Blues 2024 Off-Season Trade Proposals Thread

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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Faulk is an interesting thought, but I think that retaining millions of dollars over multiple seasons is a very, very tough sell for most NHL owners. On most these multi-year retentions for good players, we have seen teams pick up like 15% of a contract just to take the edge off the cap number. I think Tampa would need us to retain about 50% on Faulk for it to make sense for them.

However, this upcoming season is the year where Faulk's salary dive bombs, so the real-dollar cost to retention wouldn't be terrible. He "only" makes $13.75M real dollars over the last 3 years of his deal ($4.75M, $4.5M, and $4.5M).

50% retention on Faulk would cost the Blues $6.875M real dollars over the next 3 years. Retaining 50% on Buch would bring us up to $10.25M in retention. Asking the owner to pay $10M to guys playing for other teams in a 3 year period is a tough sell. Especially since Sergachev is set to make $11M this year and next.

It's too bad that Sergachev's NTC kicks in the same day his $6M bonus is owed this year. It would be extremely helpful financially if Tampa could pay that $6M bonus and then immediately trade him. I think that would be a completely reasonable ask from a team that is about to cut $10M in checks for salary retention in order to give you a cap benefit. If it was possible, I think Tampa would be very smart to pay the bonus 'in exchange' for a team retaining massive salary for guys going to Tampa.

I wonder if there is any precedent with a team trying to pay a bonus early. It is due on July 1, but I don't believe that there is anything in writing that would prevent a team from paying a bonus on June 30. Or even June 1. The PA isn't going to complain about a guy getting his bonus money early (while still residing in a tax-free state) before being traded.

Theoretically, could the Bolts pay his bonus a week early and then trade him before his NTC kicks in 7/1/24? Because in that scenario, I could see the Blues being willing to retain big dollars on Faulk.
I sort of see it like the ROR deal, where Stillman was fine paying the bonuses. I know this would be different, but if Army goes to Stillman and says this is the only way to get a potential #1 guy for the next core, I don't think Stillman will stand in the way.
 
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Memento

Future Authoress.
Sep 12, 2011
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I’d go so far as to deal Kyrou and #16 for someone like Sergachev - and I’m a fan of Kyrou. If a #1 defenseman his age comes into play, every option other than Thomas should be on the table, because I guarantee some team would gladly give up a haul to get Sergachev.
 

Xerloris

reckless optimism
Jun 9, 2015
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Faulk is an interesting thought, but I think that retaining millions of dollars over multiple seasons is a very, very tough sell for most NHL owners. On most these multi-year retentions for good players, we have seen teams pick up like 15% of a contract just to take the edge off the cap number. I think Tampa would need us to retain about 50% on Faulk for it to make sense for them.

However, this upcoming season is the year where Faulk's salary dive bombs, so the real-dollar cost to retention wouldn't be terrible. He "only" makes $13.75M real dollars over the last 3 years of his deal ($4.75M, $4.5M, and $4.5M).

50% retention on Faulk would cost the Blues $6.875M real dollars over the next 3 years. Retaining 50% on Buch would bring us up to $10.25M in retention. Asking the owner to pay $10M to guys playing for other teams in a 3 year period is a tough sell. Especially since Sergachev is set to make $11M this year and next.

It's too bad that Sergachev's NTC kicks in the same day his $6M bonus is owed this year. It would be extremely helpful financially if Tampa could pay that $6M bonus and then immediately trade him. I think that would be a completely reasonable ask from a team that is about to cut $10M in checks for salary retention in order to give you a cap benefit. If it was possible, I think Tampa would be very smart to pay the bonus 'in exchange' for a team retaining massive salary for guys going to Tampa.

I wonder if there is any precedent with a team trying to pay a bonus early. It is due on July 1, but I don't believe that there is anything in writing that would prevent a team from paying a bonus on June 30. Or even June 1. The PA isn't going to complain about a guy getting his bonus money early (while still residing in a tax-free state) before being traded.

Theoretically, could the Bolts pay his bonus a week early and then trade him before his NTC kicks in 7/1/24? Because in that scenario, I could see the Blues being willing to retain big dollars on Faulk.

Is there any rule that says another team can't pay the real dollars it takes for us to retain?
I’d go so far as to deal Kyrou and #16 for someone like Sergachev - and I’m a fan of Kyrou. If a #1 defenseman his age comes into play, every option other than Thomas should be on the table, because I guarantee some team would gladly give up a haul to get Sergachev.

That's about the only reason I would trade Kyrou. Has to be a Sergachev, Miller type coming back.
 

Mike Liut

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Mikkola playing 2nd pairing for arguably the best team in the league and Zadorov is better than him. I’m glad we can’t use either one. Who needs toughness anyway? We’ll just keep our soft as a baby’s ass defenders and keep hoping Binny steals game after game.
 
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Linkens Mastery

Conductor of the TankTown Express
Jan 15, 2014
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Mikkola playing 2nd pairing for arguably the best team in the league and Zadorov is better than him. I’m glad we can’t use either one. Who needs toughness anyway? We’ll just keep our soft as a baby’s ass defenders and keep hoping Binny steals game after game.
There's a time and place for us to be making those moves. this is not the time or the place. We are not in a position to be spending 6 Mil on a player Like Zadorov when we are still years away from being a contender and by the time we are knocking on that door he will be on a heavy decline.

We are not a contender, we should not be making contender style moves like signing a 30 year old to a long term large money deal into their mid to late 30s when we should be more worried about making sure we are progressing the young players.

The Blues signing Zadorov will be a deal that would be completely useless in the long term with the position the franchise is in.
 

LetsGoBooze

Buium or bust
Jan 16, 2012
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Mikkola playing 2nd pairing for arguably the best team in the league and Zadorov is better than him. I’m glad we can’t use either one. Who needs toughness anyway? We’ll just keep our soft as a baby’s ass defenders and keep hoping Binny steals game after game.
I'd much rather get a defender who knows how to play Defense and who can clear the crease a la Bouwmeester over those two guys easily. Both of them indeed bring some grit, but they arent great at actual defense, which is our biggest issue. Wrong hill to die on in my opinion.
 

stl76

No. 5 in your programs, No. 1 in your hearts
Jul 2, 2015
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Mikkola playing 2nd pairing for arguably the best team in the league and Zadorov is better than him. I’m glad we can’t use either one. Who needs toughness anyway? We’ll just keep our soft as a baby’s ass defenders and keep hoping Binny steals game after game.
I think your expectations are just too high for where the team is right now. Doubt we see any big free agent signings this offseason, maybe some cheap vets to compete with/help shelter younger guys. Also doubt we see any BIG trades, but you never know. Best move right now may be to just continue to draft/develop, and keep the powder dry.
 

Davimir Tarablad

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Sep 16, 2015
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Mikkola playing 2nd pairing for arguably the best team in the league and Zadorov is better than him. I’m glad we can’t use either one. Who needs toughness anyway? We’ll just keep our soft as a baby’s ass defenders and keep hoping Binny steals game after game.
So because the D is soft, we need to overspend on a middling guy who'd become another not quite good enough guy on the left side?

We've been through this same song and dance before and it's part of why this team fell off.
 

Blueston

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Faulk is an interesting thought, but I think that retaining millions of dollars over multiple seasons is a very, very tough sell for most NHL owners. On most these multi-year retentions for good players, we have seen teams pick up like 15% of a contract just to take the edge off the cap number. I think Tampa would need us to retain about 50% on Faulk for it to make sense for them.

However, this upcoming season is the year where Faulk's salary dive bombs, so the real-dollar cost to retention wouldn't be terrible. He "only" makes $13.75M real dollars over the last 3 years of his deal ($4.75M, $4.5M, and $4.5M).

50% retention on Faulk would cost the Blues $6.875M real dollars over the next 3 years. Retaining 50% on Buch would bring us up to $10.25M in retention. Asking the owner to pay $10M to guys playing for other teams in a 3 year period is a tough sell. Especially since Sergachev is set to make $11M this year and next.

It's too bad that Sergachev's NTC kicks in the same day his $6M bonus is owed this year. It would be extremely helpful financially if Tampa could pay that $6M bonus and then immediately trade him. I think that would be a completely reasonable ask from a team that is about to cut $10M in checks for salary retention in order to give you a cap benefit. If it was possible, I think Tampa would be very smart to pay the bonus 'in exchange' for a team retaining massive salary for guys going to Tampa.

I wonder if there is any precedent with a team trying to pay a bonus early. It is due on July 1, but I don't believe that there is anything in writing that would prevent a team from paying a bonus on June 30. Or even June 1. The PA isn't going to complain about a guy getting his bonus money early (while still residing in a tax-free state) before being traded.

Theoretically, could the Bolts pay his bonus a week early and then trade him before his NTC kicks in 7/1/24? Because in that scenario, I could see the Blues being willing to retain big dollars on Faulk.
I can't imagine the CBA would allow the bonus to be paid early in order to beat NTC clause kicking in. Seems like union would go bonkers.
 

Xerloris

reckless optimism
Jun 9, 2015
7,187
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St.Louis
Mikkola playing 2nd pairing for arguably the best team in the league and Zadorov is better than him. I’m glad we can’t use either one. Who needs toughness anyway? We’ll just keep our soft as a baby’s ass defenders and keep hoping Binny steals game after game.

Come on man, Mikkola sucks. He played some games on the top pairing with Parayko here, does that make him a top pairing Dman? hardly. f***er can't pass to save his life and "toughness" is his only asset because he has no other assets. He's also not even that tough, he just does a few dumb things sometimes.
 

Dr Robot

Registered User
Nov 3, 2011
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So it seems Kotkaniemi is a potential release target in Carolina. If he gets waived, would we claim him?
If Mikheyev had half retained(2.35), would we take him?
 

Linkens Mastery

Conductor of the TankTown Express
Jan 15, 2014
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So it seems Kotkaniemi is a potential release target in Carolina. If he gets waived, would we claim him?
If Mikheyev had half retained(2.35), would we take him?
I dont have a desire for either player. I'd rather have one of the kids play and maybe a Perron on a 1 year deal.
 
Apr 30, 2012
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Mikkola playing 2nd pairing for arguably the best team in the league and Zadorov is better than him. I’m glad we can’t use either one. Who needs toughness anyway? We’ll just keep our soft as a baby’s ass defenders and keep hoping Binny steals game after game.
Toughness is not the be all end of of defense. Not to mention our problems on defense are driven by not having a legitimate number 1 and using players in roles they are not suited for. Swapping out an overpaid Torey Krug for an overpaid Zadorov does nothing to address the root cause of our issues.

And that’s not to say i wouldn’t mind some snarl on the back end. But I certainly wouldn’t overpay for a third pairing defenseman to bring some in.
 

WeWentBlues

Registered User
May 3, 2017
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So it seems Kotkaniemi is a potential release target in Carolina. If he gets waived, would we claim him?
If Mikheyev had half retained(2.35), would we take him?
I'd take a flyer on Kotkaniemi at his full cap hit depending on what the sweetener is. He has not lived up to the current contract he signed and is a negative value asset so I would not take him for free. However, he is only 23 years old and would be a huge steal if he ever lives up to his draft pedigree. He doesn't turn 26 until July 6, 2026. The Blues could have two years to evaluate him, increase his trade value if he plays well, decide to keep him for the contract duration if he pans out, or buy him out at a relatively low cost. Again, depending on the sweetener, a Kotkaniemi trade is a move that a saavy GM/front office rebuilding on the fly should be making, IMO.

Buyout cost
June 2024: 10M
June 2025: 8.4M
June 2026: 6.8M
June 2027: 10.4M (after turning 26)
 

WeWentBlues

Registered User
May 3, 2017
2,117
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I would sign KK if he was bought out, don't want his current contract.
That's an option too. But now you are competing with 31 other teams to sign him and there is no added benefit of getting additional trade compensation from Carolina, whether it be a 1st round pick or one of their A/B level prospects. That's why I'd prefer trading for him at his full cap hit. All of the benefits with opportunity to escape if it blows up in your face. A very reasonable buyout if executed before July 1, 2026 with less than 1M owed spread out over 12, 10 or 8 years depending on when executed and less than 1M in cap charges per year.
 

greybush314

Registered User
Dec 23, 2020
173
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I'd take a flyer on Kotkaniemi at his full cap hit depending on what the sweetener is. He has not lived up to the current contract he signed and is a negative value asset so I would not take him for free. However, he is only 23 years old and would be a huge steal if he ever lives up to his draft pedigree. He doesn't turn 26 until July 6, 2026. The Blues could have two years to evaluate him, increase his trade value if he plays well, decide to keep him for the contract duration if he pans out, or buy him out at a relatively low cost. Again, depending on the sweetener, a Kotkaniemi trade is a move that a saavy GM/front office rebuilding on the fly should be making, IMO.

Buyout cost
June 2024: 10M
June 2025: 8.4M
June 2026: 6.8M
June 2027: 10.4M (after turning 26)
nvm
 

Blueston

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That's an option too. But now you are competing with 31 other teams to sign him and there is no added benefit of getting additional trade compensation from Carolina, whether it be a 1st round pick or one of their A/B level prospects. That's why I'd prefer trading for him at his full cap hit. All of the benefits with opportunity to escape if it blows up in your face. A very reasonable buyout if executed before July 1, 2026 with less than 1M owed spread out over 12, 10 or 8 years depending on when executed and less than 1M in cap charges per year.
Why would we want to bring on someone to buy them out? Carolina ain’t likely to give anything truly significant to move him. If we like him at his number, then he couid be acquired for little if anything, but we should only do that if we believe in the player.
 

Brian39

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Apr 24, 2014
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Why would we want to bring on someone to buy them out? Carolina ain’t likely to give anything truly significant to move him. If we like him at his number, then he couid be acquired for little if anything, but we should only do that if we believe in the player.
@WeWentBlues isn't really suggesting that we bring him on to buy them out. He's saying that we would be betting on thr player to improve to his original potential in our organization. The buyout discussion is about having an out if that bet fails. We could give him a multi-year audition to see if he can become worth the money. If he does, then suddenly we added a nice piece long-term. If he doesn't, the buyout terms are still favorable after 2 years.
 
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Brian39

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Apr 24, 2014
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I can't imagine the CBA would allow the bonus to be paid early in order to beat NTC clause kicking in. Seems like union would go bonkers.
The CBA is vague/silent on the issue. Like a lot of contract stuff, we never get to see the actual language used. This is the type of issue that legally could be determined by a contract using the word "by" vs the word "on."

I agree that the PA wouldn't like paying a bonus early to worm around a NTC, but they would also very much like the precedent that a team can choose to pay bonuses early because that could often be very beneficial to players.

Let's say that there are 2 potential trades for Sergachev between the Blues and Bolts, so Tampa is able to tell the player "you're getting traded to St Louis before your trade protection kicks in 7/1. We like the return better if we pay you your bonus today, so here is a check for $6M while your residency is still in this no-tax state."

In that circumstance, it is in Sergachev's interest to take the check instead of fighting it.

The odds of it being allowed are very slim and the odds of it actually happening are even slimmer. It's just the type of creative problem solving I like to think about. It could open the door to cash rich teams gaining another tool to work around the cap is creative ways.
 

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