# German football 2019/2020



## Bon Esprit

Some teams started training camp today, so a new season starts.


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## Bon Esprit

Here's one of my favourite comeback stories I have ever witnessed



Dynamo Dresden (2nd in GDR league) vs. Bayer Uerdingen (7th in FRG league)

Both were cupwinners in their leagues and matched up in the quarters of the Euro.Cup winners contest.

Dresden won 2-0 in first leg and was up 3-1 after the tirst half of the second leg (5-1 combined).

Then the miracle happened...

Look at the Dresden roster. This was the best of the best at that time:

Wunder von der Grotenburg – Wikipedia


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## Bon Esprit

Valentino Lazaro leaves Hertha for Inter. Fee is 22m to 25m. Never knew he was that good.
https://www.transfermarkt.de/neuer-...sel-zu-inter-mailand-perfekt/view/news/339542


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Valentino Lazaro leaves Hertha for Inter. Fee is 22m to 25m. Never knew he was that good.
> https://www.transfermarkt.de/neuer-...sel-zu-inter-mailand-perfekt/view/news/339542




I think he's a good RWB. Inter sometimes overpays for players, so the fee may be high.


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## Bon Esprit

Some new Bundesliga jerseys. I like what Fortuna did and Eintracht, too, The rest is meh to ugly imo.

Bundesliga: Die neuen Trikots der Klubs zur Saison 2019/20


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## Bon Esprit

Neven Subotic to Union Berlin. I like that guy.


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## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> Neven Subotic to Union Berlin. I like that guy.




Here's to hoping the progress on the Friedrich front amounts to something as well


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## Bon Esprit

cgf said:


> Here's to hoping the progress on the Friedrich front amounts to something as well



You just signed Stuttgart's deadwood Gentner as well. nonetheless wish Union luck next season.


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## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> You just signed Stuttgart's deadwood Gentner as well. nonetheless wish Union luck next season.




Between Gentner, Ujah and Subotic's corpse, we should have all of the "experience" that we could ask for!...

Luckily we got Friedrich back to anchor our backline; which leaves only FB as a clear weak point on the roster. As Promel, Schmiedebach, Kroos & Gentner should be ok...hopefully. Kade, Hartel, Mees, Abdullah, Gogia and Becker might even give us some decent creative impulses...and we had to beat out Hertha, Werder & Frankfurt to sign that Danish forward that we nabbed to battle with Andersson, Polter, Ujah & (maybe) Dehl. 

Certainly more of a top 2nd league roster than a solidly 1st league one, but that's what we are


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## Bon Esprit

Max Kruse has a new club. He'll be at Fenerbahce next year. Contract goes like this: 1,5 m hand money, 2,3 m in wages and a mnsion (Fener pays the rent for one year)
Offiziell: Max Kruse wechselt zu Fenerbahce Istanbul - kurioses Gehalt für Ex-Werder-Kapitän

And this is what HSV players made in 2018.
https://hsv24.mopo.de/2018/07/22/gehaltsliste-aufgetaucht-so-viel-kassierten-die-hsv-profis.html

So an established (former) NT player makes a little more than Lewis Holtby or Lasogga.


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## Albatros

He could have got more money elsewhere but apparently signed for the experience.


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## Bon Esprit

Albatros said:


> He could have got more money elsewhere but apparently signed for the experience.



I don't think Kruse's contract is the issue. He knows what he is doing. 
HSV were overpaying mediocre players like Holtby or Lasogga. I hope they get smarter this season.


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## Albatros

Sure to an extent, the management in Hamburg hasn't been anywhere near successful, but Lasogga going to Qatar gives him another big payday that Kruse could have had too had he wanted to.


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## Bon Esprit

Albatros said:


> Sure to an extent, the management in Hamburg hasn't been anywhere near successful, but Lasogga going to Qatar gives him another big payday that Kruse could have had too had he wanted to.



Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against Kruse. I like that guy. He's 31 yo now. He can have a pay day in China or whereever in 2 years.


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## Albatros

Lasogga and his expensive Oedipus complex in turn get the same or more in Qatar tax-free as they did in Hamburg before taxes.


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## Bon Esprit

First HSV remove their famous clock and now Lotto King Karl is no longer allowed to sing their hymn "Hamburg meine Perle". Sad days in Hamburg.


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## Deficient Mode

Yikes Eintracht


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## Bon Esprit

I posted the latest "rumour" regarding Bayern in the transfer thread.

Also it is reported Bayern and BvB are interested in Mandzucic and Philipp might leave Dortmund for WOB
Medienbericht: Bayern kauft Sané und Pepé für insgesamt 165 Millionen Euro


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## Bon Esprit

L'Eqipe reports Diallo goes to PSG for 32m.
Transferticker | Alle News vom Transfermarkt - kicker


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## Pavel Buchnevich

That could clear some funds to sign Haller.


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## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> That could clear some funds to sign Haller.



Haller to Dortmund? IIRC Haller was linked with West Ham.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Haller to Dortmund? IIRC Haller was linked with West Ham.




I think Dortmund needs a big CF. I also don't think Alcacer is a starter level player, and I think Goetze is best used in the position Delaney was used in last season. 

Haller would be an excellent signing for Dortmund, and there aren't many big clubs trying to sign him, so I think we could complete the signing this transfer window.


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## TheMoreYouKnow

Alcacer looked like one of the best forwards in the league for about 2/3 of the season last year. Of course the 1/3 may have cost Dortmund the title, but if they gave up on him now he might be the fastest a player ever went from 'bargain' to 'transfer bust'.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Alcacer looked like one of the best forwards in the league for about 2/3 of the season last year. Of course the 1/3 may have cost Dortmund the title, but if they gave up on him now he might be the fastest a player ever went from 'bargain' to 'transfer bust'.




Who said to give up on him? He was most effective off the bench.


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## TheMoreYouKnow

Do you think he signed a new deal with Dortmund to be a joker off the bench for 4 years?


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## Pavel Buchnevich

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Do you think he signed a new deal with Dortmund to be a joker off the bench for 4 years?




I suspect he wants to start, but Dortmund doesn’t owe him anything. He added nothing aside from goals, which is why he often didn’t start. The team could use a second CF. Which team that has aspirations to win trophies has one striker at the club and that striker can’t hold the ball up or win headers?


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## Eye of Ra

what would be bvb starting lineup right now?

Paco
Sancho - Reus - Brandt
Witsel - Weigl
Schulz - Hummels - Zagadou - Akanji
Bürki


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Eye of Ra said:


> what would be bvb starting lineup right now?
> 
> Paco
> Sancho - Reus - Brandt
> Witsel - Weigl
> Schulz - Hummels - Zagadou - Akanji
> Bürki




Goetze
Brandt - Reus - Brandt
Witsel - Delaney
Schultz - Hummels - Akanji - Piszczek
Buerki


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## Bon Esprit

Haller will go to West Ham ( prob for 40m)

Sky reports Sane to Bayern is off the table.

Lewandowski extended until 2023.


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## Bon Esprit

Borussia Dortmund extended the contract with Puma. it's worth 300m over the next 10 years. Nice extra money.


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## Bon Esprit

I read speculations that Rebic and Trapp also might be on the way out. They already lost Jovic and Haller. Not much left if no very good players come in.


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## Evilo

Speculation? Trapp is back to PSG training for weeks now.


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## Bon Esprit

Evilo said:


> Speculation? Trapp is back to PSG training for weeks now.



Trapp is linked with Porto! PSG has no use of him.


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## Evilo

As of now, they have use of him because they only have Areola. In any case, there's few chance he goes back to Germany right now.


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## Bon Esprit

Evilo said:


> As of now, they have use of him because they only have Areola. In any case, there's few chance he goes back to Germany right now.



The original plan was to buy or loan him (again) from PSG. Anyway, he will not return to Frankfurt. Either he plays for Paris or (maybe) Porto.

My point is that Frankfurt lost 3 of their 4 best players and Rebic may be next. As of now their roster is bad. They finished 7th last year.


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## Albatros

Last year they had a good squad, but even if they get no one that'll still be a solid mid-table team on paper. Of course if Rebic goes too they do need to make acquisitions already because they're running out of forwards.


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## Bon Esprit

They lost their no 1 goalie and sold 31 goals (they scored 59 in total). If I was an Eintracht fan I'd be concerned.

2018–19 Eintracht Frankfurt season - Wikipedia


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## Albatros

What Trapp will do we shall see, maybe he does go to Porto, but Rønnow is a Danish international so it's not the worst of situations even if they don't get a replacement. And in Joveljić they got a promising youngster up front that could well be the next big thing. Kostić they get to keep for a very low price.


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## Bon Esprit

Albatros said:


> What Trapp will do we shall see, maybe he does go to Porto, but Rønnow is a Danish international so it's not the worst of situations even if they don't get a replacement. And in Joveljić they got a promising youngster up front that could well be the next big thing. Kostić they get to keep for a very low price.



According to this report Frankfurt wants to bring back Trapp, Rode and Hinteregger. They also want to do "surprising" tranfers.
Fredi Bobic über Transfer-Pläne von Eintracht Frankfurt: "Jeder kann überrascht sein, wer da noch kommt"


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## Albatros

I'm not sure that Boateng is such a surprise at this point, but he was good last time around.


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## Bon Esprit

Bild reports Uli will step down as president of Bayern in November. If true it's the end of an era.
It will be interesting to see who will succed him. Kahn will succed Kalle. Maybe Lahm?


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## Bon Esprit

Lookman goes to Leipzig. Last year his price would have been 25m, now he goes for 18m. Good transfer, both sides know each other.


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## Bon Esprit

So 2. Bundesliga starts today. Hannover 96 at VfB Stuttgart.

Am I confident for my team this season? No! But many Stuttgart supporters aren't either.

Favourites (according to coaches) are HSV, Stuttgart, Nürnberg, Hannover and Bielefeld. 

I don't think so. as usual one two surprises will happen.


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## Albatros

Beckenbauer allegedly not medically fit to face the stress of being prosecuted for corruption. 

Sommermärchen-Verfahren: Ärzte warnen vor Lebensgefahr - Beckenbauer entgeht offenbar Anklage

I hope he at least has the decency to never appear in public again, how stressful would that be.


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## Bon Esprit

So, Marco Reus is footballer of the year. Good choice.
BVB: Marco Reus ist Deutschlands Fußballer des Jahres 2019

Also it seems Dortmund finally gets rid of Rode (Frankfurt) and Schürrle (Spartak). Kagawa and Philipp haven't found takers yet.
Transferticker | Alle News vom Transfermarkt - kicker


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## Bon Esprit

Rudy is about to go back to Hoffenheim (on loan for 1 year). What a desaster he was at Schalke.
Abflug von Schalke: Rudy vor Ausleihe zu Hoffenheim | Bundesliga - kicker


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## Bon Esprit

Nice win by Dortmund vs. Bayern, Sancho was the man of the match. Still early, but BvB should have a good team this year. And the new players (exc. Schulz) didn't even play.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Nice win by Dortmund vs. Bayern, Sancho was the man of the match. Still early, but BvB should have a good team this year. And the new players (exc. Schulz) didn't even play.




It's mostly a meaningless match as all these Super Cup matches in all countries are. It's not going to get Dortmund any points towards the league standings, but what this match does is send a message to Bayern that last season was not a fluke, and Bayern are going to have to be better than last season if they want to win the league.


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## Albatros

And at the moment they are significantly worse, could be a season with 0 titles coming up.

Schalke are meanwhile struggling to get rid of Tönnies after his bigoted comments, if they do it could be the major restart the club desperately needs. And a few tiers below Chemnitz finally got rid of their captain who turned out to be a Neonazi.


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## Bon Esprit

And not to forget Dortmund's Norbert Dickel and Patrick Owomoyela who did a radio report from the Udinese game. While Nobby insulted italian players Owo imitáted Hitler's voice. We know Nobby is not the brightest candle on the cake I thought Owo was smarter.
Denkpause für Dickel und Owomoyela | Bundesliga - kicker


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Can players be retroactively banned? I don’t know how Kimmich gets away without a suspension for what he did to Sancho in the super cup.


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## Bon Esprit

Trapp comes back to Frankfurt. Less than 10m,
Einigung mit PSG: Kevin Trapp kehrt zur Eintracht zurück


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## Albatros

Tönnies leaves his position at Schalke _for 3 months_, heile Welt.


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## maclean

Albatros said:


> Tönnies leaves his position at Schalke _for 3 months_, heile Welt.




Apparently the club ruled that his comments were "not racist"


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## Bon Esprit

Großkreutz vs Bvb right now. I 've never seen a player being that loyal to his club even after he got kicked out .


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## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> Großkreutz vs Bvb right now. I 've never seen a player being that loyal to his club even after he got kicked out .




I think he was a BVB fan before he was a professional player, and he will be one long after. Based on how he has behaved throughout his career it certainly feels like 'fan first, player second' has always been his approach anyway. Bless his heart.


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## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> I think he was a BVB fan before he was a professional player, and he will be one long after. Based on how he has behaved throughout his career it certainly feels like 'fan first, player second' has always been his approach anyway. Bless his heart.



Of course. He did a lot of silly things.Everybody knows that, he, too.
But man, I've watched a short interview on sky today and I think he has a big BvB addiction problem.


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## Bon Esprit

LOL, 14 yo Moukoko (Dortmund) tears apart U19 competion, scores 6 vs. Whoppertal.
6 Tore von BVB-Wunderkind: Moukoko (14) nimmt auch die U19 auseinander

If they can keep him and he keeps up scoring, he should be good in 3 or 4 years.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> LOL, 14 yo Moukoko (Dortmund) tears apart U19 competion, scores 6 vs. Whoppertal.
> 6 Tore von BVB-Wunderkind: Moukoko (14) nimmt auch die U19 auseinander
> 
> If they can keep him and he keeps up scoring, he should be good in 3 or 4 years.




He’ll be in the first team no later than another two years, if he continues to score goals. You can’t keep him in youth football so long and expect he won’t stagnate. I think he’ll play 1 and a half seasons in the U-19’s. I think he’ll probably start getting some first team minutes at the start of 2021.


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## samabam

So Keller is proposed as the new DFB president. Interesting, although as a Freiburg member I see that with mixed feelings ,don't want him gone


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## Albatros

At least he's not obviously corrupt at this point, the rest we'll see. No high expectations, but then again his predecessors have also set the bar very low. Would have preferred someone from outside the first professional league though.


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## samabam

Well, Keller has some credibility outside of professional mens football, Freiburg has a decent womens team and a pretty well regarded youth academy and is on pretty good terms with the amateur teams in the region. I see it more problematic that Löw is from the area - I don't know whether they are close, but that could be a story ...another DFB president protecting löw instead of holding him accountable


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## Bon Esprit

So Bundesliga starts today. Maybe users here have fun to make predictions.

I'm pretty bad at predictions. I'm simply not able to tell who'll will finish 7th or 12th. IMO the top three will be
1. Dortmund
2. Bayern
3. Leipzig
16. Union
17. Augsburg
18. Paderborn

Most drama this season: Köln and Schalke (as usual)


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## Albatros

I'd be quite surprised if Paderborn and Union are not the bottom two, Leverkusen could take third as thanks to Havertz they arguably have more quality (but less depth) than Leipzig.


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## N o o d l e s

Turned the Bayern-Hertha game on for two minutes and Muller is already screaming. Some things never change.


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## Pensionsraddare

It will be a tough time for Bayern to cope with the losses of Robbery. Not impressed at all.


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## SJSharks72

You guys remember when I drafted Lewa in our draft and people were saying he was washed up?


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## Albatros

Pensionsraddare said:


> It will be a tough time for Bayern to cope with the losses of Robbery. Not impressed at all.




It's not the loss, but the lack of adequate replacement and that should have happened at least a year ago already. They've simply been getting weaker while the opposition has grown stronger. I can see a (temporary) Big Four forming in the Bundesliga not unlike that in the Premier League previously.


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## Pensionsraddare

Albatros said:


> It's not the loss, but the lack of adequate replacement and that should have happened at least a year ago already.




Yeah, and Coutinho won't be that replacement either. He's more of a 10. Look at that bench. Absolute garbage for Bayern-standard.

Lewa fell easy.


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## Bon Esprit

Pensionsraddare said:


> Yeah, and Coutinho won't be that replacement either. He's more of a 10. Look at that bench. Absolute garbage for Bayern-standard.
> 
> Lewa fell easy.



And they are going to buy Mandzucic as well. So Lewa will have two backups.
I remember Hoeneß saying in March: If you only knew we already have for next summer.
All I can see is last minute panic moves.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

I'm going to say for predictions

1. Dortmund
2. Bayern
3. Leverkusen
4. Leipzig
5. Wolfsburg
6. Gladbach
7. Schalke
18. Mainz
19. Union
20. Paderborn


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## Pensionsraddare

Bon Esprit said:


> And they are going to buy Mandzucic as well. So Lewa will have two backups.
> I remember Hoeneß saying in March: If you only knew we already have for next summer.
> All I can see is last minute panic moves.




Mandzukic wasn’t even good enough for Bayern five years ago when he played there lol. What are they doing? They should get rid of Kovac to begin with.


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## Paulie Gualtieri

Pensionsraddare said:


> Mandzukic wasn’t even good enough for Bayern five years ago when he played there lol.




False.


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## PanniniClaus

Hertha deserved no more than a draw but oh what could have been.

I do not see the logic in a penalty being given for the foul by Gruijc on Lewandowski...cannot debate that it is a foul...it was a ridiculous horse collar like throw to the ground.

The ball when the foul is committed is out side the box.....there is no play being made on goal....I can't put it together how that warrants a penalty kick. A yellow card and a free kick from where the ball is perhaps....Love football...love it...will always be baffled by some of the rules.


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## Pensionsraddare

Creed Bratton said:


> False.




Ok, the great oracle has spoken.


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## Bon Esprit

Pensionsraddare said:


> Ok, the great oracle has spoken.




Does it even matter. He's five years older now and not the player he was 5 years ago.
They'll add Coutinho (on loan), (probably) Mandzu and Cuisance (Gladbach).
While Dortmund got better this window, IMO Bayern got worse (Ribeiry, Robben, Hummels). And this is only the Bundesliga competition. Their main opponnents internationally got better, too.


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## mexicohockey

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm going to say for predictions
> 
> 1. Dortmund
> 2. Bayern
> 3. Leverkusen
> 4. Leipzig
> 5. Wolfsburg
> 6. Gladbach
> 7. Schalke
> 18. Mainz
> *19*. Union
> *20*. Paderborn




Interesting. While I also believe that Paderborn will come in last you clearly have two really dark horses in there....


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## Bon Esprit

mexicohockey said:


> Interesting. While I also believe that Paderborn will come in last you clearly have two really dark horses in there....



His dark horses might be Rot-Weiss Essen and Waldhof Mannheim. LOL, yeah, I've seen that, too.


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## TheMoreYouKnow

I guess if you only watch the top 3 teams you don't really need to know there's only 18 teams in the league. 

Anyway, Augsburg's GK is playing like he bet against his own team. Maybe Augsburg will lose 8-1 again.


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## MrFunnyWobbl

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> I guess if you only watch the top 3 teams you don't really need to know there's only 18 teams in the league.
> 
> Anyway, Augsburg's GK is playing like he bet against his own team. Maybe Augsburg will lose 8-1 again.




Koubek! 

BVB's best player


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## MrFunnyWobbl

lol


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## PeteWorrell

Dortmund looking strong again.


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## Bon Esprit

Bon Esprit said:


> Does it even matter. He's five years older now and not the player he was 5 years ago.
> They'll add Coutinho (on loan), (probably) Mandzu and Cuisance (Gladbach).
> While Dortmund got better this window, IMO Bayern got worse (Ribeiry, Robben, Hummels). And this is only the Bundesliga competition. Their main opponnents internationally got better, too.



According to Uli the roster is complete now. So, no Mandzukic.
Hoeneß erklärt Personalplanungen für abgeschlossen - kicker


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## RamboZambo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm going to say for predictions
> 
> 1. Dortmund
> 2. Bayern
> 3. Leverkusen
> 4. Leipzig
> 5. Wolfsburg
> 6. Gladbach
> 7. Schalke
> 18. Mainz
> 19. Union
> 20. Paderborn



As a smartass - 18. Padeborn and 17. Union 16. Mainz


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## SJSharks72

PanniniClaus said:


> Hertha deserved no more than a draw but oh what could have been.
> 
> I do not see the logic in a penalty being given for the foul by Gruijc on Lewandowski...cannot debate that it is a foul...it was a ridiculous horse collar like throw to the ground.
> 
> The ball when the foul is committed is out side the box.....there is no play being made on goal....I can't put it together how that warrants a penalty kick. A yellow card and a free kick from where the ball is perhaps....Love football...love it...will always be baffled by some of the rules.



It’s a penalty because it’s a foul in the box.


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## cgf

I doubt this is Bayern's thinking, but their academy & youth buys in recent years have left them with a lot of kids who will soon be making the jump to the pro level that (for the first time in ages) have Bayern-caliber talent. 

Now not all of them will end up Bayern caliber in their primes and even some who do will need to breakthrough to the senior level elsewhere, but the potential is certainly there...with the likes of Batista-Meier, Dajaku, Davies, Cuisance, Mai, Arp, Früchtl & Malik Tillman...for them to find multiple future starters in that group...especially those first 4.


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## Bon Esprit

Oh look, the single Union supporter shows up. Welcome back, cgf.


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## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> Oh look, *the single* Union supporter shows up. Welcome back, cgf.










Que?


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## Bon Esprit

cgf said:


> Que?



Beat the shit out of those Red Bull freaks!


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## PanniniClaus

SJSharks39 said:


> It’s a penalty because it’s a foul in the box.



Yes...I see that. I don't like it...Punishment does not fit the crime yet again.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> I guess if you only watch the top 3 teams you don't really need to know there's only 18 teams in the league.




Are you telling me that you consistently watch the 17th place team against the 18th place team? Incredibly smug attitude on your part. You must be an expert because you remembered that there are 18 teams in the league, instead of 20.


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## TheMoreYouKnow

Based on Bayerns transfer activities it looks like they accept this as a transitional period where they are OK with competing for the domestic titles but know that in the CL the QF is probably the end of the road.


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## TheMoreYouKnow

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Are you telling me that you consistently watch the 17th place team against the 18th place team? Incredibly smug attitude on your part. You must be an expert because you remembered that there are 18 teams in the league, instead of 20.




Not all people who know theres 18 teams are experts, but all people familiar with the league know theres 18 teams.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

If you want to try to talk down to me because I said something incorrect, have at it. I've posted in this thread for years, and watch close to every team play multiple times during the course of the season. There's no trophy to win for catching a slight error. You probably make them as well, but maybe you feel more powerful for talking down to me because I made an error.


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## John Price




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## cgf

Just eat the L Pavel. Forgetting that the BuLi only has 18 teams, when expanding it to 20 is a (seemingly) annual debate, is a significant enough faux pas to be ribbed for.


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## HajdukSplit

So much for that Union boycott, Leipzig scored like 30 seconds after it ended and they are getting hammered


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## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> If you want to try to talk down to me because I said something incorrect, have at it. I've posted in this thread for years, and watch close to every team play multiple times during the course of the season. There's no trophy to win for catching a slight error. You probably make them as well, but maybe you feel more powerful for talking down to me because I made an error.



Pavel, why don't you just smile? There's no need for an argument. I make the most mistakes here and sometimes I laugh at myself the next day.


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## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Just eat the L Pavel. Forgetting that the BuLi only has 18 teams, when expanding it to 20 is a (seemingly) annual debate, is a significant enough faux pas to be ribbed for.





Bon Esprit said:


> Pavel, why don't you just smile? There's no need for an argument. I make the most mistakes here and sometimes I laugh at myself the next day.




I was incorrect, but I'm not going to stand for this guy trying to shame me because of it. I'm sure he says incorrect stuff, and no one has shamed him. I didn't react adversely to anyone other than the person who tried to talk down to me about it.


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## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I was incorrect, but I'm not going to stand for this guy trying to shame me because of it. I'm sure he says incorrect stuff, and no one has shamed him. I didn't react adversely to anyone other than the person who tried to talk down to me about it.



By the way I didin't pick Essen and Mannheim randomly. Back in the day Essen was a much bigger club than BvB and Dietmar Hopp tried to invest in Waldhof and after they denied he put his money into Hoffenheim.


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## Albatros

Waldhof is not the kind of club that could be saved by an investor, rather it would have killed them. I have a lot of respect for their passion but ultimately they're destined to struggle and maybe there's certain beauty to it.


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## Fro

Gonna try to follow Dusseldorf bc Steffen...what type of team are they? Middle pack? Or bottom?


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## gary69

Albatros said:


> I'd be quite surprised if Paderborn and Union are not the bottom two, Leverkusen could take third as thanks to Havertz they arguably have more quality (but less depth) than Leipzig.




Obviously they won't be able to play all the matches/minutes in BL and Europe, but that front three of Havertz-Volland-Bailey is good to watch. Depends if their 2nd string Alario, Belarabi etc. can provide well enough in the games all of those 3 aren't in.

Against Paderborn, the Leverkusen midfield wasn't great defensively, which left the defense often exposed. They'll need to tighten up against better teams.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Fro said:


> Gonna try to follow Dusseldorf bc Steffen...what type of team are they? Middle pack? Or bottom?



Friedhelm Funkel (their coach) yesterday said last season was a miracle (they came in 10th) and they löst their 2 most productive forwards. 
I expect them between 10th and 16th.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

It would be a minor miracle if Fortuna are still in the BuLi 3 years from now.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Albatros said:


> Waldhof is not the kind of club that could be saved by an investor, rather it would have killed them. I have a lot of respect for their passion but ultimately they're destined to struggle and maybe there's certain beauty to it.




As long as theres a hardcore of support for a club theres always hope. The team thats actually kind of surprising to see back in professional football is Uerdingen as they were never a well supported club even in their glory days, but I guess they did find their oligarch.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Albatros said:


> Waldhof is not the kind of club that could be saved by an investor, rather it would have killed them. I have a lot of respect for their passion but ultimately they're destined to struggle and maybe there's certain beauty to it.



My point was that Hopp was ready to invest in Waldhof years back to bring them back to the Bundesliga. After Mannheim denied he started his Hoffenheim project (team, stadium etc.). Despite being treated not well he still supported Waldhof financially later. Just google Hopp/Waldhof.


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> It would be a minor miracle if Fortuna are still in the BuLi 3 years from now.



Probably. Funkel was the best thing happening to them. And Fortuna almost messed that up last winter. He said Düsseldorf will be his last stop in pro football. After he leaves they have to be very creative.


----------



## Albatros

Bon Esprit said:


> My point was that Hopp was ready to invest in Waldhof years back to bring them back to the Bundesliga. After Mannheim denied he started his Hoffenheim project (team, stadium etc.). Despite being treated not well he still supported Waldhof financially later. Just google Hopp/Waldhof.




Sure, just this kind of partnership never really works if a club is strongly based on grassroots.


----------



## bluesfan94

Roman Fell said:


>




Honestly not that great. Slow header near him. He had plenty of time and there wasn’t much velocity. Should have held it instead of that weird parry that he had time to adjust to because of the other striker.


----------



## Bon Esprit

The Coutinho loan is official now. Let's hope for Bayern they get the Liverpool version of him and not the Barca one.


----------



## YNWA14

Bon Esprit said:


> The Coutinho loan is official now. Let's hope for Bayern they get the Liverpool version of him and not the Barca one.



They'd have been better off with Bale.


----------



## Bon Esprit

YNWA14 said:


> They'd have been better off with Bale.



Maybe. They could have had him. But (klugscheiss) alea iacta est.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Thats a great signing for Bayern. If Coutinho can get his game back into form, Coutinho is as good as Sane. He wouldn't be the first player to struggle at Barcelona or Real Madrid. I think the bigger problem for Bayern is defensively, not offensively.


----------



## Live in the Now

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> If Coutinho can get his game back into form, Coutinho is as good as Sane.




lol no.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

YNWA14 said:


> They'd have been better off with Bale.




Nope 



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Thats a great signing for Bayern. If Coutinho can get his game back into form, Coutinho is as good as Sane. He wouldn't be the first player to struggle at Barcelona or Real Madrid. I think the bigger problem for Bayern is defensively, not offensively.




Double nope


----------



## YNWA14

Bale is a lot of things but worse than Coutinho isn't one of them. He'd also actually fill a need out wide.


----------



## Live in the Now

Coutinho is better because you don't have to worry about him frequently getting injured. Not even close to as consistently good as Sane though.


----------



## cgf




----------



## les Habs

Yes, let's hope Bayern get the Liverpool Coutinho and buy him next Summer.

I agree with @YNWA14 that Bale would have been a better option albeit a better short term option.


----------



## MurrayBannerman

Let's hope Bayern get the Barca version.


----------



## cgf

We've earned that 1st pt today, despite the terribly timed red card that swung the match back to augsburg right as it looked like we might have the momentum to win. 

Gotta hand it to Carsten Jancker, for a 44 year old he did a great job for us off of the bench...even if he looks kinda weird with hair


----------



## HajdukSplit

The bottom half of the BL might be worse this season than last season where you only needed like 26 points to survive


----------



## Bon Esprit

cgf said:


> We've earned that 1st pt today, despite the terribly timed red card that swung the match back to augsburg right as it looked like we might have the momentum to win.
> 
> Gotta hand it to Carsten Jancker, for a 44 year old he did a great job for us off of the bench...even if he looks kinda weird with hair



Congrats to the point. Your first ever in Wesstern major competition. But face it (and you might know it better than me) teams like Augsburg will be your main competition this year.


----------



## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> Congrats to the point. Your first ever in Wesstern major competition. But face it (and you might know it better than me) teams like Augsburg will be your main competition this year.




Oh I'm well aware. If I had any expectations of surviving, I'd be lamenting the lost points...as we had taken charge of the match prior to that late red; having almost equalized a few minutes before finally grabbing our goal, and winning battles in their territory consistently during that period between the equalizer and the red.

But I'm 100% just enjoying this experience in the top flight; in part because I genuinely never thought this would happen without my becoming wealthy enough to bankroll it 

...but also because I've never really cared whether we win or loss. As long as the players leave it all on the pitch & do their best to play positive football, I will sit in front of my screen, thousands of miles away, with my scarf around my neck, singing along with the crowd at 6:30 on a saturday morning...at least when I can't be there in person lol


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I'm going to change my mind and say Bayern wins the league this season. I think we have the better squad, but they have the better manager.

Favre has not shown an ability to win trophies at any of his last four jobs. He's a good manager, but he showed last year that his teams are bad front-runners. He turtles too quickly and reverts to defensive football. He lost us the title in a few of those games late last season where we had late leads, and he immediately turned to defensive football, and lost points because of it. He did the same thing after a good first half in the first leg at Spurs last season in the Round of 16 of the CL. His teams are good when they play from behind. He has a penchant for having his subs work out very well, but some of that seems to be fortune instead of smart tactical decisions.

Yesterday was a good example. Hakimi should've started this game. He brings him on late, but it should've been for Piszczek who was on a yellow, and is getting up there in age. Instead, he takes off Schulz. Piszczek delivers the game winning assist to Hakimi. You have to credit Favre for that, but to what degree? It would be easier to credit the decision if it made initial sense.


----------



## les Habs

Freiburg in 2nd! LOL


----------



## samabam

les Habs said:


> Freiburg in 2nd! LOL




more luck than anything else, but I'll take the points


----------



## HajdukSplit

How were those two handball incidents not penalties? Especially the Perisic one


----------



## Ajacied

Lewandowski is such a constant force. Not sure there's a better striker out there.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> *I'm going to change my mind and say Bayern wins the league this season*. I think we have the better squad, but they have the better manager.
> 
> Favre has not shown an ability to win trophies at any of his last four jobs. He's a good manager, but he showed last year that his teams are bad front-runners. He turtles too quickly and reverts to defensive football. He lost us the title in a few of those games late last season where we had late leads, and he immediately turned to defensive football, and lost points because of it. He did the same thing after a good first half in the first leg at Spurs last season in the Round of 16 of the CL. His teams are good when they play from behind. He has a penchant for having his subs work out very well, but some of that seems to be fortune instead of smart tactical decisions.
> 
> Yesterday was a good example. Hakimi should've started this game. He brings him on late, but it should've been for Piszczek who was on a yellow, and is getting up there in age. Instead, he takes off Schulz. Piszczek delivers the game winning assist to Hakimi. You have to credit Favre for that, but to what
> degree? It would be easier to credit the decision if it made initial sense.




After two games! LOL.
Newbies like Köln or Paderborn use to collect points in the first half of the season and many of them collapse later. Many of the established teams drop points due to the fact they have to intergrate new plaver and have to adjust to a new system.
I wounld't be concerned if I was a Dortmund supporter.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

That Schalke bench today is woeful. How the slightly-mighty have fallen. No wonder they aren't any good when they only have 12 or 13 viable players in their squad.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Ajacied said:


> Lewandowski is such a constant force. Not sure there's a better striker out there.



Well Kane is better than Messi so Kane!


----------



## cgf

Following our 1st point in the top flight; our u19s set a club record with their 13-0 victory today...a win which included a brace from the highly touted (by our youth coaches, not saying he's a NT prospect) Laurenz Dehl and takes us to 2nd in the A-Junioren BuLi Nord/Nordost on GD.


----------



## Bon Esprit

In other news Dortmnd's u18 player Moukoko scored 3 in 8 minutes.


----------



## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> In other news Dortmnd's u18 player Moukoko scored 3 in 8 minutes.




At this point I don't even pay attention to the video game #s he puts up; they're so surreal that you can't even really learn anything from what he's doing at that level other than that "he's special" 

Can't wait to see his game against men once he's old enough to play senior team football.


----------



## Bon Esprit

cgf said:


> At this point I don't even pay attention to the video game #s he puts up; they're so surreal that you can't even really learn anything from what he's doing at that level other than that "he's special"
> 
> Can't wait to see his game against men once he's old enough to play senior team football.



Well, I've watched some yt videos of him. He is pretty good at 14yo, but I haven't seen many breathtaking actions. Yes, we need to wait until he plays against men.


----------



## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> Well, I've watched some yt videos of him. He is pretty good at 14yo, but I haven't seen many breathtaking actions. Yes, we need to wait until he plays against men.




You didn't catch any of their U17 matches last season? He's a constant danger at youth levels.


----------



## YNWA14

cgf said:


> You didn't catch any of their U17 matches last season? He's a constant danger at youth levels.



Yeah every time I've seen him you can tell he's special. He isn't one of those prototypical athletes that are just way more developed than their peers at an early age...he's got an excellent read of the game, seems two footed and has a ton of composure/confidence to go along with his skill. He isn't even that fast really but his movement and timing are impeccable.


----------



## Bon Esprit

cgf said:


> You didn't catch any of their U17 matches last season? He's a constant danger at youth levels.



No, I haven't. I watched something like this:


Of course he is a special player and it's impressive how dominant he is as an underager among 17.18yo.
But be (probably) won't be able to muck around Bundesliga defenders like he does with those poor boys.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

What I can't figure out is how he scores at such a crazy rate. He's probably going to be very good and a top 20-30 striker in the world, as long as he doesn't bust. Most of the prodigy strikers were not scoring at anywhere near the rate that Moukoko was. Some of it is that he plays in a very good academy with a lot of lopsided scores, but it's not like he's the first player to ever play in a very good academy that wins a lot of games by lopsided scores. Moukoko still has found a way to score at nearly double the rate that any of the current top 20-30 strikers in the game did at youth level, and he's done it against higher age groups at a younger age. 

I've briefly seen some of his play, but not a full game. He looks very good, and you can tell that he doesn't dominate because he's bigger and stronger than everyone else, but I still can't figure out why he scores at such a better rate at youth level than every striker to come through the last 15 years. He's not that much more talented than all of them from what I can tell.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

I havent seen that good a 14 year old since Freddy Adu. If hes clever he signs a very lucrative deal *before* playing a full season at senior level. 

In other news, Robin Dutt basically asked to be fired by Bochum in their last post-match presser. Club leadership asks him for a meeting today to clarify things, Dutt doesnt show up. Club gets the message and sacks him. Certainly an attitude that recommends him for future employment....


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> I havent seen that good a 14 year old since Freddy Adu. If hes clever he signs a very lucrative deal *before* playing a full season at senior level.
> 
> In other news, Robin Dutt basically asked to be fired by Bochum in their last post-match presser. Club leadership asks him for a meeting today to clarify things, Dutt doesnt show up. Club gets the message and sacks him. Certainly an attitude that recommends him for future employment....



I read the team took over at halftime and changed its tactics to at least win one point. Robin Dutt is one of those guys who shouldn't be in professional football. He simply doesn't get it done at any position.
Robin Dutt - Wikipedia


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> I read the team took over at halftime and changed its tactics to at least win one point. Robin Dutt is one of those guys who shouldn't be in professional football. He simply doesn't get it done at any position.
> Robin Dutt - Wikipedia




One of those flaky “visionaries” who talk the talk but cant walk the walk.


----------



## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> No, I haven't. I watched something like this:
> 
> 
> Of course he is a special player and it's impressive how dominant he is as an underager among 17.18yo.
> But be (probably) won't be able to muck around Bundesliga defenders like he does with those poor boys.





Ah, gotcha. What really impresses me with him is just what a dangerous presence he was throughout the full matches I've watched -- always buzzing around dangerous areas, drawing the defense's focus onto himself -- and a highlight video can never really capture that. Even ignoring his age, I have never seen someone like this absolutely tear through the A- or B-junioren level the way he has, thus far.

But I fully agree with your final point, it's why I can't wait to see how his game translates to the senior level.


----------



## YNWA14

Well I mean if you look at the evolution of the modern game you can maybe make a connection as to why he's so much more prolific than a lot of those guys at the same age. Football has always been a game of space and intelligence, obviously, but previously athleticism and skill gaps were so large that they played a large part in the best players in the world, scoring goals, etc. (they still do, but to a much smaller extent IMO). As the athletic and skill gap decrease toward parity (with exceptions), tactics evolve and coaches become more and more important. This means that the use of space, reading of the game and mental attributes become more and more important. Something that Moukoko possesses in spades, especially for youth levels, is his instinctual movement, reading of the game and composure to go along with an abundance of skill and athleticism. At such a young age it's really incredible to have those elements be so robust. When Cristiano reinvented himself and started scoring at ridiculous rates it wasn't because he suddenly became more skillful than everyone else; he used the things I mentioned about Moukoko above on a different level than most players and supplemented his already tremendous skill and athleticism. Joao Felix is another player that really embodies the future of elite talents where he just reads the game so well, he moves so well off the ball, has an incredible first touch and great composure for his age.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

He doesn't look that good by the highlights video hahaha
Bojan scored a tremendous amount of goals and he didn't end up being more than a fringe starting striker in the PL. 
I would expect much better from this kid though, must have a super soccer IQ


----------



## cgf

Vasilevskiy said:


> He doesn't look that good by the highlights video hahaha
> Bojan scored a tremendous amount of goals and he didn't end up being more than a fringe starting striker in the PL.
> I would expect much better from this kid though, must have a super soccer IQ




It's not just the unprecedented totals he's putting up, regardless of age, it's the way he's putting them up. I've never seen anyone at these levels be the ever-present threat he is, despite playing up multiple age groups...always putting himself & pushing his side, into dangerous positions with the ball.


----------



## Bon Esprit

From what I have seen Moukoko is very promising. He still is a diamond in the rough. His technique still needs a lot of work, his defensive play is not existent. Dortmund coaches have a lot of work to do. I wish the best for him and he has time to develop.
But I'm really shocked how bad young defenders seem to be these days (based on the vids I've seen). When I was young our defenders were better (and I was nowhere near Bundesliga level).


----------



## YNWA14

Bon Esprit said:


> From what I have seen Moukoko is very promising. He still is a diamond in the rough. His technique still needs a lot of work, his defensive play is not existent. Dortmund coaches have a lot of work to do. I wish the best for him and he has time to develop.
> *But I'm really shocked how bad young defenders seem to be these days (based on the vids I've seen). When I was young our defenders were better (and I was nowhere near Bundesliga level)*.



This is almost certainly not true.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

cgf said:


> It's not just the unprecedented totals he's putting up, regardless of age, it's the way he's putting them up. I've never seen anyone at these levels be the ever-present threat he is, despite playing up multiple age groups...always putting himself & pushing his side, into dangerous positions with the ball.




Theres no regardless of age here, I looked like Maradona playing vs 8 year olds as a 12 year old.


----------



## Bon Esprit

YNWA14 said:


> This is almost certainly not true.



Good defenders can stop almost every action of Moukoko. AT least in the first half of the video. The 4 red defenders right at the start of the vid are a joke.


----------



## cgf

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Theres no regardless of age here, I looked like Maradona playing vs 8 year olds as a 12 year old.




...but that's the inverse. Moukoko is the 8 year-old looking like maradona against 12-year-olds.


----------



## gary69

cgf said:


> It's not just the unprecedented totals he's putting up, regardless of age, *it's the way he's putting them up. *I've never seen anyone at these levels be the ever-present threat he is, despite playing up multiple age groups...always putting himself & pushing his side, into dangerous positions with the ball.




Nonody knows how that translates to men's game though, where tactics and defenders are so much better. Take Romelo Lukaku for example. He scored about 250 goals in 150 official youth games for Lierse and Anderlecht before moving to play with adults permanently at the age of 16. While he obviously has had a good career, even if he the most of the tools needed to be great, just missing that one attribute might prevent a player becoming a really great one. And while Lukaku's size had a lot to do with his youth goal amounts, it's always a tough balance to decide whether trying to change a player to a more all rounded or whether to let him concentrate even more onto his strengths. 

Since nobody knows which kind of team, tactics and teammates a player ends up for most of his career, it might be tempting to mould a young player into a more well rounded one. Which might not end up serving the player best individually in the long run, even if most safety first managers and clubs might prefer such a player.


----------



## cgf

gary69 said:


> Nonody knows how that translates to men's game though, where tactics and defenders are so much better. Take Romelo Lukaku for example. He scored about 250 goals in 150 official youth games for Lierse and Anderlecht before moving to play with adults permanently at the age of 16. While he obviously has had a good career, even if he the most of the tools needed to be great, just missing that one attribute might prevent a player becoming a really great one. And while Lukaku's size had a lot to do with his youth goal amounts, it's always a tough balance to decide whether trying to change a player to a more all rounded or whether to let him concentrate even more onto his strengths.
> 
> Since nobody knows which kind of team, tactics and teammates a player ends up for most of his career, it might be tempting to mould a young player into a more well rounded one. Which might not end up serving the player best individually in the long run, even if most safety first managers and clubs might prefer such a player.




Oh no doubt. It's why I keep repeating how I can't wait to see his game at the senior level and started this discussion by saying that I don't even know what to make of his dominance at this level until we see what he's able to do against men.

That said...I think Lukaku isn't the best example because he's exactly the kind of physically super-developed kids that I am generally more skeptical of unless their tools project to be unique even at the top level. But there have been other kids to put up huge numbers with skill & creativity (even if not to the same extent as Moukoko), who also failed; so the exact example doesn't really matter to your point and I'm just indulging my inner-pedant 


I'm just incredibly curious to find out how this dominance translates...because we've never seen something even in the same stratosphere in germany. We've never seen an ever-present threat/source-of-danger, despite playing multiple age groups up, even close to this degree...and I can't wait to find out how it plays out in the long run, either way.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

cgf said:


> ...but that's the inverse. Moukoko is the 8 year-old looking like maradona against 12-year-olds.




Yeah, sure, that's the story here. Let me just throw this out, the man had an 18 year old girlfriend when he was said to be 12 years old according to his 'papers'.


----------



## YNWA14

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Yeah, sure, that's the story here. Let me just throw this out, the man had an 18 year old girlfriend when he was said to be 12 years old according to his 'papers'.



What a compelling argument. Please, tell us more.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Lukaku was also said to be much older than he is. Shouldn't he be retiring around now if he's actually five years older?

Those who cheat with this tactic usually are not that good to begin with, and it's usually systemic. It usually comes from the federation of a certain country, not an individual player who has been able to cheat the system. It's usually not a player who scores at incredible rates in a good youth set-up for a sustained period of time. If for some reason Moukoko was 4 or 5 years older, he'd still be very good, considering he's playing with players 2 and 3 years older than him right now and is dominating.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Most guys on the U19 teams this season are born 2001/2002, he is said to have been born in 2004. If hes just 2 years older than said hed be playing against kids around his own age. Add another year or two and hed be playing against younger kids.

The reality is that in a large number of countries there is no reliable registration or documentation system in place for personal data. When documents need to be issued, the basis for what is put in those documents is often not verifiable. 

Then consider that in immigration/asylum matters younger generally is better (as minors generally enjoy certain protections not granted to adults), so there is an incentive to err on the young side. That there is a black market for papers showing the desired information is no secret either. 

At the end of the day, I dont care *that* much, we’ll see soon enough how he will play as a senior player. Nobody knew how old Kanu really was and he did a good job even when he was probably about 40 year old.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I’m merely saying that he wouldn’t be scoring six goals in a game if he was bad and his only advantage is that he’s a year or two older than these players.

The numbers he puts up would be impressive, unless we found out he was 25-30. If you send Arp or Joveljic or Sargent or Cunha down to the U19’s for four games, they aren’t scoring 9 goals in 4 games to start the season, like Moukoko has. And let’s say they did, they are good players, so being 4 or 5 years older wouldn’t make Moukoko a bad player incapable of being a good striker in the pro game. Until there’s real evidence that he’s older than he says, it’s baseless speculation that suits no one.


----------



## Maverick41

A Schalke fan has filed a complaint against the referee and video referee vs. Bayern for fraud.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I’m merely saying that he wouldn’t be scoring six goals in a game if he was bad and his only advantage is that he’s a year or two older than these players.
> 
> The numbers he puts up would be impressive, unless we found out he was 25-30. If you send Arp or Joveljic or Sargent or Cunha down to the U19’s for four games, they aren’t scoring 9 goals in 4 games to start the season, like Moukoko has. And let’s say they did, they are good players, so being 4 or 5 years older wouldn’t make Moukoko a bad player incapable of being a good striker in the pro game. Until there’s real evidence that he’s older than he says, it’s baseless speculation* that suits no one.*




It suits people with a certain agenda...


----------



## Bon Esprit

Maverick41 said:


> A Schalke fan has filed a complaint against the referee and video referee vs. Bayern for fraud.




LOL 

The daughter of their coach (name escapse me since they change them so often) also complained.
Tochter von David Wagner attackiert Video-Schiri - Schalke-Trainer reagiert grandios


----------



## Bon Esprit

cgf said:


> It suits people with a certain agenda...



It's the same with Jatta from HSV. If it is relavant immigratiom authorities should take care. Otherwise it's baseless. IIRC Bochum and another team challenge their lost games.
Anthony Yeboah was 4 or 5 years older than stated IIRC.


----------



## Live in the Now

It was actually that Yeboah was two years younger than stated. He had his age changed because he couldn't play pro football in Ghana at age 17.

As for Moukoko, if there is any age changing, it doesn't benefit him to be younger. He can't play pro football at his age. If he was older he'd already be a pro, so I don't believe that shit at all. He also has a German birth certificate. His age was most definitely not changed.


----------



## gary69

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> *Lukaku was also said to be much older than he is. *Shouldn't he be retiring around now if he's actually five years older?
> 
> Those who cheat with this tactic usually are not that good to begin with, and it's usually systemic. It usually comes from the federation of a certain country, not an individual player who has been able to cheat the system. It's usually not a player who scores at incredible rates in a good youth set-up for a sustained period of time. If for some reason Moukoko was 4 or 5 years older, he'd still be very good, considering he's playing with players 2 and 3 years older than him right now and is dominating.




I don't remember seeing that in any credible sources. He wasn't born abroad and his father was somewhat well-know pro player (Kenya international) playing in Belgium, and the births & lives of his children were documented from young age. It's not like Romelo was born at home instead of a Belgian hospital and kept hidden at home for the first years of his lives.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

gary69 said:


> I don't remember seeing that in any credible sources. He wasn't born abroad and his father was somewhat well-know pro player (Kenya international) playing in Belgium, and the births & lives of his children were documented from young age. It's not like Romelo was born at home instead of a Belgian hospital and kept hidden at home for the first years of his lives.




I'm talking about the internet complainers. He was bigger than everyone else, much better than everyone else and in general the guy has physically always looked older than he is. 

I don't think there was ever any substance behind the claims for the reasons you state. I don't think there's much substance behind the claims about Moukoko either.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Live in the Now said:


> He also has a German birth certificate. His age was most definitely not changed.




This is actually the one semi-valid point of debate here. He was born in Cameroon, and his birth was registered with the German consulate in Cameroon. Some say that its unreliable because the record system in the African countries isn't as good, but I don't tend to buy this reasoning, considering I don't think the German consulate in Cameroon is inept.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

He received a German birth certificate in _2016. _What exactly do you think they used to verify the information? They just took the Cameroonian paperwork and accepted it. They didn't have a magic wand to figure out his real age, so barring any contrary info they accepted what was there. But this is also a country where it is known that multitudes of adults claimed to be juveniles and authorities took them at their word. So yes maybe "inept" is actually a decent word to describe the authorities' ability to figure out the real age of people from countries in Africa and the Middle East.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Young player doing well must be cheating... too much pigmentation.


----------



## bluesfan94

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> He received a German birth certificate in _2016. _What exactly do you think they used to verify the information? They just took the Cameroonian paperwork and accepted it. They didn't have a magic wand to figure out his real age, so barring any contrary info they accepted what was there. But this is also a country where it is known that multitudes of adults claimed to be juveniles and authorities took them at their word. So yes maybe "inept" is actually a decent word to describe the authorities' ability to figure out the real age of people from countries in Africa and the Middle East.



If he really were >16, don't you think he'd come out with it now so he could be making a paycheck playing football? Plus, that's not what happened. His birth certificate was authenticated in 2016. His father said that he registered Moukoko at the German embassy at birth. Pretty decent chance there were records of that and that's what Germany used to confirm. But I know, the more information you get, the more you'll twist it into fitting your grand conspiracy, so what's the point


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

I know next to nothing about this player only from what I've read the last couple of pages but how does he benefit from lying about his age? He's not a mid 20 yr old lying to play in the u20s. We're assuming he's lying about being 14 that is playing in the u19s. How is that benefiting him in anyway?


----------



## YNWA14

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I know next to nothing about this player only from what I've read the last couple of pages but how does he benefit from lying about his age? He's not a mid 20 yr old lying to play in the u20s. We're assuming he's lying about being 14 that is playing in the u19s. How is that benefiting him in anyway?



Hype and youth records >>>>>>>>>


----------



## Bon Esprit

LOL, Peter Neururer 

„Lügen-Konstrukt“: Peter Neururer rechnet mit Wattenscheid 09 ab - WELT

Wasn't he the guy who said: If it was about professional expertise I should be coach of Real Madrid.

For the not german speaking:

Former Bundesliga coach Neururer got a call from former Schalke president Schnusenberg who asked to help him out. Neururer didn't realize Schnusenberg wasn't with Schalke anyymore but with 4th league club Wattenscheid 09. He thought he was asked to replace Tedesco to coach Schalke. Instead he became sportdirector of near bancrupt Wattenscheid.


----------



## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> It's the same with Jatta from HSV. If it is relavant immigratiom authorities should take care. Otherwise it's baseless. IIRC Bochum and another team challenge their lost games.
> Anthony Yeboah was 4 or 5 years older than stated IIRC.




Pretty much. It certainly happens, like it just did in the NBA with Buddy Hield; who had been listed 1 year younger in error and everyone thought he was joking when he would tell team officials that he's actually a year older...but until there's hard evidence/a good reason to consider it, it's irrelevant to all but the most melanin-level obsessed observers.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Hey if you guys want to be fooled then thats really only your problem. I dont care all that much, I also dont have a grand conspiracy theory here, Im just saying what loads of people around German football think. But hey what do I know, Freddy Adu was the next Pele, right?

Anyway the Neururer story is pretty hilarious.


----------



## Bon Esprit

This entire part of the thread started with moukoko. And I couldn't care less if he is 14 or older. He will face real competition soon enough. And then we will see if he can fool Bundesliga defenders like those u19 boys, I hope he is the real deal.
Jatta is a complete different case. If he cheated with his age asylum/immigration authorites should take care of him. Nürnberg claims to have evidence. Let's see what happens.
Erneut Wirbel um HSV-Profi Jatta - Bericht: 1. FC Nürnberg benennt Kronzeugen aus dem Senegal


----------



## YNWA14

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Hey if you guys want to be fooled then thats really only your problem. I dont care all that much, I also dont have a grand conspiracy theory here, Im just saying what loads of people around German football think. But hey what do I know, Freddy Adu was the next Pele, right?
> 
> Anyway the Neururer story is pretty hilarious.



So if Moukoko turns out to be the age he is saying does that make you the fool, and wanting to be fooled into believing something that isn't true?


----------



## Albatros

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I know next to nothing about this player only from what I've read the last couple of pages but how does he benefit from lying about his age? He's not a mid 20 yr old lying to play in the u20s. We're assuming he's lying about being 14 that is playing in the u19s. How is that benefiting him in anyway?




His father is 68 and according to him the mother is now 30 years old, so Moukoko being 14 means that his mother was 16 when she got the baby. If Moukoko is several years older than that, well, you understand why it may be relevant for reasons not connected to football.

This obviously does not mean that there would be any truth to the allegations, but there are possible motives.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Albatros said:


> His father is 68 and according to him the mother is now 30 years old, so Moukoko being 14 means that his mother was 16 when she got the baby. If Moukoko is several years older than that, well, you understand why it may be relevant for reasons not connected to football.
> 
> This obviously does not mean that there would be any truth to the allegations, but there are possible motives.




This still doesn't make sense as to why he would claim he was younger, so thanks for providing nothing i guess.


----------



## Albatros

If he is older conversely his mother would have been below the age of consent which could have had legal consequences for his father. But again, there is also no reason why everything could not be just as it was presented.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Albatros said:


> If he is older conversely his mother would have been below the age of consent which could have had legal consequences for his father. But again, there is also no reason why everything could not be just as it was presented.



That aint it chief.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

YNWA14 said:


> So if Moukoko turns out to be the age he is saying does that make you the fool, and wanting to be fooled into believing something that isn't true?




Its doubtful his true age will ever be determined as that would likely require a time machine. At the end of the day this isnt a hugely important matter for me as I am not involved in a business that’s throwing money at this chap, but if I was Id be inclined to follow the eye test and common sense rather than dubious documentation.

And just for the record - If you cant see how making yourself younger can be beneficial you should probably not discuss this subject. (Hint: Look at your CV, take all accomplishments on it and then envision them on the CV of someone 10 years younger. And think about how that affects perceived value.)


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Its doubtful his true age will ever be determined as that would likely require a time machine. At the end of the day this isnt a hugely important matter for me as I am not involved in a business that’s throwing money at this chap, but if I was Id be inclined to follow the eye test and common sense rather than dubious documentation.
> 
> *And just for the record - If you cant see how making yourself younger can be beneficial you should probably not discuss this subject.*




Or you know you can enlighten us, after isnt that why we're all here?


----------



## YNWA14

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Its doubtful his true age will ever be determined as that would likely require a time machine. At the end of the day this isnt a hugely important matter for me as I am not involved in a business that’s throwing money at this chap, but if I was *Id be inclined to follow the eye test and common sense rather than dubious documentation*.



Because there is nothing dubious about using an 'eye test' or 'common sense', for sure.


----------



## Albatros

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> That aint it chief.




Hard to say, regardless of cultural context I find such extreme age differences dubious. None of that is Moukoko's personal fault anyway whatever the truth.


----------



## cgf

YNWA14 said:


> Because there is nothing dubious about using an 'eye test' or 'common sense', for sure.




The eye test only ever fails if you are color blind...


Albatros said:


> If he is older conversely his mother would have been below the age of consent which could have had legal consequences for his father. But again, there is also no reason why everything could not be just as it was presented.




If only they were good native-born germans, then Moukoko would only need to pretend to be 16...


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Or you know you can enlighten us, after isnt that why we're all here?




Evaluations are about future potential. Moukoko doesnt have a sizable Nike deal because hes a great youth player. Youth football itself isnt worth jack, youth players are only highly desirable because of what we project about their future performance at the senior level. How we look at youth players then strongly depends on their performance relative to their competition. An 18 year old blowing through U19 is a great prospect, a 14 year old doing the same is at an entirely different level. The same way the 1st and 2nd year of junior are treated very differently by scouts for NHL draft evaluations. You are expected to do more at 17 than at 16 and so forth.
The degree to which you exceed expectations will have a major impact on your evaluation.

How much money did Freddy Adu make before ever playing a game in senior football? He made that money because of his “wunderkind” status and if it hadnt been for that he would just be one of many prospects who never lived up to their promise. It can be immensely profitable to be the “next big thing” before the chips have to be put on the table.


----------



## cgf

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Evaluations are about future potential. Moukoko doesnt have a sizable Nike deal because hes a great youth player. Youth football itself isnt worth jack, youth players are only highly desirable because of what we project about their future performance at the senior level. How we look at youth players then strongly depends on their performance relative to their competition. An 18 year old blowing through U19 is a great prospect, a 14 year old doing the same is at an entirely different level. The same way the 1st and 2nd year of junior are treated very differently by scouts for NHL draft evaluations. You are expected to do more at 17 than at 16 and so forth.
> The degree to which you exceed expectations will have a major impact on your evaluation.
> 
> How much money did Freddy Adu make before ever playing a game in senior football? He made that money because of his “wunderkind” status and if it hadnt been for that he would just be one of many prospects who never lived up to their promise. It can be immensely profitable to be the “next big thing” before the chips have to be put on the table.




Even if Moukoko was the same age as his opponents his level of dominance would be unprecedented and he'd be "at an entirely different level", so beyond your desire to denigrate the achievements of anyone with more than a deep tan, why does this matter at all? Especially when it's not like he's dominating because he's more physically developed than his opponents, like the probable age-cheat, Fiete Arp did...as Moukoko is blatantly not as developed as some of the white kids he's making fools of, whether he's lying about his age or not, and he's embarrassing them with intelligence & skill, rather than those non-existent developmental advantages. 

Which is clear to anyone using the "eye test"...even if they lack common sense...


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

cgf said:


> Even if Moukoko was the same age as his opponents his level of dominance would be unprecedented and he'd be "at an entirely different level", so beyond your desire to denigrate the achievements of anyone with more than a deep tan, why does this matter at all? Especially when it's not like he's dominating because he's more physically developed than his opponents, like the probable age-cheat, Fiete Arp did...as Moukoko is blatantly not as developed as some of the white kids he's making fools of, whether he's lying about his age or not, and he's embarrassing them with intelligence & skill, rather than those non-existent developmental advantages.
> 
> Which is clear to anyone using the "eye test"...even if they lack common sense...




No point in discussing this with race baiters.


----------



## YNWA14

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> No point in discussing this with race baiters.



I haven't race baited once, but I am curious as to what argument you've actually put forward that should convince anyone that Moukoko is older than is reported. He has a birth registration at the German consulate (not a recent Birth Certificate), he doesn't look older than his age group as pictured multiple times, he doesn't dominate by being physically advanced and supposedly his age has been verified by the club. So either you just don't want to believe he's a certain age or you have some information that a lot of others do not.


----------



## Live in the Now

Moukoko's dad is a pedo first of all. His mom was 15 when he was conceived and he's an old man.

That's another reason his age is not even in question for me. How much earlier would he have been conceived? He looks like a kid. You can tell who didn't spend time around black kids growing up if you think he doesn't look like a kid. I had a friend who started growing a full beard when they had barely turned 14.

Example:



Look, at some point people have to accept that not all kids look alike.


----------



## cgf

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> No point in discussing this with *race baiters.*




People in glass houses & what not...


----------



## Cassano

who is even surprised by the 2 instigators in this thread who have a history of posts similar to this.


----------



## John Price




----------



## Bon Esprit

Canada boy Davies scores for Bayern.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Roman Fell said:


>




Tom Dooley had 199 apps.
Tom Dooley - Spielerprofil

Eric Wynalda also once played for Bayern I guess. Too lazy too look that up.


----------



## Lambo

Bon Esprit said:


> Tom Dooley had 199 apps.
> Tom Dooley - Spielerprofil
> 
> Eric Wynalda also once played for Bayern I guess. Too lazy too look that up.



Tom Dooley and Eric Wynalda? Long long time ago i ve read this names. The good old times. Retro!


----------



## Bon Esprit

Lambo said:


> Tom Dooley and Eric Wynalda? Long long time ago i ve read this names. The good old times. Retro!



I don't know if the times were good, they were different


----------



## Deficient Mode

Love love love to watch Julian Brandt in a BVB jersey.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Union Berlin!


----------



## Bon Esprit

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Union Berlin!



lol, thats cgfs job. He will do crazy things, if they win.


----------



## Cassano

Yesss Berlin!!


----------



## Deficient Mode

Really poorly played game from Dortmund. Terrible lapses from the back line. No coordination in attack. Games like this when one has to really question if Favre is the manager who can keep Dortmund focused every game in a title race.

Grats @cgf


----------



## RamboZambo

BVB defense is "swiss cheese"! I m looking very worried to CL vs Barca(Messi, Griezmann, Suarez) and Inter(Lukaku, Sanchez).


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

RamboZambo said:


> BVB defense is "swiss cheese"! I m looking very worried to CL vs Barca(Messi, Griezmann, Suarez) and Inter(Lukaku, Sanchez).



I lold


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Piszczek is done.


----------



## cgf

Not really much lame teams like BVB can do about being outclassed by superior (and much cooler) clubs like they were today 


...I still not sure I believe that actually happened


----------



## Lambo

Bon Esprit said:


> I don't know if the times were good, they were different



Anybody could beat anybody. Even Bayern could not be sure to win. Very tight title races.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Union helping turn this into a Bayern/RB Leipzig title race is kinda funny. I think it's becoming clear that Dortmund is unlikely to win anything with Favre.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Lambo said:


> Anybody could beat anybody. Even Bayern could not be sure to win. Very tight title races.



True. And Bayern send the points to Kaiserslautern, because they lost there on a regular basis. Anyway, veterans like to talk about war, my grandpa said. Those times won't come back.


----------



## Albatros

Away games in Kaiserslautern used to be like war, not just on the pitch but also off it.


----------



## Bon Esprit

So Frankfurt lost Rebic, too. Good luck with that. Jovic, Haller and Rebic. A lot of quality players left.


----------



## SJSharks72

Bon Esprit said:


> So Frankfurt lost Rebic, too. Good luck with that. Jovic, Haller and Rebic. A lot of quality players left.



They didn’t replace any of them either right?


----------



## Live in the Now

SJSharks39 said:


> They didn’t replace any of them either right?




No, they signed replacements. One was Bas Dost. The other was Joveljic, who could be an excellent player, but it's probably too soon. Kamada also came back from loan after a great season in Belgium, and Andre Silva was brought in with the Rebic deal. 

They signed some other players too, they won't replace what they lost immediately, but should do well in the long run.


----------



## Albatros

Joveljić does seem very raw but Dost can contribute big time immediately, in terms of goal scoring ability he's not a downgrade.


----------



## Bon Esprit

In the mid-nintees Eintracht learned what is means to loose key players. They lost Bein, Yeboah, Okocha within 2or 3 years. A bit later Gaudino. 96 tthey got relegated.


----------



## S E P H

cgf said:


> Not really much lame teams like BVB can do about being outclassed by superior (and much cooler) clubs like they were today
> 
> 
> ...I still not sure I believe that actually happened



Well you lot beating a perennial feeder club isn't really that shocking of a win.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> Really poorly played game from Dortmund. Terrible lapses from the back line. No coordination in attack. Games like this when one has to really question if Favre is the manager who can keep Dortmund focused every game in a title race.
> 
> Grats @cgf




This is what I was talking about last week. @Bon Esprit laughed it off. Favre’s teams often look clueless in games that should be over at halftime. This happens way too often. We got lucky last week, but you have to play 90 minutes consistently if you want to win the league. 

The back line is a calamity right now, as is the midfield. I also don’t care how many tap ins Alcacer scores. We often play poorly when he plays from the start. Goetze has played 23 minutes in all competitions to start the season. They think they are going to bench him until he takes less money. Absolutely pathetic that they’d try to use this tactic.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

S E P H said:


> Well you lot beating a perennial feeder club isn't really that shocking of a win.




That’s rich coming from an Arsenal fan.


----------



## S E P H

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> That’s rich coming from an Arsenal fan.



Arsenal isn't a feeder team (we're just bad) until our best players are poached by better clubs (such as Lacazette). Sanchez going from Arsenal to United is not the definition of a feeder considering where United has been the last six years (aka nowhere). If there was one feeder moment it was RvP to United and I put more blame on Wenger's senility than 

I feel for you lot though, Brandt will be the next part of the cycle who eventually joins Bayern when Munich unsettles him.


----------



## Bon Esprit

I didn't laugh it off, Pavel. But you gave up after two games. 
Your team has to learn that it takes 34 games to win something. It takes hard, hard work, not just talent. BvB's defence was so bad while Union did the right moves. This happens. I still think BvB can win the league, but it will be tough.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> The back line is a calamity right now, as is the midfield. I also don’t care how many tap ins Alcacer scores. We often play poorly when he plays from the start. Goetze has played 23 minutes in all competitions to start the season. They think they are going to bench him until he takes less money. Absolutely pathetic that they’d try to use this tactic.




I didn't really think of this but yeah I wouldn't put it past them. They've been too willing to sacrifice competitiveness to save/make money n the past. They definitely rely on individual quality of their players and the intelligence and particular qualities of Götze can't be easily replaced by anyone else on the team. I really don't think Favre provides either the motivation or the lasting tactical infrastructure to crack open teams that cede them possession on these days when the team is sluggish.

The personnel this year is probably as good and deep as it has ever been. The standard should certainly be higher than another 2nd/3rd place finish and QF/R16 in the CL this year if the coach and the team really click.



S E P H said:


> I feel for you lot though, Brandt will be the next part of the cycle who eventually joins Bayern when Munich unsettles him.




A relief that you project that Sancho at least will be a long-term fixture in Dortmund if not Brandt.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

S E P H said:


> I feel for you lot though, Brandt will be the next part of the cycle who eventually joins Bayern when Munich unsettles him.




Who has Bayern signed recently that's so great? Their most recent transfer window was a big PR disaster. 

They signed none of their targets, and they lost a starter to their biggest rival for the title, that team you call a feeder team. Bayern was also unable to sign the most recent player we sold on for big money. 

Unless Brandt insists on leaving and insists on being transferred within the league, I don't see why he'd go to Bayern. Let's see if Bayern can pull off some big transfers next summer with Havertz, Sane, Nubel and Werner. They tried for all four players this summer, but none left. They look more like a club on the decline than one on the ascendancy.


----------



## Deficient Mode

This was a pretty dumb and pointless transfer last year. Glad he's gone though.


----------



## cgf

S E P H said:


> Well you lot beating a *perennial feeder club* isn't really that shocking of a win.




Hopefully one day you guys can rise to that level!


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> This was a pretty dumb and pointless transfer last year. Glad he's gone though.





He's better than JBL, who should've been the one to leave on loan, but neither is good enough to play for BVB. With Morey brought in at RB and Guerreiro looking likely to stay with a new contract, he'd be relegated down the depth chart at RB and winger.


----------



## robertmac43

Just saw Sargent's goal from today, absolutely amazing control.


----------



## Albatros

Bon Esprit said:


> In the mid-nintees Eintracht learned what is means to loose key players. They lost Bein, Yeboah, Okocha within 2or 3 years. A bit later Gaudino. 96 tthey got relegated.




Bein was gone without adequate replacement and the other three didn't get along with the new coach Heynckes, started an open revolt against him and were less than surprisingly suspended. The other two were then quickly ousted but Okocha could stay until the relegation. Gaudino was in major legal trouble at the time which may have played a role in the events too.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Bon Esprit said:


> In the mid-nintees Eintracht learned what is means to loose key players. They lost Bein/QUOTE]
> We all lost bein this season


----------



## Bon Esprit

The Jatta case is closed. No further investigations. Good for him and HSV.
Apparently Harnik goes from Bremen to HSV
Patrick Schick to Leipzig
Marius Wolf to Hertha

all on loan.

Boateng to Juve unlikely.


----------



## Bon Esprit

I'm not a fan of Bild, but they have a live ticker for today's deadline.

Transferschluss Bundesliga: Alle Wechsel und Gerüchte im Ticker

kicker and transfermarkt are very slow IMO.

To be fair I post the transfermarkt ticker, too. I never knew they had one.

Die neuesten Transfers


----------



## Bon Esprit

You are old when you don't understand why Thomas Müller makes 15m euros a year.

https://www.vermoegenmagazin.de/bayern-muenchen-gehaelter/
Reus makes 12m euros, Hummels ten.
Diashow - Die Gehaltsrangliste von Borussia Dortmund


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Reus has been terrible early on this season. He needs to improve his form for club and country, otherwise he should be dropped from the lineup by both.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

VAR misses a handball on Tah. The ball was going in the net. We are dominating this game, yet only up 1-0. It should be 3 or 4 by now. If Leverkusen comes back to get a result, this will be one of those games which is why Bayern wins league titles and we don't.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Dominating performance today from us. It could’ve been 5 or 6. Bosz once again found out against a team that can match his teams for talent.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Reus has been terrible early on this season. He needs to improve his form for club and country, otherwise he should be dropped from the lineup by both.



Your captain just scored twice vs. not too shabby Leverkusen. 3 in 4 games this season. Yes, he's terrible. Facepalm.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Your captain just scored twice vs. not too shabby Leverkusen. 3 in 4 games this season. Yes, he's terrible. Facepalm.




I'm not sure I understand your point. Why should it matter that he's the captain? If he plays bad football for a month, should he be immune from being dropped? I don't think any player, except someone like Messi, should be immune from being dropped, especially not in a deep squad with enough good players to win games. It would be understandable if Reus was the lone star in the team, and the team needed him to play well for us to win games. Not the case at Dortmund. But yes, he was a lot better today. It's good to see. It still doesn't mean he didn't have a very ineffective start to the season for club and country.


----------



## cgf

I'm kinda surprised that we still haven't seen a Reus-Hazard front two between Brandt & Sancho, but I'm thrilled that you tore apart Leverkusen's lacking midfield.

Nice to see the cooler Borussia winning their derby & Nagelsmann getting a point off of Bayern...even if I would have prefered to see him win...and there are worse teams for us to have given points to than an injury-ravaged Werder.

All in all, pretty good results today despite Union not wanting to be greedy...


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Maybe Union and Hertha both go down. Wouldn't shock me at this point.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Oh look, Freiburg did it again.3rd after 4!


----------



## cgf

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Maybe Union and Hertha both go down. Wouldn't shock me at this point.




Not if Paderborn has anything to say about it!


----------



## Bon Esprit

Rudi Gutendorf passed away last weekend. He coached more than 50 teams in his career. He really was a special person.
Rudi Gutendorf - Wikipedia


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Hummels surely will be recalled from international retirement to the German National Team with the way he’s playing. It’d be a lot more understandable to put him into retirement if Germany had good replacements at the position.


----------



## Albatros

On the other hand there's no real need for someone better right now, I'd give young players the opportunity to gain experience and think about it again next year if they haven't found their form meanwhile.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Ive defended Uli in the past but his recent rants vs Ter Stegen and the DFB are kinda nutty. Dudes gone off the reservation.


----------



## Ajacied

Amazing goal by Dilrosun vs Paderborn. Hopefully he can stay healthy. I liked him very much before his major injury last season.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Coutinho is good again. Shocking. When will people learn that having your stock drop at Barcelona or Real Madrid does not mean you are a bad player? Most very good players fall off when transferring to those teams. Only a few will stick, and often times its about having favorable circumstances instead of being better than the ones that don't.


----------



## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Coutinho is good again. Shocking. When will people learn that having your stock drop at Barcelona or Real Madrid does not mean you are a bad player? Most very good players fall off when transferring to those teams. Only a few will stick, and often times its about having favorable circumstances instead of being better than the ones that don't.



Don't think anyone said Coutinho is a bad player; he's just not a world class one.


----------



## cgf

YNWA14 said:


> Don't think anyone said Coutinho is a bad player; he's just not a world class one.




Not saying this applies to Coutinho, but we've seen too many world class players like Robben fail during their brief stints with Real or Barca, for an unsuccessful season or two with one of those clubs to prove that a guy isn't world class. Which is what PB is getting at...although if I'd agree that Coutinho simply isn't consistent enough to be considered world class, even if (like Hamez) you can put him in that discussion when on-form/at-his-best.


----------



## Bon Esprit

nvm.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Coutinho is what I'd call a 'nifty little player', but I'd say he's a little too one dimensional to ever to be a world class player. It wasn't entirely shocking that he couldn't light it up at Barca.

Gladbach struggling with Düsseldorf, level now after trailing. After getting rolled by an Austrian team on Thursday a loss here would have put Rose on the hot seat.


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

witsel!


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

This is why Bayern will win again. Maybe Leipzig gives them a run for their money, but they probably don't have the squad depth for that. A coach switch won't be happening until the end of the season, if it happens.


----------



## Albatros

If such results will continue, and they will, I don't think Favre will see the end of the season.


----------



## YNWA14

Only saw extended highlights at the moment, but Witsel has to be among the best midfielders in Europe. Fantastic player. Sancho will eventually go for a world record fee despite a few struggles today.


cgf said:


> Not saying this applies to Coutinho, but we've seen too many world class players like Robben fail during their brief stints with Real or Barca, for an unsuccessful season or two with one of those clubs to prove that a guy isn't world class. Which is what PB is getting at...although if I'd agree that Coutinho simply isn't consistent enough to be considered world class, even if (like Hamez) you can put him in that discussion when on-form/at-his-best.



I would say that Coutinho has world class talent but he just doesn't have the consistency or mentality to become a world class player. There are many players out there that, on their day, can take over a game that just don't have the work ethic or consistency to be considered in the upper echelon of players. I loved Coutinho (really soured on him the way he left) but I had kind of 'turned' on him in this sense in the previous season when the team became overly reliant on him and you could see he just isn't suited to that role. I thought he'd do better at Barcelona without the burden of being the main man, but I think the last season with Klopp really went to his head stylistically and he had other burdens to overcome that I think he couldn't. Bayern is another good situation for him with very low expectations where I think he can do well.


----------



## Corto

YNWA14 said:


> I would say that Coutinho has world class talent but he just doesn't have the consistency or mentality to become a world class player. There are many players out there that, on their day, can take over a game that just don't have the work ethic or consistency to be considered in the upper echelon of players.




I don't think it's the effort or consistency. It's that he best plays in a "10" role which is all but extinct.

Be it Coutinho, James, Özil, etc... The number 10s natural players have very little place in today's football (I'm tempted to say a new meta, before the new patch comes out).

Bayern has one spot for a "special" role, be it Müller Raumdeuter role or Coutinho's "10" - so it just might work for him, as well as for Bayern where Kovac basically switches the system depending on whether Coutinho or Müller plays (he says he doesn't see a way to start both of them at the same time).


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Hoeness is insane. This time he said that Bayern won’t release any players to the German National Team if Neuer isn’t starting.

Would Germany be better off with ter-Stegen in goal or Neuer in goal with Kimmich, Goretzka, Gnabry and Mueller also available? 

I’d lean towards the Bayern players, but I think it’s closer than most would think. The difference in value of having the best keeper in the world in net as opposed to a keeper ranked 6-10 is enormous.


----------



## Live in the Now

They're not allowed to do that, so it doesn't matter what he says.


----------



## Cassano




----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Hoeness is insane. This time he said that Bayern won’t release any players to the German National Team if Neuer isn’t starting.
> 
> Would Germany be better off with ter-Stegen in goal or Neuer in goal with Kimmich, Goretzka, Gnabry and Mueller also available?
> 
> I’d lean towards the Bayern players, but I think it’s closer than most would think. The difference in value of having the best keeper in the world in net as opposed to a keeper ranked 6-10 is enormous.



Keep Neur ... So, Argentina don't have to face the coolest keeper in the world.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Union Berlin are paying their dues. cgf might not be amused but aware of that. It's going to be tough as expected.


----------



## Bon Esprit

lol. Schalke. They are ripping apart Red Bull.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Good draw by Dortmund at home against a mid-table team missing 10 players.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> lol. Schalke. They are ripping apart Red Bull.




David Wagner might be the dude that Dortmund wish they had.


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> David Wagner might be the dude that Dortmund wish they had.



And the best part is that's basically the same (almost) relegation roster from last year. I don't think it will last long, but I love the early weeks.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Good draw by Dortmund at home against a mid-table team missing 10 players.



Weigl was used as CB? Balerdi was benched smh


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Weigl was used as CB? Balerdi was benched smh




Zagadou should've played. This is exactly why Diallo left. He knew he wouldn't play. As good as Hummels has been, I didn't like that signing. We had a good group of CB's. It was a totally unnecessary change to one of our best positions.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> And the best part is that's basically the same (almost) relegation roster from last year. I don't think it will last long, but I love the early weeks.




I don't think they will be in the CL qualifying spots at the end of the season, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were in the 5-7 range. The gap between teams in the BuLi isn't all that big really, and there's a number of teams that are pretty questionable really. Looking at the table I feel like there's 7-8 teams that one could see getting relegated without using one's imagination too much.


----------



## HajdukSplit

For US viewers, Bundesliga moving to ESPN+ next season. Select games will be shown over the air but for majority will be the online stream


----------



## Cassano

My striker


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I'm generally not a big fan of Watzke, but what did he say thats wrong? 

Auba took the money to play at a team that plays in the Europa League year after year. 

He nearly took the money to play in China. The guy wanted a big contract. I can't blame him. He hadn't been a star for 10 years in Europe like most of his counterparts. He probably has been paid a lot less through the years than most players at these big clubs. 

And, like Dembele, the player he referenced, he was completely unprofessional in forcing a move away from Dortmund. The team doesn't object to letting players leave if they want out.


----------



## Cassano

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm generally not a big fan of Watzke, but what did he say thats wrong?
> 
> Auba took the money to play at a team that plays in the Europa League year after year.
> 
> He nearly took the money to play in China. The guy wanted a big contract. I can't blame him. He hadn't been a star for 10 years in Europe like most of his counterparts. He probably has been paid a lot less through the years than most players at these big clubs.
> 
> And, like Dembele, the player he referenced, he was completely unprofessional in forcing a move away from Dortmund. The team doesn't object to letting players leave if they want out.



It seemed like an unprovoked attack on Aubameyang. Like a jealous ex-GF or something.


----------



## KJS14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm generally not a big fan of Watzke, but what did he say thats wrong?
> 
> Auba took the money to play at a *team that plays in the Europa League year after year.*




That's an interesting way to analyze it, considering Arsenal played in the CL 22 of the last 25 years and the EL 3 of the last 25 years. He clearly expected for Arsenal to be back in the CL, which they really should have accomplished the last 2 years, but they choked in away games in the 2nd half of both seasons.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Auba is right that Watzke is a clown and just as enamored with money as any player. Dortmund sell players far more readily than clubs with similar finances. And why even make those comments?


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Because Watzke thinks its his job to be Dortmunds Uli Hoeness so talking smack about people to the press is just par for the course.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Cassano said:


> My striker


----------



## Deficient Mode

Waste of a great roster continues


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

It's the same thing every game. Go ahead early by outplaying teams we should. Once we get the lead, turtle and lose the lead. 

Favre-ball.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Freiburg definitely deserves this result also, if it stands. This is the worst we've played all season. The attack is anemic without Sancho, which anyone could see was coming once he needed a rest. Reus is drastically out of form, while Brandt and Hazard have added nothing since joining the club. I'd try Guerreiro on the left wing again. It worked last season.


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Because Watzke thinks its his job to be Dortmunds Uli Hoeness so talking smack about people to the press is just par for the course.



As much as I dislike Hoeneß, Watzke is not playing in Hoeneß' league.

In other news, Bayern are about to loose at home and Leipzig to mf Leverkusen.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> It's the same thing every game. Go ahead early by outplaying teams we should. Once we get the lead, turtle and lose the lead.
> 
> Favre-ball.




Again.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I could see Favre going before the winter break. This has continued for weeks now. There might not be any better candidates, but I don't think we are going to accept a full season of mediocrity just because there aren't any great replacement candidates out there. Take a stand that Favre's results aren't good enough, and the club isn't going to stand for his mediocrity.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Freiburg! Lol. Champions League material!


----------



## PansCyans

Bayern lose at home to Hoffenheim. Probably still on a high from the CL thrashing handed out to Spurs midweek.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Hoffenheim played it very cleverly, but I also felt like Bayern played with a certain arrogance, like they expected to get a few goals just by showing up.

With regard to Favre, I struggle to see him last past this season in Dortmund, hes in the stage now where he just shrugs and smiles when something bad happens.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> As much as I dislike Hoeneß, Watzke is not playing in Hoeneß' league.
> 
> In other news, Bayern are about to loose at home and Leipzig to mf Leverkusen.




Hoeness has gotten worse since his release from jail to be honest. He always was self-righteous and prone to outbursts, but he seems to have lost any sense of moderation. Maybe after prison he just has no more effs to give.


----------



## bluesfan94

1-10 in Bundesliga separated by 4 points. This is fun. Might wake up to watch the cooler Borussia go top. @cgf


----------



## Bon Esprit

Gladbach are destroying Augsburg. 3-0 after 13 minutes.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Gladbach and Leipzig will be the teams that push Bayern this year.


----------



## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> Union Berlin are paying their dues. cgf might not be amused but aware of that. It's going to be tough as expected.




Yeah. We could've stolen a point today and would've deserved more than a point from our match with Augsburg if not for the late red...but I've said it before & it remains true today: I'm thoroughly enjoying the experience regardless of results. This is something I genuinely thought that I would never see & it kills me that having just gone back to school, I was unable to drop everything & move back to Berlin for the season.

...plus as a Union fan, I've got a lot of practice caring more about the team giving their all to try & play positive football, than I have about our results.


On the plus side, I'm pretty happy with Rose's work in Gladbach thus far. He & the roster are still figuring each other out, but I like what he's going for, for them.


----------



## Bon Esprit

cgf said:


> Yeah. We could've stolen a point today and would've deserved more than a point from our match with Augsburg if not for the late red...but I've said it before & it remains true today: I'm thoroughly enjoying the experience regardless of results. This is something I genuinely thought that I would never see & it kills me that having just gone back to school, I was unable to drop everything & move back to Berlin for the season.
> 
> ...plus as a Union fan, I've got a lot of practice caring more about the team giving their all to try & play positive football, than I have about our results.
> 
> 
> On the plus side, I'm pretty happy with Rose's work in Gladbach thus far. He & the roster are still figuring each other out, but I like what he's going for, for them.



I still think there are worse teams than Union. Köln or Augsburg aren't better, and of course Paderborn. Your goal must be to come in 15th or 16th. But you know that of course.
Damn Wobbies will be good this year. I hate it!
It's still early, but I like what's going on in the league right now. At least for now it's not that boring Bayern or Dortmund thing. Won't last forever, but it's entertaining.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Basti Schweinsteiger retires. Never knew he's 35 now. Well. good career, not so sure about the Chicago part.

In ther news: Somebody claims he knows the next German NT jersey.
Deutschland-Trikot geleakt! So soll das EM-Jersey aussehen

Looks a bit like China crap, but on the other hand Germans can't do jerseys.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> Gladbach and Leipzig will be the teams that push Bayern this year.




Leipzig might. We're better than Gladbach. They often times have good starts, and fall off. I think Leverkusen will also be better than Gladbach.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Leipzig might. We're better than Gladbach. They often times have good starts, and fall off. I think Leverkusen will also be better than Gladbach.




Dortmund are better than both on paper but both of those teams have far better managers.


----------



## DoyleG

Adios, Sahin.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Should have known that as the Kurd militias are leftist St Pauli would come down strong on that.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Is there any worry from German fans that the quality of player they are producing isn't as good as the top countries anymore? 

In the German National Team, there's currently two youth eligible players on the team, Havertz and Serdar. Serdar also was only a replacement player for an injured player, and no one would mistake him for some future star. Havertz appears to be the only young German who matches up to what is being produced by teams like France, Germany, Brazil and England. 

If you look at the youth teams for Germany, most of them either don't play at good teams or if they play at a good team, they don't play. What happened to the quality of players being produced by Germany?


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

It works in cycles. People act like you can produce world class players like in a factory. Doesnt work like that. 

I think there was a conceit among German football officials, the media etc. that somehow they “solved” talent development in the 00s for good. In reality, whatever you do that works will be copied by everyone else. Theres no permanent built-in guarantees. Germany has numbers, thats the main advantage over say Belgium or the Netherlands, but numbers dont guarantee that you will produce a top 10 player. Sometimes your best player in a 2-3 year period is more Andi Möller and less Beckenbauer.


----------



## YNWA14

All of Kimmich, Werner, Gnabry, Brandt, Sane, Sule, Goretzka, Havertz, etc. are under 25. Even ter Stegen is still young for a keeper. They have a bunch of really talented youngsters coming up as well. I think they're doing just fine. They need a new coach though.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Is there any worry from German fans that the quality of player they are producing isn't as good as the top countries anymore?
> 
> In the German National Team, there's currently two youth eligible players on the team, Havertz and Serdar. Serdar also was only a replacement player for an injured player, and no one would mistake him for some future star. Havertz appears to be the only young German who matches up to what is being produced by teams like France, Germany, Brazil and England.
> 
> If you look at the youth teams for Germany, most of them either don't play at good teams or if they play at a good team, they don't play. What happened to the quality of players being produced by Germany?



Today the French are top tier, but weren't relevant for years. Before that it was Spain and they weren't relevant for many years before. England might have a good future, but weren't top for years. I'm not concerned. Germany is still better than in the late 90s and early 2000s.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Is there any worry from German fans that the quality of player they are producing isn't as good as the top countries anymore?
> 
> In the German National Team, there's currently two youth eligible players on the team, Havertz and Serdar. Serdar also was only a replacement player for an injured player, and no one would mistake him for some future star. Havertz appears to be the *only young German* who matches up to what is being produced by teams like France, *Germany*, Brazil and England.
> 
> If you look at the youth teams for Germany, most of them either don't play at good teams or if they play at a good team, they don't play. What happened to the quality of players being produced by Germany?



HUH?

In any case I hope Argentina could suck as much as Germany in producing players. Although this up coming generation looks very promising.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> HUH?
> 
> In any case I hope Argentina could suck as much as Germany in producing players. Although this up coming generation looks very promising.




I meant Netherlands.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

And yet people were saying the Netherlands were done as a major power like what a year or two ago?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> And yet people were saying the Netherlands were done as a major power like what a year or two ago?




I agree, but I didn’t say Germany was done. I was asking what happened with their player production.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

I know you didnt. My point was that everyone wondered why the Dutch no longer produced players, in fact it was discussed on here. But then they produced a few after all. I think its the same everywhere. All you need is a few guys not panning out or just having struggles during their development, and it looks like theres no talent. 

I think with Germany theres been a few misses and guys not turning out quite as well as people hoped. But the margins are thin at the top. People talk about the bad 90s and early 00s but Germany had some great footballers at the time, just not enough at an absolute elite level.


----------



## Albatros

I think with the Dutch it was more that they lacked good enough defensive players for a while and so the squad lacked balance. It didn't help that the atmosphere was quite poisoned at times.


----------



## YNWA14

Albatros said:


> I think with the Dutch it was more that they lacked good enough defensive players for a while and so the squad lacked balance. It didn't help that the atmosphere was quite poisoned at times.



It was honestly mostly just a matter of being a transition period and having really poor decisions made at the managerial and higher level.


----------



## Albatros

Still van Dijk's emergence has helped them a lot, losing against Bulgaria in 2017 their back end still consisted of Zoet, Karsdorp, de Ligt (17 yo), Martins Indi, and Blind.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Is there any worry from German fans that the quality of player they are producing isn't as good as the top countries anymore?
> 
> In the German National Team, there's currently two youth eligible players on the team, Havertz and Serdar. Serdar also was only a replacement player for an injured player, and no one would mistake him for some future star. Havertz appears to be the only young German who matches up to what is being produced by teams like France, Germany, Brazil and England.
> 
> If you look at the youth teams for Germany, most of them either don't play at good teams or if they play at a good team, they don't play. What happened to the quality of players being produced by Germany?




The 97s & 98s were terrible age groups for us and those are currently the 20-22 year-olds that are usually the leading figures of any youth movement...although the 97ers are starting to put together some NT-caliber depth; even if Torunarigha & Mittelstadt are the only realistic starters IMO...throw in that the 99ers lacked elite talent beyond Havertz, Meier, & Itter*, and it's not really a surprise that those age groups are doing little for the NT.

Plus those weak age groups are still populating the eldest youth NTs; meaning that there are a lot of sub-senior-NT spots for the more talented players from younger age groups to fill. Which, when add to our senior NT having a lot of 23 & 24 year old talent to lean on -- Sane, Gnabry, Brandt, Werner, Amiri, Waldschmidt, Kimmich, Goretzka, M. Eggestein, Weigl, Klostermann, Kehrer, Tah, Süle -- means that there's little impulse to rush talents from the 2000ers & younger age groups, who could be breaking in on a weaker NT.

Basically; since the stacked 95ers & 96ers made it to the senior level, we've been waiting for the kids born this millennium to start formulating the next wave. Especially since those 95ers/96ers + Kai + a few key older pieces, is more than enough talent for Jogi to fail with. Though some big injuries robbing top talents like J. Eggestein & Mbom of key developmental season and Leipzig wasting a year of development for their kids, have delayed that next wave a bit at present.

*and his development hasn't exactly gone as smoothly as Lahm's did


Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I meant Netherlands.




Same thing really


----------



## maclean

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Should have known that as the Kurd militias are leftist St Pauli would come down strong on that.




Gundogan and Can were also flirting with trouble for "liking" the Turkish NT's military salute photo. They took their likes back and apologised. Sahin said he saw nothing wrong with it and wouldn't retract. Personally I think he can go f*** himself


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

The double standard is something to behold.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Favre suspends Sancho for tonight's game, because he arrived late from english NT.

Vor Gladbach-Spiel: Favre suspendiert Sancho


----------



## Deficient Mode

Bon Esprit said:


> Favre suspends Sancho for tonight's game, because he arrived late from english NT.
> 
> Vor Gladbach-Spiel: Favre suspendiert Sancho




Great.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Deficient Mode said:


> Great.



It's obvious they can afford it. I mean the Dortmund Borussia is better than the Gladbach Borussia, Am I right?


----------



## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> It's obvious they can afford it. I mean the Dortmund Borussia is better than the Gladbach Borussia, Am I right?




Favre, of all people, knows this isn't true.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Did anyone see the offsides? Looked like a ridiculous call to me.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I thought the offside looked like the right call. Favre also didn’t say it’s only a one game suspension. That’s what Zorc said. Favre didn’t say how long it would be, and he coaches the team, so Zorc can make him available for selection, and Favre can choose not to play him.

If we somehow win this game, it’ll be a big accomplishment. We are using a complete makeshift team today.


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

Joke refing here. BS Offsides, now this BS "he cant see" rule. Please.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

MrFunnyWobbl said:


> Joke refing here. BS Offsides, now this BS "he cant see" rule. Please.




I think the second one is a poorly enforced rule. It should only be enforced when the keeper had a chance to make a save. While Sommer’s view was obstructed by Reus, he had almost no chance to stop the shot by Brandt.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Wow. I'm surprised that Dortmund didn't manage to snatch a draw from the jaws of victory once more with Favre again going for the "substitute multiple defenders on for attackers in the last few minutes" strategy. I don't know what's wrong with Akanji but he shouldn't be playing right now.



MrFunnyWobbl said:


> Joke refing here. BS Offsides, now this BS "he cant see" rule. Please.




I'm not a fan of the visual obstruction part of the offsides rule either. Sommer wasn't reaching that ball either way.


----------



## Bon Esprit

And all of a sudden crappy 8th place BvB are are back in the race. LOL!


----------



## PansCyans

Nine teams within two points of each other. Awesome race early on.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Bon Esprit said:


> And all of a sudden crappy 8th place BvB are are back in the race. LOL!




2 points from 1st to 9th. What a mediocre year. None of these teams are actually good.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Deficient Mode said:


> 2 points from 1st to 9th. What a mediocre year. None of these teams are actually good.



Bayern just lost their best defender, maybe long-term. As an almost unbiased football fan it's pretty entertaining.
Get well. Süle btw.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Missed the Hummels foul on Herrmann in the box live but alongside Bürki's two miraculous stops on Embolo further underscores that Dortmund were extremely lucky not to concede today.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> Bayern just lost their best defender, maybe long-term. As an almost unbiased football fan it's pretty entertaining.
> Get well. Süle btw.




As long as Leipzig drop off at some point, it's all good.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> I don't know what's wrong with Akanji but he shouldn't be playing right now.




He hasn’t been the same since his hip injury last year.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Süle tore his cruciate ligament, will indeed be out long-term. Get well, soon dude. It's a huge loss for Bayern.
Interesting to see that not Boateng, but Alaba replaced him.


----------



## Lambo

Now 9 Teams in title race. Between 1st and 9th only 2 Points difference.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Stupid Schalke messed it up. They've been better than Hoffenheim, but couldn't score. Cold have been first.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

The Bundesliga has to be the weakest it’s been in a very long time compared to the other top leagues. Bayern failed to replace their old stars and are therefore mediocre now because of it. It’s the rare season where Dortmund’s squad is older, more talented and probably more expensive than Bayern. Usually it’s the other way around, but Dortmund this year is very poorly coached and is underachieving. Leipzig could challenge because they are extremely well coached, very young and talented, but probably don’t have the depth to compete at the end of the season. Everyone else will fall away.

I tend to think that Leipzig will continue to improve in upcoming years and Dortmund will stabilize. Can Bayern get back to their best? If they can, the league can get back to being in contention for best in the world.


----------



## Bon Esprit

So neither Paco nor Reus will be able to play at Inter. This sucks.
BVB: Marco Reus fällt für Champions-League-Kracher bei Inter Mailand aus


----------



## Bon Esprit

Former Bundesliga club SG Wattenscheid 09 is dead.
Wattenscheid 09 muss den Spielbetrieb einstellen

Today they were playing at Regionalliga West (4th league).

Klaus Steilmann pumped money into that club.

In other news:

SC Freiburg can't use their new stadium after 8pm. So getting relegated is not a option.
Lärmschutz: Freiburg darf neues Stadion nach 20 Uhr nicht nutzen


----------



## gary69

I remember Soyleymane Sane (Leroy Sane's father) being a somewhat regular goalscorer for Wattenscheid when they were in the BL in the 90's. 

Seems that quite a few clubs who were in the BL in the 1980's/90's are permanently stuck below 2. BL. It would be nice to see at least Kaiserslautern come back in the upper echelons one day, although they now seem to more in danger of being relegated to Regionalliga than promoted to Zweite.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Wattenscheid never really had the fans to support a professional team. Its one of those things in Germany that the magnates prefer pouring money into clubs without the foundation to ever stand on their own account. The problem with clubs with traditional support bases is that those people have a voice and may object to your plans. Easier to control a club that totally depends on you. 

Theres 4 clubs currently in BuLi who’d wither away if outside support went away entirely: Wolfsburg, Leipzig, Leverkusen, Hoffenheim. None of them would be a huge loss.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Bon Esprit said:


> So neither Paco nor Reus will be able to play at Inter. This sucks.
> BVB: Marco Reus fällt für Champions-League-Kracher bei Inter Mailand aus




Don't think they'd have made much difference anyway.


----------



## Bon Esprit

I leave that here. The important part is behind a paywall. But anyways:
BVB: Lernt Mourinho für Dortmund schon Deutsch?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Bon Esprit said:


> I leave that here. The important part is behind a paywall. But anyways:
> BVB: Lernt Mourinho für Dortmund schon Deutsch?




Oh god. Hahaha. Please no. We're already in the grips of a late term Mourinho team with zero offensive coordination, a total waste of talented players.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> Oh god. Hahaha. Please no. We're already in the grips of a late term Mourinho team with zero offensive coordination, a total waste of talented players.




Can Mourinho be worse than Favre?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Can Mourinho be worse than Favre?




Yes. And with much more drama. It'd just be such a baffling choice to go to an infamously defense-only coach with the shape the team is in now.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Deficient Mode said:


> Yes. And with much more drama. It'd just be such a baffling choice to go to an infamously defense-only coach with the shape the team is in now.



I don't think he's an option in reality. But if Dortmund loose the derby Favre is in deep trouble. IMO they already have a replacement.


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Wattenscheid never really had the fans to support a professional team. Its one of those things in Germany that the magnates prefer pouring money into clubs without the foundation to ever stand on their own account. The problem with clubs with traditional support bases is that those people have a voice and may object to your plans. Easier to control a club that totally depends on you.
> 
> Theres 4 clubs currently in BuLi who’d wither away if outside support went away entirely: Wolfsburg, Leipzig, Leverkusen, Hoffenheim. None of them would be a huge loss.



Well, Wattenscheid is nothing more than a district of Bochum. The Ruhrgebiet has more football to offer than Wattenscheid. Dortmund, Schalke and lower RW Essen, MSV Duisburg or VfL Bochum and RW Oberhausen. Actually this aera has "only" 5 million citizens


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I just don't see how Dortmund could actually be much worse off this season. I think this is easily the best group of players we've had in years. The Bundesliga is as bad as it's been in years, and we are still about where we'd normally be in the league standings compared to the league leader. In the UCL, we are about where we'd usually be, battling it out for second, if we get a tough group.

And we are doing all of this with a much more talented squad than usual. I think there's a base line that this team is too good to go below, given the improved squad, and I think its pretty close to what we are currently seeing.


----------



## Bon Esprit

German amateur football has a severe problem with violence.
"Deutliches Stopp-Zeichen": Streik der Berliner Schiedsrichter

Here where I live we had similar actions of violence in youth football. 15/16 year olds. WTF!


----------



## Bon Esprit

LOL!



Für die Geschichtsbücher: Eberweins erster Ballkontakt in der zweiten Liga


----------



## Bon Esprit

Wow, Favre changed the half team.


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

The sum of the parts is less than the total with this BVB team.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Not sure why Dortmund waited until the last 20 minutes to start playing but overall 0-0 is probably a fortunate result for them.


----------



## Lambo

Bon Esprit said:


> Former Bundesliga club SG Wattenscheid 09 is dead.
> Wattenscheid 09 muss den Spielbetrieb einstellen
> 
> Today they were playing at Regionalliga West (4th league).
> 
> Klaus Steilmann pumped money into that club.
> 
> In other news:
> 
> SC Freiburg can't use their new stadium after 8pm. So getting relegated is not a option.
> Lärmschutz: Freiburg darf neues Stadion nach 20 Uhr nicht nutzen



Yes SG09(With Coach Hannes Bongartz) 4 Years a Bundesliga-Member and 20 Years in 2. Bundesliga. This club reminds me of good old Bundesliga days.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I wasn't able to watch closely today, so I might be wrong, but it looked like Hitz must've made 45 saves. 

Yet again, another draw. I guess not a terrible result away against Schalke, but if we were playing well, a draw is not a good result against the caliber of team we faced, regardless of if it was the Derby or not.


----------



## Albatros

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Theres 4 clubs currently in BuLi who’d wither away if outside support went away entirely: Wolfsburg, Leipzig, Leverkusen, Hoffenheim. None of them would be a huge loss.




Jain. Mainz is of similar size as a club and has managed to stay up for a remarkable period of time without such support. So it really depends on how well they would be managed without the sponsorship.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

This is what happens when the coach refuses to have strikers in the squad.



And there's absolutely nothing to see here. Only three points back in the league!


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> This is what happens when the coach refuses to have strikers in the squad.
> 
> 
> 
> And there's absolutely nothing to see here. Only three points back in the league!





As Lars' tweet says, the problems with the team's attack right now are so far beyond a striker.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> As Lars' tweet says, the problems with the team's attack right now are so far beyond a striker.




I was referring to the response. Our attack is astonishingly bad right now. It’s almost hard to believe a team that maintains some semblance of possession could be so bad at turning possession into goal scoring chances. Surely we’d at least get some chances when other teams make errors.

And I also agree that it’s not only about the lack of a striker. I don’t doubt the players. I doubt the system and how the coach is motivating the players.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bon Esprit said:


> German amateur football has a severe problem with violence.
> "Deutliches Stopp-Zeichen": Streik der Berliner Schiedsrichter
> 
> Here where I live we had similar actions of violence in youth football. 15/16 year olds. WTF!



Nach Schiri-Attacke: FSV Münster meldet gesamte Mannschaft ab - WELT


----------



## Bon Esprit

Köln. LOL.

cgf should be amused, btw.


----------



## YNWA14

Bayern losing in the Pokal via an own goal from...Alphonso Davies. 

Though from what I've read Bayern fans still think he's been the best player for them for the last 2 games (including this one)...and he's being played out of position again.


----------



## Bon Esprit

YNWA14 said:


> Bayern losing in the Pokal via an own goal from...Alphonso Davies.
> 
> Though from what I've read Bayern fans still think he's been the best player for them for the last 2 games (including this one)...and he's being played out of position again.



And then came the 83rd and 89th minute. Business as usual.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

And even though they won they still treat it like a disaster in Munich. I guess anything short of a 5-0 in a cup tie vs a lower tier opponent is scandalous for the folks at the Säbener Str.


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> And even though they won they still treat it like a disaster in Munich. I guess anything short of a 5-0 in a cup tie vs a lower tier opponent is scandalous for the folks at the Säbener Str.



If only Schalke and Dortmund had strikers who can score.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Playing Gladbach is an automatic victory for us. 10 wins in a row against them.


----------



## YNWA14

Has anyone seen much of Johannes Eggestein of late? Seems like they’re trying to turn him into a midfielder now and he seems to be falling further and further away from the promise he once had.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

YNWA14 said:


> Has anyone seen much of Johannes Eggestein of late? Seems like they’re trying to turn him into a midfielder now and he seems to be falling further and further away from the promise he once had.



He’s just make a late run as Balon D’or candidate.


----------



## Bon Esprit

May I say that I like what Red Bull did to Volkswagen? 1:6, good stuff.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Some nice derbys this weekend.

düsseldorf-köln
leverkusen-gladbach

and of course

union-hertha
did they even play each other in pro football? serious question.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

They were in the 2.Liga together in 2010/11. I remember those matches. But for obvious reasons theres not much of a history of those teams playing each other..


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Edit: Accidental multi post. 

Every time they play helps Union even if Hertha win just because it positions Union as an equivalent alternative to the not widely liked Hertha.


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> They were in the 2.Liga together in 2010/11. I remember those matches. But for obvious reasons theres not much of a history of those teams playing each other..



I remember a report that Union and Hertha had some kind of friendship during the GDR/FRG times in the eighties. Long gone I guess. I bet they had some history in the early days of last century. Union is only 50plus years old on paper, but their roots are far older. Interesting history btw., could only happen in Berlin.
1. FC Union Berlin - Wikipedia


----------



## Bon Esprit

Leipzig- Wow! They are destroying Mainz.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

It's time to turtle, and collect our draw.


----------



## Bon Esprit

LOL Bayern.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> I remember a report that Union and Hertha had some kind of friendship during the GDR/FRG times in the eighties. Long gone I guess. I bet they had some history in the early days of last century. Union is only 50plus years old on paper, but their roots are far older. Interesting history btw., could only happen in Berlin.
> 1. FC Union Berlin - Wikipedia




Once Hertha started collecting fans in the East as Berlin's most successful club those days of friendship were definitely over.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Dortmund back to last year's form of merely sleepwalking through the first half instead of sleepwalking through the entire game. 
'
Playing a bit better defense and Hitz has been good.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> It's time to turtle, and collect our draw.



Yeah, pixx poor Dortmnd just got destroyed by Frankfurt 5:1. Disgusting effort. Oh wait, Dortmund is 2nd after 10 games.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Yeah, pixx poor Dortmnd just got destroyed by Frankfurt 5:1. Disgusting effort. Oh wait, Dortmund is 2nd after 10 games.




I don't understand why Kovac doesn't want to play Goretzka. As mediocre as Dortmund is, Bayern's defense is in complete shambles, and they might make Dortmund's attack look good next week if Kovac insists on a backline of Davies-Alaba-Martinez-Pavard with Kimmich in midfield, and Goretzka on the bench.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Rumors that Kovac could be getting fired. Unfortunate if true.


----------



## Albatros

After 5:1 it's bound to happen, I'm not convinced that a mid-season replacement will take them to another level though.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Albatros said:


> After 5:1 it's bound to happen, I'm not convinced that a mid-season replacement will take them to another level though.




Could certainly be enough to shore them up for a 10 point league victory though. Obviously if they want to get back to being a top Champions League contender they need more than a coaching overhaul - and yeah, certainly not with the candidates available midseason.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Dortmund looked a lot better today when Reus came out of the match. Surely a coincidence.

Reus and Akanji have to stop living on their reputations. If these two aren't going to play well, they should be benched.


----------



## DrMartinVanNostrand

Deficient Mode said:


> Could certainly be enough to shore them up for a 10 point league victory though. Obviously if they want to get back to being a top Champions League contender they need more than a coaching overhaul - and yeah, certainly not with the candidates available midseason.




Wonder what Onkel Jupp is up to right about now. That Band-Aid worked well the last time.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Deficient Mode said:


> Rumors that Kovac could be getting fired. Unfortunate if true.



I guess it's a sealed deal that Kovac is done at Bayern. It's not just the Bundesliga, but the CL. Rummenigge didn't like him anyway. He'll be sacked before christmas.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Congrats to Union btw.


----------



## Lambo

I love this season! Very competitive in Top tier.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Hannover 96 sacked Mirko Slomka. LOL.
Putting together a crappy team and expecting to get promoted doesn't work. Ask Hamburg last year.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Apparently Kovac got sacked.
Jetzt also doch: Kovac-Aus bei den Bayern

Rumour is Allegri will be his successor.

A more reliable source
Bayern München trennt sich von Trainer Kovac


----------



## JoemAvs

Bon Esprit said:


> Apparently Kovac got sacked.
> Jetzt also doch: Kovac-Aus bei den Bayern
> 
> Rumour is Allegri will be his successor.
> 
> A more reliable source
> Bayern München trennt sich von Trainer Kovac




Thank god for that. Maybe now Bayern will become somewhat watchable again.
These rumors about Allegri and Mourinho are coming mostly from international outlets. I have just read an admittedly somewhat questionable german source linking Ten Haag to Bayern.
Really hope that is where they will be going. EtH is exactly what this team needds right now IMO. Bit of a gamble but not much more than bringing Mourinho into our powder keg (which just won't work) or Allegri who as far as I know knows no German and only somewhat limited English and plays a style that probably won't be looked upon all too favorably after the lean years of Kovac when it comes to our playing style and how watchable our team was...


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich




----------



## YNWA14

Would love to see Dortmund top the league again though I’m not sure Favre deserves it.


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

YNWA14 said:


> Would love to see Dortmund top the league again though I’m not sure Favre deserves it.




oh you're sure he don't deserve it


----------



## Deficient Mode

YNWA14 said:


> Would love to see Dortmund top the league again though I’m not sure Favre deserves it.




The reasons Favre doesn't deserve it are the same reasons why it's highly unlikely to happen. This probably would have been a more appropriate thing to say last year, actually, when they were playing much worse than their record would suggest but leading the league for most of the year. 

Bayern will right the ship as they did after a shaky start in both of the past two seasons.


----------



## Albatros

Allegri seems somewhat overrated to me, great achievements on paper but I never got the feeling that it was his doing beyond the daily management of already existing success. Add a foreign environment and I doubt it would be a match made in heaven. Probably just a rumor anyway.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I wouldn’t bet on Dortmund over Bayern. That’d be stupid, as last season showed, but I think Bayern’s in big trouble. Their team has gotten worse and worse, and now they have an inferior squad to Dortmund. Their manager is an interim guy who has never been a manager at the highest level. They also have some huge injury issues at CB, and they’ve went for years with no back up plan at CF. Dortmund can absorb any one player missing games because the squad is very deep and can rotate players in and out of the lineup. Bayern will struggle to qualify for Europe, if Lewandowski missed significant time.

I’d still give Bayern good odds to win the league, but that’s only on reputation. Everything else is in Dortmund’s favor. Dortmund hasn’t even played well this season, and we’re ahead of Bayern. Usually we need to greatly overachieve to keep pace with them. Not anymore.


----------



## Bon Esprit

It's obvious Bayern needs help immediately.

I leave two names here.
Hans MF Sarpei

Home - Hans Sarpei - Das T steht für Coach

and Peter "the brain" Neururer as Sarpei's support.

He helps everybody


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Sacking Kovac this early in the season is pretty wild even by Bayern standards. The fact that noone is really surprised tho tells you everything about his standing in the club.

I suspect that there were numerous senior players who didn’t like him. And I also suspect that Bayern leadership never really was fully behind him in the first place. Everyone agrees that Salihamdzic isnt a power factor, so it may have been a simple Uli v Kalle thing.


----------



## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> Köln. LOL.
> 
> cgf should be amused, btw.




It hasn't been the worst week for us 


Bon Esprit said:


> I remember a report that Union and Hertha had some kind of friendship during the GDR/FRG times in the eighties. *Long gone I guess. *I bet they had some history in the early days of last century. Union is only 50plus years old on paper, but their roots are far older. Interesting history btw., could only happen in Berlin.
> 1. FC Union Berlin - Wikipedia




I wouldn't say that. When I was young and a) BuLi.1 seemed a much more distant fantasy & b) Hertha had Marcelinho, there were many Union fans who rooted for Hertha in the 1st division. Hertha's collapse after the Marcelinho era made folks stop caring & the boring football they've played since getting their s*** together hasn't pulled fans back in, but there's never been a really intense rivalry with Hertha...we have BFC for that 

There's an anecdote from the summer about the league approaching us about having a "berlin derby" on opening day and our officials being genuinely confused until it was clarified that the opponent being discussed was Hertha & not Dynamo.


----------



## Bon Esprit

The need is great at Bayern.

65 yo Hermann Gerland got activated.
Don't get me wrong, Hermann is a cool guy, but wtf?

Gerland wird Flicks Co-Trainer


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

cgf said:


> It hasn't been the worst week for us
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say that. When I was young and a) BuLi.1 seemed a much more distant fantasy & b) Hertha had Marcelinho, there were many Union fans who rooted for Hertha in the 1st division. Hertha's collapse after the Marcelinho era made folks stop caring & the boring football they've played since getting their s*** together hasn't pulled fans back in, but there's never been a really intense rivalry with Hertha...we have BFC for that
> 
> There's an anecdote from the summer about the league approaching us about having a "berlin derby" on opening day and our officials being genuinely confused until it was clarified that the opponent being discussed was Hertha & not Dynamo.




IDK, its been talked about for several years now that the Eastern-based Hertha ultras dont get along well with the Union scene at all. It doesn’t surprise me. BFC have been 4th or 5th tier for many years now, which is not gonna pull in a lot of kids. Hertha was the natural successor to Dynamo everywhere where a trip to Köpenick is messy enough to not make it much preferable over a jaunt out West to see Hertha play BuLi.


----------



## cgf

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> IDK, its been talked about for several years now that the Eastern-based Hertha ultras dont get along well with the Union scene at all. It doesn’t surprise me. BFC have been 4th or 5th tier for many years now, which is not gonna pull in a lot of kids. Hertha was the natural successor to Dynamo everywhere where a trip to Köpenick is messy enough to not make it much preferable over a jaunt out West to see Hertha play BuLi.




There are unfortunately idiots who'll have trouble with everyone, but I was talking more about the general perspective from my age group (early-30s) -- who I know to be Union fans -- rather than the extreme Ultras.

Btdubs but a trip out to the Olympiastadion isn't exactly a shorter trek from east berlin than the Alte Försterei...even if you don't have grandparents that live 3 blocks from the S-bahn station ;-)


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Its not but Hertha was also playing 1 to 2 levels higher for most of those years. If its already going to be 45 mins to an hour anyway, an extra 15-20 mins to go to Olympiastadion wont be a dealbreaker to see Bayern, Schalke or even Milan instead of Aue, Osnabrück or Meppen.


----------



## cgf

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Its not but Hertha was also playing 1 to 2 levels higher for most of those years. If its already going to be 45 mins to an hour anyway, an extra 15-20 mins to go to Olympiastadion wont be a dealbreaker to see Bayern, Schalke or even Milan instead of Aue, Osnabrück or Meppen.




True that. Which is why there was a lot of cross-pollination, even amongst eastern kids (back when we were still kids lol).


----------



## Albatros

The opponents I understand but I guess the main difficulty is to find a reason why anyone would go to the Olympiastadion to see Hertha.


----------



## Bon Esprit

I dislike Hertha with a passion. They cheated and had the most violent "fans" (maybe Borussen-Front topped that) back in the day. Just google Hertha Frösche or Pepe Mager. Fcking Nazis, just like the western version of BFC.

need proof?


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Back in those days just about every BuLi team had a hooligan crew flirting with neonazis. HSV, Dortmund, Schalke, Duisburg, Lautern, Frankfurt, Bremen to name just a few. Thats why theres been so many issues between younger more leftist ultras and older mid 40s Kat C types at some clubs.


----------



## Albatros

Bon Esprit said:


> I dislike Hertha with a passion. They cheated and had the most violent "fans" (maybe Borussen-Front topped that) back in the day. Just google Hertha Frösche or Pepe Mager. Fcking Nazis, just like the western version of BFC.




Also Wannseefront, Zyklon B, Endsieg, Spree-Randale... But at the time the Hertha Nazis had connections to Union rather than BFC.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Albatros said:


> Also Wannseefront, Zyklon B, Endsieg, Spree-Randale... But at the time the Hertha Nazis had connections to Union rather than BFC.




Hertha changed a ton from the mid 90s onward. Promotion in 97, the attractive style of play under Röber and success got them a whole new fan base beyond the stereotypes of the 70s and 80s. While some of those old school guys are still around, most people under 40 in the Ostkurve have no association with that at all.


----------



## Albatros

Some older guys also jumped ship when the scene in the east got more attractive. The younger generations of Nazis are all about networking anyway, trying to take over clubs by sending reinforcements wherever they can cause the most damage.


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

what do i need to sacrifice to have pep at dortmund for a few seasons


----------



## cgf

We are now officially on a winning streak in the 1st division...wtf? Feels like we're selling out...


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Dortmund really need to get themselves another striker.

No outball whatsoever


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Should be the end of Favre. Won't be, but should.

Pathetic performance.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

D0rtmund exposed as a pretender.


----------



## cgf

Just another weekend that ends with the cooler Borussia right where they belong in the standings


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

So today was a big oof


----------



## Deficient Mode

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> D0rtmund exposed as a pretender.




Yeah, maybe a month ago. This is exactly what we should expect of their away matches now.


----------



## Lambo

BVB don t feel comfortable on away pitch.


----------



## Bon Esprit

You know it's autumn when the coaches fall.

Baierlorzer at Köln and Schwarz at Mainz. Good old effzeh is back.


----------



## Lambo

Bon Esprit said:


> You know it's autumn when the coaches fall.
> 
> Baierlorzer at Köln and Schwarz at Mainz. Good old effzeh is back.



Suitable for the carnival season.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Lambo said:


> Suitable for the carnival season.



Yeah, starts tomorrow.


----------



## Power Man

Bensebaini scored his 1st goal for Gladbach

also got his 1st red card lol


----------



## Chelis Chili

Unbelieveable scenes in Freiburg: 



Provocation from FR coach, body check a la hockey and red card for captain of Eintracht, red card for FR bench player. Never seen scene like this!


----------



## YNWA14

That Frankfurt guy that body checked the coach deserves a shit kicking.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

No coach is required to field the ball and help the opposing team with getting it thrown in quickly. Reacting like that deserves a full season suspension, in my opinion.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

I don't think it was that bad. Streich has already forgiven him. 4 games ban or something would be totally sufficient.


----------



## Bon Esprit

I don*t like the new kits of the NT. God are the boring.
Adidas: Das Trikot der Nationalmannschaft soll für Diversität stehen - WELT


----------



## Vasilevskiy

YNWA14 said:


> That Frankfurt guy that body checked the coach deserves a **** kicking.




Agreed, that's completely unacceptable


----------



## Bon Esprit

YNWA14 said:


> That Frankfurt guy that body checked the coach deserves a **** kicking.



It wasn't a random "Frankfurt guy". It was their team captain!


----------



## YNWA14

Finally got around to watching Bayern/Dortmund and wow...Davies is really coming into his own already. So many superlatives to use about this kid, but it says enough when announcers and fans alike in Germany are raving about a 19 year old playing out of position on one of the best teams in the world. A near flawless performance in this clash which was quite important and had big implications. Can't wait to see what his ceiling is like.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Jens Keller becomes the next coach of 1. FN Nürnberg. LOL!
The lol is not because of Keller or Nürnberg, but Keller was on sport1 talk last sunday. Seems to be a golden rule: Go to sport1 talk and then you'll get a new job within days.

In other news: The city, that doesn't even exists is leading the second Bundesliga now.Unreal, Thomas Helmer might like that.


----------



## Lambo

Bon Esprit said:


> Jens Keller becomes the next coach of 1. FN Nürnberg. LOL!
> The lol is not because of Keller or Nürnberg, but Keller was on sport1 talk last sunday. Seems to be a golden rule: Go to sport1 talk and then you'll get a new job within days.
> 
> In other news: The city, that doesn't even exists is leading the second Bundesliga now.Unreal, Thomas Helmer might like that.



Tele 5 advertising charakter Thomas Helmer? . Yes Arminia ..................(not exist) is crazy. East Westphalia rules(Arminia, Paderborn, Verl(DFB-Pokal)).


----------



## Bon Esprit

Lambo said:


> Tele 5 advertising charakter Thomas Helmer? . Yes Arminia ..................(not exist) is crazy. East Westphalia rules(Arminia, Paderborn, Verl(DFB-Pokal)).



Yeah, I remember that. Bodyshaper or something. Best part was he chuckled dring the tv spot, because it was so embarrassing.
Helmer is from OWL (Herford iirc) and played for Armina at some point of his career.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Chelis Chili said:


> Unbelieveable scenes in Freiburg:
> 
> 
> 
> Provocation from FR coach, body check a la hockey and red card for captain of Eintracht, red card for FR bench player. Never seen scene like this!




David Abraham got suspended for 7 weeks until Dec. 31. 
Eintracht-Profi David Abraham nach Check gegen Christian Streich bis Jahresende gesperrt

I guess it's a rather slight sentense.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Kenan Kocak will be the next coach of Hannover 96. TBH I have no clue who this guy is. He was at Sandhausen at some point and has roots in Mannheim (incl. VfR and Waldhof). Well, doesn't matter. If they are lucky they don't get relegated. I don't expect much.


----------



## Bon Esprit

I know we don't have any Bayern fans here and most of us dislike them with passion.
But to be fair a lot of people owe them. It's the last day of Uli Hoeneß as president of Bayern München.

https://www.kicker.de/762585/slideshow/die_retterspiele_des_fc_bayern_unter_hoeness


----------



## Albatros

Uli also owes a lot of people, quite literally.


----------



## Bon Esprit

So Beierlorzer to Mainz, Gisdol and Heldt to Köln. Kinda funny, cos Gisdol was at sport1 talk a couple of weeks go. I guess cgf will sleep well.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bild is saying Zagadou now wants to leave, as does Balerdi. This is after we sold Diallo last summer. I'm not even sure Balerdi has appeared for us in a competitive game, and we spent 15M on him.

This is exactly why I didn't want us to sign Hummels. And admittedly, he's been great, but his presence has caused all the young CB's to want to leave. We'll get much less than we should get for them because we'd be selling low, and next summer we'll end up with a struggling Akanji whose been shot ever since his hip injuries and Hummels, who can't move, despite still being a good player. CB will be a problem for us next season. I can see it coming.

Favre also deserves some blame for continuing to play Akanji, despite him playing terrible for months. He's even using Weigl at CB instead of these young CB's. Diallo was right to leave. He knew he wouldn't play.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Delaney picks up an injury and is out until January. A shame as I never like players to be injured. Let’s see if Favre is now willing to play Brandt deeper in midfield. The Bayern match showed the need of a box to box CM for the squad who can carry the ball forward, someone like the player Dahoud was supposed to develop into.


----------



## Bon Esprit

I knew it!
1. FC Köln: Mögliches FC-Comeback: Heldt wartet auf Podolski-Anruf!

Weird things will happen in Cologne, if they don't get ot of the cellar.


----------



## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> I knew it!
> 1. FC Köln: Mögliches FC-Comeback: Heldt wartet auf Podolski-Anruf!
> 
> Weird things will happen in Cologne, *if they don't get ot of the cellar*.




The bolded feels superfluous.


----------



## Bon Esprit

cgf said:


> The bolded feels superfluous.



That's right.

They did this "candles lighting at the Cologne dome " before. My guess is they will collect money to bring Poldi back and he will refuse the money and plays for free.
Some club's cultures are hard to understand, but 1 FC Köln is a complete different level.


----------



## cgf

Gunna suck when we help Bayern close the gap on BMG tomorrow


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Favre might not make it until the end of 2019 in the job the way things are going.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

That was a little generous to Favre. He might not make it until the second half.


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Tschüss Lucien.

What a shambles that was.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Prime time to fire Favre and replace him with Poch


----------



## Live in the Now

Favre is getting sacked tomorrow.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Last game of Favre in Bundesliga. 0:3 at home vs Paderborn?? Are you kidding me? Lucien has lost the team awhile ago, but this is plain and simple embarrassing.


----------



## Lambo

It seems like the BVB-Team plays against their own coach. This was the last game for Favre. Who could be the succesor? Korkut or Frontzeck?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

The fact that we got a draw should not see Favre keep his job.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Lambo said:


> It seems like the BVB-Team plays against their own coach. This was the last game for Favre. Who could be the succesor? Korkut or Frontzeck?



I bet Watzke and co already did their job finding options weeks ago. I think it will be no German. Just a feeling. They simply can't go on with Favre.


----------



## Lambo

Bon Esprit said:


> I bet Watzke and co already did their job finding options weeks ago. I think it will be no German. Just a feeling. They simply can't go on with Favre.



Yes maybe Pochettino?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> The fact that we got a draw should not see Favre keep his job.




Even if they had won today, the frequency with which they play terrible games against low table sides and drop points in those games should get him fired.


----------



## cgf

cgf said:


> Gunna suck when we help Bayern close the gap on BMG tomorrow




Sucks less than I thought it would


----------



## Bon Esprit

cgf said:


> Sucks less than I thought it would



Came here to post you are in a dilemma, because the better Berlin beat the better Borussia.


----------



## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> Came here to post you are in a dilemma, because* the better Berlin beat the better Borussia*.




This might be the most factually correct statement HF has ever seen.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bild says that a two-hour meeting was held yesterday after the game by Zorc and Watzke on Favre's job status. They speculate is that Favre won't be fired yet, though his job might not be safe depending on results in the midweek game and the game next weekend. The more reliable Kicker says that Favre is job is safe for this week.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Mainz wizh new coach and one man less with a huge 5:1 win at Hoffenhein. Augsburg deatroys Hertha 4:0.


----------



## cgf

Bon Esprit said:


> Mainz wizh new coach and one man less with a huge 5:1 win at Hoffenhein. Augsburg deatroys Hertha 4:0.




Just the truth of your previous statement shining through


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

It's Bild, so take it with a grain of salt, but it's not out of the question that Favre will be sacked at some point and we'll look for replacements. I don't buy that Kovac would join Dortmund so soon after Bayern sacks him, nor do I buy that Rangnick is actually a candidate. Seems like Schmidt with an outside chance that Pochettino agrees to take the job.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Hertha will sack Covic soon. Or rather they should. Failed experiment.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> It's Bild, so take it with a grain of salt, but it's not out of the question that Favre will be sacked at some point and we'll look for replacements. I don't buy that Kovac would join Dortmund so soon after Bayern sacks him, nor do I buy that Rangnick is actually a candidate. Seems like Schmidt with an outside chance that Pochettino agrees to take the job.





Apparently Pochettino is not a candidate because he doesn't speak any German. Not a good reason to exclude him. But there's a strong chance he doesn't want to go to Dortmund anyway.


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> Apparently Pochettino is not a candidate because he doesn't speak any German. Not a good reason to exclude him. But there's a strong chance he doesn't want to go to Dortmund anyway.




Yeah, that screams "well I never wanted to go out with you either!"


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Good his options are getting less and less. By next week he’s posing a thumbs up next to a barca badge.


----------



## cgf

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Good his options are getting less and less. By next week he’s posing a thumbs up next to a barca badge.




Have to assume that he's waiting to see if Union gives him a call. Once he realizes that we're good; I'm sure he'll start to consider lamer teams like Barca


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

I think language is as good a reason as any for a manager who relies on motivation as a major factor. If Klopp had to rely on a translator at Liverpool hed be f***ed.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

It's a legitimate reason but there are ways around it, plus he would learn in the long run. Either way good news.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

The whole squad speaks English.


----------



## Bon Esprit

If you want to play with the big boys you have to step away from this "German teams need a German speaking coach". Mainz 05 or Augsburg can do this, but not a team like Bayern or Dortmnd, It limits your options drastically. It the same with this stupid Canadiens' (my hockey team) attitude to have a French coach. Plain and simple stupid.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

I disagree. If Pep had actually learned German like he initially said he would, he may still be at Bayern. Its not just about giving instructions to players they understand, thats easy. Its about the tone, the ability to get the jokes, references etc. and not just with the players but the club staff, the media and the fans. If you dont speak the language, you ll always be the outsider - cant be an outsider and run the show.

Klopp is an extremely charming and likable fellow but its extremely doubtful this would have been fully appreciated by the media and fans in England if he hadnt been able to joke and “be himself” in the language they understand. Ive worked in multinational corporations for years and language is a common reason for people to flame out but also for performance issues in general.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Every major company in in Germany speaks English in the upper management, because it's necessary. If Germans will be major players in international football, they'll have to learn.
The generation of Hoeness, Watzke will die out in the near future.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Half the squads at Bayern and Dortmund probably are not fluent in German. 

I get the point about the requirements being more than only the players in the team, but you are probably never going to get a situation where the coach can communicate great with all the players, all the staff, all the media. That’s the way club football is, unless you coach in a league that doesn’t allow foreign players or coaches.


----------



## Deficient Mode

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> I disagree. If Pep had actually learned German like he initially said he would, he may still be at Bayern. Its not just about giving instructions to players they understand, thats easy. Its about the tone, the ability to get the jokes, references etc. and not just with the players but the club staff, the media and the fans. If you dont speak the language, you ll always be the outsider - cant be an outsider and run the show.




This is such a superfluous part of the job. Media and fan relations are extremely unimportant next to what goes on on the field, and I doubt a majority of Dortmund's fan base shares your culturally protectionist attitude.

Dortmund should be thrilled if they found a manager who lasted three successful years as Guardiola did in Bayern. Especially midseason with the dearth of good candidates available.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Plenty of cases of players and coaches failing due to cultural isolation not just in Germany. It doesn’t have to fail but its a risk. Plenty of good German speaking managers out there for what its worth.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Klinsmän is back in business.
Covic nicht mehr Hertha-Trainer - Klinsmann übernimmt

I like the Hertha/Klinsmann combination. I don't like both. lol


----------



## Lambo

Bon Esprit said:


> Klinsmän is back in business.
> Covic nicht mehr Hertha-Trainer - Klinsmann übernimmt
> 
> I like the Hertha/Klinsmann combination. I don't like both. lol



Then where is his residence?


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Typical Hertha move...flashy name but little reason to believe it will actually work out. They were discussing him becoming a member of the board just a few weeks ago...so maybe its just that Klinsi wants to live in Berlin for a while..


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Typical Hertha move...flashy name but little reason to believe it will actually work out. They were discussing him becoming a member of the board just a few weeks ago...so maybe its just that Klinsi wants to live in Berlin for a while..



The main piece might be Nouri (ex Werder coach IIRC). Klinsmann will be Hertha's version of Poldi.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

You mean he will be Hertha’s version of himself with the Nationalelf?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

That’ll be funny to watch unfold.


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> You mean he will be Hertha’s version of himself with the Nationalelf?



Right.

Andreas Köpke and Arne Friedrich are joining the coaching staff, too. Hertha is a rich club it seems.
Klinsmann holt Arne Friedrich und Andreas Köpke


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Farke is now the name being talked about to replace Favre.


----------



## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Farke is now the name being talked about to replace Favre.



Will one letter really make that much of a difference though?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Farke is now the name being talked about to replace Favre.




Yes please


----------



## Deficient Mode

Hertha being relegated while Union stay up would be good, IMO.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I think they have a chance to be relegated if they keep Klinsmann more than a few months. For such a good player in his day, he doesn’t coach tactics, at all.

That was a good character win for Dortmund today against a team we always struggle against. Who knew that all that was needed for the team to play better was to play big Zags?


----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I think they have a chance to be relegated if they keep Klinsmann more than a few months. For such a good player in his day, he doesn’t coach tactics, at all.
> 
> That was a good character win for Dortmund today against a team we always struggle against. Who knew that all that was needed for the team to play better was to play big Zags?



Klinsmann was never a coach/manager and he will never be. Nouri is the man.


----------



## Lambo

Bayern lost 1:2 vs. Leverkusen. I now hope that the "canonisation" of Mr Flick will now end. That was silly anyway.


----------



## Albatros

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I think they have a chance to be relegated if they keep Klinsmann more than a few months. For such a good player in his day, he doesn’t coach tactics, at all.




Doesn't really matter when he has someone that does.


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> Hertha being relegated while Union stay up would be good, IMO.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Oh look, both Borussias win.
Freiburg can't stop winning , too. Good stuff.


----------



## les Habs

Big win for Gladbach. A long way to go though.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Watch Leipzig btw. They are legit.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Leipzig are legit pieces of shit. But they have played a pleasant style ever since promotion.


----------



## Albatros

The title race is theirs to lose now, Leipzig's dominance might be the new normal.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Watch Leipzig btw. They are legit.




They'll run out of steam. First season contending for a title, and they look like they'll be moving to the next round in UCL.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Very nice of Favre to bring on Goetze and Dahoud in garbage time of a game that was over instead of giving debuts to Morey and Reyna.


----------



## bluesfan94

Albatros said:


> The title race is theirs to lose now, Leipzig's dominance might be the new normal.



They’re not even top of the table.


----------



## Albatros

It'll be a small miracle if they're not soon, the best team and have scored 22 goals in their five league matches since October so the form is there too. Gladbach has been doing a good job snatching points, but they're not on par.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Let’s see where Leipzig are after the Dortmund game.


----------



## Power Man

Algerian homer mode activated :



BENSEBAINIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII


----------



## Lambo

Congrats Gladbach! This Bundesliga season makes fun. Now the FC Bayern team pays their price for the bad behaviour towards their former coach Kovac.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Power Man said:


> Algerian homer mode activated :
> 
> 
> 
> BENSEBAINIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII



You need balls to shoot that penalty kick in extra time. Good he scored twice so I understand how his name is pronounced. LOL.


----------



## Power Man

Bon Esprit said:


> You need balls to shoot that penalty kick in extra time. Good he scored twice so I understand how his name is pronounced. LOL.



Yeah I think his experience in big game penalty shootouts- French Cup Final and AFCON 1/4 final - helped with his confidence


----------



## les Habs

The BL race is by far the most interesting of the big leagues this season. When you consider the clubs involved, the rivalries and how close it surely really is it should have plenty of angles.


----------



## Bon Esprit

les Habs said:


> The BL race is by far the most interesting of the big leagues this season. When you consider the clubs involved, the rivalries and how close it surely really is it should have plenty of angles.



Imagine Schalke had won yesterday.


----------



## cgf

What. Is. Happening.


----------



## Bon Esprit

cgf said:


> What. Is. Happening.



Congrats, cgf, they are better than expected.

In other news: After Paderborn's last minte goal vs. Werder Köln is last in the standings. Only Poldi can save them. Bremen are a huge disappointment so far.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Oh boy, Witsel got hurt. At home...
Häuslicher Unfall: Witsel fehlt dem BVB bis Jahresende


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Thats a bad Wits.


----------



## Deficient Mode

les Habs said:


> The BL race is by far the most interesting of the big leagues this season. When you consider the clubs involved, the rivalries and how close it surely really is it should have plenty of angles.




Also because the two teams that actually play good football are currently at the top of the table instead of the two richest teams. Not sure how long Bayern will stay down but you still love to see it.


----------



## Cassano

Deficient Mode said:


> Also because the two teams that actually play good football are currently at the top of the table instead of the two richest teams. Not sure how long Bayern will stay down but you still love to see it.



aren't RB FC rich?


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Extremely


----------



## Deficient Mode

Cassano said:


> aren't RB FC rich?




Well behind Dortmund in revenue and the amount spent on their team though.


----------



## Bon Esprit

No comments on the gameday, yet? Probably because the top teams won and there were no real surprises as of now. Werder's 1:6 at Bayern is concerning. On the other hand, they have a lot of injured players. not funny for them. Effzeh won vs. Leverkusen. This might calm the fans a bit.


----------



## Bon Esprit

So, on tuesday we'll have a nice showdown between Dortmund and Leipzig. Should be fun.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I don't know why anyone thought Gladbach would compete for the title this season. Does anyone remember last season? They were closest to Dortmund right before the winter break, and they didn't even finish in the UCL places. Rose is good manager and might be able to take them into the UCL this season, but as bad as the league is this season, they will not be competing for the title in the final few weeks.

Leipzig, on the other hand, could. They have a deep squad, so that could mitigate some concerns about still being in three competitions, but their players have never had much to play for into the last few months of the season. Will they get fatigued? They could be helped out a lot by being eliminated from the Pokal and UCL next round.

I agree with Bon Esprit. Tuesday will be interesting. I feel like it could go either way. Leipzig is playing much better football than Dortmund and I think needs the mental cushion going into the winter break to have a real shot at winning the title. On the other hand, Dortmund losing at home is a rarity and I still think Favre is under pressure to win games or lose his job. If Dortmund loses, and then drops more points before the winter break, he could be out of a job, so there should be urgency there. As a Dortmund fan, a win on Tuesday would be huge. I don't know how many of you are golfers or golf fans, but I feel like we've done a pretty good job this season with how we've scored (points-wise), despite playing terribly. Improving the quality of our "bad form" has been the biggest development so far this season.


----------



## Albatros

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I don't know why anyone thought Gladbach would compete for the title this season. Does anyone remember last season? They were closest to Dortmund right before the winter break, and they didn't even finish in the UCL places. Rose is good manager and might be able to take them into the UCL this season, but as bad as the league is this season, they will not be competing for the title in the final few weeks.




Maybe not, but Wolfsburg has the best defense in the league and failing to break that in my eyes does not yet indicate poor form. Others will continue to lose some points too.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I don't know why anyone thought Gladbach would compete for the title this season. Does anyone remember last season? They were closest to Dortmund right before the winter break, and they didn't even finish in the UCL places. Rose is good manager and might be able to take them into the UCL this season, but as bad as the league is this season, they will not be competing for the title in the final few weeks.




Probably because all the other top teams have been quite bad. The 75 point pace that Leipzig are on would be the lowest to win the Bundesliga in 9 years. They will also have fewer fixtures than other top teams now that they've been eliminated from the Europa League and the Pokal.

I doubt any team will be close to Bayern at the end of the year, really.


----------



## Bon Esprit

WTF Nübel, you a damn idiot!


----------



## Bon Esprit

So, it's Bayern-Chelsea and BvB-PSG and RB-Tottenham


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bon Esprit said:


> WTF Nübel, you a damn idiot!






The idiot got a 4 game suspension.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Werder-Mainz 0:5. WOW

Mario Basler (yes, THE Mario Basler) said on sunday BVB want Kohfeldt to become their next coach. I believe it when I see it.


----------



## Halladay

That was a beautiful team goal with Brandt finishing.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Brandt is absurdly good. I love him dearly.


----------



## Savi

Yeah that was a sick move


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

That Brandt goal was exquisite. One of the best you’ll see all season that wasn’t a long strike.

The end of that half shows the Favre inclination to turtle with a lead. Good thing Buerki’s been in such great form of late. Aside from that, that was a great half. The 3-4-3 has been working wonders for us in recent weeks.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Savi said:


> Yeah that was a sick move




Do you think Thorgan is finally better than Eden? For me, he’s been the big surprise of the season so far for Dortmund with how well he’s played.


----------



## Savi

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Do you think Thorgan is finally better than Eden?




Oh no, no no

edit: Burki


----------



## Halladay

Werner gifted another goal.


----------



## Savi

Wtf are Dortmund doing


----------



## Deficient Mode

Akanji is playing much better lately

Pretty typical for Dortmund to give up those goals though


----------



## PansCyans

Holy, this 2nd half is crazy.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

If Favre isn’t out after this game, this club has zero ambition. Same stuff as last season. Easily the worst coach of all the top clubs. This result is his fault. He hasn’t learned from last season.

Why didn’t Dortmund sub Reus in late needing a goal? Strange not to use him today.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Savi said:


> Oh no, no no
> 
> edit: Burki




I’ll take your word for it, but Eden is getting fat in Madrid counting his money. Done nothing since arriving in Madrid. Thorgan, on the other hand, keeps improving. Maybe if he keeps improving he’ll be better in another season or two.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Not too disappointed. I thought Dortmund played pretty well, and the two biggest scapegoats (Brandt and Bürki) had otherwise very good games. Turnover avoidance isn't Brandt's strong suit but they're playing so much better offensively since moving him to central midfield that it's hard to complain about the occasional mistake like that one. They're averaging 3.2 goals per match in 5 matches since moving Brandt to the 8 after averaging 1.9 goals per match in their previous 18 competitive matches this season. Not all of that is due to Brandt but really some support for my frequent rants about how their weak play with the ball in central midfield - and how poor they were at attacking centrally with pace and control - was the primary reason for their underwhelming offensive display this year. I think their defense has generally been good in that stretch, too - the turnovers today aside.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> If Favre isn’t out after this game, this club has zero ambition. Same stuff as last season. Easily the worst coach of all the top clubs. This result is his fault. He hasn’t learned from last season.
> 
> Why didn’t Dortmund sub Reus in late needing a goal? Strange not to use him today.




Reus played the whole game...


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> Reus played the whole game...




Thats unfortunately the point.

I completely disagree with you about this game. It was the same thing as last season. We play our brand of football, we play well, score goals, take the lead, outplay the other team badly, and then Favre decides we need to be defensive, something that doesn't fit with this team. Immediately, we concede twice. The causes are irrelevant because this team isn't suited to defend. We finally get the third goal, and once again he decides to play defensive.

Right when he put on Piszczek for Sancho, I knew we'd concede again. This team cannot hold leads by defending. It's not our game. Why are you taking off your best attacker for a RB? And if he was going to take off a player on either side to play defensive, it should've been Guerreiro, who didn't clear the ball on the winning goal. He's the biggest defensive liability in the team. Favre finally decides to take him off when Leipzig had tied the game. Favre got his subs wrong. Nagelsmann's subs worked because he's a very good manager. Favre's subs enforced the wrong mentality in his team that we see so many times is why Dortmund under Favre will not be able to be a top team in Europe.


----------



## Bure80

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> If Favre isn’t out after this game, this club has zero ambition. Same stuff as last season. Easily the worst coach of all the top clubs. This result is his fault. He hasn’t learned from last season.
> 
> Why didn’t Dortmund sub Reus in late needing a goal? Strange not to use him today.




If you give away gifts like the first two RB goals its hard to win. This draw is near zero Favres fault. We can talk about subs but thats not the reason Dortmund didnt win.
This has to do with experience. In a few years, hopefully Brandt will not play such a high risk pass in the own half.


----------



## Albatros

Maybe experience is a factor, but Leipzig has a significantly younger squad and seems to suffer less of such issues.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Thats unfortunately the point.
> 
> I completely disagree with you about this game. It was the same thing as last season. We play our brand of football, we play well, score goals, take the lead, outplay the other team badly, and then Favre decides we need to be defensive, something that doesn't fit with this team. Immediately, we concede twice. The causes are irrelevant because this team isn't suited to defend. We finally get the third goal, and once again he decides to play defensive.
> 
> Right when he put on Piszczek for Sancho, I knew we'd concede again. This team cannot hold leads by defending. It's not our game. Why are you taking off your best attacker for a RB? And if he was going to take off a player on either side to play defensive, it should've been Guerreiro, who didn't clear the ball on the winning goal. He's the biggest defensive liability in the team. Favre finally decides to take him off when Leipzig had tied the game. Favre got his subs wrong. Nagelsmann's subs worked because he's a very good manager. Favre's subs enforced the wrong mentality in his team that we see so many times is why Dortmund under Favre will not be able to be a top team in Europe.




Sancho was limping off the field... think that had a lot to do with it. 

Again, they've been scoring a lot more lately than they were in the season and a quarter before that. They played offensively in the second half of this game, too.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Albatros said:


> Maybe experience is a factor, but Leipzig has a significantly younger squad and seems to suffer less of such issues.




They made more than their fair share of bad mistakes and turnovers in that game as well


----------



## Albatros

Still they have managed very solid 90-minute performances through the season home and away while with Dortmund it's more of a roller coaster.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Albatros said:


> Still they have managed very solid 90-minute performances through the season home and away while with Dortmund it's more of a roller coaster.




I think the bigger and more frequent issue for Dortmund is the away games where they do nothing offensively than the games where they get a first half lead then choke it. There were tangible reasons why the offense wasn't working in those games, and while they haven't played tough road games in this stretch, they've certainly been far better at generating chances than they were before.


----------



## Albatros

In part that's what I mean, Leipzig has lost one lead all season (1:1 vs Wolfsburg) which is pretty remarkable for such a young team.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Albatros said:


> Maybe experience is a factor, but Leipzig has a significantly younger squad and seems to suffer less of such issues.




It's the managers. Nagelsmann is very good, Favre isn't a top level manager. Switch the managers, and Dortmund is leading the league by at least five points, while Leipzig would be competing for 3rd or 4th.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> Sancho was limping off the field... think that had a lot to do with it.
> 
> Again, they've been scoring a lot more lately than they were in the season and a quarter before that. They played offensively in the second half of this game, too.




If Sancho's limping off, you can bring on Goetze or Alcacer. Or at least bring on Schulz and shift Guerreiro to LW because that fullback for winger sub would make a lot more sense. The sub signaled the intent to win the game by playing defensive.

Dortmund played offensively, at times, in the second half. When we needed a goal, of course we played offensively. When we didn't need a goal, Favre let up, and this team can't hold a lead. We lost two leads. One of them was a two goal lead. It's exactly like last season. We haven't had as many chances this season to lose leads because the team doesn't play as well from the start, but the same ability is there because the team hasn't improved much defensively, and Favre still has the same inclination to play defensively once the team gets a lead. 

I'd like, for once, to see what we can do playing offensively the whole game. I think in this weak Bundesliga, this year, that we'd win the league pretty easily. It might not be good enough to have success in Europe, but the Bundesliga is so weak, yet we play down to the league most weeks. We finally play well offensively for one half, and throw it away with the same finish to the game. Same mistakes as last season.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bure80 said:


> If you give away gifts like the first two RB goals its hard to win. This draw is near zero Favres fault. We can talk about subs but thats not the reason Dortmund didnt win.
> This has to do with experience. In a few years, hopefully Brandt will not play such a high risk pass in the own half.




You are missing the point. I don't blame Favre for individual errors of players. I blame Favre for knowing this team has for years made individual errors by the players, yet he still thinks he's going to turn us into a team that can hold onto leads by playing defensively. Thats exactly why we didn't win the title last year. Too many games in the second half of the season where we'd drop points from a winning position. It's as if he completely hasn't learned from last year's collapse. 

The experience stuff is nonsense. They signed Hummels and Schulz for experience. Our defense was supposed to become more experienced and as a byproduct, more solid. It hasn't. The team has too many offensively inclined players, too many younger players that play the majority of the minutes, it's not a very physical team. This team is not suited to play defensively.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Dortmund played offensively, at times, in the second half. When we needed a goal, of course we played offensively. When we didn't need a goal, Favre let up, and this team can't hold a lead. We lost two leads. One of them was a two goal lead. It's exactly like last season. We haven't had as many chances this season to lose leads because the team doesn't play as well from the start, but the same ability is there because the team hasn't improved much defensively, and Favre still has the same inclination to play defensively once the team gets a lead.
> 
> I'd like, for once, to see what we can do playing offensively the whole game. I think in this weak Bundesliga, this year, that we'd win the league pretty easily. It might not be good enough to have success in Europe, but the Bundesliga is so weak, yet we play down to the league most weeks. We finally play well offensively for one half, and throw it away with the same finish to the game. Same mistakes as last season.




I don't know how you can watch this game and say they stopped playing in the second half like they have sometimes. Or not see obviously positive signs that they didn't "play down to the league" against Fortuna or Mainz, or that they won both away matches they played over this stretch, giving up very few quality chances against, after getting a total of 6 points from their 6 prior away matches this year. And we have something tangible to link this to - the switch to a back 3 and introduction of Brandt in midfield - so it doesn't look like just a random hot stretch.

They aren't a perfect team suddenly but there are plenty of indications that they're playing better and at least clearly outplaying bad Bundesliga teams.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bild reports (behind paywall, but Focus has it on their free site) Sane to Bayern this winter and Hertha are interested in Götze. Of course they are, but is Götze interested in Hertha? I doubt that.

Beim BVB ist Götze nur noch Reservist - jetzt sollen Klinsmann und Hertha BSC dran sein

Alsi Chelsea is interested in Bailey. He wasn't very good recently, so I would sell him, if the price is right.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Bild reports (behind paywall, but Focus has it on their free site) Sane to Bayern this winter and Hertha are interested in Götze. Of course they are, but is Götze interested in Hertha? I doubt that.
> 
> Beim BVB ist Götze nur noch Reservist - jetzt sollen Klinsmann und Hertha BSC dran sein
> 
> Alsi Chelsea is interested in Bailey. He wasn't very good recently, so I would sell him, if the price is right.




Goetze said he’s leaving Dortmund, if Favre returns. Favre probably won’t return, but I don’t know how you can have contracts negotiations with a player when he stipulates that. If you then agree to a contract extension with him, you are telling the outside world that your coach is done after the season.

I suspect where Goetze plays next season will go all the way down to May or June, unless Favre manages to lose his job here in the next week. I think it’s more likely that he’d play somewhere like Inter or England than somewhere else in the Bundesliga. But I also wouldn’t rule out that he remains at Dortmund. Favre will go no later than the end of the season. I don’t think management is unhappy with his play, but their coach doesn’t rate him, so what can anyone do? They aren’t going to demand that Favre uses him.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Goetze said he’s leaving Dortmund, if Favre returns. Favre probably won’t return, but I don’t know how you can have contracts negotiations with a player when he stipulates that. If you then agree to a contract extension with him, you are telling the outside world that your coach is done after the season.
> 
> I suspect where Goetze plays next season will go all the way down to May or June, unless Favre manages to lose his job here in the next week. I think it’s more likely that he’d play somewhere like* Inter or England *than somewhere else in the Bundesliga. But I also wouldn’t rule out that he remains at Dortmund. Favre will go no later than the end of the season. I don’t think management is unhappy with his play, but their coach doesn’t rate him, so what can anyone do? They aren’t going to demand that Favre uses him.




The bolded I'd think, too, but not top tier "England". Look what "special player"Max Meyer is doing at Palace.
Warum Max Meyer bei Crystal Palace keine Rolle mehr spielt

EPL clubs aren't idiots, they don't take damaged goods from Bundesliga. He didn't make it at Bayern and he didn't make it at BVB. Italy might be his destination. Inter, Lazio, Roma etc.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I think it depends on the EPL destination. Probably not Man City, probably not Spurs, probably not Chelsea. Liverpool could be an exception to the top clubs because of Klopp. Are Arsenal and Man United even top teams anymore? And then the rest below the top clubs all are options, depending on what he'd be paid, like you mentioned with Meyer.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I think it depends on the EPL destination. Probably not Man City, probably not Spurs, probably not Chelsea. Liverpool could be an exception to the top clubs because of Klopp. Are Arsenal and Man United even top teams anymore? And then the rest below the top clubs all are options, depending on what he'd be paid, like you mentioned with Meyer.




Yes, maybe Arsenal or Utd. They aren't top tier in EPL right now. I'd think some italian site is more possible.


----------



## PansCyans

Bayern pull it out at the death with two goals in time added on


----------



## Deficient Mode

Bon Esprit said:


> The bolded I'd think, too, but not top tier "England". Look what "special player"Max Meyer is doing at Palace.
> Warum Max Meyer bei Crystal Palace keine Rolle mehr spielt
> 
> EPL clubs aren't idiots, they don't take damaged goods from Bundesliga. He didn't make it at Bayern and he didn't make it at BVB. Italy might be his destination. Inter, Lazio, Roma etc.




Goetze made it at Bayern and definitely made it (twice) at BVB. Pretty common for even very talented players to fall out of favor on deep teams at times. It's happened to a bunch of the experienced players on BVB. Almost any player in the world will struggle in a bad situation with a coach who doesn't suit them. That goes for Meyer too. It would be nice if we didn't have to talk about it as proof that they aren't good players when that happens.


----------



## Chimaera

Grujic can play.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Deficient Mode said:


> Goetze made it at Bayern and definitely made it (twice) at BVB. Pretty common for even very talented players to fall out of favor on deep teams at times. It's happened to a bunch of the experienced players on BVB. Almost any player in the world will struggle in a bad situation with a coach who doesn't suit them. That goes for Meyer too. It would be nice if we didn't have to talk about it as proof that they aren't good players when that happens.




There seem to be two Götzes. One who has done nothing since his WC final goal and one who appears to be in the running for the Ballon D’Or every season. The latter one however only appears to be visible to a select group of people on internet message boards.


----------



## gary69

Finally a better than expected result for Köln, although Frankfurt's 3rd choice keeper was a bit shaky.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> There seem to be two Götzes. One who has done nothing since his WC final goal and one who appears to be in the running for the Ballon D’Or every season. The latter one however only appears to be visible to a select group of people on internet message boards.




There are plenty of Dortmund fans that feel like he's done well for us. It's a more common opinion among Dortmund fans than saying he hasn't been a success at Dortmund. The outside fans who don't follow the club closely might see stints on the bench or out of position, and use that to say he hasn't played well.

I don't even know if Favre thinks he's played poorly, but Favre refuses to use Reus anywhere other than centrally, even though all the evidence there is suggests his best football is played out wide. So there's not much room for Goetze in the lineup, unless its as a false nine, which he doesn't play well because he's not a player who should be playing with his back to goal. Favre also refuses to use Goetze as a deeper midfielder. And unfortunately, Reus is immune from getting benched because he's the captain. Otherwise, a good coach would have Goetze in his position months ago because Reus has been terrible this season.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Götze has played well at times, sure, but he will go down in history as a failure post-2014 WC. A decent above average BuLi player is not what he was made out to be. People still think hed go to an elite team on the back of that output? Only on reputation, only on reputation.


----------



## Deficient Mode

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> There seem to be two Götzes. *One who has done nothing since his WC final goal *and one who appears to be in the running for the Ballon D’Or every season. The latter one however only appears to be visible to a select group of people on internet message boards.




Cute.



TheMoreYouKnow said:


> *Götze has played well at times*, sure, but he will go down in history as a failure post-2014 WC. A decent above average BuLi player is not what he was made out to be. People still think hed go to an elite team on the back of that output? Only on reputation, only on reputation.




Ahh the backtrack. Some people understand that the perception that any player - even a Ballon D'Or winner - "puts a team on his back" in a weak link sport like this is almost always a fabrication on the part of fans who long for heroes and inspiring narratives that don't fit with what actually happens on the field. Many of these same fans also mistake running hard and fast with having heart and "carrying a team", and see a player with vastly diminished running ability as "doing nothing."

All I remember is this same nonsense about him being a useless player was circulating at the same time last year in the same circles of old reactionary fans, and he ended with one of the better per minute marks of goals+assists in the league last year once he finally got on the field regularly even though he's more suited to playing in central midfield than as an attacker at this stage of his career. Far from "damaged goods."


----------



## Bon Esprit

I didn't want to start the next "Is Goetze still a good football player" discussion. I guess we are all sick of it.

I posted a Bild speculation regarding Hertha's possible interest in acquiring him. It's not like rumours were reported PSG, City, LFC, Real or Juve are interested in his services. It is friggin Hertha Berlin. 13th in the league.
Goetze's contract is up next summer, how are the odds BVB will re-sign him or he will re-sign with Dortmund?

Yes, DM, I think he is "damaged goods".


----------



## Deficient Mode

Bon Esprit said:


> I didn't want to start the next "Is Goetze still a good football player" discussion. I guess we are all sick of it.
> 
> I posted a Bild speculation regarding Hertha's possible interest in acquiring him. It's not like rumours were reported PSG, City, LFC, Real or Juve are interested in his services. It is friggin Hertha Berlin. 13th in the league.
> Goetze's contract is up next summer, how are the odds BVB will re-sign him or he will re-sign with Dortmund?
> 
> Yes, DM, I think he is "damaged goods".




Money is the main reason he won't be re-signed. Dortmund management are asking him to take a significant pay cut and he doesn't want to take it. BVB are right that Goetze isn't important enough to their current manager to merit being one of the most highly paid players on the team (I believe only Reus makes more money), and Goetze doesn't want to take a pay cut. That is a far cry from proving he's "damaged goods" - he's simply overpaid given the health problems and a play style that doesn't suit him perfectly. He's coming off a very good year.

I'm mostly irritated when the old fans here pretend that the rest of the world besides PB and I agree that Goetze is washed up. Perhaps the media you pay attention to talk of nothing else, but a significant portion of the BVB fans and media that I'm exposed to are much happier with his performances when healthy.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> Money is the main reason he won't be re-signed. Dortmund management are asking him to take a significant pay cut and he doesn't want to take it.




It's been reported that this is no longer a sticking point in the negotiation. It's Favre. Goetze doesn't want to re-sign, and not play.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> It's been reported that this is no longer a sticking point in the negotiation. It's Favre. Goetze doesn't want to re-sign, and not play.




I guess it'd be hard to blame him. Favre is now playing with one fewer attacking player on the field at the same time as they added Hazard and Brandt (even though he has now settled into a midfield role). Rotating players in, unless forced by injuries, is not Favre's strength at all. Goetze has been treated with an unjustifiably far shorter leash than their other attacking players when they struggle.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> I guess it'd be hard to blame him. Favre is now playing with one fewer attacking player on the field at the same time as they added Hazard and Brandt (even though he has now settled into a midfield role). Rotating players in, unless forced by injuries, is not Favre's strength at all. Goetze has been treated with an unjustifiably far shorter leash than their other attacking players when they struggle.




I tend to think that if we continue with the 3-4-3, the best alignment is to have Goetze as the main back up to Brandt as the 8, and rotating with Alcacer as the 9. If we sign Haaland or a striker, you can add that player to the mix as the 9. On the wings, we should have a three player rotation between Sancho, Hazard and Reus for two spots. At times, Guerreiro and Hakimi could fill in there, as well, but they are best suited as wingbacks, if we are using the 3-4-3. And if for some reason we need to play a little more defensive in midfield during the course of a game or from the start, Delaney or Weigl can take the place of Brandt or Goetze as the 8.


----------



## gary69

So, Götze starts as the main striker tonight. Last change to make a claim for a regular starting spot, in the shop window or whatever, interesting to see how it works out.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Another nice half from Dortmund. They're so much more dangerous when they make fast, decisive combinations in buildup. Hakimi's speed is very difficult to deal with when they're making those combinations down the right side. Nice finish by Mr. Damaged Goods, too. Definitely think he can continue to be a functional part of this team going forward.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I think this is our best lineup right now. Swap out Witsel for Weigl when Witsel is fit. Hazard was such a great signing. One of the best signings we’ve made in years. He replaces the role Pulisic played, and does it with better technique and tactical sense.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> *I think this is our best lineup right now*. Swap out Witsel for Weigl when Witsel is fit. Hazard was such a great signing. One of the best signings we’ve made in years. He replaces the role Pulisic played, and does it with better technique and tactical sense.




And they immediately sub in two of your favorites - Bruun Larsen and Piszczek - as you say that


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Sack Favre and be done with it


----------



## Deficient Mode

What a collapse. Hoffenheim scored on their only two real chances of the game and Dortmund wasted wide open chance after chance because the last pass was a little off.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

What applied on Tuesday applies today. We saw this all of the second half of last season. Until Favre is gone, this club lacks ambition.


----------



## Bon Esprit

There are some very important games this weekend. And I think the most important are ADüsseldorf vs. Union and Köln vs. Bremen. Also Schalke-Freiburg.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Of course Bayern with two late goals. Zirkzee again. TBH I never heard of this guy before last game.
Werder is in deep trouble.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Of course Bayern with two late goals. Zirkzee again. TBH I never heard of this guy before last game.
> Werder is in deep trouble.




Thats because no one ever hears about Bayern academy players. Bayern doesn't allow that to happen because they never reach the first team, yet they have an academy with some very talented players. It's a shame they never use those players, despite having a very small squad of senior players. 

Zirkzee is a very good young player. He's one of the best in his generation from the Netherlands. I saw him play in a U16 tournament two and a half years ago in Japan. He was at least one of the three best players at the tournament, and probably the best player at the tournament. It was clear he was going to be a very good professional footballer. Bayern also signed another of those three best players at the tournament that I mentioned, Taylor Booth, whose another young Bayern player you'll start hearing more about if they ever use their academy players in bigger numbers. I guess Bayern saw the same tournament as I did. 

But I think if Bayern is willing to use some academy players, they now have a good replacement if Lewandowski gets injured. Zirkzee is better than Fiete-Arp, the guy they signed from Hamburg.


----------



## Albatros




----------



## Bon Esprit

Nübel won't extend his contract at Schalke next summer
Transfer-News: Keine Verlängerung auf Schalke: Weg frei für Nübel-Wechsel zum FC Bayern?

Sucks for them, but I'm still not buying the Nübel to Bayern rumours unless Neuer retires.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Nübel won't extend his contract at Schalke next summer
> Transfer-News: Keine Verlängerung auf Schalke: Weg frei für Nübel-Wechsel zum FC Bayern?
> 
> Sucks for them, but I'm still not buying the Nübel to Bayern rumours unless Neuer retires.




Leipzig or the rest of the continent.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bon Esprit said:


> Nübel won't extend his contract at Schalke next summer
> Transfer-News: Keine Verlängerung auf Schalke: Weg frei für Nübel-Wechsel zum FC Bayern?
> 
> Sucks for them, but I'm still not buying the Nübel to Bayern rumours unless Neuer retires.




Nübel to Bayern next summer is confirmed.
Bayern statt Barça: Warum Nübel nach München wechselt

So Bayern fills a hole in goal that they don't have. I still don't understand that move.

Bayern need support on defence and Lewa could need a buddy, too.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Stuttgart fire Tim Walter after just 6 months. They are 3rd in 2. Bundesliga. 4 of 5 classless Subbans.
Funkel stays at Düsseldorf for another year if they stay in 1. Bundesliga. 2 of 5 Subbans.
Pele Wollitz takes over Magdeburg just after they fired Stefan Krämer yesterday. Team captain Beck doesn't understand why Krämer was sacked.
3 of 5 Subbans.


----------



## gary69

Bon Esprit said:


> Nübel to Bayern next summer is confirmed.
> Bayern statt Barça: Warum Nübel nach München wechselt
> 
> So Bayern fills a hole in goal that they don't have. I still don't understand that move.
> 
> Bayern need support on defence and Lewa could need a buddy, too.




So I take this as Bayern have concluded that Fruchtl will never be a good enough to be a starter for them? He should leave then, if he has ambitions to ever play as a starter in Bundesliga.


----------



## Bon Esprit

So according to various sources Hertha BSC are interested in acquiring the following players this winter:

Mario Götze
Julian Draxler
Granit Xhaka
Kevin Strootmann
Santiago Ascacibar

Vom VfB zur Hertha? Ascacibar steht auf Klinsmanns Liste

The money comes from here:

Lars Windhorst – Wikipedia

Ende Juni 2019 wurde bekannt, dass sich Windhorst über Tennor mit 37,5 % an der _Hertha BSC GmbH & Co. KGaA_ beteiligt.[27] Im November 2019 erhöhte er seine Anteile auf 49,9 % und ist nun mit 225 Mio. Euro beim Berliner Bundesligisten beteiligt.

Cool story, Klinsmann.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

I asked in the transfer thread should've probably asked here too... since its likely Ascacibar goes there, I see there in a regulation battle how good a move would it be for him trying to resurrect his career?


----------



## Bon Esprit

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I asked in the transfer thread should've probably asked here too... since its likely Ascacibar goes there, I see there in a regulation battle how good a move would it be for him trying to resurrect his career?



There are 3 or 4 worse teams in the league. Hertha won't get relegegated.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Bon Esprit said:


> There are 3 or 4 worse teams in the league. Hertha won't get relegegated.



Is it a good environment?


----------



## Bon Esprit

I understand what Klindmann is trying to do. Berlin is the only Euro capital without any relevance in football. Rome has two. London has many´Madrid has a high end side and so on. Berlin hasn't (though cgf might think otherwise). They just got 225millions to spent from Windhorst. I just don't get the idea spending multiple millions on players mid season.


----------



## Lambo

Dortmund sign Haaland! 20-Millionen-"Schnäppchen": BVB gewinnt das Rennen um Haaland


----------



## Bon Esprit

Good for Dortmnd. Wasn't he linked with ManUtd? Anyway, maybe he can help them.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Hans Tilkowski passed away today. Wembley 66, DfB cup 64-65 for Dortmund, cup winners cup 65-66 vs LFC.

Hans Tilkowski: Viel mehr als der Torhüter beim Wembley-Tor


----------



## Lambo

R.I.P Hans


----------



## Bon Esprit

So, according to Bild, Götze and BvB will part ways this summer. BvB want to reduce his annual salary (10m) to 7m. He won't accept. His target might be Italy, preferably Inter. let's see if they bite this time. They reportedly were interested in his services last summer.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Seems like clubs like Barca and Man City would be lining up to secure a talent like Götze at the bargain rate of 10m a year.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I’ve read so many reports with different info that I’m not just going to believe it because Bild bills it as an exclusive report. I’ll wait until we have info from more reliable sources.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bundesliga continues tomorrow.

Important games will be the Schalke/Gladbach and the Düsseldorf/Bremen matches.


----------



## Bon Esprit

17yo Reyna will on BvB's roster tommorrow. Didn't another Reyna once played for Dortmnd? Must be his father.


----------



## DieSendungmitderMaus

Giuseppe Reina played for them but I doubt any relation


----------



## Bon Esprit

DieSendungmitderMaus said:


> Giuseppe Reina played for them but I doubt any relation



Oh yeah, same surname, different spelling. My bad.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Claudio played for Leverkusen and Wolfsburg, never Dortmund.

The club is hyping up Gio more than any young player we've had since Pulisic. Some are saying he's better than Pulisic. Having watched both extensively up until this age, Pulisic was a better footballer, Reyna had more tools. I think Pulisic was a lot better, actually. Reyna is very talented though, but I can't remember ever thinking he played up to his potential.

And once again, the attack looks so much worse with Reus back in. The club needs to do to him what they did to Schmelzer. He's not as bad as Schmelzer became as captain, but he's become backup quality.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Brandt going to save Favre's job. Unfortunate.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Favre got the message to change up the tactics in the winter break. Dortmund playing a different style of play today. Go down early because you can't defend the counter while you have all of the ball and get no good shots.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Nice goal from Haaland on one of his first touches in a Dortmund shirt.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Augsburg collapsing now. 

Throw on Reyna for the winner.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Too bad we wasted Sancho's Dortmund tenure with Favre as manager.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Reus is so bad. 

Put Reyna or Goetze in for Reus.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Haaland two goals already off the bench. 

Augbsurg has fallen apart completely.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Reyna debut.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Interesting choice by Augsburg to give Dortmund so much space to counterattack into when they were up 2 goals. Not sure I'd have done the same.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Haaland hat-trick off the bench on his debut.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Haaland hat-trick off the bench on his debut.




Pretty good


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

haaland damn


----------



## Putt Pirate

Haaland with the hatty. Goal machine.


----------



## Savant

Thank god Dortmund got Haaland instead of United. Thank you.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> Pretty good




Haaland and Aubameyang are the only Dortmund players to score a hat-trick on their debut. 

Both did it against Augsburg and wore #17.


----------



## les Habs

I think BVB are going to be in the title hunt. Sure you can say they were in it already, but I'm talking the long haul. Haaland was an excellent pickup and is really going to fire them down the stretch.

Actually if they can keep some of their younger guys and keep building on that foundation with more smart buys they could be the dominant side in the Bundesliga for some time. Of course they also could use a new manager.



Savant said:


> Thank god Dortmund got Haaland instead of United. Thank you.




You'll be repeating that quite a lot.


----------



## Power Man

Reyna and Haaland’s fathers were almost teammates in Man City


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

How is Palacios already suspended? Is it because of his red in Argentina?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

les Habs said:


> I think BVB are going to be in the title hunt. Sure you can say they were in it already, but I'm talking the long haul. Haaland was an excellent pickup and is really going to fire them down the stretch.
> 
> Actually if they can keep some of their younger guys and keep building on that foundation with more smart buys they could be the dominant side in the Bundesliga for some time. Of course they also could use a new manager.




We're going to sell Sancho in the summer. The same thing is always said that if we keep our players we'll be the dominant team in the league, and it never does. We can settle for competing for the title.

But we won't be in it this year. We'd need to probably not drop any points the rest of the season because Leipzig and Bayern are both ahead of us. Both teams are in good form. Each have only dropped points in one of their last five. And that won't happen, so more likely 3rd place. We are 7 points behind Leipzig, and it's effectively 8 due to goal differential. I can't imagine we'll be 8 points better than them the rest of the season. We have a better chance to win the Cup or make a run in the Champions League.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

You are more likely to win out in the BuLi than to win the CL.


----------



## Deficient Mode

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> You are more likely to win out in the BuLi than to win the CL.




No one said anything about winning the CL... "Making a run" means reaching the semifinals maybe.

I agree with PB. The talent on the team is exciting, but the turnover will be rapid, and when they played at a 60 point pace in the first half of the season it's hard to imagine the addition of another 19 year old for a couple years will vault them to a title much less to being a "dominant side for some time."


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

A CL run without hope of winning it is pointless. Its like Schalke making the QF a few years ago. Meant nothing.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Jadon Sancho


----------



## Havre

Haaland is decent.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Tough games upcoming for Leipzig and Bayern. Let's see if they can take full points. Dortmund did exactly what was needed with an easy win.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

First goal anyone would have scored. Second was a nice finish. He has the size, speed and instinct to be great, and it looks like hed be perfect for the English game. He ll be on the other side of the Channel by 2021/22 imo.


----------



## Havre

Far too early to tell. If he goes on like this he´ll end up in Spain is my guess. That is still a big if even for someone like Haaland.

First goal is obviously a bit random and quite easy, but he is alert. No coincidence that he is the one moving towards the ball. He will always score some of those goals that every big and strong forward will score (even Antonio at West Ham scores the odd goal just because he is big and quite fast), but if he can add a decent amount of poacher goals on top of that he will end up being something pretty special.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Leipzig loses at Frankfurt. The league race is going to get interesting. Their next two league games are against Gladbach and Bayern, so their three point lead on Bayern and four point lead on Dortmund could be gone after those games.


----------



## John Price




----------



## Eye of Ra

who is this guy


----------



## Power Man

Eye of Ra said:


> who is this guy





Eye of Ra said:


> who is this guy



Klopp?


----------



## Bon Esprit

Eye of Ra said:


> who is this guy



Typical Dortmund fan.

Schalke fans look loke this:


----------



## SJSharks72

Roman Fell said:


>




The guy is 19 years old with no one really doing much of anything around him. What do you expect?


----------



## Bon Esprit

Fortuna sacked Friedhelm Funkel.

Funkel said he will never coach another team again. Sad.

Ddorf just extended his contract til 2021 a month ago. Clowns!


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Neither is really surprising. Funkel is nearing 70. And its not the first time a coach surprisingly steers a club to promotion, keeps them up against all odds the first year and then gets fired when relegation looks likely in the next season. Always awkward though.


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Neither is really surprising. Funkel is nearing 70. And its not the first time a coach surprisingly steers a club to promotion, keeps them up against all odds the first year and then gets fired when relegation looks likely in the next season. Always awkward though.




Funkel is 66yo, a grandpa coach by today's standard. But you don't extend a coach just one month ago and then you think he's not good enough anymore four weeks later. That's stupid.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

It's what they always call 'the mechanisms of the business'. 

Funkel's a 'local boy' and a hero among their fans for what he accomplished, but at clubs like that the reality of it is that when they unexpectedly first get promoted, they are euphoric and act like it's the greatest thing ever and from there on out nothing can undo that accomplishment, but then a year passes and suddenly they in their heads start relying on Bundesliga football and start thinking in terms of 'master plans' that feature European football a few years down the road. And then they find themselves in last place and all of that is at risk. Loyalty, past achievement etc. goes all out the window as they desperately cling to the illusion of the big time success down the line.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Part of why Favre isn't good enough to manage at a top club is that he's too risk averse. He doesn't feel like he can stand up to big players. 

There was going to come a point where Haaland was going to go into the lineup, and Reus would have to come out, otherwise we'd be significantly sacrificing ability in our lineup. Instead, as expected, Hazard comes out. Hazard has been significantly better than Reus this season. It's a complete joke that Hazard makes way for Haaland instead of Reus. 

But this is exactly why this team will not have success under Favre. The coach lacks behind the rest of the team. The coach is not only tactically incapable of leading the team, but he doesn't have any command of the dressing room.


----------



## Havre

Harland is slowing down. I guess it had to happen.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Havre said:


> Harland is slowing down. I guess it had to happen.



Yeah, Haaland is a loser. Only 7 goals in 3 games. Fire everybody!


----------



## Cassano

FC Hollywood doing it again. 1st place when it was shaping up to be a miserable season.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Cassano said:


> FC Hollywood doing it again. 1st place when it was shaping up to be a miserable season.




They could win it this year, but so could Dortmund and Leipzig. Leipzig made it a three horse race with their terrible start to the second half, which isn't completely unexpected. I think all three teams are flawed. Bayern has the edge, but they aren't so good that it'd be a complete surprise if the other two won it.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Reus display when he was subbed off today for Hazard was shameful. He acted like a child. It shows a complete lack of respect to the player being subbed on, the coach and his teammates. He's also the captain, so you should be expecting better from the leader.

He's turning into a Cristiano-level diva, but he's not backing it up on the field, like Ronaldo does. He's talked a bigger game in the media than he's played on the field this season. 

He was lucky to start the game. He probably shouldn't have, if the lineup is decided upon merit. He didn't play well today either. He took the penalty that Haaland drew, but did nothing aside from that. He slows down the attack, struggles to control the ball, misses chances he shouldn't be missing. This is turning into a big problem for the team, and Favre has shown no ability to deal with it.


----------



## Cassano

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> They could win it this year, but so could Dortmund and Leipzig. Leipzig made it a three horse race with their terrible start to the second half, which isn't completely unexpected. I think all three teams are flawed. Bayern has the edge, but they aren't so good that it'd be a complete surprise if the other two won it.



Yeah I remember last year Dortmund were 1st until March I believe. Then Bayern thrashed them 5-0. FC Bayern just have some winning mentality that always gets them over the finish line though.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Cassano said:


> Yeah I remember last year Dortmund were 1st until March I believe. Then Bayern thrashed them 5-0. FC Bayern just have some winning mentality that always gets them over the finish line though.




It helps a lot that they're also a much better team than anyone else in Germany.


----------



## Cassano

Deficient Mode said:


> It helps a lot that they're also a much better team than anyone else in Germany.



Agreed. Their bench players can formulate a starting XI that would be good enough for CL under the right manager imo


----------



## Cassano

Apparently Bosz said Aubameyang was suspended for turning up late for training.

He did this to protest the board who promised they wouldn't sell players and ended up selling Dembele shortly. That pissed off a lot of their players it seems.


----------



## PeteWorrell

Cassano said:


> Apparently Bosz said Aubameyang was suspended for turning up late for training.
> 
> He did this to protest the board who promised they wouldn't sell players and ended up selling Dembele shortly. That pissed off a lot of their players it seems.



Dembélé also acted unprofessionally by packing his bags and leaving to force a move to Barcelona. Not like they just sold him out of the blue for a big payday.


----------



## Havre

Haaland missing chances now.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I don't even care that we were knocked out of the Cup. Very fluky circumstances. An incredible volley, bad individual defending and bad goalkeeping by the back up keeper. Dortmund absolutely bossed that game, especially in the second half. Haaland and Reyna were incredible. If Reus wasn't on the field, we'd have won that game, but because he wears the captains armband, he's allowed to be the worst player every game and still retain his place. At least Favre took him out at the end. Maybe Favre is finally going to make him earn his spot in the team.


----------



## Jack Straw




----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I don't even care that we were knocked out of the Cup. Very fluky circumstances. An incredible volley, bad individual defending and bad goalkeeping by the back up keeper. Dortmund absolutely bossed that game, especially in the second half. Haaland and Reyna were incredible. If Reus wasn't on the field, we'd have won that game, but because he wears the captains armband, he's allowed to be the worst player every game and still retain his place. At least Favre took him out at the end. Maybe Favre is finally going to make him earn his spot in the team.




You should care. This was your best chance at a trophy and happy ending to the season. Now Bayern will likely win the double in spite of being in a transitional year.


----------



## Deficient Mode

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> You should care. This was your best chance at a trophy and happy ending to the season. Now Bayern will likely win the double in spite of being in a transitional year.




Winning the Pokal doesn't really make up for how many bad games they've played in other competitions this year relative to the quality of the squad. They were never going to beat Bayern this year either; the only hope for that is that Bayern sleepwalk through a game against a lesser opponent. Despite the recent rash of goal scoring, I keep expecting them to falter terribly away from home and against more skilled opposition that can bring a higher level of intensity (e.g. the last time they played Bayern). The hope that they could have even won the cup has been long gone.


----------



## Havre

At least Reus won't be a problem for awhile.


----------



## Bon Esprit

It's funny how the wannabes collapse. As CFC stated it was never that easy for Dortmund to win something. Bayern will win the whole shit in Germany in a transition year.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Havre said:


> At least Reus won't be a problem for awhile.




Dortmund is going to go on a run here in the next month.

I don’t root for players to get injured, so I’m not happy he’s injured, but Reus has been terrible all season. Adding in an extra good option to that attack will make it even better than it’s been.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Favre is the gaffe-master. He's going to ruin the good CM we've had in recent weeks with Witsel playing in front of Brandt. That pivot has worked excellently. Now he puts in Can, and is going to move Brandt forward. We are already playing a back 3, so there's more than enough defensive support. Can as a box to box midfielder does not work well. If he plays, it should be to replace Akanji in the back 3, as a FB/WB or as the back up to Witsel. Alongside Witsel with a back 3 is to defense.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Was really excited to watch this one with so many young stars. Then Palacios get hurt right after making his debut.smh


----------



## Pensionsraddare

Nice hattrick from Quaison. He couldn’t let Isak be the highest scoring swede this week.


----------



## Halladay

Can with a banger from about 30 yards.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Where the f*** did that come from can


----------



## Chimaera

Yeah heck of a hit


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

An absolute clinic displayed by sancho there.

should be 3-1 dortmund but a poor finish then some school boy defending on the other end. Is balerdi really that bad he can’t even get 10 mins


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

So wasteful. We can't afford to lose this game.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

VAR screws us out of a goal. That was nowhere near the play. That type of tussle between two players wouldn't be called if there was no VAR. If you have an extra referee looking at 10 angles of every play, you are going to ruin the game.


----------



## Halladay

Havretz bottled that chance and now Dortmund score.


----------



## Jack Straw

Pretty wild game


----------



## Jack Straw

Check that, very wild game


----------



## Savant

Is Leon Bailey Nike sponsored...


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

PSG is going to toy with this crap defence. Seriously how bad could they be. Yeesh


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Akanji and Hummels need to go in the summer. We should've never gotten rid of Diallo for Hummels, and we bought Balerdi for nothing. I want to see a back 3 of Zagadou-Balerdi-Can next game.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evergreen



Favre deserves a lot of the blame for the defense being shit.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> PSG is going to toy with this crap defence. Seriously how bad could they be. Yeesh




Everything fall apart once Brandt came out. Favre needs to adjust things better than he did today. The defense was awful.


----------



## Live in the Now

Trust me, you don’t want to see Can in your back three.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Akanji and Hummels need to go in the summer. We should've never gotten rid of Diallo for Hummels, and we bought Balerdi for nothing. I want to see a back 3 of Zagadou-Balerdi-Can next game.



What’s even stranger is that they refused to let him go to Argentine for the tournament. It’s like their actively trying to f*** him over. How can you buy a player for 20 million give him 15 mins of playing time in almost a year. Don’t release him to get some games elsewhere not a loan. What is the plan with him. Like wtf


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Everything fall apart once Brandt came out. Favre needs to adjust things better than he did today. The defense was awful.



It seemed dortmund sat back after the lead and invited pressure they folded within about 10 seconds. Since the team can’t bunker for the life of them. I would blame that on the coach for sure.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> What’s even stranger is that they refused to let him go to Argentine for the tournament. It’s like their actively trying to **** him over. How can you buy a player for 20 million give him 15 mins of playing time in almost a year. Don’t release him to get some games elsewhere not a loan. What is the plan with him. Like wtf




Young players don't really thrive in Dortmund apart from the unmissable talents like Sancho and Dembele.



Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> It seemed dortmund sat back after the lead and invited pressure they folded within about 10 seconds. Since the team can’t bunker for the life of them. I would blame that on the coach for sure.




Just terrible coordination. They don't know how to defend aggressively or how to defend parking the bus. Favre is so much worse at defense than Klopp and Tuchel were.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Deficient Mode said:


> Young players don't really thrive in Dortmund apart from the unmissable talents like Sancho and Dembele.
> 
> 
> 
> Just terrible coordination. They don't know how to defend aggressively or how to defend parking the bus. Favre is so much worse at defense than Klopp and Tuchel were.



Shame I even loved that move for the kid but sadly it’s turning out to be a career killer.


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Favre is useless.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> What’s even stranger is that they refused to let him go to Argentine for the tournament. It’s like their actively trying to **** him over. How can you buy a player for 20 million give him 15 mins of playing time in almost a year. Don’t release him to get some games elsewhere not a loan. What is the plan with him. Like wtf




I don't understand it either.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> It seemed dortmund sat back after the lead and invited pressure they folded within about 10 seconds. Since the team can’t bunker for the life of them. I would blame that on the coach for sure.




Thats textbook Favre-ball. Take the lead, sit back to invite pressure towards your goal, and then it obviously doesn't work and never has with this group of players. It's exactly why Dortmund collapsed last season.


----------



## Havre

I remember when Favre was god on this board.

Not that I disagree with some of the criticism. Dortmund are a very odd team these days.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Havre said:


> I remember when Favre was god on this board.
> 
> Not that I disagree with some of the criticism. Dortmund are a very odd team these days.




As usual, "on this board" = "according to one poster who barely posts here anymore."

He performed well relative to expectations in Gladbach and had a different style of play completely. His teams gave up far fewer goals than Dortmund have under him, and he actually played a pretty conservative style with little pressing at any part of the field. Turns out, that doesn't translate very well to a team that is much more talented and typically needs to bring the game to a more conservative opponent, and that exposes his poor approach to attacking in possession, organizing a defense, pressing, and consistently drawing good effort from his players.


----------



## Havre

It was more than just Evilo - even if I realize he had a bit of a following here.

I'm no expert on Favre. But in general I agree with you. A coach has to fit. Not criticising people thinking Favre would do well at BVB. Very difficult to predict. That is kind of my point though. He is brilliant he $^÷;÷€. Somewhat similar story with Sarri on here.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Favre always runs out of steam after a year or two. Might be because he gets stubborn about stuff.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Havre said:


> It was more than just Evilo - even if I realize he had a bit of a following here.
> 
> I'm no expert on Favre. But in general I agree with you. A coach has to fit. Not criticising people thinking Favre would do well at BVB. Very difficult to predict. That is kind of my point though. He is brilliant he $^÷;÷€. Somewhat similar story with Sarri on here.




I was referring to cgf. He was the only one on this forum who has ever thought Favre was more than a good manager, but maybe one of the best in the world. Evilo respected Favre's work his first year in Nice but didn't regard him as a genius.

At least Sarri's style would have translated reasonably well to a bigger club, but there were personal relationship issues that probably led to his failure at Chelsea. It is difficult to predict and we see good managers and players routinely fail to establish themselves at new clubs.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Every manager gets trashed on here tbf... hell every player to an extent.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Klinsmann steps down as Hertha coach after 10 weeks.

What a tool!


----------



## Havre

How does that make him a tool?

Wouldn't be the first time a manager gives up in Germany due to internal politics at the club. Klinsmann is in a position where he doesn't have to take any of that stuff so..

Not that I know what happened here, but certainly looks like that was his interpretation of the situation at least.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Havre said:


> How does that make him a tool?
> 
> Wouldn't be the first time a manager gives up in Germany due to internal politics at the club. Klinsmann is in a position where he doesn't have to take any of that stuff so..
> 
> Not that I know what happened here, but certainly looks like that was his interpretation of the situation at least.




This is way bigger than "another manager stepping down".
Klinsmann was brought in by Lars Windhorst, who holds 49.9% of Hertha. He spent 70M Euros this winter on players and then steps down because he doesn't "feel loyality!.

German wiki, because the English version is not up-to-date
Hertha BSC – Wikipedia

English wiki on Lars Windhorst

Lars Windhorst - Wikipedia

I knew from the start the Hertha/Windhorst/Klinsmann combination is BS and will bite Hertha in the end.

Klinsmann, by the way. still is Windhorst's man in the supervisory board.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

I didnt think itd go this quick but its a pretty predictable end. Both Windhorst and Klinsmann are classic “Blender” types. Id almost guarantee that Windhorst’s involvement will end in tears too.

Its also a typical Hertha phenomenon. Big mouth, nothing behind it. Not the first time that club falls victim to megalomania. One of the reasons its easy to dislike them.


----------



## Havre

Still don't get why that makes him a tool. If Hertha are buying players for Klinsmann's personal pleasure than sure, but I doubt that was the case. And if he hoped to be able to solve whatever differences they had then you keep on going until you don't.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Havre said:


> How does that make him a tool?
> 
> Wouldn't be the first time a manager gives up in Germany due to internal politics at the club. Klinsmann is in a position where he doesn't have to take any of that stuff so..
> 
> Not that I know what happened here, but certainly looks like that was his interpretation of the situation at least.




He is a tool in the original meaning, not as an insult in this case. Klinsmann is Windhorst's tool to take over Hertha BSC Berlin.

As an insult term I'd take imposter. Windhorst himself is an imposter, too. So is Hertha in my mind. A wannabe big club in a big capital. But they never were. LOL, maybe in the 1920s.

Additional info: I read the reason he leaves is that he wanted to be a manager like in England, coach and full transfer resonsibility. Hertha didn't want that.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I was looking forward to him getting them relegated. He saved them relegation by stepping down.


----------



## Havre

Ok. I have really now knowledge about the inner workings at Hertha. I also interpreted the use of the word "tool" differently - which made me curious.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I was looking forward to him getting them relegated. He saved them relegation by stepping down.



Not this year, I guess. There are worse teams, including Werder I really want to turn things around. Nouri is not a bad interim replacement. He did most of the work anyway.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Not this year, I guess. There are worse teams, including Werder I really want to turn things around. Nouri is not a bad interim replacement. He did most of the work anyway.




I think Düsseldorf and Mainz are worse than Bremen. That would be my guess for 16th and 17th, but it’s very close. 13th and 18th is only separated by 7 points.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Hertha and Tennor (Windhorst) just said, Klinsmann is out completley. Windhorst is searching for 2 representatives for the supervisory board.
Gegenbauer, Preetz and Windhorst looked really xxxxed off.


----------



## PansCyans

What a game from Guerrero and Hakimi today


----------



## cgf

F*** Vizekusen & f*** stoppage time. That is all.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Liked what I saw yesterday out of Dortmund. Can and Piszczek brought some needed power and physicality to a very soft team. The lack of Akanji could've also had something to do with the clean sheet.

Favre's might pay the price though for how he used Hazard and Goetze to start 2020. Both players played extremely small (sometimes non-existent) roles the first number of games. Favre is forced to use these guys now, and both are out of form due to a recent lack of minutes. Reyna also isn't ready for more than a bit part role. He's going to have to rely on these two players in the upcoming weeks with Reus and Brandt out injured. It would've made sense to not completely ruin their form. This is what you get when you don't rotate your squad enough.


----------



## Khomutov

You can say Haaland saved Favres job this winter. This guy is incredible.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Khomutov said:


> You can say Haaland saved Favres job this winter. This guy is incredible.




Favre should’ve been sacked before Haaland joined the club. The rumors of him being sacked have quieted, although they are strategically placed every few weeks to remind everyone that Favre is only still here because there weren’t any better options midseason. He’ll be gone at the end of the season.


----------



## Deficient Mode

And the win against PSG aside, a lot of the issues seem to be there still since Haaland came. They've played badly in all three road matches (although Haaland turned the tide in the second half of two of those), and crushed bad lower half of the table teams at home. Their issues have come mostly on the road, even against much weaker teams. Maybe if they beat PSG away you can make that claim, but I wouldn't be too optimistic.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> And the win against PSG aside, a lot of the issues seem to be there still since Haaland came. They've played badly in all three road matches (although Haaland turned the tide in the second half of two of those), and crushed bad lower half of the table teams at home. Their issues have come mostly on the road, even against much weaker teams. Maybe if they beat PSG away you can make that claim, but I wouldn't be too optimistic.




And as good as Haaland has been, it’s overshadowing Sancho whose been as good or better than Haaland. Sancho isn’t the same level of goal scorer as Haaland, but total goal and assists numbers are world class right now. He’s been performing all season, and has a good claim for Bundesliga player of the season over Lewandowski.

Haaland scores the most goals, but Sancho runs our attack, especially with Brandt injured.


----------



## Khomutov

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Favre should’ve been sacked before Haaland joined the club. The rumors of him being sacked have quieted, although they are strategically placed every few weeks to remind everyone that Favre is only still here because there weren’t any better options midseason. He’ll be gone at the end of the season.




I agree. He gave away the championship last season and this year Bayern is bad, but Dortmund can't take advantage of it.


----------



## Khomutov

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> And as good as Haaland has been, it’s overshadowing Sancho whose been as good or better than Haaland. Sancho isn’t the same level of goal scorer as Haaland, but total goal and assists numbers are world class right now. *He’s been performing all season, and has a good claim for Bundesliga player of the season over Lewandowski.*
> 
> Haaland scores the most goals, but Sancho runs our attack, especially with Brandt injured.




No, Sancho is very good, but Lewandowski is on another level. Without him, Bayern would be third or fourth place now. He has what, 25 goals in 23 games now? Going for the goal record of Gerd Mueller.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Khomutov said:


> No, Sancho is very good, but Lewandowski is on another level. Without him, Bayern would be third or fourth place now. He has what, 25 goals in 23 games now? Going for the goal record of Gerd Mueller.




Sancho has a higher rate of goals and assists combined while playing much further from the goal and thus typically needing to surpass more defenders to reach the goal when he first touches it. There's certainly a case that he's doing more to drive offense than Lewandowski this year.


----------



## Cassano

Deficient Mode said:


> Sancho has a higher rate of goals and assists combined while playing much further from the goal and thus typically needing to surpass more defenders to reach the goal when he first touches it. There's certainly a case that he's doing more to drive offense than Lewandowski this year.



do u finally think he's better than what Dembele was for Dortmund


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

If i didnt have ptsd from Demebele I would be begging for barca to snap him up.

Lautaro+sancho yes please


----------



## Bon Esprit

Köln are beating up Hertha big time. On their own ground.


----------



## Bon Esprit

HSV losing at home vs. St. Pauli. Imagine this: Relegation playoffs Werder vs. HSV.


----------



## gary69

Bon Esprit said:


> Köln are beating up Hertha big time. On their own ground.




The Köln Carnival can now really begin and kick into high gear.


----------



## Live in the Now

Haaland has 40 goals in...30 games.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Schalke has a culture problem. Their players and coaches that they keep blaming for their terrible football and mediocre results aren't that bad. At some point, you gotta start looking at the people running the club for why coaches and players are consistently producing terrible football and mediocre results.

I know Leipzig is good, but a 5-0 loss at home to anyone for a club of their stature is embarrassing.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Cassano said:


> do u finally think he's better than what Dembele was for Dortmund




Maybe. Certainly scoring more. But Dortmund had far less on offense that year than they do now imo. They lost their best offensive player (Mkhitaryan) from the previous season. Reus had a meh year from my recollection and Aubameyang was only a finisher. Dembele played as an 8 in some matches, and from what I remember he was easily Dortmund's best offensive player. I also preferred watching him dribble over Sancho, who slows the ball down too much for my liking sometimes. Both were incredible 19 year olds though.


----------



## Khomutov

Dembele is wasting his talent right now.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Khomutov said:


> You can say Haaland saved Favres job this winter. This guy is incredible.



Don't forget Emre Can. IMO a very important transfer. Finally they got a really good defensive player.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Caught the 2nd half of bayer’s game. Palacios named MOTM I didnt think he had a stand out performance. He was good but people acted like he dominated... maybe he had an immense first half? I thought Kai was the best player, his an amazing player. At one point he started Bayer’s attack at right midfield but ended up finish the play as a LW. He just pops up anywhere. Delight to watch. Interested to see what his next move is.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bayern has an easy stretch of games coming up, so they should do well without Lewandowski, but the question with Bayern has always been if they fall apart if Lewandowski misses any significant amount of time. Now he will. It's a close title race, so they can't afford to drop points in some easier games coming up.


----------



## Bon Esprit

The Salzburg-Frankfurt game was postponed, so some Eintracht fans watched hockey.





Cool stuff somehow.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bon Esprit said:


> Not this year, I guess. There are worse teams, including Werder I really want to turn things around. Nouri is not a bad interim replacement. He did most of the work anyway.



Maybe I was wrong. Hertha are totally crap.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Given the chaos around the club with Preetz under increasing pressure, Klinsmann calling just about everything around the club crappy (which a lot of fans are willing to believe and Im sure all the players have their own opinion on too)...its hardly surprising that the team’s performances are disastrous too.

Honestly I believe Klinsmann is right about the club, but I think the fact they sought to hire him in the first place is actually a major symptom of that club being controlled by incompetents.


----------



## Savi

Wtf is going on at the Hoffenheim/Bayern game


----------



## Bon Esprit

Savi said:


> Wtf is going on at the Hoffenheim/Bayern game



I need to watch tv later. I read Bayern fans insulted Hoffenheim boss Hopp. It would not be the first time Hopp gets insulted.


----------



## Burner Account

Savi said:


> Wtf is going on at the Hoffenheim/Bayern game



From what I gather, Bayern fans displayed a banner/banners calling Hoffenheim’s owner a son of a bitch. This is apparently not the first time visiting fans have done something like this, since fans of other German clubs resent SAP for pumping money into Hoffenheim. The referee interrupted the match twice to address it and was unsuccessful, so in protest of the Bayern fans’ actions, the players decided to play keep ups for the last 10 minutes.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Oh so the referees and owner were offended by the fans peacefully exercising their freedom of speech and adding passion to the game... well they shouldve ignored it and displayed mental strength not to be effected by words. Like men were men in the 60s.


----------



## Power Man

But they keep on playing when a player is being racially abused


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Oh so the referees and owner were offended by the fans peacefully exercising their freedom of speech and adding passion to the game... well they shouldve ignored it and displayed mental strength not to be effected by words. Like men were men in the 60s.




The sign was actually "son of a whore", so the insult was to the mother of the owner. Frankly, I have no problem with what the players did.


----------



## Havre

I am sure his mother is OK.

Let the police deal with it if there is something wrong with that banner and/or their songs.

If insulting someone´s mother now is enough to get games stopped. Honestly I can only laugh.


----------



## Albatros

Bwaa, millionaire owner gets targeted by a standard chant.


----------



## Deficient Mode

spintheblackcircle said:


> The sign was actually "son of a whore", so the insult was to the mother of the owner. Frankly, I have no problem with what the players did.




It's an extremely common insult in German that is lobbed around all the time at soccer matches at opposing players and fans. 

Just three weeks ago the referee and other players ignored monkey chants that Schalke fans aimed all match at a black player for Hertha, and the referee in fact ended up giving a second yellow to that player for being upset at the chants. Lovely example that throwing a banal insult at an owner will stop a match but the racism and far right banners that seem to pop up all the time simply have to be ignored.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Well, the score line was 6-0 against the home team, don't think that would happen if the result was in doubt. But what you can take from that is that players, managers, club bosses etc. are all millionaires and have more in common with each other than with the fans. 

The funny thing is that the Hopp/Hurensohn thing has taken on a life of its own precisely because Hopp finds it impossible to ignore. It's never going to go away now because it's such an easy yet highly effective provocation.


----------



## Albatros

The match between Köln and Schalke also temporarily suspended because of the same chant.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Power Man said:


> But they keep on playing when a player is being racially abused




Yup



spintheblackcircle said:


> The sign was actually "son of a whore", so the insult was to the mother of the owner. Frankly, I have no problem with what the players did.




Let me be clear I don't mind the game was stopped although calling someone a SOB is pretty tame. It's just hilarious that it happened on the heels of some BLATANT racism on here. Hopefully the same energy is transferred to future racist behavior. In any case my post was pretty obvious mocking someone on here.


----------



## Cassano

Blatant racism is allowed, but good god if you don't support the 50+1 rule you're literally Stalin.


----------



## Power Man

Bensebaini comes back from an injury and scores for Gladbach
I like this


----------



## DrMartinVanNostrand

Power Man said:


> Bensebaini comes back from an injury and scores for Gladbach
> I like this




Also twice had contact made to his, umm, man parts in the space of, like, five minutes almost immediately after scoring.


----------



## Power Man

DrMartinVanNostrand said:


> Also twice had contact made to his, umm, man parts in the space of, like, five minutes almost immediately after scoring.



Lol damn


----------



## gary69

Another terrible game from Nubel, letting in a howler own goal. With the way he has been playing since announcing him moving to Bayern next season, he won't be threatening Neuer's position at all nor getting to play many games there. Schalke are probably better off not playing him for rest of the season, or at least for the next few games.


----------



## Albatros

RB Leipzig kicked 20 fans out of their stadium for being Asian, somehow no outrage from the DFB or any other part of the establishment. 

RB Leipzig apologise to Japanese fans for coronavirus 'error'


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

gary69 said:


> Another terrible game from Nubel, letting in a howler own goal. With the way he has been playing since announcing him moving to Bayern next season, he won't be threatening Neuer's position at all nor getting to play many games there. Schalke are probably better off not playing him for rest of the season, or at least for the next few games.




Dude cant handle the negativity. As expected he’s become a persona non grata for many fans after the announcement. Its not even surprising really..if his agent didnt prepare him for it, he needs a new one.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Schalke-Bayern tonight (DfB Pokal). Both teams agreed on terms they will leave the pitch, if something like last saturday at the Hoffenhem-Bayern game happens again.

This will be fun...


----------



## Bon Esprit

Some important games this weekend.

Hertha-Bremen
Mainz-Düsseldorf
Gladbach-Dortmund
Schalke-Hoffenheim

After yesterday's loss Paderborn's fate seems to be sealed.

Nürnberg lost to Hannover yesterday. Well, actually not newsworthy, but after the game two Nürnberg players received death threats. Sick world.


----------



## John Pedro

Unleash this kid, he's a beast


----------



## HajdukSplit

Bremen blew a two goal lead in Berlin, think its now between them and Fortuna for the final relegation spot. Title race could be all but over after this MD too if Dortmund don't win at Gladbach, Leipzig not in the best of forms (domestically)


----------



## Bon Esprit

Great game by Paulinho for Leverkusen. 2 goals 1 assist.


----------



## Albatros

Bon Esprit said:


> Schalke-Bayern tonight (DfB Pokal). Both teams agreed on terms they will leave the pitch, if something like last saturday at the Hoffenhem-Bayern game happens again.
> 
> This will be fun...




The censorship has led to mockery as could be expected, but Frankfurt did it better:






_"Dietmar Hopp you son of a"_


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Leipzig falling away, as expected. This is their first season challenging for the title. It was going to be difficult enough anyway to not get fatigued, but still being in Europe wasn't going to help. They'll be back next season. 

Gritty win for Dortmund. That was one of our worst performances of the season, but it was against Gladbach, so almost a guaranteed win.

Bayern plays tomorrow. They are in great form, but the lack of Lewandowski could show up one of these games.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Albatros said:


> The censorship has led to mockery as could be expected, but Frankfurt did it better:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"Dietmar Hopp you son of a"_



Actually it said: Hopp, you son of a mother.

TBH I don't understand this crap. How are clubs like Bayern, BvB or Eintracht Frankfurt different?
If they don't like it, they can watch 3rd league or amateur. Those ultras don't understand that Bundesliga is entertainment and business.


----------



## Albatros

The point is very much to sabotage the business side of it, perhaps such conflict is a losing battle but why not go down fighting and burn all bridges.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

No shots for Bayern at halftime in the Bavarian Derby. I’m just saying.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> No shots for Bayern at halftime in the Bavarian Derby. I’m just saying.



They always find a way. always!

Mainz-Düsseldorf just started. This game has a big impact on the relegation race.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Corona is taking over

It is said neither the PSG nor the Schalke game will be played in front of spectators. Crap.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Agsbrg sacked Martin Schmidt. Because of what?. Because they lost to Bayern?
Who do they think they are? I had them in bottom 4 at best before the season started. They are lucky Werder crapped the bed. Otherwise they'd be 16th or 17th.


----------



## HajdukSplit

After Weinzierl who stayed for like 4-5 years off the top of my head it seems they have lost patience with his replacements quickly


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Corona is taking over
> 
> It is said neither the PSG nor the Schalke game will be played in front of spectators. Crap.




I'm getting tired of this virus upending events around the world.

When it is all said and done, how many lives will it end up saving that events are being cancelled, significantly altered or postponed? There have only been a few thousand deaths around the whole world.

Using the example of all the changes that have been made with football schedules around the world, if playing games without fans and postponing them saves the lives of three people that would've contracted this virus at these stadiums and would end up eventually dying from the virus, will this have all been worth it from a humankind perspective?

The nature of these governing bodies in sport and politics surrounding this virus has been unnervingly authoritarian. The solution should be simple. Be worried if you are worried and take precaution. If you aren't, carry on and the precaution others want to take shouldn't be a forced precaution on everyone. In terms of these football matches, if you are terribly worried about this virus, don't attend. If you aren't worried, attend at your own risk.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm getting tired of this virus upending events around the world.
> 
> When it is all said and done, how many lives will it end up saving that events are being cancelled, significantly altered or postponed? There have only been a few thousand deaths around the whole world.
> 
> Using the example of all the changes that have been made with football schedules around the world, if playing games without fans and postponing them saves the lives of three people that would've contracted this virus at these stadiums and would end up eventually dying from the virus, will this have all been worth it from a humankind perspective?
> 
> The nature of these governing bodies in sport and politics surrounding this virus has been unnervingly authoritarian. The solution should be simple. Be worried if you are worried and take precaution. If you aren't, carry on and the precaution others want to take shouldn't be a forced precaution on everyone. In terms of these football matches, if you are terribly worried about this virus, don't attend. If you aren't worried, attend at your own risk.



.
I predict no games will be played in Germany in the forseeable future. We have the 2 first death cases today. one 89yo woman in Essen and one (m/f) in Heinsberg. Both in NRW.
Here where I live you can't even buy toilet paper anymore. This is not German Angst, this is German Panic. Ridiculous.


----------



## Power Man

I was planning on buying tickets for the CL Final

Not sure what they are gonna do now


----------



## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm getting tired of this virus upending events around the world.
> 
> When it is all said and done, how many lives will it end up saving that events are being cancelled, significantly altered or postponed? There have only been a few thousand deaths around the whole world.
> 
> Using the example of all the changes that have been made with football schedules around the world, if playing games without fans and postponing them saves the lives of three people that would've contracted this virus at these stadiums and would end up eventually dying from the virus, will this have all been worth it from a humankind perspective?
> 
> The nature of these governing bodies in sport and politics surrounding this virus has been unnervingly authoritarian. The solution should be simple. Be worried if you are worried and take precaution. If you aren't, carry on and the precaution others want to take shouldn't be a forced precaution on everyone. In terms of these football matches, if you are terribly worried about this virus, don't attend. If you aren't worried, attend at your own risk.



This is kind of a very narrow view of how it could affect people. I agree that the panic is over the top but it makes sense to limit large gatherings of people to contain the spread of the virus until proper measures and understanding are in place for what it is. Part of the reason that it's so bad in China and Italy is because it was spread without knowledge or preparation. Yes, it's not dangerous to most people but everyone knows someone who is old, infirm or has a pre-existing health condition. It's not reasonable to say 'well, if you don't want to catch it don't go outside because people who can survive it don't care if they spread it' sort of thing. A measured response with non-sensationalism is the best way to go about it. Shutting down society (IMO) is not the answer, but playing behind closed doors while still televising, etc. seems like a pretty reasonable approach.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> .
> I predict no games will be played in Germany in the forseeable future. We have the 2 first death cases today. one 89yo woman in Essen and one (m/f) in Heinsberg. Both in NRW.
> Here where I live you can't even buy toilet paper anymore. This is not German Angst, this is German Panic. Ridiculous.




Toilet paper is sold out everywhere. Nothing German about it. Simple logic - if people hear theres a run on toilet paper the first instinctive response is to go buy toilet paper.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

YNWA14 said:


> This is kind of a very narrow view of how it could affect people. I agree that the panic is over the top but it makes sense to limit large gatherings of people to contain the spread of the virus until proper measures and understanding are in place for what it is. Part of the reason that it's so bad in China and Italy is because it was spread without knowledge or preparation. Yes, it's not dangerous to most people but everyone knows someone who is old, infirm or has a pre-existing health condition. It's not reasonable to say 'well, if you don't want to catch it don't go outside because people who can survive it don't care if they spread it' sort of thing. A measured response with non-sensationalism is the best way to go about it. Shutting down society (IMO) is not the answer, but playing behind closed doors while still televising, etc. seems like a pretty reasonable approach.




I think the scope of this virus is being seriously exaggerated. I agree that in general if you are worried about the spread of a virus that large gatherings are not wise. These are basic measures that people take for common seasonal viral illnesses.

However, I think it is going too far when major events such as SXSW, Comic Con and BNP Paribas Open are already cancelled, and surely there will be more.

I think it’s completely reasonable to not want to attend an event like the Inter-Juve, A UCL game or the RevierDerby if you are seriously worried about COVID19. I’m not naive enough to believe that everyone needs to view this situation like I do. However, it is shutting down society to close off these games to fans. These are not everyday events. There are probably people who plan a year in advance to attend these events. I think these governing bodies don’t realize how they are impacting people by restricting attendance.

And I think anyone who would attend is attending at their own peril. I don’t think the scope of this virus is serious enough that governing bodies should be instituting bans at this point. Warnings about the consequences make sense.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm getting tired of this virus upending events around the world.
> 
> When it is all said and done, how many lives will it end up saving that events are being cancelled, significantly altered or postponed? There have only been a few thousand deaths around the whole world.
> 
> Using the example of all the changes that have been made with football schedules around the world, if playing games without fans and postponing them saves the lives of three people that would've contracted this virus at these stadiums and would end up eventually dying from the virus, will this have all been worth it from a humankind perspective?
> 
> The nature of these governing bodies in sport and politics surrounding this virus has been unnervingly authoritarian. The solution should be simple. Be worried if you are worried and take precaution. If you aren't, carry on and the precaution others want to take shouldn't be a forced precaution on everyone. In terms of these football matches, if you are terribly worried about this virus, don't attend. If you aren't worried, attend at your own risk.



What a grossly privileged and entitled post. If it only saves 3 people is it worth it? Because you know I need to each 22 grown men kick a ball. This entertainment is much much more important than people dying. I get that its annoying and the sensationalism is somewhat over the top but please linking this with authoritative governments is beyond idiotic. Peoples lives are actually impacted in significant ways not to mention the players don't get to "choose" being exposed or not if the games are open to the public. So please spare me.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> What a grossly privileged and entitled post. If it only saves 3 people is it worth it? Because you know I need to each 22 grown men kick a ball. This entertainment is much much more important than people dying. I get that its annoying and the sensationalism is somewhat over the top but please linking this with authoritative governments is beyond idiotic. Peoples lives are actually impacted in significant ways not to mention the players don't get to "choose" being exposed or not if the games are open to the public. So please spare me.




Save the bumper stickers for another discussion. You are advocating a worldwide panic over a virus that statistically has not had more than a mild health impact on society. Meanwhile, you and your cohorts want to shut down society and strain resources to incredible extents.

And yes, it makes sense for governing bodies to make cost-benefit analyses about the people and subjects they govern. It would be dumb not to. You probably know that this always happens all the time and no one complains about it, but you’ve bought into the panic already. Reason, statistics and rationality has already passed you by.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Save the bumper stickers for another discussion. You are advocating a worldwide panic over a virus that statistically has not had more than a mild health impact on society. Meanwhile, you and your cohorts want to shut down society and strain resources to incredible extents.
> 
> And yes, it makes sense for governing bodies to make cost-benefit analyses about the people and subjects they govern. It would be dumb not to. You probably know that this always happens all the time and no one complains about it, but you’ve bought into the panic already. Reason, statistics and rationality has already passed you by.



Shutting down society lol? People are still working and going to school and I'm actually sitting pretty in Canada. Costco is still filled with supplies. No one I believe is calling for a mass quarantine. Just deal with things sensibly. Hell my mothers stuck in london unable to see her dying mother but yeah bumper stickers. Please spare me your entitled and privileged BS.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Shutting down society lol? People are still working and going to school and I'm actually sitting pretty in Canada. Costco is still filled with supplies. No one I believe is calling for a mass quarantine. Just deal with things sensibly. Hell my mothers stuck in london unable to see her dying mother but yeah bumper stickers. Please spare me your entitled and privileged BS.




Then that shows how ignorant you are about this virus. Schools and workplaces in many areas have been shut down. Big worldwide events have been cancelled or postponed. Companies are losing huge profits due to all of this. You think it’s worth it because the effects of this panic in society doesn’t effect you and you want to take part in a panic. That’s your choice, but don’t start throwing inflammatory accusations towards other people because they have a different view.


----------



## Live in the Now

A very secretive authoritarian regime who doesn't care about their own people in China destroyed their own economy over this, so the idea that this isn't going to become serious in the West is very hard to believe.

Also, if you believe the official numbers China gave everyone, lol.


----------



## phisherman

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Then that shows how ignorant you are about this virus. Schools and workplaces in many areas have been shut down. Big worldwide events have been cancelled or postponed. Companies are losing huge profits due to all of this. You think it’s worth it because the effects of this panic in society doesn’t effect you and you want to take part in a panic. That’s your choice, but don’t start throwing inflammatory accusations towards other people because they have a different view.




Yes everyone is dumb for trying to prevent the spread of this virus. You're the expert virologist right?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Then that shows how ignorant you are about this virus. Schools and workplaces in many areas have been shut down. Big worldwide events have been cancelled or postponed. Companies are losing huge profits due to all of this. You think it’s worth it because the effects of this panic in society doesn’t effect you and you want to take part in a panic. That’s your choice, but don’t start throwing inflammatory accusations towards other people because they have a different view.



I'm no coronavirus expert but your original post was about football matches played indoors. It's pure BS and it has effected me and family if you actually read my post. Like I said its riddled with privilege. All too common these days on here.


----------



## YNWA14

Live in the Now said:


> A very secretive authoritarian regime who doesn't care about their own people in China destroyed their own economy over this, so the idea that this isn't going to become serious in the West is very hard to believe.
> 
> Also, if you believe the official numbers China gave everyone, lol.



So you think the rest of Europe are fabricating their numbers as well? Seems like venturing into very large conspiracy territory.


----------



## Live in the Now

YNWA14 said:


> So you think the rest of Europe are fabricating their numbers as well? Seems like venturing into very large conspiracy territory.




Didn't I just put down the word China? I know you know how to read way better than this. 

The virus takes a long time to spread and governments know this. If they are taking precautionary measures there's a good reason.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

phisherman said:


> Yes everyone is dumb for trying to prevent the spread of this virus. You're the expert virologist right?




Why do I need to be an expert virologist? Many of these experts are the people taking part in these ridiculous decisions. An appeal to authority isn’t going to work here.


----------



## Live in the Now

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Why do I need to be an expert virologist? Many of these experts are the people taking part in these ridiculous decisions. An appeal to authority isn’t going to work here.




The point is if you aren't an expert, you don't know anything and should limit your comments very much.


----------



## YNWA14

Live in the Now said:


> Didn't I just put down the word China? I know you know how to read way better than this.
> 
> The virus takes a long time to spread and governments know this. If they are taking precautionary measures there's a good reason.



Right but my point is that if China were lying about their numbers wouldn't the numbers look worse in Europe already given the thousands upon thousands already infected (and recovered)? Again, aside from Italy where it unfortunately was spreading for weeks before anyone knew what was really going on the spread/deathrate seems relatively in line with other endemic viruses we already face yearly. Again, we don't really know if this will become endemic or if it's containable but since most other countries had a bit of notice/time to prepare the response seems a lot better and better contained outside of those initial hotbeds of China, Italy and Iran (I'm not including South Korea because their numbers are very high but mortality rate way below those other three).

It is important yes to have a strong response and prepare the proper infrastructure to deal with the virus (as we have with the flu for example) but that takes time and in the meantime panic and sensationalism could or will likely cause more harm than the virus itself.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I'm no coronavirus expert but your original post was about football matches played indoors. It's pure BS and it has effected me and family if you actually read my post. Like I said its riddled with privilege. All too common these days on here.




My initial post covered a number of areas, one of which are football matches that are being played indoors.

If you are going to react to this due to sentiment and how it’s effected you personally, you should have enough foresight to realize the difference between the reaction of yourself and of most other people. As I think all acknowledge, this has had a very mild health effect on society. The overwhelming majority of people don’t know anyone with COVID19 or realistically know anyone that will end up having more than a minuscule chance of contracting this virus.

And your own personal sentiments are completely irrelevant to the decisions that governing bodies are making.


----------



## phisherman

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Why do I need to be an expert virologist? Many of these experts are the people taking part in these ridiculous decisions. An appeal to authority isn’t going to work here.




How about the possibility that they may know more about you and that they want to contain this as much as possible.

I hope you catch it because you think it's just the flu.


----------



## Live in the Now

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> If you are going to react to this due to sentiment and how it’s effected you personally, you should have enough foresight to realize the difference between the reaction of yourself and of most other people. As I think all acknowledge, this has had a very mild health effect on society.




It is way too early to make stupid proclamations like this. The virus has existed for more or less two months.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

I agree that you cant shut down society for this, but not putting thousands at risks for a trivial entertainment event seems like a relatively low price to pay all things considered.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

phisherman said:


> I hope you catch it because you think it's just the flu.




And if I do, there’s a minuscule chance it leads to death.


----------



## Live in the Now

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> And if I do, there’s a minuscule chance it leads to death.




Yes, but a much larger chance that you carry it and kill someone else.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> My initial post covered a number of areas, one of which are football matches that are being played indoors.
> 
> If you are going to react to this due to sentiment and how it’s effected you personally, you should have enough foresight to realize the difference between the reaction of yourself and of most other people. As I think all acknowledge, this has had a very mild health effect on society. The overwhelming majority of people don’t know anyone with COVID19 or realistically know anyone that will end up having more than a minuscule chance of contracting this virus.
> 
> And your own personal sentiments are completely irrelevant to the decisions that governing bodies are making.




The premise of your post was that countries shouldn't be shutting down events and give out warnings. So, they do not act like authoritative governments. Its beyond dumb.


----------



## phisherman

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> And if I do, there’s a minuscule chance it leads to death.




You probably haven't read how some have gotten permanent organ damage from this. 

I don't actually wish you get it. I think you're pretty ignorant of the effects of this virus.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

phisherman said:


> You probably haven't read how some have gotten permanent organ damage from this.
> 
> I don't actually wish you get it. I think you're pretty ignorant of the effects of this virus.




Not among the 80% or so who don't end up with serious illness to be fair. But yes the chances of getting seriously messed up by this even as a non-risk group person are much more significant than a lot of people think.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> The premise of your post was that countries shouldn't be shutting down events and give out warnings. So, they do not act like authoritative governments. Its beyond dumb.




You’ve began to move the goalposts. Now you recognize that my initial post was not as narrowly tailored as you suggest. And this is an athletic forum anyway. What do you suggest would be the level of interest in this thread for a general discussion of profits lost due to the panic related to this virus?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> You’ve began to move the goalposts. Now you recognize that my initial post was not as narrowly tailored as you suggest. And this is an athletic forum anyway. What do you suggest would be the level of interest in this thread for a general discussion of profits lost due to the panic related to this virus?



Nope the goal posts remain. And i would suggest common sense regardless of forum one finds himself on. I mean you can bemoan the loss of games but expect to be called out.


----------



## Live in the Now

I think everyone is very bummed about the loss of games. Shit I'm going to the Laker game tomorrow. I'll be bummed about that season getting messed up too. I do understand that we probably shouldn't be having these games though.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

phisherman said:


> I think you're pretty ignorant of the effects of this virus.




And I think you know nothing about me, nor do I expect you to. You’re a stranger on an Internet forum. 

What I think is clear is that there are a lot of fear mongers in society who thrive off unfortunate and tragic situations like this. They take joy out of this type of virus to give their life some extra excitement. You can decide if you fit into that category. I know that there are plenty who it applies to.

I have studied the effects of this virus and am certainly not ignorant about developments with it. I simply deal with facts. It’s a very mild health risk at this point, which even the fear mongers can’t dispute. And based off that fact, I don’t think society should be shutting down to the extent it has.


----------



## YNWA14

phisherman said:


> You probably haven't read how some have gotten permanent organ damage from this.
> 
> I don't actually wish you get it. I think you're pretty ignorant of the effects of this virus.



To be fair I don't think that anyone on this forum can claim to be an expert on the effects of this virus.


----------



## les Habs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'm getting tired of this virus upending events around the world.




 f***ing coronavirus! The World should drink Miller High Life instead!

I mean seriously, they should just infect all the players and personnel of each team attending the match, the match officials, the security, all the attendants in the stadium, etc. That way they don't have to worry about it spreading. Then just suspend the league for two weeks and resume after that because everyone will be over it. Problem solved. Amirite?



Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Using the example of all the changes that have been made with football schedules around the world, if playing games without fans and postponing them saves the lives of three people that would've contracted this virus at these stadiums and would end up eventually dying from the virus, will this have all been worth it from a humankind perspective?




Nope. It's only worth it if the lives of four people are saved.


----------



## Live in the Now

les Habs said:


> Nope. It's only worth it if the lives of four people are saved.




I only just now saw what you quoted there. Holy shit.


----------



## Bon Esprit

The Gladbach-Köln derby tomorrow will be without fans. First time in Germany.

update

Dortmund-Schalke, too

The EL game Basel-Frankfurt is cancelled.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Since this is a hockey board I think it's relevant to know that the DEL just cancelled the season today due to corona. No playoffs, no champion.
This will be a financial challenge to many clubs in Germany i'd think.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Live in the Now said:


> I only just now saw what you quoted there. Holy shit.



Surprised most just overlooked it tbh


----------



## Bon Esprit

The first players has been diagnosed with Corona, Timo Hübers (Hannover 96)
Erster Corona-Fall im deutschen Fußball: 96-Profi Timo Hübers hat sich auf Party angesteckt


----------



## Cassano




----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Cassano said:


>




Yet Bayer is in the middle of a game...


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

That doesn’t seem like a good solution. Wait it out a month and resume the season then. All big summer international tournaments can be postponed and the less important international fixtures can be cancelled.


----------



## Live in the Now

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> That doesn’t seem like a good solution. Wait it out a month and resume the season then. All big summer international tournaments can be postponed and the less important international fixtures can be cancelled.




You're in denial. This is going to take way longer than one month.


----------



## robertmac43

Cassano said:


>




That relegation battle would be something...


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bundesliga season stops on tuesday.
Bundesliga und 2. Liga spielen am Wochenende - Pause ab Dienstag


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bon Esprit said:


> Bundesliga season stops on tuesday.
> Bundesliga und 2. Liga spielen am Wochenende - Pause ab Dienstag




Correction#
German leagues stop immediately.
Rolle rückwärts: Spielbetrieb in 1. und 2. Bundesliga sofort eingestellt


----------



## Lambo

Big News! Lothar Matthäus is stuck in Dubai. Corona stops even Loddar!


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich




----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


>




I doubt there will be any games in front of fans in 2020. Maybe they can complete the season somehow.
TBH I don't think many teams, esp. in 2.. 3. and Regionalliga, will survive if the pandemia lasts.

Stay at home and stay healthy.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> I doubt there will be any games in front of fans in 2020. Maybe they can complete the season somehow.
> TBH I don't think many teams, esp. in 2.. 3. and Regionalliga, will survive if the pandemia lasts.
> 
> Stay at home and stay healthy.




I definitely don't think there will be any fans for the rest of the season, if it's completed. It's too early to say what will happen next season. If things get better, I could see fans return. It's hard to think that if all the leagues are playing games in October and there are minimal traces in society of COVID19 that leagues will be disrupting revenue generated from fans attending games by not allowing fans. If the virus is still here in six months, next season might be postponed. It's too early to tell what'll happen. Hopefully COVID19 goes away and football returns soon.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bild reports Dortmund's Moukoko is allowed to play for their Bundesliga team from November on.
Let's hoe there will be a regular season by then. Should be fun to watch.
Amtlich! BVB-Juwel Moukoko darf ab November Bundesliga spielen


----------



## YNWA14

Bon Esprit said:


> Bild reports Dortmund's Moukoko is allowed to play for their Bundesliga team from November on.
> Let's hoe there will be a regular season by then. Should be fun to watch.
> Amtlich! BVB-Juwel Moukoko darf ab November Bundesliga spielen



Came here to post this. Should be really interesting to see if he translates his game up. Though I’m not sure about the long term effects of having a 16 year old playing in the top league. Hope they manage him properly if he’s the real deal.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

YNWA14 said:


> Came here to post this. Should be really interesting to see if he translates his game up. Though I’m not sure about the long term effects of having a 16 year old playing in the top league. Hope they manage him properly if he’s the real deal.




I don't think the long-term effect is much. The DFL has been willing to make exceptions to the normal rule that you have to be 17 to play, but there are almost never 16 year olds good enough to play in the Bundesliga squads. You rarely even see 17 year olds play in the Bundesliga. There has been a recent push to change the rule anyway that wasn't about Moukoko. It's a sensible change. Allow 16 year olds, if they are good enough, but it's unlikely most seasons that any 16 year olds will see the field because there usually aren't any that are good enough.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bon Esprit said:


> I doubt there will be any games in front of fans in 2020. Maybe they can complete the season somehow.
> TBH I don't think many teams, esp. in 2.. 3. and Regionalliga, will survive if the pandemia lasts.
> 
> Stay at home and stay healthy.



13 der 36 Profiklubs droht Insolvenz - noch in dieser Saison

And I bet the situation in the lower leagues is even worse.


----------



## Lambo

Bon Esprit said:


> 13 der 36 Profiklubs droht Insolvenz - noch in dieser Saison
> 
> And I bet the situation in the lower leagues is even worse.



Alemannia Aachen, Wuppertaler SV are very at risk. Big traditions clubs in my region.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Lambo said:


> Alemannia Aachen, Wuppertaler SV are very at risk. Big traditions clubs in my region.



Wattenscheid 09 is already dead.

Many don't realize that the 3. Liga contains (with a few exceptions) only former Bundesliga/GDR Oberliga clubs. Some even won championships (Lautern, 60, Braunschweig or Hansa for example).


----------



## Lambo

Bon Esprit said:


> Wattenscheid 09 is already dead.
> 
> Many don't realize that the 3. Liga contains (with a few exceptions) only former Bundesliga/GDR Oberliga clubs. Some even won championships (Lautern, 60, Braunschweig or Hansa for example).



Particular Lautern. 4 times german Champion and 2x DFB-Trophy. In the 90s a very heavy contender with loud and passionate Fans. Even Bayern went to Betzenberg with fear. In that time i could never have imagined that such a club disappear from picture.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Thomas Müller extended with Bayern 'til 23.

Bruno takes over Hertha. Good luck with that.


----------



## YNWA14

Muller is one of the most productive players in the world this season.


----------



## Bon Esprit

And all of a sudden the Nübel signing makes sense. Bild reports Neuer demands 20m per year and wants an extention until he's 39yo. WTF?
Yes, it's Bild and Neuer is a good player and all, but this must be a joke.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Lok Leipzig sold 125,000 tickets (for 1 Euro each) for a virtual game against an unkown opponnent. Their stadium has a capacity of less than 12,000 visitors.
Reminds me of the "Weltpokalsiegerbesieger" t-shirt event of FC St. Pauli. Great story and thanks to the supporters.
Stay healthy.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Zorc is one of the best sporting directors in world football. Hopefully he just wants to move to a different role at the club, but if he leaves Dortmund, the club is going to suffer and he could pick his destination.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Dortmund-Schalke 0:8. LOL


----------



## Bon Esprit

Davies extended with Bayern until 2025.

In other news: The plan is Bundesliga continues on May 9th.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Davies extended with Bayern until 2025.




They should’ve waited a month to announce it. The picture with four of them around a table with masks on looks very unprofessional.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bon Esprit said:


> Davies extended with Bayern until 2025.
> 
> *In other news: The plan is Bundesliga continues on May 9th*.




The plan fell through. It will re-start when the politics say it's okay. Bavaria and NRW supported the plan, but I was wondering how the clubs would manage it. Most of the stadiums aren't not their property and there is always the question about security (groups of fans in front of the stadium like in late march).


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> The plan fell through. It will re-start when the politics say it's okay. Bavaria and NRW supported the plan, but I was wondering how the clubs would manage it. Most of the stadiums aren't not their property and there is always the question about security (groups of fans in front of the stadium like in late march).




I wouldn't say the plan fell through, I'd say it's been adjusted and unsurprisingly so. It was always obvious that approval from the authorities would be necessary.


----------



## Cassano

Miroslav Klose becomes assistant coach at Bayern


----------



## Bure80

Paul van Dyk is BVB supporter. He will play sunday in the empty stadium.
Paul Van Dyk


----------



## Bon Esprit

2 players of Köln were tested positive with Corona.

Timo Werner won't join Bayern, Sane to Bayern is getting closer,

Source is Bild.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Bon Esprit said:


> The plan fell through. It will re-start when the politics say it's okay. Bavaria and NRW supported the plan, but I was wondering how the clubs would manage it. Most of the stadiums aren't not their property and there is always the question about security (groups of fans in front of the stadium like in late march).




what’s the feeling in Germany on restarting? It’s it inevitable? Or still a feeling of hope, less reality (like England feels to me)


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

East Coast Bias said:


> what’s the feeling in Germany on restarting? It’s it inevitable? Or still a feeling of hope, less reality (like England feels to me)




I read and view German media every day..and my impression is that its the same dichotomy you see on the exit from lockdown debate in general. "We are going to do it" optimism vs "Hmm this is really risky..lets wait a little a longer" skepticism. 

I think the league is basically 100% on restarting within the next weeks, but on the political side theres more of that split. And the politicians need to give the go ahead. 

The Cologne positive tests kinda show that where the official league response is that those tests are no big deal due to the hygiene rules in place, while others are basically saying it kills the whole thing. 

The whole premise of the league‘s concept is basically under the microscope here. The league basically says that an infected person can work around healthy people without infecting them if the rules are followed properly. That theory will now be tested. And of course that is ultimately the rationale behind all measures to relax the lockdown, so theres actually a lot of ideas on trial.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Cassano said:


> Miroslav Klose becomes assistant coach at Bayern



Miro surely is one of the most likeable ex-players I know, but I have a hard time to imagine him being a coach in the Bundesliga at some point of his career. He is simply too polite. Nonetheless, I wish him luck. great person.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Klaus Filbry (head of the financial department) admitted yesterday that Werder Bremen is in deep financial trouble.
We already know about Schalke 04 being in trouble. I bet it's just the tip of the eisberg. I'd think only Bayern, BvB, RB and Hoffenhein and maybe one or two more could survive 2020 without playing football.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Hertha have suspended Salomon Kalou from the team after a video emerged (from his own live stream) showing him high fiving and shaking hands with a bunch of teammates and other staff in the dressing room. 

I think that's the real weakness of the DFL concept - the expectation that footballers and the ex-footballers operating as staff in clubs can actually reliably follow the rules as laid out in the concept. Everyone who's played football knows that the changing room atmosphere is very jokey with a lot of sophomoric behavior, and you can always count on a few outright idiots being on a team. Given that most players likely feel pretty much invincible to the virus due to their good health and high level of fitness, I think it's fair to say every club will also have its share of "covidiots".


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

So those other teammates and staff wont be suspended for shaking hands and high 5ing?


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

They apparently were reprimanded and given additional training on the rules. Kalou initiated the contact, so he got the harshest punishment.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## YNWA14

I really hope it goes through, and goes well. Excited to see Davies take the pitch again.

Don't get me wrong it's not overly boring re-watching Liverpool's semifinal triumph (away and home) versus Barcelona every day but I'm craving live footy.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> So those other teammates and staff wont be suspended for shaking hands and high 5ing?



Apparently Kalou got suspended because he made it public by posting it on fb or whereever it was.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Erzgebirge Aue put the entire team under quarantine, because one trainer (or non-player) was tested positive.
Alle Aue-Profis vorerst in häuslicher Quarantäne


----------



## John Price




----------



## Bon Esprit

Roman Fell said:


>




That's good news for the fans and the clubs. Many clubs are in deep financial trouble.
I heard somewhere that there is a possibilty some games might be on free tv to avoid fans partying in front of the stadiums.


----------



## Bon Esprit

I leave that here for the Dortmund guys
Acht Stars auf BVB-Streichliste!

Schulz
Akanji
Dahoud
Götze
Schürrle
Wolf
Toprak
Toljan

Just in case it's behind the paywall in a few minutes.


----------



## Prntscrn

You can always trust the Germans. Beer, football, cars etc you name it. Welcome back football


----------



## Halladay

I normally watch the Bundesliga on Saturday mornings and Im very looking forward to this.


----------



## JoemAvs

Thats actually a huge chance and also huge responsibility for German Football...

If everything goes well, they will get the type of attention a league can only dream of.
Which could lead to a ton of extra $$$ considering that some TV contracts are coming up soon.

Given that Spain and the UK are atleast a couple of weeks behind when it comes to opening up things, they will have an unprecedented amount of attention put on their league. If I am the DFL, I would take advantage of that and compress the schedule a bit to get as many games into these few weeks early as you can in regards to players health and safety in order to maximize fan interest all around the world and try to get as many fans all around the globe interested in the Bundesliga as possible.

They also can't allow this to go bad and another mishap like Kalou could ruin it for sports all around the world...


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

All things considered im glad i'll be able to watch some footy.


----------



## PanniniClaus

JoemAvs said:


> Thats actually a huge chance and also huge responsibility for German Football...
> 
> If everything goes well, they will get the type of attention a league can only dream of.
> Which could lead to a ton of extra $$$ considering that some TV contracts are coming up soon.
> 
> Given that Spain and the UK are atleast a couple of weeks behind when it comes to opening up things, they will have an unprecedented amount of attention put on their league. If I am the DFL, I would take advantage of that and compress the schedule a bit to get as many games into these few weeks early as you can in regards to players health and safety in order to maximize fan interest all around the world and try to get as many fans all around the globe interested in the Bundesliga as possible.
> 
> They also can't allow this to go bad and another mishap like Kalou could ruin it for sports all around the world...



I agree. Tremendous opportunity here. 

I'll need Sportsnet world in Canada which i don't have. I buy DAZN and BEIN Sports. Maybe buy a month just to get some footy in.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Any one think Dortmund or Leipzig can win the league?

There's some really good odds on non Bayern teams to win the league right now

My 401k may have taken a pounding, but my betting accounts are right where I left em in March.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

East Coast Bias said:


> Any one think Dortmund or Leipzig can win the league?
> 
> There's some really good odds on non Bayern teams to win the league right now
> 
> My 401k may have taken a pounding, but my betting accounts are right where I left em in March.




Either team could win the league, but if you are putting money somewhere, put it on Bayern. With a four point lead when they were at their best, I would say its over, but Bayern hasn't been at their best the last number of seasons. 

Dortmund has been bad all season, and it's ridiculous that we are only four points back. I don't think we are playing well enough to win the league, even if Bayern isn't playing that much better. Leipzig was playing great football, but had a bad string of results that lost them the league lead pretty quickly. This break might help them more than the other two teams, and I think if they continue playing the football they had been playing in the first half of the season, they could challenge Bayern.


----------



## YNWA14

Bayern will win. Davies will ensure it.


----------



## Bon Esprit

The season will continue on May 16th and end on 28th of June. Relegation games and Cup (DfB, not DfL) are not set yet.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Bon Esprit said:


> The season will continue on May 16th and end on 28th of June. Relegation games and Cup (DfB, not DfL) are not set yet.



Do they have a protocol in place for players/staff testing positive for Coronavirus? Would they quarantine anyone that's been in contact?


----------



## Burner Account

I’m as eager to see the logistics as I am the football.


----------



## Pensionsraddare

Prntscrn said:


> You can always trust the Germans. Beer, football, cars etc you name it. Welcome back football




You forgot the most important.


----------



## Salzig

Jersey Fresh said:


> Do they have a protocol in place for players/staff testing positive for Coronavirus? Would they quarantine anyone that's been in contact?




I guess not. Since they're testing literally testing everyone, only the players with positive test results will be quarantined. They already had some positive tests during the first phase and only the positive tested players had to quarantine. However, it is up to the local authorities (usually municipalities) to decide who has to be quarantined.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Dortmund signed 16yo Nnamdi Collins to a 3 year pro-contract, City and Chelsea were after the player, too.
Mario Götze was told, that he won't get a new contract, he must leave BvB after this season. With no fee to pay I could see him end up in Italy.

source is sport1. I don't post a link, because their website is annoying.


----------



## Cassano

Bon Esprit said:


> Dortmund signed 16yo Nnamdi Collins to a 3 year pro-contract, City and Chelsea were after the player, too.
> Mario Götze was told, that he won't get a new contract, he must leave BvB after this season. With no fee to pay I could see him end up in Italy.
> 
> source is sport1. I don't post a link, because their website is annoying.



Gotze would probably be great in Italy. Maybe a key player for a team like Lazio.


----------



## Maverick41

Bon Esprit said:


> Dortmund signed 16yo Nnamdi Collins to a 3 year pro-contract, City and Chelsea were after the player, too.
> Mario Götze was told, that he won't get a new contract, he must leave BvB after this season. With no fee to pay I could see him end up in Italy.
> 
> source is sport1.* I don't post a link, because their website is annoying*.




I used to visit their site every day until like 2 or 3 years ago (or maybe it has been even longer) when they tried to force me to disable adblock to view their articles, which I would have done if their ads weren't so terribly annoying in their placement and triggers. Sometimes I only had to move my mouse over an ad and that would trigger an annoyingly loud ad video to play. That made the navigation of the site impossible, and I have not been back since then.
I have no idea if it is still that bad, but I don't really want to go to find out. So thanks for not posting the link.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Maverick41 said:


> I used to visit their site every day until like 2 or 3 years ago (or maybe it has been even longer) when they tried to force me to disable adblock to view their articles, which I would have done if their ads weren't so terribly annoying in their placement and triggers. Sometimes I only had to move my mouse over an ad and that would trigger an annoyingly loud ad video to play. That made the navigation of the site impossible, and I have not been back since then.
> I have no idea if it is still that bad, but I don't really want to go to find out. So thanks for not posting the link.



Bingo, that's what I mean. Ads everywhere, loud videos that I don't need etc. Not my business.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Kicker.de is all you need.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

We had eight players missing from training today. How do so many players get injured when there is no football being played?


----------



## PeteWorrell

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> We had eight players missing from training today. How do so many players get injured when there is no football being played?



They have not trained and played in months at this point; they are not fit at all. It is like if you stopped going to the gym for weeks and then went back doing what you used to do right away, you are asking for an injury.


----------



## Bon Esprit

The Hannover-Dresden game is postponed, because the entire Dresden team is in Corona-quaratine.


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Kicker.de is all you need.



Right, Pretty oldschool and slow, but at least reliable and no annoying ads and auto-videos.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

PeteWorrell said:


> They have not trained and played in months at this point; they are not fit at all. It is like if you stopped going to the gym for weeks and then went back doing what you used to do right away, you are asking for an injury.




That makes sense, but I would think that this could be mitigated by easing them back into training instead of going back into full training right away. I also would think that the players are expected to stay in playing shape during the pause of the season.


----------



## BKIslandersFan

Bon Esprit said:


> The Hannover-Dresden game is postponed, because the entire Dresden team is in Corona-quaratine.



Shameful.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Bon Esprit said:


> The Hannover-Dresden game is postponed, because the entire Dresden team is in Corona-quaratine.




Im not sure what they're trying to accomplish here tbh.


----------



## Live in the Now

They can't have games to finish the season unless they bring all the teams to one huge location that nobody else is allowed in or out of. I don't know why this is so hard for people to accept. Should the players agree to go to what is basically prison? I dunno, not for me to say. I don't know if such a place even exists.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Yeah, I'm not optimistic that any sport can come back right now without spreading the virus. The choices are force the players into isolation or likely spread a respiratory disease that can cause long-term lung damage in healthy people in a profession that demands fully functioning lungs. Neither alternative should be palatable to players.


----------



## PeteWorrell

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> That makes sense, but I would think that this could be mitigated by easing them back into training instead of going back into full training right away. I also would think that the players are expected to stay in playing shape during the pause of the season.



Normally players can stay in shape during the off season because they are allowed to train in groups and in training facilities. That is not the case right now where gyms are closed so they cannot even do basic exercises. There is only so much you can do by yourself at home.


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> We had eight players missing from training today. How do so many players get injured when there is no football being played?



Are they all injuries though? Any possibility that it’s players choosing to or being forced to stay home?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> Are they all injuries though? Any possibility that it’s players choosing to or* being forced to stay home*?




Something something fascism.


----------



## YNWA14

Deficient Mode said:


> Yeah, I'm not optimistic that any sport can come back right now without spreading the virus. The choices are force the players into isolation or likely* spread a respiratory disease that can cause long-term lung damage in healthy people* in a profession that demands fully functioning lungs. Neither alternative should be palatable to players.




Out of curiosity is there a source for this? I'm just wondering if this is like an anomalous thing or more likely to happen than say any other viral infection potentially causing long term issues with the lungs.


----------



## Bon Esprit

YNWA14 said:


> Out of curiosity is there a source for this? I'm just wondering if this is like an anomalous thing or more likely to happen than say any other viral infection potentially causing long term issues with the lungs.



Johns Hopkins say this:
What Coronavirus Does to the Lungs


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

SJSharks39 said:


> Are they all injuries though? Any possibility that it’s players choosing to or being forced to stay home?




Thats a good point, and I don't know the answer. Witsel, Can and Hakimi are all in doubt for the game against Schalke, so likely injuries. Reus and Zagadou had previous injuries. Schmelzer, Akanji and Goetze are the unaccounted for absences.


----------



## YNWA14

Bon Esprit said:


> Johns Hopkins say this:
> What Coronavirus Does to the Lungs



So basically there’s very little chance, if any, of there being lasting lung damage in a young, healthy and properly cared for person.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Live in the Now said:


> They can't have games to finish the season unless they bring all the teams to one huge location that nobody else is allowed in or out of. I don't know why this is so hard for people to accept. Should the players agree to go to what is basically prison? I dunno, not for me to say. I don't know if such a place even exists.



3. Liga is considering this
3. Liga: Antrag auf neutrale Spielorte

Let's face it: The football landscape will change, if they can finish the season. Not only 1. , 2 or 3rd league. And not only in Germany.

The other day I read on Zeit.de an article on Volleyball. IIRC 3 of the top clubs already are (almost) bancrupt and won't participate on the highest level next season. Volleyball don't have tv coverage/money, but football Regionalliga and lower don't have either.
ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder imPUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.


----------



## BKIslandersFan

YNWA14 said:


> So basically there’s very little chance, if any, of there being lasting lung damage in a young, healthy and properly cared for person.



its. Not. About. Them.

Christ almighty.


----------



## Deficient Mode

YNWA14 said:


> So basically there’s very little chance, if any, of there being lasting lung damage in a young, healthy and properly cared for person.




There haven't been studies of the long-term effects of the disease for obvious reasons, but there have been for respiratory diseases caused by viruses in the same family: The emerging long-term complications of Covid-19, explained



> One small longitudinal study published in _Nature_ followed 71 SARS patients from 2003 until 2018 and found that more than a third had residual scarring, which can mean reduced lung capacity. MERS is a little harder to extrapolate from, since fewer than 2,500 people were infected, and somewhere between 30 and 40 percent died. But one study found that about a third of 36 MERS survivors also had long-term lung damage.
> Gholamrezanezhad has recently done a literature review of SARS and MERS and says that for this subset of people, “The pulmonary function never comes back; their ability to do normal activities never goes back to baseline.”
> Additionally, Covid-19 scarring rates may end up being higher than SARS and MERS patients because those illnesses often attacked only one lung. But Covid-19 appears to often affect both lungs, which Gholamrezanezhad says escalates the risks of lung scarring.




Even if the rate of long term organ damage is significantly lower for healthy adults, there is probably a high chance that a player suffers this type of scarring if the virus spreads to all of them. There have been plenty of stories of healthy young people with mild symptoms who haven't been able to exercise for months after their symptoms were alleviated.


----------



## YNWA14

BKIslandersFan said:


> its. Not. About. Them.
> 
> Christ almighty.



Learn how to read.


----------



## BKIslandersFan

YNWA14 said:


> Learn how to read.



They still spread the virus to people who are more susceptible to die from it.


----------



## YNWA14

BKIslandersFan said:


> They still spread the virus to people who are more susceptible to die from it.



Which has nothing to do with what was being discussed.


----------



## BKIslandersFan

YNWA14 said:


> Which has nothing to do with what was being discussed.



yes it does. You want players to never see their families for months and months?


----------



## YNWA14

BKIslandersFan said:


> yes it does. You want players to never see their families for months and months?



Is that what I said, or what I asked?


----------



## BKIslandersFan

YNWA14 said:


> Is that what I said, or what I asked?



So in other words, let people die for your amusement.

Cool.


----------



## YNWA14

BKIslandersFan said:


> So in other words, let people die for your amusement.
> 
> Cool.



Just so we're clear.

I ask what evidence there is that there could be long term lung damage done to healthy people. Based on what they said, basically, there is no evidence of this aside from links to much worse respiratory viruses. 

You say that they can spread it to others. (Not sure what this has to do with my question.)

I tell you to learn how to read.

You say that they spread the virus to people who are still susceptible to it. (Still unsure what this has to do with my question.)

I say that has nothing to do with what I asked.

You say it does, and ask me if I want the players not to see their families for months and months. (Still unsure what this has to do with what I asked.)

I ask you if that's what I said or asked.

You tell me I want people to die for my amusement. (Okay?)

Sadly, this is not at all surprising.


----------



## YNWA14

Deficient Mode said:


> There haven't been studies of the long-term effects of the disease for obvious reasons, but there have been for respiratory diseases caused by viruses in the same family: The emerging long-term complications of Covid-19, explained
> 
> Even if the rate of long term organ damage is significantly lower for healthy adults, there is probably a high chance that a player suffers this type of scarring if the virus spreads to all of them. There have been plenty of stories of healthy young people with mild symptoms who haven't been able to exercise for months after their symptoms were alleviated.



I don't really see any evidence there that there will be long term scarring on healthy people with proper care (ie, young, rich footballers), aside from anomalous cases. Aside from anecdotal evidence of 'young, healthy people' who had mild symptoms it seems a little far fetched to say that a healthy individual has not been able to exercise for months after symptoms were alleviated given when the virus started spreading. Maybe we have different definitions of young and healthy, but I do think that's a larger problem in general. The comparisons to much more aggressive respiratory viruses don't make a distinction in their cases for scarring either so I would imagine that they're not isolating that to 'young and healthy people' and again, in a much more aggressive and dangerous virus.


----------



## BKIslandersFan

YNWA14 said:


> Just so we're clear.
> 
> I ask what evidence there is that there could be long term lung damage done to healthy people. Based on what they said, basically, there is no evidence of this aside from links to much worse respiratory viruses.



This is not a question that should be asked in regards to football. People that will be affected by this disease is probably not the footballers, but their family and people who work with footballers. The fact that you are wiling to play this mental gymnastics tells me you don't care how people are affected. Wild.


----------



## YNWA14

BKIslandersFan said:


> This is not a question that should be asked in regards to football. People that will be affected by this disease is probably not the footballers, but their family and people who work with footballers. The fact that you are wiling to play this mental gymnastics tells me you don't care how people are affected. Wild.




I ask a question about a specific point, but somehow I'm playing mental gymnastics to get where we are in this conversation.


----------



## BKIslandersFan

YNWA14 said:


> I ask a question about a specific point, but somehow I'm playing mental gymnastics to get where we are in this conversation.



Exactly where were you trying to go with that question, if not suggesting its ok for football to continue because they are all young and probably won't die from rona?

Its a wrong question to ask.


----------



## Deficient Mode

YNWA14 said:


> I don't really see any evidence there that there will be long term scarring on healthy people with proper care (ie, young, rich footballers), aside from anomalous cases. Aside from anecdotal evidence of 'young, healthy people' who had mild symptoms it seems a little far fetched to say that a healthy individual has not been able to exercise for months after symptoms were alleviated given when the virus started spreading. Maybe we have different definitions of young and healthy, but I do think that's a larger problem in general. The comparisons to much more aggressive respiratory viruses don't make a distinction in their cases for scarring either so I would imagine that they're not isolating that to 'young and healthy people' and again, in a much more aggressive and dangerous virus.




We have a different definition of anomalous too. You obviously won't find thorough, clinical studies of long-term damage given the novelty of the disease. The burden is on the DFB and anyone who wants the sport back to prove that this definitely won't happen. Even if hospitalization, long-term organ damage, and death are more infrequent among young and disease-free people or less than slightly more severe viral diseases, I would bet on one of these of the entire population of several hundred footballers in the Bundesliga _were exposed _given the available statistics_. _It's unlikely that professional athletes will be exempt from the consequences that other "young and healthy" people have faced because they have great cardio and great physiques if the disease worsens with an overactive immune response like many scientists believe.

I don't think it's probable that numerous athletes die or something similarly grave given the restrictions and testing they have in place. I just don't think that they should even risk the possibility and liability of endangering the players, to say nothing of the much bigger issue of the players spreading it to others, as many have said.


----------



## YNWA14

BKIslandersFan said:


> Exactly where were you trying to go with that question, if not suggesting its ok for football to continue because they are all young and probably won't die from rona?
> 
> Its a wrong question to ask.




I don't think you're really the authority on what is a right or wrong question, nor are there really 'right or wrong questions' (within reason) in general. Questions are important. Questions can often help you sift through what is true or not, and force people to think critically about what they're saying or doing. My question, in this instance, was pretty simple...I just wanted to see if there was any basis for saying that the virus 'cause long-term lung damage in healthy people' -- to me this isn't about suggesting it's okay for football to continue this is about learning more about the virus and not spreading unsubstantiated fear.

I get it, there are a lot of people that are deathly afraid of what this virus is. What's going on in the world is scary enough without spreading false information in either direction. Questions open discussion and discussion is still important.



Deficient Mode said:


> We have a different definition of anomalous too. You obviously won't find thorough, clinical studies of long-term damage given the novelty of the disease. The burden is on the DFB and anyone who wants the sport back to prove that this definitely won't happen. Even if hospitalization, long-term organ damage, and death are more infrequent among young and disease-free people or less than slightly more severe viral diseases, I would bet on one of these of the entire population of several hundred footballers in the Bundesliga _were exposed _given the available statistics_. _It's unlikely that professional athletes will be exempt from the consequences that other "young and healthy" people have faced because they have great cardio and great physiques if the disease worsens with an overactive immune response like many scientists believe.




I don't think it's fair to say that MERS and SARS are 'slightly more severe' than COVID. You're talking about a mortality rate of nearly 15% (SARS) and nearly 35% (MERS). That is a significant difference in severity when compared to COVID. If there's no proof that this long term damage exists among the population we're talking about, then the absence of proof of something doesn't need to be disproven by something else. Can you provide any concrete examples of people say 35 and under, who were in good shape and had no underlying health conditions, that have had long term scarring?



> I don't think it's probable that numerous athletes die or something similarly grave given the restrictions and testing they have in place. I just don't think that they should even risk the possibility and liability of endangering the players, to say nothing of the much bigger issue of the players spreading it to others, as many have said.



I think that's a fair stance to take if that's your belief, and you're completely risk averse to this. Based on the links that have been posted I just don't see any evidence of long term scarring on the lungs of 'young, healthy and well cared for' individuals who have had the virus, or that it's likely to happen.


----------



## Deficient Mode

YNWA14 said:


> I don't think it's fair to say that MERS and SARS are 'slightly more severe' than COVID. You're talking about a mortality rate of nearly 15% (SARS) and nearly 35% (MERS). That is a significant difference in severity when compared to COVID. If there's no proof that this long term damage exists among the population we're talking about, then the absence of proof of something doesn't need to be disproven by something else. Can you provide any concrete examples of people say 35 and under, who were in good shape and had no underlying health conditions, that have had long term scarring?
> 
> 
> I think that's a fair stance to take if that's your belief, and you're completely risk averse to this. Based on the links that have been posted I just don't see any evidence of long term scarring on the lungs of 'young, healthy and well cared for' individuals who have had the virus, or that it's likely to happen.




Again, there is no "proof" of long term effects as researchers and hospitals are focused on other aspects of the pandemic right now, and those that do do not differentiate between previously young, healthy people vs older previously ill people. It may also be too early to study if the lung damage is progressive and permanent in most cases. Anecdotally, you can easily find the stories of people who have reduced lung function 2 months after their symptoms diminished. There is one in the article I posted above for instance. And while younger, healthy people are hospitalized less often, it's unclear that those hospitalized are less likely to suffer organ damage.

Too little is known about the disease and its long term effects, and the comparison to the long-term effects of other coronaviruses should bear a lot of weight. SARS and MERS had a large disparity in mortality rate, but apparently had similar rates of lung damage. A lower mortality and hospitalization rate doesn't mean that the incidence of long-term damage among those hospitalized is also lower. I think that it is a mistake to assume that the players will be exempt from the negative consequences of the disease, again, aside from the obvious issue of them spreading it to others.


----------



## YNWA14

Deficient Mode said:


> Again, there is no "proof" of long term effects as researchers and hospitals are focused on other aspects of the pandemic right now, and those that do do not differentiate between previously young, healthy people vs older previously ill people. It may also be too early to study if the lung damage is progressive and permanent in most cases. Anecdotally, you can easily find the stories of people who have reduced lung function 2 months after their symptoms diminished. There is one in the article I posted above for instance. And while younger, healthy people are hospitalized less often, it's unclear that those hospitalized are less likely to suffer organ damage.
> 
> Too little is known about the disease and its long term effects, and the comparison to the long-term effects of other coronaviruses should bear a lot of weight. SARS and MERS had a large disparity in mortality rate, but apparently had similar rates of lung damage. A lower mortality and hospitalization rate doesn't mean that the incidence of long-term damage among those hospitalized is also lower. I think that it is a mistake to assume that the players will be exempt from the negative consequences of the disease, again, aside from the obvious issue of them spreading it to others.



Right...so what's the point of saying they could be spreading something that has long term effects on young and healthy people if there's no evidence or proof either way? There are a lot of reasons to bring up as to why they shouldn't play. I don't have any issue with someone who believes one way or the other. I also don't think that the players are exempt from the negative effects of the disease persay, but they are definitely among the lowest risk people possible outside of children. Most logic and what was posted from John Hopkins indicates that that younger healthier people are definitely less likely to suffer organ damage though. I'm not an epidemiologist or a virologist so I don't know the specifics, but reading that page about COVID and its possible effects certainly seems to point toward young, healthy and well cared for people who are infected by the virus have a much lower chance, if any, of having long term damage. Not only are footballers among the healthiest from a physical standpoint they also have access to the best possible medical care as well as early detection, etc.

There are plenty of reasons as to why someone might not want to play right now though, and I think that the leagues/players kind of need to come to some kind of agreement. They're either going to accept the risk that there are some who will get infected and get sick and have a plan in place for that, or they need to shut it down. Quarantining and delaying every time a player tests positive doesn't seem to make sense since it seems inevitable that they will.


----------



## gary69

I think if they going to seriously try to play the season until the end and not quarantine the whole team when some members test positive, it would seem they they need to do a version of what Pence is doing. 

Test everybody at least a couple of times a day and use rapid results tests during matchdays to clear players an hour or so before kick-off. If the result is negative an hour before the kick off, it's unlikely that there would be many cases where someone turns positive during a match. Alas, rapid test everyone again after the match.


----------



## Bon Esprit

The Austrians restart, too.

There are plans to restart the women's Bundesliga and 3. Liga, too. Cup game could continue on June 9th and 10th.
DFB gibt Re-Start-Termin für 3. Liga und Pokalansetzungen bekannt


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Can and Witsel are both ruled out for the game against Schalke.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Can and Witsel are both ruled out for the game against Schalke.



Sucks for you. Reus is still injured, too. Right?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Sucks for you. Reus is still injured, too. Right?




Reus, Zagadou, Goetze and Schmelzer all also injured. The latter two barely play, but the former two would've played a big part. Akanji's wife is due to give birth to a baby soon, so he was allowed to leave the team for the time being. Thomas Delaney will probably find his way back into the team immediately. He hasn't played since October because of injury. Balerdi might also play. @Duchene2MacKinnon

Dortmund is resuming this season at the wrong time. Big derby against Schalke coming up this weekend, who plays extra physical against us, and then Bayern in two weeks. A lot of players are out right now, and I don't think any of the main ones, Reus, Zagadou, Can, Witsel will definitely be fit for the Bayern game.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Reus, Zagadou, Goetze and Schmelzer all also injured. The latter two barely play, but the former two would've played a big part. Akanji's wife is due to give birth to a baby soon, so he was allowed to leave the team for the time being. Thomas Delaney will probably find his way back into the team immediately. He hasn't played since October because of injury. Balerdi might also play. @Duchene2MacKinnon
> 
> Dortmund is resuming this season at the wrong time. Big derby against Schalke coming up this weekend, who plays extra physical against us, and then Bayern in two weeks. A lot of players are out right now, and I don't think any of the main ones, Reus, Zagadou, Can, Witsel will definitely be fit for the Bayern game.



meh we'll see... last year he was rated pretty high for me but right now I don't consider him in the top 5 most promising CBs for Argentina.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Kicker reports City demands 50m € for Sane, Bayern bids 40m. Well, okay, but wasn't he supposed to cost something in 100m range last year?


----------



## PeteWorrell

Bon Esprit said:


> Kicker reports City demands 50m € for Sane, Bayern bids 40m. Well, okay, but wasn't he supposed to cost something in 100m range last year?



The big injury and being unsettled brought his valuation down.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Kicker reports City demands 50m € for Sane, Bayern bids 40m. Well, okay, but wasn't he supposed to cost something in 100m range last year?




I wouldn’t regard the report. Kicker are always wrong about Bayern news.


----------



## robertmac43

I'm just happy SportsNet is broadcasting all the Buli games on their main channels this weekend! Usually only one game is shown a week on the SN world channel!


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

robertmac43 said:


> I'm just happy SportsNet is broadcasting all the Buli games on their main channels this weekend! Usually only one game is shown a week on the SN world channel!



Nice i totally forgot i have to go back to ky streams since dazn nor bein have it. Smh 35$ a month and cant get all the leagues


----------



## Bon Esprit

PeteWorrell said:


> The big injury and being unsettled brought his valuation down.



I know about the injury. But I doubt this is the only reason. You can buy Dembele for 60m € for example. 
These days it's not that easy to sell problem players (injury/and/or behaviour) for a ridiculous amount of money. Good development I think.


----------



## Bon Esprit

robertmac43 said:


> I'm just happy SportsNet is broadcasting all the Buli games on their main channels this weekend! Usually only one game is shown a week on the SN world channel!



Maybe because only Buli plays this weekend?


----------



## robertmac43

Bon Esprit said:


> Maybe because only Buli plays this weekend?



Well yeah. They must be stoked to have the rights to the one major sport returning. You can only broadcast the same reruns of hockey so many times...


----------



## Deficient Mode

Good article about the increased risk of injuries with players out of peak shape and a condensed schedule: Coronavirus: Are Bundesliga players at higher risk of injury on return? | DW | 13.05.2020


----------



## robertmac43

With the BuLi being the only big league on this weekend, I was thinking it may be worth it to have a pinned match day thread. I'm assuming more people from this board will be watching and it may be nice to not completely overrun this thread. Thoughts?


----------



## Jussi

robertmac43 said:


> With the BuLi being the only big league on this weekend, I was thinking it may be worth it to have a pinned match day thread. *I'm assuming more people from this board will be watching* and it may be nice to not completely overrun this thread. Thoughts?




Nope. Zero interest in Bundesliga, especially without fans.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Yet you still ventured here...


----------



## PanniniClaus

robertmac43 said:


> With the BuLi being the only big league on this weekend, I was thinking it may be worth it to have a pinned match day thread. I'm assuming more people from this board will be watching and it may be nice to not completely overrun this thread. Thoughts?



I'm in...live footy and actually on regular sportsnet..Bring it on.


----------



## East Coast Bias

robertmac43 said:


> With the BuLi being the only big league on this weekend, I was thinking it may be worth it to have a pinned match day thread. I'm assuming more people from this board will be watching and it may be nice to not completely overrun this thread. Thoughts?




I bet on nearly every match. 2 months felt like 2 years. I’m ready.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

East Coast Bias said:


> I bet on nearly every match. 2 months felt like 2 years. I’m ready.




For this round of games this is like throwing darts while blind-folded. No-one knows what exactly will happen this weekend.


----------



## Bon Esprit

So, Heiko Herrlich got suspended for ignoring quaratine. Good start at your new job, Heiko. A real role model.


----------



## East Coast Bias

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> For this round of games this is like throwing darts while blind-folded. No-one knows what exactly will happen this weekend.




Yup. The lines were a definitely weird. And even as we go through it, there won’t be enough time to figure out the impact of a neutral venue on each team.


----------



## John Price




----------



## Prntscrn

Footy is back, studio is official live! I'm like a kid at christmas morning, so excited


----------



## Pensionsraddare

Prntscrn said:


> Footy is back, studio is official live! I'm like a kid at christmas morning, so excited




I haven't missed Bojan at all...


----------



## Prntscrn

Pensionsraddare said:


> I haven't missed Bojan at all...




Looking at my avatar I guess you can figure out my opinion about him. Like him better on TV than on the pitch though


----------



## Prntscrn

Roman Fell said:


>





Injured during warmup..


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Sancho injured before the game. His replacement Reyna in the warmup. Hazard will start instead. Speculating, but I doubt any of this happens without this long layoff. Dortmund has so many injuries right now that a guy from the second team I've never heard of is on the bench. 

These pre-match protocols are so bizarre.


----------



## GeorgeLeafer12

0-0 - 22 min


----------



## robertmac43

Great goal, hilarious celebration. Way to maintain the 6ft there Dortmund!


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I cannot wait until Dahoud is sold in the summer.


----------



## Halladay

I totally forgot that there was soccer on!


----------



## ecemleafs

schalkes keeper doesnt look like hes ever kicked a ball before today.


----------



## Burner Account

Great half from Brandt in particular IMO


----------



## Deficient Mode

Quarantine hasn't dulled Brandt's skill.


----------



## robertmac43

Hakimi has also looked good, doesn't look like he has weathering a pandemic the past few weeks.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

kyle evs48 said:


> Great half from Brandt in particular IMO




It's a shame he got injured when he did because I thought that was the difference in the Champions League against PSG. The two month break seems to have helped him catch up to everyone else in fitness and form. He's such a difference maker centrally in the final third, but he gets none of the hype that Sancho and Haaland get. Good for us because we will have almost no pressure to sell him anytime soon.


----------



## Mitch nylander

Brandt, Hakimi and Hazard have had a good half.


----------



## Halladay

Haaland looks hurt.


----------



## GeorgeLeafer12

3-0 already for Dortmund.....


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Dortmund 1-(-2) Schubert


----------



## Deficient Mode

An embarrassing match for Schubert. Hope Haaland is ok.


----------



## SJSharks72

I like having no fans a lot more than having fans.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Seems like some of the Dortmund players are tiring.


----------



## SJSharks72

Deficient Mode said:


> Seems like some of the Dortmund players are tiring.



I mean understandable. Basically preseason shape


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> Seems like some of the Dortmund players are tiring.




Great time to get Morey and Raschl their debuts.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Great time to get Morey and Raschl their debuts.




I'm expecting Favre not to use all the available subs or use them in the last five minutes given his usual aversion to rotating players.


----------



## GeorgeLeafer12

Wow.....


----------



## Deficient Mode

That finish by Guerreiro haha. Schalke haven't shown much at all. I expected this to be sloppier and low scoring.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Favre was serious. Balerdi the midfielder.

I guess it doesn't matter and you can try anything up 4-0.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

3rd best player in Bundesliga getting on.... finally


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Alright, that's enough spotlight on us. Start the other leagues again. 

Ed Woodward might turn on our game, and decide to overpay for Brandt.


----------



## Mitch nylander

I'm tracking statistics for a bundesliga pool. Anyone have a website that shows the amount of tackles for each individual player?

ESPN and Bundesliga website don't seem to show every player's stats for today's game.


----------



## SJSharks72

Mitch nylander said:


> I'm tracking statistics for a bundesliga pool. Anyone have a website that shows the amount of tackles for each individual player?
> 
> ESPN and Bundesliga website don't seem to show every player's stats for today's game.



Don’t know for sure but whoscored might be one.


----------



## Mitch nylander

SJSharks39 said:


> Don’t know for sure but whoscored might be one.




Thanks, I'll check.


----------



## Jussi

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Yet you still ventured here...




For Coronavirus information re: German football.


----------



## GeorgeLeafer12

Well that was one sided...


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Leipzig somehow drew with Freiburg. They are now four back, and Bayern has a game in hand. I think they're out of it at this point.

Let's see how Bayern does tomorrow against Union. Lead temporarily down to one point.


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Leipzig somehow drew with Freiburg. They are now four back, and Bayern has a game in hand. I think they're out of it at this point.
> 
> Let's see how Bayern does tomorrow against Union.



Leipzig lost. That goal is going to count. Never mind no goal should have been a goal though


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

SJSharks39 said:


> Leipzig lost. That goal is going to count. Never mind no goal should have been a goal though




I just saw. Goal in stoppage time. Probably doesn't make a huge difference towards the table. They couldn't lose or draw and keep pace.


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I just saw. Goal in stoppage time. Probably doesn't make a huge difference towards the table. They couldn't lose or draw and keep pace.



Yeah I think this run of form makes them keep Werner for at least another season. They live and die by his goals.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Hertha with a great result away at Hoffenheim. You would have thought Hoffenheim would be used to playing without fans.


----------



## nickp91

Dortmund looked like they never took a 2 month break


----------



## robertmac43

SJSharks39 said:


> I like having no fans a lot more than having fans.




This is definitely a take, what's the reasoning?

Edit: I read down and saw said reasoning.


----------



## SJSharks72

robertmac43 said:


> This is definitely a take, what's the reasoning?
> 
> Edit: I read down and saw said reasoning.



Yeah it’s just a nice change of pace. The players also look more relaxed (see Guerreiro’s goal) which could be good or bad.


----------



## GeorgeLeafer12

Just over 30 seconds and Frankfurt allows a goal.


----------



## robertmac43

Make that 2 already. Gladbach with another solid 'social distance' celebration.


----------



## Power Man

robertmac43 said:


> Make that 2 already. Gladbach with another solid 'social distance' celebration.



How was Bensebaini?


----------



## AB13

Those Eintracht Frankfurt jerseys might be the absolute ugliest in football history


----------



## robertmac43

Power Man said:


> How was Bensebaini?




In the celebration or the game thus far? ;p He has been pretty good. Got an assist on the second goal, won a race down the left-side and put a good ball in for Thuram.


----------



## robertmac43

Not Surprising given the circumstances. It will be interesting to see the stats after a few weeks.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Zagadou out for the season. Tough.


----------



## Power Man

robertmac43 said:


> In the celebration or the game thus far? ;p He has been pretty good. Got an assist on the second goal, won a race down the left-side and put a good ball in for Thuram.



Thanks


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> Zagadou out for the season. Tough.




Obviously bad news, but does it help finally make Favre adjust and decide that he simply can't sit back with a lead and think his team can hold it? And maybe it leads to us playing more games where we go behind or don't lead early on. That forces Favre's hand in that regard.

I believe the only way we can win the title is 90 minutes of attacking football instead of the usual 60 minutes of attacking and getting a lead, 25 minutes playing very defensively where we allow 2-3 goals, and then back to five minutes of attacking because we are about to throw away points.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Its ok Balerdi is here


----------



## robertmac43

Power Man said:


> Thanks




He just scored a PK. Not the greatest PK, Trapp guessed right and looked as though he would make the safe, ball just got through him.


----------



## robertmac43

How the **** did Hoffman not score there. I hope Frankfurt come back just because of that.


----------



## ItsFineImFine

I thought Dortmund kinda just had to sleepwalk to win that. Felt like a pre-season game where a really good team is playing a team from some smaller European league like Denmark.

Also really didn't mind the lack of crowd, the commentators on BT sucked but you get used to the silence after 5 minutes. People are too obsessed with romanticizing atmosphere.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Why do I get the sense that a club that prioritizes winning over shareholder returns would manage to keep Sancho for a while longer...





Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Obviously bad news, but does it help finally make Favre adjust and decide that he simply can't sit back with a lead and think his team can hold it? And maybe it leads to us playing more games where we go behind or don't lead early on. That forces Favre's hand in that regard.
> 
> I believe the only way we can win the title is 90 minutes of attacking football instead of the usual 60 minutes of attacking and getting a lead, 25 minutes playing very defensively where we allow 2-3 goals, and then back to five minutes of attacking because we are about to throw away points.




He's still gonna do that, just with a different player. And honestly the bigger issue is probably the games their attack hasn't functioned against far weaker opponents than the leads they've choked.


----------



## robertmac43

ItsFineImFine said:


> Also really didn't mind the lack of crowd, the commentators on BT sucked but you get used to the silence after 5 minutes. People are too obsessed with romanticizing atmosphere.




I don't know about that. Good atmospheres are hard to replicate in general, plus they add a certain energy to the game and players. 

I will admit I was surprised at how quickly I got over the lack of crowd but I would still far rather have a packed house to watch.


----------



## robertmac43

Funny stuff here:


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

robertmac43 said:


> I don't know about that. Good atmospheres are hard to replicate in general, plus they add a certain energy to the game and players.
> 
> I will admit I was surprised at how quickly I got over the lack of crowd but I would still far rather have a packed house to watch.



I watched a few games in Serie A before the lockdown... for me it's a big difference tbh. Not saying its unwatchable but the fans bring something to the games for sure.


----------



## Cassano

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I watched a few games in Serie A before the lockdown... for me it's a big difference tbh. Not saying its unwatchable but the fans bring something to the games for sure.



Training ground atmosphere.


----------



## YNWA14

The crowd makes a big difference, most definitely. Even if they're not particularly loud.


----------



## ItsFineImFine

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I watched a few games in Serie A before the lockdown... for me it's a big difference tbh. Not saying its unwatchable but the fans bring something to the games for sure.




In fairness, Serie A games aren't watchable even with crowds. It doesn't help that most stadiums have weird camera angles and an olympic track and that the presentation of Serie A games has still for some reason a lower camera saturation making for a less vivid picture.

I really am not buying these articles though of 'German soccer returns but with lonely goal celebrations'. I can assure you that once you're in the game, you kinda forget about the outside and you just play. As a fan, I just watch, it's pretty easy to be submerged if the game is good which I think would be the case even more so for NHL playoff games with faster action.


----------



## PanniniClaus

Caligiuri was the ass of the day. Threw his armband when being subbed and didn't even look at his young team mate as he was waiting to be subbed in. All around brutal day for Schalke...

2nd game saw Frankfurt completely sleepwalk onto the pitch. They started playing with about 15 minutes left when down 3-0..

Glad to have the Bundesliga back.. two more matches tomorrow.


----------



## Bon Esprit

The best tean yesterday was Schalke 04. They were the only ones who understood the concept of "social distancing" perfectly.


----------



## robertmac43

ItsFineImFine said:


> I can assure you that once you're in the game, you kinda forget about the outside and you just play.




And I think this can be a major negative to the play. The intensity and sense of urgency that 40 thousand fans bring to the atmosphere of a game can help add to the excitement.

If it's quiet and a player turns off or is not on his game, there is nothing there to push him. As @Duchene2MacKinnon said, it becomes a training ground atmosphere.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

I think it will differ from player to player. A lot of guys probably try to tune out the crowd as much as possible, so for them this is probably the best vibe they ever had. Other guys try to soak it all in and get energy from the crowd, for them it will be a worse experience. 

But remember all of them used to play in front of tiny or non-existing crowds all the way to being called up for the first team of a pro club and in order to get to that point they had to perform at their best in those crowd-free atmospheres, so it's not like they have no experience with the scenario.


----------



## robertmac43

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> But remember all of them used to play in front of tiny or non-existing crowds all the way to being called up for the first team of a pro club and in order to get to that point they had to perform at their best in those crowd-free atmospheres, so it's not like they have no experience with the scenario.




True that. I think it will be an adjustment period of a couple games for most players; just like it is when you go from small ground to a big league.


----------



## Mitch nylander

Anyone have word on why Sebastien Andersson isn't playing?


----------



## PanniniClaus

I use Elite prospects for my hockey information, is there a comparable site for football? soccerway is decent but I feel there could be something better.


----------



## PanniniClaus

Mitch nylander said:


> Anyone have word on why Sebastien Andersson isn't playing?



Listed as being on the bench...may not be fully fit. Should see some subs here soon.


----------



## Mitch nylander

PanniniClaus said:


> I use Elite prospects for my hockey information, is there a comparable site for football? soccerway is decent but I feel there could be something better.




Whoscord is great for in game statistics. Very in depth.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ndesliga-2019-2020-Union-Berlin-Bayern-Munich


----------



## robertmac43

Mitch nylander said:


> Anyone have word on why Sebastien Andersson isn't playing?




I think it's a lingering knee injury that has kept him out.


----------



## robertmac43

PanniniClaus said:


> I use Elite prospects for my hockey information, is there a comparable site for football? soccerway is decent but I feel there could be something better.




Football Transfers, Rumours, Market Values, News and Statistics is alright. I find as a stats website it is getting better over time.


----------



## THE HOFF

The game between gladbach and frankfurt made my eyes bleed. The rust is real hahah


----------



## Power Man

robertmac43 said:


> He just scored a PK. Not the greatest PK, Trapp guessed right and looked as though he would make the safe, ball just got through him.



Yeah I saw that it was a bit soft
It’s the Ramadhan effect imo


----------



## YNWA14

PanniniClaus said:


> I use Elite prospects for my hockey information, is there a comparable site for football? soccerway is decent but I feel there could be something better.



Transfermarkt, sofascore and whoscored are the top 3. I liked Squawka a lot but it’s under maintenance.


----------



## PanniniClaus

Thanks all for your input on websites.


----------



## Cassano

This organized pressing by Bayern is so beautiful.


----------



## robertmac43

Dude is fast, that's for sure.


----------



## Cassano

robertmac43 said:


> Dude is fast, that's for sure.




Just another play by the best defender in the world...


----------



## les Habs

I would be very careful with stats from Transfermarkt. I've found their numbers to be wrong when cross referenced with other sites on a couple of occasions. I personally only use them as a gauge for players in leagues I can't get stats from and for transfer figures.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

PanniniClaus said:


> I use Elite prospects for my hockey information, is there a comparable site for football? soccerway is decent but I feel there could be something better.




Transfermarkt


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

les Habs said:


> I would be very careful with stats from Transfermarkt. I've found their numbers to be wrong when cross referenced with other sites on a couple of occasions. I personally only use them as a gauge for players in leagues I can't get stats from and for transfer figures.




I know what you’re saying, but their stats might differ from another website like a few minutes over the course of a season and maybe they’ll disagree about credit for an assist or two over the course of a season. It’s not a wide dispersion. If you actually analyze the discrepancies, these are judgement calls, not errors.


----------



## les Habs

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I know what you’re saying, but their stats might differ from another website like a few minutes over the course of a season and maybe they’ll disagree about credit for an assist or two over the course of a season. It’s not a wide dispersion. If you actually analyze the discrepancies, these are judgement calls, not errors.




I actually saw discrepancies regarding goals.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Ballon d’Or submission video.


----------



## ItsFineImFine

Goretzka was not good today, Coman was a lot better when he was subbed on for him.

Speaking of which, these coaches are taking too long to use up their subtitutions, Bayern didn't even use all five and didn't make the second until past the 80th minute. Dortmund were late to make them yesterday too. Now's a good time to get everyone playing.


----------



## robertmac43

ItsFineImFine said:


> Goretzka was not good today, Coman was a lot better when he was subbed on for him.
> 
> Speaking of which, these coaches are taking too long to use up their subtitutions, Bayern didn't even use all five and didn't make the second until past the 80th minute. Dortmund were late to make them yesterday too. Now's a good time to get everyone playing.




Bayern was sloppy today in general. You could tell they were out of practice, lot of sloppy passes!


----------



## Hadoop

Watched BvB/Schalke, Koln/Mainz and Bayern/Union Berlin over the weekend. Think I saw more rust than my local junkyard.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Well taken header by Kai... guess he can play CF


----------



## PanniniClaus

The weakness of Bremen there for all to see. Had Diaby doubled on the wing but let him get the edge to get his cross in. Havertz gets between the CB and Gebre Selassie. Quality from Leverkusen but Bremen just bleed goals. No fault of the keeper there. 

As i'm writing...Bremen get a much needed punch back from Gebre Selassie... his 2nd of the year.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Another one for Kai... another header. Hes continued where he left off. How did anyone think hes having an off year lol


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Sloppy passes eveywhere


----------



## Mitch nylander

Anyone know when Coutinho is estimated to be back


----------



## PanniniClaus

My god that is easy for Leverkusen


----------



## YNWA14

Florian Wirtz was one of the '03s I had planned to mention in my prospect list. He's very talented. Him and Luca Netz were who I had tabbed to be the most likely German '03s to first start making an impact.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Werder only has one hope: HSV don't get promoted, so it's not that painful.
God, there is no chance they stay in the league.


----------



## robertmac43

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Sloppy passes eveywhere




Probably the most consistent thing about the first weekend back was the sloppiness of it all.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Neuer extended with Bayern until 2023. No numbers available yet. Originally he wanted a 5-year extention (from 2021) worth 10m per. 
Good deals for both I think and Nübel might be happy, too. Früchtl will be gone on loan. Many winners.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Bon Esprit said:


> Neuer extended with Bayern until 2023. No numbers available yet. Originally he wanted a 5-year extention (from 2021) worth 10m per.
> Good deals for both I think and Nübel might be happy, too. Früchtl will be gone on loan. Many winners.



That should end any "speculation" for MAtS


----------



## Bon Esprit

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> That should end any "speculation" for MAtS



Was there any?


----------



## Bon Esprit

3. Liga has covid19 cases, too now. After Chemnitz Kaiserslautern also reports positives.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Bon Esprit said:


> Was there any?



Just on here


----------



## Bon Esprit

3. Liga will restart on May 30th. I hope this ends well.

Btw, I forgot Sven Ulreich in the Bayern goalie post. He has one year left and is a real good backup. I guess he will get a job in the Bundesliga. IIRC he's 31 or 2 yo.


----------



## PanniniClaus

Battle of Berlin underway.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Union are being put in their place.


----------



## John Pedro

Matheus Cunha


----------



## Deficient Mode

Tough day for cgf. Stay strong.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Hertha have quietly creeped back up


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

It doesn't sound like Witsel will be fit to face Bayern in midweek. Maybe from the bench, but from the start seems highly unlikely. Sancho, Can and Reyna should be good to go this weekend. 

This guy had the exact same idea as I did for the lineup against Wolfsburg. You can't throw Can back in there right away from the start. Get him like 30 minutes, and then he should be good to start against Bayern in place of Delaney.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Palacios not even on the bench... injured?


----------



## Savant

So that Kai Havertz guy


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Savant said:


> So that Kai Havertz guy



Insane player


----------



## GeorgeLeafer12

Hows that a penalty????


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

GeorgeLeafer12 said:


> Hows that a penalty????



Even in real time i was confused although the commentators were convinced but the replay gave them some doubts. Not a pk for me. Funny enough the other side had a better shout earlier.

Kai 4 goals in 2 games. Barca might be better off buying kai instead of lautaro


----------



## Jersey Fresh

These Wolfsburg kits are hideous.

And this red card is insane. What a terrible call, no chance that was deliberate or reckless.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Disappointed by Borussia Mon but Bayer keep rolling and now are 3rd... 5 points away from top spot.


----------



## Savant

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Even in real time i was confused although the commentators were convinced but the replay gave them some doubts. Not a pk for me. Funny enough the other side had a better shout earlier.
> 
> Kai 4 goals in 2 games. Barca might be better off buying kai instead of lautaro



Kai might be a better fit for LFC than Werner (although he will cost twice as much). People like to say it’s hard to find players to play that Firmino role. Havertz fits that role like a glove.


----------



## robertmac43

The BuLi is a fun league to watch as a neutral, I wish in non-Covid times the games were more readily available in Canada!


----------



## PanniniClaus

Davies with an assist..Muller with a fine finish. Frankfurt are a mess.


----------



## SJSharks72

Man what the f*** is happening in this game?  wild


----------



## Cassano

Another 9/10 performance from Phonzie. Just becoming a daily routine for him.


----------



## PansCyans

He was probably the best player on the pitch


----------



## TMLeafer

What an entertaining match. 

Davies is a monster. Just non-stop up and down that left side. Only 19. Canada Soccer better get this right.

Having no supporters last week was strange but I didn't really notice it that much today. Anyone else?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Frankfurt will find themselves in the same place that Hamburg are and Cologne were if they don’t eventually change their manager. I think they could go down next season. It’s clear that it was the players last season that brought them success.


----------



## Cassano




----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Frankfurt will find themselves in the same place that Hamburg are and Cologne were if they don’t eventually change their manager. I think they could go down next season. It’s clear that it was the players last season that brought them success.



Frankfurt was good last year because of the three "ic" and Haller. Three are gone and they couldn't replace them properly. Fredi Bobic tried hard, but always said they wouldn#t be able to replace them with the little money they have.


----------



## Lambo

Kai Havertz turns its value to infitiy. Incredible player!


----------



## BKIslandersFan

Is Alphonso Davies already the greatest Canadian footballer of all time?


----------



## robertmac43

BKIslandersFan said:


> Is Alphonso Davies already the greatest Canadian footballer of all time?




Yeah I would say so. Atiba has had a great career and de Guzman had a solid career in Europe in recent years, neither of them were ever as good as Davies is right now.


----------



## PanniniClaus

BKIslandersFan said:


> Is Alphonso Davies already the greatest Canadian footballer of all time?



Would like to have Craig Forrest and Paul Stalteri in the current team in their prime but yes...we've simply had nothing like Davies. Hope we can say the same about Jonathan David.


----------



## robertmac43

PanniniClaus said:


> Would like to have Craig Forrest and Paul Stalteri in the current team in their prime but yes...we've simply had nothing like Davies. Hope we can say the same about Jonathan David.




Toronto Lynx alum Stalteri! Both good shouts, I think Davies has past them both at this point. Stalerti won the double with Bremen, which is a pretty massive accomplishment for a Canadian. Davies has done that already and is in the argument for best in his position. Plus only being 19 I think he to be given the edge.


----------



## Cassano

BKIslandersFan said:


> Is Alphonso Davies already the greatest Canadian footballer of all time?



Easily. No one else played as long and at a high level for such a strong team.

Scary thing is, he's the 2nd best player on Canada.


----------



## YNWA14

Davies isn’t the 2nd best player. He’s the best. David is fantastic too though.

Who would have seen this coming from a guy no where near as good as Pulisic?


----------



## Albatros

Cassano said:


> Easily. No one else played as long and at a high level for such a strong team.


----------



## Cassano

YNWA14 said:


> Davies isn’t the 2nd best player. He’s the best. David is fantastic too though.
> 
> Who would have seen this coming from a guy no where near as good as Pulisic?



I agree, but:


----------



## Cassano

Albatros said:


>



Never played for Canada


----------



## Albatros

Only because he was _too _good.


----------



## Bon Esprit

De Guznan and Stalteri had good careers in Germany. I was sad when Guz left Hannover. Is Hargreaves really considered Canadian? I mean he played for England. If so, he is the best Canadian to play in Germany.
IMO Davies is a complete different animal. He can become a very special player. I'm glad he plays in Bundesliga.


----------



## Albatros

Hargreaves was born and raised in Canada, but was dumped by their junior selection which apparently left him sour, and so after moving to Germany he started flirting with Wales instead. Once he achieved his breakthrough England came calling and that was that then.


----------



## YNWA14

I mean...at this point the sky is the limit for Davies.


----------



## PanniniClaus

Albatros said:


> Hargreaves was born and raised in Canada, but was dumped by their junior selection which apparently left him sour, and so after moving to Germany he started flirting with Wales instead. Once he achieved his breakthrough England came calling and that was that then.



I remember this. I am hopeful that those responsible for overlooking Hargreaves don't work in soccer anymore.

I see Owen on DAZN's premier league coverage and it seems he is doing well. I do hope he stays where he is and never comes back...he was a bit part in some underachieving English teams. I wish the national team setup was better then but it is what it is. De guzman and Begovic were two others although they also achieved very little with their respective national teams. In fact they are both pretty much off the map.


----------



## Cassano

Albatros said:


> Hargreaves was born and raised in Canada, but was dumped by their junior selection which apparently left him sour, and so after moving to Germany he started flirting with Wales instead. Once he achieved his breakthrough England came calling and that was that then.



Was he even top 5 English midfielder? Not sure if that was the best intl career choice, although playing for England is a a whole new level compared to most teams.


----------



## Albatros

Cassano said:


> Was he even top 5 English midfielder? Not sure if that was the best intl career choice, although playing for England is a a whole new level compared to most teams.




Had England played more with #6 it could perhaps look different, obviously he was not as good as Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, but for that particular position he was at least no worse than the other defensive options like Butt and Carrick.


----------



## Cassano

Albatros said:


> Had England played more with #6 it could perhaps look different, obviously he was not as good as Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, but for that particular position he was at least no worse than the other defensive options like Butt and Carrick.



Caerrick is better imo


----------



## Stray Wasp

robertmac43 said:


> Yeah I would say so. Atiba has had a great career and de Guzman had a solid career in Europe in recent years, neither of them were ever as good as Davies is right now.




Tomasz Radzinski is another Canadian international who had a solid career in Europe. Admittedly, he appears to have emigrated to Canada aged about 16, therefore owed relatively little to Canadian youth football.


----------



## Stray Wasp

Cassano said:


> Was he even top 5 English midfielder? Not sure if that was the best intl career choice, although playing for England is a a whole new level compared to most teams.




Hargreaves was a useful asset to the top-heavy national team in the mid 00s.

Even though operating within the limited brief of defensive midfielders, while respected he was never considered remarkable.


----------



## Albatros

Stray Wasp said:


> Tomasz Radzinski is another Canadian international who had a solid career in Europe. Admittedly, he appears to have emigrated to Canada aged about 16, therefore owed relatively little to Canadian youth football.




Grzegorz Lato had been managing North York Rockets at the time and took him in, so he started as a professional from day one despite his young age.


----------



## Burner Account

Sounds like Mainz has someone upstairs pressing buttons for different crowd reactions


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I don't know which of Leverkusen or Gladbach I'd prefer to get the fourth CL spot. I think Rose is the second best coach in the league, and could do a very good job in the Champions League, but I also think Bosz has the better squad, and I don't think they'd even suffer much without Havertz. Thats going to be a good battle for the fourth spot, and if Leipzig doesn't watch out, they could be brought into a 2 for 3 situation.


----------



## SJSharks72

YNWA14 said:


> Davies isn’t the 2nd best player. He’s the best. David is fantastic too though.
> 
> Who would have seen this coming from a guy no where near as good as Pulisic?



Yep I’ll admit it. Davies has had a huge leap. I don’t think you could really fault me at the time for preferring Pulisic who was playing most matches for Dortmund at the tine over Davies who was still in the MLS.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

SJSharks39 said:


> Yep I’ll admit it. Davies has had a huge leap. I don’t think you could really fault me at the time for preferring Pulisic who was playing most matches for Dortmund at the tine over Davies who was still in the MLS.




And Pulisic has been great this season, when fit. This is in a league we are told is so much better than what he played in previously. This is the best season he’s had, so he’s clearly improving.

I don’t see the need to turn this into a debate. I don’t know why some instantly turn to that type of thought. Be glad that your player is succeeding. Because we all know that CONCACAF teams are no meaningful benchmark. None of us are that good. A benchmark should be success on the world stage.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Welcome back, Schalke. Good old times are back again.

Last ten games:

1 win 4 ties 5 losses.

Last game they scored more than 1 goal was on Jan. 17th.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Welcome back, Schalke. Good old times are back again.
> 
> Last ten games:
> 
> 1 win 4 ties 5 losses.
> 
> Last game they scored more than 1 goal was on Jan. 17th.




When your backup keeper is so much worse than your starter and results matter, why would you continue to play the back up? I don’t understand any of Wagner’s decisions. Kutucu should also play a lot more than he does. Harit and Kutucu are the only two decent attackers they have. I also think Mascarell has been a big miss recently. McKennie and Serdar are both good players, but not holding midfielders like Mascarell is. They play better in front of the holding midfielder.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Eating 22 goals in 10 games is one thing, scoring only 4 in that period is lousy. Wagner was supposed to be a saviour, which he isn't. This and the mess in Schnitzel Toennies' empire makes it a complete desaster (again).
Good old S04.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> Eating 22 goals in 10 games is one thing, scoring only 4 in that period is lousy. Wagner was supposed to be a saviour, which he isn't. This and the mess in Schnitzel Toennies' empire makes it a complete desaster (again).
> Good old S04.




Things go from bad to worse for Schalke.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Thiago won’t play tomorrow. Witsel and Gnabry have a chance to return.


----------



## Savant

Stray Wasp said:


> Tomasz Radzinski is another Canadian international who had a solid career in Europe. Admittedly, he appears to have emigrated to Canada aged about 16, therefore owed relatively little to Canadian youth football.



Best Canadian soccer player of all time is Christine Sinclair


----------



## PanniniClaus

Got to watch parts of 7 games this past weekend. The football will get better...there are big games ahead and none bigger than Tuesday.

I will say that Mainz performance against Leipzig bordered on unprofessional. Aaron Martin doing a snow angel around the six yard box while Sabitzer scored...i'd be asking for an explanation on what he was doing there. I'm fairly certain Muller wanted to grab him by the throat but is far too professional for that.


----------



## Albatros

Ultimately the failure in Mainz is that of their transfer policy, investing more the last few years has not brought better results and as bad as Aaron has been he's not the only one. Wouldn't miss any of them, but Schröder and the rest of the club leadership has to take the primary responsibility for putting together a dysfunctional team.


----------



## Bon Esprit

First of all: Good luck to the BvB guys here. I'd rather see Dortmnd win than Bayern.

Having Hummels AND Can back should help. On the other hand we all know this is a must win game for Borussia. A tie would not be enough.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Flick goes with the expected lineup with no Thiago. Favre sticks with the same lineup he's used the last two weeks. Sancho on the bench. Bold strategy.


----------



## PanniniClaus

No Sancho is bold for sure.


----------



## al secord

Davies handling Haaland.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Dortmund's buildup is really a struggle right now.


----------



## robertmac43

Dahoud seems out of his depth thsus far, not fast enough both physically and in his decision making.


----------



## PansCyans

What a recovery from AD


----------



## PansCyans

Nice chip. Keeper caught in no man’s land.


----------



## PanniniClaus

Artistry from Kimmich but I would have expected a tip over the bar...or at least off the bar. Burki needed a save there.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

holy shit what a goal


----------



## robertmac43

Jeeze, what a goal by Kimmich there!


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Amazing from Kimmich, though Burki I think should've gotten it


----------



## kingsboy11

Burki got a big piece of that ball, probably should've done better with that. Still an excellent chip from Kimmich.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Take a bow boy


----------



## Hadoop

I realize it's not the same without fans, but this biggest matchup in the post-COVID world is living up to my expectations so far.

P.S. No Wrestlemania/The Last Dance/The Match/etc. doesn't quite have the same appeal for this sport fan.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Brandt off is weird as hell


----------



## Cassano

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Brandt off is weird as hell



Horrible cross. Could've set up a tap in.


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Hakimi is a frustrating player. Has bags of forward ability but always stops in his tracks and kills the momentum.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Brandt off is weird as hell




Not his best match imo. Good going forward but just not relieving pressure in build up. Though I don't know if Sancho will help with that.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Dortmund robbed of a penalty there, I think


----------



## Deficient Mode

Should have been a hand ball and penalty.


----------



## bluesfan94

Reyna drawing a yellow from Davies. A preview of CONCACAF future


----------



## Cassano

Davies yellow for getting the ball. Lol


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Cassano said:


> Davies yellow for getting the ball. Lol




At least it was consistent, Dahoud got a yellow for a ball-first challenge too. Both were wrong.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

That should do the title, terrific match


----------



## Hadoop

Well fought match. Very impressed with Davies; held his own against some very dangerous attackers from BvB.


----------



## Cassano

Not really surprising. Bayern even when playing average just get these big results in domestic games. Everyone fears playing them and they capitalize. 

With injuries piling up for Dortmund, they may be in a bit of trouble for securing CL spot.


----------



## PansCyans

Leverkusen taking it on the chin


----------



## Mitch nylander

Wow....


----------



## kingsboy11

Come on Wolfsburg. You know you want to bring on Llanez


----------



## Lambo

Congrats Bayern for 8th Title in row. Bayern the eternal champion! My prediction Bayern win 19 DM Titles in next 20 years.
Leverkusen is crazy! Trashed by Wolfsburg. Wrong pills today?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Cassano said:


> Not really surprising. Bayern even when playing average just get these big results in domestic games. Everyone fears playing them and they capitalize.
> 
> With injuries piling up for Dortmund, they may be in a bit of trouble for securing CL spot.




I don't think they're dinked up enough to give up a 4 point lead to two separate inferior teams in just 6 matches. Depends if Haaland actually misses any matches.


----------



## DrMartinVanNostrand

Dismal game from Mönchengladbach. Had a chance to undo the damage of Saturday because of Leverkusen's loss, and instead they were, frankly, lucky to even get a draw against 17th place Bremen.

I'm not too optimistic about their chances at making the CL at this point. Four teams fighting for three spots, and I would rate all three of the other teams as having better squads.


----------



## BKIslandersFan

Another year, another Bayern title.

Christ, its gonna get Scottish Premiership bad, in terms of competitiveness.


----------



## ItsFineImFine

Dortmund's midfield is a black hole and the wingers didn't really do enough. Goretzka and Delaney are good Bundesliga level but average world level players. The difference though is that Kimmich was far better than Dahoud.

Also good on Davies for defending that flank well, Gnabry was not helping out at all defensively lol.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

BKIslandersFan said:


> Another year, another Bayern title.
> 
> Christ, its gonna get Scottish Premiership bad, in terms of competitiveness.




French league? PSG have now won 7 league titles in a row. And at least Bayern have dominated without Middle Eastern despots bankrolling it directly.


----------



## DrMartinVanNostrand

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> French league? PSG have now won 7 league titles in a row. And at least Bayern have dominated without Middle Eastern despots bankrolling it directly.




The disrespect forgetting Monaco's title in '16-'17 that broke up the streak. Lyon fans can still crow about 7-in-a-row for at least three more years until PSG do eventually match that.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

DrMartinVanNostrand said:


> The disrespect forgetting Monaco's title in '16-'17 that broke up the streak. Lyon fans can still crow about 7-in-a-row for at least three more years until PSG do eventually match that.




The funny thing is I specifically went to look it up, but there were just so many numbers in the 2010s for PSG that the 2016/17 missing really did not stand out.


----------



## BKIslandersFan

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> And at least Bayern have dominated without Middle Eastern despots bankrolling it directly.



Who cares?


----------



## Lambo

BKIslandersFan said:


> Another year, another Bayern title.
> 
> Christ, its gonna get Scottish Premiership bad, in terms of competitiveness.



In Italy(Juve), France(PSG), Spain(Barca, Real) we ve the same problem.


----------



## BKIslandersFan

Lambo said:


> In Italy(Juve), France(PSG), Spain(Barca, Real) we ve the same problem.



At least there is a title race in Spain.


----------



## Lambo

BKIslandersFan said:


> At least there is a title race in Spain.



Yes but in the last decades only Barca or Real Champion(One Exception Atletico). Currently is the PL the onsided league Nr. 1.


----------



## robertmac43

BKIslandersFan said:


> At least there is a title race in Spain.




Cause there hasn't been in Italy or Germany this year? Lazio and Juve are a point difference and up until today there were multiple teams within striking distance of Bayern.


----------



## BKIslandersFan

robertmac43 said:


> Cause there hasn't been in Italy or Germany this year? Lazio and Juve are a point difference and up until today there were multiple teams within striking distance of Bayern.



Every now and then your Napolis and Dortmunds tease us, but we all know who is going to win.


----------



## HajdukSplit

The Euro being delayed a year will definitely help Pongracic, I fear he actually wouldn't be called up if the Euro was held this summer due to 'loyalty' to the old guard


----------



## Deficient Mode

Bayern were certainly susceptible the past couple years with how slowly they started if Dortmund had put together a consistent campaign from start to finish. Dortmund really aren't quite as good as they generally were under Klopp or Tuchel despite a deeper, more talented, more expensive squad. Certainly not as good in big matches. The club's executives seem content with a flawed coach who will still get them second place as long as he gets along with everyone and they're still making money selling players.

I don't think Leipzig's team is quite at the level to win a title even if Bayern had a down year.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

That was the first game ive watched from Kai where he was not world class. Not sure what happened to Bayer they just folded. Wolfsburg came out with the exact opposite of their game against dortmund. Crazy what 3 days fan bring. Anyway cant wait for the weekend games. Lets hope Palacios finds his way out of the gulag.


----------



## Bon Esprit

And Bild knows Favre won't come back next season and BvB already talked with Niko Kovac. 
No link, because of paywall. Focus re reports as usual .
Netz spottet über Kovac-Gerüchte - aber würde Ex-Bayern-Coach zum BVB passen?

I don't think, Kovac would fit.


----------



## Chimaera

I mean, Bayern might not have Middle Eastern cash, but they do have a money advantage, and generally, an advantage on being able to get any German talent they really want.

It's not as bad as it has been in the past, but they do have a bit of a peak NY Yankees vibe where they could just go out each summer and get whatever they need or want from the contenders. 

The hard part for other clubs like Leipzig and Dortmund is even if they're catching Bayern on a down year, they still have some young talent coming up and through. Kimmich, Goretzka, Davies, Hernandez and others could be there for a decade!


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Absolute class from Klostermann, wow


----------



## Savant

Ironic that I tuned in to watch Werner, and Grujic scored


----------



## Chimaera

Grujic could play for a few EPL clubs. Not sure if Liverpool is one of them.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

That's one of the worst keeping errors I've ever seen


----------



## PanniniClaus

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> That's one of the worst keeping errors I've ever seen



that was really bad. well struck shot but he had made the save....how that ended up in the net is truly a wonder.


----------



## robertmac43

Dusseldorf with a massive result.


----------



## gary69

Albatros said:


> Ultimately the failure in Mainz is that of their transfer policy, investing more the last few years has not brought better results and as bad as Aaron has been he's not the only one. Wouldn't miss any of them, but Schröder and the rest of the club leadership has to take the primary responsibility for putting together a dysfunctional team.




One of their defenders (no. 42) is real hack, which should scare the opponents.


----------



## Lambo

Schalke on Pub-Team(Thekenmannschaft) level. This is more nearly to SSV Buer 07/28 than BVB.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> I don't think, Kovac would fit.




Kovac would just be the 1st step on their march down towards mid-table. After Kovac gets the sack after a year or two, they'd be looking at the Bruno Labbadias and Armin Vehs of the world.


----------



## Cassano

We are in a world where the best defender in Germany is a Canadian and the best hockey player in Canada is a German.


----------



## Bon Esprit

robertmac43 said:


> Dusseldorf with a massive result.



I'm honest: I want Werder getting relegated. Not because I dislike them, but it would be fun to watch Hamburg, Hannover and Bremen in one league. I'd be fine with Braunschweig getting promoted, too.

BTW. next weekend's top game will be Schalke vs. Bremen. Not gegen Elend. Distress vs. misery.


----------



## mfilipo3

HajdukSplit said:


> The Euro being delayed a year will definitely help Pongracic, I fear he actually wouldn't be called up if the Euro was held this summer due to 'loyalty' to the old guard




Which would be a huge mistake. Since Charlie retired, there is a huge drop-off in talent after Lovren and Vida. I'm not quite sold on Caleta-Car or Jedvaj either. Pongracic looks more promising (in my limited viewings of him) than those 2. Hopefully Benkovic pans out, needs some playing time. What's your take on Katic from Rangers getting a call up?


----------



## SJSharks72

Cassano said:


> We are in a world where the best defender in Germany is a Canadian and the best hockey player in Canada is a German.




Davies isn’t the best defender in Germany. He’s great at going forward but would get exposed without Alaba covering for him.


----------



## YNWA14

SJSharks39 said:


> Davies isn’t the best defender in Germany. He’s great at going forward but would get exposed without Alaba covering for him.



Do you have any examples of this? His defensive stats are pretty good.


----------



## SJSharks72

YNWA14 said:


> Do you have any examples of this? His defensive stats are pretty good.



I’m not saying he’s bad defensively by any stretch. I’m saying that he’s not the best.


----------



## Savant

Chimaera said:


> Grujic could play for a few EPL clubs. Not sure if Liverpool is one of them.



Same with Harry Wilson. Their sales were intended to be fodder for Werner release clause


----------



## YNWA14

SJSharks39 said:


> I’m not saying he’s bad defensively by any stretch. I’m saying that he’s not the best.



I haven't sat down to watch the games yet but form the highlights I just haven't seen any examples of this which is why I was asking. Most of the highlights involving Davies have been really good and his stats are fantastic. I'm not claiming he's the best defender in the BuLi but I'd definitely like to see an elaboration on how he'd be exposed or why you feel that way.


----------



## SJSharks72

YNWA14 said:


> I haven't sat down to watch the games yet but form the highlights I just haven't seen any examples of this which is why I was asking. Most of the highlights involving Davies have been really good and his stats are fantastic. I'm not claiming he's the best defender in the BuLi but I'd definitely like to see an elaboration on how he'd be exposed or why you feel that way.



I mean I could show you a reel of my highlights and I’d look better than Messi. Highlights aren’t a good way to judge a player. I don’t have specific examples and won’t be pulling up specific examples mostly because I don’t care enough or have the time to sift through hours of play.


----------



## YNWA14

SJSharks39 said:


> I mean I could show you a reel of my highlights and I’d look better than Messi. Highlights aren’t a good way to judge a player. I don’t have specific examples and won’t be pulling up specific examples mostly because I don’t care enough or have the time to sift through hours of play.



Highlights of the game, friend. I’ll just ignore the idea that he’d be ‘exposed’ if not for the saving grace of Alaba since there’s no evidence of this, I guess.


----------



## SJSharks72

YNWA14 said:


> Highlights of the game, friend. I’ll just ignore the idea that he’d be ‘exposed’ if not for the saving grace of Alaba since there’s no evidence of this, I guess.



It’s very easy to find evidence and if you want to go through the games be my guest but I definitely don’t have time for it  I understand that you love Davies and that he’s in the middle of his breakout year and it’s only natural to not see the flaws in his game but they’re there.


----------



## robertmac43

YNWA14 said:


> Highlights of the game, friend. I’ll just ignore the idea that he’d be ‘exposed’ if not for the saving grace of Alaba since there’s no evidence of this, I guess.




I think it's more that Davies has freedom to move up the pitch because Alaba is their for coverage. Alaba having been a Left Back knows where to position himself at CB in order to slow down opposing attacks. Davies then uses his blistering pace to get back into position, it's not as if he is getting rinsed by other wingers too frequently.

From a straight up defensive aspect, he has solid aerial and ground duel percentages. Last time I checked they were both in the mid 50s.


----------



## gary69

*Top 10 fastest Bundesliga players since records began in 2011-12*

1) Achraf Hakimi (22.67 mph / 36.49 km/h)
2) Rabbi Matondo (22.35 mph /35.97 km/h
3) Kingsley Ehizibue (22.3 mph / 35.85 km/h)
4) Kingsley Coman (22.16 mph / 35.66 km/h)
5) Jeremiah St. Juste (22.12 mph / 35.60 km/h)
6) Fabian Johnson (22.05 mph / 35.50 hm/h)
7) Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang (22.02 mph / 35.44 km/h)
8) Sheraldo Becker (22.01 mph / 35.43 km/h)
9) Lukas Klünter (21.99 mph / 35.40 km/h)
10) Artjoms Rudnevs (21.98 mph / 35.39 km/h)
=10) Jan Rosenthal (21.98 mph / 35.39 km/h)

Hakimi named Bundesliga's fastest player since data collection began | Goal.com

No Davies on the list yet.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Good god, a 19yo with 30 games played is considered the best defender in the Bundesliga? On Bayern are better defensive players!

Leave the kid alone, let him grow and develop. Then maybe, he will become a special player. And let him have more luck with injuries than Coman, who was considering retirement, because of his never-ending injury history.


----------



## YNWA14

Bon Esprit said:


> Good god, a 19yo with 30 games played is considered the best defender in the Bundesliga? On Bayern are better defensive players!
> 
> Leave the kid alone, let him grow and develop. Then maybe, he will become a special player. And let him have more luck with injuries than Coman, who was considering retirement, because of his never-ending injury history.



I don’t think there are many that consider him the best defender even on his own team.


----------



## YNWA14

robertmac43 said:


> I think it's more that Davies has freedom to move up the pitch because Alaba is their for coverage. Alaba having been a Left Back knows where to position himself at CB in order to slow down opposing attacks. Davies then uses his blistering pace to get back into position, it's not as if he is getting rinsed by other wingers too frequently.
> 
> From a straight up defensive aspect, he has solid aerial and ground duel percentages. Last time I checked they were both in the mid 50s.



Yeh and this was more to my point. It’s systemic and smart to use his incredible recovery speed to make up for the times where cover isn’t available. Most of his highlight clips defensively are of him covering for those guys that supposedly keep him from being exposed.


----------



## PanniniClaus

mfilipo3 said:


> Which would be a huge mistake. Since Charlie retired, there is a huge drop-off in talent after Lovren and Vida. I'm not quite sold on Caleta-Car or Jedvaj either. Pongracic looks more promising (in my limited viewings of him) than those 2. Hopefully Benkovic pans out, needs some playing time. What's your take on Katic from Rangers getting a call up?



I am in agreement on Pogracic over Jedvaj and Car. Jedvaj can be in the team but I feel they need better than Car in their 23.


----------



## Bon Esprit

HSV is just messing up a 2-0 halftime lead.


----------



## Cassano

SJSharks39 said:


> Davies isn’t the best defender in Germany. He’s great at going forward but would get exposed without Alaba covering for him.



BS, he's elite defensively (esp at getting back in position), despite having freedom to roam up. You've been downplaying him from the start of last season when a few posters said they'd take him over any American player.


----------



## SJSharks72

Cassano said:


> BS, he's elite defensively, despite having freedom to roam up. You've been downplaying him from the start of last season when a few posters said they'd take him over any American player.



And last season that was insane considering he wasn’t even playing for the first team. He isn’t elite defensively. He’s not necessarily a liability but he’s pretty similar to a left sided TAA.


----------



## Cassano

SJSharks39 said:


> And last season that was insane considering he wasn’t even playing for the first team. *He isn’t elite defensively*. He’s not necessarily a liability but he’s pretty similar to a left sided TAA.



It was not insane at all. None of the USMNT players were anything special and Davies was a special talent. The discussion was who would you take moving forward. 

Also for the bold, you keep saying this, but provide no evidence to back it up. You even claimed you didn't even watch the games in an earlier post...


----------



## SJSharks72

Cassano said:


> It was not insane at all. None of the USMNT players were anything special and Davies was a special talent. The discussion was who would you take moving forward.
> 
> Also for the bold, you keep saying this, but provide no evidence to back it up. You even claimed you didn't even watch the games in an earlier post...



No it wasn’t. It was about who you would take now. Doesn’t matter though.

that wasn’t mean that said I don’t watch the games. That was @YNWA14 saying he only watches highlights though. If you are going to make a claim that someone is the best it’s on you to provide the proof. I used the same amount of proof as you so.

Like I said before he’s not a liability. He’s just not anything special in his own end which is fine because of his quality going forward. If it was say Lucas on his side rather than Alaba, you’d see it a lot more but Alaba is able to cover for him allowing Davies the freedom to roam in a similar way but smaller scale that VVD covers for TAA and Robertson for Liverpool.


----------



## robertmac43

SJSharks39 said:


> Like I said before he’s not a liability. He’s just not anything special in his own end which is fine because of his quality going forward. If it was say Lucas on his side rather than Alaba, you’d see it a lot more but Alaba is able to cover for him allowing Davies the freedom to roam in a similar way but smaller scale that VVD covers for TAA and Robertson for Liverpool.




Hes spectacular in his own end. Not only does he win a lot of duels, getting a foot in on shots, cover a lot of ground , etc. He is great at beating the press and finding an option up the pitch. Makes a lot of good decisions under pressure.


----------



## YNWA14

SJSharks39 said:


> And last season that was insane considering he wasn’t even playing for the first team. He isn’t elite defensively. He’s not necessarily a liability but he’s pretty similar to a left sided TAA.




It wasn't insane at the time, or now. I explained why when I made those statements. A player doesn't have to be a starter for Bayern to be an elite/very special player, or talent.



SJSharks39 said:


> No it wasn’t. It was about who you would take now. Doesn’t matter though.
> 
> that wasn’t mean that said I don’t watch the games. That was @YNWA14 saying he only watches highlights though. If you are going to make a claim that someone is the best it’s on you to provide the proof. I used the same amount of proof as you so.
> 
> Like I said before he’s not a liability. He’s just not anything special in his own end which is fine because of his quality going forward. If it was say Lucas on his side rather than Alaba, you’d see it a lot more but Alaba is able to cover for him allowing Davies the freedom to roam in a similar way but smaller scale that VVD covers for TAA and Robertson for Liverpool.




I just don't see how a statement like this can be made, and the same goes for Trent, as the 'exposure' behind them is systemic in nature rather than due to their defensive positioning or abilities. In fact, TAA had a similar defensive success rate this season to Aaron Wan-Bissaka, he just competed in a lot fewer defensive duels because of his role in the system he plays in (similar to Davies).

Also I never said I 'only watch highlights'. I said I hadn't seen the most recent games yet, and was curious as to why you were making that statement as nothing I'd seen supported what you said. Wouldn't the onus be on you to prove your statement rather than the opposite since you're the one asserting he'd be exposed (with no way of quantifying this) and that he isn't elite defensively?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Cassano said:


> It was not insane at all. None of the USMNT players were anything special and Davies was a special talent. The discussion was who would you take moving forward.
> 
> Also for the bold, you keep saying this, but provide no evidence to back it up. You even claimed you didn't even watch the games in an earlier post...




What is this infatuation you have with always making comparisons to the US team or American players? I'm genuinely curious why.


----------



## Cassano

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> What is this infatuation you have with always making comparisons to the US team or American players? I'm genuinely curious why.



I dont lol. It was revisiting a debate made last season when a poster said theyd take David and Davies over any us player.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Its just about Canadas luck that they get a potential elite player and hes a wingback.


----------



## YNWA14

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Its just about Canadas luck that they get a potential elite player and hes a wingback.



He’s not really though and shouldn’t play there for Canada. I explained why in the Canada topic but he should play on the wing for Canada.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Dahoud is out for the season
Union suspended Sebastian Polter
Polter weist Vorwürfe "ausdrücklich zurück"


----------



## robertmac43

YNWA14 said:


> He’s not really though and shouldn’t play there for Canada. I explained why in the Canada topic but he should play on the wing for Canada.




If we had anything that related a coherent back-3 I would be more open to the idea of David playing LWB, with Laryea on the right side. Since CB is likely our weakest area, I'm fine with Adekugbe, Miller, and eventually Bassong (looking like a solid LB prospect) at LB in a back 4.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Davies becoming a good player has turned any thread he appears in to a Canada WJC thread.


----------



## YNWA14

Jersey Fresh said:


> Davies becoming a good player has turned any thread he appears in to a Canada WJC thread.



He’s been a good player for a long time. Like most highly talked about prospects when they’re excelling at a top team in one of the big 5 leagues at 19 he’s getting a lot of attention, yes.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

This youth on Bayer has quick feet


----------



## YNWA14

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> This youth on Bayer has quick feet



Wirtz? He’s fantastic. Not surprised he’s already playing senior.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

YNWA14 said:


> Wirtz? He’s fantastic. Not surprised he’s already playing senior.



Yup confident on the ball. And bags of tricks. Like what ive seen from him the past 3 games.

i still dont understand how Palacios is not playing . Why in the world do you spend 20 million and not use him?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Oh boy Kai!


----------



## YNWA14

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Yup confident on the ball. And bags of tricks. Like what ive seen from him the past 3 games.
> 
> i still dont understand how Palacios is not playing . Why in the world do you spend 20 million and not use him?




Dunno about Palacios but Wirtz is a very special talent. Some of the stuff I saw him do in youth games was unreal. Easily dribbling through 3-4 guys, his close control is really incredible. For me he may be a bigger talent than Moukoko though they’re very different as players. Supposedly Liverpool tried to sign him.


----------



## robertmac43

Amazing shot by Bittencourt there. Bremen looking much better than Schalke thus far in the game.


----------



## GeorgeLeafer12

Why does Schalke keep losing???


----------



## Bon Esprit

FCK Schalke, you mess up my Bremen to 2. Bndesliga masterplan.


----------



## YNWA14

Nice to see Dilrosun actually getting a look again, and he scored (pretty nice goal too, showed great composure). Not sure why he's fallen so out of favour at Hertha given his talent.


----------



## robertmac43

I really like the look of Rashica and in a fantasy world I think he would look great on Brighton. Unfortunately the money would not be there and I doubt he wants to come over, one can dream though.


----------



## Lambo

.I am very happy to see that Werder has a good perspective to save the league


----------



## SJSharks72

GeorgeLeafer12 said:


> Why does Schalke keep losing???



Because they have no attack. All of their forward players are just not good.


----------



## YNWA14

Nice goal from Bayern. All started from Davies breaking up a counter-attack leaving Dusseldorf out of position.

Also not that I've noticed before but Alaba isn't even playing on Davies' side.


----------



## PanniniClaus

YNWA14 said:


> Nice goal from Bayern. All started from Davies breaking up a counter-attack leaving Dusseldorf out of position.
> 
> Also not that I've noticed before but Alaba isn't even playing on Davies' side.



Yeah they brought Hernandez in to play CB and he's on Davies side. Davies has pushed the French starting LB to backup status. Never would have imagined that.


----------



## YNWA14

Really poor marking there on the corner.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

PanniniClaus said:


> Yeah they brought Hernandez in to play CB and he's on Davies side. Davies has pushed the French starting LB to backup status. Never would have imagined that.



Lucas was never that good anyway


----------



## YNWA14

Davies just stops a sure goal.


----------



## PansCyans

Game over. League over.


----------



## PanniniClaus

What a goal..amazing touch from Muller


----------



## YNWA14

That was a really nice goal.

Great touches all around on that one from Lewa, Muller and Kimmich.


----------



## PansCyans

These two teams are in the same league, but they’re not in the same league.


----------



## robertmac43

Lewa made that fourth goal look so easy, nice little improvised finish.


----------



## PansCyans

Alphonso goal!


----------



## robertmac43

Great job winning the ball back and getting the shot off. This kid is truly special!


----------



## John Price




----------



## Jersey Fresh

Duesseldorf is absolute trash.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Jersey Fresh said:


> Duesseldorf is absolute trash.



Fortuna is fighting relegation with one of the lowest payrolls in the league. They ain't trash. Schalke is trash.

Die Gehälter in der Bundesliga!


----------



## Cassano

Davies with a strong recovery to set up the first Bayern goal and then the low center of gravity to get his own goal. Does it at both ends.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> Fortuna is fighting relegation with one of the lowest payrolls in the league. They ain't trash. Schalke is trash.
> 
> Die Gehälter in der Bundesliga!




"absolute trash" is millennial speak for "disappointing" and "suboptimal".


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> "absolute trash" is millennial speak for "disappointing" and "suboptimal".



I'm a boomer, I don't understand the snowflake's language. My bad.

Btw. the numbers include the entire staff, not only player's salary. Bayern might have 200 more employees than Paderborn, but still.


----------



## ItsFineImFine

Bayern should really upgrade their bench a bit. Perisic and Cuisance were their best options today (excluding Boateng) and those guys are both Dortmund-level subs. I know they have injuries to guys like Tolisso but even then, should have a better bench with less second team players that are kids (there's a NZ int'l named Sarpreet Singh and a Brazlian kid named Oliver Batista Meier who hadn't even played before today). And Odriozola....are you kidding me.

Also Flick switched Coman to the left and Gnabry to the right in the second half and it made such a difference. I don't think Gnabry and Davies play well together but Davies and Coman do.



Bon Esprit said:


> I'm a boomer, I don't understand the snowflake's language. My bad.
> 
> Btw. the numbers include the entire staff, not only player's salary. Bayern might have 200 more employees than Paderborn, but still.




Yes, hyperbole was invented by millenials, not like it existed on the internet 20 years ago


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Bayern do have a few injuries...


----------



## Cassano

ItsFineImFine said:


> Bayern should really upgrade their bench a bit. Perisic and Cuisance were their best options today (excluding Boateng) and those guys are both Dortmund-level subs. I know they have injuries to guys like Tolisso but even then, should have a better bench with less second team players that are kids (there's a NZ int'l named Sarpreet Singh and a Brazlian kid named Oliver Batista Meier who hadn't even played before today). And Odriozola....are you kidding me.
> 
> Also Flick switched Coman to the left and Gnabry to the right in the second half and it made such a difference. I don't think Gnabry and Davies play well together but Davies and Coman do.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, hyperbole was invented by millenials, not like it existed on the internet 20 years ago



Bayern will probably sign Sane and have a bench of Nubel, Coman, Tolisso, T. Hernandez, Perisic, Zirkzee and Boateng/Sule, Dest/Dodô next season. I think on paper, only Man City's bench is better because they have more gamebreaking options.


----------



## SJSharks72

Cassano said:


> Bayern will probably sign Sane and have a bench of Nubel, Coman, Tolisso, T. Hernandez, Perisic, Zirkzee and Boateng/Sule, Dest/Dodô next season. I think on paper, only Man City's bench is better because they have more gamebreaking options.



They’d have Lucas Hernandez not Theo. But not knowing who Oliver Batista Meier is just shows the knowledge of that guy. Also saying Dortmund level when Bayern are only a small step above Dortmund.


----------



## ItsFineImFine

SJSharks39 said:


> They’d have Lucas Hernandez not Theo. But not knowing who Oliver Batista Meier is just shows the knowledge of that guy. Also saying Dortmund level when Bayern are only a small step above Dortmund.




Disagree, they're a foot ahead of Dortmund since January. Perisic and Cuisance aren't good enough to be Dortmund starters but they would be good enough to be on the Dortmund bench. They aren't guys that would have made the Bayern bench even a few seasons ago though when the depth was better.


----------



## Bakayoko Ono

The difference in quality between Bayern and the rest of the league is ridiculous; just like so many other European leagues, the Bundesliga, as a competition, is an obvious joke.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Cassano said:


> Davies with a strong recovery to set up the first Bayern goal and then the low center of gravity to get his own goal. Does it at both ends.



His topspeed yesterday was more than 35 km/h. Thomas Müller calls him roadrunner.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Thuram respect


----------



## John Price




----------



## Deficient Mode

Lazy, bad Dortmund defending on that counterattack while protecting a lead. Still, frustrating inconsistency from match to match with handball penalties.


----------



## robertmac43

Got to love seeing former Brighton man, Hunemeier scoring a goal.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Would be very nice if they didn't sell Sancho this summer.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Deficient Mode said:


> Would be very nice if they didn't sell Sancho this summer.



Agreed let barca lock up Lautaro this window and then reup the cash for Sancho next window. Please and thank you.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Schmelzer! Nice to see him score again.

And a Sancho hat trick. So easy.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Agreed let barca lock up Lautaro this window and then reup the cash for Sancho next window. Please and thank you.




Sounds like a plan! I don't care where to I'd just like a full season of Sancho and Haaland, preferably with a good coach. Neither will be with the club after summer 2021.


----------



## Bure80

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Agreed let barca lock up Lautaro this window and then reup the cash for Sancho next window. Please and thank you.




I heared Barca has financial problems.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Bure80 said:


> I heared Barca has financial problems.



Doesnt everyone?


----------



## Bure80

Some more, some less. I think he will go to an Oligarch club. They will pay more.


----------



## Cassano

Deficient Mode said:


> Sounds like a plan! I don't care where to I'd just like a full season of Sancho and Haaland, preferably with a good coach. Neither will be with the club after summer 2021.





Bure80 said:


> Some more, some less. I think he will go to an Oligarch club. They will pay more.



Newcastle 2021


----------



## Cassano

Bakayoko Ono said:


> The difference in quality between Bayern and the rest of the league is ridiculous; just like so many other European leagues, the Bundesliga, as a competition, is an obvious joke.



I wonder if the record of consecutive titles in a row by Skonto Riga (14) will be broken. 

Bayern will be at 8 barring a historic collapse this season. 
Juve are currently at 8 and are in a tight race with Lazio for 9th. 
Celtic are currently at 9 in a row and have integrated a lot of youth recently. 

I feel Bayern is the most likely team to break it with their ability to rebuild with young players.
Juventus to me seem like a broken, old ass team that somehow miraculously find ways to win titles while playing horribly. I can't see this lasting too much longer, unless they buy the opposition's best players like they did with Higuain. 
Rangers I think will give more of a challenge to Celtic in the coming years. Gerrard seems like a good manager and made some great signings.


----------



## Cassano

Absolutely unreal that season. Where does it rank among individual seasons by a Bundesliga player?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Cassano said:


> Absolutely unreal that season. Where does it rank among individual seasons by a Bundesliga player?




IDK but Kai is on the top with his season this year.


----------



## robertmac43

Love to see it, keep spreading support!


----------



## les Habs

Cassano said:


> Absolutely unreal that season. Where does it rank among individual seasons by a Bundesliga player?





I remember when I drafted De Bruyne while he was at Werder Bremen. I know I had Messi, Aguero and I think Neymar as well. Nobody paid him any mind and yet I put forward his stats which at that time were incredible and he was top 5 in the league in a couple of categories.


----------



## SJSharks72

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Agreed let barca lock up Lautaro this window and then reup the cash for Sancho next window. Please and thank you.



Honestly would love to see that. Also get Havertz while you’re at it! Just put a bunch of players that are fun to watch on the field and see what happens.


----------



## Bure80

Sancho already has 17 goals and 17 assists.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

robertmac43 said:


> Love to see it, keep spreading support!




Yup more people should do this and for other tragedies as well. Too bad its considered taboo


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> Honestly would love to see that. Also get Havertz while you’re at it! Just put a bunch of players that are fun to watch on the field and see what happens.



Sancho-Lautaro-Kai
----------Messi
--------Palacios(17)-Ascacibar
Almada-Lisandro-Perez-Zarcho
----------Ascacibar

Could work.


----------



## SJSharks72

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Sancho-Lautaro-Kai
> ----------Messi
> --------Palacios(17)-Ascacibar
> Almada-Lisandro-Perez-Zarcho
> ----------Ascacibar
> 
> Could work.



Zaracho at RB seems scary. Also it’s not fair to have Messi and Ascacibar squares in the same team. Didn’t see Almada at LB initially and man that would be scary for Barca  at least throw in Montiel or Tagliafico!


----------



## les Habs

SJSharks39 said:


> Zaracho at RB seems scary. Also it’s not fair to have Messi and Ascacibar squares in the same team. Didn’t see Almada at LB initially and man that would be scary for Barca  at least throw in Montiel or Tagliafico!




Please don't encourage him.


----------



## Cassano

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> IDK but Kai is on the top with his season this year.



Hmm not sure KdB had 10g 20a and helped give Wolfsburg a challenge for the title . Havertz has 11g 5a and Sancho has 17g 17a, Lewy had a season of 30g +5a.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> Zaracho at RB seems scary. Also it’s not fair to have Messi and Ascacibar squares in the same team. Didn’t see Almada at LB initially and man that would be scary for Barca  at least throw in Montiel or Tagliafico!



No deal and yeah, you're right I think the camp nou would split in half if those two shared a field.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Cassano said:


> Hmm not sure KdB had 10g 20a and helped give Wolfsburg a challenge for the title . Havertz has 11g 5a and Sancho has 17g 17a, Lewy had a season of 30g +5a.



I was clearly being facetious


----------



## Cassano

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> I was clearly being facetious



Sorry, it's hard to tell sometimes on this board.


----------



## ecemleafs

Cassano said:


> I wonder if the record of consecutive titles in a row by Skonto Riga (14) will be broken.
> 
> Bayern will be at 8 barring a historic collapse this season.
> Juve are currently at 8 and are in a tight race with Lazio for 9th.
> Celtic are currently at 9 in a row and have integrated a lot of youth recently.
> 
> I feel Bayern is the most likely team to break it with their ability to rebuild with young players.
> Juventus to me seem like a broken, old ass team that somehow miraculously find ways to win titles while playing horribly. I can't see this lasting too much longer, unless they buy the opposition's best players like they did with Higuain.
> Rangers I think will give more of a challenge to Celtic in the coming years. Gerrard seems like a good manager and made some great signings.



gerrard has made terrible signings. outside of barisic most of his signings have been expensive busts. theyve spunked a lot of money on kent and hagi. kent was signed because he punched scott brown in a match last year. he was useless this year. rangers record was terrible after they started accommodating hagi into their team. gerrard did have his team punching above their weight in europe though.


----------



## Cassano

ecemleafs said:


> gerrard has made terrible signings. outside of barisic most of his signings have been expensive busts. theyve spunked a lot of money on kent and hagi. kent was signed because he punched scott brown in a match last year. he was useless this year. rangers record was terrible after they started accommodating hagi into their team. gerrard did have his team punching above their weight in europe though.



I'll take your word for it. I mainly saw them do well in Europe and was quite impressed. Big fan of Morelos.


----------



## ecemleafs

Cassano said:


> I'll take your word for it. I mainly saw them do well in Europe and was quite impressed. Big fan of Morelos.



Morelos wasnt his signing. Morelos had a great Europa League campaign but went off the rails domestically. Shitty attitude, overweight. Hes physically strong and is good at rolling off defenders but hes not a clinical finisher. He basically just hits it hard at goal. Hes never scored against Celtic and has had quite a few terrible misses. Think he had 1 goal in 2020 before the Coronavirus stoppage.


----------



## YNWA14

13-14 Firmino >>

Although 14-15 Arjen Robben if he'd been able to stay healthy was on another level.


----------



## YNWA14

Actually looking back on it Arjen Robben would have been such a ridiculous player if he hadn't been injured all the time.

From 2013-15 though really on another level.


----------



## Cassano

YNWA14 said:


> 13-14 Firmino >>
> 
> Although 14-15 Arjen Robben if he'd been able to stay healthy was on another level.



Mkhitaryan before Man Utd/Mou ruined his career deserves a shout as well.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Bure80 said:


> Sancho already has 17 goals and 17 assists.



Sancho is the youngest player to score 30 goals in Bundesliga history.
https://www.kicker.de/776594/slideshow


----------



## Bon Esprit

YNWA14 said:


> Actually looking back on it Arjen Robben would have been such a ridiculous player if he hadn't been injured all the time.
> 
> From 2013-15 though really on another level.




The most impressing was watching Robben running down the right side, cutting to the left and shoot. Everybody knew it would happen. but nobody could defend it. Not saying he was a one trick-pony.


----------



## robertmac43

Cordoba is having himself a year. Fourth in goals behind Lewa, Werner, and Sancho is not nothing.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Actually political statements aren't allowed in German football. A lot of them (rightfully) happened over the weekend reguarding the incidents in the USA. I really hope the DFL is smart enough to ignore it and not to start investigations.
Anti racism is not a political statement.


----------



## Maverick41

Bon Esprit said:


> Actually political statements aren't allowed in German football. A lot of them (rightfully) happened over the weekend reguarding the incidents in the USA. I really hope the DFL is smart enough to ignore it and not to start investigations.
> Anti racism is not a political statement.




They are investigating (The DFB not the DFL). It's standard procedure as soon as any messages are displayed during the game.
Let's wait and see what they decide in the end.
I hope they let it go, but I think they might be too worried about setting a precedent, that could become a problem later on.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Maverick41 said:


> They are investigating (The DFB not the DFL). It's standard procedure as soon as any messages are displayed during the game.
> Let's wait and see what they decide in the end.
> I hope they let it go, but I think they might be too worried about setting a precedent, that could become a problem later on.



Then the Uefa might have something to say...


----------



## John Price




----------



## robertmac43

Thank goodness, would have been extremely disappointing had they punished them.


----------



## Bon Esprit

As expected. They can't do this
"Tag gegen Rassismus": Was der DFB gegen Rassismus unternimmt

and then start investigations. Good.


----------



## Albatros

Good outcome, but the league still only does what is in its own narrow self-interest which makes such moral posturing quite twisted.


----------



## Cassano

Albatros said:


> Good outcome, but the league still only does what is in its own narrow self-interest which makes such moral posturing quite twisted.


----------



## Bures Elbow

So happy Raphael Gurreiro has been able to stay healthy this entire season, what a fullback.

I've been watching the Bundasliga on/off since it restarted and I firmly believe its the third best league in Europe, Italy has been hurt massively by the diminishing stature of AC Milan, Inter etc. Those teams need to recapture their significance in terms of quality again.


----------



## Albatros

It always depends on how quality is measured, many consider the Premier League the best in Europe but I wouldn't like to see the leagues in Germany or Italy to become one bit more like it. Despite chronic mismanagement Serie A has probably given more to German football than any other foreign league.


----------



## Evilo

Bures Elbow said:


> So happy Raphael Gurreiro has been able to stay healthy this entire season, what a fullback.



Yet someone here said he wasn't good anough to be a fullback....


----------



## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


> Yet someone here said he wasn't good anough to be a fullback....



I don’t think he’s really played fullback though to be fair. He’s been more of at best a wing back.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Yet someone here said he wasn't good anough to be a fullback....






SJSharks39 said:


> I don’t think he’s really played fullback though to be fair. He’s been more of at best a wing back.




He is on the Victor Moses 16/17 Chelsea Plan


----------



## PansCyans

Guerreiro is better and definitely easier to trust playing that flank in a 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 than he is in a 4-4-2


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

If you are going to say you think he’s playing left back, you can admit you aren’t watching him play.


----------



## Evilo




----------



## YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> If you are going to say you think he’s playing left back, you can admit you aren’t watching him play.



You're talking to the wrong guy if you ever expect an admission remotely close to being wrong.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Sancho and Akanji have been fined by the league for breaking social distancing rules when getting their hair cut.


----------



## Evilo

YNWA14 said:


> You're talking to the wrong guy if you ever expect an admission remotely close to being wrong.



So f***ing ironic.
You, the poster who used the wrong stat in the Sancho/Mbappe discussion, responding to the guy who said Guerreiro needed to leave because he wasn't good enough to play, at any BVB position in fact and when Guerreiro gets praised here, says "well he's not a LB".

And finally, both of you together, thinking a LWB or a LB are completely different positions.

I mean, that's like a Trump tweet there.


----------



## YNWA14

I don’t think you understand what irony is. I also never used the wrong stats. Though again, this is a pointless conversation.

And as always you pushing things that were never said or implied.


----------



## SJSharks72

Evilo said:


> So f***ing ironic.
> You, the poster who used the wrong stat in the Sancho/Mbappe discussion, responding to the guy who said Guerreiro needed to leave because he wasn't good enough to play, at any BVB position in fact and when Guerreiro gets praised here, says "well he's not a LB".
> 
> And finally, both of you together, thinking a LWB or a LB are completely different positions.
> 
> I mean, that's like a Trump tweet there.



I don’t think LWB and LB are completely different positions but they are definitely different. A WB is able to push further forward and has less defensive responsibilities. I think it fits Guerreiro perfectly but I think he’d get exposed a bit more at LB.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> So f***ing ironic.
> You, the poster who used the wrong stat in the Sancho/Mbappe discussion, responding to the guy who said Guerreiro needed to leave because he wasn't good enough to play, at any BVB position in fact and when Guerreiro gets praised here, says "well he's not a LB".
> 
> And finally, both of you together, thinking a LWB or a LB are completely different positions.
> 
> I mean, that's like a Trump tweet there.




Can you post a link to where I said that?


----------



## Evilo

Do your own work.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Damn woke so early but no kai... this sucks


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Insanity no Palacios again wtf is the point in these german teams buying players they have no interest in using. 

Terrible play by Tapsoba lead to Lewa goal


----------



## ecemleafs

Timo is so fast. Not wearing his finishing boots, but even down a man hes terrifying paderborns defense.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Diaby's teammates must be so frustrated at this point. How many times will he opt for low percentage shots that go horribly wrong?


----------



## Evilo

Jersey Fresh said:


> Diaby's teammates must be so frustrated at this point. How many times will he opt for low percentage shots that go horribly wrong?



And yet someone here said he had a better season than Havertz....
Riiiiiight.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> And yet someone here said he had a better season than Havertz....
> Riiiiiight.




Go find for me where I said what you claimed. You made something up from nowhere that I didn't say, and then can't even post it when asked to do so. Your response was pathetic.

Why should I take anything you say seriously until you do that?

And besides, you started this conflict by passive-aggressively mentioning me. Don't blame me that Guerreiro is playing LWB, not LB. Should I not correct the record about that?


----------



## les Habs

Saw a grainy highlight on YouTube, but looks like a nice goal from Wirtz. Against Bayern too.


----------



## SJSharks72

They’re showing highlights of an old Bayern/Leipzig game and Forsberg is just dominating. What happened to him?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

SJSharks39 said:


> They’re showing highlights of an old Bayern/Leipzig game and *Forsberg* is just dominating. What happened to him?



Injuries but glad he managed to switch professions.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Go find for me where I said what you claimed. You made something up from nowhere that I didn't say, and then can't even post it when asked to do so. Your response was pathetic.
> 
> Why should I take anything you say seriously until you do that?
> 
> And besides, you started this conflict by passive-aggressively mentioning me. Don't blame me that Guerreiro is playing LWB, not LB. Should I not correct the record about that?



Real quote was :
"but over the course of a full season, I don't know that he's been much better than Diaby either"

So yeah, claim is just as ridiculous, even past my exageration.
Once again, your deadly eye for talent showed today (yet I'm called the french homer BTW, and even I would never say Diaby is in Havertz' league).
As for Guerreiro, HFboards search feature doesn't hit any of our discussion from months (or years?) back so I can't help your tired fingers here.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Not Brandt's best or cleanest match but his combination play is so good. Seemed like a match where Dortmund would generate nice attacks but lack the finish before that Can goal.


----------



## Deficient Mode

I will never understand the incidental handball penalty enforcement. Seems extremely arbitrary all the time.


----------



## PansCyans

Nice passing sequence between Sancho and Guerreiro. Should’ve scored.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

koyvoo said:


> Nice passing sequence between Sancho and *Guerreiro*. Should’ve scored.




Hes a great RB i hear.

yeah im bored lol


----------



## Deficient Mode

koyvoo said:


> Nice passing sequence between Sancho and Guerreiro. Should’ve scored.




Sancho in a nutshell. Incredibly creative, audacious combination and dribbling but the finishing is inconsistent and indecisive. Can't complain because it's a joy to watch and the results are still generally great.



Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Hes a great RB i hear.
> 
> yeah im bored lol




LB smh. Really nice match from him too.


----------



## Evilo

Not good enough defensively, not good enough offensively... you know... not good enough period.


----------



## Cassano

Flick has unlocked Goretzka’s potential. Imagine what he will do with Havertz next season.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> As for Guerreiro, HFboards search feature doesn't hit any of our discussion from months (or years?) back so I can't help your tired fingers here.




Just so we’re clear, this is what you claimed and never found any proof for. 



Evilo said:


> responding to the guy who said Guerreiro needed to leave because he wasn't good enough to play, at any BVB position in fact and when Guerreiro gets praised here, says "well he's not a LB".




Of course, you can’t find proof for it because I didn’t say it.

I don’t care what you think of my opinion of the players on Leverkusen. Besides, you also left out all of the context of my quote about Havertz. It was about his end product, but why add context when you can once again claim something that wasn’t said?

I’ll leave that there. We don’t need to discuss this any further, but just so everyone is clear, your blatant mistruths or dishonest representations need to be exposed, especially considering you started this by mentioning these things. I didn’t say anything about your opinion.


----------



## Evilo

Oh you did. But HFBoards doesn't keep those posts, that's all.
The Havertz/Diaby post is there for everyone to see. No context needed.


----------



## ItsFineImFine

These fake added crowd noises on the Fox streams are bullshit, just gimme silence.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Hge wins for Mainz and Dortmnd yesterday. Union should start winning again, cos Fortna is getting closer. Werder needs a win vs. WOB. easier said than done.


----------



## John Price




----------



## Bon Esprit

Roman Fell said:


>




The ref might be Bibiana. Cool girl. Werder is playing without their two best players.


----------



## Cassano

have to disagree with Leno. Bundesliga is pretty exciting when you’re watching Bayern Dortmund or Leipzig

agree with the title race part. Don’t see that changing in foreseeable future.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Cassano said:


> have to disagree with Leno. Bundesliga is pretty exciting when you’re watching Bayern Dortmund or Leipzig




Clearly he's never heard of Kai... I mean if the only entertainment you get is the race for the title than yeah, sure its "boring" but there are other reasons to watch footy. By his same logic his team is boring and sad.


----------



## Cassano

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Clearly he's never heard of Kai... I mean if the only entertainment you get is the race for the title than yeah, sure its "boring" but there are other reasons to watch footy. By his same logic his team is boring and sad.



Kai will be off to Bayern so same thing really


----------



## les Habs

Cassano said:


> have to disagree with Leno. Bundesliga is pretty exciting when you’re watching Bayern Dortmund or Leipzig
> 
> agree with the title race part. Don’t see that changing in foreseeable future.





I don't think the break did the league any favors which is unfortunate.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Cassano said:


> have to disagree with Leno. Bundesliga is pretty exciting when you’re watching Bayern Dortmund or Leipzig
> 
> agree with the title race part. Don’t see that changing in foreseeable future.





Meh, title race was pretty close last year. It just had the predictable ending. And Dortmund have upgraded their roster with Haaland, Brandt, and Hazard in place of Pulisic and Alcacer since then. If Sancho stays I'd imagine another close race next year if Bayern start slowly like they have the past couple seasons. They basically averaged 89 points per Bundesliga season starting with their treble season and through the Guardiola years (ignore 14-15 when they collapsed and lost 3 straight matches after securing the title). Past 4 seasons they will be at an 81.5 point average assuming they win out the rest of their games this year. That's a pace that Dortmund have come very close to in their best domestic campaigns, and I think they're more talented than ever, probably even if Sancho leaves.

It's not really about beating Bayern head to head nearly as much as it is about being more consistent at beating the worse teams, and the gap in talent and depth between Dortmund and the teams below them has continued to grow wider the past few years as the revenue gap has also grown wider. 

I don't know; I'm not as pessimistic that Bayern will win the title every year until their squad really does look as talented as 2012-16 again.


----------



## Cassano

Deficient Mode said:


> Meh, title race was pretty close last year. It just had the predictable ending. And Dortmund have upgraded their roster with Haaland, Brandt, and Hazard in place of Pulisic and Alcacer since then. If Sancho stays I'd imagine another close race next year if Bayern start slowly like they have the past couple seasons. They basically averaged 89 points per Bundesliga season starting with their treble season and through the Guardiola years (ignore 14-15 when they collapsed and lost 3 straight matches after securing the title). Past 4 seasons they will be at an 81.5 point average assuming they win out the rest of their games this year. That's a pace that Dortmund have come very close to in their best domestic campaigns, and I think they're more talented than ever, probably even if Sancho leaves.
> 
> It's not really about beating Bayern head to head nearly as much as it is about being more consistent at beating the worse teams, and the gap in talent and depth between Dortmund and the teams below them has continued to grow wider the past few years as the revenue gap has also grown wider.
> 
> I don't know; I'm not as pessimistic that Bayern will win the title every year until their squad really does look as talented as 2012-16 again.



Dortmund never got more than 81 points in their history.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Cassano said:


> Dortmund never got more than 81 points in their history.




Yep. And they have a better deeper team than they did in 2012 or 2016 too. Never said they will start alternating titles with Bayern or the title race will be neck-and-neck every year . They could have one hot year and win a title though. The level Bayern are at right now is just barely above where Dortmund were in their best seasons. Bayern won the title by 2 points last year. They clearly aren't in the same untouchable stratosphere they were those 4 years.


----------



## Cassano

Deficient Mode said:


> Yep. And they have a better deeper team than they did in 2012 or 2016 too. Never said they will start alternating titles with Bayern or the title race will be neck-and-neck every year . They could have one hot year and win a title though. The level Bayern are at right now is just barely above where Dortmund were in their best seasons. Bayern won the title by 2 points last year. They clearly aren't in the same untouchable stratosphere they were those 4 years.



I think this is wishful thinking. 

Last season was a fluke with bad luck/coaching for Bayern. They were clearly the best team if you look at xPts table.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Cassano said:


> I think this is wishful thinking.
> 
> Last season was a fluke with bad luck/coaching for Bayern. They were clearly the best team if you look at xPts table.




Do you think City is better than Liverpool this year too? Do you think last year's Bayern team was the best Bayern team of the past 6 years by a significant margin, or did they have to keep pouring on the gas longer and take more chances in matches because they weren't converting their chances early and often like they're used to? Goal conversion stats vary tremendously even over an entire season. And the gap to Dortmund had as much to do with Favres' teams almost always severely overperforming xg as with Bayern's cold finishing. 

This was the third time in four seasons that Bayern had coaching drama in the fall or a slow start (they fired Ancelotti very quickly before it got too bad in 17-18). And they lost 2 of their first 4 matches under Flick too. I think it's just as wishful thinking that a new coach will definitely cure their fall fever for good that capped this season at 82 points despite dropping only 2 points in their last 16 matches. If they continue to be complacent in the fall, they will continue to be vulnerable to Dortmund putting together a good full season.


----------



## Cassano

Deficient Mode said:


> Do you think City is better than Liverpool this year too? Do you think last year's Bayern team was the best Bayern team of the past 6 years by a significant margin, or did they have to keep pouring on the gas longer and take more chances in matches because they weren't converting their chances early and often like they're used to? Goal conversion stats vary tremendously even over an entire season. And the gap to Dortmund had as much to do with Favres' teams almost always severely overperforming xg as with Bayern's cold finishing.
> 
> This was the third time in four seasons that Bayern had coaching drama in the fall or a slow start (they fired Ancelotti very quickly before it got too bad in 17-18). And they lost 2 of their first 4 matches under Flick too. I think it's just as wishful thinking that a new coach will definitely cure their fall fever for good that capped this season at 82 points despite dropping only 2 points in their last 16 matches. If they continue to be complacent in the fall, they will continue to be vulnerable to Dortmund putting together a good full season.



I think in terms of coaching, Bayern seem pretty set with Flick. Playing exceptional style with the results to back it up. Ancelotti was washed up and Kovac was in over his head.

I would be more concerned with Dortmund's manager atm than Bayern's.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Cassano said:


> I think in terms of coaching, Bayern seem pretty set with Flick. Playing exceptional style with the results to back it up. Ancelotti was washed up and Kovac was in over his head.
> 
> I would be more concerned with Dortmund's manager atm than Bayern's.




The quality of the manager wasn't the question I raised. It's that they've been prone to dig themselves a hole early in the season across multiple managers, and then go on an incredible run after they change coaches (or not, as the case of 18-19 - which is all the more compelling evidence that it's down to the players rallying rather than the quality of the manager) only to do it again. They played great under Ancelotti his first season too. I think it's pretty naive to think that a first time head manager won't have a cold stretch at some point, or the players won't grow complacent again. Of course they're playing great under Flick. They played great under Heynckes in 17-18 and great after the first 12 matchdays under Kovac in 18-19 (outscoring opponents 65-15 in 22 matches).

Maybe they won't have a slow start next year but it's naive to assume they definitely won't because their first time in a top league head manager is way better at motivation/staying consistent/whatever you like than Carlo Ancelotti. I've said plenty of negative things about Favre, but that's another subject.


----------



## alko

How is it possible that Bayern is in Bundesliga so long so dominant? What they do, that the others teams dont? What must be done, to dethrone Bayern?

It is only about money?


----------



## Albatros

alko said:


> How is it possible that Bayern is in Bundesliga so long so dominant? What they do, that the others teams dont? What must be done, to dethrone Bayern?
> 
> It is only about money?




FC Bayern is a Bavarian institution that benefits of the structures it is a part of. Money is just the logical consequence. There's no other club that could achieve the same, for example Dortmund and Schalke might have a stronger base in terms of football, but they also come from a structurally weak region and there's little they can do about that.


----------



## alko

Albatros said:


> FC Bayern is a Bavarian institution that benefits of the structures it is a part of. Money is just the logical consequence. There's no other club that could achieve the same, for example Dortmund and Schalke might have a stronger base in terms of football, but they also come from a structurally weak region and there's little they can do about that.




I dont understand.


----------



## Albatros

alko said:


> I dont understand.




https://fcbayern.com/en/club/company/supervisory-board


----------



## SJSharks72

alko said:


> How is it possible that Bayern is in Bundesliga so long so dominant? What they do, that the others teams dont? What must be done, to dethrone Bayern?
> 
> It is only about money?



They buy their rivals best players.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

I wouldn't say that the structural advantage of being in Bavaria is such a huge factor. Sure, maybe in relation to Werder Bremen or Kaiserslautern..clubs from smaller cities without a lot of economic strength...but Dortmund is sitting in the most populous state of the country where a ton of corporations are headquartered and a lot of money goes around.

The difference is that Bayern is the undisputed number one in much of Bavaria, while Dortmund has to contend with Schalke and others in the Ruhr and of course once you get to Düsseldorf and Köln they are no longer seen as local in a meaningful way. The polycentric nature of NRW which has also led to a great density of popular football clubs hurts them more than anything in that regard.

But then there's also the difference in how the clubs have been run. Bayern have been run well for over 50 years. Dortmund were a mediocre club through the 70s and 80s before re-emerging as a relevant force around 1990. Club management had run the club into the ground in the late 60s/early 70s, financially and otherwise. Bayern made good choices until there was a critical mass of support and money to cover for bad choices.


----------



## Deficient Mode

SJSharks39 said:


> They buy their rivals best players.




Wouldn't even say that anymore. Only a few of their players came from the next tier of German clubs by wealth/multi-year table finishes. Of their 18 top players by minutes played, just Neuer (2011), Lewandowski (2014), and Goretzka (2018) came from other top 6 clubs (though Schalke's top 6 status is fading). They bought lots of players abroad and from less competitive Bundesliga clubs. They acquired more of those 18 players from Liga (4) than from top Bundesliga clubs.

The bigger advantage is that they can hold onto their best players for more than 3 years and Dortmund/Leipzig can't. Continuity is extremely important.


----------



## SJSharks72

Deficient Mode said:


> Wouldn't even say that anymore. Only a few of their players came from the next tier of German clubs by wealth/multi-year table finishes. Of their 18 top players by minutes played, just Neuer (2011), Lewandowski (2014), and Goretzka (2018) came from other top 6 clubs (though Schalke's top 6 status is fading). They bought lots of players abroad and from less competitive Bundesliga clubs. They acquired more of those 18 players from Liga (4) than from top Bundesliga clubs.
> 
> The bigger advantage is that they can hold onto their best players for more than 3 years and Dortmund/Leipzig can't. Continuity is extremely important.



I agree that it’s definitely not anymore. The other thing that can be taken into account is Bayern buying those players all those years kept the other teams from getting too big while Bayern just kept building. I think that there’s been a lack of real top end talent in the BL from teams other than Bayern/Dortmund. This has been changing in the last few years though.


----------



## NYRFANMANI

1. FC Saarbrücken, my f***ing hometown club against Leverkusen tomorrow! Let's gooo!


----------



## Cassano

Deficient Mode said:


> The quality of the manager wasn't the question I raised. It's that they've been prone to dig themselves a hole early in the season across multiple managers, and then go on an incredible run after they change coaches (or not, as the case of 18-19 - which is all the more compelling evidence that it's down to the players rallying rather than the quality of the manager) only to do it again. They played great under Ancelotti his first season too. I think it's pretty naive to think that a first time head manager won't have a cold stretch at some point, or the players won't grow complacent again. Of course they're playing great under Flick. They played great under Heynckes in 17-18 and great after the first 12 matchdays under Kovac in 18-19 (outscoring opponents 65-15 in 22 matches).
> 
> Maybe they won't have a slow start next year but it's naive to assume they definitely won't because their first time in a top league head manager is way better at motivation/staying consistent/whatever you like than Carlo Ancelotti. I've said plenty of negative things about Favre, but that's another subject.



Flick seems way better tactically than Ancelotti or Kovac from what I've seen. 

I think it is also equally naive to think they'll start the season slowly when they're integrating younger players to the team every season...


----------



## Cassano

Deficient Mode said:


> Wouldn't even say that anymore. Only a few of their players came from the next tier of German clubs by wealth/multi-year table finishes. Of their 18 top players by minutes played, just Neuer (2011), Lewandowski (2014), and Goretzka (2018) came from other top 6 clubs (though Schalke's top 6 status is fading). They bought lots of players abroad and from less competitive Bundesliga clubs. They acquired more of those 18 players from Liga (4) than from top Bundesliga clubs.
> 
> The bigger advantage is that they can hold onto their best players for more than 3 years and Dortmund/Leipzig can't. Continuity is extremely important.



This. If anything in recent years, Dortmund have also been buying the top Bundesliga talents. 

Right now there is no 'Buyern' excuse when the team below them has been pillaging Bundesliga talents of teams below them.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Hoffenheim sack Schreuder after less than one year, because they have different opinions on the future of the team.


----------



## Bon Esprit

alko said:


> How is it possible that Bayern is in Bundesliga so long so dominant? What they do, that the others teams dont? What must be done, to dethrone Bayern?
> 
> It is only about money?



Bayern is one of the big boys in Europe. Young, very good players go there and want to stay for good. Young players go to Schalke, WOB or BvB, because it's the next step and leave afterwards (Neuer, Sane, Dembele or KdB, Draxler).


----------



## Albatros

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> I wouldn't say that the structural advantage of being in Bavaria is such a huge factor. Sure, maybe in relation to Werder Bremen or Kaiserslautern..clubs from smaller cities without a lot of economic strength...but Dortmund is sitting in the most populous state of the country where a ton of corporations are headquartered and a lot of money goes around.




NRW and Bavaria may have a similar GDP in absolute terms, but Munich is wealthier than any other city in Germany and as you recognize there's not a whole lot of competition in Bavaria. It's so even if you remove football from the equation altogether, Munich is the unchallenged metropolis where resources flow to, Dortmund is one regional center 11 minutes by commuter train from the next. One can always ask whether other big city clubs could have made more of what is available to them without the mismanagement prevalent in many places, but either way none have quite the same mix of fortunate circumstances.


----------



## kalle wirsch

NYRFANMANI said:


> 1. FC Saarbrücken, my f***ing hometown club against Leverkusen tomorrow! Let's gooo!



You are not the only one on this board
Heja FCS


----------



## NYRFANMANI

kalle wirsch said:


> You are not the only one on this board
> Heja FCS




Ei jooo, wie geil ist das denn!!!  Small Saarland is everywhere  

Very good to know! (What's your fav. NHL club?)


----------



## Lambo

NYRFANMANI said:


> Ei jooo, wie geil ist das denn!!!  Small Saarland is everywhere
> 
> Very good to know! (What's your fav. NHL club?)



Yes the little Saarland had some history! 1. FC Saarbrücken, FC Homburg and Bor. Neunkirchen(Former Bundesliga-Clubs).


----------



## robertmac43

Moussa Diaby had an amazing finish on the first Leverkusen goal today!


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Something fishy is definitely happening behind the scenes with Palacios. 2nd half start in a meaningless game thats already done and no sign of him. He definitely did something to piss off the team.


----------



## ItsFineImFine

Over/under that Bayern beat Bayer by more goals than Bayer beat Saarbrücken (which was 3)?


----------



## Cassano

ItsFineImFine said:


> Over/under that Bayern beat Bayer by more goals than Bayer beat Saarbrücken (which was 3)?



I'll take the over.


----------



## Cassano

Lol another assist by Muller.


----------



## robertmac43

Davies is playing up the pitch right now and is looking amazing! He truly is explosive and is great at taking people on 1 v 1.


----------



## Hadoop

Enjoying all the BuLi matches on SportsNet so far. Also here's hoping more sports fans in Canada are tuning in given there is currently no competition from hockey, basketball, baseball, etc.


----------



## Hadoop

Cassano said:


> Lol another assist by Muller.




He's having a great season, and his style of play is perfect for these unprecedented times Ghost player for the ghost game: Thomas Müller is perfect for the pandemic | Jonathan Liew


----------



## Bon Esprit

Müller-Wohlfarhrt ends his work at Bayern after this season.
FC Bayern: Mannschaftsarzt Dr. Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt hört auf

If you look like him at age 77 you have done one or two thrings right in your life.


----------



## PanniniClaus

Hoffenheim were pretty unlucky not to have an early penalty and then fell victim to some less than stellar defending and goalkeeping in the first 10 minutes. I thought Baumann could have had at least one of, if not both goals ,with better footwork - saves with his feet. 

Baumann did make some saves later ...he's good at making himself big...he forced Werner to scuff a breakaway. 

Olmo with a brace .


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> Müller-Wohlfarhrt ends his work at Bayern after this season.
> FC Bayern: Mannschaftsarzt Dr. Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt hört auf
> 
> If you look like him at age 77 you have done one or two thrings right in your life.




He's the Vin Scully of team doctors. He became Bayern doctor years before I was born...crazy.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

PanniniClaus said:


> Hoffenheim were pretty unlucky not to have an early penalty and then fell victim to some less than stellar defending and goalkeeping in the first 10 minutes. I thought Baumann could have had at least one of, if not both goals ,with better footwork - saves with his feet.
> 
> Baumann did make some saves later ...he's good at making himself big...he forced Werner to scuff a breakaway.
> 
> Olmo with a brace .



Hopefully next campaign Dabbur has more time to acclimate in Hoffenheim. This is a weird season to have made a move in January. Can't say I've watched a lot of Hoffenheim, but his goal return is pretty bad.

That Werner breakaway was just a bad finish. He had the whole goal and tried to get too precise.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Hilarious disallowed goal on Guerriero.


----------



## SJSharks72

Jersey Fresh said:


> Hilarious disallowed goal on Guerriero.



Not really. I mean it did touch the arm which according to the new rule means that it’s disallowed.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Feels like every time the incidental handball ruling goes against Dortmund. This rule is so arbitrarily enforced.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

SJSharks39 said:


> Not really. I mean it did touch the arm which according to the new rule means that it’s disallowed.



That was his shoulder with the arm pressed against his body from a ball deflected a foot in front of him. Ridiculous to disallow that. If it was actually his hand or another part of his arm it would still be dumb, but it would at least be more in line with the intent of the rule.

The application of this rule has swung to point of hysterics. It's that way in England too.


----------



## SJSharks72

Jersey Fresh said:


> That was his shoulder with the arm pressed against his body from a ball deflected a foot in front of him. Ridiculous to disallow that. If it was actually his hand or another part of his arm it would still be dumb, but it would at least be more in line with the intent of the rule.
> 
> The application of this rule has swung to point of hysterics. It's that way in England too.



I’m not saying I agree or disagree with you but according to the rule it’s a handball.


----------



## PanniniClaus

Football needs goals. Rules once again need to be reviewed and changed.


----------



## PanniniClaus

Great ball from Akanji with his right foot.


----------



## Deficient Mode

These should have either all been free kicks/penalties or all not been.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Nice moment of brilliance from Haaland but this match still again shows the limits of Favreball for a team trying to win a title. Lack of intensity and coordination in pressing to overwhelm and create chances against a less technical opponent that is defending very well when set. I feel like there have been a handful of games this season where Dortmund's lack of pressing and intensity really cost them.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Very harsh on Dusseldorf, Guerreiro's chalked off goal notwithstanding. Good chances barely missed.


----------



## PanniniClaus

Bayern have an interesting lineup today with Lewandowski and Muller suspended. Davies is on the bench..They have a front 4 of Zirkzee, Perisic, Cuisance and Gnabry.


----------



## PansCyans

Lol. Amateur hour with the Gladbach defence


----------



## PansCyans

koyvoo said:


> Lol. Amateur hour with the Gladbach defence



...and the Bayern defence...

Shoutout to the Pavard haters.


----------



## Evilo

Pavard sucks. Ain't nothing new.
Sommer isn't the quality goalie he is said to be by some here, but again, that's nothing new.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> Pavard sucks. Ain't nothing new.
> Sommer isn't the quality goalie he is said to be by some here, but again, that's nothing new.




Pretty sure Sommer is statistically the best goalie in the Bundesliga the past couple seasons in terms of expected goals against minus actual goals against. He's definitely quite good as a shot stopper, his mistake there aside.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Wendt needed to defend that better. Misjudged the angle of his run but should have had the ball over Pavard and not allowed the cross in. Too bad.


----------



## ItsFineImFine

Bayern really have no proper backup striker after Lewandowski who's in his 30s. I find that really bizarre for a top team. Zirkzee doesn't look very good to me and has no experiencen either way. They should be thankful Goretzka can score those types of goals cos none of the strikers they had were gonna score today minus that fluke gift goal Zirkzee got.

They had Wagner a couple years ago and really seem to have gotten complacent and not bothered to replace him properly since Lewandowski is pretty durable for a striker playing so many games.

edit: Cuisance sucks.


----------



## YNWA14

Evilo said:


> Pavard sucks. Ain't nothing new.
> Sommer isn't the quality goalie he is said to be by some here, but again, that's nothing new.


----------



## ecemleafs

Deficient Mode said:


> Nice moment of brilliance from Haaland but this match still again shows the limits of Favreball for a team trying to win a title. Lack of intensity and coordination in pressing to overwhelm and create chances against a less technical opponent that is defending very well when set. I feel like there have been a handful of games this season where Dortmund's lack of pressing and intensity really cost them.



that will all change next season when jesse marsch is the manager.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Evilo said:


> Pavard sucks. Ain't nothing new.
> Sommer isn't the quality goalie he is said to be by some here, but again, that's nothing new.




Because Sommer's brainfart and his world-class save minutes later? Yann Sommer is one of the best goalies in the league. Since years.


----------



## Evilo

His numerous mistakes are not one of top goalies. I said it many times.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Classless Schalke acting classless again.
Bundesliga - Betriebsrat empört: FC Schalke 04 feuert langjährige Nachwuchs-Fahrer

Laying off 24 employees from their driving service, pensioners and disabled who work for 10 euros amongst them. fck this club.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Diaby is incredibly selfish. ...bayer shouldve scored


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Alario lol almost started a brawl


----------



## HajdukSplit

Big win for Augsburg but boy that was ugly game. Ironically the three relegation candidates (Paderborn to me is already down) play the top three. The big match will be next weekend Mainz-Bremen, on paper Fortuna have the easiest fixtures playing two teams with nothing to play for in the final two match days


----------



## Bon Esprit

HajdukSplit said:


> Big win for Augsburg but boy that was ugly game. Ironically the three relegation candidates (Paderborn to me is already down) play the top three. The big match will be next weekend Mainz-Bremen, on paper Fortuna have the easiest fixtures playing two teams with nothing to play for in the final two match days



IMO all three will loose their games next gameday. Bremen will win vs. Mainz plus Mainz will loose at Leverkusen. So FSV will go down directly together with Paderborn. Between Werder and Fortuna the goal difference could decide.

last three games by team:

Mainz: at Dor, vs Bremen, at Leverkusen
Bremen: vs. BAY, at Mainz, vs. Köln
Ddorf: at Leipzig, vs. Augs., at Union


----------



## Cassano




----------



## Bure80

Looks like Sancho will stay in Dortmund. No club wants to afford the transfer fee. Dortmund has the commitment from Bellingham for next season.
Favre, Sancho, Bellingham - das sind die Pläne des BVB | waz.de |


----------



## Bon Esprit

Welcome back, Billyfield, it's been awhile- Goodbye Dynamo, good riddance. Come back when you are clean.


----------



## PansCyans

Bayern unlucky not to be up here


----------



## Deficient Mode

koyvoo said:


> Bayern unlucky not to be up here




On the other hand they're lucky not to be down a man


----------



## PansCyans

Nice take and finish by Lewa


----------



## YNWA14

Deficient Mode said:


> On the other hand they're lucky not to be down a man




Is that the yellow card incident? Doesn't look good.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Definitely a red


----------



## JoemAvs

YNWA14 said:


> Is that the yellow card incident? Doesn't look good.




Yeah he certainly couldn't have complained about getting sent off there...

But I guess the logic behind it was that the referee did spot it and decided on a yellow card and that after video review not giving red was defensible so they didn't change it...

Considering that Bayern is already champion anyways and that I want Bremen to stay up, in a way that sucks a bit though...


----------



## les Habs

Deficient Mode said:


> On the other hand they're lucky not to be down a man





If he's wearing a white shirt and that's at the Bernabeu it's called a great challenge.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

les Habs said:


> If he's wearing a white shirt and that's at the Bernabeu it's called a great challenge.



Casemiro special


----------



## PansCyans

Davies sent off

both yellows very questionable IMO


----------



## YNWA14

koyvoo said:


> Davies sent off
> 
> both yellows very questionable IMO



In that the first yellow should have been a red, and this second yellow shouldn't have been a foul?


----------



## gary69

gary69 said:


> *Top 10 fastest Bundesliga players since records began in 2011-12*
> 
> 1) Achraf Hakimi (22.67 mph / 36.49 km/h)
> 2) Rabbi Matondo (22.35 mph /35.97 km/h
> 3) Kingsley Ehizibue (22.3 mph / 35.85 km/h)
> 4) Kingsley Coman (22.16 mph / 35.66 km/h)
> 5) Jeremiah St. Juste (22.12 mph / 35.60 km/h)
> 6) Fabian Johnson (22.05 mph / 35.50 hm/h)
> 7) Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang (22.02 mph / 35.44 km/h)
> 8) Sheraldo Becker (22.01 mph / 35.43 km/h)
> 9) Lukas Klünter (21.99 mph / 35.40 km/h)
> 10) Artjoms Rudnevs (21.98 mph / 35.39 km/h)
> =10) Jan Rosenthal (21.98 mph / 35.39 km/h)
> 
> Hakimi named Bundesliga's fastest player since data collection began | Goal.com
> 
> No Davies on the list yet.




Davies went top of the list in today's game.


----------



## Cassano

8 straight titles Lol


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

gary69 said:


> Davies went top of the list in today's game.




The names on the list kinda show what it's worth.


----------



## Hadoop

8-peat for Bayern!! Incredible stuff from the Bavarians.

On a related note I wonder if Lewandowski finally gets nominated for the Ballon d'Or this year.


----------



## Bon Esprit

It seems Hamburg don't want to play in 1. Bundesliga next season. Another tie. And the best part is that they have to play at Heidenheim in two weeks. If's possible they finish 4th.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Reyna sick; another last minute scratch when he was about to get his first start. Dortmund's bench is totally depleted right now but the starting 11 is good.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Kai already should've had an assist. Beauty pass to set up diaby who we all agree isnt actually good?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Well he almost scored an insane solo run to shut me up.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Reallx,,bvb, at home vs.Mainz?


----------



## YNWA14

Sancho and Haaland can’t handle my boy Jeremiah.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Really nice ~10 pass buildup on that Mainz goal to exploit Dortmund pressing with only one player at a time.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Even worse start to the second half for Dortmund. Getting outplayed and looking unmotivated again. Mainz could have scored a couple times just before the penalty.


----------



## samabam

nice display by dortmund today to show that 8 consecutive titles for Bayern is also very much thanks to the incompetence of the competition


----------



## Deficient Mode

samabam said:


> nice display by dortmund today to show that 8 consecutive titles for Bayern is also very much thanks to the incompetence of the competition




Bayern have certainly lost games when there has been nothing left for them to play for too


----------



## samabam

Deficient Mode said:


> Bayern have certainly lost games when there has been nothing left for them to play for too




true
and they have been called out when it was a game that was significant for the relegation battle


----------



## YNWA14

Deficient Mode said:


> Bayern have certainly lost games when there has been nothing left for them to play for too



Could they not still drop out of a CL spot in theory?


----------



## Deficient Mode

YNWA14 said:


> Could they not still drop out of a CL spot in theory?




No. They're guaranteed 2nd or 3rd. Gladbach are 7 points behind with 2 matches left.


----------



## YNWA14

Deficient Mode said:


> No. They're guaranteed 2nd or 3rd. Gladbach are 7 points behind with 2 matches left.



Oh my b forgot there’s only 2 games left.


----------



## Lambo

BVB with no character. Mercanary!


----------



## Deficient Mode

I wouldn't even say the main reason Dortmund lost was because they had nothing to play for though. Mainz played very well and Dortmund have had plenty of matches like that this season despite their recent form. They nearly went scoreless against Fortuna too and played their best roster almost the entire game. I don't agree with criticism for them affecting the relegation race by not trying.


----------



## PeteWorrell

Lucien Favre is a good coach for clubs looking to overachieve; not to actually win the title. Hopefully, they are done with him at the end of the month.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Dortmund won alot of new fans yesterday.
Charakterlos: Fußball-Fans werfen BVB ekelhafte Wettbewerbsverzerrung vor

yes, I am one of them.


----------



## Lambo

BVB lacks an obsession for success. They will never come close to the level of Bayern. Visiting a hairdresser is more important for BVB than winning a game.


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Lambo said:


> BVB lacks an obsession for success. They will never come close to the level of Bayern. Visiting a hairdresser is more important for BVB than winning a game.




As a fanbase or a club? Neither is true.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Dortmund lacks the ability to sit on players like Bayern can. At the end of the day, in the era of the super club.. you either are one or you're not. Dortmund are 'close' but they aren't at this point. They can't compete with the top 5-10 clubs in Europe for players. The fact they can still outbid pretty much everyone in Germany other than Bayern shows how steep the differences are by now. 

Everyone other than those few 'destination clubs' is basically in a position where every player is just a temporary solution for as little as one season. Players that stick around longer do so for a reason - a reason most likely working against your success. 

It's hard to say what Dortmund will need to do to become a 'destination club' or 'super club' short of being purchased by a billionaire. I think the days where you can get there just by solid management are over because you just can't generate the capital like that. Dortmund are only what 10 years removed from fighting against relegation, 15 years from near bankruptcy. There's not Bayern's 50 year foundation of commercial and sporting success to build on.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Bon Esprit said:


> Dortmund won alot of new fans yesterday.
> Charakterlos: Fußball-Fans werfen BVB ekelhafte Wettbewerbsverzerrung vor
> 
> yes, I am one of them.




These people need to get a clue. Winning every match was never BVB's standard, nor the standard of any other team in Bundesliga history apart from Bayern of the past 8 years. They've lost or drawn plenty of matches against bottom table teams nearly every year and looked a shadow of themselves in the process. They drew against Paderborn - a team with the 4th worst record of the last 20 seasons through 32 matches - earlier this season, and they drew 0:0 to last year's even worse Hannover side. They looked just as awful at home against Bremen in the fall and drew 2-2, so the angry fans peddling conspiracy theories should remember the evidence of this themselves.

Takes a special type of observational bias to blame your relegation on an outside match at the end of the season when your team has put up 28 points in 32 matches.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Deficient Mode said:


> These people need to get a clue. Winning every match was never BVB's standard, nor the standard of any other team in Bundesliga history apart from Bayern of the past 8 years. They've lost or drawn plenty of matches against bottom table teams nearly every year and looked a shadow of themselves in the process. They drew against Paderborn - a team with the 4th worst record of the last 20 seasons through 32 matches - earlier this season, and they drew 0:0 to last year's even worse Hannover side. They looked just as awful at home against Bremen in the fall and drew 2-2, so the angry fans peddling conspiracy theories should remember the evidence of this themselves.
> 
> Takes a special type of observational bias to blame your relegation on an outside match at the end of the season when your team has put up 28 points in 32 matches.



You might be right, nonetheless football fans like me are disappointed with Dortmund's effort.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Bon Esprit said:


> You might be right, nonetheless football fans like me are disappointed with Dortmund's effort.




Welcome to the club.


----------



## Lambo

ScottishCanuck said:


> As a fanbase or a club? Neither is true.



The club! Overrated!


----------



## Bon Esprit

Some important games today.
Of course Leipzig-Dortmund. Bremen and Düsseldorf with MUST-WIN games vs. Mainz and Augsburg. Maybe Union and Freiburg can steal a point or 3.


----------



## Michigan

U.S. star Reyna makes first Dortmund start


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

All eyes should really be on Bremen-Mainz and Düsseldorf-Augsburg.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Bayer on the cusp of CL then lay an egg happened a few times. Maybe release Palacios!


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Not a good week for Clemens Tönnies.


----------



## Cassano

Have Schalke lost every game since return? Wagner still has a job?


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Cassano said:


> Have Schalke lost every game since return? Wagner still has a job?




They've drawn two, lost the rest. Honestly they have won only 1 league game since the Nübel transfer to Bayern was announced (and that was the 1st one after the announcement). It seems pretty obvious that team chemistry was basically shot after that transfer saga, and Wagner is basically not going to be able to fix it with the current squad. They may have put themselves into a HSV-like mess.

This is by the way a decent example of the methods used by Bayern to dominate the league for so long. Going after your league rivals' best and most promising players doesn't just give you talent, it also is always a disruptive force for those other teams sowing the seeds of discontent (see also Götze transfer back then).


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Not a good week for Clemens Tönnies.



1000 of his employees in quarantaine and his club is crap plus his nephew wants him out.


----------



## Bon Esprit

So, my plan seems to pan out. Braunschweig is second in the 3rd league, Werder is 17th in the first, HSV is 3rd in the second.


----------



## HajdukSplit

Dortmund confirm 2nd place, Leipzig due to their superior GD are in the CL next season too but 5th place is three points behind (RB Leipzig have a +27 on Leverkusen though )

Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim combined with Freiburg's loss confirm their spot in next season's EL, only question is who finishes 6th and avoid the qualifying rounds which next season will be single elimination matches. Both are on the same points but Wolfsburg have a far superior GD, though Wolfsburg host Bayern next round but Hoffenheim go to Dortmund

Mainz and Augsburg safe, Fortuna didn't do the job at home and still go to the final day nervy, however Bremen lost to Mainz and now must win on the final day and hope Fortuna don't get a result. Both play teams with nothing to play for, Fortuna going to Union while Bremen host Koln


----------



## Bure80

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> It's hard to say what Dortmund will need to do to become a 'destination club' or 'super club' short of being purchased by a billionaire. I think the days where you can get there just by solid management are over because you just can't generate the capital like that. Dortmund are only what 10 years removed from fighting against relegation, 15 years from near bankruptcy. There's not Bayern's 50 year foundation of commercial and sporting success to build on.




They come a little bit closer because of the new main sponsor 1&1. They got 20 Mio€/season from Evonik. 1&1 pays 40 Mio€/season.


----------



## PeteWorrell

People bash Dortmund for bottling but Leipzig has been even worse. Not sure how they are going to cope now that Werner is gone.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Tomorrow is do or die for HSV. Hamburg at Heidenheim.

I'm oldschool. If someone had told me 5 years ago Bremen fighting relegation and HSV fighting for promotion I had declared him crazy. Well, times are changing.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

I don't know, 5 years ago Bremen were already a mid-table side and HSV were in the relegation playoff. The current scenario was already pretty likely given the lack of investment in Bremen and the total chaos in Hamburg. Now, 15 years ago, yeah that would have been seen as crazy, Werder were a CL side and Hamburg were still talking about becoming a contender at any point now.


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> I don't know, 5 years ago Bremen were already a mid-table side and HSV were in the relegation playoff. The current scenario was already pretty likely given the lack of investment in Bremen and the total chaos in Hamburg. Now, 15 years ago, yeah that would have been seen as crazy, Werder were a CL side and Hamburg were still talking about becoming a contender at any point now.



Nobody ever thought Hamburg ever get relegated, It was a bad year or two, they said. Just like Bochum in the old days. They called themselves "Die Unabsteigbaren". HSV learned it's easier to get relegated than promoted. IMO HSV is as rotten as Schalke is.
Bremen is different. They only lost Kruse and totally fell apart after he left. Nonetheless there is much less pressure. If they get relegated, they'll come back soon.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Are all the Werder fans who cried about Dortmund losing to Mainz still raving after they lost to Mainz head-to-head too? Or is Dortmund's characterless, mercenary culture still the reason they're in 17th place rather than their own awful performance?


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> Nobody ever thought Hamburg ever get relegated, It was a bad year or two, they said. Just like Bochum in the old days. They called themselves "Die Unabsteigbaren". HSV learned it's easier to get relegated than promoted. IMO HSV is as rotten as Schalke is.
> Bremen is different. They only lost Kruse and totally fell apart after he left. Nonetheless there is much less pressure. If they get relegated, they'll come back soon.




I think HSV are actually far more rotten than Schalke.


----------



## Hadoop

Who needs fans when you have Erling Haaland's unbridled enthusiasm?


----------



## DrMartinVanNostrand

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Dortmund lacks the ability to sit on players like Bayern can. At the end of the day, in the era of the super club.. you either are one or you're not. Dortmund are 'close' but they aren't at this point. They can't compete with the top 5-10 clubs in Europe for players. The fact they can still outbid pretty much everyone in Germany other than Bayern shows how steep the differences are by now.
> 
> Everyone other than those few 'destination clubs' is basically in a position where every player is just a temporary solution for as little as one season. Players that stick around longer do so for a reason - a reason most likely working against your success.
> 
> It's hard to say what Dortmund will need to do to become a 'destination club' or 'super club' short of being purchased by a billionaire. I think the days where you can get there just by solid management are over because you just can't generate the capital like that. Dortmund are only what 10 years removed from fighting against relegation, 15 years from near bankruptcy. There's not Bayern's 50 year foundation of commercial and sporting success to build on.




I'll keep this in the context of Germany but it can be applied across Europe - when it comes to Dortmund vs. Bayern, the problems for Dortmund come in the fact that Bayern have a more prestigious history, which makes them more appealing. Bayern are a well-run club with great sponsorship agreements that finance them better than anybody else in Germany (and, thanks to this, they can pay their players top wages). And Bayern play in Munich, which most people would say is the most desirable city to live in Germany (everything else being equal). I'm not saying any of this to knock Dortmund the club, or Dortmund the city (or the Ruhr region or NRW as a whole). But those are factors they can't compete with. It's not their fault, and it's not Bayern's fault - I mean, it's not their "fault" that their board does a fantastic job running the club. 

So good luck to Dortmund, or anyone else really, being able to fight the fight with Bayern on a consistent basis year-to-year. Given the reluctance in Germany to abolish or soften 50% + 1, you're simply not going to see teams be taken over and injected with tons of cash. Bayern has established something of a runaway train here and what's probably even more frightening is that, with the transfer business we've seen them do and/or be linked to ahead of next season, I'm not really sure when or where that's going to change anytime soon. This team is likely to add Sane and might be able to add Havertz. This being a team that really might win the treble this year. How do you close the gap on that?!

I'm not saying this to be one of those "Bayernliga" complainers, btw. It might be boring but this is my favorite football league in the world and I will always watch it. But if you told me to take a bet on whether Bayern wins the league every year through the '20s, or someone else wins it during one of those years, I'd probably bet on Bayern to sweep the decade. I just don't see where this is going to change.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Sorry, but LOL HSV.

Liveticker | 1. FC Heidenheim - Hamburger SV 2:1 | 33. Spieltag | 2. Bundesliga 2019/20

I can't believe it.


----------



## gary69

Bon Esprit said:


> Sorry, but LOL HSV.
> 
> Liveticker | 1. FC Heidenheim - Hamburger SV 2:1 | 33. Spieltag | 2. Bundesliga 2019/20
> 
> I can't believe it.




How many times they have given up the lead and lost/drawn a match instead? Must be close to record for a team so high in the standings.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bielefeld giving up a 3-0 lead in a match with relegation battle implications has to be much worse than what Dortmund did against Mainz. Fix is in?


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Bielefeld giving up a 3-0 lead in a match with relegation battle implications has to be much worse than what Dortmund did against Mainz. Fix is in?



And the last game will be vs. Heidenheim...

BTW, Welcome back VfB.


----------



## Deficient Mode

DrMartinVanNostrand said:


> I'll keep this in the context of Germany but it can be applied across Europe - when it comes to Dortmund vs. Bayern, the problems for Dortmund come in the fact that Bayern have a more prestigious history, which makes them more appealing. Bayern are a well-run club with great sponsorship agreements that finance them better than anybody else in Germany (and, thanks to this, they can pay their players top wages). And Bayern play in Munich, which most people would say is the most desirable city to live in Germany (everything else being equal). I'm not saying any of this to knock Dortmund the club, or Dortmund the city (or the Ruhr region or NRW as a whole). But those are factors they can't compete with. It's not their fault, and it's not Bayern's fault - I mean, it's not their "fault" that their board does a fantastic job running the club.
> 
> So good luck to Dortmund, or anyone else really, being able to fight the fight with Bayern on a consistent basis year-to-year. Given the reluctance in Germany to abolish or soften 50% + 1, you're simply not going to see teams be taken over and injected with tons of cash. Bayern has established something of a runaway train here and what's probably even more frightening is that, with the transfer business we've seen them do and/or be linked to ahead of next season, I'm not really sure when or where that's going to change anytime soon. This team is likely to add Sane and might be able to add Havertz. This being a team that really might win the treble this year. How do you close the gap on that?!
> 
> I'm not saying this to be one of those "Bayernliga" complainers, btw. It might be boring but this is my favorite football league in the world and I will always watch it. But if you told me to take a bet on whether Bayern wins the league every year through the '20s, or someone else wins it during one of those years, I'd probably bet on Bayern to sweep the decade. I just don't see where this is going to change.




I agree with a lot of this but I don't think Bayern is even run particularly competently. The growing financial gap allows them to get away with incompetence and still win the league title, like the choice to hire Kovac. The club's history, the wealth of the city, and the lack of a regional competitor all made this a layup for them. I don't know if I would even say that their financial management to set this up was brilliant, or if those factors assured their financial superiority. And I agree that barring major financial changes to the league or the whole sport, Bayern are likely to lose the title maybe once every 5-10 years. And the league is still enjoyable despite that inevitability.


----------



## Bon Esprit

gary69 said:


> How many times they have given up the lead and lost/drawn a match instead? Must be close to record for a team so high in the standings.



I just read it was the fourth time since corona break. Unbelievable.


----------



## Hadoop

Deficient Mode said:


> ...Bayern are likely to lose the title maybe once every 5-10 years. And the league is still enjoyable despite that inevitability.




This. And I really do believe the league as a whole is fairly well-run and deserving of the spotlight they've had the last few weeks.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Hadoop said:


> This. And I really do believe the league as a whole is fairly well-run and deserving of the spotlight they've had the last few weeks.



Its amazingly run. Sure no one can match munich spending power but they have multiple teams that play an exciting brand of footy. Much more entertaining than epl/serie a


----------



## DrMartinVanNostrand

So, on US television, the FS1 game of choice for the final day of the season is...Wolfsburg/Bayern. While Wolfsburg are technically trying to finish in 6th and avoid the Europa League qualifying rounds, Bayern have nothing at all to play for. Meanwhile, there's Gladbach/Hertha with Champions League qualification at stake, but that game is relegated to #3 in Fox's priority list.

It's a fitting end to their Bundesliga coverage, really. They already began to mail it in at the start of this season, rarely airing the Saturday Topspiel even after college football season ended, not airing the Friday games anymore because of the need to have Colin Cowherd's radio show air on television instead, and then they doubled down on it after the COVID restart, with absolutely zero studio-type coverage to speak of. Which, you know, I would rather see those little vignettes as opposed to hearing Alexi Lalas spew absolute nonsense, but that's not really the point. Fox hasn't made any effort beyond the absolute minimum to cover the sport this season. So it's only appropriate that they would default to a meaningless Bayern game (having already done the same this past weekend instead of airing a game between 2nd place and 3rd place) as opposed to airing either of the games with direct Champions League implications.

Good riddance, Fox. You won't be missed.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

DrMartinVanNostrand said:


> So, on US television, the FS1 game of choice for the final day of the season is...Wolfsburg/Bayern. While Wolfsburg are technically trying to finish in 6th and avoid the Europa League qualifying rounds, Bayern have nothing at all to play for. Meanwhile, there's Gladbach/Hertha with Champions League qualification at stake, but that game is relegated to #3 in Fox's priority list.
> 
> It's a fitting end to their Bundesliga coverage, really. They already began to mail it in at the start of this season, rarely airing the Saturday Topspiel even after college football season ended, not airing the Friday games anymore because of the need to have Colin Cowherd's radio show air on television instead, and then they doubled down on it after the COVID restart, with absolutely zero studio-type coverage to speak of. Which, you know, I would rather see those little vignettes as opposed to hearing Alexi Lalas spew absolute nonsense, but that's not really the point. Fox hasn't made any effort beyond the absolute minimum to cover the sport this season. So it's only appropriate that they would default to a meaningless Bayern game (having already done the same this past weekend instead of airing a game between 2nd place and 3rd place) as opposed to airing either of the games with direct Champions League implications.
> 
> Good riddance, Fox. You won't be missed.




I think ESPN will probably cover it better. I don't think Fox covers sports well. ESPN has always covered this sport much better than Fox, as well. It was a shame that Fox was awarded the 2018 and 2022 World Cups in a rigged bidding process.


----------



## PanniniClaus

Next year in Canada DAZN has the Friday and Sunday coverage. I assume Sportsnetworld will take Saturday...I don't know if that has been confirmed.


----------



## DrMartinVanNostrand

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I think ESPN will probably cover it better. I don't think Fox covers sports well. ESPN has always covered this sport much better than Fox, as well. It was a shame that Fox was awarded the 2018 and 2022 World Cups in a rigged bidding process.




I hesitate saying that only because ESPN is going to relegate almost everything to ESPN+, so it won't even be on television at all, and I also have some serious irritation with their Serie A coverage (taking just yesterday alone as an example - I have many others - they aired SPAL vs. Cagliari when Verona vs. Napoli was on at the same time...why?) but at least ESPN+ is a reasonable product and every Bundesliga game would figure to be available on-demand for at least a good period of time after they have been played, so if you miss a game, it doesn't necessarily mean you've missed your chance to watch it. Not a big deal for the Bayern and Dortmund fans of the world, but for the Gladbach fans of the world, I can't always be 100% sure of being able to find a broadcast if I missed the game (though this has gotten better over the years).

In any case, even if I don't rate ESPN's soccer coverage as being great, it still beats Fox by some distance. Fox puts all their effort into the NFL and Big Ten college football, and Turner puts all their effort into the NBA. None of the other sports properties those companies have matters nearly as much to them. Getting mildly OT in saying this but Turner's soccer coverage is appallingly bad.


----------



## robertmac43

If anyone wants to watch lower league German football this channel has been playing games for free.


----------



## Lambo

Deficient Mode said:


> I agree with a lot of this but I don't think Bayern is even run particularly competently. The growing financial gap allows them to get away with incompetence and still win the league title, like the choice to hire Kovac. The club's history, the wealth of the city, and the lack of a regional competitor all made this a layup for them. I don't know if I would even say that their financial management to set this up was brilliant, or if those factors assured their financial superiority. And I agree that barring major financial changes to the league or the whole sport, Bayern are likely to lose the title maybe once every 5-10 years. And the league is still enjoyable despite that inevitability.



FC Bayern has built up an unachievable lead. It is comparable to trying to set up and build a beer brewery in Germany. Who are you competing with? With Krombacher, Warsteiner, Veltins etc. You have no chance. Unless you are a billionaire or you have a multi-million dollar investor behind you who finances everything(Than you ve al little chance). In the Bundesliga there is the 50 + 1 rule. And you don't have a chance vs Bayern. Unless you get rid of 50 + 1. This is not a grant, but the chances then increase that large wealthy cities like Hamburg, Cologne, Frankfurt, and Stuttgart would then have many larger financial resources. I know that many German companies would get into football if they ve the command.


----------



## Lambo

delete


----------



## Albatros

Lambo said:


> FC Bayern has built up an unachievable lead. It is comparable to trying to set up and build a beer brewery in Germany. Who are you competing with? With Krombacher, Warsteiner, Veltins etc. You have no chance. Unless you are a billionaire or you have a multi-million dollar investor behind you who finances everything(Than you ve al little chance). In the Bundesliga there is the 50 + 1 rule. And you don't have a chance vs Bayern. Unless you get rid of 50 + 1. This is not a grant, but the chances then increase that large wealthy cities like Hamburg, Cologne, Frankfurt, and Stuttgart would then have many larger financial resources. I know that many German companies would get into football if they ve the command.




Volkswagen and Bayer have their own clubs, Red Bull and SAP factually too, they are relatively competitive but in the end this concept does not have what it takes to challenge.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

German companies can't really justify pumping the kind of sums into a football club that you would need to compete with the big boys on a global level. That's more oil sheikh/dictator territory where you don't really have to justify your decisions to anyone and wasting money left and right is par for the course.

If you give up 50+1, you'd mostly just get investment from the usual suspects - Russia, Middle East, Far East. It'd be a foreign 'blood money' takeover of the league. It's wildly unpopular in Germany with fans and even the general public.


----------



## DrMartinVanNostrand

And, for my part, I believe that loosening the grip of 50+1 would perhaps allow for more competition at the top, but if that's not what Germans want - abolition of 50+1, that is - then that's their culture and not my place to judge as someone who isn't German except for some faint ancestry. But as long as this is the case, I'm not seeing how we can expect the Meisterschale to change hands anytime soon.


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> German companies can't really justify pumping the kind of sums into a football club that you would need to compete with the big boys on a global level. That's more oil sheikh/dictator territory where you don't really have to justify your decisions to anyone and wasting money left and right is par for the course.
> 
> If you give up 50+1, you'd mostly just get investment from the usual suspects - Russia, Middle East, Far East. It'd be a foreign 'blood money' takeover of the league. It's wildly unpopular in Germany with fans and even the general public.



Germans hate the idea that their team becomes a 1860 München version 2.0.
Once they were more successful and more respected and wealthier than Bayern. But that was almost 60 years ago. Today they play Unterhaching.

The EPL model wouldn't work in Germany. I wouldn't call Hannover 96 fans very passionate (as a whole compared to other fanbases) and even a casual H96 supporter would kill Martin Kind because of his 50+1 actions. Schalke (unlike Dortmund) is even able to put football in a seperate company because of the fans.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> Germans hate the idea that their team becomes a 1860 München version 2.0.
> Once they were more successful and more respected and wealthier than Bayern. But that was almost 60 years ago. Today they play Unterhaching.
> 
> The EPL model wouldn't work in Germany. I wouldn't call Hannover 96 fans very passionate (as a whole compared to other fanbases) and even a casual H96 supporter would kill Martin Kind because of his 50+1 actions. Schalke (unlike Dortmund) is even able to put football in a seperate company because of the fans.




At this point, I'd prefer Bayern and Leipzig to go off and join some European super league and the rest can play out the German championship.


----------



## Lambo

Bon Esprit said:


> Germans hate the idea that their team becomes a 1860 München version 2.0.
> Once they were more successful and more respected and wealthier than Bayern. But that was almost 60 years ago. Today they play Unterhaching.
> 
> The EPL model wouldn't work in Germany. I wouldn't call Hannover 96 fans very passionate (as a whole compared to other fanbases) and even a casual H96 supporter would kill Martin Kind because of his 50+1 actions. Schalke (unlike Dortmund) is even able to put football in a seperate company because of the fans.



1860 is a negative example. But okay but with 50 + 1 you ve Bayern as eternal chamion and the rest of Bundesliga-Clubs make youth work for Bayern, PL-Clubs + other rich european clubs. This is not a bright future for Bundesliga.


----------



## Bon Esprit

I leave that here:

ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder imPUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.

Need to think about this tomorrow.


----------



## Cassano




----------



## Bon Esprit

Cassano said:


>




No surprise. Congrats to him. One of the best strikers in Buli history.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Last gameday and only two decitions left. I don't think Bayer will overtake Gladbach and I hope Werder won't overtake Fortuna. No issues with Werder, but I want Funkel to get his last bonus and a good (nothern) 2 Liga.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Rough debut for Balerdi.


----------



## YNWA14

Florian Wirtz already has 7 (successful) dribbles in the first half of this game, haha.

Also really nice to see Sinkgraven hopefully putting his injury woes behind him to get some consistent time. He was such a talent.


----------



## Bon Esprit




----------



## Halladay

Not that it matters for them, but Dortmund is getting trounced. Getting killed on the counter.


----------



## HajdukSplit

Fortuna have only themselves to blame not getting a single win in the final two games playing against teams with nothing to play for. I know they don’t have much quality but I’m sure mentally they never came back from that last second loss to Dortmund

Overall not much drama in the final minutes, maybe Schalke concede more


----------



## Bon Esprit

Halladay said:


> Not that it matters for them, but Dortmund is getting trounced. Getting killed on the counter.



The difference between a world class club like Bayern (who I dislike) and Dortmund is: They don't lose at home 0:4 on last gameday. Pathetic.


----------



## ItsFineImFine

I can see why people were meme-ing Odriozola. Dude is not very good, Wolfsburg's attackers were exposing him a bit today. I think Flick switched Coman to the right side around the first water break just cos Coman could track back and help out more whereas Gnabry was doing nothing defensively.


----------



## SSF

Union finish above Schalke haha


----------



## Lambo

Werder alive! Now Relegation-Play Off vs hsv or Heidenheim.


----------



## les Habs

Excellent goal haul for Lewandowski, but three other players from a stats perspective who stand out for me are Werner, Mueller and Sancho.


----------



## Hadoop

Classy brace from Timo Werner in his Leipzig farewell. Good for him.


----------



## Hadoop

les Habs said:


> Excellent goal haul for Lewandowski, but three other players from a stats perspective who stand out for me are Werner, Mueller and Sancho.




Excellent shout-outs there. Really enjoyed watching all three this season.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Werder vs HSV would be a magnificent relegation playoff in normal circumstances...without fans though it will be weird and potentially dangerous as ultras of both teams may try to 'meet' regardless.


----------



## Albatros

I'm not sure if the element of danger would be any better though, for both sides that would be _Sieg oder Spielabbruch_. Like this they'll at least settle it on the pitch win or lose as it should be.


----------



## Bon Esprit

SSF said:


> Union finish above Schalke haha



Schalke losers accomplished 1 win and 9 points in the second half.
Man, I hope Billyfield, Stuttgart and the third party will be strong next year and the Schalke and Köln freaks get relegated.


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Werder vs HSV would be a magnificent relegation playoff in normal circumstances...without fans though it will be weird and potentially dangerous as ultras of both teams may try to 'meet' regardless.



TBH I liked the idea at first, but when you think about it, it would be bad. Both fanbases are insane. Remember Adrian Maleika.


----------



## DrMartinVanNostrand

ItsFineImFine said:


> I can see why people were meme-ing Odriozola. Dude is not very good, Wolfsburg's attackers were exposing him a bit today. I think Flick switched Coman to the right side around the first water break just cos Coman could track back and help out more whereas Gnabry was doing nothing defensively.




I'm not sure that's fair to Odriozola, however. Had he played at all during his time at Bayern prior to yesterday (at least, in anything other than garbage time)? Someone who doesn't play much with other first-choice players isn't likely to have much chemistry with them. Lack chemistry and you can look disjointed and out of it. 

Not that it matters at this point to Bayern. Obviously he's not staying there because there's no real need for it. And with Achraf leaving, there is a role for him back at Madrid. Whether he can improve his game to justify a role there is entirely up to him.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Oh boy. HSV. 0-2 after 25 mins.


----------



## SSF

Heidenheim also trails 2-0 at half to Bielefeld.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

HSV need one goal.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Oh the humanity, Sandhausen scores and it looks like it's all over.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Haha HSV

Looking forward to watching Bielefeld next year.


----------



## SSF

Heidenheim and Werder it is.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Heidenheim in the BuLi would be another more low key Hoffenheim. City with less than 50k residents, sponsored by not one but two large (but not well known) companies in the Hartmann group and the Voith group. It's just further proof that at the end of the day, steady management coupled with steady financial investment leads to better outcomes on the field than being a big name club with a lot of fans. It seems like having a famous name as a club and the emotional investment from a large fan base if anything has a negative impact on a team's performance.


----------



## Lambo

HSV    Together with Schalke the most confused clubs in german professional Football. Werder with good chances to save the Bundesliga. The danger of underestimating the opponent is big.


----------



## DrMartinVanNostrand

I will say, and this is with zero judgment or calling anyone hypocrites really for doing so (even if it might be hypocritical behavior), but I do find it funny that Germans, in general, are having a laugh at Hamburg for screwing up time and time again, but if it weren't for the Leipzig's and Hoffenheim's of the world "stealing" Bundesliga spots, Hamburg would probably still be too big to fall out of the top flight.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good laugh at Hamburg as well. They deserve it for that running clock they used to have in their stadium. But if the values we're told about in Germany are to be followed, then Heidenheim having a chance at promotion instead of Hamburg doesn't really jive with them. They would seem to conflict.


----------



## Bon Esprit

SSF said:


> Heidenheim and Werder it is.



Werder will tear them apart.


----------



## Bon Esprit

So my masterplan failed. At least Braunschweig might go up.


----------



## Deficient Mode

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Heidenheim in the BuLi would be another more low key Hoffenheim. City with less than 50k residents, sponsored by not one but two large (but not well known) companies in the Hartmann group and the Voith group. It's just further proof that at the end of the day, steady management coupled with steady financial investment leads to better outcomes on the field than being a big name club with a lot of fans. It seems like having a famous name as a club and the emotional investment from a large fan base if anything has a negative impact on a team's performance.




Good steady management is key but having a large, passionate fan base is definitely a positive. No guarantee these types of teams stick in the first league. Ingolstadt didn't. I doubt Heidenheim sticks around very long. There's 10x more room for Schalke to mess up (and they have) than for these clubs.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Deficient Mode said:


> Good steady management is key but having a large, passionate fan base is definitely a positive. No guarantee these types of teams stick in the first league. Ingolstadt didn't. I doubt Heidenheim sticks around very long. There's 10x more room for Schalke to mess up (and they have) than for these clubs.




IMO the big name tends to attract chancers, hucksters, snake oil salesmen. Look at "pillar of the community" Tönnies. These types of people tend to play to the gallery with big promises. And due to the large and passionate fan base everyone in the club feels the pressure of having success in the near term which makes everyone vulnerable to dubious men with big promises.


----------



## Bon Esprit

So your main opponent is losing 3-0 and you have no better things to do than losing 5-1 at home vs Sandhausen in the most important game in the last two years? Time to install a 2. Liga clock in Hamburg already.


----------



## robertmac43

Mario Gomez announced his retirement from professional football today.


----------



## Deficient Mode

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> IMO the big name tends to attract chancers, hucksters, snake oil salesmen. Look at "pillar of the community" Tönnies. These types of people tend to play to the gallery with big promises. And due to the large and passionate fan base everyone in the club feels the pressure of having success in the near term which makes everyone vulnerable to dubious men with big promises.




What do these rich people who gain influence at HSV, Schalke, etc. really gain from this if the club fails and becomes less valuable? Why intentionally make big promises that you won't keep? Have they bet against their own clubs? They're poorly managed but I don't see what part of that is caused by having a big fan base.


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## TheMoreYouKnow

Deficient Mode said:


> What do these rich people who gain influence at HSV, Schalke, etc. really gain from this if the club fails and becomes less valuable? Why intentionally make big promises that you won't keep? Have they bet against their own clubs? They're poorly managed but I don't see what part of that is caused by having a big fan base.




For this type of person it's all about ego. You get a lot more media hype and adoration by being the 'big boss' at Schalke or HSV than you would running a meat processing plant or a construction company or whatever else it might be. It's not like they intentionally want to do poorly, it's that they need to be little dictators and don't know much about the football business, so they can't hire professionals to do that 'solid management' we talked about.

A big fan base has a lot of influence at a club, HSV fans and Schalke fans can - together with the local media which can drive fans in certain directions but at the same time is heavily influenced by the mood in town - influence decision-making. Fans know even less about the business side than the impresarios in charge, but are often eager to get a speedy turnaround, to have someone with power and money in charge, and they're quick to find scapegoats. They breathe down the necks of everyone, upping the pressure on management and players.

Teams like Leipzig or Hoffenheim can quietly run the club like you'd run any medium sized business. They don't face burning scarves, rocks thrown at the team bus, pitch invasions, angry fans outside the club offices demanding to speak to someone in charge, or critical, alarmist headlines in the local papers, weekly opinion pieces from former players or coaches, constant speculation about the club's next moves.

One of the favorite words of beleaguered managers, directors and players at such clubs is "Unruhe" (turmoil, unrest, agitation) to describe what they don't want, but suspect third parties are trying to incite at the club. Big fan bases can cause a lot of that.


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## Albatros

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Heidenheim in the BuLi would be another more low key Hoffenheim. City with less than 50k residents, sponsored by not one but two large (but not well known) companies in the Hartmann group and the Voith group. It's just further proof that at the end of the day, steady management coupled with steady financial investment leads to better outcomes on the field than being a big name club with a lot of fans. It seems like having a famous name as a club and the emotional investment from a large fan base if anything has a negative impact on a team's performance.




Teams funded by investors come and go. If relative temporary success is what you're after then sure, you can buy that. But the clubs that are here also in 20 years are the ones with a large base.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Schalke now has a salary cap.
Schalke 04 plant offenbar als erster Bundesligist eine Gehaltsobergrenze


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## Bon Esprit

Bon Esprit said:


> Schalke now has a salary cap.
> Schalke 04 plant offenbar als erster Bundesligist eine Gehaltsobergrenze



And now the taxpayer guarantees.
Schalke 04 soll im Notfall mit Steuergeldern gerettet werden - WELT


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## Bon Esprit

Clemens Tönnies steps down at Schalke.
It's the best for all, I think. He will probably face legal issues for his business, then the rassist crap from last year. Next idiotic Schalke supervisory board chief to take over.


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## Albatros

Sad that it required a political intervention, hopefully there are also other conditions than the departure of Tönnies and a salary cap.


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## Bon Esprit

Two or three things happened in German football.

First things first: Welcome back BTSV. I guess I'm the only H96 supporter who doesn't hate you.
Sadly we lost Jena and Münster and maybe CFC.
Sane will play at Bayern. 50m is insane low by today's standard. 
Tonight there will be the Werder-Heidenheim game. I guess Werder will win this easily.


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## PanniniClaus

Bremen vs Heidenheim..just finished watching it. Painful game of football.


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## les Habs

Bon Esprit said:


> Two or three things happened in German football.
> 
> First things first: Welcome back BTSV. I guess I'm the only H96 supporter who doesn't hate you.
> Sadly we lost Jena and Münster and maybe CFC.
> *Sane will play at Bayern. 50m is insane low by today's standard. *
> Tonight there will be the Werder-Heidenheim game. I guess Werder will win this easily.




It is for a player of his ability generally, but some things at play here:

COVID-19 transfer market.
Only one year left on his contract.
He wants to leave.
He probably wants to return to Germany.
He probably only wants to go to Bayern unless say Barça or Madrid came calling and even then who knows.
It will probably look a very good deal in the future, but all the above considered I don't think it's insanely low.


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## PanniniClaus

les Habs said:


> It is for a player of his ability generally, but some things at play here:
> 
> COVID-19 transfer market.
> Only one year left on his contract.
> He wants to leave.
> He probably wants to return to Germany.
> He probably only wants to go to Bayern unless say Barça or Madrid came calling and even then who knows.
> It will probably look a very good deal in the future, but all the above considered I don't think it's insanely low.



add in a 385,000 Euro per week pay packet. I think Man City had to let him go ..Bayern assume some risk but it may turn out to be a good deal for both.


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## Bon Esprit

les Habs said:


> It is for a player of his ability generally, but some things at play here:
> 
> COVID-19 transfer market.
> Only one year left on his contract.
> He wants to leave.
> He probably wants to return to Germany.
> He probably only wants to go to Bayern unless say Barça or Madrid came calling and even then who knows.
> It will probably look a very good deal in the future, but all the above considered I don't think it's insanely low.



You forgot his injury.
But let's talk about it again in 2 or 3 years.


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## Chimaera

He certainly has the talent to make that look like peanuts. 

He also could have an injury concern or not find himself in Bayern's setup. I think those two things are rather unlikely, but it has to play out.


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## les Habs

Bon Esprit said:


> You forgot his injury.
> But let's talk about it again in 2 or 3 years.




Unless he flops there won't be anything to talk about in 2 or 3 years.


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## YNWA14

Sane and Davies on the same side is going to be very difficult, if possible, to defend. Can't even imagine trying to deal with that kind of pace and on the ball ability from both men on that flank.


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## Cassano

YNWA14 said:


> Sane and Davies on the same side is going to be very difficult, if possible, to defend. Can't even imagine trying to deal with that kind of pace and on the ball ability from both men on that flank.



Sounds amazing on paper, but I am concerned about Sane post ACL injury.


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## HajdukSplit

Crazy finish in the 3rd league, both promotion and relegation spots came down to the final minutes, in the cast of promotion basically the last kick of the game. Bayern II actually won the league but they can't promote, so going up is Braunschweig and Wurzburger. Wurzberger almost threw it away but a 95th minute penalty kick saved them and put them ahead of Ingolstadt

At the bottom Chemnitzer go down on GD despite winning their final game, they conceded a 89th minute goal which put them at -6 while Zwickau finished the season at -5. However Chemnitzer I think would have still gone down due to goals scored should they have had an equal GD so they were probably still trying to score late in the match


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## sabremike

PanniniClaus said:


> Bremen vs Heidenheim..just finished watching it. Painful game of football.



Seriously the match should've been abandoned and played the next day (particularly given the high stakes and that there were no ticket buying fans to worry about).


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## Bon Esprit

Bon Esprit said:


> So my masterplan failed. At least Braunschweig might go up.



Not so fast, cowboy, not so fast...


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## Bon Esprit

HajdukSplit said:


> Crazy finish in the 3rd league, both promotion and relegation spots came down to the final minutes, in the cast of promotion basically the last kick of the game. Bayern II actually won the league but they can't promote, so going up is Braunschweig and Wurzburger. Wurzberger almost threw it away but a 95th minute penalty kick saved them and put them ahead of Ingolstadt
> 
> At the bottom Chemnitzer go down on GD despite winning their final game, they conceded a 89th minute goal which put them at -6 while Zwickau finished the season at -5. However Chemnitzer I think would have still gone down due to goals scored should they have had an equal GD so they were probably still trying to score late in the match



Thanks, themoreyouknow might not be amused.


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## TheMoreYouKnow

It was an at best long shot anyway for Chemnitz. Losing to Zwickau on Wednesday was the real killer, but there were a lot of missed opportunities in the matches before as well. They showed 'character' by fighting hard toward the end though.


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## Cassano

Bayern already won the cup 20 mins in.


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## S E P H

Nobody is watching Pokal right now? 2-0 for Bayern in the half, actually been quite boring to be honest. The clapping is insanely more annoying than the fake crowd noise FYI. 

Nothing really substantial going on from what I've seen; Havertz is good, Davies is very good, and Lewendowski is overrated. ESPN coverage absolutely sucks though, they've been more interested in talking about MLS than the actual game. Pretty much saying that Davies is the greatest fullback ever in the history of fullbacks because he played in the MLS. Then during halftime, they're legitimately talking about MLS coming back instead of the actual game lol.


----------



## Savi

Are Bayer trying to fail or what? That was a hilarious series of events


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## KingLB

S E P H said:


> Nobody is watching Pokal right now? 2-0 for Bayern in the half, actually been quite boring to be honest. The clapping is insanely more annoying than the fake crowd noise FYI.
> 
> Nothing really substantial going on from what I've seen; Havertz is good, Davies is very good, and Lewendowski is overrated. ESPN coverage absolutely sucks though, they've been more interested in talking about MLS than the actual game. Pretty much saying that Davies is the greatest fullback ever in the history of fullbacks because he played in the MLS. Then during halftime, they're legitimately talking about MLS coming back instead of the actual game lol.




ESPN with lowest ratings ever. MLS tourney next week basically their only property running right now besides UFC. I would expect them to play it up all over. Same with FOX.


----------



## Savi

Bayer have squandered so many good chances, they'll be kicking themselves


----------



## Savi

Lewa  brilliant


----------



## ItsFineImFine

I watched the first half before switching to the Chelsea game, Leverkusen just seemed like their goal was to make the game unnecessarily physical.

It's hilarious to me though, that Bayern have a very sub-optimal CB pairing which will likely get exposed by a better European team, but are still miles better than any other German club. It's really pathetic tbh.


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## Albatros

How many teams are there in any European league that have better CB pairings than Alaba & Boateng/Hernández? Optimal it may not be, but very high level regardless.


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## Cassano

Albatros said:


> How many teams are there in any European league that have better CB pairings than Alaba & Boateng/Hernández? Optimal it may not be, but very high level regardless.



I can only think of Real Madrid, Liverpool, and Barca. 

though I can see arguments of Inter and PSG (with Silva).


----------



## Evilo

Yeah lol, could see arguments for PSG lol.


----------



## Albatros

Kimpembe and Marquinhos are fine, but hardly better.


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## gary69

So, Nurnberg a playoff away from suffering a second successive relegation to 3rd liga. And Kaiserslautern still nowhere near getting promoted back to Zweite. 

Few clubs who used to be regulars in the upper leagues like Duisburg, Rostock and Uerdingen are now stuck there and smaller town clubs have taken their place.


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## Evilo

Albatros said:


> Kimpembe and Marquinhos are fine, but hardly better.



Sorry, you forgot Thiago Silva. And yes, even then, they're better BTW.


----------



## Albatros

Nothing against him, on the contrary, but Silva's even further in becoming a _has been_ than Boateng. Hummels looked like a spring chicken in their duel in February.


----------



## Evilo

Silva is much better than either.


----------



## Albatros

Yet PSG chose to let him go for free.


----------



## Bon Esprit

3 games left in German pro-football.
Heidenheim-Werder, and the Nürnberg-Ingolstadt series.
Even after the bad first game I think Werder will win in the end, maybe HSV-like 1-1 at Heidenheim.
Nürnberg sacked their coach last week. Good luck with that. 
Hecking left HSV as well.


----------



## Evilo

Albatros said:


> Yet PSG chose to let him go for free.



Yes, because his salary is huge and they want to give bigger playing time to Kimpembe.


----------



## Albatros

I'm sure he'll be signed by a big club then and not Fiorentina as is rumored.


----------



## Cassano

Evilo said:


> Yeah lol, could see arguments for PSG lol.



Silva and Kouassi(to Bayern Lol) are gone so moot point.


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## Evilo

Cassano said:


> Silva and Kouassi(to Bayern Lol) are gone so moot point.



Nope, you apparently missed the conversation points. 
It was about how european teams would have a better CB pairing than Bayern.
Since Silva is playing the end of the CL with PSG, it's not moot. He's still under contract until the end of august with PSG. He's very much a PSG player.
And since the window transfer is not closed, it's still not moot either for the future editions.


----------



## SJSharks72

Albatros said:


> Kimpembe and Marquinhos are fine, but hardly better.



They are both better than Alaba, Boateng, AND Lucas.


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## Bon Esprit

Bon Esprit said:


> 3 games left in German pro-football.
> Heidenheim-Werder, and the Nürnberg-Ingolstadt series.
> Even after the bad first game I think Werder will win in the end, maybe HSV-like 1-1 at Heidenheim.
> Nürnberg sacked their coach last week. Good luck with that.
> Hecking left HSV as well.




Btw. Türkgücü will be the first club in German pro-football established by immigrant next year.
Türkgücü München – Wikipedia

Only 4 Turks on last year's roster. I remember Energie Cottbus had zero Germans on the pitch 20 years ago. And it was considered to be the end of German football. LOL.
FC Energie Cottbus - VfL Wolfsburg, 06.04.2001 - 1. Bundesliga - Statistik

In goal the unforgetable Tomislav Piplica


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## Albatros

SJSharks39 said:


> They are both better than Alaba, Boateng, AND Lucas.




It's one thing to be a big fish in the small pond that is the French league, but already with the national team Kimpembe has seen little use. Two caps last year, nine in total.


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## SJSharks72

Albatros said:


> It's one thing to be a big fish in the small pond that is the French league, but already with the national team Kimpembe has seen little use. Two caps last year, nine in total.



Yes and if we are using national teams well none of the Bayern group play CB for their national teams consistently still.


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## YNWA14

SJSharks39 said:


> They are both better than Alaba, Boateng, AND Lucas.



Alaba? Eh...


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## Albatros

Bon Esprit said:


> Btw. Türkgücü will be the first club in German pro-football established by immigrant next year.




I guess it depends on the definitions, many early clubs had English roots and some of these have made appearances in the Bundesliga era too.


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## Albatros

SJSharks39 said:


> Yes and if we are using national teams well none of the Bayern group play CB for their national teams consistently still.




Alaba is more of a midfield maestro for Austria indeed, but it would be quite strange to try to use player's outstanding versatility against him. For FC Bayern Alaba has appeared exclusively as CB this year, resulting in 20 wins and one goalless draw.

Hernández has been out for the better part of last two years due to injuries, and yet has twice as many caps as Kimpembe despite being younger. He was also a starter during the victorious World Cup campaign.


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## Bon Esprit

Albatros said:


> I guess it depends on the definitions, many early clubs had English roots and some of these have made appearances in the Bundesliga era too.



That's correct. I meant the modern version, of course.


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## TheMoreYouKnow

Bon Esprit said:


> That's correct. I meant the modern version, of course.




Türkyemspor I believe did play 3rd tier in the 90s. Of course officially that was semi-pro back then...but players did get paid.


----------



## Evilo

Albatros said:


> Alaba is more of a midfield maestro for Austria indeed, but it would be quite strange to try to use player's outstanding versatility against him. For FC Bayern Alaba has appeared exclusively as CB this year, resulting in 20 wins and one goalless draw.
> 
> Hernández has been out for the better part of last two years due to injuries, and yet has twice as many caps as Kimpembe despite being younger. He was also a starter during the victorious World Cup campaign.



Not at CB. 
When PSG dominated Barca 4/0 and someone shut down Messi all night, it was Kimpembe. 
Also let's not compare Frznce's depth at CB with any other country.


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## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Türkyemspor I believe did play 3rd tier in the 90s. Of course officially that was semi-pro back then...but players did get paid.



Players even get payed in Kreisliga these days. I had a friend and former team-mate who played Landesliga and got paid something around 7-800 DM a month. I asked him how someone would pay him to damage his pitch. LOL. He was more a Gattuso-type of player.


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## SJSharks72

Albatros said:


> Alaba is more of a midfield maestro for Austria indeed, but it would be quite strange to try to use player's outstanding versatility against him. For FC Bayern Alaba has appeared exclusively as CB this year, resulting in 20 wins and one goalless draw.
> 
> Hernández has been out for the better part of last two years due to injuries, and yet has twice as many caps as Kimpembe despite being younger. He was also a starter during the victorious World Cup campaign.



Lucas plays LB.


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## Bon Esprit

Tonight is the night for Werder to avoid relegation.
Oh yeah, HSV has a new coach again, not news-worthy actually since they wear out coaches just like Schalke. but this time it's the first POC I think.
Hamburger SV/Namen und Zahlen – Wikipedia


----------



## gary69

Bremen took an early lead with a nice own goal.


----------



## Bon Esprit

gary69 said:


> Bremen took an early lead with a nice own goal.



Actually it's game over. Heidenheim now needs two.


----------



## ecemleafs

wasnt eggestein suppose to be a super prospect? guys trash.


----------



## PeteWorrell

ecemleafs said:


> wasnt eggestein suppose to be a super prospect? guys trash.



That boat has sailed a while ago.


----------



## ecemleafs

bremen has had no midfield for the past 20 minutes.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Game over, almost Hamburg-style. I hope they don't go the HSV route. Maybe "die Fischköppe" are smarter.


----------



## DrMartinVanNostrand

It might've been fun to have another Swabian side in the Bundesliga next year.

Oh, well. Hopefully Bremen get their crap figured out. Way too big a club to be playing in the relegation playoff.


----------



## Lambo

I am so happy that Werder saved the class. Now Werder s is going in thier 57th Buli-Season. I hope i never experience those kind of season by Werder again. Heart attack season!


----------



## PeteWorrell

Werder can always bring Pizarro out of retirement for another spell at the club.


----------



## Deficient Mode

ecemleafs said:


> wasnt eggestein suppose to be a super prospect? guys trash.




Not the one who actually played today and is in their starting 11, but his younger brother who can barely break into the squad.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Braunschweig sacked their coach today. That's what I call style. He just helped them to get promoted and gets the boot.

Braunschweig und Aufstiegscoach Antwerpen gehen getrennte Wege

2. Liga relegation playoffs start this evening. Nürnberg vs. Ingolstadt. Two former Bundesliga sides.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

The most interesting thing about the Braunschweig situation is that the fans and others close to the club don't seem to be all that surprised by the decision. I suspect there's a lot of back story that one would need to know to fully get it.


----------



## Bon Esprit

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> The most interesting thing about the Braunschweig situation is that the fans and others close to the club don't seem to be all that surprised by the decision. I suspect there's a lot of back story that one would need to know to fully get it.



I read comments on transfermarkt as well. He came in this season, wanted to play a more offensive style, but didn't have the players to do so. So he played a very defensive style to get the job done. 
As a H96 spporter I don't really care what our biggest rivals do, but its fnny. My team will do BS soon enough.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Nürnberg won the first playoff game 2-0. Hopefully thay don't loose the next one by three.


----------



## robertmac43

Love to see it!


----------



## YNWA14

Deficient Mode said:


> Not the one who actually played today and is in their starting 11, but his younger brother who can barely break into the squad.



Yeah what is going on with that Johannes guy? Went from a 'once in a hundred years' talent to not even being able to break into Bremen's team? I mean he's 22 now...


----------



## Deficient Mode

YNWA14 said:


> Yeah what is going on with that Johannes guy? Went from a 'once in a hundred years' talent to not even being able to break into Bremen's team? I mean he's 22 now...




His physical tools didn't develop well at all and (partly because of that) he has rarely gotten the chance to play as a striker for Werder to show off his shooting technique even when he has played. I'd guess a lot of the ways he scored goals as a junior player aren't really available to him now. The hazards of hyping a 17 year old before he has played at a professional level at all...


----------



## Bon Esprit

Last game of the season starts in 90mins. Ingolstadt needs at least 2 goals against Nürnberg. Fingers crossed Nürnberg at least holds the 2. Liga. We all know what happens when they go down.


----------



## DrMartinVanNostrand

Bon Esprit said:


> Nürnberg won the first playoff game 2-0. Hopefully thay don't loose the next one by three.




Well, with 20 minutes to play, so much for this.

EDIT - holy crap! Nürnberg save their necks at the death.


----------



## Bon Esprit

90+6 and they made it 1-3. WTF.


----------



## Bon Esprit

German football season is over. Bye....


----------

