I think it might be fair to wonder if theres one out there that could make some sense both to turn this season around and set ourselves up for next year too.
I was thinking a lot about it the last few days and wondering how we could find someone with some offensive touch that might be available. Cap issues are such a major obstacle. I was thinking how we probably do need to move some of our own salary for next season to free up room to keep Savard.
What I ended up with is a look at Calgary where Olli Jokkinen and Jarome Iginla go togther like vinegar and water. Calgary has to view itself as a potential cup contender but they have no true number one center since Jokkinen and Iginla are so incompatible. Jokkinen is an UFA next year which helps us free up room for Savard.
Calgary has a ton of cap room tied up in Phaneuf... but he struggled a lot last year and might not be worth everything he is being paid. They also have over 10 mill committed to Bouwmeister and Regher who are bonafide 1/2 guys.
Phaneuf would look real sweet here. He would be a massive upgrade over Wideman.
So my suggestion would be to send one of Bergeron/Krecji along with Wideman and probably one of the first round picks we have in the next couple drafts {not the toronto one this year though} all for Jokkinen/Phaneuf
The move would add about 4 mill cap hit to us this year so we'd need another deal to jettison someone like Sturm or Ryder but then we are able to sign Savard and I think the overall effect puts us ahead in the game.
I would suggest that Jokkinen should be shifted to wing and paired up with Savard and maybe possibly Wheeler on a new front line for us once Savard gets healthy. Jokkinen has been good for 30-40 goals for the past few years now without a setup man of Savard's caliber to play with.
I guess I would think Sturm would be the guy most movable between he and Ryder... so that would leave Ryder here to play with Bergeron or Krecji and I guess Lucic for our new number 2 line. It is a good enough top 6 for us to win with.
Sobotka would probably be allowed to stick around in our third line and we could keep Marchard around if he keeps his energy levels up. Buyout Recchi to free up some cap space after the deals. Paille has impressed me enough that I think a line of he and the kids would have decent potential to be okay.
Are blueline would have a huge facelift after the trade. Phaneuf gets Chara to pair up with so he can settle down and get back to the monster form he was showing a couple years ago. Huge bonus to our PP to have Phaneuf back there with Jokkinen our new guy to screen the goalie.
Morris can drop down to second pair and help provide more stability to Stuart or Hunwick then either Ferrence or Wideman currently offer.
As for why Calgary would make the trade... it does shave a few million off their current payroll. It gives them a future first round draft choice which is always good. They get a center that might have some serious magic with Iginla. Wideman is signed for a few years and would be a very decent number 3 guy for them behind Bouwmeester/Regher for a far more managable cost then Phaneuf.
Im actually thinking Sturm might be worth a decent pick or prospect if we dealt him to an offensive starved team. I know he has a NTC, but I am reasonably sure hed waive it if he was ok with the destination.
Id love to see a new PP with Savard back healthy up front quarterbacking... Jokkinen around to screen... Maybe Ryder as the shooter in the slot.... Phaneuf and Chara manning the points
The survivor of Bergeron/Krecji available for the second unit with Morris/Hunwick on the points and the other two spots awarded to whomever is hot at the given moment
Phaneuf sure would add some snarliness to this lineup, he`d be entertaining to watch for sure however, you must take the good with the average, and with Phaneuf, there are some areas of concern, how deep they run??? Despite his obvious positives, Dion tends to take ill advised penalties. Seems as though this year so far, he has shown better discipline/maturity.
Dion has a tendency to make some very questionable plays in his own end. Thirdly, and most importantly, I would be most worried about whether or not he has it within himself to accept the fact that this would not be his team. I am speaking about the D core not the team itself. Clearly Iginla is the leader of the Flames, but on D, I think Phaneuf needs to feel as though he`s #1, and he has a long way to go to reach the leadership qualities of our own Z.
Please don`t mistake my opinions that Phaneuf wouldn`t be a welcome addition but...he carries quite the pricetag, and IMO, he is perhaps one of the more overrated/overhyped defenseman. He`s makes the big splash hits that look good on the replays, he plays tough and physical, but there are still many kinks in his game that are often covered up by the strong D partner he plays with.
I think the problem with a lot of these "Let's trade some stuff for some better stuff, but we'll include our pick (not Toronto's) to make up the difference" trades is that other teams just aren't going to be interested in them right now.
Right now very few teams are non-contenders (for at least a playoff spot). As Sinden used to tell us, the difference between losing money and breaking even is those playoff home games. You are asking a team to get worse THIS YEAR (and you must think they are getting worse, otherwise why would we do this deal, and why would we be adding a draft pick).
If you are going to ask a team to get worse this year you have to give them some future incentive that will make them better. Clearly by doing this deal you are thinking that we will be a better team this year, perhaps a top 10 team.
If that is the case then I don't see a team getting worse right now just so they can pick up a 23rd pick in the 1st round. Phaneuf has flaws for sure, but if you want to pry him out of Calgary you are going to have to overpay for him. This deal doesn't do that.
As we get further in the season and teams start thinking less about this year, and more about next, you will find some more deals out there like this. But this isn't the time. If Boston wants to improve RIGHT NOW it is going to have to be improvement from within OR they are going to have to deal Toronto's pick while it has it's most value.
I think it might be fair to wonder if theres one out there that could make some sense both to turn this season around and set ourselves up for next year too.
I was thinking a lot about it the last few days and wondering how we could find someone with some offensive touch that might be available. Cap issues are such a major obstacle. I was thinking how we probably do need to move some of our own salary for next season to free up room to keep Savard.
What I ended up with is a look at Calgary where Olli Jokkinen and Jarome Iginla go togther like vinegar and water. Calgary has to view itself as a potential cup contender but they have no true number one center since Jokkinen and Iginla are so incompatible. Jokkinen is an UFA next year which helps us free up room for Savard.
Calgary has a ton of cap room tied up in Phaneuf... but he struggled a lot last year and might not be worth everything he is being paid. They also have over 10 mill committed to Bouwmeister and Regher who are bonafide 1/2 guys.
Phaneuf would look real sweet here. He would be a massive upgrade over Wideman.
So my suggestion would be to send one of Bergeron/Krecji along with Wideman and probably one of the first round picks we have in the next couple drafts {not the toronto one this year though} all for Jokkinen/Phaneuf
The move would add about 4 mill cap hit to us this year so we'd need another deal to jettison someone like Sturm or Ryder but then we are able to sign Savard and I think the overall effect puts us ahead in the game.
I would suggest that Jokkinen should be shifted to wing and paired up with Savard and maybe possibly Wheeler on a new front line for us once Savard gets healthy. Jokkinen has been good for 30-40 goals for the past few years now without a setup man of Savard's caliber to play with.
I guess I would think Sturm would be the guy most movable between he and Ryder... so that would leave Ryder here to play with Bergeron or Krecji and I guess Lucic for our new number 2 line. It is a good enough top 6 for us to win with.
Sobotka would probably be allowed to stick around in our third line and we could keep Marchard around if he keeps his energy levels up. Buyout Recchi to free up some cap space after the deals. Paille has impressed me enough that I think a line of he and the kids would have decent potential to be okay.
Are blueline would have a huge facelift after the trade. Phaneuf gets Chara to pair up with so he can settle down and get back to the monster form he was showing a couple years ago. Huge bonus to our PP to have Phaneuf back there with Jokkinen our new guy to screen the goalie.
Morris can drop down to second pair and help provide more stability to Stuart or Hunwick then either Ferrence or Wideman currently offer.
As for why Calgary would make the trade... it does shave a few million off their current payroll. It gives them a future first round draft choice which is always good. They get a center that might have some serious magic with Iginla. Wideman is signed for a few years and would be a very decent number 3 guy for them behind Bouwmeester/Regher for a far more managable cost then Phaneuf.
Im actually thinking Sturm might be worth a decent pick or prospect if we dealt him to an offensive starved team. I know he has a NTC, but I am reasonably sure hed waive it if he was ok with the destination.
Id love to see a new PP with Savard back healthy up front quarterbacking... Jokkinen around to screen... Maybe Ryder as the shooter in the slot.... Phaneuf and Chara manning the points
The survivor of Bergeron/Krecji available for the second unit with Morris/Hunwick on the points and the other two spots awarded to whomever is hot at the given moment
Or...we could just move Bergeron to Savard's wing and try to get a d-man to bolster the blueline and keep all those assets you'd be giving away? (Krejci/Bergeron, Wideman, Boston's 2010 first, plus Ryder/Sturm to make cap room)
Besides, I don't think CAL gives up Phaneuf for that little. I'm not the biggest Dion fan, but he's not even 25 yet and the last two seasons he put up 60 pts/182 PIM's and 47 pts/100 PIM's (in an off year). He would look good in Black n Gold, but why would they give him up?
Regehr might be a guy that they would be more willing to give up? The offense is struggling right now, but when Looch and Savard return, offer them Ryder for Regehr straight up? The money is the same, they are the same age...it gives CAL a Top 6 RW and gives the B's the big, nasty stay at home guy they need.
Chara-Morris
Regehr-Wideman
Stuart-Hunwick
(That's a pretty good Top 4)
You could even expand the deal a bit and give them back Ference for a pick/prospect or a guy like Sjostrom, who only makes 750K, and is a serviceable RW.
I think we'd have a better shot at aquiring Ray Whitney off the canes. 3.5 mil the rest of the year. Trade them Ference + one of our roster ready young guns and maybe Arniel.
Phaneuf and Jokinen for Wideman, Bergeron/Krejci, and Bos 1st 2010
and
Ryder for Regehr.
I'm a bruins fan living in calgary and I have developed a genuine dislike for flames fans, but really, these are just insulting. Awful value for the flames. I have to apologize. This is embarrassing.
Phaneuf and Jokinen for Wideman, Bergeron/Krejci, and Bos 1st 2010
and
Ryder for Regehr.
I'm a bruins fan living in calgary and I have developed a genuine dislike for flames fans, but really, these are just insulting. Awful value for the flames. I have to apologize. This is embarrassing.
to be fair to myself... i am willing to give up Toronto's first next year if that is what it would take.
Wideman was being called a contender for the Norris Trophy last year even as the second half of the season began, so I dont really think he is total crap. Krecji has been a ppg producer when healthy for more then a season without anyone nearly of Iginla's quality on his wing and is signed for 3.75 for 2 more seasons.
Jokkinen was shopped by Phoenix and we saw what his value was when Calgary got him so cheap... he has since been a big disappointment for them so his value has gone down.
Phaneuf is clearly a very intriguing talent... a potential Norris guy himself... but he just got a gigantic contract and then saw his game go sideways in a hurray. At a cheaper price I am sure he is untouchable... but at 6.75, anyteam dealing for him better view him as a lock to be able to handle 25+ mins a night as a game changing pressence.
The Toronto first this year is looking likely to be a top 5 pick. I am not sure that you couldnt expect next years to be just as good because the changes they made didnt work out for them it seams. Personally, I am shocked cause I really thought they had improved their defense a ton and would be a 500 team???
Bad Chemistry problems there though and still a couple years of bad contracts to sort out with a few of their AHL quality forwards
I really don't see the D being as big a problem with this team as everyone makes it out to be. They have been doing well the past few games. And i dont see how the B's could tie up so much money to two defenceman if this deal were to happen. (Dion and Big Z).
With Brian Burke taking in the Bruins game against the Habs, maybe something is in the works for, oh let's say Phil Kessel
All i'm saying is every team hits a wall at some point. Luckily, ours was at the beginning of the season, Unlike last year when we almost blew a 14 point lead and watch Jersey close to within 2 points before they hit their wall. I am all for waiting until we ice a full, healthy roster, give them a few games to hit their stride, and then see where we are.
I think the only way Phanuef is coming to boston is if Savard is going the other way. I predicted that before the season, this trade would happen.
Obviously though, it's all going to come down to whether Savy wants to sign here at good term though...if he's coming here for 6 million shorter term (3 years), there's no sense in trading him...I just have a feeling now that he wants money more than a black and gold jersey...I've been wrong before though!!!
Also, seeing that Savy and Iginla are friends, and there were reports he was thinking of signing in Calgary before he chose Boston...and apparantly Savy tried to get Iginla here before he re-upped in calgary (that part could have been hearsay)...I don't think Calgary would have a problem resigning him were he traded there.
Savard for Phanuef with possible picks included on both sides - it's a good trade for both teams.
I look to the Rangers. They're loaded with young defensemen like Gilroy, Staal, Del Zotto, Sanguinetti, McDonagh, and others.
I think you could have more luck going to a team like that and taking a guy caught up in that log jam rather than trying to pry away an expensive star from a team trying to win now (e.g., Calgary).
People are balking at giving Savard $6 million a year but are lining up to pay Phaneuf $6.5 million a year for the next several years?
How exactly does Phaneuf help the offense more than Savard?....the Bruins are already solid defensively and in the goal.
Trading for Phaneuf would tie up almost $18 million dollars on 3 defensemen (the others being Chara + Wideman) or is Wideman gone in another trade?
I'm not sure it makes sense to trade for Phaneuf who always seems to look for the big hit when that is the opposite of what the Bruins are coached to do defensively.
Krecji has been a ppg producer when healthy for more then a season
He has?
He was a point a game player for about 1/2 a season one time. His other year he was a .5 pts a game player. This year so far he is a .33 pt a game player.
Even over the 2nd half of last year he wasn't close to a pt a game player.
He had one incredibly hot 20-30 game stretch. I think he's still a talented player who will produce, but he can't be the key piece in a deal for Phaneuf and Jokinen.
I really don't see the D being as big a problem with this team as everyone makes it out to be. They have been doing well the past few games. And i dont see how the B's could tie up so much money to two defenceman if this deal were to happen. (Dion and Big Z).
With Brian Burke taking in the Bruins game against the Habs, maybe something is in the works for, oh let's say Phil Kessel
All i'm saying is every team hits a wall at some point. Luckily, ours was at the beginning of the season, Unlike last year when we almost blew a 14 point lead and watch Jersey close to within 2 points before they hit their wall. I am all for waiting until we ice a full, healthy roster, give them a few games to hit their stride, and then see where we are.
Adding Phaneuf isn't just about not allowing goals. He'd also do wonders for our pp. That said, I just don't see Calgary dealing him for anything less than an equal player at forward back.
He was a point a game player for about 1/2 a season one time. His other year he was a .5 pts a game player. This year so far he is a .33 pt a game player.
Even over the 2nd half of last year he wasn't close to a pt a game player.
He had one incredibly hot 20-30 game stretch. I think he's still a talented player who will produce, but he can't be the key piece in a deal for Phaneuf and Jokinen.
krecji was pretty much a 10-12 min per game guy on a bottom line for much of his first year... then at the end of the season Savard got hurt and Krecji was given first line pp and the top wingers on the team to play with
the result was pretty spectacular
last year Krecji was toying with a place top 20 in scoring all season getting second unit pp time and being stuck with Ryder/Wheeler until the final 20-25 games
at the end of the season he needed surgury. I would suggest that it isnt unbelievable to wonder if he got hurt around the time he slumped? Wheeler hit the wall as a college player adjusting to the long season and Ryder is always streaky.
Maybe his linemates led to some late season slump?
Krecji still isnt getting to be the goto guy with top wingers this season... he was arguably third on the depth chart until Savard got hurt and now you can see that Bergeron is being favored as the top PP guy with the top linemates.
Krecji could easily still be dealing with effects of the surgury.
I think that at his age... producing as he did with such little icetime and specially such little PP time does have value
but the flip side of the argument is that he hasnt really faced dedicated top flight shutdown checking on an ongoing basis yet.
He certainly hasnt had a linemate anywhere near the quality of Iginla. Clagary hasnt had a bonafide good linemate for Iginla in many years. Even Camelleri didnt really fit. Conroy was maybe the best fit and he is normally a 30 point guy on a regular line.
Iginla is magical even by himself... but give him someone with Krecjis passing skills and also Krecji's ability to be good defensively and it starts to become one of the best lines in hockey
Jokkinen is more of a shooter... it is a well known failure now that he just doesnt gel at all with Igninla
Between iginla and Bouwmeester the Flames have 2 guys making a ton of money... then add in Regher and Kipprisoff and the rest of their team needs to start becoming cap friendly
They cant really afford a more proven number 1 center making 5-6...
a guy like bourque needs a new deal next year... and he is more important to the flames for their second line then Jokkinen is for the first.
Flames will need to find money... assuming they want to continue to spend to the cap even. They arent a rich/populous market and only the strong canadien dollar keeps them healthy the last couple years.
a major selling point to them would be the more affordable depth that Wideman/Krecji would offer. I dont really think anyone would view Krecji or Wideman as crap. Wideman has been almost as good offensively as Phaneuf the last couple years at half the cost. He lacks the real physical pressence but neither is a wonderkid in their own end. Bouwmeester has been signed to be the flames 27 min a night stud. Regher is a team canada caliber shut down super stud. A second option to man a second pp unit is the type of guy Flames need more then a 7 million dollar man
As for why Phaneuf would make more sense to us... simply put we have no Regher. Behind Chara, Wideman is counted on to be the number 2 guy. It leaves us shaky when Wideman over plays his ability
if Wideman saw himself as a number 3 I think he would be able to relax more and be more solid
Phaneuf would help our offense a lot. If Savard cant be resigned then sure deal him if he is what Calgary prefers... but if Savard wants 6.5 then he makes no real sense for Calgary.
I think Calgary would find the affordable price of Krecji much more enticing.
I would resign Savard after dealing Krecji/Wideman/Sturm
the end result would be wed lose a draft pick but wed lose Krecji/Wideman/Sturm and be able to add Savard/Phaneuf. We'd have Jokkinen for the rest of this year then someone like Hamil
Wideman, Bitz and Wheeler for Clarkson, Salvador and Bergfors..
id say burrows offers more then wheeler today... but long term id be scared a lot to make that exchange. i think burrows tops out as a 20 goal guy who brings some grit and defense while Wheeler seems like a John Leclair type in the making
Vancouver fans are no happier with Bieska then we are with Wideman... when they are on their A game they look untradable... studs... but then they can go 10-15-20 games at a time where they almost seem to be liabilities
The deal would free up no cap space for us. It would make us marginally better for this years run but not enough to warrent the risk of dealing off such a unique talent like Wheeler for a third line guy.
I have very little opinion of clarkson... i guess he might be better then what i think but last i saw him he was doing nothing to excite me at all. Salvador seems a marginal 4/5 dman right? Bergfors has some decent press at the moment... but I would suggest Wheeler has more. Dont really understand the second proposal at all, but admittedly i dont really have a clear understanding if clarkson is more then a third line type
id say burrows offers more then wheeler today... but long term id be scared a lot to make that exchange. i think burrows tops out as a 20 goal guy who brings some grit and defense while Wheeler seems like a John Leclair type in the making
Vancouver fans are no happier with Bieska then we are with Wideman... when they are on their A game they look untradable... studs... but then they can go 10-15-20 games at a time where they almost seem to be liabilities
The deal would free up no cap space for us. It would make us marginally better for this years run but not enough to warrent the risk of dealing off such a unique talent like Wheeler for a third line guy.
I have very little opinion of clarkson... i guess he might be better then what i think but last i saw him he was doing nothing to excite me at all. Salvador seems a marginal 4/5 dman right? Bergfors has some decent press at the moment... but I would suggest Wheeler has more. Dont really understand the second proposal at all, but admittedly i dont really have a clear understanding if clarkson is more then a third line type
Bergfors, THEY'RE talking like now he has to impress LL or he's gone, Clarkson is a Lucic type MW(don't think we need another of those) and Salvador-Wideman the only link between them is both played or were drafted/rescued from St. Louis.
I think it might be fair to wonder if theres one out there that could make some sense both to turn this season around and set ourselves up for next year too.
I was thinking a lot about it the last few days and wondering how we could find someone with some offensive touch that might be available. Cap issues are such a major obstacle. I was thinking how we probably do need to move some of our own salary for next season to free up room to keep Savard.
What I ended up with is a look at Calgary where Olli Jokkinen and Jarome Iginla go togther like vinegar and water. Calgary has to view itself as a potential cup contender but they have no true number one center since Jokkinen and Iginla are so incompatible. Jokkinen is an UFA next year which helps us free up room for Savard.
Calgary has a ton of cap room tied up in Phaneuf... but he struggled a lot last year and might not be worth everything he is being paid. They also have over 10 mill committed to Bouwmeister and Regher who are bonafide 1/2 guys.
Phaneuf would look real sweet here. He would be a massive upgrade over Wideman.
So my suggestion would be to send one of Bergeron/Krecji along with Wideman and probably one of the first round picks we have in the next couple drafts {not the toronto one this year though} all for Jokkinen/Phaneuf
The move would add about 4 mill cap hit to us this year so we'd need another deal to jettison someone like Sturm or Ryder but then we are able to sign Savard and I think the overall effect puts us ahead in the game.
I would suggest that Jokkinen should be shifted to wing and paired up with Savard and maybe possibly Wheeler on a new front line for us once Savard gets healthy. Jokkinen has been good for 30-40 goals for the past few years now without a setup man of Savard's caliber to play with.
I guess I would think Sturm would be the guy most movable between he and Ryder... so that would leave Ryder here to play with Bergeron or Krecji and I guess Lucic for our new number 2 line. It is a good enough top 6 for us to win with.
Sobotka would probably be allowed to stick around in our third line and we could keep Marchard around if he keeps his energy levels up. Buyout Recchi to free up some cap space after the deals. Paille has impressed me enough that I think a line of he and the kids would have decent potential to be okay.
Are blueline would have a huge facelift after the trade. Phaneuf gets Chara to pair up with so he can settle down and get back to the monster form he was showing a couple years ago. Huge bonus to our PP to have Phaneuf back there with Jokkinen our new guy to screen the goalie.
Morris can drop down to second pair and help provide more stability to Stuart or Hunwick then either Ferrence or Wideman currently offer.
As for why Calgary would make the trade... it does shave a few million off their current payroll. It gives them a future first round draft choice which is always good. They get a center that might have some serious magic with Iginla. Wideman is signed for a few years and would be a very decent number 3 guy for them behind Bouwmeester/Regher for a far more managable cost then Phaneuf.
Im actually thinking Sturm might be worth a decent pick or prospect if we dealt him to an offensive starved team. I know he has a NTC, but I am reasonably sure hed waive it if he was ok with the destination.
Id love to see a new PP with Savard back healthy up front quarterbacking... Jokkinen around to screen... Maybe Ryder as the shooter in the slot.... Phaneuf and Chara manning the points
The survivor of Bergeron/Krecji available for the second unit with Morris/Hunwick on the points and the other two spots awarded to whomever is hot at the given moment
Okay, repeat after me: no trade clause, no trade clause, no trade clause!
Anyway, he plays so inconsistently would you trade for him if he didn't have a: no trade clause?
Okay, repeat after me: no trade clause, no trade clause, no trade clause!
Anyway, he plays so inconsistently would you trade for him if he didn't have a: no trade clause?
theres been many many many guys that got traded with no trade clauses
when interviewed many said they didnt want to ever be traded. sometimes they have said they do want to be traded
sometimes they dont make any public comments at all
we see some cases like in toronto where guys like sundin and kubina and tucker visciously fought against a potential trade
all a ntc means is a player cant be dealt without consent. when he has talked about his ntc, sturm has said he loves boston and doesnt want to be dealt
its smart for him to say this... very uncontroversial
obviously before he could be dealt we'd have to go to him and talk to him... hed have to probably say something like deal me to team A or B or C and i will approve it. Then wed go to those teams and see if they wanted him.
Im no mind reader... Im unsure what teams he would agree to. I am unsure if they would accept him
Unfortunately to make my trade proposal work his contract needs to come off the books. His or Ryders. If he was to try to hold onto his NTC Id probably have to demote him
I think a trade to get Phaneuf here would be enough of a positive to me to be willing to tell Sturm accept a deal or go to the AHL
Hate to do it cause hes a good guy from all appearances... but this is a team that is spending 7.5 on chara... 5+ on thomas... another 5 on savard... all are getting older and having their contracts run out too.
We are built for a win now mentality and its a very high stakes poker game. The play of the team this season is the type of play that causes empty seats and unsold tickets to happen if its not addressed.
Phaneuf would be a fan favorite with his more physical style. Jokkinen is a legitimate good front line player when he is in his zone. Giving Savard a legit talent to play and 2 talents of this magnitude getting added to the PP could go a long ways towards getting us winning again... sell the tickets and get us into the playoffs deep hopefully
simply cant let an overpaid third liner's ntc mess that option up
