# Future Markets Discussion



## My Cozen Dylan

I'd like to hear from people on here where the next AHL or ECHL teams should go.

Are there any markets that had teams in the past that may work out? Richmond, maybe New Orleans?


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## Panic at the Back

Issue for New Orleans is the rent at the Smoothie King Center. If they could play at Lakefront Arena (and I think they could), the rent is probably much lower. 

I think Chattanooga could be a good spot for an ECHL team as well. 

Heck, I'd love to see Huntsville in the ECHL - the Southern Hockey League just doesn't have it.


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## Peter6625

A Bruins affiliate in Worcester is a no brainer. The guy who owns the Providence Bruins, also own the New England Sports Center right down the street from Worcester in Marlborough, MA. Dress them in black and gold, throw a Bruins logo on them and they will pack the house.


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## Panic at the Back

Peter6625 said:


> A Bruins affiliate in Worcester is a no brainer. The guy who owns the Providence Bruins, also own the New England Sports Center right down the street from Worcester in Marlborough, MA. Dress them in black and gold, throw a Bruins logo on them and they will pack the house.





Yeah, that just makes sense.


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## CrazyEddie20

jawallstar1 said:


> I'd like to hear from people on here where the next AHL or ECHL teams should go.
> 
> Are there any markets that had teams in the past that may work out? Richmond, maybe New Orleans?




The Richmond Coliseum has been falling apart for the last 20 years. But maybe it has one last run left in it...

A membership in New Orleans would run into serious travel cost issues if they didn't have the revenue to match. Additionally, the Pelicans will not allow a hockey team in the Smoothie King Center as long as they are there - it's in their lease. Lakefront Arena at UNO can't fit a rink.

Chattanooga has no suitable building and is thus a non-starter.

Huntsville is in the SPHL for the foreseeable future, because Keith Jeffries, their owner, is the puppeteer pulling Jim Combs' strings.

Worcester needs a few years to air out after the Sharks leave.


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## JackJ

Echl in Toronto (Ricoh Coliseum) - Leafs affiliate

Surprised it hasn't happened already given the lack of events scheduled when the marlies aren't playing.


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## Panic at the Back

CrazyEddie20 said:


> The Richmond Coliseum has been falling apart for the last 20 years. But maybe it has one last run left in it...
> 
> A membership in New Orleans would run into serious travel cost issues if they didn't have the revenue to match. Additionally, the Pelicans will not allow a hockey team in the Smoothie King Center as long as they are there - it's in their lease. Lakefront Arena at UNO can't fit a rink.
> 
> Chattanooga has no suitable building and is thus a non-starter.
> 
> Huntsville is in the SPHL for the foreseeable future, because Keith Jeffries, their owner, is the puppeteer pulling Jim Combs' strings.
> 
> Worcester needs a few years to air out after the Sharks leave.




Yeah, NOLA would be hopeful.

Chatty - interesting. Seems that town is booming thanks to VW.

Huntsville - yeah, more hopeful than actual for me.


So where would you want to put teams?


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## CrazyEddie20

Panic at the Back;108220247
So where would you want to put teams?[/QUOTE said:


> I really don't care, so long as the memberships are well-capitalized, are in a decent arena, and have competent management. I've worked for teams that were all of those things, and I've worked for teams that were none of those things.
> 
> It's pretty silly to speculate or fantasize about what cities are going to "get teams." The reality is that teams need an owner to pony up the money for the league membership, sign a lease, buy the gear, and market the team long before the team even thinks about stepping on the ice for the first time. If there's an owner talking in the media about buying a membership in a league, a city is probably going to end up with a team. If there's not, it's really just idle speculation.
> 
> I'd love to see lots of cities have minor league teams. I'd love to see teams across the country draw 5,000 a night. But without sufficient capital, without a good building, and without talented management, teams don't have a chance to do that.


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## Disengage

JackJ said:


> Echl in Toronto (Ricoh Coliseum) - Leafs affiliate
> 
> Surprised it hasn't happened already given the lack of events scheduled when the marlies aren't playing.




Yeah, no. Don't see that one happening. It would just cannibalize the Marlies' ticket sales.


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## Panic at the Back

CrazyEddie20 said:


> I really don't care, so long as the memberships are well-capitalized, are in a decent arena, and have competent management. I've worked for teams that were all of those things, and I've worked for teams that were none of those things.
> 
> It's pretty silly to speculate or fantasize about what cities are going to "get teams." The reality is that teams need an owner to pony up the money for the league membership, sign a lease, buy the gear, and market the team long before the team even thinks about stepping on the ice for the first time. If there's an owner talking in the media about buying a membership in a league, a city is probably going to end up with a team. If there's not, it's really just idle speculation.
> 
> I'd love to see lots of cities have minor league teams. I'd love to see teams across the country draw 5,000 a night. But without sufficient capital, without a good building, and without talented management, teams don't have a chance to do that.





I understand what you are saying, same for me with soccer. I've worked in soccer for 20+ years, and it is the same story. 

Setting aside all the necessary requirements, where do you think hockey "Could*" be successful. (* - having great ownership, great management, arena lease, etc).

I'll still with Chattanooga.

I'd still love to see Huntsville in the ECHL as opposed to SHL. When New Orleans had a team, I enjoyed the ECHL, not as much as NHL or AHL.


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## CrazyEddie20

Panic at the Back said:


> I understand what you are saying, same for me with soccer. I've worked in soccer for 20+ years, and it is the same story.
> 
> Setting aside all the necessary requirements, where do you think hockey "Could*" be successful. (* - having great ownership, great management, arena lease, etc).
> 
> I'll still with Chattanooga.
> 
> I'd still love to see Huntsville in the ECHL as opposed to SHL. When New Orleans had a team, I enjoyed the ECHL, not as much as NHL or AHL.




Huntsville is a non-starter in the ECHL. The arena is complete dump, and you'd need to give the Huntsville hockey culture an enema to get Keith Jeffries out of there. 

Any ownership group and arena manager with a suitable building in almost any market that work together to do things the right way could be successful. Naming cities is just a masturbatory exercise in wishful thinking.


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## JungleJON

I would wait until at least January to see if Vancouver is going to look out west for a new location for their AHL team, as well as Phoenix. Plus if the NHL admits both Quebec and Las Vegas into the league you will need to have two more AHL affiliates one in the East and one in the West.

So a lot can happen without even having to worry about new locations or rehashing old locations once again.


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## Panic at the Back

CrazyEddie20 said:


> Huntsville is a non-starter in the ECHL. The arena is complete dump, and you'd need to give the Huntsville hockey culture an enema to get Keith Jeffries out of there.
> 
> Any ownership group and arena manager with a suitable building in almost any market that work together to do things the right way could be successful. Naming cities is just a masturbatory exercise in wishful thinking.




Be Crazy Eddie.



Sorry, it had to be done.

Okay, I give you all the money you need to form a team in the ECHL - you hire the management, the arena is ready to go. Everything is set - you just need to pick the city- what city do you pick?


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## Woo Hockey

Peter6625 said:


> A Bruins affiliate in Worcester is a no brainer. The guy who owns the Providence Bruins, also own the New England Sports Center right down the street from Worcester in Marlborough, MA. Dress them in black and gold, throw a Bruins logo on them and they will pack the house.



^

https://www.facebook.com/Save-Worcester-Hockey-1379287455716117

If anyone wants to keep up with this, I've started this with someone else on here.


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## CrazyEddie20

Panic at the Back said:


> Be Crazy Eddie.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, it had to be done.
> 
> Okay, I give you all the money you need to form a team in the ECHL - you hire the management, the arena is ready to go. Everything is set - you just need to pick the city- what city do you pick?




Knowing what I know about the business of hockey, I do the following:

I invite five different empty arenas in five different cities to give me lease offers.

After reviewing the offers, I meet with accounting and legal professionals to decide how to proceed.

The accounting and legal professionals tell me there's no way any of those offers, without free arena rent and 100% of the concession money, will break even, much less make money.

Since your money has been gifted to me without conditions attached in the facts you described, I thank you for your contribution to Crazy Eddie, Inc. and buy houses in Key West, Aspen, and Nantucket, all of which unlike a minor league hockey team will at minimum hold, if not appreciate, in value.


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## Panic at the Back

CrazyEddie20 said:


> Knowing what I know about the business of hockey, I do the following:
> 
> I invite five different empty arenas in five different cities to give me lease offers.
> 
> After reviewing the offers, I meet with accounting and legal professionals to decide how to proceed.
> 
> The accounting and legal professionals tell me there's no way any of those offers, without free arena rent and 100% of the concession money, will break even, much less make money.
> 
> Since your money has been gifted to me without conditions attached in the facts you described, I thank you for your contribution to Crazy Eddie, Inc. and buy houses in Key West, Aspen, and Nantucket, all of which unlike a minor league hockey team will at minimum hold, if not appreciate, in value.




You only get the money if you take the ice with your new ECHL team. 

You just won't play will you


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## CrazyEddie20

I really can't put my finger on a market where I'd even want to try.

There's an old joke among front office people.

Q: How do you end up with a million dollars in minor league hockey?

A: Start with 10 million.


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## Panic at the Back

CrazyEddie20 said:


> I really can't put my finger on a market where I'd even want to try.
> 
> There's an old joke among front office people.
> 
> Q: How do you end up with a million dollars in minor league hockey?
> 
> A: Start with 10 million.




Same joke for soccer... that's why I enjoy hockey. The business wears you down.


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## CrazyEddie20

Panic at the Back said:


> Same joke for soccer... that's why I enjoy hockey. The business wears you down.




The next pro soccer team in North America to make money will be the first. MLS is a ponzi scheme and I'm not sure how the NASL and USL manage to stay alive, but that's not for this forum.


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## Predarat

The most obvious one, unless its already in the works is OKlahoma City to the ECHL.


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## No Fun Shogun

I'll keep saying Peoria until it happens.


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## Jackets Woodchuck

CrazyEddie20 said:


> Huntsville is a non-starter in the ECHL. The arena is complete dump, and you'd need to give the Huntsville hockey culture an enema to get Keith Jeffries out of there.
> 
> Any ownership group and arena manager with a suitable building in almost any market that work together to do things the right way could be successful. Naming cities is just a masturbatory exercise in wishful thinking.




Would you go as far as to say there is no such thing as a good/better hockey market (i.e. hockey is no more popular anywhere in the US than it is anywhere else) or that at least any market where there is a significant difference is already in the NHL?


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## Jackets Woodchuck

Disengage said:


> Yeah, no. Don't see that one happening. It would just cannibalize the Marlies' ticket sales.




If the Leafs want a GTA ECHL affiliate, they would just affiliate with the Beast.


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## CrazyEddie20

Jackets Woodchuck said:


> Would you go as far as to say there is no such thing as a good/better hockey market (i.e. hockey is no more popular anywhere in the US than it is anywhere else) or that at least any market where there is a significant difference is already in the NHL?




No. But that said, there's no "good hockey market" where, given the money, arena situation, and staff, I'd want to put a team at the current time.

I mean, hockey is pretty popular in Flint, Port Huron, and Muskegon; in Worcester, Omaha, and Oklahoma City, but there are pretty good reasons there aren't professional teams in those cities right now. 

And for those of you who are going to tell me that there's an FHL team in Port Huron - stifle yourselves. The FHL isn't professional.


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## Panic at the Back

No Fun Shogun said:


> I'll keep saying Peoria until it happens.




That's how you play the game!


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## paul-laus

Agreed on the Peoria to ECHL comment and I'll throw a Bossier-Shreveport to the ECHL in the mix. Much like the Indiana Ice of the USHL, it just didn't seem right to watch The Mudbugs win a championship and then go dark. 

I'm seriously thinking that the Colorado Avalanche are hoping that San Antonio of the AHL will be short term thing and eventually hope to have an AHL affiliate in-state or at the worst case scenario in Salt Lake City....


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## Jackets Woodchuck

CrazyEddie20 said:


> No. But that said, there's no "good hockey market" where, given the money, arena situation, and staff, I'd want to put a team at the current time.
> 
> I mean, hockey is pretty popular in Flint, Port Huron, and Muskegon; in Worcester, Omaha, and Oklahoma City, but there are pretty good reasons there aren't professional teams in those cities right now.
> 
> And for those of you who are going to tell me that there's an FHL team in Port Huron - stifle yourselves. The FHL isn't professional.




In other words, anywhere that hockey could work under current conditions has a team already?

I would agree with that except that Manchester could support a return to the AHL (relocation or expansion when NHL adds LV and Quebec) under current conditions.


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## Cacciaguida

Jackets Woodchuck said:


> If the Leafs want a GTA ECHL affiliate, they would just affiliate with the Beast.




In all honestly I wonder if that would help with their attendance. I want to see them succeed.


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## Cacciaguida

And I could see Burlington work out with a Nords affiliation. An arena on the other hand...


Obligatory San Francisco, Oakland, Fresno and Sacramento reference. Another California division anyone?


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## Sports Enthusiast

The league needs to weed out the weak links before we even get here.


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## Woo Hockey

Cacciaguida said:


> And I could see Burlington work out with a Nords affiliation. An arena on the other hand...
> 
> 
> Obligatory San Francisco, Oakland, Fresno and Sacramento reference. Another California division anyone?




Isn't California saturated with enough sports teams as it is?


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## Disengage

ItsNotDylan said:


> Isn't California saturated with enough sports teams as it is?




Isn't New England?


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## Woo Hockey

Disengage said:


> Isn't New England?




Not really, when you break it down from NHL to AHL and other sport leagues such as MLB, NBA, NFL, New England doesn't have nearly as many teams as California.


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## Disengage

ItsNotDylan said:


> Not really, when you break it down from NHL to AHL and other sport leagues such as MLB, NBA, NFL, New England doesn't have nearly as many teams as California.




Because California is larger than the New England states combined. Look, I get you want a team back in Worcester but you can't say California has too many teams when your area is just as bad.


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## Cacciaguida

California has been overlooked until fairly recently.

also, what about Baltimore, Jacksonville, Dayton?


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## JungleJON

Cacciaguida said:


> California has been overlooked until fairly recently.
> 
> also, what about Baltimore, Jacksonville, Dayton?




Baltimore and Dayton need arenas.
Don't think Jacksonville is in the mix for getting hockey back as well.
They would be a good fit for the SPHL, but the arena they have is too big and the rent is probably too high for someone to at least break even.


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## Sports Enthusiast

Dayton has been done.

Baltimore would be nice but I think they'd be an AHL team. Although if they wanted to do it right they'd go ECHL and affiliate with Washington.


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## Cacciaguida

All is fine, just make sure they're named the Skipjacks.

Actually, name them the Clippers and use orange black and white.


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## Royalsflagrunner77

Any one think Johnstown could make a comeback the economy in the area is coming back do to the new green energy movement in the US . That county is starting to thrive again. I think it would work with a pittsburgh affiliate.


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## Canucks21

Abbotsford, Las Vegas and Seattle (until they get the NHL team), Houston, Jacksonville.


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## Drake88

*Echl 2015-2016*

If the ECHL were to keep all current teams and add Worcester and OKC, they would finally reach their bench mark of thirty teams and their divisions would be cleaned up (for the most part). I realize it is highly unlikely, but one can dream. Peoria is a strong candidate as well and could be in the league as well.

*WESTERN CONFERENCE 
*

NORTHWEST DIVISION 
Alaska 
Rapid City 
Idaho 
Utah  
Colorado 

CENTRAL DIVISION 
Oklahoma City 
Tulsa 
Wichita 
Allen 
Missouri 

MID-WEST DIVISION 
Quad City 
Kalamazoo 
Fort Wayne 
Indy 
Evansville 

* EASTERN CONFERENCE*


SOUTHEAST DIVISION
Atlanta
Greenville
Florida
Orlando
South Carolina

NORTHEAST DIVISION
Manchester
Brampton
Worcester
Elmira
Adirondack

ATLANTIC DIVISION
Reading
Cincinnati
Norfolk
Toledo
Wheeling


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## Hurricane Ron

OKC and Worcester to fill out the two conferences makes too much sense for it to happen.


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## Sports Enthusiast

I don't really think a 30-30-30 is necessary or good for the league. I also think the league has enough markets that are weak that they need to weed out before they think of new teams.


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## Cacciaguida

would the Gutterson Fieldhouse in Vermont be good enough to house ECHL hockey? AHL?


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## CrazyEddie20

Cacciaguida said:


> would the Gutterson Fieldhouse in Vermont be good enough to house ECHL hockey? AHL?




Would it be? Yes. Will it? Almost certainly not.


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## CrazyEddie20

Royalsflagrunner77 said:


> Any one think Johnstown could make a comeback the economy in the area is coming back do to the new green energy movement in the US . That county is starting to thrive again. I think it would work with a pittsburgh affiliate.




Johnstown has never really been able to support a team - they've always had owners throwing money down a hole. 

Cambria County is a long way from thriving, and even as a Pittsburgh affiliate, they'd lose hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

The Chiefs are gone. They're not coming back. Let them go.


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## JDogindy

ItsNotDylan said:


> Not really, when you break it down from NHL to AHL and other sport leagues such as MLB, NBA, NFL, New England doesn't have nearly as many teams as California.




Also factor in the exodus of AHL teams, which 15 years ago, seemed impossible. As far as I'm concerned, Providence & Springfield are the only 2 teams that might still have an AHL team by the end of the decade.


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## js957

JDogindy said:


> Also factor in the exodus of AHL teams, which 15 years ago, seemed impossible. As far as I'm concerned, Providence & Springfield are the only 2 teams that might still have an AHL team by the end of the decade.



if the league offices moves then Springfield would probably move to.two of markets that lost their ahl team to ca Manchester and norfolk deserve an ahl team way more than Springfield dose based on their fanbases and the level of interest .Springfield is in the bottom 30 in attendance each year also phoenix could probably force a move if they wanted to


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## Canucks21

js957 said:


> if the league offices moves then Springfield would probably move to.two of markets that lost their ahl team to ca Manchester and norfolk deserve an ahl team way more than Springfield dose based on their fanbases and the level of interest .Springfield is in the bottom 30 in attendance each year also phoenix could probably force a move if they wanted to




Where would Arizona moved them? if they move them to Manchester it puts them in an even worse situation they are now, and Norfolk would be better but still pretty far.


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## Sports Enthusiast

JDogindy said:


> Also factor in the exodus of AHL teams, which 15 years ago, seemed impossible. As far as I'm concerned, Providence & Springfield are the only 2 teams that might still have an AHL team by the end of the decade.




Part of that is somebody willing to place a team there. You'd need somebody wanting their AHL team there. ECHL different story of course but who is interested?


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## Canucks21

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Part of that is somebody willing to place a team there. You'd need somebody wanting their AHL team there. ECHL different story of course but who is interested?




Providence wont be an issue im sure the bruins will keep their ahl team there. For Springfield, the Rangers or Islanders are the only 2 that i can think off that would make sense to keep their AHL team in Springfield long term


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## Nightsquad

Cacciaguida said:


> would the Gutterson Fieldhouse in Vermont be good enough to house ECHL hockey? AHL?




That was already talked about years ago. The UHL had prematurely mentioned Burlington as an expansion market to compliment the old Adirondack and Danbury teams in the northeast. The ECHL got wind of this and quickly eyed Burlington as possible Bruins or Montreal affiliate. The deal breaker was no suitable arena, Gutterson was out of the question as UVM Catamounts were not at all interested in sharing. At one point I recall both Burlington VT and Myrtle Beach SC both listed on the ECHL future markets page if not mistaken. Vermont has had a lousy record though with any sport not associated with UVM. There was even talk about Rutland hosting some form of FHL or UHL team at one point, Vermont is a lost cause lol, it's all UVM.


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## Nightsquad

I still think Danbury would make for one heck of an ECHL market. Sadly though the arena is just not suitable. The fans have been good, paid their dues at even the lowest levels of hockey, the market is very financially well off, they just lack a decent building. The site of the Danbury arena is a perfect downtown location next to parking. It's too bad they can't get an arena in place like that of Elmira's in size. The fanbase there have endured changed teams, changed leagues, changed names, changed ownership, you name it. With all that Fairfield County wealth I don't know why the movers and shakers there haven't been able to get good things done. Makes you wonder if the fanbase there is all tapped out.


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## BTV

js957 said:


> Springfield is in the bottom 30 in attendance each year




Huh? Isn't every AHL team in the bottom 30 in attendance every year?


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## js957

Mattsmith48 said:


> Where would Arizona moved them? if they move them to Manchester it puts them in an even worse situation they are now, and Norfolk would be better but still pretty far.



they could probably forced them to move to an empty arena in ca and flip the team to a local business man I just metioned Manchester bacause they where the best non Bruins affaite in New England when it came to attendce and Norfolk has an astablished fan base


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## JungleJON

Royalsflagrunner77 said:


> Any one think Johnstown could make a comeback the economy in the area is coming back do to the new green energy movement in the US . That county is starting to thrive again. I think it would work with a pittsburgh affiliate.




Sorry, Johnstown will never again rise to have a minor league hockey team. First, you would need local involvement - not going to happen. Second of all, the brilliant leaders of the city had posted billboards in the Philly area stating come to Johnstown for Section 8 Housing. They did, unfortunately we received mostly people involved in the drug market.

Visited my hometown this past summer - sad to see what has become of the city.

Johnstown is Hockeyville, but Johnstown will never see a minor league team again.


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## Nightsquad

Attendance attendance attendance, with every league comes the bottom group of attendance which is irrelevant depending on business factors. Has no real bearing on whether or not the team is sustainable. There always has to be someone at the bottom, and shaking up and moving a team for not drawing like Providence, San Diego, Chicago, Ontario, or Winnipeg is pointless. Have to keep in mind the costs, such factors as leasing costs, merchandise revenue, concessions, locations, tax benefits, all huge factors. The parent clubs care less about who in Springfield, Utica, Albany, Portland, Manchester, or Binghamton who are sitting in the seats as opposed to their players development and the bottom line numbers. They would have moved their teams whether the buildings were well occupied in St. John's or Manchester just as easily as they have done in buildings less occupied.


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## CrazyEddie20

SenorChifles said:


> Sorry, Johnstown will never again rise to have a minor league hockey team. First, you would need local involvement - not going to happen. Second of all, the brilliant leaders of the city had posted billboards in the Philly area stating come to Johnstown for Section 8 Housing. They did, unfortunately we received mostly people involved in the drug market.
> 
> Visited my hometown this past summer - sad to see what has become of the city.
> 
> Johnstown is Hockeyville, but Johnstown will never see a minor league team again.




You're right, Johnstown needs local involvement for a professional team to happen.

What's become of Johnstown is sad - but your entire claim re: Section 8 Housing was debunked in the Tribune-Democrat three years ago: http://www.tribdem.com/news/local_n...cle_a3344bd6-8b3a-5900-a6ff-b27c0e2cf072.html


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## CrazyEddie20

js957 said:


> they could probably forced them to move to an empty arena in ca and flip the team to a local business man I just metioned Manchester bacause they where the best non Bruins affaite in New England when it came to attendce and Norfolk has an astablished fan base




The Coyotes do not own the Falcons and until they do, they can't move them anywhere.


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## JungleJON

CrazyEddie20 said:


> You're right, Johnstown needs local involvement for a professional team to happen.
> 
> What's become of Johnstown is sad - but your entire claim re: Section 8 Housing was debunked in the Tribune-Democrat three years ago: http://www.tribdem.com/news/local_n...cle_a3344bd6-8b3a-5900-a6ff-b27c0e2cf072.html




That is what they say & how many of you believe your local or ANY government?
If you look at crime in the city (drug related) where are most of the people from who get arrested in J-town - Eastern, PA - Philly and surrounding areas. Parts of the city which were once BEAUTIFUL & SAFE to live in, many residents don't even feel safe in the daytime. And don't even get me started in the downtown area.


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## CrazyEddie20

SenorChifles said:


> That is what they say & how many of you believe your local or ANY government?
> If you look at crime in the city (drug related) where are most of the people from who get arrested in J-town - Eastern, PA - Philly and surrounding areas. Parts of the city which were once BEAUTIFUL & SAFE to live in, many residents don't even feel safe in the daytime. And don't even get me started in the downtown area.




That couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Cambria County has seen the average household plunge in to poverty over the last 30 years as the economy there has gone down the toilet? Maybe those people from out of town are coming back to visit relatives and spread their business there?

And do you really believe that people who are TOO POOR TO AFFORD HOUSING have enough money to MOVE HALFWAY ACROSS A STATE FOR CHEAPER HOUSING? That's absolutely ridiculous. If you are too poor to afford decent housing, you have no savings, and are more worried about eating than moving to find lower rent. And if you want to know how I know this, I know because I've been there and lived it.

I'm not saying anyone should believe anything the government says, but try turning off Fox News and thinking about it a little bit.


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## Sports Enthusiast

Johnstown sounds like the Elmira or Wheeling of PA. Makes you wonder how the hell those franchises still exist.


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## Sports Enthusiast

SenorChifles said:


> That is what they say & how many of you believe your local or ANY government?
> If you look at crime in the city (drug related) where are most of the people from who get arrested in J-town - Eastern, PA - Philly and surrounding areas. Parts of the city which were once BEAUTIFUL & SAFE to live in, many residents don't even feel safe in the daytime. And don't even get me started in the downtown area.




I believe Donald Trump for the kicks!


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## CrazyEddie20

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Johnstown sounds like the Elmira or Wheeling of PA. Makes you wonder how the hell those franchises still exist.




Johnstown, economically, is significantly worse than either Elmira or Wheeling. That's why they don't have a team. Wheeling and Elmira aren't far behind, but they've been able to make it work.


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## Cacciaguida

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Johnstown sounds like the Elmira or Wheeling of PA. Makes you wonder how the hell those franchises still exist.




Buffalo and Pittsburgh respectively.


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## CrazyEddie20

Cacciaguida said:


> Buffalo and Pittsburgh respectively.




Neither Buffalo nor Pittsburgh have any ownership stake in or provide funding for the continued operations of Elmira and Wheeling.


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## mk80

What surprises me is that the Peoria Rivermen are sticking around in the SPHL. Personally I would love for them to be back in the ECHL again, but I think their ownership is happier with their operations costs for the time being.

If the NHL expands to 32 teams, Quebec I think Manchester would be looked at again however I'm pretty sure Montreal would just give them St. Johns when they move to Laval.

I would list Houston but sadly they will either have to build a new arena or pray for a change in the Rockets stance on sharing Toyota Center. 

I think that eventually we will see the Abottsford "Canucks" come when the NHL expands and I think Utica would become the affiliate of Las Vegas (I pray to god Seattle).

Although I don't believe it will ever happen I would love to see the Missouri Mavericks as the Blues AHL affiliate instead of the Wolves. Like I said I don't see it happening though.


----------



## Cacciaguida

St. Johns uses airplanes to get off Newfoundland, that's expensive. It's AHL or bust.

I'm pretty sure the Nords expansion will be getting the Icecaps.


----------



## Canucks21

mk80 said:


> What surprises me is that the Peoria Rivermen are sticking around in the SPHL. Personally I would love for them to be back in the ECHL again, but I think their ownership is happier with their operations costs for the time being.
> 
> If the NHL expands to 32 teams, Quebec I think Manchester would be looked at again however I'm pretty sure Montreal would just give them St. Johns when they move to Laval.
> 
> I would list Houston but sadly they will either have to build a new arena or pray for a change in the Rockets stance on sharing Toyota Center.
> 
> I think that eventually we will see the Abottsford "Canucks" come when the NHL expands and I think Utica would become the affiliate of Las Vegas (I pray to god Seattle).
> 
> Although I don't believe it will ever happen I would love to see the Missouri Mavericks as the Blues AHL affiliate instead of the Wolves. Like I said I don't see it happening though.




Las Vegas AHL team will most likely be the Utah Grizzlies or some place in California, Utica could have a ECHL team to replace Utah. QuÃ©bec will probably have their AHL team in St. John's until there is a suitable place somewhere in QuÃ©bec, the Portland Pirates could also be a long term solution for the Nordiques


----------



## CrazyEddie20

Mattsmith48 said:


> Las Vegas AHL team will most likely be the Utah Grizzlies or some place in California, Utica could have a ECHL team to replace Utah. QuÃ©bec will probably have their AHL team in St. John's until there is a suitable place somewhere in QuÃ©bec, the Portland Pirates could also be a long term solution for the Nordiques




Nothing like good old unsourced speculation based on no inside information.

If Las Vegas gets an expansion team, it stands to reason that they'd have an AHL affiliate somewbere out west - but to point a finger at Utah is absurd. They lost money in the AHL, they're losing money in the ECHL, and the fact that they're still around at all is somewhat of a miracle.

Quebec will probably have an AHL affiliate somewhere in the east, but again - to point a finger at St. John's simply because there's an arena and the current franchise there is moving to Laval doesn't mean that another team will go in there is silly - especially when you consider the financial aspect of playing there. It'd be far cheaper for a potential NHL franchise in Quebec to operate an AHL affiliate almost anywhere in the east that St. John's.


----------



## JungleJON

CrazyEddie20 said:


> That couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Cambria County has seen the average household plunge in to poverty over the last 30 years as the economy there has gone down the toilet? Maybe those people from out of town are coming back to visit relatives and spread their business there?
> 
> And do you really believe that people who are TOO POOR TO AFFORD HOUSING have enough money to MOVE HALFWAY ACROSS A STATE FOR CHEAPER HOUSING? That's absolutely ridiculous. If you are too poor to afford decent housing, you have no savings, and are more worried about eating than moving to find lower rent. And if you want to know how I know this, I know because I've been there and lived it.
> 
> *I'm not saying anyone should believe anything the government says, but try turning off Fox News and thinking about it a little bit.*



*
*

For your information I grew up and lived in the city for about 40 years (live outside the US), but still have a hometown address.
Don't watch FOX, CNN or any TV for that matter.

And why would people (druggies) from Philly and the East make their way to Johnstown - small police force. 

I was just back in J-town this past summer - a lot more vacant lots than homes in some areas of town. And the slum lords who don't care WHO they rent their apartments to (anyone with cash) are a part of the problem as well.
I live in a city with close to 12 million people, never have heard gunshots in my neighborhood. Staying in a certain part of J-town I was welcomed by gunshots twice within the first week.


----------



## Canucks21

CrazyEddie20 said:


> Nothing like good old unsourced speculation based on no inside information.
> 
> If Las Vegas gets an expansion team, it stands to reason that they'd have an AHL affiliate somewbere out west - but to point a finger at Utah is absurd. They lost money in the AHL, they're losing money in the ECHL, and the fact that they're still around at all is somewhat of a miracle.
> 
> Quebec will probably have an AHL affiliate somewhere in the east, but again - to point a finger at St. John's simply because there's an arena and the current franchise there is moving to Laval doesn't mean that another team will go in there is silly - especially when you consider the financial aspect of playing there. It'd be far cheaper for a potential NHL franchise in Quebec to operate an AHL affiliate almost anywhere in the east that St. John's.




Anywhere is cheaper then st. John's for any NHL team. I only said St. John's would be an option until there is a suitable arena somewhere in QuÃ©bec.


----------



## Captain Crash

Mattsmith48 said:


> Anywhere is cheaper then st. John's for any NHL team. I only said St. John's would be an option until there is a suitable arena somewhere in QuÃ©bec.




Quebecor is already on record that they'd move an AHL affiliate to Trois-Rivieres, which is logical because it's nearby, a nice sized market, and is barred from the QMJHL because of Shawinigan's territorial rights.


----------



## Canucks21

Captain Crash said:


> Quebecor is already on record that they'd move an AHL affiliate to Trois-Rivieres, which is logical because it's nearby, a nice sized market, and is barred from the QMJHL because of Shawinigan's territorial rights.




The QMJHL wants to eliminate the territorial rights from its constitution so Trois-Rivieres can get a team when they finally realize Bathurst is not a major junior market


----------



## js957

CrazyEddie20 said:


> The Coyotes do not own the Falcons and until they do, they can't move them anywhere.



The Coyotes dont own the falcons in the same way the ducks did not own the admirals .it only a matter of time before they do


----------



## Cacciaguida

CrazyEddie20 said:


> Nothing like good old unsourced speculation based on no inside information.
> 
> If Las Vegas gets an expansion team, it stands to reason that they'd have an AHL affiliate somewbere out west - but to point a finger at Utah is absurd. They lost money in the AHL, they're losing money in the ECHL, and the fact that they're still around at all is somewhat of a miracle.
> 
> Quebec will probably have an AHL affiliate somewhere in the east, but again - to point a finger at St. John's simply because there's an arena and the current franchise there is moving to Laval doesn't mean that another team will go in there is silly - especially when you consider the financial aspect of playing there. It'd be far cheaper for a potential NHL franchise in Quebec to operate an AHL affiliate almost anywhere in the east that St. John's.




Well the fact their affiliation ends close to the suspected expansion certainly helps.

St. Johns also has supported the AHL quite well. They honestly 'deserve' a team.

Quebec and Montreal are the best markets for it, aside from stopgaps. There's actual direct flights to those cities so any other team will have to wait longer to get their callups. Aside from _maybe_ Toronto but they have the Marlies and have already pulled out of Newfoundland before. And I doubt Ottawa has the money to spend.

There is no proof that the AHL will work in Quebec either. It could turn out fine or be a total disaster.




Mattsmith48 said:


> Anywhere is cheaper then st. John's for any NHL team. I only said St. John's would be an option until there is a suitable arena somewhere in QuÃ©bec.




Quebec doesn't have to worry about money, the ownership has billions. If they didn't they wouldn't even be in the running for a pro team.



js957 said:


> The Coyotes dont own the falcons in the same way the ducks did not own the admirals .it only a matter of time before they do




they're broke.


----------



## jason2020

Cacciaguida said:


> Well the fact their affiliation ends close to the suspected expansion certainly helps.
> 
> St. Johns also has supported the AHL quite well. They honestly 'deserve' a team.
> 
> Quebec and Montreal are the best markets for it, aside from stopgaps. There's actual direct flights to those cities so any other team will have to wait longer to get their callups. Aside from _maybe_ Toronto but they have the Marlies and have already pulled out of Newfoundland before. And I doubt Ottawa has the money to spend.
> 
> There is no proof that the AHL will work in Quebec either. It could turn out fine or be a total disaster.
> 
> I would not be to sure about Ottawa not having the money some have made it seems worse then it really is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quebec doesn't have to worry about money, the ownership has billions. If they didn't they wouldn't even be in the running for a pro team.
> 
> 
> 
> they're broke.





I would not be to sure about Ottawa not having the money some have made it seems worse then it really is now as for Quebec there like Edmonton sure they might have billions but that does not mean it will be spent on the team.


----------



## Cacciaguida

Melnyk is probably the least wealthy owner in the league, or one of them.

I'd be interesting if the Sens would look at Cornwall or Orleans. Both would need arenas but most potential markets do.


----------



## Canucks21

Cacciaguida said:


> Melnyk is probably the least wealthy owner in the league, or one of them.
> 
> I'd be interesting if the Sens would look at Cornwall or Orleans. Both would need arenas but most potential markets do.




Cornwall already have a rink it would be more a matter of do they want to put money on this when both AHL and OHL team failed in Cornwall


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Binghamton to the ECHL would make sense long term. The ECHL is starting to get some teams in the East again. The AHL is so over saturated in the Northeast.


----------



## Cacciaguida

Yet the QMJHL worked in Cornwall. The idea of an Ontario based QMJHL team is interesting. 

Also, the affiliation would be Ottawa and not Quebec City. 

I'm assuming the arena would need to be fixed up and retrofitted, still if there's money to be made... 


_Binghamton to the ECHL would make sense long term. The ECHL is starting to get some teams in the East again. The AHL is so over saturated in the Northeast._


Agreed, Binghamton is also one of the AHLs smaller markets with one of the smaller arenas. It's decently supported so I'm curious how'd the ECHL transition would do, even if Ottawa decides to stay there, or if Rangers/Islanders/Devils move in for a close AA affiliate.

They'd have Adirondack to play against, which could help both markets. Manchester too and soon Worcester may join them.


----------



## JDogindy

Yeah, as the AHL is moving away from its traditional stronghold in favor of wherever in this continent, the ECHL should try to go to those areas. The SPHL has most of the southern markets they used to have, anyway.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

I wonder what happens long term with the Southern ECHL markets. Logically you could argue with how the AHL is changing that the East will soon be open that if former AHL markets in the Northeast want it they could go ECHL. I wonder if teams like Florida, Atlanta, Orlando and SC/Greenville would ever be interested in the SPHL. There's not nearly as many teams in the South as there was when SC and Florida came into the league. Pretty soon the ECHL "West" will disappear more than likely. By that I mean the teams way out West versus necessarily the whole conference. I think it'd be cool if they could make the SPHL a AA league that kinda rivals the ECHL and they take a minor league baseball approach and the two league winners meet for the level winner of the year.


----------



## Canucks21

Sports Enthusiast said:


> I wonder what happens long term with the Southern ECHL markets. Logically you could argue with how the AHL is changing that the East will soon be open that if former AHL markets in the Northeast want it they could go ECHL. I wonder if teams like Florida, Atlanta, Orlando and SC/Greenville would ever be interested in the SPHL. There's not nearly as many teams in the South as there was when SC and Florida came into the league. Pretty soon the ECHL "West" will disappear more than likely. By that I mean the teams way out West versus necessarily the whole conference. I think it'd be cool if they could make the SPHL a AA league that kinda rivals the ECHL and they take a minor league baseball approach and the two league winners meet for the level winner of the year.




Well then western teams will need a place to play when the AHL move more teams out west also the ECHL only has 28 teams so there is still 2 more teams available 4 if you count QuÃ©bec and Las Vegas that could take those southern market where some current SPHL team play


----------



## JDogindy

Mattsmith48 said:


> Well then western teams will need a place to play when the AHL move more teams out west also the ECHL only has 28 teams so there is still 2 more teams available 4 if you count QuÃ©bec and Las Vegas that could take those southern market where some current SPHL team play




Here's a possibility, experiment with untapped or underused markets. Three areas I think that can suffice for minor league teams might be San Bernardino, Albuquerque, and Bossier-Shreveport. Just because the AHL took all the California teams doesn't mean California is closed for good to the ECHL.


----------



## Captain Crash

JDogindy said:


> Here's a possibility, experiment with untapped or underused markets. Three areas I think that can suffice for minor league teams might be San Bernardino, Albuquerque, and Bossier-Shreveport. Just because the AHL took all the California teams doesn't mean California is closed for good to the ECHL.




May need to wait on Bossier-Shreveport. They've already announced that an NAHL team will set up shop in the market for 2016-2017 based out of a soon-to-be-upgraded Hirsch Coliseum.


----------



## JDogindy

Captain Crash said:


> May need to wait on Bossier-Shreveport. They've already announced that an NAHL team will set up shop in the market for 2016-2017 based out of a soon-to-be-upgraded Hirsch Coliseum.




Ah, didn't know about that. Was hoping they'd go to ECHL; the Mudbugs were a staple of the old CHL and would've liked to see them play the Fuel.


----------



## Cacciaguida

Wyoming
Montana 
Memphis
Oklahoma City
Arkansas
Vermont
Delaware


Grow the game?


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Mattsmith48 said:


> Well then western teams will need a place to play when the AHL move more teams out west also the ECHL only has 28 teams so there is still 2 more teams available 4 if you count QuÃ©bec and Las Vegas that could take those southern market where some current SPHL team play




Why does everybody think that they are going to get up to the same number of NHL teams?


----------



## Hurricane Ron

Cacciaguida said:


> Wyoming
> Montana
> Memphis
> Oklahoma City
> Arkansas
> Vermont
> Delaware
> 
> 
> Grow the game?




Memphis is already served by the Mississippi River Kings in the SPHL. Southhaven, MS is a suburb of Memphis, TN. 

I don't think Arkansas (Little Rock) will be in the mix again. The city actually had 2 teams in the late 1990s/early 2000s, one in the ECHL, the other in WPHL. Neither drew enough fans to survive.

Oklahoma City is a possibility. When the CHL Blazers were around, they usually lead the league in attendance. Not sure what the attendance numbers were for the AHL Barons. Main issue in OKC is competing for entertainment dollars with the NBA Thunder. 

Since I don't reside in the other areas you mentioned, I don't know if they would be plausible or not.


----------



## SemireliableSource

Cacciaguida said:


> Wyoming
> Montana




Where would they play/where are the people?

Cheyenne is the largest city in Wyoming and the metro population is still sub 100k. For comparison's sake: Pensacola has an SPHL team and a metropolitan area of over 400k.

Montana suffers in the "where are the people" category too. Billings' is largest metro area and it's only about 167k.


----------



## CrazyEddie20

Cacciaguida said:


> Wyoming
> Montana
> Memphis
> Oklahoma City
> Arkansas
> Vermont
> Delaware
> 
> 
> Grow the game?




Montana - Not enough population, though Billings has an arena. 
Memphis - SPHL team plays in Southaven, MS, which is part of the metro area. That said, no chance of ever getting hockey into the NBA arena downtown. 
Oklahoma City - Dismal failure in the AHL. Most of the Blazers fans because Thunder fans and OKC is now an NBA town.
Arkansas - Which city? Fayetteville? No arena. Little Rock? Nope. Failed twice in two leagues. Texarkana? Nope.
Vermont - Not enough population, market dominated by UVM hockey and no arena for pro hockey - and no, a pro team couldn't play at UVM.
Delaware - No arena.


----------



## Canucks21

Anyone knows until when AHL and ECHL owners have to apply for relocation or expansion?


----------



## CrazyEddie20

Mattsmith48 said:


> Anyone knows until when AHL and ECHL owners have to apply for relocation or expansion?




Generally, such applications are made around the mid-season meetings/All-Star game. More recently, ECHL teams haven't relocated into an empty market without taking a year off to build up the market.


----------



## Hoodaha

ItsNotDylan said:


> Isn't California saturated with enough sports teams as it is?




Fresno and Sacramento are underserved, good sized markets. SF/Oakland are underserved too, but with way too many complications for minor league hockey.


----------



## Canucks21

Since its very likely that st. john's wont be in the AHL for every long you guys think they could survive in the ECHL


----------



## PCSPounder

Hoodaha said:


> Fresno and Sacramento are underserved, good sized markets. SF/Oakland are underserved too, but with way too many complications for minor league hockey.




Since Vivek Ranadive is supposedly circling the dead carcass of the AFL San Jose Sabercats, it's possible Golden 1 Center might be able to host hockey. However, Ranadive's interest is touted more by AFL hopefuls than anyone else I've heard.

While the distortion of this cam http://golden1center.com/live/ could be substantial, and while the seats aren't quite angled the way you'd want for hockey, perhaps it's possible.

Fresno needs another 5 years for the baseball team to stabilize (and 5 more years on from the issues with the Falcons, probably) before they might be ready to give the kind of sweetheart deal the ECHL might want. Or not. California doesn't really do sweetheart deals these days, Sacramento being the exception.

BTW, in regards to other suggestions: San Bernardino is too close to Ontario. I've got to think someone could do Albuquerque right, but the track record sucks. Billings clearly has lost any sort of ambition... and, yes, it's a small market. Shreveport... SMH. If the Canucks and Vancouver Giants are keeping something out of Abbotsford and the AHL doesn't come back soon, that might be about it.


----------



## SemireliableSource

Mattsmith48 said:


> Since its very likely that st. john's wont be in the AHL for every long you guys think they could survive in the ECHL



lol nah. Pro hockey for St. John's is AHL or nothing. An ECHL team would have to have ridiculous ticket prices for an ECHL team to try and put a dent in the travel expenses. 

Unless the ECHL was some how able to make a dent in the Quebec/Maritimes market, it isn't going to happen.


----------



## Canucks21

FrancoRussianAlaskan said:


> lol nah. Pro hockey for St. John's is AHL or nothing. An ECHL team would have to have ridiculous ticket prices for an ECHL team to try and put a dent in the travel expenses.
> 
> Unless the ECHL was some how able to make a dent in the Quebec/Maritimes market, it isn't going to happen.




If Alaska can do it in the ECHL how come st. john's wouldnt?


----------



## CrazyEddie20

Mattsmith48 said:


> If Alaska can do it in the ECHL how come st. john's wouldnt?




Wealthy, motivated ownership that assembled an outstanding sales staff is why Alaska works. I'm not certain that a group like that exists to make an ECHL team work on the Rock.


----------



## Neill99

*Kentucky*

Louisville or Lexington bring back Kentucky Thoroughblades.


----------



## Canucks21

CrazyEddie20 said:


> Wealthy, motivated ownership that assembled an outstanding sales staff is why Alaska works. I'm not certain that a group like that exists to make an ECHL team work on the Rock.




The Current owners make it work in the AHL I dont see why they woundnt atlease try and make it work in the ECHL


----------



## mk80

Worcester seems to be heading toward getting a team. 

I think maybe Sacramento in the west is a candidate and I've heard they have a new arena. 

I'll always keep saying Peoria but they seem content in being in the SPHL.

Other than that there are markets that I think would be good but wouldn't work because of arena/ NBA teams such as Houston, and New Orleans would make great additions. 

Honestly I wish the St Charles Chill had been a success and could have made the jump. I love the Blues but I also love minor league hockey and the affordability of going to games. Plus I'm 15 minutes from Family Arena. Oh well though.


----------



## blizz71

I believe I read that the new arena in Sacramento has been designed and built with only basketball in mind. 

Those types of arenas have horrible sight lines for a hockey rink.


----------



## mk80

Well if that's the case then we'll have to see what they do. And I agree about the sight lines, just look at the Barclays center pictures. I admit its a beautiful modern arena, but some of those seat locations are awful.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Sacramento doesn't make much sense now.


----------



## Canucks21

Not sure if Sacramento would work they only had one hockey team in history the Sacramento Rebels they played in the California Western Hockey League from 1975-1978 there is a reason no one never really tried to get a team there


----------



## Cacciaguida

meh, for minor league hockey it doesn't matter that much.

and these basketball-only arenas need to just die out, build arena with universal sightlines you cheapskates.

how about Chilliwack?


----------



## Cacciaguida

Mattsmith48 said:


> The Current owners make it work in the AHL I dont see why they woundnt atlease try and make it work in the ECHL





because flying is too expensive for the ECHL!!! you have to fly off the rock to reach anyone else.

and why would you pay more for an inferior product?


----------



## PCSPounder

Cacciaguida said:


> because flying is too expensive for the ECHL!!! you have to fly off the rock to reach anyone else.
> 
> and why would you pay more for an inferior product?




There's a core of western markets who had made flying the ECHL work for nearly 20 years. The AHL took a couple of those markets, which is why there's questions now with remaining ECHL markets. Those markets charge pretty much AHL prices in the first place.

Can more be added? I'd like to think so, but I'm not the guy with the money... and, evidently, not many others are laying their money down.


----------



## GareFan18

OKC can make a go of it in the ECHL. KC, Wichita, Tulsa, OKC, Allen would make a great division.
There was some dilution of their fan base when the Thunder arrived. There was also some when an NBDL team started playing in OKC. However, the NBDL's attendance is worse than the SPHL.
OKC is a big enough market, with residents with plenty of disposable income, to make a go of it. Not everyone can afford NBA tickets (or want to sit through that crap).

If not OKC, I'd like to see a return of the Ft. Worth Brahmas.

The proposed 9,000 seat arena in NW Arkansas was never built. It's too bad. I think NW Arkansas would also fit in well with KC, Tulsa, etc. NW Arkansas has been a good AA baseball market.


----------



## Canucks21

Is there any expansion or relocation rumours youve heard could happen or is it gonna be the same teams in both leagues nnext year?


----------



## JDogindy

GareFan18 said:


> OKC can make a go of it in the ECHL. KC, Wichita, Tulsa, OKC, Allen would make a great division.
> There was some dilution of their fan base when the Thunder arrived. There was also some when an NBDL team started playing in OKC. However, the NBDL's attendance is worse than the SPHL.
> OKC is a big enough market, with residents with plenty of disposable income, to make a go of it. Not everyone can afford NBA tickets (or want to sit through that crap).
> 
> If not OKC, I'd like to see a return of the Ft. Worth Brahmas.
> 
> The proposed 9,000 seat arena in NW Arkansas was never built. It's too bad. I think NW Arkansas would also fit in well with KC, Tulsa, etc. NW Arkansas has been a good AA baseball market.




Part of the problem with the OKC Blue was that, and I only found this out recently, the Thunder actually wanted the Tulsa 66ers to stay in Tulsa really, really badly, but couldn't find a venue for them, so they are pretty much trying to keep their D-League team in any shape they can. As much momentum the D-League is getting, some of the teams (Bakersfield and Los Angeles) still play in training gyms instead of actual venues due to cost.

That said, I think minor league hockey returning to OKC is viable, due to the smaller arena that could service the Blazers. It's all dependent if there's a guy, like in Worcester, who wants it badly and can rally sponsers and support.

I don't think Arkansas would be a viable market for any team. It's at best a college and minor league baseball state. The ECHL team had an okay existence, but they also had the Border City Border Cats (Texarkana), that folded mid-season in the CHL back in 2000.


----------



## offkilter

Mattsmith48 said:


> Is there any expansion or relocation rumours youve heard could happen or is it gonna be the same teams in both leagues nnext year?




The AHL actually seems more stable now that it his been in years. Big rumors for them involve the Rangers affiliate leaving Hartford and moving to upstate New York. The other AHL one involves Montreal moving their team to Laval, but they need to buy an AHL franchise as St. John's is locally owned.

The ECHL has its usual share of rumors with teams with poor attendance that might fold. Big rumor here is that someone in Reno is ready to finally ice a team and activate the franchise. Worcester Ma. is all but confirmed to get a team, but that won't be for another year and half pretty much.


----------



## mk80

GareFan18 said:


> OKC can make a go of it in the ECHL. KC, Wichita, Tulsa, OKC, Allen would make a great division.
> There was some dilution of their fan base when the Thunder arrived. There was also some when an NBDL team started playing in OKC. However, the NBDL's attendance is worse than the SPHL.
> OKC is a big enough market, with residents with plenty of disposable income, to make a go of it. Not everyone can afford NBA tickets (or want to sit through that crap).
> 
> If not OKC, I'd like to see a return of the Ft. Worth Brahmas.
> 
> The proposed 9,000 seat arena in NW Arkansas was never built. It's too bad. I think NW Arkansas would also fit in well with KC, Tulsa, etc. NW Arkansas has been a good AA baseball market.




Fort Worth is interesting because obviously the DFW area is a big area. It would be a good partner location for Allen. The Brahmas were a solid team early in their history, however their original burned bridges with the city and their tenure at NYTEX was ugly, their demise cemented by an ownership group that lied through its teeth about financing. Unfortunately I think the bad taste would still be in everyone's mouth there right now to revive them. But maybe in the future. 

Arkansas if anything is probably best served as a juniors market. However if they had pro hockey again the SPHL is the better choice I think. If interest was through the roof for SPHL then I'd say by all means bump em up.


----------



## Canucks21

offkilter said:


> The AHL actually seems more stable now that it his been in years. Big rumors for them involve the Rangers affiliate leaving Hartford and moving to upstate New York. The other AHL one involves Montreal moving their team to Laval, but they need to buy an AHL franchise as St. John's is locally owned.
> 
> The ECHL has its usual share of rumors with teams with poor attendance that might fold. Big rumor here is that someone in Reno is ready to finally ice a team and activate the franchise. Worcester Ma. is all but confirmed to get a team, but that won't be for another year and half pretty much.




Actually the Laval arena won't be ready until 2017 the Canadiens have a 2 yrs deal with the IceCaps.
I know Trevor Linden said in a interview back in November they plan to stay in Utica for next season.
I didn't knew about Hartford but what are the markets left in New York?

Worcester makes since for the ECHL, Reno seems pretty far from everyone else would make more since if Las Vegas was still there


----------



## Panic at the Back

Mattsmith48 said:


> Actually the Laval arena won't be ready until 2017 the Canadiens have a 2 yrs deal with the IceCaps.
> I know Trevor Linden said in a interview back in November they plan to stay in Utica for next season.
> I didn't knew about Hartford but what are the markets left in New York?
> 
> Worcester makes since for the ECHL, Reno seems pretty far from everyone else would make more since if Las Vegas was still there




I had heard a rumor that Rangers were looking to move to Bridgeport, and the Islanders were looking at Long Island - but that was a rumor I heard six months back.


----------



## Canucks21

Panic at the Back said:


> I had heard a rumor that Rangers were looking to move to Bridgeport, and the Islanders were looking at Long Island - but that was a rumor I heard six months back.




Ok I know the Brooklyn Nets want to move their Dleague team in Long Island would make since the Islanders do the same


----------



## Panic at the Back

Mattsmith48 said:


> Ok I know the Brooklyn Nets want to move their Dleague team in Long Island would make since the Islanders do the same





Rangers want Bridgeport because they two teams could train at the same place, and it would better for their fan base. 

---
By the way, the Bridgeport Arena is way nicer than Hartford's XL Center.


----------



## Canucks21

Panic at the Back said:


> Rangers want Bridgeport because they two teams could train at the same place, and it would better for their fan base.
> 
> ---
> By the way, the Bridgeport Arena is way nicer than Hartford's XL Center.




Isnt Bridgeport also in Connecticut?


----------



## Panic at the Back

Mattsmith48 said:


> Isnt Bridgeport also in Connecticut?




Yeah, I think it is 20 minutes from where the Rangers train, basically a suburb of NYC.


----------



## offkilter

Panic at the Back said:


> Yeah, I think it is 20 minutes from where the Rangers train, basically a suburb of NYC.




IIRC the Rangers train in Tarrytown NY which is roughly an hour and ten minutes from Bridgeport give or take.


----------



## Cornwall OHL

offkilter said:


> The AHL actually seems more stable now that it his been in years. Big rumors for them involve the Rangers affiliate leaving Hartford and moving to upstate New York. The other AHL one involves Montreal moving their team to Laval, but they need to buy an AHL franchise as St. John's is locally owned.
> 
> The ECHL has its usual share of rumors with teams with poor attendance that might fold. Big rumor here is that someone in Reno is ready to finally ice a team and activate the franchise. Worcester Ma. is all but confirmed to get a team, but that won't be for another year and half pretty much.




St. John's isn't locally owned. It is run by former Premier Danny Williams, but he doesn't own it. See here.


----------



## offkilter

Panic at the Back said:


> I had heard a rumor that Rangers were looking to move to Bridgeport, and the Islanders were looking at Long Island - but that was a rumor I heard six months back.




This rumor comes from the fact that Bridgeport's The Arena at Harbor Yard ownersregistered the domain names ctrangers.com and connecticutrangers.com awhile back.



Cornwall OHL said:


> St. John's isn't locally owned. It is run by former Premier Danny Williams, but he doesn't own it. See here.




The sad thing is I actually remember that going down and should have realized it. I'm having major a brain fart today. Give me a few hours and I'll have all the rumors sorted out.


----------



## PCSPounder

JDogindy said:


> Part of the problem with the OKC Blue was that, and I only found this out recently, the Thunder actually wanted the Tulsa 66ers to stay in Tulsa really, really badly, but couldn't find a venue for them, so they are pretty much trying to keep their D-League team in any shape they can. As much momentum the D-League is getting, some of the teams (Bakersfield and Los Angeles) still play in training gyms instead of actual venues due to cost.




Just wanted to point this out: Bakersfield sells it differently. They're not offering tickets online.

http://bakersfield.dleague.nba.com/jam-ticket-central/

The facility seats 750.

http://bakersfield.dleague.nba.com/dignity-health-event-center/

Scroll down from this link for their sales pitch and pictures... they're selling business connections as much as basketball. Reportedly, the Jam are making money doing this. Scary, no?


----------



## Panic at the Back

offkilter said:


> IIRC the Rangers train in Tarrytown NY which is roughly an hour and ten minutes from Bridgeport give or take.




I'm just relaying what the guy told me, maybe they were thinking of moving it. or maybe he meant a trip to Manhattan (no way that is right), but again this was back in July when he said something. Either way, Bridgeport is a lot closer than Hartford.


----------



## Hurricane Ron

JDogindy said:


> Part of the problem with the OKC Blue was that, and I only found this out recently, the Thunder actually wanted the Tulsa 66ers to stay in Tulsa really, really badly, but couldn't find a venue for them, so they are pretty much trying to keep their D-League team in any shape they can. As much momentum the D-League is getting, some of the teams (Bakersfield and Los Angeles) still play in training gyms instead of actual venues due to cost.
> 
> That said, I think minor league hockey returning to OKC is viable, due to the smaller arena that could service the Blazers. It's all dependent if there's a guy, like in Worcester, who wants it badly and can rally sponsers and support.
> 
> I don't think Arkansas would be a viable market for any team. It's at best a college and minor league baseball state. The ECHL team had an okay existence, but they also had the Border City Border Cats (Texarkana), that folded mid-season in the CHL back in 2000.




In response to the comment regarding OKC Blue/Tulsa 66ers ... I'm totally unaware of any desire on the Thunder's part in keeping the team in Tulsa. The 66ers played in 2 different arenas in Tulsa, and there was at least 1 other that would have also been viable for them to play in. People in Tulsa viewed the move as simply the Thunder wanting their future players in the same city as the Thunder, in spite of it being a 2 hour drive between OKC and Tulsa. Attendance for the D-League was terrible in Tulsa, but it is terrible in OKC as well.

As far as OKC returning to hockey, geographically it would be great, but I'm not sure that there is the fan support for it to be financially viable. Attendance for the Blazers / Barons dropped considerably after the Thunder got to town. I believe most people in the area would rather spend their entertainment dollars on the NBA than the ECHL. That being said, there is probably a core of 3000 folks who would show up for hockey. I don't know enough about the financial aspects of running a team to know if that would be sufficient to pay the bills or not.


----------



## Canucks21

Hurricane Ron said:


> In response to the comment regarding OKC Blue/Tulsa 66ers ... I'm totally unaware of any desire on the Thunder's part in keeping the team in Tulsa. The 66ers played in 2 different arenas in Tulsa, and there was at least 1 other that would have also been viable for them to play in. People in Tulsa viewed the move as simply the Thunder wanting their future players in the same city as the Thunder, in spite of it being a 2 hour drive between OKC and Tulsa. Attendance for the D-League was terrible in Tulsa, but it is terrible in OKC as well.
> 
> As far as OKC returning to hockey, geographically it would be great, but I'm not sure that there is the fan support for it to be financially viable. Attendance for the Blazers / Barons dropped considerably after the Thunder got to town. I believe most people in the area would rather spend their entertainment dollars on the NBA than the ECHL. That being said, there is probably a core of 3000 folks who would show up for hockey. I don't know enough about the financial aspects of running a team to know if that would be sufficient to pay the bills or not.




ECHL teams seems to work in other small NBA markets like Indy, Orlando and Utah, but for a team to work long term in OKC you might want to have the NBA team to be involved with it.


----------



## Cornwall OHL

Would an ECHL team work in Cornwall, ON? Cornwall is a city of almost 50,000 people, and an additional 60,000 in the Counties surrounding it. It is a 1 hour drive from both Ottawa and Montreal, 4 hours from Toronto. Brampton is 4 hours away, Adirondack is a little less than 4 hours, Elmira 4.5 hours, and Manchester is 5 hours away.

The arena holds approximately 5,000 people.


----------



## JDogindy

Hurricane Ron said:


> In response to the comment regarding OKC Blue/Tulsa 66ers ... I'm totally unaware of any desire on the Thunder's part in keeping the team in Tulsa. The 66ers played in 2 different arenas in Tulsa, and there was at least 1 other that would have also been viable for them to play in. People in Tulsa viewed the move as simply the Thunder wanting their future players in the same city as the Thunder, in spite of it being a 2 hour drive between OKC and Tulsa. Attendance for the D-League was terrible in Tulsa, but it is terrible in OKC as well.
> 
> As far as OKC returning to hockey, geographically it would be great, but I'm not sure that there is the fan support for it to be financially viable. Attendance for the Blazers / Barons dropped considerably after the Thunder got to town. I believe most people in the area would rather spend their entertainment dollars on the NBA than the ECHL. That being said, there is probably a core of 3000 folks who would show up for hockey. I don't know enough about the financial aspects of running a team to know if that would be sufficient to pay the bills or not.




I don't know if it was the team's play or the fact that, for 6 years, they had to endure a chronic loser in the WNBA's Tulsa Shock (now the Dallas Wings) that soured people on seeing basketbakk in Tulsa, but I do attest to the poor standings. And, really, I think the Blue suffer because I don't think they are hyped in the area as an alternative at all. Really; they are just there.

As for the venue, the Thunder had to move the 66ers because the owners of the second venue they played in decided they weren't going to host events there anymore until they sold it.

And, besides, 3000 is an acceptable average for ECHL hockey. It's if you can turn that into a profit or build on it that's a thing.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Cornwall OHL said:


> Would an ECHL team work in Cornwall, ON? Cornwall is a city of almost 50,000 people, and an additional 60,000 in the Counties surrounding it. It is a 1 hour drive from both Ottawa and Montreal, 4 hours from Toronto. Brampton is 4 hours away, Adirondack is a little less than 4 hours, Elmira 4.5 hours, and Manchester is 5 hours away.
> 
> The arena holds approximately 5,000 people.




Could they try it? Yeah. Work? Who knows. It might be good though for Brampton if they had an Ontario team to spar with.


----------



## Hurricane Ron

JDogindy said:


> I don't know if it was the team's play or the fact that, for 6 years, they had to endure a chronic loser in the WNBA's Tulsa Shock (now the Dallas Wings) that soured people on seeing basketbakk in Tulsa, but I do attest to the poor standings. And, really, I think the Blue suffer because I don't think they are hyped in the area as an alternative at all. Really; they are just there.
> 
> As for the venue, the Thunder had to move the 66ers because the owners of the second venue they played in decided they weren't going to host events there anymore until they sold it.
> 
> And, besides, 3000 is an acceptable average for ECHL hockey. It's if you can turn that into a profit or build on it that's a thing.




66ers played at the Cox Business Center (former Assembly Center) and Spirit Bank Arena. They could have also played at the Fairgrounds Arena in Tulsa. The move, as reported by local media, had nothing to do with the closure of Spirit Bank arena. If you have insider information that the closure of Spirt Bank Arena was the reason, then you know more than was reported locally. Again, even with Spirit Bank Arena closing, there were two other viable arenas where the team could play. That being said, don't believe the team averaged 1000 fans. Most of that reason is because basketball fans in the Tulsa area would rather drive down the turnpike and watch the Thunder, or go to Norman or Stillwater or stay in Tulsa and watch college hoops. Not much market for watching D-League hoops when the other options are available. Tulsa Shock had no impact on 66ers, as the seasons don't even overlap.

If 3000 is viable for an ECHL team, I have no doubt that OKC could draw that, and possibly more, with the return of regional rivals. I'm sure hockey fans in OKC would look forward to seeing teams from Tulsa, Wichita and Allen over their previous nearest rivals in Cedar Park and San Antonio. That being said, Edmonton provided the Barons with a quality AHL team, and they didn't draw enough to remain in the league. And while I recognize the move to California by the AHL, I believe if OKC had drawn enough fans, this wasn't a team that would have moved. Have to believe its not any easier getting a player from Bakersfield to Edmonton than it was from OKC. 

The other fact is that OKC has a long history of teams not surviving there. Original Blazers lost teams in 1972 and 1977. They also lost the Stars in 1983, and the Blazers again in 2009. 

That being said, a team in OKC in the ECHL would be great geographically for the teams in the Central Division. Whether it happens or not, remains to be seen.


----------



## Nightsquad

offkilter said:


> The AHL actually seems more stable now that it his been in years. Big rumors for them involve the Rangers affiliate leaving Hartford and moving to upstate New York. The other AHL one involves Montreal moving their team to Laval, but they need to buy an AHL franchise as St. John's is locally owned.
> 
> The ECHL has its usual share of rumors with teams with poor attendance that might fold. Big rumor here is that someone in Reno is ready to finally ice a team and activate the franchise. Worcester Ma. is all but confirmed to get a team, but that won't be for another year and half pretty much.




Relatives in Upstate NY in Saratoga Springs say credible indicators are officials in nearby Albany have been trying to secure the placement of the Rangers AHL team in Albany. Seems to make alot of sense considering many in that region are Ranger fans, not NJ Devils fans. Never made sense for Lowell or Worcester to be an affiliate of a team other then the Bruins. I guess state politicians are also behind tbe effort so we may very well see Albany NY as home to tbe Ranvers top developmental club.


----------



## Clinton Comets EHL

Nightsquad said:


> Relatives in Upstate NY in Saratoga Springs say credible indicators are officials in nearby Albany have been trying to secure the placement of the Rangers AHL team in Albany. Seems to make alot of sense considering many in that region are Ranger fans, not NJ Devils fans. Never made sense for Lowell or Worcester to be an affiliate of a team other then the Bruins. I guess state politicians are also behind tbe effort so we may very well see Albany NY as home to tbe Ranvers top developmental club.




I doubt it.


----------



## Nightsquad

6768clintoncomets575 said:


> I doubt it.




I wouldn't at all, for few reasons. That area is Ranger country and location is perfect. You can stick a player on the train in Albany and have him get off in the basement of MSG in about 2.5 hours (Penn Station is in MSG). The Rangers wanted Albany, but King Lou blocked a move when the Rangers wanted their team in Albany and asked the Devils to move to either Atlantic City or Trenton. When the Devils play the Wolfpack there are more Ranger fans in the stands, another key indicator. Lastly, officials from Albany County are in early stages of talks with politicians at the statewide level from New York City, and the fact the Albany area fan base did not care to see the Devils organization back, although that might change as the Devils organization is working to make not only the NJ Devils better but appears to have good intentions of fixing the problems in Albany. The Rangers would love to build their base, and Upstate NY and the Capital Region is the most region of New York State with a healthy economy, is actually growing while cities like Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Elmira, and Binghamton are largely stagnant. The Albany area has more in common with the New York Metropolitan region then anywhere else in the state. Should we see the likes of the Albany NY Rangers or the Tri-City Rangers I wouldn't be suprised to see Albany crowds of 5000 or more on a regular basis back in Albany. I don't know though, the Devils in Albany are doing quite well and have a great pipeline in the ECHL with Adirondack at the moment. Things hold well for the Devils in Albany the second half of the season might be special, bitter sweet as it could be the end of the Devils in Albany but I believe the NY Rangers are watching closely for the door to open. Either way should be a very good year for Albany fans who decide to support the Devils.


----------



## Nightsquad

6768clintoncomets575 said:


> I doubt it.




Don't doubt anything, the Canucks are also eyeing a B.C. Return in very near future. Abbotsford is not out of the question nor is Langley not far from downtown Vancouver. The travel costs alone would be worth the move. If I was a fan from the Rome-Utica area I would be hoping for the Rangers to relocate their farm hands from Hartford to Municipal Auditorium. If that door shuts most northeast NHL teams will have their locations locked up but I am sure Rome-Utica would be a solid fit for another ECHL club.


----------



## Cacciaguida

what would happen to Hartford?


----------



## Canucks21

Nightsquad said:


> Don't doubt anything, the Canucks are also eyeing a B.C. Return in very near future. Abbotsford is not out of the question nor is Langley not far from downtown Vancouver. The travel costs alone would be worth the move. If I was a fan from the Rome-Utica area I would be hoping for the Rangers to relocate their farm hands from Hartford to Municipal Auditorium. If that door shuts most northeast NHL teams will have their locations locked up but I am sure Rome-Utica would be a solid fit for another ECHL club.




Trevor Linden said the Canucks have no plans to move their AHL affiliate in the near future


----------



## JungleJON

Canucks21 said:


> Trevor Linden said the Canucks have no plans to move their AHL affiliate in the near future




Near future = when the 2015-16 season ends.


----------



## JDogindy

6768clintoncomets575 said:


> I doubt it.




I wouldn't be surprised if they would pull that, to be honest. The Rangers tried Hartford, and Hartford has resisted the Wolfpack and even the 2 years they were the Connecticut Whale. Umm... in the off chance the Canucks decide to move the Comets, would you be open to another NHL team, like the Devils, moving to Utica?

As for Hartford, I think the standard there is the Whalers returning or no hockey at all. Granted, there are some struggling NHL teams that would be better suited with a change of venue, however.


----------



## Clinton Comets EHL

Nightsquad said:


> Don't doubt anything, the Canucks are also eyeing a B.C. Return in very near future. Abbotsford is not out of the question nor is Langley not far from downtown Vancouver. The travel costs alone would be worth the move. If I was a fan from the Rome-Utica area I would be hoping for the Rangers to relocate their farm hands from Hartford to Municipal Auditorium. If that door shuts most northeast NHL teams will have their locations locked up but I am sure Rome-Utica would be a solid fit for another ECHL club.




Ok, please provide some sources. It is the Memorial Auditorium.

The ECHL is not a solid fit in Utica Rome, nor is it in Albany.

The travel costs? The Abbotts ford Comets going to bus to Stockton or San Diego or Winnipeg? Use your head before you type.


----------



## Clinton Comets EHL

JungleJON said:


> Near future = when the 2015-16 season ends.




Yep, you know.


----------



## Clinton Comets EHL

JDogindy said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they would pull that, to be honest. The Rangers tried Hartford, and Hartford has resisted the Wolfpack and even the 2 years they were the Connecticut Whale. Umm... in the off chance the Canucks decide to move the Comets, would you be open to another NHL team, like the Devils, moving to Utica?
> 
> As for Hartford, I think the standard there is the Whalers returning or no hockey at all. Granted, there are some struggling NHL teams that would be better suited with a change of venue, however.




Utica would entertain any NHL team, including the Devils. Lou isn't with the Devs anymore so who knows.


----------



## Clinton Comets EHL

Canucks21 said:


> Trevor Linden said the Canucks have no plans to move their AHL affiliate in the near future




Nightsquad is always pumping Albany. It is a dead hockey town. watching a game at the TUC is like watching a nail rust. I'd rather, as a matter of fact. They could draw 5000 if they were a Rangers affiliate? big deal....it's like watching practice even with 8000 in that dump. 

He has no sources, he's just dreaming.


----------



## Nightsquad

6768clintoncomets575 said:


> Nightsquad is always pumping Albany. It is a dead hockey town. watching a game at the TUC is like watching a nail rust. I'd rather, as a matter of fact. They could draw 5000 if they were a Rangers affiliate? big deal....it's like watching practice even with 8000 in that dump.
> 
> He has no sources, he's just dreaming.




OMG lol please stop, your making me laugh. While the Devils are not supported well the River Rats of the 1990s averaged anywhere from 4500 to 6000 fans per game until the team's stopped making the playoffs in over a decade. A Rangers affiliation is what the hockey fans there want, otherwise they will support the solid NCAA DI teams at Union or RPI.

Calling Albany's arena a dump, as compared to Utica's Municipal Auditorium. The tiny building has historic value yes but there isn't enough of the few public funds to make it better then the Albany arena, no way lol apples to oranges. Isn't Albany's arena set to embark of a 15 million renovation project in time for next season? How many events even come to Utica other then hockey? Albany hosts NCAA DI basketball, arena MX, Trans Siberian Orchestra, Ringling Brothers circus, and not to mention major concerts that Utica will never even dream of hosting. The best Utica can do is having Night Ranger play on their opening night lol, Utica-Rome even mentioned in the same remarks as Albany is a farce. We used to do rapid insertion training in nearby Rome in the 1990s, we warned our men going in for the first time, "we are heading into the gateway of the rustbelt, the city only known for its sin, Sin City of the northeast!".. It's great the few fans love the Comets but the town has not much else to offer. A fan base of 3000 (false claims every game is a sellout on the AHL box scores even before the games have started) won't lure a team there anymore then Glen's Falls, Albany, Manchester, or Worcester. Those towns look major league compared to Utica and its Muni Aud....Sorry but your perception is one thing, and the perception of others is their prerogative. Is Utica ever going to beat Albany lol? Fans there are still bent over the Devils deciding to leave Utica and sign an affiliation with the Capital District Islanders franchise, Utica needs to get over it.


----------



## Clinton Comets EHL

Nightsquad said:


> OMG lol please stop, your making me laugh. While the Devils are not supported well the River Rats of the 1990s averaged anywhere from 4500 to 6000 fans per game until the team's stopped making the playoffs in over a decade. A Rangers affiliation is what the hockey fans there want, otherwise they will support the solid NCAA DI teams at Union or RPI.
> 
> Calling Albany's arena a dump, as compared to Utica's Municipal Auditorium. The tiny building has historic value yes but there isn't enough of the few public funds to make it better then the Albany arena, no way lol apples to oranges. Isn't Albany's arena set to embark of a 15 million renovation project in time for next season? How many events even come to Utica other then hockey? Albany hosts NCAA DI basketball, arena MX, Trans Siberian Orchestra, Ringling Brothers circus, and not to mention major concerts that Utica will never even dream of hosting. The best Utica can do is having Night Ranger play on their opening night lol, Utica-Rome even mentioned in the same remarks as Albany is a farce. We used to do rapid insertion training in nearby Rome in the 1990s, we warned our men going in for the first time, "we are heading into the gateway of the rustbelt, the city only known for its sin, Sin City of the northeast!".. It's great the few fans love the Comets but the town has not much else to offer. A fan base of 3000 (false claims every game is a sellout on the AHL box scores even before the games have started) won't lure a team there anymore then Glen's Falls, Albany, Manchester, or Worcester. Those towns look major league compared to Utica and its Muni Aud....Sorry but your perception is one thing, and the perception of others is their prerogative. Is Utica ever going to beat Albany lol? Fans there are still bent over the Devils deciding to leave Utica and sign an affiliation with the Capital District Islanders franchise, Utica needs to get over it.




Say what you want, Albany isn't a hockey town. You must know what 4500 looks like in that concrete box. I'd entertain Utica, Glens Falls, Manchester, Cornwall, Norfolk, Lowell, Trenton, Erie or any city anywhere ahead of Albany.

The Devils left 23 years ago. You don't know what you are talking about, as usual.


----------



## zetajerk

6768clintoncomets575 said:


> Say what you want, Albany isn't a hockey town. You must know what 4500 looks like in that concrete box. I'd entertain Utica, Glens Falls, Manchester, Cornwall, Norfolk, Lowell, Trenton, Erie or any city anywhere ahead of Albany.
> 
> The Devils left 23 years ago. You don't know what you are talking about, as usual.




lol, mad about that home and home last week? 

Did Albany steal your lunch money as a kid?


----------



## Canucks21

Can we stop talking about Utica and Albany we all know no AHL teams will move


----------



## Nightsquad

zetastrike said:


> lol, mad about that home and home last week?
> 
> Did Albany steal your lunch money as a kid?




Lol I know, the Utica fans get so twisted. They have been so ticked at Albany for losing the Devils. If you had up their average attendance from when they were Devils affiliated through this season they average roughly 3000 so not exactly an every game sellout. When they hosted the CoHl and then UHL they never barely put more then 3K in the building, now all the sudden they are gods gift to the AHL. Utica has not even been battle tested like Albany. Albany can still put a loyal 3000 fans in the building even after only having hosted a playoff caliber team only but a few times in over a decade. Albany has the AHL, and two nearby strong DI programs in Union and RPI both of which are 20 minutes or less playing on mostly the same nights Albany is playing at home. DIII Pioneers, wow that's big college hockey, who they play schools like Elmira or Hobart lol???? Meanwhile Albany's local college teams are knocking off Vermont, Boston College, Minnesota, Colorado. Unlike Utica Albany's AHL team doesn't share an arena so they have to compete with hockey fans when both Union and RPI are playing at home. Of course Utica fans won't acknowledge when Union and RPI play in downtown Albany 10,000 will pack the house, Albany is far from a dead hockey town... If AHL hockey didn't compete with two strong college programs in the same market Albany might be averaging the 6000 fans it once did, especially as a Ranger affiliate. It's Clinton Comet who lacks any real unsterstanding of the dynamics involved with that crazy market. We probably won't ever see Utica get tested though, the Canucks will be outta there sooner then later so hopefully Utica can the Devils back, steal them from Albany with their superb location and outstanding facilties. I think the Shrine Circus is planning to put on a big show in Utica next spring lol. No worries Utica, Trevor Linden said no future plans to relocate are in the works lol. Reminds me of poor Adirondack, Manchester, no folks we aren't planning to go nowhere....Utica, take Devils while you can, free Albany up for the NY Rangers please lol. Just think, the Albany Rangers and Utica Devils, would make for the AHLs best rivalry outside of Caliafornia lol. We all know Utica wants to beat Albany at something 

Yew tea kah, yew tea kah, yew tea kah, yew tea kah, yew tea kah, gotta love the civic pride in the Mohawk Valley lol. Any snow up that way yet??


----------



## Clinton Comets EHL

Nightsquad said:


> Lol I know, the Utica fans get so twisted. They have been so ticked at Albany for losing the Devils. If you had up their average attendance from when they were Devils affiliated through this season they average roughly 3000 so not exactly an every game sellout. When they hosted the CoHl and then UHL they never barely put more then 3K in the building, now all the sudden they are gods gift to the AHL. Utica has not even been battle tested like Albany. Albany can still put a loyal 3000 fans in the building even after only having hosted a playoff caliber team only but a few times in over a decade. Albany has the AHL, and two nearby strong DI programs in Union and RPI both of which are 20 minutes or less playing on mostly the same nights Albany is playing at home. DIII Pioneers, wow that's big college hockey, who they play schools like Elmira or Hobart lol???? Meanwhile Albany's local college teams are knocking off Vermont, Boston College, Minnesota, Colorado. Unlike Utica Albany's AHL team doesn't share an arena so they have to compete with hockey fans when both Union and RPI are playing at home. Of course Utica fans won't acknowledge when Union and RPI play in downtown Albany 10,000 will pack the house, Albany is far from a dead hockey town... If AHL hockey didn't compete with two strong college programs in the same market Albany might be averaging the 6000 fans it once did, especially as a Ranger affiliate. It's Clinton Comet who lacks any real unsterstanding of the dynamics involved with that crazy market. We probably won't ever see Utica get tested though, the Canucks will be outta there sooner then later so hopefully Utica can the Devils back, steal them from Albany with their superb location and outstanding facilties. I think the Shrine Circus is planning to put on a big show in Utica next spring lol. No worries Utica, Trevor Linden said no future plans to relocate are in the works lol. Reminds me of poor Adirondack, Manchester, no folks we aren't planning to go nowhere....Utica, take Devils while you can, free Albany up for the NY Rangers please lol. Just think, the Albany Rangers and Utica Devils, would make for the AHLs best rivalry outside of Caliafornia lol. We all know Utica wants to beat Albany at something
> 
> Yew tea kah, yew tea kah, yew tea kah, yew tea kah, yew tea kah, gotta love the civic pride in the Mohawk Valley lol. Any snow up that way yet??




You have a lot of anger in you besides having NO IDEA what you are talking about. Albany hardly supports 2 D1 college teams...the Rangers are never going there. You brought up Utica, all I said was I doubt the Rangers are going there. Say what you want, the Canucks will go at some point and the Rangers are likely to end of up here.

The UHL never sniffed 3k per game except for inflated attendance the prowlers last full season.

Albany hockey will never average 6000 again...and it is a known fact that when people had to start PAYING for tickets, they get down to the 2000 range, which is really the amount of people in the building. Guess you like watching practice 38 times a year.

No one is discussing the Devils beating the Comets every game. Who cares? Those things always turn around and fluctuate back and forth....talking about the long term viability as a franchise market. Albany doesn't have it. maybe Utica doesn't either. Maybe no NE city does. 

Foolish statement, Albany is Rangers country....where in NYS wouldn't? Or most of CT or NJ. Don't get your hopes up. TUC will be silent soon.


----------



## Clinton Comets EHL

zetastrike said:


> lol, mad about that home and home last week?
> 
> Did Albany steal your lunch money as a kid?




Yep. But I recovered. No one is discussing the games.


----------



## zetajerk

6768clintoncomets575 said:


> *You have a lot of anger in you besides having NO IDEA what you are talking about. **Albany hardly supports 2 D1 college teams*...*the Rangers are never going there. You brought up Utica, all I said was I doubt the Rangers are going there. Say what you want, the Canucks will go at some point and the Rangers are likely to end of up here.*
> 
> The UHL never sniffed 3k per game except for inflated attendance the prowlers last full season.
> 
> *Albany hockey will never average 6000 again...and it is a known fact that when people had to start PAYING for tickets, they get down to the 2000 range, which is really the amount of people in the building. Guess you like watching practice 38 times a year.*
> 
> No one is discussing the Devils beating the Comets every game. Who cares? Those things always turn around and fluctuate back and forth...*.talking about the long term viability as a franchise market. Albany doesn't have it.* maybe Utica doesn't either. Maybe no NE city does.
> 
> Foolish statement, Albany is Rangers country....where in NYS wouldn't? Or most of CT or NJ. Don't get your hopes up. TUC will be silent soon.




Wow, someone struck a nerve. Talk about anger. The bolded parts are laughable and show a huge lack of self awareness. You know absolutely nothing about Albany. Have you ever been to a D1 hockey game there? Clearly not, as I have.

Why on earth would the Rangers ever go to Utica? All it has to offer is falsely reported sellouts of 3800. No facilities, poor location. No parent club cares if their farm team sells out. Albany trumps Utica in every possible category, including fan support for a Rangers affiliate. Albany will never average 6000, Mr Crystal Ball? Neither will Utica. Care to provide a source about people not paying for tickets? *Utica has no long term viability.* You got the AHL by freak accident. The Canucks had nowhere to go. You're only one handshake away from becoming Adirondack. 

Shame on you for ripping on a market you don't know a lick about because you know it's far more likely to have an AHL future than yours.

Geez, you come across as bitter.


----------



## Cacciaguida

what about Thunder Bay?

Utica would be a fine ECHL market.


----------



## Nightsquad

zetastrike said:


> Wow, someone struck a nerve. Talk about anger. The bolded parts are laughable and show a huge lack of self awareness. You know absolutely nothing about Albany. Have you ever been to a D1 hockey game there? Clearly not, as I have.
> 
> Why on earth would the Rangers ever go to Utica? All it has to offer is falsely reported sellouts of 3800. No facilities, poor location. No parent club cares if their farm team sells out. Albany trumps Utica in every possible category, including fan support for a Rangers affiliate. Albany will never average 6000, Mr Crystal Ball? Neither will Utica. Care to provide a source about people not paying for tickets? *Utica has no long term viability.* You got the AHL by freak accident. The Canucks had nowhere to go. You're only one handshake away from becoming Adirondack.
> 
> Shame on you for ripping on a market you don't know a lick about because you know it's far more likely to have an AHL future than yours.
> 
> Geez, you come across as bitter.




Excellent post, guess I did strike a nerve and exposed yet another Utica's fan anger. Ripping on to Albany as if the fans haven't been beaten down for years. Utica wouldn't even put 3000 fans in their building had the Devils put playoff-less losing teams in their barn (no pun intended) for over a decade. The Albany area barely supports NCAA hockey, give me a break. Union always fills there building, it only seats just over 2000 anyway. RPI is doing well, they are averaging anywhere to 3000 to 4000 at home, then you have often on the same night either the Devils playing at home or Adirondack (yes Adirondack like it or not is in Albany's market). That amounts to anywhere from 6000 to 10000 fans on many given weekend nights in the greater Albany NY area attending hockey. While one certain franchise is having troubles winning back its fanbase over neglect of many years and damaged cause, hockey in the area is alive and well. While the Auditorium is nostalgic, asserting Albany's arena as a dump is simply a matter of opinion. We all know the opinion of concert and event promoters who bypass even larger cities like Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Springfield, and Hartford in favor of performing in Albany NY. Notice how Utica wasn't even mentioned. I never said the Rangers AHL club was landing in Albany, I said there are strong indicators there was interest. When Albany hosted the Rangers pre season game a few years back where it was actually hosted by the NY Rangers in the Devils minor league building, the Devils were shocked that on a Wednesday night 9000 fans showed up paying anywhere from $30 to $75 a ticket, 85% of the fans in attendance were wearing Ranger sweaters, the Devils were furious! Any, yea those elite Utica fans pumping their chests, mighty mighty Utica. I admire their admiration for their club, just like Ned said "ahhh those poor old folks, they gotta have something to cheer about" in Utica lol. Another thing is, Albany cannot go dark even if the Devils pull out. The arena is a county owned public building, the revenue generated by concerts is so strong it has an advantage in terms of lease agreements. The Devils organization was given a lease it was too hard to refuse. With all the suites in the TUC Arena just hosting concerts and basketball won't cut it, the arena has to host a certain number of events so the pressure is on the arena to have another team call the building home, total advantage for the fans that do enjoy and support hockey in the building. If the Devils leave they will likely have done so to either play their home games down in Newark or given one heck of a competitive offer somewhere else. Utica better get its pen out and start crunching numbers lol!


----------



## JDogindy

Cacciaguida said:


> what about Thunder Bay?
> 
> Utica would be a fine ECHL market.




Saying "Utica" and "ECHL" is going to incur the wrath of Clintoncomets. He HATES the ECHL.


----------



## Baronsfan

Hurricane Ron said:


> 66ers played at the Cox Business Center (former Assembly Center) and Spirit Bank Arena. They could have also played at the Fairgrounds Arena in Tulsa. The move, as reported by local media, had nothing to do with the closure of Spirit Bank arena. If you have insider information that the closure of Spirt Bank Arena was the reason, then you know more than was reported locally. Again, even with Spirit Bank Arena closing, there were two other viable arenas where the team could play. That being said, don't believe the team averaged 1000 fans. Most of that reason is because basketball fans in the Tulsa area would rather drive down the turnpike and watch the Thunder, or go to Norman or Stillwater or stay in Tulsa and watch college hoops. Not much market for watching D-League hoops when the other options are available. Tulsa Shock had no impact on 66ers, as the seasons don't even overlap.
> 
> If 3000 is viable for an ECHL team, I have no doubt that OKC could draw that, and possibly more, with the return of regional rivals. I'm sure hockey fans in OKC would look forward to seeing teams from Tulsa, Wichita and Allen over their previous nearest rivals in Cedar Park and San Antonio. That being said, Edmonton provided the Barons with a quality AHL team, and they didn't draw enough to remain in the league. And while I recognize the move to California by the AHL, I believe if OKC had drawn enough fans, this wasn't a team that would have moved. Have to believe its not any easier getting a player from Bakersfield to Edmonton than it was from OKC.
> 
> The other fact is that OKC has a long history of teams not surviving there. Original Blazers lost teams in 1972 and 1977. They also lost the Stars in 1983, and the Blazers again in 2009.
> 
> That being said, a team in OKC in the ECHL would be great geographically for the teams in the Central Division. Whether it happens or not, remains to be seen.




I imagine it's a lot easier to get from California to Alberta. Mainly due to the fact in OKC you had to catch connecting flights, in Cali you fly directly to YEG I'm pretty sure. 

Not only that, but a big advantage to the west is less time spent traveling and more practice/gym time for prospects. In OKC you had lots of travel on bus to Texas, or flying to Charlotte/Milwaukee etc. whereas Bakersfield has some months where they only leave the state once or twice the entire month.


----------



## Canucks21

Baronsfan said:


> I imagine it's a lot easier to get from California to Alberta. Mainly due to the fact in OKC you had to catch connecting flights, in Cali you fly directly to YEG I'm pretty sure.




And Since there the Oilers are in the same division then the 3 California teams and the Coyotes its easier to recall someone when on the road


----------



## Hoodaha

Baronsfan said:


> I imagine it's a lot easier to get from California to Alberta. Mainly due to the fact in OKC you had to catch connecting flights, in Cali you fly directly to YEG I'm pretty sure.
> 
> Not only that, but a big advantage to the west is less time spent traveling and more practice/gym time for prospects. In OKC you had lots of travel on bus to Texas, or flying to Charlotte/Milwaukee etc. whereas Bakersfield has some months where they only leave the state once or twice the entire month.




You nailed it. Also, in California, if you have to make a connection, there are multiple airports within a two hour drive: Bakersfield, Fresno, LAX, Burbank, Long Beach, John Wayne (Orange County). This makes you much more likely to make a connection. Also, Bakersfield is near Oilers conference rivals: LA, San Jose, and Anaheim. So road call ups are easy in many instances.


----------



## Hurricane Ron

If you'd check out the airline websites, you'll find that there are no direct flights from Bakersfield to Edmonton, nor are their direct flights from OKC to Edmonton. However, there are more flights available out of the OKC airport to get to Edmonton, than there are out of Bakersfield. That was the point of that sentence in my previous post. Its easier to get a player to Edmonton from OKC than it is from Bakersfield. No disrespect intended for anyone from Bakersfield, OKC just has a bigger airport.

I hadn't expected one sentence from my earlier post to regarding OKC's potential as an ECHL location to generate so much discussion regarding the movement of players from one city to another.


----------



## Hoodaha

Hurricane Ron said:


> If you'd check out the airline websites, you'll find that there are no direct flights from Bakersfield to Edmonton, nor are their direct flights from OKC to Edmonton. However, there are more flights available out of the OKC airport to get to Edmonton, than there are out of Bakersfield. That was the point of that sentence in my previous post. Its easier to get a player to Edmonton from OKC than it is from Bakersfield. No disrespect intended for anyone from Bakersfield, OKC just has a bigger airport.
> 
> I hadn't expected one sentence from my earlier post to regarding OKC's potential as an ECHL location to generate so much discussion regarding the movement of players from one city to another.




Direct flights from LAX, an hour and a half away.


----------



## Hurricane Ron

Hoodaha said:


> Direct flights from LAX, an hour and a half away.




So, you expect the players in Bakersfield to drive to LAX to make the connection to Edmonton? REALLY?

Or do you think they'll take Greyhound over to LA?

Sometimes, I just shake my head at the posts that are made on this site. 

Its not any easier to get from Bakersfield to Edmonton, than it is from OKC.


----------



## Hoodaha

Hurricane Ron said:


> So, you expect the players in Bakersfield to drive to LAX to make the connection to Edmonton? REALLY?
> 
> Or do you think they'll take Greyhound over to LA?
> 
> Sometimes, I just shake my head at the posts that are made on this site.
> 
> Its not any easier to get from Bakersfield to Edmonton, than it is from OKC.




Usually someone gives them a ride, not greyhound. Or the fly Bakersfield to LAX to Edmonton. I'm not saying it's much better than from OKC, but it is marginally better. It's much better when you consider poximity to 3 division rivals.


----------



## ADKthunderFan34

Why not move Albany to Trenton and put ECHL back up in Albany. Also, it would be nice to see a team back in Atlantic City.


----------



## Neill99

I would like like to see in Albuquerque NM triple A baseball does really well.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Hopefully the team would get named after a Breaking Bad reference lol


----------



## HisIceness

There are two cities that I would love to see make a return to the ECHL.

1) Greensboro. Currently there is no team in the Piedmont Triad and Greensboro hasn't had a team since 2004, they also have the more suitable arena as the Twin City Cyclones of the SPHL played at Winston-Salems Lawerence Joel Coliseum Annex which was just not a winner whatsoever. 

Since the Checkers became the 'Canes AHL affiliate I've often thought that Greensboro would be a great choice for the Canes ECHL team should the Everblades move or want to go with another team. Plus, the Hurricanes really need more support outside the Triangle and while a Greensboro-based team won't have quite the impact that Charlotte has, it would still help.

Greensboro already has the Greensboro Coliseum which has been the home of previous Hockey teams including the Hurricanes temporary stay in the late 90's while PNC Arena was under construction. However scheduling conflicts will arise since UNC-Greensboro basketball calls the arena home, along with concerts and Mens and Womens NCAA/ACC tournaments. Also, are folks in the Triad eager for another Hockey team? Not sure but the area is growing and there is history of the game dating back to the 50's. I think in a few years time it's at least looking into.

2) Columbia, SC. This one's kind of a personal favorite. I hated to see the Inferno not get their arena built and I thought it was petty of USCs athletic director not allowing use of the Colonial Life Arena to the team even though the facility was built with Hockey in mind. Plus it would complete the trifecta of 3 teams in the Palmetto States 3 largest metros. This one is very unlikely, but who knows.


----------



## BladesFan10

HisIceness said:


> There are two cities that I would love to see make a return to the ECHL.
> 
> 1) Greensboro. Currently there is no team in the Piedmont Triad and Greensboro hasn't had a team since 2004, they also have the more suitable arena as the Twin City Cyclones of the SPHL played at Winston-Salems Lawerence Joel Coliseum Annex which was just not a winner whatsoever.
> 
> Since the Checkers became the 'Canes AHL affiliate I've often thought that Greensboro would be a great choice for the Canes ECHL team should the Everblades move or want to go with another team. Plus, the Hurricanes really need more support outside the Triangle and while a Greensboro-based team won't have quite the impact that Charlotte has, it would still help.
> 
> Greensboro already has the Greensboro Coliseum which has been the home of previous Hockey teams including the Hurricanes temporary stay in the late 90's while PNC Arena was under construction. However scheduling conflicts will arise since UNC-Greensboro basketball calls the arena home, along with concerts and Mens and Womens NCAA/ACC tournaments. Also, are folks in the Triad eager for another Hockey team? Not sure but the area is growing and there is history of the game dating back to the 50's. I think in a few years time it's at least looking into.
> 
> 2) Columbia, SC. This one's kind of a personal favorite. I hated to see the Inferno not get their arena built and I thought it was petty of USCs athletic director not allowing use of the Colonial Life Arena to the team even though the facility was built with Hockey in mind. Plus it would complete the trifecta of 3 teams in the Palmetto States 3 largest metros. This one is very unlikely, but who knows.




Top part would almost certainly not happen till Blades are sold as the team and Germain Arena are owned by Karmanos.


----------



## JungleJON

You might see more ECHL teams becoming homes for AHL teams.
Salt Lake City
Colorado
Idaho
Orlando
Florida
Atlanta

Remember there are reports that two ECHL franchises are up for sale.

Portland is looking to purchase a franchise and if in the next year we see Utica and Binghamton lose their AHL teams, you might have more of a NorthEast feel to the ECHL.

Greensboro, Louisville, Richmond, would be all good pick ups.

Lots of rumors floating around - will be fun to see what all takes place.


----------



## Cacciaguida

St. John's is also looking for an opening with Montreal moving to Laval next season.

So another market could hop on the temporary affiliate-it-wit the Ice Caps or they could drop down to the ECHL. 


I mean if Alaska can work why not St John's?


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

JungleJON said:


> You might see more ECHL teams becoming homes for AHL teams.
> Salt Lake City
> Colorado
> Idaho
> Orlando
> Florida
> Atlanta
> 
> Remember there are reports that two ECHL franchises are up for sale.
> 
> Portland is looking to purchase a franchise and if in the next year we see Utica and Binghamton lose their AHL teams, you might have more of a NorthEast feel to the ECHL.
> 
> Greensboro, Louisville, Richmond, would be all good pick ups.
> 
> Lots of rumors floating around - will be fun to see what all takes place.




Who is for sale? I saw a report denying the mallards ate for sale but that a Midwest team apparently is. I think Elmira is on the block but I've heard they may have found someone. But I've also heard the team may not be up for sale but I don't know which one to believe. I know the arena is for sure up for sale though.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Bthatch34 said:


> Why not move Albany to Trenton and put ECHL back up in Albany. Also, it would be nice to see a team back in Atlantic City.




Atlantic City is too poor now. Maybe back when they had the Trumpsinos.


----------



## crimsonace

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Who is for sale? I saw a report denying the mallards ate for sale but that a Midwest team apparently is. I think Elmira is on the block but I've heard they may have found someone. But I've also heard the team may not be up for sale but I don't know which one to believe. I know the arena is for sure up for sale though.




That Midwest team is very maybe possibly Evansville.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

crimsonace said:


> That Midwest team is very maybe possibly Evansville.




They were supposed to move to Owensboro. That's obviously not gunna occur it appears. I'm surprised Geary is still paying a fee on them instead of just folding them. Not sure where the franchise would be targeting.


----------



## crimsonace

Sports Enthusiast said:


> They were supposed to move to Owensboro. That's obviously not gunna occur it appears. I'm surprised Geary is still paying a fee on them instead of just folding them. Not sure where the franchise would be targeting.




A friend who works in media in southwest Indiana told me today that the Owensboro arena is not happening and Geary is looking to relocate/sell the franchise. 

An existing franchise that can be purchased and moved is an asset that has value. A folded franchise is not. The annual ECHL dues are a pittance compared to the value of the franchise - he can sell it and recoup the money he spent on dues. Portland, obviously, is looking to buy an existing team. This is an obvious candidate to be that one.


----------



## JDogindy

Sports Enthusiast said:


> They were supposed to move to Owensboro. That's obviously not gunna occur it appears. I'm surprised Geary is still paying a fee on them instead of just folding them. Not sure where the franchise would be targeting.




I can see a team being put in Owensboro (not the ECHL, but maybe SPHL or even one of the junior developmental leagues) IF that venue gets the update to end all updates. But it most likely won't be Evansville. That bridge is burned, the city has a new team, and it's highly unlikely Geary will advance towards his ideal plan.

Anyway, based upon that news, the ECHL might reach the 31 team threshold they want considering we have Worcester, Portland, and perhaps Jacksonville or, heaven forbid, Prescott Valley to come around.


----------



## Captain Crash

crimsonace said:


> A friend who works in media in southwest Indiana told me today that the Owensboro arena is not happening and Geary is looking to relocate/sell the franchise.
> 
> An existing franchise that can be purchased and moved is an asset that has value. A folded franchise is not. The annual ECHL dues are a pittance compared to the value of the franchise - he can sell it and recoup the money he spent on dues. Portland, obviously, is looking to buy an existing team. This is an obvious candidate to be that one.




Tell your friend bravo.

http://www.14news.com/story/32552699/owensboro-will-not-build-new-arena-for-icemen


> Owensboro will not be building a new arena to house the IceMen.
> 
> City officials estimated the arena, which would have been built on Highway 54, would have cost around $20-25 million.
> 
> The funding for the new arena would be part of the Highway 54 TIF money, but city officials say they have decided not to move forward with the project after conducting a feasibility study.
> 
> [PREVIOUS: IceMen will not play 2016 season]
> 
> City officials say they sent a letter to the IceMen late this past spring informing the organization of their decision. They tell us the team is now exploring other options including renovating the Owensboro Sportscenter.
> 
> We're told plans for a restaurant with offtrack betting in downtown Owensboro will still be moving forward.
> 
> This story will be updated.
> 
> Follow us online at 14NEWS.com and on Twitter. Text NEWSAPP to 51414 or click here to download our 14 News mobile app to get the latest headlines from around the Tri-State.


----------



## JDogindy

Welp, Geary boned.

He will likely sell the team to the Portland investors.


----------



## crimsonace

JDogindy said:


> Welp, Geary boned.
> 
> He will likely sell the team to the Portland investors.




To me, the "no new arena" thing was the out he needed. From the beginning, it looked like Geary was trying to bluff Evansville into re-doing the Ford Center lease, and with Owensboro being nearby, it would prevent another ECHL team from moving there. Once Evansville called his bluff with the SPHL, he had a team, but no place to play. This allows him to save face, telling the folks of Owensboro he tried, while keeping the value of his asset high. 

Meanwhile, I think we have the franchise that will become the Portland Pirates.


----------



## Cacciaguida

it'll be nice to have the Pirates back


----------



## BladesFan10

Captain Crash said:


> Tell your friend bravo.
> 
> http://www.14news.com/story/32552699/owensboro-will-not-build-new-arena-for-icemen




Said it earlier in the offseason that Owensboro was going to fall apart, didn't think it would be this soon though. As far as what I've heard down here, Jacksonville/Another southern market is a hot favorite or another team in Evansville with the league believing that the SPHL's deal there will break that team within a year or two.


----------



## Panic at the Back

BladesFan10 said:


> Said it earlier in the offseason that Owensboro was going to fall apart, didn't think it would be this soon though. As far as what I've heard down here, Jacksonville/Another southern market is a hot favorite or another team in Evansville with the league believing that the SPHL's deal there will break that team within a year or two.




What other southern market? Birmingham?


----------



## JungleJON

There will probably be as much movement in the ECHL as there will be in the AHL.
Once Las Vegas decides on their AHL affiliate (could be Utah) and when Ottawa, Colorado and Vancouver move their AHL affiliates as well. It should open up some cities in the Northeast.

We could have Portland, Binghamton and Utica in the ECHL, along with Jacksonville and Prescott Valley. Oklahoma City is an outside possibility. A few other cities will leave (fold or be sold).

In a few years, you could see the western teams disappear from the ECHL, if all that are left is Idaho and Alaska.


----------



## BladesFan10

Panic at the Back said:


> What other southern market? Birmingham?




I've heard anywhere from Greensboro, Pensacola, and though not another southern market, Louisville. Also heard recently that the Owensboro franchise could either land back in Evansville, Oklahoma City, or even Oregon with the latter two being used to add another team for the central and west parts of the league.

Don't know how much to put into Oregon rumor, but i'm fairly confident on the Evansville, OKC, and Louisville rumors being somewhat true. Whether that results in any real movement, I don't know.


----------



## crimsonace

BladesFan10 said:


> I've heard anywhere from Greensboro, Pensacola, and though not another southern market, Louisville. Also heard recently that the Owensboro franchise could either land back in Evansville, Oklahoma City, or even Oregon with the latter two being used to add another team for the central and west parts of the league.
> 
> Don't know how much to put into Oregon rumor, but i'm fairly confident on the Evansville, OKC, and Louisville rumors being somewhat true. Whether that results in any real movement, I don't know.




Louisville has been thrown around as a possibility for some time - it's probably the northernmost decent-sized city without hockey, but where? 

2 viable arenas at the Fairgrounds - Freedom Hall & Broadbent - but both are old & I'm not sure either one has ice anymore. I've heard of longtime renovations to the downtown Louisville Gardens, but I'm not sure where those stand or if they're anywhere near completion. The KFC Yum Center where UofL plays basketball is a great, modern arena, but the hockey team would have to play backseat to both UL men's & women's hoops for much of the season.


----------



## mk80

I think the ECHL at this point will look to secure the vacancies in the north east left behind by the AHL for now, unless anything great opens up. There's rumblings that Binghamton is moving north of the border so that could be another spot to look at.


----------



## crimsonace

mk80 said:


> I think the ECHL at this point will look to secure the vacancies in the north east left behind by the AHL for now, unless anything great opens up. There's rumblings that Binghamton is moving north of the border so that could be another spot to look at.




Part of Bingo's lease with the Sens (which will have a year left when they move to Belleville next year) is that Ottawa has to find another AHL team to replace the B-Sens. Expectation is that it'll likely be Albany or Hartford. 

Utica is a market that might be of interest to the ECHL when the inevitable Comets to the PNW move happens.


----------



## GreenHornet

BladesFan10 said:


> I've heard anywhere from Greensboro, Pensacola, and though not another southern market, Louisville. Also heard recently that the Owensboro franchise could either land back in Evansville, Oklahoma City, or even Oregon with the latter two being used to add another team for the central and west parts of the league.
> 
> Don't know how much to put into Oregon rumor, but i'm fairly confident on the Evansville, OKC, and Louisville rumors being somewhat true. Whether that results in any real movement, I don't know.




Starting to hear rumblings about a new team possibly popping up in New Orleans, though I don't know if that would be ECHL or SPHL. There's also the little question of where such a team would play. Can't see the Pelicans willing to share their arena, and I'm not sure what renovations are still needed to make the Municipal Auditorium viable.


----------



## CrazyEddie20

GreenHornet said:


> Starting to hear rumblings about a new team possibly popping up in New Orleans, though I don't know if that would be ECHL or SPHL. There's also the little question of where such a team would play. Can't see the Pelicans willing to share their arena, and I'm not sure what renovations are still needed to make the Municipal Auditorium viable.




The Pelicans will not share the arena - it's written into their lease.

The Morris F.X. Jeffs Auditorium is unusable and needs a complete renovation. It's been untouched since Katrina. 

There are no other buildings with ice plants in New Orleans, so good luck with that.


----------



## BigMac1212

If you're looking at Louisiana, Shreveport/Bossier City has a hockey arena that is lacking a tenant.


----------



## Captain Crash

BigMac1212 said:


> If you're looking at Louisiana, Shreveport/Bossier City has a hockey arena that is lacking a tenant.




They are now in the NAHL.


----------



## RedMenace

Didn't see this posted, and it's a couple of weeks old at this point, but it seems the Triad area of North Carolina is getting another shot:

http://www.journalnow.com/sports/pr...cle_b121e083-928d-55b6-ae08-56041d61e985.html

Also from the FHL website:

http://www.federalhockey.com/news/fhl-formally-approves-expansion-to-winston-salem-n

What's the quality level of the FHL - better or worse than the SPHL?


----------



## ckg927

RedMenace said:


> Didn't see this posted, and it's a couple of weeks old at this point, but it seems the Triad area of North Carolina is getting another shot:
> 
> http://www.journalnow.com/sports/pr...cle_b121e083-928d-55b6-ae08-56041d61e985.html
> 
> Also from the FHL website:
> 
> http://www.federalhockey.com/news/fhl-formally-approves-expansion-to-winston-salem-n
> 
> What's the quality level of the FHL - better or worse than the SPHL?




Worse. I'd say: Go with the SPHL. Aside from the quality of play(which, from all indications, the SPHL is a bit better than the FHL), the SPHL's financial footing(league and teams)is a LOT better.


----------



## royals119

ckg927 said:


> Worse. I'd say: Go with the SPHL. Aside from the quality of play(which, from all indications, the SPHL is a bit better than the FHL), the SPHL's financial footing(league and teams)is a LOT better.



They tried it already, folded after one season. 



> The LJVM Coliseum Annex has hosted minor professional hockey organizations since opening in 1989, most recently the Twin City Cyclones in the Southern Professional Hockey League (SPHL) during the 2006-07 season


----------



## JDogindy

royals119 said:


> They tried it already, folded after one season.




Well... why not try again?

They'd be closer to opponents in the SPHL than they would the FHL. Plus, the SPHL the last team played in was different than the league today.


----------



## royals119

JDogindy said:


> Well... why not try again?
> 
> They'd be closer to opponents in the SPHL than they would the FHL. Plus, the SPHL the last team played in was different than the league today.



I would guess the SPHL was too expensive, or wouldn't approve this ownership group. Based on their history the FHL will put a team almost anywhere without really vetting the ownership to make sure they have the money and resources to make it a success. I don't know the numbers, but an FHL expansion team has to be cheaper and easier to establish than an SPHL team, and cheaper to operate.

A quick wikipedia search reveals the following Winston-Salem hockey history: 
The SHL Polar Twins lasted from 73-77 and folded along with the league.
The ACHL Thunderbirds were around from 81-87 when the league folded
The Thunderbirds then played in the AAHL for the 87-88 season, but that league also folded.
The ECHL Thunderbirds lasted from 88-92
The SHL Mammoths played in 95-96 after which the team and league folded.
The UHL Icehawks lasted from 97-99 before relocating to Glens Falls
The ACHL Parrots relocated from Jacksonville FL to W-S in 2002 mid season and folded at the end of the year, along with the league
The SEHL Thunderbirds played in W-S in 03-04, the team and league folded after one season.
The aforementioned SPHL Polar Twins played in one season 04-05. 

If I wanted to start a hockey team and didn't care where I put it, I'd pick somewhere else based on that history, and if I lived in Winston-Salem I probably wouldn't be interested in owning a hockey team after living through all that.


----------



## RedMenace

royals119 said:


> I would guess the SPHL was too expensive, or wouldn't approve this ownership group. Based on their history the FHL will put a team almost anywhere without really vetting the ownership to make sure they have the money and resources to make it a success. I don't know the numbers, but an FHL expansion team has to be cheaper and easier to establish than an SPHL team, and cheaper to operate.
> 
> A quick wikipedia search reveals the following Winston-Salem hockey history:
> The SHL Polar Twins lasted from 73-77 and folded along with the league.
> The ACHL Thunderbirds were around from 81-87 when the league folded
> The Thunderbirds then played in the AAHL for the 87-88 season, but that league also folded.
> The ECHL Thunderbirds lasted from 88-92
> The SHL Mammoths played in 95-96 after which the team and league folded.
> The UHL Icehawks lasted from 97-99 before relocating to Glens Falls
> The ACHL Parrots relocated from Jacksonville FL to W-S in 2002 mid season and folded at the end of the year, along with the league
> The SEHL Thunderbirds played in W-S in 03-04, the team and league folded after one season.
> The aforementioned SPHL Polar Twins played in one season 04-05.
> 
> If I wanted to start a hockey team and didn't care where I put it, I'd pick somewhere else based on that history, and if I lived in Winston-Salem I probably wouldn't be interested in owning a hockey team after living through all that.




Having grown up in the youth hockey program here, it's been difficult to be sure; despite the number of teams to come through, to say this isn't a strong professional hockey market isn't an understatement.

Then again, it may just be lack of advertising. I can count on zero hands how many spots I heard or saw for professional hockey in Winston-Salem post-Thunderbirds.


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## Canucks21

royals119 said:


> I would guess the SPHL was too expensive, or wouldn't approve this ownership group. Based on their history the FHL will put a team almost anywhere without really vetting the ownership to make sure they have the money and resources to make it a success. I don't know the numbers, but an FHL expansion team has to be cheaper and easier to establish than an SPHL team, and cheaper to operate.
> 
> A quick wikipedia search reveals the following Winston-Salem hockey history:
> The SHL Polar Twins lasted from 73-77 and folded along with the league.
> The ACHL Thunderbirds were around from 81-87 when the league folded
> The Thunderbirds then played in the AAHL for the 87-88 season, but that league also folded.
> The ECHL Thunderbirds lasted from 88-92
> The SHL Mammoths played in 95-96 after which the team and league folded.
> The UHL Icehawks lasted from 97-99 before relocating to Glens Falls
> The ACHL Parrots relocated from Jacksonville FL to W-S in 2002 mid season and folded at the end of the year, along with the league
> The SEHL Thunderbirds played in W-S in 03-04, the team and league folded after one season.
> The aforementioned SPHL Polar Twins played in one season 04-05.
> 
> If I wanted to start a hockey team and didn't care where I put it, I'd pick somewhere else based on that history, and if I lived in Winston-Salem I probably wouldn't be interested in owning a hockey team after living through all that.




Most of those folding were because the league went out of business if you take those out it doesnt have that bad of a history


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## SemireliableSource

And don't forget the Twin City Cyclones with the amazingly terrible marketing tagline of "We're not just blowing through town."


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## BigMac1212

FrancoRussianAlaskan said:


> And don't forget the Twin City Cyclones with the amazingly terrible marketing tagline of "We're not just blowing through town."




That can't be taken out of context.


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## JungleJON

From Oursportscentral.com
HOCKEY

ECHL: A group in Reno (NV) is trying to bring an ECHL expansion team to the city by the 2017-18 season and possibly have the team affiliated with the National Hockey League's Las Vegas expansion team, which starts play for the 2017-18 season. The group still needs to fund and complete renovations, including installation of a professional ice surface, for the Reno Events Center. A team called the Reno Renegades (1995-97) and then the Reno Rage (1997-98) played three seasons in the former West Coast Hockey League (WCHL). An individual purchased the rights to the dormant Reno WCHL team in 2000 and proposed a new WCHL team to be called the Reno Raiders. When the ECHL absorbed the WCHL prior to the 2003-04 season, it inherited the WCHL Reno expansion team. The inactive ECHL Reno expansion team kept up with league dues over the past ten-plus years, but was unable to build a new arena as planned and this past season was no longer listed a future ECHL market. The ECHL plans to review expansion applications later this month and a group in Jacksonville has also expressed interest.

A potential investor for a proposed 2017-18 ECHL expansion team in Portland (ME) has pulled out, so an expansion application will most likely not be available for consideration at the league meeting later this month. The group trying to bring an ECHL team to Portland, which recently lost its Portland Pirates American Hockey League team to Springfield (MA), will now consider purchasing an existing ECHL team for relocation, possibly in time for the 2017-18 season.


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## JDogindy

So the Reno group has finally gotten serious.


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## Cacciaguida

I like the name Reno Renegades. Could the Wranglers see a comeback like the Roadrunners?


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## CrazyEddie20

JDogindy said:


> So the Reno group has finally gotten serious.




No, it sounds like this is a new group.



> An individual purchased the rights to the dormant Reno WCHL team in 2000 and proposed a new WCHL team to be called the Reno Raiders. When the ECHL absorbed the WCHL prior to the 2003-04 season, it inherited the WCHL Reno expansion team. The inactive ECHL Reno expansion team kept up with league dues over the past ten-plus years, but was unable to build a new arena as planned and this past season was no longer listed a future ECHL market.




Although that was from unsourced garbage on OSC, so take it with a grain of salt.


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## JungleJON

CrazyEddie20 said:


> No, it sounds like this is a new group.
> 
> 
> 
> Although that was from unsourced garbage on OSC, so take it with a grain of salt.




You must have a bug up your butt for some reason - OSC is one of the better sites on minor league sports.


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## CrazyEddie20

JungleJON said:


> You must have a bug up your butt for some reason - OSC is one of the better sites on minor league sports.




No, without citing or quoting specific sources, they could be making it up.

Sorry I'm not a sucker who believes everything I read.

There's an old saying in journalism: "If your mom tells you she loves you, look into it further."


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## wildcat48

Godfrey Wood and Brad Church are still working toward getting something done for 2017-'18.... Here's a couple bullet points.
- They are in conversations with multiple people about being a majority investor.
- They already have people who have shown interest in being a minority investor.
- Wood and Church are looking for investors to put up $1.75 million.
- The group would want to begin selling tickets by Jan. 2017.
- They are looking to sell 1,500 season tickets.
- The plan is based off an expansion franchise. Purchasing an existing franchise for relocation may provide more time to acquire a team.

http://www.theforecaster.net/search-continues-for-lead-investor-for-portland-hockey-team/


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## 210

Why isn't Godfrey Wood the majority investor?


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## CrazyEddie20

210 said:


> Why isn't Godfrey Wood the majority investor?




Here's an educated guess: Wood now knows how the sausage is made. He knows that you can't really make money in minor league hockey, and he's not interesting in making a small pile of money out of his big pile of money.


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## 210

CrazyEddie20 said:


> Here's an educated guess: Wood now knows how the sausage is made. He knows that you can't really make money in minor league hockey, and he's not interesting in making a small pile of money out of his big pile of money.




Wood has known "how the sausage is made" for a very, very long time.


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## wildcat48

210 said:


> Why isn't Godfrey Wood the majority investor?



He doesn't want to be involved in the operation beyond the civic aspect of bringing a team back.


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## 210

wildcat48 said:


> He doesn't want to be involved in the operation beyond the civic aspect of bringing a team back.




Ahhh...makes sense.


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## crimsonace

wildcat48 said:


> Godfrey Wood and Brad Church are still working toward getting something done for 2017-'18.... Here's a couple bullet points.
> - The plan is based off an expansion franchise. Purchasing an existing franchise for relocation may provide more time to acquire a team.
> 
> http://www.theforecaster.net/search-continues-for-lead-investor-for-portland-hockey-team/




I always assumed this would become the Evansville team. Wonder if they aren't meeting Geary's price, or he still wants to hold onto the dormant franchise.


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## royals119

crimsonace said:


> I always assumed this would become the Evansville team. Wonder if they aren't meeting Geary's price, or he still wants to hold onto the dormant franchise.



There was another article that said the ECHL was proposing a "transfer fee" for purchasing an existing franchise which would make the total purchase price the same as buying an expansion team. At that point they went from discussing relocation to discussing expansion. 
Sounds like from this article that if they miss the deadline for an expansion franchise they could go the relocation route (i.e. Evansville) and still get it done in time for 17-18.


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## Canucks21

What happen with OKC didnt they wanted an ECHL expansion team?


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## crimsonace

Canucks21 said:


> What happen with OKC didnt they wanted an ECHL expansion team?




No viable place to play at the moment.


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## Royalsflagrunner77

crimsonace said:


> No viable place to play at the moment.




Does the arena were the thunder play have ice making capability .or more important would the thunder share.


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## 210

Royalsflagrunner77 said:


> Does the arena were the thunder play have ice making capability .or more important would the thunder share.




I believe the Chesapeake Energy Arena does have ice making ability, but even if it doesn't it's right across the street from the Cox Convention Center, which absolutely can host hockey.

EDit: The Blazers played at the Chesapeake Energy Arena, so they absolutely can host hockey there.


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## Royalsflagrunner77

I'm still waiting for the Rivermen to make a return to the E


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## Woo Hockey

crimsonace said:


> No viable place to play at the moment.




I believe they also had issues getting an ownership group to back bringing a team there.


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## jason2020

I could see a joint effort between Ottawa/Montreal and have the team in Laval.


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## JDogindy

jason2020 said:


> I could see a joint effort between Ottawa/Montreal and have the team in Laval.




Rocket de Laval exist.


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## jason2020

JDogindy said:


> Rocket de Laval exist.




Yes but to have a Echl team there as well would help both Mtl and Ottawa.


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## Captain Crash

jason2020 said:


> Yes but to have a Echl team there as well would help both Mtl and Ottawa.




A. Montreal is not going to place an AHL team and ECHL team in the same building. There is zero incentive to do so.

B. The ECHL stopped doing joint affiliations.


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## Agalloch

Now that Jacksonville and Worcester are coming for the 2017-18 season, becoming the 28th and 29th team, any other cities interested in taking the last spot (or maybe 2 last spots) ?

Elmira could be moving to North East like Albany/Portland.


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## royals119

Agalloch said:


> Now that Jacksonville and Worcester are coming for the 2017-18 season, becoming the 28th and 29th team, any other cities interested in taking the last spot (or maybe 2 last spots) ?
> 
> Elmira could be moving to North East like Albany/Portland.




i've seen a few social media posts where people from Elmira have said the local buyer is going to go ahead with the purchase. The city turning down the request for money toward the ice plant and the losses from this season is a slight hiccup, but they are confident the deal will get done. The county authority that currently owns the team is supposedly "crying wolf" to try to get someone to cover those costs, but the buyer is committed regardless. So maybe things aren't as dire there as the recent articles make it sound.

As far as other cities that could join the ECHL- 

Portland Maine reportedly has several interested groups putting together proposals for a lease with the arena. 

Reno Nevada has reportedly got a group that has the framework for a lease in place and are expected to apply for ECHL membership, although nothing official from the league yet.

Albany NY is reportedly working behind the scenes to bring in the Rangers AHL team for 2018 after their arena remodel. If that doesn't happen they might look at ECHL later on. 

It is possible, but unlikely that an SPHL city could move up - Peoria being the most likely since they are closer to a lot of ECHL cites than to most of the rest of the SPHL, but no actual indications that would happen, or even rumors, just speculation. 

OKC always comes up because they have had hockey in the past, but don't now. No interested local owners and the buildings are busy with other sports/concerts, so unless something changes probably not. No actual activity or even rumors currently.


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## Predarat

Agalloch said:


> Now that Jacksonville and Worcester are coming for the 2017-18 season, becoming the 28th and 29th team, any other cities interested in taking the last spot (or maybe 2 last spots) ?
> 
> Elmira could be moving to North East like Albany/Portland.




Im an OKC Hopeful, but it does not sound good. With the right ownership/management team, I think Memphis could upgrade to the ECHL from the Sunshine League.


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## crimsonace

Woo Hockey said:


> I believe they also had issues getting an ownership group to back bringing a team there.




That's the issue in OKC. There are two arenas with ice - the former Myriad (Cox Convention Center) & the new Thunder arena. There's also an older rink in the suburbs. But the owners of the Thunder also own/control the ex-Myriad, and they seem to have no intention on putting hockey there and competing with the Thunder and the D-League team that plays there. Therefore, a team would be stuck with bad dates/lease, et al. 

That's the "no viable place to play." There are places to play, but none are viable and available.


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## MiamiHockey

jason2020 said:


> I could see a joint effort between Ottawa/Montreal and have the team in Laval.




If the Habs wanted another franchise in Laval, they'd buy a QMJHL franchise long before they'd bring in an ECHL franchise.

See, e.g., what the Oilers have done in Edmonton and the Flames in Calgary.

Canadians are more interested in Major Junior than Minor Pro, and the team costs for Major Junior are substantially lower given that players aren't paid and travel is much more limited.


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## jason2020

MiamiHockey said:


> If the Habs wanted another franchise in Laval, they'd buy a QMJHL franchise long before they'd bring in an ECHL franchise.
> 
> See, e.g., what the Oilers have done in Edmonton and the Flames in Calgary.
> 
> Canadians are more interested in Major Junior than Minor Pro, and the team costs for Major Junior are substantially lower given that players aren't paid and travel is much more limited.




With how bad Brampton is supported might make some sense to move the team to Laval just to be there for call ups etc as for travel is much more limited in the Chl not really.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

jason2020 said:


> With how bad Brampton is supported might make some sense to move the team to Laval just to be there for call ups etc as for travel is much more limited in the Chl not really.




uh, difference is the Canadiens don't own an ECHL club, jason, Laval has been on the drawing board since Andlauer divested his stake in the Canadiens, and ran the Bulldogs, that's why the Canadiens were allowed to come to St. John's when TNSE returned the Moose to MTS Centre, alongside the parent Jets...


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## Agalloch

jason2020 said:


> With how bad Brampton is supported might make some sense to move the team to Laval just to be there for call ups etc as for travel is much more limited in the Chl not really.




Brampton are 'well' supported.

They are having their best attendance numbers in their history for the last 2 years.


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## MiamiHockey

jason2020 said:


> With how bad Brampton is supported might make some sense to move the team to Laval just to be there for call ups etc as for travel is much more limited in the Chl not really.




Take a long look at the QMJHL Team Map versus the ECHL Team Map. The nearest ECHL team would be Glens Falls at 3.5 hours drive (plus an international border to cross). There are SEVEN QMJHL franchises within a 3.5 hour drive of Laval (Gatineau, Blainville, Sherbrooke, Drummondville, Shawinigan, Victoriaville, Quebec). The furthest ECHL team in their own division (Wheeling) would be 12 hour drive + international border. The travel is not even comparable.

The ECHL is not going to Montreal.


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## royals119

MiamiHockey said:


> Take a long look at the QMJHL Team Map versus the ECHL Team Map. The nearest ECHL team would be Glens Falls at 3.5 hours drive (plus an international border to cross). There are SEVEN QMJHL franchises within a 3.5 hour drive of Laval (Gatineau, Blainville, Sherbrooke, Drummondville, Shawinigan, Victoriaville, Quebec). The furthest ECHL team in their own division (Wheeling) would be 12 hour drive + international border. The travel is not even comparable.
> 
> The ECHL is not going to Montreal.



I agree the ECHL is not going to Montreal/Laval, but if you take a look at the ECHL map, Brampton is 4.5 hours from Elmira, with an international border crossing, and even further to the rest of their division. Alaska flies to every other city, and I would bet Idaho probably flies a lot too. Distance to other teams alone doesn't prevent a team from succeeding in the ECHL.


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## MiamiHockey

royals119 said:


> I agree the ECHL is not going to Montreal/Laval, but if you take a look at the ECHL map, Brampton is 4.5 hours from Elmira, with an international border crossing, and even further to the rest of their division. Alaska flies to every other city, and I would bet Idaho probably flies a lot too. Distance to other teams alone doesn't prevent a team from succeeding in the ECHL.




My point was not that teams can't succeed when isolated from the rest of the league, but rather that it would make much more sense for the Habs to pursue a QMJHL team, with lower travel distances (and, therefore, costs) being one non-trivial factor.


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## Royalsflagrunner77

MiamiHockey said:


> My point was not that teams can't succeed when isolated from the rest of the league, but rather that it would make much more sense for the Habs to pursue a QMJHL team, with lower travel distances (and, therefore, costs) being one non-trivial factor.




But you have to remember the qjmhl has a age limit they couldnt develop players the same way a echl team could. but I really dont think we will see canadian echl teams for awhile.


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## Royalsflagrunner77

I'm just waiting for the nhl to up the pressure about moving NHL affilates closer to the parent franchises .i know they are already getting on the ahl about it . its only a matter of time. Before they get on the E. I wouldn't be supprised to see nhl teams looking for the perfect setup like Philly, Lehigh and Reading have .


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## BigMac1212

I might do an update AHL-ECHL map after seeing Albany move to Binghamton. I just love expansion ideas.


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## go comets

BigMac1212 said:


> I might do an update AHL-ECHL map after seeing Albany move to Binghamton. I just love expansion ideas.




You may like expansion ideas, but I don't think Albany is going to be one of them.......Several games a year with few people in the seats.....


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## ADKthunderFan34

Rumors in Albany are they are trying to get an NBA dleague team to replace the devils


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## Nightsquad

go comets said:


> You may like expansion ideas, but I don't think Albany is going to be one of them.......Several games a year with few people in the seats.....




Nobody is going to games in Albany when every Saturday game is at 5pm. They dont advertise, the Devils dont reach out to do group sales, games are rarely ever broadcast on radio. If you want to know when a Devils game is scheduled you have to go to website. Local Albany news doesnt cover the Devils barely and nevet ECHL in Glens Falls. Poor way to run a hockey team.


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## crobro

*Billings Montana s a pro hockey market.*

Billings Montana 

Booming town 

Could they support a potential Canucks ECHL Team?

Did quite well with the bighorns in the early 80's


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## DudeWhereIsMakar

Would love to see a pro hockey team come back there. Preferably WHL, more likely ECHL.


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## BattleBorn

My mom just moved up there a year or so ago. I'd love to have another excuse to go visit. Checking out the Knights prospects might just be the additional excuse I need. 

Does Rimrock Auto Arena have icemaking stuff? I know it got damaged by a tornado or something a few years ago and pretty much rebuilt.


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