# 2017 Summer Transfers and Rumors Part VII



## bluesfan94

Neymar edition.


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## Vipers31

bleedblue1223 said:


> According to the Telegraph and Evening Standard, Chelsea are making a 2-year loan offer for Renato Sanches. The Telegraph has Chelsea still going for Sandro, Ox, and for some reason Barkley.




That's pretty odd. Chelsea seems like too big a club to develop players for others, but with how good Sanches had just looked against them, maybe they think it's worth it for the two years of service they'd get. Thankfully, Rummenigge made it pretty clear that Bayern isn't interested in any buy options. Who knows, but I'd still guess he goes to a smaller club than that, at least.


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## frostyflo

Vipers31 said:


> That's pretty odd. Chelsea seems like too big a club to develop players for others, but with how good Sanches had just looked against them, maybe they think it's worth it for the two years of service they'd get. Thankfully, Rummenigge made it pretty clear that Bayern isn't interested in any buy options. Who knows, but I'd still guess he goes to a smaller club than that, at least.




Yes and he complained about getting not enough playing time with Bayern but I don't see much more time on the pitch for him at Chelsea....especially when Bakayoko comes back from injury


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## DatsyukOwns

Vipers31 said:


> That's pretty odd. Chelsea seems like too big a club to develop players for others, but with how good Sanches had just looked against them, maybe they think it's worth it for the two years of service they'd get. Thankfully, Rummenigge made it pretty clear that Bayern isn't interested in any buy options. Who knows, but I'd still guess he goes to a smaller club than that, at least.




Would be crazy if Sandro left. Wouldn't that be 3 of their starting defenders gone from last year?


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## Paulie Gualtieri

Pochettino speaking about having a clear plan in the transfer market and Kyle Walker:

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/po...s-213841522.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=ma


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## Deficient Mode

TopKex said:


> Pochettino speaking about having a clear plan in the transfer market and Kyle Walker:
> 
> https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/po...s-213841522.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=ma




I hope he has studied his Wengerisms. Spurs fans will feel the pain of their club building a new stadium for a while.


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## Live in the Now

There is nothing necessarily wrong with Spurs current plans as long as players don't get injured. If players do get injured, they will feel it hard. It will destroy their season more than any other club with injuries.

But in the current English market and approach to English teams, he can say what he wants about big money, if he's not spending big money he probably isn't spending. Every selling team is expecting to get rich off this league.


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## Live in the Now

In transfer news, Roma bid Â£27m for Mahrez, it was rejected, and now they're looking at other targets.


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## Deficient Mode

So Neymar's father will apparently be owed â‚¬25m if he is still a Barca player on July 31 as a "loyalty clause" and might just be waiting until after that to have him move to PSG.


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## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Deficient Mode said:


> So Neymar's father will apparently be owed â‚¬25m if he is still a Barca player on July 31 as a "loyalty clause" and might just be waiting until after that to have him move to PSG.




Apparently he will also receive 30M from PSG next week if/when this move goes through. Giving Raiola a run for his money


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## Theon

La pÃ¨re de Neymar sounds like a real piece of work.


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## Deficient Mode

TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> Apparently he will also receive 30M from PSG next week if/when this move goes through. Giving Raiola a run for his money




I thought it was 40M from PSG?


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## bluesfan94

Live in the Now said:


> There is nothing necessarily wrong with Spurs current plans as long as players don't get injured. If players do get injured, they will feel it hard. It will destroy their season more than any other club with injuries.
> 
> But in the current English market and approach to English teams, he can say what he wants about big money, if he's not spending big money he probably isn't spending. Every selling team is expecting to get rich off this league.




Injured or just have an off year.


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## Bakayoko Ono

European soccer could really use some continent-wide regulation/oversight when it comes to these deals and especially agent fees etc..


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## Rare Jewel

Bakayoko Ono said:


> European soccer could really use some continent-wide regulation/oversight when it comes to these deals and especially agent fees etc..




Yea, wouldn't that be something...


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## Evilo

Diousse from Empoli to St Etienne for 5M euros.


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## hatterson

bluesfan94 said:


> Injured or just have an off year.




Off year is where my money is given the stadium move.

Could be in for a rough summer next year if they miss CL football and teams come calling for Alli, Dier, and Kane.


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## bluesfan94

hatterson said:


> Off year is where my money is given the stadium move.
> 
> Could be in for a rough summer next year if they miss CL football and teams come calling for Alli, Dier, and Kane.




And even if their players don't have off years, they've lost their starting right back and every other team around them has gotten better with the arguable exception of Everton. Players brought in to those teams include Lacazette, Salah, Lukaku, Bakayoko, Walker, Danilo, Morata, RÃƒÂ¼diger, Mendy, B. Silva, and Lindelof, amongst others.


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## phisherman

bluesfan94 said:


> And even if their players don't have off years, they've lost their starting right back and every other team around them has gotten better with the arguable exception of Everton. Players brought in to those teams include Lacazette, Salah, Lukaku, Bakayoko, Walker, Danilo, Morata, RÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼diger, Mendy, B. Silva, and Lindelof, amongst others.




But they have the best striker, best midfielder, and best youth players.


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## Wee Baby Seamus

phisherman said:


> But they have the best striker, best midfielder, and best youth players.




I feel like you're being tongue in cheek, but just in case...

Striker: the argument can definitely be made and I'd probably agree. 
Midfielder: LOL no (both because Alli isn't a midfielder and because even if he was he's 100% not the best) 
Youth players: meh


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## Savant

Man City and Chelsea have the best youth academies in England by far.

I don't know if Kane is the best striker but he certainly fits the team he is on the best. 

Midfielder is also a very broad term.


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## Paulie Gualtieri

hatterson said:


> Could be in for a rough summer next year if they miss CL football and teams come calling for Alli, Dier, and Kane.




No chance Harry leaves. 



bluesfan94 said:


> And even if their players don't have off years, they've lost their starting right back and every other team around them has gotten better with the arguable exception of Everton. Players brought in to those teams include Lacazette, Salah, Lukaku, Bakayoko, Walker, Danilo, Morata, RÃƒÂ¼diger, Mendy, B. Silva, and Lindelof, amongst others.




Your criticism would be fair if the transfer window were closed.


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## Havre

TopKex said:


> Your criticism would be fair if the transfer window were closed.




Well. Rather simplified way of evaluating things.

Different teams will have different needs at different times.

If you got obvious holes in your team - sure - transfers matter - if you donÂ´t.....

I hope Spurs bring in one or two young players that might work out like Dier and Alli, but the team is well set for this season regardless. More a question of always filling up the assembly line for the future.


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## bluesfan94

TopKex said:


> No chance Harry leaves.
> 
> 
> 
> Your criticism would be fair if the transfer window were closed.




I think Kane would likely stay, but I could see Dier, Alli, and Eriksen leaving if there's no CL and they have years that warrant looks from bigger teams.


Of course. And if they make moves, I'll take everything I say back. But they haven't really been linked to too much beyond Barkley, plus Pochettino/Levy are indicating that they aren't going to be too active in the market.


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## hatterson

TopKex said:


> No chance Harry leaves.




I think Kane stays too, he's probably the easiest to keep a hold of because of his ties to the club, but still if you have Alli, Dier, and Eriksen leave and someone like United or Madrid comes and says they'll triple his salary, that's a hard offer to turn down.


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## Elliman

Fellaini to Gala. Done.


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## S E P H

- L'Equipe saying Monaco turned down a 50 million Euro bid for Lemar from Arsenal. No words if Arsenal will resubmit another bid, but they did a 45m earlier on in the week.

- Mundo Deportivo reporting Arsenal along with Liverpool are going after Barca's Rafinha, for Arsenal's case, as a potential move to replace OX. 

- Sportitalia concludes that Juventus and Arsenal are going after Udinese midfielder Jakub Jankto, according to his agent.

- The Guardian, Metro, and L'Equipe confirm that Nice will need to sell two more players to get the funds to sign four players they're looking at. One of those is Seri, which a lot of reports say that Arsenal are close to signing him for Â£36 million.

- Metro thinks that Klopp wants Leon Goretzka since the Keita bid failed and they somehow pin Arsenal in wanting him as well.


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## I Eat Crow

Elliman said:


> Fellaini to Gala. Done.




Happy early birthday to me


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## Edo

Savant said:


> *Man City and Chelsea have the best youth academies in England by far.*
> 
> I don't know if Kane is the best striker but he certainly fits the team he is on the best.
> 
> Midfielder is also a very broad term.




That's arguable. Neither have really produced anything. If you go ahead and list the top 3 players all the academies in England have produced in the past decade, City/Chelsea wouldn't be that impressive.


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## Deficient Mode

hatterson said:


> I think Kane stays too, he's probably the easiest to keep a hold of because of his ties to the club, but still if you have Alli, Dier, and Eriksen leave and someone like United or Madrid comes and says they'll triple his salary, that's a hard offer to turn down.




I doubt Madrid is interested in any of them


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## oilers92

Edo said:


> That's arguable. Neither have really produced anything. If you go ahead and list the top 3 players all the academies in England have produced in the past decade, City/Chelsea wouldn't be that impressive.




sky had a tweet last week about most minuets played in prem from academy graduates, not just playing for your club but any that came through your ranks, United 1st with 44,000 minuets spurs 2nd with 27,000.


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## Live in the Now

City's youth academy is the best in England by far, yes. Possibly even in the world. Anyone who watched U-18 football can see it.


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## Jussi

Elliman said:


> Fellaini to Gala. Done.




Source?


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## cgf

Jankto & Schlick are both very slick talents. If Cerny can break through this year and Darida doesn't fall off any time soon; the Czech NT could start to play some really nice football. Their youth teams have been trending up and it's an attractive style of football they preach across the levels, so I hope it continues as more and more of those youths hit senior NT levels.


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## Ajacied

Live in the Now said:


> City's youth academy is the best in England by far, yes. Possibly even in the world. Anyone who watched U-18 football can see it.




City finished 3rd in a search for home grown talent whom made minutes in the Premier League this past season. Tottenham and United finished #2 and #1 respectively. Ajax and Feyenoord finished 10th and 11th and are the first international sides to reach the list.

City buys a lot of players at a young age and loan them out as much as possible whenever they hit their late teens. That's not educating. I believe they have 30 loan outs each season.

City isn't near the level of the educational systems of an Ajax or a Barcelona.


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## Edo

Live in the Now said:


> City's youth academy is the best in England by far, yes. Possibly even in the world. Anyone who watched U-18 football can see it.




They haven't developed anybody of note though. With all of their resources, you would assume there would be a star somewhere along the lines.


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## bluesfan94

City's youth should be starting to break through soon and it shows. Ihenacho looked good and Sancho should be a stud


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## Live in the Now

Ajacied said:


> City finished 3rd in a search for home grown talent whom made minutes in the Premier League this past season. Tottenham and United finished #2 and #1 respectively. Ajax and Feyenoord finished 10th and 11th and are the first international sides to reach the list.
> 
> City buys a lot of players at a young age and loan them out as much as possible whenever they hit their late teens. That's not educating. I believe they have 30 loan outs each season.
> 
> City isn't near the level of the educational systems of an Ajax or a Barcelona.






Edo said:


> They haven't developed anybody of note though. With all of their resources, you would assume there would be a star somewhere along the lines.




City developed Sturridge and Joe Hart, then the new owners ripped apart their youth academy so obviously they haven't developed anyone since. 

I was talking about right at this moment. Other teams developed players 10-15 years ago but I'm not talking about that. Of course some of their youth players were purchased at age 13-14. But there's definitely some future stars there. Sancho and Diaz being the most obvious ones.

In terms of in England I'd much rather have their academy than the other teams.


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## Live in the Now

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...-220-million-summer-spending-spree-puts-back/

The Telegraph is running a story that in short says UEFA wants to stop City and PSG from spending so much money.


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## Evilo

Live in the Now said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...-220-million-summer-spending-spree-puts-back/
> 
> The Telegraph is running a story that in short says UEFA wants to stop City and PSG from spending so much money.




Yeah. Totally makes sense. Only Real, Barca or United should be able to spend crazy money on average players. God forbid PSG spending crazy money on a top player.


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## Ceremony

Man City's academy system is quite clearly worthless.


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## Milos Krasic

S E P H said:


> - Sportitalia concludes that Juventus and Arsenal are going after Udinese midfielder Jakub Jankto, according to his agent.




Jankto is a promising player. Udinese has a great eye for talent. Like Palermo but without the dysfunction.


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## Venkman

Live in the Now said:


> City developed Sturridge and Joe Hart, then the new owners ripped apart their youth academy so obviously they haven't developed anyone since.




Hart signed from Shrewsbury at 19, never played for City's academy.


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## Live in the Now

Whoops!


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## Venkman

Don't want to give them too much credit.


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## Paulie Gualtieri

Evilo said:


> Yeah. Totally makes sense. Only Real, Barca or United should be able to spend crazy money on average players. God forbid PSG spending crazy money on a top player.




Are you saying that Man City and PSG (if they sign Neymar) aren't taking it to new levels?


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## JaymzB

TopKex said:


> Are you saying that Man City and PSG (if they sign Neymar) aren't taking it to new levels?




Neymar woild be a world record fee, but why should only Real or maybe United be allowed to make world record signings?


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## Havre

There is quite a difference between spending your own money and spending someone elseÂ´s.

If you disagree that is fine, but that is what FFP was supposed to be about. Has nothing to do with the overall fees.

So yes - a team that generates enough money through normal activities should be allowed to pay higher fees for players. ManUtd could easily afford 220m for Neymar if they donÂ´t buy anyone else for a year or two. PSG couldnÂ´t without the population of Qatar paying for it.


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## les Habs

I was thinking about this Neymar business. Assuming PSG don't make sales to cover the ground they need to make the Neymar deal happen and/or assuming they come to negotiate the BarÃ§a management team have an easy task the more I think about it. They could get well over 222 million even. I would give PSG the following options if they came calling:

1) A massive fee and X player(s).
2) A massive fee of say... maybe start at 500 million.
3) Pay the buyout.

The first two options are a negotiation where you allow them to make the payments in installments. So say with the second option you give them five years to pay it in 100 million installments. Maybe they negotiate it down, but you don't go past a certain point (say 300 million). Worse case scenario they pay the buyout clause.


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## Ajacied

Live in the Now said:


> City developed Sturridge and Joe Hart, then the new owners ripped apart their youth academy so obviously they haven't developed anyone since.
> 
> I was talking about right at this moment. Other teams developed players 10-15 years ago but I'm not talking about that. Of course some of their youth players were purchased at age 13-14. But there's definitely some future stars there. Sancho and Diaz being the most obvious ones.
> 
> In terms of in England I'd much rather have their academy than the other teams.




Sancho was bought from Watford at the age of 15. City have barely played a part in his progression. Diaz was bought from Malaga at the age of 14.

For all the talent they reap away from clubs, about 1% actually make the squad. City alone had nine loan outs playing in the Eredivisie this past season. They just buy promising players for the 300k educational fee and sell them a few years later for a couple of millions without them even sniffing the first team. I doubt highly touted Dutchies Dilrosun, Kongolo and even AkÃ© made a very wise decision.

Edit: AkÃ© plays for Chelsea, never mind him.


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## Evilo

TopKex said:


> Are you saying that Man City and PSG (if they sign Neymar) aren't taking it to new levels?




Are you saying United didn't take it to a new level for Pogba last summer?
Or Real earlier with Bale?

Were both players comparable to Neymar?

If anything, PSG has rarely (if ever) overpaid for players. Real and United have a habit of doing so. Barca has done this quite a few times as well. Now, you could say they overpay for Neymar. I'd say he's well worth 3 Moratas or 2 Pogbas.



Havre said:


> There is quite a difference between spending your own money and spending someone elseÃ‚Â´s.



Don't want to get too political on this board but...
It's always someone else's money. When Chevrolet closes some places in Detroit and spends huge money on a sponsorship kit with United, it clearly is someone else's money.
When Real Madrid was offered a training center by the government of Spain, wouldn't you say it's the spanish people's money?
When barca's sponsor is Dubai's governement's own flying company, would you say it isn't Dubai's money?

I could go on and on and on.


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## Havre

You are comparing the money of a privately owned publicly traded company to a state owned company in a dictatorship? I think it is a silly way for GM to spend their money, but that is a different question.

As for RM I agree. Absolutely ridiculous and one of the reasons why I could never cheer for RM.

As for Barcelona it is different if they are paying market price for that sponsorship. This is specifically mentioned in the FFP as City clearly has tried to inflate sponsorship agreements through companies linked to their owners.

Not saying this is completely black or white, but it isnÂ´t completely grey either. I donÂ´t like it when football clubs become the toys for anyone. Even if it is a proper fan as was the case with for example Blackburn or Wigan.


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## hatterson

Evilo said:


> Are you saying United didn't take it to a new level for Pogba last summer?
> Or Real earlier with Bale?
> 
> Were both players comparable to Neymar?
> 
> If anything, PSG has rarely (if ever) overpaid for players. Real and United have a habit of doing so. Barca has done this quite a few times as well. Now, you could say they overpay for Neymar. I'd say he's well worth 3 Moratas or 2 Pogbas.
> 
> 
> Don't want to get too political on this board but...
> It's always someone else's money. When Chevrolet closes some places in Detroit and spends huge money on a sponsorship kit with United, it clearly is someone else's money.
> When Real Madrid was offered a training center by the government of Spain, wouldn't you say it's the spanish people's money?
> When barca's sponsor is Dubai's governement's own flying company, would you say it isn't Dubai's money?
> 
> I could go on and on and on.




I don't understand why it's difficult to see the difference between a marginal increase in the record, paid for by club operation money, and more than doubling the record with money an owner dumps in from outside football operations.

I'm not on some crusade to stop PSG or City, I don't really care, but you should at least recognize the difference.


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## Evilo

Havre said:


> You are comparing the money of a privately owned publicly traded company to a state owned company in a dictatorship? I think it is a silly way for GM to spend their money, but that is a different question.
> 
> Not saying this is completely black or white, but it isnÃ‚Â´t completely grey either. I donÃ‚Â´t like it when football clubs become the toys for anyone. Even if it is a proper fan as was the case with for example Blackburn or Wigan.




It is ALWAYS a toy.
GM spending money on United is toying. Think the money wouldn't better spent on the actual workers?



hatterson said:


> I don't understand why it's difficult to see the difference between a marginal increase in the record, paid for by club operation money, and more than doubling the record with money an owner dumps in from outside football operations.
> 
> I'm not on some crusade to stop PSG or City, I don't really care, but you should at least recognize the difference.



Marginal?
Take a look at United's money and where it comes from :
1/ sponsors who choose to invest money in a football club rather than their own workers.
2/ kits and sales around the world, made through child labor without a decent salary, sold crazy prices because it has United on it.
3/ TV money which is funded by TV viewers who spend crazy money on TV subscriptions and thus don't spend their money elsewhere.
4/ Stadium revenues, made of huge fees paid by rich "fans" because that's the only "fans" that can afford it.

Outside football operations you said? Except for stadiums revenue, everything is outside football operations.


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## hatterson

Evilo said:


> Marginal?
> Take a look at United's money and where it comes from :
> 1/ sponsors who choose to invest money in a football club rather than their own workers.
> 2/ kits and sales around the world, made through child labor without a decent salary, sold crazy prices because it has United on it.
> 3/ TV money which is funded by TV viewers who spend crazy money on TV subscriptions and thus don't spend their money elsewhere.
> 4/ Stadium revenues, made of huge fees paid by rich "fans" because that's the only "fans" that can afford it.
> 
> Outside football operations you said? Except for stadiums revenue, everything is outside football operations.




If you consider sponsorship deals, kit sales, and tv money as not football operations income, then I really don't know what to say.


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## Evilo

Yes I know you don't have much to say. Because there's really nothing to say. Sponsors give money instead of giving it to their own employees and workers. Very much football operations indeed.
Kit sales is made through labor child. I guess that's very much football operations.
As for TV deals, it's money made out of TV ads and susbscriptions.


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## Havre

I have read Karl Marx etc but what are talking about?

Why do you think GM sponsors Utd?


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## Jussi

Evilo said:


> Are you saying United didn't take it to a new level for Pogba last summer?
> Or Real earlier with Bale?
> 
> Were both players comparable to Neymar?
> 
> If anything, PSG has rarely (if ever) overpaid for players. Real and United have a habit of doing so. Barca has done this quite a few times as well. Now, you could say they overpay for Neymar. I'd say he's well worth 3 Moratas or 2 Pogbas.
> 
> 
> Don't want to get too political on this board but...
> It's always someone else's money. When Chevrolet closes some places in Detroit and spends huge money on a sponsorship kit with United, it clearly is someone else's money.
> *When Real Madrid was offered a training center by the government of Spain, wouldn't you say it's the spanish people's money?*
> When barca's sponsor is Dubai's governement's own flying company, would you say it isn't Dubai's money?
> 
> I could go on and on and on.




I think that was the city of Madrid. They transfered part of their old training ground to the city for development. More here: https://www.ft.com/content/750e14a2-3f94-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a


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## hatterson

Evilo said:


> Yes I know you don't have much to say. Because there's really nothing to say. Sponsors give money instead of giving it to their own employees and workers. Very much football operations indeed.
> Kit sales is made through labor child. I guess that's very much football operations.
> As for TV deals, it's money made out of TV ads and susbscriptions.




And 200 million would be better spent feeding hungry kids in Africa instead of buying a football player.

See look, I can say ridiculous things too.


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## Evilo

Jussi said:


> I think that was the city of Madrid. They transfered part of their old training round to the city for development. More here: https://www.ft.com/content/750e14a2-3f94-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a



Doesn't change the point.



hatterson said:


> And 200 million would be better spent feeding hungry kids in Africa instead of buying a football player.
> 
> See look, I can say ridiculous things too.



Is Qatar responsible for the hunger in Africa?
Is GM responsible for poor salaries to its employees?

If you can't see the difference, more power to you. You live in a happy world.


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## Evilo

Havre said:


> I have read Karl Marx etc but what are talking about?




Either you're beyond stupid or you don't want to see the obvious.
You're not worried to buy Nike or Adidas kits made by child labor in Asia, but you're outraged that Qatar spends money on Neymar.

Hypocrisy or stupidity. Can't say.


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## Scandale du Jour

Evilo said:


> It is ALWAYS a toy.
> GM spending money on United is toying. Think the money wouldn't better spent on the actual workers?
> 
> 
> Marginal?
> Take a look at United's money and where it comes from :
> 1/ sponsors who choose to invest money in a football club rather than their own workers.
> 2/ kits and sales around the world, made through child labor without a decent salary, sold crazy prices because it has United on it.
> 3/ TV money which is funded by TV viewers who spend crazy money on TV subscriptions and thus don't spend their money elsewhere.
> 4/ Stadium revenues, made of huge fees paid by rich "fans" because that's the only "fans" that can afford it.
> 
> Outside football operations you said? Except for stadiums revenue, everything is outside football operations.




I don't want to be an ass but... welcome to capitalism and pro sports.

United, which I hate with a passion, have a brand people want to be associate with and they use it to make money via sponsorships, licensing and TV contracts. 

I understand being pissed at child labour (and trust me I am too) or a big corporation spending insane amount on money on sponsoring a football club when it lays off workers (which is ironically a schrewd business move as GM's brand is weak in Europe and the EPL American TV contract helps them have their brand on TV in their own market while expanding its reach all over the world). 

City and PSG had no brand power or very little before being bought by dictators. If you don't see the difference, I cannot help you. Qataris are ready to pay 220 for Neymar yet people get their passport confiscated when they go work in Qatar. People are also dying building a football stadium for a World Cup that makes absolutely no sense. PSG's owner are a cancer to World football.


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## hatterson

I mean, Qatar is at least responsible for the poor and slaves in Qatar, but that's neither here nor there as I'm not really sure why you're coming at me about Qatar since I've said literally nothing about them.

My point had nothing to do with whether the owner is a good guy who cares for his employees or whether he made his money off child sex trafficking, that's entirely irrelevant to the point I was making.

It was about the difference between clubs spending money they earn via sponsorships, kit deals, ticketing, competition winnings, and TV rights vs spending money an owner made in another business (whatever it is)

I even said I'm not upset about it, I don't care. I hope PSG gets Neymar becuase I think more top teams is better. But you're being disingenuous if you can't see the difference in source of the money (re it's relevance to football) and why some people might not want to support that.


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## Evilo

Scandale du Jour said:


> I don't want to be an ass but... welcome to capitalism and pro sports.
> 
> United, which I hate with a passion, have a brand people want to be associate with and they use it to make money via sponsorships, licensing and TV contracts.
> 
> I understand being pissed at child labour (and trust me I am too) or a big corporation spending insane amount on money on sponsoring a football club when it lays off workers (which is ironically a schrewd business move as GM's brand is weak in Europe and the EPL American TV contract helps them have their brand on TV in their own market while expanding its reach all over the world).
> 
> City and PSG had no brand power or very little before being bought by dictators. If you don't see the difference, I cannot help you. Qataris are ready to pay 220 for Neymar yet people get their passport confiscated when they go work in Qatar. People are also dying building a football stadium for a World Cup that makes absolutely no sense. PSG's owner are a cancer to World football.




If you don't think child labor is a cancer to world football, then I can't help you 
Selecting which is worse between Qatar's actions or world capitalism is quite weird.


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## Evilo

hatterson said:


> I mean, Qatar is at least responsible for the poor and slaves in Qatar, but that's neither here nor there as I'm not really sure why you're coming at me about Qatar since I've said literally nothing about them.
> 
> My point had nothing to do with whether the owner is a good guy who cares for his employees or whether he made his money off child sex trafficking, that's entirely irrelevant to the point I was making.
> 
> It was about the difference between clubs spending money they earn via sponsorships, kit deals, ticketing, competition winnings, and TV rights vs spending money an owner made in another business (whatever it is)
> 
> I even said I'm not upset about it, I don't care. I hope PSG gets Neymar becuase I think more top teams is better. But you're being disingenuous if you can't see the difference in source of the money (re it's relevance to football) and why some people might not want to support that.




Sure, people would support child labor I guess then 
Since they buy all these kits without second thoughts.

Again, that prism from occidentals that say their lack of ethics is still better than others' lack of ethics is quite something.
As for your first point I answered it already. Everything in today's pro football is linked to capitalism.


----------



## hatterson

it has nothing to do with ethics. You're the only one pushing the "everyone is bad" angle, probably becuase you don't have a substantive argument about the actual topic.


----------



## Scandale du Jour

Evilo said:


> If you don't think child labor is a cancer to world football, then I can't help you
> Selecting which is worse between Qatar's actions or world capitalism is quite weird.




Child labor is a cancer to society period. That's the part I was agreeing with.

However, branding, licensing and TV contracts are normal part of business, any entertainment business.

There are levels of bad and Qataris confiscating passports and having no security standards in their construction industry is near the top, just like child labour is. Sponsorship and TV contracts? That's is just business. Yes part of it can be morally grey (laying off workers when spending billions on putting your logo on a soccer shirt), I agree, but still not comparable to child labour or thousands of workers dying to build stadiums that will never be used again after the WC. Lumping them together is just you doing mental gymnastics to support a French club.

I mean, I feel like we want too far already, but if you were to argue that the Qataris are just a consequence of how capitalism evolved, I would have a hard time disagreeing. However, I fear we won't be able to have this discussion here.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Why does it matter if a rich owner comes in and spends their own money. They bought the club, they own it, their money is the clubs money's if they choose it.

Without that, it would be extremely difficult for the have-nots to join the haves.


----------



## Chimaera

Wow this has devolved.

That said, someone trying with a straight face to equate a company paying for sponsorships to a dictator spending the blood money of their people is a new one.

I'm fine with whomever spending whatever. There's no going back, but let's get a bit of a grip on reality with the two instances.


----------



## hatterson

Chimaera said:


> Wow this has devolved.
> 
> That said, someone trying with a straight face to equate a company paying for sponsorships to a dictator spending the blood money of their people is a new one.
> 
> I'm fine with whomever spending whatever. There's no going back, but let's get a bit of a grip on reality with the two instances.




I wasn't even making the dictator blood money point.

My point was simply that there is a difference between spending sponsorship money and spending outside owner money. It wasn't that one is bad and one is good, it's that they're different and it shouldn't be shocking that some people want to support one and not the other.


----------



## HoseEmDown

Evilo said:


> Sure, people would support child labor I guess then
> Since they buy all these kits without second thoughts.
> 
> Again, that prism from occidentals that say their lack of ethics is still better than others' lack of ethics is quite something.
> As for your first point I answered it already. Everything in today's pro football is linked to capitalism.




I only read the transfer thread for rumors, since I'm in America we don't get good info and this is a good place for it. So I don't comment just read what others say. But I remember reading something you wrote, maybe in a transfer thread or other football one, in which you said your son has like 10 jerseys from a bunch of different teams. It seems very hypocritical to complain about child labor in regards to kit making and the sales that come from them when you are one of the worst offenders of that. You are the exact person they are targeting because you keep buying them, so you must not care about child labor that much.


----------



## Evilo

hatterson said:


> it has nothing to do with ethics. You're the only one pushing the "everyone is bad" angle, probably becuase you don't have a substantive argument about the actual topic.




Really? I'm the one pushing that angle? Please read the thread. We're treated with the usual "Qatar's money is bad" rethorics without every looking at our own doings, which certainly aren't any better.
Yet, YOU have zero argument against that because frankly, there isn't any.



Scandale du Jour said:


> Child labor is a cancer to society period. That's the part I was agreeing with.
> 
> However, branding, licensing and TV contracts are normal part of business, any entertainment business.
> 
> There are levels of bad and Qataris confiscating passports and having no security standards in their construction industry is near the top, just like child labour is. Sponsorship and TV contracts? That's is just business. Yes part of it can be morally grey (laying off workers when spending billions on putting your logo on a soccer shirt), I agree, but still not comparable to child labour or thousands of workers dying to build stadiums that will never be used again after the WC. Lumping them together is just you doing mental gymnastics to support a French club.
> 
> I mean, I feel like we want too far already, but if you were to argue that the Qataris are just a consequence of how capitalism evolved, I would have a hard time disagreeing. However, I fear we won't be able to have this discussion here.




No, it isn't the discussion. If you feel like I'm defending PSG, use City, it's the same argument.
Money at this level is usually dirty. Whether it comes from a country like Qatar or through the worst levels of capitalism, it's dirty.
Trying to make a scale is really strange to me.



hatterson said:


> I wasn't even making the dictator blood money point.
> 
> My point was simply that there is a difference between spending sponsorship money and spending outside owner money. It wasn't that one is bad and one is good, it's that they're different and it shouldn't be shocking that some people want to support one and not the other.




Pardon me then to not support firing employees in order to spend more money on United's deal or using children in Asia with a 1$/week salary to make sure United can buy Pogba.
I'm sure there's a completely huge difference that people feel like they should support one over the other.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

It's been a weird week on this board...


----------



## Evilo

HoseEmDown said:


> I only read the transfer thread for rumors, since I'm in America we don't get good info and this is a good place for it. So I don't comment just read what others say. But I remember reading something you wrote, maybe in a transfer thread or other football one, in which you said your son has like 10 jerseys from a bunch of different teams. It seems very hypocritical to complain about child labor in regards to kit making and the sales that come from them when you are one of the worst offenders of that. You are the exact person they are targeting because you keep buying them, so you must not care about child labor that much.




Good point.
I am absolutely no stranger to this capitalism hypocrisy. My son has jerseys. I watch games between this millionaires running after a ball being paid insane money while people keep on dying in the streets of these very countries.
I'm absolutely guilty. But the thing is, I never denied to be, contrary to some people here.
And I certainly don't think I'm doing any better than Qatar or anything. I'm just as guilty.


----------



## Theon

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> It's been a weird week on this board...




This is all Neymar's fault.


----------



## Evilo

The only solution would be to avoid any contact with pro football. No game watched on TV, no jersey bought, etc...
I've thought about it quite a few times. I never did because I love the sport, no matter how horrible it has become on almost all fronts (including the on-pitch product BTW, with stupid UEFA's competitions made for only 4 clubs).
This sport has degenerated to a degree of unwatchable at times. But since I'm naive enough, I keep on watching all the time in hopes of a change which will now never come.


----------



## Jussi

Theon said:


> This is all Neymar's fault.




And thus, Barcelona's and PSG's fault.


----------



## Evilo

Haidara to St Etienne.
Don't know how he has come back from his injury with Newcastle.
I know there are some Magpies fans here. Any comment?


----------



## Jussi

Evilo said:


> Haidara to St Etienne.
> Don't know how he has come back from his injury with Newcastle.
> *I know there are some Magpies fans here. Any comment*?




They're probably too depressed about child labor now to comment. So thank's, Evilo!


----------



## cgf

Ajacied said:


> Sancho was bought from Watford at the age of 15. City have barely played a part in his progression. Diaz was bought from Malaga at the age of 14.
> 
> For all the talent they reap away from clubs, about 1% actually make the squad. City alone had nine loan outs playing in the Eredivisie this past season. They just buy promising players for the 300k educational fee and sell them a few years later for a couple of millions without them even sniffing the first team. I doubt highly touted Dutchies Dilrosun, Kongolo and even AkÃƒÂ© made a very wise decision.
> 
> Edit: AkÃƒÂ© plays for Chelsea, never mind him.




...14-19 are kind of important developmental years...



Wee Baby Seamus said:


> It's been a weird week on this board...




Who knew my post about the privileges white folks enjoy in america wouldn't even be the most controversial thing written on here this week.


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> ...14-19 are kind of important developmental years...



Yeah that's weird.


----------



## Deficient Mode

I agree with Evilo's basic point that you can't really avoid exploitation. But I still think the Qataris are worse.


----------



## Power Man

Evilo said:


> The only solution would be to avoid any contact with pro football. No game watched on TV, no jersey bought, etc...
> I've thought about it quite a few times. I never did because I love the sport, no matter how horrible it has become on almost all fronts (including the on-pitch product BTW, with stupid UEFA's competitions made for only 4 clubs).
> This sport has degenerated to a degree of unwatchable at times. But since I'm naive enough, I keep on watching all the time in hopes of a change which will now never come.



Unwatchable? It's not that bad

The NBA has become inwatchable. 

Baseball has always been unwatchable (but to be fair to Baseball, it's not a sport) 

I think soccer is fine


----------



## Evilo

The CL is a joke really.


----------



## Venkman

United close to signing Matic for Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£40m


----------



## Peen

Okay evilo I've watched Baka play like twice and he wasn't impressive in the games I've watched.

But I'll ask you since you've seen him a lot

Is bakayoko currently a better player than Matic?

Is bakayoko a better fit next to Kante than Matic?

Does bakayoko have a ton of room for growth? Or is he close to a finished product?

Is Bakayoko a better fit in a 3 man midfield or 2 man midfield?

Would you have essentially swapped Matic for Bakayoko and 5m like chelsea did or have kept Matic? If given the option to spend the money on a different midfielder to pair next to kante, say up to a ~60m budget.. who would you have spent it on?


----------



## RoyIsALegend

Neymar spent 15 mins in the Madrid dressing room after the game yesterday. 

He left with Ramos' jersey and another one signed by a few players. Definitely gone this week. 

http://www.marca.com/futbol/barcelona/2017/07/30/597def5a22601dcb508b45e9.html


----------



## jacobhockey13

Evilo said:


> Haidara to St Etienne.
> Don't know how he has come back from his injury with Newcastle.
> I know there are some Magpies fans here. Any comment?




He's been injured forever so we really haven't seen much of him either. Honestly, if the injuries haven't affected him he's a decent defender; he doesn't offer much going forward up the pitch. I also hate our current starting LB so I wish we would have kept him. Haidara didn't look to out of place in the Prem and should be able to do a decent job for St Etienne.


----------



## Nalens Oga

Dunno why Chelsea are being cheap. Sell him for less to another club but ffs stop selling players directly to your rival.



Evilo said:


> The only solution would be to avoid any contact with pro football. No game watched on TV, no jersey bought, etc...
> I've thought about it quite a few times. I never did because I love the sport, no matter how horrible it has become on almost all fronts (including the on-pitch product BTW, with stupid UEFA's competitions made for only 4 clubs).
> This sport has degenerated to a degree of unwatchable at times. But since I'm naive enough, I keep on watching all the time in hopes of a change which will now never come.




There's like a hundred first divisions in the world all available to watch online via streaming, if you can't pick one then it's your fault. I much prefer today's ****** looking tattoeed footballers to the days of Alan Shearer being able to score at will because the league was weak.


----------



## Evilo

jacobhockey13 said:


> He's been injured forever so we really haven't seen much of him either. Honestly, if the injuries haven't affected him he's a decent defender; he doesn't offer much going forward up the pitch. I also hate our current starting LB so I wish we would have kept him. Haidara didn't look to out of place in the Prem and should be able to do a decent job for St Etienne.



I remember him from his Nancy days. But recovering from this kind of injury can be tough.


----------



## YNWA14

Yeah I don't get the complaints about the on pitch product. There's never been so many talented players across all leagues. Regardless of the system there's a lot of beautiful soccer to watch.


----------



## Evilo

Peen said:


> Okay evilo I've watched Baka play like twice and he wasn't impressive in the games I've watched.
> 
> But I'll ask you since you've seen him a lot
> 
> Is bakayoko currently a better player than Matic?
> 
> Is bakayoko a better fit next to Kante than Matic?
> 
> Does bakayoko have a ton of room for growth? Or is he close to a finished product?
> 
> Is Bakayoko a better fit in a 3 man midfield or 2 man midfield?
> 
> Would you have essentially swapped Matic for Bakayoko and 5m like chelsea did or have kept Matic? If given the option to spend the money on a different midfielder to pair next to kante, say up to a ~60m budget.. who would you have spent it on?




I think he's better than Matic in some aspects. Physically, going forward, in the air, etc... 
But it took him a while to shine with Monaco. He's also coming back from injury. 
In a 442 like Monaco I like him better than Matic. 
In a 433 no idea.


----------



## Evilo

Curtinho said:


> Yeah I don't get the complaints about the on pitch product. There's never been so many talented players across all leagues. Regardless of the system there's a lot of beautiful soccer to watch.




4 teams get the biggest talents. It's dreadful.


----------



## Theon

Can't help but feel Matic will be a great signing for us. We've missed a defensive anchor in midfield for the longest time. He'll give more chances for Pogba and Herrera to push up and play a more offensive role. Expecting a big season for Paul now.


----------



## Power Man

Evilo said:


> The CL is a joke really.




I preferred the classic format (only the champs of each league) 

I'm not 100% complaining tho, as Real wouldn't have a couple of CLs with the old format


----------



## Peen

Theon said:


> Can't help but feel Matic will be a great signing for us. We've missed a defensive anchor in midfield for the longest time. He'll give more chances for Pogba and Herrera to push up and play a more offensive role. Expecting a big season for Paul now.




I dont like selling matic to a rival

We are now a midfielder short.. again


----------



## Edo

I hate Mourinho and United, but they've built a pretty deep squad.


----------



## Savant

Don't think Chelsea sells Matic to United if they think that he will hurt them.


----------



## bleedblue1223

We've sold Mata, Cech, Matic, and others to rivals. We'd rather do right by the player than refuse to sell to a rival.


----------



## Halladay

Power Man said:


> Unwatchable? It's not that bad
> 
> The NBA has become inwatchable.
> 
> Baseball has always been unwatchable (but to be fair to Baseball, it's not a sport)
> 
> I think soccer is fine




Just another gem post by you, like always.


----------



## Jeffrey

Bakayoko is basically a younger Sissoko.

Big physical, Good dribbling skills that show some hope he can become special but inconsistent, poor touch and injury prone. To me he is terribly overrated.

Monaco got a very good deal with offloading him at â‚¬40M.

I would take Matic over him any day of the week.


----------



## Evilo

You mean Moussa Sissoko?
Totally different players. 
Sissoko is about explosiveness and power with the ball. His low IQ however has made him a journeyman.
Bakayoko is more like Vieira style wise (I stress style here) : B2B, extremely good at getting the ball back, and powerful when he goes in the opposite box. Poor touch I disagree too. It's a misconception.
https://twitter.com/ConteTweets/status/886146520986390528

While he might be overrated because of his amazing season, I disagree with your evaluation of his talent.
I want to see him without Fabinho though and see what he can do.

Falcao's take :
https://twitter.com/KingBakayoko/status/878710020531253250

https://twitter.com/KingBakayoko/status/878577447607967745


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> You mean Moussa Sissoko?
> Totally different players.
> Sissoko is about explosiveness and power with the ball. His low IQ however has made him a journeyman.
> Bakayoko is more like Vieira style wise (I stress style here) : B2B, extremely good at getting the ball back, and powerful when he goes in the opposite box. Poor touch I disagree too. It's a misconception.
> https://twitter.com/ConteTweets/status/886146520986390528
> 
> While he might be overrated because of his amazing season, I disagree with your evaluation of his talent.
> I want to see him without Fabinho though and see what he can do.




I think he meant Momo Sissoko (ex Liverpool/Valencia/etc.)

Pre-eye injury.


----------



## Savant

bleedblue1223 said:


> We've sold Mata, Cech, Matic, and others to rivals. We'd rather do right by the player than refuse to sell to a rival.




I buy that on Cech. The other two, not so much.


----------



## Evilo

Ha, Momo Sissoko. I guess you could say that in terms of physical ressemblance. But Momo Sissoko can't control a ball or make decent passes.
Again, hardly the player Bakayoko is.


----------



## Savant

Evilo said:


> Ha, Momo Sissoko. I guess you could say that in terms of physical ressemblance. But Momo Sissoko can't control a ball or make decent passes.
> Again, hardly the player Bakayoko is.




Sissoko was on that track until his eye injury. Really underrated player who was starting to put things together.


----------



## Evilo

I don't remember Sissoko as having anywhere close to Bakayoko's talents.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

This Matic sale will be the angriest I've been about a Chelsea transfer since we sold De Bruyne.


----------



## Nalens Oga

Evilo said:


> 4 teams get the biggest talents. It's dreadful.




Are you 15? It's always been like this. The premiership is more competitive now if anything, it kept going back and forth between Arsenal/Man U till Chelsea came in plus Spurs and Man City are a real threat now. It used to be Barca/Real/Valencia a decade ago and now Atletico is in there. Bayern will always win the Bundesliga minus an off year where a Wolfsburg or Borussia will pop in plus the Bundesliga is very competitive now with Hoffenheim and RB added to the mix. Ligue 1 had Lyon winning like 7 ****ing titles in a row, PSG are at least good now. And Italy always has Roma/Inter/Juve/Milan.


----------



## Evilo

Nalens Oga said:


> Are you 15? It's always been like this. The premiership is more competitive now if anything, it kept going back and forth between Arsenal/Man U till Chelsea came in plus Spurs and Man City are a real threat now. It used to be Barca/Real/Valencia a decade ago and now Atletico is in there. Bayern will always win the Bundesliga minus an off year where a Wolfsburg or Borussia will pop in plus the Bundesliga is very competitive now with Hoffenheim and RB added to the mix. Ligue 1 had Lyon winning like 7 ****ing titles in a row, PSG are at least good now. And Italy always has Roma/Inter/Juve/Milan.






Educate yourself and then come back to me. Or not.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> This Matic sale will be the angriest I've been about a Chelsea transfer since we sold De Bruyne.




He wouldn't agree to an extension, so better to cash in.


----------



## awesomo

Not sure if it's shoppped but there's a photo of matic in united training gear that's gone viral


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Qatar is going to give Neymar 300 million dollars for him to be headlining the 2022 World Cup and he will then pay his own release clause. It's to avoid FFP.

That's crazy how a country is paying for a transfer/...


----------



## bleedblue1223

awesomo said:


> Not sure if it's shoppped but there's a photo of matic in united training gear that's gone viral




Probably photoshopped, but he's definitely going there regardless.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Doubt PSG will go that route, seems to be some buzz for 220M + a player to Barca. They are apparently interested in Di Maria

Also, Barca wants to activate Paulinho's 40M clause


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> Doubt PSG will go that route, seems to be some buzz for 220M + a player to Barca. They are apparently interested in Di Maria
> 
> Also, Barca wants to activate Paulinho's 40M clause




If they pay 40m for Paulinho I will laugh so hard I die.


----------



## awesomo

[Info Paris U] Aurier ok avec Man U dans l'attente d'une issue favorable Ã  son procÃ¨s. (AutorisÃ© par le PSG Ã  nÃ©gocier avec d'autres clubs)

also not sure if legit, im sure evilo would know better


----------



## Vasilevskiy

TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> Doubt PSG will go that route, seems to be some buzz for 220M + a player to Barca. They are apparently interested in Di Maria
> 
> Also, Barca wants to activate Paulinho's 40M clause




what a *****ing nightmare this is being.
Wake me up when the Neymar transfer ends


----------



## hatterson

awesomo said:


> [Info Paris U] Aurier ok avec Man U dans l'attente d'une issue favorable Ã  son procÃ¨s. (AutorisÃ© par le PSG Ã  nÃ©gocier avec d'autres clubs)
> 
> also not sure if legit, im sure evilo would know better




My French isn't great, what does that say?


----------



## hatterson

TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> Doubt PSG will go that route, seems to be some buzz for 220M + a player to Barca. They are apparently interested in Di Maria
> 
> Also, Barca wants to activate Paulinho's 40M clause




Why would they not just pay the release clause? Is that story about 50% tax on a release true?


----------



## DatsyukOwns

hatterson said:


> Why would they not just pay the release clause? Is that story about 50% tax on a release true?




Yep would complicate things with FFP I thought.

Radio Marca Cataulyna is reporting Barca director Braida will meet with Juve' Marotta over Dybala. Fee is reported at 110.


----------



## Evilo

Neymar is taking his medical in Doha apparently.

Paris United a very good source awesomo.


----------



## les Habs

DatsyukOwns said:


> Qatar is going to give Neymar 300 million dollars for him to be headlining the 2022 World Cup and he will then pay his own release clause. It's to avoid FFP.
> 
> That's crazy how a country is paying for a transfer/...




We'll see about that one. That seems crazy and I just wonder if a governing body or the other would balk at that.



TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> Doubt PSG will go that route, seems to be some buzz for 220M + a player to Barca. They are apparently interested in Di Maria
> 
> Also, Barca wants to activate Paulinho's 40M clause




220 million + di Maria would be awful. They should be able to get a lot more than that and I wouldn't want di Maria on a free. I'm concerned there would be something to this because sadly we've been linked with di Maria before.

While I don't want to see us bring in Paulinho especially at his clause, I don't think it'd be that bad. There's a lot of hilarious commentary on him since we've been linked with him. A lot of PL fans who don't even know that he was often played out of position with Spurs and who probably have rarely seen him outside of the PL. 



Vasilevskiy said:


> what a *****ing nightmare this is being.
> Wake me up when the Neymar transfer ends




Yeah, it's dragged on for too long.



hatterson said:


> Why would they not just pay the release clause? Is that story about 50% tax on a release true?






DatsyukOwns said:


> Yep would complicate things with FFP I thought.
> 
> Radio Marca Cataulyna is reporting Barca director Braida will meet with Juve' Marotta over Dybala. Fee is reported at 110.




The reason they don't just pay the release clause is probably both the taxes and they can't make that payment in installments. If they agree a fee they can agree to make them in installments so far as BarÃ§a's management agrees. As I posted yesterday they should be able to get a lot more for Neymar in that case

Is Braida even employed by the club anymore?


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Elliman said:


> Fellaini to Gala. Done.




http://www.espnfc.us/story/3168934/...ane-fellaini-not-going-anywhere-jose-mourinho

OSLO, NORWAY -- Jose Mourinho says he is "waiting for news" about Nemanja Matic's imminent move to Manchester United but insists Marouane Fellaini is not going anywhere this summer.


----------



## Deficient Mode

les Habs said:


> 220 million + di Maria would be awful. They should be able to get a lot more than that and I wouldn't want di Maria on a free. I'm concerned there would be something to this because sadly we've been linked with di Maria before.




Well if you wouldn't want him on a free that makes sense. I thought you were a fan of di Maria in the past though. 

I don't understand though, if Neymar's release clause is 220M, why would PSG have to give up something more. Unless they now view di Maria as a negative.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Deficient Mode said:


> Well if you wouldn't want him on a free that makes sense. I thought you were a fan of di Maria in the past though.
> 
> I don't understand though, if Neymar's release clause is 220M, why would PSG have to give up something more. Unless they now view di Maria as a negative.




If they pay the release clause, they would have to pay an additional tax, and they would have to pay it up front, at least from how I understand it. If Barca agrees to a payment plan, then the cost would be higher.


----------



## Live in the Now

Almost every transfer is in installments, so if they simply pay the buyout up front they're total idiots.


----------



## Deficient Mode

bleedblue1223 said:


> If they pay the release clause, they would have to pay an additional tax, and they would have to pay it up front, at least from how I understand it. If Barca agrees to a payment plan, then the cost would be higher.




Would the tax be a percentage of the buyout clause or is it a set fee?


----------



## bleedblue1223

Live in the Now said:


> Almost every transfer is in installments, so if they simply pay the buyout up front they're total idiots.




Most transfers aren't pure buyouts either.


----------



## les Habs

Deficient Mode said:


> Well if you wouldn't want him on a free that makes sense. I thought you were a fan of di Maria in the past though.
> 
> I don't understand though, if Neymar's release clause is 220M, why would PSG have to give up something more. Unless they now view di Maria as a negative.




I rated him to some degree and I thought he'd bring something to PSG. Indeed he did against us in that first leg last season, however he hasn't brought enough. Anyway, I've never liked him and still don't. What's more they should be looking at other options. If management brings him in it smacks of a short term solution and poor planning on top of worse business than they should get by negotiating a deal for Neymar. As I've posted I would get all cash. Then I'd see what I can do with it. Both Dembele _and _Dybala would be considerations. 

It's like I've said, if they have to go the buyout route it's 222 million and likely taxes on top of that to the tune of 111 million. The 222 million (and likely the tax I would imagine) would all have to be paid up front and right away and that apparently doesn't work for them with FFP and this being their second offense could mean getting the boot from the CL. However if PSG can get BarÃ§a to negotiate a transfer they can likely make it work as BarÃ§a could agree to taking the money in installments. 220 million say even in just two payments works much better for them and they don't have to pay the tax on that. This is why I posted yesterday that if PSG come calling to negotiate BarÃ§a should jack up the figure a lot. 300 million over say five years would work much better for PSG and allow the deal to go through. 



Live in the Now said:


> Almost every transfer is in installments, so if they simply pay the buyout up front they're total idiots.




As was posted, the buyout isn't a transfer though and it would have to be paid in full up front. The money would have to go to Neymar and he'd have to pay the clause, but he has to pay it in full.

PSG would do well to negotiate because I'm sure they can get a better deal and get everything sorted out right away. BarÃ§a's management probably wouldn't get what they should out of the deal (which is significantly more than 222 million) and so it works out better for PSG. 

All of that said, one might question the wisdom of the Neymar move overall when you look at the money involved. PSG can "afford" it, but it's not a sure thing to their ruling Europe.


----------



## Luigi Habs

DatsyukOwns said:


> Qatar is going to give Neymar 300 million dollars for him to be headlining the 2022 World Cup and he will then pay his own release clause. It's to avoid FFP.
> 
> That's crazy how a country is paying for a transfer/...




Would be hilarious if Brazil doesn't make it to the WC (highly unlikely I know).

If this deal goes through, fair to say Qatar will make sure Brazil will at least make it to the final


----------



## Deficient Mode

les Habs said:


> It's like I've said, if they have to go the buyout route it's 222 million and likely taxes on top of that to the tune of 111 million. The 222 million (and likely the tax I would imagine) would all have to be paid up front and right away and that apparently doesn't work for them with FFP and this being their second offense could mean getting the boot from the CL. However if PSG can get BarÃ§a to negotiate a transfer they can likely make it work as BarÃ§a could agree to taking the money in installments. 220 million say even in just two payments works much better for them and they don't have to pay the tax on that. This is why I posted yesterday that if PSG come calling to negotiate BarÃ§a should jack up the figure a lot. 300 million over say five years would work much better for PSG and allow the deal to go through.




Wait, who is collecting the 110 million tax in the end? Is it Barca? Or do they have to pay it indirectly to some governing authority?


----------



## CycloneLaunch

Matic will be a good pick up for United. I also enjoyed Mourinhos hair loss jab at Conte. Gotta say though, Matic could learn a thing or two about fighting for a place in the side from Fabregas.

I've been happy with who Chelsea has added so far, but they haven't really created the depth Conte was after by letting a bunch of players leave. I trust that Conte will get the best from Bakayoko and take his game up another level.


----------



## Power Man

According to a BeIN reporter, Mahrez will have his medical with Roma next week


----------



## les Habs

Deficient Mode said:


> Wait, who is collecting the 110 million tax in the end? Is it Barca? Or do they have to pay it indirectly to some governing authority?




I'm not entirely sure, but I think Neymar has to pay it. He has to pay the clause. It's discussed as PSG paying the clause because they would presumably give the 222 million to Neymar so that he can pay it. So I would assume they'd also have to pay him the ~111 million in tax money to pay as well.

I would just note that I read somewhere that tax wouldn't have to be paid do to a change in legislation, but I don't know. So many aspects and so many stories at this stage that it's tough to know what to believe.


----------



## bluesfan94

Damn. Went back to where I left off and had to check to make sure I wasn't on HFPol.


----------



## Ajacied

cgf said:


> ...14-19 are kind of important developmental years




I was only talking about Sancho, who has barely played two full seasons in City's academy.


----------



## Evilo

I didn't get all the fuss about Barca and La Liga (lol) saying they wanted to sue PSG. Didn't make sense to me, especially after decades of Real or Barca pillaging smaller teams.

Now I understand better if what I read is true : Qatar will give Neymar 300M to be the WC ambassador. With those 300M, he'll pay his release clause of 220M and "free himself". Then he'll sign with PSG.

That is indeed a way of cheating FFP rules, which isn't fair, hence the suing talk.

With that said, when spanish teams made loan after loan and bought players for insane money before the FFP, this didn't shock anyone.
But indeed, under FFP rules, this is cheating.
Hopefully, they get rid of those FFP rules and get themselves a real tool to limit transfer madness.


----------



## Evilo

And now PSG want another star. Either Sanchez or Mbappe. They're still very much negociating with both and want at least one.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Been traveling and only catching up on this Neymar stuff now. This is next level ridiculous.


----------



## Evilo

Haidara has refused sainte's contract proposal.


----------



## Theon

Aurier would be a welcome addition but I'm not sure if it's a wise move if we're serious about re-signing Zlatan in January.


----------



## Spoiled Bratt

Evilo said:


> And now PSG want another star. Either Sanchez or Mbappe. They're still very much negociating with both and want at least one.




There's no way Arsenal is selling Sanchez without a backup plan to replace him and odds are it's probably one of Mahrez or Lemar.

I'd rather we keep Sanchez for the full year, regain a spot in the top #4 and lose him on a free transfer then sell him now, not have enough time to replace him and miss out on a CL berth for the second straight year.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Matic to United is official.


----------



## Theon

Get in. If Woody gets a winger, I'll be really happy with the transfer business.


----------



## S E P H

The Telegraph reporting that Jadon Sancho has not reported to Man City training for multiple times and is wanting a move out due to Pep not including him for friendly games. Some think he wants a substantial raise in contract, but it seems he just wants to be with the first team full time. Arsenal are the frontrunners for him with Spurs and BVB following up. 



Jussi said:


> Source?



I think that poster is getting all his sources from Goal.com and then keeps posting them here with "done" next to them. Two weeks ago he said that Sanchez was confirmed to Man City and two hours later another poster posted a more relible rumour reporting that Alexis wanted 500K contract from Citeh. 



Taylor Hall said:


> There's no way Arsenal is selling Sanchez without a backup plan to replace him and odds are it's probably one of Mahrez or Lemar.
> 
> I'd rather we keep Sanchez for the full year, regain a spot in the top #4 and lose him on a free transfer then sell him now, not have enough time to replace him and miss out on a CL berth for the second straight year.



This would be the dumbest thing to do in history as we all learned from BVB and Lewandowski. If he wants out, then sell his ass and get the funds to potentially go after and steal Griezmann from United once Atletico isn't banned anymore. Or perhaps penny up to Lemar's price tag and a 50 million pound Alexis fee would pay 70% of it.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Just from my perspective, I think Man United has enough on the wings, and too many forwards, they need more full-backs.

Mkhitaryan is a 90 minute player at RW in all the important games, and then you have Lingard supplement him as a back up, if need be. On the other wing, Rashford starts, not his ideal position, but he can start and Martial can be his back up. Mata plays central attacking midfield, if you want a more attacking presence in the lineup instead of Matic or Herrera. If not, he's a back up. So just from my perspective, everything covered there. 

At the full-back positions, I still think Man United's weak there. If Mourinho hates Shaw, you need a new starter there. Blind is a platoon player, not a starter. And while the Valencia experiment seems to be going okay, I'm not sure I think he's a great RB or anything like that. Darmian isn't that good either.


----------



## cgf

BVB holding onto Lewa is one of the shrewdest and most ballsy decisions Watzke has ever made...even if he only made it because of the Gotze thing


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Sancho visited Dortmund's training center in June. We could free up a role for him. Mor seems to want out, he might want to leave instead of be loaned out.


----------



## YNWA14

Sancho is still very young to be doing something like this. Seems a bit petulant.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Theon said:


> Get in. If Woody gets a winger, I'll be really happy with the transfer business.




Think this should do wonders for Pogba and Herrera


----------



## Theon

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Just from my perspective, I think Man United has enough on the wings, and too many forwards, they need more full-backs.
> 
> Mkhitaryan is a 90 minute player at RW in all the important games, and then you have Lingard supplement him as a back up, if need be. On the other wing, Rashford starts, not his ideal position, but he can start and Martial can be his back up. Mata plays central attacking midfield, if you want a more attacking presence in the lineup instead of Matic or Herrera. If not, he's a back up. So just from my perspective, everything covered there.
> 
> At the full-back positions, I still think Man United's weak there. If Mourinho hates Shaw, you need a new starter there. Blind is a platoon player, not a starter. And while the Valencia experiment seems to be going okay, I'm not sure I think he's a great RB or anything like that. Darmian isn't that good either.




A few things...

I agree that fullback is an area of concern but that's simply because there's no attacking threat coming from there. I rag on Darmian (Jose's choice at LB) a lot because he's an offensive black hole, but he's still very good at defense. Shaw holds all the cards here, if he can stay healthy, the position his for the taking. Jose doesn't hate him, dude just can't stay healthy.

You're wrong about Valencia btw. He's a beast offensively and one of the best in the league last year, if not the best (IMO). Plus there's TFM as his backup and he's one of the best prospects out there.

We just don't have that many options in the wing. Martial is inconsistent, Rashford is a striker, Micki and Mata are #10s. Even if the latter two can play in the wing, they prefer to come inside and be a playmaker rather than go down the touch line and cross the ball. Lingard, I don't even wanna touch that. The lack of numbers in the wings make it a bigger concern than LB or RB for me.


----------



## Theon

The Abusement Park said:


> Think this should do wonders for Pogba and Herrera




Matic - Pogba - Herrera as starters and Fellaini - Carrick - Pereira/TFM for cup games etc. Good enough for me.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Chelsea board really doesn't have any excuses if they don't bring in 3-4 quality guys with the amount of money raised in the past couple windows from players sales. 

Matic basically covers Bakayoko, Oscar covered Morata, Ake+Traore covered Rudiger. Have also sold Cuadrado, Begovic, Atsu, and Chalobah. And will eventually get a fee for Costa.


----------



## Peen

bleedblue1223 said:


> Chelsea board really doesn't have any excuses if they don't bring in 3-4 quality guys with the amount of money raised in the past couple windows from players sales.




Chelsea net spend this window as things stand is what, 10m? 

We still have victor moses starting wingback.. yikes.

In the past 8 months we have lost Oscar, Mikel, Matic, Chalobah, RLC.. 

And have only brought in Bakayoko. We need another backup midfielder.


----------



## Live in the Now




----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

ARGH!

Mammana leaves to Zenit and Foyth heading to PSG. Not a good for Argentina's future in defence.


----------



## ViD

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> ARGH!
> 
> Mammana leaves to Zenit and Foyth heading to PSG. Not a good for Argentina's future in defence.




Why is it not good ? Zenit is playing in CL almost every year (except this one )


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

This is a world where Ajax can't pay wage demands that Watford can.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

ViD said:


> Why is it not good ? Zenit is playing in CL almost every year (except this one )




How many defenders have Zenit developed?


----------



## Spoiled Bratt

S E P H said:


> This would be the dumbest thing to do in history as we all learned from BVB and Lewandowski. If he wants out, then sell his ass and get the funds to potentially go after and steal Griezmann from United once Atletico isn't banned anymore. Or perhaps penny up to Lemar's price tag and a 50 million pound Alexis fee would pay 70% of it.




Again, if we have a done deal for a legit replacement, by all means sell him to the highest bidder but if Wenger pulls a Wenger and stolls like we all know he can, runs out of time to find a replacement, it'll lead the selling team to increase their demands knowing we're desperate and the window is about to be closed. You buy now, with Sanchez and sell him once we've got our replacement.

The other thing is that the other team has to want to sell or the player himself has to want to play for us and Monaco sold several key asset this summer, so moving Lemar doesn't seem all that realistic from their pov if they want to be somewhat relevant. As for Griezmann, I don't see him turning down United over us.

With that said, my comment was in reference to us not buying Sanchez's replacement before selling him and that if we can't buy a proper replacement, I'd rather keep him in order to clinch a spot in the CL with the notion we'll be losing him for free. IMO, we'd be in better shape to sign key players with a spot in the CL.


----------



## ViD

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> How many defenders have Zenit developed?




Garay, Skrtel, for instance


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

ViD said:


> Garay, Skrtel, for instance




Garay was in his late 20's by the time he got to Russia. There's no way you can make that claim.

Not sure about Skrtle though.

In any case, this doesn't give me any confidence. It's definitely not a great career move considering how much better the French league is at development.


----------



## cgf

ViD said:


> Why is it not good ? Zenit is playing in CL almost every year (except this one )




Because a lot of talents have stagnated with Zenit due to the sloppy style of play in the RPL and the anti-football that's so prevalent. Witsel & Kokorin in particular are ominous forebearers to Paredes & Driussi.


----------



## bleedblue1223

So, Costa is getting frustrated with Atletico not doing enough to bring him back and could end up with an awkward return to Chelsea.


----------



## Live in the Now

Skrtel was developed well at Zenit, looked like a starter when he got to a top team (in those days anyway). I don't know if that means anything in this instance.

Mancini has a good track record developing CB's.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Sounds like Neymar will be introduced in Paris on Wednesday


----------



## Live in the Now

100m offer for Coutinho rejected. They are wasting their time.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Delete. Dont wanna start dumb team arguments.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Live in the Now said:


> 100m offer for Coutinho rejected. They are wasting their time.





We seem to be good at wasting our time on players that won't be sold.


----------



## Live in the Now

East Coast Bias said:


> Delete. Dont wanna start dumb team arguments.




No, that's okay, I saw it. It is very funny indeed because people seem to not know the circumstances.

VVD:

No club has offered Southampton any money for VVD.
VVD has been offered to quadruple his wage.
VVD has been on strike for two weeks.
VVD is refusing to play for Southampton ever again.
Southampton do not offer Champions League football.

Coutinho:

Liverpool has been offered money and rejected it.
Coutinho has not been offered to quadruple his wage from 150k to 600k a week.
Coutinho has not missed a single training session.
Coutinho just captained Liverpool on Saturday.
Liverpool have Champions League football.



Apparently VVD is going to hold talks with Southampton this week.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Liverpool are offering Coutinho 600k a week? Wouldn't that put him close to being the most highly paid non-Neymar player in the world?


----------



## Live in the Now

Deficient Mode said:


> Liverpool are offering Coutinho 600k a week? Wouldn't that put him close to being the most highly paid non-Neymar player in the world?



No, nobody is. That's what I'm saying. VVD on the other hand is being offered to go from 50k to 200k, to quadruple his wage. The situations are not comparable and going on strike or forcing a move is really VVD's only option to get a high salary as Southampton won't give it. 

Meanwhile Coutinho is already on high wages at a club that has paid more before. The attempts to find similarities in these two situations are pointless as there aren't any. If Coutinho was to have his wage raised from 150k to 600k by moving to Barcelona, or if Coutinho went on strike, then there's a comparison to be made here.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Live in the Now said:


> No, that's okay, I saw it. It is very funny indeed because people seem to not know the circumstances.
> 
> VVD:
> 
> No club has offered Southampton any money for VVD.
> VVD has been offered to quadruple his wage.
> VVD has been on strike for two weeks.
> VVD is refusing to play for Southampton ever again.
> Southampton do not offer Champions League football.
> 
> Coutinho:
> 
> Liverpool has been offered money and rejected it.
> Coutinho has not been offered to quadruple his wage from 150k to 600k a week.
> Coutinho has not missed a single training session.
> Coutinho just captained Liverpool on Saturday.
> Liverpool have Champions League football.
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently VVD is going to hold talks with Southampton this week.





I'm well aware of the difference in situations, I'm talking about the fanbase attitude

At one point, we had posters on here nearly saying "Little **** club, take the money and give us VVD" Was the same for Keita - until Bundesliga fans laid out why RB doesn't need the money nor care.

Now a bigger fish is circling, and how dare they!

Liverpool and fans are Dunkin Donuts, but they think they're Joe's neighborhood coffee - family owned since 1950.


----------



## Theon

100mâ‚¬ for an inconsistent Philippe Coutinho. My goodness.


----------



## Live in the Now

No real "how dare they" here, they're just wasting their time unless Coutinho is to go on strike. If he's not going to, they should move on.


----------



## Peen

Chelsea interested in Drinkwater

Surprisingly I'm okay with this

Homegrown, will be okay with bench position and known good fit next to Kante.

.. as long as the fee is below 20m.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Live in the Now said:


> 100m offer for Coutinho rejected. They are wasting their time.





How reliable is he for English/Liverpool rumours? Some conflicting reports out there at the moment


----------



## bleedblue1223

Peen said:


> Chelsea interested in Drinkwater
> 
> Surprisingly I'm okay with this
> 
> Homegrown, will be okay with bench position and known good fit next to Kante.
> 
> .. as long as the fee is below 20m.




Yeah, Chelsea just needs someone that is homegrown, will accept a rotational role, and can reasonably fit the style if called upon.


----------



## Theon

Looks like Aurier might be the next signing after Matic.

Has he ever played as a LB, @Evilo?


----------



## hatterson

TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> How reliable is he for English/Liverpool rumours? Some conflicting reports out there at the moment




The only thing possibly conflicting is the exact amount of the bid. Everything else is pretty much dead on and everyone is telling the same story.

Klopp says he isn't going to be sold, Coutinho has given zero indication he's unhappy or wants out this summer, and Barca keeps bidding hoping Liverpool finally says yes.


----------



## Evilo

Theon said:


> Looks like Aurier might be the next signing after Matic.
> 
> Has he ever played as a LB, @Evilo?





Nah, RB or very solid CB.


----------



## hatterson

If Aurier could regain form/put the off-field stuff behind him, he'd be a great signing. Backup Valencia for now, possibly play on the left side a bit in cup games for match fitness, or fill in at CB in a pinch.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

hatterson said:


> The only thing possibly conflicting is the exact amount of the bid. Everything else is pretty much dead on and everyone is telling the same story.
> 
> Klopp says he isn't going to be sold, Coutinho has given zero indication he's unhappy or wants out this summer, and Barca keeps bidding hoping Liverpool finally says yes.




Not sure if Barca have made another bid, James Pearce just said they haven't made a 2nd offer of â‚¬90M. But yeah, this isn't in the cards for Barto, Coutinho is happy there and it will take something ridiculous to get Klopp's attention.


----------



## Evilo

hatterson said:


> If Aurier could regain form/put the off-field stuff behind him, he'd be a great signing. Backup Valencia for now, possibly play on the left side a bit in cup games for match fitness, or fill in at CB in a pinch.




Don't see him backup anyone if he's back to form.


----------



## Evilo

PSG after Dendoncker.


----------



## Power Man

Evilo said:


> PSG after Dendoncker.




Mistype?


----------



## Evilo

Power Man said:


> Mistype?




Missed the joke here...
What?


----------



## hatterson

Evilo said:


> Don't see him backup anyone if he's back to form.




The backup was around giving him time to regain form. If he's fullly back he'd be above Valencia


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Di Marzio said Barca want Demeble as a Neymar replacement. We will get Paulinho though.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Barca would be better if they eventually signed Dembele, Dybala, and Seri/another CM by next summer tbh.

I bet if Juve saw Barca with 220M+ from the Neymar sale that they'd demand almost all of it for Dybala though. I'm skeptical Barca could get both Dembele and Dybala for just the Neymar money. Will be interesting to see though.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> PSG after Dendoncker.




Lame. He's been connected to RB for a bit now to. Hopefully he'd rather start for RB in the CL than sit on PSG's bench at this point in his career; as even though money isn't a problem for RB they still don't pay that crazy of wages...yet...


----------



## Savant

cgf said:


> Lame. He's been connected to RB for a bit now to. Hopefully he'd rather start for RB in the CL than sit on PSG's bench at this point in his career; as even though money isn't a problem for RB they still don't pay that crazy of wages...yet...




Keita replacement


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

bleedblue1223 said:


> Yeah, Chelsea just needs someone that is homegrown, will accept a rotational role, and can reasonably fit the style if called upon.




Barkley!


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> I didn't get all the fuss about Barca and La Liga (lol) saying they wanted to sue PSG. Didn't make sense to me, especially after decades of Real or Barca pillaging smaller teams.
> 
> Now I understand better if what I read is true : Qatar will give Neymar 300M to be the WC ambassador. With those 300M, he'll pay his release clause of 220M and "free himself". Then he'll sign with PSG.
> 
> That is indeed a way of cheating FFP rules, which isn't fair, hence the suing talk.
> 
> With that said, when spanish teams made loan after loan and bought players for insane money before the FFP, this didn't shock anyone.
> But indeed, under FFP rules, this is cheating.
> Hopefully, they get rid of those FFP rules and get themselves a real tool to limit transfer madness.




I've not seen anything about BarÃ§a suing PSG. I've seen that they and La Liga might go to UEFA as regards PSG signing Neymar and FFP. 

As for your example, the loans you're referring to are old. On top of that the revenue the respective clubs generate covers them. If PSG as a club, and not with the help of it's owners, was able to financially make the Neymar transfer happen within FFP then there wouldn't presumably be an issue. As it stands it sounds like they may not and from what I've read UEFA will be looking into the transfer regardless of BarÃ§a or La Liga.


----------



## cgf

Savant said:


> Keita replacement




Nah that's Laimer. Dendoncker or Tousart would be the Demme/Ilsanker replacement, and Keita- (eventually Laimer-) partner.


----------



## Evilo

les Habs said:


> I've not seen anything about BarÃƒÂ§a suing PSG. I've seen that they and La Liga might go to UEFA as regards PSG signing Neymar and FFP.
> 
> As for your example, the loans you're referring to are old. On top of that the revenue the respective clubs generate covers them. If PSG as a club, and not with the help of it's owners, was able to financially make the Neymar transfer happen within FFP then there wouldn't presumably be an issue. As it stands it sounds like they may not and from what I've read UEFA will be looking into the transfer regardless of BarÃƒÂ§a or La Liga.




1/ Barca suing : it's all over the papers here.
2/ Loans : yes as I said, before the FFP.
3/ yes too much spending so they wouldn't comply to FFP. So the way they say **** you to UEFA is obvious if Neymar is using his 300M.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Yeah, I've read the claim that Barca will report Psg. Not sure if I buy it, I could see it considering te board but they would be just making a fool out of themselves.

FFP is a joke and should be treated as one. If I were PSG I'd laugh in their face if it comes to that.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## Luigi Habs

If Mahrez and Drinkwater leave Leicester, I expect them to be relegated.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Barcelona are blocking the 26M renewal bonus due to Neymar, basically waiting to see what's going to do.

This is going to be fun.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

bleedblue1223 said:


> Yeah, Chelsea just needs someone that is homegrown, will accept a rotational role, and can reasonably fit the style if called upon.




I mean, we had that in both Chalobah and Ake, but **** that right? The only compelling reason I can think of to sign Danny Drinkwater is that playing next to Kante made him look like a pretty decent player. 

If Aurier is on the market and we don't make a move because apparently we're fine with Victor Moses as our starting right back, I swear to god.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Luiginho said:


> If Mahrez and Drinkwater leave Leicester, I expect them to be relegated.




Hopefully Vardy goes down with them.


----------



## jniklast

Luiginho said:


> Barcelona are blocking the 26M renewal bonus due to Neymar, basically waiting to see what's going to do.
> 
> This is going to be fun.




Why did they make the payment due now anyway? Would the 1st of September not make much more sense for a loyalty bonus?


----------



## bleedblue1223

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> I mean, we had that in both Chalobah and Ake, but **** that right? The only compelling reason I can think of to sign Danny Drinkwater is that playing next to Kante made him look like a pretty decent player.
> 
> If Aurier is on the market and we don't make a move because apparently we're fine with Victor Moses as our starting right back, I swear to god.




They wanted more minutes, and didn't want a rotational role.


----------



## Evilo

Luiginho said:


> Barcelona are blocking the 26M renewal bonus due to Neymar, basically waiting to see what's going to do.
> 
> This is going to be fun.




Which is illegal 
They promised him that bonus last time they negociated an extension.
Never was it attached to a possible tansfer.


----------



## Evilo

Barca officals and plenty of Barca fans making it clear : you're not allowed to leave Barca on your terms.
Can't say I'm surprised.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

bleedblue1223 said:


> They wanted more minutes, and didn't want a rotational role.




With all the fronts we'll be playing on next season (and our appalling lack of depth), they would've gotten strong minutes next year.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Luiginho said:


> If Mahrez and Drinkwater leave Leicester, I expect them to be relegated.




Just no. Far from. Drinkwater wouldn't even be in Leicester's starting XI next season with Iborra coming in. Do the likes of Burnley, Brighton or Huddersfield even have one player of similar quality to Schmeichel, Maguire, Iborra, Ndidi, Iheanacho, Vardy or Slimani? Could consider putting Albrighton on that list too. 

Doubt Drinkwater is leaving anyway.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> With all the fronts we'll be playing on next season (and our appalling lack of depth), they would've gotten strong minutes next year.




I'm not completely sold. Conte was never that much of a rotation guy at Juve either. Those guys need starter minutes to take the next level in their career.


----------



## bluesfan94

Evilo said:


> Which is illegal
> They promised him that bonus last time they negociated an extension.
> Never was it attached to a possible tansfer.




At least in American contract law, there would be a pretty strong argument that he's acting in bad faith


----------



## Bon Esprit

Mohammed Sumaila from Izmir Gaziemirspor to YÃ¶rÃ¼kalispor (both Turkey) for 10 litres of olive oil. Contract length is 1 month.
Take that EPL.

https://www.welt.de/sport/fussball/article167253328/Spieler-wechselt-fuer-zehn-Liter-Olivenoel.html


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

bleedblue1223 said:


> I'm not completely sold. Conte was never that much of a rotation guy at Juve either. Those guys need starter minutes to take the next level in their career.




The lack of rotation is essentially my only beef with Conte. I'd just rather have kept Chalobah as backup in those spots rather than go out and buy Danny Drinkwater.


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> 1/ Barca suing : it's all over the papers here.
> 2/ Loans : yes as I said, before the FFP.
> 3/ yes too much spending so they wouldn't comply to FFP. So the way they say **** you to UEFA is obvious if Neymar is using his 300M.




1) Fair enough.
2) Which begs the question why you brought it up in the first place.
3) Well he'd have to sign that deal with Qatar assuming he hasn't already. Then FIFA might take issue. Who knows? Either way it'd be stupid for him to pay a penny of it without getting reimbursed by PSG.



Evilo said:


> Which is illegal
> They promised him that bonus last time they negociated an extension.
> Never was it attached to a possible tansfer.




If it was just a promise, and I don't think it was, then it isn't illegal.



Evilo said:


> Barca officals and plenty of Barca fans making it clear : you're not allowed to leave Barca on your terms.
> Can't say I'm surprised.




Well of course he's not allowed to leave on his terms because he has a contract. Pay the buyout and you're gone. Simple as that. It hasn't happened yet. Why would they agree to anything less than that?


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

Maybe Neymar and Kyrie want to play together?


----------



## Evilo

les Habs said:


> 1) Fair enough.
> 2) Which begs the question why you brought it up in the first place.
> 3) Well he'd have to sign that deal with Qatar assuming he hasn't already. Then FIFA might take issue. Who knows? Either way it'd be stupid for him to pay a penny of it without getting reimbursed by PSG.
> 
> 
> If it was just a promise, and I don't think it was, then it isn't illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Well of course he's not allowed to leave on his terms because he has a contract. Pay the buyout and you're gone. Simple as that. It hasn't happened yet. Why would they agree to anything less than that?




I told you why I brought it up. Hypocrisy. 

Not a promise it was signed. 

Nah Barca leaves you but you can't leave Barca. Sore loses are plenty in Barcelona.


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> I told you why I brought it up. Hypocrisy.
> 
> Not a promise it was signed.
> 
> Nah Barca leaves you but you can't leave Barca. Sore loses are plenty in Barcelona.




It's really not though if they've covered their debts. Different scenario under different rules that isn't applicable.

Well you posted "promised".

LOL, that's why how many players have left for nothing or even were allowed to have their contracts terminated in recent years. Were the tables turned you'd be singing a completely different tune. I would love to know what you suggest BarÃ§a do in this situation as regards Neymar and a move to PSG.


----------



## Evilo

Oh if the tables are turned? 
French teams lose their best players all the time, I'm used to it. 
OTOH, Barca fans writing traitors all over the city... LoL. Same with the board and their deals with Neymar dad. 
Sore loses.


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> Oh if the tables are turned?
> French teams lose their best players all the time, I'm used to it.
> OTOH, Barca fans writing traitors all over the city... LoL. Same with the board and their deals with Neymar dad.
> Sore loses.




I'm talking about in this particular instance. 

You're generalizing supporters. I know of other supporters who are calm as I am about him leaving. Many are not happy with Neymar, and I think that's a logical expectation.

IMO the board should pay him.


----------



## Evilo

I actually didn't generalize. I said "plenty of" and then "are plenty". 
Never wrote "all".

Not being happy he leaves is perfectly normal. But you can't deny a good portion of Barca fans are extreme sore losers. Either in those kind of moments, but also in defeat.
There's quite a portion of Barca fans are think their team is some kind of supernatural team that everyone must bow to. I know plenty of them. It's extremely dumb and those are particularly expressive these days.


----------



## Evilo

And I never said you were of that kind. We've had our disagreements, but you usually admit when your team deserves defeat.
Though you do have some Barca colored glasses on, especially on reffing (when you said refs didn't really change the outcome of the 6-1 because of some decisions in the first leg, that was quite an achievement  )


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Board has to save their face here by posturing, what with the upcoming vote of no confidence as well. Most fans want Neymar gone, him and his dad are too much of a distraction at this point.


----------



## Live in the Now

To continue VVD's strike, Southampton held a photo shoot of promotional material for this season and VVD refused to show up.


----------



## Savant

Live in the Now said:


> To continue VVD's strike, Southampton held a photo shoot of promotional material for this season and VVD refused to show up.




Refused to show, or wasn't invited?


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Evilo said:


> Which is illegal
> They promised him that bonus last time they negociated an extension.
> Never was it attached to a possible tansfer.




He (and his father) are being a dick. And you know it.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Barca have time and time again shown they are loyal to their players if they return the favour. Just ask Xavi, VV, Villa etc. Almost to a fault really.


----------



## Luigi Habs

In real transfer news, Matias Vecino undergoes medical with Inter. Inter have met his release clause at â‚¬24M.

Fiorentina with massive exodus this offseason.


----------



## Chimaera

Speaking of inter, there's a hilarious rumor that they offered 35 million pounds for Mane in the Mirror. 

Hahaha


----------



## oilers92

Vasilevskiy said:


> He (and his father) are being a dick. And you know it.




when you get into bed with a player you brought dirty is it that surprising hes going to leave the same way??


----------



## Luigi Habs

oilers92 said:


> when you get into bed with a player you brought dirty is it that surprising hes going to leave the same way??




Indeed. I want to feel sorry for Barca but I can't. The way they brought him was not clean. 

I haye what PSG are doing though. So wtv.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Other teams fans shouldn't feel sorry for Barca, as they've done worse. However it doesn't change the fact Ney is acting like a child. Not surprised given his personality.


----------



## Chimaera

The amount of cash Neymar, Sr. is raking is for all of this situation is what is distasteful. 

I'm fine with PSG going in for the bid, and heck, Barca needs to get a little bit of it every so often, because they often operate in the situation of they get whomever they want, when they want, but the sleazy elements of the transfer make it a bit tough for me to just be ok with.


----------



## Evilo

Vasilevskiy said:


> He (and his father) are being a dick. And you know it.




Really?
And now I read here he's acting like a child?

Who's acting like a child? Who's being a dick? Someone who chooses to transfer and was supposed to be given 25M€ regardless of the Barca board which doesn't want to give the promised money because the player wants to leave?

Amazing.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Evilo said:


> Really?
> And now I read here he's acting like a child?
> 
> Who's acting like a child? Who's being a dick? Someone who chooses to transfer and was supposed to be given 25MÃ¢‚Â¬ regardless of the Barca board which doesn't want to give the promised money because the player wants to leave?
> 
> Amazing.




No, he's being a dick for completing the transfer as soon as he gets the loyalty clause. The irony.

Not saying he cannot do it, or that Barca shouldn't pay. If you don't see it I cannot do anything about it.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Personally, I would pay him the 25M.€ and learn from mistakes in future contracts, fool me once... but this board will never learn until change comes.


----------



## Evilo

Vasilevskiy said:


> No, he's being a dick for completing the transfer as soon as he gets the loyalty clause. The irony.
> 
> Not saying he cannot do it, or that Barca shouldn't pay. If you don't see it I cannot do anything about it.



Of course it's ironic. But nobody would just say "hey, look, I'll leave you those 25 you told me I'd get because my son's leaving".



Vasilevskiy said:


> Personally, I would pay him the 25M.Ã¢â€šÂ¬ and learn from mistakes in future contracts, fool me once... but this board will never learn until change comes.




Pretty much.


----------



## John Pedro

Duchene2Mac ain't gonna like this 



Paredes and Ascacibar gonna be a heck of a midfield duo, though.


----------



## Evilo

John Pedro said:


> Duchene2Mac ain't gonna like this


----------



## Luigi Habs

John Pedro said:


> Duchene2Mac ain't gonna like this
> 
> 
> 
> Paredes and Ascacibar gonna be a heck of a midfield duo, though.





No way. Even I'm mad. 

It's not just random argentians going there, it's their best prospects.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

What is Zenit doing? It is not coincidence


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> Really?
> And now I read here he's acting like a child?
> 
> Who's acting like a child? Who's being a dick? Someone who chooses to transfer and was supposed to be given 25Mâ‚¬ regardless of the Barca board which doesn't want to give the promised money because the player wants to leave?
> 
> Amazing.




He is by not speaking. Whats amazing is how hard your defending him... wonder why that is?



John Pedro said:


> Duchene2Mac ain't gonna like this
> 
> 
> 
> Paredes and Ascacibar gonna be a heck of a midfield duo, though.





That just hurts the heart. 

If Argentina don't make the WC in 2026 they shouldn't act surprised.


----------



## Evilo

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> He is by not speaking. Whats amazing is how hard your defending him... wonder why that is?




Wouldn't defend him if not for those ridiculous attacks.
Barca refuses to give up the money they signed up to give him, and yet the father is a dick and the other is being a kid.

I know who's being a dick and a kid, but it's certainly Barca's board.


Look at how ridiculous all of this is !


----------



## Live in the Now

They're both dicks. Barcelona shouldn't have put that in Neymar's contract though, so if the terms of the contract are lived up to they have no ground to stand on.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> Wouldn't defend him if not for those ridiculous attacks.
> Barca refuses to give up the money they signed up to give him, and yet the father is a dick and the other is being a kid.
> 
> I know who's being a dick and a kid, but it's certainly Barca's board.
> 
> 
> Look at how ridiculous all of this is !




You want them to give up money for being loyal while he's in process of leaving. Who exactly is being the unreasonable ones?

Say he was going to City these "attacks" would still happen and you wouldn't have said a word. 

Don't be shocked in a couple of years he leaves in similar fashion to Real or City.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo defending Neymar's father when he's grifting his son's talent into â‚¬60M total of his own from both sides in one summer? Nice.


----------



## Evilo

Of course I would.
The money due is due. You can put any word on it, it's due by contract. If he had been paid in january, you would have found it normal.

It's the Barca board acting like dicks, children and sore losers. They are obliged to give the money. Do it and shut your mouth instead of talking about suing and putting the money in a lawyer's cabinet, etc...

Oh I sure won't be shocked. I'd be surprised to see Neymar stay with PSG for the rest of his career (though the city is certainly attractive when you're loaded).
Neymar is certainly not a character I've loved, and I've made it clear here and that hasn't changed.

But the ones acting petty here are Barca board, period. And all I see here is critics towards the player and his father because of due money not paid. I wonder why that is. I wonder where you were when Neymar's father acted all shady in his transfer ot Barca.
Weirdly enough, I don't remember you being in such an outrage. Are you a sore loser too?


----------



## Evilo

Deficient Mode said:


> Evilo defending Neymar's father when he's grifting his son's talent into Ã‚â‚¬60M total of his own from both sides in one summer? Nice.




Someone has once again failed to understand the issues discussed.

Surprising.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> Someone has once again failed to understand the issues discussed.
> 
> Surprising.




Someone just went on a multi-post rant that someone dared say that Neymar's father is being a dick.


----------



## Ceremony

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Other teams fans shouldn't feel sorry for Barca, as they've done worse. However it doesn't change the fact Ney is acting like a child. Not surprised given his personality.




Speaking of the impact of a player's personality on transfers, here is an interesting look at how clubs factor in a player's social media presence when looking at transfers: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40671838


----------



## Evilo

Deficient Mode said:


> Someone just went on a multi-post rant that someone dared say that Neymar's father is being a dick.



For the 25M? Heck yes. It's written in a contract and thus is due.

If acting like a dick is say "hey give me the money you owe me", then I guess he is a dick.
For sure, you would act differently and leave the 25M you are owed because... well.... you're not a dick?


----------



## Live in the Now

Well he is a dick. This isn't why. They have to pay him and they put it in a contract.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> Of course I would.
> The money due is due. You can put any word on it, it's due by contract. If he had been paid in january, you would have found it normal.
> 
> It's the Barca board acting like dicks, children and sore losers. They are obliged to give the money. Do it and shut your mouth instead of talking about suing and putting the money in a lawyer's cabinet, etc...
> 
> Oh I sure won't be shocked. I'd be surprised to see Neymar stay with PSG for the rest of his career (though the city is certainly attractive when you're loaded).
> Neymar is certainly not a character I've loved, and I've made it clear here and that hasn't changed.
> 
> But the ones acting petty here are Barca board, period. And all I see here is critics towards the player and his father because of due money not paid. I wonder why that is. I wonder where you were when Neymar's father acted all shady in his transfer ot Barca.
> Weirdly enough, I don't remember you being in such an outrage. Are you a sore loser too?




No I wouldn't have found it normal. The **** is a loyalty clause anyway? I would've found another reason to **** on the board. 

Again, way to assume. I've never wanted Neymar for obvious reasons and *****ed when the ban come up citing(wrongly) the Neymar transfer as the reason.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> For the 25M? Heck yes. It's written in a contract and thus is due.
> 
> If acting like a dick is say "hey give me the money you owe me", then I guess he is a dick.
> For sure, you would act differently and leave the 25M you are owed because... well.... you're not a dick?




He is owed the money and is also being a dick to leave the day after it is due. And for taking a huge check from PSG to move his son there.

If someone signed a prenuptial agreement that they'd get half of their spouse's wealth after three years and then divorced them after three years and one day everyone would condemn that person as being a greedy piece of ****. Same in this situation.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> Of course I would.
> The money due is due. You can put any word on it, it's due by contract. If he had been paid in january, you would have found it normal.
> 
> It's the Barca board acting like dicks, children and sore losers. They are obliged to give the money. Do it and shut your mouth instead of talking about suing and putting the money in a lawyer's cabinet, etc...
> 
> Oh I sure won't be shocked. I'd be surprised to see Neymar stay with PSG for the rest of his career (though the city is certainly attractive when you're loaded).
> Neymar is certainly not a character I've loved, and I've made it clear here and that hasn't changed.
> 
> But the ones acting petty here are Barca board, period. And all I see here is critics towards the player and his father because of due money not paid. I wonder why that is. I wonder where you were when Neymar's father acted all shady in his transfer ot Barca.
> Weirdly enough, I don't remember you being in such an outrage. Are you a sore loser too?




Neymar's father shady involvement in his first transfer came out public a year later. I thought he was a dick when I got the news. He's still a dick and a total fraud today. Regardless of how the Barca board are acting like sore losers. Don't even feel bad for them, but one doesn't negate the other.


----------



## Evilo

So he should say "hey, let's transfer Neymar july 30th so that I don't get the 25M tomorrow".
Otherwise, he'd be a dick.

Okay, got ya.


----------



## Evilo

Luiginho said:


> Neymar's father shady involvement in his first transfer came out public a year later. I thought he was a dick when I got the news. He's still a dick and a total fraud today. Regardless of how the Barca board are acting like sore losers. Don't even feel bad for them, but one doesn't negate the other.




Neymar's father is a total tool, no question, but on this instance, I find it particularly amazing that people would call HIM a dick and not Barca board instead.
OF COURSE he's going to take the money before the transfer. Everyone would.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> So he should say "hey, let's transfer Neymar july 30th so that I don't get the 25M tomorrow".
> Otherwise, he'd be a dick.
> 
> Okay, got ya.





Barca are being dicks because their not being loyal to Neymar for leaving the second he got his pay day.

Okay, got ya.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> Neymar's father is a total tool, no question, but on this instance, I find it particularly amazing that people would call HIM a dick and not Barca board instead.
> OF COURSE he's going to take the money before the transfer. Everyone would.




He was a tool to ask for such a clause in the first place. 

The vast majority of top flight footballers won't make in their careers what Neymar's father will make this summer. I hope I don't see you criticizing a player for outrageous salary demands again after you've defended a grifter like Neymar Sr demanding his €25 million


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Evilo said:


> Neymar's father is a total tool, no question, but on this instance, I find it particularly amazing that people would call HIM a dick and not Barca board instead.
> OF COURSE he's going to take the money before the transfer. Everyone would.




True, I think it's also understandable Barca is exploring legal options while the money is in a public notary. None of us know the language of the contract, I'm of the mind they should pay it and get rid of their ties with this family once and for all.

Anyways;
[Tweet]892486894143111168[/MEDIA]


----------



## S E P H

I get both sides of view concerning the Neymar vs Barcelona *********-ary going on here. Neymar wants to leave Barca because he's going to get an insane contract which probably would've never happened in Barca. Barca feels violated of PSG and Neymar Senior and want to withhold his bonuses. If it's in the contract, Barca will probably have to pay, especially if it's performance based bonuses' for the previous season. If it's time-wise bonus, as he gets 25 million Euros on 08/08/every year, then Barca might have a case since he's already on his way out it seems. In end though, 25 million is quite insignificant for both parties considering Neymar's contract and Barca's help from the Spanish Government. Barcelona will get 220 million Euros and should think twice before going after the next superstar and his beyond arrogant attitude/personality as a good amount of football superstars possess. 



- The Sun, how truly awful this newspaper is. It says that Sanchez is leaving Arsenal because he went on a direct flight from Chile to Paris, France. Then two hours later he posts a picture of himself at Arsenal's training ground in a Arsenal training shirt.  There are better ways to troll people, it's not even entertaining.

- Spanish newspaper, Don Balon (don't know how reliable) saying that because Coutinho is unavailable at any price, Barca is shifting it's priorities to Oezil. Rumoured price is Â£53. Please buy him.

- Daily Mail, so take it however you'll like, thinks Arsenal are trying to sell a decent amount of players to overhaul the club, but ones like Ox, Sanchez, Giroud, and others are getting in the way for their plan for one reason or not. Players like Perez, Debuchy, Gibbs, Wilshere, Ospina, Jenkinson, and Campbell are all waiting to hear if they're going to be sold or not. 

- It seems that Arsenal do want Seri and his buyout clause of Â£36 million, but more as a back up option if they cannot secure the transfer of Lemar says The Telegraph and SkySports. However, Peter O'Rourke from ESPNUK says that Arsenal are insanely close in finalizing a deal with Nice for Seri. 



Ceremony said:


> Speaking of the impact of a player's personality on transfers, here is an interesting look at how clubs factor in a player's social media presence when looking at transfers: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40671838




Really interesting read even if it's part of pseudo-science.


----------



## cgf

Vasilevskiy said:


> What is Zenit doing? It is not coincidence




Preparing a 150M bid for Dybala?


----------



## Deficient Mode

S E P H said:


> - Spanish newspaper, Don Balon (don't know how reliable) saying that because Coutinho is unavailable at any price, Barca is shifting it's priorities to Oezil. Rumoured price is Â£53. Please buy him.




He has one year left on his contract. They shouldn't pay nearly that much.

Also, Arsenal fans will regret their eagerness to let Ã–zil walk.


----------



## Evilo

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Barca are being dicks because their not being loyal to Neymar for leaving the second he got his pay day.
> 
> Okay, got ya.



Barca are being dicks for refusing to pay what they signed up to pay.

There, maybe you got me this time.




Deficient Mode said:


> He was a tool to ask for such a clause in the first place.
> 
> The vast majority of top flight footballers won't make in their careers what Neymar's father will make this summer. I hope I don't see you criticizing a player for outrageous salary demands again after you've defended a grifter like Neymar Sr demanding his Ã¢â€šÂ¬25 million




Tool to ask for it? Hardly. That was rather smart. Barca board was a tool to accept though.
Neymar's father can ask for all he wants, Barca should have simply said no. That's quite easy. Once they said yes, it's basically part of his salary extension. Pay and be done with it.
Absolutely ZERO link with players asking for too much. Zero.
He's not DEMANDING right now. He wants what he signed up to be paid for. It really is simple. It's part of his past contract, he should be paid what he was promised.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> Barca are being dicks for refusing to pay what they signed up to pay.
> 
> There, maybe you got me this time.




They signed up for that clause to ensure Ney's loyalty. Clearly it's done an amazing job eh? Neymars have pissed all over the integrity of the clause and that's why Barca are fuming.

There, maybe you got me this time?


----------



## bluesfan94

Again, I don't know Spanish contract law, but in American contract law, Barca wouldn't have to pay because Neymar was operating in bad faith.

Just cause something is in a contract doesn't mean it's actually valid.


----------



## Evilo

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> They signed up for that clause to ensure Ney's loyalty. Clearly it's done an amazing job eh? Neymars have pissed all over the integrity of the clause and that's why Barca are fuming.
> 
> There, maybe you got me this time?




You can call it loyalty clause or the way you want. It's part of his contract for 2016-2017. Hence should be paid.
Has Neymar refused to tour with Barca this month? Hasn't he helped in ads and everything? Until the very last moment?
He has.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> You can call it loyalty clause or the way you want. It's part of his contract for 2016-2017. Hence *should* be paid.
> Has Neymar refused to tour with Barca this month? Hasn't he helped in ads and everything? Until the very last moment?
> He has.




Subjective term. 

Barca should fight tooth and nail not to pay. Neymar signed a contract to be at barca for 2021... it's part of his contract so he should see it out. Instead he's finding a way out of it, barca is trying the same thing with that "loyalty" clause. hat really is the difference between the two?


----------



## S E P H

Deficient Mode said:


> He has one year left on his contract. They shouldn't pay nearly that much.
> 
> Also, Arsenal fans will regret their eagerness to let Ã–zil walk.



I don't think contract issues have the same affects on teams buying players compared to the NHL and trades. Very rarely do you see players end up as free agents like Lewandowski. I guarantee that Barca would sign Oezil to a new contract if they make a transfer for him, thus him being worth 53 million pounds in the end. 

We haven't won anything substantial with Oezil, so his loss wouldn't be that big. Don't get me wrong, we definitely would need to buy another CAM if we sell Mesut. However, there are many CAM's out there who have lesser talent, but are more impactful on the pitch. I would love to get the German International Oezil and keep him, but no suffice. Sell him as high as his value is going to be and invest it into another player like Niguez, Correa, Tielemans, or Boufal. 



Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Barca are being dicks because their not being loyal to Neymar for leaving the second he got his pay day.
> 
> Okay, got ya.



Sounds like Drouin 2.0, but you defended Jonathan in this case, why not Neymar?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

S E P H said:


> Sounds like Drouin 2.0, but you defended Jonathan in this case, why not Neymar?




Drouin was jerked around by an idiot coach. Neymar was given everything he needs to succeed at barca. Hell he left to go to his sisters birthday party during a match.

Players are allowed to go wherever they want, teams do not own them. However why the **** should barca be paying him money while he has one foot out the door?


----------



## bleedblue1223

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Drouin was jerked around by an idiot coach. Neymar was given everything he needs to succeed at barca. Hell he left to go to his sisters birthday party during a match.
> 
> Players are allowed to go wherever they want, teams do not own them. However why the **** should barca be paying him money while he has one foot out the door?




It depends on the language of the contract.


----------



## S E P H

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Drouin was jerked around by an idiot coach. Neymar was given everything he needs to succeed at barca. Hell he left to go to his sisters birthday party during a match.
> 
> Players are allowed to go wherever they want, teams do not own them. However why the **** should barca be paying him money while he has one foot out the door?




Drouin was 20 years old and had ZERO proven track record, but wanted top 6 minutes off the bat. Not only that, but he wanted like 4-5 million coming off his ELC. At least, in Neymar's case he shown his talent and has quite the accomplishments to be worth the money that Barca is paying him. Again, both are at fault here, but it all depends in what is in the contract, perhaps you're right about this. Since we don't have the contract and a Judge hasn't ruled in any favour, all we can do is wildly speculate. I mean if Barca doesn't want to pay him, they can absolutely stop at any second, just like how Neymar can sue them at any second as well. 

Disregarding this bonus drama, Barca is still going to get the highest transfer fee in the history of football. I get that if I was a Barca I would rather keep Neymar, since the board has been awful this window for you guys'. Hell, I wouldn't trust Wenger with 220 million, he would probably hide it in a treasure cheat and bury it in the deepest part of the English Strait. I just think that Neymar and Drouin have similar situations even if the events that lead up to them are different.


----------



## Arcade Fire

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> If Aurier is on the market and we don't make a move because apparently we're fine with Victor Moses as our starting right back, I swear to god.



If Aurier loses in court (which is very likely) he has no chance of getting a work permit in England.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Hard to have a proven track record when you stuck on the 4th line. He showed in short bursts what he could do given a chance but Cooper refused to give him a long leash. He preferred lesser players and Drouin asked for unreasonable demands to push a move out.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Drouin wasn't stuck on the 4th line...but that's hockey, so lets get back on topic.


----------



## Chimaera

I guess my only question about the whole situation is if Barca was willing to give him stupid money (maybe Messi money) in a contract, would he be moving? See, I think Barca would be willing to stump the contract, (even though they already gave him a contract) but Neymar wouldn't be willing to take it, largely because dear old Dad will get a big payout he wouldn't get if he stayed put. 

If that's the case, then I think it's worth suing and seeing what happens. 

I don't have a dog in the race, though once again, anything to make it so Barca isn't an inevitable destination for players, so the market rises is better for the club I support, but I do think that Neymar deserves any anger and upset he gets.


----------



## Edo

Barcelona ain't what it once was.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Vasilevskiy said:


> What is Zenit doing? It is not coincidence




Trying to make noise in Europe again.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Luiginho said:


> Fiorentina with massive exodus this offseason.




Yes, though it sounds like they are close to getting Emre Mor.


----------



## cgf

Milos Krasic said:


> Yes, though it sounds like they are close to getting Emre Mor.




Chiesa, Mor & Hagi would be one heck of a trio of 19 year olds.


----------



## Deficient Mode

S E P H said:


> I don't think contract issues have the same affects on teams buying players compared to the NHL and trades. Very rarely do you see players end up as free agents like Lewandowski. I guarantee that Barca would sign Oezil to a new contract if they make a transfer for him, thus him being worth 53 million pounds in the end.
> 
> We haven't won anything substantial with Oezil, so his loss wouldn't be that big. Don't get me wrong, we definitely would need to buy another CAM if we sell Mesut. However, there are many CAM's out there who have lesser talent, but are more impactful on the pitch. I would love to get the German International Oezil and keep him, but no suffice. Sell him as high as his value is going to be and invest it into another player like Niguez, Correa, Tielemans, or Boufal.
> 
> 
> Sounds like Drouin 2.0, but you defended Jonathan in this case, why not Neymar?




Players are routinely sold for far less if they have one year left on their contract than when they have 2 or more years left on their contract. That is definitely a very common trend in this sport. 

The rumored prices for 28 year old Ã–zil and Alexis with one year left on their contracts are a new high water mark for this summer's transfer craziness of their own.


----------



## East Coast Bias

bleedblue1223 said:


> Drouin wasn't stuck on the 4th line...but that's hockey, so lets get back on topic.




The topic of......international contract law?


Re transfers - it looks like United/PSG/Aurier agreed in principle to a transfer. Pending his court case of course. What are the chances he's allowed into England? I'm really not familiar with this case/situation.


----------



## The Abusement Park

East Coast Bias said:


> The topic of......international contract law?
> 
> 
> Re transfers - it looks like United/PSG/Aurier agreed in principle to a transfer. Pending his court case of course. What are the chances he's allowed into England? I'm really not familiar with this case/situation.




Not sure. He's appealing that he was assaulted by the cops and was acting in self defense if I'm not mistaken. I don't know the full story and don't know the whole story, but I hope we can sign him. If he can get his **** together he'd be an incredible signing though.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

East Coast Bias said:


> The topic of......international contract law?
> 
> 
> Re transfers - it looks like United/PSG/Aurier agreed in principle to a transfer. Pending his court case of course. What are the chances he's allowed into England? I'm really not familiar with this case/situation.




He's rich sooo


----------



## Live in the Now

They will wait to see what happens with Aurier's case (next week, I think) before allowing him in the country. If it doesn't go well then he won't be.


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> I actually didn't generalize. I said "plenty of" and then "are plenty".
> Never wrote "all".
> 
> Not being happy he leaves is perfectly normal. But you can't deny a good portion of Barca fans are extreme sore losers. Either in those kind of moments, but also in defeat.
> There's quite a portion of Barca fans are think their team is some kind of
> supernatural team that everyone must bow to. I know plenty of them. It's extremely
> dumb and those are particularly expressive these days.




Well if you look at the post I quoted you said "BarÃ§a fans" without specifying some or a few or whatever. It doesn't matter though because you can still generalize without saying "all". 

I don't see the reaction of BarÃ§a supporters particularly different from those of other clubs as regards transfers or losing. I see it from supporters of all clubs big and small. Hell, I know of Valencia supporters who destroy any player who leaves for BarÃ§a or just about any club. I've seen that from some BarÃ§a supporters as regards Neymar sure. I just don't see it any disproportionate amount to make such a statement.

Same for the "supernatural" team. If that's your experience so be it. It's not mine however, in fact lately I've seen a lot of overreaction when they compare the team to Madrid, and I don't see it as the case.



Evilo said:


> And I never said you were of that kind. We've had our disagreements, but you usually admit when your team deserves defeat.
> Though you do have some Barca colored glasses on, especially on reffing (when you said refs didn't really change the outcome of the 6-1 because of some decisions in the first leg, that was quite an achievement  )




I'm not saying you said I was in that you were accusing me. I was just offering myself up as an exception to your commentary about BarÃ§a supporters or at least "plenty of" them.

I'm going to get into the PSG tie. I'll just say that I did say that we got calls, but that if you looked at both legs of the tie it was close to even. I don't think it was like the Chelsea tie (from 09?) where it was clear the refs role was way overblown. Anyway, we totally benefited from the refs as I noted and I without re-watching the tie I wouldn't say we go through without them as a result. 


I've been quiet about Neymar. Here's where I stand right now:

-If he wants to leave he can leave. Simple as that. PSG simply have to agree a transfer or meet the conditions of the buyout clause. Like I said, I'd make then pay through the nose in a transfer deal or leave them to pay the clause, but I've already posted that.

-Neymar might as well go this Summer because if he doesn't we'll probably have a Groundhog's Day scenario again next Summer. Also if he goes this Summer BarÃ§a can play accordingly.

-My biggest concern isn't Neymar leaving and that's knowing we can't replace him because there is no one as good as he is out there right now. In fact I'd go so far as to say I'm not seeing any players that I think will reach his level. To the point though, my concern is how the club's management will spend the money.

-If PSG meet the conditions of the buyout clause or agree a transfer deal that puts them in violation of FFP then they should be punished appropriately. However a deal that would put them in violation of FFP should not be blocked (by say La Liga) because it would put PSG in violation. That's not the cadence of how things should work. 

-Neymar's father should be paid the clause that was agreed in the contract. I can see a move not to pay him if there is a legal argument not to do so, but I would think that would be pretty tough to make. I mean it doesn't look good on Neymar's father's side if a deal goes through after the fact and a court might consider that in such a case. Still I agree with you that BarÃ§a should have never agreed to such a clause at such a date in the first place. That was indeed stupid.

-This move is clearly about two things. First and foremost money. Maybe not so much on Neymar's side, but definitely on his father's. The second reason seems to me to be getting Neymar out of Messi's shadow. The first reason from Neymar's standpoint I actually understand. I'd have done it differently and tried to get a new deal with BarÃ§a and stay, but I understand the lure of that big of a pay rise. The second reason I don't understand though. Messi isn't getting older and Neymar's influence in the team is growing. On top of that he's clearly learned a lot playing with Messi and BarÃ§a has been good for Neymar. That's not to say Neymar hasn't been good for BarÃ§a or PSG won't be good for Neymar. I just don't think he's playing in Messi's shadow and he's getting bad advice in that regard.

-I think Neymar is happy at BarÃ§a. I think this saga is starting to get ugly and is probably weighing on him, but generally he's been happy and still is within the team. That doesn't mean that he doesn't want to make this move.

-PSG are spending a ridiculous amount here. If Neymar gets some Qatar deal and pays his own buyout then that changes things, but I'm still doubtful of that and as I said earlier he'd be an idiot not to make PSG cover every cent. Back to the point, I'm not so sure about PSG's move here. I'm not saying it's a bad move, but it's a huge financial outlay that may not give them any more hardware than what they'd already win. I also will likely smile if Neymar Sr milks PSG a few times over the years.

-Personally this saga has tarnished Neymar to me as a supporter. He's been an excellent player for the club across the board if you ask me. The narrative I've read out there and on this forum over the years is ridiculous. As you noted, he's also been normal in preseason thus far. Still his silence and his failure to be more forthright for me is a sign of weakness in character. He's not in an easy situation, but he created the situation and should come out and make a statement. I'm sure he will when it's all said and done, but he waited long enough such that it's damaged his reputation among supporters. It has for me probably less so than with others, but enough so such that I'll look at him less fondly than probably other players that might surprise some.


----------



## Evilo

Agreed on everything except a few :
- Neymar had a brawl in airport today in Barcelona. If you don't think there's a problem with some Barca fans you should read about it. 
- this will help PSG tremendously in terms of attractiveness. And world brand. It absolutely is a tremendous move from PSG regardless of on pitch success.


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> Agreed on everything except a few :
> - Neymar had a brawl in airport today in Barcelona. If you don't think there's a problem with some Barca fans you should read about it.
> - this will help PSG tremendously in terms of attractiveness. And world brand. It absolutely is a tremendous move from PSG regardless of on pitch success.




-I saw something about something in the airport, but I didn't see "brawl". I got the impression someone said something to him and he responded. Anyway, I do think there's a problem with some BarÃ§a fans. Duchene wants Isco and Vasilevskiy wants Ramos and Lord only knows who else. I mean we're talking serious problems.

-I think it will help them, but probably not as much as you think.


----------



## Chimaera

Winning the CL is what would help them. Until that point, they could buy whomever and it wouldn't matter too much. The stigma is not so much around who they get, because they've bought talent. It's on getting it done at this point. That's still such a big roll of the dice.


----------



## ViD

Vasilevskiy said:


> What is Zenit doing? It is not coincidence




Zenit is also buying Rigoni from what I heard.

It's a bit weird that they've been buying Argentinians only, Mancini must have some good connections there.


----------



## Edo

les Habs said:


> -I saw something about something in the airport, but I didn't see "brawl". I got the impression someone said something to him and he responded. Anyway, I do think there's a problem with some BarÃƒÂ§a fans. Duchene wants Isco and Vasilevskiy wants Ramos and Lord only knows who else. I mean we're talking serious problems.
> 
> -I think it will help them, but probably not as much as you think.




Neymar is more marketable than Messi. It's pretty huge. I may not still watch Ligue 1 games, but will definitely do my best to catch for CL game for PSG. Just because of Neymar. Very few footballers have that kind of pull.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Neymar confirms to the team that he's going to PSG.
Good riddance.

Now the fun part starts... let's see how this board of clowns spends the money


----------



## Havre

Vasilevskiy said:


> Neymar confirms to the team that he's going to PSG.
> Good riddance.
> 
> Now the fun part starts... let's see how this board of clowns spends the money




A team full of Paulinhos* 






* I actually don't mind Paulinho, but even so....


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Sancho can replace him.


----------



## jniklast

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Sancho can replace him.





He has incredible technique, but with no real improvement regarding tactics and effing passing the ball once in a while, I really doubt he'll ever get close to his potential.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

jniklast said:


> He has incredible technique, but with no real improvement regarding tactics and effing passing the ball once in a while, I really doubt he'll ever get close to his potential.




Mor's not a very smart player. All the talent, doesn't know how to use it. Didn't help that he barely played, but there weren't many minutes available. I think his spot in the squad was really hurt by Dembele being better than him. Mor is like Dembele-lite in his approach, not really room for two with such a similar approach.


----------



## Incubajerks

cgf said:


> Chiesa, Mor & Hagi would be one heck of a trio of 19 year olds.




not high on Hagi and he's far from being ready anyway, but i really like Milenkovic.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Barca still have a couple more sales to make so they may have close to 300M to bolster the club.


----------



## gphr513

Havre said:


> A team full of Paulinhos*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * I actually don't mind Paulinho, but even so....




Man, Paulinho... He came to Spurs and played like ****, then they came out and said it was because he was still "sad" about 7-1. I remember being flabbergasted at the thought that a professional athlete could be THAT traumatized by a something like 6 months later


----------



## Jussi

https://streamable.com/xnfbe


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Jussi said:


> https://streamable.com/xnfbe


----------



## RoyIsALegend

The irony of Barca trying to tap up Verratti earlier in the summer, and PSG retaliating by signing their second best player... oh my, too good.


----------



## Luigi Habs

gphr513 said:


> Man, Paulinho... He came to Spurs and played like ****, then they came out and said it was because he was still "sad" about 7-1. I remember being flabbergasted at the thought that a professional athlete could be THAT traumatized by a something like 6 months later




Paulinho is not a bad player. He was the best player in the brazilian league before he moved to Tottenham. I think for south americans moving to England is too big of a cultural shock. Granted, he moved to China (?) after he failed in England, but I think he would have succeeded more had he moved to Spain/Portugal/Italy prior to moving to England. Although I have no idea why Barcelona would want him at this point.


----------



## John Pedro

Monaco just confirmed they have signed Adama Diakhaby from Rennes.


----------



## Plato

I very much look forward to the inevitable PSG-Barcelona clash in the CL this season.


----------



## Jussi

According to Sky Sports, United no longer after Aurier.


----------



## Luigi Habs

If I'm Barca my priorities would be in that order:

1) Hazard
2) Dybala
3) Griezmann 
4) Coutinho
5) Di Maria
6) David Silva

EDIT: Forgot Dembele. Put him #2.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Conte won't be letting go of Hazard, after today's transfer that guy will be worth upwards of 150M. Prefer they go after Ousmane Dembele, and it sounds like they'll be presenting Dortmund a new offer soon


----------



## Luigi Habs

TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> I doubt Conte will let go of Hazard. Prefer they go after Ousmane Dembele, and it sounds like they'll be presenting Dortmund a new offer soon




****. How did I forget Dembele? He'd be #2 after Hazard. 

They should also have enough money to bring a top CM, they should try to bring back Thiago.


----------



## Nalens Oga

Diego Costa's rumoured price for Atletico looks like it might be 50 M GBP? Not a lot for him but hopefully enough to bring in a proper CM?



Edo said:


> Barcelona ain't what it once was.




Yeah if that annoying club could return to their pre-Frank Rijkaard days in the 2000s then I wouldn't mind one bit


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Luiginho said:


> ****. How did I forget Dembele? He'd be #2 after Hazard.
> 
> They should also have enough money to bring a top CM, they should try to bring back Thiago.




Thiago would be ideal, he's really happy in Bayern though and signed a lengthy new contract. I think you'll see Barca go after Seri


----------



## bleedblue1223

Nalens Oga said:


> Diego Costa's rumoured price for Atletico looks like it might be 50 M GBP? Not a lot for him but hopefully enough to bring in a proper CM?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah if that annoying club could return to their pre-Frank Rijkaard days in the 2000s then I wouldn't mind one bit




We don't need 4 top quality CM's, we already have Kante, Bakayoko, and Fabregas. We just need a rotational guy for the 4th spot.


----------



## Evilo

John Pedro said:


> Monaco just confirmed they have signed Adama Diakhaby from Rennes.




Tremendous signing potentially. 
I really like this guy's football talent.


----------



## cgf

Luiginho said:


> If I'm Barca my priorities would be in that order:
> 
> 1) Hazard
> 2) Dybala
> 3) Griezmann
> 4) Coutinho
> 5) Di Maria
> 6) David Silva
> 
> EDIT: Forgot Dembele. Put him #2.




1. Dybala
2. Dembele
3. Hazard

for me


----------



## Peen

If chelsea get 50m for costa, over the past 4 years they'll have had a net spend of around -15 million.

Loan system profiting pays off.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Peen said:


> If chelsea get 50m for costa, over the past 4 years they'll have had a net spend of around -15 million.
> 
> Loan system profiting pays off.




People may mock the loan army, but it's an effective business strategy. Chelsea really isn't the moneybags club like the reputation would suggest.


----------



## phisherman

bleedblue1223 said:


> People may mock the loan army, but it's an effective business strategy. Chelsea really isn't the moneybags club like the reputation would suggest.




Only because Roman is collecting his debt back.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

cgf said:


> 1. Dybala
> 2. Dembele
> 3. Hazard
> 
> for me




Dybala should be on top of the list my only concern is the shape of the team?

I think you have to abandon the 3 forward rule and go with to 9's with Lio Behind them.

If they end up with Dembele and DYbala then it gets all out of whack. This is a vital time in brace's future they cannot **** it up. As they risk handing Real the keys to dominate for the forceable future. Good thing we have a great leader in Bart to guide us.

When is Laporta coming back again? He'd bring Dybala, Laporte and Verratti.


----------



## VEGASKING

It is not the players going out on loan and being sold that is making the money. It's the players they bought for the first team, being "busts" after receiving little playing time and still being sold for a profit despite that. Not to mention selling mediocre Brazilian players to China for huge sums.


----------



## bleedblue1223

VEGASKING said:


> It is not the players going out on loan and being sold that is making the money. It's the players they bought for the first team, being "busts" after receiving little playing time and still being sold for a profit despite that. Not to mention selling mediocre Brazilian players to China for huge sums.




Chelsea has made quite a bit of money of buying cheap, loaning out, and then selling. Technically, KDB and Lukaku fit that category, those are 2 of the bigger examples. The players that we bought for first team that didn't live up to expectations have pretty much just be used to help fund their replacements. It's a combination of the 2. Ake, Traore, Atsu, and Chalobah were not bought for the 1st team. Those modest profits add up in quantity, and in some cases, there are very sizable profits from those players.


----------



## Vamos Rafa

About time a great player in his prime leaves Barcelona.


----------



## Live in the Now

Besiktas signed Alvaro Negredo. They could give some teams problems in the CL with their current lineup.


----------



## bluesfan94

Just got a notification that L'Equippe is reporting that Mbappe decides to leave. Watch him go to Barcelona. 

Hope this means Lemar leaves too


----------



## Vasilevskiy

bluesfan94 said:


> Just got a notification that L'Equippe is reporting that Mbappe decides to leave. Watch him go to Barcelona.
> 
> Hope this means Lemar leaves too




Good, let's start a bidding war with Madrid, if they sign him, they better spend more than PSG spent for Neymar.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

bluesfan94 said:


> Just got a notification that L'Equippe is reporting that Mbappe decides to leave. Watch him go to Barcelona.
> 
> Hope this means Lemar leaves too




Are they reliable?


----------



## Nalens Oga

Embarassing sensationalist headline by the BBC imo

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40804584



bleedblue1223 said:


> We don't need 4 top quality CM's, we already have Kante, Bakayoko, and Fabregas. We just need a rotational guy for the 4th spot.




I don't share the same confidence in having Bakayoko and Fabregas as possible starters like you do.


----------



## Evilo

Actually (and don't ask me how FFP would work here), Mbappe and PSG have dramatically looked closer the last few days according to all reports.
I still think he goes to Real, but there's never been a better chance for PSG to get him.
Barca and City are also interested.


----------



## Evilo

DatsyukOwns said:


> Are they reliable?




Yes.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Nalens Oga said:


> Embarassing sensationalist headline by the BBC imo
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40804584
> 
> 
> 
> I don't share the same confidence in having Bakayoko and Fabregas as possible starters like you do.




Doesn't matter what we think, only matters what Conte thinks.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## Evilo

BTW, L'Equipe reports there are two reasons for his transfer request :
1/ he was promised a competitive team and the transfers of Silva, Bakayoko and more importantly to him Mendy have convinced him the promise won't be kept.
2/ He has negociated a contract extension but Monaco hasn't made a counter in 4 weeks.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Considering the timing I'm inclined to think he sees the opportunity to play at Barca as a starter.


Mpabbe-Suarez-Messi
Dybala
Ivan-Biscuits 

With Iniesta covering

MSM you can still play off the messaging app.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Evilo said:


> Actually (and don't ask me how FFP would work here), Mbappe and PSG have dramatically looked closer the last few days according to all reports.
> I still think he goes to Real, but there's never been a better chance for PSG to get him.
> Barca and City are also interested.




If done the right way PSG can get around FFP with Neymar, but with Mbappe, I think they'd just have to accept some sort of punishment. 

If they sell the right pieces on a year-by-year basis, you can cover Neymar with the accounting. Since the transfer fee would be amortized over the life of the contract, they can offset it on a year-by-year basis with making a profit with player sales if there is a surplus between the selling transfer fee, and the remaining amount that the player has left on their books. 

Di Maria would have roughly 22 million of his fee left on the books, so if they sold him for 40 million, they'd have a surplus of 18 million to book for this year. 

Maybe my understanding is wrong, but that's at least how I understand it.

Edit: Well with that salary, either PSG just doesn't give a **** about FFP or FFP is the dumbest thing in sports.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Catalunya Radio:

We are still after Coutinho. If we fail to get him, Hazard is his replacement.

Dembele is our target for the winger.

Barcelona has ruled out chasing Mbappe.

Paulinho is not an option anymore.

Post on the Barca sub reddit


----------



## bleedblue1223

DatsyukOwns said:


> Catalunya Radio:
> 
> *We are still after Coutinho. If we fail to get him, Hazard is his replacement.*
> 
> Dembele is our target for the winger.
> 
> Barcelona has ruled out chasing Mbappe.
> 
> Paulinho is not an option anymore.
> 
> Post on the Barca sub reddit




Yeah, good luck on that. Both clubs are going to say 150 mill or **** off.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

DatsyukOwns said:


> Catalunya Radio:
> 
> *We are still after Coutinho. If we fail to get him, Hazard is his replacement.
> *
> Dembele is our target for the winger.
> 
> Barcelona has ruled out chasing Mbappe.
> 
> *Paulinho is not an option anymore.
> *
> Post on the Barca sub reddit




Still not buying the Coutinho thing. Hazard being plan B makes even less sense.

Might as well give Alena a shot tbh.

Hmm wonder why?


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Still not buying the Coutinho thing. Hazard being plan B makes even less sense.
> 
> Hmm wonder why?




RAC1 said Demeble is the Neymar replacement and they are still interested in Coutinho.

I want them to go for Demeble and Seri.


----------



## Vipers31

bleedblue1223 said:


> Yeah, good luck on that. Both clubs are going to say 150 mill or **** off.



If they even say any number on top of **** off. Who knows what that money will even get you as far as replacements go, let alone what you get for that next year. 

I don't think those players are available, period. Sucks for Barca that they had to have a buyout clause in their contracts, but that out isn't there with every guy. 



DatsyukOwns said:


> RAC1 said Demeble is the Neymar replacement and they are still interested in Coutinho.
> 
> I want them to go for Demeble and /Seri




I think they'd have a great shot at Dembele next year. Now? Don't see it. Dortmund needs him more than money, and they have zero reason to believe his value and the market will go down.


----------



## Cassano

Barca should just buy back Sanchez for 40-50m.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Vipers31 said:


> I think they'd have a great shot at Dembele next year. Now? Don't see it. Dortmund needs him more than money, and they have zero reason to believe his value and the market will go down.




Players have power to push for moves. The availability on Dembele rests on his shoulders.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Still not buying the Coutinho thing. Hazard being plan B makes even less sense.
> 
> Might as well give Alena a shot tbh.
> 
> Hmm wonder why?




Hazard as plan b is hysterical because Hazard is far far better than Coutinho


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Wee Baby Seamus said:


> Hazard as plan b is hysterical because Hazard is far far better than Coutinho




Not to mention a better fit.


----------



## Vipers31

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Players have power to push for moves. The availability on Dembele rests on his shoulders.




That's simplistic and tends to be wrong. Without any instrument for power in the contract or the circumstances, there isn't much power for Dembele right now. What is he going to do? Pout, sit on the bench for a year and cost himself a future move and millions in salary? He can make a really angry face right now and tell people how angry he is, hoping that Dortmund will get scared and fall for it. That's not a lot of power.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Not to mention a better fit.




What do you think of a 2-1-3-4 with Dybala Striker and Messi in the CAM role.


----------



## Deficient Mode

DatsyukOwns said:


> What do you think of a 2-1-3-4 with Dybala Striker and Messi in the CAM role.




7 CMs and attackers? That would be fun.


----------



## bleedblue1223

DrRecchi said:


> Barca should just buy back Sanchez for 40-50m.




Yeah, Arsenal doesn't want to sell in England, and even if Arsenal tries to up the price, he'd still be much cheaper than others.

Now, would he go back knowing that they'd be looking at a younger replacement as soon as someone would sell to them?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Vipers31 said:


> That's simplistic and tends to be wrong. Without any instrument for power in the contract or the circumstances, there isn't much power for Dembele right now. What is he going to do? Pout, sit on the bench for a year and cost himself a future move and millions in salary? He can make a really angry face right now and tell people how angry he is, hoping that Dortmund will get scared and fall for it. That's not a lot of power.




He could protest. I'm not saying it will happen but if he refuses to train and pushes for a move, there's little Dortmund can do.



DatsyukOwns said:


> What do you think of a 2-1-3-4 with Dybala Striker and Messi in the CAM role.




3 CM's?

Dybala-Suarez
Messi
Ivan-Biscuits-Iniesta

Alba-Laporte-Pique-Semdo

I like it.



Deficient Mode said:


> 7 CMs and attackers? That would be fun.




I count 6?


----------



## DatsyukOwns

bleedblue1223 said:


> Yeah, Arsenal doesn't want to sell in England, and even if Arsenal tries to up the price, he'd still be much cheaper than others.
> 
> Now, would he go back knowing that they'd be looking at a younger replacement as soon as someone would sell to them?




I think no matter what you are looking at Barca and waiting for them to make a huge signing. Now I'm not saying Sanchez is not a huge transfer but the vote of confidence is starting September 2'nd. Losing Neymar won't help there cause.

Only reason I bring it up is because most of the potiental big singings are Forwards it seems like. That's just my opionon though. Others I'm sure disagree with it


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> He could protest. I'm not saying it will happen but if he refuses to train and pushes for a move, there's little Dortmund can do.
> 
> 
> 
> 3 CM's?
> 
> Dybala-Suarez
> Messi
> Ivan-Biscuits-Iniesta
> 
> Alba-Laporte-Pique-Semdo
> 
> I like it.
> 
> I count 6?




Yeah 3 CM's. I really hope we get Dybala and or Demeble like I said. Dybala more so because him and Messi are my favourite players. Has Demeble ever played left wing?


----------



## Power Man

Lol


----------



## bleedblue1223

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> He could protest. I'm not saying it will happen but if he refuses to train and pushes for a move, there's little Dortmund can do.
> 
> 
> 
> 3 CM's?
> 
> Dybala-Suarez
> Messi
> Ivan-Biscuits-Iniesta
> 
> Alba-Laporte-Pique-Semdo
> 
> I like it.
> 
> 
> 
> I count 6?




That's a 4-3-1-2, not a 2-1-3-4.


----------



## Vipers31

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> He could protest. I'm not saying it will happen but if he refuses to train and pushes for a move, there's little Dortmund can do.




Your sentences aren't linked by logic. Yes, he could protest - which is not a position of power. He could refuse to train and push - but even in that scenario, it's all Dortmund's decision. They'd just tell him: "Look, we know it's Barca and you'd love to go there, but this isn't the time. We're not going to sell you." And by the time the transfer window closes, what do you think Dembele would do in that scenario? Keep refusing to do anything, and only hurt his chances of ever getting that dream move?

That worst case scenario you desribed is an empty bluff by Dembele, which leaves Dortmund with everything to decide. He doesn't have any lever to push. 

Mind you, I'm not saying Dortmund positively won't sell. They won't be forced to, though. Maybe they have a number in their head at which point they feel it's worth it, I won't rule that out. But with them knowing that Barca just got a fresh cheque of â‚¬220M, I don't think â‚¬100M is going to cut it.


----------



## Deficient Mode

DatsyukOwns said:


> Has Demeble ever played left wing?




Yeah.

Anyway, it is probably too late for Dembele to Barca to happen this summer now after things sort of died down recently and the Bundesliga campaign begins in two weeks. I'm not optimistic about next summer though.


----------



## Luigi Habs

spintheblackcircle said:


>





I'd love to see Ronaldo's face when he sees this. Any chance suddenly something ticks him off and he threatens to leave?


----------



## Epictetus

"Swansea CityÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â‚¬Ã‚â„¢s head coach, Paul Clement, has said Gylfi SigurdssonÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â‚¬Ã‚â„¢s proposed move to Everton could be completed ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â‚¬Ã‚Å“in the next couple of daysÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â‚¬Ã‚Â, with the clubs finalising the details of his Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£50m-rated transfer."


----------



## Vamos Rafa

Will be interesting when Neymar meet Kurzawa and Rabiot.


----------



## S E P H

Nothing will finalize with Seri with any team until the CL qualifying match is over against Ajax.

Nice will/should probably keep him if they make the CL, so Gunner fans should be cheering for Ajax. Second leg is coming up with the score being 1-1.


E: Really stoked if that L'Equipe rumour turns out to be turn and Mbappe leaves making Lemar leave. Please Arsenal get Lemar.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

110M euros is what I would want for Dembele. But I still don't think it makes any sense to sell him this summer. We don't need the money. Our net this summer is 4.5M euros gained. And with Mor likely to go, that will probably go up to near 25, so I think we might not even be done adding, instead of letting players go. 

I'd still like to add a starting RB, someone like Toljan for 15M+Passlack loan to Hoffenheim, and then I want to add a back up keeper because Weidenfeller is totally unreliable, someone like Horn for 15M, and with the Weigl injury, we need another DM, Tousart for 10M wouldn't be bad. So if anything, we should be spending, not selling. We could add a RB, a DM and a GK, keep Dembele, sell Mor, and only have a net of like 10-15M lost. And if we can get rid of someone like Rode, it could be net of 0. That way we fill our needs this summer, and next summer we can worry about buying new starters when Dembele, Aubameyang, maybe Weigl, Pulisic, Reus, Guerreiro leave.


----------



## Cucumber

neymar 222m
pogba 105m
Higuain 90m

means average players = 50m 

unbelievable. this can't get higher surely????????????????????????

most people don't even make 10m in their lifetime.


----------



## Hadoop

Damn. Neymar is actually leaving. IMO the biggest reason is that as the heir apparent to Pele in Brazilian Futbol and with the World Cup less than a year away he wanted and needed to get out of Messi shadow.

Barca fans are rightfully upset, but this is the move pretty much every Brazilian futbol fan wanted.


----------



## Live in the Now

Cucumber said:


> neymar 222m
> pogba 105m
> Higuain 90m
> 
> means average players = 50m
> 
> unbelievable. this can't get higher surely????????????????????????
> 
> most people don't even make 10m in their lifetime.




You can still get great players for cheaper if you shop in the right markets. It appears that Germany (Keita business aside), France, and Italy are not out of hand yet. Tolisso, Bakayoko, and Salah are some good examples of getting world class talents/potential without spending obscene fees. Seri too if he goes. If Sigurdsson really does go for 50m I don't even know what to say about that. 

Of course there are two separate markets. There's the big club market where clubs with money swap their players around, then the other market. The inflation is still out of control regardless of that.


----------



## johnsherdy10

Neymar move to PSG worth Â£450m in fees 
OMG 450m I can't believe


----------



## DatsyukOwns

What countries allow buyout clauses besides Spain?


----------



## Milos Krasic

PaÅ¡alić loaned to Spartak Moscow


----------



## Spring in Fialta

johnsherdy10 said:


> Neymar move to PSG worth Â£450m in fees
> OMG 450m I can't believe




It was either that or PSG outright bought Barcelona.


----------



## jniklast

DatsyukOwns said:


> What countries allow buyout clauses besides Spain?




Allow or require? It's surely allowed in any country, since I can't imagine contract law forbidding it anywhere. And as far as I know beside from Spain, in Portugal it's also required to have a buyout clause for every contract.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

jniklast said:


> Allow or require? It's surely allowed in any country, since I can't imagine contract law forbidding it anywhere. And as far as I know beside from Spain, in Portugal it's also required to have a buyout clause for every contract.




Meant to say required.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I'd still like to add a starting RB, someone like Toljan for 15M+Passlack loan to Hoffenheim




Don't think it would take that much. On the last year of his contract IIRC. Spurs rumored to be interested too.


----------



## les Habs

RoyIsALegend said:


> The irony of Barca trying to tap up Verratti earlier in the summer, and PSG retaliating by signing their second best player... oh my, too good.




 Yeah, because PSG are going to sign Neymar to retaliate. As bad as posting that is you've outdone yourself by claiming BarÃ§a tapped up Verratti and then brought up PSG signing Neymar without mention of tapping up. 



Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Alba-Laporte-Pique-Semdo
> 
> I like it.




Why would we downgrade at CB by benching Umtiti for Laporte? No thanks.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Vipers31 said:


> Your sentences aren't linked by logic. Yes, he could protest - which is not a position of power. He could refuse to train and push - but even in that scenario, it's all Dortmund's decision. They'd just tell him: "Look, we know it's Barca and you'd love to go there, but this isn't the time. We're not going to sell you." And by the time the transfer window closes, what do you think Dembele would do in that scenario? Keep refusing to do anything, and only hurt his chances of ever getting that dream move?
> 
> That worst case scenario you desribed is an empty bluff by Dembele, which leaves Dortmund with everything to decide. He doesn't have any lever to push.
> 
> Mind you, I'm not saying Dortmund positively won't sell. They won't be forced to, though. Maybe they have a number in their head at which point they feel it's worth it, I won't rule that out. But with them knowing that Barca just got a fresh cheque of â‚¬220M, I don't think â‚¬100M is going to cut it.




Seems we're in opposite ends from the Javi Martinez transfer how'd that end up?

We'll see what happens with Dembele. He's not my first or second choice but if you read only HF you'd think Barca don't have the capability of buying anyone. Nobody is for sale according to other teams fans.



les Habs said:


> Why would we downgrade at CB by benching Umtiti for Laporte? No thanks.




Oh crazy LH.


----------



## Live in the Now

Dembele and Dybala would try to force their way out, so those are the best options.

The problem is that this is happening as teams they need to buy from are ending preseason.


----------



## Vipers31

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Seems we're in opposite ends from the Javi Martinez transfer how'd that end up?



I don't quite get the reference, I think. He wanted to join Bayern, Bilbao didn't want to sell, and eventually he left via buyout. Or do you mean another transfer he was a part of?



Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> We'll see what happens with Dembele. He's not my first or second choice but if you read only HF you'd think Barca don't have the capability of buying anyone. Nobody is for sale according to other teams fans.



I mean, you're looking at the highest of high drawers here - it's pretty realistic that those guys aren't suddenly for sale all the way into August just because Barca has suddenly run into a need. Nobody - as far as I'm aware - thought these guys would be for sale all summer. Nothing really changed on that front.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Live in the Now said:


> Dembele and Dybala would try to force their way out, so those are the best options.
> 
> The problem is that this is happening as teams they need to buy from are *ending preseason.[*




Yeah, that's problematic. What barca should do is hold off buying a CM right now. You don't need to spend all of Neymar's money this window. Play your cards right and you can set yourselves up for years to match Madrid midfield. No confidence in this board to bide their time as the vote is going to be held soon and they'll want to make a splash to save their skins. Hopefully, it will prove to be in vain.

I'm thinking summer 2018, you get Isco and Saul.

Dybala-Suarez
Messi
Isco-Saul
Biscuits


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Vipers31 said:


> I don't quite get the reference, I think. He wanted to join Bayern, Bilbao didn't want to sell, and eventually he left via buyout. Or do you mean another transfer he was a part of?
> 
> 
> I mean, you're looking at the highest of high drawers here - it's pretty realistic that those guys aren't suddenly for sale all the way into August just because Barca has suddenly run into a need. Nobody - as far as I'm aware - thought these guys would be for sale all summer. Nothing really changed on that front.




Meaning I didn't think he could be moved and you did.IRRC

They probably are not for sale... it doesn't mean they won't get moved.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Dame Coutinho won't die eh?

If they think Greizz is even slightly available they should buy smart and get Saul. lol


----------



## Vipers31

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Meaning I didn't think he could be moved and you did.IRRC



Ah, okay.  That could well be true, considering there was always a rather realistic buyout option at hand at that time. We don't really have that type of out with Dembele. I'm not saying Dembele _couldn't_ be moved, by the way - I said there might well be a number in BVB's heads where they feel it's worth it. I just doubt it. 



Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> They probably are not for sale... it doesn't mean they won't get moved.



With players of that category, that's exactly what it means in the vast majority of cases.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Dame Coutinho won't die eh?
> 
> If they think Greizz is even slightly available they should buy smart and get Saul. lol





Well Greizz has a 200 million buyout which decreases to 100 in January. Saul recently signed a new contract as well correct?

Saw 107 for Coutinho but I'm not sure how legit it was.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

DatsyukOwns said:


> Well Greizz has a 200 million buyout which decreases to 100 in January. Saul recently signed a new contract as well correct?
> 
> Saw 107 for Coutinho but I'm not sure how legit it was.




Yeah, like last month a 9 year deal. 150 buyout clause. I would say that's stupid money but if you're willing to give Couts 100 million... this would be a much much better option. 

Barca have a good relationship with Atelti too so, hopefully that sweetheart deal for Villa pays off.


----------



## Live in the Now

Klopp literally just said Cou will not go, then he played on Tuesday.

Klopp asked about Coutinho/Barca: "The word is 'not' (for sale). There is no interpretation for that. There is nothing new."


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Live in the Now said:


> Klopp literally just said Cou will not go, then he played on Tuesday.




Goo Klopp

more from Balague


----------



## Live in the Now

Even if they wanted to sell Coutinho, people would be demanding the club be sold the way this summer has gone.

Can't happen.


----------



## maclean

The Countinho rumours are odd, could they just be trying to distract people so they don't get robbed as much when they try to buy a "lesser" choice? I don't even think Countinho is a great target for them. In a perfect world they'd get Dyb and Dem but I think it's more likely this window's going to end up being a net disappointment for Barca


----------



## Evilo

So it really is happenning, to my huge surprise. Medical taken already. He'll sign today and be presented tomorrow.

A few thoughts :

For PSG :
Pros : it is a major coup. 
Getting a top 5 player, in his prime, someone who is extremely marketable too is just WOW. 
Contrary to what some here have said, I think it is a fantastic move on the pitch and off the pitch. He'll move to Real or elsewhere in 3 or 4 years, and he'll get them 100-200M back at least. So it's a matter of his (huge) salary. Still don't know how they make it work with FFP, but we'll see.
On the pitch, PSG have needed a winger for some time. Draxler showed some glimpses early but faded after two months. He's an excellent 3rd behind Neymar and ADM. And if ADM fades again, Draxler or Pastore can come. He adds credibility to this idea PSG will win the CL at some point. 
Their starting XI is crazy good, their depth not so much (weakest field players as of now are ADM and Kurzawa !).
Players will want to come here, the way players are rushing to Lille to play for Bielsa. Players will get paid here and they'll want to challenge for the CL. They'll also keep Verratti with those type of moves.
Also just to give you an idea, PSG's shop is openned sunday just because of the jerseys that are going to be sold. Also the online ticket sale website exploded yesterday after too many bookings.

Cons : there really aren't any IMO. They'll pay a huge price but don't care. FFP is the only worrying part but I'm sure they took care of it.

For L1 :
Pros : absolutely HUGE move for L1. Will add a spotlight on the league everywhere on the globe. People might discover L1 is in fact a very good league when you actually watch the talent on the pitch.
Cons : Obviously, PSG go much stronger (and apparently want to buy some more). So absolutely zero competition this year for 1st, except if Emery manages to **** things up.

For Barca :
Pros : 220M to work with isn't cheap change. They can buy two or three high quality players with that Dembele+Seri+Aubameyang for instance.
Cons : clearly a sign of weakness. From trying to get Verratti to losing Neymar is hurtful. That board is obviously responsible for the whole situation.


----------



## Evilo

spintheblackcircle said:


>





Can't quite see how they got that number? Is that with endorsments maybe?
His salary is 30M/year which is 577k/week.
That's without France's huge taxes.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Evilo said:


> Can't quite see how they got that number? Is that with endorsments maybe?
> His salary is 30M/year which is 577k/week.
> That's without France's huge taxes.




http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40809505

Brazil forward Neymar will earn 865,000 euros (Â£775,477) a week when he completes his world record move from Barcelona to Paris St-Germain.

The 25-year-old's wages will equate to 45m euros (Â£40.3m) a year before tax.


----------



## Evilo

spintheblackcircle said:


> http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40809505
> 
> Brazil forward Neymar will earn 865,000 euros (Â£775,477) a week when he completes his world record move from Barcelona to Paris St-Germain.
> 
> The 25-year-old's wages will equate to 45m euros (Â£40.3m) a year before tax.



http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/...au-psg-l-etat-pourrait-toucher-le-jackpot.php
The most I could find is 35M euros (post taxes) per year and that's the highest number I've read.
Which is far less than 45 a year. It would put him in Ronaldo zone.


----------



## Evilo

Here (site specialized in business in sports), it says Neymar will get 30M post taxes :
https://www.sportune.fr/sport-busin...-psg-et-devenir-le-mieux-paye-au-monde-164518
It's the number I saw all around (didn't know if it was pre or post taxes).

All of this doesn't include bonuses and such.


----------



## Bon Esprit

According to Marca the Spanish league don't approve the Neymar transfer.

For now the German link:

http://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/n...ar-transfer-fuer-ungueltig-52752782.bild.html


----------



## Evilo

Yes League president refused the money (which he can't do), so PSG has to file a complaint to FIFA which will accept the money on behalf of the spanish federation.
It's beyond stupid, but not surprising. It serves them to absolutely nothing except looking like fools, but they have throughout the last weeks anyway. I seem to remember the spanish head of federation being a fascit to boot.

Anyway, it would be a problem is PSG planned to use Neymar this weekend (delay of a day or two), but they don't anyway.

I wonder if he'll make such a fuss when Mbappe joins Real or Barca for 180M.


----------



## Bon Esprit

According to other sources La Liga cannot block the transfer.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/4160892/la-liga-neymar-paris-saint-germain/

Need some popcorn.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

What a gong show.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Albert Rogue said Barca is willing to pay the release clause for Inigo Martinez.


----------



## Chimaera

I mean, everyone knew FFP was a joke, but I can't wait to see how they cook the books.


----------



## jniklast

Kicker says the Last Liga refused the payment because the player himself has to pay the buyout and not the new club. Would give them at least some ground to stand on.


----------



## Asiantuntija

500 millions? What the ****, at least 400 million overprize. They could buy 5 excellent player with that money, but they go for Neymar. I'm done with PSG.


----------



## bleedblue1223

So, Neymar will cost around 75-85 million euro against the books per year for 5 years for FFP purposes.


----------



## Luigi Habs

jniklast said:


> Kicker says the Last Liga refused the payment because the player himself has to pay the buyout and not the new club. Would give them at least some ground to stand on.




Why should the player pay the buyout? Is it in the contract?


----------



## Luigi Habs

bleedblue1223 said:


> So, Neymar will cost around 75-85 million euro against the books per year for 5 years for FFP purposes.




How so? If they buy out his contract in one payment, how are they allowed to do that?


----------



## YNWA14

Dayum son.

All in all I think PSG will have a very legitimate chance at winning the CL with the addition of Neymar. For example even last season take Neymar from Barcelona and put him on PSG and that tie is not even close, probably.

It'll be interesting to see how they line up...you'd think that Emery would move back to his more comfortable 4-2-3-1 formation, but I don't think that's what they played against Monaco recently so who knows. Still...

Alves - Marquinhos - Silva - Kurzawa
Verratti - Rabiot
ADM - Pastore - Neymar
Cavani​
That would be something.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

DatsyukOwns said:


> Albert Rogue said Barca is willing to pay the release clause for Inigo Martinez.




Do it, good player. Would be a very good #3


----------



## bleedblue1223

Luiginho said:


> How so? If they buy out his contract in one payment, how are they allowed to do that?




Aren't you allowed to amortize the transfer fee over the life of the contract for accounting purposes? They would have to pay the fee upfront, but for accounting purposes which FFP cares about, they'd be able to spread it out. That's at least been my understanding of FFP.

I think it's why the loan-to-sell has been more popular recently. Since any gain or loss on a sale has to get booked at that time, if you loan them out and get a payment to cover the short-term, and once the full sale price would become a surplus, then they officially sell the player, instead of having to take an accounting loss on the player.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Curtinho said:


> Dayum son.
> 
> All in all I think PSG will have a very legitimate chance at winning the CL with the addition of Neymar. For example even last season take Neymar from Barcelona and put him on PSG and that tie is not even close, probably.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how they line up...you'd think that Emery would move back to his more comfortable 4-2-3-1 formation, but I don't think that's what they played against Monaco recently so who knows. Still...
> 
> Alves - Marquinhos - Silva - Kurzawa
> Verratti - Rabiot
> ADM - Pastore - Neymar
> Cavani​
> That would be something.




Nice team but not good enough to beat Madrid


----------



## bleedblue1223

Curtinho said:


> Dayum son.
> 
> All in all I think PSG will have a very legitimate chance at winning the CL with the addition of Neymar. For example even last season take Neymar from Barcelona and put him on PSG and that tie is not even close, probably.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how they line up...you'd think that Emery would move back to his more comfortable 4-2-3-1 formation, but I don't think that's what they played against Monaco recently so who knows. Still...
> 
> Alves - Marquinhos - Silva - Kurzawa
> Verratti - Rabiot
> ADM - Pastore - Neymar
> Cavani​
> That would be something.




I think ADM could be sold, but still, they will have a really good lineup that will do a lot of damage.


----------



## hatterson

Luiginho said:


> Why should the player pay the buyout? Is it in the contract?




Sounds like it's how Spanish buyout clauses work, probably due to Spanish law.

From what I've read, the buying team basically deposits it with La Liga on behalf of the player and it's then forwarded to the selling club. Also apparently in 2016 these transactions became tax free, previously they would have carried a 48% tax.


----------



## jniklast

Luiginho said:


> Why should the player pay the buyout? Is it in the contract?




Well, the buy out clause is mandatory due to Spanish labour law, so it is likely a right for the employee to buy out his contract, not for other employers.


----------



## Luigi Habs

hatterson said:


> Sounds like it's how Spanish buyout clauses work, probably due to Spanish law.
> 
> From what I've read, the buying team basically deposits it with La Liga on behalf of the player and it's then forwarded to the selling club. Also apparently in 2016 these transactions became tax free, previously they would have carried a 48% tax.




And why would PSG not know that already? 

Anyway, all this is a waste of energy, since Neymar will be playing with PSG no matter what.


----------



## hatterson

Luiginho said:


> And why would PSG not know that already?
> 
> Anyway, all this is a waste of energy, since Neymar will be playing with PSG no matter what.




It sounds like they did and they've done things proper, La Liga is just trying to be dicks to throw a wrench in it.


----------



## jniklast

Luiginho said:


> And why would PSG not know that already?
> 
> Anyway, all this is a waste of energy, since Neymar will be playing with PSG no matter what.




From what I have read, in the past La Liga has simply accepted the money, even if it was deposited by a club, even though technically the player has to pay it. In practice this would likely mean that Neymar indeed has to pay taxes on the money he gets to pay the fee, so it makes it more expensive in the end.

Obviously La Liga is doing it out of spite to make the transfer as difficult as possible. But you are if course right, the transfer will get through eventually anyway. But just like Barca with the 25M payment they are acting childish.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Yeah, La Liga is just whining, saying that they can't afford it without breaking FFP and that it's impossible that PSG can bring in as much as Real or Barca.


----------



## Asiantuntija

Ridiculous prize. I can't believe this is really happening. Weirdest transfer i've ever seen. Neymar ain't that good.


----------



## YNWA14

All fees and such aside it really is fun to watch how indignant and petulant the big clubs get when what they do to other clubs constantly happens to them. As though there is some kind of expected hierarchy and you're just not allowed to do this.

I'm happy it's happening. At the end of the day if it opens up the footballing landscape even a little bit to allow for less of a monopoly at the top of all the best players in the world that's a great thing for soccer in general.


----------



## jniklast

Yeah, I mean I get that Barca are unhappy that he's leaving and also the timing is really bad for them, but they act as if it is their prerogative to have all the best players and only let them go if they want. And La Liga is playing along.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Curtinho said:


> All fees and such aside it really is fun to watch how indignant and petulant the big clubs get when what they do to other clubs constantly happens to them. As though there is some kind of expected hierarchy and you're just not allowed to do this.
> 
> I'm happy it's happening. At the end of the day if it opens up the footballing landscape even a little bit to allow for less of a monopoly at the top of all the best players in the world that's a great thing for soccer in general.




Yep, this is why FFP does more harm than good. 

Now maybe this is just in NA sports culture, but most fans want to see teams like Leicester rise up and win. Not sure how majority of Euro fans feel about that or if they like having the few powerful elite clubs at the top.


----------



## Suiteness

Curtinho said:


> I'm happy it's happening. At the end of the day if it opens up the footballing landscape even a little bit to allow for less of a monopoly at the top of all the best players in the world that's a great thing for soccer in general.




Let's be real here, how many teams could have ponied up that ridiculous amount of money? Players like Neymar in their primes won't be heading up to Sunderland or West Ham anytime soon.


----------



## YNWA14

More and more teams are getting rich owners. But I obviously wasn't saying that anyway.

Obviously Neymar and PSG are a special case, and that will continue and the teams that play in the CL and have a chance of winning their respective league/trophies will always have an advantage...but maybe with a bit more of this we'll see the talent spread out a bit more among those teams and not just centralized at Real/Barca as it has been in the recent past.


----------



## Jeffrey

jniklast said:


> Yeah, I mean I get that Barca are unhappy that he's leaving and also the timing is really bad for them, but they act as if it is their prerogative to have all the best players and only let them go if they want. And La Liga is playing along.



I agree if this happened to Sporting Gijon they would not have given a ****.


----------



## chasespace

So, will FIFA try something new to reign in spending as FFP doesn't seem to have teeth?


----------



## jniklast

chasespace said:


> So, will FIFA try something new to reign in spending as FFP doesn't seem to have teeth?




I don't see any real possibility that would conform to EU law.


----------



## bleedblue1223

jniklast said:


> I don't see any real possibility that would conform to EU law.




Is a salary cap not possible under EU law? Is the NA sports setup just simply not possible?


----------



## cgf

bleedblue1223 said:


> Is a salary cap not possible under EU law? Is the NA sports setup just simply not possible?




No it isn't not. And I wouldn't want a salary cap if it was...even though my team's record signing was 1.5M euros. NA sports are crippled by parody; I'd rather watch concentrated excellence that raises the bar for everyone than ubiquitous mediocrity.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Asiantuntija said:


> Ridiculous prize. I can't believe this is really happening. Weirdest transfer i've ever seen. Neymar ain't that good.




Neymar is a big gamer. Top 5 player in the world. The amount is ridiculous, but that was the only PSG could have signed him. He'll never be at Messi or Ronaldo's level, but as it stands, I see him as a Ballon D'or winner in the near future.


----------



## jniklast

bleedblue1223 said:


> Is a salary cap not possible under EU law?




Hardly, since it would be likely collusion that would obviously be to the detriment of the employees (the players). And that's not even considering the practical differences like currency fluctuations, countries with different labour laws and most importantly the very different economical circumstances between the leagues.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Yeah, I mean it's either a salary cap of some sort or just a free market where you let the owners spend how they want to spend.

Either put everyone on the same playing field or allow billionaire owners to take over clubs and join the elite class.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Asiantuntija said:


> Ridiculous prize. I can't believe this is really happening. Weirdest transfer i've ever seen. Neymar ain't that good.




Neymar is the only player in the world I'd be willing to spend 200+mil on(even if it is a ridiculous price). Dude's legit and only 25.

And Messi as well, duh.


----------



## jniklast

bleedblue1223 said:


> Yeah, I mean it's either a salary cap of some sort or just a free market where you let the owners spend how they want to spend.
> 
> Either put everyone on the same playing field or allow billionaire owners to take over clubs and join the elite class.




Well it is basically a free market. FFP is a paper tiger at best exact because UEFA doesn't want to risk a lawsuit. It really is only a method to punish teams making too much debt. It hasn't hit an investor club since City had to reduce their CL squad by what? 2 players? This Neymar saga is the first time FFP has popped up in years and I don't expect anything happening regarding it.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Max Meyer seems to want out.....come on Levy, do something.


----------



## chasespace

jniklast said:


> I don't see any real possibility that would conform to EU law.




Would a luxury tax on transfers over $X work or would that still run against EU law?


----------



## gphr513

spintheblackcircle said:


> Max Meyer seems to want out.....come on Levy, do something.




It is a little concerning that NOBODY has been brought in. Spurs have got to bring in some depth if they want to win the league.


----------



## YNWA14

The problem with a salary cap is that you're talking about many different leagues and there would be no way of properly implementing it.



Luiginho said:


> Neymar is a big gamer. Top 5 player in the world. The amount is ridiculous, but that was the only PSG could have signed him. *He'll never be at Messi or Ronaldo's level*, but as it stands, I see him as a Ballon D'or winner in the near future.




That's a bold statement to make. You could make the argument he's close already and still pretty young, and if you take international games into account well...


----------



## bleedblue1223

Curtinho said:


> The problem with a salary cap is that you're talking about many different leagues and there would be no way of properly implementing it.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a bold statement to make. You could make the argument he's close already and still pretty young, and if you take international games into account well...




The only way a salary cap would work in theory, would be to set certain %'s for max and min for league-wide revenue that each league would apply. So every UEFA league would have the same %, but different caps.


----------



## bleedblue1223

chasespace said:


> Would a luxury tax on transfers over $X work or would that still run against EU law?




Even if it did, it really wouldn't stop much and how does that money get distributed?


----------



## chasespace

bleedblue1223 said:


> Even if it did, it really wouldn't stop much and how does that money get distributed?




Could distribute it to domestic cups with the bulk of the money being aimed at the earlier rounds where smaller clubs tends to play.


----------



## bleedblue1223

chasespace said:


> Could distribute it to domestic cups with the bulk of the money being aimed at the earlier rounds where smaller clubs tends to play.




But, would it be for just the league that the transfer came from or all UEFA leagues? Eventually it gets so diluted that it doesn't help anyone and just hurts a big club for the sake of hurting them.


----------



## Evilo

Now, french federation is asking spanish federation to respect the FIFA rules and to stay at its place


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

spintheblackcircle said:


> Max Meyer seems to want out.....come on Levy, do something.




No way Poch would want that attitude.


----------



## The Abusement Park

Curtinho said:


> That's a bold statement to make. You could make the argument he's close already and still pretty young, and if you take international games into account well...




I don't think it is, while he's been better on the international stage than both, but I don't think it's that close in the league and in CL. Which is more a testament to how good Messi and Ronaldo have been throughout their careers.


----------



## jniklast

chasespace said:


> Would a luxury tax on transfers over $X work or would that still run against EU law?




I think first of all the EU has no power to create any tax and much less so the UEFA of course and secondly I would guess that such an arbitrary tax solely target at a few companies would also not work.

But of course UEFA could just change the distribution of the money it dishes out, favoring small clubs. But you know they (or rather the clubs) don't want that as they just did the opposite.

If there was a true will to change something, then I'm sure a lot could be done. But the truth is that it's the powerful and rich clubs which do not want change - which makes Barca's crying even more hypocritic.


----------



## jniklast

bleedblue1223 said:


> The only way a salary cap would work in theory, would be to set certain %'s for max and min for league-wide revenue that each league would apply. So every UEFA league would have the same %, but different caps.




But that would create even more inequality, making it even harder for clubs from smaller leagues to compete in Europe. And of course it wouldn't fly with EU law anyway.


----------



## bleedblue1223

jniklast said:


> But that would create even more inequality, making it even harder for clubs from smaller leagues to compete in Europe. And of course it wouldn't fly with EU law anyway.




And not to get too political, but this is partly why Brexit happened. This would be like the US, Canada, and Mexico getting together and making a law that would affect all 3, inevitably, it's going to screw over one or multiple in the group.

I say just leave it the way it was before FFP. Get rid of that, and let the billionaire owners go crazy if they want to, it's their money. If they want to take on debt and go bankrupt, then why stop them.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Price being quoted in Spain is 90-100M for Dembele, still early though.


----------



## hatterson

jniklast said:


> But that would create even more inequality, making it even harder for clubs from smaller leagues to compete in Europe. And of course it wouldn't fly with EU law anyway.




Clubs from small leagues are always going to have issues unless you implement a system where all revenues (or a significant portion of them) are collected from all UEFA members and equally split. That's not really a solution anyone supports on any level.

MU, RM, Barca, PSG, etc. will always have a massive advantage over random club in Andorra simply because of their global footprint. That's never being solved.


----------



## Evilo

Spanish federation saying they aren't sure of the origin of money while cashing in on the same money for TV rights (BeInSport) and Barca through their sponsor (Qatar Airways) is so hypocritical it's crazy fun.


----------



## phisherman

bleedblue1223 said:


> I say just leave it the way it was before FFP. Get rid of that, and let the billionaire owners go crazy if they want to, it's their money. If they want to take on debt and go bankrupt, then why stop them.




Because you end up with cases where the supporters of the team will be punished if their team goes bankrupt.

I also find it funny how North Americans are proposing North American solutions to this. It would be like Europeans saying MLS should have Promotion/Relegation.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> Price being quoted in Spain is 90-100M for Dembele, still early though.




Thats still too low, I think. 106 minimum, otherwise I'd hang up the phone.

If we are selling Dembele, it should have to be for a previous world record, otherwise it sends a terrible message.


----------



## bleedblue1223

phisherman said:


> Because you end up with cases where the supporters of the team will be punished if their team goes bankrupt.
> 
> I also find it funny how North Americans are proposing North American solutions to this. It would be like Europeans saying MLS should have Promotion/Relegation.




I'm not promoting anything, I'm genuinely curious of what would legally work. It's just too easy to get around FFP on basic accounting principles, none of it requires anything that sketchy or true cooking of the books.

Personally, I think any sport should have a hard-cap or nothing. I don't like the NBA's soft-cap or baseball's luxury tax.

As far as the fans getting punished, sure, but that happens in every sports league and every business (for shareholders). You can't put in a law to force teams to make sound business decisions with positive economic outcomes.


----------



## maclean

If Bale really does move back to England to make room for Mbappe this is going to be the craziest transfer window I can remember


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Thats still too low, I think. 106 minimum, otherwise I'd hang up the phone.
> 
> If we are selling Dembele, it should have to be for a previous world record, otherwise it sends a terrible message.




I can see it ballooning past whatever figure they report with add-on variables. It's early though, I'm not sure if this will go through this summer


----------



## jniklast

bleedblue1223 said:


> And not to get too political, but this is partly why Brexit happened. This would be like the US, Canada, and Mexico getting together and making a law that would affect all 3, inevitably, it's going to screw over one or multiple in the group.
> 
> I say just leave it the way it was before FFP. Get rid of that, and let the billionaire owners go crazy if they want to, it's their money. If they want to take on debt and go bankrupt, then why stop them.




Huh? That would be quite the opposite, if every league had a different salary cap and exactly that would severly violate EU laws.

And I think you really overestimate the effect of FFP regarding billionaire investment, in reality it does nothing to stop that. Currently the only cases where FFP is applied are Eastern European teams with too much debt.



TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> Price being quoted in Spain is 90-100M for Dembele, still early though.




No way that's enough. Maybe 100M would've got Dortmund listening at the start of the transfer window, but surely not now. They don't need the money, Dembele is under contract for four more years with no buy out and they would not be able to get a proper replacement. The sum would have to be ridiculous to get BVB to sell this summer (my guess would be 140-150M).


----------



## YNWA14

The other problem with making it percentage based would mean England would be far and away the most attractive destination for any player given their massive financial superiority.

I agree with getting rid of FFP, but at the end of the day nothing matters right now. There's probably a real solution if you sit down and think about it but at the moment the money in soccer is beyond ridiculous and it won't change any time soon.


----------



## bleedblue1223

jniklast said:


> Huh? That would be quite the opposite, if every league had a different salary cap and exactly that would severly violate EU laws.
> 
> And I think you really overestimate the effect of FFP regarding billionaire investment, in reality it does nothing to stop that. Currently the only cases where FFP is applied are Eastern European teams with too much debt.




Fair enough.

Then there is just a ton of public misconception of it, on all levels, including the actual clubs.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Curtinho said:


> The other problem with making it percentage based would mean England would be far and away the most attractive destination for any player given their massive financial superiority.
> 
> I agree with getting rid of FFP, but at the end of the day nothing matters right now. There's probably a real solution if you sit down and think about it but at the moment the money in soccer is beyond ridiculous and it won't change any time soon.




I'm in no way saying that would be a good solution for the EU, it apparently a bad solution that wouldn't work. But, if there's no good way to limit the big spending, then people should stop complaining about clubs like PSG, City, Chelsea, Milan, etc.


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> So it really is happenning, to my huge surprise. Medical taken already. He'll sign today and be presented tomorrow.
> 
> A few thoughts :
> 
> For PSG :
> Pros : it is a major coup.
> Getting a top 5 player, in his prime, someone who is extremely marketable too is just WOW.
> Contrary to what some here have said, I think it is a fantastic move on the pitch and off the pitch. He'll move to Real or elsewhere in 3 or 4 years, and he'll get them 100-200M back at least. So it's a matter of his (huge) salary. Still don't know how they make it work with FFP, but we'll see.
> On the pitch, PSG have needed a winger for some time. Draxler showed some glimpses early but faded after two months. He's an excellent 3rd behind Neymar and ADM. And if ADM fades again, Draxler or Pastore can come. He adds credibility to this idea PSG will win the CL at some point.
> Their starting XI is crazy good, their depth not so much (weakest field players as of now are ADM and Kurzawa !).
> Players will want to come here, the way players are rushing to Lille to play for Bielsa. Players will get paid here and they'll want to challenge for the CL. They'll also keep Verratti with those type of moves.
> Also just to give you an idea, PSG's shop is openned sunday just because of the jerseys that are going to be sold. Also the online ticket sale website exploded yesterday after too many bookings.
> 
> Cons : there really aren't any IMO. They'll pay a huge price but don't care. FFP is the only worrying part but I'm sure they took care of it.
> 
> For L1 :
> Pros : absolutely HUGE move for L1. Will add a spotlight on the league everywhere on the globe. People might discover L1 is in fact a very good league when you actually watch the talent on the pitch.
> Cons : Obviously, PSG go much stronger (and apparently want to buy some more). So absolutely zero competition this year for 1st, except if Emery manages to **** things up.
> 
> For Barca :
> Pros : 220M to work with isn't cheap change. They can buy two or three high quality players with that Dembele+Seri+Aubameyang for instance.
> Cons : clearly a sign of weakness. From trying to get Verratti to losing Neymar is hurtful. That board is obviously responsible for the whole situation.




I wouldn't call that big a coup though if you think about it. PSG have the money (if not by the rules) and this was largely a money move. If PSG don't have that sort of cash it doesn't happen. That said Neymar is a big addition to the team you'll soon realize the level he is actually at. It should definitely pay off on the pitch and off the pitch. In the case of the latter I don't think it'll pay off quite as much as you probably do. He's not the most popular player out there from what I can tell, though I think that will change to a degree, and as someone else noted the other day I think PSG has to win the CL for it to really pay off. Otherwise Neymar would have to do something big with Brazil.

While I agree this doesn't look good for the board, I think that's being overblown. Trying to get Verratti looks bad not so much because they didn't get him but because they wasted time trying when PSG weren't selling. That said it looks like the player was more than open to the move himself. Losing Neymar hurts, but again nothing they could really do apart from pay him what PSG will, which explodes the wage structure to a degree, on top of another 40 million to his father and Lord knows what else. What happens next is what is important for them. Dembele would be great, but Seri and Aubameyang would be exactly not how you spend that money.



Evilo said:


> Yes League president refused the money (which he can't do), so PSG has to file a complaint to FIFA which will accept the money on behalf of the spanish federation.
> It's beyond stupid, but not surprising. It serves them to absolutely nothing except looking like fools, but they have throughout the last weeks anyway. I seem to remember the spanish head of federation being a fascit to boot.
> 
> Anyway, it would be a problem is PSG planned to use Neymar this weekend (delay of a day or two), but they don't anyway.
> 
> I wonder if he'll make such a fuss when Mbappe joins Real or Barca for 180M.




To be clear here, Tebas is a clown and no friend of BarÃ§a. This move doesn't help BarÃ§a either way and from everything I've read the club was ready for him to go days ago.



DatsyukOwns said:


> Albert Rogue said Barca is willing to pay the release clause for Inigo Martinez.






Vasilevskiy said:


> Do it, good player. Would be a very good #3




Small-minded signing and smacks of this board and quite probably Valverde. Next thing I know Duchene will be calling for Martinez to start over Umtiti.



bleedblue1223 said:


> Aren't you allowed to amortize the transfer fee over the life of the contract for accounting purposes? They would have to pay the fee upfront, but for accounting purposes which FFP cares about, they'd be able to spread it out. That's at least been my understanding of FFP.




I would think not in the case of a buyout as the money has to be paid upfront. 



Vasilevskiy said:


> Nice team but not good enough to beat Madrid




Definitely good enough to beat Madrid, but it could go either way. Without Neymar BarÃ§a can beat Madrid.



Curtinho said:


> All fees and such aside it really is fun to watch how indignant and petulant the big clubs get when what they do to other clubs constantly happens to them. As though there is some kind of expected hierarchy and you're just not allowed to do this.




 Exactly how is BarÃ§a being petulant and indignant?



jniklast said:


> Yeah, I mean I get that Barca are unhappy that he's leaving and also the timing is really bad for them, but they act as if it is their prerogative to have all the best players and only let them go if they want. And La Liga is playing along.




How are BarÃ§a acting as though it's their prerogative to have all the best players? La Liga isn't playing along because there isn't anything to play along to. La Liga are acting for their own reasons and whatever those are, stated or otherwise, they're not helping BarÃ§a right now.


----------



## jniklast

bleedblue1223 said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> Then there is just a ton of public misconception of it, on all levels, including the actual clubs.




Which club, apart from Barca now, has cared much about FFP in the past few years? UEFA hasn't blocked a single sponsorship deal afaik, no matter how ridiculous it was. So all an investor has to do is label his money as sponsorship and they are good.


----------



## Live in the Now

The long term ramifications of this transfer and other big transfers this summer are that big clubs will rarely exchange players amongst each other anymore because they all have too much money. Unless of course the player has a release clause, which I think may become a little more common.


----------



## les Habs

maclean said:


> If Bale really does move back to England to make room for Mbappe this is going to be the craziest transfer window I can remember




Hopefully Bale stays exactly where he is.


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

La Liga refusing to allow transfer?


----------



## jniklast

les Habs said:


> How are BarÃƒÂ§a acting as though it's their prerogative to have all the best players? La Liga isn't playing along because there isn't anything to play along to. La Liga are acting for their own reasons and whatever those are, stated or otherwise, they're not helping BarÃƒÂ§a right now.




By holding back the money owed to Neymar just because he is leaving? Also by suddenly arguing about FFP when it's one of their players leaving. Did they care about it when PSG bought any other players from somewhere else for ridiculous money?

Maybe you're right and La Liga is acting on their own, but just like someone else has said, I have my doubts that they would've cared much where the money came from if it was Sporting Gijon and not Barca.


----------



## les Habs

Sounds like Neymar has now made payment directly to BarÃ§a.



MrFunnyWobbl said:


> La Liga refusing to allow transfer?




More so refusing to take the buyout payment, but yes.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

MrFunnyWobbl said:


> La Liga refusing to allow transfer?




They will step aside if Barca accepts Neymar's buyout. It sounds like they will do just that soon.

Edit; Yup, as Les Habs said, it's finally over. Barca has more than 300M to work with


----------



## YNWA14

I think Bale would very much suit a Mourinho or Conte type team but I don't see him moving just yet. If United managed to get him I'd be pretty afraid of what they could do domestically and in Europe...and I hate United.

Like honestly...

Matic - Herrera
Pogba
Mkhi ----------------- Bale
Lukaku​
That's...top notch, unfortunately.


----------



## les Habs

jniklast said:


> By holding back the money owed to Neymar just because he is leaving? Also by suddenly arguing about FFP when it's one of their players leaving. Did they care about it when PSG bought any other players from somewhere else for ridiculous money?
> 
> Maybe you're right and La Liga is acting on their own, but just like someone else has said, I have my doubts that they would've cared much where the money came from if it was Sporting Gijon and not Barca.




BarÃ§a isn't holding back any money from Neymar. They've deposited money due his father to a notary. It sounds as though there is legal precedence for them in that case considering how all of this went down. It's no coincidence this deal is happening now as opposed to a week ago. 

As for PSG and FFP, for starters PSG has already been punished and on top of that it's not like they're constantly violating FFP. This is a different case with the money involved which I would have thought was obvious. Second, this has to do with them and their player so of course they're going to be motivated to argue FFP. 

Everything else being the same I'd bet La Liga would be acting the same were it Sporting.


----------



## Live in the Now

Curtinho said:


> I think Bale would very much suit a Mourinho or Conte type team but I don't see him moving just yet. If United managed to get him I'd be pretty afraid of what they could do domestically and in Europe...and I hate United.
> 
> Like honestly...
> 
> Matic - Herrera
> Pogba
> Mkhi ----------------- Bale
> Lukaku​
> That's...top notch, unfortunately.




Bale was injured for most of last season and is injured right now. For obvious reasons no team can count on him playing every week.


----------



## hatterson

Yea, Bale would be an awesome addition when healthy, but there's no chance I'd count on that and thus no chance I'd be willing to pay what RM would want for him.


----------



## les Habs

TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> They will step aside if Barca accepts Neymar's buyout. It sounds like they will do just that soon.
> 
> Edit; Yup, as Les Habs said, it's finally over. Barca has more than 300M to work with




So BarÃ§a accept payment and La Liga does not but somehow they are in cahoots. The strategies this forum invents.

I don't know about 300 million. They may have it and could easily get it with more sales. They've also freed up good money on the wages end. Either way I'm not confident in what this board can do in this time frame. Hopefully Inigo Martinez isn't the answer.


----------



## YNWA14

Live in the Now said:


> Bale was injured for most of last season and is injured right now. For obvious reasons no team can count on him playing every week.




Sure, but having him for the most important games would be worth the price that United can surely afford to pay. If you get a Spurs/Wales level Bale, in which Mourinho or Conte can both facilitate with their styles, you have one of the best attackers in the world and a true difference maker.

Obviously health is a concern, but it's a risk you take when the guy can bring you trophies and certainly is one of the few players in the world that can take your team up a level nearly by himself.


----------



## Peen

Hazard Morata Bale sounds better to me.


----------



## les Habs

I can't see why anyone would want their club to sign Bale other than in a knockdown price. So many better ways to spend that sort of money.


----------



## Evilo

Les Habs, who should Barca buy with those 250-300M in your opinion?


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

The Neymar transfer just shows that if there's any sort of loophole..it will be found and taken by the very unscrupulous (i.e. 99% of people involved in top level football).

For the not involved outsider it means relatively little. PSG are a bit closer to a CL trophy (but by no means guaranteed it) and Barca will have to revamp their squad a bit. I think it's actually terrible primarily for Ligue 1 because it further cements the lack of competitive balance in that league. PSG take L1 for granted and all their moves are for the CL. It actually represents a total devaluation of the league and really why would Qatari billionaires give a lick about the French domestic league?


----------



## Theon

Great player but his injury record is beginning to resemble that of Wilshere/Diaby. With the fee he'd cost, no thanks.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Didn't he limp off the other day vs United? Made out of glass

E: Happened in practice, but still..


----------



## Burner Account

If Bale came to Liverpool he would look tough as nails on the same team as Sturridge


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> Les Habs, who should Barca buy with those 250-300M in your opinion?




Pfff... That's a tough one. I'm actually happy with a lot of the squad right now from a starting XI standpoint, but I'm not thrilled with depth. 

We need a Neymar "replacement". I'll come right out and say part of me would love to see what Deulofeu could do in a full season playing with Messi and Suarez. That said I would find a replacement and Dembele would be my #1 target. He'd be expensive, but the least expensive option of the players that say should be considered and I think how his plays translates the best (unless Hazard is an option, but I'd still go Dembele). For me he's the closest to a direct replacement.

CM is a concern for me still. That said I don't think the best options are available. Fabinho stands out to me right now. It would be dependent price, but worse case scenario he's a 12th man for years to come. I don't mean that as a slight as rate him more highly than that. I just love his versatility and if say we bought a Verrattiesque CM in a year at least he could cover multiple positions. 

I'd have a look at CB. Really haven't followed the market too closely in terms of availablity. I mean I know de Vrij for example would probably be cheap. I'm sure a deal could be done for Laporte. Some youngsters are interesting, guys like Sarr. However the more "guaranteed" and "smart" play to me seems to be Davinson Sanchez. Wouldn't cost a lot and has great experience (not just in Europe now with the EL and to a lesser extent Ajax, but also with the the Copa Libertadores which we won). 

I'd consider a change at LB. Sounds as though Sandro was on the block and so that's a player I'd explore. I also like Dalbert at the right price.

That just leaves one more big signing. Dybala? Mbappe'? I'd welcome one or the other, with Dembele, but then you need to change formation or prepare for a potential headache. The point though is we should go for two top drawer players. Losing Neymar and having that sort of money I would think long term. 

Of course the above would require some sales. Vermaelen, Digne, Gomes, Turan, Denis, Douglas, Munir and Paco could all go if the above happened. I'd be willing to see Alba, Mascherano, Rafinha and Iniesta go as well under the right circumstances, but I'd prefer they stay. Marlon is a wild card if he could go back to down to the B team. Vidal could go if the right offer came in. Cillessen could go, but I like him and only for the right offer.

That leaves...

ter Stegen
Cillessen

Nelsinho
Vidal 
Pique
Umtiti
Sanchez
Mascherano
Sandro
Alba

Busquets
Samper

Fabinho
Rakitic
Iniesta
Sergi
Alena (maybe B team, but if we don't sign a CM I'd hope he gets a lot of minutes)

Messi
Rafinha
Suarez
Dybala
Dembele
Deulofeu

I don't know. I'm somewhat torn because players I'd prefer from a footballing standpoint, a guy like Thiago for instance, aren't available. Still all things considered I'd be very happy with something like that.


----------



## Evilo

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> PSG take L1 for granted and all their moves are for the CL. It actually represents a total devaluation of the league and really why would Qatari billionaires give a lick about the French domestic league?





As a Bayern fan, it's quite hypocritical from you.

L1 will love to add someone who will put a spotlight on them week after week.
Everyone will benefit because matches will be shown everywhere, and scouts better move faster than they are right now given the insane talent level among youngsters in France.
TV rights will go up (and that means more money for every team), if PSG performs in Europe, the coefficient will also go up.

Really, you couldn't be more wrong.


----------



## Scandale du Jour

Please don't sell Bale


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> As a Bayern fan, it's quite hypocritical from you.
> 
> L1 will love to add someone who will put a spotlight on them week after week.
> Everyone will benefit because matches will be shown everywhere, and scouts better move faster than they are right now given the insane talent level among youngsters in France.
> TV rights will go up (and that means more money for every team), if PSG performs in Europe, the coefficient will also go up.
> 
> Really, you couldn't be more wrong.




A Bayern fan? Him?

Others will benefit somewhat but this isn't good for parity in the league at all.


----------



## bleedblue1223

In the long-run, it's definitely good for France. It will bring more money and exposure to the league and will also force the other teams to try and keep pace.


----------



## les Habs

bleedblue1223 said:


> In the long-run, it's definitely good for France. It will bring more money and exposure to the league and will also force the other teams to try and keep pace.




How will other teams keep pace though? The gulf in money is too big.


----------



## YNWA14

de Vrij would actually be an amazing get for Barcelona and he'd fit in really, really well there.



les Habs said:


> How will other teams keep pace though? The gulf in money is too big.




Yeah I don't see how that will encourage the other teams. It hasn't since PSG became so dominant. The rest of the league is not going to be able to keep up.


----------



## Nalens Oga

I certainly am not gonna start watching Ligue 1 again just because of Neymar lol but I would be more inclined to watch a PSG CL game. 

I made multiple attempts at watching the French League back in the 2000s but the awful awful stupid finishing drove me insane compared to watching the Prem/Bundesliga/La Liga


----------



## maclean

les Habs said:


> How will other teams keep pace though? The gulf in money is too big.




I don't know about keeping pace, but it will bring more money and attention to the whole league so the other teams will definitely profit as well.


----------



## Deficient Mode

les Habs said:


> How will other teams keep pace though? The gulf in money is too big.




Only way I could see is if the money helps clubs hold onto their academy products longer. But really, if the biggest clubs (and EPL clubs) are still growing faster than the rest, their buying power will only increase relative to other French clubs. So everyone will make more money, but there won't be more parity, and smaller clubs will be richer but weaker.


----------



## bleedblue1223

les Habs said:


> How will other teams keep pace though? The gulf in money is too big.




I mean it's no different than in England, Germany, or Spain. There is a huge gulf between Real, Barca, Bayern, and their domestic competition, but it's not bad for La Liga when Real eventually backs up the money truck for Mbappe or whoever else they buy. Bayern for example for Dortmund to be better at what Dortmund is good at, finding and developing talent. That allows Dortmund to compete with them, and it's ultimately better for the league.

PSG acquiring big players will force a team like Monaco to continue to work even harder to find the next big start at a cheap price. That's just one example. Keeping pace by forcing the other teams to work harder to make their teams better. It doesn't just mean to throw money at players.


----------



## maclean

I don't think there can really be much argument about it benefitting other French teams. People will be tuning in to Ligue 1 who would never have thought to watch it before. People, both locals and tourists, will be going to games they wouldn't have otherwise. People who come to watch Neymar will be exposed to other French teams as well and interest in the league and them will unquestionably grow. I think Neymar's popularity is being severely underestimated by some here. Even now he was not as much in Messi's shadow as people make him out to be and there are places where he is much more popular than Messi.


----------



## Evilo

Deficient Mode said:


> A Bayern fan? Him?
> 
> Others will benefit somewhat but this isn't good for parity in the league at all.




Obviously. It's exactly why Bunderliga is almost 10th league in Europe 
Of course it isn't good for parity, but as I said earlier today, that's about the only drawback.
PSG was supposed to win before this move anyway. Don't see much change in that.


----------



## Evilo

So many wrongs here.

Ligue 1 has never attracted as many investors as they have the last few years.
PSG, Monaco, OM and now Lille are owned by big money investors.
Lyon is healthy and will continue to be.
Bordeaux and Nice, among others, are being targeted by some investors as well.
PSG and Monaco have already made some noise in Europe, OM should get back to being very competitive soon and Lille will in a couple of years (high quality coach, best scout in the business running a whole scouting department, a passionnate owner, a new stadium, etc...).

L1 has never been healthier and will continue to grow. Saying it's PSG and everyone else is particularly amazing considering the season Monaco has just had.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> Obviously. It's exactly why Bunderliga is almost 10th league in Europe
> Of course it isn't good for parity, but as I said earlier today, that's about the only drawback.
> PSG was supposed to win before this move anyway. Don't see much change in that.




Ok, well I don't see how it really benefits fans at all. The people who have shares in or other financial connections to the smaller clubs will benefit, but IDK if the smaller clubs will actually compete better. I've become pretty pessimistic about this in the Bundesliga as well.

Maybe we will reach a point where there are so many talented players that the big clubs can't even control it all. I doubt it though.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Rumors in italy saying Juve are enquiring about Rabiot


----------



## bleedblue1223

Deficient Mode said:


> Ok, well I don't see how it really benefits fans at all. The people who have shares in or other financial connections to the smaller clubs will benefit, but IDK if the smaller clubs will actually compete better. I've become pretty pessimistic about this in the Bundesliga as well.
> 
> Maybe we will reach a point where there are so many talented players that the big clubs can't even control it all. I doubt it though.




The fans will get to see Neymar, that's how it benefits them. 

As far as the parity, lets not acting like parity exists in any of the leagues. In each league, there are always just the same small handful of clubs that have a chance at winning the league. Parity doesn't exist in this sport.


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

Hope Barca doesn't try to raid BVB.


----------



## Deficient Mode

bleedblue1223 said:


> The fans will get to see Neymar, that's how it benefits them.
> 
> As far as the parity, lets not acting like parity exists in any of the leagues. In each league, there are always just the same small handful of clubs that have a chance at winning the league. Parity doesn't exist in this sport.




Right, no one would claim otherwise re:parity. The idea that it benefits everyone is silly though. It it getting worse. In 2010/11 Marseille had 14% more revenue than second place Lyon and 50% more than third place PSG. Fast forward five years and PSG's revenue is 3.25 times higher than second place Lyon.

I'm sure the fans of other French clubs will worship and enjoy Neymar. Especially knowing how Bayern's top stars are viewed by other German fans.


----------



## phisherman

Funny about this talk about Ligue 1 parity. It's like people here completely missed the years where Lyon dominated every year.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

MrFunnyWobbl said:


> Hope Barca doesn't try to raid BVB.




They will try hard for Demeble.

Not sure if we will get him or not though.


----------



## Evilo

Deficient Mode said:


> Ok, well I don't see how it really benefits fans at all. The people who have shares in or other financial connections to the smaller clubs will benefit, but IDK if the smaller clubs will actually compete better. I've become pretty pessimistic about this in the Bundesliga as well.
> 
> Maybe we will reach a point where there are so many talented players that the big clubs can't even control it all. I doubt it though.




Small teams will benefit a lot from TV rights. Look at the EPL.


----------



## Savi

maclean said:


> and there are places where he is much more popular than Messi.




Yes, some places in Brazil


----------



## bleedblue1223

Deficient Mode said:


> Right, no one would claim otherwise re:parity. The idea that it benefits everyone is silly though. It it getting worse. In 2010/11 Marseille had 14% more revenue than second place Lyon and 50% more than third place PSG. Fast forward five years and PSG's revenue is 3.25 times higher than second place Lyon.
> 
> I'm sure the fans of other French clubs will worship and enjoy Neymar. Especially knowing how Bayern's top stars are viewed by other German fans.




No one is saying this specific move benefits everyone, what people are saying is that overall, it will help the league. It will increase total revenue, a better tv deal, which will help all of the smaller clubs like in England.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Evilo said:


> Small teams will benefit a lot from TV rights. Look at the EPL.




I'd say it is at best a mixed bag for small EPL clubs. They don't use their money well at all and most good players still don't want to go to a low table EPL club. They sometimes are able to acquire good players from abroad but the top 6 are far more entrenched financially now than they were even ten years ago. Leicester's success wasn't predicated on more money, either.


----------



## Evilo

Obviously they haven't used their money well, except for some moves, notably by Leicester (because yes, without TV rights money, they don't buy a guy like Ngolo Kante).
For french teams, it means more money to be spent in salaries and a hope of retaining their young players a little longer.


----------



## Venkman

Leicester sign Ian Nacho. Rumoured to be Ã‚Â£25m with a buy-back clause.


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> Ok, well I don't see how it really benefits fans at all. The people who have shares in or other financial connections to the smaller clubs will benefit, but IDK if the smaller clubs will actually compete better. I've become pretty pessimistic about this in the Bundesliga as well.
> 
> Maybe we will reach a point where there are so many talented players that the big clubs can't even control it all. I doubt it though.




Depends on whether clubs continue to pour their profits into their academies & scouting networks or if the money will start to make them stupid like early 2000s BVB. If the money is reinvested well it just raises the level of play & competition, even if the title becomes less & less in doubt. But as an union fan who Favre turned into a BMG fan, and is now turning into a Nice fan, the chance of ultimate glory isn't what most appeals to me about football. It is the courage to try and play attractive, the gameday experience, and the quality of the play that draws me in as a fan. As long as a team like BMG can regularly crack the CL and play against the biggest teams in the world, I don't care who lifts the salad bowl.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Deficient Mode said:


> I'd say it is at best a mixed bag for small EPL clubs. They don't use their money well at all and most good players still don't want to go to a low table EPL club. They sometimes are able to acquire good players from abroad but the top 6 are far more entrenched financially now than they were even ten years ago. Leicester's success wasn't predicated on more money, either.




They are still better off having the money though, doesn't matter if they don't spend it wisely. Any club operating on a smaller budget compared to their competition will still have to thrive on scouting and finding diamonds in the rough.


----------



## Burner Account

Ian Nacho lol

remember when Leicester didn't sell Jamie Vardy?


----------



## bleedblue1223

Just imagine Mocaco with a tv deal like England has. They'd be able to keep that team together and have a longer run with that core.


----------



## cgf

bleedblue1223 said:


> No one is saying this specific move benefits everyone, what people are saying is that overall, it will help the league. It will increase total revenue, a better tv deal, which will help all of the smaller clubs like in England.




What helped the smaller clubs in england most was the biggest teams being mismanaged in the post SAF years...and all of that benefit has lead to 1 title won by a non-giant, so why is England being pointed to as some paragon of Parity?


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Obviously they haven't used their money well, except for some moves, notably by Leicester (because yes, without TV rights money, they don't buy a guy like Ngolo Kante).
> For french teams, *it means more money to be spent in salaries and a hope of retaining their young players a little longer.*




You hope.


----------



## Deficient Mode

cgf said:


> Depends on whether clubs continue to pour their profits into their academies & scouting networks or if the money will start to make them stupid like early 2000s BVB. If the money is reinvested well it just raises the level of play & competition, even if the title becomes less & less in doubt. But as an union fan who Favre turned into a BMG fan, and is now turning into a Nice fan, the chance of ultimate glory isn't what most appeals to me about football. It is the courage to try and play attractive, the gameday experience, and the quality of the play that draws me in as a fan. As long as a team like BMG can regularly crack the CL and play against the biggest teams in the world, I don't care who lifts the salad bowl.




Well I imagine French academies are already operating at pretty close to peak efficiency.



bleedblue1223 said:


> They are still better off having the money though, doesn't matter if they don't spend it wisely. Any club operating on a smaller budget compared to their competition will still have to thrive on scouting and finding diamonds in the rough.




And the point is that if the revenue of bigger clubs in France and of low-table clubs in England is growing far faster, will it even matter? It will just mean higher transfer fees, but they will be able to bully smaller clubs financially even more. And the money from the transfer fees won't amount to nearly the same as the revenue gap between such clubs.


----------



## Deficient Mode

bleedblue1223 said:


> Just imagine Mocaco with a tv deal like England has. They'd be able to keep that team together and have a longer run with that core.




Yeah, except by the time the French League has a deal the size of the current EPL deal, where will the EPL deal be? Â£20b per year???


----------



## bleedblue1223

cgf said:


> What helped the smaller clubs in england most was the biggest teams being mismanaged in the post SAF years...and all of that benefit has lead to 1 title won by a non-giant, so why is England being pointed to as some paragon of Parity?




I'm not saying they have parity. There is 0 parity in European football. If you want parity, it will require a completely different system, but that's not what you want. European football doesn't want parity, that much is clear.

My point is, that will greater league exposure and league-wide revenue, it will help the smaller clubs get up a little more and spend more than they ever have. In the end it still doesn't make a difference, but they are definitely better off than they were before.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Deficient Mode said:


> Yeah, except by the time the French League has a deal the size of the current EPL deal, where will the EPL deal be? Â£20b per year???




Smaller clubs in France shouldn't give a **** what the EPL is doing. Just like the smaller clubs in England don't give a **** at what PSG does.


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

If Neymar decided not to sign with PSG, could they sue him?


----------



## Deficient Mode

bleedblue1223 said:


> Smaller clubs in France shouldn't give a **** what the EPL is doing. Just like the smaller clubs in England don't give a **** at what PSG does.




uhh, yeah, considering that the EPL buys a bunch of L1 players and the stated goal is to keep their players, they should be concerned.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## bleedblue1223

Deficient Mode said:


> uhh, yeah, considering that the EPL buys a bunch of L1 players and the stated goal is to keep their players, they should be concerned.




They can't do anything about it though, what the EPL does is out of their hands. Their best chance is for the league to continue to improve and get a massive tv deal themselves. No point in freaking out on things that you have no control over.


----------



## gphr513

MrFunnyWobbl said:


> If Neymar decided not to sign with PSG, could they sue him?




I would imagine there's something in place that forces him to sign for PSG. People don't just hand out 300mil before having a pretty airtight agreement.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Curtinho said:


> That's a bold statement to make. Y*ou could make the argument he's close already and still pretty young*, and if you take international games into account well...




He's young, yeah, but doesn't have what it takes to be at their level. Not a knock on him, it's just that the other two are probably top-10 all time players.



les Habs said:


> Small-minded signing and smacks of this board and quite probably Valverde. Next thing I know Duchene will be calling for Martinez to start over Umtiti.
> 
> Definitely good enough to beat Madrid, but it could go either way. *Without Neymar BarÃƒÂ§a can beat Madrid.*
> .




You're underrating IÃƒÂ±igo Martinez. I'm not saying he should be our starting CB, but he's more than capable of being a very very good backup and would fit BarÃƒÂ§a style. I would have Laporte before of course, but it seems this board will not go for it.

We have Messi, PSG has not. Without Messi we don't beat Madrid, regardless of having Neymar or not. Well, we would beat them every once in a while, just like PSG would.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Well it's official now.

Time to spend.

There was a rumour they were going to put some money aside for the building fee. The scenes if they were to do that.


----------



## Elliman

PSG just handed the title to Real Madrid!


----------



## Nalens Oga

kyle evs48 said:


> Ian Nacho lol
> 
> remember when Leicester didn't sell Jamie Vardy?




They might've been relegated last season if they'd sold Vardy imo.

They might still get relegated but they held off on it and got another season's worth of Prem money at least.


----------



## Ceremony




----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Not once in the history of the commercialization of football has an escalation of the money involved benefited the competitiveness of smaller clubs. It's generally only benefited those people who collect income from football. So while a Norwich City player or staffer may collect a much larger relative salary (to the rest of the population) than they would have 25 or 40 years ago, the chances of them being competitive in the league have only decreased.

Now football has never been about parity and there is clearly no 'need' for 40 clubs all having roughly an equal chance at success for the league to work. But mono-dominance has never been beneficial because it defies the very ideas that make sport something people like to watch. Imagine an action thriller movie where the protagonist encounters no credible opposition, no adversity and simply wins after effortlessly and easily destroying all in his way. It simply wouldn't be made because no-one wants to see that.

It's delusional to believe that people would be more interested in watching PSG toy with Lorient or Lens because Neymar is playing. Football crowds aren't NBA crowds where they may show up just to watch Lebron. If Neymar was in France to play for a rival of PSG that would suddenly with Neymar be able to put up a credible challenge to PSG..now that would perhaps help the league. Neymar doesn't 'put the French league on the map'..because the French league has been on the map for a long time. People aren't unaware of it, they are just not watching because it's boring (a choice I made years ago).

There is no 'closing the gap' for other teams because the wealth of PSG isn't generated by PSG's success in French football but by the business dealings of a corrupt and inhumane Middle Eastern regime (which really can't be stressed enough). Being the only relevant club in France's *by far* biggest city (and one of Europe's biggest), PSG would have had an inbuilt commercial advantage over its French rivals even without Qatari capital. But with that capital it's simply a behemoth that can walk all over its opponents. The Neymar fee alone matches the combined annual budgets of 7 Ligue 1 clubs. The financial mismatch is probably beyond the imagination of anyone used to the relative parity of North American sports. This is Walmart vs your local mom and pop store. Saying that this would make other clubs 'close the gap' is like telling a regular kid to get a summer job so he could compete vs Richie Rich. 

This isn't organic commercial growth, this is a cancerous growth. French football is used a host by a parasitic entity. If the chance at forming a European super league arose..PSG's owners would discard the host body in a heartbeat. They are spending this money so their toy PSG can become a world football power; French football is of no significance to them. France just happens to be where Paris is. (I am not saying this is a unique phenomenon i.e. I don't think the Abu Dhabi clan behind City give a damn about Manchester either nor do Red Bull give a hoot about Leipzig).


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Ligue 1 will be no fun for at least ten years, if ever.


----------



## bleedblue1223

How is it any different from La Liga with Real and Barca just trading off between each other? Or Bayern controlling Germany? Or Juve dominating Italy? I don't get the hypocritical bashing of France and Ligue 1 that is going on.


----------



## phisherman

The commercialization of football attracts rich owners that can prop up traditionally non challenging teams.

Look at Chelsea and Man City. When the EPL started getting popular it attracted owners to come. 

After PSG got their rich owners, Monaco and Marseille for example also got new rich owners. And I wouldn't be surprised if more French teams get bought.

And people here are already anticipating PSG's dominance but Ligue 1 has already gone through that with Lyon. Do people here not remember when they won like 7 straight Ligue 1 titles?


----------



## Burner Account

Just as much about PSG getting its new poster boy as Qatar getting its own.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

bleedblue1223 said:


> How is it any different from La Liga with Real and Barca just trading off between each other? Or Bayern controlling Germany? Or Juve dominating Italy? I don't get the hypocritical bashing of France and Ligue 1 that is going on.




La Liga: A two horse race is infinitely more competitive than a one horse race. Atletico can sneak into the mix too. 

Serie A: I find that the parity has increased by a good amount this summer.


----------



## phisherman

TopKex said:


> La Liga: A two horse race is infinitely more competitive than a one horse race. Atletico can sneak into the mix too.
> 
> Serie A: I find that the parity has increased by a good amount this summer.




Ligue 1 hasn't suddenly become the SPL due to Neymar signing with PSG.


----------



## bleedblue1223

TopKex said:


> La Liga: A two horse race is infinitely more competitive than a one horse race. Atletico can sneak into the mix too.
> 
> Serie A: I find that the parity has increased by a good amount this summer.




Maybe everyone after Juve, but Juve has won the past 6 titles and until some of the others can prove it on the field, Juve will continue to be the heavy favorites.

This all just ties back to previous discussions. If you want parity, find ways to limit spending of the big clubs and force the smaller clubs to spend more, and create a payroll range. If you don't want that, then don't complain when a handful across Europe dominate domestically.


----------



## RoyIsALegend

I would have loved to see the expressions on the Barca brass in the top floors of Camp Nou when they looked out the window and saw this:






Neymar's lawyers arriving to pay the buyout clause. 

That would have been priceless.


----------



## Evilo

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> It's delusional to believe that people would be more interested in watching PSG toy with Lorient or Lens because Neymar is playing.



So after being debunked by your own ignorance using Caen as an example last time, you resort to using Ligue 2 teams. 
Sure. 



TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Football crowds aren't NBA crowds where they may show up just to watch Lebron.



Again, ignorance. When PSG comes to town, opponent teams beat their attendance record every year.



TheMoreYouKnow said:


> People aren't unaware of it, they are just not watching because it's boring (a choice I made years ago).



And that you've stated a hundred times. Which only stresses your ignorance towards everything L1. Yet you continue to comment on it, with absolutely zero knowledge of it.



TheMoreYouKnow said:


> There is no 'closing the gap' for other teams



Lol, you keep on talking about Bayern, yet they keep on winning their league every year, meanwhile you put that stamp on PSG the summer after they lost to another team (which also went further than Bayern in the CL mind you).


----------



## Evilo

TopKex said:


> La Liga: A two horse race is infinitely more competitive than a one horse race. Atletico can sneak into the mix too.
> 
> Serie A: I find that the parity has increased by a good amount this summer.




HELLO????? PSG aren't even champions !!!

Wake the **** up before you comment on something like this.
Lille will be more exciting than any EPL team this year. Just like Monaco was last year.

That's your "L1 won't be exciting for 10 years".


----------



## Burner Account




----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Qatar is a joke.

Zenit wants Kranevitter too, hopefully that means they couldn't close on Ascacibar but if it's on top of him all you can do is laugh and hope for the best. Might as well figure out a way to watch them.

Druissi,Mammanna,Paredes,Ascacibar,Kranevitter,Rigoni next is Thiago JR?

Apparently you can add Pezzella to the list.


----------



## maclean

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> It's delusional to believe that people would be more interested in watching PSG toy with Lorient or Lens because Neymar is playing.




If you don't think people will come see a game just because Neymar is playing then you're the one who's delusional. The rest of it isn't really worth getting into without this escalating into a political debate, but I hope your tirade made you feel better about yourself.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Evilo said:


> HELLO????? PSG aren't even champions !!!
> 
> Wake the **** up before you comment on something like this.
> Lille will be more exciting than any EPL team this year. Just like Monaco was last year.
> 
> That's your "L1 won't be exciting for 10 years".




I don't know what to say if you believe that Ligue 1 will be anything but a one horse race in the near future. Lille, Monaco, Lyon, Marseille and Nice are cool and all, but I can find just as interesting teams in a much more competitive league. Doesn't necessarily have to be the EPL.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Evilo said:


> HELLO????? PSG aren't even champions !!!
> 
> Wake the **** up before you comment on something like this.
> *Lille will be more exciting than any EPL team this year*. Just like Monaco was last year.
> 
> That's your "L1 won't be exciting for 10 years".




Let's not get ahead of ourselves here


----------



## Deficient Mode

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Qatar is a joke.
> 
> Zenit wants Kranevitter too, hopefully that means they couldn't close on Ascacibar but if it's on top of him all you can do is laugh and hope for the best. Might as well figure out a way to watch them.
> 
> Druissi,Mammanna,Paredes,Ascacibar,Kranevitter,Rigoni next is Thiago JR?
> 
> Apparently you can add Pezzella to the list.




At least if they're all in one place, you can cut down on the amount of time you spend following them.


----------



## Savant

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Qatar is a joke.
> 
> Zenit wants Kranevitter too, hopefully that means they couldn't close on Ascacibar but if it's on top of him all you can do is laugh and hope for the best. Might as well figure out a way to watch them.
> 
> Druissi,Mammanna,Paredes,Ascacibar,Kranevitter,Rigoni next is Thiago JR?
> 
> Apparently you can add Pezzella to the list.




All the good Argentina players going to Russia or MLS


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

(1) One player on one team doesn't make a league. 

(2) Bayern's dominance in German football is a problem and will continue to become a bigger problem as time passes if things stay as they are. Bayern have been the 'big dog' for over 40 years but it's gone from them dueling rivals and frequently losing in those duels to them coming out on top reliably. That's not good for the Bundesliga.

But there is a bit of a difference between that and PSG in France. Bayern's domination is the result of decades of good management and careful commercial growth - not a hyper-rich benefactor pouring unheard of sums into a market. In other words, Bayern's money is a reflection of the commercial potential in German football. It's not outside non-football money. It's thus not so far removed from the commercial potential of clubs such as Dortmund or Schalke that it's a deficit those could never make up or a gap they couldn't at least feasibly narrow significantly at least if they were similarly well managed for longer stretches of time.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

What's a reliable source for Italian and German transfer news?


----------



## ViD

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Qatar is a joke.
> 
> Zenit wants Kranevitter too, hopefully that means they couldn't close on Ascacibar but if it's on top of him all you can do is laugh and hope for the best. Might as well figure out a way to watch them.
> 
> Druissi,Mammanna,Paredes,Ascacibar,Kranevitter,Rigoni next is Thiago JR?
> 
> Apparently you can add Pezzella to the list.




I just hope they all get together well. Not sure it's a good idea buying a bunch of players from the same country as they will create their own camp in the team locker room


----------



## Evilo

TopKex said:


> I don't know what to say if you believe that Ligue 1 will be anything but a one horse race in the near future. Lille, Monaco, Lyon, Marseille and Nice are cool and all, but I can find just as interesting teams in a much more competitive league. Doesn't necessarily have to be the EPL.




Let me guess : you thought the exact same thing a year ago. 
Don't you learn from your mistakes?


----------



## Evilo

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> (1) One player on one team doesn't make a league.




So many wrongs in your posts i'll just stick to this.
La Liga would certainly not be considered what it is without Messi and Ronaldo.
Ligue 1 is only about 1 player. There are plenty of good players.
Monaco was the most exciting team last season in Europe and they had players you didn't rate (or even know about) a year ago.
Lyon sold for over 100 out of 2 players and went to EL semis. Yet they finished 4th last season.
Lille has the most exciting and spectacular coach in soccer and a rich owner, as well as a state of the art stadium. They brought in 13 players.

But there's really no point in arguing with you. You keep in commenting on L1 while admiting you don't watch it.


----------



## CycloneLaunch

RoyIsALegend said:


> I would have loved to see the expressions on the Barca brass in the top floors of Camp Nou when they looked out the window and saw this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neymar's lawyers arriving to pay the buyout clause.
> 
> That would have been priceless.




Is the money in those suitcases ??


----------



## RoyIsALegend

CycloneLaunch said:


> Is the money in those suitcases ??




No, it's their luggage. Quick stop at Camp Nou, then Banco Santander, and off to Paris.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Francesc Aguilar is reporting Juventus would let Dybala go to Barca for cash and a player. They are reportedly interested in Gomes. Probably not legit but a man can dream. 

Chelsea is going to offer 50 million for Van Dijk according to the times.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

DatsyukOwns said:


> Francesc Aguilar is reporting Juventus would let Dybala go to Barca *for cash and a player. They are reportedly interested in Gomes.* Probably not legit but a man can dream.
> 
> Chelsea is going to offer 50 million for Van Dijk according to the times.




Too good to be true


----------



## Live in the Now

The Times is reporting that Chelsea are putting together a 50m bid for van Dijk.

I have a feeling Liverpool was waiting for another team to go in there and they will offer quite a bit more. van Dijk definitely won't be at Southampton this season though.


----------



## Savant

Live in the Now said:


> The Times is reporting that Chelsea are putting together a 50m bid for van Dijk.
> 
> I have a feeling Liverpool was waiting for another team to go in there and they will offer quite a bit more. van Dijk definitely won't be at Southampton this season though.




I am looking forward to Southampton only sanctioning the Chelsea bid out of spite.


----------



## Live in the Now

Savant said:


> I am looking forward to Southampton only sanctioning the Chelsea bid out of spite.



Perhaps. But if one's offering 70 and the other 50, their manager will step in wanting the money to spend. Their squad desperately needs reinforcements.


----------



## Epictetus

Let's see Liverpool actually submit a bid first.


----------



## Jeffrey

There is so much fail regarding Liverpool handling of transfers that nothing is out of question.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## DatsyukOwns

Oier Fano said Martinez wants to go to Barca. Valverde apperantly requested his signing.


----------



## Live in the Now

DatsyukOwns said:


> Oier Fano said Martinez wants to go to Barca. Valverde apperantly requested his signing.




Which Martinez. Inigo? He's good. Not sure why they'd buy a CB though, but their transfer activity for a while has been odd.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Live in the Now said:


> Which Martinez. Inigo? He's good. Not sure why they'd buy a CB though, but their transfer activity for a while has been odd.




Yeah inigo. They would pay the buyout clause of 32 million.

My hope was that they would give Marlon time but maybe they don't feel he's ready yet.

Though there was interest from City which seems weird as he would be starting regularly there no?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Live in the Now said:


> Which Martinez. Inigo? He's good. Not sure why they'd buy a CB though, but their transfer activity for a while has been odd.




A cb is very much needed actually.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Deficient Mode said:


> At least if they're all in one place, you can cut down on the amount of time you spend following them.




That would be nice a one stop shop for albiceleste enthusiasts.



Savant said:


> All the good Argentina players going to Russia or MLS




MLS?



DatsyukOwns said:


> Francesc Aguilar is reporting Juventus would let Dybala go to Barca for cash and a player. They are reportedly interested in Gomes. Probably not legit but a man can dream.
> 
> Chelsea is going to offer 50 million for Van Dijk according to the times.




2 birds one stone. Nice.


----------



## Savant

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> MLS?.




Mostly a tongue in cheek comment but MLS has certainly targeted Argentine talent, and been able to get pretty high level talent to come over from that league.


----------



## Savant

Epictetus said:


> Let's see Liverpool actually submit a bid first.




Fair.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Savant said:


> Mostly a tongue in cheek comment but MLS has certainly targeted Argentine talent, and been able to get pretty high level talent to come over from that league.




All Argentine players are high level talent... in relation to other inferior nations.


----------



## Luigi Habs

spintheblackcircle said:


>





Odd because Pocchetino kept mentioning Onomah's name regarding the young players he was looking forward to give a chance next season. Maybe the Meyer signing is happening?


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> So many wrongs in your posts i'll just stick to this.
> La Liga would certainly not be considered what it is without Messi and Ronaldo.
> Ligue 1 is only about 1 player. There are plenty of good players.
> Monaco was the most exciting team last season in Europe and they had players you didn't rate (or even know about) a year ago.
> Lyon sold for over 100 out of 2 players and went to EL semis. Yet they finished 4th last season.
> Lille has the most exciting and spectacular coach in soccer and a rich owner, as well as a state of the art stadium. They brought in 13 players.
> 
> But there's really no point in arguing with you. You keep in commenting on L1 while admiting you don't watch it.




Let's not kid ourselves. The stars had to be aligned to see any other team other than PSG win the league, and the stars did indeed align last season. It took an awfully badly coached PSG team + a young team that exploded at the right time. Monaco already lost a lot of important pieces and if they lose Mbappe, Lemar and Fabinho or any combination of those 3 players they'd be lucky if they get a CL spot.


----------



## Chimaera

Jeffrey said:


> There is so much fail regarding Liverpool handling of transfers that nothing is out of question.




They got three solid deals done. They didn't need squad players. Still time to go.


----------



## Savant

Chimaera said:


> They got three solid deals done. They didn't need squad players. Still time to go.




Would it be the worst thing to go back in for Draxler, with Neymar now in Paris?


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> So many wrongs here.
> 
> Ligue 1 has never attracted as many investors as they have the last few years.
> PSG, Monaco, OM and now Lille are owned by big money investors.
> Lyon is healthy and will continue to be.
> Bordeaux and Nice, among others, are being targeted by some investors as well.
> PSG and Monaco have already made some noise in Europe, OM should get back to being very competitive soon and Lille will in a couple of years (high quality coach, best scout in the business running a whole scouting department, a passionnate owner, a new stadium, etc...).
> 
> L1 has never been healthier and will continue to grow. Saying it's PSG and everyone else is particularly amazing considering the season Monaco has just had.




I'll assume you were referencing me in here as well. 

I'm aware that a club like Monaco has a wealthy owner. However they're not big spenders and nowhere near the sort PSG are. Sure they won the league last season, but I think that will be a one-off. PSG won the previous four years. On top of that Monaco have partially broken up last year's side and the Summer isn't over yet. Sure they have some replacements already (Jorge and Boschilia) and they bought some (Tielemans), but the clear favorites are PSG. If you want to make a friendly wager that PSG won't win the title I'll take you up on that. Things could change, but in general it looks like PSG should be a lock for while now.



Vasilevskiy said:


> You're underrating IÃƒÂ±igo Martinez. I'm not saying he should be our starting CB, but he's more than capable of being a very very good backup and would fit BarÃƒÂ§a style. I would have Laporte before of course, but it seems this board will not go for it.
> 
> We have Messi, PSG has not. Without Messi we don't beat Madrid, regardless of having Neymar or not. Well, we would beat them every once in a while, just like PSG would.




No, I'm not underrating. I'm not even commenting on his ability really. However what I am doing is stating the obvious that we could do better and should do better. I thought he was 28 and he's only 26, but he still lacks experience and he's only so good. We can and should do better.

PSG could beat Madrid with that lineup. I'm not saying it's 9 out of 10 times, but they could definitely do it. 



RoyIsALegend said:


> I would have loved to see the expressions on the Barca brass in the top floors of Camp Nou when they looked out the window and saw this:
> 
> Neymar's lawyers arriving to pay the buyout clause.
> 
> That would have been priceless.








DatsyukOwns said:


> Francesc Aguilar is reporting Juventus would let Dybala go to Barca for cash and a player. They are reportedly interested in Gomes. Probably not legit but a man can dream.




Would love it if that happened. Sadly I doubt it does.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

spintheblackcircle said:


>





Weird. Poch doesn't really loan out players unless he is unsure if they have a future within the club. I'd be pissed if we sold Onomah when Poch only plays him out of position.


----------



## Evilo

Luiginho said:


> Let's not kid ourselves. The stars had to be aligned to see any other team other than PSG win the league, and the stars did indeed align last season. It took an awfully badly coached PSG team + a young team that exploded at the right time. Monaco already lost a lot of important pieces and if they lose Mbappe, Lemar and Fabinho or any combination of those 3 players they'd be lucky if they get a CL spot.




And yet that proves that statements like these are crap. You never know in sports.


----------



## Evilo

les Habs said:


> I'll assume you were referencing me in here as well.
> 
> I'm aware that a club like Monaco has a wealthy owner. However they're not big spenders and nowhere near the sort PSG are. Sure they won the league last season, but I think that will be a one-off. PSG won the previous four years. On top of that Monaco have partially broken up last year's side and the Summer isn't over yet. Sure they have some replacements already (Jorge and Boschilia) and they bought some (Tielemans), but the clear favorites are PSG. If you want to make a friendly wager that PSG won't win the title I'll take you up on that. Things could change, but in general it looks like PSG should be a lock for while now.




Hey, as much as I liked Monaco's team last summer, I still picked PSG. But as I said, statements like "PSG will win 10 straight" are so wrong.
We have absolutely no idea of how other teams will evolve.


----------



## Evilo

Ghezzal to Monaco on a free.


----------



## Havre

TopKex said:


> Weird. Poch doesn't really loan out players unless he is unsure if they have a future within the club. I'd be pissed if we sold Onomah when Poch only plays him out of position.




That someone with "mirror" in their twitter-alias "hears" that Onomah is going somewhere doesn't necessarily mean a lot.

Personally I don't agree with Pochettino when it comes to the reluctance to loan players out. Would make a lot of sense for Onomah to get a full season as a CM somewhere. However, I do agree that if he is sent out he most likely isn't coming back.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Sport.es is saying Martinez is one step away from becoming a Barca player. We will pay his release clause and sign him for 5 years.

Albert Roge said Marlon will be the sarcificed player.


----------



## Savant

Havre said:


> That someone with "mirror" in their twitter-alias "hears" that Onomah is going somewhere doesn't necessarily mean a lot.
> 
> Personally I don't agree with Pochettino when it comes to the reluctance to loan players out. Would make a lot of sense for Onomah to get a full season as a CM somewhere. However, I do agree that if he is sent out he most likely isn't coming back.




https://mobile.twitter.com/SpursOfficial/status/893426342099857408?s=09

Looks official to me.


----------



## Ceremony

What would you say to people who think you only came to PSG for the money?

Neymar: "What I say to these people is they don't know anything about my personal life, I was never motivated by money.

"What I think about is my happiness and together with my family, I want them to be happy.

"If I was following the money, I would be somewhere else, with other clubs in other countries.

"I'm really sad that people still think that way and I'm glad that PSG believe in me."


----------



## gphr513

TopKex said:


> Weird. Poch doesn't really loan out players unless he is unsure if they have a future within the club. I'd be pissed if we sold Onomah when Poch only plays him out of position.




The fact that he was given a new contract makes me think that they still do have faith in him, but would like to see him get full starter's minutes at Villa to prove himself. But yeah, it is against Poch's usual MO. 

This almost assuredly means we're bringing someone in, right? It has to.


----------



## Power Man

DatsyukOwns said:


> Sport.es is saying Martinez is one step away from becoming a Barca player. We will pay his release clause and sign him for 5 years.
> 
> Albert Roge said Marlon will be the sarcificed player.




Lol as much as I want to see Mahrez with a top team it's not happening

Sport is not really legit, and Messi plays on the RW (although he can play multiple positions so he could make room for him).

Edit : I need another coffee Ã°Å¸ÂÂµ


----------



## Power Man

Evilo said:


> Ghezzal to Monaco on a free.




Done?

Lol Ghezzal family, what a **** mentality


----------



## Evilo

Power Man said:


> Done?
> 
> Lol Ghezzal family, what a **** mentality



Yep, done.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Barcelona confirmed they won't pay Neymar the 26M bonus

Let's see what Neymar's father does


----------



## Burner Account

I mean, what would _you_ do for 26M?


----------



## Chimaera

Savant said:


> Would it be the worst thing to go back in for Draxler, with Neymar now in Paris?




I don't think they're going to sell him.

He would be coming to a crowded forward/wing group here. He's better than some of what they have, but he isn't a need spot.


----------



## YNWA14

Draxler isn't going to join us. He's not going to go from being a bench player at PSG to a bench player at Liverpool. If he moves it'll be to somewhere he's going to be a starter, IMO. Otherwise why give up being at PSG? He had his chance to join us already.


----------



## Savant

Curtinho said:


> Draxler isn't going to join us. He's not going to go from being a bench player at PSG to a bench player at Liverpool. If he moves it'll be to somewhere he's going to be a starter, IMO. Otherwise why give up being at PSG? He had his chance to join us already.




He is stuck behind Neymar. Liverpool have no wingers other than Salah and Mane, and Draxler represents an option more creative (less direct) that either of them. Competition is good and there are a lot of games. We know Klopp likes him and PSG needs to make a sale....right?? FFP? Either way he has an easier path to the Starting XI at LFC for sure and it's a World Cup year. 

Liverpool are still short at CB and CM, (getting very worried about CM if no Keita, one injury and they are in big trouble there), but they really need another wing as well. The squad is still too small.


----------



## YNWA14

Klopp believes in youth. As of right now our CM depth looks like this:

Henderson
Coutinho
Wijnaldum
Can
Lallana
Milner
Woodburn
Grujic
Ejaria

If we sign Keita he'd be replacing Wijnaldum most likely which given the comments about Wijnaldum from the coaching staff I don't think is really necessary. The depth could be an issue but there's a lot of players for those positions right now that can provide depth with Coutinho moving back there. I'm definitely more worried about the defence...Gomez looks a solid back-up, Moreno, Robertson, Clyne, Milner, Flanagan and TAA provide enough at fullback I think, but I'd only really want to rely on Matip/Lovren for the first team against game opponents so getting van Dijk should be a priority as either (or both) could easily get injured and Klavan to me is not up to snuff.

As for forwards...well...

Firmino
Mane
Salah
Sturridge
Origi
Solanke
Kent

That's pretty good depth IMO...Draxler is not a necessity and I'm not sure I'd even rather have him over someone like Origi, Solanke or Kent. While he's probably a better player right now I think any of those could end up better if they take the next step under Klopp. Kent has flown a bit under the radar but he's certainly done himself a service in pre-season and has looked every bit as ready to be a Liverpool player this season in a back-up role.


----------



## hatterson

Luiginho said:


> Barcelona confirmed they won't pay Neymar the 26M bonus
> 
> Let's see what Neymar's father does




Do they have a legal basis for not paying it?


----------



## Luigi Habs

I don't see Draxler being successful in the no.10 role. He doesn't have the creativity to play there IMO. 

Actually I could see Neymar play centrally and Draxler out wide. If Neymar wants to play wide however, then Pastore is a better option than Draxler centrally.


----------



## YNWA14

Although I'm hearing that Lallana tore his quad in training today and could be out for 4 months. Not confirmed yet but if so I think getting a depth midfielder should be a priority again.


----------



## Savant

Curtinho said:


> Klopp believes in youth. As of right now our CM depth looks like this:
> 
> Henderson
> Coutinho
> Wijnaldum
> Can
> Lallana
> Milner
> Woodburn
> Grujic
> Ejaria
> 
> If we sign Keita he'd be replacing Wijnaldum most likely which given the comments about Wijnaldum from the coaching staff I don't think is really necessary. The depth could be an issue but there's a lot of players for those positions right now that can provide depth with Coutinho moving back there. I'm definitely more worried about the defence...Gomez looks a solid back-up, Moreno, Robertson, Clyne, Milner, Flanagan and TAA provide enough at fullback I think, but I'd only really want to rely on Matip/Lovren for the first team against game opponents so getting van Dijk should be a priority as either (or both) could easily get injured and Klavan to me is not up to snuff.
> 
> As for forwards...well...
> 
> Firmino
> Mane
> Salah
> Sturridge
> Origi
> Solanke
> Kent
> 
> That's pretty good depth IMO...Draxler is not a necessity and I'm not sure I'd even rather have him over someone like Origi, Solanke or Kent. While he's probably a better player right now I think any of those could end up better if they take the next step under Klopp. Kent has flown a bit under the radar but he's certainly done himself a service in pre-season and has looked every bit as ready to be a Liverpool player this season in a back-up role.




The expectations have changed. Liverpool is in trouble if they have to rely on big minutes from Kent or Woodburn. The have the same size squad as they had last year essentially when they ran out of gas for January and most of February and there are more games last season. Klopp can say he likes youth, and I am sure that he does, but he did not prove that with the minutes he gave the kids in December and January especially. They didn't play them enough and it burned out the starters. It's a problem. They need more quality. There will be games but with the team aiming high it is not wise to rely on the youth being able to handle it


----------



## S E P H

- The Guardian: Real Madrid would probably have to sell Bale to get the funds for Mbappe.

- The Guardian: Costa about to sign back with Atletico.

- The Sun: Sanchez might move to Monaco for a 45 million bid.   

- Mundo Deportivo: Reporting that Arsenal bid for Ousmane Dembele and that has been rejected.

- Sky Italia: Sampdoria want Wilshere and Arsenal want 10 million for him.

Nothing really else today, quiet day.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Curtinho said:


> Klopp believes in youth. As of right now our CM depth looks like this:
> 
> Henderson
> Coutinho
> Wijnaldum
> Can
> Lallana
> Milner
> Woodburn
> Grujic
> Ejaria
> 
> If we sign Keita he'd be replacing Wijnaldum most likely which given the comments about Wijnaldum from the coaching staff I don't think is really necessary. The depth could be an issue but there's a lot of players for those positions right now that can provide depth with Coutinho moving back there. I'm definitely more worried about the defence...Gomez looks a solid back-up, Moreno, Robertson, Clyne, Milner, Flanagan and TAA provide enough at fullback I think, but I'd only really want to rely on Matip/Lovren for the first team against game opponents so getting van Dijk should be a priority as either (or both) could easily get injured and Klavan to me is not up to snuff.
> 
> As for forwards...well...
> 
> Firmino
> Mane
> Salah
> Sturridge
> Origi
> Solanke
> Kent
> 
> That's pretty good depth IMO...Draxler is not a necessity and I'm not sure I'd even rather have him over someone like Origi, Solanke or Kent. While he's probably a better player right now I think any of those could end up better if they take the next step under Klopp. Kent has flown a bit under the radar but he's certainly done himself a service in pre-season and has looked every bit as ready to be a Liverpool player this season in a back-up role.




Is Ings still alive?


----------



## Prntscrn

Lallana out for a few months. Coutinho just got even more expensive


----------



## Ceremony

Curtinho said:


> *Klopp believes in youth.* As of right now our CM depth looks like this:
> 
> Henderson
> Coutinho
> Wijnaldum
> Can
> Lallana
> Milner
> Woodburn
> Grujic
> Ejaria
> 
> If we sign Keita he'd be replacing Wijnaldum most likely which given the comments about Wijnaldum from the coaching staff I don't think is really necessary. The depth could be an issue but there's a lot of players for those positions right now that can provide depth with Coutinho moving back there. I'm definitely more worried about the defence...Gomez looks a solid back-up, Moreno, Robertson, Clyne, Milner, Flanagan and TAA provide enough at fullback I think, but I'd only really want to rely on Matip/Lovren for the first team against game opponents so getting van Dijk should be a priority as either (or both) could easily get injured and Klavan to me is not up to snuff.
> 
> As for forwards...well...
> 
> Firmino
> Mane
> Salah
> Sturridge
> Origi
> Solanke
> Kent
> 
> That's pretty good depth IMO...Draxler is not a necessity and I'm not sure I'd even rather have him over someone like Origi, Solanke or Kent. While he's probably a better player right now I think any of those could end up better if they take the next step under Klopp. Kent has flown a bit under the radar but he's certainly done himself a service in pre-season and has looked every bit as ready to be a Liverpool player this season in a back-up role.






Curtinho said:


> Although I'm hearing that Lallana tore his quad in training today and could be out for 4 months.* Not confirmed yet but if so I think getting a depth midfielder should be a priority again*.


----------



## Savant

And now Adam Lallana is out until October.


----------



## Savant

Glory said:


> Lallana out for a few months. Coutinho just got even more expensive




So did Keita and any other alternatives. Liverpool's midfield is in trouble right now. They need more.


----------



## Live in the Now

They weren't going to sell Coutinho anyway, but now it's actually impossible.

They needed a midfielder before the injury and still do, so nothing changes. Can't go into the season with Coutinho, an often injured Henderson, Can, Grujic, and Wijnaldum as our midfielders for three positions. That would be dumb.


----------



## Halladay

I love Lallana but playing Coutinho further back will be fine. Still need another cm regardless.


----------



## Savant

BlameUtley said:


> I love Lallana but playing Coutinho further back will be fine. Still need another cm regardless.




Right. They lost Lucas, "replaced" Lucas in the midfield with Coutinho and "replaced" Coutinho at forward with Salah. They are the same as last year. If they don't get at least one CM it's a failure.


----------



## les Habs

Some interesting news:

-Kranevitter to Zenit now? 

-Neymar claims he only made the decision to leave two days ago. Very clear what the timing of this deal was all about.

-Read the other day that when Neymar came back to get his things and say goodbye that his interactions with Messi and Suarez were relatively brief but longer with Pique. Doesn't surprise me.

-Save the best for last. Juan Mata is proposing an initiative where players would donate 1% of their salary to charity annually. They'd have to pick a cause, but this would be huge and they would likely be able to go after multiple causes. I think it's a great idea hopefully a lot of big name players come out for this right away. Have to say I've always been impressed with Mata as an intelligent and professional guy and this really puts him over for me.



Evilo said:


> Hey, as much as I liked Monaco's team last summer, I still picked PSG. But as I said, statements like "PSG will win 10 straight" are so wrong.
> We have absolutely no idea of how other teams will evolve.




No, we don't, however we can make some educated guesses and there is little at the moment that would suggest that PSG aren't dominant for at least a few seasons. Like I said, of course that could change or there could be one-offs, but as of right now no one in L1 is spending at their level and even while other teams produce and/or buy young talent, PSG does that as well.

Something else related to this I was going to put in my previous post is that a first team squad can only have 25 players. So you might be able to put together a side with Neymar, Cavani, Verratti, Marquinhos, Silva, etc, but there is a lot of talent left over. I've seen some fellow BarÃ§a supporters make a big deal of the work Madrid have done in the transfer market, but I'm always calm because at the end of the day they're only going to have 25 players in their squad which leaves a lot of other great talent out there. 



DatsyukOwns said:


> Sport.es is saying Martinez is one step away from becoming a Barca player. We will pay his release clause and sign him for 5 years.
> 
> Albert Roge said Marlon will be the sarcificed player.




Seeing that in MD as well. I'm not upset about it, but the club should be thinking bigger than Inigo Martinez.

Thing about Marlon being out would be that we're still left with Pique, Umtiti, Mascherano and Vermaelen. Vermaelen linked with staying but also recently Anderlecht, but who knows? If Vermaelen stays this better not mean Samper goes.


----------



## bleedblue1223

les Habs said:


> -Save the best for last. Juan Mata is proposing an initiative where players would donate 1% of their salary to charity annually. They'd have to pick a cause, but this would be huge and they would likely be able to go after multiple causes. I think it's a great idea hopefully a lot of big name players come out for this right away. Have to say I've always been impressed with Mata as an intelligent and professional guy and this really puts him over for me.




Yeah, I always really like Mata, and was annoyed when we sold him. It's great to see stuff like this, especially when you constantly see stories of greed in the game.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Stoke are after Mario Lemina. Fees being discussed around Â£15M.


----------



## Luigi Habs

Double post


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Read that Neymar told Marcelo and Ramos of his intent to play for PSG before telling his own teammates. 

Don't mind Inigo, like him as a possibility of playing a back 3 with Umtiti and Pique in some games


----------



## Power Man

Evilo said:


> Yep, done.




Thanks


----------



## Savant

In addition to Lallana being out, Coutinho's back is acting up (or worse) suddenly Liverpool is back to Wijnaldum-Henderson-Can midfield, which was by far their worst combination last season. No creativity at all. 

Do something.


----------



## Burner Account

Having Robertson probably means games for Milner at CM

Still need help


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

That's brilliant from Mata.


----------



## Savant

kyle evs48 said:


> Having Robertson probably means games for Milner at CM
> 
> Still need help




I don't know if I believe that. Klopp had plenty of opportunities to put Milner at CM last year and did not. 

Doesn't help with the creativity either.


----------



## Burner Account

Savant said:


> I don't know if I believe that. Klopp had plenty of opportunities to put Milner at CM last year and did not.
> 
> Doesn't help with the creativity either.




If Moreno is still here when the window closes (I read Watford have inquired) I think Klopp will have Robertson play the big games and Moreno play whatever else.

I agree, Milner is not creative but at least can play the position. But it also could be that he doesn't have the legs to play CM on this team.


----------



## les Habs

So apparently the same guy that broke the Neymar to PSG story is now saying Coutinho to Liverpool. Not saying I buy it, but read he's saying that now. I pray that is wrong.



TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> Don't mind Inigo, like him as a possibility of playing a back 3 with Umtiti and Pique in some games




You don't need Martinez to do that when you have Umtiti. The more I think about the Martinez the more upset I get.


----------



## Savant

les Habs said:


> So apparently the same guy that broke the Neymar to PSG story is now saying Coutinho to Liverpool.




Glad to have him staying.


----------



## hatterson

Unless Barca decided to be stupid with money, I still don't see Coutinho moving.


----------



## Burner Account

Liverpool couldn't sell Coutinho before Lallana's injury. Now they really can't.


----------



## les Habs

Hey, I'm just posting what I read. I don't want him whatsoever. All I'll say is they apparently made a bid of 120 million a couple of days ago. So if that wasn't accepted one can only imagine what it would take if this is true.


----------



## Savant

les Habs said:


> Hey, I'm just posting what I read. I don't want him whatsoever. All I'll say is they apparently made a bid of 120 million a couple of days ago. So if that wasn't accepted one can only imagine what it would take if this is true.




That's why I am worried about this "back injury"

So who are the creative CM's that are available this late in the window anyway?


----------



## Evilo

les Habs said:


> No, we don't, however we can make some educated guesses and there is little at the moment that would suggest that PSG aren't dominant for at least a few seasons. Like I said, of course that could change or there could be one-offs, but as of right now no one in L1 is spending at their level and even while other teams produce and/or buy young talent, PSG does that as well.




But again, everyone made the same educated guess 5 years ago. Look at how they were wrong this year.


----------



## Ceremony

les Habs said:


> So apparently the same guy that broke the Neymar to PSG story is now saying Coutinho to Liverpool.




Huge if true.


----------



## les Habs

Savant said:


> That's why I am worried about this "back injury"
> 
> So who are the creative CM's that are available this late in the window anyway?




That would make sense.

I don't know all of them, but I also don't know that we need one. We need a good CM who can pass the ball. They need to be somewhat creative, but if we sign the right Neymar replacement we'll get creativity there as well. And it's not like we don't have creative CMs already. Coutinho as another CM is fine in general, but the problem is the price. No way I'd pay that for him. 

Situations are different because Neymar had a buyout clause, but imagine Neymar goes for 222 million and then Coutinho follows for 150 million. 



Evilo said:


> But again, everyone made the same educated guess 5 years ago. Look at how they were wrong this year.




Still they were right 80% of the time. Like I said, there will be exceptions and situations, like Monaco's did, could change.


----------



## Savant

les Habs said:


> That would make sense.
> 
> I don't know all of them, but I also don't know that we need one. We need a good CM who can pass the ball. They need to be somewhat creative, but if we sign the right Neymar replacement we'll get creativity there as well. And it's not like we don't have creative CMs already. Coutinho as another CM is fine in general, but the problem is the price. No way I'd pay that for him.
> 
> Situations are different because Neymar had a buyout clause, but imagine Neymar goes for 222 million and then Coutinho follows for 150 million.
> 
> 
> 
> Still they were right 80% of the time. Like I said, there will be exceptions and situations, like Monaco's did, could change.




Selfishly I was taking about the creative CM for Liverpool. 

I think you were right on with Barca though. They will get a good CM either was but they will get a star forward who can do everything.


----------



## Burner Account

Savant said:


> That's why I am worried about this "back injury"
> 
> So who are the creative CM's that are available this late in the window anyway?




Where have you read about this back injury? Haven't seen that yet.


----------



## Evilo

And plenty more investors target french teams (or have recently bought a team).

Anyway, who should Barca target according to you?


----------



## les Habs

kyle evs48 said:


> Where have you read about this back injury?




He's out of the squad to face Atleti.


----------



## Burner Account

Now I see it


----------



## Evilo

BeInSport reports two rumors 
1/ Liverpool after Benjamin AndrÃ©... (17M€) 
2/ Barca are closing in on Dembele.


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> And plenty more investors target french teams (or have recently bought a team).
> 
> Anyway, who should Barca target according to you?




Sure, which would be the sort of "change" I as mentioning. 

What? You didn't like my last reply to that same question? 

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=135032801&postcount=472

I'm honestly drawing somewhat of a blank which is odd coming out of draft mode. Dembele AND Dybala or Mbappe' though. We need top drawer signings with that money and we should be targeting two of them. Even if that takes care of the Neymar money, we can still fund more transfers with sales. The squad has too many players and we need to sell more than buy in terms of quantity, but we need to buy better quality.


----------



## Epictetus

Think the Keita pursuit is done for now. They'll just activate his release clause next year and compete with other teams also interested.


----------



## Evilo

les Habs said:


> What? You didn't like my last reply to that same question?
> 
> http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=135032801&postcount=472




Wow, completely missed it, thanks.


----------



## YNWA14

Well, it would take a truly massive offer to move him at this point.

That said, moving Coutinho gives us the opportunity to strengthen the team and get someone more reliable in midfield in that spot as long as they make the right buys. Would not mind at all if they took that money and turned around and bought Bale and Kovacic.

But more realistically Kovacic + Zielinski + Felipe Anderson for the Coutinho + Keita money and then still use the rest to buy van Dijk/de Vrij...the squad would be soooo sick. Or Anderson + Zielinski + someone else. Whatever...anyway, don't mind either way if Coutinho stays or goes as long as they use the money wisely replacing him.


----------



## Savant

Kovacic, Zielinski and Lemar is the only way to could replace Coutinho, not getting Keita and a crocked Lallana.

And they still need a CB


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> Wow, completely missed it, thanks.




I wondered why you never told me what was wrong with my post.


----------



## Epictetus

Badstuber off to Stuttgart. Quite a shame about his injuries.


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Kovacic, Zielinski and Lemar is the only way to could replace Coutinho, not getting Keita and a crocked Lallana.
> 
> And they still need a CB




Would take Felipe Anderson over Lemar tbh, though I'd take both. Problem is that I think all of those three would expect to start (including either of Lemar/Anderson). With Coutinho out we have 1, maybe 2 starting spots with Lallana down depending on Wijnaldum's inclusion.

Mane - Firmino - Salah
Kovacic - Anderson*
Henderson
Robertson - van Dijk - Matip* - Clyne
Mignolet*​
This would be capable of challenging for any trophy (league or Europe) IMO. Anderson could be replaced with Zielinski, Lemar or Wijnaldum, or same for Kovacic. Matip and Lovren are fairly equal and Mignolet will be pushed by Karius.


----------



## Burner Account

The only thing I disagree with is Matip and Lovren being equal. Matip every time IMO.


----------



## Jeffrey

Lovren is a disaster waiting to happen.

Too many changes in your team and it's not an improvement to our current team (*with the exception of Van Dijk)


----------



## YNWA14

Anderson and Kovacic are, IMO, both better and more reliable than Coutinho. But alright.

Either way we'll see what happens. I feel like Barcelona might even be going hard after Coutinho at all costs to spite Neymar (a stretch I realize, but wouldn't surprise me either).


----------



## Savant

Lovren would be one of the best 3rd choice LBs in the league. He should not be a starter. 

Both Lovren and Matip are injury prone and can't put a string of games together.


----------



## Savant

Curtinho said:


> Anderson and Kovacic are, IMO, both better and more reliable than Coutinho. But alright.
> 
> Either way we'll see what happens. I feel like Barcelona might even be going hard after Coutinho at all costs to spite Neymar (a stretch I realize, but wouldn't surprise me either).




Draxler and Zielinski have been linked to LFC. Those two are my baseline. 

I truly believe that this would have been Coutinho's best, breakout season where he put it together and he would have gone summer 2018. That being said if Arsenal can keep Alexis and Liverpool can't keep Coutinho OR get any of their primary targets AGAIN, I need to, and will, give props to Wenger and co.


----------



## Jeffrey

Although I find the rumored price for Coutinho quite astonishing... I fail to find a proper replacement that would be available.

I could see Klopp being interested in Meyer and Goretzka but they are far from the level of a Coutinho.


----------



## Live in the Now

Most of the reports about Coutinho include a bit about him missing training yesterday.

The whole squad missed training because there was no training. He did miss training today, but he was there getting treatment on his back. Salah posted a picture of them there.

Some of the other ones say that he didn't fly to Dublin with the squad. The squad hasn't flown to Dublin yet. 

Some great sources out there clearly.

These reports also don't acknowledge potential fan revolt if he was to be sold the way this summer has gone. For obvious reasons it won't happen.


----------



## YNWA14

Savant said:


> Draxler and Zielinski have been linked to LFC. Those two are my baseline.
> 
> I truly believe that this would have been Coutinho's best, breakout season where he put it together and he would have gone summer 2018. That being said if Arsenal can keep Alexis and Liverpool can't keep Coutinho OR get any of their primary targets AGAIN, I need to, and will, give props to Wenger and co.




Well the thing about Sanchez is he is pricing himself out of moves. Nobody will meet his wage demands so he's more or less just stuck at Arsenal. Different from the rumoured interest in other guys like Coutinho and co.

I also think this would be Coutinho's best season. He's coming into his prime and hopefully he can stay healthy for a full season for once. Playing behind a trio of Mane/Firmino/Salah would do wonders for any creative player I think; especially one of Coutinho's talents.


----------



## Live in the Now

Liverpool would be nowhere near top four if Coutinho left, so kind of pointless to talk about replacements really. They wouldn't have any preseason time to integrate new players and the squad would be rendered toothless.


----------



## Savant

Jeffrey said:


> Although I find the rumored price for Coutinho quite astonishing... I fail to find a proper replacement that would be available.
> 
> I could see Klopp being interested in Meyer and Goretzka but they are far from the level of a Coutinho.




Meyer is not good. Goretzka might be good but he is injury prone. I would just go back to guys that we know he likes. No time to scout anyone new


----------



## Cassano

Easily would pay that price if true. Arsenal would then have 2 talents that could be part of a legitimate WC contender next season.


----------



## maclean

DrRecchi said:


> Easily would pay that price if true. Arsenal would then have 2 talents that could be part of a legitimate WC contender next season.





For sure. In this market that's a dream. Don't look back.


----------



## cgf

Evilo said:


> Lille has the most exciting and spectacular coach in soccer.




...exqueeze me? Bielsa preaches a fun brand of football but this comment is pure hyperbole


----------



## Luigi Habs

Fernando signs with Galatasaray


----------



## Evilo

cgf said:


> ...exqueeze me? Bielsa preaches a fun brand of football but this comment is pure hyperbole




That's hyperbole to you, but recognized by pretty much every pundit and high profile coaches like Guardiola.

So yeah, that's not me.


----------



## Evilo

10000 Neymar PSG jerseys already sold today.


----------



## cgf

Luiginho said:


> I don't see Draxler being successful in the no.10 role. He doesn't have the creativity to play there IMO.
> 
> Actually I could see Neymar play centrally and Draxler out wide. If Neymar wants to play wide however, then Pastore is a better option than Draxler centrally.




Draxler should play as a forward if he's not out wide, not as a 10. That was the mistake Schalke made when he flourished playing off of Huntelaar.


----------



## Spoiled Bratt

DrRecchi said:


> Easily would pay that price if true. Arsenal would then have 2 talents that could be part of a legitimate WC contender next season.





Apparently, Monaco doesn't want to sell...


----------



## Vamos Rafa

FlashbackFriday


----------



## Live in the Now

Mundo Deportivo talking about Barcelona and Seri, and L'Equipe now bringing Lemar up, saying they want Lemar and Dembele. 

Would seem to indicate they know they won't sign Coutinho as if Liverpool had given any indication of selling there would be no need to look at Lemar. But who knows really.


----------



## cgf

S E P H said:


> - Mundo Deportivo: Reporting that Arsenal bid for Ousmane Dembele and that has been rejected.




Over/under 25M euro opening bid?



Live in the Now said:


> They weren't going to sell Coutinho anyway, but now it's actually impossible.
> 
> They needed a midfielder before the injury and still do, so nothing changes. Can't go into the season with Coutinho, an often injured Henderson, Can, Grujic, and Wijnaldum as our midfielders for three positions. That would be dumb.




Sell Coutinho, buy Seri + Kovacec. Next summer sell Wijnaldum if you can get Keita to replace him.

Kovacec / Grujic - Seri / Wijnaldum
Can / Henderson


----------



## Live in the Now

cgf said:


> Over/under 25M euro opening bid?
> 
> 
> 
> Sell Coutinho, buy Seri + Kovacec. Next summer sell Wijnaldum if you can get Keita to replace him.
> 
> Kovacec / Grujic - Seri / Wijnaldum
> Can / Henderson



No thanks. I like both those players but no. The creativity and long shooting they'd lose would be horrendous for the club, at least at this stage of the summer. 

Considering Liverpool's budget for this summer was gigantic only for clubs to refuse their big money, let's say they really sold Coutinho for 120m. I would demand Lemar for starters regardless of his price, and if that couldn't be completed I wouldn't do the deal at all. Then I would also sign Seri. And van Dijk. Speaking of him, apparently he's going to keep his strike going and miss the league opener next weekend. 

No interest whatsoever in anyone but those players.


----------



## cgf

Live in the Now said:


> No thanks. I like both those players but no. The creativity and long shooting they'd lose would be horrendous for the club, at least at this stage of the summer.
> 
> Considering Liverpool's budget for this summer was gigantic only for clubs to refuse their big money, let's say they really sold Coutinho for 120m. I would demand Lemar for starters regardless of his price, and if that couldn't be completed I wouldn't do the deal at all. Then I would also sign Seri. And van Dijk. Speaking of him, apparently he's going to keep his strike going and miss the league opener next weekend.
> 
> No interest whatsoever in anyone but those players.




*shrug* You'd lose in long shooting, but I don't think you'd lose any creativity with Kovacec replacing Coutinho. Don't think it would happen even if you did sell Coutinho, but you'd be a stronger & deeper team with those changes.

Replacing Countinho with Lemar would be great business, but I don't think Lemar is ready to play in the midfield yet.



Luiginho said:


> Stoke are after Mario Lemina. Fees being discussed around Ã‚Â£15M.




I'm still thrilled with how BMG built up their midfield...bringing in Zakaria, Cuisance & Neuhaus...but Lemina at 15M pounds instead of Zakaria for 12M euros would've been a change I'd be on board with.


----------



## Power Man

TF1's evening news talking about Neymar for 15 minutes :facepalm


----------



## Live in the Now

cgf said:


> *shrug* You'd lose in long shooting, but I don't think you'd lose any creativity with Kovacec replacing Coutinho. Don't think it would happen even if you did sell Coutinho, but you'd be a stronger & deeper team with those changes.




Unfortunately long shooting accounts for a decent chunk of Liverpool's goals. Maybe that won't be the case this upcoming season with Salah, Sturridge, and Mane playing more games, but who knows. 

Stronger and deeper maybe, I'm not convinced. They'd be losing 13 league goals, granted many of those were with him playing further forward, but the team is aimless without him in it. For as inconsistent as he has been he's gotten so much better and so much more consistent. I would like to have him this season as I am convinced Liverpool could challenge with him.



> Replacing Countinho with Lemar would be great business, but I don't think Lemar is ready to play in the midfield yet.




Maybe not, but I'd take that chance. That's the only chance I'd take though. I still feel the way I felt when this came up last weekend. If Liverpool were really going to sell Coutinho, they would have signed someone this week before getting a huge check from selling. They didn't. So they're not going to. The Spanish papers are trying their best to work the tapping up game though. It's amusing, especially all the blatantly false information. Even if the sale did happen, they posted lies the whole time and people should take that into account when reading articles.

Also absent from this transfer "saga" is the usual **** stirring agent demanding Coutinho be allowed to leave.


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

Man how good would Neymar look with Messi and Suarez


----------



## cgf

Maybe I over-rate Kovacic because his ability to weave through the midfield and his passing touch is so world class, but I honestly think he's a better conductor than Coutinho, and getting Seri in next to him, with Wijnaldum rotating in to keep everyone fresh; that midfield would be excellent in front of Can / Hendo.

If you also brought in Lemar, I'd have him playing as a 10 between the midfield trio and 2 of Mane / Salah / Firmino / Sturridge / Origi; as well as on the wing of a front three. Basically rotating Lemar / Mane / Salah / Firmino through 3 attacking spots the way you'd rotate Kovacic / Seri / Wijnaldum through the two more advanced midfield spots.

To me that team is clearly deeper and also stronger...especially with Kloppo's struggles against lesser sides.


----------



## Chimaera

There's a lot of players better than Coutinho, but Liverpool have him and he's integrated. It's hard to put a price on that


----------



## Power Man

Boudebouz had a medical in Barcelona today .. 





.... And will sign with Real..... 







.... Betis


----------



## Milos Krasic

Robbie Keane is going to India to play for Atletico de Kolkata.


----------



## phisherman

Lemar is going to Arsenal and Seri is being courted by Barcelona, Arsenal and PSG. 

Liverpool wouldn't be able to find a quality replacement for Coutinho.


----------



## YNWA14

Fans overrate Coutinho because of his flash and because he's a very endearing player. He's inconsistent and he's very replaceable on this team. Maybe not right now at this stage because of Klopp's belief in team unity and the way he constructs his teams, but even still I don't think it would take that long to replace what he brings to the team and with better consistency/less injury.

Again, I love Coutinho he's a very easy player to like. He's very talented, hardworking and loves football. He's just coming into his prime as well. I would prefer we didn't sell him at this time, but if we did it's not going to cripple the team. He's not the most important or best player on the team, and there are players out there that can be more effective from midfield.

Though again this is putting faith in our team to buy the right players after he's sold which is not something I'm overly convinced of. We've been better of late. Kovacic, Anderson, Zielinski, Demirbay, Joao Mario and Keita are some of the players I'd really look at to replace him. Maybe get Sneijder on a free? lol

Also there's no need to move Wijnaldum. What an underrated player. He's only going to improve this season also.


----------



## Live in the Now

Can't believe you of all people would talk about overrating him when you were saying how good he was before he was actually very good. Now he is a great player and you've completely changed your mind. 

You should really be unconvinced that Liverpool will buy anyone good. At this stage anyway.

The only players they've bought are...

A kid who was out of contract at Chelsea.
A great player on a team that had to bend over for FFP.
A relegated left back.

Anyone who thinks Coutinho being sold is even remotely a positive or will become a positive must be lying to themselves. This manager is at the club to win trophies, not constantly rebuild and replace players after they're sold. Maybe Klopp won't win any trophies but that's what he's there for and I'm glad he seems to see the reality of the situation, that the player cannot be for sale.


----------



## Savant

phisherman said:


> Lemar is going to Arsenal and Seri is being courted by Barcelona, Arsenal and PSG.
> 
> Liverpool wouldn't be able to find a quality replacement for Coutinho.




Liverpool's summer is a failure compared to what Arsenal has done. Liverpool's front office is much weaker by comparison and it shows.


----------



## phisherman

Savant said:


> Liverpool's summer is a failure compared to what Arsenal has done. Liverpool's front office is much weaker by comparison and it shows.




Transfer window is still open. Liverpool haven't sold Coutinho.


----------



## Elliman

Savant said:


> Liverpool's summer is a failure compared to what Arsenal has done. Liverpool's front office is much weaker by comparison and it shows.




Liverpool's *everything* has been a failure compared to Arsenal since the Premiership was created. It's nothing new.


----------



## YNWA14

Elliman said:


> Liverpool's *everything* has been a failure compared to Arsenal since the Premiership was created. It's nothing new.




Well I mean...Europe and all that


----------



## les Habs

les Habs said:


> So apparently the same guy that broke the Neymar to PSG story is now saying Coutinho to Liverpool. Not saying I buy it, but read he's saying that now. I pray that is wrong.




So apparently the guy who said this was wrong and the guy who broke the Neymar story did NOT report Coutinho to Liverpool. He didn't report Coutinho to BarÃ§a either.


----------



## Edo

Chimaera said:


> There's a lot of players better than Coutinho, but Liverpool have him and he's integrated. It's hard to put a price on that




Liverpool fans .

Lose Coutinho, and why would those better players exactly want to join Liverpool? It isn't an attractive destination. Especially Kovacic. He's better off on Real Madrid's bench than Liverpool's starting XI. He'd be better off going back to Milan.


----------



## Chimaera

Edo said:


> Liverpool fans .
> 
> Lose Coutinho, and why would those better players exactly want to join Liverpool? It isn't an attractive destination. Especially Kovacic. He's better off on Real Madrid's bench than Liverpool's starting XI. He'd be better off going back to Milan.




Yawn. Because they have champions league and a manager who isn't a dinosaur. Not to mention they're willing to pay wages Arsenal have never shown any desire to pay.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

With Kranevitter heading to Zenit, it looks like the Ascacibar deal fell through. PHEW!

Ascacibar did say his goodbyes in the last match. I'm thinking he still gets moved but lets hope it's not to Russia. 

Some where in Italy or France would be nice.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Will be interesting with Zenit bringing in all these guys. League rules still dictate they must play 5 Russians.


----------



## Live in the Now

There isn't a better source than him, at least with regard to what the club is thinking.


----------



## Evilo

Spanish federation didn't send a paper on time so that Neymar can't play this afternoon. 
I hope the french federation acts like an ass too when Mbappe joins Spain.


----------



## maclean

Evilo said:


> Spanish federation didn't send a paper on time so that Neymar can't play this afternoon.




Ugh, kick in the face to fans, really. I totally would've tuned in, can't imagine the feeling for say kids with a ticket to the game.


----------



## Edo

Chimaera said:


> Yawn. Because they have champions league and a manager who isn't a dinosaur. Not to mention they're willing to pay wages Arsenal have never shown any desire to pay.




Arsenal are able to attract top talent without having to overpay and worry about guys flocking to their squad for $$. Furthers my argument about Liverpool not being attractive. 

Also, players love playing for Wenger.


----------



## Evilo

Nkoulou from OL to Torino (loaned with buying option).
OM are trying to get Amavi to a loan with a 10M buying option.

Don't know if he got back to his previous form pre-injury. If he has, then good deal.


----------



## Evilo

Barca really after Lemar now. Can't see him going elsewhere if Barca is serious.


----------



## Milos Krasic

Evilo said:


> Spanish federation didn't send a paper on time so that Neymar can't play this afternoon.
> I hope the french federation acts like an ass too when Mbappe joins Spain.




Sucks for fans, but on the pitch, PSG can beat Amiens with their eyes closed. And name the score.


----------



## Evilo

4-0 psg


----------



## Evilo

L'Ã©quipe says Coutinho isn't in the group for the next Liverpool game.


----------



## hersky77

Evilo said:


> L'Ã©quipe says Coutinho isn't in the group for the next Liverpool game.




Back issues.


----------



## Savant

hersky77 said:


> Back issues.


----------



## Savant

Live in the Now said:


> There isn't a better source than him, at least with regard to what the club is thinking.




Still doesn't say he is 100% staying and frankly I won't believe it until he plays a game for Liverpool in September.


----------



## hersky77

Savant said:


>




Considering the fact some shoddy sources are saying Lanzini is his replacement, if he does move to Barca. 

The back injury is far more plausible then that garbage


----------



## Rare Jewel

Evilo said:


> Barca really after Lemar now. Can't see him going elsewhere if Barca is serious.




The last quote was 60m (euro) offer from Arsenal. Monaco don't want to sell this summer.

But if he goes to Barce at that price I wouldn't hold it against him. Too steep for me.


----------



## Evilo

Rumors here said Monaco would only sell him for 90M€.


----------



## Rare Jewel

Evilo said:


> Rumors here said Monaco would only sell him for 90M€.




Ok.

Either way nothing's been agreed upon, but at 60m euros, I'd be looking at other options.

I don't really blame them either for playing hard ball given they've already lost Bakayoko, Silva and Mendy.


----------



## Savant

hersky77 said:


> Considering the fact some shoddy sources are saying Lanzini is his replacement, if he does move to Barca.
> 
> The back injury is far more plausible then that garbage




There is no replacement links. 

Back injury worries me because it makes me wonder if they didn't want to release the news same day as the Lallana injury. Milner in the midfield is not making me feel any better about the situation.


----------



## Live in the Now

Borussia Dortmund CEO Hans-Joachim Watzke: "100 million is not enough for a quality player like Dembele. I remember Kevin de Bruyne. He was the Bundesliga record transfer. When you see the years after, it was not the best transfer though, as the team lost lots of quality."


I don't know if that means he would sell for more, but either way it seems like Barcelona is headed straight to the cleaners when buying any replacement.


----------



## Savant

Live in the Now said:


> Borussia Dortmund CEO Hans-Joachim Watzke: "100 million is not enough for a quality player like Dembele. I remember Kevin de Bruyne. He was the Bundesliga record transfer. When you see the years after, it was not the best transfer though, as the team lost lots of quality."
> 
> 
> I don't know if that means he would sell for more, but either way it seems like Barcelona is headed straight to the cleaners when buying any replacement.




I have never seen a window like this where clubs have been able to fight off top teams from signing their players before.


----------



## Live in the Now

It's because most clubs in England have a lot of money now, and obviously Dortmund and Leipzig are really financially healthy. 

The money will eventually create a market where players move once to a team with money and not again unless they turn out to not be good enough.


----------



## Savant

Live in the Now said:


> It's because most clubs in England have a lot of money now, and obviously Dortmund and Leipzig are really financially healthy.
> 
> The money will eventually create a market where players move once to a team with money and not again unless they turn out to not be good enough.




Yeah everyone is rich now. It's pretty ridiculous. Liverpool is sitting on at least 125m that then either can't, or won't, spend. Barca of all teams can't replace their players. This is unheard of.


----------



## Yoshidas Island

Lemina to Southampton for ~20M Euros. (Reported earlier today)


----------



## Deficient Mode

More than everyone being rich, I think it also has to do with everyone knowing Barcelona is sitting on 220M from the Neymar transfer. Dortmund obviously and rightly don't think that Dembele is worth less than half of what Neymar is worth. The season starting in two weeks is a huge issue as well. Dortmund tend to do their transfer business very early so they don't run into a situation like Barca is in, struggling to find a replacement. 

I don't agree that the amount of money will lead to players transferring less as well. The gaps in revenue are still growing and the richest clubs for the most part tend not to buy young unproven players. That won't change even if smaller clubs that happen to develop a top talent demand bigger fees in the future to sell them.


----------



## Bon Esprit

Live in the Now said:


> Borussia Dortmund CEO Hans-Joachim Watzke: "100 million is not enough for a quality player like Dembele. I remember Kevin de Bruyne. He was the Bundesliga record transfer. When you see the years after, it was not the best transfer though, as the team lost lots of quality."
> 
> 
> I don't know if that means he would sell for more, but either way it seems like Barcelona is headed straight to the cleaners when buying any replacement.




Don't know if true, but German focus magazine reports L'Equipe says Dembele and Barca settled on a long-term deal.

http://www.focus.de/sport/fussball/...bele-wohl-mit-barcelona-einig_id_7225540.html


----------



## Bon Esprit

Deficient Mode said:


> More than everyone being rich, I think it also has to do with everyone knowing Barcelona is sitting on 220M from the Neymar transfer. Dortmund obviously and rightly don't think that Dembele is worth less than half of what Neymar is worth. The season starting in two weeks is a huge issue as well. Dortmund tend to do their transfer business very early so they don't run into a situation like Barca is in, struggling to find a replacement.
> 
> I don't agree that the amount of money will lead to players transferring less as well. The gaps in revenue are still growing and the richest clubs for the most part tend not to buy young unproven players. That won't change even if smaller clubs that happen to develop a top talent demand bigger fees in the future to sell them.




If the focus/L'Equipe report has some legs, Barca will have to pay the price. This would be more than 100m â‚¬. Dortmund is owned by shareholders not one rich guy.


----------



## jniklast

Bon Esprit said:


> Don't know if true, but German focus magazine reports L'Equipe says Dembele and Barca settled on a long-term deal.
> 
> http://www.focus.de/sport/fussball/...bele-wohl-mit-barcelona-einig_id_7225540.html




Focus is by far the worst regarding Dortmund news - according to them Aubameyang's transfer was done like three times this summer...

But they/L'Equipe might even be right in a way, as I fully expect Dembele to end up at Barca in a year, it's just that the price for an immediate transfer is very high. Like I said, I'd expect almost 150M (some of it as bonus probably) and I doubt Barca would be ready to pay that this summer. I think it's more likely he'll go to Barca for around 100M next year.


----------



## Bon Esprit

jniklast said:


> Focus is by far the worst regarding Dortmund news - according to them Aubameyang's transfer was done like three times this summer...
> 
> But they/L'Equipe might even be right in a way, as I fully expect Dembele to end up at Barca in a year, it's just that the price for an immediate transfer is very high. Like I said, I'd expect almost 150M (some of it as bonus probably) and I doubt Barca would be ready to pay that this summer. I think it's more likely he'll go to Barca for around 100M next year.




focus.de has no sources football-related. They are trying to create some 1860 connection, since the are located in Munich. Nonetheless they are re-posting rumours and news from other sources. They ain't a sports site.
Still better and faster to use than kicker or transfermarkt. 
Germany has no tsn.ca (hockey) or the English tabloids. Maybe bild.de


----------



## jniklast

Bon Esprit said:


> focus.de has no sources football-related. They are trying to create some 1860 connection, since the are located in Munich. Nonetheless they are re-posting rumours and news from other sources. They ain't a sports site.
> Still better and faster to use than kicker or transfermarkt.
> Germany has no tsn.ca (hockey) or the English tabloids. Maybe bild.de




They had some sources in the past for some Munich stuff I think. Anyway, their selection of sources and what they post and what not is quenstionable at best. It certainly isn't better than sites that first check whether there's at least some truth to it or not. Just posting every rumour out there doesn't make a site good in my book. If I just want to read every single rumour, I can use Transfermarkt's GerÃ¼chtekÃ¼che.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

You could say connections..given that Helmut Markwort, who basically founded Focus and was their head editor and publisher for like 20 years still sits on Bayern's board of directors. The guy is naturally friends with Hoeness etc. and it was well known he used Focus to communicate his views on club affairs.


----------



## Savi

Zenit have signed Kranevitter as well now?


----------



## Evilo

Sneijder to Nice is almost done.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

leicester city turned down another offer from Roma for Mahrez. Was reportedly 35 million.


----------



## YNWA14

Evilo said:


> Sneijder to Nice is almost done.




Great move by Nice. Gonna have to watch them regularly now.


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

Getting wrecked on r/soccer for suggesting that Neymar at 25 is on a similar level to where Messi and Ronaldo were at 25. 

Is he not?


----------



## Live in the Now

No, he's not. 

Glad Sneijder will again be playing in a league I can watch.


----------



## YNWA14

Yeah that's not true. At 25 both Ronaldo and Messi were far better than what Neymar has shown in league play.


----------



## Deficient Mode

MrFunnyWobbl said:


> Getting wrecked on r/soccer for suggesting that Neymar at 25 is on a similar level to where Messi and Ronaldo were at 25.
> 
> Is he not?




Not even close to Messi


----------



## Savi

Curtinho said:


> Great move by Nice. Gonna have to watch them regularly now.




Isn't Nice a counter attacking team? Not sure how a slow, aging Sneijder will help them with that.


----------



## Evilo

No, they're a possession team that moves quickly in counter.


----------



## Savi

When I watch Nice, they never dominate possession though


----------



## Cassano

Sneijder signing in Nice is so out of left field. Seri probably gone to Barca by next week.


----------



## Evilo

Savi said:


> When I watch Nice, they never dominate possession though



55% on average last year I think.
http://www.foot01.com/equipe/nice/nice-favre-detruit-la-reputation-des-joueurs-francais,235984


----------



## Evilo

PSG are apparently after Mbappe and Fabinho.
Al-Khelaifi will meet Vasilyev this week.


----------



## Live in the Now

Stoke signed Choupo-Moting. When I saw him his first year at Hamburg, I thought there was potential there but it never really developed.

Have no idea why Stoke would sign him.


----------



## Savant

Live in the Now said:


> Stoke signed Choupo-Moting. When I saw him his first year at Hamburg, I thought there was potential there but it never really developed.
> 
> Have no idea why Stoke would sign him.




6'3"


----------



## Live in the Now

Kicker saying that if Dortmund accepted an offer for Dembele, it would have to be around 180m. 

Welcome to the new normal.


----------



## Chimaera

Live in the Now said:


> No, he's not.
> 
> Glad Sneijder will again be playing in a league I can watch.




He had a period where he was pretty good when Messi was out. In the glimpse I saw a player who could probably do more, but I think some of it is limited in that he's not always option #1. That's some of why I do understand a move for him (the money is reason 1-8). 

But the sheer dominance each match isn't there. But I think those two elements are related.


----------



## Ceremony

MrFunnyWobbl said:


> Getting wrecked on r/soccer for suggesting that Neymar at 25 is on a similar level to where Messi and Ronaldo were at 25.
> 
> Is he not?




Messi had won 4 Balloon Doors by the time he was 25


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Live in the Now said:


> Kicker saying that if Dortmund accepted an offer for Dembele, it would have to be around 180m.
> 
> Welcome to the new normal.




If that's the case we got robbed. The difference between Dembele and Neymar is 40 million? 





Chimaera said:


> He had a period where he was pretty good when Messi was out. In the glimpse I saw a player who could probably do more, but I think some of it is limited in that he's not always option #1. That's some of why I do understand a move for him (the money is reason 1-8).
> 
> But the sheer dominance each match isn't there. But I think those two elements are related.




He still isn't even close. There's no player on Messi level in terms of talent or play on the pitch.


Honestly, surprised Alli hasn't been mentioned for barca. As CM option they could do worse.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Live in the Now said:


> Stoke signed Choupo-Moting. When I saw him his first year at Hamburg, I thought there was potential there but it never really developed.
> 
> Have no idea why Stoke would sign him.






Savant said:


> 6'3"




I thought he performed well at Schalke given how tactically disorganized they are. But he made a couple mistakes (missed a penalty if I recall correctly) and Schalke fans turned on him like the short of memory pessimists that they are. Not a horrible signing for a club in Stoke's position.



Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> If that's the case we got robbed. The difference between Dembele and Neymar is 40 million?




Dembele is 5 years younger and at a similar level of talent. Doesn't seem off to me. 

As I've said before, any club that sells their best offensive player (say Dembele or Dybala) to Barca will want most of the Neymar money, and it doesn't matter if you think those players are worth far less than Neymar.


----------



## Savant

Klopp says Liverpool don't need anymore CBs

"Look out there and tell me five that would make us stronger, five. Then you win a prize! Itâ€™s difficult how it is."

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...erpool-transfers-defender-virgil-van-13438462

That is quite frankly a delusional statement.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Savant said:


> Klopp says Liverpool don't need anymore CBs
> 
> "Look out there and tell me five that would make us stronger, five. Then you win a prize! Itâ€™s difficult how it is."
> 
> http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...erpool-transfers-defender-virgil-van-13438462
> 
> That is quite frankly a delusional statement.




Maybe he means five who could be available

But he also doesn't want to publicly worsen their negotiating stance with VvD.


----------



## Savant

Deficient Mode said:


> Maybe he means five who could be available
> 
> But he also doesn't want to publicly worsen their negotiating stance with VvD.




It's already worse. 

The only worse thing is that they have no alternatives and they have at least 60m in the bank that won't be spending (if they can't get VVD) to improve that position.

I refuse to believe there are not 5 available CB's, with a 60m budget, better than Lovren.


----------



## booyakasha

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> If that's the case we got robbed. The difference between Dembele and Neymar is 40 million?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He still isn't even close. *There's no player on Messi level in terms of talent or play on the pitch.*
> 
> 
> Honestly, surprised Alli hasn't been mentioned for barca. As CM option they could do worse.




CR7??....who is a step above Messi as well.


----------



## les Habs

booyakasha said:


> CR7??....who is a step above Messi as well.




LOL. no.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Deficient Mode said:


> Dembele is 5 years younger and at a similar level of talent. Doesn't seem off to me.
> 
> As I've said before, any club that sells their best offensive player (say Dembele or Dybala) to Barca will want most of the Neymar money, and it doesn't matter if you think those players are worth far less than Neymar.




Dembele hasn't shown what Neymar has... That's a helluva lot of cash to pay on penitential.

Oh I agree and that's why I'm thinking Barca got shortchanged. The replacement who's most likely going to be inferior(minus Dybala) is going to cost a similar price.



booyakasha said:


> CR7??....who is a step above Messi as well.




lol.

In height only.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

PSG being heavily linked to Mbappe.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Dembele hasn't shown what Neymar has... That's a helluva lot of cash to pay on penitential.
> 
> Oh I agree and that's why I'm thinking Barca got shortchanged. The replacement who's most likely going to be inferior(minus Dybala) is going to cost a similar price.
> 
> 
> 
> lol.
> 
> In height only.




When Barca bought Neymar for the second highest fee ever four years ago, he hadn't played a single minute of European football. It would be hard to say that Dembele is currently less proven than Neymar was, and such a move would again be the second biggest ever.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Deficient Mode said:


> When Barca bought Neymar for the second highest fee ever four years ago, he hadn't played a single minute of European football. It would be hard to say that Dembele is currently less proven than Neymar was, and such a move would again be the second biggest ever.




We're comparing Neymar price today vs Dembele's perceived price.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> We're comparing Neymar price today vs Dembele's perceived price.




So Barca's history of making a similar transfer means nothing?


----------



## les Habs

Deficient Mode said:


> When Barca bought Neymar for the second highest fee ever four years ago




He wasn't the second highest fee ever at that time.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Deficient Mode said:


> So Barca's history of making a similar transfer means nothing?






les Habs said:


> He wasn't the second highest fee ever at that time.




I didn't even catch that lol


----------



## Deficient Mode

les Habs said:


> He wasn't the second highest fee ever at that time.




Sure, if you follow the fee (€57M) that Barca initially announced. Even further from it if you only count the money paid to the other club (€17M). All in all though, Barca spent €86M on fees for Neymar before they even started paying his wages. Only Cristiano had gone for more money before that. The focus should fall on what Barca were actually willing to pay for a transferring player: the second highest total ever at that point. Of course in Dembele's case more of the money would go to the selling club than to parents or other hangers-on, but from Barca's perspective, it's all the same: they dished out the second highest amount ever for an "unproven" player. They'll almost certainly have to do the same if they want Dembele or Dybala.


----------



## les Habs

Deficient Mode said:


> Sure, if you follow the fee (â‚¬57M) that Barca initially announced. Even further from it if you only count the money paid to the other club (â‚¬17M). All in all though, Barca spent â‚¬86M on fees for Neymar before they even started paying his wages. Only Cristiano had gone for more money before that. The focus should fall on what Barca were actually willing to pay for a transferring player: the second highest total ever at that point. Of course in Dembele's case more of the money would go to the selling club than to parents or other hangers-on, but from Barca's perspective, it's all the same: they dished out the second highest amount ever for an "unproven" player. They'll almost certainly have to do the same if they want Dembele or Dybala.




I'll believe 86 million when I see breakdown of the fees.


----------



## Elliman

I don't think Barcelona will screw this up like they did after Figo left. But hey you never know. They still have arguably the best striker in the world and the best or second best player in the world. I think they'll be alright.


----------



## jniklast

The 180M aren't mentioned by Kicker though, they say the sum has to be above 100M and is expected to be similar to Mbappe's - which is where the 180 come from I guess.

If Dembele really leaves now, I'd think 150M is more likely.


----------



## les Habs

Elliman said:


> I don't think Barcelona will screw this up like they did after Figo left. But hey you never know. They still have arguably the best striker in the world and the best or second best player in the world. I think they'll be alright.




Indeed, you never know. I'm not so confident as you are, but it's not just about how they spend that money. That said how they spend that money is my immediate concern.



jniklast said:


> The 180M aren't mentioned by Kicker though, they say the sum has to be above 100M and is expected to be similar to Mbappe's - which is where the 180 come from I guess.
> 
> If Dembele really leaves now, I'd think 150M is more likely.




Wouldn't touch him for 150 million. BVB are free to name their price, but at some point probably Dembele asks to leave. Maybe not now, but maybe next Summer. Who knows?


----------



## jniklast

les Habs said:


> Indeed, you never know. I'm not so confident as you are, but it's not just about how they spend that money. That said how they spend that money is my immediate concern.
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't touch him for 150 million. BVB are free to name their price, but at some point probably Dembele asks to leave. Maybe not now, but maybe next Summer. Who knows?




Of course he will leave sooner or later - probably sooner. Thing is that Dortmund will still get 100M next summer if nothing crazy happens, so there is no pressure to sell now. Hence why the current price has to be significantly above.


----------



## les Habs

jniklast said:


> Of course he will leave sooner or later - probably sooner. Thing is that Dortmund will still get 100M next summer if nothing crazy happens, so there is no pressure to sell now. Hence why the current price has to be significantly above.




Like I said, free to name their price and I don't blame them for it.


----------



## les Habs

A lot of rumors about clubs interested in Sergi Roberto. Chelsea a few times. United apparently now. I even read PSG would pay the clause but he refused.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

les Habs said:


> A lot of rumors about clubs interested in Sergi Roberto. Chelsea a few times. United apparently now. I even read PSG would pay the clause but he refused.




Hope he tells them to **** off.


----------



## les Habs

DatsyukOwns said:


> Hope he tells them to **** off.




He won't leave. Not yet. This season could sway him if he doesn't get the minutes he should, but I think he's quite loyal. He's also been in some of the marketing I've seen and that was even before Neymar leaving actually heated up.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

L'Equipe says Barcelona are going for Seri. Ed Aaron's who doesn't seem to be reliable also said that Barca has indicated to Nice that they would pay the 40 million clause. There is no clause but I think he was referring to what the president said.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

I doubt Roberto leaves, he's proved to be a good soldier out of position. Now that he has half a chance with Barca **** midfield(he must know this) it's a chance to make a name for himself at his club. 

Anyway read from L'Equipe that Barca agreed to personal terms with Dembele. Dortmund saying at least 100 million has to be on the table. Which is fine... 100,000,001 it is.


----------



## Evilo

Yeah Nice's president had an oral agreement with Seri : if a big team proposed 40M, he'd be let go.
OTOH, in a major surprise move to me, Monaco just sold St Maximin to Nice. No idea of the fee just yet, but he's taking his medical today.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Evilo said:


> Yeah Nice's president had an oral agreement with Seri : if a big team proposed 40M, he'd be let go.
> OTOH, in a major surprise move to me, Monaco just sold St Maximin to Nice. No idea of the fee just yet, but he's taking his medical today.




Don't you think they'll wait until Seri helps them in the final round of UCL qualifying before they let him go at the end of the window? 

Why is St. Maximin leaving? Does that open up more minutes for Mboula? Wouldn't St. Maximin figure for more minutes if Mbappe goes?


----------



## maclean

As long rumoured, French player Jonathan Biabiany transferred from Inter to Sparta Prague (edit: actually yearlong loan with option). This makes him the team's _eleventh_ incoming player under new coach Stramacionni. So far all he has to show for it is two bad losses in the EL qualifiers and a league draw.


----------



## Evilo

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Don't you think they'll wait until Seri helps them in the final round of UCL qualifying before they let him go at the end of the window?
> 
> Why is St. Maximin leaving? Does that open up more minutes for Mboula? Wouldn't St. Maximin figure for more minutes if Mbappe goes?




I have no idea, but Nice really doesn't stand much of a chance against Napoli. Fairy tail is pretty much over, and without Seri saturday, they seemed overmatched by St Etienne.

As for St Maximin, it's puzzling. To me, he was penciled as replacement for Silva at RW. Now Monaco has lots of options there : Mboula, Ghezzal, Diakhaby or Lopes for instance. But I thought St Maximin had a better chance than those.


----------



## YNWA14

Hmmm that could be interesting. St. Maximin playing with Sneijder feeding him the ball. If he can improve his finishing he could have a very nice season.

The main thing is Nice needs to have players that will move off the ball for Sneijder, and it doesn't hurt to have guys that recognize Sneijder is one of the best long range shooters in soccer and gets himself into a lot of good shooting positions.


----------



## Theon

TFM to Crystal Palace on loan. Good move for all concerned. I guess this pretty much confirms a RB coming in, Aurier or someone else.


----------



## Luigi Habs

According to Sky, Coutinho wants to join Barcelona, but won't force a trade.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

...and in news from White Hart Lane.






Do they have enough bodies for a full squad even?


----------



## Power Man

https://twitter.com/AS_Monaco/status/


----------



## Savant

Virgil Van Dijk has formally submitted a transfer request.


----------



## Evilo

Barca should throw 40M at OM for Maxime Lopez. If they don't agree, they'd negociate at around 50M. He's made for them.


----------



## hersky77

Joyce says Barca is willing to pay 120 million euros for phil. 

As a Liverpool fan I want him to stay but for that money I don't know


----------



## Burner Account

hersky77 said:


> Joyce says Barca is willing to pay 120 million euros for phil.
> 
> As a Liverpool fan I want him to stay but for that money I don't know




Short-sighted IMO. If they miss out on CL next year it sets them back multiple years. The money is one thing, but I wouldn't be comfortable selling him with three weeks left in the window and still a CL playoff to win.


----------



## hersky77

kyle evs48 said:


> Short-sighted IMO. If they miss out on CL next year it sets them back multiple years. The money is one thing, but I wouldn't be comfortable selling him with three weeks left in the window and still a CL playoff to win.




I fully expect Klopp and FSG to say no, but that is a lot of money. 

And I would only be willing to do it, if they have something lined up to replace him right away.


----------



## Savant

hersky77 said:


> Joyce says Barca is willing to pay 120 million euros for phil.
> 
> As a Liverpool fan I want him to stay but for that money I don't know




If they can reinvest the money immediately before the end of the window, they should do it. I do not trust LFC though, to reinvest it properly. 

I am still horrified by the comments yesterday about there not being 5 CBs better than Dejan Lovren. Keita is probably staying in Leipzig, and Southampton may not want to sell VVD to LFC, (despite the transfer request), out of spite. Where is that money going? That is easily over 200m in the budget (maybe closer to 250m) if they are getting 120m for Coutinho, and not getting Keita or Van Dijk. That is a major disconnect. 

We know Klopp has wanted Draxler and Zielinski in the past. That replaces Coutinho about as well as you can and give him players that he likes. LFC can add those two and still have about 100m in the bank in this scenario. Maybe they can go back in for a guy like Brandt, (who they wanted over Salah). Without Coutinho, he certainly would not have to worry about playtime! Pulisic was also a former target, but if Barca get Dembele there is no way Pulisic leaves (not that he does anyway). These players exist. 

I'm not going to speculate on anyone who has not been linked to the club, (Lemar, Anderson, etc) because there isn't time to scout new targets, and frankly I don't think that there were alternatives anyway. 

Hold on to your butts.


----------



## hersky77

As expected good on Klopp and FSG.


----------



## Live in the Now

Good. They can't sell him now.


----------



## hersky77

Savant said:


> If they can reinvest the money immediately before the end of the window, they should do it. I do not trust LFC though, to reinvest it properly.
> 
> I am still horrified by the comments yesterday about there not being 5 CBs better than Dejan Lovren. Keita is probably staying in Leipzig, and Southampton may not want to sell VVD to LFC, (despite the transfer request), out of spite. Where is that money going? That is easily over 200m in the budget (maybe closer to 250m) if they are getting 120m for Coutinho, and not getting Keita or Van Dijk. That is a major disconnect.
> 
> Hold on to your butts.





The thing with Virgil is, hes stated that he only wants to be a liverpool player.


----------



## S E P H

- Arsenal leading the race in signing Paris Saint-Germain winger Lucas Moura, according to Brazilian publication UOL Sport

- One of the players that could be heading elsewhere is Lucas Perez, with Rafa Benitez expressing an interest in bringing the striker to Newcastle says Newcastle Chronicle.

- French source Le10 Sport reported how Marseille intend to keep an eye on how often Giroud plays during the first few weeks of the new season. If the Frenchman continues to struggle for starts, they will make an approach to sign him.

- L'Equipe meanwhile reports that Barcelona are closing in on a deal for Borussia Dortmund's 20-year-old starlet Ousmane Dembele, who has also been linked with Tottenham, Chelsea and Arsenal. The young forward is reportedly keen to join Barcelona, and the question is now of negotiating a fee, with Dortmund holding out for around Â£90. Less than the 157 million they want for him.

- One report saying that Barca have joined Arsenal in the race to sign Lemar. But it sounds like, with Arsenal, they want Dembele or Lemar, while Arsenal are more in the Lemar or Seri talks. 



Evilo said:


> Yeah Nice's president had an oral agreement with Seri : if a big team proposed 40M, he'd be let go.
> OTOH, in a major surprise move to me, Monaco just sold St Maximin to Nice. No idea of the fee just yet, but he's taking his medical today.



Even though Nice is one step closer to the CL group stage, they're still willing to let him go?


----------



## Nalens Oga

kyle evs48 said:


> Short-sighted IMO. If they miss out on CL next year it sets them back multiple years. The money is one thing, but I wouldn't be comfortable selling him with three weeks left in the window and still a CL playoff to win.




I don't know about that...I'm not sure they finish top 4 even with him unless Spurs and Chelsea decline really badly. They'd probably have to sell him next year anyways and if they can squeeze out a bigger transfer out of it now than next year when a Dembele or someone becomes more of a possibility for Barcelona then that would be more helpful to them imo assuming they use the money well.


----------



## Savant

Nalens Oga said:


> I don't know about that...I'm not sure they finish top 4 even with him unless Spurs and Chelsea decline really badly. They'd probably have to sell him next year anyways and if they can squeeze out a bigger transfer out of it now than next year when a Dembele or someone becomes more of a possibility for Barcelona then that would be more helpful to them imo assuming they use the money well.




Liverpool will not be in top 4 next season unless they sign Van Dijk or Keita, regardless of what happens with Coutinho.


----------



## Savant

hersky77 said:


> The thing with Virgil is, hes stated that he only wants to be a liverpool player.




If he wants out that bad and Southampton gets a bid from Chelsea (for example) it's not a guarantee that Virgil snubs that if Soho wants to spite Liverpool.


----------



## Burner Account

hersky77 said:


> I fully expect Klopp and FSG to say no, but that is a lot of money.
> 
> And I would only be willing to do it, if they have something lined up to replace him right away.






Savant said:


> If they can reinvest the money immediately before the end of the window, they should do it. I do not trust LFC though, to reinvest it properly.
> 
> I am still horrified by the comments yesterday about there not being 5 CBs better than Dejan Lovren. Keita is probably staying in Leipzig, and Southampton may not want to sell VVD to LFC, (despite the transfer request), out of spite. Where is that money going? That is easily over 200m in the budget (maybe closer to 250m) if they are getting 120m for Coutinho, and not getting Keita or Van Dijk. That is a major disconnect.
> 
> Hold on to your butts.




Right now they have him signed for what - four or five more years - with no release clause. Liverpool are in a position of power. Selling Coutinho and having to replace him in three weeks puts them in a position to be gouged. It's irrelevant given the club's stance, but I just would not have much confidence in their ability to reinforce in three weeks. It would be a significant risk.



Nalens Oga said:


> I don't know about that...I'm not sure they finish top 4 even with him unless Spurs and Chelsea decline really badly. They'd probably have to sell him next year anyways and if they can squeeze out a bigger transfer out of it now than next year when a Dembele or someone becomes more of a possibility for Barcelona then that would be more helpful to them imo assuming they use the money well.




Nobody is _sure_ they will finish top four, but selling Coutinho right now doesn't help their chances of doing so. I fully expect them to sell him next summer.


----------



## Savant

kyle evs48 said:


> Right now they have him signed for what - four or five more years - with no release clause. Liverpool are in a position of power. Selling Coutinho and having to replace him in three weeks puts them in a position to be gouged. It's irrelevant given the club's stance, but I just would not have much confidence in their ability to reinforce in three weeks. It would be a significant risk.
> 
> Nobody is _sure_ they will finish top four, but selling Coutinho right now doesn't help their chances of doing so. I fully expect them to sell him next summer.




Liverpool is in a position now but that is a ton of money and losing Coutinho to them is inevitable. I don't think it's any better than 50/50 that he stays.

Liverpool historically does not keep players that have had their head turned completely against their will.


----------



## Live in the Now

Voetbal International saying van Dijk is still set on Liverpool.

https://www.vi.nl/nieuws/van-dijk-dient-transferverzoek-in-bij-southampton#

Considering Liverpool currently has Klavan as third CB, they desperately need to sign this player.


----------



## Burner Account

Let's see if they can screw this up again.


----------



## Savant

Live in the Now said:


> Voetbal International saying van Dijk is still set on Liverpool.
> 
> https://www.vi.nl/nieuws/van-dijk-dient-transferverzoek-in-bij-southampton#
> 
> Considering Liverpool currently has Klavan as third CB, they desperately need to sign this player.




It's okay. There aren't 5 CBs on planet earth better than Lovren.


----------



## Live in the Now

Savant said:


> It's okay. There aren't 5 CBs on planet earth better than Lovren.



I think that was just obfuscation. Some people take what Klopp says way too literally.


----------



## Savant

Live in the Now said:


> I think that was just obfuscation. Some people take what Klopp says way too literally.




I take most things too literal. Stupid brain. 

But either way that's a very bad statement.


----------



## Burner Account

Savant said:


> Liverpool is in a position now but that is a ton of money and losing Coutinho to them is inevitable. I don't think it's any better than 50/50 that he stays.
> 
> Liverpool historically does not keep players that have had their head turned completely against their will.




As I said, I fully expect him to leave next summer. I just think three weeks is a short time to execute a succession plan.


----------



## hersky77

Savant said:


> It's okay. There aren't 5 CBs on planet earth better than Lovren.




I think that was more to give his back line confidence, more than anything else. Especially Lovren who from time to time needs positive reinforcement


----------



## Savant

kyle evs48 said:


> As I said, I fully expect him to leave next summer. I just think three weeks is a short time to execute a succession plan.




Too short for LFC's front office.


----------



## Savant

hersky77 said:


> I think that was more to give his back line confidence, more than anything else. Especially Lovren who from time to time needs positive reinforcement




I don't buy that. Sorry.

I don't think they had a Plan B to VVD and they are trying to spin it positively if they can't get him.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Barca really do need to get moving. Still a lot of holes and lack of depth in their roster, and all of their best players are 28-30. Just a lot of mistakes left on that roster.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Scenes when Van Dijk goes to Chelsea.


----------



## Savant

TopKex said:


> Scenes when Van Dijk goes to Chelsea.




Realistic and completely, intentionally spiteful by Southampton if it happens. My problem isn't if Van Dijk goes elsewhere. My problem is that LFC clearly don't have an alternative if that happens.


----------



## Ceremony

Savant said:


> Virgil Van Dijk has formally submitted a transfer request.




Has he posted it on instagram?


----------



## Savant

Ceremony said:


> Has he posted it on instagram?




Report. 
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...an-dijk-hands-in-southampton-transfer-request

Virgil's Statement. 
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/sa..._statement_after_handing_in_transfer_request/


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Savant said:


> Virgil Van Dijk has formally submitted a transfer request.




What was he waiting for? 

If Southampton has held on this long, I don't why they'd make a 180 now.


----------



## Savant

Jersey Fresh said:


> What was he waiting for?
> 
> If Southampton has held on this long, I don't why they'd make a 180 now.




Southampton fined him for the two weeks that he has been training alone so he did the request.


----------



## Vipers31

I have no idea why the concept of a formal transfer request seems to be treated as meaningful by the British media. It's almost entirely meaningless. The only effect it can have is that a player might not be eligible for a loyalty bonus despite staying, and from what I heard, even that is something few agents have even heard of. It's basically entirely symbolic and doesn't have the power to change anything.


----------



## Savant

Vipers31 said:


> I have no idea why the concept of a formal transfer request seems to be treated as meaningful by the British media. It's almost entirely meaningless. The only effect it can have is that a player might not be eligible for a loyalty bonus despite staying, and from what I heard, even that is something few agents have even heard of. It's basically entirely symbolic and doesn't have the power to change anything.




It's all a joke.


----------



## bleedblue1223

I'll be annoyed if Chelsea goes after Van Dijk. There are 2 positions that we do not have to do anything about, GK and CB. If we get Van Dijk it means either Christensen is gone or they plan on playing Azpilicueta at wing-back, both of which would not be great ideas.


----------



## Ceremony

Vipers31 said:


> I have no idea why the concept of a formal transfer request seems to be treated as meaningful by the British media. It's almost entirely meaningless. The only effect it can have is that a player might not be eligible for a loyalty bonus despite staying, and from what I heard, even that is something few agents have even heard of. It's basically entirely symbolic and doesn't have the power to change anything.




https://www.theguardian.com/sport/f...ll-cliches-10-stages-protracted-transfer-saga



> Chapter VI â€“ The "Come-And-Get-Me" Plea
> 
> As outlined in Chapter III, the "hands-off" warning has an evil twin. It arrives in the form of the "come-and-get-me" plea. An even more awkardly-named clichÃ©, the "come-and-get-me" plea is the clear declaration from the player that, after the derisory opening bid, he now wants to leave the club, despite his earlier pledge of loyalty.
> 
> Perhaps rather a tabloid device, it's often a precursor for slapping in a written transfer request â€“ verbal, emailed, texted, tweeted or carrier-pigeoned transfer requests are, regrettably, few and far between. While the bid rejection succeeds in at least stalling the inevitable, the club's reaction to their player's request to leave matters not a jot. For the record, though, the written transfer request is turned down.
> 
> In extreme cases, the selling club (for that is what they will surely be) banishes the player to train with the reserves or the youth team, an fate universally known as being "frozen out".
> 
> After this spectacular act of face-spite-induced nose removal, the club then prepares itself for the player's departure. Such a decision may indicate that the chairman/manager is a learned student of the PTS, and recognises that resistance is futile.
> 
> As a side note, it must be added that this is a precarious, pivotal stage for the player. If they get injured and the deal collapses, the already frozen-out player will find themselves in the terrifying-sounding transfer limbo. The only viable way of escaping transfer limbo is to humbly withdraw the written transfer request request and knuckle down once more.


----------



## Live in the Now

TopKex said:


> Scenes when Van Dijk goes to Chelsea.




I would laugh actually. Only Liverpool could blow it when a player publicly stated they wanted to go there, then sat out of training so he could go there, then put in a transfer request so he could go there.

That series of events should be amusing to anyone.


----------



## Savant

bleedblue1223 said:


> I'll be annoyed if Chelsea goes after Van Dijk. There are 2 positions that we do not have to do anything about, GK and CB. If we get Van Dijk it means either Christensen is gone or they plan on playing Azpilicueta at wing-back, both of which would not be great ideas.




And when exactly has that stopped them before?


----------



## Vipers31

Ceremony said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/sport/f...ll-cliches-10-stages-protracted-transfer-saga




So, basically just an invented chapter so that papers can get the most out of a lengthy transfer saga? That does seem about right.


----------



## Cassano

Tbh if I were Spurs or Arsenal, I'd push for VvD as well. Toby's contract issue and Koscielny is old/injury prone. 

But I think Liverpool will get it done.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Telegraph is reporting that Chelsea will sign 3+ players by end of window and mentioned Van Dijk, Aurier, Drinkwater, Oxlade-Chamberlin, Barkley, and Candreva.


----------



## PeteWorrell

bleedblue1223 said:


> Telegraph is reporting that Chelsea will sign 3+ players by end of window and mentioned Van Dijk, Aurier, Drinkwater, Oxlade-Chamberlin, Barkley, and Candreva.



Crazy that Chelsea are so desperate to fill the English players quota that they have to look at the likes of Drinkwater.


----------



## Savant

PeteWorrell said:


> Crazy that Chelsea are so desperate to fill the English players quota that they have to look at the likes of Drinkwater.




I mean, we know he can play well with Kante.


----------



## bleedblue1223

PeteWorrell said:


> Crazy that Chelsea are so desperate to fill the English players quota that they have to look at the likes of Drinkwater.




He's perfect for the 4th midfielder role though. Easy transition in knowing Kante, fills the home-grown role, and he would presumably accept a rotational role on a top side.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Just watching Barca for the first time this preseason... with 3 weeks left until the window closes they have to find Ney's replacement, fill the other holes in the team, and trim the fat.... Good LUCK.

Gomes, Douglas, Turan and Munir all need to leave. Like yesterday.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

West Ham signs some 18 year old Montenegran from Sweden, Sead Haksabanovic. 

Hopefully he hits the ground running like Toni Martinez has.


----------



## joe89

Jersey Fresh said:


> West Ham signs some 18 year old Montenegran from Sweden, Sead Haksabanovic.
> 
> Hopefully he hits the ground running like Toni Martinez has.




He's been very good on a bad team. Physically very matured. Sounds like they paid €3.5M so should really believe in him.


----------



## John Pedro

AS reporting that PSG are after Oblak, Atleti wants 100m euros.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Interesting times when a keeper is being quoted at 100m.

Kind of weird for PSG to ask though, no chance Atleti considers it with their transfer ban.


----------



## Luigi Habs

John Pedro said:


> AS reporting that PSG are after Oblak, Atleti wants 100m euros.




This is getting out of hand  thanks to Qatar plastic money

Juve must feel robbed now with the Pogba transfer


----------



## hatterson

Oblack at 100m seems more like a joke price given DDG was supposed to be something like 65.


----------



## Epictetus

It's because he has a release clause at that amount or close to it.


----------



## Cassano

bleedblue1223 said:


> Interesting times when a keeper is being quoted at 100m.
> 
> Kind of weird for PSG to ask though, no chance Atleti considers it with their transfer ban.




I think I'd give 100m for Courtois, DDG or Neuer. 

Oblak not really.


----------



## Live in the Now

100m for a keeper...no way. But if PSG wants your keeper you should make them pay 100m. Why not?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Live in the Now said:


> 100m for a keeper...no way. But if PSG wants your keeper you should make them pay 100m. Why not?




Yep. At this point I'd probably ask a minimum of 100M from PSG for any player at any position. 

Odd now to think we were ridiculing City for paying 40M+ for every player earlier this summer.


----------



## Power Man




----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

bleedblue1223 said:


> He's perfect for the 4th midfielder role though. Easy transition in knowing Kante, fills the home-grown role, and he would presumably accept a rotational role on a top side.




Drinkwater being a rotational player for Chelsea is insane.


----------



## les Habs

Deficient Mode said:


> Barca really do need to get moving. Still a lot of holes and lack of depth in their roster, and all of their best players are 28-30. Just a lot of mistakes left on that roster.




There aren't a lot of holes and it's a lack of quality depth to a degree. The roster does need to be purged of a lot of the dead wood. Still I can see guys like Roberto, Samper and Deulofeu making a difference. Deulofeu playing a full season in Neymar's spot would be very interesting. He obviously wouldn't match up to what Neymar did, but I think he'd provide plenty of creativity and I'd be very curious to see what he does. I'd also add Alena who I think if given a shot with some good rotation time would show up despite his age and experience. Anyway, the starting XI isn't a big concern.

The clock is ticking, yes. Still time to get some work done. They should have been working a lot more in July though but the Neymar saga seemed to be a distraction. It shouldn't have been really. I'll be curious to see what happens in the next 7-8 days. I think that if you cleared out the players that need to go you could land a CM and a particular LB rather quickly. CB could probably done quickly as well. That would leave spending the Neymar money which if you get down to it you hammer out a deal or two, though there they need to be careful. You accomplish that, which is realistic if they're willing to make the right moves, and you have some proven quality at pretty young ages. I realize this isn't Football Manager, but good players could be attainable at prices the club could afford.


----------



## LemmyUlanov55

Jersey Fresh said:


> West Ham signs some 18 year old Montenegran from Sweden, Sead Haksabanovic.
> 
> Hopefully he hits the ground running like Toni Martinez has.



One could hope for. As long as he doesn't go the typical young Hammers player way.. A couple of cup game subs, out on loan, another loan and released..


----------



## Deficient Mode

les Habs said:


> There aren't a lot of holes and it's a lack of quality depth to a degree. The roster does need to be purged of a lot of the dead wood. Still I can see guys like Roberto, Samper and Deulofeu making a difference. Deulofeu playing a full season in Neymar's spot would be very interesting. He obviously wouldn't match up to what Neymar did, but I think he'd provide plenty of creativity and I'd be very curious to see what he does. I'd also add Alena who I think if given a shot with some good rotation time would show up despite his age and experience. Anyway, the starting XI isn't a big concern.
> 
> The clock is ticking, yes. Still time to get some work done. They should have been working a lot more in July though but the Neymar saga seemed to be a distraction. It shouldn't have been really. I'll be curious to see what happens in the next 7-8 days. I think that if you cleared out the players that need to go you could land a CM and a particular LB rather quickly. CB could probably done quickly as well. That would leave spending the Neymar money which if you get down to it you hammer out a deal or two, though there they need to be careful. You accomplish that, which is realistic if they're willing to make the right moves, and you have some proven quality at pretty young ages. I realize this isn't Football Manager, but good players could be attainable at prices the club could afford.




Yeah, they don't really have holes, just no remarkable backups and a couple weaker spots in the starting 11. The team is still great, and they'll probably benefit a lot just from having a summer off for once. I'd just be worried how they'll replace those guys in the 28-30 range given how much they've struggled to replace Xavi and Iniesta the past two or three years. Better to find young top talents who can grow into those roles now than have to replace Messi, Busquets, Suarez, and Pique when they're all 32 or 33. Given the quality of those players, it might take several years to find and sign half suitable replacements. A new less corrupt and more competent board would help for sure.


----------



## Evilo

Maybe it was a distraction but it still is because Barca still hasn't sent back the transfer agreement papaer, thus blocking Neymar from playing this weekend (if not given by friday).

Once again, Barca act like sore losers.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> Maybe it was a distraction but it still is because Barca still hasn't sent back the transfer agreement papaer, thus blocking Neymar from playing this weekend (if not given by friday).
> 
> Once again, Barca act like sore losers.




Or a bunch of idiots. Or maybe they're stalling until the window closes. Stupid like a fox!

Seriously though speaking of idiots what happened with Tebas plan of not accept the transfer fee, he realized how stupid it was and backed off?


----------



## Deficient Mode

Monaco want Imbula apparently. Just need to negotiate with Stoke.


----------



## Evilo

Deficient Mode said:


> Monaco want Imbula apparently. Just need to negotiate with Stoke.



And Dolberg to replace Mbappe.


----------



## jniklast

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Or a bunch of idiots. Or maybe they're stalling until the window closes. Stupid like a fox!
> 
> Seriously though speaking of idiots what happened with Tebas plan of not accept the transfer fee, he realized how stupid it was and backed off?




I thought Neymar paid it directly to Barca and they accepted.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Evilo said:


> And Dolberg to replace Mbappe.




Mbappe needs replacing now? There's no hope for retaining him? If so Barca should be all over that. **** off madrid and replace Neymar. 2 stones


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

jniklast said:


> I thought Neymar paid it directly to Barca and they accepted.




Last I heard Tebas genius plan of keeping star players in the league was to breach contract obligations. He could be better served in improving his league by hiring refs with the ability of sight and video replay. Nah let's stick with criminal activity... that's how things are done in La liga.


----------



## Evilo

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Mbappe needs replacing now? There's no hope for retaining him? If so Barca should be all over that. **** off madrid and replace Neymar. 2 stones




He has asked for a transfer. He's apparently very close to PSG, but 1/ I have no idea how PSG would make it work and 2/ I doubt Monaco sells to PSG.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Mbappe needs replacing now? There's no hope for retaining him? If so Barca should be all over that. **** off madrid and replace Neymar. 2 stones




Apparently PSG are the lead contenders for Mbappe too lol. It was reported a couple days back that they have a personal agreement with him. I've also seen that Madrid were unlikely to go after him this summer. They'd probably need to sell Bale as well to make room for him. City might have a shot.

Otherwise Mbappe should just go next summer.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Hmmm that's all well and good but Barca should definitely continue to offer Coutinho inane amount of money only to be rejected.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Hmmm that's all well and good but Barca should definitely continue to offer Coutinho inane amount of money only to be rejected.




Come to think of it, Barca should probably be aggressive courting Mbappe this summer with the Neymar money. Not a Neymar style player at all but Messi can adapt to anyone.

PSG and City have both spent around €240M this summer. Not sure they could spend another €180M without getting in trouble with FFP, as lax as it is. Madrid want to buy him next summer and not sell Bale now.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

*J*



Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> Hmmm that's all well and good but Barca should definitely continue to offer Coutinho inane amount of money only to be rejected.




Apperantly Barca has represntives in England to close the deal. Getting linked to every god damn player is annoying.

They are saying RaÃ¼l SanllehÃ­ who people are saying the main man when it comes to signings?


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Deficient Mode said:


> Come to think of it, Barca should probably be aggressive courting Mbappe this summer with the Neymar money. Not a Neymar style player at all but Messi can adapt to anyone.
> 
> PSG and City have both spent around â‚¬240M this summer. Not sure they could spend another â‚¬180M without getting in trouble with FFP, as lax as it is. Madrid want to buy him next summer and not sell Bale now.




What they should do is stop messing around and get Dybala, Saul and tap up Isco.



DatsyukOwns said:


> Apperantly Barca has represntives in England to close the deal. Getting linked to every god damn player is annoying.
> 
> They are saying RaÃ¼l SanllehÃ­ who people are saying the main man when it comes to signings?




If he's the man that brought the legends turan, Gomes, pack and Douglas then I'm confident!


----------



## Luigi Habs

Evilo said:


> He has asked for a transfer. He's apparently very close to PSG, but 1/ I have no idea how PSG would make it work and 2/ I doubt Monaco sells to PSG.




Where would he fit in PSG lineup though? Would they switch to 2 strikers formation with the season already started?


----------



## maclean

> Former Arsenal and England defender Tony Adams is leading a consortium which has struck an agreement to buy Crystal Palace for Ã‚Â£200m. (Daily Star)




You can buy a whole PL team for less than Neymar


----------



## hatterson

Deficient Mode said:


> Apparently PSG are the lead contenders for Mbappe too lol. It was reported a couple days back that they have a personal agreement with him. I've also seen that Madrid were unlikely to go after him this summer. They'd probably need to sell Bale as well to make room for him. City might have a shot.
> 
> Otherwise Mbappe should just go next summer.




Really there's 5 clubs that could afford mbappe without selling players to make it work.

PSG, Real Madrid, Barca, United, City.

PSG and City have obviously spent huge so far so I'm not sure how it would work this year. United has spent a lot too but could probably make it fit although he's not going there.

That leaves Barca and Real Madrid as the only real options this summer.


----------



## Evilo

Luiginho said:


> Where would he fit in PSG lineup though? Would they switch to 2 strikers formation with the season already started?




Either two strikers or get rid of ADM.


----------



## Savi

Or finally get rid of Cavani


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## Halladay

They cant sell him after all they said, both Klopp and the club will lose all credibility.


----------



## PeteWorrell

BlameUtley said:


> They cant sell him after all they said, both Klopp and the club will lose all credibility.



Klopp should resign immediately because clearly the owners aren't committed to winning.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

I doubt we are signing him. Bunch of idiots should go for real elite young talent (dybala, dembele, mbappe)


----------



## Vasilevskiy

Rumoured price is not even 100m pounds by the way


----------



## YNWA14

I'm sure if Coutinho is sold it's something that management will have spoken to at length with Klopp, and I'm sure Klopp is the direct link to the player so he knows where his head is at.

Klopp has been in these situations before and I'm sure that it's a frustrating situation to be in but he's a professional and Coutinho is replaceable. It's just important that they actually re-invest the money and do it properly so Klopp can integrate the new player ASAP.

I'm not in the camp that thinks losing Coutinho would be devastating because I do think our team is quite strong in general. I'm more concerned about what happens if we don't get van Dijk.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Vasilevskiy said:


> I doubt we are signing him. Bunch of idiots should go for real elite young talent (dybala, dembele, mbappe)




Yeah, this is going to be the Verratti saga all over again. Liverpool has no incentive to sell, important season coming up for them

Gerard Romero says Barca reps are in Germany to try and close a Dembele deal. Hope that happens, not confident in that either.


----------



## phisherman

Curtinho said:


> I'm sure if Coutinho is sold it's something that management will have spoken to at length with Klopp, and I'm sure Klopp is the direct link to the player so he knows where his head is at.
> 
> Klopp has been in these situations before and I'm sure that it's a frustrating situation to be in but he's a professional and Coutinho is replaceable. It's just important that they actually re-invest the money and do it properly so Klopp can integrate the new player ASAP.
> 
> I'm not in the camp that thinks losing Coutinho would be devastating because I do think our team is quite strong in general. I'm more concerned about what happens if we don't get van Dijk.




'Member when Liverpool fans thought losing Sterling was fine because Ibe is better?

I 'member.


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

phisherman said:


> 'Member when Liverpool fans thought losing Sterling was fine because Ibe is better?
> 
> I 'member.




Pepperidge Farms remembers...


----------



## Halladay

phisherman said:


> 'Member when Liverpool fans thought losing Sterling was fine because Ibe is better?
> 
> I 'member.




No, but Mane clearly is. Not the same situation though.


----------



## Jeffrey

phisherman said:


> 'Member when Liverpool fans thought losing Sterling was fine because Ibe is better?
> 
> I 'member.



I believe he was part of the group that believed that.

You don't replace elite talent easily. Suarez, Coutinho are that level of talent.

I don't see Liverpool selling Coutinho as they don't need the money and they cannot find a proper replacement.

Also imagine the PR storm if you have been telling fans that money is not an issue and then without spending anything close to what was inititally rumored and denied your 2 main targets you just sell your best player. It does not make any sense.


----------



## Evilo

Savi said:


> Or finally get rid of Cavani




Hopefully, the past season proved you wrong enough 
Heck, he already has one goal and one assist in 1 game this year.


----------



## YNWA14

phisherman said:


> 'Member when Liverpool fans thought losing Sterling was fine because Ibe is better?
> 
> I 'member.




Did losing Sterling really hurt Liverpool though? It facilitated the buying of Firmino, and then we replaced Sterling later on with Mane, who is better. Yeah, Ibe stagnated but it happens. Sterling wasn't carrying Liverpool anywhere or anything and we got two better players to fill his spot in the team afterward.

If Coutinho is replaced in a similar fashion Liverpool will be even better, as mentioned. But losing him isn't going to be the difference between top 4 and not for Liverpool since, in theory, his spot from last season was already replaced by Salah (effectively Mane really) who is more effective on the wing than Coutinho was.

Maybe it's the difference between winning the league or a trophy if we can't find a top midfielder, but realistically speaking with Mane all season and the addition of Salah and a healthy Henderson the team is already better than last year (especially when you consider that most of the team is still fairly young and should be improving). Add Solanke, Sturridge, Grujic, Kent, Woodburn, a 'new and improved' Moreno, Robertson, Gomez and TAA the real glaring issue is at CB with Klavan backing up Lovren/Matip.

Obviously having Coutinho in midfield for this season would be a big plus and likely help the team depth wise and maybe give it that extra push to challenge for the title, but ultimately he's not going to be the difference between finishing top 4 or not, IMO, and losing him doesn't make us worse than last season.


----------



## phisherman

Curtinho said:


> Did losing Sterling really hurt Liverpool though? It facilitated the buying of Firmino, and then we replaced Sterling later on with Mane, who is better. Yeah, Ibe stagnated but it happens. Sterling wasn't carrying Liverpool anywhere or anything and we got two better players to fill his spot in the team afterward.
> 
> If Coutinho is replaced in a similar fashion Liverpool will be even better, as mentioned. But losing him isn't going to be the difference between top 4 and not for Liverpool since, in theory, his spot from last season was already replaced by Salah (effectively Mane really) who is more effective on the wing than Coutinho was.
> 
> Maybe it's the difference between winning the league or a trophy if we can't find a top midfielder, but realistically speaking with Mane all season and the addition of Salah and a healthy Henderson the team is already better than last year (especially when you consider that most of the team is still fairly young and should be improving). Add Solanke, Sturridge, Grujic, Kent, Woodburn, a 'new and improved' Moreno, Robertson, Gomez and TAA the real glaring issue is at CB with Klavan backing up Lovren/Matip.
> 
> *Obviously having Coutinho in midfield for this season would be a big plus and likely help the team depth wise and maybe give it that extra push to challenge for the title, but ultimately he's not going to be the difference between finishing top 4 or not, IMO, and losing him doesn't make us worse than last season.*




Sure bud. Liverpool had to wait until the final day to make it to 4th and finished 1 point ahead of 5th but losing their most important midfielder won't make any difference and they're guaranteed top 4.


----------



## YNWA14

phisherman said:


> Sure bud. Liverpool had to wait until the final day to make it to 4th and finished 1 point ahead of 5th but losing their most important midfielder won't make any difference and they're guaranteed top 4.




Sure bud. That same team that missed Henderson, Coutinho and Mane for a large chunk and wasn't even playing Coutinho in the midfield last season, but somehow will be losing their 'most important midfielder' who didn't even play midfield. They already played without many of their best players last season for large chunks and still made top 4 easily dispatching of Arsenal in the process. If Coutinho leaves it's a similar team only with, in theory, a healthy Mane, Henderson and Salah replacing Coutinho as a forward. Then of course most of the team is/was under 26 and coming into their primes.

Whatever floats your boat though.


----------



## les Habs

Evilo said:


> Maybe it was a distraction but it still is because Barca still hasn't sent back the transfer agreement papaer, thus blocking Neymar from playing this weekend (if not given by friday).
> 
> Once again, Barca act like sore losers.




Last I heard a couple of days ago was that the league hadn't sent the paperwork, and I think you yourself posted this as well, and that they had a week to send it. Not saying it isn't BarÃ§a, but that was the last I read.


----------



## phisherman

Curtinho said:


> Sure bud. That same team that missed Henderson, Coutinho and Mane for a large chunk and wasn't even playing Coutinho in the midfield last season, but somehow will be losing their 'most important midfielder' who didn't even play midfield. They already played without many of their best players last season for large chunks and still made *top 4 easily* dispatching of Arsenal in the process. If Coutinho leaves it's a similar team only with, in theory, a healthy Mane, Henderson and Salah replacing Coutinho as a forward. Then of course most of the team is/was under 26 and coming into their primes.
> 
> Whatever floats your boat though.





Ha! "Easily". 76 points vs 75 points. "Easily". I feel bad for the ridicule you will get if Liverpool don't make top 4.

But then again you survived gems like Henderson = top 5 midfielder and Ibe > Sterling.


----------



## hatterson

That Kool-Aid must be good.


----------



## ViD

Looks like Zenit bought every available Argentinian prospect 

I still doubt it's a good idea to have so many players from the same country that are not domestic


----------



## John Pedro

Barcelona will offer 120m for Coutinho!


----------



## spintheblackcircle

http://www.espnfc.com/soccer-transf...o-sell-philippe-coutinho-to-barcelona-sources

Barcelona have reached an agreement with Liverpool to sign Philippe Coutinho after the Brazilian put pressure on the Premier League club to let him leave, sources close to the Catalan club told ESPN Deportes' Jordi Blanco.

Coutinho is set to join Barca for a base fee of â‚¬90 million (Â£81.6m), with bonuses that could bring the deal to â‚¬120m (Â£108.8m), as the Catalan club begin to spend the â‚¬222m they received from Paris Saint-Germain for Neymar last week.


----------



## hatterson

ESPN Deportes saying the deal is all but done.

€90m initial fee, bonuses could bring it to €120m

http://espndeportes.espn.com/futbol...tinho-regresa-la-magia-brasilena-al-barcelona

http://www.espnfc.com/soccer-transf...o-sell-philippe-coutinho-to-barcelona-sources

Not sure how reliable the guy is, but there's a lot of smoke.


----------



## Evilo

les Habs said:


> Last I heard a couple of days ago was that the league hadn't sent the paperwork, and I think you yourself posted this as well, and that they had a week to send it. Not saying it isn't BarÃƒÂ§a, but that was the last I read.




Read it was Barca and that they had up to 30 days.


----------



## Burner Account

ESPN has ran with it yesterday and today.

Bild apparently saying Barcelona meeting with Dortmund on Dembele.


----------



## John Pedro

Speaking of Zenit, they loaned Hernani to St. Etienne. Used to really like him, don't know how he progressed/regressed in his time in Russia. Still kind of young, if there's a buy clause, that could be a nice deal for all involved.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Maybe 'pool will take Sissoko off our hands. heh


----------



## maclean

kyle evs48 said:


> Bild apparently saying Barcelona meeting with Dortmund on Dembele.




I hope they can get that done. 120m for Coutinho doesn't really strike me as the best use of the Neymar money but hey, we'll see


----------



## Burner Account

Pearce dismissing today's rumors


----------



## jniklast

Kicker saying Dortmund would be willing to let Dembele go for 120M


----------



## ViD

John Pedro said:


> Speaking of Zenit, they loaned Hernani to St. Etienne. Used to really like him, don't know how he progressed/regressed in his time in Russia. Still kind of young, if there's a buy clause, that could be a nice deal for all involved.




He was pretty bad recently and lost his spot on the team


----------



## Evilo

Liverpool likes Ziyech and Pulisic to replace Coutinho. Will BVB sell both Pulisic and Dembele though?


----------



## YNWA14

Unlikely that Pulisic would move, IMO. Ziyech would be an interesting choice; the talent is certainly there though I'm still sour on the whole for how the KNVB and him handled his NT allegiance/call-ups. Though I do mostly blame the KNVB for mishandling the situation so badly.

I'd have to think that we'd get more than Ziyech with the Coutinho/Keita/vvD money though.


----------



## Edo

Enjoy the Champions League Liverpool. It'll be a long time before you get back.


----------



## Halladay

Edo said:


> Enjoy the Champions League Liverpool. It'll be a long time before you get back.




Mighty.


----------



## Jeffrey

Edo said:


> Enjoy the Champions League Liverpool. It'll be a long time before you get back.



That seem like a poor attempt at trolling.

One thing is certain now.. Liverpool need new owners.


----------



## Chimaera

It's stupid money, but selling him (if it happens) is dumb. They probably finish about the same in the table (no VVD and they're not getting near top 4) but it's hard to lose your most talented player a few days before the first match and not feel like it's a tragedy. There will be riots.


----------



## Chimaera

Jeffrey said:


> That seem like a poor attempt at trolling.
> 
> One thing is certain now.. Liverpool need new owners.




I guess in the sense that the owners sanctioned a director of football and a backroom who can't get deals done. But they've been clear that they don't know the game.


----------



## Cassano

I don't think Coutinho is Barca quality, but in the games down the stretch he was really ****ing good last year IMO. Liverpool are in a world of hurt if he leaves.


----------



## YNWA14

phisherman said:


> Ha! "Easily". 76 points vs 75 points. "Easily". I feel bad for the ridicule you will get if Liverpool don't make top 4.
> 
> But then again you survived gems like Henderson = top 5 midfielder and Ibe > Sterling.




Unlike most when I say things, right or wrong, I own up to them and I also actually provide more than just sour one liners or attacking statements to things other people say. Henderson is a top 5 player in his role, and I still maintain that when he's healthy. Ibe stagnated and Sterling is clearly better, but they're also still very young.

As far as the point thing is concerned Arsenal had to win 5 games in a row and 7 of their last 8 just to finish 1 point behind Liverpool. Why is it that Liverpool is being looked as some kind of fluke into the top 4 and you're so optimistic about Arsenal or something? That includes a time when both Coutinho, Mane and Matip were injured as well having AFCON issues and Lovren getting injured, Henderson getting injured, and Firmino having injury/legal troubles in the middle of the season when we went on a terrible run of form. If anything Liverpool were unlucky to finish as low as they did considering their injury/fitness/squad depth woes. The team this year will be deeper, and in theory should be healthier as well as just better overall and more developed together.

But to each their own.


----------



## hersky77

Edo said:


> Enjoy the Champions League Liverpool. It'll be a long time before you get back.




Congrats on winning another community shield, takes the best of the best to win those


----------



## Suiteness

If the player wants to leave and the other team is willing to pony up the money to trigger the release clause, there's not much the owners can do about the situation.


----------



## Jeffrey

Suiteness said:


> If the player wants to leave and the other team is willing to pony up the money to trigger the release clause, there's not much the owners can do about the situation.



which release clause?


----------



## Prntscrn

I haven't seen any of the journalists who I find really trustworthy say anything other than Liverpool won't sell. Obv all the media hysteria makes me a bit worried but until somone like Pearce or Reddy say deal is done I won't believe it. 

If they sell I will be ****ing pissed


----------



## phisherman

Curtinho said:


> Unlike most when I say things, right or wrong, I own up to them and I also actually provide more than just sour one liners or attacking statements to things other people say. Henderson is a top 5 player in his role, and I still maintain that when he's healthy. Ibe stagnated and Sterling is clearly better, but they're also still very young.
> 
> As far as the point thing is concerned Arsenal had to win 5 games in a row and 7 of their last 8 just to finish 1 point behind Liverpool. Why is it that Liverpool is being looked as some kind of fluke into the top 4 and you're so optimistic about Arsenal or something? That includes a time when both Coutinho, Mane and Matip were injured as well having AFCON issues and Lovren getting injured, Henderson getting injured, and Firmino having injury/legal troubles in the middle of the season when we went on a terrible run of form. If anything Liverpool were unlucky to finish as low as they did considering their injury/fitness/squad depth woes. The team this year will be deeper, and in theory should be healthier as well as just better overall and more developed together.
> 
> But to each their own.




Except Arsenal and other teams have made signings to improve their team. And how can you guess that they will be healthier? Injuries happen and Klopp's style of play is physically taxing on players.

The transfer window isn't over yet but for you to be so confident that Liverpool will finish top 4 when they're about to lose Coutinho and missing out on their top targets so far is baffling.


----------



## Burner Account

Suiteness said:


> If the player wants to leave and the other team is willing to pony up the money to trigger the release clause, there's not much the owners can do about the situation.




He doesn't have a release clause.


----------



## Live in the Now

phisherman said:


> 'Member when Liverpool fans thought losing Sterling was fine because Ibe is better?
> 
> I 'member.




That was only the one you quoted.


----------



## Live in the Now

There is also still not a single English source reporting any of this stuff directly. Only unreliable upon unreliable. 

Coutinho was also at training getting treatment for his back.



> Liverpool remain adamant that Philippe Coutinho will not be sold and insist Barcelona are wasting their time travelling to England to try to secure a deal for the Brazil forward.
> 
> A delegation of Barcelona directors comprising Oscar Grau, Raul Sanllehi and Javier Bordas were reported to have arrived in England on Tuesday morning as the club step up their efforts to sign Coutinho.
> 
> Liverpool rejected a Â£72 million offer from Barcelona for Coutinho more than a fortnight ago, but while there has since been further contact between the sides, the Merseyside club are adamant the 25-year-old will remain at Anfield.
> 
> But while the Catalan club hope to make in-roads with their pursuit before facing Real Madrid in the Spanish Super Cup on Sunday in the belief that Coutinho wants to join them, Liverpool are unaware of any plans for talks over the player and will not welcome any more approaches.




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...wasting-time-philippe-coutinho-say-liverpool/


----------



## YNWA14

phisherman said:


> Except Arsenal and other teams have made signings to improve their team. And how can you guess that they will be healthier? Injuries happen and Klopp's style of play is physically taxing on players.
> 
> The transfer window isn't over yet but for you to be so confident that Liverpool will finish top 4 when they're about to lose Coutinho and missing out on their top targets so far is baffling.




Not every team needs to be improved from the outside; some just need time to develop, play together, and be healthy. Also Salah, Solanke and Robertson have all looked very good in pre-season and were signed this window. What has Chelsea/Arsenal/Tottenham done that's so much better than those signings?

They may or may not lose Coutinho, and the window is still open. Most places believe Liverpool should still get van Dijk, and it's very likely they'll buy a replacement for Coutinho should he go. I'm confident because I believe in the team, the manager, and the players from what they've shown last season and into this pre-season. They weren't a team that needed to add a lot to step up a level. A defender, a forward and maybe a midfielder. Coutinho moving back provided the midfielder, Salah/Solanke were forward additions and we added Robertson (though they still need a CB, which is what I said before).


----------



## phisherman

Curtinho said:


> Not every team needs to be improved from the outside; some just need time to develop, play together, and be healthy. Also Salah, Solanke and Robertson have all looked very good in pre-season and were signed this window. What has Chelsea/*Arsenal*/Tottenham done that's so much better than those signings?
> 
> They may or may not lose Coutinho, and the window is still open. Most places believe Liverpool should still get van Dijk, and it's very likely they'll buy a replacement for Coutinho should he go. I'm confident because I believe in the team, the manager, and the players from what they've shown last season and into this pre-season. They weren't a team that needed to add a lot to step up a level. A defender, a forward and maybe a midfielder. Coutinho moving back provided the midfielder, Salah/Solanke were forward additions and we added Robertson (though they still need a CB, which is what I said before).




Oh I don't know...maybe signing a consistent 20 goal scorer from Ligue 1 and a left back that was named on the Bundesliga team of the year.

But I guess to you Solanke>Lacazette and Robertson>Kolasinac.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

jniklast said:


> Kicker saying Dortmund would be willing to let Dembele go for 120M




If that's the price we better do it ASAP


----------



## Chimaera

I mean, I've does have more physical tools. His upside at a point was similar. There are articles from non crack pot journalists to support that. https://www.google.com/amp/www.manc.../man-city-liverpool-sterling-ibe-11618384.amp 

Jaime Redknapp and Mark Lawrenson have forgotten more about football than you ever knew.

That one is from ten seconds of googling. 

Things play out. The amount of players who are the Welsh Messi or next Ronaldo is what the media gets their hits on. Get over yourself.


----------



## Cassano

Chimaera said:


> I mean, I've does have more physical tools. His upside at a point was similar. There are articles from non crack pot journalists to support that. https://www.google.com/amp/www.manc.../man-city-liverpool-sterling-ibe-11618384.amp
> 
> Jaime Redknapp and Mark Lawrenson have forgotten more about football than you ever knew.




Yes, both Ex-Liverpool players said that. Just like ex-Liverpool player Steven Gerrard said Joe Cole can do anything better than Messi.


----------



## YNWA14

phisherman said:


> Oh I don't know...maybe signing a consistent 20 goal scorer from Ligue 1 and a left back that was named on the Bundesliga team of the year.
> 
> But I guess to you Solanke>Lacazette and Robertson>Kolasinac.




Lacazette provided 27 goals and 5 assists from open play last season, and Salah provided 19 goals and 15 assists from open play last season. Is that a convenient exclusion from your comparison? Solanke was to provide depth and huge upside, which he does, and Kolasinac is replacing Monreal who was underrated and quite good while Robertson is replacing a makeshift leftback who was serviceable at the position (which also allows us to have more depth in midfield/wing with Milner's versatility and his being better suited to those areas). Salah also being there allows Liverpool to upgrade their midfield by moving Coutinho back (or whoever his replacement would be if this Barcelona thing actually does happen) improving our team there as well.

But if you think Arsenal has improved leaps and bounds over what others teams have done all the power to you.



DrRecchi said:


> Yes, both Ex-Liverpool players said that. Just like ex-Liverpool player Steven Gerrard said Joe Cole can do anything better than Messi.




Talented players flame out all the time. The point is that from coaches/managers to ex-players to other fans have all seen the talent that Ibe has and have lauded him for it. Maybe he doesn't have the brain or mentality to put it all together but at similar ages at times Ibe looked the brighter prospect. He's still very young to be written off also. The list of extremely talented players that never put it together is long and storied.


----------



## phisherman

Curtinho said:


> Lacazette provided 27 goals and 5 assists from open play last season, and Salah provided 19 goals and 15 assists from open play last season. Is that a convenient exclusion from your comparison? Solanke was to provide depth and huge upside, which he does, and Kolasinac is replacing Monreal who was underrated and quite good while Robertson is replacing a makeshift leftback who was serviceable at the position (which also allows us to have more depth in midfield/wing with Milner's versatility and his being better suited to those areas). Salah also being there allows Liverpool to upgrade their midfield by moving Coutinho back (or whoever his replacement would be if this Barcelona thing actually does happen) improving our team there as well.
> 
> But if you think Arsenal has improved leaps and bounds over what others teams have done all the power to you.




Salah is a wing forward while Lacazette is a pure striker. Also Serie A has a higher goals per game ratio (2.9) vs Ligue 1 (2.61) so you will find Serie A players will have more offensive stats compared to Ligue 1.


----------



## YNWA14

phisherman said:


> Salah is a wing forward while Lacazette is a pure striker. Also Serie A has a higher goals per game ratio (2.9) vs Ligue 1 (2.61) so you will find Serie A players will have more offensive stats compared to Ligue 1.




Right but Liverpool didn't need to upgrade at striker. They have Firmino who is invaluable to the team and the way Klopp plays. They put a lot of their reliance on scoring to the wings and midfield (which Firmino facilitates). So I don't know why you're bringing up Solanke in comparison to Lacazette when he's not a first team player and ignoring Salah, who would be, when you're talking about improvements to their teams and also ignoring their relative level of improvement to the team or how it allows the team to function with Robertson/Coutinho/Milner vs. Kolasinac/Monreal etc.


----------



## phisherman

Curtinho said:


> Right but Liverpool didn't need to upgrade at striker. They have Firmino who is invaluable to the team and the way Klopp plays. They put a lot of their reliance on scoring to the wings and midfield (which Firmino facilitates). So I don't know why you're bringing up Solanke in comparison to Lacazette when he's not a first team player and ignoring Salah, who would be, when you're talking about improvements to their teams and* also ignoring their relative level of improvement* to the team or how it allows the team to function with Robertson/Coutinho/Milner vs. Kolasinac/Monreal etc.




Except you're doing the same thing. You're assuming that Arsenal hasn't improved at all and is not even close to Liverpool's level which is laughable. 

I mean someone like Edo posts nonsense but it's clear he's trolling. But you actually BELIEVE IT!


----------



## YNWA14

phisherman said:


> Except you're doing the same thing. You're assuming that Arsenal hasn't improved at all and is not even close to Liverpool's level which is laughable.
> 
> I mean someone like Edo posts nonsense but it's clear he's trolling. But you actually BELIEVE IT!




When did I say anything negative about Arsenal in reference to this season? Where did I say they didn't improve?


----------



## Yoshidas Island

Ok the topic of transfers... Lemina to Southampton is finalized. 
17â‚¬M + 3â‚¬M Add ons


----------



## Cassano

Curtinho said:


> Talented players flame out all the time. The point is that from coaches/managers to ex-players to other fans have all seen the talent that Ibe has and have lauded him for it. Maybe he doesn't have the brain or mentality to put it all together but at similar ages at times Ibe looked the brighter prospect. He's still very young to be written off also. The list of extremely talented players that never put it together is long and storied.




I recall only seing Ibe > Sterling from Liverpool supporters. And this was probably because of the sourgrapes when he left for City.


----------



## YNWA14

DrRecchi said:


> I recall only seing Ibe > Sterling from Liverpool supporters. And this was probably because of the sourgrapes when he left for City.




Well how many people here watch youth English football, and specifically the Liverpool youth team? Mostly Liverpool supporters would be the people that would have watched them with a frame of reference. The situations were always going to be different in terms of actual exposure to a larger group of people and with Ibe not taking the next step it's easy to look back in hindsight and call it lunacy, but again you could say that about so many players that didn't end up making it at the top level because they stagnated or just didn't have the right mentality. Some still go on to be successful players (van der Vaart, ben Arfa, Quaresma as recent examples) but such is youth...they're hard to predict.


----------



## Cassano

Curtinho said:


> Well how many people here watch youth English football, and specifically the Liverpool youth team? Mostly Liverpool supporters would be the people that would have watched them with a frame of reference. The situations were always going to be different in terms of actual exposure to a larger group of people and with Ibe not taking the next step it's easy to look back in hindsight and call it lunacy, but again you could say that about so many players that didn't end up making it at the top level because they stagnated or just didn't have the right mentality. Some still go on to be successful players (van der Vaart, ben Arfa, Quaresma as recent examples) but such is youth...they're hard to predict.




TBH I think it was revisionist history because Sterlin was labelled a greedy ******* for leaving for City at the time. He had way more appearances at the same age and had some amazing games at a young age in the PL. Then suddenly, he went from next CR7 to next Scott Sinclair overnight.


----------



## Chimaera

There's a big difference between potential and actual performance. One could look to the amount of academy starlets that get paraded around the Emirates alone and fill a massive roster. 

I recall the Sterling move, and I did feel Ibe could improve and maybe take some of the sting of the loss. But Sterling had already shown he could do more playing week in and week out, and it would have been foolish to think it was a sure thing.


----------



## YNWA14

My frame of mind was pretty simple. I was annoyed with how Sterling left, but he had also shown in that last season with Liverpool that he wasn't taking a step forward and there were some big red flags that he wouldn't be able to (and he didn't react very well to being the guy that Liverpool were relying on to 'carry' a lot of our offence). He was already a fine player, but the potential was certainly (and still is) there for Ibe to become a better one or as good. The thing about Sterling is that he is still young too so if he can figure it out in the final third certainly he can really make us miss him even more. I don't think he's really progressed beyond what he showed at 18 though at City, which is a fine player but nothing to lose sleep over. 

Ibe is 21 now and I think this could be the make or break season for him; all reports are that he's looked very good in preseason so we'll see if he carries it over.

They're both still very young and there's a lot that can happen between now and 5 years from now. Ultimately Liverpool replaced them both well so I'm not losing sleep over it.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Live in the Now said:


> There is also still not a single English source reporting any of this stuff directly. Only unreliable upon unreliable.




ESPN just reported on Sportscenter as a done deal....but who knows?


----------



## Cassano

Chimaera said:


> There's a big difference between potential and actual performance. One could look to the amount of academy starlets that get paraded around the Emirates alone and fill a massive roster.









Don't remind me.


----------



## Live in the Now

spintheblackcircle said:


> ESPN just reported on Sportscenter as a done deal....but who knows?



ESPN is also unreliable when it comes to football. Ibrahimovic to LA being a great example. Or Mkhitaryan to Liverpool. They have no idea.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Isak posted and bid his farewell to Dembele on Instagram, and then promptly deleted the post.


----------



## Live in the Now

DrRecchi said:


> TBH I think it was revisionist history because Sterlin was labelled a greedy ******* for leaving for City at the time. He had way more appearances at the same age and had some amazing games at a young age in the PL. Then suddenly, he went from next CR7 to next Scott Sinclair overnight.




That is the way I remember it too. Also, how anyone could watch Ibe and Sterling at youth level and think they were comparable, I have no idea. I did think Ibe would make it at Liverpool though. The only thing Ibe did better than Sterling was shoot from distance.


----------



## YNWA14

That's not the only thing he does better, and Ibe was an absolute monster at youth level, and was very bright for Liverpool in cameos before everything went south. That said it's not a discussion for here anymore.

I think Dembele is more likely to go than Coutinho but if they got both that wouldn't be a bad return for Neymar.


----------



## Live in the Now

Coutinho's just not going to rage out. That's the only thing that can push his transfer through, and I don't see it.

He'll leave next summer though.


----------



## Deficient Mode

jniklast said:


> Kicker saying Dortmund would be willing to let Dembele go for 120M




lol. As usual, the talk about "internal deadlines" and "not this summer" is just bluster. Letting him go AFTER ONE YEAR. ahahaha.

Better hold onto Mor.


----------



## Cassano

Deficient Mode said:


> lol. As usual, the talk about "internal deadlines" and "not this summer" is just bluster. Letting him go AFTER ONE YEAR. ahahaha.
> 
> Better hold onto Mor.




True but they made a **** load of money off of him. Nothing like the backstabbers Hummels and Lewandowski.


----------



## maclean

More and more sources saying Coutinho's a done deal. 81.6m GBP base fee plus bonuses that bring it to 108.8m


----------



## Deficient Mode

DrRecchi said:


> True but they made a **** load of money off of him. Nothing like the backstabbers Hummels and Lewandowski.




They'd make a **** load of money off of him next summer too. After the WC and Barca and Real will surely be bidding to outdo each other with Mbappe/Dembele as they did with Neymar/Bale.


----------



## phisherman

Deficient Mode said:


> lol. As usual, the talk about "internal deadlines" and "not this summer" is just bluster. Letting him go AFTER ONE YEAR. ahahaha.
> 
> Better hold onto Mor.




I'm actually worried that this might give Dortmund a leg up on Sancho as it will open a spot for him.

I'm just hoping it's true that Sancho really wants to return to London and being able to play with his best friend is enough to convince him to sign with Arsenal.


----------



## Cassano

Deficient Mode said:


> They'd make a **** load of money off of him next summer too. After the WC and Barca and Real will surely be bidding to outdo each other with Mbappe/Dembele as they did with Neymar/Bale.




Fair point. 



phisherman said:


> I'm actually worried that this might give Dortmund a leg up on Sancho as it will open a spot for him.
> 
> I'm just hoping it's true that Sancho really wants to return to London and being able to play with his best friend is enough to convince him to sign with Arsenal.




TBH I'd be devastated if it doesn't happen. All of his IG followers are basically Arsenal players. His best friend has a bright future at Arsenal, etc...

But he'll develop better away from England IMO.


----------



## Deficient Mode

phisherman said:


> I'm actually worried that this might give Dortmund a leg up on Sancho as it will open a spot for him.
> 
> I'm just hoping it's true that Sancho really wants to return to London and being able to play with his best friend is enough to convince him to sign with Arsenal.




tbh Dortmund already had too many forwards with Dembele on the roster. I don't even care about signing a highly touted talent from abroad as the putative Dembele replacement if they're also signalling to that talent that he can leave after one year if a big enough offer comes in.


----------



## Live in the Now

maclean said:


> More and more sources saying Coutinho's a done deal. 81.6m GBP base fee plus bonuses that bring it to 108.8m




Still none reliable and still no word whatsoever from the other club that they're willing to sell. It's like Verratti all over again.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Live in the Now said:


> Still none reliable and still no word whatsoever from the other club that they're willing to sell. It's like Verratti all over again.




This time most Barca fans will be happy with that outcome.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

phisherman said:


> I'm actually worried that this might give Dortmund a leg up on Sancho as it will open a spot for him.
> 
> I'm just hoping it's true that Sancho really wants to return to London and being able to play with his best friend is enough to convince him to sign with Arsenal.




I saw a report the other day that if Dembele leaves, Sancho joins Dortmund.


----------



## phisherman

maclean said:


> More and more sources saying Coutinho's a done deal. 81.6m GBP base fee plus bonuses that bring it to 108.8m




Besides ESPN which other sources are reporting?

I've seen a couple of Twitter accounts, that have actually called some transfers correctly so far, reporting talks but not confirmed.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Who are we kidding? They both joining Barcelona.


----------



## YNWA14

If it's Arsenal or Dortmund I hope that Sancho goes to Dortmund. Would much rather see him develop there and then get sold to an elite club. Legitimate star in the making; I rate him as highly as I do Woodburn.


----------



## Live in the Now

Duchene2MacKinnon said:


> This time most Barca fans will be happy with that outcome.




Its been a week that this was supposedly a done deal. A week where Liverpool did not buy a single player, where the player did not comment on leaving, and one where he reported to training every single day they had it. There were reports from one side that he didn't go to training on a day when nobody trained. One today that said he was no longer going to train while he was at the facility.

There is not even a single rumor of a replacement from the Liverpool side of the equation. Every reporter on that side says Liverpool will not take offers. It would also be a lot worse for the club's supporter relations to suddenly change their mind after saying over and over again the player won't be sold. 

It is clear what is going on here. There are some reporters trying to make their credibility off this saga.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

If Bale joins Man United, is Martial available? I think I might've asked this already though.


----------



## Live in the Now

Also, if Leipzig would sell Keita to Liverpool, Coutinho would have been sold by now. IMO anyway.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

If Dembele goes, at a minimum I want Sancho to join and signing someone like Havertz or Kluivert. I'd also wait to see if Martial can come, if Bale joins United, assuming Mbappe joins Real. And an Asensio loan is another idea I'd explore. 

But thats just for the attack. Need a new RB. You get all that money, no excuses not to sign a starting RB. I'd also want a back up keeper and back up DM.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> If Dembele goes, at a minimum I want Sancho to join and signing someone like Havertz or Kluivert. I'd also wait to see if Martial can come, if Bale joins United, assuming Mbappe joins Real. And an Ansesio loan is another idea I'd explore.
> 
> But thats just for the attack. Need a new RB. You get all that money, no excuses not to sign a starting RB. I'd also want a back up keeper and back up DM.




lol it's too late for all that. And there are still basically 9 forwards for 4 spots even if Dembele is gone. Unless they cut the dreck like SchÃ¼rrle and Rode from the roster, they can't add a bunch more guys. I agree that a RB, DM, and keeper would be nice, but Watzke and co don't see it that way.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Barca won't be signing Inigo Martinez, Marlon will be the 4th choice CB.


----------



## Live in the Now

That deal was also 100% done according to the people who are running with the Coutinho story. Even Sport and Marca said that Barcelona paid his release clause.

Buyer beware.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Deficient Mode said:


> lol it's too late for all that. And there are still basically 9 forwards for 4 spots even if Dembele is gone. Unless they cut the dreck like SchÃ¼rrle and Rode from the roster, they can't add a bunch more guys. I agree that a RB, DM, and keeper would be nice, but Watzke and co don't see it that way.




I think they'll have to do something, if they sell Dembele. If you sell one, you gotta at least make the effort to show you are willing to replace that player with the next up and comer. 

Its always claimed that its too late in the window to make any signings, once it gets to August. These situations aren't ideal, but teams don't close early because its August. They'll accept the offer, if it meets their price. We'll bring in someone, if Dembele goes.


----------



## Vasilevskiy

TheLeastOfTheBunch said:


> Barca won't be signing Inigo Martinez, Marlon will be the 4th choice CB.




...And who's the 3rd choice? Masche? Vermaelen?

We're ****ed.

I still think they're signing IÃƒÂ±igo Martinez. There was too much smoke in spanish media


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> I think they'll have to do something, if they sell Dembele. If you sell one, you gotta at least make the effort to show you are willing to replace that player with the next up and comer.
> 
> Its always claimed that its too late in the window to make any signings, once it gets to August. These situations aren't ideal, but teams don't close early because its August. They'll accept the offer, if it meets their price. We'll bring in someone, if Dembele goes.




Maybe someone. I don't see them buying a lot of players. The potential for steals when other clubs know you are sitting on 120M is gone unless the player has a release clause, and Watzke would rather sit on the money than pay an inflated price 10 times out of 10.


----------



## Jeffrey

Live in the Now said:


> Its been a week that this was supposedly a done deal. A week where Liverpool did not buy a single player, where the player did not comment on leaving, and one where he reported to training every single day they had it. There were reports from one side that he didn't go to training on a day when nobody trained. One today that said he was no longer going to train while he was at the facility.
> 
> There is not even a single rumor of a replacement from the Liverpool side of the equation. Every reporter on that side says Liverpool will not take offers. It would also be a lot worse for the club's supporter relations to suddenly change their mind after saying over and over again the player won't be sold.
> 
> It is clear what is going on here. There are some reporters trying to make their credibility off this saga.



I still have doubt until FSG pull another Suarez and issue a statement that Coutinho would not be sold under any circonstance.

The owners/DoF have been handling this terribly wrong.


----------



## Bon Esprit

According to sport-bild and other sources Emre Mor will leave BvB for Inter..

link added:
http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/...el_mor-vor-dem-absprung-zu-inter-mailand.html

Probably on loan with a buying option.


----------



## Live in the Now

The circumstances in which Coutinho would be sold this summer (130-150 million pounds) are not coming. At least I don't think anyone's dumb enough to offer that.


----------



## maclean

Live in the Now said:


> Its been a week that this was supposedly a done deal. A week where Liverpool did not buy a single player, where the player did not comment on leaving, and one where he reported to training every single day they had it. There were reports from one side that he didn't go to training on a day when nobody trained. One today that said he was no longer going to train while he was at the facility.
> 
> There is not even a single rumor of a replacement from the Liverpool side of the equation. Every reporter on that side says Liverpool will not take offers. It would also be a lot worse for the club's supporter relations to suddenly change their mind after saying over and over again the player won't be sold.
> 
> It is clear what is going on here. There are some reporters trying to make their credibility off this saga.




I'm not saying you're wrong, but the circumstances around Neymar weren't dissimilar


----------



## Live in the Now

Neymar had a clause though. They didn't need Barcelona's approval to do anything.


----------



## Jeffrey

maclean said:


> I'm not saying you're wrong, but the circumstances around Neymar weren't dissimilar



?
Without the release clause there is no chance Neymar is a PSG player today.


----------



## JoemAvs

Yeah Watzke will fold like a lawn chair unfortunately.

I am a Bayern supporter but it is a damn shame that Dembele will be leaving the BL after just one season when he still has 4 years left, is on a very cheap contract and will probably easily get you the same amount of money 11 months from now...

Anything below 130 M would be a cruel joke given the fact that Rennes probably will get around 15-20 % of the fee regardless...
I get that Dortmund is a selling club but you don't sell the guy you really struck gold with after just one season 3 weeks before the end of the transfer window.

Just horrible management. He will probably buy another Schurrle type player for 50 M to replace him 2 weeks from now...

Damn shame that Watzke doesn't have the stones to just say no. Dembele would easily get 120 M+ next season if not more (after the world cup). He is also on a really cheap contract.

He simply should not be for sale right now at all. Doesn't matter if he really wants to go. Tell him it is too late and that he can leave next season if the money is right.

This really upsets me. I want the BL to grow and BVB finally be able to challenge Bayern long term. But that will never happen if they make moves like this.

De Bruyne 2.0....


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Bon Esprit said:


> According to sport-bild and other sources Emre Mor will leave BvB for Inter..
> 
> link added:
> http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/...el_mor-vor-dem-absprung-zu-inter-mailand.html
> 
> Probably on loan with a buying option.




Well if that happens and Dembele leaves as well, there's almost no choice. Can't go into the season with Schurrle as the 3rd winger. 

I don't know why they are so quick to sell Mor, if Dembele leaves. I'd keep him around, I think he could be a big help to us this season. I just don't think you can really have Dembele and Mor on the same pitch, there's only one ball. Dembele kind of ruined Mor's chance, but if Dembele leaves, it could open up a chance for Mor.


----------



## Deficient Mode

JoemAvs said:


> Yeah Watzke will fold like a lawn chair unfortunately.
> 
> I am a Bayern supporter but it is a damn shame that Dembele will be leaving the BL after just one season when he still has 4 years left, is on a very cheap contract and will probably easily get you the same amount of money 11 months from now...
> 
> Anything below 130 M would be a cruel joke given the fact that Rennes probably will get around 15-20 % of the fee regardless...
> I get that Dortmund is a selling club but you don't sell the guy you really struck gold with after just one season 3 weeks before the end of the transfer window.
> 
> Just horrible management. He will probably buy another Schurrle type player for 50 M to replace him 2 weeks from now...
> 
> Damn shame that Watzke doesn't have the stones to just say no. Dembele would easily get 120 M+ next season if not more (after the world cup). He is also on a really cheap contract.
> 
> He simply should not be for sale right now at all. Doesn't matter if he really wants to go. Tell him it is too late and that he can leave next season if the money is right.
> 
> This really upsets me. I want the BL to grow and BVB finally be able to challenge Bayern long term. But that will never happen if they make moves like this.
> 
> De Bruyne 2.0....




Yeah Rennes get 20%. 

Their chances of winning anything apart from the Pokal hinged on getting a year or two of Dembele's best. Instead they'll just move on to the next child to be resold. Players like Bellarabi and SchÃ¼rrle were Tuchel's targets. Watzke would rather profit off of a kid like Sancho.


----------



## Duchene2MacKinnon

Vasilevskiy said:


> ...And who's the 3rd choice? Masche? Vermaelen?
> 
> We're ****ed.
> 
> I still think they're signing IÃƒÂ±igo Martinez. There was too much smoke in spanish media




Ok go get Laporte!


----------



## Deficient Mode

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Well if that happens and Dembele leaves as well, there's almost no choice. Can't go into the season with Schurrle as the 3rd winger.
> 
> I don't know why they are so quick to sell Mor, if Dembele leaves. I'd keep him around, I think he could be a big help to us this season. I just don't think you can really have Dembele and Mor on the same pitch, there's only one ball. Dembele kind of ruined Mor's chance, but if Dembele leaves, it could open up a chance for Mor.




SchÃ¼rrle would be the second winger with Pulisic. Phillipp isn't a true winger and Reus is injured.


----------



## Luigi Habs

If Barca sign both Dembele and Coutinho, then swapping Neymar for those 2 players would be a pretty good trade for them. Coutinho can play CM and LW, and Dembele as well. 

I hope Valverde gives Denis Suarez more chance this season. 

Btw Galatasaray said they're trying to sign Arda Turan.


----------



## JoemAvs

Deficient Mode said:


> Yeah Rennes get 20%.
> 
> Their chances of winning anything apart from the Pokal hinged on getting a year or two of Dembele's best. Instead they'll just move on to the next child to be resold. Players like Bellarabi and SchÃ¼rrle were Tuchel's targets. Watzke would rather profit off of a kid like Sancho.




Well they just paid over 20 M for freaking Maximilian Philipp so I am not quite on board with you when it comes to Watzke and Zorc being good in the transfer market.

They are amazing when it comes to discovering young talent and buying that for cheap.

But whenever they have money to spend, it usually does not work out all too well. Only exception was maybe Mikhi but he basically also had only 1 or 1.5 good years before he was sold anyways and the net "profit" of the transaction was less than 15 million in the end. Never understood why they did not buy Eriksen back then...

I really don't rate them when it comes to having to spend money. They usually fail at that. Which is no surprise honestly. Because established players of the quality that Dortmund needs won't sign for the wages or even in general with Dortmund. So they end up with the Schuerrles or Immobiles of this world for way too much money...


They have to always go for the Dembeles of this world IMO and that is clearly the right move. But you freaking don't sell those guys after one season with 4 years left on their contracts in the mid of August...

If they get 120 M for Dembele they should just offer 100 M to Leverkusen for Tah, Henrichs and Brandt... (basically CB and RB is IMO the positions that Dortmund somehow always fail to upgrade when it is really necessary to do so looking at their current defense+ Dembele replacement). Too bad that Voeller is smarter than Watzke and would decline that in an instant..

Probably go for something dumb like Mahrez for 50-60 M or a similar middle aged guy that won't be worth it at all and command significantly higher wages than Dembele...


----------



## Bon Esprit

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Well if that happens and Dembele leaves as well, there's almost no choice. Can't go into the season with Schurrle as the 3rd winger.
> 
> I don't know why they are so quick to sell Mor, if Dembele leaves. I'd keep him around, I think he could be a big help to us this season. I just don't think you can really have Dembele and Mor on the same pitch, there's only one ball. Dembele kind of ruined Mor's chance, but if Dembele leaves, it could open up a chance for Mor.




There were even reports Hannover 96 would be in play. I guess if that's true H96 couldn't afford the wages.

I don't understand it either from Dortmund's pov.


----------



## Epictetus

If they do sell Coutinho, not sure about any direct replacements, as others have mentioned. But moving Firmino to the 10, and signing a top-tier striker is anther alternative. Torres. Suarez. Sturridge. There's been some success there, and of course misses also. I have no idea who that would be exactly, but it seems there are more strikers to choose from.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Vasilevskiy said:


> ...And who's the 3rd choice? Masche? Vermaelen?
> 
> We're ****ed.
> 
> I still think they're signing IÃƒÂ±igo Martinez. There was too much smoke in spanish media




Someone mentioned it was because we offered 25 million and Rifinha which doesn't make much sense to me.


----------



## JoemAvs

Epictetus said:


> If they do sell Coutinho, not sure about any direct replacements, as others have mentioned. But moving Firmino to the 10, and signing a top-tier striker is anther alternative. Torres. Suarez. Sturridge. There's been some success there, and of course misses also. I have no idea who that would be exactly, but it seems there are more strikers to choose from.





I really don't think they will sell Coutinho. Would be even worse than Dortmund selling Dembele IMO..

But while I am baffled with Dortmund in the transfer market when they aren't going the cheap talent route (where they are unmatched in Europe probably tbh), Liverpool might be even worse.

Why the hell is Sakho still there?
What is the plan with Sturridge? Why not sell him for 60 M to West Ham or Crystal Palace and buy a freaking quality CB and CM ?

I always had a soft spot for Klopp and therefore Pool is my favorite PL team but Juergen isn't doing all that great of a job in the transfermarket once he gets rebuffed for his primary targets unfortunately....

VVD might still happen but I wonder why we haven't heard about alternatives yet. Lovren again? Really?

Keita probably will have better offers next season regardless when his clause can be activated (hopefully Bayern is in the mix). Waiting for him seems a bit risky to say the least.

And Can, Hendo and Wijnaldum as your CMs? Please...


----------



## Deficient Mode

JoemAvs said:


> Well they just paid over 20 M for freaking Maximilian Philipp so I am not quite on board with you when it comes to Watzke and Zorc being good in the transfer market.
> 
> They are amazing when it comes to discovering young talent and buying that for cheap.
> 
> But whenever they have money to spend, it usually does not work out all too well. Only exception was maybe Mikhi but he basically also had only 1 or 1.5 good years before he was sold anyways and the net "profit" of the transaction was less than 15 million in the end. Never understood why they did not buy Eriksen back then...
> 
> I really don't rate them when it comes to having to spend money. They usually fail at that. Which is no surprise honestly. Because established players of the quality that Dortmund needs won't sign for the wages or even in general with Dortmund. So they end up with the Schuerrles or Immobiles of this world for way too much money...
> 
> 
> They have to always go for the Dembeles of this world IMO and that is clearly the right move. But you freaking don't sell those guys after one season with 4 years left on their contracts in the mid of August...
> 
> If they get 120 M for Dembele they should just offer 100 M to Leverkusen for Tah, Henrichs and Brandt... (basically CB and RB is IMO the positions that Dortmund somehow always fail to upgrade when it is really necessary to do so looking at their current defense+ Dembele replacement). Too bad that Voeller is smarter than Watzke and would decline that in an instant..
> 
> Probably go for something dumb like Mahrez for 50-60 M or a similar middle aged guy that won't be worth it at all and command significantly higher wages than Dembele...




I like the Philipp deal actually. Not a crazy discount like some of the deals they've gotten but I think he'll be a good part of the team. I think you can keep the scouting staff who find these players and get rid of Watzke.

Other than that, I fully agree. At the very least they should try to optimize their roster every other year if they do have to sell off these guys. Give your fans a more competitive team and don't just take their undying support for granted (even if it is). After a year of regrouping from selling Hummels, Mkhi, and GÃ¼ndogan and still performing well, Tuchel should have been rewarded with a strengthened roster on top of Dembele. Instead, both are gone, and we just have another year of struggling to 3rd place in the league.


----------



## Live in the Now

JoemAvs said:


> I really don't think they will sell Coutinho. Would be even worse than Dortmund selling Dembele IMO..
> 
> But while I am baffled with Dortmund in the transfer market when they aren't going the cheap talent route (where they are unmatched in Europe probably tbh), Liverpool might be even worse.
> 
> Why the hell is Sakho still there?
> What is the plan with Sturridge? Why not sell him for 60 M to West Ham or Crystal Palace and buy a freaking quality CB and CM ?




Can't answer the Sakho one, I really have no idea. Sturridge is going to be the backup striker. That's what I want them to do with Sturridge. It is inevitable they will need him in a big game, then he will play and score because that's always what happens. Then he'll get hurt again. I don't think any team would pay more than 25m for somebody so injured, and it's just not worth selling him for that.



> I always had a soft spot for Klopp and therefore Pool is my favorite PL team but Juergen isn't doing all that great of a job in the transfermarket once he gets rebuffed for his primary targets unfortunately....
> 
> VVD might still happen but I wonder why we haven't heard about alternatives yet. Lovren again? Really?
> 
> Keita probably will have better offers next season regardless when his clause can be activated (hopefully Bayern is in the mix). Waiting for him seems a bit risky to say the least.
> 
> And Can, Hendo and Wijnaldum as your CMs? Please...




I don't think it's only Klopp. Liverpool have a bunch of no-marks handling negotiations. And Coutinho is going to play CM this year.


----------



## YNWA14

JoemAvs said:


> And Can, Hendo and Wijnaldum as your CMs? Please...




Oh yes. Those midfielders were absolutely awful in particular against the other top teams in England. No idea why they're still there.


----------



## JoemAvs

Curtinho said:


> Oh yes. Those midfielders were absolutely awful in particular against the other top teams in England. No idea why they're still there.




Meh that is more on Klopp and his playing style usually working best against the top teams. Has always been his strength.

IMO they are in a unique position that Mane, Coutinho, Firminho and now hopefully Salah are exactly the type of players Klopp can transform into a special offense.

But with Can/Hendo/Lovren/Mignolet behind them that unique potential is wasted..

Those guys simply don't have the quality needed to win big things...

Keita would have elevated them in a crazy way. But there is no excuse to just stand pat after getting rebuffed for him. Same for VVD (still don't think the Saints will sell him to Pool after all that happened. Think he will go to Chelsea or City).


@ Live in the Now:

I get that. But IMO Sturridge is wasted on the bench . He probably can get you 50-60M in this market from the right mid-tier PL team and IMO that money should be used to fix the aforementioned holes on the roster.

I really want Pool to win things this season. But with this roster it won't happen unfortunately. I really like Robertson for some weird reason so I am fine with them not getting another LB but CB and CDM desperately needs to be upgraded IMO if they want to find success.

Otherwise I am not even sure they will make top4. The brutal PL schedule+ international football is not exactly great for Klopps philosophy and with that talent disadvantage he has expecially in these positions, I am not sure that they will make it. Which would be a damn shame...


----------



## Jeffrey

I have no doubt in my mind that nobody would pay â‚¬60m on Sturridge.

He has a big salary and he is always injured fee teams would go that route


----------



## hersky77

JoemAvs said:


> Meh that is more on Klopp and his playing style usually working best against the top teams. Has always been his strength.
> 
> IMO they are in a unique position that Mane, Coutinho, Firminho and now hopefully Salah are exactly the type of players Klopp can transform into a special offense.
> 
> But with* Can*/Hendo/Lovren/*Mignolet *behind them that unique potential is wasted..
> 
> Those guys simply don't have the quality needed to win big things...
> 
> Keita would have elevated them in a crazy way. But there is no excuse to just stand pat after getting rebuffed for him. Same for VVD (still don't think the Saints will sell him to Pool after all that happened. Think he will go to Chelsea or City).
> 
> 
> @ Live in the Now:
> 
> I get that. But IMO Sturridge is wasted on the bench . He probably can get you 50-60M in this market from the right mid-tier PL team and IMO that money should be used to fix the aforementioned holes on the roster.
> 
> I really want Pool to win things this season. But with this roster it won't happen unfortunately. I really like Robertson for some weird reason so I am fine with them not getting another LB but CB and CDM desperately needs to be upgraded IMO if they want to find success.
> 
> Otherwise I am not even sure they will make top4. The brutal PL schedule+ international football is not exactly great for Klopps philosophy and with that talent disadvantage he has expecially in these positions, I am not sure that they will make it. Which would be a damn shame...




Huh those two were instrumental in Liverpool getting back into Europe. Not exactly sure why you mention them.


----------



## JoemAvs

hersky77 said:


> Huh those two were instrumental in Liverpool getting back into Europe. Not exactly sure why you mention them.




Cause they clearly are not good enough for a team that wants to win the PL or go far in the CL...

I know Can since he was 15 or so...

The PL suits his game and he is a very good player but if you want to win things, he is not good enough. There is a reason why Bayern let him go without much ressistance back then. He is IMO in that sense similar to a guy like Mustafi. I always cringe when these guys suit up for our NT...

Even worse for Mignolet who just might be the worst keeper of any top20 team in Europe (and its not even all that close)...


----------



## cgf

Deficient Mode said:


> I like the Philipp deal actually. Not a crazy discount like some of the deals they've gotten but I think he'll be a good part of the team. I think you can keep the scouting staff who find these players and get rid of Watzke.
> 
> Other than that, I fully agree. At the very least they should try to optimize their roster every other year if they do have to sell off these guys. Give your fans a more competitive team and don't just take their undying support for granted (even if it is). After a year of regrouping from selling Hummels, Mkhi, and GÃƒÂ¼ndogan and still performing well, Tuchel should have been rewarded with a strengthened roster on top of Dembele. Instead, both are gone, and we just have another year of struggling to 3rd place in the league.




Philipp was money well spent with how injury prone Reus is and the experience gap between Auba & Isak. He's like a rich man's Schurrle.


----------



## Burner Account

I believe Sakho is still at Liverpool because nobody will meet Liverpool's valuation of the player. And when you would rather play Ragnar Klavan or even Lucas Leiva than play this player, it is time to lower your valuation. Just IMO.


----------



## Chimaera

Might have to do with CP being second on the schedule and not wanting to play him.


----------



## Burner Account

Chimaera said:


> Might have to do with CP being second on the schedule and not wanting to play him.




The Bentekkers and Sakho show. It was bad enough with Sakho on the sideline for CP last year.


----------



## jniklast

Bon Esprit said:


> There were even reports Hannover 96 would be in play. I guess if that's true H96 couldn't afford the wages.
> 
> I don't understand it either from Dortmund's pov.




Mor has not shown the attitude required to reach is potential apparently and frankly he has not progressed one bit. I don't think he will ever fulfill the potential. Immensely talented, incredible skill, but just not smart enough to ever make a real impact on the highest level imo.


----------



## YNWA14

JoemAvs said:


> Cause they clearly are not good enough for a team that wants to win the PL or go far in the CL...
> 
> I know Can since he was 15 or so...
> 
> The PL suits his game and he is a very good player but if you want to win things, he is not good enough. There is a reason why Bayern let him go without much ressistance back then. He is IMO in that sense similar to a guy like Mustafi. I always cringe when these guys suit up for our NT...
> 
> Even worse for Mignolet who just might be the worst keeper of any top20 team in Europe (and its not even all that close)...




Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lovren and Mignolet are all more than good enough, and still improving. Can I'm still on the fence about but we'll see as time goes on. I don't think he's a smart enough player to be someone who helps Liverpool push to the title or win trophies but I think he can be a good depth piece.


----------



## Evilo

kyle evs48 said:


> I believe Sakho is still at Liverpool because nobody will meet Liverpool's valuation of the player. And when you would rather play Ragnar Klavan or even Lucas Leiva than play this player, it is time to lower your valuation. Just IMO.




Pretty much. They're asking for more than 30M for a player they deemed as inferior to anything they had. 
Everyone knows they want to get rid of him so obviously, they'll lowball them til they get him for dirty cheap.


----------



## Cassano

Evilo said:


> Pretty much. They're asking for more than 30M for a player they deemed as inferior to anything they had.
> Everyone knows they want to get rid of him so obviously, they'll lowball them til they get him for dirty cheap.




Everyone knew Liverpool wanted to get of Benteke and they still broke even.


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## Ceremony

DrRecchi said:


> Everyone knew Liverpool wanted to get of Benteke and they still broke even.




Bentekkers is good, Sakho isn't


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## Deficient Mode

Ceremony said:


> Bentekkers is good, Sakho isn't




You just like him because of his nickname


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## John Pedro

Luan, the best player in Brazil right now (also the best player in the Olympics out-playing Gabigol and Jesus), close to a move to Spartak Moscou for 20m euros. Really strange that no team from the big markets went after him, he's money. All arounder foward (can also play as an attacking midfielder) similar style to Firmino but has a better shot and is a really good FK taker.

Could also mean that Promes will move in the next window.


----------



## JoemAvs

Curtinho said:


> Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lovren and Mignolet are all more than good enough, and still improving. Can I'm still on the fence about but we'll see as time goes on. I don't think he's a smart enough player to be someone who helps Liverpool push to the title or win trophies but I think he can be a good depth piece.




Yeah I really disagree with that....

If Liverpool wants to be a longterm top4 team they need to replace these guys in their first 11.

These guys are not good enough for a top level team.


----------



## DatsyukOwns

Gary Jacob is saying Southampton are adamant that Van Dijk will not be sold this summer and are apperantly prepared to leave him out of the squad during the season.


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## Duchene2MacKinnon

L.Martinez close to joining Atleti. Would stay at Racing club for a year tho.


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## MrFunnyWobbl

BVB should ask for 1.5B euros for Dembele. Make it clear he is not for the selling


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## Edo

Chimaera said:


> It's stupid money, but selling him (if it happens) is dumb. They probably finish about the same in the table (no VVD and they're not getting near top 4) but it's hard to lose your most talented player a few days before the first match and not feel like it's a tragedy. There will be riots.




This is why I get upset at Liverpool fans. Again, you lose your best player, and again, you think the team will be a top club. Like, get out of here.


----------



## Live in the Now

Coutinho isn't Liverpool's best player. Let's get that clear. But because he is from Brazil and plays midfield while scoring and assisting a lot he is of extreme value to any purchasing club.


----------



## Edo

Curtinho said:


> Unlike most when I say things, right or wrong, I own up to them and I also actually provide more than just sour one liners or attacking statements to things other people say. Henderson is a top 5 player in his role, and I still maintain that when he's healthy. Ibe stagnated and Sterling is clearly better, but they're also still very young.
> 
> As far as the point thing is concerned Arsenal had to win 5 games in a row and 7 of their last 8 just to finish 1 point behind Liverpool. Why is it that Liverpool is being looked as some kind of fluke into the top 4 and you're so optimistic about Arsenal or something? That includes a time when both Coutinho, Mane and Matip were injured as well having AFCON issues and Lovren getting injured, Henderson getting injured, and Firmino having injury/legal troubles in the middle of the season when we went on a terrible run of form. If anything Liverpool were unlucky to finish as low as they did considering their injury/fitness/squad depth woes. The team this year will be deeper, and in theory should be healthier as well as just better overall and more developed together.
> 
> But to each their own.




Arsenal's starting XI in game 1 of the 2016-2017 Premier League season against Liverpool. 

Sanchez
Iwobi-Ramsey-Walcott
Coquelin-ElNeny
Bellerin-Chambers-Holding-Monreal

Against a full Liverpool starting XI. Liverpool barely won. Is why Arsenal finished behind you guys. Simple as that.


----------



## Ceremony

Deficient Mode said:


> You just like him because of his nickname




I like him because of how much his existence irritates the Liverpool fans on here.


----------



## Savant

Edo said:


> Arsenal's starting XI in game 1 of the 2016-2017 Premier League season against Liverpool.
> 
> Sanchez
> Iwobi-Ramsey-Walcott
> Coquelin-ElNeny
> Bellerin-Chambers-Holding-Monreal
> 
> Against a full Liverpool starting XI. Liverpool barely won. Is why Arsenal finished behind you guys. Simple as that.




Losing the game at Anfield didn't help you lot either.



Edo said:


> This is why I get upset at Liverpool fans. Again, you lose your best player, and again, you think the team will be a top club. Like, get out of here.





If the season started today, with the rosters as they are, Liverpool will not finish in the Top 4.


----------



## Deficient Mode

Ceremony said:


> I like him because of how much his existence irritates the Liverpool fans on here.




Do you also like Manchester United and its players then


----------



## Savant

DatsyukOwns said:


> Gary Jacob is saying Southampton are adamant that Van Dijk will not be sold this summer and are apperantly prepared to leave him out of the squad during the season.




Not really sure how that is ethical or legal, but it just means no one besides LFC will pay their price tag, and they are being spiteful.


----------



## Savant

DrRecchi said:


> Everyone knew Liverpool wanted to get of Benteke and they still broke even.




Liverpool is exponentially better at selling players than they are at buying players.

Their front office is a joke.


----------



## phisherman

Savant said:


> Not really sure how that is ethical or legal, but it just means no one besides LFC will pay their price tag, and they are being spiteful.




Are you serious? Liverpool is doing something similar with Sakho.


----------



## Chimaera

Edo said:


> This is why I get upset at Liverpool fans. Again, you lose your best player, and again, you think the team will be a top club. Like, get out of here.




Do you even read anything people post? (I would say no). 


To spell it out for you, even with him, I think Liverpool will struggle to be in the top 5. It's not impossible, but I don't expect that their defense is good enough. They need a center back and probably a midfield who can attack without losing Coutinho. Adding VVD, staying healthy (they're already not) and they have a shot. But it's a crap shoot. 

They're going to score goals and Klopp is a better manager in getting something out of players deemed mediocre than most around him, but they're a player or two short without taking away one of their better players.


----------



## TheLeastOfTheBunch

Vasilevskiy said:


> ...And who's the 3rd choice? Masche? Vermaelen?
> 
> We're ****ed.
> 
> I still think they're signing IÃƒÂ±igo Martinez. There was too much smoke in spanish media




If this is true and if Athletic's CBs are off the table as well, I would like to see them go after Lemos. But yeah, adding another quality defender is ideal


----------



## Chimaera

Arsenal lost a lot of matches because their squad wasn't good enough and their manager has lost the plot. They had injuries and their defense is mediocre. What's new?


----------



## Savant

Curtinho said:


> Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lovren and Mignolet are all more than good enough, and still improving. Can I'm still on the fence about but we'll see as time goes on. I don't think he's a smart enough player to be someone who helps Liverpool push to the title or win trophies but I think he can be a good depth piece.




Henderson and Lovren cannot stay healthy. This is a problem. Matip was very injury prone last season as well. They are two injuries away from Klavan-Gomez starting at CB. I am not really sure how they are supposed to challenge for anything, if that is their pairing for a prolonged period. The expectations for the team has changed, and they only have themselves to blame if they don't reinforce. 

I think Lovren would be one of the best backup CB options in the league, but he is very shaky as a starter. I am not in love with Matip either. I think he has to prove more this season, (which he has the tools to), CB is a position of weakness.

More importantly the midfield is short. It was short before Lallana went down too. Especially from a creativity standpoint, they are very short handed. They need more. Henderson is underrated here, but he can certainly be upgraded on. I don't think anyone here rates Gini as highly as you. I think he is a very nice player, but he does not deserve to be an automatic starter at this point, and certainly can be upgraded.

Liverpool are caught again with having no Plan B's to their primary targets at key positions. Money is not an excuse either, it is lack of preparedness. Liverpool was ready to make VVD the most expensive transferred center back of all time. They bid around 70m for Keita And they can find anyone else to spend the money on? I refust to believe that VVD and Keita are the only two players on Earth that Klopp thinks would improve the team. Salah was not even first choice himself, luckily he looks good, but deficiencies at CM and CB will doom the team, if they are not taken care of. Mane and Wijnaldum were both backup plans last summer and they turned out alright. Its sickening and they only have themselves to blame.


----------



## Savant

phisherman said:


> Are you serious? Liverpool is doing something similar with Sakho.




Not even close.

Liverpool were prepared to make VVD the most expensively transferred CB of all time, offering a more than fair price. Sakho will be sold as soon as someone pays what Liverpool is asking for. Also Sakho has not submitted a transfer request, and Van Dijk hadn't done anything to lose the faith of the manager the previous season.


----------



## phisherman

Savant said:


> Not even close.
> 
> Liverpool were prepared to make VVD the most expensively transferred CB of all time, offering a more than fair price. Sakho will be sold as soon as someone pays what Liverpool is asking for. Also Sakho has not submitted a transfer request, and Van Dijk hadn't done anything to lose the faith of the manager the previous season.




Both teams are holding on to their player which they have every right to as they are under contract. Questioning Southampton's ethics and legality regarding this is silly.


----------



## Live in the Now

Southampton have done nothing wrong. They will have to sell him though, and they are probably not going to keep him past the deadline. If they keep him until January they'll definitely lose money, and their squad may not be good enough to avoid the bottom of mid-table.

But I believe they will make Liverpool wait until deadline day and make them pay more than the fees mentioned so far. It will get ugly.

Also, this situation as well as the current transfer market is going to lead to shorter contracts or more release clauses.


----------



## Savant

phisherman said:


> Both teams are holding on to their player which they have every right to as they are under contract. Questioning Southampton's ethics and legality regarding this is silly.




No. Southampton accepts the amount that Liverpool is prepared to offer from any other club. They are punishing the player because they don't want to sell to LFC despite the players transfer request and the player being fined by the club. 

Sakho has not taken any such action and his price tag has not been met. Liverpool have also not punished Sakho. It is a completely different situation.


----------



## phisherman

Savant said:


> No. Southampton accepts the amount that Liverpool is prepared to offer from any other club. They are punishing the player because they don't want to sell to LFC despite the players transfer request and the player being fined by the club.
> 
> Sakho has not taken any such action and his price tag has not been met. It is a completely different situation.




But Southampton is doing nothing wrong. If Sakho was acting like an ass like Van Dijk is Liverpool would be treating him the same way. 

They did something similar to Suarez by making him train alone when Liverpool outright rejected Arsenal's bid even though they triggered his release clause.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> Philipp was money well spent with how injury prone Reus is and the experience gap between Auba & Isak. He's like a rich man's Schurrle.




Poor man's Reus.


----------



## Savant

phisherman said:


> But Southampton is doing nothing wrong. If Sakho was acting like an ass like Van Dijk is Liverpool would be treating him the same way.
> 
> They did something similar to Suarez by making him train alone when Liverpool outright rejected Arsenal's bid even though they triggered his release clause.




But they aren't. And Southampton are. 

Suarez' strike was brief, Gerrard talked him out of it even though Arsenal tampered. The rest was history


----------



## Nalens Oga

Savant said:


> No. Southampton accepts the amount that Liverpool is prepared to offer from any other club. They are punishing the player because they don't want to sell to LFC despite the players transfer request and the player being fined by the club.
> 
> Sakho has not taken any such action and his price tag has not been met. Liverpool have also not punished Sakho. It is a completely different situation.




A football club has the right to choose who to sell a player to just like a hockey club has the right to choose who to trade a player to. If I'm Southampton, I try to ship him abroad rather than a top 5ish team that it would help nick possibly 6 points off me in the season.


----------



## phisherman

Savant said:


> But they aren't. And Southampton are.
> 
> Suarez' strike was brief, Gerrard talked him out of it even though Arsenal tampered. The rest was history




I guess PSG tampered with Neymar based on your stupid logic.


----------



## Epictetus

Yeah, Southamption is definitely not in the wrong, and Liverpool is. If you want the player, then submit a bid. It's ridiculous to get mad at a team and trash them for not selling, when you've never made an offer. 

It's even more hilarious that you openly declare you want this player so badly that you've made no back-up plan if you strike out. 

Things would be a lot different if Liverpool had a 60 million pound bid in, probably a more than fair evaluation, and Southampton was all, "Nah, we want to spite you".


----------



## MrFunnyWobbl

Ronaldo to Monaco?


----------



## Savant

phisherman said:


> I guess PSG tampered with Neymar based on your stupid logic.




Neymar's release clause was public. Suarez' release clause was private; yet Arsenal knew to bid one dollar over it?


----------



## Savant

Epictetus said:


> Yeah, Southamption is definitely not in the wrong, and Liverpool is. If you want the player, then submit a bid. It's ridiculous to get mad at a team and trash them for not selling, when you've never made an offer.
> 
> It's even more hilarious that you openly declare you want this player so badly that you've made no back-up plan if you strike out.
> 
> Things would be a lot different if Liverpool had a 60 million pound bid in, probably a more than fair evaluation, and Southampton was all, "Nah, we want to spite you".




Yes the LFC front office is very terrible. We are aware of this.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

MrFunnyWobbl said:


> Ronaldo to Monaco?




Mbappe to Dortmund to replace Dembele.


----------



## Evilo

Savant said:


> Not really sure how that is ethical or legal, but it just means no one besides LFC will pay their price tag, and they are being spiteful.






Savant said:


> Not even close.
> 
> Liverpool were prepared to make VVD the most expensively transferred CB of all time, offering a more than fair price. Sakho will be sold as soon as someone pays what Liverpool is asking for. Also Sakho has not submitted a transfer request, and Van Dijk hadn't done anything to lose the faith of the manager the previous season.




Indeed it's not close.
In one case, a player is sent to youth teams even though he's at the very least second best defenseman on the team and loves the team as well and forced to be there until he accepts a loan.

In the other case, a player under contract throws a tantrum for his contract to be breached even though the team is not selling. The team refuses to breach the contract and sends him to the reserves.

Indeed, not close. Though I do know where the "nonethical" comes from.


----------



## chasespace

Savant said:


> No. *Southampton accepts the amount that Liverpool is prepared to offer from any other club.* They are punishing the player because they don't want to sell to LFC despite the players transfer request and the player being fined by the club.
> 
> Sakho has not taken any such action and his price tag has not been met. Liverpool have also not punished Sakho. It is a completely different situation.




[citation needed]

Southampton has an internal price set, Liverpool has yet to meet it. They'll wait until the deadline to see if Liverpool, or anyone else, meets it. If not, they'll go with the highest bidder and spend that money in January.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Poor man's Reus.




Same thing


----------



## YNWA14

JoemAvs said:


> Yeah I really disagree with that....
> 
> If Liverpool wants to be a longterm top4 team they need to replace these guys in their first 11.
> 
> These guys are not good enough for a top level team.




That's just not true. Mignolet was great last season and as long as he's confident he'll continue to be a great option. Wijnaldum was probably our most consistent player against top teams last season and is quietly one of the coaches favourite players. Henderson was the best 6 in the league on his form last season before his injury and adapted extremely well to that role. There's a reason our team didn't lose a single game against the top 7 in the PL last year and it's not because Henderson, Wijnaldum, Henderson or Lovren weren't good enough.



Edo said:


> This is why I get upset at Liverpool fans. Again, you lose your best player, and again, you think the team will be a top club. Like, get out of here.




Coutinho isn't our best player. Klopp has also built the team in a way that is more important than any one player anyway.



Edo said:


> Arsenal's starting XI in game 1 of the 2016-2017 Premier League season against Liverpool.
> 
> Sanchez
> Iwobi-Ramsey-Walcott
> Coquelin-ElNeny
> Bellerin-Chambers-Holding-Monreal
> 
> Against a full Liverpool starting XI. Liverpool barely won. Is why Arsenal finished behind you guys. Simple as that.




Liverpool went up 4-1 and stopped playing. They didn't 'barely win', and if you watched the game you know there was a vast gulf in class when they were actually playing. But if that's your excuse then the only reason that Arsenal was close to Liverpool was because they had to field teams without Mane, Coutinho, Henderson, Matip and Lovren for a good chunk of the season. I guess we can all play that game.


----------



## Vipers31

Savant said:


> Neymar's release clause was public. Suarez' release clause was private; yet Arsenal knew to bid one dollar over it?




It's not private. It's not part of the public domain, but obviously the player and his agent are free to inform other clubs about the value of the buyout - anything else would completely destroy the point of any such clause.


----------

