Our beloved Pens are 5-1 in this young season. The new 3rd pairing on defense seems to be holding their own. MAF looks poised to be ready for the best year of his young career. And to top it off we are 3-0 in our Division and 5-0 in our Conference.
But maybe the most surprising thing to me is that we are winning despite our top two lines looking completely lost at times.
So that brings me to my question - Should anything be done to shake up the lines a bit or do you leave well enough alone while you are winning? So far here is how our lines have produced:
Line 1: 6 goals, 6 assists (hidden stat - Sid has 1 assist)
Line 2: 3 goals, 7 assists (hidden stat - Dupuis has 0 points)
Line 3: 8 goals, 4 assists (hidden stat - TK has as many pts as Sid)
Line 4: 0 goals, 3 assists (hidden stat - Adams was a +3 last night)
While the 3rd line is producing big time it should be noted that all 3 of Staal's goals on the season and both of TK's goals last night came with mismatched lines. So that tells me that none of our lines are scoring regularly. Do you consider this a concern at this point or just an abberation in stats due to the small sample size?
For the record, I'd leave the lines alone for now since it's so early in the season and we are winning, but I'm curious to see what you guys (and gals) think!
I'm glad you mentioned Dupuis. He's taking shifts with Malkin and, surprise surprise, he has zero points. He's not even getting many slappers off -- and that's just about the only thing he has going for him offensively.
As far as his speed, he's definitely lost quite a bit. I'm not sure if it's a lack of trying or what, but I really wouldn't miss him if he was sent to the press box for the remainder of the season.
They are just in a bad streak, both line 1 and line 2, nothing to worry about just yet.
We're 5 games into the season and we're already 4-0-1 without our big boys producing
This team has every reasonable excuse to have a slow start this year with going to the Cup Finals two straight years and in some ways we have had a slow start. Our top 2 lines have been mediocre. Our powerplay has looked awful, except for against the less-than-50%-PK of the Leafs.
The beginning of the NHL is always a balls-to-the-walls microcosm of an actual NHL season. It seems like in November over 90% of the NHL slows down. Guys who were on pace for 100 points are now look like a point-per-game pace, guys that were point-per-game players go back down to 40-60 point guys, etc.
Areas where we've really come out flying: Our third line and Marc-André Fleury.
I said at the beginning that our 2nd line would be rendered useless and that it would last more than 2 games. It's now 6 games and counting and I don't see there being an end to it any time soon. I think we all know what needs to be altered to get the 2nd line working. If it IS broke, fix it.
This team has every reasonable excuse to have a slow start this year with going to the Cup Finals two straight years and in some ways we have had a slow start. Our top 2 lines have been mediocre. Our powerplay has looked awful, except for against the less-than-50%-PK of the Leafs.
The beginning of the NHL is always a balls-to-the-walls microcosm of an actual NHL season. It seems like in November over 90% of the NHL slows down. Guys who were on pace for 100 points are now look like a point-per-game pace, guys that were point-per-game players go back down to 40-60 point guys, etc.
Areas where we've really come out flying: Our third line and Marc-André Fleury.
Those are all really good points and are likely a big factor in the scoring of the top 2 lines. But at the same time I'm still worried about Kunitz's prolonged scoring drought dating back to last year and (like everyone else) wish we could get Dupuis back down onto the 4th line asap.
I wonder when/if Bourque will get another game to show what he's got. He didn't do much against the Coyotes, but neither did the rest of the team.
Two of Staal's three goals have come while playing with Malkin and three of Kennedy's goals have come while Adams was centering the third line. So the third line has still been dangerous these last couple of games even without Staal.
As much as I would have been opposed to it at the beginning of the season it might not be a bad idea to keep Malkin with Staal and Adams centering the third line until Talbot comes back. At which point Staal could go back to centering the third line to give Superstar a chance to earn his spot on Malkin's wing back.
Plus this leaves Dupuis on the fourth line where he belongs.
Bylsma says he's a fan of giving guys who are doing well more icetime, and with Godard dressed most of the time but only playing about four minutes, lines are going to be juggled throguh out the game just so that every one else gets playing time.
Edited: I would also add that I think Malkin has had his two best games while Staal was getting a good amount of time on his line.
Last edited by Wickedtune: 10-13-2009 at 12:15 PM.
AgentM, did you subtract the powerplay pts from each line? I went through the games to see who scored on the powerplay and this is what each line would subtract if you didn't include that:
Six games in and already this crap .... people, we are 5-1 without our "big boys" just wrecking shop on everybody.
Although the first two lines may not be clicking, we are winning. You don't mess with winning until you have to.
Instead of worrying about getting scoring up, we need to get back to our defensive play, which in spite of the record, has been average at best. Luckily, McKee blocks everything under the sun and Fleury has been wonderful.
AgentM, did you subtract the powerplay pts from each line? I went through the games to see who scored on the powerplay and this is what each line would subtract if you didn't include that:
I think we are going to see that the 3rd line is really doing well and that would be the main reason I keep Staal centering Cooke & Kennedy.
It would look like this:
Line 1: 4 goals, 4 assists = 8 pts
Line 2: 1 goals, 4 assists = 5 pts
Line 3: 8 goals, 4 assists = 12 pts
Line 4: 0 goals, 3 assists = 3 pts
Excellent point! I can't believe that the third line guys have scored 3 more goals than the top two lines combined at even strength. Though it should be noted that 2 of Staal's goals came when he was out there w/Geno (as Wickedtune mentioned).
Considering your overwhelming evidence to keep the third line together would it be worthwhile to see the top 2 lines jumbled? Obviously most of us would like to see Dupuis moved down but how about shifting Kunitz down to Geno's line?
I'm far from sold on Bourque yet, but I think he should get another shot and Dupuis' grand total of zero points thus far is not helping the top 6. This would also allow Feds to shift over to the RW where he can try to get setup for one timers from Geno.
sure, the third line players have 8 goals, but the third line itself has like 3. Not that that's bad, but using the third line having 8 goals as an argument to keep them together is just silly considering the circumstances of the goals.
Six games in and already this crap .... people, we are 5-1 without our "big boys" just wrecking shop on everybody.
Although the first two lines may not be clicking, we are winning. You don't mess with winning until you have to.
Instead of worrying about getting scoring up, we need to get back to our defensive play, which in spite of the record, has been average at best. Luckily, McKee blocks everything under the sun and Fleury has been wonderful.
Did you even read through the thread or did you assume what this thread was about?? It's a discussion. That is all. Nobody is calling for trades or firing anyone quite yet lol. Discussion on a forum is allowed.
Nobody is complaining about scoring. In fact, AgentM brought up the point that everything is working and we should be happy with that. That's what part of the thread was about.
Excellent point! I can't believe that the third line guys have scored 3 more goals than the top two lines combined at even strength. Though it should be noted that 2 of Staal's goals came when he was out there w/Geno (as Wickedtune mentioned).
Yeah, as someone has pointed out Kennedy and Cooke are getting points playing with Adams while Staal is getting goals playing with Malkin, I feel as though the makes the importance of keeping the 3rd line together somewhat moot.
I actually have no problem keeping Godard and Rupp together in the line up and punting Dupuis for a game or two, while bringing Bourque in to take his place.
I'd like to see Staal moved up to the second line full time as well as Bourque getting a chance to work his way into the lineup.
The thing is, i remember the chemistry that Kunitz showed with Staal last season so why not try;
And at times put bourque on the first line in place of either Billy or Fedo and see how he does. His speed and tenacity could be killer with Sid, especially the way Sid's been playing lately.
Yeah, as someone has pointed out Kennedy and Cooke are getting points playing with Adams while Staal is getting goals playing with Malkin, I feel as though the makes the importance of keeping the 3rd line together somewhat moot.
I actually have no problem keeping Godard and Rupp together in the line up and punting Dupuis for a game or two, while bringing Bourque in to take his place.
I'd like to see Staal moved up to the second line full time as well as Bourque getting a chance to work his way into the lineup.
The thing is, i remember the chemistry that Kunitz showed with Staal last season so why not try;
And at times put bourque on the first line in place of either Billy or Fedo and see how he does. His speed and tenacity could be killer with Sid, especially the way Sid's been playing lately.
Those are pretty bad lines. I'd rather go w/ depth.
I know people are saying that TK/Cooke are getting pts w/o Staal but over the course of the game, they are better w/ Staal centering them. Adams gets 1-2 shifts a game w/ those guys and it just so happened to turn into a goal that was basically created by TK himself. It wouldn't have made a difference if his linemates were #66 and #99 in their prime.
The beginning of the NHL is always a balls-to-the-walls microcosm of an actual NHL season. It seems like in November over 90% of the NHL slows down. Guys who were on pace for 100 points are now look like a point-per-game pace, guys that were point-per-game players go back down to 40-60 point guys, etc.
Fortunately for us, we have a captain who seems to catch fire around November, at least in terms of putting up points.
Scratch Godard unless we need a bruiser, then scratch Dupuis. Rotate Bourque with Kennedy during a game. No matter what Dupuis has yet to get a point there, the rotation of the two of them can not be any worse than what he has done there.
You would have the wild card line of bringing Staal up if it remains productive and you could have a Staal - Malkin - Kennedy/Bourque line which could cause some damage.
Malkin gets a winger that can not do any worse than Dupuis, and I think we all feel he would do better. And Talbot would be just as affective as Kennedy on that 3rd line as a winger in terms of grit and supplying forecheck and back check pressure, the only thing that would dip is that 3rd line would probably see a slight dip in scoring.
I like the idea of switching Kunitz with kennedy. Kunitz has chemistry with Staal, we saw that last year. Kennedy with Sid is a bit of an experiement, but with the way Kennedy is playing who knows? It might be a huge success.
