# The 2017 NFL draft prospects thread



## Gene Parmesan

College Football is right around the corner. Its time!


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## Chairman Mallard

Rolls Royce probably goes pro after this season. Seems like a guy who could succeed at the next level.


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## Avs_19

I don't like seeing Fournette injured already. At least it's only a sprain.


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## Gene Parmesan

Dalvin Cook and Fournette get all the ink but Elijah Hood from UNC is a ****ing freak. I think McCaffery might not be a consistent bellcow back in the NFL but he can pretty much do everything well. He has 800/800/400 15 plus td potential.


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## Gene Parmesan

I'm going old school with my running back comps.

Dalvin Cook-Tony Dorsett. Similar build and speed and burst and instant acceleration. 

Leonard Fournette-Bo Jackson. Size+speed and nimble feet. A bit stiff hipped but hits the hole hard and runs through defenders and can also dance.

Christian McCaffery-Roger Craig. Extremely versatile. Can run inside/outside with great hands and electric with the ball. 

Elijah Hood-Ricky Watters. Big and explosive. Good receiver and plays with an attitude.

Nick Chubb-Emmitt Smith. Not big or overly fast but extremely smart, tough and slippery. 

Samije Perine-Barry Foster. Low center of gravity. Quickness, burst and power.


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## Tony Romo

If romo gets hurt one Myles Garrett please


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## Gene Parmesan

Myles Garrett needs to add strength.


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## Tony Romo

He;s not 2017, but Gene whats your thoughts on Kizer?


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## Gene Parmesan

Meh. He's ok. Has a big arm and size but he doesn't wow me.


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## Roboturner913

Players I will be watching AKA my favorite players

Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU
Pat Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech
Dawuane Smoot, DL, Illinois
TreDavious White, CB, LSU
Raekwon McMillian, LB, Ohio St
Nick Chubb, RB, Georgia
Derwin James, DB, Florida St
Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn St
Zach Cunningham, LB, Vanderbilt
James McFarland, DE, TCU


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## Gene Parmesan

Derwin James is legit. I really like Daeshon Hall at Texas A&M. Very long and athletic defensive end. In that Carlos Dunlap/Justin Tuck vein.


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## Tony Romo

Isn't Barkley/James 2018 Prospects? (like that draft more than this one tbh)


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## Gene Parmesan

It'll be an outstanding draft for edge rushers/players. 

Devonte Fields is the best/most advanced right now. Understands hand usage and length and plays with surprising power for 6'4" 250. Myles Garrett has the "look" but he's the fourth best pass rusher in his conference. 

Tim Williams
Derek Barnett
Charles Harris

are easily better.


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## sjsharks92

Roboturner913 said:


> Players I will be watching AKA my favorite players
> 
> Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU
> Pat Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech
> Dawuane Smoot, DL, Illinois
> TreDavious White, CB, LSU
> Raekwon McMillian, LB, Ohio St
> Nick Chubb, RB, Georgia
> Derwin James, DB, Florida St
> Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn St
> Zach Cunningham, LB, Vanderbilt
> James McFarland, DE, TCU




You should try staying up to watch some Pac-12 games.


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## sjsharks92

Gene Parmesan said:


> Dalvin Cook and Fournette get all the ink but Elijah Hood from UNC is a ****ing freak. *I think McCaffery might not be a consistent bellcow back in the NFL *but he can pretty much do everything well. He has 800/800/400 15 plus td potential.




What makes you think he isn't consistent enough? His only real red flag at the moment is he may not be a goal line/4th and short kind of back. His durability definitely isn't in question based on his touches and his ball security is elite.


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## sjsharks92

I just can't wait for week 1 in general. So many fantastic matchups.


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## Blackhawkswincup

How is this years QB class shaping up?

Bears will need to draft a QB of future eventually as Cutler is not getting any younger


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## Gene Parmesan

sjsharks92 said:


> What makes you think he isn't consistent enough? His only real red flag at the moment is he may not be a goal line/4th and short kind of back. His durability definitely isn't in question based on his touches and his ball security is elite.




Like not a 20-25 carry back like AP or DeMarco. Its a waste of his skillset imo. He's going to be a match up nightmare for a defense.


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## sjsharks92

Blackhawkswincup said:


> How is this years QB class shaping up?
> 
> Bears will need to draft a QB of future eventually as Cutler is not getting any younger




Get in line. Praying the 49ers can get Deshaun Watson. 

Some other notable QBs to watch for draft purposes though would be:

Davis Webb, Cal
Luke Falk, Washington State
Brad Kaaya, Miami
Gunner Kiel, Cincinnati
Chad Kelly, Ole Miss

After Watson though I don't think this figures to be a very strong QB class.


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## sjsharks92

Gene Parmesan said:


> Like not a 20-25 carry back like AP or DeMarco. Its a waste of his skillset imo. He's going to be a match up nightmare for a defense.




I see what you're saying. His receiving ability is off the charts. Definitely will play a variety of roles for whatever team gets him.


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## Gene Parmesan

Blackhawkswincup said:


> How is this years QB class shaping up?
> 
> Bears will need to draft a QB of future eventually as Cutler is not getting any younger




You say this every year. DeShaun Watson, Mason Rudolph and Pat Mahomes are the top 3. DeShaun will be the first pick. He's an elite qb prospect.


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## Gene Parmesan

sjsharks92 said:


> Get in line. Praying the 49ers can get Deshaun Watson.
> 
> Some other notable QBs to watch for draft purposes though would be:
> 
> Davis Webb, Cal
> Luke Falk, Washington State
> Brad Kaaya, Miami
> Gunner Kiel, Cincinnati
> Chad Kelly, Ole Miss
> 
> After Watson though I don't think this figures to be a very strong QB class.




Davis Webb could be the Carson Wentz of this year. A 3rd/4th rounder who shoots up boards due to his toolset.


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## Blackhawkswincup

Gene Parmesan said:


> You say this every year. DeShaun Watson, Mason Rudolph and Pat Mahomes are the top 3. DeShaun will be the first pick. He's an elite qb prospect.




Hey its not my fault the Bears keep investing late round picks in QB's they wont play or lose by trying to put them on PS

This years draft the Bears should have grabbed a QB in early/mid round but didn't


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## Tony Romo

Gunnar Kiel got benched by cinci btw


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## Gene Parmesan

The guy who replaced him can sling it.


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## Gene Parmesan

Blackhawkswincup said:


> Hey its not my fault the Bears keep investing late round picks in QB's they wont play or lose by trying to put them on PS
> 
> This years draft the Bears should have grabbed a QB in early/mid round but didn't




If you aren't drafting one in the 1st or 2nd, don't draft one. Wasted pick/roster spot. The "developmental" QB is a myth.


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## InjuredChoker

any scouting reports on 2017 draft re-entry prospect, joey bosa?


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## Blackhawkswincup

Gene Parmesan said:


> If you aren't drafting one in the 1st or 2nd, don't draft one. Wasted pick/roster spot. The "developmental" QB is a myth.




Dak Prescott is looking legit and very promising. Bears passed on draft him in 4th round when they had chance

Also its hard to take that stance seriously when quality QB's have bene found in 3rd round in a recent draft

Wilson (3rd) , Foles (3rd) and Cousins (4th) were all "Developmental QB's" teams took chance on and had success with recently


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## InjuredChoker

wilson wasn't really developmental QB. was ready from day 1.

everyone just misevaluated him badly.


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## Gene Parmesan

Blackhawkswincup said:


> Dak Prescott is looking legit and very promising. Bears passed on draft him in 4th round when they had chance
> 
> Also its hard to take that stance seriously when quality QB's have bene found in 3rd round in a recent draft
> 
> Wilson (3rd) , Foles (3rd) and Cousins (4th) were all "Developmental QB's" teams took chance on and had success with recently




Russell Wilson is the only legit one you listed and was already developed when drafted. Dak is having a good preseason but so did Colt Brennan. Cousins had one good year. He has to prove it wasn't a fluke. Once again out of your depth. Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Tony Romo are outliers.


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## Blackhawkswincup

Well Cousins is perfect example of a developmental QB

Bears also passed on Connor Cook who I believe has NFL #1 potential


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## LegionOfDoom91

Tony Romo said:


> Isn't Barkley/James 2018 Prospects? (like that draft more than this one tbh)




Yes. The hope for Barkley is that he's in a better environment this upcoming year. The scheme, QB, RB depth, & O-Line weren't very good last year leading him to be used like a rented mule. He wasn't as fresh as you would have liked him last year because of this. He actually got hurt last year & missed a few games with a leg injury. By all accounts it lingered with him throughout the year on.

The knock on him is that he doesn't have breakaway speed (pass protection as well but that's a pretty common knock for backs of his age, he showed progression there throughout the year) but I want to see if that's more of a situation than his talents. As he does test well off the field but understandably that doesn't always translate on the field. So we shall see.


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## Tony Romo

I'm just excited come 2018 I can talk about Texas prospects


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## sjsharks92

Tony Romo said:


> Gunnar Kiel got benched by cinci btw




Did he really? I hadn't heard that yet. What a bizarre and unfortunate career he has had.


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## sjsharks92

Blackhawkswincup said:


> Dak Prescott is looking legit and very promising. Bears passed on draft him in 4th round when they had chance
> 
> Also its hard to take that stance seriously when quality QB's have bene found in 3rd round in a recent draft
> 
> Wilson (3rd) , Foles (3rd) and Cousins (4th) were all "Developmental QB's" teams took chance on and had success with recently




One nice start from Dak against 3rd and 4th stringers doesn't make him a promising player.


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## Gene Parmesan

Blackhawkswincup said:


> Well Cousins is perfect example of a developmental QB
> 
> Bears also passed on Connor Cook who I believe has NFL #1 potential




No he isn't. You just love boring white QB's.


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## sjsharks92

Gene Parmesan said:


> No he isn't. You just love boring white QB's.


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## sjsharks92

Gene Parmesan said:


> Davis Webb could be the Carson Wentz of this year. A 3rd/4th rounder who shoots up boards due to his toolset.




I agree. Especially in that Cal offense where he'll be able to showcase it frequently.


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## rangerssharks414

Gene Parmesan said:


> If you aren't drafting one in the 1st or 2nd, don't draft one. Wasted pick/roster spot. The "developmental" QB is a myth.




I agree 100%. Most starting QBs in the NFL are 1st or 2nd rounders.


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## Tony Romo

Gene Parmesan said:


> No he isn't. You just love boring white QB's.



 gene you're the greatest but no outside of Watson QBs suck this year. Next year is better.


RBs are getting a huge influx of talent over the the last couple years and next 2.

Todd Gurley
David Johnson
Elliot
Fournette
Cook
Chubb
Mccaffrey
Perine
Barkley

and more


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## Gene Parmesan

Tony Romo said:


> gene you're the greatest but no outside of Watson QBs suck this year. Next year is better.
> 
> 
> RBs are getting a huge influx of talent over the the last couple years and next 2.
> 
> Todd Gurley
> David Johnson
> Elliot
> Fournette
> Cook
> Chubb
> Mccaffrey
> Perine
> Barkley
> 
> and more




I disagree.

Watson is easily #1 but I think Mason Rudolph could make it in round 1. Pat Mahomes has 1st round arm talent but scheme questions will drop his stock. QB will never be deep.


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## Halladay

We havent seen Chubb since his injury, but before it I think he would have been better than Gurley. We will see though.


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## Gene Parmesan

Chubb strikes me as a good college back but will not enjoy the same success in the NFL. He's a smart player so he'll have a career but his knee injury was serious and will red flag him.


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## Street Hawk

sjsharks92 said:


> Did he really? I hadn't heard that yet. What a bizarre and unfortunate career he has had.




Always interesting to follow what happens to the elite high s hook recruits for each year.

Max Browne from USC was at the very top and now as a RS junior he will start, but he just barely beat out a RD freshman for the job. His earlier shot to be starter was battling Kessler who had two years on him in the program. 

Ricky Town was the hot commodity last year before he transferred to Arkansas. He lost the QB competition this summer. He may have to sit two years before he gets a shot.

Tanner Magnum of BYU lost to incumbent senior Hill and will backup. He was a top recruit in the same year as J.Winston. he did get to start almost the entire season last year after Hill broke his foot in the opener.

Not every kid is a Josh Rosen or Chad browning who start as true freshmen for UCLA and UW respectively.

All about timing, competition and your play.

Young recruits need to be very selective of which school they commit to. Need to find the right situation that gives you a shot of comeeting for the starter job, which also fits your style of offense.


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## Gene Parmesan

Jacob Eason is starting for UGA, Deondre Francois is starting for FSU as well.


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## sjsharks92

Street Hawk said:


> Always interesting to follow what happens to the elite high s hook recruits for each year.
> 
> Max Browne from USC was at the very top and now as a RS junior he will start, but he just barely beat out a RD freshman for the job. His earlier shot to be starter was battling Kessler who had two years on him in the program.
> 
> Ricky Town was the hot commodity last year before he transferred to Arkansas. He lost the QB competition this summer. He may have to sit two years before he gets a shot.
> 
> Tanner Magnum of BYU lost to incumbent senior Hill and will backup. He was a top recruit in the same year as J.Winston. he did get to start almost the entire season last year after Hill broke his foot in the opener.
> 
> Not every kid is a Josh Rosen or Chad browning who start as true freshmen for UCLA and UW respectively.
> 
> All about timing, competition and your play.
> 
> Young recruits need to be very selective of which school they commit to. Need to find the right situation that gives you a shot of comeeting for the starter job, which also fits your style of offense.




Yea I'm well aware of all those things. I've always really enjoyed following the recruiting trail. Amazing to see some of these guys go from high school seniors to stars in the NFL. Or as you mentioned in the case of someone like a Kiel or Browne to flameout.


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## sjsharks92

Gene Parmesan said:


> Jacob Eason is starting for UGA, Deondre Francois is starting for FSU as well.




Have either of those been officially announced yet? I had read just the other day that Eason was only getting a small amount of first team reps.


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## Tony Romo

Francois has been announced. Eason hasn't been, but it's been rumoured for a very long time that he will be.


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## Gene Parmesan

Big weekend for draft eligibles.


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## Street Hawk

sjsharks92 said:


> Yea I'm well aware of all those things. I've always really enjoyed following the recruiting trail. Amazing to see some of these guys go from high school seniors to stars in the NFL. Or as you mentioned in the case of someone like a Kiel or Browne to flameout.




Kiel was interesting. Originally signed with LSU then switched to notre Dame. Lost the competition to golston. Then decided to tranfer, buy a week later golston, gets suspended. Who knows where he would be if he stayed at ND.

As for Browne, tough for a true freshman to win a starters job against a pair of RS sophomores in Wittek and Kessler. Rarely do coaches bench a guy with experience with a younger unproven QB, unless the starter wets the bed and the youngsters impresses in camp.

A program like USC, they always bring in a top 5 QB recruit every other year basically. Insured they have someone to step in if the experience Ted starter flames out.

Given the scarcity of top NFL QB, kind of disappointing to see these highly regarded high school recruits flame out in college. Not to mention all of these spread offenses impacting the readiness of QBs coming into the NFL.


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## Gene Parmesan

Nah NFL execs and coaches need to stop being dinosaurs. Spread concepts are used league wide. Playing in a "pro style" system doesn't magically make you a better prospect. It doesn't get you ready for the NFL either.


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## Blackhawkswincup

Boo!!!!!!!!

Chicago did so well they should be permanent home of draft ,, You suck NFL


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## Halladay

Kizer is going to be moving up, think Kaaya will also be drafted high.



Blackhawkswincup said:


> Boo!!!!!!!!
> 
> Chicago did so well they should be permanent home of draft ,, You suck NFL





Philadelphia is just as obsessed about football as Chicago is. It will be a hit there. It should be rotated imo.


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## Gene Parmesan

Kaaya lacks desirable physical traits. He's a decent prospect but lacks high end arm talent.


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## Tony Romo

I have it 

Watson
Kizer
Kelly
Kaaya

tbh


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## Roboturner913

Street Hawk said:


> Kiel was interesting. Originally signed with LSU then switched to notre Dame. Lost the competition to golston. Then decided to tranfer, buy a week later golston, gets suspended. Who knows where he would be if he stayed at ND.




Kiel was never a victim of circumstance, he just kinda sucks. Most overrated high school prospect I think I've ever seen in person. He made a career out of beating up on crappy teams. Every time his H.S. team faced a good defense he fell to pieces. Not a question of physical talent, he's got that, he just doesn't have the right competitive mentality to play QB.


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## Gene Parmesan

Myles Garrett's 1st step is nuts. Runs the arc and makes college LT's look slow. Just wanna see more power. Really like Marquis Haynes from Ole Miss as a 3-4 OLB.


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## Gene Parmesan

Kizer and Watson have great feet in the pocket. Never flat footed. Kizer has a wide base but doesn't overstride. Watson is narrower but both generate torque to throw into tight windows. Impressive young QB's.


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## MurrayBannerman

Gene Parmesan said:


> Kizer and Watson have great feet in the pocket. Never flat footed. Kizer has a wide base but doesn't overstride. Watson is narrower but both generate torque to throw into tight windows. Impressive young QB's.




At least I have DeShone to enjoy this season.


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## Gene Parmesan

MurrayBannerman said:


> At least I have DeShone to enjoy this season.




He's a good one. Checks every box.


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## Gene Parmesan

Sneaky QB match up this weekend..

Mason Rudolph (OK state) vs Cooper Rush (Central Michigan)

Both guys have NFL potential.


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## MurrayBannerman

Gene Parmesan said:


> He's a good one. Checks every box.




I'd be cool with an early Cutler injury leading to DeShone in Chicago.


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## Gene Parmesan

Royce Freeman is so good. Runs square, great feet, explosive power and surprisingly shifty. Looks like an ex-Duck Jonathan Stewart.


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## Gene Parmesan

This senior QB class is not good. Kizer and Watson are clearly the top 2 as underclassmen.


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## Gene Parmesan

Seth Russell is not a viable NFL QB prospect but as an athlete he's super intriguing. Has Terrell Pryor measurables.


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## Gene Parmesan

Myles Garrett is the #1 prospect in this draft. He has improved virtually all his weaknesses which I'm eating crow on. He's a 3 down player.


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## Tony Romo

Gene Parmesan said:


> Myles Garrett is the #1 prospect in this draft. He has improved virtually all his weaknesses which I'm eating crow on. He's a 3 down player.




Kinda makes me upset/Kinda makes me happy that Dak may play us out of the Garrett/Mcdowell area.


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## Tony Romo

Gene Parmesan said:


> Royce Freeman is so good. Runs square, great feet, explosive power and surprisingly shifty. Looks like an ex-Duck Jonathan Stewart.




He was one of the ones I was higher on in this draft. Especially with Christian/Fournette/Chubb/Cook probably going first two rounds. Think Carolina may scoop him in the 3rd-4th.


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## Blackhawkswincup

So ,, Bears are going to draft top 5 at very least it appears

What impact players are available? Guys who have true franchise altering potential?

Bears needs

QB of future, RB , WR , OL , TE , DT , DE , ILB , OLB , CB , FS , SS , K


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## Gene Parmesan

Tony Romo said:


> He was one of the ones I was higher on in this draft. Especially with Christian/Fournette/Chubb/Cook probably going first two rounds. Think Carolina may scoop him in the 3rd-4th.




The thing with McCaffery is that he doesn't have an NFL RB skillset as a ball carrier. He doesn't break arm tackles or get after contact yards as much as Cook, Fournette, Chubb and Freeman. I really think with his size (6'1" 205) and his hands and elite athleticism that his future is at WR. Specifically in the slot. He'll be too big for slot corners and too quick for safeties.


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## Gene Parmesan

Tony Romo said:


> Kinda makes me upset/Kinda makes me happy that Dak may play us out of the Garrett/Mcdowell area.




I don't think he will play them out of the top 10.


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## Gene Parmesan

Mike Williams is the best receiver prospect in this draft. 6'4" 220, hands catcher, long arms, fluid athlete, easy speed and jump ball ability. Its effortless with him


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## Gene Parmesan

Some under the radar prospects to chew on.

Forrest Lamp-WKU: Most likely a G at the next level but is a good athlete with balance, strength and punch. Held his own against LSU last year and Bama this year. Currently hurt.

Chad Hansen-Cal: A tough, speedy and fearless wr. Can line up outside or in the slot. Great hands and hand strength, plays with an attitude. Wins 50/50 balls.

James Washington-O.K. State: A true homerun hitter. Plus speed and acceleration and twitch athleticism. Thick frame at 6' 205, wins jump balls and works the middle of the field.


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## Bobby Orrtuzzo

Any Mizzou guys have series/any potential? Haven't followed as close lately.


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## MMC

A Sad Blues Fan said:


> Any Mizzou guys have series/any potential? Haven't followed as close lately.




Charles Harris


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## Gene Parmesan

Charles Harris is a top 15 pick.


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## Bobby Orrtuzzo

mymerlincat said:


> Charles Harris






Gene Parmesan said:


> Charles Harris is a top 15 pick.





Thank you both! will definitely keep an eye on him whenever I get a chance to watch


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## Gene Parmesan

Mason Rudolph has legit upside. I love his ability to throw with accuracy on vertical routes. He fixed his mechanics and now gets more juice on those tight window throws. He's right below Kizer and Watson right now. Very talented player.


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## McOilbleeder

So is Kizer the real deal or not? ....asking for a friend


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## Gene Parmesan

Yes. He's the real deal.


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## Tony Romo

Gene Parmesan said:


> Mason Rudolph has legit upside. I love his ability to throw with accuracy on vertical routes. He fixed his mechanics and now gets more juice on those tight window throws. He's right below Kizer and Watson right now. Very talented player.




Haven't fully looked into scouts/draftboards but I think you maybe the only one who has this opinion.


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## Gene Parmesan

Tony Romo said:


> Haven't fully looked into scouts/draftboards but I think you maybe the only one who has this opinion.




He's a better prospect than Kaaya and Kelly. Has better traits and makes more big boy throws.


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## Tony Romo

Reuben Foster to Dallas please


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## Gene Parmesan

I like Rueben but I question his instincts and ability to diagnose plays quickly. Zach Cunningham is who I like.


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## Tony Romo

Gene Parmesan said:


> I like Rueben but I question his instincts and ability to diagnose plays quickly. Zach Cunningham is who I like.




The only part of the Dallas defence that has talent and it isn't questionable for the next Couple of years is Byron Jones. Lee ticking time bomb on an injury, Jaylon Smith needs a leg. Our CB's LOL. Our defensive line is the same thing just awful talent mixed in with dumbasses. although Collins has some promise. I just want talent on this defence. I think Marlon Humphrey declares and would want him, but any CB is getting destroyed with our pass rush.

We won't be in McDowell/Garrett territory probably. 

So my hope at the moment is Foster/Allen hopefully.

Basically, Gene tell me what players to watch on defence because Dallas needs someone at every position.


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## Gene Parmesan

Well considering your team plays a lot of zone I'd watch Desmond King at Iowa. Excels in off coverage and a ball hawk. Get off your Alabama kick too. Your team had a **** draft in rounds 2 and 3.


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## Blackhawkswincup

Gene Parmesan said:


> You say this every year. DeShaun Watson, Mason Rudolph and Pat Mahomes are the top 3. DeShaun will be the first pick. He's an elite qb prospect.




I like Luke Falk 

Has all the tools to be an NFL #1 and would be guy I wouldn't mind seeing Bears select (Would probably be early 2nd rounder so the Bears could use top 3 pick this draft on other impact type player)


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## Gene Parmesan

Luke Falk is the definition of a system QB. He has some tools but hard to project since most of his passes are within 10 yards of the LOS.


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## Ermo20

Would you rather pick DeShone Kizer or Deshaun Watson?


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## Gene Parmesan

Right now..its a toss up. Kizer might lose his job again.


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## Street Hawk

Gene Parmesan said:


> Right now..its a toss up. Kizer might lose his job again.




3 losses on Kizer's resume this year against Texas, Michigan State, and now Duke. I mean, Duke? Other 2 are traditional quality programs.

Depending on how things shake down for him and ND the rest of the season, not sure if going pro would be the best thing for him. 

For QB needy teams, this isn't the best draft to get rid of your current guy. I think if your team has a poor season, and is outside the top 5 to get Watson, then I would take the BPA at the top of the 1st round and possibly move up from round 2 into late round 1 to grab a QB from the group that has been mentioned.

If we are talking the Bears, I'd keep Cutler around until you can see if this kid is capable of starting right away, or let him sit behind Cutler. Same in SF with Gabbert/Kaep whomever they opt to keep.


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## Gene Parmesan

Scouts don't care about the teams record. All they see in Kizer is his size, arm talent and mobility. Kizer and Watson are both pressing in games at times. It all depends on how the draft order shakes out and how teams see the QB prospects. Watson and Kizer are getting all the attention but unlike the past few years, the QB class has a lot of talent potentially.


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## Gene Parmesan

Vince Biegel is an outstanding player. Long, athletic and goes non-stop. He's going to be a problem for Michigan this weekend.


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## Roboturner913

I may be the only one, but I'm really starting to doubt on Fournette a little bit. Not entirely sure he's the transcendent talent he's been hyped to be at times. The more I see of him lately, the more he makes me think of somebody like Beanie Wells as opposed to somebody like AP. Also his lack of pass protection skill is really going to hurt him in terms of his playing time when he gets to the NFL. Don't take it to mean I'm super down on the guy, but to steal a term from the hockey board, I'm not seeing a "generational" talent at this point.

The guy I had #2 on my list was Pat Mahomes, and holy crap with that guy. I know they don't play much defense in that league, and I know Texas Tech doesn't get you to the forefront as far as national spotlight goes, but at some point it's going to become really hard to ignore him. He throws with anticipation, extreme accuracy all over the field and can extend the play like an Aaron Rodgers. What really sells me is his pocket sense, it's incredible for somebody his age with relative lack of experience.


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## Gene Parmesan

Its hard to evaluate Mahomes due to the scheme he plays in. I think he's talented but can he play within the structure of the offense? Is he a legit prospect or a supercharged Johnny Manziel? 

With Fournette, I don't think he's healthy. He looks a bit heavy. He hurt his ankle in August and hasn't healed. I don't see the burst he had last year. Pass protection can be learned if he's willing.


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## MurrayBannerman

Gene Parmesan said:


> Right now..its a toss up. Kizer might lose his job again.




If he loses his job, I'll come get Brian Kelly myself.


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## Gene Parmesan

Kizer didn't play well against Sparty or Duke. Trying to do too much, forcing throws.


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## MurrayBannerman

Gene Parmesan said:


> Kizer didn't play well against Sparty or Duke. Trying to do too much, forcing throws.




I wonder why...


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## Gene Parmesan

MurrayBannerman said:


> I wonder why...




Because he's a 21 year old QB. That's why.


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## MurrayBannerman

Gene Parmesan said:


> Because he's a 21 year old QB. That's why.




I was more making a jab at the defense.


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## Gene Parmesan

MurrayBannerman said:


> I was more making a jab at the defense.




Eh he's leaving plays on the field. Way too much hero ball.


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## MurrayBannerman

Gene Parmesan said:


> Eh he's leaving plays on the field. Way too much hero ball.




I think that's very fair, but there's enough blame to go around with this program.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Can't say I liked what I saw out of Watson. (Especially being the fan of a team that will be picking in the top 10). I like Kizer more as a fit for what Chip likes to do. Watson is struggling with his mechanics and ball placement. Mitch Trubisky and Mason Rudolph are two guys that will gain steam. Both have size, good mobility and arm talent.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Man NFL draft gurus really want Kaaya to be something. I still haven't seen anything special with him. He starts hot but never stays that way. Terrible 2nd half against FSU.


----------



## rangerssharks414

GP, what do you think about Corey Davis? He's probably behind Williams and JuJu, but is he next among WRs? I've always been a fan of his.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Top 50 pick. His draft status will depend on a few guys that might leave early and his workouts. Courtland Sutton and Isiah Ford I have ahead of him.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I wouldn't take any QB in the first round. If I were a team like Pittsburgh or the Giants or Chargers or Saints with older QB's, I would draft Chad Kelly in the 2nd round and learn. Sit for a few years and learn. Because he easily has the best arm in the draft, he makes the best throws of anyone. But he also makes the worst. I think he by far has the most upside, but is nowhere near the safest guy.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

DeShaun Watson
Wayne Gallman
Mike Williams 
Artavis Scott

will all declare for the NFL draft.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Christian McCaffery and Fournette and Dalvin Cook all declare.


----------



## rangerssharks414

spintheblackcircle said:


> I wouldn't take any QB in the first round. If I were a team like Pittsburgh or the Giants or Chargers or Saints with older QB's, I would draft Chad Kelly in the 2nd round and learn. Sit for a few years and learn. Because he easily has the best arm in the draft, he makes the best throws of anyone. But he also makes the worst. I think he by far has the most upside, but is nowhere near the safest guy.




Was this before or after his ACL tear?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Chad Kelly is going undrafted.


----------



## GKJ

spintheblackcircle said:


> I wouldn't take any QB in the first round. If I were a team like Pittsburgh or the Giants or Chargers or Saints with older QB's, I would draft Chad Kelly in the 2nd round and learn. Sit for a few years and learn. Because he easily has the best arm in the draft, he makes the best throws of anyone. But he also makes the worst. I think he by far has the most upside, but is nowhere near the safest guy.




Sitting and learning means sitting and wasting time, and a draft pick. Saints tried this with Garrett Grayson in the 3rd round and he didn't make it past the pre-season this year.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

I think this years QB class will be talented. I say will because Trubisky, Mahomes, Rudolph have yet to declare. Patrick Mahomes is probably the most physically talented and biggest risk.


----------



## KaseMeOutside

sucks to be a Browns fan with this QB draft. Trubisky is a disaster waiting to happen if he comes out, he needs another year


----------



## Gene Parmesan

No such thing as a guaranteed savior at QB.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

rangerssharks414 said:


> Was this before or after his ACL tear?




before...but...still would


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Gene Parmesan said:


> Chad Kelly is going undrafted.




Best arm in the draft. By a lot. Not alone in my thought


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Mahomes has a way better arm.


----------



## Avs_19

Which white guy will McCaffery most likely be compared to leading up to the draft?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Tommy Vardell.


----------



## sjsharks92

Avs_19 said:


> Which white guy will McCaffery most likely be compared to leading up to the draft?




Danny Woodhead. 

Inevitably Toby Gerhart's name will be brought up too as they're both white RBs out of Stanford. Even though McCaffrey and Gehart's games could not be more opposite.


----------



## MurrayBannerman

Gene Parmesan said:


> Mahomes has a way better arm.




Rudolph?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Rudolph has a good arm.


----------



## Hasbro

I see Chris McCaffrey and think of Gayle Sayers. Yeah, I'm crazy.


----------



## Halladay

I think McCaffrey will be a wide receiver in the NFL.


----------



## InjuredChoker

Gene Parmesan said:


> Mahomes has a way better arm.





kid has one of the best arms in the game.

seems to be pretty raw on limited view but someone is going to take this kid on a high pick. a project, but much better one than likes of hackenberg who have been high picks in recent drafts.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Mahomes is a bigger and more physically gifted Manziel without the baggage and attitude. He hasn't been playing QB long but he has a lot of talent and natural affinity for the position.


----------



## TNT87

Where do some of you think RB James Conner will be drafted? He just announced he will be turning pro.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

It all depends on how well he tests athletically. He's a big dude with long limbs. Was originally a DE coming out of high school. Might be his future.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...myles-garrett-texas-aggies-possible-no-1-pick

The Browns have what one source close to the situation described as an "astronomical grade" on Texas A&M defensive end Myles Garrett, a blue-chip prospect who could dramatically upgrade Cleveland's defense. The Browns are enamored with Garrett, according to the source.


----------



## AllAbout813

spintheblackcircle said:


> http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...myles-garrett-texas-aggies-possible-no-1-pick
> 
> The Browns have what one source close to the situation described as an "astronomical grade" on Texas A&M defensive end Myles Garrett, a blue-chip prospect who could dramatically upgrade Cleveland's defense. The Browns are enamored with Garrett, according to the source.




Garrett is a freak. Much like the 2014 class with Clowney, there is just no way he's not the first overall pick. Whether that's to the Browns or to another team after a trade back.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He's really good. I see him as a JPP clone. Long, lean athlete.


----------



## Troy McClure

wrong thread.


----------



## Avs_19

I haven't seen much of Garrett myself but everything I read seems to suggest he's ridiculous. Browns have extra picks so they could still get their QB too after taking Garrett with the top pick.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

6'5" 275 with speed, power and agility. Needs to get better at the POA but he's a star in the making.


----------



## Tony Romo

whos first do they have? Eagles? They can get Garrett #1 and either trade up or hope their QB falls to them.


----------



## Avs_19

Gene Parmesan said:


> 6'5" 275 with speed, power and agility. Needs to get better at the POA but he's a star in the making.




Nice. Looking forward to watching him in the lead up to the draft. 



Tony Romo said:


> whos first do they have? Eagles? They can get Garrett #1 and either trade up or hope their QB falls to them.




Yeah, they have the Eagles pick and it might be top 10.


----------



## BobbyClarkeFan16

I'd like to see Cleveland turn it around. Hue Jackson seems to be a likable guy that players play hard for. He and the management team inherited a mess, so hopefully they get the required time to turn it around. I think linemen on both sides of the ball are needed, so if they draft Garrett Adams and then can grab someone like Cam Robinson with the Cleveland pick, that's a win. 

As for Joe Thomas, they need to do that man a solid and move him to a contender. Get at least a 2nd and 5th for the guy. Let him move on and play for glory for once in his career.

I know the word quarterback keeps coming up with Cleveland, but it doesn't matter who they draft if the offensive line is a mess. Get it fixed first and then find your quarterback.


----------



## Troy McClure

BobbyClarkeFan16 said:


> I'd like to see Cleveland turn it around. Hue Jackson seems to be a likable guy that players play hard for. He and the management team inherited a mess, so hopefully they get the required time to turn it around. I think linemen on both sides of the ball are needed, so if they draft Garrett Adams and then can grab someone like Cam Robinson with the Cleveland pick, that's a win.
> 
> As for Joe Thomas, they need to do that man a solid and move him to a contender. Get at least a 2nd and 5th for the guy. Let him move on and play for glory for once in his career.
> 
> I know the word quarterback keeps coming up with Cleveland, but it doesn't matter who they draft if the offensive line is a mess. Get it fixed first and then find your quarterback.




If fixing the offensive line is a priority, trading Joe Thomas makes no sense.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Especially when this one of the worst O-line classes in years.


----------



## Marc the Habs Fan

The top 10 as of now:

1. Browns
2. 49ers
3. Jags
4. Bears
5. Jets 
6. Titans (via Rams)
7. Panthers
8. Saints
9. Browns (via Eagles)
10. Chargers


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Lol Rams.


----------



## BobbyClarkeFan16

Troy McClure said:


> If fixing the offensive line is a priority, trading Joe Thomas makes no sense.




It does when you consider he's going to be 34 at the end of next season. Thomas has A LOT of miles on his body. Get something for him now and build the line entirely with youth. They can grow together and learn together.


----------



## Troy McClure

Thomas is 34, but he's on a cheap contract. Whatever they get for him won't equal what he's going to contribute over the next three seasons.


----------



## Hasbro

A good left tackle is immeasurable use helping a young QB.


----------



## Marc the Habs Fan

Thomas just turned 32.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Kizer makes it official.


----------



## Avs_19

Marc the Habs Fan said:


> The top 10 as of now:
> 
> 1. Browns
> 2. 49ers
> 3. Jags
> 4. Bears
> 5. Jets
> 6. Titans (via Rams)
> 7. Panthers
> 8. Saints
> 9. Browns (via Eagles)
> 10. Chargers




The Browns usually find a way to screw things up but they're in a great spot here. They have four picks in the first two rounds. 

The Rams are on the other end of a RG3 type trade now. Gave up a 1st, two 2nds, and a 3rd last year. Another 1st (possibly top 5) and a 3rd to go this year. Good for the Titans. 

Eagles might give up a top 10 pick but at least they'll get the Vikings pick, which will probably be somewhere in the 14-18 range.


----------



## canwincup

Is Takkarist McKinley a top 15 pick? I've seen some people really high on him and others not so much. Anyone know more about him?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Yes he is. Probably top 10.


----------



## canwincup

Gene Parmesan said:


> Yes he is. Probably top 10.




He doesn't have ideal size, but from the highlight videos I've watched he has elite quickness coming off the edge. Thanks!


----------



## Gene Parmesan

canwincup said:


> He doesn't have ideal size, but from the highlight videos I've watched he has elite quickness coming off the edge. Thanks!




He's 6'3 265. Similar build to DeMarcus Ware and Justin Houston. He's a force player.


----------



## canwincup

Gene Parmesan said:


> He's 6'3 265. Similar build to DeMarcus Ware and Justin Houston. He's a force player.




I've seen him listed anywhere form 6'1-6'2, do you think he's the second best edge rusher in the draft?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

I think he is. 

Myles Garrett
Takk McKinley
Derek Barnett
Tim Williams
Carl Lawson

Its a deep group.


----------



## Halladay

Chubb is going back to Georgia.


----------



## Bonzai12

Kinda surprised by Chubb. But with a very strong RB class I guess he figured he could do better next year.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Its actually smart of Chubb. He would probably be a day 3 pick.


----------



## Carolinas Identity*

Gene, how do you feel about//what is your opinion of Brad Kaaya?

I have seen a few mocks giving us him in the 3rd. I watch a lot of ACC football, but don't think I've seen a single U game.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Fournette skipping the bowl game to "work out".


----------



## rangerssharks414

spintheblackcircle said:


> Fournette skipping the bowl game to "work out".




Smart. You don't want to get hurt like Jaylon Smith did. I'm surprised that more potential high picks don't do this.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Carolinas Identity said:


> Gene, how do you feel about//what is your opinion of Brad Kaaya?
> 
> I have seen a few mocks giving us him in the 3rd. I watch a lot of ACC football, but don't think I've seen a single U game.




Meh. He should stay in school.


----------



## Hockeyfan02

Fournette has been battling an ankle injury most of the season so not surprised he's sitting out.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Joe Mixon's lawyer released the surveillance video. Its as bad as expected.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Gene Parmesan said:


> Joe Mixon's lawyer released the surveillance video. Its as bad as expected.




So.......why wasn't she charged with anything?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

spintheblackcircle said:


> So.......why wasn't she charged with anything?




Did you see it? He clobbered her.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Gene Parmesan said:


> Did you see it? He clobbered her.




After she dropped racial slurs, pushed him in the chest and hit him on the neck first.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

spintheblackcircle said:


> After she dropped racial slurs, pushed him in the chest and hit him on the neck first.




I guess you're ok with it then. He faked a jab and then she slapped him. Of course that means she deserved her broken jaw. The racial slurs were never confirmed btw. The video shows Mixon is a ticking time bomb.


----------



## snowden

How come I've never heard of Mitch Trubisky until looking at all these mock drafts that have him going high in the 1st?


----------



## rangerssharks414

snowden said:


> How come I've never heard of Mitch Turbiskey until looking at all these mock drafts that have him going high in the 1st?




Maybe because North Carolina doesn't play in a lot of "big games".


----------



## spintheblackcircle

some kid from Grambling just made one of the best catches I've seen....


----------



## canwincup

Do you guys think Ruben Foster is as good of a prospect as Jaylon Smith was pre injury?


----------



## Taro Tsujimoto

And here's your non-playoff team draft order. Note that Philadelphia and Indianapolis will have to flip a coin to determine who gets the #14 pick:

1. Cleveland
2. San Francisco
3. Chicago
4. Jacksonville
5. Tennessee (from Los Angeles)
6. NY Jets
7. San Diego
8. Carolina
9. Cincinnati
10. Buffalo
11. New Orleans
12. Cleveland (from Philadelphia)
13. Arizona
14. Philadelphia (from Minnesota) or Indianapolis
15. Philadelphia (from Minnesota) or Indianapolis
16. Baltimore
17. Washington
18. Tennessee
19. Tampa Bay
20. Denver

Cleveland (#1, #12) and Tennessee (#5, #18) each have two first round picks. Los Angeles and Minnesota do not have a first round pick.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

canwincup said:


> Do you guys think Ruben Foster is as good of a prospect as Jaylon Smith was pre injury?




Yes.


----------



## MMC

Makes me want to throw up thinking we could've had #5 overall


----------



## AllAbout813

I know it's a long way away, but looks like Bucs are right in that Corey Davis/John Ross range at 19. Id bet a pretty good chunk of change that pick ends up being a WR.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

I don't think Corey Davis will be there.


----------



## AllAbout813

Gene Parmesan said:


> I don't think Corey Davis will be there.




Right, I can definitely see him getting pushed up the board as the process rolls along, it happens often with WRs. I could definitely see Philly taking him. But honestly if I had to pick one the Bucs really need Ross. A speedy playmaker for Jameis is a must.


----------



## KaseMeOutside

i think i might like Cook more than Fournette

wtf why have i seen two mocks with the bears picking kizer 3rd overall???


----------



## Tony Romo

Gene Parmesan said:


> I don't think Corey Davis will be there.




cowboys going to scout him. unless something bad comes out on him. no way he's gonna be there at 32


----------



## What the Faulk

I wonder if Cleveland entertains trading down to 8. To go from a Super Bowl loss to Myles Garrett would be fantastic. I don't know if the drop off between him and the next best DE is worth the likely astronomical price though, and the Browns do apparently seem to like him.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Malik Hooker declared


----------



## Hasbro

What the Faulk said:


> I wonder if Cleveland entertains trading down to 8. To go from a Super Bowl loss to Myles Garrett would be fantastic. I don't know if the drop off between him and the next best DE is worth the likely astronomical price though, and the Browns do apparently seem to like him.




They're pretty stocked up on picks.


----------



## KaseMeOutside

What the Faulk said:


> I wonder if Cleveland entertains trading down to 8. To go from a Super Bowl loss to Myles Garrett would be fantastic. I don't know if the drop off between him and the next best DE is worth the likely astronomical price though, and the Browns do apparently seem to like him.



That team needs talent badly, but if they walked out of the first round with Garrett and Cook/Fournette that would be a pretty damn good haul, with Pryor and Coleman their WR core isn't too bad, add in one of those RB's and now RG3 has some weapons to work with.

They should not pick a QB, they can't go to that well again, not in this draft.

Carolina would have to give up atleast another 1 to move up that high and probably a 2 as well


----------



## KaseMeOutside

I just looked at a 3rd mock that has Kizer as a top 10 pick.

What the hell is going on can someone explain this?


----------



## rangerssharks414

KEEROLE Vatanen said:


> I just looked at a 3rd mock that has Kizer as a top 10 pick.
> 
> What the hell is going on can someone explain this?




Teams are more likely to reach for a QB now that there's a rookie cap.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

KEEROLE Vatanen said:


> I just looked at a 3rd mock that has Kizer as a top 10 pick.
> 
> What the hell is going on can someone explain this?




Because he has elite physical traits as a QB and a lot of talent. Scouts probably feel like he got a raw deal this year at N.D.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

And Malik Hooker is the best safety prospect since Eric Berry. He's above scheme and will flourish in whatever role you give him.


----------



## rangerssharks414

Gene Parmesan said:


> And Malik Hooker is the best safety prospect since Eric Berry. He's above scheme and will flourish in whatever role you give him.




I've seen the LSU safety whose name is escaping me right now mocked ahead of him in some places.


----------



## canwincup

rangerssharks414 said:


> I've seen the LSU safety whose name is escaping me right now mocked ahead of him in some places.




Jamal Adams, I think Hooker is better. In my opinion Adams was better last year than he was this year.


----------



## canwincup

Adoree' Jackson is such a dynamic playmaker


----------



## Gene Parmesan

rangerssharks414 said:


> I've seen the LSU safety whose name is escaping me right now mocked ahead of him in some places.




Jamal Adams is good. Hooker is a better prospect. Size, range and big play ability.


----------



## Troy McClure

KEEROLE Vatanen said:


> That team needs talent badly, but if they walked out of the first round with Garrett and Cook/Fournette that would be a pretty damn good haul, with Pryor and Coleman their WR core isn't too bad, add in one of those RB's and now RG3 has some weapons to work with.
> 
> They should not pick a QB, they can't go to that well again, not in this draft.




There is no such thing as going back to the well too often when your team needs a QB.


----------



## What the Faulk

Kaaya declared, for some reason.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Not like his family is in dire need of cash. That's bizarre.


----------



## KaseMeOutside

Troy McClure said:


> There is no such thing as going back to the well too often when your team needs a QB.




They have failed on QB after QB pick and there are no surefire top guys, no way should they use a high pick on one they are better off giving RG3 a chance and seeing what he can do with some weapons


----------



## GKJ

Gene Parmesan said:


> Not like his family is in dire need of cash. That's bizarre.




Doesn't want to get Barkley'd.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## Gene Parmesan

Best raw physical tools of any QB entering the draft.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Gene Parmesan said:


> Best raw physical tools of any QB entering the draft.




I'm on an island, but to me, that describes Chad Kelly. 

I HATE that I really like Chad Kelly. But I really do.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Yeah definitely on an island with that. Kelly isn't getting drafted.


----------



## Big Poppa Puck

Every time I hear the name Pat Mahomes I think of the crappy MLB pitcher from the late 90s-early 00s.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

That's his dad.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Gene Parmesan said:


> Yeah definitely on an island with that. Kelly isn't getting drafted.




He was in Matt Miller's Mock Draft yesterday.

Was Mr Irrelevant.

...and yes he is

https://www.seccountry.com/mississippi/nfl-executive-tabs-chad-kelly-next-dak-prescott

In an interesting piece by NFL Media’s Daniel Jeremiah, an NFL executive tabbed Kelly as someone who might be able to pull off a similar rise as a professional that the former Mississippi State quarterback enjoyed with the Dallas Cowboys this season.

In the story, Jeremiah polled five executives about the quarterback prospect in the 2016 draft class who could make a big impact in a hurry. Kelly’s name came up right away.


----------



## End of Line

Gareon Conley (Ohio State) has declared


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## Bonzai12

spintheblackcircle said:


> He was in Matt Miller's Mock Draft yesterday.




When I first read that I thought it said Matt Millen's mock draft. LOL. Please let that guy never get close to any draft war room, analysis, or coverage ever again.


----------



## Bonzai12

spintheblackcircle said:


> I'm on an island, but to me, that describes Chad Kelly.
> 
> I HATE that I really like Chad Kelly. But I really do.




My issue with biggest issue with Kelly is his character. Seems like a total punk - I know he comes from good family but he comes off as the spoiled brat.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Bonzai12 said:


> My issue with biggest issue with Kelly is his character. Seems like a total punk - I know he comes from good family but he comes off as the spoiled brat.




That's mostly why I hate liking him as a prospect. I know if I met him, I'd think he was a total bag.

But I'm saying if I'm the Giants or Steelers or Saints the Chargers...and I have a QB with 4 or less years left, I'd draft Kelly in the 5th or so and tell him, "Learn to act like a pro" and in a few years I think you could have a really good one.


----------



## MurrayBannerman

I feel like he's just Ryan Mallett.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

MurrayBannerman said:


> I feel like he's just Ryan Mallett.




A 6'0" version.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2017/01/ohio_state_football_raekwon_mc.html

Raekwon McMillan turning pro


----------



## MMC

https://walterfootball.com/draft2017.php

Thoughts on walterfootball's most recent mock?


----------



## What the Faulk

I could see the Panthers taking a RB like Fournette high, especially after Zeke lit the world on fire this year. They want to mold Cam into Roethlisberger and have him run less, and Jonathan Stewart is going to be 30 next year with an injury history. Plus, they save $6.5 million if he's cut post June 1. This team desperately needs to surround Cam with more talent. Ginn has been great here but he drops too many passes and isn't getting any younger. Neither is Olsen. Benjamin was disappointing. Everyone else could be cut and I wouldn't care.

I don't think they'll take another CB early. Bradberry was something like the 22nd rated corner by CB and he performed well down the stretch in coverage, though his run defense needs work. Daryl Worley was like 55 and had the opposite traits. They're good enough to roll with for another year. Safety? Yeah, probably. Maybe even at #8 depending on who's available.

OT is a good call. Remmers blows, Darryl Williams wasn't impressive, and Oher might not even play football next year with how bad his concussion seems to be. Williams is probably slotted for RT, so if Bisnowaty or McDermott can play LT, all the better. I would not be surprised if Gettleman once again double dipped to address a super weak position. He loves his "hog mollies"

Also, they really wanted either Hunter Henry or Ladarius Green last year. I bet they take one of the first TEs off the board. They should also get a pretty high comp pick for losing Josh Norman I'd guess.


----------



## KaseMeOutside

mymerlincat said:


> https://walterfootball.com/draft2017.php
> 
> Thoughts on walterfootball's most recent mock?



i would be thrilled if the cowboys ended up with Adoree Jackson though I prefer adding to the dline, but he's a playmaker


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Only problem with Adoree is his lack of size and length. He was bodied by Pac-12 wideouts. Great athlete and playmaker for sure, I think he should play offense full time.


----------



## Bonzai12

mymerlincat said:


> https://walterfootball.com/draft2017.php
> 
> Thoughts on walterfootball's most recent mock?




Can't see Cam Robinson lasting until #9. Someone will jump up and get him (hard to mock that though). 

Also no way McCaffrey slips out of the first round.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

No O-line in the top 15.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

Lots of talk Bears may go safety at #3

Lack of playmaking talent back there has been problem for years (Really since Mike Brown got injured) and our GM essentially said in press conference that Bears will be looking to address secondary via draft and FA this year

Adrian Amos is a good young safety who Bears seem set with and will be looking for another young safety to pair with him going forward


----------



## rangerssharks414

mymerlincat said:


> https://walterfootball.com/draft2017.php
> 
> Thoughts on walterfootball's most recent mock?




I hate that site so much. I don't know why.


----------



## Live in the Now

Blackhawkswincup said:


> Lots of talk Bears may go safety at #3
> 
> Lack of playmaking talent back there has been problem for years (Really since Mike Brown got injured) and our GM essentially said in press conference that Bears will be looking to address secondary via draft and FA this year
> 
> Adrian Amos is a good young safety who Bears seem set with and will be looking for another young safety to pair with him going forward




Malik Hooker is the obvious one. To call him a playmaker might be underselling him.

Raiders probably won't pick John Ross even though I'd like them to, and I can't imagine them taking another DE even though I'd like them to. CB is probably the spot this year.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

mymerlincat said:


> https://walterfootball.com/draft2017.php
> 
> Thoughts on walterfootball's most recent mock?




I don't mind Allen pick but idea that Bears would trade for soon to be 37 yr old Tony Romo while in rebuild is beyond stupid and makes no sense

Especially when we already have a vet #1 already under contract who's future with organization is ? at this point


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

Last time Bears picked a safety that high it worked out well for them ( Mark Carrier , 6th overall in 1990)

Unfortunately Dave Wannstedt and his idiotic defense came along and wasted him and then Bears let him walk as UFA


----------



## USC Trojans

Gene Parmesan said:


> Only problem with Adoree is his lack of size and length. He was bodied by Pac-12 wideouts. Great athlete and playmaker for sure, I think he should play offense full time.




Exactly. For an "elite" corner, Adoree sure gets beat a lot on TDs. He'll get you some deflections and INTs from his athleticism alone, but he's rail thin and will get out muscled by NFL receivers.

I do see a career for him as a nickel back and PR/KR specialist though


----------



## Big Poppa Puck

rangerssharks414 said:


> I hate that site so much. I don't know why.





Walter's no more of an expert than any of us. But at the same time it's still a fun site to look at to get your mock/prospect fix during the offseason. Charlie Campbell from that site knows more than he does and is at least a little plugged in.


----------



## MurrayBannerman

Live in the Now said:


> Malik Hooker is the obvious one. To call him a playmaker might be underselling him.
> 
> Raiders probably won't pick John Ross even though I'd like them to, and I can't imagine them taking another DE even though I'd like them to. CB is probably the spot this year.




I'd be pretty happy with Hooker, but prefer Allen and Garrett to him.


----------



## What the Faulk

Which Safety position does Hooker play? Or does it even matter?


----------



## Dominator13

I have mixed feelings about Dalvin Cook for the Colts. He's my favorite RB prospect in the draft but we have sooo many holes on defense. The good news is we'll have about 50 mil to spend next summer, so we might build the defense NY Giants style instead.


----------



## MurrayBannerman

What the Faulk said:


> Which Safety position does Hooker play? Or does it even matter?




Free, right?


----------



## ShootIt

KEEROLE Vatanen said:


> i would be thrilled if the cowboys ended up with Adoree Jackson though I prefer adding to the dline, but he's a playmaker




Sure they'll have their eye on him due to him probably having a freak SPARQ score, but I just don't know how he'll adjust to the NFL in regards to defense. 

And if we keep Claiborne, our cornerback position ain't that bad with Mo, Brown and Scandrick.


----------



## Big Poppa Puck

As an FSU/Vikings fan, I'm pretty much resound to the fact Cook is going to the Eagles with the Bradford pick and I'm sick about it.

The Vikings probably wouldn't be going RB if they still had the pick anyway, but still.


----------



## What the Faulk

Big Poppa Puck said:


> As an FSU/Vikings fan, I'm pretty much resound to the fact Cook is going to the Eagles with the Bradford pick and I'm sick about it.
> 
> The Vikings probably wouldn't be going RB if they still had the pick anyway, but still.




Don't sleep on Carolina beating them to the punch.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Fournette is a suped up J-Stew. I can't see them passing him up unless they go Hooker or Adams.


----------



## What the Faulk

My only thought is that they might want a Bell to go with their Ben, in which case Cook makes more sense than Fournette. Or Fournette might be gone and they still feel that Cook is the BPA.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Fournette can do all the things Cook can do.


----------



## Bonzai12

Gene Parmesan said:


> Fournette can do all the things Cook can do.




except stay on the field


----------



## KaseMeOutside

ShootIt said:


> Sure they'll have their eye on him due to him probably having a freak SPARQ score, but I just don't know how he'll adjust to the NFL in regards to defense.
> 
> And if we keep Claiborne, our cornerback position ain't that bad with Mo, Brown and Scandrick.




I like Budda Baker more as an NFL corner but Adoree could add alot to our return game which has lacked for a long time. My preference is to try and find an edge rusher, with the emergence of Irving as kind of a utility DL and Collins inside that would really help the defense alot.


I think Claiborne's injury will make him affordable to retain, I also think we have to look at RT, WR and S. Would not be surprised to see Dallas go WR in the first round


----------



## JRull86

I'd be shocked if McCaffrey dropped to the mid 2nd. He's exactly the type of player the Pats love. Even though they are pretty set with pass catching backs, he can do a bit more.

Also don't see the Pats taking a corner in the 1st round. Cyrus Jones has been up and down this year, but he's shown something in pass coverage at times, and was their 2nd rounder last year.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Bonzai12 said:


> except stay on the field




That's not true but sure.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

JRull86 said:


> I'd be shocked if McCaffrey dropped to the mid 2nd. He's exactly the type of player the Pats love. Even though they are pretty set with pass catching backs, he can do a bit more.
> 
> Also don't see the Pats taking a corner in the 1st round. Cyrus Jones has been up and down this year, but he's shown something in pass coverage at times, and was their 2nd rounder last year.




McCaffery would be a slot beast with his size and twitch.


----------



## What the Faulk

Joe Mixon declared too. Let's see what team gives him a shot.


----------



## Tony Romo

Gene, have you watched tape onWyoming QB Josh Allen? thoughts on him?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He has tools but he's extremely raw. He should stay in school.


----------



## rangerssharks414

What the Faulk said:


> Joe Mixon declared too. Let's see what team gives him a shot.




I thought he should have stayed another year.


----------



## Tony Romo

Gene Parmesan said:


> He has tools but he's extremely raw. He should stay in school.




could see him declaring with no definite top QB in this class and next years looking pretty good if Rosen bounces back


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Tony Romo said:


> could see him declaring with no definite top QB in this class and next years looking pretty good if Rosen bounces back




DeShaun Watson is the best. Rosen is another hype job.


----------



## Bonzai12

this is a tough QB class to figure out. I don't think anyone really stands out. Maybe Mahomes but I wouldn't take him until round 2/3.

The college QB is just so different from the NFL pocket passer right now. Almost every one of these guys has flaws like last year's QBs did.


----------



## Tony Romo

Bonzai12 said:


> this is a tough QB class to figure out. I don't think anyone really stands out. Maybe Mahomes but I wouldn't take him until round 2/3.
> 
> The college QB is just so different from the NFL pocket passer right now. Almost every one of these guys has flaws like last year's QBs did.




The best QB in the NFL relies on his mobility a decent chunk also.


----------



## ShootIt

KEEROLE Vatanen said:


> I like Budda Baker more as an NFL corner but Adoree could add alot to our return game which has lacked for a long time. My preference is to try and find an edge rusher, with the emergence of Irving as kind of a utility DL and Collins inside that would really help the defense alot.
> 
> 
> I think Claiborne's injury will make him affordable to retain, I also think we have to look at RT, WR and S. Would not be surprised to see Dallas go WR in the first round




I agree about an edge rusher. My fear is that D-Law will be hampered by this back injury, along with Tapper and Gregory is suspended again. Ty Crawford does a good job against the run, average against the pass and next year his salary jumps to 10m IIRC. 

Wouldn't be against a receiver either, as I bet T-Williams leaves and maybe we can find a guy who can bloom into a #1. I like Dez, but once his athleticism goes down, he'll have to put in a lot of work into technique to stay in the NFL for a while.

As for returns, definitely need to find a better punt returner, as Lucky likes to run more E-W than N-S. Just don't know if it's worth taking someone in the first who may only contribute 1-5 times a game if his defensive side needs a few years to craft. And with KO's going to the 25 yard line, the pure KO guys may be joining the pure fullbacks in extinction.


----------



## JRull86

Tony Romo said:


> The best QB in the NFL relies on his mobility a decent chunk also.




And that is...?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

JRull86 said:


> And that is...?




Aaron Rodgers.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Bonzai12 said:


> this is a tough QB class to figure out. I don't think anyone really stands out. Maybe Mahomes but I wouldn't take him until round 2/3.
> 
> The college QB is just so different from the NFL pocket passer right now. Almost every one of these guys has flaws like last year's QBs did.




Every single QB has flaws.


----------



## Bonzai12

Gene Parmesan said:


> Every single QB has flaws.




true but the college game just seems like it's so dummed down that a QB really doesn't have to do much at all anymore. They've oversimplified things for a QB to the point where it's almost detrimental to his development as a pro QB. Not that the NCAA coaches care in the slightest about that. It's a scary trend that the kids coming out of these schools have never run a huddle, never taken snaps under center, never had to go through more than 2 progressions, operate in spread/moving pocket designs....

If history repeats itself and the Pros adapt the NCAA game, 2 legitimate QB's are going to be needed on every roster. Some NFL guys have seemingly tried to dip their feet into the NCAA schemes and been burned badly with QB injuries.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Buckeye Noah Brown is turning pro.


----------



## Street Hawk

Bonzai12 said:


> true but the college game just seems like it's so dummed down that a QB really doesn't have to do much at all anymore. They've oversimplified things for a QB to the point where it's almost detrimental to his development as a pro QB. Not that the NCAA coaches care in the slightest about that. It's a scary trend that the kids coming out of these schools have never run a huddle, never taken snaps under center, never had to go through more than 2 progressions, operate in spread/moving pocket designs....
> 
> If history repeats itself and the Pros adapt the NCAA game, 2 legitimate QB's are going to be needed on every roster. Some NFL guys have seemingly tried to dip their feet into the NCAA schemes and been burned badly with QB injuries.




If you are a young QB out of high school, that's where you have to decide with college program is right for you. And that takes into account a lot of factors that other position players don't have to account for, outside of maybe OL, cause if OL go to a option team, like Wake Forest has been, they won't develop their pass protection skills. Playing in a spread offence with 1 read means that they are not asked to hold their blocks for too long.

I'm sure high school QBs think of the following:

1) Which school have I dreamed about playing at. That's a huge deal for a lot of kids
2) What type of system does the coach run there
3) Is the coach in a stable employment situation? either, he isn't likely to get fired before I can compete for the starting role or he doesn't leave for a better job
4) Who is the starter and what class is he in? Junior/Senior?
5) Who are the guys that I would be competing with when I arrive? 

Etc. Some kid might dream about playing at Michigan, but if they just brought in a 5 star recruit the prior year, then you likely aren't going to play until your Junior year, possibly even your senior year and no sure thing that a young upstart that they bring in after you won't beat you out.

More teams are going spread vs pro style in the NCAA.

As well, some big time HS recruits don't deliver when they get the starter role.

Max Browne couldn't hold off Darnold at USC. Ricky Town couldn't beat out Allen at Arkansas. Tanner Magnum had to sit another season behind Taysom Hill whom took a medical redshirt year. Keller Christ didn't win the job at Stanford.

Those are some big time HS recruits that didn't win the job in the 2nd - 4th year in the program.

Biggest disappointment would be Browne. He transferred to Pitt so hopefully he puts in a good season and develops.

I have no personal attachment to these kids, but as a fan of football, would like to see more quality QBs in the league.


----------



## MurrayBannerman

Been watching this dude's videos on draft prospects.


----------



## InjuredChoker

Dane Brugler Verified account
‏@dpbrugler

Since 1970, only 2 QBs have been drafted 1st round w/ only 1 yr of starting experience at the major college level.

Trubisky would be third.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Trubisky is a one season wonder. Usually those types of QBs are avoided like the plague but hes getting a pass.


----------



## Hasbro

InjuredChoker said:


> Dane Brugler Verified account
> ‏@dpbrugler
> 
> Since 1970, only 2 QBs have been drafted 1st round w/ only 1 yr of starting experience at the major college level.
> 
> Trubisky would be third.



Who were the other two?


----------



## What the Faulk

One turned out okay and the other was serviceable for a time. But TJ Yates was a four year starter and all it landed him was a permanent third string role. He wasn't drafted in the first round, of course, but college experience doesn't always translate beyond the film room.

If I were a QB needy team, I'd take a shot at Trubisky, but not in the first and certainly not at the top of the first, where he's projected to go. As a Panthers fan, however, I'm hoping that there's a run on QBs. Between Cleveland, SF, Chicago, and NYJ, there could be 3+ taken before 8. It'd be a mistake, but it's possible.


----------



## MurrayBannerman

pls no baers


----------



## Babe Ruth

Bonzai12 said:


> true but the college game just seems like it's so dumbed down that a QB really doesn't have to do much at all anymore. They've oversimplified things for a QB to the point where it's almost detrimental to his development as a pro QB..and been burned badly with QB injuries.




Amen Bonzai..
I've mentioned this thru our football forum. There is a deliberate shift in attitude & scouting of QBs now. Colleges are cultivating QBs who are _dual threats_.. that instinctively want to take a snap & run. Nothing wrong with that, except in the pros, if u continuously run like a running back, that player will likely have the shortened shelf life of a running back.
The traditional, analytical pocket passer is supposedly obsolete.. but I believe it is progressively happening more by calculated design, than the proven failure of pocket passing. It's pointed out, that guys like Rodgers can run (true).. but he's an overwhelmingly arm-before-legs player, as opposed to NFL peers like Kap & R.G.Knee. 

The 2 MVP (QB) favorites this year, Brady & Ryan.. tearing it up from the pocket.


----------



## Street Hawk

Getting harder and harder to develop QBs in college. 

It also probably doesn't help that kids and top programs like to collect a top QB recruit every year. Kids all have the confidence that they can beat out the incumbent starter. Which rarely happens.

Like I said earlier, a recruit needs to consider the system the team operates, likelihood that the coach will stick around, if he likes the coach, and his chances if playing QB. Maybe more top recruit s pay attention to the QB situation at the school rather than be over confident about taking over as a freshman. 

I mean ,hurts is a true freshman, so what would a kid be thinking if he took a scholarship to Alabama starting in the fall? He's going to sit for at least 2 years, maybe 3.

Barnett who started the first half of game 1 against USC transferred to Arizona state, whose starter was a sophomore this year. So, what are his chances of playing before his final year of eligibility? Maybe via injury?

Think NCAA should allow players to transfer if they have already taken a redshirt year and have used up one year of eligibility. So, taking Barnett from Alabama, he could in 2017 play for another NCAA division 1 program, cause he redshirted in 2015 and 2016 was his first year of eligibility.

He still can, but only after game 4.

With the derth at QB in the NFL, hoping that something can be done to develop QBs in college to get them ready to play. Rules have been adjusted to benefit the QB.

They can throw the ball away, no low hits on n them, they get calls if there is contact made on their helmet, illegal contact is called tight, and if they under throw a ball if their wr jumps back into the DB, they get the PI call most times.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

tOSU Curtis Samuel declared.....that's 5 underclassmen so far


----------



## Riggins

Niners and Bears fans - any feelings about whether your team might take a QB at 2 or 3? I'm hoping Jonathan Allen falls to 4 for the Jags.


----------



## rangerssharks414

BC edge player Harold Landry is going back to BC.


----------



## MMC

Riggins said:


> Niners and Bears fans - any feelings about whether your team might take a QB at 2 or 3? I'm hoping Jonathan Allen falls to 4 for the Jags.




I'm not a fan of either but I think the Niners definitely will. Bears... Depends if Cleveland does. I don't think Cleveland will, but I still don't think the Bears would anyways,


----------



## Dominator13

And with the 2nd overall pick, the San Francisco 49ers are proud to select... from Clemson....


----------



## rangerssharks414

Pax Macioretty said:


> And with the 2nd overall pick, the San Francisco 49ers are proud to select... from Clemson....




Mike Williams.


----------



## Tony Romo

Mike Williams or OJ Howard please be there at 32


----------



## rangerssharks414

Tony Romo said:


> *Mike Williams* or OJ Howard please be there at 32




No chance. Howard might be there, but there's no chance Williams will be.


----------



## Halladay

I really wanted the Eagles to draft Williams, he might have been there before tonight.


----------



## Dominator13

Tony Romo said:


> Mike Williams or OJ Howard please be there at 32




LOL. I don't think he gets by the Titans at 5, Williams is exactly what they're missing.


----------



## Tony Romo

I seriously do not understand how evaluators are saying Deshaun Watson isn't the best QB. He's literally been the best player in cfb the last 2 years.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Tony Romo said:


> I seriously do not understand how evaluators are saying Deshaun Watson isn't the best QB. He's literally been the best player in cfb the last 2 years.




These are the same idiots that prop up Mitch Trubisky despite playing in a simpler scheme and putting up worse numbers than Marquise Williams did last year.


----------



## canwincup

Tony Romo said:


> I seriously do not understand how evaluators are saying Deshaun Watson isn't the best QB. He's literally been the best player in cfb the last 2 years.




He occasionally misses his targets that's why scouts have soured on him, I think he's easily the best QB in the draft. People also said that Dak was very inaccurate but look how that turned out.


----------



## Avs_19

I've only watched Watson play around 5 or 6 times but he looks pretty good. It seems as if he'll be one of the guys picked apart the most this year based on what I've already seen.


----------



## canwincup

Reuben Foster and Mike Williams are special players, I wouldn't hesitate taking either in the top 5.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

canwincup said:


> He occasionally misses his targets that's why scouts have soured on him, I think he's easily the best QB in the draft. People also said that Dak was very inaccurate but look how that turned out.




Yet a dud like Kaaya will get hyped up despite being incredibly boring and average.


----------



## What the Faulk

Avs_19 said:


> I've only watched Watson play around 5 or 6 times but he looks pretty good. It seems as if he'll be one of the guys picked apart the most this year based on what I've already seen.




I'm still not sure I see top 5 pick in him, though.


----------



## Big Poppa Puck

I'm not big on any QB in this class. And Trubisky just seems like Bortles part 2. Wouldn't touch him in the 1st.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Jabrill Peppers is leaving Michigan. Time for another hype job.


----------



## m9

I think there's a good chance Kizer ends up graded as the top QB when the process is over.


----------



## KaseMeOutside

Watson torched the best defense by a fair margin in the country. If i was rolling the dice on one of these qbs in the first round it'd be him, but i don't think any of these guys are blue chip prospects


----------



## Gene Parmesan

KEEROLE Vatanen said:


> Watson torched the best defense by a fair margin in the country. If i was rolling the dice on one of these qbs in the first round it'd be him, but i don't think any of these guys are blue chip prospects




He's done it on the biggest stage. Twice.


----------



## MMC

Wonder how much it would cost for the Niners to move up to first. Browns should entertain that if they like Garrett cause SF ain't taking Garrett.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

San Francisco would take Garrett.


----------



## MMC

Gene Parmesan said:


> San Francisco would take Garrett.




I just don't see it man, they took Buckner last year.


----------



## What the Faulk

Why else would SF trade with Cleveland if not to take Garrett? If they know Cleveland is going to take Garrett and they didn't want him, why would they trade up? Doesn't really make any sense.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

mymerlincat said:


> I just don't see it man, they took Buckner last year.




Two different positions.


----------



## MMC

What the Faulk said:


> Why else would SF trade with Cleveland if not to take Garrett? If they know Cleveland is going to take Garrett and they didn't want him, why would they trade up? Doesn't really make any sense.



Maybe they don't know that.


Gene Parmesan said:


> Two different positions.




I was under the impression he was playing End for them this year. Regardless going D-line with two high picks in a row doesn't make much sense for them.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

mymerlincat said:


> Maybe they don't know that.
> 
> 
> I was under the impression he was playing End for them this year. Regardless going D-line with two high picks in a row doesn't make much sense for them.




If the 49ers take Garrett its because he's highest on their board. I like the idea of Aaron Lynch-Armstead-Buckner-Garrett as a front 4. Buckner is much better inside.


----------



## canwincup

A better question would be, if Jonathan Allen is the number 2 rated player on their board would they take him? I guess it depends on if the new head coach decides to go with a 4-3 defense or a 3-4.


----------



## MMC

This week's update.

https://walterfootball.com/draft2017.php


----------



## Hockeyfan02

KEEROLE Vatanen said:


> Watson torched the best defense by a fair margin in the country. If i was rolling the dice on one of these qbs in the first round it'd be him, but i don't think any of these guys are blue chip prospects




Manziel put up big numbers against them too. I think he's a great college player but that doesn't always translate to the NFL.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Hockeyfan02 said:


> Manziel put up big numbers against them too. I think he's a great college player but that doesn't always translate to the NFL.




Manziel played with zero structure. Watson isn't Manziel.


----------



## landy92mack29

Is there a chance Mike Williams could make it to the Chargers at 7? think he'd be a great fit


----------



## rangerssharks414

landy92mack29 said:


> Is there a chance Mike Williams could make it to the Chargers at 7? think he'd be a great fit




I don't agree with this, but it probably depends on his 40 time.


----------



## KaseMeOutside

landy92mack29 said:


> Is there a chance Mike Williams could make it to the Chargers at 7? think he'd be a great fit



I would be very surprised if the Titans don't pick him they need a WR like this for Mariota


----------



## Hockeyfan02

Gene Parmesan said:


> Manziel played with zero structure. Watson isn't Manziel.




That goes without saying but big numbers in college are meaningless. You have to evaluate everything not just look at numbers.


----------



## bluesfan94

Hockeyfan02 said:


> Manziel put up big numbers against them too. I think he's a great college player but that doesn't always translate to the NFL.






Gene Parmesan said:


> Manziel played with zero structure. Watson isn't Manziel.




I was gonna say. Comparing Watson to Manziel and the offenses they played in is offensive to Watson.


----------



## m9

I think if you want to compare potential issues of Watson to Manziel, there are two things they have in common. Both have non-prototypical size and both had a blue chip WR that are elite at contested catches and bailed out their QB at times. But that's about it.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Watson is 6'2" 225. Manziel is maybe 6' and maybe 200 lbs. He's a tough evaluation so naturally he's going to get tagged with dumb **** narratives. The NFL likes straightforward evals like Jameis or Luck.


----------



## Halladay

All these measurements are ridiculous with quarterbacks. I would say handsize and having gorilla grip is more important than actual height.


----------



## Avs_19

Quite a few DBs pretty high on his list.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Its a crazy good class. Safeties and corners.


----------



## m9

Gene Parmesan said:


> Watson is 6'2" 225. Manziel is maybe 6' and maybe 200 lbs. He's a tough evaluation so naturally he's going to get tagged with dumb **** narratives. The NFL likes straightforward evals like Jameis or Luck.




I don't mean height, I mean more in terms of frame. There will be some teams that question his frame and accuracy, and that will be enough to pass on him.


----------



## KaseMeOutside

Watson is going to be hotly debated. Bears or Jets is my guess, he can get those fan bases excited again


----------



## MMC

https://walterfootball.com/draft2017_1.php


----------



## MurrayBannerman

KEEROLE Vatanen said:


> Watson is going to be hotly debated. Bears or Jets is my guess, he can get those fan bases excited again




Please no


----------



## Tony Romo

Gene, where does MArshon Lattimore rank in your recent CB rankings in past drafts?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He's up there. This is a fantastic corner group.


----------



## MMC

I guess another question I have is just how good of a prospect is Mike Williams and just what separates him from every other receiver in this draft? Same thing with Mahomes and why he is graded so highly.


----------



## John Price




----------



## rangerssharks414

2013 says hi. I know it says "one of" the worst, but 2013 was awful for QBs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NFL_Draft


----------



## Gene Parmesan

mymerlincat said:


> I guess another question I have is just how good of a prospect is Mike Williams and just what separates him from every other receiver in this draft? Same thing with Mahomes and why he is graded so highly.




Traits. Its all about traits.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

G F O P said:


>





This is stupid.


----------



## John Price

Gene Parmesan said:


> This is stupid.




Thoughts on Jerrod Evans.


----------



## rangerssharks414

mymerlincat said:


> I guess another question I have is just how good of a prospect is Mike Williams and just what separates him from every other receiver in this draft? Same thing with Mahomes and why he is graded so highly.




Williams has really good size, and he wins a lot of 50-50 balls. He probably won't run a great 40, but I feel like 40 times are massively overrated.

Mahomes is just different from all of the other Texas Tech QBs that I watched.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

G F O P said:


> Thoughts on Jerrod Evans.




Raw but physical traits are there.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Williams will run in the 4.5's. He's an explosive and smooth athlete. This isn't Treadwell or Devin Funchess. Mahomes can absolutely sling it and from various platforms. He's mobile and is a fiery leader. Plays reckless at times and needs better structure but he's got talent.


----------



## MurrayBannerman

Am I correct in believing that Jonathan Allen makes no sense for the 49ers, Gene?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Absolutely zero.


----------



## Dominator13

MurrayBannerman said:


> Am I correct in believing that Jonathan Allen makes no sense for the 49ers, Gene?




I would laugh hard. Armstead to Buckner to Allen would be one of the worst GM draft decisions ever.


----------



## Carolinas Identity*

Pax Macioretty said:


> I would laugh hard. Armstead to Buckner to Allen would be one of the worst GM draft decisions ever.




i trust this opinion

colts fans must be experts on ***ty gm moves at this point


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Pax Macioretty said:


> I would laugh hard. Armstead to Buckner to Allen would be one of the worst GM draft decisions ever.




Well I don't expect the new GM will ddo that.


----------



## six sigma

Gene Parmesan said:


> Absolutely zero.




Good. 

I'm liking the sound of this crop of safeties and corners this year. SEA has need of both...depth behind Earl especially, but Jeremy Lane took a big step backwards this year and needs to never play the outside. 

Guess we could use an OT or two as well.


----------



## Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth said:


> Brady & Ryan.. tearing it up from the pocket.




We have a Brady vs Ryan Super Bowl..

Where is my man _Gene Parmesan_, to remind us that the hyper-mobile and/or read-option guys are the present & future of the NFL. The only ones who can deliver in the modern NFL are QBs like R.G. Knee, Kaeperdick, and the Vanishing Man- EJ Manuel..

Who is Parmesan's next big thing.., who will carry the proud mantle bequeathed by Akili Smith..
Kizer ?


----------



## MurrayBannerman

I can vomit on my keyboard, too, and pass it off as a post.


----------



## John Price

None of the QB's particularly impress me this class. Sadly they are all ACC though  With the exception of the Mahones lad. 

Trubinsky
Kizer
Evans
Watson 
Kaaya


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Babe Ruth said:


> We have a Brady vs Ryan Super Bowl..
> 
> Where is my man _Gene Parmesan_, to remind us that the hyper-mobile and/or read-option guys are the present & future of the NFL. The only ones who can deliver in the modern NFL are QBs like R.G. Knee, Kaeperdick, and the Vanishing Man- EJ Manuel..
> 
> Who is Parmesan's next big thing.., who will carry the proud mantle bequeathed by Akili Smith..
> Kizer ?




I never said anything of the sort. Matt Ryan has his best year when encouraged to use his athleticism by his OC. Brady also is mobile. You can't seem to grasp the concept that mobility as a QB is a good thing and its not a negative. Good job stereotyping every black QB though.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

G F O P said:


> None of the QB's particularly impress me this class. Sadly they are all ACC though  With the exception of the Mahones lad.
> 
> Trubinsky
> Kizer
> Evans
> Watson
> Kaaya




Kaaya isn't good. He and Evans should have stayed in school. Unless Evans has a financial reason for leaving early, I don't understand why he did given Fuentes track record with QBs.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

G F O P said:


> None of the QB's particularly impress me this class. Sadly they are all ACC though  With the exception of the Mahones lad.
> 
> Trubinsky
> Kizer
> Evans
> Watson
> Kaaya




Don't like any of them. And I do like Chad Kelly as a late pick. Actually, I love Kelly as a late pick.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

UDFA. Will kick around on practice squads simply due to his last name.


----------



## Bonzai12

yeah right......Kelly will be drafted.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

spintheblackcircle said:


> Don't like any of them. And I do like Chad Kelly as a late pick. Actually, I love Kelly as a late pick.




Comes off as a headache not worth the investment of a pick at this point


----------



## spintheblackcircle

he's likely to go 3-4th round.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

FCS player of the year WR Cooper Kupp from E. Washington is apparently crushing it at the senior bowl



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...mong-senior-bowl-players-making-1stround-push

Eastern Washington WR Cooper Kupp, one of the stars of the week thus far in practices, is improving his draft stock. NFL.com senior analyst Gil Brandt believes Kupp could end up in the first-round conversation.


----------



## MMC

https://walterfootball.com/draft2017.php


----------



## Carolinas Identity*

Walter is a hack, please use Charlie Campbell's instead, as he actually knows what he's talking about.

Also, Gene, if we stay at #4, we pretty much HAVE to take a DL, but we ened a LT. WHat would you think of us trading down with say SD or CAR for Cam Robinson?


----------



## What the Faulk

mymerlincat said:


> https://walterfootball.com/draft2017.php




Walter needs to stop mocking a CB to Carolina. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't take one at al. S yea, but not CB.


----------



## rangerssharks414

Carolinas Identity said:


> Walter is a hack, please use Charlie Campbell's instead, as he actually knows what he's talking about.
> 
> Also, Gene, if we stay at #4, we pretty much HAVE to take a DL, but we ened a LT. WHat would you think of us trading down with say SD or CAR for Cam Robinson?





I'm not Gene, but I don't think there's a tackle worth taking in the top 10. I think he agrees with me.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Carolinas Identity said:


> Walter is a hack, please use Charlie Campbell's instead, as he actually knows what he's talking about.
> 
> Also, Gene, if we stay at #4, we pretty much HAVE to take a DL, but we ened a LT. WHat would you think of us trading down with say SD or CAR for Cam Robinson?






It'd a failure to take a LT at #4 in this draft. Jonathan Allen makes sense for the Jags.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

spintheblackcircle said:


> he's likely to go 3-4th round.




He got a 7th round grade from the advisory board.


----------



## What the Faulk

I'm going to go ahead and call Ryan Switzer to Carolina (round TBD) assuming he doesn't **** things up in the next few months.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Gene Parmesan said:


> He got a 7th round grade from the advisory board.




Just my .02, but someone will take him earlier. Just takes one. And I am calling it for Pittsburgh, NYG, Chargers or Saints. A team with an old starter with a few years left that puts zero pressure on Kelly other than to get his knee healthy and learn how to be a pro.


----------



## Bonzai12

The thing working against Kelly is that I think he's injured so teams really won't get a good look at him and he probably won't be able to improve his position through workouts/combine. 

On the OT thing - teams are as desperate for OL help as they are QBs. I think Cam goes top 10. Maybe he's not a good mock fit for someone but if he was there at 10 and I'm sitting there in the mid to late teens, I move up and grab him.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

What the Faulk said:


> I'm going to go ahead and call Ryan Switzer to Carolina (round TBD) assuming he doesn't **** things up in the next few months.




He's a boy scout. I see Carolina drafting Zay Jones or Isiah Ford. Slot skillsets but bigger bodies which Carolina prefers. Switzer in Detroit makes sense.


----------



## What the Faulk

Gene Parmesan said:


> He's a boy scout. I see Carolina drafting Zay Jones or Isiah Ford. Slot skillsets but bigger bodies which Carolina prefers. Switzer in Detroit makes sense.




Eh, I don't think they care about size. I would expect the only WRs coming back are Benjamin, Funchess, and Ginn (maybe). Plus Olsen is big. They really lack speed. They could also use a physical guy because they're all pretty soft.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

What the Faulk said:


> Eh, I don't think they care about size. I would expect the only WRs coming back are Benjamin, Funchess, and Ginn (maybe). Plus Olsen is big. They really lack speed. They could also use a physical guy because they're all pretty soft.




That's Ford. Very Anquan Boldin type of skillset.


----------



## What the Faulk

I could see them double dipping at WR if Ginn leaves. He likes it here and it's been a great fit for both sides, but he's a 32-year-old UFA who just hired Rosenhaus. He might want to cash in one last time.

RB, S, OT, and DE are really the only other positions they should even consider drafting. Maybe TE instead of one of the WRs.


----------



## What the Faulk

Hmm...saw a lot of places mocking Fournette to Carolina (though Walter switched to Cook in his latest mock, who I still prefer). This makes him seem pretty one dimensional and reliant upon good zone blocking.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Cook might drop due to a shoulder and off the field stuff.


----------



## Dominator13

How do you guys rank the safeties in that s draft class?

In not sure we've ever seen so many elite defensive backs in 1 draft before.


----------



## What the Faulk

Hm, I didn't know/may have forgotten about the off the field stuff. Is this it? He was found not guilty, but that could still make him a nonstarter for Carolina. Too bad, I think his skillset matches better than Fournette's. I'll have to start looking at safeties beyond Hooker.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Pax Macioretty said:


> How do you guys rank the safeties in that s draft class?
> 
> In not sure we've ever seen so many elite defensive backs in 1 draft before.




Hooker
Adams
Evans
Williams
Peppers


----------



## MurrayBannerman

spintheblackcircle said:


> Hooker
> Adams
> Evans
> Williams
> Peppers




Hooker and Adams should obviously be 1a and 1b because positions.


----------



## Bonzai12

What positions do you guys think are deep? 

I'm hearing TE and I thought all defensive spots were pretty much deep?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

spintheblackcircle said:


> Hooker
> Adams
> Evans
> Williams
> Peppers




I'd put Desmond King (moving to safety) and Buddah Baker ahead of Peppers.


----------



## Blueblood9

Love the draft. But don't usually start looking at the prospects until this time of year. Can some one tell me what's going to be available at S or ILB at 17 for my skins?


----------



## MMC

Does Cunningham play Inside?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Yes.


----------



## MMC

Gene Parmesan said:


> Yes.




I imagine he'll be there at 17 then.


----------



## What the Faulk

I feel like I read about someone else this week who just had surgery and will miss the combine, but I forget who that was.

EDIT: Thanks, Adam


----------



## Tony Romo

What the Faulk said:


> I feel like I read about someone else this week who just had surgery and will miss the combine, but I forget who that was.
> 
> EDIT: Thanks, Adam





will gladly hope one of these guys fall to 28.


----------



## Dominator13

I can't recall a year where the mock drafts were so all over the place.

Deshawn Watson: 3rd to 2nd round 
Fournette: 6th to 19th
Soloman Thomas: 4th to 28th
Barnett: 4th to 25th.

Is it an indication of how good this draft class is or is it just weird predictions?


----------



## MurrayBannerman

It's called pre-combine.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Pax Macioretty said:


> I can't recall a year where the mock drafts were so all over the place.
> 
> Deshawn Watson: 3rd to 2nd round
> Fournette: 6th to 19th
> Soloman Thomas: 4th to 28th
> Barnett: 4th to 25th.
> 
> Is it an indication of how good this draft class is or is it just weird predictions?





Literally guessing.


----------



## Dominator13

Gene Parmesan said:


> Literally guessing.




I know its not that easy, but for the last 12 years or so that that I've been reading mock draft after mock draft, I can't recall lists that are so spread out like this season.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Pax Macioretty said:


> I know its not that easy, but for the last 12 years or so that that I've been reading mock draft after mock draft, I can't recall lists that are so spread out like this season.




We'll know more after the combine.


----------



## GKJ

Watson will be a 1st rounder by the time we get to the draft.


----------



## Dominator13

GKJ said:


> Watson will be a 1st rounder by the time we get to the draft.




If the Patriots trade Garropolo, 32nd looks like a nice spot for him.


----------



## Avs_19

Any good day two OL to keep an eye on? Preferably ones who might be able to start right away.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Forrest Lamp.


----------



## Avs_19

Gene Parmesan said:


> Forrest Lamp.




He'll be an OG in the NFL, right? No good OTs?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Avs_19 said:


> He'll be an OG in the NFL, right? No good OTs?




Nope. The kid from Wisconsin is the best but he's a 1st rounder.


----------



## Avs_19




----------



## Gene Parmesan

Garrett Bolles looks like Joe Staley 2.0. Alvin Kamara is another riser.


----------



## Spoiled Bratt

We all know the Saints will be targeting a defensive player... any good CB worth drafting at 11th overall?


----------



## MurrayBannerman

Lattimore


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Taylor Hall said:


> We all know the Saints will be targeting a defensive player... any good CB worth drafting at 11th overall?




Quite a few.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Jabrill Peppers might be the most overrated players in this draft. For a guy with his rep as a game changer, he hasn't done much to live up to it. The Tyrann Mathieu comps are not even close.


----------



## MMC

Where would you rank him amongst Hooker, Adams, Evans, and I think there's another who has a complicated last name that I can't remember?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He's my 6th or 7th safety tbh.


----------



## Carolinas Identity*

gene

who will the jaguars draft and why will they not pan out?


----------



## Bonzai12

I think Jacksonville has one of the key picks in this draft and will trade down


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Carolinas Identity said:


> gene
> 
> who will the jaguars draft and why will they not pan out?




Jonathan Allen and he will pan out.


----------



## GKJ

Gene Parmesan said:


> Jabrill Peppers might be the most overrated players in this draft. For a guy with his rep as a game changer, he hasn't done much to live up to it. The Tyrann Mathieu comps are not even close.




Is he even going to be a safety?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

GKJ said:


> Is he even going to be a safety?




That's why I don't like these jack of all trade players. Safety might be the only position for him.


----------



## GKJ

Gene Parmesan said:


> That's why I don't like these jack of all trade players. Safety might be the only position for him.




If you're a safety, you can drop down and be a linebacker. You can't really do that as a linebacker dropping back to safety, so if you're already a hybrid in college, you can't really be a safety in the NFL.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

GKJ said:


> If you're a safety, you can drop down and be a linebacker. You can't really do that as a linebacker dropping back to safety, so if you're already a hybrid in college, you can't really be a safety in the NFL.




He is too small and weak to play linebacker. He never really played linebacker except in certain situations.


----------



## Street Hawk

GKJ said:


> If you're a safety, you can drop down and be a linebacker. You can't really do that as a linebacker dropping back to safety, so if you're already a hybrid in college, you can't really be a safety in the NFL.




He's probably best served lining up at LB IMO. 

In the past, you would employ a standard 4-3-4 defence or a 3-4-4 scheme against an offense with 2 WR, TE, RB and FB.

FB are pretty much gone and replace with a slot WR. Plus the TE is more of a pass catching threat now.

So, having an undersized LB who a can cover against the slot WR or TE or be responsible for the RB in coverage is a valuable asset. Kind of like how Shaq Lawson of the Panthers was considered undersized at LB coming out of college, but you need that type of LB to be your coverage guy.

I think as time goes on, you won't be seeing as many Kam Chancellor type SS, as you're going to be relying on your safeties to cover more rather than come down on run support. Need your LB to be able to cover as well.

I think Peppers ends up like Buchanan of the Cardinals. Playing that type of role.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Shaq Thompson and Buccanon are bigger and stronger than Peppers. Peppers is also bad in coverage and doesn't create turnovers.


----------



## rangerssharks414

Combine list:

http://www.nflcombine.net/players/official-invite-list


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Sans the o-line, this is a solid draft. Here are my "gut instinct picks". Guys that won't test well but will be solid pros.

Taco Charlton
DeMarcus Walker
Derek Barnett
Jake Butt
Alvin Kamara
Chad Hansen


----------



## bluesfan94

Butt is just such a risk right now. Good mid round pick


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He's a limited athlete but he's savvy and has soft hands. An ok blocker. O.J. Howard is far and away the best TE prospect in a while. I like the kid from Miami a lot. He's raw but a freak athlete.


----------



## Dominator13

Gene Parmesan said:


> He's a limited athlete but he's savvy and has soft hands. An ok blocker. O.J. Howard is far and away the best TE prospect in a while. I like the kid from Miami a lot. He's raw but a freak athlete.



I wrote it in the off-season, but a team like Jacksonville is one I could see reach for Howard.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

The Giants would be ideal.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Bill Polian said Chad Kelly is the best QB in the draft.


----------



## sjsharks92

spintheblackcircle said:


> Bill Polian said Chad Kelly is the best QB in the draft.




At punching people


----------



## Gene Parmesan

At threatening to shoot up clubs with AK's.


----------



## Dominator13

Pax Macioretty said:


> I wrote it in the off-season, but a team like Jacksonville is one I could see reach for Howard.




That's post makes even more sense now


----------



## Carolinas Identity*

Pax Macioretty said:


> That's post makes even more sense now




how does it make more sense?

why would we reach for howard?


----------



## bluesfan94

Carolinas Identity said:


> how does it make more sense?
> 
> why would we reach for howard?




Cause you just traded Thomas?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Wouldn't waste a top 10 pick on Howard.


----------



## Carolinas Identity*

Gene Parmesan said:


> Wouldn't waste a top 10 pick on Howard.




this x 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004


----------



## bluesfan94

Gene Parmesan said:


> Wouldn't waste a top 10 pick on Howard.




I wouldn't either but that's why it would make more sense now than before.


----------



## What the Faulk

Comp picks are out.


----------



## TNT87




----------



## Dominator13

Carolinas Identity said:


> how does it make more sense?
> 
> why would we reach for howard?




Really? I need to answer that?

Howard was a blocking MONSTER in key moments last season, he would help the run game a lot by himself. He's also too fast for your average SAM linebacker in the passing game. He's just a favorite of mine.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Aviante Collins from TCU just made himself a ton of money at the combine. 6'4'' 295 lbs OT from TCU

He ripped out 34 reps, the 2nd most.....and just ran a 4.81 40-yd dash. 295 pounds, running a 4.81. 

Sickness....if he could catch, can you imagine a 6'4'' 295lb TE coming at you?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Impressive athlete.


----------



## sjsharks92

spintheblackcircle said:


> Aviante Collins from TCU just made himself a ton of money at the combine. 6'4'' 295 lbs OT from TCU
> 
> He ripped out 34 reps, the 2nd most.....and just ran a 4.81 40-yd dash. 295 pounds, running a 4.81.
> 
> Sickness....if he could catch, can you imagine a 6'4'' 295lb TE coming at you?





Wait until you see 280 pound Solomon Thomas run a 4.58 40.


----------



## What the Faulk

Yeah, pretty sure Fournette is going to be a Panther if he makes it to 8.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

4.51 at 240 plus his lateral agility is freakish.


----------



## What the Faulk

No kidding. I'm kind of wondering if he'll even make it to 8. About half the mocks I'm seeing have him going to the Jets, and that's even before this showing.


----------



## Avs_19

Following this on twitter in real time was amusing. First there's some people freaking out and questioning Fournette's draft stock because of his weight and jump. Then he runs a 4.5 and it all goes away and it's back to talking him up. Making judgements after each individual drill is so ridiculous. 

Sounds like McCaffrey has had a pretty good showing. Well, other than being mocked for his bench press.


----------



## GlassesJacketShirt

McCaffrey is a natural pass catcher, has terrific hip movement on turns and cuts. Belichick would love a guy like that......but probably not in the first round.

Cook seemed to have some concentration issues on catching drills unfortunately, might be a factor.

Fournette is what he is, a running back who might occasionally get some late checkdown catches. Definitely have to think he's going to go high with his athleticism/size combo. One team in the top 8 will bite with the impact Elliott had this season, though Elliott's pass blocking ability made him a more well-rounded prospect for today's NFL.


----------



## Bonzai12

I got a bad feeling about Fournette.....I know I am in the super minority but I just don't see him being great in the Pros. 

I was so high on him coming out of high school - I actually drafted the kid in my keeper fantasy league (we get to keep one college player on our roster - kind of like recruiting day).......I just thought he'd be better in college than he was. And I think he's going to have more problems in the pros.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

How much better can he be? He ran against 8 and 9 man fronts and averaged 6.2 ypc. That is elite.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

BLASPHEMOUS said:


> McCaffrey is a natural pass catcher, has terrific hip movement on turns and cuts. Belichick would love a guy like that......but probably not in the first round.
> 
> Cook seemed to have some concentration issues on catching drills unfortunately, might be a factor.
> 
> Fournette is what he is, a running back who might occasionally get some late checkdown catches. Definitely have to think he's going to go high with his athleticism/size combo. One team in the top 8 will bite with the impact Elliott had this season, though Elliott's pass blocking ability made him a more well-rounded prospect for today's NFL.




Take into account that what players are asked to do in college isn't what they can do. Fournette has soft hands. Natural receiving ability. LSU rarely involved backs in the passing game.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Myles Garrett passed every threshold as a projected elite edge rusher. Interesting class. A lot of 6'2-6'3 types. T.J. Watt is an interesting athlete.


----------



## What the Faulk

I know pass protection is a common criticism of Fournette, but there is tape out there that shows how impressive he can be.


----------



## GlassesJacketShirt

Gene Parmesan said:


> Take into account that what players are asked to do in college isn't what they can do. Fournette has soft hands. Natural receiving ability. LSU rarely involved backs in the passing game.




I did not watch Fournette in college, so I am going strictly with hype and observations from today.

That being said, there were a few double catches that made me wonder about his ability when he's going up against players who will try to get in his face. The QB throwing it wasn't super accurate for a lot of receivers, but I can't use that excuse on Fournette's reception chances. He's not incapable of pass catching, but I definitely do not see the natural receiving ability you're talking about here, especially with the surprising lack of vertical ability.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

The low vertical is weird because his 40 was crazy at 240. He should probably drop 10-12 lbs to get that explosion back because 28.5 is not good enough. I still think McCaffery can be an elite slot receiver due to his hands, athleticism and size.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Mitch Trubisky has asked to be called Mitchell from now on.

.....diva......


----------



## What the Faulk

Saw a couple variations of the same joke floating around


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Lol ok Mitch.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Gene Parmesan said:


> Lol ok Mitch.




I know it's nothing....but it's kinda something, right?


----------



## Bonzai12

Three way trade involving 49ers, Redskins and Cowboys in the rumor mill. 

Romo and Cousins could both be moved in trade.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## Avs_19

Bonzai12 said:


> Three way trade involving 49ers, Redskins and Cowboys in the rumor mill.
> 
> Romo and Cousins could both be moved in trade.




I keep getting the feeling the Niners are going to end up doing something very stupid. For their fans' sake I hope the 2nd overall pick isn't in play but they might give up a lot of picks and then sign Cousins to a massive deal.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Its the goofy season.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

spintheblackcircle said:


> I know it's nothing....but it's kinda something, right?




Kind of snowflakey.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/bears-out-to-see-if-patrick-mahomes-is-the-next-jay-cutler/amp/

Talk of Mahomes at Bears 2nd round pick has been around lately

I wouldn't be against it as right now I don't think any QB is worth a high 1st round pick and think Bears should look into round 2 for QB option 

Is Mahomes in Cutler mold? Big armed gunslinger who takes risks?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Nope.


----------



## CDJ

I'll say this- I trust a person named Mitchell more than I trust a person named Mitch 


I just think Mitchell is gonna get injured a lot if hit and Mitch wouldn't have


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## Tony Romo

Avs_19 said:


> I keep getting the feeling the Niners are going to end up doing something very stupid. For their fans' sake I hope the 2nd overall pick isn't in play but they might give up a lot of picks and then sign Cousins to a massive deal.




apparently the cowboys get the #2 pick out of it.


----------



## Bonzai12

Blackhawkswincup said:


> Talk of Mahomes at Bears 2nd round pick has been around lately




Mahomes won't last until the 2nd. Some team will trade up (could be the Bears) so that they can have the 5th year option. It'd be silly for them to wait until the 3rd pick in the second and only get 4 years from him.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I'm hoping one of the QB's are still there at 31 so ATL can offer the pick to a team that needs a QB.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Bonzai12 said:


> Mahomes won't last until the 2nd. Some team will trade up (could be the Bears) so that they can have the 5th year option. It'd be silly for them to wait until the 3rd pick in the second and only get 4 years from him.




Yup.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## Gene Parmesan

That's real bad for Foster.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Chris Godwin is going to be a top 50 pick.


----------



## End of Line

spintheblackcircle said:


>





And now he'll plummet down the board.


----------



## Tony Romo

Gene Parmesan said:


> Chris Godwin is going to be a top 50 pick.




I wanted him to be there at the cowboys second.... well now nope.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Receivers are way faster than last year.


----------



## GKJ

Gene Parmesan said:


> Receivers are way faster than last year.




Bodes well for these great corners who have been covering them all year.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

The DB's are the best group. So many good players.


----------



## Tony Romo

Wonder what John Ross is gonna run. Sucks Mike Williams/Corey Davis can't run though.


Malik Hooker measureable sweet jesus.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

John Ross just blazed a 4.22


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Curtis Samuel 4.31, only other sub 4.4 for the WR's


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I hope the Falcons get Forrest Lamp in the 1st round, but given how well he did in the drills yesterday, that may not happen. They need guards and he looks to be a really good one.


----------



## six sigma

Gene Parmesan said:


> John Ross just blazed a 4.22




Think he'll go mid-first round?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

six sigma said:


> Think he'll go mid-first round?




Philly.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

TE Evan Ingram just ran a 4.43. Wow.


----------



## Carolinas Identity*

spintheblackcircle said:


> I hope the Falcons get Forrest Lamp in the 1st round, but given how well he did in the drills yesterday, that may not happen. They need guards and he looks to be a really good one.




I understand 100% why Tackles are obviously so important, but I've never gotten why Guards are thought of so little


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Carolinas Identity said:


> I understand 100% why Tackles are obviously so important, but I've never gotten why Guards are thought of so little




They aren't.


----------



## Bonzai12

This TE class is loaded

Probably the player that most intrigues me out of this entire draft is TE Adam Shaheen


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Bonzai12 said:


> This TE class is loaded
> 
> Probably the player that most intrigues me out of this entire draft is TE Adam Shaheen




I heard the scouts say that today as well. With Bennett a UFA, can't you see the Pats ending up with another stud TE?


----------



## Bonzai12

spintheblackcircle said:


> I heard the scouts say that today as well. With Bennett a UFA, can't you see the Pats ending up with another stud TE?




not too familiar with the Pats needs but I could see them getting Aaron Hernandez's replacement here, yeah...

check out Shaheen - dude is Mini-Gronk (I say that in skill level, but he might be bigger than Gronk in size)


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Evan Engram is like Hitmandez without the gang ties. He's a 1st rounder. I could see 3 go in the 1st round.


----------



## rangerssharks414

I read that Dalvin Cook had an awful combine. 9th percentile in the SPARQ score (or whatever it's called) is horrible.

Edit: I know that doesn't doom his NFL career, but doesn't that measure athleticism?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He looked a little out of shape to me.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Myles Garrett 4.64 with a 1.65 10 yard.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Jonathan Allen has had a bad day.


----------



## ecemleafs

Gene Parmesan said:


> Chris Godwin is going to be a top 50 pick.




big time rose bowl and a surprising 40 time will do it. didnt think he had that sort of speed.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Good size, good hands, strong and wins 50/50's.


----------



## ecemleafs

Gene Parmesan said:


> Good size, good hands, strong and wins 50/50's.




yeah hes a big guy and seems to catch anything that comes near him. really didnt expect such a low 40 time though. he must have worked very hard the past 2 months to improve his speed.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He plays fast. That's what ultimately matters most.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Lol Peppers is a better athlete than football player. Zero ball production. Overrated.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

A lot of fast backers.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

McMillan at 6'2'' 240 ran a 4.61 to go with 23 reps. 3rd fastest, 3rd most reps.


----------



## Carolinas Identity*

Gene Parmesan said:


> They aren't.




Other than Chance Warmack, name me a Guard who was drafted in the top 10 in the past decade+? Maybe I am an idiot and am missing some guys, but no one I can think of off the top of my head.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Carolinas Identity said:


> Other than Chance Warmack, name me a Guard who was drafted in the top 10 in the past decade+? Maybe I am an idiot and am missing some guys, but no one I can think of off the top of my head.




Brandon Scherff went #5 two years ago.


----------



## Riggins

Solomon Thomas, worth a high pick?


----------



## m9

Gene Parmesan said:


> Brandon Scherff went #5 two years ago.




Jonathan Cooper as well.


----------



## six sigma

As far as I'm concerned, Schneider can just draft all the ex-Huskies aside from Ross and call it a day.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

T.J. Watt is an impressive athlete.


----------



## rangerssharks414

Riggins said:


> Solomon Thomas, worth a high pick?




I think he is.


----------



## Avs_19

Just catching up on what Garrett did today. What a freak. I thought he came off well in his combine presser as well.


----------



## ShootIt

I've watched Hendrickson(DE) play, local college, and his combine definitely helped his stock. 

While I'm not sure of his ceiling, he definitely played well in a smaller conference and had a good showing in the East-West game.


----------



## Tony Romo

these DB's got some great athleticism.


----------



## Tony Romo

Marshon Lattimore probably solidifies his top ten pick. Man I really wanted Fabian Moreau at cowboys second rounder. not happening.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Unreal athletes at DB.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Tape still matters most but Obi will be a top 32 player simply due to his measurables. Boom/bust pick.


----------



## Tony Romo

That time is probably gonna hurt Tabor.

Didn;t think Tankersley was gonna run that fast.


----------



## canucks10

Gene Parmesan said:


> Brandon Scherff went #5 two years ago.




Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't Scherff drafted as a tackle?


----------



## sjsharks92

canucks10 said:


> Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't Scherff drafted as a tackle?




Yes.

He was an OT in college and was listed as one coming out of the draft, but many figured his future might be at guard.


----------



## sjsharks92

McCaffrey did a lot to help himself this weekend. The bench press was abysmal, but it's not going to hurt his draft stock given what he did in far more important drills for RBs.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

canucks10 said:


> Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't Scherff drafted as a tackle?




Everyone pegged him as a guard.


----------



## sjsharks92

Gene Parmesan said:


> Everyone pegged him as a guard.




The Redskins had him as a tackle coming out of the draft. That's where he lined up in training camp. Only moved him to guard when they realized even Morgan Moses had more ability at RT.


----------



## What the Faulk

I'm not sure why anybody should care what a RB/WR can bench press.


----------



## sjsharks92

What the Faulk said:


> I'm not sure why anybody should care what a RB/WR can bench press.




That's my thinking too. The only thing it might possibly affect is their ability to pass block, but even then I think that comes more from the legs.


----------



## m9

Bench press isn't a huge deal for WR's, but it can show their ability to beat press coverage.


----------



## Carolinas Identity*

Gene Parmesan said:


> Brandon Scherff went #5 two years ago.




You got me Gene, I humbly bow to your football godliness


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Kevin King is a guy that will get 1st round consideration but is fools gold. He looks stiff and struggles in press on tape but tested well. Budda and Sidney Jones are solid are 1st rounders though.


----------



## six sigma

Gene Parmesan said:


> Kevin King is a guy that will get 1st round consideration but is fools gold. He looks stiff and struggles in press on tape but tested well. Budda and Sidney Jones are solid are 1st rounders though.




Most people probably assume that SEA will throw picks at the o-line, but it's these guys I want to see in the first two rounds. 

The Hawks already had three rookie O-line last year, adding more won't necessarily improve things. Add a vet FA or two instead and let the group stick together awhile.


----------



## MurrayBannerman

I don't know why, but everyone is mocking Jonathan Allen to the 49ers.


----------



## sjsharks92

MurrayBannerman said:


> I don't know why, but everyone is mocking Jonathan Allen to the 49ers.




Even though they've taken Armstead and Buckner with each of their last first round picks, they still could use him on the D-line, especially if Armstead can stick as a DT. 

I think the other issue is that there really isn't anyone worth reaching for with that 2nd pick. The Niners most obvious needs are QB, WR, LB, and CB. In a perfect world they could trade back and grab a guy like Reuben Foster (though his draft stock likely took a hit), or Mike Williams, or even Marshon Lattimore. QB is the worst thing they could do if you ask me.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Don't want Allen. Trade out of the pick if the Browns take Garrett. They need talent on offense and at LB. I'm also on the Watson train because they currently have no QBs on the roster and he's everything you want.


----------



## sjsharks92

Gene Parmesan said:


> Don't want Allen. Trade out of the pick if the Browns take Garrett. They need talent on offense and at LB. I'm also on the Watson train because they currently have no QBs on the roster and he's everything you want.




I agree that trading back is the right decision. However if they can't I think Allen is a fine pick. If the Niners do take a QB though I hope it's Watson. Been on board with him since the National Championship game.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

Do you guys think Hooker at #3 is too high?

Bears need S help and with no QB worthy of #3 selection that leaves Hooker as possible pick


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Its not but he's hurt.


----------



## Tony Romo

Mixon ran a 4.43. Damn.


----------



## What the Faulk

I'm getting real ****ing sick of this coordinated campaign to sell Mixon like he wasn't caught on camera literally breaking a woman's face.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Yeah Mixon is like Tyreek Hill to me. Both tremendous talents but complete dirtbags who have shown little remorse.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

What the Faulk said:


> I'm getting real ****ing sick of this coordinated campaign to sell Mixon like he wasn't caught on camera literally breaking a woman's face.




....that's sarcasm, right? That's all they say when it comes to Mixon.


----------



## What the Faulk

spintheblackcircle said:


> ....that's sarcasm, right? That's all they say when it comes to Mixon.




I don't care if he ran a 4.2. He deserves to go undrafted.

And it should be pretty obvious that I'm not just referring to that post.


----------



## sjsharks92

What the Faulk said:


> I don't care if he ran a 4.2. He deserves to go undrafted.
> 
> And it should be pretty obvious that I'm not just referring to that post.




Mixon's a trash human. But we all know he's going to be drafted. It's too bad that that's the way the world works, but it is.


----------



## sjsharks92

Gene Parmesan said:


> Yeah Mixon is like Tyreek Hill to me. Both tremendous talents but complete dirtbags who have shown little remorse.




I had no idea about the Tyreek Hill thing until like week 16. Here I was rooting for him thinking he was a great story having come out of nowhere and low and behold he's just another pile of human garbage playing in the NFL.


----------



## What the Faulk

sjsharks92 said:


> Mixon's a trash human. But we all know he's going to be drafted. It's too bad that that's the way the world works, but it is.




Yeah, he likely will. He already met with the Saints, Lions, Browns, and Bengals. I just find it really annoying how much coverage he's getting from PFT, and Schefter, and SI, etc. If he was truly remorseful (such as, purportedly, Ray Rice) or just carved out a role without initial fanfare like Hill, that's one thing. But the campaigning is really gross.



sjsharks92 said:


> I had no idea about the Tyreek Hill thing until like week 16. Here I was rooting for him thinking he was a great story having come out of nowhere and low and behold he's just another pile of human garbage playing in the NFL.




Same.


----------



## sjsharks92

What the Faulk said:


> Yeah, he likely will. He already met with the Saints, Lions, Browns, and Bengals. I just find it really annoying how much coverage he's getting from PFT, and Schefter, and SI, etc. If he was truly remorseful (such as, purportedly, Ray Rice) or just carved out a role without initial fanfare like Hill, that's one thing. But the campaigning is really gross.
> 
> 
> 
> Same.




The peddling for him has been gross. Hearing people talk about his game and acting like him punching a woman is just a small part of who he is is just ridiculous. I really don't understand how he's gotten such an obvious pass for this.

And yes, his lack of remorse on top of all of it makes it even worse. Acting as if the woman was equally responsible for the incident. Give me a break.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Tyreek Hill was probably a 1st round pick/Heisman contender at Oklahoma State. Gundy immediately threw him off the team and he was kicked out of school. Pretty much the opposite of how some schools have handled this stuff.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

sjsharks92 said:


> The peddling for him has been gross. Hearing people talk about his game and acting like him punching a woman is just a small part of who he is is just ridiculous. I really don't understand how he's gotten such an obvious pass for this.
> 
> And yes, his lack of remorse on top of all of it makes it even worse. Acting as if the woman was equally responsible for the incident. Give me a break.




He was called racial slurs and hit in the face by her TWICE before he hit her. She is more responsible for it than he was. If he never hit back, she would have been arrested. But because he did, she suddenly didn't break the law first? And second!? 

Hitting a man and hitting a woman is the exact same action, but somehow, one has a larger legal penalty.

But shooting a man and shooting a woman is the exact same action and are penalized by the law the same way. 

If we want people treated the same under the law, this makes no sense.


----------



## What the Faulk

spintheblackcircle said:


> He was called racial slurs and hit in the face by her TWICE before he hit her. She is more responsible for it than he was. If he never hit back, she would have been arrested. But because he did, she suddenly didn't break the law first? And second!?
> 
> Hitting a man and hitting a woman is the exact same action, but somehow, one has a larger legal penalty.
> 
> But shooting a man and shooting a woman is the exact same action and are penalized by the law the same way.
> 
> If we want people treated the same under the law, this makes no sense.




Someone needs to brush up on exactly what happened and stop getting enamored with his talent. You're too transparent.

Here:



You should be embarrassed by that post.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I saw what happened last year when it first took place before they took the video down until after the trial.

I have no problem with him being arrested and this being on his record, it's clear he broke the law. I have no problem with him being suspended for the year or whatever other punishments the school placed on him. I don't care about his talent.

I care that someone who assaulted someone twice before being struck wasn't charged and is being treated as an innocent.


----------



## sjsharks92

spintheblackcircle said:


> He was called racial slurs and hit in the face by her TWICE before he hit her. She is more responsible for it than he was. If he never hit back, she would have been arrested. But because he did, she suddenly didn't break the law first? And second!?
> 
> Hitting a man and hitting a woman is the exact same action, but somehow, one has a larger legal penalty.
> 
> But shooting a man and shooting a woman is the exact same action and are penalized by the law the same way.
> 
> If we want people treated the same under the law, this makes no sense.




Wow. Just.....

 

I'm speechless. So many things in this post that baffle me.

Not to be all high and mighty, but what would your wife, or girlfriend, or sister, or mother think of this opinion?


----------



## spintheblackcircle

sjsharks92 said:


> Wow. Just.....
> 
> 
> 
> I'm speechless. So many things in this post that baffle me.
> 
> Not to be all high and mighty, but what would your wife, or girlfriend, or sister, or mother think of this opinion?




"Don't hit anyone first, that always puts you in the wrong." That's what she said when she saw the video.


----------



## sjsharks92

If you had come in here and said you think he deserves a second chance and that one night shouldn't define him, that's fine. If you had said that he's a young kid who has plenty of time to learn from this and fix himself I'd say that's fair.

But to say she is "more responsible for it than he was" is simply stunning. To act as if a woman pushing a man should be treated the same as a man punching and breaking a woman's jaw is jaw-dropping, no pun intended. There is a pretty obvious reason why in a case like this why Mixon is at fault and the woman is the victim.


----------



## sjsharks92

spintheblackcircle said:


> "Don't hit anyone first, that always puts you in the wrong." That's what she said when she saw the video.




Mmmhmmm.

Good on Mixon for defending himself against this vicious and threatening assailant.

Am I doing this right?


----------



## spintheblackcircle

As I said, he should have been arrested, and he was. Never said "he was in the right". He's not a victim.


----------



## What the Faulk

spintheblackcircle said:


> I saw what happened last year when it first took place before they took the video down until after the trial.
> 
> I have no problem with him being arrested and this being on his record, it's clear he broke the law. I have no problem with him being suspended for the year or whatever other punishments the school placed on him. I don't care about his talent.
> 
> I care that someone who assaulted someone twice before being struck wasn't charged and is being treated as an innocent.




He literally followed her to the restaurant in order to continue harassing her. Her first point of contact was a shove. He was looking for a reason to retaliate. Is she innocent? Sure, maybe not. Maybe she reacted emotionally to him using a derogatory term for her gay friend, or however the story goes. But to suggest that they are on the same level, or one deserves the other, or whatever the **** it is you're trying to say is so laughable it's stupid. Go punch a boxer and have them strike back and tell me that you're even now.


----------



## sjsharks92

What the Faulk said:


> He literally followed her to the restaurant in order to continue harassing her. Her first point of contact was a shove. He was looking for a reason.




Also worth pointing out that he was apparently shouting gay slurs at her male friend. 

How anyone can view this case from a "she was more responsible than he was" point of view is sheer idiocy.


----------



## Carolinas Identity*

I hate to admit it, but I kinda agree with Spin on this one. Home boy is a dirt bag, but it's not like he was just _"MIXON SMASH!!_ He was pretty clearly provoked.


----------



## What the Faulk

Home boy also doesn't get to dole out his own justice in the form of an eye for an eye. He's literally twice her size.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I get it, I do. If I saw a man and woman throwing punches, I wouldn't go and tackle the woman....I'd tackle the man. You want to protect the smaller person, that just an instinct.

And he was arrested, charged and pled for his crime. His WAS a criminal act.


----------



## Hasbro

What the Faulk said:


> I'm getting real ****ing sick of this coordinated campaign to sell Mixon like he wasn't caught on camera literally breaking a woman's face.



And he was stupid enough to declare the same year that went public. If he had any sense he would have staying in school another year and let it die down.



Gene Parmesan said:


> Yeah Mixon is like Tyreek Hill to me. Both tremendous talents but complete dirtbags who have shown little remorse.




He's getting into the Lawrence Phillips/Maurie Carrett territory for me.


----------



## sjsharks92

Carolinas Identity said:


> I hate to admit it, but I kinda agree with Spin on this one. Home boy is a dirt bag, but it's not like he was just _"MIXON SMASH!!_ He was pretty clearly provoked.




He was provoked? How about that he had been provoking the woman and her male friend all night? I'm not excusing her for pushing him and getting in his face, but this isn't a chicken or the egg thing. That woman doesn't get in his face if he's not following them around all night and yelling gay slurs at her friend.


----------



## m9

spintheblackcircle said:


> ....that's sarcasm, right? That's all they say when it comes to Mixon.




I agree with this. Everywhere I read or hear about Mixon, this gets brought up. As it should to some extent, as it clarifies his draft position and that is what is being discussed.

He wasn't allowed to go to the combine and there will certainly be some teams that take him off their board completely. He has been and will continue to be punished for what he did.


----------



## Carolinas Identity*

sjsharks92 said:


> He was provoked? How about that he had been provoking the woman and her male friend all night? I'm not excusing her for pushing him and getting in his face, but this isn't a chicken or the egg thing. That woman doesn't get in his face if he's not following them around all night and yelling gay slurs at her friend.




agree to disagree


----------



## Big Poppa Puck

Meh. I'm fine with Mixon getting drafted and a 2nd chance. He was arrested and it's clearly going to affect his draft stock and follow him around his whole career, he already wasn't invited to the combine. I'm not blackballing the guy from the league because of a mistake. If he does it again or becomes Greg Hardy, then it's time to start thinking about blackballing.

If the guy can play and stays out of trouble I'd take a chance on him. At the same time if I'm in a position in the draft where my choices are Mixon and a guy with equal talent who's a better person and less of risk I'm taking the ladder.

Worse people have played professional sports and have been given 2nd chances.


If Ray Rice wasn't aging, declining and playing a devalued position I'm sure he would've gotten picked up again.


----------



## le_sean

spintheblackcircle said:


> He was called racial slurs and hit in the face by her TWICE before he hit her. She is more responsible for it than he was. If he never hit back, she would have been arrested. But because he did, she suddenly didn't break the law first? And second!?
> 
> Hitting a man and hitting a woman is the exact same action, but somehow, one has a larger legal penalty.
> 
> But shooting a man and shooting a woman is the exact same action and are penalized by the law the same way.
> 
> If we want people treated the same under the law, this makes no sense.




This is probably the most ridiculous thing I've read. 

A gun is a gun, doesn't matter what sex you are when a bullet hits you. A football player hitting a woman is like me retaliating with a sledgehammer after you pinch me. 

He's a piece of ****.

And this nonsense of the same law for everyone. We've been treating women like second class citizens for thousands of years. It's 2017 and they still make less money than men. So stop with this fake righteous garbage like somehow men are the victims.


----------



## What the Faulk

Big Poppa Puck said:


> Meh. I'm fine with Mixon getting drafted and a 2nd chance. He was arrested and it's clearly going to affect his draft stock and follow him around his whole career, he already wasn't invited to the combine. I'm not blackballing the guy from the league because of a mistake. If he does it again or becomes Greg Hardy, then it's time to start thinking about blackballing.
> 
> If the guy can play and stays out of trouble I'd take a chance on him. At the same time if I'm in a position in the draft where my choices are Mixon and a guy with equal talent who's a better person and less of risk I'm taking the ladder.
> 
> Worse people have played professional sports and have been given 2nd chances.
> 
> 
> If Ray Rice wasn't aging, declining and playing a devalued position I'm sure he would've gotten picked up again.




Ray Rice showed a ton of remorse and tried to make it right. Not only has Mixon not shown any, he had that run in with the parking attendant the following year.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Jordan Evans probably had the best pro day out of all the Sooners. Combine snub but he fits where the NFL is heading at LB.


----------



## sjsharks92

Carolinas Identity said:


> agree to disagree




What do you disagree with? That he had provoked her first? Or that she instigated the incident after getting fed up with him trolling them all night.


----------



## sjsharks92

le_sean said:


> This is probably the most ridiculous thing I've read.
> 
> A gun is a gun, doesn't matter what sex you are when a bullet hits you. *A football player hitting a woman is like me retaliating with a sledgehammer after you pinch me. *
> 
> He's a piece of ****.
> 
> And this nonsense of the same law for everyone. We've been treating women like second class citizens for thousands of years. It's 2017 and they still make less money than men. So stop with this fake righteous garbage like somehow men are the victims.




Precisely. Particularly the bolded part. Not sure what there is to misunderstand about this.


----------



## Malmo




----------



## What the Faulk

Is that an admission or a judgment?


----------



## InjuredChoker

Dane Brugler‏Verified account @dpbrugler 20m20 minutes ago
Ball velocity numbers (MPH) from the Combine:

60 - Mahomes
59 - Webb
56 - Kizer
55 - Trubisky, Evans
53 - Peterman, Kaaya
49 - Watson


----------



## Gene Parmesan

No idea why QB's don't just let it rip like Mahomes and Webb.


----------



## six sigma

Apparently, CB Sidney Jones injured himself at the UW pro day today. Fell over during a backpedal drill and got carted off. ****ing brutal.

Edit: sounds like it's a torn achilles.


----------



## TNT87

six sigma said:


> Apparently, CB Sidney Jones injured himself at the UW pro day today. Fell over during a backpedal drill and got carted off. ****ing brutal.
> 
> Edit: sounds like it's a torn achilles.




Awful news for him.


----------



## MMC

How do Bosa and Garrett compare?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Garrett is superior.


----------



## rangerssharks414

six sigma said:


> Apparently, CB Sidney Jones injured himself at the UW pro day today. Fell over during a backpedal drill and got carted off. ****ing brutal.
> 
> Edit: sounds like it's a torn achilles.




Ugh, that really sucks.


----------



## MMC

Gene Parmesan said:


> Garrett is superior.




Yes, but by how much?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

mymerlincat said:


> Yes, but by how much?




Garrett is pretty special as a prospect.


----------



## Alex Jones

six sigma said:


> Apparently, CB Sidney Jones injured himself at the UW pro day today. Fell over during a backpedal drill and got carted off. ****ing brutal.
> 
> Edit: sounds like it's a torn achilles.




I would be very down for another Jaylon Smith type situation here.


----------



## Alex Jones

In reality the Cowboys need three corners and a big time pass rusher. That said, I would give a kidney for oj Howard to be a cowboy next year.


----------



## Carolinas Identity*

How do you feel about Bolles Gene? I was kinda surprised he fell to the 2nd round in the mock draft tbh.


----------



## sjsharks92

Carolinas Identity said:


> How do you feel about Bolles Gene? I was kinda surprised he fell to the 2nd round in the mock draft tbh.




Think that was more a function of nobody taking an OT except for Carolina. I sincerely doubt Robinson will be the only OT taken in round 1, but I guess we'll have to see.


----------



## Bonzai12

sjsharks92 said:


> I sincerely doubt Robinson will be the only OT taken in round 1, but I guess we'll have to see.




100% agree - OL I guess just isn't sexy enough in these types of things. But I think you'll see at least 2-3 go in the actual draft


----------



## What the Faulk

The Giants took Ramczyk too. Bolles would have been on my radar had I not traded up.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Bolles is my fave tackle


----------



## ShootIt

Alex Jones said:


> I would be very down for another Jaylon Smith type situation here.




Just don't take him in day 2. Can't take anymore round 2 risks on redshirt players



Alex Jones said:


> In reality the Cowboys need three corners and a big time pass rusher. That said, I would give a kidney for oj Howard to be a cowboy next year.




Well, I'm ok with Brown on one side. Then Scandrick is ok for the slot(if actually healthy). Carroll to me is a dime corner and nothing more. 

I can't see Howard falling to #28, but if he did I agree you take him. 

Ideally anyone of Watt, McKinley(shoulder ftl), Harris(crap combine tho) or a corner would be solid for round 1.


----------



## Hasbro

You have to imagine Goddell is exerting massive pressure on the league not to draft Joe Mixon. There's no way he wants the Ray Rice mess to come up again Which given the case of La'el Collins last year just being questioned regarding a murder you have to think will happen. 

I think Goddell will be gone at the expiration of his contract, but if someone does pick Mixon it would be a confirmation of that, although a distasteful one.


----------



## Live in the Now

Joe Mixon will be picked and will be picked high. He did not hit his wife or girlfriend.


----------



## MurrayBannerman

That matters?


----------



## sjsharks92

Live in the Now said:


> Joe Mixon will be picked and will be picked high. He did not hit his wife or girlfriend.




Care to explain what you're trying to say?


----------



## What the Faulk

Teams won't care because he hit a stranger. AKA, it's not domestic violence. I'm not sure I agree considering how violent the video is, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me that much.


----------



## Live in the Now

He was also hit first. There will be a lot of teams that give him a pass for that.


----------



## Avs_19

There's zero excuse for what he did but teams will find one since he can play. Reminds me of this from two years ago:



Unfortunately, it sounds like Mixon is going to go pretty high. Maybe even as high as the 2nd round.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## Avs_19

He's the type of athlete Zimmer would love to work with but he'll probably be gone by the time they pick. Apparently there's a lot of questions about his work ethic and play last season but some team likely takes him in the first 40 picks or so.


----------



## What the Faulk

spintheblackcircle said:


>





Joe Mixon is on camera literally breaking a woman's face half his size because he got slapped (after stalking her and harassing her friend). His pro day must have gone better. I honestly don't know much about Cook's history, but if it's perceived as "worse", then neither deserve to become millionaires.

No idea how the NFL can seriously pretend to care about violence against women.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

What the Faulk said:


> Joe Mixon is on camera literally breaking a woman's face half his size because he got slapped (after stalking her and harassing her friend)..




You mean after the racial comments they made to Mixon and his friend?


----------



## What the Faulk

Completely ****ing irrelevant and hearsay at best. What we do know is that he said something to her friend which caused her to slap him and he knocked her the **** out. That alone is abhorrent.

The fact that you continue to carry water for him is so weird.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I don't think carrying water is the right term. 

And trust me, I think it's ****ed up that GM's would think having Kaepernick on their team would be "worse" than Mixon.


----------



## sjsharks92

spintheblackcircle said:


> You mean after the racial comments they made to Mixon and his friend?




Which as Faulk said, is irrelevant but also occurred after Mixon and his friends had been calling the girl a ****** and her friend a f*ggot all night


----------



## sjsharks92

What the Faulk said:


> No idea how the NFL can seriously pretend to care about violence against women.




It's a joke. There whole stance with women is just pathetic.

The fact that they try to play off breast cancer awareness month as anything more than a PR stunt for themselves is a joke. If they cared even a little bit about breast cancer they'd 

A) donate a whole lot more than what they do to the cause

and 

B) let players wear pink year round if they so choose (ie DeAngelo Williams)


----------



## spintheblackcircle

sjsharks92 said:


> Which as Faulk said, is irrelevant but also occurred after Mixon and his friends had been calling the girl a ****** and her friend a f*ggot all night




That's not what he says.

He admitted to using that slur and I believe he did. But in was in response to the racial slurs, and he apologized for using the words. Neither she nor her friend admitted to the racial slurs and I don't believe them. 

He admitted to, accepted punishment and apologized for everything he did.


----------



## sjsharks92

spintheblackcircle said:


> That's not what he says.
> 
> He admitted to using that slur and I believe he did. But in was in response to the racial slurs, and he apologized for using the words. Neither she nor her friend admitted to the racial slurs and I don't believe them.
> 
> He admitted to, accepted punishment and apologized for everything he did.




I'm just baffled I guess that people don't seem to understand that a guy Mixon's size can't be punching women because they were slapped. There is no feasible explanation that could even come close to justifying what he did. None whatsoever. Not even a little bit.

You don't have to trust the girl or her friend. Because even if they did use said slur on him, it doesn't mean he gets to punch her.

Sure he's apologized for what was very clearly an incident he created. LOL, good on him for admitting to having done something that was caught on tape! He's shown virtually no remorse for what he did beyond a mere statement. 

He's gonna get drafted. I just hope the young man has learned from this and isn't just saying the bare minimum to collect a paycheck.


----------



## What the Faulk

spintheblackcircle said:


> That's not what he says.
> 
> He admitted to using that slur and I believe he did. But in was in response to the racial slurs, and he apologized for using the words. Neither she nor her friend admitted to the racial slurs and I don't believe them.
> 
> He admitted to, accepted punishment and apologized for everything he did.




Beyond the fact that you don't believe her because reasons, did he admit guilt or did he enter an Alford plea? And when did he apologize? When he did it, during/after the trial, or only when the video came out? If you guessed the latter, you'd be correct. 

Dude seems like a changed man. For sure.


----------



## What the Faulk

sjsharks92 said:


> It's a joke. There whole stance with women is just pathetic.
> 
> The fact that they try to play off breast cancer awareness month as anything more than a PR stunt for themselves is a joke. If they cared even a little bit about breast cancer they'd
> 
> A) donate a whole lot more than what they do to the cause
> 
> and
> 
> B) let players wear pink year round if they so choose (ie DeAngelo Williams)




Everything is seen through the eyes of the dollar. Every decision made is "how can this benefit us?"


----------



## sjsharks92

What the Faulk said:


> Beyond the fact that you don't believe her because reasons, did he admit guilt or did he enter an Alford plea? And when did he apologize? When he did it, during/after the trial, or only when the video came out? If you guessed the latter, you'd be correct.
> 
> Dude seems like a changed man. For sure.




 

Oh yea. This is a man whose learned a lesson.

But hey, he said he apologizes for this incident too and also accepts the consequences. All is good!


----------



## Hasbro

On top of all that, I think Goddell will suspend Mixon to start the season.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Hasbro said:


> On top of all that, I think Goddell will suspend Mixon to start the season.




If so, I would think he would have to say this before the draft. 

But I wonder about Cook. Misdemeanor battery charge against a woman, robbery charge, violation of animal care are in his past. Maybe Mixon said the right things in interviews and Cook didn't?


----------



## Hasbro

spintheblackcircle said:


> If so, I would think he would have to say this before the draft.
> ?



Raj is no stranger to making up the rules as he goes along.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

spintheblackcircle said:


> If so, I would think he would have to say this before the draft.
> 
> But I wonder about Cook. Misdemeanor battery charge against a woman, robbery charge, violation of animal care are in his past. Maybe Mixon said the right things in interviews and Cook didn't?




Or Cook has a longer history.


----------



## m9

Hasbro said:


> On top of all that, I think Goddell will suspend Mixon to start the season.




He's not getting suspended for things that happened well before he was in the NFL.


----------



## m9

sjsharks92 said:


> It's a joke. There whole stance with women is just pathetic.
> 
> The fact that they try to play off breast cancer awareness month as anything more than a PR stunt for themselves is a joke. If they cared even a little bit about breast cancer they'd
> 
> A) donate a whole lot more than what they do to the cause
> 
> and
> 
> B) let players wear pink year round if they so choose (ie DeAngelo Williams)




What would donating more money do? First, they already do a ton for charity. Second, whatever number they did some people would still complain it's not enough.


----------



## Hasbro

m9 said:


> He's not getting suspended for things that happened well before he was in the NFL.




A) This is Godell we're talking about, he gets off on suspending players.

B) we've already seen him take legally untenable position in this regard when under pressure when he suspended Ray Rice a second time when the elevator tape surfaced.


----------



## What the Faulk

m9 said:


> What would donating more money do? First, they already do a ton for charity. Second, whatever number they did some people would still complain it's not enough.




http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/10/26/nfl-breast-cancer-month-deangelo-williams

http://deadspin.com/no-more-the-nfls-domestic-violence-partner-is-a-sham-1683348576

Not really. Also lol at "what would more money do" when talking about donations to charity.


----------



## m9

Hasbro said:


> A) This is Godell we're talking about, he gets off on suspending players.
> 
> B) we've already seen him take legally untenable position in this regard when under pressure when he suspended Ray Rice a second time when the elevator tape surfaced.




Has he suspended players for things they've done years prior to being in the NFL?


----------



## m9

What the Faulk said:


> http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/10/26/nfl-breast-cancer-month-deangelo-williams
> 
> http://deadspin.com/no-more-the-nfls-domestic-violence-partner-is-a-sham-1683348576
> 
> Not really. Also lol at "what would more money do" when talking about donations to charity.




As in 'what would more money do' for people who whine about how much businesses donate. Whatever the amount is, whiners will never think it's enough. The entitlement to other people's money is very strange.


----------



## What the Faulk

What ****ing entitlement? We're talking about donations to charity (REAL help, not this self beneficial BS), not handouts to fans. JFC.


----------



## m9

What the Faulk said:


> What ****ing entitlement? We're talking about donations to charity (REAL help, not this self beneficial BS), not handouts to fans. JFC.




So you don't think the NFL does a lot for charity? I'm sure there are lots of companies that do more, and lots that do less.


----------



## What the Faulk

I think they could begin by fixing what they are currently doing and stop being so self-serving, yes. The cleats for a cause (or whatever it was called) was a good start.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I gotta be honest, given that NFL players are charged with domestic violence at half the rate of the national average, it's nothing but lip service. It's not an issue. NFL players are MUCH less likely to commit DV. All the NFL wants to do is look good on an issue.....that isn't an issue.

...and they can't even get THAT right.


----------



## What the Faulk

You mean to tell me that millionaires don't typically commit violent crimes at a higher rate than the general population? This is my shocked face -> 

This isn't really the point, though. After Rice, the NFL adopted it as a cause.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

What the Faulk said:


> This isn't really the point, though. After Rice, the NFL adopted it as a cause.




Oh I know, because they thought it would be an easy 'win' for PR. And it clearly wasn't.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## Hasbro

m9 said:


> Has he suspended players for things they've done years prior to being in the NFL?




Once he gets some heat he'll try and find a way to cover his ass.


----------



## m9

What the Faulk said:


> I think they could begin by fixing what they are currently doing and stop being so self-serving, yes. The cleats for a cause (or whatever it was called) was a good start.




That's fair. But when it comes out that the cleats generate $500,000 and only $100,000 goes to the actual cause.. are we going to complain about the $400,000 or are we going to be happy about the $100,000? That is kind of my point, when you do something good people will always expect you to do more. 

As for the pink equipment part, there is something to be said for the awareness aspect. I wouldn't have thought dumping buckets of water would do anything for ALS, but it did. I'm sure that every kid that watches the NFL or plays Madden knows what the colour represents and I do think there's value in that.


----------



## m9

Hasbro said:


> Once he gets some heat he'll try and find a way to cover his ass.




So.. no?

I actually saw last night that there is some talk that Mixon makes it into the bottom of the 1st round. I'll believe it when I see it. 

I'm sure I say this every year, but this draft is shaping up to be very interesting with some of these side-stories.


----------



## What the Faulk

m9 said:


> That's fair. But when it comes out that the cleats generate $500,000 and only $100,000 goes to the actual cause.. are we going to complain about the $400,000 or are we going to be happy about the $100,000? That is kind of my point, when you do something good people will always expect you to do more.
> 
> As for the pink equipment part, there is something to be said for the awareness aspect. I wouldn't have thought dumping buckets of water would do anything for ALS, but it did. I'm sure that every kid that watches the NFL or plays Madden knows what the colour represents and I do think there's value in that.




It entirely depends on how that $400k is spent. If you're _raising_ money and keeping 4/5 of it, that isn't charity.


----------



## Bonzai12

That's just doing due diligence on where you spend your charity money. 

I personally do not donate to huge organizations like the koemen foundation - way too much overhead. But if that's where the NFL wants to throw their bucks to look good, that's their perogotive.


----------



## m9

Bonzai12 said:


> That's just doing due diligence on where you spend your charity money.
> 
> I personally do not donate to huge organizations like the koemen foundation - way too much overhead. But if that's where the NFL wants to throw their bucks to look good, that's their perogotive.




Agreed.


----------



## John Price

GM Street Mike Lombardi episode from The Ringer NFL podcast has a few good tidbits on prospects where Mike says that Trubisky isn't that good (he isn't) and that Peppers is a red flag 

Would recommend a listen


----------



## member 157595

G F O P said:


> GM Street Mike Lombardi episode from The Ringer NFL podcast has a few good tidbits on prospects where Mike says that Trubisky isn't that good (he isn't) and that Peppers is a red flag
> 
> Would recommend a listen




I really don't like any of the QB's in the draft that much. Next year looks way better.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Hence what every fan says about every QB class.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I would much rather draft a Chad Kelly or Josh Dobbs in the 4th or 5th and address my other needs in the first 3 rounds than draft one of the "1st round guys".


----------



## m9

Gene Parmesan said:


> Hence what every fan says about every QB class.




Pretty much. 

If Trubisky held off and was coming out next year instead, he would be one of the QBs everyone pointed to that was worth waiting for.


----------



## rangerssharks414

Gene Parmesan said:


> Hence what every fan says about every QB class.




I was gonna say... people around this time last year were saying that 2017 was the year to get a QB. Now, people are saying it's 2018.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

m9 said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> If Trubisky held off and was coming out next year instead, he would be one of the QBs everyone pointed to that was worth waiting for.




Trubisky is Andy Dalton 2.0


----------



## Bonzai12

Is being Andy Dalton a horrible thing or a good thing?

I'd take Andy Dalton over the Broncos situation right now for sure.


----------



## Hasbro

Bonzai12 said:


> Is being Andy Dalton a horrible thing or a good thing?




He's a ginger...


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Bonzai12 said:


> Is being Andy Dalton a horrible thing or a good thing?
> 
> I'd take Andy Dalton over the Broncos situation right now for sure.




Sometimes its good and sometimes its not


----------



## m9

Gene Parmesan said:


> Trubisky is Andy Dalton 2.0




Yeah, I kind of thought of Trubisky as a poor man's Luck.. which is pretty much what Dalton is. 

I do think there's upside there with Trubisky, though. It's tough because he's not ready to play right away, but he needs game reps more than anybody. 

I'm sure it will settle down in the next few weeks, but I find this QB class so interesting. Each of the top three guys has some great traits, but none put it all together. Seems like scouts are all over on the three, which makes sense as it just depends which traits you value more.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

I think Watson, Kiser, Mahomes and Trubisky are good QB prospects. They have NFL physical talent but it will all depend on where they land. I think Watson is the most ready to play. Similar to Mariota.


----------



## Bonzai12

Hasbro said:


> He's a ginger...




I'm a ginger - I was going to be a little offended if there was hate for my man Andy 

gotta stick up for my people, ya know?


----------



## Dominator13

I like watching the NFL network, but I can't stand their coverage of the draft. Mayok and Jeremiah always have the most moronic, non-logical mock drafts.

Mayok has Peppers as his n.1 safety over Adams and Hooker..


----------



## rangerssharks414

Pax Macioretty said:


> I like watching the NFL network, but I can't stand their coverage of the draft. Mayok and Jeremiah always have the most moronic, non-logical mock drafts.
> 
> Mayok has Peppers as his n.1 safety over Adams and Hooker..




Peppers is the most overrated player in the draft in my opinion. I don't care that he played a dozen different positions or whatever. He is too small and doesn't force turnovers.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He's a talented athlete. I think he needs to play offense.


----------



## member 157595

Gene Parmesan said:


> Hence what every fan says about every QB class.






m9 said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> If Trubisky held off and was coming out next year instead, he would be one of the QBs everyone pointed to that was worth waiting for.






rangerssharks414 said:


> I was gonna say... people around this time last year were saying that 2017 was the year to get a QB. Now, people are saying it's 2018.




Guys, I understand your point and there's merit to it. However, can you say with confidence that you like any of the guys in this draft as of right now to take them in the Top 10, for example? I'm not sure I can say that. Maybe I'm wrong but that's just how I see it.

Obviously, if a team really likes a QB they'll take him high and not wait for the chance of picking a guy in 2018.


----------



## member 157595

Pax Macioretty said:


> I like watching the NFL network, but I can't stand their coverage of the draft. Mayok and Jeremiah always have the most moronic, non-logical mock drafts.
> 
> Mayok has Peppers as his n.1 safety over Adams and Hooker..




That's completely ludicrous. Even if Peppers actually is forecast as a safety he's nowhere near the prospect those two are at that position.


----------



## Bonzai12

Has Mayock come out with his mock? He's usually pretty dead on with his picks. I saw his precombine picks but haven't seen his mock yet. Got a link?


----------



## m9

OmniCube said:


> Guys, I understand your point and there's merit to it. However, can you say with confidence that you like any of the guys in this draft as of right now to take them in the Top 10, for example? I'm not sure I can say that. Maybe I'm wrong but that's just how I see it.
> 
> Obviously, if a team really likes a QB they'll take him high and not wait for the chance of picking a guy in 2018.




I don't like any of the guys as much as I liked Winston two years back, but all of these guys are in the mix with Goff/Wentz last year. 

I don't know about top ten. I don't remember a draft year where there were so many top prospects at non-premium positions mixed with no clear QB order. How do you rank those two things vs each other? I guess it's somewhat similar to 2014 with Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater, and Carr. In 2011 there was Newton, Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder. I think it's similar this year. Do you take the 25% chance of grabbing your QB or go just go safe and pick BPA? 

So to answer the question, yes. Late top ten though. I think one will top five though.


----------



## m9

OmniCube said:


> That's completely ludicrous. Even if Peppers actually is forecast as a safety he's nowhere near the prospect those two are at that position.




Yeah, it's really odd. I'm fine with liking Peppers but ahead on those guys is crazy.


----------



## sjsharks92

rangerssharks414 said:


> Peppers is the most overrated player in the draft in my opinion. I don't care that he played a dozen different positions or whatever. He is too small and doesn't force turnovers.




I completely agree. He's been overrated for over a year now. Even as a college player he was overrated let alone as a draft prospect.


----------



## Bonzai12

I think a lot of QBs are going to slide in this draft and you're going to have a lot of activity in the 20-30 picks of teams trying to move up and lock in the rookie option on QBs. 

The draft is so loaded with edge rushers and DBs - the teams that take a QB early are just doing themselves a disservice.


----------



## Avs_19

Bonzai12 said:


> Has Mayock come out with his mock? He's usually pretty dead on with his picks. I saw his precombine picks but haven't seen his mock yet. Got a link?




He only does one mock and that's usually the day before the draft. He updates his top five at each position leading up to the draft though. 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000794141/article/mike-mayocks-2017-nfl-draft-position-rankings-20


----------



## Bonzai12

Browns won't trade #1 per coach

Remember the days when a draft pick was announced and holding up a jersey in early March? Heck even the contract was done by the draft. Miss that kind of.


----------



## rangerssharks414

Bonzai12 said:


> Browns won't trade #1 per coach
> 
> Remember the days when a draft pick was announced and holding up a jersey in early March? Heck even the contract was done by the draft. Miss that kind of.




I think it's pretty much a lock that they're taking Garrett.


----------



## m9

Bonzai12 said:


> Browns won't trade #1 per coach
> 
> Remember the days when a draft pick was announced and holding up a jersey in early March? Heck even the contract was done by the draft. Miss that kind of.




What? The NFL has had relatively the same draft dates for at least 20 years. You are talking about like the first overall guy who would (sometimes) sign in advance?

And contracts/holdouts were a mess before the new CBA. The new way is much better.


----------



## Bonzai12

m9 said:


> What? The NFL has had relatively the same draft dates for at least 20 years. You are talking about like the first overall guy who would (sometimes) sign in advance?
> 
> And contracts/holdouts were a mess before the new CBA. The new way is much better.





Jake Long was signed before the draft even _*started*_ in '08

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft08/news/story?id=3358424

I mean I agree with you on holdouts etc....that was a mess....Long's deal that he signed made him the top OL paid before he was even drafted!..but what I was saying - the whole #1 bonanza thing is dead nowadays. With the contract situation locked down and no "heavy" negotiations to take place, you'd think #1 picks would get announced early like they used to. Especially in drafts like this one where there's a clear #1 established.


----------



## Hasbro

Bonzai12 said:


> Jake Long was signed before the draft even _*started*_ in '08
> 
> http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft08/news/story?id=3358424
> 
> I mean I agree with you on holdouts etc....that was a mess....Long's deal that he signed made him the top OL paid before he was even drafted!..but what I was saying - the whole #1 bonanza thing is dead nowadays. With the contract situation locked down and no "heavy" negotiations to take place, you'd think #1 picks would get announced early like they used to. Especially in drafts like this one where there's a clear #1 established.




Hedge your bets in case Miles does something despicable before the draft, like say Timothy Dalton is the best Bond


----------



## m9

Bonzai12 said:


> Jake Long was signed before the draft even _*started*_ in '08
> 
> http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft08/news/story?id=3358424
> 
> I mean I agree with you on holdouts etc....that was a mess....Long's deal that he signed made him the top OL paid before he was even drafted!..but what I was saying - the whole #1 bonanza thing is dead nowadays. With the contract situation locked down and no "heavy" negotiations to take place, you'd think #1 picks would get announced early like they used to. Especially in drafts like this one where there's a clear #1 established.




So you liked unproven guys getting those massive deals? Why? Just to see a guy put on a jersey a few weeks early? 

I don't get it. It's much better now.


----------



## Bonzai12

m9 said:


> So you liked unproven guys getting those massive deals? Why? Just to see a guy put on a jersey a few weeks early?
> 
> I don't get it. It's much better now.




eh...you're not really understanding my posts.

I'm reminiscing about when we knew who the #1 pick would be before the draft - and the teams would go public with the announcement. Nothing to do with money, contracts, etc.


----------



## Hunter Gathers

It's shocking how bad the top end OT talent is in this draft. Ram is just bleh and Bolles would be a 2nd or 3rd rounder most years.


----------



## Soliloquy of a Dogge

Hunter Gathers said:


> It's shocking how bad the top end OT talent is in this draft. Ram is just bleh and Bolles would be a 2nd or 3rd rounder most years.




Which absolutely blows as a Broncos fan since that's the position which we need to upgrade drastically and should be drafting for with our selections this year. To make matters even worse, the free agent market was devoid of any decent options whatsoever on that front as well. 

If you're looking to upgrade OT talent this year, it's probably the most barren I can ever recall the landscape being.


----------



## Bonzai12

The big young kids are going DE instead of OT in high school and college. 

Money will flip the pendulum the other way eventually. Always does.


----------



## Avs_19




----------



## Gene Parmesan

Bonzai12 said:


> The big young kids are going DE instead of OT in high school and college.
> 
> Money will flip the pendulum the other way eventually. Always does.




See Arik Armstead.


----------



## member 157595

rangerssharks414 said:


> I think it's pretty much a lock that they're taking Garrett.




They shouldn't even entertain the notion of taking anyone else at that spot. They need playmakers everywhere and he's the best player in the draft.

The best thing the Browns can do right now is to solidify the line of scrimmage and if they can grab a guy with true game-breaking ability at the same time, there should be no decision to make. He's a matchup nightmare if he pans out.


----------



## member 157595

What do others think of Garrett running the 40?

I'm impressed that he had the guts to do it even though he had basically nothing to gain. Guy's one of the best defensive linemen to enter the draft in years...the type of guy you have to gameplay around.


----------



## Bonzai12

it's a nice headline but I don't see tremendous risk in what he did

Now if John Ross, Dalvin Cook, or Marshon Lattimore ran and posted a slower 40 then people would be exploding over it


----------



## Avs_19

Matt Miller is no insider and some of his info is off from what I've seen but he does seem to have sources. There's usually some interesting stuff in his scouting notebook. 

The Panthers trading up for an edge rusher seems more likely to me than Fournette. Miller mentions both Fournette and Thomas as potential targets.


----------



## Bonzai12

I could see someone trading up for Fournette for sure.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Matt Miller isn't an insider but he does have sources for the 49ers and Chiefs.


----------



## rangerssharks414

Bonzai12 said:


> I could see someone trading up for Fournette for sure.




I think they'd have to jump the Jaguars at #4.


----------



## What the Faulk

Avs_19 said:


> Matt Miller is no insider and some of his info is off from what I've seen but he does seem to have sources. There's usually some interesting stuff in his scouting notebook.
> 
> The Panthers trading up for an edge rusher seems more likely to me than Fournette. Miller mentions both Fournette and Thomas as potential targets.





I'm not sure about that. There are plenty of edge rushers that would make sense, but none worth trading up for (except Garrett), unless they're talking about packaging both 2nds. Fournette might make sense, but I think they're happy sticking at 8 and taking BPA.


----------



## Dominator13

Avs_19 said:


>





He'd look great with the Colts behind Frank Gore for a year.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Chad Kelly had to quit his workout due to a sore wrist.

Probably shotgunning too many cold ones.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## MurrayBannerman

He basically pushed him out the door for Wimbush.

I dislike Brian Kelly.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He'll have plenty of time to grow on a team.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

spintheblackcircle said:


> Chad Kelly had to quit his workout due to a sore wrist.
> 
> Probably shotgunning too many cold ones.




That's his blunt twisting hand.


----------



## Avs_19

Vikings are doing their homework on RBs. So far they've got Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt, Brian Hill, and Marlon Mack scheduled for visits for their top 30. Have to think they draft a RB somewhere in the middle rounds.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Marlon Mack is a sleeper. Size, speed, quicks and power.


----------



## m9

4 RB's gone in the first 3 rounds last year.. could that double this year? I think 8-9 guys are gone by the end of day two.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Easily.


----------



## m9

Gene Parmesan said:


> Easily.




I thought the same, but when I actually looked at the full RB list there were only around ten guys that I could see having that value.


----------



## Avs_19

> The Vikings need to upgrade the offensive line and could also stand to add some firepower at tight end and running back. They could very easily come away with this type of package: Temple OG Dion Dawkins, Troy OT Antonio Garcia, Boise State RB Jeremy McNichols and Clemson TE Jordan Leggett. Those are four really good football players.




Hopefully they can take advantage of those 4 picks in rounds 3-4. That'll help make up for not having a 1st round pick.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

m9 said:


> I thought the same, but when I actually looked at the full RB list there were only around ten guys that I could see having that value.




Fournette
McCaffery
Cook
Mixon
Mack
Kamara
Jamaal Williams
McNichols
Foreman
Perine


----------



## m9

Gene Parmesan said:


> Fournette
> McCaffery
> Cook
> Mixon
> Mack
> Kamara
> Jamaal Williams
> McNichols
> Foreman
> Perine




Is that in order for you as of today?


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Brian Hill will go in the 3rd, IMO


----------



## Gene Parmesan

m9 said:


> Is that in order for you as of today?




After Fournette and CMac its a crapshoot. A lot of quality backs. I could see Pumphrey and Hill sneaking in there too. Its a copycat league and the best offense in a long time utilized two backs.


----------



## m9

Gene Parmesan said:


> After Fournette and CMac its a crapshoot. A lot of quality backs. I could see Pumphrey and Hill sneaking in there too. Its a copycat league and the best offense in a long time utilized two backs.




Fair enough.

Mine as of today, with rounds:

Fournette (1)
McCaffrey (1)
Cook (1/2)
Mixon (2)
Kamara (2)
Foreman (2/3)
Perine (3/4)
Mack (3/4)
Hunt (4/5)
Williams (4/5)

What are your thoughts on two guys in particular - Gallman and Clement? I see certain people in love with either guy, and I just don't see it.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

I like Gallman a lot. Hes tough and versatile. Kind of reminds me of Fred Jackson.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I think TJ Logan from UNC is going to be a better NFL RB than Trubisky will be an NFL QB.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Logan is in the O.W. category for me. Like Curtis Samuel. Offensive Weapon.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Yeap, very good hands and can return kicks. 4.37 usually finds a spot.


----------



## Hasbro

Despite that obvious glut of talent will there be enough teams drafting QBs in the first two days?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

The 49ers are hardlegged for Kiser.


----------



## Avs_19

For those who have seen a lot more of him than I have, why isn't McCaffrey in the top 15 conversation? I've seen some mocks where he's not even in the 1st round. Is it just his size and ability to run inside? He's one of the most athletic offensive players in this draft and looks like a game changer at RB, in the slot, and on special teams.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He's 6'1" 210. He's a top 15 player.


----------



## What the Faulk

He's white.


----------



## m9

Gene Parmesan said:


> I like Gallman a lot. Hes tough and versatile. Kind of reminds me of Fred Jackson.




In the Clemson games I watched, I saw NFL talent all over (QB, WR, TE) but Gallman just didn't show much. He looked like a future backup in the NFL, at best. Maybe I need to watch a few more games.



Hasbro said:


> Despite that obvious glut of talent will there be enough teams drafting QBs in the first two days?




I think Watson, Kizer, Mahomes, Trubisky, and Webb are locks to go by the end of Round 2, and I think Kaaya goes at the end of Round 3. 



Avs_19 said:


> For those who have seen a lot more of him than I have, why isn't McCaffrey in the top 15 conversation? I've seen some mocks where he's not even in the 1st round. Is it just his size and ability to run inside? He's one of the most athletic offensive players in this draft and looks like a game changer at RB, in the slot, and on special teams.




It's because he has too many hurdles to clear. First, you have a bunch of teams that won't draft a running back that high. Then, you have a bunch of teams that don't need a running back. Then, you have teams that won't draft a guy that doesn't meet their potential thresholds.. for him, size. You are probably left with 5-10 teams that would actually consider drafting him in the first round, and then it's just a matter of where they have him ranked as a player.


----------



## Bonzai12

What the Faulk said:


> He's white.









it's sad but so true


----------



## Hockeyfan02

Avs_19 said:


> For those who have seen a lot more of him than I have, why isn't McCaffrey in the top 15 conversation? I've seen some mocks where he's not even in the 1st round. Is it just his size and ability to run inside? He's one of the most athletic offensive players in this draft and looks like a game changer at RB, in the slot, and on special teams.




Jeremiah has him going to Carolina in his latest mock.


----------



## snowden

Gene Parmesan said:


> Marlon Mack is a sleeper. Size, speed, quicks and power.




Dude is going to be a star in this league. Kinda hope the Bucs pick him but I doubt it.


----------



## Avs_19

m9 said:


> It's because he has too many hurdles to clear. First, you have a bunch of teams that won't draft a running back that high. Then, you have a bunch of teams that don't need a running back. Then, you have teams that won't draft a guy that doesn't meet their potential thresholds.. for him, size. You are probably left with 5-10 teams that would actually consider drafting him in the first round, and then it's just a matter of where they have him ranked as a player.




All fine points and it's a very deep RB class so that's a factor as well. I don't know, I'm just surprised he's not getting more love. 



Hockeyfan02 said:


> Jeremiah has him going to Carolina in his latest mock.




That'd be interesting and fun to watch.


----------



## What the Faulk

McCaffrey would be a better fit in Carolina than Fournette IMO. While that might be a touch high for him given how deep this RB class is, I *really* hope they do not take a boring ass DE instead.


----------



## Hasbro

m9 said:


> I think Watson, Kizer, Mahomes, Trubisky, and Webb are locks to go by the end of Round 2, and I think Kaaya goes at the end of Round 3. .




I meant RBs


----------



## Hunter Gathers

m9 said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> Mine as of today, with rounds:
> 
> Fournette (1)
> McCaffrey (1)
> Cook (1/2)
> Mixon (2)
> Kamara (2)
> Foreman (2/3)
> Perine (3/4)
> Mack (3/4)
> Hunt (4/5)
> Williams (4/5)
> 
> What are your thoughts on two guys in particular - Gallman and Clement? I see certain people in love with either guy, and I just don't see it.




Foreman should be cemented as a 2nd rounder (and ahead of Kamara) after his pro day.


----------



## Bonzai12

McCaffrey is exactly the same size as Marshall Faulk was. 

All this "he's too small" stuff is total crap.


----------



## m9

Bonzai12 said:


> McCaffrey is exactly the same size as Marshall Faulk was.
> 
> All this "he's too small" stuff is total crap.




Faulk's playing size was listed at 5'10, 211. McCaffrey is 5'11, 202. So, somewhat close but there is a difference.


----------



## m9

Hunter Gathers said:


> Foreman should be cemented as a 2nd rounder (and ahead of Kamara) after his pro day.




Maybe, but Kamara is easier to project as a 3-down back. I like both guys.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

McCaffery is closer to L.T. both in size and running style.


----------



## Bonzai12

m9 said:


> Faulk's playing size was listed at 5'10, 211. McCaffrey is 5'11, 202. So, somewhat close but there is a difference.




Faulk put on 10 lbs in the pros (http://sltrib.cougarstats.com/players.php?id=6745). The basic difference between them is an inch of height.

McCaffrey will likely have to do the same (add lbs), but one could also argue that your body's going to put on 10 just naturally aging through your 20's. That 10 lbs could be adding muscle.

Anyways - the statement's he's too small are just completely overblown and inaccurate. There's plenty of dudes that have come in at his height/weight and played at high levels in the NFL.


----------



## Bonzai12

Gene Parmesan said:


> McCaffery is closer to L.T. both in size and running style.




LT was a between the tackles guy though coming out of the NCAA's. He was definitely a Marty ball RB


----------



## Hasbro

Bonzai12 said:


> LT was a between the tackles guy though coming out of the NCAA's. He was definitely a Marty ball RB




Even as far as choking in the post season


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Faulk never looked like an athlete to me, very undefined. 






and this is CM


----------



## Gene Parmesan

So is Mac. Did you even watch him at Stanford? They primarily ran between the tackles and out of jumbo sets.


----------



## Hasbro

Just be there at #20


----------



## Avs_19

Hard to believe anything you hear this time of year but that's more like it.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He's everything Reggie Bush was supposed to be.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

spintheblackcircle said:


> Faulk never looked like an athlete to me, very undefined.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and this is CM




Faulk also didn't wear kicker pads and a baby jersey. . Pads were so bulky then.


----------



## rangerssharks414

The latest CBS mock draft has Fournette falling out of the first round. Seriously? Did something happen that I'm not aware of?


----------



## m9

rangerssharks414 said:


> The latest CBS mock draft has Fournette falling out of the first round. Seriously? Did something happen that I'm not aware of?




No, they just want people to read their mock draft.


----------



## What the Faulk

Well, CBS doesn't have him falling out of the first round. Half have him going to Jacksonville and half have him going to Carolina.


----------



## Bonzai12

Gene Parmesan said:


> So is Mac. Did you even watch him at Stanford? They primarily ran between the tackles and out of jumbo sets.




I'll give it to ya - the more I look at Tomlinson, the more I see the comparison. Their combine numbers are pretty much identical although I think McCaffrey had significantly more bench presses (I may have that reversed but that's the only glaring difference between the two). 

I guess I compared McCaffrey to Faulk because he's utilized in so many ways that Tomlinson wasn't in college. But Tomlinson did have really good hands - they just used him as a power runner it seemed like more often than not. But yeah, totally get the LT comparisons the more I dive into it. 

I've been hearing about Mac going in the top 15 lately too. Lots of buzz on him. 

I'm starting to really believe that the Broncos will end up with OT or even a QB. I'm starting to feel the vibes that Trubisky is going to fall catastrophically in this thing and the Broncos I think would consider him. The vibe that's been around here for months now is that Paxton Lynch isn't grasping the playbook at all. It's been repeated time and time again in the local press - almost maybe overblown coverage of it. But then again the Broncos have so many holes and for Elway to strike out on a third QB Prospect (Brock/Paxton being the first 2) would be a black eye on his draft resume. I just don't think Mac is going to be there at 20. Maybe Ross or Cam Robinson. The Broncos would be elated to get Foster as well but highly doubt he's there.


----------



## m9

What the Faulk said:


> Well, CBS doesn't have him falling out of the first round. Half have him going to Jacksonville and half have him going to Carolina.




http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2...xt-witten-fournette-falls-out-of-first-round/


----------



## m9

Faulk is also much faster than McCaffrey, I think people thought he was a 4.3 guy when he came out. It's funny because during the season I heard some Faulk comparisions with Dalvin Cook.

But the LT comparison for McCaffrey is interesting. Some people were extremely critical of the Chargers for what they did (trading down and then taking a RB from TCU so high) but similar to McCaffrey it was LT that had an excellent combine to jump ahead of the other RB's. I think going into the combine and even around draft time many people had Deuce McAllister as the top back.


----------



## What the Faulk

That's just stupid. The same writer has him going 8th about two weeks ago:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft


----------



## m9

What the Faulk said:


> That's just stupid. The same writer has him going 8th about two weeks ago:
> 
> http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft




It's pure click-bait with some of the mocks around this time. I honestly think Fournette has a better chance of going 2nd overall than he does falling out of the first round. (Not saying either scenario are likely)


----------



## Hasbro

m9 said:


> Faulk is also much faster than McCaffrey, I think people thought he was a 4.3 guy when he came out. It's funny because during the season I heard some Faulk comparisions with Dalvin Cook.
> 
> But the LT comparison for McCaffrey is interesting. Some people were extremely critical of the Chargers for what they did (trading down and then taking a RB from TCU so high) but similar to McCaffrey it was LT that had an excellent combine to jump ahead of the other RB's. I think going into the combine and even around draft time many people had Deuce McAllister as the top back.




Tyrek Hill is a recent parallel I think of Mac being able to emulate... minus the pregnant girlfriend hitting.


----------



## m9

Hasbro said:


> Tyrek Hill is a recent parallel I think of Mac being able to emulate... minus the pregnant girlfriend hitting.




Tyreek Hill runs in the 4.2's and is one of the fastest players in the NFL. McCaffrey won't be, though obviously he has some amazing other traits that Hill doesn't have.


----------



## What the Faulk

This is gaining traction. I guess they feel that Fournette will be gone.


----------



## Dominator13

What the Faulk said:


> This is gaining traction. I guess they feel that Fournette will be gone.





Or just better in a pro style game? We've seen worst than Fournette outside the top 10...

Jaguars are definitely a threat, though I think it's ridiculous for them not to draft a defensive player.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Jacksonville needs offensive weapons. The defense is really stout. Another CMac comp I like is Le'Veon Bell. Patience, magic feet and versatility.


----------



## Bonzai12

If I'm Jacksonville, I'm trying everything I can to get out of that spot and move back to 10-12 and take Mac/Fournette/Cook. One of them should be there.


----------



## Dominator13

Why not 1 of Adams/Hooker instead? That secondary still needs help.


----------



## Dominator13

I have a feeling Mahomes will be far and away the top QB of this draft class when it's all set and done. Texans are the perfect fit for him for a multitude of reasons.


----------



## m9

Bonzai12 said:


> If I'm Jacksonville, I'm trying everything I can to get out of that spot and move back to 10-12 and take Mac/Fournette/Cook. One of them should be there.




Wouldn't surprise me for them to do just that. Cleveland trades up for a QB. Howard or Robinson at 12 would work for Jacksonville, too.


----------



## m9

Avs_19 said:


> For those who have seen a lot more of him than I have, why isn't McCaffrey in the top 15 conversation? I've seen some mocks where he's not even in the 1st round. Is it just his size and ability to run inside? He's one of the most athletic offensive players in this draft and looks like a game changer at RB, in the slot, and on special teams.




Well since you posted this he's been mocked in the top ten and in this thread compared to two HOF running backs and arguably the best RB in the game today. Not so underrated anymore..


----------



## Bonzai12

m9 said:


> Wouldn't surprise me for them to do just that. Cleveland trades up for a QB. Howard or Robinson at 12 would work for Jacksonville, too.




definitely

Teams seem to be souring big time on Robinson though. It's sounding like he's gonna fall to late teens for whatever reason.


----------



## m9

Bonzai12 said:


> definitely
> 
> Teams seem to be souring big time on Robinson though. It's sounding like he's gonna fall to late teens for whatever reason.




That's where he has been projected for the most part since Jan/Feb. I think he goes somewhere in the teens.


----------



## rangerssharks414

Bonzai12 said:


> If I'm Jacksonville, I'm trying everything I can to get out of that spot and move back to 10-12 and take Mac/Fournette/Cook. One of them should be there.




They took Yeldon in the 2nd round just two years ago (yes, he's been bad). I know Ivory has been bad too, but I think taking a running back in the top half of the first round in a draft full of them is silly. If Allen is there, I'd take him and wait on a RB.


----------



## Bonzai12

Well here's a wildcard for the Jags....Deshaun Watson visited them today. 

Bye Bye Bortles?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-deshaun-watson-visiting-jacksonville-jaguars


----------



## rangerssharks414

Bonzai12 said:


> Well here's a wildcard for the Jags....Deshaun Watson visited them today.
> 
> Bye Bye Bortles?
> 
> http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-deshaun-watson-visiting-jacksonville-jaguars




I read that they might not pick up his 5th year option.


----------



## What the Faulk

Gene Parmesan said:


> Jacksonville needs offensive weapons. The defense is really stout. Another CMac comp I like is Le'Veon Bell. Patience, magic feet and versatility.




Well, given how vocal they have been about wanting Cam to emulate Ben's game, McCaffrey being compared to Bell means he's probably a lock.


----------



## Hasbro

m9 said:


> Tyreek Hill runs in the 4.2's and is one of the fastest players in the NFL. McCaffrey won't be, though obviously he has some amazing other traits that Hill doesn't have.




Thanks Al Davis. 

They both are triple threats though. Reminds me a bit of what I've heard and seen of Gayle Sayers, hyperbolic, I know.


----------



## Dominator13

Bonzai12 said:


> Well here's a wildcard for the Jags....Deshaun Watson visited them today.
> 
> Bye Bye Bortles?
> 
> http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-deshaun-watson-visiting-jacksonville-jaguars




It wouldn't surprise me, given his inconsistent play, that Watson falls to 36.

Speaking of QB's, why is Trubisky that much ahead of Mahomes? What did I miss while watching them?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Watson won't make it to 36  If he's inconsistent, Trubisky and Mahomes are day 3 projects.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I would take about 7 guys over Trubisky


----------



## Bonzai12

Pax Macioretty said:


> Speaking of QB's, why is Trubisky that much ahead of Mahomes? What did I miss while watching them?




Lots of belief that Mahomes played in a gimmick offense...I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's the big question mark I have heard.

I like his flair. He's definitely a gunslinger in the mold of a poor man's Brett Favre. He's just got that swagger to him.

This QB class is tough to figure out. Watson/Mahomes/Trubisky are all probably going to go in the 1st but man do I have a tough time figuring out who is the best of them all. Watson's got big game experience, Mahomes got the mad offense pedigree, and Trubisky has all the physical things you look for in a QB. If you put all 3 together, you'd have a HOF QB. But each one has deficiencies. People are saying Watson's accuracy needs work; Mahomes needs structure/mechanics, and Trubisky needs to prove he can compete with the big boys....

If I was a GM I don't think I'd spend a top 10 pick on a QB this year, but at the same time I feel like one of these 3 guys is going to go in the 10-40 pick range and turn out to be a gem. 

Agree with most that Watson/Mahomes are the guys that have best chance to be the gem. I'm pretty cold on Trubisky as well. But about half of the GM's in the league always seem to be about size vs. production.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Trubisky has the same mechanical issues as Watson yet doesn't have the same physical talent.


----------



## Dominator13

Gene Parmesan said:


> Watson won't make it to 36  If he's inconsistent, Trubisky and Mahomes are day 3 projects.




We'll see about that soon enough. 1 of Kizer/Trubisky/Watson/Mahomes/Webb is going to fall way more than expected. Accuracy issues seems to be the n.1 red flag for scouts, so I wouldn't be THAT surprised if Watson falls to the 2nd round.


----------



## Bonzai12

Pax Macioretty said:


> so I wouldn't be THAT surprised if Watson falls to the 2nd round.




I would...the top 3 are Trubisky, Mahomes and Watson

Just basic math here - teams that either need or could potentially draft a QB in 1st - 
Cleveland
Arizona
NY Jets
Pittsburgh
SF
Houston
NY Giants

I just can't see how those guys fall out of round 1 with that many teams having a need. Cleveland and Houston are almost locks to take a QB and Arizona would be hard pressed not to take the 3rd that drops. Sure, some of the teams I listed (Pittsburgh/NYG) don't have pressing needs but I also can't see them passing on a top flight QB at the end of the round either to be an heir apparent.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I think someone at the top of round 2 will trade up to the bottom of round 1 to grab a QB.


----------



## Hasbro

spintheblackcircle said:


> I think someone at the top of round 2 will trade up to the bottom of round 1 to grab a QB.




Like Teddy Bridgewater. Plus the 5th year option is a boon.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

...I know he's the best player on the board, but he is looking more and more like a diva.


----------



## What the Faulk

spintheblackcircle said:


> ...I know he's the best player on the board, but he is looking more and more like a diva.





not everyone can be as upstanding as joe mixon right

This is a complete nonstory.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

It's not a story at all. But if he refuses to talk to anyone that says something negative about him, he'll end up being awfully quiet. 

Just thought it was interesting, the criticism was really mild.


----------



## Bonzai12

Sounds like a battle of snowflakes


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Garrett was just on Russillo's show and they asked about 5 question about his not liking what people say about him. He answered them pretty well, and he is a really bright guy. Very quiet and understated, not the typical football guy.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Russillo said Garrett was cool, but Garrett's people got on him hard for asking a few questions about why he cancelled Mike & Mike.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## What the Faulk

The more QBs that go in the first 95 picks, the happier I'll be.


----------



## What the Faulk

*Ron Howard voice* 
He wasn't.

If you cherry picked any draft pundit, you can probably find similar top ten lists, but Kiper voices his opinion with such conviction that it makes him look extra stupid when he falls flat on his face.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

spintheblackcircle said:


>





Yep, they do.


----------



## Bonzai12




----------



## Blackhawkswincup

Kelly had wrist surgery and wont be able to throw a football for next 3 months

Could further hurt his draft stock


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He was never more than a day 3 pick anyway.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Ok, I give up on him now.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

either the Browns are going to screw up...or....they want someone to trade up to 1.


----------



## Avs_19

Like most things that come out from anonymous execs/scouts prior to the draft, I don't buy this but I guess you never know because teams do some crazy things when it comes to QBs. Taking Garrett with the 1st pick and then using a bunch of those extra picks to move up from #12 for Trubisky seems like it would be better than passing on Garrett.


----------



## Bonzai12

In other words the Browns think SF likes Trubisky and wants payment.

Or the Browns brass are huge Mike and Mike fans.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

avs_19 said:


> like most things that come out from anonymous execs/scouts prior to the draft, i don't buy this but i guess you never know because teams do some crazy things when it comes to qbs. Taking garrett with the 1st pick and then using a bunch of those extra picks to move up from #12 for trubisky seems like it would be better than passing on garrett.


----------



## m9

I do think Trubisky is the best QB in the draft. If the Browns like him that much it's time to cash in all their draft equity and get another pick near the top and take both guys.


----------



## Bonzai12

so the Browns collect all these picks and will then trade them all away to take a flier on one QB? 



I mean great if Trubisky pans out, but wow if there was ever a team that needed 5 lottery tickets vs. buying just one....


----------



## Bonzai12

now Schefter saying it's Trubisky or Garrett at #1

they're trying to trade down.


----------



## Dominator13

Bonzai12 said:


> now Schefter saying it's Trubisky or Garrett at #1
> 
> they're trying to trade down.




This is just your annual 2 to 3 week before draft click-bait article where all of a sudden the obvious n.1 prospect isn't a guarantee anymore and bla bla bla...

Nothing to see here folks.


----------



## Hasbro

What the Faulk said:


> *Ron Howard voice*
> He wasn't.
> 
> If you cherry picked any draft pundit, you can probably find similar top ten lists, but Kiper voices his opinion with such conviction that it makes him look extra stupid when he falls flat on his face.





Credit to Kiper, he's always been up front about his mistaken enthusiasm for Ryan Leaf since that debacle.


----------



## Bonzai12

I love how like 10 NFL pundits all of a sudden had the breaking news, and each one of them had a slight variation to the story than others. 

I mean clearly the Browns front office was sending out media bursts to different people to make sure their message was heard. If it was one dinstinct message that was repeated 10 times that would be a different story but in this case it was one media guy saying high on Trubisky, another saying Garrett/trubisky #1, etc. 

It just screams to me that the Browns are trying to drum up interest by creating fake news. 

I'm honestly surprised they didn't lump Fournette into their "serious interest" media blitz if he's projected to go top 5.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

If it was anyone but the Browns I would say this is all BS

But its the Browns!


----------



## Dominator13

Browns can just trade up with the 12th to get Trubisky, that way they get both and call it a day.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I hope for their sake that it's just talk to get someone to trade up.


----------



## m9

Having a new face of both the offense and defense should be exciting for their fans. 

I don't get the Trubisky hate by some. People always think the next QB class is better. If Trubisky stayed in school people would be saying to pass on QB's this year because of Trubisky in 2018.


----------



## rangerssharks414

m9 said:


> Having a new face of both the offense and defense should be exciting for their fans.
> 
> I don't get the Trubisky hate by some. People always think the next QB class is better. If Trubisky stayed in school people would be saying to pass on QB's this year because of Trubisky in 2018.




Marquise Williams was a better college QB than Trubisky. How come Trubisky couldn't start until his last year? I'm not a fan.


----------



## m9

rangerssharks414 said:


> Marquise Williams was a better college QB than Trubisky. How come Trubisky couldn't start until his last year? I'm not a fan.




Tom Brady was platooning games during his draft year. It happens. Trubisky has a projectable skillset for the NFL.


----------



## KarlssonsGroin

This noise seems like the Hedman and Duchene hype of 09 where everyone knew the Isles were taking Taveras but the media needed clicks


----------



## m9

SwolePatrol said:


> This noise seems like the Hedman and Duchene hype of 09 where everyone knew the Isles were taking Taveras but the media needed clicks




Maybe, but as of this date a year ago Tunsil was the expected top pick and nobody knew where the top QB's were going. Lots can still change.


----------



## Bonzai12

andddddd the 49ers just counter punched.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...g-interest-in-no-2-pick-are-open-for-business



> San Francisco 49ers general manager John Lynch declared the club "open for business" on a possible trade for the No. 2 overall pick of the draft.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Bonzai12 said:


> andddddd the 49ers just counter punched.
> 
> 
> http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...g-interest-in-no-2-pick-are-open-for-business




smart move


----------



## Dominator13

spintheblackcircle said:


> smart move




Logical too. From 2 to 20 you can hit a homerun with plug and play players,and there's no franchise QB. Someone will surely overpay to reach up for Fournette or Adams, depending on needs.


----------



## What the Faulk

He also seemed to display good enough hands during the Alabama pro day.


----------



## m9

What the Faulk said:


> He also seemed to display good enough hands during the Alabama pro day.





LSU. 

Agreed that he's checked all the boxes. Pretty clean prospect.


----------



## What the Faulk

Whoops, that one. Too much Alabama on my mind for this draft.


----------



## Voight




----------



## m9

Jaworski also had Mettenberger as QB2 in his draft year and made a bunch of terrible QB calls.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

Among the dumb things I recall from Jaws in recent years

Cousins is better QB then Rodgers
http://national.suntimes.com/nation...aworski-kirk-cousins-better-qb-aaron-rodgers/

Jaws talking up Jets future and Geno Smith


> “I think Geno, when I’ve looked at him now for a couple of years in the NFL, I see a quarterback that’s getting better,” Jaworski said, via the team’s website. “He’s forgotten the mistakes and I still remember going to Morgantown, West Virginia for his Pro Day and outside of Robert Griffin III –- it was one of the best pro days I’ve seen. So he can make every throw, he can do everything it takes to be an NFL quarterback. It’s just about consistency. It’s now Year 3 and believe me we put these guys way before their time out there on the field and we expect a Peyton Manning performance. It doesn’t happen. I see a nice growth every single year in Geno and I like the future of the Jets with Geno Smith at quarterback.”



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/29/ron-jaworski-likes-the-jets-future-with-geno-smith/

And as mentioned he had Mettenberger ranked #2 at draft ahead of Brigewater (#3) and Carr (#5). Had Johnny Manziel ranked higher as a QB prospect then Carr as well

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/03/espns_ron_jaworski_zach_metten.html


----------



## Gene Parmesan

If you show Jaws a big, slow and heavy footed QB...he falls in love.


----------



## Street Hawk

m9 said:


> Having a new face of both the offense and defense should be exciting for their fans.
> 
> I don't get the Trubisky hate by some. People always think the next QB class is better. If Trubisky stayed in school people would be saying to pass on QB's this year because of Trubisky in 2018.




The negative for Trubisky is the lack of tape in that if you are a one year wonder, NFL teams don't get the opportunity to see how you adjust to defence after they get tape on you. They want to see how DC begin attacking a QB and start to attack his weaknesses.

That's what you miss out on Trubisky as a 1 year starter.

With that said, I would go ahead and take Garrett at #1. Then, if needed, I'd trade up from #12 to get a QB if I really liked the guy. But, honestly, I don't think Trubisky is a sure enough thing for teams to be taking him that high.

As for his college career, most head coaches don't sub in a younger QB if they have a set starter who is returning or already in the system for a couple of years.

Max Browne got to start at USC this past year, but because he struggled early, it opened the door for Darnold. Browne was a RS Junior and had already graduated, so he could have transferred and been a starter.

So, Max Browne, even if he lights it up at Pitt, will likely get the same treatment as Trubisky in the 2018 NFL draft. He'd only get like 15 or so starts in college.


----------



## LegionOfDoom91

Max Browne might not even be the starter at Pitt next year. He's losing reps to younger guys on their roster as spring has gone on.


----------



## Dominator13

Gene Parmesan said:


> If you show Jaws a big, slow and heavy footed QB...he falls in love.




They just said he was high on Prescott last year...


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Pax Macioretty said:


> They just said he was high on Prescott last year...




And? Prescott was undervalued by a lot of people.


----------



## m9

Street Hawk said:


> The negative for Trubisky is the lack of tape in that if you are a one year wonder, NFL teams don't get the opportunity to see how you adjust to defence after they get tape on you. They want to see how DC begin attacking a QB and start to attack his weaknesses.
> 
> That's what you miss out on Trubisky as a 1 year starter.
> 
> With that said, I would go ahead and take Garrett at #1. Then, if needed, I'd trade up from #12 to get a QB if I really liked the guy. But, honestly, I don't think Trubisky is a sure enough thing for teams to be taking him that high.
> 
> As for his college career, most head coaches don't sub in a younger QB if they have a set starter who is returning or already in the system for a couple of years.
> 
> Max Browne got to start at USC this past year, but because he struggled early, it opened the door for Darnold. Browne was a RS Junior and had already graduated, so he could have transferred and been a starter.
> 
> So, Max Browne, even if he lights it up at Pitt, will likely get the same treatment as Trubisky in the 2018 NFL draft. He'd only get like 15 or so starts in college.




I generally agree. I'm not advocating taking a QB at 1, but the Browns do need to draft one this year in the first couple rounds. If they love a guy, trade up and get him. If they just like a couple guys then waiting it out is fine.


----------



## m9

Caught in the draft for 2005 on today. Such a great show. 

Funny enough, Jaworski didn't like Aaron Rodgers. Shocking.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Aaron Rodgers rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Hes always had a huge chip on his shoulder.


----------



## Dominator13

What do you guys think of Alvin Kamara? My buddy who's a big Tennessee fan calls him "the Nascar driver" because he's always turning left in pass plays.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He's a solid player. Kind of a jack of all trades type.


----------



## Bonzai12

Interesting read on Mahomes - 
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/4/...patrick-mahomes-stock-rising-texans-cardinals

It might be a race between the Cards and Texans to see who can trade down lower to get him. Sounds like he's going to be a hot commodity.

People ask about the question marks and this article covers them pretty well - questions about accuracy still, his improvising, and the Air Raid system.

These two paragraphs kind of made me raise my eyebrows a bit. Mahomes does have history working against him but it's always hard to paint a broad brush.



> He will also have to fight off the stigma of being a Texas Tech quarterback. The Red Raiders have been host to some prolific passing offenses in the past two decades. Slingers like Graham Harrell, Kliff Kingsbury, and Seth Doege all compiled multiple 4,000-yard passing seasons during their stays in Lubbock. Together, they combined to throw six passes in the NFL.
> 
> Air Raid quarterbacks — the system in which Mahomes cut his teeth at Tech — have traditionally struggled in the NFL. Prospects like Tim Couch, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Max Hall, and Brandon Weeden have tried to translate impressive college stats to the next level with limited success. There are several theories why these quarterbacks fail — it’s a simplistic offensive system that creates a difficult transition to more complicated NFL play calling, for one — and Mahomes will have to be a special kind of player to break that streak of futility.


----------



## What the Faulk

> Profootballtalk's Mike Florio passes along "palpable buzz" that Oklahoma RB Joe Mixon "could linger much longer than expected" in the NFL draft.
> Per Florio, "multiple league sources who have investigated the situation believe that Mixon may be waiting beyond round two or three." Another source "suggested" to Florio that "Mixon possibly won't be drafted at all." NFL.com analyst and longtime league insider Gil Brandt recently posted a ranking of this year's top-150 draft prospects, and Mixon wasn't included. The draftnik community has seemed convinced Mixon will be drafted early in the second round.




This is a change.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Smokescreen.


----------



## Bonzai12

Is that an E4?

Seriously, Mike Florio comes off to me just as bad as Eklund


----------



## What the Faulk

Florio is pretty bad, but comparing him to Eklund is pretty out of touch.


----------



## m9

Mixon will go somewhere in the 30's. That's probably just Brandt's personal board, and he (like a bunch of teams) wouldn't draft Mixon. 

Also, despite the late release Brandt is often considerably off on the draft projection.


----------



## What the Faulk

The point is about Florio's "sources", not Brandt. Nobody cares what a pundit thinks for the reasons you stated.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

I think Mixon goes in the 3rd. Cincy, Baltimore and K.C. are the teams to watch.


----------



## Bonzai12

Denver brought him in for a visit. Media pounced all over it. 

The fact that teams are bringing him in though definitely shows me they're interested. Unless he is just totally botching interviews - it only takes one team to like him though.


----------



## What the Faulk

I'm still thinking he will get drafted too. There's been virtually no media pressure around him that I've seen.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

A team has to be absolutely be comfortable with him with no babysitter and off the field. Cincy and K.C. have shown a penchant for taking character risks.


----------



## m9

I think he's in play starting with pick #32. I don't think teams want to roll him out there in front of the media as their #1 pick, but he'll go high in the 2nd. 

It wasn't long ago that Dorial Green-Beckham went high in the 2nd round and Joe Mixon is a better prospect than him.

I could really see him landing with New Orleans at either pick 32 or 42.


----------



## What the Faulk

With the way the draft is now, the 2nd rounders get a lot of media attention as well. They lead off the 2nd day and have former NFL players announce them. If a team really wanted to "hide" his selection, he'll probably go 3rd round if not even later.


----------



## What the Faulk

That explains yesterday's report.


----------



## Street Hawk

Gene Parmesan said:


> A team has to be absolutely be comfortable with him with no babysitter and off the field. Cincy and K.C. have shown a penchant for taking character risks.




Out of the 32 teams, I'm sure there are some that don't plan on drafting a RB because their roster is pretty much set at the position. Then there's a group that don't want to deal with the PR side of things and having to put their coaches and players in front of the cameras to talk about it.

He's got the talent to play, so there's going to be a team that will take him. Just a matter of that team getting the best discount that they can for him.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Hes probably the most talented back in the draft when you put the complete package together.


----------



## Big Poppa Puck

What the Faulk said:


> That explains yesterday's report.





Turned out to be false.


----------



## m9

Not a big surprise it was false.

I'm sure Mixon is capable of things like that, but the timing was weird and I'm not sure what the motivation of the accuser would be.


----------



## Tony Romo

Gene Parmesan said:


> Hes probably the most talented back in the draft when you put the complete package together.




If he fit the pats mold (not to sure if he does or not) he'd be a pick for them. Basically a coach/gm who won't lose their job or job isn't dependant on this pick and has complete owner trust.


----------



## What the Faulk

^^ Since Big Poppa Puck thinks citations are optional, I got you.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ol-allegation-against-joe-mixon-was-recanted/



> In a report read by the lawyer for the woman struck by Mixon in 2014 during her interview with police, Anthony Hernandez said, “I know for a fact he threw my daughter to the ground and hit her.” Hernandez, who made the claim originally on Facebook, thereafter recanted his claims with another Facebook post.
> 
> On March 30, 2017, Hernandez forwarded the text of the clarification to Mixon’s lawyer, Blake Johnson of Crowe & Dunlevy. On Wednesday morning, Blake Johnson forwarded the clarification to PFT.




Why all of this came out yesterday and this morning is weird, but it has nothing to do with the accusers.


----------



## m9

What the Faulk said:


> ^^ Since Big Poppa Puck thinks citations are optional, I got you.
> 
> http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ol-allegation-against-joe-mixon-was-recanted/
> 
> Why all of this came out yesterday and this morning is weird, but it has nothing to do with the accusers.




Thanks, makes more sense.

Not really blaming them completely, but this type of thing is exactly why I stopped following PFT for football news. There were so many times when they would report something and then have a conflicting report soon after.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

m9 said:


> Not a big surprise it was false.
> 
> I'm sure Mixon is capable of things like that, but the timing was weird and I'm not sure what the motivation of the accuser would be.




From a bad part of the bay area. I played h.s. ball against his uncle, who should have been a D-1 basketball player but got involved in the life. Could be a old family beef or something.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Bonzai12 said:


> Interesting read on Mahomes -
> http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/4/...patrick-mahomes-stock-rising-texans-cardinals
> 
> It might be a race between the Cards and Texans to see who can trade down lower to get him. Sounds like he's going to be a hot commodity.
> 
> People ask about the question marks and this article covers them pretty well - questions about accuracy still, his improvising, and the Air Raid system.
> 
> These two paragraphs kind of made me raise my eyebrows a bit. Mahomes does have history working against him but it's always hard to paint a broad brush.




I think with QB's from a traditional air raid offense is the o-line splits create entirely different looks and an entirely different pocket than a traditional o-line sets. Mahomes is easily the most talented guy to come from this system but he'll need a year. The guys that came before him all had the smarts but not his talent. He has both.


----------



## m9

Gene Parmesan said:


> I think with QB's from a traditional air raid offense is the o-line splits create entirely different looks and an entirely different pocket than a traditional o-line sets. Mahomes is easily the most talented guy to come from this system but he'll need a year. The guys that came before him all had the smarts but not his talent. He has both.




He is such a great fit in Arizona given their situation. I don't think they trade down, I think they pick Mahomes at #13 and he'll be the starting QB next year.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Arizona would be ideal because he has Palmer and Arians and Tom Moore to lean on and learn from. K.C. is another good fit. S.F. too but I've heard they are pretty hot on Kizer and Watson.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

I'm really curious to see where Joe Williams lands. Dude is a legit talent but has some red flags regarding football commitment and off the field stuff.


----------



## m9

Gene Parmesan said:


> I'm really curious to see where Joe Williams lands. Dude is a legit talent but has some red flags regarding football commitment and off the field stuff.




I'm thinking a team like Buffalo in the 5th round. And not just because they have drafted a RB named "Williams" around them in the last two drafts.


----------



## m9

Gene Parmesan said:


> Arizona would be ideal because he has Palmer and Arians and Tom Moore to lean on and learn from. K.C. is another good fit. S.F. too but I've heard they are pretty hot on Kizer and Watson.




I think so too. Arians will see the arm talent and think (or know) he can turn him into an elite guy.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

m9 said:


> I'm thinking a team like Buffalo in the 5th round. And not just because they have drafted a RB named "Williams" around them in the last two drafts.




He is one of the best size/speed combos in the draft. My only questions are durability and off the field crap. Got kicked out of UConn for theft.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

m9 said:


> I think so too. Arians will see the arm talent and think (or know) he can turn him into an elite guy.




He has to learn to balance the sandlot with structure.


----------



## Big Poppa Puck

What the Faulk said:


> ^^ Since Big Poppa Puck thinks citations are optional, I got you.
> 
> http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ol-allegation-against-joe-mixon-was-recanted/




I saw it come across twitter earlier and didn't feel like looking for the article, lol.




m9 said:


> Thanks, makes more sense.
> 
> Not really blaming them completely, but this type of thing is exactly why I stopped following PFT for football news. There were so many times when they would report something and then have a conflicting report soon after.





Probably because they want to be "FIRST!" and send things out before completely fact checking.


----------



## Street Hawk

m9 said:


> He is such a great fit in Arizona given their situation. I don't think they trade down, I think they pick Mahomes at #13 and he'll be the starting QB next year.




Trading down is always a wise move if you can secure an additional pick and still get the player that you want.

Cardinals hold pick #13. Between them and #20, you have Philly, Indy, Wash, Ten, TB, and Den. Only Washington would even consider a QB at their slot. So, if there is a player that one of those teams covet and that player is still on the board, then it would make sense to drop down and take Mahomes in the late teens, rather than at #13 and obtain an extra 4th round pick or something.

Once you pass #20, Detroit, in the news today, indicating that Stafford is unwilling to take less money on a new contract. He wants a big one like Luck. Then you have the Giants who will be begin thinking about the heir to Manning, but it's not a pressing need, so that can wait if they want.

Houston and KC at #25 and #27 are the slots where you would think would take a QB.

Or conversely, Arizona could take another player and then trade up from #45 back into the late first, by trading their 3rd rounder and something else to secure a QB late in round 1. Might be better to give up a 2nd, 3rd and 4th or 5th rounder to get a QB late in round 1, as you get the 5th year option, which could be valuable. Seahawks had to pay Wilson last season, while Luck was on his 5th year option.


----------



## Bonzai12

Unless Houston or KC trade up. 

Mahomes seems to have the same market as Paxton Lynch did last year. A lot of folks thought Lynch would be one of those QBs taken in the late first. Then Dallas and Denver both were vying like crazy to get him. 

Could see the same thing with Mahomes this year.


----------



## m9

Street Hawk said:


> Trading down is always a wise move if you can secure an additional pick and still get the player that you want.
> 
> Cardinals hold pick #13. Between them and #20, you have Philly, Indy, Wash, Ten, TB, and Den. Only Washington would even consider a QB at their slot. So, if there is a player that one of those teams covet and that player is still on the board, then it would make sense to drop down and take Mahomes in the late teens, rather than at #13 and obtain an extra 4th round pick or something.
> 
> Once you pass #20, Detroit, in the news today, indicating that Stafford is unwilling to take less money on a new contract. He wants a big one like Luck. Then you have the Giants who will be begin thinking about the heir to Manning, but it's not a pressing need, so that can wait if they want.
> 
> Houston and KC at #25 and #27 are the slots where you would think would take a QB.
> 
> Or conversely, Arizona could take another player and then trade up from #45 back into the late first, by trading their 3rd rounder and something else to secure a QB late in round 1. Might be better to give up a 2nd, 3rd and 4th or 5th rounder to get a QB late in round 1, as you get the 5th year option, which could be valuable. Seahawks had to pay Wilson last season, while Luck was on his 5th year option.




Trading down to get your guy is always the best-case scenario, but if you feel a guy is your next franchise QB then you don't risk someone else taking him for a 4th round pick. But yeah, I could see falling a few spots (13th down to the 16th-20th area) and maybe grabbing an extra 3rd.


----------



## Bonzai12

Sounds like McCaffrey and Cook have swapped order in the eyes of scouts

Some saying Cook could fall to second round now.


----------



## What the Faulk

McCaffrey to Carolina seems to be the choice of a bunch of the Carolina beat writers. It makes too much sense and fills two big needs. They want to remake their offense this season (I keep saying how Pittsburgh is the model). McCaffrey would be used like Bell. Let's see if Gettleman agrees.

Honestly, I'd be okay with him, Fournette, Adams, Hooker, or Howard. Any of the DEs and I'll be disappointed. Barnett is too safe and nobody else is a great fit.


----------



## Bonzai12

Hard to believe 2 RB's could be taken in the first 10 picks but that seems pretty likely here.


----------



## Bonzai12

Rapoport is reporting Rueben Foster failed drug test at the combine


Top LB prospect Foster reveals failed drug test at combine (via http://thesco.re/theScore_App )
http://www.thescore.com/news/1284994


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Am I the only that thinks Solomon Thomas isn't a top 5 pick? I think he's a late 1st or early 2nd. He's a tweener.


----------



## rangerssharks414

Gene Parmesan said:


> Am I the only that thinks Solomon Thomas isn't a top 5 pick? I think he's a late 1st or early 2nd. He's a tweener.




I think he should go in the first half of the first round, but not the top five.


----------



## Dominator13

Bonzai12 said:


> Hard to believe 2 RB's could be taken in the first 10 picks but that seems pretty likely here.




Why is it hard to believe?

It's that "this is a passing league" saying that's way overused. All great teams have a leading rushing force, and some are skipping basics to adjust to the new NFL. I'm happy RBs are back being high picks, next step would be for them to get WR and DE salaries.


----------



## What the Faulk

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article145737744.html



> The Panthers have their own connection to McCaffrey. Recently hired receivers coach Lance Taylor was Stanford’s running backs coach when McCaffrey was re-writing the NCAA’s all-purpose yardage record.




If the Jags get weird as some mocks have them getting (I've seen QBs and CBs and DEs, but I just don't see it), and both Fournette and McCaffrey are there, it's going to be interesting to see what the Panthers do at 8. There's so much smoke around them taking a RB.


----------



## GlassesJacketShirt

What the Faulk said:


> http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article145737744.html
> 
> 
> 
> If the Jags get weird as some mocks have them getting (I've seen QBs and CBs and DEs, but I just don't see it), and both Fournette and McCaffrey are there, it's going to be interesting to see what the Panthers do at 8. There's so much smoke around them taking a RB.




If the Panthers are targeting McCaffrey, perhaps they would consider a trade down? Lots of smoke surrounding Arizona wanting a QB, possibly Mahomes, so it could be in their best interest to leap the Bills and Browns to get their guy at 8. Could fetch an extra pick.


----------



## Hasbro

BLASPHEMOUS said:


> If the Panthers are targeting McCaffrey, perhaps they would consider a trade down?




Bengals might grab him at #9 and too far down someone might leapfrog them.


----------



## What the Faulk

^ Exactly. It sounds like they want to make sure they get their guy but don't want to move around to do that.


----------



## GlassesJacketShirt

Fair enough, though I don't think McCaffrey is a good value for the Bengals at 9. That defense they got right now ain't getting any younger.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

**** value. Its about making your team better. McCaffery makes any team better.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

I really want Charles Harris in the "LEO" position in S.F.


----------



## Avs_19

From top 10 pick to out of the 1st round?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Foster is still a 1st rounder.


----------



## Hasbro

Yeah that reeks of a BS planted rumor by a team wanting to knock his value enough to take him.


----------



## GlassesJacketShirt

Gene Parmesan said:


> **** value. Its about making your team better. McCaffery makes any team better.




To each their own, but I don't think McCaffrey will have the impact I want out of a top 10 pick even if I really like his versatility. I do not see him as an every down back, simple as that.

Also, no way Foster falls to the second round. Wouldn't trust Lombardi for anything.


----------



## Hasbro

BLASPHEMOUS said:


> To each their own, but I don't think McCaffrey will have the impact I want out of a top 10 pick even if I really like his versatility. I do not see him as an every down back, simple as that.




You get a good player that fills a need that isn't a kicker or punter, who gives a ****?

And believe me, I'm all for Carolina passing on Mac!


----------



## GlassesJacketShirt

Hasbro said:


> You get a good player that fills a need that isn't a kicker or punter, who gives a ****?
> 
> And believe me, I'm all for Carolina passing on Mac!




I don't really give a **** to be honest. If the Bengals want to take him, they can be my guest. Hell, they can find a way to draft Myles Garrett for all I care, they'll still find a new way to lose in the wildcard round.  *

*Should they make the post-season


----------



## Gene Parmesan

BLASPHEMOUS said:


> To each their own, but I don't think McCaffrey will have the impact I want out of a top 10 pick even if I really like his versatility. I do not see him as an every down back, simple as that.
> 
> Also, no way Foster falls to the second round. Wouldn't trust Lombardi for anything.




Why not?


----------



## m9

BLASPHEMOUS said:


> To each their own, but I don't think McCaffrey will have the impact I want out of a top 10 pick even if I really like his versatility. I do not see him as an every down back, simple as that.
> 
> Also, no way Foster falls to the second round. Wouldn't trust Lombardi for anything.




Why does he need to be an every-down back to have that value? If he runs 10-12 times, catches 4-5 balls, and returns 2-3 punts I think you get what you need out of him. 

I do think for a bunch of teams that already have similar players he's not worth a high pick because they won't be able to manufacturer those touches. Maybe the Bengals (if Gio is healthy) are one of them.


----------



## What the Faulk

Plus, Jonathan Stewart isn't going anywhere. I'd argue that McCaffrey is a better fit than Fournette with Stewart capable of grinding out the tough yards and playing more of a Mike Tolbert role moving forward.


----------



## Avs_19

Gene Parmesan said:


> Foster is still a 1st rounder.




Probably should be unless there's more than the failed drug test out there.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Matt Miller has a hard on for boring Mitchell. No shock.


----------



## Avs_19

Two weeks ago I was wondering why McCaffrey isn't being talked about enough and now he's being talked about as a top 10 pick and maybe the first RB off the board. Watch the Jaguars shock everyone like they did with Bortles and take him 4th overall.


----------



## What the Faulk

For better or worse, this probably makes a huge difference.


----------



## GlassesJacketShirt

Gene Parmesan said:


> Why not?




I personally see him as a change of pace back in the NFL in the mold of a Dion Lewis. McCaffrey has a higher ceiling no doubt, and he most likely will not be as injury prone, but do I plan on building the offense around him? Not really. Excellent feet and vision, questionable leg power, not 100% sure about how long his frame will last over time. His versatility makes him an attractive player for a great offensive schemer, yet I do not think he will provide a fear factor for opposing defenses.

Long story short: I think McCaffrey would be the icing on the cake for many squads. For a team like Carolina, I think this would be a fine fit since they need more production at WR and RB, and he offers them something they lack at both levels. While I did suggest a trade down earlier, that is merely with the intention of getting a little extra if they can without jeopardizing their target. He would unquestionably make their team better, even if my personal philosophy would lead me elsewhere on this pick. 

For the Bengals, not so sure. Their RB situation is strange: on paper, they have an ideal mix of a power back and a satellite guy, but the results have not always been there. McCaffrey would offer an improvement on Bernard in theory, but considering the players available on the board and the areas where they need improvement, I do not think McCaffrey is a need. With an early second round pick to play with, I also have to bring Dalvin Cook and Joe Mixon into the equation, and since the Bengals' tolerance on ******** is a lot higher than most I'd have to believe both of them will be on their board.

Unless, of course, one also believes Cook and Mixon won't make it to that point.


----------



## m9

Gene Parmesan said:


> Matt Miller has a hard on for boring Mitchell. No shock.




It's just Miller reporting what he's hearing, that Trubisky will go top ten.

I agree with him.


----------



## GlassesJacketShirt

m9 said:


> It's just Miller reporting what he's hearing, that Trubisky will go top ten.
> 
> I agree with him.




He probably will. Not sure if he will be a starting NFL QB, but for his sake I hope he doesn't end up with the Jets.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

m9 said:


> It's just Miller reporting what he's hearing, that Trubisky will go top ten.
> 
> I agree with him.




He probably will. Andy Dalton in the top 10.


----------



## Avs_19

Stop hating on Mitchell, Gene.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

I'm not hating.  He's a solid prospect but I have no idea why the media and draftniks feel the need to oversell him. If DeShaun Watson and Mahomes are going to struggle with verbiage and huddling so is Trubisky. Came from a system with the same predetermined reads and no huddle hurry up attack.


----------



## six sigma

I gave up trying to figure out true QB value on draft day many years ago. Am thankful that I don't have to worry about for a few years.


----------



## Bonzai12

Echoing the Foster thing - no way in 2nd

He's in a similar situation as Tunsil or Shane Ray were in - and he's probably a better player than both.

Put Foster next to a locker room guy and he'll be fine. No problem of that dude fitting into a winning culture from some team in the 20-30 range.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Foster is a top 3 player in the whole draft. No way he slips to the 2nd.


----------



## m9

Lombardi trying to push Foster down the draft for when the Pats grab either 32 or 42 from the Saints in a Butler trade?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Wouldn't shock me if he's being encouraged to try and torpedo Foster like he did Collins.


----------



## GlassesJacketShirt

m9 said:


> Lombardi trying to push Foster down the draft for when the Pats grab either 32 or 42 from the Saints in a Butler trade?




The question mark wasn't necessary.  He isn't very good at hiding his motives.


----------



## Bonzai12

That whole Mixon thing is shady. I'm sure that statement was part of the actual settlement. The fact that it comes out weeks before the draft is also suspect.

But like the quoting poster said, for better or worse.

Speculation in Denver here that they will go OT in round one (and basically reach, since it's poor OT talent) but then try and make up for it with Mixon in round 2.


----------



## Hasbro

Bonzai12 said:


> That whole Mixon thing is shady. I'm sure that statement was part of the actual settlement. The fact that it comes out weeks before the draft is also suspect.
> 
> But like the quoting poster said, for better or worse.
> 
> Speculation in Denver here that they will go OT in round one (and basically reach, since it's poor OT talent) but then try and make up for it with Mixon in round 2.




Ugh! I hope not.


----------



## Tony Romo

Apparently McDowell is getting more love in the cowboys locker room, I'm intrigued.


----------



## Dominator13

Mixon won't be there when the Broncos make their 2nd selection, someone will take a chance for sure. Ravens, Colts, Jaguars, 49ers, Eagles and Packers (end of 1st round) could all use a 3-down talented back.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

49ers are off Mixon. Maybe under Baalke they'd do it but Lynch and Shanahan won't. They just cut a starting corner for an assault.


----------



## Hasbro

Mike Brown and Cincy seem willing to over look this thing: Pac-Man, Vontaze...


----------



## Bonzai12

Cincy would actually be a good spot for him. They never seem to have naturally gifted RBs and always make do


----------



## Hasbro

Bonzai12 said:


> Cincy would actually be a good spot for him. They never seem to have naturally gifted RBs and always make do




And counts as punishment.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Bonzai12 said:


> Cincy would actually be a good spot for him. They never seem to have naturally gifted RBs and always make do




Gio Bernard is pretty good.


----------



## Bonzai12

Gene Parmesan said:


> Gio Bernard is pretty good.




Yeah for sure they make good. But who is the last elite RB Cincy has had? Icky?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Corey Dillon. Rudi Johnson was pretty good too.


----------



## Bonzai12

Corey Dillon was one of my fav players growing up. Forgot about that dude - he was a beast.


----------



## Dominator13

Bonzai12 said:


> Cincy would actually be a good spot for him. They never seem to have naturally gifted RBs and always make do




Last year I viewed Cincinnati as the 1 team in the league who's started the year with 2 legit n.1 RBs with Bernard and Hill.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Hill is garbage. The sofest big back in the league.


----------



## Rhodes 81

I haven't really paid attention to this crop of prospects. Are there any above average RGs available?


----------



## Bonzai12

Brantley charged with battery

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/s...dt-caleb-brantley-charged-misdemeanor-battery


----------



## Avs_19

Bonzai12 said:


> Brantley charged with battery
> 
> http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/s...dt-caleb-brantley-charged-misdemeanor-battery




I was going to say he's probably going undrafted now but a guy who was captured on video breaking a woman's jaw will be selected in the 2nd round a few days from now so who knows.


----------



## hockeykicker




----------



## six sigma

Been seeing Melifonwu mocked to Seattle frequently. Can this guy actually play ball, or is he just super athletic?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

He's a better athlete than football player.


----------



## six sigma

Then I really don't care for that pick at all. Just take the best corner on the board or trade it back.


----------



## Avs_19

I think I'd be more than okay with Dan Feeney for the Vikings if he's still there at 48. Been reading up on him quite a bit and it sounds like he can probably slide in at that RG spot from day one. 

I also hope someone (Bengals?) takes Mixon so that decision is out of Spielman's hands.


----------



## Alex Jones

Glad Jerruh already has Elliot so we can avoid this clown.


----------



## Avs_19

I think you have to take Garrett with the 1st pick but it makes a lot of sense for them to jump back up if they really like a QB.


----------



## Alex Jones

hockeykicker said:


>




Please don't take him Jerry. Please.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/s...ckeyes-accused-rape-lawyer-denies-allegations

Former Ohio State cornerback Gareon Conley has been accused by a woman of raping her in a Cleveland hotel earlier this month, according to Cleveland police.

Conley has not been arrested, nor have any charges been filed against him as Cleveland police investigate the allegations. Police spokeswoman Jennifer Ciaccia said investigators are making arrangements to interview Conley.

Attorney Kevin Spellacy, without naming his client, earlier Tuesday denied the allegations to WOIO-TV in Cleveland, calling them "ludicrous and ridiculous."

According to a police report obtained by ESPN, the alleged incident occurred April 9. A 23-year-old woman told police she met Conley in the elevator of the downtown hotel and he brought her back to his hotel room. She alleges that after she declined an offer of group sex with Conley and two friends, Conley had sex with her then kicked her out of the room.

The woman reported the incident and then went to a local hospital, where a rape kit was administered. But the woman also refused to speak to police, according to the report.

According to the police report, Conley's friends said nothing happened between Conley and his accuser and that she was angry he asked her to leave.


----------



## Bonzai12

Pick your poison in this draft


----------



## spintheblackcircle

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/04/25/...cter-concerns-scouts-florida-state-miami-dade

The concerns NFL teams have with Cook’s off-the-field history can be traced back to his middle school days. Some of it is Cook’s doing, some of it the product of a hard upbringing, and some of it is from the imagination of a man set on sabotaging him


----------



## m9

spintheblackcircle said:


> http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/04/25/...cter-concerns-scouts-florida-state-miami-dade
> 
> The concerns NFL teams have with Cookâ€™s off-the-field history can be traced back to his middle school days. Some of it is Cookâ€™s doing, some of it the product of a hard upbringing, and some of it is from the imagination of a man set on sabotaging him




Interesting read. 

I wonder if teams are just are scared off by his combine/athletic profile as they are some of these off-field issues. On-the-field, he might be the best RB prospect in the draft. 

Winston & the Bucs seem to be pushing for him and that may be his best 1st round chance.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Nobody wants another Vick.


----------



## Avs_19

m9 said:


> Interesting read.
> 
> I wonder if teams are just are scared off by his combine/athletic profile as they are some of these off-field issues. On-the-field, he might be the best RB prospect in the draft.
> 
> Winston & the Bucs seem to be pushing for him and that may be his best 1st round chance.




Bucs might be his best chance of going in the 1st round but he might be much better off out of Florida if these off the field concerns with the people surrounding him are legit.


----------



## six sigma

Mildly interesting, and I could totally see this happening. Hawks always pick in the mid-late twenties, and seems like they usually trade back for an extra mid-rounder.

The article mentions Bolles and I'd be on board, but not sure he makes it to 31.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

I want ATL to trade down, not up.

Hmmm.


----------



## Street Hawk

six sigma said:


> Mildly interesting, and I could totally see this happening. Hawks always pick in the mid-late twenties, and seems like they usually trade back for an extra mid-rounder.
> 
> The article mentions Bolles and I'd be on board, but not sure he makes it to 31.





ATL targeting Harris. From the latest mock drafts, Bolles hasn't been linked to a team ahead of the hawks, and the teams after the Hawks don't need OL help. So, if the Falcons are interested in targeting a certain player, then I could see Seattle dropping back.

I'm sure Seattle would also consider dropping out of round 1 and allowing a team like Clev, Jax, Chi, NYJ to move from early 2nd round back into the 1st round to grab a QB like Watson or Mahommes. They've done it before with Minny dropping from #32 to #40 and getting #108.

So, a 4th from ATL would be around #136. Hawks managed to grab a #3 from Denver when they dropped back last year for the Broncos to get Lynch. 

If you are Seattle, they like the extra pick as they dealt their 4th rounder to NE last year to grab NE's 5th pick and take Quinten Jefferson from Maryland. They forfeited their 5th rounder this year due to contact during their non-contact practice.

I'm just curious to see what Seattle does with Ifedi. Do they leave him at guard or move him to Tackle?

For OL, Lamp appears to be the best guy. Most analysts expect him to move to Guard in the NFL. Some scouts think he could be a RT. Ramczk is a good run block, same with Robinson, but scouts I see have him moving to Guard. As for Bolles being 25, not an issue. You'd have him until age 30, then you can decide if you want to give him a big contract or not. A lot can change in the NFL in 5 years.


----------



## ShootIt

Alex Jones said:


> Please don't take him Jerry. Please.




I don't think they are bluffing about Jeff Heath. 
Of course, if some safety they like falls to 28/60/etc they probably will take em, but I think they feel comfortable with Heath/Blanton/Frazier and not reaching this year


----------



## Street Hawk

ShootIt said:


> I don't think they are bluffing about Jeff Heath.
> Of course, if some safety they like falls to 28/60/etc they probably will take em, but I think they feel comfortable with Heath/Blanton/Frazier and not reaching this year




Baker, the safety out of Washington has been mocked in the late first round, early second if the cowboys want a safety. He can cover tight ends and come up and make tackles. That's an option if you want the cowboys to avoid peppers.

Still boggles my mind how players can get into trouble or at least ha EA allegations against them during the month of the draft. You are literally weeks away from signing a contract worth millions. A drop in the draft will cost you a tonne of money. Conley has been mocked to be the first corner off the board since the Sidney Jones injury.

He's going to fall. And the kid from Florida who hit a woman was rated in round 2-3, likely won't go until the very end of the draft or go undrafted. 

The OL Collins from 2 years ago fell as well and went undrafted. Only benefit to being undrafted is that you sign a 3 year rookie deal vs a 4 year deal so you get to free agency sooner. So, you need to perform and stay healthy, which is never assured in football.


----------



## six sigma

Street Hawk said:


> I'm just curious to see what Seattle does with Ifedi. Do they leave him at guard or move him to Tackle?




Last I heard the plan was to move him to RT.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Ifedi is a replacement level guy. If the Hawks have a shot at Lamp or Cam Robinson, they need to take them.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

I know this is about the 2017 prospects but I was watching LSU games to get a feel for Duke Riley and Jamal Adams but Arden Key is going to be a ****ing savage. He's a tornado on the field.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

A lot of NFL teams contacting Cleveland Police asking for copy of police report with regard to Conley incident


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## m9

I thought teams made a mistake when they all passed on La'el Collins a couple years back, and said at the time I would use a 2nd/3rd round pick on him as he was a 1st round rated guy. The link to him sounded extremely questionable, and worst-case scenario you waste a 3rd rounder.

I feel the same for Conley. If he's there at the bottom of the 2nd round, that's where the value > risk.


----------



## Avs_19

Very similar to the Collins situation. All the teams are probably scrambling right now and they'd have to be pretty certain he did nothing wrong in order to draft him.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

So, to bring race and sexual politics in this.....I think if a team believes in Conley and picks him in the first round, I think a smart team could say, 

"African-Americans are falsely accused and convicted more than any other group in this country. To have accusations cost a young man millions of dollars by just making an accusation without charges being filed is unfair, unjust and a continuation of 200 years of African-Americans being punished for crimes they never committed."

I think it would be hard for even the most strident SJW come back and fight that.

/politics off.


----------



## m9

spintheblackcircle said:


> So, to bring race and sexual politics in this.....I think if a team believes in Conley and picks him in the first round, I think a smart team could say,
> 
> "African-Americans are falsely accused and convicted more than any other group in this country. To have accusations cost a young man millions of dollars by just making an accusation without charges being filed is unfair, unjust and a continuation of 200 years of African-Americans being punished for crimes they never committed."
> 
> I think it would be hard for even the most strident SJW come back and fight that.
> 
> /politics off.




They don't have to do that, the story will play itself out. As long as he's innocent or at least not charged, nobody will care by training camp.


----------



## Tony Romo

Gene Parmesan said:


> I know this is about the 2017 prospects but I was watching LSU games to get a feel for Duke Riley and Jamal Adams but Arden Key is going to be a ****ing savage. He's a tornado on the field.




who you like more Guice or Fournette?


----------



## Avs_19

From Schefter.....



> "I continue to hear that Mitchell Trubisky is square in consideration and may turn out to be the No. 1 pick," Schefter said. "Now I know everyone thinks Myles Garrett’s going to be the pick, and I will not be surprised if that’s the case ... But I have got very smart, very well-connected people telling me over the last 24 hours that they think Trubisky’s going to be the No. 1 pick."




http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/cfb/67216/schefter?rw=1

I would feel bad for Browns fans if this happens but I also root for chaos during the draft.


----------



## Alex Jones

Don't think there's anything wrong with them taking Trubisky if he's their guy, but they could move down and get more picks.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Tony Romo said:


> who you like more Guice or Fournette?




Fournette. Guice is really good in his own right. Just different players. Guice reminds me of Matt Forte. I think Fournette has a lot of untapped potential. LSU didn't use him very creatively.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

I hope they take Trubisky because Myles Garrett, Arik Armstead and DeFo makes me happy. Saw a video today of Armstead running the bags. 300 lb lineman aren't supposed to move like that.


----------



## Alex Jones

Not that I'm endorsing drafting Trubisky, but realistically he's probably just as good or a better option than the 6-5 Jake Locker's and Josh Freeman's of the world that get drafted high but can't hit anything.


----------



## Bonzai12

Mayocks mock is finally out tonight


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Locker was made of glass and Freeman didn't dedicate himself. Trubisky is a better prospect than both. Maybe not the same ceilings but a much higher floor.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

Not sure why you are bringing up Locker/Freeman

If Trubisky gets selected in those spots it wouldn't be such an issue. Its potentially being selected #1 and better prospects at various positions being passed up by Browns because they are reaching for need


----------



## Alex Jones

Freeman was also garbage in college and never showed the ability to be an NFL QB. Dude got drafted high (or I would suggest, drafted at all) because he could throw it a long distance.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Traits get you drafted. That's what matters. Carson Wentz had incredibly unimpressive tape yet went top 2. Played in a system in which he wasn't asked to do much in.


----------



## Tony Romo

Wonder how fast SF runs to the podium if Cleveland takes Mitch.


----------



## Avs_19

Hadn't heard this one before. The last little while most of the talk has been about them possibly moving up from 12.


----------



## m9

Avs_19 said:


> Hadn't heard this one before. The last little while most of the talk has been about them possibly moving up from 12.





Drop back to the 20s and pick Davis Webb?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Webb is not worth a 1st or 2nd or 3rd.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Tony Romo said:


> Wonder how fast SF runs to the podium if Cleveland takes Mitch.




John Ross fast.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Its so easy to root for DeShaun Watson. He has that it factor that will make his teammates want to run through a wall for him. I'm happy for him and his family.


----------



## rangerssharks414

How many QBs go today? I think Trubisky, Watson and Mahomes are locks to go. What about Kizer and Webb? Do they sneak into the first round?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Kizer towards the back end.


----------



## Big Poppa Puck

I really don't get the Trubisky hype at all. Dude seems like the next Bortles at best to me. He's all "MEASURABLES!" hype. But I also don't like any QB in this class as a first round talent.

The Browns would be dumb to take him at one. If he's not there at 12, so be it, I wouldn't even move up for him. They're better off taking someone else at 12 and grabbing Watson/Mahomes/Kizer/Webb at the top of the 2nd.


----------



## Michigan

Big Poppa Puck said:


> I really don't get the Trubisky hype at all. Dude seems like the next Bortles at best to me. He's all "MEASURABLES!" hype. But I also don't like any QB in this class as a first round talent. The Browns would be dumb to take him at one. If he's not there at 12, so be it, I wouldn't even move up for him. They're better off taking someone else at 12 and grabbing Watson/Mahomes/Kizer/Webb at the top of the 2nd.



Agreed with all this. At pick 3 the Bears are taking 1 of these 3: defensive end Solomon Thomas, safety Jamal Adams, and cornerback Marshon Lattimore.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Shefty and McShay saying Trubisky is going first.


----------



## spintheblackcircle




----------



## What the Faulk

What the hell is going on? Teams get so desperate for a QB so they reach (and call it a day on guys like Bortles early) and it sets them back years.

Carolina seems almost certain to take Fournette if he's there and McCaffrey if he's not. I'd still be excited for Howard, okay with a safety, disappointed with a DE, angry with a corner or OT, and extremely confused with anything else.

EDIT: The mocked Carolina picks from various pundits are compiled here. The results:

McCaffrey: 16
Fournette: 6
Allen: 1
Barnett: 1
Howard: 1
Thomas: 1
Hooker: 1


----------



## rangerssharks414

Big Poppa Puck said:


> *I really don't get the Trubisky hype at all.* Dude seems like the next Bortles at best to me. He's all "MEASURABLES!" hype. But I also don't like any QB in this class as a first round talent.
> 
> The Browns would be dumb to take him at one. If he's not there at 12, so be it, I wouldn't even move up for him. They're better off taking someone else at 12 and grabbing Watson/Mahomes/Kizer/Webb at the top of the 2nd.




I don't, either. I know that bowl game tape is overrated, but he was terrible in his bowl game against Stanford (I think it was). He only started 13 games in college. You're essentially betting on a one year wonder.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Trubisky doesn't even have great measurables. Same size as Watson who they say is "small".  I believe the Watson to the Jags hype. Coughlin runs the show now.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

If the Browns take Trubisky at #1, they must feel really good about the edge rushers in this class.


----------



## Bonzai12

Man this draft is all over the place. Mayock tweeted that he's never seen such a cloudy round one. 

Walter footballs rumors quoted someone saying Mahomes could go number 2 to SF. That would be wild. 

Watson's probably going to go early too. I'm starting to doubt Watson though - dude only scored 20 on the Wonderlic. I'm believing the Jags pick will be either Watson or Fournette but wow - they can't throw out Watson day one. 

Also hearing Ramzyc (sp?) still has big time injury concerns. 

All over the place!


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Ryan Fitzpatrick scored a 48 on the wonderlic so there goes that dumbass theory.


----------



## mouser

Seems like more often then not everyone pooh pahs the QBs for a while, then come draft day there's a race up the draft order to grab them.


----------



## Reality Check

Taking Trubisky over Garrett reminds me of Bradford over Suh.

It's always going to be a QB driven league however. Either you have one or you don't.


----------



## mouser

Gene Parmesan said:


> Ryan Fitzpatrick scored a 48 on the wonderlic so there goes that dumbass theory.




A better counter example would be the successful QBs with poor test results.


----------



## m9

I think it's all big media smokescreen to get people pumped for the draft tonight. "Will the Browns screw it up?" is a sure way to keep interest at a high level. 

Garrett will be the pick, and the Browns will trade back into the top five to get Trubisky. They'll give up #12, #33, and a 2nd rounder next year.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

*l*



mouser said:


> A better counter example would be the successful QBs with poor test results.




Derek Carr, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Randall Cunningham, Daunte Culpepper, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb. All scored 20 or lower.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

Only a wonderlic should maybe be a concern for teams is if a QB scored absurdly low

Like when Vince Young scored a 6


----------



## Gene Parmesan

m9 said:


> I think it's all big media smokescreen to get people pumped for the draft tonight. "Will the Browns screw it up?" is a sure way to keep interest at a high level.
> 
> Garrett will be the pick, and the Browns will trade back into the top five to get Trubisky. They'll give up #12, #33, and a 2nd rounder next year.





Sashi Brown is an HF boarder. He wants to keep every pick.


----------



## mouser

Blackhawkswincup said:


> Only a wonderlic should maybe be a concern for teams is if a QB scored absurdly low
> 
> Like when Vince Young scored a 6




Dunno, you have to work pretty hard to get a score that bad. Most of the Wonderlic questions are multiple choice with 3-5 answers. Just randomly picking answers should get you 10 or so points on average.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Have to like Jake Butt's sense of humor.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

mouser said:


> Dunno, you have to work pretty hard to get a score that bad. Most of the Wonderlic questions are multiple choice with 3-5 answers. Just randomly picking answers should get you 10 or so points on average.




Its also pretty well known that players literally blow off the exam. Frank Gore scored a 6 (has a learning disability) but is regarded as a brilliant football mind.


----------



## What the Faulk

mouser said:


> Dunno, you have to work pretty hard to get a score that bad. Most of the Wonderlic questions are multiple choice with 3-5 answers. Just randomly picking answers should get you 10 or so points on average.




I had to take the Wonderlic for a job interview once. The actual questions are not hard at all, but time management is very much part of the process. It's 50 questions in 12 minutes, so you have an average of about 15 seconds per question. If you get caught on a tough one and take too long before you skip it, it can throw the rest of your test into disarray and lead to a bad score.


----------



## Reality Check

Blackhawkswincup said:


> Only a wonderlic should maybe be a concern for teams is if a QB scored absurdly low
> 
> Like when Vince Young scored a 6




Didn't Manziel have the highest wonderlic score when he was drafted? Or, at least a relatively high one?

At least Vince Young had a good year or two in the league before falling apart.


----------



## Hasbro

Gene Parmesan said:


> Ryan Fitzpatrick scored a 48 on the wonderlic so there goes that dumbass theory.




And Terry Bradshaw is in the Hall of Fame.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Yeah Bradshaw is legitimately dumb.


----------



## mouser

Any trade rumors heating up?


----------



## Bonzai12

Gene Parmesan said:


> Ryan Fitzpatrick scored a 48 on the wonderlic so there goes that dumbass theory.




Well he did go to an Ivy League so I guess it's somewhat indicative of smarts. Smarts can only get you so far in this league though. 

I think Watson will at least turn out to be a marginal starter (worst case scenario). I'd be worried about him picking up a pro style playbook immediately though on day one. I follow Jax as my second favorite team - they need a guy right now vs later. I'm really hoping they grab Fournette or trade down.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

Fired Skins GM Scot McCloughan has been working as independent advisor via scouting service he started with several NFL teams at draft

Some in Skins management are not thrilled with that but he is allowed to do it as he was fired by Skins and running an independent scouting service he has no obligations to Skins


----------



## Big Poppa Puck

rangerssharks414 said:


> I don't, either. I know that bowl game tape is overrated, but he was terrible in his bowl game against Stanford (I think it was). He only started 13 games in college. You're essentially betting on a one year wonder.




And he couldn't even beat out Marquise Williams in college.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

I wouldn't worry about it. Its football. Clemson used pro concepts but with streamlined verbiage. He wins pre-snap and recognizes coverages. Bortles is in his 4th year and still can't. The whole "pro style" offense ******** is worn out. Nathan Peterman played under center but primarily ran jet sweeps and motion and roll outs. Looked like a high school scheme in its simplicity.


----------



## Big Poppa Puck

mouser said:


> Seems like more often then not everyone pooh pahs the QBs for a while, then come draft day there's a race up the draft order to grab them.





See, 2011.

Gabbert sky rocketed up like a month before the draft and went what? 10th? Locker was thought to be #1 overall going into his final season and then started dropping to the point where he was rumored to fall to round 2 (I took him in RD2 in the HF Mock) but still went top 10, and then the Vikings panicked cause Locker was gone and drafted a 2nd/3rd round talent 12th overall.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup




----------



## Gene Parmesan

Blackhawkswincup said:


> Fired Skins GM Scot McCloughan has been working as independent advisor via scouting service he started with several NFL teams at draft
> 
> Some in Skins management are not thrilled with that but he is allowed to do it as he was fired by Skins and running an independent scouting service he has no obligations to Skins




That's what he was doing before he got the D.C. gig.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

Yes I know ,, He restarted his scouting service after termination


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

mouser said:


> any trade rumors heating up?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Yeah draft another player without a position.  fired Scotty for that clown.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

He has a position that would be a fit ,, In a 4-3 as a Will

But the Skins run a 3-4 , Correct?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Jabril Peppers is not a linebacker. He's too small and weak.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

They took Cravens last year. He's another tweener. Peppers is a 1st round athlete, 4th round football player.


----------



## mouser

Agreed, don't think Peppers has the strength to be a LB. Didn't show great ballhawking skills in college as most really successful NFL safties do. Tremendous athlete, but I'm not sold it'll translate to a good NFL player.


----------



## Reality Check

I'm not sure what Peppers will be. But I can see him lasting in the league, injuries aside, at least five-to-ten years as a backup or starter.

I wouldn't take him in the first round due to not have a defined position where he sticks out. His versatility is a plus however.

Lions need all the help they can get, if not have a completely defensive draft. But I'll pass on him in the first round.


----------



## bluesfan94

Gene Parmesan said:


> Jabril Peppers is not a linebacker. He's too small and weak.




Could he be a good nickelback?


----------



## Gene Parmesan

bluesfan94 said:


> Could he be a good nickelback?




Struggles in coverage. Hes better off playing offense full time.


----------



## Alex Jones

For me Peppers can only succeed in the NFL on offense. If I was thinking of drafting him it would be as a guy that you can line up in several positions and can give your offense flexibility.


----------



## spintheblackcircle

Falcons have moved Kemal Ishmael from S to OLB this off-season.

He's 6'0'' 205.


----------



## Michigan

> Which player will the Bears take at No. 3? Here are the final projected picks from Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay, plus the players Louis Riddick and NFL Nation would select: Kiper â€“ Solomon Thomas, DL, Stanford; McShay/NFL Nation â€“ Jamal Adams, S, LSU; Riddick â€“ Myles Garrett, DE, Texas A&M.



http://www.espn.com/chicago/


----------



## Gene Parmesan

Peppers is maybe 5'10".


----------



## Blackhawkswincup

Mayock mocked him to Falcons



> With the ball in his hands, Peppers is special. He'll be a core special teams player. He can play strong safety and nickel. He fits what Dan Quinn wants on defense with quickness and toughness.




So a 4-3 SS/Nickel Corner

Thoughts?


----------



## AgentM

Gene Parmesan said:


> Jabril Peppers is not a linebacker. He's too small and weak.




He's going to a Nickel/Safety or hybrid $backer. I like the kids athleticism and his attitude is great, seems like a natural leader that his teammates will play hard for. 

As others said coverage is his weakness, in part due to not being a full time DB. In his first year you are getting a potentially great Punt Returner, a dynamic weapon to use on offense, and a hybrid defensive player that can stuff the run and blitz and I think can play decent man coverage. 

If you want a true cover safety for the slot I'd go Budda Baker or Chidobe Awuzie who's played CB/Slot/S in college. Peppers is more of an all around weapon and definitely a Boom or Bust guy. That said I really like the kid and would gamble on him for the Steelers at #30


----------



## six sigma

I want Seattle to take Budda. And Sidney Jones.


----------



## Avs_19

That's too far of a jump and Jason Cole is just about the last insider I'd trust but if true, that has to be for McCaffrey, no?


----------



## What the Faulk

Undoubtedly. All I've seen today is how much Elway respects and loves Ed, but I agree. I don't see how the Broncos can put together a package to get into position to draft him without compromising their entire draft. If they did trade up, and Fournette does go to Jacksonville, that leaves Carolina in an interesting spot.


----------



## Bonzai12

The Broncos can get up to somewhere between 12 and 18 with their picks based on draft points. 

But I've heard they're trying to move up regardless.


----------



## Blackhawkswincup




----------



## rangerssharks414

Gene Parmesan said:


> Jabril Peppers is not a linebacker. He's too small and weak.




Agree. I too think that he'd be better on offense. He doesn't force turnovers to be a DB.


----------



## Gene Parmesan

AgentM said:


> He's going to a Nickel/Safety or hybrid $backer. I like the kids athleticism and his attitude is great, seems like a natural leader that his teammates will play hard for.
> 
> As others said coverage is his weakness, in part due to not being a full time DB. In his first year you are getting a potentially great Punt Returner, a dynamic weapon to use on offense, and a hybrid defensive player that can stuff the run and blitz and I think can play decent man coverage.
> 
> If you want a true cover safety for the slot I'd go Budda Baker or Chidobe Awuzie who's played CB/Slot/S in college. Peppers is more of an all around weapon and definitely a Boom or Bust guy. That said I really like the kid and would gamble on him for the Steelers at #30




Marcus Williams from Utah is better than all those players you mentioned.


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## Avs_19

Gene Parmesan said:


> Marcus Williams from Utah is better than all those players you mentioned.




That's a name that has been mentioned a decent amount in Vikings circles.


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## Bonzai12

Now the rumor is that the Broncos are targeting a OT in moving up


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## Gene Parmesan

Avs_19 said:


> That's a name that has been mentioned a decent amount in Vikings circles.




Eric Weddle 2.0


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## Hasbro

Bonzai12 said:


> The Broncos can get up to somewhere between 12 and 18 with their picks based on draft points.
> 
> But I've heard they're trying to move up regardless.




He's also done that in the last two drafts


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## spintheblackcircle

Bonzai12 said:


> Now the rumor is that the Broncos are targeting a OT in moving up




And the Falcons trying to trade up to get an edge guy.


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## Hasbro

Bonzai12 said:


> Now the rumor is that the Broncos are targeting a OT in moving up




Which would really just be beating Baltimore to Cam Robinson it sounds like.


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## quesosauce

Avs_19 said:


> That's too far of a jump and Jason Cole is just about the last insider I'd trust but if true, that has to be for McCaffrey, no?





they are talking with titans for 18 not 5, they want bowles at 18 b/c they think ny giants and seattle seahawks are coming for him


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## Street Hawk

six sigma said:


> I want Seattle to take Budda. And Sidney Jones.




That does seem possible.

Budda Baker is mocked to go early it the 2nd, so if the Hawks can find a team like Cle/Chi to trade down into early 2nd round and pick up an extra pick, they could do that and still get Baker. Jones, his doctor came out and said he should be ok to go by Sept. Still, no training camp or pre-season games for him. So, getting him at the end of round 2 would be possible.

I would say that this would be the way to go if the Hawks had been able to sign TJ Lang from the Packers, but he ended up in Detroit.

That signing could have allowed the Hawks to go Ifedi, Glowinski, Britt, Lang, Joeckl along the line.

The Hawks do have to prepare for life after the LOB. Chancellor's deal is coming up and he's no longer the type of safety teams covet. That enforcer who comes up to support the run. They'd rather have someone who can cover the TE. Baker can do that.

And with all of the Sherman rumours, best to pick up a CB in Jones.

Hawks still have 3 3rd rounders. Can get depth on the OL, Edge rusher, and a LB or another CB.

But, it all depends on how the draft falls. If Watson is on the board at #26, I expect the hawks to get calls and at that point, they should pry a 3rd rounder from the acquiring team and then they would have 4 picks in round 3.


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## Street Hawk

m9 said:


> I think it's all big media smokescreen to get people pumped for the draft tonight. "Will the Browns screw it up?" is a sure way to keep interest at a high level.
> 
> Garrett will be the pick, and the Browns will trade back into the top five to get Trubisky. They'll give up #12, #33, and a 2nd rounder next year.




What I don't get is that if Trubisky isn't expected to play, why trade up for him?

My take is that next draft, the top 5/6 teams will be:

Rams/49ers/Browns/Bears/Jets/Jags

So, really, not much change from this past season. Why?

NFC East - all solid teams. Don't expect a bottom 5 finish in that division
NFC South - all have a good QB. No reason, barring insane injuries to bottom out
NFC North - Rodgers, Stafford, Bradford should keep the Bears on the bottom
NFC West - Seattle/Arizona the top dogs. QB play will dictate how SF/LA fare.
AFC East - NE and everyone else. Think Gase should continue to help Tannellhill improve. Taylor and the Bills have enough talent to be close to the playoffs. Jets, rebuilding
AFC South - Colts have Luck. Titans on the rise. Houston has a Defense. Jag, everything boils down to their QB. Don't have the confidence in Bortles
AFC North - The big 3 teams there have a QB. Cleveland is Cleveland
AFC West - Raiders and Chiefs top teams. Broncos have defence and need solid QB play. Chargers, have Rivers, and they were decimated by injuries last season.

Can always be a surprise.

But, I wouldn't mortgage that many picks for a Trubisky/Watson. If we are talking about dealing a 3rd and either #12 or #33 to get a Trubisky or Watson later, that makes sense. Otherwise, I'd just wait until next year's draft when the likes of Sam Darnold, Mason Rudolph, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, Tanner Magnum are in the draft and I can take one with a top 5 pick.


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## Gene Parmesan

Lamar Jackson>every 2018 QB.


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## spintheblackcircle

Gene Parmesan said:


> Lamar Jackson>every 2018 QB.




Oh dear, what?


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## Gene Parmesan

Yep. His mental game is way better than the rest. Petrino puts everything on him. I'll be proven right. Josh Allen? Give me a ****ing break. Another tall white dud.


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## MMC

Darnold? Rosen?


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## spintheblackcircle

Not sure what race has to do with this. Of the last 13 black QB's in the first round, 7 were busts. Same ratio as white dudes.


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## spintheblackcircle

mymerlincat said:


> Darnold? Rosen?




Both, if Rosen is heathy.


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