# GB: World U18



## Alpine

What's the chances of moving up to Div 1 B,
Starts Mar 31....Croatia, Estonia, Hungary, Lithuania, Romania also in the group
As asked

IIHF...PAGE
http://www.iihf.com/competition/337/statistics.html

GB Roster....IIHF PAGE
http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/337/IHM3370GBR_32E_1_0.pdf


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## Call me Suds

They better get promoted lol 

Croatia, Estonia, Lithuania, Romania, South Korea isn't exactly great competition


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## Alpine

Call me Suds said:


> They better get promoted lol
> 
> Croatia, Estonia, Lithuania, Romania, South Korea isn't exactly great competition



Korea??? They are already in Div 1 B,
With no U-20 league in GB this is the group of players to watch.
They are the ones moving up to EIHL and EPIHL. If anybody wants imports reduced in these leagues this group is where the prospects of Brits come from.
IF and I mean IF.....a National Development Team like USA has could get set up playing a sked against NIHL/SNL teams like USNDT vs USHL?
Somebody give Ice Hockey UK a kick in the arse


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## Siamese Dream

I think this is a very strong year.

Good goaltending, Adam Goss took over the starting job for the U20's and had a solid performance in D1B
Good top end scoring talent: Betteridge, Hook, Cownie
Good depth

I think we will finish 3rd at least, the competition has never been stiffer at this level, Hungary and Lithuania might give us problems, but promotion is a realistic goal.

Could you add to the OP the IIHF tournament page and roster on Elite Prospects?


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## Siamese Dream

Alpine said:


> Korea??? They are already in Div 1 B,
> With no U-20 league in GB this is the group of players to watch.
> They are the ones moving up to EIHL and EPIHL. If anybody wants imports reduced in these leagues this group is where the prospects of Brits come from.
> IF and I mean IF.....a National Development Team like USA has could get set up playing a sked against NIHL/SNL teams like USNDT vs USHL?
> Somebody give Ice Hockey UK a kick in the arse




A U18 development program would not work in the UK. The USNTDP works because all the players are basically guaranteed a place at a D1 school. Whereas in the UK hockey is not really a realistic career path for most of these kids so there is not much incentive for them to move away from home to attend some development academy in Nottingham, at the same time giving up their education (high school not compulsory until 18 here). Those American kids are sorted because they will go to college, but British universities do not give out scholarships for ice hockey... This would also hold back some players, a U18 development team would probably have to compete at NIHL level, but top players like Lewis Hook are playing full time for EPIHL teams.

Similarly, a U20 development team would not work either unless you paid them to play (where is the money going to come from?) because players at this age are being paid to play in the EIHL or EPIHL, there is no incentive. It is completely different to Canada where you can't play pro until you are 20 unless it's the NHL. If we had a U20 league and you implemented a similar rule that forced players to play junior until they were 20 then that would massively hold most players back, as they are more than good enough to play in a senior league.


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## Alpine

Imaginary Threats said:


> Could you add to the OP the IIHF tournament page and roster on Elite Prospects?




Done...kinda


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## Siamese Dream

Here's the tournament page on Elite Prospects

http://www.eliteprospects.com/league_home.php?leagueid=309

I just find it to be better because you can click on all the players and see who they are and their stats.

Also there's some really good news, Premier Sports (British TV channel which shows NHL) will be broadcasting the Men's WC's in Budapest. So there will likely be a stream for you guys too. This is a massive step forward


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## Alpine

Imaginary Threats said:


> Here's the tournament page on Elite Prospects
> 
> http://www.eliteprospects.com/league_home.php?leagueid=309
> 
> I just find it to be better because you can click on all the players and see who they are and their stats




There's a handful of players in Ontario prep schools on the roster.


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## Siamese Dream

Cam Wynn scored his first EPIHL goal yesterday

really looking forward to this tournament

Edit: Here's a video


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## Call me Suds

did they give him a case of beer? lmao


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## Siamese Dream

Call me Suds said:


> did they give him a case of beer? lmao




Each team always gets a case of beer presented to their player of the match


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## Call me Suds

Imaginary Threats said:


> Each team always gets a case of beer presented to their player of the match




 too good because he's 17? Maybe 18


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## Siamese Dream

Call me Suds said:


> too good because he's 17? Maybe 18




He's 18


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## Call me Suds

Imaginary Threats said:


> He's 18




aww now it's irrelevant. Drinking age is 18 in England, right?


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## Siamese Dream

yes.


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## ficohok*

Can we use this topic as "official" for U18, or is it only for GB ? 

Croatian team played friendly game against Austrian team Villach (U19) and beat them 6:0. 

Croatian goalie, Vili Rosandic (1996.) could/should be first star of Croatia at WC. He is playing in Slovakian U18 extraleague and despite his team sucks, he have had solid 90.72% save in 35 games.


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## Alpine

CroHabitant said:


> Can we use this topic as "official" for U18, or is it only for GB ?
> 
> Croatian team played friendly game against Austrian team Villach (U19) and beat them 6:0.
> 
> Croatian goalie, Vili Rosandic (1996.) could/should be first star of Croatia at WC. He is playing in Slovakian U18 extraleague and despite his team sucks, he have had solid 90.72% save in 35 games.



\
Personally I welcome any input. Unfortunately I can't change the name of the thread.
But I'm sure any news or comments about other teams in the group will be appreciated


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## Siamese Dream

CroHabitant said:


> Can we use this topic as "official" for U18, or is it only for GB ?
> 
> Croatian team played friendly game against Austrian team Villach (U19) and beat them 6:0.
> 
> Croatian goalie, Vili Rosandic (1996.) could/should be first star of Croatia at WC. He is playing in Slovakian U18 extraleague and despite his team sucks, he have had solid 90.72% save in 35 games.




Yes you are welcome to post here 

GB U18 also played a warm up game against top NIHL side Solway Sharks last Thursday and won comfortably 6-2 outshooting them 40-17

Goal scorers:
Taylor (Betteridge)
Hook
Dacres (Whyte)
Hook (Cownie)
Wynn (Attwell)
Cownie


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## Kiraly

*Hungarian Roster*

Goaltenders
Arany Gergely 1996 MAC 
Daoda OlivÃ©r 1996 Botkyrka (SWE) 

Defensemen
GarÃ¡t Zsombor 1997 MAC 
Herner OlivÃ©r 1996 MAC 
Lakatos Levente 1996 MAC 
Pados LÃ¡szlÃ³ 1995 FehÃ©rvÃ¡r 
Stipsicz Bence 1997 MAC 
Szaller MÃ¡rk 1996 FehÃ©rvÃ¡r 
Vokla Roland 1996 FehÃ©rvÃ¡r 

Forwards 
ErdÃ©ly CsanÃ¡d 1996 FehÃ©rvÃ¡r 
Erőss ZoltÃ¡n 1995 Kiekko-Vantaa (FIN) 
GodÃ³ DÃ¡niel 1995 Miskolc 
Hamvai SzilÃ¡rd 1995 FehÃ©rvÃ¡r 
Kiss Zsombor 1997 SC Bern (SUI) 
Kocsis Ferenc 1995 FehÃ©rvÃ¡r 
LÃ¡day TamÃ¡s 1996 FehÃ©rvÃ¡r 
Reisz Ãron 1995 FehÃ©rvÃ¡r 
SchmÃ¡l KristÃ³f 1995 MAC 
SzabÃ³ DÃ¡niel 1995 FehÃ©rvÃ¡r 
SzabÃ³ KrisztiÃ¡n 1996 FehÃ©rvÃ¡r 
TÃ³th RichÃ¡rd 1995 MAC 
Vincze PÃ©ter 1995 FehÃ©rvÃ¡r

Few players missing from the lineup. Couple of injured players are not on the roster and a couple of players in Sweden are also missing - Norbert Hari is not alllowed to suit up for Hungary and Vilmos Gallo is not playing for unknown reasons. 

I don't see any exhibition games scheduled. Most likely reason is that Szekesfehervar is still playing in the EBYSL playoffs - game scheduled this Thursday - and there are many players form that team on the national team. I believe the team leaves for Estonia Friday morning.


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## Siamese Dream

First GB game is today at 18:00 GMT against Estonia


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## Alpine

Games are being live steamed..WATCH LIVE on IIHF tourney site
Croatia beat Romania 4-3 in a SO to start the tourney


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## Siamese Dream

I think Hungary will be the team to beat, a 1st or 2nd place finish prediction from me


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## Call me Suds

Alpine said:


> Games are being live steamed..WATCH LIVE on IIHF tourney site
> Croatia beat Romania 4-3 in a SO to start the tourney




They do that every tourney and there's never anything there 

are you actually seeing the stream right now? Don't tease a fella now


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## Alpine

Call me Suds said:


> They do that every tourney and there's never anything there
> 
> are you actually seeing the stream right now? Don't tease a fella now



Yes...
Lithuania and Hungary on right now.........
Gotta go eat some Easter ham soon but will will watch a bit.
The rink is a rink. Looks like any small town rink


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## ficohok*

Alpine said:


> Games are being live steamed..WATCH LIVE on IIHF tourney site
> *Croatia beat Romania 4-3 in a SO to start the tourney*




We should have won it in regulation, some stupid mistakes by our D. Goalie Rosandic was very very good, just as I predicted  Don't be suprise if he wins best goalie award. 

Don't know the strenght of Estonia, but as they came from D2 I assume they should be weaker than Romania.


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## Call me Suds

Alpine said:


> Yes...
> Lithuania and Hungary on right now.........
> Gotta go eat some Easter ham soon but will will watch a bit.
> *The rink is a rink.* Looks like any small town rink




 Sounds exciting!!!

I just went and clicked and it took me to justin.tv

I like it, I use to use justin.tv for tv shows all the time until my old laptop died. Can't wait for the game now that I know I can watch it


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## Call me Suds

lmao @ the creativity of the Estonia jerseys


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## Call me Suds

Every time Estonia skates the puck across the red line everyone starts cheering but all they've done so far is take shots from between the blueline to circles lol

Never notice the faceoff ability of the GB kids before this game. They seem to be standing upright and they hold their stick like they're going to shoot. 

2-0 lead in the first though. 
Goals by:
Chamberlain from Cownie and Hook
Hook from Betteridge

shots really lopsided at 18-7 for GB


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## Call me Suds

One of the GB coaches just got hit with the puck on the bench, didn't look like fun times at all


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## Call me Suds

2 more goals in the second so far. 

Chamberlain from Cownie & Hook
Attwell from Chamberlain & Cownie

that's 3 points for Chamerlain, Cownie, & Hook so far.

It's 4-2

2 PP goals for Estonia both on suspect calls. The officiating has been real suspect from the start tbh. I've seen an Estonian clearly body check a GB player as another Estonian was winding up for a shot by the boards. And a clear trip while Betteridge tried to take off for a 3 on 2.

I'm guessing the games in Estonia?


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## Call me Suds

Site started showing 4-3 for GB all of a sudden then a few seconds later on a pretty basic wrap around GB makes it 5-2 lol

Harry Harley from Betteridge


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## Call me Suds

Make it 6-2 GB

I looked at my phone for two seconds because the play looked pretty harmless and all of a sudden there's a goal lol musta been something silly. 

Attwell from Keeley


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## Call me Suds

Trying to figure out where this William Attwell kid plays. First time I've heard of him, he's tiny but has great hands and speed. All I know is he's at the school Connor McDavid attended but he's a year older and still there


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## Call me Suds

Lewis Hook just scored again. apple by Cownie


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## Shrimper

There's a stream for these games?


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## Call me Suds

Shrimper said:


> There's a stream for these games?




http://www.justin.tv/isplive#/w/5253853696/7


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## Siamese Dream

Missed this one as I was lining. Did Goss start in net?


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## Call me Suds

Imaginary Threats said:


> Missed this one as I was lining. Did Goss start in net?




He sure did. Didn't face many quality shots tbh I don't remember any of the goals against lol

It didn't even look like GB was trying their hardest but it may have been just a lack of energy


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## Call me Suds

Stats on EP are all up already as well. Early scoring lead obviously goes to GB's Cownie/Hook/Chamberlain with their 4 point night, all 3 are returnees lol


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## Siamese Dream

Call me Suds said:


> Stats on EP are all up already as well. Early scoring lead obviously goes to GB's Cownie/Hook/Chamberlain with their 4 point night, all 3 are returnees lol




And Hook will be back next year too!


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## Call me Suds

Imaginary Threats said:


> And Hook will be back next year too!




ye then the Sam Duggan era will begin


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## Call me Suds

Game in 15 minutes. Am I alone watching this again today?


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## Call me Suds

Well looks like I'm alone again 

1-1 after the 1st period.
Goal by Floyd Taylor assisted by Oliver Betteridge


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## Call me Suds

Twice now Hungarian players have turned their back to a GB player and dove head first into the boards to draw boarding penalties that resulted in PP goals.


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## Siamese Dream

I'm here now


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## Call me Suds

Imaginary Threats said:


> I'm here now




I left to eat n stuff. It was 5-2 figured I wouldn't miss much and it doesn't look like I did. Got pretty annoyed by the diving in the second.


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## Siamese Dream

IIHF games are always decided by the refs, GB are terrible penalty killers at every level


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## Call me Suds

Imaginary Threats said:


> IIHF games are always decided by the refs, GB are terrible penalty killers at every level




The PP has been pretty brutal in this one as well. You can tell they're U18 players because they seem to be totally against using the point lol The PP isn't much of an advantage if you only use 3 forwards down low. That's 3 vs 4, other team can stick 1 guy covering the D it's 3 on 3. 

That was just painful to watch. Was a close game until 2 dives gave them goal #2 & #3


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## Siamese Dream

What did Floyd Taylor even do to get a 5+game? I'm sure I was watching at the time  how did I miss that


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## Call me Suds

"Cross Checking" 

Didn't see it either.


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## ficohok*

Croatia 2:0 against Estonia after first period. SOG 33:3 for Croatia.


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## Siamese Dream

I'm curious why GB went with Gilfoyle to start this game


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## ficohok*

5:0 for Croatia at the end. 62:22 shots.

Should have been more if not for Estonian goalie.


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## Call me Suds

hmmmm I may have underestimated the competition or overestimated the talent on the U18 team. This seemed like one of the better U18 teams I've seen in a while or maybe it's just the one I've been most informed about?


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## Siamese Dream

Call me Suds said:


> hmmmm I may have underestimated the competition or overestimated the talent on the U18 team. This seemed like one of the better U18 teams I've seen in a while or maybe it's just the one I've been most informed about?




We certainly have a better team than last year, and the year before that. The 09/10 team was the first team to actually keep us in division 1 which was a lot harder to do in the old format, so I wouldn't say this year is better than that year. 

I think you've underestimated the competition, the new A/B format means every game is reasonably competitive and there is another tough team in the group, whereas in the past we were often the #1 seed in our group in Division 2. I really did not expect us to beat Hungary, they haven't been a Division 2 nation at U18 level since 07/08.


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## Call me Suds

Imaginary Threats said:


> We certainly have a better team than last year, and the year before that. The 09/10 team was the first team to actually keep us in division 1 which was a lot harder to do in the old format, so I wouldn't say this year is better than that year.
> 
> I think you've underestimated the competition, the new A/B format means every game is reasonably competitive and there is another tough team in the group, whereas in the past we were often the #1 seed in our group in Division 2. I really did not expect us to beat Hungary, they haven't been a Division 2 nation at U18 level since 07/08.




Well in fairness when I first saw this thread (if you look at my first post in here) I didn't see Hungary in the group. I guess EP wasn't fully updated when this thread first popped up lol

It's Lithuania, Croatia, Romania, Estonia I figured would be wins. Estonia was a relatively easy win there but Croatia beating them 5-0 confused me. Then all the other games being very close surprised me. I guess there's still 3 games left so I'll have to wait to see after those games if my assumptions were real dumb


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## Siamese Dream

Call me Suds said:


> Well in fairness when I first saw this thread (if you look at my first post in here) I didn't see Hungary in the group. I guess EP wasn't fully updated when this thread first popped up lol
> 
> It's Lithuania, Croatia, Romania, Estonia I figured would be wins. Estonia was a relatively easy win there but Croatia beating them 5-0 confused me. Then all the other games being very close surprised me. I guess there's still 3 games left so I'll have to wait to see after those games if my assumptions were real dumb




Croatia are a nation on the rise now with Medvescak Zagreb in the EBEL and a team in Austria U20 league. They might be a tough game, but I didn't watch their game against Estonia so maybe they went all out while we saved energy. Lithuania and Romania beat us last year, but we have improved the team, maybe they did too, I don't know.


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## ficohok*

Imaginary Threats said:


> Croatia are a nation on the rise now with Medvescak Zagreb in the EBEL and a team in Austria U20 league. They might be a tough game,* but I didn't watch their game against Estonia so maybe they went all out while we saved energy. *Lithuania and Romania beat us last year, but we have improved the team, maybe they did too, I don't know.




I watched the game, but it is hard to say whether we played at 100% or not, simply because we were so much better than Estonians. Of course, I still consider Gbr as favourite in our match last day of tournament. We lack depth, we have two very good lines, but third and fourth are rather young (three players born in 1997.) and have almost no experience in Austrian U20 league.


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## Siamese Dream

Halfway through 2nd period tied 1-1 with Lithuania


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## Siamese Dream

End 2nd and it's 2-2

The Hook - Cownie - Chamberlain line looks great


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## 3 Minute Minor

lololol at that penalty with 40 seconds left... The puck is lose, he swings at it and the goalie covers it - slashing

then GB scores hahahah


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## 3 Minute Minor

Hook/Cownie/Chamberlain cycle in the last 10 minutes was disgusting lol I missed the rest of the game cuz I slept in and forgot haha


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## 3 Minute Minor

Lithuanian kid throws the stick and hits a linesman woow


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## Siamese Dream

Wow what a finish! Harry Harley get's a shorthanded breakaway with 22 seconds left, Lithuania came centimetres away from tying it then with a wraparound which was stopped by Adam Goss' toe. The game was very heated at the end


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## Siamese Dream

Adam Tilander said:


> Hook/Cownie/Chamberlain cycle in the last 10 minutes was disgusting lol I missed the rest of the game cuz I slept in and forgot haha




disgusting in what way?


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## Alpine

A shorty for the w!


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## Alpine

Imaginary Threats said:


> disgusting in what way?



Dirty..sick..awesome


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## 3 Minute Minor

Imaginary Threats said:


> disgusting in what way?




Disgusting in the way that they worked the puck around with ease unlike the entire first two games. They still didn't use the points as much as I would like to see but still did great work. I believe they drew a penalty as well on one of the late cycle shows lol If they get stronger on the puck (making harder passes mainly) they'll be a great line in U20's for the next couple years.

Can't get over that Lithuanian throwing his stick and hitting the linesman


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## Shrimper

Good to see us putting some wins together. Not too outlandish to suggest we could still go up? Need Hungary to lose obviously.


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## ficohok*

In hard fought game Hungary won 2:1 against Croatia. Croats tied the game late in 3rd period, but one lucky goal scored by Huns secured victory for them. Hungary had more teritorial possesion, but our defense played well and many of 37 Hungarian shots were not dangeours. Croatia on other side, used all four lines through most of the game and given this fact result is even more suprising due to big qualitative difference between top and bottom two.


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## Siamese Dream

Romania beat Lithuania on Monday so that might be a tough game against them tomorrow


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## 3 Minute Minor

Hopefully I remember to wake up in time for the game tomorrow lol

Here's a link to the replay:

http://www.justin.tv/isplive/b/386010434

Play resulting in GB game winner starts at 24:30

Lithuanian hissy fit resulting in stick hitting ref at 25:58

You can skip ahead rather easily


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## 3 Minute Minor

Jordan Cownie (8GP 4G 11A 15PTS) is now 4 points shy of tying Ben Davies (10GP 7G 12A 19PTS) for all-time point lead with GB U18. He's also just 1 assist shy of tying Ben Davies for all-time assists lead with GB U18.


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## AlanHUK

I love the way this video was named


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## Siamese Dream

AlanHUK said:


> I love the way this video was named




 foreign people speaking English are great. I have a Slovenian friend and she always says stuff that we deliberately take out of context as euphemism or she says stuff which just sounds dirty such as her description of a creme egg "when you get inside I was expecting some cream" 

The announcer lady in the rink in Estonia has a very lovely accent too


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## 3 Minute Minor

AlanHUK said:


> I love the way this video was named




 best video name I've seen in a while!


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## Siamese Dream

Adam Tilander said:


> Jordan Cownie (8GP 4G 11A 15PTS) is now 4 points shy of tying Ben Davies (10GP 7G 12A 19PTS) for all-time point lead with GB U18. He's also just 1 assist shy of tying Ben Davies for all-time assists lead with GB U18.




What makes it even more impressive is that he's done that under the new format, while Ben Davies and co. played against hockey giants such as China and Serbia


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## 3 Minute Minor

Imaginary Threats said:


> What makes it even more impressive is that he's done that under the new format, while Ben Davies and co. played against hockey giants such as China and Serbia




Ye the point total record is going to be tough but still very much in reach. Should be interesting to watch. 



I keep forgetting to set my alarm for the game tomorrow lol gotta get on that right now


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## 3 Minute Minor

HA! I woke up in time 

I love how now there's a clock on their stream. It was real annoying the first couple games without one


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## Siamese Dream

Romanian goalie keeping them in it


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## 3 Minute Minor

That was a pretty nice goal by the Romanian. GB top line keeps cycling real well but they aren't creating many scoring chances. Or Maybe they are and I'm just missing it because of the constant freezing of the stream


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## 3 Minute Minor

Bobby Chamberlain ties it


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## 3 Minute Minor

These referees give me a headache. "Slashing" when a goalie covers it and you stand in front of him with your stick on the ice and a defender pushes your body into the goalie. "Tripping" when a player tries to jump around you and falls down like he got shot in the back. So silly


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## 3 Minute Minor

Interesting


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## Siamese Dream

Why did they cut the middle of the ice for the shootout? This isn't the NHL. They didn't even do it well, it looked like a Basingstoke ice cut


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## 3 Minute Minor

Shootout win.

No Cownie or Hook in the shootout seemed odd since it went 5 rounds. Goss didn't let in any shootout shots. Captain Floyd Taylor scored the only shootout goal


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## Siamese Dream

So now we need Hungary to lose both of their remaining games in order to get promoted as well as win our last game


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## 3 Minute Minor

Imaginary Threats said:


> So now we need Hungary to lose both of their remaining games in order to get promoted as well as win our last game




ye they fixed this tournament by making it more competitive but the tournament is still broken. It's all but decided by day 2 who's getting promoted... 

Odds of Hungary losing to Estonia?  you could bet a dollar and win a million if Estonia pulled off the upset


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## 3 Minute Minor

btw Lithuanian kid who chucked his stick at the official after the loss to GB, played today and got 6 minutes of penalties... I'm shocked he wasn't banned for life seeing as this is international hockey after all lol


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## J17 Vs Proclamation

Adam Tilander said:


> ye they fixed this tournament by making it more competitive but the tournament is still broken. It's all but decided by day 2 who's getting promoted...
> 
> Odds of Hungary losing to Estonia?  you could bet a dollar and win a million if Estonia pulled off the upset




How is it broken? Outside of the fact it isn't decided by day 2 since all the games aren't played by that date, there will always be a couple of teams at these levels clearly higher than the rest.

No suprise to see Hungary dominate this event. Comfortably the best nation from top to bottom at international events.


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## 3 Minute Minor

J17 Vs Proclamation said:


> How is it broken? Outside of the fact it isn't decided by day 2 since all the games aren't played by that date, there will always be a couple of teams at these levels clearly higher than the rest.
> 
> No suprise to see Hungary dominate this event. Comfortably the best nation from top to bottom at international events.




What's the point of a round robin if there's nothing afterwards? If you lose 1 game in the round robin you're done.


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## Siamese Dream

Adam Tilander said:


> What's the point of a round robin if there's nothing afterwards? If you lose 1 game in the round robin you're done.




Because this isn't the top division, why would the IIHF want to spend more money on the lower divisions by having more games?


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## J17 Vs Proclamation

Adam Tilander said:


> What's the point of a round robin if there's nothing afterwards? If you lose 1 game in the round robin you're done.




There are 6 teams in a division. All these teams play each other. I cannot think how this isn't fair. Infact, it derides in theoretically the fairest possible outcome.

There are a variety of obvious reasons why the top division has a knock-out phase. Since all teams cannot meet in a single league format because of the division size, it is not fair to conclude a winner from the format employed at lower levels, since not all teams actually meet. Hence, a knock-out procedure following the league format is a neccessity. 

It is infeasible to make the top division a a league format only due to the amount of teams and scheduling issues. The players participating are also presumably important players in leagues and clubs with important political clout in the international political world of hockey. The top division is also a media spectacle, since the nations competing are presumably nations with greater hockey interest than in the tiers below. 

Presumably, you're comments derive from the angle that Britain lost a game early on. All teams in this format have a balanced and equal opportunity of progressing/regressing. If you wish to say luck can shape results since the margins are small (because the best teams, usually somewhat clear of the bottom teams, only meet once) that can be countered by saying luck and random chance can also influence the result if extra games against one another are played. Who is to say that result is also "fair"? I dare say this wouldn't be a discussion if results had gone a certain way.

The only legitimate angle of complaint you could concieve here is that the tournament may be less exciting since it isn't always dictated by a final winner takes all game (Unless two undefeated teams meet at the end). From a consumption point, i understand this (though consumption isn't really all that important here given how low the division is and it's obscurity). It is however, unequivocally fair, and not broken.


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## Siamese Dream

One of those rare occasions where I actually agree with J17 vs proclamation

If Hungary win all 5 of their games, they deserve to go up, I don't see how that isn't fair

And regarding the excitement point, the IIHF do actually try to schedule it so the top 2 seeds meet each other on the final day. GB finished 4th last year so are not one of the top 2 seeds.


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## 3 Minute Minor

Not gunna lie, I'm not sitting here and reading that entire post by J17. I can assume based off previous posts that it could have been summed up in 2 sentences but he feels the need to go on and on all the time lol

It's not much of a tournament, U18 or U20, if the tournament winning game could potentially be a 4-0 team vs. a 0-4 team. I would have rathered if Div 1 & Div 2 did the same as the top division, actually have a gold & bronze medal game & a relegation playoff. 

You can say "well this isn't the top division and the quality of the teams differs greatly" but it's no different in the top division. An example would be the U20 top division this year. Germany & Latvia were destroyed and there's usually 2-3 teams completely out of contention going into the tournament. Latvia - 6GF 21GA & Germany - 4GF 26GA. They got the **** kicked out of them in the round robin but went to the relegation round with Slovakia/Finland and Latvia ended up the only team to get relegated. Canada went 4-0 in the round robin and ended up finishing 4th, they sure as hell didn't deserve a gold medal for their round robin play only. USA won the gold medal with a round robin record of 2-2. You find the best teams when they win when they're in do-or-die elimination games.


----------



## Siamese Dream

If you're gonna ignore what I said I will say it again. These tournaments are all funded by the IIHF, they pay the arenas for the ice time and all that stuff. Why would they want to waste money on the lower division who nobody really cares about?

It isn't broken, much more often than not the best team does get promoted. Hungary are a better team than us this year, they deserve to go up. The IIHF always schedules the #1 seed to play the #2 seed on the final day to add the excitement, so usually the only way it is decided early is if one of them is upset by another country in an earlier game. GB were weaker last year so it is unfortunate we did not get to play Hungary on the final day, but that is our fault for not being better last year.

One could also argue that because of this system every game is do or die just like the playoffs in the top division? Every game matters, one slip up and that's it. I would much rather have a system where every game means something.


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## 3 Minute Minor

Imaginary Threats said:


> If you're gonna ignore what I said I will say it again. These tournaments are all funded by the IIHF, they pay the arenas for the ice time and all that stuff. Why would they want to waste money on the lower division who nobody really cares about?
> 
> It isn't broken, much more often than not the best team does get promoted. Hungary are a better team than us this year, they deserve to go up. The IIHF always schedules the #1 seed to play the #2 seed on the final day to add the excitement, so usually the only way it is decided early is if one of them is upset by another country in an earlier game. GB were weaker last year so it is unfortunate we did not get to play Hungary on the final day, but that is our fault for not being better last year.
> 
> One could also argue that because of this system every game is do or die just like the playoffs in the top division? Every game matters, one slip up and that's it. I would much rather have a system where every game means something.




But that's the thing, not every game means something. Hungary beat Estonia 9-3 meaning they've already won the tournament. That's 3 game tomorrow with 0 meaning lol Croatia vs Lithuania meant nothing today as well. 

The money part is meh to me. They (IIHF) make amazing amounts of money, they can afford to get all the division 2 teams in 1 location (they usually do 2 locations) and add on 10 more MEANINGFUL games, it's not that many, that's 5 extra games for each group in Division 1 & 2. Their funds aren't that tight when they sell 20K tickets for 1 U20 game in Canada lol


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## Siamese Dream

Adam Tilander said:


> But that's the thing, not every game means something. Hungary beat Estonia 9-3 meaning they've already won the tournament. That's 3 game tomorrow with 0 meaning lol Croatia vs Lithuania meant nothing today as well.
> 
> The money part is meh to me. They (IIHF) make amazing amounts of money, they can afford to get all the division 2 teams in 1 location (they usually do 2 locations) and add on 10 more MEANINGFUL games, it's not that many, that's 5 extra games for each group in Division 1 & 2. Their funds aren't that tight when they sell 20K tickets for 1 U20 game in Canada lol




But that is our fault, if we were better last year we would be playing them Saturday. We messed up the seeding by being bad last year. Not every game in the top pool means something either. The Lithuania v Estonia game tomorrow means something, leaving 2 games out of the entire tournament that don't mean anything, big woop.

Maybe the IIHF think your argument for more games is "meh" and the cost wouldn't justify the benefit.

Yeah you're pissed GB didn't win the group, but get it over it, nobody else is complaining. I accept we weren't the best team, I'm not going to scrape the barrel to find excuses and nitpick the system


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## 3 Minute Minor

Imaginary Threats said:


> But that is our fault, if we were better last year we would be playing them Saturday. We messed up the seeding by being bad last year.
> 
> Maybe the IIHF think your argument for more games is "meh" and the cost wouldn't justify the benefit.
> 
> Yeah you're pissed GB didn't win the group, but get it over it, nobody else is complaining. I accept we weren't the best team, I'm not going to scrape the barrel to find excuses and nitpick the system




It's not your fault, you didn't play  Same can be said about most of the players on GB actually

The IIHF says & does a lot of stupid things as well, you can't deny that 

And no, I'm actually not pissed GB didn't win the group. I'm just glad I was able to GB games for once. All I said was that it's nice that the groups are now more competitive but the setup is still broken. I never liked the fact that the lower divisions don't have medal games. Doesn't matter if it's Division 1 Group A, Division 9 Group Z, I don't like that system. It's not much of a tournament if it's just a round robin. There isn't those meaningful games at the end that people would like to see.


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## Siamese Dream

Adam Tilander said:


> It's not your fault, you didn't play  *Same can be said about most of the players on GB actually*
> 
> The IIHF says & does a lot of stupid things as well, you can't deny that
> 
> And no, I'm actually not pissed GB didn't win the group. I'm just glad I was able to GB games for once. All I said was that it's nice that the groups are now more competitive but the setup is still broken. I never liked the fact that the lower divisions don't have medal games. Doesn't matter if it's Division 1 Group A, Division 9 Group Z, I don't like that system. It's not much of a tournament if it's just a round robin. There isn't those meaningful games at the end *that people would like to see*.




Don't know what that's supposed to mean, looking at the faceoff stats all 4 lines were played. 

Well you're alone there, barely any people from top tier nations actually care about or follow the lower tier tournaments. The people from lower tier countries are just perfectly happy to support our nation and cheer the lads on as a lot of us have close strong connections with the players. Obviously it is less exciting for you as an outside observer. As I said, the IIHF aren't going to care enough about what could make lower tier tournaments more exciting for the very tiny amount of outside viewers to justify spending more money on them. And they are right.


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## 3 Minute Minor

Imaginary Threats said:


> Don't know what that's supposed to mean, looking at the faceoff stats all 4 lines were played.
> 
> Well you're alone there, barely any people from top tier nations actually care about or follow the lower tier tournaments. The people from lower tier countries are just perfectly happy to support our nation and cheer the lads on as a lot of us have close strong connections with the players. Obviously it is less exciting for you as an outside observer. As I said, the IIHF aren't going to care enough about what could make lower tier tournaments more exciting for the very tiny amount of outside viewers to justify spending more money on them.




I have no idea why you bring up faceoff stats after what I said 

All I said was that without medal games to end the tournament, there isn't meaningful games that might draw bigger audiences. Can't tell me that ticket sales don't go up when promoting a gold medal game > a round robin game in a tournament that has already been decided, no matter how small the increase.

We all knew when GB was beat by Hungary that this tournament was decided already. I still watched the games because I wanted to watch GB hockey, I donno why you're trying to act like I don't care about GB hockey due to my nationality lol I post in the GB section all the time and constantly show interest/support for GB prospects/players.

Donno why we're still talking about this tbh, all I said is that I don't like this system and I'd like to see medal games aka meaningful games at the end of the tournament because with the current system we know who won well before the tournament is over. Regardless of what you guys say, to me that's still a fact.


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## Siamese Dream

Adam Tilander said:


> I have no idea why you bring up faceoff stats after what I said
> 
> All I said was that without medal games to end the tournament, there isn't meaningful games that might draw bigger audiences. Can't tell me that ticket sales don't go up when promoting a gold medal game > a round robin game in a tournament that has already been decided, no matter how small the increase.
> 
> We all knew when GB was beat by Hungary that this tournament was decided already. I still watched the games because I wanted to watch GB hockey, I donno why you're trying to act like I don't care about GB hockey due to my nationality lol I post in the GB section all the time and constantly show interest/support for GB prospects/players.
> 
> Donno why we're still talking about this tbh, all I said is that I don't like this system and I'd like to see medal games aka meaningful games at the end of the tournament because with the current system we know who won well before the tournament is over. Regardless of what you guys say, to me that's still a fact.




You said "you didn't play, same can be said about most players on GB actually" implying GB play 2 line hockey.

Lower tier tournaments won't draw in bigger audiences regardless of the system. Unless someone has a connection to one country why would they care at all? I watch the top tier WC's because it is good standard hockey, if I was from a top tier nation I would not watch lower tier nations I had no connection to because it is bad standard hockey. Outside viewers do not think "oh no there's no gold medal game I'm not going to watch now" because they won't care in the first place. 

Yes we did, but I don't think anyone else actually cares. I will still watch the game on Saturday, because I know half of the players and I want to see my nations' hockey federation win games. That is the mindset of every other British hockey fan as it such a closely knit community. 

You're pushing your luck a bit, you say you're happy you finally get to watch a stream but now you've got that you're complaining it isn't exciting enough for you?

Anyway this doesn't happen very often, as I said the seedings were messed up because we were poor last year. MOST OF THE TIME the tournament winner IS decided on the final day.


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## 3 Minute Minor

Imaginary Threats said:


> You said "you didn't play, same can be said about most players on GB actually" implying GB play 2 line hockey.
> 
> Lower tier tournaments won't draw in bigger audiences regardless of the system. Unless someone has a connection to one country why would they care at all? I watch the top tier WC's because it is good standard hockey, if I was from a top tier nation I would not watch lower tier nations I had no connection to because it is bad standard hockey. Outside viewers do not think "oh no there's no gold medal game I'm not going to watch now" because they won't care in the first place.
> 
> Yes we did, but I don't think anyone else actually cares. I will still watch the game on Saturday, because I know half of the players and I want to see my nations' hockey federation win games. That is the mindset of every other British hockey fan as it such a closely knit community.
> 
> You're pushing your luck a bit, you say you're happy you finally get to watch a stream but now you've got that you're complaining it isn't exciting enough for you?
> 
> Anyway this doesn't happen very often, as I said the seedings were messed up because we were poor last year. MOST OF THE TIME the tournament winner IS decided on the final day.




Well no, you said "it's our fault we didn't do better last year" and neither you or the majority of this years team didn't play last year... Reading too far into it.

This is the first year the U18 tournament was broadcast on the interwebs. I'm talking about selling people on going to the actual rink, not getting people to tune into a free live feed online lol

I'm not saying it's not exciting enough for me and I'm still going to be watching the final game and frankly I'm starting to get a bit insulted. You're making ridiculous assumptions now. That's wonderful for you, that you're in this tight knit community and you guys don't care about anything but watching these guys play in a meaningless (tournament wise, yes it is) game but we constantly talk in these threads about growing the sport. Don't you think it would be beneficial to be getting people to tune into a GB gold medal game, regardless of the division or age group (U18, U20, Senior)? It's likely a lot more attention grabbing then "Hey come watch a live stream of the GB U18 team play a round robin game against Estonia!" I know that's good enough for you, that's good enough for me, but that's not going to grow awareness of the sport in GB. It's no different in the host country. People are more likely to attend a game with meaning, rather then just another round robin game that may or may not mean anything. You're thinking about this as a fan like yourself who doesn't care about anything like GB but you have to think about the casual fans as well.


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## J17 Vs Proclamation

Adam Tilander said:


> Not gunna lie, I'm not sitting here and reading that entire post by J17. I can assume based off previous posts that it could have been summed up in 2 sentences but he feels the need to go on and on all the time lol




So you'd rather plead ignorance and live in your own little head than debate a point/conversation you started. Ok.



Adam Tilander said:


> It's not much of a tournament, U18 or U20, if the tournament winning game could potentially be a 4-0 team vs. a 0-4 team. I would have rathered if Div 1 & Div 2 did the same as the top division, actually have a gold & bronze medal game & a relegation playoff.




So should the premier league artificially manufacture a league decider on the final game simply because you, the consumer, want to feel more excited? 

It's a tournament that decides who is promoted and relegated, by the fairest process possible. If you don't like it, don't watch it, but don't complain about something you seem to fundamentally fail to understand.



Adam Tilander said:


> You can say "well this isn't the top division and the quality of the teams differs greatly" but it's no different in the top division. An example would be the U20 top division this year. Germany & Latvia were destroyed and there's usually 2-3 teams completely out of contention going into the tournament. Latvia - 6GF 21GA & Germany - 4GF 26GA. They got the **** kicked out of them in the round robin but went to the relegation round with Slovakia/Finland and Latvia ended up the only team to get relegated. Canada went 4-0 in the round robin and ended up finishing 4th, they sure as hell didn't deserve a gold medal for their round robin play only. USA won the gold medal with a round robin record of 2-2. You find the best teams when they win when they're in do-or-die elimination games.




You can't have a league format in the elite division because of scheduling/number of teams/TV. The teams in the elite are also closer together.

What that event shows is that Top 4 can beat each other on any given day. Luck is an important factor. If that tournament were played 6 or 7 times this year, the USA would not win a high % of it.


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## J17 Vs Proclamation

Adam Tilander said:


> All I said was that without medal games to end the tournament, *there isn't meaningful games* that might draw bigger audiences. Can't tell me that ticket sales don't go up when promoting a gold medal game > a round robin game in a tournament that has already been decided, no matter how small the increase.




I can't think of a way not to format an opening statement that is condescending towards you. Hmmmm.

All games are meaningful, since if a team loses any particular game, it affects its chances of promotion/relegation. 

Ticket sales aren't a factor. We're talking about a tier 4 U-18 Junior hockey tournament. You realise this?


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## 3 Minute Minor

J17 Vs Proclamation said:


> I can't think of a way not to format an opening statement that is condescending towards you. Hmmmm.




The reason I don't respond to you is because you're a condescending *********  so feel free to say whatever you want and make it as condescending as possible. I won't be having a conversation with you about any topic in any part of this site, I have no respect for you (haven't had respect for you for a long time now) so it's better to just avoid it completely.


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## Siamese Dream

Adam Tilander said:


> Well no, you said "it's our fault we didn't do better last year" and neither you or the majority of this years team didn't play last year... Reading too far into it.
> 
> This is the first year the U18 tournament was broadcast on the interwebs. I'm talking about selling people on going to the actual rink, not getting people to tune into a free live feed online lol
> 
> I'm not saying it's not exciting enough for me and I'm still going to be watching the final game and frankly I'm starting to get a bit insulted. You're making ridiculous assumptions now. That's wonderful for you, that you're in this tight knit community and you guys don't care about anything but watching these guys play in a meaningless (tournament wise, yes it is) game but we constantly talk in these threads about growing the sport. Don't you think it would be beneficial to be getting people to tune into a GB gold medal game, regardless of the division or age group (U18, U20, Senior)? It's likely a lot more attention grabbing then "Hey come watch a live stream of the GB U18 team play a round robin game against Estonia!" I know that's good enough for you, that's good enough for me, but that's not going to grow awareness of the sport in GB. It's no different in the host country. People are more likely to attend a game with meaning, rather then just another round robin game that may or may not mean anything. You're thinking about this as a fan like yourself who doesn't care about anything like GB but you have to think about the casual fans as well.




"We" being the national federation as a whole for not producing better players. 

I see your point about growing the game but at junior level it really isn't an issue because hardly anyone in this country watches or cares about England U21 football so casual non- hockey fans certainly aren't going to be interested in GB U18 or U20 hockey. We simply do not have the Junior hockey culture of Canada or College sports culture of the USA. But at senior level yes, you have a point.


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## 3 Minute Minor

Imaginary Threats said:


> "We" being the national federation as a whole for not producing better players.
> 
> I see your point about growing the game but at junior level it really isn't an issue because hardly anyone watches or cares about England U21 football so casual non- hockey fans certainly aren't going to be interested in GB U18 or U20 hockey. But at senior level yes, you have a point.




If you can believe it, U20 hockey in Canada use to be completely irrelevant here as well 

These days, you can get that link on twitter and in front of anyone. Anyone could see a tweet saying "Great Britain ____ hockey Team currently playing in the gold medal game" and it can create fans out of anyone. It's a stepping stone.

Especially after the amount of attention the GB Senior team received during the Olympic Qualifiers, mostly through the live stream link circulating twitter. It may seem small and insignificant but progress & awareness is progress & awareness.


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## J17 Vs Proclamation

Adam Thilander, it's clear you don't really understand European junior sports culture and it's finances. 

The event in discussion is a completely fair process. All teams play all teams and it promotion often requires a perfect record. Uusally the seedings work so that the final games are deciders, but in this case, they wern't. Big deal. Doesn't change anything. Hungary deserved promotion, and they still played and beat the UK.


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## Shrimper

Wait. These games are streamed?!

If the last game is then I'll watch that.


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## 3 Minute Minor

Shrimper said:


> Wait. These games are streamed?!
> 
> If the last game is then I'll watch that.




Didn't you ask this a few days ago 

when you're on the IIHF site and you click "Watch Live?" maybe now not live? it takes you to a justin.tv channel that's been streaming them. 


I hope they do this for the U20s as well. It's about time that they take advantage of some technologies and get these games out there!


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## 3 Minute Minor

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH they just showed the stick throwing from the GB/Lithuania game on Sportsnet intermission for the Leafs/Flyers game lmao I was not expecting that!

One of the guys on the panel praised the way GB plays hockey as well!


----------



## Alpine

Adam Tilander said:


> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH they just showed the stick throwing from the GB/Lithuania game on Sportsnet intermission for the Leafs/Flyers game lmao I was not expecting that!
> 
> One of the guys on the panel praised the way GB plays hockey as well!



TSN Sport Centre also showed the clip.
There's one meaningful game on Sat.
Lithuania v Estonia to see which get demoted.
Have to agree a Championship game and a Bronze game would add something to the tourney.
Tomorrow's games are mostly moot...just playing it out sorta thing.


----------



## Siamese Dream

The stick throwing made it's way onto the yahoo news page

as always, they blew it way out of proportion 

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs...e-hockey-star-throws-stick-ref-160818518.html


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## 3 Minute Minor

Imaginary Threats said:


> The stick throwing made it's way onto the yahoo news page
> 
> as always, they blew it way out of proportion
> 
> http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs...e-hockey-star-throws-stick-ref-160818518.html




Ye I saw a Canadian version of the article last night 

Talking life-time ban bahahaha funny part is none of them have notice he played Lithuania's last game


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## Shrimper

Being honest, it didn't look like he did it deliberately. Was damn good accuracy wise if he was. Hoping win the final game today as a good end to the tournament.


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## Siamese Dream

Adam Tilander said:


> Ye I saw a Canadian version of the article last night
> 
> Talking life-time ban bahahaha funny part is none of them have notice he played Lithuania's last game




Terrible journalism 

"I think they have clinched promotion" and it's division 2A not 1B


----------



## ficohok*

GBR needs only one point against Croatia to secure 2nd place.


----------



## 3 Minute Minor

OHL Draft is going right now so I'm distracted. I just looked at a pick as GB scored ffs

Hook from Chamerlain/Wallace isn't surprising though


----------



## 3 Minute Minor

Cownie just had his second assist on that 3rd goal, giving him 7 on the tournament, 13 all-time, meaning #1 for GB all-time (according to EP)


----------



## ficohok*

Croatia won 5:3 and they took home silver. Unbelieveable result for Croatian team. And 15 players can play next year as well at U18.


----------



## Shrimper

Bit disappointing to come 4th after being top two for the majority (I think?) but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Was a very tight group and it could've gone either way.


----------



## Siamese Dream

Next year should be better, 6 returning players including some of the better ones (Hook, Betteridge, Attwell) plus some good new guys who didn't quite make the cut will contribute next year

Good to see Cam Wynn get a goal in the last game also, he played in a couple of games for my team this year


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## 3 Minute Minor

Imaginary Threats said:


> Next year should be better, 6 returning players including some of the better ones (Hook, Betteridge, Attwell) plus some good new guys who didn't quite make the cut will contribute next year
> 
> Good to see Cam Wynn get a goal in the last game also, he played in a couple of games for my team this year




Think they'll take Sam Duggan or wait another year?


----------



## Siamese Dream

Adam Tilander said:


> Think they'll take Sam Duggan or wait another year?




Probably, Lewis Hook played when he was still U16, I think Duggan is just as good.


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## 3 Minute Minor

Bobby Chamerblain ended up with just as many points as Cownie, both tied with Tom Carlon for 2nd all time with 17 U18 GB points. Cownie has the most assists all-time now. All according to EP, I still donno how accurate those all-time numbers are lol

Also Floyd Taylor with the most PIMs all time lmfao


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## Siamese Dream

Adam Tilander said:


> Bobby Chamerblain ended up with just as many points as Cownie, both tied with Tom Carlon for 2nd all time with 17 U18 GB points. Cownie has the most assists all-time now. All according to EP, I still donno how accurate those all-time numbers are lol
> 
> Also Floyd Taylor with the most PIMs all time lmfao




Floyd always played with an edge to go along with his talent, but prone to taking silly penalties from time to time as we've seen, certainly not a soft player despite his size. He hasn't scored many points in the EPIHL this season but he has adjusted well to the senior level game, always finishes hits and plays responsible defensively, makes smart plays with the puck. That's all you should expect from young players at that level, as they usually don't have the hands or shooting ability to beat the goalies.


----------

