no mistake at all.. i mean any player who plays with hossa all you need to do is stay in front of the net and wait for hossa to make the play and pass.
we have no hossa in our team, so its all good.
This is exceptionally reactionary but he has 2 goals in tonights game against boston.....Poor pittsburg.
His leadership and character would have been worth the price of his salary. BG doesn't believe in those characteristics though, so instead Brisebois and Smolinski will teach our kids the game.
We're rebuilding with youth, it was a mistake to sign Kostopoulos, Brisebois and Smolinski in the first place.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Kosto was not a mistake...as the other fella mentioned he is not that old. In my view he has helped us more than Smolinski whom I had my expectation unmet.
The idea of signing these players to one year contracts was to continue the development (at the right pace) of their eventual replacements...Max P = Kosto upgrade McDo = Breezeby upgrade S. Kostitsyn/Ben MaxWell? Smoke upgrade since he is a C/RW
Brisebois and Smolinksi have been frustrating me this season...then again so have a lot of our players. I would be suprised though if these players were not ousted by obyrne/mcdo etc...very soon...
This is exceptionally reactionary but he has 2 goals in tonights game against boston.....Poor pittsburg.
He was quoted today as saying exactly what I said when he went on waivers: he was a point a game guy for the first half of the season, then inexplicably demoted and that's when everything went south. Pittsburgh was absurdly over reacting when they waved him.
That said, I'd be a point a game guy with Crosby too, so let's not get too excited.
Nonetheless, had we had priority, sure I'd have liked MTL to grab him. But we didn't, so it's moot.
I disagree on Kostopoulos. He is in his twenties and is an upgrade over Garth Murray.
We already have Lapierre that can do his job. We have too many fourth line players: Dandenault, Lapierre, Begin, Smolinski, Kostopoulos. That's 2 too many by my count.
lol, I would be an upgrade over Garth Murray. How 'bout it Bob? Interested in a 5"6 (I have no idea exactly how tall I am) center who can also play wing? Let me know, I was passed over in this year's draft but I'll sign with ya for the right amount...
We already have Lapierre that can do his job. We have too many fourth line players: Dandenault, Lapierre, Begin, Smolinski, Kostopoulos. That's 2 too many by my count.
I disagree.
Dandenault is a THIRD line player. He has got the speed and defensive awareness, PK ability plus he scores the occasional point 5-on-5. He can handle 14 minutes a game responsibly, and the team benefits.
Smolinski is FINISHED. (Though actually he was brought in as second/third line material, proving that our pro scouts were sleeping.)
That leaves THREE fourth line players. Quite normal, if you ask me.
Plus, there are also two forward spare spots on most teams, so I would keep all three guys on the roster even if Bob Gainey found a BETTER fourth liner tomorrow.
It always cracks me up when youth-obsessed know-it-all assume that all you're supposed to do is throw a bunch of young kids together and watch some magic happen. If only it worked that way.
As for Mark Recchi... keep on disrespecting him, guys. After all, that's pretty much all you can do since no player currently playing for the Habs is on his way toward a career that will be as impressive as this warrior. He even gave this city some pretty good years. I guess that doesn't matter anymore, does it?
Only in Montreal will you find people who can deem Mark Recchi to be complete crap and then in the same sentence expect to get more than Marleau for the fantastic Saku Koivu...
It always cracks me up when youth-obsessed know-it-all assume that all you're supposed to do is throw a bunch of young kids together and watch some magic happen. If only it worked that way.
As for Mark Recchi... keep on disrespecting him, guys. After all, that's pretty much all you can do since no player currently playing for the Habs is on his way toward a career that will be as impressive as this warrior. He even gave this city some pretty good years. I guess that doesn't matter anymore, does it?
Only in Montreal will you find people who can deem Mark Recchi to be complete crap and then in the same sentence expect to get more than Marleau for the fantastic Saku Koivu...
Why should it matter? The past is over...he had a great career but I think it's time he called it quits. Yes he did great with us but what does that have to do with not wanting to claim him on waivers at the age of 39? We're not disrespecting him, we're just saying we don't want him here as he will be no help what so ever on this team and would only waste a spot on the roster.
And this year, Recchi is complete crap, like it or not, he was horrible with Pittsburgh and yes he got 2 yesterday but I know this guy will again disappear again after a couple of weeks in Atlanta.
This is exceptionally reactionary but he has 2 goals in tonights game against boston.....Poor pittsburg.
We couldn't have picked up Recchi, Atlanta had priority since they're not a playoff spot. Personally I was hoping that we would be able to since Recchi has something to prove and Atlanta can expect at least 3-4 months of all out play from him. But I think it would have been the equivalent of when we had Gilmour in Montreal. He was playing with passion but it was obvious that his best years were behind him. It will be the same with Recchi.
I think everybody knew Recchi was going to go on re-entry if he cleared the first time, so nobody was going to make the claim the first time. Past that, I don't think Gainey really likes the optics of picking up somebody else's castaway. I doubt we put in a claim on him at all.
That said, yes, it was a mistake not to take him the first time. He still has something left in the tank, and I think we saw that with our own eyes against us. Productivity isn't the be all and end all, but even if he's just good for 15-20 goals, it's still better than some of what we have at our disposal, alas. And if it comes with a spark of energy, determination, and veteran leadership, well, all more elements we needed. By the end of the season, this will probably be the consensus. We can add it to the list of oversights to blame Gainey for.
I think everybody knew Recchi was going to go on re-entry if he cleared the first time, so nobody was going to make the claim the first time. Past that, I don't think Gainey really likes the optics of picking up somebody else's castaway. I doubt we put in a claim on him at all.
That said, yes, it was a mistake not to take him the first time. He still has something left in the tank, and I think we saw that with our own eyes against us. Productivity isn't the be all and end all, but even if he's just good for 15-20 goals, it's still better than some of what we have at our disposal, alas. And if it comes with a spark of energy, determination, and veteran leadership, well, all more elements we needed. By the end of the season, this will probably be the consensus. We can add it to the list of oversights to blame Gainey for.
Picking him up on the way down could have seriously hindered our chance to make a deal with SJ for Marleau. Adding an extra 2mil would have pretty much ruined our position as a trading partner. At half the salary its a whole different position, but then Atlanta picked him up which made it impossible for us to do.
To me this wasn't a Gainey mistake as much as it was a situation where a short time gain had to be set aside for a potential long term benefit. After all, if we're able to trade for Marleau, everything changes.
Picking him up on the way down could have seriously hindered our chance to make a deal with SJ for Marleau. Adding an extra 2mil would have pretty much ruined our position as a trading partner. At half the salary its a whole different position, but then Atlanta picked him up which made it impossible for us to do.
To me this wasn't a Gainey mistake as much as it was a situation where a short time gain had to be set aside for a potential long term benefit. After all, if we're able to trade for Marleau, everything changes.
An extra $600k in cap space wouldn't have affected us in a prospective Marleau deal. If there is such a thing as a prospective Marleau deal, anyway.
Not that I'm deadset against Gainey's philosophy of conservatism, mind you - I generally find it to be one of his most endearing traits. And it's kind of a tongue-in-cheek "mistake" - although by the parameters of this board, I'd call it such. Still, $1.2M vs. $600k on claiming Recchi (allowing bonuses to kick over if necessary, as with Price and Brisebois if it came to it) wouldn't have hurt our chances of making a trade later on, and it might have been a perceptive pre-emptive strike against the prevailing mentality that everybody would pass the first time around and wait until the re-entry chance. Neither $$$ amount would have affected us. But it probably could have been predicted that somebody ahead of us in the claim order would get him on re-entries.
So, as long as you figure he truly would have helped us, claiming him first time around would have been the smart move. But I doubt very much that Gainey had any interest either time. The lack of interest would constitute the main mistake IMHO. Failing to perceive that we could really only make a play for him the first time around if we did want him would be speculative and hypothetical icing on the mistake cake.
bah... even garth murray could get more than 30 pts/season playing with Ilya Kovalchuk or Marian Hossa... so, Recchi will get points... but don't expect him to make Kovalchuk or Hossa produce more.
So anyone can make a old used up Recchi score a bunch of points, but the great Saku Koivu with all his heart, and leadership and skill, can't make the players around him better? Ummm k.
So anyone can make a old used up Recchi score a bunch of points, but the great Saku Koivu with all his heart, and leadership and skill, can't make the players around him better? Ummm k.
People on this board need to open their eyes.
anyone ? You consider Hossa or Kovalchuk as "anyone" ? as for Saku being great, I disagree. He's a good (or very good) player but great is far from the reality.
Saku has problem to score with better linemates than Recchi... You really think Recchi is better than Higgins ? or even Ryder ? IMO, it's better to give the chance to a S. Kostitsyn to play on the top lines to get experience than having a guy who wouldn't have improved our team...
anyway... so what. the thrashers claimed him before us. end of story.
B) Don't you all prefer giving a chance to Sergei Kostitsyn instead? Considering we are building our core of young players?
Santa (can I call you that? ), there's really a limit to the number of young players a team can develop at a given time in the most demanding hockey league in the world, you know.
Building through youth doesn't mean throwing a bunch of youngsters in the NHL and hoping they figure it out. There are things such as farm teams, where your guys can get more attention to their development.
Now, getting the odd call-up is all good. Sergei will likely be motivated and put extra effort. But as a long-term solution for the remainder of the season? That's likely not cutting it.
The Habs have a pretty young team as it is and many of the players they count on do not have a ton of experience. Although Komisarek has been here for a while, this guy has only played two full NHL seasons before this one. Plekanec, Higgins don't even have 200 games played in this league. Don't even start me on Kost, Latendresse, Chipchura, O'Byrne and Lapierre. Heck, even the goalies in Montreal all have a lack of NHL experience (Huet has been an extra all his life and has yet to play a single full NHL season).
There's a limit to how many rookies veterans can take under their wing. Especially on a team with crappy leadership and chemistry like the Habs.
It always cracks me up when youth-obsessed know-it-all assume that all you're supposed to do is throw a bunch of young kids together and watch some magic happen. If only it worked that way.
As for Mark Recchi... keep on disrespecting him, guys. After all, that's pretty much all you can do since no player currently playing for the Habs is on his way toward a career that will be as impressive as this warrior. He even gave this city some pretty good years. I guess that doesn't matter anymore, does it?
Only in Montreal will you find people who can deem Mark Recchi to be complete crap and then in the same sentence expect to get more than Marleau for the fantastic Saku Koivu...
I agree that the disrespecting of Recchi is a little ridiculous. he was great for us back in the day, and has had a hall of fame worthy career imo.
that said, I don't think he would have been a good player for us to pick up. Forget the fact that he wasn't producing on a team with ubber-talents at centre like Crosby, Malkin (and to a lesser degree Staal), if the pens felt like the "intangibles" (leadership/experience/attitude) he brought to the table weren't worth keeping around despite their young, inexperienced and struggling roster, I don't see how he would have been much use to us.
He might very well put up decent numbers playing next to hossa or kovalchuk in Atlanta, but I doubt he'd have been able to do so lining up to Koivu... 5-6-7 years a go, hell yeah, right now, not so sure...
Besides, if the Habs are going to turn things around and be anything more than a desperation 8th seed this year, we're going to need a lot more than what Recchi could have given us... given that, and given that Gainey is not likely to pull the trigger on something big, I'd would rather watch the young guys struggle and learn on the job, and end up with a top 6-8 pick, than see the habs make a desperation move or two only to end up in 9th or 10th place again.
{edit: i found this article on the pens board... can't always trust journalist, but even if it's partly true, it reinforces the idea that Recchi isn't aging with "grace"...}
Last edited by Miller Time: 12-13-2007 at 01:16 PM.
I agree that the disrespecting of Recchi is a little ridiculous. he was great for us back in the day, and has had a hall of fame worthy career imo.
that said, I don't think he would have been a good player for us to pick up. Forget the fact that he wasn't producing on a team with ubber-talents at centre like Crosby, Malkin (and to a lesser degree Staal), if the pens felt like the "intangibles" (leadership/experience/attitude) he brought to the table weren't worth keeping around despite their young, inexperienced and struggling roster, I don't see how he would have been much use to us.
He might very well put up decent numbers playing next to hossa or kovalchuk in Atlanta, but I doubt he'd have been able to do so lining up to Koivu... 5-6-7 years a go, hell yeah, right now, not so sure...
Besides, if the Habs are going to turn things around and be anything more than a desperation 8th seed this year, we're going to need a lot more than what Recchi could have given us... given that, and given that Gainey is not likely to pull the trigger on something big, I'd would rather watch the young guys struggle and learn on the job, and end up with a top 6-8 pick, than see the habs make a desperation move or two only to end up in 9th or 10th place again.
{edit: i found this article on the pens board... can't always trust journalist, but even if it's partly true, it reinforces the idea that Recchi isn't aging with "grace"...}
Wasn't Recchi at a PPG until shuffled off to the 3rd pairing which in Pitts is pretty much a defense first squad. And dur to his size and play style wasn't able to score goals while grinding.
Personally I see it as mismanagement on the Pens' part and a clear win for Atlanta.
Then again its impossible only Gainey makes mistakes while dealing with player waivers and trades...
He would have helped us out in the short term, that's for sure. Has non-productive he was in Pittsburgh he wouldn't have been worse than Ryder. The guy is on his last mile in the NHL and I think he would have given us his all to prove himself. With Recchi on the first two lines, suddenly we have a different team with more firepower.
And this year, Recchi is complete crap, like it or not, he was horrible with Pittsburgh and yes he got 2 yesterday but I know this guy will again disappear again after a couple of weeks in Atlanta.
Okay enough of this.
Recchi was a POINT PER GAME PLAYER when he played on a scoring line in Pittsburgh. Thierrien demoted him to a checking role and his production stopped
Everyone keeps saying this "if he can't produce with Crosby how can he produce with anyone else?"...Well, he DID produce with Crosby. He produced at a faster pace than anyone on this team. He just didn't produce when he played with Laraque and whoever else is on the 4th line in Steeltown.
B) Don't you all prefer giving a chance to Sergei Kostitsyn instead? Considering we are building our core of young players?
Another damn rookie! I think the fans at the Bell Center are a little fed-up and wants to win. They could have kept Recchi till the end of this season and try making the playoffs.
Santa (can I call you that? ), there's really a limit to the number of young players a team can develop at a given time in the most demanding hockey league in the world, you know.
Building through youth doesn't mean throwing a bunch of youngsters in the NHL and hoping they figure it out. There are things such as farm teams, where your guys can get more attention to their development.
Now, getting the odd call-up is all good. Sergei will likely be motivated and put extra effort. But as a long-term solution for the remainder of the season? That's likely not cutting it.
The Habs have a pretty young team as it is and many of the players they count on do not have a ton of experience. Although Komisarek has been here for a while, this guy has only played two full NHL seasons before this one. Plekanec, Higgins don't even have 200 games played in this league. Don't even start me on Kost, Latendresse, Chipchura, O'Byrne and Lapierre. Heck, even the goalies in Montreal all have a lack of NHL experience (Huet has been an extra all his life and has yet to play a single full NHL season).
There's a limit to how many rookies veterans can take under their wing. Especially on a team with crappy leadership and chemistry like the Habs.
Wait !
I recall that Montreal had a flurry of rookies in the 82-85 time frame which brought us a long awaited Stanley cup...
Recchi was a POINT PER GAME PLAYER when he played on a scoring line in Pittsburgh. Thierrien demoted him to a checking role and his production stopped
Everyone keeps saying this "if he can't produce with Crosby how can he produce with anyone else?"...Well, he DID produce with Crosby. He produced at a faster pace than anyone on this team. He just didn't produce when he played with Laraque and whoever else is on the 4th line in Steeltown.
yes i agree enough. Atlanta has dibs over us in terms of re entry waivers. for all we know Gainey did submit a claim. I can understand this thread if a team picking after us picked him up on waivers but that's simply not the case.
as for the people disreecting Recchi well they likely never got see the guy play in his prime or were still in diapers. I've always liked recchi he's a hard worker and a real pro.
Recchi's dad made Mark run up steep hills over and over as a kid. smart move i think it really helped out his explosiveness. just thought i'd share that story.
), there's really a limit to the number of young players a team can develop at a given time in the most demanding hockey league in the world, you know. 
