior international age before; time to see how much trust is put in them.

(Hint: it won't be much)


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

As a Chelsea fan, I can't wait for Mason Mount to be loaned to Vitesse and totally stagnate.


----------



## Juni

He'll do well there, but as we're seeing with Baker, it's at least two steps away from the first team. At least he's going there as an 18 year-old whilst Baker went when he was 20.


----------



## YNWA14

I don't really think it's the fault of the team if a player goes to Vitesse and stagnates. If the player going there is a top talent, or truly a player with top potential, they should thrive and really stand out and better teams will become interested.


----------



## Nalens Oga

Anyone know anything about a little DM from Argentina called Andres Cubas? Looks a bit Veratti-like.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Nalens Oga said:


> Anyone know anything about a little DM from Argentina called Andres Cubas? Looks a bit Veratti-like.




Not like Verratti. He's a more defensive midfielder - Mascherano type. He was very promising few years ago but hasn't progressed as expected yet.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Luiginho said:


> Not like Verratti. He's a more defensive midfielder - Mascherano type. He was very promising few years ago but hasn't progressed as expected yet.




Yeah, injuries have got in his way but he still pretty young needs playing time at Pescera.

The Verratti like DM teams should be lining up for is Ascacibar. Obviously.


----------



## Jussi




----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

This is crazy, but this guy is going to be a first team player at 15 the way he's going. I have a hard time believing he's 12.


----------



## Jeffrey

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> This is crazy, but this guy is going to be a first team player at 15 the way he's going. I have a hard time believing he's 12.





I'll remember that name.


----------



## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> This is crazy, but this guy is going to be a first team player at 15 the way he's going. I have a hard time believing he's 12.





He looks older than Dembele already


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Everyone questions his age because he was born in Cameroon and is incredibly good for a 12 year old, but his father gave an interview earlier this season where he said he couldn't be any older than 12 because his mother is 28.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Everyone questions his age because he was born in Cameroon and is incredibly good for a 12 year old, but his father gave an interview earlier this season where he said he couldn't be any older than 12 because his mother is 28.




Well his mother's age is even more suspect than his.

But he's apparently a talented footballer regardless and not just physically dominating kids. We'll see in a few years I guess.


----------



## Evilo

Maxwell Cornet used to be called out for looking much older than others in his teenage years. He was also much taller and much more powerful than anyone.
Then time passed and he's hardly taller than anyone right now and nobody's questionning his age.

Of course, lies have been common in the past for young africans, but sometimes youngsters evolve differently.


----------



## VEGASKING

Moukoko with 2 goals in his second match as well.


----------



## YNWA14

VEGASKING said:


> Moukoko with 2 goals in his second match as well.




Curious to see what he's like physically next to other 12 year olds.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Moukoko scored four today. 

Bundesliga rules say you can't play in the Bundesliga until 17. Gotta think they'll be making an exception for him once he turns 16, if he keeps this up. He's almost 13.


----------



## YNWA14

Literally every time I see Moukoko's pictures there's like thousands of comments about his age lol. He does look very mature (physically) for a 12 year old.

Contrast that with Edvard Tagseth for example:



Gem of a prospect; getting glowing reviews, playing under Stevie G and doing all the right stuff on the pitch. Looks half the age of Moukoko lol.


----------



## WhiskeySeven*

Deficient Mode said:


> Well his mother's age is even more suspect than his.
> 
> But he's apparently a talented footballer regardless and not just physically dominating kids. We'll see in a few years I guess.



That excuse sounds like it was devised to dismiss criticism and scrutiny for his age. Kid doesn't look 12. I understand there are global influences and unfortunate circumstances in these cases but an irrational part of me really doesn't like seeing this stuff. I shouldn't even be in question. It's absurd that it even is. Dembele and Mbappe look their freaking ages. Moukoko does not. Not one bit.

I still don't believe Joseph Minala.



Evilo said:


> Maxwell Cornet used to be called out for looking much older than others in his teenage years. He was also much taller and much more powerful than anyone.
> Then time passed and he's hardly taller than anyone right now and nobody's questionning his age.
> 
> Of course, lies have been common in the past for young africans, but sometimes youngsters evolve differently.



Cornet looks like a 20-something, because he can be 25 or 20 or 29.


----------



## jniklast

WhiskeySeven said:


> That excuse sounds like it was devised to dismiss criticism and scrutiny for his age. Kid doesn't look 12. I understand there are global influences and unfortunate circumstances in these cases but an irrational part of me really doesn't like seeing this stuff. I shouldn't even be in question. It's absurd that it even is. Dembele and Mbappe look their freaking ages. Moukoko does not. Not one bit.
> 
> I still don't believe Joseph Minala.
> 
> 
> Cornet looks like a 20-something, because he can be 25 or 20 or 29.




Huh? Of course it's fishy and likely he is actually a little older, but how can you say that shouldn't even be a question? Have you seen pictures of Lukaku when he was a kid compared to others? So it is definitely possible.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Oh well. It seems like he is good enough for these Dortmund youth teams anyway. Unless he is 6+ years older than his father claims and is taking time away from kids in the proper age group, I don't see the harm. All it really costs is a bit of extra time for fans hyping a supposed 12 year old who would be really far less precocious than his birth certificate suggests. We'll find out eventually if he is good enough to cut it at the senior level.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Yeah, whether he's 12 or 15, I think what he's doing is notable, its just notable on more than just a Dortmund scale if he's actually 12. He has 8 goals in 3 games, so like DM said, unless he's playing out of his age group against younger kids, it really shouldn't make that much difference towards whether he turns into a good player or not.


----------



## WhiskeySeven*

I suppose it's not a big deal in effect but conceptually it irks me.

There should be a red line, there should be some thing sacred - fabricating a new identity or altering one for the purposes of (your kid) standing out on a football pitch is really bizarre to me. It's a trust thing. If everyone is winking and nudging about this sorta thing and making informal exceptions then the whole structure will fall quicker than later. 

It seems so inhuman.. or something like that.


----------



## Live in the Now

I believe it, because I'm pretty sure big clubs age test players and aren't that stupid.

https://i.imgur.com/1FTjB4e.jpg

Having only seen one picture of him before, I honestly couldn't tell you which one of these he was. If he's not 12, he's 13 at most.


----------



## jniklast

Who is making informal exceptions here? He has a valid birth certificate from the German consulate in Cameroon. It's an official document, so what should a club or the association do? Challenge a legal document just because it seems strange?

And again, look at Lukaku, who was born in Belgium (so his age really isn't in doubt). So the age of Moukoko could be true after all.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Live in the Now said:


> I believe it, because I'm pretty sure big clubs age test players and aren't that stupid.
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/1FTjB4e.jpg
> 
> Having only seen one picture of him before, I honestly couldn't tell you which one of these he was. If he's not 12, he's 13 at most.




Keep in mind that picture is from a year ago and he is 11 there. On a u15 team. The other kids are probably 14. I mean, I think the point is that he doesn't look any different than the kids he's playing with physically, and he was already playing up a couple age groups at that time.


----------



## Evilo

Yes, every pro team makes medical exams to determine the future growth of players (wrist exam). That exam would tell the team if his age is the good one.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Moukoko looks way older than a 12 year old. If you were told that guy is a professional soccer player and not told anything more, you might guess 18, 19, 20 or maybe much older.


----------



## WhiskeySeven*

Evilo said:


> Yes, every pro team makes medical exams to determine the future growth of players (wrist exam). That exam would tell the team if his age is the good one.



And every pro team doesn't commit to doping and cheating either.

But they do.


----------



## Evilo

WhiskeySeven said:


> And every pro team doesn't commit to doping and cheating either.
> 
> But they do.



I didn't mean they would say or no. Just that they would know.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Doping benefits the professional team if they get away with it. Spending time and money on a player whom you know is older just to dominate at the youth levels hurts the professional team.


----------



## jniklast

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Moukoko looks way older than a 12 year old. If you were told that guy is a professional soccer player and not told anything more, you might guess 18, 19, 20 or maybe much older.




That's exaggerated. He doesn't look too old for the U17s, so that's about the upper limit. As the team photo from last year's U15 team shows, he doesn't look out of place in the teams he is playing (which are 3-4 years above his age). 

He also isn't dominating his opponent with his size or strength, he is just damn talented - no matter if he's 12 or 15 really.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

jniklast said:


> That's exaggerated. He doesn't look too old for the U17s, so that's about the upper limit. As the team photo from last year's U15 team shows, he doesn't look out of place in the teams he is playing (which are 3-4 years above his age).
> 
> He also isn't dominating his opponent with his size or strength, he is just damn talented - no matter if he's 12 or 15 really.




I posted a question in the Football thread in the Rangers section to ask how old they think he looks. Lets wait for some people to answer.

I hope this kid turns into a star, but I don't think he looks anywhere near 12.


----------



## WhiskeySeven*

jniklast said:


> That's exaggerated. He doesn't look too old for the U17s, so that's about the upper limit. As the team photo from last year's U15 team shows, he doesn't look out of place in the teams he is playing (which are 3-4 years above his age).
> 
> He also isn't dominating his opponent with his size or strength, he is just damn talented - no matter if he's 12 or 15 really.



"he is just damn talented" yeah, having the motor functions and cognitive development of a teenager and the confidence that comes with literally playing against literal preteens must help too.



Deficient Mode said:


> Doping benefits the professional team if they get away with it. Spending time and money on a player whom you know is older just to dominate at the youth levels hurts the professional team.



When they consider selling their '21 year old phenom' they will benefit from enjoying his talents from '17-21' when he's at the peak of his abilities and fitness.



Evilo said:


> I didn't mean they would say or no. Just that they would know.



They can easily look the other way. Everybody does. That's the problem. 

I mean - ****ing age fraud is where I draw the line.


----------



## Deficient Mode

WhiskeySeven said:


> When they consider selling their '21 year old phenom' they will benefit from enjoying his talents from '17-21' when he's at the peak of his abilities and fitness.




Everyone else will have caught up by "21" (or 25 if that's what you mean). We will definitely know by that age if he's actually a phenom.


----------



## WhiskeySeven*

Deficient Mode said:


> Everyone else will have caught up by "21" (or 25 if that's what you mean). We will definitely know by that age if he's actually a phenom.



Maybe players slow down but still have hype and inherent value from that hype. You have a point though.

I don't see why a club would do this, but I see why a club wouldn't investigate the matter any more than the bare, legal minimum to cover their *****.

This kid won't be the first or last kid from a developing country to have his age faked. 

Something about it really triggers an intense reaction within me. I find it so distasteful.


----------



## jniklast

WhiskeySeven said:


> "he is just damn talented" yeah, having the motor functions and cognitive development of a teenager and the confidence that comes with literally playing against literal preteens must help too.




He isn't play against preteens, he's playing against 16 to 17 year olds. Even if he really is three or four years older, then he is still one of the best in his age group.

And again, what about Lukaku? He looked even older (but wasn't) and certainly benefited from all you say. And still now he is a very good player.


----------



## cgf

There's something about people assuming that a kid's age is faked just because he comes from a poor country and looks mature that triggers an intense reaction within me.

But then again I hit the same size I am now at 13/14 and strangers at the time would guess that I was 18-19.


----------



## Evilo

cgf, I get what you mean, but history has shown plenty of players born in Africa had wrong birth dates. It was immensly common 20 years ago and probably still happens.
Kanu was a prime example.


----------



## Evilo

http://90minutes.fr/2014/02/18/top-10-des-joueurs-de-foot-avec-livret-de-famille-trafique/


----------



## YNWA14

Went after the wrong Feyenoord youngster anyway. Should have been after Toure.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> cgf, I get what you mean, but history has shown plenty of players born in Africa had wrong birth dates. It was immensly common 20 years ago and probably still happens.
> Kanu was a prime example.




It having happened before makes it no less bigoted to assume it's happening in this case. I know this board is mighty white, but it's still a little distasteful to jump straight to age manipulation.


----------



## WhiskeySeven*

cgf said:


> There's something about people assuming that a kid's age is faked just because he comes from a poor country and looks mature that triggers an intense reaction within me.
> 
> But then again I hit the same size I am now at 13/14 and strangers at the time would guess that I was 18-19.






cgf said:


> It having happened before makes it no less bigoted to assume it's happening in this case. I know this board is mighty white, but it's still a little distasteful to jump straight to age manipulation.



I'm not white and it has nothing to do with race, it really doesn't. Like I said - black French players (Coman, Dembele, Mbappe) look their age. This guy does not look his age and comes from Cameroon and his dad is mad old, etc.

And it isn't a 'jump to conclusions'. The kid is supposedly 12 and looks 17 (or older) and is better than 17 year olds. Going to raise questions.


----------



## jniklast

WhiskeySeven said:


> I'm not white and it has nothing to do with race, it really doesn't. Like I said - black French players (Coman, Dembele, Mbappe) look their age. This guy does not look his age and comes from Cameroon and his dad is mad old, etc.
> 
> And it isn't a 'jump to conclusions'. The kid is supposedly 12 and looks 17 (or older) and is better than 17 year olds. Going to raise questions.




His dad is mad old, but his mother was supposedly 16 at his birth, so it sets kind of a natural limit how old max he can be. 

I fully acknowledge that the circumstances are strange and it is likely that he is 1-3 years older, but to state it as a fact is just wrong. Fact of the matter is he has a German birth certificate (issued in a German consulate) and there have been examples in the past looking even older at the same age and born in Europe (ie. Lukaku).

And regarding the age he looks like: the answers on the Rangers board were 15 and 16, which I think is about right as the upper limit.

Anyway, getting back to his performance, he scored another brace today giving him 10 goals in 4 games.


----------



## cgf

WhiskeySeven said:


> I'm not white and it has nothing to do with race, it really doesn't. Like I said - black French players (Coman, Dembele, Mbappe) look their age. This guy does not look his age and comes from Cameroon and his dad is mad old, etc.
> 
> And it isn't a 'jump to conclusions'. The kid is supposedly 12 and looks 17 (or older) and is better than 17 year olds. Going to raise questions.




Duncan Siemens looked like a 40 year old child molester when he was 20, I looked 18-19 when I was 13-14, LeBron looks started looking 40 at 25, Lukaku looked 28 when he was born. That s*** happens without age manipulation. Judging someone by how old they look is stupid.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

jniklast, I'd say thats appropriate, probably like two years older than he claims he is, although I still think he would look a little older than 15 or 16, but its not uncommon for players that age to look a few years older than they are. 

And I don't think its racist. The story is strange, its more than just being from Africa. There was supposedly a discrepancy about when in 2004 he was born, and the story about his father being 54 while his mother was 16 adds another unusual element to the story.


----------



## cgf

If this was a balkan kid who looked like he participated in the Bosnian war, we wouldn't be having this conversation...even with the old ass dad and very young mother. So him being from Africa is a pretty big part of it.


----------



## Evilo

The future star of French football as per many scouts is named Hannibal Mejbri. I've tried to follow him for a year or two. 
He has just signed with an Academy. 
Even though u16 transfers are banned for foreigners , City, United, Barca, Arsenal, PSG, Lyon and Monaco put up offers. 
City, United and Monaco made the biggest offers : 1M€ straight to the parents' account. 
Monaco has just won the bidding war... He's 14.
http://www.foot01.com/equipe/ol/mer...e-1me-pour-un-jeune-parisien-de-14-ans,257739


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> The future star of French football as per many scouts is named Hannibal Mejbri. I've tried to follow him for a year or two.
> He has just signed with an Academy.
> Even though u16 transfers are banned for foreigners , City, United, Barca, Arsenal, PSG, Lyon and Monaco put up offers.
> City, United and Monaco made the biggest offers : 1Mâ‚¬ straight to the parents' account.
> Monaco has just won the bidding war... He's 14.
> http://www.foot01.com/equipe/ol/mer...e-1me-pour-un-jeune-parisien-de-14-ans,257739




You hinted about him last year in our keeper league but never said his name. Searched and found his name. Been keeping an eye on him since then


----------



## Jeffrey

Hannibal is a very unique french name..


----------



## Evilo

Jeffrey said:


> Hannibal is a very unique french name..




Hardly french 
It's obviously his tunisian origins, Hannibal Barca.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Evilo said:


> The future star of French football as per many scouts is named Hannibal Mejbri. I've tried to follow him for a year or two.
> He has just signed with an Academy.
> Even though u16 transfers are banned for foreigners , City, United, Barca, Arsenal, PSG, Lyon and Monaco put up offers.
> City, United and Monaco made the biggest offers : 1Mâ‚¬ straight to the parents' account.
> Monaco has just won the bidding war... He's 14.
> http://www.foot01.com/equipe/ol/mer...e-1me-pour-un-jeune-parisien-de-14-ans,257739




Love both the name and the hair.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Tashan Oakley-Boothe impressed Pochettino so much during the preseason that he decided to not go through with a deal for Pape Cheik Diop.


----------



## Chimaera

Yeah that hair and that name. 

Best player in soccer at the school where I teach has hair like that. Though he's not near that good.


----------



## John Pedro

Evilo said:


> The future star of French football as per many scouts is named Hannibal Mejbri. I've tried to follow him for a year or two.
> He has just signed with an Academy.
> Even though u16 transfers are banned for foreigners , City, United, Barca, Arsenal, PSG, Lyon and Monaco put up offers.
> City, United and Monaco made the biggest offers : 1MÃ¢‚Â¬ straight to the parents' account.
> Monaco has just won the bidding war... He's 14.
> http://www.foot01.com/equipe/ol/mer...e-1me-pour-un-jeune-parisien-de-14-ans,257739




I'm already picturing this kid and Xavi Simons, Barcelona wonderkid as the two best players in the world one day. I wish more players would give Valderrama's hairstyle a try.


----------



## Maverick41

jniklast said:


> His dad is mad old, but his mother was supposedly 16 at his birth, so it sets kind of a natural limit how old max he can be.
> 
> I fully acknowledge that the circumstances are strange and it is likely that he is 1-3 years older, but to state it as a fact is just wrong. Fact of the matter is he has a German birth certificate (issued in a German consulate) and there have been examples in the past looking even older at the same age and born in Europe (ie. Lukaku).
> 
> And regarding the age he looks like: the answers on the Rangers board were 15 and 16, which I think is about right as the upper limit.
> 
> Anyway, getting back to his performance, he scored another brace today giving him 10 goals in 4 games.




He has been selected for the U16 national team.


----------



## Evilo

Two days ago, he was wearing the french shirt with pride with the U21. After being a key player to every youth category for the NT. Born near Paris. Never lived elsewhere before he moved to Schalke.

He'll now wear the Morocco shirt apparently. Traitor is called Amine Harit.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Morocco close to make it to the WC probably has some something to do with it. Would be short sighted though because I think he has the potential to become a regulat with the France NT in the future.


----------



## Evilo

Yes, short sighted. And stupid.


----------



## Chimaera

I mean it's hard to say. Maybe the federation is paying his family or something under the table. 

It's not like that doesn't happen.


----------



## Evilo

Even so, being a french international in 3/4 years will gain him sponsors and contracts he'll never get as a Morocco international.


----------



## YNWA14

Not a bad strategy for Morocco though. Let France and Holland train all their players before tempting them over to the NT.


----------



## Chimaera

Yeah, being a French player would pay off more in the long run, but then again, he will get the money now with Morocco (if that's the case), and getting to the French squad is still a might be, not a sure thing.


----------



## Evilo

Yes, but as I said, that's short sighted. He'll get more money, a better contract and a better career as a french international.
If he believes he can succeed, he should stay with France. He's always been one of the leaders of every french generation.

But yeah, he chose the "right now" over anything. And hopefully he doesn't go the "choice of the heart" route (and you know he will, because he can't admit it's about a check and a WC first round exit) when he was so proud to wear the french shirt for so many years.

He's never even lived in Morocco.


----------



## Ajacied

Same goes for Ziyech. Born and raised in the Netherlands. Doesn't even speak a word Maroccan. 

I think the rules need to be sharpened.


----------



## WhiskeySeven*

Curtinho said:


> Not a bad strategy for Morocco though. Let France and Holland train all their players before tempting them over to the NT.



There was controversy in France because of some supposedly leaked documents or files that said the NT/FA should prefer native French players because they're less (or un) likely to jump over to other NTs after extensive youth development.

It's a problem. Not the biggest one, but one nonetheless.


----------



## Evilo

Actually, it was a recording of Blanc saying we should stop prioritizing short terms wins over long term development, and he specifically pointed to youth levels where big black powerful players would play over smaller technical players (like Griezmann, who was booted out of every academy he tried to go to). He gave Spain's academies as examples.
It was totally fair, but some people thought it was racism and leaked the audio, which started a whole journalism crisis. I know Blanc was really hurt about this.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

The Summer Transfer Window thread is closed, so I'll post this here. 

American defender Erik Palmer-Brown will join Man City in January when his MLS contract runs out. There were a number of big European clubs interested. Most American players with a choice between a number of clubs usually pick the English teams. Not sure I like that, but not my choice.


----------



## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> The Summer Transfer Window thread is closed, so I'll post this here.
> 
> American defender Erik Palmer-Brown will join Man City in January when his MLS contract runs out. There were a number of big European clubs interested. Most American players with a choice between a number of clubs usually pick the English teams. Not sure I like that, but not my choice.




I saw that Ajax, PSV and PSG were also interested... he should've gone to Ajax. He would get playing time and everyone knows Ajax is much better at developing youngsters than Manchester City or any English team for that matter.


----------



## ecemleafs

John Pedro said:


> I saw that Ajax, PSV and PSG were also interested... he should've gone to Ajax. He would get playing time and everyone knows Ajax is much better at developing youngsters than Manchester City or any English team for that matter.




man city has a great youth set up. they just wont integrate those players into their first team. no harm in getting more money, having acccess to the citeh training set up and going on loan in europe.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Carter-Vickers scores the only goal of the game in his Sheffield United debut.


----------



## chasespace

John Pedro said:


> I saw that Ajax, PSV and PSG were also interested... he should've gone to Ajax. He would get playing time and everyone knows Ajax is much better at developing youngsters than Manchester City or any English team for that matter.




You're assuming he'll spend any time at City. He'll go on a half season loan in January then go on 2 more season long loans then get sold.


----------



## Evilo

https://www.lequipe.fr/Top/Football/top-50-foot-u21/12/

Top 50 U21 players according to L'Equipe.
I don't expect much out of it since they are usually pretty awful at judging young talents and go with hype and style over substance.
But it's always worth a discussion.


----------



## cgf

Nice to see Elvedi getting love, although I can't take him over Soyuncu at this point; not with elvedi playing so much at RB.

Good to see Amiri cracking the top 50 as well, I'm a really big fan of his and think that he has a great future ahead of him with Nagelsmann guiding his development for at least one more season...ditto Geiger who's just starting to break into that side a little deeper in the midfield.

Even if seeing a super talent like Moise Kean so low is odd


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I'm only seeing 41-50. Where's the rest? And I don't read french, so I have no clue how to find the rest.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm only seeing 41-50. Where's the rest? And I don't read french, so I have no clue how to find the rest.




I think it's being released in 10s, first 41-50, then 31-40, etc.


----------



## Evilo

Yes, tomorrow 10 more.


----------



## Deficient Mode

I guess I'll have to see who the top 40 are to compare, but my first reaction was that Ãœnal is probably too low.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Lafont, Dahoud, and Hernandez seem low.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Vallejo seems very low. Top 20.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Yeah, Dahoud is too low. I wasn't sure if the list would include 21 year olds and he'd be on it. I guess it says anyone born in 96 or later. He's more accomplished and clearly more talented than the other midfielders in the 31-40 range.

Surely Pulisic will be on the list but Isak and Sancho probably also deserve a place among Dortmund players.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Tierny 37 and Dahoud 38? Lmao ok


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Driussi way too high and Mammana too low.


----------



## Evilo

As I said, L'Equipe isn't a great judge of young talents, and most L1 talent will be underrated as well.

However, it's not very fair to say player X is too low before seeing the whole list. You can only compare with the ones already ranked IMO.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Sanches at 30? Thats a reputation inclusion. He's not a top 50 player.


----------



## Evilo

Don't think Iwobi belongs in the top 25 either.
I'm waiting on the top 20, but I'm not sure there are 20 U21 players better than Malcom.

But yeah reputation, especially for players from abroad (L'Equipe loves nothing more than knock on L1 and its players) will be a huge factor.


----------



## Evilo

Also wondering where Lo Celso is. I'd be surprised to see him in the top 20, but outside the top 50 is ridiculous.


----------



## cgf

The more names they release the worse that Dahoud ranking looks


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Christensen


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> The more names they release the worse that Dahoud ranking looks




Pavon at 21?


----------



## Luigi Habs

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Pavon at 21?




My first thought when I saw this is that their collaborator in Argentina has pranked them. 

Anywayz the top 3 should be 
1) Mbappe
2) Asensio
3) Dembele


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

I'm not even going to comment on that ranking.


----------



## Evilo

Luigi Habs said:


> My first thought when I saw this is that their collaborator in Argentina has pranked them.
> 
> Anywayz the top 3 should be
> 1) Mbappe
> 2) Asensio
> 3) Dembele



Likely Dembele is ranked lower (lol) and quite possible Asensio is ranked before Mbappe (lol).


----------



## YNWA14

Should be:

1) Woodburn
2) MbappÃ©
3) Asensio
4) Dembele
5) Kluivert

That would be acceptable. Though guys like Ceballos and Valverde should also be pretty high.


----------



## phisherman

Curtinho said:


> Should be:
> 
> 1) *Woodburn*
> 2) MbappÃƒÂ©
> 3) Asensio
> 4) Dembele
> 5) Kluivert
> 
> That would be acceptable. Though guys like Ceballos and Valverde should also be pretty high.




This is going to be fun.


----------



## cgf

Woodburn is a weird way to spell Eggestein


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Curtinho said:


> Should be:
> 
> 1) Woodburn
> 2) MbappÃ©
> 3) Asensio
> 4) Dembele
> 5) Kluivert
> 
> That would be acceptable. Though guys like Ceballos and Valverde should also be pretty high.




Please, tell me you're joking?



cgf said:


> Woodburn is a weird way to spell Barco




agreed.


----------



## YNWA14

I was joking but come on...Woodburn is a better, and more accomplished, prospect than either of Eggestein or Barco. Though I wouldn't be surprised if TAA is on the list instead of Woodburn.


----------



## cgf

Better prospect? Please, Eggestein is a Bergkamp clone.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Curtinho said:


> I was joking but come on...Woodburn is a better, and more accomplished, prospect than either of Eggestein or Barco. Though I wouldn't be surprised if TAA is on the list instead of Woodburn.




Yeah, mine was completely tongue and cheek. Can't comment on who's better though never seen Woodburn play and I'm certain you've never seen Barco play.


----------



## YNWA14

Eggestein is a really interesting prospect but Woodburn is ahead in his development while being a year younger. He's also yet to really physically mature.



Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Yeah, mine was completely tongue and cheek. Can't comment on who's better though never seen Woodburn play and I'm certain you've never seen Barco play.




This Barco? Runs with his head down too much and his first touch is average. He's okay but doesn't look special to me. You should watch Woodburn if you get a chance he's a very nice player. Completely the opposite kind of player you'd expect from the English schools. Elegant, intelligent, versatile, technical and where he lacks is more on the physical side (though not a huge slouch there either).


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Yup, that Barco the one where you can't judge a player by stern minute YT clip.


----------



## cgf

Curtinho said:


> Eggestein is a really interesting prospect but Woodburn is ahead in his development while being a year younger. He's also yet to really physically mature.
> 
> 
> 
> This Barco? Runs with his head down too much and his first touch is average. He's okay but doesn't look special to me. You should watch Woodburn if you get a chance he's a very nice player. Completely the opposite kind of player you'd expect from the English schools. Elegant, intelligent, versatile, technical and where he lacks is more on the physical side (though not a huge slouch there either).




JoJo lost a whole year to injury, he'd be ripping it up in Kruse's absence had that not been the case. Even though he still has to fill out before he's fully physically mature

Plus who's ahead atm doesn't always tell us who'll be the best in their primes. Werner went from wunderkind to stagnated disappoint before becoming the most prolific 21 & under player in any of europe's top leagues


----------



## John Pedro

TOP 5

MbappÃ©
Jesus
DembelÃ©
Asensio
Dolberg


----------



## Ajacied

Dolberg has no business in the any top 10 the way he's played the past six months. 

Kluivert and de Ligt are better youngsters from Ajax.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Curtinho said:


> I was joking but come on...Woodburn is a better, and more accomplished, prospect than either of Eggestein or Barco. Though I wouldn't be surprised if TAA is on the list instead of Woodburn.




TAA will hardly be on the list either (and rightfully so).


----------



## John Pedro

Ajacied said:


> Dolberg has no business in the any top 10 the way he's played the past six months.
> 
> Kluivert and de Ligt are better youngsters from Ajax.




He was alright tonight, though (against a really weak side, I know). 
I don't agree on Kluivert. Don't think he has done enough at the senior level to be ahead of Dolberg. Kluivert had some good games in Eredivisie last season, but Dolberg was one of Ajax best players in Eredivisie and had a good Europe League campaign, in my opinion. This season he still wasn't looked nearly as good as he did in the past, but his touch, dribbling and finishing skills are hard to ignore even when he looks like a completely ghost out there. When he's on he looks like a lite version of Ibrahimovic


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

John Pedro said:


> TOP 5
> 
> MbappÃ©
> Jesus
> DembelÃ©
> Asensio
> Dolberg




Alli should replace Dolberg.


----------



## John Pedro

TopKex said:


> Alli should replace Dolberg.




yeah I just wrote those 5 names without putting much thought on it. Didn't even realize Alli was under 21, though he was older for some reason. He definitely is one of the best u21 then.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo's "boy" with _lower potential_ should be in the top 5. 

My top 5 right now in terms of current ability in this order is 

Asensio, Dembele, Mbappe, Jesus, Pulisic.


----------



## cgf

If we're being serious, you can't leave Werner out of the top 5. 96 born so he makes the cut off, Timo has scored more & been a part of more goals than any other 21 & under has in any of europe's top leagues since the start of last season. His development had stalled the final two years at VFB but he's blown up since leaving and is a starter for the defending WC champs who are amongst the top favorites for Russia 2018. Even if expanded to U23s, the only more prolific players are Belotti & Kane, who are both two years older than Timo.


----------



## ecemleafs

What's the ranking? Sites acting weird on my phone.


----------



## Evilo

Don't even know what you're talking about.

But I'll laugh for the next 30 minutes thinking you rate Pulisic in the top 5. Above guys like Ali.


----------



## Luigi Habs

My top 10 born 96 or younger:

1) Mbappe
2) Asensio
3) Dembele
4) Alli
5) Jesus
6) Werner
7) Donnaruma
8) Leroy Sane
9) Pulisic
10) Brandt

HM: Rashford, Guedes, Tah, Tielemans


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> If we're being serious, you can't leave Werner out of the top 5. 96 born so he makes the cut off, Timo has scored more & been a part of more goals than any other 21 & under has in any of europe's top leagues since the start of last season. His development had stalled the final two years at VFB but he's blown up since leaving and is a starter for the defending WC champs who are amongst the top favorites for Russia 2018. Even if expanded to U23s, the only more prolific players are Belotti & Kane, who are both two years older than Timo.




For some reason I can't read that every time you say it without thinking that this stat is meaningless when Mbappe scored 26 goals in 2/3 rds of a season including several huge CL goals. And only being a starter since february.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

I think the top four is kinda set in stone, but the fifth spot has plenty of candidates. Alli, Werner, Brandt, Pulisic, Lemar (just realized that he was still U21) and possibly Donnarumma. Alli was obviously the first to come to my head though, heh.


----------



## Evilo

Luigi Habs said:


> My top 10 born 96 or younger:
> 
> 1) Mbappe
> 2) Asensio
> 3) Dembele
> 4) Alli
> 5) Jesus
> 6) Werner
> 7) Donnaruma
> 8) Leroy Sane
> 9) Pulisic
> 10) Brandt
> 
> HM: Rashford, Guedes, Tah, Tielemans



That's not bad. I always think I'm forgetting someone. With the names you threw, I'd say Brandt is higher, probably 7th. Sane lower (around 10th). Tielemans higher, Guedes lower.
But I expect Rashford to be top 6 (with Alli, Dembele, Asensio, Mbappe and Jesus). That's L'Equipe and they love english football.
Lemar doesn't make the cut because of 2 months. Shame.

Mine would be : 
1- Mbappe
2- Jesus
3- Dembele
4- Asensio
5- Alli
6- Donnaruma
7- Werner
8- Brandt
9- Tielemans
10- Sane

Defensemen are highly underrated, but Sarr, Diop and others could have a say.


----------



## Evilo

TopKex said:


> I think the top four is kinda set in stone, but the fifth spot has plenty of candidates. Alli, Werner, Brandt, Pulisic, Lemar (just realized that he was still U21) and possibly Donnarumma. Alli was obviously the first to come to my head though, heh.




Lemar doesn't make the cut. November 1995.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Evilo said:


> Lemar doesn't make the cut. November 1995.




I see.


----------



## cgf

Dahoud should be ahead of every other german but Werner; I love Sane & Brandt, but Dahoud is more spectacular. 

Curious to see where Schick lands



Evilo said:


> For some reason I can't read that every time you say it without thinking that this stat is meaningless when Mbappe scored 26 goals in 2/3 rds of a season including several huge CL goals. And only being a starter since february.




 Punishing Werner for not playing in europe seems even sillier than comparing Werner's production to other guys' domestic production.


----------



## Evilo

Punishing Mbappe because he didn't start most of the season at 18 is silly too.
Your Stat is misleading it's all I'm saying.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Punishing Mbappe because he didn't start most of the season at 18 is silly too.
> Your Stat is misleading it's all I'm saying.




That's fair, and I don't mean it to be a definitive judgement or anything, just an impressive achievement that's worth mentioning when discussing the rising star of the german NT. Mbappe has impressive achievements of his own, he can live without this one ;-)


----------



## Deficient Mode

Hmmm. I'm assuming neither Isak nor Sancho made it now. I know there was a lot of hype for Sancho last year and he's English but probably not enough for a top 10 spot when he hasn't played professional football at all. 

I wonder if Embolo will make it still. He should have been top 50 but also not top 10 to me. Ã–degaard would be a bad omission too even if his hype faded a lot last year. Will Coman be in the top 10 as well? I don't rate him that highly but he has had a lot of hype for sure. 

Mbappe, Jesus, Dembele, Asensio, Pulisic, Alli, and Sane seem pretty solid bets based on ability/hype. I'd guess they'd also have Rashford and Donnaruma.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo was right this list hilariously bad.

I don't envision any of Ascacibar,Foyth,Martinez or Barco making it. Yet, the likes of Pavon and Driussi did.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Werder Bremen confirms that 17 year old American striker Josh Sargent will be joining them next July. 

He reportedly had interest from Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, Schalke, PSV, Ajax, Man City, Man United, Arsenal, Real Madrid. Didn't seem to want to go that type of route though.


----------



## Savant

Bremen also wanted Jordan Morris and has Aron Johansson on the. books. It's a great spot for him and hopefully he succeeds; he is a very good talent.


----------



## Incubajerks

So i think Chiesa will not be included in the list


----------



## YNWA14

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Evilo was right this list hilariously bad.
> 
> I don't envision any of Ascacibar,Foyth,Martinez or Barco making it. Yet, the likes of Pavon and Driussi did.




Ascacibar may have still made it. He's a stud and I've always read really good things about him from most circles.

Not sure I agree with Ceballos behind guys like Pulisic and Brandt, but it is what it is.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Asensio #1; Alli #2; Donnarumma #5; Coman #8


----------



## Luigi Habs

Deficient Mode said:


> Asensio #1; Alli #2; Donnarumma #5; Coman #8




Surprised with Asensio 1st. In terms of individual achievements it's between Alli and Mbappe, with an edge to Alli. In terms of wow this kid is ****ing talented, it's between Mbappe and Dembele. I had Asensio 2nd because he's a more complete package, and I believe he'll have a slightly better career than Dembele and Alli overall. 

Werner is too low obviously, probably because he doesn't play for a top club. Coman has no business being on anyone's top 20. The rest is arguable but not outrageous. It's obvious they're overrating players who play for big clubs.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I think Asensio is the best. 

Dele #2 is laughable, as is Coman at #8.


----------



## Peen

https://youtu.be/_syMrHCGW4E

Every time I watch Kenedy play I think he has stupid amounts of potential and wonder why he doesnt play more.

Does anyone here who is actually good at assessing talent have an opinion on this?


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Holy **** that was a bad ranking...


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Yeah, I wouldn't wipe my ass with this list the best Argentines who you can argue to be in the top 10 are not even in the 50?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Luigi Habs said:


> Surprised with Asensio 1st. In terms of individual achievements it's between Alli and Mbappe, with an edge to Alli. In terms of wow this kid is ****ing talented, it's between Mbappe and Dembele. I had Asensio 2nd because he's a more complete package, and I believe he'll have a slightly better career than Dembele and Alli overall.
> 
> Werner is too low obviously, probably because he doesn't play for a top club. Coman has no business being on anyone's top 20. The rest is arguable but not outrageous. It's obvious they're overrating players who play for big clubs.




Asensio is talented but it shows how little you have to do to rise to the top of the heap if you're playing for Real Madrid. His best performances have been with Spanish junior teams. And he was barely eligible for this list in age. I don't think for a second that he'll have a better career than Dembele, who is over a year younger and whose past two seasons have been clearly better than any of Asensio's.


----------



## Evilo

Told you guys french/L1 players would be tremendously underrated. How Mbappe isn't #1, I have no idea. How both Asensio and Alli are over Dembele and Mbappe either.

As for Coman I have no idea. 

That's L'Equipe for you, only watching Real, Barca, Bayern or the big EPL teams and being ****** at evaluating talent.


----------



## John Pedro

Look, I don't like to judge those kinds of list cause I'm no expert and I haven't watched all of the players listed for more than 2 games. However, how come the only SA player not playing in Europe listed is freaking Cristian PavÃ³n? lol

How didn't Bentancur make it? Wendel, who's PSG bound next season? Arana the most promising LB out there, being compared with Roberto Carlos also not good enough? Arthur linked to Bayern and Chelsea and already called up to Brazil NT also not listed.

No idea how a French newspaper can not list MbappÃ© as the best u21 in the world, either. Everyone but them does.


----------



## Ajacied

I never use this phrase, but 'lol' for not including Kluivert, who's now, with Nouri's horrible situation, Ajax' top prospect. Better than Dolberg, who's too high, and de Ligt. Should be top 10. Sanchez is rated too highly as well. I think he's already near his peak and very one dimensional. De Ligt is a much more intriguing package and nearly four years younger. Both de Jong and van de Beek could've made the list near the bottom, but there are a lot of quality youngsters at their level.

For the rest, MbappÃ© should be number one. Pretty clearly, too. He's the real deal. Not a fan of Dembele and Coman, at least I am not as high on them as some here or the media. And this once again proves how overrated Renato Sanches is.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

There's a big difference between Dembele and Coman.


----------



## YNWA14

No Woodburn on the list is pretty silly, but yes missing Kluivert but having Dolberg is just as bad.

I think MbappÃ© deserves the nod as #1 but Asensio is not a horrible choice there either. Alli should be nowhere near the top 10 IMO.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Curtinho said:


> No Woodburn on the list is pretty silly, but yes missing Kluivert but having Dolberg is just as bad.
> 
> I think MbappÃ© deserves the nod as #1 but Asensio is not a horrible choice there either. *Alli should be nowhere near the top 10 IMO*.




 

FFS

If Alli was playing for Liverpool I'm pretty sure you'd be screaming for injustice that he's not #1. 

Alli may not have the most talented among the top 5 or even top 10, but he's #1 in terms of individual achievements. For someone barely 21 yrs old, you feel he's been there since a long time and he's been arguably the best Tottenham player the past 3 years. 

Also please tell us why Woodburn should be on the list. What has he done with Liverpool so far?


----------



## YNWA14

Youngest goalscorer in their history, powered Wales to 2 wins to keep their world cup hopes alive while looking the best player on the pitch including guys like Bale, Ramsey and Allen, and dominated the u23 division (or PL2 if you like) at 16 years old. He's also only 17.

Prospects are more than just individual achievements which are largely team oriented at this age. Even guys like MbappÃ© and Asensio have a ton of insulation and support which allows them to express themselves fully in higher leagues. Alli is very fortunate to be playing for a team that allows him to have almost 0 defensive responsibility and float around essentially like a deep lying poacher in the middle; he loses the ball a lot and doesn't create a ton of chances.

Arguably the best Spurs player the last 3 years? lol come on.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Not too many 17 year old players or players who haven't played a full pro season made this list. Glancing over it, I think Kean is the only one who satisfies both??? De Ligt is 17 but played a good, full season of professional football. Havertz just turned 18 and played a good chunk of last season. Woodburn is hardly the only highly hyped but completely unproven kid not on the list.


----------



## cgf

Luigi Habs said:


> FFS
> 
> If Alli was playing for Liverpool I'm pretty sure you'd be screaming for injustice that he's not #1.
> 
> Alli may not have the most talented among the top 5 or even top 10, *but he's #1 in terms of individual achievements.* For someone barely 21 yrs old, you feel he's been there since a long time and he's been arguably the best Tottenham player the past 3 years.
> 
> Also please tell us why Woodburn should be on the list. What has he done with Liverpool so far?




I feel like that statement requires some defending. He broke through first, but reaching senior football first isn't the same as achieving the most.


----------



## John Pedro

This ins't a list of better prospects. They listed guys who have already performed at senior level to back up their prospect hype. If it was a prospect list including just guys that have high upside there would be Foden, Sancho, Woodburn, Vinicius Jr... but these kids while talented haven't proved at senior football that they are among the best.


----------



## YNWA14

Deficient Mode said:


> Not too many 17 year old players or players who haven't played a full pro season made this list. Glancing over it, I think Kean is the only one who satisfies both??? De Ligt is 17 but played a good, full season of professional football. Havertz just turned 18 and played a good chunk of last season. Woodburn is hardly the only highly hyped but completely unproven kid not on the list.




Fair enough. I guess I figured because of the stage of his accomplishments (and his very obvious, projectable talent) he'd make the top 50 if someone like Kean would.

Woodburn, Sancho and Vinicius Jr. are probably 3 I'd put over Kean.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

List is clearly fake. Joe Gomez is not ranked higher than Davinson Sanchez.


----------



## YNWA14

TopKex said:


> List is clearly fake. Joe Gomez is not ranked higher than Davinson Sanchez.




Another thing you're hung up on, though Gomez is clearly better than Sanchez. Just watch the two play.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Curtinho said:


> Another thing you're hung up on, though Gomez is clearly better than Sanchez. Just watch the two play.




I'd tell you to watch the two play too. And you're clearly hung up on Alli not choosing Liverpool.


----------



## Savant

Curtinho said:


> Another thing you're hung up on, though Gomez is clearly better than Sanchez. Just watch the two play.




Nope


----------



## YNWA14

TopKex said:


> I'd tell you to watch the two play too. And you're clearly hung up on Alli not choosing Liverpool.




I have actually watched both of them, unlike most of the people that commented on the Gomez thing before (and am one of the few people that actually watches the Eredivisie). Now Gomez has stepped up and been fantastic this season (like he was before injury), in a much more difficult defensive system to play in.

Anyway, I'm not hung up on Alli because he didn't snub Liverpool; Liverpool snubbed him. Rodgers wanted him and the board said no. People just overhype him because he scored a bunch of goals (creatively carried by guys like Eriksen, Kane and Poch's system). You can see the massive difference when he's actually asked to contribute more than just floating when he plays with England and he looks very poor for them.

He's good for a 21 year old but he's not among the top prospects in the world and he's never going to be much better than he is now.


----------



## Evilo

Gomez fantastic? Come on, he's played 3 games in the league and was hardly fantastic in all 3.


----------



## YNWA14

Evilo said:


> Gomez fantastic? Come on, he's played 3 games in the league and was hardly fantastic in all 3.




He played a large part in why Arsenal had no scoring chances, and 2 of our goals came of his interceptions (yes, he was fantastic in that game). He was solid to very good in all the games he's played, he just turned 20 years old, in a system that is very difficult on defenders. If he were French you'd have hyped him to no end (not saying you only hype French players, btw).


----------



## Evilo

Every Arsenal attack came from the left side of Arsenal. I didn't find him fantastic defensively in that game.
And again, hardly fantastic in the others.


----------



## Live in the Now

I thought he was great in that game but not so much in the other games. 

Still think he has massive potential and would be pretty surprised if he didn't develop into a top defender. I am worried about his knee though because it already blew up once and he's just barely getting back to first team football. Contrary to Woodburn who I think probably won't develop into a great player.


----------



## YNWA14

Evilo said:


> Every Arsenal attack came from the left side of Arsenal. I didn't find him fantastic defensively in that game.
> And again, hardly fantastic in the others.




Yeah, all 0 of their shots on goal came from the left side. They really looked threatening in that one.


----------



## Evilo

Good to know you watched the game instead of looking at a stat sheet.


----------



## YNWA14

Evilo said:


> Good to know you watched the game instead of looking at a stat sheet.




Good to know you watched the game if you think Arsenal looked dangerous at any point in that game, or you missed some of Gomez's very strong defensive plays in it, and you don't think that Gomez looked great (which he did). You're blinded by your stubbornness especially after commenting relative to things you had no idea about before the season started; though I don't think I've ever seen you admit you were wrong in something you've debated with someone on this site ever so I'm not expecting you to ever give Gomez a compliment or anything. Par for the course. Enjoy watching him develop (if you'll actually watch some games)


----------



## Evilo

I'd say the only blind here is you. You refuse to accept any shortcoming. Just like every Liverpool player/prospect.
I watched the game. And actually posted during it, and you may find the comment about Arsenal putting the left side of Liverpool's defense to struggle every time they managed to get there.


----------



## phisherman

I think lost in this is that a lot of what he's basing his opinion on Gomez is through the U23 reserve matches. Gomez has only played on the senior team a whole 8 times!!

You know who else looked good for Liverpool against Arsenal in the past? Jon Flanagan. I bet he's Dani Alves level for Curtinho.


----------



## Live in the Now

I deleted the whole last page. 

Back to prospect discussion.


----------



## Evilo

Again, sorry for that LITN.


----------



## Evilo

Aouar, hyped Lyon prospect scored on his first Lyon start. 19 years old.
Also read today that Bayern made an offer for Guebbels (16 yo) this summer.


----------



## Evilo

8-9M€ was the offer BTW.


----------



## Evilo

And Geubbels comes in for his first L1 minutes !!!! He has 10 minutes to score !


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Instead of a ranking, this is just a very informative list of fifty prospects to watch.

http://breakingthelines.com/rankings-archive/who-to-watch-2018/


----------



## cgf

I don't really rate Maxi Eggestein. His younger brother is a huge talent, but he's not.

Kehrer, Geiger, Soyuncu, Zakaria, Amiri, Harit & Upamecano are all really exciting though.


----------



## Savant

cgf said:


> I don't really rate Maxi Eggestein. His younger brother is a huge talent, but he's not.
> 
> Kehrer, Geiger, Soyuncu, Zakaria, Amiri, Harit & Upamecano are all really exciting though.




Is David Philipp at Bremen related to Max at Dortmund? Similar ceilings?


----------



## ecemleafs

good to see 2 celts in that lequipe list.


----------



## Evilo

Kamano isn't a Bastia player, he's a Bordeaux player. For over a year


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Evilo said:


> Kamano isn't a Bastia player, he's a Bordeaux player. For over a year




Which they wrote in the text. Some pictures are off for some reason.


----------



## Evilo

Ah OK, didn't read his text tbh.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> I don't really rate Maxi Eggestein. His younger brother is a huge talent, but he's not.
> 
> Kehrer, Geiger, Soyuncu, Zakaria, Amiri, Harit & Upamecano are all really exciting though.




I sort of agree about the brothers Eggestein. Max gets too much credit.



Savant said:


> Is David Philipp at Bremen related to Max at Dortmund? Similar ceilings?




I sort of don't think they're related. I haven't watched David play at all.


----------



## cgf

Savant said:


> Is David Philipp at Bremen related to Max at Dortmund? Similar ceilings?




I don't think they are and even though I love Maxi Philipp as a forward & goal-getter, his ceiling isn't as high. David has a huge ceiling as a creative midfielder if he continues to progress


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> I sort of agree about the brothers Eggestein. Max gets too much credit.




He's done well to get his coach's trust, but he's not an adequate replacement for Grillitsch or even a stop gap until Mbom is ready. He's just not skilled or quick enough yet on the ball


----------



## Evilo

The Golden Boy finalists are known : Mbappe, Jesus, Dembele.
Don't think there's any doubt who wins it.
Best top 3 since 2007 most likely.


----------



## Evilo

So results are in :
Mbappe wins the title with 291 votes ouf ot 300, which is a historical record.
Dembele finishes 2nd, Jesus 3rd.


----------



## Deficient Mode

The tuttosport article says Rashford finished third and Jesus fourth. Weird that Jesus was widely reported as the third "finalist."

Definitely better than Renato winning it in any event.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Deficient Mode said:


> The tuttosport article says Rashford finished third and Jesus fourth. Weird that Jesus was widely reported as the third "finalist."
> 
> Definitely better than Renato winning it in any event.




The fact that Renato Sanches won last year was a joke at the time and looks even worse in hindsight. 

This year, obvious choice was obvious. Incredible finalists though.


----------



## cgf

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> The fact that Renato Sanches won last year was a joke at the time and looks even worse in hindsight.
> 
> This year, obvious choice was obvious. Incredible finalists though.




Umm, Renato Sanches totally threw himself into a bunch of physical challenges over the course of the month during which the euros transpired. And because Portugal rarely did anything with the ball, he never had to control anything or make any tough decisions.

That's totally more important than being able to play for a possession side without being the weak point in his side's possession, thereby making his side more vulnerable to counters. 

It's the exact same reason why the omnipotent Jogi Löw continues to select Goretzka & Can ahead of Dahoud & Demirbay. Sure the latter two are infinitely better in possession when they don't have acres of space to run into on the counter, because they are even more skilled and are quick thinkers, but that doesn't matter anymore...


----------



## Vipers31

Bayern today announced that Alex Timossi Andersson joins Bayern's pro ranks July 1st 201*9*. He's 16 years old playing in the Swedish 2nd division with Helsingborg IF.

Anybody know anything about him?


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Vipers31 said:


> Bayern today announced that Alex Timossi Andersson joins Bayern's pro ranks July 1st 201*9*. He's 16 years old playing in the Swedish 2nd division with Helsingborg IF.
> 
> Anybody know anything about him?




Live in Helsingborg. Impressive player. Consistently starts for them as a right midfielder/winger. More of a scorer than a playmaker.

Not sure if he is future Bayern quality though.


----------



## Vipers31

TopKex said:


> Live in Helsingborg. Impressive player. Consistently starts for them as a right midfielder/winger. More of a scorer than a playmaker.
> 
> Not sure if he is future Bayern quality though.




Oh, neat - hope I'll get to hear an update on him every half year or so until he's moving.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Vipers31 said:


> Oh, neat - hope I'll get to hear an update on him every half year or so until he's moving.




I'll keep you posted. Seems like Bayern think he actually could be a future squad player, but Helsingborg will get to keep him until then. Wouldn't mind if Helsingborg and Bayern had some kind of partnership.


----------



## Vipers31

TopKex said:


> I'll keep you posted. Seems like Bayern think he actually could be a future squad player, but Helsingborg will get to keep him until then. Wouldn't mind if Helsingborg and Bayern had some kind of partnership.




Yeah, they obviously think he has a chance. He was around for a guest practice last summer from what I heard, along with a stint at ManU [EDIT: after reading a bit more - it was November last year that he was around for a practice with us, and with United in February this year], and seemingly left a good impression. The interest in him still seems to be our former roster planner, Reschke, who was also behind the Kimmich transfer, so I'm cautiously optimistic and certainly intrigued. After all, Bayern has fantastic experience with and memories tied to Swedes that go by the name of Andersson... =)


----------



## Vipers31

Ha, TopKex, are you working for Helsingborg, are you a visionary, or have you just read about this before - the two clubs have actually announced some form cooperation beyond this transfer, with the contractual details still being worked on. A delegation from Helsingborg apparently is going to come to Munich soon. Great to hear, I hope a lot of good is going to come off this.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Vipers31 said:


> Ha, TopKex, are you working for Helsingborg, are you a visionary, or have you just read about this before - the two clubs have actually announced some form cooperation beyond this transfer, with the contractual details still being worked on. A delegation from Helsingborg apparently is going to come to Munich soon. Great to hear, I hope a lot of good is going to come off this.




It was just some wishful thinking, haha. Helsingborg has really struggled financially since their top division win five years ago. I think the partnership could benefit both clubs.


----------



## cgf

Fiete Arp...the first german 2000er in the Bundesliga when he came on in stoppage time prior to the u17 WC...scores his first goal in his second appearance, coming on as a substitute in the 55th minute for Hamburg. Kid also one some corners and generally drew praise from every direction for his showing in his first real opportunity. Can't wait for him to be done with school...and to join a more interesting team

http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/video/1083566147615


----------



## YNWA14

Is he more promising than Eggestein?


----------



## cgf

Curtinho said:


> Is he more promising than Eggestein?




I don't think so, but he's much more of a physical & aerial threat, so he does get a lot less shit from certain sectors of the german football world. Plus JoJo's injuries have really caused a lot of people to forget about him while starting to hype Arp.

Ultimately I still see the German Bergkamp when Eggestein plays for the youth teams or Werder manages to string a few passes together for him, and I don't see the new-age KHR when I watch Arp...though I can buy a Klinsmann/Klose level all around goalscorer, who has scored some very clutch goals at the youth levels and shown he has the skill & intelligence not to be the blackhole that Gomez was as a young striker.

I still think that Eggestein is our biggest striker prospect, Werner is number two, then comes Arp at #3; but all three look like they could lead the line for a WC winner for us, even if we went back to a single striker formation...though we shouldn't...


----------



## cgf

Arp scores in his 1st start to make it two goals in 125 BuLi minutes, 1 goal away from passing Pulisic and 3 away from passing Werner for most BuLi goals by a 17yo. 3rd goal for HSV is Arp's:


----------



## John Pedro

Rodrygo Goes made his Santos debut today. 16 years old. The next Neymar they say.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

John Pedro said:


> Rodrygo Goes made his Santos debut today. 16 years old. The next Neymar they say.





Why wasn't he at the U17 WC and is he better than Vinicius?


----------



## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Why wasn't he at the U17 WC and is he better than Vinicius?




Coach's decision. Should've been called up to replace Vinicius, instead, the coach went with Helinho (really good player but he's yet another midfielder in a team lacking wingers).

Hard to tell right now. Vinicius was pretty dominant at the u20 level last season as a 16 years old, there was no doubt he was the best u20 player in the continent. He's bigger and more powerful than Rodrygo. Rodrygo is a better dribbler and works better in tight spaces but isn't as good as Vinicius in terms of end product yet. If I had to bet on who gonna end up the best player I'd go with Rodrygo cause he's got more raw talent and Santos is much better at developing young players than Flamengo/Real Madrid.


----------



## cgf

Watching some compilations of takes and dribbles from Nicolas Kuhn, Oliver Batista Meier, John Yeboah, etc. that I got sent earlier today just reminds of how nice it is too see that we have managed to start pumping out all of the players that we struggled to for so long.

For years our youth programs pumped out elegant midfielders (Mattuschka / Kramer / Ozil / Kroos / Gundogan / Schweinsteiger / Gotze / Rudy / Gentner), graceful CBs (Boateng / Hummels / Badstuber / Toprak / Vogt), and wide forwards who excelled at making runs off the ball (Müller / Reus / Volland / Podolski / Schurrle / Herrmann); but we had no central forwards, no dribblers off the wings to break down parked busses, and no FBs.

Now our U23 ranks are gushing with talent at each of those spots that used to be huge weaknesses, as: Eggestein, Werner, Arp & Moukoko are simply special talents up front, any of whom could end up leading the line for a WM winning german side; the likes of Sane, Brandt, Kuhn, Yeboah, Batista Meier & Gnabry have the elite quickness and dribbling to take-on world class FBs & turn them inside out; and at FB Gian Luca Itter is one of our bigger prospects but will have a real battle on his hands against the likes of Weiser, Mittelstadt, Passlack, Klostermann, plus the misplaced midfielders Kimmich & Henrichs.


----------



## Live in the Now

Brewster just scored a goal that I really wouldn't expect any 17 year old to be scoring at U23 level. Should be in the first team by the end of the season.


----------



## cgf

Sweet goal.

Though I wouldn't say I wouldn't expect any 17 year old to score that goal. It's tricky and one that top talents will miss plenty of times; but the top talents in that age group can put that chance away and not have it be a shock...as Brewster did.


----------



## Live in the Now

cgf said:


> Sweet goal.
> 
> Though I wouldn't say I wouldn't expect any 17 year old to score that goal. It's tricky and one that top talents will miss plenty of times; but the top talents in that age group can put that chance away and not have it be a shock...as Brewster did.




It's more the level he's playing at than anything else. Outplaying senior players too. The U17 golden boot winner rarely turns into anything so it'll be interesting to see how he develops.


----------



## cgf

Live in the Now said:


> It's more the level he's playing at than anything else. Outplaying senior players too. The U17 golden boot winner rarely turns into anything so it'll be interesting to see how he develops.




Gotcha gotcha.

I've said it elsewhere, but I really do hope england's exciting youth delivers on the senior level. The rivalry they feel towards our NT is a lot more fun to observe when they have a chance. Plus our NT needs to be challenged in different ways and to play against team who won't just concede possession to them entirely to continue to evolve...which is one of my great gripes with Jogi, he is always prepared to win the last war and isn't aggressive enough when he does try to be pro-active. So the more teams that can rise the way France has recently and Brazil looks like they will, the more Jogi will be forced to move the team towards is ideal lineup...or the more the DFB will finally realize we need better than the german Wenger to mold the NT in this second golden generation.

I really hope that some day I will get over Jogi f***ing it up in France and robbing this core of the opportunity to match Spain's run with a triumph in Russia...but I'm still pissed the DFB pushed Netzer and Gerd out of the NT and robbed us of the opportunity to become the 1st team to win back to back to back WCs/ECs when we lost the 76 final on pens...so I doubt it.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich




----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Pavel Buchnevich said:


>




He would probably be de Ligtful to take a bite into.


----------



## cgf

After Arp's run forced Akpoguma to put the ball into his own net for the 1-0, and almost got the 3-0 that Jung jumped in front of him to pounce on; Koln introduced the second 2000er to the BuLi. As the still 16 yo Yann Aurel Bisseck started in the back three for them. The kid wasn't a big part of the youth NTs until recently but he's got amazing physical gifts and played great at the u17 WM when given a chance...was a big part of the dominating showing against Colombia. Like Udoukhai I worry he'll end up more Rudiger than Boateng, but the kid has been rapidly rising in german youth circles even before becoming the 2nd youngest BuLi player ever.


----------



## YNWA14

Not sure which goal was nicer...the 2nd or the 3rd but Kluivert's hattrick was pretty nice. Well taken goals. Maybe he'll actually get to start more often now with Younes injured (no idea why it's taken this long tbh).


----------



## cgf

JoJo's brace against england from earlier in the month. Werner & Arp are the two german forwards getting all of the hype right now because Werner continues to be a talismanic figure for Leipzig and Arp is Hamburg's most dangerous player as a 17 yo; but when all is said and done Eggestein should reign supreme with his slickness, skill & cleverness. Nothing too spectacular in this vid, but I could watch the way he receives passes and swivels in the box all day:


----------



## East Coast Bias

Aliou Traore, former PSG academy and U17 France player, signed for Manchester United. Anyone know anything about him? 

Paging Evilo


----------



## Evilo

East Coast Bias said:


> Aliou Traore, former PSG academy and U17 France player, signed for Manchester United. Anyone know anything about him?
> 
> Paging Evilo



It was done last summer I think.
He is a powerful and technical midfielder. Was on PSG's youth team but didn't get enough playing time so went back to his amateur team, from where United signed him.
Promising player.


----------



## ecemleafs

on loan from PSG youngster, Odssonne Edouard, scored a hat trick for Celtic yesterday. Possibly the youngest hat trick scorer in Scottish top flight since Anthony Stokes for Falkirk bout 11-12 years ago.


----------



## Cassano

Given that he flopped at Rangers in 2nd tier Scottish football, I'm not even sure if he's a prospect anymore. But he was hyped here back in the day, so here is his update.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

It goes back farther than that. He could still carve out a nice career, but he's very one-dimensional. Holds the ball well, he's able to create space for himself and he can play some brilliant passes, but other than that, he doesn't do much well.


----------



## Juni

He's not remotely dynamic enough to impact the game at the higher levels atm.

Traore signed for Man Utd in the summer yeah, he only just received his international clearance now though.


----------



## Juni

Live in the Now said:


> Brewster just scored a goal that I really wouldn't expect any 17 year old to be scoring at U23 level. Should be in the first team by the end of the season.





Callum Hudson-Odoi, seven months younger than Brewster, then did this a week later at the same level (against Brewster and Liverpool, who deservedly won 3-1).


----------



## cgf

Speaking of LFC, how is Paul Glatzel doing? Not sure how highly he's rated but some german NT folks think he could bridge the gap at the youth levels between Arp & Moukoko


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Marcus Edwards seems to be in Poch's doghouse. He will most likely include a few academy players in the squad tomorrow but not him. Believe that he lacks commitment in training.


----------



## Juni

cgf said:


> Speaking of LFC, how is Paul Glatzel doing? Not sure how highly he's rated but some german NT folks think he could bridge the gap at the youth levels between Arp & Moukoko




Don't really think that'd suit him, he's not a 9 in the style of those two. Wouldn't be the most comfortable being asked to lead the attack on his own as the focal point.


----------



## Evilo

Hey Juni, been a while, how are you doing?

What is your analysis of all those english successes in youth competitions this year?
Truly great generations coming up? What are your expectations?


----------



## cgf

Juni said:


> Don't really think that'd suit him, he's not a 9 in the style of those two. Wouldn't be the most comfortable being asked to lead the attack on his own as the focal point.




I wish I could like your posts more than once.

So is he more of a supporting forward in the mold of Thomas Müller then? Because he was listed as a forward with the u15s and the germans who I heard talking about him mentioned him as one of the options to play as part of a front two...since we have a lot of young forward prospects coming up (especially amongst the 2001ers) though none of them has yet ran away from the pack the way Werner, Eggestein & Arp did in their age groups.


----------



## Evilo

Too bad the asshole decided to play for a country he never lived in...


----------



## Juni

Evilo said:


> Hey Juni, been a while, how are you doing?
> 
> What is your analysis of all those english successes in youth competitions this year?
> Truly great generations coming up? What are your expectations?




I think the 2000s generation that just won the World Cup is potentially England's greatest; there's never been a pool of players born in the same year that have achieved as much as they have at such a young age, but the question mark is whether they'll get the opportunity to make good on their potential. The summer of success is testament to the tremendous work being done at club academies, not at the FA, and there's such a depth of talent now that it's impossible for some of them not to break through; the players will filter down to smaller PL and Championship clubs as the pathway at the very top will always be closed, but there are too many good players for them to not eventually leave England with a far broader and more impressive pool of players to choose form than they currently have (I mean Jake Livermore ffs, come on).



cgf said:


> I wish I could like your posts more than once.
> 
> So is he more of a supporting forward in the mold of Thomas Müller then? Because he was listed as a forward with the u15s and the germans who I heard talking about him mentioned him as one of the options to play as part of a front two...since we have a lot of young forward prospects coming up (especially amongst the 2001ers) though none of them has yet ran away from the pack the way Werner, Eggestein & Arp did in their age groups.




Said with the full admission that I've not seen him enough to know his game inside out, it was mainly the fact that he doesn't have the physique to be a 9 in the style of Arp or Moukoko. He's smaller than that, probably best suited as a second striker or as a 10 playing off a lone forward, and if you've not got that physique you're not going to be a lone forward at any notable level unless you've got at least one other outstanding attribute. He might, he might not, but for the time being he's not that sort of player.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> Too bad the ******* decided to play for a country he never lived in...





Actually highly respectable from the kid.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## Evilo

Juni said:


> I think the 2000s generation that just won the World Cup is potentially England's greatest; there's never been a pool of players born in the same year that have achieved as much as they have at such a young age, but the question mark is whether they'll get the opportunity to make good on their potential. The summer of success is testament to the tremendous work being done at club academies, not at the FA, and there's such a depth of talent now that it's impossible for some of them not to break through; the players will filter down to smaller PL and Championship clubs as the pathway at the very top will always be closed, but there are too many good players for them to not eventually leave England with a far broader and more impressive pool of players to choose form than they currently have (I mean Jake Livermore ffs, come on).



Thanks !


----------



## cgf

Juni said:


> Said with the full admission that I've not seen him enough to know his game inside out, it was mainly the fact that he doesn't have the physique to be a 9 in the style of Arp or Moukoko. He's smaller than that, probably best suited as a second striker or as a 10 playing off a lone forward, and if you've not got that physique you're not going to be a lone forward at any notable level unless you've got at least one other outstanding attribute. He might, he might not, but for the time being he's not that sort of player.




I think the thinking was that given the rise of two forward formations in germany, that we don't need as physically robust of forwards anymore. So even though Arp & Moukoko are two of the hottest names in the country, finesse forwards more in the mold of Eggestein or Kühn could shine for the age groups between those two.


----------



## YNWA14

Although I haven't seen as much of him as I'd like right now Glatzel, while highly rated in scouse circles, has been playing midfield not up front.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Jurgen Klinsmann's son is a goalkeeper at Hertha Berlin, and he got his first team debut yesterday. Stopped a penalty.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## JeffreyLFC

Kylian is a world class talent everybody knows that..

How about talking about the next big thing? I suggest Houssem Aouar!! He is amazing.


----------



## chasespace

Evilo said:


>




Shouldn't they be counting stats instead of badonkadonks?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@Evilo.


----------



## Evilo

Yeah I know. PSG academy is getting pillaged in recent years because players fear for their playing time. Going to Barca however wouldn't make much sense in that regard.


----------



## cgf

Do we have any aussies on here who could comment on 2001 born Jacob Italiano? Some BMG scouts are really excited about the kid, while Eberl works to bring him to germany when he turns 18 in the summer of 2019; but I know nothing about him other than that he's apparently Tim Cahill reborn


----------



## Live in the Now

I think Brewster just tore his ACL.


----------



## John Pedro

Rodrygo (2001) just scored again for Santos. 2 goals in 3 games (all coming in as sub) so far in 2018... it's like watching Neymar turning into a star all over again. Brenner (2000) scored yesterday for Sao Paulo FC in the derby against Corinthians. The 2000/2001 generation looking really promising so far. Vinicius Jr and Lincoln started the year well for Flamengo too.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Juni said:


> Callum Hudson-Odoi, seven months younger than Brewster, then did this a week later at the same level (against Brewster and Liverpool, who deservedly won 3-1).





Debuted today!!!


----------



## xavi4life

John Pedro said:


> Rodrygo (2001) just scored again for Santos. 2 goals in 3 games (all coming in as sub) so far in 2018... it's like watching Neymar turning into a star all over again. Brenner (2000) scored yesterday for Sao Paulo FC in the derby against Corinthians. The 2000/2001 generation looking really promising so far. Vinicius Jr and Lincoln started the year well for Flamengo too.




I'm going to need you to stop posting until the end of February. Thanks!


----------



## Evilo

Haha, don't tell me about it, there have been some nams thrown around here that have me cringe inside.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Haven’t had much time to follow south american football so please keep them coming lol


----------



## YNWA14

If people are doing their homework there's nobody in this thread (well, the big ones at least) that they shouldn't have already known about really.

Liverpool were linked with Rodrygo back in the summer!


----------



## Evilo

There has been talks of players you likely never heard of recently.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Window came and went and nobody bought this gem. Opting for Luca for 25? and Walcott what 20? 

He just bagged another while Sampa and Inter sporting director in the stands. Well done boy.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Window came and went and nobody bought this gem. Opting for Luca for 25? and Walcott what 20?
> 
> He just bagged another while Sampa and Inter sporting director in the stands. Well done boy.





He ended up with a hattrick in this match. 7 goals in 8 Superliga games so far. Now that Centurion is back at Racing they will be a very dangerous team offensively, Coudet is a heck of a coach too. I wouldn't be thrilled with him joining Inter, their track record with young talent isn't very impressive. I think he would be a good fit at Dortmund as Auba's replacement.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> He ended up with a hattrick in this match. 7 goals in 8 Superliga games so far. Now that Centurion is back at Racing they will be a very dangerous team offensively, Coudet is a heck of a coach too. I wouldn't be thrilled with him joining Inter, their track record with young talent isn't very impressive. I think he would be a good fit at Dortmund as Auba's replacement.




Yeah, not thrilled about the (rumoured) deal but if they can turn him out like Icardi then no complaints.

I would've preferred Dortmund, which is a little ironic considering I used to hate the idea of Argentinian players going to the German league now I would actually like that.


----------



## Evilo

Much hyped PSG youngster Claudio Gomes rejected a pro contract with Paris to join City.
No reason for him to sign there since Guardiola would rather have less players than max on the bench rather than call up youngsters, so I have no idea why he did that. Money I'm guessing...


----------



## John Pedro

Evilo said:


> Much hyped PSG youngster Claudio Gomes rejected a pro contract with Paris to join City.
> No reason for him to sign there since Guardiola would rather have less players than max on the bench rather than call up youngsters, so I have no idea why he did that. Money I'm guessing...




In an age where English kids where heading to Bundesliga in search of playing time it makes no sense, indeed. What position does he play, anyway?


----------



## Evilo

CM. Always a fixture for youth NT.


----------



## Evilo

OK, now that I can talk about him, let me rave about Tanguy Ndombele  I know many of you have noticed him, but I couldn't answer much because of our football keeper pool. Now he's officially mine . For the minimum bid 
What a f***ing player.
If he keeps on progressing, he'll be a mix between Matuidi and Vieira. Vieira in his ability to break lines all the time. Matuidi in his incredible motor. And his booming shot too. Guy was bought 8M by Lyon. I bet he'll be worth 40M+ next summer. Lots of rumors of DD looking hard at him. Don't see the place given our NT roster, but he's legitimate. Could replace.... Matuidi. As early as next WC.


----------



## Evilo

BTW, Ndbombele's emergence has made him a systematic starter and put two of Cornet, Aouar or Memphis on the bench.


----------



## YNWA14

When I was watching Lyon he's (Ndombele) the player I was most interested in from a Liverpool perspective; especially his ability to break the lines by himself and quickly turn defence into attack. Looks to be a very good player and he was on my list as well but my depth at midfield is good and I don't have many strikers. It'll be interesting to see how he progresses.


----------



## VEGASKING

Looks like Lyon pipeline is loaded right now.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Pretty sure Geubbels is looking to leave though.


----------



## Evilo

VEGASKING said:


> Looks like Lyon pipeline is loaded right now.



Crazy. Though Lyon bought him and didn't develop him.
In fact, plenty of teams missed out on Ndombele because he was too fat in his teen years. Guingamp, Caen, Auxerre and many others.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Martinez with assist for Racing it was one you make in Fifa 1v1 situation. Sampa again was in attendance. If he keeps this similar play, he'll make the WC it seems.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Martinez with assist for Racing it was one you make in Fifa 1v1 situation. Sampa again was in attendance. If he keeps this similar play, he'll make the WC it seems.




There's another Lautaro getting hyped in Argentina right now. Lautaro Chavez. 16y old, plays for Gimnasia y Esgrima. I still haven't seen him play, but he's being regarded as the next big thing in Argentina he also made their u20 squad for some friendly matches.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> There's another Lautaro getting hyped in Argentina right now. Lautaro Chavez. 16y old, plays for Gimnasia y Esgrima. I still haven't seen him play, but he's being regarded as the next big thing in Argentina he also made their u20 squad for some friendly matches.




Lets hope he's not another Cocheney.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

RB Leipzig is looking to sign Reo Griffiths from Spurs academy. His contract is up next summer. Great striker prospect.


----------



## cgf

*sigh* Leipzig aren't ever going to actually bring any of those amazing german kids they've brought into their academy through to their senior team, are they? Hopefully the others follow Kuhn to clubs that'll actually give them senior PT if RB is going to continue relying on transfers to bring young talent into the senior squad.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

cgf said:


> *sigh* Leipzig aren't ever going to actually bring any of those amazing german kids they've brought into their academy through to their senior team, are they? Hopefully the others follow Kuhn to clubs that'll actually give them senior PT if RB is going to continue relying on transfers to bring young talent into the senior squad.




Since Leipzig have hired Paul Mitchell, expect more english players coming in.


----------



## Savant

Liverpool knocked Man U out of the UYL. 

Ben Woodburn MOTM with a goal and assist


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Liverpool knocked Man U out of the UYL.
> 
> Ben Woodburn MOTM with a goal and assist



There's a topic for this my man.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Martinez captaining racing in the absence of Lopez. Youngest player to captain them. Wow


----------



## Il Mediano

VEGASKING said:


> Looks like Lyon pipeline is loaded right now.




Take it that means they don't want Gonalons back...


----------



## YNWA14

Youssoufa Moukoko (13) now sitting on 30 goals and 4 assists in 16 games for Dortmund's u17 team. Even if you don't believe that he's 13 (he certainly looks quite young) what he's doing is so far beyond the level of his peers it's pretty insane even if he were 15/16. In these 16 games he's only been unable to register a goal or an assist in 1 (and he only played 40 minutes). From what footage I've seen he isn't physically dominating the league either -- good technique with both feet, fast...has anyone here maybe @Deficient Mode or @cgf watched more full footage of him than just highlights?


----------



## Evilo

Looks a lot like how Ongenda dominated youth ranks through sheer skill and IQ.
And then stuff happenned. Big head, bad behaviour, always late for practice.
Right now, he's without a job and has trouble paying the house he bought for his family after his first pro contract. An article was written a week or so ago about him. Such a waste of talent.

Anyway, young guys have a long way to go. There are many youth superstars that never amount to anything because of character, injuries or bad advices.


----------



## YNWA14

Evilo said:


> Looks a lot like how Ongenda dominated youth ranks through sheer skill and IQ.
> And then stuff happenned. Big head, bad behaviour, always late for practice.
> Right now, he's without a job and has trouble paying the house he bought for his family after his first pro contract. An article was written a week or so ago about him. Such a waste of talent.
> 
> Anyway, young guys have a long way to go. There are many youth superstars that never amount to anything because of character, injuries or bad advices.



Absolutely. The biggest issue a lot of hyper-talented players face is either a) being in a bad environment or b) character issues. Injuries are obviously unfortunate as well. It's why you see a lot of guys that maybe aren't the most talented making it to the top level through sheer will and hard work (obviously they also need to have some talent).


----------



## Deficient Mode

I have probably not watched more of him that the rest of you have. It will be far easier to find streams of full matches when he moves up to the U19 level than it is at the U17 level.


----------



## cgf

I've seen two of his NT matches and he looks like the total package so far. Has good size but doesn't just dominate through being bigger and stronger than his peers. Blazing speed, high-level technique, and excellent instincts in the box. If he keeps busting his ass and can transition to the higher levels he could be an insane talent. Should be fun to see what he does in the coming years.


----------



## Evilo

Willem Geubbels has rejected Lyon's latest offer. It's not a financial issue apparently, but the 16 year old wants some playing time and he isn't getting much with Lyon right now.


----------



## Evilo

And he has offers from Barcelona, City, Leipzig, but is close to signing with... Monaco.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Everyone wants to go to Monaco


----------



## YNWA14

I was pretty sour about Daishawn Redan leaving Ajax for Chelsea but it's too hard not to appreciate his talent. He's a scoring machine. 17 and playing at the PL2 level for Chelsea (and scoring) and now at the U17 Euro qualifications he's led the Netherlands to a 2 - 0 start, scoring 3 and assisting 1 in the 4 goals that the Netherlands have scored (beating Iceland and Italy); so they're almost guaranteed to go to the Finals at this point.

Can see the highlights of the first two matches here:



Nigel Thomas looks pretty bright as well.


----------



## YNWA14

Liverpool Youngster Rhian Brewster Will Be Promoted to First Team Upon Return From Injury

Huge for Brewster. Hope he can take the chance.

EDIT: Also Harry Wilson has been killing it for Hull. 3 goals and 2 assists so far (also 2 penalties earned, both of which were missed by the penalty taker) in 6 appearances for the club. Pulling them out of the relegation zone. This after he was shown to be too good for the PL2. Very bright start to his loan (despite his injury) and must be giving Klopp some food for thought.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Watch out for this kid. Box to box mid who's basically like a Lampard when it comes to goals and assists. He's also 6'4, can dribble and pass. Parks has been off the radar due to an unconventional career path, but he's slowly been integrated into Benfica's first team this season.


----------



## Savant

YNWA14 said:


> Liverpool Youngster Rhian Brewster Will Be Promoted to First Team Upon Return From Injury
> 
> Huge for Brewster. Hope he can take the chance.
> 
> EDIT: Also Harry Wilson has been killing it for Hull. 3 goals and 2 assists so far (also 2 penalties earned, both of which were missed by the penalty taker) in 6 appearances for the club. Pulling them out of the relegation zone. This after he was shown to be too good for the PL2. Very bright start to his loan (despite his injury) and must be giving Klopp some food for thought.



Wilson (and Woodburn) both called up for Wales.


----------



## YNWA14

...aaaand Wilson gets his first goal in his first start for Wales. Pretty nice finish, too.



He also had one or two assists and was generally praised throughout the game. Not the toughest opposition obviously but his season just keeps getting better. Glad that they convinced him to sign another contract.


----------



## Fulham

Talented Liverpool youngster Liam Millar got his first cap for Canada today against NZ and played extremely well, apparently had ENG, interest but his father is a Voyageur (CMNT ultra group) member and Liam grew up a big CMNT fan, been processing well in Liverpools youth setup after he was snapped up from Fulham at age 16


----------



## YNWA14

NxGn 2018: The 50 best teenagers in the world

Two Dutch kids in the top 5. As always these lists with a 'pinch of salt' (it looks to me like the cutoff is '99 born before people start talking about omissions, but I'm not 100% sure since I didn't check every prospect's age).

I'll probably do an updated Dutch list sooner than later.


----------



## Evilo

Cool to know Mbappe isn't good enough.


----------



## YNWA14

YNWA14 said:


> NxGn 2018: The 50 best teenagers in the world
> 
> Two Dutch kids in the top 5. As always these lists with a 'pinch of salt' (*it looks to me like the cutoff is '99 born before people start talking about omissions*, but I'm not 100% sure since I didn't check every prospect's age).
> 
> I'll probably do an updated Dutch list sooner than later.





Evilo said:


> Cool to know Mbappe isn't good enough.



Mbappe was the first player I thought of when coming to the conclusion above. I'm assuming they left out 98 and lower because those players will (mostly) not be teenagers anymore this year.


----------



## Evilo

Ha missed it sorry.
Mbappe is 20 in december though.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Not sure I'd list Weah if I was to list an American player, but he's on the books of PSG and his father is George Weah, so its an easy addition.


----------



## cgf

lol Timothy Tillman, talk about a massively over-hyped young talent


----------



## YNWA14

*Dutch Prospects*

*1997**1998**1999**2000**2001**2002**2003*Frenkie de JongCarel EitingJustin KluivertKik PierieChieck ToureJayden BraafXavi SimonsDonny van de BeekTimothy Fosu-MensahMathijs de LigtDelano LadanDaishawn RedanRyan GravenberchNaci UnuvarSteven BergwijnRick van DrongelenFerdi KadiogluAchraf el BouchataouiMyron BoaduBrian Brobbey Calvin VerdonkTeun KoopmeinersPerr SchuursZakaria AboukhlalKenzo Goudmijn  Sam LammersKaj SierhuisNoa LangLudovit ReisWouter Burger  Arnaut GroeneveldJavairo DilrosunJoel PiroeMitchel BakkerLiam van Gelderen   Sam van HuffelDonyell MalenLutsharel GeertruidaNigel Thomas    Che NunnelyOrkun KokcuEnric Llansana    Bobby AdekanyeJuan Familia Castillo     Tahith ChongThomas Buitink     Armando Obispo    
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]
Top prospects in each age group. My top 5 atm would probably Frenkie de Jong, Justin Kluivert, Mathijs de Ligt, Daishawn Redan and Orkun Kokcu in some order. Xavi Simons and Naci Unuvar are both supertalents but have a long way to go. Chelsea just signed Braaf (they can start ****ing off any time they want buying and ruining Dutch talents). Groeneveld is a really interesting case because he seems to have all the tools to be a really good player but didn't break out until playing in the Dutch 2nd division (Mertens took a similar route, fwiw).

I don't rank keepers because it's too hard to judge them before they get to the top level (imo).

In 4 years I'd love for our NT to have some variation of this:

TFM - de Ligt - van Dijk - Bakker
van de Beek - de Jong - Vilhena
Bergwijn - Redan - Kluivert


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Pierie is good, also eligible for the USA, but I doubt he'll be bad enough to play for us.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> lol Timothy Tillman, talk about a massively over-hyped young talent



I'm assuming he isn't german


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I'm assuming he isn't german




He is currently...but he’ll end up having to play for the Americans at the senior level


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> He is currently...but he’ll end up having to play for the Americans at the senior level




If he's good enough.


----------



## John Pedro

YNWA14 said:


> *Dutch Prospects*
> 
> *1997**1998**1999**2000**2001**2002**2003*Frenkie de JongCarel EitingJustin KluivertKik PierieChieck ToureJayden BraafXavi SimonsDonny van de BeekTimothy Fosu-MensahMathijs de LigtDelano LadanDaishawn RedanRyan GravenberchNaci UnuvarSteven BergwijnRick van DrongelenFerdi KadiogluAchraf el BouchataouiMyron BoaduBrian BrobbeyCalvin VerdonkTeun KoopmeinersPerr SchuursZakaria AboukhlalKenzo GoudmijnSam LammersKaj SierhuisNoa LangLudovit ReisWouter BurgerArnaut GroeneveldJavairo DilrosunJoel PiroeMitchel BakkerLiam van GelderenSam van HuffelDonyell MalenLutsharel GeertruidaNigel ThomasChe NunnelyOrkun KokcuEnric LlansanaBobby AdekanyeJuan Familia CastilloTahith ChongThomas BuitinkArmando Obispo
> [TBODY]
> [/TBODY]Top prospects in each age group. My top 5 atm would probably Frenkie de Jong, Justin Kluivert, Mathijs de Ligt, Daishawn Redan and Orkun Kokcu in some order. Xavi Simons and Naci Unuvar are both supertalents but have a long way to go. Chelsea just signed Braaf (they can start ****ing off any time they want buying and ruining Dutch talents). Groeneveld is a really interesting case because he seems to have all the tools to be a really good player but didn't break out until playing in the Dutch 2nd division (Mertens took a similar route, fwiw).
> 
> I don't rank keepers because it's too hard to judge them before they get to the top level (imo).
> 
> In 4 years I'd love for our NT to have some variation of this:
> 
> TFM - de Ligt - van Dijk - Bakker
> van de Beek - de Jong - Vilhena
> Bergwijn - Redan - Kluivert




How do you see Ekkelenkamp as a prospect? Is he a potential starter for Ajax/NT?


----------



## YNWA14

John Pedro said:


> How do you see Ekkelenkamp as a prospect? Is he a potential starter for Ajax/NT?



Potential starter for Ajax yes but I think with the midfield talent we have coming up he would have to be pretty lucky to get into the NT. Technically he's not great and he's not a great athlete either. He seems to be pretty smart and productive but I would compare him more to a Siem de Jong or maybe even Davy Klaassen (if everything goes right for him) type prospect. There isn't anything super special there but he can be a pretty good all around footballer.


----------



## Savant

I saw Tim Weah live for the first time on Tuesday. Only got 5 minutes but certainly didn't look out of place. Very comfortable with the ball not afraid to run at players, won a free kick that could have been dangerous if he had better team mates to take it. its a shame he didnt get more minutes. 

So yeah I scout PSG young players now too. Eat your heart out @Evilo


----------



## Evilo




----------



## YNWA14

Sooo after having posted that list the prestigious 'Future Cup' (u17) was won by Ajax (beating Juventus in the final) this weekend and Naci Unuvar ('03) became the youngest player to ever compete in the tournament, finished as the tournament top scorer (also the all time tournament leader in goals with 7) and scored both of Ajax's goals in the final. Supertalent.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri




----------



## Savant

For the Canadians on here:

The next Academy star 'perfect' for Klopp's Liverpool identified

Millar is probably comes in after Brewster and Jones in terms of Liverpool's prospects, but it's clear they have an eye on him.


----------



## John Pedro

YNWA14 said:


> Potential starter for Ajax yes but I think with the midfield talent we have coming up he would have to be pretty lucky to get into the NT. Technically he's not great and he's not a great athlete either. He seems to be pretty smart and productive but I would compare him more to a Siem de Jong or maybe even Davy Klaassen (if everything goes right for him) type prospect. There isn't anything super special there but he can be a pretty good all around footballer.




Seems like Ajax has promoted Azor Matusiwa to their first team. Do you know/like him? Ekkelenkamp also up with 1st team.


----------



## YNWA14

John Pedro said:


> Seems like Ajax has promoted Azor Matusiwa to their first team. Do you know/like him? Ekkelenkamp also up with 1st team.




A little surprised he's been called up. He's never stood out. A small ball winner with no real standout qualities IMO, not that I've paid much attention to him. But if you're not standing out in youth games generally that's not a good indicator for future success (though some are late bloomers).


----------



## Deficient Mode

Moukoko is up to 34 goals in 20 matches this year for the BVB U17s I believe. Apparently scored a couple stunning goals today. Got a hat trick. Still 13 years old...


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> Moukoko is up to 34 goals in 20 matches this year for the BVB U17s I believe. Apparently scored a couple stunning goals today. Got a hat trick. Still 13 years old...




Our NT better score all of the goals in the 2020s when we can pick between him, Werner, Eggestein, Arp, Sane, Brandt, OBM, Kuhn and Yeboah, to lead our line 

Those kids all have the talent to start for a CL winner someday. So it’ll be fun to follow their growth & see which of them actually continue to develop well; as well as which late bloomers can pull a Sane and join that tier.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

7:30. Watch.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> 7:30. Watch.





Pfffft. Scrubby first touch. 2/10. Sell him immediately.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

He needs 10 goals over the last 4 to break the league record, despite being 3 years younger than most in the league.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

delete


----------



## cgf

Just some fun german U23s (I stopped at the 2001ers, exception being Moukouko):
​*Lineups (mostly by current level/form & senior team readiness...i.e what we could look like at a U23 tourney this summer or next):
*
3-4-3/3-2-4-1/3-4-2-1 (facing a parked bus)
*Werner*/Arp/Selke
*Eggestein*/Evina - *Goretzka*/Kühn
*Sane*/G.L. Itter - *Dahoud*/Havertz - *Geiger*/Weigl - Kimmich/*Brandt
Tah*/Torunarigha - *Süle*/Mai - *Kimmich*/Kehrer
*Früchtl*

3-1-5-1/3-6-1/3-1-4-1-1/3-1-5-1/3-4-2-1 (facing a battle for possession)
*Werner*/Arp/Goretzka
*Kühn*/Goretzka - *Havertz*/Amiri
*Sane*/G.L. Itter - *Dahoud*/Meyer - *Geiger*/Weigl - *Kimmich*/Brandt
*Tah*/Torunarigha - *Süle*/Mai - Kimmich/*Kehrer
Früchtl
*
3-1-4-2 (vers.)
*Eggestein*/Arp* - Werner*/Moukoko
*Sane*/G.L. Itter - *Dahoud*/Amiri - *Havertz*/LeGo - *Kimmich*/Brandt
*Geiger*/Weigl/Meyer
*Tah*/Torunarigha - *Süle*/Mai - Kimmich/*Kehrer
Früchtl*

4-3-3 (vers.)
*Sane*/Kühn/OBM - *Werner*/Arp - *Brandt*/Evina/OBM
*Dahoud*/Amiri - *Havertz*/LeGo
*Geiger*/Weigl/Meyer
*Itter*/Klostermann - *Süle*/Kehrer - *Tah*/Kehrer - *Kimmich*/Henrichs
*Früchtl
*​*Depth Chart (ranked more on potential than current form):
FW (9):* Moukouko (’04, BVB) / Eggestein (’98, Werder) / Makanda (’01, FCN) / Werner (’96, Leipzig) / Arp (’00, HSV) || D. Otto (’99, TSG) / Selke (’95, BSC) / Krüger ('99, S04) / Kiprit ('99, BSC)​*
W (14):* Batista Meier (’01, FCB) / Sane (’96, ManCity) / Kühn* (’00, Ajax) / Evina* (’00, FCB) || Yeboah (’00 FC VW) / Brandt (’96, B04) / Massimo* (’00, Bielefeld) || Herrmann* (’00, FC VW) / Hartmann* ('01 Leipzig) / Gnabry (’95, FCB) / Pohlmann* (’01, FC VW) || Hack (’98, TSG) / Jastrzembski (’00, BSC) / Dardai (’99, BSC)
*
10 (6):* Havertz* (’99, B04) / Abouchabaka* (’00, Leipzig) / Schreck* (’99, B04) || *_Mukhtar_* (’95, Brondby) / Maina (’99, H96) / Barkok (’98, Frankfurt)
*
8 (7):* Mbom (’00, Werder) / Dahoud (’96, BVB) / Goretzka* (’95, FCB) || Schneider (’01, Werder) / Kübler ('99, S04) / Amiri (’96, TSG) / Neuhaus (’97, BMG)
*
6 (8):* Geiger (’98, TSG) / Meyer (’95, S04) / Weigl (’95, BVB) / Maier (’99, BSC) / Kaan Kurt (’01, BMG) || Akkaynak (’99, B04) / Cetin (’00, Frankfurt) / Janelt (’98, Bochum)
*
FB (7):* Kimmich (’95, FCB) / G.L. Itter (’99, FC VW) || Henrichs (’97, B04) / Ludewig (‘00, Leipzig) / Klostermann (’96, Leipzig) / Passlack (’98, BVB) / Mittelstadt (’97, BSC)
*
CB (10):* Tah (’96, B04) / Torunarigha (’97, BSC) / Süle (’95, FCB) / Kehrer (’96, S04) / Mai (’00, FCB) / Aidonis (’01, TSG) / G. Can (’00, S04) || Hanraths (’99, BMG) / Bongard (’01, BMG) / Löwen (’97, FCN)
*
GK (2):* Früchtl (’00, FCB) / Plogmann (’00, Werder)

*may well end up at other positions moving forward; the Wingers at Forward or AM, and the 10s at Winger, the 8, or Forward...and there will probably be other midfielders that are converted into fullbacks; like Lahm, Kimmich & Henrichs were

Mostly Schalke (5), Leipzig (5, was 6 before Kühn left this winter), Bayern (8), Hoffenheim (5), Hertha (7) & Leverkusen (6) properties at the top; with sizeable contingents from Werder (4), Gladbach (4), & Wolfsburg (4). A couple Nürnberg (2) & Frankfurt (2), kids make the cut as well...though Makanda is either set to move from FCN to Frankfurt this summer or already has. And one-offs from Citeh (2 if Nmecha is as good as hyped), Ajax, Brondby, Hannover, Hamburg, Bielefeld & Mainz (once I get enough viewings of Eyibil to rate him as highly as others do).

Also gotta point out that a handful of these kids at bigger clubs have roots in the Bochum & Karlsruhe academies...which have been some of the most productive academies of the past decade despite their senior teams not having even dreamt of returns to the 1st division most seasons; especially when you include the kids who got poached to bigger & richer academies before making the step to the senior level...and hertha would have a few more names high up on theses lists as if they had not lost them to richer & more prestigious academies.

PS There’s a few Mainz kids in the 2000-born (and later) age groups that I need to watch more of, but who may also deserve a place in these rankings...the 2001s & later are generally an age group where I have yet to see all of the bigger talents, thus their exclusion from these & the following rankings:


*2001:*
Oliver Batista Meier (W/AM, Bayern)
Jabez Makanda (FW Nürnberg)
Keanu Schneider (8/10, Werder)
Kaan Kurt (6/8, Gladbach)
Antonis Aidonis (CB, Hoffenheim)
***Erkan Eyibil (AM/FW, Mainz)***

Fabrice Hartmann (FW/W, Leipzig)
Ole Pohlmann (FW/W, Wolfsburg)
Leon Dajaku (FW/W/AM, Stuttgart)
Rene Biskup (FW, Schalke)
Jordi Bongard (CB, Gladbach)
Oliver Bias (FW/W Leipzig)
Bleart Dautaj (FW, Hoffenheim)

Ryan Adigo (W/FW, Gladbach) - BMG rates this BMG 2001-born winger more
Jonas Pfalz (W/FW, Gladbach) - DFB prefers this one
Laurenz Dehl (FW, Union)
Max Brandt (MF, Wolfburg)
Mohamed El Bakali (FW/W, Gladbach)

-A lot of talent in that second group, but I have no clue how to separate it yet as some of them belong in the top tier and some in a third tier, but we need to see how they develop further to start doing so effectively...I'm also not sold that Schneider, Kurt & Aidonis are actually elite like OBM & Makanda seem to be; or if they're just really good talents who look more impressive at the lower levels than they will be at the senior one; but that's not rare for kids who are just turning 17 this year.

A-/B+; the top end looks special, but we'll see just how deep the top end ends up, and I'm still curious about how the next levels develop

*2000:*
Nicolas Kühn (FW/W/AM, Ajax)
Jean-Manuel Mbom (8/AM, Werder)
Elias Abouchabaka (10/8, Leipzig)
Franck Evina (FW/W, Bayern)
Fiete Arp (FW, Hamburg)
Christian Früchtl (GK, Bayern)

John Yeboah (W/WB, Wolfsburg)
Lars Lukas Mai (CB, Bayern)
Sahverdi Cetin (6/8, Frankfurt)
Roberto Massimo (W/AM/FW, Bielefeld) - *Dunno if he’s playing for us or Italy*
Jesaja Herrmann (FW/W, Wolfsburg)

Gorkem Can (CB, Schalke)
Kilian Ludewig (W/WB, Leipzig)
Luca Plogmann (GK, Bremen)
Dennis Jastrzembski (W/SS, Hertha)

Daniel Eidtner (W/FW/AM, Union!!!)
Yannik Keitel (6/8, Freiburg)
Lukas Krüger (FW/W, Leipzig)
Yann Aurel Bisseck (CB, Köln)
Noah Awuku (FW, Holstein Kiel)
Josha Vagnoman (LB/LWB, Hamburg)

-That second tier would be part of the top tier in basically any other age group, and that third tier has more talent than some of the other age groups' second tiers. Hell even the 4th tier kids I could see sitting on the bench for the senior NT some day. There was just a stupid amount of highend talents born after Y2K didn't kill us all...

A/A+; the elite talents are elite as f*** and there's a lot of them. Stacked n deep these kids could be the core of a WM winner for us

*1999:*
Kai Havertz (MF/FW/W, Leverkusen)
Arne Maier (6/8, Hertha)
Gian Luca Itter (LB/LWB, Wolfsburg)
Atakan Akkaynak (8/6, Leverkusen)
Sam Schreck (10/8, Leverkusen)
David Otto (FW, Hoffenheim)
Jannis Kübler (8/10, Schalke)

Florian Krüger (FW, Schalke)
Muhammed Kiprit (FW, Hertha)
Linton Maina (10/FW/W, Hannover)
Palko Dardai (W/FW/10, Hertha)
Mika Hanraths (CB, Gladbach)

Adrian Fein (MF, Bayern)
Torben Müsel (FW, Kaiserslautern)
Benjamin Goller (W/AM, Schalke)
Nikos Zografakis (W/AM, Hertha)
*_Timothy_ _Tillman_* (W/10, Bayern)
Julius Kade (W/AM, Hertha)
Lennard Maloney (CB/8, Union!!!) - can't rank him but his talent objectively belongs in this tier
Lennart Moser (GK, Union!!!) - I suck with goalies but he gets hype from the right people for me to feel confident putting him in this tier despite my homerism.

-I won't argue too much about swapping some of those tier 2 & tier 3 kids...or with bumping Kruger n Kiprit up alongside Akkaynak, Schreck & the Otto that doesn't suck to make that a new second tier; with Havertz, Itter & Maier forming a tier of their own since they are already showing that talent at the senior level. Although with David Otto's massive season, I wanted to put him a tier above Kruger n Kiprit...at least for the moment...and firmly believe that Schreck, Akkaynak & those two will make the transition successfully as well.

B/B+; a very exciting top tier with nice depth, but I question the ceilings & talent levels of the second & third tiers

*1998:*
Johannes Eggestein (FW, Werder)
Dennis Geiger (6/8, Hoffenheim)
Atmen Barkok (AM/W, Frankfurt)
Felix Passlack (FB/WB, Dortmund...on loan at Hoffenheim)
*_Gokhan_ _Gul_* (CB/6, Dusseldorf)

Vitaly Janelt (6/8, Bochum)
Niklas Dorsch (6, Bayern…)
Robin Hack (W/FW, Hoffenheim)
Salih Ozcan (AM/W, Koln)

Gorkem Saglam (AM/FW/W, Bochum)
Felix Gotze (CB, Bayern)
Tim Handwerker (LB, Köln)
Dzenis Burnic (6/CB, Stuttgart)

-Gul almost got caught in my latest cull. This is probably his last appearance if he doesn't break out early next season. The second tier guys can become BuLi starters, but I don't see anyone there ever in the mix for a senior NT spot...although with Janelt & Dorsch that's mostly because of the insane wealth of super talents we have at the 6. Probably woulda split JoJo & Geiger up from Barkok/Passlack/*Gul* if this age group had more talent. Also won't argue with anyone who likes Saglam more than Ozcan.

C-; top tier lacks depth, and the third tier is poor, but the strength of Geiger & Eggestein really carries this group
*
1997:*
Jordan Torunarigha (CB, Hertha)
Benjamin Henrichs (8/FB, Leverkusen)
Florian Neuhaus (8/10, Gladbach)
*_Philipp Ochs_* (W/FW, Hoffenheim)

Maximilian Mittelstadt (LB/LW, Hertha)
*_Amara_ _Conde_* (8/10/W, Wolfsburg)
Cedric Teuchert (FW, Schalke)
Eduard Löwen (CB/6, Nürnberg)

Jannes Horn (LB/LW, Köln)
Suat Serdar (8/10/W, Mainz)
Felix Uduokhai (CB, Wolfsburg)
Lukas Mühl (CB, Nürnberg)
Marvin Mehlem (8, Karlsruhe)

-Conde is in a similar place to Gul with the 98s while Ochs just started to stall this season, and I probably should've split the top tier up after Torunarigh or Henrichs; but this group is so poor in high-end talent that I decided to group what high-end talent there was and give both Ochs n Conde another season to show that their skill is useful at higher levels.

D-/F; Top talent is still very raw and there aren't many of them. Decent depth in guys who can start in the BuLi, but few that'll make a difference for european clubs.
*
1996:*
Leroy Sane (W/WB/FW, Manchester City)
Timo Werner (FW, Leipzig)
Mahmoud Dahoud (8, Dortmund)
Julian Brandt (W/FW, Leverkusen)
Jonathan Tah (CB, Leverkusen)

Nadiem Amiri (8/10, Hoffenheim)
Lukas Klostermann (RB/CB Leipzig)
Thilo Kehrer (CB/FB, Schalke)
*_Levin Oztunali_* (W/AM, Mainz)

Timo Baumgartl (CB, Stuttgart)
Marcel Hartel (AM/W, Union!!!) - no homer
Waldemar Anton (6/CB, Hannover)

Lukas Klünter (RB, Köln)
Robin Koch (CB, Freiburg)
Max Christiansen (6/8, Ingolstadt)
Maximilian Eggestein (6, Werder)
Pascal Stenzel (RB, Freiburg)

-Top two tiers all have the talent & smarts to play for the NT, if not in russia then certainly by 2020. Maybe not all as indispensable starters, but at least as quality starters & top backups...though I am losing hope in Oztunali, he just doesn't have the mind to match his speed & skill. The third tier can be solid BuLi starters for the EL or midtable clubs.

A+; unreal top tier that's deeeeep, third tier isn't too special but those are still quality talents and the top two are phenomenal.

*1995:*
Joshua Kimmich (6/FB/WB/CB, Bayern)
Julian Weigl (6, Dortmund)
Niklas Sule (CB, Bayern)
Leon Goretzka (8/FW, Schalke)
Max Meyer (6, Schalke)

Serge Gnabry (W/WB/FW, Bayern…on loan at Hoffenheim)
Davie Selke (FW, Hertha)
*_Hany_ _Mukhtar_* (AM, Brondby)

Marc Oliver Kempf (CB, Freiburg)
*_Marc Stendera_* (8, Frankfurt)
Niklas Stark (CB, Hertha)
Marius Wolf (W, Frankfurt)
Kevin Akpoguma (CB, Hoffenheim)
Robert Bauer (RB/CB, Werder)

-Again the top two tiers all have the talent to fit in nicely on the NT, though Gnabry, Selke & Mukhtar do need to break out at the highest level and show that they can use their immense raw talent to great effect against the best of the best; and so have more question marks than do Amiri, Klostermann & Kehrer.

These third-tier guys actually have the talent to give the NT depth in times of injury, or start for a CL club, if they can make some more progress...Kempf, in particular, I like a lot and only isn't in the second tier because he doesn't have the pure ceiling that those three do. If not for the depth of talents that have truly elite potential in this age group, that third tier would probably be split into the new 2nd tier and a third tier more in line with other age groups.

A; strong & deep top end, with excellent depth and a couple more potentially-elite wildcards. Really waffled on whether to give these guys, the 96ers, or the 2000ers the highest grade...and the 2001ers look like they could be in this tier as well



*_name_* (position, club)...are guys I'm losing hope in. Usually, these types drop tiers rapidly, if not outright bust...though Demirbay was in this category for a long time, before breaking out (even falling off my lists entirely briefly before his move to Dusseldorf); Max Meyer was half a season away from getting this designation before Tedesco moved him to the 6; Stendera is only there because of his health; and Mukhtar will lose his asterisks if he can repeat his performances in a stronger league. So it's not always the kiss of death...like it was for Kurt, Avdijaj, Bunjaki, Dadachov & Yesil.


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## cgf

For comparison here's how I'd list the top talents from prior age groups:

*1994:*
Philipp (FW/W, Dortmund)
Weiser (FB/WB/W, Hertha)
E. Can (8/FB, Liverpool)

Ginter (CB/FB, Gladbach)
Arnold (8/FB, Wolfsburg)
Pollersbeck (GK, Ha mburg)

Haberer (FW/10/8, Freiburg)
Vlachodimas (GK, Panathinaikos)
Gerhardt (8/FB, Wolfsburg)
Toljan (FB, Dortmund)

D/D+

*1993:*
Draxler (FW/W/10, PSG)
Demirbay (8/10, Hoffenheim)

Horn (GK, Köln)
Karius (GK, Liverpool)
Rüdiger (CB/FB, Chelsea)
Geis (6, Sevilla)

Füllkrug (FW, Hannover)
Max (LB/LWB, Augbsurg)
Younes (W, Ajax)
Heintz (CB, Köln)

B/B+

*1992:*
MAtS (GK, Barcelona)
Götze (8/10, Dortmund

Volland (FW/W, Leverkusen)
Plattenhart (LB/LWB, Hertha)
Leno (GK, Leverkusen)
Schwolow (GK, Freiburg)

Orban (CB, Leipzig)
Mustafi (CB, Arsenal)

A-/B+

*1991:*
Kramer (8/6, Gladbach)
Uth (FW, Schalke)
Vogt (CB, Hoffenheim)

Groß (8/6, Brighton)

Halstenberg (LB/LWB, Leipzig)
Bell (CB, Mainz)

D-/F

*1990:*
Kroos (6, Real Madrid)
Gundogan (8, ManCity)

Rudy (6/FB/WB, Bayern)
Baumann (GK, Hoffenheim)
Trapp (GK, PSG)
Hector (LB/LWB, Köln)

Bellarabi (W, Leverkusen
Didavi (AM/W, Wolfsburg)
Schurrle (FW/W, Dortmund)

A-/B+

*1989:*
Reus (FW/W, Dortmund)
Muller (FW/W, Bayern)

Hübner (CB, Hoffenheim)

Oczipka (LB/LWB, Schalke)

B+/B

*1988:*
Hummels (CB, Bayern)
Boateng (CB, Bayern)
Özil (10, Arsenal)

Stindl (FW/W/AM, Gladbach)
Kruse (FW, Bremen)

Fahrmann (GK, Schalke)

A/A+


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## cgf

btw have any of y'all that follow the english academies seen much of Felix Nmecha ('00)? He was one of the guys I got yelled at for not including in my lists, and unlike the other names that came up (other than Erkan Eyibil & the other Mainz boys), I haven't seen him at all as he only recently switched to the DFB and doesn't play for a german academy team that I track.

Nmecha & his older brother, Lukas, are Hamburg born Manchester City academy members. Lukas is still playing for england, but Felix switched to germany after leaving the English u16s.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Can I get your opinion on a few of the players eligible for the USA? Timothy and Malik Tillman, Lennard Maloney, Maurice Malone, Justin Butler?


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## cgf

Timothy Tillman just never impresses me, like Shabani (another Bayern AM/W), I just don’t see a stand out at the next levels. Malik I have much bigger hopes for if he can progress well, kid looks like he could become the player Zelalem was supposed to be.

Malone has good size which serves him well against kids and is why he’ll break through early, but he’s another I just don’t really rate for the senior level. He would slot in right behind Awuku as a plan B, if I had included him.

Butler I don’t have an opinion on; and Maloney I can’t be objective about because of the team he plays for. I think he has EL starter potential (if not more), but Eidtner is still the crown jewel of our youth teams.


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## Savant

@YNWA14 Adekamye just scored a great goal again Chelsea u23


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## YNWA14

Savant said:


> @YNWA14 Adekamye just scored a great goal again Chelsea u23



Nice, can't watch atm will probably catch the game later. Adekanye is a talent though; hope his injury issues are behind him.


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## Paulie Gualtieri

Please re-sign, I beg you.


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## Cassano

Reiss Nelson won PL2 player of the season. 

Not really surprising.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

I might as well write up my 2018 list of US prospects. Skip this post if you don't care to read about American players.

Same format. Only will list players who are eligible for the US youth teams, and are currently playing for the USA. I included one exception towards the bottom of the list, but read on to find out about that. I rank mostly on potential. Don’t care as much about who becomes an average professional.

Only will list from years 1997-2001. The players younger than those years are too young to include in lists with players who have already played 50+ first team matches. I didn’t even include many players in the 2001 year since its hard to compare them to players in 1997, for example.

I have a separate list for keepers where I described the keeper pool in each of those years. I also included two players to watch for in the 2002 and 2003 years.

Lists from previous years:

2017: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...sion-thread-iv.2039219/page-24#post-132535631
2016: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=118365381&postcount=163
2015:http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=100037677&postcount=636

2018 List:

1. Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund-1998): No one has unseated him yet, but his play this season kind of helps the point that it could happen eventually. He’s really good, but he needs to improve end product from this season to be spectacular. Didn’t have a good year with Dortmund, but was great with the National Team. He has games where he’s absolutely unplayable and can run circles around any full-back, but we need to see that more often.
2. Weston McKennie (Schalke-1998): Moves up to #2. He had a breakout season with Schalke. I saw it coming. He has been on a big-time upward ascendancy the last few years. He is a physical monster, despite only being around 5’10. Works so hard, very good in the air, excellent tackler. He’s also a good passer with a quality football IQ and has composure on the ball. Needs to improve his play in the opposition box. No goals or assists this season. That’s something he’s always struggled with.
3. Erik Palmer-Brown (Kortrijk via Man City-1997): Parlayed his success at U20 international level into a contract with Man City. Loaned out to Belgium at end of winter window, and has settled in well the past few months. Really talented CB who needs games. Once he gets that, I think he has a chance to be very good on the continent. Excellent athlete who is very comfortable on the ball and reads the game well defensively. He’s had a lot of pitfalls so far with bad-luck injuries and club situations that have limited his first division matches so far in his career.
4. Andrew Carleton (Atlanta United-2000): Technically superb CAM. He can bypass defenders with ridiculous passing vision and offensive creativity. Also a free-kick specialist who scores his share of goals. Lacking first team playing time right now because his club team is the best team in the league and he’s still only 17, so it’s hard for him to get many minutes. Average speed and athleticism is the main thing standing in his way from being an excellent professional player.
5. Konrad de la Fuente (FC Barcelona Juvenil A-2001): Electrifying winger who plays a pretty well-rounded game. Can score, assist, dribble and pass. He’s a very good athlete, also some positional versatility. Late in the season was moved up to an older age group at Barcelona along with one other player from his age group.
6. Haji Wright (Sandhausen via Schalke-1998): A center forward who had a really good preseason with Schalke, but then was sent out on loan. Struggled for minutes in his first professional season. He started well, but played less as the season went on. Only had three appearances after the winter break, and less than 600 for the full season. He has excellent talent, but is still a raw player. Might need some years to develop his game completely.
7. Justen Glad (Real Salt Lake-1997): Really unheralded CB who US fans don’t talk about enough, but he’s becomes one of the best defenders in MLS. He’s ready to move onto Europe. He’s mobile, very good defensively, and can pass the ball. Not overwhelming physically, but not a liability.
8. Keaton Parks (Benfica-1997): Interesting backstory. Was playing out of sight with his high school and then a lower US league team until around 18. Signed in the second division of Portugal. Did well there, got transferred to Benfica, A dispute with the transfer made him sit out half a season. 6’4 box to box CM who finds ways to score or assist goals. Excellent in the air, very good passer and dribbler. Moves well enough. Learning how to defend right now. Raw player with big potential. Slowly being integrated into Benfica first team.
9. Tim Weah (PSG-2000): Raw striker, but I’ve become a big fan of his game. There are presently better players I could list, but I think he has big potential when you consider his natural finishing ability, high quality runs he makes, and pace. Much better as a CF, but can play as a winger. Pretty much just a goal-scorer, doesn’t dribble or pass that well.
10. Josh Sargent (Werder Bremen-2000): CF from the same year as Weah. I think he’s a better current player than Weah. Not sure he has the same potential as Weah. Hard working CF, good in the air, has good mobility for his size, and he scores goals in just about every way. Pretty average technically, and I'm not sure he does anything great, besides potentially scoring goals, but we'll see if he can score goals at a great rate as a pro. I'm not sure. Joining Werder Bremen this summer, and is supposedly going to go straight into the first team.
11. Cameron Carter-Vickers (Ipswich via Spurs-1997): I’ve kind of soured on his potential. I think he can still be a good player, but I don’t think his potential is very high. He defends well, but he’s average at best athletically and on the ball. He had a very good loan at Ipswich. I don’t know if Spurs will ever integrate him, but I think he’ll be a good Premier League CB. I’m just not sure it’ll be a very talented one. He’ll get by though on toughness, smarts, positioning, aerial ability.
12. Tyler Adams (New York Red Bulls-1999): Some people like his game way more than me, so I warn that I’m not his biggest fan. Already integrated into the Senior National Team, and he’s doing well in MLS. Very versatile player. He can play like 5 positions on the field, FB spots and all three CM spots. I don’t think he’s good as a CM. I would only play him as a full-back/wing-back. He has a ridiculous motor, athletic player, some bouts of skill, but I don’t like his positioning or passing and he’s not physically imposing. Therefore, I don’t think he’s a CM.
13. Paxton Pomykal (FC Dallas-1999): Struggled the last year with injuries and playing time. He’s a CAM, but he can play box to box or as a winger. Very skilled. Scores and assists goals. Very good in combination play, smart player. Potential is high. Under the radar though. Most of his best performances come in reserve games, and with US junior teams instead of club’s first team.
14. Jonathan Amon (FC Nordsjaelland-1999): Recent breakout star. He was a regular in his US age groups until around 15, but then he disappeared. No one knew where he went. Nordsjaelland had spotted him, and then hid him from sight until he turned 18 for fear bigger clubs would sign him. Reappeared last summer, and was instantly doing well for their first team. Very athletic winger who dribbles incredibly well. Good end product, skilled, and a better passer than one might think. Reminiscent of Sadio Mane.
15. Taylor Booth (Unattached-2001): He’ll be joining Bayern Munich U-19 either in the summer, in the winter or the following summer. Depends on when he gets his Italian passport. He can play all three CM positions, but is best in the box-to-box role. Superb passer. Can play any pass on the field. Very smart player who almost always makes the right decision. He’s not a great athlete and only has average size, but he’s good defensively. Scores goals, assists them.
16. Chris Durkin (DC United-2000): Absolute warrior of a defensive midfielder, but he’s also a very good passer with composure on the ball. He’s recently broken into the starting lineup of DC United, and is showing well. Doesn’t play the most exciting role, but he’s very good. Some critique his athleticism, but I don’t see the issue. It’s not that bad, and he’s not known for that part of the game.
17. Danilo Acosta (Real Salt Lake-1997): The biggest LB talent the USA has who currently is a first team pro, but he had a feud with his club coach over some “off-field” issue and he’s barely played this season because of it. This is also not the first time the coach has disciplined him. There might’ve been no American player who improved as much in 2017 as Acosta. It’s a shame these issues are keeping him off the field.
18. Julian Araujo (US Barcelona Academy-2001): He’s a position-less player. He plays CB, but I don’t think he’ll be tall enough to play CB, even though he’s good in the air. Best ball-playing CB I’ve seen from the USA. He can spring goals, and dribble 30-40 yards out of the back. He’s also good defensively, taking into consideration he plays a high-risk game. I think he’ll play as a defensive midfielder in the pros, but he’s yet to play there. Plays CB for the USA, RB for his club team. Such a big talent. If he were two inches taller, he’d be 10-15 spots higher on this list.
19. Reggie Cannon (FC Dallas-1998): He’s broken into the starting lineup this season, and is starting to play well. He plays RB. Very athletic player who defends well. He has some ability going forward, although not that much. Not the highest potential, but there aren’t many quality full-backs in his age group.
20. Antonee Robinson (Bolton via Everton-1997): He’s a LB who had a good season on loan at Bolton. He’s struggled with injuries in recent years, so he’s behind the curve with his development, but he does have good potential. He’s good going forward and very athletic. He could work on his defense, but he’s a pretty good LB, and someone who I think is close to getting capped for the National Team.
21. Nick Taitague (Schalke U19-1999): Big talent, but he struggles to stay healthy, and that’s hampered him this season. I think he’ll get a first team contract with Schalke after this season, but I’m not sure. He plays as a winger, can also play as a CAM. Tremendous ball skills and tricks, also fast and a good dribbler. His end product is a problem, along with the injuries.
22. Josh Perez (Livorno via Fiorentina-1998): Struggled for minutes on loan this season. Left-footed attacking mid who likes to come from the right and cut in on his left. Can also play centrally or on the left. Good passer and also a smart player. I believe in his talent, but he hasn’t had the best year and a half of football.
23. Djordje Mihailovic (Chicago Fire-1998): He plays as a CM, more of an attacking CM than defensive, although I could see him used in all three positions. He tore his ACL the last match of last season. It’s too bad because he was starting to improve. Good technically, good in possession, he has some creativity, and he doesn’t have bad size for the position. He should be returning to the field soon.
24. Auston Trusty (Philadelphia Union-1998) Towering CB who has recently earned a spot in the starting lineup, and played well. He moves better than you’d think. He can cover some ground, but he struggles defending quick players. Not a good passer either, but good positional defender who is dominant in the air and not a bad athlete.
25. Sebastian Soto (Real Salt Lake U19-2000): He is shattering goal records in the youth leagues. He recently was called into a U19 camp for the USA, and won the Golden Boot at the tournament. He’s a CF, and he has good height to go along with excellent finishing ability. He’s overshadowed in his age group by Weah and Sargent, but I wouldn’t rule out that he might be better than both of them eventually.
26. Chris Richards (FC Dallas-2000): Another recent breakout player. He plays CB, and he’s very athletic. He also reads the game well, and has some ability on the ball. Very solid performer who recently was signed to a pro contract in Dallas.
27. Jacob Akanyirige (San Jose Earthquakes-2001): The youngest player on this list. He was born on the second to last day of 2001. Akanyirige is yet another CB. He might be the best athlete of any CB on this list. He’s pretty raw, but he’s making big improvements. He’s a very good carrier, he has ridiculous speed for a CB. I think his passing is only average, but he moves so well that he can carry the ball instead of pass it. Smart defensive player who has been developing physically recently. Incredibly high potential. He could skyrocket up this list next year.
28. Jeremy Ebobisse (Portland Timbers-1997): A goal scoring CF who unfortunately does not play very much for his club team. He does well when they let him on the field, but its not often. He has good height, he can hold up the ball and some skill on the ball, but he’s mostly a finisher. At this point, he’s ready to play regularly, and he might need to change clubs.
29. Chris Gloster (Hannover U19-2000): He’s one of the better LB’s in the system. I’ve soured on his game some. He was awful at the U17 WC, especially in the knockout loss to England. It could’ve just been a bad tournament because I’ve seen really consistent performances before where he showcased a high defensive IQ and good athleticism getting up and down the left side.
30. Jaylin Lindsey (Sporting Kansas City-2000): Lindsey is the right-sided version of Gloster. They’ve been the starting right and left full-backs in their age group for years, and both are good prospects who play very similar styles. What I worry about here is that he plays for a dinosaur club coach who doesn’t like playing young players.
31. Chris Goslin (Atlanta United-2000): Box to box CM who has a knack for scoring goals. He’s also a set-piece specialist. Hard worker, good defensively, good athlete. His passing isn’t all that good, but he’s not a complete liability.
32. Richie Ledezma (Real Salt Lake U19-2000): Silky box-to-box CM who can also play in attacking positions. Good passer, he has composure on the ball, the ability to dribble. He only recently has become a highly-touted player, so he could be someone who is much higher on this list in a few years. Reminds me some of Mo Dahoud.
33. Mark McKenzie (Philadelphia Union-1999): He’s a CB with good mobility. He defends pretty well, and can also pass the ball. Not great at any attribute, but a reliable defender. Not the tallest CB, also capable of playing LB. He’s the third CB at his club team, and has done well so far in limited minutes.
34. Sam Rogers (Seattle Sounders II-1999): He’s a CB. You are starting to get the theme. The USA is producing a lot of good CB’s. Tall player who is very well built, dominant in the air. Not the best mobility, and raw defensively because his soccer IQ isn’t very good. Good passer of the ball.
35. Ulysses Llanez (LA Galaxy II-2001): Left-winger who likes to cut in on his right and shoot. Very good dribbler who has excellent acceleration, which allows him to skip past defenders. Goal scorer more than a set-up guy, although he’s not incapable at creating chances for teammates.
36. Brooks Lennon (Real Salt Lake-1997): Recently converted to RB from winger. I think he’s best as a striker. I don’t really understand using him as a RB because he’s not very athletic, but he’s a starter for his club team, and isn’t doing that bad, so he probably has a higher floor than most players on this list. Excellent crosser of the ball, very good set piece taker, good finisher. Average defender, average athlete, not much of a dribbler or creative player.
37. Tommy Redding (New York Red Bulls-1997): He’s had a very rough start at a new club. He plays CB and he was somewhat good in recent seasons with his former team, especially for a young player. He got injured in preseason, struggled in the one match he played, and has been in the reserves since. He passes well, reads the game well defensively, and is somewhat mobile. I wouldn’t write him off yet, and I might be underrating him based on a rough start to the season. I believe he’s injured again though.
38. Ben Mines (New York Red Bulls-2000): He plays as a winger, and he scored on his debut, but hasn’t played since. I’m not sure he’s the most talented player, but he’s a good athlete, works hard, and can finish. Players from the NYRB academy also tend to develop well, so that’s something I am taking into consideration here.
39. James Sands (New York City FC-2000): He plays as a defensive midfielder. Pretty generic player. Average size, passing, defensive play, athleticism. I don’t think he has a high ceiling, but he also should have a reasonable chance to be a decent professional, and maybe a National Team player.
40. Sergino Dest (Ajax U19-2000): He plays as a full-back, capable of playing on either side. He is pretty good on the ball going forward. Good, not great athlete. Good, not great defender. I might be underrating him here. Not the most exciting player, but reliable, and usually puts in good perforamnces.

Keepers:

1997: There are three keepers here who could have a decent future. Jonathan Klinsmann at Hertha Berlin. Good reflexes and good height, but he’s error prone. He got his debut this season, and did very well. Justin Vom Steeg is a more refined version of Klinsmann. He’s the back up for LA Galaxy right now. JT Marcinkowski isn’t as athletic and doesn’t have the same height as the other two, but is a good organizer of his defense and very consistent. He’s playing for San Jose right now in their reserve team.

1998: Not much here. No one has really made a name for themselves recently. Two main names are Will Pulisic and Kevin Silva. Pulisic is a pretty generic keeper, but did gain accolades in his first season of college soccer. Silva is more talented with very quick reflexes, but he played behind a terrible team this season that constantly hung him out to dry, so it’s hard to tell about his progress.

1999: Good year for US keepers. The three main keepers are Eric Lopez, Trey Muse and Brady Scott. Scott is the most polished and probably the best. He’s not the best athlete, but he’s a good enough athlete, and has good height. He’s playing right now at FC Koln, and got to sit on the first team bench in a Cup match early in the season, which is an accomplishment. Lopez and Muse are somewhat similar to Scott in playing style. Lopez has the most pro experience of all of them, and is progressing well in the LA Galaxy reserves. Muse had an excellent season in college soccer.

2000: Another good year for US keepers. Justin Garces is likely the most talented of all the keepers from 1997-2001. He was the starting keeper for the U17 WC team. He has good height, excellent reflexes, and tremendous ball-playing ability for a keeper. He’s playing in the Atlanta academy. Carlos Dos Santos plays in the Benfica academy. Good height and decent shot stopper. Looks like a pretty generic keeper. Sam Fowler is another highly rated player keeper in this year, but I’ve not seen him play enough to give an opinion.

2001: Not a good year for American keepers. Three best are Kris Shakes in the Philly Union academy, David Ochoa in the Real Salt Lake academy, and Nico Defreitas-Hansen in the Everton academy. Shakes is more of an athletic keeper, Ochoa and Defreitas-Hansen are tall keepers. None are particularly good.

2002 Players to Watch For:

Damian Las: Looks like the best keeper in the US youth system, and probably the best American player in his age group right now. Outstanding reflexes, organizes his back line really well already, and he has good height. He plays in the Chicago Fire academy.

Joe Scally: He’s a RB who was born on the last day of 2002, so he’s very young for his age group, but he’s very good already. Tremendous athlete. Good height, but also fast and powerful. Oustanding leaper who rarely loses headers. He combines well going forward, can put in crosses, but he’s also a very smart player, and he defends very well. Did an excellent job with the first team in preseason days/weeks after turning 15, and was signed to a first team contract recently with NYCFC. Highest potential full-back in the system.

2003 Players to Watch For:

Moses Nyeman: Not yet eligible yet for US youth teams, but I’m going to list him anyway because he’s an elite talent, and likely will be eligible eventually. He might be the biggest talent in the US system. He plays as a CM/AM. He does just about everything at an elite level, whether its athleticism, motor, speed, dribbling, technical ability, football IQ, creativity, passing, etc. A little undersized, but he’s also 14 years old. Takes over just about every game he plays. He plays in an older age group, but even those players can’t keep up with him. Just way too talented. Plays for the DC United academy.

Mauricio Cuevas: The Captain for the U16 National Team. He’s a RB who plays in the LA Galaxy academy. Good athlete who has good skill going forward, and I like his defense. He’s shown very well at both the National Team and club levels.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Rodrygo has a 9 minute hat-trick for Santos. 

@John Pedro


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## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Rodrygo has a 9 minute hat-trick for Santos.
> 
> @John Pedro




Wasn't watching the game, but saw it on twitter. Pretty impressive. Like Neymar, Rodrygo scores a lot of goals for a winger.


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## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> Wasn't watching the game, but saw it on twitter. Pretty impressive. Like Neymar, Rodrygo scores a lot of goals for a winger.




Best SA prospect?


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## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> ...




Meant to ask you this ages ago, but how would your youth depth chart look for the US, order by realistic potential? Something like:

*FW:* Weah | Wright | Sargent
*W:* Pulisic | de la Fuente | Amon | Taitague | Pomykal
*AM:* Parks | Carleton | Pomykal | Taitague | Booth
*6:* McKennie| Araujo | Booth | Adams | Durkin
*FB:* Acosta | Adams | Robinson | Araujo | Cannon
*CB:* Palmer-Brown | Carter-Vickers | Glad | Araujo

?


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## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Best SA prospect?




I'd say yes, some people like Vinicius Jr better, though. Depends on if you still consider a guy like Lautaro a prospect too, he's the best player in SA alongside Luan, imo.


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## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> I'd say yes, some people like Vinicius Jr better, though. Depends on if you still consider a guy like Lautaro a prospect too, he's the best player in SA alongside Luan, imo.




I still consider Lautaro a prospect of course...but if Rodrygo is getting compared to Neymar than he blows Martinez out of the water no?


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## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I still consider Lautaro a prospect of course...but if Rodrygo is getting compared to Neymar than he blows Martinez out of the water no?




In terms of upside? yes, Lautaro is the better player right now, though. If we talking about what they can become, I'd take Rodrygo then Vini then Lautaro. Lautaro has the highest floor of the three, imo.


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## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> In terms of upside? yes, Lautaro is the better player right now, though. If we talking about what they can become, I'd take Rodrygo then Vini then Lautaro. Lautaro has the highest floor of the three, imo.




Yeah, I always look at who has the highest potential when looking at prospects. Regardless, of how likely they will reach it. From what I've seen of Lautaro I expect him to be in the Kun lite tier. Great but just not a guy that can carry a team. Ala Suarez with Liverpool.


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## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Yeah, I always look at who has the highest potential when looking at prospects. Regardless, of how likely they will reach it. From what I've seen of Lautaro I expect him to be in the Kun lite tier. Great but just not a guy that can carry a team. Ala Suarez with Liverpool.




I could see Lautaro become as good as Dybala in a different position. Kid is a killer finisher and he could work beautifully in a number 10 role given his dribbling, pace and vision. Plus, he works his butt off. There are very few strikers with that kind of skillset.


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## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> I could see Lautaro become as good as Dybala in a different position. Kid is a killer finisher and he could work beautifully in a number 10 role given his dribbling, pace and vision. Plus, he works his butt off. There are very few strikers with that kind of skillset.




You think he can be as good as the best player in the world lool? 

Both should be deployed as 9, that's where they are best at. In 2022 though it will be interesting with Messi taking less of a role

Martinez
Lo Celso-Dybala-Correa/Lanzini/Barco/Messi
Paredes-Ascacibar
Tagliafico-Mammana/Martinez-Foyth-Bustos
Rulli/Werner

Now that's a respectable well balanced team. Shame some of them can't be incorapated now and that backline is too young.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> You think he can be as good as the best player in the world lool?
> 
> Both should be deployed as 9, that's where they are best at. In 2022 though it will be interesting with Messi taking less of a role
> 
> Martinez
> Lo Celso-Dybala-Correa/Lanzini/Barco/Messi
> Paredes-Ascacibar
> Tagliafico-Mammana/Martinez-Foyth-Bustos
> Rulli/Werner
> 
> Now that's a respectable well balanced team. Shame some of them can't be incorapated now and that backline is too young.




Joaquin Pereyra from Central will be a big-time player. They call him the next Lo Celso. Watched him in the Sudamericana when Central faced Sao Paulo a month ago and he controlled the pace of the game, very combative and technical little player.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> Joaquin Pereyra from Central will be a big-time player. They call him the next Lo Celso. Watched him in the Sudamericana when Central faced Sao Paulo a month ago and he controlled the pace of the game, very combative and technical little player.




Just googled him he's 5"11 what's little about that lool. He's had 1 senior game central to his game? You're that confident in him?


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Just googled him he's 5"11 what's little about that lool. He's had 1 senior game central to his game? You're that confident in him?




I swear he looked like 1,70cm... nice dribbler and a very elegant player. He's played in like 14 Superliga matches last season + some in the Sudamericana. He looked great on the ball.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Meant to ask you this ages ago, but how would your youth depth chart look for the US, order by realistic potential? Something like:
> 
> *FW:* Weah | Wright | Sargent
> *W:* Pulisic | de la Fuente | Amon | Taitague | Pomykal
> *AM:* Parks | Carleton | Pomykal | Taitague | Booth
> *6:* McKennie| Araujo | Booth | Adams | Durkin
> *FB:* Acosta | Adams | Robinson | Araujo | Cannon
> *CB:* Palmer-Brown | Carter-Vickers | Glad | Araujo
> 
> ?




Thats kind of close to what I'd have with some small variations. 

*GK:* Steffen|Hamid|Bono
*RB:* Yedlin|Cannon|Lindsey
*CB:* Palmer-Brown|Glad|Miazga|Carter-Vickers
*LB:* Acosta|Robinson|Saief
*6:* McKennie|Durkin|Trapp
*8:* Parks|Booth|Delgado
*10:* Carleton|Pomykal
*LW:* de la Fuente|Amon|Taitague
*RW:* Pulisic
*CF:* Weah|Sargent|Wright

I'll cap it at players through 2001 because the others are just too far away, but there are already some big prospects in younger age groups.

Didn't list Adams, Araujo because too much is up in the air about what positions they play, but both belong somewhere here. Adams will be the RB starter, if he becomes a full-time RB. Araujo is probably a 6, but what if he grows? He also hasn't played as a 6 before. I can't juggle all that, so I'll leave him out for now.

Brooks is a starter at CB, if his traveling emergency room clears him to play and he stops wilting against CONCACAF minnows. But a lot of variables there. I like Chandler as the best RB for now, but everyone else hates him because they think he's not committed to the NT. I think he's probably done getting call ups.

I have a hard time ranking the younger CB's because we are already pretty good with young CB's and they are just considerably behind for now, but I wouldn't rule out Akanyirige, Richards and McKenzie from that list. I'll keep keeper to mostly older players because players usually develop later. Its just too hard to know, especially when they are mostly youth players. If there are less than three listed at a position, its because the back ups come from players already listed. Third 10 is probably Pulisic. Second and third RW are probably Pomykal and Taitague.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> I swear he looked like 1,70cm... nice dribbler and a very elegant player. He's played in like 14 Superliga matches last season + some in the Sudamericana. He looked great on the ball.



Ah I was looking at his past states. Just checked transfer market he's played that many games. I'm guessing I'll see more of him next year in the U20s.


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> You think he can be as good as the best player in the world lool?
> 
> Both should be deployed as 9, that's where they are best at. In 2022 though it will be interesting with Messi taking less of a role
> 
> Martinez
> Lo Celso-Dybala-Correa/Lanzini/Barco/Messi
> Paredes-Ascacibar
> Tagliafico-Mammana/Martinez-Foyth-Bustos
> Rulli/Werner
> 
> Now that's a respectable well balanced team. Shame some of them can't be incorapated now and that backline is too young.




If the FBs can provide enough width this would seem lethal:

Lautaro - Dybala
Messi
Lo Celso - Paredes
Ascacibar
Tagliafico - Foyth - Mammana - Bustos
-----------------------------
Lautaro - Dybala
Lo Celso ---- Messi
Ascacibar - Paredes
Tagliafico - Foyth - Mammana - Bustos
-----------------------------
Lautaro
Lo Celso - Dybala - Messi
Ascacibar - Paredes
Tagliafico - Foyth - Mammana - Bustos​


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Ah I was looking at his past states. Just checked transfer market he's played that many games. I'm guessing I'll see more of him next year in the U20s.




What do you think of Milton Valenzuela? He's been one of the best newcomers in MLS so far this season. Barco has been slowed by injuries, but I'm sure he'll be back up to speed eventually.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> If the FBs can provide enough width this would seem lethal:
> 
> Lautaro - Dybala
> Messi
> Lo Celso - Paredes
> Ascacibar
> Tagliafico - Foyth - Mammana - Bustos​




I like this team better than the actual team Sampa has.. minus the backline this would probably be a better team lol. Question do you have any interest in managing the AFA? No experience needed just ask Batista or Maradona. You can't be worse than them... or Bauzo.



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> What do you think of Milton Valenzuela? He's been one of the best newcomers in MLS so far this season. Barco has been slowed by injuries, but I'm sure he'll be back up to speed eventually.




Watched him at both youth tournaments good in the SA world championship but like most of Argentineans a no show in the WC. Still he has potential he just most likely pissed it away moving to America. Although FB is a tragedy for the AFA so he might still make it lol.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I'm watching Moukoko play right now. Haven't seen him play before.

Spoiler: Very good.

Link if you want to watch.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm watching Moukoko play right now. Haven't seen him play before.
> 
> Spoiler: Very good.
> 
> Link if you want to watch.





He's ok


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Unbehaun's distribution is terrific. He's juking onrushing forwards trying to press, pinpoint long passes.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich




----------



## cgf

He’d be a huge prospect if he was doing to his own age group what he’s done this season for the U17s, nevermind how many years he’s playing up.

I hope he has good people around him, cause if he keeps his head straight, develops well & stays healthy; the kid could win multiple BdO’s


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> He’d be a huge prospect if he was doing to his own age group what he’s done this season for the U17s, nevermind how many years he’s playing up.
> 
> I hope he has good people around him, cause if he keeps his head straight, develops well & stays healthy; *the kid could win multiple BdO’*s




LMAO Classic CGF.


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> LMAO Classic CGF.




If he keeps his head straight, develops well, & remains healthy, he could  But please ignore all of those conditions and continue misrepresenting what I said ;-)

And it's actually really atypical for me for me to mention that trophy for any German prospects. Draxler is the only other I've said had the raw talent to ever win even a single BdO, and that was predicated on him becoming an RVP (or later-CR7) like forward...not stagnating for 4-5 seasons, leaving him now little better than he was as an 18-year-old.


----------



## Evilo

Gotze?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> If he keeps his head straight, develops well, & remains healthy, he could  But please ignore all of those conditions and continue misrepresenting what I said ;-)
> 
> And it's actually really atypical for me for me to mention that trophy for any German prospects. *Draxler is the only other I've said had the raw talent to ever win even a single BdO, and that was predicated on him becoming an RVP (or later-CR7) like forward..*.not stagnating for 4-5 seasons, leaving him now little better than he was as an 18-year-old.




Correa will win multiple BdO if he becomes Messi... Barco too.

The idea that a prospect becoming a big time player but failing to do so (for what ever reason)is the issue.

I am certain you've claimed this about one/two other German prospects.

As I said regarding our last conversation you tend to over hype German prospects...I will continue to call you out on outrageous statements. Sue me.

I do it with @Evilo too. So, no worries.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Thats kind of close to what I'd have with some small variations.
> 
> *GK:* Steffen|Hamid|Bono
> *RB:* Yedlin|Cannon|Lindsey
> *CB:* Palmer-Brown|Glad|Miazga|Carter-Vickers
> *LB:* Acosta|Robinson|Saief
> *6:* McKennie|Durkin|Trapp
> *8:* Parks|Booth|Delgado
> *10:* Carleton|Pomykal
> *LW:* de la Fuente|Amon|Taitague
> *RW:* Pulisic
> *CF:* Weah|Sargent|Wright
> 
> I'll cap it at players through 2001 because the others are just too far away, but there are already some big prospects in younger age groups.
> 
> Didn't list Adams, Araujo because too much is up in the air about what positions they play, but both belong somewhere here. Adams will be the RB starter, if he becomes a full-time RB. Araujo is probably a 6, but what if he grows? He also hasn't played as a 6 before. I can't juggle all that, so I'll leave him out for now.
> 
> Brooks is a starter at CB, if his traveling emergency room clears him to play and he stops wilting against CONCACAF minnows. But a lot of variables there. I like Chandler as the best RB for now, but everyone else hates him because they think he's not committed to the NT. I think he's probably done getting call ups.
> 
> I have a hard time ranking the younger CB's because we are already pretty good with young CB's and they are just considerably behind for now, but I wouldn't rule out Akanyirige, Richards and McKenzie from that list. I'll keep keeper to mostly older players because players usually develop later. Its just too hard to know, especially when they are mostly youth players. If there are less than three listed at a position, its because the back ups come from players already listed. Third 10 is probably Pulisic. Second and third RW are probably Pomykal and Taitague.




Not having watched many of these kids who aren't in germany, I'd list Araujo at the 6, CB & even FB if he has the athleticism for it. Even if he doesn't grow taller he can succeed at any of those spots if he's skilled, smart & quick enough. I've seen a few kids like that in german football in the past decade or so that I've been following it; some became FBs like Kolasinac, some became 6s like Gokhan Gul, but some have also succeeded at CB (especially in a back three where they can have two taller partners to cover for them). So if you really think his skillset is great at CB & height is the only thing holding him back, list him there until he a) proves that it will keep him from success at that position and b) doesn't grow any more.

Similarly, I'd list adams as a deeper midfielder, FB & more advanced midfielder/box to boxer if his dynamism and base skillset would work at them. If you must pick just one spot, I'd put him at the spot you believe he fits best until it becomes clearly that he'll never play there in his career...i.e. why I kept Kimmich at the 6 until I accepted that Bayern weren't going to buy a Lahm replacement to let Joshua play the position he's best suited for.

For some reason I thought Brooks was a lot older, but I still think he's upgradeable...even if he is good in the air & physically gifted...and as you mentioned, his injury issues make him unreliable in either case.

And just from your description of Carlton, he sounded like a Xavi or Kroos type, who were pure 10s as youth players, but moved deeper...so that their passing & skill could still be influential without their lack of mobility being an issue that limited their teams' transition game...to reach their greatest heights at the senior level. aka sounds like he could be in line for a Meyer-esque shift to the 6 or 8 to best utilize his talents alongide (a) more robust midfield partner(s).


----------



## Evilo

You can go at it and link me to those outlandish statements I'm supposed to have made.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> You can go at it and link me to those outlandish statements I'm supposed to have made.



Hazard being compared to a Messi...he so far isn't even a top 10 player at any point in his career. Some of that maybe because he plays on the offensive blackhole known as Chelsea but that's a fact... what ever the cause is. 

My personal favourite is your opinion of Sakho. I understand that one tends to view a critique as an attack on the person or the credibility but I assure you it's not. I have made outrageous claims myself. No person is immune to it after we are human and fall in love with certain players talents.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Gotze?




I don't think I ever mentioned BdO's with him. Especially since so much of the time I'd talk about him was to rail against the way people where miscasting him with the "german-Messi" hype when I repeatedly said we should be calling him the "german-Iniesta" instead...especially after the Bayern board sold him to pep as an alternative to Neymar, when he was so clearly a completely different kind of player :-/

But he was a similar raw talent to Draxler, so I may well have & just not remember it. Still, that brings the list of german's I've hyped as potential BdO winners...if they develop well...to two before Moukoko. Which still doesn't make me putting Moukoko in that tier "typical CGF" like D2M accused.


----------



## Evilo

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Hazard being compared to a Messi...he so far isn't even a top 10 player at any point in his career. Some of that maybe because he plays on the offensive blackhole known as Chelsea but that's a fact... what ever the cause is.
> 
> My personal favourite is your opinion of Sakho. I understand that one tends to view a critique as an attack on the person or the credibility but I assure you it's not. I have made outrageous claims myself. No person is immune to it after we are human and fall in love with certain players talents.



Hazard compared to Messi?
WTF are you talking about?
It's OK to talk shit, but please don't make up some stuff.
I SAID MANY TIMES that Hazard had the potential to be #3 in the world. That's behind Messi and even Ronaldo.
OTOH, I did say when he was 16 that he would be a star. Which was spot on.

As for Sakho, please link me to an outlandish post I made about him. Please do. I said he was an excellent CB, nowhere did I say he was a top CB in the world or anything of the sort.
I think the best thing I said about him was that he was a top 10 CB in the EPL. Which is probably far from outlandish.


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Correa will win multiple BdO if he becomes Messi... Barco too.
> 
> The idea that a prospect becoming a big time player but failing to do so (for what ever reason)is the issue.
> 
> I am certain you've claimed this about one/two other German prospects.
> 
> As I said regarding our last conversation you tend to over hype German prospects...I will continue to call you out on outrageous statements. Sue me.
> 
> I do it with @Evilo too. So, no worries.




I meant that in terms of their usage as their team's primary goalscorers, which is why I specified later-CR7, and I think you know that. 

Draxler's wasted half a decade of his prime developmental years, and will never be a BdO candidate...but that doesn't mean that he didn't have the raw talent, off the ball instincts, and physical gifts, to have become one if his development had gone differently. I'm not much of a fatalist and don't think that all great players would've become great players no matter what, and that all players who failed to become great couldn't have become great if their development had gone differently. And Draxler is a prime case of that. 

I never said he *w*ould reach those levels, just that he had that kind of potential. Just like Correa's utter failure doesn't mean that he didn't have exciting potential back when you were "overhyping" him ;-)

And you only say that because I'm the only person you know who talks about german prospects...there's a ton of german kids that get a lot of hype that you never hear me talk about because I don't buy their hype or feel confident in them living up to it even though I agree they have the potential...and because you are usually reacting to my comments about potential & raw upside, not my comments about the levels I am convinced a prospect will reach.


----------



## Evilo

The most outlandish claim I made about a french prospect was saying that 18 year old Ben Arfa would be a star. Outlandish it was not because HBA had special talent. It has become outlandish because he hasn't lived up to his potential.

So where are those links about outlandish claims I made? I mean, real ones, not made up ones.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> I don't think I ever mentioned BdO's with him. Especially since so much of the time I'd talk about him was to rail against the way people where miscasting him with the "german-Messi" hype when I repeatedly said we should be calling him the "german-Iniesta" instead...especially after the Bayern board sold him to pep as an alternative to Neymar, when he was so clearly a completely different kind of player :-/
> 
> But he was a similar raw talent to Draxler, so I may well have & just not remember it. Still, that brings the list of german's I've hyped as potential BdO winners...if they develop well...to two before Moukoko. Which still doesn't make me putting Moukoko in that tier "*typical CGF" like D2M *accused.




We've had this exact discussion before... I just can't find the post anymore from a couple of years ago. Claiming some German prospect was destined for multiple BoD trophies prompting my joke of not many left for Ozil/Rues.

I hate new HF



Evilo said:


> *Hazard compared to Messi?*
> WTF are you talking about?
> It's OK to talk ****, but please don't make up some stuff.
> I SAID MANY TIMES that Hazard had the potential to be #3 in the world. That's behind Messi and even Ronaldo.
> OTOH, I did say when he was 16 that he would be a star. Which was spot on.
> 
> As for Sakho, please link me to an outlandish post I made about him. Please do. I said he was an excellent CB, nowhere did I say he was a top CB in the world or anything of the sort.
> I think the best thing I said about him was that he was a top 10 CB in the EPL. Which is probably far from outlandish.




It was with you rating giving him a 9.5B or whatever and mentioning Messi.

Pretty sure you claimed Sakho would be a top 10 defender in the world. Now that's down right scandalous if you ask me. Not trying to pick a fight just trying to make CGF feel better.



cgf said:


> I meant that in terms of their usage as their team's primary goalscorers, which is why I specified later-CR7, and I think you know that.
> 
> I never said he *w*ould reach those levels, just that he had that kind of potential. Just like Correa's utter failure doesn't mean that he didn't have exciting potential back when you were "overhyping" him ;-)




Oh I did overhype him to an extent. He still has potential to be a good player. Just not the elite player I thought. I have no qualms in admitting it. I already told you what I perceive to be the difference is though.


----------



## Evilo

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> It was with you rating giving him a 9.5B or whatever and mentioning Messi.
> 
> Pretty sure you claimed Sakho would be a top 10 defender in the world. Now that's down right scandalous if you ask me. Not trying to pick a fight just trying to make CGF feel better.



So you don't even read and you make up some stuff. Great. 
Messi's a 10A. 10 as all time great and A as sure fire one.
Hazard being a 9.5 means the tier under, and B decent chance of reaching it.
Nothing outlandish in that. Extremely fair in fact. Spot on.

As for Sakho being top 10 in the EPL certainly doesn't mean top 10 in the world.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> So you don't even read and you make up some stuff. Great.
> Messi's a 10A. 10 as all time great and A as sure fire one.
> Hazard being a 9.5 means the tier under, and B decent chance of reaching it.
> Nothing outlandish in that. Extremely fair in fact. Spot on.
> 
> As for Sakho being top 10 in the EPL certainly doesn't mean top 10 in the world.



You mentioned Messi when talking about Hazard... 

and Sakho was claimed to be a top 10 CB in the world. You know changed it to the EPL. Either way he plays for a regulation side and sucks ass. Always has. You were wrong, no matter the degree. lIke I said not picking a fight just calling it like I see it.


----------



## Evilo

I mentionned Messi. And?

And no, I claimed Sakho was a top 10 CB in the EPL. Don't make some stuff up. And if you think he sucks, you suck at evaluating players. So you're wrong.

0 for 2. That's pretty bad. Accusing someone of outlandish claims and unable to remember it properly, which blows into your face.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> I mentionned Messi. And?
> 
> And no, I claimed Sakho was a top 10 CB in the EPL. Don't make some stuff up. And if you think he sucks, you suck at evaluating players. So you're wrong.
> 
> 0 for 2. That's pretty bad. Accusing someone of outlandish claims and unable to remember it properly, which blows into your face.




Meaning you compared him... I mean I would look these up but new HF everything is weird. 

Nah, pretty sure it was claiming Sakho could be a top 10 defender. Either he is not a top 10 in the EPL. If he doesn't suck where does he play for?

Nothing blew up in my face... just your ego.


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> We've had this exact discussion before... I just can't find the post anymore from a couple of years ago. Claiming some German prospect was destined for multiple BoD trophies prompting my joke of not many left for Ozil/Rues.
> 
> I hate new HF
> 
> Oh I did overhype him to an extent. He still has potential to be a good player. Just not the elite player I thought. I have no qualms in admitting it. I already told you what I perceive to be the difference is though.




I still have no memories of mentioning them seriously with any but Draxler, Gotze & now Moukoko...and I don't even remember mentioning it with Mario, although I'm willing to believe that I did if Evilo is confident he remembers me saying it. Are you sure you aren't thinking of one of my half-joking posts about JoJo or my fully tongue-in-cheek posts about Avdijaj?


But what potential they still have now doesn't retroactively downgrade the potential that they used to have. Just like Draxler no longer having the potential to be elite doesn't mean it wasn't there when he was 18. Or are you saying that you now think that you were mistaken to think Correa had elite potential back then; before he stagnated & started to tend towards some Lavezzi-esque decisions?

Unrealized potential =/= non-existent potential, being the idea I'm getting at and what is at play with Draxler who's issue hasn't been his instincts, it's been his usage and lack of challenge. So even if Correa never actually had the mind for the potential you used to think he had, that's not quite the case with Draxler because re-wiring a player's instincts can be a massive under-taking. Draxler on the otherhand just needed to be played up front next to Huntelaar in his second season with Schalke, before moving to a bigger club where he would continue to be challenged...instead of wasting another few years in Gelsenkirchen and a couple in Wolfsburg. Those are much easier changes to have made to his development.


----------



## Evilo

At least admit you're wrong on everything you've claimed here.
You said I made outlandish claims. I asked which and you came up with :
1/ "you compared Hazard to Messi" and then you talked about the 9.5b, which as I said means I projected Hazard to have the potential to be in the tier under Messi with a decent chance of reaching it. Not only is it not outlandish it's ABSOLUTELY spot on.
FAIL.

2/ You said I made outlandish claims about Sakho, which can only be in the top 10 EPL CB since I never made any other claim. You continue to make up stuff about top 10 in the world, which I never did. Even then just because you can't see properly evaluate his talent dosn't mean I'm wrong and in no way is it an outlandish claim.
FAIL AGAIN.

So in fact, the only outlandish claims in all of this is you trying desperately to say I made some by using either ridiculous arguments (Hazard/Messi) that prove me right or simply lies.

It's OK, you're not trying to start up a fight did you say. But you said I made outlandish claims about something I was right on and you made up the second part. That's a pretty bad way not to start up a fight.


----------



## Evilo

How many CBs were nominated for player of the month in the EPL? Not many. 

He's a top 10 CB in the EPL. The outlandish claim is to say he sucks.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> At least admit you're wrong on everything you've claimed here.
> You said I made outlandish claims. I asked which and you came up with :
> 1/ "you compared Hazard to Messi" and then you talked about the 9.5b, which as I said means I projected Hazard to have the potential to be in the tier under Messi with a decent chance of reaching it. Not only is it not outlandish it's ABSOLUTELY spot on.
> FAIL.
> 
> 2/ You said I made outlandish claims about Sakho, which can only be in the top 10 EPL CB since I never made any other claim. You continue to make up stuff about top 10 in the world, which I never did. Even then just because you can't see properly evaluate his talent dosn't mean I'm wrong and in no way is it an outlandish claim.
> FAIL AGAIN.
> 
> So in fact, the only outlandish claims in all of this is you trying desperately to say I made some by using either ridiculous arguments (Hazard/Messi) that prove me right or simply lies.
> 
> It's OK, you're not trying to start up a fight did you say. But you said I made outlandish claims about something I was right on and you made up the second part. That's a pretty bad way not to start up a fight.




LOL you're hilarious.


----------



## Evilo

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> LOL you're hilarious.



That's called the cold hard reality.
Two examples to backup your claim, two utter fails.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> He's a top 10 CB in the EPL.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Not having watched many of these kids who aren't in germany, I'd list Araujo at the 6, CB & even FB if he has the athleticism for it. Even if he doesn't grow taller he can succeed at any of those spots if he's skilled, smart & quick enough. I've seen a few kids like that in german football in the past decade or so that I've been following it; some became FBs like Kolasinac, some became 6s like Gokhan Gul, but some have also succeeded at CB (especially in a back three where they can have two taller partners to cover for them). So if you really think his skillset is great at CB & height is the only thing holding him back, list him there until he a) proves that it will keep him from success at that position and b) doesn't grow any more.




He's a great CB. Best ball playing CB we have, he can dribble the ball all the way up the field into the final 1/3, very mobile, really good tackler, strong, good in the air for a shorter CB. I'm all for keeping him at CB right now, but projecting forward I don't think he'll be a CB.

Today, Mundo Deportivo did a feature on him. He trained at La Masia in March, and impressed the club. I wouldn't be shocked if he goes back there when he turns 18 during the Summer 2019 window. He plays for the Barca academy in the USA, and it seems like the purpose of that academy was to scoop up the best young American talent, and have an advantage in signing them to La Masia. One of his Youth National Team teammates, Konrad de la Fuente, already plays in the Barca academy.



cgf said:


> Similarly, I'd list adams as a deeper midfielder, FB & more advanced midfielder/box to boxer if his dynamism and base skillset would work at them. If you must pick just one spot, I'd put him at the spot you believe he fits best until it becomes clearly that he'll never play there in his career...i.e. why I kept Kimmich at the 6 until I accepted that Bayern weren't going to buy a Lahm replacement to let Joshua play the position he's best suited for.




I worry about how Adams will do at Leipzig, if they use him as a midfielder. He's not a direct replacement for Naby Keita. I hope they didn't buy him as that. Some have compared him to Keita, but its a bad comparison outside of work-rate.

Adams is a very good full-back. I actually think he can play either side, and having CM versatility also isn't bad, but he is prone to getting bossed as a CM against good competition. Against lesser competition, he presses them really well, but good competition that can bypass a press, he just doesn't have the solutions to compete with them. I suspect we'll see this again on Saturday against France.



cgf said:


> For some reason I thought Brooks was a lot older, but I still think he's upgradeable...even if he is good in the air & physically gifted...and as you mentioned, his injury issues make him unreliable in either case.




Brooks is also a very good passer. When he's on his game, he's Hummels-lite. Quicker attackers give him trouble and he's prone to concentration lapses, but he's can dominate matches. He's made a career off of doing that against Dortmund. If he didn't play for the USA, and stuck with Germany, he would be a better solution than someone like Rudiger or Ginter. He's a better player than them, although he's unreliable because he's always injured.



cgf said:


> And just from your description of Carlton, he sounded like a Xavi or Kroos type, who were pure 10s as youth players, but moved deeper...so that their passing & skill could still be influential without their lack of mobility being an issue that limited their teams' transition game...to reach their greatest heights at the senior level. aka sounds like he could be in line for a Meyer-esque shift to the 6 or 8 to best utilize his talents alongide (a) more robust midfield partner(s).




He's somewhat similar to those players. Reminds me some of Goetze in passing ability, ball control, possession, body type, but I don't think he's going to move out of attacking midfield, at least not yet. The reason for this is despite all the athletic limitations, he has a habit of scoring and assisting goals. He has the best end product of any of the young American attackers, so we really can't move him into a deep-lying role. He's too valuable for his goal-scoring and assisting of goals. While he could assist some goals from a deeper role, his goal-scoring will be taken away. He's a threat to score anywhere within 30 yards of the goal, scored a terrific goal today in that style for his first goal with the Atlanta first team.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I worry about how Adams will do at Leipzig, if they use him as a midfielder. He's not a direct replacement for Naby Keita. I hope they didn't buy him as that. Some have compared him to Keita, but its a bad comparison outside of work-rate.
> 
> Adams is a very good full-back. I actually think he can play either side, and having CM versatility also isn't bad, but he is prone to getting bossed as a CM against good competition. Against lesser competition, he presses them really well, but good competition that can bypass a press, he just doesn't have the solutions to compete with them. I suspect we'll see this again on Saturday against France.
> 
> 
> 
> Brooks is also a very good passer. When he's on his game, he's Hummels-lite. Quicker attackers give him trouble and he's prone to concentration lapses, but he's can dominate matches. He's made a career off of doing that against Dortmund. If he didn't play for the USA, and stuck with Germany, he would be a better solution than someone like Rudiger or Ginter. He's a better player than them, although he's unreliable because he's always injured.
> 
> 
> 
> He's somewhat similar to those players. Reminds me some of Goetze in passing ability, ball control, possession, body type, but I don't think he's going to move out of attacking midfield, at least not yet. The reason for this is despite all the athletic limitations, he has a habit of scoring and assisting goals. He has the best end product of any of the young American attackers, so we really can't move him into a deep-lying role. He's too valuable for his goal-scoring and assisting of goals. While he could assist some goals from a deeper role, his goal-scoring will be taken away. He's a threat to score anywhere within 30 yards of the goal, scored a terrific goal today in that style for his first goal with the Atlanta first team.




Leipzig still have Kampl; the additions of Mukiele & Saracchi at FB, mean that Laimer will get to play in the midfield next season; Amadou Haidara is coming over from Salzburg; plus Abouchabaka might be signing his professional contract with, and he's an 8 as much as a 10. So Adams won't be thrown into a big role unless he really impresses. Doubt he gets to play FB, on top of Mukiele & Saracchi, Klostermann is going nowhere and Halstenburg is looking like he'll stay...even if Bernardo gets sold.

Agree to disagree on Brooks' passing, it's nothing special IMO

Gotcha, then the tip of a triangle is probably best for Carlton.


----------



## cgf

OBM isn't bad either...that assist was just an absolute beaut


----------



## Savant

@Evilo LFC tried to sign a couple of young French guys. Know anything about either Rafik Guitane or Aurelien Nguiamba


----------



## Evilo

I'm extremely high on Rafik Guitane. I talked about him a few times here and in our liga (where I drafted him). However, I'd be surprised if LFC had any involvement since he was signed (a big price) by Rennes last winter and loaned to Le Havre again for the stretch. He'll move to Rennes this summer. Doubt they sell him.
Nguimba is a well known youth selection midfielder. Haven't seen much of him though since he was not playing the games I saw.


----------



## Burner Account

La Liga promises U12 tournament is in my city this weekend. How good are 12-year olds at academies of Barca and Madrid?

Should I go? Will I see players that will be legends one day? Is it weird? Help.


----------



## Venkman

Man Utd are scouting 17 year old Molde forward Erling Braut Håland, son of Alf-Inge. Coached by Solskjær.

Scored 4 in the 1st half against top of the table Brann. Has 6 goals in 13 appearances (7 starts) this season. Will be going to the u19 Euros later this month.


----------



## Savant

Liverpool look to wrap up deal for Ajax wonderkid

@YNWA14 heard of him?


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Liverpool look to wrap up deal for Ajax wonderkid
> 
> @YNWA14 heard of him?



Nope...I'm digging though. He's pretty young.


----------



## SenorDingDong

Ronaldo to Juve seems like a done deal right now.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

A couple updates on young US players who are moving in this transfer window:

Josh Sargent joins Werder Bremen and has been given a first team squad number. It seems like they signed him directly to the first team instead of the academy.

Zyen Jones moves to Schalke's youth teams in this window. He's a really fast winger, but thats his whole game. Not a good footballer. Doubt he'll do well there.

Chris Gloster moves to Hannover youth teams in this window. He was on trial at Schalke at the same time as Jones, and they kept Jones, not Gloster. Dumb decision. I think he should do pretty well at Hannover. I'm not sure where he'll start.

Richie Ledezma is on trial at PSV. He should catch on there. He's a good player. His club team is getting absolutely plundered for their best youth prospects. They recently lost a kid who'll join Bayern soon, but is in a holding pattern until he receives his EU passport. And there's another player might be following him out the door by the end of the year.

Chris Richards has been loaned to the Bayern Munich academy from FC Dallas. It seems to only be a half-year loan. But he's another good player, and I wouldn't be surprised if Bayern eventually tries to sign him from Dallas to their academy. Their clubs have one of those player partnership deals.

There's a rumor going around that Gio Reyna is joining Dortmund. I don't know the reliability of the rumor and his father is the technical director of his current club, so it won't look great if Dortmund takes him on a free. Hard to know how he'll do, if it ends up happening. He's only 15, but he's a talented player.


----------



## Venkman

Venkman said:


> Man Utd are scouting 17 year old Molde forward Erling Braut Håland, son of Alf-Inge. Coached by Solskjær.
> 
> Scored 4 in the 1st half against top of the table Brann. Has 6 goals in 13 appearances (7 starts) this season. Will be going to the u19 Euros later this month.




2 goals and an assist for Håland today against Valerenga. Looks a composed finisher from the little I've seen. Arsenal and Juve also interested.


----------



## WeThreeKings

Not sure if this is the right place but.. with Netherlands missing Euro and now the World Cup. Do they have a promising upcoming generation of stars? Or is it looking lean for them for the next few major tournaments?


----------



## YNWA14

WeThreeKings said:


> Not sure if this is the right place but.. with Netherlands missing Euro and now the World Cup. Do they have a promising upcoming generation of stars? Or is it looking lean for them for the next few major tournaments?



Are you looking for specifics? They just won the u17 Euro and have a really strong crop of players coming up from various age groups. I'd say they should make EC '20, but I think it'll be a bit early for their next generation to be overly effective. It'll be WC '22 where we'll start to see more of a resurgence I think (obviously, that's if players remain on their current trajectory and coaching is good). I've listed a bunch of the most promising players on previous pages, but if you want to discuss it more in depth you're welcome to PM me.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

This guy will join our youth teams when he turns 18 in September.


----------



## Evilo

Amine Gouiri's stats :
U17 Euro : 5 games, 9 goals.
U17 WC : 4 games, 5 goals.
U19 Euro : 3 games, 4 goals (in 93 minutes), as an underager.


----------



## Suiteness

My son was watching this earlier today:



This kid hits the ball better than 99% of the grown ass man in my rec league.


----------



## alko

Suiteness said:


> My son was watching this earlier today:
> 
> 
> 
> This kid hits the ball better than 99% of the grown ass man in my rec league.





His skating need work. Above average Puck Control. High hockey IQ. Very hard slap shot, need to work on wrist shot. Overall he is a nice prospect, that could be drafted in 1th round.

Btw. how old is he?


----------



## John Pedro

Ridiculous play by Rodrygo to set up Gabigol... Gonna look good with Vinicius Jr at Madrid soon


----------



## Evilo

Probably my biggest prospect disappointment ever :


----------



## Incubajerks

I saw Lafont for the first time and made me fall in love. Keep an eye on Cristobal Montiel ...


----------



## Evilo

Incubation said:


> I saw Lafont for the first time and made me fall in love. Keep an eye on Cristobal Montiel ...



Very likeable character as well.


----------



## John Pedro

Shame Ronaldo won't get to play with Portugal next wave... some great talents comming.


----------



## Arcade Fire

Suiteness said:


> My son was watching this earlier today:
> 
> 
> 
> This kid hits the ball better than 99% of the grown ass man in my rec league.




Kid has iconic hair at that age, too, it's not even fair.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

@John Pedro, how would you compare Rodrygo to Neymar when Neymar was Rodrygo's age? Who was better? Is Rodrygo definitely better than Vinicius?

I read that both are on the preliminary list for the upcoming friendlies. If Rodrygo plays in either match, I read that he'd be the third youngest player to be capped for Brazil after Ronaldo and Pele.


----------



## Evilo

Espoirs du foot, which is a very nice ressource for french prospects has made a "prospects trophy" tournament.
They have elected the finalists for each generation from 1998 to 2001.

Here are they (the winners will be announced throughout the week) :

1998 :
Kévin Amian (Toulouse)
Houssem Aouar (Lyon)
Sofian Alakouch (Nîmes)
Odsonne Edouard (Celtic)
Jonathan Ikone (Lille)
Yann Karamoh (Inter)
Jules Koundé (Bordeaux)
Kylian Mbappe (PSG)
Dayot Upamecano (Leipzig)

1999 :
Mickael Cuisance (BMG)
Moussa Diaby (PSG)
Rakif Guitane (Rennes)
Boubacar Kamara (OM)
Alban Lafont (Fiorentina)
Myziane Maolida (Lyon)
Malang Sarr (Nice)
Moussa Sylla (Monaco)
Dan-Axel Zagadou (Dortmund)

2000 :
Yacine Aldi (PSG)
William Banda (Roma)
Maxence Caqueret (Lyon)
Claudio Gomes (City)
Amine Gouiri (Lyon)
Enzo Loiodice (Dijon)
Lenny Pintor (Brest)
Aurélien Tchouameni (Bordeaux)
Matteo Tramoni (Ajaccio)

2001 :
Benoit Badiashile (Monaco)
Theo Barbet (Dijon)
Yannis Begraoui (Auxerre)
Abdoulaye Dabo (Nantes)
Yann Gbhoho (Rennes)
Mohammed Lamine Diaby (Nice)
Willem Geubbels (Monaco)
Levy Kahamba Ntumba (Dijon)
Loic Mbe Soh (PSG)

Few names that could have been on the list : Guendouzi (Arsenal, 99), Konate (99, Leipzig), Youssouf (98, Bordeaux), etc...

My votes : 
98 : 1- Mbappe, 2- Aouar, 3- Upamecano
99 : 1- Kamara, 2- Lafont, 3- Cuisance (hard because the depth is insane, a guy like Guitane is fantastic).
00 : 1- Gouiri, 2- Adli, 3- Gomes
01 : 1- Geubbels, 2- Badiashile, 3- Mbe Soh


----------



## Bulbhead

I was impressed with what I have seen of Ibrahima Konate (1999, Leipzig) so far, the rate of progress is amazing and it will be interesting to watch him alongside Upamecano and Mukiele.

Btw, any comments about Mukiele and Niakhate (joined Mainz this summer) would be much appreciated.

Mainz was a total disaster last season but Diallo and Gbamin plus a rush of energy very late in the season saved them, this year I am looking forward to Niakhate, but for Mateta I believe it will be difficult because they have no creative midfielders or wingers to support him.


----------



## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> @John Pedro, how would you compare Rodrygo to Neymar when Neymar was Rodrygo's age? Who was better? Is Rodrygo definitely better than Vinicius?
> 
> I read that both are on the preliminary list for the upcoming friendlies. If Rodrygo plays in either match, I read that he'd be the third youngest player to be capped for Brazil after Ronaldo and Pele.




Rodrygo is a more 'unspectacular' player, he doesn't do as many tricks as Neymar does/used to nor does he score goals beating three, four defenders as Neymar did many times, he's smarter on the pitch, but isn't as talented as Neymar. For example, I've not seen Rodrygo do something close to this yet:


As for Vini x Rodrygo, I personally like Rodrygo more. They're very different kind of wingers, though. Vinicius is a behemoth, incredibly fast and strong, he reads the game well but still makes bad decisions on the ball, his dribbling wasn't translated as well as one would hope. He can beat defenders, but not even close to what he used to do at youth football level, maybe it will come with time, though.

Rodrygo on the other hand, is fantastic smart, he reads the game well, he beat offside traps with through balls all the time, he knows where to be to score tap in and rebound goals, he barely makes bad decisions like overdribbling instead of passing, he's cool as a cucumber in front of the goal. He's more skilled than Vinicius, for sure. He still has ways to go physically which for me is just one more reason to believe he's a better talent than Vinicius.


----------



## ecemleafs

i think u have to put edouard 1 for the 98s.


----------



## ecemleafs

shocking to see neymar rolling around and screaming like hes been shot in that video


----------



## Evilo

ecemleafs said:


> i think u have to put edouard 1 for the 98s.




I hope he develops, but so far he hasn't made the impact he was prdicted to make.
But with Mbappe, Aouar and Upa in his birth year, good luck being in the top 3 though. Kounde probably gets voted in front of him as well.


----------



## ecemleafs

Evilo said:


> I hope he develops, but so far he hasn't made the impact he was prdicted to make.
> But with Mbappe, Aouar and Upa in his birth year, good luck being in the top 3 though. Kounde probably gets voted in front of him as well.



he started playing really well towards the end of last year. has been in great form to start this year.


----------



## ecemleafs

Evilo said:


> Espoirs du foot, which is a very nice ressource for french prospects has made a "prospects trophy" tournament.
> They have elected the finalists for each generation from 1998 to 2001.
> 
> Here are they (the winners will be announced throughout the week) :
> 
> 1998 :
> Kévin Amian (Toulouse)
> Houssem Aouar (Lyon)
> Sofian Alakouch (Nîmes)
> Odsonne Edouard (Celtic)
> Jonathan Ikone (Lille)
> Yann Karamoh (Inter)
> Jules Koundé (Bordeaux)
> Kylian Mbappe (PSG)
> Dayot Upamecano (Leipzig)
> 
> 1999 :
> Mickael Cuisance (BMG)
> Moussa Diaby (PSG)
> Rakif Guitane (Rennes)
> Boubacar Kamara (OM)
> Alban Lafont (Fiorentina)
> Myziane Maolida (Lyon)
> Malang Sarr (Nice)
> Moussa Sylla (Monaco)
> Dan-Axel Zagadou (Dortmund)
> 
> 2000 :
> Yacine Aldi (PSG)
> William Banda (Roma)
> Maxence Caqueret (Lyon)
> Claudio Gomes (City)
> Amine Gouiri (Lyon)
> Enzo Loiodice (Dijon)
> Lenny Pintor (Brest)
> Aurélien Tchouameni (Bordeaux)
> Matteo Tramoni (Ajaccio)
> 
> 2001 :
> Benoit Badiashile (Monaco)
> Theo Barbet (Dijon)
> Yannis Begraoui (Auxerre)
> Abdoulaye Dabo (Nantes)
> Yann Gbhoho (Rennes)
> Mohammed Lamine Diaby (Nice)
> Willem Geubbels (Monaco)
> Levy Kahamba Ntumba (Dijon)
> Loic Mbe Soh (PSG)
> 
> Few names that could have been on the list : Guendouzi (Arsenal, 99), Konate (99, Leipzig), Youssouf (98, Bordeaux), etc...
> 
> My votes :
> 98 : 1- Mbappe, 2- Aouar, 3- Upamecano
> 99 : 1- Kamara, 2- Lafont, 3- Cuisance (hard because the depth is insane, a guy like Guitane is fantastic).
> 00 : 1- Gouiri, 2- Adli, 3- Gomes
> 01 : 1- Geubbels, 2- Badiashile, 3- Mbe Soh




out of the players on this list, who should be the next frenchmen celtic should sign? preferably someone who was raised within 30 miles of the eiffel tower.


----------



## Evilo

Not sure how much interest Celtic would rise among those guys.


----------



## John Pedro

Rodrygo's elastico. Yes, I know nothing happened out of this, but I like tricks.


----------



## Evilo

Rayan Cherki played his first game with Lyon's second team in National 2 (4th french level). He also scored in his first game.
Nothing earth-shattering so far would you say.

Well, he's *fourteen*.


----------



## John Pedro

yet another Fluminense's academy product, Pedro (21y old) is a very nice striker. Leads Brasileirao in goals (10 in 15 games). Kid reminds me of Giroud with better finishing. Just scored a screamer


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

John Pedro said:


> yet another Fluminense's academy product, Pedro (21y old) is a very nice striker. Leads Brasileirao in goals (10 in 15 games). Kid reminds me of Giroud with better finishing. Just scored a screamer





Dortmund just put in a bid for him. We need a striker.


----------



## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Dortmund just put in a bid for him. We need a striker.





If true, he's yours as Fluminense asked Valencia 12m euros for him some weeks ago.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

John Pedro said:


> If true, he's yours as Fluminense asked Valencia 12m euros for him some weeks ago.



I don't understand how this guy could be available for so low..
He is amazing from what I've seen. Young, good size, clinical finisher.

I don't get why there is not much hype around here.


----------



## John Pedro

JeffreyLFC said:


> I don't understand how this guy could be available for so low..
> He is amazing from what I've seen. Young, good size, clinical finisher.
> 
> I don't get why there is not much hype around here.




It's not that low when you consider it's what they got for Richarlison (12,5M + 10% over Watford's profit in a new sell). Pedro being a late bloomer with no youth NT caps doesn't help, either. If he gets called up by Tite next Friday his value should skyrocket.

I like him a lot, he's a very underrated passer too. That pass was fantastic:


----------



## Il Mediano

@Evilo 

Do you mind giving your opinion of William Bianda? I've honestly got no idea what to think. He seems kinda raw in the friendlies/practices I've watch, which is to be expected for an 18 year old. 

Monchi spent 6 million with another potential 5 in bonuses , and I think he only played 5 games with the 1st team at Lens.

Do you see something in this kid?


----------



## Evilo

I'm in Barcelona right now I'll get back to you tomorrow.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> I'm in Barcelona right now I'll get back to you tomorrow.



If you are scouting Lens, I would want to hear about Modibo Sagnan as well please


----------



## Evilo

Il Mediano said:


> @Evilo
> 
> Do you mind giving your opinion of William Bianda? I've honestly got no idea what to think. He seems kinda raw in the friendlies/practices I've watch, which is to be expected for an 18 year old.
> 
> Monchi spent 6 million with another potential 5 in bonuses , and I think he only played 5 games with the 1st team at Lens.
> 
> Do you see something in this kid?



So, I have a little more time to answer.
Bianda I have never sen him play for Lens. I don't watch L2 as often as I used to do and Bianda almost never played for Lens either. Looking it up, he has 5 career L2 games.
I have seen him in youth selections though. I liked him in the few minutes I saw him. He didn't have a great asset that made him incredible, but he was smart, strong, fast enough, good passing skills to stretch defenses.


----------



## Evilo

Savant said:


> If you are scouting Lens, I would want to hear about Modibo Sagnan as well please



Sorry, never seen him play


----------



## Il Mediano

Evilo said:


> So, I have a little more time to answer.
> Bianda I have never sen him play for Lens. I don't watch L2 as often as I used to do and Bianda almost never played for Lens either. Looking it up, he has 5 career L2 games.
> I have seen him in youth selections though. I liked him in the few minutes I saw him. He didn't have a great asset that made him incredible, but he was smart, strong, fast enough, good passing skills to stretch defenses.




That's more than I've gotten from any Roma outlets. France is so loaded these days, I wasn't even sure if he was on the radar.

Apparently we're not sending him on loan , and we're keeping around the 1st team until the winter mercato and reassessing from there. I'd be pretty shocked if he found any minutes as a teenager , but Roma's collection of CB's isn't exactly great. 

We haven't had a really young CB play serious minutes since Marquinhos - who was a bit of a freak , and we had a far weaker roster at the time.

I appreciate you taking the time, thanks.


----------



## Evilo

No problem, don't hesitate to ask for any other french prospect.

I don't think Bianda is, as of now, ready AT ALL for Roma A team. He's still raw and needs coaching.


----------



## Ajacied

I am working on this piece for a football website. Might as well post it here as it becomes an annual thing around here anyway. Still a concept version though.

Dutch/Eredivisie youth ranked by age. I clustered 2002 and 2003 as both categories are major long shots right now. Also included Nouri out of respect. If you have any questions or feedback, please do.
*
1997*
1) Abdelhak Nouri AM - 90C – Ajax/HOL*
2) Frenkie de Jong CM - 88B – Ajax/HOL
3) Kasper Dolberg ST - 85B – Ajax/DEN
4) Steven Bergwijn W - 84B – PSV/HOL
5) David Neres W - 82B – Ajax/BRA
6) Donnie van de Beek CM - 80A – Ajax/HOL
7) Arnaut Groeneveld LW – 76B – Brugge/HOL
8) Guus Til CM - 70B – AZ/HOL
9) Vaclav Cerny W - 80D – Ajax/CZE
10) Noussair Mazraoui RB/RM - 70B – Ajax/HOL

_HM: Sam Lammers (PSV), Hidde ter Avest (Udinese), Philippe Sandler (Manchester City), Juninho Bacuna (Huddersfield Town), Matteo Casseira (Ajax)._

*1998*
1) Carel Eiting CM - 84B – Ajax/HOL
2) Calvin Stengs W – 83C – AZ/HOL
3) Timothy-Fosu Mensah D – 83C – Manchester United/HOL
4) Rick van Drongelen CB – 78B – HSV/HOL
5) Justin Bijlow GK – 80C – Feyenoord/HOL
6) Kaj Sierhuis ST – 80C – Ajax/HOL
7) Dante Rigo CM - 80C - PSV/BEL
8) Justin Hoogma CB/LB – 70B – Hoffenheim/HOL
9) Teun Koopmeiners DM – 72C – AZ/HOL
10) Javairo Dilrosun LW – 75D - Hertha BSC/HOL

_HM: Rodney Kongolo (Manchester City/Heerenveen), Hassane Bandé (Ajax), Giovanni Troupee (Utrecht), Maxmillan Wöber (Ajax), Dennis Johnson (Ajax), Julian Chabot (Groningen), Sherel Floranus (Heerenveen)._

*1999*
1) Matthijs de Ligt CB – 93B – Ajax/HOL
2) Tahith Chong RW – 87B – Manchester United/HOL
3) Justin Kluivert LW – 85C – AS Roma/HOL
4) Armando Obispo CB 85B – PSV/HOL
5) Maximilliano Romero ST – 85C – PSV/ARG
6) Perr Schuurs CB 82B – Ajax/HOL
7) Joel Piroe ST – 83C – PSV/HOL
8) Donyell Malen W/AM - 75C – PSV/HOL
9) Bobby Adekanye RW – 80D – Liverpool/HOL
10) Leandro Fernandes DM – 76C – Juventus/HOL

_HM: Emanuel Boateng (Lazio), Noa Lang (Ajax), Ferdi Kadioglu (Fenerbache), Che Nunnely (Ajax), Mitchell van Bergen (Vitesse), Owen Wijndal (AZ), Dylan Vente (Feyenoord), Deroy Duarte (Sparta), Nathangelo Markelo (Everton), Godfried Frimpong (Benfica), Anderson Lopéz (AS Monaco)._

*2000*
1) Juan Familia Castillo LM/LB - 81C – Chelsea/HOL
2) Kik Pierie LB/CB - 80B – Heerenveen/HOL
3) Achraf El Bouchataoui AM - 83D – Feyenoord/HOL
4) Jasper Schendelaar GK – 75B – AZ/HOL
5) Jurgen Ekkelenkamp CM – 75B - Ajax/HOL
6) Nicolas Kuhn ST - 77C – Ajax/GER
7) Kjell Scherper GK – 75B – Emmen/HOL
8) Mitchell Bakker LB/CB 76B – Ajax/HOL
9) Victor Jensen AM – 80C - Ajax/DEN
10) Millen Baars AM – 75D – Manchester United/HOL

_HM: Ludovit Reis (Groningen), Orkün Kokcü (Feyenoord), Dominik Kotarski (Ajax), Delano Ladan (ADO Den Haag), Lutsharel Geertruida (Feyenoord), Zakaria Aboukhlal (PSV), Kees de Boer (Swansea). _

*2001*
1) Daishwan Redan ST – 87C – Chelsea/HOL
2) Myron Boadu ST – 84B – AZ/HOL
3) Joshua Zirkzee ST – 85C – Bayern München/HOL
4) Manuel Pherai AM – 83C – Dortmund/HOL
5) Cheick Touré LW – 82C – Feyenoord/HOL
6) Wouter Burger CM – 82C – Feyenoord/HOL
7) Joey Koorevaar GK - 82C - Feyenoord/HOL
8) Liam van Gelderen CB – 80C – Ajax/HOL
9) Splinter de Mooij AM – 80C – Feyenoord/HOL
10) Vicente Besuijen AM – 75C – Roma/HOL

_HM: Kenzo Goudmijn (AZ), Sepp van den Berg (Zwolle), Denilho Cleonise (Genoa), Thomas Buitink (Vitesse), Jurrien Timber (Ajax), Tyro Nimmermeer (Lazio), Quinten Timber (Ajax), Anouar El Mhassani (West Ham United), Enric Llansana (Ajax)._

*2002/2003*
1) Naci Unuvar AM – 91C – Ajax/HOL
2) Xavi Simons CM – 91C – Barcelona/HOL
3) Ryan Gravenberch CM – 90C Ajax/HOL
4) Jaymillo Pinas ST – 86C - Ajax/HOL
5) Brian Brobbey ST – 87D – Ajax/HOL
6) Mohammed Ihattaren W/AM – 84D – PSV/HOL
7) Jayden Braaf ST – 85C – Manchester City/HOL
8) Dillon Hoogewerf ST - 83C – Ajax/HOL
9) Ian Maatsen CB – 80C – Chelsea/HOL
10) Kian Fitz-Jim AM – 75C – AZ/HOL

_HM: Melayro Bogarde (Hoffenheim), Ki-Jana Hoever (Liverpool), Mohamed Taabouni (AZ)._


----------



## YNWA14

Ajacied said:


> I am working on this piece for a football website. Might as well post it here as it becomes an annual thing around here anyway. Still a concept version though.
> 
> Dutch/Eredivisie youth ranked by age. I clustered 2002 and 2003 as both categories are major long shots right now. Also included Nouri out of respect. If you have any questions or feedback, please do.
> *
> 1997*
> 1) Abdelhak Nouri AM - 90C – Ajax/HOL*
> 2) Frenkie de Jong CM - 88B – Ajax/HOL
> 3) Kasper Dolberg ST - 85B – Ajax/DEN
> 4) Steven Bergwijn W - 84B – PSV/HOL
> 5) David Neres W - 82B – Ajax/BRA
> 6) Donnie van de Beek CM - 80A – Ajax/HOL
> 7) Arnaut Groeneveld LW – 72B – Brugge/HOL
> 8) Guus Til CM - 70B – AZ/HOL
> 9) Vaclav Cerny W - 80D – Ajax/CZE
> 10) Noussair Mazraoui RB/RM - 70B – Ajax/HOL
> 
> _HM: Sam Lammers (PSV), Hidde ter Avest (Udinese), Juninho Bacuna (Huddersfield Town), Matteo Casseira (Ajax)._
> 
> *1998*
> 1) Carel Eiting CM - 85B – Ajax/HOL
> 2) Calvin Stengs W – 83C – AZ/HOL
> 3) Timothy-Fosu Mensah D – 83C – Manchester United/HOL
> 4) Rick van Drongelen CB – 78B – HSV/HOL
> 5) Justin Bijlow GK – 80C – Feyenoord/HOL
> 6) Kaj Sierhuis ST – 80C – Ajax/HOL
> 7) Dante Rigo CM - 77C - PSV/BEL
> 8) Justin Hoogma CB/LB – 70B – Hoffenheim/HOL
> 9) Teun Koopmeiners DM – 72C – AZ/HOL
> 10) Javairo Dilrosun LW – 75D - Hertha BSC/HOL
> 
> _HM: Hassane Bandé (Ajax), Giovanni Troupee (Utrecht), Maxmillan Wöber (Ajax), Dennis Johnson (Ajax), Julian Chabot (Groningen), Sherel Floranus (Heerenveen)._
> 
> *1999*
> 1) Matthijs de Ligt CB – 93B – Ajax/HOL
> 2) Tahith Chong RW – 87B – Manchester United/HOL
> 3) Justin Kluivert LW – 85C – AS Roma/HOL
> 4) Armando Obispo CB 85B – PSV/HOL
> 5) Maximilliano Romero ST – 85C – PSV/ARG
> 6) Perr Schuurs CB 82B – Ajax/HOL
> 7) Joel Piroe ST – 83C – PSV/HOL
> 8) Donyell Malen W/AM - 75C – PSV/HOL
> 9) Bobby Adekanye RW – 80D – Liverpool/HOL
> 10) Leandro Fernandes DM – 75C – Juventus/HOL
> 
> _HM: Emanuel Boateng (Lazio), Noa Lang (Ajax), Ferdi Kadioglu (Fenerbache), Che Nunnely (Ajax), Mitchell van Bergen (Vitesse), Owen Wijndal (AZ), Dylan Vente (Feyenoord), Deroy Duarte (Sparta), Nathangelo Markelo (Everton), Godfried Frimpong (Benfica), Anderson Lopéz (AS Monaco)._
> 
> *2000*
> 1) Juan Familia Castillo LM/LB - 85C – Chelsea/HOL
> 2) Kik Pierie LB/CB - 80B – Heerenveen/HOL
> 3) Achraf El Bouchataoui AM - 83D – Feyenoord/HOL
> 4) Jasper Schendelaar GK – 75B – AZ/HOL
> 5) Jurgen Ekkelenkamp CM – 75B - Ajax/HOL
> 6) Nicolas Kuhn ST - 77C – Ajax/GER
> 7) Kjell Scherper GK – 75B – Emmen/HOL
> 8) Mitchell Bakker LB/CB 74B – Ajax/HOL
> 9) Victor Jensen AM – 80C - Ajax/DEN
> 10) Millen Baars AM – 75D – Manchester United/HOL
> 
> _HM: Ludovic Reis (Groningen), Orkun Kokcu (Feyenoord), Delano Ladan (ADO Den Haag), Lutsharel Geertruida (Feyenoord), Zakaria Aboukhlal (PSV), Kees de Boer (Swansea). _
> 
> *2001*
> 1) Daishwan Redan ST – 87C – Chelsea/HOL
> 2) Myron Boadu ST – 84B – AZ/HOL
> 3) Joshua Zirkzee ST – 85C – Bayern München/HOL
> 4) Manuel Pherai AM – 83C – Dortmund/HOL
> 5) Cheick Touré LW – 82C – Feyenoord/HOL
> 6) Wouter Burger CM – 82C – Feyenoord/HOL
> 7) Liam van Gelderen CB – 80C – Ajax/HOL
> 8) Splinter de Mooij AM – 80C – Feyenoord/HOL
> 9) Vicente Besuijen AM – 75C – Roma/HOL
> 10) Kenzo Goudmijn AM/W – 73C - AZ/HOL
> 
> _HM: Thomas Buitink (Vitesse), Jurrien Timber (Ajax), Quinten Timber (Ajax), Anouar El Mhassani (West Ham United), Enric Llansana (Ajax)._
> 
> *2002/2003*
> 1) Naci Unuvar AM – 91C – Ajax/HOL
> 2) Xavi Simons CM – 91C – Barcelona/HOL
> 3) Ryan Gravenbergh CM – 90C Ajax/HOL
> 4) Jaymillo Pinas ST – 86C - Ajax/HOL
> 5) Bryan Brobbey ST – 87D – Ajax/HOL
> 6) Mohammed Ihattaren W/AM – 84D – PSV/HOL
> 7) Jayden Braaf ST – 85C – Manchester City/HOL
> 8) Dillon Hoogewerf ST - 83C – Ajax/HOL
> 9) Ian Maatsen CB – 80C – Chelsea/HOL
> 10) Kian Fitz-Jim AM – 75C – AZ/HOL
> 
> _HM: Melayro Bogarde (Hoffenheim), Ki-Jana Hoever (Ajax), Mohamed Taabouni (AZ)._



Very nice, and in depth list. It matches up pretty much with what I have as far as Dutch prospects go. A few things...

- I would put Bergwijn, Neres and Groeneveld over Dolberg. Yes he has a ton of potential but he's shown some worrying signs and all three of those other guys have kept progressing while also possessing similar top end potential.
- As much as I love Eiting I can't see an argument to have him ahead of Rigo who is oddly far down the list. I would have Rigo at #1 there. I would also have Stengs lower and Koopmeiners higher.
- I would have Obispo and Kluivert over Chong. On talent alone Chong is up there but he's a weird fit because I don't think he really has a 'best position' and thus misses out on the top end potential of some of the others since I think it'd take a very specific system to get the best out of him. Obispo doesn't get talked about much yet probably because he isn't a nailed on starter, but he should be starting for PSV. I still think Nunnely should probably be in the top 10, though I've been really disappointed with his progress.
- I would have Reis in the top 5 of his age group for sure. He looks very good for his age, especially in a very demanding position, and it's a pretty weak year overall. *EDIT:* I also forgot about Kokcu who should be in the top 5 as well; he looks very bright.
- I would have Llansana in the top 10 and Burger should be just behind Boadu (ahead of Zirkzee, probably). Redan is a stud.
- I have the 2002/03 class separated, and it's so hard when they're so young, but Ryan Gravenberch (I think you have a typo in your list there) is an absolute monster for his age. He and Brobbey looked just as good as Redan for the Netherlands at the u17 championship. I know Unuvar is a phenom and Simons gets a lot of hype for his play but I think Gravenberch should top that list for now, and Brobbey should be just behind Simons/Unuvar.

Not trying to nitpick or anything. Seriously, great job, even if I don't really want all this information being shared with some posters here in my dynasty league.


----------



## Ajacied

YNWA14 said:


> - I would put Bergwijn, Neres and Groeneveld over Dolberg. Yes he has a ton of potential but he's shown some worrying signs and all three of those other guys have kept progressing while also possessing similar top end potential.




I disagree. Dolberg showed greater promise in his rookie year than either of Neres, Bergwijn or Groeneveld have so far. He's proven so vs stronger European sides, too. Dolberg's setback is mainly due to injuries rather than incompetence or poor form. Groeneveld's upside is limited and he shouldn't be named within that same group. He failed at PSV as a teenager, but I am glad he found a nice podium to perform at in Brugge. I liked his uprise at NEC. I think there's a clear gap after Donny though. Bergwijn is definitely starting to realize his potential, after a rough first half last season. His speed, dribbles and constant drive to attack will make him one the candidates to start for Oranje in it's 4-3-3 one day. 



YNWA14 said:


> - As much as I love Eiting I can't see an argument to have him ahead of Rigo who is oddly far down the list. I would have Rigo at #1 there. I would also have Stengs lower and Koopmeiners higher.




Despite similar age, Eiting is much further along. He's actually cracking the deepest and toughest midfield of the Eredivisie at Ajax, while he also was a vital cog in making Ajax II champions last season. I think Rigo will breakout and perhaps even start a few games here and there, but Eiting is definitely a bigger prospect so far. He's also a rare breed in that he's a very technical and offensively gifted, deep lying DM/CM. He's much like Frenkie de Jong in a lot of ways.



YNWA14 said:


> - I would have Obispo and Kluivert over Chong. On talent alone Chong is up there but he's a weird fit because I don't think he really has a 'best position' and thus misses out on the top end potential of some of the others since I think it'd take a very specific system to get the best out of him. Obispo doesn't get talked about much yet probably because he isn't a nailed on starter, but he should be starting for PSV. I still think Nunnely should probably be in the top 10, though I've been really disappointed with his progress.




Chong is special. He already was at Feyenoord. I was really jealous of them back then. He was named United's talent of the year this past season. He's more of a winger than a CAM and always needs a little bit of free room to really flourish, but when on I really like his game. Should add some pounds as he is much of a lightweight so far, but his upside is higher than that of Kluivert or Obispo. Kluivert especially is way too inconsistent. He's played 3, maybe 4 real good games for Ajax and that's it. I don't think he has the right attitude to realize his full upside. Obispo has been talked about a lot here, but the fact remains that he's barely cracked a weak ass PSV defense. Rumor has it PSV are looking to loan him out this season. Lots of upside, but PSV's inability to develop its youngsters also plays a part in him being behind those 3, which is no shame. Also, Nunnely was impressive during the UEFA Youth League. He'll make his Ajax debut sooner or later. He has too with so much speed and power.



YNWA14 said:


> - I would have Reis in the top 5 of his age group for sure. He looks very good for his age, especially in a very demanding position, and it's a pretty weak year overall. *EDIT:* I also forgot about Kokcu who should be in the top 5 as well; he looks very bright.



The entire 2000 group is pretty weak. I think Pierie and Castillo are locks, but the rest are very close to each other, with 3 till some of the honorable mentions even being interchangeable.



YNWA14 said:


> - I would have Llansana in the top 10 and Burger should be just behind Boadu (ahead of Zirkzee, probably). Redan is a stud.



Zirkee is impressing for Bayern München and is seen as the successor of Lewandowski. He did well during their recent campaign. Burger needs to be more mature and consistent. Despite his skills he's still a long way in making Feyenoord I. 



YNWA14 said:


> - I have the 2002/03 class separated, and it's so hard when they're so young, but Ryan Gravenberch (I think you have a typo in your list there) is an absolute monster for his age. He and Brobbey looked just as good as Redan for the Netherlands at the u17 championship. I know Unuvar is a phenom and Simons gets a lot of hype for his play but I think Gravenberch should top that list for now, and Brobbey should be just behind Simons/Unuvar.



Yeah, thanks for the typo heads up! Gravenberch is an amazing prospect, being a regular in the U19 for Ajax at the age of 15 says a lot. I just feel that there's a little more extra in him if he would focus on being a CM and work on his defensive game. He could be another version of Pogba then. He's too lanky not to. Brobbey is special in that he's build like a gorilla; much like Lukaku. He really shrugs of defenders with ease during the U19 competition and really bullies his way towards the box. In my time watching and judging young teenagers I rarely see this translating well to the pro's, when the CB he faces are gorilla's themselves. Pinas is a year younger and much like Redan. You should check him out. He scores so easily.



YNWA14 said:


> Not trying to nitpick or anything. Seriously, great job, even if I don't really want all this information being shared with some posters here in my dynasty league.




Only the hardcore fans read these soccer prospect threads anyway..


----------



## YNWA14

Ajacied said:


> I disagree. Dolberg showed greater promise in his rookie year than either of Neres, Bergwijn or Groeneveld have so far. He's proven so vs stronger European sides, too. Dolberg's setback is mainly due to injuries rather than incompetence or poor form. Groeneveld's upside is limited and he shouldn't be named within that same group. He failed at PSV as a teenager, but I am glad he found a nice podium to perform at in Brugge. I liked his uprise at NEC. I think there's a clear gap after Donny though. Bergwijn is definitely starting to realize his potential, after a rough first half last season. His speed, dribbles and constant drive to attack will make him one the candidates to start for Oranje in it's 4-3-3 one day.




Failing as a teenager doesn't mean that you don't have potential. Plenty of world class players were released by big teams or small teams before making it at another club. Groeneveld was better this past season than Bergwijn or Dolberg have ever been, very much on the same level as Neres. I still think Bergwijn has more potential but I'm not sold on Dolberg, and it wasn't just an injury or form issue. Like I mentioned before Mertens was even older playing in the 2nd tier of Holland before breaking out. Some players just take longer to develop. He's got everything you need from a modern winger; speed, skill, directness, trickery and vision. His workrate needs to improve and he needs to get a little stronger but I wouldn't even be at all surprised if he ended up the best of him, Neres and Bergwijn.



> Despite similar age, Eiting is much further along. He's actually cracking the deepest and toughest midfield of the Eredivisie at Ajax, while he also was a vital cog in making Ajax II champions last season. I think Rigo will breakout and perhaps even start a few games here and there, but Eiting is definitely a bigger prospect so far. He's also a rare breed in that he's a very technical and offensively gifted, deep lying DM/CM. He's much like Frenkie de Jong in a lot of ways.




Eh...I don't think that you'd find many that would take Eiting over Rigo. Rigo has been a phenom for a long time, at NT level and through the PSV ranks. I also don't agree with Ajax having the toughest midfield in terms of quality; PSV has been comfortably better than them for years. Rigo's touch, vision, and offensive instincts are all higher than Eiting though I could see him being moved further up the field for those reasons; he reminds me of a more mobile version of Kroos.



> Chong is special. He already was at Feyenoord. I was really jealous of them back then. He was named United's talent of the year this past season. He's more of a winger than a CAM and always needs a little bit of free room to really flourish, but when on I really like his game. Should add some pounds as he is much of a lightweight so far, but his upside is higher than that of Kluivert or Obispo. Kluivert especially is way too inconsistent. He's played 3, maybe 4 real good games for Ajax and that's it. I don't think he has the right attitude to realize his full upside. Obispo has been talked about a lot here, but the fact remains that he's barely cracked a weak ass PSV defense. Rumor has it PSV are looking to loan him out this season. Lots of upside, but PSV's inability to develop its youngsters also plays a part in him being behind those 3, which is no shame. Also, Nunnely was impressive during the UEFA Youth League. He'll make his Ajax debut sooner or later. He has too with so much speed and power.



I'm not really sold on Chong. He's talented for sure, but his game IQ is certainly questionable and like I said positionally he is more of a '7 1/2' which makes him tricky to fit into teams and why he gets bounced from AM to W so often. His upside isn't as high as Kluivert or Obispo (some scouts and coaches actually think Obispo has a higher potential than de Ligt, fwiw). Kluivert's mentality will definitely affect how far he goes but he's always been better than Chong. I agree that Nunnely was impressive, but it's still been a bit disappointing given he looked easily the best in his age group 2-3 years ago.



> The entire 2000 group is pretty weak. I think Pierie and Castillo are locks, but the rest are very close to each other, with 3 till some of the honorable mentions even being interchangeable.



Agreed.



> Zirkee is impressing for Bayern München and is seen as the successor of Lewandowski. He did well during their recent campaign. Burger needs to be more mature and consistent. Despite his skills he's still a long way in making Feyenoord I.



Yeah but again Zirkzee also plays in a position it's easier to get noticed or break out at and takes less time to work your way into. I don't know about being the successor to Lewandowski either...he's still quite young and we're talking about preseason. Playing in the same NTs Burger has often been the heart of that team. We'll see moving forward but I like Burger a lot.



> Yeah, thanks for the typo heads up! Gravenberch is an amazing prospect, being a regular in the U19 for Ajax at the age of 15 says a lot. I just feel that there's a little more extra in him if he would focus on being a CM and work on his defensive game. He could be another version of Pogba then. He's too lanky not to. Brobbey is special in that he's build like a gorilla; much like Lukaku. He really shrugs of defenders with ease during the U19 competition and really bullies his way towards the box. In my time watching and judging young teenagers I rarely see this translating well to the pro's, when the CB he faces are gorilla's themselves. Pinas is a year younger and much like Redan. You should check him out. He scores so easily.



Pogba sounds like a lazy comparison but it's pretty much the perfect one for Gravenberch. Brobbey is also a pretty smart player and makes use of his physicality but you're right about those guys often having a hard time adjusting when hitting the pros so we'll see how it goes.

Cheers


----------



## Il Mediano

I keep hearing Kluivert's attitude is a problem (from Ajax fans) , but I haven't seen or heard a thing since he's joined Roma. In fact, by all accounts, he's been working his ass off training and is liked by his teammates. 

Curiously, the same was said about Ante Coric as well , and everyone loves the kid.

Not saying you're wrong , but that from all the available evidence so far in Rome , his attitude/work ethic has been stellar.


----------



## Ajacied

YNWA14 said:


> Failing as a teenager doesn't mean that you don't have potential. Plenty of world class players were released by big teams or small teams before making it at another club. Groeneveld was better this past season than Bergwijn or Dolberg have ever been, very much on the same level as Neres. I still think Bergwijn has more potential but I'm not sold on Dolberg, and it wasn't just an injury or form issue. Like I mentioned before Mertens was even older playing in the 2nd tier of Holland before breaking out. Some players just take longer to develop. He's got everything you need from a modern winger; speed, skill, directness, trickery and vision. His workrate needs to improve and he needs to get a little stronger but I wouldn't even be at all surprised if he ended up the best of him, Neres and Bergwijn.




You can't compare a successful season in the Jupiler League (now the Keuken Kampioen divisie) with Dolberg's rookie season, in which he scored 16 goals and 6 assists, to go along with another 6 goals in the Europa League, reaching the finals - as an 18/19 year old. That's insane. Groeneveld scored 8 goals and added 12 assists last season, but the second division of Holland is really putrid. His true upside will be more on display now that he plays for a top side in Belgium, but he has nothing going for him to be ahead of Dolberg, though I really think he can close the gap. PSV actually tried to get him back last season, leading to some cocky remarks from Groeneveld which he went public with. There are some concerns regarding his attitude. I like his upside, but I am taking Dolberg or Bergwijn here. Neres I'm not sure on. 




YNWA14 said:


> Eh...I don't think that you'd find many that would take Eiting over Rigo. Rigo has been a phenom for a long time, at NT level and through the PSV ranks. I also don't agree with Ajax having the toughest midfield in terms of quality; PSV has been comfortably better than them for years. Rigo's touch, vision, and offensive instincts are all higher than Eiting though I could see him being moved further up the field for those reasons; he reminds me of a more mobile version of Kroos.




Eiting is cracking a midfield which has Frenkie de Jong, Daley Blind, Lasse Schöne, Hakim Ziyech, Zakaria Labyad, Dusan Tadic, Donnie van de Beek, Daley Sinkgraven, Siem de Jong and Noa Lang all fighting for a spot. He's not only cracking it, but playing like he's been a regular for years. Some are playing out of position just because it is so crowded (Blind, Frenkie de Jong, Labyad, Tadic) or will leave because of it (Siem de Jong). Rigo is struggling to out perform the likes of Ramselaar, Hendrix and Rosario. They even bought Ryan Thomas (fine player, btw), to play at his position. Again, PSV sucks at developing its youth and this plays a huge part in whether players will reach their upside. 

PSV also has not been comfortably better than Ajax these past years. During the past 3 seasons, PSV only managed to get one point more than Ajax. The race is always close. Ajax, especially this season, has a much better squad, on paper, than PSV. 



YNWA14 said:


> I'm not really sold on Chong. He's talented for sure, but his game IQ is certainly questionable and like I said positionally he is more of a '7 1/2' which makes him tricky to fit into teams and why he gets bounced from AM to W so often. His upside isn't as high as Kluivert or Obispo (some scouts and coaches actually think Obispo has a higher potential than de Ligt, fwiw). Kluivert's mentality will definitely affect how far he goes but he's always been better than Chong. I agree that Nunnely was impressive, but it's still been a bit disappointing given he looked easily the best in his age group 2-3 years ago.




Agree about Chong's IQ. When I watch him he not always knows what he's about to do beforehand. I definitely feel his upside is higher than that of Kluivert (overrated) and Obispo (reasons mentioned above). And no scout or coach feel he's better than de Ligt. That was Aad de Mos, a former coach and wannabe analist for Ziggo sport. In fact, he stated yesterday that de Ligt is now much further along because of PSV inability to develop their youth, which I agree on (link: De Mos adviseert huurtransfer PSV: 'Of naar België, zou ook een goed idee zijn'). He wants him loaned out because of it. 

And yes Nunnely took a little dive these past years. He re-signed with Ajax when he could've signed for every big team in Europa then. Still a legit talent.




YNWA14 said:


> Pogba sounds like a lazy comparison but it's pretty much the perfect one for Gravenberch. Brobbey is also a pretty smart player and makes use of his physicality but you're right about those guys often having a hard time adjusting when hitting the pros so we'll see how it goes.




Gravenberch is just a one dimensional player right now, albeit a very good one, but I feel he can be so much more special when he uses his lanky frame much more in his advantage. At CM for example. He'll probably get a look there anyway. Most players go through multiple positions before settling somewhere. Cruijff wants every player to play and know every position before you're locked in for one.


----------



## Ajacied

Il Mediano said:


> I keep hearing Kluivert's attitude is a problem (from Ajax fans) , but I haven't seen or heard a thing since he's joined Roma. In fact, by all accounts, he's been working his ass off training and is liked by his teammates.
> 
> Curiously, the same was said about Ante Coric as well , and everyone loves the kid.
> 
> Not saying you're wrong , but that from all the available evidence so far in Rome , his attitude/work ethic has been stellar.




He works his ass off. He has that Ronaldo mentality, nothing wrong there.

It's because Kluivert only played a handful of quality games for Ajax. He barely was a starter and already he wanted to look abroad. Played hardball with Ajax, too. Basically handcuffed Ajax so that they also couldn't ask for more than the 21M they got. Just a cocky dude. A few days into his Roma career he already mentioned Barca was next. Promised stuff for Ajax he couldn't realize. Showboater on the pitch. Acts way over his head vs some of the more respected players of the competition.

Talented, yes. But overrated.


----------



## Il Mediano

Ajacied said:


> He works his ass off. He has that Ronaldo mentality, nothing wrong there.
> 
> It's because Kluivert only played a handful of quality games for Ajax. He barely was a starter and already he wanted to look abroad. Played hardball with Ajax, too. Basically handcuffed Ajax so that they also couldn't ask for more than the 21M they got. Just a cocky dude. A few days into his Roma career he already mentioned Barca was next. Promised stuff for Ajax he couldn't realize. Showboater on the pitch. Acts way over his head vs some of the more respected players of the competition.
> 
> Talented, yes. But overrated.




Yeah, if you're judging his potential based on the fact he wanted to leave Ajax , I wouldn't really call that wise.

He mentioned Barca was his dream club (when asked) because his dad played there. No one in Rome cared, it's not a big deal. Schick said the same thing last season, and he's not a cocky dude with bad work ethic.

He's 19, I'm not sure what unrealized promises he was supposed to fulfill for Ajax.

He hasn't showboated once in pre-season , and Strootman has taken him under his wing/has nothing but praise for the kid.

I'm not seeing this "overrated" , he's genuinely been one of our best players in pre-season and many are calling for him to be a starter for the 1st game already.


----------



## YNWA14

Ajacied said:


> You can't compare a successful season in the Jupiler League (now the Keuken Kampioen divisie) with Dolberg's rookie season, in which he scored 16 goals and 6 assists, to go along with another 6 goals in the Europa League, reaching the finals - as an 18/19 year old. That's insane. Groeneveld scored 8 goals and added 12 assists last season, but the second division of Holland is really putrid. His true upside will be more on display now that he plays for a top side in Belgium, but he has nothing going for him to be ahead of Dolberg, though I really think he can close the gap. PSV actually tried to get him back last season, leading to some cocky remarks from Groeneveld which he went public with. There are some concerns regarding his attitude. I like his upside, but I am taking Dolberg or Bergwijn here. Neres I'm not sure on.




I wasn't referencing their production, but the way they impacted the games they were playing. It was the skills, the decisions and the athleticism that stood out. We'll see moving forward, but he's already hit the ground running with Brugge and stood out instantly on the u21 team.



> Eiting is cracking a midfield which has Frenkie de Jong, Daley Blind, Lasse Schöne, Hakim Ziyech, Zakaria Labyad, Dusan Tadic, Donnie van de Beek, Daley Sinkgraven, Siem de Jong and Noa Lang all fighting for a spot. He's not only cracking it, but playing like he's been a regular for years. Some are playing out of position just because it is so crowded (Blind, Frenkie de Jong, Labyad, Tadic) or will leave because of it (Siem de Jong). Rigo is struggling to out perform the likes of Ramselaar, Hendrix and Rosario. They even bought Ryan Thomas (fine player, btw), to play at his position. Again, PSV sucks at developing its youth and this plays a huge part in whether players will reach their upside.




The thing is that he's not really directly competing with the best players on that list for a spot, and most of the players on that list aren't even very good. Big names, but overrated (like Ziyech has become). The fact that Schone still plays regularly for the Ajax midfield speaks volumes of that team's slump in quality. Rigo hasn't really been given a chance because of Cocu's anti-youth approach and PSV's lack of development in general. I hope that this will change this season with van Bommel at the helm. I really hope Eiting ends up the better player, but Rigo is more talented and has been better at every stage.



> PSV also has not been comfortably better than Ajax these past years. During the past 3 seasons, PSV only managed to get one point more than Ajax. The race is always close. Ajax, especially this season, has a much better squad, on paper, than PSV.




I mean, PSV has won the title 3 of the last 4 years and Ajax has won 0. Even if the title race has been close-ish, PSV has been obviously better and more consistent on the pitch.



> Agree about Chong's IQ. When I watch him he not always knows what he's about to do beforehand. I definitely feel his upside is higher than that of Kluivert (overrated) and Obispo (reasons mentioned above). And no scout or coach feel he's better than de Ligt. That was Aad de Mos, a former coach and wannabe analist for Ziggo sport. In fact, he stated yesterday that de Ligt is now much further along because of PSV inability to develop their youth, which I agree on (link: De Mos adviseert huurtransfer PSV: 'Of naar België, zou ook een goed idee zijn'). He wants him loaned out because of it.




I was talking about people I know of, not just one former coach. I also wasn't saying he was better now, but that some feel he has more potential. I agree about PSV's youth development though...it's been really bad.



> And yes Nunnely took a little dive these past years. He re-signed with Ajax when he could've signed for every big team in Europa then. Still a legit talent.




Yeah, and he's still young there's a lot of time there to turn it around and make good on it.



> Gravenberch is just a one dimensional player right now, albeit a very good one, but I feel he can be so much more special when he uses his lanky frame much more in his advantage. At CM for example. He'll probably get a look there anyway. Most players go through multiple positions before settling somewhere. Cruijff wants every player to play and know every position before you're locked in for one.



I think he's been playing CM for the most part; he definitely likes to get forward a lot but I agree I'm hoping his future is as an 8 where he can truly dominate the game.


----------



## Islesfan22

Giovanni Reyna son of Claudio going to Dortmund.


----------



## Ajacied

Il Mediano said:


> Yeah, if you're judging his potential based on the fact he wanted to leave Ajax , I wouldn't really call that wise.




I didn't? I am calling him overrated because he only played 3/4 quality games and barely cracked the first team as a regular. I think that combined with his mis placed arrogance definitely lower my expectations for him. He isn't well liked in Amsterdam anymore, but I hope he turns out well and am happy to hear he's doing fine for Roma so far. Oranje could use him on the wing in the near future.



Il Mediano said:


> He mentioned Barca was his dream club (when asked) because his dad played there. No one in Rome cared, it's not a big deal. Schick said the same thing last season, and he's not a cocky dude with bad work ethic.



He is more cocky than Zlatan Ibrahimovic, but you're right, his work ethic is just fine. Nothing wrong with that.



Il Mediano said:


> He hasn't showboated once in pre-season , and Strootman has taken him under his wing/has nothing but praise for the kid.



That's genuinely good to hear. I think Strootman can be just what his development needs.



Il Mediano said:


> I'm not seeing this "overrated" , he's genuinely been one of our best players in pre-season and many are calling for him to be a starter for the 1st game already.




Kluivert has been getting a lot of international praise, much moreso than nationally. He mostly attracts some attention because of his name, rather than his play on the pitch. Even winning 'best teenager' awards and finishing 6th in another talent race. Over the likes of Donnarumma, Vinicius Junior and de Ligt for instance. Doesn't mean a whole lot, but it does show he's hyped a lot.


----------



## Ajacied

YNWA14 said:


> I wasn't referencing their production, but the way they impacted the games they were playing. It was the skills, the decisions and the athleticism that stood out. We'll see moving forward, but he's already hit the ground running with Brugge and stood out instantly on the u21 team.




Yeah, I hope he does well. He scored two nice, individual goals vs Kortrijk I believe. Definitely going to watch Brugge's Champions League games. That's a huge step up from games in the Keuken Kampioen Divisie, so it will be interesting to see if he holds up.




YNWA14 said:


> The thing is that he's not really directly competing with the best players on that list for a spot, and most of the players on that list aren't even very good. Big names, but overrated (like Ziyech has become). The fact that Schone still plays regularly for the Ajax midfield speaks volumes of that team's slump in quality. Rigo hasn't really been given a chance because of Cocu's anti-youth approach and PSV's lack of development in general. I hope that this will change this season with van Bommel at the helm. I really hope Eiting ends up the better player, but Rigo is more talented and has been better at every stage.




Eh wait a minute. Agree on Schöne; Ten Hag wants an experienced vet at every line. Schöne plays a mistake free and decent all-round game, but he's slow and should be replaced with Donnie, who's now on the bench. But, Ziyech is all but overrated. That's the first I've read anything like this. He endures a lot of unfair criticism from some of the Ultra's because of some remarks he made, but the fact that he still plays in the Eredivisie is nothing short of a miracle.

Just some facts for you:

Leads the league in points (goals + assists) since he made his Heerenveen debut in 2013.
Lead the league in assists last season, with 15, for the 3rd time.
Lead the league in created chances with 143 last season. The second best had 95.
Lead the league in shots last season.
Conquered more balls than anyone else last season, with 280. Second best (El Ahmadi) had 249
Had the most successful dribbles last season with 215. Second best (Jahanbakhsh) had 195
Scores easily. His 18 goals in 2016 are among the highest scored by a midfielder.
Was named Eredivisie player of the year for a reason.
Granted it's the Eredivisie, but overrated by whom exactly? He's rarely talked about internationally and even here he gets some slack for being nonchalant and lackluster, which he isn't. He just has a "I don't care what the media and fans think about me - attitude" and some hold it against him. Just watch his most recent game vs Luik and you won't be making these ridiculous claims anymore. He did have a poor showing at the WC, I'll give you that. But Morocco is a mess in general, yet he still has accumulated 9 goals and 6 assists in just 21 games for them.

Rigo and Eiting are not separated by a whole lot, seeing the grades I gave them. Eiting just has a head start and Rigo a disadvantage playing for PSV. Should be nice to keep an eye out for.




YNWA14 said:


> I mean, PSV has won the title 3 of the last 4 years and Ajax has won 0. Even if the title race has been close-ish, PSV has been obviously better and more consistent on the pitch.



Agreed. PSV has been more consistent, had a better system in place and was well coached during these years. Ajax just had the better rosters and showed greater promise under Bosz.




YNWA14 said:


> I was talking about people I know of, not just one former coach. I also wasn't saying he was better now, but that some feel he has more potential. I agree about PSV's youth development though...it's been really bad.



I would like to read some of those opinions. Obispo having more potential than arguably the best defensive talent in the world sounds rather optimistic.




YNWA14 said:


> I think he's been playing CM for the most part; he definitely likes to get forward a lot but I agree I'm hoping his future is as an 8 where he can truly dominate the game.




I've seen him listed as a CM a lot, but that's false. He plays AM and is a pure playmaker.


----------



## YNWA14

Regardless of our differences in opinion I'm happy to read your takes @Ajacied; I think we can both hope for this coming generation to wipe our memories of this one. It's inevitable for a country like the Netherlands to go through these lulls I guess, but I'm really excited by the prospect of our national team having all of Unuvar, Simons, Gravenberch, Redan, de Ligt, Obispo, Bakker, Eiting, de Jong, Kluivert, etc. etc. in their primes playing together. There are always some who don't end up making it on their talent but it seems like there's much more talent in the pipeline from this coming generation of players (the spread from 97 to '02 has a lot to look forward to).


----------



## Savant

Liverpool beat Chelsea, United & City to sign Ajax teenager


----------



## JeffreyLFC

John Pedro said:


> It's not that low when you consider it's what they got for Richarlison (12,5M + 10% over Watford's profit in a new sell). Pedro being a late bloomer with no youth NT caps doesn't help, either. If he gets called up by Tite next Friday his value should skyrocket.
> 
> I like him a lot, he's a very underrated passer too. That pass was fantastic:




He just got called up!! Same with Paqueta!

Any chance he gets a UK work permit with this callup and some of the big premier league club get him?


----------



## Ajacied

Crap. I was already worried about him since he was one of few who didn't have a contract yet. Did not know so many big clubs were after him, seeing as he didn't make the cut for Oranje U16 this past spring.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Gouiri tears his ACL.


----------



## John Pedro

JeffreyLFC said:


> He just got called up!! Same with Paqueta!
> 
> Any chance he gets a UK work permit with this callup and some of the big premier league club get him?




I really don't have any clue about UK work permits and how it works. I feel like he should as Richarlison did with just u20 caps.


----------



## Savant

The only way to guarantee a work permit is to be Alex Ferguson . There is no unified criteria except that.


----------



## John Pedro

Rodrygo scored again today, 6 goals in 16.


----------



## Cassano

He is hailed as the next Eddie Nketiah - take that for what you will.


----------



## Il Mediano

Kluivert's debut. Came on in the 70th minute and completely changed the complexion of the match for Roma , whilst providing the game winning assist. 

Overrated. Overhyped.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

All Might said:


> He is hailed as the next Eddie Nketiah - take that for what you will.





He's already provisionally cap-tied to England, so he'd need to file a one time switch to play in official games for the USA. He's probably just considering his options here. This is only a friendly tournament.


----------



## YNWA14

Il Mediano said:


> Kluivert's debut. Came on in the 70th minute and completely changed the complexion of the match for Roma , whilst providing the game winning assist.
> 
> Overrated. Overhyped.




I've been touting him for years. Incredible talent.


----------



## Ajacied

Il Mediano said:


> Kluivert's debut. Came on in the 70th minute and completely changed the complexion of the match for Roma , whilst providing the game winning assist.
> 
> Overrated. Overhyped.





Nice first 20 minutes, but let him proof it for a full season before you jump to conclusions. Hope he does well and proves me wrong.


----------



## Il Mediano

haha you sure it's me who's jumping to conclusions?


----------



## YNWA14

Thought this was a pretty neat video. Two of the more promising players of the next generation of 'phenoms' that we know of. I really like how Simons plays...smart, technical, always has his head up but combines it with a high workrate. Dembele looks really, really impressive as well; good touch, smart plays, extremely explosive and good dribbler.


----------



## Evilo

Meh, they can't touch Hannibal Mejbri or Kays Ruiz' swag.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

YNWA14 said:


> Thought this was a pretty neat video. Two of the more promising players of the next generation of 'phenoms' that we know of. I really like how Simons plays...smart, technical, always has his head up but combines it with a high workrate. Dembele looks really, really impressive as well; good touch, smart plays, extremely explosive and good dribbler.





can't wait till they follow in the footsteps of legends like Odegaard, halilovich and Woo.


----------



## YNWA14

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> can't wait till they follow in the footsteps of legends like Odegaard, halilovich and Woo.



Definitely possible. There's so much that goes into a prospect's development that can't be measured. Talent, skill and intelligence are not necessarily indicative of becoming a star. The environment and mentality are so, so important (not to mention development not being linear, and other outside factors).


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

YNWA14 said:


> Definitely possible. There's so much that goes into a prospect's development that can't be measured. Talent, skill and intelligence are not necessarily indicative of becoming a star. The environment and mentality are so, so important (not to mention development not being linear, and other outside factors).



Not just possible but in fact probable. Agreed on the other things you mentioned though.


----------



## Ajacied

Il Mediano said:


> haha you sure it's me who's jumping to conclusions?




Seriously? I've followed him for years, whereas you have just witnessed his first 20 minutes. 
Slow down, cowboy. Enjoy him. I do, too. I'm just a little more hesitant after having watched him falter more than he succeeded at Ajax.


----------



## Il Mediano

Ajacied said:


> Seriously? I've followed him for years, whereas you have just witnessed his first 20 minutes.
> Slow down, cowboy. Enjoy him. I do, too. I'm just a little more hesitant after having watched him falter more than he succeeded at Ajax.




Yeah, but the difference is, I haven't said anything about him reaching or not reaching his potential because of his "attitude". I didn't say he's more cocky than Zlatan (how is that even possible?). I didn't say he slagged off Roma by saying he dreamt of Barca (he didn't).

All I've said is he looks really good so far in Rome, (based on training/preseason/his debut), and that this "overrated" label doesn't make any damn sense to me. Also his teammates and the manager all really like him. You could see how he was embraced after providing that assist. Dzeko and Strootman can't stop talking about the kid.

I haven't come to any conclusions about his future , I'm merely observing what I've seen. Which doesn't line up with what you've said --- at all. He was the best player on the pitch on his debut in Serie A....as a teenager. That's not normal, I can assure you.


----------



## Incubajerks

He started the same way as Iturbe after all. I hope for him they will not ruin it like they did with Iturbe. I like him a lot, (not like Iturbe at the beginning) and I mean a lot. Obviously I want to see him from the first minute how he works, how much he sacrifices then obviously here we are in Rome and it seems they have found Garrincha.


----------



## Incubajerks

Il Mediano said:


> I haven't come to any conclusions about his future , I'm merely observing what I've seen. Which doesn't line up with what you've said --- at all. He was the best player on the pitch on his debut in Serie A....as a teenager. That's not normal, I can assure you.




I'm afraid Magnani had the best debut objectively.


----------



## Il Mediano

Haha Roma didn't ruin Iturbe , he just wasn't very good. 

Every club in the world has missed on "promising" youth, yet Roma fans have a obsession with bringing up Iturbe.

What about Lamela? Marquinhos? Rudiger? Paredes? Under?

Sabatini was an above average DS who had some hits , and a tons of misses , but that was a different regime. 

We have Monchi now , and a coach willing to play/develop young players. Kluivert will not be Iturbe , I can almost guarantee that.


----------



## Il Mediano

Incubation said:


> I'm afraid Magnani had the best debut objectively.




Haha he's Italian... aged 22.... playing for Sass. How does that in any way compare to a 19 year old dutch kid playing for Roma?

He looked good for sure, but the comparison is pointless.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Iturbe lol totally forgot about that fella. How he scored 15 goals in the serie A is a mystery.


----------



## Il Mediano

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Iturbe lol totally forgot about that fella. How he scored 15 goals in the serie A is a mystery.




Yeah, it truly baffles the mind. He's playing in Mexico now.


----------



## Incubajerks

Il Mediano said:


> Haha Roma didn't ruin Iturbe , he just wasn't very good.
> 
> Every club in the world has missed on "promising" youth, yet Roma fans have a obsession with bringing up Iturbe.
> 
> What about Lamela? Marquinhos? Rudiger? Paredes? Under?
> 
> Sabatini was an above average DS who had some hits , and a tons of misses , but that was a different regime.
> 
> We have Monchi now , and a coach willing to play/develop young players. Kluivert will not be Iturbe , I can almost guarantee that.





Sabatini svela: “Nascosto un problema di Iturbe. Pallotta uomo insicuro”. E su Nainggolan-Inter... - Mediagol

yes, Iturbe has been ruined by ASR.


----------



## Il Mediano

lol.......Of course Walter is going to say that, do you think he wants to admit he screwed up royally with that purchase? Do you know Walter? ...Give me mercy. 

Yeah, Iturbe didn't have surgery - no , that didn't ruin his career. He wasn't very good dude, even before we bought him. 

Just watch him play at Verona. His decision making was horrendous, then. His career high was 8 goals before we bought him--- in any league.


----------



## Incubajerks

Il Mediano said:


> lol.......Of course Walter is going to say that, do you think he wants to admit he screwed up royally with that purchase? Do you know Walter? ...Give me mercy.
> 
> Yeah, Iturbe didn't have surgery - no , that didn't ruin his career. He wasn't very good dude, even before we bought him.
> 
> Just watch him play at Verona. His decision making was horrendous, then. His career high was 8 goals before we bought him--- in any league.




I don't know Sabatini, I know only a couple of agents who have the procura(translate, sorry!) of some young players from ASR and SSL having grown up together. On Iturbe, it is clear that you have limited knowledge of the player and have not followed him since he was playing with Paraguay. You would not talk about it this way. Ah, and for every good purchase Sabatini made I can list one already forgotten. On Magnani, yes, he's 22. Give me the D that in his debut (From Lega Pro) made me wonder if Icardi is playing. I must say that actually Icardi touched two balls yesterday. His own two. So yes, give me this D over Kluivert's 20-minute debut, which I still like a lot.


----------



## Il Mediano

Incubation said:


> On Iturbe, it is clear that you have limited knowledge of the player and have not followed him since he was playing with Paraguay. You would not talk about it this way.




He had 5 goals in 23 games in the Paraguayan league.

He then went to Porto to which he made 6 appearances in 3 seasons. No goals.

Then Porto sent him to River Plate in Argentina on loan. 3 goals in 17 games.

Then Verona bought him , and he inexplicably scored 8 goals playing for a counter side , where he didn't have to think that much.

Roma then bought him off that one season. He then scored 3 times in 44 games over 3 seasons for Roma. Pretty much exactly what he'd done his entire career outside of that one decent season playing for a countering minnow.

Walter screwed up massively for an overrated talent that had one fairly good year. I don't care that you want to believe a dude who's trashed every employer and every club he's ever worked for. After Roma fired him , he quit Inter over "disagreements" , and then Sampdoria hired him a few months later , and he quit that job after a couple weeks. He completely trashed those clubs in the media too. He's extremely self-serving and never critical of his own work.

If that's the guy you want to believe, go ahead. Iturbe was not some sensational "can't miss" prospect that we ruined. Not even close.


----------



## Incubajerks

You are judging a soccer player with numbers. Did you see him play with Argentina? Did you see him play with River? You do not know his career, it's not fair to evaluate it because in Rome (and every other place) he sucked. I assure you that the hype for Iturbe was greater than Kluivert, what interests me is that he doesnot make the same career.


----------



## Il Mediano

No, I'm judging an attacking player with numbers. He was _never _productive , except one season in Chievo. (which begs the question : if he was so damn good , how _the hell_ did Verona sign him?)

Kluivert played for one club before Roma bought him. One. he's 19.

Iturbe was 22 , and played for 4 clubs + Porto's B team (where guess what? he wasn't productive).

Just stop man. Iturbe was definitely hyped , but he _wasn't good. _He was brainless from day 1.

Kluivert actually understands the game.


----------



## Ajacied

Il Mediano said:


> Yeah, but the difference is, I haven't said anything about him reaching or not reaching his potential because of his "attitude". I didn't say he's more cocky than Zlatan (how is that even possible?). I didn't say he slagged off Roma by saying he dreamt of Barca (he didn't).
> 
> All I've said is he looks really good so far in Rome, (based on training/preseason/his debut), and that this "overrated" label doesn't make any damn sense to me. Also his teammates and the manager all really like him. You could see how he was embraced after providing that assist. Dzeko and Strootman can't stop talking about the kid.
> 
> I haven't come to any conclusions about his future , I'm merely observing what I've seen. Which doesn't line up with what you've said --- at all. He was the best player on the pitch on his debut in Serie A....as a teenager. That's not normal, I can assure you.




Ya, no shit Sherlock. He just arrived. That's what I meant with jumping to conclusions. Just wait a few months before you don't understand anything of the hyped and overrated tags he got sticked to his forehead. 

We'll discuss things later during the season, but I honestly hope he does well and continues his decent start.


----------



## Incubajerks

Il Mediano said:


> No, I'm judging an attacking player with numbers. He was _never _productive , except one season in Chievo. (which begs the question : if he was so damn good , how _the hell_ did Verona sign him?)
> 
> Kluivert played for one club before Roma bought him. One. he's 19.
> 
> Iturbe was 22 , and played for 4 clubs + Porto's B team (where guess what? he wasn't productive).
> 
> Just stop man. Iturbe was definitely hyped , but he _wasn't good. _He was brainless from day 1.
> 
> Kluivert actually understands the game.




Verona paid 16M and 3 months laterat the time, it was the most expensive purchase in the history of Rome, I think, but I could be wrong.
What I context to you,I do not know maybe you're young, is the perception today of what was Iturbe at the time. Because I repeat, Iturbe has been ruined by Rome,it is well known already before Sabatini's words.

Kluivertino, I like him a lot, it's just that I want to see him from the first minute, I'm sure he will do waves, I'm interested in seeing him in the field frequently.


----------



## Incubajerks

Incubation said:


> Verona paid 16M and 3 months laterat the time, it was the most expensive purchase in the history of Rome, I think, but I could be wrong.
> What I context to you,I do not know maybe you're young, is the perception today of what was Iturbe at the time. Because I repeat, Iturbe has been ruined by Roma ,it is well known already before Sabatini's words.
> 
> Kluivertino, I like him a lot, it's just that I want to see him from the first minute, I'm sure he will do waves, I'm interested in seeing him in the field frequently.


----------



## Incubajerks

i messed things up I think!


----------



## Il Mediano

Incubation said:


> it was the most expensive purchase in the history of Rome, I think, but I could be wrong.




Batistuta is still the most expensive purchase in Roma's history (crazy, right?). If Schick hits all his bonus payments he'll take that spot. 

I remember the Iturbe hype quite well. Like it was yesterday.


----------



## Il Mediano

Ajacied said:


> Ya, no **** Sherlock. He just arrived. That's what I meant with jumping to conclusions. Just wait a few months before you don't understand anything of the hyped and overrated tags he got sticked to his forehead.




Ok, will do.


----------



## Incubajerks

Il Mediano said:


> Batistuta




Here it is. Now I cry...


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Iturbe lol totally forgot about that fella. How he scored 15 goals in the serie A is a mystery.




the next Messi


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> the next Messi



He was once touted as the next big thing in Argentina. 

But he did always look like a headless chicken.


----------



## Cassano

Iturbe was definitely hyped back in the day, bigger name than Kluivert in transfer market rumors at least. I remember that summer the two biggest potential wingers to move were Alexis and Iturbe.

Everyone pointed to his production and flair as a 20 yr old Serie A player and he was ahead of Alexis at the same age.

I remember vividly that Atletico, Juve and Arsenal all wanted to sign him that summer.

I also remember Porto fans saying he was trash


----------



## alko

*Martin Ødegaard* is loaned to SBV Vitesse, Holland.


----------



## StevenF1919

Il Mediano said:


> Batistuta is still the most expensive purchase in Roma's history (crazy, right?). If Schick hits all his bonus payments he'll take that spot.
> 
> I remember the Iturbe hype quite well. Like it was yesterday.



I still think Schick will be a star. He was incredible at Sampdoria.


----------



## Il Mediano

StevenF1919 said:


> I still think Schick will be a star. He was incredible at Sampdoria.




I hope you're right, dude. He's having a hard time getting minutes from Dzeko in EDF's single striker system.

First season was a bit of a write-off due to injuries and acclimatizing to Rome , but he needs to kick-on this year. He looked great in pre-season.


----------



## StevenF1919

Il Mediano said:


> I hope you're right, dude. He's having a hard time getting minutes from Dzeko in EDF's single striker system.
> 
> First season was a bit of a write-off due to injuries and acclimatizing to Rome , but he needs to kick-on this year. He looked great in pre-season.



He's got all the tools to be an absolute stud. From what I've seen from him with Roma, his decision making has been letting him down a bit.


----------



## Il Mediano

StevenF1919 said:


> He's got all the tools to be an absolute stud. From what I've seen from him with Roma, his decision making has been letting him down a bit.




Yeah , his decision making, at times, has left a lot to be desired. Also, a ton of his minutes last year came as a RW , and that just doesn't suit him at all. Really, I thought his best performances came out of the 3-5-2 formation when he was playing alongside Dzeko , but EDF almost never uses that formation. He's a firm believer in the 4-3-3.

That said , even with his injuries, struggling to get minutes , and playing out of position last season, you could clearly see his class on the ball. He has rare ability for someone that size. Just needs to gain some confidence and hit his stride.


----------



## bluesfan94

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Iturbe lol totally forgot about that fella. How he scored 15 goals in the serie A is a mystery.



Well. He didn't


----------



## Outofbodyinhungary

Samuel Mraz from Slovakia is one to watch. Future of Slovak national team is in Italy and Spain


----------



## Il Mediano

Gerson looks to be finally finding his footing in Serie A



Glad it's just a dry loan.


----------



## Evilo

Phenom Kays Ruiz has signed his first pro contract with PSG. He's 16.


----------



## Bulbhead

Hannover's Linton Maina (19) was initially planned in as a backup for Haraguchi, but has been more than solid so far. After a strong first Bundesliga appearance vs Leverkusen last season, he has now been impressive against Dortmund. Dribbling and pace are not jaw-dropping, but good enough already to cause problems for an aging Schmelzer (not a real benchmark, but still) His passing game and defensive contributions are very solid already and so he suddenly looks the preferred first team option for his team.


----------



## S E P H

Don't really care about prospects in football, but found an interesting article showing the best U23 for all the five major European leagues. Thoughts? They had players for the benches, but chose to only write the starting XI.

*EPL*
Jesus (MCity)
Sane (MCity) - Alli (Spurs) - Martial (MUnited)
Torreira (Arsenal) - Keita (Pool)
Sessegnon (Fulham) - Christensen (Chel) - Sanchez (Spurs) - Bellerin (Arsenal)
Kepa (Chel)

*Bundesliga*
Werner (Leipzig)
Pulisic (BVB) - Goretzka (Munich) - Bailey (Lever)
Zakaria (Gladbach) - Weigl (BVB)
Pavard (Stuttgart) - Sule (Munich) - Upamecano (Leipzig) - Kimmich (Munich)
Muller (Mainz)

*Serie A*
Martinez (Inter)
Simeone (Florence) -------------- Chiesa (Florence)
SMS (Lazio) - Pellegrini (Roma) - Bentancur (Juve)
Lirola (Sassuolo) - Romagnoli (ACM) - Skriniar (Inter) - Cancelo (Juve)
Donnarumma (ACM)

*La Liga*
Gomez (Celta)
Lemar (AM) - Asensio (RM) - Dembele (Barca)
Arthur (Barca) - Rodri (AM)
L. Hernandez (AM) - Diakhaby (Valencia) - Gnagnon (Sevilla) - T. Hernandez (Sociedad)
Werner (SD Huesca)

*Ligue 1*
Dembele (Lyon)
Kamano (Bordeaux) - Aouar (Lyon) - Mbappe (PSG)
Tielemans (Monaco) - Ndombele (Lyon)
Jorge (Monaco) - Kimpembe (PSG) - Sarr (Nice) - Henrichs (Monaco)
Bernardoni (Nimes)​
​


----------



## Live in the Now

Alexander-Arnold is better than Bellerin.


----------



## S E P H

Live in the Now said:


> Alexander-Arnold is better than Bellerin.



He was on the bench for the EPL squad, but I unequivocally agree with you here.


----------



## Evilo

Awful list for L1.
Bernardoni over Areola? Seriously? Jorge doesn't belong. Sarr neither given his last season. Henrichs has just arrived. Why is here (and Jorge left BTW), same with Dembele? Tielemans has been underwhelming. Kamano doesn't belong either.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Awful list for L1.
> Bernardoni over Areola? Seriously? Jorge doesn't belong. Sarr neither given his last season. Henrichs has just arrived. Why is here (and Jorge left BTW), same with Dembele? Tielemans has been underwhelming. Kamano doesn't belong either.



Who do you have replacing said players.


----------



## S E P H

Evilo said:


> Awful list for L1.
> Bernardoni over Areola? Seriously? Jorge doesn't belong. Sarr neither given his last season. Henrichs has just arrived. Why is here (and Jorge left BTW), same with Dembele? Tielemans has been underwhelming. Kamano doesn't belong either.



The bench was...

Jules Kounde (Bordeaux)
Thilo Kehrer (PSG)
Kenny Tete (Lyon)
Lucas Tousart (Lyon)
Jonathan Bamba (Lille)
Martin Terrier (Lyon)
Ismaila Sarr (Rennes)


----------



## Il Mediano

S E P H said:


> *
> Serie A*
> Martinez (Inter)
> Simeone (Florence) -------------- Chiesa (Florence)
> SMS (Lazio) - Pellegrini (Roma) - Bentancur (Juve)
> Lirola (Sassuolo) - Romagnoli (ACM) - Skriniar (Inter) - Cancelo (Juve)
> Donnarumma (ACM)




Martinez-probably the right call even though he's a newcomer. The talent is pretty obvious. Cutrone might be another option. Schick has the talent , but hasn't produced in over a year.
Chiesa- no brainer
SMS- of course
Pellegrini-- eh, I'd love to be a homer here and agree, but he hasn't been overly amazing since returning to Rome. I think I'd have Barella in there if I'm honest.
Bentancur- sure. Diawara might be coming for his place, though, if Carlo plays him a lot
Lirola-- sure , there isn't a ton of competition
Romagnoli- yes
Skriniar- hell yeah, by far
Cancelo- yeah, most likely
Donnarumma- yeah , has to be for now , but Meret and Lafont might have something to say about it eventually.

Edit: I saw Simeone as an attacking player behind the striker. He's a pure CF , so they definitely shoehorned him in there. Good player, though. Kinda surprised Under didn't find his way on this list, but that will change after this season.


----------



## YNWA14

Live in the Now said:


> Alexander-Arnold is better than Bellerin.



I wonder if people are starting to come around on why I said that we didn't need Sanchez since we have Gomez. I would take Gomez over Sanchez in that spot also; I suspect by the end of the season that won't be a hot take.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

No Ascacibar lool


----------



## Live in the Now

YNWA14 said:


> I wonder if people are starting to come around on why I said that we didn't need Sanchez since we have Gomez. I would take Gomez over Sanchez in that spot also; I suspect by the end of the season that won't be a hot take.




I also suspect that may be true. I understand why people were so against that comment because Gomez was playing RB and not doing well, but there's no comparison between him at RB and CB.

Going to be hard for Lovren to get back in.


----------



## StevenF1919

Cutrone gets underrated because he isn't flashy. The guy is the second coming of Inzaghi.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Richie Ledezma who plays in the Real Salt Lake academy seems all set to join PSV in the next transfer window. He couldn't join this past transfer window as he only turns 18 on Thursday, so he's not old enough yet. He went on trial there in the summer, and supposedly did well. He's a technical CM who plays mostly as a box to box mid or CAM, although he can also play LW.


----------



## Ajacied

No Kluivert for serie A 

Eredivisie would probably look like:

————-—— Dolberg ——————-
-— Bergwijn —Lozano — Neres —-
———— F. de Jong - Eiting ————
Angelino - De Ligt - Pierie - Mazraoui
——————— Onana ———————

Bench:
- D. van de Beek
- Justin Bijlow
- Maximillian Wöber
- Guus Til
- Dante Rigo
- Calvin Stengs
- Myron Boadu
- Erick Gutierrez

What about you, @YNWA14?


----------



## YNWA14

I'll put something together soon.

That said I thought this was pretty neat. I mean, everyone knows about Mbappé at this point but it'll really be interesting to see how he deals with expectations moving forward and how he progresses as a player.


----------



## Evilo

PSG and Lorient product Guendouzi is being targeted by Herve Renard to play for Morocco. Guendouzi's father has the moroccan nationality.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

YNWA14 said:


> I'll put something together soon.
> 
> That said I thought this was pretty neat. I mean, everyone knows about Mbappé at this point but it'll really be interesting to see how he deals with expectations moving forward and how he progresses as a player.



M'bappé has so many El Fenómeno similarities.

The exception is that M'bappé was able to play at his first world cup (he is also 2 years older than Ronaldo was).

I could see him break many records and hopefully he is injury free his whole career unlike Ronaldo.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Jonathan Amon will not be long for the Danish first division. He's played 937 first team minutes, and has 6G and 5A. He's struggled with some injuries, otherwise he might've already been gone in the last window.

Nordsjaelland spotted him at 15 years old, and devised a plan to keep him out of the spotlight until he turned 18 and was eligible to sign. They knew if he remained in the spotlight a bigger club would snap him up, so they rarely played him in international tournaments for the youth teams. They also sent him to their academy in Ghana for a number of months to keep him hidden. In the USA, he was playing in the junior national teams up until that age. He had pretty much disappeared, which was strange but not much was thought of it. Once he turned 18, they put him into the first team.


----------



## MaxV

20-year-old Fedor Chalov with 6 goals through first 7 games. He has been very impressive dating back to last season.

CSKA is in Champions League, so he has a chance to make an impression at top level.

Edit: he had a nice assist today also, so not one-dimensional forward.


----------



## John Pedro

Lopetegui needs to give him a shot in La Liga


----------



## Evilo

Rayan Cherki, a name to remember, has scored a goal in Lyon 4-1 win at City in Youth League.
He's 15 year old, and 1 month.
It's a new record.


----------



## Live in the Now

No idea why Vinicius Jr. is playing for a B team. He's had scenes like that in every game so far.


----------



## YNWA14

Evilo said:


> Rayan Cherki, a name to remember, has scored a goal in Lyon 4-1 win at City in Youth League.
> He's 15 year old, and 1 month.
> It's a new record.



As mentioned in the topic Unuvar who is 2 months older than Cherki also scored. Will be interesting to watch them both going forward.


----------



## JeffreyLFC

What is the plan with Vinicius Jr.?
Why pay €50M to play him in the reserve? He is clearly above that level.
He should play with the main team or loaned out at a good club to get more experience


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

JeffreyLFC said:


> What is the plan with Vinicius Jr.?
> Why pay €50M to play him in the reserve? He is clearly above that level.
> He should play with the main team or loaned out at a good club to get more experience




He should ask Odergaard what the plan is.


----------



## John Pedro

Vinicius - Rodrygo - Paulinho, damn. This trident is borderline illegal at youth level.


----------



## Ajacied

Gravenberch made his Ajax debut vs PSV sunday, making him the youngest Ajax player to have made his debut ever. He was still 15 in May. He surpassed Clarence Seedorf.


----------



## robertmac43

Barca B talent Ballou Tabla committed to Canada today. Huge news for us as a Soccer nation. He is likely our second best prospect behind Davies.


----------



## Il Mediano

robertmac43 said:


> Barca B talent Ballou Tabla committed to Canada today. Huge news for us as a Soccer nation. He is likely our second best prospect behind Davies.




Nice!

You heard of this guy? 



18 years old , 6 goals in his first 10 games for Gent. Not too shabby.


----------



## robertmac43

Il Mediano said:


> Nice!
> 
> You heard of this guy?
> 
> 
> 
> 18 years old , 6 goals in his first 10 games for Gent. Not too shabby.





Yeah!! Jonathan looks great too! Soccer is finally becoming more exciting as Canadian National team fan. Here's hoping they somehow qualify for 2022!


----------



## Ajacied

Any way we can watch the older prospect lists? I can't find them anymore, but some of us (helicopter, @Evilo , me, Belgian Fan, etc.) made soccer prospect lists starting more than a decade ago.


----------



## The Abusement Park

I’m not entirely sure where to put this but I’ve been to a few University of Denver(D1) games this year and they have this Brazilian striker Andre Shinyashiki who’s incredible. He’s scored 17 goals in 8 games. Now I know it’s college and not the best level but he looks like someone who could turn out to be a damn good MLS player.


----------



## Live in the Now

Ajacied said:


> Any way we can watch the older prospect lists? I can't find them anymore, but some of us (helicopter, @Evilo , me, Belgian Fan, etc.) made soccer prospect lists starting more than a decade ago.




When the site changed platforms, almost all old posts had to be deleted for space reasons.


----------



## Ajacied

Yeah, I already was afraid that might've been the case. Thanks though.


----------



## YNWA14

Ajacied said:


> Gravenberch made his Ajax debut vs PSV sunday, making him the youngest Ajax player to have made his debut ever. He was still 15 in May. He surpassed Clarence Seedorf.



He also has now become Ajax's youngest ever goal scorer after scoring in a cup match yesterday. Mind, it was in a 7-0 win over a very poor opponent, but...


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I mentioned this guy earlier in the year, but Sebastian Soto has 9 goals in 8 games since joining Hannover U-19's. Prolific goal scorer. Scored 46 of them last year, which is the record in the U-19 division. He's been scoring prolifically as well for US junior teams. I think he'll be suiting up for Hannover's first team next season. Terrific scouting by Hannover. He could easily be at a bigger team. They also signed another young American this summer, Chris Gloster. Good scouting here, as well. Another who could've signed with a bigger team. Gloster's the youngest player in the reserve team this year. He skipped over U-19 level, even though thats his age-eligible team.


----------



## John Pedro

@Duchene2MacKinnon

do you know this kid from River? looks like a promising box to box midfielder.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> @Duchene2MacKinnon
> 
> do you know this kid from River? looks like a promising box to box midfielder.





Saw him play last month he's look fantastic, goes in hard on the tackle, passing is top notch and has a pretty hard shot. I don't remember the last time the NT had a player with his skill set. He just broke out for River too as a out an out starter. I have big hopes for him in the midfield even though it's very early. BTW he picked up an injury a few days ago and will not be playing in the up coming friendlies...

What I would like to see is how creative he is and if he has the ability to break the lines with his passing. If he does we could be talking about an elite player.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Saw him play last month he's look fantastic, goes in hard on the tackle, passing is top notch and has a pretty hard shot. I don't remember the last time the NT had a player with his skill set. He just broke out for River too as a out an out starter. I have big hopes for him in the midfield even though it's very early. BTW he picked up an injury a few days ago and will not be playing in the up coming friendlies...
> 
> What I would like to see is how creative he is and if he has the ability to break the lines with his passing. If he does we could be talking about an elite player.




He and Ascacibar would cover a lot of ground defensively, just need to see if they can provide enough on the ball to make it work.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

John Pedro said:


> He and Ascacibar would cover a lot of ground defensively, just need to see if they can provide enough on the ball to make it work.




I don't envision it being an issue. He might be too young to be a bonafide starter for the NT with Copa just around the corner. I'm hoping for a midfield of

Lo Celso-Messi-Correa/Coco/RDP
Ascacibar-Paredes


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Next Generation 2018: 60 of the best young talents in world football


----------



## Luigi Habs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Next Generation 2018: 60 of the best young talents in world football




This type of lists with such young players is often just a bunch of young kids around the world picked randomly to make a list. 
Look at the 2014 class. Very few became anything significant.


----------



## Evilo

Evilo said:


> Le Top 50 des meilleurs joueurs de moins de 21 ans à découvrir ici !
> 
> Top 50 U21 players according to L'Equipe.
> I don't expect much out of it since they are usually pretty awful at judging young talents and go with hype and style over substance.
> But it's always worth a discussion.



So as I said then, Mbappe not 1st is hilariously bad.

Meanwhile...


----------



## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Next Generation 2018: 60 of the best young talents in world football




Ed Carlos, Brazilian Pogba. I've watched a lot of him, I can confirm he's one of the best in his age group in Brazil. His only weakness is that he isn't as mobile as Pogba, but he's got all other tools. Very tall for a 17y old (1,88 cm), great vision, passing, high IQ, long shooting, technique... I can' wait to watch him in Copa Sao Paulo next year. Good thing Sao Paulo already renewed his contract.


----------



## Ajacied

Redan with a haul vs Bosnia. Quality 4 goals as well. He's been all over the Chelsea academy, playing with the U19 and U23 as a 17 year old. Hoping he really gets a fair shot in the near future.


----------



## YNWA14

Ajacied said:


> Redan with a haul vs Bosnia. Quality 4 goals as well. He's been all over the Chelsea academy, playing with the U19 and U23 as a 17 year old. Hoping he really gets a fair shot in the near future.



To be honest he's probably already Chelsea's best striker. He would look great playing with Hazard under Sarri.


----------



## Ajacied

I hope so. Chelsea isn’t exactly known for playing their youth, or rather Ajax’ youth in this case. Who are his biggest competitors and how far along is he really?

I think Redan should add some pounds first before I see him succeed vs the likes of big, imposing defenders such as Virgil van Dijk, from the bits I’ve seen.


----------



## bluesfan94

YNWA14 said:


> To be honest he's probably already Chelsea's best striker. He would look great playing with Hazard under Sarri.



The underrating of Giroud continues


----------



## VEGASKING

I'd hold off declaring him better than Morata until he actually plays his first minute at the senior level as well


----------



## phisherman

VEGASKING said:


> I'd hold off declaring him better than Morata until he actually plays his first minute at the senior level as well




He will get first team minutes. In Vitesse.


----------



## Evilo

Give him the Ballon d'or already.


----------



## YNWA14

VEGASKING said:


> I'd hold off declaring him better than Morata until he actually plays his first minute at the senior level as well



That's why I said 'probably'. Everything he does looks translatable to the senior level but you never really know that the transition is going to work out perfectly.


----------



## Ajacied

Ajacied said:


> I am working on this piece for a football website. Might as well post it here as it becomes an annual thing around here anyway. Still a concept version though.
> 
> Dutch/Eredivisie youth ranked by age. I clustered 2002 and 2003 as both categories are major long shots right now. Also included Nouri out of respect. If you have any questions or feedback, please do.
> *
> 1997*
> 1) Abdelhak Nouri AM - 90C – Ajax/HOL*
> 2) Frenkie de Jong CM - 88B – Ajax/HOL
> 3) Kasper Dolberg ST - 85B – Ajax/DEN
> 4) Steven Bergwijn W - 84B – PSV/HOL
> 5) David Neres W - 82B – Ajax/BRA
> 6) Donnie van de Beek CM - 80A – Ajax/HOL
> 7) Arnaut Groeneveld LW – 76B – Brugge/HOL
> 8) Guus Til CM - 70B – AZ/HOL
> 9) Vaclav Cerny W - 80D – Ajax/CZE
> 10) Noussair Mazraoui RB/RM - 70B – Ajax/HOL
> 
> _HM: Sam Lammers (PSV), Hidde ter Avest (Udinese), Philippe Sandler (Manchester City), Juninho Bacuna (Huddersfield Town), Matteo Casseira (Ajax)._
> 
> *1998*
> 1) Carel Eiting CM - 84B – Ajax/HOL
> 2) Calvin Stengs W – 83C – AZ/HOL
> 3) Timothy-Fosu Mensah D – 83C – Manchester United/HOL
> 4) Rick van Drongelen CB – 78B – HSV/HOL
> 5) Justin Bijlow GK – 80C – Feyenoord/HOL
> 6) Kaj Sierhuis ST – 80C – Ajax/HOL
> 7) Dante Rigo CM - 80C - PSV/BEL
> 8) Justin Hoogma CB/LB – 70B – Hoffenheim/HOL
> 9) Teun Koopmeiners DM – 72C – AZ/HOL
> 10) Javairo Dilrosun LW – 75D - Hertha BSC/HOL
> 
> _HM: Rodney Kongolo (Manchester City/Heerenveen), Hassane Bandé (Ajax), Giovanni Troupee (Utrecht), Maxmillan Wöber (Ajax), Dennis Johnson (Ajax), Julian Chabot (Groningen), Sherel Floranus (Heerenveen)._
> 
> *1999*
> 1) Matthijs de Ligt CB – 93B – Ajax/HOL
> 2) Tahith Chong RW – 87B – Manchester United/HOL
> 3) Justin Kluivert LW – 85C – AS Roma/HOL
> 4) Armando Obispo CB 85B – PSV/HOL
> 5) Maximilliano Romero ST – 85C – PSV/ARG
> 6) Perr Schuurs CB 82B – Ajax/HOL
> 7) Joel Piroe ST – 83C – PSV/HOL
> 8) Donyell Malen W/AM - 75C – PSV/HOL
> 9) Bobby Adekanye RW – 80D – Liverpool/HOL
> 10) Leandro Fernandes DM – 76C – Juventus/HOL
> 
> _HM: Emanuel Boateng (Lazio), Noa Lang (Ajax), Ferdi Kadioglu (Fenerbache), Che Nunnely (Ajax), Mitchell van Bergen (Vitesse), Owen Wijndal (AZ), Dylan Vente (Feyenoord), Deroy Duarte (Sparta), Nathangelo Markelo (Everton), Godfried Frimpong (Benfica), Anderson Lopéz (AS Monaco)._
> 
> *2000*
> 1) Juan Familia Castillo LM/LB - 81C – Chelsea/HOL
> 2) Kik Pierie LB/CB - 80B – Heerenveen/HOL
> 3) Achraf El Bouchataoui AM - 83D – Feyenoord/HOL
> 4) Jasper Schendelaar GK – 75B – AZ/HOL
> 5) Jurgen Ekkelenkamp CM – 75B - Ajax/HOL
> 6) Nicolas Kuhn ST - 77C – Ajax/GER
> 7) Kjell Scherper GK – 75B – Emmen/HOL
> 8) Mitchell Bakker LB/CB 76B – Ajax/HOL
> 9) Victor Jensen AM – 80C - Ajax/DEN
> 10) Millen Baars AM – 75D – Manchester United/HOL
> 
> _HM: Ludovit Reis (Groningen), Orkün Kokcü (Feyenoord), Dominik Kotarski (Ajax), Delano Ladan (ADO Den Haag), Lutsharel Geertruida (Feyenoord), Zakaria Aboukhlal (PSV), Kees de Boer (Swansea). _
> 
> *2001*
> 1) Daishwan Redan ST – 87C – Chelsea/HOL
> 2) Myron Boadu ST – 84B – AZ/HOL
> 3) Joshua Zirkzee ST – 85C – Bayern München/HOL
> 4) Manuel Pherai AM – 83C – Dortmund/HOL
> 5) Cheick Touré LW – 82C – Feyenoord/HOL
> 6) Wouter Burger CM – 82C – Feyenoord/HOL
> 7) Joey Koorevaar GK - 82C - Feyenoord/HOL
> 8) Liam van Gelderen CB – 80C – Ajax/HOL
> 9) Splinter de Mooij AM – 80C – Feyenoord/HOL
> 10) Vicente Besuijen AM – 75C – Roma/HOL
> 
> _HM: Colin Odutayo (Aston Villa), Kenzo Goudmijn (AZ), Sepp van den Berg (Zwolle), Denilho Cleonise (Genoa), Thomas Buitink (Vitesse), Jurrien Timber (Ajax), Tyro Nimmermeer (Lazio), Quinten Timber (Ajax), Anouar El Mhassani (West Ham United), Enric Llansana (Ajax)._
> 
> *2002/2003*
> 1) Naci Unuvar AM – 91C – Ajax/HOL
> 2) Xavi Simons CM – 91C – Barcelona/HOL
> 3) Ryan Gravenberch CM – 90C Ajax/HOL
> 4) Jaymillo Pinas ST – 86C - Ajax/HOL
> 5) Brian Brobbey ST – 87D – Ajax/HOL
> 6) Mohammed Ihattaren W/AM – 84D – PSV/HOL
> 7) Jayden Braaf ST – 85C – Manchester City/HOL
> 8) Dillon Hoogewerf ST - 83C – Ajax/HOL
> 9) Ian Maatsen CB – 80C – Chelsea/HOL
> 10) Kian Fitz-Jim AM – 75C – AZ/HOL
> 
> _HM: Melayro Bogarde (Hoffenheim), Ki-Jana Hoever (Liverpool), Mohamed Taabouni (AZ)._




Updated and final, more detailed version. Lots of changes as the list is made with someone else. Also added a current, total top 10 (note that the comparisons are solely based on style, not on potential).

*1997*
1) Abdelhak Nouri AM – 90E – Ajax/HOL*
2) Frenkie de Jong CM - 90B – Ajax/HOL
3) Steven Bergwijn W - 86B – PSV/HOL
4) Kasper Dolberg ST - 83B – Ajax/DEN
5) David Neres W - 82B – Ajax/BRA
6) Arnaut Groeneveld LW – 80B – Brugge/HOL
7) Donnie van de Beek CM - 79A – Ajax/HOL
8) José Angel Tasende Angelino 76B – LB – PSV/SPA
9) Guus Til CM – 70A – AZ/HOL
10) Noussair Mazraoui RB - 74B – Ajax/HOL
11) Pablo Rosario DM - 70A - PSV/HOL
12) Michel Flap AM - 71B - HEE/HOL
13) Sam Lammers ST - 70B - PSV/HOL
14) Alessio da Cruz W/AM – 70C – Parma/HOL
15) Vaclav Cerny LW – 76D – Ajax/CZE

_HM: Laros Duarte (PSV), Hidde ter Avest (Udinese), Philippe Sandler (Manchester City), Juninho Bacuna (Huddersfield Town), Matteo Casseira (Ajax), Mohamed El Hankouri (Feyenoord), Rasmus Nissen Kristenssen (Ajax)._
*
1998*
1) Carel Eiting CM - 84B – Ajax/HOL
2) Calvin Stengs W – 83C – AZ/HOL
3) Timothy-Fosu Mensah D – 83C – Manchester United/HOL
4) Javairo Dilrosun LW – 80C - Hertha BSC/HOL
5) Rick van Drongelen CB – 78B – HSV/HOL
6) Justin Bijlow GK – 76C – Feyenoord/HOL
7) Kaj Sierhuis ST – 76C – Ajax/HOL
8) Dante Rigo CM - 79C - PSV/BEL
9) Ritsu Doan AM - 75C - Groningen/JAP
10) Ferdi Druijff ST - 73B - AZ/HOL
11) Justin Hoogma CB - 75C - Hoffenheim/HOL
12) Teun Koopmeiners DM – 72C – AZ/HOL
13) Rodney Kongolo DM – 74D – Heerenveen/HOL
14) Maxmillan Wöber CB – 69B – Ajax/AUS
15) Sherel Floranus LB/RB – 68B - Heerenveen/HOL

_HM: Jasper van der Werff (Red Bull Salzburg), Dani de Wit (Ajax), Gianni dos Santos (Sparta), Hassane Bandé (Ajax), Giovanni Troupee (Utrecht), Dennis Johnson (Ajax), Julian Chabot (Groningen), Sherwin Seedorf (Bradford)._
*
1999*
1) Matthijs de Ligt CB – 94B – Ajax/HOL
2) Tahith Chong RW – 86B – Manchester United/HOL
3) Justin Kluivert LW – 83C – AS Roma/HOL
4) Armando Obispo CB 82B – PSV/HOL
5) Maximilliano Romero ST – 82C – PSV/ARG
6) Perr Schuurs CB 82B – Ajax/HOL
7) Joel Piroe ST – 83C – PSV/HOL
8) Donyell Malen W/AM - 80C – PSV/HOL
9) Bobby Adekanye RW – 80D – Liverpool/HOL
10) Nick Venema ST - 78B - Utrecht/HOL
11) Danilo Pereira ST – 80C – Ajax/BRA
12) Che Nunnely LW/RW – 79D – Ajax/HOL
13) Leandro Fernandes DM – 76D – Juventus/HOL
14) Ferdi Kadioglu AM – 74C – Fenerbache/HOL
15) Tyrell Malacia LB – 72B – Feyenoord/HOL
_
HM: Cody Gakpo (PSV), Owen Wijndal (AZ), Emanuel Boateng (Lazio), Noa Lang (Ajax), Mitchell van Bergen (Heerenveen), Dylan Vente (Feyenoord), Deroy Duarte (Sparta), Jordan Teze (PSV), Nathangelo Markelo (Everton), Godfried Frimpong (Benfica), Anderson Lopéz (AS Monaco), Halil Dervisoglu (Sparta)._
*
2000*
1) Mitchell Bakker LB/CB 83B – Ajax/HOL
2) Juan Familia Castillo LM/LB - 81C – Chelsea/HOL
3) Orkün Kokcü AM - 80C - Feyenoord/HOL
4) Kik Pierie LB/CB - 78B – Heerenveen/HOL
5) Achraf El Bouchataoui AM - 78C – Feyenoord/HOL
6) Jurgen Ekkelenkamp CM – 77B - Ajax/HOL
7) Millen Baars AM – 78B – Manchester United/HOL
8) Jasper Schendelaar GK – 76B – AZ/HOL
9) Nicolas Kuhn ST - 77C – Ajax/GER
10) Victor Jensen AM – 80C - Ajax/DEN
11) Ludovit Reis AM - 76C - Groningen/HOL
12) Delano Ladan W/AM - 75C - ADO Den Haag/HOL
13) Kjell Scherper GK – 73B – Emmen/HOL
14) Gianni van de Pitte AM - 72C - NAC/HOL
15) Yassin Nasser AM - 72C - Utrecht/PSV
_
HM: Lucas Leverland (ADO), Dominik Kotarski (Ajax), Lutsharel Geertruida (Feyenoord), Zakaria Aboukhlal (PSV), Kees de Boer (Swansea), Elayin Tavsan (Sparta)._
*
2001*
1) Daishwan Redan ST – 90C – Chelsea/HOL
2) Myron Boadu ST – 84B – AZ/HOL
3) Joshua Zirkzee ST – 84C – Bayern München/HOL
4) Manuel Pherai AM – 83C – Dortmund/HOL
5) Wouter Burger CM – 82C – Feyenoord/HOL
6) Liam van Gelderen CB – 80C – Ajax/HOL
6) Joey Koorevaar GK - 80C - Feyenoord/HOL
7) Crysencio Summerville RW – 80C – Feyenoord/HOL
8) Vicente Besuijen AM – 78C – Roma/HOL
9) Sekou Sibide RW – 78C – PSV/BEL/IVO
10) Yorbe Vertessen ST – 78C – PSV/BEL
11) Sepp van den Berg CB – 77C – Zwolle/HOL
12) Cheick Touré CM – 74C – Feyenoord/HOL
13) Shurandy Sando CB – 74C – PSV/HOL
14) Kenzo Goudmijn AM – 74C – AZ/HOL
15) Ramon Hendriks CB – 71C – Feyenoord/HOL
_
HM: Tyro Nimmermeer (Lazio), Marouan Azarkan (Feyenoord), Sydney van Hooijdonk (NAC), Christopher Mamengi (Utrecht), Denilho Cleonise (Genoa), Thomas Buitink (Vitesse), Jurrien Timber (Ajax), Quinten Timber (Ajax), Anouar El Mhassani (West Ham United), Enric Llansana (Ajax), Omar Rekik (Hertha BSC), Jimmy Kaparos (Schalke), Daan Reiziger (Ajax), Splinter de Mooij (Feyenoord).
_
*2002/2003*
1) Naci Unuvar AM – 91C – Ajax/HOL
2) Xavi Simons CM – 91C – Barcelona/HOL
3) Ryan Gravenberch CM – 90C Ajax/HOL
4) Brian Brobbey ST – 85D – Ajax/HOL
5) Mohammed Ihattaren W/AM – 84D – PSV/HOL
6) Melayro Bogarde CB - 83C – Hoffenheim/HOL
7) Jaymillo Pinas ST – 83C - Ajax/HOL
8) Jenno Campagne CM 82C - Ajax/HOL
9) Jayden Braaf ST 82C – Manchester City/HOL
10) Sontje Hansen W/ST – 83C – Ajax/HOL
11) Jeremy Antonisse W/CAM- 82C - PSV/HOL
12) Noah Ohio ST - 82C - Manchester City/HOL
13) Kian Fitz-Jim AM – 81C – AZ/HOL
14) Ki-Jana Hoever RB – 80C – Liverpool/HOL
15) Tein Troost GK - 80C - Feyenoord/HOL
16) Dillon Hoogewerf ST - 80C – Ajax/HOL
17) Ian Maatsen CB – 80C – Chelsea/HOL
18) Kenneth Taylor CM – 80C – Ajax/HOL
19) Mohamed Taabouni AM – 77D – AZ/HOL
20) Naoufal Bannis ST – 75D – Feyenoord/HOL

_HM: Jordi Altena (Vitesse), Heritier Bora Deyonge (PSV), Salah-Eddine (Ajax), Neraysho Kasanwirjo (Ajax), Dirk Proper (NEC), Syb van Ottele (NEC)._
====================================================================================

*Top 10 Dutch prospects:*

*1) Matthijs de Ligt CB – 94B – Ajax/HOL*
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX0THVpiYRI
Style comparison: Frank Rijkaard, or a mix between Pique and Vertonghen
Maxed potential: Best at his position

* Pro’s:*
- Strong, especially in the air
- An aereal threat on set pieces offensively
- Remains calm under pressure
- Outstanding tackler.
- Disciplined
- Passing is good, quality long ball. A CB to be trusted with the ball.
- Ball possesion is his number one priority, even in defensive battles.
- Wins most of his personal battles.
- A vocal leader. Ajax captain at 18 years old.

*Cons:*
- His acceleration is average. Likes to clutch and grab to compensate. Strikers should take more advantage of this.
- Sometimes still out of positon, often having to correct his own positional faults.
- Short, speedy forwards are his kryptonite.
- Should butcher the ball more during pressure situations.
- Hard shot, but never shoots on goal or gets himself in the position to.

*2) Naci Unuvar AM - 91C - Ajax/HOL*
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud0AqJzoTKA&t=4s
Style comparison: Mix between Kaká and Messi
Maxed potential: Top 5 at his position

*Pro’s:*
- Outstanding dribbler
- Creates space for his teammates
- First touch is excellent.
- Quick, agile, light footed.
- Outstanding vision; reads plays well.
- Above average shot; more touch than power.
- Creative, technical – joy to watch.
- Very smart player; high football IQ; has continuesly played vs boys 2 to 4 years older.

*Cons:*
- Short in size, though at 15 should still grow and beefen up more.
- Can be a bit to enthusiastic.
- Defensively there’s still a lot of room to grow. He saves his energy when his team doesn’t have possession.
- Plays with a lot of risk in his game; prone to turnovers.

*3) Xavi Simons CM - 91C - Barcelona/HOL*
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ8BroO4MqM&t=1s
Style comparison: mix between Xavi and Edgar Davids
Maxed potential: Top 5 at his position

*Pro’s:*
- Fast, with or without the ball. First touch is top notch.
- Thinks very quickly.
- Finds openings rather effortlessly.
- Outstanding through ball.
- Creates space and opportunities for his teammates
- Works hard, defends well; passionate.
- A real director on the pitch; directs the tempo of the match.
- High football IQ
- A vocal leader

*Cons:*
- Should shoot more often. He can be too generous with his passing.
- Size, much like Unuvar, is rather short, but he might still grow, nor does it affect players with his IQ much.
- Can be too fancy. I think he can be even more effective with his playmaking.

*4) Frenkie de Jong CM - 90B - Ajax/HOL*
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7go9SsN9BaE
Style comparison: Mix between Beckenbauer and Iniesta
Maxed potential: Best at his position

*Pro’s:*
- Excellent at creating space; Frenkie’s dribbles and body fakes attract opposing players, creating more room for his teammates.
- Excellent vision and passing – long or short.
- Always remains calm; shows a lot of patience with the ball.
- Everything he does has a purpose on the pitch; very high football IQ.
- A ball hog, but always wants to move forward, even in hopeless or pressured situations.
- Positionally sound & a quality tackler; making him a reliable stand in defender as well

*Cons:*
- Still rather weak in personal battles vs the bigger players out there.
- Weak with his head.
- His shot is non-existant; rarely, if ever shoots the ball.
- His playing style comes with a lot of risks; prone to turnovers.
- Leads by example, not much of a vocal leader; rather quiet even.

*5) Dashaiwn Redan ST - 90C - Chelsea/HOL*
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uO6T60g7Jo
Style comparison: Patrick Kluivert
Maxed potential: Top 10 at his position

*Pro’s: *
- Complete striker. Strong with both feet, okay with his head, can be a pinchhitter or create opportunities himself.
- Times his runs without the ball perfectly – always gets his fair share of chances.
- Has the speed, guts and technique to be an effective winger, too.
- Lateral speed, turns quickly, making him hard to guard even with his back towards the goal.
- Scores easily. Doesn’t need a whole lot of time or space.

*Cons:*
- His final delivery often lacks accuracy.
- Can be very nonchalant as the game goes on; overconfident with his trickery or shot.
- Should improve his heading. He can waste some perfect heading opportunities.
- Can be very negative towards his teammates when things aren’t going well.
- Not all that tall; around 1.77.

*6) Ryan Gravenberch CM - 90C - Ajax/HOL*
www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4ynoBAr-O8
Style comparison: Paul Pogba
Maxed potential: Top 10 at his position

*Pro’s:*
- Tall, physical, albeit still lanky, midfielder; uses his size and reach very well.
- Creative; quality playmaker, which is his main quality.
- Speedy for his size.
- Calm; knows when to speed things up or slow things down. No nerves.
- Defensively imposing.
- Powerful player; hard nosed in battles, hard shot, but also shows finesse in his playmaking and technique.
- Versatile; can play at all three midfield positions (DM, CM, AM or even wide).
- Leadership. Very talkative during his youth team days. This is much less for jong Ajax or Ajax, but that’s understandable.

*Cons:*
- Can be prone to making unnecessary fouls at unnecessary moments.
- Rather wild shot. Should be more precise with his chances. I’ve head his teammates yell: “go get it yourself!” – whenever he was about to shoot from outside the box during practice.
- His versatility can actually hurt his development. Doesn’t appear to have picked a primary position yet, or better said his coaches. Even played parts as a striker during earlier youth matches.

*7) Tahith Chong RW – 86B – Manchester United/HOL *
www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0mr21H7Wn0
Style comparison: George Best
Maxed potential: Top 10 at his position

* Pro’s:*
- Lots of speed; especially his first steps.
- Outstanding technique and plays with a lot of flair; uses it effectively.
- Runs all the time and passes his man easily. Trickery and agility makes him hard to defend.
- Defends and willing to do the dirty work.
- Reads the game well and, even at top speed, has the touch to play outstanding through balls.
- Cuts inside a lot, not the typical backline-crossing-winger.

*Cons:*
- Sometimes goes on runs without a plan – like a headless chicken.
- Very lanky and a light weight. I think the primary reason he hasn’t made his debut yet, as he has the raw talent to compete with the likes of Martial and Rashford already.
- Often wanting to do too much. Picking up balls at midfield or suddenly finding himself defending on the other side. Needs to have a coach to put him on a short leash. Mourinho would’ve been a good one if he were to be a more youth orientated coach.

*8) Steven Bergwijn LW - 85B - PSV/HOL*
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ1rIvQ3sHc
Style comparison: Mix between Rob Rensenbrink and Eden Hazard
Maxed potential: Top 10 at his position.

* Pro’s:*
- Lightning fast; acceleration and top speed.
- Strong for his size; feisty and passionate.
- More of a scoring, self-creating winger than he is a backline-crossing-winger.
- Technique and touch is outstanding; very trickery.
- Likes to run a lot with the ball. Passes his opponents rather effortlessly.
- Hard to defend due to his speed and agility. Avoids tackles easily.
- Powerful shot; albeit predictable, much like Robben shoots, though it needs work.
- Can switch and be used as a modern free-roaming striker as well; ala Mertens, Aguero.

*Cons:*
- Wild and a lose cannon at times. His ball handling is lacking at times.
- Needs to have confidence. Can play real dull for stretches if he doesn’t have his mojo.
- His efficiency needs to be better.
- I think his crosses need work.
- Not much of threat with his head.

*9) Brian Brobbey ST - 87D - Ajax/HOL*
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0zmAc8Dyz8
Style comparison: Didier Drogba
Maxed potential: Top 10 at his position
*
Pro’s:*
- Ridiculously strong (club even forbids him to work with weights now); imposing forward.
- Likes to play with his back towards the goal, hold the ball and wait for his teammates to position themselves, or turn and shoot himself.
- Underrated speed for a man his size, especially when at full speed.
- Powerful shot and a strong, fearless header.
- Deadly in the box. Knows where to be at the right time.
- Even played winger before, and while his main assets were wasted there, he better understands when and where to anticipate on crosses.

*Cons:*
- Not much of a playmaker.
- No finesse.
- A deep lying striker; not that useful without the ball.
- Needs to surround himself with playmakers and crossing wingers to be most effective.
- His physical head start will level out once he reaches Ajax I. Will be interesting to see how he holds up.

*10) Carel Eiting CM - 84B - Ajax/HOL*
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix-mfKeQ22Y
Style comparison: Philip Cocu
Maxed potential: Top 15 at his position

* Pro’s:*
- Complete midfielder.
- Quick thinker. High football IQ. His nickname is “the professor”.
- Always wants to move forward, even in high pressured situations.
- Calm and mature for his age.
- Likes to direct play and play long through balls.
- Does a lot of the little things right (prevents breakouts, closes gaps, smart combinations); a silent force.

* Cons:*
- Strenght. Not the strongest player and often has to put more energy in personal battles than he wants to.
- His speed is average.
- Should be more vocal for his position and the touches he is getting.


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## ecemleafs

Celtic wunderkid karamoko dembele that made headlines a year or so ago for appearing as a 14 year old in an u20 team started for celtics reserve team and scored. He's 15 years old now.


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## Juni

Loving the new Dutch lists @Ajacied! Wanted to weigh in on Ian Maatsen, who has made a big impression on me in his first three months in England. He's almost always played as a LWB, but did spend time as a LCB in a back three in the 10-1 win against Molde, mostly because Chelsea didn't need the defenders there, it meant he and Castillo could both play and influence the game going forward.

He reminds me quite a lot of Patrick van Aanholt when he was at Chelsea; to an extent it's an obvious comparison because they share a position, but he has a similar confidence to own the whole side of the pitch, desire to get into the attacking third and make a difference, and supreme athleticism. He trusts his technique in every situation and looks like a player who'll have a 10-12 year top-level (and international) career, even if he might not be a spectacular top-tier superstar.


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## Ajacied

Awesome to hear that Juni. If he would focus on LB more that would be great, as for once Oranje are quite deep at CB, both now and down the line. The comparison with van Aanholt is intriguing. I've heard PSV fans compare him to Riccardo van Rhijn before; who was a major talent back in his Ajax days as a RB, so I can understand the move to the side.

How would you compare him to Castillo? Who's further ahead and who's more likely to get a peek with Chelsea I?


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## Pavel Buchnevich

American winger Konrad de la Fuente, 17 year old born in 2001, is having a very impressive season at Barcelona. He's been the standout in Barcelona's Juvenil A team so far this season, and made the bench for the B team about a week ago. No one makes it out of La Masia anymore into the first team, so I don't think he's going to become a fixture at Barcelona, but he could become the first American to play a match for Barcelona and he's one of the top young prospects in Europe at the moment.


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## Juni

Ajacied said:


> Awesome to hear that Juni. If he would focus on LB more that would be great, as for once Oranje are quite deep at CB, both now and down the line. The comparison with van Aanholt is intriguing. I've heard PSV fans compare him to Riccardo van Rhijn before; who was a major talent back in his Ajax days as a RB, so I can understand the move to the side.
> 
> How would you compare him to Castillo? Who's further ahead and who's more likely to get a peek with Chelsea I?




Castillo's much further ahead but that's solely because of age and experience and time to develop. Castillo's become really impressive over the last year, he's a powerhouse physically now, and is ready for men's football. He basically just plays as an attacker now, even when he's at LWB (his most common position) he doesn't get tasked with too much defensive work, so it'll be interesting to see how he does when he gets into more challenging environments. He's good when he has to do it, he just doesn't face it as often as you want if you see his future being LB.

Maatsen can get to that level though, he looks to have the frame to add to as he grows, and has some of the same attitude. You can see Castillo's played centrally before in the way he approaches some creative situations, that benefits him, I need to see more of Maatsen to work out if he has that in his locker too though. Early signs are promising.


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## YNWA14

So just an update on this Youssoufa Moukoko kid...still 13 he's still playing in the u17 league and building on last season (40 goals, 7 assists in 28 games) he has started this season with 17 goals, 5 assists in 10 games so far. Have to think they'll bump him up again this year despite his age? He's clearly beyond that level.


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## Cassano




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## John Pedro

Helinho, 18y old, 5 minutes into his pro debut for Sao Paulo, scored this goal. He was Vinicius Jr's replacement at u17 World Cup last year.


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## John Pedro




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## John Pedro

Fernando Ovelar, a 14y old kid has scored for Cerro in their derby against Olimpia.

14 years old.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

John Pedro said:


> Helinho, 18y old, 5 minutes into his pro debut for Sao Paulo, scored this goal. He was Vinicius Jr's replacement at u17 World Cup last year.





What do you know about Reinier Jesus? I've read good things about him.


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## GeorgeLeafer12

There are few good Finnish prospects in the making.


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## John Pedro

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> What do you know about Reinier Jesus? I've read good things about him.




Only watched a few matches he played in the u20 this year and last year in the Sudamericano under 15. He looks amazing. Nice body for a 16y old, great technique and vision, good IQ and isn't a ball hog like many of those ultra-talented kids. He's probably the best 2002 born prospect in the country alongside Kaio Jorge from Santos. He's similar to Paqueta in playing style.


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## Savant

USA is trying to flip Kik Pierie (LB/CB - 81B – Heerenveen/HOL) to their National Team


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## Ajacied

Savant said:


> USA is trying to flip Kik Pierie (LB/CB - 81B – Heerenveen/HOL) to their National Team




USA are trying everyone with some American roots right now. And they should, why not. Pierie was born there but moved to Holland when he was just a few months old. He’s represented Oranje in most youth tournaments and could be real Oranje material down the line. Not sure he’ll get a real shot with de Ligt, van Dijk, de Vrij, Aké, Blind crowding his preferred positions, not to mention the likes of Obispo and Schuurs on the verge of breaking through. 

I would understand his decision if he were to chose for the stars and stripes.


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## alko

John Pedro said:


> Fernando Ovelar, a 14y old kid has scored for Cerro in their derby against Olimpia.
> 
> 14 years old.




There are no age-limits in this leagues? And is he really such gifted?


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## Luigi Habs

Pierie is not american. His parents are not even american. He just happened to be born there when his father was working there and never returned back. I’m surprised he’s even showing interest. 

Under Trump’s law he wouldn’t have gotten American citizenship lol.


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## Savant

Luigi Habs said:


> Pierie is not american. His parents are not even american. He just happened to be born there when his father was working there and never returned back. I’m surprised he’s even showing interest.
> 
> Under Trump’s law he wouldn’t have gotten American citizenship lol.



Maybe he wants minutes. All I know is USMNT rightfully wants him and their LB spot is a black hole.


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## SJSharks72

Savant said:


> Maybe he wants minutes. All I know is USMNT rightfully wants him and their LB spot is a black hole.



I wouldn’t say black hole. Striker is worse. They have Robinson, who has shown a lot.


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## Savant

SJSharks39 said:


> I wouldn’t say black hole. Striker is worse. They have Robinson, who has shown a lot.



Its both bad.


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## SJSharks72

Savant said:


> Its both bad.



Every position except midfield and center back has no depth. And pretty much every position is bad.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

He actually is American by law. The “how (insert country name) is this player” debates are completely useless. It’s up to the country’s laws and the person to decide.

Let the kid make his own choice, and it should be respected either way. It’s his life, not the life of any fan who is happy or upset with what goes on with their National football team.

Saying that, I think his comments were more of a “he’ll consider it eventually if he’s not a regular in the Dutch National Team” approach. I don’t think he’s switching anytime soon.


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## Duchene2MacKinnon

If he's good enough for the Dutch he'll play for them... if not he'll "choose" the US in which case, the Dutch won't care. Even if he developed under them.


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## John Pedro

alko said:


> There are no age-limits in this leagues? And is he really such gifted?




I didn't know him until he scored, so I can't tell. He showed a nice touch and composure in his goal, though. Must be really good for them to risk putting a kid with no professional contract in such a big game.


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## John Pedro

@Pavel Buchnevich watched Sao Paulo x Flamengo yesterday for the u17 Brazilian Cup, the game ended 2-2. Reinier was a beast, heads and shoulder above every other player on the pitch. He scored a goal, had a assist and hit the post. His goal is the first of the video (he's the nr 10)


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## Pavel Buchnevich

John Pedro said:


> @Pavel Buchnevich watched Sao Paulo x Flamengo yesterday for the u17 Brazilian Cup, the game ended 2-2. Reinier was a beast, heads and shoulder above every other player on the pitch. He scored a goal, had a assist and hit the post. His goal is the first of the video (he's the nr 10)





I heard good things about him. He played recently in a tournament in England with the Brazil sub 17's, and he was apparently their best player all tournament, but also in a loss to the USA. 

Brazil usually plays every year at the Nike Tournament in Florida, and that should be his age group this year, so I'll likely get to see him play. Vinicius and Rodrygo both played at that tournament. Rodrygo played in 2015, Vinicius in 2016. It should've been the opposite, but for some reason thats how it meant. I didn't get to watch Rodrygo play, but I remember watching Vinicius, and he was incredibly good. He was going places, and it was clear.


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## Evilo

Guendouzi was the best player in France U21 draw (2-2) with Croatia. He's developping at an impressive rate.


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## Savant

Liverpool have promoted 16 year old (former Ajax) full back, Ki-Jana Hoever to u23. He is starting at RB and was Man of the Match in the mini-derby. One to keep an eye on.

The three-word assessment of wonderkid who has Liverpool VERY excited


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## Savant

Savant said:


> Liverpool have promoted 16 year old (former Ajax) full back, Ki-Jana Hoever to u23. He is starting at RB and was Man of the Match in the mini-derby. One to keep an eye on.
> 
> The three-word assessment of wonderkid who has Liverpool VERY excited



...And less than a month later he is training with the First Team. At 16. With a team with an injury crisis at his position. 

You never know...


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## ecemleafs

ecemleafs said:


> Celtic wunderkid karamoko dembele that made headlines a year or so ago for appearing as a 14 year old in an u20 team started for celtics reserve team and scored. He's 15 years old now.



Signed his first professional contract with celtic today! He is eligible to play in competitive games when he turns 16 in February. Brendan Rodgers has hinted that dembele will accompany the first team in a winter break trip to Dubai next month.


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## YNWA14

Keep an eye on Gerrard's cousin Bobby Duncan. He looks very good for his age along with Glatzel.


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## Le Tricolore

Thread's over 1000. Let's go here: Soccer Prospect Discussion Thread V


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