Official Team Canada Players Discussion: Who should/not be on the team
I thought I'd create this thread so that people can talk about who they think should and shouldnt be on the team being that it's almost november and we're around a month away from the team being named.
I'm not really looking for people to create page after page of lineups because it gets boring and repetitive.
I'd rather have a discussion where people post 1 or 2 players and state why they should or shouldnt be on the team.
I'll start it off with a guy (and i'm sure I'll get a ton of flak for this) who IMO shouldnt be on the team based on his play so far.
Jarome Iginla. The guy is NOT the same player who was dominant at one time of his career. He's had a terrible start and is on pace to score less than 30 goals. He lacks the footspeed and seems to have lost a gear.
The game at the Olympics is all about speed and fighting isnt allowed. Iginla isnt known to be the biggest hitter either and I question why he should have a role on this team. He didnt show much at the previous Olympics (although not many people did). There are alot of faster and younger players that seem to have what Iginla has. I dont know how much a guy can be a leader on the ice if he can't lead by example. I'm sure Crosby WILL be the dominant player on the Canadian squad.
Right now, I'd rather take a guy like Marty St.Louis. Similar in age except he's a more accomplished veteran. Hart Trophy and Stanley Cup champion.
Feel free to argue this or add someone else.
For visiting people who think that I"m just saying this because he's a flame, i also dont think Luongo should be the starter. I'd probably go with Fleury or Brodeur.
You won't take any flak from me about Iginla. He has been downright average to this point. I'm sure if you asked most flames fans they would agree. However, they would surely go on to tell you that he's been a premier player for a number of years and he is likely to rediscover that form before too long. The other point to be made regarding this guy is that Yzerman is probably very aware of the mistakes of the last Olympics. The team brought many players who were past their olympic form in an attempt to form a solid leadership group from the old guard. This would suggest that he will be cautious regarding underperforming veterans.
Thornton and Heatley both have to be on the team, and have to be on the same line. Despite the questions about them going into this year, they've developed undeniable chemistry and look absolutely deadly together. They will provide a ton of goals.
Iginla is historically a slow starter I think. Don't count him out. He needs to be on the team, and I think the first line should be him with Nash and Crosby. Big and skilled. That line will get it done.
One more is, I feel Shane Doan deserves a spot on the 4th line. The guy's a great all around player, has an edge to his game, and let's be honest, playing so long in Phoenix he has to be hungry as **** to play in games that mean something.
Luongo and Brodeur are and will remain locks for the team. I don't know who will start. My guess is whoever is hotter going into the Olympics. Ward and Fleury will battle for the #3 spot. Fleury has the clear advantage right now.
Ryan Getzlaf has played his way off of the team, for me, so far.
I hate the Flames with a massive passion, but Jarome Iginla, despite an average October, should and will be the first or 2nd RW on Team Canada. He's our country's best pure RW goal-scorer.
Most (and I emphasize 'most') of the best pure goal-scorers in the history of the game (save Gretzky and Lemieux, and Europians with ridiculous blazing speed, that Canada does not have) needed exceptional playmakers with a 'pass-first' mentality to be as successful as they are/were. The Calgary Flames do not, and never have, had such a kind of player in Iginla's time as a Flame, and he still consistently puts up great numbers. Sidney Crosby will be the #1 C and Thornton and Geztlaf (despite his below average first 11 games) should be 2 and 3. All elite playmakers.
I think I was fairly smart on my first point of this post, but I may be a dummy on this part.
My darkhorse to be on considered for a 4th line spot is Ryan Johnson.
Bad joke, but I'm actually thinking about Dustin Penner.
Numbers aside, he just looks good and is playing well and using the assets he has as a player. Obviously Nash and Heatley should have the first 2 LW spots. The number 3 and 4 LW should (IMO) go to a natural left-handed Centre (Brad Richards, Patrick Marleau, Eric Staal or Lecavalier for example, despite horrendous starts offensively for Staal and Lecavalier), and a player who can play a rugged and responsible game - a ***** disturber in the offensive zone and on the fore-check. Such canditates are Smyth, Morrow, Lucic, and Penner.
Just my opionion, even though I didn't state 'IMO' after every point I made sound like locks.
Last edited by In Gillis We Trust: 10-31-2009 at 05:54 AM.
Sydney Crosby is a no brainer.
Joe Thornton, despite all the flack is the 4th best offensive player in the world.
Those are the only two locks, after that it should be a combination of who's hot and who's proven. A guy like Penner is too risky. By the same token, Iginla may have the track record, but, unless he turns it around, he's iffy.
And Mike Richards is a borderline lock due to him being the best defensive forward who can also produce.
So my rough forward corps:
Nash-Crosby-Perry
Marleau-Thornton-Heatley (Not sure if that is the actual line, but production implies it.)
Morrow-M. Richards-St. Louis
Smyth-B. Richards-Cammalleri
Stamkos and Iginla as the spares
So many other players I would have expected, but that makes for an interesting line-up.
Defence is very interesting. Probably 20 guys who are good enough, but probably no locks. Mike Green is probably the closest to a lock as it's hard to argue against say he's the best offensive d-man in the world.
Pronger-Green
Keith-Seabrook
Bouwmeester-Boyle
Neidermeyer (Although, if he doesn't pick it up he'd be dropped, but his past record makes him hard to drop. I'd have Shea Weber take his spot if need be.)
Goaltender is of course the biggest area of concern for Canucks fans. This should be Luongo's job. But injuries and inconsistancy have prevented him from locking it up. Given his play thus far and that he's coming off a Stanley Cup win, I'd have to give Fluery the starting job.
Fluery
Brodeur
Luongo
But Ward, Mason, Anderson, Emery or Turco could sneak in. All that I feel comfortable locking in is Fluery as a starter. And, as long as he's healthy, Brodeur will likely be there in some capacity.
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Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
Great post Nalyd Psycho. Some interesting and very questionable selections and obvious ommissions IMO though.
Iginla as a spare forward - 0% chance. I know I'm in the minority so far in this thread, but Iginla will be a top 2 line RW.
Dany Heatley is not a RW. Although the idea of an all San Jose line sounds great, it's very likely that's not an option.
I like Cammelleri, but I'd say he's not a consideration whatsoever.
Shea Weber is on obvious omission. Replace him with Seabrook and I agree with your D selections.
Fleury as a lock for a starter is a bit of a stretch I'd say as well. Luongo, Brodeur, and Fleury all have a pretty equal shot of being #1, 2, or 3. It would take Cam Ward or Steve Mason to be lights-out from here on til selction time for them to not be the 3 tenders.
Craig Anderson is American.
Last edited by In Gillis We Trust: 10-31-2009 at 06:33 AM.
But Ward, Mason, Anderson, Emery or Turco could sneak in. All that I feel comfortable locking in is Fluery as a starter. And, as long as he's healthy, Brodeur will likely be there in some capacity.
Too bad Anderson is American, though.
Anyways, I completely disagree with your assessment of Iginla. He was, is, and will be an absolute lock. Hell, he could almost be captain. He's having a slow start, but I have absolutely not doubt in my mind that he's on the team.
Crosby is a lock.
Thornton and Heatley are too good to not be on the team.
Marleau is a definite candidate also for a lock.
Hard to say Nash isn't a lock either...
Mike Richards is a lock given his very well rounded defensive game w/ offensive flare. We tend to forget he was a Selke candidate along with Kesler and Datsyuk.
For the maybes, I'm going to have to throw in Stamkos. He's having an incredible season thus far, and I have no doubt he will be a superstar next year, but he's too young.
Carter is a maybe for me too. Despite his breakout year in '08/'09, he's been a little rough around the edges. He's going to have to really turn it up to get a top 6 centre spot. I don't think he's a suitable checker.
Cammalleri is a definite maybe for me for some odd reason. I just don't think he's good enough right now. I hope he proves me wrong.
Toews is a maybe. He's got great defensive awareness and it shows - even when he doesn't score, he's always, always, always a plus player. He's having a slow start, but he'll pick it up undoubtedly.
In terms of the NO category, I'm going to have to say Brent Seabrook. Our D is just too deep for us to accommodate him. I can think of a few more d-men that play his style of defence, but only better.
Brent Burns is a ridiculous nomination. I'd rather have Willie Mitchell on the team than him.
Robyn Regehr is a no for me. He used to be a premier shut down d-man, but not so much anymore. He had a very average performance last year as well. Don't get me wrong, he's good, but not Team Canada material.
Veteran guys, who have been good players throughout their career, you give them time to get going,” Yzerman said. “They generally, for the most part, always get it going. They get a little more leeway from our perspective.
“You give a veteran guy more leeway than a young guy who doesn’t have the body of work that a veteran does. In general, veteran guys need time to get going. They’ve played a lot of hockey.”
Iginila appears to be past-prime, stretching back a couple of years now. Heck of a tough decision to make, but bottom line is he isn't playing well enough to make the team.
Luongo - sorry - too inconsistent. Brodeur as well, but he can ride the team bus "just in case".
Thornton/Heatley - sorry - Joe has been there before and disappeared, I don't put either on the team.
So I'm thinking something like....
In Goal:
Mason & Fleury. Brodeur gets the veteran just-in-case backup role.
On D:
Seabrook, Keith, Bouwemeester, Pronger, Boyle, Weber as the vets, Del Zotto and Doughty as the next-gen taste test. I really really want Niedermayer but let's be frank - he is finally starting to look a little aged out there. If he gets it going in the next few weeks, then bring him, yes!
Plus who knows what kind of surprises lurking from the KHL.
Weak spot is the D - if we're going to beat these guys we'll need to physically forecheck the snot out of them - 'cause those forwards start playing in our end and it won't much matter who is in goal.
Its on small ice so multi dimensional players should be chosen over simply "speed and danglz".
Iginla is on the team without me blinking an eye.
If he turns it around within the next 2-3wks, then I think he should be going. But this guy should not be chosen on the simple argument that he's a veteran and proven alot in the past.
His lack of speed, regardless of the ice surface will be on display.
If he gets the benefit of the doubt, so should Getzlaf (both of which have had terrible starts to the season by their standards).
Dado - Mason has played himself off the team. I have no idea how you have Kunitz part of team Canada. I personally wouldnt have Penner, Smyth or Clowe on there either.
If he turns it around within the next 2-3wks, then I think he should be going. But this guy should not be chosen on the simple argument that he's a veteran and proven alot in the past.
His lack of speed, regardless of the ice surface will be on display.
He's the second fastest 50 goal scorer Canada has.
Nash Crosby Iginla
Perry Thornton Heatley
Marleau Getzlaf J. Carter
Lucic M. Richards E. Staal
Toews
Pronger Phaneuf
Burns Boyle
Bouwmeester Kieth
Weber
Brodeur
Luongo
Fleury
Last edited by LostMyGlasses: 10-31-2009 at 01:20 PM.
Either way, good line up- what about defence and goal?
Mike Richards, defense is less interesting due to the wealth of talent we have. My thoughts on goaltending is that one of Ward, Fleury, Mason, or Turco will join Luongo and Brodeur on the roster, and they will then fight it out for the starting job all the way up to the break.
And just for fun, I posted this in another thread about regional teams:
Come on.
Anyone who thinks Iginla should not be on the team is nuts.
Iginla has been an amazing player for a long time and is still a dominant forward. Sure, he has had a slow start...so are we gonna boot Luongo off of the team, too?
I'm no Flames fan, obviously, but in my opinion, Iginla should be team captain.
And Luongo should be the starting goaltender.
He's the second fastest 50 goal scorer Canada has.
Nash Crosby Iginla
Perry Thornton Heatley
Marleau Getzlaf J. Carter
Lucic M. Richards E. Staal
Toews
I like Lucic on that team as he provides a physical edge. Same with Richards.
I know Iginla will be on the team but the last Olympics should have taught hockey canada that people should earn their spot.
Still not sold on Carter, if he has a good november/early dec then he should be there. I also wouldnt count out a guy like Sharp. Pretty versatile player.
I think one of Ryan Getzlaf or Brad Richards will make the team, but not both. Also, I think Niedermayer makes the team based on his history, experience and leadership and that JayBo could sub in for one of the the other players other than Pronger/Green who I consider "locks". I also see Morrow, Smyth and Doan as inter changable parts on a "checking" line that can also score. I also believe the team will bring either Stamkos or Toews as a 14th forward.
Last edited by Peter Griffin: 10-31-2009 at 01:45 PM.
Come on.
Anyone who thinks Iginla should not be on the team is nuts.
Iginla has been an amazing player for a long time and is still a dominant forward. Sure, he has had a slow start...so are we gonna boot Luongo off of the team, too?
I'm no Flames fan, obviously, but in my opinion, Iginla should be team captain.
And Luongo should be the starting goaltender.
I disagree with Luongo being the starter. He has to prove it. Perhaps we'll see all 3 goalies in the prelim games to see how they perform.
Iginla, like i said earlier needs to step up his game. He didnt do that in the playoffs last season, or the last 4 for that matter.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for the guy. He's a great ambassador for the league and a posterboy for sportsmanship off the ice and leadership on it. He (IMO) has taken a step back last year and this year in terms of effectiveness. It seems like since Cooke isnt here to piss him off that he becomes less and less of a factor everytime we play.
I'd hate to see it be a mistake like taking Bertuzzi to the past Olympics.
Iginila appears to be past-prime, stretching back a couple of years now. Heck of a tough decision to make, but bottom line is he isn't playing well enough to make the team.
Luongo - sorry - too inconsistent. Brodeur as well, but he can ride the team bus "just in case".
Thornton/Heatley - sorry - Joe has been there before and disappeared, I don't put either on the team.
So I'm thinking something like....
In Goal:
Mason & Fleury. Brodeur gets the veteran just-in-case backup role.
On D:
Seabrook, Keith, Bouwemeester, Pronger, Boyle, Weber as the vets, Del Zotto and Doughty as the next-gen taste test. I really really want Niedermayer but let's be frank - he is finally starting to look a little aged out there. If he gets it going in the next few weeks, then bring him, yes!
Plus who knows what kind of surprises lurking from the KHL.
Weak spot is the D - if we're going to beat these guys we'll need to physically forecheck the snot out of them - 'cause those forwards start playing in our end and it won't much matter who is in goal.
Luongo - sorry - too inconsistent. Brodeur as well, but he can ride the team bus "just in case". In Goal:
Mason & Fleury. Brodeur gets the veteran just-in-case backup role.
Luongo's too inconsistent, but Mason gets a green light? You realize Mason's save % is .881 and his GAA are 3.48 so far this season? Luongo's at .902 and 2.79.
Nash - Crosby - Iginla
Heatley - Thornton - Marleau (if he keeps up this level of play)
Stamkos - Mike Richards - Morrow
Perry - Getzlaf - Doan
Pronger - Niedermayer (Cannot keep Niedermayer off the team based on this year on a bad team so far. The dude is still a stud. Make him captain and pair him back up with Pronger.)
Green - Bouwmeester
Boyle - Weber
Seabrook
