Kinda backs up the view around here that Flip gets rocked on a nightly basis and also that Cleary puts a lot of wear and tear on his body. But does Datsyuk's inclusion stick out to anyone? With him being so high on this list, I think it shows how injured the guy was to start the season. No way does a healthy Datsyuk get tagged that often.
Also, further down the article, it has to be noticed how the bigger, more physical guys strangely get hit less. MacLeod makes a point of saying that it can be just as painful throwing a hit as recieving one but, personally, I think it's almost always better to be on the giving end of things. Though, instead of size, maybe this should be broken up by how assertive players are. May takes the play to the opposition. So does Draper. Gator, who takes a ton of hits, still comes out on the plus side by throwing a ton of hits.
With the discussion of puck possession and the Wings not benig "patient" enough, I think there's also got to be a certain level of aggression to back the other team off a bit.
I'd be interested to see this broken down further by games in which May has played, and those in which he didn't. That would show whether Babcock's theory is credible.
I'd be interested to see this broken down further by games in which May has played, and those in which he didn't. That would show whether Babcock's theory is credible.
and if it's largely just May's linemates who get hit less. Maltby breaks even but hasn't Leino-Flip-Cleary been a line most of the season?
Just keep in mind that you can't hit a guy unless he has the puck. If they're hanging on to it too long, they'll get rocked because that's how the other team will play them. Obvious targets are going to be Dats, Z and Flip. The other two are probably better at getting out of the way and getting rid of the puck quickly, but effectively.
Cleary goes to the really high traffic areas. He's always in front of the net or on the boards. Furthermore, if you have that style of game-- crash the net and dump in -- that makes it more likely that he has tob be in those areas more often than not.
Just keep in mind that if your name isn't Hal Gill you can't hit a guy unless he has the puck. If they're hanging on to it too long, they'll get rocked because that's how the other team will play them. Obvious targets are going to be Dats, Z and Flip. The other two are probably better at getting out of the way and getting rid of the puck quickly, but effectively.
Cleary goes to the really high traffic areas. He's always in front of the net or on the boards. Furthermore, if you have that style of game-- crash the net and dump in -- that makes it more likely that he has tob be in those areas more often than not.
Bruce has an interesting post up about Wings players throwing hits and getting hit. Here's the five forwards who have been hit the most:
Kinda backs up the view around here that Flip gets rocked on a nightly basis and also that Cleary puts a lot of wear and tear on his body. But does Datsyuk's inclusion stick out to anyone? With him being so high on this list, I think it shows how injured the guy was to start the season. No way does a healthy Datsyuk get tagged that often.
Also, further down the article, it has to be noticed how the bigger, more physical guys strangely get hit less. MacLeod makes a point of saying that it can be just as painful throwing a hit as recieving one but, personally, I think it's almost always better to be on the giving end of things. Though, instead of size, maybe this should be broken up by how assertive players are. May takes the play to the opposition. So does Draper. Gator, who takes a ton of hits, still comes out on the plus side by throwing a ton of hits.
With the discussion of puck possession and the Wings not benig "patient" enough, I think there's also got to be a certain level of aggression to back the other team off a bit.
I do not think those hit by Kronwall would agree with that.
Anyone also read the article that said Filppula's line has drawn the most penalties and have sent the team to the PP 9 times in 7 games? I'll try and find the link. Just confirms what a great start to the season Flip is having.
In 80 regular sesaon games as a Penguin, Hal Gill recieved a total 69 penalty minutes. That's .863 a game.
In his other 237 regular season games with Boston, Toronto and now Montreal, Hal Gill has been called for 284 PIMs. That's 1.198 a game.
What a 'coincidence'.
Mod: deleted.
Oh no, league conspiracy! Gary Bettman and the refs stole the Cup from the Wings last year!
Not trying to antagonize but I know Wings fans are smarter / have more hockey wisdom than that. A few of you guys sound like New York Knick fans (and players) in the 90s always *****ing that they would've been winning championships if the refs didn't love Michael Jordan so much. Couldn't have been that the Bulls beat them in 4 or 5 playoff series because they were the better team each (hard-fought) series. Of course, had Michael Jordan been a Knick, they would've treated him and talked about him openly as if he were a Babe Ruth like icon.
It was a close series that could've gone either way, both teams got breaks and bad calls, but the Pens found a way to win. Let's not imply it was given to them by the refs. Hal Gill wasn't called for bad hits just as often as Detroit wasn't called for their artful means of setting "moving picks" throughout both series. Good teams do what they have to to win. As people who've watched the Wings and Pistons over the years maybe you should let the Hal Gill stuff go, having seen many analogs in Detroit?
It wasn't the deciding factor. If anything, Osgood was. I don't know how good Jimmy Howard is going to be but I'm surprised Holland has let things go this far with Ozzy. Time for a change?
Last edited by Fugu: 10-22-2009 at 04:30 PM.
Reason: qdp
Oh no, league conspiracy! Gary Bettman and the refs stole the Cup from the Wings last year!
So then you don't see anything interesting about a guy recieving around 38% fewer PIMs a night on one team than on three other teams, all in the same Conference?
So then you don't see anything interesting about a guy recieving around 38% fewer PIMs a night on one team than on three other teams, all in the same Conference?
It's fairly easy to think of reasons for this without resorting to mindnumbing conspiracy theories.
So what is your theory? I watched him when played in Boston and his play with Pitt was no different.
I don't have a theory. I can think of several. And they aren't outlandish.
Why did Brad Stuart's PIMs go from 67 in 63 games with LA to 26 in 67 with Detroit?
Here are some guesses:
1. The Wings are a better team, and put Stuart in less positions where he had to take penalties.
2. The Wings style is less physical and more finesse
3. The Wings have the puck more than the Kings did, and therefore, there is less reason to take penalties.
4. The Wings coach might frown on minor penalties more than LA's coach.
Or, does Stuarts' PIM total show a league conspiracy to help Detroit make it to the finals only to lose to the Penguins?
Mod: deleted.
Last edited by Fugu: 10-22-2009 at 10:34 PM.
Reason: You know why.
It's fairly easy to think of reasons for this without resorting to mindnumbing conspiracy theories.
I know Tin... I know. There can't possibly be anything even approaching the subtlest hint of impropriety in the NHL. Because, you know, it's totally different than every other sports league.
I don't have a theory. I can think of several. And they aren't outlandish.
Why did Brad Stuart's PIMs go from 67 in 63 games with LA to 26 in 67 with Detroit?
Flawed. You are comparing one season to one season. I am comparing Gill in Pittsburgh to the entirety of the rest of his post-lockout career.
If you were interested in actually doing a relevant study and being intellectually honest as opposed to engaging in your usual obfuscatory shennanigans, you could do something like that with Stuart easily enough. You could look at Stuart's entire post-lockout resume rather than picking out the single worst PIM season of his career and trying to benchmark from that.
But... accuracy isn't your point here, not really.
Flawed. You are comparing one season to one season. I am comparing Gill in Pittsburgh to the entirety of the rest of his post-lockout career.
If you were interested in actually doing a relevant study and being intellectually honest as opposed to engaging in your usual obfuscatory shennanigans, you could do something like that with Stuart easily enough. You could look at Stuart's entire post-lockout resume rather than picking out the single worst PIM season of his career and trying to benchmark from that.
But... accuracy isn't your point here, not really.
Flawed. You are comparing one season to one season. I am comparing Gill in Pittsburgh to the entirety of the rest of his post-lockout career.
If you were interested in actually doing a relevant study and being intellectually honest as opposed to engaging in your usual obfuscatory shennanigans, you could do something like that with Stuart easily enough. You could look at Stuart's entire post-lockout resume rather than picking out the single worst PIM season of his career and trying to benchmark from that.
But... accuracy isn't your point here, not really.
OK. So was there a conspiracy against Brad Stuart and the LA Kings?
The truth is, Hal Gill's PIMs were totally in line with his career numbers.
98 -- 68G 47 PIM -- .69 minutes per game
99 --80 games, 63 PIM -- .78 minutes per game
00 --81 games, 51 PIM -- .64 minutes per game
01 -- 80 games, 71 PIM -- .89 minutes per game
02 - 79 games, 77 PIM -- .97 minutes per game
03 --79 games, 56 PIM -- .73 minutes per game
04- 82 games, 99 PIM -- 1.21 minutes pergame
06 -- 80 games, 124 PIM -- 1.25 minutes per game
07 -- 82 games, 91 PIM -- 1.11 minutes per game
08 -- 81 games, 78 PIM -- .96 minutes per game
09 -- 62 games, 53 PIM -- .85 minutes per game
So, Mr. Gill's PIM totals in Pittsburgh, in the regular season, are completely in line with his career.
Last edited by Captain Bob: 10-23-2009 at 06:01 PM.
