# U.S. National Team Part VII



## bluesfan94

Continue


----------



## bluesfan94

A team that should be able to beat St. Vincent:


Pulisic - Altidore - Wood
Bedoya - Nagbe - Stanko
Johnson - Miazga - Cameron - Yedlin
Horvath​


----------



## bleedblue1223

When Jurgen says he wants the youth to push through, he means to actually push to be in the 11, not to ride the bench, that's not pushing through. You bring up Miazga, but in no way should he be considered with his lack of game time since his move to Chelsea. You can't ride the bench on your club, and then expect to play for the national team.

The national side is in bad shape, partly because of poor coaching, and then a general lack of talent with the aging vets declining and the young youth not having the ability of the previous crop. I don't see many players that can develop into what Donovan or Dempsey were in their prime. That's a problem. Then the guys with real potential make poor career decisions and go to clubs way too big for them.

At the end of the day, the national side should not be a development ground, even though that has been the belief lately. The development value a young player gets from playing some random national games or some trainings with Jurgen are minimal at best. The national side simply needs to field the best possible senior squad available to them at that very moment.


----------



## Basement Cat

bleedblue1223 said:


> When Jurgen says he wants the youth to push through, he means to actually push to be in the 11, not to ride the bench, that's not pushing through. You bring up Miazga, but in no way should he be considered with his lack of game time since his move to Chelsea. You can't ride the bench on your club, and then expect to play for the national team.
> 
> The national side is in bad shape, partly because of poor coaching, and then a general lack of talent with the aging vets declining and the young youth not having the ability of the previous crop. I don't see many players that can develop into what Donovan or Dempsey were in their prime. That's a problem. Then the guys with real potential make poor career decisions and go to clubs way too big for them.
> 
> At the end of the day, the national side should not be a development ground, even though that has been the belief lately. The development value a young player gets from playing some random national games or some trainings with Jurgen are minimal at best. The national side simply needs to field the best possible senior squad available to them at that very moment.




We have plenty of players at CB, CDM, and ST, who are playing consistent minutes, that are better than Orozco, Beckerman, and Wondo. You say that the national team shouldn't be a "developmental ground", I say that it shouldn't just be JK and his pets.

For example, why the hell don't guys like Danny Williams, Perry Kitchen, Dax McCarty, and Wil Trapp get called in over Beckerman?


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

I don't think we need to bring in younger players at every position. At some positions, we have requisite depth and starting lineup talent. At others, its needed. 

Jurgen should be doing a better job of assessing which positions could use younger players, and which positions to keep the veterans. What we don't need is all of these veterans to keep their spots way longer than they should be, and have the coach saying the young players aren't doing well enough. He shouldn't be talking about any individual player in a negative way to the press. I think thats something you can fault him for.


----------



## bluesfan94

Looks like: 
Altidore - Wood
Zusi - Bedoya - Beckerman - Johnson
Acosta - Besler - Cameron - Yedlin
Guzan​


----------



## Brock Anton

Acosta is not a LB, how many times does he need to play poorly there (at any level) before people realize this?


----------



## Savant

Yeah I would rather have Johnson in back and Acosta in the middle.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Brock Anton said:


> Acosta is not a LB, how many times does he need to play poorly there (at any level) before people realize this?





Agreed. I wish Jurgen would put him in a better position to succeed and try other players to determine the best possible options for depth after Johnson or another option to start and allow Johnson to play further forward.


----------



## Brock Anton

The fact that Jorge Villafana still hasn't been called up yet is just baffling. He's probably the best American LB right now.


----------



## SJSharks72

I'm actually kind of happy with this lineup. Probably the best that they could make with their three best players out.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Brock Anton said:


> The fact that Jorge Villafana still hasn't been called up yet is just baffling. He's probably the best American LB right now.




It is kind of head-scratching to say the least.


----------



## Brock Anton

all national anthems should be used with steel drums from now on.


----------



## IU Hawks fan

Pfft...gotta bury that


----------



## kingsboy11

Brock Anton said:


> all national anthems should be used with steel drums from now on.




10/10 agreed


----------



## Brock Anton

Bobby's got to score there.


----------



## Vamos Rafa

I love the background behind the pitch


----------



## East Coast Bias

Watching on Bein - Thomas Rongen is making my ears bleed. Absolutely horrid.


----------



## Brock Anton

East Coast Bias said:


> Watching on Bein - Thomas Rongen is making my ears bleed. Absolutely horrid.




He sounds like a dutch Bill Walton.


----------



## Brock Anton

Nice strike Bobby.


----------



## kingsboy11

he can finish that one, but not his first chance


----------



## DaveG

Well, this game is a laugher, but did anyone expect anything less?


----------



## Brock Anton

DaveG said:


> Well, this game is a laugher, but did anyone expect anything less?




Well, based on what happened in Antigua in 2012, maybe.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Brock Anton said:


> He sounds like a dutch Bill Walton.






The way he says "fullback" he makes it sound like a Bundesliga club name.


----------



## Brock Anton

Man, did Rongen just butcher "Pulisic".


----------



## kingsboy11

very poor start to the 2nd half. Lucky to have 2 goals disallowed


----------



## Vamos Rafa

I'd take this Dutch guy over Ray Hudson's weekly Messi slurp-slurp commentating style.


----------



## kingsboy11

The kid's alright


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich




----------



## DaveG

I know it's St Vincent, but this Pulisic kid kinda doesn't suck. It's nice to have.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Pavel Buchnevich said:


>





Haha, the fact that Benny wasn't called up last season as well is ridiculous. I love his passive aggressive hits at Jurgen.


----------



## East Coast Bias

bleedblue1223 said:


> Haha, the fact that Benny wasn't called up last season as well is ridiculous. I love his passive aggressive hits at Jurgen.




Well the popular theory was always that he, and to some extent Kljestan, were the unnamed sources in that famous USA Today that bashed JK in the last WC qualifier cycle.


----------



## bleedblue1223

East Coast Bias said:


> Well the popular theory was always that he, and to some extent Kljestan, were the unnamed sources in that famous USA Today that bashed JK in the last WC qualifier cycle.




Benny was definitely in on that, I don't really have any doubts on that.


----------



## njdevsfn95

This might as well be used for tonight, no?


----------



## Cody Webster

Both ****ing posts for the youngster


----------



## Halladay

So, if they win tonight they get to play Mexico at home in November...


----------



## Cody Webster

BlameUtley said:


> So, if they win tonight they get to play Mexico at home in November...




yes.


----------



## IU Hawks fan

BlameUtley said:


> So, if they win tonight they get to play Mexico at home in November...




I'm kinda half rooting against that happening. Been talking about going back to Columbus since the last one but I just started a new job and already have a few days I need off before the end of the year.


----------



## Cody Webster

Yuge goal!!


----------



## spintheblackcircle

That was very nice.


----------



## Cody Webster

Well on our way to the top


----------



## Halladay

that was beautiful.


----------



## Cody Webster

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLL

Altidore is on fire, but man, what a pass


----------



## Cody Webster




----------



## John Price

Can beat Mexico. 

Would have had easier road losing but blowing them out sends message this team for real. Mexico better watch themselves, they of "only beaten us once during Klinsmann Era".


----------



## Ugmo

Mike Emrick said:


> Mexico better watch themselves, they of "only beaten us once during Klinsmann Era".






A bunch of other teams better watch themselves too, having finally beaten us for the first time in decades thanks to Klinsmann!


----------



## IU Hawks fan

Can you 2 please give it a rest. 

Just clinched the group with a 4-0 win, but it must be doom and gloom as always. You'd fit in real well on the Hawk board.


----------



## Ugmo

IU Hawks fan said:


> Can you 2 please give it a rest.
> 
> Just clinched the group with a 4-0 win, but it must be doom and gloom as always. You'd fit in real well on the Hawk board.




Okay, chief.


----------



## Basement Cat

I loved the young talent on the field yesterday towards the end of the game:

Pulisic, Morris, Arriola, Stanko...that's with Yedlin and Brooks out, plus a number of quality young players on the verge of breaking through over the next 2 years by the time Russia rolls around.

Obviously as a Red Bulls fan it was great to see Sacha kick ass in these two qualifiers. He needs to start against Mexico imo...no more Bradley/Beckerman/Jones trio in the middle with worker bee Bedoya oout wide. Give me something like this if everyone is healthy:

---------Wood
Pulisic---------Nagbe
--------Klejstan
----Jones----Bradley
FJ--Brooks-Cameron--Yedlin
--------Howard

Then we have real options off of the bench like Jozy and Dempsey in attack


Also, has anyone noticed that Geoff Cameron always looks like he is in an utter state of shock?


----------



## Fro

welcome home to Columbus boys... America's Fortress #DosACero


----------



## Big McLargehuge

Was it a purely dominating performance? No, there's still work to be done, lopsided results or not...but I feel far better about this team right now than I did a week ago. We _should_ be beating teams like Trinidad & Tobago 4-0 at home...but we haven't been, so this is progress.


----------



## SJSharks72

Basement Cat said:


> I loved the young talent on the field yesterday towards the end of the game:
> 
> Pulisic, Morris, Arriola, Stanko...that's with Yedlin and Brooks out, plus a number of quality young players on the verge of breaking through over the next 2 years by the time Russia rolls around.
> 
> Obviously as a Red Bulls fan it was great to see Sacha kick ass in these two qualifiers. He needs to start against Mexico imo...no more Bradley/Beckerman/Jones trio in the middle with worker bee Bedoya oout wide. Give me something like this if everyone is healthy:
> 
> ---------Wood
> Pulisic---------Nagbe
> --------Klejstan
> ----Jones----Bradley
> FJ--Brooks-Cameron--Yedlin
> --------Howard
> 
> Then we have real options off of the bench like Jozy and Dempsey in attack
> 
> 
> Also, has anyone noticed that Geoff Cameron always looks like he is in an utter state of shock?




I would prefer to stick to the 442
Dempsey(if he comes back)-Altidore
Pulisic-any 2 of Klejstan/Jones/Bradley-Nagbe/Finlay
Fabian-Cameron-Brooks-Yedlin

If Dempsey doesn't come back I would say either Wood or Morris. Someone that can make runs while Jozy holds in up. I really want Vincent to take a huge step forward so we can move Fabian to LM.

Also I think it's just like a focused face for Geoff. I make that face too when I play. It just kind of happens.


----------



## bluesfan94

Wood needs to be playing, whether he's a wing or a striker. Given full health, I would do this, assuming we won't go 3-5-2 even though IMO we should:

Pulisic - Wood - Bedoya
Jones - Kljestan - Bradley
Johnson - Cameron - Brooks - Yedlin​
Of course, what I really want is this:

Wood - Altidore
Johnson - Jones - Kljestan - Bradley - Yedlin
Cameron - Besler - Brooks​


----------



## MurrayBannerman

bluesfan94 said:


> Wood needs to be playing, whether he's a wing or a striker. Given full health, I would do this, assuming we won't go 3-5-2 even though IMO we should:
> 
> Pulisic - Wood - Bedoya
> Jones - Kljestan - Bradley
> Johnson - Cameron - Brooks - Yedlin​
> Of course, what I really want is this:
> 
> Wood - Altidore
> Johnson - Jones - Kljestan - Bradley - Yedlin
> Cameron - Besler - Brooks​




You leave sweet baby Christian alone.


----------



## bluesfan94

MurrayBannerman said:


> You leave sweet baby Christian alone.




He would definitely be a late sub for either one of the strikers or one of the wingbacks.


----------



## Basement Cat

-----Wood----Jozy
Pulisic------------Donovan
---------Klejstan
---------Bradley
FJ--Brooks--Cameron--Yedlin
Ok, too soon???


----------



## SJSharks72

Basement Cat said:


> -----Wood----Jozy
> Pulisic------------Donovan
> ---------Klejstan
> ---------Bradley
> FJ--Brooks--Cameron--Yedlin
> Ok, too soon???




 maybe a little


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Can Pulisic be Donovan's replacement with Donovan on the team?


----------



## Ugmo

Pretty obvious Donovan isn't going to be on the team. If Klinsmann didn't want him two years ago, he won't want him now.


----------



## Big McLargehuge

Donovan could run away with the MVP next year and still wouldn't get a sniff from Klinsmann. Once he decides he doesn't like a player, it's over.


----------



## Ugmo

Big McLargehuge said:


> Donovan could run away with the MVP next year and still wouldn't get a sniff from Klinsmann. Once he decides he doesn't like a player, it's over.




Maybe he was motivated by Kljestan's USMNT comeback!


----------



## kingsboy11

GOALKEEPERS (3): David Bingham (San Jose Earthquakes), Ethan Horvath (Molde FK), William Yarbrough (Club Leon)

DEFENDERS (7): Steve Birnbaum (D.C. United), John Brooks (Hertha Berlin),Geoff Cameron (Stoke City), Timmy Chandler (Eintracht Frankfurt), Omar Gonzalez (Pachuca), Fabian Johnson (Borussia Moenchengladbach), DeAndre Yedlin (Newcastle)

MIDFIELDERS (8): Paul Arriola (Club Tijuana), Alejandro Bedoya (Philadelphia Union), Michael Bradley (Toronto FC), Lynden Gooch (Sunderland), Perry Kitchen (Hearts), Sacha Kljestan (New York Red Bulls), Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund), Danny Williams (Reading)

FORWARDS (5): Jozy Altidore (Toronto FC), Julien Green (Bayern Munich), Jordan Morris (Seattle Sounders FC), Chris Wondolowski (San Jose Earthquakes), Bobby Wood (Hamburg SV)

Called up for the October friendlies against Cuba and New Zealand. Still trying to figure out how Wondo keeps on getting called up


----------



## SJSharks72

Morris/Wood-Altidore
Pulisic-Bradley-Kljestan-Bedoya
Johnson-Brooks-Cameron-Yedlin
Bingham?


----------



## Basement Cat

Thoughts on a lineup like this vs. Mexico in a month?

-------------Altidore
-------------------------Wood
Pulisic
--------------------Klejstan
--------Bradley
-----------------Cameron 
Fabian---Brooks---Besler---Yedlin

-Altidore as the lead up top with Wood playing support striker but slightly more on the right, threatening the back line with timely runs and helping out Jozy in hold-up play

-Yedlin flying up and down the right side pretty much as a wing back with Cameron helping to clean up on the right side of the field

-Pulisic and FJ free to link up on the left all day long while Bradley mixes in with them and helps clean up when FJ shoots up the pitch much like Cam will do on the other side for Yedlin

-Klejstan with two defensively sound CMs behind him allowing him to be creative and play a similar role he excels at with NYRB. He is also much more defensively apt than traditional #10s in a 4-2-3-1

-Besler and Brooks are our two best CBs in my opinion and both are above average with the ball at their feet.

-Probably go with Howard in goal


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Basement Cat said:


> Thoughts on a lineup like this vs. Mexico in a month?
> 
> -------------Altidore
> -------------------------Wood
> Pulisic
> --------------------Klejstan
> --------Bradley
> -----------------Cameron
> Fabian---Brooks---Besler---Yedlin
> 
> -Altidore as the lead up top with Wood playing support striker but slightly more on the right, threatening the back line with timely runs and helping out Jozy in hold-up play
> 
> -Yedlin flying up and down the right side pretty much as a wing back with Cameron helping to clean up on the right side of the field
> 
> -Pulisic and FJ free to link up on the left all day long while Bradley mixes in with them and helps clean up when FJ shoots up the pitch much like Cam will do on the other side for Yedlin
> 
> -Klejstan with two defensively sound CMs behind him allowing him to be creative and play a similar role he excels at with NYRB. He is also much more defensively apt than traditional #10s in a 4-2-3-1
> 
> -Besler and Brooks are our two best CBs in my opinion and both are above average with the ball at their feet.
> 
> -Probably go with Howard in goal




Most of that looks pretty exact. 

Klinsmann has not once played that CB combination, and they won't be playing together before the Mexico game, so I don't think thats likely. Its much more likely Cameron and Brooks at center-back, and some other defensive midfielder to replace Jones or Gonzalez/Birnbaum and Brooks with Cameron as the defensive midfielder. 

Wood's not good as a winger or wing forward, but Klinsmann has used him there before. I think the two full-back positions are also not something he has decided on yet. He might want Johnson playing as a winger, and if so, you need to bring in someone to play LB, could be Besler, could be someone else. The other full-back position is another question. Chandler is starting in the Bundesliga, Yedlin isn't starting every game in the second division of England. Klinsmann has given Chandler more chances than most coaches would, so I would not be that surprised if Chandler is starting at RB against Mexico. Klinsmann might decide to start him at LB.


----------



## kingsboy11

I think the wild card in all this Brooks. He's been battling injuries and been in and out of form at Berlin. If he isn't healthy next month, then that moves Cameron back to CB with Besler which leaves a spot in the midfield. My guess is that Bedoya will take that spot on the right side with Bradley sitting in front of Besler and Cameron. And obviously FJ and Pulisic going up and down the left side and Jozy and Wood up top. Which is basically what they were running with against St. Vincents and T&T.


----------



## Brock Anton

Looks like we're going with a 4-4-2 today. 



> Horvath; Yedlin, Cameron, Brooks, Johnson; Green, Bradley, Kljestan, Pulisic; Wood, Altidore


----------



## kingsboy11

I played on better fields in High school than what these guys are playing on


----------



## Brock Anton

This game is pointless.


----------



## bluesfan94

Of course Wondo scores. As does Green, from Wondo. 

Birnbaum catches a stud to the head. Scary. 

Horvath has looked confident this game. I wouldn't be entirely opposed to him getting a look at the #1 spot. He's been great for Molde.


----------



## kingsboy11

bluesfan94 said:


> Of course Wondo scores. As does Green, from Wondo.
> 
> Birnbaum catches a stud to the head. Scary.
> 
> Horvath has looked confident this game. I wouldn't be entirely opposed to him getting a look at the #1 spot. He's been great for Molde.




Absolutely shocking that Cuban player wasn't sent off for that challenge on Birnbaum. 

Think Horvath and Green in particular played fairly well considering the conditions of the field. Other than that, not much to take away from this game.


----------



## Big McLargehuge

kingsboy11 said:


> Absolutely shocking that Cuban player wasn't sent off for that challenge on Birnbaum.




Disgusting is the word I'd use. That was painful to watch, and blatantly obvious to boot.

Wondo scoring was a given...he can only score when given an empty net, and Cuba is the type of team that will allow him to get in that kind of position. That outta keep him on the team for another year. 

That's 3 goals in 2 games against Cuba for Wondolowski, to go along with 2 in 2 against Guatemala, 3 in 1 against Belize...that doesn't mean he can do _anything_ against a good team, though he did somehow score against Mexico once, so...national hero.


----------



## kabidjan18

Big McLargehuge said:


> Disgusting is the word I'd use. That was painful to watch, and blatantly obvious to boot.
> 
> Wondo scoring was a given...he can only score when given an empty net, and Cuba is the type of team that will allow him to get in that kind of position. That outta keep him on the team for another year.
> 
> That's 3 goals in 2 games against Cuba for Wondolowski, to go along with 2 in 2 against Guatemala, 3 in 1 against Belize...that doesn't mean he can do _anything_ against a good team, though he did somehow score against Mexico once, so...national hero.



Well, you just described Jonathan Kodjia right there too...seems like it's an inevitable problem in every NT.


----------



## John Price

Was at usa new Zealand yesterday. Goooooch!!!


----------



## John Price

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/201...diskerud-klinsmann?xid=socialflow_facebook_si

Abby Wambach is holding firm on her stance against the U.S. men's national team's use of dual-national players, doubling down on previous comments in an interview with the New York Times.

Last December, Wambach told Bill Simmons on his podcast that she would fire manager Jurgen Klinsmann and questioned his reliance on "foreign guys," saying "The way that he has changed and brought in these foreign guys, itâ€™s just not something that I believe in."

Wambach was subsequently the target of ire from a number of U.S. dual-nationals, most prominently Colombian-American Alejandro Bedoya and Norwegian-American Mix Diskerud, with the latter imploring Wambach to "think about who you try to disenfranchise."


----------



## Fro

WTH Abby...


----------



## Wee Baby Seamus

Yikes... 

The argument can be made and isn't a fully unreasonable one that it is unsustainable for the USA to continue to rely on the courting of dual nationals. There's less of a focus on the pure domestic development of players when you depend on the recruitment of eligible players from other countries. That argument can be made. 

Wambach's argument, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be that argument. Specifically, questioning their commitment to the team simply on the basis of dual nationality reeks to me. "Do they have that killer instinct? I don't know." is the worst one for me. There's something really infuriating about that to me, just in the way that it is so casually xenophobic.


----------



## bluesfan94

The thing is, someone like Pulisic/Miazga are technically dual nationals.


----------



## KingLB

bluesfan94 said:


> The thing is, someone like Pulisic/Miazga are technically dual nationals.




Almost everyone in the US system is a dual national...I think Gedion was/is a tri-national?

I also don't see how relying on the Germans to fill holes leads to the US focusing less on development. I think you always try to develop the best you can, then if a player falls in your lap, you atleast take a look. (Jones/Brooks types).


----------



## kabidjan18

bluesfan94 said:


> The thing is, someone like Pulisic/Miazga are technically dual nationals.



She specified born in the states, and Pulisic and Miazga were both born in the states. Now, both grew up in the states, but I don't see the problem of someone being born even "over international waters" if you accidently caught them on a trip or something. 

There are the purists and there are those who accept binationals. Keeping the competition in view however, a lot of other nations around the US' caliber have little qualms about binationals so being too picky about that could be an eventual disadvantage.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Abby is an idiot, USMNT should simply pick the best players available to them.


----------



## njdevsfn95

She wants JK fired?

Was she calling for Sundhage to be fired while coaching the USWNT to back to back gold medals?

If she was, good on her, if she wasnt, she sounds like a hypocrite.


----------



## Brock Anton

Roster for the MEX and CRC matches


----------



## kingsboy11

Do my eyes deceive me or is Wondo not called up? Is Klinnsman feeling alright? 

And why bring 4 goalies?


----------



## bleedblue1223

kingsboy11 said:


> Do my eyes deceive me or is Wondo not called up? Is Klinnsman feeling alright?
> 
> And why bring 4 goalies?




Who cares, Wondo isn't there, hell I'd be happy if he had 6 goalies an no Wondo.


----------



## Big McLargehuge

bleedblue1223 said:


> Who cares, Wondo isn't there, hell I'd be happy if he had 6 goalies an no Wondo.




Amen.

This isn't the sort of news that should be a surprise, but here we are.

Also nice to see JÃ³hannsson healthy enough to be in the picture again. No doubt that he got Wondo's spot.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

If you believe Ives, he said Wondo and Beckerman would've both been in the squad, but they were injured.


----------



## kabidjan18

ESPNFC mentioned the US should maybe cap-tie Carter Vickers if the score is extremely opportunistic or extremely unfortunate. I think the US absolutely needs to cap-tie him, regardless of score. The US is in a sort of transition phase right now, and it's important to wrap up talent for the future.


----------



## kingsboy11

Alan Gordon replaces injured Jordan Morris for the games against Mexico and Costa Rica


----------



## Cin

Give the ball to Pulisic and all will be fine.


----------



## Rob

Next US game at Azteca should be even more dangerous than usual.


----------



## Ugmo

Turns out Geoff Cameron is a drooling imbecile. Huh.


----------



## John Price

In theory this would be a good game to head to the ao bar but most of them are in Columbus anyway so I'll sit this one out at home.


----------



## John Price

Ugmo said:


> Turns out Geoff Cameron is a drooling imbecile. Huh.




Men in Blazers 11/07/16: Jurgen Klinsmann Pod Special
Men In Blazers
Duration: 29:10
Published: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:19:00 +0000
URL: http://feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/291918188-meninblazers-11072016jurgenklinsmann.mp3

Ahead Friday's seismic clash against Mexico to open up the Hex, Rog sat down with USMNT manager Jurgen Klinsmann to discuss the big picture state of U.S. Soccer, the transition between the old guard a...

Subscribe to this podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/MenInBlazers

----
Sent from Podcast Republic 2.9.6
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.itunestoppodcastplayer.app


----------



## John Price




----------



## Halladay

I thought the game was tomorrow.


----------



## ecemleafs

looks like 4-4-2

altidore wood
johnson bradley jones pulisic
besler brooks gonzo chandler
howard


----------



## ecemleafs

is yedlin suspended?


----------



## Basement Cat

Im so pumped. A little nervous about 3 in the back but I think it fits our player pool.

Also looking forward to the American Outlaws singing "This Lan is Your Land" to the Mexico supporters. I think thats a nice gesture


----------



## jacobhockey13

Here we go.


----------



## kingsboy11

Love that the 2 teams took the team photo together


----------



## jacobhockey13

Jozy was in with a back heel there. Pulisic just looks brilliant. Crowd erupts when he's on the ball.


----------



## dogbazinho

Bradley looks like crap. Took a bad angle on the mexico shot and 2 bad passes already.


----------



## jacobhockey13

dogbazinho said:


> Bradley looks like crap




He's in incredible form for TFC. Just needs to settle in.


----------



## John Price

*Hit da post with da shaaaht!*


----------



## Savant

I like the idea of playing 3 at the back, but maybe try it in a friendly first.


----------



## jacobhockey13

If Guardado made contact there that would have been a straight red.


----------



## kabidjan18

Wood and Altidore have been the best today. FJ is doing pretty poorly.


----------



## dogbazinho

Fifa glitch bradley started 69ing guy and another guy scores


----------



## kabidjan18

dogbazinho said:


> Fifa glitch bradley started 69ing guy and another guy scores



Lol


----------



## jacobhockey13

Unlucky more than anything there.


----------



## John Price

wake up boys


----------



## kingsboy11

Already looking a lot better after changing the formation. Losing Guardado is going to hurt Mexico.


----------



## John Price

So Howard goes out with an injury and Guzan comes in. Not a big Guzan guy but fine with him coming in here.


----------



## ecemleafs

bradley spent the whole half jogging around in poor positions and coming out 2nd best in every 50 50. awful awful performance.


----------



## John Price

Wood!!!!


----------



## John Price

Can see them being al ot more aggressive the second half, lot of good chances to 

WHAT

GOOD CALL


----------



## mouser

Wow, would love to see more cards like that for obvious dives.


----------



## AdmiralsFan24

Bradley is complete ass. No awareness whatsoever.


----------



## ecemleafs

chippy game


----------



## kabidjan18

Salcedo doing what I do when I get beat. Lay down make you go around me.


----------



## John Price

**** that.


----------



## kabidjan18

Wood and Altidore were good. Everyone else was eh at best.


----------



## John Price

First WC Qualifier loss at home since 2001. Pathetic effort.

Klinsmann 3 win and 3 draws against Mexico. Now has lost two straight against them.


----------



## Live in the Now

The problem is that the manager still doesn't realize what to do in midfield and has not adapted to the requirements of the game.


----------



## Halladay

Losing two straight and having to wait a bunch of months will be fun.


----------



## kingsboy11

Bad gamble by Klinnsman to start with 3 in the back. Started the game with no cohesion which Mexico was able to take advantage of.


----------



## njdevsfn95

If all the home teams win their next match, we are 6pts out already.

So there's that.


----------



## Halladay

njdevsfn95 said:


> If all the home teams win their next match, we are 6pts out already.
> 
> So there's that.



 
Mexico is at Panama. Worst case they are 4 points off 3rd.


----------



## njdevsfn95

Well then. That's good-ish.


----------



## John Price

They better win on Tuesday and they've never won in Costa Rica. 

If there's any reason to believe, this team has been embarrassed before and responded with fire. But some of those events happened at home. This is going to be a tough road to climb back from but it's still 1 out of 10 games.


----------



## Halladay

These first two games were really tough. They will probably need 16 points points for third, about 13 for 4th and play Asia.


----------



## njdevsfn95

The only silver lining to a bad start is that 6 of the remaining 8 games are not against Mexico or Costa Rica...and the Costa Rica match is at home.


----------



## NJDevs26

G F O P said:


> They better win on Tuesday and they've never won in Costa Rica.
> 
> If there's any reason to believe, this team has been embarrassed before and responded with fire. But some of those events happened at home. This is going to be a tough road to climb back from but it's still 1 out of 10 games.




Theoretically they could come back from 0-2 but the pressure for months between games on the team and Klinsmann in general would be enormous. Those other times I don't think they had to sit on that kind of land mine for months, they got to play Guatemala again right away when they were at DEFCON 2 after the 2-0 loss.


----------



## kabidjan18

US don't really have a sub that can change the game. Obviously Deandre Yedlin wasn't some super-spark. There's nobody in the offensive positions who is good enough to replace someone already on the field late in games.


----------



## Halladay

NJDevs26 said:


> Theoretically they could come back from 0-2 but the pressure for months between games on the team and Klinsmann in general would be enormous. Those other times I don't think they had to sit on that kind of land mine for months, they got to play Guatemala again right away when they were at DEFCON 2 after the 2-0 loss.




They had to wait about a month and half last hex after losing to Honduras. There was some panic as they had Costa Rica at home and at Azteca, They beat Costa Rica in the snow and drew in Mexico. They cruised the rest of the way, but this is a different team. If they lose to Costa Rica (which I think are), it wont be a fun four months. They still could make it, but they would have to win at least 5 out 8 games (think they come in 4th if lose though).


----------



## Basement Cat

kabidjan18 said:


> US don't really have a sub that can change the game. Obviously Deandre Yedlin wasn't some super-spark. There's nobody in the offensive positions who is good enough to replace someone already on the field late in games.




Klejstan could've made a difference late in that game. 
Morris is out but he's a nice attacking sub. And you can't forget Dempsey who I assume will be a super sub if he ever gets back

Of course, there's Landon Donovan


----------



## kabidjan18

Basement Cat said:


> Klejstan could've made a difference late in that game.
> Morris is out but he's a nice attacking sub. And you can't forget Dempsey who I assume will be a super sub if he ever gets back
> 
> Of course, there's Landon Donovan



Well obviously JK didn't bring in Klejstan. Really besides a hat trick 7 years ago in a friendly against Sweden and a big game against St. Vincent and the Grenadines he hasn't been an amazing scorer for the MNT either. 

Morris and Dempsey are out yes. And they will be out against Costa Rica. Donovan may not be back either, certainly not against Costa Rica. There's also the matter of player over position. Wood and Altidore were by far the best guys tonight. You don't generally take off the guys who've been doing the best, you take off guys who are not doing as well. Morris and Dempsey, add in Johansson, there's really no guarantee that's an upgrade even to the tired versions, given an inevitable disruption in chemistry.

Mexico was really helped by having a Hirving Lozano. I think having a player like him would've been somewhat helpful towards that end stretch.


----------



## KingLB

BlameUtley said:


> They had to wait about a month and half last hex after losing to Honduras. There was some panic as they had Costa Rica at home and at Azteca, They beat Costa Rica in the snow and drew in Mexico. They cruised the rest of the way, but this is a different team. If they lose to Costa Rica (which I think are), it wont be a fun four months. They still could make it, but they would have to win at least 5 out 8 games (think they come in 4th if lose though).




Question, since you think 4th is where we end up. Do you think the Tico's or Hondurus get better results than the US in the same games? IE Hosting Mexico and Hondo going to CR, CR coming to the US?


----------



## Halladay

KingLB said:


> Question, since you think 4th is where we end up. Do you think the Tico's or Hondurus get better results than the US in the same games? IE Hosting Mexico and Hondo going to CR, CR coming to the US?




I have no confidence in JK, so I definitely think Costa Rica will finish ahead. Id expect them to beat Mexico at home. I wouldnt expect Honduras to go into San Jose and win, and Costa Rica is always a tough game at home for the Americans. Ideally they win their other 4 games a find a way to win at T&T or Panama, that would probably be enough. Not sure they go 4-0 in their other home games with the way things have been going though. But it is too early to panic, even if they lose Tuesday. But if they dont have 3 points by the time the games in March are over, it is.


----------



## njdevsfn95

Mexico was 4th last time and that was ONLY because the US actually played to the 95th minute away in Panama.

If Mexico plays to their 1st/2nd (Hex position) capability, I think the usual nations at the bottom won't get points this time around that they got last time.

Of course, that means that we cannot play this Hex the way Mexico played last one.


----------



## kingsboy11

Tim Howard out 4 months according to Twellman. Might miss the the qualifying games in March.


----------



## SJSharks72

kabidjan18 said:


> US don't really have a sub that can change the game. Obviously Deandre Yedlin wasn't some super-spark. There's nobody in the offensive positions who is good enough to replace someone already on the field late in games.




Lynden Gooch could become that. He really has impressed me.


----------



## kabidjan18

SJSharks39 said:


> Lynden Gooch could become that. He really has impressed me.



At Sunderland? Well I like him in general but I haven't seen anything particularly impressive about his season the few times I watch to see Lamine. Maybe. Someone on ESPNFC suggested that and I can see that, maybe Chandler or Jones.


----------



## SJSharks72

kabidjan18 said:


> At Sunderland? Well I like him in general but I haven't seen anything particularly impressive about his season the few times I watch to see Lamine. Maybe. Someone on ESPNFC suggested that and I can see that, maybe Chandler or Jones.




Didn't even think about Jones. He would be fantastic off the bench. He was a workhorse last game for Colorado but was definitely wearing down as the game went on. Have him come on in the last 30 minutes and let him do his crazy runs forward.


----------



## kabidjan18

SJSharks39 said:


> Didn't even think about Jones. He would be fantastic off the bench. He was a workhorse last game for Colorado but was definitely wearing down as the game went on. Have him come on in the last 30 minutes and let him do his crazy runs forward.



Jones is a starter. I meant maybe Gooch in for Jones or Chandler my bad.


----------



## SJSharks72

kabidjan18 said:


> Jones is a starter. I meant maybe Gooch in for Jones or Chandler my bad.




Yeah I would still rather go back to the 442 until Dempsey comes back if he comes back.

Altidore-Wood/Morris
Pulisic-Kljestan/Feilhaber(please)-Bradley-Bedoya
Johnson-Brooks-Cameron-Yedlin

Bring Jones and Gooch on when we are chasing the game for Bedoya and Kljestan.


----------



## kov

Is this game not broadcast anywhere?? Not seeing it in any listings.


----------



## kingsboy11

kov said:


> Is this game not broadcast anywhere?? Not seeing it in any listings.




Its on Bein Sports, which isn't available to many cable providers. You can watch the game on the Go90 app though or live stream it in spanish on NBC Universo


----------



## kov

cool thanks


----------



## kingsboy11

John Brooks just having a shocking game tonight. Looks nothing like the Brooks we saw at Copa America.


----------



## kabidjan18

Things may be interesting for USA if they can't pull it out because Chandler and Jones will be suspended for accumulation, and Howard will be questionable for Honduras.


----------



## Cin

Does this team even know what a set piece is?


----------



## Cin

This team looks like absolute ****. Bottom of the barrel.


----------



## njdevsfn95

Does the team know how to defend a header?

3 straight headed goals against


----------



## NJDevs26

Glad the Devils were on at the same time so I didn't have to watch this ****

So guess it's back to DEFCON 2 right now. With DEFCON 1 being the end of the world and blow everything up all over the place.


----------



## njdevsfn95

It gets better [for the JK out crowd].

3-0 Costa Rica


----------



## kingsboy11

****ing done with this ****


----------



## Halladay

Sack JK, have 4 months to regroup.


----------



## HajdukSplit

the team quit


----------



## njdevsfn95

...and 4-0


----------



## Brock Anton

If he's not fired tomorrow, I'm done. Utter ****show.


----------



## kingsboy11

Leave Klinnsman in San Jose


----------



## Ugmo

Brock Anton said:


> If he's not fired tomorrow, I'm done. Utter ****show.




Yep.

How can Sunil possibly justify keeping him at this point?


----------



## Live in the Now

They will because "if England wanted him he must be good"


----------



## njdevsfn95

Think I may need to join the mob here. With the exception of a couple of nice wins at the CA2016, not much to say about everything after Ghana in 2014.

Two full years is enough...go into 2017 fresh and new.


----------



## kabidjan18

If Klinsmann expected to have a job tomorrow he would cap tie CCV...


----------



## Fro

brutal to watch...don't see how JK has a job tomorrow


----------



## Halladay

They are in real danger of not qualifying if they keep him. Winning at home isnt guaranteed anymore.


----------



## njdevsfn95

Did we really only make 2 subs?


----------



## kabidjan18

njdevsfn95 said:


> Did we really only make 2 subs?



No, two after 2-0, one more after 3-0, none of them were CCV.


----------



## Brock Anton

> Steven Goff ‏@SoccerInsider
> Earlier today, a longtime US contact told me USSF had lined up Arena in case of another loss. Didn't believe it at time, but now ... hmmm




Sounds like Arena would be the guy if the impossible happened and Jurgen is fired, his contract is up w/LA as well.


----------



## Panteras

man what a bad loss.


----------



## Savant

Brock Anton said:


> Sounds like Arena would be the guy if the impossible happened and Jurgen is fired, his contract is up w/LA as well.




Would be interesting to see who the Galaxy would go with. 

That is a very intriguing job.


----------



## John Price

BlameUtley said:


> They are in real danger of not qualifying if they keep him. Winning at home isnt guaranteed anymore.




The good news is although they lost the qualifying process is ridiculous. Mexico... Mexico won two hex games in 2014 and still qualified. 

Not even close to over. Wahl said if they won 3-0 next game they would already be 4th place.


----------



## John Price

Shouldn't he be fired by now


----------



## bleedblue1223

Between Jurgen and lack of transition to a younger core, whether it's a Jurgen issue or a talent issue, the US is in trouble.


----------



## kabidjan18

G F O P said:


> The good news is although they lost the qualifying process is ridiculous. Mexico... Mexico won two hex games in 2014 and still qualified.
> 
> Not even close to over. Wahl said *if they won 3-0 next game* they would already be 4th place.



The "if" factor to that is of course that they are down Jermaine Jones and Timothy Chandler due to accumulation, and will perhaps still be down Tim Howard too. If Honduras manage to draw somehow and then they lose to Panama on the road then worries begin to be legitimated.


----------



## SJSharks72

Klinnsmann needs to leave. You can't get rid of the players so something needs to change and Jurgen out is probably the easiest way to go. I don't care who replaces him as long as it's someone that keeps the players accountable and plays them in their natural positions.


----------



## Big McLargehuge

Brock Anton said:


> Sounds like Arena would be the guy if the impossible happened and Jurgen is fired, his contract is up w/LA as well.




The Galaxy fan in me would be devastated to lose him...but I have a million times more faith in one of Bruce Arena's dead skin cells being more competent than Klinsmann.


----------



## sjsharks92

I didn't watch the game last night so forgive me if I'm misspeaking, but why doesn't Deandre Yedlin play more? It seems his speed on the outside be it at LB or RB or on the wings would be a huge threat for the team. 

If the youth movement is to make any real progress, guys like Green, Yedlin, Wood, Pulisic, Miazga, Morris need to be given every opportunity to succeed.


----------



## Burner Account

Big McLargehuge said:


> The Galaxy fan in me would be devastated to lose him...but I have a million times more faith in one of Bruce Arena's dead skin cells being more competent than Klinsmann.




Bruce Arena and his Wambachian stance on dual nationals?


----------



## njdevsfn95

kabidjan18 said:


> No, two after 2-0, one more after 3-0, none of them were CCV.




I was following on Twitter and must have missed it. Thanks.



sjsharks92 said:


> I didn't watch the game last night so forgive me if I'm misspeaking, but why doesn't Deandre Yedlin play more? It seems his speed on the outside be it at LB or RB or on the wings would be a huge threat for the team.




Yedlin has won over many Newcastle supporters. Personally I think what I am about to say is overblown BUT he did play for Sunderland (loan from Spurs) last year...so it speaks volumes about what he has meant and how he has performed. Many Newcastle supporters are very happy to have him.

Granted Newcastle is in the Championship but if the MLS did just fine last night for Costa Rica, the Championship could do just fine for the USMNT.


----------



## kabidjan18

People keep calling Costa Rica an MLS side. Of the 14 players who saw the pitch yesterday they had 4 Costa Rican league players, 4 MLS players, 2 Liga Nos, 2 La Liga, 1 Brazil Serie A, 1 Swiss Super League. That's like saying the Bundesliga team did terrible because the US plays 4 Bundesliga players. The two guys they usually have who were missing due to injury play in the Danish Superligaen and the Scottish Premiership. 

There's also this amazing narrative which goes Costa Rica knocked out the European giants with a primarily MLS team. Amazing because of how wildly untrue it is. One player started each game, Gonzalez. Another player started one game, Miller, due to accumulation but never played the rest of the tournament. The last player, Francis, never played. So of the 55 starts among 14 players, only 6 starts were by the 2 MLS players, of the 70 caps among 18 players, still only 6 appearances were made by the 2 MLS players. The Norwegian Tippeligaen played a larger role than the MLS did...


----------



## Cassano

IMO you fire JK when he fails to qualify. He's done so much for the NT and his teams always overachieve in major tournaments.


----------



## njdevsfn95

I didn't call CR a "MLS side" because of a belief they had a lot of MLS players but simply pointing out how the league the players come from doesn't always matter.


----------



## kingsboy11

mint said:


> imo you fire jk when he fails to qualify. He's done so much for the nt and his teams always overachieve in major tournaments.






You're right, he's breaking records left and right.


----------



## Ugmo

mint said:


> IMO you fire JK when he fails to qualify. He's done so much for the NT and *his teams always overachieve in major tournaments.*




Dunno about this. His team won the 2013 Gold Cup convincingly, won 1 game at the 2014 World Cup, completely screwed the pooch at the 2015 Gold Cup and finished with a losing record at Copa America on our own home soil (not even managing to get a shot off against Argentina IIRC). Not to mention the Confederation's Cup qualification debacle which is 100 percent his fault.

There have been a few highs under Klinsmann, but the lows have been abysmal. He should have been fired long ago and would have been if America actually had the soccer culture he's always going on about.


----------



## Cassano

Ugmo said:


> Dunno about this. His team won the 2013 Gold Cup convincingly, won 1 game at the 2014 World Cup, completely screwed the pooch at the 2015 Gold Cup and finished with a losing record at Copa America on our own home soil (not even managing to get a shot off against Argentina IIRC). Not to mention the Confederation's Cup qualification debacle which is 100 percent his fault.
> 
> There have been a few highs under Klinsmann, but the lows have been abysmal. He should have been fired long ago and would have been if America actually had the soccer culture he's always going on about.




2014 he advanced in a group despite having the least amount of talent. And they should've beat Belgium. 

Gold Cup was bad, agreed.

2016 - Argentina ran through everyone that tournament (until that final and awful Rojo red card), no shame in getting destroyed by arguably the best national team in the world at the time. Besides, I did not expect USMNT to get out of their group in that tournament anyways (Columbia, Paraguay). 

USA don't have great players that play significant roles on European teams. Their issue is talent. They can bring in Jogi, Conte or any other coach from a NT and they'll get similar results more or less.


----------



## Halladay

mint said:


> 2014 he advanced in a group despite having the least amount of talent. And they should've beat Belgium.
> 
> Gold Cup was bad, agreed.
> 
> 2016 - Argentina ran through everyone that tournament (until that final and awful Rojo red card), no shame in getting destroyed by arguably the best national team in the world at the time. Besides, I did not expect USMNT to get out of their group in that tournament anyways (Columbia, Paraguay).
> 
> USA don't have great players that play significant roles on European teams. *Their issue is talent*. They can bring in Jogi, Conte or any other coach from a NT and they'll get similar results more or less.





Their issue when they get to the World Cup is talent, not in CONCACAF. The fact of the matter is the players have quit on him, and when that happens it is time to get rid of the coach (happens in every sport). Not sure they qualify with him as the manager.


----------



## kabidjan18

BlameUtley said:


> Their issue when they get to the World Cup is talent, not in CONCACAF.



Spot on. 

USMNT generally overperforms against talented rosters and underperforms against less talented rosters. A lot of this has to do of course with being in a transition between old stars and newer talent, and really talented teams have a hard time with cohesiveness in international play because of how little time they get to spend together. When you don't have options, ironically when you're forced to play the same players you complain about all the time, the players begin to gel. Costa Rica's starting 11 was an average of 29.8 years old. The Costa Rican 14 have a combined 120 caps more than the American 14, that's on average 11 games per player, that's a lot more time together. Meanwhile, the England side that beat Scotland had an adjusted 107 caps less than the American side, so maybe 10 games a player. Obviously this isn't always the case. There's a point where pure skill outwits cohesiveness, but with this Cost Rica team you have a golden generation (Ruiz, Borges, Bolanos, Azofiefa, formerly Diaz) on the last leg of it's journey, top to bottom an extremely old team, that in a few years won't be relevant because they'll lack both talent and chemistry, while the US is in that transition spot between phasing out players that will not be relevant in 2 years and introducing players who need to be cohesive in 2 years.


----------



## Ugmo

Klinsmann still not fired. Come on Sunil, get your finger out.


----------



## Ugmo

mint said:


> 2014 he advanced in a group despite having the least amount of talent. And they should've beat Belgium.




They got badly outplayed by everyone except for one half against Portugal and were incredibly lucky to advance. Belgium would have been a massacre but for an inhuman performance by Tim Howard. I lot of people (me included) would argue that Klinsmann's decisions made it more difficult for us to succeed in Brazil and that we did so (such that it was) despite him, not because of him.




mint said:


> 2016 - Argentina ran through everyone that tournament (until that final and awful Rojo red card), no shame in getting destroyed by arguably the best national team in the world at the time. Besides, I did not expect USMNT to get out of their group in that tournament anyways (Columbia, Paraguay).




This is true, there is no shame in getting beaten, or even destroyed by Argentina. There is shame in fielding a scared, old, play-it-safe lineup that didn't even manage to get a single shot off on goal.



mint said:


> USA don't have great players that play significant roles on European teams. Their issue is talent. They can bring in Jogi, Conte or any other coach from a NT and they'll get similar results more or less.




As others have said, this has nothing to do with that. People aren't complaining because Klinsmann isn't able to compete with Argentina and Germany consistently (although he was specifically hired to make progress in that area). People are complaining because now even the crappy teams in our crappy region seem like a challenge for us. He's had some highlights, but far more and far lower lowlights, and we've made zero progress during his tenure. When you hire a guy to elevate the program and he instead somehow manages to make it worse, it's time for him to go (and any serious soccer nation would have fired him long ago).


----------



## hockeykicker

is usa in trouble of not qualifying or is it way too early to think that?


----------



## bleedblue1223

hockeykicker said:


> is usa in trouble of not qualifying or is it way too early to think that?




Still way too early, but they are in the hole.


----------



## Savant

hockeykicker said:


> is usa in trouble of not qualifying or is it way too early to think that?




Costa Rica, Mexico and USA are the three best teams in the group. In a vacuum. Losing two games is bad but in context it's not catastrophic. They do have work to do though.


----------



## NJDevs26

Klinsmann as a coach is bad enough, but Klinsmann as the technical director and czar of US Soccer is a disaster. Whatever you want to say about Klinsmann's tenure as a coach, they've gone backwards in every metric even besides the national team with failing to qualify for the Olympics and other U- tournaments and not developing the younger players, especially the younger homegrown (re: non dual-national) players.

And honestly Klinsmann might be out already (after the Gold Cup or the Copa America at the latest) if John Brooks doesn't score against Ghana.


----------



## Moncherry

mint said:


> 2014 he advanced in a group despite having the least amount of talent. *And they should've beat Belgium*.




Uh, what? USA making it to extra-time was miraculous. Belgium completely dominated that game.


----------



## Brock Anton

Yeah, Wondo only had the chance to win that because of Howard. Take his performance away and Belgium wins that match like 4-0.


----------



## Brock Anton

**** this guy, seriously. 



> “I’m not afraid,” Klinsmann said. “What you need to do is stick to the facts. Soccer is emotional, and a lot of people make conclusions without knowing anything about the inside of the team or the sport. I still believe we will get the points we need to qualify, and I am even confident we could win the group.”
> 
> He added: “The fact is, we lost two games. There is a lot of talk from people who don’t understand soccer or the team.”




http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/sports/jurgen-klinsmann-national-team.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1


----------



## kingsboy11

Brock Anton said:


> **** this guy, seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/sports/jurgen-klinsmann-national-team.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1




I'm sick of this clown. His arrogance is unbearable. Should've lost his job well over a year ago. Any other country would've canned him much sooner.


----------



## Ugmo

kingsboy11 said:


> I'm sick of this clown. His arrogance is unbearable. Should've lost his job well over a year ago. Any other country would've canned him much sooner.




He is such a charlatan. Ugh. I bet Sunil won't fire him.


----------



## Big McLargehuge

I'm sick of our incompetence being blamed on supposedly uneducated fans. **** off you arrogant ****heap.


----------



## Brock Anton

It happened... it actually happened.


----------



## SJSharks72

Just got a notification from Team Stream that Klinsmann is gone. Any truth to this? Please be true!


----------



## hockeykicker




----------



## spintheblackcircle

He gone!


----------



## kingsboy11

Ding dong the Witch is dead. Don't let the door hit you on the way out *******


----------



## Brock Anton

ESPN saying that it is Arena.


----------



## Brock Anton




----------



## Shrimper

Now, England. Appoint him. I'd have Jurgen 10* over Gareth ****ing Southgate


----------



## SJSharks72

If it is Bruce Arena, does he bring LD on as an assistant coach to mentor him to take over for him?


----------



## Brock Anton

SJSharks39 said:


> If it is Bruce Arena, does he bring LD on as an assistant coach to mentor him to take over for him?




Maybe he'd hire him as an assistant, but I see no way that LD takes over for Arena, nor should he. Arena is only here to right the ship and get us to Russia, after that, Gulati is certainly going to want someone with experience for the 2022 cycle.


----------



## Ceremony

Shrimper said:


> Now, England. Appoint him. I'd have Jurgen 10* over Gareth ****ing Southgate




ahahahahahaha

Yes, do this, it'll be a laugh at least


----------



## Bon Esprit

I have no idea why it took so long for you Americans to see Klinsmann is nothing but an imposter. At least you got it now. Better times are coming.


----------



## Cody Webster

Party!!!!!


----------



## Bon Esprit

Shrimper said:


> Now, England. Appoint him. I'd have Jurgen 10* over Gareth ****ing Southgate




Never knew England is so desperate. JÃ¼rgen MF Klinsmann? You don't have any better in stock? Wow. You are doomed.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Shrimper said:


> Now, England. Appoint him. I'd have Jurgen 10* over Gareth ****ing Southgate




Haha, are you guys really that desperate?


----------



## Big McLargehuge

The Galaxy fan in me is seriously bummed about likely losing Bruce...but nation trumps club, and thank the powers that be that it finally happened.

Get the **** out and never show your face here again, JÃ¼rgen.


----------



## IU Hawks fan

I'm in shock. Didn't think they had the stones to go through with this.


----------



## Basement Cat

Thank god. Should've happened after Gold Cup 2015


----------



## John Price

Ramos or pareja would do. Raise a young American legend to bring some respectability back to this program


----------



## HajdukSplit

I could be way off, but my guess is Arena till 2018 then they try to go foreign route again, although that seems to be toxic now. But I can see them making a play at least for somebody like Bielsa, Pekerman if they are interested. Hiddink is already too old imo

In terms of domestic coaches, I'd like either Vermes or Marsch, the one problem with Marsch however is he has no 'Plan B' if things aren't working


----------



## Brock Anton

G F O P said:


> Ramos or pareja would do. Raise a young American legend to bring some respectability back to this program




Pareja is fine, Ramos absolutely not. But either way, Arena is here through Russia then we'll hire a guy like Pareja or someone like that. Arena has the experience to get us through the Hex and that's all we need to focus on right now. Screw a plan, play style, the future and whatnot right now, the objective is to qualify for Russia and who cares how it's done.


----------



## Gooch

Any positives from firing of Jurgen are offset with hiring of Arena. I hope that isnt true. Use this opportunity to take the team in a new direction, not 10+ years in the past.


----------



## Brock Anton

Gooch said:


> Any positives from firing of Jurgen are offset with hiring of Arena. I hope that isnt true. Use this opportunity to take the team in a new direction, not 10+ years in the past.




That will wait for after Russia. Arena knows how to navigate through the Hex and he is familiar with a good chunk of the player pool, he's the ideal choice for a situation like this. He's nothing but a stopgap, which is what we need right now.


----------



## Big McLargehuge

Gooch said:


> Any positives from firing of Jurgen are offset with hiring of Arena. I hope that isnt true. Use this opportunity to take the team in a new direction, not 10+ years in the past.




I could see this more if I had any thought that Bruce would coach past the 2018. The way I see it this job isn't even for two full years, and it's hard to imagine Arena doing more damage to this program in ~21 months than Klinsmann has done just in this qualification cycle alone.

Arena is the ideal stopgap solution and I have full faith that not only can he get us to Russia, but he can get us to be relatively competitive there. Past that count me as another on the Pareja bandwagon. No one wants to see Arena as the long-term solution. Simply put we don't have the time to make sweeping changes before Russia while still actually, you know, going to Russia.


----------



## John Price

The arena fracas isn't a big deal. It's temporary until 2018 at which point someone like Ramos takes over. At least according to Grant Wahl. So while I was initially terrified of arena again I would see what he has to offer. He does have experience guiding a team through the hex. It's not as bad as many make it out to be. Get through the hex, do well in Russia then step aside.


----------



## Cin

I don't see Arena as much of an upgrade at all. We should be aiming higher if we want to be higher.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Cin said:


> I don't see Arena as much of an upgrade at all. We should be aiming higher if we want to be higher.




You need a certain amount of familiarity with the players. It's not like a club team where a new manager will have plenty of training time with the players to get to know them. The new manager will have limited training time and limited time to even determine the correct squad selection, so picking someone who isn't familiar with the pool of players could be a disaster.


----------



## Gooch

You don't need Arena to get through the hex. This is a completely uninspiring move and sets back the program, not advances it. Arenas thoughts on dual citizenship players alone should eliminate him from consideration. 

I wasnt a Klinnsman fan but my biggest fear is this type of hire if he was fired.


----------



## John Price

Cin said:


> I don't see Arena as much of an upgrade at all. We should be aiming higher if we want to be higher.




A lot of media speculation that arena already has the job. I get your point but I also get that arena has gone this road before re the hex qualification.

That being said I see the other side too. If you're going to fire Klinsmann go big. Firing him was big so get someone else that's big.


----------



## Brock Anton

Cin said:


> I don't see Arena as much of an upgrade at all. We should be aiming higher if we want to be higher.




'Aiming higher' should be the last of our worries right now. We have to qualify for the World Cup. Bringing in somebody completely unfamiliar with the U.S. system in the middle of WCQ when you're in a hole has disaster written all over it. Even a guy like Pareja, who I love and want to be the next manager, would be a bad idea right now. He has minimal international experience, we need(ed) a guy with experience, not only internationally, but inside CONCACAF. Arena checks both boxes.


----------



## Cin

I disagree. The team is clearly good enough to qualify and should under any competent manager.


----------



## Big McLargehuge

Aim high in 2018.

We just need to get there first.

Now had Klinsmann been fired at one of the 830 or so times when he should have been before we could have aimed high for this cycle...but it's too late now.


----------



## Brock Anton

G F O P said:


> That being said I see the other side too. If you're going to fire Klinsmann go big. Firing him was big so get someone else that's big.




Too late now. We had the chance to do that ('15 Gold Cup), but Gulati waited too long.


----------



## Gooch

Cin said:


> I disagree. The team is clearly good enough to qualify and should under any competent manager.




Agreed, plenty of games left and the first two were against the two toughest teams by a fair margin. A sleepwalking USA would be able to qualify.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Vermes would be my biased pick.


----------



## Brock Anton

Big McLargehuge said:


> Past that count me as another on the Pareja bandwagon.




Yep. Pareja for coach, Clavijo for TD. Sorry, Dallas.


----------



## sjsharks92

Think it was Jurgen's time. Not sure how I feel about an Arena's hire though. While I get the argument that our new manager must be familiar with the players, I also feel a bigger change is needed. As has been stated earlier in this thread, this team has enough talent that any competent manager should be able to figure out how to get us to Russia, even without familiarity with most of the roster.


----------



## kabidjan18

I don't believe in the efficacy of firing Klinnsmann. 

The US reminds me a lot of the African footballing nations, though where pure depth of talent is concerned the US would be second in Africa. There's a constant battle between preserving the dignity of the local league and doing what's best to advance the national team. Jurgen went one way, the way all European coaches go, with advancing the national team and recruiting binationals. And he recruited great talent. He had more recruiting success than any single coach I've ever seen. Some officials didn't like that, they wanted the MLS product to be sold. Some fans could only see the sky above the well and wanted him to play the players they saw weekly. Some players were offended by his comments about their career choices. 

Two difficult games. Yet most importantly a team in transition. A team transitioning from a fading old generation to a new generation. Two apathetic performances, and the critics had all the fuel they needed. 

Klinnsmann should have been more judicious with his comments. Most African coaches disdain the local league but refrain from saying so. 

But firing Kilnnsmann solves nothing. A new coach will come in and want to play his style, and he will have a week in January and two days in March to practice it. The same group of players, some who haven't played with each other enough, are poor players to begin with, or who are over the hill, will be there. The only difference in the product sold is that it will have all been hastily re-packaged again.


----------



## bleedblue1223

The roster really isn't that talent to get to Russia on a formality. We still should get there, but there is a very realistic possibility that this could end up going bad. Many of the former stars are not what they used to be.


----------



## Gooch

bleedblue1223 said:


> The roster really isn't that talent to get to Russia on a formality. We still should get there, but there is a very realistic possibility that this could end up going bad. Many of the former stars are not what they used to be.




There are 8 games left to be played with 2 out of 3 of the hardest matches already done. We only need to finish in the top 4 out of the 6 teams with ideally it being in the top 3 to avoid the playoff with the 5th place asian team. 

I totally agree with the former stars not being what they used to be which is why this potential hire has me scared. We need someone not allergic to using younger players, especially younger players with non MLS ties.


----------



## Cin

kabidjan18 said:


> I don't believe in the efficacy of firing Klinnsmann.
> 
> The US reminds me a lot of the African footballing nations, though where pure depth of talent is concerned the US would be second in Africa. There's a constant battle between preserving the dignity of the local league and doing what's best to advance the national team. Jurgen went one way, the way all European coaches go, with advancing the national team and recruiting binationals. And he recruited great talent. He had more recruiting success than any single coach I've ever seen. Some officials didn't like that, they wanted the MLS product to be sold. Some fans could only see the sky above the well and wanted him to play the players they saw weekly. Some players were offended by his comments about their career choices.
> 
> Two difficult games. Yet most importantly a team in transition. A team transitioning from a fading old generation to a new generation. Two apathetic performances, and the critics had all the fuel they needed.
> 
> Klinnsmann should have been more judicious with his comments. Most African coaches disdain the local league but refrain from saying so.
> 
> But firing Kilnnsmann solves nothing. A new coach will come in and want to play his style, and he will have a week in January and two days in March to practice it. The same group of players, some who haven't played with each other enough, are poor players to begin with, or who are over the hill, will be there. The only difference in the product sold is that it will have all been hastily re-packaged again.




All of this.


----------



## Cassano

1 step forward, 2 steps back...


----------



## bleedblue1223

Gooch said:


> There are 8 games left to be played with 2 out of 3 of the hardest matches already done. We only need to finish in the top 4 out of the 6 teams with ideally it being in the top 3 to avoid the playoff with the 5th place asian team.
> 
> I totally agree with the former stars not being what they used to be which is why this potential hire has me scared. We need someone not allergic to using younger players, especially younger players with non MLS ties.




We should definitely qualify, even if it does end up with winning the playoff match, but if we have any slip ups in games where we should win, we won't have much slack to cover for it.


----------



## kabidjan18

Gooch said:


> There are 8 games left to be played with 2 out of 3 of the hardest matches already done. We only need to finish in the top 4 out of the 6 teams with ideally it being in the top 3 to avoid the playoff with the 5th place asian team.
> 
> I totally agree with the former stars not being what they used to be which is why this potential hire has me scared. We need someone not allergic to using younger players, especially younger players with non MLS ties.



Agreed. I think some players really need to be out of the picture by now like Jermaine Jones. Great player, warrior, true American, but he's 35 and not getting younger. Qualifying itself shouldn't be so hard unless there is a royal catastrophe, but you don't want to get to Russia and Jones, Demspey, Wondowlowski, Guzan, Howard, maybe even Cameron and Klejstan are just about ready to call it a day and you have maybe two games and a two friendlies to try to fuse Gooch, Green, Pulisic, Miazga, Morris, Acosta, and whoever the goalie at the time will be, etc.


----------



## Brock Anton

kabidjan18 said:


> Agreed. I think some players really need to be out of the picture by now like Jermaine Jones. Great player, warrior, true American, but he's 35 and not getting younger. Qualifying itself shouldn't be so hard unless there is a royal catastrophe, but you don't want to get to Russia and Jones, Demspey, Wondowlowski, Guzan, Howard, maybe even Cameron and Klejstan are just about ready to call it a day and you have maybe two games and a two friendlies to try to fuse Gooch, Green, Pulisic, Miazga, Morris, Acosta, and whoever the goalie at the time will be, etc.




Completely agree about JJ and Wondo, and probably Howard. But Dempsey, provided his health is in check, proved he can still play in the Copa so you keep him around. Guzan is okay I guess, but I really want to see Hamid get a chance here sometime soon. Completely disagree about Cameron and Kljestan, however. Especially Cameron, as his absence is a big reason why our defense was a hot mess the past two games. It could also be attributed to Brooks' less than stellar play as well, as the two formed a formidable partnership over the summer. Kljestan has done nothing but create opportunities since his recall, so I see no reason to leave him out.


----------



## kabidjan18

Brock Anton said:


> Completely agree about JJ and Wondo, and probably Howard. But Dempsey, provided his health is in check, proved he can still play in the Copa so you keep him around. Guzan is okay I guess, but I really want to see Hamid get a chance here sometime soon. Completely disagree about Cameron and Kljestan, however. Especially Cameron, as his absence is a big reason why our defense was a hot mess the past two games. It could also be attributed to Brooks' less than stellar play as well, as the two formed a formidable partnership over the summer. Kljestan has done nothing but create opportunities since his recall, so I see no reason to leave him out.



No one ever questioned his playing skills, Dempsey is 33 and hasn't played for months because of health concerns. Cameron and Klejstan are 31 each, one couldn't make it because of injury concern that's had him out a month and the other had one nice game in 2009 against Sweden and then another one against St. Vincent and really otherwise he hasn't been a pivotal offensive piece. Fast forward to Russia 2018, they are what, 35, 33, and 33. 

I wouldn't put any money on Dempsey to be in world class shape at 35. Cameron,he could potentially still be serviceable if injury and the fitness bug don't bite, but you'd at least hope that a 23 year old Miazga has improved by then to eclipse the man a decade his senior. Of course it isn't to say Cameron isn't instrumental to the team as it is now because he absolutely is, but you've got to plan ahead and begin to integrate younger CBs onto the team or you're betting on the health and fitness of a will-be 33 year old who has missed over a month of action twice in the past year and three times in the past little over two years.


----------



## Power Man

It's not like the team will get magically better under a new coach


----------



## Halladay

Power Man said:


> It's not like the team will get magically better under a new coach




If they actually try they will.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Our problem is much more of a talent issue. When our vets were in their primes, we had multiple players that could create. Dempsey and Donovan could create magic, Bradley could be a playmaker from the CM spot. While those guys had top-end abilities, you also had guys of the Kljestan level supplement them to make for a more balanced attack. With our current squads, and more importantly, for 2018, our only high-end creative force is Pulisic. That's a massive problem because we still don't know what he will provide on the international level, and he will also be the main target for oppositions.

Is the next generation going to be as good or better than the Donovan, Dempsey, Howard, Bradley, etc. era? We don't know yet, Pulisic looks to be on the Donovan/Dempsey tier, but we need more. Julian Green was supposed to be where Pulisic was, so does he get on track or does he fall off?

If we can't successfully replace Dempsey, Jones, Bradley, then we are screwed regardless. Even when those guys were in their prime, we needed to upgrade positions, but now we can't even think about upgrading spots where guys like Jozy have been doing an above average grade at, but nothing spectacular, now we have to worry about passing the torch at key positions.

Bradley/Jones are at a point where Reyna/Mastroeni were at in 2006. If we don't develop a new partnership for 2018, we won't get out of the group.


----------



## LemmyUlanov55

I'm more surprised Klinsi lasted 5!!! years as a coach, who would've thought that.


----------



## Power Man

BlameUtley said:


> If they actually try they will.




It's on the players at this point


----------



## Eisen

Anyone has a quick rundown for me on Klinsmann's history with the team? Very short. I get he's blamed for having stifled the team but I didn't follow all too closely. What did he do to get criticised?


----------



## kabidjan18

Eisen said:


> Anyone has a quick rundown for me on Klinsmann's history with the team? Very short. I get he's blamed for having stifled the team but I didn't follow all too closely. What did he do to get criticised?



Underperform in all the local competitions, overperform in the international ones.


----------



## Halladay

Power Man said:


> It's on the players at this point




Sure, but they seemed to tune him out and there was lack of effort.


----------



## bleedblue1223

BlameUtley said:


> Sure, but they seemed to tune him out and there was lack of effort.




Is it lack of effort or just a declining ability in individuals? I'd lean more towards declining ability.


----------



## Halladay

bleedblue1223 said:


> Is it lack of effort or just a declining ability in individuals? I'd lean more towards declining ability.




It could be a combination of both. But any coaches job in all sports is to try to put their players in the best position to succeed. Can we say he did? He isnt the fundamental problem with what is wrong with American soccer, but he isnt the solution. Right now they need to make a hite based on someone who they think can qualify. They have 8 games left, they probably need 15 points.


----------



## kingsboy11

Gooch said:


> There are 8 games left to be played with 2 out of 3 of the hardest matches already done. We only need to finish in the top 4 out of the 6 teams with ideally it being in the top 3 to avoid the playoff with the 5th place asian team.
> 
> I totally agree with the former stars not being what they used to be which is why this potential hire has me scared. We need someone not allergic to using younger players, especially younger players with non MLS ties.




While the Hex is rather forgiving in qualifying for the World Cup and the odds for us to still advance to Russia is still very likely, Mexico needed a 90th minute equalizer from the US against Panama to win that 4th place spot to go head to head against New Zealand to qualify for Brazil. It is a realistic possibility that we won't qualify for Russia. So while some may say that re-hiring Arena isn't really a step forward, there are a lot of positives in that he's familiar with the Program and has experience in World Cup Qualifying. 

At this point right now, we need to get our priorities straightened out and our priority right now is qualify for Russia. 

Give Arena the keys until the World Cup and then replace him not long after. I'm also jumping on the Pareja bandwagon, but it would be foolish to offer him the job at this point. The ideal scenario would to have been fire Klinsmann after the 2015 Gold Cup and got someone like Pareja, but Gulati waited too long.


----------



## Gooch

kingsboy11 said:


> While the Hex is rather forgiving in qualifying for the World Cup and the odds for us to still advance to Russia is still very likely, Mexico needed a 90th minute equalizer from the US against Panama to win that 4th place spot to go head to head against New Zealand to qualify for Brazil. It is a realistic possibility that we won't qualify for Russia. So while some may say that re-hiring Arena isn't really a step forward, there are a lot of positives in that he's familiar with the Program and has experience in World Cup Qualifying.
> 
> At this point right now, we need to get our priorities straightened out and our priority right now is qualify for Russia.
> 
> Give Arena the keys until the World Cup and then replace him not long after. I'm also jumping on the Pareja bandwagon, but it would be foolish to offer him the job at this point. The ideal scenario would to have been fire Klinsmann after the 2015 Gold Cup and got someone like Pareja, but Gulati waited too long.




Is he really that familiar with the program? He last managed USA over 13 years ago. What makes him more familiar with the players than say any other MLS coach?


----------



## Michigan

Jurgen is the goat.


----------



## chasespace

Eisen said:


> Anyone has a quick rundown for me on Klinsmann's history with the team? Very short. I get he's blamed for having stifled the team but I didn't follow all too closely. What did he do to get criticised?




Overperformed in friendlies, underperformed in competitions(or didn't improve upon his predecessor). Would blame his failures on players or fans not understanding "how football works".


----------



## Savant

JK did some good things but overstated his welcome. That's all I've got to say about that.


----------



## Ugmo

Eisen said:


> Anyone has a quick rundown for me on Klinsmann's history with the team? Very short. I get he's blamed for having stifled the team but I didn't follow all too closely. What did he do to get criticised?




Was hired (at three to four times the salary of his predecessor) to elevate the program and set it on the path to consistently compete with the world's top powers, but actually made the team worse. Blamed everyone but himself for the lack of progress, including the players, the media, the fans and MLS. And did so for five years, mostly with the attitude that anyone who was criticizing him just doesn't know much about soccer. I've never been so glad to see a sports coach get fired.


----------



## Basement Cat

Predictions as to which players gain the most from this and which lose out? *Assuming it's Bruce.

*Gain:*

-Feilhaber: Think he finally gets a callup to help steer the ship through qualifying, but I doubt that he gets to go to Russia.

-Nagbe: We are in desperate need of a CM who can control the ball in tight spaces. He starts at least one of the next two WCQ.

-Lletget: He deserves some callups and that is exactly what he will get with his club manager now in control of the national squad.

-Dax McCarty: Will become the Kyle Beckerman of this cycle

-Agudelo

-Hedges

-English Championship players such as Ream and Lichaj will be getting calls over BL2 players.

-Landon Donovan 

*Lose:*

-Wondo, Beckerman, Orozco: Thank you for your service, but good riddance.

-Chandler: Won't see him for a while IMO

-Jones: Will be phased out much quicker now that JK is gone.

-Bedoya: Nagbe replaces him

-Johansson: Think he is way down on the depth chart now..behind Jozy, Wood, Morris, Agudelo, Zardes, Dempsey


Howard
Yedlin-Cameron-Brooks-Johnson
McCarty-Bradley
Nagbe-Klejstan-Pulisic
--------Wood


----------



## njdevsfn95

Officially Bruce Arena

When's the next camp?


----------



## bluesfan94

Arena seems to be walking back his anti-foreign-born player comments, which is heartening.


----------



## Brock Anton

njdevsfn95 said:


> Officially Bruce Arena
> 
> When's the next camp?




January.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Psst - it wasn't that JK trashed MLS and encouraged players to play in Europe that got him fired. It wasn't that he recruited dual nationals that got him fired. It wasn't the Donovan debacle, which was so amazingly stupid, that got him fired. It wasn't that the US is just too average to ever be better, tho he will have you believe that. It wasn't that he was ahead of his time and the fans just didn't understand the process, tho he thinks that's true too. It wasn't that the young system of pay to play sucks, or that no other country in the world has a college system of players. 

No. He got fired because JK is an absolutely terrible coach. He always has been. He always will be. He survived all of those things. He could not survive being constantly outcoached when we played a team with any sort of talent. 

Maybe we can hire Philip Lahm after Arena, and really troll the **** out of JK?


----------



## ScottishCanuck

Bruce Arena lol.


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Ugmo said:


> Was hired (at three to four times the salary of his predecessor) to elevate the program and set it on the path to consistently compete with the world's top powers, but actually made the team worse. Blamed everyone but himself for the lack of progress, including the players, the media, the fans and MLS. And did so for five years, mostly with the attitude that anyone who was criticizing him just doesn't know much about soccer. I've never been so glad to see a sports coach get fired.




If you expected Klinsmann to make the US a "top power" you were just asking to be disappointed. I don't really agree that the team is worse than when he took over, but they have underperformed in domestic competition.

I think people dislike him so much more for his unlikeability and air of European football elitism, which rubs sensitive Americans that have always dealt with that for years the wrong way, than his x's and 0's. I get why that would be insane to tolerate if the results don't match. Bruce Arena isn't an upgrade in my estimation, but he's American and familiar.


----------



## Alex Jones

Ugmo said:


> Was hired (at three to four times the salary of his predecessor) to elevate the program and set it on the path to consistently compete with the world's top powers, but actually made the team worse. Blamed everyone but himself for the lack of progress, including the players, the media, the fans and MLS. And did so for five years, mostly with the attitude that anyone who was criticizing him just doesn't know much about soccer. I've never been so glad to see a sports coach get fired.



Not that Klinsmann is a good manager or anything, but I don't understand how people think that the United States is suddenly going to compete with the rest of the world, because US players simply aren't very good. It's hard for me to watch a USA match and see the quality out there to compete with top level sides, especially going forward. 

To me it's a lot less a problem of coaching as a problem of simply not having the necessary manpower. If anything, it seems to me that the United States consistently overperforms their talent level, not underperforms.


----------



## nyrleetch

Ugh. Don't agree with the firing right now, especially not for Bruce Arena.

Bring Back Landon!


----------



## nyrleetch

Also Michael Bradley complained a lot about Jurgen after the games recently, but Bradley's form this year for USA is garbage.


----------



## Cin

Why does anybody want Donovan back anywhere near the team?

This team one step forward and then two back.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Cin said:


> Why does anybody want Donovan back anywhere near the team?
> 
> This team one step forward and then two back.




Because people don't understand the game...too soon?


----------



## nyrleetch

Cin said:


> Why does anybody want Donovan back anywhere near the team?
> 
> This team one step forward and then two back.




They already took two steps back bringing in Arena.

Obviously Landon is not coming back, more of a joke but let him play over Wondo. Now that's someone who shouldn't see the the field.


----------



## bleedblue1223

nyrleetch said:


> Obviously Landon is not coming back, more of a joke but let him play over Wondo. Now that's someone who shouldn't see the the field.




Wondo has played 4 times in 2016, lets not act like he plays all the time.


----------



## Ugmo

Jersey Fresh said:


> If you expected Klinsmann to make the US a "top power" you were just asking to be disappointed. I don't really agree that the team is worse than when he took over, but they have underperformed in domestic competition.
> 
> I think people dislike him so much more for his unlikeability and air of European football elitism, which rubs sensitive Americans that have always dealt with that for years the wrong way, than his x's and 0's. I get why that would be insane to tolerate if the results don't match. Bruce Arena isn't an upgrade in my estimation, but he's American and familiar.





I didn't say I expected that. But it was the clear rationale for bringing on Klinsmann: to set the U.S. on the road toward becoming a team that would be able to compete with the world's powers. That's why he was given several times Bob Bradley's salary and unprecedented power in the program. Yet not only did we make no progress toward that goal, we actually got worse.



El Donald said:


> Not that Klinsmann is a good manager or anything, but I don't understand how people think that the United States is suddenly going to compete with the rest of the world, because US players simply aren't very good. It's hard for me to watch a USA match and see the quality out there to compete with top level sides, especially going forward.
> 
> To me it's a lot less a problem of coaching as a problem of simply not having the necessary manpower. If anything, it seems to me that the United States consistently overperforms their talent level, not underperforms.




The problem with this argument is that not only did we fail to get better against good teams, we actually started playing worse against shitty teams too. The fact that we can't compete against Argentina and Germany is the players' fault. The fact that under Klinsmann we also sucked against Concacaf is the coach's fault.


----------



## Cin

Okay thank god. I wasn't in on the joke lol

While obviously I'm not exactly thrilled Arena got the job, I really hope he succeeds. I want this team to become a powerhouse as soon as possible. Hopefully he's the guy to do it.

I'm really excited that he'll value Nagbe more than Jurgen though. I look forward to that.


----------



## Halladay

I dont see Arena as a step backwards, as he probably wont be here past 2018. He was brought in to qualify for Russia.


----------



## Eisen

chasespace said:


> Would blame his failures on players or fans not understanding "how football works".




Yeah, that'll help grow the game. Klinsi never was the brightest bulb.


----------



## Eisen

El Donald said:


> Not that Klinsmann is a good manager or anything, but I don't understand how people think that the United States is suddenly going to compete with the rest of the world, because US players simply aren't very good. It's hard for me to watch a USA match and see the quality out there to compete with top level sides, especially going forward.
> 
> To me it's a lot less a problem of coaching as a problem of simply not having the necessary manpower. If anything, it seems to me that the United States consistently overperforms their talent level, not underperforms.




Can't be done by one coach. You need a great grassroots program. In a country like Germany it took 10 years. That's how long it takes to build a generation. Start with the kids.


----------



## Ugmo

Eisen said:


> Can't be done by one coach. You need a great grassroots program. In a country like Germany it took 10 years. That's how long it takes to build a generation. Start with the kids.




In addition to which Germany was starting at a much higher level than the U.S. and had all the expertise in place to build that generation.

It's possible or maybe even likely that the U.S. will never, ever get to that level, but hiring a snake oil salesman at great expense who actually makes the program worse while constantly condescendingly telling everyone they don't recognize his genius really won't get us there...


----------



## NJDevs26

bluesfan94 said:


> Arena seems to be walking back his anti-foreign-born player comments, which is heartening.




There really isn't anything else he could have said right now, both given the current political climate and given the reality that there are already a bunch of foreign borns in the system. Although going with the 'if I said it' defense isn't exactly taking responsibliity for it.

I don't really get the ripping of bringing in Arena, when you're not only dumping a coach but the technical director midcycle you have to have someone with familiarity to take over at least one if not both those roles. Plus he's a competent coach and had about the best results you could expect from the US then, he was only really fired the first time cause they lost to Ghana in the WC and because these days eight years and two full cycles is a long time for a manager in one tenure.


----------



## Eisen

Ugmo said:


> In addition to which Germany was starting at a much higher level than the U.S. and had all the expertise in place to build that generation.
> 
> It's possible or maybe even likely that the U.S. will never, ever get to that level, but hiring a snake oil salesman at great expense who actually makes the program worse while constantly condescendingly telling everyone they don't recognize his genius really won't get us there...




It's really ridiculous. And I really wonder how he got that reputation. Even when he coached the German team, LÃ¶w was the real coach. Klinsmann was just a face. And he always had the reputation as a bit of a simpleton (much like MatthÃ¤us in that regard). Him and being a genius are world's apart. He was one hell of a striker, though.
What did he do to the US program?


----------



## East Coast Bias

Eisen said:


> It's really ridiculous. And I really wonder how he got that reputation. Even when he coached the German team, LÃ¶w was the real coach. Klinsmann was just a face. And he always had the reputation as a bit of a simpleton (much like MatthÃ¤us in that regard). Him and being a genius are world's apart. He was one hell of a striker, though.
> *What did he do to the US program?*




It's really his coaching abilities, or lack there of, that was the major issue.

He did some really good things on a program level. I had no problem with him pushing younger players to Europe instead of MLS, and using his contacts in europe to get Americans chances. I dont know how much he got to address the youth system within US Soccer, but comments he made publicly I was completely on board with.

But man, he's just a really bad tactical coach. When you're 5 years into the role, and you're experimenting formations after a short camp against Mexico at home, something is wrong. He was just throwing **** at the wall.

He's just much better suited in a front office type role.


----------



## bleedblue1223

East Coast Bias said:


> It's really his coaching abilities, or lack there of, that was the major issue.
> 
> He did some really good things on a program level. I had no problem with him pushing younger players to Europe instead of MLS, and using his contacts in europe to get Americans chances. I dont know how much he got to address the youth system within US Soccer, but comments he made publicly I was completely on board with.
> 
> But man, he's just a really bad tactical coach. When you're 5 years into the role, and you're experimenting formations after a short camp against Mexico at home, something is wrong. He was just throwing **** at the wall.
> 
> He's just much better suited in a front office type role.




The Mexico game wasn't throwing **** at the wall, he had a purpose to it, make as free of a role for Pulisic to create as possible. Now, we don't have the back 3 or CM's to play a successful back 3 formation, and if he was a good coach, he would've known that.

H should've played a 4-4-2 diamond with Pulisic at the top of it, but a 3-5-2 or 3-4-1-2 had a purpose behind it, we just didn't have to players to execute it.


----------



## East Coast Bias

bleedblue1223 said:


> The Mexico game wasn't throwing **** at the wall, he had a purpose to it, make as free of a role for Pulisic to create as possible. Now, we don't have the back 3 or CM's to play a successful back 3 formation, and if he was a good coach, he would've known that.
> 
> H should've played a 4-4-2 diamond with Pulisic at the top of it, but a 3-5-2 or 3-4-1-2 had a purpose behind it, we just didn't have to players to execute it.




I'm not going to argue the usage of "throwing **** against the wall" because we basically agree here. 

If you're 5 years into your reign, and you don't realize you don't have the players to pull this off......

He also had what, a week, to practice this? Several players hinted that it was very quickly implemented and they didnt know what to do.


----------



## bleedblue1223

East Coast Bias said:


> I'm not going to argue the usage of "throwing **** against the wall" because we basically agree here.
> 
> If you're 5 years into your reign, and you don't realize you don't have the players to pull this off......
> 
> He also had what, a week, to practice this? Several players hinted that it was very quickly implemented and they didnt know what to do.




Completely agree there. The 3 at the back is not something you can just implement and move on. Conte with Chelsea is a prime example, you need both players and time to understand what is required because almost all of the responsibilities are changed in a rather significant way. We don't have enough ball-playing CB's, Bradley/Jones are not as active as they used to be in the middle, and while Chandler plays the formation in Germany, he hasn't shown the capabilities to play the wingback role on the international level. 

His tactical awareness at times is that of a teenager playing FIFA.


----------



## nyrleetch

Any thoughts on the January camp roster?


----------



## Big McLargehuge

nyrleetch said:


> Any thoughts on the January camp roster?




Leaving Beckerman at home is a step forward, at least.


----------



## Brock Anton

- Feilhaber and McCarty are long overdue, welcome inclusions. 
- Nice to see Manneh finally in the fold. 
- Zusi at RB might not be the worst idea (can't be worse than Chandler). 

Only negative really is more Wondo, but this is now three coaches who've had him around, so he must be really good in the locker room.


----------



## bluesfan94

The camp roster:

GOALKEEPERS (5): David Bingham (San Jose Earthquakes), Stefan Frei (Seattle Sounders FC), Bill Hamid (D.C. United), Nick Rimando (Real Salt Lake), Luis Robles (New York Red Bulls).

DEFENDERS (10): DaMarcus Beasley (Unattached), Steve Birnbaum (D.C. United), Brad Evans (Seattle Sounders FC), Greg Garza (Atlanta United FC), Matt Hedges (FC Dallas), Taylor Kemp (D.C. United), Chad Marshall (Seattle Sounders FC), Keegan Rosenberry (Philadelphia Union), Walker Zimmerman (FC Dallas), Graham Zusi (Sporting Kansas City).

MIDFIELDERS (12): Kellyn Acosta (FC Dallas), Alejandro Bedoya (Philadelphia Union), Michael Bradley (Toronto FC), Benny Feilhaber (Sporting Kansas City), Jermaine Jones (Unattached), Sacha Kljestan (New York Red Bulls), Sebastian Lletget (LA Galaxy), Kekuta Manneh (Vancouver Whitecaps FC), Dax McCarty (New York Red Bulls), Darlington Nagbe (Portland Timbers), Chris Pontius (Philadelphia Union), Wil Trapp (Columbus Crew SC).

FORWARDS (5): Juan Agudelo (New England Revolution), Jozy Altidore (Toronto FC), Jordan Morris (Seattle Sounders FC), Chris Wondolowski (San Jose Earthquakes), Gyasi Zardes (LA Galaxy).


----------



## Big McLargehuge

I have no issue with Wondolowski being on a large roster full of domestic players...now if he's on the Gold Cup roster I'll flip a table.


----------



## John Price

Very excited to see the debut of the Arena era Part Deux.


----------



## kingsboy11

Rimando, Zusi, Marshall, Birnbaum, Garza, Bradley, Jones, Bedoya, Kljestan, Nagbe, Altidore

Appears to be a 4-2-3-1
This is Jozy's 100th cap for the USMNT


----------



## Brock Anton

I really like that front 4. Nagbe-Kljestan-Bedoya-Altidore could be fun to watch.


----------



## Brock Anton

Really liking the combination play between Nagbe and Kljestan.


----------



## ecemleafs

naggers needs to play every game for us


----------



## kingsboy11

Nagbe and Kljestan have been the bright spots so fa. Garza and Zusi look kind of shaky


----------



## John Price




----------



## bleedblue1223

kingsboy11 said:


> Nagbe and Kljestan have been the bright spots so fa. Garza and Zusi look kind of shaky




At least for Zusi it makes sense. For the most part it's a new position for him and it's not like the players are in prime game shape. He's going to need a little time to get comfortable at RB. Hopefully he can make a transition like Beasley did.


----------



## ecemleafs

I thought zusi looked pretty good at rb. Have no knowledge of serbian league though so I dont know how much quality was out there to test him.


----------



## Savant

ecemleafs said:


> naggers needs to play every game for us




A different nickname may be a better choice.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Savant said:


> A different nickname may be a better choice.




I thought i was the only one..........not the best choice.


----------



## Basement Cat

East Coast Bias said:


> I thought i was the only one..........not the best choice.




Reminds me of that South Park Wheel of Fortune..."People who annoy you..."


----------



## John Price

0-0 after one


----------



## John Price

Morris! The first goal in the second arena era!


----------



## Brock Anton

Benny, Lletget and Villafana definitely played their way onto the WCQ squad IMO. McCarty and Zimmerman also put themselves in contention.


----------



## Foppa

Benny looked good very happy for him. He's never lacked the skill.


----------



## Big McLargehuge

Just think of what he could have brought to this team when he was in the best form of his career...


----------



## John Price




----------



## njdevsfn95

Yedlin out of NUFC lineup 1-2 weeks due to "thigh tear" (source: Rafa Benitez)


----------



## kingsboy11

Roster for Honduras and Panama out


> Goalkeepers: Tim Howard, Brad Guzan, Nick Rimando
> Defenders: Demarcus Beasley, Omar Gonzalez, John Brooks, Geoff Cameron, Michael Orozco, Tim Ream, Jorge Villafana, Walker Zimmerman
> Midfielders: Kellyn Acosta, Ale Bedoya, Michael Bradley, Jermaine Jones, Fabian Johnson, Sebastian Lletget, Dax McCarty, Darlington Nagbe, Christian Pulisic
> Forwards: Bobby Wood, Jozy Altidore, Clint Dempsey, Jordan Morris




Jones is suspended for the Honduras game. Yedlin is out with injury. The lack of Benny and Kljestan makes me think Bruce wants Pulisic in the middle. I'm going to game next week in San Jose and really looking forward to seeing Pulisic live.


----------



## jacobhockey13

njdevsfn95 said:


> Yedlin out of NUFC lineup 1-2 weeks due to "thigh tear" (source: Rafa Benitez)




After a second evaluation with the doctors in the U.S., he's now ruled out for 5 weeks.


----------



## bleedblue1223

I'm curious where Dwyer now falls in the forward depth chart.


----------



## chasespace

bleedblue1223 said:


> I'm curious where Dwyer now falls in the forward depth chart.




Takes Wondo's spot.


----------



## Paulie Gualtieri

Can anybody fill me in on how Bedoya is doing nowadays? He used to play for my local team.


----------



## kingsboy11

TopKex said:


> Can anybody fill me in on how Bedoya is doing nowadays? He used to play for my local team.




Currently plays for the Philadelphia Union.Still a hard working player, but not very skilled. 

Fabian Johnson replaced by Graham Zusi due to a hamstring injury. Was really hoping Arriola would've gotten a call as he's in great form right now.


----------



## Brock Anton

I wanted Arriola as well, but I guess more WCQ experience isn't a bad thing.


----------



## kingsboy11

Bobby Wood out injured. Kljestan and Besler added to the roster. I think I'm more bummed about Wood getting hurt than Johnson. Wood was in great form with Hamburg. This really changes things.


----------



## Brock Anton

I'm guessing we move to a 5 man midfield now.


----------



## ecemleafs

why the **** is this game starting so late?


----------



## IU Hawks fan

LET'S ****ing GO!!!!


----------



## IU Hawks fan

Yes!!!


----------



## spintheblackcircle

good start


----------



## SirPaste

Great start


----------



## spintheblackcircle

more of this!


----------



## spintheblackcircle

who are these guys?


----------



## IU Hawks fan

This is fun


----------



## John Price

Amazingly if the USA win today (and they look poised to do so) they go from last to 4th. It is possible for this team to qualify. They can beat Honduras and Panama and right the ship.


----------



## John Price

These officials are bad.


----------



## East Coast Bias

this is so much fun to watch. 

God I hate JK. He's the worst. He wouldn't have started Pulisic or Nagbe. And we would probably be playing with wingers as wingbacks right now.


----------



## John Price

Pulisic is too good not to start at this point  Regardless of who the gaffer is.


----------



## Brock Anton

Good lord. Deuce, Jozy and Pulisic are putting on a show.


----------



## IU Hawks fan

This is insane


----------



## Brock Anton

My god.


----------



## i aint Dunn yet

huge win ..


----------



## Live in the Now

The way people keep trying to say Pulisic has a long way to go to be as good as Donovan is pretty funny. Like for real.


----------



## kingsboy11

Just got back from the game and I'm just speechless. What a performance from the boys tonight. Deuce is back, Pulisic is insane, Jozy passing well, Brooks was a wall. Just an awesome game all around. This was my first Men's national game I've watched live in over 10 years and it was an amazing experience. Sat right next to Outlaws and they brought it the whole 90 minutes. Gotta carry this on to Panama


----------



## Hadoop

Really great to see Dempsey back in the red, white and blue. Even if his best days are behind him he sure turned back the clock last night.

Pulisic, what can you about him. 18 years old and already the best player on the USMNT.


----------



## Ugmo

They played like a team that was really happy to be rid of their last coach.


----------



## Big McLargehuge

That was definitely the most I've enjoyed a USMNT game in a long-ass time...and I think the players would say the same thing.


----------



## Brock Anton

It's almost like when you come up with a gameplan and put players in their comfortable positions, they play well. 

That was the most organized that team has looked since like the 2013 Gold Cup.


----------



## Ugmo

Brock Anton said:


> It's almost like when you come up with a gameplan and put players in their comfortable positions, they play well.
> 
> That was the most organized that team has looked since like the 2013 Gold Cup.




Yep.  Our long national nightmare is over.

Well, one of them at least...


----------



## ecemleafs

what psychopath has been involved with the kickoff times for the usa games? 10pm start on a ****ing tuesday night after an 11pm friday night start?


----------



## IU Hawks fan

ecemleafs said:


> what psychopath has been involved with the kickoff times for the usa games? 10pm start on a ****ing tuesday night after an 11pm friday night start?




I believe the home team (and thus home TV rights holder) chooses the start time. Don't know why they had to wait til 8 PT on Friday. Did FS1 air the Mexico game, maybe they wanted a doubleheader?

In Panama, they probably want to wait til it's cooler later on. Not playing til 9 is pretty common (Panama is on EST, so in line with CT currently)


----------



## hockeykicker

Wait this game isn't on tv in USA?


----------



## IU Hawks fan

It's on BeIN. 

Ugh, just realized I don't get it in HD. I only get BeIN EspaÃ±ol in it, which I can SAP for the English broadcast, but they've got CONMEBOL games tonight.


----------



## Halladay

Dont lose.


----------



## jacobhockey13

IU Hawks fan said:


> It's on BeIN.
> 
> Ugh, just realized I don't get it in HD. I only get BeIN EspaÃ±ol in it, which I can SAP for the English broadcast, but they've got CONMEBOL games tonight.




Telemundo and NBC Universo as well. I have those but not BeIN.


----------



## IU Hawks fan

Yeah, debating just watching in Spanish for better video quality.


----------



## SirPaste

This game is gonna get ugly


----------



## jacobhockey13

Bradley's always going to be a polarizing player.


----------



## jacobhockey13

Lol Pulisic


----------



## ecemleafs

puli to deuce. respek.


----------



## SirPaste

Pulisic is so good


----------



## jacobhockey13

Unlucky for Panama as they've looked good but karma for the cynical fouls.


----------



## jacobhockey13

SirPaste said:


> Pulisic is so good




We're also going to get to see him play defense because of Zusi and GonzÃ¡lez.


----------



## ecemleafs

ream and gonzalez are a horror show


----------



## jacobhockey13

The U.S. backline has unsurprisingly been terrible.


----------



## IU Hawks fan

Ugh...


----------



## SirPaste

jacobhockey13 said:


> The U.S. backline has unsurprisingly been terrible.




Just brutal


----------



## ecemleafs

zusi has no idea whats going on. ream just isnt tough enough to play CB at a high level. gonzalez is just so clumsy.


----------



## jacobhockey13

SirPaste said:


> Just brutal




Yeah. The worst thing is that even without taking into account the lack of ability to mark and make tackles, there's nobody there who can advance the ball up the field. Multiple times they've made a stop and then just given it right back to Panama. Zusi, Ream, and GonzÃ¡lez are possession black holes if they're asked to make more than a three yard pass or run. That's why I think Bradley is playing especially deep tonight, but he needs to do a better job of filling that role.


----------



## jacobhockey13

Geoff Cameron at 50% is better than most of what we have out there. Can't play him though.


----------



## jacobhockey13

que se chinguen estos Ã¡rbitros mexicanos

Clear foul on Pulisic once again not called


----------



## jacobhockey13

What a save from Howard


----------



## StatesideSensFan

Phil Schoen and Jay DeMerit are terrible.


----------



## jacobhockey13

StatesideSensFan said:


> Phil Schoen and Jay DeMerit are terrible.




Commentator on Telemundo was screaming for a handball on Bradley until he watched the replay.


----------



## jacobhockey13

Ok time to bring on Kellyn Acosta.


----------



## jacobhockey13

Bedoya for Nagbe? I guess there aren't many other options.


----------



## StatesideSensFan

Acosta for Jermaine


----------



## jacobhockey13

Lol these refs


----------



## Brock Anton

Take the point and get the hell out of dodge.


----------



## jacobhockey13

Bradley played very well against Honduras, but he was awful tonight. At this point, the USMNT is better when Jermaine Jones is out of the lineup. I'm content with a point from this one given how poor the U.S. were. 

Still though, the refereeing was horrid. Somebody said that Honduras racked up 5 fouls in 10 minutes, something that would draw a yellow in any credible league in the world. The constant pushing and shoving was annoying. The U.S. struggles in the air, and that was a major factor in Panama's control. Altidore's a striker who thrives when he has service and is bad when he doesn't, so I hope Arena plays Pulisic in the 10 role regardless of circumstances. I think this night just showed how vital Geoff Cameron is. The back line is what it was but getting Yedlin back as somebody who can move the ball from the right back position will also help.


----------



## SJSharks72

What is everyone's ideal lineup right now?

Mine would be
Altidore/Morris-Dempsey
Pulisic
Johnson-Nagbe
Bradley
Villafana-Cameron-Brooks-Yedlin
Howard


----------



## jacobhockey13

SJSharks39 said:


> What is everyone's ideal lineup right now?
> 
> Mine would be
> Altidore/Morris-Dempsey
> Pulisic
> Johnson-Nagbe
> Bradley
> Villafana-Cameron-Brooks-Yedlin
> Howard




Altidore/Dempsey 
Pulisic-Zardes 
Johnson-Bradley-Cameron
Villafana/Lichaj-Brooks-Chandler-Yedlin
Howard​
Dempsey has looked good but is bound to decline soon. Giving Pulisic and Bardes freedom to move past Jozy and will make life easier for him. Jozy has thrived with Giovinco doing that in Toronto. Gyasi's pace is obviously a weapon so he should stay high whereas Pulisic can track back if he feels the need to. Then I think the midfield offers good defensive ability. Cameron is a great midfielder and I think if Chandler isn't awful then that option should be exploited. He allows for overlap with Yedlin. Cameron's physicality is huge in Concacaf and he looked great playing there against Honduras. Also allows for us to win the ball early and ffed attackers rather than having to sit back. Nagbe coming off the bench for Barde would also be great allowing both to run at pretty much top gear for the majority of the match. Altidore/Dempsey is also a guy who I would sub with Wood.


----------



## ecemleafs

Wood
Dempsey Pulisic
Johnson Bradley Nagbe
Villafana Brooks Cameron Yedlin
Howard

Bradley is now unfortunately the weak link though. Dude is washed up before 30. Lost all of his athleticism, his first touch is terrible, and he never takes space when its given to him.


----------



## bluesfan94

Wood
Pulisic - Dempsey
Nagbe - Bradley - Acosta (?)
Johnson - Brooks - Cameron - Yedlin
Howard​


----------



## Basement Cat

ecemleafs said:


> Wood
> Dempsey Pulisic
> Johnson Bradley Nagbe
> Villafana Brooks Cameron Yedlin
> Howard
> 
> Bradley is now unfortunately the weak link though. Dude is washed up before 30. Lost all of his athleticism, his first touch is terrible, and he never takes space when its given to him.




This is our best 11 right now.



jacobhockey13 said:


> Altidore/Dempsey
> Pulisic-Zardes
> Johnson-Bradley-Cameron
> Villafana/Lichaj-Brooks-Chandler-Yedlin
> Howard​
> Dempsey has looked good but is bound to decline soon. Giving Pulisic and Bardes freedom to move past Jozy and will make life easier for him. Jozy has thrived with Giovinco doing that in Toronto. Gyasi's pace is obviously a weapon so he should stay high whereas Pulisic can track back if he feels the need to. Then I think the midfield offers good defensive ability. Cameron is a great midfielder and I think if Chandler isn't awful then that option should be exploited. He allows for overlap with Yedlin. Cameron's physicality is huge in Concacaf and he looked great playing there against Honduras. Also allows for us to win the ball early and ffed attackers rather than having to sit back. Nagbe coming off the bench for Barde would also be great allowing both to run at pretty much top gear for the majority of the match. Altidore/Dempsey is also a guy who I would sub with Wood.




Chandler at CB???? My lord, please no.


----------



## SJSharks72

Has Acosta played CB? Or is he more of a CDM?


----------



## Basement Cat

SJSharks39 said:


> Has Acosta played CB? Or is he more of a CDM?




He's played CDM and box to box a ton for Dallas. He's also played some LB and a bit of RB (less so). Same goes for the U-20s.


----------



## SJSharks72

Basement Cat said:


> He's played CDM and box to box a ton for Dallas. He's also played some LB and a bit of RB (less so). Same goes for the U-20s.




That's what I thought. I could see him being a long term replacement for Bradley.


----------



## Basement Cat

SJSharks39 said:


> That's what I thought. I could see him being a long term replacement for Bradley.




Definitely. I would love it if he could turn into a Jermaine Jones in-his-prime type of player. Partner him with either Hyndman or Zelalem with Pulisic at the #10 could be an exiting central midfield trio for the future.


----------



## nyrleetch

Wasn't sure where to ask this. But if USA/Canada/Mexico get the 2026 WC. Would all three get an autobid? How does it work with three nations hosting.


----------



## kingsboy11

nyrleetch said:


> Wasn't sure where to ask this. But if USA/Canada/Mexico get the 2026 WC. Would all three get an autobid? How does it work with three nations hosting.




I'm going to assume they will because I think that may be the world cup with 48 teams so they could probably afford to have 3 automatic bids.


----------



## kingsboy11

nyrleetch said:


> Wasn't sure where to ask this. But if USA/Canada/Mexico get the 2026 WC. Would all three get an autobid? How does it work with three nations hosting.




http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2207423

Here is the thread you're looking for.


----------



## kingsboy11

OALKEEPERS: Brad Guzan (Atlanta United FC), Ethan Horvath (Club Brugge), Tim Howard (Colorado Rapids), Nick Rimando (Real Salt Lake)

DEFENDERS: DaMarcus Beasley (Houston Dynamo), Matt Besler (Sporting Kansas City), John Brooks (Hertha Berlin), Geoff Cameron (Stoke City), Timmy Chandler (Eintracht Frankfurt), Omar Gonzalez (Pachuca), Matt Hedges (FC Dallas), Tim Ream (Fulham), Jorge VillafaÃ±a (Santos Laguna), DeAndre Yedlin (Newcastle United), Graham Zusi (Sporting Kansas City)

MIDFIELDERS: Kellyn Acosta (FC Dallas), Paul Arriola (Club Tijuana), Alejandro Bedoya (Philadelphia Union), Michael Bradley (Toronto FC), Fabian Johnson (Borussia Moenchengladbach), Dax McCarty (Chicago Fire), Darlington Nagbe (Portland Timbers), Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund)

FORWARDS: Jozy Altidore (Toronto FC), Clint Dempsey (Seattle Sounders FC), Jordan Morris (Seattle Sounders FC), Bobby Wood (Hamburg SV)

Here is the roster for the upcoming qualifiers against T&T and Mexico. Everyone is pretty much healthy for these games. Curious how Bruce is going to fit Dempsey, Pulisic, Altidore and Wood


----------



## Live in the Now

Wood off the bench if it were me.


----------



## bluesfan94

DeMarcus Beasley just keeps going.


----------



## hockeykicker

usa back to wc qualifying tonight vs trinidad tonight at 8pm in colorado

before playing mexico in mexico on sunday


----------



## hockeykicker




----------



## kingsboy11

Howard;Yedlin, Cameron, Brooks, Villafana; Nagbe, Bradley, Pulisic, Johnson; Altidore, Dempsey

Bruce rolling out the same lineup. Weird.


----------



## The Zetterberg Era

kingsboy11 said:


> Howard;Yedlin, Cameron, Brooks, Villafana; Nagbe, Bradley, Pulisic, Johnson; Altidore, Dempsey
> 
> Bruce rolling out the same lineup. Weird.




We have to get 3 points tonight, this is the game you go all in on and make sure you take care of.


----------



## hockeykicker

The Zetterberg Era said:


> We have to get 3 points tonight, this is the game you go all in on and make sure you take care of.




agree completely. they cant lose this game knowing they have to try and win in mexico on sunday


----------



## kingsboy11

The Zetterberg Era said:


> We have to get 3 points tonight, this is the game you go all in on and make sure you take care of.




I was mostly taking a dig at Klinnsman


----------



## jacobhockey13

kingsboy11 said:


> I was mostly taking a dig at Klinnsman




Don't worry Johnson is going to eventually shift to striker and Cameron is going to take Pulisic's place as the 10.


----------



## ecemleafs

Altidore and dempsey need to get off their ***** and get in the box and show some urgency when the ball is near.


----------



## hockeykicker

trinidad should have scored there


----------



## hockeykicker

this trinidad goalie is standing on his head


----------



## Live in the Now

Meh. They're shooting it straight at him.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Cp10!!!!!


----------



## spintheblackcircle

CP10 x2!!!!!!!!!


----------



## spintheblackcircle

That was a great pass by Altidore. 

First goal was a great cross by Yedlin.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Wood hits wood!


----------



## kingsboy11

Our Lord and Savior comes through again


----------



## The Zetterberg Era

CP says they will come away with a victory @ Mexico...

Well the savior sure is confident.


----------



## jacobhockey13

The Zetterberg Era said:


> CP says they will come away with a victory @ Mexico...
> 
> Well the savior sure is confident.




I'm killing myself for not going. Could you imagine being there for the first win?


----------



## Live in the Now

They're not going to win. I think the team is actually pretty poor at the moment. I would also like to change my mind from what I said before and put Dempsey on the bench.


----------



## jacobhockey13

Live in the Now said:


> They're not going to win. I think the team is actually pretty poor at the moment. I would also like to change my mind from what I said before and put Dempsey on the bench.




Completely agree. It's just that one of these times they're going to eke out a fluke win and I want to be there.


----------



## Gambar

538 article on Pulisic


----------



## hockeykicker

so what happens tonight with usa? on the road in mexico


----------



## Halladay

hockeykicker said:


> so what happens tonight with usa? on the road in mexico




They lose. Probably need at least 7 points from the last 4 games.


----------



## kingsboy11

Guzan; Ream, Gonzalez, Cameron; Beasley, Bradley, Acosta, Arriola, Yedlin; Pulisic, Wood

Well its certainly different than what I expected. I say at this point we have nothing left to lose. This is almost always a guaranteed loss. Might as well try something different.


----------



## John Price

**** mexico


----------



## John Price

hockeykicker said:


> so what happens tonight with usa? on the road in mexico




draw


----------



## Ugmo

Does Beasley still have it or is this another case of Bruce playing his favorites until they're old and decrepit?


----------



## Live in the Now

Ugmo said:


> Does Beasley still have it or is this another case of Bruce playing his favorites until they're old and decrepit?



It's more a case of going for 0-0 for 65 minutes and making the necessary adjustments to either get the point or go for it.

It is still not a good lineup, but everyone wanted Klinsmann out and this is what we get. Guzan does not belong playing whatsoever.


----------



## SJSharks72

kingsboy11 said:


> Guzan; Ream, Gonzalez, Cameron; Beasley, Bradley, Acosta, Arriola, Yedlin; Pulisic, Wood
> 
> Well its certainly different than what I expected. I say at this point we have nothing left to lose. This is almost always a guaranteed loss. Might as well try something different.




Are they going with a 3-6-1?


----------



## kingsboy11

SJSharks39 said:


> Are they going with a 3-6-1?




Looks more like a 3-4-3 with Pulisic and Arriola up with Wood


----------



## SJSharks72

kingsboy11 said:


> Looks more like a 3-4-3 with Pulisic and Arriola up with Wood




Pulisic needs to be central.


----------



## bleedblue1223

SJSharks39 said:


> Pulisic needs to be central.




It'll be a 3-4-3, and Pulisic gets a free role like Hazard with Chelsea.


----------



## Cory Trevor

bleedblue1223 said:


> It'll be a 3-4-3, and Pulisic gets a free role like Hazard with Chelsea.




Pulisic on the left with Bobby Wood up top but think it'll be wherever the kid is feeling comfortable as the game goes on.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Cory Trevor said:


> Pulisic on the left with Bobby Wood up top but think it'll be wherever the kid is feeling comfortable as the game goes on.




Exactly.


----------



## Ugmo

Live in the Now said:


> It's more a case of going for 0-0 for 65 minutes and making the necessary adjustments to either get the point or go for it.
> 
> It is still not a good lineup, but everyone wanted Klinsmann out and this is what we get. Guzan does not belong playing whatsoever.




I definitely wanted Klinsmann out. He was horrible. At least I'm now relatively confident that we'll qualify.


----------



## kingsboy11

Salcedo should already be off the field. 2 flying elbows in less than a minute


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Bradley!!!!!!!!


----------



## hockeykicker

holy crap they scored


----------



## The Zetterberg Era

So the guy from Mexico commits a yellow card foul and then a red card foul and has none.... 

We should be up 1-0 with them down a man...


----------



## Bakayoko Ono

That was a grat goal.


----------



## Halladay

Already more exciting the last qualifier there in Azteca.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Holy cow, top notch.

Heard someone in building yell out GOAL!!!!!! Nice to hear that


----------



## kingsboy11

dhjafdhjsaiufewlijfwfsdhwhfSDfe;

Michael ****ing Bradley!!!!!!


----------



## vwg*

Beautiful play by Bradley


----------



## Live in the Now

What a hit!


----------



## East Coast Bias

That was gorgeous. 

Someone two foot Salcedo now.


----------



## Cory Trevor

Sick goal. Caught Memo off his line.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

dicey....


----------



## spintheblackcircle

holy crap, what a transition!


----------



## vwg*

LOL what in the world was Geoff Cameron doing there?


----------



## hockeykicker

go from a should have been goal to make it 2-0 to 1-1


----------



## The Zetterberg Era

hockeykicker said:


> go from a should have been goal to make it 2-0 to 1-1




I am still pretty mad they are playing with 11 men...


----------



## SJSharks72

This ref is ****ing awful


----------



## Halladay

The Zetterberg Era said:


> I am still pretty mad they are playing with 11 men...




Cant expect them to get any calls there.


----------



## The Zetterberg Era

BlameUtley said:


> Cant expect them to get any calls there.




I can expect the ref to do his job...

They might not, but for him to not even get a single card in that exchange is inexcusable. I don't care where the game is the second one is a straight red.


----------



## theprofessor

How many goals would Robben score on Beasley?


----------



## The Zetterberg Era

theprofessor said:


> How many goals would Robben score on Beasley?




It is pretty sad that nobody stepped up from the middle. I don't like how he defended it, but there has to be help from the middle and those guys were just ball watching.


----------



## bleedblue1223

The Zetterberg Era said:


> It is pretty sad that nobody stepped up from the middle. I don't like how he defended it, but there has to be help from the middle and those guys were just ball watching.




Yep, there were multiple breakdowns on it.


----------



## kingsboy11

This reffing is absolutely atrocious, but that should be expected. Salcedo should've been off the field in the 3rd minute and Yedlin is the only one at half with a yellow. 

Despite the awful officiating I think they played fairly well. Que Golazo by Bradley though. Bad breakdown on Vela's goal. We have options coming off the bench to change the game though. Just get through this last 45.


----------



## kingsboy11

I'm ecstatic with a draw. Came in expecting a loss and came away with a result with that lineup.


----------



## njdevsfn95

Table:
Mexico 14 (6 GP)
Costa Rica 8
United States 8 (6 GP)
Panama 6
Honduras 4
T&T 3

All nations equal in GP on Tuesday night

In September
v Costa Rica
@ Honduras

In October
v Panama
@ T&T


----------



## Ugmo

Great result.


----------



## hockeykicker

take that and get out of there


----------



## Live in the Now

Reffing wasn't all that bad considering what has happened to officiating the last year. Straight red cards have mostly vanished from the game. 

Good result.


----------



## The Zetterberg Era

kingsboy11 said:


> I'm ecstatic with a draw. Came in expecting a loss and came away with a result with that lineup.




I will always take a result on the road against Mexico. Feel the same way about Costa Rica as well in terms of I don't expect much on the road. 

Still it is absolutely pathetic that Salcedo didn't see a single card. Especially considering the ref carded Yedlin for persistent fouling. That ref should be embarrassed. But take the point and move on.


----------



## The Zetterberg Era

njdevsfn95 said:


> Table:
> Mexico 14 (6 GP)
> Costa Rica 8
> United States 8 (6 GP)
> Panama 6
> Honduras 4
> T&T 3
> 
> All nations equal in GP on Tuesday night
> 
> In September
> v Costa Rica
> @ Honduras
> 
> In October
> v Panama
> @ T&T




I am pretty sure the home teams are the opposite of that.


----------



## njdevsfn95

That's our schedule. We've hosted Mexico, Honduras, and T&T so now we've gotta face them away. After tonight that leaves the last two. Means we've got Costa Rica an Panama remaining at home.


----------



## Brock Anton

That was Bradley's best game for the NT in years. Not a coincidence that it came because he was paired with an actual, competent, midfielder. Acosta does a ton of dirty work and doesn't roam like Jones, we should really go with those two in the center going forward.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Was Bradley's goal the best goal that has been scored by anyone for the National Team?


----------



## KingLB

Brock Anton said:


> That was Bradley's best game for the NT in years. Not a coincidence that it came because he was paired with an actual, competent, midfielder. Acosta does a ton of dirty work and doesn't roam like Jones, we should really go with those two in the center going forward.




I've been begging for Jones' bench for years. The US needs to move past a few of the dinosaurs in the line-up that kill the team game...Dempsey is next imo. This cycle for me is really a retooling cycle. Hope Arena gets Acosta and Miazga in the team this summer. And a few other young players over the coarse of the next year, we really seem to finally be producing international quality players regularly, and I hope Arena isn't to tied to Dinosaurs to move forward like he was in 06. I want 02 Bruce


----------



## KingLB

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Was Bradley's goal the best goal that has been scored by anyone for the National Team?




Felhaber GC winner vs Mexico, was nicer imo. Or Donovan vs Mexico in 02' or Algeria in 10' just cause the historical perspective.

Honorable mention Edu in 10'


----------



## jacobhockey13

Bradley was great. Cameron was immense. Yedlin looked really good aside from maybe two plays. Acosta really stabilized us. That was a great showing from the team.


----------



## jacobhockey13

kingsboy11 said:


> Salcedo should already be off the field. 2 flying elbows in less than a minute




The Univision commentators ignored it. That made me so mad that I'm going to watch in English whenever possible.


----------



## GabeTravels

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Was Bradley's goal the best goal that has been scored by anyone for the National Team?




Jones against Portugal in the last WC was pretty epic.

Dempsey's in the first minute against Ghana. (The strike wasn't special, but the touch receiving the pass was quite nice.)


Excited to get a point tonight, and it's nice our home games left are against the two teams closest to us in the table.


----------



## Ugmo

I'm partial to this one because of the entire play, including the pass by Adu:


----------



## bleedblue1223

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Was Bradley's goal the best goal that has been scored by anyone for the National Team?




Not even close IMO. In the grand scheme of things it wasn't a goal with high importance and while skillful, it was more of a couple mistakes by Mexico. 

If his volley went in, then that one would've been up there.


----------



## DaveG

Ugmo said:


> I'm partial to this one because of the entire play, including the pass by Adu:





Hell of a pass by Adu to the wing. Pity he never sniffed living up to the hype.


----------



## kingsboy11

Gold Cup Roster announced:

Guzan, Hamid, Johnson; 
Besler, Gonzalez, Miazga, Lichaj, Morrow, Villafana, Zusi; Roldan, McCarty, Arriola, Acosta, Rowe, Zardes, Bedoya, Corona, Saief;
Morris, Aguedelo, Dwyer 

Rumor has Jesse Gonzalez joining the team in the group stage. Overall very MLS heavy. Glad to see Miazga, Saief and Roldan in there. Zardes has no business being anywhere near this roster and has been straight up garbage this season for the Galaxy.


----------



## Ugmo

kingsboy11 said:


> Gold Cup Roster announced:
> 
> Guzan, Hamid, Johnson;
> Besler, Gonzalez, Miazga, Lichaj, Morrow, Villafana, Zusi; Roldan, McCarty, Arriola, Acosta, Rowe, Zardes, Bedoya, Corona, Saief;
> Morris, Aguedelo, Dwyer
> 
> Rumor has Jesse Gonzalez joining the team in the group stage. Overall very MLS heavy. Glad to see Miazga, Saief and Roldan in there. Zardes has no business being anywhere near this roster and has been straight up garbage this season for the Galaxy.




I'm excited to see Dwyer on the roster, even though he hasn't been having a great season so far (at least as far as I can tell from his statistics).


----------



## Jersey Fresh

At least Saief was honest and said he just wanted to play in a WC, which of course the US has a much easier path to qualification. He would have been called into the Israeli NT against Spain if he wasn't injured a while back. Says nothing for the fact he should have been called up a long time ago if the FA wasn't such a dumpster fire.

Good luck to him.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Ugmo said:


> I'm excited to see Dwyer on the roster, even though he hasn't been having a great season so far (at least as far as I can tell from his statistics).




SKC's offense took a little bit to gel together and once it did, Dwyer got banged up. I honestly wouldn't expect a ton from him, he's still getting back to top form, but he's definitely getting closer.


----------



## Basement Cat

Guys who I will be keeping an eye on and hope stand out...

-Matt Miazga, first and foremost. As a Red Bull fan, Polish-American, and someone who has got to meet Matt a few times, I may be a bit bias but I am pulling for him hard to make the WC team. I think that he has the potential to be our best CB for the next decade and I have no doubt that he would be one of our top 4 CBs right now had he stayed with NYRB. I completely understand why he left and I think that is better long-term.

-Acosta. Keep that momentum from the impressive WCQ games going.

-Roldan/Saeif. Want to see what we have in these two.

-Dax. Just because I think he is the man.


----------



## bluesfan94

I think CCV > Miazga but I'm high on both.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

bluesfan94 said:


> I think CCV > Miazga but I'm high on both.




Miazga is playing regularly, Carter-Vickers is not. 

Thats the main difference right now. 

Then again, Miazga is two and a half years older, but if we are talking about for the 2018 World Cup, I think Miazga has a much better chance to make the team.


----------



## bluesfan94

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> Miazga is playing regularly, Carter-Vickers is not.
> 
> Thats the main difference right now.
> 
> Then again, Miazga is two and a half years older, but if we are talking about for the 2018 World Cup, I think Miazga has a much better chance to make the team.




I'm talking about best CB for the next decade. I think it'll be CCV. 

Also CBs, particularly young CBs nearing breakthrough, should train with their future partners as much as possible because communication and intuitive understanding of your partner's positioning is the most important thing a young CB can learn. This goes both to CCV and Rugani in a different thread.


----------



## IU Hawks fan

Jesse Gonzalez's switch from Mexico has been approved by FIFA.


----------



## oconnor9sean

IU Hawks fan said:


> Jesse Gonzalez's switch from Mexico has been approved by FIFA.




That's great news for the US. I think he's got the best chance to be the starter of the future. He's so good.


----------



## Savant

oconnor9sean said:


> That's great news for the US. I think he's got the best chance to be the starter of the future. He's so good.




Is Gonzalez the best young USA born keeper in the pool?


----------



## kingsboy11

Savant said:


> Is Gonzalez the best young USA born keeper in the pool?




I personally think Horvath is the best young keeper, but Gonzalez is good too.


----------



## Savant

kingsboy11 said:


> I personally think Horvath is the best young keeper, but Gonzalez is good too.




That's what I am inclined to believe as well.


----------



## bluesfan94

kingsboy11 said:


> I personally think Horvath is the best young keeper, but Gonzalez is good too.




hah. Literally said the same in the prospect thread. Having multiple young goalies is good. At one point Zack Steffen would have been the answer to the best young keeper.


----------



## kingsboy11

Friendly against Ghana about to start

Lineup is Guzan; Villafana, Besler, Hedges, Zusi; Corona, Acosta, McCarty, Rowe; Arriola, Dwyer

Rowe and Dywer making their first caps.


----------



## Live in the Now

Very nice goal by Dwyer.


----------



## Brock Anton

I see so much Eddie Johnson in Dwyer. He's going to be a menace in CONCACAF.


----------



## kingsboy11

Had a feeling Dwyer would score tonight. I think Eddie Johnson comparison is apt


----------



## Live in the Now

I don't like the comparison too much.

EJ was a lot more physically gifted and was pretty lazy.

Dwyer on the other hand is a bulldog.


----------



## kingsboy11

Live in the Now said:


> I don't like the comparison too much.
> 
> EJ was a lot more physically gifted and was pretty lazy.
> 
> Dwyer on the other hand is a bulldog.




I think the comparison is more on the goal scoring ability rather than play style


----------



## Live in the Now

Acosta will be playing in Europe soon.


----------



## kingsboy11

kingsboy11 said:


> Friendly against Ghana about to start
> 
> Lineup is Guzan; Villafana, Besler, Hedges, Zusi; Corona, Acosta, McCarty, Rowe; Arriola, Dwyer
> 
> Rowe and Dywer making their first caps.




Same lineup against Ghana except Gonzalez in for Hedges and Bedoya in for Arriola


----------



## bluesfan94

Against Panama, you mean.


----------



## nyrleetch

I really don't like Bedoya starting even in a gold cup


----------



## Live in the Now

Bedoya and Corona have been really far below expectations.


----------



## kingsboy11

Decision making across the board has been really slow and poor especially Corona and Bedoya. I don't know if its the heat or what, but that was a disappointing half.


----------



## Savant

Live in the Now said:


> Bedoya and Corona have been really far below expectations.




No reason they should have made the team either


----------



## John Price

Bruce Arena is undefeated in his second run as US head boss.


----------



## Ugmo

G F O P said:


> Bruce Arena is undefeated in his second run as US head boss.




If you ever want your team to play well, hire JÃ¼rgen Klinsmann and then fire him again... every team Klinsmann leaves/gets fired from catches fire!


----------



## spintheblackcircle

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2017/08/03/newcastle-usmnt-defender-deandre-yedlin-injures-hamstring/

DeAndre Yedlin will miss the start of the 2017-18 Premier League season and he may not be ready for the the USMNT’s two crucial 2018 World Cup qualifiers in September.

The Newcastle United right back injured his hamstring in a preseason game against Mainz last week and Yedlin, 24, will now be out until the end of August.


----------



## kingsboy11

spintheblackcircle said:


> http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2017/08/03/newcastle-usmnt-defender-deandre-yedlin-injures-hamstring/
> 
> DeAndre Yedlin will miss the start of the 2017-18 Premier League season and he may not be ready for the the USMNTâ€™s two crucial 2018 World Cup qualifiers in September.
> 
> The Newcastle United right back injured his hamstring in a preseason game against Mainz last week and Yedlin, 24, will now be out until the end of August.




**** we're going to start Zusi in qualifying aren't we


----------



## bleedblue1223

kingsboy11 said:


> **** we're going to start Zusi in qualifying aren't we




He's been fine IMO.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Chandler, Cameron, Johnson and Lichaj can all play that position. Zusi should not see the field, should not get called up.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Lichaj was not very good, Johnson will and should be on the left, Chandler needs more consistency with the USMNT, and Cameron is still probably best suited at being the ball-playing CB. Zusi is definitely worthy of getting called up.

Yedlin and Chandler should be ahead of him, but Zusi is fine for a back-up type role.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## kingsboy11

Roster for the qualifying game released :

Howard, Guzan, Rimando;
Gonzalez, Besler, Cameron, Johnson, Beasley, Lichaj, Zusi, VillafaÃ±a, Hedges, Ream;
Pulisic, Arriola, Bradley, Roldan, Acosta, Bedoya, McCarty, Nagbe;
Altidor, Dempsey, Wood, Morris, Wondolowski...


----------



## bleedblue1223

Why do they keep bring Wondo back?


----------



## sabremike

This is VERY important info for anyone going to the game Friday: Do NOT park in Harrison, park across the bridge in Newark and either walk or take the free shuttle from Newark Penn. If you park in Harrison you can expect to still be there hours after the game ends because the traffic will be a total nightmare. Don't say you haven't been warned.


----------



## hockeykicker

is it fair to say that a win over costa rica friday and usa are safe and clinch?

that would just leave panama and trinidad at home and honduras on road


----------



## Savant

sabremike said:


> This is VERY important info for anyone going to the game Friday: Do NOT park in Harrison, park across the bridge in Newark and either walk or take the free shuttle from Newark Penn. If you park in Harrison you can expect to still be there hours after the game ends because the traffic will be a total nightmare. Don't say you haven't been warned.




Definitely take the train


----------



## kingsboy11

hockeykicker said:


> is it fair to say that a win over costa rica friday and usa are safe and clinch?
> 
> that would just leave panama and trinidad at home and honduras on road




Win against Costa Rica and Panama and hope Panama loses or draws against Mexico on Friday. Then id feel comfortable


----------



## TheSituation

sabremike said:


> This is VERY important info for anyone going to the game Friday: Do NOT park in Harrison, park across the bridge in Newark and either walk or take the free shuttle from Newark Penn. If you park in Harrison you can expect to still be there hours after the game ends because the traffic will be a total nightmare. Don't say you haven't been warned.



Just take the PATH if you're from the city. Don't even think about driving to Harrison.


----------



## kingsboy11

Lineup is out 

Altidore-Wood
Johnson-Nagbe-Bradley-Pulisic
Villafana-Ream-Cameron-Zusi
Howard

Not too surprised. Glad to see Wood and Jozy up top together. Interesting that Bruce went with Pulisic out wide and Nagbe in the middle.


----------



## Live in the Now

Altidore needed to shoot his chance first time.


----------



## AdmiralsFan24

Howard needed to be a lot better on that goal.


----------



## AdmiralsFan24

Cameron has been a disaster.


----------



## John Price

That Costa Rica goal sucks but we are looking alright offensively and we have had ample chances. Just finish strong! You can do it!


----------



## kingsboy11

Going forward they actually look pretty decent. Got robbed of a penalty and Guzman was lucky to not have gotten sent off after his stomp on Nagbe. But Pulisic, Johnson and Wood are not getting enough touches on the ball. 

But defensively they look terrible. Ream and Cameron have no chemsistry and were way too far apart on the goal. Howard's angle was completely off on the goal too. I think this side will get a goal at some point in the 2nd half, but it's really up to the defense to sort itself out. Villafana gets caught up the field too often and Ream and Cameron are not good at distribution out of the back. I'd never thought I'd say that Zusi was our best defender that half.


----------



## John Price

They had one defensive mistake. Otherwise I didn't notice anything that stood out hut I'm bery drunk right now.


----------



## AdmiralsFan24

This referee is a joke.


----------



## Live in the Now

Jozy needs to be dropped. He's not bringing anything to the team right now.


----------



## Cody Webster

Here comes the savior


----------



## Cody Webster

Holy crap what a save


----------



## Balance

Bobby Wood is horrible


----------



## Cody Webster

Smooth Altidore.....smooooth


----------



## Cody Webster

Well that's embarrassing


----------



## dogbazinho

I hope we find a new coach and a striker by the next wc


----------



## Live in the Now

Bad team selection for sure. 

18 year olds aren't going to do the business every game either.


----------



## Johnnyduke

BREAKING: We are not very good


----------



## Sacha Baron Corbin

That...was not good.


----------



## John Price

The only positive is that they lost against the top two in the group. Everyone else is true garbage. Us can finish third or fourth without issue.


----------



## HajdukSplit

immense pressure on the US to get a result in Honduras now


----------



## Live in the Now

They'll probably lose in Honduras too. 

I expect the US to be playing Syria or Australia in November to qualify.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Like I've been saying for awhile, there just isn't enough quality to select from.


----------



## Johnnyduke

Pathetic all around


----------



## HajdukSplit

Dempsey *could* have been sent off


----------



## Johnnyduke

Live in the Now said:


> They'll probably lose in Honduras too.
> 
> I expect the US to be playing Syria or Australia in November to qualify.




Would missing entirely be a better result if you think we need a complete overhaul?


----------



## HajdukSplit

Twellman and Darke bashing US Soccer for putting this game in NJ 

Easy to say in hindsight, if US were winning 2:0 they wouldn't mention this, its just all the US fans went home


----------



## gary69

Alberth Elis is pretty good though, not sure if USA can keep him off the scoresheet.

An away draw against Honduras would be good enough result though.


----------



## sabremike

HajdukSplit said:


> immense pressure on the US to get a result in Honduras now



Honduras has been so bad that it was the more winnable game. If we can't get a result against them forget about it.


----------



## sabremike

HajdukSplit said:


> Twellman and Darke bashing US Soccer for putting this game in NJ
> 
> Easy to say in hindsight, if US were winning 2:0 they wouldn't mention this, its just all the US fans went home



They need to just shut the **** up. The crowd had NOTHING to do with tonight, we flat out sucked. We could've played the game at Fort Bragg and the result would've been the same.


----------



## Dr. Ogrodnick

Gullati should be fired, but it will never happen.


----------



## kingsboy11

Worst performance of the year. Absolutely unacceptable from the top down. It starts by having a ref who has no clue what the **** he was doing out there. And then starting Ream who had zero chemistry with Cameron and probably should've started Besler instead. And then its stuff you really can't predict like Pulisic showing his age, Cameron who couldn't make a 5 yard pass, Jozy and Wood not taking their chances, Johnson who is coming off injury, and Villafana who goes forward too often, and finally Tim Howard making mistakes that he usually never makes. And even before the match it was someone's brilliant idea to put this game at Red Bull Arena with a lot of Costa Rican fans. It was a perfect storm and now we have our backs up against the wall again. The only word that comes to mind to descrive this performance is unacceptable. This team is a lot better than this and they need to prove it against Honduras.


----------



## John Price

Grant Wahl said Mexico once went winless in hex qualifying and made the world cup. That's an indictment on how ridiculously easy hex qualifying is.

There's going to be a lot of overreaction and anger after this. But Costa Rica is good. Mexico is good. The US has only lost to those two. Everyone else was beaten. Everyone else can be beaten.

That being said the Honduras game becomes important now. You win or tie there and things clear up a lot. It's not going to be easy. But it's not impossible to qualify and odds are in favor of this team making it through. Either way, third or fourth place this team is going to qualify. I don't think you have to worry about the US missing their first world cup in like 20 years.


----------



## sabremike

Newsflash: you could've put the game anywhere in the country and there would be lots of Ticos. They travel. Did you see their game in Aztecs where they packed the entire back of the upper deck with traveling supporters?


----------



## John Price

I don't give a **** about ticos fans. Go out there and finish. That's all I care about. They were barely noticeable. Nobody cared. And nobody would have cared if the US converted and took an early lead. 



Live in the Now said:


> They'll probably lose in Honduras too.
> 
> I expect the US to be playing Syria or Australia in November to qualify.




Honduras ain't good. This team needs to step up and take care of business.


----------



## Live in the Now

Johnnyduke said:


> Would missing entirely be a better result if you think we need a complete overhaul?




100% no. 

They have quality in some positions and not others. Johnson needs to be dropped as well because he's not getting regular football. Nagbe and Bradley were good, and we have good forwards. The defense is garbage and Howard is past it.


----------



## sabremike

If we can't get results against Honduras, Panama and T&T we have no business going to Russia.


----------



## John Price

http://amp.timeinc.net/si/soccer/20...qualifier-urena-arena-cameron-ream?source=dam

The CONCACAF Hexagonal has a lot of margin for error

Losing two home games in the Hex is a giant screw-up by the U.S., but itâ€™s kind of crazy how much you can screw up in the Hex and still qualify for the World Cup. The top three teams will qualify automatically, and the fourth-place team will go to a playoff against the fifth-place team in Asiaâ€”possibly Syria or Saudi Arabia at this pointâ€”for a spot in Russia 2018.

If Panama were to lose at Mexico later on Friday and Honduras were to win at Trinidad and Tobagoâ€”Honduras was ahead at the time of the final whistleâ€”then the U.S. would be tied for third place with Honduras on eight points with Panama at seven. One of the U.S., Honduras or Panama will not even make the playoffâ€”and the U.S. has the benefit of playing head-to-head against Honduras (on Tuesday) and Panama (in Orlando next month). Bottom line: Friday was horrible for the U.S. and a setback, but it certainly doesnâ€™t erase the Americansâ€™ chance of making the World Cup.


----------



## Savant

'Member when USA had great depth at Keeper. I 'Member.


----------



## NJDevs26

Johnnyduke said:


> Would missing entirely be a better result if you think we need a complete overhaul?




They basically have to do an overhaul anyway. They canned Klinsmann and Bruce isn't going to be here after 2018 - especially if they do crash out. No matter what they need a new coach/technical director. Plus most of the main players (Dempsey, Howard, maybe Bradley/Josi) won't be around for the next cycle either.

Unless by overhaul you mean sack Gulati, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. It basically takes criminal charges to remove guys that high up in FIFA.


----------



## The Zetterberg Era

NJDevs26 said:


> They basically have to do an overhaul anyway. They canned Klinsmann and Bruce isn't going to be here after 2018 - especially if they do crash out. No matter what they need a new coach/technical director. Plus most of the main players (Dempsey, Howard, maybe Bradley/Josi) won't be around for the next cycle either.
> 
> Unless by overhaul you mean sack Gulati, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. It basically takes criminal charges to remove guys that high up in FIFA.




If they don't qualify Gulati will also be forced out in my opinion.

Not sure where you go from here, honestly for the television money alone I would guess FIFA starts throwing games for them to be in, because I know people would still watch some, but it would be a disaster for FIFA for the USA to not be in too.


----------



## bleedblue1223

http://www.espnfc.us/united-states/story/3196591/united-states-immigration-policies-inspiring-usmnt-opponents-bruce-arena

No Bruce, you are just a meh manager and we have a meh talent pool to select from. The competition didn't suddenly start to care about the matches because we are now tougher on immigration. The players on the opposing countries cared just as much to win as they did before.


----------



## kingsboy11

Many changes to the lineup today.

Guzan; Beasley, Besler, Gonzalez, Zusi; Acosta, Bradley, Nagbe, Pulisic; Morris, Dempsey

I figured there would changes, but I didn't think it would be 7 changes. I like Besler and Acosta coming in, but I would've given Cameron and Howard another chance. Only 1 European in the lineup tonight. Arena relying on players currently at match fitness levels.


----------



## Live in the Now

Acosta and Morris looking lively.


----------



## hockeykicker

Not on tv in USA?


----------



## Live in the Now

Bein Sports.


----------



## Live in the Now

Omar starting for us in 2017 lol.


----------



## NJDevs26

This team doesn't even deserve to go to Russia.


----------



## SJSharks72

Is it that hard to stick your foot out? Gonzalez just let that run right next to him. Also we need Yedlin back. Get at least someone who can outrun a turtle

I'd like to think that none of these 4 will be starting at the World Cup if we make it.


----------



## Chimaera

Back line is so bad. 

It will be a shame if they finally get the starlet they wanted for years to have it wasted with crummy support. They've had a lot of decent to ok players.


----------



## SJSharks72

Chimaera said:


> Back line is so bad.
> 
> It will be a shame if they finally get the starlet they wanted for years to have it wasted with crummy support. They've had a lot of decent to ok players.




Agreed. I feel like the best back line we could do is

Villafana-Cameron-Brooks-Yedlin

We aren't going to be able to make the World Cup if we keep playing **** like Beasley, Gonzalez, and Zusi


----------



## Chimaera

Maybe, that's still mediocre. I still am upset Miazga hasn't gotten any better


----------



## Chimaera

I mean the fact that Beasley is a regular is where this talent pool is. He wouldn't sniff any nation in the top 30.


----------



## Chimaera

I also know Chandler is better than Zusi. They're both bad, but it's not a question.


----------



## Live in the Now

Villafana is still better than Beasley and should have played.


----------



## Chimaera

Yep. A lot better. I like Bruce, but he's not a great manager, and he was left with disarray.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Zusi isn't bad, he just needs to be sheltered. Pulisic in front of him, leaves him badly exposed. We need to play a 4-2-3-1. Have the DM's protect the backline, and give a system where Pulisic can have a free role and just roam.


----------



## Chimaera

No he's bad. What side with aspirations of making the World Cup and then getting out of groups plays him?

I'm a Terp fan, and he tries, but he's bad.


----------



## Ugmo

NJDevs26 said:


> This team doesn't even deserve to go to Russia.




I went to the Austria match today. They're not going either. If the U.S. doesn't qualify then I can simply ignore the whole tournament in Russia and do something else with my time.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Chimaera said:


> No he's bad. What side with aspirations of making the World Cup and then getting out of groups plays him?
> 
> I'm a Terp fan, and he tries, but he's bad.




We have a lot of players getting significant time. We kind of suck across the board. We aren't strong in any area of the field.


----------



## Chimaera

Oh I agree that the stink is more than just him. But it's a starting point.


----------



## Ugmo

Man, my live stream just crashed after like 84 minutes, and then we equalized!


----------



## Live in the Now

Acosta is a player I'd like to see in the lineup a lot more.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Get in. 

What a freaking save on accostas FK too. Jesus.


----------



## bleedblue1223

I just think he's at least passable in the right system. A rwb in a back 3 or someone that can provide cover in front of him and on the side like at Sporting.


----------



## John Price

All they needed was points today. They were on their way to embarrassing loss and Bobby Wood saved the day. 

I think this team finishes 3rd or 4th. Whether they want to take initiative and finish 3rd or linger around like this looking lethargic, it's up to them.


----------



## Live in the Now

Going to have to beat Panama and possibly get a point from T&T. Simple as that.

Also, Wood plays for a horrible football team and still scores goals. He will be needed in both those games and should not be on the bench.


----------



## kingsboy11

Take the point and run. Objects might've been broken if they lost this game.


----------



## sabremike

"And that's how Bobby Wood saved American soccer".


----------



## bleedblue1223

Live in the Now said:


> Also, Wood plays for a horrible football team and still scores goals.




Yep, he did just that tonight.


----------



## Chimaera

He should have been on before then.


----------



## Live in the Now

Yep, he knows exactly what to do considering he also does it in club football. He should be the first or second name on the team sheet.


----------



## John Price

Somehow I thought the game was starting at 7 EST so imagine my surprise when I was checking twitter and someone said it was 1-0 Honduras at the half, around 6:40 PM. I was like what the **** man.
Regardless Wood equalizes and saves the US. Loss would have been devastating but not impossible to overcome. I keep telling you people, CONCACAF and Hex qualifying is ridiculously easy and Mexico won two games 4 years ago and still qualified through the playoff. But I'd prefer the road to be as smooth as possible. The US didn't really make it easy on themselves, especially when they blew out this exact same club 6-0 earlier this year. But a draw is a draw. All they needed was points. They got em. 3rd or 4th place, it doesn't matter. Aren't the remaining Hex games at home? Against T&T and Panama? I'm not scared. Tear it up and let's go boys


----------



## John Price




----------



## hockeykicker

G F O P said:


> Somehow I thought the game was starting at 7 EST so imagine my surprise when I was checking twitter and someone said it was 1-0 Honduras at the half, around 6:40 PM. I was like what the **** man.
> Regardless Wood equalizes and saves the US. Loss would have been devastating but not impossible to overcome. I keep telling you people, CONCACAF and Hex qualifying is ridiculously easy and Mexico won two games 4 years ago and still qualified through the playoff. But I'd prefer the road to be as smooth as possible. The US didn't really make it easy on themselves, especially when they blew out this exact same club 6-0 earlier this year. But a draw is a draw. All they needed was points. They got em. 3rd or 4th place, it doesn't matter. Aren't the remaining Hex games at home? Against T&T and Panama? I'm not scared. Tear it up and let's go boys




Home vs Panama and on road at Trinidad


----------



## John Price

hockeykicker said:


> home vs panama and on road at trinidad


----------



## bleedblue1223

Live in the Now said:


> Yep, he knows exactly what to do considering he also does it in club football. He should be the first or second name on the team sheet.




Arena has to let go of he old-guard. Might as well start Wood and Morris if you want to play a 2 striker formation and hope their speed causes havoc and creates chances.


----------



## SJSharks72

After today I feel like the US needs a change of formation.

Either a 4-2-3-1 that goes something like

Wood or Altidore
Johnson-Pulisic-Arriola
Bradley-Acosta
Villafana-Brooks-Cameron-Yedlin

Or

3-5-2
Altidore-Wood
Johnson-Pulisic-Bradley-Acosta-Yedlin
Besler-Brooks-Cameron


----------



## ecemleafs

Starting dempsey was bizarre. U don't start a 30+ luxury player these days in a game in the tropics on a borderline unplayable playing surface. Wood should have started and dempsey could have been brought on when the game slowed down.


----------



## SJSharks72

ecemleafs said:


> Starting dempsey was bizarre. U don't start a 30+ luxury player these days in a game in the tropics on a borderline unplayable playing surface. Wood should have started and dempsey could have been brought on when the game slowed down.



I don't think that starting Dempsey was necessarily a bad thing. Someone that Morris is familiar with and hope they can play off each other. Also Dempsey will drop back creating more of a 4-2-3-1 whereas Wood and Morris occupy the same space.


----------



## bluesfan94

With everyone healthy/in form, I think something like this is the ideal:

Wood
Johnson - Pulisic - ???
Acosta - Bradley
Villafana - Brooks - Cameron - Yedlin
Howard/Guzan​
I think the big question going forward is who plays RW. I also think that this could change if CCV/Miazga develop. I could definitely see a 3-4-2-1 being successful if so: 

Wood
Pulisic - Morris
Johnson - Acosta - Bradley - Yedlin
Brooks - Miazga - CCV
Howard/Guzan​


----------



## Live in the Now

The top lineup with Nagbe in the CAM position and Pulisic wide right might be the best we can do.


----------



## sabremike

Can we say the match vs Panama is the most important one we will play since the WCQ vs T&T in 1989?


----------



## bleedblue1223

sabremike said:


> Can we say the match vs Panama is the most important one we will play since the WCQ vs T&T in 1989?




Of qualifier games or just games in general?


----------



## bluesfan94

Live in the Now said:


> The top lineup with Nagbe in the CAM position and Pulisic wide right might be the best we can do.




I think Pulisic is better centrally but I agree.


----------



## sabremike

bleedblue1223 said:


> Of qualifier games or just games in general?



Any game. If we fail to qualify it will be a catastrophe that will do incalculable damage to American soccer so I'd argue it's more important than games in the WC itself (which is what I assume you were going to cite as being more important).


----------



## bleedblue1223

sabremike said:


> Any game. If we fail to qualify it will be a catastrophe that will do incalculable damage to American soccer so I'd argue it's more important than games in the WC itself (which is what I assume you were going to cite as being more important).




It won't be that much of a catastrophe. Youth players aren't suddenly going to not play the sport anymore. If anything, it will intensify the need to improve youth development.


----------



## Chimaera

If it helps to get rid of some of the clowns at US Soccer, then I might be willing to take a World Cup off. Might.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

Chimaera said:


> If it helps to get rid of some of the clowns at US Soccer, then I might be willing to take a World Cup off. Might.




That would not help, would make it worse. The USA needs to make the World Cup, there's no other viable alternative.


----------



## chasespace

Chimaera said:


> If it helps to get rid of some of the clowns at US Soccer, then I might be willing to take a World Cup off. Might.




That would set us back as younger dual nationals we're trying to lure decide to join other federations because we seem less competitive.


----------



## bleedblue1223

chasespace said:


> That would set us back as younger dual nationals we're trying to lure decide to join other federations because we seem less competitive.




Eh, most of the dual nationals that we pick up are because they won't get much playing time on the other national team or historically we are a much better national team than the other option. One World Cup won't change historical performances. For the other scenario, a mediocre German-American will still always choose to play for the USA because they have no chance of playing for Germany.


----------



## NJDevs26

sabremike said:


> Can we say the match vs Panama is the most important one we will play since the WCQ vs T&T in 1989?




It will be, right till we have a stupid draw and wind up playing Australia in the freaking playoff 

Didn't we struggle to get out of the first phase even before the Hex a couple times though? I think even last year.


----------



## John Price

https://www-starsandstripesfc-com.c...to-replace-bruce-arena?amp_js_v=0.1#webview=1

Is Tab Ramos the favorite to replace Bruce Arena?
U.S. Soccer are keeping him around for something.


----------



## chasespace

G F O P said:


> https://www-starsandstripesfc-com.c...to-replace-bruce-arena?amp_js_v=0.1#webview=1
> 
> Is Tab Ramos the favorite to replace Bruce Arena?
> U.S. Soccer are keeping him around for something.




I don't think he wants the manager's job. He strikes me as someone who wants to be involved but not running the show, hence why he'd stay on as an assistant or a youth manager.


----------



## John Price




----------



## John Price




----------



## bluesfan94

If they're gonna go with a semi-German title, they should have at least made it Der Amerikaner so it's proper German. Das American is dumb


----------



## John Price




----------



## Chimaera

I mean, I've definitely had a few extra in EPCOT, but not that many from what I've seen/read.


----------



## bleedblue1223

I really wish some of the Americans on ESPN FC would stop acting like this is the most talented group we've ever had or that we aren't in a down cycle. Herc is insufferable on this. We are weak all over the pitch compared to previous years except for maybe the spots where Pulisic will lineup in. I think sooner than later we'll be stronger at CB once the youngers guys finally get some time, but right now, that positions sucks too. 

And even with as good as Pulisic is, since the team is weaker elsewhere, in certain games his effectiveness can be less than Donovan's or Dempsey's was.


----------



## Chimaera

bleedblue1223 said:


> I really wish some of the Americans on ESPN FC would stop acting like this is the most talented group we've ever had or that we aren't in a down cycle. Herc is insufferable on this. We are weak all over the pitch compared to previous years except for maybe the spots where Pulisic will lineup in. I think sooner than later we'll be stronger at CB once the youngers guys finally get some time, but right now, that positions sucks too.
> 
> And even with as good as Pulisic is, since the team is weaker elsewhere, in certain games his effectiveness can be less than Donovan's or Dempsey's was.





I don't know that this group isn't better than some of the past sides that the US has put out. But what is true is that other nations that we probably could have steam rolled are much more competitive, and they're much better away from home. There was a good period of time in CONCACAF where other than going to just awful stadiums, the US could count on drubbing pretty much everyone other than Mexico at home. Then when Mexico ran into manager or player pool issues, even the US could beat them. 

I'd make the argument, for what it's worth, Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, and Mexico are all much better. When you compound that with the US going through a crappy overrated manager for a while, and many of their young players not getting experience or reaching their potential, we are where they are. I also think if you add in one more solid defender, and it's a bit of a different story, but I'm not sure that's possible. 

However, there's an article in the ringer the other day promoting the u17 USA side, and what they recount is kinda true. The US has really failed to produce much in the last few cycles in the u17-u20 that's worth a ton. They've only gotten three or four players where they needed a lot more to overhaul the entire side. One of the things they don't account for is that with the explosion of the sport in the US to an extent with more and more opportunities for player development, as the young kids go overseas, it's a double edged sword. Sure, moving to Europe is fine and all, but if you're a 15 or 16 year old kid moving to Ajax or Dortmund or wherever, the chances of you getting playing time you need are not a sure thing. The step up is also massive.


----------



## John Price

https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/10/05/usa-miss-world-cup-2018-russia-fallout


----------



## kingsboy11

Missing the World Cup would be awful and a world wide embarassment, but I don't think it would kill any momentum that we have built up. If anything it may actually be a catalyst for us to improve in every aspect of the sport. But I'd much prefer we don't miss.

As for the talented players argument, I do think this team is probably the most talented group or at least up there. But that doesn't mean we are a good team. I don't think this team could beat the 2002 team personally. There are a lot of flaws with the team as it stands. If you go by position we lack a lot of depth behind our starters. Look no further than when Jozy got injured in the last World cup. And even in 2010 when Charlie Davies got hurt we actually started Robbie freaking Findley in a World Cup match. But regardless of who we bring in or start this team should be good enough to qualify for the World Cup even if the competition has gotten better. There's really no excuse at this point.


----------



## Chimaera

I don't feel we're good enough to just get there anymore. 

If the US is playing poorly, they can miss it.


----------



## kingsboy11

Lineup is out

Howard;Yedlin, Gonzalez, Besler, Villafana; Arriola, Bradley, Nagbe, Pulisic; Altidore, Wood

Pulisic starting in the middle. Gonzalez in for Cameron and obviously Yedlin in for Zusi.


----------



## SJSharks72

kingsboy11 said:


> Lineup is out
> 
> Howard;Yedlin, Gonzalez, Besler, Villafana; Arriola, Bradley, Nagbe, Pulisic; Altidore, Wood
> 
> Pulisic starting in the middle. Gonzalez in for Cameron and obviously Yedlin in for Zusi.



I don't think Pulisic is starting in the middle. I think it will be Nagbe in the middle with Bradley and Pulisic down the left with Arriola down right.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

Lets go USA


----------



## spintheblackcircle

There he is!!!!!


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

What a goal

USA takes lead 7 min into game


----------



## Cody Webster

What a goal!!!!!


----------



## kingsboy11

Just leave it all to Wonder Boy!!!


----------



## Live in the Now

So yeah, Pulisic is pretty good.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

American player is bleeding from above eye

How is that not a penalty? He clearly elbowed him in face


----------



## Cody Webster

Reffing is off to a great start.....gonna be a long night.


----------



## HoseEmDown

Great start but it's hard to watch a game with Twellman as the commentator, he's pretty terrible.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

One thing that I hate about soccer

The whining by players constantly to refs


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

2-0 USA!!!!!!!!


----------



## KlausJopling

#10 is really good


----------



## Cody Webster

Oh my

What a pass. What a finish.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Well, can't get a better start, can you?


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

#10 might be the guy US Soccer has been dreaming about forever

Is he the first US superstar face of soccer? Hope so


----------



## Cody Webster

Blackhawkswincup said:


> #10 might be the guy US Soccer has been dreaming about forever
> 
> Is he the first US superstar face of soccer? Hope so




New to soccer?


----------



## Cody Webster

Gotta finish that one.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

Cody Webster said:


> New to soccer?




I watch about every 4 years with occasional viewing in between those 4 years


----------



## Halladay

Win by 3 or 4 goals, and a draw will probably do against Trindad and Tobago.


----------



## kingsboy11

Couldn't have asked for a better start. Defense is still quite a bit shaky, lots of space in front of the Besler/Gonzalez. Might want to bring on Cameron and put him next to Bradley.


----------



## Chimaera

He really does seem to be the goods. They better not screw it up.


----------



## Chimaera

No shock with the thuggery... sad he doesn’t get the protection he deserves.


----------



## NJDevs26

Blackhawkswincup said:


> #10 might be the guy US Soccer has been dreaming about forever
> 
> Is he the first US superstar face of soccer? Hope so




First male superstar anyway lol

Nice of the US to actually show up tonight unlike most of the Hex. Now they just have to beat Trinidad and they're through.


----------



## kingsboy11

I was pretty calm all week leading up the game, but today I got extremely nervous. I was pretty confident they would win, but there's always that little bit of doubt. Glad the boys answered the call.

Jozy, Wood and Arriola were all excellent today. And what more needs to be said about Pulisic?

This game reminded me a lot of the game against Honduras back in March. The team was in desperate need of a win and the team came out flying with Pulisic right in the middle of it all.


----------



## HoseEmDown

Hopefully this means more NT games here in Orlando.


----------



## hockeykicker

Really not sure what Mexico is doing tonight


----------



## Shrimper

I don't understand why some people were getting worried about the US last night. A win was almost certain and even if they had lost, a win against TT would have been enough, no?


----------



## NJDevs26

Shrimper said:


> I don't understand why some people were getting worried about the US last night. A win was almost certain and even if they had lost, a win against TT would have been enough, no?




If they'd lost to Panama, they would have had no shot finishing any higher than 4th and having to deal with the Australia (or Syria) playoff series in a best-case. Panama would have been four points up with one match left. Couple a loss with any kind of result for Honduras in Costa Rica today and destiny would have been out of the US's hands for even the fourth playoff spot.

Either way you don't want to be in 4th or 5th with one game left, and the entire region would love to see us miss the WC if it came down to it. Thankfully a different team showed up for October than the one that seemed apathetic about the September games.


----------



## Halladay

Honduras is winning in San Jose. Looks like they will have to win Tuesday. But this Costa Rica will also have to try against Panama.


----------



## kingsboy11

Wow Costa Rica equalizes in the 95th minute. Huge gift to the US


----------



## NJDevs26

So realistically all they need is a draw against T/T to clinch the automatic third spot now.


----------



## John Price




----------



## John Price

https://www.cbsnews.com/videos/the-young-american/


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## John Price

SMH some of those stadium conditions. The one in Honduras was pretty bad too. Game might be a lot closer than need be but the good news is the US is pretty much assured of qualifying even with one point


----------



## kingsboy11

Reports have the pitch in much better conditions today albeit that was a pretty low bar. It'll probably be good enough to play on, but by the end of the game it'll be a mess.


----------



## kingsboy11

Arena trotting out the same lineup. Kind of surprised, but at the same time I'm not. I figured maybe one or two changes. But overall this lineup is good enough to get us to Russia. No more excuses. Get it done


----------



## Live in the Now

I think that's our best lineup with the exception of Brooks in one of those CB spots.


----------



## SJSharks72

Live in the Now said:


> I think that's our best lineup with the exception of Brooks in one of those CB spots.



Johnson and Cameron in too. Maybe Johnson for Arriola and then Brooks and Cameron as the CB pairing.


----------



## Live in the Now

SJSharks39 said:


> Johnson and Cameron in too. Maybe Johnson for Arriola and then Brooks and Cameron as the CB pairing.




I like Arriola. He has a lot of energy. Forgot about Cameron.


----------



## SJSharks72

Live in the Now said:


> I like Arriola. He has a lot of energy. Forgot about Cameron.



I really like Arriola too but feel like he would be better coming off the bench with Johnson hopefully finding form.


----------



## SJSharks72

Well that was a dumb goal to let in....


----------



## kingsboy11

are you kidding me


----------



## dogbazinho

Fire everyone


----------



## kingsboy11

dfjskl;djkfdsjkgjdsjjdjjhasngl

You've got to be ****ing me


----------



## bleedblue1223

Talent and effort issue.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Laughable


----------



## kingsboy11

The Ticos and Mexico are saving our asses right now.


----------



## Halladay

kingsboy11 said:


> The Ticos and Mexico are saving our asses right now.



To be fair. They saved Mexico 4 years ago.


----------



## kingsboy11

They're playing like they qualified in March. Zero effort or intensity right now. Where's the fight back?


----------



## McDonald19

Pulisic!!


----------



## kingsboy11

messi carrying his team to the World cup, Pulisic doing the same


----------



## kingsboy11

Panama and Honduras both equalize


----------



## John Price




----------



## John Price




----------



## John Price

BTW Honduras scored. USA 4th place ATM.


----------



## Cody Webster

How embarrassing would that be.


----------



## Cody Webster

There is absolutely no urgency here. This is down right awful to watch. They deserve to not qualify

And a post....


----------



## John Price




----------



## Cody Webster

Oh man. This is so bad.


----------



## Cody Webster

Oh wow! What a save....


----------



## John Price

The US has come so close to equalizing but that 2-0 hole is just too much to overcome!


----------



## Cody Webster

Lol. US is done.


----------



## John Price

Panama scored.


----------



## Halladay

rofl. Best luck next time for Qatar or wherever.


----------



## Cody Webster

Just down right embarrassing.


----------



## Timeless Winter

Atrocious.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Really don't want to here Herc blab about this being the most talented group we've had.


----------



## Cody Webster

Pull the goalie!!!

That'll just about do it.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Fox and Telemundo are crying....crying.


----------



## Cody Webster

Wow. Just wow. 

Clean house.


----------



## John Price

IT's over.


----------



## Cody Webster

Huge free kick here for Mexico


----------



## Cody Webster

And now it's officially done.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Can we get Klinsmann back?


----------



## GabeTravels

The year I was gonna go to Russia...I guess I'll save some money...


----------



## SJSharks72

How the f*** do you lose? The team that was eliminated back in March


----------



## dogbazinho

Lack of effort, tactics, bad luck and a shit field.


----------



## Savant

Gulati out


----------



## John Price

This is the worst sports-related depression I have felt in a very long time.


----------



## Jray42

Un f***ing believeable


----------



## SJSharks72

Savant said:


> Gulati out



Everyone out. Just fire everyone. This was a pathetic performance and what was probably Dempsey and Bradley’s last games


----------



## bleedblue1223

SJSharks39 said:


> Everyone out. Just fire everyone. This was a pathetic performance and what was probably Dempsey and Bradley’s last games




They'll get some token send off game, and then retire.


----------



## McDonald19

Well now they can clean house.

Build the program around Pulisic and other young players.

Should be the last USA game for Bradley, Dempsey, Howard.


----------



## Live in the Now

I didn't want to say anything because I respect him greatly, but Howard looked fat and out of shape.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Live in the Now said:


> I didn't want to say anything because I respect him greatly, but Howard looked fat and out of shape.



I mean, he is 38.


----------



## John Price




----------



## nyrleetch

Just garbage all around.

Gulati needs to be gone. You want to fire Jurgen, fine. You replace him with Arena? That's such a horrendous move it makes Joe Girardi's non challenge look smart in comparison. 

Bradley- Done
Howard- Done
Dempsey- Done

BRINGS IN BENNY FEILHABER AS YOUR LAST SUB. WHAT IS THAT. 

Doesn't bring in Fabian Johnson? lol. Doesn't start Cameron? lol. 

We are not a country that can win without it's best players on the field. Just garbage.


----------



## bleedblue1223

nyrleetch said:


> Just garbage all around.
> 
> Gulati needs to be gone. You want to fire Jurgen, fine. You replace him with Arena? That's such a horrendous move it makes Joe Girardi's non challenge look smart in comparison.
> 
> Bradley- Done
> Howard- Done
> Dempsey- Done
> 
> BRINGS IN BENNY FEILHABER AS YOUR LAST SUB. WHAT IS THAT.
> 
> Doesn't bring in Fabian Johnson? lol. Doesn't start Cameron? lol.
> 
> We are not a country that can win without it's best players on the field. Just garbage.



We have 1 legitimate good player.


----------



## Cody Webster

Listening to Bruce is down right comical


----------



## IU Hawks fan

Fire everybody!


----------



## Burner Account

nyrleetch said:


> Just garbage all around.
> 
> Gulati needs to be gone. You want to fire Jurgen, fine. You replace him with Arena? That's such a horrendous move it makes Joe Girardi's non challenge look smart in comparison.
> 
> Bradley- Done
> Howard- Done
> Dempsey- Done
> 
> BRINGS IN BENNY FEILHABER AS YOUR LAST SUB. WHAT IS THAT.
> 
> Doesn't bring in Fabian Johnson? lol. Doesn't start Cameron? lol.
> 
> We are not a country that can win without it's best players on the field. Just garbage.



Johnson and Cameron were being punished for not playing in the MLS


----------



## nyrleetch

bleedblue1223 said:


> We have 1 legitimate good player.




Not doubting that. 

This team still should have easily made the WC. You can't start B/C team players. Bruce Arena was garbage from the start.


----------



## bleedblue1223

kyle evs48 said:


> Johnson and Cameron were being punished for not playing in the MLS



Johnson is in horrible form.


----------



## Chimaera

Fire Gulati. He should’ve been gone ages ago.


----------



## njdevsfn95

Please let something good come from this embarrassment.


----------



## Cassano

Sucks that Green and Zelalem busted hard. They should've been good enough if you asked this last world cup.


----------



## Live in the Now

bleedblue1223 said:


> I mean, he is 38.



Buffon is 39 and I've never heard anyone call him fat. 

If you are fat, you shouldn't be playing for us.


----------



## GKJ

Can't imagine a fate more deserved than this for everybody involved in this program. They even had to recycle the manager.


----------



## Chimaera

Funny part is it will probably be Ramos or someone else running the show and more of the same.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Live in the Now said:


> Buffon is 39 and I've never heard anyone call him fat.
> 
> If you are fat, you shouldn't be playing for us.



Buffon is also one of the greatest keepers of all time...

And he's not fat, he's just slowed down and not as sharp. He's also not in as good of shape because of his age.


----------



## DoyleG

Guys...

Step away from the ledge.


----------



## njdevsfn95

Just curious: anyone have a picture of the ball over the line for Panama?


----------



## Live in the Now

bleedblue1223 said:


> Buffon is also one of the greatest keepers of all time...




And? Howard is still fat. There's lots of older keepers who aren't, I just picked an obvious example. Any country should not have fat players playing for it, I don't care what they've done before. Considering one of the goals was from 40 yards I think this is a pertinent criticism.


----------



## John Price

Imagine your favorite team getting eliminated in the NHL playoffs in a hard fought game. And then this elimination magnifies that pain by one billion. Because this only happens every four years.

This is just grueling inconsolable pain. One could argue the World Cup watch parties were some of the best parts of watching the USMNT live. If you ever go to one of those things and see thousands of people packed into a park or a bar then you will understand the greatness, and the lack of that in 2018 is a huge dagger.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Live in the Now said:


> And? Howard is still fat. There's lots of older keepers who aren't, I just picked an obvious example. Any country should not have fat players playing for it, I don't care what they've done before. Considering one of the goals was from 40 yards I think this is a pertinent criticism.



Just saying he's way past his prime and this should be expected from most goalies at his age. It's ridiculous to think he'd still be high quality.


----------



## Chimaera

Bruce went with his guys because he’s out of touch. 

The clowns we have still on the roster are sad. They’re better off playing the u20 team than some of these dinosaurs.


----------



## nyrleetch

njdevsfn95 said:


> Just curious: anyone have a picture of the ball over the line for Panama?




https://deadspin.com/u-s-a-out-of-world-cup-on-phantom-goal-1819343176

Ball never made it over


----------



## NJDevs26

Well guess you can't blame Jurgen for this one. What a disaster. Everyone needs to GTFO from Gulati to Arena to Howard/Bradley/Altidore - this so-called vet 'leadership' that couldn't be bothered to give any effort against Costa Rica at home, or any effort tonight when all they needed was a darn draw.

I don't care about the phantom goal either, just take care of your own business and TIE the worst team in the Hex and you make it in third place without even the playoff. You know Mexico just loved laying down to screw us over, probably Costa Rica laid down too or at least played like they had nothing to play for (which they don't to be fair).



DoyleG said:


> Guys...
> 
> Step away from the ledge.




The US just got pushed over the ledge. Or rather jumped off in a mass suicide. Tonight's an utter disaster for soccer in this country, it sets us back at least five years if not more, there's no sugar coating it. The next important game the US plays is what, 2020 maybe? When they struggle to make it out of the first round of qualifying this time?


----------



## Live in the Now

bleedblue1223 said:


> Just saying he's way past his prime and this should be expected from most goalies at his age. It's ridiculous to think he'd still be high quality.




We're saying the same thing basically. I just can't believe we were left with the decision to choose a fat keeper, and that backfired pretty hard in the end.


----------



## njdevsfn95

nyrleetch said:


> https://deadspin.com/u-s-a-out-of-world-cup-on-phantom-goal-1819343176
> 
> Ball never made it over




Now I'm not sure if I really wanted to know but when I saw it on BeIN I didn't think it went over.


----------



## John Price

The ball not being over the line doesn't matter. Don't fall behind 0-2 to T&T.

Are you aware the US didn't win a single game away from home? That was scathing. Mexico I don't care, they got they result they needed there. Honduras should have been more than 1-1. Wood saved their hides then. And then this. It's like you had so many bad games or disappointing games away from home it was pathetic. I know it's a tough pitch to play on, they keep them in terrible conditions, but the other team's playing on them too. f***ing tear it up


----------



## Cody Webster

G F O P said:


> Imagine your favorite team getting eliminated in the NHL playoffs in a hard fought game. And then this elimination magnifies that pain by one billion. Because this only happens every four years.
> 
> This is just grueling inconsolable pain. One could argue the World Cup watch parties were some of the best parts of watching the USMNT live. If you ever go to one of those things and see thousands of people packed into a park or a bar then you will understand the greatness, and the lack of that in 2018 is a huge dagger.




You're used to teams choking. This shouldn't phase you.


----------



## Hadoop

Really sucks for soccer as a sport in the States, though in fairness most of the players on the pitch probably deserved this considering their lack of respect and urgency.


----------



## Chimaera

To be fair, it doesn’t set the US back 5 years unless they don’t fix things. If it’s Sunil and his clowns running stuff, it won’t help. But if they play the kids and focus on gutting the roster, they’ll be better for it. Heck, they should be more motivated now than ever. Get a young, hungry manager, play the heck out of the kids. Get rid of anyone over 26-27. Play everyone that will be around for 4 years from now. Get kids into clubs that can help them in Europe.


----------



## NJDevs26

Live in the Now said:


> We're saying the same thing basically. I just can't believe we were left with the decision to choose a fat keeper, and that backfired pretty hard in the end.




I don't understand why other than name recognition Howard was the only choice, was Guzan hurt? I don't think he's that bad either.


----------



## dogbazinho

Guzan is worse


----------



## bleedblue1223

There really aren't any other quality keepers that were proven. Just like at most other positions, there was a major talent issue.


----------



## NJDevs26

Well that's pretty bad considering keeper is the ONLY position the US has even approached having world class players the last two decades from Keller (albeit he stunk in the WC) to Friedel to Howard.


----------



## bleedblue1223

NJDevs26 said:


> Well that's pretty bad considering keeper is the ONLY position the US has even approached having world class players the last two decades from Keller (albeit he stunk in the WC) to Friedel to Howard.



Donovan, Dempsey, and Pulisic have been on that level in the wing/attacking-mid positions.


----------



## njdevsfn95

The importance of 2019 cannot be understated. Everything USSoccer does between now and then is for the sole purpose of having a great 2019.

The next Gold Cup is that year. Win it and play in the 2021 Confederations Cup. (I'm assuming the CONCACAF qualification for the Confed Cup is unchanged. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Don't win it and still have the Play-In (CONCACAF Cup it was called in 2015).

That can put the US on a good path. **** it up, like 2015, and well here we are again. Failing big time before the next WCQ cycle.


----------



## NJDevs26

Honestly only the big soccer fans see 2019 as huge. You're not getting viewing parties in America for the Gold Cup OR the Confed Cup. It would be a nice stepping stone to 2022, but that's all I can really look at it as - it won't make a dent for the casual fan.


----------



## EC09

Soccer will do just fine in the USA. MLS is expanding, with record attendance and ratings. The Premiere League on NBC is having record ratings. And the USWNT is the better group to support anyway.

USMNT could disband and soccer will still do great here.


----------



## DoyleG




----------



## Live in the Now

njdevsfn95 said:


> The importance of 2019 cannot be understated. Everything USSoccer does between now and then is for the sole purpose of having a great 2019.
> 
> The next Gold Cup is that year. Win it and play in the 2021 Confederations Cup. (I'm assuming the CONCACAF qualification for the Confed Cup is unchanged. Correct me if I'm wrong.)
> 
> Don't win it and still have the Play-In (CONCACAF Cup it was called in 2015).
> 
> That can put the US on a good path. **** it up, like 2015, and well here we are again. Failing big time before the next WCQ cycle.




The Confed Cup is very likely going to be cancelled.


----------



## njdevsfn95

You asked about the next important game. It's more than that. 

And I don't care about whether or not the "casual fans" are into it. There is nothing the USMNT, and even USSoccer, can do about meaningful games for the men's team until 2019, unfortunately. As for 2018, Might snag a nice warmup friendly or two for WC teams which might make a good idea to put all the youth in as someone suggested above.


----------



## Big Z Man 1990

With the US out, does Fox back out of televising the World Cup next year (ala 1980 Summer Games)?


----------



## njdevsfn95

Live in the Now said:


> The Confed Cup is very likely going to be cancelled.




Perfect. Then 2019 is important for "righting the ship" I suppose.


----------



## Live in the Now

Big Z Man 1990 said:


> With the US out, does Fox back out of televising the World Cup next year (ala 1980 Summer Games)?




Lol no.


----------



## SJSharks72

So what does our new young lineup look like?

Wood/Morris
Nagbe-Pulisic-???
Acosta-Hyndman?
Villafana-Miazga?-Brooks-Yedlin
Gonzalez? Horvath?


----------



## Live in the Now

I'm more worried about manager than lineup at this moment. This whole cycle showed the problem with having a bad manager whose methods are antiquated.


----------



## SJSharks72

Live in the Now said:


> I'm more worried about manager than lineup at this moment. This whole cycle showed the problem with having a bad manager whose methods are antiquated.



One thing I just thought of was what about LD for manager? Or at least an assistant?


----------



## Live in the Now

Pareja for manager.


----------



## Cochese

I believe......

I believe that.....

I believe that we will....

I believe that we will not qualify for the World Cup!!!

Haha loving this.


----------



## BrokenFace

At least now we know that the players are the problem and the program needs to move forward with a long term plan that focuses on quality young players developing in quality systems rather than sticking to a flawed starting XI. Basically we now know we need a Jurgen Klinsmann clone.

It's easier to fire a coach than it is to replace a group of players, but that doesn't mean it's smarter.


----------



## NJDevs26

I'm not AS anti-Klinsmann as most but he was clearly throwing **** against a wall and changing everything constantly by the end and the results were so horrible he had to be sacked. I don't really see what he and his overhaul added in the long term other than a bunch of dual national eligibles who really can't play. After an outcome like this, the coach AND players both get replaced anyway. If Klinsmann had stayed they probably go splat earlier and he'd have been out after this regardless.


----------



## Cin

What a f***ing worthless group of shit.

Hearing all of these people talk the last few years about how it's great that American players are coming back to the US. f*** that. Worthless f***ing piece of shit league. Making our National team players even worse than they already were. Amazing. Truly amazing.

Relying on the same crop of shit we've relied on for years. Amazing.

Going back to Arena. lol

Our players need to go to Europe. No more bringing them back home. Build the MLS on the back of south American players, or Americans that won't be on the national team. No NT player should be playing in f***ing America for at least another four years.

What an absolute colossal embarrassment. Bring in a new manager, new board, new f***ing everything.

Burn everything to the ground except for Pulisic.


----------



## Cin

bleedblue1223 said:


> *Donovan*, *Dempsey*, and Pulisic have been on that level in the wing/attacking-mid positions.




Not even a little bit. Donovan and Dempsey were average at best. Pulisic is the greatest talent to ever come out of this country by an absolute mile. Not even within the same universe as those other two losers.


----------



## McDonald19

Cin said:


> Not even a little bit. Donovan and Dempsey were average at best. Pulisic is the greatest talent to ever come out of this country by an absolute mile. Not even within the same universe as those other two losers.




Donovan had moments of being an elite player. Best USA player until Pulisic.


----------



## McDonald19

Big Z Man 1990 said:


> With the US out, does Fox back out of televising the World Cup next year (ala 1980 Summer Games)?




No, but I'm sure they are a little disappointed.


----------



## philip

I think an argument can be made for the mini-rise of the MLS contributing to a decline of the national team. More players are thinking it's a viable career choice to play their football in the US instead of getting away to Europe at a young age. MLS is good for when your glory days are behind you and you've contributed all you can, but it's not a good place to learn good habits and football style.


----------



## Live in the Now

The way MLS contributed to the decline of our team is that now smaller countries in the region have a league to send their players to so they can get better. Other than Dempsey none of the players who returned to MLS were very good in the first place, or they were too old to play in a real league. Michael Bradley has never been consistently good for the US.

Our young players don't need to be playing in MLS for very long, but I don't think we can relate these results to MLS. There is one thing I will relate to MLS though. The fact that we don't have a goal scorer. Look at the MLS golden boot table if you don't see the problem. The defenses in this league really suck and there are no Americans who can score goals consistently in it. This should not be possible.

The real problem with this team was something that popped up against Honduras. They had no organized style of playing whatsoever. When chasing that goal in Honduras, the US immediately abandoned their shape and started doing whatever it took to score goals. I think we had two or three defenders in random positions come the end of that game, and we were lucky that Honduras didn't score again. Consistency is crucial, and when Arena said he hadn't given a moments thought to this game prior to the Panama game, I knew we were in trouble. There was no semblance of a plan or thought to what the US was doing. The plan was merely to qualify, there was no plan for how to accomplish it.


----------



## kingsboy11

Devastated is the word I keep coming too. I thought losing to the Hawks was bad, but this is a lot worse than I ever imagined. We can blame the coaching decisions, the field conditions, the players, MLS or whatever, but ultimately there isn't a single person or entity that deserves all the blame. Ultimately it comes down to upper management and the players. That first half was probably the most lack luster halves in the history of world cup qualifying. And I think what upsets me the most is seeing our prized prodigy, our best player only at the age of 19 will not be able to show case his skills on biggest stage. This kid is the reason we weren't knocked out earlier in the Hex and he has the biggest balls on the team and no one is in the same ball park. 

The arrogance got the best of them. They get what they deserve. This will not cripple the sport, if anything I'm hoping it will further motivate everyone to fix this ****. Hopefully the new guys who come in will have an actual vision and plan.


----------



## IU Hawks fan

Big Z Man 1990 said:


> With the US out, does Fox back out of televising the World Cup next year (ala 1980 Summer Games)?



LOL, it's not a boycott.


----------



## Ivan13

Listening to the US commentator pronouncing Pulisic's surname gave me cancer.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Ivan13 said:


> Listening to the US commentator pronouncing Pulisic's surname gave me cancer.




Pool-a-sick?

When he came up to the team, the kid himself corrected the initial pronounciatuon as most announcers were using the “ich” ending on it. 

How would you pronounce it?


----------



## East Coast Bias

Gulati has to go. Crooked little hobit. 

The issues run deeper than the surface (coach, tactics, Senior players). 

We need to overhaul our youth programs. But the American way is to structure it to make the most $$$$ and I don’t know how that changes.


----------



## Chimaera

Donovan and Dempsey were never elite. They never were world class. At any time, there aren't that many world class players. 

Both were very good, but neither world class. Dempsey did have a run with Fulham where he was scoring in England to where he was pretty good, but never world class. He doesn't do anything particularly great. 

Donovan never really cut it in Europe, and while he was a good player, there's never been a time where he'd be really considered in the top 30-40 players in the world. 


Pulisic isn't there yet either. He's a talented kid, and his ceiling is to where he could be a player who gets into that top 15-20 player range, but he has a ways to go. He hasn't even really hit his prime at all. He probably won't do that until 22-23, and that's a ways from now. His next club is going to dictate some of that.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Chimaera said:


> Donovan and Dempsey were never elite. They never were world class. At any time, there aren't that many world class players.
> 
> Both were very good, but neither world class. Dempsey did have a run with Fulham where he was scoring in England to where he was pretty good, but never world class. He doesn't do anything particularly great.
> 
> Donovan never really cut it in Europe, and while he was a good player, there's never been a time where he'd be really considered in the top 30-40 players in the world.
> 
> 
> Pulisic isn't there yet either. He's a talented kid, and his ceiling is to where he could be a player who gets into that top 15-20 player range, but he has a ways to go. He hasn't even really hit his prime at all. He probably won't do that until 22-23, and that's a ways from now. His next club is going to dictate some of that.




I never said they were, just said that, that trio was on a similar level as Keller, Friedel, and Howard. Those are the 2 positions that we've had semi-decent success at producing players capable at playing at decent clubs in top Euro clubs. Reyna and Bradley have had success in Europe, but we haven't been as consistent at developing CM's as those other 2 positions. 

We've never had a truly elite player, at any position, but that wasn't the point.


----------



## Chimaera

I don't buy the narrative that the MLS is the reason these players are not performing. they got beat by players who wouldn't make some of the MLS rosters throughout the Qualifying tournament. I would certainly agree with the fact that it gives more talent from CONCACAF places to play professionally. But I don't know that it's the reason they're not doing well. 

The central problem for the US right now, and what it's been since Jurgen took over is they don't know what they are. They've got some better players than they've had in the past, and the depth for the player pool is probably better than it's ever been, but what exactly are they style wise? How are they going to go about getting results week in and week out? Do they just try and outscore other teams? Do they play defense and hope to win it on the counter? What do they do? Are they a possession team? 

In the past, they knew what they were. They were a hard working team that didn't have the talent to beat most sides, but they would play up to their competition. Now they think they're probably more talented then they are. They've got players who are decent, who haven't put in that same commitment and work that they need.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Ivan13 said:


> Listening to the US commentator pronouncing Pulisic's surname gave me cancer.



That's the way he asked them to pronounce it. When he first came up, they used the Euro-traditional pronunciation, but like many others in America, he prefers the Americanized version of the name.


----------



## Chimaera

I mean, I think some of you are sleeping on John Harkes, Claudio Reyna and others who came before, but it's hard to remember the past when they were pretty bad. But they've had some players who were decent in the past.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Chimaera said:


> I don't buy the narrative that the MLS is the reason these players are not performing. they got beat by players who wouldn't make some of the MLS rosters throughout the Qualifying tournament. I would certainly agree with the fact that it gives more talent from CONCACAF places to play professionally. But I don't know that it's the reason they're not doing well.
> 
> The central problem for the US right now, and what it's been since Jurgen took over is they don't know what they are. They've got some better players than they've had in the past, and the depth for the player pool is probably better than it's ever been, but what exactly are they style wise? How are they going to go about getting results week in and week out? Do they just try and outscore other teams? Do they play defense and hope to win it on the counter? What do they do? Are they a possession team?
> 
> In the past, they knew what they were. They were a hard working team that didn't have the talent to beat most sides, but they would play up to their competition. Now they think they're probably more talented then they are. They've got players who are decent, who haven't put in that same commitment and work that they need.




Right. Herc keeps trying to push this narrative on ESPN that this is the most talent we've had. Is Nagbe or Arriola really that much better than a young Beasley when he played further forward on the wings? Altidore is the same as he's always been, incredibly inconsistent. Bradley has regressed. Pulisic has basically just replaced the Dempsey/Donovan role of carrying the team offensively. Defensively they are a mess.

At what position do we have depth and talent to actually push the starters? What starters can reasonably be dropped from the starting 11 when they have a bad game? They really aren't that talented or deep.


----------



## Burner Account

I don't know if one can attribute this failure to the MLS, but I do believe the MLS and the USMNT hinder each other's progress.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Chimaera said:


> I don't buy the narrative that the MLS is the reason these players are not performing. they got beat by players who wouldn't make some of the MLS rosters throughout the Qualifying tournament. I would certainly agree with the fact that it gives more talent from CONCACAF places to play professionally. But I don't know that it's the reason they're not doing well.
> 
> The central problem for the US right now, and what it's been since Jurgen took over is they don't know what they are. They've got some better players than they've had in the past, and the depth for the player pool is probably better than it's ever been, but what exactly are they style wise? How are they going to go about getting results week in and week out? Do they just try and outscore other teams? Do they play defense and hope to win it on the counter? What do they do? Are they a possession team?
> 
> In the past, they knew what they were. They were a hard working team that didn't have the talent to beat most sides, but they would play up to their competition. Now they think they're probably more talented then they are. They've got players who are decent, who haven't put in that same commitment and work that they need.




MLS has meant a lot to the other teams in CONCACAF though. They send their players to develop here now. The unintended consequence of MLS may be that we've closed the gap in teams below us. 

Call me a Euro snob, but I would much rather our guys play overseas. MLS is like 50% exhibition. Everyone makes the playoffs, you can draw through half the season. There's so many team that it's watered down comp. 

MLS is not THE reason. It's a contributing factor though. They've spent billions on the damn league.

(Pay to play driving our youth set up is much more a reason IMO.)


----------



## bleedblue1223

kyle evs48 said:


> I don't know if one can attribute this failure to the MLS, but I do believe the MLS and the USMNT hinder each other's progress.




It's all a factor. There has to be a spot that is really invested in the development of young Americans, especially in attacking positions. Then, again, when a player like Kellyn Acosta gets developed in the MLS and shows upside, the USMNT has to integrate them more into the starting 11. There is no reason why Acosta couldn't have played a bigger role. 

An increase in home-grown requirements would probably do some good.


----------



## chasespace

The only way the MLS has hurt the USMNT is by upping the level of players that play on teams we used to dominate(T&T, Honduras, Panama, etc).

The worrying trend here is our U20 team doesn't have any standout prospects, from what I see. Our best hopes are on the U17 team and they'll be 21-22 during the 2022 Cup, younger for the WCQ slog.


----------



## Chimaera

I would say they're still one of the more talented groups that they've ever had. They are by default because the other rosters were scraping the barrel to find 18 guys. I don't know that it's the best roster, or best 11 that they've ever had. But there are many more players who could play for the team now than in the past.

It certainly isn't the best defending group ever, and that's much of the problem. They can't find a solid back four that they had in the past. In the past, they knew each week who was playing there. Now, who knows. They have no rhythm, they've lost consistency and they don't know who to play where, and players who should have progressed took bad moves and aren't playing for their professional clubs. 

The talent pool is much deeper now. I also think that's some of the problem. They don't know exactly who to use and each week the lineups are all over the place. Pick 20 guys, go with those for the next cycle, sprinkle in two or three call ups who you think could crack the roster or make your side better, and forget the rest. They shouldn't have a situation where 40 or 50 guys are in the hunt for spots. Pick your best, go with them.


----------



## Chimaera

East Coast Bias said:


> MLS has meant a lot to the other teams in CONCACAF though. They send their players to develop here now. The unintended consequence of MLS may be that we've closed the gap in teams below us.
> 
> Call me a Euro snob, but I would much rather our guys play overseas. MLS is like 50% exhibition. Everyone makes the playoffs, you can draw through half the season. There's so many team that it's watered down comp.
> 
> MLS is not THE reason. It's a contributing factor though. They've spent billions on the damn league.
> 
> (Pay to play driving our youth set up is much more a reason IMO.)




Sure, it's allowed some of these sides to get development of their youth players who are living in the US, or who MLS sides see as cheap labor. But that's not the end all be all. They got beat by a team of a nation with the population of San Diego. 

they're consistently under performing against sides with far less players who are professional. US Soccer spends more in a month than some of their countries spend in a year. 

It's just not good enough. They're not playing together and it shows.


----------



## bleedblue1223

We have more mediocre talented players, not actually more talented players. We are only "deep" at defense because none of them can solidify a spot consistently. We really aren't deep at any other position.


----------



## Burner Account

chasespace said:


> The only way the MLS has hurt the USMNT is by upping the level of players that play on teams we used to dominate(T&T, Honduras, Panama, etc).
> 
> The worrying trend here is our U20 team doesn't have any standout prospects, from what I see. Our best hopes are on the U17 team and they'll be 21-22 during the 2022 Cup, younger for the WCQ slog.



You are leaving out the part where the MLS encourages players to abandon more competitive leagues abroad in pursuit of large sums of money in a pretty bad league.


----------



## Chimaera

chasespace said:


> The only way the MLS has hurt the USMNT is by upping the level of players that play on teams we used to dominate(T&T, Honduras, Panama, etc).
> 
> The worrying trend here is our U20 team doesn't have any standout prospects, from what I see. Our best hopes are on the U17 team and they'll be 21-22 during the 2022 Cup, younger for the WCQ slog.





That's not quite true. They don't have another Pulisic (who could play for them if he wanted), but they do have a few kids who have significant upside. Palmer-Brown's pretty good, him and Carter-Vickers should be in the US backline from here on out if it's up to me. Weston McKennie should be in the men's side from here on out. Heck, the Gonzalez kid from Monterrey should be in the men's side as well sooner rather than later. 

A few others play for development sides for some decent clubs in Europe, and at some point might or might not break through. Olosunde, de la Torre, Sargent (though he can play for the u17), Perez, Lennon and a few others have upside. 

They have players coming through, and it's going to show over the next 4-5 years, the question for me is more who is going to helm that process. If it's Arena and Gulati, they're not going to succeed.


----------



## Chimaera

bleedblue1223 said:


> We have more mediocre talented players, not actually more talented players. We are only "deep" at defense because none of them can solidify a spot consistently. We really aren't deep at any other position.





I don't agree. They have a number of players who would have made rosters in the past without much of a problem. Go look at the rosters for the 2002, 2006, 2010 sides and some of those names are laughable. 

They have a ton more players that are within shouting distance of being on the national side.


----------



## chasespace

Chimaera said:


> They have players coming through, and it's going to show over the next 4-5 years, the question for me is more who is going to helm that process. If it's Arena and Gulati, they're not going to succeed.




Have there been any managers identified that would be a good choice for the US? I know Sunil has a challenger for his next election and I imagine he'll have many more now.


----------



## Chimaera

chasespace said:


> Have there been any managers identified that would be a good choice for the US? I know Sunil has a challenger for his next election and I imagine he'll have many more now.



I mean, that's some of the problem. Who exactly are they going to go get to manage them? 

I don't know who it should be, but in my mind, the US doesn't really have someone they can turn to at this point.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Chimaera said:


> I don't agree. They have a number of players who would have made rosters in the past without much of a problem. Go look at the rosters for the 2002, 2006, 2010 sides and some of those names are laughable.
> 
> They have a ton more players that are within shouting distance of being on the national side.




Yeah, mediocre talent. Many players on defense we are going to look back at laughable. Nagbe and Arriola are meh, and they are starters, the list goes on.


----------



## Chimaera

http://americansoccernow.com/articles/the-missing-years-u-s-soccer-s-development-gap

Is a pretty interesting article about the talent and the lack of it. One thing I'd argue in some ways, is the big crop with Dempsey, Donovan and the likes, they probably limited the development of some of the younger players who might have broken through. When you have national side changing players like they did, the desire to see them with 3-4 cycles is great while it lasts, but then you miss a generation breaking through. 

As the United States get better in the future (at least that should be the hope), the concept of players beyond a select two or three playing more than one or two world cups should disappear.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Best players play. Players don't develop when they play with their national team, it just helps them get integrated into the team, and that can be done in friendlies and less important matches until they prove themselves.


----------



## Ivan13

bleedblue1223 said:


> That's the way he asked them to pronounce it. When he first came up, they used the Euro-traditional pronunciation, but like many others in America, he prefers the Americanized version of the name.




Yeah, but it's an absolute horror to hear someone pronounce his surname like that.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Ivan13 said:


> Yeah, but it's an absolute horror to hear someone pronounce his surname like that.



It's what he prefers, so not really.


----------



## Ivan13

bleedblue1223 said:


> It's what he prefers, so not really.



As a Croat it is, hurts my ears.


----------



## YEM

I really don't think there's any doubt at all that the MLS hurts us and helps the other CONCACAF nations
this situation overall is an utter debacle


----------



## The Abusement Park

My parents were in Iceland during their miracle run in the Euros last year on a ski trip, and being the soccer family that we are soccer came up a lot with the guides there.

According to the guides there every coach at every level has a A level coaching license from FIFA, and it's definitely shown for Iceland. They don't have the best talent, but they play incredibly smart organized soccer. Anf that always seems to be an issue with our players and teams, is that we aren't organized.

I'd really like to see something like that, where we actually coach our players to understand the finer details of the sport instead of just seemingly picking the fastest strongest guy like it almost always seems to be the case.


----------



## phisherman

kyle evs48 said:


> You are leaving out the part where the MLS encourages players to abandon more competitive leagues abroad in pursuit of large sums of money in a pretty bad league.




This is part of the problem. What incentive does an American player have to better himself in Europe when he can earn millions being a big fish in a small pond in MLS.


----------



## John Price




----------



## bleedblue1223

While entertaining, that's fake right?


----------



## Cory Trevor

Ivan13 said:


> As a Croat it is, hurts my ears.



In fairness, basically any country in the Balkans can have people with identical last names but dialects and pronunciation can vary, often noticeably, but yeah, broadcasters have been adding a k to the end of a name for which we already have the phonetic ability to pronounce and even if he prefers it, it's something that makes me notice it every time because it's technically incorrect.


----------



## Cory Trevor

kyle evs48 said:


> You are leaving out the part where the MLS encourages players to abandon more competitive leagues abroad in pursuit of large sums of money in a pretty bad league.




I disagree with this. I really don't enjoy the MLS and probably won't until they have consistent talent in which we are pulling the best talent in the world. No pipe dreams and overaged players. We aren't getting deep in a World Cup run without our domestic league playing well.

To your point though, it can't be forced. It has to be organic which is still at least a decade and a half off.


----------



## Cochese

MLS is garbage, cannot understand the appeal. Such a hinderance to development.


----------



## Burner Account

Cory Trevor said:


> I disagree with this. I really don't enjoy the MLS and probably won't until they have consistent talent in which we are pulling the best talent in the world. No pipe dreams and overaged players. We aren't getting deep in a World Cup run without our domestic league playing well.
> 
> To your point though, it can't be forced. It has to be organic which is still at least a decade and a half off.



I don't really think it's a matter of opinion. It's the same as players leaving European leagues to play in China. You move to a less competitive league for more money. If you need an example of how international managers view this, see: Giovinco, Sebastian.

The US will never pull the best talent in the world.

We aren't getting deep in a World Cup run with MLS players.


----------



## Cochese

It will never happen because it's not part of U.S. sports culture, when you have a league with no relegation structure this is what you get. Complacency, no pressure, stagnation. It goes beyond that though, when you have a league full of has beens and college never weres it is what it is.


----------



## Burner Account

Cochese said:


> It will never happen because it's not part of U.S. sports culture, when you have a league with no relegation structure this is what you get. Complacency, no pressure, stagnation. It goes beyond that though, when you have a league full of has beens and college never weres it is what it is.



That, and the top European leagues/clubs are global institutions that have more support in the US than US teams do.


----------



## Moncherry

The systemic failings of U.S. soccer shouldn't matter in this case. They should always be qualifying for the World Cup. You don't have to be good to make it out of CONCACAF. You needed to tie against Trinidad & Tobago ffs. That's just a colossal f***-up.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Cochese said:


> It will never happen because it's not part of U.S. sports culture, when you have a league with no relegation structure this is what you get. Complacency, no pressure, stagnation. It goes beyond that though, when you have a league full of has beens and college never weres it is what it is.




Relegation has nothing to do with it, that's just laughable.


----------



## Cochese

bleedblue1223 said:


> Relegation has nothing to do with it, that's just laughable.



Apparently you missed the part where I said "it goes beyond that". That's just laughable.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Cochese said:


> Apparently you missed the part where I said "it goes beyond that". That's just laughable.



Yeah, but the idea that relgation existing or not existing having any impact is ridiculous.


----------



## Cochese

Agree to disagree on the matter.


----------



## East Coast Bias

We don't have Pro/Rel in any league in the US for any sport.

Do you think players of all of those leagues don't experience pressure or are complacent? Why is it different for soccer?

The issues are much deeper than this. And they're effecting kids at a younger age, not when they're 25 and fighting for 18th place.


----------



## Dopenose

I've truly never been more depressed about a sporting event in my life... 

I don't understand why some here blame the MLS.. what caused this is American Soccer Moms and Dads and their 'we don't count goals, whats important is to participate'-mentality and the NFL and Handegg in general for stealing all the talent!


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

At least your team will be saved the awkwardness of having to go to Russia and all the political crap that the media would bring into that.


----------



## kingsboy11

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-team-youth-development-to-world-cup-win-2014

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...rsity-problem-world-football?CMP=share_btn_tw

Kyle Martino shared these 2 articles from the Guardian a couple years ago and are pretty relevant to a lot of discussions going around the past 24 hours. The article about the lack of diversity in the U.S. was oh so relatable for me


----------



## bleedblue1223

Yeah, the fact that competitive youth soccer require so much money is ridiculous. When the equipment is a pair of cleats, socks, shin-guards, and your uniform, there is no reason to have to spend thousands each year just to be on a competitive club.

Improve the quality of youth coaches, put soccer fields every where, and make it cheap, so you can ensure that you get as much potential talent playing at an early age as possible. Then if kids still decide to play other sports and you still don't have a wide variety, then fine, but at least put the effort in.


----------



## Bakayoko Ono

Absolutely shocking news.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

kingsboy11 said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-team-youth-development-to-world-cup-win-2014
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...rsity-problem-world-football?CMP=share_btn_tw
> 
> Kyle Martino shared these 2 articles from the Guardian a couple years ago and are pretty relevant to a lot of discussions going around the past 24 hours. The article about the lack of diversity in the U.S. was oh so relatable for me














Maybe there's a lack of diversity because only white people really give a crap about the whole soccer phenomenon? Soccer strikes me these days as the quintessential young white millennial sport in America.

And obviously soccer is popular in Latin America - though Central America has never been as good at it as South America. Soccer culture was introduced by British economic and cultural influence in the late 19th and early 20th century of which there was a lot more in Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay and so forth than in Guatemala, Honduras etc.

But it always struck me that the Latino immigrant soccer culture in the U.S. is either a bit overblown or exists primarily behind closed doors in the form of watching Liga MX. Even at a L.A. Galaxy game in Carson - in a metropolitan area where Hispanics are probably a majority by now and close to some Hispanic population strongholds - you're still more likely to run into white college kids than Hispanics (Dodgers game crowds are in contrast extremely latino). Their love of 'futbol' seems to be contained in a bubble entirely separate from the bubble of U.S. soccer fans who watch MLS or the Premier League. And I have my doubts that U.S. soccer somehow wants it that way as they would stand to gain a lot of money if they could tie that potential to them.


----------



## Cochese

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Maybe there's a lack of diversity because only white people really give a crap about the whole soccer phenomenon? Soccer strikes me these days as the quintessential young white millennial sport in America.
> 
> And obviously soccer is popular in Latin America - though Central America has never been as good at it as South America. Soccer culture was introduced by British economic and cultural influence in the late 19th and early 20th century of which there was a lot more in Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay and so forth than in Guatemala, Honduras etc.
> 
> But it always struck me that the Latino immigrant soccer culture in the U.S. is either a bit overblown or exists primarily behind closed doors in the form of watching Liga MX. Even at a L.A. Galaxy game in Carson - in a metropolitan area where Hispanics are probably a majority by now and close to some Hispanic population strongholds - you're still more likely to run into white college kids than Hispanics (Dodgers game crowds are in contrast extremely latino). Their love of 'futbol' seems to be contained in a bubble entirely separate from the bubble of U.S. soccer fans who watch MLS or the Premier League. And I have my doubts that U.S. soccer somehow wants it that way as they would stand to gain a lot of money if they could tie that potential to them.



Too much of a 'frat' or 'bro' culture for me to support.


----------



## Hadoop

No comments about the fact that this is essentially the same team as the one that won the 2017 Gold Cup just a few months ago?


----------



## NJDevs26

Hadoop said:


> No comments about the fact that this is essentially the same team as the one that won the 2017 Gold Cup just a few months ago?




They beat Costa Rica in the final twenty minutes (in more of a home match than NJ was sadly) and a bunch of jabronis that didn't even make the final of the Hex. If that tournament got them overconfident then shame on the entire team.


----------



## bluesfan94

The issue is that the 25-29 generation is terrible for the United States and that period was terrible developmentally. They redid the developmental structure, but it takes time. That required a reliance on young players (Pulisic, Wood, Arriola, Yedlin) or old players (Bradley, Dempsey, the defense/goalies). That's not what you want. The upside for USA? The young players are good. Pulisic can be a star. Miazga/Brooks/CCV/EPB should provide at least two high quality CBs. Yedlin is really starting to develop. Wood is a decent striker. Horvath/Gonzalez are solid keepers. There are a ton of other young players starting to show up in Europe (Sargent, McKennie, Gooch, Perez, Hyndman, Zelalem, Wright, Weah). The future, even given this hiccup, is bright. 

With regards to diversity, I don't think that's a fair comment. There's a lot of diversity in the system both at the senior level and throughout the youth ranks.


----------



## sabremike

Why does Sunil still have a job? In any other country on the planet if you failed as spectacularly as USSF did last night the federation head would either have been fired or resigned in disgrace 10 minutes after the final whistle. But here, nothing. Face it: nothing is going to change. The same incompetents will keep their jobs. The pay to play racket (which is a cancer to American soccer) will go nowhere. And American soccer will continue to go nowhere, and knowing this makes me sick to my stomach.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Hadoop said:


> No comments about the fact that this is essentially the same team as the one that won the 2017 Gold Cup just a few months ago?





Hadoop said:


> No comments about the fact that this is essentially the same team as the one that won the 2017 Gold Cup just a few months ago?




It's a meaningless tournament and we got a lucky draw.


----------



## DoyleG

Not saying things can't get worse for US Soccer......


----------



## sabremike

Cochese said:


> It will never happen because it's not part of U.S. sports culture, when you have a league with no relegation structure this is what you get. Complacency, no pressure, stagnation. It goes beyond that though, when you have a league full of has beens and college never weres it is what it is.



No system of promotion/relegation is why the NHL is so much worse than the KHL and why the NBA is worse than the European leagues. Seriously, the Pro-Rel cult and their spiritual leader Tinfoil Ted are the worst.


----------



## Uncle Rotter

Hadoop said:


> No comments about the fact that this is essentially the same team as the one that won the 2017 Gold Cup just a few months ago?



Don't they always play the Gold Cup at home?


----------



## HajdukSplit

Cochese said:


> Too much of a 'frat' or 'bro' culture for me to support.




Agree and without going too into politics, a bit racist. One of my Turkish friends went to that friendly pre 2014 World Cup at Red Bull Arena and he talked about the verbal abuse he got from the AO (not typical sports banter). And that's with non-rival fans, I imagine it being worse against CONCACAF rivals


----------



## bleedblue1223

HajdukSplit said:


> Agree and without going too into politics, a bit racist. One of my Turkish friends went to that friendly pre 2014 World Cup at Red Bull Arena and he talked about the verbal abuse he got from the AO (not typical sports banter). And that's with non-rival fans, I imagine it being worse against CONCACAF rivals




Come on, lets not act like @**hole fans are isolated to American soccer fans or the American Outlaws. Anytime you mix alcohol and sports, it is what you get from those individuals that can't handle themselves. That's why I refuse to go to NFL games, the fans from the city I live in are obnoxious at games. 

Lets also not compare racism in American soccer to the levels of racism in Euro football. Doesn't excuse racism on any level, but lets not act like it's the worst here or isolated to just here.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Cochese said:


> Too much of a 'frat' or 'bro' culture for me to support.




So like every other American sports event?


----------



## chasespace

Let's all just agree that nearly every facet of American Soccer needs some kind of overhaul.


----------



## bleedblue1223

chasespace said:


> Let's all just agree that nearly every facet of American Soccer needs some kind of overhaul.




It's really not to that level.


----------



## Elliman

I've been reading this site for over 10 years and this post has to take the cake. Seriously? Disgusting.




TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Maybe there's a lack of diversity because only white people really give a crap about the whole soccer phenomenon? Soccer strikes me these days as the quintessential young white millennial sport in America.
> 
> And obviously soccer is popular in Latin America - though Central America has never been as good at it as South America. Soccer culture was introduced by British economic and cultural influence in the late 19th and early 20th century of which there was a lot more in Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay and so forth than in Guatemala, Honduras etc.
> 
> But it always struck me that the Latino immigrant soccer culture in the U.S. is either a bit overblown or exists primarily behind closed doors in the form of watching Liga MX. Even at a L.A. Galaxy game in Carson - in a metropolitan area where Hispanics are probably a majority by now and close to some Hispanic population strongholds - you're still more likely to run into white college kids than Hispanics (Dodgers game crowds are in contrast extremely latino). Their love of 'futbol' seems to be contained in a bubble entirely separate from the bubble of U.S. soccer fans who watch MLS or the Premier League. And I have my doubts that U.S. soccer somehow wants it that way as they would stand to gain a lot of money if they could tie that potential to them.


----------



## Cochese

East Coast Bias said:


> So like every other American sports event?



Not even close.


----------



## Chimaera

Yes, fans going to matches are going to be less diverse. But that's also on purpose because many of the stadiums they want to use for matches are housed in areas with less diversity. Heck, if the US played a Latin American side in DC, LA, NY, Chicago and other big metropolitan areas, they would be out drawn and basically have to play away matches. 

So they put matches against Honduras, El Salvador, or the like in places with lower immigrant community populations. 

You also have the sheer economics of who can afford to go. Sporting events across the spectrum are typically attended by middle and upper class white people because they have the disposable income. That's not completely true across the board, but that is where much of the population still is who attends sporting events. It also doesn't help that the vast majority of the 'new' fan base for the sport in the US is typically educated, young, and middle class. that means nothing for the players themselves, but that's where it is for fans. But that's also somewhat of who the US Supporter groups are trying to attract. They don't want the wine and cheeser market. They want people who are going to come, have a good time, get a bit rowdy, and support the side. It's much more fun to go to matches when people are into it. 




On the MLS comments, I think it's easy to crap on what's a pretty bad league. but then again, if some of the young players for the US went abroad, they might end up like Julian Green or Jozy when he want, cast between multiple clubs with no playing time. At some point, staying home isn't the worst option if you're not getting playing time. It's easy to say Pulisic, Pulisic, Pulisic, but for every kid like him who has actually gotten some playing time, there's another 40-50 (way more actually) who have not gotten any look or sniff at playing time. It also isn't because they weren't talented or what have you. There's still a stigma against some American players.


----------



## IU Hawks fan

Chimaera said:


> Yes, fans going to matches are going to be less diverse. But that's also on purpose because many of the stadiums they want to use for matches are housed in areas with less diversity. Heck, if the US played a Latin American side in DC, LA, NY, *Chicago* and other big metropolitan areas, they would be out drawn and basically have to play away matches.




FWIW, that top photo is at Soldier Field. Not sure of the opponent, though.

EDIT: Never mind, that's a World Cup watch party.


----------



## IU Hawks fan




----------



## bleedblue1223

Will it be a live firing?


----------



## SJSharks72

bleedblue1223 said:


> Will it be a live firing?



More like “hey sorry we f***ed up qualifying hope you’ll forgive us! By the way nothing is going to change and we are going to continue business as usual cause we were so close!”


----------



## Chimaera

He'll probably announce that they're going to refocus efforts. That we were oh so close. 

Don't mind me while I cash some checks.


----------



## East Coast Bias

"We wanna thank Bruce for doing the job on such short notice and let you know we're starting a very diligent search for a new manager today." 

He's probably announcing that he's not seeking re-election in Feb.


----------



## Chimaera

Sunil says he isn't sure about running again, but some people have said he's asked them about nominating him. 

More of the same. #GulatiOut


----------



## East Coast Bias

The irony is Sunil's staying on for power/money under the guise that he's managing 2026 and making in roads with FIFA.

He's no better than the clowns in FIFA that were charged with corruption.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

The game suffers for the business.


----------



## Chimaera

He doesn't actually get paid that much being USSF president. It's a power thing for him. 

He won't leave till he knows he can get the 2026 bid across the line. 

They need to nominate someone else and take power from him.


----------



## sabremike

Eurosnob: MLS is terrible because they brought in the best American players and hurt the national team.

Eurosnob after MLS stops bringing in the best American players: MLS is terrible because all the best American players are playing in Europe. That's why I watch real football like the European leagues and wouldn't piss on MLS if it were on fire.


----------



## Cochese

MLS is terrible, no matter the narrative. Don't fool yourself.


----------



## sabremike

Cochese said:


> MLS is terrible, no matter the narrative. Don't fool yourself.



To steal a line from Jim Cornette: Thank you very little for your ridiculous opinion, you're welcome even less.


----------



## dogbazinho

Personally I hope they hire LVG so he can hear him say "Hey you.. fat man." referring to Tim Howard.


----------



## John Price

LVG's United tenure scars me. It's terrifying.

Watching U17 world cup right now in my PJ's at home. 2-0 USA 57th minute.


----------



## John Price

USA looks f***ing DOMINANT against Paraguay. Sargent with a goal, Weam scored too, 4-0. Surely through now.


----------



## John Price

5-0!

Weah hat trick!

Clown pounding!


----------



## SJSharks72

Now they’re going to use this result as a positive for pay-to-play.


----------



## kingsboy11

I had to go to class after Weah's second goal (which was awesome btw) and to much delight saw the score. They'll play either Japan or England in the quarters. Jadon Sancho got recalled by Dortmund from the England squad, but England still has a lot of depth.


----------



## Vamos Rafa

I hate to say it because I'm an MLS fan but I don't think it's a coincidence that ever since the US big names started coming to MLS (Howard, Dempsey, Holden, Guzan), USMNT have gone downhill.


----------



## phisherman

If you look at the nations that produce top quality players they tend to export their talent to other leagues. MLS isn't really doing that. In fact they're doing the opposite by bringing the American players back to MLS.


----------



## Vamos Rafa

I am completely fine with MLS continuing to be a feeder league for Europe and a safety net for former stars who can't cut it in Europe anymore. I mean what the heck is Altidore doing here? He should still be in Europe. Not necessarily in La Liga (whers he failed) or the Premiership but in other European leagues like Eridivisie (where he flourished).


----------



## John Price

Big Sam to manage US? http://www.espnfc.com/united-states...nterested-in-taking-united-states-job-sources


----------



## John Price

In the juniors England advance on penalties against Japan. They will play the USA Saturday at 10:20 AM EST.


----------



## East Coast Bias

G F O P said:


> Big Sam to manage US? http://www.espnfc.com/united-states...nterested-in-taking-united-states-job-sources




No thank you. He's horrible.


----------



## BKIslandersFan

Big Sam is a great manager. I don’t know where you get this idea he’s horrible.


----------



## Live in the Now

I am not automatically against it.


----------



## Cody Webster

US to get clown pounded by Portugal in a friendly on November 14. They don't even have a manager and they scheduled a match against Portugal.


----------



## East Coast Bias

We aren't a shit PL club who need to win 30% of our matches to not get relegated in the next 2 months.

He specializes in mercenary jobs for months at a time. You think he's gonna take on a full 4 year cycle in a program that needs rebuilding and restructuring?

He's as corrupt as they come.

And he has no international experience, b/c he got fired after 1 game as England's manager for being corrupt.

Other than that, he's perfect for the job.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

G F O P said:


> Big Sam to manage US? http://www.espnfc.com/united-states...nterested-in-taking-united-states-job-sources




NO.


----------



## Burner Account

East Coast Bias said:


> We aren't a **** PL club who need to win 30% of our matches to not get relegated in the next 2 months.
> 
> He specializes in mercenary jobs for months at a time. You think he's gonna take on a full 4 year cycle in a program that needs rebuilding and restructuring?
> 
> He's as corrupt as they come.
> 
> And he has no international experience, b/c he got fired after 1 game as England's manager for being corrupt.
> 
> Other than that, he's perfect for the job.



We aren't a shit PL club. We are a shit national team.

I'm not sure how I feel about it yet, but I think you are oversimplifying Fat Sam's role. He specializes in getting results from players who are less than world-class.


----------



## Live in the Now

We are a bad national team with bad players and it is very likely he could get good results with them. 

I would prefer Pareja though.


----------



## sabremike

With a national federation that is totally corrupt and needs to be cleaned up the last thing I want is a new manager who literally lost a job because of his own corrupt actions.


----------



## kingsboy11

Don't care if Sam and Blanc are interested right now. We need to figure out who our Federation's president will be come February before we start searching for a permanent coach. My personal choice would be Pareja as well, but I think that's very unlikely.


----------



## chasespace

Let Jack Hackworth coach them until they find a replacement. Plays pretty soccer with the kids, let him try his hand with the men.


----------



## Ceremony

Speaking of getting questionably appropriate foreign imports in to lead a morally and strategically bankrupt governing body, the recently vacated position of Scotland manager seems to have some people suggesting Jurgen Klinsmann as a candidate. Could regulars of this thread be kind enough to furnish me with proof of how bad he is so I can counter these suggestions appropriately? Thanks in advance.


----------



## kingsboy11

Grant Wahl says that Landon Donovan is considering running for US Soccer president.



Also says that Boston lawyer Steven Gans has received the 3 letters of nomination that he needs to be an official candidate.

Forgot to mention this and I think its important. Kyle Martino had said that he was also heavily considering the presidency, but decided against the position because it's unpaid. It's a problem that is going to limit the amount of options available for the job.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Ceremony said:


> Speaking of getting questionably appropriate foreign imports in to lead a morally and strategically bankrupt governing body, the recently vacated position of Scotland manager seems to have some people suggesting Jurgen Klinsmann as a candidate. Could regulars of this thread be kind enough to furnish me with proof of how bad he is so I can counter these suggestions appropriately? Thanks in advance.




Well if it's between him and Paul Lambert..


----------



## Ceremony

TheMoreYouKnow said:


> Well if it's between him and Paul Lambert..



You've never seen a more depressing who's who list when you look at the candidates whoring themselves about for it.


----------



## chasespace

Ceremony said:


> Speaking of getting questionably appropriate foreign imports in to lead a morally and strategically bankrupt governing body, the recently vacated position of Scotland manager seems to have some people suggesting Jurgen Klinsmann as a candidate. Could regulars of this thread be kind enough to furnish me with proof of how bad he is so I can counter these suggestions appropriately? Thanks in advance.




Do you like watching players routinely played out of position and changing the formation wholesale from game to game even if they're in the same week?

Well do I have a treat for you!


----------



## Savant

kingsboy11 said:


> Grant Wahl says that Landon Donovan is considering running for US Soccer president.
> 
> 
> 
> Also says that Boston lawyer Steven Gans has received the 3 letters of nomination that he needs to be an official candidate.
> 
> Forgot to mention this and I think its important. Kyle Martino had said that he was also heavily considering the presidency, but decided against the position because it's unpaid. It's a problem that is going to limit the amount of options available for the job.





Wynalda is running as well. He wants pro/rel and to run on the FIFA calendar.


----------



## Ceremony

chasespace said:


> Do you like watching players routinely played out of position and changing the formation wholesale from game to game even if they're in the same week?
> 
> Well do I have a treat for you!



You're just providing fuel to the people who think Strachan was too stubborn in persisting with the same players, you'll have to do better.


----------



## sabremike

Savant said:


> Wynalda is running as well. He wants pro/rel and to run on the FIFA calendar.



I want my Whalers to return to Hartford and for Bill Gates to give me a billion dollars. That's not happening either.


----------



## bleedblue1223

No one is going to beat Sunil, he just has too much power. The only thing we can hope for is enough pressure where they decide that Sunil will remain responsible for purely the business side of it, and they bring someone in to overhaul the soccer side of things.


----------



## East Coast Bias

bleedblue1223 said:


> No one is going to beat Sunil, he just has too much power. The only thing we can hope for is enough pressure where they decide that Sunil will remain responsible for purely the business side of it, and they bring someone in to overhaul the soccer side of things.




yeah agreed.

Especially with his clout within FIFA, and being in charge of the 2026 bid. No one in CONCACAF or FIFA want to see him defeated. Not happening.


----------



## chasespace

bleedblue1223 said:


> No one is going to beat Sunil, he just has too much power. The only thing we can hope for is enough pressure where they decide that Sunil will remain responsible for purely the business side of it, and they bring someone in to overhaul the soccer side of things.




We currently are without a technical director since we showed Jurgen the door.


----------



## BKIslandersFan

Slaven Bilic a potential front runner according to Talksport. He would be a great hire.


----------



## kingsboy11

Dave Sarachan named the Interim coach for now


----------



## sabremike

Cody Webster said:


> US to get clown pounded by Portugal in a friendly on November 14. They don't even have a manager and they scheduled a match against Portugal.



No, we are going to win that match just to piss off and infuriate all of us.


----------



## Savant

Some reports that Tata Martino has turned down USMNT job to stay with Atlanta


----------



## kingsboy11

always thought he was a long shot anyways. He would've done well with our young players


----------



## kingsboy11

Kyle Martino changes his mind, decides to run for U.S. Soccer president. 

Also former player Paul Caliguiri announced his intentions to run as well.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I love the Two Robbies and Kyle on NBC, they are the best studio show in the business. 

Wish him luck though....


----------



## chasespace

I honestly think there should be elections for the Technical Director as well, as they're the ones overseeing the soccer side of things.


----------



## kingsboy11

21 man roster announced for the Portugal friendly...

Ethan Horvath, Jesse Gonzalez, Bill Hamid;
Deandre Yedlin, John brooks, Matt Miazga, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Jorge Villafana, Eric Lichaj, Tim Ream
Kellyn Acosta, Tyler Adams, Ale Bedoya, Lynden Gooch, Weston McKennie, Kellyn Rowe, Danny Williams
Dom Dwyer, Juan Aguedelo, CJ Sapong, Josh Sargent

No Pulisic or Bobby Wood. Other notable omission was midfielder Jonathan Gonzalez, but Monterrey wanted to keep him around for the Liga MX playoffs. More than half this roster is 24 years old or younger. Also had to figure some players like Zach Steffen, Marky Delgado, Christian Roldan would have been called in if they weren't still in the MLS playoffs


----------



## Savant

I like most of the call ups. Don’t really know why Bedoya is there as I don’t think USMNT should be calling up anyone who won’t play in Qatar World Cup but with Gonzalez unavailable, whatever. If I can think of any more omissions I’ll edit.


----------



## bluesfan94

Savant said:


> I like most of the call ups. Don’t really know why Bedoya is there as I don’t think USMNT should be calling up anyone who won’t play in Qatar World Cup but with Gonzalez unavailable, whatever. If I can think of any more omissions I’ll edit.




I mean, there are a few other guys I wouldn't hate seeing get a call up like Josh Perez but there's no one I'm really upset about missing out. Maybe Manneh


----------



## Savant

bluesfan94 said:


> I mean, there are a few other guys I wouldn't hate seeing get a call up like Josh Perez but there's no one I'm really upset about missing out. Maybe Manneh



I would have liked if Antonee Robinson got in actually as well. Brandon Vincent as well perhaps. They really need to figure out who can play LB.

Jordan Siebatcheu is lighting up Ligue 2. Haji Wright maybe should have gotten a look as well. Interesting case for Christian Ramirez too at striker. Younger than Dwyer and had a better season.

Glad from RSL had a really good season but USA is hypothetically deep at CB.

Ream, Lichaj, Villafana out, Robinson, Vincent, Glad in.

Agudelo, Dwyer, Sapong out, Siebatcheu, Wright, Ramirez in.

I’m good with that.

Bedoya, Williams out; Pulisic, Gonzalez, Roldan in when there are no obligations. Steffen may have earned a spot himself too. That’s 23 names right there that they can develop.


----------



## Bures Elbow

Live in the Now said:


> I am not automatically against it.





Cody Webster said:


> US to get clown pounded by Portugal in a friendly on November 14. They don't even have a manager and they scheduled a match against Portugal.




This is Portugals roster for the two friendlies they have in November, it's very much a Germany confederation cup approach with a lot of young players getting action on good clubs while resting a majority of the starters.






No one is going to get clown pounded.


----------



## Savant

Wanted to make this more concise. Here is a sample 23 man USMNT roster based off who was picked and who “should” have been. If they can stick with something like this as a base they are in relatively good shape. Older players like Nagbe, Altidore, etc., could sneak back in or younger players like Carleton, Weah, etc., can earn a spot but at least this is some direction:

USMNT

Gonzalez GK (or Hamid)
Yedlin DEF
McKennie MID
Acosta MID
Gonzalez MID
Brooks DEF
Wright FWD
Morris FWD
Wood FWD
Pulisic MID
Gooch MID (or Lennon)
Delgado MID (or Saief)
Arriola MID
Glad DEF
Robinson DEF (or Vincent)
Carter-Vickers DEF
Roldan MID
Adams MID
Sargent FWD
Miazga DEF
Siebatcheu FWD
Horvath GK
Steffen GK
Could be worse.


----------



## John Price

Big Sam still interested


----------



## John Price

> Last month, Mike Forde, the New York-based management consultant who worked as Allardyce's performance director at Bolton before spending six years as director of football operations at Chelsea, told ESPN FC: "Sam is a modern manager with a great ability to combine new technology and ideas with the basics of how to win games.
> 
> "His record speaks for itself. Everywhere he goes, he gets results. Sam is one of the best coaches to build a clear team identity and style. At national team level, this is key with limited time together as a squad.


----------



## kingsboy11




----------



## Burner Account

Do people really believe that this program is too good for Allardyce?


----------



## East Coast Bias

What does Sam Allardyce do for us? Would have been fine to hire him a year ago to qualify.

Now? The program needs major work, major change, and an injection of youth. That does not sound like a job for Sam Allardyce.


----------



## John Price

Ian Darke calling USA Canada


----------



## Mount Suribachi

G F O P said:


> Big Sam still interested




I listened to that interview live. He was _very_ passionate about wanting the job. 

He's basically ignoring both the Rangers and Everton jobs to wait for the USA job.


----------



## Burner Account

East Coast Bias said:


> What does Sam Allardyce do for us? Would have been fine to hire him a year ago to qualify.
> 
> Now? The program needs major work, major change, and an injection of youth. That does not sound like a job for Sam Allardyce.



I'm not saying I want him to be the manager. What I am saying is that he has a track record of getting results from poor quality, and that people should not write him off just because he manages the Sunderlands and Crystal Palaces. Because if we're being completely honest, that is who we are on the international stage.


----------



## East Coast Bias

kyle evs48 said:


> I'm not saying I want him to be the manager. What I am saying is that he has a track record of getting results from poor quality, and that people should not write him off just because he manages the Sunderlands and Crystal Palaces. Because if we're being completely honest, that is who we are on the international stage.




Yea I hear. But we're not going to be relevant for awhile missing this WC, and that gives us time to take a step back and not claw victories out on friendlies. Instead of Palace or Sunderland, be Huddersfield or Southampton. Build up.

I also do not think a man who has shown he's very much pro pay to play in charge of our program when we need to kill that mindset is good.


----------



## Burner Account

East Coast Bias said:


> Yea I hear. But we're not going to be relevant for awhile missing this WC, and that gives us time to take a step back and not claw victories out on friendlies. Instead of Palace or Sunderland, be Huddersfield or Southampton. Build up.
> 
> I also do not think a man who has shown he's very much pro pay to play in charge of our program when we need to kill that mindset is good.



I don't know much about the program's pipeline, but is the next wave of talent close/old enough that it makes sense to hire a manager for them? I.e., should they hire a manager more or less for the current group, or the teens?

Sam's bungs may not be the best influence, I do agree there.


----------



## kingsboy11

They need to hire a manager that is going to grow with the team. Allardyce just seems like a quick fix option when that doesn't fit our age bracket going forward. We have 4 between now and Qatar and to hire a big name manager like Allardyce doesn't seem right. Like someone mentioned earlier he might have been good to replace Klinnsman, but not now. The next manager will need to build the team around Pulisic and see how we can get the best out of him and the players around him. The issue is that guys like Jozy and Bradley are still young enough to still get called in, whether they deserve to or not because we don't have guys ready to take the reigns from them. Especially guys like Jozy. We have Wood, but we still don't know what we have in him yet. Sargent is obviously too young, but US soccer thinks highly of him. At least in Bradley's case we have guys like McKennie and J. Gonzalez coming up, but both are only 18. US soccer should be thinking long term for the next manager, a manger who can grow and adapt with the team.


----------



## John Price




----------



## kingsboy11

For some reason they released the lineup a couple of hours before kickoff, but here it is. Formation seems like a 4-3-1-2? Or 4-1-2-1-2?


----------



## sabremike

3 Red Bulls academy products in the starting IX.


----------



## Bures Elbow

No idea what portugals lineup is going to be, considering Bernardo Silva and Joao Mario along with Andre Siklva started in the 3-0 win vs Saudi Arabia they will probably rest. And Santos will give the young prospects a chance to showcase themselves.

Edit: Starting 11 is 

------------------------Beto-----------------------
Nelson Semedo-Pepe-ricardo Ferriera-Antunes
-------------Danilo---------Manuel Fernandes------
Gelson Martins------Bruno Fernandes---------Bruma
--------------------------Guedes-----------------------------

Incredibly young team. Nelson Semedo and Pepe the obvious players who are well known, Bruma/Gelson Martins/Guedes is a very skilled mobile attack so this should be a entertaining game.


----------



## kingsboy11

missed the first half, but saw McKennie's goal and Horvath's howler though.


----------



## sabremike

Do you realize if this was the squad we had sent to Trinidad we'd be headed to Russia? What an indictment of the first team that is.


----------



## Bures Elbow

I was just thinking the same thing.

Its tough to judge because Portugal was essentially playing a B/C team and one that was scratched together in a matter of days, but the way the USA pressed from kickoff and attacked with pacy ball movement was different from the last few qualification matches.

In any case how some of those players didnt play in Trinidad or other matches is highly questionable. At the very least they will not scandalously miss the 2022 World Cup.


----------



## Savant

Bures Elbow said:


> I was just thinking the same thing.
> 
> Its tough to judge because Portugal was essentially playing a B/C team and one that was scratched together in a matter of days, but the way the USA pressed from kickoff and attacked with pacy ball movement was different from the last few qualification matches.
> 
> In any case how some of those players didnt play in Trinidad or other matches is highly questionable. At the very least they will not scandalously miss the 2022 World Cup.



That was a pretty strong Portugal team name wise. Definitely not a C team by any means. 

Arena was brought in to clean a mess and only called in players that he knew. USA Soccer knew what it was getting into when they brought Arena in. Should he have called in some of those players? Absolutely. But it’s not a surprise that he didn’t.


----------



## bluesfan94

sabremike said:


> Do you realize if this was the squad we had sent to Trinidad we'd be headed to Russia? What an indictment of the first team that is.



I don't think that's fair to say whatsoever. Judging a friendly against a B team at best is not the same as judging a meaningful game. Remember when we beat Germany in a friendly? It's meaningless


----------



## sabremike

bluesfan94 said:


> I don't think that's fair to say whatsoever. Judging a friendly against a B team at best is not the same as judging a meaningful game. Remember when we beat Germany in a friendly? It's meaningless



That Portugal B team would've toyed with Trinidad. The youth side we put out looked a million times better with a million times more effort than the embarrassment in Trinidad.


----------



## bluesfan94

sabremike said:


> That Portugal B team would've toyed with Trinidad. The youth side we put out looked a million times better with a million times more effort than the embarrassment in Trinidad.



Looking purely at talent, sure. Of course, looking purely at talent, so would have the USMNT. You can't compare these things


----------



## sabremike

Exactly how could the kids have done worse? At least they would've tried. Besides Puslic and possibly Dempsey everyone who played in that fiasco was a disgrace. Saying the kids would've got the job done isn't as much praise of them as it is condemnation of the heartless first team.


----------



## kingsboy11

I truly do believe Arena when he says that he would've brought in different players if they qualified. I understand why he didn't as he wanted to stick with the guys that was playing throughout the hex, but that doesn't mean I agree with that logic. If they're good enough to play and can help the team win, they should play regardless of age. It was evident yesterday that McKennie, Miazga are more than capable of in handling their position.


----------



## N o o d l e s

Really interested to see players like Pulisic, McKennie, Miazga, Carter-Vickers, Sargent etc develop


----------



## SJSharks72

Bures Elbow said:


> I was just thinking the same thing.
> 
> Its tough to judge because Portugal was essentially playing a B/C team and one that was scratched together in a matter of days, but the way the USA pressed from kickoff and attacked with pacy ball movement was different from the last few qualification matches.
> 
> In any case how some of those players didnt play in Trinidad or other matches is highly questionable. At the very least they will not scandalously miss the 2022 World Cup.



Which players should have been called in? McKennie or Adams who are 18 years old and could have very well cracked under the pressure? The only one I’ll give you in Miazga. No coach is going to play an 18 year old in their first cap in such a huge game. Acosta did play, Lichaj looked good but Villafana is better. The problem was we played Altidore and Gonzalez (who should never be on the national team) if we replaced Altidore with Morris/Dempsey with Pulisic playing behind one or both of them and Brooks wasn’t injured and played for Gonzalez we would have been fine.


----------



## John Price




----------



## John Price




----------



## kingsboy11

G F O P said:


>





Glad he saw the writing on the wall, but he should've resigned minutes after the final whistle went in Trinidad. No denying he did pretty well in growing the sport overall, but results matter. Him hanging on to Klinnsman a year too long really did him in. Didn't have enough time to get the right coach and settled with Arena. But if this Kathy Carter person runs for President, I fear it'll be more of the same. But overall its a step in the right direction. I thought I'd feel more excited about this to be honest.


----------



## bleedblue1223

Apparently, Hope Solo is going to run for the presidency. You know, Sunil Gulati ain't so bad anymore.


----------



## SJSharks72

bleedblue1223 said:


> Apparently, Hope Solo is going to run for the presidency. You know, Sunil Gulati ain't so bad anymore.



I agree with you but some of the issues she presents are definitely important. “Pay to play” equal pay for women emphasis on youth set up


----------



## bleedblue1223

SJSharks39 said:


> I agree with you but some of the issues she presents are definitely important. “Pay to play” equal pay for women emphasis on youth set up




My only thing with the equal pay is that it should really be tied to revenue brought in. If women bring in more revenue, then overall they should be paid more, and if the men make more, then overall they should make more. 

The pay of the top 25 players on each side are paid pretty similarly. When you look at the top 10 on each side, you had some women making more than some of the men. Typically the men have higher revenues compared to the women, but after their tour after the World Cup win, it pushed the women slightly higher.

It's a more complicated issue than some want to believe.


----------



## SJSharks72

bleedblue1223 said:


> My only thing with the equal pay is that it should really be tied to revenue brought in. If women bring in more revenue, then overall they should be paid more, and if the men make more, then overall they should make more.
> 
> The pay of the top 25 players on each side are paid pretty similarly. When you look at the top 10 on each side, you had some women making more than some of the men. Typically the men have higher revenues compared to the women, but after their tour after the World Cup win, it pushed the women slightly higher.
> 
> It's a more complicated issue than some want to believe.



I was actually on a panel a few years ago where I said almost the exact same thing. I think it is a topic that needs to looked at closely over the years. And so it should be brought up this election.


----------



## bleedblue1223

SJSharks39 said:


> I was actually on a panel a few years ago where I said almost the exact same thing. I think it is a topic that needs to looked at closely over the years. And so it should be brought up this election.




Agreed.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

She's not winning. It'll likely be Wynalda or the person Gulati hand-picked.


----------



## Albatros

Pulišić ranked 77th in the world by the Guardian:

The 100 best footballers in the world 2017 – 100-71


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> She's not winning. It'll likely be Wynalda or the person Gulati hand-picked.



I think I read that there was always no chance of him running but I really wanted LD to be the next president. It seems that whenever he is on the broadcast, I tend to agree with everything he says.


----------



## Chimaera

I'd like to see Kyle Martino, but change who isn't Sunil is good. 

Hope Solo getting votes would be a crime. 

Sure, women should be paid more, but it's hard to justify equal money if they're not bringing in revenue that's even remotely similar.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Chimaera said:


> I'd like to see Kyle Martino, but change who isn't Sunil is good.
> 
> Hope Solo getting votes would be a crime.
> 
> Sure, women should be paid more, but it's hard to justify equal money if they're not bringing in revenue that's even remotely similar.




Agree on Martino. 

Really hoping it's not Wynalda. He drives me crazy.


----------



## sabremike

I want Hope Solo to win so she can personally beat the crap out of all the men's players with the exception of Pulisic and Dempsey for being utter failures.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

The woman Gulati endorsed is probably more of the same. I don't want anyone winning who Gulati endorses. 

Wynalda is probably the only other realistic candidate. Whatever you think of the guy, he should bring some change, and isn't entrenched in the system. I'm fine with him winning.


----------



## chasespace

I'd prefer they follow through on the rumors they're looking to change the structure so the President basically runs the business side of things while creating a technical director position to run the soccer side of things.


----------



## The Zetterberg Era

I really hope Liverpool uses some of the Coutinho money to go get Pulisic and give him Coutinho's old role.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## bleedblue1223

The Zetterberg Era said:


> I really hope Liverpool uses some of the Coutinho money to go get Pulisic and give him Coutinho's old role.




I wouldn't. He's in a great situation to develop where he is. He could potentially derail his progression if he doesn't succeed there, and he wouldn't have an open spot as a winger with Mane and Salah.


----------



## kingsboy11

spintheblackcircle said:


>









Didn't think that this **** show of a federation could do anything worse. This dude actually wanted to play for us and we let him go to our biggest rivals because we couldn't even bother to give him a ****ing phone call. Dude was going to be starter for us for years. Unbelievable.


----------



## Big McLargehuge

The USSF is nothing short of incompetent.


----------



## Cody Webster

kingsboy11 said:


> Didn't think that this **** show of a federation could do anything worse. This dude actually wanted to play for us and we let him go to our biggest rivals because we couldn't even bother to give him a ****ing phone call. Dude was going to be starter for us for years. Unbelievable.




Amazing that they can't even give the kid a call to tell them why they aren't bringing him to play in a friendly. It was a great move on their part to let him stay and play in the playoffs, but you might want to think about communicating that next time


----------



## Jersey Fresh

Classic Kenny Saief situation. The decisions these idiots that run federations make no sense sometimes. Although, in the Saief/Israel NT situation it was more a blockheaded manager.


----------



## kingsboy11

Welcome to the website of U.S. Soccer's Athlete Council

The candidates for US soccer president were given a questionnaire by the USSF athlete council. Basically providing some insights into their plans if elected president.


----------



## YEM

Big McLargehuge said:


> The USSF is nothing short of incompetent.



the incompetence is staggering
but, extremely American in style
souls have been sold for in pursuit of the $ [yay MLS] with glory an afterthought


----------



## bleedblue1223

The reason they didn't call him up was correct, they wanted him to stay with his club for the playoffs. The problem was communicating it, and with all the influx with US Soccer at the moment, it's very easy to see how something like that would fall through the cracks. Who's responsibility is it to do something like that? Probably the manager, and the interim manager really doesn't the power/authority to say how he'll be used in the future. Why would he go out of his way to help out the next guy that will get selected for the job.

That's why they probably should've had an agreement with Arena to stay on-board, keep things stable, until everything else got sorted out. Basically no one realized it was their responsibility, and no one did it in the end. I wouldn't call it incompetence, just a consequence of having everything influx.


----------



## kingsboy11

This Jonathan Gonzalez saga appears to get worse and worse for US soccer.


----------



## bleedblue1223

I don't think people realize the consequences of an under-staffed organization and how much money it would take to fix the issues they complain about.


----------



## DoyleG

Oh, Solo.



> US Soccer has been "blinded" by its power and neglected the women's game, says former USA goalkeeper Hope Solo.
> The 36-year-old Women's World Cup-winner has filed a legal complaint against the federation (USSF), despite announcing she was running for president in December.


----------



## Albatros

Good read by Geoff Cameron in the Players' Tribune:

"_The powers that be in U.S. Soccer have created a poisonous divide between the MLS players and the so-called “European” players, and until that culture is torn down, the USMNT will continue to slide backwards. With U.S. Soccer’s presidential election coming up this weekend, and the coaching vacancy yet to be filled, this issue needs to be addressed right now. It’s time to learn from our mistakes — as players, coaches and as an organization. It’s time to look forward and get to the heart of the matter._"

What Must Change in U.S. Soccer | By Geoff Cameron


----------



## Savant

Cordeiro elected President. 

One of the worst choices. New boss is the same as the old boss.


----------



## East Coast Bias

Not remotely surprised


----------



## kingsboy11

What pisses e off the most about this whole thing is that anywhere else in the world, there would have been severe changes to the program. People would've been fired and everyone would fix what went wrong. Over here? "Nah, we all good over fam. We were one game away, nothing dramtic needs to happen". Between the 2 "status quo" guy in Carter and Cordeiro, I would prefer Cordeiro simply because Sunil and Garber lobbied for her to run. Time for him to put his money where his mouth is. But I can't say I'm excited about the future of US soccer after this whole election process.


----------



## Savant

East Coast Bias said:


> Not remotely surprised



Even Carter would have been better.


----------



## HajdukSplit

Not surprised, guys like Wynalda and Martino (the best shots as outsider candidates) never seemed to get any support beyond the local state federations, the voting blocs which consisted of MLS, Athletes Council etc.. with the majority of the votes were always for Carter or Cordeiro.

Only thing I hope this election showed is the corruption of MLS/SUM relationship, but it will all be forgotten in a few months


----------



## bluesfan94

Happy with the team we called up.


----------



## kingsboy11

Was hoping Keaton Parks would've gotten called up, but overall I'm pretty content with the lineup. Just wished we could play more than 1 friendly though.


----------



## SJSharks72

Looks like 

Steffen
Yedlin-Miazga-CCV-Villafana
Trapp
Delgado-Nagbe
Adams-Wood-Saief


----------



## Fro

Thought they played well...glad weah got it...


----------



## East Coast Bias

Tyler Adams is a stud. 

I love watching him now, but it’s prob best for him if he moves over to Leipzig or Salzburg. Preferably Leipzig cause it’s a better league and he’ll be on tv (assuming he gets game).


----------



## gphr513

Yeah, Tyler Adams is definitely on my radar now. I'll be interested to watch him in MLS this year. He really impressed me last night.

I was watching the Wild game so I didn't pay full attention, but I didn't notice any real gaffes from the Miazga-CCV pairing.


----------



## SJSharks72

New roster for Bolivia friendly was just released.

GK: Hamid, Bono, Horvath

Defenders: CCV, Lichaj, Miazga, Olosunde, Palmer-Brown, Robinson, Villafana, Zimmermann

Mids: Corona, Gooch, Green, Guido, McKennie, Parks, Pulisic, Rubin, Weah

Forwards: Novakovich, Sargent

First thoughts: I love it. Only two that they are missing off the top of my head are Yedlin and Adams. Great to see Sargent, Weah, Parks, Olosunde all getting chances, also very happy that Green is getting another chance


----------



## kingsboy11

Really excited to see Parks alongside McKinnie


----------



## kingsboy11

Lineup for the game against Bolivia.


----------



## sabremike

I'm just remembering reading posts from lunatics saying us missing the World Cup would be the best thing that could happen to American soccer. Tonight they play a meaningless friendly in an 18,000 seat stadium that might be 2/3rds full with maybe a couple of dozen people watching the broadcast. Interest in the national team is at it's lowest point since the late 80's-early 90's wiping out most of the gains made since then. Not only was missing the World Cup the biggest disaster in American soccer history it's also the biggest most devastating on field disaster in American sporting history.


----------



## Live in the Now

sabremike said:


> I'm just remembering reading posts from lunatics saying us missing the World Cup would be the best thing that could happen to American soccer. Tonight they play a meaningless friendly in an 18,000 seat stadium that might be 2/3rds full with maybe a couple of dozen people watching the broadcast. Interest in the national team is at it's lowest point since the late 80's-early 90's wiping out most of the gains made since then. Not only was missing the World Cup the biggest disaster in American soccer history it's also the biggest most devastating on field disaster in American sporting history.




Yep. I don't know who thought it was going to be good, but I do remember reading that. It was the worst thing that could happen and we still don't even have a coach.


----------



## cgf

If you can bring in the right coach to build a young team that plays with a cohesive plan with the ball, for the next cycle, and can put some decent football together four years from now; then this could well end up being a very necessary reality check for your FA that it sucks was needed, like 98 and especially 2000 where for us. Over-achieving is great...as I'll always appreciate that past-their-prime & poorly-coached group who went across the channel & brought football home in 96...but a faulty foundation on which to try to build a real player on the international stage.

So how much of a sporting disaster this will be will be decided by where your NT goes from here and whether it starts to build something real. Something that can change the perception of American football and maybe even earn you some respect from the football world...even if it only last for a generation.

You're starting to produce enough talent that's going to the right clubs in europe for their final polishing, to soon be able to get through a WC group while playing football that gets people excited about the sport & not just the low-grade nationalism. And that's what I think the US needs for this sport to really position itself to thrive in the post-American-Football era...well that or a World Cup, but let's walk before we try to run on that one lol


----------



## kingsboy11

Missing a World Cup can be used as a jumping off point to step back and look at all levels top to bottom. But what's concerning is that after the disastrous TnT game, those at the top said "we don't need to do that, we were inches away, unlucky" etc. If we had a competent federation I'd feel much more comfortable moving forward. I'm very excited about our prospects, but if we don't have the right people in charge of coaching and Technical Director, it won't mean much. 

Talking about the game, it certainly wasn't pretty, but there was a lot that I liked from some of the players. Players that impressed me tonight were Weah, Sargent, Parks, McKennie, Robinson and Rubin (first half). That being said, Bolivia looked really bad. It'll be interesting to see how many of these guys will do against the Irish and French in a couple weeks.


----------



## cgf

Yeah, there's no excuse for you to ever be a matter of luck away from qualifying in that confederation. If you n Mexico ever joined CONMEBOL; then fine, that's a thing that could happen & be a legitimate explanation, but not in Concacaf...spare me the "bad refs & tough away games...and bags of piss!" spiel.

Anyone who responded to this failure with excuses & not self-reflection needs to be fired.


----------



## sabremike

cgf said:


> Yeah, there's no excuse for you to ever be a matter of luck away from qualifying in that confederation. If you n Mexico ever joined CONMEBOL; then fine, that's a thing that could happen & be a legitimate explanation, but not in Concacaf...spare me the "bad refs & tough away games...and bags of piss!" spiel.
> 
> Anyone who responded to this failure with excuses & not self-reflection needs to be fired.



That is the worst part about the loss to Trinidad: the game was against a bad team at a high school level stadium with barely a few hundred fans in attendance. It was pretty much the easiest road matchup possible and they still blew it. Also keep in mind in 2013 Mexico was in the exact same position we ended up in (on the virge of elimination) but unlike el tri we came through, beat Panama and saved their asses. Point being that CONCACAF qualifying isn't quite the cakewalk some make it out to be.


----------



## kingsboy11

Out: Christian Pulisic, Walker Zimmerman, Alejandro Guido, Alex Bono, Ethan Horvath, Lyndeb Gooch, Matthew Olosunde

In: Zach Steffen, William Yarbrough, Shaq Moore, Tim Parker, Deandre Yedlin, Tyler Adams, Luca De La Torre, Kenny Saief, Wil Trapp, Booby Wood


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

sabremike said:


> That is the worst part about the loss to Trinidad: the game was against a bad team at a high school level stadium with barely a few hundred fans in attendance. It was pretty much the easiest road matchup possible and they still blew it. Also keep in mind in 2013 Mexico was in the exact same position we ended up in (on the virge of elimination) but unlike el tri we came through, beat Panama and saved their asses. Point being that CONCACAF qualifying isn't quite the cakewalk some make it out to be.




It's not a cakewalk if you approach it like a cakewalk, it's a cakewalk for any good team that approaches it with professionalism.


----------



## cgf

sabremike said:


> That is the worst part about the loss to Trinidad: the game was against a bad team at a high school level stadium with barely a few hundred fans in attendance. It was pretty much the easiest road matchup possible and they still blew it. Also keep in mind in 2013 Mexico was in the exact same position we ended up in (on the virge of elimination) but unlike el tri we came through, beat Panama and saved their asses. Point being that CONCACAF qualifying isn't quite the cakewalk some make it out to be.




It was a failure to have even let it get to the point where it all came down to that match, even if that match should have been a cakewalk, just like it should've been perceived as an embarrassing failure for Mexico to have gotten to that point in the previous cycle. I could maybe forgive it if you were blooding a ton of young talent that had learned throughout the cycle, like the mexican fans could sorta (although not really) try to argue, but I don't need to tell you guys that that was far from the case for y'all. 

I've watched you guys far too often, living in the US and trying to encourage my american friends to get into the sport, to viewing your qualifying cycle being anything other than a cakewalk in any circumstances. That some of you buy into this "well, if we can just draw on the road against these minnows, we'll be alright" is the problem. Yes, mathematically it's not a big deal for qualification to the WC, but it's still not an outcome anyone should find acceptable. Football doesn't reward mediocrity like North American sports do, just being good enough isn't good enough, you must always be aiming for excellence in competitive matches. When it's 1 match out of 10 where you slip up, then ok, shrug it off, but do so without losing that focus on excellence and without accepting complacency. 

But for people to regularly peddle this notion that aiming to fail in half your matches is acceptable just because it's unrealistic for you to win all of your away matches with your current talent level, the way USMNT people & US commentators/analysts so often seem to do, is a big part of why your NT has basically already hit its absolute peak possible result at a WC. Everyone is so content to just get to the dance and try to be one of the underdogs who gets out of your group. To ever get further than you have already, there has to be an entirely different set of expectations and a new plan for the way the collective will operate in future cycles, especially with the improved talent pool.


----------



## John Price

The US has a lot of good talent with potential. Guys like Weah and Sargent are the future of the team, along with Puli. Be exciting to see them along with other young talent like Andrew Carleton in the next few months. The US may not play in the WC this year but they have a very bright future. Hopefully the new coach can utilize that.


----------



## sabremike

It's a good thing they called up two of our key players (Adams and Parker) for these crucial and super important friendlies. It's not like they are going to miss both league and cup matches, and it's not like we lost the league match because we were shorthanded and that it will come back to haunt us when we finish 4th in the East and lose to Columbus in the play in game or anything. But seriously: f*** you US Soccer.


----------



## HajdukSplit

US looked pretty poor against Ireland, its a young/inexperienced squad I know but if you can't keep possession against a team like Ireland


----------



## ecemleafs

HajdukSplit said:


> US looked pretty poor against Ireland, its a young/inexperienced squad I know but if you can't keep possession against a team like Ireland



didnt look like the midfield had an idea how to work together. so often a player would get the ball and there would be no easy pass to make because no other midfielder was close to the ball and showed for it. its probably the thing that drives me nuts the most as a USA fan.


----------



## kingsboy11

There were some flashes of what this team could be. That Ireland team was significantly better than that Bolivia team. I'd be more concerned if we played like that against Bolivia. That being said we're going to get wrecked by France next week. I really wanted to see more of Parks and he didn't even make the bench yesterday.


----------



## N o o d l e s

sabremike said:


> It's a good thing they called up two of our key players (Adams and Parker) for these crucial and super important friendlies. It's not like they are going to miss both league and cup matches, and it's not like we lost the league match because we were shorthanded and that it will come back to haunt us when we finish 4th in the East and lose to Columbus in the play in game or anything. But seriously: **** you US Soccer.




Those players getting international experience is way more important than anything MLS related


----------



## John Price

Own Goal: The Inside Story of How the USMNT Missed the 2018 World Cup

ICYMI


----------



## SJSharks72

Earnie Stewart in as US GM. Still don’t entirely know what the position does but that’s okay. Now just get a good manager and we will see what happens.


----------



## N o o d l e s

G F O P said:


> Own Goal: The Inside Story of How the USMNT Missed the 2018 World Cup
> 
> ICYMI




The thing I don’t get is why Klinsmann basically refused to play Pulisic with his Bundesliga connections. That seems like exactly the kind of player he would love, especially after reading that article. I remember that was one of my biggest gripes with Klinsmann, especially during the Copa America.

Also: f*** Timmy Chandler


----------



## cgf

G F O P said:


> Own Goal: The Inside Story of How the USMNT Missed the 2018 World Cup
> 
> ICYMI




So I finally started reading this, but could only make it half way through. The author just seems to be in denial about the lack of quality in the US talent pool prior to the current youths. And way too happy to blame as much on Klinsmann as he can while refusing to accept what a colossal failure it is for the US to ever even come close to failing to qualify from concacaf.

Klinsi failed miserably because he isn't much of a coach, but the depth of the USMNT's failure is far deeper than the author tries to make it seem, and a lot more has to change than this article is implying for the US to ever be any more than what they have been...a middling team that can bunker their way into the knockouts with some luck and maybe even steal a game.

In fact, some of those quotes in that article reveal much deeper problems with the mindset of some of the bad players who have played for the USMNT. Goodson's quotes in particular are absolutely damning of how entitled & clueless some of them could be. Hopefully, the people in charge of US soccer have slightly higher standards with this next generation than the mediocrity that US soccer has traditionally embraced.


----------



## kingsboy11

I think its patently obvious that the players shoulder a large majority of the blame. But I think the authors was trying to show more the behind the scenes especially when it came the Klinnsman drama between him and Gulati. I feel like there's so much more to this story than what you can write in 3,000 word article.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

cgf said:


> So I finally started reading this, but could only make it half way through. The author just seems to be in denial about the lack of quality in the US talent pool prior to the current youths. And way too happy to blame as much on Klinsmann as he can while refusing to accept what a colossal failure it is for the US to ever even come close to failing to qualify from concacaf.
> 
> Klinsi failed miserably because he isn't much of a coach, but the depth of the USMNT's failure is far deeper than the author tries to make it seem, and a lot more has to change than this article is implying for the US to ever be any more than what they have been...a middling team that can bunker their way into the knockouts with some luck and maybe even steal a game.
> 
> In fact, some of those quotes in that article reveal much deeper problems with the mindset of some of the bad players who have played for the USMNT. Goodson's quotes in particular are absolutely damning of how entitled & clueless some of them could be. Hopefully, the people in charge of US soccer have slightly higher standards with this next generation than the mediocrity that US soccer has traditionally embraced.




It’s both. The players weren’t that good to begin with and didn’t play as expected, especially main guys like Altidore, Bradley and Johnson. But a coach has to be able to qualify the US for the World Cup out of CONCACAF. Losing out to teams like Panama and Honduras over 10 games is a complete failure. Any coach has to shoulder significant blame for that.


----------



## SJSharks72

Looking at the starting 11s of USA and France... lol. USA about to get destroyed.


----------



## cgf

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> It’s both. The players weren’t that good to begin with and didn’t play as expected, especially main guys like Altidore, Bradley and Johnson. But a coach has to be able to qualify the US for the World Cup out of CONCACAF. Losing out to teams like Panama and Honduras over 10 games is a complete failure. Any coach has to shoulder significant blame for that.




Oh Klinsi failed horribly because he's a bad coach. But that doesn't mean he was wrong to identify the lack of ambition in the USMNT & many of the happy-to-be-MLSers that needed to be culled from the team. Future USMNT coaches will be much richer for having Puli, McKenzie, Wright, Adams, etc. going to Europe to develop. And in the long run, so will the MLS, a NT that can play attractive football and maybe even someday outplay a big team in a knockout match, will do a lot more to drive talent & money into soccer than having those guys stagnate locally.*

And I don't think that happens without creating that divide between the guys trying to become the best they can be, and the guys who were content to make some money from football while not having to leave home. It was similar to the problem Russia has with their top talents earning so much in Russia that guys like Dzagoev spend their whole career in moscow instead of moving to bigger challenge where he can continue to grow. So even though Klinsi handled it terribly and failed miserably as a coach, that divide that the author derides him for is his greatest success because of the impacts we have seen with this next generation...like he did for us in 2006.


*Plus with them getting into the South & Central american young talent game, they will both be bolstering the MLS for guys who haven't yet gotten good moves to Europe, while also weakening some of their competition if they & Mexico do ever join conmebol.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I hope France doesn't embarrass them too badly tonite


----------



## SJSharks72

spintheblackcircle said:


> I hope France doesn't embarrass them too badly tonite



They will. Don’t worry. Just look for positives and you might find them. Might not too but hopefully you will!


----------



## Jersey Fresh

This is peewee stuff from the US 

Just so bad.


----------



## SJSharks72

Jersey Fresh said:


> This is peewee stuff from the US
> 
> Just so bad.



It’s not that bad. This is a team that missed the World Cup against a favorite to win. US is playing a young lineup while France is playing close to full strength. US is defending well. They just need to have a little bit better quality in their balls out and I’d be happy.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Have they had possession for more than 5 minutes?


----------



## SJSharks72

spintheblackcircle said:


> Have they had possession for more than 5 minutes?



In a row? Probably not. In the whole game so far? Also probably not.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I think Robinson has been solid


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Can you trust Lloris anymore?


----------



## ecemleafs

Nice save hugo


----------



## ecemleafs

It just amazes me how often an American player will stand still when a teammate has the ball and not look to move into a passing lane or show for the ball.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Almost Wood. (phrasing)


----------



## ecemleafs

Someone needs to tell Bobby wood about the offside rule.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

they leaking.


----------



## kingsboy11

I thought the over/under for French goals was 4. I would've been content if they lost because this is important for these players to get this kind of playing time against a world cup favorite. I think the only player I thought played really bad was Wood. I thought the midfield trio of Trapp, McKinnie and Adams held their own going up against Pogba, Kante and Matuidi. Parker was my MOTM, but the rest of the CBs played really well too. Moore and Robinson had their work cut out for them against the French wingers. This is a good learning experience with this group most likely going to be our core group of players going forward.


----------



## cgf

The kids defended well today, but your next coach really needs to have a plan for them of what to do with the ball. There was very little coordination in possession and that is the big hurdle to this team taking that next step. Of course, a match against a powerhouse is always going to leave the US on the back foot, but they need to be better in those times where they can latch onto the ball.

Still a lot of good work from many of the kids, and there's clearly more talent to work with than in previous generations...even without Pulisic on pitch.


----------



## SJSharks72

cgf said:


> The kids defended well today, but your next coach really needs to have a plan for them of what to do with the ball. There was very little coordination in possession and that is the big hurdle to this team taking that next step. Of course, a match against a powerhouse is always going to leave the US on the back foot, but they need to be better in those times where they can latch onto the ball.
> 
> Still a lot of good work from many of the kids, and there's clearly more talent to work with than in previous generations...even without Pulisic on pitch.



I’m really interested to see what the 11 of the future is. It seems that we have so many options in midfield and CB.


----------



## Vamos Rafa

So Landon has lost his former peers and fans because of his sponsored support for El Tri.


----------



## TheMoreYouKnow

Vamos Rafa said:


> So Landon has lost his former peers and fans because of his sponsored support for El Tri.




I think it'd be fine for him to do it out of personal preference, but the fact he seems to monetize it (I just saw the Wells Fargo commercial) is likely to rub some people the wrong way.


----------



## Hadoop

I'm biased as I am Canadian, but I don't mind Donovan's comments or the monetization aspects too much. At the end of the day every team CONCACAF is an underdog of sorts at the world cup


----------



## Albatros

I'm fine with Donovan supporting Mexico even if it's for money, but that in mind his disparaging comments to critics weren't that cool.


----------



## cgf

I think this would be a bigger problem if Donovan were a european or south american. But he's just selling out to make an honest buck, which is as 'Murican as it gets


----------



## KevFu

Yeah, we should be rooting for Mexico and Costa Rica and Panama, because the stronger they are, the more our games against them are worth. The difference is that I was rooting for those guys from my couch, not wearing Mexico gear and holding a custom made scarf on social media.


Also, with regard to the US missing the World Cup and reasons for that. One thing that's often totally overlooked is MLS. The "lack of competition" in MLS compared to other leagues is viewed as a reason why American players don't develop... and while I think playing in Europe or Mexico would help USMNT teams develop more because the competition is better, there's a second lane on that two-way street that no one talks about:

MLS has been outstanding for the development of players in OTHER CONCACAF nations besides the US, especially Costa Rica and Panama. 

There were 22 players from MLS in the 2014 World Cup. And in 2018, without USA, there are 19, most on Panama and Costa Rica.


----------



## missingmika

Vamos Rafa said:


> So Landon has lost his former peers and fans because of his sponsored support for El Tri.




The guy has had Mexican pee thrown at him. If he's cool with selling out, he's earned that right.


----------



## kingsboy11

Landon can root and cheer for whomever he wants and take whatever sponsor he wants. It is a bit curious to see him cheer for them as he has been a part of many of the bigger clashes against El Tri in the past several years and knows the bad blood between the two teams. Also his comments toward Bocanegra was really uncalled for. I think that's the only thing I really disliked about this whole exchange. I do think he's genuine in that he's trying to help bridge the current political divide between the two countries, but maybe he could've done it a different way. 

That being said, there's probably nothing in this world that could ever make me cheer for El Tri or of the other Concacaf countries. I do like how other nations realize that teams like Costa Rica and El Tri are actually really good and hope that the other confederations give the region more respect, but that doesn't mean I would ever cheer for them. 

Apart from the obvious that the USMNT aren't in the World Cup, the one thing that really pisses me off about watching the World Cup is all the pathetic ads trying to get U.S. fans to cheer for other countries. It just makes me more angry.


----------



## Basement Cat

Well done last night Matt Miazga and Tyler Adams. #MetroMakesTheWorldTakes


----------



## SJSharks72

Basement Cat said:


> Well done last night Matt Miazga and Tyler Adams. #MetroMakesTheWorldTakes



Miazga and Adams were both on the outside most of the game. The players that stood out were Green and Robinson.


----------



## John Price

FC Dallas coach Oscar Pareja is in the running for the USMNT job.


----------



## kingsboy11

I can very much get behind Pareja as head coach. I've been hoping that he would be involved in the process


----------



## SJSharks72

kingsboy11 said:


> I can very much get behind Pareja as head coach. I've been hoping that he would be involved in the process



Yeah I want Berhalter or Pareja.


----------



## kingsboy11

roster for the games against Colombia and Peru. Bradley getting called back in. Rumors say that Jozy was going to get called in, but he's dealing with an injury with TFC


----------



## Basement Cat

I'm far from a Bradley hater like 99% of the USMNT fan base, but that Falcao goal never happens if Adams is starting.

Looking forward to seeing a CM trio of Adams and Mckennie with Pulisic at CAM.


----------



## SJSharks72

Amon is trash. No where near ready.


----------



## Pavel Buchnevich

SJSharks39 said:


> Amon is trash. No where near ready.




You can be not ready to play for the National Team without being trash. Amon is a very talented player.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

That was a nice set piece. Whoever drew that up gets a cookie.


----------



## SJSharks72

Pavel Buchnevich said:


> You can be not ready to play for the National Team without being trash. Amon is a very talented player.



I know you can. Amon has been trash this game. Absolutely awful. He was playing like he’s as skilled as Neymar and not tracking back at all but he’s no more skilled than say Harry Shipp but Shipp actually tracks back.


----------



## kingsboy11

It was his first appearance for the national team. I saw flashes of what he can bring to this team, but like everyone else on this team has a ways to go. Sargent had a few misplayed passes to start the game, but other than that he looks the part.


----------



## SJSharks72

kingsboy11 said:


> It was his first appearance for the national team. I saw flashes of what he can bring to this team, but like everyone else on this team has a ways to go. Sargent had a few misplayed passes to start the game, but other than that he looks the part.



I get that he won’t do much offensively. That’s not what this is about. It’s his effort was literally not there.


----------



## kingsboy11

SJSharks39 said:


> I get that he won’t do much offensively. That’s not what this is about. It’s his effort was literally not there.




I get that, but I'm not passing judgement 60+ minutes into his national team career


----------



## SJSharks72

kingsboy11 said:


> I get that, but I'm not passing judgement 60+ minutes into his national team career



I definitely am. Not on his future place with the national team, but what he needs to work on. If his work ethic doesn’t improve, he has no place with this team.


----------



## Basement Cat

Would really appreciate it if Long and Adams were dropped from the squad today. I know that’s not happening so please just don’t get hurt in these friendlies :/


----------



## kingsboy11

Guess Red Bull fans can breathe easy because Saracan for some reason isn't starting Adams today. I really really want to see him play alongside McKennie and Pulisic and especially against good teams like England and Italy.


----------



## John Price

A salute to DC united man Wayne Rooney


----------



## hatterson

*Massive* dive by Callum Wilson there. Should 100% have been booked for the dive.


----------



## Basement Cat

Thank you, Dave! Just send Tyler and Aaron back home honestly.


----------



## SJSharks72

hatterson said:


> *Massive* dive by Callum Wilson there. Should 100% have been booked for the dive.



I don’t think so. Guzan did get him a little bit and at such a high speed even the slightest touch can throw you off. Also Weah has not impressed me at all since his debut. Miazga has been good. Pulisic has been good. Otherwise the team has been bad.


----------



## Fistfullofbeer

We don't even look like a team. More like a group of 10 chickens with their heads cut off.


----------



## hatterson

SJSharks39 said:


> I don’t think so. Guzan did get him a little bit and at such a high speed even the slightest touch can throw you off. Also Weah has not impressed me at all since his debut. Miazga has been good. Pulisic has been good. Otherwise the team has been bad.




He was chucking himself to the ground well before Guzan touched him.

He thought Guzan wasn't going to pull back so he went down. Guzan did well and pulled back from it, but Wilson was already falling.


----------



## kingsboy11

Amazed that they aren't losing by more. Trapp is worthless and they need to get Adams in there. I would take out Green and put it Lleget and move Pulisic to the 10 spot.


----------



## SJSharks72

kingsboy11 said:


> Amazed that they aren't losing by more. Trapp is worthless and they need to get Adams in there. I would take out Green and put it Lleget and move Pulisic to the 10 spot.



Trapp is a good player when his team is in possession. He would be a perfect player against CONCACAF teams that aren't Mexico.


----------



## Basement Cat

Why the f*** did Adams and Long start this game and are still in it at the 72nd minute?


----------



## East Coast Bias

The state of this program make me yearn for the days of Jurgen.

There's seeing what you have, and then there's whatever the f*** they're doing now.


----------



## HajdukSplit

Grant Wahl reports that Julen Lopetegui approached the USSF about the job but they turned him down, whether or not you think he would be a good manager for the USNT it seems crazy they have basically interviewed only one person during this whole process


----------



## John Price

HajdukSplit said:


> Grant Wahl reports that Julen Lopetegui approached the USSF about the job but they turned him down, whether or not you think he would be a good manager for the USNT it seems crazy they have basically interviewed only one person during this whole process




Also the rumor was that they didn't even put out any feelers towards Belhalter. I mean what's with this extreme procrastination here. Just hire someone


----------



## John Price

USA finally has a manager Michael Arace | It wasn't pretty, but US Soccer to get right coach in Crew's Gregg Berhalter


----------

