# Worcester Railers to join the ECHL in 2017-18



## Woo Hockey

http://www.telegram.com/article/20151021/SPORTS/151029785

By Bill Ballou
Telegram & Gazette Staff

Posted Oct. 21, 2015 at 6:53 PM
Updated at 7:30 PM 

WORCESTER â€” The cityâ€™s second professional hockey hiatus may last only as long as its first â€” one winter.

Eastern Mass. businessman Cliff Rucker has been in serious talks with the DCU Center about locating an East Coast Hockey League franchise there next season, according to multiple sources.


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## JungleJON

Hope it works out for the city and fans.


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## BigBadBruin8

A Worcester Bruins ECHL team would be a success, I really believe that.

What Worcester needs to make sure of is that they don't get caught up in this nonsense that many smaller cities take where it's AHL-or-bust. I know Worcester has an AHL history but the AHL as a league is moving away from the days where there was a New England Division and towards having teams as close to their parents as possible.

Getting a tenant in the Centrum is the most important thing, and while I agree that some random affiliation team in the ECHL would not work, the Bruins affiliate would. They know it, the Bruins know it too I think, so hopefully they can get that done.

The Bruins have a two year deal with the Gladiators, but if Worcester landed an ECHL team for next season, I imagine Boston would be able to leave Atlanta without too much issue and set up shop at the AA level in Worcester. That would be great for hockey up here.


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## js957

ItsNotDylan said:


> http://www.telegram.com/article/20151021/SPORTS/151029785
> 
> By Bill Ballou
> Telegram & Gazette Staff
> 
> Posted Oct. 21, 2015 at 6:53 PM
> Updated at 7:30 PM
> 
> WORCESTER — The city’s second professional hockey hiatus may last only as long as its first — one winter.
> 
> Eastern Mass. businessman Cliff Rucker has been in serious talks with the DCU Center about locating an East Coast Hockey League franchise there next season, according to multiple sources.



i wonder why the p bruins talks fell apart i wonder if in the conversation someone suggested if the bruins echl team in Worcester was successful they should swap leagues at one point and the provdence bruins backed out because of that


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## BigBadBruin8

What P-Bruins talks? The P-Bruins are going to move or switch leagues, they're extremely successful there's no reason to.


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## 210

BigBadBruin8 said:


> *What P-Bruins talks?* The P-Bruins are going to move or switch leagues, they're extremely successful there's no reason too.




I take it you haven't read the article posted.


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## BigBadBruin8

210 said:


> I take it you haven't read the article posted.




I read it, including that half a line about Providence. I don't think they'd ever seriously consider moving, but you would know better than I.

Worcester should be focused on getting an ECHL team, that's the most realistic option to get hockey back and a tenant in the Centrum. May not be ideal to some but it's what's available.

I know Renfroe has the NESC and there's been rumors since he bought the team 10 years ago that they could move to the Worcester area, but until the city of Providence gives him a reason to leave I don't think he's going to do it.


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## Speed

BigBadBruin8 said:


> I read it, including that half a line about Providence. I don't think they'd ever seriously consider moving, but you would know better than I.
> 
> Worcester should be focused on getting an ECHL team, that's the most realistic option to get hockey back and a tenant in the Centrum. May not be ideal to some but it's what's available.
> 
> I know Renfroe has the NESC and there's been rumors since he bought the team 10 years ago that they could move to the Worcester area, but until the city of Providence gives him a reason to leave I don't think he's going to do it.




You read it wrong.
_"One group with Central Mass. ties explored the ECHL possibilities and the arena reportedly was very close to finalizing an agreement with representatives of the Providence Bruins before that unexpectedly fell apart."_

This meant an ECHL group was looking for Providence to manage operations for them. Providence Bruins are part of a group called PSG Agency. The office of PSG is basically the PBruins office. 

Worcester is and has been focused on getthing an ECHL Team - not an AHL team. Why you keep thinking otherwise, I have no idea. It has to be explored, of course, but focus has been ECHL. It is only coimmon sense, since AHL is moving more teams out of New England/NY and more ECHL coming in (or has the ability to).


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## 210

BigBadBruin8 said:


> I read it, including that half a line about Providence. I don't think they'd ever seriously consider moving, but you would know better than I.
> 
> Worcester should be focused on getting an ECHL team, that's the most realistic option to get hockey back and a tenant in the Centrum. May not be ideal to some but it's what's available.
> 
> I know Renfroe has the NESC and there's been rumors since he bought the team 10 years ago that they could move to the Worcester area, but until the city of Providence gives him a reason to leave I don't think he's going to do it.




To piggy-back Speed's post, the chances of Renfroe moving the PBruins to Worcester are extremely slim (not zero, but certainly close to that). Should he ever be interested in putting a team in Worcester the odds say it would be an ECHL team under the PSG umbrella. In fact, it makes financial sense for him to do so if possible.


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## js957

BigBadBruin8 said:


> What P-Bruins talks? The P-Bruins are going to move or switch leagues, they're extremely successful there's no reason to.



a lot of the p bruins success comes from the fact that they carry the bruins name i really don't think they would be nearly as successful if they where the Providence devils


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## BigBadBruin8

210 said:


> To piggy-back Speed's post, the chances of Renfroe moving the PBruins to Worcester are extremely slim (not zero, but certainly close to that). Should he ever be interested in putting a team in Worcester the odds say it would be an ECHL team under the PSG umbrella. In fact, it makes financial sense for him to do so if possible.




Let's hope he or someone else does. They would be a good draw for the city, and it would be nice to have hockey back after only a year hiatus.



js957 said:


> a lot of the p bruins success comes from the fact that they carry the bruins name i really don't think they would be nearly as successful if they where the Providence devils




Yeah, no one's going to dispute that. Prov is still a good market for the AHL even if it weren't the Bruins. A team that was run competently would be fine. You mention the Devils, notoriously tough partners for AHL teams, no one's been real successful with them as the parent.


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## GarbageGoal

js957 said:


> a lot of the p bruins success comes from the fact that they carry the bruins name i really don't think they would be nearly as successful if they where the Providence devils




Sure, you can move a Bruins team to anywhere in NE and do well, but people generally love coming to Providence as a city and the Dunk is as good as any arena in New England.

But that front office does not sit on their laurels when it comes to selling tickets. If Worcester got PSE in there to run things for an ECHL club at some point, they will do well off more than just the name.

Funny enough, the Devils were this close to moving here in 1992. Thankfully Anderson and Duross came through instead with the Mariners. **** Lou! He'd probably refuse to call them the Reds! (Which would be their name for almost any franchise other than the Bruins)


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## Woo Hockey

http://www.telegram.com/article/20151029/SPORTS/151029036/101360/NEWS

“The ECHL is aware of my interest and the DCU Center is aware of my interest,” Rucker said. “I flew down (to Trenton, New Jersey) a while back and met with (ECHL commissioner) Brian McKenna. I’ve requested and recently received the full paperwork and an application."


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## BigBadBruin8

Hey let's hope it happens. Getting hockey back at the Centrum would be great; it's going to be a longer winter with no games to go to.

Affiliating with the Bruins is not a given, though obviously it's a priority. I'm certainly not familiar with the ins and outs of the deals, but the B's have a two-year agreement with the Gladiators in Atlanta. How easy would it be for them to get out of year two of that deal?


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## Disengage

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Hey let's hope it happens. Getting hockey back at the Centrum would be great; it's going to be a longer winter with no games to go to.
> 
> Affiliating with the Bruins is not a given, though obviously it's a priority. I'm certainly not familiar with the ins and outs of the deals, but the B's have a two-year agreement with the Gladiators in Atlanta.* How easy would it be for them to get out of year two of that deal?*




Enough money will get you out of anything.


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## Woo Hockey

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Hey let's hope it happens. Getting hockey back at the Centrum would be great; it's going to be a longer winter with no games to go to.
> 
> Affiliating with the Bruins is not a given, though obviously it's a priority. I'm certainly not familiar with the ins and outs of the deals, but the B's have a two-year agreement with the Gladiators in Atlanta. How easy would it be for them to get out of year two of that deal?




ECHL affiliations are considerably less formal than NHL-AHL agreements.


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## BigBadBruin8

Disengage said:


> Enough money will get you out of anything.




Of course, a very valid point. We'l see what happens but I hope "enough" money isn't "too much" lol.



ItsNotDylan said:


> ECHL affiliations are considerably less formal than NHL-AHL agreements.




I figured as much. It's clearly something that any owner trying to bring the ECHL to Worcester is going to want, that B's affiliation. It definitely could be the difference between success and failure.

If the team ends up as the Worcester Bruins, which you would have to imagine it would, what's the nickname though? I'd say Dub-Bruins or Woo-Bruins. These are the important things that need to be settled


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## Woo Hockey

BigBadBruin8 said:


> I figured as much. It's clearly something that any owner trying to bring the ECHL to Worcester is going to want, that B's affiliation. It definitely could be the difference between success and failure.
> 
> If the team ends up as the Worcester Bruins, which you would have to imagine it would, what's the nickname though? I'd say Dub-Bruins or Woo-Bruins. These are the important things that need to be settled




The Bruins affiliation would be the best bet, there's no denying that and everyone seems to agree on that. It could be a year or two before that could happen if the Bruins want to continue the contract with Atlanta or until they realize that a Worcester team would fit into their organization well. 

It's still a possibility that the team won't have an affiliation with any team unless they make that a requirement for any new franchises, similar to how the AHL teams must be affiliated with NHL teams. The IceCats' did not have any affiliation the first year of their existence and that was arguably one of their better years in terms of attendance. 

The name doesn't have to be Bruins, I highly doubt the name will be Worcester Bruins if the team indeed does get the affiliation. No ECHL team takes the same name directly from their AHL or NHL affiliate, and I think it would be best if we had something different or original. Something that's local to the city would be best. The possibility of reviving the IceCats' name has been brought up many times.


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## BigBadBruin8

ItsNotDylan said:


> The Bruins affiliation would be the best bet, there's no denying that and everyone seems to agree on that. It could be a year or two before that could happen if the Bruins want to continue the contract with Atlanta or until they realize that a Worcester team would fit into their organization well.




The way they operate I would be surprised if they _didn't_ go to Worcester as soon as they could. I think they would much rather have that ability to drive an hour and see their prospects.



ItsNotDylan said:


> It's still a possibility that the team won't have an affiliation with any team unless they make that a requirement for any new franchises, similar to how the AHL teams must be affiliated with NHL teams. The IceCats' did not have any affiliation the first year of their existence and that was arguably one of their better years in terms of attendance.




Right but as you said, that was their first year and the first year the Centrum had a hockey tenant in general. I don't think the fact that they were unaffiliated had much of an effect at all on the attendance, rather it was the new game in town.



ItsNotDylan said:


> The name doesn't have to be Bruins, I highly doubt the name will be Worcester Bruins if the team indeed does get the affiliation. No ECHL team takes the same name directly from their AHL or NHL affiliate, and I think it would be best if we had something different or original. Something that's local to the city would be best. The possibility of reviving the IceCats' name has been brought up many times.




I wouldn't hate the IceCats as the name with a black & gold theme, not at all. But there have been teams that branded all the way down to the ECHL level (the Devils did it) with their parent club names.

If they want to help ensure success, naming the team the Bruins (if affiliated with Boston) is a surefire way to do that. It just helps. But I also agree that were the team named the IceCats that would also lead to success. Would it be better if they were named the Bruins or the IceCats? Hard to say, but I would say that I think it's probably one or the other.


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## Speed

Re: Bruins affiliation + name:

Who knows what is in the affiliation agreement contract. It could be 2 1-yr deals. It could have a clause that either party can back out as long as Atlanta has another affiliation lined up. OR there could just be a penalty. 

Also a possibility - Say Worcester and the Bruins really, really like each other and want to have that affiliation, but can't till '17-'18. I don't any reason why the team couldn't be called the Bruins for '16-'17 - with the Bruins permission of course. This is assuming that is the preferred team name.

Best success I think is to call them the Bruins. Same black and gold. The casual fans and families will eat that up. Can always have throwback "IceCats" night and bring back the old uniforms and Scratch. 

Re: 1st year attendance wasn't just good due to being new, but the amount of free tickets given out. They papered the house pretty good back then.


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## BigBadBruin8

Yeah the IceCats nights that they had with the Sharks always seemed pretty popular, I'd imagine if the team weren't named the IceCats they'd continue that.

Naming them the Bruins, like you said, is the #1 way to bring in more casual fans, which they will need. It's a strong brand and using that branding all the way through the organization is a good thing IMO.


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## Woo Hockey

http://www.telegram.com/article/20151101/SPORTS/151109902/101360/NEWS

Mr. IceCat Terry Virtue on returning to Worcester and Hockey:

“I have a passion for coaching,” he said, “but I’m only a dad once, and that’s why I stepped away from it, because I wanted to be a dad coaching him. But eventually, with the right situation, I do want to get back into coaching, once he gets older and I’m not taking away from my family.”

Virtue has remained in the loop regarding the city’s possible return to professional hockey, most likely in the ECHL.

“That’s part of me coming back this way,” he said, “knowing that something like that might happen here. Worcester means a lot to me, and I know that pro hockey means a lot to the city. I’d think I’d like to be part of helping it succeed.”


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## Woo Hockey

An update: "Chairman Budd inquired if there was any further update regarding hockey team discussions. Ms. Dunn replied that there is a lease agreement on the table currently. An additional meeting is scheduled for Friday, November 20th with process continuing. The ECHL deadline is December 15th".

http://www.worcesterma.gov/agendas-...ons/civic-center-commission/2015/20151119.pdf


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## Woo Hockey

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2015/12/hockey_could_return_to_worcest_1.html

The ECHL Board of Governors will meet in February to review applications. It is anticipated that a team would begin playing in Worcester for the 2017/2018 season.


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## JDogindy

Unfortunately, the team will most likely not be named the IceCats. Whitehawks has been trademarked, though the owner is open to different nicknames.

I liked that the report mentioned Indianapolis as a former AHL market. We haven't had an AHL team in nearly 60 years.


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## wildthing202

http://www.telegram.com/article/20151217/NEWS/151219346

Telegram's version though it mostly the same information.


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## BigBadBruin8

JDogindy said:


> Unfortunately, the team will most likely not be named the IceCats. Whitehawks has been trademarked, though the owner is open to different nicknames.
> 
> I liked that the report mentioned Indianapolis as a former AHL market. We haven't had an AHL team in nearly 60 years.




Whitehawks is........I don't want to say 'dumb' because I feel like that would be mean, but it doesn't make a ton of sense outside of alliteration.

IceCats is trademarked by who I would ask? See who would already have it and perhaps negotiate?

But if they don't start til 2017, that season the Bruins would be without an ECHL club, as their deal with the Gladiators is for two years, this and next. Would work out perfectly if they could slide into Worcester right when their deal in GA is over.

Plus, you could then name the team the Bruins and be done with it. It will suck having no hockey next year either but well worth it if the Bruins and up with their ECHL affiliate in Worcester.


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## 210

BigBadBruin8 said:


> IceCats is trademarked by who I would ask? See who would already have it and perhaps negotiate?




I believe former IceCats trainer Mark Puleo owns it.

But a smart owner won't use it anyway.


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## wildthing202

210 said:


> I believe former IceCats trainer Mark Puleo owns it.
> 
> But a smart owner won't use it anyway.




https://www.facebook.com/tpehockey/info/?tab=overview

Whomever owns this place is the person who owns the trademark.

From TESS
86429322 - owner - The Professionals Edge LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY MASSACHUSETTS 284 Lake Ave Worcester MASSACHUSETTS 01604
86528300 - owner - The Professionals Edge L.L.C. LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY MASSACHUSETTS 10 Williamsburg Ct Shrewsbury MASSACHUSETTS 01545

Address matches the first TESS listing.

Whitehawks does sound dumb sounds like we're anti-Chicago or something.

TESS listing for Worcester Whitehawks
86830051 - owner - WORCESTER PROHOCKEY, LLC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY MASSACHUSETTS 6 Bridle Spur Road Danvers MASSACHUSETTS 01923
Filed 11/24/15

Just the word mark no logo as of yet.


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## 210

wildthing202 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/tpehockey/info/?tab=overview
> 
> Whomever owns this place is the person who owns the trademark.
> 
> From TESS
> 86429322 - owner - The Professionals Edge LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY MASSACHUSETTS 284 Lake Ave Worcester MASSACHUSETTS 01604
> 86528300 - owner - The Professionals Edge L.L.C. LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY MASSACHUSETTS 10 Williamsburg Ct Shrewsbury MASSACHUSETTS 01545
> 
> Address matches the first TESS listing.




That is Mark Puleo's business...


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## wildthing202

210 said:


> That is Mark Puleo's business...




Good to know. I had no clue, I don't even know who that is. I just like looking this stuff up.


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## 210

wildthing202 said:


> Good to know. I had no clue, I don't even know who that is. I just like looking this stuff up.




To be honest I wouldn't know him if I tripped over him...


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## BigBadBruin8

210 said:


> I believe former IceCats trainer Mark Puleo owns it.
> 
> But a smart owner won't use it anyway.




As long as there has been a chance for an ECHL team in Worcester I've been hoping they would affiliate with Boston and just be the Bruins.

IceCats is nice, and it's fun for a throwback night. That's probably where it would be best suited.

The name and brand recognition using the Bruins name is the best bet to draw more casual fans in. It makes the most sense out of anything they could possibly come up with. That's JMO.

Of course if they don't get a Bruins affiliation then it's up in the air, but by the same token if they don't get a Bruins affiliation they're going to have a hard time surviving so it would end up moot.


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## BigBadBruin8

210 said:


> To be honest I wouldn't know him if I tripped over him...




Wonder how much he made on the nights when they would throw back to the IceCats?


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## Sports Enthusiast

Cool. Getting closer to having a form of a northeast league as it should be more of.


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## Agalloch

So with Worcester coming in. What could be the 30th team ? Oklahoma City ?


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## paul-laus

Am I the only one on here that finds it kinda lame that it's gonna take almost two full years to get this operation off the ground? Why can't it be ready in the ten months to begin play for the 2016-17 season? It should have little to do with developing a fan base or getting an arena ready.


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## 210

paul-laus said:


> Am I the only one on here that finds it kinda lame that it's gonna take almost two full years to get this operation off the ground? Why can't it be ready in the ten months to begin play for the 2016-17 season? It should have little to do with developing a fan base or getting an arena ready.




From the article linked in post #26


> â€œIf I wanted to drop a puck for the 2016-17 season, that would give me three or four months to hire staff and start to generate revenue. I made a determination, along with the ECHL â€”their best practices say you need 12 months from the time of approval until you drop a puck, and while they donâ€™t mandate it, if Iâ€™m trying to get approval and Iâ€™m going against their best practices, thatâ€™s probably not a great idea.
> 
> â€œBest practices aside, I didnâ€™t want to show up here and immediately try to start selling tickets, start selling sponsorships. I donâ€™t want to just do this, I want to do it right. Iâ€™m in it for the long haul. So I felt Iâ€™m going to need about a year to staff up, and integrate into the community.â€




If a successful businessman like Cliff Rucker wants to buy a team in a league where very few make money and has a plan that he thinks will help him succeed, I'm all for him doing it the way he wants.


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## SemireliableSource

paul-laus said:


> Am I the only one on here that finds it kinda lame that it's gonna take almost two full years to get this operation off the ground? Why can't it be ready in the ten months to begin play for the 2016-17 season? It should have little to do with developing a fan base or getting an arena ready.



More time to build a relationship with potential sponsors and vendors. Better relationships = more money/trade.


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## Woo Hockey

Agalloch said:


> So with Worcester coming in. What could be the 30th team ? Oklahoma City ?




Someone posted in this section that this is the year Reno gets their team. Who knows if that's the case though. You don't really hear much about these expansions compared to the NHL expansion or if there is a group of people keeping up with this stuff and are more vocal about it.


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## Woo Hockey

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Whitehawks is........I don't want to say 'dumb' because I feel like that would be mean, but it doesn't make a ton of sense outside of alliteration.




Most ECHL teams have names that are off or have names you would never expect to see as a name of a sports team. Greenville Swamp Rabbits and the Orlando Solar Bears are two names that come to mind that have names that are "different".


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## SemireliableSource

If you think ECHL names are "off" or "different", take a look at Minor League Baseball. Some out there names everywhere. Just in the Southern League you have the Montgomey Biscuits, Pensacola Blue Wahoos, and the Biloxi Shuckers.


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## My Cozen Dylan

ItsNotDylan said:


> Most ECHL teams have names that are off or have names you would never expect to see as a name of a sports team. Greenville Swamp Rabbits and the Orlando Solar Bears are two names that come to mind that have names that are "different".




But they have regional ties to their name so it makes them cool. That's the best way to name a minor league sports team IMO.


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## BigBadBruin8

ItsNotDylan said:


> Most ECHL teams have names that are off or have names you would never expect to see as a name of a sports team. Greenville Swamp Rabbits and the Orlando Solar Bears are two names that come to mind that have names that are "different".






FrancoRussianAlaskan said:


> If you think ECHL names are "off" or "different", take a look at Minor League Baseball. Some out there names everywhere. Just in the Southern League you have the Montgomey Biscuits, Pensacola Blue Wahoos, and the Biloxi Shuckers.




Yeah I mean I know that the lower you go in minor league sports the more eccentric the names can become. That wasn't really what I was saying, I was pointing out that 'Whitehawks' doesn't make sense for Worcester outside of the fact that it starts with a 'W' because...



jawallstar1 said:


> But they have regional ties to their name so it makes them cool. That's the best way to name a minor league sports team IMO.




...it has no tie to the area or the city. I'm sure there is something they could come up with that makes a little more sense as far as relating to Worcester goes. Something a little "off the wall" or whatever.

But as I've said before, I hope it won't matter and that they'll be the Worcester Bruins.


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## BigBadBruin8

210 said:


> From the article linked in post #26
> 
> 
> If a successful businessman like Cliff Rucker wants to buy a team in a league where very few make money and has a plan that he thinks will help him succeed, I'm all for him doing it the way he wants.






FrancoRussianAlaskan said:


> More time to build a relationship with potential sponsors and vendors. Better relationships = more money/trade.




Yeah count me in this camp as well. If it takes an extra year then so be it, more than willing to wait to watch a solidified team versus a scramble to get an organization off the ground in time for an earlier season. The latter will only lead to problems.


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## Sports Enthusiast

I wouldn't worry about who will be the 30th team. The league has quite a few franchises on sketchy ground to begin with that in two years time I'm sure you'll see some folds rather than being closer to 30.


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## GarbageGoal

Whitehawks is a pretty boring name. Nevermind the fact the bird is not indigenous to North America.

I bet it won't end up being the actual name anyhow......


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## mk80

I would think that they would try to negotiate the use of the Icecats identity. White hawks is probably their plan B if they can't get it.


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## 210

mk80 said:


> I would think that they would try to negotiate the use of the Icecats identity. White hawks is probably their plan B if they can't get it.




I'm not sure that the potential owner wants the name IceCats.


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## BigBadBruin8

mk80 said:


> I would think that they would try to negotiate the use of the Icecats identity. White hawks is probably their plan B if they can't get it.




Whitehawks might end up being plan D or E if people in Worcester don't like it. I think he trademarked a name just to have a last ditch option in case...

Like 210 said whoever owns this team (Rucker) may not want to use IceCats outside of a throwback night like they do now. That seems to work well in the community when they do it, just the right amount of nostalgia to make that night successful.


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## WeHaveBeenFletched

jawallstar1 said:


> But they have regional ties to their name so it makes them cool. That's the best way to name a minor league sports team IMO.




NH FisherCats were going to be called the Primaries before a name change was asked for by a petition. 
Primaries would of just been the worst.


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## Cacciaguida

Sports Enthusiast said:


> I wouldn't worry about who will be the 30th team. The league has quite a few franchises on sketchy ground to begin with that in two years time I'm sure you'll see some folds rather than being closer to 30.





Every league has shaky teams, unless the league is in trouble there's no reason why they shouldn't expand.


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## JonnyBox

jawallstar1 said:


> But they have regional ties to their name so it makes them cool. That's the best way to name a minor league sports team IMO.




So... Worcester Lake Rats?


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## 210

JonnyBox said:


> So... Worcester Lake Rats?




Of course not, that's stupid...




........it would be Quinsigamond Lake Rats.


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## Woo Hockey

Agalloch said:


> So with Worcester coming in. What could be the 30th team ? Oklahoma City ?




OKC doesn't have an ownership group and didn't apply for a team before the deadline a few weeks ago. The commissioner said in an interview that OKC is a city that has expressed interest in a team though. 

http://thesinbin.net/podcast/into-the-sin-bin-with-brian-mckenna/

In regards to Worcester, he says in the interview that a decision should be made a the mid-season meeting unless the league needs more information from the ownership group, which would then delay a decision to the end of February.


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## Speed

210 said:


> Of course not, that's stupid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ........it would be Quinsigamond Lake Rats.




I'm still holding out for Worcester Fighting Worms


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## BigBadBruin8

Worcester Warriors are a rugby club in the UK, but as far as names go that's a pretty good one if we're guessing alternatives to "Bruins".

Could always go with Worcester Tornadoes, no negative history with that name in the least....


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## My Cozen Dylan

How about the Worcester Bees? Sounds like the nickname for Bruins (B's) and can fit a black-and-yellow color scheme.


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## JonnyBox

210 said:


> Of course not, that's stupid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ........it would be Quinsigamond Lake Rats.


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## Woo Hockey

Articles from the past few days...

Worcester hopes to follow in Manchester's ECHL footsteps
Game time: Sports teams are a going concern in Worcester
Worcester ECHL team on tap?


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## BigBadBruin8

Tough to wait but it's a smart business decision and will be worth it in the end.


----------



## Woo Hockey

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Tough to wait but it's a smart business decision and will be worth it in the end.




The meeting in Kalamazoo is next week, hopefully we'll hear the news we've all been waiting for. 

Side note: Friday marks the one-year anniversary of the west coast moves.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Not sure if this was posted in here, but something to look at in terms of expectations the for the city and team, including a long term goal of establishing affiliation with the Boston Bruins.

http://www.worcesterma.gov/agendas-...ons/civic-center-commission/2015/20151217.pdf


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## crimsonace

Being in Indy, I can tell you that affiliations - even though ECHL affiliations are largely informal - mean A LOT if there's a presence of hockey fans in the area. 

Our ECHL team has an affiliation with Chicago, and is located in a city with a ton of transplanted Chicagoans (as well as a city with 4 NHL franchises basically in the same region, and the Blackhawks have nosed out the Wings & Blues as the most popular). As soon as the affiliation was announced for our expansion team, there was a spike in season ticket sales. 

While the relationship on-ice has largely involved developing rookie defensemen for Rockford (and having a couple of other players assigned from other AHL teams), allowing a minor pro starting point for a late-developing prospect forward who moves up to an AHL deal the next year (as happened last year), and the typical ECHL org's role of having the franchise's No. 5 goalie, the Chicago affiliation has been invaluable from a marketing standpoint. Being able to slap the Blackhawks logo on everything gave the team instant credibility in this market - and there are tons of Toews & Kane jerseys in the crowd at every game, and they don't go out of their way to hide the affiliation (playing Chelsea Dagger after goals, for example). We bring Jim Cornelison in to sing the anthem at least once a year, their PA announcer Gene Honda has made appearances, as has Bobby Hull and other organizational reps. Honestly, from a marketing/economic standpoint, Indy would rather have a Blackhawks ECHL team and have local rivals (Cincy, Fort Wayne) than have an AHL team affiliated with anyone else. 

It doesn't really matter to me who we're affiliated with - I've grown up supporting minor pro teams in this city who are affiliated with the Isles, Hawks, Devils, North Stars, while being a Bruins fan the whole time - but it does when it comes to the city fanbase. 

Knowing how big the Bruins are in Massachusetts & New England, whether or not it really nets a lot of players isn't the point. A Bruins affiliation would be a win-win, especially from a marketing standpoint, and with the number of Bruins alumni who live in the area and are actively involved in the organization. To be able to have Cam Neely, Ray Bourque or even #4 come visit for a night, or to bring Rene Rancourt in to sing the anthem would be big in giving credibility to the fanbase, and allow them to have a direct identity with the Bruins.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

Worcester would actually bring Rene in to sing the anthems once a year when they were the Sharks, I'm sure that would continue.

A really important point I got out of that file was the fact that the previous teams couldn't market east of 495, but since this team is at a AA level they could. That's huge regardless if they are affiliated or not, it helps to be able to market a more cost-effective option to hockey fans in the area.

But while the minutes there suggest that they may be independent for several years I don't imagine that would be the case. If the team is approved for 17-18 they have plenty of time to get started, get settled, and the Bruins current ECHL affiliation expires after 16-17. Since that type of affiliation agreement can be signed relatively late, it makes all the sense in the world that they slide in to Worcester when the club starts.

Maybe it would take longer, I don't know, but it won't be THAT long before this ECHL team in Worcester is the Bruins affiliate IMO.


----------



## crimsonace

BigBadBruin8 said:


> But while the minutes there suggest that they may be independent for several years I don't imagine that would be the case. If the team is approved for 17-18 they have plenty of time to get started, get settled, and the Bruins current ECHL affiliation expires after 16-17. Since that type of affiliation agreement can be signed relatively late, it makes all the sense in the world that they slide in to Worcester when the club starts.
> 
> Maybe it would take longer, I don't know, but it won't be THAT long before this ECHL team in Worcester is the Bruins affiliate IMO.




Bruins signed the affiliation agreement with Atlanta *very* late in the offseason - I had our home game date against South Carolina circled for much of the summer, thinking it would be a date to see at least the few guys Providence had assigned, and then the affiliation changed at the last minute to a team Indy doesn't play at home. Boston has moved its ECHL affiliation around and it had almost always shared an affiliation with others. 

The other major reason for the proposed Worcester franchise to affiliate with Boston/Providence is practical. If the P-Bruins need to call a guy up quick, Worcester is pretty close. And the unbalanced ECHL schedule means a sizable portion of the schedule will be against Manchester, Adirondack, Elmira & probably Reading, so the team won't really be traveling that far for most of the schedule, meaning players are around for quick call-ups or reassignments.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

The management in Boston can also see whatever prospects are in the ECHL with ease if the team were in Worcester, as opposed to basically not being able to see them at all with the team in Georgia.

I get that the Bruins "vet their affiliations very carefully" like the minutes say, and by that they likely mean that the Bruins may not want to enter in to an agreement with an expansion franchise because its viability may be up for debate the first few years. But the ECHL has a lot of franchise upheaval, more than the AHL, and that's part of the league; if the Bruins needed to find an affiliate on short notice it could be done.

Hopefully this new franchise will be able to meet the ECHL's minimums for advertising, corporate partnerships and season ticket sales, and with that done they will be able to show that they are a good match for the B's to affiliate with right away.

Plus, the sooner they are settled in an affiliation the sooner we'll know if the team will be taking on the Bruins name, etc.


----------



## Captain Crash

BigBadBruin8 said:


> The management in Boston can also see whatever prospects are in the ECHL with ease if the team were in Worcester, as opposed to basically not being able to see them at all with the team in Georgia.




The Penguins have taken advantage of this very often. Since Wheeling is just over an hour away from Pittsburgh, there's always someone from the Penguins staff at the games. It's pretty common to see Mark Recchi or Bill Guerin, who are much higher up in the organization than simply scouts, working in a loge box. Honestly, the way the Pens benefit from their relationship with Wheeling, I think you'd sooner see the Pens buy a stake in the team than let them fold or relocate.


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## Sports Enthusiast

Doesn't seem to be making Wheeling a good team.


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## Captain Crash

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Doesn't seem to be making Wheeling a good team.




I never said it was.


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## Sports Enthusiast

Captain Crash said:


> I never said it was.




I know but this hurts the actual team. That was my point haha.


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## 210

Sports Enthusiast said:


> I know but this hurts the actual team. That was my point haha.




How does it hurt the actual team?


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## crimsonace

Pens/Wheeling are another team that really leverage the affiliation well (Flyers/Reading seem to be doing the same). All 3 teams in the system in close proximity, Wheeling's uniforms use the same colors & fonts as the Penguins. Not sure how they use it to market, but having that tie with the Pens has to help attendance in a very small market.


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## Sports Enthusiast

crimsonace said:


> Pens/Wheeling are another team that really leverage the affiliation well (Flyers/Reading seem to be doing the same). All 3 teams in the system in close proximity, Wheeling's uniforms use the same colors & fonts as the Penguins. Not sure how they use it to market, but having that tie with the Pens has to help attendance in a very small market.




It doesn't. That's why the teams in trouble. Attendance is awful.


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## Sports Enthusiast

210 said:


> How does it hurt the actual team?




Because a team should try to win. Now they are focused on having talent evaluated. Wheeling is also tied for last in the conference.


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## 210

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Because a team should try to win. Now they are focused on having talent evaluated. Wheeling is also tied for last in the conference.




How do you know they aren't focused on winning? Just because they aren't winning doesn't mean they aren't focused on it.


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## Avsrule2022

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Because a team should try to win. Now they are focused on having talent evaluated. Wheeling is also tied for last in the conference.




ECHL teams are NOT interested or focused on having talent evaluated. As you have stated many times before, the affilliation thing is a farce. ECHL teams don't really care about developing talent for the next level. They want to win just like every other team. They give lip service to being a "developmental" league, but no team wants to have players called up.


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## Sports Enthusiast

Avsrule2002 said:


> ECHL teams are NOT interested or focused on having talent evaluated. As you have stated many times before, the affilliation thing is a farce. ECHL teams don't really care about developing talent for the next level. They want to win just like every other team. They give lip service to being a "developmental" league, but no team wants to have players called up.




The way they build rosters though wouldn't suggest that because if they did not care they'd go for not necessarily all veterans but "seasoned" players who have enough time and experience who aren't necessarily vets but they aren't inexperienced guys going on their first rodeo.


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## Sports Enthusiast

210 said:


> How do you know they aren't focused on winning? Just because they aren't winning doesn't mean they aren't focused on it.




I don't necessarily but that's the thing with the ECHL. Not all teams build their teams the same unlike the AHL. There's some teams who try to build older rosters. In the South you tend to get older teams cause guys want to golf all year for example.


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## 210

Sports Enthusiast said:


> The way they build rosters though wouldn't suggest that because if they did not care they'd go for not necessarily all veterans but "seasoned" players who have enough time and experience who aren't necessarily vets but they aren't inexperienced guys going on their first rodeo.




You know the ECHL has a veteran rule similar to the AHL's, right?

You can read about it here:
http://www.echl.com/faq-s-s12377


----------



## Avsrule2022

Sports Enthusiast said:


> The way they build rosters though wouldn't suggest that because if they did not care they'd go for not necessarily all veterans but "seasoned" players who have enough time and experience who aren't necessarily vets but they aren't inexperienced guys going on their first rodeo.




This is exactly what Colorado did this year. And Wichita. And Alaska. All unafilliated, and all playing poorly, or below the level that they usually play. Which says to me that if you want to win in the ECHL, you need to find players that for some reason were missed by NHL and AHL teams. Young guys who are hungry. Add in 4 vets and 4 AHL send downs, and you can succeed in winning. It's not that ECHL teams are really trying to develop these young guys, it's that in this day and age of pro hockey, those are the guys that can win you a championship.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Avsrule2002 said:


> This is exactly what Colorado did this year. And Wichita. And Alaska. All unafilliated, and all playing poorly, or below the level that they usually play. Which says to me that if you want to win in the ECHL, you need to find players that for some reason were missed by NHL and AHL teams. Young guys who are hungry. Add in 4 vets and 4 AHL send downs, and you can succeed in winning. It's not that ECHL teams are really trying to develop these young guys, it's that in this day and age of pro hockey, those are the guys that can win you a championship.




did u ever consider tht the talent pool in the E is forcing the changes as to why dual affiliations were outlawed by the ECHL, something the AHL abolished the independent rules over a quarter century. Alaska may be in more trouble now then in the past regardless of past success/ownership. It's doubtful tht no ECHL Club will be allowed to operate as a member club as an independent are coming to an abrupt end but will soon.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Avsrule2002 said:


> This is exactly what Colorado did this year. And Wichita. And Alaska. All unafilliated, and all playing poorly, or below the level that they usually play. Which says to me that if you want to win in the ECHL, you need to find players that for some reason were missed by NHL and AHL teams. Young guys who are hungry. Add in 4 vets and 4 AHL send downs, and you can succeed in winning. It's not that ECHL teams are really trying to develop these young guys, it's that in this day and age of pro hockey, those are the guys that can win you a championship.




I can't defend the other two but for Alaska they have lost a lot of the teams they used to just pounce on in Cali. The travel has to wear them out too. Though they never had great travel anyway but now there's no short trips to Cali and different opponents they haven't always played.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

210 said:


> You know the ECHL has a veteran rule similar to the AHL's, right?
> 
> You can read about it here:
> http://www.echl.com/faq-s-s12377




That's why I put seasoned in quotes. Guys who have played a few years but don't qualify. Also you could be the age of a vet and not qualify for one as not all Euro trash leagues out there count.


----------



## Avsrule2022

Sports Enthusiast said:


> I can't defend the other two but for Alaska they have lost a lot of the teams they used to just pounce on in Cali. The travel has to wear them out too. Though they never had great travel anyway but now there's no short trips to Cali and different opponents they haven't always played.




Alaska never pounced on Ontario. Maybe Bako. Sockton was a push. Travel for Alaska is all by plane. Their average plane trip is probably the same as every western team's average bus trip. The different opponents they havent always played are playing crap hockey right now. The point is, what you think the ECHL is and what it really is are 2 different things. At least in my opinion.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Avsrule2002 said:


> Alaska never pounced on Ontario. Maybe Bako. Sockton was a push. Travel for Alaska is all by plane. Their average plane trip is probably the same as every western team's average bus trip. The different opponents they havent always played are playing crap hockey right now. The point is, what you think the ECHL is and what it really is are 2 different things. At least in my opinion.




What do you think it is?

I just see it as someone's gotta be bad by default and someone's gotta be great by default and then there's a bunch of teams inbetween those plateaus. That's all sports. 30-30-30 would be a nightmare. Yes it'd curb the poaching but it'd still come down to how much the higher ups cared and in most cases they don't. You'd have to be that lucky organization where they do.


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## 210

Sports Enthusiast said:


> That's why I put seasoned in quotes. Guys who have played a few years but don't qualify. Also you could be the age of a vet and not qualify for one as not all Euro trash leagues out there count.




There's a contract reserve/RFA system in the ECHL, so it's not easy to get new "seasoned" players for your team. Guessing that's info not on the app either.

The "Euro trash" comment just shows you're a troll, and I'll let the mods handle you on that.


----------



## Avsrule2022

Sports Enthusiast said:


> What do you think it is?
> 
> I just see it as someone's gotta be bad by default and someone's gotta be great by default and then there's a bunch of teams inbetween those plateaus. That's all sports. 30-30-30 would be a nightmare. Yes it'd curb the poaching but it'd still come down to how much the higher ups cared and in most cases they don't. You'd have to be that lucky organization where they do.




I think the E is an entertainment league. As you have stated many times, calling it a developmental league is kind of a farce. It's not like these teams are loaded with prospects being called up and down like the AHL. Most teams don't have more than 3 or 4 assigned players anyway. ECHL hockey is for smaller cities that don't have a lot of other hockey choices available, or for people who love the game but cant afford NHL ticket prices.
I don't know. It's kind of pointless to argue about. A lot of people like the ECHL product, and a lot don't. It's all personal preference and availability. With more and more youth playing hockey, the talent pool will continue to grow, and the E offers a professional path to some of those players who have spent their whole lives playing hockey and aren't willing to give it up yet.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Avsrule2002 said:


> I think the E is an entertainment league. As you have stated many times, calling it a developmental league is kind of a farce. It's not like these teams are loaded with prospects being called up and down like the AHL. Most teams don't have more than 3 or 4 assigned players anyway. ECHL hockey is for smaller cities that don't have a lot of other hockey choices available, or for people who love the game but cant afford NHL ticket prices.
> I don't know. It's kind of pointless to argue about. A lot of people like the ECHL product, and a lot don't. It's all personal preference and availability. With more and more youth playing hockey, the talent pool will continue to grow, and the E offers a professional path to some of those players who have spent their whole lives playing hockey and aren't willing to give it up yet.




I would agree with all that except sadly the league seems to go the other way. Places like Wheeling and Elmira were what the league used to be. Now we have teams like Orlando. I do think the league has gotten away from its roots and its disappointing. How are you supposed to tell me that its fair that a city like Cincinnati has a team in this league and then there's a team in Wheeling. Yeah there's a cap but let's be real its no shocker that the bigger city team has Cups and the other hasnt played in the Finals since the cup name was changed many moons ago.


----------



## Nightsquad

Avsrule2002 said:


> I think the E is an entertainment league. As you have stated many times, calling it a developmental league is kind of a farce. It's not like these teams are loaded with prospects being called up and down like the AHL. Most teams don't have more than 3 or 4 assigned players anyway. ECHL hockey is for smaller cities that don't have a lot of other hockey choices available, or for people who love the game but cant afford NHL ticket prices.
> I don't know. It's kind of pointless to argue about. A lot of people like the ECHL product, and a lot don't. It's all personal preference and availability. With more and more youth playing hockey, the talent pool will continue to grow, and the E offers a professional path to some of those players who have spent their whole lives playing hockey and aren't willing to give it up yet.




The E is an Entertianment league, of course it is. The OHL, QMJHL, WHL, USHL, NAHL, SPHL, AHL, and even the NHL are Entertianment leagues lol. That's what they are, sports entertainment. People buy tickets to attend, by merchandise to show their spirit, support, and businesses align themselves for advertising purposes because it's a product. It's all entertainment at the end of the day.....The Junior leagues and minors are the pathway to the big show, entertainment.....That's all it is.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

Sooooooooooo back on topic, I'm interested to hear what the verdict is here from the ECHL. I have a hard time imagining that this ownership group is not granted a team. Once they are it will be nice to know there will be minor hockey to go to at the Centrum soon enough.

I'm still curious how aggressive they will be in pursuing an affiliation, even though they say they are focused on being independent at the outset.


----------



## Woo Hockey

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Sooooooooooo back on topic, I'm interested to hear what the verdict is here from the ECHL. I have a hard time imagining that this ownership group is not granted a team. Once they are it will be nice to know there will be minor hockey to go to at the Centrum soon enough.
> 
> I'm still curious how aggressive they will be in pursuing an affiliation, even though they say they are focused on being independent at the outset.




I have a gut feeling they're going to be tough granting the affiliation. Based on past teams folding and having issues with their home arena, the board is probably going to be looking to make sure everything's perfect. Same goes for the other expansion team whenever that gets granted, I'd imagine that would be even tougher to get since it's the last one. 

I have no doubts that Cliff Rucker's ownership group won't get granted the expansion team. He's spent a ton of time and money not to get his application declined. I'm just hoping it's accepted next week and not delayed like the commissioner had mentioned that possibility in an interview a few weeks ago.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Nightsquad said:


> The E is an Entertianment league, of course it is. The OHL, QMJHL, WHL, USHL, NAHL, SPHL, AHL, and even the NHL are Entertianment leagues lol. That's what they are, sports entertainment. People buy tickets to attend, by merchandise to show their spirit, support, and businesses align themselves for advertising purposes because it's a product. It's all entertainment at the end of the day.....The Junior leagues and minors are the pathway to the big show, entertainment.....That's all it is.




All sports is, is entertainment with a score. However you watch TV shows, right? You're not gunna watch something you don't like or think is good, correct? I get you can try and fail but I guess sports are different. They are judged on records. Though the intelligent person can appreciate a "bad" team that battles hard and is in games and the games are close.


----------



## 210

ItsNotDylan said:


> I have a gut feeling they're going to be tough granting the affiliation. Based on past teams folding and having issues with their home arena, the board is probably going to be looking to make sure everything's perfect. Same goes for the other expansion team whenever that gets granted, I'd imagine that would be even tougher to get since it's the last one.




An affiliation would be negotiated between a potential new team here and a current NHL team. The ECHL BoG plays no role in it at all.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

210 said:


> An affiliation would be negotiated between a potential new team here and a current NHL team. The ECHL BoG plays no role in it at all.




There are affiliations to be had out there that are not the Bruins, though Rucker seems to be set with being independent initially then targeting the B's for a partnership.

Like I said I feel like they definitely could get it out of the gate, which would increase the stability of the new franchise exponentially right away IMO. Hope they are able to swing that.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

ItsNotDylan said:


> I have a gut feeling they're going to be tough granting the affiliation. Based on past teams folding and having issues with their home arena, the board is probably going to be looking to make sure everything's perfect. Same goes for the other expansion team whenever that gets granted, I'd imagine that would be even tougher to get since it's the last one.
> 
> I have no doubts that Cliff Rucker's ownership group won't get granted the expansion team. He's spent a ton of time and money not to get his application declined. I'm just hoping it's accepted next week and not delayed like the commissioner had mentioned that possibility in an interview a few weeks ago.




I don't believe Worcester or its fanbase wants to go down the independent road regardless of which league, wht happens if the E elects to require an NHL affiliation before granting the approved application, same thing the Ice Cats got away with in their initial 3 months before the Blues signed on.


----------



## royals119

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> I don't believe Worcester or its fanbase wants to go down the independent road regardless of which league, wht happens if the E elects to require an NHL affiliation before granting the approved application, same thing the Ice Cats got away with in their initial 3 months before the Blues signed on.




There has been no indication the ECHL will require an affiliation, and Worcester has submitted their application for consideration at the BOG meeting that is occurring this week. I can't imagine the league would impose a significant restriction like that at the last minute without making it part of the initial application process.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

If I were them I'd love to go independent. That way you can build your roster more to your liking.


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## 210

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> I don't believe Worcester or its fanbase wants to go down the independent road regardless of which league, wht happens if the E elects to require an NHL affiliation before granting the approved application, same thing the Ice Cats got away with in their initial 3 months before the Blues signed on.




You have no idea what the Worcester fan base wants or does not want.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

210 said:


> You have no idea what the Worcester fan base wants or does not want.




Everyone disregard anything HUTCH says, trust me, you'll thank me later.

The Worcester fan base wants hockey, that's what it boils down to. Independent or not, they want a team in the Centrum to root for.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

royals119 said:


> There has been no indication the ECHL will require an affiliation, and Worcester has submitted their application for consideration at the BOG meeting that is occurring this week. I can't imagine the league would impose a significant restriction like that at the last minute without making it part of the initial application process.




yes, they can do anything royals119, believe me, the way your league is trending is much the same way ours was when we imposed both the abolition of independents and the manditory rule to have an application w/ an NHL/AHL affiliation in place before ratification, wouldn't it mean Alaska, Colorado, and Wichita need affiliation agreements sooner than expanding and requiring new cities to apply.

dual affiliations are now gone in the ECHL, I'M afraid affiliations in order to operate and the days of independents are about to come to a screeching halt.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

GOOD luck

Worcester thinks it can lure Portland's D-League team to DCU if no hockey


----------



## royals119

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> yes, they can do anything royals119, believe me, the way your league is trending is much the same way ours was when we imposed both the abolition of independents and the manditory rule to have an application w/ an NHL/AHL affiliation in place before ratification, wouldn't it mean Alaska, Colorado, and Wichita need affiliation agreements sooner than expanding and requiring new cities to apply.
> 
> dual affiliations are now gone in the ECHL, I'M afraid affiliations in order to operate and the days of independents are about to come to a screeching halt.




With the elimination of dual affiliations and the stated goal of getting to 30 teams, it is obvious that they will likely end up with a one to one affiliation for all ECHL teams, and maybe even some restriction on calling up ECHL contracted players to non-affiliated AHL teams. However, your assertion that the league would make a last minute rule change and require Worcester to have an affiliation before being approved for a team is ridiculous. 

I do think the days of independent teams are numbered, but it likely will be a gradual transition as opposed to a screeching halt.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

royals119 said:


> With the elimination of dual affiliations and the stated goal of getting to 30 teams, it is obvious that they will likely end up with a one to one affiliation for all ECHL teams, and maybe even some restriction on calling up ECHL contracted players to non-affiliated AHL teams. However, your assertion that the league would make a last minute rule change and require Worcester to have an affiliation before being approved for a team is ridiculous.
> 
> I do think the days of independent teams are numbered, but it likely will be a gradual transition as opposed to a screeching halt.




YEA, I agree to a degree, but I'VE seen more changes tht can prevent a Worcester franchise and likely won't be either an independent or a Bruin-affiliated club, royals119, because Atlanta(Gwinnett) seems to serve BOS/PRO well and the genesis was that Renfroe,who owns PRO, WOULD own a prospective Worcester franchise, but it doesn't sound like Cliff Rucker sounds optimistic enough to land the expansion 
bid.

It sounds to me like the same scenario Boe tried 25 years ago when he acquired the Springfield Indians to become the Ice Cats, and then the way the Blues treated the WOR Market/fanbase when the Peoria fiasco blew up, Worcester's recovered from that with the Sharks, but everyone knew eventually the AHL Pacific would happen, just not as accelerated as it was.

the question is if duals no longer exist, how much longer will it be before the franchise requirement is approved and the independents are eliminated.


----------



## Avsrule2022

Sports Enthusiast said:


> If I were them I'd love to go independent. That way you can build your roster more to your liking.




The 3 independent teams are 13th, 26th and 28th (last) in the league in winning %. I just don't see an independent team winning a championship in this league ever again.


----------



## 210

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> GOOD luck
> 
> Worcester thinks it can lure Portland's D-League team to DCU if no hockey




Yes, the entire city of Worcester wants a team from a league hardly anyone knows exists in a sport virtually no one I know even cares about.


----------



## 210

royals119 said:


> I do think the days of independent teams are numbered, but it likely will be a gradual transition as opposed to a screeching halt.




The ECHL eventually wants 30/30/30...and will make it happen.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Avsrule2002 said:


> The 3 independent teams are 13th, 26th and 28th (last) in the league in winning %. I just don't see an independent team winning a championship in this league ever again.




Alaska has some new opponents. I think they could make it work after getting used to it. I don't really look at the overall standings because well at 13 you are probably a playoff team but they did something quirky last year and had top 4 teams in each division which is stupid IMO.


----------



## crimsonace

It's difficult for an independent to make it in the ECHL. The salary cap being as tight as it is, the 4-5 players that are assigned from the NHL are often among a team's better players, and not having those players means you're battling to fill those roster spots with the same free agent pool 27 other teams are battling to grab players from. 

Fort Wayne tried to go as an independent a couple of years ago - because that's what had been its M.O. since the Frankes bought the franchise in the 1990s and led the IHL's move to "AAAA" status full of independent teams made up of older players (which eventually killed the league, but I digress), and of course the UHL/CHL were independent leagues. Had a rough start in the ECHL, at least from what I remember in the newspaper, they went out of their way to blame the affiliation with Anaheim, went independent the next year and missed the playoffs ... and quickly grabbed an affiliation with the Avalanche, who supply 3-4 of their better players. 

An ECHL roster composition is basically this: 
4 vets - your studs/leaders/experience. Usually your 1-2 top scorers & top D pairing
4-5 players on AHL/NHL deals - talented young players who only eat up $525 of the salary cap a week (the league cap is set at an average of just over $600/player), and usually one NHL prospect goalie is in that mix. 
12 players on ECHL contract - players who are often pretty equally spread out amongst the league. 

It's hard to win without either of the top two, which is why it's difficult to win as an indie in the ECHL. It's also why the league has banned dual affiliations, as having *2* teams sending you 8-10 players can make a big difference.


----------



## JDogindy

210 said:


> Yes, the entire city of Worcester wants a team from a league hardly anyone knows exists in a sport virtually no one I know even cares about.




The D-League has actually gotten stronger in the past few years with now every team either owned by or closely tied to their NBA affiliate (the last independent team, Fort Wayne, was bought by Indiana late last year), and Maine is Boston's D-League team.

Still, I think the ECHL club is more likely to come.


----------



## 210

JDogindy said:


> The D-League has actually gotten stronger in the past few years with now every team either owned by or closely tied to their NBA affiliate (the last independent team, Fort Wayne, was bought by Indiana late last year), and Maine is Boston's D-League team.
> 
> Still, I think the ECHL club is more likely to come.




There is no interest from anyone here in having a D-League basketball team play in Worcester. Zero. None. Nada.

And, yes, I know this for a fact.


----------



## Woo Hockey

http://www.telegram.com/article/20160202/SPORTS/160209842/101360/NEWS

Rucker needs a three-quarters vote, 21 of the 28 franchises, to become an ECHL member. He’d really like the vote to be unanimous, but that would take some quick politicking since he has only seen one ECHL game in person and met one management group, the people who own the Orlando Solar Bears.

"If Worcester is in, Rucker will hold a press conference here to announce it on Monday. Scheduling that press conference will mean that his hopes of owning a professional hockey team did not go up in smoke."


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Lol unanimous or not who cares as long as you get in?

As for the NHL contracted guys yeah that might be true but they can also be the worst to deal with and pout if they are there or don't get there way.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

210 said:


> The ECHL eventually wants 30/30/30...and will make it happen.




They might but I don't think the NHL really cares as bad as the ECHL does so it might not mean much. 

The ECHL might wanna slow its role a bit. They have a couple questionable franchises that already exist.


----------



## crimsonace

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Lol unanimous or not who cares as long as you get in?
> 
> As for the NHL contracted guys yeah that might be true but they can also be the worst to deal with and pout if they are there or don't get there way.




The guys we've had in Indy have been great. Mostly rookies with something specific to work on coming from the AHL coaches, and getting ice time. All the ones we've had are obviously hoping to go to the next level, but they've had a pretty good sense of perspective while here. The teams we see a lot, the AHL-contracted players are usually their better players.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

ItsNotDylan said:


> http://www.telegram.com/article/20160202/SPORTS/160209842/101360/NEWS
> 
> Rucker needs a three-quarters vote, 21 of the 28 franchises, to become an ECHL member. Heâ€™d really like the vote to be unanimous, but that would take some quick politicking since he has only seen one ECHL game in person and met one management group, the people who own the Orlando Solar Bears.
> 
> "If Worcester is in, Rucker will hold a press conference here to announce it on Monday. Scheduling that press conference will mean that his hopes of owning a professional hockey team did not go up in smoke."




I like the chances. Probably not unanimous, but approval seems like a good bet.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

crimsonace said:


> The guys we've had in Indy have been great. Mostly rookies with something specific to work on coming from the AHL coaches, and getting ice time. All the ones we've had are obviously hoping to go to the next level, but they've had a pretty good sense of perspective while here. The teams we see a lot, the AHL-contracted players are usually their better players.




Its hit or miss. Guys who are sent down or go up and get sent back down tend to be the difficult ones. Usually not ones who have a two way but actually start down and never end up going up.


----------



## Woo Hockey

http://worcestermag.com/2016/02/03/40130/40130

Decision is expected Friday, Feb. 5, when the ECHLâ€™s Board of Governors meets. A â€œyayâ€ vote means hockey is back on in Worcester for 2017-18. A â€œnayâ€ vote keeps plans on ice, following the departure of the Worcester Sharks last year.

He said he does not want to fail the city of Worcester. Consider, then, the scheduled lineup for Mondayâ€™s shindig: Rucker, Worcester Regional Chamber of Commerce president and CEO Tim Murray, ECHL Commissioner Brian McKenna; City Manager Ed Augustus Jr., DCU General Manager Sandy Dunn; and a bevy of local and state lawmakers, business leaders and college athletic directors.

Maybe McKenna is on the list just in case, since if the ECHL does award a franchise to Worcester, youâ€™d want the commissioner on hand for the announcement. Or maybe Rucker knows something we donâ€™t.

Weâ€™ll find out Monday.

The event is scheduled for 11:30 a.m. to 1 p.m.


----------



## Woo Hockey




----------



## Woo Hockey

YouTube link of the video linked in the tweet above. For some reason Twitter didn't like the link.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

JDogindy said:


> The D-League has actually gotten stronger in the past few years with now every team either owned by or closely tied to their NBA affiliate (the last independent team, Fort Wayne, was bought by Indiana late last year), and Maine is Boston's D-League team.
> 
> Still, I think the ECHL club is more likely to come.




Don't care about the NBA but I crossed a game on TV a few weeks ago. It was the Lakers team. They were playing in a gym that looked like a summer league gym. There wasn't much attendance. Not sure how these teams could last unless an NBA team is willing to bleed red. Which I don't get. You don't even need that many guys for an NBA team. Its hard to justify needing a minor league of affiliation.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Per Charter TV3 Worcester's Andy Mattison - Sources say Worcester's bid unanimously approved!


----------



## BigBadBruin8

ItsNotDylan said:


> Per Charter TV3 Worcester's Andy Mattison - Sources say Worcester's bid unanimously approved!




That's great news. Unanimous it is lol. Great to have a team back at the Centrum sooner rather than later. Look forward to checking them out once they're back, and following along with their journey to get set up.


----------



## Avsrule2022

The nearly 18 month time period from now until inaugural puck drop can be a huge advantage. With that much time the new org should be able to hit the ground running. Congrats and good luck!


----------



## JDogindy

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Don't care about the NBA but I crossed a game on TV a few weeks ago. It was the Lakers team. They were playing in a gym that looked like a summer league gym. There wasn't much attendance. Not sure how these teams could last unless an NBA team is willing to bleed red. Which I don't get. You don't even need that many guys for an NBA team. Its hard to justify needing a minor league of affiliation.




The utilization of some of those teams, though, is head-scratching. The D-Fenders (Lakers affiliate) and Bakersfield Jam (Suns affiliate) all play in practice gyms (the Jam don't even sell game tickets! You must buy a season pass)), while some of the other teams (Reno, Fort Wayne, Grand Rapids, [Mississauga] Raptors 905) play in actual arenas.

But, part of the reason for the D-League is because most teams have a guy or two they want to develop, or keep fresh, and don't want to waste a spot on the bench, so they send him to their D-League team so he's doing something.

That said, on topic, good to hear that Worcester's been approved.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

As we can see here, intro press conference still scheduled:

http://www.telegram.com/article/20160205/SPORTS/160209449/101360/NEWS


Of note from the article:


> Rucker has yet to say what the name of Worcesterâ€™s team will be. He had initially trademarked â€œWhitehawks,â€ but was dissuaded from using that by a fan who noted that the white hawk is found in Central and South America. The owner of Worcesterâ€™s prospective new team has said that the name will have a strong connection to the cityâ€™s history.




I'm big on the name thing lol. A fan dissuaded him, wonder if that was anyone in here 

Will be interesting to see what they come up with, though I'm sure it won't be announced for a while anyway.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

I don't really like being that guy but I'm going to go ahead and be him right here:

This is a thread about Worcester, MA getting an ECHL team.

If you want to talk about the ****ing NBA D-League, or anything else not on the topic of a Worcester ECHL team, can you take it somewhere that's not here? That'd be great, thanks.

Good talk, see you out there.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

I guess we will see how well it works. Its not going grand in Norfolk, Manchester or Adirondack.


----------



## 210

Sports Enthusiast said:


> I guess we will see how well it works. Its not going grand in Norfolk, Manchester or Adirondack.




Hockey world was vastly different in the UHL days...to compare to now would be very silly.


----------



## Woo Hockey

BigBadBruin8 said:


> As we can see here, intro press conference still scheduled:
> 
> http://www.telegram.com/article/20160205/SPORTS/160209449/101360/NEWS
> 
> 
> Of note from the article:
> 
> 
> I'm big on the name thing lol. A fan dissuaded him, wonder if that was anyone in here
> 
> Will be interesting to see what they come up with, though I'm sure it won't be announced for a while anyway.




Might have seen something on our facebook page. We've been talking with a few of his people through there.


----------



## JackalsKnuckles

Waiting a year and a half to drop the puck could be a mixed bag for Worcester. It will be another season where fans will have found other ways to spend their time or money on other activities, but could build up the marketing efforts of the team and give time to build a fan base.

On the other hand, there may end up being less Northeast teams for Worcester to plan by then, thus making travel more expensive and prohibitive. I can easily see Elmira, Brampton, Adirondack gone by the end of this season, if not in another year. At that rate they could end up in the same division as Florida or Fort Wayne.


----------



## 210

JackalsKnuckles said:


> Waiting a year and a half to drop the puck could be a mixed bag for Worcester. It will be another season where fans will have found other ways to spend their time or money on other activities, but could build up the marketing efforts of the team and give time to build a fan base.
> 
> On the other hand, there may end up being less Northeast teams for Worcester to plan by then, thus making travel more expensive and prohibitive. I can easily see Elmira, Brampton, Adirondack gone by the end of this season, if not in another year. At that rate they could end up in the same division as Florida or Fort Wayne.




The ECHL suggests a full year leading up to starting, so a second year off was virtually guaranteed with the timing of the Worcester Sharks leaving...and playing in 16-17 wouldn't keep other teams from moving or folding so it's not like that's a determining factor in anything.


----------



## JackalsKnuckles

210 said:


> The ECHL suggests a full year leading up to starting, so a second year off was virtually guaranteed with the timing of the Worcester Sharks leaving...and playing in 16-17 wouldn't keep other teams from moving or folding so it's not like that's a determining factor in anything.





Certainly not a determining factor, but when a league folds around one or 2 franchises it puts them on an island and makes things tougher. Agreed that could happen even without the 1 year wait and Worcester has no control over this. The wait makes more sense, though, in cities that have not had hockey before, rather than a place like Worcester that has had teams for years. 

The suggestion of waiting a year was also obviously thrown out the window for teams that jumped down from the AHL this season.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

210 said:


> Hockey world was vastly different in the UHL days...to compare to now would be very silly.




It was better. We had two AAA leagues. Wish the IHL 1.0 could have lasted.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

ItsNotDylan said:


> Might have seen something on our facebook page. We've been talking with a few of his people through there.




Didn't realize you had a FB page, just liked it.



JackalsKnuckles said:


> Waiting a year and a half to drop the puck could be a mixed bag for Worcester. It will be another season where fans will have found other ways to spend their time or money on other activities, but could build up the marketing efforts of the team and give time to build a fan base.
> 
> On the other hand, there may end up being less Northeast teams for Worcester to plan by then, thus making travel more expensive and prohibitive. I can easily see Elmira, Brampton, Adirondack gone by the end of this season, if not in another year. At that rate they could end up in the same division as Florida or Fort Wayne.






210 said:


> The ECHL suggests a full year leading up to starting, so a second year off was virtually guaranteed with the timing of the Worcester Sharks leaving...and playing in 16-17 wouldn't keep other teams from moving or folding so it's not like that's a determining factor in anything.




I doubt we'll see that much movement in one off season. Anything could happen but for cities where they fold there will be other northeastern cities that could step up and fill a void too.

This ECHL team will also have the added benefit of being able to market east of 495 in MA, which is huge. The old AHL teams couldn't do that. Potential for a lot more people to be targeted with advertising.

And of course the potential Boston affiliation.


----------



## 210

JackalsKnuckles said:


> Certainly not a determining factor, but when a league folds around one or 2 franchises it puts them on an island and makes things tougher. Agreed that could happen even without the 1 year wait and Worcester has no control over this. The wait makes more sense, though, in cities that have not had hockey before, rather than a place like Worcester that has had teams for years.
> 
> The suggestion of waiting a year was also obviously thrown out the window for teams that jumped down from the AHL this season.




Had there been an ECHL ownership group waiting for this season there wouldn't have been a year wait here either as a front office would have already been in place, but because everyone involved here (including the San Jose Sharks) expect the western move to be for 16-17 there wasn't a rush to locate a person willing to go after an ECHL team for this season.

Once AHL-West happened there was no time to assemble a group, so two years dark for Worcester instead of none.


----------



## 210

BigBadBruin8 said:


> This ECHL team will also have the added benefit of being able to market east of 495 in MA, which is huge. The old AHL teams couldn't do that. Potential for a lot more people to be targeted with advertising.




Millbury was not in the Worcester Sharks territorial bubble. Think about how much that hampered their marketing...


----------



## 210

Sports Enthusiast said:


> It was better. We had two AAA leagues. Wish the IHL 1.0 could have lasted.




In the end the IHL tried to be an AAAA league, which is one of the major reasons why it failed.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

210 said:


> Millbury was not in the Worcester Sharks territorial bubble. Think about how much that hampered their marketing...




If Millbury wasn't in the territory then what was? Millbury? Really?


----------



## 210

BigBadBruin8 said:


> If Millbury wasn't in the territory then what was? Millbury? Really?




Yep, we saw P-Bruins adverts there and went to the WorSharks about it...we were told that Millbury was in Providence's bubble.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

210 said:


> Yep, we saw P-Bruins adverts there and went to the WorSharks about it...we were told that Millbury was in Providence's bubble.




Jesus H a town that BORDERS Worcester wasn't in their marketing territory. Incredible. Nice for Providence for it to be on 146 

You figure both Providence and Manchester are east or Worcester (and Lowell was too) so they had to have taken up all of EMass. And you had Springfield in WMass. Add in two CT teams and that's a real tight squeeze for AHL Worcester.

ECHL Worcester will have Manchester to compete with but the fact that they'll be able to go to surrounding territories and eastern areas will be huge for them. Whole different ballgame, and I think having that extra year will really allow them to properly take advantage of it.


----------



## 210

I have no idea what Worcester's actual territorial bubble will be in the ECHL, but I suspect probably stretches out further than they they'd want to go anyway.


----------



## crimsonace

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Jesus H a town that BORDERS Worcester wasn't in their marketing territory. Incredible. Nice for Providence for it to be on 146
> 
> You figure both Providence and Manchester are east or Worcester (and Lowell was too) so they had to have taken up all of EMass. And you had Springfield in WMass. Add in two CT teams and that's a real tight squeeze for AHL Worcester.
> 
> ECHL Worcester will have Manchester to compete with but the fact that they'll be able to go to surrounding territories and eastern areas will be huge for them. Whole different ballgame, and I think having that extra year will really allow them to properly take advantage of it.




And the Bruins' affiliation agreement with Atlanta ends after the 2016-17 season, which means it'll likely be available for Worcester to snag (which would make sense given its proximity to both Providence and Boston, from a marketing and player movement perspective).


----------



## BigBadBruin8

crimsonace said:


> And the Bruins' affiliation agreement with Atlanta ends after the 2016-17 season, which means it'll likely be available for Worcester to snag (which would make sense given its proximity to both Providence and Boston, from a marketing and player movement perspective).




Well let's hope. Even if they're independent for a year they should still be able to do fairly well with all the new marketing opportunities available to them.

Interested to see/hear from the press conference tomorrow.


----------



## 210

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Well let's hope. Even if they're independent for a year they should still be able to do fairly well with all the new marketing opportunities available to them.
> 
> Interested to see/hear from the press conference tomorrow.




I'll be tweeting some of the important stuff said...since you follow me you'll see it.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

210 said:


> I'll be tweeting some of the important stuff said...since you follow me you'll see it.




I will, and thanks for the follow


----------



## crimsonace

210 said:


> I'll be tweeting some of the important stuff said...since you follow me you'll see it.




What's your handle?


----------



## BigBadBruin8

crimsonace said:


> What's your handle?




His handle is @210Darryl


----------



## royals119

JackalsKnuckles said:


> . The wait makes more sense, though, in cities that have not had hockey before, rather than a place like Worcester that has had teams for years.
> 
> The suggestion of waiting a year was also obviously thrown out the window for teams that jumped down from the AHL this season.






210 said:


> Had there been an ECHL ownership group waiting for this season there wouldn't have been a year wait here either as a front office would have already been in place,




Exactly. The difference between Worcester and Manchester/Adirondack/Norfolk is that the other three kept their ownership group, staff, season ticket list, marketing, sponsor relationships, etc in place. Worcester is starting from scratch, without any of those things.


----------



## Woo Hockey




----------



## Woo Hockey

Article about the press conference, hasn't started just yet: http://www.telegram.com/article/20160208/NEWS/160209356

Website - http://worcesterprohockey.com/
Twitter - @woohockeyhc


----------



## BigBadBruin8

Officially back, great news.


----------



## Agalloch

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Officially back, great news.




I guess Norfolk will go in the 'North' division and Worcester will take their place in the East division with Manchester, Elmira, Adirondack and Reading.

Also, I expect the Bruins to be their parent team in 2017-18.

Curious to see which city will get the 30th team.


----------



## Woo Hockey

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Officially back, great news.




I hope 210 prepared his phone for all of these re-tweets we've been giving him


----------



## BigBadBruin8

ItsNotDylan said:


> I hope 210 prepared his phone for all of these re-tweets we've been giving him




Likely not lol


----------



## crimsonace

ItsNotDylan said:


> I hope 210 prepared his phone for all of these re-tweets we've been giving him




. I've been retweeting him a bit on our site, too (@IndyPuck, for those of you who care).


----------



## crimsonace

Agalloch said:


> I guess Norfolk will go in the 'North' division and Worcester will take their place in the East division with Manchester, Elmira, Adirondack and Reading.
> 
> Also, I expect the Bruins to be their parent team in 2017-18.
> 
> Curious to see which city will get the 30th team.




Other possibility is Elmira goes to the North. 

And my money's on Oklahoma City.


----------



## Woo Hockey

crimsonace said:


> . I've been retweeting him a bit on our site, too (@IndyPuck, for those of you who care).




You've just gained another follower


----------



## Woo Hockey

crimsonace said:


> Other possibility is Elmira goes to the North.
> 
> And my money's on Oklahoma City.




I'm willing to bet there will be a team or two that will end up folding or getting relocated. OKC will eventually join but I have a feeling there won't be a full 30 teams for a few more seasons.


----------



## crimsonace

ItsNotDylan said:


> I'm willing to bet there will be a team or two that will end up folding or getting relocated. OKC will eventually join but I have a feeling there won't be a full 30 teams for a few more seasons.




Brampton & Evansville/Owensboro are probably on the short list, although Owensboro will likely continue as long as Ron Geary wants to keep it. 

Peoria, if it ever wants to move up from the SPHL, is a no-brainer. There are a few other markets, too, that could be possibilities. Louisville is the largest city in this part of the country without hockey of any form right now, although there's no suitable ice (there could be - Louisville has 4 arenas that could handle a hockey team, 2 of which are next door to each other at the fairgrounds).


----------



## BigBadBruin8




----------



## BigBadBruin8

Looking at that it seems like the team would be the Worcester Railers, at least initially.


----------



## 210

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Likely not lol




I had to turn off notifications


----------



## Woo Hockey

Well at least we had Worcester trending on twitter for a while. Should've taken a picture of that.


----------



## WoostahRailahs

I guess I have another two months with this name before it's time for a switch...


----------



## Woo Hockey




----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

royals119 said:


> Exactly. The difference between Worcester and Manchester/Adirondack/Norfolk is that the other three kept their ownership group, staff, season ticket list, marketing, sponsor relationships, etc in place. Worcester is starting from scratch, without any of those things.




not exactly true,royals119:

Pacific Division rumblings began back in 2006, in the AHL, OR the same season as the Sharks landing in Worcester, tht's why Anaheim bought the AHL Norfolk franchise,tht is Bakersfield, and KY is leasing them from Edmonton.

Adirondack has always been an option,because CGY has owned their AHL Affiliate as far back as 1993 in Saint John, also Omaha, QC, AND Abbotsford,before last season in ADK.

Only Ontario/Manchester was a seemless transition,even after a championship.


----------



## MM658

crimsonace said:


> Brampton & Evansville/Owensboro are probably on the short list, although Owensboro will likely continue as long as Ron Geary wants to keep it.
> 
> Peoria, if it ever wants to move up from the SPHL, is a no-brainer. There are a few other markets, too, that could be possibilities. Louisville is the largest city in this part of the country without hockey of any form right now, although there's no suitable ice (there could be - Louisville has 4 arenas that could handle a hockey team, 2 of which are next door to each other at the fairgrounds).



The ECHL website has listed Reno, NV as a "future market" for a while, but I get the impression that might be wishful thinking more than anything that's confirmed. That page on their site has been updated as of today to include Worcester, BTW: http://www.echl.com/future-markets-s12362

On the question of territorial rights, I believe the AHL rule is basically "the host city plus 50 miles in any direction." When territories overlap, such as was the case with Providence and Worcester, my assumption is that whoever came first has the rights, and the newcomer must work out an agreement with them. Since Worcester, itself, was in Providence's territory, obviously Providence had to agree to that franchise being place in their "market," and the two franchises must have come to an agreement that any communities to the south along 146 still "belonged" to the P-Bruins. Just my assumption...


----------



## royals119

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> not exactly true,royals119:
> 
> Pacific Division rumblings began back in 2006, in the AHL, OR the same season as the Sharks landing in Worcester, tht's why Anaheim bought the AHL Norfolk franchise,tht is Bakersfield, and KY is leasing them from Edmonton.
> 
> Adirondack has always been an option,because CGY has owned their AHL Affiliate as far back as 1993 in Saint John, also Omaha, QC, AND Abbotsford,before last season in ADK.
> 
> Only Ontario/Manchester was a seemless transition,even after a championship.



My point was many of the pieces stayed in place in those cities, making it easy to get up and running with a new team without a year waiting period. For example: Ken Young owned the AHL Admirals - he is the president/governor for the ECHL admirals. He kept staff in place there, he kept his list of season ticket holders, he has relationships with sponsors from the AHL team that he was able to continue with the ECHL team, he had a lease in place, hockey operations staff, they kept the Admirals AHL assistant coach as the ECHL head coach. In Adirondack the AHL flames (owned by Calgary) were replaced by the ECHL Adirondack Thunder (owned by Calgary). They retained most of the front office staff, ticket reps, etc. They had their season ticket holder list, sponsor relationships, marketing, etc all in place and continuing from the AHL team. 

The Sharks organization did not choose to put an ECHL team in Worcester, so those staff people, contact lists, relationships, etc are not readily available to a new owner. Therefore it makes sense for him to take a year to hire staff, sign up season ticket holders, build relationships with sponsors, do community marketing, network with former Sharks fans through social media, etc prior to putting a team on the ice.


----------



## Scoutin1

crimsonace said:


> Other possibility is Elmira goes to the North.
> 
> And my money's on Oklahoma City.




The only way that will happen is if the OKC NBA franchise moves back to Seattle.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

royals119 said:


> My point was many of the pieces stayed in place in those cities, making it easy to get up and running with a new team without a year waiting period. For example: Ken Young owned the AHL Admirals - he is the president/governor for the ECHL admirals. He kept staff in place there, he kept his list of season ticket holders, he has relationships with sponsors from the AHL team that he was able to continue with the ECHL team, he had a lease in place, hockey operations staff, they kept the Admirals AHL assistant coach as the ECHL head coach. In Adirondack the AHL flames (owned by Calgary) were replaced by the ECHL Adirondack Thunder (owned by Calgary). They retained most of the front office staff, ticket reps, etc. They had their season ticket holder list, sponsor relationships, marketing, etc all in place and continuing from the AHL team.
> 
> The Sharks organization did not choose to put an ECHL team in Worcester, so those staff people, contact lists, relationships, etc are not readily available to a new owner. Therefore it makes sense for him to take a year to hire staff, sign up season ticket holders, build relationships with sponsors, do community marketing, network with former Sharks fans through social media, etc prior to putting a team on the ice.




not true, Worcester did it in 4 months when SJ Arrived there,royals119,and those were in place. check the Admirals site, the franchise was leased to KY, because Anaheim has never owned either an AHL/ECHL, YOU realize that when an NHL team owns its affiliate tht's a different model than wht Cliff Rucker is attempting here.

Rucker is recreating or trying to do the same thing tht Roy Boe started when the Ice Cats were shifted from Springfield to Worcester, and that's why the side deal that granted Springfield its current Falcons, Boe was approached by Bridgeport and by AHL Bylaw, had to cede Worcester to St. Louis (franchise now Utica).


----------



## 210

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> not true, Worcester did it in 4 months when SJ Arrived there,royals119,and those were in place. check the Admirals site, the franchise was leased to KY, because Anaheim has never owned either an AHL/ECHL, YOU realize that when an NHL team owns its affiliate tht's a different model than wht Cliff Rucker is attempting here.
> 
> Rucker is recreating or trying to do the same thing tht Roy Boe started when the Ice Cats were shifted from Springfield to Worcester, and that's why the side deal that granted Springfield its current Falcons, Boe was approached by Bridgeport and by AHL Bylaw, had to cede Worcester to St. Louis (franchise now Utica).




It was 10 months, not four, and hockey operations was just moved from Cleveland to Worcester. It was well into season one before the business side was close to settled.

And Boe wasn't approached by Bridgeport, he bailed on the IceCats and bought the Sound Tigers, forcing the Blues to purchase the team.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

The authority with which HUTCH says things that are COMPLETELY wrong always astounds me.


----------



## royals119

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> not true, Worcester did it in 4 months when SJ Arrived there,royals119,and those were in place. check the Admirals site, the franchise was leased to KY, because Anaheim has never owned either an AHL/ECHL, YOU realize that when an NHL team owns its affiliate tht's a different model than wht Cliff Rucker is attempting here.
> 
> Rucker is recreating or trying to do the same thing tht Roy Boe started when the Ice Cats were shifted from Springfield to Worcester, and that's why the side deal that granted Springfield its current Falcons, Boe was approached by Bridgeport and by AHL Bylaw, had to cede Worcester to St. Louis (franchise now Utica).



I still think you are missing the point of what I was saying. JackalsKnuckles raised the issue of why Worcester needs 18 months to get up and running, when Adirondack, Manchester, and Norfolk made the switch in just a few months. I was pointing out the differences between what Worcester is doing now, and what Norfolk, Manch, and Adirondack did last year. That is, the three teams last year had most of their business structure in place, the new Worcester owner is starting from nothing. 
What happened in other cities, or when Worcester had teams in the past doesn't matter. Who exactly owns the ECHL franchise that is currently in Norfolk isn't really pertinent. Young ran the old Admirals, and he runs the new Admirals, he has much of the same staff, he kept his season ticket holder information, his contacts for people that bought group tickets in the past, he has many of the same sponsors, etc etc.


----------



## Scoutin1

WoostahShaahks said:


> I guess I have another two months with this name before it's time for a switch...




I don't have anything add, but your user name is wicked awesome.


----------



## 210

Scoutin1 said:


> I don't have anything add, but your user name is wicked awesome.




She says it like she spelled it too.


----------



## Scoutin1

210 said:


> She says it like she spelled it too.




I love that accent!


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

royals119 said:


> I still think you are missing the point of what I was saying. JackalsKnuckles raised the issue of why Worcester needs 18 months to get up and running, when Adirondack, Manchester, and Norfolk made the switch in just a few months. I was pointing out the differences between what Worcester is doing now, and what Norfolk, Manch, and Adirondack did last year. That is, the three teams last year had most of their business structure in place, the new Worcester owner is starting from nothing.
> What happened in other cities, or when Worcester had teams in the past doesn't matter. Who exactly owns the ECHL franchise that is currently in Norfolk isn't really pertinent. Young ran the old Admirals, and he runs the new Admirals, he has much of the same staff, he kept his season ticket holder information, his contacts for people that bought group tickets in the past, he has many of the same sponsors, etc etc.




AGAIN,not true, 

Worcester did that once before, after St. Louis, royals119, I know and speak from experience, it took them a year + TO submit a bid, that's why 15/16 and 16/17 weren't realistic to set up the proposal/bid, no one was thrilled when Peoria media started crowing about acquiring the Ice Cats before tht season was even finished.

again, no one expected the creation of the AHL Pacific Division but nobody said it would've been this season,ALL AHL fans, were keenly aware of that since 2006, but had never gotten traction in the decade since Anaheim made those comments, and no one knew SJ/LA were in favor of that or were EDM/CGY and the two Texas teams would be roped literally into said divsion.


----------



## Woo Hockey

https://twitter.com/The_Woo_HC

Apparently they now have a second twitter... Not sure what the need for that is.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

ItsNotDylan said:


> https://twitter.com/The_Woo_HC
> 
> Apparently they now have a second twitter... Not sure what the need for that is.




You don't even need one!

No idea how that site stays open. Doesn't even turn a profit.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

I think that second twitter might be a fan one or something...

Anyway, looking forward to the name and logo reveal, interested to see if it is in fact Railers and what the crest might look like


----------



## Woo Hockey

BigBadBruin8 said:


> I think that second twitter might be a fan one or something...
> 
> Anyway, looking forward to the name and logo reveal, interested to see if it is in fact Railers and what the crest might look like




I was thinking it was someone else from their marketing team because their original account was retweeting some of their tweets and the new account retweeted some things who I believe runs the new one.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

What's the team nickname gunna be?


----------



## royals119

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> AGAIN,not true,
> 
> Worcester did that once before, after St. Louis, royals119, I know and speak from experience, it took them a year + TO submit a bid, that's why 15/16 and 16/17 weren't realistic to set up the proposal/bid, no one was thrilled when Peoria media started crowing about acquiring the Ice Cats before tht season was even finished.
> 
> again, no one expected the creation of the AHL Pacific Division but nobody said it would've been this season,ALL AHL fans, were keenly aware of that since 2006, but had never gotten traction in the decade since Anaheim made those comments, and no one knew SJ/LA were in favor of that or were EDM/CGY and the two Texas teams would be roped literally into said divsion.




Nevermind...


----------



## BigBadBruin8

Sports Enthusiast said:


> What's the team nickname gunna be?




Right now it looks like Worcester Railers though the FanFest on 4/3/16 will say for sure.


----------



## LadyStanley

http://www.wbjournal.com/article/20...worcester-hockey-needs-350k-from-corporations

Owner looking for $350k in corporate sponsorships


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Good luck with that...


----------



## 210

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Good luck with that...




Because you know how much the average ECHL team gets?


----------



## GarbageGoal

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Good luck with that...




Do you think he would have made the pitch if it was a completely unreachable and laughable figure?


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

GarbageGoal said:


> Do you think he would have made the pitch if it was a completely unreachable and laughable figure?




Thas a laughable figure. Sure a league like the NFL does it in its sleep but a AA team? Thats a lot of money for one town.


----------



## 210

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Thas a laughable figure. Sure a league like the NFL does it in its sleep but a AA team? Thats a lot of money for one town.




So, in other words, you have no idea how that number compares to other ECHL teams.


----------



## SemireliableSource

lol ... okay, SE.

It doesn't say whether or not the $350k is straight cash or with trade involved too. I would assume trade is involved because that's how this business works and if we're counting trade accounts, $350 is more than doable. Keep in mind stuff like team hospitals/team doctors/team dentists, sign makers, graphic artists, etc. all usually have mixed cash-trade deals and that stuff, especially medical services, gets pricey.


----------



## Woo Hockey

FrancoRussianAlaskan said:


> It doesn't say whether or not the $350k is straight cash or with trade involved too. I would assume trade is involved because that's how this business works and if we're counting trade accounts, $350 is more than doable. Keep in mind stuff like team hospitals/team doctors/team dentists, sign makers, graphic artists, etc. all usually have mixed cash-trade deals and that stuff, especially medical services, gets pricey.




When you put it that way 350k doesn't seem like that high of a goal.


----------



## crimsonace

ItsNotDylan said:


> When you put it that way 350k doesn't seem like that high of a goal.




It's very doable, especially once trade-outs (for example, there's always going to be a trade with a local hotel that will house the visiting teams OR a hotel chain that will provide rooms on the road in exchange for advertising, ads for medical services such as training staff, et al) are factored in.


----------



## LadyStanley

And don't forget the charter bus company for road trips.


----------



## Speed

Harvard Pilgrim Health Care and Hanover Insurance reached out to the team to forge partnerships before the team could even reach out to them. That's 2 large companies without even trying.


----------



## royals119

The Royals have digital sponsor packages up on their website. This is just advertising on the jumbotron and LED strips. They run from $1200-$4000 depending on location and frequency. Lots of small and large companies have bought in. From a State Farm agent, to the corner yogurt shop, to large health insurance companies and chains like Red Robin. 

Those packages are on top of the dasher board ads, traditional in arena signing, on ice ads, ads in the game night program and things like "the official dentist of the Royals" or "Royals power play, sponsored by Perfetto insurance". I'm sure that number came from the league, as a minimum number for a successful team.

I've heard team and league people say in the past you are looking for your major income from three sources. Sponsors, season tickets, and group sales. If they are shooting for a budget of $2 million, then $350,000 in sponsorships is reasonable 4000 tickets at $10 average per ticket x 36 games is $1.4mill, so that seems like a good ballpark number.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

210 said:


> So, in other words, you have no idea how that number compares to other ECHL teams.




I'm not the one who took something as written by someone else to try and make it mean what I want it to. I simply wrote good luck with that. (mod)


----------



## 210

Sports Enthusiast said:


> I'm not the one who took something as written by someone else to try and make it mean what I want it to. I simply wrote good luck with that. (mod)




And then your next post showed my interpretation of the post I quoted was correct.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Looks like the "Railers" name may be all but confirmed.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

Speed said:


> Harvard Pilgrim Health Care and Hanover Insurance reached out to the team to forge partnerships before the team could even reach out to them. That's 2 large companies without even trying.




Can't really overstate that. Those are huge deals and would make a dent in the $350K right away. Companies in the city are happy to have hockey back too.

Has been addressed but the $350K can be reached without a ton of trouble, especially when they have a whole extra season with which to work.

It seems some people in this thread think the ECHL is dumb yet continue to post about it anyway. Shame. Be nice if people who feel that way could manage to keep it to themselves while the rest of us talk about Worcester and their ECHL team.


----------



## Big Z Man 1990

The NHL is looking to expand to 32, and the AHL will likely follow suit. Here's what a potential 32-team ECHL could look like:

Eastern:
North:
Adirondack
Brampton
Cincinnati
Elmira
Manchester
Reading
Toledo
Worcester

South:
Atlanta
Florida
Greensboro*
Greenville
Norfolk
Orlando
South Carolina
Wheeling

Western:
Central:
Allen
Fort Wayne
Indy
Kalamazoo
Missouri
Quad City
Tulsa
Wichita

West:
Alaska
Albuquerque*
Colorado
Idaho
Portland*
Rapid City
Reno*
Utah

Some of the existing teams might not be around for when the ECHL goes to 32, but it's a thought.


----------



## crimsonace

I highly doubt a new Portland team displaces the very popular WHL team there.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Big Z Man 1990 said:


> The NHL is looking to expand to 32, and the AHL will likely follow suit. Here's what a potential 32-team ECHL could look like:
> 
> Eastern:
> North:
> Adirondack
> Brampton
> Cincinnati
> Elmira
> Manchester
> Reading
> Toledo
> Worcester
> 
> South:
> Atlanta
> Florida
> Greensboro*
> Greenville
> Norfolk
> Orlando
> South Carolina
> Wheeling
> 
> Western:
> Central:
> Allen
> Fort Wayne
> Indy
> Kalamazoo
> Missouri
> Quad City
> Tulsa
> Wichita
> 
> West:
> Alaska
> Albuquerque*
> Colorado
> Idaho
> Portland*
> Rapid City
> Reno*
> Utah
> 
> Some of the existing teams might not be around for when the ECHL goes to 32, but it's a thought.




the E has never survived w/ more than 31, and likely will not expand. do some research,ok, If there is no expansion, then nothing changes and all the E needs is one more to match the 2 higher leagues.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Full Press Conference Video


----------



## Woo Hockey

Owner: New Worcester hockey team wants 1,500 season-ticket holders

HC has 250+ Season tickets and $250k in corporate sponsorships


----------



## BigBadBruin8

LadyStanley said:


> http://www.wbjournal.com/article/20...worcester-hockey-needs-350k-from-corporations
> 
> Owner looking for $350k in corporate sponsorships






Sports Enthusiast said:


> *Good luck with that...*






ItsNotDylan said:


> Owner: New Worcester hockey team wants 1,500 season-ticket holders
> 
> HC has 250+ Season tickets and $250k in corporate sponsorships




Oh, weird, they've been at it for like two weeks and they already have $250,000 in sponsorships....

Also, Manchester has $1M in sponsorships, which Worcester wants to reach. Rucker says in that article he has another $500K potentially on the table....

Again, they've been at it for about two weeks.

Keep it coming...


----------



## Woo Hockey

https://trademarks.justia.com/869/14/worcester-86914996.html

Worcester Blast has been trademarked.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

ItsNotDylan said:


> https://trademarks.justia.com/869/14/worcester-86914996.html
> 
> Worcester Blast has been trademarked.




Well then....

JMO, but that's terrible. Like really, really terrible.

Worcester Railers is WAY better than Worcester Blast.

About a month to go til we see what it actually is, but I hope it's not that.


----------



## Woo Hockey

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Well then....
> 
> JMO, but that's terrible. Like really, really terrible.
> 
> Worcester Railers is WAY better than Worcester Blast.
> 
> About a month to go til we see what it actually is, but I hope it's not that.




These names keep getting worse. Not a fan of any of the trademarked names.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

ItsNotDylan said:


> These names keep getting worse. Not a fan of any of the trademarked names.




Railers was the only palatable one I've really seen. What's the list of all the trademarked names we've seen so far?

I mean I know a lot of us are kinda just hoping whatever this is, it's just a placeholder before the team is called the Bruins, but in the interim I don't want to have a team called the friggin Worcester Blast. No bueno.


----------



## Woo Hockey

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Railers was the only palatable one I've really seen. What's the list of all the trademarked names we've seen so far?
> 
> I mean I know a lot of us are kinda just hoping whatever this is, it's just a placeholder before the team is called the Bruins, but in the interim I don't want to have a team called the friggin Worcester Blast. No bueno.




Whitehawks
Railers
Blast

Rockets is also rumored to be a name they're thinking about, with the link to Worcester being Robert Goddard ("Father of Rocketry") being from Worcester and invented the liquid fueled rocket in Worcester. 

Rockets seems decent to me. I'd take it over the other names any day. Beginning to wonder if they're just trademarking names to keep a better name a secret until the real name is announced.


----------



## 210

ItsNotDylan said:


> Whitehawks
> Railers
> Blast
> 
> Rockets is also rumored to be a name they're thinking about, with the link to Worcester being Robert Goddard ("Father of Rocketry") being from Worcester and invented the liquid fueled rocket in Worcester.
> 
> Rockets seems decent to me. I'd take it over the other names any day. *Beginning to wonder if they're just trademarking names to keep a better name a secret until the real name is announced.*




Ya' think?


----------



## BigBadBruin8

ItsNotDylan said:


> Whitehawks
> Railers
> Blast
> 
> Rockets is also rumored to be a name they're thinking about, with the link to Worcester being Robert Goddard ("Father of Rocketry") being from Worcester and invented the liquid fueled rocket in Worcester.
> 
> Rockets seems decent to me. I'd take it over the other names any day. Beginning to wonder if they're just trademarking names to keep a better name a secret until the real name is announced.




I remember Whitehawks and how strange that one was too. For some reason I thought there was one more but I was mistaken.

Of those three Railers is probably the best, but it's the least of the evils. None particularly jump out at you.

Rockets is actually a great name for them IMO, as like you said there is a tie to the city as it relates to that name, which is something they are apparently looking for. Definitely better than the options on the table right now.

Also, if you eliminate Whitehawks (which seems to be done given that Rucker's reps mentioned they've backed off the name) you have two names very similar to names that already exist in the league: Railers (Wheeling Nailers) and Blast (Brampton Beast).

Let's hope they just go with Rockets at the end of the day, that's a good one.



210 said:


> Ya' think?




Has to be, which means they should have some fun with it and trademark some really really bad ones and funny ones too. Worcester Lake Rats like you mentioned 210, that would be a good one to lock down


----------



## 210

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Has to be, which means they should have some fun with it and trademark some really really bad ones and funny ones too. Worcester Lake Rats like you mentioned 210, that would be a good one to lock down




IT'S QUINSIGAMOND LAKE RATS!!!!!!!!1111


----------



## Woo Hockey

From our facebook:

Just having fun with team names - its just a non-binding fan voting survey. I'm going to set "IceCats" aside - we'll put the winner of this poll up against "IceCats" in a final survey https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/6W5FWN8


----------



## GarbageGoal

Let's be honest, you know it will be Tornados.....


----------



## Hurricane Ron

Now from the pun department... how about "Shires" as a nickname?

Sorry, couldn't resist.


----------



## 210

Hurricane Ron said:


> Now from the pun department... how about "Shires" as a nickname?
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist.




A couple people here mentioned it, and were only half joking...it's far from the worst I've heard.


----------



## 210

ECHL Worcester has brought back Mike Myers, who was the WorSharks Business and Community guy to do the same job for the ECHL team. This is a big hire for the organization. Myers is going to shine without having to deal with bosses 3K miles away who never got this market.


----------



## Woo Hockey

210 said:


> ECHL Worcester has brought back Mike Myers, who was the WorSharks Business and Community guy to do the same job for the ECHL team. This is a big hire for the organization. Myers is going to shine without having to deal with bosses 3K miles away who never got this market.




I wonder if anyone else who didn't get moved to San Jose is still around.


----------



## offkilter

So no Worcester Wasp then?


----------



## Woo Hockey

offkilter said:


> So no Worcester Wasp then?




Ehhhh


----------



## 210

ItsNotDylan said:


> I wonder if anyone else who didn't get moved to San Jose is still around.




Not many I want to see return.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Hurricane Ron said:


> Now from the pun department... how about "Shires" as a nickname?
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist.




Shires is a truncated abbreviation for Shiretowners (Houlton, ME)


----------



## 210

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> Shires is a truncated abbreviation for Shiretowners (Houlton, ME)




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shire


----------



## offkilter

210 said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shire




HOBBITISES! SHIRE! Baggins! Aghhhhhh!


----------



## Woo Hockey

210 said:


> ECHL Worcester has brought back Mike Myers, who was the WorSharks Business and Community guy to do the same job for the ECHL team. This is a big hire for the organization. Myers is going to shine without having to deal with bosses 3K miles away who never got this market.




WNT's Coverage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUuKy4bg7_M


----------



## Woo Hockey

President and Owner of Woo Pro Hockey HC have been attending ECHL games scouting the competition.

We might be going up to the Adirondack / Reading game this weekend up at Lake Placid.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

That pullover Rucker is wearing right there is something else...


----------



## Disengage

BigBadBruin8 said:


> That pullover Rucker is wearing right there is something else...




Put buttons on it and it would make a lovely blouse


----------



## Woo Hockey

Worcester Telegram and Gazette: ECHL in Worcester: Organization's hire of Mike Myers a boost for team, city


----------



## Woo Hockey

"Boston Bruins Teammates" hmm


----------



## BigBadBruin8

Interesting choice of words...

I am curious to see what they mascot and logo will be, and maybe they'll have some other info they can share with us.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Good interview, plenty of new info here.


----------



## 210

ItsNotDylan said:


> Good interview, plenty of new info here.




OK, since you have failed multiple times to post YouTube videos, a quick tutorial for you.

1) Click the YouTube button. It will then add the "YT" vBulletin tag.

2) Paste just the numerical information from the URL of the YouTube video between the tags. Do not place the entire URL, nor add any other vBulletin code. The numerical information from the URL of the YouTube video is what I have placed in bold below.


Code:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[B]0e29vn2pCHA[/B]


3) Press "Submit Reply"


----------



## Woo Hockey

210 said:


> OK, since you have failed multiple times to post YouTube videos, a quick tutorial for you.
> 
> 1) Click the YouTube button. It will then add the "YT" vBulletin tag.
> 
> 2) Paste just the numerical information from the URL of the YouTube video between the tags. Do not place the entire URL, nor add any other vBulletin code. The numerical information from the URL of the YouTube video is what I have placed in bold below.
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[B]0e29vn2pCHA[/B]
> 
> 
> 3) Press "Submit Reply"





Thanks. 

I'm used to another site that just uses MyBB which uses the full URL.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Worcester Magazine - A Hockey Lifer: Toby Oâ€™Brien brings 40 years of passion, knowledge to Worcester

 Worcester Telegram - What's in a name? Worcester's new ECHL franchise has plenty to consider


----------



## Captain Crash

And Worcester Railers HC it is. Bit of a Euro vibe to that, eh?






http://thesinbin.net/new-worcester-ma-franchise-unveils-name-crest/


----------



## BigBadBruin8

I like it. Nice crest, good colors. Overall a positive for sure.

I mean I still want the team to be the Worcester Bruins eventually but for perhaps a year or two, Worcester Railers will do nicely.


----------



## offkilter

Makes me want to crack open a Coors light and listen to love train.


----------



## wildthing202

Seems a bit too close to Wheeling Nailers for my liking.


----------



## crimsonace

wildthing202 said:


> Seems a bit too close to Wheeling Nailers for my liking.




This is a reason why I, as a PA announcer, only refer to the visiting team by its city name (and the home team by its nickname). 

Indy's USHL team was known as the "Ice," and so when we played Evansville last year, one of my off-ice official friends said, "that's going to be hard for you, making sure you use 'IceMen' for the visiting team." No problem - they're Evansville on every reference.


----------



## crimsonace

BigBadBruin8 said:


> I like it. Nice crest, good colors. Overall a positive for sure.
> 
> I mean I still want the team to be the Worcester Bruins eventually but for perhaps a year or two, Worcester Railers will do nicely.




As a neutral, I like it. Of course, I'm from a family of railroaders, so I tend to like the train-themed stuff. But a really good crest & I love the color scheme. Should create some good sweaters & secondary logo possibilities. Also, the goal horn could be awesome.


----------



## 210

BigBadBruin8 said:


> I like it. Nice crest, good colors. Overall a positive for sure.
> 
> I mean I still want the team to be the Worcester Bruins eventually but for perhaps a year or two, Worcester Railers will do nicely.




I'm willing to bet that under this ownership group "Worcester Bruins" will never happen.


----------



## 210

crimsonace said:


> As a neutral, I like it. Of course, I'm from a family of railroaders, so I tend to like the train-themed stuff. But a really good crest & I love the color scheme. Should create some good sweaters & secondary logo possibilities.




The logo really popped on the small amount of merchandise they had available, and on the banner that was hung at the DCU. I think it's going to work out great.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Got a video of Cliff speaking and the name reveal. Should be up in a bit.


----------



## Woo Hockey

BigBadBruin8 said:


> I like it. Nice crest, good colors. Overall a positive for sure.
> 
> I mean I still want the team to be the Worcester Bruins eventually but for perhaps a year or two, Worcester Railers will do nicely.




The ownership group wants the team to be "Worcester" centric. The Worcester Bruins name likely won't ever happen unless the team ever gets sold.


----------



## BigBadBruin8

210 said:


> I'm willing to bet that under this ownership group "Worcester Bruins" will never happen.






ItsNotDylan said:


> The ownership group wants the team to be "Worcester" centric. The Worcester Bruins name likely won't ever happen unless the team ever gets sold.




That may very well be the case, I wouldn't be totally surprised by that.

Personally I think that should they gain the Bruins affiliation they would be making a mistake not branding that way, but that's just my opinion.

I'll support the team either way, I like having minor league hockey back close by.


----------



## 210

ItsNotDylan said:


> Got a video of Cliff speaking and the name reveal. Should be up in a bit.




Oddly enough, Rucker speaking was the "weakest" part of the afternoon...his story went on a tad too long.


----------



## 210

crimsonace said:


> Also, the goal horn could be awesome.




I joked about that today with a few folks. It has the potential to be glorious...


----------



## Woo Hockey

210 said:


> Oddly enough, Rucker speaking was the "weakest" part of the afternoon...his story went on a tad too long.




It was.

My phone only allowed me to record for 10 minutes and his entire speech and the video reveal was exactly 10 minutes. Happy I was able to get that.


----------



## Woo Hockey

offkilter said:


> Makes me want to crack open a Coors light and listen to love train.




Coors Light would be awesome for a sponsor btw.


----------



## 210

ItsNotDylan said:


> Coors Light would be awesome for a sponsor btw.




They got Bud already...not sure if teams do multiple beer sponsors.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Video will be here once it's done processing.


----------



## toledo109

Besides the love train vibe, the new logo ironically look like the old Chicago Express. Worcester logo looks better though and the mountain idea is nice.


----------



## ADKthunderFan34

*New ECHL team named Worcester Railers*

New ECHL team in Worcester Mass to be called the Worcester Railers. Team name and logo were announced Sunday at a fan fest at Worcesters DCU Center. Team begins play in 2017-18 and will likely be in a division with Adirondack, Manchester, Brampton and Elmira.

*Link Below to article*

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2016/04/worcesters_new_hockey_team_nam.html


----------



## BigBadBruin8

toledo109 said:


> Besides the love train vibe, the new logo ironically look like the old Chicago Express. Worcester logo looks better though and the mountain idea is nice.




The "mountains" are Worcester's Seven Hills, though they look particularly snow-capped and cold lol


----------



## Danbury102

Great name!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=railer&defid=3635468


----------



## 210

BigBadBruin8 said:


> The "mountains" are Worcester's Seven Hills, though they look *particularly snow-capped and cold* lol




Very fitting for today.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Weak sauce name. The train thing is mad over done.


----------



## 210

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Weak sauce name. The train thing is mad over done.




I would have been worried had you liked it. Now that you've posted something disagreeable about the name now I know it's perfect.


----------



## Woo Hockey

“We’re going to look for the best affiliations. A NHL affiliation has to really understand and work in the ECHL, some do and some don’t. I don’t care if they are the Boston Bruins, Florida Panthers, Chicago Blackhawks, or the LA Kings. If they’re going to be good to Worcester, that’s what I’m concerned about. If they’re going to help be a partner in what we’re doing, that’s all that matters. I care about Worcester and what’s good for Worcester. Whoever’s the best that’s going to be, that’s who’s going to be here.”

(Interview begins around the 4:00 mark)

http://pbruinsthisweek.libsyn.com/4516-toby-obrien


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

Good luck with that. 99.9% of them don't care.


----------



## ADKthunderFan34

Why the railers. We already have the nailers, and who will be their affiliate??


----------



## ADKthunderFan34

Also i think the goal horn will be great. Maybe something similar to the Winnipeg Jets/Manitoba Moose goal horn.


----------



## 210

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Good luck with that. 99.9% of them don't care.




99.9% of who don't care about what?


----------



## BigBadBruin8

210 said:


> 99.9% of who don't care about what?




99.9% of posters named 'Sports Enthusiast' of hfboards dot com don't care about Worcester's ECHL franchise, yet counter-intuitively post about said franchise non-stop in an exceptional effort to be a huge downer.


----------



## GarbageGoal

Not here to be liked, wondering why they're here.....


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

GarbageGoal said:


> Not here to be liked, wondering why they're here.....




Discussion board....discussion.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

210 said:


> 99.9% of who don't care about what?




Top league teams caring about a team at this level.


----------



## Avsrule2022

Sports Enthusiast said:


> Top league teams caring about a team at this level.




San Jose does. And they don't even own their ECHL afilliate. A few others care as well. Trending more in that direction. We'll see. And if not, who cares?


----------



## 210

Avsrule2002 said:


> San Jose does. And they don't even own their ECHL afilliate. A few others care as well. Trending more in that direction. We'll see. And if not, who cares?




LA Kings care about their ECHL affiliate too...


----------



## crimsonace

NYI has had 10-12 players in Missouri all year. They certainly care.


----------



## JackalsKnuckles

crimsonace said:


> NYI has had 10-12 players in Missouri all year. They certainly care.




But do they care about what is best for the Mavericks or the Islanders? Surely it is the latter. This is the problem with the ECHL.


----------



## 210

JackalsKnuckles said:


> But do they care about what is best for the Mavericks or the Islanders? Surely it is the latter. This is the problem with the ECHL.




That's a silly question to ask, because in any sport a major league club _ALWAYS_ cares about themselves more than any minor league club.

The premise was they don't care at all, and it took five hours to come up with three NHL teams that care at some level about their ECHL affiliate.


----------



## JackalsKnuckles

210 said:


> That's a silly question to ask, because in any sport a major league club _ALWAYS_ cares about themselves more than any minor league club.
> 
> The premise was they don't care at all, and it took five hours to come up with three NHL teams that care at some level about their ECHL affiliate.




There doesn't seem to be much benefit to the fans of the teams with the affiliation though, regardless of the level of concern from the parent club.


----------



## 210

JackalsKnuckles said:


> There doesn't seem to be much benefit to the fans of the teams with the affiliation though, regardless of the level of concern from the parent club.




Really? Of the three teams mentioned:
San Jose...Allen Americans, 4th in the West this season, Kelly Cup champs last season.
LA Kings...Manchester Monarchs, 3rd in the East. Ontario Reign were 3rd in west
Islanders...Missouri Mavericks, regular season champions this season after the Islanders saw the light and started paying attention to their ECHL affiliate.


----------



## royals119

JackalsKnuckles said:


> There doesn't seem to be much benefit to the fans of the teams with the affiliation though, regardless of the level of concern from the parent club.



Better players for cheaper prices is one benefit. Without the affiliation ECHL teams wouldn't be able to sign the same caliber of players, or they would have to spend a lot more money to do it, and then they'd have to raise prices to cover those costs. Without the chance to more up, many of these players would go to Europe, or stop playing altogether, rather than riding busses for $400 a week.

Seeing players early in their career who go on to bigger and better things is another benefit. You may value it less, others may value it more. In the past it was pretty rare, but it is becoming more common. Some teams do better than others, and it happens for goalies more than skaters just due to numbers, but I'm seeing more and more of it. I still follow the careers of former Royals like Antoine Roussel in Dallas, and Jon Quick in LA. Also guys like David Desharnais in Montreal who played in Cincy against the Royals. When I go to an AHL game I often recognize a half dozen players or more on each team from the ECHL - either former Royals, or guys who played against the Royals.


----------



## crimsonace

royals119 said:


> Better players for cheaper prices is one benefit. Without the affiliation ECHL teams wouldn't be able to sign the same caliber of players, or they would have to spend a lot more money to do it, and then they'd have to raise prices to cover those costs. Without the chance to more up, many of these players would go to Europe, or stop playing altogether, rather than riding busses for $400 a week.




Better players & cheap prices. The salary cap is about $625/week per player average, an AHL player costs $575 flat against the cap, and those players are generally the most skilled. The Blackhawks have usually given us a forward, two defensemen & a goalie in Indy - and they're a team that doesn't use the ECHL team much. But the 2 D are usually two of the team's top players at the end of the year, the forward we had this year was probably the most highly-skilled player on the roster and the goalie on any ECHL team is often a project & developing, but likely the one most likely to get to the NHL. 

Colorado has stocked Fort Wayne pretty well this year - and they won the division. Detroit has generally been pretty good to Toledo, and Cincinnati has used a dual affiliation (either officially or unofficially this year, getting players from CBJ "unofficially") for years to be pretty successful. Adirondack also had a really good year with an unofficial dual affiliation getting players from both CGY & NJ. And, watching Missouri & Fort Wayne (when they have a lot of AHL players on the roster), the teams stocked with AHL talent are generally more skilled, faster & more creative. That's not a knock on the ECHL teams, but if I'm an independent like Wichita and have to compete with 27 other teams to sign 18 players to fill ECHL roster spots, and Missouri (for example) has to only sign 8 because it's getting 12 from the Islanders/Bridgeport, Missouri has a distinct advantage. A little more cap space & their 8 players (most of whom are probably 3rd-line/3rd-pairing guys) will probably be as good as my top 8.


----------



## crimsonace

royals119 said:


> Seeing players early in their career who go on to bigger and better things is another benefit. You may value it less, others may value it more. In the past it was pretty rare, but it is becoming more common. Some teams do better than others, and it happens for goalies more than skaters just due to numbers, but I'm seeing more and more of it.




Maybe it's because I'm in a major league market with a Triple-A baseball team, but I always want to see players who are going somewhere if I'm watching a sub-major league game - whether it be a high school basketball game stocked with top prospects or a Triple-A baseball game with a lot of future (and ex) Major Leaguers. Same with hockey - I follow the careers of guys who played both for our USHL junior team and against it into the NHL (and a lot of those guys in the ECHL now) - and pay extra attention when watching NHL games and seeing players I saw play in the ECHL last year. Byron Froese, for example, was in Cincy for much of last season and played a lot in Toronto this year. 

A few players who stick around and form a core for about 3 years (any longer than that generally doesn't happen in minor pro sports - when Indy was in the independent CHL, Bernie John was only one player on the opening night roster who was around in the final game 5 years later, and I believe he's the only player from the Year 2 roster who made it to the fifth year ... he is now coaching the ECHL team) mixed in with NHL teams' development players gaining experience and ice time is a really good mix. ECHL is by far the best place to enjoy both of those - AHL teams are generally developing prospects for the NHL team, see substantial roster turnover year-over-year (much like a junior team) and winning is secondary to development. In the ECHL, development is certainly paramount, but the local team has more control over the roster and winning is a priority.


----------



## Woo Hockey




----------



## Sports Enthusiast

210 said:


> Really? Of the three teams mentioned:
> San Jose...Allen Americans, 4th in the West this season, Kelly Cup champs last season.
> LA Kings...Manchester Monarchs, 3rd in the East. Ontario Reign were 3rd in west
> Islanders...Missouri Mavericks, regular season champions this season after the Islanders saw the light and started paying attention to their ECHL affiliate.




I don't know if one necessarily equates to the other. Isn't Marty coaching in Allen? I'm guessing he still builds his teams "his way" although by now a lot of his long timers are probably done. Minor league rosters change so much off season to off season. .


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

royals119 said:


> Better players for cheaper prices is one benefit. Without the affiliation ECHL teams wouldn't be able to sign the same caliber of players, or they would have to spend a lot more money to do it, and then they'd have to raise prices to cover those costs. Without the chance to more up, many of these players would go to Europe, or stop playing altogether, rather than riding busses for $400 a week.
> 
> Seeing players early in their career who go on to bigger and better things is another benefit. You may value it less, others may value it more. In the past it was pretty rare, but it is becoming more common. Some teams do better than others, and it happens for goalies more than skaters just due to numbers, but I'm seeing more and more of it. I still follow the careers of former Royals like Antoine Roussel in Dallas, and Jon Quick in LA. Also guys like David Desharnais in Montreal who played in Cincy against the Royals. When I go to an AHL game I often recognize a half dozen players or more on each team from the ECHL - either former Royals, or guys who played against the Royals.




It was cute for awhile when it wasn't common but now I think that novelty for me has worn off. I think I heard 15 players on the jackals this year had some form of AHL experience. I honestly don't care too much what happens to guys when they leave. I mean good for them in whatever happens but they have no direct value to me playing elsewhere. I can see how this is different for different people though. I just think its hard to sell that to people who have seen when minor league hockey in most cases was at its best. Before affiliations really got involved and ruined what AA was. Rivalries and intensity and continuity. Watching guys play for the team instead of their "careers" was better. Atleast you knew with the older guys that they cared and they were still playing because they love it. Now brats like a Tyler Donati who just expect to be at the top are far more common. These kids just expect things. The product has suffered. Guys don't even hit much anymore.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

crimsonace said:


> NYI has had 10-12 players in Missouri all year. They certainly care.




Bold prediction for you. I don't watch or care about the NHL but I bet that none of those 10-12 will play in the big league. Except for maybe goalie, the ECHL is nothing but a place to stash your remaining contracts that aren't good enough in the present for the AHL but need to still play for god knows whatever reason.


----------



## crimsonace

Sports Enthusiast said:


> I don't know if one necessarily equates to the other. Isn't Marty coaching in Allen? I'm guessing he still builds his teams "his way" although by now a lot of his long timers are probably done. Minor league rosters change so much off season to off season. .




That has been the case for years, especially at the "AA" level, affiliated or unaffiliated. It's rare to see more than about three or four players stay with a team for more than 2 seasons. Again, small sample size, but the Indy Fuel have 3 players from their opening-night roster from 2014 on the team at the end of Year 2 (would've had a 4th had not been for an injury at the AHL level). The unaffiliated Indianapolis Ice had about 3 players make it from the opening night roster to the end of their second year in the "good old days" of the early 2000s. Roster turnover is a fact of life, affiliated or unaffiliated. 

And yes, a team stuffing 12 players in the ECHL like NYI does certainly means the NHL franchise either cares about the quality of play in its affiliate, or it wouldn't have signed enough players to stock 2.5 teams. They may be longshot prospects, but there's a reason Missouri was the best team in the league this year - it was the most talented team, and its best players were on NYI/Bridgeport contracts.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Worcester Sun Â» Canal District power play: Rucker partners in rink plans at PresMet site


----------



## 210

Sports Enthusiast said:


> I don't know if one necessarily equates to the other. Isn't Marty coaching in Allen? I'm guessing he still builds his teams "his way" although by now a lot of his long timers are probably done. Minor league rosters change so much off season to off season. .




You're moving the goalposts again. You said, combining two posts you made, that 99.9% of the top league teams don't care about a team at this level. 

We've come up with three NHL teams that care enough to the point of sending the ECHL team decent players. So that eliminates your premise as being correct.


----------



## crimsonace

210 said:


> You're moving the goalposts again. You said, combining two posts you made, that 99.9% of the top league teams don't care about a team at this level.
> 
> We've come up with three NHL teams that care enough to the point of sending the ECHL team decent players. So that eliminates your premise as being correct.




SE also says "minor league rosters change so much season to season," while also blasting "affiliated hockey" because of the lack of continuity from season to season.


----------



## Speed

crimsonace said:


> SE also says "minor league rosters change so much season to season," while also blasting "affiliated hockey" because of the lack of continuity from season to season.



I don't see the problem here..


----------



## Woo Hockey




----------



## Woo Hockey

Railers hockey club owner invests in rinks planned for Canal District


----------



## 210

ItsNotDylan said:


> Railers hockey club owner invests in rinks planned for Canal District




By the time Cliff is done he might own half the city.


----------



## Woo Hockey

210 said:


> By the time Cliff is done he might own half the city.




He's going to make Worcester great again.


----------



## Woo Hockey




----------



## 210

ItsNotDylan said:


>





Let me help you with that.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

crimsonace said:


> That has been the case for years, especially at the "AA" level, affiliated or unaffiliated. It's rare to see more than about three or four players stay with a team for more than 2 seasons. Again, small sample size, but the Indy Fuel have 3 players from their opening-night roster from 2014 on the team at the end of Year 2 (would've had a 4th had not been for an injury at the AHL level). The unaffiliated Indianapolis Ice had about 3 players make it from the opening night roster to the end of their second year in the "good old days" of the early 2000s. Roster turnover is a fact of life, affiliated or unaffiliated.
> 
> And yes, a team stuffing 12 players in the ECHL like NYI does certainly means the NHL franchise either cares about the quality of play in its affiliate, or it wouldn't have signed enough players to stock 2.5 teams. They may be longshot prospects, but there's a reason Missouri was the best team in the league this year - it was the most talented team, and its best players were on NYI/Bridgeport contracts.




Well you should look at your state rival the Komets over the years, UHL and IHL2.0 they always had a solid core.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

ItsNotDylan said:


> He's going to make Worcester great again.




So he's a Trump guy, ouch.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Sports Enthusiast said:


> So he's a Trump guy, ouch.




Not exactly.

That was being used in a literal form and with no real reference to what Trump's doing.

Cliff's getting involved in the community and giving back even though he's not from Worcester and his team hasn't even played a game yet. If you read the article I linked, he's investing 14 million dollars to help build a facility that will benefit Worcester's Hockey community (Colleges, Youth Groups, even then public and the Worcester Railers, too) which otherwise wouldn't be getting done due to a lack of funds available.

That's what's going to make Worcester literally great again. Worcester needs more people investing in the community and doing what they can. If he can do it, why can't any one else do their part and get involved that better's the community?


----------



## Woo Hockey

Aaron Nicodemus: Rucker's Railers are 'quadrupling down on Worcester'


----------



## WoostahRailahs

Sports Enthusiast said:


> So he's a Trump guy, ouch.




who hurt you?


----------



## Woo Hockey

PS: Screw Facebook and Twitter for not making pictures show up good on mobile devices


----------



## Woo Hockey




----------



## Woo Hockey

Rucker's Worcester Investment continues with charity fund


----------



## Woo Hockey




----------



## BigBadBruin8

The hockey jersey t-shirt they are giving away at the Bravehearts game this year, that thing looks mint, definitely going to have to try and procure one of those.


----------



## Woo Hockey




----------



## BigBadBruin8

Just saw that. Kind of a kick in the **** for this franchise and for Worcester, but O'Brien is a good guy, can't really bear him any ill will. Hopefully Myers is up to the task.


----------



## 210

I wasn't particularly happy with one guy in charge of both business and hockey operations. In the long run I think this is best for the team.


----------



## Woo Hockey

BigBadBruin8 said:


> Just saw that. Kind of a kick in the **** for this franchise and for Worcester, but O'Brien is a good guy, can't really bear him any ill will. Hopefully Myers is up to the task.




Yeah but it is what it is. 

O'Brien did pretty well getting the Railers name out there by doing interviews and such in the little amount of time he was with the organization. I'm just hoping Myers and any one else filling in the now vacant position can help keep the name out there while we wait for the puck to drop.

There's still plenty of time for more people to come along and changes can still be made to the staff.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Side Note/Rant:

One of my biggest pet peeves with how some things have been run with professional sports in Worcester is that there isn't that big of any media coverage doing enough to get any information about what's going on out there. Maybe it's just me but it seems you have to be searching for it or be on top of it to know what's going on. 

/endrant


----------



## 210

ItsNotDylan said:


> Side Note/Rant:
> 
> One of my biggest pet peeves with how some things have been run with professional sports in Worcester is that there isn't that big of any media coverage doing enough to get any information about what's going on out there. Maybe it's just me but it seems you have to be searching for it or be on top of it to know what's going on.
> 
> /endrant




The Telegram and WoMag do a decent job covering the local teams, and Charter's TV-3 covers them all the time. Exactly what are you looking for?


----------



## Woo Hockey

210 said:


> The Telegram and WoMag do a decent job covering the local teams, and Charter's TV-3 covers them all the time. Exactly what are you looking for?




It just seems to me like there could be more coverage to more people who aren't already engaged in these teams. Now that I'm writing this it's probably has nothing to do with what they're already doing and it's not really their responsibility in the first place.

In my eyes, The Telegram, WoMag, and MassLive have covered more on the Railers then they did when the Sharks were around and they've picked up more after the announcement that the Sharks were leaving. It seems the Worcester Sun gets their information out before any of the other outlets, and Charter TV3 has had live games and news updates for as long as I can remember. 

Anyways back to what I was thinking, there's a void that brings people in who are occasionally attend games. More people outside of the former IceCats / Sharks STHs, Boosters, and the fans who attend games every chance they get. There needs to be more engagement to bring these people in and I just have this feeling that history will repeat itself and there will be a dip in attendance after the first few seasons.

Am I just having a crazy thought or is there anything to this?


----------



## 210

You're looking for more coverage about a team that essentially doesn't exist yet. Think about that for a moment...


----------



## Woo Hockey




----------



## royals119

I wonder if they are going to curtain off the upper rows, or if they just aren't going to sell season tickets there, and just make them available for single game purchase?


----------



## Woo Hockey

royals119 said:


> I wonder if they are going to curtain off the upper rows, or if they just aren't going to sell season tickets there, and just make them available for single game purchase?




They will probably curtain off the upper rows and not sell season tickets for those rows until a majority of the other sections are filled. The only times they had those sections open were for when there was going to be a larger crowd.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Jamie Russell has a 69-63 record with 2 seasons of coaching the Elmira Jackals and has a 70-197-37 record in 8 seasons with Michigan State.


----------



## Nightsquad

ItsNotDylan said:


> Jamie Russell has a 69-63 record with 2 seasons of coaching the Elmira Jackals and has a 70-197-37 record in 8 seasons with Michigan State.





Named coach and the GM lol? Meet player and coach Reggie Dunlop. I don't know, very skeptical about this. How can any one person truly be tasked with General Manager duties, and fulfill all the responsibility that goes along with coaching?? We're not talking the FHL, or even the SPHL, we're talking a league that has evolved into a season long developmental league which plays an important role in the chain of development of pro hockey. Coaches should concern themselves with the coaching, the hockey operations side of things. GMs should only be tasked with finances of operating the team.


----------



## Avsrule2022

I would be willing to bet that more than half of the ECHL teams have a single person for Coach and GM. The Eagles have had it that way for 11 of their 14 years. Chris Stewart was President, GM and Coach.


----------



## 210

Avsrule2002 said:


> I would be willing to bet that more than half of the ECHL teams have a single person for Coach and GM. The Eagles have had it that way for 11 of their 14 years. Chris Stewart was President, GM and Coach.




Looking at Wiki, it appears that's not true...which I was a little surprised at. Only two teams have HC/GM specifically listed as one person (Allen and Worcester). 12 have no GM listed at all. The rest all have different GM and HC listings.


----------



## Speed

Job titles are subjective. GM at one place and director of hockey ops can be one in the same. So yeah, half the league could be like that...


----------



## 210

Speed said:


> Job titles are subjective. GM at one place and director of hockey ops can be one in the same. So yeah, half the league could be like that...




As Speed was posting that I was chatting with him on Facebook as I went thought the ECHL media guide...it looks like it's nearly 50/50 on it being one person vs two.


----------



## wildcat48

Nightsquad said:


> Named coach and the GM lol? Meet player and coach Reggie Dunlop. I don't know, very skeptical about this. How can any one person truly be tasked with General Manager duties, and fulfill all the responsibility that goes along with coaching?? We're not talking the FHL, or even the SPHL, we're talking a league that has evolved into a season long developmental league which plays an important role in the chain of development of pro hockey. Coaches should concern themselves with the coaching, the hockey operations side of things. GMs should only be tasked with finances of operating the team.




You do realize that there have been people who have held the role of GM/Coach in the NHL? I don't really see what skeptical about it?


----------



## royals119

Speed said:


> Job titles are subjective. GM at one place and director of hockey ops can be one in the same. So yeah, half the league could be like that...




Exactly. Depends on how your define "GM". If you are talking about the job often done by the GM of a major league level team - scouting, negotiating contracts, deciding who will be on the roster, etc, that is almost always done by the coach in the ECHL. If you are talking about running the business side of the team (overseeing ticket sales, negotiating the arena lease, attending league meetings, hiring game day staff, deciding on merchandising, advertising, etc) that is normally someone else. They might be called President or some other title though. There might be a few coaches who have oversight of the whole operation, but even then they are going to have someone else under them who handles the day to day business tasks.


----------



## Nightsquad

wildcat48 said:


> You do realize that there have been people who have held the role of GM/Coach in the NHL? I don't really see what skeptical about it?




Skeptical yea because I think the two responsibilities are not one of the same. I think a coach shouldn't be burdened with all the "financial" or "front office" responsibilities that come along with a GM title. I get skeptical when I hear things like GM Coach or even player coach, especially at the developmental minor pro level. My concerns are an organization is trying to consolidate function as cost savings measure. Worcester already has one departure before the puck has even been dropped. I think northeast markets once home to AHL clubs opening up for the ECHL is a very good thing but Worcester's arrival has been interesting to date. The soccer like "HC" brand of the club, one front office departure already, and the owner earlier announcing what "he" needs from the business community to get things off the ground. 

For northeast cities formerly home to AHL team's owners need to realize and expect a year or maybe quite possibly two or three seasons of adjustments. I want to see the ECHL do well and be sustainable in places like Worcester, Portland, and Adirondack very much. I think having the ECHL All Star game in Adirondack will be a good way to league showcase from fans in nearby Worcester, Portland, and maybe fans in nearby Utica or Binghamton will make the short trip to catch some ECHL should the AHL depart their cities.


----------



## 210

Nightsquad said:


> Skeptical yea because I think the two responsibilities are not one of the same. I think a coach shouldn't be burdened with all the "financial" or "front office" responsibilities that come along with a GM title. I get skeptical when I hear things like GM Coach or even player coach, especially at the developmental minor pro level. My concerns are an organization is trying to consolidate function as cost savings measure. Worcester already has one departure before the puck has even been dropped. I think northeast markets once home to AHL clubs opening up for the ECHL is a very good thing but Worcester's arrival has been interesting to date. The soccer like "HC" brand of the club, one front office departure already, and the owner earlier announcing what "he" needs from the business community to get things off the ground.
> 
> For northeast cities formerly home to AHL team's owners need to realize and expect a year or maybe quite possibly two or three seasons of adjustments. I want to see the ECHL do well and be sustainable in places like Worcester, Portland, and Adirondack very much. I think having the ECHL All Star game in Adirondack will be a good way to league showcase from fans in nearby Worcester, Portland, and maybe fans in nearby Utica or Binghamton will make the short trip to catch some ECHL should the AHL depart their cities.




Not sure why you're harping about Toby leaving. He was going to be in charge of the business operations and be GM, which is something that would be a whole lot harder than just being GM and head coach.

The person who took over the business side of things when Toby left, Mike Myers, was the anchor of the Worcester Sharks business operations and is someone that local officials and business people here urged Cliff Rucker to hire long before Toby even thought of leaving. When you consider San Jose didn't give two craps about Worcester and gave the front office here no support the amount of positive impact Myers had for the businesses and community here was incredible. And now that Toby is gone Myers is showing why nearly everyone wanted him there.

So of you're going to talk about things that are happening here in Worcester you should take a few minutes and look into what's actually happening here.


----------



## wildthing202

http://www.telegram.com/sports/20160914/holy-cross-hockey-could-be-moving-to-hockey-east-dcu-center

Talks about the Railers a bit.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Nightsquad said:


> Named coach and the GM lol? Meet player and coach Reggie Dunlop. I don't know, very skeptical about this. How can any one person truly be tasked with General Manager duties, and fulfill all the responsibility that goes along with coaching?? We're not talking the FHL, or even the SPHL, we're talking a league that has evolved into a season long developmental league which plays an important role in the chain of development of pro hockey. Coaches should concern themselves with the coaching, the hockey operations side of things. GMs should only be tasked with finances of operating the team.




Having someone play two major roles like the coach and GM or like the example you gave of being coach and player isn't uncommon, especially in the Minor pro leagues like the ECHL or AHL. I'm pretty sure there's been a few player coaches in the NHL at one point. There's definitely some overlap between these positions and I don't think it's a dumb idea to be assigned a double position like that as it could make them do better at either position. 



Nightsquad said:


> Skeptical yea because I think the two responsibilities are not one of the same. I think a coach shouldn't be burdened with all the "financial" or "front office" responsibilities that come along with a GM title. I get skeptical when I hear things like GM Coach or even player coach, especially at the developmental minor pro level. *My concerns are an organization is trying to consolidate function as cost savings measure. Worcester already has one departure before the puck has even been dropped.* I think northeast markets once home to AHL clubs opening up for the ECHL is a very good thing but Worcester's arrival has been interesting to date. The soccer like "HC" brand of the club, one front office departure already, and the owner earlier announcing what "he" needs from the business community to get things off the ground.
> 
> For northeast cities formerly home to AHL team's owners need to realize and expect a year or maybe quite possibly two or three seasons of adjustments. I want to see the ECHL do well and be sustainable in places like Worcester, Portland, and Adirondack very much. I think having the ECHL All Star game in Adirondack will be a good way to league showcase from fans in nearby Worcester, Portland, and maybe fans in nearby Utica or Binghamton will make the short trip to catch some ECHL should the AHL depart their cities.




Departures within an organization shouldn't be that big of a deal unless there have been multiple people departing from the same position within a short period of time. Toby O'Brien's departure wasn't on bad terms and I recall him stating at one point that he'd eventually move up to a position within the NHL as that was his goal from the start. Hockey is a business and when you get a job offer in a bigger organization for a bigger role, you should take it. 

Going off on a tangent here but I've seen twitter interaction between the Former President and GM Toby O'Brien and the new Coach and GM Jamie Russell, I don't have any doubts that Toby played a role in landing Jamie Russell that position in Worcester. That just shows that even though Toby's going on to bigger things, he's not backing away from his words that he wants this team to succeed in Worcester.


----------



## Woo Hockey

wildthing202 said:


> http://www.telegram.com/sports/20160914/holy-cross-hockey-could-be-moving-to-hockey-east-dcu-center
> 
> Talks about the Railers a bit.




http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2125473

There's a discussion on that in the Boston Bruins forum. They don't seem to think it would work but there are 36 home games for ECHL teams and 18 for Hockey East. There could be some overlap but putting into account that you won't have both teams playing at home during the same weekends means people in Worcester will have something to do. We could see Friday nights for HC and Saturday nights for Railers, or even double headers on Saturdays. Some posters here seem to think they'll compete with each other.


----------



## Nightsquad

Yea see the talks of Worcester hosting a Holy Cross team in Hockey East is of great concern to an ECHL team which doesnt yet exist. Heck a Hockey East team sharing the same building of an existing AHL team would be of a concern. We see what it did to Lowell's AHL club, it probably is not helping Hartford's Wolfpack attendance either. Like it or not but NCAA DI college hockey alumni makes up roughly 30% or better of today's NHL players. Those numbers are not peanuts and when you consider NCAA DI teams are starting to call bigger and better buildings home and the fact they charge much cheaper ticket prices then many AHL or even ECHL teams the college hockey becomes a much better value. Especially in today's AHL where it's NHL development is a priority over winning at the minor league level. The beauty of college sports is that it's always the goal to win, win for the college community as well as civic pride for the cities they call home. Even Smallbany NY when they host the two nearby colleges of Union and RPI in Albany's downtown arena each year the game draws around 10,000 whereby Albany's AHL team seldom draws half of that on any given night of the season. I am very optimistic for the return of minor league hockey to Worcester and think the city would be a perfect fit for an ECHL northeastern footprint but the news of hockey east calling Worcester home bears watching cautiously.


----------



## Cyclones Rock

Nightsquad said:


> Skeptical yea because I think the two responsibilities are not one of the same. I think a coach shouldn't be burdened with all the "financial" or "front office" responsibilities that come along with a GM title.




Dual coach/GM is pretty standard in the ECHL and doesn't seem to have been much of an impediment to success.

Steve Martinson of Allen has won four consecutive AA Championships (the last 2 in the ECHL, prior 2 in the CHL) as coach/GM. When the Cincinnati Cyclones won their two Kelly Cups in 2008 and 2010, Chuck Weber was coach/GM.


----------



## CrazyEddie20

Cyclones Rock said:


> Dual coach/GM is pretty standard in the ECHL and doesn't seem to have been much of an impediment to success.
> 
> Steve Martinson of Allen has won four consecutive AA Championships (the last 2 in the ECHL, prior 2 in the CHL) as coach/GM. When the Cincinnati Cyclones won their two Kelly Cups in 2008 and 2010, Chuck Weber was coach/GM.




All of this is true, except that the CHL was not Class AA.


----------



## Speed

Nightsquad said:


> Yea see the talks of Worcester hosting a Holy Cross team in Hockey East is of great concern to an ECHL team which doesnt yet exist. Heck a Hockey East team sharing the same building of an existing AHL team would be of a concern. We *see what it did to Lowell's AHL club*, it probably is not helping Hartford's Wolfpack attendance either. Like it or not but NCAA DI college hockey alumni makes up roughly 30% or better of today's NHL players. Those numbers are not peanuts and when you consider NCAA DI teams are starting to call bigger and better buildings home and the fact they charge much cheaper ticket prices then many AHL or even ECHL teams the college hockey becomes a much better value. Especially in today's AHL where it's NHL development is a priority over winning at the minor league level. The beauty of college sports is that it's always the goal to win, win for the college community as well as civic pride for the cities they call home. Even Smallbany NY when they host the two nearby colleges of Union and RPI in Albany's downtown arena each year the game draws around 10,000 whereby Albany's AHL team seldom draws half of that on any given night of the season. I am very optimistic for the return of minor league hockey to Worcester and think the city would be a perfect fit for an ECHL northeastern footprint but the news of hockey east calling Worcester home bears watching cautiously.




LOL more like what the Devils did to Lowell's AHL club. It's not a big issue, there isn't much co-mingling between the pro and college fans in Worcester. Even with pro hockey being dark, not much of a bump in attendance, and there was a game at the DCU last year which 'announced' attendance was just over 1000. The draw would be from out of the area HE fans. We'll be like Baltimore, when the Red Sox come to visit.


----------



## Cyclones Rock

CrazyEddie20 said:


> All of this is true, except that the CHL was not Class AA.




Sure it was. While the ECHL was certainly a half step up from the CHL, the CHL was a lot closer to the ECHL in caliber of play than it was to the A level SPHL. CHL teams had some affiliations with AHL teams IIRC.


----------



## Speed

Possible update


----------



## wildthing202

http://www.telegram.com/sports/2016...ers-while-holy-cross-hockey-east-plot-futures

News update...


----------



## wildcat48

wildthing202 said:


> http://www.telegram.com/sports/2016...ers-while-holy-cross-hockey-east-plot-futures
> 
> News update...



Just the fact that this is even being brought up is mind-boggling. I would have never thought there was a remote possibility that Worcester's ECHL club would come to Maine nor would I have even expected it. Just Rucker saying it out loud leaves me shocked. *


----------



## 210

wildcat48 said:


> Just the fact that this is even being brought up is mind-boggling. I would have never thought there was a remote possibility that Worcester's ECHL club would come to Maine nor would I have even expected it. Just Rucker saying it out loud leaves me shocked. *




Rucker didn't actually say that. The editorial content around the quote makes it seem like his comments are about Portland, but it's really about shutting down in Worcester.


----------



## wildcat48

> Rucker is in Kansas City this week to attend the annual ECHL league meeting and said he did not want the future of his team to be a topic of discussion at the meeting, which is one reason he wanted to go public about his plans.
> 
> Staying here was not his only option. Rucker could have just shut down the team, for one thing, and Portland, Maine, is looking for a pro team to replace the AHL Pirates. They have moved to Springfield for the 2016-17 season.
> 
> â€œWhen the story broke, the thought crossed my mind. Iâ€™m not going to lie,â€ he responded to questions about the Portland option, or shutting down. â€œI was thinking about it, and I couldnâ€™t do it. Iâ€™ve already invested two years of my life in this.â€




The fact that Portland is even mention I found interesting.


----------



## 210

wildcat48 said:


> The fact that Portland is even mention I found interesting.




It was mentioned by Ballou, not Rucker. No idea why Ballou did that.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Recap of the event held tonight:

https://woo.hockey/2e10vrj

Jamie Russell, Mike Myers, and Cliff Rucker spoke at the event about the contributions the team has brought to the community and the businesses that have sponsored the team.

The team has $900,000 in corporate commitments, which is above more than half of every other ECHL team. The team has set a goal to be in the top 5% of teams in season ticket holders and in corporate commitments. The team wants anyone and everyone to be involved and by doing so, they will meet those goals.


----------



## wildthing202

http://www.telegram.com/news/20161014/game-changers-reveal-what-brought-them-to-worcester?start=2

Talks about why they went to Worcester and stuff.


----------



## 210

RailersHC hits 1000 season tickets

http://railershc.com/1086-2/


----------



## GarbageGoal

I know it's probably a ways off, but what are the chances Worcester games are broadcast on WTAG?


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

GarbageGoal said:


> I know it's probably a ways off, but what are the chances Worcester games are broadcast on WTAG?




Railers also got the same broadcaster back from the Sharks era, after a season w/ the Barracuda as Eric Lindquist returns as VP of marketing/communications, I'D LOVE to find out how SVSE allowed Lindqvist to exit the Sharks organization;

IT wouldn't shock anyone if WTAG Gets the call.

Russell's an interesting choice, too, knowing the drama off ice in Elmira didn't seem to affect the Jackals on ice.


----------



## 210

GarbageGoal said:


> I know it's probably a ways off, but what are the chances Worcester games are broadcast on WTAG?




They'd be the logical choice...


----------



## 210

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> I'D LOVE to find out how SVSE allowed Lindqvist to exit the Sharks organization;




Ummm....my guess is he said "I'm quitting" and they said "OK". It's not like they could stop him from quitting his job.


----------



## Woo Hockey

The logo on the jerseys look better than what I expected them to be.


----------



## mk80

Those are some good looking threads. The logo is not bad, I think the different look works well for them.


----------



## Cacciaguida

I hope they drop the HC, it's tacky and redundant.


----------



## 210

Cacciaguida said:


> I hope they drop the HC, it's tacky and redundant.




Feel free to drop them a line and tell them your opinion.


----------



## Cacciaguida

I bet they haven't heard that before _at all._


----------



## 210

Cacciaguida said:


> I bet they haven't heard that before _at all._




...and I bet they don't care.


----------



## wildthing202

http://www.telegram.com/news/20161215/bowditch-amp-dewey-sells-main-street-hq-to-railers-owner

I'm guessing the Railers are going to be around for a while.


----------



## Woo Hockey

wildthing202 said:


> http://www.telegram.com/news/20161215/bowditch-amp-dewey-sells-main-street-hq-to-railers-owner
> 
> I'm guessing the Railers are going to be around for a while.




Doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the Railers other than the owner of the team is owning that office. 

Sounds like the lawyer firm is staying there and Cliff is going to be renovating the building. The team isn't going to be facilitating the building as far as that article hints at.

But we'll see...


----------



## Cacciaguida

210 said:


> ...and I bet they don't care.




it's their branding, they should.


----------



## 210

Cacciaguida said:


> it's their branding, they should.




And it's going over huge here in Worcester. That's why they don't care one iota what non-locals think. The people expected to support the team are overwhelmingly positive about the way Railers HC is doing business.

Currently they rank in the top third of the ECHL in season tickets, and are top five in corporate sponsorship.

Not bad for an organization you think is "tacky and redundant".


----------



## Cacciaguida

if they did not have that support they might not have a franchise at all.

HC is redundant and will be ignored. People here are already calling them just the Railers.


----------



## 210

Cacciaguida said:


> if they did not have that support they might not have a franchise at all.
> 
> *HC is redundant and will be ignored. People here are already calling them just the Railers*.




You post that like it matters.


----------



## Captain Crash

Cacciaguida said:


> HC is redundant and will be ignored. People here are already calling them just the Railers.




Toronto should drop the "Maple" from their name too! Maple is redundant and will be ignored. People in Ontario are already calling them just the Leafs.


----------



## GarbageGoal

I was excited to hear hockey was back in Worcester but that HC stuff is a bridge too far.


----------



## 210

Y'all know the Montreal Canadiens are technically an "HC" too, right? 

Their actual name is "le Club de hockey Canadien". It's even their logo.

I guess they should change their name now, seeing as it's apparently "tacky and redundant" and "a bridge too far" (whatever the heck that means).


----------



## Woo Hockey

I love these posts complaining about the HC part of the name... I think we should always refer to the team as the HC. I don't see what the big deal is here. 

Where were these complaints 8 months ago when the name was announced?

HC!
HC!
HC!


----------



## Cacciaguida

210 said:


> Y'all know the Montreal Canadiens are technically an "HC" too, right?
> 
> Their actual name is "le Club de hockey Canadien". It's even their logo.
> 
> I guess they should change their name now, seeing as it's apparently "tacky and redundant" and "a bridge too far" (whatever the heck that means).




Nobody calls them 'le Club de hockey Canadien' anymore and you know that. It's Les Canadiens de MontrÃ©al

Why do you think that is?



Captain Crash said:


> Toronto should drop the "Maple" from their name too! Maple is redundant and will be ignored. People in Ontario are already calling them just the Leafs.




Look up the history of the name. That's like renaming the Blackhawks the Hawks. Try again.



Woo Hockey said:


> I love these posts complaining about the HC part of the name... I think we should always refer to the team as the HC. I don't see what the big deal is here.
> 
> Where were these complaints 8 months ago when the name was announced?




Swept aside temporarily because I was glad Worcester was getting a team again. The sentiment was still there.


----------



## 210

Cacciaguida said:


> Nobody calls them 'le Club de hockey Canadien' anymore and you know that. It's Les Canadiens de MontrÃ©al
> 
> Why do you think that is?




Which is the reason why you not liking it doesn't matter...call them whatever you want.


----------



## GarbageGoal

210 said:


> Y'all know the Montreal Canadiens are technically an "HC" too, right?
> 
> Their actual name is "le Club de hockey Canadien". It's even their logo.
> 
> I guess they should change their name now, seeing as it's apparently "tacky and redundant" *and "a bridge too far" (whatever the heck that means).*



*
*
Aw, man....210...._you_ of all people are better than this. 

Did _*I really need*_ *to add*



.....for you?


----------



## 210

I have no idea what you're referring to. Honest.


----------



## GarbageGoal

210 said:


> I have no idea what you're referring to. Honest.




That this....



GarbageGoal said:


> I was excited to hear hockey was back in Worcester but that HC stuff is a bridge too far.




....was pure sarcasm.

I really, really thought you'd be the one to get that.


----------



## Woo Hockey

http://www.telegram.com/sports/20161224/worcester-railers-steam-toward-full-echl-membership

"The agreement reads," Rucker said, "that our final approval is conditional on reaching two milestones - the 1,500 season tickets and the $250,000 in corporate pledges. We're around 1,100 in season tickets and about $800,000 in signed corporate pledges with handshake agreements on another $200,000, which is four times what we need.

"We've got a month, and I'm an optimist, but 1,500 season tickets is a little far away, so I don't think we're gonna make that. But I don't think it's going to be an issue. I think the league is pleased with our progress."

It is indeed. Worcester is expected to get full ECHL membership next month when the league meets at the All-Star Classic Jan. 17 and 18 in Glens Falls, New York.


----------



## Woo Hockey

One of my biggest pet peeves is that they're taking the number of memberships and using that number as the count for the season ticket number. They have multiple season tickets under a membership and those extras aren't being counted towards the total count. I'm sure there's a couple hundred of those memberships that have multiple tickets underneath it and for all we know they've actually reached that 1,500 mark.


----------



## 210

Woo Hockey said:


> One of my biggest pet peeves is that they're taking the number of memberships and using that number as the count for the season ticket number. They have multiple season tickets under a membership and those extras aren't being counted towards the total count. I'm sure there's a couple hundred of those memberships that have multiple tickets underneath it and for all we know they've actually reached that 1,500 mark.




Based on what I've been told, this is incorrect. If a member has more than one seat they're each counted separately. So while my membership number might be 12 (for example), your number could be 13 despite me having two seats. In the overall season ticket count, my two seats are counted individually.


----------



## Woo Hockey

210 said:


> Based on what I've been told, this is incorrect. If a member has more than one seat they're each counted separately. So while my membership number might be 12 (for example), your number could be 13 despite me having two seats. In the overall season ticket count, my two seats are counted individually.




Well the team uses the terms "season tickets" and "members" like they are the the same thing. On their site they list it as 1066 members and in the article it is "around 1,100 season tickets" which would make you think it would be the same count.

Perhaps they've done that to make it seem like they have less than they actually have.


----------



## 210

Woo Hockey said:


> Well the team uses the terms "season tickets" and "members" like they are the the same thing. On their site they list it as 1066 members and in the article it is "around 1,100 season tickets" which would make you think it would be the same count.
> 
> Perhaps they've done that to make it seem like they have less than they actually have.




They use "season tickets" and "members" like they are the same thing _because they are the same thing_. And there's no way they're under-reporting their number. Doing that would be against everything they've done before here.


----------



## Woo Hockey

http://railershc.com/worcester-rail...lly-becomes-eligible-for-2017-18-echl-season/


----------



## wildthing202

http://www.telegram.com/sports/20170118/worcester-railers-get-full-membership-in-echl


----------



## royals119

wildthing202 said:


> http://www.telegram.com/sports/20170118/worcester-railers-get-full-membership-in-echl




Nice article, but the map is out of date and the divisions are wrong. ECHL has four divisions this year, three with seven teams and the north with six. Unless something happens with the rumored Wichita to Albany move Worcester will slot into the north division with Manchester, Wheeling, Elmira, Reading, Adirondack and Brampton to create four seven team divisions. 

If that rumor turns out to be true Worcester will still be in the north along with Albany, and either Wheeling or Brampton switch to the central and we still have four seven team divisions.


----------



## Woo Hockey

royals119 said:


> Nice article, but the map is out of date and the divisions are wrong. ECHL has four divisions this year, three with seven teams and the north with six. Unless something happens with the rumored Wichita to Albany move Worcester will slot into the north division with Manchester, Wheeling, Elmira, Reading, Adirondack and Brampton to create four seven team divisions.
> 
> If that rumor turns out to be true Worcester will still be in the north along with Albany, and either Wheeling or Brampton switch to the central and we still have four seven team divisions.




That map was shared on social media and I'm surprised that this was the first time someone has pointed errors out on that.


----------



## Woo Hockey

royals119 said:


> Nice article, but the map is out of date and the divisions are wrong. ECHL has four divisions this year, three with seven teams and the north with six. Unless something happens with the rumored Wichita to Albany move Worcester will slot into the north division with Manchester, Wheeling, Elmira, Reading, Adirondack and Brampton to create four seven team divisions.
> 
> If that rumor turns out to be true Worcester will still be in the north along with Albany, and either Wheeling or Brampton switch to the central and we still have four seven team divisions.






just updated


----------



## crimsonace

Now if they could just figure out that the Quad Cities are in NW Illinois, not on the Kentucky border, and that Cincinnati is in the SW, not SE corner of Ohio (and Toledo appears to have moved to Cleveland, Indy to Lafayette, and Tulsa looks way too far south)


----------



## royals119

crimsonace said:


> Now if they could just figure out that the Quad Cities are in NW Illinois, not on the Kentucky border, and that Cincinnati is in the SW, not SE corner of Ohio (and Toledo appears to have moved to Cleveland, Indy to Lafayette, and Tulsa looks way too far south)




A lot of those team locations are very approximate. Wheeling is too far south and east, it should be up in that little spike of WV that fits between PA and OH. Reading is too far north and east, that location is closer to WBS.


----------



## 210

royals119 said:


> A lot of those team locations are very approximate. Wheeling is too far south and east, it should be up in that little spike of WV that fits between PA and OH. Reading is too far north and east, that location is closer to WBS.




Yeah, it's an info-graphic, not a road map...


----------



## Woo Hockey

https://www.facebook.com/WorcesterMass/videos/1184029428376935/

Facebook Live interview with Owner Cliff Rucker. Really put a lot of things in perspective with the business ventures that aren't just with the team.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Railers have secured an affiliation, which will be announced at the conclusion of the 2016-17 ECHL season.


----------



## crimsonace

Woo Hockey said:


> Railers have secured an affiliation, which will be announced at the conclusion of the 2016-17 ECHL season.





Pretty even-money odds that it's the Islanders.


----------



## Woo Hockey

crimsonace said:


> Pretty even-money odds that it's the Islanders.




Yep. 

Will be interesting to see how the affiliation goes if the Islanders do happen to move to Hartford though. With Boston's presumably affiliating with Manchester in the near future and the Islander's organization being so close to each other, I'd be pretty hyped for a good local rivalry.


----------



## HWP1997

Woo Hockey said:


> Yep.
> 
> Will be interesting to see how the affiliation goes if the Islanders do happen to move to Hartford though. With Boston's presumably affiliating with Manchester in the near future and the Islander's organization being so close to each other, I'd be pretty hyped for a good local rivalry.




Trust me, the Islanders aren't moving to Hartford. The XL Center isn't even up to NHL standards. A costly renovation could fix that issue, but with CT experiencing major budget issues, I don't see that happening anytime soon.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

Woo Hockey said:


> Yep.
> 
> Will be interesting to see how the affiliation goes if the Islanders do happen to move to Hartford though. With Boston's presumably affiliating with Manchester in the near future and the Islander's organization being so close to each other, I'd be pretty hyped for a good local rivalry.




WON'T need to, remember Bridgeport is in that mix, too, besides take this as a grain of salt, field of schemes is all over the Hartford "remodel", SOMETHING ALL AHL fans have STATED should happen, not just for the Pack, BUT OVERALL.

Manchester's still tied to the Kings, despite the local ownership, but it's still a Kings franchise, whether you call it or not.


----------



## Nightsquad

Woo Hockey said:


> Yep.
> 
> Will be interesting to see how the affiliation goes if the Islanders do happen to move to Hartford though. With Boston's presumably affiliating with Manchester in the near future and the Islander's organization being so close to each other, I'd be pretty hyped for a good local rivalry.




Didn't Boston extend an ECHL affiliation with Atlanta for another two to three season?


----------



## Woo Hockey

Nightsquad said:


> Didn't Boston extend an ECHL affiliation with Atlanta for another two to three season?




Yep. 

What I meant by near future was Manchester affiliating after Boston's affiliation with Atlanta is up.


----------



## Woo Hockey

http://www.telegram.com/sports/2017...-up-steam-as-it-chugs-toward-inaugural-season

"The Railers' NHL affiliate, which can't be announced until the summer but is unofficially lined up to be the New York Islanders, appears to be exactly what Worcester had hoped for when it began looking for a partner."


----------



## ADKthunderFan34

*Railers have found their affiliate*

Worcester Railers to be affiliated with the New York Islanders of the National Hockey League and the Bridgeport Sound tigers of the American Hockey League for the 2017-18 ECHL season


----------



## Speed

*Worcester Magazine: CLIFF RUCKER: A man in motion*

https://worcestermag.com/2017/03/09/cliff-rucker-man-motion/49931

Interesting tidbit:
_"Rucker started researching the ECHL, going so far as to fly to Elmira to meet with the Jackals organization in New York.

â€œI made an offer to buy the arena,â€ Rucker said. â€œThese are little known facts, I think. The reason I was intrigued was because the arena was part of the deal. I sat with the owners and made an offer to buy the arena and the team, and to my utter shock, they rejected the offer and didnâ€™t even counteroffer. In hindsight, thank God.â€"_


----------



## Woo Hockey

Speed said:


> https://worcestermag.com/2017/03/09/cliff-rucker-man-motion/49931
> 
> Interesting tidbit:
> _"Rucker started researching the ECHL, going so far as to fly to Elmira to meet with the Jackals organization in New York.
> 
> â€œI made an offer to buy the arena,â€ Rucker said. â€œThese are little known facts, I think. The reason I was intrigued was because the arena was part of the deal. I sat with the owners and made an offer to buy the arena and the team, and to my utter shock, they rejected the offer and didnâ€™t even counteroffer. In hindsight, thank God.â€"_




Bet they're kicking themselves for not accepting his offer.


----------



## Nightsquad

Speed said:


> https://worcestermag.com/2017/03/09/cliff-rucker-man-motion/49931
> 
> Interesting tidbit:
> _"Rucker started researching the ECHL, going so far as to fly to Elmira to meet with the Jackals organization in New York.
> 
> â€œI made an offer to buy the arena,â€ Rucker said. â€œThese are little known facts, I think. The reason I was intrigued was because the arena was part of the deal. I sat with the owners and made an offer to buy the arena and the team, and to my utter shock, they rejected the offer and didnâ€™t even counteroffer. In hindsight, thank God.â€"_






Woo Hockey said:


> Bet they're kicking themselves for not accepting his offer.




This is what bugs me the most, and that is when politicians or the so called movers and shakers of a city or market do everything they can to put barriers up to people from the outside so to speak coming to your town wanting to invest their money to establish whatever business it is. In a town like Elmira NY options are limited, its not exactly a picture of wealthy or affluent America. Nearby Corning is doing well but Elmira is a pretty depressed area as are most small cities of Upstate NY. Their economies are very reliant on government, or not for profit (text exempt) sectors such as colleges, hospitals, or other human service type industry. When a person steps in you have to do your due diligence and vetting but don't slam the door on the individual or group that wants to put forth the financial resources and capital that is pretty much a struggle for the locals.


----------



## CHRDANHUTCH

imo, Rucker did the right thing, going the expansion route, rather than inheriting a franchise that's HAD issues going back further than u can count w/ the arena and the franchise, and its past history of ownership, (AFR)


----------



## Woo Hockey

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> imo, Rucker did the right thing, going the expansion route, rather than inheriting a franchise that's HAD issues going back further than u can count w/ the arena and the franchise, and its past history of ownership, (AFR)




Not sure of the details in terms of money he offered for the team and arena, but knowing your franchise isn't doing too well financially and turning down an offer to potentially turn that around is just dumb on their part.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Nightsquad said:


> This is what bugs me the most, and that is when politicians or the so called movers and shakers of a city or market do everything they can to put barriers up to people from the outside so to speak coming to your town wanting to invest their money to establish whatever business it is. In a town like Elmira NY options are limited, its not exactly a picture of wealthy or affluent America. Nearby Corning is doing well but Elmira is a pretty depressed area as are most small cities of Upstate NY. Their economies are very reliant on government, or not for profit (text exempt) sectors such as colleges, hospitals, or other human service type industry. When a person steps in you have to do your due diligence and vetting but don't slam the door on the individual or group that wants to put forth the financial resources and capital that is pretty much a struggle for the locals.




Exactly. I'm assuming that part of them not selling is because the team is technically "community owned", but people need to have an open mind with theses kinds of things. If there's any possibility the entity can be owned by someone local and can stay true to the city, they should consider selling the team.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Railers will announce NHL affiliation at member event next week.


----------



## Sports Enthusiast

They are gunna need a solid affiliation game because they hired a weak head coach who mostly has a college background. Still think that was a head scratcher hire by Elmira 3 years ago. I'm surprised another team then wanted him after because its not like he showed anything or won.


----------



## 210

Sports Enthusiast said:


> They are gunna need a solid affiliation game because they hired a weak head coach who mostly has a college background. Still think that was a head scratcher hire by Elmira 3 years ago. *I'm surprised another team then wanted him after because its not like he showed anything or won.*




The year before Russell took over Elmira, they had 56 points. His first year he got them to 71, and the second year to 79. Then he left and this season Elmira had 42 points.

Not sure how you personally define "showed anything", but seems like he did a pretty good job in a terrible situation to coach in.


----------



## Woo Hockey

Sports Enthusiast said:


> They are gunna need a solid affiliation game because they hired a weak head coach who mostly has a college background. Still think that was a head scratcher hire by Elmira 3 years ago. I'm surprised another team then wanted him after because its not like he showed anything or won.




There's a bigger point that needs to be made that Elmira lasted only another year after his departure and did significantly worse with their new coach. 

He wasn't the problem with Elmira and there were plenty of problems with that organization.


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## 210

Since Bill Ballou just let the cat out of the bag, the Railers affiliate is indeed the New York Islanders.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

Islanders/Sound Tigers win Worcester's affiliation battle, GL Railers HC


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## mk80

I would imagine with that affiliation that means the KC Mavericks will make their Blues affiliation more formal. They already had a working agreement this season and sent quite a few players back and forth to Chicago this year.


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## GareFan18

mk80 said:


> I would imagine with that affiliation that means the KC Mavericks will make their Blues affiliation more formal. They already had a working agreement this season and sent quite a few players back and forth to Chicago this year.




But, what if the Wolves affiliation switches to the new Vegas franchise, as rumored? Interesting times.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

GareFan18 said:


> But, what if the Wolves affiliation switches to the new Vegas franchise, as rumored? Interesting times.




Vegas could always have an agreement, GF, THERE'S BEEN nothing on that front except what's been reported with CHI.....


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## mk80

GareFan18 said:


> But, what if the Wolves affiliation switches to the new Vegas franchise, as rumored? Interesting times.




If it switches then they send players between the Mavericks and whoever the new Blues AHL affiliate is, likely San Antonio according to the rumors


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## 210

mk80 said:


> If it switches then they send players between the Mavericks and whoever the new Blues AHL affiliate is, likely San Antonio according to the rumors




Then where does Colorado put their prospects?


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## ADKthunderFan34

does Vegas HAVE to have an AHL team for next season? Lot of rumors floating around about Chicago. Boise, Utah, Fresno among some other possible locations


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## 210

Bthatch34 said:


> does Vegas HAVE to have an AHL team for next season? Lot of rumors floating around about Chicago. Boise, Utah, Fresno among some other possible locations




Do they have one? Yes, they do. Who/where it's going to be has not been announced yet.


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## CHRDANHUTCH

well this from the Rangers forum, that covers the Hartford Wolf*Pack and the Maine Mariners as well as likely to be covered by the Telegram and the team website https://www.railershc.com;

Jamie Russell released by Worcester as GM/Coach, has been replaced by former Worcester Sharks assistant coach David Cunnliff, who has been the assistant coach in Hartford up till today to the same position


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## CANADIENSFAN90

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> well this from the Rangers forum, that covers the Hartford Wolf*Pack and the Maine Mariners as well as likely to be covered by the Telegram and the team website https://www.railershc.com;
> 
> Jamie Russell released by Worcester as GM/Coach, has been replaced by former Worcester Sharks assistant coach David Cunnliff, who has been the assistant coach in Hartford up till today to the same position



link goes nowhere


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## CHRDANHUTCH

CANADIENSFAN90 said:


> link goes nowhere



front page story on the Railers page and the link works when you google it as well as through their twiiter handle it story one on the team website


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## royals119

WORCESTER RAILERS MAKE COACHING CHANGE – HIRE DAVID CUNNIFF AS GENERAL MANAGER AND HEAD COACH - RailersHC.com

Here is the direct link to the story so anyone interested can find it later. 

They also released asst coach Derek Army, and Barry Almeida has been named player/assistant coach. VP of Marketing and Communications Eric Lundquist will be the new director of hockey operations (typically that means he will make the travel arrangements and do paperwork for transactions etc.) Many ECHL teams only have the coach and assistant handle all that stuff, but others have the "radio guy" handle some of the details if they don't have a full time assistant coach.


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## BruinsFan37

Why are we bumping this thread?

Oh wait, nvm...


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## CHRDANHUTCH

royals119 said:


> WORCESTER RAILERS MAKE COACHING CHANGE – HIRE DAVID CUNNIFF AS GENERAL MANAGER AND HEAD COACH - RailersHC.com
> 
> Here is the direct link to the story so anyone interested can find it later.
> 
> They also released asst coach Derek Army, and Barry Almeida has been named player/assistant coach. VP of Marketing and Communications Eric Lundquist will be the new director of hockey operations (typically that means he will make the travel arrangements and do paperwork for transactions etc.) Many ECHL teams only have the coach and assistant handle all that stuff, but others have the "radio guy" handle some of the details if they don't have a full time assistant coach.




much obliged, royals, it was buried in the Rangers/Hartford/Maine thread when the initial story broke via tweet, and that's after the game Tuesday night in Portland....

as for Almeida, apparently from what I saw out there, this could be his final season as a player and is under solely a Railers contract, it's just an odd move for Worcester, being an Islanders affiliate, to be hiring someone off the Rangers organization staff, no matter David's previous experience being in Worcester, as well as Iowa and Albany, after the Sharks became the Barracuda. 

the second reason I suspect this was done was to put the focus back on the Railers after the whole presser over announcing what was likely known about the Worcester Red Sox, and the "WooSox" presentation Monday night, even though a piece of the video did show the Railers and DCU Center.


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## 210

royals119 said:


> WORCESTER RAILERS MAKE COACHING CHANGE – HIRE DAVID CUNNIFF AS GENERAL MANAGER AND HEAD COACH - RailersHC.com
> 
> Here is the direct link to the story so anyone interested can find it later.
> 
> They also released asst coach Derek Army, and Barry Almeida has been named player/assistant coach. VP of Marketing and Communications Eric Lundquist will be the new director of hockey operations (typically that means he will make the travel arrangements and do paperwork for transactions etc.) Many ECHL teams only have the coach and assistant handle all that stuff, but others have the "radio guy" handle some of the details if they don't have a full time assistant coach.




It's really just a title bump for Eric, he's been doing almost all the "off the ice" stuff for the team since its inception. Almeida, who was already a player/assistant, is injured right now (I expect he'll be added to IR in the next couple days) and will be behind the bench with Cunniff. They'll decide if they want a full-time assistant coach in the next couple of weeks.


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## 210

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> the second reason I suspect this was done was to put the focus back on the Railers after the whole presser over announcing what was likely known about the Worcester Red Sox, and the "WooSox" presentation Monday night, even though a piece of the video did show the Railers and DCU Center.




Absolutely wrong. The two events had nothing to do with each other.


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## Centrum Hockey

CHRDANHUTCH said:


> much obliged, royals, it was buried in the Rangers/Hartford/Maine thread when the initial story broke via tweet, and that's after the game Tuesday night in Portland....
> 
> as for Almeida, apparently from what I saw out there, this could be his final season as a player and is under solely a Railers contract, it's just an odd move for Worcester, being an Islanders affiliate, to be hiring someone off the Rangers organization staff, no matter David's previous experience being in Worcester, as well as Iowa and Albany, after the Sharks became the Barracuda.
> 
> the second reason I suspect this was done was to put the focus back on the Railers after the whole presser over announcing what was likely known about the Worcester Red Sox, and the "WooSox" presentation Monday night, even though a piece of the video did show the Railers and DCU Center.



Cliff Rucker has final say on the staff/coaches the Islanders dont have any operational control of the railers whatsoever other than sending players.


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## 210

Centrum Hockey said:


> Cliff Rucker has final say on the staff/coaches the Islanders dont have any operational control of the railers whatsoever other than sending players.




They supply the goaltending coach too...but that's it. They were not consulted before Russell was relieved of his duties nor when Cunniff was hired.


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