I get why it's the dominate style used by goaltenders. Low shots have less chance hitting the back of the net with the goalie's legs spread out.
But it sometimes looks pathetic when a shooter has the skill and calm to put the puck up high. By doing this, the goalie can be made to look very ineffective, and downright stupid. And deflections that go high can have the same effect.
Am I the only one that doesn't like the butterfly style because it is not athletic enough, and it can be feeble sometimes?
Will the butterfly style of goaltending remain the dominate style as long as hockey is played because it works the best?
Or will a standup style ever return as the favourite? You know, coming out to the front of the crease, glove hand ready.
1. there's this thing called gravity... it causes the puck to stay near the bottom portion of the net a lot of the time.
2. The butterfly allows for quick lateral movement around the net.
3. it allows the entire body to be used to block a shot, instead of standup where a good portion of the upper body would not be used by goaltenders.
and those are just a few examples... there are so many more but i don't feel like explaining... there will never be a change from the butterly, it is the most effective goaltending technique.
Percentages. Cover the bottom portion you only leave a small percentage of the net open, usually the top half. Also, most shots on net are on the lower half than the top
If you're on your skates standing up, you cover a smaller percentage from the bottom portion of the net as well as the blocker and glove side.
It's also faster and there's better mobility. Jumping across, diving or throwing your legs into a pad stack like most stand up goalies do, you're moving slower than you would if you were to push off one leg and slide across your crease.
People need to remember that the butterfly doens't always mean the goalie is down on his knees. A good butterfly goalie will know when to go down and when to stay up.
Brodeur is the last of his kind. Stand-up Hybrid Butter-fly goalie. I think part of the reason I like him so much is his now unique and old fashioned style. He gets the job done and he is so mobile compared to most butterfly goalies. I know some butteryfly goalies can play the puck well, but Brodeur takes it to another level.
I think it takes a lot more skill and hockey instincts to play the way Brodeur does and not many people can do it at a professional level.
Butterfly requires in my mind less skill and hockey instincts. Its based on positioning and playing the odds. Obviously a more skilled goalie can play it better then most. But I believe the Butterfly gives average goalies a chance to be elite and play above their means.
Brodeur is the last of his kind. Stand-up Hybrid Butter-fly goalie. I think part of the reason I like him so much is his now unique and old fashioned style. He gets the job done and he is so mobile compared to most butterfly goalies. I know some butteryfly goalies can play the puck well, but Brodeur takes it to another level.
I think it takes a lot more skill and hockey instincts to play the way Brodeur does and not many people can do it at a professional level.
Butterfly requires in my mind less skill and hockey instincts. Its based on positioning and playing the odds. Obviously a more skilled goalie can play it better then most. But I believe the Butterfly gives average goalies a chance to be elite and play above their means.
Do I hate the butterfly? yes for the most part.
Agreed, it's why so many goalies appear very good and why scoring is down so much. But a goalie with real talent can make the most of it by using a modified hybrid style.
There are rarely any "saves" left in hockey. Goalies now a days basically block the puck. Get into a good position to make the save and make it look easy.
Am I the only one that doesn't like the butterfly style because it is not athletic enough, and it can be feeble sometimes?
The butterfly style is very athletic. I've seen players who tried goalie for a trainning when a net was empty. These guys weren't effective AT ALL, and they were just DEAD after two exercises which are usually used to warm up the goalie. So they finish to adopt an horrible ******* **** position also known as the stand up position because they don't have enough breathe and strength to go down on there knees.
You should try, just one time.
Last edited by Doctor No: 10-29-2009 at 11:19 AM.
Reason: Let the profanity filters do their job.
There are rarely any "saves" left in hockey. Goalies now a days basically block the puck. Get into a good position to make the save and make it look easy.
A save is a save no matter how it's done.
Yes, there used to be more sensational saves before the butterfly but goalies also looked ridiculous by routinely letting in easy shots.
I get why it's the dominate style used by goaltenders. Low shots have less chance hitting the back of the net with the goalie's legs spread out.
But it sometimes looks pathetic when a shooter has the skill and calm to put the puck up high. By doing this, the goalie can be made to look very ineffective, and downright stupid. And deflections that go high can have the same effect.
Am I the only one that doesn't like the butterfly style because it is not athletic enough, and it can be feeble sometimes?
Will the butterfly style of goaltending remain the dominate style as long as hockey is played because it works the best?
Or will a standup style ever return as the favourite? You know, coming out to the front of the crease, glove hand ready.
Butterfly takes a lot, A LOT, more athleticism than stand up does. I can see where that might not be intuitive, but jumping down up and down off your knees and moving side to side in that position takes a lot of energy, effort, and skill. When I'm being lazy in practice I play stand up until my coach yells at me.
A lot of people say stand up is so much more exciting, but I don't see it. I think a stand up goalie letting in low dinky shots right around his legs looks a lot more pathetic than a butterfly goalie letting in an elevated shot. I cringe every time I watch old high lights and those low shots, that any decent youth goalie would have 11 out of 10 times today, go in over and over again.
It also means that if a shot is elevated glove side it does take more skill to stop it, and a high glove save robbing an open net is a hell of a lot more impressive looking than a shot bouncing off the chest simply due to proper positioning (and not athleticism).
butterfly style is high percentage. it really cuts down on goals from guys that have an average shot. it takes a real gunner to consistantly hit those high corners. that said broduer is not the last of the hybrid goalies that not only block the puck but make saves as well.
Varlamov is an athletic mix of Broduer and Hasek(Hasek was not a butterfly goalie). You will have goalies like Mason in St Louis who are big and just close off the net in the butterfly, but then there will be other goalies that employ the butterfly as a tactic, but have other ways of stopping the puck when that is called.
The base way of beating the butterfly is lateral movement of the puck. Goalies like MAF and Varlamov go beyond textbook butterfly.
The butterfly style is very athletic. I've seen players who tried goalie for a trainning when a net was empty. These guys weren't effective AT ALL, and they were just DEAD after two exercises which are usually used to warm up the goalie. So they finish to adopt an horrible f***ing s**t position also known as the stand up position because they don't have enough breathe and strength to go down on there knees.
You should try, just one time.
If you (not the poster I'm quoting, more towards the OP and any one else who thinks butterfly isn't as athletic as standup ) wanna get an idea.... think jumping jacks.
Think about doing 30 minutes worth of jumping jacks in an hour span. The average guy could probably do it and be pretty darn tired by the end.
Now think about doing 30 minutes worth of jumping jacks where you jump onto your knees every time you go into a wide stance, then jump off your knees back onto your feet when you go into a tall stance, in an hour span.
Now think about 30 minutes worth of jumping jacks where you jump on and off your knees and constantly move back and forth over a semicircle 16 feet in circumference. Oh yeah, and you don't get to use your arms to help move your weight, keep those planted at about half an arms length in front of you and don't move them. How long till you puke?
Comparatively, turn on your TV for an hour, stand up, take steps side to side, occasionally lie down on your couch and hop back up, and that'll give you an idea of the athleticism required for stand up.
Its hard to use Brodeur as an example of a bygone era when he is one of the greatest talents the sport has ever seen. Just because Gretz used a wood stick most of his career doesn't mean there isn't a better way of doing things nowadays. I'd bet that if Brodeur were born a couple decades later he would be a world class butterfly netminder. Hell, his numbers would probably even be better than what they are.
Brodeur also uses a lot of butterfly in his style these days as well. I don't think you can consider him a standup goalie at all (honestly he'd get lit up if he was a pure standup goalie)
i can't even believe some of the things i'm reading in this thread. Butterfly goalies don't save the puck they block it??? what does that even mean. the job is to keep the puck out of the net by any means neccessary. And speaking as a guy that's played the position at a high level all my life, 27 years old, so i transitioned with everyone else from the older gear to the newer butterfly stuff, let me tell you, its very very difficult to play a true butterfly style.
its torture on the knees, hips ,and ankles. i still say a mix of butterfly and a hasek style is the best way to play (think turco/dipietro) stand up is awful, i never did it, even as a kid, you have zero control, but you need to at the same time flop a little. i see alot of goals happen because bfly goalies stick to technique instead of their instincts trying to get up on push legs instead of just throwing whatever the closest body part is to the puck in desperation.
the true bfly guys also spend very little time developing their hands because they are taught to play technique first. If a guy beats u high on a good shot he beats you nothing you can do just stick to the system. for guys my age we were growing up still relying on reflexes more than anything, so good guys my age can still stop the puck up high.
i worry that kids growing up now will look alot like carey price up top. a good bfly goalie can dominate at every level until he gets to the nhl. guys just aren't talented enough to pick top corners all day in juniors, college etc believe me. but go up against even top 9 nhlers and with time, they'll bury you all day long. The thing is you don't have much time in the nhl so the buttefly will continue to be dominant and you will see even less guys like turco mike smith rick dipietro tim thomas in the game and more mason's lehtonen's and price's. not because a hybrid style isnt better because it is (and im not talking brodeur's style that works for him but for no one else at this level) but because kids just aren't taught to rely on the buttefly AND instincts.
every kid out there wants to be Marc Andre Fleury only thing is fleury is in his mid 20s and learned to play goal on reflexes FIRST like the rest of us in this age group. i think buttefly should not be taught until you are in your teens. let kids grow up learning to use their hands and feet. the athletic ones will rise to the top and incorporate a butterfly system that works for them. you don't need to be sliding around the crease ALL DAY just because. and while we're at it just because a guy puts one under the bar doesnt mean you shouldn't have a shot at stopping it with the glove/blocker. stay on your feet long enough and you CAN MAKE THOSE SAVES even when going down into a butterfly/hybrid drop. Guys just go down to soon because they don't trust their reflexes enough OR thats all they know
Until shooters learn to pick corners (ala Lemieux), the butterfly is here to stay. Having said that, there is at least one area where stand up is better than butterfly, the shootout....every shooter tries to get a goalie moving in order to go 5 hole, but most shooters have a tougher time with guys who employ stand-up. And since most can't hit corners worth a damn, advantage goes to the goalie....
1. there's this thing called gravity... it causes the puck to stay near the bottom portion of the net a lot of the time.
2. The butterfly allows for quick lateral movement around the net.
3. it allows the entire body to be used to block a shot, instead of standup where a good portion of the upper body would not be used by goaltenders.
and those are just a few examples... there are so many more but i don't feel like explaining... there will never be a change from the butterly, it is the most effective goaltending technique.
Although I think the butterfly style is much better, how would gravity actually be a factor? All professional hockey players can hit the top shelf from the blue line which is the furthest place you're going to take an actual shot on. Does gravity seriously affect a puck flying at 90+ mph that much?
There are rarely any "saves" left in hockey. Goalies now a days basically block the puck. Get into a good position to make the save and make it look easy.
"Spectacular saves are made by goalies who are caught out of position." - Kevin Constantine
Butterfly takes a lot, A LOT, more athleticism than stand up does. I can see where that might not be intuitive, but jumping down up and down off your knees and moving side to side in that position takes a lot of energy, effort, and skill. When I'm being lazy in practice I play stand up until my coach yells at me.
A lot of people say stand up is so much more exciting, but I don't see it. I think a stand up goalie letting in low dinky shots right around his legs looks a lot more pathetic than a butterfly goalie letting in an elevated shot. I cringe every time I watch old high lights and those low shots, that any decent youth goalie would have 11 out of 10 times today, go in over and over again.
It also means that if a shot is elevated glove side it does take more skill to stop it, and a high glove save robbing an open net is a hell of a lot more impressive looking than a shot bouncing off the chest simply due to proper positioning (and not athleticism).
Officially my favorite post/poster, thinking about sending a friend request just cause of this
